You be the judge
-
- March
- 12
I haven’t found video yet, but here’s an Associated Press photo of Shelley Duncan’s slide into Akinori Iwamura.
Obviously the whole idea of his going for the glove is a fantasy excuse. But it sounded good.
What’s done is done. It wasn’t exactly graceful and well-executed, but the Yankees got their payback. Hopefully this is the end of it.
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on Wednesday, March 12th, 2008 at 5:48 pm by Peter Abraham.
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“Hopefully this is the end of it.”
————–
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight….
Nice clean play. It’s hard to be perfectly coordinated during a slide for a 6′-7″ man.
Betcha someone gets beaned next game.
Well, how about this angle then? We’ll really need the video I think.
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/1a5ca6fe-e544-4e8c-a346-1a7313fe2227.jpg
Ok - but you have to be fair. There’s another picture of this slide with Duncan’s leg lower. Before or after this shot? Can’t tell - need the video.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spbrawl0313pg,0,5292675.photogallery
I am really so ok with this.
The one time we need a video…
I’m really disgusted with this play. I understand that running over the catcher is uncalled for, but spiking someone is just plain wrong. It’s a despicable act and has no place in baseball. I just think it was a disgusting play, we had already hit their best prospect and future all star third baseman with a pitch. This is just an example of Shelley not being the sharpest knife in the drawer.
I have no doubt it was a dirty slide. It really doesn’t matter to me.
This is Joe Maddon Baseball. Blood and Guts baby!!!
March or not, this is what you do.
Criminal? No. Just Rays Baseball at its finest.
He doesn’t like it? Complain to Selig.
I bet you the guys on the team pay his fine and cover (financially) his suspension.
That kid can play on my team any day of the week.
Peter, to be fair you should upload the other photo too, where Duncan is not ‘kicking the balls’.
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/1a5ca6fe-e544-4e8c-a346-1a7313fe2227.jpg
We had *not hit their best prospect with a pitch Matt. It barely grazed him and wasn’t intentional. The umpire overreacted, and Shelley tried to find a way to get even regardless I guess.
I was at the game and it didn’t look that bad at the time, it looked like he was trying to go for Iwamura’s glove (not like thats a great idea however).
Maybe someone could tell the home plate umpire to calm down a little bit, however. I think had he not overracted over the HBP in the first inning, everyone might have been a little calmer.
Iwamura should consider himself lucky that he only get a cut on his thigh and not, well, where Duncan’s foot is headed in the picture.
Gomes made a comment how this isn’t what the Yankees do, or how they operate.
So happy to have you, Joe Girardi. Lesson learned: these aren’t the Yankees you think you know.
I’m more disgusted by Cervelli being in a full arm cast for 10 weeks than I am about the slide.
Sorry but, I think Iwamura will be able to play the next game for the Rays.
Cervelli doesn’t have that luxury.
Players slide high and hard all the time when stuff happens between the lines.
Its Rays Baseball baby! March matters!
Geez the slide was over at the point that picture was taken…it is decieving but I’m tired of the Yankees being whipping boys…Cash…get the Hanson Brothers on the phone…
No doubt it was an intentionally hard slide - but it’s not like he was aiming as high as the photo Peter posted suggests. You can tell by that photo that it was taken after the ones posted by Travis and Lori, because you can see the dirt mark on the knee where Duncan first hit.
I’ll be ordering the #17 jersey tonight.
It’s good the Yankees are letting the league know that they’re not going to passive anymore. I’m sick of our guys being hit and run into without any retaliation. I’m liking the Joe Girardi era so far.
Pete, you really don’t sound like a Yankee fan anymore.
Its about time! Now if we can do the same to the Red Sox when they hit Jeter …
Good spot Clare! Looks like he came in, hit Iwamuri on the knee then rolled to the right to get up, while Iwamuri moved in. Again, probably was still a pretty hard slide (and probably uncalled for) but until I see the video, I don’t feel like I’m going to lose any sleep over it. Hey, it’s Shelley being Shelley. And I hope we see him in the dugout when the season opens!
If March matters for the Rays, what matters for the Orioles? February?
This is just normal good hard baseball. If Maddon doesn’t like it, he can cry to his mama.
I like the fire this team is showing. And even though it was slightly dirty I don’t care. Paybacks a b*tch. And now, the next time a team wants to drill a Yankee, now they know their will be payback, which is a lot different than it has been in recent years.
This day has seen 4 things established :
1. Shelley does not wear a size 6 1/2 shoe.
2. Sales of No. 17 shirts will pick up.
3. Joe Maddon is delusional.
3. The Girardi style of baseball has arrived.
Mird,
Pete is NOT a Yankee fan, he has said so before.
Rebecca, LOL.
Even Ty Cobb would have called that a dirty play.
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Mission 2708
March 12th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
If March matters for the Rays, what matters for the Orioles? February?
Rebecca, I’d say June. The draft is about all the O’s have left right now.
In all fairness to Shelly, when he came up last year I remember a similar play. He was stealing second and the throw beat him but he kicked the ball out of the second basemen’s(maybe shortstop’s) glove. so there may be merit to his story.
Shelley was going for the knee. Hey Pete on Sportscenter!
Pete on ESPN! Woo hoo!
I saw the replay on Fox-Boston.
I thought the dirtiest part of the play was Gomes running in from the OF and pushing Duncan in the back.
If Shelly saw him coming, he would have got decked.
PETE YOURE ON SPORTS CENTER RIGHT THIS SECOND!!!!!!!!!
what is the over/under on how many players on the Yanks and Rays miss games as a direct result of this new feud?
I saw Zim out there…where’s Pedro when you need him Lol
All the Yankee news around here is too biased… ESPN, these blogs, MMD, and even Michael Kay’s horrible announcing. I just like it when Singleton is commenting.
Pete on ESPN!
Hey I missed it, what’d Pete say?
YOU ARE ON SPORTSCENTER
Great job on Sports Center Pete!
Great work on _SportsCenter_ just now, Pete! Those were some informative answers.
