Soggy night, soggy offense
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 10, 2008 
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I thought Joe Girardi’s idea of leaving Ian Kennedy in the bullpen to start the game was a good one. It was raining pretty hard in the second and third inning and the game could well have been postponed.
His mistake was leaving Kyle Farnsworth in for a second inning. Joe Torre learned quickly that Farnsworth can’t be trusted to get more than three outs. Farnsworth’s last multi-inning appearance was on June 6, 2006.
So what happened tonight? His first pitch in the fifth inning was a room-service fastball that John Buck crushed to center. Then with two outs and two on, Farnsworth left an 0-2 slider up and Jose Guillen drove it into center field to give KC a 2-0 lead.
A much bigger issue is the offense. The Yankees are 11 of 66 with runners in scoring position and have scored only 25 runs. Only the Tigers (21) have fewer runs in the American League.
The last time the Yankees scored this few runs over the first nine games was in 1989. That team went on to lose 87 games and finish in fifth place.
“I don’t think our approach is bad, we’re just not getting the results,†Girardi said.
With Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada out, there aren’t many options in terms of changing the lineup. They sent Shelley Duncan out a day before they’re going to face a lefty. Sure, Morgan Ensberg can replace Giambi for a night. But the Yankees need more than that right now.
It’s no time to panic. But at some point soon the Yankees need to get something going. Girardi’s dream job has been a nightmare to this point with the injuries, bad weather and total lack of energy from his hitters.
horrible move to send down shelley the day before we face a lefty. why not get rid of the useless betemit?
You have to wonder how much the weather influences the hitters.
Right now I’m just hoping Saturday’s not rained out or I will be pretty upset.
I hear you Pete, the offense will come around very soon. The April schedule is pretty tough, as SJ said, treading water is what they need to do this month.
It’s weird enough to have so many pitchers in the bullpen pitching so well, but to have the offense scoring less than 3 runs a game…?
It’s like the Twilight Zone Yankees…
cashman refuses to give up on betemit!
This team lacks energy, yet they got rid of the player that gives them that. WTF??? They should have got rid of Betemit!!!!
lets not go nuts pete. its only 9 games in… the pitching has been very good. the bats will eventually come around. nobody is really hitting the cover off the ball in the east.
Too early to panic, but Cashman needs to finally cut bait on some of these guys. Giambi becomes a bigger albatross every night. Try and convince yourself all you want Cash, but the Giambi of old isn’t going to show up. Eat the money, admit it was a disaster and let him go. Put Matsui in the DH spot full-time. Find a buyer for Damon, plenty of teams are looking for someone like him. The Yanks have ARod, Matsui, Jeter, Abreu, Cano, Posada, they’ll get healthy and they’ll hit. What this team needs, as it has for years, are role players who can get the timely hit and field there positions. Find a real left fielder and a first baseman.
Duncan is the only one w/ an option on his contract that’s the only reason he was sent down. He will be back as soon as Jetes returns so calm down. As for Betemit he can play the infield at multiple positions while Shelley is a good OF and ok 1B..lets not go crazy here.
Couple of things:
I believe Duncan has to be down at least 10 days before he gets recalled unless someone goes on the DL (I think that is the rule).
Girardi I guess now can say he tried Farnsworth for 2 innings in a row it didnt work out so we move on. I rather it happen now then later on.
LaTroy Hawkins went up again in my book not for something he did on the field but what he did of. I read in the Times that he took his mother and nephew to the Negro Baseball Hall of Fame today and always made it a point to meet up with Buck O’Neil when he came into town while O’Neil was still alive. Based on this, what he did for Patterson and his wanting to honor Clemente by wearing #21 Yankees fans and Paul O’Neil should be honored that this is the kind of guy who is wearing that number.
Also, who would have thought:
Joe Torre – Joe Giradi – Same great team, same slow start.
Maybe it isn’t the manager after all.
Every time the team struggles one player has to become the object of everyone’s scorn.
Last year it was Mientkiewicz this year it seems that Betemit is the leading candidate for that glorious role.
