On tap for today in Tampa
-
- February
- 14
Pitchers and catchers report with the first set of physicals having started at 7:30. There will be no official workout today. That comes tomorrow.
Chien-Ming Wang will travel over to St. Petersburg for his arbitration hearing against the Yankees. He will get either $4.6 million or $4 million. Either way, it’s a nice raise for the Wanger. The arbitrator has 24 hours to make a decision.
As pitchers and catchers check in at Legends Field, early arriving position players will work out across the street at the minor-league complex. Hideki Matsui will join that crew today.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, February 14th, 2008 at 8:03 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
I guess it would have been “nice” for the Yankees to give CMW a contract for more than a year, but they can’t really be blamed for being reluctant. Pitchers are fragile. I doubt this particular arbitration will be contentious since the numbers are so close. At least I hope not.
YEAH, the winter countdown is over!
Whatever Wang gets I hope his not getting a contract doesn’t affect his spring. Is Shelley working with Tino only about defense or also batting?
cmw already said he wont have a prob with arbitration and if he has his typical year, the long term contract will come later this season or in the off season.
i cant blame the yanks for wanting to wait longer on wang than cano for a long term deal just because pitchers especially in thier first few years do tend to get injured for long periods. if all goes well this season, plenty of money is coming wang’s way
“Is Shelley working with Tino only about defense or also batting?”
He’s working on hitting with the hitting coach.
About Wanger…I dunno, it seems so odd to be stuck over what is, on the Yankee scale, so little money…I feel like maybe his agents took a hard line on wanting a multi-year deal and refused to work on a one-year contract, being willing to go to arbitration instead.
I can’t really see the Yankees fighting too hard over this, frankly.
The Yankees “control” Wang for the next three years so they have time to give him a long term contract. It may cost them like it did waiting on Posada and Rivera, but I think the Yanks are always cautious with contracts for pitchers. Both sides are so close on this one though I can’t believe they didn’t just split the difference.
Finally pitchers and catchers today!
Yeah a regular Yankee post!
A sign of spring.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/yankees/docs/images/7nu07m3j.jpg
“I can’t really see the Yankees fighting too hard over this, frankly.”
Whozat, I hope you’re right, and they focus on salary precedents that make their case rather than on anything negative about Wang.
Fighting too hard has high risk/low reward for the Yanks.
What a great time of the year. Every team comes in even, every team has a chance to win.
“A sign of spring.”
Those’re some ominous clouds, though.
“The Yankees “control” Wang for the next three years so they have time to give him a long term contract. ”
actually 4 years. 4 seasons anyway.
Yeah! Back to baseball! Little John Fogerty anyone?
giving Wang a long term deal NOW would absolutely foolish on the Yankees’ end.
they control him for 4 seasons.
unless CMW is willing to give the Yankees a HUGE discount, there is simply no incentive for the Yankees to do that.
as far as the $600K difference in their offers, we don’t know if Yankees came back and offered $4.3M and it was Wang’s side who refused that.
whozat
They’ll be okay, their Yankees! Everyone will rally around Andy (at least the important people). Fans at least at home will cheer for Andy, Yes there will be an idiot or two who will boo Andy, but for the most part he will be safe at home. As for on the road it will be tough, but it won’t last all year (it didn’t for Jason).
A couple thoughts.
ON Wang - OK so you don’t want to give a longer term contract…just give the guy the $0.6 million difference in good will. Just give his asking cost. That way you don’t lose the hearing and he gets what he wants. He has had 2 very nice years. This would confirm to him that its not the money, and that it is really length of time.
On AbcessGate - Strap both Mac and Rocket to lie detectors or pump them full of sodium pentothol and ask the dadgum questions. If either won’t allow that I say that is the one lying. I am tired of the games and handshaking and just want an answer so we can get on with the year.
Plus Andy needs to have it behind him and focus.
OK done for the day with my rant on clemens.
Be truthful. Were your first thoughts of your loved one or P&C?
Weird to think of spring when the $@#$#@$ sidewalk by my place has about five inches of unsalted snow.
that aside.
