Wrapping it up from Fort Myers
-
- March
- 9
The story of the day was the lingering Rays-Yanks feud. Hopefully it’s settled on Wednesday and that will be that. Joe Maddon looks pretty silly, going all blood and guts in spring training.
The story on the field was Phil Hughes. Once nearly a Twin, Phil Franchise dominated the Minnesota lineup with excellent control of his fastball, a tight curve and a changeup he threw effectively the few times he tried it.
We don’t know for a few years whether the Yankees were right to hold on to Hughes and leave Johan Santana for the Mets. But Hughes looks every bit a solid No. 3 starter at the age of 21. What is he going to be three years from now?
We have a long drive home ahead of us. Check back with you tomorrow.
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on Sunday, March 9th, 2008 at 4:40 pm by Peter Abraham.
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You wonder what Bill Smith was thinking about watching Hughes pitch today.
He could have had him if he didn’t get greedy.
If Hughes has a big season, and a bigger career, Smith’s inability to pull the trigger with the Yankees on the Santana deal may be the thing that costs him his job.
He had to have a sinking feeling watching how free and easy Phil threw today.
As far as Wednesday, as I said in the other thread, the Yankees need to drill the Rays best player (Crawford) and then we see how far Maddon wants to take this thing.
I’m sure if Crawford’s wrist was in a cast and he was going to be out for 2-3 months like Cervelli, he wouldn’t be chirping so proudly about the play.
Its payback time and hopefully the Yankees do what they have to do on Wednesday. If they don’t, then they can’t complain any longer about the hit.
Even if Phil doesn’t outpitch Santana, it was the right thing to do.
Maybe it’s the female in me but I’m really not all that interested in payback. I like it when we show the class that we’re supposed to have. With the young guys, especially…the don’t need to prove they’re old school.
Though I’d bet Joba is.
The unwritten rule says the Rays should be expecting some sort of a ‘thank you’ in return. I would not have Joba do it. I agree with SJ on who gets the call to plunk someone on the Rays. Have Farnsworth just do it once and get it over with, and hopefully both teams can move on with no further incident.
Partly because Farnsworth can throw 100mph, partly because their hitter would have to be suicidal to take it any further with Farnsworth, and partly because you don’t want to risk someone bum rushing the mound if it’s Joba tattooing his brand of laser beam into someone’s ribs.
Joba can’t be the one. He’s already been painted unfairly as a headhunter. Can’t give merit to the label.
Make one of the guys who have no ability to throw over the plate. Bruney? lol.
Its not about showing class. You can’t let a team hurt one of your players in a dumb way and do nothing but complain about it.
It goes against the baseball code.
You have to pay them back. Just drill their best player and hopefully Maddon moves on from it.
If he wants it to linger, then you keep drilling guys.
Sooner or later, he will get the message and it will stop. If not, then he will have his own guys on the DL.
This reminds me of the Yankees-Orioles matchups when Davey Johnson was managing the Orioles. He would have Armando Benitez and some of his other pitchers attempt to send “messages” to the Yankees.
During one game, after he gave up a HR, Benitez drilled Tino right in the small of the back with a pitch.
Darryl Strawberry came flying out of the Yankee dugout after Benitez and he ran in his own dugout trying to avoid Strawberry.
Strawberry actually chased Benitez into the Orioles dugout and the entire Baltimore team wanted no part of Darryl.
It was the last time an Orioles team pulled that crap against the Yankees.
JMO but, that’s what has to happen here. If you just complain about it and do nothing, you come off as whiners.
Its best to get payback then it will end. That is, if Maddon has any sense.
hey anyone know when MLB teams can start posting for Japan arms again ?
“Maybe it’s the female in me but I’m really not all that interested in payback.”
Is it payback, or is it standing up for yourself? That’s the debate, to me.
When someone shoves you, do you walk away? If there are other bullies around, they just got the message “hey, I can push that kid around and there will be no consequences.” Or, do you push back and show that you won’t be intimidated by some punk? You don’t escalate, but you stand up for yourself.
I can see the points to be made on either side of the issue.
Farnsworth has to be the guy. He not only loves this stuff. He’s 6-5, 240. Go back and check out some of the body slams he has laid on guys in his career who have charged the mound.
That’s how I know it will end if he is the guy. Nobody wants any part of Farnsworth. He’s crazy for this stuff.
Plus, its a good way for him to score some points in the clubhouse.
International posting anyone ? I’m interested to see if the front office is paying attention to two LHP in Korea ?
“hey anyone know when MLB teams can start posting for Japan arms again ?”
That’s not how it works, Brandon. A Japanese team decides it wants to post a player, and that whole closed-bidding posting process happens.
It happens early in the offseason when it does happen, and it doesn’t happen every year. Also, some players fulfill their duties in Japan and come over as unrestricted FAs. Matsui, Fukudome and Kuroda all did that, as have others.
I just did a quick Google search on the topic to find some references. It wasn’t hard.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Posting_System
SJ: I respect your opinion, which is probably the prevailing baseball opinion, but on a personal level I disagree.
Whozat: I see what you mean, but I see it more as payback. Standing up for yourself is when the guy on the other team plunks you for no reason, not when he slides into you which is (or may have been) instinct and not thinking before you ask.
Guys, I was just commenting that I could see Joba as being old-school…I certainly don’t think he should be the one to retaliate, though!
“International posting anyone ? I’m interested to see if the front office is paying attention to two LHP in Korea ?”
Posting is not a system that governs all international transactions. It’s only for NPB -> MLB.
Also…if the Japanese leagues are like AA/AAA ball, then the Korean leagues can’t be even that good. So, I’d be skeptical of numbers put up there.
I agree with you, SJ44. Bill Smith got greedy and couldn’t pull the trigger when he had to.
I also agree with you on the Rays thing. Drill their best player (Crawford) and show them ‘we’ protect our players and cannot be messed around with.
@ Rebecca
It’s not about payback, it’s about protecting your players. At least to me it is.
I agree, SJ, Krazy Kyle’s the perfect candidate. Girardi’s stuck out his neck for him. And no one will rush the mound.
“not when he slides into you which is (or may have been) instinct and not thinking before you ask.”
If his Maddon hadn’t taken the stance that he has, ok. But, it’s clear that this isn’t a kid being overzealous…Maddon wants his team playing like this in the spring. Even in the ninth inning of a game that doesn’t matter that you’re already winning.
whozat give me your take on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cXhs0y-3u8&NR=1
Jung Jung Ho 20 yrs. old
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soLLKOvw-D4&NR=1
Kwon Hyeok 23 yrs. old
Its not the first time they have done it this spring. Crawford did it to a rookie catcher for the Twins the other day.
Its probably why Gardy didn’t take a side on the matter. He was ticked off to no end the other day when his catcher got drilled by a Rays player.
Several yyeears back when Giambi might have still been juicing, someone asked him if there was anyone on the team he wouldn’t want to mix it up with. He only said Farnsworth.
I remember that Benitez/Tino incident. A few guys really went after Benitez. I think Graem Lloyd (he was bigger than Strawberry) was right behind Darryl going into the Orioles dugout. Someone else almost as big was after him before he ran for the dugout. When the dust settled, Tim Raines hit the next pitch into the upper deck. It all seemed to pull the team together.