It’s funny how everyone gets fixated on complementary players – on the players who aren’t even being counted on to carry the team in the first place.
With Betemit its’ even worse – he’s not even a starter. Yet he’s the focus for why the offense isn’t struggling?
Has he been bad – sure. But he’s far from alone in that category.
They are not hitting as a team. It’s nearly top to bottom.
To take make Betemit – a backup infielder – the scape goat for this is absurd.
David Ortiz right now is hitting 0.091 with 1 HR and 3 RBI’s. He has a .182 slugging percentage.
People thought that Chris Woodward, Nick Green, or Cody Ransom should make the team over betemit out of spring training.
In AAA Woodward is hitting .150, Green is hitting .167 and Ransom .192.
Getting rid of Betemit isn’t going to change anything. It’s not going to make the rest of the line up suddenly start to hit. Nor is the player they’d replace Betemit going to make any major impact unless they can suddenly convince the cardinals to take Betemit for Pujols.
ARod carried the offense when it struggled last year. There was no way he was going to repeat what he did in April last year 2 seasons in a row.
But their pitching is in much better shape and they’ll weather this.
There’s no need to heap all the blame on a backup infielder. It’s not his fault Jeter and Posada are hurt and the rest of the line up is struggling.
Deja Vu.
We will survive
the Grape Fruit League Champions recieved some bad news
—————————-
Rays’ starter Matt Garza has landed on the disabled list because of a nerve injury to his pitching arm, according to the St. Petersburg Times.
Tampa had no knowledge of the injury, but Garza admitted that it surfaced on occasion last season (in Minnesota) as he pitched through it.
“This time it was just real bad,” Garza said. “I knew something was up.”
Brandon they alsolput CLiff Floyd on the DL with knee surgery of course that ha to happen after he clobbered the HR against us last week lol
“Too early to panic, but Cashman needs to finally cut bait on some of these guys. Giambi becomes a bigger albatross every night.”
Could not agree more. Would love to see Giambi and his .056 average anywhere but this team.
Duncan can’t come back for 10 days unless someone hits the DL. Them’s the rules. Frankly letting Shelly get some swings in AAA isn’t a bad thing – he wasn’t getting any with NY. The Borderline Criminal will be back after time served with good behavior.
Will be nice to play baseball in at least 50 degree weather one of these days. And the weather in KC tomorrow is supposed to be worse than today – would be nice if they didn’t expect their fans to come out in a tornado and just called the game in advance so the Yanks could fly back east rather than get trapped there by T-storms. Pete, better wear red shoes tomorrow – I don’t think you’ll be in Kansas City anymore! Might be plenty green on the flight out though. Safe trip!
alot of players have mysterious injuries this year ..IDK what it is but it’s weird
Everything on the offensive side just looks off.
Hopefully, the sight of the Red Sox will shake us out of our slumber.
If we can’t take series from the KC’s and Tampa’s of the world, then we’re in a heap of trouble.
Girardi’s got a honeymoon period with most of us. We’re used to the slow starts. It’s been the pattern of the past few years.
I just would like to see this team come out of the gate with a little fire once in awhile.
They all dull and uninspired at times.
And yes, blame the weather.
But the weather hasn’t seemed to make the opposing teams bats go limp, has it?
I wasn’t watching the game tonight but to hear some of the descriptions of the weather all I could think of was that the game was being run by Carl the groundskeeper – “I don’t think the really hard stuff will start coming down for awhile yet…I’d keep playing”.
thunderstorms seem to follow us this year. Maybe it’s testing the team’s resolve
G-Love -
Actually the opposing teams haven’t been killing it either – remember we’re 4-5 while scoring so little.
Hey CB, why are you blaming me for last year’s slow start. I want back in the Bronx. The Yankees need Dougie.
you look at too many pitches Dougie
Peter again with the stupid post.. A nightmare job, 4 and 5 and 153 games to go….give it a rest, I thought yu were a sabermetrics guy and a expert!!!!!!
