Let Joba be Joba
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 04, 2008 
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I like listening to Mike and the Mad Dog on WFAN. They’re funny and they’re smart. Compared to the sports talk radio in other cities, especially Boston and Philadelphia, they’re Einstein and Michelangelo.
But they’re hammering this non-existent Joba Chamberlain controversy again today and it’s getting silly.
Yes, the kid pumps his fist when he strikes somebody out. So does Jonathan Pabelbon and a dozen other pitchers. So did Dennis Eckersley. Pete Rose pumped his fist every time he got a single. Some guys are like that. Some guys like Mariano Rivera are not.
Who cares? I was one of the writers in the Toronto clubhouse the other day. Vernon Wells and Frank Thomas said they didn’t care and that’s good enough for me. You won’t find two classier players in baseball.
Manny Ramirez disrespects the game and his opponents when he poses at the plate after hitting the ball. But spinning around and pumping your fist when you strike somebody out is emotion. Frankly, the Yankees could use a little of that. They look like accountants and lawyers out there sometimes.
Chris Russo is talking about Chamberlain like he’s some kind of thug. Try coming into the clubhouse and meeting him sometime before you say that. Joba could stand a little dose of humility and he’ll get it eventually. The game will take care of that, not the media. But I hope he bounces back and pumps his fist again.
In every other sport, even golf, it’s OK to celebrate. But for whatever reason, baseball players are supposed to act like funeral directors.
It’s 2008, let the kids play ball. Tear up the unwritten rules and have some fun. The old guys can watch ESPN Classic if they don’t like it.
Pete, call into their show and set them straight.
Thanks.
Amen, Pete….those guys are clowns !
Mike and the ad dog aren’t smart. They are idiots.
I would love to hear Pete rip into them on air. Let’s start fining everyone that celebrates, no high fives, no smiling, let’s get serious. I don’t want to see any emotion in any professional sport.
I’m afraid the damage has already been done and Joba will never be as exuberant as he once was.
“In every other sport, even golf, it’s OK to celebrate.”
That’s true. Tiger Woods does almost as intense a fist pump after a clutch putt.
I agree that they’re smart guys but i don’t think they’re very good talk show guys because they flip flop so much about their views. watch, a week from now they’ll be talking about how they think it’s good for the game that Joba does that fist pump.
I haven’t been listening. have people at least been calling in to set them straight? not that they would actually listen they would just cut you off and repeat their own opinion. francesa with his whiny tone. russo freaking out.
Pete, it could be worse. You get fined for it in the NFL.
Great post Peter, lets the kids show their emotion, it might rub off well on the older guys.
How do they compare it to Manny? Manny stands there and at times I’ve seen him glare at the pitcher. I don’t see Joba glaring at the hitter after a K.
Those two are clueless.
joba did it last year and there was no problem. people need to chill out and let it go.
Oh and if “Hugh” comes into this topic and posts something about how he is willing to bet his house and family on the fact that we all have problems with Papelbon and K-rod celebrating, I may throw up.
The last topic he became the new Queen of England, congratulations Hugh.
Hey, I don’t like the spin around and double fist pump, but I don’t need you or anybody else telling me to watch ESPN Classic because I don’t like such actions. Sometimes, I think Joba is getting too big for his britches and I find his emotional actions not true and just a way to appease the crowd that goes nuts for Joba.
I want him to tone it down for two reasons.
One being you don’t to fire up the other team anymore than they already are. And two, I don’t him to see him blow his arm out over a stupid routine.
It’s that simple.
pete,
i was wondering, when you do interviews for espn and whatnot, do you need to get permission from your paper first?
Manny is a real idiot. I always think of him waking toward Roger on the mound in the 03 ALCS when the pitch was like high and outside, absolutely nowhere near him. that was one of the only times i ever heard joe buck and tim mccarver defend the Yankees over the Red Sox because they actually knew manny was being ridiculous.
Did I really forgot to write “want” twice.
Grrr.
I’m not sure how smart the level of discourse on their show is. I’m not going to pass judgement on the guys themselves, I have no idea how intelligent they are or not. But, frankly, whenever I listen to them, I feel like they do nothing but parrot conventional baseball wisdom coupled with ill-informed knee-jerk reactions.
Another good post Pete. They keep saying there’s no difference between what him and Manny do, but THERE is.
Anyone else curious about the yanks low attendance the past two games?
Considering the lasting image of Papelbon is him looking like he was trying to take a dump on the mound while celebrating, I’ll take Joba’s antics happily.
What’s funny is if the Yankees were struggling and playing vanilla ball, Mike and the Mad Dog would sit there and bash the “corporate” Yankees who show no fire.
Now we’ve got a kid who has some fire and it’s wrong?
Sometimes we all need to step back and realize that the media has a job to do and what Mike and the Mad Dog are doing is attempting to get people angry and call and fill up the show with debate of any kind.
We’re all pawns in this game.
It’s like I tell my wife who religiously watches The Hills on MTV. None of it’s real. It’s all staged.
I don’t think Mike or the Mad Dog give a fart about what Joba does. They just want to make sure people are listening to them.
Pete, I was just talking to some friends a minute ago saying the same effin’ thing about those two blowhards. They’re not just beating a dead horse, they’re digging it back up and beating it again!!
One thing that’s been annoying me especially is when the Mad Snot Eater mentions Manny and his poses, and basically says, “Well, he’s just a space cadet, always has been, so it’s okay. That’s how he is.” What kind of justification is that?!? Pick a stance and stick to it.
Mike Franseca’s I-know-more-than-you-so-shut-up shtick has only gotten worse too. Thank God for the mute button on my computer keyboard….
Pete…as a fan I dont have a problem with any pitcher doing it, but to say that it doest bother the hitters is just ignorant and naive…and you of all people should know this. They wont ever say it to the media, but Im sure “off the recored” youve heard their true feelings on pitchers who go bananas after blowing hitters away.
