Game 11: Yankees at Red Sox
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 11, 2008 
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YANKEES
Cabrera CF
Cano 2B
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui LF
Posada DH
Giambi 1B
Molina C
Gonzalez SS
Wang RHP (2-0, 1.38)
RED SOX
Crisp CF
Pedroia 2B
Ortiz DH
Ramirez LF
Youkilis 3B
Drew RF
Varitek C
Casey 1B
Lugo SS
Buchholz RHP (0-1, 5.40)
Notes: It’s overcast here at Fenway but no rain at the moment. The weather is said to be dicey this weekend. … The Red Sox crammed 1,000 more seats into beloved Fenway Park and the place now holds just under 40,000. … Sounds like Jeter will miss this series. If he plays, it would be Sunday. … Posada played catch today and there’s a chance he could catch this weekend. … Damon is just getting a day off. … A bit of a surprise as Crisp starts in place of Ellsbury for Boston. … Ramirez is 13 of 22 with two homers against Wang. Ortiz (15 of 30, 2 HRs) owns him, too. The Wanger will need to use more sliders and changeups. Look for the change against the lefties especially. … The Yankees are facing Buchholz for the first time.
Back later.
UPDATE, 6:17 p.m.: The tarp is on the field. No word on whether the game will start on time. … Jeter didn’t do anything beyond playing catch. Posada threw and said he felt better. … Cashman said that Alan Horne has a small biceps tear and will probably only miss one start.
UPDATE, 6:26 p.m.: The tarp is now coming off.
UPDATE, 7:04 p.m.: This is strange, they’re going to start the game in the rain.
UPDATE, 7:07 p.m.: 49 degrees and raining at first pitch.
UPDATE, 8:01 p.m.: Wow, great start for CMW. 30 pitches/21 strikes, nine up and nine down. He’s working the inner half of the plate well and keeping the Sox hitters off balance. Buchholz is pitching well, too.
UPDATE, 8:39 p.m.: Bobby Abreu’s defense cost Wang his no-hitter as he fanned on J.D. Drew’s fly to deep right and it landed in the bullpen. Now it’s 1-1. It wasn’t a routine play, but it’s a play that should have been made.
Wang has thrown only 49 pitches in five innings.
UPDATE, 9:50 p.m.: Nobody warming up. With Wang at only 79 pitches, why would there be?
Great! the worthless Damon isn’t playing!
I was at the game last year that Wang pitched at Yankee Stadium and it was a beautiful pitched game by him he kept them off kilter all night. Not sure what pitches he used as I am not that knowledgeable to be able to tell when sitting in the stadium to me that is the blueprint for him.
Let’s Go Yankees!!!!!!!
Time to set the tone and momentum that should last the entire year in this series!!
I think Damon needs a day as well……maybe more…..
I dont care who plays aslong as they win. Thank you!
the question is will we score runs on LAPTOP
Traber is liekly to get the call against Ortiz this weekend sometime. Welcome to the rivalry Billy!
First time they are facing Buchholz. This is going to be a real challenge. We know how they’ve done in the past against pitchers they haven’t seen.
And this pitcher they haven’t seen is extremely talented (unfortunately).
That change up of his is just devastating. They are going to have to be very patient.
WE ARE CURSED !!!!!!!!!!
Let’s see if Girardi has a game plan to make Ortiz feel uncomfortable at the plate.
If our line up does what its supposed to do, it is a much more fearful line up than the Red Sox. Our first two batters have to get it going for us. Rodriguez will have a big game if those two get on base
to me the baseball season doesnt start until the first red sox series. Its opening night for me.
“The Wanger will need to use more sliders and changeups. Look for the change against the lefties especially.”
it’s my understanding that the red sox get up in the box to get wang’s sinker before his ball sinks as much. if that’s the case, some four seam fastballs up and in to reclaim the plate should also be part of the plan.
Do you think they made the seats even smaller to squeeze in the extra 1000 seats?
On first glance, I like the new batting order and the lineup.
Of course that’s at 5pm today.
Let’s see what I think of it around 10pm or so.
Melky and Cano at 1-2 seem to look right for some reason.
Fear Not, I just stuck some pins in a Buchholz doll.
Guys, a friend of mine just told me he heard that Jetes is gonna miss a month on the DL. He’s a sux fan so I don’t take him too seriously at times but this IS a lie he made up, right?
dammit where’s my laptop I turn around for 1 second and then…
“Guys, a friend of mine just told me he heard that Jetes is gonna miss a month on the DL. He’s a sux fan so I don’t take him too seriously at times but this IS a lie he made up, right?”
Pete reported an hour ago that Cash said Jeter will likely play in Tampa next week.
It’s two posts down from this one.
I think your friend may be thinking of Mike Lowell, they say he could be out for significant time.
Patience will be the key for the day. Looking forward to the kind of start that Wang had late last season against the Sox, when he had them totally off balance.
Blog ate my post, but if you want to see some excellent tennis, Blake & Mathieu are playing on a super fast court in Davis Cup. It’s on VS. (Versus).
Can we leave Damon in Boston? At least make him sit in the sox dugout this weekend.
This is probably an old question, but does anyone know whether there’s any relationship between (our beloved) Johnny Damon and (evil Affleck acolyte) Matt Damon?
yeh it’s not looking good for Lowell there is rumors of ligament damage out there. As for Jetes the most if they re-evaluate him is a stint to the 15 day DL
Radar’s not looking too good now. Too bad they didn’t play an afternoon game, they would’ve gotten it in.
“yeh it’s not looking good for Lowell there is rumors of ligament damage out there. As for Jetes the most if they re-evaluate him is a stint to the 15 day DL”
And I think they could backdate it to his last appearance, so it wouldn’t have to be 15 days from the day he goes on the DL unless they feel they need it to be.
Wang has to show that he is a true ace.
Pete, thanks for reporting from HELL for us. Please be safe and try to avoid eye contact with the natives.
“Wang has to show that he is a true ace.”
he’s 2 – 0 all he needs to do tonight is pitch, tonight is not a must win or anything like that, be it yes it is the Red Sox but this isn’t making or breaking the season on any side.
“Wang has to show that he is a true ace.”
Would you say Roy Oswalt is a true ace? His last start he gave up six runs. Does that change his ace-ness?
A single game does not an ace make.
Wang just needs to do his thing.
Let’s Go Yankees! Just get a win!
It seems everyone is attacking Damon. However, when he’s hitting he’s an excellent leadoff man and he is definitely a better fielder than Matsui even if he doesn’t have an arm. As I see the series, Yankees should win the first one, advantage on pithing to Wang. The second game goes to the sox, advantage Beckett over Mussina. Finally the rubber game will depend on what Hughes shows up. A good pitching effort could best Matsuzaka if the hitters are patient and wait for the jap to get himself into trouble!
Chad Jennings just put up a follow up post on Alan Horne’s injury.
Jennings just spoke to Mark Newman. Very good news:
“Although Alan Horne called his injury a “partial tear” this afternoon, vice president of baseball operations Mark Newman called it a strain, saying the term “tear” makes you think of a serious injury. Horne’s injury is relatively minor.
“It’s like a pulled muscle, and every pulled muscle is a slight tear to some extent,†Newman said.
Horne will rest for a few days and then begin a throwing program to rebuild strength. Although Newman didn’t put a timetable on Horne’s return, he made it clear he’s not concerned.
“Of all the things to happen to the arm, that’s by far the least significant,†he said.”
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.....fault.aspx
Thanks guys. I’m at work right now and was able to take a few minutes off so I came on my favorite site. I read the first post and commented without looking through the other posts. I knew my friend was bullsh*ttin me but I’m never too sure about the Yankees and injuries so I decided to make sure.
Thanks anyway and Thanks to the Baseball Gods for not letting it be true.
There are some people on this blog that have stated that Wang is incosistent. I couldn’t disagree more. To me Wang is about as consistent as they come.
What it really boils down to is that when Wang pitches, I feel we have an excellent chance to win. He stopped a losing streak with his last start and the guy is grossly underrated just because he doesn’t strike guys out… its ridiculous.
Everybody is down on Damon but the guy has a 5 game hitting streak. The guy we should all be worried about is Giambi, he looks terrible at the plate for the most part.
I don’t care if its April, I’m excited for this Red Sox Series.
whats with the Damon bashing?
he’s on a 5 game hitting streak, going 6-20, .300 – sure, not great, but not ugly, either.
Boston management is so obsessed with trying to increase revenue to compete with the Yankees they’ll soon be knocking out walls in the restrooms and be charging premium prices for “stall” seats. And btw, that’s where most Sox fans belong anyway, in the “crapper”.
anyone who bad mouths Wang is a worthless troll
“whats with the Damon bashing?”
Well…now that he’s not a CFer anymore, he really needs to get back to his 06 levels of production to be an asset. He’s never gotten on base incredibly well (sitting in the .350 to .360 range), his wheels allow him to steal a goodly number of bases, but it’s not like he’s regularly turning walks and singles into doubles or like he’s Gathright in terms of bothering the pitcher. He sees a bit over 4 pitches per plate appearance, which is solid.
it’s generally true that when Johnny goes, the offense goes. But, that’s because he’s batting leadoff. Whoever you put at leadoff, if he’s getting on base a lot, you’re going to have a more productive offense.
bayron,
What’s with the racial slur?
I would of played Damon in this whole series, he can have an off day in the next one. He has been hitting better and he loves playing in these games. Maybe they can get his swing going even better. It isn’t like he has to move far if he is playing LF anyway.
every chance the yankees get, they need to get into the red sox psyche. this is an important game because wang needs to prove he can beat boston,and the red sox need to know he can beat them.
ever since varitek got in arod’s face in 2004 the red sox believe they are the aggressors .it doesn’t have to be dirty, but it’s time to take back the plate( which is a strong girardi belief) from red sox hitters. i don’t want the yankees to beat the red sox just by the yankees being better, i want them to beat the red sox by also being tougher.
it’s time to reassert dominance. i think we’ll see some different things with the red sox and yankees with girardi in charge. a strong yankee win tonight would send a message, but win or lose,i think girardi will manage with more of a sense of urgency then we’ve seen for awhile.
Damon’s always played well against his former team.
i tried to predict tonight’s lineup this morning, i was wrong about jeter being back in, i was right about damon sitting, i was right about posada DHing and a bout melky batting leadoff. not bad!
Mark Newman also told Jennings that J.B. Cox will be seeing his first in game action tomorrow night at Tampa.
Nice to see him out of extended spring training and starting game action.
Just about an hour and a half away from gametime!!!!
I know its early and we’re only 10 games into the season but I’m excited for this series. First Yanks/Sox series of 2008….the beginning of 19 (and hopefully many more).
I have to work ’till late today so I’ll be relying on you guys come gametime….only here….ahhh, I love this blog.
“It isn’t like he has to move far if he is playing LF anyway.”
But that makes it ideal to get Matsui a game in the field, since his limited range has little impact in Fenway. And Matsui’s a more productive hitter than Damon.
it’s been raining in Fenway, during the past hour. Tarp is on the field. not heavy, but not light, either.
Game not on myp2p tonight? If anyone finds the link can you post it please. Thanks
Hd BP TV on as I was getting ready to go out and they are doing this thing on the trip to Japan – every question posed to the RS and every response starts with a variation of “we know the yankees did this before”…”this is not the first time”…”you know how hard it is”…
Just thought it was funny that they would say it soooo much
Christa-
what is myp2p?
I don’t know if the game is on sopcast tonight. Don’t see it listed
http://tinyurl.com/5w5r5m
Wang grows some stones today!
This is good for Pete being in Fenway he could meet all his Patriots fans.Just like old times .
It would be nice if Wang had a great game tonight. He never seems to do well at Fenway.
A few things.
1. Pete can now do no wrong in my eyes based on his description of the ugliest, most hideous green bandbox in the world. I call it fenway field because it’s basically the size of my backyard (well a little bigger maybe) but it is just ugly as sin. UGH!
IF WE GET ALL 3 GAMES IN -
2. The key to playing at fenway field is always Jeter. That said I will still predict that we take at least 2 of the three. I am not sure of a sweep so I am not saying sweep. Anything can happen though, yes. And I did already predict this last night.
3. Something makes me think that there is going to be some bizarre run scoring this weekend.
I’ve never had the experience of posting here during a Sux series. We actually have another forum that has turned into our security place during game times and that we really like especially during Sux games because it cannot be invaded by Sux groupies. It doesn’t have this kind of setup and is really only good as a chat line or I’d tell you all to stop over. Anyway, I’ll be interested to see what this is like during a Sux series.
I’m about 50 miles south of fenway field and I can tell you that it is cold and grey but certainly not rain-ominous at this point in time. That of course doesn’t mean that rain isn’t falling in the provincial gross place.
ONWARD AND UPWARD!
When’s the last time our #1 and #2 batters were
When’s the last time our #1 and #2 batters were less than 27 years old?
Sorry, the “less than” symbol is bad news in html.
What’s the over/under on the number of GIDP’s that come out of the Matsui-Posada-Giambi-Molina foursome?
I’ll take the under, I’m visualizing balls curling around that right field pole.
Excellent news on Horne.
On SWB blog – JB Cox will pitch his first game in Tampa tomorrow, Melancon is getting his innings and feels fine – nothing else is important for him at this junxure.
Your right Mel. Sorry about the Jap comment, no offense intended. Actually I believe Matsuzaka is a fine person and player and deserves as much respect as Matsui or anyone, even if he plays for our rival Boston, which happens to be an excellent team and group of men. Its probably the respect both organizations have for each other what makes their rivalry the best in sports! But I still root for the Yankees!
Another lineup shake-up. Well, if it worked once, I’m willing to give it another try. Wonder how Buchholz will throw.
Lets go Yankees!!!!
I’m not counting on Bucholz to do much because he seems to be pretty sensitive. I’d say that since he hasn’t had great success since he pitched his no hitter, it might be in his head. So I don’t think that playing the Yankees is necessarily the bromide to make him pitch better.
That’s my out of the box thought on Bucholz. My alternate route is it were. We’ll see if I’m onto something.
The lineup better bust out tonight and smack labtops around.
We have 3.5 black holes in this lineup. For god’s sake, who did Betemit pee on?
Well, the scouting reports are out on Buchholz now, so the Yanks should at least know what’s probably going to be coming their way.
YES is showing a little film preview on the Sux. So great is my love for that team that I am now watching a rerun of Chelsea lately.
World’s Largest Drunk Tank???
Did I miss where the Steinbrenners shrunk Yankee Stadium???
DIE REDSUX DIE REDSUX!
You broke my heart Fredo
No but I think you missed the turnoff for Sons of Sam Horn.
———>
anti-musina…thats a little harsh don’t you think?
People can make jokes about Buchholz and laptops. Ok it’s funny.
But don’t sell his short. He has outstanding stuff – not just good. Elite level stuff.
There are very few pitchers in all of major league baseball who throw two secondary pitches that can match his change up and curve ball. The change up especially.
If they aren’t patient at the plate they are going to wind up flailing and looking silly at the plate against that change.
And if he stays healthy he’s probably only going to get better.
He only converted to pitching full time while he was in junior college. And he’s an excellent athlete. One of the best in baseball. He had a scholarship to play football at wide receiver at Notre Dame. And he is either the fastest or second fastest player in the entire Sox organization. He supposedly once beat Ellsbury in a foot race when they were in the minors.
He’s only been pitching for a relatively short time and has come very far very fast.
Series Prediction:
NYY 2–BOS 1
Game 1:
NYY 7
BOS 2
Now….lemme get back to work….
Gammons on Wang: “I love his consistancy”
Gammons on Hughes “I’m a huge Groupie”
make what you will of it
CB,
Your scouting report is very good, very frank. We haven’t been underestimating his skill, we’ve just been joking at the expense of his character. But yes, patience will be the key. Let the kid drive himself nuts trying to figure out how to get through our lineup.
Melancon is getting his innings and feels fine – nothing else is important for him at this junxure
Well, it would be nice if he could get his innings in AND actually get someone out.
“World’s Largest Drunk Tank???
Did I miss where the Steinbrenners shrunk Yankee Stadium???”
Fredo- doesnt this place remind you of some sort of hitler youth camp for yankees fans?
Gammons on Wang: “I love his consistancyâ€
Hard to argue this. He puts up 6 pretty damn good months a season. That pesky 7th month has been a problem though.
Fenway not his cup of tea. 6.17 ERA, 1.86 WHIP, 20 walks and 11 K’s in six Fenway starts. Could be some runs tonite.
Michael Kay said that the Sox had batting practice, but not the Yanks – that’s when they put the tarp on the field.
Let’s go Yankees
This game is definitely a good challenge for Wanger. Winning this one will for sure boost his confidence with his new stuff on the mount. I can’t wait to see how things unveil…
i love the introduction YES does before the games, especially this one! So dramatic!!!! Gives me chills!
Buried T-shirt? Why would those dipsticks over at the Post even print such an assinine story? Unless it really happened and the Yankee front office is trying to do damage control. Either way, now to excorcise the demons we have to bury a Post sportswriter and Schilling’s laptop. That oughta do it.
DIE REDSUX DIE REDSUX!
Amen!
sara -
I have the NESN feed.
Wang pitched ridonculous against Boston during July at the stadium. NO hitter into the 6th I believe. That was the game Joba threw at Youkalis.
Dang it. MLB.tv is using NESN coverage.
oh man Trisha, it is great. they alwasy do something dramatic but THis was a good one!
You should get satelite!
Game 1. Red Sox 10, Yankees 2. Final. Write that on your collective forehead!
As long as that loser Michael Kay has anything to do with it, don’t worry about a Yankee not hitter happening.
Do I watch Yanks/Sox or Rangers/Devils??? AHHHH
Sara – just saw that on YES. They really make it seem more than just the 11th game of the regular season!
“Wang pitched ridonculous against Boston during July at the stadium. NO hitter into the 6th I believe. That was the game Joba threw at Youkalis.”
Yup, Wang’s numbers against the Sox at Yankee Stadium are quite good. 3-2 record, ERA slightly below 3.00. But his Fenway numbers have been a disaster.
CB,
I can guarantee you the fastest guy in the Red Sox organization is Lin Che Hsuan, claimed by the Taiwanese the “Taiwanese Ichiro” He ran the 100 in 10.6…when he was 17(he’s 18 now) how riDUNCulous is that!!
Oh hooray, MLB.TV is showing the NESN broadcast.
Actually, dare I say it, but NESN isn’t that bad other than Remmy’s voice. But they’re better than FOX and ESPN for the most part if you ask me.
Sara – I have satellite.
I live in the market of the pathetic provincial “we can only win if other teams are totally injured” ugly green bandbox Suxers. Whenever the Yanks play the losers, I am stuck with NEXN.
I don’t know the best way to describe my feelings towards the Red Sox…. its a mix of disgust, hatred, and….. well I guess that’s it.
Youkalis
Ortiz
Papelbon
They all repulse me.
Michael K isn’t that bad. I missed him with only Kenny and Cone doing the games in KC…they were kinda boring!
NESN
wow it is really raining, i am surprised they started on time
Hockey, Rocco.
NO Yanks/Sox series should be held before June. I’d watch the meaningful game and check in on Fenway during the stoppages.
NESN broadcast is really not a bad broadcast. But if there are any games that I would want to watch through the eyes of YES it is the Yanks when they play at the ugly green crapbox known as fenway field.
i can’t watch the games on anything but YES, when they are on FOX or ESPN I have to mute the TV and listen to the radio
They said the weather isn’t supposed to get much better, so that’s why they started it anyway.
