Second try at projecting the roster
-
- March
- 16
Lineup (post suspensions)
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi 1B
Posada C
Matsui DH
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Bench
Duncan
Molina
Betemit
Ensberg
Rotation
Wang
Pettitte
Mussina
Hughes
Kennedy
Bullpen
Rivera
Chamberlain
Farnsworth
Hawkins
Traber
Patterson
Albaladejo
Notes: I’m not crazy about Betemit being my only backup at SS and 2B but Chris Woodward hasn’t shown enough to keep Ensberg off the team. … Brett Gardner needs to play every day in AAA rather than ride the pine in the majors. … I need to find out if Patterson can go three innings before I put him on the team. If not, Karstens is the choice. … Albaledejo, Bruney or Ohlendorf, flip a coin.
You absolutely CAN NOT monkey with the roster because of the suspensions. Why waste options for the sake of three days? There’s a day off after Opening Day, anyway. If Matsui can’t start three games in four days in left, he should be on the DL.
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on Sunday, March 16th, 2008 at 8:39 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
What about Cody Ransom he seems to be better defensively and play more positions than Ensberg.
1st
seems spot on. i personally like ohlendorf over albaladejo
TRADE FARNSWORTH PROMOTE OHLENDORF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The absence of Igawa says volumes. Where does he go and how does his stay play out?
Why Hawkins over Ohlendorf?
As some one else asked several posts earlier, is there enough left to put a package (quantity) that might attract Pitt to trade Marte? Could Pavano be part of that package?
Please don’t throw sharp objects. Just asking.
Steve M.
Don’t bring up Ransom. It’ll just invite another post about how he’s a 32 yr. old career minor leaguer.
Look at that, I’m psychic!
i dont think hes shown enough steve m. I think esnberg has the better bat
I like Lane over Ensberg and I understand the Gardner situation. (Who will Ensberg replace on the 40-man roster? Pavano’s spot once he goes on the DL?)
Why isn’t Veras being considered at all? I really like his stuff for a reliever: hard fastball, nice curve. Albaledejo has proven nothing to me to justify putting him on the roster. I have a feeling they will go with Ohlendorf.
“Why Hawkins over Ohlendorf? ”
Because Hawkins has a 1 year major league deal.
Ensberg is a better player than Ransom. He has been a very good ML hitter against LH pitching in his career.
If his shoulder is healthy, no reason it can’t continue.
I agree with the position player roster Pete. Unless there are injuries, I really can’t see it going a different way.
You just hope Alberto Gonzalez develops enough in Scranton so that if you need a middle infielder during the season, he can be summoned.
The starters are set. The bullpen is interesting to say the least.
Its like the stock market with guys having up days and down days.
Its going to be interesting to see what the plans are for Patterson the rest of the spring. You have to think he has opened Girardi’s eyes with his outings.
Do you think they will try him out in long relief situations in his next few outings to see if he can handle it?
Woodward’s hitting .435 this spring, and can back up CF as well as the 3 IF positions. It’s too bad the Yanks have to carry 12 pitchers.
Patterson can go three innings based on durability. He’s thrown over 100 innings in a season in indy ball. The question is effectiveness since he’s a two-pitch pitcher. He has been pretty strong in Trenton in multiple-inning outings.
http://barnstormers.wordpress.com/2007/01/25/pattersons-prospects/
Sorry if this has been posted already, but here are the (rather mystifying) results of a poll at yankees.com:
If the Yankees carry a left-hander in the bullpen, who should it be?
Sean Henn
15138 votes (33%)
Kei Igawa
19304 votes (43%)
Heath Phillips
4591 votes (10%)
Billy Traber
6199 votes (14%)
Woodward has been an atrocious hitter his entire career and 20-something spring at bats will never chance that fact.
I agree, you absolutely cannot muck up the roster for the sake of three days in April.
I don’t see why they should trade Farnsworth. He is pitching well.
I’ll take his arm over anybody’s in the bullpen among the candidates for relief.
Its not a rebuilding job for the Yankees. They aren’t going to have 6 rookies on their pitching staff.
If Farnsworth is pitching well, I keep him and use him.
If it doesn’t work, go to Plan B.
He is throwing this the best he has thrown as a Yankee. Can’t get rid of guys when they throw like that.
9 hr 13 min 26 sec
==================================
I think back bench meant why Albadalejo over Olendorf, right?
Stephen: Who the @#$$ is voting for Igawa?!
Why does Cano have to hit ninth? To stroke the egos of veterans like Giambi? Giambi should hit 8th and Cano 5th
The problem with ST hitting stats is, they are misleading.
Has he compiled those numbers against ML or minor league pitchers?
Kind of makes a difference when determining what the numbers really mean.
Peter:
I agree with you on everyone BUT:
Ensburg = Woodard
Albaladejo = Ohlendorf
I don’t fell that the Yankees should start the season with BOTH Melky & Duncan suspended at the same – Why compromise their roster flexibility? Winning games at the start of the Season – (especially since they are against Division rivals) is quite important!
Agree with the roster. I didn’t take into account options, you are right than, they will have to live for 2 days with 23 men.
Stephen
The people who voted in the poll are clueless. They just went with the names they know. If they watched Kei or Henn pitch at all they never would have voted for either of them. I could care less that we would lose Henn. Check out his numbers on baseball-reference. They have been awful! Let someone pick him up. Heck I hope it is the O’s it will give us someone else to hit. He might be a nice guy, but he has no place on the roster.
“Why does Cano have to hit ninth? To stroke the egos of veterans like Giambi? ”
Cano is hitting eighth. Secondly your higher OBP guys should get more atbats during games. Giambi has a career OBP of over .400. If Giambi is healthy he is still a very dangerous hitter. The 3,4,5 combo of the Yankees will be wearing pitchers out every game. Maybe I would switch Cano and Matsui, but everything else looks okay to me.
I would think:
Albaladejo in Scranton with Ohlendorf in New York and Veras in NY for Patterson. Ohlendorf can go 3 innings in relief. Patterson could get a call up when Joba goes to the rotation.
I am not sure about Albaledejo making the team. I am still not sure who should get that last bullpen spot.
On Second thought I would even consider batter Cano 6th. He would get a ton of RBI batting behind Abreu, Arod and Giambi.
Agreed with SJ on Farnsworth. He was already turning it around at the end of last season.
He’s going to be a pleasant surprise and people will be clamoring to re-sign him for $5M. Just kidding on that last part.
The only thing that could hold Farsnsworth back is his balky back.
Anyone want to take a crack at the starting matchups for the first two series?
Pete, this supports your proposed roster:
http://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.com/archives/924166.html#fold
Pitchers (not including Sunday’s game, as Sunday began the fourth time through the rotation):
ERA: Scott Patterson, LaTroy Hawkins 0.00
ERA (min 1 GS): Ian Kennedy 3.00
Unearned Runs: Ross Olendorf 3
W: Phil Hughes 2
L: Jeff Karstens 2
K: Jonathan Albaladejo 8
BB: Joba Chamberlain, Darrell Rasner 6
H: Jeff Karstens 12
HR: Ian Kennedy 3
HBP: Joba Chamberlain, Jonathan Albaladejo, Andy Pettitte, Heath Phillips, Edwar Ramirez 1
SV: Scott Patterson, Billy Traber, Mark Melancon 1
BLSV: Jonathan Albaladejo 2
Solid prediction but I have two gripes.
