The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Why is this so hard to understand?

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Mar 11, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Mike and the Mad Dog were at Legends Field the last two days and interviewed assorted Yankees. Listen to the clips on if you want.

I listen to Mike and Chris every day and find them very entertaining. But I just listened to their interview with Brian Cashman and wanted to put my head through a wall as they discussed Joba Chamberlain. They want him to pitch the 8th inning based on the 24 innings everybody saw last season.

What they (and many other people) don’t seem to understand is that Chamberlain was brilliant as a starter in the minors last season. Not good, brilliant. He was 9-2 with a 2.45 ERA. He was considered one of the best two or three starter prospects in the game.

The Yankees scouted him and drafted him as a starter. He throws four pitches and stands 6-2, 230 pounds. He’s a classic big, power right-hander. Using Joba as for one inning would be like saying A-Rod should be a pinch hitter because he’s such a great hitter.

Mariano Rivera will walk into the Hall of Fame. But the Yankees tried him as a starter in 1995 and he failed because he didn’t have enough pitches. Trevor Hoffman was a starter in 1992 and couldn’t cut it.

Unless he shows he can’t do it, Joba has to become a starter. It’s really that simple. Your best pitchers start. Look at this way: You need to get 27 outs to win a game. You want him on the mound for 21 of those or three?


The folks at AOL Fanhouse did an interview with me if you want to check it out.





147 Responses to “Why is this so hard to understand?”

  1. Mr. Faded Glory March 11th, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    Uh Pete if you’re expective Mike and the Mad Dog to have an intelligent opinion on sports, you’re probably going to have to wait a while…

  2. Mr. Faded Glory March 11th, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    Uh Pete if you’re expecting Mike and the Mad Dog to have an intelligent opinion on sports, you’re probably going to have to wait a while…

  3. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    Pete I think I broke my radio when I was listening to it. They don’t get it. They keep pointing towards paplebon as well. Well Paplebon had back issues (?). That is why they didn’t want him starting!

    They don’t know the farm system at all! They didn’t know who Joba was when he came up, and assumed that most fans didn’t. Which is totally incorrect. I started to follow him in the middle of the season, catching his starts on the internet when I could. They think everyone is as clueless as they are.

    Also did you catch them talking about innings, that pitchers are babied now and spouted of pitchers from the 70′s. Never talking about the Kerry Woods of the world.

  4. Skippy March 11th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    This is the problem I always have when the Joba starter vs. reliever debate starts. You hear people argue, “He has to be in the bullpen because we know he can pitch the 8th– we don’t know he can start.” Well, how are we ever going to find out if we don’t let him try to start?!! I don’t understand what is wrong with trying and seeing how it goes. Really, if it were up to the “we haven’t seen him do it so we don’t believe he can do it” faction, we would all still be huddled around Boston, riding in horses and carriages and wondering if the moon was made out of green cheese.

  5. Tyler March 11th, 2008 at 9:24 pm

    Pete, I’ve always thought you should go on their show. You could set them straight on a LOT of issues. Jon Heyman is a regular contributor to the show. I’m sure if you gave their producer a call they would have you as a guest.

  6. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 11th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    See, I take the high road and just don’t listen…

    Is it a coincidence I’ve been in a cheery mood, at least until the Devils forgot they had a hockey game tonight?

  7. Tyler March 11th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    1) They point to his ERA last year and say, “you think he can do that as a starter?”

    2) They point to Paplebon. Problem is, the Yankees don’t have Josh Beckett. Even if both Hughes and IPK pan out, the yankees are still going to have 2 vacant rotation spots next year.

  8. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    I am watching the interview from yesterday with Joe G. Mike is talking about the inning limits. Says well if you have an innings limit of 140 innings, why wouldn’t you just put him in the pen for 80 innings. WHAT?!! Than what happens next year? You would never be able to build him up to 200 + innings than. If you get him to 140 this year, than next year he is near 170-180.

  9. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 11th, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    Oy, someone email Michael Kay, it’s the “Three Amigos”

  10. george March 11th, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    mike-dog – if they ran the Yankees, the Devil rays wouldn’t be in last every year

  11. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    Of course he can’t. No pitcher has ever pitched to a .60 era! As a starter he’d probably pitch to a 3.75-4 era win 15 games.

  12. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    Rebbecca I told him to tell Kay not to call them generation trey.

  13. patrick March 11th, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    im mad people beat me to this but mike and the maddog only like to listen to themselves proclaim something is either a)great, amazing and unbelievable
    b) the worst thing ever or it stinks.
    seriously they love the sound of their own voices and hearing their own opinions which are mostly based on things that happened in the late fifties early sixties.

  14. YankeeJosh March 11th, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    Thank you Peter! That was a perfect post and I agree with it 100%. I wanted to break my radio listening to them today as well. Joba was a great reliever with a series of rules to protect him. Can he survive a full season, who knows? He has so many pitches and dominated as a starter last year that you have to try him there. It’d be idiotic not to.

    The Yankees have failed in the playoffs because their starters can’t compete. Melancon and Cox could be potential bullpen help down the road. Joba absolutely should be a starter. They talked about how he could lose speed later in the games, except, he’s been a starter and pitched in college. Chris talked about a bad game he had against Manhattan. Like one bad game proves he can’t start.

    You try him as a starter. If it doesn’t work, he can go back to the pen. The Yanks need a stud and Joba is wasted in the pen.

  15. Phil Hughes is Saved! March 11th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    Mike and Chris were even more stupid than usual today. They were driving me bonkers during that Cashman interview.

  16. Terrible Tom Paine March 11th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    I can’t remember the last time Mike and the Mad Dog made points based on reason or thinking things through.

  17. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    Joe said something yesterday that slipped by the two idiots. Said something like we’ll have to be creative in reference to the innings limits. I believe that they will have joba piggy back Ian or Hughes at the end of the season. (of course assuming everyone is healthy and pitching well).

  18. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    Saved- is that possible?

  19. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    AMEN PETE ! thank you I wanted to jump on a plane and strangle them w/ an audio cord until they relize he is a starter ! He is a starter !

    HE IS A STARTER !! the hell w/ what you saw ! :evil:

  20. OldYanksFan March 11th, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    It’s interesting that M&MD grilled Cashman hard (if not stupidly). When then talked to Jeter about his defense they absolutely kissed his azz. Not one remark about his poor ratings for years in a row and the public outcry to look at moving him to another position.

    Cashman must laugh at these guys. Cashman took a dump this morning that knows more about the Yankees then M&MD.

  21. sean March 11th, 2008 at 9:41 pm

    I almost drive off the highway screaming at them as they talk about Joba. The most annoying part is how incredulous they are. The act like the yankees are insane for even considering Joba as a starter.

