The line on Joba so far
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- March
- 15
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Joba Chamberlain in three games this spring:
7.1 innings
8 hits
5 runs
5 earned runs
4 walks
4 strikeouts
2 home runs
6.14 ERA
Any day now, people will notice that he hasn’t been dominating and call for the Yankees to make him their 8th inning man again.
No. No. No and No. Chamberlain is 22 and in his first big league camp. This is what you have to expect. He’s also smart enough to be working on his secondary pitches and not just picking up cheap outs with his fastball and slider.
The Yankees are going to go through some tough times with Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy. But the key is how they’re pitching in August, not April. The Yankees have enough offense and pitching to stay in contention until then.
Interesting day for Kennedy today. Look past the two home runs and at the five strikeouts. He was getting swing-and-misses with his change and breaking pitch. He may not be a cult hero like Joba, but he’s going to be a very solid pitcher for a long time.
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on Saturday, March 15th, 2008 at 7:03 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
Josh Thomson
I can NEVER hear too many good things about Ian Kennedy. That kid’s a real talent. He’s going to be big time.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Look at Hughes’ past spring trainings, he was murdered, and yet performed decently in 2007 even with his leg injury.
I think Joba, Ian and Phil will all be fine. Like vets they are working on pitches as you said. They will be fine, they will throw some poor games of course, just like anyone else.
Pete, i think you should do an expose piece on the yankees traveling secratery
You don’t have to sell me too hard on IPK, Pete. He’s every bit the solid guy the other two have been proffered to be.
I’m just praying that we Yankees fans have the patience to let them have their growing pains, and make their adjustments. According the game story on the Yankees website, it looked like Joba had a particularly difficult time with Curtis Granderson – a not-too-shabby player. I would venture a guess that next time around, Joba will have done a bit of homework.
I’m trying not to overreact, but it sure seems the Yankees are so far having their problems with Tampa Bay. I know it’s only ST, but they’ve lost each game they’ve played against them. I simply hope it’s not the way the regular season is going to go.
Pete -
We might need to have a permanent link to this entry during the year – for those times when people are on the ledge.
Heck, I’d be up for bronzing this one, and putting it next to the baby shoes
Seriously, great job on this one
I totally agree, I pick 6th in my keeper AL fantasy league where we pick from new AL players and rookies and I’m hoping Ian drops to me. I think Joba, Bucholz, Ellsbury will go first three, so I’m hoping Ian falls to 6th with a few random picks before him. I think Kennedy will prove to quite a pleasent surprise for us this year.
Doreen
Also take into account something that Ian said. He had a particular pitch that he would use during the regular season to get a hitter out. Instead of throwing that pitched he threw it down the middle daring him to hit it and he did, a very long way.
The guys are very smart pitchers and don’t want to reveal their hand.
The Yankees took IPK before Joba in the draft, so at least at the time they valued him more.
Joba gets more press, but IPK might be a better pitcher in the short term.
The one thing that worries me about the Bronx Triangle is that none of them have had Tommy John surgery yet. Man, does that sound weird. But given the history of young arms and the success of TJ surgery, I’m kindof glad that most of the next set of prospects have already had it.
Jennifer – good point. The Yanks play Tampa Bay 18 times this season. You don’t want to give anything away.
Jennifer -
I didn’t know Ian had said that. It makes a lot of sense!
amen peter abraham!! joba is and always has been a starter. i cant believe how many people want to use him for 70-80 innings instead of 200 (eventually)
Clare, you make it sound like TJ surgery is the new steroids. I like the sound of that! Call Senator Mitchell! Alert the Media!
Seriously, it is not a given that every young pitcher will have to go under for TJ surgery. I think we’ll be fine with our pitching staff. We broke in one rookie last year with Phil, now we’ll break in Ian and Job, down the road a few young pitchers will also challenge to be bullpen contributors similar to Joba in 07.
Kennedy is often said to have a ceiling of a #4 or #5 starter. That’s the knock on him. Limited fastball velocity. None of his pitches besides the change are plus pitches.
But one of the things about him that’s very encouraging, is that hitter’s have never been able to make consistent contact off him even though he doesn’t have great stuff.
Even though he doesn’t have that great power fastball or sharp breaking pitch he misses bats.
