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Shameful end to the 21 saga

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 16, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

LaTroy Hawkins told Scott Miller from CBS Sports.com that he will change numbers today. Bowing to the wishes of “fans” who have been booing him (and worse), he will go to No. 22 today.

Hawkins didn’t want to talk about it last night when I asked him, politely asking not to be interviewed. He clearly wants this whole mess behind him.

Tyler Kepner of the Times says it well in his blog today: Yankee fans were not classy.

I agree. Paul O’Neill was a good player but not one worthy of having his number retired. At some point, the Yankees have to have some standards. Beyond that, Hawkins wanted 21 to honor Roberto Clemente.

Hawkins is a good person who has established himself as one of the leaders in the clubhouse. He is also a well-respected player around the game. What do you suppose he would tell a potential free agent who asks his opinion of playing for the Yankees?

O’Neill should have told fans to give Hawkins a break. Is that how you honor one man, by making another feel miserable?

Nice legacy for No. 21 now. It’s not retired but it can’t be used because some fans are jerks. If it does get retired now, it won’t be for the right reasons.

Be careful what you wish for.

UPDATE, 4:03 p.m.: People seem really fired up about this issue, which is great. O’Neill was a heck of a player and you have every right to love a player.

A few points:

1. The Yankees can retire a number at any point. Several players wore No. 3 after Babe Ruth. If the Steinbrenners decide today, tomorrow or in five years they want to retire No. 21, they can.

2. You can’t retire numbers based on “emotional leadership” or because somebody was a member of great teams. It has to be for individual accomplishment. David Cone was a pretty emotional guy who played on great teams. You want to retire his number? Beyond that, kicking water coolers and throwing your bat isn’t leadership. If you think other players watch that and get inspired, you know nothing about baseball. This isn’t football.

3. I have (so far) received four e-mails and had to delete four posts that were over-the-top racist in nature. I suspect racism is at the core of this for some fans, which is a shame.

4. You want to boo Hawkins, go right ahead. That’s your right. Just know that the other players are cringing. How does booing a player in 2008 honor a player who retired in 2001? It doesn’t.

UPDATE, 7:03 p.m.: Here’s what Paul O’Neill told the AP about the situation:

“What can I say? The fans have always been unbelievable to me there. I don’t really know how to explain it. It makes you feel good that the fans still think of you as wearing that number.”

It makes you feel good that the fans booed another Yankees? Interesting take.

Joe Girardi: “I obviously understand the feelings for Paul O’Neill because I was here, and I know what he meant to me as a teammate and what he means to me as a friend, and what he means to the people of New York, Yankees fans. But LaTroy was trying to honor Roberto Clemente, someone he looked up to. It was nothing against Paul O’Neill. I think LaTroy has the ultimate respect for Paul O’Neill. It’s a tough spot.”

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892 Responses to “Shameful end to the 21 saga”

  1. Matt from LI April 16th, 2008 at 8:56 am

    This is pathetic and I completely agree PA. I don’t/won’t understand the big deal over wearing 21. A lot of fans overreacted with this and it is a shame. It is a number, people need to build a bridge and get over it. Hawkins seems like a positive teammate, absurd that the fans acted this way because of what number was on his back.

  2. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 8:58 am

    Not for nothing but shouldn’t the captain have spoken to the “fans” and told them to cut it?

  3. LibertyBelle April 16th, 2008 at 8:59 am

    What a strange situation… especially shameful because of the reason that Hawkins wanted to wear 21.

  4. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 9:00 am

    One of the things that absolutely irks me is that it will be written and reported that Yankees fans made Hawkins switch — and yes, they did — BUT it was not a majority of the fans; it was a small, vocal minority. Those fans have given ALL of us a bad name in this episode.

    I went back and read a story (NY Daily News) that was written when Hawkins decided to take 21. He originally would have liked #32, his number since high school days, but that number has already been retired by the Yankees. His mom requested he take 22, but then 21 became available, and he jumped at the chance to be able to wear Clemente’s number. I’m sorry, but I don’t see his crime here.

    I know many of us have spent a lot of time discussing such a seemingly minor issue. But to me it is not a small issue. The larger issue is that a bunch of bullies were able to force an innocent person to yield to their demands. Part of me wishes that Hawkins had the fortitude to withstand the nonsense coming from the stands, but I understand that he has a job to do, and that “nonsense” would absolutely have an effect on his ability to do his job – not an easy one, by the way, in baseball.

    So, for all intents and purposes, these so-called “fans” have forced the issue and made #21 an albatross around the neck of any player who dares “disrespect” Paul O’Neill by wearing it. It is effectively retired until this group deems another player “worthy” of wearing it, or a player comes along who can withstand the heckling and thumb his nose at the mob.

  5. ItalianGreco April 16th, 2008 at 9:01 am

    Well said, Pete!

  6. george April 16th, 2008 at 9:01 am

    well, it’s a sport for the fans, not for the beat writers. Yankee fans love Paul O’Neill. they’ve made that abundantly clear..

    Pete i don’t think described it accurately – Hawkins was getting the Paul O’Neill chant because of the uniform #. he was getting booed because he pitched like Felix Heredia – the boos may have been a bit louder because of #21, but he could have been waring number 99 and still get booed w/those performances

  7. Mark Alan April 16th, 2008 at 9:02 am

    [I posted this at the end of an earlier thread, but it is my take on 21-Gate.]

    If a player’s number cannot be retired in part for sentimental reasons (fan favorite), why is #15 retired? Thurman Munson was not a Hall-of-Famer. He’s not the best catcher in Yankees history.

    His number was retired because of his tragic death.

    I’m not saying retire Paulie’s 21; rather, I’m pointing out that it could be retired because there are no hard-and-fast rules.

  8. mark April 16th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Well said.

  9. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 9:04 am

    I also agree with Pete’s statement that if #21 is retired in the future, it will have a different meaning because of this incident.

  10. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 9:04 am

    george he was booed on opening day. He didn’t even throw a pitch.

  11. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (aka Joe) April 16th, 2008 at 9:05 am

    I’m a huge O’Neill fan, and I agree that he should not have his number retired, but in my opinion O’Neill is much more deserving than both Reggie Jackson and Billy Martin.

  12. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 9:05 am

    George,

    People were booing Hawkins on OPENING DAY during introductions – before he had even thrown a regular season pitch for the Yankees. He wasn’t even given a chance!

  13. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:05 am

    This was a classless situation in part by the fans. I really grew to disrespect Paul O’Neil in this situation as well. He was interviewed on the second game of the year by Kim Jones on YES and had a chance to address the situation when asked. He made no reference to there being no problem with it, he didn’t say that the fans should lay off. He simply said it was strange to see someone else wearing what was his number.

    Let’s face it, Hall Of Very Good is O’Neil’s place. He did mean a lot to the team when he was here, but that doesn’t mean that he has earned the right to have a retired number. If you have a problem with it, don’t boo the player wearing the number. Write a letter to the ownership and tell them you have an issue.

    It’s a sad state of affairs when players have to take so much heat for absolutely useless things. This is one of those things that makes me look down my nose at my fellow fan. If you boo’d, you are simply a bad fan. You are likely the same person who boo’d Alex Rodriguez. Shame on you.

  14. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 9:05 am

    “rather, I’m pointing out that it could be retired because there are no hard-and-fast rules.”

    Team captain who died untimely during the peak of his Yankee career and free agent signing in his prime that won a bunch of championships here hugely different.

    “Hawkins was getting the Paul O’Neill chant because of the uniform #. he was getting booed because he pitched like Felix Heredia”

    Bull. He was getting booed before he even pitched.

  15. LibertyBelle April 16th, 2008 at 9:05 am

    Well that doesn’t seem accurate, George. Hawkins was getting grief about the number before he even threw a pitch.

    Besides, it seems like a decent amount of fans think this is ridiculous, didn’t care if Hawkins kept 21, and still like O’Neill.

  16. longtime April 16th, 2008 at 9:06 am

    I wonder how many fans would boo if Joba decided to wear 21

  17. josh April 16th, 2008 at 9:06 am

    i agree, it was pretty classless all around.. but he hasnt done anything since opening day to win over anyone

  18. george April 16th, 2008 at 9:08 am

    Doreen’s right – the media always exaggerates the boos to make it sound like 50,000 people are booing, regardless of the facts.

    example 1: i was at the April Red Sox-Yankees game a few years back when Mariano blew a save. there some boos, but it was a very tiny minority. the papers made it sound like everyone booed.

    example 2: A-Rod in 2006. similar thing – he was getting boos, but it was almost always, if not always, a minority. once the boos started getting the usual media obsession, i noticed that a lot of fans would get up and cheer whenever A-rod got up. that showed the true feeling of most fans; but that response never got mentioned in any media piece i saw/heard/read.

  19. Anthony April 16th, 2008 at 9:09 am

    I mean… I feel bad for Hakwins but he should have just stuck with #22. Changing to #21… it just makes him seem clueless what that jersey # means to Yankees fans. I understand he was honoring Clemente and as a Puerto Rica, I think that’s great. But on the Yankees… to be and others #21 will be Warriors #

  20. Relaunch April 16th, 2008 at 9:10 am

    Because Jeter isn’t the leader that everyone thinks he should be. He doesn’t really go out of his way to speak (ie: Arod). The more vocal leader is Jorge.

  21. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 9:10 am

    Longtime -

    I don’t think they would NOW, because Joba would probably pass their “worthiness” test, but I think if he wore it BEFORE people were impressed by him, they probably would have booed him, too.

  22. george April 16th, 2008 at 9:10 am

    LibertyBelle, definitely – by some fans. but if Hawkins pitched well, he wouldn’t have been booed.

    he may still have gotten some Paul O’Neill chanting regardless – i think u have to separate the chanting from the booing.

  23. CountryClub April 16th, 2008 at 9:10 am

    It is not Derek Jeter’s job, or any player’s job for that matter, to tell the fans what to do. Every time the fans do something that other people don’t like you get a bunch of posters asking why Jeter didnt say anything. Give it up. And speaking of the fans, the game is played FOR the fans. If people didnt go to the games there would be no baseball. If those same people who support the team dont want someone wearing # 21, then so be it. I dont agree with them booing the guy for wearing the number, I want to make that clear. But the fans spoke and they got what they wanted. Now we dont have to hear about this for the rest of the year. Thank God!

