Pettitte says what he has to say
-
- February
- 18
Andy Pettitte handled himself well in his press conference. He didn’t duck any questions or hide behind his lawyers. He made a mistake and he admitted it. America loves giving second chances.
It’s hard to buy his excuse, however. Using HGH to get back on the mound (as was his hope) is cheating. It’s getting an edge on other players on the DL who are not using. It’s getting an edge on the pitcher who took his place on the roster. Getting back in two weeks is getting an edge as opposed to three weeks.
It also was banned by baseball. Using any sort of controlled substance without permission has been illegal in baseball rules since the 1970s.
But we move on. It was good of Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Girardi and Cashman to be there. Pettitte will practice tomorrow and the story will fade as days go by.
I’ll post the audio in a bit.
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on Monday, February 18th, 2008 at 4:41 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
You say that it is cheating and that is your opinion. There may be others that disagree with you….
Thank God he didn’t say, “it is what it is”.
” It also was banned by baseball. Using any sort of controlled substance without permission has been illegal in baseball rules since the 1970s. “…..using this as the “bar” to measure “cheaters”,,,,I would venture to guess that the number of baseball cheaters since the 70s would be in the thousands….( pot, coke, speed, etc. )
Pete
Get off your high horse and let it go. It is sad that you used the “pitcher who took his place” option. With the money he was being paid, he was gonna pitch and be on the roster no matter who the other guy was. Last time I checked, baseball was played on the field not on the DL. If he got off the DL faster, then so be it. Does a player who has a better doctor get a competitive advantage because he gets healthier faster?
Pettitte answered the questions to the best of his ability and his opinion differs with your about whether he cheated or not. He was asked how he felt and he gave his honest answer. You can argue whether it was cheating or not all you want but at that time he felt that he wasnt cheating. Let history determine who is correct.
He’s getting an edge on other players who are on the DL….umm okay. Isn’t the game played on the field?
I think i speak for all of us when i say, LETS PLAY SOME BALL!
gg steroid talk
If HGH didn’t help him with rehab or any other aspect of the game, I don’t think it should be considered cheating. More research should be done on GH. Maybe its as helpful as a handful of tic tacs.
If Andy Pettitte cheated, he had tons of company. He’s just the only one having a media conference to talk about it.
Yes, technically it was cheating and technically it was banned. Just like going 60 mph in a 55 mph zone is technically against the law and technically banned. IF every ball player who “cheated” as Pete described it was summoned to explain himself in front of a throng of reporters, we’d be holding thousands of PCs, THOUSANDS. Please get off the whole ‘this was really cheating’ kick. I’ve also got to point out the ‘benefits’ of using HGH are very much in debate. I mean, can you call it ‘cheating’ and ‘getting an edge’ for using a banned substance that doesn’t help you at all? I don’t think I could.
“Last time I checked, baseball was played on the field not on the DL. If he got off the DL faster, then so be it.”
So, the ends justify the means?
“Does a player who has a better doctor get a competitive advantage because he gets healthier faster?”
If his doctor uses substances banned by MLB, yes, he does get a competitive advantage. If he goes to Dr. Andrews instead of Doctor Vinny Boombatz, that’s an advantage. But he wouldn’t be going to Dr. Boombatz if Dr. Andrews is available, unless the player is a dope.
I posted this in the previous post, but if anyone missed anything, I live blogged the PC here:
http://mybaseballbias.com/2008/02/18/pettitte-press-conference/
Pinto at Baseball Musings also live blogged the event:
http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/024883.php
Pete was the only one to ask two questions, plus the last one.
Nice job Pete.
I think Pete’s a good example of how to sum up the press conference. If you think he cheated and he’s a liar, then you still think that. If you love the guy, you think he did great. And if you were on the fence either way, this press conference pushed you one way or the other.
His graciousness and class surprised me since I thought this situation would have shaken him (as it would have most people). He seemed composed and sure of himself. I was impressed. I think he did the best he could do under the circumstances and handled it perfectly to ensure it will fade sooner than later.
I’m still a fan. We are all human.
