In-game audio from Mike Mussina
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- March
- 3
Mike Mussina wasn’t too upset with his performance, noting that worrying about the results this early in spring training would be counter-productive. He also noted that four of the six hits he allowed came on two-strke counts.
“I didn’t have an out pitch,” he said.
I’m sure the many members if the Yankee Panic Society will proclaim that Mussina is finished. But you can make up a long list of pitchers who looked like bums the first week of March and did fine once the season started. The list of pitchers who looked great the first week of March and proved to be bums is even longer.
Here’s what Moose had to say:
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on Monday, March 3rd, 2008 at 3:44 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Don’t be worried…look at Johan Santana’s opening spring game. Means absolutely nothing.
perfect point Pete…A ton of premier pitchers in this league have gotten touched up in their first start of the spring. Nothing to worry about right now.
Pete is on Outside the Lines Right Now…..
Pete is on “Outside the LInes Right Now”……
I’m not panicky one bit.
Nice segment there on OTL, Pete. Your star sure is shining a lot these days isn’t it, bro?
While I agree it is not time to panic, I think it is safe to say that Mike Mussina 2008 is not Mussina circa 2006. I think he can be servicable this year, but I think this is his last year pitching for the Yankees. Hopefully he can hold it together with about a 5.3 ERA with 200 innings pitched.
ACK! HE’S DONE! HE’S DONE! WE’RE DOOMED!
…
…
…
…
Just kidding.
He doesn’t have an out pitch anymore. Period.
Pete,
Nice bit on OTL.
One thought. Somebody should tell Jonathon Marler its not unusual for brothers to run a sports franchise.
His statement that he “can’t see them (the Steinbrenner Brothers) being able to do this long term because I can’t see how this works out” is not accurate.
The Maloof Brothers have run the Sacramento Kings AND the Palms Casino, as well as other gambling holdings, successfully for years.
If they can run a 6+ billion dollar international, multi-tiered business model, I think the Steinbrenner Brothers can handle their “little” endeavor.
I thought he was done before this start. The thought of another long season of Mussina’s excuses isn’t very appealing.
Pete was just on ESPN…
Moose was Cy Young compared to Barry Zito, he of the $126M contract and 108.00 spring ERA.
I’m not panicking. I’ll be the last one to jump off this ship.
Can it be Yankee Panic Nation, instead of Society?
what should I tell ya the Yankees got some ptching talent.
Nice job by Dan McCutcheon. Now we get to see Mark Melancon in a save situation. That will be fun!
“I think it is safe to say that Mike Mussina 2008 is not Mussina circa 2006.”
How is that “safe to say”?
Go look at Moose’s ST numbers in spring 06. They were AWFUL. He had an ERA over 7. And then posted an ERA in the 2’s for the first several months of the regular season.
If he’s still getting plastered four weeks from now, then worry.
On the bull pen - depending on how people perform, I think they seriously need to consider trading Farnsworth.
The opportunity cost of keeping him on the roster just to keep him is too high given the innings caps on the young pitchers.
I’m not sure if trading him is possible because of the contract and I’m not saying this based on yesterday’s performance.
Quite honestly, I think they have better options in the pen amongst the arms they have to choose from.
I would like to see Veras, Albaladejo, Karstens/ Rasner and Traber make the team. Don’t know if they will pitch well enough to deserve it but I think that would be their best bullpen in addition to the givens (mo, hawkins, joba).
Having Farnsworth who doesn’t like to pitch in back to back games in the pen at the same time as Joba with the Joba rules puts a lot of workload on the other guys in the pen.
I would really like to see the most deserving arms make it in the pen this year - not just the guy with the $5.5 million dollar contract. They can’t afford to float him along anymore.
“While I agree it is not time to panic, I think it is safe to say that Mike Mussina 2008 is not Mussina circa 2006. I think he can be servicable this year, but I think this is his last year pitching for the Yankees. Hopefully he can hold it together with about a 5.3 ERA with 200 innings pitched.”
After 1 spring training game it’s safe to say what Moose will or will not be this year?
weren’t we just talking about the injury prone blue jay starters? from MLB today:
DUNEDIN, Fla. — The latest addition to A.J. Burnett’s extensive list of injury tales includes a car door and a manicurist. Shortly before arriving in Florida for Spring Training, the Blue Jays pitcher had an unfortunate run-in with his vehicle, rendering his curveball unusable.
