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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Wrapping it up from Dunedin

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Mar 20, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Joba on his quick inning: “It felt great. Just getting going, it’s like riding a bike. … I was more aggressive; just attack the zone. You let your competitive edge and your abilities take over. I think I did a better job of throwing my slider. It was back to the slider that I’m used to throwing and not trying to baby it.”

Girardi on Ian Kennedy: “Today’s the sharpest he’s been and that’s a good sign for us. He’s got a couple more starts before we start the season but he looked much better today. He’s so consistent in what he does. He knows it’s about location and changing speeds.”

A few other notes: Don’t get too, too excited about Joba. Two of the kids he faced are Class A players and the other Class AA. But he did have that electric slider he’s been missing all spring. … Kennedy needs to be a little more economical with his pitches and go deeper in games. But you’d much rather have a young player like that as you’re fifth starter than a retread veteran. He’s going to get better and better. … Johnny Damon is an above-average left fielder. He and Melky will get to a lot of balls in the gap.

The beat writers are having dinner tonight with Hideki Matsui. Godzilla invited the writers out when he arrived in New York in 2003. The writers reciprocated the following year and it has become a tradition during spring training. It’s a lot of fun, he’s a good guy and very funny.

Thanks for reading today. The Yankees have a night game tomorrow but I’m going to see CMW pitch his minor-league game at 1 p.m. and will file a report on the blog after that.

Comments

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254 Responses to “Wrapping it up from Dunedin”

  1. JBRO March 20th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    Good stuff, productive day.

    Have fun at dinner…

  2. SJ44 March 20th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Agreed on the hitters Joba faced. But, if his stuff is that nasty, even ML hitters aren’t touching him up too much.

    He was nasty today.

    Agreed on Kennedy. I’d much rather go through the ups and downs of him (and Hughes for that matter) learning the hitters and learning how to be successful, than to deal with a 36 year old retread who used to be good.

    At the end of the day, Kennedy’s year end line will be in line with the better young pitchers in the game this season.

    Plainly put, the guy knows how to pitch. That makes up for being a little short with his fastball.

  3. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    “Agreed on Kennedy. I’d much rather go through the ups and downs of him (and Hughes for that matter) learning the hitters and learning how to be successful, than to deal with a 36 year old retread who used to be good.”

    Exactly.

  4. Rocco March 20th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    What? You mean you wouldn’t rather have a kevin brown or randy johnson???

  5. Jimmy 27 March 20th, 2008 at 6:18 pm

    Or Roger Clemens for that matter

  6. mikethemike March 20th, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    how about carl american idol ????

  7. Jimmy 27 March 20th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    or the guy Suzyn went nuts over last year.

    This actually filters his name out – woe

  8. Therston March 20th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    Don’t get too, too excited about Joba. Two of the kids he faced are Class A players and the other Class AA…

    What does this mean? Like he hasn’t proven he can do the same thing to Major League hitters?

  9. Jimmy 27 March 20th, 2008 at 6:21 pm

    Sorry – it took a while to post

  10. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    I hate Randy Johnson. More than Kevin Brown. Is that weird?

  11. Jimmy 27 March 20th, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    “I hate Randy Johnson. More than Kevin Brown. Is that weird?”

    I don’t think its that weird – but of all the washouts Brown is, in my opinion, the worst- most deserving of ill will

  12. Andrea March 20th, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    But Randy Johnson is just….Randy Johnson.

    Stupid Randy Johnson.

  13. corsari March 20th, 2008 at 6:35 pm

    The last thing young pitchers learn is how to be economical in the Majors, because those hitters usually don’t swing at bad pitches (unless they’re behind in the count). Kennedy will be a very good pitcher in the Majors. In every way he is like a young Moose.

  14. RonH March 20th, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    Pete, tell Hideki we all say Konichiwa from the LoHud blog!!

  15. Bronxbyte March 20th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

    Kennedy showed the heart of a lion today. His wherewithal will see him get more economical with his pitches as he progresses.
    Joba was a little pumped with this being his 1st appearance since knowing where he’ll be on opening day. He’ll drop it a notch and be just as effective.
    Farnsworth will get better knowing that he can’t be putting undue pressure on those that will follow him to close games out.
    It can’t be underestimated how important Jose Molina will be for a full year as Jorge’s backup.

  16. dan l March 20th, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    SJ,

    What is the chance that they use Farnsworth for more than and inning at a time like they did last weekend against the Tigers? If Farnsworth got the calls today would they have sent him back out?

  17. Kelli in Conn. March 20th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    mikethemike
    March 20th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
    how about carl american idol ????

    * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Just a slight adjustment. It’s American Idle.

  18. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    Oh man. Memories of Johnson…he threw a perfect game in Arizona back in like 02 or 03 or 04 or one of those years, and after he got the last out, he didn’t look happy he ju7st looked mad as hell!

  19. Alan March 20th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

    Yep, the spinless pinata is at it again …….

    FORT MYERS, Fla. — Commissioner Bud Selig is not expected to impose any fines or punishment to Red Sox players for a work stoppage that delayed the start of Wednesday’s spring training exhibition game vs. the Toronto Blue Jays at City of Palms Park by more than one hour.

    While Selig has not yet met with his staff to discuss Wednesday’s events, in which players protested the exclusion of coaches and staff in receiving a $40,000 appearance fee for the trip to Japan, word out of the commissioner’s office is Selig will let it go, even though he appears miffed there was a delay in the game.

    Selig, who will attend the Sox-A’s games in Japan, was hands on in trying to work with the Red Sox and Players Association in making sure there was a resolution. In the end the Sox agreed to underwrite $600,000 and will get partial reimbursement from Major League Baseball. The Players Association made no contribution.

    Sox manager Terry Francona spoke twice to Selig on Wednesday. Francona alluded to the fact Selig that expressed to him the desire to get the game played for the sake of the paying customers. Francona said the intent was not to inconvenience fans but to get the dispute settled. Fans were booing when the Red Sox didn’t come on the field. The game eventually resumed at 1:11 p.m., just over an hour after the scheduled first pitch.

    In the end, coaches and staff received their money, which will come out of Major League Baseball’s portion of split revenues (with the players) for the series. The players will not pay any of it. In the past (Yankees-Devil Rays in 2004), coaches, manager, and staff were paid from the player portion of the gate receipts.

  20. Jimmy 27 March 20th, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Andrea,
    Johnson was pretty knarly.
    I’m fairly new to the blog – what does “anti anti” mean?
    I imagine it is a inside joke.

    thanks

  21. Yankee Fan March 20th, 2008 at 6:54 pm

    Joba may not have faced the big boys, but he’s still got it. I feel confident going into this season with each one of the big three.

    Just a slight adjustment. It’s American Idle.
    ————————–
    lol, good one

  22. Joe from Long Island March 20th, 2008 at 6:59 pm

    Enjoy your dinner, Pete.

    The Red Sox sentiments towards their coaches and auxiliary staff is commendable. The way in which they resolved it is much less so. It also opened up how some of their players truly feel about their trip to Japan. So much for the party line.

  23. mel March 20th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    Wait, so the Red Sox boycotted so the coaches’ share wouldn’t come out of their portion of the proceeds? They strong-armed MLB to pay it out of their share? Benevolence at its finest. Wow. That’s just…Wow…What can you say?

  24. Nick March 20th, 2008 at 7:12 pm

    Hideki is all business in uniform but chances are Peter will tell us he’s one of the boys off the field. A real classy thing with taking the beat writers to dinner.

  25. Jimmy 27 March 20th, 2008 at 7:16 pm

    Santana is pitching against the O’s on the fan if anyone is interested.

