Wrapping up the day in Tampa
-
- February
- 18
I’m done writing and through for the night. I’ll be honest with you, writing about this stuff is not why I wanted to do this for a living. It’s part of the job, but I hate it.
That said, I did pick up a little something on my voice recorder I wanted to share.
As Andy Pettitte sat down, he noticed Derek Jeter, Mariano River and Jorge Posada sitting down off to the side.
“Hey, my boys are hanging out over there,” he said to Joe Girardi. “All right.”
Thanks for reading and commenting everybody.
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on Monday, February 18th, 2008 at 7:41 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
So he did not know ahead of time that his teammates would be there. It must have been quite, well, a shot in the arm to him. Ouch.
Pete, I don’t blame you for not particularly liking this part of the job. I’m sure it’s not what you mean by a good story.
Nice job Pete……Sleep Well.
Peter - I agree with you 100%. I believe the more fans / readers want to hear more about the current Yankees and how they will perform on the field than anything to do with steroids. I hope the media will stop asking Andy, Girardi, and Cashman anymore questions regarding this issue b/c nothing more can be said. So, hopefully, you can start blogging about Joba’s changeup, the future of the Yankees position players (Cano, Tabata, Jackson, etc), the young pitchers who can emerge for this year’s bullpen (Marquez, Horne, etc) and the new coaching staff.
Thanks
Good job Pete and congrats on being selected to ask 2 QUESTIONS…lol
I respect Andy for putting himself up there and taking questions. It’s like he’s taking the load on his shoulders for all the juicers in baseball. Which is funny, considering the minimal amount of HGH he took. He’s like the kid who smokes pot once and gets arrested, while all the other stoners go free.
Let’s hope this stops the lazy journalism that construes Posada’s support of Clemens as being a rip at Pettitte.
ironically, pete…its for blogs just like this one that set you apart from the mass. The tape bit you caught (and reported here) was priceless. Thanks.
Well, hopefully after tomorrow, when the usual media moralists in the city (Lupica, King, Sherman, Klapisch and Madden) take their swings at Pettitte, we can get back to baseball.
I have to tell you, guys like Pete, Feinsand, Kepner and Sweeney Murti actually want to write and report about baseball. They are worth reading and tuning into to.
The rest of the clan? So far up on their respective soapboxes, they no longer understand their readers don’t want to read about this stuff. They want to read about baseball.
What’s even funnier to me that, in some of their younger days, some of that “moral” crew enjoyed an occasional foray into, let’s say some not entirely legal recreational activities.
Now, they like to stand judge and jury on ballplayers. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Pete, thanks for covering it and being tasteful about it as well.
And that is a great bit on the recorder.
1. It looks like Andy really appreciated what appeared to be an unexpected show of support from the team leaders, guys who have been there with him and have the rings to show it. I think Andy will do all right this year.
2. Pete, whether you like this part of the job or not is difficult for me to see, because I think you still do a professional job in reporting it, and a top-notch job in keeping the blog readership informed. It’s why many of us check in many times throughout the day.
Rob,
I really enjoyed ESPN’s spin on that.
Posada saying he believes Roger is a “slap at Pettitte” and could lead to clubhouse insurrection.
Talk about throwing #@#$ against the wall and hoping it sticks! lol
I also loved the follow up report. Bob Holtzman from Tampa, talking about how “well” Andy did today.
It was like Josh Elliot (the Sportscenter anchor) wanted to hear none of Holzman’s report. He was too giddy with his own “theory” of how the Yankees would splinter over this.
Spoken like a true Red Sox fan, which Elliot is.
Its amazing. Even in reporting a story, some of these guys’ biases come through.
Its why I no longer subscribe to the theory George Mitchell didn’t have biases.
Just because he negotiated pease in Northern Ireland doesn’t mean he doesn’t have bias issues with his report.
