Game 12: Yankees at Red Sox
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 12, 2008 
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YANKEES
Johnny Damon LF
Melky Cabrera CF
Bobby Abreu RF
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Jason Giambi 1B
Jorge Posada DH
Robinson Cano 2B
Jose Molina C
Alberto Gonzalez SS
Mike Mussina RHP
RED SOX
Jacoby Ellsbury CF
Dustin Pedroia 2B
David Ortiz DH
Manny Ramirez LF
Kevin Youkilis 3B
J.D. Drew RF
Jason Varitek C
Sean Casey 1B
Julio Lugo SS
Josh Beckett RHP
Notes: It’s a sunny, nearly cloudless day in Boston and actually 72 degrees. … Just talked to Phil Hughes, a former Red Sox fan who will be starting at Fenway Park for the first time tomorrow. Clay Buchholz told the Boston writers he used to be a Yankees fan because he played shortstop growing up and idolized Derek Jeter.
UPDATE, 3:56 p.m.: Here’s a Derek Jeter update for you: The Captain took BP, then he fielded groundballs for seven minutes (like a nerd, I counted: 31) and then he ran in left field, from the foul line to center field about five times back and forth. He snuck into the clubhouse before we had a chance to talk to him. But via PR maven Jason Zillo, Jeter said he had no setbacks.
UPDATE, 4;19 p.m.: Mrs. A-Rod is due to have their second child sometime next week, so Alex will be getting a couple of days off. He and Cano are the only Yankees to have played every game so far.
UPDATE, 4:37 p.m.: Had Gonzalez run through the bag there, he might have been safe. Bobby Valentine once made a great point about diving into first: If it gets you there faster, why don’t Olympic sprinters do it?
UPDATE, 4:48 p.m.: There’s some serious dark clouds headed over the park. They’re low, too. Could mean some rain. It went from a day game to a night game like that.
UPDATE, 4:52 p.m.: The weird Independence Day cloud is moving away. No rain or aliens yet. … Meanwhile David Ortiz is 0 for his last 15 and 3 for 41 this season. That’s .073 for those of you who didn’t attend UMass-Amherst.
UPDATE, 5:04 p.m.: Official scorer Mike Shalin is going to have some explaining to do if Josh Beckett doesn’t give up another hit. He ruled that Robbie Cano’s grounder to second base in the third inning that Dustin Pedroia fielded then dropped was a single. So far, that’s been it for the Yankees.
UPDATE, 5;13 p.m.: Shalin is off the hook, the great Jose Molina just singled up the middle. Molina has hit safely in all eight games he has started this season.
UPDATE, 5:27 p.m.: Gonzalez’s base-running got the Yankees the go-ahead run. He smartly tagged up when Melky flew to center, getting over to third when Ellsbury made a sliding catch. He then took an good secondary lead and got to the plate when Beckett threw a wild pitch that bounced a few feet away.
Smart move by the Yankees (so far, at least) bringing up the AG to play shortstop instead of using Betemit.
UPDATE, 5:37 p.m.: Ortiz, wow. What a struggle for him. Meanwhile, do you walk Manny here? I do. Or at least give him nothing good.
UPDATE, 5:28 p.m.: Like I said. Now it’s 3-2 Sox. That’s a terrible pitch.
UPDATE, 6:12 p.m.: It’s getting dark here again and there was a flash of lightning just now.
UPDATE, 6:21 p.m.: It’s raining now, pretty hard. … Wait, now it’s a rain delay. Papelbon was on the mound warming up to face A-Rod with two on and two out in the eighth.
UPDATE, 6:55 p.m.: The rain is starting to let up. The radar indicates that it should be clear enough to play soon.
UPDATE, 7:15 p.m.: They’re rolling up the tarp now. A-Rod vs. Papelbon in 20-25 minutes or so.
UPDATE, 7:25 p.m.: OK, bad news. There is more rain coming and they’re going to retarp. Is retarp a word? It is now. The tarp came off but they didn’t roll it up. The players even came out on the field.
So it can rain all game in Kansas City and they keep playing. But the threat of rain causes a delay in Boston. Then there are the Yankees, who called off Opening Day for no apparent reason. It all makes perfect sense.
UPDATE, 7:30 p.m.: The umpires knew what they were doing. It’s pouring now. By now, A-Rod could have studied every pitch Papelbon has ever thrown. I’m sure he must be getting some swings somewhere.
UPDATE, 7:37 p.m.: What will A-Rod do against Papelbon? Vote in the poll over to the right.
UPDATE, 8:04 p.m.: They’re pulling the tarp again. We’ll see if it stays off this time.
UPDATE, 8:10 p.m.: The game is scheduled to get started at 8:25 p.m.
UPDATE, 8:30 p.m.: The poll votes are in:
Get a hit: 339
Make an out: 126
Walk:45
Yell “Ha!” at Red Sox, sparking brawl: 138
Game about to start up again.
UPDATE, 8:35 p.m.: We waited all that time for a three-pitch strikeout?
Let’s Go Yankees!
mmm…irony…
Also, cue the people lambasting girardi for taking Matsui out of the lineup in favor of Damon, who will then also complain about the team’s lack of steals.
Hmmm..what’s Matsui’s stats against Beckett compared to Posada’s? It would seem like a good idea to keep Matsui as the DH if the stats don’t say otherwise.
Pretty funny that Hughes was a Sox fan and Buchholz a Yankee fan. I think Clay will be a good pitcher in this league even though he seems kinda like a junk baller. Hughes on the other hand will be great someday.
why is Matsui not playing? Keep Damon on the bench i’m so sick of this guy.
Damon is better in the outfield. Damon will come around!
Haha Bucholz isn’t even close to being a junkballer. He is a power pitcher, good fastball, sick curve, ridiculous changeup. His stuff is very very good
Buchholz is not a power pitcher nor a junker baller….He is a guy with a solid low 90′s fastball sits 89-93 who throws off his very good secondary pitches…
No need to go to the two extremes hes neither a junker baller nor a power pitcher….
Looks like the Yanks will finally have some nice warm weather. Maybe Derek will be able to run and test his leg.
Bucholtz is more comparable to Hughes. I’ve read other places where everyone wants to compare Bucholtz to Joba.
Alberto Gonzalez has hit better than Betemit. If continues moderate success and can play 2b the why do we have Betemit?
“If continues moderate success and can play 2b”
Because he’s never played much 2B. At all. If they want him to be a util guy, he needs to learn that skill in the minors.
Fan are naive of the game….they really believe they can just discharge player out of the roster at any second. Betemit is on the team and he is there until we can find a better solution. but for now people who know nothing about baseball like, “Yankee4life” need to chill.
Fans*****
“Damon is better in the outfield. ”
Really doesn’t matter too much in fenway with the tiny LF they have.
Frankly, I think it’s the “we need a prototypical lead-off man” thinking. And, also, that jeter’s out and Cano has been AWFUL in the 2-hole. Right now, I’d rather have Damon and Melky there than Melky and Cano. Given how Hideki’s been hitting, I’d keep him in at DH too. Maybe PH posada for Cano late in the game against a lefty if need be and then put betemit at 2B.
Jax, that’s what I was thinking watching him last night. Saw Buchholtz pitch the no-hitter but it was at a bar and I was in and out of the game, so last night was the first night I really watched and it is almost like he is a carbon copy of Hughes. Low to mid fastball with what seems to be late action, big, sweeping breaking ball, and an obvious need for a really good third pitch (just like Hughes needs that changeup). Hate to say it, but I think Buchholtz is gonna be good for a long time. Will probably be the Hughes/Buchholtz debate for years to come…….which would be fun
“Will probably be the Hughes/Buchholtz debate for years to come…….which would be fun”
There are some who take Buchholz over Joba right now, because Clay commands his change already, which they feel offsets the velocity differential between him and Joba.
Personally, I think that Hughes and Buchholz will wind up being comparable if they both stay healthy. And Joba could wind up better than both. Or, if he falls in love with relieving and/or the organization is dumb, he could wind up closing without ever realizing his potential.
Can we delcare that the attorney general is a better baseball player than lugo?
From what I have seen, Joba’s stuff is much better than Buchholtz and, since Joba can seemingly control ALL his pitches (99MPH fastball, best slider in the game, good curve and change) I don’t think there is a comparison. Maybe it was just the game last night but it seems that Buchholtz is EXACTLY like Hughes in that he commands his fastball and curve and had a harder time with his change, but that is just off of last night. Like I said, the similarities seemed striking between the two…………as far as Joba, I have been torn. I agree that his ultimate value is as a starter because he is so talented and could be an ace in line with Santana or Halladay or Beckett, but, then again, it seems that he is MUCH more comfortable in his reliver role (seemed like, from the quotes, he enjoys it more and feels more comfortable) so it might be that he ultimate is best left to his role of setup man and then closer in the future.
“I think that Hughes and Buchholz will wind up being comparable if they both stay healthy. And Joba could wind up better than both”
I agree like many others do.Joba is one in a million you dont watch stuff like the one he possess very often, lets just hope he stays healthy.
I FOR SOME REASON do not like hughes to much, I believe he will be a 4th or a 3rd starter at best. He’s receiving to much hype to early.
versus Beckett
matsui 3/14
posada 6/15
Pete,
what happened?
ESPN said “we were hoping to get a Yankee beat writer but unfortunately we couldn’t”
“Alberto Gonzalez has hit better than Betemit. If continues moderate success and can play 2b the why do we have Betemit?”
I really have a distaste for these types of comments, as I remember last season Bet did get a big hit for us here and there, lets not act like he’s a scrub.
Damn that Amalie Benjamin is a rookie at her work but she has a look to her …I’m sorry ladies
No New York beat writer? What happened?
Pete, you snubbed ESPN news? Way to go.
What happened to Pete?
Against Beckett:
Matsui .214
Posada .400
Damon .238
Looks like Girardi likes resting his older players, and given Matsui’s numbers against Beckett, seems like today would be a good day to rest him. The offense seems to be coming around, so I’m not too worried.
LETS GO MOOSE!!
amalie benjamin is kinda hot
Here he is!!
Pete on ESPN News!!
they called him
“Pete Rice of the Journal News”
I have a question….who thinks Joba will end up being better than Liriano? I debated this with my co-worker and my point is Joba will be better because of his body type. He will be able to get deeper into games and hopefully stay injury free for a longer time. Watta yu’ll think?
she is hot
Pete….pete….pete….pete….pete…..jajajajaja….the writer of the people…
“it seems that he is MUCH more comfortable in his reliver role”
Based on the 30 innings he’s thrown out of the pen in his life, versus years and years of starting?
I don’t care. He’s had plenty of success as a starter and needs to commit to that mentally and work at it once it’s his time. He says it’s all about the team, right? Well, the team is best served by having him come out every five days and have the ability to throw 6-8 high-quality innings. If his talent fails him, ok, move him back to the pen. But falling in love with the media-fed gunslinger-power-reliever mentality is ultimately bad for both the team AND him. He’ll make WAY more money as a starter than as a reliever, in addition to helping the team more.
“From what I have seen, Joba’s stuff is much better than Buchholtz and, since Joba can seemingly control ALL his pitches (99MPH fastball, best slider in the game, good curve and change) I don’t think there is a comparison. Maybe it was just the game last night but it seems that Buchholtz is EXACTLY like Hughes in that he commands his fastball and curve and had a harder time with his change, but that is just off of last night.”
And, like I said, every talent evaluation I’ve read puts Joba and Buchholz right next to each other. I think that he does command that change better than we saw, and that curve is definitely better than Joba’s.
HE said pete WRITES for the journel news…wow clear ur ears my friend
Pete, good job on espn! Certainly the NYY beat writer outperformed the BOS beat writer.
Boy, we’re taking this rivalry to new heights when we start comparing the won/loss records of the beat writers of the respective teams!!
That ESPN studio host is pretty poor. You would think he could read the name of the guest off the teleprompter.
if thats the case we should trade phil hughes for clay buchholz?
(i’m kidding)
Moose is gonna smoke Mr. BeckJerk. Yankees win 10-2….SWEET !
Hughes for Buchholz??
DiMaggio for Williams, Part Deux?
yeh one thing is Amalie is hot
Whozat you always on point. Are you a scout?
well, one battle we win easily is the best beat reporter, that redsox gal stumbled talking about boston, pete was just cool, let it just roll, boom…boom.. here is the info.
whozat,
we need to save your post (or CB’s, or any of the others who have had to defend Joba being a starter).
It’s getting tiring having to respond to a new “Joba should stay in the bullpen” post every day.
Why is everyone killing the ESPN host, he introduced perte just, fine. HE may have mumbled that he ‘writes’ for the journel news, but thats it. you guys are real sensitive.
*pete…hmm wheres that edit button
nice job on ESPN Pete
too bad they wasted one of the two questions they asked you on the Pettite HGH crap.
they should have asked you something worthwhile.
“my point is Joba will be better because of his body type. He will be able to get deeper into games and hopefully stay injury free for a longer time.”
I think it’s impossible to tell at this point. What’s Liriano’s delivery look like? Is he max-effort all the time? Has he ever shown an inability to go deep in games?
He’s also a lefty, which will help him put up better results over time if he stays healthy.
They’re both great, if healthy. Hopefully Joba’s conditioning has alleviated the health concerns that caused him to drop in the draft.
yea for real, just publish a response, post it on the internet, and the next time some mis-inofmred fan who thinks francesa’s word is gospel blabs about jobas a reliever we can just point them to the link
see they even realize jobas potential in Denmark haha, speaking to the choir here man…
“we need to save your post (or CB’s, or any of the others who have had to defend Joba being a starter).”
I’m sure there are articles out there that address it. I’ll whip up a firefox extension that automatically posts a link to one on this blog with the push of a button.
(no, I won’t…but I could!)
Pete,
you need to set up a FAQ section
1. Q: why should Joba NOT stay in the bullpen? A: see CB or whozat’s post
2. Q: what is wrong with Phil Hughes and the radar gun? A: nothing.
Yikes…. Amalie Benjamin … is hot, strange taste around here… I guess you guys like that plain jane librarian look.
“Whozat you always on point. Are you a scout?”
No. I just hate my job and procrastinate at work by reading about the Yankees. A lot
I’ve learned an incredible amount in the last year or two by reading Goldman over at yesnetwork.com, Pete here, baseball analyst, baseball america and baseball prospectus, all that stuff. And listening to Jim Kaat and Al Leiter and, now, Coney on the YES broadcasts. It’s really made watching the games vastly more interesting.
“Yikes…. Amalie Benjamin … is hot, strange taste around here… I guess you guys like that plain jane librarian look.”
I find the liberian clean look sexy, I guess your into the slutty look
Mick,
agreed. she’s ok but I wouldn’t throw “hot” around with her. Although it’s very hard for me to consider any Sox chick as hot so maybe I am biased.
librarian *
“Amalie Benjamin … is hot, strange taste around here… I guess you guys like that plain jane librarian look.”
She looks like a real person. And seems smart and into sports. Why would that not be interesting to a bunch of dudes on a baseball blog?
Whozat,
It doesn’t matter that he has been a starter for his entire minor league career (which was absolutely no time at all really), it matters what he is MOST comfortable with. That’s all nice and fine to say “he needs to suck it up and get out there as a starter” but the fact is, if he isn’t as EFFECTIVE for any reason, then he is more valuable as a reliever. Like I said, I have been torn because I AGREE that his ultimate value would be as a shut down starter, but if HE doesn’t want the role, you can dream about a day where you turn to a kid with his talent and say “my way or the highway” but those days are long gone my friend. It DOES matter what he wants. His quotes in spring, when he was moved back to the pen role, were MOST telling. He talked about “being back in the saddle” and it being “like riding a bike” and him “feeling like it was old times.” If that is the case, then the Yanks might not be served forcing him into the rotation. All things being equal, he is more valuable as a starter, no question, but things might not be equal and that is a fact…………..as far as talent evaluators……..honestly, I could care less. Joba wasn’t even on the radar screen last year, and I’m sure those same talent evaluators had Hughes rated MUCH higher than Joba. And as far as evaluation, the Yanks certainly don’t subscribe to that idea since they were willing to at least discuss Hughes for Santana and made Joba COMPLETELY untouchable. By the way, the Sox were willing to discuss Buchholtz for Santana as well. Use the eye test……who has the better stuff?
Santana just allowed HR # 2
Joba has 3 plus pitches he can throw for strikes, with a fourth (a changeup) not too far behind.
Those guys become aces, not relief pitchers, and certainly not setup guys.
The comparison made by some in the media to Papelbon makes no sense.
First off, Papelbon is a closer, not a setup guy. Joba isn’t going to be wasted as a setup guy for 3 years, the length of Mariano’s contract.
They also aren’t moving Mariano for Joba in the closers role.
Second, Papelbon needed to go to the bullpen for 2 reasons. One, his health. His shoulder simply can’t handle a 200 inning workload. Second, he can only throw 2 pitches for strikes. A fastball and a splitter.
Joba’s arsonal is so much more than any young pitcher in the game its not funny.
Nobody, not Hughes, Liriano, Buchholz, Lester, not a single pitcher under the age of 23 in the game, possess his stuff. Its not even debatable. He’s that good.
The only people crowing for him to remain in the bullpen in his career are either people who know nothing about baseball (Mike Francesa) and people who haven’t ever seen him as a starter (Mike Francesa and about 95% of the of the fans and media).
This kid was so dominant as a starter last year, he rocketed through the system.
He’s too good to remain a setup guy. Right now, its the best place for him. The future? Its not even a debate to those who truly understand the game.
The Yankees are playing this perfectly. They are saying and doing the right things to develop him. Both for the short term and long term.
Just enjoy the ride with Joba and don’t get caught up in silly debates over where he belongs.
John,
I have never heard Joba say he didnt want to start and if you’ve heard him say he’s more comfortable coming out of the bullpen, please provide a link to the quote.
The Sox never put Buchholz on the table for Santana (at least it was never reported).
You don’t waste Joba’s arm in the pen. IF he fails as a starter, after a large enough sample, of course you may consider putting him back in the pen. Don’t bet on that happening.
Fran, I’m thinking that maybe today is going to be Moose’s day to shine. Maybe the Yanks will get to the big hayseed Beckett eventually and take the game but by not so many runs.
Anyway I hope this prediction is right since it would be nice to take the series and get it done today!
See you around game time.
Ok
She’s into sports …has a job… I’ll say she not bad if she is a good cook, since that is a dying art in society.
Btw the redsox CHUMP
sj44,
my understanding is that joba is in the pen for two reasons, to manage his innings limit and to wait for other relievers to come aboard. given that melancon has struggled a little bit, what are your thoughts as to timeline? I fully realize that it’s only a few games and that melancon has serious game. Do you think he needs a little more time, or is the all star break still reasonable?
“the Sox were willing to discuss Buchholtz for Santana as well. Use the eye test……who has the better stuff?”
Santana without a question
“Use the eye test……who has the better stuff?”
By “stuff” do you mean “velocity”?
Because I don’t. Buchholz has a better curve and a great change. His command with these, and his FB, makes it a good pitch too. Joba has a better fastball and a better slider, but his change is only OK and his curve is also good. So…each has good command, two plus pitches and a third good offering, and a fourth ok pitch.
“His quotes in spring, when he was moved back to the pen role, were MOST telling.”
Then he’s not interested in what’s best for the team. And for a 22 year old kid, that’s not ok.
SJ44,
can you help me to understand why Papelbon is so effective? He hardly ever throws the splitter and hitters must be sitting fastball every pitch.
I know he typically locates well and hits 95-96, but he has far exceeded what I would expect from watching him throw. I have to assume he has great late life (as I’ve heard you say regarding Hughes) or has a deceptive delivery or some other form of deception.
I can see why he’d be a great reliever, but this great??
SJ44,
Again, the one point I have brought up and will continue to bring up is this: how do figure in what JOBA wants to do and what he feels most comfortable doing? Like I have said time and again, his GREATEST value is as a starter, no question, but if mentally he LOVES his relief role and feels more comfortable there, moving him might not work out. Some starters are incapable of moving to the pen, some relievers can’t move into the rotation. Joba is an oddity in that he has the capability to do both (four pitches, making him a starter quality pitcher, yet two pitches in a slider and fastball so dominate he can close out games). I have been a HUGE supporter of Joba as a starter, but his quotes in the spring and his seeming desire to stay in the bullpen have somewhat changed my mind. Not completely, but I do think it is something that has to be factored in, and while I understand Whozat’s point, I don’t think it is as easy as saying “he needs to do what they tell him to do.” If it were that easy with ANY of these guys, sports would be a much different.
Just did a little stat and number crunching
Kyle Farnsworth against Boston….
Over the course of 7 games Farnsworth pitched 6.2 innings; his numbers were nothing short of complete awesomeness: 12 base runners, 2 home runs allowed, a 6.75 ERA.
John,
what evidence do you have that Joba wants to stay in the pen?
I have yet to see any…. so your argument isn’t very compelling. A bunch of “ifs” that have nothing behind them.
Boston Dave- One word “location”. that’s why papelbon is so effective. he locates his pitches just like Mariano.
Yeah SJ.. Joba will be starting net yr for sure… No more Moose and maybe no more Pettitte.
He hs thrown 5 innings so far for the year. at the allstar breakhe will have 65 or so innings.. Then they can keep him in his role thru the year or figure it out.
Talent like Joba cannot be wasted in the pen.. Papalebon is 27 Joba is 23……..
Trisha – I am backing you. You’ve been right so far!
“I have been a HUGE supporter of Joba as a starter, but his quotes in the spring and his seeming desire to stay in the bullpen have somewhat changed my mind.”
Perhaps it was because everyone, including Joba, basically knew he was going to the pen to start the year. Under those conditions, I could see how pitching as a starter in spring would feel kind of…awkward and pointless to him.
tease,
I get that… but he does miss his spots occasionally (more than Mariano IMO) and has a ridiculous ERA. Mariano has the insane movement on his cutter. Pap’s fastballs are seemingly with much less movement.
I guess that’s enough though. I wasn’t sure if he had great late life on his fastball which made it very hard for hitters to time their swings.
I like it when people use Joba’s quotes the wrong way in the Spring all he said was he was happy to know his role, he knows he is a SP the organization has put the blueprint out already, only reason this is question is because a couple of FAT BUMS ! from WFAN can’t keep thier opinion away from facts. The organization since day 1 has let Joba know he is a future SP why else would he be working on his 4 pitches in bullpen sessions. Everyone knows the deal except for that small % that get so annoying w/ the he needs to be a CL talk.
Santana lets another HR go WTF
Santana gives up another HR
Santana continues to give up lots of home-runs.
Joba has started his entire life. He has pitched a little over 30 innings in relief in his entire career.
Johan Santana signed a 137.5 million dollar contract as an “ace” of a staff.
Mariano, the greatest relief pitcher in the history of the game, signed a 42 million dollar deal.
What do you think he is going to choose? lol
Seriously though, his stuff translates to being a starter. Too many plus pitches to waste in the ‘pen.
He says the right things publicly. Privately, and the numbers back it up, he will be in the rotation and happy to be there.
Dave, Papelbon is effective for two reasons. One, location. He, like Mariano, can paint. That trumps guys wiht only velocity every time.
Second, he has no fear of failure. The greatest trait a relief pitcher can have, next to command, is a short memory.
Add it up, and you have a great closer.
Its not just velocity. If it was, guys like Farnsworth would be unhittable.
Its the entire package and Papelbon has it. Its a rare commodity.
“what evidence do you have that Joba wants to stay in the pen?”
When the media, unsurprisingly, mobbed him once it was official that he was going back to the pen, they were asking if going back would be difficult. He said no, it’s like riding a bike, getting back in the saddle, it feels fine, it’s good, I like it yadda yadda. He also mentioned that he wasn’t just letting his slider go when he was prepping to be a starter. Given that he’s been a starting pitcher for years (don’t forget all of college), I don’t think that should be a problem when they transition him back.
Boston Dave-
“I have to assume he has great late life (as I’ve heard you say regarding Hughes) or has a deceptive delivery or some other form of deception.”
Alot of pitcher have late life on their fastball is just the location they have problems with. To locate your fastball on a consistent basist is the part most pitcher have a problem with. Thats why Mariano is so good, he is able to throw the same pitch 100 times in the same spot. Pitching is a combination of great arm and great control. If a pitcher lacks one of the other. He will not be great.
Whozat,
It isn’t just about velocity, even though I do think, when you’re talking about someone who can throw triple digits with accuracy, that has to be taken into account. Let’s look at the two pitchers and compare: Joba has the much better fastball and has perhaps the best slider in the game. He then has a good curve and a decent change. Buchholtz has the better curve and I’ll take your word for it that he has the better change (wasn’t a great one last night but that’s only one game). However, Joba’s two best pitches (fastball, slider) seem infinitely more devastating than Buchholtz two best pitches (fastball, curve), and Joba’s accuracy with his pitches is incredible.
As far as “doing what is best for the team” I don’t necessarily believe it is a question of selfishness. I have no doubt Joba would move into the rotation without any objections, but the question is, mentally, would he feel comfortable. For instance, there is absolutely no reason why a batter’s position on the field or even their position in the lineup should effective their approach to hitting, right? A hitter should hit. Some guys can. Mattingly could hit anywhere you put him. Two hole? Three hole? Four hole? Didn’t matter, he was the same guy. Jeter is a lot like that. Leadoff, two hole, three hole, he takes the same approach. Then look at as guy like Giambi, who has it in his head he is a better hitter when playing the field. It doesn’t mean he refuses to DH, or that he storms out of the manager’s office when he is asked to to so, or demands a trade, or any “selfish” act. It simply means that he isn’t comfortable with the role. That is my only point about Joba. I HOPE, personally, he takes to being a starter and it GREAT. I think the team would be better off. My question is whether he has gotten to a point mentally where he WANTS to be a closer/reliever and that will effect him. That’s my only point
Gavin Floyd with a no hitter throuh 6 against the mighty Tiggers lineup.
Boston Dave-
“I get that… but he does miss his spots occasionally (more than Mariano IMO) and has a ridiculous ERA.”
I agree with you.
“he takes to being a starter and it GREAT.”
He has been a starter for his whole life. Doesn’t compare to the Giambi thing, who has been playing in the field for his whole life.
“However, Joba’s two best pitches (fastball, slider) seem infinitely more devastating than Buchholtz two best pitches (fastball, curve),”
a) Joba won’t be throwing triple digits with accuracy at all times. mid-high 90s, yes. And that’s awesome.
b) Buch’s two best pitches are, I believe his curve and his change, and both can be devastating.
boston Dave-
Does Papelbon have a flat fastball? I can’t see movement on it. If is a flat fastball, i’ll be surprised of how succesful he is.
