First cuts made
-
- March
- 2
The Yankees reassigned four players to the minor-league camp:
1B Eric Duncan
C Jesus Montero
INF Eduardo Nunez
C Austin Romine
The Yankees started camp with 69 players and now that the games have started there’s just not enough time and at-bats for everybody. Montero and Romine also need to start working with their pitchers they’ll actually be catching this season.
Eric Duncan was their first-round pick in 2003 out of Seton Hall Prep.
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on Sunday, March 2nd, 2008 at 5:25 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Here’s hoping Eric Duncan can get it all figured out this year in the minors.
damn I can’t even see Jesus on Wedensday
good luck Eric I expect a breakout AAA season from you this year, Austin keep doing what your doing.
I’m wondering when the Yankees will put Montero on 1B if he won’t be a catcher in the majors anyway. There’s nothing wrong with experience even on first, is there?
Eric is a nice kid but I wouldn’t invest too much in him having some sort of breakout season. He has had 1,878 pro at-bats and hit .250. 29 other teams passed on him in the Rule 5. He is what he is at this point. It would be a great story if he suddenly emerged but that would be a surprise.
it’s amazing watching joba on baseball tonight and comparing him with the clips from last years ALDS. he has lost all that baby fat from his face. he definitely looks to be in top shape.
he’s getting better at C every day mko and is 18 years old so relax w/ 1B until it’s needed, he gunned out runners at over 60 % his last winter games & this ST Tony Pena was teaching him how to improve there, I still believe Jesus will be a catcher and a damn good one too.
Pete I cold use Ryan Howard as an example he didn’t break until his mid 20’s and had some bad strikeouts to walk ratio stats. Eric is the opposite and actually could be a sleeper.
Wow Eric didn’t even get in a game.
Even if Duncan did have this “break out year” we’ve all been waiting for…where would the Yankees put him?
Montero and Romine were expected to go back down to the minors, yes? I can’t wait till Montero comes up. I’m on that kid’s bandwagon already.
Brandon: I hope you’re right, good catchers are hard to come by
Never let anyone talk you out of the goals you set for yourself Eric! SHP alumni are pulling for you buddy!
I was also noticing jobas weight loss… also they showed a clip of the yanks at ST (or maybe yes did on yanks magazine) and brian bruney looks thin(!) it was scary how in shape he looked compared to last yr…
eric duncan… i wonder wholl give up first, the organization or him
“I’m wondering when the Yankees will put Montero on 1B if he won’t be a catcher in the majors anyway. There’s nothing wrong with experience even on first, is there?”
When a guy with a plus bat plays a premium defensive position, you don’t move him until you have to. If he can play there even tolerably, his bat will MORE than make up for some defensive shortcomings. If it gets to the point where he’s just a huge liability—like pitchers are afraid to put a curve in the dirt with him back there—or the work on playing his position is stunting his offensive growth…then you move him. But you keep Montero behind the plate until he shows you that he can’t handle it back there.
“Pete I cold use Ryan Howard as an example he didn’t break until his mid 20’s and had some bad strikeouts to walk ratio stats.”
Generalizing from special cases is a common logical error. Most guys that have a track record like Duncan don’t pan out. Would it be great if he had a breakout year? Yep. Is it reasonable to expect him to? Definitely not. And, if Ensberg beats out Shelley and the latter returns to AAA…with him and Miranda in the mix at 1B, what do you do with Eric?
Jennifer, Eric was put in late yesterday and got a single.
Austin Romine, though, didn’t get into a game (well, that anyone could watch, anyway.) I think he was in the exhibition game against South Florida. Shame, I wanted to see him.
Gammons: Yankees are trying to emulate the Red Sox. In reference to the Yankees developing pitchers.
What! The Yankees are actually trying to emulate the Yankees of the mid-late nineties. Not the Red Sox. Peter is so bias. Geez.
That comment by Gammons aside, it’s a stretch to call Gammons biased. Just because he writes in Boston, and emotionally he’s a Sox fan, he does a decent job of being reasonable. More than most of us could manage.
Who the hell have the Red Sox developed of note? Manny DelCarmin? Hansen? Sorry the jury is still out on Lester and Buchholz.
“Yankees are trying to emulate the Red Sox. In reference to the Yankees developing pitchers.”
Um…which good MLB pitchers have the redsox produced recently? Papelbon and…who? Lester, the king of the 5-inning start?
Gammons opinion that the Red Sox have developed any recent pitching success stories is certainly biased.
The only people who assume Buccholz, Lester and Hansen are sure things are die-hard Sox fans.
Tell me Buccholz and then google Bo Belinsky.
My mistake, Jon Papelbon is a success story, ahem, as long as he stays focused.
Jesus won’t soon forget his 1st major league spring training with the Yankees.
He’ll be heard from sooner than later.
Not to say that none of those Sox pitchers will develope, my point is the group of young pitchers I named are no further along than Hughes, Joba or IPK.
On the bright side for Eric Duncan – he batted 1.000 in spring training this year.
The not-so-bright side: his stay with the organization is probably coming to a close. As whozat pointed out, there could be a situation soon where there just aren’t positions available for him anymore. Outside of the Yankees’ system, the fact that he cleared waivers last year speaks volumes about what scouts in general think of him any more.
Who really cares who’s emulating whom? As long as the end result is Joba, IPK and Hughes pitching successfully on the ML team, with many other arms in the system.
“That comment by Gammons aside, it’s a stretch to call Gammons biased. Just because he writes in Boston, and emotionally he’s a Sox fan, he does a decent job of being reasonable. More than most of us could manage.”
Maybe Gammons used to be a fair reporter. Now he is as biased as they come when it comes to his Red Sox.
Gammons has as much objectivity as Kim Jong Ill of North Korea does.
Gammon’s behavior during the process of the Santana fiasco clearly indicates where his loyalties lie.
“That comment by Gammons aside, it’s a stretch to call Gammons biased. Just because he writes in Boston, and emotionally he’s a Sox fan, he does a decent job of being reasonable. More than most of us could manage.”
Agreed. Kudos to you for digging through all the BS and really looking at the facts.
Gammons is a Hall of Famer. He didn’t get voted in by the folks at ESPN. He’s in there for a reason – he’s still one of the top baseball gurus in the country.
Yeah, him and Mike Lupica.
The Red Sox have developed Papelbon. Even when he was a prospect I don’t think he was thought of as highly as Hughes and Joba are now. Some people would take Bucholtz over Hughes. But I don’t know about that. When was Bucholtz ever considered the best pitching prospect in baseball like Hughes was? Hughes was always compared to Homer Baily personally I never heard Bucholtz name ever bought up when Baily and Hughes was being called the 2 of the best pitching prospects in baseball. People will call it close but maybe I’m wrong but I think if most people had to choose between Bucholtz and Hughes based on stuff,mechanics,minor league career… they would take Hughes.
As for Lester I don’t think he was ever considered a great prospect.
To compare Eric Duncan andRyan Howard in terms of breakout potential is a bit insane. One of the reasons Howard didnt make it up to the majors for so long is that there was this guy names Jim Tome who occupied first base for the Philies for a few years. It was not until Tome got hurt that Howard got his shot in the majors.