  26. Jax March 20th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

    Two quick fouls for Beasley.

  27. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 7:26 pm

    My brackets don’t looks so hot right now, though I guess as long as Pitt wins I’m okay.

  28. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    Rebecca -

    I hate when you pick someone to win and they lose, but you also picked them to win the next round. Really, really stinks. So, I did that today.

  29. V is for March 20th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    :woohoo:
    B)
    :confused:
    :0
    :angry:
    :dry:
    :lol:
    :kiss:
    :D
    :pinch:
    :shock:
    :(
    :X
    :side:
    :P
    :whistle:
    ;)
    :s
    :!:
    :?:
    :idea:
    :arrow:

  30. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    Mel,

    So that really puts it in perspective, no?

  31. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    Pete you mean I have to work tomorrow? :lol: j/k I’m off!! WOO HOO!!

    Anti Anti- is a knock on someone who just posts negative things on Mike Mussina.

    I have 5 points in the bracket so far. bad news though, two of my sweet 16 teams are gone, and 1 of my final 4

    I had unc, vandy, texas a&m and Kentucky in the final 4. For the record I am CLUELESS on basketball.

  32. Beezr March 20th, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    “It was back to the slider that I’m used to throwing and not trying to baby it.”

    Pete,
    This statement, to me, screams out, “follow-up question”.

    Was he really “trying” to baby it before? Is that why the results weren’t that great earlier in spring training? And if so, why? Have they determined that if he’s a starter he has to “baby it”? This is important, I think.

  33. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    Jennifer -
    I’ve got 5 points, too. But I picked USC to go to the final 2 and it doesn’t look very good! :)

    I’m not totally clueless, but my let’s just say I picked Kent State because of a song. :lol:

  34. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    Games I lost, kent st, temple, kentucky,

  35. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    Jennifer: thanks for answering that question. I wasn’t paying attention.

  36. mel March 20th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    Doreen,

    Yes, if that’s what happened (is there a link?) then obviously the Sox were not on board with following the precedent set by teams that went before them.

    Youkilis is the player representative that it was difficult to do a conference call with 8 people and that there had been a misunderstanding. If you believe the Red Sox, something was promised. That means that MLB was willing to do something for the Sox players that it was not willing to do for the Yankee players.

    It steams me that the Red Sox were painted as heroes when, and once again that’s if this is true, they were goats.

  37. Ed FL March 20th, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    Peter,
    will the Oakland coaches receive the same amount of money as the Boston coaches? Or the agreement only applies to Boston coaches? Anyone has the answer please.

  38. Jaewon March 20th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    My bracket is on fire. I picked BYU though, they need to come back.

  39. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Gary Cohen just made a comment about Guiseppe Franco on the Mets broadcast…

    he’s famous.

  40. k.s. March 20th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Does Cody Ransom have a chance?

    “Infielder building momentum toward securing roster spot”
    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

  41. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    Who was the Orioles’ closer last year? I forget his name.

  42. Matt Waters March 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    What the hell? Did the O’s just hit and run with a guy on third and less than 2 outs? God, they are going to be such a train wreck this season. At least they’ve finally decided to purge, give them that much.

  43. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    Mel,

    But even if we are to believe what we’re reading, and that the Sox players are on the “up-and-up,” still it doesn’t spin out quite they way they would have us believe. Because it is apparent that the Red Sox, as a team, had as their first thought to boycott the Japan games rather than forego any of their personal monies to compensate their coaches. Seems to me, no matter what the arrangement was, since the whole thing was bungled somehow, if the players were earnest, they could have pooled their money and paid the coaches out of that pool. Their take would have been less, but they would personally have made the statement about the importance of their coaches.

    Beezr –

    I picked up on that statement by Joba as well. Does it just come down to a different mindset starting versus relieving? That when he starts he thinks too much about what he’s throwing and how he’s throwing it because it’s got to last a couple of times through the lineup, as opposed to just letting things air out in relief?

    It also says to me that they are not as gung-ho about going to Japan as they would have us believe. (Not that I blame them.)

    And that 40K is a bonus. It is on top of what they already earn, which is already disgusting (and not limited to the Red Sox, and something I try to ignore so I can continue to enjoy the game). And on top of all expenses paid, if I’m to believe what I’ve read. Free money. 40K free money on top of a couple of million a year. Nice work if you can get it. And their first thought was not to pool their bonus money, but to boycott the games. Peachy. I’m thinking they really can’t spin this in a positive light.

  44. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    Chris Ray.

  45. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    That was weird, my post got split in the middle. I guess I must have done that, but the last paragraph was directed at Mel, and toward the Bosox situation. Sorry for the confusion……………

  46. Clay Bellinger March 20th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    So Pete is going to get drunk with Matsui! Very Nice!

  47. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    Jennifer: thank you. What happened to Chris Ray? the Os claim to have a new closer, who has had 4 saves his entire career.

    I liked Chris Ray. A-Rod was good at hitting Chris Ray :)

  48. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    I’m watching the Mets game. Don’t mock me. But Santana has been on base each time he’s been up to bat. Is he known as a good hitter?

  49. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Ray underwent Tommy John surgery on August 17, 2007 and is expected to miss the 2008 MLB Season [2]

    Link is broken to the note.

  50. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    Andrea – Yes. Santana is a good all-around athlete and was looking forward to being able to hit in the NL. (At least that is what I remember reading somewhere :) )

  51. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    jennifer: you’re just made of information, aren’t you?

  52. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    scroll down and you will see bating info

    http://www.baseball-reference......jo02.shtml

    in 31 ab he is hitting .258 which I guess for a pitcher is pretty good.

  53. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    andrea yep!! :D

  54. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Doreen: I thought I read that, but then I figured it didn’t make much sense for me to think that since he’s been an AL pitcher. i didn’t pay attention to his second AB, but in his first he got a double.

  55. pat March 20th, 2008 at 8:44 pm

    I just checked the Lohud NCAA brackets and I’m 8 for 8 so far. My only pick currently playing that is losing is USC. Let’s go Trojans!!!!

  56. Hobs March 20th, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    Girardi can’t say whether Joba will start this year….

    I am beyond pissed…

  57. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    Andrea -

    On this link there are two references to Santana wanting to hit and his .258 BA in interleague play.

    http://stations.espn.go.com/st.....d_santana3

  58. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    Pat -

    USC and Duke are killing me!!!

  59. Andrea - anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    Doreen: ok, so I didn’t imagine that!

  60. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    Andrea -

    Nope!

  61. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    Games I lost so far:

    Georgia/Xavier
    MSU/Temple
    Kent State/UNLV
    and I’m losing USC

    Games I picked:

    Kansas, Marquette, Pitt, Stanford, Purdue.

  62. Fran March 20th, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    If Duke looses, the bottom half of my west bracket is gone.

  63. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    Fran,

    At least you still have a chance there; I have USC in the MIdWest going to the final. Ouch! They sure look like they’re not going to pull it out. And Tex A&M is not helping me out, either! Last year I picked a lot of bottom seeds on a lark, and none of them worked out. Maybe I should have given that strategy one more year!

  64. Fran March 20th, 2008 at 9:14 pm

    Doreen,

    Actually I did not pick USC. I think I had so many other schools with letters – UNC (who I picked to win it all) and UCLA that I left USC out. It was too confusing!!!

  65. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 9:17 pm

    Belmont, be good little 15 seed kiddies and lose. Cheers, Rebecca.

  66. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 9:18 pm

    Belmont might upset Duke

  67. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    This is no fun! :lol:

  68. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    ‘whew!