I don’t get to watch him pitch much thats why I ask.
“I have no doubt Joba would move into the rotation without any objections, but the question is, mentally, would he feel comfortable. ”
my man do you hear yourself ! this is a pitcher that started all his life prior to the sample innings of last year, how is he not going to be comfortable it’s not like he’s going to forget how to throw a ball to the plate, he handles pressure well and that’s the first sign of an ACE pitcher, only question would be endurance which everyone should know is not Joba’s problem.
John,
Joba has been a starter for 90% of his career. You have ZERO evidence that he will be more comfortable in the pen.
Give it a rest.
After seeing Johan give up another HR, I am just happy that we didn’t trade for him. I love Johan but the domino effect of that trade would have hurt the Yankees.
A. We would have lost 2/5 of our current starting rotation
B. Our best defending OFer who has actually won us two games this year.
C. No solid bridge to Mo as Joba would be in the starting rotation already and on a 140 IP limit.
Instead we have a full rotation that will only get better when Joba becomes a starter while still having him dominate guys in the 7th/8th innings of games in the first half of the season and Melky who is off to a great start.
Not to mention possibly losing AJax or Jose Tabata who are starting to hit their stride down in Trenton and/or Alan Horne, who although just got injured, had a solid first start in Scranton.
Boston Dave, here are some quotes from an article by Mark Feisand on March 21st. I didn’t realize I needed to list my bibliography on the LoHud Message Board, but here you go, take away from it what you will. What I took away from it was someone who seemed to be saying he was more comfortable in a familiar bullpen role.
“Just getting going, it’s like riding a bike,” Chamberlain said. “My arm actually warmed up quicker than I thought it would. I’ve been getting stretched out and taking my time, but I tried to make it as realistic as I could. My arm reacted really well.”
Chamberlain admitted that he was more aggressive yesterday than he had been all spring, throwing with everything he had on every pitch. Kennedy noticed the same thing, adding that it would be impossible to do that over the course of 100 pitches.
“He hasn’t skipped a beat at all; he looks like he did last year,” Kennedy said. “It’s totally different when he starts and relieves. He looked totally different today. ”
Chamberlain said he attacked the strike zone and didn’t try to “baby” his slider yesterday, allowing it to have the sharp break he showed late last summer.
“You don’t necessarily consciously hold something back, but you cut something off because you know you have four, five or six innings to go,” he said. “Knowing it’s one inning, being aggressive and throwing as hard as I can, it was better.”
tease,
I wouldnt say Pap’s fastball is flat, but I dont see enough movement on it to warrant the number of swings and misses he gets.
It leads me to believe that hitters just cant time his fastball… which is why I was asking SJ44 or someone with more knowledge on that then myself.
NYYFan you could say right now Melky is our best clutch hitter this season so far.
Not to mention AJax and Tabata who are starting to hit their stride in Trenton and Alan Horne who, although recently injured, had a solid Scranton debut.
Sorry for the double post.
John,
If that is it, then I guess we can put it to rest. You have no evidence.
Its fine, because we all agree that Joba is better off in the pen. So, your lack of evidence is a good thing.
John,
If that is it, then I guess we can put it to rest. You have no evidence.
Its fine, because we all agree that Joba is better off in the rotation*. So, your lack of evidence is a good thing.
*rotation
I’m confused by something………….Joba Chamberlain has pitched as a starter his entire life, which means absolutely ZERO considering the ONLY experience he has in the majors has been as a reliever, and the only success he has had in the majors has been as a reliever. You don’t honestly believe that, perhaps, Joba has sat down and thought about the fact that he has been DOMINATE in one role and has never even attempted to pitch in the majors in another role? Maybe he feels more comfortable in a role he KNOWS he can succeed in? He has dominated in the MAJORS as a reliever. We can only GUESS he will be dominate as a starter………..by the way, Mariano Rivera was a starter all his life as well until coming up to the majors
I’m planning a trip to Montreal and Quebec are there any french canadians out there?
Gavin Floyd through 7 innings…. Tiggers with zero hits
Boston Dave, perfect timing to miss executing your sentence ;o)
John,
There is a general consensus that only a fool would prevent Joba from attempting to be a starter in the majors.
If you actually think you’re going to change any minds with the argument you’ve laid out, best of luck to you.
“by the way, Mariano Rivera was a starter all his life as well until coming up to the majors”
oh man I wish there was an ignore button for you, the only reason Mo was moved was because he didn’t have that great of a 2nd or 3rd pitch, your evidence really stinks. Your lucky Whozat is in a good mood he usually comes through w/ the stats of each players and proves how lopsidedly stupid this opinion of yours is.
Joba’s future is in the rotation.
If Santana was a free agent, there is no doubt in my mind he would be a Yankee today.
The entire Santana debate was not just about money. It was about money AND players.
When you add BOTH, no pitcher, not Johan Santana, not anybody, is worth giving up your starting CF, top young starter (Kennedy) and best starter (Wang), which was the last Twins offer to the Yankees.
Its also not worth giving up your starting CF, 2 top young arms (Kennedy and Hughes) AND another prospect.
No player who only plays once every five days is worth that bounty.
That’s why the Twins didn’t get what they wanted for him.
Its water under the bridge now. He’s a great pitcher. He’s just not worth what some were willing to give up to get him.
Wouter,
I know – I need to get out of that discussion!
what’s the next topic?
John, Mariano was actually given a shot as a starter in the majors: 10 GS, 50 IP, 3-3, 8 HR allowed, 5.94 ERA. That didn’t exactly work out.
Joba hasn’t had that chance yet.
Tigers are 5 outs away from hitting rock bottom.
Boston Dave,
Sorry, I do not have blood samples or forensics or hidden tapes, which is evidently what you are looking for. My point was that it seems Joba might be more comfortable in the bullpen role and, to back that up, I provided an article where he essential says “I felt more comfortable pitching today out of the bullpen,” but, you’re right, that’s not evidence. In that same article Chamberlain was quoted as saying “if it aint broke don’t fix it” with a big grin on his face. If by evidence you mean a quote where Joba says “I will only pitch out of the bullpen and will NEVER pitch in the rotation,” than yes, you are right, I have no evidence, but since NO ATHLETE would ever say that, even if they felt it, I think such “evidence” would be hard to come by.
Man, I’m watching Gavin Floyd pitch, but I’d almost forgotten what morons the Sox announcers are…
Reading your discussion about Joba and his role. Joba will pitch in whatever role the Yanks tell him.
“Chamberlain admitted that he was more aggressive yesterday than he had been all spring, throwing with everything he had on every pitch. Kennedy noticed the same thing, adding that it would be impossible to do that over the course of 100 pitches.”
This sounds like the Mariano influence. Mo was quoted in one of the NY papers the other day as saying that Joba should stay in the pen. Mo said that you don’t know if Joba could sustain his velocity and effectiveness in the course of starting a game and going through the rotation 3 times.
I still think that Joba should start. But I would feel a lot more comfortable knowing who was going in the 8th inning role.
and Edgar Renteria saves (or ruins) the day
Guess I jinxed him.
Mariano never had the minor league success as a starter Joba had. Not even close.
Joba was throwing 98-100, with location, in the 7th inning of starts last year.
Mariano never had 3 pitches he could throw for strikes in his ENTIRE career, let alone his minor league career. Joba already has 3 plus pitches.
It took Mariano years to make the majors. Joba made it, based on his starting ability, in under ONE year of professional ball. That’s amazing.
Even more amazing to do it as a Yankee. A team notorious for babying their young arms.
Folks get too blinded by 30 innings in the bullpen.
If that is to be his role, why aren’t the Blue Jays putting Halliday in the bullpen in front of BJ Ryan? Or, the Red Sox putting Beckett in front of Papelbon? Or, the Mets putting Santana in front of Wagner?
When you are talking about an elite arm like Joba, that’s the company we are talking about. Not comparing him to 8th inning setup guys.
Look at Chien Ming Wang last night and ask yourself, what would it be like if Joba Chamberlain was today’s starter?
How much tougher is it on teams to go Pettitte, Wang, Chamberlain and Hughes, back to back to back in a 4 game series?
I shudder to think how good this team can be if that ends up being the Top 4 guys in the rotation the second half of the year.
Please don’t let Muss pull a muscle in warmups!
I want him on that mound today!
John,
I will let your posts speak for themselves. The first thing I posted today was how tiring it was getting discussing the Joba staying in the pen debate.
Its a joke. If anyone else wants to discuss it with you, more power to them. I am tired of hearing and reading your nonsense.
Here’s how Youkilis will look like ten years from now.
Brandon,
I guess I am lucky everyone is in a good mood because then I would be pounded with the years worth of statistics showing how much more dominate Joba is as a major league starter than he is as a major league reliever………..oh wait, he has NEVER started a game in the majors…….oh wait, the ONLY success he has EVER had has been as a reliever, where he has become a cult hero coming in the eighth and closing players out. But I’m sure that isn’t something that has ever crossed his mind. I’m sure that a player like Joba would never, ever WANT to stay in a role where he knows he is utterly dominate and already beloved by the fan base. That would be stupid to believe. You are a wordsmith my friend. Your “logic” is beyond question. When you wrote “Joba’s future is in the rotation” I had never thought of it that way.
Matsui should be the DH today. Give Posada a day off. IMO
Boston Dave,
The fact that you no longer want to post in reponse to my posts is a great disappointment, considering your posts have consisted of “you have no evidence” and then the utterly devastating response of “me tired of talking, no want to talk no more.” But, before you go to your next Mensa meeting, please answer me this……..if you even READ my posts, answer me why my “point” of Joba personally possibly feeling more comfortable in the bullpen, the ONLY role he has known in the majors and the ONLY place he has had success, if a “stupid” point? I think I have been pretty clear stating that I think his greatest value would be as a starter, and I think I have also been pretty clear in stating that I don’t know what his true beliefs are, but I guess it is out of the realm of possibility that a young man who has become a cult hero in a certain role would want to stay in that role. I guess that is just a stupid point.
Santana gives up a 3rd homer
John,
can we at least agree that is makes sense to TRY Joba in the rotation before reaching any final conclusion?
Ha, another Santana homer.
make that 3 hr’s allowed by santana
U & I, that looks like Cano now.
Santana allows ANOTHER homerun.
John,
its not a stupid point. It’s just a discussion that is held almost EVERY day and you have added nothing NEW to the discussion.
It is my fault for engaging in it.
“It is my fault for engaging in it.”
yes it is.
JOHNNY DAMON BETTER GET A DAMN HIT TODAY
I haven’t officially checked. But looks like Sheffield has more steals than the Yanks as a team.
anti-mussina,
if the first 10 games are an indication, then there is a 70% chance he will.
of course it may be a little harder against Beckett.
“JOHNNY DAMON BETTER GET A DAMN HIT TODAY”
your going to break his legs
U & I
I dont think you need to check on that one.
I am guessing Sheff would love to trade some of his steals for team wins however
Boston Dave,
The one thing I guess we can both agree upon is that we both wish you had never decided to “respond” to my original post.
“I haven’t officially checked. But looks like Sheffield has more steals than the Yanks as a team.”
and even w/ that we still have the better record
John,
right on. Its probably best that we all take that advice with any of your future posts to avoid this type of unnecessary banter.
Well, in fact, I have as much steals as all the yankees combined ;o)
Today is an early season example of the problems the Tigers may encounter this year.
Willis got hurt yesterday and Leyland had to juggle the bullpen like crazy to massage a win.
Today, on a cold day, Verlander is up to 115 pitches in the 8th inning, losing it, and Leyland has confidence in nobody in that bullpen. They are now losing 4-0.
If the score holds up, they are 2-9 to start the year.
They traded away most of the viable pieces in their farm system in the Renteria and Willis/Cabrera deals.
They have to pray that Zumaya and Rodney come back and are at their effective levels almost from their first days back in the saddle. No easy feat.
In other words, they are like the 2002-2007 Yankees.
Not the way to win these days.
They are also in a tough division.
Gonna be tough for the Tigers unless their starters log lots of innings early in this season.
Even when they hit, and they will hit, they are going to need help in other areas or they aren’t making the playoffs.
140 million dollar payroll and no playoffs? That won’t make the folks happy in Detroit.
Boston Dave,
Very true……….upon further review, my post was mostly “pointless banter” especially when compared to your riveting “Matsui should be the DH today. Give Posada a day off. IMO” post. The height of intellectual debate. And in response, I would ask, where is your proof that Posada needs a day off? Must be because of all the games straight he has played behind the plate.
Glad we didn’t trade for Santana…5 ER today in Shea Stadium debut…early, but I would prefer the youngsters.
Kevin
Tigers getting the Wang treatment.
whats wrong with 03 and 04 yankees? if it wasn’t for idiot torre they would’ve won 2 more rings
Best news ever… Fox is not carrying the game which means I don’t have to mute out Tim McCarver… Has to be a good sign for the Yankees.
Sorry for those of you who have to listen to him…
if not fox, then who has the game in ny?
FYI – Some ERA+ leader amoungst active Pitchers, 1000+ IPs
01. Pedro Martinez (36) 160 R
08. Brandon Webb (29) 144 R
10. Johan Santana* (29) 142 L
15. Roy Oswalt (30) 139 R
16. Randy Johnson* (44) 138 L
24. Greg Maddux (42) 134 R
41. Roy Halladay (31) 128 R
42. Curt Schilling (41) 127 R
42. John Smoltz (41) 127 R
42. Mike Timlin (42) 127 R
59. Bob Wickman (39) 125 R
84. Mike Mussina (39) 122 R
92. Mark Buehrle* (29) 121 L
92. Derek Lowe (35) 121 R
106. Jake Peavy (27) 120 R
105. Barry Zito* (30) 120 L
119. Glavine (49) 119 L
134. Andy Pettitte* (36) 118 L
Someone here thinks Peavy is better then Webb?
Wang and many others are NOT here because then have less then 1000 IPs. However, this shows you the TOP ERA+ leaders who do.
Not including 2008, Wang’s Career ERA+ is 121.
Not including 2008, Beckett’s Career ERA+ is 115.
Pepper Brooks,
that is good news. I’m stuck with FOX. I need to get XM so I can mute them and listen on the radio.
“whats wrong with 03 and 04 yankees? if it wasn’t for idiot torre they would’ve won 2 more rings”
I swear I will never forgive him for bringing Weaver in Gm. 6 in Florida and not bunting vs Schilling
“if not fox, then who has the game in ny?”
FOX 5 in NY is carrying the game
P.S. The numbers are RANKING ALL-TIME, all pitchers.
Pedro has the best ERA+ in baseball history.
Compared to:
02. Lefty Grove* 148 L
03. Walter Johnson 147 R
09. Roger Clemens 143 R
16. Cy Young+ 138 R
then what the hell is Pepper Brooks talking about? out of market?
Bill…
sorry not in NY.. I am out west and Fox is giving us Arizona and Colorado…
Did Leyland mismanage this game? Was there no one to go to in the pen? He left Verlander in way too long.
Tigers are stinkin’ it up in Chicago. No relief in sight. When the hole is deep enough, stop digging. They would have to have a torrid 5-week stretch and hope that those above them get cold at the same time.
Steve Phillips really knows how to pick ‘em.
And the Tigers fall to 2-9
Shaky start to Verlander’s season
Best news ever… Fox is not carrying the game which means I don’t have to mute out Tim McCarver… Has to be a good sign for the Yankees.
Best news ever?
I’d rather have the ability to watch the game and deal with McCarver than not watch the game at all.
“Someone here thinks Peavy is better then Webb?”
Brandon Webb is one of the most under rated players in baseball.
When you look at his body of work it’s very impressive.
He is an example of how it can be misleading to only focus on a pitcher’s won-loss record.
I’m not one who thinks wins and losses are meaningless but Webb is a pitcher who is clearly better than what his record suggests because he’s pitched on some bad teams with really anemic offenses.
mel,
see SJ’s post
Dontrelle Willis getting hurt last night left their pen in a tough spot.
Tigers are in trubba.
I’m praying for Ubaldo Jimenez and Franklin Morales to suck so bad that they ask for Farnsy again.
really???
listening to McCarver is a form of torture that is illegal in all countries, by the UN, and was only reintroduced as part of the FISA law.
Tigers are done aren’t they?
I guess they could, but has a team ever come back from a 2-9 start to even make the playoffs?
ha, FOX playing vampire weekend there for about 10 secs
Action Jackson has 3 hits today and is becoming a best running pest
Looking forward to the game!
Per Fox, Jeter took BP and grounders today. Progress.
Bob, there are 151 games to play. The Tigers are 4.5 games behind. The Phillies started 3-10 last year. They made up 7 games in the last 17. Granted, the Tigers look bad right now, but nobody is done in April.
“Per Fox, Jeter took BP and grounders today. Progress.”
did he range to his left
I’m scare of Beckett.
“I’m scare of Beckett.”
he’s going to pitch a perfect game
how about that “Game Over” closes the game at Shea
“did he range to his left”
Ever?
Joe have that BP on speed dial
so is santana 0-2 as a met?
Our ACE
3-0 1.23 ERA 12H 11SO 1HR
Mets ACE
1-2 3.05 ERA 16H 18SO 4HR
BTW I just made kick butt black and white cookies!!
Bob,
No team has started 0-7 and made the playoffs.
The Tigers don’t really have the pieces to trade for bullpen or rotation help. It would seem unlikely to me that a team that relies as much on offense would be able to hold up and come back from such a bad start but its certainly possible (and as Wouter said “its April”). It will be tough for them to keep up with a much more well-balanced team like Cleveland.
Hopefully Derek can be back by Monday.
1-7
Mike Eff – 1-2. He defeated Fla. in his first start.
A-Rod = Best frosted tips in baseball? LOL, nice job Joba.
Any bets on who hits a homerun off Mussina first..Ortiz or Manny? I say Manny in his 2nd at bat.
Joba: “of the 27 Molina’s our’s is Jose ”
“Alex I have the best frosted tips in basball Rodriguez”
oh that’s right, thanks fran and jenn!
The Yankees can hit Beckett. Can Boston hit Mussina? Yes. This could be an 8-7 game.
That’s interesting about Hughes and Buchholz. Why not just trade them straight up?
Rebecca is there today I think. Wonder how the Boston crowd deals with the Optimism?
i hate it when they swing through that high FB
Brandon – Joba was amazing! “The man who graduated from Stanford…Mike Mussina”
Santana has given up 4 bombs in 3 games. Wasnt that one of the fears some had in optaining him?
I’m in southern cali and yet I’m able to watch the game both on Fox and mlb.tv. I was also able to watch last saturday afternoon’s game on mlb.tv also. I couldn’t do that in 2006 & 2007. Did mlb and Fox reached a new agreement where saturday afternoon games are no longer blacked out on mlb.tv?
I always find it funny when they say “David Ortiz, the DH”. As if anybody would think he’s playing center field today. Or even owns a glove. Or would want to interrupt the consuming of pork chops in order to catch a baseball.
my god … Muss is not going to make it past the 3rd inning today
“i hate it when they swing through that high FB”
The way the shadows are falling just past the mound is going to be brutal for the yankee hitters against a power pitcher like Beckett.
They are just not going to be able to pick up the ball effectively.
Mussina is going to have to keep this game close until the sun moves.
Mussina really needed that one
Nice by Mussina.
Luck turning his way.
CB: you’re absolutely right, thanks—–moose gets DP!
Nice! One more out…
Ortiz is really struggling and is laboring this year. They actually booed him going back to the dugout.
I’m sick of seeing Froncona and Big Poopi spitting! Stop it Fox.
I guess thats why hes won gold gloves for years. Wouldnt it have been easier to throw to third to first?
Fox gun off?
FB at 84 Slider at 86? Does that make sense?
Hey Joe: Ortiz didn’t bat in the ninth inning last night.
“They actually booed him going back to the dugout.”
The Fenway Faithful for ya…..
Global
Next we’ll see someone clipping his toe nails in the dugout.
Nice inning by Mussina.
Did we really just see that half an inning? Did it really happen?
“The Fenway Faithful for ya…”
Right, because the Yankee fans never get moody when an all-star is going through a slump.
SoS: did someone say it was your birthday? if so, have a happy one…
moose escapes!
Moose pitched him inside I mean a good inside jam pitch
Nice popup by Manny & nice popup of Alex’s gum onto the hallowed grass of Fenway.
I wonder if that surgery Ortiz had on his knee is the reason for his current struggles
Its why I hate 4 pm games at Fenway. The shadows are brutal. Big advantage to the power pitcher.
Although Big Papi didn’t see the 3-1 pitch that well when he hit into the DP.
I just walked in the door in time to see Mussina work out of trouble. Hooray!!!! Very happy for him.
But MLB doesn’t care about it. It is all about the ole’ mighty dollar.
I’m thinking the rumors about Papi in D.R. is true
Thanks MikeEff,
Trying to get my Yankee fix before we go out. Much appreciated.
Brandon what rumors?
I’m scare of Beckett. Perfect game still intact after 2.
“Brandon what rumors?”
he uses steroids
No. Big Papi is just like every other mortal that plays the game. He’s going through a tough slump.
Its happened to Jeter, Arod, Manny for the first 3 months of last year, and everybody else who has ever hit in the majors.
Its just magnified now because every game is on TV or radio.
He’ll snap out of it. He’s too good not to snap out of it.
Just like Robinson Cano isn’t going to hit .170 this season.
Its a long, long season and good hitters always end up hitting.
So Jose Reyes is out with a tight hamstring. Not sure if it is the same hamstring that he had a couple years age.
I like how mets fans insisted that he was better than DJ after on good year. Give it another year and theyll probably be looking to trade him.
SJ,
Maybe the shadows will help Mussina go deep into this game. Ill take our bullpen this year over theirs.
EWWW on the radio they are talking about the hawk. He is there now, flew over them with a rat in his talons. Spoke of how the other day he dropped a mouse on a fan.
Our guys!
oh Robi …ohhh
Nice Robbie. That could have been bad.
You see Cano make plays like that… there just are not many second basemen in the game who can make that pick. What a talent.
canowned
Okay now let’s see if the superstition has something behind it.
Josh Beckett is pitching a perfect game.
I guess Morgan will see time, hopefully Jete will be back by than, otherwise we will be short another player.
The frustrating thing about Cano is that he’ll make terrific plays like that, then boot a routine grounder.
Come on boys help Moose out!!
what was Tek thinking
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That means I’m really liking what I’m seeing. Varitek running on Abreu’s arm is, well, funny.
trisha, perfect game perfect game perfect game.
varitek made a big mistake there. they can’t sign him to a big deal, can they?
Wow, Mussina’s getting hit hard and we’re getting away with it.
I don’t think Boston wants to win today.
What a pick by cano. Red Sox look real unsure of themselves, other than beckett.
Mussina is living dangerously – a lot of hard hit shots but he’s given them 2 scoreless innings.
They only need 6 from him today with a rested Joba and Mo.
Brandon,
didnt you say it was almost common knowledge in the D.R. that Papi has used PED’s? Not saying it’s 100% true if that’s the case, but I thought you had said it’s more than just a wild rumor?
i have no idea brandon…but i loved watching it…
Mussina is not good at all.
Scary bad.
Man, this is just no fair – guys, please pound Beckett soon – my fantasy opponent has Smoltz (6 IP, 1 ER), Haren (2 IP, 0 ER so far today) and Beckett going today….
The fumble by Bobby helped with that put out.
Anyone know why Gameday wasn’t showing mph, etc. for Wakefield’s last start?
9 up 9 down. Already perfect through 3 innings. Beckett unstoppable again.
I think Cano will easily snap out of his early saeson slump…However Big Papi is in the twilight of his career, so this could be more than just a early season funk…He’s on the downward slide SJ…..He’ll have some streaks, but he’s slowing down..
That was a terrible base running move by Varitek but that was also a very good defensive play by Abreu. Not only the stop but having the awareness to get the ball back quickly and to throw a strike
haha pedroia sucks
Yep, Sox want to lose today.
Boston
Someone brought it up during the off season. Said it was a well known fact in the dr.
Error. Good for Robi though.
BD it’s not a wild rumor it’s almost a fact out there but here in the states it really is presented as a rumor, I told you during the investigations Papi more than likely used roids and in the latin community in D.R. it isn’t just believed , players there almost know it as a fact..it’s just hush hush because of what he means out there.
I so wanted a hit-and-run with Molina at the plate. Come on Attorney.
Perfect game is gone!
Now we just need to get rid of the no-hitter and shut out.
Kevin Youkilis after today’s game:
“You know what you’re going to get with Mussina. All he has is the fastball, slider, change, curve, knuckle-curve, etc. One of those nights balls weren’t falling in, we didn’t get any breaks.”
beckett is showing what a real ace looks like
There you had it. The minute I said it, Yanks got a hit. I don’t care who believes it and who doesn’t. Why the hell can’t someone remove Michael Kay’s damned vocal chords!!!!!
“Someone brought it up during the off season. Said it was a well known fact in the dr.”
that was me
alberto was safe
ALberto
Learning from Melky. He probably would have been safe had he run through the bag!
Good effort by the AG. Let’s go JD.
Oh. Error. Well now we’ll see if Kay’s vocal chords have to be removed.
It’s still early.
If you dont like Kay dont listen you have the power to turn him off
Johnny these are the times you need to get hits.
Who said error? FOX is showing one hit.
Just a question, who does Manny expect to get his hat? Or is that just Manny being Manny too?
Brandon,
I thought I heard you post that earlier. Just making sure I didn’t misremember.
If anyone with proof wants to go in on a book deal with me, lemme know
Damon sucks, can’t get a hit to save his life.
you’re right jenn, no reason to dive in like that. it’s not like the throw was pulling someone off the bag
Do they teach sliding into 1st at Scranton?
I thought it was an error, but if they say hit. I’ll take it.
AG is another young player who needs to realize sliding into first is not the way to go.
He runs through the bag its a hit.
Now, we see if he learns that after one conversation with Girardi.
Last year, Melky did it 9 times and never listened to Torre. Nor was he punished by Torre for not listening.
I suspect if AG needs more than 1 talk with Girardi on this issue, he will be back in AAA.
That’s two rookie mistakes from gonzo in two days. Get it together, kid.
Mike, I’m sure someone will speak to him about it.
I’m not listening to Kay. Thanks for chimning in though.
Obviously you don’t know what I’m making reference to. And whatever it is, it doesn’t matter if I’m the one who hears it. If it is said, then it makes the difference.
Pedro, that’s a hit in any park in in baseball, including HS….green monster
That catch by Damon looked difficult.
