Today in The Journal News
-
- March
- 10
The Yankees and Rays remain at odds as Shelley Duncan issues some ominous words.
Phil Hughes has been nearly perfect this spring. This notebook also has an update on Hideki Matsui, some more cuts and progress for A-Rod and Jorge Posada.
————
Yankees play their first night game of the spring this evening as they face the Reds at Legends Field.
I slept until past 7 a.m. for the first time since Feb. 10 and now I’m working on some expense reports that I let slide.
The clubhouse opens at 2 p.m. Back later with the lineups and other news. Please check out the weekend coverage in previous posts.
This entry was posted
on Monday, March 10th, 2008 at 9:27 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
sleep until 7??? Pete’s a slacker!
The Yankees lose (big time) if Girardi can’t prevent Duncan from doing something stupid and possibly losing a right handed bat that has had a good spring and that the Yankees need.
I hope they rise above this Spring Training hero crap: TB is going to finish 4th in the division so they need to resort to these junior varsity tactics to suck the Yankees down to their level and generate excitement.
Stay above it, Joe, please.
I slept past 7 once. It was a fabulous experience.
“Hughes has let to allow a hit or run for Yankees”
You may want to double check that Pete, I think that should be Yet, not Let.
I’ll actually be able to watch the game tonight as I get the Ohio sports channels. It’ll be interesting to hear the Reds’ announcers.
Nice job for getting extra sleep! i like when people get some extra rest its better for everyone
Hey, I sleep until 7 almost every morning
I work from home 8 AM -6, then again 10 PM - 2 (with occasional stops at my favorite Yankee blog).
I’m with you, JMO. Stupid play by TB? Yes. Malicious? No.
Let #27 be the best revenge.
The game tonight is on MLB TV
It is clear that Joe needs to sit down with Shelley and tell him he better not do something stupid. We don’t need him playing hero and getting himself hurt.
BTW, I supported the alleged Phil/Melky/prospect trade prior to Andy’s signing, then opposed it post-signing.
I’m starting to think Phil and Melky will make me thankful Minnie never pulled the trigger for two 2009 All Stars (maybe even 2008).
Tonight’s game could be one of those great spring training match up games.
I think Homer Bailey is throwing for the Reds. He’s considered to have one of the best fastball’s in the minors.
Last year he was considered to be the second best pitching prospect in baseball behind Phil - some liked him more. Bailey had an up an down year but has a lot of talent.
Joba annd Bailey going in the same game. Should be fun.
The reds are also giving Jay Bruce a serious shot in the outfield. He’s widely considered to be the best prospect in all of the minors. He’s been moving between CF and RF. Moved from single A to AAA last season and hit 26 HR and had a .962 OPS at the age of 20.
The reds have some of the best young players in baseball. If they survive Dusty Baker (and Krivsky) they could be an interesting team soon.
i think we’re only one or two big homeplate collisions away from mlb doing something to prevent them. given what is being found out about concussions and the focus on them in the nfl and nhl, i think it will only take an injury to a posade, veritek or mauer and you might see mlb move to prevent catchers blocking the plate before they have the ball.
Heh, I just woke up.
(Yeah, I’m on Spring Break)
Jorge almost got his head knocked off last year. I think that should have been enough.
Spring break and sleeping until 10 am rules!
I love Shelley’s comment because it may be all that is needed. Just put the question in the Rays’ mind that Shelley may barrel into them.
CB I found out about the posting system for Korea, apparently the Yankees can make the move at any time but they may be gun shy, Wang came from Taiwan first pitcher from that area so the Yankees could be in Korea as we speak since they have scouts spread out everywhere.
The most notable Korean born pitcher is Chan Ho Park who was nasty back in the day and put Korea on the map. IDK if the Yankees are scouting Kwon Hyeok or Jung Jung Ho but IMO they should because both are younger than Kei Igawa and look like they have better secondary pitches as you saw in the YouTube videos.
Do you think Cashman has stopped posting because of Igawa ?
I don’t think the Yankees stopped posting because of Igawa.
I do think they are loathe to get caught up in the hype again and waste money on unproven players.
They have quite a bit of pitching in their minor league system. That pitching was put together for a whole let less than the 46 million dollars they have tied up in Igawa and the 100+ million dollars the Red Sox have tied up with Dice-K.
Seems to me, the money is better spent on the amateur draft and latin american free agents than on unproven talents in Asia.
Hype is a wonderful thing. However, as we have seen with just about every Japanese and Korean pitching imports to the major leagues, the hype has yet to matchup with the results.
bailey’s been mentioned in trade rumors on and off this winter. there has even been speculation in the past few days that he’s going to oakland (with votto) in a joe blanton deal.
SJ opinion on these 2
Jung Jung Ho LHP 20
cont.
Kwon Hyeok 23
SJ44
I’m all for signing proven young talent from Asia and raising them through our minor league system though
This way they have to fight through the ladder to prove themselves and get paid minimal for the first few years.
EY exactly, I’d rather do that than sign Asian imports to Major league deals, which hurts a club.
That’s the point though. They aren’t being paid minimal money.