Of course Yankee fans will deny that they ever had a problem with Paple or K, but theyre just lying to themsleves or trying to win my house, my cars, my life savings ect.
But overall, I agree, this Joba thing is being blown way out of proportion by the ny media (not you)
That’s why Manny could get away with not being thrown up and in to. If you throw in on him and up he’s going to run to the mound.
Hardly anyone pitches up and in on him.
Agreed Peter.
crawdaddie – chill out. you sound like an angry man. relax a little. have a rum and coke.
I couldn’t agree with you more, Pete!
But, Mike & the Dog got you good… they have brought up a topic that has some legs too it so people call in the show. That’s Talk Radio 101.
Russo does it EVERY Saturday morning. He stirs up Yankees fans with some dumb comment(s).
I laugh at Mike’s “I’m a God” attitude, and Russo’s “I know Sports” attitude. Yes, I still listen, but only for the guests they get to interview, but I don’t listen just to hear their lame views.
Great post, Pete.
They are just jealous that Joba Chamberlain is the man.
rmlevine,
I thought I left you at NYT many years ago! By the way, I don’t like Joba’s act, but its not a big deal, I just don’t like anybody (Pete) telling me I have to watch ESPN Classic if I don’t Joba’s actions.
Mike and the Maddog know sports history, but I wouldn’t call them smart.
I can’t stand listening because they don’t entertain the other side of the coin hardly ever.
As for Joba, he should look straight in the camera and pump his fists from now on. Seriously, its not like he comes in during blowouts and mocks the other team. He’s trying to get close games to Mariano. I say fist pumps are warranted. Should Jeter stop doing it too? What a dumb conversation.
I agree levine, soon the accountants and lawyers are going to start posting about how offended they are too…
Oh God now we have a Met fan whining about Joba “strutting” around the mound.
I personally think it’s fine, but was honestly surprised to see it on Opening Day. Playoff game, sure, but opening day? Also, I think Joba needs to understand that doing that will fire up the batter and motivate him even more the next time he’s up at bat.
Yeah, attendance has been slightly low, but the weather’s been horrible in NY the past few days.
crawdaddie – I guess I am like an STD that visits every once in awhile. How the hell are you. Speak to emac?
So striking a guy out = emotion which is ok
Crushing a 400 foot HR = not emotion, and disrespecting the game
The two acts are the EXACT SAME THING
If you have no problem with Manny, you can’t have a problem with Joba.
If you have a problem with Manny, you have to have a problem with Joba.
I find it funny that people would think that Joba is just trying to “appease” the crowd by doing his fist pumps.
How does that make any sense?
I don’t like what Joba’s doing. I’m in CT right in the middle of Red Sox country and my biggest knock on their team is Manny and Papelbon’s obnoxiousness. Papelbon’s looks like a jackass when he goes crazy after a strikeout. And Manny is a moron, I watched him the other nigh stand there and watch a ball hit off the top of the wall. He should have been standing on second but he was 5 feet out of the box. His theatrics cost his team and that’s fine with me.
As Yankees fans if you don’t like seeing Manny and Papelbon doing that crap against us well no more complaining about them if Joba is doing it for us.
Here’s a quote from Mariano Rivera from Buster Olney’s book Last Night Of the Yankees Dynasty. “Mariano paused and stood behind a crowd of teammates as they watched a pitcher celebrate on the mound after striking out the last batter. Here’s what Mariano said “Show some respect for the game. Show some respect for yourself.” That sums it up for me.
Scott
Why do you Yankees fans always have to turn it back to the Redsox? IE Manny and Paps. The post is about Mike and Dog…any reason to dissent huh?
craw. you should come and visit elba and see all your old nemisis
http://forums.escapefromelba.c.....d,3.0.html
“Manny Ramirez disrespects the game and his opponents when he poses at the plate after hitting the ball.”
“It’s 2008, let the kids play ball. Tear up the unwritten rules and have some fun. The old guys can watch ESPN Classic if they don’t like it.”
Claiming that Manny’s emotional reaction is unacceptable while Joba’s is OK is hypocrisy at its finest. I know you have an audience to cater to, Pete, but you make yourself look foolish when you contradict yourself this way.
i would probably not mind if Joba were to tone it down a little.
that said, the fact that M&MD are against it have me rethinking my position.
i am now pro-pump. i can’t share any opinions with those two idiots.
There isn’t a clear, logical line between what’s acceptable and what’s not. I think it’s just been the culture of baseball that posing at the plate or staring down the pitcher is unacceptable. I can see the similarity between posing at the plate and fist pumping, because you’re celebrating your own achievement, but I think staring down a pitcher is different because it’s deliberately and specifically antagonistic to another player.
rmlevine,
I’m doing well, but not as well as you or your Red Sox have been doing.:) No, I haven’t talked with anybody from NYT except Captain Cargo over on NYYFans.com
Saying that Manny disrespects the game while defending Joba for doing the same thing is one of the most foolish things that I’ve ever read written about baseball.
Wow. Crawdad and rmlevine in the same day! Well I’ll be!!!
Interesting that any time I’ve listened to Joba be interviewed or read comments he’s made humility is the first word that comes to my min. Please don’t confuse confidence with lack of humility.
gsam – and I was just going to post – stop dissin’ the lawyers. We’re actually a fun bunch if you get to know us!
And Pete, other than that statement, I agree with you. He’s a great kid and he’s fun to watch. I get excited for him. As much as I know he deserves the starting role, he is so made for this role.
Hey craw, we have our own forum too if you hadn’t been a part of it! The same old gang is there posting during games. By invitation only if you’re interested!
http://p219.ezboard.com/bnewyorkyankeebaseball
Be well in any event.
Trisha
P.S. This is definitely our year for #27.
Pete – I don’t know about accountants, but lawyers can be pretty excitable. I fist pump on conference calls when I get people to cave in on opinion points.