  69. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    YES !!! :D

  70. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    wow that was close, another one of my final8 would have been gone.

  71. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    That was WaY too close for comfort.

  72. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    now can you please put USC KSU !!!

  73. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    there goes the 10K USC loss stupid Mayo :evil:

  74. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    Brandon, that one’s a goner (for me, anyway) so I don’t want to see it.

  75. MDD March 20th, 2008 at 9:25 pm

    I hate Oprah.

    Thanks.

  76. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 9:26 pm

    I ripping my bracket at 12 am tonight

  77. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    3 wrong so far today, 7 right.

  78. Sandy March 20th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    I like baseball

  79. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    when you ripping your bracket up Jenn :)

  80. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 9:30 pm

    Hey I don’t know anything about basketball. So I think 70% is pretty good.

  81. Danny Bitzer March 20th, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    A lot of wonderful New York Yankee fans pay significant attention to the 26 World Champions that the Yankees have won…

    Don’t forget that the New York Yankees have been to 39 World Series…

    They have won 26 of them for a winning percentage of .667…

    Win or lose it is great to have them playing in so many championship series and representing New York so well…

    I hope they make it number 40 in 2008…

    Let’s go Yankees!

  82. Jimmy 27 March 20th, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    Jennifer and Andrea Thanks for the Anti Anti answer.

  83. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    If Texas a&m doesn’t win, i’m done.

  84. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    No problem jimmy.

  85. E-ROC March 20th, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    I wonder if the Yanks will take a flyer on John Patterson.

  86. Fran March 20th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    I am glad Duke won – they saved the bottom half of my bracket. So far I am 10-1. But I usually start out well and then fade as the tournament moves on.

  87. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    my south bracket is done!

  88. Yankee Fan March 20th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    @E-ROC I was wondering that too, but I don’t see it happening, especially because of the way he has been playing.

  89. Doreen March 20th, 2008 at 9:38 pm

    Well,

    8 and 4 so far. For all the agita, that’s not too bad. Just that USC is out out out of it for me. My husband’s 10 and 2. Maybe I’ll copy him next time – that’s a strategy! :)

  90. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    umm don’t you mean Scott Patterson :?

  91. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    ouch look at this bracket
    http://lohud.com.pickmanager.c.....38;b=70547

  92. E-ROC March 20th, 2008 at 9:52 pm

    John Patterson of the Nationals was just released @ Brandon.

  93. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Jenn you sure are a risk taker :lol:

  94. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    ohhhh yeh I just checked on trade rumors E-ROC :)

  95. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

    That ain’t me. :wink:

    My team is still in i have Vandy v Texas a&M

  96. E-ROC March 20th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Brandon–Do you know what kind of stuff John Patterson has?

  97. gayle March 20th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Jenn how did you see other peoples brackets i have ot been able to figure thatout yet.

    USC killed me I had them going to the elite 8 other than that i am doing ok

  98. pat March 20th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    I just my bracket and I’m 10-2. USC and BYU are my losses so far but the night is still young.

  99. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 10:02 pm

    http://lohud.com.pickmanager.c.....s/256?p=14

    Just click on any name.

    results and best results and scroll

  100. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

    EROC,

    injuries: Had surgery Sept. 14 to decompress the radial nerve in his right arm after making just seven starts.

    Scouting report: Easy delivery. Good downhill angle. Features a fastball (91-94 mph) with run and sink. Pitches inside with it. Complements his fastball with a pair of above-average breaking pitches, a tight downer curveball and a slider with late break and depth. Throws a split that he’s used sparingly because of arm concerns. Struggles to stay healthy and maintain consistency.

  101. CB March 20th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    E-Roc,

    John Patterson is a really tempting idea. When right he’s very good.

    Unfortunately, I think it says a ton that the Nationals – a team with absolutely no pitching to speak of just released him.

    If Patterson would accept a minor league deal I’d definitely try to sign him and send him to Scranton. Don’t know if he’d accept the deal.

    With him it’s sort of a question about what’s going on with his arm – is it something serious with his elbow or is it scar tissue, etc. like he’s saying it is.

    Maybe his future is as a reliever? Don’t know. But it’s a very good thought. That’s exactly the kind of thinking that got them Scott Patterson, Traber, Morgan Ensberg, Lane, etc.

  102. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    Didn’t the Nats release Rasner?

  103. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    I’m ranked 696. Ouch.

  104. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 10:09 pm

    CB I don’t even think it makes sense for the Nats to let go of SP I mean he hasn’t exactly impressed but he hasn’t royaly sucked either unless the reports are misinforming.

  105. CB March 20th, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    Jennifer – very good call. The nationals did release Rasner and I’m sure they regret it. They really need pitching.

    I guess you can never overestimate Jim Bowden. I have no idea why they released patterson. Radial nerve decompression surgery isn’t really that serious. Maybe their pitching is so thin that they just can’t wait and can’t send him down. He must be out of options.

  106. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    cb that sounds pretty serious. :lol:

  107. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    Just spoke with John Patterson in the Nationals’ clubhouse. He seemed pretty shaken by the news the Nationals had just released him. In fact, he started to address a handful of reporters minutes after getting the news, then decided he needed a few more moments to compose himself.

    But Patterson also said he leaves with no regrets and no hard feelings. Here are some of his initial thoughts:

    *On the reasons he was given for the release: “I think I wasn’t progressing as fast as they wanted. They weren’t seeing what they wanted to be seeing from me. For me to [ potentially] be not 100 percent — it was a risk they weren’t willing to take.”

    *On whether he’s hurt: “I’m not hurt. I just think I didn’t progress as fast as they wanted.”

    *Patterson also said it didn’t help his case that Mark Lerner witnessed his most recent start Sunday in Fort Lauderdale against the Orioles, an admittedly rocky performance. “I pitched pretty well my [previous] two starts,” Patterson said. “But he didn’t see those.”

    *He also said he was “caught in between” Manager Manny Acta’s desire for him “to get outs” and GM Jim Bowden’s desire for him to throw more fastballs.

    *Finally, he said, “I have great memories of D.C. and this organization. I’ll always remember what it feels like to wear this uniform. Jim stuck by me as long as he could stand by me.”

    —————-

    If your the Philadelphia Phillies move on this guy quick

  108. CB March 20th, 2008 at 10:15 pm

    The nationals also cut Traber.

    Patterson has good stuff. He’s never healthy but he does have good stuff, there’s no question about it. He was a very high first round draft pick I believe.

    The nats are not a well run team – look at the fiasco with the Soriano non-trade. Look at their drafts.

    Radial nerve decompression surgery is not serious – but it can take some time to get better.

    Taking chances on marginal guys who have no downside is a good strategy.

    Scott Patterson was in the independent league – the yankees took a flier on him.

    It depends on what Patterson wants. If i were him i wouldn’t sign with the yanks because of their depth but who knows what his choices are.

  109. whozat March 20th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    “He also said he was “caught in between” Manager Manny Acta’s desire for him “to get outs” and GM Jim Bowden’s desire for him to throw more fastballs.”

    That’s an organizational problem. Get your story straight, Nats!

    It’s spring training, manny…who cares about outs? The guy needs to build up to pitching again.

  110. E-ROC March 20th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    Thanx, Brandon.

  111. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    this one will crack people up

    on nationals.com and it says he was cut due to “lack of performance”.

    JPat said “They told me I didn’t blow the doors open and that there were other pitchers pitching better,”

    whose is next Hill ?

  112. CB March 20th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    The nationals are going to have a very painful year. They are moving into a new publicly financed park and what fan base they have is getting very impatient.

    RFK was an enormous pitchers ball park. The new stadium is very small.