I think when you see this Pavano looks better as a person who is injuried not using HGH.
indeed pete, you’re being typically obnoxious. and your question to andy implying that he had lied under oath about possible additional use of PEDs was unnecessary. were you trying to act like some tough reporter?
Taking HGH the amount of times he did could have no impact on his performance, so his recovery and performance were not enhanced. Was his intent to recover more quickly? Of course. You be the judge if he should be categorized in the same manner as people like Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa.
Also, this notion that HGH was banned back then does not address the point that HGH is now considered a PED, and as a PED it wasn’t expressly forbidden until the more recent testing rules.
The circus being created around Pettitte is only because 1) implications relative to Roger Clemens, and 2) because he’s a Yankee. Just look at Paul Byrd to see a case where these two points aren’t at play.
A study presented to the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee detailing that HGH alone does not help athletes is discussed here:
http://tinyurl.com/yovcov
mclovin:
A. Shut Up already
B. pavano lied to the team about his car wreck, so why don’t you get the facts straight before you open your mouth
I missed the first half where can i watch the begininng?
“Don Vito February 18th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
You say that it is cheating and that is your opinion. There may be others that disagree with you….”
You sound like McNamee now. If it’s illegal and you use it..ta da..cheating.
I think Andy Pettitte cheated. I think he knew it was cheating because he asked Brian McNamee and not a physician and not the Yankees to help him out with HGH. At the very least, he knew it was questionable. That it was for “healing enhancement” and not technically for “performance enhancement” made it palatable to Andy at the time(s).
However, I believe Andy Pettitte’s story, updated as it was during his deposition under oath. I give him credit for telling the truth. As a fellow human being, I think he deserves a modicum of respect, if not forgiveness, for trying to right a wrong, and trying to do the right thing.
So, I don’t think it is a conflict to believe he cheated and to still be in his corner at this point.
Didnt care before, dont care now.
Tell your media brethren to write more about baseball, and less about this garbage.
If it was banned from baseball, why isn’t he facing a suspension? Riddle me THAT.
Drew - I in no way think that doing something illegal equates with cheating. I equate cheating with doing something to influence the outcome of an event in your favor. I’m not sure using HGH means this. I haven’t seen a study done that shows the unfair benefits it gives to the users.
Pete sounds like a card-carrying member of the Self-Righteous League. very silly comments
“It also was banned by baseball. Using any sort of controlled substance without permission has been illegal in baseball rules since the 1970s.”
Pete: Greenies/amphetamines; controlled substance since 1970; your thoughts?
(side note: Anabolic steroids weren’t added to the Controlled Substances Act until 1990, oddly enough)
Steve: So if your son was on the DL and spent 4 weeks using ice and exercises to get back and another player got back in two weeks because he used PEDs, that would be OK?
There is no opinion on cheating. You either cheat or you do not cheat. The law of the land is that you can’t inject a controlled substance without a prescription. Pettitte had a his trainer obtain the drugs from a clubhouse boy in Queens, fly to Florida and inject him. That is cheating.
Whether thousands of players have technically cheated doesn’t get Pettitte off the hook. Neither does the debate over whether HGH works or not. That is beside the point.
I’m not saying he’s a bad guy or should be suspended. I’m saying he broke the rules, he apologized and now we move on.
Mike: If you read the deposition, which I doubt you did, the question of whether Pettitte used more than twice was never really pursued. I felt he should be asked whether he has used again. As of a few days ago, it was a question the Yankees wanted to ask them.
So are the Yankees obnoxious too?
rodg12
If 5 drivers are going 15 mph over the speed limit and only one gets pulled over, isn’t the one driver still guilty of breaking the speed limit? Yes. Does the fact that 4 other drivers got away with speeding change the fact that the one driver that was caught broke the law? No. Is the fact that cops write hundreds of thousands of speeding tickets each year a basis to do away with speed restrictions or traffic court? No. Is it arbitrary that the speed limit might be 55 when in other places it’s 65? Maybe. Is that an excuse for violating the 55 mph speed limit? No.
If the drug is banned, it’s banned. Challenge the ban and win or violate it at your peril. A ban means “don’t do this.” It doesn’t mean that if you only violate it a little, it’s not cheating. How far over the line Andy went doesn’t matter except when it comes to figuring out the punishment, if any.
