Breaking news: Joba to the bullpen
-
- March
- 19
Joe Girardi said just a few minutes ago that RHP Joba Chamberlain would open the season in the bullpen.
He left open the possibility that Chamberlain will move into the rotation later this season. “His future will be as a starter,” Girardi said.
Chamberlain will pitch in relief against Toronto tomorrow and again on Saturday. Ian Kennedy will start against the Blue Jays, a sign that he has nailed down the No. 5 starter job.
Girardi did not define Chamberlain’s role in the bullpen other than to say that he will be used in the “back end of games.”
There will be no Joba Rules. Chamberlain can be used for multiple innings and on consecutive days. “It will be common sense,” Girardi said.
The Yankees are not laying out their entire plan. But it seems fairly obvious that Chamberlain will be used as a reliever for half the season then make the transition to become a starter. If all five starters are healthy and productive, than the decision could be difficult.
But if all five starters are healthy and productive, that’s a problem the Yankees would be happy to have.
Time to head down to Bradenton. Back with more later, including some audio.
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on Wednesday, March 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
His future better be as a starter!
well thank god that’s settled
As expected. I like this move as long as he transitions into the rotation post-All Star break.
*blows bugle* *clears throat*
Let the panic comments and the fire Cashman rants commence now……
Suppose the yankees new offseason traning program prevents injuries and the old guys along with Kennedy and Hughes work out this year then what? Will he remain in the bullpen all year? I know its doubtful Mussina and Pettitte will be back next year but Pettitte isnt that old and If the Moose has a good year are the yanks gonna kick him to the curb?
All I can say is Phil better get some blow after the All-Star break so he can pitch in the postseason in the event that we make it.
COLOR ME SHOCKED
CAN’T WAIT TO SEE HIM AS A SP IN THE 2ND HALF
lol. Common Sense. That’s all it takes.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens if Pettitte gets hurt or Mussina is ineffective. Will Girardi leave Joba in the pen if a new starter is needed for an extended period early in the year?
They will move him to the rotation to give Hughes and Kennedy some starts off regardless whether people are hurt or not because all three of them are on innings counts
If they transition him post-ASB, who does he replace in the rotation?
I’m with Mel - this is the triumph of common sense. It also tells us that they are happy with Moose and Kennedy at the back end.
Now who exactly will be the back-up in case any hammys are tweaked? Karstens?
“It’ll be interesting to see what happens if Pettitte gets hurt or Mussina is ineffective. Will Girardi leave Joba in the pen if a new starter is needed for an extended period early in the year?”
No matter what happens Joba will be spending half of the year in the bullpen I think. If Moose is horrible in April and looks like he’s done they’ll probably move Joba to the rotation and try to make a trade for another starter mid-year and put Joba back into the pen.
By the way, if Moose is horrible or Pettitte or Wang gets hurt for a long stretch of time the Yankees probably won’t make the playoffs anyway.
Back over the big bridge….don’t forget to look for the pirate ship
Until there is someone to replace him in the 7th or 8th… it makes complete sense.
“Will he remain in the bullpen all year?”
If Joba winds up in the bull pen all year he will throw between 70-80 innings ALL year.
Think about that - last year he threw 112 innings plus the 40 innings he threw in Winter ball before the season.
He stays in the pen all year this year - he’s not building arm strength - he’s going backwords.
If he only throws 70 innings this year he’ll be in the same or worse shape next year with respect to his innings cap. His innings cap will be no more than 140 inning and his risk for injury may be even higher because he’d be jumping from 70 innings to 140. This year he should be going from 112 to roughly 140.
If he stays in the bullpen all year this year they’ve created a major headache for next year and seriously set back joba’s development.
No Torre. No Joba Rules. Coincidence?
This is all part of the Cashman master plan, so the only news here is that the Yankees are adhering to the plan.
The tough decision will come in mid-July. Will the Yankees be willing to pull Joba out of the bullpen if their starters are pitching well and/or they are unable to add (either by call-up or trade) a solid set-up guy to replace Joba? That’s when Cashman’s plan may become tough to adhere to.
That said, having to decide how best to use a blue-chip prospect like Joba is an enviable problem to have…
My big question is will he be stretched out with the big team or will he be sent down for a couple weeks? I suppose it might depend on the standings at the time, but losing Joba for a couple weeks is less than desirable. Could he be stretched out from 1-2 innings to 100 pitches while remaining in the majors?
Cashman has already said they have a date in mind in which Joba goes to the rotation. So if Mussina is ineffective and or Pettitte is hurt they won’t move Joba into the rotation based on that. They can’t anyway because Joba hasn’t been stretched out yet. So you are likely looking at Karstens,Rasner,Horne etc to fill in in case of injury or ineffectiveness.
ESPN is calling Papelbon the best closer in the game.
I shake my head.
“If Joba winds up in the bull pen all year he will throw between 70-80 innings ALL year.”
CB,
What if all 5 starters are pitching well the first half of the year. Couldn’t the Yankees theoretically use Joba the same way Gossage was used in 77/78? In 77 Gossage made 72 appearances and pitched 133IP’s. I’m not advocating they do this, but couldn’t the Yankees use Joba the same way this year which would keep his innings up and allow him to pitch 160+ innings next year?
They could utilize him only in high leverage situations and keep his innings to a maximum. Thoughts?
Andrea
That’s OK. He won’t have that distinction at season’s end.
Hawkins, Joba, Mo.
Hmmm who is missing?
TRADE FARNSWORTH
Andrea…why would that surprise you? You DO know you were wtaching ESPN, right?
I cant believe some are surprised by this move. I would prefer him to start in the pen and become a starter in the second half than the opposite route. I still believe they should have had a rotation of 2 spots for 3 pitchers. The trio getting a day off every 3rd start. I wonder if that would have kept all 3 fresh for the finish line.
mel- I keep hearing on the radio talk that kobe is better than jordan. I wanted to get a homers oppinion on the matter. I know Kobe is the best of his time. But I cant see him being mentioned in the same breath yet. Till he gets 6 championships, 5 mvp’s,defensive player of the year and has a carreer avg. of 30 per game. Then maybe.