  24. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 9:11 am

    george I maintain at that Sox game it was soxs fans booing for the most part not Yankee fans.

  25. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 9:12 am

    “i agree, it was pretty classless all around.. but he hasnt done anything since opening day to win over anyone”

    I have a problem with the mindset that he needed to “do something” to win fans over.

  26. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 9:12 am

    CountryClub

    Than why did he tell the fans to lay off Jason?

  27. Jerry April 16th, 2008 at 9:12 am

    I’m sure these clowns will still do the same chant if Hawkins gives up a walk or hit… He pitched a scoreless inning at a game against Tampa last week and heard it. What is wrong with people?

  28. Global Warming April 16th, 2008 at 9:12 am

    Yankee fans were not classy but than again it was outright DUMB of the organization and/or Hawkins for using 21.

    You don’t want to retire it? Fine, but don’t have somebody wearing it while O Neil is still employed and in the hearts of most Yankee fans.

    Common sense would like a word with you.

  29. longtime April 16th, 2008 at 9:12 am

    The big issue here is Paulie should have said something not the captain. No class by Paulie

  30. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 9:13 am

    “But the fans spoke and they got what they wanted.”

    No. A small, LOUD minority of fans spoke and got media attention because it makes DRAMA. And then they got what they wanted.

  31. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 9:14 am

    “he may still have gotten some Paul O’Neill chanting regardless – i think u have to separate the chanting from the booing.”

    The booing started BEFORE HE EVER PLAYED A GAME. So, clearly, they are in no way separate. And he’d had a good spring, so you can’t assert that fans who’d been following spring training were getting on him for a bad performance thus far.

    The booing was undeniably related to the number.

  32. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 9:15 am

    Pavano can’t rehab his image
    April 16, 2008
    BY LISA KENNELLY

    Check out this article.
    “Carl’s a 1-2 starter,” O’Connell said. “Those guys don’t grow on
    trees. Those guys are very rare, 200-inning guys are very rare in this game, and they’re the ones that make the money. And he did it two years in a row, before he got hurt, and I’m sure he’s going to do it again.”

    Mindful that his future is at stake as the year winds down, Pavano said he’s being very careful about his rehabilitation.

    “I look at this as laying the foundation for the rest of my career,” he said. “I’m 32 years old, hopefully I can get five or six more years out of it. I’m laying the foundation for the rest of my career so I’ve got to get this right.

    “This is not something that I plan on rushing just to get back and prove that I can get back and be healthy. I want to feel good about myself when I get back, not just get back.”

  33. JohnnyLab April 16th, 2008 at 9:15 am

    Ahhhh give it 10 years… then a new group of fans come in and O’Neil gets remembered as a good player… and those annoying fans quiet down…

  34. CountryClub April 16th, 2008 at 9:16 am

    OK, Relaunch. If Jorge is the real leader of the team, as many people state in here all the time, why didnt HE say anything to the fans? Because it’s not the players jobs to tell the fans what to do. And Arod’s problem is that he used to talk too much. That’s how he got himself in so much trouble. You’ll notice that since his last media blowup in 2007′s spring training that he’s said very little. And now he’s not all over the paper’s because of every little comment. He finally learned, I hope.

  35. gargoyle April 16th, 2008 at 9:16 am

    O’Neill didn’t exactly do anything to defuse this situation which is pretty low as far as I’m concerned.

  36. RB April 16th, 2008 at 9:18 am

    this is such a shame. I am embarressed as a yankee Fan that other fans booed him and made him feel this uncomfortable that he is changing his number. Totally disgusting. Sorry LaTroy

  37. Will April 16th, 2008 at 9:19 am

    I don’t think #21 should be retired and don’t really care that Hawkins choose to wear it, but if fans feel strongly about the number, why is that classless? Pete and others are making it seem like he received death threats or had objects hurled from the stands. Personally, I would like the Yankees to be more selective with the numbers they retire, but that honor is not soley an indication of how great the player was, but also how beloved they were by THE FANS. So, if the overwhelming sentiment of Yankee fans demands that #21 be retired, I won’t lose sleep.

    Also, I have a feeling that if Joba or Hughes was wearing #21 no one would have had a problem. Hawkins wasn’t a popular signing anyway, and he isn’t likely to be here beyond one year, so I can definitely see not wanting him to wear a number with such meaning to the fans.

  38. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:20 am

    This was O’Neil’s responsibility as a person who still identifies himself a part of the organization in some manner. He does color for the team’s network, he identifies himself and his career as a Yankee. If he would want to support this team, he would have come out and asked the fans to respect the memory of Roberto Clemente and to give Hawkins all the support.

    He didn’t do that.

    Don’t look at Jeter, Posada… Don’t look at Rivera, Girardi or anyone else. Look to the man himself. Bad job Paulie.

  39. CountryClub April 16th, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Jennifer, I cant speak for Jeter. But my guess would be that he spoke up for Giambi because he wanted to, not because he felt the need to do so as the captain. As we’ve all learned over the past few years, the players on the team love Giambi. Plus, when the Giambi stuff hit the fan it was at the beginning of all of this steroid/HGH crap. I bet Jeter would keep his mouth shut if what happened to Giambi a few years ago was happening to him today.

  40. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 9:22 am

    “April 16th, 2008 at 9:12 am
    Yankee fans were not classy but than again it was outright DUMB of the organization and/or Hawkins for using 21.
    You don’t want to retire it? Fine, but don’t have somebody wearing it while O Neil is still employed and in the hearts of most Yankee fans.
    Common sense would like a word with you.”

    I’m sorry but that makes no sense. So how long should the organization keep the number out of play? Til O’Neill dies? It’s not retired, its an active number, anyone can wear it. O’Neill will always be in Yankee fans hearts. I know O’Neill is more beloved then say a guy like Tino, but the #24 was given to Sidney Ponson a year after he left, yet no huge uproar. This is silly and stupid.

  41. Don Capone April 16th, 2008 at 9:22 am

    What?! Hawkins can’t wear #22. That’s Clemens’ number!
    (just kidding)

    Mark Alan,
    Munson’s number is retired because he was the captain of the Yankees, the first captain since Gehrig. He was the leader of two World Championship teams, and an all-star catcher. The number wasn’t retired “because of his tragic death.”

  42. Don Vito A. Bellamo April 16th, 2008 at 9:22 am

    those jerks, I mean “fans” would have listened to nobody….on to the next subject as this one has been beaten into the ground…. ;-(

  43. Chris April 16th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    I don’t know I mean in a way it is not fair because Hawkins was paying tribute to one of greats. But Yankee fans had a special bond with O’neill that outsiders just can’t grasp fully. They should have thought about this before issuing Hawkins the number

  44. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    CountryClub:

    Jeter spoke out for Giambi because he is Giambi’s buddy. Jeter quietly picks his spots. He is a quiet captain. He doesn’t say much. When the boos rained upon Alex Rodriguez, he said absolutely nothing. At times Jeter chooses the situation he feels most comfortable addressing.

  45. Yanksrule57 April 16th, 2008 at 9:24 am

    These fans booing Hawkins are the same idiots who were trying to run ARod out of town in 2006.
    Now George above wrote that the fans who were doing that then were a minority.
    I can only watch the games on tv so if you were at the games I defer to you George. But on tv it sure sounded like more than a minority.

  46. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 9:25 am

    Look, it’s not like Hawkins didn’t know that taking 21 would cause trouble. Ensberg made it very clear what was happening to him when he wore the number. That alone should have told Hawkins to let it go. I don’t think that the number should be retired and I don’t think that Hawkins should be booed for wearing it. In my mind, the real culprits are the Yankees for even giving the number out.

  47. EricVA April 16th, 2008 at 9:26 am

    He’s taking #22?!?!? How dare he taint the legacy of Roger Clemens! Clemens is won of the greatest pitchers of all time, led us to a WS victory (rememeber that 15 K performance against 116 win Seattle?), won his 300 game and got his 4000 K with us. He even took up a weapon to battle Piazza and the Mets. Let’s boo Hawkins and demand that 22 be retired.

    Ok, in all seriousness, you can take most numbers and find a really great player that meant a lot to the Yankees and the fans. It’s just a number. Hawkins didn’t replace O’Neill.

  48. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:26 am

    Laura:

    The number isn’t retired, if a player requests it they can have it. It’s not the fault of anyone.

  49. Scorpio April 16th, 2008 at 9:27 am

    The fans booing Hawkins are similar to Red Sox fans that start the “Yankees Sux” rallies at Fenway. Idiotic & too much beer.

    I’m sorry, only Paul O’Neill could have stopped this. Not Jeter, Posada or the organization.

  50. george April 16th, 2008 at 9:28 am

    Jennifer, i think there is a subset of moronic Yankee fans who will boo anyone – probably most if not all are drunk. back when Jeter was 0-for-40 or whatever, even he got a few boos.

    i also heard Pettitte booed in that sense n the 2002 ALDS game he pitched.

    i distinguish between that – which often gets portrayed as “The Yankee fans booed so-and-so” – and real booing by “the fans”. to define my terms in something we all, unfortunately, can measure against, “real booing” by “the fans” is when Farnsworth has one of his unfortunate performances. that’s a sigificant percentage of fans booing.

  51. EricVA April 16th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    Since the fans have decided that we must also retire 2, 6, 20, 21, 46, 51 in the coming years we might as well get used to ridiculous numbers. Andrew Brackman? #93 Angelini? #121 (to honor Clemente of course)

  52. pat April 16th, 2008 at 9:29 am

    O’Neill never struck me as an ego player which is what made his handling of this so strange to me.

  53. Jim from Dalton April 16th, 2008 at 9:30 am

    The word ‘classless’ is thrown around too much here…

    booing is the fans voice. They really have no other way to be heard. The were not booing Hawkins the player or the man…they were booing the front office or the clubhouse for allowing one of this generations all time fan favorite’s number to be used by a completely unknown player.

    What did you want them to do, write a letter? The mistake was not Hawkins for he did not know what he asked for, the fault lies with whoever said ‘yes’.

    Yankee fans are not classless. Its the sound of their bark.