I’ve seen too many people the last few years, intelligent people, lose their perspective over this Yankee-Red Sox crap. It wouldn’t shock me if it happened to Mitchell.
Pettitte is handling himself like a professional. Roger is not. Plain and simple.
Here’s one thing someone should ask Mike Lupica about his quest for truth and justice.
Mike Barnicle, the Boston Globe and MSNBC commentator has been suspended twice in his career for plagurism.
He lifted stories from other people and passed them off as his own.
I may be mistaken but, I believe one of the stories was submitted for a Pulitzer Prize. It was pulled when the Globe editors found out it was lifted.
Either way, he did it twice (that we know of) and was caught red handed.
When confronted by his editors, he lied about it.
That’s about the worst thing you can do as a journalist. Especially, an “award winning” journalist such as Barnicle.
One of his staunchist supporters, a guy who fought for him to get his jobs back, was Mike Lupica.
Now, tell me, why is it ok for a fraud like Barnicle to be defended but, baseball players must be treated like criminals by the Lupica’s of the world?
The reality is, these guys have their pets. They protect their pets. If you are not one of their pets, you don’t get protected.
Its why, at least these days, everything I read from the media moralists in the city I take with a grain of salt.
They are bigger frauds than the one’s in sports they want to out each day.
“He was too giddy with his own “theory” of how the Yankees would splinter over this.”
Sj I believe the contrary would happen. I think it will pull the team together. It will be them against everyone else. I believe Andy commented that it seemed like it was only Roger and Andy in the report. This will bring the team together, since both Andy and Roger are their boys.
Also I believe Andy said he wondered why the three of them were still in the clubhouse.
Thanks for the way you handled this today Pete.
Dear Pete,
I want to congratulate you for your work and what you have created with this blog. I have looked at a lot of blogs and yours has the best participation that I have seen and the best bunch of guys. I know this has not been easy for you nor for any of us that love the game.
SJ: Could it be maybe that Lupica doesn’t have a stellar record himself? I honestly don’t know; I haven’t read anything he’s written since 1999.
Thanks for that JoeG quote, Pete. I can imagine what it must have felt like for him to be able to say such a thing.
I want to think you for what you’re doing. This is my first ST on a blog run by a reporter who is actually in Yankees camp, so I’m kind of like a kid in a candy store. And because of who are you, the way you write, and what you put into this, you just might be the only Yankees beat reporter who matters. (That’s paraphrasing a line used to describe The Clash in the late ’70s.)
I cannot stand Lupica and his oPiNiOnS.
I can’t take reading about this issue anymore either. It’s really driving me crazy and it’s a lot of work.
SJ:
“What’s even funnier to me that, in some of their younger days, some of that “moral” crew enjoyed an occasional foray into, let’s say some not entirely legal recreational activities.”
I have heard stories regarding a certain NY sports columnist, back when the white powder was all the rage in this fair city. (Certain members of the local law enforcement community have long memories). Can I say the source of this information is reliable? No, I wasn’t there, so I won’t repeat any details. But as George Mitchell said about someone else, “Why would he lie?”
I think we as fans are about as tired of hearing about this sad stuff as you are about writing on it Pete.
Lupica, phony moralism and purple prose. sanctimony aside - this guy can’t write and is positively hated by his peers.
Murph, that has been my point all along. The writers, the politicians all have some skeletons in their closets and for them to be pointing their fingers is so hypocritical. I can only imagine the amount of substance abuse including alcohol you would find in Congress. It is somewhat frightening to contemplate. Our own President has probably “cheated” as well. It is so ludicrous for these guys to be trying to “clean up” sports when they cannot even clean up themselves.
Oh good, it’s nice to see the three rings clique is alive and well to fracture the clubhouse.
bodhisattva
He also never empties his email box, it is always full. He doesn’t want to get the hate mail.
Alright, Monday’s over, Andy’s home, let’s shake all this crap off and play ball. God invented Spring for baseball. Okay, maybe not, but they sure do go good together.