They will get very large seven figure signing bonuses. In the case of some of the Japanese players, a significant posting fee.
You can sign an entire draft board with the money it will take to sign some of these overhyped guys.
If you are going to tie up high seven-eight figures on players, doesn’t it make more sense to tie it up on proven players?
Brandon,
You can’t judge anything off these videos. They all throw 95-100 (according to the people who pump them up) and they all are dominant in the videos.
Only problem is, they play against poor competition and they don’t throw anywhere near what’s being said about them.
I have yet to see a bad video of any prospect on You Tube.
Only way to properly evaluate players is to watch them in person. Anything else, IMO, is a waste of time.
If scouts look at these guys and think there is something there, you investigate further. If not, you let someone else waste their money on them.
The one thing the Yankees need to do in the coming years is not get caught up in the hype when it comes to overseas prospects. If they can avoid that pitfall, Igawa will be the last mistake they make in that area.
good point SJ, I just didn’t remeber seeing Igawa like those 2, but you raise a very valid point, I just hope we don’t miss out on big talent in places we may or may not be looking. I also understand for every Okijima there are 4 Igawa’s
I’m pissed we ended up w/ one of the four.
Hideki Irabu was supposed to be better than all of them. Even better than Dice-K.
he was can’t miss. He missed very, very badly.
IMO, becoming a successful major league baseball player is the toughest thing to do in sports.
In football and basketball, you have a college feeder system and no minor league system. In many cases, you start off as a multi-millionaire. That forces the teams to give you every opportunity to succeed.
If you are hyped enough (remember Mike Mamula?), you can make a ton of money on your first contract, be a bust, and never work another day in your life. That is, of course, if you invest the money well.
With NBA guys, you see some of them make millions of dollars simply because they have height. Mark Blount, an average at best NBA player, will make over 50 million dollars in his career.
For you Seton Hall fans, remember Sam Dalembert? He will make over 70 million dollars in the NBA career. He is an average (at best) player.
Baseball? You get a signing bonus. Then, you start in the lower minor leagues for 700 bucks a month.
Eight-Twelve hour bus trips, nobody at your games, and you have to work your way up the ladder.
You have to stay healthy, hope the team has a real plan for you, and hope you have great coaching along the way.
That’s just to start. Then, you have to hope that when you make the majors, 4-6 years after you are drafted in some cases, you have what it takes to stay there.
Its a game of failure and making constant adjustments. You have to have the mental strength, as well as the physical ability, to handle the ups and downs of the life.
Its not easy. For every Arod, there are hundreds of guys, some very talented guys, who for whatever reason(s) never make it.
Its a very, very tough business.
I think for Asian players, between the culture changes and the difficulty of playing MLB, its a very, very tough adjustement.
Kei Igawa led the tougher of the two Japanese Leagues in strikeouts twice in his career. On the surface, for those who live for stats, that seems impressive.
Yet, when you see his style of pitching, and how it translates to the states, its easy to see how the numbers don’t add up to MLB success.
JMO but, I’d rather see the Yankees avoid another Igawa/Irabu mess. Just keep doing what you are doing. Heavily scout and invest in US and Latin American prospects, and get the payroll down to manageable levels so you can make smart moves on impending free agents.
Let the other teams waste their money on “diamonds in the rough”. These days, they are few and far between.
that is true but also remember this SJ, over the last fall the Yankees became spenders in Korea some may see the recent signing of Zhang Zhenwang 19, and Liu Kai 19, by the New York Yankees as a tell that there may be talent in China, coincidentally those 2 also from the same area were signed out of H.S. as a business move, the Yankees spent on 2 19 years olds, Hitoki Iwase was just signed to a big deal at the age of 34 that is ridiculous but who knows what is next.
Or, they are goodwill signings. They also signed a couple of guys from Australia.
Sometimes, teams take flyers on guys. Those signing bonuses don’t even add up to what they paid Austin Romine. Taking those type of flyers on guys, I don’t have a problem with in the slightest.
Its the seven-eight figure investments on these players that are problematic. Those are the type of deals I prefer the Yankees avoiding in the coming years.
As far as players who are active in the Korean Baseball Organization, the best talent in the Korea lies in its pitching – particularly the Korean bullpens. Most of the top hitters in Korea are either relatively old Koreans who won’t be leaving any time soon or foreign guys brought in to add some punch to the lineup. The best example? Felix Jose, who is now 42, was able to find a starting outfield job with a Korean team. (Yes, the same Felix Jose who was last seen in America in 2003 is a starting outfielder, not a DH, for the Lotte Giants.)
The top reliever in Korea is Oh Seung-Hwan, 25, of the Samsung Lions. He will be allowed to leave Korea in four years – his age 29 season. So he still has plenty of time to make an impact in either the USA or Japan if he chooses. Oh boasts some killer breaking stuff combined with a fastball that tops out around 94 mph. His nickname in Korea is “Iron Mask” because the only time his expression changes is when his team wins the championship. He’s the type of pitcher a team would want to nail down a victory.