Hugh
If someone says it bothers them, it does. If someone says it doesn’t, it doesn’t. Your insecurity in being able to accept it that way doesn’t change that fact.
Trisha,
How you’ve been? There is a Trisha over on NYYFans.com is that you?
Showing emotion/celebrating after hitting a big HR is clapping or fist pumping and yelling, etc AS YOU RUN THE BASES. Standing there and posing as the ball leaves the yard is showing up a pitcher. Big difference.
I think what Joba does is a release after getting a big out in a tense situation. He doesn’t do it deliberately or for every game. As far as his “strutting,” that’s part of his presence on the mound, which is part of what makes him successful, and I wouldn’t want him to change it one bit.
Pete, don’t fall off your chair….but I agree with you 100%
gsam, I was thinking about redecorating Buckingham Palace when I move in, do you know any good interior decorators in the London area?
mike and the dog are old farts some times. Let’s just talk about the results on the field since joba is not showing up his opponent. Can they do something newsworthy like criticize omar for his awful trades as a gm (sizemore & Phillips deal, bannister, bell, etc)
Crawdaddie – same old Trish if you catch my drift
Mike and the Mad Dog are nearly unlistenable these days. It’s ten minutes of yelling, boring interviews, 30-second phone calls because how dare one of their listeners express an opinion to the vaunted team of Mike & Dog, Inc., followed by four minutes of commercials, lather, rinse, repeat.
Francesca in particular has gotten extremely nasty in recent years. These two need to be put out to pasture, yesterday.
Aaron: Manny needs to wait until he gets to home plate before he celebrates. Celebrate after you score the run. The only time I recall Joba’s fist pumps is if he strikes out the 3rd batter of an inning. He then turns from the batter and pumps his fist. It’s different. Manny hits a home run, raises his arms in the air and stares at it. It makes a pitcher feel bad. When Joba’s pumping his fist, the batter doesn’t HAVE to look. He should be walking away by then.
It’s not the same thing.
“Standing there and posing as the ball leaves the yard is showing up a pitcher. Big difference.”
Wrong
It’s the same thing as showing up a hitter by freaking out after striking him out
Either it’s all bad, or it’s all fine
I am fine with the celebrations, though it may be a bit excessive given the stakes. However, I think it is much different than a player like Manny who shows little emotion, as if being great is the way he expects it to happen. Joba is showing he is not that cocky, and gets excited when he is doing well.
I’m sad. You just called them funny and smart. Now I may have to go find another Yankee blog to read.
Ok:
funny – you must mean kind of in the “professional wrestling way” (i.e. funny to idiots, sickening to everyone else)?
smart – I assume you mean in comparison to reptiles or sea anenomes, or Dusty Baker?
seriously. that was a joke right?
I agree that Manny is making a fool out of himself
But yes it very much is the same thing
I could care less what Joba does, but to call out Manny and defend Joba is infantile
I don’t want him to tone it down one bit.
The Mike and the Mad Dog Show jumped the shark years ago.
All of sports radio is toilet driven. These guys are just the plumbers and nothing more.
We FINALLY have some guys who play as if they LIKE being Yankees.
If opponents don’t like it, then hit his fastball and slider.
If Mike and the Mad Dog don’t like it, they can kiss off.
“It’s the same thing as showing up a hitter by freaking out after striking him out
Either it’s all bad, or it’s all fine”
Disagree. Celebrating at home plate after a home run is the equivalent of celebrating getting out of a big inning with a big strikeout.
Craw, no it’s not me! I found this blog during the Clemens hearings when all of the news about it was on the Daily News! Great blog, by the way, lots of interesting posters.
We are still hanging out at the Ezboard forum. We keep the unwanteds out and it makes for a good time that way! Drop by sometime.
Pete, good post, even though I disagree with you. There was an article the other day where Mo was talking about the importance of class and criticized Papelbon. I’m inclined against pumping because of the way I played sports myself (I’m a HS has-been). That being said, there isn’t anything overtly wrong about it.
Just so you know (even though you probably won’t read this): I was sitting in Section 39, I believe in 2003 or 04, when Vernon Wells was in Center. He let us get to him pretty good, and then responded by bending over and making a motion to let us know we were talking out of our asses, and then gave us the finger (we got a big kick out of it when the very next play, Jeter lined a triple off the wall right in front of us and Wells got injured running into the wall to try to stop it). I don’t have any particular hatred for the guy (it was all in good fun), but I’m not sure I would call him one of the classiest guys in baseball.
Also – some of these comments are ridiculous. You really don’t see the difference between Manny posing at home plate and Joba pumping his fist? Really??
The fist pump is in the heat of the moment – adreline, emotion, blah blah.
Manny hits the ball, watches it leave, and makes a conscious decision to admire it.
Joba’s fist pump is in no way premediated, conscious, or intended to show the batter up.
If you guys don’t see the difference, there’s really nothing else I can say.
I know I don’t want him to change. Besides he got his fist pumpin’ from Harlen, his Dad.
wow if Mike and Chris are Einstein and Michelangelo, talk radio really is the bottom of the barrel.
In defense of Manny, I don’t think he’s bright enough to disrespect the game. No disrespect intended!
SJ44.
Great Post.
Wait a minute, hold the presses, Zach Minor just pumped his fist after striking out Jim Thome.. True Story.
Who cares. I like seeing the emotion from Joba and Paps.
Manny is an idiot. Is that new news?
-dennis
Personally, I think Joba has to start doing the fake heart attack chest clutch like Redd Fox did on Sanford and Son after each strike out.
Either that or the Roger Rabbit.
Trisha.
Well said about Manny. He is a great hitter with the bases loaded. Why you may ask?
He does not know they are loaded!
-dennis
“Also – some of these comments are ridiculous. You really don’t see the difference between Manny posing at home plate and Joba pumping his fist? Really??
The fist pump is in the heat of the moment – adreline, emotion, blah blah.