BD we’ve seen enough books in NY already. I predict Papi will be outed before he retires, there is just too much speculation and baseball people to leave him alone. Now w/ the anonymous steroid’s hotline we might see that circle of trust broken.
That was some great D by Casey. And also by Robbie, though.
“However Big Papi is in the twilight of his career, so this could be more than just a early season funk”
Pat M,
I wish this were true but don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest this past his age.
I know many people think papi had an off year last year – but he really didn’t.
His OPS was 1.049 – ARods OPS last year was 1.067. I think Papi’s OBP was .442 last year. He didn’t hit 54 home runs like the did the year before but he had a great year last year – just in a different way than in 2006.
He had a great year with a bad knee. He is getting older but I don’t think we’ve seen his play deteriorate yet.
SJ-
Interesting that Melky wouldn’t listen to Torre after 9 times, why wouldn’t he be punished other than Kangaroo court?
Moose is sure going after them today. It’s worked out so far…
Im crossing my fingers with every pitch moose throws, but he can really locate today. He’s pitching great so far this year. I hope he continues to shut up all of his critics, because we need him to be like this. Kennedy certainly hasn’t been.
whozat,
It was a great play for someone like Casey (or Giambi) to make… but it looked like a fairly routine play for an avg defensive 1b… I could be wrong.
I’m sure it’s been said before, but somewhere, I should be able to watch this game without the announcers, is it just me or is Fox very pro-Red Sox?
Anyone who watched the Joba special notice the one person we didn’t meet was Joba’s baby’s mother? From an article I read they seem to be very tight. I was surprised.
So the Yanks didn’t want to sign Sean Casey because he has facial hair? Could’ve been a good pickup and takes away from the Sox.
through 3. Moose looks pretty decent today. He has to go 6 and keep the pitch count down. That is what is good about Boston not hitting right now, they are not working the count.
“If it gets you there faster, why don’t Olympic sprinters do it?”
Because if olympic sprinters dove they would land on hard flooring and scrape and bruise their entire body.
CB,
You’re right about Ortiz, but he will, at some point, start to slow down. It’s possible, like Manny, that his best years are behind him.
It’s the optimism in me speaking, but I hope there’s at least a little merit in it.
That was a fantastic play by Casey. He is a really terrific defensive first baseman.
Big Papi will be fine, he’s a monster offensive machine, once the weather starts warming up & he really get his timing down just like A Rod, they will be back in full force.
FOX is never a pleasant watch as far as I’m concerned.
“It was a great play for someone like Casey (or Giambi) to make… but it looked like a fairly routine play for an avg defensive 1b… I could be wrong.”
I dunno…it was a pretty good shot, right on the line.
anybody seen anti-mussina today?
he seems to be…… missing
I sure hate when Melky takes those crazy hacks at pitches way out of the strike zone.
Buddy,
My opinion. After 12 years, Torre just didn’t have the fight in him to come down on players anymore.
The Torre lovers will disagree with that statement.
However, I saw too many things the last few years that, from 1996-2004, would have brought Torre’s wrath that went unpunished with the team.
I don’t even blame Torre, really.
Its a tough job and, after 12 years, I don’t care what anybody says, you burn out in the gig.
We have already seen Girardi handle some things differently than Torre in that regard.
If he lasts 12 years, I suspect he will encounter the same type of burnout.
It comes with the gig.
“So the Yanks didn’t want to sign Sean Casey because he has facial hair? ”
No, because he’s a singles hitter and plays only first base.
Boston Dave-
What makes you think Manny’s best years are behind him?
trisha,
I believe it was an error, he fielded it cleanly but dropped the ball after the transfer.
I meant that it was good for Robi, because it counts as a hit. Jeter had a couple of those lucky “hits” to help him when he was slumping.
Funny, how the official scorer was generous to Wang, but not Beckett.
Diving definitely slows you down vs. running through the bag. There is absolutely no reason to dive into first as there is no tagging the runner coming in to first.
Everyone on both teams is swinging early. Not sure what the deal there is.
All I’m stating is that he’s on the downward slide…They’ll be more slumps during this season than before…..He’s still very dangerous, and he’ll deliver big hits, but he’ll never garnish another big contract after this one’s over….
You want to hear a real a-hole, or at least someone who is a combination Sux homer-dope, you have to listen to one of the radio play guys, I think his name is Trupiano. First of all he has a hideous sounding voice.
I was coming home and listened to the first inning in the car. This is what I heard. (Now you were watching it so if it was accurate, then tell me).
I don’t know who hit the ball, maybe Ellsbury or the dwarf who hits after him – “Standing there like a statue at first base. Well he tried to make a dive. But he should have had that ball. Any other first baseman would have had that ball.”
I’ve seen Giambi play first. The last thing the guy does is stands there like a statue.
Well, we don’t know how close to first robbie was when pedroia tried to make the throw. If they think a normal throw is still bang-bang, then they can call it a hit and that’s reasonable
Buddy,
well, I am trying to be optimistic and could certainly be wrong about it. Last season could have just been a down year. I would be unpleasantly surprised if he returns to .320+ 40HR 130RBI seasons.
I wish our players would be a little more patient. That swing by A-Rod was ridiculous.
SJ-
Yeah, that makes sense about Torre. I wonder how many times his teammates talked to Melky about it too. I guess its also just part of being a young player.
Oh I gotya Mel.
I was thinking about the “perfect game” chatter superstition.
That’s why I wanted it to be a hit!
“I’ve seen Giambi play first. The last thing the guy does is stands there like a statue.”
Yeah, I’d never say that Jason doesn’t try out there.
“Bobby Valentine once made a great point about diving into first: If it gets you there faster, why don’t Olympic sprinters do it?”
I thought we covered this one last year, because they don’t want to die.
trisha Maybe she just didn’t want to be on tv?
Buddy,
I’m also not suggesting that Manny won’t be a very effective hitter for the forseeable future. I just don’t know if he’ll continue putting up HOF #s. Again, just my unqualified opinion
alright, im going to clean the house.
-the goat
That was bound to happen, im just glad nobody was on base.
I knew that was going to happen. Just was a matter of time.
Boston Dave-
Your point is well taken, he only had 483 AB’s last year, but he has had fewer AB’s in the past & put up some really great numbers.
He just hit a bomb as I am typing, damn!
Stupid Manny.
Boston Dave, you jinxed us!
dammit Moose if your throwing in THROW IN !!
Youk looks like he has to use the br!
Every pitch Moose throws has the chance to be hit that hard.
I called it…
CaptainsCorner
April 12th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Any bets on who hits a homerun off Mussina first..Ortiz or Manny? I say Manny in his 2nd at bat.
sliding into first doesn’t bother me except when it’s a star player when injury is a problem. in gonzalez’s defense, even if it has been proven players get there faster by running through the bag, subjectively umpires can get caught up in the effort by the player and rule it a hit. if it is a mistake by the player it’s an error of enthusiasm and playing hard. it’s kind of hard to punish a player for that.
Minimal damage. Giving up one run in four innings isn’t so bad against the Sox. Now the offense has to help Moose out a little bit. No more 1-2-3 out nonsense.
Did anyone else notice that Ortiz looks a little smaller on the shoulders? Needs to double up on the b-12.
I don’t care about a solo HR.
After 3 starts, if Moose pitches like he has throughout the year, he’s going to win a lot of games for the Yankees this year.
He’s throwing the ball MUCH better than last year.
This team is going to hit eventually and he will be the benficiary of early runs. That makes solo HR’s less critical.
I have been really impressed with the way he is pitching so far this year.
Hopefully, he keeps it up.
Mussina has been good. Unfortunately, now Beckett returns the favor with a complete game shutout.
Mussina’s slow curve ball is the key to his effectiveness now.
That one to Manny just hung and it got crushed. But prior to that he’s used it very effectively.
That slow curve looks like it’s shaping up as the key pitch for him. It’s not as sharp and hard as he used to throw his knuckle curve but it has a lot of arc to it and he’s using as a change of pace pitch as well.
Bases empty solo shot to Manny – that’s fine. That’s why it was important for Moose to get the first two guys coming up before Manny out. Handled Papi ok again.
It’s not pretty but Moose is getting the job done so far.
Jenn, I thought of that also. That would make her life extremely public and maybe that’s the last thing she wants.
Randy – it should bother you. When a players slides, they are decreasing their chance of beating it out for a hit. They are shaving precious seconds off of their home to first time.
Youk looks like an animal with that facial hair..just gross. Do they not have any barber shops in Boston??!! is that the problem??
Scooter,
exactly. The Yanks need to make Beckett work a little here and get the run back. Moose has done his job thus far.
And with someone like Moose, each game where he has good stuff causes him to feel better about being out there. So if he keeps it up this will be awesome.
Okay Captain put himself on the line about someone going yard. I thought Posada might do it against Beckett. I don’t have an inning in mind.
Credit to Giambi – he’s hitting it on the screws.
On the track in front of the bullpen wall? Um he was still on the grass when he caught that! Sterling drives me NUTS!!
What is Beckett’s pitch count guys?
A-Rod will hit one out today, but it will be a solo shot when we’re winning or losing by 3.
Jason had good wood there.
What’s the deal with rain? If it’s called before 5 innings they reschedule a new game and if they go five it’s a suspended game to be resumed later?
The Kansas City broadcasters were talking as if they weren’t aware of the new rules. Or did it change?
It’s really more fair to suspend games because not not everyone plays in domes or fair weather cities.
It’s going to be tough if Beckett gets that outer edge of the zone (moreso on strike 2 than 3)
YOu would think Sterling wants to make out with Beckett after listening to his dumbass
I am glad that 2 feet off the plate is now considered a strike…pathetic..
Unfortunately Beckett is looking good
47 pitches for Beckett.
Alvin, if the box score is up to date, it looks like 47 pitches.
Giambi is beginning to find it.
Much better swings the past few days.
April 12 folks. Long way to go.
I am not worried about the offense.
I am positively giddy about the pitching.
Its MUCH better than last year.
Buckett doesn;t need that pitch off the plate
what is he at like 45 pitches now
Beckett is going to go CG at this rate
can someone tell Melky to take a damn pitch…
Moose is getting squeezed. tell the ump even if the pitch is 70 MPH if it is over the plate it is a strike.
Moose looks good again…
Did anyone else read this!
BEANTOWN BOZO PELTS YANK PEN
By GEORGE A. KING III
Story Bottom
April 12, 2008 — BOSTON – Joba Chamberlain and a few people seated near the Yankees’ bullpen thought an unruly Red Sox fan was throwing ice cubes at the reliever while he warmed up in the latter innings of last night’s 4-1 Bomber win.
Mike Harkey, the Yankees’ bullpen coach, said the items being sent Chamberlain’s way were pumpkin seeds.
Whatever the objects were, they caught Chamberlain’s attention.
“They came by me on the right side but they didn’t hit me,” Chamberlain said.
Said fellow reliever La Troy Hawkins of the Red Sox fans: “They were just telling him they love him.”
Maybe the young Yankee SS seea Beckett approaching 1B, and giving away at least 35 lbs. doesn’t want a collision…After all, he’s playing in the bigs now, last thing he or the club needs is for him to get hurt…..Beckett’s on a mission to go full bore for seven…
Minus to having DirecTV satellite issues this afternoon: missing everything that happened in the game un until Manny’s home run.
Plus: being too busy on the phone to keep up with/participate in John’s pop psychology theories about why Joba should stay in the bullpen.
Meanwhile, this is an outing I’ll take from the Moose every time.
Moose is pitching really well.
Damn this game is going quick.
How about a run here that would be great
56 pitches for the moose!
big papi’s slump-
like your name, but we’re talking hundreds of a second here. there’s not an electronic tape that the runner runs through. there’s an umpire who’s subjectively looking down who sees a runner often in a cloud of dust go flying through the bag on a dive. sometimes they see the runner safe because that’s who they are looking at. how does an umpire see a ball and a runner at the same time? on some plays it’s not so easy. that said i wouldn’t want to see anyone but a scrappy player doing it because they are used to it and other players not used to it could get hurt. if giambi tried it, body parts would probably be coming off. it wouldn’t be a pretty sight.
in general , my personal opinion is i’d rather have players who try hard than players who never leave their feet.
A 1 run lead seems to much for this offense.
Jennifer,
I love it! Boston fans paying back Joba for throwing over Yuck’s head.
LaTroy is a great teammate.
we have sunflower seeds in Yankees Stadium Jenn.
as far as i can remember, mike mussina has always been a victim of low run support.
Alvin: Beckett’s at 47 pitches.
Hmm. If Moose can hold one more inning and we go into the sixth inning down 1-0, who does Girardi bring in?
Fran, well the part about Moosey having a wonderful outing is happening so far.
We gotta get Beckett this inning!
How can’t you be better than Beckett is today? HUH Sterling? Stop smoking crack.
Then again Moose has a low pitch count too. I love our staff and bullpen this year!
Josh “The Scum” Buckett
Beckett is dealing today..ugh
Hope we can get something going
So no hit is really gone.
Damn Molina, you couln’t make it a double?
It’s good of the Boston Socks to retire Mo’s number 42 in advance of his retirement.
Alvin, Mike has a very low pitch count. Maybe you have someone ready but you don’t pull him yet.
Yes, jenn, it is!
Molina needs to stay starting!! Posada dh.
I don’t think Torre tries a hit and run with AG and Molina.
Even though it didn’t work, I love the try!
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04.....ws005a.jpg
NICE HIT by the attorney general!!
nice AB GONZO !
Gonzalez again! Love this kid!
Molina running makes me laugh.
lol. A-rod would’ve scored on that play.
YES INDEED!
Impressive eye at the plate by the AG. Nice to see him work the count.
That’s Girardi trusts Gonzalez to put the ball in play on the hit and run twice with Molina on base and facing Becket speaks volumes for what Girardi thinks of the rookie as a hitter.
Girardi must be impressed by what he’s seen and Gonzalez’s bat control. Gonzalez swings through that pitch and Molina is out by a mile at second.
nice bunt Johnny !
Awesome small ball.
Meant to type something else with that link. I can’t believe the picture is real. What is with all the other garbage?
Get something here Yanks. Come on!
Small ball again. Let’s convert now fellas!
Keep AG up and trade Betimet.
I wonder if they would try to keep Alberto up here? He has looked very good so far.
Nick in SF-
I have Direct TV in SF, the picture is crystal clear, what issues are you having?
Beckett tiring?
SJ, there was a time that Torre managed a game that way …It was during their years of domination…..Before the 3 run homerun mentality…
Wow. We’re finally getting some calls.
MELKYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Melky!!!
Got the job done!! Melk man.
Tie game
Tie game. Clean slate!
Productive out, I’ll take it.
Nice small ball there.
Impressive at bat by Melky. Yet another quality at bat and great situational hitting. He drove that ball very well.
Not to be greedy but I really would like more runs this inning.
GONZO !!!
Alberto!!!
wold pitch! We’re winning, awesome! Get Joba up!
2-1!! Alberto!! We need to find a place for you!!
2-1 Yanks. Great base running by Gonzales!
Now, that’s GREAT baserunning instincts by AG. Great to see!
Good situational awareness by the A.G.
Now I am happy.. finally some good hitting.
And what is this, Yankee runners tagging up and MORE than 1 advancing… thought I was watching the Angels for a second.
Never would have happened under Torre..
Like this Gonzales “skillz”
Small ball creates two runs. Got to love it.
And this kid was a throw-in in the RJ trade….
mel-
You think Golden State is toast?
My lips to God’s ears!
Check it out fran. So far so good…
Buddy, it’s working fine now, but it was out in my building for a while. There are suspicions that the cable guy who visited the building screwed it up.
Although now I suspect that there’s something wrong with the signal again, because the live feed seemed to show Jose Molina going from third to home on that sac fly in super slo-mo. What? That was normal speed?!?!??!
Memo to Girardi. Let Gonzalez slide head first to any base he wants.
AG is making a case to stay. Betemit is baggage.
Way to go Melky and AG.
He’s throwing a lot of balls…. is he getting tired?
that’s what i’m talking about!
the same runner who instinctively dives into first takes off for home and dives in there.
Now that was a nice slide
Moose gets through the bottom of the sixth against ‘em and it becomes Joba time.
AG AG AG AG AG AG
AG AG AG AG AG AG
AG AG AG AG AG AG
AG AG AG AG AG AG
buy-out Betemit’s contract.
Gonzales needs to remain with this team. And call-up, Shelley.
Pat M,
Completely agree.
Sometimes, small ball is needed.
Especially when you are on the road facing the guy who may be the best starter in the game.
Again, AG > Betemit
How do you like that? You know, until today I’ve always detested America’s former Attorney General.
Is this guy Jeter’s replacement some day in the future? I never thought so before.
Wally Pipp, baby!!!
Was Gonzo a throw in?
Is it me, or did Buck sound depressed when he said the Yankees tied the score and took the lead?
They should re-appoint the AG. Sliding head first was the difference this time.
That run right there made the whole RJ deal worth it.
Ollie & the Viz was just gravy.
Good job by Bobby to help wear down Beckett.
Absolutely fantastic baseball. What great heads up baseball by Gonzalez.
Not just scoring but tagging up on that sac fly by Melky. Just great.
Melky’s out is even more productive now. Because Melky drove the ball and forced Ellsbury to make a tough play that allowed Gonzalez to tag up and get to third.
Melky hits a softer fly ball and Gonzalez can’t tag.
The Yankee’s chief advantage this year over the sox is their overall organizational depth.
Look at what Gonzalez is doing right now. The yankee depth is paying off big dividends already.
I think the only reason Francona brought in the infield this inning with a man on third was because of Joba and the threat he poses to shorten the game.
YA NOW JOBA AND MO LETS GO!!!
leave Betemit alone , he’s not as bad as you think, in the mean time I love Gonzo right now
CaptainsCorner, I called Yankee scoring in the 6th. And it’s still not too late for Po to go yard!
AGGG!!! I love this kid!
I love our chances now in tight-late ball games with Bruney, Joba and Mo.
It’s nice to actually have good bench players this year. Jose and AG both were acquired by Cashman via trade. Those moves are paying big dividends this week.
well that was a good inning
Be good Moose
BABY BOMBERS !!
Derek Who??
Is it just me or are these games so much more satisfying to watch than the three-run-home-run game?
If Moose can squeeze out one more scoreless inning, that might be all the scoring for Boston today.
I don’t see how anyone can watch the first 2 games of the season and not notice how the Yankees are a clearly superior team that the Sux. Pitching, defense, timely hitting, base running.
Yeah great small ball that inning. If Mussina can go one more strong then you feel pretty good about the Yankees chances. Although in Mo’s last few appearances against the Red Sox, it certainly hasn’t been easy.
Buddy,
No, they’re not toast. Too bad you don’t play the Lakers anymore.
Denver’s just so hungry. They actually played D on you guys.
I’ve given up on watching the rankings for matchups. There’s like 81 permutations if you look at the 9 teams.
Just praying for a NO loss and the Lakers win out. But that might not be a good thing, meeting up with GS or Denver.
Did you ever think you’d see someone typing they like their chances with Bruney?
i thought the most important part of top of the 6th was the bunt by damon. without that, they may not score any runs there.
trisha,
I wanna hire Deion Sanders to dump some more champagne on McCarver and Buck in the booth. They are both awful. It’s amazing how rare a good broadcaster is these days. I suppose they may be more popular among the casual viewer (like John Madden apparently was) but it’s rough for any knowledgeable fan to listen to.
Trisha – looking good so far. Hope you are right again today.
I love my Jetes, but does he make that play?
That pitch to Julio Lugo was a ball.
Pretty play by AG.
Bruney’s been excellent this season. Easily the 3rd best reliever in that pen. Until he gets on a bad streak, you ride that arm for the 6-7th innings.
mel Lugo beats him by a step on that one
What is with this ump!? Two pitches he’s missed, in this inning.
I hope Gonzo gets a lot of work in at 2B and some at 3B when he gets sent down to Scranton. If he can prove he can be a true utility IF and not just play SS, he could be back on the roster.
When you trade for prospects it usually takes several years to asses the deal.
How good does that Randy Johnson deal look right now? Ohlendorf contributing to the pen.
The AG looking good at bot the plate, field and on the bases.
Even Stephen Jackson looks like he may have turned a corner down in the minors. He’s pitching very, very well down there.
And they saved $14 million and a lot of RJ related unhappiness.
oh crap
I know iv said this before but doesnt Elsbury resemble Beltron?
Moose getting squeezed this inning and hit hurt him.
Threw 3 strikes to Ellsbury and got one call. Awful.
Dave Rigetti ????
UGH!! Should have been 2 outs!!
well that turned on us quickly huh
warm up the pen Joe, warm it up
As much as I miss having the Captain in the lineup I haven’t broken into cold GIDP sweats in a while.
Did Joe Buck just call CM Wang the ace of the Yanks’ staff? Is he allowed to do that without reading last night’s entire post-game thread on the subject? I think not.
Meanwhile, Matt Cain’s no-hit bid is not being televised here in the SF Bay Area, of course. But it is on the radio, natch.
CB,
If Humberto Sanchez pans out, we may be having the same discussion about the depth of the Yankees (as a result of their 180 in philosophy) in a few months or next season.
I love imagining the avg non-Yankee fan next season saying “who? who? who?” as the new faces show up in town and make an impact for the Yanks.
Hmm. Well Ortiz can’t GIDP this time, unfortunately.
A few thoughts…
I hate Man Ram and his antics.
Great stop-catch by Cano.
Mussina is having another relativly positive outting.
I love this Blog.
Even anti-Mussina!
Please Moosey…
Good lord Moose was brave there.
If Papi were to get tossed for complaining about that last strike, the new hitter would inherit his 0-2 count, right?
Who exactly are our announcers broadcasting for? Who cares about how Ortiz feels?
The home plate umpire is killing both teams…terribly inconsistent.
Careful Moose
HUGE K. SIT DOWN SUGAR LIPS.
Big Papi = Dave Kingman
Walk Manny? This is tough. Manny hit a hr off him earlier, but Manny still isn’t right.
Great framing by Molina, and good execution by Moose.
And I just teared up mightily.
Unbelievable! It’s hard to imagine that we’re watching Ortiz up there at the plate.
Hmmn, I might have brought Bruney in to pitch to Ramirez.
most I’m praying for is a pop up out
Exactly the reason why.
Joba time now please
Why pitch to Manny? Thats retarded.
I guess they picked wrong.
How do you let manny ramirez beat you?
Why pitch to the guy who can beat you…bad nove Joe…
I think I would’ve walked Manny right there with first base open.
uch, not to make the easy 2nd guess, but I wouldn’t have pitched to Manny there.
damn …
Should have walked Manny. He’s a great breaking ball hitter.
Damn, one hitter away from getting out it.
The Ellsbury AB changed the game. Call strikes in that AB, he’s out of it.
All told, still a solid start for Moose. Something to build on.
AG is playing amazing but don’t call for him to stay just yet. If he isn’t playing everyday, send him back down. No need hindering his progress to sit on the bench when Jeter returns.
Well that sucks
how do you not walk manny!
Thats the stubborness of Mussina coming out!!!Why would you not walk him!!!
Joba won’t come in during the sixth inning. It will be Bruney.
that was so dumb that we pitched to manny what the hell?
I think it’s safe to say that was Girardi’s first mistake. Who cares if Youk is up next, you’d rather pitch to him any day than Manny. Bad move there.
I don’t get that right there. Why not bring in Bruney right then or walk Manny and pitch to Youkilis. Bad decision all around to me.
Outstanding outing except for two pitches – both to Manny.
8 out of 10 fans polled would have walked lazy Manny there.
I would like to see one time our pitchers hold the lead just for one inning after we take the lead….it would be nice.
I thought he’d get out of it. He should have pitched Manny inside or walked him.
God damnit. How do they pitch to manny in that situation.
Matt Cain has a no hitter thru 6 & just hit a bomb.
Why?????? 1st base is open and you pitch to Manny!!!
That’s one you can second guess, WTF would you let him pitch to Manny there? Stupid decision. Nobody can defend that decision. You don’t go out there and say pitch him carefully, you pitch 4 wide ones with the catcher standing 10 feet outside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, that seemed like a no-brainer. Walk him.
“The Ellsbury AB changed the game. Call strikes in that AB, he’s out of it.”
I thought Moose got squeezed as well against Ellsbury. Especially considering some of the pitches Beckett got in the at bat where he struck out Cano.
Joe let Mike decide. Mike has an ego like everyone else. Walking him would be like saying he didnt think he could get him out. I’m happy with 3runs in 5 2/3 innings from moose any time, especially with the bullpen we have had lately. Beckett is off and he’s ripe for a home run.
Pitching to Manny right there is by far the stupidest decision they’ve made all season.
Okay. It’s one run. So we know what needs to happen now.
Nice way too mess up a good day. Moose definitely should of walked him, I definitely thought that they were going to. As of late Manny has hit him extremely well the correct move right there was to walk him. You cant let him beat you twice, terrible decision and an even worse pitch.
Youklis is a very tough out.
Facing him with the bases loaded is not an easy prospect easy – especially with his eye. Youklis draws a lot of walks.
Not an easy call either way.
Clearly Girardi went out there an left the decision up to Mussina.
Moose threw a good game. Can’t ask him for any more than that against the sox in Fenway.
C’mon Girardi, dont let Manny beat you when 1st base is open….specially when Brunney is ready to go. With that said, not a bad effort by Moose.
Is Girardi dumb? Really, is he??? Why in god’s name would you leave Mussina in to pitch to the most dangerous hitter on planet Earth with runners on 2nd and 3rd?? Why not bring in Bruney, or AT LEAST walk Manny?
Ramirez should have been passed to allow time for Bruney to finish his warmups. One hitter too long.
one of the dumbest pitching decisions ever.
I wouldn’t have taken him out.
I would have walked Manny though.
Can’t let Manny beat you. If somebody else does, you tip your cap.
Can’t let Manny be the guy in that situation though.
terrible pitch to Manny. right down the middle terrible terrible pitch..
WTF!!!!! 2 outs a base open a he throws Manny a first pitch fast ball. WHAT A JOKE!!!! That type of crap makes my head hurt its so stupid just walk the guy!!!
SJ, You have to walk a guy who’s going to the HOF as an RBI machine…No 2nd guessing there….
Pujols just got a double to lead off the 7th to break up the no-hit bid by Cain.
Geeze only one ER.
IMO, that one is on Joe. I said to my daughter that they’ll walk Manny. No reason for Joe to go out and talk to Moose. Put Ramirez on. Manny owns Moose and always has.
- KMT
Are you kidding Girardi? You have to take the ball from Moose in that spot. Terrible managing.