I think this is probably the right move, given the innings limits, etc. We need to preserve Joba for years to come and if he ultimately — this year or next — ends up in the starting rotation, we’re the better for it!
But Pete, “breaking news”? This was reported in the Bergen Record (print version!) yesterday.
Dan,
Wouldn’t that suck for other teams if the Yankees stretched him out in games? First they’d see him in the 8th, then the 7th, then the 6th, and possibly the 5th if the starter can’t get out of the inning.
# Andrea - anti-anti March 19th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
ESPN is calling Papelbon the best closer in the game.
I shake my head.
In a related news Hank Steinbrenner is crazy if he thinks that ESPN is Pro-Red Sox. They have invited him to the campus to see how things are behind the scenes.
Andrea - anti-anti
March 19th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
ESPN is calling Papelbon the best closer in the game.
You sure they didnt say best ever? It is espn.
mel color me shocked!! I had to read what you wrote twice!!
Verily I say unto thee, the sky hath fallen, and the greatest pytcher of alle tyme descends into the fiery pit of the penned bull.
OR
Seems like a reasonable decision based on limited experience, and a (seemingly never ending) search for a bridge to Mariano. See how it goes and react accordingly.
Didn’t we know this already?
So that means our rotation would consist of Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Hughes and Kennedy…
What order do you think they’ll end up in?
Joba should compete for first base
Larry Harris fired as Bucks GM…I guess they want Donnie Walsh
anyway
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Mussina
Kennedy
“They can’t anyway because Joba hasn’t been stretched out yet.”
Actually, he’s been pitching as a starter for all of spring training. So, he’s at about 65 pitches after his last outing
“But Pete, “breaking news”? This was reported in the Bergen Record (print version!) yesterday.”
Pete was KIDDING that it’s breaking news. Assume Pete is always joking sarcastically. Especially if something he says sounds outrageous or dumb. He’s probably kidding.
SoS,
At this point, Jordan’s still the best. There are endless articles comparing the two, but believe it or not Kobe’s got more of a killer instinct.
Kobe still 29, and needless to say, he has a few years left. If Kobe doesn’t reach Jordan status, what does that say about Jordan? That’s mind-blowing to even think about.
“What if all 5 starters are pitching well the first half of the year. Couldn’t the Yankees theoretically use Joba the same way Gossage was used in 77/78?”
Ray,
That’s a good point. If they used Joba in a very structured way they could in theory keep him in the pen to throw 140 innings.
But no relief pitcher who is used in today’s game comes even close to that kind of workload.
I think they’d almost have to invent a new role for Joba to get him those kind of innings - something like you’re going to throw every 4-5 days 2 innings at a time or something like that.
They couldn’t use him like a regular reliever to come into games when needed and throw that many innings.
People have brought up Gossage before - but remember in 1976 the white sox used him as a starter. He threw 224 innings that year! And there was some build up to that. In 1974 he threw 89 innings out of teh pen then in 1975 141 then the 224 in ‘76,
So gossage’s large workloads in ‘77 and ‘78 didn’t come out of the blue.
IMO Joba is the best pitching prospect the yankees have had over the last 40 years. They cannot take any chanced on him getting hurt.
I have a feeling what we could see if all the starters are throwing well that Joba and Phil could switch places.
Phil is also going to have a cap - if he pitches well he’ll hit his cap quickly in the second half.
We might see Joba go into the rotation and Phil go to the pen. Just a thought based on workload.
Then if they make the post season hopefully they’ll transition Phil back to the rotation and send kennedy and mussina to the pen.
Rebecca - My 2 cents.
1- Wang
2- Pettitte
3- Mussina
4- Kennedy
5- Hughes
Why does ANYONE care what ESPN thinks or says?!?
Just play the damn game!
rebecca,
I would prefer it in the order of
Wang
Pettite
Hughes
Kennedy
Mussina
I bet by a certain date they will switch to a six man rotation. (hopefully everyone is healhty and pitching well by that date).
“Wouldn’t that suck for other teams if the Yankees stretched him out in games? First they’d see him in the 8th, then the 7th, then the 6th, and possibly the 5th if the starter can’t get out of the inning.”
They should.
I kinda figure they should use him for two-inning appearances at minimum until they move him back to the rotation. Get in a tough spot in the 6th? Put Joba in to get out of it and take him out 45-60 pitches later. He’s stretched out at this point. He could handle it. AND it makes it easier to stretch him out later. Of course, he couldn’t go back-to-back days if they do that regularly, but I think it’d be a good way to go. Or, at least, they could start doing that as it gets close to the time where he needs to transition.
Assume Pete is always joking sarcastically. Especially if something he says sounds outrageous or dumb. He’s probably kidding.
This applies for boston fans as well. Next time read this before reacting.
Hughes can’t be our #3 starter. His innings cap won’t allow him to pitch a full season as a #3 starter. More probable than not Hughes will be our #5. It’s not a knock on his talent, just the facts.
I would want:
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Moose
Kennedy
Based on strength, but they’ll probably have:
Wang
Pettitte
Moose
Hughes
Kennedy
No surprise, that’s how they’re lined up now.
but jennifer, how would Moose deal with his routine being altered?
I hope everyone knows that both Melancon and Cox had very impressive debuts; I think the plan all along has been that one of them is going to replace Joba in the pen after the all star break. I find it hard to believe that someone would actually ask who Chamberlain would replace in the rotation! Absolutely no one could answer that now; I’ll just give the benefit of the doubt and assume the question was rhetorical.
all these ideas for Chamberlain seem good. ie. stretching him out during games and using him for 3 innings at a time like Goose. But that is some seriously flawed thinking due to the fact they just paid a ton of money to keep Rivera and paid for Hawkins and Farnsworth isnt making pocket change either.