What are the odds Cano will hit under 200? How bout Giambi(I do hate) hitting 125? How about Damon 205? Get my point.. I do dispise Kyle, I say Girardi should give him a few more outings if he is the same, trade him to the NL, get a bag of balls or whatever…
Kennedy needs to stop b=nibbling and throw strikes, Bruney looks much better this yr. and Traber looks decent.
I cannot believe how impatient baseball writers and fans are, after 9 games they forget everything there eyse have told them and PANIC… This offense last yr. scored 960+ runs the 3rd most in Yankee history. Yes Posada will not duplicate what he did last yr. and neither will Alex so subtract 40 RBI’s but will Cano improve? WIll Melky? Will Abreu have more then 100 RBI’s? WIll Damon get back to typical Damon or is he on the slide down, we shall see but that still equals over 800+ runs, they are on pace for about 500 and change runs, get my point???
“I just would like to see this team come out of the gate with a little fire once in awhile.”
That’s one of the great ironies of this season.
People really believed that Torre was just too laid back, didn’t care, was too soft, etc., etc.
Girardi though – he was completely different. A no nonsense guy, would base everything on competition, had a lot of the proverbial fire in the belly etc., etc.
Despite all that’s changed one thing hasn’t – it’s not the manager.
It never has been. Never will be. It’s the players. That’s what’s so funny with the pent up anger so many people have for Torre.
Substitute Girardi – team doesn’t really seem to be playing to much different than it did at the start of last season or in the playoffs.
Biggest different – this year there’s far fewer injuries and them have a much better pen.
Baseball’s not like football – it’s a game in which random chance has a large effect.
Getting teams to try to be “inspired” doesn’t change that.
It only makes them more tense and try too hard to hit the ball.
I think we’ve seen a lot of that recently.
There’s nothing a manager can do about that. The manager just doesn’t have that much impact on the game and has far less than coaches do most other team sports.
CB but lets be honest I doubt we are 4 – 5 if Torre is the manager this year, remember the 2 games we took from Toronto, the 1 game we got from Tampa instead od 2 – 7 or 1 – 8 we’re 4 – 5. I can live w/ that right now.
I hate Kyle Farnsworth.
CB good posts…
Betemit who I am not in love with is not the problem no more then Sojo was the problem in 2001……
The problem is cano, giambi, damon, are not hitting at all.
Arod is playing decent, matsui preety good, molina above what can be expected and that is the good news offensively.
I will panic in 31 more games, but there pen is obviously better and they have more answers in the minors for the pen…That is a big plus, maybe the Yanks will only score 850 runs this yr., then they will have to pitch better….
Brandon I completely disagree. You could be the manager of this team and they’d be 4-5.
If the team is going to collectively go into a slump there’s not a lot the guy on the bench can do.
In particular, its way too early for issues like bull pen management, etc. to be a real factor. It’s just too early.
Joe Torre did the same thing with Billingsley last week that Girardi did tonight with Kennedy.
The amount of impact that a manager has on a baseball game is wildly overstated IMO. It’s nowhere close to the type of impact that a head coach (or even a coordinator) has in the NFL or even a basketball coach in the NBA.
Stuart – you comparison with Sojo is right on the mark. I almost forgot about that.
People used to kill Sojo. He didn’t even play much.
Sojo, Cairo, Betemit – yankee fans really seem to get fixated on heaping blame on the backup infielder.
It’s just odd that Giambi is hitting 0.067 and cano’s hitting .194 and it’s Betemit that has to go?
Betemit fits in quite well right now – compared to his career numbers he’s under performing about as much as the rest of the team is.
CB you think we consecutively bunt the ball vs Toronto w/ Torre here ? or how about when he brought Joba in the 7th vs Tampa. I understand what you mean but the game plan has been somewhat changed
Brandon it’s not about individual moves. You can always nitpick those over 9 games.
Do you think Torre would have played Matsui in left today? I have no idea.
Are you confident that Girardi would have turned around the ship last year when they used 28 different starting pitchers. Who knows?
Last year this team was in truly dire straights because of the extensive injuries, lack of depth and complete shut down of the offense other than ARod.