Nice AB by Melky so far.
sara, Remy is saying they decided to start on time because the weather is not supposed to get better as the night goes on so they didn’t want to wait.
is this dude pitching a nerd or what?
well i am not complaining, i didn’t want a rain out
“i can’t watch the games on anything but YES, when they are on FOX or ESPN I have to mute the TV and listen to the radio”
YES really cries for Kaat. They haven’t had a decent color guy since he’s been gone. Sterling radio calls border on fictional, so having the TV on probably helps.
good AB’s for melky and cano, not for the results but for making buchholz work.
according to jerry remy, it’s not jorge posada, it’s jorge puh-sodder
I miss Mercer on YES! I can not listen to the FOX or ESPN guys bash the Yankees.
To me Sterling and Waldman are a comdedy act…they make me laugh
Paulie O on YES isn’t bad either
miggs,
not beckett?
Well, the field crew had to put the “tap” on early, so the Yanks couldn’t take BP.
i hear from my mom via text message, who has the YES broacast, that michael kay is in love with buchholz. i always got irritated watching YES for Red Sox games because it always seemed like Kay would try too hard to be unbiased, but as a result would be way too complimentary to the Red Sox. annoying.
Let’s go WANGER
“I live in the market of the pathetic provincial “we can only win if other teams are totally injured†ugly green bandbox Suxers.”
Which Yankees were injured during the 2004 ALCS? The only prominent injury I can recall was to a Red Sox pitcher.
Which Indians and Rockies were injured during the 2007 playoffs?
Don’t be an ignoramus.
is Pedroia even 3 feet tall?
“A bit of a surprise as Crisp starts in place of Ellsbury for Boston.”
It’s frustrating, since I have Ellsbury on my fantasy team!
Ellsbury is already better than Crisp, and is rotting on the bench.
Get the damn ball down
Sox are going aggressive to start it out. 2 outs on 3 pitches.
Brian from PA, it’s also Jose Mo-leaner
He cannot live up where that ball is in the 1st. No downward movement.
Nice quick inning by Wang, but what’s with the fly ball outs?
“Paulie O on YES isn’t bad either”
He’s bland as hell. Had some decent insight, but his personality doesn’t seem to fit the gig.
what the hell is big Crapy crying about? ANother K?????
BYE BYE FATSO. GO SIT DOWN NOW FATIZ!
8 pitches and 1K for the 1st inning – go Wanger!!!
Haha, Papi goes down looking
Great pitch to K Ortiz. Good start Cy Wang.
yeah Ortiz, argue balls and strikes! you go girl! keep yelling at him!
YOGI BERRA IS AT THE RANGER/DEVIL GAME WITH A DEVIL’S HAT ON!!!!???!!! WHAT IS THAT ABOUT???
8 pitches for Wang? I’ll take it
wake up bats
OH LOOK THEY RETIRED MO’S NUMBER AT FENWAY. THAT WAS NICE
Guess who is going to come out ahead – Big G (0.056) or Big Pappi (0.081)?
Clay Bucholz looks like a chucky doll.
Yogi lives in Jersey, sara… it happens, unfortunately. i know a lot of yankees-devils fans.
Betcha Sui takes chucky deep before the night is over.
I’ve got to follow the game on MLB Gameday. They indicate Wang is throwing cutters.
Is he really throwing a cutter?
Let’s get A bomb and lead the game…
it was rough to see Brian, rough to see
are the red sux really ugly or is it just me?
Looking at that rain it’s hard to imagine getting 9 innings in.
Cano has great numbers at Fenway. I’m playing with MLB.com’s Hit Tracker.
In 2005 Cano had a double down either line, a single to left, 6 singles to center, a single to right, and an infield single.
15% LF, 46%CF, 31% RF.
2006, 2 doubles to left, 4 singles, a double, and a homer to center, and 3 singles and a double to right.
18% LF, 55% CF, 36% RF.
2007, 3 singles, a double and a homer to left, 3 singles, a triple and a homer to center, a single and a homer to left.
42% LF, 42% CF, 17% RF.
Do you think that’s just luck or did he change his approach last season? Pete, any chance you can ask him?
They’re really ugly.
Maybe the reason why Big Poopi is struggling is because he has lost a couple of pounds — his usual 400 lb as$ provides the fulcrum for his swings.
the less we play like crap, the less negative I am.
I am glad to see the Yankees looking more patient at the plate and working the count.
Re: Mickey
Gameday is pretty lousy at pitch identification in general, and it’s particularly bad at distinguishing between fastballs.
Here’s an article about just that: http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....ification/
Damn, CC Sabathia has a unique approach to pitching in his contract year. His agent better tell him constantly hitting bats probably isn’t the way to go.
sara- i can’t get the rangers-devils game. said it was gonna be on versus but versus is showing the Flyers-Caps game, which is annoying because i’m in greater Philly so i have that stupid game on like 3 other channels anyway. if you could post score updates from the Rangers-Devils game that would be pretty awesome. GO RANGERS.
and go YANKEES. nice hit for Hideki.
They are quite fugly
i thought so. so for those who live in the Boston area…I have friend from NY going to the game on sunday..I warned them not to wear Yankee gear but they think i am kidding. What would you guys say? Is it safe? i have been to boston a million times as I have friends there but honestly i am afraid to wear anything Yankees..althoug I do love using my Yankee credit card
No problem Brian, I will keep you posted. tight now 0-0 12 minutes to go in the first
its fine to wear yankee gear to fenway
They’re getting the pitch counts up. That’s a good thing.
sara
its not bad in the stadium… its outside where you have to be careful.
Sabathia getting rocked @ Oakland
Sara I have never gone to fenway field with anything but Yankee regalia head to toe. Absolutely not a problem.
I like the approach the yankee hitters are taking so far.
They are being very patient with Buccholz. That’s what you have to do because his change up has so much movement on it and has a lot of downwards motion to it. Very tough.
He’s over 30 pitches in the second inning with almost 50% strikes and 50% balls.
Buchholz is going to be on a strict pitch count, especially early in the game.
They don’t need to score a lot of runs against buccholz. They just need to get his count up and get him out of the game early.
The boston pen outside papelbon and okajima is not deep.
thanks guys, i’ll let them know!
count on me for an alternate route … to what?
I’m glad they’re really making Buchholz work…dang! If Giambi had gotten just a bit more of that, it would have been out.
37 pitches for Clay
gotta keep making him work
anyone remember in ST when giambi was hitting the ball the other way and looking great and i pointed out that when the time comes, he will go back to trying to pull everything…?
the second time around the order the Yanks will break out
And this is the first time they are seeing him. They may do even better the second time through.
my way of saying that I don’t always think in conventional or “accepted” baseball terms and tend more to creative thinking. Out of the box thinking.
Sara -we obviously think alike
Yes..great minds
And Manny poses for the foul ball. Keepin it classy
Well, at least they were making laptop stealing boy work.
Next time
oh.. and I though it was something obscene, vulgar, pornographic, profane, or indecent. Silly me.
6-0 C.C. losing in the second inning. I wonder if he continues pitching so suberbly. Maybe we can get him for cheap.
Sabbathia has only had 2 truly outstanding years. He has more to prove this year if he’s expecting Santana money.
Cleveland is going to need to win by pitching and he has to be front and center.
That said, Carmona has better stuff than Sabbathia.
meant superbly
wanger looking good!
Oh Yeah..Let’s Go Rangers tonight!
Wang is throwing gas
I HATE YOUKALIS
I totally called that K right as Kay was talking about how Manny showed up to camp on time this year. My dog was impressed by my foresight.
Notice how Pukalis looks like he’s always getting ready to take a dump?
hm. when youkilis came to the plate i suddenly felt a twinge of nausea in my stomach. maybe it’s a coincidence but somehow i don’t think it is. the dude is pretty damn ugly.
I can’t believe Wang just struck out Manny on a fastball!
We haven’t seen that often. I wonder if he was guessing slider after wang showed it to him the pitches before.
Beautiful mix of pitches by wang that at bat.
“Oh Yeah..Let’s Go Rangers tonight!”
I agree.
WOO HOO!!!
And this one is for Pete – YESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As an aside, Bobby Abreu thrills me with his play.
Nice inning by Wang.
Brain from PA…..why you looking at guys that way???………..hhmmmmmm….ok to much info from your part.
brain still 0-0 in the Ranger game. about 5 minutes left in the first period
“And Manny poses for the foul ball. Keepin it classy.”
He should stay consistant and pose after a strike out. Now that would be classy.
“Brain from PA…..why you looking at guys that way???………..hhmmmmmm….ok to much info from your part.”
…what?
brian, not brain, sorry :-/
It was a joke n/m buddy.
molina keeps setting up down and in on manny. this gives manny more time than up and in. wang needs to , on his own if molina won’t call it, go up and in. this is basic pitching 101. he has to get manny uncomfortable and back him off the plate to open up the outside part of the plate for his developing breaking balls.
the strike out was nice ,but i think wang got away with one. that pitch was right down the middle of the plate.
Wang is at 20 pitches
Clay is at about 43 right now
Make him work boys
I think that there is a conspiracy by the umps to squeeze the Yankees at the plate. Some of these calls are ridiculous.
it’s okay Sara. everyone calls me Brain online. you’re the only one to notice and apologize. thanks for the updates on the rangers game.
WOW Bucholts has the makings to be an ace. I mean he’s hitting 92 on the gun. Phil has 1 more mph to make the cut.
Not as good as the first two innings in terms of patience…oh well. He’s at 50 or so now, I think.
The Governor just got kicked off the ballot !! Damn I wish Gardner was up and in the lineup. I just think Brett can add the spark the Yanks need right now.. something different at least. Alberto just looks so overmatched.
Who woke up the chucky doll? Yanks have to keep making him work.
Brian, there are a lot worse things to be called than brain!
“It’s turned into a pitchers’ duel” says Kay in a game with one hit between the 2 teams. Wonderful.
“that pitch was right down the middle of the plate.”
Looked like it was down and over the outer half to me.
They’ve established the inside of the plate very well. There’s no need to dust guys when you’re doing just fine inside already.
shut up michael kay
sos27-
what stations gun are you watching?
No problem Brian…0-0 end of first period.
“I think that there is a conspiracy by the umps to squeeze the Yankees at the plate. Some of these calls are ridiculous.”
As long as its not the same ump from the k.c(Wegner i think)series.I’ll take it.
“WOW Bucholts has the makings to be an ace.”
Well, that curve is pretty dirty. Gonzo looked outmatched. Of course, he’s not really a major league hitter, at least not now.
Well, there is one good thing about not getting the YES broadcast.
how many pitches has wang thrown? is he even at 30?
End of the 1st period between rangers and devils… 0-0
Wang looks really good tonight..retiring 8 consecutive batters in a row. Henrik Lundqvist is looking terrific so far this postseason for the Blueshirts. I am switching back between games. Go Rangers/Yankees!
Kevin
Buchholz and Phil both throw at about the same speed but look at how much better Phil’s fast ball is.
Buccholz has good velocity but his fastball is relatively straight as he comes so over the top. Not a lot of movement or late life.
Buchholz does a very good job with his fastball however because he almost pitches in reverse. His curve and change set up his fastball as they are his dominant offerings. If those pitches weren’t so good hitters would tatoo his fastball.
Phil’s fastball on the other hand, even though its similar velocity, if a much higher quality pitch because of it’s movement, late life and location.
Phil’s fastball sets up his curve. And that fastball is so good that he’s still successful despite largely only throwing 2 pitches.
Two pitchers with fastball’s thrown at the same velocity – both effective – but for very different reasons.
Randy some people have YES and some have NESN.
They might be getting squeezed a bit, but it’s WAY better than the crew they had in KC.
Another strong inning by Wang. And he kept the ball down.
Wang is at 29
29 pitches for Wang. 45 for Buchholz.
So freakin happy I am not listening to Kay. I know I would be jamming my fist down his throat by this point…
Wang is dealing today!
Wait until that little Pedroia comes to the plate. He looks so hot with his horn-rimmed glasses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD_bqXMO5aY
Love to see the 3 groundball outs that inning. Wanger’s got it going on.
Another nice one by Wang. Very economical
gonna go out on a limb and predict Wang wins 20 games this year.
Nice Wang! He’s at 30 pitches now.
Can the bats wake up please?
randy,
nesn. I was just making the comment from all the talk this week that Phil couldnt be an Ace. Because his fastball isnt at 94-96. Instead 91. Buckholts on the other hand has the chance at 92. What gives? I thought its all about location and movement. My bad.
“They might be getting squeezed a bit, but it’s WAY better than the crew they had in KC.”
Def better than the KC crew. But I really don’t see anyone getting squeezed. I’ve seen some pretty generous calls, especially for Buchholz. Some really high strikes and balls off the inside of the plate.
“I was just making the comment from all the talk this week that Phil couldnt be an Ace.”
Those people have no clue. There’s no point in talking to them.
Hey guys. I’m just watching on Gameday because my nerves cannot take it. Question though: have any of the Sox hit any balls hard at all?
CANO NEEDS TO STOP SWINGING AT THE F-ING FIRST PITCH. PERIOD.
Boo, robbie. Boo. That’s why I don’t think he belongs in the 2-hole.
Cano needs to get it together
god wang is DOMINATING tonight!!!
Kelli – Hysterical!
Sometime I don’t know what goes through Cano’s head. Geesh.
Cano….first pitch…..What can I say………..
Cano is very frustrating to watch right now.
“There’s no need to dust guys when you’re doing just fine inside already.”
manny missed a home run by a few feet on the foull ball. he’s hitting .500 against wang.
that’s not doing just fine. they need to pitch differently to manny. a well placed four seam fastball up and in is not dusting anyone. it’s simply getting into manny’s kitchen.
“gonna go out on a limb and predict Wang wins 20 games this year.”
Brian-I think this is the best iv seen Wang pitch. I dont know why. But i will predict 19. That number seems have his name on it.
“Question though: have any of the Sox hit any balls hard at all?”
Not really. The Yanks have a few times, but near enough to Crisp that he’s caught them.
Nah, the Sox haven’t really hit anything hard.
Pete if you wear a Patriots jerseyyou get a free beer.
the yankees need to get people on base this is stupid!!
Many almost hit one over the Monster just fowl
So much for making the guy work.
“Off whom did Ted Williams hit his 521st home run?” is actually not grammatically correct. I wouldn’t care if Michael Kay didn’t make such a big deal about it.
Shut it.
SoS. i disagree. remember last year he didn’t make his first until late April and still won 19 games. he’ll likely have 3 wins or more at the same time this year.
Too quick of an inning by the Yanks. They need to get back to taking some pitches to wear Buchholz down.
This is the worse hitting Yankee team in a long time. Just have no idea what they are doing at the plate. Either they are too old or Kevin Long has changed things. Can’t have an entire team mired in sloppy/can’t hit mode.
Thanks Whozat.
I should probably tape this game in case I want to watch it later.
that was foul
“manny missed a home run by a few feet on the foull ball.”
Whatever. In every other park that’s waaaaaay foul. Their pitching inside opened up the outside of the plate and manny swung through a fastball on the outer half. That sounds like it’s EXACTLY what they should be doing.
I think I’ll predict 22 for Wang this season.
I don’t like these freakin games where there is no score going realatively deep into the game and Jeter is not in the lineup.
We need to score in the 5th.
And Girardi continues to hit Cano at the top of the order. He’s just not a very smart, motivated ballplayer, that’s for sure.g
Today’s Buckholz is hittable, leaving some pitches up (esp. his curves), but the Yankee offense is just not in a good shape right now… I thought 2nd time around would help, but so far not really.
Brian,
I was just going with his last 2 years of 19 wins each. Thought he might like that number for some reason. I do think he looks much better this year with more in his repotiare(butchered it). Im on your side. I hope it happens.
what the hell a-rod?
I wouldn’t be surprised if fat mouth Kay just mentioned Wang’s perfect game.
Ortiz looked like he was walking down the line.
I guess this pretty much settle the who’s better, Bucholtz or Hughes debate. I’m sure a lot of hitters come to the plate shaky in their cleats because of Hughes’ “poise”
That’s why I’ve been saying for years, put Manute Bol at first base and our defensive struggles are over.
Credit to Wanger for keeping his composure and getting Fat Crappy to hit into a DP.
Dang it. A-Rod throws high and Pedroia has a single
Geez sara it sailed on him a little. He made a nice snare and the throw sailed. YOu can’t expect every throw to be perfect.
Nick – why didn’t I think of that?
Another stron inning by Wang.
39 pitches through 4 for Wang
no score, but it would seem Wang will be able to go deeper in this game than Buchholz, if nothing else.
Whew, thank goodness Wang got out of that mess.
Let’s go, guys!
i think that should be an error on alex. the throw beat pedroia by a couple feet, but he reached because it was too high and pulled giambi off the bag. oh well.
i also think it should be an error to keep a no hitter possible for Wang.
Good play by ARod to save a double, great pitch by wang to clean up after.
Now I want to see some more hard-hit balls. That high strike that he’s getting with his curve is murder.
GIDP by Papi-good for Wang
Ahh no hitter broken
Okay CC struggles again! 7 RUNS IN 4 INNINGS!!
Big Papi??!!
More like Big Poopi!!!
(Sorry – couldn’t resist)
yeah! they gave A-ROd an error!
ya its an error on arodwoot
Buckholts has been lucky. A few hits have been hit hard but the rain has knocked it down.
I know Cano has a good average on his early pitch hitting. But i think its time for him to start taking pitches or sit when he dont. Teams must know not to give him anything to hit the first 2 pitches. I wouldnt. He’s compared to Carew. I think Carew was a patient hitter. He’s reminding me of the other second baseman we had that was impatient. Oh yeah. Soriano.
Did they rule it a single? Gameday says Alex error? Meanwhile, then getting fatso to GIDP? Beautiful
Wait…did they count that as an error on A-Rod or a single?
Nope no-hitter intact.
WOOt error on arod still no hit ball game
SO that was an error? Ok
Get runs now!
Uh – hey! Error not a hit!!!
they did change it to an error! how bout that..
Solid hit. Not every playable ball to 3B is going to get the runner.
Sox announcers whining about the error
Please. Nobody tell Kay the perfecto is still in order…
Hooray! They changed it to an error. The ‘runt’ doesn’t get the 1st hit!!
Man these NESN guys are complaining (whining) about that being scored an error and not a hit! hahaha.
Nevermind-they changed it from a single to an error
WOW; 12 up and 12 down, and Ramirez and Ortiz both strike out, who is pitching tonite? LOL.
IF CWM gets no a no hitter against the redsox no one can say shiet about him
For what it’s worth, that is being called an error on A-Rod.
LOL. I know-No one tell Kay
jennifer,
CC didnt last 4 innings
A-Rod threw it high on purpose to preserve the no-hitter.
Kay said, it is ridiculous to think of a not hitter in the 4th
First walk lets go!!
The rain is starting to come down harder. Need to score now!
12 hits 7 runs 3.1 innings 2bb
This is a guy people want to give 20 million to? He hasn’t been good all year.
A pro at the plate.
i think they calling it an error because if CMW went all the way and that was the only hit; media will go crazy
lead-off walk=score
Just say no to C.C
I probably would have called that a hit as well…
Scooter -
Now that is out of the box thinking! Kudos!!!
Matsui is BACK GODZILLA!!!
Lets face it, it was a hit. But if he goes all the way, it is an error.
NESN guys are making a big deal about that hit being changed to an error…can’t stand these guys either. I’ll take Michael Kay. He can’t be worse than these guys.
Also, Wang has 38 pitches through 4, he could easily go nine if he keeps the pitch count down.