Burnett smashed his right hand while closing his car door, breaking the nail on his index finger. The nail hasn’t healed enough to allow the pitcher to use his curve, and Toronto pitching coach Brad Arnsberg said it will probably be another 10 to 14 days before Burnett can begin throwing the pitch
SJ44,
Thanks for your reply re: bullpen/roster on the last thread.
Took a trip to the mailbox and it was a good one!
yeah i can’t wait to see melancon pitch SJ
Funny how Pete wrote the Yankees made a good move by not signing Santana after 1 bad preason start, but for an aging starter coming off a bad year we aren’t supposed to pay attention.
I don’t think game is (necessarily) and indication of Mussina’s 2008 season, however….
I don’t think that he’s going to have a good season. I think he’s found such a precipitous decline that there’s no turning back. There’s no fountain of youth to capture. I expect Mussina to sport a losing record for the Yankees.
The best thing you can say for a Mussina 2008 is that he might be able to eat up a bunch of innings that help the youngsters come along. He might be competitive enough in those innings to keep the team close to .500 in the #5 starter slot. That’s something of value. You can’t look at Mussina as a guy who will pitch a big game anymore. You can’t look at him as a guy who should get a playoff start anymore. He’s a #5 or #6 pitcher than can give you 175 innings if you’re lucky.
The black and white of it is that the Yankees’ season will come down to how effective Wang, Pettitte, and Hughes are with a little help from a rotating cast of characters in the other spots. Reason to be very nervous, but plenty of reason to be confident as well.
Agreed, SJ - I’ve been looking forward to that since seeing his name on the slate for today.
Pete,
Your insight is, as always, very good. Not to get too worried on the first few outings of spring training - sure, in general.
But, lets look at the bigger picture of the pitcher who just got roped.
- age 39
- had a 5+ ERA last year
- averaged 85 pitches per start
- had a 1.47 WHIP, giving up 188 H in 155 IP
- batters hit well better than the league average off of him: 311 BA and 810 OPS
We all love the Moose. But he is done. Time to move on and let IPK or one of the younger players take his turn. Time to move up to the booth if his ego can handle it.
Spokesman, Yankees Panic Society
SJ, interesting take on brothers running a franchise. I didn’t see Pete on OTL, have to watch for that. As for brothers, the popular media story is “How long can this odd couple last?” But we are talking about brothers, not just two partners. While I agree many partnerships go sour over time, I would think the family relation would make that much less likely. Also, don’t the Red Sox have 3 partners currently?
A little early to throw dirt on the grave of Mike Mussina.
Farnsworth? He has given several interviews this spring saying he has “no problem” pitching back to back days.
My take on Farnsworth? Clearly, Girardi has taken this on as a reclaimation project.
I think you have to give the new manager a shot at getting something out of him.
We have all seen the bad Kyle and the good Kyle. If Girardi can get something out of him, gotta give it a shot.
Perhaps Kyle will be more comfortable under Girardi than he was under Torre. Who knows.
I just think when the manager makes it a point to want to “fix” a guy, you have to give him that shot.
If it doesn’t work, you can deal him at the deadline when some of the more upside arms in the organization (Melancon, Horne, McCutcheon and possibly Sanchez) would be ready to go.
I don’t think Mike was horrible. I don’t think he was behind the count much, if any today. But like Mike said, he didn’t have an out pitch.
No need to panic i agree, but i wouldn’t give Mussina the benefit of the doubt either. He’s been bad for the last year and a half. It’s not like this is vintage Mussina who can be allowed a bad spring start or two. This is a washed up Mussina who has to do well in the spring to earn a starting spot in my opinion.
“weren’t we just talking about the injury prone blue jay starters?”
I freely admitted that Burnett is a huge injury liability.
But, let’s be frank here…he literally broke a nail. It’s not like his elbow blew up.
Yankees Panic Society was worried last year when Mussina was throwing 86 mile an Hour fast balls to Manny Ramirez and having a 5 Era
Yes Mussina had in recent yeara of rough Spring Training games but played good in the regular season.But unlike when he was in he’s middle 30’s he is now 38 going to 39 and unlike Maddux who throws like 84 mph,Maddux plays in the crappy N.L.West rather then Mussina who pitches in the best line-up teams in baseball A.L. East.