IN 2004 in the minors he had 46 HR and 131 RBI in between AA and AAA, 2003 he had 23 and 82 RBI and it was not until 2005 that he got called up for the 2nd part of the season.
At no level has Eric Duncan showed anything like that in terns of what he can do.
I would not be surprised if Eric Duncan has a breakout year this season. He is only 23 and is not major league ready at this point, which is why clubs did not take him in the Rule-V draft.
The catching situation in the lower minors will be interesting. Assuming nobody gets released the Yankees have Gil, LoNigro, Montero, Romine, Day, Weems, Anson, and Muich to fill spots in Tampa, Charleston and Staten Island.
Muich had played at Charleston, Tampa and Trenton last season. He is most likelying going to play a role similar to JT LaFountain did the past couple of years.
gammons is in the Hall of Fame, and Lee Smith, isn’t.
life is fair.
Say what you will about Gammons. But when he came back from his stroke, guys like Mattingly, Jeter and Torre linedup to give him a hug when they saw him in the clubhouse. He’s widely respected in the game and delivers good information. Beyond that, he really cares about baseball, which many national writers and analysts do not. He holds the Yankees in very high regard, something that is obvious when you read or hear him.
Honestly, a lot of this “so and so is biased” stuff gets laughed at by the people inside the game. It’s a job. Gammons wrote for the Boston Globe for years, so of course he knows a lot about that team and the people who run it. He lives there. Does that mean he can’t speak with knowledge about the Yankees or Dodgers or Pirates or any other team? Trust me when I tell you, the guys has sources with every team.
And while I understand that you have to denigrate all things Red Sox, the Yankees would take Buchholz in a second. He’s an outstanding prospect. Just like the Yankees would take Hughes or Joba. Nobody is emulating anybody, either. What both orgs are doing is common sense
for the record: i do like gammons.
Peter – You make a point. We should all be as respected in our careers as Peter Gammons is in his.
“Gammons is a Hall of Famer. He didn’t get voted in by the folks at ESPN. He’s in there for a reason – he’s still one of the top baseball gurus in the country.”
So are you telling me that at some point even people with Hall of Fame pedigree don’t fall off?
I like Mike Lupica. He has a lot of energy and he’s amusing to watch on the sports reporters every Sunday Morning. I like reading his articles too. There’s just something about them. It’s like he says it with authority and he makes you believe what he types. Gammons, well, doesn’t he work for ESPN? You know, the place where Red Sox Nation resides?
“Nobody is emulating anybody, either. What both orgs are doing is common sense”
Gammons seems to think that the Yankees are emulating the Sox however.
Hughes & Buchholz are fairly equal in terms of development, although that playoff outing by Hughes was superb.
I totally respect Gammons and having read him when I was going to school in Boston he was always a must read and he is a great writer and yes very well respected.
Where he lost me though was this past summer when he was “running” for president of Red SOx Nation and was part of the faux debate they had. I have no problem him doing it but at the same time you cant say you dont inherently then have some sort of bias. If any of the columnists or beat writers ran for President of Yankees Universe you would also have to take what hey say about the Yankees with a grain of salt.
I feel the same way about Tom Verducci of SI. He also is a great writer and his colums are a MUST READ. However you cant tell me that having worked with Joe Torre on his first book and now working wih him on his second book that you cant say that when he writes about Torre and the Yankees for that matter that he is somewhat biased.
LIsten everyone has there own biases and there is nothing wrong with it it is just important to know what they are so when you are listening or reading something someone says or writes you know that going in.
I have a lot of respect for Gammons. He’s a Red Sox fan, but he doesn’t pretend to be neutral. That says more to me than guys that pretend to be neutral but really aren’t.
If anything I would guess in building this Sox team, meaning the manner it was achieved, trading good prospects for Beckett, signing key free agents and developing good young players from within.
The Sox front office has emulated what the yankee front office did in developing those great teams of the 90s.
I think Gammons has it backwards.
Maybe a less diplomatic point of view is that Gammons is “biased”. But he does make it evident that Boston’s his favorite team.
” ... not that there’s anything wrong with that … ”
Sure, sometimes it may get a little irritating for some of the more irritable folks, but there is no job requirement of ‘complete neutrality’ for a sports journalist. Hey, Phil Rizzuto was CLEARLY a Yanks fan. Yes I know he worked for the Yanks but I don’t think that’s the point.
I’ve been reading different points of view and I’ve learned that from our side it seems ESPN is a little “pro-Boston” while people in Boston might say they’re a little “pro-Yanks”. At the same time, other cities’ fans might get a little irritated that they put so much emphasis on the NY-Boston rivalry.
I was hoping to catch a Montero AB. Oh well…turns attention to Tabata and Jackson
I think that Gammons, after a long career of being unbiased and after a life threatening personal sickness, should be allowed to show his true colors and be an out and out Red Sox fan. However, he can’t continue to imply he is unbiased.
Same with Lupica, if you read him, you know he will trash the Yankees constantly. It was a bit surprising he said he was rooting for Hughes in today’s article. However, he lies a lot.
On the other hand, you have mad dog russo, a proud Yankee hater. Good for him, at least he is honest and doesn’t pretend not to be.
Bottom line is folks who are biased should just admit it. That time has come for Gammons.
I remember one day maybe a year or two ago, when Mad Dog actually had me laughing hysterically as he wore a Yankee hat for an entire show, declaring that he was now a Yankee fan because he was fed up with his Giants. That lasted for a grand total 6 hours, haha.
Lupica drives me out of my mind. Everything he writes is dripping with Yankee hatred.
Gammons has credibility right up until he says that Varitek is the most important player on the team. Then it goes straight down the toilet.
As a former sportswriter, I completely disagree that sportswriters consider it “just a job.” I would say it is the exception that doesn’t write a story based on whose pocket he’s in for the moment, and that MANY harbor childhood rooting biases which MANY are not particularly good at veiling. I covered baseball and hockey for United Press International, and covered the NFL for New Jersey and Washington papers.
I did this for 10 years, and quit for many reasons – chief among them is the formula editors pressure you to write (NOTE: whenever I AVOIDED formula, I got letters from readers praising my work). What’s even more disappointing – many of the people covering pro sports are nice people, but sportswriting brings out the gratuitousness in many of them, and it’s frightening how many of them really BELIEVE the cliches they spin out – it’s like they have no ability or interest in seeing the deeper, pure game.
It’s not wonder: covering a team can be incredibly tedious, and dealing with PR people and trainers who lie to you (especially in Football) is an artless, thankless job. No wonder people get mean spirited. Having said that, it’s the odd and rare writer who cares about the game, and you may be right that Gammons preserves the purist’s love of the game.
It’s funny; sportswriters are fond of sitting around and making fun of the athletes they cover, and ridiculing their rote answers; if these people only knew how cliched and rote their stories come off.
“Nobody is emulating anybody, either. What both orgs are doing is common sense.”
Pete, agreed, but tell that to your boy Gammons, cause he is the one who stated otherwise.
