Today in The Journal News
-
- April
- 3
Mike Mussina wasn’t bad but he wasn’t nearly as good as A.J. Burnett and the Yankees were beaten by the Blue Jays. Brian Heyman has the story.
Jorge Posada is out with a stiff shoulder. This notebook also has some Toronto thoughts on Joba, a Blue Jay with the flu and an ill-timed call for Morgan Ensberg.
I’m taking a few days off, but the blog will roll on with lineups and whatever news we’re told of. The plans to open some mail (I have seven weeks worth), go see Shine A Light (the new Scorsese flick about the Stones) and just relax a little. The Yankees will be on the road for 18 of 20 games starting Tuesday.
Meanwhile, yes, I’m posting this at 3:15 a.m. Just can’t sleep for assorted reasons.
This entry was posted
on Thursday, April 3rd, 2008 at 3:15 am by Peter Abraham.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Share and Enjoy: 
| 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Get some sleep Pete! Thanks for the info and have a nice break from the blog.
Have a great night Pete. I live out of the U.S.A. so I always check your blog also at these times. Do you know how bad is Posada’s back doing? Have a great night. Hope this gets through.
I’m up too Pete, of course its 6:20 at night here and not 3 in the morning. Get some sleep!!
Any word on whether Joe had given in and let the ice cream and candy back in the clubhouse?
Pete, those of us on the night shift welcome the late posts.
“Moose” is finished.
Dear M&M Apologists,
I hate to use the word “homer” but you’re all deeply misguided if you actually believe Mike Mussina is going to improve on his 07 season-which need I remind you was his worst on record.
How I ask, do those of who actually believe that this was some sort of “good sign”/”nice effort” “cold but his velocity will show up when it’s not frozen tundra winter baseball” blah blah blah
How do you reconcile the fact that the man is one year older and threw not ONE TIME over 88 MILES PER HOUR IN ALL OF HIS 08 FLORIDA SPRING TRAINING STARTS??
“Moose” is finished.
News for all of you…
HE WILL NEVER TOUCH 90 OR EVEN THE HIGH 80S AGAIN
No it’s not AS important to some pitchers…Maddux comes to mind, BUT!!!
And before you go all “Greg Maddux” on me…ie “Doesn’t matter what the gun sais if you can pitch to the corners and change speeds blah blah”
And as you all know…
1. MIKE MUSSINA PITCHES IN A FAR SUPERIOR DIVISION AND LEAGUE.
2. MADDUX CAN GET AWAY WITH HIS LOSS OF VELOCITY IN THAT HE NEVER RELIED ON IT ANYWAY.
Oh forget it…
Some of you are beyond reason and want to cherry pick till your fingers are as red as the deficeit between last nights game score so i’ll not waste anymore time…
I’m with you guys!!!
Moose was great tonight!!!
Oh I hope I hope we can get some warmer weather…
FINGERS CROSSED.
Let us know what you think of the Stones flick, Pete. The soundtrack is pretty hot!
I always felt that Moose was Torre’s fault. He said in some interview that he let Mosse pitch out of his holes, and it seemed like that became his style. Fall in and pitch out. But he’s not pitching out so well anymore. He should have been pulled out more often, perhaps he would have improved…. Prolly not.
Pedroia = Bald Midget ;
Mussina will win 10 games this year which is all the team needs from him. Your support might help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD_bqXMO5aY
One thing needs to be addressed and I hope its addressed quickly.
The game threads.
They have become a joke.
Its just filled with trolls and morons and its already become unreadable and impossible to hold intelligent discussions in them.
I don’t know what the solution is short of not having any game threads.
Its pretty tough for Pete, who has to write, to track all of these folks. Perhaps registration or outing their IP addresses would make it easier to track these folks and get rid of them. I don’t know.
I do know though that if it keeps up, you will lose most of the good posters and contributors to the game threads and perhaps the entire blog by May 1.
Hopefully, there is some way to rid the blog of these idiots and we can get back to having the kind of dialogue that has made the blog popular.
I’m all for free speech. This is not a free speech issue. Its a “dealing with the morons” issue. I hope it can be addressed quickly in a way that will get the blog back to its great roots.
SJ44….a thought…just ignore them. It is easy to pick out the idiots, just have all of us ignore them. We can talk to each other and post ourselves until Peter either does or doesn’t do something about them. I know that you are a very smart person and can tell when one of the infants is trying to get a rise out of everyone. That being said, I truly hope that very soon, Moose gets put into the 5 spot and is skipped as much as possible. Then, hopefully, we can trade Hawkins for a good setup man to take Joba’s spot and put Joba as our #3 starter. ( OK…now everybody “attack” !!! )
SJ44 -
I’m with you, 100%. Last season I did not look at game threads, but the next morning, it seemed always seemed like a lot of people had a lot of fun doing so, so I decided to try it. It’s very discouraging, to say the least, and ruins the enjoyment of not only the blog, but the game and, for lack of better words, “Yankee fan-dom” in general.
I don’t know if registration would make a difference, but it surely couldn’t hurt. What would also help is a little restraint on the part of those of us who are less prone to hyperbole by ignoring the “trolls” and the excessively negative posts. Every game is not going to be pleasing; certainly it was frustrating last night to see how Burnett controlled the Yankee lineup. And it would be ridiculous to expect all the comments to be glowing, and, no offense, Rebecca, but even optimistic. But they can be reasoned and logical. It is not inflammatory to say, “Wow, Burnett’s making the Yankees look foolish tonight.” It’s entirely different to extend that to say, “The Yankees s–k, and will never win again.”
Also, it is not trollish to say Burnett pitched well. It is a fact, and does not mean the person posting such a statement is anti-Yankees, or even pessimistic. And people should not be attacked if they choose to compliment a heads-up play (like Rios backing up when Jeter tried to go to 2nd) an opposing player. Anyway, I like to think one can be a Yankee fanatic and still appreciate a good baseball play(er).
Rant over.
oh…and in my scenario…if everyone is healthy,,,Moose can go to the Bullpen…and if someone gets hurt…Moose gets placed back in the 5 spot again….and again, skipped as much as we can…..( OK, hit me again, ALL ! )
Doreen,,,,very nicely controlled rant…..applause for YOU !
Bald Midget
I tend to agree that it’s a huge uphill road for Mussina. I was hoping that he’d gain some velocity on the fastball. Things aren’t looking good in that regard.
The topic of last year’s performance is a fair one. Let’s remember that none other than Joe Torre, who is loyal to veteran players to a fault, removed him from the rotation.
That said, I don’t think we need to slam those who defend him. It’s only Game 2, and everyone is excited and full of hope. Let’s just make our points, agree to disagree, and see what unfolds. This is one topic I wouldn’t mind being wrong about.
Guess what?
Mussina can not pitch at a major league level anymore. If the Yankees need another sentimental icon, besides the last year of the Stadium, then keep him in the rotation. But they have no hope of the playoffs if they concede 20% of their games before the first pitch.
88 isn’t high 80’s. News to me.
I guess I should be glad I was freezing my butt off at a hockey game instead of reading the gameday thread?
Realistically did anyone think we’d win both games to start the season? I mean we were facing Halladay and Burnett both who tradionally own us!!
Glad to hear from the rational posters that Mike did pretty well, all things considered. Don’t forget it was freezing last night. Mike is a feel pitcher, so it couldn’t have been very easy to locate his pitches.