It’s too bad Wang and the Yankees couldn’t come to an agreement, though the numbers are so close I can’t imagine any real long term bad feelings. Then again, I’m not privvy to the situation, so who knows.
Anyway, Happy Baseball.
“OK so you don’t want to give a longer term contract…just give the guy the $0.6 million difference in good will. Just give his asking cost.”
why? is that a good way to do business? to pay players whatever they want?
why does everyone assume the Yankees are the bad guys?
i’d argue that offering $4M is an act of good will. Scott Kazmir has the same amount of service time and just settled for $3.875M. Kazmir is better than Wang.
so, offering $4M was already an act of “good will” by the Yankees.
it’s amazing how emotional people can be about this simply because we “like” CMW.
i like CMW quite a bit. i am a huge fan, actually.
but i can also look at the market and see that $4M is more than fair.
if the Yankees simply “give in” now, it’s not just an extra $600K. for the next 3 years, his salary will keep growing off that $4.6M base instead of a $4M base. adding in luxury tax, this “$600K dispute” could be worth several millions of dollars to the Yankees.
is, say, $5M worth the risk of hurting Wang’s feelings or whatever everyone is worried about?
CMW seems to be OK with going through the arbitration process. He’s accepted the fact that a pitcher is less likely to be signed long term so soon. His time will come.
The Mets are bringing that paper mache apple to their new park.
I told about this whole arbitration hearing before on my blog and I will say again. Let’s just play ball and throw all the distractions away. Distractions is the reason It’s kind of silly that Yankees and his agent fight for that extra 0.6 million.
I understand Yankees’ concern about the healthy of pitchers and decide not to give Wang long term contract. I also understand why Yankees and his agent insist their numbers(One for setting sample for upcoming youngsters;The other is setting new mark for a pitcher who is eligible for arbitration for the first time).
But, I think it’s a lose-lose situation for both sides. They all know this process is the business, but they can’t control how Wang will feel after this arbitration hearing. His agent better hope not to have negative affect on Wang and Yankees has to hope not to send bad messages to Wang and the rest of young pitchers on their farm system.
For me, money can’t buy everything. The bottom line is the one sit on the room to hear how bad he is for few hours is Wang.
As a Taiwanese who studied in America for couple years, I understand how big difference between American culture and Taiwanese culture. I can tell you Wang won’t tell exactly how he feel after arbitration hearing. Americans seems always express how they feel and their opinion, but this is just not Taiwanese culture. Taiwanese care about feeling so much. This is not about the money. Wang probably say he is fine. He understands this is the process after this.
You guys may say why Wang just tell his agent to give it up. He won’t. We respect specialty so much. Wang just let his agent handle everything. I also think Wang may want to hear what Yankees feel about him. The good things for Yankees fans is that Wang will take what Yankees say very serious and will want to improve badly.
You guys may say Wang concern about money. This is why he fight for this. Wrong. Wang makes more money than his salary every off-season. Every year, Wang has more opportunities of making more money than preview years, but he chooses to reduce that chances every year in order to workout more and do more charities stuff. This is why Wang is so special for Taiwanese, not every Taiwanese athlete receive the same respect from Taiwanese.
Don’t worry. I am still Yankees fan. I understand this is how business works, but I don’t think it’s a war that is worthy to fight for just 0.6 million.
HMM…
There is no emotion in that part of my response. I simply think that .6 million is a low cost to clear the guy’s head from any issue with distraction from a salary disappointment. I have 200 employees so I feel comfortable with my decision on that. I try to create an environ where my people focus on their jobs. I have always found giving a bit more is worth it to create loyalty and a sense of value by my company. I also then expect great results. No excuses and no distractions creates greater accountability in my experience. Look if they can run over budget for the stadium by hundreds of millions this is clearly a drop in the bucket. And if this creates a precedent, so what. I’ll gladly give a bit more to every starter that wins 18 games in his first two seasons,,thats the precedent, not for a shmoe that wins 7 or 8.
Jessica, I agree with you.
