The hearing has finished
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- February
- 13
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It wasn’t a good day for Roger Clemens or Brian McNamee. Clemens was angry right until the end, interrupting Chairman Henry Waxman’s closing statement. The hearing went nearly five hours.
McNamee was exposed as a serial liar. But the denials issued by Clemens clearly have gaping holes.
What gets accomplished isn’t clear. Unless the Justice Department pursues a case against Clemens or McNamee, there will be no clear answer to this. There were assorted Federal agents at the hearing, which could signal the start of yet another investigation.
The final judges could be the BBWAA, which will have to decide in five years whether Clemens belongs in the Hall of Fame.
Back later with a report from Joe Girardi’s meeting with the media.
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on Wednesday, February 13th, 2008 at 2:44 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Nice job Pete!
So what did this accomplish today?
Gave ESPN some more ratings and this blog some more hits.
Although I’d love to believe Roger is telling the truth, I consider it a bad day for him, even McNAMEE wasn’t that straight
The whole thing was a joke.
Bunch of politicians bloviating about something that is really none of their bees wax.
My belief is that Roger experimented with both steroids and Hgh. He was a great pitcher before, during and after his use of these PED’s. He is still a HOFer, just like Bonds. The whole era is tainted and the late 80’s thru the early 00’s will always be the Steroid Era.
Brian McNamee is pretty sleazy and does not seem to be an honorable person. I do believe he is telling the truth about Roger for the most part.
Bud Selig really blew it with the Mitchell Report. It wasn’t thorough enough and to implicate only the ones that were named by BALCO, McNamee and Radomski unfairly limits the scope of the problem. They should have just reported that the use of PEDs was widespread without naming names and should focus on eliminating their use in the future.
I haven’t watched it yet but this really is a joke. It’s a game called baseball, and a bunch of guys cheated, and a bunch of guys are still going to cheat. So should we waste more money and time about what these guys did yeaes ago? No. We’re on the brink of a new season, and if MLB can keep people from juicing, that’s a huge succes. But the whole Mitchell Report thing helped nothing.
Only Yankee fans watched. And Yankee haters. Oh. That’s a lot of people.
The vegan comment was funny. I also thought it was funny that Bruce Springsteen’s name popped up.
Chris Shays really hit McNamee hard.
Shays : “let’s face it, you are a drug dealer”.
McNamee : “I was just giving the players what they asked for”
Shays : “Yeah, that’s what a drug dealer says”
In listening to the majority of this, I am left with wondering what the heck some of these people are doing holding these political offices.
McNamee is a liar. Well established throughout this. Clemens didn’t come across as the most honest in this either, but he didn’t come across as practiced as McNamee.
I don’t see what the point of this was. I don’t see how there is much of a case that the government could bring up unless conclusive proof is found.
Overall, I would not trust McNamee coming even within 10 feet of my children. He is a drug dealer, regardless of how he would phrase it or color it.
Ultimately, I think Clemens will miss out on the HOF, justly or injustly. Far too many people who get to vote on his induction have already convicted Clemens, and have held that view from the day the report came out.
I also disagree with their praises for this report. It came to this waste of time today because Mitchell named people when it wasn’t necessary to do so. I do not see that a report that was so limited in scope and focus can be deemed fair or even handed. Mitchell abused his power as a former senator and current member in the Red Sox organization.
Baseball is no better for this. Mitchell has a fatter wallet though, McNamee will not be trusted in any future endeavors, Clemens will not get into the HOF. So, one person came out ahead from this.
One reporter on MLB.com just pointed out that, in today’s hearing, all Republicans were pro-Clemens, whereas all Democrats were against Clemens. If this is true, it’s so amazing to see that whether Clemens took drugs even has something to do with political ideology! Amazing!
Meanwhile, George Mitchell was peeking through windows and waiting at a moment’s notice to catch a train in the event his name was called.
I keep going back to the fact that Andy said basically the same things that McNamee said. Why would Andy lie about his friend. It even proves my point even more because he admitted to using them another time. If he got hgh from his father no one would have known that he used it again. Yet he shared that information.
my fault Mel for taking so long
The Nets agree to trade All-Star point guard Jason Kidd and Malik Allen to the Mavericks for Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, Devean George, DeSagana Diop, Maurice Ager, two first-round picks and cash, sources tell Tony Mejia of CBSSports.com.
The party lines thing is ridiculously frustrating. I think maybe I’ll run for congress for one party, get elected and then vote the exact opposite of party lines. Just for the fun of it.