  54. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 9:31 am

    “In my mind, the real culprits are the Yankees for even giving the number out.”

    But its not a retired number!!! What are the yankees suppossed to do with it? Keep it hidden for the next 50 years? They give a player whatever number he request. Hawkins wanted 21, its nobodies fault. Just a dumb situation that was completely overblown.

  55. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 9:32 am

    I think the only thing more pathetic that the whole scenario and the way it unfolded is the Yankee fans who are making weak-assed excuses for it or forgiving it at all. I know it’s popular to support shades of gray since taking a hard stand would make you have to stick up for your beliefs and it’s easier to kind of melt in the middle so you give a little something to everyone. But there are times in life where it’s much more character building and people actually respect you more when you separate right from wrong and don’t waffle.

    1. If the Yankee organization did not want #21 out there, it was their responsibility to remove it. Period.

    2. Yankee fans openly booed LaTroy Hawkins on opening day when he was introduced. And it wasn’t a vocal minority either.

    3. Some top name players have come to Yankee Stadium and been unable to perform because of the pressure associated with the Yankees. For anyone who has questioned his beginning performances do you think that maybe that horrific reception, coupled with Stadium chants of Paul O’Neill, could have had any effect on his pitching ability?

    4. Paul O’Neill was a fan favorite but he isn’t going to the Hall of Fame and his number was not taken out of circulation by the Yankee organization. His waffling and lukewarm statements about yeah he kind of did like having that number as his totally added to the crap the fans gave Hawkins.

    5. The only class act in this whole scenario, other than those Yankee fans who would never have booed him and didn’t support the crap going on, has been LaTroy Hawkins.

    And for “Josh” who claims that Hawkins hasn’t done anything to stop the boos, apparently you haven’t watched the recent games in which he has pitched.

    The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. My respect for O’Neill is just about gone and the I also feel a lot of anger toward the losers at Yankee Stadium who participated in this. Yankee fans as a whole have now been painted with a pretty ugly brush because of it.

    I intend to email Pete to ask him where I can write a letter of support and apology to LaTroy and be sure that he gets it.

  56. randy l April 16th, 2008 at 9:33 am

    it’s a good number that should have been held for a better player. the decision should have been made at a higher level so o’neill and hawkins were not involved. from the management’s point of view ,the players are the product. how does it help the business to make two players look bad.

    if the yankees would have simply assigned another number to hawkins then there would have been no problem. so yankee management dropped the ball on this one. smart of hawkins to switch numbers. o’neill and hawkins should go out of their way to show support for each other. then the thing goes away.

    that said, it’s a number. it wouldn’t get me to boo a player.

  57. YanksAngel April 16th, 2008 at 9:33 am

    We were discussing this at length in yesterday’s game thread. My personal opinion is that O’Neil made it much worse with his reaction, and I know others completely disagree on that. It’s certainly a hot topic. I don’t think it will go away so quickly, given how many of us are ticked off that he was forced to change it to stop the boos and the many others that are angry at him for even wearing it. Unfortunately he will probably always be asked about it from now on, and so will O’Neil.

    What I’m really curious about is Pete’s comment that he received boos (and worse). What’s the “worse” Pete?

  58. frits April 16th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    Well-said, Pete. I couldn’t agree more.

  59. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 9:35 am

    Well said Trisha. I am a huge O’Neill fan (obviously) and the way he handled it bothers me. His comments on Yes when Kay asked him about the number and his only response was “just seems weird” shocked me. It’s a stupid number, personally I wouldn’t care if Hawkins wears number 3 out there tomorrow. A number doesn’t erase the way I felt about a player, nor do I identify a number with just one player.

  60. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 9:36 am

    I still say that Paul O’Neil coming out in favor of Hawkins wearing the number wouldn’t have had any affect on the situation.

    I know that some people are saying that Paulie should have said something. Guess what? He did say something – by not saying anything. He didn’t want Hawkins wearing the number either. That may be selfish on his part, but at least he wasn’t a phony by saying that he didn’t care.

  61. CountryClub April 16th, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Jay Destro: I disagree, but that’s OK.

    Now lets get another good one from The Wanger tonight!!

  62. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    And by the way I am not at all holding the Yankee organization responsible for any of this. When I said it was their responsibility to remove the number, I was saying that since it didn’t happen that number was free game.

  63. frits April 16th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    This is a pretty funny take on the Hawkins/O’Neil situation.

    http://johnsterling.blogspot.c.....ne-up.html

  64. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Pete: Well said.

  65. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    Randy l -

    So, LaTroy Hawkins goes to the Yankees and says, “I would like to wear #21 because I would like to honor Roberto Clemente” and the Yankees are supposed to say, “We’re sorry, LaTroy, but we’re holding that number for a better player than you are”?????

  66. DMan April 16th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    Wow, that’s terrible.

    Way to make an important relief pitcher feel like a part of the team..

  67. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    Well Laura, say he did say something if you listened to him waffling all over the place. He said he kind of did like having that number. That was enough said!

  68. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 9:38 am

    “My respect for O’Neill is just about gone and the I also feel a lot of anger toward the losers at Yankee Stadium who participated in this.”

    My respect for O’Neill hasn’t changed one bit. This doesn’t take away from what he did on the field. And again, I would have less respect for him if he had come out and blatantly lied about it bothering him about Hawkins wearing #21.

  69. EricVA April 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Randy l: the team doesn’t assign numbers…the players pick available numbers

  70. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Well someday when we deem a player “worthly” of wearing #21, we can have a big ceremony on the field, with a huge O’neill banner, him handing the player the number, and then we can burn whatever number the player was formally wearing. Only then will we feel comfortable and accept the #21 to come back into play. Wll that do it for everyone?

  71. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    worthy*

  72. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am

    Laura:

    Do you know what legacy is?

    Paul put a big mark on his legacy in my mind by handling the situation in this matter.

  73. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    Nicely put Doreen.

  74. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 9:41 am

    Then maybe he should have tried the truth, hey Laura?

  75. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 9:43 am

    I disagree, Jay. In the grand scheme of things, this whole number controversy is meaningless and will be forgotten over time. How many people will forget Paulie’s contribution to those World Series wins?

  76. Matt (In Toronto) April 16th, 2008 at 9:44 am

    This sucks and I am feeling ashamed to be a Yankees fan because of this right now. Hawkins has every right to 21 as Alberto Gonzalez does.

  77. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 9:45 am

    Laura -

    Paul O’Neill did not have to lie and say it didn’t bother him. I don’t think O’Neill should be chastised for feeling strange about someone else wearing his number, or even disappointed to realize that perhaps his number won’t be getting retired. That’s human and understandable. BUT what he could have said was something along the lines of, “It’s weird to see someone else wearing the number I wore (instead of “my number”), but I don’t think LaTroy should be put on the spot like that.”

  78. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:45 am

    Laura,

    Think about the now and how the actions of others effects this team.

    We all love the 90s teams, but let’s look at supporting the 2008 team.

    Move on people.

  79. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 9:45 am

    “Then maybe he should have tried the truth, hey Laura?”

    Trisha, truth is that he just should have come right out and said in no uncertain terms that it bothered him that the number was being worn. Of course, that probably would have made the booing worse.

  80. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    I’ve said it in other posts. When did Yankee fans turn into Raider or Red Sox fans?

    Its disgusting to see the behavior of these punks having an influence on what number Hawkins wears.

    Don’t give me this nonsense that the game is for the “fans”. Its for fans to support their team. Not to act like punks.

    The best thing about the new Yankee Stadium? They will price these punks out of ever having a presence in it.

    Its a shame. For years, the Yankees had the best fan base in sports. Smart, knowledgeable, funny, it was a pleasure to interact with Yankee fans at the 30-50 games a year I go to home and on the road.

    Piece by piece, more ugly behavior by Yankee fans have been taking place in the past few years. This stuff (the Hawkins mess) is just the latest example.

    If you don’t think other players, ie: future free agents, aren’t looking at this stuff and wondering why they would want to be a part of it, you have zero knowledge of Yankee history.

    Its a big reason why impactful FA’s dodged the Bronx in the 80′s. They wanted no part of the BS (at that time, it was George acting nuts instead of the fans) that came with being a Yankee.

    Paul O’Neill doesn’t distinguish himself well in this either. Its pretty classless to let a guy as nice as Hawkins (whom, as Pete states, is very well respected in the game by his peers) twist in the wind.

    He still isn’t going to get his number retired, despite this stuff.

  81. The Monarch April 16th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    Couple of things:

    Hawkins did nothing wrong here, and didn’t deserve to be booed. It was a minority of the fans, but it was a vocal minority.

    But I don’t buy the criticism of O’Neill and Jeter. Sometimes by even addressing the issue, you give it steam. I got the impression from O’Neill’s comments during the YES telecast earlier this year that he was trying to downplay it. They all probably figured it would just go away, as it should have done.

    I can’t believe that Hawkins feels pressured to change his number, when all he wanted to do was honor his hero. What a shame.

  82. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 9:47 am

    “BUT what he could have said was something along the lines of, “It’s weird to see someone else wearing the number I wore (instead of “my number”), but I don’t think LaTroy should be put on the spot like that.”

    True, Doreen. That would have sounded better. But again, I don’t think it would have stopped the booing. I’m convinced that these types of fans were going to boo regardless. Just my opinion, of course.

  83. jessiedog April 16th, 2008 at 9:48 am

    I think this was shameful (and not classy) behavior from the fans. I loved Paul O’Neill as much as anyone as a player – but we need to get over it and move on.
    I think O’Neill could have ended the insanity a few times and once in partucular when asked on a broadcast.

  84. Mitch April 16th, 2008 at 9:49 am

    Peter, I normally agree with you 100 percent on issues, but I think you are being a bit harsh in this case.

    I think the real mistake made here was by the Yankees, not by allowing another player to wear 21, but in how they handled it. I’ll discuss this point in a second.

    Yes, by any objective standard, O’Neill’s numbers do not warrant his number being retired. But feelings are not always rational and logical. While I agree that his number should not be formally retired, and while I do not condone the booing of Hawkins for wearing the number, I do think that the fans’ discomfort at seeing an outsider wearing O’Neill’s 21 is understandable (even if the manner in which the emotion was expressed was wrong).