Manny hits the ball, watches it leave, and makes a conscious decision to admire it.
Joba’s fist pump is in no way premediated, conscious, or intended to show the batter up.
If you guys don’t see the difference, there’s really nothing else I can say.
”
How is crushing a 400foot HR and standing there wathcing it not “the heat of the moment”
It’s the same thing!
Anybody who doesn’t see that suffers from fanboyitis
Okay – I understand if Manny hits an absolute no-brainer bomb and poses at the plate. But he also hits a ball that lands in the warning track and watches that as if he just hit a homerun also. And in those instances, he looks like a chump.
Joba doesn’t eye anyone while he’s pumping his fists. He doesn’t glare at anyone. He’s doing it because he’s happy for himself. So that’s the difference.
While it is true that M and the MD are better than the certifiable idiots who populate Boston sports radio, I find them increasingly smug, arrogant and unprepared. Last year when all astute Yankee fans knew all about the kids coming up the pipeline, they were astonishingly ignorant. I remember when M was surprised that there was even a web site devoted to Yankee minor league news (in that instance PinstripesPlus). Ans I am sure neither has heard of Chad Jennings. I can’t listen to them aymore.
I don’t like what Joba’s doing. I’m in CT right in the middle of Red Sox country and my biggest knock on their team is Manny and Papelbon’s obnoxiousness. Papelbon’s looks like a jackass when he goes crazy after a strikeout. And Manny is a moron, I watched him the other nigh stand there and watch a ball hit off the top of the wall. He should have been standing on second but he was 5 feet out of the box. His theatrics cost his team and that’s fine with me.
As Yankees fans if you don’t like seeing Manny and Papelbon doing that crap against us well no more complaining about them if Joba is doing it for us.
Here’s a quote from Mariano Rivera from Buster Olney’s book Last Night Of the Yankees Dynasty. “Mariano paused and stood behind a crowd of teammates as they watched a pitcher celebrate on the mound after striking out the last batter. Here’s what Mariano said “Show some respect for the game. Show some respect for yourself.” That sums it up for me right there.
Scott
Lori,
I only made that comment because pete didn’t include my profession (investment banking), in that group haha.
We spend a lot of time with lawyers and they definitely are capable of breaking that stereotype haha.
Dennis -
The whole “disrespecting the game” thing is silly anyway when there are guys like Bonds, Pettitte, Giambi, and Gagne cheating and taking PEDs.
Posing for a HR or fist pumping if issue # 46424995 on the list of things in MLB that need improving.
SJ44,
So if you don’t show emotion, you don’t care about being a Yankee?
Also, I hope Joba’s press clippings are not getting to his head.
Mo clearly hates being a Yankee
It’s obvious
Mike and the Maddog are very good at what they do… and that is to get ratings and endorsements for WFAN. I stopped listening to them a long time ago because of their ignorance of details and intolerance of listeners opinions. And it seems like many posters here share the same opinion yet every afternoon there are dozens of posts from people fuming over what they’re saying. Yet people are all still tuning in, getting agitated, and then venting here on the blog – not to mention helping the M&MD ratings. Stop the insanity and turn them off.
Minor League baseball is like Hockey to Mike: He doesn’t care about it.
When Melancon comes up later this year, he’ll act like he’s known about him forever.
Mo hates being a Yankee
Scott, I believe in a live and let live world and not telling people how they should think and what is right and what is wrong. The best I can do is say what I believe. And in my world, that is more than enough for me!
So here it is. I don’t mind styling, I don’t mind fistpumps, I think K-rod looks demented, everyone have a ball. I personally find it deplorable when it comes from Papelsmear only because I find his arrogance and overblown ego repugnant. I find ANYONE who compares himself to Mariano Rivera to be a whack job – no matter the team. And I must admit to another prejudice here. I don’t like ugly, and Papelsmear, well he is an ugly dude especially when he tries to do that hideous mouth scowl, where he makes his mouth the size of a dime on a face as big as a ball field.
So here’s a Yankee fan feeling fine about Joba doing something and wanting to kick the crap out of Papelsmear every time he looks like he’s having an orgasm on the mound. However, I have my reasons.
“How is crushing a 400foot HR and standing there wathcing it not “the heat of the moment—
Because it’s not a moment. It drags on and on and on as he continues to stand there and admire his handiwork. It’d be like Joba standing there with his fist clenched watching the guy walking to the dugout as he waits to be the last off the field.
Also…Manny does it sometimes on solo shots when his team is down five runs. It’s more the pattern there that really speaks to his intent. It’s not a heat of the moment thing. He’s reveling in how awesome he is.
Have to say, Pete, I’m surprised you like Mike & the Mad Dog. They might be “smarter” than the average sports talk guys (and I emphasize “might”) but they’re also serious jerks. Francesa is smug, condescending, and unbelievably stubborn*. Russo has built his entire career on an over-the-top demeanor that became a caricature of itself years ago. Seriously: Russo is riding Joba for overwrought histrionics? Someone needs to hand the man a dictionary and open it to the entry on “irony”.
(*As a guy who used to cover UConn, maybe you remember the dismissive and disrespectful way Francesa talked about them in 1999 as they were on their way to their first national title. The Monday before the championship game against Duke, he said on the radio – paraphrasing here – that if UConn could pull off the upset over Duke he’d relent and give them their due. Instead, on the next day’s show after Connecticut’s 77-74 win, he says “Look, if they play that game 10 times, Duke wins 9 out of 10.” Like I said, he’s a stubborn jerk.)
Well said, Pete. I totally agree. I get pumped up myself when I see Joba spin around and do a fist punch (maybe because I am at Joba’s age myself0
Mike Francesa and Chris Russo are two terrible human beings with a terrible show. They are as bad for sports talk radio as Manny is bad for baseball.
Aaron – I’m not saying that Manny watching his HR is a big problem. But you really don’t see the difference? This is one of those things that’s so obvious it’s difficult to explain.
