Breaking down Igawa
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- April
- 7
I have a theory on Kei Igawa that I have been working on for quite some time. Here it is:
He’s no damn good.
There could be more to it than that, I will admit. The guys at Saber Scouting have some theories of their own that are interesting.
The K-Man is the No. 1 starter for Scranton and is probably first in line when the Yankees need a starter.
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on Monday, April 7th, 2008 at 12:14 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
i am so glad i was able to check in tonight. this post absolutely slayed me.
unfortunately, it’s true. igawa’s awful.
I agree Pete. Thats all.
i wish horne were first in line
yea Igawa is god awful. I can pitch better than that character.
Did Cash address Kei Igawa during the last Q&A post? Can’t remember. I’d be highly interested in what he thinks of the K-Man.
Wow, that was hilarious!
Igawa is terrible. I hope to a higher power that no Yankee starter gets hurt.
I saw Igawa throw against Boston last yr in the game that Karstens got hurt at. I was real low so I had a good view of his mechanics and his stuff. He worked down that game, and missed a ton of bats. I remember him K’ing Manny on a mean slider that disappeared underneath his hands. To say he’s just “no good” is incorrect I think. The raw stuff is there. If Frank Castillo can win 12 games for the Jays in the late 90’s, I find it hard to believe that a pitcher like Igawa can’t fix whatever causes his problems. Its certainly not impossible.
haha thanks pete, at least he is worse than me.
this is what pisses me off about him he really isn’t terrible ! his location just sucks. I agree w/ the writer of this breakdown, it sounds exactly what Philip Hughes was going through last season when his arm couldn’t catch up w/ his stride and it took awhile to fix that. My problem is why isn’t the Yankees FO doing anything about it, Cashman you read this blog don’t you think that breakdown makes somesense
eric he struck out Manny ! he struck out Ortiz ! and even Barry Bonds ! but until he gets it or someone does that’s all he’ll ever be a guy that had potential but ended up being a bust.
A lot of people said the same about Ramiro Mendoza. He sucked as a started but when we put him in the pen it worked out pretty good in middle relief.
Maybe that’s where Igawa will end up, taking over for Joba when he hits the rotation.
Stranger things can happen. Just saying let’s keep our options open.
I dunno the guy wrecks shop down at AAA… how can he be so good against AAA players and so miserable against MLB players?
Seems like it’s all mental with him. He doesn’t trust his stuff and nibbles, and when he gets in trouble trying the new approach he reverts to what brought him success in Japan and gets drilled.
igawa is a piece of garbage. no matter how you look at him in the end he will end up in the trashcan where he belongs.
LoL, pete.
How much longer do you think the Yankees will pretend there’s something there before they give up?
Well if Cashman reads this blog, maybe he’ll be able to use that video analysis of Igawa.
Igawa was the king of strikeouts in Japan. From Igawa’s solid performance in the minors, is that all he can muster to be? A dominant minor league starter?
We’re paying way too much money to give up on him— I say we break him down and build him back up!
Pete, you’re a genius.
Baseball doesn’t need to be complicated! igawa sucks nuff said, Even though inside i want him to do good!
“What is wrong with Kei Igawa?”
C’mon, that’s an easy one.
…EVERYTHING.
No arguments from me about him having some work to do, but his problem has always been that in japan he had success pitching up in the zone. In the majors if you do that you get shelled. In his first start in AAA this yr his focus was on keeping the ball down. Here are the results.
http://mvn.com/milb-yankees/2008/04/04/minor-league-recap-43/
He is a long way from ready for NY but if he can consistently pitch down in the zone then he has some value. His strike out numbers alone should tell you that.
seriously pete, I think you are a better starter than he is.
Some more reading for you
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19453258&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=416049&rfi=6
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19453256&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=416049&rfi=6
As this points out, it isnt that Igawa isnt good that we are picking on, it is that he cost so much to get. We all hate Pavano because he is a brat. we resent the money he makes, because, since it is guaranteed, he makes no attempt to earn it.
As Pete has said many many times Igawa is a nice guy. And, unlike Pavano, he wants to pitch. And when he pitches he shows some guts. But everyone is mad at the Yanks for spending so much on him. Not his fault.
All I’m saying is, he was perfect in his first start of the season. Lets pretend he doesn’t get paid millions and root for him to keep it going. If Horne had those numbers in his first start you’d all be calling for Moose to be cut by now to open up a spot in NY.
He isn’t ready to take the ball in NY yet, but he will be given it at some point this yr so lets get behind him instead of trying to jump on the ‘lets get a cheap laugh at the expense of an easy target’ bandwagon.
Eating your own at the first sign of failure is the worst trait of our fanbase. We need to support our team more when they struggle, not less. This NY tough love, ‘I bought the ticket I’ve got a right to boo anyone who doesn’t strike out the side’ stuff is just an excuse for people to act like bullying prats in public and have those around applaud them. I don’t. These guys have enough motivation, they dont need this sort of thing.