I’ve wondered why that hasn’t happened in Fenway. Sure, there have been a few scrums with them but nothing like a WWE event. And Boston still has guys drilling Jeter & A-Rod.
Looks like Korean players can be signed just like other international free agents. I dunno what the rules are about when that all can happen…I know the Yanks signed some Australian kids this offseason, but I feel like there’s some in-season period where they do all the latin american signings. I may very well be wrong about the last part, though.
where the hell is my post !
“And Boston still has guys drilling Jeter & A-Rod.”
They always drill first, and then the benches get warned and ANY pitcher who hits someone after that gets automatically tossed. Which makes no sense…they don’t warn if they think it was an accident. They warn if they think it was on purpose. So…the message from MLB is “that was on purpose, which is ok because you did it first…but if anyone ELSE does that, even by accident, they shall be punished!”
What? If the ump thinks it was on purpose, toss the guy. If he doesn’t, don’t. End of story.
My post is missing too.
Anyway in case anyone wants to watch, Hughes,Joba and Kennedy going to be on Mike’d Up tonight.
dammit I can’t post the youtube video WTF !!!
Anyone know where I can find the Farns/Wilson fight online?
Pete must have turned off the links option
I don’t want to sound like I’m looking for a rumble to start but for a few years it seems like there hasn’t been a strong enough statement made in Fenway.
When (not ‘if’) Jeter and (not ‘or’) A-Rod get hit in the wrist (and they WILL both get hit especially A-Rod by Dice-K) Girardi has to bring Farnsworth in to start the following game and hit Ortiz, Varitek and/or Ellsbury in the wrist. If he starts, there’s no ump’s warning yet – free shot at one guy.
It shouldn’t be a surprise for Phil to get some good natured ribbing from his pals Joba and IPK. The centerpiece will be that he tried to impress Bill Smith of the Twins into making a deal to get him for a lower level minor leaguer.
I have a feeling this is the first “test” of the Girardi Era.
I think Maddon wants to see how aggressive Girardi, and by extension the Yankees, will be this season.
These are situations in which the Dynasty Teams NEVER backed down.
They took care of it in a baseball style brand of justice, and just kept plugging along.
The last several seasons, Yankee teams just took this type of crap. Joba changed it last year with those missles over Youkilis’ head.
This isn’t a huge test. But, its a test just the same.
Its why payback is in order.
No payback, then you can’t complain again this season when a team takes liberties with you.
A little payback now, and this stuff gets put to bed for the season during spring training.
“Pete must have turned off the links option”
I posted a link a few posts up.
“Girardi has to bring Farnsworth in to start the following game and hit Ortiz, Varitek and/or Ellsbury in the wrist. If he starts, there’s no ump’s warning yet – free shot at one guy.”
Then the intent is blatantly obvious and pre-meditated. That’s not something that MLB will stand for. Girardi and Farnsworth would get a SERIOUS suspension.
try now because it still doesn’t show up
SJ
You say hit their best player, Crawford. What if a NRI from the Yankees did that to another catcher. Does that mean they can hit our best guy? I don’t see anyone in the league plunking Alex or Jeter in retaliation. I mean they get beaned all the time, but those two guys get a lot of respect.
Someone I wouldn’t want to rumble with? Jorge. He’s got a mean streak and is old school.
ok…
http://www.fark.com
Are you guys showing “Your comment is waiting for moderation”? Only you can see that post.
Also, two links in one post is a no-no.
maybe it’s just youtube links that’re blocked
I remember that incident with Tino, Benitez & Strawberry fondly, and I wholeheartedly agree that this is the way of dealing w/these things that the team needs to return to. And Farnsworth does have to be the guy to do it. There is a video somewhere online of him laying out Jeremy Affeldt during a Tigers/Royals brawl – great stuff and I’ve wanted him to do the same thing for the Yanks ever since I saw it. Here’s his chance! Then if they want to charge the mound and fight I’m sure Shelley and Big G are more than ready to throw down as well, with Bruney and Britton charging in from the pen to wreak even more havoc.
All I can say is bring it!!! Something has to happen on Wed and I think Shelley’s quote in the previous entry is a hint that it will.
Or, JG should immediately bring someone else in to nail a Sox and keep Farnsworth on hand in case he needs to nail another guy. In either case, make sure Shelley’s playing 1B when he does. Boston players seem to believe nothing will happen when they nail our guys. Now I don’t know what they’re really thinking, but it seems that way from the TV.
I know it may not sound like it but I totally agree an escalation isn’t something we should want to see in baseball. Fact of the matter is Boston’s pitching staff seems to have lots of pitches ‘slipping’ when NY’s in town and certain guys are up. When does it end?
Hyeok
Kwon Hyeok 23 LHP 93 – 97 mph fastball, plus slider
Ho
Jung Jung Ho 20 LHP 90 – 95 mph fastball, plus curve
You pick out their best player to show you aren’t putting up with this nonsense.
Crawford will also tell his manager to cut the crap because he knows he will be the target when payback occurs after this kind of stuff.
At this point, the Yankees should say nothing more about the incident.
Just show up Wednesday, take care of it, and move on.
If they do that, and Maddon still wants to keep this thing going, he will get his chance.
Between now and then though, I wouldn’t say another word about it if I’m the Yankees. Let your actions do your speaking for you.
Brandon,
Mr. Youtube. Thanks for the Love (links).
LOL mel
I mean…sure, I’d throw a million at either to come start out in A/AA and see what’s what. If, you know, either wants to come here.
Guys I looked at like BHK and Hee-Seop Choi were signed out of college over there…are these guys pro? If so, that may very well mean that they can’t be signed right now.
Send email to the guys at mlbtraderumors.com. Perhaps they have the contacts to suss out the situation here.
All off season the Rays have talked about how this season is finally the season that they are going to start winning. That’s what they’ve said from top to bottom. They are tired of waiting to win.
Its very clear that Joe Maddon is instilling this absurd sense of machismo into this team in order to focus them on winning this year – that’s his way of trying to turn the page on their terrible history of losing (as if that would some how make their awful bullpen better…).
The Rays and the Yankees play 19 times this season. That is a lot.
If the yankees don’t respond this will only get worse during the regular season. The rays will get chippier and more out of line.
A broken wrist is a very serious injury, especially for a catcher. Cerevelli’s hands are going to take a beating once he comes back. That’s just the way catching is.
We saw how hard it was for Matsui to come back from the broken wrist. This could lead to Cerevelli wasting his entire season. That would be very unfortunate as I thought Cerevelli had a shot to be the backup catcher in 2010 or even earlier depending on injuries.
You can’t just let that go. The Rays are just going to get worse. Maddon is going to keep driving this same message home all season in their attempt to turn the franchise’s bad fortune around.
Whozat – you’re right about intent. Any fine/suspension would be more.
If a couple relief pitchers come in immediately after the previous guys is ejected, conceivably they could all have trouble with their grip.
If Farnsworth is the 2nd guy in (after Bruney gets tossed for coming in and nailing Manny) well Ortiz can’t be upset because Farnsworth’s control’s been a little ‘erratic’ at times right?