1. Definitely a dirty play. Because he knew he’d be out when he took off.
2. The barreling of Cervelli, while legal, was also a dirty play.
3. IMPORTANT!!!! Look at the photo very carefully. Shelley actually restrained himself by pulling his knee up. If he wanted to he could have put Iwamura flat on his back. Shelley actually slid past the bag.
4. If a picture is worth a thousand words, I wonder what Iwamura’s saying, and in what language?
what, no live play by play blogging of Pete’s appearance? What’d he say?
Pete I hate the sort of crap that Shelly apparently pulled but come on, be fair, you can’t judge the event based on one photo. Let’s wait for the video. Then we can finish piling on. I hope this is the end of it also but I have a nasty feeling there is more stupidity to come.
It looks like BJ Upton was also charging towards 2nd base.
Gomes is kind of a wuss though. He was charging full speed from the outfield and Shelley barely moved. Shelley on the other hand should have just bowled over Iwamura, his spikes barely did anything to Iwamura. Bleh…
He basically described everything that happened while “SportsCenter” showed the video at least five times. I think he said Duncan was a bit out of line, the HBP wasn’t very good if it was intentional since it just brushed the jersey, Gomes came sprinting in from right field. Interview by Brian Kenny.
Thanks mel!
I have to agree with SJ.
Peter, you REALLY need to show all of the photos instead of just this one.
I just saw the video on ESPN and it was a normal, hard slide.
Rays, you got what you SAID you wanted! Play hard!!!
Go Shelley! Maybe other teams will think twice now before going for Jeter and plunking A-Rod every chance they get! Bring on the Sox!!!
ESPN has shown the video 30 times already. They are quite thankful for some ST drama involving the Yankees.
It’s not just players that get ready for the season in ST.
The ESPN “analysts” can also get ready for the regular season and be in full “Yankee bashing” swing when it begins.
Methinks all this questioning of whether it was a dirty play or not is almost identical to the questioning of whether Clemens took steroids… can we just play baseball?
G.R.
Shelley knew what he was doing. Let’s not act like he didn’t. Still, he sent a message and at least for his purpose… it’s mission accomplished.
Pete isn’t a Yankee fan, he just plays one on the internet.
Pete is allowed to disagree and still be a Yanks fan.
Some people think Shelley was out of line. Some think it was justified.
The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.
Let’s hope this fizzles out somewhat and we can play good baseball.
Forget the Yankee bashing, ESPN’s Syracuse bashing is…
…oh wait. They’re not actually bashing ‘Cuse. It’s true. We beat Marqquette and Georgetown, and that’s it.
Dave,
I didn’t say he didn’t know what he was doing. I saw the video. His foot never even got where it LOOKS by that photo that it did. Like SJ said, Iwamura is not in a cast! I’ve seen this play in baseball many times over the years, I’m no spring chicken!
I’m VERY glad to see this team with some fire and ready to protect each other!
Go Yankees!
Rebecca,
Thanks? That wasn’t a recap of Pete’s appearance on ESPN.
Those were my “thoughts”, which you are welcome to anytime. lol.
Pete is a sportswriter. He’s not a fan. He doesn’t pretend to be one. But is he one heck of a writer, and an even better blogger.
But Pete, if you are going to ask us to be the “judge” you need to present all of the evidence, not a biased, this makes a good story, version of the evidence.
The pictures are tough, but there is no video to be found on the internet yet. Guess I’ll just have to wait to get home and watch SC.
All the years I’ve watched our players get plunked with impunity.
I am proud to see the Yankees make a statement that we are not going to stand for this.
Anybody watching PTI on ESPN? Kornheiser said it was all Girardi’s fault and he should be fined $100,000!
Anyone see the photo where Duncan is standing alone, facing the Rays and gesturing like “Bring it on” ? I swear, it looks like the four Rays players to the far right are cowering behind the umpire ! LOL
I am thrilled to see that the Yanks are sitting down anymore. How many times have they been yucked (under Torre) and never done anything about it?
All I can say is here we go! This is going to be a great season!
Oops.
Are not sitting down anymore.
perfect slide….great job…LOVE IT !!!
If it stops the crap that other teams give us, then the end will justify the means.
Now, the umps are a whole ‘nother story.
Fran - they also thought the first hitter of the game was plunked intentionally…which we all know is not true. It’s easy to give opinions when you don’t need to know the facts
It comes as no surprise that all the TV outlets in the Tampa-St. Pete viewing area are painting Shelley as a thug and Gomes as a good guy. All replays show that Gomes blindsided Shelley after the slide. He never saw it coming and could easily have sustained a worse injury than Frankie Cervelli did. No comments were given by Maddon on camera.
G.R.
sure, I just think Duncan intended to raise the spikes knowing exactly what it would do. It wasn’t an honest, hard slide. It was a calculated move. I am not judging it, but it should be clear that it was intentional in an effort to send a message.
Lori,
good points.
His foot was not as high as that picture would tell you. Watch the video and you will see that the initial contact was less than a foot high, barely at knee level. That picture is NOT th e one to judge Peter and you should know.
This one is better because it’s the actual contact:
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/1a5ca6fe-e544-4e8c-a346-1a7313fe2227.jpg
mel: Oh. Well, thanks anyway
It was a clean slide. ahahahahahah, a clean slide I tell ya!
There will be plenty of opportunities to respond better. A hard slide to break up a DP, or a play at the plate. This was over the top. But its done, hopefully. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Duncan and Gomes get into it at 1B a la A-Rod and Varitek as a final denouement. Hopefully it won’t turn “borderline criminal”.
Wanted to share this link to a photo from a Rays blog -yes, that’s Gomes.
http://www.draysbay.com/
Loks like video as well.
GREAT JOB ON SPORTSCENTER PETE!!!!!!!!!!!
Gustavo,
Agreed. Thanks for that pic. Shelley definitely raised the spikes a little but nothing like some people are trying to insinuate.
No problems with what Gomes did. He is doing what he should do. Protecting a teammate.
No problems with what Shelley did. You wanna play blood and guts baseball in March, stuff like this happens.
No problems with the Yankee bashing on ESPN. At least, Post-Hank rant about their bias, they no longer try to couch it.