Ohlendorf belongs over Albaladejo or Patterson [who may benefit from some time at AAA]
And Cano has to hit 5th. Or sixth… but eighth? No way.
The kid is a future #3 hitter, and right now should sit behind A-Rod with Abreu working counts ahead of the MVP
Agree with all except I’d like to see Ohlendorf over Albaladejo. Ensberg DEFINITELY should be on the team. He can play SS in a pinch too.
Not sure I understand the options comment. I don’t think we should call Gardner up for the first couple games, but I’m pretty sure a player gets unlimited callups during the season, and it only counts as one “option.” Is that right?
If so, if you’re implying that Gardner won’t be up at all during the season, well, I think that’s pretty unlikely.
“Ohlendorf can go 3 innings in relief.”
Ohlendorf was bad as a starter. That’s why he was moved to short relief…get rid of his mediocre pitches and let him throw harder.
He’s not going to be a long man.
I’m not sure Patterson is really a long guy, given that he’s a two-pitch guy. I think he could be an effective weapon in short relief and shouldn’t be wasted as a mop-up guy.
“Patterson [who may benefit from some time at AAA]”
He’s been getting out legit major leaguers this spring, and the hitters are pretty ready to go at this point.
He’s thrown better than anyone else. Ohlendorf hasn’t done anything to show me more than Patterson, and I KNOW that Ohlendorf needs to work his new splitter more. I think he goes to AAA.
Dirk,
I think the plan is to have one of the recovering TJ power pitchers to replace Joba in the pen. Of course that means someone else goes down to keep the numbers the same.
“Not sure I understand the options comment. I don’t think we should call Gardner up for the first couple games, but I’m pretty sure a player gets unlimited callups during the season, and it only counts as one “option.†Is that right?
If so, if you’re implying that Gardner won’t be up at all during the season, well, I think that’s pretty unlikely.”
But Melky and Duncan would need to be sent down. That burns options for them too. And also…unless someone goes down for a long time, I don’t see Gardner coming up at all until September.
Mel,
Thank you for trying to help this old Yankee fan. The question I asked did concern Hawkins, and RayMagnetic answered it. I am pro Ohlendorf because of his effort under pressure in the 2nd half of 07. Based on the results so far, it doesn’t appear that Hawkins or ‘Albe’ will be able to withstand ALE and ALC hitters.
But that’s what I love about this blog community. Even less knowledgeable fans can come in, ask their question, and be treated with respect.
“I think the plan is to have one of the recovering TJ power pitchers to replace Joba in the pen. Of course that means someone else goes down to keep the numbers the same.”
Plans rarely work out exactly as planned
If Sanchez and Melancon are both dominating AAA out of the pen, the Yanks will move Hawkins or Kyle to make room, I’d think. Or, get rid of whoever is currently stinking up the joint in the pen. There WILL be someone that’s pitching badly.
If they didn’t think Woodward was an option to make the team, I don’t think they would have invited him to ST. He has done everything he could to impress and the Yanks need versatility with the busy schedule in the early going.
I don’t like the guy long term but I absolutely don’t want Betemit being the utility guy from a defensive perspective unless and until he shows he can handle it.
I love offense as much as everyone else but let’s not underrate middle infield defense as well as having a true versatile utility guy. Championship teams typically have that.
It’s funny that we’re all making a big deal about who is going to fill out the bullpen. The Scranton shuttle will be in full force this year. For the first time in awhile we have a bunch of guys not making the opening day roster who can be very valuable to the Yanks in 2008.
From mlb.com:
Left-hander Andy Pettitte will get the call for the Yankees on Monday at Legends Field, matching up with the Red Sox for the only Grapefruit League meeting of ‘08 between the two rivals. Boston will showcase right-hander Bartolo Colon in the effort, bringing only an assortment of star players, with the club’s Japan trip looming. Jonathan Albaladejo, LaTroy Hawkins, Heath Phillips, Brian Bruney and Scott Strickland will also be available to pitch.
My crystal ball says that Alex won’t get his off day tomorrow. (Who’s Strickland?) Also, I like LaTroy. He’s mischievous.
“Boston will showcase right-hander Bartolo Colon in the effort”
He’ll be lucky to go two innings.
“Based on the results so far, it doesn’t appear that Hawkins or ‘Albe’ will be able to withstand ALE and ALC hitters.”
Hawkins has given up two unearned runs so far, no? Sure, he had a bad outing the other day where he walked two guys, but he’s been doing just fine.
Spring is a small sample size. Patterson has followed up dominating AA with a dominating spring, so that shows me something. Hawkins followed up his GB-fest in Colorado with a good GB ratio here in the spring, and keeping runs off the board.
Veras and Bruney have continued to show poor control, after having those problems for the last year. That tells me something too.
back bench,
Sorry about that! I was surprised because LaTroy was the big “acquisition” of the offseason and his ERA is nil. But yeah, it’ll be interesting.
Take notice of the players that Pete and Girardi say are “interesting” or “intriguing”. They’re on the radar.
Mel – I was thinking that too about Alex. I bet he can’t wait to see Colon.
If Betemit can’t play 2b and SS on the days he’s going to be needed to, then he’s a liabilty on the roster.
Woodward is your typical UTIF and I think you don’t have the room on the roster to have one of them AND Betemit. Woodward does nothing with the bat and he’s not exactly Ozzie Smit in the field. Betemit should not be our backup corner IF. He needs to play 2b/SS to be of value.
Ensberg is our Right Handed insurance against lefties and also a capable enough player to not only be in the first base mix, but can give Arod a day off at 3rd.
I think he’s better insurance than Betemit in the chance that something happens to Arod or even Jeter. If Jeter, God forbid, went out for awhile with an injury, you could slide Arod to SS and play Ensberg at 3rd.
And don’t scoff at that. There aren’t Torre’s Yankees anymore. If Jeter went out for a long stretch, I would not be stunned to see Arod play there.
I imagine against a tough lefty, Girardi can have both Shelley and Ensberg in the lineup.
Ensberg gives the team a lot of options, not to mention an impressive OPS against lefties.
As for the pen, I don’t have a clue.
But what I will say is this, I would rather them keep a bullpen arm who has some nasty stuff, then give a spot by default to Karstens who I don’t think can get major league hitters out.
I think the guy is Quad A at best and there seem to be a lot more exciting arms in the organization than his.
mel: We play Toronto, aye?
Game 1: Halladay vs Wang
Game 2: Burnett vs Pettitte
Game 3: McGowan vs Hughes
“I don’t like the guy long term but I absolutely don’t want Betemit being the utility guy from a defensive perspective unless and until he shows he can handle it.”
How often do you see Jeter and Cano being pulled late in a game for defense?
They have certainly been considering a defense-first middle IF utility guy. I don’t think that they’ll wind up going that way, frankly. I really don’t think that Alex Cora contributed all that much to the Sox’ playoff run last year.
whozat,
I think it’s more of a need at the beginning of the season. Don’t the Yanks have a ton of games in a row in the early going?
It’s not a huge issue but I definitely think that the role of “utility guy” is a necessary one and isn’t being mentioned much on the blog. Betemit doesn’t exactly project to be that guy. It seems like defense and versatility has gone by the wayside in favor of hits and HR. That’s all.
I disagree about Cora. He was HUGE in the beginning of the season when Lugo was sucking it up. HUGE.