I will do that whozat
“well Ortiz can’t be upset because Farnsworth’s control’s been a little ‘erratic’ at times right?”
No, but the ump can toss Kyle too. And then MLB can jack up everyone’s suspension. Now, all of a sudden the Yanks are playing with a 24 man roster for ten days straight because Bruney and Kyle are serving 5-day suspensions right in a row, and Girardi is out of the dugout for a week. And the Sox get…no disciplinary action at all.
Basically, it makes no sense to me, but the incentives are set up to encourage teams to strike first. The team that instigates is the one that gets off scot free. The team that retaliates gets reamed.
from what I gathered they are both in pro Korea ball
Kwon Hyeok – (Age:23) Samsung Lions
Jung Jung-Ho- ( Age: 20 ) SK Wyverns
I’ll do more research on these two and see if they can be signed
Hughes was fantastic again today. I really feel he is going to be a great pitcher one day.
Anyway, I added 14 new shots of the New Stadium today, check em out:
http://slidingintohome.blogspot.com/2008/03/some-more-new-stadium-photos.html
Hi Peter, we were at the game in Ft Myers today as I live only about 3 miles from Hammond Field. I think the Yanks played well, but some fielding and walks gave the twins some runs at the end. Igawa escaped but his control just isn’t there. On the other hand I thought Phil was pretty dominant especially against the Twins top hitters.
Many Yankees fans were there and were happy to see Melky, Cano, Hedeki, Phil and Shelly there. It was the first game I went to at Hammond, but many fans were disappointed that so many regulars weren’t there. Is this the way it is, that the regulars for the most part don’t make the road trip and if you want to see them you have to go to Legends?
“Is this the way it is, that the regulars for the most part don’t make the road trip and if you want to see them you have to go to Legends?”
That’s the way it is for every team. They bring 4-5 starting position players.
I found the remarks by Joe Maddon, about talking to Joe Girardi, to be intentionally insulting (see Pete’s post a couple back).
If Joe G. sees them, if he wasn’t sure about payback Wednesday, I think he might be now.
Sad we have to talk about this, and that the Yanks have to deal with this, (not to mention poor Cervelli), but there doesn’t appear to be a choice. One hopes that after Crawford, or whomever it is, gets hit, he just gets up, and runs to first, and that’s the end of it. You don’t want this to go on, with the risk of someone getting hurt.
I’ms surprised Maddon is so cavalier about players gettinig hurt. If this is the only way he has to instill a winning attitude in his team, it doesn’t speak well of his abilities as a leader.
I’m sure it was mentioned before, but I wonder how people’s opinions would vary if it was Jorge’s wrist that was broken.
If Maddon was anywhere near the ‘developer of talent’ the Rays management thinks he is, he could easily have seen that his player could have run through the catcher in a RS game to try and jar the ball loose. But by not going through with it in ST, both he and his player would get credit for good judgement. Not in his DNA, I guess.
“We have a long drive home ahead of us.”
—of course, there will be a planned stop at Mons Venus I assume.
Dude, guys, I just checked my fantasy roster because I missed the draft yesterday, or whenever it was.
Anyway, my line up is okay, but my rotation is insane. I’ve got Bedard, Kazmir, Lincecum, Carmona, Hughes AND Chamberlain, Nathan, Lidge, Perez.
(Please don’t tell me about how kazmir was hurt or Bedard didn’t have a good day today, I’m in baseball heaven at the moment, and I’m not even a fantasy geek!)
What would Billy do??
Santana!! We could have gotten Santana without giving up Hughes. It would have taken Kennedy and Cabrera. Did anyone here Bill Smith today talking during the game????
He said, “The Yankees simply did not want to part with any of their young pitching arms and I can’t blame them”.
What does that tell you???
On Smith’s last call to Cashman, Cash flat out turn the deal down no matter what or who.
IF the deal was Kennedy/Cabrera +1 or +2 you have to be kidding me.. YOU MAKE THAT DEAL!!
Santana, Hughes, Wang, Pet, Joba/Moose – lord
I understand taking your shot with 2 young arms but when you have 3 young arms.. you have one to deal..
Unreal.. again I will quote Jorge Posada who knows what arms we have and what we don’t, “We need an Ace, I am all for going after Santana”.
I take his word of anyone elses. He knows his pitchers and his game.
Sadly, we will wait to recapitulate our thoughts on the Santana trade much later in the season and all of you that were so black and white about it, will realize you were wrong. Not obtaining Santana was just as bad a mistake as GETTING Kei Igawa.
But beside all of that.. even off the field it was a bad mistake. Santana would have been another big ticket draw like Arod..
What a way to remember the opening of the NEW Yankee Stadium.. “Damn, did we stink the last year of the original Yankee Stadium or what?”
Get used to it, that is how you will remember the 2008 NYY.
Grumf. Yes I am negative.. so what? I am allowed to voice my pessimism the same way you all voice your optimism. That is what blogging and open discussion is all about.
I’ll await the attacks.
On another note, somewhat related:
Melky Cabrera looks horrible at the plate. Gee what a loss it would have been not to have him.. For some reason he seems occupied somewhere else too.. he is not his usual joyful self.
I agree that Joe is setting himself up to have to do something. You tell one of the vets to do it. The kids shouldn’t have that put on him. Make it clear to Joba (since I believe he is pitching that day) that he should NOT do anything, that it will be taken care of. As mel said we don’t need him getting a reputation. Farnsworth should do it. Farnsworth would gain Yankee fans respect if he stood up for his player.
We just need to make sure it ends Wednesday, we don’t need any carry over.
karma
March 9th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
What would Billy do??
********************
See the pine tar incident among other things that Billy would have done.
I agree that Farnsworth should be the designated chin music guy to make a point.
It becomes a question of whether he is slotted to pitch on Wednesday or next Saturday vs. the Rays.
“What does that tell you???”
That Bill Smith ALSO thinks the Yankees did the right thing by not giving their young pitchers for the right to pay Johan 130+ million dollars over 6 years?
“He said, “The Yankees simply did not want to part with any of their young pitching arms and I can’t blame themâ€.”
Don’t be naive here. Bill Smith has been absolutely lambasted in Minnesota, the press, and throughout baseball for getting so little for Santana.
Of course he’s going to try to spin this so it looks like it was the yankees being recalcitrant and not him being scared to pull the trigger.
Hughes was clearly on the table during the winter meetings – hank confirmed this. Smith failed to pull the trigger because he wanted more.
Too bad – he misplayed the market completely – and didn’t get his dream deal.
He got left with the bag and this deal will forever be attached to his career.
It was a terrible way to start your leadership of an organization. Terrible.
Now he’s trying to pretend that it had nothing to do with it!
Give me a break. There were reports by 4 different sources after the Santana trade went down. 3 of the 4 said that Smith called back and asked for Wang AND Kennedy. He was still trying to pull off a dream deal. Only Bob Klapisch reported that Smith would have taken a Kennedy based deal – and we don’t even know what other talent he supposedly asked for with Kennedy.
Other than that we never heard anything, ever of Smith being willing to take a Kennedy only deal. The Twins front office was leaking stories daily on this to the Minnesota Press. They never, ever said that the Twins were working on a Kennedy based deal.
