Pettitte and Hughes throw some BP
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Feb 25, 2008 
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Andy Pettitte and Phil Hughes threw live BP today on the main field. It was very interesting to watch.
Pettitte is working on a slide step, something he has never used in the past, to hold runners closer.
Why would a lefty with a great pickoff move need a slide step? According to Pettitte, several players in the AL East have tormented him by stealing third base, He mentioned Aaron Hill, Brian Roberts and Alex Rios.
“I have to figure out some way to keep them from doing that,” he said.
Hughes was, in a word, terrific. He made Johnny Damon, Derek Jeter, Bobby Abreu and Francisco Cervelli look foolish at times. He got Abreu to swing and miss at a curveball and had Damon fouling balls off the other way, a sign of how late his swing was. Jeter only swung at 3 of the 10 pitches he saw and fouled all of them off.
Now, keep in mind, the hitters have been facing live pitching for four days and Hughes started throwing off a mound in Tampa in mid January. But what was encouraging is the confidence with which Hughes threw his curveball.
That was the pitch he was throwing when he blew out his hamstring in Texas last May. For Hughes to throw the curve the way he wants, he has to follow through with his body and “snap” the pitch off. Without confidence that your legs will hold up, it’s a hard pitch to throw.
As he said later on, he never had his true curveball last year after the injury. Now it’s back. Hughes is working out with Pettitte six days a week and has dropped 10 pounds since last season. You can never say never, but all the work he has done should help him avoid leg injuries.
I know it’s Feb. 25. But if you’re a Yankees fan you should be just as excited about Hughes as you are Joba Chamberlain. Phil Franchise is the real deal.
“As he said later on, he never had his true curveball last year after the injury. Now it’s back. Hughes is working out with Pettitte six days a week and has dropped 10 pounds since last season. You can never say never but all the work he has done should help him avoid leg injuries.
I know it’s Feb. 25. But if you’re a Yankees fan you should be just as excited about Hughes as you are Joba Chamberlain. Phil Franchise is the real deal.”
It’s crazy how far and fast his stock has dropped in the past year with a lot of Yankee fans. A lot of folks were ready to drive Phil Hughes to Minnesota themselves in December. I hope he has a good year and quiet’s a lot of the doubters.
I don’t think his stock has fallen, he’s just been overshadowed by Joba of late.
“A lot of folks were ready to drive Phil Hughes to Minnesota themselves in December.”
How can you blame people for wanting to trade him for Santana? I don’t want to rehash this argument but I don’t think that wanting to trade Phil for Santana really shows that his value has dropped.
Heck, I’m not excited because Phil’s showing himself to be every bit the Phil Franchise we want him to be, but I’m excited because, if his blog’s any indication, he’s an amazing man.
Pete,
Great report. We’re all dying to know though, how’s his fastball velocity?
I felt very gleefull reading that post.
Pete how was Phil’s heater placement
Just got back from practice. Hughes was nasty today. He had some serious pop on his fastball and looked great. Jose Veras was also throwing absolute gas at the end of practice.
That report just made my day.
I am so pumped for the season to start and to watch a full season out of Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain. Gonna be fun.
I’m *still* more excited about Phil Hughes than Joba Chamberlain, but that’s just me.
Great report!
I have a mixed feelings of nervousness and excitement for all the pitchers this season. There are alot of question marks but thats why we play the game, right?
Brandon, This from Feinsand’s blog on the Daily News website…
“Hughes was snapping off breaking balls and hitting his spots with his fastball, looking like someone who is ready for the season to start.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/yankees/
Good news on Phil. I agree last year the reaction of so many fans and media to Hughes performance was remarkably short sighted. How many times did we hear he was “overrated” etc, etc. based on his performance coming back from injury? Michael Kaye went on and on about how Phil didn’t impress him much. That his stuff wasn’t that good. Kaye would go on and on about Clemens and how the Rocket generated all of his power from his legs. Then in the next breath completely ignore the fact that Hughes was off because of his leg injury.
Phil has the ceiling to be a front line pitcher. Like any young arm he might not get there but the talent is absolutely there.