One more thing… that Bucholtz kid, his ball is dancing all over the place. I hate to say it but he looks like the real deal.
if Wang doesnt get a no-hitter, theyll change it to a hit tomorrow (imo)
chucky is losing the zone!!!!
two walks..if they don’t score here we got problems
uh oh! two walks in a row!!
This could be interesting
miggs,
the NESN guys were saying that it wasnt a routine play by ARod, which I agree with. I think it was a hit, but I’m not gonna argue if it keeps the early no-hit bid in tact.
here’s the inning!!
Giambi is batting below the speed limit
Typical a Yankees S*** chant. Why not a lets go >>> chant?
i still take CC over everyone in the yankees rotation excpet wang and maybe hughes
On gameday that was counted as an error for Arod…that should be official right?
giambi needs a hit here
Bucholz looks to be in trouble, he can only throw his curve for a strike right now.
GIDP?
here it is again, giambi just has to hit a gb to the left side and the yanks could win a rain shortened 1-0 game.
not that it matters but CC’s actual line was 3.1 and 9ER
full count!
cmon giambi
Ah…Buchholz has lost his command again.
“One more thing… that Bucholtz kid, his ball is dancing all over the place. I hate to say it but he looks like the real deal.”
He is. There’s no doubt. He’s going to be thorn in the yankees side for a long time if he stays healthy.
Great stuff. I don’t know if there is a better change up in the American league.
Only small knock on him in the minors was his fastball command wasn’t great. Last season it improved significantly.
wat?
sara -
we gotta get to chucky NOW!
god damn they are going to leave these two lead off walks on base.
Jason swinging at garbage!
Giambi is really looking like dog poop. its pathetic.
Giambi scares me
that is Buchholz’s nasty change…
and that is the man Jose!!!!
WOOT BASEHIT !!!!! YAYAYAYAYAYAYA
Jose Molina comes through again!
damn Giambi. i really wish he’d get going.
YESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Excuse my lack of intelligent posting!
He he he
JOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jorge is so slow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Molina was such a great trade/signing.
JOSE….. jose jose jose jose
Jose is so money
Molina gets a double to bring in Matsui! 1-0 Yanks
Look at Manny being Manny. Not even going after the ball. I know he can hit, but that would tick me off if I were a fan of that team.
Hope the kid just belts it to the outfield and plates a run.
whozat-
simply going down and in with two seamers that sink is not going to make manny uncomfortable because he has time to drop the bathead on the ball. they are not going to go outside and high so there is no difference in eye level for manny if they go outside and low.
granted up and in strikes will upset manny. he’ll throw a hissy fit, but do we yankee fans really care?
Giambi .052?
Molina is giving new meaning to the phrase double or nothing. It seems like all he does is hit doubles.
atta boy Jose!
best backup catcher ever. isn’t that like his 4th double of the year already?
CMW…don’t sing that song!!! That is a MUT song
MOLLINNNA!!!
what a great backup catcher
Molina for MVP.
Holla Jose!
If Jason still is mired in his slump (or whatever you want to call it) by mid May. Anyone think the Yankees would release him? or Put him on waviers?
Hard to believe that they got Molina for Jeff Kennard – a AA pitcher who was never going to pitch for them in the majors.
What a terrific trade by Cash.
Molina!! He he deserves to start. As i stated earlier today. Keep him behind the plate and dh Posada. I like the Defense much better and has been hitting all spring.
walk a non hitter u get it!!!!!
cmon kid, just lift it to the of
Laura, i will spearhead the campaign
Buchholz almost at 80 pitches…
agree with CB that the Yanks have taken the right approach (especially against a guy like Clay who they havent seen before)
this is the type of game that can help the offense get back on track – let’s hope
Laura -
you betcha, re: Molina.
Good lord I also call that the best trade the Yanks ever made.
Wow, a walk to Gonzo. 3rd walk. Come on Melky!!
Loaded up for Melky !!! One of our best hitters right now the way he’s swinging the bat.
this is the time, put it away
Bases loaded for Melky as Gonzalez walks…please get a couple more in!
LMAO! he walked Gonzalez!
Oh yeah. Giambi should ride the pine. Hasnt done crap all spring.
CB,
I was really happy when I heard they got Molina but it was more due to the fact that they didnt even have a competent backup at the time.
I expected a typical backup catcher – defensive-minded guy who couldnt hit.
Molina has exceeded my expectations on both accounts.
what a steal…
ok, all michael kay and david cone are talking about is how great and fantastic varitek is. ummm do Yankee fans really want to hear this crap? i am sure boston announcers are talking about how great a person jeter it
Cmon melk man!
cmon Melky,
lay off the changeup and wait for your pitch!
OMG!! LUCKY
The mute button is my best friend.
Come on Melky
And that’s why he isn’t the Attorney General anymore. Oof.
Oh, that was a mess! We should’ve gotten more runs there.
Melky hit it hard, just at somebody.
with 5 months and about 18 million dollars to go, just how bad has the giambi contract been?
Dang it! Melky lines into a DP
damn. that’s a tough DP. nice effort by A Gonz to get back.
Brain, still 0-0 ranger game 10 left in the 2nd
ARGH!
Kay and Cone? What a team. Two blowhards.
Meanwhile we really should have had more than one run out of that inning. But it obviously helped jack up chucky’s pitches.
C Sabathia 3.1 12 9 9 2 4 11.57
Not good.
still 0-0 in the Rangers/Devils game
Anyone would have made that same mistake. It’s not a rookie error.
And I don’t get the Giambi knocking. Would you take Ortiz at DH (if you don’t say yes, you’re lying)? He’s in a slump. That strikeout was on a nasty pitch. :shrug: Wait til the weather warms up, and we’ll see a few HRs.
yankees are dismal with RISP…ridiculous
that DP was unfortunate
just glad we got a run
and now buchholtz is at 82 pitches already! sweet
Soxs were lucky on that. Alberto was just a little too far from the bag.
200 foot hr. I could do that!
So that’s the Almight Buchholz we all heard about??
sara get over it! He hit it hard right at someone. Please already!!
Thumb head Orsillo trying to hex the Yanks by suggesting that since CM had to wait 21 minutes the Sux would get to him now.
only the yankees don’t get more runs there. what a pathetic offense…
Sorry Jennifer but even with $11M remaining for this year’s salary by the July 31st trading deadline will Cashman find a taker for Giambi.
His $5M buyout clause will be used over this winter and his career as a Yankee will be over and a lesson learned.
C.C’s numbers look horrible
that was better wang changed eye level on manny. nice.
Ha ha ha. Sit dreadlocks.
BD,
I absolutely loved the molina pick up but largely because of context.
One of my major concerns last year was that the team’s offense was so dependent on Posada’s production. I was worried that in the second half with the rigors of catching Posada would tire and his production would drop creating a hole they’d have trouble filling.
That’s why I thought it was particularly important to replace Nieves last year – it was a question of where the production (outside of ARod) was coming from and how to sustain it.
I think he helped Posada maintain his strong season throughout last year. Posada didn’t wilt much down the stretch as catcher’s often do (even Joe Mauer).
He’s been everything they could have expected and much more.
Jeff Kennard was a nice organizational depth guy but nothing more.
The irony of that trade – the angels had 3 catchers and wanted to get rid of one for roster flexibility. A few days after Jeff Mathis got hurt and they were searching for a catcher.
whew! got manny out!!
Stan than you just release him. The Yankee obviously don’t care about money. IF he is doing nothing, why have him waste a roster spot?
Take another dump Pukalisp.
Meanwhile, CM needs to keep that baby down.
2 outs!!
Imagine if the Yankees had drafted Buchholz. Hughes, Joba, Buchholz, etc…
d train walked the 1st 2 batters and then threw a wp and was pulled
Clay is such a dumb@$$….pumping his fist like HE did such a great job there….that line drive is 2 feet to the side and he is OUT of the game at least down by 3-4 runs….I truly HATE ( now this is a Baseball hate…so everyone simmer down ) the frickin’ Red Sux ! ;-(
Miss measured it. Should have been caught. No hitter gone. Shut out gone. Poor play by Bobby.
hmmmmmm
last inning is going to haunt the yankees..bases loaded one out no runs. bad stuff
Abreu? What the hell was that?
Damn!
Argh! 1-1 on a Drew homer
Spoke too soon, but Abreu should have had it.
gotta love Abreu and his 2 inch vertical leap
ugh
Abreau should have caught that…. what a shame.
Nooooooo!!!
Bobby could have had that!!
OMG… It went off Abreu’s glove..
Um, WTF Bobby????? Do we need a Manute Bol in the outfield too???
Ok, now change that error on Arod to a hit. And please settle back down, CMW.
dang it cmon abreu
Error will be taken away from Alex now. Wang has given up two hits.
words I never thought I would hear-
Bobby Abreu too close to the wall
When Wang starts giving up those flyballs its a bad sign. Still, Abreu should have had that ball.
Don Vito A. Bellamo – what a homer… you probably have no problem when Joba does it…
Okay, obviously CM is getting tired because he’s getting the ball up. So Jose has to get him to drop down. He still has a lot fewer pitches than chucky. Yanks have to get chucky on the ropes and not let him off.
sara grow up! It happens. Melky hit a shot and they double off Albeto! PLEASE!!
Wang really kept the ball up that inning. 3 fly outs to the warning track and a homer.
Abreu?? What the hell was that?
anyone else notice that BOBBY ABREU IS STILL AFRAID OF THE F—ING WALL?
What a worthless piece of crap.
P.S. Maybe not worthless, but definitely not worth 17 mil.
YsGuy
they pulled Dontrelle due to an injury… no word on what it is
Bobby tried to get it. So he misjudged or it nudged out of his glove. BFD.
Not really Abreu’s fault… Wang was giving up some bombs that inning. Lucky only 1 went out.
OH GOD!! do you listen to what they said!! He got too close to the wall, couldn’t jump properly!! JESUS!!
This should be Bucholtz last inning.. he’s sitting at 79 pitches now. If we can just work a few counts and take some pitches, he’ll be out of there. Unfortunately, Cano is leading off… just kidding Robbie!!
Don Vito A. Bellamo
April 11th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Clay is such a dumb@$$….pumping his fist like HE did such a great job there….
So Vito……I assume that to be consistent you feel the same way about Chamberlain when he pumps his fist??
i take back saying it was nice of wang to change eye level to manny. i think he just missed up like he did to drew,varitek, and youkillis.
P.S. Maybe not worthless, but definitely not worth 17 mil.
That’s why he’s not making 17 mill. He’s making 16 mill.
They said he was at 83 to start the inning.
well we all knew the score wasn’t going to end up 1-0
Was waiting for someone to bring up the “afraid of the wall” thing… It was just a race to see which dumb-a$$ fan would post it first.
That play had NOTHING to do with being afraid of a wall. LOL.
Wang is not getting tired. Unbelievable. the guy makes one questionable pitch, a ball Abreu should have caught, and now all of a sudden he’s tired? Come on. He’s thrown 48 pitches. That comment just makes no sense.
the game was lost in that top of the 5th inning.
If Abreu makes up for it at the plate no love lost.
So evil chucky got a second wind when he got out of trouble and they tied the score.
COME ON YANKEES!
What Clay should have done is go over and thank Gonzalez for being an even bigger dumb@$$ by breaking away from 1st base on a line drive hit behind him…..ding dong ! ;-(
What’s the score guys? What’s been going on? Game recap…please?
giambi dumping, well lets see…
signed as a free agent to a $120 M contact by the just defeated yankees to be the next superstar, the one time al mvp was seen as just coming into his prime years.
six years, one ws loss and since he couldnt hack it as the big stick, they had to go get arod
no ws rings, no mvp’s, nothing.
its not bashing if its true.
It does look like the Red Sox got Wang a little bit there. The first 4 innings he wasn’t giving up too many big flies. But they hit absolute bombs on him last inning, although the HR should’ve been caught.
Bobby had more tests, and everything came back good!!
miggs –
Wake UP. When a sinker ball pitcher’s getting hit to the outfield, he’s getting tired. I don’t care if he’s thrown three freakin pitches.
“OH GOD!! do you listen to what they said!! He got too close to the wall, couldn’t jump properly!! JESUS!!”
Jennifer-did you play in the majors?….or even gotten close to a mojor league wall….yeah ok the people that know what they talking about say what they gotta say you……shut up.
Tell you what, this team really knocks the crap out of the ball. Just not good.
jenn,
when he jumped he bumped against the wall.
I make the champagne bottles-I’m doing a live blog…
But it’s 1-1. Molina has an RBI double and Drew hit a homer. Wang is pitching a very good game so far (still less than 50 pitches) in the top of the 6th. Buchholz hasn’t shown a whole lot of command, but has gotten out of some jams.
Take THAT fenway freaks.
Come on Hideki!
Was that in English? Are you listening to what Kenny said? If not please get your hearing checked. It had nothing to do with being afraid of the wall.
I dont think Wang is tired.
If he is tired after 49 pitches, that’s a problem.
Yeah, it looked like he did get too close to the wall. He hit the wall during his jump and wasn’t able to jump high enough.
Wish it weren’t two down.
ok posada…a two out hit with RISP…do yanks know what that is? let’s hope they remember!
goddammit Manny
lucky bounce and actually made a nice play to prevent the run
lets score these runs anyway
I TOLD U MATSUI IS BACK GODZILLA!!
Darn. Manny played that well, we needed a bobble there.
Dang, if A-Rod had been running, he might have scored. Oh well. Go Jorge!
Thank you Clay!
C’mon Jorgie!!!!!!
LETS GO JORGE!
“Take THAT fenway freaks.”
wow- you really are a tool! its embarassing!
Watching Matsui, he has been reduced to a good hitter that kills bad pitching and occasionally mistakes by pitchers.
Not sure how this team was projected to score a 1000 runs.
are you kidding me ump????
that is not close to a strike
Wang isn’t tired. He just had a bad inning.
Boston Dave maybe pitching in the rain take more out of you. Usually a sinker ball pitcher who starts getting a lot of deep fly outs does so because he starts to tire.
No big deal. It was just a statement.
I’ll call it now. In 2018, Varitek is the manager of the Red Sox.
they need to get david cone out of the box during red sox yankee games
come on
DAM!!!!!
Rich da caveman!
miggs –
Wake UP. When a sinker ball pitcher’s getting hit to the outfield, he’s getting tired. I don’t care if he’s thrown three freakin pitches.
No offense Trisha, but that comment basically tells me that I cannot have an intelligent conversation with you about anything having to do with baseball or the Yankees. I tried to make a logical point, I didn’t attack you, and you have to respond with this nonsense. I learned my lesson, I will ignore all your useless posts from now on.
They just don’t hit with RISP.
Jorge jorge jorge
friggin ump
2-0 and Posada could take pitch 3 rather than have to make some defensive swings
ugh
oh well, Yanks do seem to be swinging the bats a little better . gotta work through it
Pepper Brooks, shut up. Please. Stop whining.
I can’t tell you how many hard hit balls I see that are HRs or doubles in warmer weather. This team will mash come Summer. I promise.
Argh. Posada grounds out.
brian in case you are still there is is 0-0 still in ranger game 1:30 to go in 2nd
This is just pathetic. Are the Yankees still in the AL East or the NL Central…just bad, bad, bad
Who is available for hitting that could spark this team now or at the deadline?
i know trisha
i think its more likely that Wang lost his handle on the sinker (hopefully just for that inning) than actually tiring. or maybe he was trying to overpitch that inning.
we’ll see right here… lets go Wang (hopefully the ump gives you the extra wide strike zone too)
fly balls cmon we need grounders!
i am still here sara, thanks for the update. eating dinner and it’s tough to watch the game, eat and type.
“Watching Matsui, he has been reduced to a good hitter that kills bad pitching and occasionally mistakes by pitchers.”
People’s expectations for yankee players are ridiculous.
How can you possibly complain about Matui’s at bats.
Buccholz has throw a very good game. How many hard balls have they hit.
And how many of those have come off Matsui’s bat?
Unless the yankee’s fielded a team of 4 ARods and 4 Pujols people would be unhappy.
Where’s Rebecca tonight? What else could she possibly be doing on a Friday night?
oh and there is a huge fight going on right now
“Wang is not getting tired. Unbelievable. the guy makes one questionable pitch, a ball Abreu should have caught, and now all of a sudden he’s tired? Come on. He’s thrown 48 pitches. That comment just makes no sense.”
No offense miggs, but that sounds more like condescending uppity crap than it does an attempt at having “an intelligent conversation.”
Go sell it to someone who’s buying.
i was watching the d train’s 1st inning and they did claim and injury but it seemed to me like he had no idea of where his pitches were going and they were taking him out to save him the embarrassment. he certainly didnt want to come out but it sure was a mysterious injury
Pepper Brooks, stop whining.
how good is CMW
Gonzalez is smooth.
Joe Girardi looks exhausted and it is only the 11 game of the season! ha!
CB,
I’ve been pretty impressed with Matsui’s AB’s so far this season.
I think some people are just bitter that the Yanks didnt trade him for Tim Lincecum, as if that was an option.
Wang is pitching a gem.
Wow 2 more outs in the air. Wand looks exhausted !!!
nice inning by CMW
Boston Dave, I hear what you’re saying. Unfortunately there are Yankee fans who feel that any comment they don’t agree with is equal to cutting off their right testicle. I hope Pete offers adult Depends along with his commentary for their sake.
Wow 2 more outs in the air… Wang must be exhausted!!!
Great pitching. Now let’s get a few runs ont he board. I thought Wang would be good this year..and I know its still extremely early, but he looks great! Show em Joba and Mo..and we will finish em off.
Kevin
Are the flyballs even coming on sinkers? Wang has been trying to mix in more sliders and whatnot so it might be because of that that he’s getting a lot of fly outs tonight.
“Wand”
Really bright.
wang can be up if he strides too far because that tends to put backspin on the ball which keeps the ball up. it’s something he can change on the fly by being reminded of it or just making the adjustment himself to keep his stride shorter.
BTW: This just in.. Zach Parise now has as many teeth as Wang’s given up hits tonight.
the rangers/devils game is good… scoreless after 2 periods.
It is like clock work Posada gets mad at a call and swings at crap and then makes out. He’s just pathetic!! Maybe Molina should bat 6th he is a hitting machine and seems to drive in the rbis. Giambi is soo washed up it is not even funny, time for him to go home…
can giambi poke a damn ball down third base please?????
OMG, Giambi is at .050? That’s just embarrassing.
Tseng,
the fly balls came on fastballs (I believe)… whether they were intended to sink or not, I dunno.
HE did throw some sinkers to Lugo and is hitting mid-nineties on some pitches.
runs Yankees!
Get a case of the runs!
trisha – count on me for an alternate route
April 11th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Notice how Pukalis looks like he’s always getting ready to take a dump?
So Trisha….was this earlier posting your attempt at intelligent conversation?
matty i didn’t think he even had that many!
GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How you like THEM cookies!
how many people owe Giambi an apology?
nice bomb!!!
GIAMBINO!!!!!
Man Timlin is really the goat so much of the time.
I guess I was wrong..The bat does still work..
He must have heard us talkin’ trash about him.
Boy did he need that one
Bout friggin time!!!!!!!!!!
GREAT timing for a hit, Giambi! 2-1 Yanks!
JOSE NICE ANOTHER HIT WOW~!!!
sara, that’s even better. We should light up Timlin.
Hello Giambi!
UMMM…WHO LOVES MOLINA???? I AM GETTING A MOLINA JERSEY TOMORROW!!