Pete I think you are the new Yankee cult hero! As long as you are not on steroids or are taking HGH!
Jeff,
I know, I know. It sounded a little crazy.
If all three stay healthy it’s going to be an amazing year.
The next week to 10 days become critical for Ross Ohlendorf, Jose Veras, Scott Patterson, Edwar Ramirez, Jonathan Albaladejo, and Brian Bruney. All need to make a case for staying. Jeff Karstens needs to step it up also.
Morgan Ensberg, Chris Woodward, Cody Ransom, and Jason Lane are in a similar situation.
Pete – few here doubt Joba’s future is as a starter, but those on the outside looking in (ESPN, etc.) might go there. And Cash has already stated that if the other 5 starters are healthy, he’ll go to the pen to start the season. So the comments could begin in the media.
The question is when the Yanks will start to taper his outings back and up the frequency to get him pen ready. Gotta wait a while in case of injury to another, btu when would that transition have to start.
And another I’m curious about. Living out here in “the OC”, wondered if IPK and Phil ever faced each other in HS? Phil was 2 years back I guess, but their HS’s are only about 10 mi. apart. Any idea Pete?
The Detroit announcers were pretty adamant that Granderson’s 1st inning HR of Joba today was wind-assisted and that it would have been a routine fly out in the big park. They said the wind this ST had made their park very “small.”
So put an asterisk next to one of the HRs listed above.
As someone pointed out in an earlier post today, Jose did not block the plate on the trow home from Ensburg because he didn’t want another Yankee catcher going down in ST. In a RS game, Jorge or Jose do what they need to to make the tag and Alex more than likely makes a decent throw (Ensburg, are you listening?). So maybe an asterisk next to that run as well.
While Joba wasn’t yet the Joba we are hoping for, he certainly wasn’t pedestrian and the numbers Pete posted above are ’subject to interpretation.” Detroit had pretty much their A line up playing, so this was a good test.
As I posted earlier, the Detroit announcers were pretty amazed when Joba turned the jets on and roasted a couple of batters with 98-99 mph heat.
“Morgan Ensberg, Chris Woodward, Cody Ransom, and Jason Lane are in a similar situation.”
Ransom has no shot. he’s a 32 year old career minor leaguer. Ensberg’s put up an OPS near 1.000, and was an all-star 2 years ago. Not really sure what more he can do…
Woodward is minor league depth, or at least I hope so. He can’t hit a lick.
Lane…he’s hit too, but he’s never been the hitter ensberg was.
Not worried at all about how these guys perform in ST. Joba is working on all four of his pitches so he isnt as dominant as if he was just using his two best pitches. I am worried about the lack of control Joba and Ian have showed. Trying to be too fine with some pitches. The “experts” have already written us off by saying that we are the 5th best team in the AL. But I have a feeling that these kids wil shut up the experts just like the Giants did. I had the same feeling during the Giants playoff run. But to be honest I am getting tired of tuning the radio to 660 or 1050 and listening Mets Mets… and the Yankees being the 2nd best in town. We will show them that the final year in THE STADIUM will end with us holdinig the championship for the 27th time!!!
Sitting in Clemson SC today watching my nephew play and enjoying BC winning a road series against Clemson (he hit another HR today. Sorry, had to brag!), I had the chance to talk to a couple of scouts about the Yankees.
They echo Pete’s thoughts. One scout felt people are sleeping on Kennedy.
He told me fans, some members of the media and WAY too many teams are too in love with the radar gun. He told me that Kennedy “flat out knows how to pitch” and that “he could pitch in our organization anytime”.
Joba? He is going to get knocked around a bit but, he possesses #1 starter stuff and is going to be a great (not good, great) pitcher in the game for a long time.
I have said all spring folks have to be less stat conscious with the young arms. They are going to take their knocks this year.
In the end though, the Yankees are doing the right things to put themselves back into being a dominant force for a long time by going with these kids.
In another year, when guys like Ohlendorf, Horne, McCutcheon, Gardner, Sanchez, Melancon, perhaps even Jackson and Tabata, are knocking on the door, and Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy have a full year under their belts, the Yankees are going to have an embarrassment of riches with these younger players.
Hopefully, Cashman will stick around to enjoy the fruits of his labor.