Pat M is a great poster on this board. He lives in Southern California and has been watching baseball there forever. He saw Phil pitch in high school and talked to a scout about him. This scout had been working the area for years. He told Pat M that Phil was one of the 5 best right handed high school pitching prospects he’d ever seen. One of the other five was Tom Seaver.
It’s great to have the wealth of pitching talent the yankees do and it seems like New York is excited about it. But judging from the way so many people panicked when phil was coming back from that injury it’ll be interesting to see how the fans, media and franchise react to those times when these young arms take their lumps as they develop.
Phil Hughes developed as fast as any high school pitching prospect has over the past few years. If that’s not good enough or fast enough then people need to be more realistic about their expectations for building with young players.
Its not a question of Hughes’ stock falling. He was discussed about being traded for the best pitcher on the planet.
Its not like folks were looking to give him away.
Lets just keep our fingers crossed that Phenom Phil stays healthy and manages to beat the high odds of suffering an injury this year.
High odds according to Will Carroll of Baseball Prospects. Read more about that here:
http://nyystadiuminsider.com/2.....ealth.html
Dr. Cox-
Thats what makes this time of year so exciting! =]
I’m really surprized more main stream media hasn’t talked more about the workouts and how in shape a lot of the Yankees are this year.. I mean, Bruney, Britton, etc aren’t that well known..
But Giambi is a lot thinner, and theres a fitter looking Joba too.
Pete,
How about cell-phone videoing some of these BPs and posting them?
Is that legal or would we be giving advantage to other teams or something like that?
Anyone know how Mussina looks? Is he throwing 85 like last year, or is he 89-91 mph like he was in 2006? We’re going to need Mussina to pitch some real innings this season with all the capped arms in our rotation. Anyone got a report?
Amen Pete.
I never jumped off the Philly Franchise bandwagon and still maintain that he will be a better long term starter than Joba – even though I have extremely high hopes for both.
thanks Joe
Folks around here were willing to trade Phil Hughes and Wang for Santana. To me that’s giving him away.
SJ44, great point.
well ray, those people were out of their gourd.
You aren’t going to see a lot of veteran pitchers, or younger one’s for that matter, ratcheting up the velocity this early in camp.
They have a long way to go before the start of the season.
With Moose, its not how he is throwing on February 26. Its how he is throwing on April 2.
Its why, once the games begin, results from the pitchers are not what’s important.
Pitchers work on things in ST games. Its making sure they are making progress from start to start and come out of each start healthy. Those are the important things after their outings.
Still a long way to go before Opening Day, but if you aren’t getting good vibes from what we’ve seen/heard about so far, you belong in Boston (no offense Ray or Brian)
NJ in Tampa: I like hearing Veras was throwing gas; I’ve made no secret that the bullpen is by far my biggest concern about the 08 team.
I love Joba and all he brings, but I’ve been a Hughes fan since he hit town.
I’m glad that he’s got it going again. There’s a reason why he was our top prospect and it goes beyond pitching.
As Yankee fans, we have to be careful about comparing Joba & Phil because it can get ugly like the Jeter/Alex comparisons. We need to just enjoy the fact that we may have a future 1A & 1B between Phil and Joba,in no particular order.
As someone who never wanted Santana, not for Phil and not for Melky, I couldn’t be happier that Phil’s feeling so strong and healthy. He and Ian, to me, are even more exciting to watch than Joba. That Game 3 ALDS outing was spectacular. I couldn’t be more excited for the season to start; this is going to be a fantastic year. It’s the 10th anniversary of the 114-win 98 season and the 10th anniversary of Wells’s perfect game.
To be honest, I am more excited about Phil than I am about Joba. We know what Joba can do in relief, but who knows how he’ll fair as a starter? Phil looked really good at times last year and IMO, solid starters are far more valuable than set up men.
“Its not a question of Hughes’ stock falling. He was discussed about being traded for the best pitcher on the planet.”
why would the Yankees trade Hughes for Joba?
that doesn’t make sense.
As a Division I pitcher, I can confidently say that outside of grip, elbow movement, and wrist movement, there is zero difference between a fastball delivery and a curveball delivery. I’m not sure where you’re getting this stuff about his legs. He could have just have easily pulled that hammy had he been throwing a heater.