Manny hits the ball, and he normally runs, right? Running is the natural reaction. When he hits (what he think will be) a home run, he makes a _conscious_ decision to stop and admire it.
Joba’s fist-pump is not conscious. He doesn’t stop to think “Hey, I just struck this guy out – I should do something to show him up.” It’s no different whatsoever than a fan screaming at an intense moment at the moment a ball is hit hard.
In fact, that might be a good analogy:
Joba’s fist-pump is to a fan screaming/jumping up as soon as a ball is hit hard, as Manny’s watching the HR is to the fan screaming “Red Sox suck”.
Disagree? With what, specifically?
And no, no fanboyitis here. I was as critical of Duncan’s slide as anyone and totally defended the Rays. If the situations were reversed, I’d be defending the Sox and criticising the Yankees. I have no problem with Papelbon whatsoever.
It’s 4-5 seconds at most
It is the heat of the moment
Again, it’s stupid…but so is freaking out like a raving lunatic after a strike out in the 8th inning.
“Because it’s not a moment. It drags on and on and on as he continues to stand there and admire his handiwork. It’d be like Joba standing there with his fist clenched watching the guy walking to the dugout as he waits to be the last off the field.”
Well said.
Taost,
Well said. Great post.
Has anyone ever heard Dave Damashek in LA? Really bad.
I was at the game last night and Phil looked great from the Upper deck.
Anyone care to give a scouting report? Did he pitch differenty. Looked like he had the change working-true
Can we stop responding to Aaron now? Because he’s the only one that’s dragging this debate on and on…
Joba should carry a brief case with him on the mound and instead of screaming and fist pumping he should just hand the hitter the brief ase and say “you just got the business”
Another reason why Manny’s wrong:
Because his actions are the exact opposite of something adrenaline-related. He is _stopping_, calming down, and pausing. Exactly the opposite of what Joba’s doing. If Manny jumped up and started pumping his fist (I’m thinking Joe Carter 1993 World Series style), it could be defended as being intense, into the game, etc. (maybe a bit over the top when it’s a regular season meaningless HR, but still – if he’s that into the game, good for him).
Just like if Joba paused on the mound, slowly raised his arm, and, I don’t know, kissed his hand and slowly raised his fist to the sky. THAT would be unnacceptable.
Russo and Francesa are idiots. They are dragging this self created controversy on and on. If anyone actually did care in the first place I doubt they do now.
Motown Yankee Fan
April 4th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Pete – I don’t know about accountants, but lawyers can be pretty excitable. I fist pump on conference calls when I get people to cave in on opinion points.
Speaking on behalf of accountants, yep, we (well, some of us anyway) can be excitable too. There’s a reason we have a don’t ask, don’t tell policy about April 15th office parties…
As for the emotion, I don’t let it bother me whoever’s emoting. Not worth the energy. I might roll my eyes or gag when Manny does his self-adulation at the plate, but feh. That’s what the remote control is for.
Andrea – I’m not allowed to have an opinion that’s different than yours?
Did everyone else here that one caller? They were talking about Joba and Francesa was totally dismissing what the caller was saying, which was that Joba was just excited, and it wasn’t done to show up the blue jays.
And then the caller said to Francesa, “you would get that excited eating dinner at a buffet” Lol…priceless…
hear*
“Anyone care to give a scouting report? Did he pitch differenty. Looked like he had the change working-true”
That was his curve you saw, probably. He only threw a few changes, but his curve sits around 70MPH and he used it a lot.
“Compared to the sports talk radio in other cities, especially Boston and Philadelphia, they’re Einstein and Michelangelo.”
Great point (and great post), Peter.
When I lived in Massachusetts I was amazed at the ratio of vapid ranting to actual sports knowledge.
I like M&MD most of the time, but after leaving Boston radio, I LOVED them by comparison!
Thanks Whozat
Following up on Jon’s comment: Manny’s also hit nearly 500 HRs in the majors. Joba’s only pitched in what, 30-something games… You can’t even really compare the two.
Mike Kay was talking about this yesterday if anyone heard, and I just wanted to point out his definition of how Joba’s pump (or Krod, paps, etc.) are different from a player standing around at home plate after a HR. A pump or twirl or whatever after a strikeout is a release of emotion, as long as you don’t pull an Eckersly and point at the guy. A player standing at home plate to watch his homerun is arrogance.
Agree to disagree I just wanted to post this point of view.
if boston radio is that bad, I would make sure that I had my car radio taken out if I ever had to move thier…but I never will. Boston has to be the worst city in the world to live in if youre not white, Irish, racist, and alcoholic and inbred.
Aaron–you are. But everyone’s just repeating themselves and arguing in circles. It’s getting boring. Start a new discussion, is all. And people can disagree with me and keep going. I’m just bored. Trying to mix things up.
Pete– right on.
However, I disagree on one thing….
Joba pumps a fist and spins, as do a lot of pitchers.
Jonathan Papelbon, in conjunction with his constantly moving lips (he talks a lot of smack for a youngster), takes it a step further.
Call me sensitive, but Papelbon almost looks like he’s making a crude motion on the mound, with his multi-pumps.
(DISCLAIMER: I fully realize this is a family used website, so I am trying to be extremely careful with my description here of Papelbon’s ‘strike out motion’, without being crude myself or disrespectful toward the writer of this blog or its readers and my fellow posters. But y’all should know what I’m getting at here…)
In other words, I find Papelbon crude and rude. And I think Manny Ramirez is disrespectful towards the game of baseball almost every time he steps on a field…
All in my humble opinion, of course.
Pete, those guys are NOT smart. and i cant believe people still listen to them.
Maybe a change of subject?
Who is hands down the best teams in the National league in your opinion. Here are my top 5.
1)Rockies
2)Philly
3)D-backs
4)Mets
5)Atl
I believe the NL East is by far the best division in the NL.