I agree with Jeff NJ, I would respect Gammons a lot more if he would just ADMIT to his heavy Boston bias. I know he has great knowledge of baseball and I’m never uninterested to hear what he has to say, but I don’t dig his insulting baseball fans’ intelligence by claiming that he’s impartial when he’s really anything but. The comment about the Yanks emulating the RS is a perfect example of his ludicrous homerism.
Jax
Did you know they developed Beckett, Schilling, Wakefield, Pedro? Shame on you.
I just don’t see a huge ESPN bias towards either the Yanks or the Sox. Then again, I’m getting older, and maybe my analytical skills are deteriorating. I will say one thing …. both teams get a lot of ESPN air time, so you’d have to expect some negativity along the way. But if your team is winning (current Sox, 90s Yankees), you’ll find that the ESPN pundits will treat you pretty kindly. “To the victors belong the spoils.”
Re: Lupica. I can understand the irritation of Yankee fans towards him. But allow me to suggest something. His negativity towards the Yankees is usually in his choice of subject matter (e.g. Clemens’ mendacity, Hank’s bluster). He hammers those topics but, the fact is, he’s right. So it’s not his observations that are unfair. Rather, he can’t seem to find anything good to write about the Yankees. That would drive me nuts.
Patrick Bateman – Agreed about the idiocy of implying Vagitek is their most important player. I think he’s partly still looking for an excuse for his team’s 2006 swoon in claiming that things fall apart without that washed-up, cheap-fighting SOB. And did you see how far back they had to go to get footage of Varitek getting a big hit vs Yanks, all the way to April? If he was really the most important player couldn’t they have found something more current than that? Cause, I mean, we know they wouldn’t have had to dig into their April archives to find a big A-Rod hit vs Boston pitching!
A different opinion is something I can handle from Lupica. But blatant hatred with nothing of importance to back his opinions on just gets annoying. I stopped reading Lupica articles long ago, he’s too frustrating.
On the ESPN bias, I certainly have seen it the last few days, only because Hank opened his mouth, and now they’ve been mocking the Yankees since then. But like I said yesterday, I see an east coast bias, not a Yankee or Red Sox bias.
BBB:Don’t tell me they used the footage of the Chass Wright game where Wright gave up 4 consecutive dingers one by Varitek.
I think people should take Gammons or anyone else’s reports at face value… people try too hard to look into things and create some kind of controversy. We all know that Gammons is from Boston so obviously we are hypersensitive and defensive to what he says sometimes. And as for ESPN being pro-Boston… I bet Boston fans were thinking otherwise when A-Rod was owning the show the day after they won the World Series.. or the 48 hours during the Joe Torre divorce. Sometimes I have to bite my lip and read on… but Peter Gammons is a great reporter and ESPN has done a lot for the NY-Boston rivalry.
bodhisattva—Thanks for that bit from your experience.
Out of curiousity, which Jersey paper did you write for? I’m a north Jersey girl myself, so mayhaps you wrote for one I read?
“LIsten everyone has there own biases and there is nothing wrong with it it is just important to know what they are so when you are listening or reading something someone says or writes you know that going in.”
Very well said, Gayle. I agree 100%
eww
Shea Stadium, where he managed the Mets, holds no special place in his heart. “They had rats as big as horses,â€said yogi.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/?8dpc
Jen: I saw that, and I WAS EATING at the time.
ThatWasMe: No, it wasn’t that game, and I had actually forgotten he was one of the 4; I felt so bad for the poor kid (Wright) that I pretty much blocked out all the details of that debacle. It was a game from the same series as the 4 HR affair, though, I think the Friday night game where the pen blew Andy’s lead, but don’t quote me…
What’s funny is, Varitek’s biggest moment against the Yankees all year was a throwing error that gave Yanks 2 runs and helped them finish off the sweep @ the Stadium in late August. Hmm, I wonder why they didn’t show that one! What better to convey Vagitek’s “importance” to the team?
Brian come on. Every single article he whines about Yankees payroll. He always mentions how much they’ve spent since winning a ws. And what a shock no mention of how much the Mets have spent!
Also when Johan looked to be going to the Yankees or Soxs he said 150 wasn’t worth it. Now that he is with the Mets, it is a lot of money but it is worth it.
He is a disturbed person.
Chris,
Excellent take and one that’s dead on.
The few days after the jackasses won the series, the A-Rod and Joe Torre stories RULED the sports air-waves and ESPN was right in the middle of every bit of it.
They had a 2-hour tribute to Torre immediately after he rejected his contract offer.
People see what the want to see. If they feel that ESPN is an anti-Yankee network, they will look for examples to reinforce that argument.
If anything, ESPN is both pro-Yankees and pro-Red Sox. Those teams get as much coverage as the rest of MLB combined. If it were up to them, we’d see a NYY/BOS ALCS every season.
BTW, wasn’t it the devilish ESPN network who aired seven-hour mini series of the “Bronx is Burning?”
Yeah, those guys really hate the Yankees.
BBB: My favorite varitek moment was the Yankee game, last season I believe, he run up to third to back up the play to third, in doing so leaving home open, Melky on third sensing the situation took off for home with Captain wobble-run Varitek in pursuit.
It was a beautiful thing.
BBB – I believe that the Red Sox had the best record in the AL re: Runs Allowed. Varitek is given a lot of credit for that stat (game preparation, handling pitchers, etc.). Is the praise disproportionate? Perhaps.
Re: The ARod fight. ARod was in the middle of his 4th FU when Varitek went after him. In the schoolyard, one expects to get swung at if you F bomb someone enough. If Manny was FU-ing Posada, and Posada retaliated, you’d be praising Jorge’s moxie, and saying that he fired up his team. A little objectivity, please.
Lupica is a hack. Never played a minute of any sport in his life. Always has to get the first word in on The Sports Reporters “I,I,I,I..But, but, but” “Please buy my new book.”
If Varitek wants to take a swing at A-Rod, be my guest. But at least have the cajones to remove the protective mask so A-Rod can take a swing back.
Brian: the problem Yankee fans have with Varitek throwing that punch (and a lot of other fans I’ve spoken too, even Yankee haters and A-Rod haters) was that Varitek threw a punch with his mask on. That’s just not cool. In a schoolyard, that doesn’t happen. And Posada wouldn’t throw a punch at a guy. The benches would clear before that would happen.
Brian, if Varitek had removed his mask before he punched Arod with his catcher’s mitt you might have a point.
Jennifer – We’re in agreement. The problem I would have with him (Lupica) is that he chooses topics where the Yankees are vulnerable. His bias shows up in his unwillingness to find more “pro-Yankee” topics. The anti-Yankee topics that he picks are straw men.
It’s not that what he writes is wrong. The lack of balance comes in his paucity of positive topics (towards the Yankees)to even the scales.
Thatwasme –
“THere’s no rules in a knife fight.”
ARod still had his bat, after all.
Brian, yeah I suppose Arod should have bludgeoned Varitek with his bat, that would gone over well.