    Their poor pitching is going to be even more exposed this year.

    Jim Bowden – it’s amazing he has a job running a team.

  113. E-ROC March 20th, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    Hill for Cy Young!! LOL. Poor Patterson. He’ll catch on somewhere. Giants. Astros.

  114. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    I need an opinion on Harold Garce people say he could be the next Ubaldo Jiminez anyone have an insight on him RHP throws 98-99 MPH from D.R. in the Yankee farm system

  115. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 20th, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    CB were were the old and new dimensions.

  116. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    If Bowden has a job, what does this say about Steve Phillips?

  117. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    Rebecca,

    that he must have sucked :idea:

  118. CB March 20th, 2008 at 10:43 pm

    jenn – good question. I don’t know the exact dimensions – RFK was basically not converted for baseball at all as it was a temporary home. So the nats were playing in one of those cavernous football stadiums – a lot like the marlins.

    Many of the nats pitchers have large splits in their home/ road ERA’s for instance.

  119. Dave S. March 20th, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    ….oof…Bowden and Phillips? Do we really have to think about them? So long as we’re asking about total idiots that somehow manage to convince people they belong on the brain side of baseball, what about Dusty “don’t want that silly high OBP Clogging up the bases” Baker? Ouch.

    Andrea and Beezr…er…don’t read too much into the difference between Joba’s spring-training starter and reliever performances. It’s March. I mean, do you really think that I-Rod’s 6 homers are going to lead to a 30+ homer season for him, or Traber will manage to retain his 0.00 ERA facing both lefties and righties? March means almost nothing. It’s time to get ready for the season and to work. It’s good that the Yanks are working him up slowly by putting him in the bullpen now, but I think that Joba’s going to be a fine starter when the time is right. Keep in mind that his stint late last year was his first time in the ‘pen in his short career. He’s lit up the competition as a starter at every level of his development. Don’t let the story of the psychological get to you in March. This is the month of all sorts of mirages, good and bad alike.

  120. Yank Me March 20th, 2008 at 11:05 pm

    Is Hughes considered to be a “power pitchers”?

  121. Yeah! March 20th, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    Yank Me

    Nope, to my understading, to be consider a power pitcher you have to sit at 94-94 mph.

  122. Yeah! March 20th, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    94-95MPH—typo!!

  123. Neil March 20th, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Whatever Hughes is, he is the man.

  124. Yeah! March 20th, 2008 at 11:10 pm

    94-95MPH…typo!!

  125. Yeah! March 20th, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    Neil,

    You’re right about that,I think he will become a number one starter oneday. The kid is so calm for his age is rare to see.

  126. Yank Me March 20th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    What’s his fastball now? 90-91?

  127. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 11:17 pm

    has anyone heard anything on Jonathan Sanchez of the SF Giants I mean he’s a LHP w/ some upside instead of cornering thoughts on Marte and Fuentes why not him ?

  128. Yank Me March 20th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    How’bout Wang? He can get his sinker up to 95 right?

  129. E-ROC March 20th, 2008 at 11:28 pm

    I haven’t heard much on Jonathan Sanchez.

  130. rbizzler March 20th, 2008 at 11:29 pm

    First off, as I live in DC Nats fans are very surprised about Patterson’s release. Also CB, the fanbase isn’t really getting all that frustrated as there has been noticeable progress made within the franchise over the last two years. You can rip their drafts all you want but Detweiler will be a useful piece and Smoker (LHSP) looks to be a steal in the sandwich round last year. Bowden (although it is shocking that he still has a job) was able to snatch Milledge from the Mets for spare parts in the off season. Not a bad move. They also overachieved last year considering that they were expected to be historically bad.

    Moving on, and pardon me if this has been posted earlier but Kenny Rosenthal had this to say about Ensberg (who I hope makes the team as it doesn’t look like he will accept a AAA assignment):

    # Morgan Ensberg, trying to stick with the Yankees, could be another option for the Dodgers; he can ask for his release if the Yankees do not add him to their 40-man roster on Friday.

    The Yankees, by placing Ensberg on their 40-man list, would guarantee his $1.75 million contract, increasing his chances of making the club.

    Yankees hitting coach Kevin Long, who helped revitalize Alex Rodriguez last season, also is making a difference for Ensberg, who is batting .313 with five doubles in 32 at-bats this spring.
    If Morgan Ensberg doesn’t stay in pinstripes, he could be in blue. (Eliot J. Schechter / Getty Images)

    “It’s shocking,” Ensberg says. “Everything he does is so simple. He gets rid of all of your excess motions, gets you down to a good foundation.

    “I used to be a guy with eight different stances and eight different hand positions. Now I’m down to one. And it took only one session, one 15-minute deal in the batting cage.

    “This is the most consistent 3-4 weeks of an approach I’ve had in my life.”

  131. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    Brandon, I think the phrase “on the Giants” probably ddoes a lot of harm to his reputation…

  132. rbizzler March 20th, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    Rebecca,
    Not for nothing but the Giants have some good young arms. Lincecum, Cain, Wilson and Sanchez come to mind as guys I would love for the Yanks to acquire. It is their offense that is going to be sorely lacking. Brutal combination of over-the-hill guys and AAAA players. Not a good mix.

  133. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    that kid has a great arm Rebecca…

    EROC IDK it’s like no one has thought to ask for this kid I mean why are we fishing Marte and Fuentes and not putting the pressure on them w/ shopping for Sanchez instead.

    J.Sanchez

  134. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    that kid has a great arm Rebecca…

    EROC IDK it’s like no one has thought to ask for this kid I mean why are we fishing Marte and Fuentes and not putting the pressure on them w/ shopping for Sanchez instead.

  135. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 20th, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    Kevin Long must have done some good in a past life, because he is like the resurrector in batters career

  136. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    rbizzler: Yeah, you’re definitley right.

  137. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 March 20th, 2008 at 11:54 pm

    Stupid West Virginia.

  138. rbizzler March 21st, 2008 at 12:02 am

    Rebecca, how can you root against the Big East?

  139. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 21st, 2008 at 12:05 am

    ah Rebecca no you fell for the Joe Alexander hype, he’s a freshman you should have known better :lol:

  140. rbizzler March 21st, 2008 at 12:07 am

    West Viginny was vicotorious…

  141. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 21st, 2008 at 12:08 am

    on the other hand I can’t believe Mayo choked vs Beasley :evil: kid do not step into the NBA your not ready yet

  142. rbizzler March 21st, 2008 at 12:09 am

    But West Virginny was vicorious…

  143. rbizzler March 21st, 2008 at 12:10 am

    No more spelling errors for me tonight, good night y’all.

  144. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 21st, 2008 at 12:13 am

    I heard you the first time rb …DAMMIT!

    my bracket

  145. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 21st, 2008 at 12:42 am

    slow night, I guess I’ll turn the lights out tonight

    *click*

  146. G. Love March 21st, 2008 at 12:53 am

    I was reading about Patterson and it seems his velocity was off, but the scouts felt it would return with innings.

    It looks like the Nats didn’t want to wait

    I have a feeling the guy will have a job starting in someone’s rotation fairly quickly. He’s a low risk upside type of guy to another organization.

    If he doesn’t get an offer and were willing to come to the Yankees let him build up his arm strength with the promise that if he gets his velocity back he’s next in line for a rotation spot or he’s the long man which I think will be a vital role on this club.

    The guy is never healthy though so he’s nothing to go nuts about.

    He had some sick numbers a few seasons ago. He had a 1.19 WHIP in almost 200 innings in 2005, but that was 3 years ago.