But here’s what makes the comparison interesting. Most people agree that Torre an Girardi are near 180 degree opposites as managers at nearly every level – style, strategy, preparedness, etc.
People have for the past several year largely attributed the yanks slow starts to Torre’s hands off approach – being out of shape, lacking fire, etc…
Yet here we are with the same kind of start that they’ve had for the past several years.
They have more talent this year and much better pitching. Yet they are still off to a very cold start.
At what point do yo say well the manager’s are completely different but the starts by the team are fairly similar.
Maybe it wasn’t the manager then and it’s not the manager now.
CB,
You’re right on. I was chief amongst those who thought Torre treated the Spring like summer camp and these guys were not prepared to play.
Now that they’ve been through the “militaristic” camp of Girardi, they still don’t look prepared to play.
With one exception. I think the bullpen looks really good this year and I’ll give Wang props for coming strong out of the gate.
However, the problem of the well paid veterans seemingly thinking their reputations alone equal 6 runs a game is showing.
We saw it at times last year when the offense had that “someone in this monster lineup will bail us out” look and everyone was having tense bad at bats. It felt like everyone was looking in the on deck circle for the next guy to do it.
I don’t think this is going to be a season long funk, I just hate that we stumble like this.
It’s almost as if some of these guys have to play themselves into caring. Like they need a crisis to get themselves going. That’s a bit disturbing if it’s true. Hopefully, I’m wrong.
I was very hard on Cano and Abreu last season and I’m glad Abreu has shown some stroke early.
Cano, on the other hand, is a complete mystery to me. I’ll never understand that guy. He can go from looking like a batting champ to a batting chump in a blink sometimes.
The hits will start falling for him, but I wonder what it is about April he and his offensive approach don’t like. Next season let’s leave him in Tampa for April and bring him up May 1st.
Since Dan Johnson was DFA by the A’s, what do you think the chances are of acquiring him? Cashman wanted him since 2006, and there were talks about trading for him during the off season. Since he was DFA, this is a good chance of getting him for practically nothing.
Girardi
Until we’re 21 and 29
I will not get tense
“His mistake was leaving Kyle Farnsworth in for a second inning. Joe Torre learned quickly that Farnsworth can’t be trusted to get more than three outs.”
I totally agree. But I would take it one step more and also say that Farnsworth can’t even be trusted to get the first three outs. He needs to be cut or traded for anything at this point. I know he makes a boatload of money, but his spot could be used for the necessary long reliever whether it’s Rasner or Igawa. I know those guys aren’t great either, but Farnsworth is completely useless. At least those guys could eat up some innings. Well, Rasner can. Or heck, forget the long man, get Albaladejo or Britton or Edwar up here already. At least there’s more upside in giving them a shot rather than wasting away with every inning Kyle gets to pitch.
“Girardi’s dream job has been a nightmare to this point with the injuries, bad weather and total lack of energy from his hitters.”
I always hate when people confuse bad performance with lack of effort or energy. Can you actually give me concrete examples of this “total” lack of energy? And you’re using the word “total” so I assume there are tons of examples of this, in your mind at least. What, did Jose Molina lack energy when he struck out to end the game? I don’t think so. Does Giambi lack energy or effort with his zillions of popouts and flyout? I wouldn’t say so. That expression always annoys me. They are trying hard, but the results aren’t there yet. That doesn’t mean they lack energy.
“It’s almost as if some of these guys have to play themselves into caring. ”
I think it’s actually the opposite. There are very few things that can explain team wide slumps.
There’s no way a uniform sense of not caring is at play. Do you think it’s plausible that ARod doesn’t care? Jeter? Pettite? Matsui?
These are some of the most driven people on the planet. So even if you want to say that about Cano (which I personally don’t believe at all) it’s not a general explanation.
Baseball is a strange game. There’s no one reason for anything.
But what I do think happens to this team is that they collectively try to hard – I think at times they press and get into a bad cycle.
They don’t get hits, they press more, guys who were hitting feel responsible for carrying the load and press worse, etc.
I think that’s happens with them at times because expectations are so unbelievably high all the time.