    Consider these factors:

    - O’Neill wasn’t just a Yankee on championship teams, he was a beloved Yankee. I was at Game 5 of the 2001 World Series. The “Paul O’Neill” chant was not only one of the most chills-inducing moments I have ever experienced, but it made me proud to be a Yankee fan. It showed how Yankee fans “get it,” that we appreciated the contributions of a truly great team player, knew that this was going to be our last chance to express our appreciation to him (even though he never formally said he was retiring after the season), and seized the moment to be sure O’Neill realized that we appreciated him.

    - The Yanks haven’t won a World Series since 2000, making the players from the 1996, 1998, 1999 and 2000 champions even more beloved. The symbolism of giving O’Neill’s number to a journeyman reliever wasn’t lost on the fans. A page has turned.

    - Hawkins may be the greatest guy in the world (he seems to be all the positive things that are written about him), but he is not a good pitcher. Having another veteran reliever who can’t get the job done is bad enough. Giving him the number of a beloved Yankee is hard for fans to swallow.

    Yes, the Yankees really couldn’t retire 21 for all the reasons Peter pointed out. But I think the manner in which they re-introduced the number, taking the fans’ genuine feelings into account, could have gone a long way toward making the situation better. I don’t think there was only one right way to do it, but, for example, what if the number was given to a Yankee prospect (a Hughes or Chamberlain, say) as a way of passing the torch? What if the Yanks got O’Neill to suggest who should wear his 21 next? What if Girardi took the number as a tribute to his friend and former teammate?

    Again, these are just some suggestions, and I’m sure there are plenty of others. But all of the scenarios I laid out would have played out better and showed more respect for the fans than just handing the number to a journeyman infielder (Morgan Ensberg, which they did in the preseason) or a journeyman reliever long past his best days.

    So let’s cut the fans some slack and shift the focus to the powers that be at the Yankees who failed to account for the passion of the fans, who are, after all, the people who make the whole multibillion dollar business possible.

  85. YanksAngel April 16th, 2008 at 9:49 am

    Laura,

    I don’t think he should have lied and said it didn’t matter to him either, but I do think he should have been honest and said ‘He wished it was retired, but since it’s not, he understands Hawkins reason for wearing it to honor Clemente and that it was an honorable thing.’ All he did was encourage the booing fans who were already being idiots to continue with his avoidance of giving a straight answer and talking about how much it meant to him. His words of support for Hawkins would have been the only thing that made then stop booing, if anything could. He could have at least tried to help the situation because Hawkins was doing an honorable thing.

    Like Pete said if it does get retired, it won’t be for the right reason, and I hope it doesn’t get retired unless it’s for Clemente if all of MLB ever did that, like with Jackie Robsinson. I don’t think that will happen, but after this fiasco, I think that’s the only circumstance that it should. Sad situation.

  86. Paul9 April 16th, 2008 at 9:50 am

    Agree with pete 100%. No reason to boo this guy because of a number. Give me a break were not talking about someone wearing number 3 here. Oneil was good, but 21 should not be retired.

  87. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:50 am

    I go to my fair share of games like SJ44 I see a poor group infecting the fanbase lately. People who don’t care about the team, but just jump on bandwagons.

    It’s really hard to be a diehard and see people make your group of fans look so bad.

  88. Will April 16th, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Why is O’Neill a culprit? He was asked a question and said how he truly felt. We always criticize players for being fake, and then knock them for being honest. O’Neill was truly dissapointed by the number being issued and was flattered by the fans response. I am not going to knock for him for being fake and suggesting otherwise. Hawkins has never worn #21 before to honor Clemente…it’s not like the number is more important to him than it is to O’Neill and the fans.

  89. jashell2000 April 16th, 2008 at 9:51 am

    I agree with most of your assessment Pete. This is an unfortunate situation. However, the one area where I don’t think will make a big difference is what Hawkins says to “potential” free agents that are considering playing for the Yankees. I don’t disagree that he is a well respected player around the league. I am sure he is. I don’t think however that his opinion will change a decision to turn down a multi million dollar deal.

    Baseball is a business. Just ask Mo, Jorge and Arod. When Torre left (on bad terms)various media “experts” speculated that those guys would walk right out with Torre. Millions of dollars later they are in NY, not only to get paid but to hopefully get an opportunity to win a ring. I like Hawkins and feel bad for him, but don’t feel that his “street cred” will break the deal for someone like Sabathia, Texieria etc. That’s my 2 cents for the day.

  90. Old Goat- April 16th, 2008 at 9:51 am

    What I would love to see is the whole team going out with number 21 on their backs for one game.

    That would give support to a decent man who got hurt by some thoughtless fans. O’Neill was a scrappy player who won the hearts of a lot of fans, but frankly he will be slowly be forgotten other than the history over time. He was no Babe Ruth or Mantle.

    I felt O’Neill was wrong with how he handled the question from Kay, and felt his words encouraged the fans to keep it up. My feeling when he spoke was that he was hedging for it to be retired. He lost some respect from me with that.

  91. Jeff April 16th, 2008 at 9:51 am

    What should’ve happened is a homegrown Yankee, like Hughes or Joba, should wear 21. Yankees fans, including myself, would rather see 21 worn by a Yankee who we think will be here for awhile. Hawkins is a free-agent who Yankee fans probably didn’t want the team to sign. He shouldn’t be wearing 21, though I wouldn’t boo him for it.

    Give 21 to Tabata when he comes up!

  92. V April 16th, 2008 at 9:52 am

    “It is not Derek Jeter’s job, or any player’s job for that matter, to tell the fans what to do. Every time the fans do something that other people don’t like you get a bunch of posters asking why Jeter didnt say anything. Give it up. And speaking of the fans, the game is played FOR the fans. If people didnt go to the games there would be no baseball. If those same people who support the team dont want someone wearing # 21, then so be it. I dont agree with them booing the guy for wearing the number, I want to make that clear. But the fans spoke and they got what they wanted. Now we dont have to hear about this for the rest of the year. Thank God!”

    A small vocal minority of ‘fans’ (are they? Really? They’re pieces of s*** IMO) make the game less enjoyable for others.

  93. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:52 am

    Mitch,

    The number isn’t retired. If a player wants it he can have it. Your argument ends there.

  94. vinny-b April 16th, 2008 at 9:52 am

    Pete: well, stated.

    O’Neil: was strangely, quiet on the situation.

    Jeter: he is always too busy saying the right things, then to stick his neck out for anyone.

  95. Paul9 April 16th, 2008 at 9:52 am

    When you look out in monument park your taking about instrumental players to the game of baseball, and to the yankees. Legends. Oneil is not a legend IMO. It is as simple as that for me.

  96. V April 16th, 2008 at 9:52 am

    And I lost a lot of respect for O’Neill. Period.

  97. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 9:52 am

    SJ44, thats an interesting point about the new stadium pricing them out, lol. I still just think its the fans who feel because we are the yankees we are held to a higher standard. They are like any other organization, they have just been lucky enough to have had more success. The Yankees shouldn’t be held to a higher standard. Reminds me of what Francessa says in his argument about the Joba fist pump, how its un-yankee like. What the heck does that mean, un-yankee like. Yankee fans need to get off their high horse.

    These spoiled fans are disappointed in how the yankee seasons have gone the past few years, and are still clinging to the “dynasty years”. And since O’neill is a symbol of those good times, they are taking their frustrations out on Hawkins for taking that number and showing them those times are long gone. They need to move on.

  98. vinny-b April 16th, 2008 at 9:53 am

    yankee fans, who booed LaTroy: dissapointing.

  99. Bad Scooter April 16th, 2008 at 9:53 am

    George you just don’t get it. The fans were booing Hawkins on opening day before he ever threw a pitch. He’s really only had the one really bad outing and his ERA was enormous and that will stick in fans head for awhile. He’s actually pitched pretty good in most of his outings. It’s going to take awhile to get that ERA to respectability.

  100. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    Babe Ruth, Micky Mantle, Joe DiMaggio

    is Paul O’Neil’s career comparable to theirs?

  101. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    That really sucks that it went down like that. The kind of thing that gives Yankees fans a bad rep.

    There have been Philly fans that have told me Yankees fans are horrible. PHILLY fans. The people who throw batteries at opposing fans and players and make chants about players’ dead fathers. PHILLY fans.

  102. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    I don’t want to hear this nonsense about the fans “voice” on this issue or that, “if Hawkins pitched better, he wouldn’t be booed”.

    Hawkins was booed when he was INTRODUCED on Opening Day.

    Really, how dumb is that?

    Its great to have a “voice” but, if you act like an idiot, guess what? All Yankee fans have to take the hit for your behavior.

    Sorry but, I didn’t sign up for that simply because some idiots fans need to have a “voice”.

    There are no winners in this debate. O’Neill looks bad, the fans look worse, and its another example for Yankee haters (ie: ESPN) to crow nationally about what a bunch of ignorant jerks we have in our fan base.

    Great, the punks have something else to be proud of today.

  103. EricVA April 16th, 2008 at 9:55 am

    Ok can people stop making the argument that the Yankees handled this poorly by GIVING Hawkins the number. For the last time, that’s not the way it works in baseball. Players pick from available numbers or bribe another player for their number. If 21 is available, it’s available to anybody from Derek Jeter to Chad Moeller. It’s not up to the team to decide. If the team does withhold a number, then it’s like being retired (which is obviously not what the Yankees are going for right now).

  104. V April 16th, 2008 at 9:55 am

    It’s times like this that I’m glad I’m also a Cardinals fan (raised that way). It’s nice that there’s at least one fan base that’s respectful to its players.

  105. craig April 16th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    why shouldn’t paul o’neill’s number be retired? he was a better yankee than these guys:

    roger maris (two good seasons)
    phil rizzuto (not good in any capacity)
    thurman munson (commemorated for inability to fly a plane)
    don mattingly (4 good seasons, tailed off too early and only so popular because yankee fans had nothing else to root for)
    elston howard (commemorated for being the yankees first black third string catcher)
    ron guidry (three good seasons)
    reggie jackson (not even a yankee for four full seasons)

    paul o’neill had six legitimately great seasons as a yankee and helped them win four world series. there’s no reason not to retire his number, especially if the fans are calling for it. it was very stupid/generous of cashman to throw $3.7m at the albatross that is latroy hawkins, and hawkins should just be thankful of that and cut his losses from there (which it looks like’s doing).