    The point they keep harping on is how Mariano was the MVP for all their world series etc, which I agree with. BUT, they had great starting pitching back then to even get to MO. Thats the difference between then and now. Mariano has been a non-factor the past couple post seasons because they cant get to him. You cant have CMW getting shelled in a must have game, or Rocket coming out after 2 innings and expect to win a game, regardless of who the closer is.

  22. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 9:43 pm

    He also kept bringing up the college game he lost to Manhattan.

  23. FYI March 11th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    Mike-Mad Dog take the position that the games will be lost before Mariano gets the ball if Joba isnt the 7th-8th inning guy. Plus they look at the innings limitation on Joba and the other kids, plus they think Joba can throw his arm out as a starter.
    They have some points, but it certainly isnt a NO-BRAINER as they like to make it out. all their ideas are no-brainers in their own minds.
    They like to convince people they know more than the manager.
    I think a starter who can consistently dominate for 6-7 innings is more valuable than Joba in the pen.

  24. LibertyBelle March 11th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    Well, clearly you want to have your best pitchers throw the least amount of innings. It’s a great recipe for success. I mean, what’s so hard to understand about that?

    If there’s good local sports talk radio out there, I haven’t found it. I live in the land of 610 WIP, and it is brutal.

  25. WIlliam March 11th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    But Pete,

    Joba lost a game to Manhattan two years ago! To Manhattan! This proves he’s not a great starter prospect like Tim Lincecum! Mariano’s going to retire! Retire! We need to replace him! That’s a good job by me!

  26. gayle March 11th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    Didnt someone do a mock up of the three amigos with Ian, Joba and Hughes. SInce he likes the name they should email that mockup to Pete and he perhaps show it to them since they do like the name and it was a darn good poster mockup

  27. Rich March 11th, 2008 at 9:48 pm

    Thank you! My dad is a die-hard Mike and the Mad Dog listener, and he’s in the Joba-should-pitch-the-eighth-inning camp. I spent almost an hour arguing with him today about why Joba should start. I’ll be sure to point him to this page.

  28. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 9:48 pm

    man I ‘d like Cashman to point that they also wanted to trade Joba and Tabata for Eric Gagne, that’s all I’m really going to say about thier expertise.

    Oh but w/ Joba you got a guy who is lights out in the 8th inning and can be groomed to be the next guy, he sort of fell in your lap, he didn’t fall in our laps you moron we knew he could do that since he was striking out batters in A ball !

    not only can he do it in the 8th and 9th but also will 1 – 7 innings w/o losing a tick of his fastball, in the 6th ining as a starter he hit 98 mph then 100 to finish off a batter ! IDK what thier problem is, one would think that Nardi Contreras and Gil Patterson know what they are doing !

  29. Peter T March 11th, 2008 at 9:48 pm

    Just file it all away for when Joba pitches 8 shutout innings in some big game down the stretch and Mike proclaims how he knew he would be a great starter all along.

  30. sean March 11th, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    I just dont understand; this is their job. Youd think they would, I dont know, research and review things rather then just clearly talking out of their ass. Sports fans today are so much more educated than even 10 years ago. Most fans probably know more than the talking heads now. They need to hit the books before they start making even bigger fools of themselves.

  31. back bench March 11th, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    Please don’t waste any more oxygen on M&MD. Their collective contribution to any serious discussion of the Yankees ranks just behind elevator music.

    For entertainment, you might want to follow the parallel universe in Boston about the Santana deal. There are some good insights into just how many holes are starting to appear in their rotation.;tid=43680

  32. Fran March 11th, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    Russo is a SF Giant fan and he hates the Yanks. So I certainly don’t listen to any of his opinions about the Yanks.
    Mike claims to be a Yankee fan but sure doesn’t know a lot about the minor league players.
    I am sure that we bloggers here know a lot more about the Yankee players and minor leaguers than they do.

  33. Analyze That March 11th, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Someone please post the game line/ box score from “that college game” that Joba “lost to Manhattan”

  34. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    I think wolf posted the picture.

  35. Phil Hughes is Saved! March 11th, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    omg. That friggin Manhattan game they kept talking about. Drove me crazy.

  36. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Manhattan took a 2-0 lead in the top of the second inning on back-to-back home runs by Matt Rizzotti and John Fitzpatrick. Rizzotti hit his ninth homer of the year to right center and Fitzpatrick followed with his 17th round-tripper of the year to left-center off Nebraska starter Joba Chamberlain (6-5).

    It marked the first time Chamberlain has yielded homers to consecutive batters in his Nebraska career. It also gave the Jaspers a huge confidence boost.

    “I think our whole team just said, ‘We can do this and we’ve got the lead now and our guy (Cody) is on the mound and that’s all they’re going to get,’” Leighton said.

    The Jaspers picked up a pair of insurance runs in the eighth as NU reliever Zach Herr balked home a run and Matt Rizzotti’s soft single to left scored Mike Garcia. Both runs were charged to Chamberlain, who was relieved by Herr with two on and out in the seventh.

    Chamberlain pitched a season-best 7 1/3 innings, allowing six hits and four runs, all earned. The junior right-hander, who is projected as an early-round pick in the upcoming major league amateur draft, struck out eight and walked two in possibly his outing at Haymarket Park.

  37. james March 11th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    The Mariano Rivera failed as a starter story has made the rounds a lot lately. He only had 10 starts in 95 and was removed from the rotation when they traded for Cone and Sterling Hitchcock came back from an injury. He lost his spot in spring training in a fake competition to Doc Gooden the next year. He was never given a chance to start after carrying the bullpen in 96. Rivera was not a failure as a starter

  38. Tom March 11th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    I beleive the problem with Mike and the Dog is that they donot do their homework before they speak. Lets remember the players they tried to run out of town when they first came up, Rivera who Mike once told the Stick that he had the look of a deer in the headlights and needed to be sent down at once, Cano, Hughes, Petite, Melky, Posada etc. Today Mike says that he does not beleive that any one knows if Joba can be a good starter. If he did his home work he would first know that Joba has three plus pitches. In starts last year he was throwing as hard in the 6th as he was the first. In fact Bbb Montgomery the old Redsox catcher thought that Joba was the best pitcher he saw in the minors last year and would be a great starter. These views are also shared by Baseball America. You can’t disagree with them and provide facts to back your views up because they will cut you off. Is it not time that people stop listening to them.

  39. Frank Discussion March 11th, 2008 at 10:02 pm

    Thanks for that link, Back Bench. Seems there is some level of consternation in Red Sox Nation (rhyme not intentional). It will be interesting to see how Boston handles will handle a situation similar to what the Yankees faced last year at the start of the season. Hope Theo knows Clemens is available.

  40. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 11th, 2008 at 10:02 pm

    Gayle: YES! OMG! YES! I remember what you’re talking about, we so need to find it!