    Still, some team will gobble him up. I’m sure the Phillies and the Mets have both put in calls already.

  147. mel March 21st, 2008 at 1:05 am

    E-ROC! Where ya been? Are you in Idaho?

  148. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 21st, 2008 at 1:05 am

    Phillies might Mets have turned him down already

  149. Brandon (Proud supporter of "Alex being Alex" ) (I slay the Anti) March 21st, 2008 at 1:18 am

    John Patterson’s best outing

  150. nyyfaninlaaland March 21st, 2008 at 1:55 am

    Patterson was supposedly throwing LOW 80′s fastball’s. Now I’m sure that will improve, but if Moose were in the low 80′s we’d all be screaming to release him.

    Brandon – SF is trying to rebuild but still stuck with a few vet contracts through ’09. There not in the business of trading 25 year old lefties that throw 95ish. Unless you want to part with something very serious. Same applies to Wilson. Unfortunately the other 29 teams aren’t sitting around waiting to trade us their top kids.

    Hope that didn’t sound harsh – that wasn’t my intent. But upside kid pitchers are what everybody wants, so you’re gonna have to give to get. What do you give?

    Stupid me didn’t didn’t get in the Lo-Hud bracket. I was 14 of 16 tonight – missed on 2 mild upset picks, Baylor v. Purdue and Kent vs UNLV. I liked that song too.

  151. nyyfaninlaaland March 21st, 2008 at 2:23 am

    Cuts should be coming soon.

    I expect Christian, Porter, Castro, the AG (is it true Bush picked his namesake for the job cause he had the right initials?), Phillips, and Giese. Maybe Stricklnad since he’s had little action and they’ll give him time to hook on elsewhere.

    Giese looked a bit spotty today, but the ump had the squeeze on everybody a bit. Great post on Jennings’ SWB blog on Giese and his control (scroll down):

    http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.....fault.aspx

    Chad Jennings’ blog is very good – great coverage of ST majors and high minors, and a great sequence of photos and captions of Shelly’s slide today. Hmmmm, catcher blocked plate, Shelly dives, and … practically kills himself. Love it – take that Rays!

    Then comes the hard part – the final bench and pen spots. My guess is Ensberg (though he might fit in a trade package for Sanchez, Brandon – SF needs a 3B, but it’s gonna take more than that), then final pen 3 of Traber, Bruney (only 2 BB so far and 1 bad outing), and Britton. Different style than the hard throwers, he’s steady, keeps the bases clear.

    Make for a nice kinda pudgy group with Britton, Bruney, and Joba (The 3 Pigs). Mo could be the Big Bad Wolf – be nice if Farns could, may be too much to ask, ’cause then the Sandman could tell the bedtime stories. Got nothin’ for Hawk and Traber.

    Edwar still needs work on pitches to set up his change, Patterson goes to get AAA testing, Alby and Ohly have WHIP’s too high. Rasner’s got to learn how to pitch with a crooked finger. Just my opinion – lots of good reasons and choices (read: Depth!) either way. But experience isn’t always a bad thing. Wonder if Henn will clear waivers?

  152. UtilityMan March 21st, 2008 at 3:06 am

    Just got in from Tampa…….met Dan Geise after his 2/3 of an inning outing….very nice guy.Might be a mid season call-up if necc.Sean Henn was no wheres to be found.I only saw him at the Yankee Luncheon.
    Strickland was back in camp the last 2 days…..another mid season call-up if necc…thats if he stays and goes to Scranton.

  153. Andrea - anti-anti March 21st, 2008 at 3:09 am

    I really like Ohlendorf. I wish he had a shot.

  154. MikeEff ( Shelley: Everyday ) March 21st, 2008 at 4:04 am

    i really got here late… night all….

  155. Andrea - anti-anti March 21st, 2008 at 4:29 am

    night, MikeEff.

  156. mel March 21st, 2008 at 4:39 am

    Add Meatloaf to the list of celebrity Yankee fans:

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....;fext=.jsp

    Also, from the File under Freaky File: McNamee fainted and ran head on into a bus in Queens.

  157. Andrea - anti-anti March 21st, 2008 at 4:53 am

    Is McNamee ok?

  158. mel March 21st, 2008 at 5:04 am

    Andrea,

    Yes. Here’s the details: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb

  159. Andrea - anti-anti March 21st, 2008 at 5:09 am

    thanks Mel.

    Oh, andI was just looking at things (because it’s 5am and I cannot sleep) and I just found out that Tanyon Sturtze and Mike Myers are at Dodgers spring training as non-roster invitees.

    Joe Torre sure does love his boys. At least now Scott Proctor and Tanyon Sturtze can hold each other when they are scared.

  160. Nick March 21st, 2008 at 6:57 am

    Decision day with Morgan Ensberg ….

    http://www.waswatching.com/

  161. murphydog March 21st, 2008 at 7:31 am

    Andrea and Mel:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ashup.html

    I don’t have a Lexus. I guess McNamee ain’t that broke if he’s driving one, is he? (Unless he borrowed it, in which case he’s got a lot of ‘splaining to do).

  162. Russell NY March 21st, 2008 at 8:18 am

    “Oh man. Memories of Johnson…he threw a perfect game in Arizona back in like 02 or 03 or 04 or one of those years, and after he got the last out, he didn’t look happy he ju7st looked mad as hell!”

    That’s because he could have done better :)

  163. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 8:37 am

    i was blown away watching kennedy pitch yesterday. he is so in charge out there. he did give up a few doubles and a couple of runs, but he threw strike one, threw his 73mph curve for a strike every time, forced alot of checked swings and nobody looked comfortable up there. and this was the blue jays everyday lineup!
    joba was untouchable by the kids later but ill reserve judgement until he’s facing ml batters.
    this is going to be a great season!

  164. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 8:42 am

    o i left out that kennedy’s 89mph fastball was just on the fringes of the zone everytime and it looked like the hitters never expected it. i could see him winning around 13-14 this year (out of maybe 25 starts!)

  165. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 9:01 am

    “Nope, to my understading, to be consider a power pitcher you have to sit at 94-94 mph.”

    Hughes DOES sit at 94-95 mph, he is a power pitcher.

    “Then comes the hard part – the final bench and pen spots. My guess is Ensberg (though he might fit in a trade package for Sanchez, Brandon – SF needs a 3B, but it’s gonna take more than that), then final pen 3 of Traber, Bruney (only 2 BB so far and 1 bad outing), and Britton. Different style than the hard throwers, he’s steady, keeps the bases clear. ”

    Ensberg sounds right. Britton I disagree with. He is not a good pitcher, he has no stuff. My pen would be: Mo, Joba, Farns, Hawkins, Traber, Bruney, Ramirez. I’d consider Veras, Ohlendorf, Patterson for those last two spots too.

  166. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 21st, 2008 at 9:09 am

    I thought Mac was living in a one room house in Rockaway. Somehow he can afford a Lexus, never mind the insurance on it. What a fraud!

  167. OldYanksFan March 21st, 2008 at 9:11 am

    IPK threw a total of 168 IPs last year (MiLB and MLB). My guess his IPs limit with be 190+/=, or 31 starts at 6 IPs. Basically, that’s a full year.
    Phil’s limit looks be be around 160, or 26 starts.
    Joba threw 112 IPs last year, so I’ll guess 140+/- IPs in 2008. That might be 70 in the BP and 8-10 starts?

    I’m not sure with Joba and Phil who will start and who’s in the BP for (assuming we get there) the PS.

    We only need a 4 man rotation for the PS, so Moose may be out (used in long relief) unless he has a really good year. So for the PS, it’s Wang, Andy, Phil, IPK for SPs and Joba and Mike in the BP?