Its going to happen (the success of these young guys). Its just a matter of when, not if for the majority of these kids.
I also think people are sleeping on Melky. With all the talk on Gardner, I don’t think folks realize Melky is having an excellent spring thus far.
I think he and Cano are going to have huge seasons. This is the year where their in season workouts with Arod will pay off. It will give them the stamina needed to play at a high level all season.
Its an exciting time to be a Yankee fan. There are a lot of positive things to hang your hat on with this team.
Its why its fun to check out the development of the younger players as well as the way the veterans seem to be responding to Girardi.
They just need to stay healthy for another two weeks. If you recall, it was at about this time last year when the entire team broke down physically and it messed up the first half of their season.
If that doesn’t happen again this year, I think this is a much better all around team than the national media thinks.
SJ:
To reinforce the comments from the scouts, the Detroit announcers said it was “Interesting” how the Yankees chose to stay with their homegrown pitchers rather than trade for Santana. They were very positive. A quote, as best as I could write it.
“There is a different way of thinking coming from this team. Not bad thinking, either.”
I have to say I was initially disappointed that Joba was pitching in Lakeland. But, it was interesting watching IPK today. His problem was not hitters making contact. Rather he was JUST missing with his pitches, and he was walking people.
His breaking ball was sharp and has a big drop. I’m guessing it’s a slider from the break I saw.
Another interesting point I forgot to mention in my earlier post. Girardi came out to hand in the lineups but Maddon did not. I thought it interesting that with all the stuff between the two teams that Maddon wouldn’t have the stones to stand in front of Girardi.
Pete – I agree on both counts, on Joba and IPK, but especially Kennedy. I forget which paper it was, maybe Kepner in the Times, had a story on Kennedy, comparing him to Greg Maddux. Today, he gave up the two homers – one a real shot, but the other clearly aided by the wind. And he does get a lot of swings and misses. Personally, I think it’s wrong to call him a # 4-5 starter – let him demonstrate what he’s capable of. So far, he’s demonstrating quite a lot.
I’ve said that I would have made the Santana for Hughes and others trade in December, prior to Bill Smith shopping the offer. It would have given the Yankees more time to fill out the other parts lost (like CF) in the deal.
Once I heard how well Phil was throwing the ball in January and February, I am really glad they didn’t make the deal.
As good as Santana is, one guy doesn’t make a pitching staff.
Give me a balanced staff of talented starters (which they now possess), like the Yankees had during the Dynasty Years, and that will trump one guy every time.
When you think about it, the sky’s the limit for Hughes.
He doesn’t have to be as good as Santana in his career to justify not making the trade.
All he has to be is as good as he can be. If that occurs, he will be an all star for a long time in the game.
The Yankees spent 7 years and over 1 billion dollars in salaries chasing the next, best star in every off-season. It didn’t work.
Now, let’s give it some time as they try to do it another way. The right way, I might add.
A team with pockets as deep as the Yankees can have the best of both worlds. A kick butt farm system AND the ability to supplement it with the right free agents.
Paying for star athletes past performances…Sounds like a lot like paying for over-hyped mutual funds past performances. And seems to work just as well.
Joe–It was Harper in the News
Elizabeth – yeah, you’re right. Nice piece.
clare: have to pass you props, for using the word ‘bronx triangle’.
it not mine. However, it sound much better, then generation trey. lol.
Tomorrow should be an interesting matchup. Wang vs. Sabathia.
Morgan Ensberg has been raking the ball, he needs to stay on this roster. As for Joba I think Pete’s post said it all. Igawa can’t make this roster, please lord let us find someone desperate for him
Pete,
Your hypocrisy is amusing to me. You said not too long ago to ignore the numbers in spring training when it comes to Mike Mussina and bashed everyone on here for being upset with his performance.
Man, but look at Joba’s line!
Pete…
re: “But the key is how they’re ["Three Amingos"] pitching in August, not April. The Yankees have enough offense and pitching to stay in contention until then.”
Nope. We’re evidently looking at a rebuilding year. The pitching last year early was Tampa Bay-esque, and the only reasons the Yankees were able to secure a playoff spot were two miracles. Early, it was A-Rod; from a little before the break, it was one of the best stretches of baseball I can remember.