To somehow say that this deal was on the yankees is absurd. Smith asks the yankees for Hughes – the yankees put him on the table. Then smith asks for hughes and and Kennedy. Nonsense. In the end he winds up accepting garbage from the mets.
That’s his mistake – he’ll never live it down, he knows it and now he’s trying to get the fan base off his back. Just sour grapes.
And think about this – how do you think Smith felt watching Hughes dominate today? How do you think he felt watching Hughes pitch that well while at the same time watching Carlos Gomez get himself out by having a bunted ball hit him?
Remember – Twins fans were watching this game. For many of them, this may have been the first time they ever saw Phil Hughes pitch.
For many twins fans this may have been the first time they watched the team play since Santana got traded.
Do you think some of those Twins fans may have been a little upset watching a 21 year old they could have had make their regulars look silly?
Smith was just trying to send a message to those Twins fans absolving himself of responsibility for an awful trade he was forced into because he completely mis-read the market for his most valuable asset.
GM’s don’t recover from mistakes like that and he knows it. He’s just trying to spin Twins fans into thinking it wasn’t his fault.
Interesting note.
The Yankees are planning to remove alcohol from their charters when they are returning home. The theory is that they want to avoid the potential liability of having the players drink on the team plane and then get into their cars at Yankee Stadium to drive home.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03092008/sports/moose_a_little_less_gun__shy_101049.htm
I believe Farnsworth was a linebacker before his baseball career. Anyone up to a 235-lb running back will be flattened if he approaches the mound.
I usually agree with you SJ44, but not this time. Consider payback for intentional harm, not for something unintentional.
So what’s the official line on when hard, legal plays are ok?
-WS only?
-playoffs only?
-meaningful plays in meaningful regular season games?
-any regular season game?
-ST games for guys fighting for a spot?
-anytime they’re keeping score?
For some players, spring training games are like their World Series—it’s perform or go home.
I say it’s never OK to intentionally harm someone to pay back something in a gray area—especially when it is on the legal side of gray.
jennifer: I like that idea…I mean, they don’t need to do an outright ban, but rather limit the amount…but I like the theory.
If Bill Smith were the GM of the Yankees, he’d never get away with the blame game. The Steinbrenners would have gone ballistic with the way he handled the entire Santana matter.
Here’ what a Twins fan had to say watching the game today. Saw this on the star tribune website:
“Dave says:
March 9th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I get sick to my stomach seeing Hughes pitch. To think the the Twins blew a chance to pick him up.Hughes straight up would have been a good trade. So much for the Twins great scouting staff.”
This is the fan base bill smith has to deal with.
BTW, a pitcher hitting a batter is always against baseball rules, and there is a penalty if you do it, even unintentionally. Beaning someone intentionally qualitatively different from what happened yesterday IMHO.
One other take from a twins fan on Bill Smith’s great work:
“mike wants wins says:
March 9th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
What is it you like about the players the Twins got for this year? The .200 batting average? The future in AAA for Humber and Mulvey this year? How about Guerra in A? This year counts. We still have to pay for tickets. They players still get older, and their stats still count. Hughes isn’t crowned as anything, but he’s proven he can get MLB players out. Melky has proven he can play in the majors (not be great, but be good). None of the guys the Twins got have proven anything yet. And, Hughes has been and continues to be projected to be a number 1 pitcher. When you traded Garza, you had to get a number 1 pitcher back, as NO ONE in the Twins organization (maybe Robertson) has that kind of stuff. Smith failed to do that.
Should we just give him a pass? People gave Ryan a pass for years (funny, everyone says how empty the system is, but no one blames that on the FO, weird).”
Bill Smith is going to spend many years trying to spin this trade. Over time as Hughes excels and the prospects they got flounder, he’s only going to look worse and worse and I’d bet his claims that the yankees would not trade any young pitchers grow louder and louder.
I think that what happened with Smith is that he grossly overestimated the demand for Santana as well as the Yankees’ desire to have him at any cost.
If Cashman made that kind of blunder, he’d be run out of town.
fleas, I’m not going to blast you, but I like your perseverance. What will it take for you to see it from our POV? lol.
I wouldn’t be getting too wrapped up into what Bill Smith says. I don’t think that he is telling the whole story. As far as we know, he had the package from the Yankees that was more than enough to get Santana, the package that included Phil Hughes. He decided to get a bit greedy, and it came back and bit him.
Call it inexperience, call it greed, call it whatever you want, but it’s hard to deny that Bill Smith has some serious egg on his face right now. If I was a Twins fan, what Hughes did today would REALLY make me question the direction in which the front office was leading the team.
J-Dawg,
Amazing how the stars aligned so that Phil would be pitching today, huh?
I didn’t hear him on the FSN broadcast, was it radio? At least he showed up and talked about it.
I really hope that Gomez and some of the others pan out. It’s not their fault that they were the prize gems of a thin farm system and that some guy from the midwest overplayed his hand.
how about that DiceK 72 pitches to get 9 outs and gave up a 3run hr
mel- It was neat that Hughes was able to face the Twins today. Amazing how this game works sometimes. Twins fans should really hope that Gomez and the others pan out. The Twins traded away two starters (Matt Garza being the other) and they really didn’t have the deepest staff to start with. Minnesota could find themselves in the depths of the AL Central this season and for a few years to come, unless Bill Smith can pull a rabbit out of his hat to save face.
Questions of the Day:
1. Would Terry Ryan have trade for Hughes?
2. Will Alex Rodriguez participate in the Homerun Derby at the Stadium?
3. Which came first? Fransisco “The Franchise” Liriano or Phil Franchise?
4. Who doesn’t love Hughes here?
OMG! We have fleas again!
Pete – please call the exterminator!
Just throwing a question out there.
Which would you rather watch, a pitchers duel (where every pitch counts) or a slug fest.
Personally I’d rather watch a pitchers duel.
Jennifer: A pitcher’s duel when we’re pitching and a slugfest when we’re batting
Pitchers Duel
Does anyone think Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg, or Chris Woodward have a chance to make the team? Do you think Wilson Bettimet has it locked up?
I know we have to enter the season with one more pitcher since we have so many games in a row to begin the season. Do you think any of them would accept a minor league deal?
I can only take so many pitchers duel’s since you hang on every single pitch. I’d think most of the time the first team to score wins the duel.
I think Jason Lane will be Scrantons’ RF.
as for the back-up INF….Id say its between Ensberg and Woodward…...Betemit has a spot.
Speaking of Ensberg….Great Q&A with him in Newark Star Ledger today…..ST 2000 in Kissimmee Florida…robbed,hogtide,and duct taped!!! pretty scary stuff!
Very disappointing, Peter. Maddon does not look the least bit silly, just as he did not “hide” in his office. Some of the press think they are the story, or that it is their job to create stories; they are not hard hitting reporters at all but irksome mosquitos, and Maddon was right, having once said his piece, to ignore them. As he said, the story should have no legs, and he was not going to provide the legs.
As for the team playing hardball in spring training, there is nothing silly about it, nor is there any reason to think Maddon is asking his players to hurt anyone. It was a clean play by a young player trying to stay on the roster. Johnson could either stop and say “here I am, tag me” or he could risk breaking his leg on Cervelli’s shin guards or make a futile swipe at the bag that Cervelli was blocking.