Rebecca,
I like Hughes as the #3, but I think Moose gets the nod.
Also, everyone needs to accept the idea of Betemit being on this team. He’s young, he’s cheap, he’s flexible, and apparently coachable. Oh, yeah, he’s a switch hitter showing improvement on his weak side.
starting with the 2nd game of the season, Yanks play 19 in a row. day off. then 13 in a row.
mel,
would you keep Betemit over Ensberg if it came down to that?
(at least the Yanks issues this ST are over who to cut instead of how they’re going to fill the holes)
“He needs to play 2b/SS to be of value.”
He has been. He played SS today, and he was fine. Not amazing, but he doesn’t need to be.
“I would rather them keep a bullpen arm who has some nasty stuff, then give a spot by default to Karstens who I don’t think can get major league hitters out.”
I would rather them keep a guy who throws strikes and gets outs. They have plenty of guys with “nasty stuff” that don’t know where it’s going. Karstens isn’t necessarily that guy. If his next two outings are good, I think he makes the team. Keep in mind, this is a mop up/spot starter role. We’re looking for a guy who can go 4-5 innings and only give up 2 runs or so. That’s it. He doesn’t have to be amazing. He has to be decent at the drop of a hat. That’s all.
This roster has issues. Ensburg and Duncan are repetitive, no real backup middle infielder, although Betemit deserves the chance. No real long man in the pen is problematic. No OF depth while Melky is suspended.
I wonder if Duncan would be ok starting the year in AAA. That might be the way to go.
Boston Dave,
I don’t know much about Ensberg and haven’t watched him play too much. Is he the guys who had 36 HR a few years ago but had shoulder injuries?
Make a case for Ensberg and I’ll decide. What positions can he play (is he the one who can play RF?), etc.
I do know they gave up a pretty good reliever for Betemit.
“I disagree about Cora. He was HUGE in the beginning of the season when Lugo was sucking it up. HUGE.”
Yep. A huge hole in the offense. Just because Lugo was _also_ a huge hole doesn’t make it good that Cora stunk too.
Betemit IS versatile. He plays four positions, and can ACTUALLY hit. Given that this is an AL team and there’s very little pinch hitting, and our SS and 2B play 155 games a year…I really don’t think that a defense-first util guy is in any way a necessity.
We have a guy who can hold down any infield position tolerably and can actually hit from the left side of the plate, with power. Who cares if he strikes out a lot? He’s a UTILITY INFIELDER and is actually a power threat off the bench…dumping that for Woodward would be insanity.
Patterson is not a long man. Karstens is.
and between: Alby, Bruney, Ohlendorf. I give it to none of them. Patteron.
bullpen:
Rivera
Joba
Farnsworth
Hawkins
Traber
Karstens
Patterson
Jeff NJ,
Duncan’s going North. He’s become the second coming or mascot depending on how he’s mashing. I’ve been impressed with his athleticism. To me, he’s our white Vlad Guerrero with healthy legs. But, he swings at slop and turns it into gold. As long as he’s batting well, he’s in. He’s also flexible for lineup purposes.
He’s not my favorite, but I can see his value and he’s actually growing on me, crazy eyes and all.
“Make a case for Ensberg and I’ll decide.”
An All-Star 3B in 2005. Has crushed lefties throughout his career. Had a shoulder injury in 2006 that likely caused his HUGE dropoff last year. Has good plate discipline too. Is a good defensive 3B, and has been ok at 1B this spring.
No, he can’t play the OF. Shelley is the only 1B candidate who plays the OF too.
Yeah. I like what I see from Patterson so far.
Congrats to the Syracuse Orangemen on their bid to the NIT basketball tournament!
Likewise to my Cal Bears. Go Bears!
whozat,
I watched pretty much every Sox game. I don’t know where you are getting your info on Cora. He was extremely valuable to them and a big part of the Sox team that stormed off to a huge AL East lead.
I’m not suggesting that Woodward be taken over Betemit. I certainly don’t know more than Girardi and the guys who will make the decisions. It just seems to me that they are lacking a utility guy.
If you can vouch for Betemit, ok. But I haven’t seen anything that says he can be a true utility guy and a successful defensive 2b/ss. I haven’t seen any of the ST games either. MAYBE he will end up being fine, but until you know for sure, it’s a risk. That’s all I’m saying. It definitely seems to me like you are ok with sacrificing defense for offense. No problem with that – just a difference in strategic opinions.
I agree with you, Boston Dave. Woodard over Ensberg:
a. He’s a better all around fielder can play every infield postion plus the corner outfield positions.
b. He’s a career utility player, knows his role and prepares accordingly. Ensberg has typically been a starter and has not really learned the role of a utilityman. He also was brought in to compete a 1B as a righty option – not as the all around utility role.
c. With the looming suspensions of both Melky and Shelley at the start of the season – Woodward will provide much more roster flexibility than Ensberg.
Yes, Ensberg has a better bat/more power – but can he do it coming off the bench for one abat once or twice a week?
I feel that his spot has been won by Shelley Duncan.
Mel, I agree, you gotta love Shelley. Even in Lupica’s weekly Yankee rip job he actually said last years Mets could have used more guys like Shelley. My point is just Ensburg and Duncan are a bit repetitive, although maybe it’s more Ensburg and Betemit. I guess I’d prefer Gardner to be there while Melky is out.
By the way, anyone else see that Reggie also got fined in the brawl? He was fined for wearing a Yankee hat and windbreaker. I think the anti-Yankee bias is in full effect this pre-season.
Jeff NY: why would they fine Reggie for that?
Jeff NJ,
A 30 man roster would solve all our problems. lol.
Hank’s driving me nuts battling players & managers, but it hasn’t been this interesting in a long time.
Someone needs to rush Papelbon on the mound for calling Hank a pencil-pusher.
And I love that Hank told the Rays, they need to remember who subsidizes them.
Lineups for 2008
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi 1B
Posada C
Matsui DH
Cabrera CF
Damon LF
or
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Posada C
Duncan 1B
Matsui DH
Cabrera CF
Damon LF
THese can on and on based on who sits for the 4 headed monster: (Damon/Matsui/Giambi/Duncan)
Bottomline Cano is ready for the 3rd Spot but I’ll put him in the 2nd hole for now. He’ll get better pitches up this high with Abreu and A-ROd behind him. .330 Avg for Cano
And Ofcourse TRADE FARNSWORTH – (Its spring Training folks it doesn’t count. Oh my aching back – Time for Ohlendorf)
sorry. I meant Jeff NJ.
Pete, where’s your long relief? we’ll need it with folks like mussina and the young arms around…how bout Britton? take away a bench guy.
“I think the anti-Yankee bias is in full effect this pre-season.”
Yes as long as “Bull” Watson – former Yankee GM who was succeeded by Brian Cashman – is MLB’s “VP In-charge-of-Discipline.
Ya think, subconciously, Bob has “sour grapes” when dealing with situations involving Yankee players?
If Melky and Shelley are suspended for 3 games, why would Gomes get only 2 games for fueling the brawl by initiating contact with Duncan?
Girardi made yet another public statement today about his desire to have a long man in the pen.
Has anyone actually seen the tape of Melky hitting a Ray?
Vivianna’s right. IIRC a week ago Pete said that Karsten was most likely that guy, yet he’s not even mentioned in the post.