If this gulf was millions, then of course you don’t do it and you go to hearing but both sides came with reasonable offers. Just do it and get his fanny out there producing…lets remember he needs to be a positive influence and anchor for a staff including lots of young guys. Show them that if they produce there are rewards.
Wang’s contract “problems” brought briefly to mind the notorious Boras. Are any current Yanks represented by Boras? Will the unflinching, nevers-of-steel Hank deal with Boras?
Speaking of Hank, have you seen him, Pete? A general lout is fine if he owns a ballclub and wants to be that way, but a micromanager is dangerous.
And we may want to rethink “Wanger” as a nickname for the staff’s “ace.”
“Look if they can run over budget for the stadium by hundreds of millions this is clearly a drop in the bucket. ”
completely and totally irrelevant.
and i don’t buy the “distraction” argument. if an arbitration hearing will affect Wang’s performance, maybe he’s not the player we thought he was.
Jeter went to arbitration and won. Rivera went to arbitration and lost.
it’s part of the game.
and i’ve already explained how it’s not just $600K, but could represent many millions of dollars to the yankees.
“I have always found giving a bit more is worth it to create loyalty and a sense of value by my company. I also then expect great results. ”
sure. and the Yankees are doing exactly that. they are offering a little more than what Kazmir got.
“And we may want to rethink “Wanger” as a nickname for the staff’s “ace.””
Tell Jeter that. he’s the one who calls him the wanger.
Unrelated, but do you guys think the Sox will try to negotiate a contract with Manny? I believe he has like a $20 million option, think they will pick it up after this season?
“I believe he has like a $20 million option, think they will pick it up after this season?”
depends. if he has another season like last season they won’t. if he has another typical Manny season, they will.
“completely and totally irrelevant.”
your opinion and not a fact. You are way over confident in your opinions…Facts are facts…opinions should be stated as such.
The Yankees have handled their business in this fashion ever since arbitration became a players right.
The player agents make their clients aware of the Yankees stance re: arbitration.
It has no lingering affects on the players.
I remember Jeter and Rivera’s arbitration hearings well. The “expert analysis” was that there would be this “huge” carryover by both guys and the Yankees would “regret” their stance on both players.
How did that turn out?
CMW will be fine and life will go on. Its all part of the process. Like Hmmm stated, the Yankees offer for him is higher than a better pitcher (Kazmir) with similar service time.
That’s why the Yankees are holding firm on the offer.
Wang will win 20 games this year.
Any pictures out there yet? I’m anxious!
“Facts are facts…opinions should be stated as such.”
true, you are correct.
my OPINION is that the cost of the stadium is completely irrelevant to the discussion of the market value of Chien Ming Wang.
what IS relevant are the salaries of other top starting pitchers with similar years of service time. Scott Kazmir is the most relevant data point, as his salary is applicable for the 2008 season.
some more data points:
Jake Peavey (2006) - $2.5M
Erik Bedard (2007) - $3.4M
Joe Blanton (2008) - $3.7M
Brandon Webb (2006) - $2.5M
so you are correct, perhaps i am too confident in my opinions. but i have data to back up my opinion.
i do not see any data or facts in the opposing argument.
i see an argument largely based on assumptions and hypothetical situations, i.e. that Wang will somehow be “upset” or “distracted” by an arbitration hearing.
now, i am not saying there ISN’T good data available to disprove my argument. by no means did i do a conclusive study. i simply looked at a bunch of similar pitchers that i happened to think of off the top of my head.
i am open to being proven wrong. that’s where i am at, i would like to see an answer to this question:
“why should the Yankees pay Chien Ming Wang $4.6M when other elite starting pitchers got significantly less at the same point in their careers?”
Wang going to arbitration is stupid - it’s worth the 600K to not have to argue with your best pitcher with 38 wins the last two yeras at arbitration. Give him 4.6 - we’re not the pirates
Basically, you say it’s all about business and how this system works. You judge this whole situation based on that without measuring any other factors. You are right. Nothing is wrong about that. Of course, Everything you mention about Yankees is right.