I don’t blame Girardi for defending his player and sending the message to the Yankees that he is behind them, but if anyone looks silly in terms of what was said, it is he, not Maddon. As a reporter, it seems to me you ought to be evaluating fairly, not pandering to idiot fans. It does little good for you to criticize posters here for seeking blood when you incite it by such nonsense posts. Shameful!
Kinda late addressing this, but Tampa’s whole season is this Spring Training,,,,when the season starts, they remain the joke of the league. Our payback is that they stink and will always stink. It will be nice to see when they get run out of their own town soon.
http://espn.go.com/espn/endlessdrama/
Hey Bob R…..I am certainly not one who blindly follows Pete ( just ask him ) ,,,but ( gasp here )...I am totally with Pete on this one ( uh-oh,,,we are thinking the SAME here, Pete…but PLEASE don’t quit
)....Bob R….you sound like either a Tampa fan or a Boston Maroon…either way, your opinion has been noted and properly placed in the “G” file…..NEXT !!!
Bet is a lock to make this team, I think Morgan Ensberg should make the team too, we can get something in the trade market for him. And I’m not into helping other NY teams get freebie coughs The Mets
lol Jennifer and I know those actors the most notables from All My Children
how come people agree with girardi but when i site zim as an opposing opinion ppl say he gets paid by the rays, what do u expect him to say?
doesnt girardi get a check from the yankees?
girardi made WAY too big a thing about this and now retaliation is in the air and the chances are good that someone else is going to get hurt.
as for the argument that the yankees should rataliate and not worry about the consequences:
remember that there are 13 other teams in the leage and by the all star break, at least a third of them are out of it and dont have much to play for. thier chances to injure our star players are constant and our chances to hurt them are few b/c we cant blow game situations to make a point. Also , who you gonna hit on the royals or orioles (or even the rays) to make up for jeter or arod being hurt?
sending a message sounds great an all but the yanks (and sox) have more to lose than any of these teams and starting a beanball war works against the yankees. i know it was annoying that the yankees rarely retaliated in torre’s time but just maybe there was alot of wisdom in that.
btw. this reminds me alot about all the crap that catcher for toronto got for separating jeter’s shoulder on opening day a few years back. the guy was just covering 3rd and an accident happened and alot of yankee fans (and even some players) tried to make it out as a dirty play, which was total BS.
Some people just see the yankees as incapable of doing wrong and if there is an accident it has to be because the other team intentionally did it to harm the yankees and express thier anti-yankees bias.
that play was wrong , is wrong and will always be wrong, no way you can spin that crap.
and Don Zimmer needs to ST*U and think before he speaks in reguards to this play
Woodward is making the team.
I really think they need a Miguel Cairo type to start the season. I don’t know that he’ll be there all year long, but they need that type of versatility in the early going until things settle into place and they see what they have.
Because Zim isn’t going to say anything against the organization he works for.
Fleas I know you wanted Santana and this will be your mantra for however long BUT it has been reported in numerous places including this blog that they call that Bill Smith made to Cash the day before the trade to the Mets had him asking for WANG plus Melky plus KENNEDY 2 other young guys.
I understand you are frustrated and this will be your pet peeve for a while but at least get the facts right
brandon you’re wrong, even cervelli didnt call it a dirty play and ron gardenhire, who has no horse in this race called in unusual but didnt call it dirty.
Utility Man,
Did you watch the game? When I saw Woodward pinch hit I thought it was Cairo, but then I realized he’s not on the team anymore.
No one wants to answer my questions of the day in my 8:19 post?
BD I’m not so sure about that
right now Ensberg > Woodward, Betemit > Woodward
it’s not going to be easy to put him on this roster, you can only guarantee 25 spots
Actually all I heard cervelli say was it was “okay”. Meanwhile I heard he walked in the clubhouse visibly angry. He isn’t going to call out the guy to the media, he will however to his teammates.
Questions of the Day:
1. Would Terry Ryan have trade for Hughes? Don’t know
2. Will Alex Rodriguez participate in the Homerun Derby at the Stadium? I hope not, and doubt it. He doesn’t want to mess up his homerun swing.
3. Which came first? Fransisco “The Franchise†Liriano or Phil Franchise? Phil
4. Who doesn’t love Hughes here? No one, well maybe the Anti dude, he hates anyone who isn’t perfect.
he would have been angry if he had broken his wrist falling down the dugout stairs after the game ended, he’s gonna miss at least 2 months and ppl had him ticketed for trenton, which is a promotion.
Wouldn’t it be sweet if Phil threw a no-hitter against the Twinkies this year?
and on Gardenhire’s comment
Gardenhire said he also warns his third base coach not to take any unnecessary risks that could result in collisions.
you’ll hear more about this as the week goes on
Mel I will take a shot at your questions
1. Would Terry Ryan have trade for Hughes?
I think he would have if they could have gotten the other players to be agreed upon. If noting else Terry Ryan I belive was very well informed about the minor league talent and scoutin
2. Will Alex Rodriguez participate in the Homerun Derby at the Stadium?
I say not a chance especially based on what he has said in the past about it messing up the swing etc. If they Giants and MLB could not get Barry to participate last year in SF I dont think they can get Alex to do it this year and as a Yankees fan I am more than ok with that. I saw what it did to Abrea when he won and what it did to David Wright when he won
3. Which came first? Fransisco “The Franchise†Liriano or Phil Franchise?
No clue but would venture a guess HUghes came first
4. Who doesn’t love Hughes here?
Big fan
“Woodward is making the team.”
Not so sure about that. In fact I think their trying to do everything they can to not have to carry a woodward type.
Woodward only makes the team if the yankees feel that Betemit is not an adequate utility infielder.
Betemit can play 3rd and he’s OK at first. The issue is up the middle. That’s a matter of range and comfort with him.
Betemit losing weight helps – hopefully his range will be better. He’s played short a few times and been ok.
The bigger issue is how comfortable he feels at 2b – no a place he’s played a lot and not easy to necessarily learn because of the blind pivot on the double play.
If he feels ok at 2b then I don’t think they should or will carry either woodward or green. When you have 3 all star calliber infielders like cano, jeter and arod there will be very few games for a backup like woodward to play.
The yankees already have extra outfielders on the team and depth with Brett Gardner for injuries. Woodwards ability to play outfield isn’t that valuable to them.
This team will be much better if Betemit can be a mediocre to decent backup at SS/ 2b and they keep Ensberg.
It would be nice to have Woodward at AAA if he accepts the assignment. Otherwise he doesn’t have much use or value. How many times would they need Betemit and Woodward on the field at the same time?
Keeping Ensberg gives them a lot of flexibility against left handed pitching. He will be a terrific asset if he comes even close to the form he had before his shoulder injury mid 2006.
The yankees last year only had a team OPS of .776 against lefties. That’s a big drop off from what they did against righties. Tough lefties like Bedard gave them fits.
Having a guy like Ensberg to face a tough lefty reliever late in the game would be very valuable. That’s the kind of depth that makes a bench particularly strong.
Mel
I’ll play.