Varitek was too big of a coward to even take his mask off. Instead he hid behind it like the little (you know what) that he is. Funny that he hurt his wrist hitting a-rod, despite the fact that a-rod had no mask on and he did and then had to miss the next couple of games.
A-Rod did not have a bat in his hands during that fight.
Brian: Of course that praise is disproportionate, and it’s also a hallmark of Saux fan delusion to credit the catcher for the pitcher’s performance, which is completely ridiculous. The Blue Jays pitching staff also performed very well last year, 2nd in the AL I believe. Was this because Greg Zaun is the most important member of the team? LOL. Or better yet, did the Tigers’ pitching struggle last year because Pudge isn’t well-prepared and didn’t handle his staff well?
Let’s just be real here, IF Varitek is of above average importance to the RS, it is only because Mirabelli is the most useless backup catcher imaginable. Not b/c of any of this handling pitchers well and game preparation garbage!
As for the fighting, I have no problem with Varitek throwing the first punch, I have a problem with him hitting A-Rod in the face while his own face was protected by his catchers mask. In the schoolyard where I come from, that’s what we call cheap fighting.
I think that we’re microanalyzing a baseball “fight” wherein Varitek pushed at ARod with his mitt, and ended up in a wrestling clinch.
Do you REALLY think ARod was going to swing, mask or no? Please. In the schoolyard, it doesn’t take 4 FUs before deciding to throw a punch. ARod is into subterfuge (“Ha!”), not frontal assault.
And A-Rod wasn’t going to brain Varitek with his bat whether he had it in his hands or not, cause he doesn’t fight cheap unlike some people!
Alex was walking down the line removing his elbow guard when v-tek kept going after him. I won’t deny Alex was cursing.
BBB – Obviously, I’m inclined to agree with you on Varitek getting so much credit for solid pitching. I like Varitek as a player, but I’m not delusional. He does a nice job, nothing more.
Brian- let me get this straight….RSN (lol) was upset with A-Rod because he said F/U 4 times (THE HORROR) and thus Varitek HAD to throw the first punch even though RSN (lol) says that A-Rod is all talk?? That only makes sense in RSN (lol).
bbb, are you thinking about Manny?
Brian, I’m not even sure what point you’re trying to make when you say A-Rod wouldn’t have taken a swing. He was arguing with the pitcher (I think it was Arroyo) and Varitek threw himself in the middle (as any catcher would to protect the pitcher) and then took a cheap PUNCH, not a PUSH.
Jennifer – ARod was threatening the Sox pitcher as he was going up the line. Varitek walked up the line with him to keep between him and the pitcher. The FUs were actually directed at the pitcher (safely distant, or so ARod thought), and Varitek took offense, and went after him.
Again, if Posada had done a lot of these things (protect his pitcher, confront a hated Saux), Yankee fans would have a plaque of the event in Monument Park the next day.
Say it ain’t so – here’s my last comment on this.
I wish it were a real punch, but it was more of a “baseball” punch. Unfortunately, baseball, unlike hockey, doesn’t have an established protocol for in-game fights. So we’re not going to agree on this one. Depends on who you root for …..
Note to Eric: It’s over.
Yankees should do the humane thing DFA him so he can maybe start fresh in a new organization during spring training.
Brian come on! Saying fu if threatening someone. Please! I have no problem with him walking up the line, i have a problem with him throwing a punch.
Brian, you defending the gutless sucker-punch is as ridiculous as if a Yankee fan defended A-Rod slapping the ball out of the pitcher’s hand (Arroyo again?) in the playoffs.
It isn’t a matter of whether or not Varitek should have punched A-Rod or not, we see players taking swings at each other at least once a year. All everyone is trying to say to you is that if Varitek wanted to punch A-Rod, he should have taken the mask off. That’s all. And that has nothing to do with what team you root for.
You guys make it sound like Eric Duncan was free to be claimed by all the teams in baseball and nobody wanted him. Well he was free to be claimed, but if claimed he’d have to spend all of 2008 on their Major League roster. Obviuosly, nobody would use a roster space all season for him. He needs AB’s. I’m sure if he was a minor league free agent and not a Rule 9 guy he would have been scooped up.
I just saw some highlights from the Boston/Minny game. Maybe Buchholz’s line shouldn’t be that bad. Manny went for a dive and roll catch. Well, we dove and rolled.
Jennifer – Varitek got ticked off and threw a punch at a guy who was hoping to yell FU to his heart’s content and then go merrily to first base. As in the case of “The 300,” “Be careful what you say, Persian!”
I couldn’t help myself on that one.
Gammons Sunday baseball column in the Globe was required reading in my house for most of my life. It was that good.
He wasn’t a good reporter. He was the best baseball writer of our era. Hands down.
Pete is right. Gammons knows everybody in the game and loves the game like few I know in the industry these days. He probably could have been a general manager at one point in his career.
The last 5 years, ESPN has gone bonkers as the marketing arm of the Red Sox and, Peter got caught in those crosshairs. Buster Olney has too. Both are great reporters but, when you are on TV, especially at ESPN these days, you have to follow the script. Like it or not.
Gammons has gotten treated royally by Red Sox ownership. Trust me, when you are treated like a rock star by ownership, its awfully tough to be objective.
Doesn’t make him a bad guy. It makes him human.
Some of the ESPN stuff is in jest. Most of it is not. Its agenda laden and it achieves its objectives. It puts eyeballs in front of the screen listening to Red Sox slurping and Yankee Hating. Its all good for ratings.
Face it folks. There are a lot more people that hate the Yankees than love them. ESPN plays to that.
Its just the way it is. Given what Gammons has given to the game, it doesn’t bother me as much as the swill Steve Phillips spits out of his mouth on a nightly basis. Its much worse than Gammons has ever said about the Yankees.
On a personal note, I was having some issues with a team in the Cape Cod League who reneged on a deal with my nephew for the summer.
Peter heard about it, and despite the fact I am a diehard Yankee fan (and someone he does not know very well) he went out of his way to straighten it out and my nephew is playing in the Cape this year.
That’s something I am very grateful for and he had NO REASON to do it other than wanting to see a kid get a fair shake.
Gotta give him props for that.
The ESPN stuff? People, take it for what it is and just ignore it. Its a clown factory in Bristol these days and that’s all its ever going to be.
You will get more petinent information on the game in this blog than you will from just about all of the clowns in Bristol.
Brian has V-tek never heard the word before. Come on, he said it 4 times, but he is a sox player and you will defend him to the hills.
I don’t know how Varitek does it, manage all those pitchers, get of the juice and tour with the Village People. He’s really something. Of course he wears his mask when he jumps people.
good stuff SJ; i think it’s important to draw distinctions between a disgruntled hack like phillips and a grand old man in his dotage like gammons.
“Again, if Posada had done a lot of these things (protect his pitcher, confront a hated Saux), Yankee fans would have a plaque of the event in Monument Park the next day.”
I would not have been happy to see Posada do any of these things in a manner which made him look like a punk. Fortunately, Posada is not a punk and doesn’t do things that make him look like one, so I guess I’ll never have to worry.
Gammons never says anything really overt (except the quote about the Yankees emulating the Sox by cultivating their pitching).