Just for good measure:
http://www.enough-lupica.com/index.htm
Bronx Born:
I used to think, “Thank God for the sports pages” because they took me away from politics and all the other local garbage that fouls my air. Not anymore.
What can I say? It’s a tough planet, my friend. Nobody gets out alive.
oh that is so cool murphydog
“Oh good, it’s nice to see the three rings clique is alive and well to fracture the clubhouse.”
???????????
I love that site Murphy!!
Murphy I think they were joking that some in the media think that this will hurt the Yankees in the clubhouse. When in fact this will bring them together because the “big three” in the clubhouse have already established they are behind Andy 100%.
Murphydog,
I had the same feeling about sports. That it was between the lines that counted that you were playing a game and it had rules, etc. I loved sports until sports reporting became Enquirer like. Way back I wanted to be a sportswriter. I think reporters have sunk below used car sales people these days. And you are a right it is a tough planet and “only the tigers survive and even they have a hard time.”
jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!!
There are plenty of writers, broadcasters (Joe Buck, Joe Morgan, just to name two) and players on other teams who are drooling at the thought of the Yankees collapsing under the weight of this. Hopefully all of that Yankee hate is just another motivator.
Lupica is a schmuck.
Back when Lupica wrote his book about the McGwire, Sosa race to surpass Roger Maris’ single season home run record…he was interviewed on the Don Imus radio show.
Lupica wrote in his book that every evening that memorable baseball summer…before he went to bed…he would leave a note on the refrigerator so that 1st thing every morning his young son could get the scoop on the home run race before he reached in the fridge for OJ and Milk for his cereal.
Anyway during the interview the I-Man asked Lupica to put his son on the phone so he could ask him a few things about McGwire or Sosa…
Lupica can’t resist the opportunity to put his son on a nationally syndicated…highly rated…influential morning radio program…
So he puts his son on the phone and 1st thing Imus asks the boy…something along the lines of…
“Did your Dad really leave you a note on the refrigerator every night so that every morning you would know if McGwire or Sosa hit a homer the night before…
Then Little Lupica says something like…”Hey Dad what’s Mr. Imus talking about?”
Imus, McCourt and the rest of the guys immediately burst out in laughter…
Lupica…taking literary license with the facts…Anything to sell a book.
hey pete.. the mets lohud blog only gets about 10 comments at most per post.. so i guess that means your doing a pretty good job!
Bronx Born:
“I think reporters have sunk below used car sales people these days.”
Most of them are just doing their jobs, but the job has changed since my father’s day when the reporters traveled with the team and seldom wrote anything derogatory.
Humorously enough, the actual used car salesman in the steroid scenario is Selig.
Ken Rosenthal’s one of the few without an apparent agenda.
Good article on the Andy Method vs. the Roger Method.
The problem with Roger is that he probably used steroids and Andy probably didn’t.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7814154/Clemens-could-learn-from-Pettitte’s-approach
“… have some skeletons in their closet”
If we are talking drugs, his might be the understatement of the decade”
I’m 54. As a teenager, between my peer group, college and my travels cross country, I did meet SOME people who did NOT smoke pot. But the vast majority of us did.
If you want to include ‘prescription drugs without a prescription’, how many people in this country have done some kind of drugs. 20%? 30? 50%? Any guesses?
And of course we can’t count the evilest drug, alcohol, because it’s legal.
I wounder how many potheads kept dope in the drawer at work.
I wounder how many congressmen keep a bottle in their drawer at work.
During MonicaGate, all the adulterers were pointing a finger at Clinton, the caught adulterer.
Now all the dopers and ex-dopers are pointing a finger at Pettitte, the caught ‘doper’.
What a laugh. If hypocracy was a crime, there would be no one walking the streets.
The Yankees are Goliath and other media markets are David and for that very reason the tabloids will take much out of context in the next day or so. Andy said in his press conference that he sought no edge in what he did but certain journalists will certainly want that edge to sell newspapers.