    Should be interesting. It will really depend on how well WHO pitches.

  168. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 9:12 am

    why would SF trade for ensberg now when they could’ve just signed him? oook….

  169. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 21st, 2008 at 9:13 am

    http://assets.espn.go.com/espn.....index.html

    Part of Jorge’s episode is up. His wife is also in it.

  170. Rishi March 21st, 2008 at 9:22 am

    thought you might be interested…Rob Neyer over at ESPN:

    • I’ve never spent more than eight hours on an airplane, nor have I flown across the Pacific Ocean. Nevertheless, I hope you’ll pardon me if I don’t feel sorry for the weary Red Sox. I have been lucky enough to fly first class a few times, and I’m fairly sure the Sox’s airborne accommodations were at least that nice. When I think “weary” I think of the old-timers who might have spent 18 hours trying to relax on a train without air conditioning, or the minor leaguers who, even today, might spend 18 hours trying to stay loose on a bus. I know: jet lag. I get it. But sometimes a reality check’s in order.

  171. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 21st, 2008 at 9:27 am

    ha-ha

    Do you know that the team was too “good” to make a 2 hours bus trip that they flew!!

    Hopefully this all went to their heads.

  172. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 9:28 am

    i think if kennedy pitches well all year, you would want to save maybe 15 innings or so for the PS. that would leave him in the 24-27 start range.

  173. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:29 am

    Ensberg has to make this club – I see him as I thought Betemit would be last year – the first guy off the bench, capable of power, give him a decent number of at-bats every week (2-3 starts), hope he gets off to a good start (.300/.375/.500 or so), and trade him to a team that needs a starting 3B.

    He’s worth very little right now. 2005 was very good, 2006 was ‘eh’ (BA stunk, but he had his best OBP of his career, power dropped a lot), and 2007 was mediocre. If he can show his 2005 self again, if just for a month as a backup, you can deal him for that bullpen help we’re craving.

  174. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 9:33 am

    as far as ensberg, there are holes in the BP and it might not be bad to find another MLB experienced SP, so i could see cash using the outfield depth, plus maybe ensberg in a trade for some pitching help.

  175. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 9:33 am

    power dropped b/c he was taking roids in 05

  176. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:35 am

    Also, if Kevin Long is as good as we’re hearing (ARod last year, Ensberg now) – perhaps the Yankees scouts should be concentrating on the ‘Ensberg-type’ players out there – players that were once good hitters who for some reason (inconsistency) aren’t all that great anymore, and could be fixed?

    Sort of the Dave Duncan of hitters?

    Brandon Inge comes to mind. 2004 was his best year, by far.

  177. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 9:36 am

    no one wants ensberg. teams might trade for gardner though.

  178. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 21st, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Wrong, I believe Ensburg was hurt. Is all you think about is players doing roids?

  179. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Come on – you don’t suddenly lose power by coming off the roids.

    Giambi anyone? His 2006 was solid.

  180. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:39 am

    Gardner is worthless – an unproven singles hitter who was good at AA last year – a dime a dozen in the minors.

  181. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 9:41 am

    giambi is still on HGH. besides there’s no test for HGH so why should he stop using? i dont think giambi is the only one i think most of these players are on some sort of performance enhancer.

    and ensberg is worthy why? he hasn’t had a good season since his steroid year.

  182. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 9:43 am

    HGH does nothing if you are older than ~20

  183. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 9:43 am

    dont see the yankees moving any big pieces yet, but they certainly must be looking for som BP help, esp. a lefty.
    by midseason, if nobody else has stepped up, i could see them moving giambi or matsui for a big pierce that allows joba to move to the rotation.

  184. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 9:43 am

    Girardi will carry a long man. That means Karstens, Patterson, or Rasner is making the team.

  185. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 9:44 am

    Trading Giambi or Matsui for a bullpen arm? You’re joking right?

  186. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 9:44 am

    yeah increased hormone levels does nothing. good one.

  187. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:44 am

    You think Giambi’s on HGH, despite the fact that he’s held under a microscope, and HGH doesn’t improve power?

    This conversation is over – ignorance isn’t all that amusing.

  188. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 9:45 am

    Y’s Guy,

    good thing they have Traber so they dont need to make any moves just yet.

  189. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 9:45 am

    giambi, with 2 months left on his contract, yes i could see him going, and even matsui for someone who they see taking over for mo.

  190. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 9:46 am

    anti,

    It’s proven that HGH does nothing for people who’s bodies are already developed. I don’t know how else to say it..

  191. jennifer-Phil Hughes saved!! Mussina is NOT DONE! anti-anti March 21st, 2008 at 9:47 am

    OH god, he was hurt!! He was still recovering from a shoulder injury!

  192. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:47 am

    HGH does not benefit power hitters.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/s.....038;page=1

    “yeah increased hormone levels does nothing. good one.”

    Is this considered an argument?

  193. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 9:48 am

    Patrick,

    I don’t know if that is proven and unanimously accepted. It may be one opinion but I would be careful about saying that it is fact.

  194. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 9:49 am

    and that’s an argument? it wont even load. answer this then- why dont MLB legalize HGH if it does nothing?

  195. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 9:49 am

    ok patrick so its ‘proven’ that hgh doesnt help. so why are so many mature atheletes paying tens of thousands of dollars and risking thier careers to take it?

  196. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:49 am

    Regardless, I thought Ensberg was a very smart signing, and there are several teams who would love to have a 2005-version Ensberg as their starting 3B. If he shows, over the course of a month or so, as a backup, the same skills he had then, the Yankees will have a solid trading chip.

  197. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 9:49 am

    V,

    from your article:

    “But the new research has some limitations and sheds no light on long-term use of HGH. The scientists note their analysis included few studies that measured performance. The tests also probably don’t reflect the dose and frequency practiced by athletes illegally using the hormone. ”

    Let’s just say we don’t know what it can and can’t do for now. None of this is fact.

  198. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:51 am

    “and that’s an argument? it wont even load. answer this then- why dont MLB legalize HGH if it does nothing?”

    Because it’s illegal without a prescription.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08.....tions.html

  199. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Y’s Guy,

    First of all, nobody would take Giambi. He is due something like 20 million this year, can’t field worth a lick and is a big injury risk.

    Secondly, Matsui’s value is greater than almost any reliever. You say we should trade him for someone that will replace Mo? Who would that be? Joe Nathan, K-rod, Putz, etc. There is no way that trade would ever happen. No team would give up a bonafide shutdown closer for Matsui and the Yankees wouldn’t take a BP pitcher for him. Plus Matsui has a no-trade clause and I believe Giambi does as well.

  200. Hendo March 21st, 2008 at 9:52 am

    Did the beat writers take Igawa out to dinner this year to return the favor from him taking them out last year?!?!???!

  201. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:53 am

    anti-mussina – your level of logical argument is approaching that of a child. Can you give one solid reason why I should believe Giambi was (in 2006) or is (currently) using HGH?

    Because I just think you’re talking out your rear-end.

  202. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 9:53 am

    If Ensberg performs well, why would they trade him? They need some good right-handed hitters.

    If their bullpen doesn’t start well, they will have plenty of replacements in the minors.

  203. Jax March 21st, 2008 at 9:53 am

    David Price left a minor league game with an arm injury. Yikes!

  204. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 9:54 am

    anti-mussina,

    agreed. it’s ridiculous to suggest that Giambi is using HGH without having anything to support it.

    Could he be? sure. but every player could be. don’t single him out.

  205. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Jax,

    wow. that would be a huge blow to his development if it’s serious. ouch.

    is this ‘bad karma’ for the tough and gritty TB Rays?