No
No
Liriano (without him, there is no franchise this year)
Fleas
Hi Mel,
Sorry, don’t have an informed answer for 1-3. But having read this blog for a couple months or so, #4 is pretty clear. What’s not to love about Phil Hughes from a pinstripe perspective?
Worst thing I remember any Yankee fan say about Phil here is they’d trade him for the best pitcher in baseball.
This is pretty funny. Roger on SNL
http://polijamblog.polijam.com/?p=823
Jennifer,
It’s hard to say, I think the primary thing was the Yankees got cold feet. So it basically wasn’t Smith’s fault.
I think that Alex might do it. Any other stadium, he’d pass. But it’s home field and he might do it for the fans.
Hopefully we won’t have to hear about it everytime Santana’s lights out.
I have tickets for next Saturdays game with the Rays.
Hopefully the Yanks will take care of business Wednesday and they can then just concentrate on baseball.
Of course if Maddon wants to retaliate for our retaliation…..things could get really interesting.
Thanks for playing guys.
So right now Bet’s the 2B backup?
gayle
No.
Yes.
Phil because Liriano was never called the Franchise in Minny, that was Santana.
In Phil I Trust
Joe Maddon is hanging onto his job by his fingernails. (And if/when he loses this one he’s not getting another.) It’s absurd to think that he’s going to tell his squad to play at half speed, spring training or not, against the team that’s been kicking dirt in their face since birth. It’s even nuttier to think that he shouldn’t defend his guy after a hard-nosed play.
Had Bret Gardner done the same thing, every poster here would be praising his grit, crediting Girardi for changing the attitude of the team, etc., etc. Where’s all the hand-wringing about Jason Lane breaking up a double play today?
On Santana, the question isn’t whether he asked for Kennedy and Wang at the end. The question is what, if anything, did Cashman counter-offer. If he wanted to he could have easily beat the Met deal with a Kennedy-based package. And contrary to the popular myth, GMs do not accept significantly less from other teams just to stick it to the Yankees. To me it seems that Cash didn’t want Santana and the $130M extension at any price. And that is friggin crazy.
I meant Jenn. my fault
I can’t believe it is already 10:30
this stinks!!
ill take a shot
1 ryan would not have traded for hughes, because the yankees were only really in the sweepstakes for that weekend and i still dont think there really was any package that worked for both teams. even just hughes for santana would have GREATLY benefited the twins considering santana’s contract status along with the small matter of $135M.
2 he will but if he’s smart, he’ll hit 4 in the opeining round and watch the rest (dont pull a bobby abreu, please!)
3 gotta give it to liriano, i heard him called that before i ever heard of hughes. also because its a horrible label to stick on a guy
4 whats not to like?
Jennifer, that skit is funny.
The only thing missing though is a scene where the owners pretend not to notice and give big contracts to the next big juicers, as the Commissioner smiles.
“And contrary to the popular myth, GMs do not accept significantly less from other teams just to stick it to the Yankees.”
No, but they do often take considerably less to ship players to the other division.
Trading him to the yankees for anything less than hughes or a ridiculous wang/kennedy deal would have made smith look silly.
Hughes was on the table. He could have had him. Once the yankees took him off the table, Smith would have looked stupid for taking a lesser package from the yankees even if that package was better than the mets.
“To me it seems that Cash didn’t want Santana and the $130M extension at any price. And that is friggin crazy.”
It was the talent AND the money together. It always was. I don’t think any team is eager to pay anyone $138 million – the mets weren’t happy about it. They did it because they gave up very little talent and were desperate.
If Santana had been a free agent Cashman would have signed him, IMO.
I don’t think Ensberg makes it if Matsui is healthy and starts the year on the active roster.
I don’t think Betemit, right now, is proven enough at 2b/ss. I think fans are always going to want to go with the offense, but the Yankees need someone who can be used as a defensive replacement or spell Jeter/Cano when necessary and not have to worry about it. Right now, that is not Betemit. Ensberg has done a great job so far in ST, but Duncan has done better and they won’t face a ton of lefties in the early going (Kazmir if healthy enough?, Lester? Buehrle?)
We’ll see. At least it’s not a bad problem to have if Ensberg keeps hitting well. I still think teams need a true utility infielder and Betemit is not that guy (yet).
Cb Schilling to the soxs ring a bell?
Gayle:
1: Who’s Terry Ryan?
2: No, because of the risk of injury/tiring himself out/upsetting his stroke.
3: Hard one. I’d do a coin toss.
4: Those that wanted to trade him, obviously.
Betemit is too all or nothing. It is either homeruns or strikeouts.
We have pieces that right now the Mets would die to have. I wish that we’d be able to trade whoever won’t make the team for small pieces.
yeah and unless the pitching really collapses this year (or maybe if andy retires, which i dont see) i dont think they’re gonna go for 6 years for sabathia either.
CB,
How many tough lefties will the Yanks face in the AL East? Just Kazmir? I like Ensberg but with Duncan there I don’t think the need is as great anymore. I guess it’s up to Betemit. I’d need to see more of him a 2b/ss and he’d first need to prove he could handle it in reg season games. If he can, you’re def right that Ensberg would be a nice bench hitter.
Just looking thru the contracts, now correct me if I’m wrong, but if the Yankees don’t bring them north, they will be in Scranton.
Morgan Ensberg 3b
1 year/$1.75M (2008)
* signed as a free agent 1/31/08 (minor-league contract)
Jason Lane of
1 year (2008)
* signed as a free agent 1/10/08 (minor-league contract)
Chris Woodward inf
1 year/$0.7M (2008)
* signed as a free agent 1/24/08 (split contract, $0.12M in minors)
Ahh Rebecca et al those wre Mel’s questions not mine lol
“Cb Schilling to the soxs ring a bell?”
Jennifer – you’re absolutely right. That is the quintissential case of a team not getting the best deal possible for an elite talent.
Clearly Arizone had other priorities – whatever they were. I’m sure getting him out of the division was one of them.
Smith made a bad deal, at least in part in order to protect himself.
By sending him to the Mets he could basically say, I liked these prospects better than a non-hughes deal.
Why didn’t he bargain with boston? Even without ellsbury or lester Smith could have gotten a better deal from boston than he did from the mets.
But Smith was very public and very vocal about what his demands were and said over and over we’ll keep santana for the season if we don’t get our deal.
Many twins fans believed him.
Once you draw that kind of hard line in the sand it looks embarrassing to go back.
Smith hurt the franchise but save himself a certain type of embarrassment.
Jennifer based on that it would seem that if Lane and Ensberg do not make the major league team they perhaps can be released or rather have the freedom to look elswhere I would think the same is true with Woodward although it says that a portion of that contract specifically mentions a minor league salary
mel,
I can only answer 2 and 4.
2. No. ARod will not enter HR derby because he won’t want to mess up his swing and because the left-handers have such an advantage at YS.
4. Everyone sane loves Hughes.
Because the soxs were also reluctant to give a pitcher a 6 year 150 million dollar contract.
Rebecca, Ryan is Smith’s predecessor, but he’s still in the Minny front office.
Jennifer, Bet’s looking better now. Even drawing walks!
ensberg was an mvp candidate a few years ago, what happened?
I take it as they signed a minor league deal and were invited to spring training, as opposed to being a non roster invitee.