  106. Tom April 16th, 2008 at 9:56 am

    Pete, don’t group all the fans like that. It was a loud minority that booed Latroy.

    Furthermore, don’t try to tell us, the fans, how we should feel about Paul O’neal.

  107. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 9:57 am

    craig:

    inability to fly a plane? are you serious? i hope you fall in a muddy puddle.

  108. Glenn April 16th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    For a guy that thought nothing of destroying water coolers for a bad at bat, Paul O’Neill has been a real mouse in watching some fans trash LaTroy Hawkins over his old number which should have been re-issued no later than a year after he retired.
    That’s it Paul, don’t just do something – stand there.

  109. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    This has nothing to do with Derek Jeter.

    One person could have stopped this and he didn’t do it. Paul O’Neill.

    All O’Neill had to say was, “Its a little strange seeing someone else wear the number but LeTroy is a good guy and I wish him the same success I had with the number”.

    How hard would have been for him to do?

    That would have ended it.

  110. vinny-b April 16th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    craig: wow.

  111. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    It’s times like this that I’m glad I’m also a Cardinals fan (raised that way). It’s nice that there’s at least one fan base that’s respectful to its players.

    V if you are reading through these comments you can see that most of us hear think this is ridiculous. So please don’t start with how yankee fans are disrespectful. Every team has a small group of people who act like this. The yankee mob group just tends to be a bit louder.

  112. V April 16th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    craig – Wow. That is a moronic post.

  113. V April 16th, 2008 at 9:59 am

    “The yankee mob group just tends to be a bit louder.”

    Much louder. And generally egged on by such toilet paper as the Daily News.

  114. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 9:59 am

    Craig,

    Aside from your inappropriate comment on Munson, if you are trying to say that O’Neill is better than HOF on your list, go back to class, learn a little about baseball, then come back and play in here.

  115. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Laura -

    I agree for the most part that there are some who would have continued to boo regardless of what Paul O’Neill did or didn’t say. O’Neill seems like a guy who would never court controversy but was put on the spot with this whole thing. He could have handled it better, and then some of those people may have said, “hey, if it’s okay with Paulie, then okay.”

    I guess it becomes dangerous to start saying what people shoulda, woulda, coulda done in a situation.

    I have the book “The Pride and the Pressure,” and went back to look at the Jeter/ARod chapter and the controversy over whether or not Jeter should have openly supported ARod when he was getting mercilessly booed for what the fans deemed poor performance. Something that struck me was that Gary Sheffield, who was on the DL during most of that season, was quoted in the book as saying if he had been there, HE would have spoken out in support of ARod. I had to laugh. Since when has Sheffield waited for the press to come to him???

    Anyway, I don’t think a player or manager really can say outright to the fans to stop booing. I think in the long run that is counterproductive, especially in New York where people do not like being told what to do. The best way to counteract and eliminate the boos is to start doing better. ARod was not booed last season, at least not as mercilessly and unceasingly (it was more situational). Also, my take on Jeter’s support of Giambi is that he wanted the public to know that Giambi was not being shunned by his own team for his involvement with steroids. But that’s just my opinion, not knowing what’s in Jeter’s mind.

  116. YankeeDiva April 16th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Pete,

    I completely agree :O

  117. EricVA April 16th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    Craig:

    Besides your crass response, I do agree with most of your assessment (except for Munson). Most of those players, especially Maris, Guidry, Jackson and Howard don’t deserve to have their numbers retired. If you put that against O’Neill, you are correct–retire it right away! However it has absolutely nothing to do with the argument about Hawkins being signed or having that number.

  118. vinny-b April 16th, 2008 at 10:01 am

    tom: Pete didn’t tell us, how we should view O’neil. He called out the fans, who booed Hawkins. Which he have every right to.

    it’s his blog. Besides, he’s right.

  119. Brad April 16th, 2008 at 10:02 am

    Craig :

    Was Paul O’Neill a better Yankee than Tino Martinez ??? Do fans boo Robby Cano for wearing No. 24 ???

    It’s time to get real.

  120. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 10:03 am

    Much louder. And generally egged on by such toilet paper as the Daily News.

    Don’t forget the Ny Post, who in my mind is nothing by tabloid journalism. Worst paper in the country.

  121. vinny-b April 16th, 2008 at 10:03 am

    rizzuto. Not good in any capacity?

  122. sfill April 16th, 2008 at 10:03 am

    shame on yankee fans for booing him and treating him the way they did the last few times he picthed. Those ‘few’ that did it ought to be ashamed of themselves. I hope this puts an end to it – and I say “GO HAWKINS!!!!!!!!!!!”

  123. EricVA April 16th, 2008 at 10:05 am

    And SJ…

    About Craigs post. Yes those are great players, but that doesn’t mean the Yankees must retire HOF players numbers. Reggie, for example, didn’t play with the Yankees long enough to warrent his number being retired in my opinion. If you want to argue that he did great things in the WS for two years, yes, but so did Aaron Boone or Scott Brosius.

  124. longtime April 16th, 2008 at 10:05 am

    Craig GET LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  125. NYSuperFan April 16th, 2008 at 10:05 am

    I couldn’t agree more Pete. Its such a shame that such a nice guy like Hawkins got treated that way. I was at Opening Day and it was horrible to hear the boos. It definitely wasn’t the majority of the fans, but definitely a minority that was very vocal.

    Everyone needs to give it up and I agree with someone above that was surprised that Paul never came out and told people to back off. Same with Jeter….someone should have stepped up.

  126. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    Yankee fans, take your lectures from Pete Abraham and Tyler Kepner. It was a classless move to boo him, yada yada.

    But since when were New York fans classy when it comes to crappy middle relievers? By all accounts, I’ve heard he is a great guy and a fantastic teammate. But I don’t remember the last time Yankee fans cared about character over performance.

    His first two innings as a Yankee? 8 hits, 1 HR allowed, 7 ERs for a 31.50 ERA.

    So you are going to take a Yankee legend’s number, one that hasn’t been worn since 2001, and perform like that? And you are going to be shocked that the fans react by chanting Paul O’Neill’s name at you and telling you that you suck?

    C’mon, LaTroy. You can’t be that stupid.

    I don’t get how Hawkins was so oblivious to the fact that taking this number would piss off Yankee fans. And on top of that… you are going to do your best Kyle Farnsworth impression? I think it’s safe to say that this is not the best way to endear yourself to the New York fans.

    (Note: I have a feeling if Joba Chamberlain wanted to switch to No. 21 in the offseason, fans might have bitched and moaned at first, but eventually gotten over it because Joba is lights out. However, I don’t even think Joba would have the balls to switch).

    Hawkins, though? A free agent pickup whose only ties to the Yankees was being the losing pitcher in David Wells’ perfect game, a guy with a career 56-76 record and 4.73 ERA? Really? You are going to take Paulie’s number? You?

    Not so much. Good move LaTroy. We’d knew you come around.

  127. murphydog April 16th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    craig = anti-mussina?

  128. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    I have the book “The Pride and the Pressure,”

    God that book was terrible. Only Yankee book I’ve ever read that took me like a month to read, just awful.

  129. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:06 am

    vinny-b

    WOOO that was a brave thing for O’Neill to do. Put it in his blog but stand there like a statue on national television. Yeah that definitely was the right order of things!

  130. YanksAngel April 16th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Good point Brad, and if they did boo Robbie, I think Tino would handle it differeently, especially if he saw the reaction O’Neil is getting now. :)

  131. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Btw I hope Hawkins pitches tonight. I’m going to the game and he’s getting a standing ovation from me. Anyone like to join me?

  132. vinny-b April 16th, 2008 at 10:08 am

    Aaron Boone, is the NY Yankees version, of Bobby Thompson. He had 1 hit.

  133. 21YANKEEPRIDE23 April 16th, 2008 at 10:08 am

    Yankee Fans, Game 5, 2001 World Series… Enough Said.

  134. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 10:09 am

    craig: i’m somewhat disturbed by your analysis of who’s deserving of a retired number. first of all it’s incredibly disrespectful what you said about Munson. You do remember that he was also the captain of the team, don’t you? Also, a guy like Roger Maris yeah he only had 2 good seasons, but don’t you think setting the single season home run record is a historical achievement worthy of having his number retired?

    anyway, the people that booed Hawkins are probably the same dumbasses who spent all of 2006 booing A-Rod everytime he didn’t hit a homerun.

  135. vinny-b April 16th, 2008 at 10:09 am

    “vinny-b

    WOOO that was a brave thing for O’Neill to do. Put it in his blog but stand there like a statue on national television. Yeah that definitely was the right order of things!”

    umm. okay. ?

  136. YanksAngel April 16th, 2008 at 10:10 am

    NYSuperFan
    I think this was solely O’Neil’s area to step up and do the right thing, not Jeter. He’s the only one that could have had a chance of settling the boo birds down. Instead, he just ruffled their feathers a bit more.

  137. Frank Discussion April 16th, 2008 at 10:11 am

    O’Neill handles this situation poorly, he should have put the interests of the team over his obviously fragile ego. Hawkins wore the number to honor Clemente, not to show any disrespect to O’Neill. Time to move on.

  138. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 10:12 am

    Doreen, I’m torn on the whole “player speaking out in support of another” thing. I was one of those who believed that Jeter should have come to A-Rod’s aid during those rough times. In fact, I have a friend that is 100% convinced that Jeter lost the MVP that year because he didn’t do more to help Alex. Not sure how true that is, but it could be. Maybe the voters were disappointed he didn’t step up as well. We’ll never know.

    At any rate, the sooner this 21 thing is put to bed, the better. We can debate it until the cows come home. The fact is that we should be more concerned with the actual games that are being played and not this numbers nonsense. We have real problems to worry about. I mean, really – how many freakin’ times are the Yankees going to leave the bases load this season? Good grief!

  139. rodg12 April 16th, 2008 at 10:12 am

    First off, craig, you’re a freaking moron of the utmost capacity. Please leave.