  41. Brian March 11th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    I’m not sure that Mad Dog even knows that joba was a starter in the minors.

    I was very frustrated listening to that show today, for the same reason.

  42. Ivan March 11th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    The problem with the yankees for the last couple years in the postseason, has been the starting pitching. Think about it, has the bullpen really killed the yanks in the postseason those three years?

    Second, Chris Russo needs to shut the hell up about the Manhattan game. Please shut up. Then he said that the yankees are using him as a starter because of 80IP in the minors. Hello, doesn’t it tells you how good he could be as a starter if it only took him 80IP? Also, if he’s going to bring the Manhattan game (that nobody cares about) then if he really did his research he would of known that Joba was well known pitcher in 05 when he carried Nebraska pitching staff to the CWS and going into the 06 draft was a top ten pick, (that’s right, up there with your boy Lincecum)

    I love when cashman caught Russo in his lack of knowledge when Russo who couldn’t shut the f@$% up about pitch counts and innings and then Cashman said to him about Rivera then, he’s only pitch 60 or 70IP compare to goose who pitch 130IP. That means Rivera is babied too uh? Then Russo was like we are not talking Rivera, next topic, knowing he was got.

    Hey Russo the game has change moron, get use to it. That’s how it is. Are they babied? Sure, but hey there is a reason Russo, go ask one of your fav Managers Dusty Baker that. After he one of the reasons he ruin one the more talented arms in years.

  43. Jon March 11th, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    Your big mistake is listening to anything they say at all. It’s weird, for some reason we are attracted to things that are so stupid they just anger us.

  44. SJ44 March 11th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    Don’t you understand Pete, there is no evidence that Joba can be a great starter.. None.

    Sorry………I was channeling Francesa and Russo from today.

    I had the same reaction listening to those two.

    I was at 9 of Joba’s starts last year. For those two clowns to say there is “no evidence” he can be a starting pitcher is moronic.

    Its beyond “radio schtick”. Its moronic.

    The guy was so dominant, it was comical.

    I was at one of his starts in Jupiter, FL last year when he was hitting 100 on the gun in the 6th inning. His slider was topping out at 90. It was one of the most amazing displays of pitching from a minor league player I have ever seen.

    Scouts who were at the game were laughing. The kind of laughs that denote you aren’t believing what you are seeing.

    Yet, Mike Francesa isn’t “convinced”.

    What’s funny is, as soon as Joba does start and has a dominant outing, Francesa will declare to the world he “knew all along” Joba would be a great starting pitcher.

    Sports talk radio is really the sewer of sports these days. Nothing but bile by emotionally flawed and ignorant hosts.

    What a joke.

  45. Bob March 11th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    I don’t know how anyone listens to those two. I would rather listen to bare metal being scraped together for 3 hours than them. Or really, almost any sports talk radio for that matter. 99% of what you hear is just complete stupidity.

    Pete, I love the A-Rod as a pinch hitter analogy.

  46. Doreen March 11th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    Wolf in PInstripes did the mock-up. He’s at on Pete’s list to the right.

  47. Tom March 11th, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    I also forgot to bring up that the other day the Dog said that Joba was not a high draft pick for the Yankees and was not though of much comming out of colleger. Good old Mike agreed with him. The fact was that he was supplement first round pick.

  48. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    SJ took the words right out of my mouth :lol:

  49. Ivan March 11th, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    Oh by the way M&MD, Since, you like to bring up all this stuff basically telling yourselves he can’t start, then why don’t you order a Baseball America Handbook, and look at who is the top prospects and you will notice that Joba is the best pitching prospect, the best yankee prospect, with the best rated Fastball, Slider and Curve.

    But hey he should be a reliever, base on 24IP

  50. Rich March 11th, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    I didn’t hear the Cashman interview, but I’m listening to it on my computer right now. I’m about to break my speakers. How many times must Cashman repeat himself before they listen?

  51. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    Rich it was a good 20 – 40 times they kept hitting him about the innings cap and Joba and how you don’t fix it if it ain’t broke !! that fat lard Chris Carlin will also do the same thank god he only has the dead hours in the morning to convince fans

  52. Annie Savoy March 11th, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    Neither Mike nor Chris know very much about professional baseball – and they surely proved that in the Cashman interview. In fact, they are behind the times in sports, sitting there reading the newspapers and hanging up on the callers. Of course a talent like Joba needs to start – apparently they never heard of him before he showed up in the 8th inning late last season. And, Mike considers himself a Yankee fan??? Also, they were as rude to Brian as they are to their callers.

  53. McLovin March 11th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    Can Joba pitch three days in a row,can he be effective two days in a row more then once a year,can he be dominate in the post season,can close two times in one day.

    Joba hasn’t done this but he can for Mike and the Maddogg to say throw him in the pen after just 24 innings is BS.He’s a statering prospect who at worst is a great set-up man.We have enough pitching prospects starting or Relieving.WE can afford him to go either way.

  54. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

    Brandon I stopped listening to wfan in the am when Cartin made the most disgusting sexist remark. I am far from a prude and can joke, but it was vile! I emailed wfan to complain and got no reply, what a shock!

  55. Doreen March 11th, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    That’s the link for the Three Amigos mock-up.

  56. SJ44 March 11th, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    The ironic part of all this is that the Yankees are handling Chamberlain the EXACT same way the Twins handled Santana when he first came up. He started in the bullpen, then graduated to the rotation, while the Twins kept his innings capped.

    Seemed to work out well for Johan. He has two plus pitches.

    Joba, at 22 years old, has THREE.

    Its real simple. You don’t put a guy with THREE plus pitches in the bullpen for his career.

    Even in the bizarro world of Mike and the Mad Dog, its a little much.

    All we hear is how the Yankees lack an “ace”.

    Without getting into the fact they won 4 World Series without an “ace”, they have two kids UNDER 23 years old (Joba and Hughes) who, if they stay healthy are future aces.

    Josh Beckett type of talents. Yet, those two clowns can’t seem to grasp that fact.

    Cashman diced those two up nicely today. They were so self absorbed, they didn’t even realize how badly he made both of them look today.

    That part of the interview was a fun listen.

  57. VTyankee fan March 11th, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    Its obvious that Mike or the Mad Dog haven’t even looked at this blog. Even though I’ve been a Yankee fan for years I consider myself a more informed fan now because of what Pete writes and also what is contributed by the readers of this blog. I thank you all.

  58. Ivan March 11th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    For the last couple years, they seam to go really hard on Cashman and not as hard on Omar Minaiya.

    With Minaiya, it’s like a ball and just chilling.

    With Cashman, it’s like they are interogating him.

  59. john March 11th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    I don’t think its as black and white.

    I can see Joba’s value as a reliever.