“No Torre. No Joba Rules. Coincidence?”
I don’t think this is accurate. Cashman said when Girardi was hired that there would be parameters for how the all the young pitchers are used. Girardi confirmed this at the time - that using the young pitchers was an organizational decision and not just his as the manager.
They may not call the “joba rules” this year but there are still outlines for how joba can be used - it’s not only up to Girardi as say using Wang will be.
Of course, the only way that works is if there are other trustworthy pitchers in the pen.
Wang
Mussina
Pettitte
Kennedy
Hughes
Bob I posted about J.B. Cox yesterday, actually today it’s Christian Garcia,Mark Melancon and Dellin Betances, J.B Cox impressed Nardi yesterday in that he only threw the heater and allowed no hits in his one inning.
P.S. Steve Philips sure is wiping alot sh** for the Red Sox right now on ESPN radio
Mike R,
It doesn’t really matter where Hughes is in the rotation, he’s going to have to get pulled from the rotation at some point due to the innings cap. They’d probably factor in funky scheduling quirks like double headers and off days to move the other pitchers up.
Look at us, all Nardi Contreras out!
Joba is insurance for the starting rotation.
He’s a threat looming over Moose, IPK and even Hughes.
If any of them can’t get the job done, then Joba starts to get stretched out and replaces whoever isn’t getting the job done OR whoever gets injured.
I think knowing this kid is sitting in pen ready to take their spots, will hopefully inspire enough competition amongst the starters to keep him in the pen.
If Joba stays in the pen all season, then that means we’re having a very good season.
Not to mention our bullpen now strikes a modicum of fear in the opposing team.
6 inning games in must have situations are back at the Stadium with Joba and Mo looming.
That said, I want the kid to start, but there isn’t a spot for him since none of the other starters can do what he can do for the team in the pen.
Moose and IPK better have their stuff, because if they struggle out of the gate, there will be major pressure to put Joba in the rotation.
I think I just had more faith than for them to call Papelbon the “best closer.” If they said “one of the best” I’d be ok with that, cause he’s good.
Damn you, ESPN. Damn you.
I do love their commercials though.
“But that is some seriously flawed thinking due to the fact they just paid a ton of money to keep Rivera and paid for Hawkins and Farnsworth isnt making pocket change either.”
What? Did someone say that they should be using Joba for 3 innings every day? I’m pretty sure that Mo would still be closing the vast majority of close-late games. And that there’d still be plenty of innings for those other guys.
If Joba gets more innings, they get taken away from guys like Karstens/Rasner, Traber and whoever the other guy’s going to be.
“If Joba stays in the pen all season, then that means we’re having a very good season”
It means that AND that the Yankees have made a bad, bad decision that favors the short term.
CB,
Isnt that easier said than done. Not everyone performs well in the pen. When you come in for one inning and its pressure packs. Joba spoiled us.To have them rotate back and forth seems a bit compicated for a young pitcher trying to get a grasp of this league to begin with. It will be interesting to see what they do if this occurs. We should hope that this problem arises. That means Hughes has been doing well for the most part.
I see why Hughes cant be a #3. Makes sense. But if this is the case, shouldnt Hughes be 5 and Kennedy be 4 based on innings pitched?
What happens at AAA Scranton/Wilkes-Barre will figure prominently in what role Joba has once the season moves along. Just let one starter or one reliever shine down there and the plan changes.
One year ago, nobody would have figured that Joba and IPK would burst on the scene. This year the Yankees know what Mark Melancon is capable of.
“That said, I want the kid to start, but there isn’t a spot for him since none of the other starters can do what he can do for the team in the pen.”
None of the other starters can do what Joba can do for the team in the starting rotation.
He has the best stuff on the team - by far. It’s not even close.
He probably has top 5 stuff in all of baseball. His fastball and slider are 80 pitches and many scouts rate his curve ball as a 70.
The only other pitchers on the yankee starting staff who even has one pitch that rates as a 70 may be Wang’s two seamer, phil’ curve and perhaps pettite’s cutter.
If they make the playoffs their best chance of winning the world series is with joba starting.
this is great news even for those like me who see joba as an eventual #1 or 2. it means the yanks think the 5 thay have will get it done. i dont see them moving joba back into the rotation before late june at the earliest, they will fill spot starts with what they have. hughes in the #5 spot means he would have to sit for a few weeks post asb, and same for kennedy in the #4 spot. thats where joba slots into the rotation. this leaves all of them with innings for the PS. they will come up with somebody who can pitch the damn 7th inning somewhere by the all star break.
not sure which I cant stand more…”The Joba Rules” or “Generation Trey”
J Train - “Joba Rules” makes a good t-shirt. Generation Trey is just lame!.
CB,
I agree with your points. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the second half though. I do think the most likely scenario will be a Joba/Phil flip-flop in the second half.
J Train - “Joba Rules” makes a good t-shirt. Generation Trey is just lame!.
I still think HUGHES YOUR DADDY boston(front). PHIL IS. DEAL WITH IT. with sox crying in the background!!(BACK)Trumps both.
“Joba spoiled us.To have them rotate back and forth seems a bit compicated for a young pitcher trying to get a grasp of this league to begin with.”
Joba spoiled us - that is completely correct.
When ESPN talks about Papelbon as being the best statistical pitchers of all time up to this point in his career they are basically accurate or not far from it (his numbers compare favorably with Mo’s).
Does anyone seriously think Papelbon is one of the greatest pitchers of all time?
No. Put him in the starting rotation and he would never, ever put up those kinds of numbers. If you put Beckett in the closer role there his numbers would be even better than Papelbon’s.
The type of performance Joba put up for those 24 innings has a lot to do with his talent, but it also has a lot to do with the role. It’s just much easier to pitch if you don’t have to go through the batting order twice or if you never have to face the heart of the line up (in the 8th inning role you might face hitter 7,8,9 - how hard are they to get out?)
Joba must transition back to the starting rotation - that is their best chance to win a world series.