But maybe Mussiba can take what made Pettitte help him throw better what do you call it something Pavano won’t take because Pavano not a trader….HGH.
Hey, what’s LT doing in the outfield? Still lol at that comment by Reggie. Where they playing flag football or something?
Another bad error. Four errors today.
Now we see how Melancon works after a little adversity.
That’s the fun part of the spring. Seeing how the kids with upside like Melancon work in these type of situations.
Sometimes all this information is bad for us. Before the days of blogs and the like, we wouldn’t have known until ESPN Baseball Tonight or until the articles were published how a pitcher did. Now we know as he’s doing it.
Calm down. Moose isn’t worried. Why should we be? It’s not like he’s Igawa and happy with a college kid hitting a GS off of him after he walked, WP or HBP everyone in the park.l
“This is a washed up Mussina who has to do well in the spring to earn a starting spot in my opinion.”
So…you’d prefer him to be worrying about getting outs now instead of building up his legs and arm to put more velocity on his fastball?
That sounds like a GREAT idea!
If I were to panic about this, and I am not sure I will yet, it won’t be based on one bad week in March.
It would be based on his age, his decline, and last season… COMBINED with one bad week in March.
Let’s not act as if this Spring Training is in a vacuum.
*Were*
Oh look, McLovin has another Andy Pettitte HGH reference. How original.
You know, the first 400 times you did it, all of us understood your point.
Now, its just pointless.
You look helluva lot worse for acting like a two year old than Andy Pettitte does for taking HGH.
For the record, I hope he took another shot so he can go 200+ innings this year. If, for no other reason, knowing it upsets you so much.
AJ Burnett is going to spend time on the DL. For whatever reason its going to happen.
That’s part of the reason why J.R. Ricciardi publicly called him out last year and basically said he had no heart - he basically said Burnett won’t pitch through injuries that other pitchers will try to gut their way through.
The Jays have a deep staff. But they are brittle. What they did with McGowan’s work load last year was just plain dumb.
Melancon steps up, shakes off the error, gets the DP to end the game. Very nice debut in a save situation for the kid!
“Funny how Pete wrote the Yankees made a good move by not signing Santana after 1 bad preason start, but for an aging starter coming off a bad year we aren’t supposed to pay attention.”
You do know that Pete was joking when he made that post about Cashman being a genius right?
it would be nice to get 175 innings out of moose but if they have to go to the pen in the 5th and 6th inning every time he starts, that will just add to the pressure the innings limits will already be bearing on the bullpen.
You guys do know that the best way to jinx your own staff is to dump on another’s right?
Nice DP by the AG.
Interesting game. Nice ABs & good pitching*.
*You know what I mean.
raymagnetic
I believe he missed the sarcasim.
don’t feed him SJ
i really liked melancon really concentrating on getting that guy out. good inning from him
Can someone explain to me the thing about managers etc signing balls and giving them to the opposing manager during spring training. is this some sort of ritual. Saw it yesterday between Manuel and Girardi and then again today Cooper was signing one to give to Girardi.
Let’s not get too crazy projecting the season over a March 3 start.
If Moose pitches like this in late March, then panic.
Veteran guys take time to get going. Despite what some here may believe, he’s not fighting for a roster spot.
Let’s see how it goes as the spring progresses. Seems to me to be the only logical thing you can do.
They went about building the pen the right way this year. Avoiding commitments to high priced aging veterans was the best thing they could have done.
They have a lot of options and something will shake out.
Don’t know who will make up the pen this year but they are going to have good options and eventually will come up with something that works.
May take some time but the pen will eventually be a decent one.
Veras is the guy I’d like to see step up. Hopefully his command comes around. He has the stuff to be a nice set up guy if he gets his pitches over for strikes.
ok have a good day guys, thanks for the game
I wonder if Karstens is going to be included in the mix of possible starters. He was great last spring training, but because of injuries, he wasn’t able to perform as well last season. But judging by his offseason results, and so far during spring training, I believe Karstens should at least be considered for a starting role. What do you guys think?
“Go look at Moose’s ST numbers in spring 06. They were AWFUL. He had an ERA over 7. And then posted an ERA in the 2’s for the first several months of the regular season.”