Other top relievers in Korea are Oh’s setup man, Kwan Hyuk, 24, and Woo Kyo Min, 22, of the LG Twins. Kwan Hyuk boasts similar stuff to Oh, but doesn’t have the attitude. Woo is more of a closer and could hit American or Japanese shores as soon as 2010.
Korea’s best starting pitcher is Ryu Hwan-Jin but he’s five years away from having to make any kind of contract decision.
-according to that he’d most likely come cheap SJ, not saying it’s a slam dunk but hopefully the options are opened IDK many LHP who throw that hard in the MLB but again who knows, I do know Yankees gear in Korea is extremely popular and those counties consist of 1.7 billion in potential customers, so Korea may already have an agreement w/ the Yankees and who knows what’s next-
Shelley’s not going to do anything in ST. I agree with the poster that said his words may just be enough.
To quote Pete’s notebook, “Minnesota manager Ron Gardenhire, a neutral party, said he understood why Johnson reacted the way he did when Cervelli blocked the plate. But he agreed with Girardi that such tactics are usually not considered acceptable in spring training.”
What Gardenhire is implying is that this is not so much on the player. Rather, this is on Maddon and I agree.
Maddon was right to try to back his player initially and deflect the criticism. But his reaction when asked if he needed to talk to Girardi was a real eye opener. It showed a lack of class and was not up to the standards of MLB. (Would Maddon have made light of the question if Torre was still manager? I bet he would have called Torre and apologized).
Zimmer has a point that if you are going to block the plate in ST, then you risk a collision. But that still didn’t give Johnson license to go that hard. And why did Zim open his mouth? Well, that’s Zim. Torre kept a tight lid on Zim but Zim still managed to say things that he would not have gotten away with if he were not a Yankee, a baseball icon and a special project for Torre.
Given 24 hours to reflect, the brouhaha seems less about the collision and more about Maddon’s attitude. The play was bang-bang and even Gardenhire wasn’t ready to string the kid up. But Maddon’s disrespect and failure to rein in Zim are as real an “injury” as Cervelli’s broken bones.
The bottom line, however, is how should the Yankees respond? Is it appropriate to get back at a manager by waiting 4 or 5 days and then “spontaneously” throwing at (and possibly injuring) a player in a ST game? Isn’t that the kind of thing Girardi said he didn’t think was proper? Or in this case do two wrongs make a right?
I hope Girardi thinks this one through and chooses the high road. If not, there’s an argument to be made that he’s no better than Maddon. Injuring a Rays player doesn’t bring back Cervelli. Moreover, why give the stupid Rays a motivational edge they can draw on all season? IMO, Girardi must be careful not to lead with his chin.
Good point on what it takes to make it to the bigs, much less stay there.
About 12 years ago I worked as a designer for a big Japanese design / construction company. We had a company softball team for fun after work, but a couple of the guys who did the construction work for the company were former AA / AAA players (about 10 years earlier) who happened to be making their living in construction.
Nothing wrong with that at all, they were great guys making a pretty good living. What I’m getting at is that I asked them what their chances were at making the bigs at any point int heir careers. They both said most guys at that level have about the same skills but the difference in guys who make it the difference is mostly mental. It was stuff like mental toughness, perserverance, aggressiveness, and a commitment to continue improving your game. One guy was a bit of a ladies’ man, and he said he was more focused on the ladies than the game and he realized that was the difference in his making it or not. He wasn’t complaining … just stating the facts. His wife was HOT.
The next level of ball I played after Babe Ruth was a somewhat competitive beer league softball league. These two guys were the sickest ballplayers I ever played with or against. Their arms were unbelievable … both were protohumans. When they played SS/3B and only one guy on the team wasn’t afraid to get in the way and play 1B - me. The dilemma I faced when catching their stuff was ‘improve your glove work or wake up in the hospital’. But it was actually real fun after the first week of getting used to it. It’s hard to believe these two guys would have been just anonymous bench warmers if they made the big leagues but that’s about as far as they would have gotten. But there are hundreds upon hundreds of guys just like them who barely make it for part of a season, if at all.
I really respected those guys but it’s hard to imagine any major league team laying out millions of dollars just to talk to their bosses about negotiating a contract if there’s so many guys at about the same level, and a few hundred regular ML starters are even better than they were. If the all except a couple of the overseas players that have been posted for at millions are only a little better than these guys, it’s not worth it to post so much money just for the right to talk to them.
We all dismiss some of the guys guys who don’t make it as having no talent, but if you’re an average guy they all are far better players than you realize. A guy like Igawa, as much as everyone (including myself) dumps on him, could strike all of us out (if he could get it over the plate) most of the time. But I see him on the same level as the guys I was playing softball with (only 10 years younger) and therefore not worth laying that much money out for.
PS - That softball league was in NYC, and the guys I played with were Americans. So it was our minor league level they played at not Japan’s. Still.
I am curious to see how Kuroda does with the Dodgers and if he also pitches up in the zone, like Igawa. Takashi Saito was signed to a Minor league deal to 500K and now he’s considered an elite closer, he says he has benefited in America from the relatively large strike zone.