We live blogged the event over on Hot Stove New York.
And 2,861 words later…I’m exhausted!
Thank you for the update Pete. I missed listening to the hearing but you summarized it very well.
“Curious George
February 13th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
One reporter on MLB.com just pointed out that, in today’s hearing, all Republicans were pro-Clemens, whereas all Democrats were against Clemens. If this is true, it’s so amazing to see that whether Clemens took drugs even has something to do with political ideology! Amazing!”
The main reason for this, even though it wasn’t split 100% down party lines, was because Mitchell still holds a lot of power in the Democrat party. They have never condemned one of their own.
This entire thing stinks. Clemens is taking one on the chin for probably more baseball players, actually, professional athletes than we would want to imagine. Baseball turned a blind eye to this entire issue post strike because the long ball was good for the sport. Selig ultimately benefited from that. To think he didn’t know what was going on would be pretty ignorant. It should not have gone down like this.
so if pettitte sucks it up this year, we know he is probably off the juice.
I agree this whole thing is a witch hunt and the Mitchell Report is a joke, but I don’t agree with people who think that even if Clemens is proven to have juiced, he should still belong to the HOF. I know everyone else in the league may have juiced too, or that Clemens was great even before juicing blah blah blah…but one of the HOF’s consideration is “character”, if he’s proven to have flat out lied to the public and to Congress, then no, he can’t go to the Hall.
I’m seriously concerned about Andy, about how the his new confession and the involvement of his dad will affect him when the season starts.
Pete, can you share your prognosis on Andy?
Today’s hearing does not help Pettitte at all, in terms of putting this mess behind him and the Yankees. The second admission and being completely at odds with Clemens’ memory will keep this story going. Andy seems to be a very private person and all these questions will hound him all season. I hope Roger drops his lawsuit and just goes away.
Okay, so, was Clemens cleverly evasive in some of this answers, or was he just incapable of answering a direct question?
I originally posted this a couple threads back, but I’m trying to catch up to SJ to answer his question about whether a perjury indictment still seems likely:
SJ:
Sorry I didn’t respond sooner. I got a little busy there.
A perjury indictment now seems like more trouble than it’s worth. McNamee’s credibility is pretty poor. His answers today become part of the eventual trial record if there is a trial. Pettitte, sorry to say, even has credibility problems now. But Roger’s attack on Pettitte’s testimony is one of faulty recall, not fabrication.
Perjury cases need to be rock crushers, not chin pullers. If the jury has to wonder, then I think you are looking at reasonable doubt and even the overzealous Ivy Leaguers at Main Justice will have to take a pass on this one. (Assuming there is no new evidence of course).
Plus, as I wrote earlier, assuming arguendo that McNamee injected Rocket, how do we even know he shot him with Steroids or HGH without scientific analysis? You can’t take McNamee’s word for it and Radmoski wasn’t there and there are chain of custody issues out the wazoo. If Clemens is to be tried for lying about using steroids, doesn’t the Government have to prove he actually took steroids?
WoW, Brandon!!
The Nets make the Lakers look like petty thieves.
Good news for the Nets fans. A lot of core players from the Finals team 2 years ago.
I think a few things were determined today.
McNamee said he did it and is sleazy and not credible
Clemens said he didn’t do it and is not credible but not sleazy.
Politicians love to grandstand for the camera.
Rusty Hardin needs a new hairpiece. The one he has is AWFUL!
Doreen:
Cleverly evasive. Every competent lawyer warns his client not to volunteer information that is going to hurt him.
Buster Olney: “Heard from lawyers that some committee members think having this conversation play out, in detail, is beneath the dignity of their offices.”
The reason it’s come to this point is because 2 figures of import in Saint George Mitchell’s report appear to be lying.Saint George did a lazy, amateurish job and made the sleezeball McKnamee a “reliable” source to base the report on.
Now we’re at a point where blowhard politicians will cut the head of anyone who dares cast aspertions on St. George. The politicians know that one day they themselves may benefit from being on the dole of a subject they are investigating.
Not only is St George a role model for them because he can get away with being a paid employee of the firm he’s supposed to be “independently” investigating, he’s elevated to icon status because he also was paid $29mil for his “work”. for a politician to be paid on both ends of a deal is nirvana. Spare them the 200 virgins, this deal is pure heaven to them!