The NL Central is the worst in MLB. All the Cub love is absurd. Nice story. Real big stretch.
-dennis
I’m half Dominican and Puerto Rican and I’ll tell you straight up I have no problem w/ anyone’s post strikeout celebration except for Uggy but Joba does not disrespect the game, a guy that does is Manny Ramirez and he is never really called out on it, again if M&MD don’t know the difference from Jose Reyes doing post elongated handshakes at the top of the dugout step and Manny’s 15 seconds of looking at the ball the pitcher, the ball the pitcher then they are morons.
Cashman since you read this blog don’t let Joba change a thing.
When Pete refers to the game taking care of it, remember that if someone hits one over the fence off of Joba and Pirouettes, fist pumps and screams all the way from third base to homeplate on his homerun trot. It’s just the emotion of the situation, he’s not trying to show up the Yankees or Joba.
I want a team of people who are allowed to have their own personalities. I dontt expect everyone to be as reserved as Mo; but unlike the perpetual pass given to Manny, I do expect players to take responsibility for their actions and understand there are consequences for them.
Great post, Peter! An SJ is very sound as usual!
I don’t think anyone has to worry about the kid getting a big head. Pay attention to his story and you will realize that. People who like to take other people down a peg, usually are on the bottom looking up anyway!
I really appreciate the emotion on this team. I was getting very tired of Joe Torre looking like he was sleeping through most games. And I loved Joe T. But this is a whole new chemistry and I love it!
whozat are you watching Jonathan Sanchez vs Milwaukee the kid is dealing
Francesa and Russo are smart? Uhh … ok, man.
stopped listening to these 2 clowns long ago.Mike trys to be the smarter one of the pair but he’s not much better than the Mutt. Only on a N.Y. station could a jerk like Russo get away with bashing the home team like he does, let him go to bean town & try his act. Can you say over.
Hugh.
Please explain that to Harvard, MIT, BC (my alma mater) BU, Wellesly, Northeastern, Tufts, and on and on. I guess the faculty and students do not reside in Boston?
Why do most NY’s that are bright send their kids to college in New England?
That was the worst post of the day. I will leave now.
good Luck against the Rays.
Take Care -dennis
Pete, you know I don’t always agree with you but I absolutely agree with you here.
Please call into Mike and the MadDog and tell them to shut up.
Let JOBA BE JOBA!!!
“Vernon Wells and Frank Thomas said they didn’t care and that’s good enough for me. You won’t find two classier players in baseball.”
Really? There’s nobody in baseball classier than these two guys? Not one player?
If by “smart†you mean they know what buttons to push to get “debate†going and keep their ratings up and the calls coming in, then I would agree 100%.
Pete,
If by “smart†you mean they know what buttons to push to get “debate†going and keep their ratings up and the calls coming in, then I would agree 100%.
Sorry for the double post.
M&MD are a bunch of idiots who shouldn’t be on the air. The only bigger fools are the people who call in and drink the koolaid that they’re serving.
It doesn’t matter how you defend Joba, people are still going to get all over him…it’s ridiculous. Pete, I agree that if the players have no problem with it then who cares. The media will continue to hype it up and twist it into something it’s not.
Ya know, nobody has mentioned this that I’ve seen, but it’s not like after every single time Joba strikes somebody out he does a fist pump. Usually he’ll walk around the back of the mound, stare out at his defense, and then get back on the hill. If it is the last batter of an inning, with a runner in scoring position, in a close game who cannot understand some adrenaline running through his system!?
Russo hates the Yankees so anything he says should be immediately dismissed.
“whozat are you watching Jonathan Sanchez vs Milwaukee the kid is dealing”
I only skip work to watch Yankee games
This something very confusing about this post. Mike and the Mad Dog are smart? Huh?
Fistpumps have become a way of life. I can’t watch any sporting event, even on television, without doing my own couch potato pump. Embrace the pump.
http://www.fistpumps.com/
I find it hilarious that some Yankee fans get on Frankie Rodriguez and Jonathan Papelbon for their on the mound orgasms but are defending Joba here. SHOCKING!
Listen, I could give a rat’s ass if he celebrates. It doesn’t bug me because I have cheered Paps and his antics on for years and I’m not about to be a hypocrite. What does “bug†(haha) me are Yankee fans that are doing the exact opposite. What happened to “class†and “playing the game the right way†crap that you have shoved down the rest of baseball’s collective throats for the past years?
As I said yesterday I hope Joba tones up his celebration.
I want him to point at the players he strikes out and then point to their dugout as if he’s telling them to go sit down! When he’s playing the Red Sox I hope after he strikes out Youkilis/Manny/Ortiz he follows up with a body slam for good measure. THAT my friends would be glorious.
Hated it when Eckersly did it…used to keep me up after an Oakland game…Hate it when F-Rod does it….I’m not a hypocrite…Joba…cool your jets….
I love Joba but his twirling fist pumps aren’t good.He just needs to prove himself first he hasn’t proved anything yet.He hasn’t played a full year barely played back to back games or closed more then one game.I would believe out of the big three he might be too cocky for his own good.Thats why I love Hughes mahor talent but doesn’t let it get too his head.
Hope our true heir to being a closer is more like Mariano then Joba.
“whozat are you watching Jonathan Sanchez vs Milwaukee the kid is dealing”
Also…you might want to retract that sentiment, given what’s happened now
He seems to me another kid who throws hard but doesn’t pitch. I know you yearn for lefties, but let’s not fall into the trap of lusting after throwers that have shown zero ability to command their stuff. I mean, if you’re talking about drafting a high school kid, sure…but this ain’t that
Chamberlain is so full of himself.
Ray -
He he he he he he he he he! That post made me so happy that I read it, then re-read it multiple times!!! If I were a panda I would be doing somersaults right now!
While I personally don’t have a problem with Joba being emotional, it boils down to something my Dad always told me…
…”Act like you have been there before.”