Yowza, 7.32 ERA
On the flip side, Chacon sported a 3.67 ERA over 27 innings; Randy Johnson a 2.96 ERA over 24.1 innings
Tends to lend a little support to Pete’s 2nd to last sentence
Mark Melancon will be a contributor for these Yankees this year. Think July.
Did Gardner or Ajax play today?
“It would be based on his age, his decline, and last season… COMBINED with one bad week in March.”
I guess the point that I’m making is that this game makes me worry no more than last year did on its own.
And, given that last year he was unable to get his legs under him ALL SEASON, I’m not surprised that his velocity was down. Thus, I’m withholding judgment until I see how he does once he’s had a chance to get his 39-year-old body into game shape.
Make sense?
McLovin: Mussina IS 39. He turned 39 on 12/8/07.
The problem is, Moose didn’t put people away last year. Lots of damage came with two outs or two strikes. He couldn’t finish the job then and you have to wonder.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=mussimi01&year=2007
don’t worry guys he is still building up his arm strength and experimenting with arm slots! what a joke… Everyone laughed at me when I said mussina is done. ok who’s laughing now? go eat some crow…
don’t worry fellas. Moose isn’t done. You can’t realyl judge from one spring training start. He will improve. He just has to learn how to pitch differently now that he is older.
he needs to use more changeups, because right now, that is his best pitch.
“that will just add to the pressure the innings limits will already be bearing on the bullpen.”
I’m pretty sure that the innings limits aren’t going to be putting pressure on the pen. They’re not going to be pulling them early in their starts…they’ll get 100 - 110 pitches, like any other starter. They’ll just use off days and spot-starters to skip them and stuff.
I am not worried about Moose at all. I am expecting a 10 win/4.50 era out of him this year. If he exceeds that (which I am hoping for) then great. My hope is that he does not regress further from last years performance and figures out how to adjust based on not having the same stuff he did 4 and 5 years ago.
I am excited about Karstens. After looking at the box his he put in 3 innings of work today and only gave up 2 hits and 2 strikeouts. Era still at 0.00. I think this may have been only his second appearance, but these are good indications this early in spring when all the “rust” has has not worn off yet. I am rooting hard for this guy as I think he may be the long man that we need this year out of the pen. Good stuff!
So according to anti-pettite, arm strength is built up in under an inning?
Unfortunately, I missed Melancon’s inning.
Can anyone give me a summary of how it went, and what type of pitches he threw?
Can we please ignore this guy already. He is a joke. He doesn’t watch any baseball so he has no clue how spring training works.
In a related note Barry Zito, Johan Santana and Clay Buchholz are also done and should retire. That is all.
Blargh
Ignore him, if we ignore him maybe he will go away. He doesn’t know a thing about baseball. Now he’ll whine about one of two things, Pettitte and hgh use or Mussina and him stinking.
First spring start or not, it was 2007 Mussina in a nutshell: can’t finish anybody, too fat in the strike zone when he’s ahead.
People always talk about what a smart pitcher Moose is, either because he went to Stanford or because of his nerdy crossword pecadillos, but the truth is he’s made his millions with superior stuff, not guile. Now that his fastball is below average and his hook is not as sharp, even precision control isn’t enough, especially with his fear of the inside part of the plate.
To me he’s alot like ‘00 David Cone, the guy he was brought here to replace and never really has. He still thinks he’s a strikeout pitcher but he doesn’t have the stuff to make it happen. When guys like that start to fall apart, they fall apart fast.
It’ll be an early test of Girardi to see how long he sticks with the “proven guy.” Either way, Karstens, Rasner, Horne and whoever else are gonna get plenty of chances this year.
KQ - If Katstens keeps this up (which I think he will have to, to crack the rotation) it would not shock me it he surprises some folks….its still early though.
Jennifer:
Good point
I should go back to browsing over 2006’s spring training stats
Kyle Lohse went with a 2.42 era over 26 innings
A 40 year old soft tosser is just going to become a better pitcher once the season begins.
Moose doesn’t have an out pitch because the only place for an 80mph fastball is Little League.
“To me he’s alot like ‘00 David Cone, the guy he was brought here to replace and never really has.”
Really? He’s never replaced Cone? Tell that to his 100 wins as a Yankee.