Pettitte will always be my favorite Yankee pitcher I grew up with him from his WS championship in 96′ till the day he broke my heart and signed with the Astros and the day that little kid got me excited when he came back last season. In plain words Andy is my guy my pitcher and a role model for years. And I was glad to see the other three guys I have admired Mo,Jorge, and DJ to show their support for the best friend and the guy they came up with throughout the years!
What did Paul Lo Duca and Gagne do? How is it all the non-Yankees can just apologize for mistakes, yet Yankees are held to a higher standard. On second thought, don’t think about that question, it will only drive fellow Yankee fans nuts.
When do position players report?
If you think Pavano is more respected or is a better person in the Yankee Clubhouse than Andy Pettitte McLovin, there is no helping you.
You simply don’t understand professional athletes.
Carl Pavano is a pariah in the Yankee Clubhouse. You know why? Because he didn’t do everything possible TO PLAY and for other reasons not worth posting in a blog.
That’s how it works with athletes. You do what it takes to play and you carry yourself a certain way.
When you do, you gain respect from your peers. When you don’t, you don’t.
Not saying its right or wrong but, that’s the mentality of a professional athlete.
At some point, the shots at Pettitte you take go from comical to inane.
We get it. You don’t like Andy Pettitte because he took HGH. Yawn.
But, to say Carl Pavano is more respected than Andy Pettitte. Sorry but, nothing can be further from the truth.
Need evidence? Did you see the manager at the time (Torre), Jeter, Rivera and Posada, at ANY post-signing Carl Pavano news conference?
The answer is, no.
That’s all you need to know when discussing Pettitte’s “respect” in the locker room.
George: If I said Pettitte should be suspended, that would be self-righteous. My point is that there is no gray area in this as Pettitte and other athletes want you to believe. Using this stuff is against he rules, period. It’s against the law, period. Whether it actually works, whether you used it once, it’s illegal.
“not really pursued” ? it either was or wasn’t. and NO the Yankees are not obnoxious, but in my opinion you are.
Peter Abraham - “If I said Pettitte should be suspended, that would be self-righteous. My point is that there is no gray area.”
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That’s just your problem Pete. Cheating in baseball has always been systemic. Babe drank during prohibition. The ballplayers that NEVER did any illegal substances or cheated in any way, are probably in the minority.
But you stated your problem very clearly. In a complicated world filled with many shades of grey, you see only in blank and white.
i thought andy did a great job today and sounded genuinely sincere (much more believable then roger was).
everyone will have their own opinion on andy being a “cheater”, so no point attacking each other over their opinion.
if indeed andy only took HGH for one or two days, its hard to believe it had any meaningful impact on his performance or was being used to get an edge.. you have to believe he took it soley to recover from an injury (if you think thats getting an edge, thats fine but where do you draw the line .. im sure there are plenty of borderline approaches/methods athletes use to recover that blur the line).
if you go by the letter of the law, then yes you can call andy a “cheater”, but its never that black and white and i think andy falls into that grey area… do you consider a starving man who steals a loaf a bread to eat a “thief” or a patient in pain who uses marijuana for medicinal purposes (before it was legalized) a “junkie”… however you feel, taking HGH for the purposes of recovering from a serious injury and getting back to your job falls into a similar grey area (although i would say if you took it just for performance improvement does constitute cheating).
finally, from what i understand and what has been explained here, the use of HGH itself wasnt banned in mlb, its the use without a Prescription that is banned.. right, so if andy or any other athlete had some back of the van doctor write a prescription to get hgh and use it.. would this be even discussed..
its easy to get caught up in the actual letter of the law, think more in terms of overall intent and purpose..
Old Yanks Fan: Doesn’t make it right. You’re missing my point. I’m just saying that athletes can’t have it both ways. You either do or you don’t. Mike Mussina didn’t take PEDs, Andy Pettitte did. There is no fudging that. Saying you had good intentions when you cheated doesn’t give you a free pass.
murph - Like I said, yes technically it was banned and Pettitte can be accused of ‘cheating’. I used that example because I view the illegality of Pettitte using HGH similarly to the illegality of breaking the speed limit. I wasn’t very clear on that, I apologize. Both illegal, yes. Both something horribly wrong and something that causes this big to do like the PC today? No freaking way. Do I look at someone who got caught breaking the speed limit as a disgrace and question his character? Nope. As you alluded to at the end, I don’t think the punishment Pettitte (and Bonds and Clemens for that matter) have had to endure in any way fits the crime they committed.