Giambino! Atta boy.
Rebecca is in Boston.
Thank you Giambino! Hopefully that’s the AB that loosens him up, we need it.
And thank you Jose Molina and of course, Mike Timlin as well.
I am already anticipating the angry red sox callers tonight and tomorrow on WEEI
I Looooove it!!!
Jose Molina for the all star game!!!
Molina is great!!! He really can hit when he plays every day. He is Wally Pippin Posada.
Another double for Jose. God, I love that guy!
I never said a bad word about Giambi!
God I love Molina .
Another double by Molina. That’s about the 6th one he’s hit this year.
Way to go Mr. Double or nothing Molina. He is incredible right now.
First HR for Giambi!! Maybe he’ll get going now.
2 Doubles for Jose!
The lowdown dirty cheating disgrace Giambi does it! The power of HGH!
MOLINNAA!!! i love him
Jose Molina is unreal
molina wants posada’s job!
“I’ve been pretty impressed with Matsui’s AB’s so far this season.”
How many people were willing, even eager, to dump Matsui for whatever the team cold get.
Jonathan Sanchez ? Sure. Noah Lowery – sure.
And why – becaause people were certain that Matsui was a “spare part.”
How spare a part has he been for this struggling offense now?
Last year he was coming back from that broken wrist (which many players say takes at least 18 month to fully recover from) and then tore cartilage in his knee.
Despite that he had a productive year that compared well with the offensive production of most left fielders.
He’s still recovering from that knee surgery. He’ll get better in the field.
It’s as if people think that it’s so easy to find 1.000 OPS players -like Matt Holliday’s just can be had without a problem – so if you have a guy who’s only an .850 OPS bat well that’s just not good enough.
For a guy who was injured last year Matsui has looked terrific at the plate and their lucky they just didn’t do what so many fans and people in the media suggested – trade him because he’s a over the hill “spare part.”
Jose Molina is OUT OF HIS MIND.
tip of my hat to the big guy, can we trade him now?
How many people owe Giambi an apology after that? DEAD center.
Jose=team MVP right now
who wants to organize the Jose Molina for All Star game initiative?
lets go Yanks!
(p.s. its my bday and all I asked for was a Yankees win)
Good lord Molina is tremendous.
Now, someone gotta plate that run!
We need an insurance run. Come on a sac fly anything to get Molina in.
good work alberto
HAPPY BIRTHDAY BOSTON DAVE!
C’mon Melky. Time to situational hit and get the run home.
So, apparently Kenny calls Okajima “The Oky-doke”
Okajima is coming in to face Melky. Hopefully he can get the run in.
I love how people assume that Wang only gets fly balls when he’s tired. Anyone who follows and really knows baseball knows that there are many reasons that a pitcher can leave the ball up, anything from mechanics to where he’s trying to locate the ball to the fact that Wang is throwing more sliders and changeups this year. So yeah if he’s not throwing sinkers, he probably won’t be getting many ground balls. He’s given up one hit. I was just trying to make a point and its frustrating to have my opinion questioned by some theory with nothing to back it up.
And yeah, Wang still isn’t tired. Not even close.
Okajima…. it’ll be interesting to see how the Yankees handle this guy, they hit him pretty well last year.
I’d love to see Molina in the All Star game, hehe.
The yankee offensive strategy tonight is starting to work.
Buccholz pitched very well but young pitchers aren’t efficient with pitches.
They made him work hard and got him out of the game early.
This is a major weakness of the boston pen – they are not deep and don’t have the middle relief to get them to okajima.
does rick petterson, pitching coach for the muts, scare anyone else but me?
Please a bloop single, sac fly…anything!!! Get Molina home..the guy’s been serving up doubles and nobody bites! Get Wang a WIN.
The Joe Girardi Show should be a Letterman-type show. Opening monologue, celebrity guests, viewer mail, etc…
That would be funny.
Happy birthday, Boston Dave! You’re getting a great effort by Wang. Maybe he’ll give you a complete game and a Yankee win.
btw bengie molina is leading the giants in hr’s and batting 4th (in fact he has 3 of thier 4 hr’s)
Of all Sux players I actually do feel bad for Timlin. He really seems to fall apart on the mound.
Molina= Best backup catcher ever.
CB,
I think there are even more reasons why Matsui is a valuable part of this team. In addition to still being a very good hitter, he is a class act, and I personally believe that its important to be a popular team in Japan.
One of the assets of the Yankees is… well… that they’re the Yankees. If I remember correctly, Dellin Betances said he would go to college if any team other than the Yankees signed him (and paid him
)
but having Matsui helps with that Yankee image. and the guy can still hit too.
Good man Melky!
Happy Birthday Boston Dave! Hope you get exactly what you asked for!
3-1 LETS GO!!!
thanks Steph
I was selfishly hoping for a birthday no-hitter… but I’ll be plenty happy with a win
Wow, Jose “Wheels” Molina.
I dunno how accurate Gameday is, which is what i’m (unfortunately) keeping track of the game on, but it claims that these flyballs are coming on fastballs mostly and not sinkers.
Great job Melky. That’s how you put together a run.
remy says the squeeze play would work perfect now
Melky with the sac fly makes it 3-1. Yeah!
YESSSS!!! thank you melky!!
Long ball and small ball in the same inning. Nice!
A no-no would have been great, but if Wang can go the distance and save the bullpen even more, that’d be wonderful.
i think joe girardi was a better backup catcher
trisha, never, ever feel bad for a red sux.
Nancy with the great arm..
Actually nevermind, it doesn’t even track sinkers it seems.
Look, there’s BeteStrikeOut on the bench. Right where he belongs.
whining? I guess you are right. They have faced some really good pitchers… Halladay, Buchholz, Burnett, .. um..umm. umm..well at least three.
.253 batting averag
29 RBI’s before tonight, now 32
only 82 hits, now 88
.176 with RISP DEAD LAST
204 million dollars…Sorry expectations are high. If they weren’t I would root for the Rays or Pirates or Giants.
put up 3 more here and let albaladejo, hawkins and bruney finish up, save the big 2 for tomorrow and sunday, that would be nice
Another quality at bat by Melky. Very impressive season so far.
One mature, quality at bat after another from both sides of the plate.
He’s only 24 – not only can he still get better – it looks so far that he’s taking that next step forward in his game.
Look at how poor the league average production is from center field.
The idea that you can just find a centerfielder to replace a guy like Melky is just misguided.
And just a couple of weeks ago wanted to dump melky because brett gardner was clearly a better player or had more “potential.”
Yeah, I heard him suggest the squeeze…with Molina. I love his bat and defense, but Mr. Speedy he is not.
sara, I swear it probably is the only time it has ever happened. It will not happen again!
(He just looked so pathetic)
Robbie is really starting to stink up the place.
I think Wang can definitely work with a 2-run lead.
Man, Cano is really struggling. That’s two strikeouts tonight. He really needs to start putting better at bats together, but the Yanks are winning so that is all that matters.
“remy says the squeeze play would work perfect now”
Not with a catcher on third! Also, Melky botched some bunts in the last few games…I dunno if I trust him for that. The sac fly worked
sara-
why does rick peterson scare you? he’s smart as hell and a really good pitching coach (though he blew it on kazmir).
Today’s my father-in-law’s birthday. He is a big Red Sox fan, unfortunately. He lives in Norwich, CT and used to read all of Pete Abraham’s columns back when he was the UConn beat reporter for the Norwich Bulletin.
I hope that last plate appearance was rock bottom for Cano, give the kid an off day he looks lost and seems to be pressing
Thanks Steph
Okay…….I admit that Molina is having a good game but he looks like he is regular and faithful member of the Big Papi donuts for breakfast club.
Y’s guy, I don’t know. A 2-run lead in the green crapbox still makes me a little nervous. I’ll be interested to see how Joe plays it.
Pepper Brooks,
I have a suggestion for you and the other perpetual whiners.
start rooting for the Harlem Globetrotters
they wont let you down!
Y’s guy-Alby’s in the minors…he couldn’t help close out the game…and Wang only has 56 pitches.
Boston Dave -
Happy Birthday!
CB & BDave -
I like what Matsui brings to the table very much. Great consistency, class, and he’s more often than not a good situational hitter.
Hey blog visitors from Taiwan, just in case you missed it when Pete posted it back in November, I have a little photoset of Yankees/Wang-related pictures I took during a trip to Taiwan during the first round of the playoffs last October. Oh the tragedy of it all. Enjoy.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9.....451651434/
Y’s guy, Albaledejo isnt even on the roster! get your facts straight
“They have faced some really good pitchers… Halladay, Buchholz, Burnett,”
And Greinke, and Bannister.
pedroia is so short he doesn’t have an up and in. i have no idea how to pitch to him.
That gross Orsillo is trying to do it again, mentioning the length of the break – the number of fly ball outs, etc. Remy is cool. He doesn’t play the jinx game. He just calls the game.
Y’s guy…albaladejo isn’t on the team
Another nice part of this game is that the yankee’s forced francona to go to Okajima in earlier than he would have wanted to.
Papelbon had to come in yesterday to get a 4 out save.
Now Okajima is in in the seventh. To start stressing the back end of the boston pen in game one of the series is enormous.
If Wang can give them 8 innings and save Joba that would be another enormous strategic advantage for tomorrow’s game when Mussina is pitching.
thanks Doreen and trisha
I guess it’s our nature as fans to constantly be looking for ways to improve the team… but I would think that people would learn not to rush to judgement. More often than not, the experts who actually make the decisions know more than we do… at least some of us
Joba Time
The Socks need to bring in Manny DelGagne to put the game on ice for the Yankees.
hmm. With Wang throwing so little pitches, do we let him go into the 8th or should we play it safe and do the Joba to Mo thing?
I still think Scooter’s comment about why Arod threw high was perfect!
pedroia is so damn little. my five year old cousin is taller than him, i swear
Strong throw by A-Rod to get Pedroia.
Is anyone surprised with Buchholz’s velocity? The YES gun has him mostly 87-89 mph.. I thought it might just be a slow gun, but it also has Wang at 92 consistently which is about right.. Clay laptops is nowhere neear mid 90s, in fact he isnt even in the low 90s
guys, when we get down on cano and giambi we should be grateful we don’t have Ortiz!
.079
Bingo!
CB,
Delcarmen has struggled early as well. The Sox couldnt revamp their bullpen because they wisely didnt dump millions on the avg relievers in free agency this past offseason.
Over the course of the season, the Yanks bullpen, and ability to reload with MLB ready bullpen guys could be the biggest factor in the division. The Sox have some pretty good arms in the minors but most of them arent ready yet.
Wow, Wang usually has trouble with Ortiz. He’s manhandling him tonight.
The YES guys are right…Ortiz looks like a kicked dog. He clearly feels HORRENDOUS right now.
Thanks Boston Dave…Don’t follow women’s basketball, but glad you do.
So what you are saying is sit back watch in disgust and then only post if I have some skewed gushy postive thing to say, even though it is not true.
Ok….Sorry to offend you with visual facts… as I rethink my previous posts, you are right, they are hustling, they look fit, getting singles, playing defense, they are turning the corner.
Boston Dave, BINGO on your birthday!
That’s why I am chill and just enjoy watching it all happen. I KNOW the Yanks know what they’re doing. So I just scroll by the whines.
Nah, let Wang keep going. He hasn’t even hit 70 pitches. Joba and Mo threw yesterday. Wang’s pitch count is so low he should be able to throw a complete game with the pace he’s getting the outs at. He’ll only be facing the bottom half of the order after Manny anyway.
Ofcourse the strike zone gets smaller with Manny up.
JK,
I suspect the YES gun is a little low. NESN, which is usually pretty close, had Buchholz at 91-93 and Wang at 91-95 (depending on which fastball he threw).
Oh, that was beautiful. Just beautiful.
Wang (our ace) has been great tonight!
Happy Birthday Boston Dave.
A is for Ace. Chien-Ming Wang is an Ace.
CM Wang, I bow to you. If this is what we get from Wang the majority of the season, you are watching at least one of our aces pitch.
That Wang is one cool cucumber.
Manny K’s again
Wow, Cy Wang is the MAN!!! This is easily his best game in the big leagues.
WANG CG?
K to Manny!!
Wang for president !!!! hahaha
nesn gun seems fast. when hughes pitches with the nesn gun we’ll get a comparison.
2-0 RANGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
which Joe is managing the Yanks, Mr T would bring in Joba for the 8th what will Mr G do? I would stay with Wanger because he is our ACE
He’s ACE !!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the nice pictures of Taiwan, Nick in SF. Appreciated for sharing.
I miss home now. :p
Outstanding Wang! Just Outstanding!
Talk about great minds! How about three in a row!!!
Guys, I’m maybe tearing up a little bit. I’m maybe crying because that pitch…that whole AB…it was just beautiful. It’s like art.
JAGR AND AVERY SCORED BACK TO BACK. AVERY SCORED ON THE FACE OFF AFTER JAGR SCORED!!!
I’d say let Wang relief himself he’s looks locked into Molina
Okay managers what do you do. Wang has a low pitch count, but we are approaching the 8th. Do you go to Joba, than Mo? Or do you let Wang pitch?
Tough choice, no matter what is done you can be second guessed.
jk7742,
nesen had him at 92.
happy b day b-dave. Mines tomorrow. Enjoy!!
I call a complete game for Wang. Save Joba, save Rivera.
That pitch Wang struck Manny out on was a thing of beauty.
Abreau is probably not able to look Wang in the eyes right now.
Incredible Wang!
Just Awesome!!!
SWB winning 7-1 in 8th. Rasner 6ip, 1er, 4h, 5k. Duncan hr & 2 runs, Gardner 2-4, Ransom 2-3 3rbi
Pepper Brooks,
the Yankees are in good shape right now. If the Sox were 9-1, it might be a different story.
Its your right to harp on the negative if you choose to, but if you think the Yankees offense isnt going to hit this season, well… let me know how much you want to put down on that bet.
Relax, its a long season. Dont focus on the negative from just over one week of baseball.
“hmm. With Wang throwing so little pitches, do we let him go into the 8th or should we play it safe and do the Joba to Mo thing?”
No. Absolutely not. I would not bring in joba.
Look – Wang is facing the heart of Boston’s order right now.
In this game the seventh inning is the key inning not the 8th because of the hitters who are coming up.
You get past Ortiz and Ramirez here and the 8th only gets easier.
They’ll need their pen this series with mussina and phil coming up.
Complete game. Definitely. Don’t mess with what’s working. Love that Wang =)
I would definitely let Wang finish this one. Give Joba and Mo a day off, they’ll be needed in the rest of the series.
great news Sara! i take it it’s 2-0 Rangers then?
Joba and Mo pitched yesterday and Wang has a very low pitch count. I’m going with Wang. He’d be facing 5-7 hitters in the 8th and 8, 9, and 1 in the 9th.
Wang is getting the complete game. No reason to take him out unless he loses it.
the bullpen can use a day of rest.
sorry i wrote albaladejo but i was thinking ohlendorf
no one cares about hockey
LETS GO RANGERS !!!
My hat is off to Wang…..he is pitching a very good game!
no hitter if it wasnt for that wall scrape.
jennifer – I sit back and say “good call, Joe!”
whozat, if you’re serious, then I am definitely on your team. I tear up behind the beauty of lots of Yankee plays and really respect you saying what you did.
2-0 Rangers… goals by Jagr and Avery 23 seconds apart!!! WOOO
Sos
thanks, happy birthday to you too (Rebeccas is tomorrow as well)
steph from you lips to gods ears.
what was ‘the runt’ doing sliding like that? The ball was no where near him
CMW is just too awesome tonight.
2-0 BRIAN!
thanks Fran
Let Wang finish the game..
Nice Alex. Come on Hideki
hockey, now? did they settle the strike?
You bring Wang back for the next inning. The hitters coming up have not touched him, except Drew and his lucky AB. You have Joba ready, IF Wang gets in trouble.
However, Wang is getting late movement tonight so there should be no trouble. Then you go to the 9th, hopeing for more support but figuring that you have both Joba and Mo to get three outs, with a 1 run margin of erro.
“Guys, I’m maybe tearing up a little bit. I’m maybe crying because that pitch…that whole AB…it was just beautiful. It’s like art.”
It’s still very early but with the way Wang’s throwing this season it looks like he may be taking that next step forward in his career.
He only discovered the sinker in 2004 and that transformed his approach.
Because of his age and how good he was right off the bat it’s easy to forget that his still maturing as a pitcher.
He took that playoff debacle to heart and afterwards I remember him saying that he had to make his secondary pitches better.
It looks like his determination and hard work is paying off.
trisha
Not everyone would be as understanding as you.
SOS, that’s if you subscribe to the theory of predetermined destiny. Maybe Wang would have not pitched the same game if that ball had been caught.
Hey I say it’s less pressure once the first hit happens.
looks like NESN is pumping up the velocity.. otherwise Hughes is throwing 93-96 and everyone can stop complaining now
Pepper sounds good to me.
Awesome that Jagr was clutch. This may be his swang song with the team if he goes back to Russia.
I don’t care what anyone says, Wang has a no-hitter so far
whozat,
the best part of the Manny K was that the last pitch was clearly a strike but Manny was so befuddled that he stood there and argued the call… only making himself look like more of a fool.
love it.
…Remy references last year when Pedroia got pissy at a-rod for sliding into him to break up a double play, and he called it a “fluff up” between pedroia and a-rod….
Question, what would happen if that ball hit the ump?
Posada is swinging the bat well.
jennifer, okay i have been known to throw out a few WTFS?????? but that was really only when Joe Torre would put in a relief pitcher who had pitched the previous 500 games. I see a different manager in Joe G.
Now Jorge gets a hit? Where was that hit when A-Rod and Matsui were on second and third?!!
C’mon Jason. Let’s tack another run on here with a hit.
scary to think about a guy who won 38 in 2 years stepping his game up, but thats what they said when tiger woods changed his swing
CB i agree…wang has really matured as a pitcher…i hate to say this but Eiland replacing Gator was a good move. They say Eiland is great, really hands on. Wang is an Ace in my eyes!
Posada nearly hits the ump on that hit
3rd chance for giambi to ground a ball through the left side for a run.
jenn, here’s one answer: it would have hurt!
Remy is being really classy and saying good things about Yankee Stadium and all of its history
too bad he’s stuck with Orsillo
Though I’m eating crow right now…it actually tastes pretty good.
Yes…I’m one of the doubters who said Wang was no ace.
1-hitter…WOW!
GO YANKS!
If Wang pitches a 1 hit CG, I’m never going to forgive Abreu. Wang deserves some major publicity, he’s way underrated. Well, not that he needs anymore in his own country, but he could use some more here!
why you scared of Molina Terry
Our clutch hitter coming up with the bases loaded.
Francona pulling Okajima in this game speaks volumes for what he thinks about his bull pen.
Pulling Okajima there pretty much says, I think it’s highly unlikely that my team is going to win this game so I’m going to save my bullets for the rest of the series.
Shows you how concerned Francona is with Okajima’s work load and how little confidence he has in his other relievers to hold a late lead that they may (or may not) get over the next two games
They said that Gator was more of a mental pitcher, and Esland (sp) is more mechanical.
Uh oh. Bases loaded. We haven’t been doing well in this situation.
Theres no crying in babseball!!!
Giambi walks and there’s another pitching change. Bases juiced for Molina, who is on fire.
It would be awesome if Molina could hit another double and put this thing away.
bases loaded..up next-Molina!
Tseng,
if Wang pitches like this, he’ll get more shots at that no-hitter
but yes, what could have been if Abreu could get off the ground at all
Drew that would be perfect!