Bring it on. We want the full hatred from ESPN this year. Don’t leave any stone unturned.
We don’t want any of their guys trying to sound impartial. Especially, when we know the agenda in Bristol.
I don’t think the Yankees care what ESPN has to say about them.
Plus, if it gives Pete more face time on Sportscenter, I’m all for it!
I mean in the wrestling shot down the page.
In response to Tony Kornheiser:
That is the kind of response that is necessary when you have players from the Rays running out of the base path to tackle an unsuspecting catcher!
It’s fun to argue with misinformation.
Kornheiser: “Fine Giradi $100,000 and if it happens again, $1 million.”
And I thought he was an idiot on Monday Night Football
Dave,
That’s what I meant by a “hard” slide. He knew what he was doing, but it is certainly NOT what those pictures are trying to make it out to be.
Why do Yanks have to mess with the Rays in Spring training. Yanks don’t want to stir the Rays. It only makes them play harder against the Yanks and in tight AL East if Rays take more than a couple of games then it will be a problem.See what they to the Yanks in 2005 and what they did to the Sox in 2006(After the Tavarez Vs Crawford).
And by the way if any of think this is over…wait until the season starts.
I was there sitting in the front row of the first base side I had a completely unobstructed view of the slide and yes Shelley slid hard and high but it did not seem that even touched Iwamura. Then Gomes came running in from the outfield on a sneak attack. No one in the infield at first was complaining about Shelley. But the benches emptied quickly when Gomes tried to beat on Shelley. Not very successfully I might add.
You see those kind of slides a hundred times a year. If it happened during the regular season, nobody would pay attention. The only reason some people are crying fould is because it happened in spring training. Well, guess what? That’s how the Devil Rays want to play their Spring Training games and I for one applaude Duncan’s hustle and grit.
G.R.
point taken and agreed.
I know that this has been asked a few times but does anybody know why Meacham and Long were ejected? What did they do?
from the drays blog
Forget the merits of Saturday’s play at the plate involving Elliot “Helliot” Johnson, the Yankees got their “revenge” in the first by pegging Evan Longoria with a pitch, but for Shelley Duncan it wasn’t enough. Oh no, he had to try and high spike Akinori Iwamura
are you kidding me?
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=c5cb46e7-89c0-4ec3-b94f-79cef142bb45
Fran - They were found guilty of having an inter locking N and Y on their caps.
Pete,
Did you find and watch the video before you went on ESPN? I’m not questioning your journalistic ethics, but if you didn’t that’d be like Selig commenting without reading the Mitchell Report or the grand jury testimony on Bonds.
I’ve got to say that the slide was dirty, but not as bad as you made it sound before, Pete. What upsets me about this (and some bias might be coming out here) is Gomes bum-rushing Duncan from behind and the umpire’s quick trigger on tossing everybody but Gomes and Duncan (they deserved it although I’m not sure Shelley deserved it until after the whole fight broke out). This isn’t over. It might have been if Gomes didn’t try to tackle Duncan (which he failed miserably at)… this is gonna last all year long.
OK. Now let’s hope they’re done with this crap and move on before somebody else gets hurt like Cervelli.
welp, mets played this game with the marlins last year and it didn’t work out too well
Hard to see the slide from that angle on the video - but Gomes completely blindslided Duncan. My goodness. Definitely not called for and definitely grounds for suspension IMHO.
Oh yeah, Cervelli. I wonder if he’s rather embarassed with all the fuss?
Pete is a Sox fan. Not trying to be a jerk, because he is very objective on here, but it is what it is.
Mike R. - Sounds like the right explanation to me!
i like how Gomes bum-rushed Duncan from behind and Shelley barely moved. another vid:
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=c5cb46e7-89c0-4ec3-b94f-79cef142bb45
If Pete is a Sox fan, he does a pretty good job of hiding it.
I have little doubt that this was a dirty play (much like the one that took Cervelli out for 10 weeks this past weekend) but I have ZERO problems with it. Just the quotes alone from the Rays players about how this “isn’t the Yankee way”. I’m sick of this team being the doormats for the rest of the league. The days of taking shit are over & I for one couldn’t be more pleased.
Travis,
“He’s a brick…house”
On a further note, I don’t think the “Rays” have gotten this much media coverage in their history. They should send the Yankees a thank you note.
dana,
And in related news, Hank Steinbrenner is in hog heaven.
Heres the video
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=c5cb46e7-89c0-4ec3-b94f-79cef142bb45
Chris Berman and all his silly player names may not feature this game on ESPN this season but if so he should say Jonny “Blindside” Gomes.
If you look at that video, it looks like Gomes planted his face into Shelley’s back. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gomes came away hurting more than Shelley!
If I was the judge I’d say Shelley’s got to get his leg up there about another half a foot higher before making contact.
As for Gomes, he was protecting a teammate, so no complaints there. Hard nosed March basball. March Maddon-ness.
As for Gomes again, someone should show Shelley an old NBA video clip of what happened to Rudy Tomjanovich when he ran up behind Kermit Washington in that fight. Maybe he could learn a little from Kermit, you know … just in case someone tries to blind side him like that again.
If Beckett, Matsuzaka, Varitek and company don’t take note, there could be a few cracked batting helmets and a melee if they continue their HBP status quo from the past several years.
I’m sorry… but this is all too much drama for mid-March.
(1) The first inning HBP wasn’t far off the plate. The home plate ump overreacted.
(2) Girardi and the Rays’ manager are equally culpable with respect to unnecessarily inflaming the situation. I’m surprised that Girardi initiated the personal attack on a fellow manager (after the Cervelli play).
(3) There’s no need to dissect Duncan’s slide. It was dirty, and it was meant to be. No problem. But I wonder how many people who are posting know that it was a TAG play? This wasn’t a DP grounder - it was a TAG play. You don’t slide through the bag with your spikes up (on a TAG play) unless you’re trying to send a message. So accept the slide for what it is. Don’t try to calibrate the “degree of dirtiness.”