The support Pettitte has received from his teammates does not sum it up. He is supported by his fans as well with the understanding that he made a mistake, genuinely regrets his mistake, and above all, has admitted his mistake. That goes a long way, for me at least.
This guy is my boy, I have adored him from his first start and will look up to him through his final out. 46 is number one.
You are right Murph, forgot about Selig’s career. I suppose in a way I yearn for those days but refuse to go ludite and will supersede the current call for too much information by just enjoying the game.
It is good to be in touch with you. Thanks …
I’m just going to put it out there in case I ever get interviewed on Centerstage by Micahel Kay. If I were ever stuck in a foxhole I would want SJ44 and OldYanksFan in there with me. Those two are so smart, convincing and excellent in their writing, that you can never miss a post. I for one can’t wait to put this behind us so we can talke (I mena write) baseball.
River Ave.,
You know Pete’s bigtime when you have your fans and your detractors. He’s a polarizing figure. People rip him on Springsteen, the Patriots, being a closet Red Sox fan, and making jokes about the likes of Josh Phelps and Carl Pavano.
(I do think that Pete went a little far in calling Pavano a “pariah” in one article. Was that in the print edition, too?)
murphydog, that link was priceless!
If Yankee envy were a terminal disease, Lupica’s funeral would be tomorrow.
Only a fool knows everything. A wise man knows how little he knows.
murphydog
I hope so, things like this could bring them all together. And judging by the fact that Jorge, Mo, and Jeet were all there it will.
OldYanksFan,
Very well said. By the way, we’re the same age so how ’bout changing the nick to “ExperiencedYanksFan” lol
What happended to A-Rod? Is he still on the team? When is the last time A-Rod was even mentioned on this blog?
I think a bunker mentality can only help Pettitte , Jeter, Mo & Jorge. An “us against them” attitude by the Yankees could be very bad news for the rest of the American League.
I’m excited to hear Phil Hughes say his leg feels great and he’ll be throwing 93-95mph this year. I think Andy is going to have that tunnel vision look every time he takes the mound. We’d sign up right now for a 3rd straight 19 game season out of CMW. Let’s play ball!!!
“…Andy Method vs. the Roger Method. The problem with Roger is that he probably used steroids and Andy probably didn’t.”
Fair comment.
But, aren’t Andy and Roger reacting to this the way they have reacted to everything else in their lives?
Andy is introspective, if not very articulate, he reflects, prays and follows Scripture, at least to hear him tell it. He’s been that way for a long time so it’s not like he just “got religion” to convince everybody to like him again. Yet he clearly did something he wasn’t supposed to do, tried to spin it his way, saying in his heart he knew it was the right thing and he was just trying to earn his salary. But he owned up (eventually) and said he was wrong and stupid and desperate and that he didn’t want anybody to do what he did. In short he made a mistake (Make that several mistakes, but that’s not my point).
Roger on the other hand is a bloody competitor, a “fight ’till the last dog is dead” kind of guy. Didn’t we love that about him? Wherever he’s pitched, he’s been loved for throwing the “high hard one” and for giving it his all. So now he’s still in character, throwing the high hard one, using a game plan he thinks will work, fighting ’till the last dog is dead. And he is getting buried. You win some you lose some, but you gotta play to your strength.
Would it have been more effective for him to have knelt before Mitchell and the Baseball Magnates, to take one for the whole sport? To make a grand mal, mea culpa? Sure. Would it have been Roger? No.
Go to Phil’s site ..he’s running another terrific contest …
Go Yankees 2008 !!!
Drive 4-5…. Just be thankful I dont call myself ‘OldAndBaldYanksFan’.
Jeff NJ… That’s very nice of you to say. And no offense, but when Kaye asks who’s in my Foxhole, I gotta go with Pamela Anderson and a couple of USO girls.
(I’m might be old, but I’m not dead).