    As a starter he can pitch say 140 innings.

    Say half of those innings are starts that won’t matter… Either Joba gets blown out b/c he’s a young starter and is learning or the powerful Yankee offense annihilates some poor Royals pitcher and I could have started and got the win.

    The other 70 innings he pitches well in a close game and those are important innings.

    If he’s an 8th inning guy he ONLY pitches important innings. Maybe 60 or 70 of them.

    Anyway, Santana was mainly a reliever his first 4 years!!! That worked out, didn’t it? People need to calm down and realize his role this year doesn’t determine his career!

  60. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Jenn. I’m sorry that fatman made that comment :( and yes he is every way as stupid and prude as any host, I’d put him second to Stephen A. Smith

  61. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 11th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Doreen: Ah, we must get him to send it!

  62. anti-mussina March 11th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    mike and mike are just stirring things up so you guys will keep listening. you should know a thing or two about this, pete.

  63. Jax March 11th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Mike: “Joba landed in the Yankees lap”
    Really? You mean the Yankees didn’t scout,draft and develop him? Just one day the heavens opened up and Joba Chamberlain landed in the Bronx and has been destined to replace MO. Hmmm

  64. Enoch44 March 11th, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    If M & MD had their way, Bernie would still be in CF and Wang would have been traded for Freddy Garcia.

    They know nothing about baseball, and are constantly proven incorrect by actual events.

    They are beyond baseball stupid.

  65. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    Either you know which one I am referring to or he has said even worse things. :lol:

  66. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    he has said worse trust me

  67. Ivan March 11th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

    The thing that gets me mad, is that they say all this rediculous stuff to downgrade his capabilities to be a starter.

  68. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    Jax damn you made me spit out my Cafe Bustelo :lol:

  69. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    How does he get away with it, when someone like Stern was basically kicked off the radio?

    I read an article where the programmer director loved them. I would love to know their ratings, it has to have come out by now.

  70. EricNS March 11th, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    Mike and the Mad Dog ought to stand up more and ease the pressure on their brains.

  71. CanIGetAMooseCall March 11th, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    Pete is getting a little carried away. Is it really so clear that Joba is more valuable as a starter than as a set-up man this year? As we saw with Mariano in 1996 (setting up for Wettland), a great setup man can have as much value as any other pitcher on the team. Plus you have to consider how moving Joba to the rotation affects the pitching staff as a whole. If Joba starts, who gets knocked out of the rotation? Is that pitcher going to have any value pitching out of the pen? If not, you have to take that into account. As Dex said in The Tao of Steve, “It’s all connected, man.”

  72. anti-mussina March 11th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    you guys are always talking crap about them yet you listen to their radio show. good work guys ….

  73. frits March 11th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    “Using Joba as for one inning would be like saying A-Rod should be a pinch hitter because he’s such a great hitter.”


  74. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    They are going to move him to the rotation in the middle of the season. He will help supplement the other ‘kids’ innings.

  75. SJ44 March 11th, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    There isn’t a sports executive in town who is treated with kids gloves more than Omar Minaya.

    He got a complete free pass off the Mets collapse of last year.

    You look at his moves over the years and most of them make zero sense.

    He has an old team which is already breaking down.

    He has destroyed the farm system. Similar to what he did in Montreal.

    Lupica gives him a complete free pass but rips Cashman every chance at every turn.

    Mike and the Mad Dog? A complete lovefest with Omar every time he is on the show.

    Even Michael Kay fawns all over Omar.

    My question is, what has he ever done to merit such praise?

    He traded Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee for Bartolo Colon when he was with the Expos. Talk about a bad deal.

    The Mets are a joke. They are just a wannabe team. He loads the team with age and complains when Willie can’t get get them to play.

    Brian Cashman has had a much more celebrated career as a GM. Yet, its Omar who is given the benefit of the doubt on every deal he consummates.

    Something I will never understand from the media in NY.

  76. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 11th, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    Um I was listening the last two days because they were down at Legends Field and Yankee players were on.

  77. SJ44 March 11th, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    Most of us only listen to the show when Yankees are scheduled guests.

    They have been in Tampa for the past two days.

    Its an opportunity to hear what the manager, players and GM have to say about the team.

    You hope it involves intelligent baseball talk. From Jeter, Moose, Cashman, Pettitte, Cano, Arod and Lonn Trost, we got what we were looking for.

    From the hosts? Same ‘ol, same ‘ol.

    Not surprising. But, also the reason why I don’t listen to their show unless a Yankee is going to be a guest.

  78. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    SJ it was Sizemore,Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips for Bartelo

    no comment…

  79. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    anti-muss some of us listen to the show to see where the rumors begin. What a prospect can and can’t do, just last year people spoke on how Melky couldn’t hack it in CF, it was Fatcessa who put that to his audience the year prior about Melky Cabrera being a soft singles hitter and couldn’t shine Bernie’s shoe in CF, meanwhile in the playoffs he has a HR and has proved to be a spark plug when we need him.

  80. Wolf In Pinstripes March 11th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    Yep – I posted the “Three Amigos” at my site and Andrea posted it on her blog. I also posted it in the comments at Phil’s a few days ago and emailed him about it (which is probably among 40,000 emails in his inbox).

    So basically Phil announced the choice of nickname after I suggested it here the other day and did the graphic. I want my check, Phranchise!!! ;) 8)

  81. Phil Hughes is Saved! March 11th, 2008 at 10:45 pm

    That Three Amigos picture is great. :)

  82. Ivan March 11th, 2008 at 10:45 pm


    Hey, I am not the biggest Omar Minaya fan, but he has revive the franchise even though he revive the franchise by throwing money at the situation something that Cashman would get killed for when he did it. Not to mention he made trades to get Maine and Perez.

    So I think he should a good amount of credit

  83. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

    I listen that way when someone quotes his words I know where it came from.

  84. kevin March 11th, 2008 at 10:46 pm

    Completely disagree. If Joba can dominate in the 7th & 8th innings, the game is shortened, and Mariano has a replacement – maybe by the end of this year. I can see Joba and Mariano reversing roles near the end of the year or next year. I don’t see Joba being as dominant as a starter any more than Mariano would be as dominant as a starter. Hitters would get 3 or 4 looks at him a game and he would have to use all 3 or 4 pitches, while in the relief role he could cut it down to 1 or 2 pitches like Rivera. I usually agree with you, but not on this one.

  85. Gus G. March 11th, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    I’ll whip something together real quick in Photoshop. Been awhile since I’ve actually done something fun that’s not work related…

  86. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 10:49 pm


    TAMPA, FL – Christian Garcia reached a very important milestone in his rehab back from both Tommy John surgery and knee surgery when he faced lived batters for the first time in nearly a year and half on Tuesday.