I may be sensitive (most likely), but it seems like there’s a lot to read between the lines when Gammons makes a comment about the Red Sox or the Yankees.
Varitek taking a shot at A-rod with his mask on was about as classy as Pedro taking a shot at Zimmer…. both were totally unnecessary and are actions that only a Red Sox fan could condone and celebrate.
Here’s the way I look at it, Mike.
Gammons does stuff for people in and around the game without fanfare. Calls a player’s father who is ill and wishes him well. Has enouraging words for someone who is struggling. Will help a kid he doesn’t know, but likes the way he plays, get in the Cape League.
To me, somebody of his stature does that, what do I care if he roots for the Red Sox. His good deeds far outweigh his bad.
Steve Phillips? What the hell has he ever done for ANYBODY but himself.
Brian Cashman kicked his butt as a GM during Phillips time in NY. He gets the ESPN gig, acts like a buffoon, and second guesses everything Cashman does.
Ridiculous.
For a guy who was a GM, you would hope he could offer some real insight into the game. He offers nothing.
But hey, what do I know. He employed Kirk Ramdomski but, “knows nothing about what he did” when he was with the Mets.
Riiiiiight Steve. We all believe that.
He says stuff so people can say, “Did you hear what Steve Phillips said”? Stuff so idiotic about the game, you wonder how in the world this man was not only once a GM, but a GM for a big market team.
Every coach ESPN hires for their football coverage get offers to get back in the game.
Does anybody realize Phillips has not received ONE offer to get back in baseball?
Its because the entire industry knows he’s a hack.
Peter Gammons isn’t a hack. He is the best baseball writer of his generation.
Put it another way, if Phillips was as good at his job as Gammons was at his, he would be able to get back in the game as an GM.
Geez, Ed Wade got a job again as a GM and Steve Phillips can’t!
That tells you all you need to know about Phillips.
When Harold Reynolds lost his job, Baseball Tonight jumped the shark. They also lost the one Pro-Yankee voice on ESPN.
Its why I just ignore what they have to say. I watch the games, form my own judgments and I don’t them reinforced by the clowns at Bristol.
Only an idiot hasn’t noticed what’s going on with the Yankees. Its why Buster Olney said the Yankees may be the “surprise team” in the AL this year.
Of course, he got blasted for that comment by Dana Jacobson. She was fresh off a two week suspension for her drunken Anti-Catholic rampage at Mike Golic’s roast last month. Another member of the clown brigade in Bristol.
SJ: that is a great anecdote.
There are so few people who love the game for what it is today…
BBB … I agree, Posada is not a “punk.” I think a lot of him.
ARod, on the other hand, has a bit of a reputation (even amomg ex-teammates). It’s no secret that most of the other players find him a little “0ff-putting.” You shouldn’t be surprised that he was the target of a little payback.
And you do Posada a disservice by saying that he wouldn’t have done the same thing in a similar circumstance.
mel: I wish I could have seen that. I love when Manny misses.
I feel like I’m in Heaven. Santana, Maine and Perez got knocked around. The Mets have 11 injuries on their roster after giving up their farm system this winter.
Buckholz sucked it up today and Schilling is out for at least half a season.
Meanwhile, the Yankees have scored 16 runs in their last 2 games, their 3 young pitchers dominated in their appearance and Pettitte + Wang were vintage.
This is a high.
I don’t know Brian. Re: Arod, it seems to me you only read what you want to read about him.
Robinson Cano, Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, Joba Chamberlain, Yonder Alonso (the University of Miami first baseman whom Arod took under his wing this off-season), Michael Young and Mark Teixiera are just some of the people who RAVE about what Arod has done for them in the game.
Even Jeter compliments Arod for the work he puts into the game.
Arod is a moody guy. Big deal.
He’s done an awful lot for players in the game. When you are as talented as he is, most players will find you oft-putting.
Jason Varitek is not some God to other players in the game. He’s as moody as Arod. Its why those guys don’t like each other that much. They are too alike in many areas.
Don’t get too caught up in ST results this early. Especially with pitchers.
Guys are just feeling their way around right now.
Nothing is more meaningless than ST results.
Whitey Ford used to stink it up every ST. “Somehow” he found a way to get outs in the regular season.
If guys are struggling at the end of ST, pay a bit more attention.
Now? Its meaningless.
“And you do Posada a disservice by saying that he wouldn’t have done the same thing in a similar circumstance.”
Saying Posada is too classy to take a swing at a guy who’s doing nothing but shooting his mouth off is a disservice?
Maybe not everyone is as peurile as you.
For a network that hypes itself as a leader of sports information and entertainment, ESPN goes out of it’s way to display a lack of objectivity.
With baseball banter, Tim Kirkjian, Dave “Soup” Campbell and Pedro Gomez (both hidden out west) are the most reliable, listenable, and trustworthy.
The regular members of Baseball Tonight are prototypical hoots fortunate enough to be in front of cameras.
*puerile
Brian
I have never seen a named player say anything about A-Rod being a bad teammate. Have you? Rumor says, unnamed sources say, Steve Philips says but what person in the game has said?
In contrast, many teammates, past and present have said complementary things about A-Rod.
What I think most players find “off putting” is the salary that he gets and the acclaim he has received.
While I think A-Rod has personality and esteem flaws, I think the microscope that he lives under, magnifies them considerably.
As long as the Yankees are winning and taking care of business on the field, that’s all that matters. There shouldn’t be any time to worry about what anyone from ESPN thinks, one way or the other.
ESPN is always going to lean toward whatever teams get the most attention, have the most fans, and most recognizable names. Namely, the Yankees and Red Sox. There really is nothing a Yankees or Red Sox fan can do to prevent it. IMO, aside from other non-biased national media, ESPN is the most accessible non-Yankees/Red Sox media source you can find. There is no denying that among the amount of content they provide there is sure to be some sort of objective opinion.
Pete,
Are cuts usually done on a weekly basis? Are all the players who weren’t cut today likely to be in camp for at least another week?
J Dawg: I agree completely!
Don’t quote me, I think it is when ever the manager feels like making a cut. Also if need be they can call up a player to fill in at any point.
I stopped watching Baseball Tonight after they fired Harold Reynolds. He was the only watchable reasonable person on that program.
Kruk is so consistently wrong on things it’s ridiculous. Then he will make a prediction and contradict himself two weeks later when ut turns out he is wrong. It is blatantly obvious the producers tell them before the show what positions to take. Then they are forced to defend these ideas in which they do not believe.
Phillips is not worth typing anything more than what has been already said.
As far as the hughes and Buchholz comparisons. Hughes is almost 3 years younger yet has more innings wins strike outs and better minor league numbers. So not only does hughes have buchholz in the stats he also is i repeat 3 years younger. End of debate. Also of note joba is 2-3 years younger then clay as well. when a prospect is 23 and makes the majors it is very good but when a prospect does it at 20 or 21 that is very rare
Bryan Hoch is reporting that it was Marcos Vechionacchi who was reassigned and said nothing about Nunez. Does anyone know who is correct? Were five guys reassigned?
anyone know who is pitching tomorrow?