“I think a bunker mentality can only help Pettitte , Jeter, Mo & Jorge. An “us against them” attitude by the Yankees could be very bad news for the rest of the American League.”
As long as the “us” includes the other 21 guys on the final roster it could be uniting.
Murphydog -
I am on page 142 of Clemens’ deposition. It is a dizzying proposition to get through the thing, let me tell you. The gentleman is quite adamant, and if he is lying, it is certainly in spectacular fashion. However, he is insisting that McNamee has an agenda and was reticent about suggesting what that agenda might be. Well, at some point he does divulge some information about he and Debbie establishing the “Roger Clemens Institute” which is a project he wants to be a part of after his playing days, but he is setting it up now. McNamee apparently assumed he’d be a part of it, and that was never something Clemens even thought of. He talks about a few other things as well. But all along, I’ve just felt that McNamee is quite annoyed, to say the least, because he expected his association with Roger to net him fame and fortune of his own.
Now, I’m still not 100% convinced Roger didn’t take PEDs at all, but it is very interesting to me what did NOT get brought up at the hearing.
Andy’s candor and demeanor at today’s presser made Clemens look even more duplicitous than he already has.
For example, McNamee implicated both. Yet Andy has remained his friend while Roger has thrown him under the buss and then tried to drive over him.
After today, its even more clear that Roger ended up driving over himself.
Pamela Anderson?
Why would a good looking woman with a great body undergo surgical procedures to mess with it?
The chick has issues.
Good one Quantum, what we all wouldn’t give for those “A Rod caught sunning in Central Park” or “A Rod says he’s not buddy buddy with Jeter” or “A Rod may be great in the regular season but he can’t hit in the postseason articles.” It’s like the media has forgotten he’s on the team. Well at least until he reports to camp then the next chapter of the 2008 season begins.
I hope those moralists who can’t bring themselves to believe Pettitte’s dilemma never have to face anything like it in their own lives.Pettitte did not use HGH to gain a competitive advantage. He took it in an attempt to avoid surgery.
I’ve had 2 people very close to me they were stricken with cancer. The surgical and standord treatment options given to them were not palatable. Both of them decided to take substances that were banned by the FDA. One smoked pot to relieve nausea and increase appettite and the other smuggled in a drug from Canada every month. Both had positive results from using the banned substances.
Granted, cancer is more serious than an injury that simply affects your livlihood. But the point is,the moralists could say my mom and friend “cheated”. After all, their peer group didnt use the banned substances.
Phil Hughes has a new contest on his blog, people aren’t even thinking when they are throwing names out there.
They are putting names of players that were still in college and not even drafted or on other teams. I am not posting that info there to help them out though. If I’m wrong I want a second crack at it. 
Ah, and Hank speaks out about baseball being singled out for drugs ( http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23227642/ )
It does remind me that you don’t hear much (relatively) about the positive tests/penalties in American Football (case in point, Rodney Harrison)
OYF, well I will say those questions that Kay asks in rapid succession are about the dumbest gimmick on tv. I mean asking people their favorite actresses or bands doesn’t advance the understanding of the subject. I used to be a big Kay supporter, but I have to say I have grown very sick of his schtick. I wish an unabashed Yankee fan had the show, not a guy who goes out of his to show he’s not a Yankee fan.
I keep going back and forth in my own mind regarding Roger Clemens. However, I object to this guilt by association stuff. McNamee knew that Pettitte used HGH and probably figured if cornered, would admit to it. He knew that Chuck Knoblauch took HGH. He also knew he had given HGH to Debbie Clemens. According to Clemens, he’s been outspoken about treating your body like a temple, etc., etc. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that those who are close to him (wife, friend) would hide their use from him. It is also not outside the realm of possibility that McNamee would realize that if Pettitte and Knoblauch admit to HGH, most people will have trouble believing Clemens did not use PEDs at all.