  87. Patrick Bateman March 11th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    Pete, great post.

    We don’t see Verlander, Sabathia, Peavy, Beckett etc in the bullpen. Chamberlain will hopefully be the ace that this team has needed for a long time.

  88. Jax March 11th, 2008 at 10:55 pm

    That’s great news on Garcia.

  89. SJ44 March 11th, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    Joba Chamberlain is not replacing Mariano Rivera as the closer on this team.

    Not this year. Not ever.

    Joba has 3 plus pitches. He may already possess the best fastball/slider combo in baseball right now. His curveball is also a plus pitch. That’s why you make him a starter. He’s been a starter, and a dominant one, his entire career.

    Mariano was put in the bullpen because he only had one plus pitch. It was his last shot at having a role on the team. That’s what happens to guys with one plus pitch. They are put in the ‘pen.

    For Mariano, the move to the bullpen saved his career. You leave a guy like Joba in the ‘pen, you waste his career.

    Name me a team that has an 8th inning guy with 3 plus pitches. It just isn’t done.

    There isn’t a team in baseball that has a guy with Joba’s stuff pitching 8th innings. They are usually front of the rotation, #1 starters.

    It really is a black and white issue. Guys with Joba’s stuff are not guys you waste in the bullpen.

    You build them up to make 30 starts a year and be happy you have an ace.

  90. chris March 11th, 2008 at 10:58 pm


  91. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    SJ school him on Garcia ;)

  92. Joe from Long Island March 11th, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    !. With all the talk about Joba today, I noticed an item on Bronx Liason tonight. It claims that Brian Cashman sat Joba down and had a little talk. Details not provided, but it implied that it had to do with the facts of life in NYC. If true, I’m glad that someone is starting this part of the curriculum on being a professional athlete in NYC. Now if some of the vets, like, say Moose, take on a mentoring role, Joba would really have a support system available.

    2. Is it true that Gil Patterson has left the Yanks’ minor league operation? From what I’ve read, he’s really been a resource for the younger guys in figuring out their mechanics. Sounds like a loss. Does anyone have any info?

  93. Jeff NJ March 11th, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    “These are no longer Steinbrenner’s Yankees if they are worrying about the health of young pitchers.” Is this not the stupidest thing M&MD said today?

  94. Buddy Biancalana March 11th, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Smoltz has 3 plus pitches, I think.

  95. Ivan March 11th, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    A good example would be the Atlanta Braves with John Smoltz.

    We know the story, John Smoltz was a great starting pitcher, got hurt, went into the bullpen, became a great closer and went back to the rotation.

    This is a prime example of why a front-line starter is more valuable than a front line reliever. Think about it, Smoltz was a great starter and reliever and the Braves could of easily left him as a reliever for the rest of his career, instead, they use him as a starter becuase they knew he was more assistance for the team with him as a front-line starter.

    Now look we don’t what Joba is gonna be as a starter but we know what potential he has, and we not gonna know what he can do as a starter unless he goes on the mound as a starter to demostrate if he can do it.

  96. Jimbo March 11th, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    Everyone thinks Joba must “become” a starter, as Pete says (and forget those two arrogant and pompous radio jerks) – but how do you propose to spread out his 140-150 innings? We can’t bury our heads in the sand and stubbornly insist that he is used as a starter without proposing a solution to the innings limitation!

    Do you give him 30 five-inning starts, which would decimate the bullpen (anyone remember April/May 2007?), and then shut him down on August 26th?

    Do you skip his turn every few times around to save innings? That sounds way too speculative and it doesn’t seem like a good way to develop a young pitcher. Make two starts, then get 8 or 9 days off? Doesn’t sound good to me.

    Do you somehow work him on 5 days rest while keeping the others on their normal 4 days rest? That doesn’t work mathematically.

    He must begin the season in the pen and make the conversion over the final 2-3 months with enough innings left in the tank to make 5 or so starts in the post-season. He can be the opening day starter in the new stadium in 2009 if you like.

  97. kissbeavis March 11th, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    I love Mike and Chris because they are entertaining, but if you’re expecting intelligent or reasoned baseball talk out of them, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

    Mike is supposed to be this huge Yankees fan, but that extends only to the big club, not their prospects while they are in the minors. He wouldn’t know Mark Melancon from John Mellencamp. So as far as he’s concerned, Joba should be in the pen because he’s only ever seen him in the pen.

    Meanwhile, not two weeks ago, he was lamenting that the Yankees haven’t had a big time #1 starter like a Beckett in many moons, and it always comes back to bite them in the playoffs. Well … Duh! Hence developing Joba as a starter.

    And Russo is just too big a dope to be taken seriously. He is ill-prepared for the show in most days, can’t pronounce anyone’s name unless it’s something like “Charlie Brown” and he never lets facts get in the way of one of his ludicrous arguments. (I suppose Mike is guilty of that, too.)

    Don’t get me wrong, I prefer them 100% to the meatheads on Boston sports talk radio WEEI. But you just can’t take them as seriously as they take themselves.

  98. Joe from Long Island March 11th, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    I’ve given up on Mike and Mad Dog. I have a long drive home, and I’ve tried listening to them in past baseball seasons. Lately, I’ve just given up. I tune to loud rock ‘n’ roll instead. I thought of going to the FAN’s website to hear their interview with Cash, but I’ve had a nice dinner, and have no desire to get aggravated.

  99. Gus G. March 11th, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    Ok… here is a quick photoshop rendition of The Threeeee Amigos *ahem!*


  100. Gus G. March 11th, 2008 at 11:14 pm

    Oh, and ps… M&MD aren’t good radio. Not even comical.

  101. kaybli from March 11th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Fatso and Fruit Loops’ analysis is a joke. They’re only good because they get exclusives and access with players, coaches, and the front office.

  102. Jim Clark March 11th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    I suppose I should listen to Francesa and Russo to judge them fairly on this interview. But I seldom do anymore. Why bother? Broken clocks are right more often than they are. The distressing thing is they remain very popular in the leading market in America which is supposed to have the more knowledgeable sports fans. So much of the blame belongs on us for not letting WFAN know they should hire more intelligent hosts.
    The best argument for keeping Jobba the Hut in the bullpen is the Earl Weaver philosphy: young pitchers belong in long relief and spot starters for a year or two. That would be a more intelligent argument than a game against Manhattan two years ago (Did M&MD even see that or was it a little birdie who told them?).

  103. Peter Abraham March 11th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    I met Joe from Long Island at Legends Field this week. He was there with his wife. Very nice people. Joe and Mrs. Joe really love the Yankees.

    I think I’ve run into a blog reader almost every day this spring, even at the away parks. It has been fun to see so many of you. Thanks for saying hi and keep it up. You can never have enough friends.