The mantra that is now widely accepted with this team was that anything less than a world series championship is a failure.
That’s not the way it was before – even in the 1970′s when they were winning.
That’s relatively new.
So one of the reasons why i think cano swings so wildly is because he’s pressing. That’s how he presses the issue.
That what’s happened to them in the playoff offensively since 2004, IMO.
Right now there’s no magic to why there not hitting. It’s just a combination of factors.
Mostly its just random chance – teams go through slumps. But if you happen to go through that slump during the beginning of the season or the playoffs everything gets magnified 1000 fold and in turn the player try harder, then press, etc.
That’s when it snowballs. That’s what happened in the first half of last year (pitching was terrible, offense felt it had to make up for it, started pressing, got into bad hitting habits, etc.)
Right now I do think issues like the weather are important factors.
They need to avoid getting into that cycle of pressing now.
Yes, exactly!
Lots of odd things can happen in a small number of games. The offense will find its way soon enough. And even though the offense is largely to blame for the 4-5 start, I’m still much more worried about the pitching actually.
Girardi’s belief that he can make Kyle Farnsworthless into a dependable reliever is an example of being waist deep in the big muddy.
My biggest concern is not the offense but getting starters other than those with the initials CMW to go at least 7 innings so our bullpen isn’t a complete shambles in 3 months. We call that 2007 Seattle Marineritis otherwise known as the Jeff Weaver effect.
Maybe our players are suffering from lacking of ice cream and candy.
Can we stop with everything Joe Girardi does being an indictment of what Joe Torre did.
There are many more similarities than differences in these 2 guys. Torre did the same thing this year with starting a reliever. Didn’t get Torre a win that night either.
Success is more about the players than the manager.
So what if Farsworth hadn’t given up the two runs? Would it have mattered? The offense scored zero runs. Zero.
How do you jump start a slumping offense? Is there anything anyone can do besides wait?
I did think it was a complete blunder for Joe not to start Ian Kennedy last night. Joe and Trey Hillman were looking at the same weather report, and Trey kept his guy in. Now, some bullpen guys are spent for tonight. At least the damage was lessened by getting Kennedy back out there.
Bruney, Traber and, yes, Farnsworth, kept us in that ballgame, though. Again, our bats take too long to show up in the beginning of the season. Didn’t we use to light up Grienke every time we saw him before?
Our bats need to be ready on Day One…..
“So what if Farsworth hadn’t given up the two runs? Would it have mattered? The offense scored zero runs. Zero.”
At least someone gets it. Thanks Elizabeth. This was the same situation last season. The Yankees would score 100 runs in 3 games, and then they would get 1-hit in each of the next 3. You can’t blame that on pitching.
Yeah, the Yankees scored almost 1000 runs last season, but the runs were scored pretty lopsided. It wasn’t a continuous 6ish runs a game… it would be more like… 10 one game, 15 another, 16 another, and then 0, 1, 0.
It doesn’t matter how great or terrible your pitching is, you can’t win games if you don’t score runs.
RE Farnsworth….do the Yankees need a one inning pitcher? The track record is becoming clearer. Very dissapointing to the the fellow blow games with reasonable chances to win them…even if the scoring production is low.
Pete’s note about it being 19 seasons since the Yankees scored this few runs is telling. This kind of lousy offensive performance from so many good hitters is a fluke. 11 for 66 with RISP is a fluke. Flukes correct themselves over the span of the season. We will see plenty of offense from this team.
“I did think it was a complete blunder for Joe not to start Ian Kennedy last night. Joe and Trey Hillman were looking at the same weather report, and Trey kept his guy in. Now, some bullpen guys are spent for tonight. At least the damage was lessened by getting Kennedy back out there.
Bruney, Traber and, yes, Farnsworth, kept us in that ballgame, though. Again, our bats take too long to show up in the beginning of the season. Didn’t we use to light up Grienke every time we saw him before?
Our bats need to be ready on Day One…..”
I agreed with Girardi’s move, and disagree with the Royals’. I would not be surprised if Greinke is absolutely horrible in his next outing (several walks and a couple HRs).