Thats a horrible, inexcusable, disgraceful move by the Yanks not walking Manny there. You have to take your chances with Youkoulis. Its indefensible not to walk him there especially sfter how far he hit that one in the 4th and what Manny always does to the Yankees. I just let every obscenity fly from my mouth.
Fran, you don’t pitch him inside, you don’t pitch to him PERIOD!!!!!!!!!! You scratch and claw for 2 runs, take the lead, have 1 more out to go until Joba and Mo, and you let Mussina and his 84 mph fastball face Manny who already to him deep? NOT EVEN CLOSE
proabably an early yank for mussina only at 71 pitches and he seemed to be throwing well, does anyone else think that he and the actor that plays jack on lost look really similar?
Bruney was a bad choice, though. Need to go with Ohlendorf there. Bruney misses his spots too much and these hitters arent going to swing and miss.
Oh c’mon. 0-2 count and you left that over the plate.
Despite the hit to Ramirez it was another good outing by Mussina. That’s a real positive.
And Youklis got a hit too so you never know – even if they walked Manny.
instead of 2-1 its now 4-2 because people have no clue
Girardi needs to make the decision there, not Moose. You’re a better manager than that, Joe.
Most dangerous hitter on planet earth? Um overstating a bit?
No, its not one of the dumbest pitching decisions ever.
Unless, this is the first baseball game you ever watched.
I would have walked Manny but, there are two sides to the issue.
As Youkilis just showed.
0 – 2 to Youkilis right down the damn middle.
TERRIBLE
That is like saying should I walk Babe Ruth with Josh Phelps on deck? Atleast Moose knows that they lost the game with 2 terrible pitches to Manny. Yanks will never get anymore runs off of Beckett he will finish the game. Good time for Bruney to show he is average.
Lets get two
Alright. That sucked. Wake up bats and get some runs
Bad decision by Girardi leaving Moose there against Manny. Might have cost the game.
Torre would have walked Manny
That’s why it wasn’t just an open and shut case on whether to pitch to manny.
Youklis is a very good pitcher.
At this point Moose counts on throwing a lot of breaking stuff and working the corners. Having him pitch with the bases loaded is a handicap. Clearly moose didn’t want to do that.
Bruney has been very good this year so far but doesn’t have the greatest control. He gave up the hit to Youklis – he easily could have given up the hit to Manny.
That’s not an easy spot – regardless of the decision.
THAT is why it’s so hard to like Moose. Stubborn, stubborn, stuborn. He should know that every pitch has to be perfect when you throw as slow as he does.
He is an albatross around the Yankees neck at this point. Terible pitch, terrible!
shut up stop whinning it happened besides i think joe ask moose if he wanna to pitch to manny and moose said yes
Funny comparing Youk to Josh Phelps. Just laughable.
And immediately this board turns negative. It was not an obvious call…get off of the ledge.
I would have pitched to Manny just not thrown a first pitch fastball right down the middle.
Manny knew because he hit the curve for a HR he was getting a fastball.
2 pitchs may lose the game, mainly because they still are not hitting.
SJ44 how capable is the attorney general Gonzalez? Do you keep him up as a utility guy or send him down so he can play everyday?
Fran I agree with you. It was an outstanding outing.
They rolled the dice there. Look while my head was saying walk Manny, obviously Moose felt he had enough left in the tank to get him.
Here’s how I have to look at those moves. When they succeed the manager looks brillint, when they don’t the manager looks like an idiot.
I also would have walked Manny and tried for that one out. It couldn’t be any worse unless Youkilis hits a home run or a triple. It was a chance worth taking. Mussina should still be in as well. But oh well.
The game changed when the ump couldn’t figure out a strike from a ball.
I’ll wait until the game ends to make a judgement.
Does Jeter get Willy Pipped?
This is girardi’s fault.
YOU WALK Manny!
And you dont throw and 0 – 2 fastball right down the middle!
Beckett doesn’t look like he has a lot left in his tank. Let’s make this work.
I totally disagree SJ44. There is no two sides to this issue. You have to walk Manny in that situation no question about it. Unless he is injured or horribly slumping and Youklis is incredibly hot. If you have the chance around it, you never let the other team’s best player beat you.
He better send A-Rod during this at bat. He needs to steal some bases. I dont want another freaking double play.
That sucks. Moose pitched a good game and didn’t deserve that. It’s game 12 so I will not start the second guessing of Joe. Besides, Youklis would have drove in at least 2 anyway.
CB yea your right Youklis is a very good pitcher. lol
Alright, the good news is that Moose is pitching well.
But man, I’d love to see Beckett lose. After what he said about Joba last year, I hate that punk.
Wow the ump doesn’t know what a strike is! The first pitch to Jason was a ball!!
Clearly the majority of these people on this blog have better credentials to manage the Yankees since Joe’s a moron. Seriously, don’t be so negative.
While I personally think the (former) Attorney General can probably make for an adequate utility fielder right now, I would rather have him work on his hitting down in AAA for at least another half a season to see if he can improve his bat–because that’s all that is stopping him from being an average, full-time shortstop.
I’d rather not sacrifice the possibility of AG becoming an average shortstop (however unlikely that might be) just to make the bench a little stronger this year.
I agree you have to walk Manny, but I also agree with SJ that it’s not as obvious as you guys are making it out to be. Mussina is a touch-and-feel pitcher who paints corners. Youkilis is a lot like Abreu and takes tons of walks.
Getting hit by Manny is bad, but walking in the tying run is horrid too.
In other news, DAMNIT GIAMBI!
Rudy -
Amen.
Moose did everything that the team could expect from him. He is their #5 starter.
4 runs over 6 innings against the sox at Fenway is a very good start, especially from one of your back end starters.
Moose threw a very good game and got beat by one of the best hitters in the game. There wasn’t any kind of easy or clearly right decision on whether to walk him.
Moose did a great job getting Ortiz out. Manny beat him. He threw a good game.
They need the offense to do its part now.
It is unbeleivable, this Girardi bashing…..
You expect Yankees to go undefeated from now on…..
I am sure they will ask Girardi about it on the post game and we’ll hear what he says
Guys:
Please do not comment using curse words. Or curse words with dashes. Or purposely mispelled curse words or whatever. This blog is part of my newspaper and we don’t allow language like that. Beyond that, we have kids, etc. reading here.
If you’re not smart enough to express yourself without cursing, ask somebody for help. Or don’t post.
Thanks.
Why the %$#@ did they not send A-Rod? IF they did, it would be man on third with 1 out. Sigh. We have NO baserunning ability as Girardi sees it.
thanks giambi…
what did beckett say about joba?
I hate him to begin with
Wow – they really improved the Gameday – it’s so realistic , the Giambi picture in my Gameday is actually sweating…
Giambi good work
Giambi gets a change right down the middle does nothing with it. This offense is really dead.
That fourth pitch to Giambi should have been on a 3-0 count.
@ Jennifer: you can’t name a hitter who is more dangerous then manny. if you’re a yankee fan, I think you would agree that he is the most dangerous hitter in baseball. there is nobody i fear more at the plate in a scoring situation then manny.
the guy doesn’t even care what the count is. he just goes up there and swings as if every pitch is the same. its remarkable.
no matter what you have to pitch to youkolis in that position. plus its easier to get an out with a force at every base. there is no arguing that manny rameriez should have been walked there, no question.
Ah-ah! Gotta walk Manny! Girardi is going to hear about this!
“He is an albatross around the Yankees neck at this point. Terible pitch, terrible!”
Okay, now you’re being ridiculous. Moose has pitched very well thus far this year. If Moose can effectively pitch into the 6th inning every game he will win at least 10 games this year as well as pitching at least 160 necessary innings.
CB thanks for being the voice of reason. Yeah he probably should have walked him. But if Mike got Manny out, everyone would be saying great gutty call. He got beat, plan and simple.
Pete, think about registration!!!
I know you are worried about losing visitors to the site…but there are options available to you can have registration to let people post, but still keep it open for everyone to view information.
What did Beckett say about Joba?
ROBI’S BACK
Nice Robbie!!!
I don’t know folks, seems to me killing Moose today is a little over the top. The guy pitched well today.
He is what he is at this point in his career. A #4 starter.
30 starts like today from him, and a couple of calls go his way, and he pitches above the league average for #4 starters.
At some point, this team is going to hit.
As I type this, its now 4-3. Game FAR from over.
Nice job Ronnie!! You also helped my fantasy team!
There you go, Robby.
Thats my boy cano, finally going the other way!!!
There’s one
I think that overall the Yankee pitching has been pretty good this season. Moose has certainly been doing a good job. Once the hitters catch up the Yanks should be in great shape.
It ain’t over, yet!!
Hey ! …. it’s Manny DelGagne coming in fron the pen.
Look, I don’t give a rat’s backside if he should have pitched to Manny or he shouldn’t have pitched to Manny.
He pitched a tremendous game today. He is going to win more than lose pitching the way he did today. Stop whining!
Robbie coming around?
2-3, 1B, 2B, RBI
Mike pitched a very good game today! If you were told every time out Mike would pitch into the 6th and give up 2-4 runs You’d take it in a heart beat!
Well hello Robbie!
I live 5 miles or so from Fenway and there is thunder outside… might start raining soon.
I don’t know the weather report but the Yanks need to strike while the iron is hot.
Even more important than the run is the fact that Becket is finally out of the game. Considering he ended the 5th inning with 45 pitches, getting him out at this time is pretty good.
That inning could of been alot better if it wasn’t for that blob at 1st base
it’s pouring out now
Cano has a beautiful swing. Great piece of hitting going the other way there.
Fenway should be a place where Cano is a force. With his swing he should be able to tatoo that wall just like he did there.
No way Posada scores from first base on that double against the monster (manny really plays that wall well).
The yanks scored two of their runs on past balls/ wild pitches.
Nice, Robby! Now if HE can bust out of his slump, we’re really talking.
It’s really easy to second-guess pitching to Manny in the last inning. I think Girardi should have walked him. But let’s be sober about it, we have no idea whatsoever what would have happened with the bases loaded and Youk at the plate.
The Yankees stole a lot of bases last year, but in all the games I’ve watched, we havent stole a single base.
Why?
Take a look at this. Your Yankees did this last night. Let’s be grateful and keep the faith!
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp
Mussina didn’t pitch well, SJ44. He pitched exceptionally well.
If you want to fault anyone for Manny’s last hit, blame Girardi for leaving him in. Manny was on Mussina all day.
If Mussina pitches as well as he did the last two games all year, he’ll win 15 games and have an ERA under 4.00. Not a likely prospect but still that doesn’t detract from his last two performances.
I think we’re doing better than we did last April.
This will be an extremely boring blog if each time a decision is made and does not go our way the bashing begins. There is no way to know what would have happened. Let the season progress and we’ll see how we feel come All Star break. Now’s our chance for the offense to get going and make sure Moose doesn’t get an undeserved loss.
I’ll give Girardi a little break. He’s only had 1 year of managerial experience. You don’t learn everything about managing in 1 year. He’ll learn.
15 games calm down, I’d be happy w/ 12 infact that’s the number I predict for him.
I can’t understand the constant criticism of Mussina that passes for reasonable commentary on this site.
The guy stunk last year, granted, but this year he’s been good to very good thus far. Moose is a great resources between to hard throwers like Wang and Hughes, keeps the lineups off-balance.
I really hope the rain doesn’t head east. It is POURING where I am.
Beckett is the defending champ’s ace (I almost choke on typing that), while Moose is our #3/4 pitcher, still this has been a close game. I think that’s reason for optimism.
Few notes:
- I’m not throwing Girardi under the bus for this. Looked like he talked it over with Mussina. People who say they “definitely” should have walked him are benefiting from hindsight. I think I would have preferred walking him, but Youkilis is no easy out either, and with the bases loaded…
- Neither am I throwing Moose under the bus. This is a pretty ok start, if he can give us this every time out, he’ll rack up 10-15 wins.
- I like the AG.
i have to say i don’t really like mussina’s style of pitching against this red sox team, so i’m taking mussina out that inning with the first hit he gives up. hitters are seeing him for the third time. i guess it would have been bruney, but this situation is still a bit of a weakness for the yankees.
i would have never ever had mussina pitch to manny in that situation. girardi must have been playing a hunch. he’s done well with them so far so i’m not going to second guess him . just write it off as manger’s hunch.
I’m with you JR Yankees. They have the book on all the players in the dugout. There was a reason that Moose/Girardi were willing to chance Manny with two bases rather than Pukalisp with the bases loaded. We don’t know how it would have turned out.
Moose was sensational today. Look at all the first pitch strikes he got.
Let’s hope the Yanks offense does something in the next two innings. If they don’t, it has been a well played game with lots of good things to take out of it.
I’m not a big Moose fan, but he had a pretty darn good game today. He gets no complaints from me.
Hopefully the bottom of the 7th is not too bad and we score in the 8th
“I think that overall the Yankee pitching has been pretty good this season.”
Going into this game the yankees had a 3.43 team ERA. That is outstanding. Compare that to where they were at this time last year.
The pitching has been great this year.
“I think that overall the Yankee pitching has been pretty good this season.”
Going into this game the yankees had a 3.43 team ERA. That is outstanding. Compare that to where they were at this time last year.
The pitching has been great this year.
And where is that?
Nasty line of storms going through Boston.
http://www.wunderground.com/ra.....rainsnow=0
Game will be halted for a short period of time. There is no way they’d call it right?
As the manager of the Yankees, Girardi shouldn’t really be asking Mussina if he wants to pitch to Manny in that situation… What is Mussina going to say? No, I’m scared, I want to walk him… I doubt a major league pitcher would ever feel good about himself saying that. Girardi should have taken the decision out of Mussina’s hands, if in fact it was up to Mussina. Mike Mussina would have to be insane to want to pitch to Manny after that homerun he hit. If he struck him out twice today, I can see MAYBE pitching to him. But even if Girardi was just going by the sample of the at bats in this game, it’s such a blatantly obvious decision.
Second guessing by knowledgable baseball people ( players as well ) is one great elements of the game….It’s been going on forever….Although we tend to only remember the times we were right…I’ll admit I had reservations about Moose coming in during Game 7 in the ALDS…I was dead wrong…..But I also will nevere forgive Torre for bringing the infield in, Game 7, 9TH INNING vs. Arizona with Gonzo up…..Part of the game ….No one’s a moroon though, especially a MLB Manager
Bruney has to throw strikes.
Kill,
I bet we hear after the game Girardi gave him the option, Manny or Youkilis and Moose wanted Manny.
Granted, the results didn’t work but, if that’s the case, I love the fact Moose wanted him.
He made a bad pitch. That’s baseball.
Just like Bruney’s 0-2 pitch to Youk was a mistake.
Here is the way I look at it.
Going into today, Beckett v. Moose, if you could sign up for this being a one run game into the 7th inning, how many sign up for that? I know I would.
The game is FAR from over.
I haven’t seen anything thus far this year that shakes my belief that this is going to be a VERY good team this year.
The offense will get going as they get more into the season.
jennifer with that end this close and it being so early i would think they’d wait it out if a storm came though.
It looks like it should move quickly through.
CB – I knew it was good. I did not realize that the team ERA was that good.
Did Bruney learn that slider from Joba? They almost look similar from behind.
Mussina could be a fantastic resource for the team this year if he continues to give consistent performances throughout the season.
Girardi knows what he is doing. Joe Torre didn’t always make decisions for his pitchers. We don’t know if he asked or told but it really doesn’t matter. They had their reasons and they are really head and shoulders over all of us here in baseball savvy.
Sometimes the best laid plans of mice and men go awry.
Way to blow an 0-2 count.
Come on Bruney!!
PAT, I agree with you. This doesn’t make Girardi a bad manager or an idiot or anything like that. Just put it down as a mistake. Everyone makes them, and I’m sure Girardi will make his fair share, but that’s part of the game. I think the bottom line is he’ll learn from them.
I agree, SJ44. It’s not a decision for which I really can fault Girardi.
If the Yankees lose this game it will be interesting to see how much indulgence the press grants him.
Girardi, remember, was supposed to be a great improvement over Torre in rendering decisions like those.
Meanwhile, Bruney will kill me with these walks.
You see this is why you don’t have Mussina walk Manny and bring in Bruney to pitch to Youk.
Bruney is looking like last year’s version. That’s not good.
We need to get the 8th started so that this game does not get called before its over.
“Going into today, Beckett v. Moose, if you could sign up for this being a one run game into the 7th inning, how many sign up for that? I know I would.”
Absolutely. There is no reasonable way to expect more than what’s happened. Coming in with Beckett vs. Moose Boston is the overwhelming favorite. Overwhelming favorite.
Despite those odds its 4-3 in the seventh. Would it be great to be up – of course. But you can’t reasonably be unhappy with where this game was when moose left and where it is now.
I think the thunder and lighting is in response to this whole notion of keeping Joba in the pen the entire season.
Morgan catching Kyle without equipment on? Poor guy!
Cano!! stupid stupid stupid!! You got very lucky there!!
what the heck Cano?? not funny
jesu someone say LO TENGO ! — I got it !
Bruney got lucky there.
Let’s go guys.
SJ right, it’s like they’re playing with the bank’s money as it’s a closer game than any of us really imagined…..But Mussina is smoke and mirrors, and he will not get away with that vs. Boston much more than he did today….
Yo La Tengo — my favorite indie band!
I’m so tired of watching Cano ignore Abreu when he calls for a ball.
kill.schill, so far I think Girardi has been a phenomenal improvement. I can tell you ever relief pitcher in our pen. I couldn’t always do that with Torre. I also know that they all still have arms attached to their bodies. And his reverse move with Ian, even though it didn’t work out in the end? Brilliant. Girardi typically thinks out of the box. I really like that. I think he is a brilliant manager.
Did Robbie call that? Lucky it ended well but couldn’t have easily gone horribly.
get a case of the runs boys
You know, I’ve always though Bruney would be an ideal candidate to replace Joba in the 8th, but not if he walks two people in innings.
He has great stuff. I can’t fathom why his control evaporates for no evident reason.
*could have*
As wild as Bruney was I’m not so sure we would have been better off afterall. Just a simple example of how there is no way to tell what would have happened.
On a related note…what happened to Bruney throwing strikes? He had a good spring and a great start to the regular season and just now he starts throwing garbage to three batters in a row.
And yes it’s early, but fwiw, check out the NL West.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp
*could* have
This could be shaping up for A-Rod vs. Pap part 2. The same result as last year would be unlikely but awfully nice. Even the backdrop of impending rain seems to be happening.
Trish – Torre did the same reverse bullpen thing with his starter this season prior to Girardi.
Come on! We’re hitting the ball well today and it always seems to find a Red Sox glove.
Calling it – melky HR
not a bad AB for AG but he needs to learn to go up the middle or the other way with that pitch
Bruney lost the plate there for a few hitters but I give him credit for coming back and closing the inning.
Last year when he fell behind that last hitter he would have simply reared back and tried to throw the ball as hard as possible and would have become even more wild.
He gathered himself and threw a good pitch to get an out.
Let’s go Yankees….clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!
Shelley’s brother and Rick Ankiel have both homered in the 8th in SF to tie up the game 5-5 and wipe Matt Cain from the decision.
big pap’s slump I guess I didn’t remember that. I still really like the way Girardi uses the relief though. No favorites.
this is an AB that you pay to see
Lets go Alex!
Hopefully Arod hits one out.
Okajima has nothing today. All four people he’s faced has hit the ball hard (or walked on 4).
Crunch time for Alex.
Let’s go Alex!!
Hey Big Papi’s Slump, I like your name, but shouldn’t he just be Papi while he’s batting under .100? And under .200 too.
Alex vs Paple part two.
Are the AL hitters still having a hard time figuring out Okajima Tim ( you talking head idiot )
The best hitter vs. the *best* closer. (giggle)
here we go Boston’s big guy
It’s ALLL up to the highest paid player in baseball.
Here we go Yankees! Here we Go!
Shelly Duncan is 1 for 2 with a HR and a BB in the fifth inning of today’s Scranton game!
The Yankees will beat Papplepuck today. Unless mother nature calls it.
They’re bringing in pooo-face
“But Mussina is smoke and mirrors, and he will not get away with that vs. Boston much more than he did today….”
that’s kind of my thinking on not letting boston hitters see him a third time. i think through out this year against good hitting teams, mussina needs to be thought of as a twice through the order pitcher.
by design in close games, quit while you are ahead even though it stresses the bullpen.
Papelbon almost always starts off with a fastball on the outside corner
ARod should be thinking of just getting a hit to RF to score Melky. We dont need a HR here.
tarp is on
Doesn’t John have a computer in front of him? the game won’t be delayed long. probably 20 minutes.
I’m still remembering how Alex missed that fastball from Accardo so he is dued
ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!!
Conspiracy to give Papelbon more time to warm up! Shocking.
rain delay
Marquez has pitched four innings of one-run ball thus far today.
How convenient. Now Papelbon has more time to warm up.
Right on cue! What, Papelbon needs more time to warm up??
Great. Now Alex has time to sit and think about this at bat.
TALK ABOUT HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE TO FREEZE OUT A HITTER !
Who are those people they keep showing?
How convenient…rain delay when we’ve got some momentum going and Papelbon did not warm up enough…
With Papelbon just finished warming up, does this delay affect him at all? Especially if it goes a little long?
Why does FOX keep showing that couple sitting on top of the green monster? The blonde chick and some dude with brown hair. Are they famous or something?
“It’s ALLL up to the highest paid player in baseball.”
Wrong attitude Betty. It’s all up to the guy who thinks he’s the greatest closer ever to make his pitches.
I want to say that no matter what happens, Alex is going up there trying to win the game for us. I don’t care how much money he earns, it doesn’t mean that every AB he is going to make the olympics. Jog your memories to think of times he has done it for us.
That said, here’s hoping that something good happens.
And it ain’t over til it’s over.
And – does everyone remember when we marched into fenway and took 5 straight?
For an offense that has been struggling and with one of our premier clkuth players on the bench, this team has been stepping up to the plate.
We’re off to a great start.
Please be kind, and remember to recycle.
With Gardner 2 for 2 today, he is now hitting .391 while Duncan is hitting .545…something has to give or someone might get traded.
There are just too many guys for a limited number of spots in the OF. Giambi has been all over 1B, so Duncan is even limited in his opportunities there. Throw in Ensberg and Betty…not a lot of room for him. Something has to give.
Forcing Francona to bring papelbon in the eighth is an advantage the yankees will carry into tomorrow.
Papelbon had to come in to the eighth two games ago. They are very concerned about his work load.
I have the game muted, so don’t know what they are saying about them.
Also on the radio they said 30 minute delay they will try to get it in! What 30 minutes 1 hour they should wait it out. It is a 1 run game, it isn’t like it is a 4-5 run game! Also I think this hurts Paplebon. Or I hope.
My $.02 about Bruney. He’s a coach/manager killer.
So much talent, yet he kills you.
Look at today. Forget the walks, which drive me nuts.
0-2 on Youk. Finish him, its a 3-2 game.
You just CANT lose that battle when you have his stuff and are ahead in the count.
I have no doubt this team will hit this year. NONE.
The starting pitching is MILES better than last year. As well as Beckett pitched, our ace (Wang) outpitched him in this series.
The bench is solid.
The manager is an upgrade from last year.
Their bullpen? Three reliable arms: Traber (for lefties), Joba and Mo.
One guy, Ohlendorf, who has the chance to be special.
Three guys: Bruney, Farnsworth and Hawkins who, at least thus far, are unreliable.
You can get by with Bruney if the other 2 are either replaced or get their acts together.
Three guys you can’t count on in the ‘pen? Won’t work in the AL. See the Tigers as proof this season. They are a mess. They also had to put Willis on the DL today. The Yankees are not.
Its also not a position you can buy. Its too unreliable to buy a bullpen. Its why teams that try to do it (see the Yankees the past 7 years) fail at it. You have to players players from within who can get the job done.
You could make a pretty good argument that how Hawkins, Farnsworth and Bruney, or their replacements fare, will determine the teams fate this year.
Those 3 guys, not Moose, not Giambi or Damon, are the weak underbelly of the team.
You fix that hole, and this may be the best team in baseball.
Guys, The Sux and NESN have a faggy show that tries to make love matches. They sit the couples in the green monster seats and show them throughout the game. It’s really pathetic.
Unless they are some famous couple, I have a feeling that it’s one of the lovematch couples and lucky Sux viewers will get to see their green monster date later in the season. If it is that, it doesn’t look like a love connection was made.
Alex beat Pooplebon before. If there’s anybody to beat with more vengeance it’s the Mo Rivera wannabe.
Big Slumpy
3-39 .077
“think this hurts Paplebon. Or I hope.”
opposite Jenn. it actually helps him, because now Alex is frozen out and we lose momentum w/ this delay. The only thing it does do is effect tomorrow’s game.
I’m really betting that we will DFA Wilson Betemit within the next week. We can’t have him/Giambi/Ensberg/ and eventually Duncan all tying up 1B/DH slots. Between 3rd/SS/2B we should be able to get Gonzalez enough at bats without letting him get rusty on the bench. We have Gardner tearing it up in AAA. I smell a DFA or trade pretty soon.
trisha
The way you wrote that had me in stitches!!
Alex is not frozen out. It is a plus/minus for both sides and can be argued either way.
I seem to be about 20min ahead of Fenway today (weather-wise) and its still raining but very lightly now.
This team already the best team in baseball, Sj.
Can Edwar really do it in the AL over a full season?
Brandon
I still say it hurts him!
Don’t forget he is sitting there wondering what Alex is wondering.
I guess we’ll see!! I hope I’m right!!
Gonzalez hasn’t proven he can play 2B or 3B yet. He’ll be back in the minors until he can prove that because the only role he could fill is that of utility IF and to do that, he needs to be able to play more than just SS.
He is young. He will get better and eventually be great
SJ44,
I agree with you about your assessment of the team. I do think Bruney can be a pretty good (3.5 era or so) 7th inning guy this year; you do have to consider that Youkilis is one of the best 2-strike hitters in the game. In terms of bullpen arms down the road, what do you think of Trenton’s David Robertson? Guy supposedly has a nasty fastball-slider combo, and his minor league track record the last year or so is impressive. Currently, he’s tearing up AA. Do you think he could be a legit late-inning guy come August?
Do you walk ARod and pitch to slumping Giambi (.095)??
If not, why not?
It is almost trough http://www.wunderground.com/ra.....rainsnow=0
If its a long delay, it may hurt Papelbon. He was already warmed up.
Now, you have to warmup again and get 4 outs. Wear and tear on that shoulder.
One more note re: Bruney. I would have brought him in the game in that situation.