Just logging in.
Duncan — another HR at Scranton.
Boston Dave, I aqree. Orsillo is a loser.
giambis not good enough anymore for him to just dismiss hitting the ball the other way when the shift is on and runners are in scoring position.
Another 2B from Mr. Double coming up?
Saw this over at RAB – Molina leads the league in doubles right now.
CB I swear sometimes I think you would make a good baseball manager
CB,
the Sox only two dependable guys are Pap and Okajima…. BOTH of whom are at least semi-concerns to be tired or injured by the end of the season.
they tired out Okajima last season and we know they keep a close watch on Papelbon.
the lack of depth is going to kill them this season
But guys. You don’t know that the game would have proceeded the same.
Anyway don’t blame Abreu. He tried to catch it and made two great catches right before that. Blame Michael Kay. I’m sure it’s his fault entirely.
a few more runs and Wang can go all the way
i believe there are 2 duncans at scranton so ill assume you meant shelley
S.o.S. 27
April 11th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
“And Manny poses for the foul ball. Keepin it classy.â€
He should stay consistant and pose after a strike out. Now that would be classy.
boston dave,
maybe he was trying to be classy.
if Jose comes through here…. all star team!
Bosox used 5 pitchers in less than 8 innings while Wang is still going strong! Come on, Wang haters please give Wang some credit that he deserves although he might not care about it.
2 games in a row with several players having multiple hit games. That’s a good sign
why do pitchers point in the air when there is a pop-up? do they think they are the only ones who see it?
Dave,
But it’s against the freakin Red Sox. That no hitter is worth 2x more than regular ones… =(
Hear, hear, Boston Dave and Tseng.
Season is still early, I look forward to see more brilliant performances by Wang this year.
if the Yankees get another run, Wang definately comes back in for the entire 8th… then Mo.
mjr, I already paid hommage to CM. But I don’t think either of us said he was no good, just that the jury was still out and we just wanted to see him throw some consecutive good games – which he sure has done!
Jose sure is making him work
Shelley –2 in 2 games
They point to it because sometimes fielders can lose the ball in the sun or, in this case, the lights.
Anyone gonna crap on Molina now?
Good. Don’t.
Wang is pitching like a #1 tonight. let him pitch the complete game, it will shake up the Red Sox, having a guy pitch a complete game vs. then in Fenway…good early season message……Wang 3-0, cy young year???? By the way I have always though of Wang as a #2, maybe this is the year he moves to a true ace, Sox announcers are saying this is the best they have ever seen him pitch in Fenway and that his velocity is at 95..and that pitch count is sick!!!
no allstar game for Molina
Nah, if Wang gets through these hitters quickly, he’s going to go the distance.
Tseng and Hong-Yeh
It would be much sweeter against the Sox but I am happy that Wang is still making them look silly.
all I heard about today (in Boston) is how Ortiz and Manny own Wang. well, the tables have been turned tonight.
Wang is locked in and has been all season so far.
Joe G. could do what Joe T. used to do and put Wang on a hitter by hitter pitch count. He’d have to have someone at the ready if things got dicey. We all know that 2 runs in fenway isn’t worth much.
i’ve played ball my whole life, i can understand pointing for the catcher but for the rest of the fielders? i dunno looks dumb!
Brandon,
we still need to write him in
cmon wanng! you can do it!
“He only discovered the sinker in 2004 and that transformed his approach.”
right you are cb.wang’s minor league pitching coach, neil allen noticed he had the right arm slot for a sinker and changed his sinker grip similar to the one allen threw when he was in his prime in the majors. wang is to a large degree allen’s creation. eiland ironically was an allen teammate on a billy martin yankee team in the late eighties. so there is some yankee cross pollination going on with wang with eiland tweaking him now. righetti was also on that team.
i also think that kennedy is going to have a great game in tampa on monday. warm weather, not ice cold or raining buckets is just what the dr ordered for ian.
great game thus far guys. it’s been fun but i’m gonna finish watching the game and then move on to other things. GO YANKEES! night.
i think i just saw schilling in the stands screaming “lets go red sox” hahaha
Agghh bases loaded twice and they get nothing. Posada doesn’t hit with 2nd and 3rd but gets a hit now. Molina got hits before so I can’t say anything about him. But I hope that it doesn’t come back to hurt them.
“the lack of depth is going to kill them this season”
This is the yankee’s biggest relative advantage versus the sox.
And this really has very little to do with how much money the yankees have.
They have stockpiled talent from so many directions and now it’s paying dividends.
The bull pen has been strong all season and now the bench and organizational depth is paying off.
Just look at how well Alberto Gonzalez is playing. Nothing spectacular but doing everything right – all the way down to the sacrifice.
We’ve all seen how huge molina has been with Jorge’s injury.
The red sox also have a 36 year old catcher. Their back up catcher is Keith Cash – he’s one of the worst players in all of baseball.
It’s easy to lose the ball and when the ball’s in the air, most people will point it out in case the one who has to catch it can’t find it.
Joba warming up
I dont know if he should be yet? he pitched more than an inning last night but I guess better safe than sorry
Wow – Michael Kay actually said something that made sense – “The only reason the Sox are even still in this game is because the Yanks are still not getting hits with runners in scoring position.”
haha mets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2JzcymzWBQ
Dave,
To be fair, Ortiz is a wounded animal right now. But, I’m going to ignore that and just revel in Wang’s great performance tonight. I actually traded to get him on my fantasy team last week and I’m glad I did.
FYI…Gonzalez DID wander too far off the bag and got doubled off….right ?….( I’m just sayin’ )
Wang should apologize to Abreu for making him have to move.
I don’t think Chamberlain should be up.
Good play by Abreu
randy,
I completely forgot that Wang’s pitching coach then was neil allen. Thanks for pointing that out. Great story.
We know how the team has changed it’s approach to the draft.
But to go along with that the Cashman has put into place a fantastic minor league coaching/ development system.
So that settles who comes out for the 9th inning too. What a great game!
“Brandon,
we still need to write him in”
ballot stuffing time
wow..wang just gave the bull pen a day off. actually they got two days off with andy’s game last night (except for joba and mo)
12 LOB for the Yanks.
Sheeeeesh
Wang will go the distance. This is maybe the best he has ever looked on the mound. What makes it so much better is that he usually struggles at Fenway seeing as his career E.R.A. there was over 6 before the game started. Go Wang!
Wang definitely gets the 9th: only 78 pitches. Save the pen!
saffron risotto!
CaptinCorner
Abreu should apologize to Wang for not catching Drew’s flyout and cost him a Perfect Game
Wang is dealing tonight. Let him finish the game and save the bullpen for one night. With Mussina up tomorrow they’ll definitely need the pen.
Sign Wang for a long-term contract!
Wang really does look great. But I hate when pitchers in this day and age start the 9th inning. I know they always used to do it in the old days, but I have seen it too many times where the pitcher is left in with not a lot of room for error and he gives it up in the 9th. Like they know they only need 3 more outs and they force it and then lose it.
Whats this “tough decision for girardi” talk from Kay?
Wang has been dominant tonight. Period.
Leave him in.
Wang is still mowing them down. 78 pitches. This guy is going to throw a complete game. And guess what, he’s still not tired.
Anyone that really thinks Wang isn’t an ace needs to rethink things. Stop comparing him the Beckett. He’s not Beckett. He’s Wang, and I’ll take him any day.
Mark-it wouldn’t be a perfect game because a runner reached first. It’d be a no-hitter.
I would let Wang pitch the 9th. He has a low pitch count and he is in a grove.
Bobby owes Wang something.. might of cost him a no hitter.
I think this is Wang’s game. At this point you can’t take him out.
Mark,
Not a perfect game. “error” by a-rod. no hitter though =(
GONZO
?
I’ve always loved Wang but had to admit that he was a step below the guys who were the premier power sinker guys in baseball – Halladay an Webb. I’d even have to put Carmona last year on that level above Wang.
This season Wang looks like a different beast. The whole season and especially tonight Wang is throwing a game that is as good as any Hallady or Webb would throw when they are on.
What’s going on? Joba’s getting up? 1 run lead, 2? Wangs’s pitch count?
thx
Can they score Abreus bounce off glove homerun an error?
The Attorney General just signed off on on a Boston torture memo.
AG with a double!!
Steph
Sigh at A-Rod’s error I guess /shrug
A gold watch enough?
AG with a double
DUDE! how about alberto??
who said he couldn’t hit??
3 hits in three games for A-Gonz.
Gonzalez is doing a pretty nice job filling in.
Wow, this Gonzalez kid is a great addition. Take your time and get healthy Derek.
good bunt Melky
No one is up.
Ladies and Gentlemen you are looking at the starting pitcher for the American League All Star team. Yea that Wang isn’t a Number 1. Who cares about a label. The guy will still be the most winning pitcher in the last 3 years when this year is done. Pretty damn good – but heeeeeee’s no #1 – ROFLMAO
This is WANG’s Year where it all comes together – there is no pressure -everybody thought he was overrated coming in. He’ll be 11-2 2.89 starting the ALL Star game.
Any news on FARNSWORTH being traded?
TRADE FARNSWORTH
Gonzo has looked really good. Maybe he can be the SS when Jeter eventually has to move to 1st. Can Cano actually do something productive here???
GIVE Wang the 9th Joe!
Here is a chance for cano to break out of it
That’s a good bunt. Good job Melky.
2-1 Rangers with 1:07 to go in the game
If Cano doesn’t get this run in, his name is dirt.
Cano sucks, maybe Alberto can play 2nd.
damn Robi has some bad ABs this month
Do you guys hear that? It’s Pete getting ready to remind us all again for the millionth time that CMW is a true ace. If Pete was so secure about that conclusion, I doubt he would feel compelled to constantly remind us about it all the time.
That was one of the most pathetic at bats I have ever seen. What a moron he is..
cano is pathetic right now
Boo robbie. More boo.
Yet another quality at bat from Melky. Does exactly what is needed in that situation.
Have to love what Gonzalez and Melky are bringing to this game.
1/3 the yankees starting line up tonight is 25 years old or younger.
When’s the last time that’s happened?
Alex or someone needs to pull Robbie aside. We can’t let his poor ab get in his head. He is better than this, we all know it.
Wang is at 78 pitches, the Yanks have a 3-1 lead, and nobody’s warming. Wang is going to finish what he started.
Melky’s entire offensive game is really coming together. He had so much trouble last year laying down the sacrafice bunt but gets it done today, after a sac fly.
Cano has to get that run in.
Remember that 2-run game winning (or game tieing?) homerun by Zimmerman off Wang??
Just saying. May happen here too.
Can’t wait for Cano to snap out of his funk
nice job Bobby !
Any other time, he’s pulling the ball. That time, Robbie tries to go the other way…with a man on 3B. What a tool!
good thing yanks gave him all that money. he doesn’t have to do crap for the next 4 years
Nice gave us another run.
Thanks Bobby.
CaptainsCorner, Bobby Abreu, you mean the only Yankee who had been generating any offense for a while there is now wearing goat’s horns?
Come on. The guy has caught everything out there tonight and he is one hell of a ball player. The guy never whines and complains. (which is why he’s the player and not a fan I guess…)
Anyway, nobody will ever see me get on a Yankee player during a game unless that player is really dogging it, like Manny does running to base. Other than that they are always heroes to me – because they are out there giving it their best.
Or are they not allowed to fail but the rest of us are? Yankee robots, the rest of us human?
Abreu makes up for allowing Nancy to run around the bases.
Ok, Bobby hustled out of the box to make up for his Wang-no-hitter mess up =) Nice.
Robi will break out of it, give him his time we know what he can do
Abreu gets Gonzalez home! 4-1 Yanks
Nice hustle, Bobby! He definitely needed that. Now there can’t be any question whatsoever about Wang coming out in the 9th. Which there wasn’t anyway, but this is better.
Nice Bobby!
4-1 Yanks
Bobby, this does not make amends for your missed catch. He better hit around 70 homers this year to make amends.
way to go bobby!
“If Pete was so secure about that conclusion, I doubt he would feel compelled to constantly remind us about it all the time.”
Or, perhaps he’s just aggravated by the throngs of people who, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, continue to say that Wang’s not an “ace” because of one bad post-season.
BOBAY!!
RANGERS WIN 2-1!
trisha 100% right. How many times did we see Manny and Ortiz dogging it tonight. Not that I have a problem with it. But if they were on my team! the way Manny went after balls that hit off the wall!!
Huge insurance run. That gives wang some wiggle room in the ninth so Mo gets the night off.
Zimmerman’s shot last year was a game winner, unfortunately
“Or, perhaps he’s just aggravated by the throngs of people who, despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, continue to say that Wang’s not an “ace†because of one bad post-season.”
Those people were around way before last year’s postseason. Although that postseason certainly just added to the fire.
cb-
i like it that there is a yankee lineage back to billy martin with wang. billy martin really liked allen. the story goes allen was slighted by jack clark when he was a st louis captain when allen was traded from the cardinals at mid season. clark voted no world series share for allen which goes against baseball norm. allen told clark he’d see him down the road. well that happened when allen was a fringe yankee walk on when clark was the big yankee free agent signing. allen said what the hell and drilled clark in the back on the first pitch in live bp in spring training. allen figured he was off the team and he walked off the mound , but billy martin asked him why he drilled clark. allen told him and billy said clark deserved it to get back out on the mound.neil was a martin favorite from then on.
guidry,allen, righetti, tommy john, eiland, and al leiter were also on that 1988 yankee team.
http://www.baseball-reference......1988.shtml
HENRIK !!!
HENRIK !!!
HENRIK !!!
FIRE ISIAH !!! FIRE ISIAH !!! FIRE ISIAH !!!
trisha: Abreu’s offense has nothing to do with the fact that he can never remember that the wall does not have fire on it.
Hey Peter this can become an interesting scenario once Jeter is back and Shelley is eligible to be brought up maybe a good question for Joe G once the time comes. Who do you go with Alberto Gonzalez or Wilson Betemit?Would you keep him on this team and risk the chance of losing Betemit as he has no options? I’m a huge Betemit fan but would be willing to take the risk. Alberto Gonzalez seems to be the perfect player for Girardi, a guy with a glove and can handle the bat with bunting. He has impressed me thus far. It’s not like he’s going to improve his hitting at Triple-A as he is just not known for his hitting. His glove is great and he gives us an actual Middle Infielder.
We have, once Shelley comes back, on the bench:
A guy who can play 3B and 1B in Ensberg
A guy who can play outfield and 1B in Shelley although very below average
Both hurt lefties
Alberto Gonzalez who gives us a true Middle Infielder and can control the bat
And Betemit plays 1B and 3B and K’s a ton what is the point of him.
Plus Betemit is horrendous vs. Lefties and he sure isn’t getting ABs against righties.
Shelly Duncan was 1 for 4 with a HR and a BB tonight for Scranton. He’s hitting .556 in his brief time down there.
Melky is the future Jeter. Not the homerun hitter and things he does wont show up in the stat sheet. The little things to win games.
Melky = Jeter
How is that the play of the game?
Please I’m begging you, get that Ranger hockey garbage outta here!!
It’s a Saturday morning ball game broadcast live in Taiwan, they sure are enjoying this ballgame right here!! Go Taiwan!!
my tv isn’t working so can someone tell me who’s coming out for the ninth?
UMMM HOW IS JD DREW’S HOME RUN THE GEICO PLAY OF THE GAME?
Gardner was 2 for 5 with a 2B and is hitting .333 on the year.
Rasner got the win with six innings of one run ball.
I want there to be a solid single to center in the 9th.
As a Mariano Rivera fantasy baseball owner, let me register an official complaint. No save last night with the two HR’s and Wang’s gem leaves Mo on the bench in this situation.
As a Yankee fan, let me just say, shut up Jeff NJ.
Is anyone’s heart pounding now?
lets go WANG!!!
cmon baby!
Abreau is wall averse, any Phillies fan will tell you that. My coworker, a Philly native, reminds me everytime Bobay flees the wall.
LC,
Lugo then Crisp, then game over
Let’s Go CMW!!
Wang is out for the 9th. He’s got 1 out so far.
Can there be any debate as to whether or not Wang is an ace??? He’s arguably the best pitcher in baseball right now and entering his peak at 28!
Jennifer not really, because I actually trust Wang more than last season
“Abreu’s offense has nothing to do with the fact that he can never remember that the wall does not have fire on it.”
a) the problem on that play was that he got too CLOSE to the wall.
b) his production as a hitter more than makes up for whatever defensive flaws you might think he has. Remember, a dirty uni does not a useful player make.
“Alberto Gonzalez who gives us a true Middle Infielder and can control the bat”
The one issue with Gonzalez and its a big one is that he has very, very little experience playing second base.
He’s almost exclusively been a SS. Don’t think/ know he can play 2nd at the major league level.
Wang is throwing 95 in the 9th inning. Impressive.
captain, he’s not used to the wall at fenway, and he did bump right up against it!
Every member of that team is an integral part of it, and every one will play a part in getting us number 27. Conversely, every one of them will have his share of dog days. It’s part of the game!
ROBBY CANO WILL BE FINE. He wants to get going as badly as you all want him to. When hitters are slumping, what do they start to do? Press. They find their way out of it. Robby will also.
WANG IS SO UNAPPRECIATED!
Go Wang!
1 MORE OUT
(AG)…”can control the bat”
Limited sample size up in the majors. In the minors, his hitting is suspect.
1 more out. Wang has been absolutely stellar.
cheap hit cereal
“Melky is the future Jeter. Not the homerun hitter and things he does wont show up in the stat sheet. The little things to win games.
Melky = Jeter”
I hate when people say that Jeter’s value is not in the stat sheets. It’s all over the stats sheets. If anything, his intangibles are what’s overrated. His tangible value is very evident during his Yankee career by just looking at his career numbers.
And by the way – I agree with Steph and those who said that Arod’s error should have been scored a hit. So think of it as two hits. Now make that three.
GET OFF BOBBY!
l)
CHEAP HIT!! UGH!! I wonder if Alex had a better shot at it?
“As a Mariano Rivera fantasy baseball owner, let me register an official complaint. No save last night with the two HR’s and Wang’s gem leaves Mo on the bench in this situation.
As a Yankee fan, let me just say, shut up Jeff NJ.”
Heh, how about this suckout? I’m a Rafael Soriano owner. My opponent for the week (head to head 5×5 scoring) has no closers, but has Moylan (deep 20 team league). I’m down 1 save to 0 on the week now
1 MORE OUT!!
Wang Melky and Gonzo have me stunned in enjoyment right now… Robbie Thompsom where were you on that
damn you coco puffs!!
I would have been realliy pissed if there wasn’t already a hit in this game. Freakin bunt for a base hit!
Time to empty out the tank! Finish these SOB’s!
Lame
Gah. Crisp bunts his way on.
kudos to crisp, great play
ahh what a pansy
That run last inning was huge. Gave Wanger just enough comfort.
GO WANGER!
Finish them off Wang !!
c’mon Wang!
Pardon the language, but that was a bitch move by Crisp to bunt his way on.
Now I am really nervous!
BRILLIANT GAME WANG !!!!
I HEART WANG. 3-0. Sweet.
Both hits irk me
Jesus that scared me!
That was a great game by Wang!! 3-0!! Nice job!
CMW WHat can i say ACE!!!
Dammit…..Bran Flakes drops a bunt to slime out a hit…LOSER ! ;-(
Nice win!
Great job by Wang!
CMW pitches a gem and complete game. Great start for the series!!
Joba and Mo both got a rest, which could be crucial to the next few games.
