Tampa Bay’s lineup
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Mar 08, 2008 
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Will this be David Price’s first pro inning?
Won’t this be David Price’s first professional inning?
Sorry for the duplicate.
Glad we have Baseball to watch on this rainy washed out Saturday!!!
I posted this comment about Veras and the bullpen in a prior thread but didn’t see this new one. Sorry for the repost:
I’m still not writing Veras off. I think there are two questions with him:
1. Was 2006 a true break out year for him? That year in AAA he had outstanding control and he got a call up to the majors. The yankees were very excited about his stuff and thought he was going to be a part of the pen in 2007 – and then he had elbow surgery.
In 2006 as a 25 year old at AAA he threw 60 innings out of the pen and had good control – his walks/9 was 2.8. His WHIP fell to 1.17. His K/9 was over 10 as you might guess.
Those were all substantial improvements. But with the surgery he wound up having its still difficult to discern whether it was a true step up or something he’s not likely to repeat.
2. Where is he in recovery from his elbow surgery? He had bone chips removed – so its not TJ. But with elbow surgery velocity often comes back before command. He was throwing very hard when he came up at the end of 2007 but his control wasn’t so good. Even the rehab stints he did in the minors his control was much worse than it was in 2006.
I’d have to think coming back from the surgery he was still off last year.
So I think the question with him is how much can we expect his command to improve as he continues to throw more innings since the surgery vs. how much of this is just Veras not having the skill to throw consistent strikes.
I was hoping he’s have a good spring. With him I think only time is going to tell. He may need more work in AAA to get back to the form he was in 2006. Or the form he showed in 2006 may have just been an outlier in performance.
“Won’t this be David Price’s first professional inning?”
Yes. This is his debut.
CB – Thanks for the info on Veras.
“So I think the question with him is how much can we expect his command to improve as he continues to throw more innings since the surgery vs. how much of this is just Veras not having the skill to throw consistent strikes.”
This is an excellent point that I either didn’t know, or had forgotten because I am old
Thanks!
“Look at Brian Bruney at the tail end of 2006. Whatever he was doing then, he’s not been able to do since.”
A point by Joe from a few threads ago.
Joe, if you look at Bruney’s peripherals, you’ll see that he’s been the same all along…it’s just that batters didn’t yet realize how sporadic his control was. He still walked a lot of guys that season, it’s just that the more free-swinging hitters were still swinging. Now, they don’t, unless it’s just GROOVED. And then they hit it out.
If you remember his performances that year, he was always behind guys. He’d get to 3-0 or 3-1, and then manage to come back to K the guy. Now, guys just wait him out because they know he can’t throw three quality strikes in a row — or, he lays one in and they crush it.
Early as it may be, the Yankees are best served to pay attention to all they see in spring training games with the Rays.
Aside of being an AL East opponent, many analysts see the Rays of being on the brink of a team to be reckoned with.
They are no longer considered pushovers.
Anyone know how the redsox youngsters are doing? I just happened to check out yesterday’s game, and noticed Buchholz had 3ER in 3 innings, giving up 2 homers and going 0-2.
Which, of course, makes me smile
Saw an article on Joba in the NY Post. The Yanks are worried about him keeping his focus amid his new found celebrity status.
Let’s go Tampa Bay!
The overhyped Boston youngsters (courtesy of Gammons) are not having an easy time of spring training at this point which lends credence to the fact that Boston does not have the powerhouse pitching staff that some analysts have previously thought.
After Beckett it drops off considerably.
- Will Matsuzaka live up to his hype in his 2nd year ?
- Can Wakefield at 41 have back problems again ?
- Can Lester find the strike zone and go more than 5 innings ?
- Will Buchholz make the opening day roster ?
- Can Tavarez and Snyder keep everything afloat until Buchholz and/or Colon are ready ?
- Is their bullpen up to Papelbon questionable ?
By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist | March 8, 2008
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. – Could everyone take a cold shower and calm down a little bit about the 2008 Red Sox?
The Sox are good, no doubt about it. But this attempt to anoint them as the 1927 Yankees of the new century worries me.
Go to a news rack and check out the baseball pulp magazines. Just about everyone likes the Sox to finish first and win the World Series. Talk to citizens of Red Sox Nation, particularly the ones who think David Ortiz is the first lefthanded slugger in franchise history, and you get the feeling that a 115-win season is expected.
Two new books (at least) are scheduled to hit stores this spring: Michael Holley’s “Red Sox Rule: Terry Francona and Boston’s Rise to Dominance”; and Tony Massarotti’s “Dynasty: The Inside Story of How the Red Sox Became a Baseball Powerhouse.” Whoa. Dominance? Powerhouse? (Gulp) Dynasty?
