So what if he’s won 38 games in two years… he hasn’t done it for 20 years in a row!

If he wins a world series… hate! He hasn’t won TWO!

If he pitches a no-hitter… hate! He doesn’t pitch one every month, like a “TRUE” ace would!

If he strikes out 10 in one game… hate! He didn’t strike out 27 like a dominant, 125mph throwing ace would!

No matter what Wang does, the haters apply some ridiculous criteria to him and him only, to ‘prove’ that Wang is a failure. And yet… they don’t apply that same criteria to their favorite players.

Era, wins, strikeouts, opposing ba, whatever. For any category that they say is the reason why Wang is not an ace, you’ll see that some of their supposed aces fail in that area too. Or, you’ll see other ordinary pitchers do well in that category, but magically they aren’t considered an ace. And for every pitcher that is a supposed ‘ace’, you’ll see that Wang is as good or better than them at some stat. Interesting how the rules keep changing in order to produce the same outcome, that Wang sucks.

There should be a law that says you must put up a very specific definition of ace BEFORE you look at your favorite pitcher’s stats to claim that they are an ace. Then these haters will embarrassingly discover that every single pitcher in the history of baseball fails their own test!

And by the way, every time a Yankee game is on tv, whether national or not, those announcers refer to Wang as “an Ace” or “the Yankees’ Ace”.

So these anonymous haters on the internet… they know more than these professional baseball-game callers?

When writers write about Wang’s games, they refer to Wang as “an Ace” or “the Yankees’ Ace”.

So these anonymous haters on the internet… they know more than these professional baseball-game writers?

“And yes, Wang is less of a pitcher THAN ONE with a nearly double K-rate, and better groundball rate. Webb is not in Peavy and Santana’s class, but there’s little doubt that he’s better than Wang at this point.

So there’s two pitchers. You know nothing about either one of them, except that they’ve each pitched one scoreless, hitless inning. One gave up 3 fly balls to the warning track, the other, say, had a groundout, a strikeout, and a weak fly ball.

You need to pick the one you’d rather have. To you it’s an absolute toss-up becuase outs are outs?

The point is that when Wang’s giving up any fly balls (let alone fly balls to the warning track) he’s not right. The comment about Eiland fixing him is testament to that.

And funny you mention the fly balls not being HR, because Manny’s would definitely be a HR in Yankee Stadium, and Youklis’s may have been also.

And yes, Wang is less of a pitcher with a nearly double K-rate, and better groundball rate. Webb is not in Peavy and Santana’s class, but there’s little doubt that he’s better than Wang at this point.

I think you would agree that, if Wang starts giving up lots of home runs because he can’t keep the ball on the ground anymore, he would be less of a pitcher than Webb, regardless of the speed of Webb’s fastball.

One thing you can count on is that Yankee fans love CM Wang no matter what you want to call him! Thank you for loaning us such a wonderful man!

“On “outs are outs” (SJ44) – no way. Overall, Wang was dominant and ace-like last night. But in the inning with the HR, no way. That could have easily been 3 or 4 HR. ”

Actually, they could easily been zero HR. Two of them would not have been HRs in ANY ballpark. So what’s the point? That because once in a while Wang gives up a long out, he’s less of a pitcher than say, Brandon (I’ve got a fastball that sits at 89″) Webb? Pleaaase!

Wow!! So many “he is” and “he isnt” comment here. I would like to say that Wang is not and will not be among the great pitchers in your long American baseball history. But he will no doubt be the greatest in Taiwan. Thanks to Wang we have had so many joyful/sorrow around this young man, distracting us from some sick politicians. In my opinion, yesterday he is a good pitcher to me for he didnt give any BB. Sure the SO is little but that’s why we need other 8 players, right? An out is an out, no matter what kind of out it appeared. If jon doesn’t take Wang’s performance as a good pitcher, show me the pitcher who does not need any other player except the cathcer in the field. I guess maybe this is the true ACE in Jon’s opinion, sneding this ACE in field and the other 7 players can sit and enjoying their picnic, or BBQ during the game??

David – I can’t get all into it but wins and losses mean absolutely nothing whatsoever.

On Peavy in the playoffs – small sample size (just like Wang in the playoffs).

On Santana last year – not an “ace-like” year. The previous years make him an ace. I was shocked that he pitched so poorly as to have a 3.33 ERA last year – if that’s not an ace, I don’t know what is.

On dominance (strikeout-wise). I’ll admit that it has a little bit to do with it. But if Wang continually pitches like last night, no reason he can’t be an ace.

On “outs are outs” (SJ44) – no way. Overall, Wang was dominant and ace-like last night. But in the inning with the HR, no way. That could have easily been 3 or 4 HR. If a guy is continually giving up hard-hit line drives and flies, but they’re right at people and fielders are making great plays, and he pitches a no-hitter, is he dominant? No.

The reason why strikeouts matter is because pitchers generally have little control whether a ball hit into play (i.e. not a HR) is going to be a hit or not. Read up on “voros mccracken”, BABIP, and DIPS if you’re interestested. More strikeouts simply means less chances for hits (and HR). I will admit that with extreme groundball pitchers it is not quite as important because even if the ball is hit into play it’s unlikely to be a HR.

Harang – forgot him. He’d be in the list with Zambrano, Wang, etc.

To the guy who misunderstood my definition and said there will never be any aces because guys can’t dominate every start: I didn’t say that. I said they are guys that subjectively you have such confidence in that when they have a poor or merely average start, you are shocked. Admit it – Peavy had something like 9 hits and 3 runs through 3 innings last night – if you were hearing updates of that game, you’d be surprised. If that were Wang pitching, you’d say “well, guess he doesn’t have his best stuff tonight.” THAT is the difference.

Again, totally subjective. I don’t know exactly what he’ll have to do to become an ace. I’ll know it when I feel it. My best guess would be something like no starts with 4 runs allowed over his next 12, at most 2 or 3 starts with 3 runs allowed.

In 2007 against AL teams (including 2 against the might O’s):

19 IP, 8ER, ERA=3,80″

He went 12 IP and 5 ER against Baltimore (3.75 ERA) and 7 IP, 3 ER against Yankees (3.86 ERA)

Peavy went 18 IP, 6 ER for an ERA of 3 in interleague
Individual game wise, he went 6 IP and 3 ER against Baltimore (4.5 ERA), 5 IP and 3 ER against Boston (5.4 ERA), and 7 IP and 0 ER against Tampa Bay

If we’re gonna use the mighty O’s as a measuring stick, they earned at a better rate against Peavy