Also, this Greinke is not your old Greinke. He took a year off to deal with his depression/anxiety, was a bullpen guy then a starter last year. He ended last year with an ERA under 4. Not bad for an AL pitcher.
some guys handle miserable weather better than others, if you get five or six who don’t handle it well,you get the yankees.
i know it’s hindsight, but i’m not sold on the way Girardi ran the pitching in last night’s game. I think a lot of the heat he got from the Josh Johnson incident 2 years ago was evident in his cautiousness with Kennedy.
I think it was a blow to Kennedy’s confidence to have to sit around and then show up in the 6th, behind by 2.
Meanwhile, it may have even been a confidence boost to Grienke. As a starter, the guy knew he would be facing a collage of relief pitchers for the first few innings.
Worst case scenario if Kennedy starts? A delay after the 1st or 2nd inning, causing him not to return and a collage of relief pitchers gets thru the remainder of the game.
In the end, you need to score runs to win. But I still don’t agree with how the pitching was run, even if it wasn’t the sole cause of the loss.
1) By the end of the season, Giambi, if healthy, will have a .400 OBP, a .250-.270 BA, 25+ HR’s and close to 100 RBIs. Don’t worry about him. He was in the midst of finding his stroke before the groin injury. He’ll recover it soon enough
2) Cano is Cano. A great hitter, in spite of a defiant lack of plate discipline. Every year I hope he develops it; every year he disappoints me. As a consequence, he prolongs his own slumps by trying to hack his way out them. Notice that Giambi, in contrast, at least walks when he’s slumping. Still Cano will hit well over .300 by the end of the year. He just doesn’t belong in the 2 hole, not right now anyway.
3) Girardi should move Abreu in the 2 hole and either move Alex up to the third slot or put Matsui there, until Jeter returns.
4) Betemit is what he is– a utility player. His shortcoming are only more pronounced at the moment because the Yankees aren’t hitting and because there are two or more reserves sap the lineup at the moment with both Jeter and Posada on the bench. Betemit may not get the clutch hit Cairo once did but he compensates with his power.
5) The only player I worry about is Damon. Not only did he start poorly last season, but his entire season was sub-par. Which raises the question whether his skills have begun to decline. I’m still betting Damon will be a productive player this year. As long as Yankee fans don’t expect him to equal the player he was for the Sux. Samson Damon perished when King George cut off his hair.
For all Cashman’s talk about building teams from the farm system, the 2008 Yankess are still a team weighed down by decisions to sign veterans past their prime. Damon isn’t reaching base, and Giambi isn’t protecting A-Rod. Abreu has the least power of just about any #3 hitter in the bigs. Throw in Jeter’s woes and the top of the order is quite dysfunctional.
Bruney looked good. Still, the list of PYDNWIBS (Pitchers You Do Not Want In Big Spots) seems to be growing, not shrinking:
Farnsworth
Mussina
Kennedy (Moose Jr.)
Does anybody feel physical pain watching Kennedy pitch? It’s like the guy’s absolutely terrified of hitters putting bats to his pitches.
It’s only a matter of time before Traber and Hawkins make that list. I’d put Hawkins there already. If Hughes finds his way on the list, we are in for an ugly season.
Those who have called the pitching good so far (this includes Girardi) are missing an important point. It’s not about how many or how few runs you give up. Sure, the Yankee pitchers haven’t given up a ton of runs, but they also haven’t locked teams down when they needed to. Only Wang, Joba and Mo have done that for a total of two games. That’s it.
Pitching well means pitching to win and the team isn’t pitching to win nearly enough.
It seems that our hitters are just not having good at bats. We seem to always be hitting from behind in the count…letting good pitches go and swinging at balls out of the strike zone in pitchers counts.
On the reverse side, our pitchers have been solid but we always seem to go three balls in the majority of the counts.
I have a few hypotheses about what’s going on with the Yankee’s offense posted over at my blog.
http://schteeve.wordpress.com/.....se-stupid/
Check it out.