Peter,
I have no doubt Pettite was honest is the press conference. When he said he wasn’t trying to gain an advantage, he clearly meant throwing harder, throwing more accurately, etc.
He was doing it to heal quicker and get back on the field, PERIOD, as you say.
If you want to say that getting back on the field is in and of itself an advantage, OK, but thats mincing words.
Pettitte was as contrite and honest as anyone any person could be expected to bo. Those who are so quick to judge may want to look in the mirror.
Pete: “I’m just saying that athletes can’t have it both ways.”
And the media can pick and choose what kind of cheating to generate furor about?
Admittedly, we the general public play into this too.
All I want to say is nobody is perfect. We are human being and We all make mistakes. It’s very hard for everyone to admit our mistakes.
I also understand athletes. Think about that. The thing we are talking about is their career. The only thing they know how to do for their whole life. The only thing they do since they are kids.
When you are a dancer and may break up your legs because of car accident,you will take whatever to get your legs back.
am I disappointed? Yes,but the right thing is finding a way to educate young athletes not to do it. Don’t keep looking past.
pete, on the notion on “grey area”
yes, andy does fall into a grey area and its hard to say what to do with him cause of that..
but i understand the notion of not wanting a grey area because its impossible to police going forward… thats the issue.. you cannot go back retroactive and start suspending one person over another.. on a case by case basis,, cause it creates the grey area and gives no credibility to the future..
baseball needs to stand up and say, yes this all occurred in the past but we cant do anything about it now.. its done and done.. going forward we have an iron clad policy with no grey area and thats that ..
bud selig needs to take alot more heat and blame for the inept way he has handled this whole situation.. a competent commish should stand up and put all these questions to rest immediately .. 90% of the press scrutiny and questions would go away if bud handled this right.
Pete, first, it’s arguable whether HGH was considered banned by baseball in 2002/2004. It was not on the banned list, and it seems that whether something is illegal in baseball is a CBA issue. you’re guilty of misleading your readers when you don’t point out that your interpretation is an arguable point, not an absolute fact.
second, and less legalistically, i do think it is self-righteous to make ‘cheating’ a synonym for ‘healing’. and this is my own thought, not what, as you put it, “Pettitte and other athletes want you to believe”. i respect the right to choose one’s form of healing, and i have absolutely no problem with people pursuing health, regardless of the government’s rules.
the law is often backwards - the Dred Scott decision being a classic example. jury nullification protects against this. if i’m on a jury, and this was presented to me, I’d vote Pettitte not guilty on the ‘jury nullification’ basis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
QUESTION FOR EVERYONE. I DON’T KNOW IF ANYONE BROUGHT THIS UP.
DO YOU THINK ANDY HAS NOT TALKED TO ROGER ON THE PHONE BECAUSE HE NO LONGER TRUSTS ROGER AND THINKS HE MIGHT BE TAPING HIM?
Peter, I have an issue with your take on the healing process from the DL. You classify it as cheating which is a bit harsh. What’s the difference between a players who can potentially go on the DL and taking cortisone shots to play and take on a replacement’s spot? if a guy goes on the DL and is issue a medication that can cut down on his rehabilitation is that also cheating? seems to me like we are going on TONS of assumptions in regards to HGH and its effect on baseball players or even baseball players on the DL. there is no scientific study or even unscientific study that tells us the real effects of HGH. Seems to me that we are quick to judge without having proper information.
Pete, did Curt Schilling cheat when he had some freak surgery done to his ankle so he could still pitch in the playoffs? That surgery certainly wasn’t extensively studied before he had it.
Is Tommy John surgery cheating? Pitchers usually throw harder after the surgery than they did before. That’s a completely unnatural advantage.