As many have said if Mike pitches like this, we will be fine. He will not be lined up against their number two starter! He is our #4-5 starter!
vrsce …
Thanks so much for your uplifting Mussina thoughts. Being April 3rd, it can be imagined that the Yankees could possibly lose as much as 60 more games.
I agree wholeheartedly with SJ44 and Doreen. The game thread last night was very bad and I didn’t post.
There wasn’t very much discussion of the game. It was just filled with absurdly negative comments that all said the same things, “Mussina is washed up!” or “This team doesn’t try” etc.
We even had the new round of Joe Girardi doesn’t know what he’s doing as manager start up.
It’s nice to have 1000+ comments but when hundreds of them are just that - people just typing in a litany of complaints then there really is no discussion.
It’s just people talking off the top of their heads wanting other people to read their random, unhappy thoughts.
Again - that’s part of being a fine. Sure. But that’s not the only part of being a fan, especially a baseball fan where you know your team is gong to lose at least 65-70 times in the year.
A.J. Burnett threw 2 games last year. He went 15 innings over those two games and gave up 1 earned run. Last night it was in the 40’s. How many runs did people think the yankees were likely to score.
Comments are fine. But what makes this site interesting is the opportunity to discuss baseball rather than just complain about it.
It was interesting for me to read Pete’s notebook about the reactions of Frank Thomas and Vernon Wells to Joba’s show of emotion the other night. I had heard comments from various “experts” that Joba had angered the Jays, as Melky had angered Halladay for his curtain call (though I think Halladay was more upset with himself for giving up the home run).
To me, Thomas’ and Wells’ comments just show how little we fans know of the players and their culture. We all just looking inside the window. That’s why I find these sidebars of Pete’s to be so interesting.
Jennifer makes an excellent point. Mussina will not be lined up with an opponent’s No. 2 starter once the Yankee rotation is fully aligned.
It will show semblance of order with Andy Pettitte’s scheduled start.
Mussina was a victim of no run support which will change sooner than later.
SJ, I am 100% with you regarding the game threads, there is always someone who makes it hard to read or even try to converse with others.
I stopped posting during game threads last year and have emailed Pete about the situation, but to this date still nothing has been done about it.
However, for some strange reason I still skim over them in the morning…I can’t figure out why though?
Moose’s performance last night projects to better than league average.
If you’re thinking of him as our #2 or #3 starter, that’s trouble. But if the young guns step up as hoped, 175+ innings of 4.76 ERA from Moose will get us to the playoffs.
I think a lot of people are on Moose because he started the second game of the season.. But people forget hes not the #2 starter on the team. We shouldn’t be expecting #2 starter numbers from him.
Right now, hes really the #3, but I think we all really know he should be slated in the #4 slot.
So it wasn’t a great showing by him at all, but if you look at him as a #4 starter it wasn’t terrible..
SJ, Doreen and everyone else - you’re absolutely right. I often read the game threads but rarely post. Last night’s thread was awful. It felt as if it had been taken over by 5th-graders. I’m not sure if registration would help, but I’d sure like an “ignore” function.
“However, for some strange reason I still skim over them in the morning…I can’t figure out why though?”
.
For the same reason that you may watch the show J@ck@$$, because idiots can sometimes be entertaining….
Classic, from newsday
Here’s the sign that Mike Mussina put on his locker for all to see:
1-year contract: $1.75 million
White Range Rover: $75,000
$50 cell phone ticket in Harlem: priceless
-Morgan Ensberg
Glad to read the comments from Frank Thomas and Vernon Wells regarding Joba’s fist pump. I thought it could trigger problems, since there’s recent history of animosity between these two teams.
I know that Thomas has been slammed as selfish by former teammates…but this shows otherwise. Wells has always been thought of as a class act, and his comments show that to be the case.
YanksAngel
Lets see…3:15 AM = 6:15PM….hmmmm…carry the one….
Are you in Australia?
I was in class last night and so I watched the game on my TIVO. From reading the other posts, I’m glad I missed the game thread.
I understand the emotions of being wrapped up in the team and following it closely. I also think that being older gives a person perspective and allows you to take a long term view of things. The baseball season is a marathon and not a sprint. I would guess that a lot of these posters that are freaking out with every bobble or bad pitch are youngsters who don’t know any better.
You can try and reason with them, but most likely you will be called names or dismissed. The best thing to do is ignore the pests and hope they get bored and go away. After all they likely have a short attention span anyway.
Joe and John, good points regarding Thomas and Wells. Classy responses on their part.
It’s almost a microcosm of human behavior: Joba (and his dad) spoke respectfully to them. They in turn have a positive interpretation of Joba’s actions, assuming (I think correctly) that there is no disrespect or ill will intended.
I couldn’t sleep last night either. Guess great minds sleep alike
I’m not really sure Pete can do anything about the game threads. But what us non-trolls can do, if we wanted to, is use a non-”game thread” post to post during the game.
Like, for instance, post our comments in the post before the game thread.
The trolls are too stupid to ever notice the difference.
Yeah it was nice to read that they didn’t feel like they were shown up.
Re: Moose’s performance - until the 5th, I didn’t really notice a lot of hard hit balls off him - his fastball had some good late movement that made it hard to get him solidly.
Case in point, his first run allowed. A grounder to first, and an error. A bleeder, and a bloop. What can you do about that?
I thought he looked good, for the most part. He did tire toward the end.
Don Vito,
Its tough to ignore them when they take up 80% of the posts on game night.
The only reason they are here now is because the blog is so popular. It hasn’t become popular because of them so, let’s not have them ruin it. That’s all I am saying.
Take Moose’s night for example.
How is he “done” off last nights performance?
The guy is two pitches away from giving up 2 runs (1 earned) in 6+ innings of work.
The 2-2 pitch to Rios, which was strike 3, he didn’t get. He gets that call, he is out of the inning. He didn’t, he ends up walking Rios, and Wells hits the HR. One call cost him two runs.
The 0-2 pitch with two outs to Hill, a mistake pitch too up in the zone, lead to another run.
Two pitches away from a very good start, in awful weather, against a good team and a hot opposing pitcher.
Not exactly the performance of someone who is “done”.
At this stage of Moose’s career, he is a #4 or #5 pitcher.
If he pitches like he did last night all year, he is going to project above the average for #4 or #5 starters in the AL.
All some of us are asking is folks think a little before losing their minds over Game 2 of a 162 game season.
The Yankees STILL managed to have the tying run at the plate in the 9th inning.
That’s all you can ask for in a game like last night.
For some folks to go off half cocked after last night is a preview of what’s to come this season unless its stopped ASAP.
i heard a song from that soundtrack on the radio this morning and thought it was horrible. made me cringe. didn’t even realize it was the stones.
It’s a shame when posters wishing to make valid points or contributions in an otherwise good board see the need to shy away until hopefully a new thread is started to see some trash posters fade away.
Aside from this board, Peter is far too busy with what he does so well than to play moderator but it’s becoming apparent that one is needed. An edit button would be a help as well. It just may cause some people to think before they post.
I agree with SJ, Doreen and all of our other voices of reason about the posts lately. I am hoping it is an early season phenomenon, like the kids who come to class for two weeks and then drop out. As of right now, I just scan the posts looking for names I recognize. I don’t read more than 20% of them.
I’m not against opinions, I have plenty. But people really should try to offer more than “so-and so is an idiot” or “this guy can’t pitch becasue he doesn’t have a fastball over 90 mph” kind of thing.