Let’s hope Moose pitches a game like his last outing. Go Yanks!!
The other issue with Gonzalez is that he’s still just hitting fastballs. Can he hit major league breaking pitches? I’ve not seen enough in the minors to convince me that he could be a legit hitter in the majors. And he’s not been groomed as a utility guy, at least not at this point.
The Yankees win…. copmplete game victory!!! Yeessss!! CMW was awesome tonight.
Awesome performance by Cy Wang. Way to give the pen the night off.
GOD BLESS CM WANG!!!!!
WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And finally,
YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice game all. Well I’m 1/3 of the way to having my prediction come out correct.
So Trisha I guess Wang wasn’t tired back in the 4th inning like you thought……
Sorry guys I couldn’t resist.
WANG!!!
you thought you’d never see it in your lifetime, a full 9-inning yankees-red sox game in under 3 hours, but there it is.
im watching on mbl.com and its nesn but i can just hear the glee in michael kay’s voice.
Limited sample size up in the majors. In the minors, his hitting is suspect.
Referring to Alberto Gonzalez. He is not known for his hitting more for his defensive abilities but anyone who can lay down a bunt and can take a couple of pitches as a backup and No. 9 hitter deserves a spot compared to an all or nothing guy who strikes out a ton.
The yankee’s winning a 4-1 game at fenway without having to use either Joba or Mo is enormous.
Boston has given Wang fits in the past.
For a pitcher to come in and throw this kind of masterpiece at Fenway with the offense struggling speaks volumes.
It’s still early but this is exactly the kind of game great pitcher’s throw – pitcher’s who are merely good don’t throw these kind of games often at all. Not in this big a spot.
Last year, even when he beat the Sox, he never threw like this. I don’t think Wang has ever thrown this well over a 3 game stretch.
I’m not saying he has because it’s too early. But if Wang has taken that next step forward then the Yankee’s become a very, very dangerous team especially when you combine that with the way the bull pen is throwing.
Tonight we may have seen the maturation of a very good pitcher to that next, elite level.
“Can there be any debate as to whether or not Wang is an ace??? He’s arguably the best pitcher in baseball right now and entering his peak at 28!”
I won’t argue that he’s not an ace. However, there are around 20 pitchers in baseball who are probably better than him. And even if you don’t want to take it that far, you certainly can’t call him the best in baseball. Santana and Peavy are worlds ahead of every other pitcher in the game.
French Canadian,
Even his best friend said a few years ago that Jeter doesnt scare him on the yankees lineup. He’s my favolite player. It was a compliment. He does things others dont want to do.
This is gonna be a great weekend!!!
Unfortunately, I too own Mo on my team
Still, Yanks wins are something I’ll always take
Complete game for Wang! 4-1 win for the Yanks. Wang was stellar. Beyond stellar. I’m sure that the Yankee bullpen will give him a huge hand for that performance. Heck, I’m lining up to give him a hug for tonight. Great game.
How was that a b**** move?
That was good baseball. Way to get on for Crisp.
maybe its just me but Jason is always hitting big HR’s at Fenway
What a great game by Wang. The only chance Crisp has to reach base is to bunt.
Weird outing from Wang. Usually when he gets that many fly balls he does badly.
What a fun game to watch, thank you CM Wang and the rest. Great way to start the season series with the BoSox and a great continuation of Wang’s season, I really think he’s going to break through that 20-win barrier this year and have solid momentum going into the postseason.
And Giambi’s homer might be the most significant development of the game if he keeps it up.
one hitter…as I won’t count Boo Berry’s Bunt in the 9th…..NICE GAME BoSux !!! BRING OUT THE TROLLS !
“Sorry guys I couldn’t resist”
Just your way of drawing attention to yourself. Pathetic. Like they could care if you said something or didn’t.
Dwarf. “WAND”
Timlin’s ERA is 54.00. LOL!
Definition of Jack@$$ = Westerner99
The one to A Rod was an error. True A Rod made a good play on it, but the ball beat the runner to 1st, a good throw had him. That is the definition of an error.
did anyone already post that Jose Reyes had to leave with a hamstring injury?
pretty amazing i was reading in all the fantasy blogs how you had to sit wang tonight cause the sox just owned him at the green rathole.
“Santana and Peavy are worlds ahead of every other pitcher in the game.”
Santana is world ahead of Jake Peavy.
Santana is a historically great pitcher. If he’s you’re standard then every other pitcher pales by comparison.
“He does things others dont want to do.”
That’s not true. He’s very good at baseball, and that’s why we love him so much. He does things that every other player that is good at baseball does.
That was a great pitching performance by Wang. A complete game is a rarity these days.
Trisha – let’s hope your preddictions keep coming true.
Exceptional, Wanger.
Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve got an ACE!
French Canadian
Your analysis of Wang is way off. He is one of the top 10 pitchers in baseball and a true ace.
Perhaps you should stick to hockey.
Hey miggs – Pete said he has your adult Depends ready!
Sorry guys, I just couldn’t resist.
Another nice thing about this game is that it didn’t take 10 hours and everyone pitcher on the roster (especially ahead of Moose tomorrow)
I agree CB. Santana is by far the best. But I would also say there is a big gap between Peavy and the next best guy.
Baltimore is blowing it in Tampa.
Great game! Good to see the young guys out there handle the pressure.
He looked like Chien-Ming Young tonight. Pitch efficiency was sick!…and NO BBs. Impressive!
Don – no, it is the definition of someone who knows baseball. Had Melky or Jeter did it, people would be falling all over themselves to say what a great move it was and how gritty it was.
Baseless namecalling is unnecessary. Grow up.
It can’t be understated how much CMW may have contributed to a rested bullpen. Volumes.
French Canadian…what’s your point? at any given time there can be 20 other great pitchers. Good pitchers get WINS. Wang has won against Halladay and no-hitter Bucholz…give cred where cred is due. 3-0, enough said.
Boston Dave – I am surprised the Mets are playing. I live about 10 minutes from Shea and it is so foggy that you can not see 2 feet in front of you.
With AG on the team, whats Bettimit’s role?
Seems very redundant.
Duncan would appear to be a better option.
“Weird outing from Wang. Usually when he gets that many fly balls he does badly.”
This is why you can hope that Wang is maturing as a pitcher.
This season he’s using a different approach and mix of pitches to get hitter’s out.
Wang’s attack this season has been much more diversified and varied.
He’s giving hitters different looks. They can’t just sit back and expect the two seamer sinking out of the zone.
If Cash & Girardi don’t DFA Betemit and keep Gonzales, Majambo is going to be upset. He’s a major upgrade even if he comes back to Earth.
Hey fran, I predicted (at least) two out of three. Well, I guess I’m half way there and not a third of the way. Right?
Give me my $600,000 Stein!
boston dave,
I wonder if its the same hamstring he hurt a couple years ago?
Now all of the pitchers have had time to recover and we’ve got a full pen ready for the rest of the series. Andy and Wang both did wonderful jobs helping out the team when they really needed some huge pitching performances.
French Canadian,
Please start naming the 20 better….id love to see this list…
That was the most exceptional pitching performance I have ever seen. Such finesse by Wang. Only 93 pitches, wow, what a pitcher.
Let me tell you, the “bar” mood here in Boston is definitely not the same as last years April Yankee Sox matchup, when Rivera and Co. blew that 5 or so run lead. Wang was dominant, and the fans knew it. It felt GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD to be out and about in that, but I have to contain my joy when I see it. Good omen, if you ask me.
For those saying Wang is an ace, I’ll agree, but this is not the same Wang as past years. Thsis is new and improved Wang. His starts this season have been some of the best in his career, and they’ve been consistently good so far. He’s elevated his game, and is simply a better pitcher now. He just shut Boston down. Boston has tended to own him, if I’m not mistaken.
Great game, but still would’ve liked to see more 2-out RBIs.
“However, there are around 20 pitchers in baseball who are probably better than him.”
Define “better”
Is Carmona better? He’s had one good year. Burnett? Probably has more dominating stuff, but can’t stay on the field for a full season.
Also, Peavey’s an excellent pitcher…but he also plays half his games in the best pitcher’s park there is. Put him in the AL in a neutral park and I’m sure he comes back to earth somewhat.
King Felix has incredible stuff, but Wang’s put up better results than him for both of the last two years.
So…ok, list these 20 pitchers.
Westerner99 = Know It All Jack@$$ ! ( is that better ? );-)
I am loving Eiland as the pitching coach. Every one said that Wang needed to pitch inside and develop his other pitches if he wanted to be a better pitcher and the 1st day of spring training Eiland made sure it happened. I knew that Wang was great in his first 2 starts but I was curious to see how he would be tonight because he has really struggled against Boston and especially in Fenway..but he obviously aced the test. Now this will give him more confidence the next time he faces them. Can we get a Wang post game interview? I doubt it.
Easy on the Gonzalez hype…he has only been here for a few games. He still needs to prove he can hit consistently and also prove he can play 2B or 3B. In the minors, he has little experience outside of SS.
“I won’t argue that he’s not an ace. However, there are around 20 pitchers in baseball who are probably better than him. And even if you don’t want to take it that far, you certainly can’t call him the best in baseball. Santana and Peavy are worlds ahead of every other pitcher in the game.”
I said best pitcher in baseball RIGHT NOW, and at a very dominant 3-0 against some very tough teams I don’t think it can be disputed. Is he the first pitcher you’d pick if you’re building a new team, probably not. But he has absolutely earned his place as no worse than one of baseball’s top 5 pitchers (more wins than ANYONE since 2006) and at a pretty young 28 in terms of innings pitched, his future looks even more promising. Now we just need to add some post-season success to his resume!
Everyone knows that French Canadians are the worst kinds of people around.
They’re French and Canadian, I double hate them.
Woohoo, go CMW! I’m so glad he was able to get the complete game shutout, those are so rare these days. I can hear Fenway park from my apartment two blocks away, and there was definitely way less cheering tonight than usual, the loudest cheer was probably when A-Rod made the error.
Had Alex made a clean throw and Abreu not blown it in the outfield, we could have witnessed a perfect game.
Great job by Wang who’s always had trouble with the Sox!
I don’t know what to take from wang’s outing. Did wang’s refining of his pitches help him or are the redsox just having a bad time offensively?
^^ ack I mean not a shutout. Need preview button!
Orioles just went down 9-5!!
Don – grow up. It is sad when a grown man resorts to name calling because they disagree with an opinion. It degrades the board as a whole.
jeff nj, it was not an error according to Remy and Remy is not a homer, and I definitely agree with him. NESN showed the play is slo mo and Arod really had to dip down to get it. Because he is athletic does not mean that the play should have been made.
I thought it was a hit, though I was happy when it was scored an error.
I like Peavy over Santana. But that’s just me. Oh, and I’ll take Wang over both of them any day of the week.
“The one to A Rod was an error. True A Rod made a good play on it, but the ball beat the runner to 1st, a good throw had him. That is the definition of an error.”
that was the worse error call I have ever seen in sometime, they didn’t even factor he dove to keep it in play and tried to throw out a speedy runt. It was a hit they just wanted to make sure a PG didn’t go on a cheapy
——
what happened to Jose ?
“With AG on the team, whats Bettimit’s role?”
Obviously, Gonzo doesn’t need to be on the team when Jeter is back to playing every day. He doesn’t play 2nd, and has no track record at AAA that convinces me he won’t be overmatched by major league breaking pitches.
Did we win yet?
the original SP – didn’t Crisp’s bunt count as a hit?
“But I would also say there is a big gap between Peavy and the next best guy.”
Really? Go take a look at what Brandon Webb has done over his career.
Between him and Peavey it’s not even close. Peavey has had two outstanding years, and one of which (2004) he only threw 166 innings.
I also disagree about 20 pitcher’s being better than Wang and I’m not a guy who insists Wang is an elite level arm.
And you’re critique of Wang assumes that he isn’t going to or can’t get better.
Tell me how many pitcher’s became elite level pitcher’s within the first three years of their career?
Wang has been making adjustments to keep people from waiting on the sinker. He’s changing it up and adding different pitches into each AB to get the hitters off-balance.
1.23 ERA. Can’t get a whole lot better than that.
Nice to be 6-5 while averaging 3.18 runs/game. If we can keep pitching like this, we WILL start hitting and really be tough to beat.
Trisha – if (when) the Yanks win tomorrow you can change your prediction.
Westerner99 = High and Mighty, Know It ALL, Keeper of the board Jack( nah, I can’t do it again )….Know this, anything that a man that is named after a breakfast cereal that plays for the Boston Demons ( I mean Red Sux ),,is, by the purest of all that is Yankee Holy, cheap and low….GOT IT, MEESTER ?
WANG!!! a great game.
I think Wang was giving up flyballs because he was mixing in some regular fastballs to keep the Sox honest on his sinker.
You can only go as far as your pitching takes you. So far, the pitchers have really been doing a good job. Especially ones named Wang.
Ben Sheets is certainly one example on how some pitchers need a few years under their belt to cross the elite threshold.
Here are 20 guys I’d rather have in my rotation than Wang, not necessarily in this order
Santana
Peavy
Webb
Beckett
Sabathia
Hamels
Bedard
Harang
Smoltz
Verlander
Kazmir
Haren
Zambrano
Lackey
Oswalt
Halladay
F. Hernandez
Cain
Lincecum
Sheets
Penny, Matsuzaka, Hudson, Burnett, and Carmona might also be in the discussion. I’d say Wang is somewhere around 20th or so, plus or minus a couple. I’d have to think about it more, obviously.
“I am loving Eiland as the pitching coach. Every one said that Wang needed to pitch inside and develop his other pitches if he wanted to be a better pitcher and the 1st day of spring training Eiland made sure it happened.”
I like Eiland as well but quite honestly with Wang this is laregely work he did by himself in the off season back in Taiwan.
When he left Cleveland last year after that disaster in the playoffs Wang said he needed to work on his secondary pitches and that he was going to spend the winter doing so.
All I’m saying is we know what Betemit is as a bench player and he just is not very good and I’m a big Betemit fan.
Great W
AG looks like he has no interest in returning to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.
Shelley looks like he has strong interest in returning to New York.
Earth to Wilson Betemit …… HELLO !!!!!
Fran, it would be great if we can get it over with tomorrow!
D-Train got hurt I heard
I thought Wang did most of his off-season throwing in Arizona
Ben Sheets hasn’t crossed 12 wins! Elite? NOT!
Great win tonight. I know its early but this is the defending champs? Clearly, they were a fluke last year and they look pitiful. Wang was dominant, despite all of the pop ups. Moose comes up big tomorrow and the Phranchise goes for the sweep on Sunday.
David Cone has never met a camera he doesn’t like. He hasn’t taken his eyes off staring straight into the camera!
I think Peavy is much much better than Webb, even though Webb is probably the next best guy.
“and has no track record at AAA that convinces me he won’t be overmatched by major league breaking pitches.”
Take a look at what he did in the second half of last year at AAA.
He was terrific. Hit around .330 or so as I remember.
Also tore it up in the Venezuelan league – a very good winter ball league in which a lot of major leaguers (Miggy Cabrera, etc.) play in.
No argument:
Chien-Ming Wang = ACE
OMG I’m laughing so hard. OK, French Canadian, you can have those pitchers. I’ll take Wang any day. I’ve always been a contrarian. I HEART WANG.
French Canadian = new King of the Jack@$$e$….sorry Westerner99, you are now OUT !
( in fact, I actually am sorry if I offended you, just having a little fun at your expense,,,feel free to do the same to me…I just really really really don’t like that punk for many reasons, not the least of which is that he plays for the ENEMY !…But I agree, if the only way you can get on with 2 outs and nobody on, when your suck@$$ team has only one hit is to try to drag a bunt, then that is a pretty good indication of how well you think you’d fare taking a full swing, right ?
Don, it is people like you that drove all of the regulars from last year away from the board. What used to be lively baseball discussion/analysis during the games has resorted to name calling, petty squabbles, ridiculous suggestions, and massive amounts of trolling. Maybe I’ll try again in a week or so…sorry Pete, I and some of your other regulars still would recommend registration.
ah French Canadian, I actually traded Verlander, Oswalt, and Huston Street for Wang and Dan Haren, and Chipper and I’m glad I did. Oswalt is going to have a subpar year, I think, and thus far he has.
Also, pretty cheap play by Coco-puffs with the bunt in the 9th inning. Was he trying to show Wang up? Typical boston/new england – NC – no class.
Wang is Yankee’s ACE, period.
3-0 with minimal run support, way to go Wanger!!
trisha Yeah you are right. It’s like he doesn’t know where to look.
Matuszaka? yikes
“I think Peavy is much much better than Webb, even though Webb is probably the next best guy.”
Then you have never looked at how the two have performed and aren’t looking at their ERA+ to adjust for the extreme pitcher’s park Peavey performs in.
There is no comparison. Webb has been consistently outstanding over several years and Pevey has not.
Wang just made a major statement to himself, Yankee FO, and to the American League…..Just looks like a more seasoned pitcher….By the way, Clay Bucholtz is going to be a pain the behind for years to come…No melt down like last year’s Friday night when Torre yanked Pettite too early and bring Rivera in without any real warming up…..Yanks get deep into the Boston pen, we’ll see the benefits by Sunday night if not sooner…..Someone brings up a good point about Betemit, Duncan and Gonzales….
Nice to see Godzilla come out of the blocks so strong this season – it’s a MAJOR plus if this guy can return to form.
I have Oswalt!! He has been horrible this year! Gave up 8 runs tonight!!
Tseng, I also agree that Oswalt may be in the midst of a decline. The Astros are screwed if that’s the case.
Coco’s move is just pure baseball, nothing to be offended by.
It wasn’t a cheap play. It was legit. If Wang had a no-no going, it would have been cheap. The Sox were within 3 with their better hitters coming up.
Elite in terms that he needed a few years under his belt to figure out how to pitch to an elite level. Edwin Jackson himself is also displaying some signs of being a very decent pitcher for the rays.
“Here are 20 guys I’d rather have in my rotation than Wang”
Picking young pitchers who have raw talent makes no sense.
There is no way Tim Lincecum right now is better than Wang. Lincecum walked almost 5 hitters per game.
Lincecum has more talent that Wang but is not a better pitcher right now.
Same thing for a ton of guys on your list – Cain, etc. Cole Hamels? Couldn’t even stay healthy last year.
I can’t believe you’d even try to support your tenuous argument with Ben Sheets – a guy who can’t stay healthy at all and a guy who the Brewers are going to let walk after this year.
Is it just me or does John Flaherty looks like Hitler?
“Then you have never looked at how the two have performed and aren’t looking at their ERA+ to adjust for the extreme pitcher’s park Peavey performs in.
There is no comparison. Webb has been consistently outstanding over several years and Pevey has not.”
I am not saying who has BEEN the best. Webb has the better track record. But right now if you had to pick one of them for 2008 and the next few seasons, who’s you take? Peavy or Webb? I think Peavy is much better, and I’m very confident in picking him over Webb in that regard.
Is it me, or does this Westerner99 character seem a little too uptight ? Does he/she really think that Pete is going to miss him/her ? Wow…some people !
Wow French Canadian, that’s a gutsy post. You totally have to be messing around so I’m not going to spend a lot of energy going over how ridiculous it is!
Even if Wang had a no-no going, Coco would still bunt that ball on the last out, that’s just how Yankees v.s Red Sox works =P
Brian, I agree. I think that we all need to just get along.
Look, you can take Wang over Hamels. That’s cool. I’ll take Hamels.
You have a point about Sheets and Lincecum. But still, I’d take most of those pitchers on that list over Wang.