What Pettitte did was wrong and illegal, definitely, but I don’t see how you can consider attempting to recover from an injury faster cheating. If the stuff helped you build muscles beyond your normal level, sure, but the studies so far seem pretty confident that HGH doesn’t do that.
btw pete,
great job on getting 2 questions today. i knew there was a reason why i like reading your blog … you have such privileged access. hahha
great job though
so now we know that carl pavano, world’s slowest healer, never took HGH.
Ed: You know that answer as well as I do. Getting surgery is not illegal.
Guys, this is very simple, it’s against the laws of this country to obtain these drugs without going through a doctor. For everybody, including baseball players.
In the 1970s and again in 1992 and in letters to the players every year since, it is explained to them that the use of any presciption drug without permission is against the rules.
Again, I’m not saying Pettitte should be suspended or anything else. I’m just saying you either cheat or you do not cheat. He cheated.
Whether it works, whether he had good intentions, whether baseball has handled this badly, whether we in the media are a bunch of jackasses are all tangents that don’t change the central truth: taking these drugs is against the law, against the rules of baseball and is cheating.
If this were Jonathan Pabelbon and not Andy Pettitte, you’d feel the same way?
Anyway, while I love the back and forth here, I need to go write my story. Thanks for reading and commenting.
HGH was not a “controlled substance” in the legal sense of the term. It was a prescription drug, but that’s not the same thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act
How about the fact that he apologized before (December) saying “In 2002 I was injured. I had heard that human growth hormone could promote faster healing for my elbow. I felt an obligation to get back to my team as soon as possible. For this reason, and only this reason, for two days I tried human growth hormone.”
Now it turns out it has become three days. I love Andy Pettitte, but I am sick of hearing about how honest and forthright he has been. If you don’t think using HGH is cheating, I strongly disagree, and I don’t think he deserves a suspension, but let’s not hold him up as a paragon of virtue. He used the stuff in the first place and then didn’t tell the complete truth in his first apology, that means he is asking for a third chance in my book and I don’t know why we would give him that. I hope he does well, just like I hope Giambi does well, but I won’t be able to cheer for him the way I once did.
And regarding your latest post: I don’t see “breaking the rules” as necessarily being the same as “cheating.” Using marijuana isn’t cheating, and HGH was much more vaguely against the rules than marijuana was.
Here are the various definitions for cheat. Per definition 5 (to violate rules or regulations) Andy and anyone who violated the rules would be a cheater.
1. to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance.
2. to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero.
3. to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide.
–verb (used without object)
4. to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets.
5. to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.
6. to take an examination or test in a dishonest way, as by improper access to answers.
7. Informal. to be sexually unfaithful (often fol. by on): Her husband knew she had been cheating all along. He cheated on his wife.
–noun
8. a person who acts dishonestly, deceives, or defrauds: He is a cheat and a liar.
9. a fraud; swindle; deception: The game was a cheat.
10. Law. the fraudulent obtaining of another’s property by a pretense or trick.
11. an impostor: The man who passed as an earl was a cheat.
[Origin: 1325–75; ME chet (n.) (aph. for achet, var. of eschet escheat); cheten to escheat, deriv. of chet (n.)]
Here is my point: pettitte didnt put everything behind him because he didnt answer clear what he belives -did clemens took steroids or not. he danced around this question a whole time. therefore i belive that the reporters will come again and again till they get a clear answer from him. 2nd : i look at andy as a baby and a rat! even he did talk to clemens about hgh why cant he say that its possible that he mis heard clemens . did god tell him to bring down clemens?! gimmi a break !
murphydog - “If 5 drivers are going 15 mph over the speed limit and only one gets pulled over, isn’t the one driver still guilty of breaking the speed limit?”
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Let me ask you this. If 2 million people are smoking pot, and your arrest and jail 10,000 who are African American, can you identlfy the real crime here?
Select enforcement and prosecution of the law can be more dangerous then breaking the law. It is the foundation of a Fascist state.
Notice how Pete calls out Andy without mentioning the hundreds of other cheaters? If he calling for Ford and G.Perry to be removed from the HOF? Willie Mays says just about everyone one the team drank ‘Red Juice’ before the game. Is Pete calling for Willie Mays to be removed from the HOF.