The story of the game last night was that Moose pitched serviceably but Burnett outpitched him by a mile. As noted above, it was cold and it was the second game of the season and Moose will not usually match up against anybody’s no. 2.
The Yankees should be very happy with Moose’s work last night, even if they weren’t happy with the final score. The Moose kept his team in the game, which these days is his only job, in addition to eating some innings the youngsters can’t have. He threw inside more than I have ever seen him throw. He challenged hitters in the zone and didn’t nibble as much as usual. He was actually aggressive, just not overpowering.
The Jays have the pieces, especially the pitching, to be a problem this year. But remember the goals: win each series, not each game; Win most of your games at home and split on the road. We’ll take it from there.
Can I just vent real quick about how terrible a Boston office building is to work in the day after a Red Sox win?
Good God this is terrible, where are my head phones?
Good Morning.
I watched your game last and Burnett pitched very well. I watched him carve up the sox lineup last Sept. He does have electric stuff when healthy and locked in. It made me ponder who the best 1-2 in the AL is right now. Taking out the W-L factor and just looking at pure stuff. My top 3 would be the following.
1) Hernandez/Bedard
2) Sabathia/Carmona
3) Halladay/Burnett (when healthy)
Any thoughts on the NL? Or disagree with the top 3?
Have a good day today. -dennis
Good point Don Vito, and greta idea Rebecca.
Regarding Joba, if Frank Thomas doesn’t have a problem with it then I don’t either.
I think we all probably feel that this team, over the last few years, has not had alot of emotion and looked robotic or “business-like/corporate”….IMO this team has needed more energy like this.
Listening to Mike and the Maddog yesterday and they acted or should I say Mike acting like the conscience of New York, saying He Needs to Stop That Now! Why? I bet that he was the first one saying since 2004 that this team has needed some energy, they need to throw inside more/back people off the plate, and now he says this…give me a break.
If healthy, I would go with the Seattle duo.
Can’t say I’m as confident as some of you about Mike, but if he can pitch routinely into the 7th and hold opponents to four runs, I’d say that should be enough to chalk up wins.
I’m also not much of a game thread reader anymore, though to be fair that’s probably as much because I’m busy getting ready to work, getting to the office and getting down to work when the game is on (most of the time). Breakfast is for wimps, but I have Coffee With Matsui pretty regularly.
Dennis–I think you’ve got the right top three, but in the wrong order. I’d go Sabathia/Carmona, Halladay/Burnett and then Hernandez/Bedard (though my fantasy team might disagree!)
the NL is a lot more challenging, but I think Peavy/Young has to be up there, and probably Webb/Haren too. Can’t see it in any team in the east or central.
By the way, guys, you know the NATIONALS are 3-0? Weird
Anyway I’ve got to get ready, have a presentation for my law class. Wish me luck =D
And like I said above, if the game thread is too much, let’s post in a different one. The trolls will never know the difference.
Mike Francesca - jeez, if he was whining about Joba, he’s really out of touch. Joba can set off fireworks, set his glove on fire, and simultaneously dance to “Superfreak” after closing out an inning, and no Yankee fan will care.
Right now you have to got with Sabbathia and Carmona as the top 1-2 because of their track records and Carmona’s upside.
Over the past two years Sabbathia has established himself as an elite arm. Carmona was not only lights out last year but has room to grow - that was only his first season. He has truly fantastic stuff. Just dominant ability and he’s only going to get better.
The Seattle duo has a ton of talent. If Felix Hernandez wound up being the best pitcher in the AL this year it wouldn’t be all that surprising. But he still has a lot to prove. Same thing with Bedard - last year was his first truly dominant year - and he got shut down before the season started. He’s also a very introverted person. Let’s see how he handles being the #1 starter for a team that’s a contender and feels that he is the piece to put them over the top.
Burnett is just too inconsistent. His health is the primary issue. But he’s also mentally inconsistent - on nights like last night he was just lights out. On others he just doesn’t have it. He’s never shown himself to be an elite level arm.
The caveat on Burnett is that opt out he has in his contract. I think he’s going to have a big year. He’s making $11 million or so and has been vocal about being underpaid. Carlos Silva is making $12 million/ per on his new deal. If Burnett can hit the market coming off a big year and do so one year younger than he would if he doesn’t exercise the opt out he’s going to make much more money.
I could see the mets throwing a ton of money at him, for instance.
Guys, ignore M&M - they’ll just raise your blood pressure, and won’t add anything to your baseball knowledge.
In case anyone hasn’t noticed, Phil starts tonight. That’s something to be excited about. Let this season be a healthy one for him, and I really think he’ll be a strong ROY candidate, along with Joba.
Rebecca - what are you doing up this early?
Phil has too many innings to qualify for rookie of the year. So we have to root for either Joba or Ian.
There once was a pitcher named Moose,
Who could kick any team’s caboose,
But his fastball went flat,
Teams raced to the bat,
He ain’t no pitcher no more.
regarding melkey’s curtain call….
Isn’t that kinda fan generated?
I mean 55K people calling for one kinda makes it mandatory right?
One of the neat things about this blog is it gives fans like me a chance to see how the real deal comes down. I’ve never been to Yankee Stadium and hang on every comment that gives me a glimpse of the magic that is there.
How can Halladay bitch about something the fans demand?
Just how does a curtain call work?
CB - I agree, I think AJ Burnett is going to have a real good year, because of the opt-out clause. JP Ricciardi will have mixed feelings, because last year he essentially accused Burnett of dogging it, and if Burnett goes all year long, he’ll feel a)justified in his criticism, and b)angered, because he let him have the clause in his contract, and now will be faced with either giving more $$$ for a new contract, or losing him.
And, yes, the Omar and the Mets will salivate over him, because they have no other options for starting pitching in that organization. The Mets’ problem with that business model, as we Yankee fans have seen, is that when it doesn’t work, it becomes an expensive failure.
Re Game threads:
Pretty much stopped posting in them last year when it was obvious it was just a place for whinners to post instant access this person stinks, this person should be fired.
The reason we still read them though is for the handful of excellent posts that happen during the game
Nothing can really be done an edit or registration wont help as people who want to post idiocy will continue to do so HOWEVER something that WILL help is if people just dont respnd to the idiocy. Many times people post things just to egg you on or to get a response so if you IGNORE it and dont respond they will not copntinue to post.
Sort of like JOse Canseco the reason he keeps writing these books (other than the money of course) is so he can continue to get his 15 minutes of fame, get on all of these national TV shows, be on the front and back pages of newspapers etc. He comes out every few years writes what he writes and gets tons of coverage and attention which is what he wants. If no one actualy paid attention to him he would just go away.
I agree with noMaas’ estimation - if Toronto stays healthy and their young pitchers pan out, they have the best rotation in the AL. They also have a good lineup so they should be a competitive team. Somewhere down the line though I expect Burnett to get hurt and they will fall apart again.
I wouldn’t look too much into this series against them - the Yankees get hot around summer time and right now, as is obvious, their rotation is out of whack. Lets see how Hughes and Kennedy pan out. The Yankees will score some runs soon… they play Tampa Bay, KC, Baltimore, and the White Sox this month. Mussina won’t need to be perfect and he will be slotted against #4-5 guys on already-crappy rotations.
We’ll be fine.
I agree with SJ too.
Game threads have turned manic.
It seems Peter doesn’t want to do registration, maybe because having high page view and comment totals is good for the paper. Or maybe it’s just a hassle to implement. Another option might be to post in a double-secret place, like the post BEFORE the one with the lineups. I’m not sure if the trolls would be smart enough to figure that one out.