That’s what you do in April. You put guys you need into situations to see if they can get the job done.
Its pretty telling already Girardi has no faith in Farnsworth or Hawkins, two guys making a helluva lot more than Bruney, to get an out in that situation. Pretty telling if you ask me.
That’s why I say that spot in the bullpen, the righty in a close game before Joba, is the soft underbelly on the team and needs to be shored up. If it is, the Yankees are going to be very dangerous this year.
Bronx, yeah you are probably right!
Wow want to talk about shadows!! watch the AZ game!!
Thanks Jen! Those words rolled off my lips like rain off a duck’s back. It is very difficult for me to hide my deep admiration for the green crapbox girlscouts!
Regardless of today’s outcome, Boston had to use Okajima and now Papelbon which renders them useless for the Sunday night game. This puts the pressure on Matsuzaka to have no worse than a quality start and run support with it.
Above all, make Papelbon pitch.
Myrtlebeach,
They aren’t yet. Then again, its early.
It is a better team than last year. Just not the best team in baseball right now. Which isn’t a bad thing.
I love Robertson but I don’t think he will be the guy this year. If he can finish the year in Scranton, he may very well be in the ‘pen next year.
My candidate is Melancon and Ohlendorf. I know Melancon got whack around the other day.
Let’s see what he is like after 30-40 minor league innings.
I still believe he is the guy who will be in the bullpen after the AS Break and be an asset to the team.
Scott Patterson is another guy whom I think will get his chance.
Perhaps sooner than later.
Ohlendorf, Patterson and Melancon. They are my candidates to fill the “leak” in the ‘pen.
I’m not sure Oki and Pap won’t still be available for a few batters each on Sunday night.
this is interminable. what are we supposed to do now? they could’ve played on. i’m gonna have to start thinking about responsibilities if this delay goes much longer. i just wanna float come on guys play ball!!
“Three guys: Bruney, Farnsworth and Hawkins who, at least thus far, are unreliable.”
I think we’ll see changes in the pen at some point. But Girardi made it very clear in the winter that he was committed to Farnsworth. Farnsworth’s role on this team may not have been guaranteed but there was no doubt he was going to make this team. Girardi decided to make Kyle his personal project because he caught him before.
Farnsworth has already shown this year that the new farnsworth remarkably similar to the old farnsworth. He’s really crippling the pen because he’s unusable in any type of big spot.
He’s in the last year of his deal – they should trade him to an NL team as soon as they can – could patterson or alabaladejo be worse than him?
Bruney – who knows. Given his track record it seems unlikely to me that he can suddenly turn around his career – weight loss or not. But he’s looked good in the appearances he’s made so far. This outing was a disappointment. But unlike Kyle at least bruney has shown something this year.
Farnsworth truly needs to go. He effectively turns a 7 man pen into a 6 man pen – he’s did that last year as well.
Bruney’s been good so far. one bad performance – it happens. hopefully it does not start a trend.
I was worried sending Moose out in the Bottom of the 6th with a one run lead, but you had to do it. The Yankees asked a lot from him today and he did a very credible job.
I did have a problem with Girardi pitching to Manny. He’s the most lethal bat in that line-up now, and I think you have to let Youkilis beat you with two outs. I would have walked Manny, then brought Bruney in to face Youkilis.
Would it have made a difference? Who knows? Youkilis did get a hit off of Bruney after all. It just seems you’d want to go with the percentages there and not let Manny (who crushed a homer earlier) beat you there.
Justin Upton has 5 HR. And he’s still a teenager. Wow.
AZ has some pretty good young players. Imagine if they actually got something in return for Schilling?
SJ44 I typically agree with your takes on things but I don’t agree that Girardi has no faith in Farnsworth and Hawkins. I don’t agree with that at all. I think he has faith in them but doesn’t want to set them up to fail and so would rather use them in situations that are not so pressure filled until they both start to have more confidence in themselves.
I don’t think Gonzalez goes back down. Betemit, has played 3B, but not very well. He’s a defensive downgrade, who can’t handle the bat, and can’t hit lefty pitching whatsoever. The ONLY thing, he will VERY occasionally run into a fastball hitting lefthanded. Betemit played very little 2B in spring training. I’m bettin money that if Gonzalez continues to play well until Jeter is ready, it will be Betemit DFA’d, and not Gonzalez.
It’s an old GM’s saying…You spend the first 1/3 of the season finding out what you need…You then spend the next 1/3 of the season trying to get the pieces you think you need…Then you soend the last 1/3 of the season hoping it all your assessments was correct…..Too early to talk about major changes, twinking here and there yes, trades not yet….
Weather man ran out once the Yanks had 2 on..to stop the moment. Also they said that Papelbum was not warmed up, well now he will be. The umpires should of just let Arod get his at bat. Now it will be like Arod is coming in cold and starting an inning, instead of 2 on and 2 out in the 8th to tie the game. That really killed the Yanks. Boston knew what they were doing.
15-20 minute warning
the rain has stopped
Pat, it is never too early to think trade…a good GM is always looking to upgrade their club. If that opportunity occurs in April or May, they do it. They don’t have to wait to the trade deadline.
I picked up Upton for my fantasy team I have 30 points from him this week!
the announcers kept calling manny ramirez man-ram…
I’m still drinking the Bruney kool-aid. I agree it is telling that Bruney and Traber have passed Farnsworth and Hawkins in pecking order in the pen. Of course everyone except Mike and the Mad Dog realize that’s the case. I agree Ohlendorf is going to be a great help this year.
By the way, I bet Alex is in the clubhouse watching video of Plopebon. Either way, I am sure the Yankees can score one run before Paps gets 4 outs.
Yanks will not keep Gonzo on the team when he can only play 1 position. If he could play 3rd or 2nd also then they probably would. He needs to play everyday not sit on the bench. Jeter plays everyday he would never get an at bat. They should see if he can play another position in the minors then they can get rid of Betemit and bring up Gonzo. I really like what I have seen from him.
About 30 minutes away from game being restarted.
Big Papi
I agree that you make a trade when you need to. The operative words there are when you need to.
The team the Yankees went into the season with is the team they need to stick with for more than 12 games into the season.
That’s what I think.
More than 1/2 hour away from game time according to FOX.
Jeff Marquez faired better than last time. Still not great in AAA. I was really hoping he would start out hot. Speaking of hot, how about Shelley Duncan? .545?
SJ44
You mean to tell me that the team that went 51-25 in the second half last year is not as good as this team, and this team is not the best team in baseball?
I had no doubt last year that our team was the best team in baseball, and I have no doubt this year. The Red Sox, who everyone calls the frontrunner, are having a difficult time with every team they face. They have looked terrible, aside from Manny, against our pitching.
Our offense, our biggest strength, will catch on and be even better. Our pitching is better than any other team’s pitching right now. The bullpen is doing great, much better than expected.
Wang, Pettitte, Mussina – All pitched *great* this week.
Hughes and Kennedy will now show their stuff.
This is the best team in baseball. Can’t argue against it, but you could argue for another team.
For everyone that wants Betemit DFA’d, who will back up Cano at second base? Gonzales is a SS, not a utility player.
Not saying that Big Papi, but really it’s April 13th…Just a bit early…Maybe by early May…I very well maybe wrong, it’s just I cannot recall such sweeping moves made this early in the season…..
Thanks Weatherman Boston Dave!
Trisha,
If Girardi really had faith in either Farnsworth or Hawkins, that’s the situation in which you use either guy.
Girardi has said he has made Farnsworth his pet project.
However, as Torre found out, you can’t rely on the guy.
I’m willing to give a little more slack to Hawkins. After 2+ seasons? Farnsworth gets none from me anymore. You simply can’t trust him to get outs in game changing situations.
Put it another way. 9.5 million dollars (the combined salaries of Farnsworth and Hawkins) sitting in the bullpen needing to get one out in the 7th in a 3-2 game.
He goes with the guy making 725K in Bruney.
Tells me all I need to know about his faith in either guy.
You can’t save 9.5 million dollar guys for games against second division teams.
This was the time to use either guy and he didn’t do it.
At least he learned his lesson quickly! lol
08 Prediction. Okajima will have an era in the high 4′s. His era was in the high 3′s in Japan and doesnt look like he’s fooling anyone.
Patterson earned a shot to make the team this year. See if Detroit will take back Farns.
FRan,
you are saying Betemit can play 2b?
Gonzalez can learn to play 2nd. I think he should stay on the team. I think injuries will solve the glut of players eventually. I actually think Morgan Ensburg needs to get some at bats vs. a righty to see if he could be a more regular player.
Cashman has already said that he is not planning on making any major roster moves before memorial day. He wants to see what he has with the team. That’s not a hard rule but that’s generally how he likes to approach the season.
I’m wrong, didn’t George wack Yogi after 18 games in 1984…That was fairly early in the season….
6-6 is the best team in baseball.
A team that is 4-13 in the last 4 post-seasons, with another first round loss last year, is also not the best team in baseball.
Its pretty easy to argue against it because the truth is in the performance.
Right now, and obviously its early but, if it was college football, the Diamondbacks would be ranked #1 in the country this week.
I see some breaks of sun here in Boston.
SJ – There are some other options that may prove viable for a bullpen spot around the all star break.
JB Cox who I believe will throw an inning today or tomorrow. He was close before the injury and is a college closer.
Humberto Sanchez. He is getting up on a mound soon, not sure if they will convert him to the bullpen, but was once one of the top pitching prospects in the game.
Then two minor league starters who could fill in at the end of the year like Joba last year – Horne or Mccutheon.
I think this will play itself out.
The pitching, starting and relief is light years ahead of last year at this time.
Alex, I guess Upton is twentyteen.
Betemit only plays ss/3B and not very well at that. Gonzalez has played 3B (albeit minimally). How can we advocate a downgrade utility infielder in Betemit over Gonzalez. It’ll be a damn shame if he gets sent down and rots in AAA. Jeter/Cano/Arod are locked in for years to come. I would much rather have Gonzalez backing them up simply for defense, versus Betemit bootin balls with no range anywhere.
SJ44,
Do you have a guess on a timetable and plan for Humberto Sanchez, yet?
I meant to say 6-6 or 7-5 is not the best team in baseball.
“Guys, The Sux and NESN have a faggy show that tries to make love matches.”
good aold trisha- are you racist as well? or just ignorant?
Sanchez hasn’t been cleared for game activity yet. I think Cox is supposed to pitch Sunday for Tampa.
Until guys get in game action, and perform well, its impossible to have a timetable on them.
Isnt shortstop a harder position to play than second? I mean i know it was little league and all(when i played both positions) but i thought that player short was the hardest position in the infield. Second was one of the easiest.
How do we get something from Farnsworth? Answer: Have him throw his fastball inside the cage in this rain delay. Get Alex to go out there in a groove.
Humberto Sanchez is throwing bullpen sessions, he will soon make his 2008 minor league debut.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen an offical Humberto Sanchez update yet. What have you guys heard?
earlier today there was a discussion why papelbon is so effective with his fast ball. one factor is that red sox pitching coach john farrel preaches locating the fastball and papelbon locates extremely well for his considerable velocity. farrel’s belief is that a hitter can not be ready for both an inside and an outside fastball. he has to pick one or the other.
so what does alex look for on the first pitch? i’d guess it’ll be an away fastball which alex could crush the other way if he’s looking for it. if alex thinks that way, he needs to let the inside strike go because he won’t hit it.
Humberto Sanchez: Still throwing bullpen sessions. No timetable for getting him into a game.
That comes straight from Chad Jennings Scranton blog which is awesome.
http://emedia.thetimes-tribune.....fault.aspx
JB Cox is slated to pitch the 1st inning tomorrow in Tampa. But like Melancon, gotta take everything with a grain of salt for the 1st 10-12 outings.
Anyone know a website where I can find career splits for Moose v individual players? I would like to see his career stats v Manny vs. his career stats v Pukalisp.
Thanks.
CB,
Have to give your props on picking Upton to be a big homerun hitter in the biggs as a teanager. And no, im not talking about b.j. this time.
thanks Mark, I may have to add that to the list.
“Put it another way. 9.5 million dollars (the combined salaries of Farnsworth and Hawkins) sitting in the bullpen needing to get one out in the 7th in a 3-2 game.
He goes with the guy making 725K in Bruney.
Tells me all I need to know about his faith in either guy.
You can’t save 9.5 million dollar guys for games against second division teams.”
SJ,
I just can not understand your logic.
Since when is it that the managers are required to make decisions based on how much they make?
Joba makes even less than Bruney. Does it mean it would have been wrong to use Joba, instead of Bruney?
Look, it was a situation where Girardi wanted one out and given it was sixth inning, Joba was not an option. He can bring in only one releiver, he went with Bruney who has been pitching well and it did not work out. I do not view it as a knock on Fransworth or Hawkins. Who knows, Fransworth would have struck out Manny. It is all ifs….
Boston Dave – well he has played 2nd base!
On another note Alex’s wife is due next week. Let’s hope that it doesn’t happen during the 2 games with the Sox next week. Alex has already said he will take a couple of days off. And when he does who plays 3rd? Ensberg I guess.
He has to be thinking away, even though the drilled him last season with an outer fastball…..Green Monster lurks near by…..
Here’s a question: Why in hell would a Sux fan bother to show up during a Yankee-Sux game? Glutton for punishment? This is called the lohud YANKEES blog.
I sure as heck don’t answer to Sux fans!
See ya now “Rich”.
Jeff – Absolutely add to the list. Chad’s blog is awesome.
Yes, I realize you cannot count on guys that haven’t pitched yet, but they are getting close. I don’t see how that is all that much different than counting on Farnsworth, Bruney or Hawkins to become excellent relief pitchers.
Just the point that as almost never before, the Yankees have some very intruiging internal options. You are probably looking to catch lightning from one player for a few months.
Trisha,
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/...../BOS/04120
Early in a season, I understand Joe G.’s decision to let Moose pitch. I would have walked Manny, though. If all we cared about was about this win, then let Joba come in to pitch to Manny, have him pitch the 7th, Bruney for the 8th with Mo waiting. But things we learned today might be more important down the stretch than the win today in April.
Gonzo has spent considerable time working out at 2nd base for the past 2 spring trainings and has been used at the position in exhibition games.
He has excellent footwork, quick hands, and a quick throw release, all components needed as a utility infielder and clearly better equipped than Betemit.
Whether he stays or not, he’s made an impression on those that count.
S.o.S 27,
If you have to take a flier on a young player to become a big time power hitter Upton is the guy.
He truly does have historically great tools. Great. That in no way guarantees that he’ll become a start but his probability of doing so is higher than just about any other prospect in the game.
He’s in that rare category of Griffey and ARod talent. That kind of player comes along once a generation.
Upton could be the player of this generation.
Trisha: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/pl.....e=Pitching
Here is my thought process BBFan:
Farnsworth and Hawkins were big FA acquisitions.
Originally, the plan was to have those guys pitch 7th and 8th innings and have Joba start.
Due in part to their collective ineffectiveness, regardless of the spin coming from the Yankees, the move was made to put Joba in the bullpen to start the season.
So far this season, just about every time Girardi put those guys in games, they haven’t gotten the job done.
Which brings us to today. Today was the ideal (if he had confidence in those guys) situation to bring either guy in to get an out. He chose not to.
Two veteran relievers, making big money, and he passed on both of them.
That’s a lot of cash to have tied up in mop up duty.
I was just using the dollar figure as an example as to how far both guys have slid on the totem pole this early in the season.
Thanks Abe. Walking Manny was my personal thought too. But I always know they have better info than I, so I just go with it.
Going to look at the stats.
I understand the argument about having Gonzalez playing everyday, but realistically, that ain’t ever gonna happen in the majors, at least in New York. So it’s either use him as a utility guy now, or let him rot in AAA for what? forever? I think Betemit is the odd man out.
So what has Arod been up to for this rain delay? Watching video? Practice swings? Checking out the Masters on TV? Is there a Scores within walking distance from Fenway?
Don’t you have a redsox blog to play on?
Alex should not try to do too much during this at bat. All he needs is a single. Then it will be Joba time and Yanks will have upper hand. Papelbon will be out after 9th innning.
Funny Jennifer, we didn’t see him in the blog last night or when his team got swept by the Blue Jays this weekend.
Using Papelbon quite a bit for 2 inning saves so early in a season.
Last time they went that route was 2 years ago and he didn’t finish the season.
Lot of strain on that shoulder. It will be interesting to see how he holds up this year if Tito is going to use him as much as he has in the early going.
Much love for the Red Sox on Fox, even in the studio they love’em…..The NY Yankees, the team you love to hate….
I meant **last** weekend.
alex needs three swings with his all out swing to hit the ball once in these situations so i’d rather he goes after early strikes. we don’t want to see him 0-2, 1-2 where the splitter comes into play.
pat m-
varitek is figuring arod is figuring away so… maybe look inside this time? flip a coin , but arod needs to pick one side or the other.
On the other hand, if A-Rod hits a home run, it will be historic…..It will crush Bosox psyche for good!
2 run double off the wall!
I thought I would find something staggering but didn’t. Pukalisp is just a bit ahead of Manny in avg. against Moose.
Of course it will be at least interesting to see what Girardi has to say.
Oh great Hawkins warming up..if the Yanks do not score. Hearing his name makes me sick. Girardi has to stop warming up Joba “incase” he is going to pitch. He did it yesterday also.
Thanks David. I also tried to do the career situational splits for Manny and Puke but I just ran out of – desire.
this studio group all picking Paps to get A Rod out reminds me of the Fox football guys all picking the Patriots or generally against the Giants every single week in the playoffs. They were always wrong which was half the fun for me.
Oh and according to one guy A Rod is only 2 for 5 against Papelbon, but he has struck out twice. Oh and he has one HR. Proof positive that A Rod will strike out here. Hilarious.
this studio group all picking Paps to get A Rod out reminds me of the Fox football guys all picking the Patriots or generally against the Giants every single week in the playoffs. They were always wrong which was half the fun for me.
Oh and according to one guy A Rod is only 2 for 5 against Papelbon, but he has struck out twice. Oh and he has one HR. Proof positive that A Rod will strike out here. Hilarious.
They just recovered the field with the tarp
“On the other hand, if A-Rod hits a home run, it will be historic…..It will crush Bosox psyche for good!”
no , the red sox are like cockroaches that survive even nuclear wars.
Since you are never supposed to hide your light under a bushel basket, I will come right out and say it.
I still support LaTroy Hawkins and expect that he will do really good things for the Yankees this season.
I do not get nervous whatsoever when I see him warming.
if the yanks score, what do you think about bringing mo in because he’s a quicker warmup, then going to joba for the 9th, giving him some more time to warm up?
UGH, Even the Red Sox grounds crew bothers me. They suck!
Arod strikes out! Damn it! I guess he just doesn’t care anymore once he got his big contract.
Keep warming up, Paps, don’t hold back. You can do your little dance too.
It sounds like Buck is ready to cry announcing that Papelsmear has had to warm up twice.
AWWWWW!!!!!
Loser McCarver the same.
WSR, that won’t happen.
This will be very interesting when A-Rod goes up against… Papelbon or Timlin. Papelbon has essentially thrown 1-2 innings already from warming up. One more time could hurt him enough to injure him. He won’t, at least, pitch both innings.
Either way, A-Rod will hit it out. I’m sure of it.
Pouring out again. That means Papelbon has to get up a second time, warmup, and get 4 outs.
If I’m Tito, I’d be real careful with him.
Only so many bullets in that shoulder per season.
Not really worth over doing it this early in the season.
Sometimes, you win the battle, yet lose the war.
Paps up and down for the 2nd time. If this game gets cancelled at this point, Yankee World will go nuts.
I saw Joba stretching before they put the tarp back on. Hope he didn’t warm up either.
They should bring out some cards so A-Rod can play Poker and not get all worked up inside.
I don’t get nervous at all when I see Hawkins or Farnsworth warm up………..
I get nervous when they come into games!
That said, if the Yankees don’t tie it up, I use Hawkins here.
By doing so, it means you don’t have to use him tomorrow! lol
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rain rain go away
A Rod vs. Papelbon better be a great at bat after all this
Two nights ago Francona had to bring Papelbon into the game in the 8th for the save.
The sox pen is very thin and they are already on a path to put a lot of stress on Okajima and Papelbon.
The yankee’s have bull pen issues – but they also have solid depth.
The sox are still relying on Mike Timlin.
Please lord-No Hawkins or Farnsworth.
Pete: “I’m sure he must be getting some swings somewhere.”
playing MLB 2K8 in the clubhouse counts?
What will A-Rod do against Papelbon? Vote in the poll now on the blog.
SJ44 just as I promised Don Vito that I would say he was right if Hawkins ends up tanking, I expect the same from all you Hawkins detractors if Hawkins ends up excelling the way I expect him to do.
Deal?
i voted for the ‘ha’
Trish…and I will stand to my word, as well…..This is a win that we WILL have, so I am ready to EAT CROW on my doomsday Hawkins prediction, if only for one game…
A reason the Yankees don’t DFA Betemit and keep AG on the biug league roster:
Maybe they think AG has a higher ceiling than utility infielder and don’t want to disrupt his development by having him rot on a big-league bench. When there’s an injury that will allow him to play regularly, it makes sense to have him in the bigs, but over the course of a season when we’re talking a game/couple innings here and there, the difference between him and Betemit is not big enough to justify stunting his development.
Howie Clark in the house?
A-Rod will double off the monster. I changed my mind.
Pete what do YOU think he’ll do?
I won’t vote. I don’t have any sense whatsoever. Okay, I’ll vote. I do have a feeling.
I can’t believe the Sox are going to pitch to ARod, instead of walking him in favor of the slumping Giambi.
I think what will happen is that Cynthia will go into Labor and A Rod will have to leave immediately. Wilson Betemit will pinch hit and pop up to 2nd on the 1st pitch.
myrtlebeach As God is my judge I was thinking wallball double.
It doesn’t mean we’re right of course, but I just wanted you to know the same thing came to my mind!
Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh
Detroit got shut-out 7-zip. Verlander the Great is now 0-2.
OMG am I watching Nascar for the first time in my life?
I also think Hawkins will turn in a better than decent season for the Yanks…..As for A-Rod, because of the wall, I think they pitch him down and away….Maybe even an off speed pitch to start the count….He’s thinking RF…
OMG am I watching Nascar for the first time in my life?
Lol. THey’re running out of stuff to show us.
It would be pretty funny if they gave Arod four fingers after all this to pitch to Giambi. Funnier still if the G-Man then draws a bases loaded walk, or…..
Pete,
The Fox Commentators said that the visiting Fenway locker room is the size of a junior high school locker room compared to other parks. They said the only place that A-rod could be getting swings is out in the rain.
-Schuyler
Vito, and I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you on this one. This one isn’t about crow – it’s about power, pride, and pinstripes!
“A reason the Yankees don’t DFA Betemit and keep AG on the biug league roster. Maybe they think AG has a higher ceiling than utility infielder and don’t want to disrupt his development by having him rot on a big-league bench. When there’s an injury that will allow him to play regularly, it makes sense to have him in the bigs, but over the course of a season when we’re talking a game/couple innings here and there, the difference between him and Betemit is not big enough to justify stunting his development.
AG does not have a high ceiling. His prospect outlook, is a utility player. And he needs to be on this team.
Bronx Betty – Verlander actualyl had a 2 hitter going into the 8th inning. He’s not to blame – Leyland is.
Trisha,
Deal. Although I have to admit, I’m as down on Hawkins as I am on Farnsworth.
The John Buck HR the other day put me off Farnsworth forever.
Hawkins? I will give him until Memorial Day.
If he proves he can’t do the job, its DFA time after that.
These Nascar people are already annoying the crap outta me.
Oh..the Godfather is on A&E followed by The Godfather, Part 2
ARod hits a dribbler down the third base line that Youkilis barehands and throws to first. The throw is a bit up the line and as Casey is going to place the tag, ARod slaps the ball out of his hands… Oh yeh I think we have seen that one before.
Joking – I had wall double at 7:24.
I hope that we still get a Yankee postgame show tonight on YES. The Nets are about to start.
It has been so long. I forget who’s on base, what’s the situation, etc. Someone remind me.
Bill from NJ -
sorry, sorry. Sheesh.
Classic Star Wars is on too and LOTR was on earlier.
Fran, if you are out of market like I am, I guarantee you are doomed. (I was going to use the “s” word but Pete asked for us not to use vulgarity, though I don’t know if that’s really considered vulgarity!)
Interesting managerial comparison between the Joe’s.
Girardi gets a +2 over Torre for having Damon sacrifice Molina and AG, and with AG’s cerebral baserunning leading to 2 runs – where the pedestrial style Torre employed would’ve yielded 0 runs. Even if Molina moves over to 3rd on the Cabrera out, he would’ve never scored on the wp.
Pretty confident Damon wouldn’t gotten base hit.
Of course I was hoping that Girardi would’ve started with the bullpen for the 6th to reward Moose’s performance and give him confidence with a Win only result… Despite that the key result is not IBB Manny (as discussed earlier) – which Torre 100% would’ve done. With IBB Boston would’ve only scored 2 on Youk hit and Manny would’ve been at either 2nd or 3rd
So we give Girardi a -1 here over Torre.
So right now in this game – Giradi is +1 over Torre.
Like the fact that youngsters are contributing with energy and performance…
Peter do you know what Girardi’s feelings about sliding head first into 1st B? This is the only base where it makes absolutely no sense sliding… If he collides with Beckett – maybe he dislodges the ball and allows the run score.
jeffnj-
that makes two of us. so far i’ve learned ,” if it aaain’t broke, doon’t feex it”.
great.
BTW Scrantow laying down the lumber – 16 runs on 21 hits including homers for Shelley and Juan Miranda. Gardner 3-4 with a double and a triple.
BB – im only bitter because hes on my fantasy team, and leyland is a moron.
Hey y’all. I just have to show you something. I will put it up by way of photobucket. It is a Yankee t-shirt that someone local dreamed up. I swear that I love this t-shirt so much that I think it may be the BEST I have ever seen.
I know he’s going to be selling them if anyone is interested. I will get the information. I had him send me pictures of it.
Trisha – I am in market. I live in NYC. Just might have to wait a while for the postgame.
slapping the ball outta his hand- why is that illegal?
if a runner knocks over a catcher and at the same time, directly ejects the ball from the catcher’s mitt, that’s legal.
I predict A-Rod will walk. Giambi will make out. Sox win 4-3.
I didn’t say AG has a “high ceiling,” I said he may have a higher ceiling than utility infielder. If there is no injury, than the playing time is so limited that the incremental improvement does not justify the lost development potential. He obviously can play exceptional defense, and his bat appears to be improving. He’s too young to rot on the bench. If he hasn’t proved himself good enough to be a big-league regular in a couple of years, he can be a utility guy.