Do you have children? Would you ever have a situation where they all repeatedly broke a rule, but you only punished one? What kind of message would that send? What would that say about you?
Pete:
Please provide a list of all players that have been disciplined for using prescription drugs without “permission” while on the DL.
Have you ever used a story idea or a phrase that you read in another reporter’s article? Then you my friend are cheat.
By the way, if Pettitte is a 6 on the “cheat” scale, Coach Bill is a 17.
C
Pete,
I love your blog and I don’t necessarily disagree with you. But if you are going to criticize Pettitte for doing ANYTHING to take the ball, you have to get off Carl Pavano’s back for doing nothing. There’s no happy medium, really. Either you want to earn your money, or you don’t.
And I think if someone does some research on HGH use, using it on a few occasions isn’t going to help that much, to where Andy Pettitte using it a few times drastically improved his performance or cost some kid or veteran waiver-wire pickup a job. If you think using HGH that infrequently made Andy Pettitte what he was, then you’re probably not as informed as you should be on HGH. (Which is almost impossible to believe.)
And thanks for bringing up Belichick, Chuck. There’s a real cheater, and Pete has been giving him a free pass.
Baseball players have been cheating with drugs since “greenies” became popular in the 70’s. Andy Pettitte didn’t do amphetimines like our father’s Yankees ( and every other teams’ players) did. No one wants their kids to do speed,but no player who took it ever came out and said what Andy Pettitte did today. He didn’t cheat any nore or any less than the previous 3 generations did. It doesn’t make it right,but baseball mirrors socierty in general when it comes to drug use.
Pete’s right. There is no gray area. You either did or you didn’t.
Take the Patriots for example. They were breaking the rules and illegally taping the other teams sideline ever since Belichick has coached there. Did it give them an edge over the other teams in those oh so close Super Bowl wins. Well, it sure didn’t hurt.
What I’m saying here Pete, is you’ve run your points about Pettitte into the ground here, a number of times. Everybody knows the players that have been named are a small fraction of the ones that were using something. To pile on them is horses–t. So what goes around comes around, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, etc.
Btw, I still break into a big smile everytime I think of the Patriots blowing their chance at unprecedented sports history. Sweeeeeet…
And for the record… I DID inhale in college. How ’bout if we start a thread and folks can come clean. I know I feel better now that I admitted it lol
Pete,
Taking a banned substance doesn’t constitute cheating. Smoking crack or marajuana does NOT give you a competitive advantage. Therefore you’re not cheating. You’re just doing something against the rules.
If you violate the morality clause, does that make you a cheater? It’s illegal to kill dogs, so is Michael Vick a cheater?
People (and you big P) need to not cast a black-n-white brush on the issue. Taking a banned substance is ILLEGAL nd not necessarily cheating.
“There is no gray area.”
WRONG! There is a ton of gray area here — particularly with respect to HGH — and even with respect to taping other teams signals, walk throughs, etc.
Of the below list, who hurt the game of baseball the most? Who hurt it the 2nd most?
1) Bud Selig
2) Don Fehr
3) Andy Pettitte
4) George Mitchell
Chuck,
Actually, there’s a gray area on whether or not you can make a legitimate argument saying there’s a gray area.
Hey Chuck, since your an expert on “gray areas”, is there a gray area on whether or not you cheated on your wife? Inquiring minds want to know.
OYF: I would have to say that Mitchell has hurt it the most by taking $20 million and doing such a shoddy half-assed job. Next on the list would be ol Bud for hiring the dude and accepting the crappy work.
I am not an expert — but to say there is not a gray area is foolish.
Cheating on your wife? Is thinking about another woman cheating? Is kissing another woman cheating? Is wanting to f**k another woman cheating? Is f**king another woman that you really don’t love cheating?
Lots of gray area.
Glad to see you are a National Inquire fan — at least we know what level you want to discuss this on.
Pete…what you need to do…since you are SO sure that you are right…is go right up to Andy P. and say….” We all know that you are a cheater,,,,you cheated,,so you are a cheater….how does a cheater like you live with yourself and allow yourself to play ball next to all these other players, who mostly are NOT cheaters,,,being that YOU are REALLY a Cheater ???…..huh, Cheater ?…I can’t hear you, Cheater ??? “….why don’t you try that one on for size, then send us the address of the hospital you are at, so that we can send you blended food to drink from your straw ????