Here’s my rule: Don’t feed the trolls.
(That’s the nicest way I can say it.)
Yankee fans will be thinking of Meatloaf after tonight’s game. “Two Out Of Three Ain’t Bad” will be the tune of choice.
I’m cool with that Victor! Go Phil!
Game thread trash posters need only to ask themselves if they can put on the cleats and uniform and do better.
I agree with all of you about the game threads. If we ignore the trolls they’ll go away. They want the attention and if we don’t give it to them they’ll leave.
Saw this quote by Joe Girardi in the article Pete posted. Girardi shows his emotions during the game like we do.
“Losing stinks,” Girardi said. “That’s the bottom line.” I also noticed on tv last night his face in the dugout after the Wells homerun - kind of a look of disgust. Even in his postgame interview he was kind of down and ticked off.
I’ve only posted ,at best, three times since this blog has gone from a few post to hundreds of post per day. What I’ve learned in regards to trolls is that you can never reason with them. Their reason for living seems to be to take enjoyment from angering others. Best response is not to respond. Oh, and I’m always prepared for the onslaught if the sux win and the Yankees loose. Being someone who tries to see others perspectives, I will try to give the trolls some latitude as winning is a new occurence to them.It takes at least 26 championships to produce class.
Tonight’s game will be very difficult. McGowan has terrific stuff.
And he gave the Yankees fits last year. They did not do very much with him at all last season.
McGowan is under the weather so maybe he misses the start or doesn’t pitch well.
But if he’s ok it’s going to be a very tough game.
I didnt think Pussina was that bad last night…however…..he needs to start putting hitters away when he gets them 0-2, 1-2. He wasnt able to last night just like he wasnt able to last season…which led to an ERA over 5. He is afraid to pitch inside(always has been, even when he was a great pitcher..hence the nickname Pussina). He’ll get a hitter to 0-2 and then try and nibble like Al Leiter used to. If Puss isnt able to throw inside with success and continues to give up 0-2 hits because of it, then he shouldnt be part of the rotation. its that simple. Im not saying he should be pulled out right now, but I wouldnt let him go more than 6 starts if this continues…and this is EXACTLY how he pitched last season.
I really wish there was an ignore button here.
John in Ohio
Yes, Melbourne Australia, and it is now my bedtime, actually well past it. 1:45 in the morning
I do find it funny though that when I check the boards at night time here that there are still new posts consistently either from Pete or loyal posters. Makes baseball not seem like a world away for me, even though it actually is.
Goodnight!
Mussina can only be effective when he gets an umpire with a generous strike zone & he does not have to put the ball over the plate where it becomes batting practice.
Still worried about how to safely get the ball in the hands of Joba & Mo. Certainly Hawkins failed his first test, & that area was our achilles heel last year & IMO we did little to fix.
I’m thrilled that Joba is in the Pen, but we more help for 6th & 7th.
Ken,
I understand what youre saying, but Pussina still has good enough stuff to have success, he just has to try different things. I dont know him personally, but he seems like he could be a stubborn guy (Im not sayign he is, it just seems like he might be)and I dont know if he woudl be willing to make some changes….after all, he is the ultimate “creature of habit”.
Case and point above post. He made good points, but needed to act like a child calling Mussina names.
Doesn’t take more than two games to see how things will shape up. I mean it was 40 some-odd degrees last night, I’m sure the baseballs were slick…and by the way it was only the second game of the year.
Let’s see all of the guys pitch out of the pen before anyone is awarded specific roles, with the exception of Joba and Mo, which will most likely only pitch in tied or winning ball games.
Hugh:
With all due respect I don’t think we saw the same game.
I saw Mussina pitch inside a lot last night on right handers and he was in the strike zone a lot too. But you can’t throw everything in the zone or it gets hit. Overall, there were very few hard hit balls and I think Moose had two BB, which is good, considering that the home plate umpire was all over the place. Moose is a feel pitcher and it was cold so it was harder to throw his breaking stuff for strikes consistently. Burnett, being more of a fastball-changeup guy, wasn’t as affected.
Moose cannot overpower anybody anymore, that’s been true for some time. But if he pitches like he did last night he performs his role on this team.
Finally, your screen name really doesn’t add much credibility to your arguments. Neither does calling Mussina “pussina.” But hey, it’s a free country.
I’m a frequent reader of the blog - go to it maybe 25 times a day. It’s my #1 stop when I get on the computer, along with email. I must say that I favor registration. It would be a nuisance to register but it would be a one time thing. Once registered, we could keep the blog comments in good quality. I stopped posting in comments because it became too frustrating to read some of the idiocy.
Registration is the way to go.
The Blue Jays are clueless. Just look at how dominant AJ Burnett was last night.
What are the Jays doing leaving Burnett in the starting rotation!
Doesn’t everyone know that if you have a guy with shut down stuff you should use him as the 8th inning set up guy?
Isn’t that just obvious?
I mean, why would you want a guy who sits in the mid-90’s deep into games and throws four pitches in your starting rotation when you can throw him one inning at a time setting up the closer?
If the Jays put Burnett into the set up role they could make the game into a seven inning game. Burnett - Accardo - game over.
When Ryan comes back they could turn it into a 6 inning game! Burnett as the set up man to the set up man pitches the seventh, Accardo as the 8th inning set up guy and thenBJ Ryan to close.
They are just wasting Burnett by letting him start every fifth day. Just wasting him.
cb You made some great points! You must be listening to Mike and the Mad Dog.
Burnett is the perfect expample of why Joba belongs in the starting rotation next year! And why he will be there the end of the season.
I did not make the name Pussina up, he’s been called that ever since his days in Baltimore becuase he never wants to pitch inside/take his teammates backs/avoids confrontation ect. He has been called a bad teammate by many players, Im not pulling this out of my a$$.
SG44 - I would like to talk to you.
Is there some way I can get in touch?
McGowan started well then got worse against the Yankees last year; first he went 7.3 IP and 2 ER (May 28), then 7 IP and 2 ER (July 29), then 5 IP and 4 ER (Sep 12), and finally 4.3 IP and 6 ER (Sep 23)
What’s his story? I see that his career has consisted of 45.3 IP, then 27.3 IP, and then 169.7 IP last year
Side note: Easy to tell the difference, but I still get kind of annoyed that gamelogs use .1, .2 for 1/3 and 2/3 of an inning, while IP for the year uses .3 and .7 respectively, bleh :/
Wow… that’s BAD
SJ44 - I would like to talk to you.
(embarrassed… thought you were a guitar)
Okay looks like we need to take the stance stated earlier.
While I don’t agree with Hugh’s post entirely, I have to admit that watching Mussina last night was eerily similar to last season. He just couldn’t put anyone away with two strikes - nobody was swinging and missing at his fastball.
If he gets his velocity back up into 89-90 range, then he can be good as a #5 starter and inning eater. If not, well, I hope Horne is ready. Righties with 86mph fastballs just don’t survive in this league.
The warm weather can’t come soon enough. (Stoked to watch Hughes tonight)
SJ44, your participation is one of the most valued aspects of this blog.
Any suggested rules of thumb for newer posters to help assure well-meaning participants don’t degrade the experience here or turn off valued longtime posters? Of course, the more concrete the better.
Careful, CB - someone’s going to take you seriously.
(For that matter, think of how Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson were “wasted”….)