May St George rot in hell and may Bud Selig be the keeper of the pitchfork. Their work accomplishes nothing here.
peter-
i think you should add comments like in a game when you keep your comments on one post. we’re all over the charts when you keep making new posts. how is anyone to keep on the discussion when it’s on 5 different posts?
that said, clemens came through this legally in great shape despite waxman’s cheap shot at the end. the espn legal analyst says so himself that he doesn’t see any case against clemens.
waxman shouted down the female member of the committee and he defended an admitted liar in a rape case where he was the main suspect.
so much for waxman’s support of women. i think he’s a jackass myself, but that’s just me.
If you are going to make a stupid comment at least get your facts straight. HE didn’t take roids, he was never accused of taking roids. He took HGH 3 times. leave the man alone.
anti-pettitte = idiot flamer.
Thanks Murph.
Legally, I too think, without more evidence put forth, there is no way a perjury would stick against Clemens.
Pettitte? My advice to him is to speak on this issue when he arrives and that’s it. At that point, you get back to baseball.
Old Goat:
“The main reason for this, even though it wasn’t split 100% down party lines, was because Mitchell still holds a lot of power in the Democrat party. They have never condemned one of their own.”
Precisely. It was Clemens versus Mitchell AND McNamee today, and it was a home game for Mitchell.
Dee: The ‘character’ thing is BS
Unless in-game cheating (Sutton, Perry, Cobb*) isn’t a character issue
*well, more like intent to cause injury; sliding feet first with sharpened spikes
Waxman came out looking pretty poorly in this whole thing as well. There were a number of comments about how this was never part of the scope of what they were looking to accomplish. Waxman did this to give props to Mitchell without having any real questions fired toward Mitchell.
The whole thing about praising the report made me gag. I wished that Clemens could have said that in his view there would have been no need to name players especially on things that wouldn’t stand up in court. While the recommendations made might be valid, the whole value of the report got lost in the players named.
I also still want to know why my tax dollars went to helping Mitchell put money in his pocket.
All I have to say is thank god Jason Kidd is gone.
rodg12 = idiot flamer.
i guarantee if pettitte sucks it up this year he WILL BE BOOED OUT OF YANKEE STADIUM.
SJ44, I agree. I think Pettitte will need to have some time with the reporters, give them some answers then state that is all. Answer once, then ignore the future questions that have to do with this mess.
I think it might actually help Pettitte to make his comments to the press, have them well thought out ahead of time, then close the door on that chapter.
it’s a big deal for NJ/BK Mel
they now have a young core in the PG position
Marcus Williams/Devin Harris
Diop and Stack are either trade bait or buyouts
Sean Williams and Stromile Swift get more bench minutes
the Nets also recieve Dallas 2008 1st rd. pick and 2010
in a seperate deal Antoine Wright is going to Dallas for next yrs. 2nd rd. pick
Wince Harder most likely will be the next dealt star from NJ.
Kiki got this started on Sunday when he was speaking to Cuban pregame
murphydog, I couldn’t agree more. Seems like Mitchell got a little more than home field advantage though.
The Hearing was a circus today. I personally believe that Roger Clemens used both steriods and hgh. But I also believe that anywhere from 60%-70% of MLB players used some combination of illegal substances.
Although I am not a big Roger Clemens fan, he was a dominant
pitcher in MLB BEFORE the allegations of drug use. If, as I believe, 70% of MLB used some form of performance enhancing drugs, than the playing field was levelled 70& of the time.
And with that, Clemens still was dominant in his Era – still deserving of HOF status. i don’t condone his or any others illegal drug use, but until ALL PED users are identified, its wrong to focus so much attention on so few.
Remember, hgh was not illegal until 2003. Obviously he was wrong for doing steriods, they all were. What I find most disturbing is sleazebags like McNamee and Rodomski who are likely responsible for introducing these PEDS to our youth through false promises of a professional career.
And for the most part, the Congress persons in this circus went along party line. Especially Waxman who wripped up the Hearings by stating that mcNamee received some unfair critism and was ” a creditable witness”. former cop, drug dealer, proven liar…..Uh, Right!
McNamee is sleazy and has lied in the past.BUT his story makes more sense then Clemens does.Clemens had excuse after excuse.Clemens may never be indited but in the court of public opinion hes GUILTY.
mel, i’m glad you, an impartial fan to both teams (i think), think the nets got the better end of this deal. i’m unfamiliar with most of those names, 3 of which have expiring contracts. from what i’ve read so far, i don’t think nets or mavs fans seem happy with this. but i also don’t think Thorn is a dummy…
i’m shocked really. i figured if anything were going to happen, that it would have happened already…
Good comeback. Real slick. Now leave, be gone. Or, at least have somewhat of an understanding of what HGH does and it’s effects on people before making asinine comments about someone who used it.
saucy-
Thought I’d throw out my $.02 on the Kidd deal as well. Looks like a good move on the Nets part. You obviously had a player who wanted to get out of there and to get Devin Harris, expiring contracts, and a couple picks in return for that is a good hall. I’m a big fan of Harris and think he’s a great get for the Nets.