I don’t find it hard to buy his excuse at all
“There is no opinion on cheating. You either cheat or you do not cheat. The law of the land is that you can’t inject a controlled substance without a prescription. Pettitte had a his trainer obtain the drugs from a clubhouse boy in Queens, fly to Florida and inject him. That is cheating.”
So, Pete, let’s test your logic:
It is a Sunday morning in May and Phil Franchise is starting at 1PM. Phil oversleeps. Phil jumps into his car and races to the stadium at 65 miles per hour. Phil gets there in time to pitch.
As all city residents know, the “law of the land” (i.e., the speed limit in New York city) prohibits traveling above 50 mph. Phil violated that law in order to get to the stadium in time to pitch. In fact, Phil improperly gave himself an advantage over all of the pitchers in baseball who do not oversleep and who drive within the speed limit. Accordingly, by Pete Abraham’s logic, Phil is a cheater.
Chuck,
Something tells me you’ve been using this “gray area” argument to get out of some sticky situations in your past.
As for your questions:
1. Is thinking about another woman cheating? NO.
2. Is kissing another woman cheating? A friendly peck on the cheek? No. A tongue wrestling liplock? YES.
3. Is wanting to f**k another woman cheating? NO.
4. Is f**king another woman that you really don’t love cheating? Yes Chuck, I’m afraid it is.
So there you have it. Yes or no. No gray area.
Btw, it’s called the National Inquirer. You better spell your content correctly before you insinuate a lower level of intelligence towards someone else. No, I’m not a fan, but I must admit I do take a look when I’m standing at the checkout line at the grocery store.
I would have to argue that kissing of any kind is not cheating. And if you classify it as such, then there are clearly degrees of cheating. As a married man I can tell you that if I had made-out with another woman (or if my wife did the same with another man) it would be a very disturbing turn of events but one from which we’d likely recover. F**cking on the other hand, hard to come back from something like that. While I think we can clearly make distinctions between right and wrong in these types of situations, real life is rarely a case of black and white folks.
If Andy cheated to get off the DL more quickly, he cheated to aid the New York Yankees. That does not make it right, but it is a mitigating circumstance which a rational mind should consider.
As for perjuring Congress… I want those jokers to call Manny and Papi and ask them. If they deny, investigate them for perjury.
Sports reporters, I’m guessing, sometimes convince themselves that sports reporting is not “serious reporting.” Oh, it is. It takes a skill that other reporters lack. Baseball is an encompassing form of entertainment which can reach beyond diversion. It can bring people onto a weblog over Christmastide to look for news on a possible Santana trade or A-Rod signing, or whatever. This is serious stuff, and I wish sports reporters would realize this and not feel that they need move “beyond” it.
Eh, it is a very gray area Pete.
What if he didn’t use HGH, let’s instead imagine he did something else. How about instead of HGH he had Brian inject him with Cortisone without a prescription… or some other ‘medical’ drug, without a prescription. It would still be potentially ‘illegal’ and maybe against the rules - but would we be as up in arms about all of this?
I don’t think so. This is a big deal because HGH has performance enhancing implications. However, do you really think Andy did it for those reasons, do you think he even knew about that, or do you think that his limited DL use did enhance his performance?
Because if you believe him, and I do… he wasn’t taking HGH to gain a competitive advantage, in fact, he didn’t even know it would potentially give him such an advantage (nor was it even clear back then that it would) - he was doing it to try to heal quicker. Hard for me to be to upset over that.
He was not cycling steroids to hit 60+ hrs. He was taking a drug without a prescription to help an injury.
Seeing Andy Pettitte’s longtime teammates be there at his press conference speaks volumes.
He may not be the most eloquent of speakers but he fessed up for his wrongdoings and hid from nothing non-legal.
He didn’t take the high road or disappear unlike what some have done.
He realizes that for the better part of this year he’ll be shadowed and questioned in particular from road venues but he has the ability to outfocus those that try.
Let the sillies of Boston and elsewhere go at it and make fools of themselves.