Bronx Cheer -
Last night on the post-game, David Cone made the point that if Mussina can continue to mix in those 65 mph pitches, it certainly helps him. He said (and I’ve heard it said before by Buck Martinez on XM) that it’s not necessarily what your top speed is, but the differntial in speeds in your various pitches. You want to keep hitters off-balance. Also, the slower stuff will then have the effect of making your not-so-fast-anymore stuff look faster to the hitter. But, even Moose said he hopes that he’ll add a couple of mph to his fastball; that it’s still early in the season and his arm strength should increase.
McGowan was a very highly regarded pitching prospect…he came up and was used out of the bullpen and spots starts hence the wacky innings totals….he didnt become a starter in the rotation until last season…but thats where he was always intended to go. He is a very, very good pitcher and many think this is his season to break out…he has the best stuff on the Toronto staff and that says alot considering Burnett and Halladay are on it.
Come on Don Vito, get a clue. We’re not going to trade Hawk for an 8th inning guy, not happening. Hawk is here to stay and pitch in the 6th and 7th inning. OMG, he gave up a run in his first 1 1/3, get rid of him!
Also, Mussina will be fine and win 12-14 games.
Why has Mike Francessa taken over CB’s mind and how long will the insanity last?
Hey, CB, I tend to agree with the implication of your comment: Joba belongs in the starting rotation eventually, if not later this year.
My reservation stems from the only conclusion I draw about last night’s game. Neither Hawkins nor Farnsworth are to be trusted in late innings.
The run Hawkins allowed altered the complexion of the 9th inning. With 1st and 2nd and no one out, the Yankees have many more option down two runs than three.
(Farnsworth, meanwhile, throwing 92mph, was fortunate to make out of the 8th inning without letting up a run. Both hits against him were hard hit balls and his fastball lacked the plus velocity it needs to compensate for its dead straight trajectory.)
When the Yankees face a pitcher as dominating as Burnett was last night, their bullpen cannot yield late innings add-on runs if the Yankees expect to win.
Maybe, Ohlendorf or one of the kids in Scranton can assume Joba’s role once they move him to the rotation. But right now, OPening Day’s prescription for the 8th and 9th innings is precisely what the Yankees need to compensate for starters who are either too young or too old to dominate deep into games.
i agree with SJ44, between the book clubs, the politics, the childness on the game threads and the Trolls it has slowly gone down hill. Pete has been a great host and a very informative at that, but it looks like time to find a more sensible blog.
Throw Rich Harden in there with Burnett. Those guys are always hurt but yet their teams keep them as starters and wouldn’t dare put them in the bull-pen.
By the way, if Toronto’s bullpen stays healthy and pitches this well throughout the season, behind Halliday-Burnett-McGowan, I can’t see them not winning the AL East.
CB -
Funny, funny stuff!
Rebecca - posting in another thread isn’t a bad idea, but we really don’t want them to know which one, do we? So, how to get it across surreptitiously??? And good luck with your presentation!
I though Hawkins did a decent job last night. Better than decent. He threw 14 of 16 pitches for strikes. My mind can’t seem to recreate how he allowed the run, but I do remember that he had a really tough at bat with someone before surrendering the hit.
Also, I think 2 of Torontos runs don’t score last night if Abreu makes better throws. He is usually alot more accurate than he was on those two plays last night.
Kill-Schill - I thought Mark Melancon was the heir-apparent to Joba for 8th inning guy.
“McGowan started well then got worse against the Yankees last year;… What’s his story?”
In a nut shell the blue jays seriously overworked McGowan last year and he tired a great deal down the stretch. He simply was not the same pitcher at the end of the season as he was in the beginning.
McGowan threw around 80 innings more last year than he did the season before. That is ridiculous and the jays have put him at serious risk for blowing out his arm.
The Jays have not done a good job with workloads on their young pitchers. Casey Janssen for example. His career may be over.
JP Ricciardi seems like he’s tired of coming in third and has been pushing his young pitchers too hard so that he doesn’t have to sign guys like Burnett and Ryan who have been big money disappointments (due to injuries) that Ricciardi has been criticized for.
So that’s why you have to completely throw the games McGowan threw towards the end of his season out the window. Those last two start against the yankees in September are two of them.
He was dominant against the yankees when he wasn’t fatigued. And even counting those games he threw tired his overall numbers against the yankees were terrific. They only hit .205 off him last year.
This will be a tough game tonight.
I thought Farnsworth was mixing in a two-seamer last night, hence the lower velocity readings. The ground ball he got to get out of the inning definitely came off a pitch with pretty good movement. If he can mix a lower velocity moving fastball in with his 98+ dead straight heater, he could be very effective.
Maybe Pete can ask Farnsy about 2/4 seamers?
How about it we start a petition to Lohud telling them we demand that they upgrade the site and give Pete the technical support he needs to maintain a quality site?
Let’s hope so, Joe. But don’t forget: Brian Taylor was once New York baseball’s heir apparent to Dwight Gooden.
The best laid plans of mice and men….
Doreen -
Great point about Abreu’s throws up the line. At least one of those runs would have been cut down easily by Melky, Sheff or any number of big time arms.
I thought Abreu was pretty accurate last year but I don’t know what happened last night. He needed to make a play - especially when other aspects of his defense (i.e. fear of walls) are suspect.
I’m hoping Mcgowan is too sick to pitch and the Yankees face Marcum instead. Then again, last year, the Jays replaced McGowan with Litsch in a late season start and he shut them out, so who knows: like stupidity incarnate, James Dolan warned, be careful what you wish for.
longtime -
In all fairness, I think the book clubs and other off-topic discussions generally happen only on slow Yankee news days, or slow baseball news days. And if one doesn’t fancy those discussions, they’re pretty easy to avoid.
The game threads just seem to deteriorate into gibberish of two origins: if the Yankees are winning, it’s generally trolls; if the Yankees are losing, it’s mainly disgruntled fans with a smattering of trolls.
“The run Hawkins allowed altered the complexion of the 9th inning. With 1st and 2nd and no one out, the Yankees have many more option down two runs than three.”
Like what? The Yankees had 1st and 2nd nobody out and AROD at the plate. What was he going to do bunt if they were down 2 runs? Or Giambi for that matter? The Yankees had the perfect situation and didn’t capitalize.
Kill Schill,
I got to say - I watch starts like the one A.J. Burnett put up last night (just like the two against the yankees he put up last year) and honestly can’t even remember when a yankee starting pitcher could put up a game like that on an opponent.
I think Wang is terrific. But he’s not that kind of shut down pitcher (he’s a more valuable pitcher overall than burnett because of health and consistency but at their peak performance burnett’s as good as anyone).
Honestly, last night you saw Burnett throw that first inning and by the time it was over you just knew that the probability of the yankees winning was small. Not impossible but not likely.
The goal of the yankees is to win the world series. To do that you need guys who can put up dominant performances like that.
I can’t wait until joba gets out of the pen and starts giving them starts like the one burnett did last night.
Joba has better stuff than Burnett. 5 game playoff series - i want joba throwing one if not two of those games. I’ll take my chances.
Am I the only one that has a problem with Giambi batting behind A-Rod?
I’ve got to run out and do some errands this morning - leaving on big trip to Italy tomorrow - But I have to tell everyone who’s been posting here this AM - if we could somehow magically keep the standard as it has been this morning - and limit the game and post-game drivel from the trolls and such - this blog would be even better than it is now. It does seem to get out of control from time to time. The level of discourse, from Pete and respondents, that is usually the rule here is why I have become addicted to this site in the first place.