You can’t get too crazy over ST results right now, though when guys that struggled a lot last year, like Bruney, continue to struggle, it does cause you to take notice.
(jumping in late as always)
I don’t have a problem with Gammons. Lupica, though, drives me nuts. I’ve stopped reading him except when I click on something by mistake. It’s not even what he writes, it’s HOW he writes—every opening paragraph of every column he writes is structured the exact same way. Every sentence is the same type, there’s no variety. It just grates on my nerves so much. Reading his writing makes me feel like I’m trapped in the It’s a Small World ride in Disneyworld.
Obviously, we like to see the stars perform well in Spring Training, but that isn’t the important thing. This is just about making sure everyone is healthy and ready to go when the season does begin. It’s to make sure that nobody feels any bad effects from getting back into the swing of things.
I was a big fan of Harold Reynolds on BBTN.
That show hasn’t been the same since HR, Kurkjian, Olney, and Gammons were mainstays night after night.
Young, Destrade, and Kruk all suck.
Pat – Re: Comments from ex-teammates of ARod. It’s something I read (SI, I believe) a few years ago. There were multiple examples of him being out of synch with his teammates. One example I recall is ARod constantly telling a veteran teammate (from the dugout) to “Take your secondary lead,” a piece of “helpful” instruction that was unnecessary, even demeaning. Later in the game, another player came up to the veteran and mocked ARod by mimicking him, “Don’t forget, take your secondary lead.”
ARod rubs people the wrong way. He is often “off-key.” This is no secret. It’s not just resentment of his talent or good looks (as he has opined). He is either too scripted, or too impetuous (his knock on Jeter). A lot of people find him impossible to warm up to. That’s a fact.
And I won’t even go into who is to blame for his retirement announcement in the 8th inning of a clinching WS game. Who else but ARod?
DDariane, I think Moose starts tomorrow.
“though when guys that struggled a lot last year, like Bruney, continue to struggle, it does cause you to take notice.”
Depends on the way in which he’s struggling. Is he getting behind lots of batters? Walking them? Missing his spots with regularity?
Bruney only threw 12 pitches (didn’t watch the game…I had a special lady over
), so either he was missing up in the zone and/or he was working on something with which he has poor control and it was NOT working.
oops … “retirement” should be “opt out.” I must have Clemens on my mind.
“This is just about making sure everyone is healthy and ready to go when the season does begin. ”
In the case of the bullpen candidates…no it’s not. These guys need to show that they can be effective. Obviously, getting worried NOW is overreacting. But if Bruney’s still having trouble throwing quality strikes in three, four weeks…
Moose gets the nod tomorrow, and hopefully he will be able to incorporate his fastball quite a bit during Spring Training. It’s been stated several times that using his fastball more often during the ‘06 spring was one reason that his velocity was higher during the 2006 season. He wasn’t able to use it much last spring and his velocity suffered greatly during the year as there wasn’t enough difference between the speed of his fastball and his off-speed stuff.
“He wasn’t able to use it much last spring”
Well, he basically didn’t get a spring training last year, and I think it’s really important for a vet like him trying to build his arm strength for the season. So, I actually think he’s a good bounce-back candidate, provided he gets the benefit of a full spring this year.
Pete,
It’s your blog, but I (and many other Yankee fans) could care less if “people in the know” laugh at Yankee fans who criticize Gammons for being a homer.
It’s what he is. Laugh away. We’re still correct.
I was from a major Gammons fan who watched and read everything that had to do with him. He used to be objective along with being one of the best in the business.
Now, he is the Red Sox PR man.
I wish we had a homer like him in the national media.
Instead we get Billy Crystal and Guiliani.
When minor league pitcher Daniel Bard was drafted a few years ago, Gammons did a piece about how the Red Sox out maneuvered the rest of MLB to get the top pitching prospect in the game who is a guaranteed future #1.
How savvy and smart they were to discover a gem that everyone else in the game missed.
Gammons’ pimping of Bard is just about the only reason I have any idea who the guy is.
Apparently, he’s not panning out like many of the other Sox prospects Gammons wrote were the next great thing.
He’s had similar proclamations about Red Sox prospects over the years.
For some reason, he’s more wrong than right when it comes to Boston.
He called Grady Sizemore way before anyone else in the mainstream media saw that coming, but when it comes to Boston prospects, they are all A+ steal of the draft, Theo’s a genius. The Red Sox do it the right way.
The Yankees outspend everyone and when Boston ponies up and pays more money for guy like Dice K, Gammons laments that the poor scrappy guys in Boston had to do it in order to compete with the big boys.
The fact that they outbid EVERY team by tens of millions on the posting fee was proof enough that they aren’t the pull up the bootstrap kids on the corner Gammons tries to make them out to be.
In his universe, they do it through scouting, yet they overpay for players all the time. Their whole rotation outside of Lester was acquired from free agency and trades. None of them spent time in the Boston minors.
For him to say the Yanks are trying emulate Boston with young pitching is a farce.
The Yankees have more homegrown pitching in the majors and on the way than Boston does, yet Gammons has to put his stamp on it saying we’re the imitators.
Theo didn’t trade for Beckett and most likeley wouldn’t have given what they gave up at the time. Theo wasn’t GM.
That trade alone was one of the most important reasons that team won a WS last season.
I understand the guy is an institution, but he’s lost his ability to filter which is no surprise given the company he works for.
ok, let me make it clear before we all have dis stupid discussion basically a-rod can kick varitek and arroyo a** any time he wants and he would not need no bat for dat. it was those two who started it and NEways last time I checked this was a yankee blog not a yankee blog with redsox thoughts in it
I really like Bruney. I want him to be good!
Throw strikes Bruney! Throw strikes!
Add Damon to the list of players SJ44 listed. Johnny made a point of saying that most people think of Arod as a great player, but what they may not know is that he is also a great teammate. I know Arod may say the wrong things sometimes, but when you are living under the microscope and have everything coming out of your mouth constantly scrutinized, it’s easy to have a couple bad quotes even if sometimes he is being misquoted. Case in point was how far people took what he said about Jeter’s “MVP season”.
On Bruney, I agree it’s a crucial time even though it’s the pre-season. Many of them are auditioning for their jobs, and their performance will drive how Girardi forms the team. How Bruney, Farnsworth, Veras, Ramirez, Hawkins, etc do in ST now will directly affect not just their job but also whether Joba will start or stay in the pen this season. So I’d say this is about getting guys healthy sure, but more.
Did anyone post about this yet?
“Hank Steinbrenner said there’s not an official plan yet, but former Yankees center fielder Bernie Williams will be honored by the team. “Obviously, Bernie is special to us,†Steinbrenner said.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap;_ylt=Au4XPFFGd7CGiHhxLcfKWAkRvLYF?gid=280302110&prov=ap
Wow: amazing how we go from Eric Duncan to minor league camp to Gammons and his disputed partiality to how much of a [insert word here] jason varitek is.