Lefty-Traber
Long man-Patterson or Ohlendorf
Righty-Patterson or Ohlendorf
I take Cody Ransom over Ensberg on my bench…he can play every infield position and can pinch hit with some pop. I like Patterson and Traber in the BP.
“I watched pretty much every Sox game. I don’t know where you are getting your info on Cora. He was extremely valuable to them and a big part of the Sox team that stormed off to a huge AL East lead.”
I watch the sox too. I live in Vermont. Cora is a poor hitter. His OPS was below .700. Sure, he hit well in April in 25 ABs. But after that he was just bad. Go look at the numbers. He wasn’t valuable.
how great is it that pretty much all of us are more than happy going into the season with Traber as the lefty specialist?
I’ll admit I was a bit concerned…. nice job Cash (and the other guys behind the scenes).
Bruney and Henn have no options, correct? What happens if they pass through waivers and the Yankees pick them up again. Is it a continuation of the old contract? If they’re called up and sent down again are they still out of options and do they have to go through waivers again?
whozat,
I saw the #s. He hit .315 the first 3rd of the season and played superb defense. Go look at the standings after the first 1/3 of the season. Also, ask Francona what he thinks about this debate.
I think you are missing my point. A utility guy is supposed to provide versatility and play good defense. I am not so sure Betemit is the best fit for THAT role. If I am incorrect about that, I can accept that. I just don’t see the proof yet.
If you don’t think teams needs that role, so be it. I think most successful teams would disagree. If your suggestion is that Betemit IS that guy, I dunno yet. Can he be that guy? Maybe. A bit risky IMO.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03162008/sports/yankees/reggie_loses_his_pinstripes_102255.htm
Here’s the Reggie story. I would think that it was because he’s a special advisor and not on the staff. I don’t know what the windbreaker and hat have to do with it.
“around…how bout Britton?”
Britton’s not a long relief guy.
“he can play every infield position and can pinch hit with some pop. ”
No, he can’t. Houston’s AAA affiliate plays in a notorious hitter-friendly environment. Ransom is a AAA player. Always has been.
It’s ridiculous that people are talking about taking Woodward or Ransom over a guy who was an ALL-STAR in the majors in 2005. He hit 30+ homers in the actual major leagues! He’s had an OPS over .850 against lefties IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES for years, even in his bad seasons. Ensberg’s exactly the kind of piece the Yanks need. An all-defense middle infielder on the MLB roster when Jeter and Cano play 155 games a year is totally pointless. They need guys who can swap in at 1B and corner OF against tough lefties.
whozat,
newsflash – Shea Hillenbrand was an All Star in 2005 too.
I’m not knocking you or Ensberg. I hope they can find a way to keep him. I just think you are grossly undervaluing the role of “utility guy.”
Andrea, I saw the Reggie info on Waswatching.com quoting George King. My 2nd favorite Yankee blog.
george king is usually short on details or accurate facts.
I know that Joba belongs in the rotation, but how great is it that he’ll be that bridge to Mo in the first part of the season? Hawkins, Krazy Kyle, Joba, and Mo. Definitely shortens the game.
Reggie in addition to being fined was banned from being on the bench during the remaining ST games. This seems really harsh but I am not familiar with the rules. He is technically not on the coaching staff so maybe that has something to do with it.
“He hit .315 the first 3rd of the season and played superb defense.”
He had a .692 OPS in May and a .664 in June. That’s kind of pathetic.
Also, Francona will say he can “do all the little things” which the same way Torre used to defend Cairo, who was also useless.
The traditional utility IFer role is a defense-first kind of guy. However…when you’re NEVER going to pull your middle infielders out of a game unless they’re hurt…who cares? If they’re hurt, you want to plug in a guy who’s not going to be an automatic out. Cora, Cairo, Woodward…these guys are all pretty pathetic with the bat. If Jeter or Cano goes down for a week or two, I’d MUCH rather plug betemit’s bat into the lineup than a guy like Cora or Woodward.
There’s no reason to allow traditional roster construction to prevent one from actually reasoning about the roster in question. This UTIF guy should literally appear at SS or 2B in about 24-30 games. As long has he makes the routine plays, I’d rather have a guy who can actually put up an OPS near .800 taking up those ABs than a guy who puts up one under .700.
mel,
definitely… but I wouldnt include Farns and Hawkins in that chain yet
Meet the Osbournes:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/03/16/2008-03-16_kyle_farnsworths_softer_side.html?page=0
Kyle’s the Martha Stewart of the clubhouse. Ladies check out the wallpaper!
whozat,
I respect your opinion. Judging from the rosters of most teams, I just don’t think it’s shared by many MLB managers and GMs.
If Betemit can play 2b/SS effectively that would be fantastic. I just can’t bet on that quite yet. If you want to go offense all the way and neglect defense, ok. I just don’t subscribe to that theory. I’m not an expert by any means, just my opinion.
“newsflash – Shea Hillenbrand was an All Star in 2005 too. ”
*sigh*.
But Ensberg was actually WORTHY. Also…you’re ignoring the more important part…that he has crushed lefties for years.
You’re grossly over-valuing the defensive portion of the UTIF role. Betemit can play the middle IF and not embarrass himself. Given the limited time he’ll be needed there, AND the production he provides from the left side, he’s fine.
Uh, guys, don’t we have room for both Betemit and Ensberg? Counting Matsui and Duncan we have 5 outfielders, so the last bench spot goes to an infielder.
“If you want to go offense all the way and neglect defense, ok.”
You’re acting like I’m advocating carrying Giambi as my UTIF. I’m not. I’m advocating carrying a guy that’s adequate on D in the middle infield and had a good bat over guys who are above average in the middle IF and bad with the bat.
whozat,
if that’s the case (Betemit), then I stand corrected. My point is that I don’t know that he’s shown to be an effective defensive middle infielder.
If the Yanks didn’t have Duncan, then the need for Ensberg would be greater.
So why do teams typically carry a utility guy? Are they all crazy?
“Uh, guys, don’t we have room for both Betemit and Ensberg?”
Yes, we do. But not Betemit, Enberg AND Woodward/Ransom. Which is what some are advocating, due to the “need” for a Cora/Cairo type.
whozat,
if he is truly “adequate”, then ok. I will concede this one. I just haven’t seen a large enough sample size at 2b/ss.
I think there’s room for all the above, the looming suspensions have to impact your thinking, even if you don’t want it to.
for the record, i never advocated Ransom
OK, I see, you’re arguing about which 2 of the 3 to take. Betemit’s in, that’s a given whether or not anyone agrees with it.
Jeff NJ: I don’t doubt you. I just don’t get why he’d get fined for that…
“Stephen: Who the @#$$ is voting for Igawa?!”
It’s just name recognition. Google each of these guys, and I’ll bet you the voting correlates pretty closely to # of Google results for each of them.
Alex Cora:
1st half: .770 OPS
2nd half: .549 OPS
So yes and no. In the first half he was a bonus, in the 2nd half he was a dog. But last year, 2nd base and SS were questions for the Sox. We have Jeter and Cano, which makes a ‘Cora type’ less needed.
The question is will Ensberg/Betemin win more games with his bat then he’ll lose with his glove? And who’s a better PH, a ‘Cora type’ or Ensberg/Betemin?
The problem is, in the majors, Woodard probably won’t even be as good as Cora, with the glove of the bat.