(4) As A Sox fan, I’m thrilled that the Yankees are now in an official vendetta with the Rays. The Rays have been throwing at the Sox for at least the last 5 years. You will find that your little tiff with the Rays will NEVER end. It’s like invading Switzerland - seems like it should be simple, then you get bogged down in all of those passes.
A blood feud with the Rays isn’t worth the trouble - believe me. A lot of energy expended, but nothing positive transpires.
So it’s OK for us to blindside someone too?
Yeah, as everyone is saying it was a dirty play but the Rays should have been expecting it. It’s not like this came out of nowhere. Hopefully the teams put it behind them.
And RE: Brian (Red Sox Fan) I think it was good for Girardi to call out Maddon for that because that play hurt one of his catchers. Girardi was a catcher himself and he’s showing that he will stick up for his players when he needs to.
You guys obviously don’t watch Kornheiser much. I didn’t see part of the show today, but I’m sure he said it in a joking tone. I running gag there is to “prosecute to the full extent of the law!”
Be the judge on what???!! There is no reason to post the picture. Everyone knows that it was done to get back at the Rays. They were dirty so Duncan was dirty back. I have absolutely no problem with what he did. The little boys want to play with the big boys so the Yanks will retaliate.
Comment on the commentator on the video. Takes out the second baseman? WHAT!! the guy wasn’t even hit, he stepped back. Please!
And i love how he says Gomes comes in from the outfield. How about calling it like it is, he blindsides Duncan!!
Difinitely though, when you see the pic showing Shelley’s spike around knee level it’s a lot less dramatic than Pete’s choice of picture later as he slid through.
Shelley was definitely sending a message and intending to make contact, but it’s not like he was going for the face or the groin.
But if it continues all year eventually someone on one side or another might. Then it’s getting out of hand.
But you don’t fine someone “100,000 then fine him a million if it happens again” for something like this. Puh-leeze.
Shelley’s first collision at home is going to show up on the Richter scale. Hopefully it can appear as a ‘clean’ play, even if parts of the catcher get carried off on different stretchers.
The broken wrist caused by the Johnson (who?) play worse than it was. The cut by Shelley’s spikes made the play worse than it was.
Spiderpig, you are wrong on this one.
Ranting guy,
I think the Rays’ catchers are going to catch the brunt of this. I wonder if they’re “proud” of their boy Johnson.
I don’t think it was a dirty slide, I know he meant it to be. I don’t have a problem with it, he barely touched the second baseman.
How ridiculous. Shelley’s slide was hard, and, if he knew he was beat by that much (5 feet), could be called unnecessary. But the video shows he did not lift his leg “stright up in tha air” or “at [Iwamura’s] throat,” as Pete said. And the pic Pete posted here is very misleading. One way or another, there’s no way a borderline dirty slide like this calls for a tackle in the back from the right fielder. Sure, they’re playing the “fight for your team” game, so I can see the Rays playing it up and going after Duncan. But if you can watch that video and call Duncan a thug and Gomes a hero, something is very wrong with you.
That was the slide that people have been going on and on about!??!!!
Oh man, Pete, you had me believing this was a drop kick of some sort.
Your credibility - well, maybe your perception of reality - just took a big hit in my books.
The slide wasn’t as bad as the picture implies.
I think Duncan should have used the excuse that he was trying to slide in like A-Rod. A-Rod picked his foot up and dodged the tag, so maybe Duncan was trying the same thing?
All of this over-analysis is absurd. Pete, you are fueling the fire and your comments are just as absurd as well. Have some dignity and cover the game, instead of being complicit in the drama that leads to umpires being over-reactive, fans being hyper-sensitive, and dunderheaded players more confused than anything.
If you watch the video clip, yeah it as a hard play. No doubt. Message being sent. But it didn’t seem as hard as the play that broke Cerveli’s wrist. Ejection? Nah.
What concerns me is how quickly Gomes got there. Without seeing where he was positioned as the play unfoilded, it’s hard to say … But I’d be suspicious that he was already running over there when Shelley was halfway from first to second.
imo i say Duncan should have taken gomes out, that was unessecary… suspension or not…
i would pay to see Duncan hurt Gomes
First let me say that I said when the first incident happened it was wrong in ST. So was this by Shelley if intentional. However it was not as wrong as Gomes was and it was not nearly as bad as Maddon made it sound. That guy is a joke. I live in Tampa and he is a laughingstock for all baseball fans in the area.
I wish the Yanks saved the retaliation for the season…I just don’t like endangering others during ST. If we do much of this ST will be like preseason football games where the stars hardly ever play.
Oh and has anyone found out why the Yankees coaches were ejected.
I don’t like this, mostly because we are the New York bloody Yankees. They are whatever, nobodies, they are not worthy of a rivalry with our team.
Call me snobby, but I think our team’s focus should be on #27, and shouldn’t be wasted on giving some second-rate crappy team the kind of PR which they otherwise wouldn’t get.
This better ends now, otherwise it’d be like Springsteen dragging out a meaningless spat with Nick Lachey. It’ll be pathetic.
If you http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=c5cb46e7-89c0-4ec3-b94f-79cef142bb45
different angle. I like that Joe G was right in the middle of it!! I love that man!!
I’m tired of pitchers hitting Jeter and A-Rod and getting away with it. I’m glad we have an enforcer now in Shelley that will teach teams to be more wary of hitting our players in the future.
I wonder if the people calling it a dirty play have watched the video. It is no different from plays you see all the time during regular season. I think people just want to call it dirty because of the context of the situation. In isolation, the play is unremarkable. It was a run of the mill hard slide.
I like the analogy Dee.
It looks like Duncan will definitely be hit the next time he faces a TB pitcher, hopefully it’s Kazmir and he gets thrown out. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gomes gets thrown at either. He straight up tried to tackle Duncan while he was still on the ground. I guess if I was going to go after a big guy like that that’s how I’d go about it, but I wouldn’t pretend to be a tough guy afterwards. The Devil Rays are a AAAA team that will be competing with the Orioles for the last spot in the division. No rivalry here.
Well it’s suppose to be March Madness anyway…
Just got started a little early.
Geaux Yankees!
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this above, but BIG PETE was on Sportscenter tonight talking about the incident.