I completely disagree on the criticism of Hawkins. He looked very good last night.
The key thing for him is staying down in the zone. He did that and also showed excellent velocity - sitting at 92-94. And he pounded the zone.
Barajas ball was not well hit - that’s going to happen with sinker ball pitchers. Its the kind of hit Wang also gives up. Nothing you can do about it.
And then Alex Rios is just a terrific, all start caliber player. He beat Hawkins - didn’t smoke the ball but got a single. Again, it happens.
Let’s just wait and see with the pen. I have no confidence in Farnsworth. But Ohlendorf threw well last night.
This is not going to be the final pen. I think Alan Horne is going to have a very good year in AAA and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him come up in the not so distant future.
CB-
Agree 100%. That is why Joba has to be given a full shot at starting.
“Honestly, last night you saw Burnett throw that first inning and by the time it was over you just knew that the probability of the yankees winning was small. Not impossible but not likely.”
Agreed. It looked like a low pitch count night fro Burnett out of the gate, with the Yankees off balance, timing fastball but fearing change up or curve. A-Rod hit a mistake a long way after looking silly in his first at bat.
That’s baseball. Giving up even to two runs when the other starter is throwing that well often spells a loss.
I did post when the Yanks were down 1-0 last night. I will withhold posts after a Sox win or if the Yanks are losing or have lost. I truly come here for baseball dialogue and PA’s insight. I do not want to be considered a troll as my heading states “sox fan”. I do that to make sure there is full disclosure.
CB: Great post with excellent points in response to my post on the best 1-2’s in the AL.
I am assuming Burnett has Boras as his agent since he has the “Arod-JD Drew” opt out clause.
Respectfully- dennis
I agree with you CB about Joba. I don’t think the Yankees had an alternative this year because his innings cap is so low.
At a 150 innings and 6 innings a start Joba, the Yankees would have to shut him down in August or early September, like the Sux did last year with Buchholz.
Under the current plan, the Yankees can slide Joba into the rotation just as Mussina hits his August swoon.
The great drawback is that for the month the Yankees extend Joba at AAA from reliever to starter, they don’t have him in either the bullpen or the rotation. If they’re smart, they’ll begin his extension over the All-Star break to cut down the time he’s gone.
No believe it or not, Burnett has another agent. But Boras may have represented him and negotiated Burnett’s opt-out back when he signed.
Dennis,
I appreciated your question. A number of Sox fans come here and claim to be interested in talking baseball - but then the subtext of the points they raise and questions they ask are all nonsense criticisms of the yankees dressed up as mature discussion.
If you want to talk about baseball in general - your welcome. Its a great sport and its worth talking about as a whole rather than only focusing in on the team one roots for.
And your point about not posting after a Sox win or a Yanks loss is a welcome one. Again, its not even that you shouldn’t or can’t do it - but please just don’t do it in an antagonizing fashion as so many people do. Many of those posts are just random people gloating.
Stick to talking baseball and you’ll get good responses to your points.
i did not participate in the game thread last night and i make a habit of not feeding the trolls, but sometimes it IS nice to be able to make these little one sentence comments back and forthwith the people you normally chat with here during a game. whether the comment be positive or negative about the team. isn’t this supposed to be a forum for fans?
must everything be some high level of discourse or a long treatise of baseball analysis during a game? some time you just wanna blurt something out to a pal over a play that just happened and if you’re at home alone instead of watching with a friend this place should welcome that.
does this make any sense to some of you other regulars?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051206&content_id=1277144&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp
Burnett’s agent for the deal was Darek Braunecker according to that article
I also think Hawkins did well.
First game in a Yankee uniform in Yankee stadium? I’d say he handled it pretty well.
CB: I do not antagonize and try not to be negative on the Sox or the Yanks. I however will stick to not posting after a sox win or Yanks loss (or losing)…(I will finally have my own “dennis rules”
We actually have quite a few Yankee fans that jump on Sox boards to antagonize and I always shake my head as their lives must be miserable to enjoy pissing other people off. I do the same when I see Sox fans do that here.
Baseball is a great game. I have been a Sox for 13 years and will be flying up for my 13th Opening day in a row. We have the best rivalry in sports and some some of the most well read baseball fans on both sides. It is amazing to me that 95% of our fans can get along and have a beer and discuss baseball yet something changes when you can hide behind a computer screen.
Good luck to Hughes this eve. I am eager to see him pitch. He is a tough kid not to like.
-dennis
This Yankees team has the legit chance to be a powerhouse come the 2nd half of the season to think once Joba slots into the rotation the key guy in making this work is Philip Hughes if Hughes and Joba become dominant options the slot of SP change to
Wang - Pettitte - Hughes - Joba - (Kennedy, Horne, Marquez)
The BP slots (Cox,Sanchez,McCutchen,Patterson)
this is mostly the reason I’m not worried.
Tucson - Hawkins wasn’t that bad. He was throwing strikes, which is more than we could say for the billion other Yankee relievers I have seen come through.
Ohlendorf looked impressive and if he can develop himself a little more Joba will go to the rotation and Mussina will not be an issue.
MikeEff, IMO, that should be what this blog is all about, but it is the idiotic comments like after two games the pen sucks…Moose sucks…so on and so on, that gets tiresome.
Never mind the trolls that say things to be really aggravating and annoying…which is probably what they set out to do.
Blargh-
Thanks. I wonder if disclosure of a written in opt out clause will get more attention when a player signs a new deal? It seems to get buried when a new contract is announced. However after A-Rod opted out-JD Drew- and more than likely Burnett(if he stays healthy) I would think the clause would get more attention.
Actually, I remember thinking mid-way through my senior prom that I had a written in an opt out clause.
Take Care- dennis
yeah, I hear ya Vader.
i actually post at a different blog during games where there only a few of us that actually kinda know one another.
Hugh - Right now Giambi has not gotten a hit and seemingly offers no protection for ARod. However, you have to give a Giambi a chance. We are only 2 games in.
Besides I am not sure that there is another option. Cano is not a good situational hitter and not ready to protect ARod. I like Abreu in the 3 hole. The only option I see is Posada who was the #5 last year and did a nice job.
Who do you see as the #5 hitter?
“Im not worried about Hawkins nearly as much as Im worried about Jason Giambi.”
to tell you the truth it is Damon that I’m a bit worried about. Giambi’s bat looked good late last night so he might be coming on, Alex just missed tieing the game and making the Bronx explode last night, but yeh Damon has me worried.
“How about it we start a petition to Lohud telling them we demand that they upgrade the site and give Pete the technical support he needs to maintain a quality site?”
why dont you start your own blog, and then only invite the “quality” bloggers here to chat, you guys can go talk amongst yourselves and then you dont have to worry about the quality fo the blog? and then the rest of us who dont care dont have to listen to the incessant whining about the “trolls” and the “pessismistic posters”???
i agree Brandon, but i really think that we’re going to fine this first half as well.
Dennis,
I agree with your post. I don’t visit Sox boards but I assumed that there would be yankee fans on their as well just antagonizing people. I don’t support that at all. What’s the point?
I’m also looking forward to seeing Buchholz first start. He has great stuff (that change is devastating). If he stays healthy I’m sure you guys are going to be front and center in that conversation for best 1-2 in the league with him and Beckett.