Ever wonder why the guys on the bench keep clapping for the starters even when they get hammered?
Awesome how the Igawa bashing changes people’s reality (yeah a baseball writer who doesn’t seem to be in the greatest shape could throw six perfect innings at AAA). See Donnie Collins commentary
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19453256&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=416049&rfi=8
Pete – You sure don’t beat around the bush.
Sad to say, because from what I’ve read he seems to be a good guy who really tries, this may just be the case. I remember a few weeks ago, SJ44 – who seems to know whereof he speaks – commented that some of the Yankee coaches were astounded by his poor mechanics when they first saw him. He obviously can cut it in Japan, but as we have discussed it’s a different brand of baseball, with better players.
He can clearly pitch in AAA. However, I’ve lost my faith in him for the big club. I’ll still root for him, of course, but I’d be leary of putting him on the roster.
Now, off to the vineyards.
I saw Igawa last Thursday and he was brilliant! Line was: 6.0 0 0 0 0 7. I assume due to the cold weather, manager Dave Miley chose not to send him out for the 7th as his pitch count was only at 60 (44 strikes).
Kei Igawa is pretty good IMO, he just lacks control, which I guess is very vital, but he must work on it…he has good potential.
anti-mussina – have you ever sought psychiactric help?
http://www.ppbh.org/index.html
You have serious anger issues (amoung many others).
Why not give it as try and get back to us in… oh…. say a year or 2.
Old yanks fan: can we dub you the official papa bear of the blog? You seem so caring
I’m not sure why people think Igawa can help in the bullpen. If you can’t consistently throw strikes and keep the ball down, your stuff gets hit regardless of what inning you take the mound.
OK…so here is a crazy thought…..Alby is the man who comes in and takes Joba’s current spot when Joba moves to the rotation…..this kicks either Moose or IPK to the pen and one of them ( hopefully Moose is in the pen, because I still think that IPK can turn it around and he is just a wee bit younger than Gramps, I mean, Moose ) comes into the rotation when one of our 5 starters goes on the DL. I don’t care what Igawa does in AAA. He has shown that he is a AAAA pitcher,….dominates AAA and stinks REAL BAD in the Big Show. I am sure that Pete can tell us about all of the minor league arms that show promise of one day making it in the majors. You show me one person that thinks Igawa can make it, and I’ll show you a complete moron. ( hint…likely this will be the same person )…You show my one NYY fan that believes it will be anything but a tragedy if Igawa is ever handed the ball to win a “key game” for the Yankees and again, the word Moron will be thrown about. If the Yankees think that he can make it in the majors, then TRADE HIM. Let the Yankees find a team that could benefit from a AAAA starter in the NL…like say, maybe, ummm….ANYBODY ! Better yet, put Pavano, Igawa, Farnsworth and Hawkins in a deal to get a REAL MLB #4 starter and you have my vote….that is all….I am out !
You KNEW I was gonna say it….
Counting this spring:
Igawa with shades, 7.1IP 13H 10ER 6K 7BB 1HBP
Igawa without shades 15.0IP 7H 0ER 19K 4BB…
Maybe its more simple than you think…
Igawa lacks consistency. Mechanics aside, a percentage of his problems lie between his ears.
Dave Eiland and Nardi Contreras saw enough of him in 2007 and spring training of this year to fix his flaws.
He’s running out of time.
Igawa got hitters out in Japan on the high strike. Here they crush it for a homerun.
To mark his return, Mike Mussina wrote on a dry-erase board at his locker: “Joe’s back! Hide the chicken wings.â€
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/07/sports/baseball/07yankees.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin
Clear cut and amusing take from Pete. Kei’s consistent inconsistency is what gives small flickers of hope and wild rides of frustration. The posting fee will never be recovered but he’s still under contract for 3 years at a low amount so they need to see if they can get something from him whether that be in a pitching role or as a trade chip somewhere down the road. Either way, too soon to give up on him.
I love Moose’s dry erase daily musings. They should become a daily feature on someones blog.
Who does Pete Abraham hate more?
Igawa or Farnsworth or Pavano?
Aren’t writers supposed to be objective?
Kei Igawa, from what I understand, was a good player in Japan. That does not always translate into MLB success, and hindsight tells us that the Yankees should have left Igawa alone, where he could thrive away from us. This hurts him and the Yanks.
Send him home. Swallow the loss.
Send Pavano to Japan, though it’s too late to absorb that one.
Send Pedro to Japan. Nah, it’s too late.
I’m with those who hope that Igawa can find a way to fix the inconsistency problem. We’ve seen him pitch effectively in the majors, in the minors, and in Japan. Therefore he is hardly a piece of garbage.
Maybe Joe is onto something with regard to the junk food.