I got to agree w/ SJ’s take on Peter Gammons he use to be a reliable source but what he’s doing is not all because of him. I mean if your ESPN and not all of them because thank god we have some smart reporters left in our corner like a Max Kellerman who does follow the system as much as he can, even reaches out to Pinstripe PLus and Baseball America to back up his talk.
What gets me is stupid little comments example tonight I heard the Bristol Conn’ combo of Gammons/Kruk (who shouldn’t even have this job)/Olney basically rip our 3 pitchers in Hughes Kennedy and Joba talking about the experience factor, yet in the same breath they explained HOW TORONTO !! TORONTO PEOPLE !! have a dangerous team and a stud in Dustin McGowan, they ripped our OF defense and left the Red Sox D out of the equation, rip our depth and put Toronto, Boston, Detroit I kid you not !! on top of ours
John Kruk Mr.I’ve never been wrong predicted we won’t make it, Steve Philips an a**hole imo couldn’t wait to continue on w/ the Hank vs Henry oh and Joba what do you want to do ? stuff like that is what irks me and how Toronto all the sudden is so deep because the savior BJ Ryan and Ecstein is here.
Whozat, agreed about Moose being a good bounce back candidate. If this is it for him (only he knows), it would be nice to see him go out on a good note.
P.S. To whom it may concern and everyone else, there was a Roger Clemens sighting tonight. He was in attendance to watch the Rockets take on the Denver Nuggets.
Say it ain’t so – wow haven’t seen that about Bernie and it’s a big deal! thanks for posting.
I wonder how Bernie feels. I haven’t heard his side since he said he doesn’t considered himself retired and he’s mad about what Cash said recently about his music. Have I missed anything else?
as for Tor hooray Toronto you have a SS who finally won’t drop the ball and a 3B who will definitely have time in the DL !
Say it ain’t so: Hooray! Pete’s been saying it needs to happen forever!
I can stomach Gammons when he isn’t talking about New York or Boston. Every good FA or every trade rumor, Boston seems to have an edge. I also can’t remember the last time he’s been critical of the Sox or their players.
G. Love,
Very well put.
Great commentary as always, SJ. And bonus points for the Fonz reference.
Brandon: toronto actually has an excellent rotation. That said, their problem is that a) they can’t stay healthy, and b) their line up doesn’t exactly inspire fear.
I’ll give them props for the BP but the rotation is not deep and the lineup is not as good as it’s made out to be.
“hooray Toronto you have a SS who finally won’t drop the ball”
Actually…Eck is a pretty mediocre defensive SS. He’s a way lesser liability with the bat than other guys they’ve had recently, but he’s no defensive whiz.
That’s great news re Bernie, Say. As for the Yankees in 2008, I don’t care what anyone says, in my mind, the Yankees are the favorites to win the East. I expect at least 95 wins this year. Think about it, the only loss from last year is Clemens, and he barely helped. With a full year of Generation Trey and new energied leadership, the transition is complete. Of course, we have to listen to all the bashing until the 2008 team proves better than the last 7 Yankee teams.
“the rotation is not deep”
How so?
If Burnett is healthy, they have two really good top end guys and then two guys with ERAs around 4, and a pair of promising rookies jockeying for the 5th spot (litsch, janssen).
And guys like Chacin waiting in the minors to spot start if they need.
whozat I was being sarcastic I know Ecstein back in the day was decent now at his age he throws a ball to 1st it gets there tomorrow
if AJ is healthy, if Holliday stays healthy if Ryan stays healthy whozat, then the 3B Rolen if he stays healthy, if Wells stays healthy…there are alot of ifs on that team.
oh and w/ Gibbons there who the next guy he picks a fight with ? my money is on Rios or Rolen
“if AJ is healthy, if Holliday stays healthy if Ryan stays healthy whozat, then the 3B Rolen if he stays healthy, if Wells stays healthy…there are alot of ifs on that team.”
We weren’t talking about the whole team. We were talking about their rotation. Their rotation IS quite good, and pretty, if Burnett is healthy. And they have some depth as well, with the loser of 5th starter spot and Chacin. Halladay’s pitched over 220 innings the last two years…how is he a health risk?
Halladay doesn’t have a problem staying healthy. Accardo was fine filling in for Ryan. Marcum & McGowan are pretty good pitchers behind Burnett & Halladay.
whozat: I think anyone who follows baseball can agree that Toronto’s got a good rotation. I think they’ve got the same curse that Detroit seems to have in that their pitchers can never stay healthy. Halladay’s a health risk simply by playing for Toronto.
“whozat: I think anyone who follows baseball can agree that Toronto’s got a good rotation. ”
Brandon doesn’t seem to agree.
Anyone care to comment on Olney’s belief that Cano will hitting in the five hole this year? I could see it happening next year, but Cano hitting fifth is pretty intriguing.
Halladay’s durability has been a plus. The last time that he had an injury of any real note was in ‘05, and that was a freak thing, when he suffered a broken ankle due to a line drive going off of his ankle. I keep waiting for a time when the Yankees are able to figure him out and knock him out of a game early. Hopefully in due time.
Brandon also didn’t believe Santana would ever ever go to the Mets & couldn’t understand why Bedard or Kazmir would be traded in the division let alone the Yankees.
how is it a good rotation when probably 3/5 get hurt ?
that’s like saying Pavano,El Duque,Pedro and Mark Prior is a good rotation sure but will they make it through the season as a good rotation.
Brandon: I’m saying, barring injury, Toronto’s got a good rotation. Without injuries, Pavano, El Duque, Pedro and Prior are good pitchers. If you could prevent them from injury, they’d be good. The same is true of Toronto. Unfortunately, Toronto’s cursed.
Actually to correct myself, Halladay did have his appendix removed last season, but even then he only missed a couple of weeks.
“Brandon also didn’t believe Santana would ever ever go to the Mets & couldn’t understand why Bedard or Kazmir would be traded in the division let alone the Yankees.”
Yes. This is sort of my point.
“how is it a good rotation when probably 3/5 get hurt ?”
What are you TALKING about? How is 3/5 of Toronto’s rotation any more likely to get hurt than any other team’s?
Brian (Red Sox Fan),
Sorry but I’m late to the post. You made an earlier comment about the fight bet. A-Rod and Varitek. A-Rod got hit ,first. with Varitek’s mitt. Then A_Rod kicked the s*** out of Varitek with a headlock and several punches to the face. Number 15 and 3 of Boston jumped on the back of A-Rod to separate them. Dont take my word for it. Check it on mytube.com . persian(lol)
Buddy are you serious
I said I wanted Kazmir over Santana becaus e he is younger and soon will be a FA but that besides the point as for the Mets and Santana I said and I quote “He wants to come to NY” no one knew that the package Omar put was going to get it done. But never did I say 100 % that he would be a Yankee, I was against this deal anyway so IDK where that is coming from and I never wanted Bedard
thank you Andrea that’s better
thank you Andrea that’s better
“Unfortunately, Toronto’s cursed.”
How are they more cursed than anyone else? You’re seriously going to say that their rotation was more plagued by injury than the YANKEE rotation last year?
whozat-
You know your stuff & I respect you even when you call me out.