In a 5 game playoff series I would take my chances with the yankees winning that series with Joba starting two of those 5 games every time.
Handling the pitchers this year will be very complicated and there’s isn’t going to be an ideal solution.
But the first priority - even over winning short term this year - is to get Joba on track in his development as a starter.
Why will joba pitch against toronto 2 times this week, when we open the season against them???
What’s the deal with Melancon? can anyone fill me in?
Joba to the pen with no joba rules,great.
melancon is pitching in the high a game at minor league camp re: chad jennings
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.com/Blogs/SWBYankees/tabid/552/Default.aspx
CB,
I know Jobas stuff is highly rated. I get that he’s your favorite of them all. But didnt Kennedy and Hughes have better numbers coming up then he did? I guess what im saying is that it wouldnt surprise me if they both ended up having better numbers in their carreer. It will be fun to see how it all pans out. Its like having triplets and wondering which one will be better in sports when they grow up. The all have what i think is the it factor. The mental toughness to succeed.
Joba has the kind of stuff where he should be a starter. But will the Yankees be able to trust Farnsworth and Hawkins to get leads to Rivera for the 9th inning?
If they can’t (and there is little in either Farnsworth’s or Hawkins’ track records to suggest they can be trusted), what do you do? Starters seldom pitch complete games anymore and don’t even go past the seventh inning very often (especially when they’re in their late 30s like Pettitte and Mussina). And Rivera obviously shouldn’t be pitching two innings every time out in the regular season.
I thought melancon was toruing with springsteen this spring on the white trash tour.
well now i feel better about the 8th inning situation. granted Joba’s 07 debut run was not a fluke… still, i too would like to see him in the rotation eventually, and i have a feeling next season he will be starting in the rotation.
I think it is a lousy idea. What kid grows up wanting to be a bullpen pitcher? Joba is better than this.
I still have no idea why they signed hawkins….has anyone seen his numbers against AL East teams? saying that theyre atrocious would be a gross understatement
i’m not sold on Hawkins either. not by a long shot. we’d be lucky if he do almost as much as Vizcaino did last year… I guess there weren’t a whole lot of options out there for relievers though. what did the Rockies give the Viz? i know they grossly overpaid for him, more than the yankees ever would’ve given him to come back.
Here’s to hoping that Farnsworth has a renaissance season and he, Joba and Mo become somewhat automatic for us, lol.
God willing he’s the primary setup man until he moves to the rotation.
I don’t need to see him playing second fiddle to Farnsworth.
opposing al east teams are going to be looking like Bob the Enzyte guy when the yanks bring hawkins in to hold a lead.
actually, come to think of it, i may be thinking of whatever Octavio Dotel got as being grossly overpaid…still not sure what Vizcaino got in Colorado.
“we’d be lucky if he do almost as much as Vizcaino did last year… I guess there weren’t a whole lot of options out there for relievers though. what did the Rockies give the Viz?”
That’s all they’re looking for. Viz got two years, and I think he might have gone down with an injury already. The Yanks got a supplemental round draft pick for not re-signing him.
So, in sum…they got a guy who’ll probably put up similar numbers on a one-year deal (as opposed to 2) and a draft pick in the 50s.
There wasn’t anyone on the market more compelling.
I think they gave Viz a 3 year deal. Not worth thinking twice about. Viz didnt have a completely smooth year with the Yankees last year. With that said, I think Hawkins will give us the same if not more than Viz did. Which is better. Having a pitcher signed for a year or three that are practically the same? Ill take the one. Keep in mind Hawkins pitched pretty well when he was with Chicago. Maybe we’ll get more than we anticipate from him.
which one of you just called Micheal Kay
Vizcaino: 2 years, $7.5 million.
The back end of the bullpen just got really, really strong.
Brandon,
elaborate.
Oh my Kay is kind of lost too. The Yankees will make the playoffs mostly because of their offense. They don’t necessarily need Hughes,Kennedy and Joba to pitch “exceptionally” well.
“I think they gave Viz a 3 year deal.”
2 years plus a club option, according to Cot’s. 7M over the first two seasons, $4M with a .5M buyout on the third year.
If Hawkins can get a lot of ground balls, which he did last season in Colorado, he can be an effective 7th inning guy.
Frankly, there’s no one available out there more interesting than Ohlendorf, Bruney, Britton, or Patterson. Except Marte, and the Pirates want the moon for him. And they’ll get it from someone too.
Brandon I thought the same thing!! Someone who was very knowlegable about the farm what a novelty!!
Yeah I didn’t get that. They all don’t need to pitch like an ace. a 4-4.5 era would be good enough, of course i’d take better than that. But they don’t need to pitch to a 3.00 era.
we know we have enough pitching to GET to the playoffs with our offense…we just need them to pitch well IN the playoffs…for a change. If Hughes pitches as well in the playoffs in the future as he did when he relieved Roger in game 3 last year…then we have something to look forward to.
“They don’t necessarily need Hughes,Kennedy and Joba to pitch “exceptionally” well.”
He’s right. If they all turn in league average or a little better performances in the rotation, the Yankees will be a MUCH better team than they were last year…when they won 94 games. Schilling’s out for the year, Matsuzaka’s and Lester’s control isn’t going to magically improve, Wake is old and Beckett will start the year on the DL. Sure, Beckett will get healthy and be good, but Matsuzaka will continue to turn in some brilliant performances and some bad ones, Wake will swing between unhittable and horrendous (and go on the DL), Lester will throw 5 innings a start, and Buchholz will show up to throw some good innings at some point. That’s not a dominating staff by any means, though.
And, unless Okajima manages to replicate his 07, their pen isn’t so amazing either. It’ll be good, but the Yankees are certainly in no more a fragile position.
I was hoping that someone called to tell him that the blog’s not feeling “Generation Trey”. They’d probably catch that in the tape delay, though.