What channel is Star Wars on?
Anyone hear anything about how much longer the delay is going to be?
Eh, Gonzalez is 25. I changed my mind. Let him ride the pine.
I think they just showed someone taking the spikes out of the tarp on the field.
How can people watch Nascar? What is the appeal of cars going in circles?
Nevermind-found it…Empire Strikes back on Spike
Better than watching Nascar
I don’t get why we’re getting on Girardi case for pitching to Manny.
After all, Francona intends to pitch to ARod, instead of the slupping Giambi, and nobody (Peter included) is questing that decision.
if Girardi was wrong, then so is Francona. You can’t have it both ways.
No word. Weird weather. I’m in Foxboro, less than 25 miles to the south and we’ve seen nary a drop all day. If you saw the radar on TV you’d swear the weather gods were aiming at Fenway. Such a slim band, but it’s the city taking the hit.
Rob,
So we are going to send him down, not get any use out of him for a couple years, and develop him for another team, is that what your saying? That’s absurd. He will not have a spot as a starter in New York, case closed. He should be our utility guy now. Betemit should be DFA’d or maybe he can bring a little something back in a trade from a team that needs a little lefthanded pop of the bench.
Bronx Better, you don’t walk the go ahead run into scoring position. That’s baseball 101. They had runners on 2nd and 3rd with an open base. Not even close to the same situation.
what channel is the gAME GOING TO BE ON
ok here is my issue of the day need some recommendations. My fantasty team for next week. Shoudl I satrt EvanLongoria or Pedro Feliz for my 3rd baseman. Yes I know not that much difference but Feliz beleeve it or not is starting to heat up nas dis playing at home all week and Longoria is facing Yanks, Minny and White SOx .
Also I guess now that we have the Nets game there will not be a YES postgame
“I don’t get why we’re getting on Girardi case for pitching to Manny.
After all, Francona intends to pitch to ARod, instead of the slupping Giambi, and nobody (Peter included) is questing that decision.
if Girardi was wrong, then so is Francona. You can’t have it both ways.”
1st base isn’t open for Arod the way it was for Ramirez. When Ramirez came up, the lead run was in scoring position. As Arod comes up, the lead run would be put in scoring position with a walk. That would be a mistake.
Fran – you’re lucky. I would think they will show the postgame no matter what time it comes on.
Bronx Betty, sorry.
Josh the appeal is waiting for a car to crash.
Is the game coming back soon?
SDJohn
Scroll up a few posts. I realized he’s older (25) than I previously thought and I’m with you.
It’s still only the 8th inning. At this rate, the Yankees post game could come on after the Nets game.
8:25 start time folks. Still time to vote in the poll.
is it still going to be on FOX?
It will be interesting to see if they warm up Paplebon AGAIN!! One of the morons on the fox show said hey he is a reliever he should be able to do it. The other guy said yeah but he is a closer so they don’t get him up and down.
Yes Rocco. They will put the game on instead of Nascar, and switch back to Nascar when it’s over.
Rocco it better be. People in the NE don’t care about nascar. We care about the NYY!
SDJohn-
Fredo-
I understand. But this is ARod (he hit 50 jacks last year, including one off Pap in Fenway), while Giambi is hitting 2-24.
I am amazed that the delay has lasted so long. If you looked at the radar you would have thought it was going to be a 30 minute delay at most!
Gayle and Trish – They will probably put the post game on after the Nets game.
Gayle – I believe we face off next week in fantasy baseball. So I will not offer you advice on a starting 3rd baseman!
Time to be realistic… A-Rod will strike out. He’s been sitting for 2 hours with nowhere to get his swings in.
The radar is now completely clear to the West. This game will get finished tonight.
Fausto Carmona signs… and then turns back into a walking machine?
3.1 2 2 2 8 1
that’s 8 walks….
Nascar is great! You can miss it for a while and when you get back the cars are still going around taking left turns! So lets get back to the ball game!!!
Game back on in 60 seconds and fox is still showing racing.
YOu can’t walk the go ahead run into scoring position though. You have to play the percentages and plus the righty righty matchup. The chances of Arod hitting a bomb here, are less than Giambi getting a little ol’ base hit to bring the go ahead run around. You can’t do it. Now, if the runners were on 2nd and 3rd, yes, you walk Arod to pitch to Giambi.
Not only will A-Rod make an out, he will make out on the very first pitch!
Fran thanks for nothing lol
I really think Papelbon could struggle. He’s warmed up twice, two full bullpen sessions, then began to warmup on the field. Now he’s probably going to throw another full session to get the arm warm, then go out on the field and continue to warm.
By the time A-Rod gets out there, he will have thrown three full bullpen sessions, one+ on-field warmups. That’s a lot of work for a closer. He might only be available for the finish of the 8th with the amount of pitches he could have thrown by now.
Meanwhile, all A-Rod has probably done is study Papelbon immensly over the last 2 hours or so. And knowing him, he’s probably taken a couple dozen cuts in the cage and done some soft toss into a screen with Kevin Long.
It’s going to be a crucial at-bat and I think at this point in time, A-Rod has to be the man with the advantage here.
Can’t wait, just a couple more minutes…
All i know is Alex better have a good AB at the very least. I’ll be pretty annoyed if he makes an out on the first pitch he sees after all this time.
Hopefully Alex will get a hit, but remember the Yanks also have the 9th inning to play.
Paplebon warming up again! #3. This should bode well for Alex.
omg..enough Nascar
what’s going on here FOX? You’re not gonna seriously give pointless NASCAR chit chat take precedent over the Yankees-Red Sox are you?
why is nascar still on? Its 5:25
Will the game be on TV?
These nascar people are so freaking Annoying.
They should have used the bell for that disaster of rapid fire questions before the Yankees game.
Duncan was 3 for 5 with a HR, 2B, and a BB in today’s game. He’s hitting .571…
Gardner was 3 for 4 with a 2B and a 3B. He’s hitting .400!
Woooohoooo!
OMG finally!! Someone tell Paplebon there is a game, and he shouldn’t just take his sweet time.
Anyone know what channel the game will resume on?
A-rod is just waking up. gotta wait for the ump to call play ball!
Suzy says that paplebon gets as long as he wants? He isn’t a starter! It takes him 10 pitches to get warm. Get it on already!
has the game restarted?
Fenway`s empty
Gami is back on MLB! Arod still napping.
Finally
Mike GOOD!!
game about to restart
Brian,
If Pap throws a fastball to the outside half, as I suspect he will with the first pitch, and ARod is sitting on it, he can take it to RF.
I watch many Sox games and Papelbon almost always starts off with the fastball outside – he may change it up for ARod.
I am fine if ARod wants to guess fastball on the first pitch and takes a good swing at it.
Game is also on FX
Oh Man, I hope A-Rod gets a hit or something. Because I just sat through an hour of freaking nascar to watch this game. It better be WORTH IT!!!!!
here we go!
You talk about drama. That AB was bigger than life 2 and 1/2 hours ago! Now it is at mystic proportions!
What did they say about FX? FYI that’s 248 on DirecTV.
If it were Manny or Papi coming up, they’d be calling them dangerous…Here’s a 3 time MVP, And he gets no respect….
Jason should have stayed in the dugout, maybe they’ve forgotten who is on deck.
game is on fx when nascar starts
I just got real nervous all of a sudden
Thanks Jeff! After this I’ll switch to FX
What channel is fx on cablevision?
I knew he was going to swing at the first pitch.
mystic and mythic proportions
i got really nervous too…..
Never mind found it.
Channel 40 for those wondering.
Alex!!
It’s just a game.
It’s just a game.
It’s just a game.
Besides – there’s another inning!
Gotta tip your cap to Paps there and get ‘em in the 9th.
The mighty Casey has struck out!
There’s a nice at bat
i voted wrong
I’d like to see Joba fist pump Paps in the face. Arrogant ^&^%@$
Not surprised
Yeah, cap tip to Papelsmear. Someone had to win that AB and someone had to lose.
I hope mike and the rapid dog carry on, on Monday about Paplebons fist pump and screaming!!!
i waited around for over 2 hours for that?
papelbomb didnt even have to throw him a strike in that entire AB.
Its a bird,
Its a plane,
Noooooo
Its Captain Clutch!!!!!
Ugh.
that was certainly worth the wait. Thanks Alex.
3 pitches. jesus christ.
well that was certainly worth it… wasn’t even a friggin contest.. bad AB by ARod
Wayyy to anxious that ab. We’ll get them in the 9th
Good morning, Good afternoon and Good night Mr. Arod
Still the ninth to go…
NASCAR is truly mind-numbing, like watching a group of billboards going around in a circle.
Over the course of the season I believe Alex will win more games for us than not. Besides this game is not over yet.
All the hype for nothing. Too much time for Arod to get anxious and think about all of the possible pitch sequences.
This one is still far from over. All it takes is a scoreless inning here and the Yankees will still have the 4-5-6 hitters coming up in the 9th. That last pitch was a missed opportunity for A-Rod, though. They were setting up high and inside and Papelbon missed his spot by two feet.
so up and in to arod. strike one. okay. splitter ouch. uh oh 0-2. strike three.
now arod, we were looking for a little more effort there.
Stop the freakin whining. It’s one AB. BFD.
No it’s not, but he should have taken a pitch.
Imagine issuing a fistpump after fanning the best player on earth with two men on up a run in the 8th.
Thanks Fran.
A voice of reason.
WOW…Don’t like to say this, but was some serious ….stuff…..A-Rod never stood a chance this time around…That first strike doomed him in the pitch sequence…9th inning heroics to come..
Told you A-rod was napping!
http://bostondirtdogs.com/
Just helping you out here. tell someone over there maybe they will care.
does anyone know who was warming for the Sox for the 9th?
I think Hawkins is going to get his first Yankee win today.
I wonder if Papelbon comes out for the 9th. With how stupid Alex looked in that at bat, he might just come back out. I was atleast hoping Alex walks and make Papelbon work.
get em in the 9th
I rather see the visible emotion that the stoid players anytime…whether the play for the Yanks or not… it makes it sweeter to beat the emotional (if they play against us) and players like Paul and Joba energize the fan base.
Fredo Corleone
Geez you are thick. You don’t get it do you. Everyone is criticizing Joba for doing, that is what is being pointed out.
Well, atleast Hawkins is blooming.
I hope the numbskulls at the park stop chanting “paulie”
Fish lips is back for the 9th?
Speaking of Nascar, none of dem sumbitches could beat me in a race from my driveway to work.
papelbon coming back out.
Yeah Fredo, after a 2 and 1/2 hour rain delay. WOOOOOO! Don’t push your luck here pal.
I’d rather remember the look on the little ugly hayseed Papelsmear’s face when Arod took him deep and won the game.
Bye now.
Oh no wait! Before you go.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp
ignore the trolls.
funny how they were absent last night and last weekend.
I’m sorry, the 5-6-7 hitters are due up for the Yankees in the 9th. And Boston had Timlin and Javier Lopez warming up in the pen.
when Cano gets up someone should whisper in his ear “that’s actually curt schilling on the mound…”
he’ll hit a bomb for sure.
One batter the difference today.
Get tomorrow’s and they take 2 out of 3.
What are the chances Giambino doesn’t pop up in the infield during his AB? I like our chances with him (asuming no popup), Posada, and Cano. Let’s get a lead and hand it over to Mo!
Some love for LaTroy here! I want to hear it.
they’re only down 1 run with an inning to go Pepper Brooks. at least humor us with a tiny bit of faith.
Well, Yanks will score a run in the 9th.
In the 11th, A-Rod hits one out to win the Game….
Latroy pitched a great inning.
BB for Giambi and Jorge goes deep to right.
I love it when we ignore trolls. Those unintelligent oafs that carry spiked clubs and have a greenish hue to their skin.
They are quite unpleasant.
Hawkins did well
let’s get some runs please
Just a note, just because Paplebon looks good tonight doesn’t mean that warming up 3 times in the space of 3 hours won’t harm him down the line.
Papelbon is out of tomorrow night’s equation altogether. Francona is desperate for a win.
I hate Giambi so much. I cannot wait til we have Mark Teixeira next year. I hope they never invite him back to Yankee Stadium ever agian. Bum.
This may sound crazy, but I’d've pinch-hit Jeter here.
or not
I wonder if PHing Matsui for Giambi would be a good idea.
did anyone notice? the little scrolling score box in the top right corner on fox said “NYY 3 BOS 4 F”. little presumptuous there fox.
Jenn:
No, that’s not what’s being pointed out. I believe the word was arrogant, which is pretty unreasonable given the situation.
Further, I’m all for Joba expressing his emotions upon getting a big out. Most of those critics were Yanks fans who incorrectly believe the team is somehow above that.
Jennifer – I absolutely agree. And I don’t think they’ll have him tomorrow night.
Wow and it looks like it got cold in Fenway.
the yankee hitters don’t look warmed up.
I guess you never heard of sarcasm?
Lot of doctors on Lohud
PapelPunk’s time to choke is NOW !
Joe Buck wants a strikeout so bad.
Hawkins did well ? I missed…Ok…round 4 to Trisha !
Definitely no Pap tomorrow. I like our chances.
At least Jorge is making Paps throw a few pitches.
Giambi – fat bum. take the money and eat.
Good AB for Jorge
Good at bat by Posada regardless of what happens.
Georgie making him work. This should def put him out for tomorrow.
Boston Dave
April 12th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
ignore the trolls.
funny how they were absent last night and last weekend.
Boston Dave,
Not all Sox fans that come on here are trolls. I came on here last night and even said that Wang had pitched a great game.
Keep making this jerk pitch.
at least jorge humored us with a decent AB. would’ve been nice if Alex could’ve done that in the 8th.
Papelbon has always celebrated excessively. Always. He could strike out a little league kid and he’d still scream his head off and throw his fists around. Joba gives a fist pump in SOME situations. Paps gives them every frikkin time.
Gotta love Jorge. Definitely the heart of the Yankees. Always has quality at bats. Even after the strike out, he made Papsmear work. Giambi needs to watch tape of Posada’s at bats.
OK…i’ll agree that Giambi has no place on this team next year….Letting PugNose strike you out ?…sad !
ray I don’t think that is what he was saying.
*whispers in Cano’s ear “dude thats curt schilling in disguise!”*
Someone tell Cano this isn’t cricket…
This Yankees’ offense is pretty pathetic actually.
It is like clockwork around here…the minute the Yankees fall behind, everything turns ugly.
Papi ain’t that the truth.
Giambi sees more pitches per at bat than everyone except for Abreu…why should he review Posada’s at bat?
*crosses fingers* Please walk, Robbie.
Good eye, Robbie. On some of ‘em at least.
With the game on the line, our team needing a run, the offense can’t come through, again.
Nobody better crack on Robby’s AB!
Cano is getting good at fouling off pitches, hopefully that manifests itself into a pickup of his offense.
He will miss outside with this pitch. Its just whether or not Rob swings.
I guess those 6 wins mean nothing huh?
Franconer might have to bring in Timlin to finish this AB.
There will be blood.
fingers and toes crossed
IT’S ON FX NOW
Nice abrubpt channel switch there, I hope everyone was ready.
guess you can’t improve on that closing effort…
What did FOX just do? Full count on Robbie and they cut away to NASCAR?
wtf was fox just thinking
WTF ? They just cut away to this redneck nonsense like that ?
BFD.
Fran, we’ll get em, tomorrow night.
Well, even though Robbie didn’t get a hit, he made Papsmear throw 10 pitches. That counts for something.
can you believe they cut away like that – too bad cano couldnt do better that would have been great, oh well
Cano swung at way too many balls and would have walked on the first 4 pitches, but he redeemed himself with all the fouls. Papelbon will (hopefully) be out of action for a few games.
This is the biggest waste of my time that I can remember. 4-9 watching a game that we lose. Doesn’t get much worse than that.
Ok, we won one, they won one. We have Joba and Mo at full rest for tomorrow, they had Paps warm up four times. Advantage Yanks.
WTF!!!!!!!!!! Damn FOX! What’s happening?!
Well Robbie put on a good ab. And Paplebon is likely done for the weekend.
Good things to take away from this game.
Over all Mike pitched a great game. One pitch he’d like to take back.
Hawk pitched a crisp clean inning.
Cano worked a great ab.
And obviously the AB ends with Cano trying to pull an outside pitch. He was doing so good ’till that. Why can’t he just go the other way? When he did he got a double
Gotta tip your cap to papelbon. He shut the yankees down. I hope Giambi isn’t in the lineup tomorrow. Can’t stand looking at this bum anymore.
damn. great AB by Cano though. i’m impressed with him for that. good news is, Joba and Mo will still be fresh tomorrow. Empire Strikes Back is on Spike… see ya.
“This is the biggest waste of my time that I can remember. 4-9 watching a game that we lose. Doesn’t get much worse than that.”
Um, perhaps you’ve forgotten 2004. That was worse than anything.
Couple good AB’s by Posada and Cano. Defensive, but effective.
Moment of silence for Evan Longoria’s 1st RBI please.
I was really disappointed in ARod’s 3-pitch strikeout. At least Robbie made him throw 8-10 pitches.
Nick – Yep.
Advantage Yankees tomorrow.
My prediction was that we would take at least two out of three. We’ll have to wait for tomorrow night for the rubber match.
I cant believe we almost beat the Red Sox with Mike Mussina on the mound facing Beckett and Papelbon… awesome job by the Yankees. When Jeter comes back we will take em. Wang was much better than Beckett.
thats what girardi gets for matching mussina with beckett. well deserved loss for torre jr.
whoever is using my name, find another one!
Ray,
I didnt suggest that you were a troll. You are probably aware of who I am referring to. I don’t really understand why any Sox fan would come here and read or post, but for the considerate ones, it’s not a problem.
bruney and arod cost them the game
I have a guarantee, if Papelbon pitches tomorrow he will be on the disabled list within 7 days. That being said, I like our chances to win the series tomorrow. That’s the name of the game.
Wow, this is proof the entire FOX empire is tailored toward rednecks. That was unbelievable. Not only did they switch to a station I don’t get, without warning, but then they cut to commercial five seconds after the race started. They have THE WORST production team in sports.
Trisha – You said 2 of 3 and I like our chances tomorrow. I am still with your prediction,
1. The Yanks hit Matzuzaka.
2. Joba and Mo are rested.
3. Boston doesn’t have their closer.
great job starting damon in LF. what a disaster damon has been. why bench matsui? matsui has been on a tear and hes benched for a little leaguer like damon.
What does everyone think about that play Gonzalez made at home plate on wild pitch? If Jeter was in the same position, you think he would have made that play?
Fox should have warned viewers PRIOR to switching.
pathetic.
we shoudl sue fox for cutting out like that!
hope Phil is on his game tomorrow with the way the yankees have been hitting and the way Dice-K has been pitching it could be an ugly game!
Russell exactly! I am a big Mussina fan, but honesty I didn’t think we’d have a great chance at winning today. He kept us in the game.
Now we turn our attention to Dice.
This game goes under the Girardi loss column. His first as manager. You absolutely can not let Manny bet you in that inning. He should of went out and said put him on 1st you dont ask Moose you tell him. Let Youk that animal bet you..not the person who always does. Arod had just a dreadful at bat. Which I figured that he would since he had so much time to think about it. Also Arod next time wait for a strike before you swing the bat.
The team was done in by Girardi’s horrible decision. And by some weak hitting, yet again.
Posada is completely messing up the DH situation. He is taking Matsui’s bat out of the line-up..either he catches or he sits…not like he is doing much with the bat anyway
This was a long day. Sucks we couldn’t get a win.
Let’s get them tomorrow. Go Phil!
Oh well, it was a good game. Have to give credit to Papelbon for that save. Nice inning from Hawkins as well.
As for the Yankee bats, some seem to be picking up while others are still dead in the water. Let’s hope for better tomorrow.
And a hearty profane gesture to FOX, for demonstrating yet again why you shouldn’t be broadcasting any MLB games. Far more suited to the yokels who watch NASCAR.
dice-k has been pitching well this year and our offense is playing like crap (fire long). i predict a 9-2 loss tomorrow.
Russell W has the right frame of mind.
Not many outside of NY gave the Yanks even a fighting chance to win with Mussina v. Beckett.
If Mussina pitches like this the Yanks are in VERY good shape.
Russell W -
Spoken like a true Yankee fan and a person who knows the value of the team he roots for.
Sorry for any knee jerkers who felt you were promised a win every time you turned on the television.
The Yankees lost a game in which they were great. Rain delay, yada yada yada.
Moose was awesome.
LaTroy was awesome.
Robby got going.
Some great D.
This is the team that will take you to #27 this season. Count on it.
im ok with damon today because his bunt essentially got them those 2 runs in the 6th.
i think everyone expects arod to strike out with RISP now.
anti-mussina you’re too optimistic about the yankees
well, that was a lot of work for the red sox considering they had their ace going and the yankees had their #5. papelbon may pay for this one in the future.
kind of hate losing a one run game where we didn’t get a chance to get joba or mariano in there to prevent one or two of those runs. short of bringing joba in for the 6th and 7th what else was there to do?
i think sj44 had it right when he basically said girardi didn’t have any good options in the 6th inning and that may well be the underbelly of this yankee team. girardi definitely has choices: it’s just that none are great ones.
Frank D
Papelbon made some great pitches (especially the first couple to each batter to get ahead 0-2). I thought he made a couple minor mistake pitches after that but obviously they were still good enough and the Yanks couldn’t make him pay for them. His splitter looked as good tonight (pitch #2 to both ARod and Jorge) as I’ve seen in a while.
antimussina..what the heck is your beef with long? A-Rod sings his praises and this team had no problem scoring runs last year. he has done nothing wrong.
Anti-mussina
Yanks have a little bit of a cunundrum (sp?). Matsui can’t play LF. He’s awful. Yet, the Yanks pitching, especially Mussina do much better pitching to Molina. Wouldn’t shock me if Damon, Matsui, Giambi trio lose AB’s in the name of having a good catcher on the field while Posada DH’s.
ADave:
Jeter scores on that wild pitch too. Still hasn’t lost his baserunning acumen.
If FOX needed to switch because of contractual obligations to NASCAR, just tell people. They are horrible!
Great stuff, even if things didn’t go our way…..I do fear that Giambi is playing his way out of the lineup….Salary or no salary…..He looked at 2 fastballs that were on the inner half….How long does Giradi hang with him….As for Paplebon, the 08 edition looks awfully good…23 pitches to close out the 9th with no body getting on is alot…He’s done until Tuesday…..
Our old friends sara and anti moose are back. And what a shock to complain about the loss!! Color me shocked!!
“i think everyone expects arod to strike out with RISP now.”
Hardly, if you look at the results of the poll. I think you’re speaking for yourself.
Hopefully Mussina is the only pitcher who, even when having a good game, might not make it through 6 innings. If Wang, Pettitte, or Hughes are out there and on their game, there won’t be a need for a 6th inning guy out of the pen.
That said, i’ll take this effort from Mussina all season. He wins comfortably more than half of his decisions if he keeps this up.
Mussina was perhaps the biggest question mark on the team. So far, so good.
I think you have to walk manny with first base open in th 6th or 7th. I would always rather take my chances with someone else.
nice AB from cano. I know he has great career numbers but I’ve seen him struggle in some tense situations (mainly bases loaded) but after papelbon struck out everyone in front of him he kept on top of the ball and stayed with it. I hope to see a monster year from him as he is the future of this team
“dice-k has been pitching well this year and our offense is playing like crap (fire long). i predict a 9-2 loss tomorrow.”
might as well not watch the game tomorrow…
excuse me jennifer? were you referring to me complaining about the loss? i thought the Yankees played a good solid game. they need to pick it up with RISP but i am not complaing about anything.
when cash realizes his job is on the line he will sign barry bonds and bat him behind AROD.
anti-mussina, whether he meets the strict definition of troll or not, is worth ignoring.
engage at your own risk.
Boston Dave,
I agree, the splitter looked right on the money, and IIRC I haven’t seen Papelbon hit 97 on the gun in awhile. He did exactly what he needed to do against the heart of the lineup. Have to tip my hat there…
The Red Sox were expected to win this game – the pitching matchup going in was overwhelmingly in their favor.
The yankees played a very good game and Moose put up an excellent performance.
They got beat 4-3 but the sox struggled to win what should have been a very easy game for them.
They had their #1 starter going against the yankee’s #4 starter. That was the same matchup the yankees had last night with wang – and wang dispatched the sox easily.
The goal is to win series. The yankees are set up very well to do so tomorrow night.
They’ve hit Matsuzaka very well. They aren’t going to swing at all of the ball out of the zone Matsuzaka throws and they are going to drive his pitch count up.
If nothing else, in this game they eliminated Papelbon for tomorrow’s game.
And the past two nights they’ve forced Francona to warm up and use Okajima.
Matsuzaka on the hill and the sox pen is thin for tomorrow. That’s fine.
This has been a very good series for the yankee’s so far. They’ve played excellent baseball.
Cano is looking better at the plate as are Giambi and Posada. Hawkins even had a nice inning in a big spot – down 4-3 in fenway is easily a situation that could have gotten away from him.
And Mo and Joba are completely rested for the game tomorrow. If needed it’ll be joba for 2 and mo for 1.
Boston Dave – I agree. Mussina is our #4. Beckett is their ace.
Someone’s gotta keep anti-mussina away from the hooch during games.
please-NO MORE GIAMBI-another 3 hit game for shelley at scranton
I dont think I’ve ever felt better after a Yanks loss to the Sox.
I dont see how anybody can’t feel positive about Mussina’s performance.
We can debate the Manny AB all night but the Yanks were pretty close to taking a game, in Fenway, against one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball, with arguably our weakest starter on the mound.
omg did the yankees lose?! i didnt get to see the last part of the game!
Can you believe FOX? Is there a reason they switched back to car racing in the middle of an at-bat? Is it possible to do a worse job in the coverage of professional sports than FOX?
Were I the Commissioner of Baseball, that decision alone would compel me to rescind their contract?
If you’re so incompetent that you can’t furnish the coverage the contract obligates you to then please reliniquish your rights to the programming.
FOX IS A DISGRACE.
sara April 12th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
antimussina..what the heck is your beef with long? A-Rod sings his praises and this team had no problem scoring runs last year. he has done nothing wrong.
——
that was last year when posada and arod were on their own personal performance boosters. what a surprise they both tested the free agent market… and what do you know their #s aren’t as good this year. I am so shocked……. NOT. fire long.