  206. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 9:55 am

    you’re wrong, V. just admit it and cry in your corner.

    I’m right again just like when mussina bombs all you haters will be eating crow.

  207. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:56 am

    “If Ensberg performs well, why would they trade him? They need some good right-handed hitters.”

    Because he’s worth MUCH more as a starting 3B than as a backup (I wouldn’t trade him for garbage, obviously – the Yankees would be in a position of strength) – presumably, some team with a dire need would trade pieces (bullpen, possibly prospects?) that the Yankees would prefer.

  208. V March 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am

    “you’re wrong, V. just admit it and cry in your corner.

    I’m right again just like when mussina bombs all you haters will be eating crow.”

    You’re a fool and a child. ‘You’re wrong’. Not sure where you learned that intelligent rebuttal. I am sorely defeated.

  209. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am

    oh yeah V im talking out of my ass. you’re the one who pulls articles out of google and considers it fact. hey dude, this is for you *middle finger*

  210. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am

    It is pretty widely accepted that HGH does little to increase muscle mass in adults. Prior to the congress steroid hearings, they brought in experts that essentially said the same thing.

  211. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am

    Jax,

    what is your source on that?

  212. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am

    patrick, you have no imagination. if the yanks are doing fine with duncan at 1b and matsui at dh, the would move giambi in a second and eat the last 2 months of his contract for a set-up man from a contending team that need a LH bat.
    of course you dont get a top of the line closer straight up for matsui, idiot. that doesnt mean he doesnt have alot of trade value that could be packaged toward someone.

    every no trade clause in mlb is negotiable.

  213. hmmm March 21st, 2008 at 9:58 am

    “power dropped b/c he was taking roids in 05″

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports.....8480_x.htm

    according to this article, Ensberg tore a tendon in his shoulder on June 9, 2006.

    from April 3 – June 9, he was hitting .256/.380/.562 with 18 HRs.

    from June 15 – September 29, he hit .208/.415/.333 with 5 HRs.

    accusing Ensberg of doing steroids without doing the slightest bit of research (this took 3 minutes) is pretty disgraceful.

    you are an idiot and a troll.

    i would suggest that you should be banned for accusing a player of cheating with zero evidence, but Pete basically made the same implication with regard to Ensberg, so i guess that sort of this is OK on this site.

  214. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 9:59 am

    V,

    sure. if they can get good value then it makes sense. but i think it makes sense to hold on to him if he is playing well (and playing 1b alright) unless a team is willing to overpay a little for him.

  215. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 10:00 am

    .256 is a crappy avg. if hes going to hit that he might as well be traded.

  216. Boston Dave March 21st, 2008 at 10:01 am

    Y’s Guy,

    anything is possible but its very difficult to project these trades now. we have no idea what the team will look like in a few months. their bullpen could be dominant (wishful thinking?).

    so sure, not many trades are impossible. but the giambi deals seems unlikely right now. we’ll see how things look in july.

  217. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 10:03 am

    was talking about giambi’s last 2 months, i think that would indicate a trede deadline deal right?

  218. hmmm March 21st, 2008 at 10:04 am

    “.256 is a crappy avg. if hes going to hit that he might as well be traded.”

    ok, i get it. you are simply a troll trying to get people to react.

    surely you don’t really believe this.

    i’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here and saying you must be a troll instead of someone who actually believes a .256 batting average paired with a .942 OPS is bad.

    no one could possibly be that stupid.

    so congrats, you’ve accomplished your goal of getting people to react to you.

  219. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 10:05 am

    no im not a troll. i guess its ok to have ensberg and shelly platoon b/c next year texeira will be signed. the only roadblock i see is cashman because he sleeps with his prospects.

  220. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Y’s guy,

    I’m an idiot because I recognize when trade scenarios are absurd? My point is that Matsui’s value to the Yankees is greater than any reliever would be unless that reliever is a top of the line closer or near that. Thus packaging Matsui with other players to get a closer would be as bad if Matsui was traded for a middle reliever. To get back equal value the Yanks would have to get a top of the line player or prospect and no team would make that trade.

    So now your scenario is that Giambi has a good first half, we trade him for a reliever and eat his salary? So now the Yankees pay 20 million + the reliever’s salary and we lose Giambi? The Yankees are rich but they aren’t going to pay 25 million for an 8th inning setup man.

    I still haven’t mentioned the fact that the Yankees don’t even need a replacement for Rivera, not sure if you saw the news but we signed him to a 3 year contract this winter. Even if he doesn’t play out that contract we have several prospects in the minors that have a good chance of becoming our future closer.

  221. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 10:08 am

    i hope rivera doesn’t bomb b/c it forces chamberlain to the closer role.

  222. hmmm March 21st, 2008 at 10:12 am

    “So now the Yankees pay 20 million + the reliever’s salary and we lose Giambi?”

    technically, if they were trading him mid-season, you’d only be talking about $10M.

    if Giambi had a good first half, i don’t think the Yankees would have to pay his whole salary though.

    what they WOULD have to do, is pick up a good part of the buyout for 2009, which is $5M.

    so, maybe they’d have to send around $7-8M?

  223. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 10:16 am

    patrick,
    think before you type. if the yanks move giambi in a trade deadline deal, how much are they going to pay him for the last 2 months? the answer is around $6M. and yes, if they are still overloaded with a LH bats and still needing a set up man, they will eat $6M plus the set-up guys salary.
    and are you saying there are no relievers in mlb that you would include matsui in a trade for? it is nice that you expect mo to be an effective closer throughout his contract, but I have my doubts.

  224. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 10:19 am

    you have to consider that the $5M payout for giambi’s 2009 is already spent and should have no bearing on any possible trade. the yanks will pay that no matter what uni giambi finishes the season in. the last payment for the ill advised contract they signed.

  225. hmmm March 21st, 2008 at 10:20 am

    the problem with this scenario is that the likely destination for Giambi would be a team that was close to a playoff spot but in need of a bat.

    is a team in that position going to trade one of their very good relievers?

  226. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 10:23 am

    relievers move at the trade deadline more than any other players, even among contenders, there will be some available.

  227. hmmm March 21st, 2008 at 10:32 am

    “it is nice that you expect mo to be an effective closer throughout his contract, but I have my doubts.”

    from this quote, it sounds like you are talking about a closer-level reliever.

    not too many contending teams trade relievers of this quality at the deadline.

    if you are talking about a relief prospect, that’s a different story.

  228. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 10:34 am

    joe nathan will be available b/c the twins suck.

  229. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 10:37 am

    yes my initial post was that they may make a trade for someone they think could replace mo. and i got shot down all around about how impractical i am. the yanks have surplus at certain positions and people throw up roadblocks to anything that might address that. im sure cash is working overtime right now looking at all the possiblities. i think this team will look different at the finish of the season than it does now.

  230. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 10:42 am

    Y’s Guy,

    I think very clearly before I write, it is now obvious that you do not. Two months of Giambi is more than $6 million, closer to $8-10 million. If he is having a good season, why would the Yankees trade a slugging 1B for a middle reliever? In your scenario they would be paying his entire year’s salary whether they keep him or trade him. So it comes down to, do you want to pay his money for good production at 1B or for a reliever that is no guarantee to succeed in NY?

    I listed the relievers I would trade Matsui for. Nothing short of a stud closer or setup man would get it done for me. This includes guys like K-rod, Nathan, Putz, etc etc. You don’t trade 25 HR, 100 RBI, .850+ OPS outfielders for middle relievers.

    IF the yankees need a reliever at the trade deadline it is much more likely they will trade prospects.