I think that Mussina will have a very short leash with Girardi. Joe T. would have exhibited more loyalty to a vet (He did so last year before finally yanking him from the rotation), but Girardi won’t do that…and he shouldn’t. If Mussina can’t hit 91 - 92 mph., he can’t set up his other junk, which he always throws out of the strike zone. Major League hitters have been laying off his breaking stuff, and sitting dead red on his 88 mph. meatballs. There’s too much talent waiting in the wings to put up with that.
Chamberlain should be the 5th starter. Great way to limit his innings and a great way for the team to not use Mussina.
What does “eat crow” actually mean?
“Chamberlain should be the 5th starter. Great way to limit his innings and a great way for the team to not use Mussina.”
Moose will still have to pitch if this scenario takes place. Chamberlain has about 145 IP’s in him this year. That would mean if he starts the whole year he has about 20 starts in him. You still need someone else to make at least 12 starts and probably more. Is this concept too difficult to grasp?
My long response to whozat and SJ44-
“Gonzalez won’t make the team. Too many guys in front of him.”
Nick Green and Chris Woodward? I don’t think so.
“I think Duncan is on the team. If Ensberg hits, he will make the team because his bat against lefties could be a real plus this year.”
I also think Duncan is on the team. If thats true why do we need Ensberg though? Your reasoning is that Ensberg kills lefties, well so does Duncan.
“The pinch running thing is overrated. You don’t keep a guy on the team because of his legs. Its bat or glove but not legs in today’s baseball.”
Yes it is overrated but Gonzalez is perhaps the best fielding infielder the Yankees have. Who better to fill the utility infielder role?
“He’d have more trade value that way, which is what I think the best outcome would be for the Yanks.”
IMO best outcome is he is the backup infielder for many years.
“Among the three of them, they provide cover at every position except CF and Catcher. ”
That is absurd. Duncan can play a mediocre RF and 1B, he doesn’t have the range for LF. Betemit can play a good 3B, probably a good 1B but he is servicable at best in the middle. Ensberg can play 3B and probably 1B but we don’t really know.
Keep Betemit, Duncan, Gonzalez and you get good hitting against lefties (duncan) and righties (betemit) with good fielding at every infield spot and a 5th outfielder that can fill in for Abreu from time to time.
anti-pettitte - so Mussina is done?
OK. I’ll play.
who is your favorite team?
Is it the Yankees?
If so, and pretending Moose is done, what do you suggest the Yankees do?
Mussina’s problem for a LONG time has been that he hasn’t had an out pitch. Go back to the perfect game he was pitching against the Red Sox way-back-when and see what happened when he got two strikes on Carl Everett.
He and Wang need to learn a Splitty or something of the ilk.
My thing with Moose is not that he doesn’t a spot. He does and we need him. My thing with Moose is putting him in the third slot. I know, I know. There are IP and rookie issues, but there has to be a creative way to figure it out.
I thought I read that it might be Wang, Andy, Phil, Moose, and then Ian/Joba. They’re not lining up that way, tho. Oh well. It’ll all resolve itself.
TheKatzinthehat
knucklecurve is an out pitch
he hasnt had an “out pitch” since the Japan trip. THAT is the problem
mel what difference does it make what spot a pitcher is in? As the season goes on guys get skipped, there are rainouts, offdays, etc and it all gets jumbled anyways. The only time it matters is during the playoffs and Moose won’t be a starter then anyways (unless something unforseen happens).
TheKatzinthehat - 2 K’s on Everett and then carl got a hit.
It happens. what about the 26 batters before that at bat.
Some didn’t make it to 2k’s, and some did.
The ones that did, made an out as well.
You have got to be kidding me. so he got 26 out without reaching base and the 27th got a hit so he doesn’t have an out pitch?
Have you guys seen the recent pic of Nick Johnson? Holy sh*t! I actually think I’d take Giambi at 1B right now over him! haha
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/03/03/what-a-sight-nationals-first-basemen/
Come on Jennifer, clearly he would have had hundreds of perfect games if only he knew how to throw a splitter!
Not anymore, Patrick. Nobody bites on his breaking stuff, and its nearly always out of the strike zone (starts in, breaks out).
Everone sits on his so-called fastball.
*everyone*
“Mussina’s problem for a LONG time has been that he hasn’t had an out pitch.”
If this is true then it’s amazing that the man has managed to not only when over 250 games but also strike out over 2600 batters. Mussina’s even better than I thought!
john..