I guess what I’m trying to say is Pettitte using HGH has absolutely nothing to do with whether Clemens did or did not. And, furthermore, if Clemens did not use steroids or HGH, then I would say his reaction is pretty much what I would expect from him.
I’d read that before, he is so right. But some in the media will spin this.
Doreen:
The things you are seeing in Roger’s deposition are the kinds of things that lead me to prefer to sort out who the liars are at a trial. It just can’t be done by throwing everything together and seeing what happens and it can’t be sorted out by reading a columnist who’s shamelessly in bed with McNamee’s lawyer.
It takes a trial, ideally an ordered, orderly and regulated process, with the final decision in the hands of a trier of fact who has heard ALL of the evidence with an open mind.
Add that Clemens Institute piece to McNamee’s quid pro quo with the Government, his record of lies and a few other oddities and you have quite a bit to consider against his statements that tend to incriminate Clemens. Figuring out the real picture just can’t be done without a trial.
“The chick has issues.” I know. I want to fondle her issues.
It’s been established that Clemens attended an institution of higher learning in Texas.
It’s also been established that he was not an English major. The Dean of Admissions mis-heard what Roger’s intentions were.
If Roger treated his body like a temple, why did he have a non-physician shoot him up with B12 and Lidocaine?
Doreen - McNamee saved syringes and gauge from Roger for 6 years. If you can think of another plausable reason, you tell me, but it is obvious to me that McNamee planned to blackmail Roger. My guess would be when his career was over, and he was up for the HOF. Maybe he was using it for this ‘Institute’ thing. Whatever it is, since 1991, McNamee has been planning to extort Roger.
I don’t know if Roger did PEDs or not. I’m actually not that concerned, especially if it was for a very limited amount of time. I am concerned that a guy like McNamee might get off scott free. This guy is truly slimy.
“The chick has issues.” I know. I want to fondle her issues
___
All I’m saying is that she was beautiful and hot before surgery, and for some crazy reason, she had some surgeon stick balloons in her chest. It’s nuts, imo.
Because their Home grown True Blue YANKEES who wouldn’t abandon a person like ANDY!
If McNamee wanted to blackmail Roger, why didn’t he do it when Mitchell first contacted him? It’s not like he didn’t need the money. He could have done it by merely saying that he wouldn’t tell Mitchell the truth and that he would protect Roger, and he could have saved the syringes for when Clemens was up for the Hall of Fame, but he didn’t do it.
He said he saved Knoblach’s syringes too, yet he didn’t try to blackmail him.
Yes, McNamee is slimy, but there is corroboration that he is telling the truth in this instance, and nothing to back up Roger but his silly, misplaced anger.
murphydog –
It is truly clear that someone needs to get in there and organize the information!!!!
OYFan –
I never wanted to use the “b” word, but obviously, that’s crossed my mind.
Whoa –
The Mitchell report was the perfect way for McNamee - blackmail is such a dirty thing. This way, he could dirty Roger up, and while not looking exactly pristine himself, he could say he had no choice but to divulge this information, and maybe even be a hero for helping to clean up baseball. You know he’ll write a book, don’t you?
Jennifer –
What a great contest Hughes has going. So far I saw 2 people with the right answer; I had an idea, but researched it. Not an easy fact to find, might I say!
Doreen,
Yes, but he could have made money by dirtying Roger up, if blackmail was his intention, and he didn’t do it.
The guy is broke, as far as I know, so I can’t blame him for a book deal if he can get one.
What bothers me about the guy is the date rape drug thing, not this. Yet Clemens and Pettitte stuck with him despite those facts. I wish someone would have asked Pettitte about his reaction to that today.
whoa - “He could have done it by merely saying that he wouldn’t tell Mitchell the truth…”
Dude! Once he was in hotwater and threatened with jail, that was not the time to try blackmail. It would have killed his credibility if he was found out and all but guarantee jailtime.