  104. Mike R. - The Anti-Anti March 11th, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    AMEN!!!! Wait…that might be construed as religious…HERE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!

  105. kissbeavis March 11th, 2008 at 11:23 pm

    One more thing on Russo …

    He went after Cashman to the point of tedium on the innings limit thing today, and cited the early 70s A’s and Orioles as staff that threw loads of innings in four-man rotations.

    That’s all well and good, but should we just ignore the other examples of guys who flamed out from throwing too much, too soon? Why don’t you ask Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Mark Fidrych and the entire 1980 Oakland A’s rotation that Billy Marin ran into the ground (Matt Keough, Mike Norris, etc.) how they feel about just being thrown into a 230 inning workload.

    Seriously, who was a bigger sensation than Fidrych in his rookie year? Know how many games he started in 1976? … 29

    Know how many complete games …24!

    He thre 250 innings his rookie year, the didn’t accumulate 250 over the course of the rest of his career.

    So please, Dog. It’s not your team and it’s not your rear-end on the line. Feel free to move on to another topic any time now.

    It must be at least 10 minutes since you last griped about the Yankees payroll … go back to that.

  106. VTyankee fan March 11th, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    It seems to me Joba should be a starter. I’d rather know he’s going to on the hill every four of five days giving our team a chance to win than have him in the bullpen and no guarantees of his next appearance.

    There are also lots of posts touting his impressive stats as a starter in the minors. Also the games top relievers were considered starting prospects before they became closers.

    I’m also wondering what the plan for Joba is. Will he get a few spot starts before the All-Star break or will he just be inserted into the rotation? If there’s an injury will he bcome a starter more quickly? Or is this an innings based thing and he won’t start until he pitched enough innings and his arm is strong enough to withstands
    the demands of being in the starting rotation?

  107. Yazman March 11th, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    I’m curious — what’s everyone’s opinions of the OTHER hosts on WFAN?

  108. Dan March 11th, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    Jimbo: If you listen to the Cashman interview, you’ll see that that’s exactly what the plan is, provided the other 5 guys are all healthy coming out of ST. Joba will start the regular season in the pen, and will be shifted into the starting rotation in the second half.
    If one of the other starters gets injured in ST, it flips around; Joba starts the season in the rotation, then moves to the pen when the regulars are healthy again.

  109. YankeeJosh March 11th, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    A bit late but someone said:

    I almost drive off the highway screaming at them as they talk about Joba. The most annoying part is how incredulous they are. The act like the yankees are insane for even considering Joba as a starter.

    Their arrogance is the most annoying part. If Kay were on today, I might have listened to him, but Don LaGrecca didn’t provide a much better alternative.

  110. YankeeJosh March 11th, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    A bit late but someone said:

    I almost drive off the highway screaming at them as they talk about Joba. The most annoying part is how incredulous they are. The act like the yankees are insane for even considering Joba as a starter.

    Their arrogance is the most annoying part. If Kay were on today, I might have listened to him, but Don LaGrecca didn’t provide a much better alternative.

  111. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 11th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    seriously Mark Malousses is the only guy that makes sense on WFAN.

  112. Y's Guy March 11th, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    i like mike francessa. mad dog, i put up with. i dont expect them to be experts on the Yankees minor leagues, certainly there’s no reason for them not to know more, but they do have alot of other teams to cover. i know more than either of them about the yankees (mostly thanks to PAbe, you guys, chad jenning and mike ashmore, but those guys could easily school me about everything else, big east bball, knicks nets, devs, etc.
    when i want to know about the yankees, i come here, when i want to be entertained, i listen to them. Mike is a big yankee fan and though his analysis is not great, his memories of past yankeees is very good.

  113. Wolf In Pinstripes March 11th, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    Ummm… Gus – not sure if you were aware of this or not, but the graphic people had been talking about me doing and linking to in this thread was that same one. ;)

    Good quick photoshop work, though.

  114. Bronx Born March 11th, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    Hey Pete, Shelley and I will be at the game tomorrow..

  115. Y's Guy March 11th, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    a couple other things before i take off for 2 days of golfing in ocmd, first off, while almost everyone here was ready to start a war with tamap about cervelli, john flaherty said a couple of times that he was taught that anytime you block the plate, you have to expect to be run over. he pointed out how the jray’s catcher left part of the plate available to the yank’s runner specifically to avoid a collision, and said that was the norm for ST and pointed out how cervelli blocked the entire plate and left the guy no choice.
    not one of the ‘retaliation hawks’ said word one about it. I love girardi and since i go to more thunder games than yankees games, cervelli’s loss effects me alot, but i called it exactly the same when it happened. cervelli blocked the plate and paid the price, as he sould have expeted. i hope cervelli gets well soon, but the ray’s kid did nothing wrong.

  116. Y's Guy March 11th, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    the other thing is, teams only put good starters in the pen if they have no other choice, then the usually go get another closer the next offseason and put the guy back into the rotation. righetti, smoltz, brett meyers, pappelbon (remember they were resisting puttin him in the pen?) anytime a team thinks a guy can start, they start him and then go to the pen as a backup plan. guys who come up in the bullpen have already proven thier inability as a starter.

  117. Y's Guy March 12th, 2008 at 12:10 am

    just found our ross ohlendorf has a webpage:

  118. Y's Guy March 12th, 2008 at 12:13 am

    might wanna check this out before you go to ohlendorf’s webpage tho:

  119. randyhater March 12th, 2008 at 12:17 am

    Are people here actually arguing that Joba should pitch in the rotation this year with a 150 some-odd innings cap? And so when he hits his number round about mid-August, and we’re in the throes of a pennant race death match, we’ll send him home to Nebraska with a slap on the ass and a “see you next spring.” I’ve never heard anything so absurd in my life.

    He will (and should) pitch out of the bullpen all season. Anyone who thinks otherwise please name the person on the current 40-man who’s going to pitch 80-90 of the most important, highest pressure, smallest margin for error, innings of our season in his stead. Farnsworth? Hawkins? Bruney? Ohlendorf? Do I need to keep going?

    Even with Joba out there the current pen is at least an arm short, and I guarantee that at the deadline we’ll be butting heads with old friend Bill Smith over how many prospects he wants for Joe Nathan.

  120. Clutch Is Everything March 12th, 2008 at 12:21 am

    When will people understand that Mike & the Mad Dog are biggest tools on the radio out there apart from Mike & Mike maybe.

  121. Y's Guy March 12th, 2008 at 12:38 am

    haters never no crap anyway. joba will relieve 40innings and move into the rotation(permanently) in jul or august. there’s the ace they so derparetly need in the PS

  122. saucY March 12th, 2008 at 12:52 am

    the most shocking thing in this thread was Annie Savoy making sense! Good post Annie :D

    downloaded the cash interview earlier. he handled himself very well with those crac..umm, i mean clowns.