Did anyone catch the Bull Durham moment in the top of the 6th with A-Rod up when Buchholz shook off the fastball three times after the YES crew had been talking about Varitek being the real person in charge of the pitch calling, and, when Buchholz finally got Varitek to call the deuce, A-Rod line it into left? The very next shot was of Varitek with his helmet off, grinning down the line at AROD…
I can’t help but wonder if, before the pitch, Varitek looked up at A-Rod and said, “Alex, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well.”
Mark, I couldn’t have put it better. That is OK though, we are doing just fine this year and have a shot at sweeping them out this weekend. Nice job, Yankees !
French,
So, wouldn’t you rather have Wang who is definitely on the rise assuming he can keep mixing in these sliders and whatnot instead of Oswalt? =P I feel like I committed highway robbery on that trade.
god the son of the lord just hit a bases loaded game tying double
Where did Wang finish up in the Cy Young ballots the past 2 years ?????
I saw that Varitek moment…it was the “I told you so” look. Clay, young & lots to learn.
Too funny Chris, my wife and I thought the exact same thing!
Does Joe look a little skinny to everyone? His face looks a little sunken in.
Chris, I missed that. Too funny !
jennifer, he does. Maybe between the flu and the lack of offense he’s had some sleepless nights. You can drop a few pounds that way.
Wow, this win is an absolute slice of heaven. I am so proud of the Wanger!!! What an unbelievable outing. TOTAL DOMINATION of a team that has given him so much trouble in the past. And I LOVE all the inside pitching!! Wang continues to develop as a pitcher more and more every year and he’s only going to get better. Life is good, fantastic game!!
and yes, the bunt was a punk move by Breakfast Cereal, but it only serves to illuminate CMW’s ownage all the more.
WOW French Canadian would rather have
Ben “I’ve never won more than 12 games in a season” Sheets
You are clueless and a failure at analysis and losing your Expos is deserved with fans like you.
BBB, well said. I was so proud of Wang too.
Yeah that flu must have knocked him a loop. He was never heavy to begin with, so even if he lost 5 pounds thats a lot!
“So, wouldn’t you rather have Wang who is definitely on the rise assuming he can keep mixing in these sliders and whatnot instead of Oswalt? =P I feel like I committed highway robbery on that trade.”
That’s a tough question. Oswalt managed to keep a spectacular ERA last year even though his K rate and WHIP were a lot worse than normal, which are possible signs of decline. And I don’t really like reading too much into only 3 starts this early in a season. But with the Yankee fofense behind Wang, he will certainly win a lot more games than Oswalt. If Wang’s K rate is even just a little better than it has been in recent years, than you probably pulled off a nice heist right there, especially because you got Chipper. Chipper is totally overlooked but he’s still freakin awesome.
“I am not saying who has BEEN the best. Webb has the better track record. But right now if you had to pick one of them for 2008 and the next few seasons, who’s you take? Peavy or Webb? I think Peavy is much better, and I’m very confident in picking him over Webb in that regard.”
It’s pretty clear what you mean by best now. It’s largely just potential and “ceiling.”
The issue was who is a better pitcher NOW. You said that there were 20 pitcher’s better now.
Then all of a sudden when asked to name those pitchers to 20 who you would “rather have.” So you changed an issue of performance and fact to an issue of personal opinion.
They you changed it to a question of future projection.
If a pitcher is projected to be better in 5 years that doesn’t make him better now. That’s a strange way to look at discount rates.
The 2008 season has just started. The issue in question is how this season will unfold and how players will perform this year.
That was the original issue which you raised and others were responding to.
I’ll take Webb over Peavy; Webb’s worst ERA+ ever in the majors was 126. He just hasn’t had any rough years. Not counting his first year, Peavy has had a 99 ERA+ (2006) and a 96 ERA+ (2003) season. I’ll take the more ‘consistent’ one.
Trisha,
No it wouldn’t have, he’s the 28th guy, you don’t face him.
Eva Longoria is joining the Rays tomorrow. It looks like the spring training champs have found some extra money under the couch.
Wang isn’t a sexy Cy Young vote because he plays for a team with a big offense and doesn’t strike out a ton of people, but his consistency, durability, and presence on the mound (not to mention win total) certainly warrant much more consideration than he’s gotten the past couple years.
Let’s not forget that the people who vote for the Cy Young award also are the ones who gave Justin Morneau the MVP over Jeter or Joe Mauer!
I have some decisions here. I really want to watch Baseball Tonight and it starts at 12:00. Joba’s story is on at 11 and goes to 12:30. I’m supposed to be going out and so would have to tape one or the other. (no tivo)
Joba’s story is being repeated tomorrow at 1:00.
Think I should tape BB Tonight and watch Joba tomorrow? As much as I hate not to have a tape of the show tonight, BB Tonight is only on at one time tonight.
Wang, the hero!
Poor Wanger, he can’t speak to the media!
the Original, okay gotcha.
But as someone who doesn’t buy predetermined destiny, I can’t know that he would have ended up with a no hitter anyway.
So Wang is 3-0 with pretty poor run support, pitches a gem against defending World Champs RS who has always given him trouble, fans Big Papi 3x, Manny 2x, at hostile Fenway, saves bullpen, pitches complete game…first CG for yanks since, wait, his own last CG and he still gets no respect from the pundits…what gives? Does Wang need to be Batman, Superman and Peter Parker? Sheesh.
“I’ll take Webb over Peavy; Webb’s worst ERA+ ever in the majors was 126. ”
Webb may be the most under rated superstar in baseball. What he’s done over his career – both in terms of peak performance and innings pitched is phenomenal.
The idea that Peavy is better than him or that you could assume will even be better in 2008 is just off base.
“The 2008 season has just started. The issue in question is how this season will unfold and how players will perform this year.”
If you are talking striclty about who I’d rather have in 2008, then I will most definitely take Peavy over Webb, and it’s not even close in my mind. For starters, Peavy won the triple crown last year, and he and Webb pitched in the same division.
down 6 – 1 the Charleston Riverdogs come back and drop a 6 spot combined in the 7th & 8th Montero w/ the big hit & Snyder the game’s MVP
btw LHP Wilkins De La Rosa 2.2 IP,4 K’s
Posada should be the starting catcher no matter what, but it does seem to me that Molina calls and catches a much better game than Posada. The way he frames the ball, the pitchers just look better with him catching, I’ve noticed.
“Here are 20 guys I’d rather have in my rotation than Wang, not necessarily in this order
Sheets”
If they’re not in any particular order, couldnt you have put Sheets at the top of the list so I didn’t have to bother reading the rest? Cmon, really…Sheets? Who’s gonna be your #2 guy, Harden?
And for the record I would take Webb over Peavy too. Webb has been more consistent and it seems as if Peavy has often struggled in the big game.
But who cares about Webb and Peavy, or Sheets for that matter, lol – visions of dominant sinkers and complete game 2-hitters are dancing through my head!
WANG 4 PREZ!!
“The idea that Peavy is better than him or that you could assume will even be better in 2008 is just off base.”
I can understand why you might like Webb better. However, it is not “off base” to expect Peavy to be better, it’s just a difference of opinion. Look at Peavy did last season. 2006 was the fluky year for Peavy. He is an amzing pitcher, and I think that he will be better than Webb in 2008, just like he was in 2007.
Wasn’t Wang in the top 5 in the voting each of the past 2 years….
Wang is An Hero (not a typo)
I don’t understand why people keep talking about Wang’s inconsistency here when he pitched obviously a gem tonight. For God’s sake, give Wang some credit, simply for today, by beating Red Sox! Be fair, it’s almost a complete game!
First off Wang has been the best pitcher this year so far…
3 wins with minimal run support and a sub 1.23 era.
With that said there are only 7 players i would have over Wang, and 3 are in the NL.
Santana – ok
Peavy – ok but does it in nl west
Webb – ok but does it in nl west
Beckett – ok
Sabathia – really sucking this year
Hamels – pretty even with wang
Bedard – injury prone, but ok
Harang – …
Smoltz – how old is he now
Verlander – ok
Kazmir – always injured
Haren – always injured
Zambrano – ok
Lackey – ok
Oswalt – on the decline
Halladay – on the decline
F. Hernandez – inconsistent and injury prone
Cain – hasn’t proven anything yet
Lincecum – same as cain
Sheets – sucks, can’t stay healthy
Trisha,
Me neither, but a sharper club would have made those plays, then who knows what would have happened.
In any case, it was a GREAT game for Wang!
Wang came in a distant 2nd in the Cy Young vote in 2006 and didn’t even get on the board last year – insanity!
What about Harden?
Pat,
“Peavy won the triple crown last year, and he and Webb pitched in the same division.”
Regression to the mean.
And the “pitching triple crown” has to be taken with a big grain of salt with a pitcher who throw in Petco.
Peavy’s ERA+ last year was 159. That’s very good but it’s hardly phenomenal. Santana has had ERA+ way higher than that and never won the pitching triple crown.
Baseball Prospectus’s Pecota models put Peavey’s collapse rate at a 29% probability. They put Webb’s collapse rate at 21%.
That’s a major difference and that’s largely due to the increased variation in performance/ lack of consistency Peavey has shown over his career.
Ok fine take Wang over Sheets. Then there are still 18 or 19 pitchers I’d rather have than Wang.
By the way, this whole list idea started because some dude said that Wang was the best pitcher in baseball right now, which I knew was absurd. Obviously that’s not true, so I arbitrarily picked the number 20 as the number of pitchers better than Wang. Obviously a lot of people disagree with me, that’s fine. But the point was, I was just trying to show the original dude that he was way off base when he said Wang is the best pitcher in baseball. Obviously Santana is. I also included Peavy in that discussion, and so the pro-webb crowd is up my butt. I think Webb is awesome and is probably #3, but clearly there is room for debate. And I threw out about 20 other names just to show that Wang certainly isn’t even in the top 10. Even if you don’t like all the pitchers on my list, or think Webb is better than Peavy, I think you have to admit that Wang definitely does not sit in the top 10. And that was the only reason I made that list, to show that original dude that there are several pitchers in baseball who are better than Wang.
Pat,
Surprisingly, even though Wang had 19 wins last year and a very respectable 3.70 era, I don’t think he got one first place vote for cy young. I could be wrong but I do beleive that was the case.
I’m the original dude and I said he was the best pitcher in baseball RIGHT NOW!
Matt Cain over Wang? Dude, that’s just laughable.
>>Nick, “Hey blog visitors from Taiwan, just in case you missed it when Pete posted it back in November, I have a little photoset of Yankees/Wang-related pictures I took during a trip to Taiwan during the first round of the playoffs last October. Oh the tragedy of it all. Enjoy.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9.....451651434/
==========================================
Thanks for your contributions. These photos are great though you remind us of those hard days again when we were too nervous to see our country hero Wang suffering from the nightmare playoffs last season.
The BP Annual also projects Webb to have a 1.24 WHIP with a 3.36 PERA, whereas they project Peavy to have a 3.40 PERA with a 1.13 WHIP.
They also have Peavy at a VORP of 52.3, and Webb with a VORP of 52.8
So, it is very close. But I’ll still take Peavy.
The collapse rate is that higher for Peavy because of how insanely dominant he was last year. It will be difficult to repeat that.
They have Utley’s collapse rate at 33% because one again, the guy was extremely awesome last year to a degree where it will be difficult to repeat it.
Nice win tonight, Yank fans. If you haven’t already been turned off and become completely nauseated by Trish, just give it a little more time. I see the relative standoffishness being shown her as a compliment to the overall intelligence on this blog. I’m an RSN member, but hats off to CMW. Great pitching. Sox still look a bit thunderstruck from the responsibility of trying to maintain status quo. Look for Beckett to bounce back tomorrow eve.
“Matt Cain over Wang? Dude, that’s just laughable.”
It’s a close call in my mind, but it’s certainly not laughable. Matt Cain’s lack of wins are not an indicator of how good he is. It is an indicator of how pathetic the Giants offense is.
French Canadian, you’re really struggling. Just admit it – we’re right and you’re Wang!!!
Hey Johnny from Taipei, good to see you back on here. Did you ever post any of my pictures to your blog? Please email me if you did, I’d be curious to see. Hope all is well and congratulations on the election in Taiwan (or condolences if you wanted Frank Hsieh!).
All I was saying is that he’s finished in the top 5 in the Cy Young voting the past 5 years…That has to say something to rebute the Frenchman’s on going retoric….I’m watching Peavy vs. Brad Penny, Dodgers just scored, and they have 3 hits in the 1st inning …..This whole 20 pitchers better than Wang is crazy….Move on….
Danny Baseball, so you are the original guy?
So do you really think Wang is the best pitcher in baseball? Better than Santana or Peavy or Webb? Really?
Then you are clearly insane.
CAVEMAN TROLL PHONY!!!!!
Nobody wants you here troll. Nice job by the SUX!!
No such thing as Tokyo jet lag~!
Now slither back to a Sux venue. Sux its like you are definitely not welcome here.
Go ahead, cave. Slither back to your den.
Hey jennifer, did you see CM’s press conference????? This is the first time I’ve seen him attempt a press conference in English.
WOO HOO!!!!!
OMG, Wang just spoke in the post game interview. First time ever! He understood Kim Jones’ question and said this was his best game in a long time.
Ok, time to watch Joba’s YESterday.
http://www.overthemonster.com/.....d#comments
look at redsox fans cant even get facts right
great game guys…i have a question…wasn’t tonight rebecca’s first visit to fenway?
if so, what a game for her!
Scorpio – I decided to watch it also.
3-0 with a 1.23 ERA, yes the best pitcher in baseball RIGHT NOW. A better pitcher than Santana, Peavy, or Webb overall – no, of course not. But certainly in the tier directly below them and making a case to join or surpass one or all of them with another couple big seasons. C’mon now!
“The collapse rate is that higher for Peavy because of how insanely dominant he was last year. It will be difficult to repeat that.”
No. Not true. The BP models are built off of several seasons of performance not simply one.
You can’t just pick and choose. You can’t just say hey Peavy was better in 2007 so I fully expect him to be better in 2008 without also admitting that Peavey’s expected performance will likely not match his 2007 numbers due to variation in his estimated performance.
That’s a complete paradox. You’re trying to make two arguments at once. You can’t cite Peavy’s 2007 performance when it suits your argument without also accepting that one season’s performance carries with it a high variance in the estimates for expected performance.
The standard error’s for Peavey’s expected performance are going to be wider than for Webb’s because Peavy has been a much more inconsistent pitcher.
Also you’ve said that Peavy was “much, much” better than Webb in 2007.
Again – that’s not even true. Peavy’s ERA+ was 159. Webb’s 156. That is not much better.
And with any pitcher who throws in Petco you have to look at adjusted statistics.
And again – it was your case that Peavy was “much, much” better than Webb. If yo want to say hey it’s close but I think Peavey is better I’d be fine with that. But for you to say that he’s “much, much” better is not true by any metric.
And you were the one who wanted to be very precise about people making claims – that was your issue about claims regarding how good Wang is.
Sure it’s not true that Wang is the best pitcher in baseball and if you want to dispute that’s fine.
But when you make an equally off base argument (20 pitchers better now) and then throw out names like Ben Sheets that’s nearly as spurious an argument as saying Wang is the best.
All I know is the Yanks won and Wang pitched one heck of a game.Nothin else really matters!
“Matt Cain’s lack of wins are not an indicator of how good he is. It is an indicator of how pathetic the Giants offense is.”
Ok. But he’s going to take his lumps this year, just like Hughes an Buchholz and Joba and any other young pitcher. So…I don’t see how he belongs on that list.
Didn’t see the interview yet. Had to answer phone put tv on pause.
Poor Bobby
he is beating himself up enough already and the media has to keep beating him up about it.
cy wang
whozat – Cain has thrown over 450 IP at the MLB level. He is not nearly in the same phase of his career that Hughes and Buccholz are at right now.
CB – you have good points about the peavy vs webb debate. I would just like to add that even though they had a similar ERA+ in 2007, Peavy was much more consistent from start to start. Check the gamelogs. That’s probably why I thought Peavy was “much much” better even though it turns out they were very close.
And once again I would like to remind you that I arbitrarily threw out the number 20 just to emhpasize to the original dude that Wang was not even close to number one. So I had to make some reaches like Sheets or Lincecum to get that number up to 20. But the main point still was, Wang is not even in the discussion of best pitcher in baseball. And I am very confident in choosing most of those guys in that list over him. Even if you disagree about Cain or a few others, Wang is certainly not in the top 10.
“If you are talking striclty about who I’d rather have in 2008, then I will most definitely take Peavy over Webb, and it’s not even close in my mind. For starters, Peavy won the triple crown last year, and he and Webb pitched in the same division.”
“The BP Annual also projects Webb to have a 1.24 WHIP with a 3.36 PERA, whereas they project Peavy to have a 3.40 PERA with a 1.13 WHIP.
They also have Peavy at a VORP of 52.3, and Webb with a VORP of 52.8
So, it is very close. But I’ll still take Peavy.
The collapse rate is that higher for Peavy because of how insanely dominant he was last year. It will be difficult to repeat that.
They have Utley’s collapse rate at 33% because one again, the guy was extremely awesome last year to a degree where it will be difficult to repeat it.”
French Canadian – in Fantasy Baseball, sure, you have an argument to take Peavy. If I’m building a team from scratch, I take Webb – hands down.
Take a look at the parks they play in! Petco = pitchers park. Bank One Ballpark = hitters ballpark. Webb’s accomplishments are all the better.
If Wang pitches all season like he has over the first three starts this season, he’ll hands down be the Cy Young and MVP
Not counting on it, but damn, he’s solid right now.
Also, heading in to today, here are the career IP and ERA+ for Wang and Cain, not including the postseason:
Wang – 546.7, 120 ERA+
Cain 447 IP, 119 ERA+
the IP are there to show you that Cain and Wang have pitched a similar number of innings in their career, and Cain is much closer to wang than he is to guys like Hughes or Buccholz. And the ERA+ shows you that their effectiveness has been pretty close as well. So, it is certainly not laughable to pick Cain over Wang.
Original Dude to French Canadian – let’s see how good you feel about your silliness in September when Wang finishes the year 21-7 with a 3.45 ERA pitching in the American League East!!!
Just got in.
What happened? Did we win?
Wheeeew !!!! ….. the Chien-Ming Wang bandwagon jumpers are out in force after a game he’s been capable of pitching for the past few years and several where he had no run support in losing some heartbreakers. It must have been pure luck to have back-to-back 19 win seasons.
One needs only to look at the March archives to see how many people trashed Wang and others for having the audacity to experiment with pitches in meaningless exhibition games to prepare for the season.
everyone is saying JOba can hit, I got to admit that I didn’t know
:shrug: I’ve always like Wang.
“And once again I would like to remind you that I arbitrarily threw out the number 20″
No. I’m not buying that at all. Because that’s not how you phrased it at all. Go look at your post.
You were very confident in your assessment and now it sounds like you’re back tracking when your points aren’t gelling.
And I’ll say this – while Wang may not be the best pitcher in baseball there’s also a long line of argument that says that he’s grossly “overrated.” That’s he’s essentially a pitcher who gets by on luck because he doesn’t strike out enough hitters and miss enough bats.
That’s pretty much where it sounded like you were coming from when you pick out a number like 20. That’s just a ridiculous number.
But you can’t just change that number mid-argument to 10 because what you originally said wasn’t true.
That’s just very weak. You can’t change the parameters of an discussion – parameters you picked – mid discussion.