Nice job Pete. Next time make sure to give out “shout out” to all us blog readers!!!!!! LOL
On another blog, a few people pointed out that Joe and Shelley’s comments were a dig at Joe and Zim.
The Yankee roster, like the Red Sox, is dominated by 30+ multi-millionaires. After the ST cuts, there will be precious few Shelley Duncans on the team.
It’s all well and good to talk about initiating a new, more hard-nosed team attitude, where instant physical retaliation will be the order of the day. But I doubt that Jeter, ARod, Matsui, Posada, Abreu, Pettitte, Giambi, etc. really feel like getting into daily scrums with 25 year old, minimum salary Rays players (or anyone else, for that matter).
It’s all well and good to applaud Duncan’s bellicose behavior, but there’s a reason that the Yankees were perceived (by their own fans) to be a “soft” team in the past - and it’s not Torre. Giradi is in a honeymoon period right now, but this isn’t the NHL. The Yankees aren’t spending $200 million/annum on goons, and that fact is a key determinant of the team culture, and collective behavior. The fact is that the Yankees want this all to go away (now that they’ve shown their mettle), but the Rays don’t. Believe me, they don’t.
The Sox have the same problem in their dealings with the Rays … the two teams are just from different sides of the track.
Brian,
just curious, and no offense, but how many times are you going to post the same thing?
we get it. the sox and the rays have a ‘thing’. you feel now the yanks and rays will too.
ok.
Again, I was there. It was no way looking as bad as this photo. Everyone over reacted especially Gomes. There was no call to do what he did. Shelley barely grazed the guy. On a side note, Rays fans are more than entirely ridiculous. There appeared to be more Yankee fans in their stadium. But starting with the Rays goofy mascot and listening to their fans, it was just so bush league. I had the “privilege” to be sitting near the cowbell kid. Don’t ask. What a jerk.
But back to Shelley, it really was not that bad and perhaps you did have to be there to see it.
The video should diffuse the hubbub, certainly not increase it. It really doesn’t look like Shelley’s slide was all that high and you certainly didn’t see any of the Rays infielders react angrily. If anyone was at fault here and deserves a suspension it is Gomes, who sprinted in from his position and attacked a player who had his back turned to him.
Another soft move by the soft (devil) rays.
when people talk about Gomes they say he was protecting his teamate but isnt that what Duncan was doing
Oh yeah, Brian is back!
Please tell us ignorant fans how the sport of baseball works. What’s the matter, did they give you virtual wedgie on the boston.com boards again?
Or are you just here for the friendly give and take?
Thanks Boston Dave.
Dan, seriously.
What if Duncan had run out of the dugout and tackled Johnson in the back after he plowed over Cervelli?
is that protecting his teammate too?
rbizzler,
Do you mean hullabaloo?
What a freaky day. We have no video, no audio so we were dependent on a slow and inaccurate Gameday and a slow and innacurate Pete (j/k!).
Pete gave his POV, so we went on what he said. Most of us were shocked and dismayed. But as time went on, the shock wore off and we were able to see the video. Wrong? Yes. Dirty? Yes. But it served it’s purpose and baseball will resume tomorrow.
Farnsworth vs Gomes should be a pretty interesting regular-season at-bat. Then maybe we’ll see how much of a tough guy Johnny Gomes really is.
Wait until Dice K hits A-Rod for the nth time. Pedroia won’t be able to have kids!
The Tampa players seemed to be annoyed that Duncan got mud on his otherwise perfectly clean uniform … look for another 96 losses for the Rays this season.
jk -
Pedo-roia may not be old enough (biologically speaking) to have kids anyways.
Boston Dave thats wat i was saying if a yankee tackled Johnson they would’ve made a huge deal out of it but no one seems to care that Gomes attacked Duncan
I think THIS is the most interesting story of the day.
Mel,
hullabaloo works fine too! I just preferred hubbub at the moment.
Either way this ‘incident’ is much ESPN-fueled ado about nothing.
Has anyone heard how Stump is?
Hey Brian the Red Sox fan: when was the last time Switzerland was invaded? Was Don Zimmer involved?
I’m watching yesterdays game now. Gosh Coney talks fast. Someone needs to tell him to breathe!!
Oh, and my preferred word for this is kerfuffle.
I emailed mark Feinsand to ask why the coaches were ejected he said that according to Long the umps thought they were provoking the situation.
rbizzler - I’m from RI, where there is a sizable, and vocal, Yankee minority. Whether in my golf league, social gatherings, dinner parties, card games, etc. the talk often turns to baseball, and a dialog inevitably ensues between Sox and Yanks fans.
Perhaps we have a different environment. In RI, baseball talk involves two sides, and the respective fans fully expect some give and take. Fans don’t go to their respective corners and agree among themselves regarding the various topics concerning their team. They move to the middle of the ring, and the ensuing conflict and tension is expected, and welcome.
Sorry if it offends you.
Jennifer -
Did Gomes tackle Stump too?
The video tells a very different story than the picture at the top of the post. Shelley clearly went out of his way to intimidate Iwamura, but in fact Shelly made little or no contact and was decelerating as he went into 2d. He didn’t continue at full speed, or come up out of his slide into Iwamura. I’ve seen A-Rod make some pretty aggressive slides into 2d to break up DPs and this was nowhere near what Rod does. Based on the video, there’s no basis to suspend Duncan. Throwing him out was a judgment call in an attempt to cool off he retaliation b.s., but that should be all for Shelley.
IMO, Shelley was wrong to try to send an additional message. The first inning pitch settled the score as much as it was going to get settled. Having said that, however, Gomes is a chump and a punk, further evidence of why you shouldn’t get down in the gutter to fight with these jerks. Gomes was not protecting his teammate. Duncan was not mixing it up with Iwamura, the play was over. Gomes either fell, tripped or just overshot. Gomes should be fined and suspended for joining the fight. (But if they fine or suspend Gomes, they will probably do the same to Shelley for the sake of symmetry).
Nick in SF,
I dunno, but I think that Senator Mitchell was involved in the peace talks. He told the Rays to leave the Sox alone and start picking on the Yankees. He cryptically said he’d make sure they were vulnerable for the attacks.