    Okay, on to more important matters. I whole heartily agree with Pete and most of the posters here. This situation has been a disgrace on the Yankees franchise and fans. Absolutely classless move by the fans booing Hawkins. Just despicable. I too lost some respect to O’neill when he didn’t diffuse the situation during his interview. He could have ended it right there and did nothing but waffle. For being such a warrior on the field, he sure did not exude that characteristic off it in this instance. The worst part of this is the affect on Hawkins, a man who was trying to do the right and honorable thing honoring his hero by wearing his number for the greatest franchise in sports. Seeing him booed on opening day was one of the lowest points I’ve had as a life-long Yankee fan. Pete, I (like trisha), would appreciate the opportunity to somehow be able to get in touch with LaTroy and apologize on behalf of the idiot Yankee fans that booed him. Is there any way you can facilitate this?

  140. CB April 16th, 2008 at 10:12 am

    The booing was not the worst part of the fan behavior here.

    What made this situation particularly awful was the chanting of O’Neil’s name. To have another players name chanted while you are trying to perform is a form of humiliation that far outstrips simple booing.

    So this was in no way a situation of fans just expressing their “right” to be vocal and comment on a players performance.

    The abysmal behavior that forced Hawkins to switch numbers for all the wrong reason was carried out by a small but vocal minority of fans. This is true.

    But this episode has now become an embarrassment for all Yankee fans as a whole, for the organization and also for O’Neil himself as he did nothing to rectify the situation and appeared to tacitly condone it.

    The notion that this booing was caused by Hawkins performance is nonsense.

    Remember – there were TWO players who were scared off from wearing 21 this year by the reaction of fans and the media attention the issue generated. Not one but two.

    Ensberg got scared off from wearing the number in the spring time – was that also because of unsatisfactory performance?

    No – he could tell that there was going to be vocal, angry outrage against him for no good reason.

    So is it a good thing that Ensberg was also scared off from wearing the number?

    Hawkins adopts it only because of Roberto Clemente – he seems like a good guy and I’d guess he figured if I’m wearing this to honor Roberto Clemente the fans will understand.

    Unfortunately he gave that minority of fans too much credit.

    So this issue of mob reaction inducing some kind of fear of backlash started well before Hawkins took the mound – amazingly it started in spring training in Florida with another player.

    O’Neil himself handled this in a very passive aggressive way – just look at how he phrased his reaction when asked about it. You don’t think the people chanting could read between the lines?

    He is still part of the organization – both formally in his announcing duties and informally as a Yankee player who has a very special place in the history of the team.

    Hypothetically, just say that Mattingly’s number was never retired. Could you imagine Don Mattingly ever reacting to this the way O’Neil did?

    If O’Neil was such a great Yankee and loved the organization so much why would he not help Hawkins, a fellow Yankee?

    If O’Neil had spoken up forcefully enough the chanting would have stopped.

    But he chose not to and it made him come off as bitter and even slightly angry about his number not being retired.

    No player is entitled to have his number retired. O’Neil came off as someone who feels that honor is owed to him.

    The whole situation was ugly. That’s the best word for it – just ugly. The idea of a crowd of people shouting down one person and forcing him to submit to their mass will is a black mark on all involved.

  141. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 10:13 am

    Actually, whether LaTroy was a nice guy or not is irrelevant. Of course, since he is a nice guy, it does make a juicier story. :)

  142. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 10:14 am

    You are assessing a guy based on his FIRST TWO INNINGS of work?

    Please, tell me you aren’t serious because even a troll can’t be this stupid.

    Eric, Reggie deserves to have his number retired. He came to NY at a time they needed someone like him to get over the hump. He produced in a big way. Historic way, from a WS perspective.

    That’s worthy of having his number retired.

  143. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:15 am

    “I don’t get how Hawkins was so oblivious to the fact that taking this number would piss off Yankee fans. And on top of that… you are going to do your best Kyle Farnsworth impression? I think it’s safe to say that this is not the best way to endear yourself to the New York fans.”

    If you can slow down long enough to read what I am going to say, and actually think about it, maybe you can come back with a comment that is better thought out and less hip hop.

    1. If Hawkins thought for a minute that taking number #21 was going to cause him to be treated like a piece of crap, I am sure he wouldn’t have taken it. It may surprise you to know that not every baseball player in the majors is living and dying on the way the fans perceive their Yankees. So I think it’s a safe bet that LaTroy didn’t stop for a minute and think about the fact that O’Neill wore the number and that as a danger signal in terms of asking for it. HE WANTED TO HONOR ROBERTO CLEMENTE, A REAL BASEBALL HERO.

    2. I think you put the cart before the horse when you accuse LaTroy of coming out and doing his best Kyle Farnsworth impression, as if perhaps the fan booing and the O’Neill chants that resonated when he took the mound for the first time, after the booing that took place when he was introduced, may not have had anything to do with a poor outing. Add to that natural Yankee fan jitters and I guarantee you there is a formula for disaster.

    LaTroy Hawkins did nothing wrong in this whole scenario. Period.

  144. murphydog April 16th, 2008 at 10:16 am

    Andrew:

    Hawk was booed BEFORE he threw his first pitch, so it was not about his performance. His first two innings are irrelevant.

    And as for your observation: “But I don’t remember the last time Yankee fans cared about character over performance,” I feel sorry for you. You are obviously a very new fan and don’t understand the Tradition of the Yankees, one of the classiest organizations in all of sports, and some of the best fans in the game. The issue is really about the fans lack of character and good sportsmanship – not Hawk’s traits.

  145. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 10:16 am

    “The whole situation was ugly. That’s the best word for it – just ugly. The idea of a crowd of people shouting down one person and forcing him to submit to their mass will is a black mark on all involved.”

    CB -

    That’s precisely why this episode bothers me as much as it does. It’s not about the number, per se.

  146. Frank Discussion April 16th, 2008 at 10:16 am

    Time to get a few Hawkins “21″ t-shirts printed up…

  147. Rishi April 16th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    From Buster this morning (about strong relief pitchers):

    Brian Bruney and Ross Ohlendorf, Yankees: Bruney has lost weight and is much more consistent, and Ohlendorf is showing some nasty off-speed stuff; the duo could take move in front of LaTroy Hawkins and Kyle Farnsworth in the bullpen pecking order.

  148. Rishi April 16th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    oh – not at all using the buster quote in the Hawkins argument, just trying to change the topic

  149. LibertyBelle April 16th, 2008 at 10:19 am

    Hey Brian- there are jerks in every fanbase. Philly has not cornered the market (though listening to local sports talk radio may lead one to believer otherwise). The argument is never-ending, but I don’t see Philly fans as being any different from any other NE fan base.

  150. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 10:19 am

    “The whole situation was ugly. That’s the best word for it -just ugly. The idea of a crowd of people shouting down one person and forcing him to submit to their mass will is a black mark on all involved.”

    You know, I also think that we need to put this booing into perspective. Lest we forget that Derek Jeter got booed that year he got off to a slow start. That, to me, is much worse than this.

  151. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 10:19 am

    No, not on his first two innings. His whole career. I’m not really assessing him either, just stating that his career statistics are not very good.

    Let’s be realistic people. It was a dumb move by him. If he was any good, people wouldn’t care that he changed his number.

    If Cano took 21, or anyone that was any good, I guarentee the fans wouldn’t care as much.

  152. Bad Scooter April 16th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Craig must be a troll Red Sox fan.

    Rizzuto has a few things that O’Neill doesn’t. One being an MVP award and another is Phil played shortstop on 7 World Series title teams.

  153. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 10:20 am

    Luckily I sit out in right where I am close to the players so I may get there for BP today and hopefully see Hawkins hanging around in the outfield like most relief pitchers due. With any luck I can get within an ear shot of him and tell him he’s worthy of wearing 21.

  154. Frank Discussion April 16th, 2008 at 10:22 am

    I think Craig needs to get back on his meds. One of the more ludicrous posts I’ve read this morning.

  155. randy l April 16th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    doreen-
    i think it was predictable there would be some people who would object to o’neill’s number being given to hawkins. because of that,it was a bad decision by someone in management. when hawkins asked for the number this could have been explained to him.

    o’neil is a special case because he was about as important to the yankees as a player could get and not have his number retired. i think it’s a nice gesture to let some time, maybe ten years, go by before it’s used again.

    as long as yankee numbers are retired which makes them important symbolically, then players like o’neill who don’t quite measure up to permanent number retirement should be acknowledged in some way. how about for every year they were a yankee ,honor the number by putting on a sabbatical. something like that.

    i see the problem as the present policy is an all or nothing thing with retirement of numbers. this is an opportunity to come up with a better plan than the one they have now. some fans care about it. players iike o’neil would appreciate the honor.

    as far as the clemente tribute by hawkins, if there was a policy intact that made the number temporarily unavailable, that would have solved that without offending hawkins.
    it’s also kind of presumptuous of hawkins to wear the number of a legendary superstar when hawkins in all reality pretty average. if he stinks ,which is a possibilty, how is that honoring clemente?

    but again, it wouldn’t have bothered me to have him wearing 21. i wouldn’t have even noticed it.

  156. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    StandingO’Neil,

    Thank you thank you for that if you get a chance to do it. And please let him know about all the Yankee fan support he really does have in this and how angry and embarassed we are for what he has been put through.

  157. Frank April 16th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Yea I when I first heard that ensberg changed his number and hawkins took it, I wanted to keep the number not worn. But I have been to yankee stadium every game but opening day and I have been BOOing him like I do Kyle Farnsworth, only when they give up runs. I don’t care what numbers those two wear, they suck. Period.

  158. CB April 16th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    I just took a look at Andrew’s blog. Wow. The long comment he made before was actually his blog post for today – though he didn’t include the insulting headline.

    Here is Andrew’s blog post from yesterday, April 15.

    Interestingly it’s about the issue of race in baseball.

    I strongly suggest everyone read it as it may give some insight into what kind of fans were booing Hawkins.

    In particular – not Andrew’s parenthetical remark about Derek Jeter being an “oreo.”

    This is the whole column below the dash:

    ———————————————————–

    “Tuesday, April 15, 2008
    Let’s See How Many Blacks Don’t Play Baseball Anymore Day

    I mean… It’s Jackie Robinson Day. This year’s numbers didn’t disappoint.

    I find it interesting that the number keeps dropping. Many see this is a problem. However, I believe it is simply because baseball is not the favorite sport of blacks.