  123. AeroFANatic March 12th, 2008 at 1:04 am

    This is how you stretch out Joba :

    He starts in the pen as the bridge to Rivera. One inning every other game roughly, going to 2 innings as we hit the all star break.

    He gets about 40 innings of this pre-all star break.

    He goes to the minors for a week after the all star break and gets in some 4-5 inning starts. He comes back to the team for the 2nd half of the season and playoffs, with about a 100 inning ceiling. This is about 12-15 starts.

    This is very plausible, and in fact what I think the team will do with him.
    When he does move to the rotation in the 2nd half, Moose moves to the pen as the long guy and someone like Karstens/Ross/Farns then become the bridge to Rivera.

  124. Harry G March 12th, 2008 at 1:15 am

    randyhater: yr missin the point. Nobody’s arguing that Joba should only start this yr. We all know that there’s an inn limit & that’s y Girardi & Cash have ant said that he’ll start & relieve this yr. The argument is about Joba’s future. Mike Francesa never heard of Joba b4 he came up last yr, now he knows the best way to handle him? This pisses off actual knowledgable fans who actually know what’s goin on & have followed Joba & actually KNOW that he was dominant as a starter his whole life.

  125. Harry G March 12th, 2008 at 1:20 am

    As I was saying, it pisses ppl off when Francesa makes it sound as though he’s the smartest guy on the planet and the Yanks are crazy for even thinking of moving him out of the setup role. Well I got news for U Fran. U never would have gotten to see Joba pitch in relief had it not been for the abysmal state of the pen last yr. Have U forgotten how worried the Yanks were last yr to switch him to a reliver? U know why? Because he was one of their cornerstone “Starter” prospects. That’s why. Idiot.

  126. G. Love March 12th, 2008 at 1:23 am

    I’m gonna go on a rant here because this is a subject that gets me fired up.

    Mike and Chris were an institution. I used to cut class in high school just to sit in my car in the parking lot to listen them. I LOVED their show.

    So it pains me to listen to what they’ve turned into.

    I’ve stopped listening to them regularly because I can’t stand to listen to them at all. They make my brain hurt.

    I know Pete’s gonna take offense to this, but part of what made me tune out was all the damn Springsteen and Sopranos talk during the show.

    It got grating to hear them talk about going to concerts and reviewing setlists and breaking down episodes of the Sopranos like they knew anything about storytelling and drama and acting.

    I heard the show where they went track by track through the new Springsteen CD. That was excruciating.

    You ever hear them talk about movies around Oscar time? They are idiots. Complete utter fools. They like movies like Firewall better than There Will Be Blood.

    Now, I love some old Springsteen. Sandy, Jungleland and Thunder Road are 3 of my favorite songs, but I don’t love what being a “Springsteen fan” has turned into. Mike and the Dog are a big part that. To me, Dog, epitomizes all that is wrong with being a Springsteen fan today.

    A large part of Springsteen’s current audience represents people who equate going to Springsteen shows as status symbols.

    It’s become “the thing to do” if you’re over 35, of a certain persuasion and have a decent disposable income.

    They’ve turned Springsteen into Jimmy Buffet, the most talentless hack to ever have a music carerr.

    The baggage that accompanies Springsteen these days is the same baggage that used to accompany Jimmy Buffet.

    I’m digressing. Back to my point (if I have one)…

    Mike and Chris have lost their fastball.

    They’re a couple of aging conformists who think pimping Springsteen, The Sopranos and Billy Crystal one man shows make them relevant, hip and “in the know”.

    They get excited if Chaz Palmentieri calls in more than an athlete who is relevant to the arena they work in.

    When it comes to sports, they only have popular opinions. They only have conformist opinions.

    Here’s a few current and past one’s…

    Joba has to be the next Mariano to them because he’s only been a good reliever.

    Arod needs to leave the Yankees because Jeter and Torre don’t like him thus NY will run him out of town.

    Bobby Abreu stinks because he doesn’t give himself concussions diving into walls.

    These are the kind of blanket conformist opinions that they spout out.

    It’s all knee jerk and lazy.

    Their time has passed.

    I can’t wait until some programming manager figures out that intelligent passionate sports talk (i.e. what Mike and Chris used to do) without pandering to any audience, whether it be the middle class over 35 sect or the lowest common denominator, will get people to listen in droves.

    We only eat the slop because we keep being served it.

  127. Joel March 12th, 2008 at 2:54 am

    Yeah, randyhater… pay attention. As Cashman outlined, Joba is to start the season in the bullpen and then at some point switch to starting. 30-40 in the bullpen and 100-110 in the starting rotation. It’s a good plan, and it’s what’s happening, whether you like it or not.

  128. Travis G. March 12th, 2008 at 3:45 am

    the best way to get them to shut up is to stop listening. they’re intent is to draw more listeners by saying ‘interesting, shocking or controversial’ things. i get plenty of baseball/Yankee discussion online nowawadays that i dont need talk radio anymore. :D
    frankly, us online fans are 100 times more intelligent than those morons.

  129. gargoyle March 12th, 2008 at 6:17 am

    Bottom line with Francesa and Russo – they don’t actually sit and watch baseball games.

  130. born today March 12th, 2008 at 6:34 am

    Mike and the Mad Dog a are idiots. Pure. Simple. They came to my notice only a couple of years back. They were horrible from the go. Mike Francesca is one of the most bloated, ego-full know-little blowhards on radio. I hate when these sports commentators get success and think, “well, now I can do no wrong” and forget that they actually had to work hard to become the feted, overhyped ratings-monsters they’ve become. Mad Dog can work because he isn’t supposed to be taken seriously – he certainly doesn’t look it.

  131. Doreen March 12th, 2008 at 7:38 am

    Y’s Guy -

    M&MD don’t know enough about the Yankees, yet you assume, because you don’t know a lot about those other teams/sports that they can school you. I just think that they’re “skim the surface” type guys and that it probably is true about everything they cover. They have no time to go in-depth on anything. So, maybe they know a little more than you do about the other sports, if you don’t follow them, but you can’t be sure that everything they tell you on the radio is accurate or well-informed.

    They are still on the air because even people who hate them tune in. Many people tune in because for sports radio there is not much alternative, unless you want to pay for XM radio (which is great, by the way!). Every once in a while I cave in to catch a Yankee interview, but since I’ve been disappointed more times than not, I won’t be tuning in much at all anymore. (I’m home during the day, so I usually flip to YES and get to SEE them talk!)

    The only way a change will ever be made is if M&MD retire or if enough people decide they’ve had enough and stop tuning in. I don’t think either is going to happen soon enough! Plus, talk radio is ALL ABOUT controversy. In every subject matter. It’s that thing about things that people love to hate.