Bullpen to start season:
Mo
Farns
Hawkins
Joba
Patterson
Traber
Bruney
It’s a toss up among Bruney, Alba, Ohlendorf, and Veras, but only Bruney is out of options. My guess is that if looks good the rest of spring, the Yankees would prefer to start with Bruney on the big league squad. If he sucks, they can cut him. The other three have options and all could use more seasoning in AAA.
Ensberg could also prove to be a nice trading chip. I wish Igawa or Pavano would be, but I don’t think so.
“If the Yanks didn’t have Duncan, then the need for Ensberg would be greater. ”
Duncan has 34 MLB games, and spent 6 years languishing in the minors. Ensberg has shown over many years that he can hit MLB left-handed pitching. If I had to bet on one of them to continue hitting well in MLB, I’d pick Ensberg. That’s another reason I’m hesitant to let him go.
“So why do teams typically carry a utility guy? Are they all crazy?”
Well, in the NL the game is very different. There’s a LOT more pinch hitting, so a UTIF gets a lot more playing time and his D is thus more important. He’ll also pinch hit for the pitcher, so the bar for “good offensively” is a LOT lower. So, in the NL, it makes sense.
In the AL, frankly…managers like Torre feel comfortable with a guy like Cairo around. So, they get them on the team and then they sit on the bench and don’t contribute much of anything. My point is why not use that roster slot for someone who can ACTUALLY help? Instead of giving 40 ABs a month to Alex Cora, who will fritter them away, why not give 60 to Ensberg and actually get some good production? If the cost to doing that is dealing with Betemit’s lesser D at SS and 2B for 4 games that month…that’s fine with me.
Betemit is limited as a backup infielder but he makes up for some of his defensive liabilities with his bat.
He is a much better hitter (even with his strikeouts and other limitations) than the vast majority of utility infielders.
Woodward is a flexible guy but really not an asset. He’s an insurance policy.
Given how much ARod, Jeter and Cano will likely play Betemit will be adequate to give them an occasional breather (though second base is really not a strenght of his)
If Jeter or Cano gets hurt they have Gonzalez in the minors to call up and fill in. He’s perfect for an injury back up and I think they’ll give him some time at second in AAA.
Without Gonzalez there’s a little more of an argument for Woodward.
At this point there’s no way to not take Ensberg. He’s had a very good spring and his shoulder looks fine.
Ensberg has a career .842 OPS. The last year and a half have been bad but if there’s any chance that he could be rebounding then he’s an enormous addition.
You just don’t find guys as the 25th man on a roster who can be .800 OPS guys. You just don’t – it only happens by luck.
Lefty hitters gave them problems last year. Ensberg could be an enormous asset.
Nettles,
You make too much sense. Bruney has BB & HR his way onto to my DFA list, but yeah it’s probably the way that Cash goes.
What kind of contract did Ensberg sign?
whozat,
Torre liked a utility guy?
you forgot to include Francona, Scioscia, Leyland, Gardenhire, Hargrove/McLaren…
just the best teams in the AL last year.
you are off on that one.
“So yes and no. In the first half he was a bonus,”
If you look at the month-by-month breakdown, he had HUGE numbers in April, and then his ops dropped to .694 and .660ish in the next two months. So, basically, Cora had 25 ridiculous ABs in April and then regressed to his normal numbers after that.
I think the all-defense UTIF is just kind of a holdover from when teams didn’t get much offense from SS and 2B. And, on teams where that’s still the case…I guess carrying a guy like Cora makes sense. He’s not that much of a dropoff from what you’ve already got. But, for the Yanks…There’s like…a 200 point dropoff in OPS from Cano and Jeter to a guy like Woodward. You just can’t live with that if they go down for two weeks. It’s 70-100 or so down to Betemit, with a bit of a defensive dropoff. That’s WAY more tolerable.
I gotta go to bed.
As for UTIF, I’ll let the fact that a majority of teams in the NL AND AL have one speak for itself.
Crazy as it is, defense and versatility still matters to many of the GMs and Managers in MLB.
“Torre liked a utility guy?
you forgot to include Francona, Scioscia, Leyland, Gardenhire, Hargrove/McLaren…”
I said LIKE Torre. Old-school managers. Those guys all fall into that category.
“Crazy as it is, defense and versatility still matters to many of the GMs and Managers in MLB.”
And yet, you’ll notice that these WONDERFULLY versatile players don’t actually get to _play_ all that much…maybe if they could actually hit, that wouldn’t be the case!
p.s. someone should tell Francona and Epstein about their HUGE mistake in carrying Cora. Clearly they would benefit by having an extra .100 in OPS from someone else.
I consider myself educated, maybe someone should educate them as well.
I don’t think Bruney makes the roster. I don’t think it matters that he’s out of options.
He was terrible last year and still can’t find the plate consistently.
You can’t carry a relief pitcher who’s going to walk 6 hitters per 9 innings. That’s how bad Bruney’s control has been.
Look at all the new reliever’s cash brought into camp – almost all of them have one thing in common – they throw strikes.
Hawkins, Albalbndejo, Patterson, Traber – they all throw strikes. That’s one of the reasons the team is so high on Ohlendorf. He’s got terrific control.
Its going to come down to 2 of 3 from: karstens, patterson, albalandejo, ohlendorf.
whozat,
send a press release to all the MLB teams. to think none of have any idea what they’re doing. nuts!
whozat,
those guys also fall into the category of successful and… made the playoffs in 2007 or pretty close. add hargrove to that list.
CB,
Thank you for the reassurance.
I issued the challenge for the first week’s rotation, here’s mine:
3/31 Holliday–Wang
4/2 Burnett–Pettitte
4/3 McGowan–Mussina
4/4 Shields–Hughes
4/5 Garza–Kennedy
4/6 Jackson–Wang
4/7 Sonnanstine-Pettitte
(Why no game on the 1st?)
mel,
the 1st is unfortunately one of only 2 (i believe) off days in all of april for the yanks.
Good Evening All….
Saw the game today in very Hot Tampa….Traber was throwing heat in the bullpen as the game was winding down.
Saw Jim Leyritz around 300PM at my Hotel lobby..I didnt bother him.
Ensberg will make the team unless he totally stinks it up.
Ensberg’s greatest value is getting enough appearances to demonstrate he’s not toast, then getting traded midyear, to some GFIN team that’s lost a 3rd baseman, for prospects.
Unless Hank falls in love with him.
Side thought: Has A-Rod been working out at SS? If Jeter gets hurt, do you put Ensberg at 3rd and move A-Rod over? I recall him having a little talent there.
“There’s like…a 200 point dropoff in OPS from Cano and Jeter to a guy like Woodward. You just can’t live with that if they go down for two weeks.”
For a normal team that might be true. But the yankee offense isn’t normal at all. They are a 1000 run offense. If a player gets hurt they can afford to carry a lesser offensive player (in fact they will have to because it would be impossible to because every guy in their line up except melky is an .800 OPS guy).
That’s part of the reason why they can afford to carry Betemit. Betemit isn’t going to be the guy who fills in for 2 or 3 weeks for at SS or at 2nd.
They’ll call up Gonzalez if someone needs to go on the DL.
And remember – its’ not hard to find a woodward type player. They will definitely have some kind of veteran utility guy at AAA – most likely Cody Ransom. They’d bring him up.