See whathappened to Derrick Rose the Memphis bball star. Quote from the AP. He missed practive yesterday with a stomach ailment
“He eats Gummy Bears and Starburst for breakfast, and Twizzlers and Honey Buns for dinner. That’s why his stomach hurts,” fellow guard Chris Douglas-Roberts said. “We tell Derrick the whole year, ‘Stop eating so many Gummy Bears and Sour Straws.’ But he can’t. … Nobody eats Gummy Bears more than him.”
Gayle -
That’s hysterical! Thanks for the morning giggle.
(Left unattended, I think my daughter could give him a run for his money on the gummy bears, though!)
Anyone ever go to Igawa’s website? I never knew it existed until I was browsing the interweb for some lovely pictures of his open-mouthed visage. Wonder if the guy who made the site is the same guy Kei beaned during that ST bullpen session.
But, you know the old theory, “Lefties get by with less!” and “Lefties take longer to come around”, but I’m with Pete on this guy…HE STINKS! Also, who were the scouts etc. etc. who said, “WE GOT TO GET THIS GUY!” I hope it wasn’t, “We got to get somebody cause we missed out on Dice-K!” If that is true, it was a double-mistake! What did/does Bobby Valentine say about this guy?
Well Pete, guess that’s why you are a writer/reporter and not a scout. Scouts don’t discuss if a guy stinks they discuss why.
Mike:
I don’t hate any players. Just readers who don’t get sarcasm.
I think management is well aware of Igawa’s mechanical flaws. Most of the comments regarding him usually include some mention of the work he has done/is doing on his pitching motion. Maybe he is uncoachable ? Hopefully he will wake up one day, have a momment of clarity, change his ways, and become a middle of the rotation starter…
Best,
Ross
.. somewhere else. After the Yanks deal him he’ll do some pitching again.
Maybe the Yankees hitting woes can be traced back to Joe G’s ban on junk food. Hey, you never know.
an interesting article on Cashman’s plan with Joba:
The Joba Strategy Story Link
Brian – Iggy did NOT cost too much. That is the prime reason Cashman got him. What does a #4 or #5 cost these days? Ted Lilly got 4/$40 for a 4.47 career ERA (just a shade better then dead average).
When you consider the Tax savings on Iggy, his contract would be the same as if we signed someone for 5/$38.5m, or $7.7m/yr. So if he a decent #5, we are fine. If he turned into a #4, it’s a bonus. This is a LHP who won the CY in Japan, and beat Dice-K in Ks 3 years.
He’s been a disappointment, but in Japan, he was 85-90% as good as Dice-K, but he cost us less then 1/2 of what Dice-K cost the Sox. Good GM moves are those where the odds are in your favor, and they were here. Would you expect the 3rd or 2nd best pitcher in Japan to be at least a decent #5 here? That’s not a crazy bet, is it?
But just because the odds are in your favor, doesn’t mean the deal works out all the time…. just 50% of the time, or better.
Cashman bashers will kick Cashman for Iggy, Contraras and Pavano. Pavano had 3 other offers, including one from the Sox. He signed for us for LESS then he was offered elsewhere. For Contraras, the Sox bought EVERY HOTEL room to try to keep the Yankees from getting him. Iggy, in terms of bang-for-the-buck, was a better deal then Dice-K.
All 3 of those deals went south, but at the time, the odds on all of them were favorable.
You can NOT judge a deal on how it turns out.
If you do, then you are assuming GMs can see the future.
You must SEPARATE from OUTCOME.
Good deals are those where the odds are favorable AT THE TIME OF THE DEAL. But nobody knows how a deal will turn out.
Old Yanks Fan,
Great post on looking at Igawa. I was excited when they signed him, though I thought he’d be a Major League player, though I’m no scout. I bet most Yankee fans at the time thought so too at the time.
The same goes for the Pavano signing. I was ecstatic when they signed him. Nostradamus, nor Dionne Warwick and the pyschic friends network could’ve predicted the way that signing turned out.
i dont understand what you just said OldFan. So if cashman trades for prospects and they become studs, he shouldn’t be praised cause he didnt really know how the deal will turn out.
Iggy has the stuff fellas. All he needs is to pitch lower in the zone. Guys who can get batters to swing and miss alot tend to have good stuff. People tend to forget the cultural obstacles these players have when they come over from Japan. I live in Boston and they talk about it alot with Dice-K. Dice-K wasn’t all that consistent for the Sox last year. He was great at times, and dead awful in others. They talk about how Japanese pitchers don’t attack hitters with the fastball. They tend to try to finese them to death. Let’s give Iggy a little time to see if he can get acclimated to the American game & culture. Plus, the better he performs, even in the minors, the more someone will be willing to give up for him. Some NL team would love a cost effective Japanese marketing tool. Especially a left handed one. SD anyone?