  231. V March 21st, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Man, I wish there was a feature to forcibly ignore trolls on here.

    anti-mussina, you make us all dumber for your presence.

  232. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 10:46 am

    You got shot down because the Yankees don’t need a replacement for Mariano right now. Perhaps in 2 or 3 years they will but there has been no indication that he’s ready to break down now. The Yankees already have excellent relief prospects so why trade away players that could help us this year for more of what we already have? On the other hand, if you want an established closer why trade for one now when he will just be the setup man for another few years?

  233. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 11:08 am

    stop harassing me all the time, V. my posts are not personal just opinions.

  234. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 11:10 am

    “If he is having a good season, why would the Yankees trade a slugging 1B for a middle reliever? simple, if they have other usable options at 1B and the bullpen tanking.

    so now you agree that matsui may be used if there is still a need in the bp i guess you had a cup of coffee and woke up.

  235. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 11:13 am

    i really dislike anti-mussina’s attitude most of the time, but anybody who didnt think that ped’s might have affected ensberg is hiding his head in the sand. and his belief that moose is done is not unique.

    if andy pettitte was using hgh, and then even lied while appologizing about it, in my mind, just about every mlb player has a cloud hanging over his head, deserved or not.

  236. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 11:20 am

    patrick do the math. the trade deadline is july 31st. players get paid over 6 months. that means 1/3 or his $22M contract or $7.33M would be his approx 2 month salary and the yanks would not have to pay more than 1/2 that. the yanks would have to pay the $5M buyout, but they will pay that anyway.

  237. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 11:23 am

    Y’s guy,

    My friend, you are sorely lacking in reading comprehension.

    From the beginning I’ve said that the only reliever I would (and the Yankees would) trade Matsui for is a shutdown closer like those I mentioned. The point I’ve been trying to make is that no team would take Matsui for that type of player and the Yankees would not trade Matsui for anything less (if we are only considering relievers). Therefore MATSUI WILL NOT BE TRADED FOR A RELIEVER. Further, the Yankees do not need a closer so this argument is completely pointless.

    Y’s guy you seem to be incapable of following simple logic and your baseball knowledge is extremely lacking. There is no point to arguing with you any further. Think whatever you want but I will guarantee that neither Matsui nor Giambi will be traded for a relief pitcher.

  238. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 11:33 am

    24 million for a decent relief pitcher or a banged up ex-roider who cant field

  239. Blargh March 21st, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Draw up a list of teams with good relievers willing to trade one for Giambi or Matsui

    Also, I believe that monsieur anti-mussina has yet to tell us how our crow will be prepared and served. I’d like to know ahead of time the meal that I may be having ;)

  240. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 11:40 am

    Ok Blargh heres my list:

  241. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 11:58 am

    so you’ve got the yankees loaded in the bp, no need to make any moves there with mo in mind 90′s form and all those young arms that are going to lock down the bullpen this year eh?

    once again you are dismissing any possibility of trading matsui for any long term bp help, which is fine, cause in your world, the BP is fine.

    i live in a different worldm where when you have too much of one commodity (of/LH hitters) and are lacking in another (BP) you dont dismiss any possibility of trading your surplus to fix your shortage.

  242. hmmm March 21st, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    “i really dislike anti-mussina’s attitude most of the time, but anybody who didnt think that ped’s might have affected ensberg is hiding his head in the sand”

    based on what?

  243. Blargh March 21st, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Y’s Guy, his point is that even if you would trade surplus to fix a shortage, you still need to find a willing trade partner in the first place. Moreover, there doesn’t look to be any suitable and willing trade partner for this scenario anyway.

  244. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    blargh, where did it say that any trade involving either had to be straight-up.

    also, at this point in the season its is impossible to work out who will be on the fringes or contention. consider that the yankees may not be in contention and may be looking to trade a hitter with one year left for a young potential closer.

    a good gm cant just anticipate that nobody has anything worth trading matsui for.

  245. hmmm March 21st, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    ” live in a different worldm where when you have too much of one commodity (of/LH hitters) and are lacking in another (BP) you dont dismiss any possibility of trading your surplus to fix your shortage.”

    i live in the world where the yankees don’t actually have a shortage of relievers.

  246. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    hmmm very confident of both you and patrick, but as for me, until someone actually shows up and can pitch the 8th inning, i keep looking.

  247. hmmm March 21st, 2008 at 12:11 pm

    “hmmm very confident of both you and patrick, but as for me, until someone actually shows up and can pitch the 8th inning, i keep looking.”

    well sure, if the Yankees get to mid-season and no has emerged, then yes, they may have to make a trade.

    but right now, the bullpen seems like it will be ok.

    no one knows. but your opinion that the Yankees will definitely need to trade for a reliever is no more or less valid than my opinion that they won’t.

  248. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Y’s guy,

    1. Name a few young potential closers the Yankees could get for Matsui.

    2. We have a shortage of quality BP arms in the present but you say we need a closer of the future. I say we have several prospects in our system already that can fill that role down the line.

    Trading Matsui for a guy that can be our closer tomorrow is near impossible because nobody would want Matsui for so much and packaging Matsui with more players for just a closer is too much for the Yankees to pay.

    On the other hand if you want to trade for a relief prospect that can be our closer next year and on, I’d say that is pointless. Our relief prospects are superior to any prospects we could trade for and they will be ready at the end of this season.

    I could see Matsui getting traded but I don’t see it happening for a reliever.

  249. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    And just to make it clear, I’m not saying the Yankees don’t need another reliever. It is very possible they might. All I’m saying is that Matsui shouldn’t be wasted on a reliever.

    If in July the Yankees need a reliever I’d be all for trading a package of prospects to get one, if its a fair price.

  250. V March 21st, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    “i really dislike anti-mussina’s attitude most of the time, but anybody who didnt think that ped’s might have affected ensberg is hiding his head in the sand.”

    There’s a considerable difference between saying he could have used PEDs and that his previous production was caused by PEDs and he will never attain that without PEDs.

    I thought his production dropped off because he got hurt and he never regained his pre-injury swing.

  251. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 12:35 pm

    “Our relief prospects are superior to any prospects we could trade for and they will be ready at the end of this season.”

    apparently although the yanks cant fill thier bp now, they have cornered the market on potential bp help.

    consider what the dodgers would have taken in a trade for eric gagne in 2001. certainly less than a matsui. but several ppl in the organization felt that he had closer stuff.
    he saved 150+ games in the next 3 seasons.

  252. anti-mussina March 21st, 2008 at 12:37 pm

    too bad he will never be able to swing that quick or powerful again without the use of roids. if he tries i bet he will injure his shoulder again.

  253. Y's Guy March 21st, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    “If in July the Yankees need a reliever I’d be all for trading a package of prospects to get one, if its a fair price.”

    exactly the point i initially made.

  254. Patrick (#1) March 21st, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    “consider what the dodgers would have taken in a trade for eric gagne in 2001. certainly less than a matsui. but several ppl in the organization felt that he had closer stuff.
    he saved 150+ games in the next 3 seasons.”

    Well if you could pick the next Eric Gagne then the Yankees should hire you. Also, not that I want to sound like anti-mussina, but in this case Gagne actually did do steroids.

    “apparently although the yanks cant fill thier bp now, they have cornered the market on potential bp help. ”

    Pretty much, yeah.

    “by midseason, if nobody else has stepped up, i could see them moving giambi or matsui for a big pierce that allows joba to move to the rotation.”

    That was your original point, nothing about a package of prospects.

    Bottom line Y’s guy, I think you underestimate the yankees pitching depth and overestimate the value of relievers.

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