Yes, there’s a difference: Phil, Ian, and Joba will almost certainly be very good in the future. And they’ll be great in spots this season, but we can’t beat the tar out of people and win the world series. And it looks like we’re starting out with a better team this year, and I’m thinking offhand of Molina and Giambi.
Oh, what the heck. I’ll settle for a better record than BoSox and a season sweep of the Tampa Manta Rays not at Anaheim.
Thanks vinny, I was thinking of you when I said it.
Keith,
You completely missed Peter’s point, and he wasn’t being a hypocrite at all.
Keith:
Reading comprehension wasn’t your best subject in school I assume. Get somebody to read it to you slowly and maybe you’ll see what I mean. Good luck.
ooh…ice cold! haha
keith; the man is right…you should have paid attention to what he actually wrote…
I could write about six-eight reading comp questions for this post to make sure we all understand.
Good Evening
Well you guys will get to see a lot of games this week on TV.
Sunday vs Indians
Monday vs REDSUX
Tuesday vs VTech
Thursday vs Blue Jays (AWAY GAME)
I am excited to see the VT game, that should be pretty special.
“The Bronx Triangle” — I like that, where opposing bats are never heard from again.
I also like calling the three young guys “Tri Young”.
SJ44, outstanding posts as usual. To think the twins could have had Melky and Phil vs. what they got… Now with Andy here, Cashman may be remembered best for the trades he didn’t make.
http://www.whyilikebaseball.com/?p=44
This blog is pretty funny. Not sure who they are in the media or how they know what they’ve posted.
Yazman: I Like Tri Young. That’s a good one.
I like three amigos. They are all friends, so it fits.
I like Tri Force the best myself.
Who’s pitching tomorrow vs. the Phillies?
new artist renderings of YS
http://yesnetwork.prospero.com.....;tid=40140
I thought they are playing the Indians.
Maybe we could trade Joba while his stock is still high.
You’re right the Indians. Still Who’s pitching
You’re right they are playing the Indians. I must have had a brain freeze. I still don’t know who is pitching. The games on YES and I want to record the game since I won’t be home to watch it.
Wang.
Hi Friends,
Thanks
“The Yankees are going to go through some tough times with Chamberlain, Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy. But the key is how they’re pitching in August, not April. The Yankees have enough offense and pitching to stay in contention until then.”
Yes to the first thought and hopefully to the second. If the kids struggle and they don’t catch the defending champs like last year, you can bet the wild card won’t come out of the East with Detroit and Cleveland having more experienced pitching and 5 less losses against Santana to worry about.
It may be a long last year.
rich M- that all may be true , except that both the tigers and especially the indians feasted on santana last year.
SG’s statement: “He (Phil) doesn’t have to be as good as Santana in his career to justify not making the trade.” is actually and understatement. The trade was for:
Phil, Melky, and 2 of our better prospects, one of which will probable play for us, AND enough money (saved) to BUY THE BEST FA that comes on the market.
Looking at the money saved, the trade may have been:
CC, Phil, Melky, 2 prospects… or
Tex, Phil, Melky, 2 prospects… or
any number of other studs that we can buy.
Does anyone really think that Santana adds more to our team then: Tex, Phil, Melky and 2 prospects?
People are seduced by the name: Santana (as was Cashman for a while), but I think it would have been a horrible trade.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3286515
A little thing on Joba’s first cover.
Joba will be ok. It’s only spring.
Girardi likes Gardner alot
Rich,
I think it’s alittle too early to simply assume either Cleveland or Detroit will get the Wild Card. In particular Detroit is definitely overrated. Other than Verlander they don’t have a great pitcher. Willis is terrible, a +5 ERA in the NL east. That pretty much says it all.
What makes me sleep at night is that he’s 22. Forget what he does in August 2008, I’m more concerned about what he does in October 2010.
Kennedy is a very interesting pitcher. He doesn’t have fancy stuff like Joba, but it’s good enough to get outs at the major league level with his control. A moose-like career is certainly possible. And Moose has been a very good #2 for most of his career.
It will be interesting to see how Hank Steinbrenner reacts when the team goes through a tough stretch. Last year Andy was huge at stopping losing streaks, but I’m not sure if he’s going to be able to have a 2nd half like he did last year. Wang needs to have a big year so that there isn’t any more pressure on the young guys than there already is.