  132. Robert March 12th, 2008 at 8:11 am

    Mike and the Dog will stay on this topic because it causes a frenzy. The reality is that the need a workhorse in the starting rotation. Period end of story. The great thing about Joba is that he gives us flexibilty if we need it. Put him out there!

  133. kevin March 12th, 2008 at 8:12 am

    Hey Ivan. How many WS did the Braves win with Smoltz in the starting rotation? How many did the Yankees with Rivera in the pen? The argument that Joba has 3 pitches doesn’t hold water. Rivera threw 3 pitches too – but only 1 pitch (2 really) was great. By going to the pen, he was able to use that one pitch for 1 inning at a time and the result was greatness. Rivera wouldn’t have been as great in the starting rotation because he would have had to rely on his lesser pitches to some extent. Joba is similar. He doesn’t have 3 great pitches – probably 1 and a 2nd very good pitch. That gets watered down as a starting pitcher because everything has to be used. Joba, in my opinion, could be a great reliever but only a good starter. Just my opinion.

  134. Russell NY March 12th, 2008 at 8:39 am

    “the yankees are still going to have 2 vacant rotation spots next year.”

    I don’t think so. My guess (hope) is that Andy comes back to play in the new stadium and the Yanks push hard for Sabathia. I got ripped on last time I suggested the Yanks would pick up his big contract but please look at all the money they will be shedding this off-season and all the plus’ in bringing the big lefty to New York. The lefty-righty-lefty-righty combo of Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Hughes is deadly and I’ll be damned if they don’t make a move if he becomes a free agent. The Yanks didn’t sign Santana because they liked their young guys, it wasn’t so much a money issue.

  135. jennifer- Hip Hip Jorge March 12th, 2008 at 9:02 am

    Anyone want to bet that the hits on Ross’s site double or tripled?

    It is nice getting a peak inside the players life.

  136. Mr. Stats March 12th, 2008 at 9:30 am

    Hey Rich,

    If you spending an hour arguing with an old man about Yankees pitchers. Then I think it’s time to move out of your dad’s basement and get your place.

  137. Annie Savoy March 12th, 2008 at 9:43 am

    A follow up to my previous post. I believe the reason that Mike and Chris are so out of it is that neither of them knows how to use a computer. Perhaps WFAN needs to have some computer training for its’ hosts.

  138. Drew March 12th, 2008 at 10:10 am

    OMG Pete…M and MD have been driving me and everyone else I know nuts with their discussions about Joba. They are so unknowledgable and unathletic. They don’t know squat.

  139. Paul March 12th, 2008 at 10:35 am

    According to Riveraveblues, Cash also said that the Twins’ final offer to the Yanks for Santana was either Hughes, Melky plus two prospects or Wang, Kennedy, Melky plus one. Both of those proposals were unreal, especially judging by what the Mets actually paid for Santana. Frankly, and taking econoimics into consideration, I wouldn’t have traded Wang (several years at below free agent $ plus more durability) even up for Santana at $20M per. Nor would I have traded Hughes at 21 even up for Santana at 29.

    One other thought that nobody seems to have noticed. Perhaps Cash may be hedging his bets on a trade for a bullpen upgrade over Farnsworth/Hawkins but isn’t going to overpay if he can help it. We won’t know unless it happens, because Cash is a pretty good poker player. If he does that, then he wants to have Joba ready to start.

  140. Will March 12th, 2008 at 10:58 am

    “He doesn’t have 3 great pitches – probably 1 and a 2nd very good pitch. That gets watered down as a starting pitcher because everything has to be used. Joba, in my opinion, could be a great reliever but only a good starter. Just my opinion.”

    Did you follow him threw the minors last year when he was a starter? Did you get a chance to see him pitch yourself? If not, what are you basing this analysis on? Why would you not take the opinion of someone like SJ’s who actually saw him pitch as a starter and was there to see the scouts responses to how insanely good the guy was through 6 innings of work?

  141. Jonah March 12th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    My favorite part of the Mike and the Mad Dog “logic” is they discount his work as a starter in the minors by saying things like “How can you be sure if he has only pitched 81 innings as a starter?” and then go on to say something like “Don’t you think you have something here? his 24 innings last year were MAGICAL!”

    I’m just surprised they didn’t go down to the locker room and offer to pack Mo’s bags for him since they are so eager to push him out the door. I couldn’t believe it when I heard one of those two knuckleheads say Mo could be done this year! The season hasn’t even started yet.

    While I agree with Cash in being protective over prospect’s arms (just look at what happened to Liriano in Minn) I don’t really understand what their plan is outside the inning limits for their staters. Jeff Karstens? Good grief!

  142. Doug Niman March 12th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    I am of course open to finding out, but if last year was any indication, the alternative is to go into the latter part of the game with a decent lead that our lineup has worked so hard to post, only to have Krazy Kyle blow it in the eighth…

    I think that is the essense of the bullpen argument. The thinking is we let our offense do their thing and then protect their efforts by having Joba in the pen…


  143. Bronx Cheer March 12th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    “I am of course open to finding out, but if last year was any indication, the alternative is to go into the latter part of the game with a decent lead that our lineup has worked so hard to post, only to have Krazy Kyle blow it in the eighth…”

    And how the heck do we get a lead in through the seventh with the likes of Mussina throwing 5 barely league average innings? Desalvo? Karstens? Wright? Pavano?

    Rivera, best in the game, was worthless last April and May cuz our starters sucked. Joba+Mo would have been just as worthless.

  144. Kill-Schill(ing) March 12th, 2008 at 7:42 pm

    Agreed Pete. I can’t understand why these two guys are so willing to adopt dogmatic opinions about subjects upon they’re often so ill-informed.

  145. bodhisattva March 12th, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    Conspicuously absent from the Cashman Joba Debate was the mention of Melancon or Sanchez, or Cox. It makes sense that Cash wouldn’t bring them up – especially not Melancon and Cox – because he doesn’t want the expectation that Melancon could be this year’s Joba to be a public one, since he’s coming off TJS and has logged so few innings.

    They don’t want any pressure put on him, nor on Sanchez, also on the comeback trail from TJS and also, Cox.

    But if M&MD had done their HOMEWORK; they might say, are you less concerned about Joba repeating his 8th-inning role because of Melancon waiting in wings to assume setup? But they have no idea who they are. This would have made for a much more well-rounded, interesting discussion. It also would have been enlightening to hear Cashman’s public remarks on this.

    Because they could have quoted Yanks pitching coordinator/guru Nardi Contreras, who has not been shy at all about predicting Melancon’s meteoric rise to the Yanks bullpen this summer. A missed opportunity because they didn’t do their homework.

    Russo didn’t even know Cano’s old man pitched for the Astros. He asked him “Does your father play ball?”

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