You can’t just say well hey I picked out that number “arbitrarily” when you’re points don’t hold.
It’s fine to come to this blog. But if you’re going to make outlandish statements that don’t hold water (Peavy was “much, much better than Webb, etc.) expect to be called on it.
Are you French Canadian? If so perhaps we can agree on Phillip Aumont? He’s got a terrific arm. I like him a lot. If he stays healthy he’s going to be a good one.
Ironically, it looks like he’s going to be a pitcher pretty close to what Wang is now.
“Just got in.
What happened? Did we win?”
Mel, Wang had a no hitter going till the 6th inning I think, anyway 4 – 1 CG for Wang, Giambi had a HR, Gonzo hit , moved guys over, Molina continues his hot hitting and smallball baserunning , Melky and Bobby w/ sac flies for RBIs. WE OWNED THE NIGHT AT FENWAY
“Wang finishes the year 21-7 with a 3.45 ERA ”
The 21-7 record is very plausible because:
1) Wang is a very good pitcher
2) He pitches deep into games so he usually gets the decision either way
3) The Yankee offense is arguably the best in baseball, so he will even get some wins in games where he stinks
4) He has Joba and Mo to finish the game off, assuming Wang can pitch 7 innings most of the time
However, I will gladly hold you to that ERA and laugh at you when it is more likely in the 3.75 to 4.00 range at the end of the year.
“What happened? Did we win?”
Mel,
4-1 win.
Wang pitched what may have been the best game of his entire career.
It was a complete masterpiece. He gave up only two hits – one was a home run Abreu just flailed on and should have caught.
The other was a bunt single by Crisp in the ninth.
He hardly faced over 27 hitters for the entire game.
They didn’t need to use Joba or Mo. Francona had to bring in Okajima for a few hitters.
Giambi hit an HR. Melky palyed a fantastic game – great situational hitting. Gonzelez very good.
By far the best game they’ve played all season.
Not really crazy about this new Michael Kay show and format.
“Wang – 546.7, 120 ERA+
Cain 447 IP, 119 ERA+”
Jake Peavey – carreer ERA+120
Brandon Webb – career ERA+ 144.
That’s not even remotely close.
So the fact that his ERA’s the past 2 years were 3.63 and 3.70 and he appears to be maturing and improving as a pitcher lead you to that conclusion. You’re really on the ball tonight bro!
In 2 1/2 seasons, Wang is 51-18 with an ERA OF 3.51 or so….Enough said…..He’s not the desired 10 strikeout pitcher that we all crave for, but hell at this stage of his career there’s not many who have posted better numbers…
Brandon,
Thanks. I still say Wang is rubbish.
Just kidding. Still looking for a magnifying glass to read his ERA in the box score. (sorry, I’m obsessed with ERA).
CB,
Thanks. I’m glad for CMW. He had a rough outing the last time he pitched at Fenway.
Who’s on deck tomorrow?
I don’t think 20 is a foolish number. It is debatable though near the end of the list. 10 is certainly not debatable.
I can pick 20 pitchers in baseball I’d rather have over Wang. Replace Sheets with Matsuzaka. Replace Lincecum with Burnett.
I’ll take those 20 guys over Wang. Yes, even Cain.
Santana
Peavy
Webb
Beckett
Sabathia
Hamels
Bedard
Harang
Smoltz
Verlander
Kazmir
Haren
Zambrano
Lackey
Oswalt
Halladay
F. Hernandez
Cain
Matsuzaka
Burnett
Obviously you disagree with me. So tell me, where would you rank Wang, hmmm? I think 20 is a very fair number.
I don’t think Wang is lucky or overrated. He is the ace of the Yankee staff. He is very very good. I am very confident with him on the mound. But I would prefer these guys over him.
Will Mussina be able to string together two wins in a row? Last season, what little success he had was against young, free-swinging teams. I.e., teams like the Rays. Against more disciplined hitting teams, results were grim.
How will he fare against the Sox? I am not optimistic.
Wang is amazing – but he’s nowhere near one of the top pitchers in baseball.
That being said I think he’s an Ace*. The asterisk being that he hasn’t been dominant for extended periods of time. He’s been successful – very successful – but his dominance rarely stretches for long periods of time.
I think the Yankees would feel very comfortable with him as a #2 starter an a more conventional Ace in front of him.
Wang, however, is the type of guy that you want in your rotation. He eats innings like you wouldn’t believe. I feel that with Girardi, he will pitch more complete games than he did under Torre. He’s always among the league leaders in fewest pitches per inning. In the long season of baseball, having a guy that pitches 7-8 innings almost every time out – or at least has that capability due to low pitch counts – is a blessing that many teams won’t have. Wang ultimately makes the bullpen better by giving them nights off.
So – what does this all mean? Is Wang a true ace? Depends on your definition. He may not be in a lot of the aspects that people define them – but he is probably as valuable, if not more to the Yankees than any other pitcher out there….
“He’s not the desired 10 strikeout pitcher that we all crave for, but hell at this stage of his career there’s not many who have posted better numbers…”
This is really what it gets down to with people who don’t like Wang.
These are usually people who like sabermetrics and can’t get over the idea that a pitcher can be very good without striking out a lot of hitters because that’s not how most other good pitchers have attacked hitters.
They also think Wang’s not that good because a guy who doesn’t strike out a lot of hitters doesn’t “project” to win games in the future.
Somehow they confuse future projections with current performance and somehow think that what MIGHT happen in the future is more important than how he has performed over the past 3 seasons.
I stand corrected ..Wang 48-18 with an ERA of 3.69…..Life time numbers
french canadian-
the pitchers you are talking about don’t have to pitch in big games in fenway park. what they do in arizona and san diego doesn’t necessarily translate to what they’d do in pinstripes in big games.
i’m puzzled by your obsession with bashing wang on a night that should be a celebration of wang’s effort.
You take your Sabathia, we’ll take our Wang.
Deal?
French Canadian,
Are you a yankee fan? If so then this is just bizarre.
I assumed you were another one of those sox fans.
If you are a yankee fan then you’re just one of those people who is not happy unless the yanees have a team of 8 ARods on the field and 5 santana’s on the staff and 7 Rivera’s in the pen.
“Jake Peavey – carreer ERA+120
Brandon Webb – career ERA+ 144.
That’s not even remotely close.”
Sure, Peavy had a 99 ERA+ in 2006 so of course his era+ is lower than Webb’s over the last 3 years. We do not disagree about who has been more consistent in the past. I expect Peavy to be better than Webb in 2008, and for the next several years actually. And BP projects them to perform similarly this season. So what’s your point? I thought we were finished with that one.
Wang is an ABSOLUTE and DEFINITIVE ace! Not a Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, or Greg Maddux type of ace (very few are), but the kind you can give the ball to every 5th day and feel very confident that you’re going to win that game. Not many pitchers in baseball you can say that about (including a very large portion of French Canadian’s 20).
Last pitcher to no hit the Sox at Fenway was Jim Bunning in 1958.
Wang didn’t get the no-no thanks to bobby but 50 years is a long time nonetheless.
You’d rather Matsuzaka over Wang? All further points you make are now deemed invalid.
Matsuzaka is above Wang?
That’s absolutely laughable. Just see how many BB he has.
re: Joba’s YESterday episode
wow, joba was a chubby kid, hope he won’t have weight issues later in his career. not liking this YESterdays format, very disjointed…kay should just keep all the guests on stage.
The greatest Yankee Pitcher ever…Whitey Ford’s first 3 seasons…..44-15, 263 K’s in 522 innings….era 2.63 ( no DH of course )….Now he was considered the best money pitcher ever….Give the Wang-Man due credit, some time in 2010 he’ll go over 100 wins…..His demands are going to be sizeable if he hits the FA market…..
“I assumed you were another one of those sox fans.
If you are a yankee fan then you’re just one of those people who is not happy unless the yanees have a team of 8 ARods on the field and 5 santana’s on the staff and 7 Rivera’s in the pen.”
Why do you guys think I am bashing Wang? I think he is awesome. However, I think about 20 pitchers in baseball are more awesome than him. How is that insulting? I’m not spouting off stuff like “oh he doesn’t strike enough people out..blah blah blah…he’s lucky…blah blah blah…”
Once again, answer my question. Go through that list yourself. Actually, make your own and let’s see where you rank Wang. I would be surprised if you have him closer to 10 than 20. Would that mean you aren’t a Yankee fan? I don’t get it.
I am a Yankee fan, in case you didn’t know. I have a mancrush on Derek Jeter. I think Cano and Melky are fun to watch. I love Phil and Joba and Wang and Kennedy and Edwar and Ohlendorf etc. I hate Farnsworth. I am indifferent to Hawkins. I think ARod is underappreciated by Yankee fans. I think Abreu should be the leadoff hitter instead of Damon. So um yeah, I am a Yankee fan and do have a major interest in the team and its ongoings.
And you are completely wrong about me being unhappy. I am very happy the Yankees didn’t trade Hughes/Melky/Kennedy for Santana. Santana is awesome, but that trade idea didn’t make sense. I think the Yankee bullpen has potential to surprise lots of people if Bruney and Ohlendorf get sufficient chances over farsnworth. I want Joba in the rotation later in the year. I chew on my fingernails whenever Moose is on the mound.
Tell me, how exactly do you equate my idea that Wang is the 20th best pitcher in baseball (quick, check the BP Annual, I am being generous in that regard) with the idea that I am only happy if we have 8 arod’s and a bullpen of rivera’s.? I don’t get it. I am no0t saying I don’t want Wang on the team. But what I am saying is, I think there are about 20 starters who are better than Wang. And I think that is a fair statement.
“So what’s your point? I thought we were finished with that one.”
Matt Cain’s 2007 ERA+ – 110
Wang’s 2007 ERA+ – 121
My point is this – you keep veering between using career statistics and single season statistics based on what happens to fit your argument better at the moment.
While at the same time you at different moments are saying that careers statistics don’t mater when discussing who’ll be better for the 2008 season and moving forward into the future.
So Peavy will be better than Webb in 2008 and forward because his 2007 was better according to you.
The difference between Peavy and Webb’s ERA+ – 3 points.
But by the same reasoning wouldn’t Wang have to be better than in 2008 because he was better than Cain. In fact Wang’s ERA+ is 10 points better – much higher than the difference between Peavy and Webb.
But conveniently when you were discussin Cain vs. Wang you cited the career statistics because they were more to your liking. When it was Peavy vs. Webb it was primarily the single season statistics that matter.
Again, that is weak.
If you want to throw out Peavy’s ERA+ 99 then throw out Wang’s ERA+ of 105.
You can always pick and chose statistics to suit an argument – just throw out the numbers and change the metrics that refute what you say.
Very weak.
CB-
Another dragon slayed!!!
Frenchy-
Dice K over Wang? You are kidding right?
Well – let’s examine this list like this: would the Yankees/other team do a one for one trade if they had secret knowledge that the world was going to end on Nov 5th thus making this season the last season of baseball ever:
Santana Yanks: in a heartbeat Mets: Not in your life
Peavy Yanke: in a heartbeat SD: Never
Webb Yanks: Pause – then pull the trigger Ari: Nope
Beckett Yanks: rivalry aside – YUP Bos: Nope
Sabathia Yanks: Internal debate but probably Cle: No
Hamels Yanks: Definite Debate – but probably not Phils: Debateable – but they probably wouldn’t make the trade either (a push)
Bedard Yanks: YUP SEA: NOPE
Harang Yanks: NO WAY CIN: YUP – in a heartbeat
Smoltz Yanks: For one year – yeah ATL: No
Verlander Yanks: YUP Det: NOPE
Kazmir Yanks: Nope TB: Yup
Haren Yanks: Internal Debate – probably Ari: Probably not
Zambrano Yanks: No way Cubs: Yes
Lackey Yanks: Nope LAA: Probably
Oswalt Yanks: Nope Hou: Yup
Halladay Yanks: Yup Tor: Yup (push)
F. Hernandez Yanks: Probably Sea: Nope
Cain: Yanks: Nope SF: Yup
Matsuzaka Yanks: Nope Bos: Nope (push)
Burnett Yanks: Nope Tor: Probably
So – there are tiers to this: Santana, Peavy, Webb, Verlander, Sabathia, Bedard, Haren are really in the upper eschlon of pitchers. Notice how all but two are proven in the AL.
Then there are guys like Smoltz who, on a one year basis would be fine, but Wang’s youth wins out in the real world.
Then there is the middle tier where – well, neither team would pull the trigger or both teams would. You could slot guys in and out and put Wang as the worst or the best of this lot. It’s all personal opinion, belief/disbelief in sabermetrics, etc etc.
There are a few guys on your list that factors such as health and youth make them bad comparisons. Scott Kazmir has loads of potential – but other than trying to prove your point, would you really want to have him and his health issues versus Wang and his consistency? Does Kazmir have more tools to have a better career? Possibly – but right now he hasn’t established himself more than Wang has. A guy like Matt Cain – pitching in the NL West – doesn’t even belong in this conversation….
I’d place Wang somewhere between 12-17 depending on your opinions and value of certain things. 20? Eh – not quite but you weren’t actually counting the pitchers when you said that….
Forget a no-no by Wang, had Bobby jumped at the right time, we would possibly have seen a perfect game. Crisp never would have even had an attempt to bunt his way on in the ninth. Now that would have been incredible!
Either way, I’ll take a win and Wang pitched a gem. Very impressive busting Ramirez inside fooling him and Ortiz all night. He was also working his changeup. His fastball was at 95 the entire night too.
We got some offense from everybody except Cano. Don’t know what his problem is. Hopefully as the weather warms up so does he but until then he needs to be bumped back to 6th, 7th, or 8th. Great game regardless.
Ok so you don’t like Matsuzaka over wang. That’s cool. So do you put Wang at 19 then?
Seriously, you guys are just nitpicking the tail end of my list. Look at the bulk of the list and try to explain why Wang is better than most of the other guys on that list aside from Matsuzaka or Burnett or Cain. What about Sabathia? Or Lackey? Or Smoltz. Or Halladay. Or Santana. Or Peavy. Or Webb. Or Zambrano. Or Verlander. Or Oswalt. Come on, let’s hear it.
This is not insulting to Wang to say he is the 20th best. Maybe I’m off by a couple, but he is most certainly closer to 20 then you all seem to think he is.
“I am being generous in that regard) with the idea that I am only happy if we have 8 arod’s and a bullpen of rivera’s.? I don’t get it.”
Matsuzaka was almost exactly a league average pitcher last year – ERA+ of 108.
The notion that he is a better pitcher than Wang who over 3 years has an ERA+ of 120 is just a joke. That’s not even quasi-serious.
I didn’t even bother to bring up how silly that was because I assumed only a sox fan would make that argument.
You actually think that a guy with an ERA+ of 108 and had a WHIP of 1.3 while walking 3.5/9 is better than Wang?
That’s why I thought you were a sox fan.
CB, I already agreed that you were correct about Peavy and Webb being closer than I thought.
I was using the career numbers on Cain and Wang to show that one dude that it is not laughable to compare the two pitchers, that’s all. Do you think I unfairly used the stats, in that regard?
pat m -
i predict you’re going to be at odds with the sabermetric crowd that doesn’t believe in “money pitcher” or believe that wins matter. i’m with you for what it’s worth.
my only concern before the season with wang was if he was going to be able to mix other pitches into his arsenal without losing his sinker.he seems to be making the transition to a more versatile pitcher while maintaining the sink on the sinker. he could become very good to the point that this conversation tonight about twenty pitchers being better than him will be laughable.
the Yanks should make a call on Matt Kemp. It blows my mind that he is riding the pine so far this season in LA.
Ok CB so you think Wang is better than Dice-K. Fair enough. That would still put Wang as the 20th best pitcher since my list includes 20 guys ahead of him. So do you put Wang at 20 then? 19? 18? 17? Please tell me. You still haven’t answered that one. If I am so far off, then does this mean that you have him like 11 or something?
Wang appears to be at his best this season… better than last.
Let’s wait a month and see if he can continue to pitch this well. If he does, he’s top 10.
Can we ignore the French guy and move on???
Thanks to GS for actually slotting Wang into the list with a detailed explanation as well. This is a much better way to go about things than saying “Haha you idiot, Wang is much better than Dice-k, your list is invalid”
GS, when I originally created the list, the idea was strictly looking at 2008 and ignoring the future. So that’s why I would take Smoltz or Halladay or Oswalt over Wang even though those guys are older and no longer in their primes. As for a guy like Kazmir and hamels, I totally buy into their talent and think they will be huge this year, although I can certainly understand if you prefer wang over them because of injury risks and less developed rrack records.
See – I wouldn’t take an Oswalt over a Wang this year. This year’s Wang over the Oswalt of two years ago? That’s another story. He’s fading – and fading fast. When I said 12-17 – I took guys like Smoltz and added them into the “take over wang” list. Halladay – he’s one of my push guys. The Stats suggest he’s a better pitcher – but Wang is still developing and I would probably take Wang’s potential this year over Halladay’s known talent. These are personal preference – just like organizations will ultimately have their preference.
I think Hamels is a year away. Kazmir is Kazmir and, while he may put up great auxiliary numbers – I will take Wang with his GB% and developing arsenal over him.
I think you, ultimately, have a realistic assessment of Wang’s place in the Majors though. There are approximately 150 starting pitchers in MLB. Being in the Top 20 of those 150 starting pitchers is a compliment. It doesn’t matter if he’s 1 or 20. People are just getting worked up because he pitched lights out tonight and they love their Yankees. Can’t blame them for that….
“I’d place Wang somewhere between 12-17 depending on your opinions and value of certain things. 20? Eh – not quite but you weren’t actually counting the pitchers when you said that….”
Thank you for that last statement as well. I most certainly was not counting the pitchers when I said that. It was just a guess.
In fact, my original statement was “there are around 20 pitchers in baseball who are probably better than him”
I didn’t say exaclty 20. I said “around” 20 and “probably” better. 20 is a nice round number. Perhaps you guys would be happier if I said 17 and threw out Cain, Burnett, and Dice-K?
Good point again, GS. I am also a bit worried about Oswalt’s rapid decline in 2008.
As for Hamels, I guess I just foam at the mouth when I see that he pitched over 180 Ip last year with a 4.12 K:Bb ratio, which is crazy awesome for a young pitcher like him. The 3.39 ERA and 1.12 WHIP, considering his home ballpark, also impress the heck out of me. I think he can get close to that again this season. I’m not as sold as Kazmir as I am on Hamels. But that’s mostly because I think Hamels is insanely awesome.
Eat, drink and be merry.
For tomorrow, Mussina.
At this point I think this french dude will take Mark Prior over wang. LOL
Just back from the Sardine Can via the Green line “T” and a couple of drinks in the North End. What an absolute gem by CMW. I still hope to see Mo pitch (in person) someday, but I’ll take this game any time.
Plenty of Yankee fans in Sec. 16 Box 35 tonight, also. Nice to finally see a Yankee win — prior to tonight I’d seen them get pounded by the Brewers (ca. 1989), pounded by the Rockies in Denver, pounded by the Red Socks in NY in ’03, and beat at Fenway in April ’07.
The multiple calls of “they STILL suck” from people seeing my NYY hat on the way out were music to my ears.
For all the doubters, this game still wont convince them this guy who won more starts than anyone in MLB is our ace.
To Jennifer: What makes our Silent Ace?
As a Taiwanese, I respect Wang’s quietness and low profile. I would rather see Wang
keep developing his secondary pitch over
his secondary speech capability. How do you
like my point?
Molina is outstanding. Think where we’d be with John Flaherty or Wil Nieves right now.