Igawa will not, i repeat, will NOT have shades on tonight…. if he pitches well this SOLIDIFIES my theory…
so far this spring…
Igawa with shades, 4.0IP 7H 6ER 4Ks 4BB 1HBP
Igawa without shades 4.0IP 5H 0ER 3K 2BB…
make it or break it time….
“we just need them to pitch well IN the playoffs…for a change.”
Yup. And the best way to do that is have Joba moved to the rotation by two months or so before that.
I mean…really, Joba-Pettitte-Wang-Hughes is going to get you FAR in the playoffs.
Frankly, there’s no one available out there more interesting than Ohlendorf, Bruney, Britton, or Patterson.
Its funny to think our biggest weekness today could be our biggest strength tomorrow. Just a couple years ago we had no catchers in the minor leagues. Now we have an abundance coming up. Today we dont have any bullpen help. But we have Meloncan, Cox and many other starters that will probably move their to help. As much as everyone bangs on Cashman. I would hate to see him leave. Our New dynasty is being built and built fast under his watch.
“Igawa will not, i repeat, will NOT have shades on tonight…. if he pitches well this SOLIDIFIES my theory…”
He’ll actually be blindfolded.
i find it funny that we knock Igawa’s sunglasses, when probably 75% of sunglasses in baseball look ridiculous…
Kay is clueless, if you are going to go on your show, at least know what you are talking about.
When the Yankees went, they voted to give the coaches an equal share!
whozat, i agree with your analysis of the Sox pitching staff and how it compares with the Yankees. it’s nice to see someone else lay it out like that, i’ve been arguing with a lot of people the last couple of weeks who keep telling me the Sox have a lock on the East because they have “way better” pitching.
All according to plan…
The Yankees have a lot of young arms with some upside in the bullpen. Some will be in AAA, a few will make the big team, and of course you have several young relievers coming off injuries. I think over the first half of the year Girardi and Cash will look very closely at guys like Cox, Sanchez, Melancon, Ohlendorf, Veras, etc. When June rolls around and its time for Joba to be a starter they will look at how those guys have done and pick one or two to join the Yankee bullpen with the hope that they can step into the set-up role a la Joba 2007.
Everyone is frightened that Hawkins or Farnsworth will have the 8th inning once Joba leaves but I think the hope is that a young guy will step up and take that role. Also you have to remember that Hawkins has had a lot of success as an 8th inning pitcher. His weakness has always been as a closer, I guess he just doesn’t have the makeup to finish a game.
Hey, everyone who wants to put Brett on the roster as a Dave-Roberts-type off the bench…mlbtraderumors.com is reporting that the Giants want to move the ACTUAL Dave Roberts
i feel a little bit sick everytime i hear about Dave Roberts..
Andrea -
Mark Melancon will start the season at Single A Tampa and work his way up to AAA as the weather warms.
So, just a quick question: Do you guys think A-Rod will have a comparable year to last year, or does he need to wait until 09 to keep up the odd-year trend?
Me too Brian! :sick:
I emailed Kay with a link to Pete’s comment re: Moose.
Those listening let me know if he mentions me
Gammons will be on TMKS @5:00 - hopefully he can supply some FACTS as to what happened today
“I mean…really, Joba-Pettitte-Wang-Hughes is going to get you FAR in the playoffs.”
I agree. To me this is exactly the goal.
No one’s goal for this team is to make the playoffs. It’s to win the world series.
That rotation - joba, pettite, wang, and hughes is the pitching arrangement that gives you the best shot at a ring.
The bull pen will keep evolving over the course of the year.
They have so much talent in the minors - a couple of arms will hopefully force their hand because they are performing so well.
Karstens may start as the long man - but if a Horne or Marquez or McCutcheon pitches well Karstens isn’t keeping that spot if he doesn’t perform.
Hopefully Melancon or Cox is able to move through the system quickly this year.
But the best way to strengthen a pen for the playoffs is to have the starters go deep into games.
Starter goes 7 innings in the playoffs Farnsworth is not going to be getting off the bench, especially with Mo’s ability to get multiple inning saves.
saucY
March 19th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
i find it funny that we knock Igawa’s sunglasses, when probably 75% of sunglasses in baseball look ridiculous…
I think Kei should go with the 80’s flip sunglasses. Have them painted black(cant see through). Pitch with them on and flip them up to get the ball back from Jorge.
“the Sox have a lock on the East because they have “way better” pitching.”
If everything breaks right for them and wrong for the Yankees, sure.
But if the breaks are about equally good for the Yanks and for the Sox…The Yanks are certainly comparable, if not better.
Wake and Moose are good sometimes and bad sometimes and both go on the DL a bit. Joba picks up Moose’s slack. Buchholz picks up Wake’s
Matsuzaka and Pettitte are brilliant at times and poor at others, and wind up a bit better than league average on ERA (Pettitte probably closer to 4.00, but maybe misses a little time with an elbow thing…though he’s thrown 200+ innings for several years straight)
Wang and Beckett win 19 games each and put up an ERA in the mid 3s (Beckett’s is better, but he spends a month on the DL).
Kennedy and Lester throw about 6 innings a start and provide league-average numbers for 400 grand. Lester could be better than that, but his control has always, always been bad and I don’t see it magically getting fixed.
Hughes is way better than whatever 5th starter bum the Sox throw out there, though I’m sure there’ll be times when Buch and Wake are both in the rotation which evens things out. Also, I’m sure there will be times when Karstens/Rasner/Horne step into the Yankee rotation.
I dunno…I REALLY don’t see how the Sox are running away with this.
speaking about sunglasses, are women just going to walk abound wearing motorcycle helmets this summer? it seems each year, womens sunglasses get bigger and bigger.
How often does any team’s full rotation last the whole year without someone missing games? Not that I wish it, but someone will inevitably falter a bit or get hurt. It happens.
If for some reason the bullpen can’t spare him when that happens, the team could conceivably find half season of rotation help elsewhere. But I would expect one of the starting five to run into trouble and Joba would be the man getting moved into the rotation.