I was responding to the absurd post that moose lost his perfect game years ago because he didn’t have an out pitch. He is known for having a fantastic knuckle curve which apparently he couldn’t throw last year. If he can throw that pitch he will be better this year.
Andrea: Hmm, the only source I can find that goes on a decent length is wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt, or an ounce.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eat_crow
The gist of it is, an olde usage of ‘crow’ was an Americanization of humble/umble, or the innards deer/cow/other animals. Pies of humble were eaten by people lesser than nobles. Rather humiliating to dine on such food.
On some dictionaries, I’ve seen ‘eat boiled crow’ as the archaic version of ‘eat crow’. In that situation, boiled crow is apparently edible, but not tasty xP
I was joking…sorry for the confusion…
““He’d have more trade value that way, which is what I think the best outcome would be for the Yanks.”
IMO best outcome is he is the backup infielder for many years.”
Backup IFers of the kind the Yankees use are pretty easy to find. ARod, Jeter and Cano play every day. If Gonzo has a decent bat, he could contribute on an NL team, and would thus have more value in trade than he would on the Yanks. If his bat doesn’t turn out, then he can stay here and provide great D. But you won’t find out what his bat’s going to be by parking him on the bench in the majors.
“I also think Duncan is on the team. If thats true why do we need Ensberg though? Your reasoning is that Ensberg kills lefties, well so does Duncan.”
Duncan might kill lefties. He’s had part of one season in the majors…he also might turn out to be a bum. Ensberg has a long track record of hitting lefties well in the majors. If he’s over that shoulder injury that hampered him in 07, he’s ABSOLUTELY someone I want on the team and in the lineup. If he’s not, fine, get rid of him and keep some slick fielding IFer — but not someone who’d actually benefit from playing every day like the AG.
Incidentally, just because he’s an SS doesn’t make AG a base-stealer. He’s never stolen that many bases at any level.
Again, I dont think Mussina should be a lock for the 5th spot. If in a couple weeks his fastball hasnt gotten up in the high 80’s(which helps his other pitches) and is still getting shelled. Like he has in the last year +. Then i hope Girardi doesnt pull a Torre, but instead uses Karstens in that slot. Time to stop thinking we owe these under acheivers or has beens. Just because they are owed more money than the youngsters, doesnt mean they dont have to watch their backs. That also includes Farnsworth and Giambi,even though he looks good this spring. Just frustrated in watching players not lose their possitions even when hurting the team.
Patrick
It is a great pitch, and he can still throw it as well as anyone in baseball, but nobody offers at it.
I’ve been a long time admirer of Moose, even during his Orioles years. But, if he can’t get the fastball back, he’s done. It’s that simple, in my opinion.
Alberto Gonzalez is not a utility infielder. He is a SS.
He can’t play other spots in the infield. He also isn’t that great a hitter.
If the team was configured differently, perhaps he sticks as a backup SS.
However, you need a guy to be able to play more than one position along the infield. That guy is not Gonzalez.
You need more than one RH bat with pop off the bench. If Ensberg hits, he and Shelley gives Girardi more pop from the right side.
anti-pettitte - so Mussina is done?
OK. I’ll play.
who is your favorite team?
Is it the Yankees?
If so, and pretending Moose is done, what do you suggest the Yankees do?
——————
My fav. team is the yankees.
The yankees should start chamberlain right away. Spot start karstens whenever chamberlain needs a blow. Mussina on the other hand should be benched until he demands a trade to the national league…
Two problems with your theory.
One, Mike Mussina will not demand a trade to a NL team. Its his last year in the game and he wants to finish as a Yankee.
He has a no trade clause. He isn’t going anywhere and the Yankees aren’t going to eat his contract because he didn’t pitch well on March 3.
Second, starting Chamberlain right out of the gate insures that, due to innings limits, you don’t have him for the entire season.
By putting him in the 8th inning role to start the year, you are able to get a “two-fer”, as Larry Lucchino would say.
You get to build up his innings while also having him in a role that helps the team wins games in the process.
As he builds his innings, you may see him pitch 3 innings in a few games this year.
The beauty of it is, it gives the Yankees a lot of flexibility, while protecting Chamberlain at the same time.