I certainly hope it’s Phil Phranchise and not Phil Phony.
hmm: LMAO!
Harry S: Division I? What school?
“Still a long way to go before Opening Day, but if you aren’t getting good vibes from what we’ve seen/heard about so far, you belong in Boston (no offense Ray or Brian)”
I still have many questions that I want to see pan out, but that doesn’t mean AT ALL that I belong in Boston. This is the first year in a LONG time that many players on our team are so young that things are stil very much up in the air. Am I excited, absolutely. But am I nervous too?? You Bet.
If phil is able to keep pitching like that the biggest problem will be when not to let him start.
Dr. Cox: There’s a noticeable difference between being nervous and being downright pessimistic =)
mel – just saw your question about kennedy and the sox from the last thread,
it’s hard to say if the sox would have picked kennedy in 2006 but I don’t think they would have taken him. I really don’t think they would have taken him with the two picks they had in round 1. They had pick #40 in the supplemental and I suppose they may have taken him there.
Kennedy had a very strange college career. After his first two years he was considered by many to be perhaps one of the best pitchers in NCAA history. People were comparing him to Mark Prior and Randy Johnson (not in terms of stuff but in terms of results and winning. Prior and Johnson also went to USC). His success in college just added to what he did in high school. He played in what may be the best high school league in the country (he’s from the Los Angeles area – not far from where Phil played) and was one of the most dominating pitchers in Southern California high school history.
But his Junior year he was only “good” – not great. His ERA went up quite a bit and supposedly his velocity had dropped into the high 80′s. Teams soured on him very quickly and it looked like he could drop – a lot.
When the yankees picked him at #23 many, many people thought it was an awful pick. There were tons of draftniks and bloggers who were incensed that the yankees had picked a “low ceiling” arm like Kennedy. Many people went crazy that they didn’t pick Dan Bard – a pitcher from North Carolina who can throw 100 mph. The sox eventually took Bard at #27 and many people in baseball thought that Theo had done it again – got a steal in the draft because Bard has such a high ceiling.
Damon Oppenheimer was one of the few people still very high on Kennedy in baseball. Taking Kennedy in many ways was riskier than taking Joba at #41 because Kennedy was a round 1 pick and so many people had soured on him.
Dan Bard had a horrific season last year. He couldn’t throw the ball over the plate at all and spent the season in low A ball.
Kennedy – well we know how the low ceiling guy did last year. Needless to say he’s a long way from low A ball.
You mean there was no BP from Pavano?
Considering how Hughes was the name mentioned in the possible Santana deal, can we finally knock off the idiotic “Phil Franchise” nickname once and for all? He’s obviously not the untradeable Yankee icon-to-be that you want him to be.
Rebecca, youre right. And from my posts, I dont believe negativity were in any of them…
if he wasnt the untradeable icon-to-be, wouldnt he have been traded?
“He’s obviously not the untradeable Yankee icon-to-be”
Brian Cashman seems to disagree with you.
CB–great analysis on Kennedy and his value. He’s my favorite of the Big Three–although Phil’s a close second. He reminds me of Moose in his cerebral approach to pitching, and he’s crafty. I wish he’d gotten the win in Toronto, because he was unhittable that night.
The Yankees lineup isn’t breaking in that many young players.
Only Cano and Cabrera are under 32 in their everyday lineup.
The pitching staff? Wang is going into his fourth year. He’s no longer a “kid” from an experience standpoint.
Pettitte, Mussina, Rivera, Farnsworth and Hawkins are all veterans.
We are talking about 4, maybe 5 “kids” (as in rookies or first year players) on the team out of 25 players.
Its still not a lot of youth but its trending in the right direction. This is what the Yankees have to do to remain competitive in the next few years.
Donna–really? He’s tradeable? Then why would Hank, who wields all the power, defer to Cash and take him off the table? From what I’ve heard, there was much hesitancy to put him out there to begin with. Santana is arguably the best pitcher in baseball. To yank Hughes away when they could have gotten Santana with him in a deal speaks volumes about his worth.