Boston Dave..if this game was in June or July I belive the Yankees would have won..bats would be hotter. Yanks have been known to rock beckett!
ahhh they did lose. and whats this about matsui not getting to play?
Did anyone see the Cano’s at-bat?
Why cant Joba come in the sixth inning when the game is on the line i want our best going up against their best when the game is on the line… just so happened today it was the 6th inn and not the 8th.
Frank,
def tip your hat to Pap. A top 15 closer, against any team, is going to save the game what, 70-75%, of the time? Papelbon is top 3.
The Yanks have gotten to him before and will get to him again. Tonight, he was lights out. Tomorrow is another day.
Kill-Schill -
He had a very good AB. Made fish mouth throw a lot of pitches. He ended up grounding out.
Fox dropped my feed of the game with the count 3-2. Do they have any clue about how to cover professional sports?
i totally feel better about this loss knowing that the Muts lost with Johan on the mound
It has been a very positive sign to see Mussina giving the Yankees quality outings so far. He doesn’t have to be perfect, just give the team an opportunity to win, and he is doing just that. Even though his fastball isn’t smoking and blazing by hitters, he still has enough ingenuity and knowhow to get guys out.
Just as Russell said, he was able to hold his own against Beckett for the most part. It will be much easier for him once the rotation gets lined up properly, because he won’t be pitching against an ace every time out.
i admire girardi’s willingness to play small ball, but you don’t do it with mike pussina on the mound. the old man gives up a run per inning.
It was a sucky loss. It’s just one game and it’s early in the season but I don’t like tone set that Arod got owned again by Sox pitchers.
My consolation is that we kept the game so close with a match-up of Beckett/Okajima/Papelbon against Moose/Bruney/Hawkins. Pretty incredible especially given the bats were cold.
Looking back I wonder about the decision to sit Matsui and not to walk Manny. But monday morning quarterbacking is cheap.
Tomorrow makes me a bit nervous. Hope Hughes finally settles in and the bats wake up for good.
sara,
I cant argue with that. The Yankee bats (nor the Sox) are in full swing yet.
Can you imagine the beatings the Yanks will be handing out if their pitching continues like this once the bats heat up?
when is the next game?
Moose: So far, so good. Gotta give the man his props – his hard work and smarts are paying off. I’m glad for him and the team. Can’t wait to see how Franchise will fare tomorrow night (thank you ESPN).
where is jennifer? she didn’t answer my question!
As others have pointed out, if one of the matchups definitely didn’t favor us, it was this one. And yet the Sux ended up having to fight mightily for the win. One pitch or batter more or less and it definitely might have gone the other way.
Tell you what. These Sux suck. I agree with Boston Dave. I don’t remember feeling better about a loss in a long long time.
“Did anyone see the Cano’s at-bat?”
KS,
It was an excellent, very professional at bat. He showed a lot of patience. Papelbon started him out on the first pitch with a high fastball cano didn’t offer at. You could tell Papelbon figured Cano would swing wildly at a ball out of the zone on the first pitch. But he laid off.
He really made papelbon work. Fouled off a number of tough pitches.
It was the best at bat any yankee had of papelbon.
On the post game show, Suzyn said:
1. Joe said that Moose said he thought he could nibble vs. Manny. If he fell behind he would have walked him. Moose also said he did not feel any more comfortable vs. Youklis.
She said that Girardi is being peppered with questions.
Dee,
I wasn’t a fan on benching Matsui, arguably the hottest bat right now.
I know he needs some days off this season, and I guess they wouldn’t piss off the Japanese by benching him tomorrow night, but it’s tough to pull his bat out of the lineup right now.
I would have DH’d him and let Posada rest. I don’t like playing both of your catchers in the same lineup anyway. A little risky.
boston dave,
i agree..if the pitching holds up once the bats got hot Yanks are going to be punishing teams big time! let’s keep our fingers crossed!
london-tomorrow 8:05pm on ESPN
so what if fox dropped the game? they knew how it was going to end (so did i).
what are people going to do about it anyway?
Dear Fox,
I thought it was unprofessional of you to drop a baseball game in place of nascar. – you
Dear you,
Shut up and kiss our behinds. – Fox Network
This would have been a steal if we had come away with a win.
I have faith the bats will heat up and am a little surprised at how good the pitching and defense have looked so far.
There is lots to like about this team.
Fran,
I don’t like the idea of “nibbling” against a professional hitter like Manny. He usually isn’t going to swing at crap, especially if you can’t bring the heat to keep him honest.
Oh well – hopefully it’s a lesson learned and they move on.
Is there anyway we can install a no swing until there is a strike on the batter rule for Arod. How do u swing at the first pitch after a two and a half hour rain delay.
This blog has turned into insanity. It used to be a good place to come and read comments of fans who had an clue. All of a sudden we lose one game and the world is going to end. Didn’t we learn a lesson last year the season is long. We are what 12 games in. Look at the positives. Mussina hasn’t been that bad. We are actually winning some close games. Joba and Mo have been lights out. Bruney may be something to work with. Gonzalez has filled in nicely. Molina is the best backup catcher we have had in years. This team will hit. Papelboner is tough. It’s not the end of the world.
Thanks CB. I can’t believe FOX went back to car racing in the middle of Cano’s at-bat! Their incompetence has left me utterly speechless.
I hope Russo rips their coverage at least on Monday. that was pathetic.
once this line-up starts becoming consistent i think we will start scoring runs..every day it is different. we need Jeter back in there to settle things down, although then it sounds like A-rod will be taking a few days with the new baby.
Great at bats by Posada and Cano against Papelbon. I don’t mind if the result isn’t there sometimes, they battled and made him work.
On the other side, A-Rod had an abysmal at bat, swing at a ball that was so far out of the strike zone. In the grand scheme of things, today’s one game won’t make a huge difference, but I do think Girardi made a huge mistake pitching to Manny in the 6th.
Beckett looks strong, but his stamina is still not there. he faded pretty quickly. Would have been nice if we could have gotten his pitch count up and gotten to him earlier.
let’s not forget, as SJ44 has also said,
the goal for April is to tread water, play close to .500 baseball.
nobody is running away with the division in April and this is the toughest part of their schedule. It only gets easier.
Lots to be optimistic about.
Paul9,
in the blog’s defense, at least tonight, most of us are feeling pretty optimistic about the team despite a loss.
there will always be those who panic, but i think its the minority right now.
you know what kills me? all of you who accuse others of acting crazy when the Yanks lose or complaining or what not. give me a break…we are all fans, we are passionate about our team, a lot of times we are venting in the heat of the moment. when a yankee strikes out in a big spot with the game on the line, hell yeah i get pissed! when we lose i get frustrated. there is nothing worng with that. we are fans, we are passionate and we want to see our team win. cooler heads usually prevail but in the heat of the moment i think it is understandable.
the game was lost when giambiroid hit into a DP.
arod walk
giambi – DP
posada – single
cano – double
as you can see if giambi didn’t DP we would’ve score more runs.
The pitch that Moose made to Manny wasn’t the worst idea in the world, but things just don’t work out at times. Moose was just trying to get a first pitch strike over, and Manny decided to take a rip at it. It wasn’t such a bad idea to throw the pitch in that spot, because Ramirez does not swing at the first pitch very often. He will work a count, just like many of the Yankee and Red Sox hitters.
It’s very easy to see how Joba contributes to the yankee’s winning games when he comes out of the pen and pitches well.
What’s more difficult to consider is how having Joba in the pen hurts the yankees – it’s difficult to understand the “opportunity cost” of having him in the pen because it’s not something that can be witnessed.
But tonight was an example of part of the cost the Yankee’s are incurring by having joba in the pen.
Moose pitched a very good game. But when you’re facing a guy like Beckett very good may not be good enough and tonight it wasn’t.
You may need to only give up 1 run or 2. You may not be able to turn the game over to a guy like Brian Bruney. You need a starter who is going to give you 7-8 dominant innings to win these kinds of games.
These are also the kinds of games that you need to win in the playoffs.
You’re best chance of beating the sox when beckett pitches is to have your own shut down starting pitcher.
Right now the yankees have a guy who has as high a probability of being a shut down starting pitcher as any young pitcher who has come into the game in the past 5 years – that’s what Joba is.
It’s great to say well with him in the pen they can “shorten” the game.
But on many nights that opportunity to shorten the game never comes up because you don’t have a lead.
On nights when you’re facing beckett being able to shorten the game in the 7th or 8th inning isn’t good enough. You need to dominate the game from inning one.
It’s nice to have joba as a weapon – but if he doesn’t get into the game it’s a completely wasted advantage.`
That’s what they needed today. They needed a power pitcher to match Beckett inning for inning.
Joba needs to be starting games for them as soon as possible.
Post game will be on YES during half time of the Nets game.
Boston Dave – I agree. I wouldn’t have pitched to Manny. But it’s over and I’m sure next time Ramirez will not be the one to beat the Yanks.
I also agree with you that aside from the trolls, most here have a positive feeling. The pitching is really good and as soon as the bats get going (and they are showing signs of life) the Yanks should be well on their way to winning lots of games.
Problem FOX has is NASCAR is light years ahead of baseball in ratings. Makes me sad to think we live in a world where this is true, but I do.
Too many willing to give style points to a loss. A loss is a loss. The “good loss” theory is smoke filled coffe house crap. I disagree that Mussina was anything more than ordinary. Aside from Ortiz, who may well be going blind…in both eyes, anything Mussina threw in the strike zone got crushed. Couple nice plays, one in particular by Cano, kept him in the game despite his borderline ordinary stuff. Screw style points. Both teams won the game they were supposed to win. Tommorrow was the tossup game.
It was a solid game for both teams. While I would have liked to have won this one, I was glad to see Mussina pitch effectively again. I agree with most fans on the point that Manny should have been walked. I rather see Youkalis hit a grand-slam than to see Manny have his moment. Mussina was hit hard early in that inning and Girardi should not have listened to Mike. If you are going to pitch to him, you have to make him hit a bad pitch otherwise, a BB would not have been a bad choice there.
I expected more from A-Rod. The rain delay had to be harder on Papelbon. The “best” thing about this game was the weather. It strung out Papelbon in the last 2 innings a lot more than our bats did.
I’m not sure if its the right move but I would rather walk manny and face anyone else with 1st open. Any other hitter in that line-up is not as good as manny.
CB,
no arguments whatsoever, but the fact is, Joba is on an innings limit and we need to get more games like this out of Mussina until Joba is ready. It’s unfortunate for him that the schedule lined up with Beckett on the mound. More often than not, Mussina won’t be matched up against top 10 MLB pitchers.
Joba should have been brought in to get the last out in the 6th inning and then could have worked the 7th, as well. Worry about the 8th when it gets there. Girardi made the worst possible decision. Looks like NY has a new Clueless Joe. And these games do matter.
Looks like Ortiz is off the juice. Kinda like Cinderella after midnight. I hope the Red Sux enjoy having the singles hitting Minnesota Twin version of Ortiz.
Either way, I think it is clear the Yankees are now superior to the Red Sox. Not saying that can’t change with Lowrie or Masterson or someone else, but for now, as constituted, the Yankees are superior.
Carlos Pena hits his 6th HR. I guess last year was no fluke.
I can’t say that I feel good right now, despite Moose’s performance. I’m pretty steamed – though not all at Joe. Bruney didn’t have to give up that 4th run…..I don’t want to get on his case too badly as he’s pitched very well thus far and I can’t expect him to be perfect, but ouch, this hurt.
Still, Moose pitched just great – outstanding work from him, though his line will look mediocre. I know he worked hard and he’s been a mentor to the kids, so major props to him.
I don’t have a good feeling about tomorrow, though I’m sure I’m Phil’s biggest fan. Never mind that Matsuzaka is pitching lights out – it’s going to be very nasty tomorrow (brutal cold) and I don’t see Phil pitching well. Maybe it’s all these articles on him lately that are making me nervous (on the major board I frequent, people are basically saying that Phil is just not that good anymore; they are wondering what happened to his mechanics, his velocity and his command that made him the # 1 pitching prospect in the game), but I’m starting to have doubts myself and I hate that I am. I love Phil – he’s such a good kid in every respect; I hope he shows everyone what he’s got, but in 30 degree weather, I doubt it. If he has a bad performance, against the Sox no less…whew. All I can say is that I hope he doesn’t read the papers.
Usually after a loss to the Red Sox I’m pretty dismayed and second-guessing every decision. Walking Manny ? Who knows, Youkilis could have drawn a walk, RBI, Girardi was rolling the dice no matter which way he turned. Mussina did the best he could with what he brings to the table. Really can’t ask for anything more.
Looking forward to tomorrow night…
Gotta keep Fredo away from the hooch during games and on his own team’s blog!
these two teams look like they are really one in the same. relying on young pitching, hitters not hitting, injuries. yanks have an edge in the bullpen i believe.
oh, yanks are.132 with RISP..worst in baseball!
the redsox senator who ratted on everyone except the sox probably told ortiz in private to stop taking HGH and he will leave him off the report. Ortiz agreed but now he sucks.
Rough way to end the game. Hopefully they take the series tomorrow.
Kevin
“Either way, I think it is clear the Yankees are now superior to the Red Sox. Not saying that can’t change with Lowrie or Masterson or someone else, but for now, as constituted, the Yankees are superior.”
How is it “clear”? Boston has had the mental edge the last few seasons and with Arod getting literally embarassed by Papelbon tonight, not much seems to have changed. He was nervous and overmatched, which should never happen with his ability. How often is Manny overmatched?
Now if Hughes dominates tomorrow evening, then that would be significant. But if he’s throwing 90 mph fastballs, he won’t last very long, imo.
BD,
My point really was that it’s easy to see how Joba helps in the pen but it’s more difficult to see how having him in the pen hurts him.
This whole notion of his value lying in shortening the game completely ignores the opportunity cost of having him in the pen.
If Girardi had brought Joba into the game in the 8th inning and he set down the side in order people would be saying – look at what a weapon Joba is. He held the sox in a critical moment and gave them a shot to win, etc, etc.
But compared to starting a game, it’s relatively easy to pitch one good inning.
Look at tonight – hawkins came in and pitched that 8th inning and faced the heart of the sox order – and set them down 1-2-3.
If Joba does that it’s proof that he’s irreplaceable. But guys less talented than joba can be very effective in the pen.
Having Joba in the pen as a set up guy is like killing gants with a howitzer.
Betsy,
take it in stride. The Yanks aren’t a lock to win the division by any means… but I just don’t think there are any teams out there that are head and shoulders better than them.
No reason, in my eyes, to worry too much right now. Remember that if Hughes gives them avg #3 or #4 starter stuff (4.50ERA?) they will be in great shape.
When Joba hits the rotation in the summer, who is going to have a better top 3 than Wang, Pettitte, Joba? not very many.
Hey Jeff NJ… We just Lost! Let’s save our superior speech for tomorrow.
Hey CB I agree with you totally but how much of this matchup do you associate with that both rotations arent exactly set up right now? The matchup should be Beckett-Wang and that game would have been a gem. In theory Moose should be pitching against a Bucholtz type and that’s where he’ll keep up. That being said, if Joba isnt in the rotation and Moose has to pitch game 3 im going to be concerned.
Dont waste Chamberlain in the pen, 140-200 innings > 70 innings everytime.
baseball blows!
CB,
lol – great analogy.
you are absolutely right and I am confident that those that matter (the Yanks management) agree with you.
Somewhere, Trish struggles with reality.
“I hope the Red Sux enjoy having the singles hitting Minnesota Twin version of Ortiz.”
I think they would take the Minnesota version over the one they have now.
Also, about Joba – and CB, here I disagree with you – he’s not going to dominate right away. Ok, he’s not my favorite to be sure, but I believe I’m being objective. He’s going to struggle like every young pitcher does; he’s not going to dominate right away and I think people are going to be very disappointed if they expect him too. He’s going to have to learn to pitch his way around a lineup more than once and using all his pitchers. I know he’s kind of thought of as a god on the boards, but Joba is going to have his ups and downs, just like Phil and Ian.
“yanks are.132 with RISP..worst in baseball!”
And if age has caught up with Ortiz, then it very well might have caught up with Giambi, Damon, Posada, and even Jeter. When you lose your skills, they go quick, and Giambi and Damon appear beyond help.
Betsy,
Sabathia won the cy young last year with a 3.21 ERA. Even the best pitchers give up runs.
sure, if you expect Joba to have the ERA he has as a reliever, you will be disappointed.
but the points CB makes are all valid and Joba should be a very, very good starting pitcher.
You know Betsy, I come more from the old Chuck Knoblauch school of thought. There isn’t a game that the Yankees play that I don’t believe they will win. I am confident each and every time they take the field. More often than not, I end up being correct.
I don’t get steamed at anything they do, I don’t feel down when someone strikes out, I don’t have a fit if they lose a game. The value of really knowing who the Yankees are is in knowing that they will end up winning most of the time because they are a team built to win.
The first time I will get upset with a Yankee player is when that player is apparently giving less than his best effort. Other than that I know they want to win as badly as we want them to win.
I made a determination a long time ago that I didn’t have the right to demand of the NY Yankees any more than I demand of myself. Because they are paid more than I am doesn’t mean they are any less human or any less prone to have down times. If I don’t demand perfection of myself each and every time I approach a task, and if people around me are understanding of my having less than perfect moments in life, don’t I owe that to any people I purport to care about? I REALLY care about the Yankees.
I will never kick a Yankee player when he’s down. Never. I will never trash the team when they are not on top of their game. As long as the effort is there, they will always be my heroes and always have my utmost support and respect.
GO YANKEES!
“Joba should have been brought in to get the last out in the 6th inning and then could have worked the 7th, as well. Worry about the 8th when it gets there.”
I disagree. Part of the purpose of the beginning of any season is to see what you have. It’s to explore how the players on the roster can fill different roles.
It’s to see what they are capable of and how they can be used.
Bruney’s pitched very well so far. If Bruney’s on the roster then Girardi should explore how Bruney can be used to maximum advantage.
One player cannot fill every role in the bull pen and that’s what some people expect Joba to do.
He cannot be both the fireman and set up guy at once. Especially in a game in April.
The yankees think that Bruney has potentially turned a corner. That it’s a new Brian Bruney.
With Farnsworth – you know what you’re going to get. With guys like Bruney and Ohlendorf they don’t know yet.
They’ll never know unless they put them in those type of important situations.
The only way to determine what players are going to be able to do, especially players that you think have improved significantly, is to put them in positions where they can be tested.
Bruney’s appearance was mixed today. His first negatives. See how much you can push him while we’re still early in the season if he’s on the roster. After him they should see what Ohlendorf can do now.
That’s the only way to put the talent on the roster to it’s best use.
I can’t say I’m broken up about the loss.
Many more positives than negatives from a Yankee point of view.
For the folks who lose their minds after the losses, or predict the score for the next day (always a Yankee loss), can’t you do it somewhere else?
You aren’t showing folks what you know about baseball. You are showing what you don’t know.
They lost a one run game in a Moose v. Beckett matchup. They forced the Sox to burn Papelbon for his second 2 inning save in less than a week, and are set up fine for tomorrow night.
The season isn’t won or lost based on the results of today or tomorrow’s game.
Its a build up to the rest of the season.
The more you watch the Yankees, the more you can see they are going to be very good this season.
That is of course, unless you believe they aren’t going to hit all season.
If you truly believe that, and just aren’t venting after a close loss, then why bother watching the rest of the season?
This is going to be a good team. They have a few holes that need plugging. Unfairly, we are probably placing more on the shoulders of guys like Hughes and Kennedy than we should (given their relative inexperience) but, I am still jacked to see Hughes pitch tomorrow night.
Its a long season ahead and the more the Red Sox have to burn Papelbon up this early, the better it is for the rest of the AL East.
Their pitching depth is nowhere near what it was last season. Its going to come into play as the season goes on.
It’s been noted here tonight so I will only add my agreement: Moose pitched a good game. He made two mistakes to Manny and paid dearly for each. Name a pitcher who makes mistakes to Manny and doesn’t pay. The early Moose outings are cause for optimism. (Do I sound like Rebecca?)
Boston Dave, I’ve actually been very pleasantly surprised by the pitching…..certainly Wang (didn’t think he’d be THIS good) and Moose. Personally, Phil’s my favorite and I think I’m just worried because I see so many people giving up on him. Basically, I have a ton of faith in him, but it’s rough seeing him picked apart like a frog in biology class. He’s not throwing hard enough, his FB has no movement, his curveball is mediocre – that kind of thing. It all seemed so promising in the spring, whatwith Phil’s early arrival in Florida and him being healthy, but thusfar, it almost seems like people resent him for not being Cy Young right away. Coming into the season, I did expect Phil to be very good and to be the Yanks #3 (and solid, to boot) by the end of the year. I still think he will – I just don’t get what he’s done to have so many detractors.
As for Joba, I expect him to struggle just like every young pitcher does; he’s going to have his ups and downs.
It just rankles to lose a game against the Sox that they could easily have won, but to be fair, you, CB and others have made outstanding points. There’s a lot to be happy about with this team.
Cavefredo, quick, your prozac dose is long overdue! Now go and find your real team’s blog!
Hopefully Phil will be able to bounce back and have a quality outing tomorrow night. A big key will be whether his breaking ball is back on track. Maybe it will be there like it was in his first start against Toronto. He will have the element of surprise going for him against Boston, as this is their first view of him.
I don’t think CB or anyone else is suggesting that the starting pitcher Joba is going to put up sub-1.00 ERA numbers like the current reliever Joba. Of course Joba will struggle as a starter, just as he will probably struggle sometimes while he’s still coming out of the bullpen.
The point that’s been made over and over is that Joba MIGHT have the stuff to be a dominant starter, and most likely does have the stuff to at least be a solid starter. There will be growing pains getting from here to there, most likely, but it’ll be worth it if it works.
Ask yourself, why didn’t the Braves keep using John Smoltz as their closer? He was great at it and they’ve never adequately replaced him, yet they keep him in the rotation.
Hey, it’s a loss, but I hope Rebecca had as good a time at Fenway as I did.
I wore all my Yankee gear, and everyone was very nice. I sat right behind the Yankee dugout and got Cano to toss me a ball after they started putting the tarp on the second time. I guilted him into it after he had thrown one to an attractive young woman sitting next to me in a Sox hat.
Jeter is obviously bored on the bench. He tossed a couple of balls to fans as well, and ARod gave a young kid his sunglasses after the sun went away.
Go Phil Hughes!
John Flaherty’s take on the Ramirez at bat:
Joe and Moose discussed it on the mound. The young manager trusted the veteran pitcher. And Moose let Joe down with a terrible pitch that was right over the plate.
Boston Dave – Letting Carlos Pena go was one of Cashmans’ bad moves. He could have been playing 1st base for the Yanks.
BDave:
Sabathia may well be paying the price for some 250+ innings pitced in ’07. He had not hit 200 IP since 2002 and the extra 60 IP for a guy who does not keep himself in spectacular shape could be a problem this year.
Joba’s situation is obviously different, but he’s such a unique player that I think the Yanks are doing the wise thing.
the key for hughes is his fastball has to be faster than 90 mph.
Trisha, what you say is very valid and a great way to look at the Yankees. But when you compare the Yankees teams on the 2000′s to the Yankees teams of the late 90′s it is hard to feel the same way. I long for the days of Tino, Brosious, Bernie, Paulie O, Cone, amoung others. There was just something different about those guys. Ever sice Yanks started spending an enormous amount of money on FA it just hasn’t been the same. I love the Yankees, I will always love the Yankees. When I get mad at them it lasts a few minutes then it is over, but I miss the days of the passionate Yankees. I believe Girardi will bring some of that passion back, but in my opinion, it will never be the same.
Joba shouldn’t have been brought in the game in the 6th inning. Its not his role and it isn’t October yet.
If Girardi is to be second guessed, its pitching to Manny. That’s it.
Even with that, its not a clear cut move. Although, I would have walked Manny.
Its April. Please lets not lose sight of that fact.
Girardi has to see who has the guts to handle these “live bullet” situations.
You don’t get that chance in ST.
Bruney has pitched GREAT until today. Hawkins has been AWFUL until today.
Today, Hawkins may have given Girardi another option for the future with his performance today. That’s how you learn about your team.
Sometimes, its best to take a step back and look big picture.
Hard to see the big picture not being bright, provided that everybody stays healthy, for the Yankees this season.
Boston Dave,
I agree about Matsui’s hot bat. Looks like Joe was planning to have him pinch hit for Molina for that decisive at-bat in case Robbie survived Papelbon and got walked. That tells you how much confidence Joe has in Godzilla right now.
But like you and I and many others have said, lots to be excited about this year’s Yanks…fact that we’re even wondering which of Jorge or Matsui should get rest and both AG and Jose have done such a great job as back-ups…it’s the kind of “problem” many teams wish they could have. And with the great pitching we’re seeing? I say fuggedabouit, the future looks real bright!
Hey betsy to address Phil’s velocity: I was driving home from Boston yesterday during the game (had to watch the series in NY with my dad and not in Beantown lol) Susan Waldman was talking to Peter Gammons about Bucholtz, and it sounded as if they could have just as easily been talking about Phil. Gammons said that in his last stat Laptop was pitching 88-93 but that by May he will be throwing 97. Not to say that Phil will get it up that high just that he’ll get more velocity the warmer it gets. In KC despite the fact that he got touched up i thought that his fastball had pretty good life. I think he has been every bit as good as advertised, If only he’d break out that changeup a bit more.
“I cant believe we almost beat the Red Sox with Mike Mussina on the mound facing Beckett and Papelbon… awesome job by the Yankees. When Jeter comes back we will take em. Wang was much better than Beckett.”
And the sox were in yesterdays game with the yankees number one against bostons number 4/5.
Are all yankee fans this dumb?
“He’s going to struggle like every young pitcher does; he’s not going to dominate right away and I think people are going to be very disappointed if they expect him too.”
He is going to struggle. That’s why you have to have patience with young pitchers.
If you don’t have that patience then the yankees are never, ever going to have an elite, ace level pitcher.
If they don’t let a guy like Joba develop then they are never going to have a pitcher as good as becket.
That’s the way it works – you let a young guy get experience and learn and you hope that he blossoms.
Yankee fans like to say I wish we had an ace, I wish we had a guy like beckett.
Go look at what Beckett did his first year on boston. He was terrible for them. Think about the pitcher we saw today. Beckett’s first year with the sox he had an ERA of 5.01!!!
Why – beckett came to the AL and did what he did in the NL – he just kept trying to throw the ball as hard as possible when he got in trouble. And he got torched.
It was only after he got beat up in the AL did Beckett focus on learning how to pitch rather than throw. It was only after that struggle that he learned how to fulfill the potential that people had been talking about since he was 18.