You can always find a Woodward type later. You won’t be able to find an Ensberg.
Also, IMO Cora was extremely valuable to the Sox last year – for a backup middle infielder he gave them as much as you can reasonably expect when a guy like Lugo goes down.
Like the yankees, the sox can afford to carry a light bat for a period of time.
Cora’s play at the beginning of last year was important for their torrid start and it was that torrid start that created the cushion they ultimately used to win the division when they played poorly the second half.
The two roster decisions I dont agree with is Patterson and Albaladejo.
Im thinking Veras and Karstens.
REDSUX tommorrow….no Manny,but we will get Ortiz and Varitek….Colon starts for Boston…….Jeter,Abreu and Posada musthave gotten the day off.
mel-
Typically the day after Opening day is left open so in case there is a rain out they can play the next day. This is the practice of most teams where the increase of inclement weather is a factor.
don’t know if it’s been posted but Steven Jackson, Eric Duncan & Alan Horne impress in Tampa
source
Chris Gomez is the kinda guy that reminds me of Alex Cora.
Always played well against the Yankees,when he was with Orioles…
Bruney has 1 BB and 6 Ks in 4.1 innings so far this Spring. If the Yankees were not going to give him another chance, they wouldn’t have resigned him.
Patterson and Ohlendorf have 0 walks. But Oholendorf is apparently still working on a splitter and could use the extra time to adjust to his new role in relief. I think he goes to AAA regardless.
Alba has 2 BBs, 8 Ks, and 1 HBP in 7 IP. He’s been a lot more hittable than Bruney. I think he goes to AAA.
Karstens has 3 BBs and 3 Ks in 6.1 IP and has been very hittable. I don’t think his performance or track record justifies keeping him on the big league roster.
I think Patterson and Bruney both make the opening day squad based on performance so far and all the other considerations that we know of.
On the rotation order – this is something I was wondering.
Given the innings cap for Hughes/ Kennedy do you try to space them out in the rotation in order to take the stress off the bull pen?
If you throw Hughes and Kennedy back to back you may wind up asking the pen to throw longer stretches in consecutive games.
Don’t know if they’ll do it but I was wondering if they might go Wang, Kennedy, Pettie, Mussina and Hughes to space out the innings limit and load on the pen.
That might not work out because mussina may not go very deep in games either but I think its worth trying not to throw phil and kennedy in consecutive games.
As S.t Patrick’s Day becons, it’s always been considered the stretch run for S.T….From this point on it’s a make it or break it for those fighting to make the team and go North……The bullpen is really still an unsettled project, but the numbers will be thinning out in the next week or so….As we all have agrred upon, a strong , or an effective bullpen will afford Giradi great flexability when it comes to Kennedy, Hughes & to a lesser degree Joba & their innings…..
Thanks, Buddy. That makes sense.
CB,
You have to stay with your strength, cross your fingers, and hold ***. That’s what the long man is for. The only thing that throws off having Hughes in front of Kennedy is that Kennedy has a higher innings threshold.
No Karstens. Cool.
” Bruney has 1 BB and 6 Ks in 4.1 innings so far this Spring. If the Yankees were not going to give him another chance, they wouldn’t have resigned him.”
Fair point. I think the reason why they resigned Bruney was as an absolute insurance policy.
There was so much uncertainty in the pen Cash’s plan was to maximize all possible options – even to the point where you bring in a Traber, Phillips and Strickland.
I don’t think you can make much of Bruney’s 4 innings in spring training. At this point he has a fairly extensive major league track record – which is very consistent. It clearly shows he cannot throw strikes.
Last year he walked almost 7 batters/9 innings. That’s one of the worst rates in all the majors. And that’s not too far off his career average.
In addition, the minor leagues he showed no control walking 5 hitters/ 9.
Other than that brief stint at the end of 2006 he’s hasn’t shown major league control and for a relief pitcher that’s disaster.
mel-
Sorry about your Lakers, it was their turn to run into the Buzzsaw that is the Rockets.
Peter,
Can you describe the scenarios you foresee leading to Brett Gardner being an everyday player for the Yankees this year? How well does he have to do in AAA to take Melky’s job? What does Melky have to do to lose his job? Or is the only scenario an injury to Melky or Damon or a trade of Melky or Damon?
Thanks.
Nice story in the NY Times about Patterson. I hope all these kids like Edwar and Patterson and Bruney can eventually make it. But there’s a reason why they have been bounced around; they may prove to be nothing more than just AAAA pitchers.
Buddy,
Thanks. Hopefully, Bynum comes back soon.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/17/sports/baseball/17yankees.html?ref=sports
Girardi’s used the word “intrigued” a couple of times. Gardner & Patterson?
so rumor has it that the Red Soxs are sending Bucholz to AAA because he hasn’t been on his game like he was last year.
Bartelo Colon would be the innings eater, I need someone to help me out because Jon Lester before the Chemo was a so-so SP but after it he all the sudden became this legend prospect, Colon supposively can top 94 w/ the 4 seamer but not the 2 seamer..WTF ?
I mean if we’re not a shoe in for the AL East what makes the Red Sox a shoe in ? why can’t they miss the playoffs
Whoa, Peterson’s story and minor league numbers are definitely intriguing.
“That’s part of the reason why they can afford to carry Betemit. Betemit isn’t going to be the guy who fills in for 2 or 3 weeks for at SS or at 2nd.”
I disagree. I think this is exactly the value of having a Betemit in the first place. You don’t need to take as bad of a hit. Sure, bring up Gonzo to fill the roster spot, and put him in late in games to provide better D, but Betemit gets the first 3 ABs in the game.
Also, Cora’s fast start helped the Sox last year, sure…but it was a TOTAL aberration. They didn’t put him on the roster because they expected a 1.200 OPS from him in April.
Perhaps he provided what you can “reasonably expect” from a UTIF, but why settle for that if you don’t have to? I’d much rather have Betemit’s .770 OPS with lots of lefty power from my UTIF than a Cora type, even if the latter has better D.
whozat – you are arguing with a guy from BOSTON. Don’t expect much. ‘Nuff said.
You know they logic. If 8 teams have a crappy UIF, then we should have one too.
“Given the innings cap for Hughes/ Kennedy do you try to space them out in the rotation in order to take the stress off the bull pen?”
No…I don’t think they’re going to be pulling them early in games. They’ll get 100-110 pitches like anyone else.
River Avenue Blues had this the other day – These are Scott Patterson’s cumulative numbers to date since he signed with the yankees in the summer of 2006:
143.2 IP, 91 H, 29 R, 23 ER, 26 BB, 160 K
Minor league numbers – but very impressive nonetheless.
“because Jon Lester before the Chemo was a so-so SP but after it he all the sudden became this legend prospect,”
Lester was always considered a blue chip prospect. In the minors he was considered the better prospect than Papelbon.
In 2006 Baseball America had lester as a top 25 prospect. He’s got very good stuff – question with him is command.
I think Bucholz will also be on an innings limit, so AAA might be better for that.
“He’s got very good stuff – question with him is command.”
I think Lester is one of those classic guys that makes people say “B-b-but like, 90% of top prospects turn out to be busts! Trade them all for Santana now NOW NOW!!!!”