With all the talk of Mark Melancon getting called up to the major league ‘pen for the second half, the bullpen could probably spare him. Unless Mo gets hurt. Knock wood.
But Joba could help the team whether he’s a starter (yes, more significantly) or a reliever (situationally).
Of course I understand Joba is eventually going to become starter, whether this year or next.
“I find it funny that we knock Igawa’s sunglasses, when probably 75% of sunglasses in baseball look ridiculous…”
Except the extra cool arod’s on top of the brim look… thats baseball suave at its finest.
“He’ll actually be blindfolded.”
When he doesnt wear his shades, i wish I was blindfolded.
But seriously… I see him pitch 150% more efficiently when he doesnt rock the raybans… lets see what happens
why does dave roberts look like he’s 70 years old?
You know, I’m a woman and I don’t even own a pair of sunglasses…
Its like when I used to pitch wearing a grocho mask. I was never as effective wearing them as I was without them. It was hard to give them up.
“I dunno…I REALLY don’t see how the Sox are running away with this.”
Exactly. i keep needing to remind the folks who claim the Yankees don’t have a chance that the Red Sox only one by 2 games last year. 2 games. and i think the yankees have improved more than the sox. Really, the sox only won the division last year because they lucked out and the entire team stayed pretty much in good health the entire season, and also the Yankees dug themselves in such a hole, which they still nearly climbed out of and put a hell of a scare into the Boston fans in mid september.
We’re restarting the Division champ streak this year…i hate that the Atlanta Braves went 14 straight. most, if not all playoff records should belong to us, am i right?
whozat,
Sign Roberts up!! Make him steal home a couple time a week. Iv never seen a guy take as big a lead off first as he did.
Solution to Igawas control problem. Make him wear 3D glasses.
Listen, I want Joba in the rotation. There’s no doubt about it, but the Yankees decided to go a different way with an obvious plan on how to limit his innings, keep him in the majors and eventually transition him to starter.
No team makes it through the regular season with the same 5 starting pitchers starting every day.
Joba’s in the pen to limit his innings, give the team a chance to get off to a hot start similar to the way we ended the season after his call up and to see what exactly Moose and IPK are going to do as starters before we make any kind of moves.
I agree, Joba should be in the rotation if we make it to the playoffs and I think the team knows after watching Wang spit the bit last year, that we need our best arms being counted on to throw the most innings in that situation.
I just think they’re trying to keep him on target for his innings cap and limiting him early on in the season still lets us use him and have a good chance to win.
Or would you rather them start him on opening day and have him run out of innings by late July early August?
He’ll be a starter. This isn’t Papelbon.
“If he stays in the bullpen all year this year they’ve created a major headache for next year and seriously set back joba’s development.”
———————————————————–
The odds of him staying in the BP are next to nil.
The main reason, as you point out, is the Yankees WANT to get him his full 140+/- IPs, which includes the PS. And Phil is also limited to 160+/- IPs, which included the PS, so they truly need 5 1/2 SPs this year to get through the PS.
If there are injuries to the SPs, you will see Olly and other kids to come up for spot starts.
Joba WILL start after the ASB. 99.3237% guaranteed.
speaking of that braves run…. its funny how no one ever thought to throw bobby cox out on his butt after they started to slip. shows ya how different ted turner is from big stein.. haha.
Brian,
Im sure Atlanta would love to trade their 14 division titles for our 4 championships in 5 years.
Im going to go out on a limb and say boston doesnt smell the playoffs this year.
yeh Jennifer whoever called the Micheal Kay show sounded like an SJ, CB or whozat because they had complete knowledge of the farm system, quoted J.B. Cox returning yesterday, Melancon & Sanchez being an option that the perception is Farnsy and Hawkins that’s not the reality even threw in the innings cap arguement. Honestly that wasn’t a regular 1050ESPN Micheal Kay caller
Does anybody know what Gammons is saying?
good for you rebecca…there are girls that I know that say hello to me when Im going to work or on the bus or subway or whatever and they say hello to me and I have to ask them to take their sunglasses off because they pretty much cover much their entire face and I cant tell who they are(run on sentence of the day).
theyll be like “Hi J Train!!!” and I’ll say, “I cant tell who you are, can you take off your glasses”
Gammons said first that youklis “misunderstood” something but then did not elabarate
then he compared the Sox strike to what the Yanks did yesterday at VT. (whatever)
No real insight as to what happened.
I think he was saying that in past years coaches were paid but not this year, because MLB is getting cheap.
Braves are better than mets and Phils
“I dunno…I REALLY don’t see how the Sox are running away with this.”
I don’t see it either but i have no problem with every imbecile in the media declaring the Sox a foregone conclusion & completely overlooking the Yankees (nevermind the Blue Jays who if healthy may have better pitching than both of them).
I don’t like the way Kay kind of dismissed Cox,Malancon and Sanchez helping the pen. Saying none those guys are going to be Joba.
Well they may not be exactly Joba but they’ll probably be better then Farnsworth and Hawkins.
I now this isn’t likely but if all the SP r doing well at the ASB they should have Joba start in the minors till one goes down or till Sept because Cox or Sanchez took Joba’s spot in the BP and Joba is a starter it just makes to much sense but the chances of ALL the SP doing well and healthy at the ASB is rare
Jax he also ripped Joba last season around June I think and look what happened, the only thing he touched right last year was Ohlendorfh going into the BP and coming up.
Gammons hasn’t seen J.B. Cox, Melancon or much of Humberto Sanchez, though I do agree w/ the Braves being the team to beat in the NL w/ or w/o the Mets having Santana. I’ll add this watch how special Yunel Escobar turns into this season.
Yunel was my stellar fantasy pick of the week of the year… him and masa kobayashi
Jose Paniagua
The betting line is 8 1/2 to 5 that Gammons is going to Japan and John Henry is paying the freight.
No way Joba moves to the rotation this year. You think the Yanks are honestly going to decide to move their top setup guy into the rotation just in time for the stretch run?