As others have said today sent a message to all of Baseball.
Jennifer,
Well, I guess it’s a good thing that Kevin Long didn’t have a bat with him.
I agree Murph. Saw it first hand and at first no big deal. Yeah Shelley came in high and hard but very little contact if any made. It was only when Gomes decided he was don quixote did the benches clear. He definitely blindsided Shelley. But not sure that Shelley even felt it.
Compared to Leiter, I think Coney sounds like Ben Stein.
On the Girardi/Duncan comments, I can’t believe anyone is actually taking them seriously, especially Shelley. They clearly just took Maddon’s and Zimmer’s and the dude that ran over Cervelli’s comments and changed a few words around.
I have to admit the only thing that has surprised me today is that there are actual Devil Ray fans in existence.
Okay guys, question time: I have tickets to the Big East Tourney for tomorrow, Friday and Saturday. Now that Syracuse is out, I kind of want every team to lose, except Marquette because we beat Marquette.
So, who do I root for? Who do I root against?
Bronx Born,
There was a cut on Iwamura’s thigh.
I think that Shelley compared the tackle to getting bit by a mosquito.
Ranting Guy
Stump got hit in the face with a thrown ball this morning.
Say it ain’t so,
Calling them fans is probably an insult to the definition. I have never seen such in any other ballpark.
Brian,
this is a Yankees blog for Yanks fans to discuss the team. Others are obviously welcome (maybe not trolls) but dont give some ridiculous analogy that claims we are less than objective and this should be a forum for fans of all teams to come, shake hands, and solve the world’s problems.
YOU are the one who seeks out a Yankees blog. Don’t whine about it when a majority of the people here have a similar opinion based on a Yankee bias.
get a clue.
It was at the advice of Rays special coach Don Zimmer that Jonny Gomes enrolled at the Pedro Martinez Academy of Blindsiding.
Bronx Born, but they have BLOGS!
A suspension to Duncan would be ridiculous. He didn’t even touch the guy. Oh, btw, someone please remind me what did Pedro get for slamming Zimmer to the ground?
If Shelley’s move was intentional, it was a dumb move.
When Johnson crashed into Cervelli, we got a guy injured for 10 weeks, and no one got disciplined. When we “retaliated”, no one got put in hospital, but our guys got ejected.
I know retaliation is part of the game, but the point is to do damage without getting caught, not the other way around.
Jen - Yeah I just saw a pic of that. Hope he’s OK soon.
Brian the Red Sox fan: speaking solely for myself, it doesn’t bother me at all that you come here for intelligent baseball talk. But please keep in mind that this is a board primarily full of Yankee fans, so of course it’s a lot bigger than the Rhode Island you know and love. Also, I don’t think anyone suggested that the Yankees would be a team of Shelley Duncans. One Shelley Duncan is enough.
Mel: I’m sure that when Senator Mitchell mediates, he’ll find a way to implicate Eric Gagne to look objective.
I love it when Seinfeld moments make their way into sports….
To quote Joe Maddon “It’s contemptible, it’s wrong, it’s borderline criminal. I can’t believe th[ey] did that”
Seems like Joe’s rippin from the pages of Jackie Childs…
“Its lewd, lascivious, salacious.. OUTRAGEOUS!!!”
I’ve seen the videos. One thing I don’t understand: why is the slide into Cervelli clean and Shelley’s little wimpy slide somehow dirty? The Cervelli slide was nasty and if that is legal, I think baseball ought to think about the its legitimacy. Shelley’s slide was ill-advised and poorly executed, but dirty? Please. The worst thing in this whole kerfuffle was the Gomes blindside tackle. He really could have harmed Shelley. Shelley’s head snapped back a bit too dangerously for my take. I hope his neck is OK. I’m sure Iwanamora’s leg is scratched up–but that’s baseball. Isn’t that what everyone is saying.
Oh, and those Tampa fan blogs are scary. Those people are out for Yankee blood. Alex and Derek blood. I don’t like that.
Brian,
I have many friends and know many people from R.I. being that I went to school in MA (Umass) and they are the furthest thing from ‘fans’ interested in a respectful give and take.
Anyway, that’s not what you come here for. You come here to politely lob grenades at people and then act incredulous at the fact that you passive aggressive crap gets called out.
Feel free to act all innocent and instruct us as to to baseball etiquette and the history of the feud b/t the sox and rays (which I believe was started by Gerald Williams and pedro).
First Pettitte’s elbow, now it’s Giambi’s back, injuries are piling up …. next, my money’s on Hughes or/and Wang.
Can we close this subject for now and get back to discussing how the Yankee pitchers performed today. I need an SJ expert witness fix.
BTW, my quote of the day:
“Asked by a fan what position he’ll play, Crystal quipped: “DH — designated Hebrew.”"
mel,
I actually find it hard to believe that he got cut by Shelley’s slide. From where I was sitting there was little or no contact. As for Gomes not sure it was even up to mosquito strength.
Say it ain’t so, have you tried to read their blogs? Oy. I live down here I do not know how you can root for this team.
“There was a cut on Iwamura’s thigh.”
mel:
not to go all lawyer on you and all but… Iwamura says there is a cut on his leg. Doesn’t mean there is one or that it came from Shelley
I need independent proof. Maybe McNamee knows something…
…testing…
Giambi’s back - where did you read about that?
By the way, on the subject of the Spitzer kerfuffle (sorry), here is a link to Kristen’s myspace page:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=69041220
and a NYT story on her:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=69041220
This is totally on-topic, don’t we need to figure out whether she’s a Yankees fan or a Mets fan?
lemme try this again:
I have tickets for the Big East tournament tomorrow, Friday and Saturday, but my team (syracuse) is out.
Who do i root for?
Who do I root against?
Between Shelley-Iwamura there was no fight. Of course it was a hard slide not as bad as the first pic I saw (above) might suggest. There wasn’t going to be a fight. Shelley didn’t look for a fight after the slide, and neither did Iwamura. Iwamura was even one of the guys trying to hold Gomes back afterwards. I’ve seen harder slides not result in immediate ejections, fines or suspensions. You’d have to ask the players but I’d guess the benches probably cleared because of what Gomes did and not (at least not directly) because of what Shelley did.