“I’d call that poetic license on the part of the authors,” says Sox president/CEO Larry Lucchino.
Since when do two championships in 89 years constitute a dynasty? Have we all forgotten that the Sox trailed the Indians, three games to one, in the American League Championship Series after losing to the Tribe at the Jake on the night of Oct. 16?
“We were nine innings away from being eliminated,” notes Mike Lowell.
The Florida Marlins won World Series in 1997 and 2003. That’s two in seven years. Why no dynasty books on the mighty Marlins?
This is not to be negative. The Sox have won twice in the last four years and they appear to be the best team in the American League at this hour. But astute fans with any kind of memory know how hard this is. The idea is to win enough games to be one of the eight teams playing in the postseason tournament. Then you try to be the hot team. The Sox have pulled it off twice since 2004, but they had narrow escapes both times.
The Sox are good. No doubt. They have the kind of relentless lineup coveted by Theo Epstein. They have depth and experience in the starting rotation and bullpen. They have a dominant closer, a good bench, and a manager who knows how to get the most out of his players. But like any team, they are susceptible to injuries, slumps, and old age.
“You need good health and good luck, just as you need good talent,” says Lucchino.
Here’s some news for you nouveau fans who came on board in 2004 and remain blissfully unaware of what it’s like to struggle and wait: The Detroit Tigers are really good. The Indians are good. So are the Angels, Mariners, Blue Jays, and, yes, the New York Yankees are still to be taken seriously.
“Expectations are a lot higher,” acknowledges Alex Cora. “The first question I got last year, after the plane ride home from the World Series, was, ‘Are you guys gonna win it again?’ ”
Boston’s Too-Great Expectations are easily explained. Much of it has to do with the way the Sox finished. After falling behind the Indians, they won their final seven playoff games by an aggregate score of 59-15. It was 7-1, 12-2, and 11-2 over Cleveland, followed by 13-1, 2-1, 10-5, and 4-3 over Colorado. Absolute carnage. On the grandest of stages. We were left with a memory of a team that looked like it could play until Christmas and never lose. Apparently, this caused a number of fans to forget about the daily struggle that is baseball.
“I think people expect us to win every single game,” says Kevin Youkilis.
Not going to happen, people. The Red Sox will lose some games this year. Every team in major league ball averages at least one loss every three games.
Bet you spoiled newbies have no idea that the 2001 Seattle Mariners were eliminated by the Yankees in the playoffs after winning 116 regular-season games. The 1969 Orioles won 109 games, then lost the World Series in five games to the miracle Mets.
Again, the Sox are good. But they are not far better than all the other teams.
“Anyone who thinks we are that much better just doesn’t know much about baseball,” says Youkilis. “There’s a lot of great teams out there. We feel we can match up with them and we feel we’re a better team top to bottom, but don’t forget what happened to the Patriots.”
It’s nice to have so many fans associate the Red Sox with clutch play and championships. Nobody misses the angst that dogged the team for 86 years before the miracle of 2004. But it’s important to remember that there are 29 other teams in baseball, several with big payrolls, stocked with great lineups and a few healthy arms. The Sox are good, and if they’d acquired Johan Santana, they could have been the best Red Sox team of all time. More than most teams, they are protected from the inevitable land mines on the path to 162 games. But they are not a slam dunk.
“Our job in management should be to control expectations,” says Lucchino. “I suppose a little bit of excess is inevitable, as long as we don’t fall victim to it ourselves.”
The Sox are good. But they are not a dynasty. Not yet. Not even close.
Not that I am an expert on dynasties…but I think there should be a back-to-back championship run in there as well.
I’m interested to see Tampa. Everyone’s saying lots of good things about them.
Looking forward to seeing Price, he could be in the majors this season. Also, PETCOTA projects the Rays to win 89 games! I don’t think they will win that many but I do think they will be above .500. Imagine if the Rays picked up Bonds, that lineup would be insane.
this is the umpteenth time i’ve heard how tampa is reborn, all new, stocked with young talent are ready to become a force. why do ppl always have to build them up from dogs to a “team to be reckoned with.” they’ve never finished over .500!
maybe if i heard people saying, yeah, these dogs are marginally better and i think they can sneak past the doggier O’s and maybe even finish over .500 this year, i’d belive it more than this constant nothing to contender BS i have heard so many times before.
tampa sucks. they’re never going to be able to keep their players. too bad, so sad.
nice bullpen the Tampa Bay Rays have.
“The Detroit Tigers are really good. The Indians are good. So are the Angels, Mariners, Blue Jays, and, yes, the New York Yankees are still to be taken seriously.”