Brandon, i know we have to give these guys some time before we write them off, but i can’t help wondering if maybe we would be better off with brett as out lead-off guy and LF instead of damon. maybe he will get himself back to some semblance of his old form, but i didn’t see it in ST
“Am I the only one that has a problem with Giambi batting behind A-Rod?”
yup. I don’t really have a problem w/ Giambi to say he doesn’t offer protection is ludicrous, he’s a well known masher in the league and has one of the best pitch by pitch selections in the league. Cano is fine at # 6 he needs to get use to it and it will click as he watches Giambi and Alex being patient & selective from the batters circle.
Many people forget why Joba is in the pen, it isn’t because of what he did at the end of last season. It is becuase if he started the entire year he would be way over his innings limit. Having him start the season as a reliever is a way to controlablly increase his innings. Mike Francessa pretends to be a Yankee fan, and knowledgable baseball fan. Both are jokes.
I remember listening to him cry about why he was starting in st when they were only going to move him to the pen once the season started. He was too stupid to grasp the thought, that if someoone got hurt, you needed him already stretched out to slot right in. The Yankees don’t have the luxury of skipping the 5th starter.
Miguel Cabrera’s been scratched from the line-up today due to a sore quad…
Anyone have inside dope on the following:
1) Do you the Yankees still intend to honor their commitment to transition Joba from reliever to starter this year?
2) If so, how many bullpen innings do they allow Joba to accumulate on his arm beforehand?
3) If the objective is 150 inning for Joba, does one count bullpen inning differently than starter innings? They should. The effect of 100 reliever innings, for a Proctor say, I would surmise, taxes the arm infinitely more than 100 starter innings.
Thoughts, anyone?
Last year at the beginning of the season people jumped all over Abreu and were convinced he was finished.
Many people on this board were also adamant that Cano had to be sent back down to AAA because he was “dogging it” and hadn’t learned any plate discipline.
People were actually saying that a guy who hit .342 the season before had to be sent back down to AAA in order to basically punish him because he wasn’t hitting.
Don’t jump to any conclusions about Damon or Giambi early in the season (never mind after 8 at bats a piece). Giambi especially - he essentially missed all of last season and it’s going to take him time to get his timing back at the plate.
“i can’t help wondering if maybe we would be better off with brett as out lead-off guy and LF instead of damon.”
I keep thinking the same thing but I remember a convo me and whozat had about this in the discussion we established that Gardner needs to atleast work a .360 clip and spray the ball in the gaps as it is his speed that we need not the power. Also remember Damon is a veteran when all is said a done we need to remember .288/.353/.433 when it is said and done about Johnny.
KS,
Here’s what Hank had to say after the yankee’s first game about joba. Someone on the board pointed this out to me yesterday:
“When it comes to the postseason hopefully they’ll really be ready. Joba will be, of course, a starter by then and hopefully he can be our 22-year-old [Josh] Beckett when he was with the Marlins.”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04022008/sports/yankees/baby_boss_likes_what_he_sees_104576.htm
I thought that was a reassuring quote after all the hub bub that arose with Joba’s first relief appearance.
I’m going to guess he throws around 25-35 innings from the pen and then transition to the rotation. That would give him roughly 15 starts - guess an average of no more than 7 innings per. That puts him roughly at his 140 inning limit.
What I’m not clear on in terms of his innings limit how they’ll factor in potential post season innings. If it looks good they’ll make the playoffs I think they’ll keep him in the pen longer and he’ll make fewer starts - maybe only 12-13?
Pete,
I saw a screening of Shine A Light this past week. It was on an imax screen at lincoln center. Keith Richards was 3 stories tall. The best part was either the whirlwind of feeling like your in a cross-town hurricane between Keith, Ron, Wood or my friend who went with me getting severely nauseous from the rapid cameras.
MikeEFF–
Totally agree with you re posting during the game like I said earlier I have no problem having the intelligent conversation or theone liners back and forth but just ignore the trolls with the one liners this person stinks this person should be traded etc etc.
I am not going to make any determinations about this team 2 games in and anyone who does really needs to relax a bit.
CB,
Hank did say that about Joba on Tuesday, but remember in the off-season Hank insisted that Joba would start the season in the rotation. I like Hank and respect what he has done, but I won’t believe Joba is going into the rotation until I see him there. By the way I hope he does go into the rotation - I think he could be the shut-down ace the Yankees need.
as long as Hank keeps to his word I’m ok w/ it CB, and that quote yesterday was reassuring it’s funny how the mainstream media doesn’t pick up that quote on radio or tv shows and continue to force Joba to be a CL.
How much you want to bet Fatcessa and Fruitloops rip Hawkins & Farnsy today
Gayle,
I agree with you. And if we start going crazy two games into the season, we will never last the next 160 games!
“Hank did say that about Joba on Tuesday, but remember in the off-season Hank insisted that Joba would start the season in the rotation.”
correction Fran Hank said
“The only thing that’s been decided, (the one thing) that we all agree on is that Chamberlain and (Phil) Hughes start out spring training as starters,” The Boss’s son, Hank Steinbrenner, told The Associated Press outside Legends Field late Friday night.
then the DailyNews ran w/ Hank saids Joba will be a starter at the start of 2008,well he didn’t lie that is what happened
Fran,
Hank never said Joba was going to start the season in the rotation. He was always definitive that Joba would be in the rotation at some point in 2008 and made it clear that the organization as a whole was united in their belief that he was a starter and not a reliever long term.
But I agree with you - I’ll be happy to see him actually go into the rotation and then stay there.
This is fun
http://jeterforpresident.com/
dueling no hitters going on in cleveland…
guys, if there is one thing Pete has been loud and clear on, it’s that he DOESN’T care about the quality of the hits he gets here, as long as he gets hits.
he wants traffic, plain and simple.
and to be clear, i am not criticizing him for that. it’s his blog, his call.
but if he cared about the quality of discussion, he’d implement some sort of registration. it’s that simple.
there is no point fighting it, i am just going to stay out of the game threads.
there are enough places (RAB, RLYW, etc) that have game threads that aren’t filled with 50% idiots. i suggest the people go there.
CB, I’ve been meaning to ask you, whether you still disagree with me about Gardner’s long-term future. On the one hand, he distinguished himself in Spring Training since we disagreed. On the other hand, the Yankees won on Tuesday, almost single-handedly, because of Melky Cabrera
Nonetheless, I still contend Gardner would play CF as well as Melky, apart from the arm, and would add more offensively. Even Cashman, quoting John Manuel without attribution, recently called him, “A Juan Pierre who walks.”
Ergo my past conclusion that the Yankees would have lost nothing by including him in the Santana deal. Don’t mean to provoke this argument again, just wondering about people’s estimation of Gardner.
Pete saw the replay of the game this AM.I dont think Michael Kay got your memo on LaTroy Hawkins and the wearing of #21. Perhaps part of the problem that the fans have is that they continued to be egged on by the “TEAMS” main television guy continnuing to harp on the fact that he was wearing O’Neils number and asked Paul about it often.
Gardner has to show that he can keep it up in AAA; he didn’t do so well in the half season he had there last year.
hey guys remember opening day for minor league baseball
Austin Jackson & Jose Tabata’s bid for the Futures game begins today
Carmen Angelini’s & Austin Romine’s debut…etc
check this arod pic : http://www.haciendococote.com/2008/04/alex-rodriguez.html
cleveland is playing a game NOW?
Alex smoking a cuban ..so…….. ?
eh
jevi.
Joba will be in the rotation (most likely as early as this season). But I don’t think Cashman, Girardi, or “yammering Hank” are really sure when that will happen. This season has to play itself out at least to the all star break in my opinion before a definate timeframe is set.