I believe he injured his shoulder and wasn’t the same after.
Thanks mel! you learn something new every day!
36 HR and 101 ribbies, i know it was enron field, but still…them’s good numbers! now scrambling for a spot on the bench, that is sad, i hope its not another example of you know what…
Woodward and Porter have a minor league contract obligation, they stay wheather or not they make the big club which they won’t. Ensberg is a must sign. You don’t let that type of bat go to someone and not get anything in return.
We sign him and if a team midseason or before the season begins inquires we own him and get something in return that helps the depth of the team.
“How many tough lefties will the Yanks face in the AL East? Just Kazmir?”
Boston Dave,
Your points are all valid. This is more an issue of philosophy about how to build a team.
A guy like Woodward is a pure insurance guy. A guy who is not going to help you as a plus but will not hurt you over the short run (though he was atrocious last year in atlanta – why he was released).
When I think about the yankee offense last year I wasn’t that impressed by it, in certain ways.
It was a very potent offense, but one that lacked flexibility. It also needed to play in a certain way to thrive.
The yankee offense if predicated on taking pitches and making pitchers work. That approach works very, very well in the regular season.
In the playoffs, with the higher quality arms, they keep facing guys that pound the zone and throw many more strikes. That’s a key reason why the offense has been so anemic in the post season.
I think they need to shit their offense from just looking at how many runs they score to how they create those runs. They need to create a more flexible offense not just a more potent one.
They’ve already come a long way. Adding Molina and Betemit were great additions. Adding Shelley also looks like a real plus.
Now for that last spot I would much rather they add a guy who will be a situational plus rather than an insurance guy who won’t give you much.
Say a cano gets hurt – woodward cannot fill in for him long term. He will be seriously exposed. Look at his numbers over his career.
So if he can’t fill in long term his insurance is more of an emergency/ spot start type of use.
I don’t think that’s very valuable because he will play very few games.
The difference between that an Ensberg is this – when the Yankees use Ensberg it will be in very high leverage situations.
You’re right – there aren’t many good lefty pitchers and the yankee lefty hitters are generally good against lefty pitchers.
But the team was consistently worse against lefties than righties. The team OPS against lefties was only .760 – that is not good.
So there’s Kazmir but also Sabbathia and Bedard. They are going to meet cleveland and seattle for very important series this year that will have major implications for who wins the wild card.
They could meet either team in the playoffs.
Also – think about relief specialists like Rafael Perez. The yankee lefty hitters had absolutely no chance against Perez last year in the playoffs. None. He made them look awful.
Facing a perez, sabbathia, bedard – especially in the playoffs – i would want to have Ensberg on the team.
Those are all high leverage situations where his impact would far outstrip the value that woodward would have.
Ensberg is not just a minor upgrade on lefty hitters – he destroys lefties. He has a career .936 OPS against lefties. That is phenomenal.
And if Ensberg’s troubles last year were due to his shoulder injury in 2006 and he’s now recovered (which it looks like this spring) then his upside is enormous.
For the last guy on the roster I would much rather give it to a guy who can be used in high leverage situtations and who has the most potential value.
They can alway, always find a woodward type off the waiver wire or make a cheap trade. Those players are plentiful.
If ensberg has a good spring another team – like the mets – will scoop him up very quickly. You won’t have a second chance to get a player with that much potential at roster spot 25.
CB what’s your take on this LHP his name is Kwon Hyeok tops 97 mph, nasty slider but pitches Pro Korea baseball
Kwon
CB,
So it’s less embarassing to take a bag of rocks from the Mets than guys who can actually help his team from the Yanks? I don’t buy that and I don’t think Twins fans do either.
We’ll never realy know for sure, but I think the reason Smith didn’t bargain with Boston is the same reason he didn’t do a deal with the Yanks: Cash and Theo are both “too smart” to give $130M to arguably the best pitcher in baseball. Theo’s stance makes more sense, considering his lesser resources and position as defending champ. Cash’s to me is indefensible.
On Schilling, I think you guys are rewriting history. When Ari. moved him he was 36, fat as a whale, injury plagued, coming off an 8-9 season, and was looking for a big payday. There was no line of teams beating down the door to get him. Cash targeted J. Vasquez, Theo targeted Schilling, and we all know how it turned out.
Green has an out clause in his minor League contract…and he hasnt had a good spring so far.
I agree with Brandon…..Id take Ensberg over Woodward.
Betemit has been working out at 2b and SS lately.
mel…..no I did not see the game today…was making plans for next Sunday-Thursday visit to Tampa trip#2
Bench—-Molina,Betemit,Duncan,Ensberg
Matsui DH
Giambi 1B
Damon LF
Did anyone read the article on Ensberg???
http://www.nj.com
IMO it’ll be Ensberg, Betemit, along with Duncan and Molina as your bench for 08. Betemit has played 2b and SS in the past for Atlanta and the Dodgers, and he’s played 3B so far in ST and last year he played 1B and I believe some 2b for the Yankees. Ensberg can play 3b and 1B and DH against LH’s if need be while Duncan can play 1B and RF and DH. Woodward while he is a better fielder than Betemit probably at 2B and SS, he will only be a phone call away in Scranton if there is an emergency. If there was anyway that they would carry 5 guys for the bench I would almost want to have Gardner as that 5th guy for his speed off the bench as a PR for Posada and Giambi and Matsui and/or Molina but he will definitely start the season in Scranton, but what a weapon he would be off the bench. We’ll have to wait until September callups or an injury to Melky or if Matsui opens up the season on the DL.
OT – Great last episode of The Wire on HBO tonite, the best show on TV lives only on reruns and DVD now.
tim
homocide was the best show
You know, Tim, Gardner’s just the kind of speedy guy that a former NL MOY would want on his bench.
The next two weeks should be very interesting.
I wonder if we can stash that Porter guy in AAA for a while. Pretty good bat.
homicide, typo (not gay bashing)
Y’s Guy,
Homocide with Daniel Baldwin? Loved that show.
oops. me, too. Homicide.
MIKE’D UP CH.4 now people
Joba/Hughes/Kennedy are on
Reminder: Hughes,Joba and Kennedy are on Mike’d Up right now.
mel, im sure dusty would want gardener! so would bowa and yeah, girardi! but not ‘the genius’ (not a substance abuser). definatly a whitey kinda guy…
where do i find mike’d up?
Mike’D up is weird tonight. Francessa is in NY, the 3 kids are outside near an airport, all I hear are planes in the background, the camera angles on the kids are not that great.
It sure is great seeing all 3 together!!
Heres to great Health and very good careers for all 3 with the Yankees!!!
If anyone watched the Miked Up interview it is just an example of why no one should listen to Francesa and his partner in terms of their knowledge when it comes to this team.
Even I know that Joba and Ian have not been to Yankees SPring Training before and to ask them what he difference between a Torre camp and Girardi camp is a waste of a question to them. He had no clue that Phil was the only one who had ever brrn to a spring training before.
Otherwise I thought the guys did well although it looked like they were somewhere between an airport and a miniture golf place.
I think they were doing that remote from the Radisson Bay Hotel near RT 60 possibly outside on a deck of a restaurant called Crabby Bills.