“Still to be taken seriously.” Is that like ‘Honorable Mention’ or something?
well Y’s guy you certainly have a good point there, but think about how the tigers made a dramatic turnaround in 2006. being first up in the draft can sure make a difference. they have very good position players and their pitching staff looks pretty decent this year. i wouldn’t write them off
I agree with Andrea – I’d even go so far as to say I’m excited to see them this season. After being perennial cellar dwellers, they seem to have the makings of a decent team. I don’t think they’ll be able to compete with a healthy Boston or New York team, but they should be able to give Toronto a run for their money in third, especially considering the injury woes the Jays are having. Hopefully we’ll have two races to watch in the AL East (that is, if you consider a competing for 3rd a race)!
at least our pal anti-mussina is negative about everything, not just the Yankees.
“i’d belive it more than this constant nothing to contender BS i have heard so many times before.”
No one’s calling them a contender this year, I don’t think. But, they definitely have an ace, they have high-upside arms in two or three more rotation slots, and they have a lot of young, excellent hitting. SS is weak, as is C. And their system looks like it could produce several more high-end talents in the next few years.
The media likes a story. That’s why many pundits perennially project the Yankees to lose. That’s a story. “Yankees to contend once again” is boring.
There’s no downside to making a dark-horse projection. If you’re right, you’re a genius. If you’re wrong, no one notices. So, I’m not surprised that a lot of people are picking them to make some noise this season. A lot of the pieces are there. They’ll hit you, and they’ll throw some talented starters at you. I’m just hoping that Joe G will figure out a way (better prep for the vet hitters, perhaps?) to avoid the sucking-against-rookie-pitchers that has plagued the team for the last several years.
thats because torre kept telling his players to sleep extra instead of practicing. torre just wanted to get through the season, get bounced in the 1st round, and be paid. good thing he’s gone.
Today’s game is on YES and on WCBS radio 880.
Looking forward to seeing what Mussina does today. I am sure that will evoke a lot of posts here.
“I don’t think they’ll be able to compete with a healthy Boston or New York team, but they should be able to give Toronto a run for their money in third, especially considering the injury woes the Jays are having.”
the Blue Jays if healthy may have the best pitching in the AL – of course, their health is a big qustion mark but I certainly wouldn’t take them lightly. Tampa Bay looks to have the best team they’ve ever put on the field this year, you would be foolish to overlook them as well. This isn’t 1998 – we’re not going to roll over anyone & everyone (neither is Boston for that matter). I expect this to be a legit fight to the finish (for 3 – possible 4 teams in this division). Let the press & all the ESPN homers hype up Boston as some kind of modern day Dynasty (go back to back then we’ll talk). I like the Yankees as the underdog – we seem to respond well to that. Let Boston choke under their overwhelming expectations.
I’m not making a dark horse prediction or anything, just reporting that PETCOTA projects the Rays to win 89 games. Those projections have nothing to do with hype or whatever, its just straight numbers. I think that projection will not come true but it just goes to show that the Rays really do have potential.
(Patrick–it’s PECOTA. I think PETCOTA is the extra advantage Padres pitchers have due to the dimensions of PETCO Field.)
“I’m not making a dark horse prediction or anything, just reporting that PETCOTA projects the Rays to win 89 games. ”
I didn’t say you were…I was saying that members of the media do that frequently.
The thing with PECOTA is that it works least well for young players, because it relies on track record of the player in question and comparable players. So, it’s certainly true that the Rays have a lot of talent and, if things fall their way, could make a lot of noise. That said…well, they have a lot of good hitters but a pair of really quite weak bats in the bottom of the order. So, we’ll see.
Game at what time?
I wanted to comment on Pete’s previous thread and remarks related to Vizcaino’s hurting elbow and the use of relievers. I know it is off topic but I don’t care.
Pete you seem to suggest that Vizcaino was overused bc he was one of the few relivers that Torre trusted with a game in the balance…you also suggest that Girardi may succomb when faced with the pressure of managing in NY.
Your statement is a load of crap…Torre overused relievers like Vizcaino and Proctor (Villone, Karsay, Sturtze) bc he put them in games when the Yanks were 3 runs up and they weren’t needed. Lets not even discuss all the times he made these relievers warm up and then never use them.
Everyone in baseball knows that you can throw a sucky reliever into a game when you have a significant lead and 90% of the time you will get the win. That explains the success of Todd Jones or Joe Borowski. They suck but statistics show they will still close out the game wen there is a big lead.
Torre seems to be the only one who never understood that fact. I hope that Yankee fans and mangement are mature enough to accept a few blown losses by the likes of Veras, Ohlendorf etc. They have to realize the other strategy leads to tired relievers and 1st round exits