Brandon-
If I really cared I would search through your comments over the last few months, but what you are saying now is simply not the truth.
“You know your stuff & I respect you even when you call me out.”
Thanks!
I just like to have well-informed discussion on the board.
“I said I wanted Kazmir over Santana becaus e he is younger”
And continually ignored the fact that NO TEAM IN THE AL EAST WOULD TRADE THEIR ACE WITHIN THE DIVISION. It’d be insanity.
whozat: uh, no rotation was more cursed than the Yankee rotation last year. None.
But it seems that Toronto, and now Detroit, always have a problem, The Yankees don’t ALWAYS have a problem. And we like it that way
not to say we like others having problems. we just like the Yankees NOT having problems.
I digress.
I’M JUST MAKING IT CLEAR OF WHAT MY COMMENT WAS THANK YOU.
That is normally the case, however… two of the Yankees pitchers last year were acquired through AL East foes in Clemens and Mussina.
I’d say let Kazmir stay injured down in Tampa for all I care. We’re looking good for a few years with what we have!
wasn’t Moose acquired through free agency?
“Mussina”
Mussina was a free agent signing.
Sure, Clemens was a trade, but we sent them Wells and a useful reliever.
And Clemens was aging and expensive. Him and Kazmir are really not particularly comparable.
Yeah, actually Mussina was a free agent..
Chris-
Mussina was a free agent & Clemens most likely forced that trade, but if not, it is not the norm.
Toronto has a number of very talented young arms but it’s not accurate to say that there is no more concern regarding injuries to their staff than the average pitching staff.
Toronto’s young pitchers are at higher risk than most because of the way they’ve been developed and the workloads they’be been exposed to.
Toronton has not done a good job limiting workloads for a number of their gifted young pitchers. They’ve basically rushed them through the system to get them to the majors.
The biggest concern is with Dustin McGowan.
2005 IP – 101 2006 IP – 111 then in 2007 IP – 192
So they nearly doubled their best young pitcher’s workload between 2006 to 2007. He’s likely to be at much higher risk for injury.
Jesse Litsch:
2005 IP – 75 2006 IP – 158 !! 2007 – 187
So Litsch more than doubled his innings thrown between 2005 and 2006. Again, – not a great idea.
Sean Marcam:
2005 IP – 157 2006 – 131 2007 – 159
His workload looks ok.
On Chacin – I’m don’t know how you count on a guy who has had serious elbow injuries in the past. He looks healthy now but he is an injury risk until he shows he can throw more innings safely. He only threw 35 innings last year.
Accardo threw 67 innings last year. The year before 74. So if there’s any thought of putting him in the rotation now that Ryan is coming back it will be a major test for him.
And of course then there is the ever injury prone AJ Burnett. Good chance he’ll go on the DL at least once.
A lot of talent in the Jays rotation. But they’ve got a lot of uncertainty.
They’re young pitchers are at a pretty concerning stage regarding potential or past injuries.
wow. we all jumped on that. we are SAD.
“So if there’s any thought of putting him in the rotation now that Ryan is coming back it will be a major test for him.”
Janssen, not Accardo is the other back-end candidate.
“On Chacin – I’m don’t know how you count on a guy who has had serious elbow injuries in the past. He looks healthy now but he is an injury risk until he shows he can throw more innings safely. He only threw 35 innings last year.”
Sure. But considering him the 7th starter seems pretty OK. It’s not like they’re counting on him unless two other guys go down.
Speaking of bullpens… What’s our’s shaping up to look like by the All-Star break?
“What’s our’s shaping up to look like by the All-Star break?”
Way, way too early to tell.
“You know your stuff & I respect you even when you call me out.â€
Thanks!
I just like to have well-informed discussion on the board.”
Well informed discussion would suggest that you respond to the main point in a posting.
The point of my post was that the Blue Jay staff is likely to be more injury prone than most because of the work loads they’ve exposed their young starters to, Justin McGowan and Litsch in particularly.
To ignore the main point of my post and to make some marginal comment about Cassey Janssen vs. Accardo and Chacin being a seventh starter is really weak.
Especially after multiple posts prior where you went on and on about how the Blue Jay staff was no more likely than any other to suffer from injuries.
By the way – I didn’t bother to post numbers on Janssen because my point was made but he only threw 73 inning in 2007.
There is no way he can just slot into the rotation unless they also want to expose him to major injury risk.
Jason Varitek isn’t the most valuable Boston player anyway you cut it.
He’s a catcher who hits .250, and strikes out over 100 times a season. He bats 8th. You can find a number of catchers who “call a good game” who hit .250.
The most valuable players on the Red Sox are Ortiz, Ramirez, and Beckett. Varitek doesn’t even get an honorable mention.
As for the infamous fight, if Posada had thrown a shot at Mike Lowell with his mask on, I’d say the same thing I said about Varitek. Its cowardly to throw the first punch when you’re wearing a steel grate covering your head.
As BBB said, Toronto’s pitchers had some great starts like Burnett and Halladay, even from the younger guys like McGowan and Litsch. That doesn’t make Zaun the most valuable player on Toronto.
Andrea: You know what they say, great minds and all…
“By the way – I didn’t bother to post numbers on Janssen because my point was made but he only threw 73 inning in 2007.
There is no way he can just slot into the rotation unless they also want to expose him to major injury risk.”
Fine. Between Litsch, Janssen, Marcum, McGowan, and Chacin, I feel like they can feel pretty solid about the back three spots in their rotation. Do you really think they can’t get 550 innings out of those five guys?
Marcum…you agreed his workload is fine. 180-200 there.
Litsch made the jump a year ago. Given the increase, one would have expected him to have trouble last year…and he didn’t. Did he play in the AFL in 05? Winter ball? Perhaps the increase wasn’t as big as it looks. Regardless, he came through OK. 160 there, perhaps?
McGowan…I agree he’s a risk. So maybe he goes down after 100 innings?
Janssen could give 100, no?
So…we’re already there, aren’t we?
I kind of figured it went without saying that five guys, one of whom isn’t an innings concern, could cover three rotation slots.
Why are we already talking about another team’s rotation? There’ve been 2 exhibition games.
How many days til opening day?
With regard to to Gammons… it’s not like the Red Sox invented the idea of young pitching
Also, Janssen pitched almost 140 innings in 06. I figure moving back to that total would be fine for him.
Gammons as a talent evaluator is nothing more than ordinary. He does no extensive traveling to Boston farms such as Lancaster, California or Greenville, South Carolina.
He takes the information he’s given and runs with it to paint with high upside.
He’s never seen a Boston prospect he didn’t fall in love with from a distance. Scouting reports are his friend and source of information.
i think what people have to remember, too, is that above everything else, ESPN is a TV network devoted to sports entertainment… and it just so happens that the Red Sox are one of the hottest thing in sports, and they are going to cover it like they are.
if the Yankees won 2 of the last 4 world series, they’d be in the same position and fans in Boston would be crying foul.
Looks like the Yanks have lost confidence in Duncan ever making it. To be cut so soon isn’t a good sign for Eric.
Testing