Kill-Schill made an excellent point about the Yankees having to give Joba a month to transition to a starter during the season. That “month” with no joba in bullpen or rotation could mean the difference in getting to the playoffs this year or not. It’s a tough call, but again depending on if the Yanks have a comfortable lead or are behind significantly in the standings (or we fine a suitable replacement that is trustworthy) will determine when Joba will transition this season. He is that valuable. My hope is that guys like Ohlendorf, Hawkins, and maybe Horne can hold down the fort while Joba transitions. It may be imperative to the season.
Brandon I don’t know if Tabata can go to the Future’s game again. He was there in 06. He might not be qualified again. Don’t know what the rules are for that.
I see Jackson and Montero there though.
If Joba were to start the season in the rotation he would have his innings limited anyway so I’m all for him being in the pen for a month or two.
What I am against is the idea that pen should be a reliever fulltime or the heir to Mo.
I want the next Verlander not Papelbon.
oh crap your right
Good morning to all.
What the hell happened last night? Iv been here for a year now and iv never read so many complaints. I can only immagine what the next 60 loses is going to bring out. I for one have been a victum of feeding the trolls. Cant help defending my team when i feel necessary. But im a bit surprised that you all-star bloggers are so down today on all the trolling last night. You should be the ones who should lead by example and not allow them to change your game. That goes to sj,cb,whozat,hmmm and all others who are a step ahead of us in Yankee knowledge.
I do want to talk about negative posting. The regular posters here have formed a pretty tight nit family. But i dont think them or others should be crucified or looked down upon if they dislike a player or how a player played in a game. We’re all fans here and noone is a bigger fan the the other. I for one cant stand Damon. I dont know if its because i know he really wanted to be a red sox or the smiles he gives even when where being blown out. Whatever it is i dont like him. Does that mean everyone shouldnt. Offcoarse not. But i shouldnt have to feel like i cant post that on this board(only board i read and post in). I do expect you to tell me why i shouldnt be thinking like that and im more than happy to listen. At times iv changed my oppinion.
All im trying to say is that theirs ALL-STAR posters and then theirs us. We appreciate you stars posting and letting us in on your knowledge. But please understand that we’re all fanatics and we all think different. As long as we can have civil conversations and laughs ones in a while. Its all good. Thank you for allowing me in your family. Now can we all hug and move on.
Oh one more thing. Rebecca had a very good idea. When the games are one post on a previous thread. For everyone to know your doing it. Use a code word. Like Trolls 2. Meaning get out of this thread and go to 2 back. They will have a hard time figuring it out. Just food for thought.
GO YANKEES!! 27 IN 08.
youre nuts if you think bret gardner would make a better lead off hitter than Johnny. Cobra Kai!
Registration to allow one to post wouldn’t hurt the hits this site gets.
The maajority of those who visit this blog come to read Petes articles and Yankee news- not the comments.
“Registration to allow one to post wouldn’t hurt the hits this site gets.
The maajority [sic] of those who visit this blog come to read Petes articles and Yankee news- not the comments.”
GW is exactly right. Registration would only effect the people who comment - not the total hits because there are hundreds of people who come here for news - not to participate on the boards.
This site does need registration. No doubt about it.
The Moose will be fine. Like sj44 said, he was squeezed on a few calls last night. It’s the beginning of the season for the umps as well. Although, you think they would give Mussina the BOTD at this stage in his career over most anyone..
I think Girardi did a great job of having Mussina’s back last night in his post game comments. He’ll take “quality pitches” every time from MM. In other words, get on the ball umps, he’s throwing quality pitches that you missed. At least that’s what I took from it.
Go Yanks.
SoS27
Gets my All-Star vote
KS,
My thoughts on Gardner haven’t changed that dramatically. I think he still has quite a lot to prove.
His numbers in AAA were terrible (.260 BA/ .343 OBP/ .331 SLG). Worse than Juan Pierre’s were in the majors.
I want to see him hit .300 in AAA with a .380 + OBP before I’m going to believe in him.
He was 23/24 last year. That is very old for AA. Against better competition he struggled. He doesn’t have the tools that make you believe he can jump levels.
His spring training and Arizona league were encouraging.
But overall, Melky’s perfromance as a 21 year old in AAA were better than Gardner’s performance as a 24 year old in AAA.
That’s a tells you a lot about young players.
And even more importantly, Melky’s performance in teh major leagues last year was significantly better than Gardner’s performance in AAA.
And Melky is a year younger.
I think Melky is going to be an above average centerfielder - not great but a very valuable player because decent centerfielder’s are very difficult to find.
I still believe it is a very open question whether Gardner is going to get on base enough to be a starting player.
He’s going to face the same problem all player’s like him do - why walk a guy, why take any chance of that, when the worse that guy can do with the bat is hit a single?
Better pitchers are going to try to know the bat out of his hands - that’s what they did in AAA.
He has to prove that he has the ability to overcome that and get on base.
Until he does that in AAA I still think it’s an entirely open question.
A .343. OBP for a speed guy is awful. He has to prove that was an aberration.
really looking forward to seeing how phil franchise will do tonight. seems like a great kid. hoping for him to succeed. oh and i will estimate that by mid june mussina’s ERA will be well into the 5’s. he is all done…
Here’s something some of you guys aren’t taking into account about Moose last night.
How many hard hit balls did he surrender?
I counted roughly 5 and that includes the home run by Wells. Most of the hits against him were seeing-eye singles and bloopers. They certainly weren’t tearing the cover off the ball. As a pitcher, the only thing you can do is try to keep the hitter from making solid contact. Well, he did that most of the time.
Here’s the thing, if Kennedy or Hughes had the same performance - Yankee fans would be making excuses for them and saying the start wasn’t really that bad. And they would be right.
However, it’s a bit of a double standard with Moose because I think most Yankee fans have had it with him as a result of last season (and his perceived “excuse-making” of the past) and people just don’t want to see him on that mound anymore and are waiting to pile on him.
I’m not trying to make excuses for Moose. But, whether Yankee fans like it or not, the guy has to log innings this season because of the restraint on the kids. That’s just reality. And Girardi isn’t going to abandon his plan for the rotation after one ‘not-so-bad’ start on the second game of the season.
Also, I think Wang and Pettitte need to be split up in the rotation. Those guys are the horses and you don’t want them pitching back-to-back games where the pen isn’t overworked and next three starters (Hughes, Kennedy, and Moose) being somewhat limited on innings and having more of a reliance on the pen. They need an innings-eater slotted between those guys so the pen isn’t overworked three games in a row. The pen would be more effective long term if they got a day of relative rest squeezed in there.
Wow! Never saw so much complainin’ about complaining!
What does registration involve? Nothing more than a user name and e-mail. Basically what we do now, right? Pete supposedly has access to IP addresses anyway, so anyone that’s considered “harmful” or “dangerous” could be dealt with by the proper authorities.
Yes, a troll might think twice if they had to register, but you’d still get some inbreds posting because, well who knows why they do it.
Basically, the Journal News is not going to interfere with anyone’s right to free speech, with registration or without it.
Chance of tonight’s game will be rained out = % ?
guiseppe is right but i don’t care. i still am sick of moose. he farts dust and i can see his liver spots.
Nationals up 5 - 0 on the Phils and Fatcessa and Fruitloops say they will hatch it out w/ Girardi about Joba’s fist pump, he still saids Joba was showing up the opponent… OMG