John in Ohio:
I agree with your assessment of Mussina. I’ve watched him during his heyday with the O’s and some good years with the Yankees. Mussina always exhibited a good curve, good slider great knuckle curve and a 92-93 mph fastball with late life. He always seemed to have great command of the fastball. That command has lessened a bit recently. If he can’t throw in the high 80’s he is going to get hit hard. With a breaking pitch at 80-82 and a fastball at 84-85, there is not enough separation to make him effective.
SJ44 and others are right on - March 3rd is still too early to write Mussina off - although I’d be happy with him as a solid No. 5.
Joe,
If he can get the fastball to 88-90, with enough movement to keep hitters honest, plus bring back that slow change he had in ‘06, he can be an effective guy.
Curt Schilling was effective the last half of last year with an 85 MPH fastball. The Red Sox gun was purposely higher in his starts to mask how much he lost on his fastball.
He was effectively because the guy knows how to pitch.
Mike Mussina knows how to pitch. You don’t win 250 games, especially in the Steroid Era, without knowing how to pitch.
You give him the time in the Spring to figure it out.
By “effective”, I mean, 160-170 innings, a dozen wins and the ability to hold up his end of the bargain on the staff.
He doesn’t have to be an all star. If he can be what he was in 2006, that would be enough.
Is it still there? If he is healthy, I think so.
He needs his legs. Didn’t have them last year. Hopefully, he will this year.
anti-pettitte,
You believe that Moose getting knocked around in his first ST start is the clincher to your claim that he’s done?
LOL, learn about baseball… Here’s a start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball
I don’t know if he’s done or not but pitching 2 innings in ST is not the final decision maker and the time to tell people to “eat crow”. LOL!
I’m sick of all these young fans who know nothing about baseball claiming that this player or that player are “done”.
They’re the same ones who said Abreu was done, or Arod can’t play in NY.
Young and impatient fans spoiled by the Yankees success in recent years. They think every rookie coming up will be a superstar and every vet who has a down year is “done”.
Oh well. Some people never learn…
John,
Wait until Joba has a bad outing. Or Ian, or they call up Alan Horne and he walks Manny Ramirez to cost them a game.
Those guys will be next up on the DFA Train.
The bottom line is, baseball is a game of failure. How you handle it determines the kind of player you become.
Something the younger generation of fans simply don’t understand.
They are probably the same fans who declared that Eli Manning would NEVER win a Super Bowl.
How did that turn out?
anDy pettitte:
Your favorite team is the Yankees?
Well you must be 11 years old then. And if so, that’s cool.
If you’re a day over 11 and think the Yankees should “bench” mussina until he demands a trade…you need a clue.
You realize you are still paying him MILLIONS of dollars.
Would you demand a trade if you were getting paid Millions to save your arm and travel with the Yankees?
Mussina is a boarder line HOFer playing in the hardest division in baseball.
It was February 72 hours ago.
it snowed yesterday.
It’s March 3rd, and you claim Mussina is done?
did you watch him pitch or just look at the box score?
“…practice?”!!!
John - so last year was a great year for mussina, huh?
“Go back to the perfect game he was pitching against the Red Sox way-back-when and see what happened when he got two strikes on Carl Everett. ”
in the history of this esteemed blog, this might be the dumbest comment ever posted. and that is really saying something.
wow.
“I was joking…sorry for the confusion…”
and this is what i get for posting without reading.
actually, if it was a joke, it was pretty good. TOO good. that was the problem.
sorry about that. well done.
Mussina’s fastball was hitting 91 just last Sept after his demotion. He doesn’t have an 80 MPH fastball as some have said, when its slow its around 86. He needs its around 89-90 IMHO.
I think he needs a new junk pitch, or do something else to adapt. When he pitches under 90 he is “done”, but there are MANY old ( I mean over 40) starting pitchers with worse stuff and similar results who get a pass. Mmaybe he just needs to try to be a groundball pitcher, I dont know.
Forget doom and gloom. I’m feeling even more optimistic than our resident optimist.
In fact, I want to be the first on the blog (that I know of, at least) to predict that this is the year we win it all.
I think we’ve got the perfect blend of veterans, particularly those in their last year of their contracts who know this is their last, best hope for a ring, plus great kids who don’t even know how much pressure they’re supposed to feel. Add in a long-overdue new manager, who absolutely won’t tolerate complacency and will have this time prepared and fired-up for the post-season, as well as a deep bench and farm system to fill-in for the inevitable injuries, and I think we’re in for a magical year.