“Damon Oppenheimer was one of the few people still very high on Kennedy in baseball. Taking Kennedy in many ways was riskier than taking Joba at #41 because Kennedy was a round 1 pick and so many people had soured on him”
agreed.
and it is exactly because of kennedy that i am so optimistic about Brackman.
the Yankees LOVE Ian Kennedy. there is no question about that. they probably reached a little to pick him, he may have still be there at #41 had they picked Joba in the first round instead. then they paid him quite a bit more than any other team would have given him.
i see the same thing with Brackman. the yankees LOVE Brackman.
it wasn’t clear at the time why the yankees were so enamored with Kennedy, and his performance last year was a surprise to a lot of people. there were a similar number of skeptics when the yankees took Brackman, but i think they feel the same way about Brackman as they felt about Kennedy.
hopefully Oppenheimer is right on both of them.
Harry: I got that info from Hughes. He said he starts his curveball off higher in his delivery.
Geez, folks lighten up.
The guy was included in talks to acquire the best pitcher in the world. He wasn’t being banished to the Dominican League.
It would be like Melky Cabrera being upset if his name was thrown into trade discussions for Albert Pujols.
My question for the day? Why are so many Yankee fans unhappy? Certain posters are so upset when they post in the blog, I think they may be suicidal at times. I’m just curious to know what has them so upset.
The team is fitter coming into ST than it was last year. The organization is filled with young players who seem not only eager to be Yankees, they aren’t in awe of their surroundings.
You have a new manager and new way of doing things. They brought back Arod, Pettitte, Posada and Rivera.
Veterans such as Giambi, Mussina, Abreu, Damon and Jeter are in their best shape in years.
Phil Hughes seems healthy again.
Call me crazy but, I don’t see a lot to be unhappy about concerning the team at this time.
Most people think that Joba is better than Hughes. They may turn out to be surprised.
“Considering how Hughes was the name mentioned in the possible Santana deal, can we finally knock off the idiotic “Phil Franchise†nickname once and for all?”
seriously guys. a Yankee blog is absolutely no place for passion and excitement about young and talented Yankee players.
there are only 3 appopriate uses for this forum:
1. Bashing Cashman
2. Bashing A-Rod
3. Conceding the 2008 season because we did not trade for Santana
Man-love for Phil growing
SJ–brilliantly put. I couldn’t agree more. I haven’t felt this optimistic about a Yankee team and its ability, potential, and chemistry in almost 10 years.
SJ44,
I totaly agree. Last year with had Pavano and Igawa in the back of our rotation, this year we have Hughes and Kennedy.
I think people are negative becaus the media like WFAN and ESPN are high on the Mets and the Sox because they have “aces” and the Yanks have “questions”.
hmmm–
that made me giggle. Is it too early to bust out my “real Yankee fans never wanted Santana via trade in the first place” rant?
Marc,
I haven’t seen one media outlet, blog, or analysis predict the Yankees winning the East, either, but I’d beg to differ. I think it’s possible. This is the team that, had they not been so injured/out of shape could have won 100 games easily.
I cant understand reading all this doom and gloom comments. This is the most possitive thread that Pete has reported all year. But its still raining in some peoples minds. Honestly. I would be happy if Phil,Joba and Kennedy ended up #2s. Give me 3 or 4 #2′s and you can have an Ace with the other being 4′s and 5′s. I havnt been this excited since the lat 90′s. Hop on negative Nancy’s before its too late.
hmmm-good to see your name there without the week stuff that followed. Welcome back.
CB,
Thanks for the great insight.
SJ,
Seems to be a good mix of youth & vets.
Donna,
You’re right. Phil was tradeable because he was offered (which was retarded-no offense anyone). But he’ll prove himself and won’t be hearing trade talk anytime soon. If Joba had an ‘f’ sound in his name some clever writer would’ve given him the ‘Phranchise’ tag.
“and it is exactly because of kennedy that i am so optimistic about Brackman.”
I thought the same thing about the Brackman selection. You’re right that they absolutely love Brackman and its’ clear that they had really zeroed in on him.
Brackman’s contract speaks volumes. $4.25 million signing bonus and a major league contract for a guy with a bad elbow? Brackman/ Boras seemed to have zero leverage (what was Brackman going to do – go back to college for his last year with a bad elbow? take a red shirt and come back for a 5th year? he wasn’t very good at basketball so the two sport stuff was nonsense).