But if he wasn’t allowed to struggle he’d never be the great pitcher he is now.
That’s what you have to do with young pitchers with talent – give them a chance and be patient when they struggle.
Is it a guarantee? No it never is with young pitcher. But there are probabilities. That’s what you have. And with Beckett there was always a high probability that he would figure it out and become a great pitcher.
With Joba the probability of him being a great starting pitcher is as high as it has been with any pitcher who has entered baseball over the past 5-7 years.
He’s that good. He throws an 80 fastball, 80 slider and a 70 curve ball.
There may be no other pitcher in baseball who throws 3 pitches of that kind of quality.
If you’re not going to take a chance on Joba being an ace then you’re going to have to keep living with not having a true shut down ace like beckett.
And the sox will continue to enjoy the advantage of having beckett.
“Boston Dave – Letting Carlos Pena go was one of Cashmans’ bad moves. He could have been playing 1st base for the Yanks.”
Lot of teams had him and let him go. Yanks, Boston, Texas, Oakland and Detroit all had him at some point.
Boston Dave, of course I’m not expecting Joba to have a .38 ERA as a starter, but he’s no different than any young pitcher – sure, he’ll have some great games, but also some bad ones and mediocre ones. This is the risk the Yankees took in going with youngsters, but I believe absolutely that it is the right thing. Joba belongs in the rotation and he and Phil will hopefully anchor it for a long time after Moose and Andy have gone.
Trish, great post. The Yankees may frustrate me, but IMO, that’s all part of the enjoyment of being a sports fan. What fan doesn’t get passionate about his team? The Yanks may not execute all the time (right now, a lot of the time), but they are sure playing their tails off. They always try hard – I don’t believe there is any quit in them. The problem is, I tend to have a football mentality; well, that’s good if you are watching football, but not baseball, lol.
Anyway, there are a lot of positives about this team and I’d rather concentrate on those than focus on the negatives.
Torre used to come close to intentionally losing games at the beginning of the season to prove points about the bullpen. The situation in the 6th inning was clearly (imo) the game deciding moment. You have to walk Manny in that spot. He’s not a guy like ARod, who will panic and literally freeze and choke in a big spot. And if you, for whatever clueless reason, want to pitch to the guy, then you bring in Joba and go after their best with the yanks best.
And giving up the hit on the fat 0-2 pitch to Youk was bad, but the nibbling and walks the next inning should convince everyone that it’s the same old Bruney.
Losing these April games can make a difference down the line in a close pennant race.
People have to be reasonable sometimes. Papelbon got to warm up and A-rod had to sit around for 2 hrs. I believe the advantage would go to the pitcher. That he swung at that first fastball, was a good thing. Unfortunately, he got under it and fouled it off. The second pitch was a nasty splitter and I doubt anyone could have hit it. The third pitch was outside and maybe he could have laid off, but not when someone is throwing 97 mph. Remember fans even the best of hitters make out 2 out of 3 times. Just think when Joba is throwing 97-98 and he strikes the hitters out. Just give credit to the Paps, he pitched his butt off and hopefully, will not be available for game 3.
“The young manager trusted the veteran pitcher. And Moose let Joe down with a terrible pitch that was right over the plate.”
I don’t think Girardi being a young manager had anything to do with the outcome. He was a catcher for a long time and pitching carefully to Manny and walking him if Moose got behind in the count was an OK strategy. Moose blew it, plain and simple. What does Girardi take away from this? Don’t know. I think he’ll still trust Moose but maybe next time it’s Moose v. Manny close game, 6th inning, Girardi holds up four fingers.
I blame that lose on Joe Girardi for not forcing Mussina into walking Manny?
Who knew Mussina was the decision maker around the Yankee clubhouse.
girardi’s either incredibly arrogant or incredibly ignorant. there’s absolutely no reason to pitch to manny there.
other than that, they played well and mussina pitched pretty well. this loss is on girardi.
also for benching matsui for damon. no excuse for that crap. just cause theyre facing the redsox doesn’t mean damon has to play.
CB,
I think Joba should be a starter at some point. Now? He belongs in the bullpen until July, IMO.
He’s not only a weapon in that role at the present time, the Yankees need to have his replacement lined up prior to him moving into the rotation.
As of right now, they don’t have that guy lined up yet.
Wang can match Beckett for “ace” status and Pettitte is as good, or better, than Dice-K.
The young guys cancel each other out and nobody is afraid of Tim Wakefield or Moose but, Moose is a better pitcher than Tim Wakefield.
The advantage the Yankees have over the Red Sox right now is bullpen and bullpen depth. Joba is part of that right now.
The Sox bullpen is going to get taxed much more this year than last year. We are already seeing signs of thata. That’s how much losing Schilling for the year hurts them.
Obviously, Joba’s bullpen stay won’t be forever.
But, until somebody steps up and takes on that 8th inning role, IMO, its the best way to utilize a segment of his innings for this season.
Hi Rob
Oh there’s no question that Phil’s velocity will be there when the warmer weather hits. That’s why I couldn’t believe on the boards the uproar about his velocity; power pitchers especially take some time getting to full strength and coming from Florida directly into cold, raw, rainy conditions doesn’t help them.
I really saw all I needed to from Phil against the Indians in the ALDS – that was a kid that belonged on the big stage. It’s depressing to think that so many have hopped off the bandwagon after one start (and then they go back and nitpick his very good start against the Jays). I kind of feel badly for Phil, but I guess I shouldn’t since he’s not having a pity party for himself.
I love the other board I post at, but I can’t take the negativity regarding Phil. Not only do I enjoy reading the knowledable posters on this blog about all things Yankee, but most are very much positive about Phil (even right after the game against KC) and it makes for enlightening reading. LOL I don’t think I can read more articles from Pagliarulo and some dude Carlos Gomez anymore.
It has nothing to do with arrogance or ignorance.
You execute the pitch, its a “great” move.
You don’t? Its second guessed. Its part of the game.
You can’t be afraid to make decisions. No manager bats a 1.000 with their decisionmaking.
Girardi will be fine. He’s learning his team at the same time they are learning him.
Comes with the territory.
Nothing is wrong with Hughes’ velocity.
He was throwing harder against the Blue Jays yet, nobody talks about that.
Its not about velocity. Its about location and execution of pitches.
Go back and look at his last start vs. KC.
There weren’t 3 hard hit balls against him in awful weather.
Hughes will be fine. Just have to be patient with him.
He’s the youngest starting pitcher in baseball. It takes time.
On a unrelated note, has anyone else read the analysis on Joba’s mechanics over at http://www.drivelinemechanics.com ? Interesting article but I really don’t what to take out of it.
Betsy,
dont forget that the media is always going to try to stir the pot and create controversy because that’s what sells. Bashing the Yankees tends to sell too.
most fans are spoonfed by the media and believe every word. Hughes will be fine.
Most people didnt even know Mike Pags had a website. He creates a stir about Phil and now he’s getting hits on his site. You have to filter that garbage out.
RobNY,
Did Gammons really say Buchholz will be throwing 97 in May?
it’s not a matter of girardi “learning his team.”
he’s pretty familiar with both mussina and ramirez. and if he’s not, then he’s not prepared.
nobody in their right mind pitches to manny ramirez there. it’s not like he snuck up on them. it’s manny ramirez.
sorry, we’re not going to agree on that. girardi doesn’t get a pass just because he’s not torre. if joe torre does that last year, this board is asking for his head on a spit.
i think girardi will be a fine manager. i think he’s probably good for this team in some respects. but in the sixth inning today, he did a poor job of managing his team. period.
for those who are interested,
‘The Empire Strikes Back’ is on Spike!
Hopefully that will be the theme tomorrow. Go Phil!
“also for benching matsui for damon. no excuse for that crap. just cause theyre facing the redsox doesn’t mean damon has to play.”
I rather have better D in the OF than a bat that can go cold against Beckett.
SJ44 and CB,
If you read the article that Fredo posted, I’d be interested in your opinions.
sorry not Fredo, the article that Frank posted
I think that’s part of what is going to give Phil Hughes his staying power Betsy. The guy has that makeup where I dont think he’ll get flustered by the hate. I am still fully on board his bandwagon and have every bit of faith that he’ll go toe to toe with Daisuke tomorrow. People forget how good Phil can be because they see how intense Joba has been.
Regarding Joba: as long as he can get to his 140-150 innings cap this year i’ll be fine. The only problem that i’ll have is if by pitching in relief for “too long” it will stunt his growth and not let him stretch out. That’s the main problem I have with all of these people who are saying “leave him in the pen all year and let him start next year.” Well when wont we need a dominant setup guy? So next year comes around and his innings cap is smaller because of a full BP year this year and its a vicious cycle that hamstrings his ability to be a SP.
Though if this new Wang is here to stay im not sure id be pretty confident sending him out for game 1.
Jesus Montero wins the game for Charleston with a hit in the 11th inning.
They are now 9-1 this season and Montero has 10 RBI in 10 games.
That kid is going to be special. May be coming sooner than even the Yankees expected.
It was a pick your poison situation Kasey. I agree that choosing to pitch to Manny wasn’t the best alternative.
However, if Bruney doesn’t give up the hit to Youkilis, its a tie game.
The 4th run ended up being the game winner, not runs 2 and 3.
Sj,
I completely agree that for a segment of the season he needs to be in the pen.
I just don’t want that segment prolonged more than is needed. They need a guy like beckett and they have one in the pen.
From Jim Baumbach on Newsday Blog
“I was in the Red Sox clubhouse and Francona said Papelbon will be given tomorrow night off, and he sounded as if he might sit Big Zero, I mean, Big Papi, too.”
and yes Dave, those were his exact words”While he is throwing in the low 90s now he should be hitting 97 by mid may.” I couldnt believe my ears.
kasey, Mike was supposed to nibble when pitching to Manny. And if it got to a hitters count just walk him. Mike threw a bad pitch bottom line. Mike felt more comfortable pitching to Manny, than pitching to Youk. You have to go with what your vet pitcher tells you.
ltyf, you make some good points about A-Rod’s at bat. I guess Papelbon deserves some credit. I thought the stop-start stop start would hurt him more than it did.
Dave,
I yawn through pitching mechanics stories on the web.
Keith Law said it best yesterday about them. They are meaningless.
He hates Joba’s mechanics. Big deal.
If he was a GM, and had the chance to trade for him, guess what?
He would in a NY minute.
Brandon (supporting the new movement “Alex being Alex”) April 12th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
“also for benching matsui for damon. no excuse for that crap. just cause theyre facing the redsox doesn’t mean damon has to play.â€
I rather have better D in the OF than a bat that can go cold against Beckett.
——–
he sure flashed some great D today…… NOT!
Dave,
One last thing re: Joba’s mechanics.
The guy holds velocity and location later than almost any other pitcher in the game right now and he’s only 21.
Hard for me to have issues with his mechanics when he can do that.
I will say this about the “nibble” comment.
If you are going to nibble, you are better off walking Manny, IMO.
Lesson learned and you move onto the next game. All you can do.
SJ44,
thanks – I am a rookie when it comes to understanding pitching mechanics at that level of detail. Of course he uses Mark Prior and BJ Ryan to help his argument and I have no way of knowing how accurate an article like that is.
When you have a great pitcher on the mound you let them make the decision on if they want to pitch to the batter or not..Moose is not that. I do not care how well Moose was pitching Manny just hit a 500 ft homerun off of him there is no way you pitch to him. Moose is an old fart now, that throws 80 mph he needed to just suck it up and walk him. Susan said the thinking was for him to nibble and play with him and then walk him if it didnt work out. That was pathetic..I dont want to hear Youk is a good hitter also, he is no where near what Manny is. Let the animal beat you.
SJ44,
no question… you dont nibble against manny. you dont nibble against Youkilis either though. He was going to have to throw strikes to one of them.
tough spot for Moose.
CB, I think in two years the Yanks will have two pitchers reconized throughout the Game as a Beckett, or a Santana…Their names are Hughes and Chamberlain……
The proper way to have pitched Manny in that AB was to go back inside against him. That’s where Moose messed up.
Manny KNEW Moose didn’t have the onions to go inside again after he hit the HR off him.
So he just waited for the ball middle-away and stroked it to right center.
The proper move, and its something Eiland and Girardi have emphasized with ALL of the pitchers this year, is to go inside more.
Moose has to have the onions to go right back inside on Manny and execute better pitches in there.
For him to survive, he has to change that part of his pitching pattern.
Manny knew what was coming and he won the battle.
Bust him in, and you don’t have to throw 95 to tie someone up, and you give yourself a better chance to prevail in that situation.
I’ll yield the floor to SJ44 when it comes to interpreting these pitching mechanics issues, because, to be honest, a good deal of it goes over my head. You can’t argue with results though, and I think we’ve all seen that with Joba.
SJ44,
it wouldnt surprise me if Manny knew exactly how that AB was going to play out before he stepped in the batter’s box. you’re probably right about needing to go back inside.
CB, you’re so right about having patience, but I honestly think that most Yankee fans just don’t have any. Let’s use Phil as an example because he’s projected to be an ace and because there seems to be a bit of an uproar over him. I see absolutely no patience with Yankee fans with Phil, absolutely none. This is a kid who almost threw a no-hitter and then came up aces in the biggest game of the year last year – all at 21 years old. IMO, that’s phenomenal. Yankee fans SAY they love their kids – that they can’t wait for Joba and Phil to develop into front of the rotation starters – but what they really mean is they want that development now.
You, SJ44 and some other very knowledable posters have had to talk people off ledges regarding Phil. You can see that some posters (and this is true on other message boards I post that) now don’t think he’s going to be anything special. I don’t get that line of thinking. Dwight Gooden came up and went 25-4 as a twenty-something, but that’s a freaky performance and he never did as well again. Felix Hernandez is thought of as an ace-type pitcher, but he’s had his struggles as well. It’s these struggles that make great pitchers great. I mean, I really feel like any performance, good or bad, is a learning experience for these guys. They will soak up the information like sponges, process that information and use it to their advantage in the future, future being the key word. Fans want what they want and they want it now. Well, Tommy Glavine went 0-11 (or something like that) in his rookie year and wasn’t Roy Halladay sent down after his no-hitter?
As to Joba, I think fans will have more patience with him than Phil…..but again, there will be a loud minority that wonders what’s wrong with him when he gives up runs. That’s really their problem, though. Part of the reason why I didn’t want the Yanks to trade Phil for Johan(besides him being my favorite of the kids) is because I wanted to enjoy his journey in the big leagues. Where is the enjoyment in just purchasing someone else’s ready made product? I wanted to see Phil grow and develop so that, should he become an ace, I could take pride in the fact that he did all that in pinstripes. It’s fun to see young kids mature into top notch players and I would have been deprived of that enjoyment if the trade had happened.
The Yankees knew what they were doing by not making the Santana trade and they know what they are doing by putting Joba where he belongs, in the rotation. This rotation is going to be pretty scary in a couple of years.
“he sure flashed some great D today…… NOT!”
Moose = Flyball pitcher
Damon = more better OF than Damon
Beckett vs Matsui = in 14 ABs .214/.267/.357
YEH that’s what I thought keep it moving
————–
SJ thanks for the Jesus update, he is a beast in the making.
God, Giambi is horrible. Think we should pick up his $22 million option for 2009? What a joke. He’s the worst 1B in the AL.
Pizz,
the stop-start-stop for Papelbon might not have hurt him today… but its possible that (as CB keeps pointing out), by season’s end Papelbon will feel the effects of some early overuse.
lose the battle, win the war
“They lost a one run game in a Moose v. Beckett matchup.”
So what? Boston lost a Bucholtz vs Wang matchup.
Has it really come down to moral victories for the Yankees now? People are really satisfied with losing close ballgames? And didn’t th horrific start last season that cost the team the division title teach you that these April games do count,and you just can’t throw them away with goofy experimenting in the bullpen?
The Yanks have done nothing to show that they’re going to be any better than last season (or worse, for that matter). And if Hughes stinks it up again, and displays little velocity in doing so, then I hope some of you will be prepared to give a realistic assessment of what he is capable of.
Betsy,
nothing you can do about those who panic too early and too often.
I understand that Yanks fans are dying for a title and a little antsy about it, but for those who can see the forest for the trees, the future looks pretty bright.
Dave,
Pitching mechanics talk is the rage de jour on the ‘net.
Problem is, in many ways, its an inexact science.
Take Buchholz for example. Gammons raves about his mechanics.
Yet, he has had shoulder problems throughout his minor league career. How can that be if he has “great” mechanics?
The answer….He doesn’t have great mechanics. He puts an awful lot of strain on his shoulder with that over the top delivery. The slightest change and the delivery brings too much shoulder torque, leading to his ailments.
I personally think Buchholz is going to have a hard time piling up innings. So much strain on his shoulder, and he doesn’t have a big frame to withstand it.
He has great stuff. The question is, will it be sustainable into the later innings of games? Time will tell.
Joba on the other hand, has only had issues with his arm when he was heavy. Since he has lost 70 pounds, his arm has been sound. Nary an issue and his stuff remains electric longer than any young pitcher I have seen in years.
Doesn’t mean he can’t breakdown. We just haven’t seen evidence of it in the past 3 years (counting his college days) since he made his commitment to better fitness.
Anyone else sick of Damon?
Gardner is tearing up AAA and I hope he is up with Damon sent packing.
“by season’s end Papelbon will feel the effects of some early overuse.”
I’ve been saying that for some time, you look at his baseball cube stats prior to the last 2 seasons his arm was abused and the last 2 seasons his IP has reduced. I don’t see him handling that type of work load this season, they just don’t have the depth there.
The fact of the matter is, this was a very winnable game that was flushed down the commode by Girardi.
A. You do not, you do not, I say you do NOT pitch to Manny in that spot in the 6th, no way. Did I mention you do not.
B. What is up with Cano, he has no plate disciple what so ever. They really need to work with him on recognizing spitters in the dirt, that was a horrendous at bat to end the ballgame.
C. What the H$$L was Damon doing in the lineup instead of Hideki?
D. They may have been pinch hitting for Gonzalez with Hideki, Molina is the hottest batter on the team, that would have been wasteful to pinch hit for him.
It really tells you where Farnsworthless is in the pecking order when he doesn’t pitch in the bottom of the 6th.
And finally, the Single A Charleston Riverdogs have the best single collection of legitimate prospects on one team that I can ever remember the Yankees having.
I count at least 10 prospects that I believe will either eventually play for the Yankees or end up playing for someone in the Bigs:
P – Betances, Heredia, McAllister
C – Montero, Romine
SS-Angellini
CF-Almonte
1B-Laird
3B-Suttle
2B-Snyder
Potential Major League Allstar level players: Almonte, Montero, Romine, Angellini, Betances
SJ44,
it would seem that Buchholz, with his ‘whippier’ arm action, would have a harder time with location and repeating his delivery.
is there a prospect in Boston that Gammons doesn’t love?
“Gardner is tearing up AAA and I hope he is up with Damon sent packing.”
can he go through atleast 100 ABs before you write him off and put Brett on the pedestal ?
DEE:
Your statement that the Sox pitchers “own” Rodriguez is an odd one. What are you talking about, exactly? It seems to me, you are making a lazy leap based on some notion you have of ARod as a loser.
The facts tell another story, perhaps you’d like to consider the following before making such a statement and using a word like “own.”
AROD 2007 vs. Boston:
.294 BA; .415 OBP at Fenway
AROD 2007 vs. Boston “ace” Beckett:
.385 BA in 13 ABs
AROD 2007 vs. Boston closer Papelbon:
2 of 3, .667 BA
And DEE, here’s another thing you ought to know, being a Yankee fan and all:
before today’s game, we won 8 of our last nine against Boston. Since Beckett has been a Red Sox, the Yankees as a lineup had hit .304 BA (2006) and .303 (2007) before today.
And another thing DEE: ARod’s stats last year against the Boston’s top pitcher and its closer – whom you think “own” him – and our success against Boston last season, were not mutually exclusive.
Sometimes it’s worthwhile to do a little investigating before saying a pitcher or pitchers “own” a batter; especially when that batter has had recent OVERWHELMING success against the pitchers in question.
SJ44, it’s hard to believe Phil is 21. I didn’t realize until a few days ago that he’s the 2nd youngest player in baseball………..He’s not worried, Dave Eiland isn’t worried, Brian Cashman’s not worried, Joe Girardi’s not worried, so why should fans be worried?
Boston Dave, lol – Mike Pagliarulo is the one who recommended Igawa. How’s that worked out? Pags was a pretty good third baseman, but I don’t recall him ever taking the mound for the Yankees (even with their lousy pitching back them), so it’s hard to take the guy seriously. You’re right about the media trying to stir the pot, although oddly enough, most of the media actually didn’t make a big stink about Phil’s start; they know the kid is good. I guess anyone on the internet can post anything. I could come out with a treatise on why Joba is going to lose velocity and throw at 88 MPH next year and probably people would take me seriously!
patience Rodney
with that logic, we’d need to trade half of the Yanks hitters
hopefully Gardner can bring some energy and value to the team this season, but dont rip Damon yet.
Betsy,
whats interesting is that, like you said, most people think Phil is going to be pretty good.
but as soon as someone posts something to the contrary, the yankee-haters flock to it and feel happy about it.
let them be misled. let them be surprised.
Here’s an interesting article on Phil – sounds like he’s still got some affection for Fenway, but hey, who can blame him?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04.....f=baseball
If the Yanks had traded him, I might have put Sox memorabilia up on the wall, lol
Brandon,
You are violating your own rule about engaging with trolls! lol
Betsy,
You are spot on. Many Yankee fans, sadly the group I call the “Post-96 crowd”, folks who became Yankee fans at around the time Charlie Hayes caught the last out of the ’96 series, have ZERO patience with young players.
Its not entirely their fault. They listen to their heroes, like Mike Francesa and Michael Kay, who have similar views.
From “Melky Cabrera can’t play CF”, a CLASSIC Francesa blunder, to “Phil Hughes doesn’t impress me” a CLASSIC Michael Kay blunder, to the now, “Joba should stay in the bullpen” (from both guys) nonsense, its very difficult for younger fans to really learn about the game.
Everything is kneejerk and reactionary and most young fans just parrot what they hear on sports radio. Or play the “stat game”. Quoting stats without context to make points.
Look at some of the comments in here tonight as an example of how folks go over the top over one April game.
The Yankees are making the right move going with these younger guys. Its not even a question of it being the right move.
To that end, you have to have patience as these guys navigate their way through the season.
There will be high moments and low moments but you can’t lose faith. They have too much talent not to be good if they stay healthy.
Look at how much Melky has improved in the last 2 years, for example.
As far as Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain, do folks realize all 3 guys are YOUNGER than Boston’s “young” pitchers Lester and Buchholz?
Its amazing that these guys are even here right now, let alone contributing.
The Yankees went the “Francesa Way” every year from the 2001 off-season until this past off-season. Aside from spending 1.2 BILLION in salary, what did it really accomplish in the long run?
IMO, developing your own, plus making intelligent FA moves, is the way to build a team for the long haul. That’s why patience will be needed this season.
Its the right way to go and so far, I like what I see.
Tim, there’s a hell of big difference having a few good games at AAA and then doing it in the Bigs….Yankees need Johnny Damon to be successful this season….There’s a 150 games remaining…
SJ44 I just realized that
I think SJ44 is right on with that strategy – especially in developing your own pitchers. The Yankees look like they’ve come up with a pretty good blueprint this time.
Even if the Yanks want to cut their payroll and keep a fresh balance of young guys and vets, they’ll still have a huge $$$ advantage in the foreign free-agent markets (ex. Jesus Montero). If they spend wisely in that department (where there is no luxury tax), they are going to be in good shape.
It’s amazing that people are still bashing Cashman.
A month from now, when Damon and the rest are hitting, let’s re-visit who some want to DFA on April 12.
Knee jerk, emotional reactions get nowhere.
Thank God some of you aren’t the GM of the team.
As if the Yanks would get Justin Upton in return for Damon anyway. Of course the same people who want to DFA or dump these guys probably do think they can get premier young talent in return.
Damon got robbed out of 2 hits today on good catches in left and right.
Cano had 2 hits today and a great AB (10 pitches) against Papelbon in the 9th.
Giambi won yesterday’s game with the go ahead HR.
Arod also homered yesterday.
Yet, some fans are upset at the above players.
David Ortiz is 3-43 this year. How many Red Sox fans do you think are calling for him to be DFA’ed?
Sometimes, its better to call it a night and go to bed rather than posting something so emotional and illogical.
The sun will shine tomorrow and the Yankees aren’t “done” for the season based on the outcome of today’s game.
Or tomorrow’s for that matter.
Hey bodhisattva,
Relax.
I’m a Yankee fan through and through and can’t stand the Sox. But Arod was overmatched by Papelbon at the last at-bat. It was pretty anti-climatic especially after we waited so long with the rain delay anticipating the dramatic Arod-led rally (yes that’s what a fan would hope). But it was just one game and one at bat, we move on. Arod will have another MVP season and we will beat Boston based on what we’re seeing from our very promising pitching staff so far.
Go back to read my posts…you make it sound as if I was bashing Arod and rooting for the Sox. Next time don’t try to pick on your fellow fan’s genuine post-game reaction with your upper case and fancy stats to try to earn street creds around here. It’s not high school and it’s not a popularity contest.
To those who want Damon traded, if he does get traded, who bats leadoff and plays left field every day? Melky isn’t ready to leadoff, and Matsui’s knee is too balky to play left every day. And Brett Gardner just doesn’t hit well or get on base enough.
Dee/bodhisattva,
Papelbon has overmatched most of the guys he’s faced thus far. Just as Mariano has, JJ Putz, etc…
If you get a hit once in 4 AB’s against these guys, it’s something to be pleased about.
ARod didnt get him this time. He has before, he will again.
As long as we can all root for ARod the next time he gets a shot, no need to argue.
Everyone saying we should DFA Betemit or send Damon packing or bench Giambi – please get a clue. It’s the frickin second week of the season.
Thanks Boston Dave. I never come here looking to pick a fight, I enjoy my fellow fans’ input and hearing the experts’ take on things like SJ, CB etc. But when someone tries to pick on me unfairly, I defend myself.
No prob Dee. I hear ya.
I am getting better myself at figuring out who knows what they’re talking about (or at least is capable of decent discussion) and who is just trying to stir trouble.
Yeah for the most part there are many great people and great fans around here. Pete’s running a great blog and we’re all pretty fortunate.
SJ44, I listen to M&MD even though they drive me through the roof. I have no problem with them believing that Joba should be in the bullpen (listen to how ma