I don’t think McNamee or Roger anticipated the MR. According to documentation, McNamee did NOT give up Roger UNTIL the Feds said they already knew about Roger and that McNamee was in deep doodoo if he didn’t cooperate.
After all, Roger was not only his ‘friend’, but his meal ticket too.
Had this not happened, what would happen if right after Roger’s name was put on the HOF ballet, McNamee showed him the ’stuff’? Would it be worth a million dollars to Roger to avoid a scandle right when he was on the steps of the HOF?
As I said, you give me another reason. Saving bio-waste is illegal. Tell me why.
People should understand that athletes form a strong, personal bond with their trainers. Others who knew McNamee claimed he was a very good trainer. Without sounding silly, these guys are naked together a lot (shower room) and a trainer ‘handles’ his athlete’s body. This is an intimate relationship. Who would you rather get a shot in the azz from: a good, personel friend who is right there, or travel to a strange doctor? These guys trusted McNamee and they both stated that many time. Justice also said the same thing. If McNamee said something, they believed him.
People are not black and white, all good or all bad. Serial killers had friends. Mafia hit men cry like babies at weddings and give to charity. Andy and Roger met McNamee as a trainer, and he was good at it. He was in great shape and also had ‘knowledge’. My guess is both Andy and Roger respected McNamee. Neither were at the pool during the rape.
All they knew was their own personal experience with him, and that was good.
OYF,
If he said Pettitte and Knoblach were the only ones that he injected, the Feds would have no basis of knowledge to implicate Clemens (I missed the part about the Feds telling him that they already knew about Roger. Where can I read that?).
But since he has had the syringes, he lost the Yankee job and the SJU job. He needed money. Mitchell hadn’t been assigned the task of doing a report.
Why not blackmail Clemens or Knoblach over the last few years? He may not even have enough money to survive until Clemens is up for Hall of Fame consideration in five plus years.
I think he could have gotten his million dollars any time he produced it, especially since the steroid hysteria that has taken hold since 2005.
I don’t know about this bio-waste is illegal thing.
from espn:
“Pettitte said on the flight to Washington for his deposition, his wife handed him a Bible and told him to read Romans 13 for inspiration, a section that begins: “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities.”
i wonder what pettitte’s wife thinks of adolph hitler, joseph stalin,idi amin, and how our country was formed by not submitting to the king of england.
i find andy pettitte and his wife incredibly simplistic. they are almost childlike in their belief systems. andy’s and his wife’s concept of truth and right and wrong are very different than most of us. i just can’t take the guy serious when he talks about off the field issues. i love andy the baseball player, but i think it’ll take a court of law to get a precise story out of him. i don’t trust his ability to reason and make distinctions about complex issues.
randy, I think your comment is extremely degrading and demeaning to millions of religious people across the country. I am not religious, but I have learned to respect people for their religious freedom. You find religious people who take their scripture to heart “childlike in their belief system”?
I suggest you think twice before you say stuff like that.
My guess is that for all the simplicity that characterizes Pettitte and his wife, they can distinguish between the US and Hitler, Stalin, et al, and would have cited a different biblical passage to sustain them.
“I find andy pettitte and his wife incredibly simplistic. they are almost childlike in their belief systems.”
——————————————————–
This describes many folk who follow the Bible. It’s not for me, but many people believe. Their view is simplistic. It’s laid out for them in the Bible, and their own personal intepretations of it.
“I missed the part about the Feds telling him that they already knew about Roger. Where can I read that?”
… It’s in ONE of the written documents. Maybe the one where Rogers people questioned him. It’s part of the record.
“I don’t know about this bio-waste is illegal thing.”
… Yes. It’s a health hazzard. Haven’t you seen the special ‘garbage cans’ in doctors offices and hospitals? There are laws specific to it’s disposal.
You did NOT answer my question.