Top 25 prospect based on stuff, but can’t command it, and is thus a 5-inning pitcher. Perhaps he’ll figure it out. But, perhaps he won’t. That’s the risk with guys who are rated super-high based on stuff. When you find a guy with great stuff that ALSO has shown command throughout his career, those are the prospects you bet on…like Hughes and Joba
as it stands right now Boston’s starting 5
Beckett (back)
Dice-K
Lester
Colon
Wakefield (age)
can they get 55 – 60 wins out of that group ?
whozat if Lester turns out to be a B-BUH-BUST
what then ?
Don’t they need Buchholz?
Beckett, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Lester, Colon.
Maybe they don’t need him right away. Asking Wakefield & Colon to stay healthy is asking a lot.
“No…I don’t think they’re going to be pulling them early in games. They’ll get 100-110 pitches like anyone else.”
I don’t think its simply a function of pitch count with rookie pitchers.
Young pitchers tend to be less efficient with their allotted number of pitches when compared with effective veteran pitchers. They tend to throw more pitches per batter than a guy like Pettite would.
Learning to get through more innings with fewer pitches is part of what learning to pitch in the majors is about.
So 100-110 pitches as a whole may not project to the number of innings they would with more experienced pitchers. Scott Kazmir is a great case in point.
Given that an innings/ outs gap could form that will need to be picked up by the pen.
Don’t know if that’ll happen but I’d guess it will tend to.
Also – both Phil and Kennedy are going to be more likely to have clunker starts when they just don’t have it which may lead them to get pulled more quickly.
For these reasons I think spacing them may be advantageous. Don’t think it has a major drawback.
I don’t know how the yankees will play it with the pitch count/ innings limit in terms of when they’ll pull them.
I’d guess it will change at different times during the year, particularly depending on how they feel. They’ll likely go through some dead arm period.
Don’t know if it’ll be 100 pitches per – that would be on the heavy side – the expectation on a per game basis would be the same as for a veteran – which means they’d have to be skipped starts to keep their work loads on target.
mel even Beckett may be in trouble he came to camp out of shape and already has back issues and he’s going to give them 200 + innings ? I don’t see it
I’d give Bruney one more shot over either Alba. or Ohlendorf. His arm is at least as good as either of their’s, their all the same age, and of the three he’s the only one to pitch 20 innings of lights out baseball in the heat of a pennant race, which to me can’t be discounted.
No question the walks hurt him, but as bad as his numbers were last year, Ohlendorf’s were worse. The big difference being Bruney pitched sporadically in the AL East, Ohlendorf in Scranton. I like his pissy attitude and slimmed down wasteline, and am curious to see how he responds knowing it’s make or break time, Yankee-wise. No harm giving him a month while the others get regular work in Triple-A.
I like Karstens, but I don’t think his touch and feel stuff translates to sporadic pen use. I’d let him start every 5th day in Scranton so that when someone twists an ankle or tweaks a hammy there’s no misguided temptation to give the useless Igawa another shot.
I like CB’s rotation if for no other reason than keeping Mussina and Kennedy from going back to back. Otherwise I think all this talk about handling Hughes and Kennedy differently than other pitchers is folly. They should pitch as deep into games as their stuff allows and if they reach their innings cap in mid-August, you make your decision then.
Here’s the thing about Betemit: unlike your average utility infielder, he doesn’t provide a replacement bat (or below-average but above-replacement bat). He provides an average bat at a corner position, which makes it a slightly-plus bat at a middle position.
This is a luxury most teams cannot afford to have because…well, for one thin, it’s a luxury that’s really hard to find. There are few players with average bats sitting on the bench full-time, because generally players with average bats–who can field competently–will find a starting position somewhere. And I would bet that on some teams, particularly non-competitive ones, like the Orioles, Betemit would be an upgrade at the corners.
I mean, PECOTA pegs Betemit for ~.275 EqA as his weighted mean projection, which is fifteen points above *league-average*. He has some upside due to his youth, too.
Now, he’s not going to become a star–rebuilding teams or contending teams desperate for corner offense would target him otherwise–he’s probably one of the best utility infielders in all of baseball, and one a lot of teams would probably like to have. The problem is, it is a luxury, because most teams cannot afford to give up the talent it would take to acquire a Betemit; benches are usually rounded out with guys like Cora precisely because they can be found cheaply, without costing significant talent or dollars.
That’s not to say Betemit requires significant talent or dollars; he does *for the services he provides*, namely, a utility position.
i love this team, but we dont have pitching.
Who would of thunk that we’d be looking forward to a nice friendly game against the Sox after a week of tension with the Rays?
mel,
Good one.
I think you posted earlier something about the Sox lineup for the game – where did you see that? Thanks.
anyone interested in getting together an espn bracket group for ncaas…just for bragging rights
Clare,
mlb.com
anyone see how many points Denver scored tonight
When will Gardner ever get a chance to be anything other than a 4th outfielder for the Yankees???
Damon and Matsui are each signed through 2009, and Ajax and Tabata are on their way. I suppose you could let Abreu walk after 2008, slide Melky over to right and play Gardner in center, but if Abreu has a good 2008, they might want to re-sign him for 2009.
The best use of Gardner is to make him a 4th OF and pinch runner this season. He won’t rot on the bench because Damon, Abreu and ocassionally Melky will need a rest. When you rest Abreu, that’s when you play Melky in right and Gardner in center.
Besides, Ensberg and Duncan are duplicative.
Brandon; did you read that they are going to start laptops in AAA to preserve his innings?
i just hope that for once we turn the tables on the sox and get off to a good start, rather than them, we’ve played catch up every year beginning in 05.
the fact that they are suddenly finding themselves in the position of relying on wakefield and colon can only be good for us.
MikeEff some part of me believes there is more to that than his innings cap
you could easily be right brandon…remember his “fatigued arm ” at the end of last year?
Am I wrong in thinking Buccholz is a bit overrated?
andrea…we call him laptops here…
and yeah he may well be over-rated.
yup I was thinking that too
My bad. Laptops it is.
I’m still stuck on Pete’s issue with using options. Options are used when you send a guy down, so everybody who doesn’t make the team that’s on the 40 burns an option.
But if they have one, you can move them 50 times this year no problem. So there are 2 possible issues:
1) keep a guy in the majors to not use an option. That’s what you do with out of options guys like Bruney and Henn. To send them down requires clearing waivers. If they do you can outright them (off the 40 man) if they agree to go to the minors – they can (in most cases) choose free agency.
2) Gardner. If you keep him you have to add him to the 40 man roster. When you send him back down, you use his 1st option. Meaning he’d be out of options if he kept bouncing upand down in 2011. The guy’s in AAA now – if he isn’t good enough to stick by 2011, who cares if we lose him then.
The point about Gardner is having a backup CF during Melky’s suspension, likely by going with 11 pitchers, 12 position players for 3 days. If we can’tget through 3 days with 11 pitchers we’ve got a problem. And the 5th starter is available as a long man on 3/31 because with 4/1 off you could go #1, off, 2, 3, 4, then 1 again, then 5. I mean, it’s not a big deal, but I’d rather not be 2 players short for 3 days and have 12 pitchers 1 of whom I could get away without. And the extra guy doesn’t have to be Gardner, though you have to have options available on any current NRI’s or they could declare FA when you tried to send them back down.
“Scott Kazmir is a great case in point.”
Kazmir has always walked more than 3 per nine in the minors, which has translated to 4-5 in the majors. So, while his control issues are not nearly as big of a deal as Lester’s, they’re still more prevalent than any of our young pitchers.