Be serious people. The yanks are being extremely coy here and have been since last yeasr when they announced he won’t be in the bullpen. These are all just words because the bottom line is, he’s irreplacable in the pen. He’s to this team what Mo was in ‘96. You don’t take that away and replace it with Farnsworth, no matter the season he has.
I don’t think anyone wants the Yankees to have a true ace in Joba more than me, that being said, hopefully Hughes is dominant and Wang goes into the postseason strong. Then with Joba in the pen, the games will be shortened. Remember Mo pitched 100 regular season innings in 1996, why can’t Joba in 2008?
Arun,
If you dont put him in the rotation this year. You are stunting his innings growth. You cant compare him to Mo. Mo didnt have ace stuff to be a starter. Im sure the Yankees orginization would prefer to have an future ace than a future closer. I expect to see him start no later than July.
Arun the might not find someone who will better as dominate as Joba but there r players that can be dominate in the BP like sanchez and cox among others
here I am in bradenton reporting for duty
Same thing happened with Papelbon in Boston. Look at the big picture folks he’;s staying in the pen. Just too valuable out there. Mo’s two inning and three inning save days are over. Mo needs Joba and the Yanks need Mo. End of story.
And Mo threw 120+ innings as a 2 inning setup guy in 96. Look for the same 6 inning affair this season, all season long.
people have got to stop comparing Joba to MO MO was a failed starter Joba deserves a chance to be a starter something he has done almost his whole career
Arun, is your name really Mike Francesa?
Rebecca - that’s cause you live in Syracuse, where the sun never shines - I kid.
Seems to me that finally telling us what most took to be inevitable barring injury impacts the long relief spot as well.
It probably nakes more sense now leaving Karstens in AAA stretched out as an emergency starter, along with “Shades” and maybe even Phillips. I know many here are very lukewarm on them now, but the alternative fill ins are Wright, White, Marquez, Horne, and McCutcheon. That’s a total of 2 majors starts, and only the first 2 have pitched in AAA. Hopefully they’ll perform to a level where they’re ready if things get messy - but I’d think the Yanks would turn to Joba sooner if we saw a reprise of last April.
That Karstens shifts to starting leaves a 2nd pen spot for the glut of candidates in camp, and I don’t think a pure long guy is an absolute requirement. A number of these guys could likely go 2+ if asked - Phillips, Rasner, Patterson and Ohlendorf for sure, Britton and Alby probably, Edwar and Veras ?, probably not a good role for Bruney. The upside is 2 of them plus Traber (Henn if he shocks us all soon, but he seems to be the forgotten man the Yanks will try to sneak through waivers) as the lefty. The Scranton shuttle will be busy, but that’s the point of having depth. We’ll likely see all of them at some point this season.
haha… jax beat me to it
SOrry but you guys don’;t get it. It’s not about what’s best for Joba it’s about what’s best for the Yanks. This is a team sport that involves sacrifice. The organization, having won 26 titles, knows this better than most other teams.
So Joba will do for the Yanks and Mo what Mo did for the Yanks and Wetteland in 96. Pitch 120 innings out of the bullpen, shortening games to 6 innings and making for a dominant team when rested and ready.
Ask yourself, where does Mo want Joba? Where does Phil Hughes want Joba? Where does Pettitte want him? If Hughes and Kennedy are on innings limits, who’s to say how many dominant pitching performances we’ll see with one of our starters hurling 6 solid innings and then handing the ball to Joba and Mo. They’ll be the most dominant Yankee team we’ve seen since 98. There’s just too many good pitching performances in these guys to not being see an awful lot them this year.
There r more joba like players in the yankees system that can come up and take his place with a 2 era
the big g giving out autographs like crazy. Good guy. I asked him his he feels. Said great and thanked me. Nice
Help, guys? I’m trying to find the splits for Igawa with and without his sunglasses.
Please tell me that Gammons did not compare bringing joy to a whole community by following up on a promise on top of the initial $1M pledge to bringing joy to the coaching staff of the Boston Red Sox. Jimmy27 was joking right?
Mel - No joke.
Both gestures seemed equal to him although he did not say that outloud
He could not contain his pleasure with what the sox have done and what they have become post “idiots”
Of over 27,000 MSNBC readers who took the poll, 84% think that Boston has the advantage at Starting Rotation. Yuck.
Ask yourself, where does Mo want Joba? Where does Phil Hughes want Joba? Where does Pettitte want him?
In the 2008 World Series. Ask yourself if you would rather of had Beckett or Paplebon in last years Series? Yes we really do get it. Again Mo cant be compared to Joba and like some mentioned earlier. An 8th inning guy is easier to find than a top of the rotation stud.
from espn.com (yesterday):
“RODNEY TO START SEASON ON DL (4:30 p.m. ET)
Another key member of the Tigers’ bullpen will start the season on the shelf.
The team announced Tuesday that Fernando Rodney will start the season on the disabled list with right shoulder tendinitis. Flame-throwing reliever Joel Zumaya will also start the season on the disabled list.
“He’s not where we need him to be,” pitching coach Chuck Hernandez said, according to MLB.com, after watching Rodney throw a bullpen session on Tuesday. Rodney threw all fastballs during the five-minute session.
“We still haven’t broken through,” Hernandez said, according to MLB.com, “and we’re going to reassess where we’re at.”
“
Of over 27,000 MSNBC readers who took the poll, 84% think that Boston has the advantage at Starting Rotation. Yuck.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image that, and that’s only 3% of the delusional Boston fans.
I still feel that Joba will be most valuable as a starter so i think it’s a great move to start him in the pen this year. after the things that go on with the mark priors and the francisco lirianos of the world, i wouldn’t want to see joba thrust into a starting role this year and become completely overworked and ruin his arm. very wise move by the yankees, i don’t think it’s part of some plan to ultimatley keep him in the pen. as many have pointed out, we have the talent on the farm to have a formidable bullpen in the years to come.