Given Oppenheimer and Cash’s record on the draft its very hard to knock them. They clearly know what they are doing.
I’m excited about Phil. I’m also excited about Ian, I’d like to hear more about him. I saw him pitch in KC last year, I think it was his second time out, and he looked pretty good to me. Then I got to see Joba pitch, and, well, yeah. With a young pitcher, you see the raw talent and you imagine the sky’s the limit. His performance was awesome. His dad was there and a bunch of folks came down from Nebraska to support him. It was a touching experience.
I’m excited about the future of our team as a whole, and it’s not only thanks to the young guys, but also because of what the veterans can pass on to them, and thanks to Cash for making (mostly) smart trades and developing the farm system. It’s a great time to be a Yankee fan.
sj,
Voice of reason.
hmmm,
Voice of truth.
#4. Bashing Jeter for not wanting to accept the MVP in February
Elizabeth,
I don’t agree with Mike and the Dog at all. If I was able to call up and get through I would point out to Dog, who thinks that the Yanks pitching is a big question, that they had Pavano and Igawa slated for the roster on opening day last year. As far as the bullpen, we had Farnsworth as the 8th inning setup man last year.
Never say never ? Am I missing something, or was this NOT Hughes first leg injury ? I suspect the kid will be fine, regardless. The fact that he is being more diligent with the workouts, can only mean good things.
Pete, this has been a real trend with you. Why is it that you talk like Hughes is injury prone ? He has had one injury in his career, and a fluke setback during his first ever rehab. That is not injury prone.
Donna, irony doesn’t seem to be your strong point. Santana = best pitcher on the planet (at least at the moment) and the Yankees, when all was said and done, would not trade Phil for Santana.
Yeah, Phil Franchise sounds about right to me.
Deadrody: Yes, you’re missing a lot. He had a foot injury in 2004 and a shoulder injury in 2005. Both landed him on the DL. Then came the hamstring in 2007. So in three of his four years as a professional player, he was on the DL.
No offense but I don’t make this stuff up as I go along. He’s had a series of injuries. That’s why he came here so early this year.
I love Hughes, that should be obvious. But facts be the facts.
Why is everyone giving the division to Boston?
(1) Beckett will be Beckett–but the Yanks owned him last year, correct?
(2) Matsuzaka–have Japanese pitchers ever improved in year 2?
(3) Lester–innings limit, correct? Rarely pitches more than 5 anyway.
(4) Bucholtz–same as Lester, on an innings limit?
(5) Schilling–career ending shoulder surgery by May?
(6) Wakefield–you’re counting on a 43 year old knuckleballer?
The WS champ has failed to make the playoffs the next year for the past 7 years. Keep that in mind.
That being said, I really like this Yankee team, regardless of this year’s final outcome. They should be fun to watch.
Yankees love Brackman because he was the best option to them available. If Rick Porcello fell into the Yankees lap there was no way they would have taken Brackman over Porcello. They didn’t like Brackman that much…
“If Rick Porcello fell into the Yankees lap there was no way they would have taken Brackman over Porcello. ”
oh, i agree with this. no doubt. these 2 don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
but the Yankees were picking 30th. they had to have known the chances of Porcello slipping to #30 were VERY VERY slim.
he almost made it, but even while i was watching the draft unfold, i knew Detroit would take him. i’m sure the Yankees knew it too.
Peter- As I recall, Phil’s foot injury was allegedly a hurt toe from kicking a door or something, and the shoulder thing was a pretty common soreness issue from throwing a bunch of innings out of high school (it happens to a lot of teenage pitching prospects- they feel a little sore and the team immediately shuts them down without testing it at all). Its really hard to say these injuries are a recurring pattern; the hamstring thing was the first one even worth talking about.
By the way, Jeter looks really good. He made some nice plays going up the middle today in practice that I haven’t seen him make in a while.
And Just as excited as Mets fans, more so
When we had just one reliable veteran SP (Wang) and no lefty, I did favor trading Hughes and Melky for Santana.
After Andy re-upped, I was glad our offer to the Twins changed. I think Cash handled it just right, on both ends of the Andy signing.