SJ:
That doesn’t mean that DOJ won’t try to find some new evidence. Investigators are very proud people, and they do not take it lightly when you thumb your nose at their work and their conclusions – - which they expect you to treat like Holy Writ. Take it to the bank: Hell hath no fury like a Special Agent Scorned.
But my guess is that after this very poor public performance by the star witness, there is also going to be a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking at IRS CID, FBI and the US Attorney’s Offices. Anybody who wrote a memo extolling the virtues of McNamee as a witness is gonna have some ’splaining to do. The Feds look awful in this IMO. They have a witness whose evidence conveniently gets stronger every time he meets with them, who held back evidence from them and who admits to lying – - and getting caught – - numerous times. Unless he was the only way to get a Gambino Crime Family member, McNamee would never have been the basis for a prosecution. It really seems to me that the Feds half-assed the SOP vetting and corroborating of details in McNamee’s story because they never expected to go to court with McNamee.
I always required my investigators to check and re-check even innocent details of an informant’s story because rats are rats and tend to lie a lot just to save themselves. But then again I was never a Fed, just a local hack, so what do I know?
What a colossal waste of time. Everyone will be standing around six or seven years from now as both Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds both get into the HOF and wonder what the heck all the fuss kicked up by Selig, Congress and the mainstream media was all about.
rodg12:
To whom are your comments directed to regarding HGH?
To me the turning point was Debbie admiting to using HGH and having McNamee inject her. Are we supposed to believe that McNamee would risk his $100K a year gig with Roger by injecting his wife without Roger’s approval? No way. He wasn’t allowed to bring beer to the house, but he will inject the guy’s wife. I don’t buy it.
bkight13:
I don’t buy it either. I also don’t buy that the 89 MLB players named in the Mitchell Report are the only ones that have used or are using PedS.
LathamJoe-
I was addressing my comments toward anti-pettitte after he/she referred to me as an idiot flamer in response to me calling him/her an idiot flamer (which he/she is).
if i was from a different country and knew nothing about the political parties, i would have thought that the majority of those with “R”’s next to their name were the ones with integrity and common sense.
Normally, I think Burton and Issa are corrupt fools but they made valid points today and the Democrats looked like jerks.
As someone who has followed and cheered on Waxman’s probes into Halliburton etc. it was very disaappointing to see that he is completely unobjective, petty, power hungry, and plain dishonest.
I agree with randy l that the apology to McNamee, a rapist and drug dealer for some lame a$$ questioning that wasnt tough by any standard was laughable.
Mcnamee-Andy Pettitte,Laura Pettitte,Chuck Knoublach,Rogers Nanny is better to tell the truth then.
Clemens-Jose Canseco,Canseco’s Ex-Wife,and Clemens wife who Clemens left to take Clemens mistakes.
The Republicians(Clemens is a big supporter) treated Clemens like a King and only talked about Mcnamee lieing not Pettitte or Knoublach testimony.WAxman made sure some of the blame was in Clemens direction.Also the Tennesse Democrats were ggod.
Waxman is carrying Mitchell’s water because Mitchell’s firm, DLA Piper, is a big contributor to him, and to Democrats.
Waxman – DLA Piper is one of his biggest 2006 contributors:
http://www.opensecrets.org/pol.....=N00001861
blatant conflict of interest; a tad worse than Clemens chatting with the Nanny!
Clemens is a Republiician and the Republicans didn’t grill Clemens and the nanny thing is worse.It’s like no one saw this thing because many people think Mcnamee got away with something.
Hall of Fame is long gone for Clemens, I don’t believe a bit of Clemens. He is just another Barry Bonds.
I think the the other reason for the party break may have to do one comment Clemens made. He said a former President had called to support him. It was probably George HW Bush from Houston. Maybe the Bushes of TX put a little pressure on their Republican counterparts to go after mcnamee
No love lost between GHWB and Mitchell. Apparently GHWB felt Mitchell was responsible for misleading him back in 1990 on details of the tax negotiations which led to GHWB breaking the “no new taxes” pledge in order to get support for other pressing issues. As Casey said “You can look it up”.