Joba Chamberlain’s fist pump is destroying baseball…
http://respectjetersgangster.blogspot.com
whozat you have to admit he was dealing before being pulled.
Pete you might be too much into the Patriots a Boston team when you put let Joba Be Joba.I bet when Manny looks at his Homeruns people around here hate Manny being Manny.We are not a Boston team we don’t show that much emotions because we have respect.Joba hasn’t proven anything as a statering or relief pitcher.
Joba is not the future Mariano because Mariano is a pro not a prospect.
Can anybody shed some light on the nature and extent of Joba’s fistpumping during the preseason? Did they have him on a strict fistpump count?
“Chamberlain is so full of himself.”
And my front door is the King of England. So Lord Chamberlain is who you must be talking about. Please refer to him as Lord Chamberlain from this point forward. Nothing less is acceptable from the mouths of the plebians who would dare to question the wisdom and grace of Lord Joba Chamberlain.
Some Pearls From the Lips of Lord Chamberlain
“I’ve never taken a family vacation my entire life. I started thinking, I want to do something for a family — not necessarily that has someone sick, but someone who works for a living, pays their bills, provides for their family but doesn’t have enough extra money to do something that they want to do.â€
“You’re only a baseball player for so long, but you’re a human being your whole life,†he said. “Baseball is going to be over, and I want people to know that I was a good baseball player, but a better person.â€
“These days are going to happen; it’s what you learn from them,” Chamberlain said. “You learn from your successes, but you learn more from your failures.”
Now don’t make me have to go to You Tube and make a video called “LEAVE JOBA ALONE!”
LOL Fernando
Best post ever. Nice job.
This is simple arrogance on their part. They jumped all over Joba, the stewards of professionalism that they are (which doesn’t seem to apply to their own profession as they spend hours picking apart the job other announcers do) and almost everyone I have heard has completely gone the other way on this, calling their sense, in a word, moronic. So, instead of letting it drop, they need to come back on and “prove” they know what they are talking about and everyone else doesn’t. Funniest thing yesterday was Fat Francesa, after spending the entire day basically calling Joba the scourge of baseball and saying he wasn’t playing the game the right way, gets Girardi on the phone and is almost apologetic asking him the question about Joba. “Maybe it is just generational, but I thought it might be a little over the top” was a far cry from the “he is showing up the other team” diatribe he had been on all day. They have all the guts in the world until someone actually comes on their show, especially a guy like Girardi, who needs them and their money like I need a rootcanal. This is a made-up controversy started by too “beginning to get too old for the job” blowhard losers who have made a killing spewing nonsense for 20 years. And if Russo wants to act tough about Joba, go do a one on one with Joba at Yankee Stadium and basically call him a thug. Predicition? Next time these two morons have Joba on they will pat his back and treat him like a superstar.
This fist pumping debate is completely ridiculous.
if the hitters don’t care, why should anybody else? As long as he’s not looking at the guy he struck out, or in their dugout or something like that, there’s no problem. Personally, though, I like Ian’s way better; when you make a perfect 2 strike pitch you start walking off seemingly before the ball even gets there, and well before the pitch is called. That’s just beautiful.
Mike and the Mad Dog may be better than most sports talk show hosts, but that certainly doesn’t make them smart. Their entire ilk is nothing but inane blowhards who barely have a grasp on the concepts of the sport they blather on about. But the casual fan finds them entertaining enough I guess. For me, M&MD are the worst thing on the radio, and the worst thing on YES.
I can only agree.
I was dumbfounded when I they spent another umpteen hours on this non-issue today.
I like them, but there’s just no issue here. For the first time in ages, I just turned them off.
Pete, you’re something else, I can’t believe your third grade views sometimes. How are you saying Manny disrespects the game but Joba doesn’t?…..idiot!!
I’m a Yankees fan, but come on lets not say Manny disrespects the game when he celebrates his homeruns.
“trisha”…..wow…Lord chamberlain, now I know why this country is the way it is. Do you even know what “lord” means?
i agree, enough with this. let the kid have fun. how about spending some of the time discussing things like the yankees winning two games when they scored three runs and also winning a game in which they successfully laid down consecutive sacrifice bunts in the eighth inning.
So if Frank Thomas hit a home run in that spot and then moonwalked around the bases and did a split at home plate everyone here would’ve shrugged and said, “nice moves.” Sure.
Clearly it’s a question of degree. Genuine show of spontaneous emotion in a big spot: fine. Choreographed dance step to end the 8th inning: too much.
Dial it back rook.
I think that Joba should be pumping his fist after every strike. He should be thumping his chest for strikeouts.
Seriously, I was almost as excited as he was. It may be early in teh year, but it was opening day. Also given Joba’s age, The Big Hurt has been a baseball god for much of his life, it has to be a thrill to strike him out.
I think the way to tell if it is over the top is if you would want your kid to emulate them and learn how the game “should” be played from watching them. I can even respect some Sox players if they meet that standard (not Manny).
“Yeah”
Do I know the meaning of the word “lord”? Yeah I do but it’s obvious in your asking of the question that you don’t. So here’s some help for ye.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lord
This was purely a topic for a boring rainy day. But does anyone else here giggle when posters get their panties into an obvious twist and make moralizing statements with righteous indignation, thereby implying that THEIR perspective is THE CORRECT PERSPECTIVE????? What a hoot.
Note to everyone who posts here, including Pete Abraham. When it comes to topics such as whether fist pumps are right or wrong: we’re all on equal footing, jackrabbits! All we have is our own opinion. And since there are so many varying opinions, it’s pretty moronic to attempt to tell someone else that her or his way is the wrong way!
Wow. Talk about making a big deal out of absolutely nothing. I never thought that this whole fist pump thing would get as much attention as it has. The media really needs to let it go.
“Yeah!”