    The study finds that baseball is more racially diverse than ever, so it is safe to say that baseball is not in any way shape or form discriminating any longer in the front office or on the field. I believe that simply, teams are looking for the best players, and it seems that the best players are now coming internationally.

    I don’t think that the Yankees or any team care what color you are. As long as you can swing a bat or throw 100 MPH, you have a spot on a major league team.

    It is pretty crazy though, that LaPaul O’Neill is the only 100% African American player (Derek Jeter is an Oreo). Thoughts?

    Note: No live blog tonight. Will be at the game tomorrow so no blog then either. Sorry for the slacking lately.
    Posted by arodspurplelips at 7:30 PM 0 comments”

    http://stirthedrink.blogspot.c.....ommon.html

  159. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Its not a dumb move by him. He was honoring Roberto Clemente for God sake.

    Really, if you are that unhappy about the Yankees and some of its players, please jump on the Red Sox bandwagon.

    Don’t give me this crap about what Hawkins should or shouldn’t have done over a stupid number.

  160. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    “LaTroy Hawkins did nothing wrong in this whole scenario. Period.”

    True, but Trisha – he did hear what Ensberg went through during Spring Training. That would have been enough evidence for me to know that I shouldn’t take #21.

    We all know that it’s not right. But it is what it is. We can’t change the behavior of others. Sometimes, you have to bite the bullet and give in. And that is what he’s doing now. It’s unfortunate.

  161. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    I’m thinking the Yankees should never have gotten into the business of retiring numbers to begin with.

    They could have still had plaques in monument park, they could still post the numbers around the field.

    But the retiring of numbers just opens up a huge can of worms.

  162. Jeremy April 16th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    I think CB is right on the money…

    I just hope the fans stop harassing him. Even though his number is changed I wouldn’t be surprised if the chants continue. The classless fans doing the chanting probably feel that there is no going back now.

  163. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Nice to know the Yankee players have your support Frank.

  164. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:26 am

    Andrew isn’t much better.

    Thanks for whoever responded to the post on player character. I have never been able to separate that from the player, and that is one of the reason that I have always been so proud to be a Yankee fan, that it has usually been easy to root for the entire person wearing the inform. Character doesn’t just mean a lot, it means everything. Unless, of course, you are one of the “what have you done for me lately” sorts that tends to frequent the game blogs.

  165. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 10:27 am

    Geez, CB now we have Klan members in the fan base. Wonderful. Ugh.

  166. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 10:28 am

    But we have to try to change bad behavior. Where would we be if those with the courage to change behavior decided it wasn’t worth it.

    As I stated before, I wish Hawkins had the fortitude to keep the number; but he has a job to do and those vocal fans (I’m trying not to be insulting) were going to make it difficult for him and does a relief pitcher really need any more distraction than the opposing team is ready to give?

  167. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 10:29 am

    Murphy dog:

    Are you serious? We have given standing ovations to cheaters (Giambi, Pettitte, insert names from 2000 World Series in Mitchell Report), applauded drug abusers (Gooden, Strawberry) and drunks (Ruth, Mantle!!).

    Those were real high character guys. You know why fans applauded them? Because they were great players. Fans don’t give a damn if you are a good guy. As long as you can help the Yankees win or have helped the Yankees win, you will be cheered.

  168. NYSuperFan April 16th, 2008 at 10:29 am

    YankeeAngel
    I agree and take it back on Jeter. O’Neil should have put a stop to it right as the season started.

  169. EricVA April 16th, 2008 at 10:30 am

    SJ,

    In this point I think we agree to disagree. Yes Reggie came when they needed and did amazing things in the world series. But, and this is obviously where we differ, I think retired numbers should be kept to the greatest Yankees in the history of the franchise. Of course, that’s my criterion and this is what all the debate is about to begin with.

  170. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:30 am

    Laura,

    It is a whole unforunate situation. I will feel a whole lot better about it if I find out that Hawkins understands that he was the victim of the “angry mob” and that what happened wasn’t universally backed by Yankee fans, I would feel a whole lot better about it.

    Hopefully Pete will come on and let those people who want to write letters of support to LaTroy know how to go about it.

  171. YanksAngel April 16th, 2008 at 10:30 am

    Andrew,
    You have a picture of Jeter on your blog and you say that? That’s disgusting.

  172. Lori April 16th, 2008 at 10:31 am

    Pete – please pass along my thanks to LaTroy for being such a classy guy. And while I would never boo a player for wearing a beloved player’s number (while shocked when I saw Ponson in #24, I wouldn’t think of booing him for that), please apologize for me on behalf of the fans. This is a ridiculous situation that has spun unbelievably out of control. Let the poor guy pitch and play and HELP our team. Why make him a scapegoat for wanting to come here and play for the Yankees?

  173. CB April 16th, 2008 at 10:31 am

    SJ,

    Can you belive that. How ugly was that blog post? It’s just sad. Think of how we like to talk about how New York is more sophisticated than say Boston.

    How could anyone claiming to be a yankee fan actually write this – and write it as a way of sparking conversation on his blog:

    ———————————————————-
    “It is pretty crazy though, that LaPaul O’Neill is the only 100% African American player (Derek Jeter is an Oreo). Thoughts?”

    ———————————————————–

    That comment by Andrew pretty much captures how ugly this situation, you get some insight into what was driving some of the people who were treating Hawkins so poorly – not all – but some.

  174. Dee April 16th, 2008 at 10:31 am

    This is utterly ridiculous. The small group of loud mouth classless so-called fans give the Yankees and most of us real fans a bad name.

    I respect Paulie as a player and am neutral toward LaTroy but I really think Paulie didn’t show much class in this case. To the people who said Paulie shouldn’t be held responsible for not saying anything, that is simply not true. Problem is he did say something. In two occasions, I remember him saying “the number meant a lot to me”, and when asked about the boos, he said “it’s nice to know that people still associate me with that number”. I was floored when I heard him say that. To me, he was borderline passive aggressive in encouraging those crazy fans who booe Hawkins.

    I’m gonna be at the game tonight, I plan to give LaTroy huge applause if he takes the mound.

  175. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:32 am

    “Fans don’t give a damn if you are a good guy.”

    Uh wrong. There was a collective sigh of relief when the Yankees shipped off Gary Sheffield. YOU may not care. But there are fans who do care and care deeply.

    I’m one.

  176. Dee April 16th, 2008 at 10:33 am

    *boo* not booe:-)

  177. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Trisha– Do you boo Andy Pettitte? Just curious.

  178. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    I’m with you dee.

  179. Frank April 16th, 2008 at 10:34 am

    Your right its too early to get on Hawkins, he has been here 2 weeks, but Kyle Farnsworthless has been here and he stil throws his straight fastball and hittable slider. He should have been gone a long time ago. But Cashman can’t get rid of him because no one wants him…

  180. wsr April 16th, 2008 at 10:35 am

    i view paulie’s treatment of this issue as being on the same plane as ortiz campaigning for mvp. classless. i’m finding more and more that i’m embarrassed by my fellow yankee fans. growing up in CT, i had my choice between being a fan of the yanks or sox, and i realized that i just didn’t want to be grouped in with the sox fans. i’m just waiting to hear a red sox sucks chant, or a paul o’neil chant at a giants or rangers game.

    it’s just embarrassing.

    maybe we should cap how many numbers can be retired. if you want to retire o’neils number, he have a demonstrably better claim to being retired than an already retired number, at which point, that number goes back into circulation.

  181. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 10:35 am

    In the end, this probably won’t change much. If Hawkins has another bad outing, I think he’ll still be booed. I just think the chanting of O’Neill’s name will stop.

  182. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:35 am

    The sad part is if fans give LaTroy support now he’ll never know if it’s because they were backing him for all the crap he took or because he gave back the number.

    I know you may say what difference does it make as long as they support him, but I think it makes a difference in the way this man has been changed, even by a few degrees, because of this experience. Nobody has the right to do that to anyone else. But cruelty is a sad fact of life.

  183. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:36 am

    Andrew, I’m in the group of fans who doesn’t ever boo a member of the team I root for. Sorry.

  184. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 10:37 am

    Pettitte cheated three times and lied about it countless other times. He even lied when he admitted it the first time the report came out.

    Why don’t all of you fans that care about character demand that we ship Pettitte out?

  185. bigjf April 16th, 2008 at 10:37 am

    I feel two ways about this:

    1) It’s an honorable reason for wearing it, and the Yanks apparently aren’t going to retire it because they let Ensberg and Hawkins both wear it.

    2) Wrong or not, as an O’Neill fan I feel like I’d be part of the crowd that would say “that’s not your number!” (Haven’t been fortunate enough to get to a game yet this season).

    But in any case, as far as Hawkins’ supposed bitterness about this and his influence on future FA signings, this is a franchise whose fans notoriously booed Mickey Mantle, Alex Rodriguez, Roger Maris (just for playing well), and countless others. Players have been run out of town, managers have been let go for not winning the World Series, and for all this the franchise and the fans already have a reputation that precedes them. So do a little research next time, Hawkins! It’s great that you love Clemente, he was a great man, but in this town at this point in time there is only one #21 in navy blue pinstripes. And I’m not saying that because it’s what I fully believe in (I got over the fact they were using the number again, after about an hour of crying), but it’s obviously what enough fans believe in order to have this kind of influence on a player. You could probably pull a Cano if you wanted and wear #12 (21 backwards, don’tcha know!) I would think Alberto Gonzalez would let you wear it, perhaps for a nominal fee.

    I ask you this, if and when Sabathia becomes a FA, do you think he isn’t going to sign with the Yankees because LaTroy Hawkins told him about how the fans were rude and “forced” him to stop wearing #21? Hmm, let me see….26 (maybe 27) Championships…Can’t wear the number I want…Fame, riches, and glory….Ohio….

    What would you pick?