Ask the question what Bonds would say in a similar press conference ? Blame the media and possibly use the race card is a likely scenario.
What about those at the first Washington hearings ? All but Schilling are gone and faded into oblivion. Any McGwire or Palmiero sightings lately ?
Schilling can find ways to circumvent any question through his superficial blog.
OldYanksFan:
Arresting or targeting African Americans for breaking the law because they are African Americans, while allowing others to go free, is a racist pattern of enforcement. They may well be guilty, but a greater evil than the crime they committed is going on. In that case, the goal of a fair society is to punish the greater crime and stop the behavior that taints the prosecution.
Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte are not members of any minority or suspect classification deserving of strict scrutiny and special protection when it comes to government action. Arguably the Mitchell Report is not Government Action. (I’m not so sure).
My point with the speeding ticket example was this: the fact that others who did the same crime may evade apprehension does not diminish the guilt of the one who was caught speeding in any way.
OldYanksFan, I think you’re my new favorite poster.
OMFG. Hello, Pete ? We get it. You are the one true source for all that is right and wrong. We shall not question you. It was wrong, and he should never use Viagra that he bought over the net again.
“If you read the deposition, which I doubt you did, the question of whether Pettitte used more than twice was never really pursued. I felt he should be asked whether he has used again. As of a few days ago, it was a question the Yankees wanted to ask them.
So are the Yankees obnoxious too?”
So should I NOT be shocked that Pete sees no difference between himself, a reporter, and the Yankees, Andy’s employer ??? I mean give me a break already.
PETE SAID: “Mike Mussina didn’t take PEDs, Andy Pettitte did.”
Hate to break it to you, but the simple fact is you don’t know that. You can ASSUME that, but you don’t know it. Mussina SAYS he didn’t. That’s the extent of it.
Therein lies the state of MLB today. There are really only 3 categories - those that have admitted they did, those that are suspected or implicated by one of a few slimeballs, but who we really don’t know for sure, and those that aren’t implicated, but ALSO we don’t really know for sure.
Yeah, nothing like black and white for me, thanks.
Tree Rollins etc. I dont give a name to respond to,
You are wrong. - and there is no gray there. There are many women that would find some of those things that you say are not cheating to be cheating and there are others that would not. Therefore it is gray. Anyway, it is your silly analogy.
I don’t read the mag and there is no editing or spell checking on here — I can forgive misspellings. I don’t forgive arrogance laced with stupidity. In my experience, people who believe there is always a black and a white and never a gray are fooling themselves or are presently serving as President of the United States.
Not sure if someone said this already, so sorry if I’m being redundant. But in response to this part of your post:
“It also was banned by baseball. Using any sort of controlled substance without permission has been illegal in baseball rules since the 1970s.”
HGH is not a controlled substance according to federal law (some state laws vary on this). Legally speaking, what he did was the equivalent of taking, say, a puff from an asthma inhaler that he did not have a prescription for. It’s not on the same level at all as taking anabolic steroids which is a controlled substance.
HGH is NOT a controlled substance, but it does require a prescription from a doctor. Anabolic steroids ARE controlled substances.
I understand your position that either you took PEDs and cheated or you didn’t and you didn’t cheat, but I disagree that baseball hasn’t had a grey area with respect to cheating in it’s history. I mean, how many stories have you heard from a color commentator in a joking tone about a pitcher that used to throw spit balls. I guess you would say that they are just as bad as Andy?
I think the problem that people have with you labeling Andy a cheater is the broad brush stroke that covers him with players that clearly used PEDs on a regular basis to improve their performance. From what I understand, his statements have been backed up by the Mitchell Report (for whatever that is worth) and he the reason he has given for his use, if nothing else, appeals to the average baseball fan. He said that he did it because he wanted to be on the field helping his teammates win and earning the substantial amount of money he was being paid. On top of that he took a total of 3 injections. Labeling him a cheater lumps him in with players that have gone far beyong what Andy has done.
Another question I have is, do you know if doctors have prescribed HGH to speed up the healing of the type of injuries he had?
I guess TO is a cheater because he uses an oxygen bed to heal more quickly. It is absurd to claim that there is no gray area.