Agreed UtilityMan.
Best of luck to Joba, Hughes and Kennedy.
im in exile, i dont get yes, but at least i can buy a powerball ticket (its at $230M now)
put NY1 another upclose w/ Phil Hughes and the Yankees interview is next
put NY1 another upclose w/ Phil Hughes and the Yankees interview is next
Although I do have to say that the opening montauge with them and Blaze of Glory was pretty darn good. The wanted poster etc
For all the screaming Mike did this week about Joba has to be in the pen, he didn’t get crazy about it with Joba live.
Even Shelley Duncan wasnt invited to camp in the past….he made a few call ups for away games…but was never invited.
Yeah, Mike should have done some HW before this. Even I knew Joba and Ian weren’t in camp last spring. How the hell were they suppose to be able to compare Torre vs Girardi?
Heres also to Alan Horne staying Healthy and rounding out the 5 starters in 2009…..
Wang
Hughes
Joba
Kennedy
Horne
Pat that tends to be typical with those guys they scream up and down about these things then when they actually get them in front of them they take a non issue approach. I am sure they will go after Girardi an Cash about it but not nearlyas much as they screamed about it this past week.
yeah, francessa was really loud about joba has to be in the pen. i really like mike, but its one thing to have your opinion and another to just dismiss anybody who thinks otherwise. he basically said if the yanks dont put him in the pen permanently, it will be a total screw up. he wouldnt even entertain the idea that joba could be more valuable as a top of the rotation guy. and he said he was gonna give it to joe g. when they got him on.
08 NYY
Lineup:
1.Johnny Damon LF
2.Derek Jeter SS
3.Bobby Abreu RF
4.Alex Rodriguez 3B
5.Jason Giambi 1B
6.Jorge Posada C
7.Robinson Cano 2B
8.Shelley Duncan DH
9.Melky Cabrera CF
Rotation:
10.Chien-Ming Wang
11.LHP Andy Pettitte
12.Mike Mussina
13.Phil Hughes
14.Ian Kennedy
Bullpen:
15.Mariano Rivera
16.Joba Chamberlain
17.Kyle Farnsworth
18.LaTroy Hawkins
19.Jeff Karstens
20.Chris Britton
21.LHP Billy Traber
Bench:
22.Jose Molina
23.Wilson Betemit
24.Morgan Ensberg
25.Hideki Matsui
best thing about that interview was the Blaze of Glory opening montage
Wanted Chamberlain,Hughes and Kennedy, crime fastballs I think
quenton , that sure seems to be the consensus, but there is alot of ST to go. i think olendorf is gonna make this team.
I’ll take Ollie over Britton.
Quentin, you are spot on…..........with one exception :
08 NYY
Lineup:
1. Johnny Damon LF
2. Derek Jeter SS
3. Bobby Abreu RF
4. Alex Rodriguez 3B
5. Jason Giambi 1B
6. Jorge Posada C
7. Robinson Cano 2B
8. Shelley Duncan DH
9. Melky Cabrera CF
Rotation:
10. Chien-Ming Wang
11. LHP Andy Pettitte
12. Mike Mussina
13. Phil Hughes
14. Ian Kennedy
Bullpen:
15. Mariano Rivera
16. Joba Chamberlain
17. Kyle Farnsworth
18. LaTroy Hawkins
19. Jeff Karstens
20. Ross Olendorf
21. LHP Billy Traber
Bench:
22. Jose Molina
23. Wilson Betemit
24. Morgan Ensberg
25. Hideki Matsui
Ensberg makes the cut, as Woodward/Lane/Green head to Scanton and are only a call away should an injury happen.
Quenton, I take Albie over Britton.
And yes, I’m calling him Albie.
“When someone shoves you, do you walk away? If there are other bullies around, they just got the message ‘hey, I can push that kid around and there will be no consequences.’”
This is a terrible analogy. The guy on the Rays was just trying to play hard and he went overboard in the split second of a bang-bang play. Bullies hurt people on purpose, so sending a message to a bully makes sense. It doesn’t make sense in this case.
“How many tough lefties will the Yanks face in the AL East? Just Kazmir?”
Your points are all valid. This is more an issue of philosophy about how to build a team.
A guy like Woodward is a pure insurance guy. A guy who is not going to help you as a plus but will not hurt you over the short run (though he was atrocious last year in atlanta – why he was released).
When I think about the yankee offense last year I wasn’t that impressed by it, in certain ways.
It was a very potent offense, but one that lacked flexibility.
It also needed to play in a certain way to thrive.
The yankee offense if predicated on taking pitches and making pitchers work.
That approach works very, very well in the regular season.
In the playoffs, with the higher quality arms, they keep facing guys that pound the zone and throw many more strikes. That’s a key reason why the offense has been so anemic in the post season.
I think they need to shift their offense from just looking at how many runs they score to how they create those runs.
They need to create a more flexible offense not just a more potent one. Ensberg helps do that. Woodward doesn’t nor does he add much defensively because he’s not going to play much at all.
They’ve already come a long way. Adding Molina and Betemit were great additions. Adding Shelley also looks like a real plus.
Now for that last spot I would much rather they add a guy who will be a situational plus rather than an insurance guy who won’t give you much.
Say a cano gets hurt – woodward cannot fill in for him long term. He will be seriously exposed. Look at his numbers over his career.
So if he can’t fill in long term his insurance is more of an emergency/ spot start type of use.
I don’t think that’s very valuable because he will play very few games.
The difference between that an Ensberg is this – when the Yankees use Ensberg it will be in very high leverage situations.
You’re right – there aren’t many good lefty pitchers and the yankee lefty hitters are generally good against lefty pitchers.
But the team was consistently worse against lefties than righties. The team OPS against lefties was only .760 – that is not good.
So there’s Kazmir but also Sabbathia and Bedard. They are going to meet cleveland and seattle for very important series this year that will have major implications for who wins the wild card.
They could meet either team in the playoffs.
Also – think about relief specialists like Rafael Perez. The yankee lefty hitters had absolutely no chance against Perez last year in the playoffs. None. He made them look awful.
Facing a perez, sabbathia, bedard – especially in the playoffs – i would want to have Ensberg on the team.
Those are all high leverage situations where his impact would far outstrip the value that woodward would have.
Ensberg is not just a minor upgrade on lefty hitters – he destroys lefties. He has a career .936 OPS against lefties. That is phenomenal.
And if Ensberg’s troubles last year were due to his shoulder injury in 2006 and he’s now recovered (which it looks like this spring) then his upside is enormous.
For the last guy on the roster I would much rather give it to a guy who can be used in high leverage situtations and who has the most potential value.
They can alway, always find a woodward type off the waiver wire or make a cheap trade. Those players are plentiful.
If ensberg has a good spring another team – like the mets – will scoop him up very quickly.
You won’t have a second chance to get a player with that much potential at roster spot 25.
payback is real simple.
get shelley and farnsworth to take a visit to tampa.
payback is real simple.
get shelley and farnsworth to take a visit to tampa.
CB I need you to the 5:41 5:42 posts I did, what’s your take on them
“So it’s less embarassing to take a bag of rocks from the Mets than guys who can actually help his team from the Yanks? I don’t