No more bloviating…
WHY DID McNAMEE save illegal Clemens bio-waste for 6 years?
randy i agree completely. most religious people and specifically evangelical christians base their whole relationship to the world on a childrens story with NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE.
they use their faith to get out of the beauty of humanity which is to discover the mysteries of the world.
also, im disgusted by the man love for andy here. this has nothing to do with hgh, its the fact that he threw his best friend under the bus when he could have said he didnt recall a conversation, he brings up his sick father as a drug dealer (what about hoor thy father and mother andy?) and he lied to his employer defrauding them potentially of 16million dollars. then when he is scared his bible thunmping hypocritic but is going to be in jail he finds god and rats evreyone out.
hes a good lefthander but not a man. and all of you that defend him are as pathetic as red sox fans.
i dont agree with a lot of what pete writes but he is right on in pounding petitte at every opportunity.
ey-
andy pettitte and his wife are the ones who are bringing religion into the situation. they have their right to believe what they want and i have a right to believe what i want. just as we all have.
their religious views impact how they perceive truth. i do not find them very sophisticated in their views.
do you want to live in a world where evangelicals support all that their government does ?
maybe you should take your own advice and think twice before you answer.
what exactly is clemens supposed to do if he is innocent? can anyone here bashing him tell me that? why are you taking andy pettite’s word when he has lied not once but twice about HGH use? He is allegedly a wife cheater? He sold out his father and best friend so he can “make the troubled decision” to come out and make 16 million a year and have sycophants like the losers on this board give him a free pass. you people are truly pathetic.
“WHY DID McNAMEE save illegal Clemens bio-waste for 6 years?”
I think we discussed it before. I believe that he thought it was foreseeable that Clemens could get into legal difficulties as a result of PED usage and if he did, he might try to scapegoat McNamee. So it was reasonable that McNamee would save the syringes to defend himself against a rich, powerful, famous man if that happened in order to bolster his credibility.
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“… It’s in ONE of the written documents. Maybe the one where Rogers people questioned him. It’s part of the record.”
If you or anyone else can come up with a link or a cite, I would appreciate it.
“… Yes. It’s a health hazzard. Haven’t you seen the special ‘garbage cans’ in doctors offices and hospitals? There are laws specific to it’s disposal.”
I didn’t know that applied to non-medical professionals. Anyway, it is the least of his problems.
“I think we discussed it before. I believe that he thought it was foreseeable that Clemens could get into legal difficulties as a result of PED usage and if he did, he might try to scapegoat McNamee. So it was reasonable that McNamee would save the syringes to defend himself against a rich, powerful, famous man if that happened in order to bolster his credibility.”
This makes absolutely no sense. It’s basically what McNamee said. The only thing it might prove is that Mac shoot up Roger. How does that protect Mac. It just implicated him.
What could Roger accuse Mac of that the syringes would disprove. Think it through. What you said makes no logical sense. Again… What could Roger accuse Mac of that the syringes would disprove?
EYT - Don’t tell me… you forgot to take your meds again, right?
OYF -dont tell me, you cant refute what i say so you make a personal attack, right? loser
McNamee said he saved the paraphernalia so that he went down, he’d make sure he didn’t go down alone. Not to exonerate himself. He knows saving the stuff is an admission by him that he administered the stuff.
This makes absolutely no sense. It’s basically what McNamee said. The only thing it might prove is that Mac shoot up Roger. How does that protect Mac. It just implicated him.
What could Roger accuse Mac of that the syringes would disprove. Think it through. What you said makes no logical sense. Again… What could Roger accuse Mac of that the syringes would disprove?
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If Clemens was accused of having taken PEDs in the past, he could say that he thought that he wast taking B12 and that he was duped by McNamee.
The syringes make that story less likely (holding the chain of custody issues in abeyance for the sake of argument).
andy’s a good guy no doubt. one thing does not make sense throughout this story. andy keeps saying he loves roger and they are best of friends. how come they are not in communication? why is their contact limited to a phone call a few months ago? a question of this nature received a brush-off at his news conference.