If anyone gets fined/suspended it sould be Gomes.
Only Gomes.
Aches and Pains Fell Two More Yankees
This blog doesn’t like me very much. Or the filter, anyway.
I think what Shelly did was wrong but what Gomes did was much worse… the umpire had allready ejected Shelly. Gomes was sooooooooo wrong for tackling Shelly.
The Rays are a low level team stuck in arguably the most difficult division. They and their fans have this “unjustly oppressed person” mentality. That’s why all this bloodthirsty talk about a ST game is beneath the Yankees and their fans.
While I do not condone what Shelley did today, rest assured, however, that if the Rays practice their WWF brand of baseball and hit Jeter or A-Rod or - - god help them Po - - in a regular season game, There Will Be Blood.
Thanks, Cy
Do posts with links automatically have to await ‘moderation’? I just posted a link to the myspace page of Kristen the Spitzer-$$$-pal. With baseball content too, of course.
Ranting Guy (no whining),
Nothing happened until Gomes made his move.
Iwamura probably didn’t appreciate the slide (I wouldn’t expect him to) but apparently his first impulse was that he didn’t think it was worth fighting over either.
Cy Endfield: MINOR injuries. As in, not serious.
Dats the point yo, Bronx
Rebecca, the bloggers like you even if the software is out to get you.
Woe be the Ray who makes Duncan angry!
Ranting Guy:
Shelley Duncan is a brute and a meathead. Good thing he’s not a very good player and will be sent back down to the minors by May.
SJ is on a ROLL today…i LOVE it!
Forgot to mention one thing — The Yanks Won!
Here we go again:
Everyone, and i mean EVERYONE is predicting that the Red Sox win the East.
Does someone want to tell me how a 51-25 second half last season got ignored?
That is 100 wins + if that pace is even almost maintained.
The Yankees only helped their offense, with Giambi, Damon, and Abreu all in good shape. Jeter is also in better shape than usual. Shelley should improve at least somewhat, with Ensberg a good backup at first.
Their pitching staff has been strengthened if only because it has been made deeper.
The bullpen hasn’t gotten any better or worse with immediate perspective, but that could and will change one way or the other.
With the Sox offense being far inferior to that of the Yankees and with the Sox rotation severely weakened without Schilling, how are they still favored?
Beckett , DiceK, Wakefield, Lester, Buchholz does NOT sound any better than Wang Pettitte Mussina Hughes Kennedy Chamberlain.
Maybe a little better. But not good enough.
A couple of things strike me here.
First, because of not letting it go in the first place, the umpires were “on alert” - waiting for the Yankees to retaliate. That’s why the quick ejection of the pitcher for grazing Longoria.
Second, I’d have to see another video of Duncan sliding into second to be able to judge if he did anything differently than he ordinarily does. Graceful Shelley Duncan is not. But, again, there’s that quote in the paper to the effect that “won’t know until I get between third and home.”
Third, the Yankees do not need the distraction of this “bad blood” now with the Rays. They have enough trouble playing them to begin with the last couple of years. And the Rays have beat them twice in ST so far, and yes, I know ST games don’t count, but still, the best revenge is to beat up on your opponent by scoring runs, not running into people or hitting them.
Fourth, the Yankees will never get the benefit of the doubt from any umpire anywhere. Which is to say, next time they play Tampa in the regular season and one of their pitchers comes too close to a Ray, expect at least a warning immediately from the umpires, if not an ejection outright.
There are repercussions to these acts of stupidity. Many of you sound thrilled at the prospect of the Yankees getting dirty. I am not. You don’t take a step down a level, in my opinion. And none of you have any idea what Girardi may have said in the privacy of the clubhouse to Shelley Duncan. He may have told the media that he needs to see video before he talks to Duncan, but I would be willing to bet he’s already spoken to him.
Yeah, I know I sound cranky, but frankly, I’m disappointed. And I realize I’m in the minority. Also, I don’t think it’s so hot that Duncan gets to miss 4 games - if he had kept his mouth shut earlier in the week, perhaps the umpire wouldn’t have thought it was a pre-meditated dirty slide. (Which, as I said, I reserve judgment on, pending comparison with previous slides by Duncan, a not-so-graceful ballplayer.)
MyrtleBeachFan:
Picking the Red Sox to win the division is not some crazy idea, they are the defending champs and won the division last year. There are a lot of maybe’s in your analysis and the same one can be made for the Sox.
GO DUNCAN!!! I LOVE IT!!!!!
The Yanks gave some payback for the slide that broke the wrist of the catcher. It’s part of the game.
GOOD for the YANKS.. Take care of your teammates. Remember the old days - even when we were winning or not - pitchers pluck Yankee hitters and little or no response. Pedro plucking Jeter and Soriano; no close shave for ortiz or any Redsox. Clemens’ tight pitch upset Manny one year. Last year, Joba whizzed two pitchers over Youklis’ head and got his attention..
Good for Duncan… Some team spirit and no one got hurt. Shelly
This is the last time Jonny Gomes will have an opportunity to shine in front a sold out home game crowd of 6,607.
Even during the regular season when the Yankees come to Tropicana Field for 3 visits, the venue seldom draws more than 25,000 fans for a domed capacity of 39,000.
Players with non-contending teams have said that they’ve heard people fart from 20 rows back in the 2nd level seats in front of a sparse crowd of under 10,000.
Most laughable is that the Rays are lobbying hard for a new venue.
Longoria said the ball only grazed him, and added, “I didn’t feel like it was intentional.”
Doreen:
The play that broke the catcher’s wrist wasn’t a dirty play - it was baseball. The results were harsh. Yanks stood up for their teammate - not dirty, per se. No one got hurt. And Gomes stood up for his teammate. All’s fair.
Kevin I beg to differ.
This is the last time Jonny Gomes will have an opportunity to shine in front a sold out home game crowd of 6,607.
I’d bet that maybe there were 500 Ray fans.