As for restricting them to fewer than 100 pitches a start…if they do that, they’ll be training their bodies to NEVER be able to go 100 pitches in a start. They will have to skip starts to keep the innings down. They know this. They’re not going to keep them down to 80 pitches a start. I feel like that has a long-term risk of turning them into 5-inning pitchers forever.
“Damon and Matsui are each signed through 2009, and Ajax and Tabata are on their way.”
Jackson and Tabata are slated to start in AA and are 21 and 19. They could easily take 3-4 years to arrive in the majors, and it’d still be a normal time-frame for a young player. And, Melky might struggle in the interim…wouldn’t it be more useful to have a guy playing in AAA that could step in than a guy sitting on the bench to steal bases once a week? Also, what trading chips would you rather have? A CFer that could start on an MLB team, or a 4th OFer. You can ALWAYS find a speedy 4th OFer that can’t hit on the cheap if you want.
“I’m still stuck on Pete’s issue with using options. Options are used when you send a guy down, so everybody who doesn’t make the team that’s on the 40 burns an option.”
No…players who’ve never been in the majors don’t use an option.
The issue, I think, would be burning an option year on Melky and/or Shelley.
How many 1B do you want to take on this team? Giambi, Ensberg (who has only 1 game of MLB experience there), Duncan and Betemit (14 games?). The only backup OF listed here behind Damon, Melky, Abreu and Matsui is Shelley Duncan. Damon serves as the backup CF, weak arm and all.
A question is, do you do what’s best for the individual, or what’s best for the TEAM? Frankly, I see no purpose for Ensberg. He’s not versatile. He’s another righty, and you already have Molina and Duncan on the bench. (Betemit being a switch-hitter). Gardner provides a lefty balance.
I’d rather take Gardner. Why? Because he is the one guy who CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN A CLOSE BUT LATE GAME. If a Giambi or a Matsui get on, Gardner could PR for them. He can steal a base (or two) and score that tying run. He can score from first on a double. Pinch-running Duncan or Betemit won’t do that. Gardner brings that other aspect to the game—speed. There’s enough power here on this team, even off the bench with Betemit and Duncan, now go for the balance.
As far as hindering Gardner’s growth, he is what he is. A speedster. He’ll never develop power. He’s a “Jayson Tyner-like” player there. The power will never develop. The speed is already there. Also, all things being equal, Gardner gets passed on the depth chart in a year by someone with Gardner’s speed, but with more power than Gardner—Austin Jackson.
“He’s another righty, and you already have Molina and Duncan on the bench.”
Did either of them hit 36 homers in the majors prior to a shoulder injury?
No?
Then I want Ensberg. Molina’s not much of a hitter, and Duncan could easily turn out to be Kevin Maas/Shane Spencer.
I’d MUCH rather have him as a late-innings weapon at the plate than Gardner as a late-innings weapon on the bases.
LF: Damon, Matsui
CF: Melky, Damon
RF: Abreu, Duncan
1B: Giambi, Duncan
3B: ARod, Betemit
SS: Jeter, Betemit
2B: Cano, Betemit
So, to that we can add a (righty) former all-star who may have recovered from the injury that affected his batting last season, and who covers 3B and 1B. That would make our lineup against lefties look like (in no order):
Damon
Jeter
Cano
ARod
Matsui
Duncan (RF)
Posada
Ensberg (1B)
Melky
That’s WAAY better than the lefty-laden lineup we were running out there last year. And putting up an OPS over .750 against lefties is much more important than a pinch runner late in games.
“The absence of Igawa says volumes. Where does he go and how does his stay play out?”
$64K question there!
I was just thinking the same thing. For that matter…what does Pavano do during the season? Probably not good to have that disease around the team.
“As far as hindering Gardner’s growth, he is what he is. A speedster. He’ll never develop power. He’s a “Jayson Tyner-like†player there. The power will never develop. The speed is already there.”
But, if he can be Juan-Pierre-who-takes-a-walk, there’s MLB value there. Which could allow the Yanks to move Damon in his contract year OR move Melky OR get better return on Gardner in trade.
Is giving up that possibility worth having a pinch runner that will get used once a week…max?
Whozat:
What’s killed the Yanks in the past has been lack of versatility. Too many DH/1b types, and you want Ensberg and Shelley Duncan on this team along with Giambi. So what are you getting? Another team of too many DH/1B types, with no versatility.
Let’s remember WHERE Ensberg hit those HRs. Houston’s LF is a joke. If you think he is hitting 36 at Yankee Stadium, where LCF is some 37 feet deeper, dream on.
With the bats and power on this team, if you have to worry about Ensberg providing extra power, then this team is in trouble.
If his speed can win another four or five games a year in those close but late ballgames due to stealing bases or scoring from first on a double—things Duncan, Betemit or Ensberg can’t give you, then it’s worth it.
It comes down to balance for me. The ability to beat you in many different ways. The great 1998 team had power off the bench in Strawberry and Spencer, but they also had speed in Raines and Homer Bush. I don’t want a bench filled with all the same type of players. Gardner gives you that something different—another weapon to use.
I gotta go, but I should add one thing. Speed off the bench in a close but late ballgame proved so important in Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS with Boston and Dave Roberts. Who knows? Maybe Gardner could be the “Dave Roberts” of 2008?
“I gotta go, but I should add one thing. Speed off the bench in a close but late ballgame proved so important in Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS with Boston and Dave Roberts. Who knows? Maybe Gardner could be the “Dave Roberts†of 2008?”
Ah, generalizing from a special case.
“With the bats and power on this team, if you have to worry about Ensberg providing extra power, then this team is in trouble.”
Yes, the Yankees are FLUSH with righty power, including players such as ARod, Arod, AROD, Alex Rodriguez, and some fellow named Alexander Emmanuel Rodriguez.
Basically, I’m saying that a balanced attack against lefties is more important to me than pinch running off the bench. Pinch running off the bench is DEFINITELY not going to win you four or five games a year. Swapping out Giambi, Damon, Matsui or Abreu for Ensberg against lefties might win you another couple games. I submit that the teams horrendous offense against lefties was MUCH more of a concern last year than lack of positional flexibility.
And, frankly, people who consider Ensberg redundant are putting A LOT of trust in Shelley Duncan. You want to discount Morgan’s power? Fine. Let’s say he only hits 25 homers in a normal park. He also took over 100 walks in 2006. Duncan was in the minors for six years for a reason. He has 34 games in MLB. His swing has holes. If he plays too much, they will become exposed. We KNOW that Ensberg has been a productive hitter in the majors before. If you MADE me choose two of Gardner, Ensberg, and Shelley…I’d pick Gardner and Ensberg.
Also, there’s nothing stopping Gardner from being taken on the roster for the playoffs. They have DL guys they can use for roster gymnastics. That, to me, is a time when that one run in that one game matters enough that it’s worth dropping your last reliever for a speedster. But you don’t construct a roster that way for an entire season.
Why is everyone 13 position players and 12 pitchers? I think there are better options for a 13th pitcher than there are for a 13th position player, at least in terms of the value added to the team.
Patterson makes the team. He has to. There ain’t too much more he can prove, and it’s not a charity spot, they NEED him to keep dominating like he has done for two years now.
I think I want Ohlendorf to make the team just because whenever I hear his name I am reminded of Ogie Oglethorp from “Slapshot”.