I am trying to tell you there is big difference between American culture and Taiwanese culture.(I am saying about the majority of Americans and Taiwanese, not everyone.) For Taiwanese, we care so much about feeling. We always want to take care about all the human factors first because Taiwanese makes decisions based on how we feel. True story from my side, I chose to go to another company with less salary just because I was not happy. A lot of Taiwanese can work at the same company for their entire life because they feel they are needed by their companies.
I said that already in my preview post. Don’t worry about Wang’s performance get effected by this arbitration hearing. If he doesn’t perform well this season, it will be other reasons for that, not for this hearing. Wang will work even harder and want to improve himself more after hearing how bad he is.
“why should the Yankees pay Chien Ming Wang $4.6M when other elite starting pitchers got significantly less at the same point in their careers?”
hmmmm,
Wang better hope you’re not the lawyer representing the Yankees. He will definitely lose.
“Wang going to arbitration is stupid - it’s worth the 600K to not have to argue with your best pitcher with 38 wins the last two yeras at arbitration.”
of course it’s worth it to YOU, it’s not your money.
do you agree with this statement?:
“if Wang gets an extra $600K in 2008, his 2009 salary will be at least $600K higher than it would have been if he does not get the extra $600K”
if you do, then this isn’t about $600K. it’s about several millions of dollars.
“Wang better hope you’re not the lawyer representing the Yankees. He will definitely lose.”
let me add that personally i HOPE Wang wins the hearing.
i am a fan of his, and i want good things for him.
but what i do not agree with is this idea that the Yankees should just give him whatever he wants without questioning it.
if Wang wins the hearing, i’ll be happy for him.
seriously, it’s not that big of a deal. i respect big Joe’s opinion that in his personal experience, overpaying a little generally keeps people more productive in the long run. it’s a reasonale position.
i just disagree with this notion that the Yankees are somehow the “bad guys” for making him what looks like a very generous offer. that’s all.
honestly, i’ve just been waiting to talk about something besides Clemens….
Don’t agree with that statement about the extra 600k. I think the longer term contract based on his numbers not his past salary. And by the way it is my money. I have 4 season tickets. Its all of our money and I think it would be well spent that way.
hmmm
that post was interesting…
I think we may have signals crossed. I don’t think the yanks are bad guys for not paying up. I just think it would be money well spent. I believe that reputations are earned and so is good will. I may be naive but I think clearing his mind and not having winners and losers in this arbitration helps keep the slate clean and lets him focus on being a leader for this young staff.
your right on the clemens thing..thats why I say strap em all to a lie detector or give em sodium pentothal and have at it with the questions. I know I’m dreaming but it would clear things up faster.
Too many apples and arguments here.
Hmmm is right. You pay players based on the marketplace.
That’s how baseball salaries work. Service time, the marketplace, and previous salaries. That’s how salaries are determined in the game.
The stadium issue and ticket prices have nothing to do with player salaries.
Your ticket prices are driven by supply and demand, NOT player payroll. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact.
The Yankees were drawing 10-12,000 people for mid-week games in the 70’s and still had the highest payroll in the league. Ticket prices were very reasonable at this time.
Today, ticket prices are much higher, not because of payroll but, because there are over 10 million people who annually request Yankee Stadium tickets.
When you have only 4.5 million seats to fill for 81 dates, you can see how some folks are going to be left out. You also can see why ticket prices are so high. Simply put, they are high because they can get the price for the tickets.
The money for the stadium comes from a completely different revenue stream than player salaries.
Having spent the early part of my career preparing arbitration cases, I’m quite familar with the process.
The Yankees are holding firm on this for two reasons:
1. Wang is coming off a horrible end of the season and the Yankees don’t want to set the trend of “up-paying” for poor finishes. For a team looking to rebuild with young players, up-paying right now would cost them millions of dollars in the future.
2. In the Yankees view, when compared to other pitchers in the marketplace with similar service time, they feel the Wang offer is more than generous.
Disagree? That’s why there is arbitration.
As far as his culture having an impact on his play, if he is that sensitive, than the Yankees are correct in holding firm. It would be an indication he isn’t tough enough to play in NY.
Fortunately, he isn’t that sensitive and, regardless of the hearing result, he will be just fine.