The rest were Yankee.
Shelly is awesome. The kid can flat out hit and he puts every thing he has into the game. He shows so much emotion with his forearm smashes and is just so much fun to watch. He brings a fire to this team that has been missing since Paul O’Neill retired. Not to mention the way he hit last year and how he has torn the cover off the ball this spring. He is gonna be on this team for the whole year.
The number of Yankee fans at the Rays stadium today well out-numbered the Rays fans.
A note for those who dvr the games.
I don’t know how everyone’s dvr works, but next Tuesdays game is listed differently, so unless click to record it, it won’t.
The number of rats in the trop out number the number of rays fans period.
Doreen - I agree that I don’t want the Yankees to turn into a team that plays dirty and takes cheap shots, but I am glad that they showed some fire and answered back. I sometimes got very frustrated under Torre as Yankees would get hit intentionally and the Yanks did nothing about it, or when Manny or Ortiz would hit homeruns and stand and pose and never get pushed off the plate. I think that the Yanks needed to show some fire. Maybe this will now keep other teams from pushing them around.
jennifer- You mean the last time he plays in front of 6607 people in a home game outside of playing the Yanks or Sox
The interesting thing for the Rays is aday where they lost 2 starting players probably for the year Rocco Baldelli and the pitcher (blanking on his name) and they seem more concerned about this. I say they have larger issues to worry about.
I’m done with this mickey mouse rivalry. Listen up Yankee players: Don’t forget who you are, the pinstripes that you wear. Don’t sink down to their level.
This might have been posted here already but in case anyone missed it as I did…
Over at Phil Hughes’ blog, he said he, IPK and Joba have decided on “The Three Amigos” as their preferred collective nickname. Hopefully Michael Kay will stop forcing that lameness that is Generation Trey on us.
There is an interesting quote in an espn.com article about the “brawl”: Spring training brawls are rare, but there was one at the same ballpark in 1987 after Boston pitcher Al Nipper hit Mets slugger Darryl Strawberry with a pitch — payback for Strawberry’s slow home run trot in Game 7 of the 1986 World Series.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280312130&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
Doreen, I respectfully disagree. I don’t think the Yankees stepped down a level, I think they stood up for themselves. Baseball isn’t a sport that rewards the highminded turning of the other cheek.
Also, I’m not worried that “bad blood” with the Rays will make it harder for the Yanks this season. Last year, with no “bad blood”, the Yanks barely took the season series. For whatever reason, the Rays were able to get “up” for those games and the Yanks sometimes weren’t. Maybe now that won’t be a problem.
Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not celebrating this whole back-and-forth, I wish none of it had happened. But it did, and I don’t think the Yanks have been diminished at all.
the more I see that video clip ESPN and M&MD need to ST*U there was nothing dirty about that slide, unfortunatel one pic caught a horrible angle, but the clips which are out now like the Paris Hilton sex archives show that was a hard nosed play, DON’T LIKE IT MADDON TOO FREAKIN’ BAD !
I posted three new photos of the interior of the new stadium here: http://slidingintohome.blogspot.com/2007/12/new-yankee-stadium-construction-update.html
Hope you like them.
It looks pretty clean in this picture:
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/apphoto/1a5ca6fe-e544-4e8c-a346-1a7313fe2227.jpg
Gomes hitting Duncan is like a fly on the wind shield of an 18 wheeler. Duncan did not even fall.
Check out the poll on http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=nyy
I want to know who the idiots were who voted for Kei or Sean. Obviously they just voted for the name.
Dirty slide? Probably.
Necessary evil to let the league know the Yankees aren’t going to be scared to battle anymore?
DEFINITELY!!!!
When I see the picture, it looks really dirty. But the replays, it just looks like Shelley sliding awkwardly, which he often does, because he’s awkward.
Come on Pete, you should know that you can’t judge an entire play by one still image.
If you watch the video, his foot slides upwards after a LOW impact with Iwamura’s leg. He didn’t spike him up high, his foot went right at GLOVE LEVEL and ended up higher due to catching the leg. But whatever, don’t let what actually happened get in the way of “journalism”.
Apparently what’s good for the goose isn’t good for the gander.
I have no issue with people picking the Sox to win. They are a very good team. I definitely think people are underestimating the Yankees though, which is fine with me. Let people be surprised.
Most of my friends are Red Sox fans and they all say “I don’t think Phil Hughes is going to be that great”. They are basing their opinions on his starts late last season. Let them be surprised.
For once the Yanks aren’t the favorites. Not because they aren’t as good as the other teams, but because people, in general, want to believe that they aren’t and they enjoy seeing them fall. That will make it all the sweeter if Hughes, Kennedy, etc lead the Yanks to a title this season.
Here’s Pete’s appearance on ESPN video:
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?&brand=null&videoId=3290434&n8pe6c=1
About time the Yankees took care of business. Good for them. MLB be warned: This is not Joe Torre’s Yankees. Throw at us, play dirty, crowd the plate, do what you want to do but there will be payback.
LOVE IT.
So where are the Pictures and Videos of Cervelli being bulldozed by Johnson, Pete? Anyone?
So anyone know what this means: “keeping the peace” - why would you get ejected for that…from the Bryan Hoch blog:
This day began with a Hollywood actor carrying a black bat into the clubhouse and lockering up, and a $16 million pitcher coming down with a mysteriously mild forearm injury; then featured a coach leaving the field on a stretcher to a standing ovation and a pitcher thumbed for a wild fastball; then the crescendo came with a right fielder wrapping up a player at second base and two coaches being tossed — one, Bobby Meacham, for keeping the peace in a bench-clearing melee.
Interested in seeing what Torre has to say about the whole Tampa temper tantrum, if anything.
Thought I’d also mention that if you’re going to slide in an attempt to do damage, you’d probably slide a lot harder, slide PAST the bag (something Duncan didn’t do), and extend your spikes OUTWARD rather than have your knee bent way in. Yes, his foot was up off the ground, but in no way does it look like there’s intent to injure there. If you’re going to injure someone, you’d be a lot more aggressive than that. Duncan simply went in hard, with somewhat of an awkward slid