No surprise there…
@JGNYC: no surprise there either since they have got a lot more attention after winning the Series. Would be interesting to see the same poll after this coming season…
i think we should put wang, andy, hughes, and ipk in the bullpen. think of how dominant that bullpen would be. imagine how short that game would be. /sarcasm
i sure hope stupid isn’t contagious, because there seems to be a lot of it flying around here from time to time.
Mel,
The Detroit Free press warned about this earlier and reported the following:
“Mr. I will save them
Yeah, everybody wants to talk about that Tigers bullpen, or the potential lack thereof. What will they do if Zumaya or Fernando Rodney can’t come back?
Tom Verducci of SI.com: quotes one GM: “Their problem is they cleaned out the cupboard in the Cabrera trade. I don’t know that they have the pieces any more to go get the parts they need.”
But Verducci doesn’t buy the gloom and doom, writing that Mike Ilitch “literally has too much invested in this team to let his fortune sink with a cast of no-name relievers. If the Tigers don’t have answers in-house, they will be aggressive looking for them elsewhere.”
Presume they are watching who the NYYs don’t protect properly. Is this a potential problem?
back bench,
Too bad Bruney has an option left…Maybe they’ll look at Henn?
Then again, some are referring to the Detroit lineup as the best ever. Just like Papelbon’s the best closer in the game now. lol.
If I’m reading the guide correctly, we have video and audio (home).
back bench,
We will gladly give Farnsworth to them.
wsr,
Maybe we’re the cure to stupiditus. Then again. Maybe not.
FYI
DirecTV comes through again. Game on #628.
i hope so SOS
Games on SopCast
I heard Kennedy and Dibble this afternoon discussing how many, many pitchers made their way into the starting rotation by way of the bullpen (long-men, mostly, though), including Pedro Martinez. I’m sorry, but my brain froze and I can’t remember the 4 or 5 other pitchers they named, and I’m sure they will come to me.
But they were making the point that it is not uusual, and in fact was the general practice (not so many) years ago, for pitchers who were too good for the minor leagues, yet still in need of seasoning (or innings) to transition to the starting rotation via the bullpen.
This makes perfect sense to me, and I would be EXTREMELY surprised if the Yankees don’t follow through in getting Chamberlain into the rotation after the ASB. It is in their best interests long term to do so. As someone above pointed out, keeping Joba in the bullpen this season pretty much makes it necessary to go through this whole charade again next season. What a waste of time and talent!
I don’t think Kennedy should follow Mussina in the rotation, as someone above listed, because they are too similar in style. Mussina, Hughes, then Kennedy.
beautiful night here in Bradenton phil is taking long toss under dave’s watchful eye. More updates when liveblog goes up. No pete to be found on the field pregame
Is it possible that Girardi, a true student of the game and someone who values statistics, is using the 1998 season (114 wins) as the template with Ramiro Mendoza (some starts, some relief, one save) as his model for how Joba could contribute to #27 this year? RM went 10-2, 3.25 ERA and pitched 130 innings.
Just asking.
anthem is over. Pirates are hosting their first night game at this park in Bradenton much like their first night game at forbes field. Their president is here presenting bats commemorating 40 years in Bradenton.
“Is it possible that Girardi, a true student of the game and someone who values statistics, is using the 1998 season (114 wins) as the template with Ramiro Mendoza (some starts, some relief, one save) as his model for how Joba could contribute to #27 this year? RM went 10-2, 3.25 ERA and pitched 130 innings.
Just asking.”
Given that Cash was the GM for that team, I figure he’d know all about that. So, I wouldn’t be surprised if things worked out similarly to that season.
doreen, i agree about kennedy/mussina. i’m not sure if this was the thread i posted in earlier at work (lots of bs today at the office), but i had wang-moose-pettitte-kennedy-hughes
kennedy can pitch more innings than hughes, so i have hughes as 5th.
“Is it possible that Girardi, a true student of the game and someone who values statistics, is using the 1998 season (114 wins) as the template with Ramiro Mendoza (some starts, some relief, one save) as his model for how Joba could contribute to #27 this year? RM went 10-2, 3.25 ERA and pitched 130 innings.”
Please no. It’s nice to remember how much Ramiro Mendoza helped but he’s exactly what they need to avoid.
They ruined his arm by throwing him way too many innings. He had a promising career that should have been much longer and more effective.
This decision was expected. It leaves 3 spots up for grabs in the ‘pen.
Rivera, Joba, Farnsworth, Hawkins, Traber, Olhendorf, and Patterson/Bruney should be a decent pen. Olhendorf was a starter so he could serve as a long man as well.
Jay - have they started actually playing yet?
Yanks went down in order in the 1st
1-0 Pirates. Leadoff homerun.
wind assisted HR
phil gives up dinger to leadoff man then pops up Wilson and sanchez
thanks Jay - gameday does not seem to be working and it’s not on tv
phil looks great aside from the first at bat. K’s bay to retire the side.
Nasty K of Bay.
ARun - You don’t get it. The Yankees WANT him to be a starter. Why do you think he started in the minors AND started in ST? If they WANTED him in the BP, he would be there in ST and announced as a reliever.
He is there because the IPs limits cause Joba + Phil = 1.6 SPs. They they are using the extra 0.6 of Joba in the BP, so that both Joba and Phil can get the IPs they need to continue on the SP path. The will both get 150+/- IPS this year and 180+/- IPs in 2009.
Papelbum had arm problems. The Sox got Dice-K, although it was up in the air until the bids were in. Even so, it was a hard decision to put Papelbum in the BP. They are hoping Buchholz and Lester can be SPs.
Phil, Joba and IPK are ALL Starters. However, like Mo, if the don’t have the stuff or health to start, they will eventually go to the BP…. like Mo.
No one has mentioned Edwar Ramirez in the bullpen? The guy dominated at AAA as the closer last year and looked un-hittable at times in the bigs. He has one of the most devastating change-ups in baseball, which makes him a great change of pace setting up Farnsworth, Joba and Mo.
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