Do I even know what “Lord” means? Yeah, I do, but it is obvious that you don’t since you asked the question that way. Here’s some help for Ye.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lord
On another note, does anyone know what the weather is like in New York right now?
Being a pro has nothing to do with it. They’re different types of people – Joba is a more vocal person, and that’s fine. He sounds like he could step back a little and be a little more humble, but look at the quality of the individual – is he unprepared for his job? Does he complain and make a big deal out of nothing? Does he not give his 100%, day in and day out, regardless of his role? Is he not a grounded, smart, and prepared professional?
According to you, Joba shouldn’t do anything because he’s unproven – I guess that means that only all-stars are allowed to show emotion. How does that make any sense? Is it classy to be completely stoic and emotionless like some players? To me classy is to be humble and competitive without going overboard, not to be a statue. If you’re saying Joba’s happiness at doing something good in a tough situation, aka doing his JOB, is him being unclassy, then we differ on this spot. If he was pumping his fist and glaring and waving at the batter he just retired on a routine flyball in the 6th inning up 10-1, then yeah, he needs to dial it back a bit. But at that situation? He just K’d a hall of famer in a tough jam at the last opening day at the greatest ballpark in the world. That’s cause for concern? You must hate Paul O’Neill, who epitomized your definition of “showing someone up” by continually screaming, knocking over water coolers, and taking practice at bats in the field. Oh he must have been showing up Torre, taking his frustrations out like that, right?
At the end of the day, no one likes someone celebrating something that caused us anguish – it’s like someone cutting you off and then giving you the finger – nobody likes it. But this is a free country, do what you want to do. It seems Wells and Thomas had no problems with it, and seeing comments like these where its portrayed as if he questioned the manager, was insubordinate, or genuinely was showing up the opposing team, that’s really out of line. This isn’t an example.
And while I hate to have to explain my brilliance and wit, Yeah!, let me tell you what fun I expected posters to get out of my post on Lord Chamberlain.
1. I started off by saying my front door was the King of England.
2. Since Lord Chamberlain is English and an officer in the royal household, I stayed with the King of England theme and made Joba Chamberlain “Lord Chamberlain.”
3. I then tried to make a distinction between people criticizing Joba by referring to them as plebians, thus distinguishing them from people with the title of Lord, as in Lord Joba Chamberlain, shortened to Lord Chamberlain.
It was much more fun thinking that people just followed along and understood that I was being quite tongue-in-cheek.
the 360,fistpump is lame, act like you’ve been there before.
M&MD are two of the dumbest radio hosts around when it comes to baseball. Cashman takes them to school on a regular basis, but they never learn.
I would be embarrassed that these clowns are number #1 in the NY market. I used to listen online last summer and it took about 1 month for me to drop that link off my radio favorites.
In the Tucson market we have Glen Parker on the sfternoon.
Remember him Giant fans ? Anyway he is awful but compared to Mike and SFGiantfan Dog he is light years better.
As Huey Lewis would say “Sometimes Bad is Bad”.
The last two words I would use to describe Francesa and Russo are “smart” and “funny”. If sports talk is worse in other cities (I have no knowledge of that) than sports talk wasteland is a more barren wasteland than C. Newton Minnow thought television was in the early 1960s.
“Enough with the Joba talk…. If he gets excited, you can’t have baseball players walking around like robots. I mean, I know you Mike, you get excited walking around the buffet table.. †– Frank from Pennsylvania, a caller to Wfan radio’s Mike and The Mad Dog show. The discussion center around the over exuberance shown on the mound by Yankee Pitcher Joba Chamberlain.
I listen to M&TMD every day normally. The last 2 days, I had to turn them off. I am so sick of hearing them berate and beat down Joba for something he did b/c he was showing some emotion on opening day in Yankee Stadium. He wasn’t showing anyone up – He was being himself. You would think he took a bat and smacked Frank Thomas in the head,a nd then did a dance in front of him, the way they were talking about him. Gimme a break!
Anyone who has anything bad to say about him – why don’t you do a simple search on the internet and see everything HE has aready given back to his hometown community in this short time in the big leagues. He has used his ‘fame’ to help families from his hometown and has been a guest speaker (this week) for Kips Bay Boys & Girls Club to speak about healthy eating & excersise for children, as he struggled with being overweight his entire childhood. Listen to how his father and him talk about each other and the relationship they have. Yeh yeh I know, cry me a river… but – I do not detect any kind of arrogance and cockiness when he is interviewed. I hear a guy that is so happy to be doing his job for the yankees and does what he is told. He is excited. YES it’s exciting to play for the NY Yankees and he has a personality that shows it –
WAY TO GO JOBA! KEEP IT GOING!
Don’t let any of the M&TMD people get you down!
p.s. M&TMD Admittedly said of all the calls they got regarding the ‘fist pumping’ controversy, about 80% of the callers were AGAINST them and for Joba.
Way to go Joba! Keep doing what you’re doing! NY Loves ya! This is what we need to make it to the world series this year!
Well said, Pete.
Wow…I posted an almost identical blog entry about 3 hours prior to yours. I guess we think alike.
I’d just point out the kid is 22, first time on an Opening Day roster. Papelbon is 27, and Manny will be 36 next month fercrissakes.
At first, nobody said boo about Jose Reyes doing a full macarena after every Mets run scored for most of last year–just kids being exuberant. After the late-season collapse, however, Reyes announced in spring training he was bagging his celebrations. The point: the game, indeed, humbles players who need humbling. Unclear how two talking windbags aid the process.
oh, shot! intensity, focus, emotion declared illegal. no pro athlete should be allowed to get pumped, i guess.
shame on you, apologists for poor sportsmanship. none of those pitchers should be fist pumping. papelbon and chamberlain are punks who haven’t accomplished much. well, at least papelbon has won some big games. but jsut because chamberlain lunched with clemens doesn’t mean he gets to act like him. this is a man who looked like a school boy swatting bugs last year. bee-yatch!