  186. craig April 16th, 2008 at 10:37 am

    paul o’neill WAS better than tino martinez– compare their 96, 98, 99 and 00 seasons.

    as for saying o’neill is better than “HOF players,” the only two hall of famers i said he was a better candidate than were rizzuto and jackson. rizzuto is one of the least deserving members of the hall of fame, and while jackson is a legitimate hall of famer, he is not a legitimate yankee– the vast majority of his career was played elsewhere.

    also, the only reason to justify thurman munson having his number retired and paul o’neill not is that thurman munson died, and i clearly tapped into that by riling up a bunch of idiots in pointing out as much. o’neill had more homeruns, RBI,a higher batting average, and a much better OPS in two less seasons than munson, and even when you take into account the fact that munson’s numbers are of more value at catcher, and the difference in eras (which doesn’t really hold much water, anyway– munson was good in the mid-to-late 70s, the difference in offensive numbers between then and now is largely blown out of proportion) you can’t justify retiring one guy’s number and not the other.

    also, props to the uncle toms out there who got uppity about my thurman munson comment, but not my elston howard one.

  187. Yanksrule57 April 16th, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Craig,

    Rizzuto was an MVP, moron.

    I am done with you, now go back to your room in mommy’s basement.

    SJ44,

    Worse than being like Raider or Sawx fans if this keeps up Yankee fans will get the reputation that PHILLY fans have.

    I thought we were better than that.

  188. Captainwiley April 16th, 2008 at 10:38 am

    I guess I’m in the minority here, but I dont agree with you on this one Pete. Ensberg figured out pretty quickly that this was a delicate situation and made a decision to choose another number. Hawkins, having already seen backlash during spring training towards Ensberg took the number anyway? What did he expect once the season started? He’s a one year rental player who more than likely will be largely forgotton after this season is over. Just because he’s a good guy, doesn’t cut it with the fans in the bleachers. It was interpreted as a sign of disresepect to the late 90′s dynasty by a player who didnt seem to want to take the time to learn why the number was so important to the fans.

    And to say Paulie should have said something to make the fans back off is absurd. Why on earth should he? Maybe he didn’t want anyone wearing the number and just didnt want to come out and say “Yeah, you guys are right, maybe my career in NY wasnt as good and memorable as me or the fans would like to believe.” Did Hawkins even ask O’Neil about the number? If he did, I could buy the argument that he should have spoken up. If not, than Hawkins got just what everyone, including himself, should have seen coming. Maybe Paulie was upset that Hawkins didn’t ask him for his blessing on the matter and thats why he didnt speak up. Dont put this on O’Neil though. It was Hawkins choice.

  189. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 10:39 am

    Randy l -

    I will agree that the Yankees management might want to examine the number retiring issue. They obviously were of two mind regarding #21, because it hasn’t been available, I guess, since O’Neill retired. (Or maybe no one wanted it anyway?) The “limbo” situation isn’t good.

    But if a number is available, it’s available. You can’t say who is “good enough” to wear a number. Plus, as you can probably tell by my prior posts, I think a number is a number is a number. I do understand wanting to honor the most revered contributors to the Yankee history, but since there are a finite set of numbers to be issued (unless triple digits become popular and people get used to seeing your All-Star shortstop wearing #86), it seems kind of silly to take numbers out of circulation.

  190. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Andrew,

    You can think somebody is a good guy even though they have made past mistakes. We are getting way off base here, but i wouldn’t ever cheer for Albert Belle or Barry Bonds if they were Yankees. Pettitte has always been a well respected individual. I was deeply disappointed he made the mistake he did, and he seems to be truly sorry for that. It will always bother me he made that discission, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

  191. TKinDC April 16th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    This was kind of cool from the Times:

    Since that season, how many pitchers have more victories than Pettitte’s 203? Incredibly, it’s only one.

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....-of-famer/

  192. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    CB,

    Its why I try hard (and am not always successful) in rooting out the trolls on this blog.

    At some point, you can’t let the idiots become the “voice” of the fan base.

    It happened in this Hawkins situation and, on a smaller scale, we see it in the game threads.

    They become idiot central the moment something goes wrong in a game.

    Last night, Arod K’ed twice with guys on base. So, folks lose their minds and say he “never hits in the clutch”.

    Conveinently forgetting (or intentionally omitting) the 4 hit game from the night before.

    That’s how a segment of the fan base got started on the “let’s run Arod out of town” stuff.

    Then, ESPN picks up on it and all of a sudden, its a national story.

    It took a historic year from the guy to have these same punks beg him to come back. How ironic?

    My point is, the majority of Yankee fans, like the majority of the folks that post in this blog, are GREAT fans.

    Good people and great fans.

    We can’t let the punks become “voices” of this fan base.

    That’s how networks like ESPN pick up on this stuff and the Anti-Yankee venom spews all over the country.

    Its not a First Amendment rights issue. Its an issue of keeping the lunatic fringe from being representative of the larger segment of the fan base.

    Unfortunately, they “won” in the Hawkins Case. Let’s try to make it their last “win” on stuff relating to the Yankees.

  193. CB April 16th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    It’s not just an issue of normal booing. Chanting O’Neil’s name is intended to HUMILIATE Hawkins.

    Humiliation – that was the goal. And that goes way past any normal act of “booing.”

    You don’t think Hawkins has been booed before? Of course he has.

    But has he had another player’s name chanted like that in order to humiliate him? I doubt it.

  194. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    “Andrew, I’m in the group of fans who doesn’t ever boo a member of the team I root for. Sorry.”

    I’m against booing players as well except for one exception – Carl Pavano.

  195. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:42 am

    For those of you who feel that this whole thing was a travesty against Hawkins, don’t even get drawn into long debates with the apologists for the disgusting behavior. People are throwing up red herrings all over the place in an effort to take the focus off what happened and try to turn it into a false this player vs. that player debate. Don’t fall for it. It’s a waste of time.

  196. craig April 16th, 2008 at 10:42 am

    yes, rizzuto had one good season in a career in which he hit .273 with a .706 OPS. mind-blowing insight, ponce

  197. YanksAngel April 16th, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Laura,

    He’d have to actually play in order to be booed so you’ll probably never get your chance. :)

    TKinDC,

    Nice article on pettite. I had no idea he was ahead of so many.

  198. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 10:46 am

    “You don’t think Hawkins has been booed before? Of course he has. ”

    Oh, you bet he has. He was a Cub and the fans here were brutal to him. Absolutely brutal. Of course, he was pitching horribly when he was here so that might have had something to do with it.

  199. ed April 16th, 2008 at 10:46 am

    anyone see fat schilling open up his mouth again? his dr. said that curt wants to play in NY for 2009. too bad, curt. yanks don’t want you.

    http://mlbfleecefactor.com/200.....kee-rumor/

  200. Sara April 16th, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Very upsetting Pete. I like to think that the majority of Yankee fans are a class act, just like the organization, but it doesn’t seem the case right now. Fans need to move on. Paulie O was part of one of the greates dynasties we will ever see but those days are over. Hawkins has a right to wear whatever number he wishes and is available. Not nice Yankee fans who booed! Show a little class! We aren’t Met fans for crying out loud!

  201. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 10:46 am

    yes, rizzuto had one good season in a career in which he hit .273 with a .706 OPS. mind-blowing insight, ponce

    Game has changed a lot Craig. In the 1940′s SS weren’t all 6 foot 5 and weighted over 200 pounds. Rizzuto was the best SS on his team for the era he played in. He contributed to his team winning WS. He was a heck of a player. Thats why its hard to compare era’s in baseball. Going strickly on numbers (as we value them today) he probably shouldn’t be in the hall, but thats no reason to say he wasn’t very good. He was excellent for his time.

  202. Dee April 16th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    “Maybe Paulie was upset that Hawkins didn’t ask him for his blessing on the matter and thats why he didnt speak up. Dont put this on O’Neil though. It was Hawkins choice.”

    What? So Paul O’Neill OWNS the number now?? Did O’Neill ask Roberto Clemete’s blessing first when he chose 21?

    Unbelievable!

  203. CB April 16th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    SJ,

    That’s why that guys blog was so absurd – he captured the complete stupidity of that kind of thinking perfectly.

    He has a picture of himself with jeter proudly adorning the top of his blog and then calls Jeter an “oreo” as if this is just a completely ok thing to do.

    To not spot that kind of ugly irony is just beyond belief. But there it is.

  204. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    “He’d have to actually play in order to be booed so you’ll probably never get your chance.”

    I know. I’m getting deprived of the chance to boo him. At this rate, I’m ready to go to his house to boo him. That’s how much he deserves it.

  205. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 10:48 am

    Phil Rizzuto was also an icon AFTER his playing days were over as a beloved huckleberry in the broadcast booth. He retired in ’56, but his number wasn’t retired until ’85. And others wore that number in between.

  206. Anti anti-anti April 16th, 2008 at 10:48 am

    Yank rule said
    “Craig,

    Rizzuto was an MVP, moron.

    I am done with you, now go back to your room in mommy’s basement.”

    hahahaa, Yes! You can’t have a true internet argument without the mandatory reference to somebody’s mom’s basement.

  207. Joe Swartz April 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    If Peter Abraham (who by the way made a big deal about Morgan Ensberg wearing 21 in spring training) had a problem with Hawkins wearing 21 then the posters on this board would also have a problem.

    I nearly laughed out loud at the “what if an impending free agent asks Hawkins about his experience in New York” comment…as if money isn’t the ONLY thing that’s going to matter to a free agent…..Yeah, Pete Hawkins opinion is going to matter to this future free agent…Forget the fact that any future free agent has probably played in Yankee Stadium already and will have the pleasure of playing in a brand new ballpark in the greatest city in the world Yankees fans booed Hawkins….nice try Pete!!

  208. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Both sides here have a good argument.

    On one side, Paul O’Neil was a beloved Yankee. These are Jersey numbers that belong to the team. He is, despite what people are saying, disgracing the number 21 with his poor performance and should respect the fans feelings. Though I don’t think any of this should have to do with whether or not O’Neil will have his number retired (he wont) but expect booing if the Jersey of a fan favorite ends up with an early 30+ ERA.

    On the other side, it’s just a number and had a separate meaning to Latroy. If the guy was an a-hole then everyone could understand the booing but the person doesn’t deserve having obscenities screamed at him.

  209. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Standing ONeil,

    Reasonable point. However, what if it was Belle hitting the huge post season homeruns instead of Bernie during the dynasty, (which was a real possibililty)?

    And also, why is it that when Yankees cheat and lie on numerous occaisons, that we like to think they are still good guys? Because they are nice to the beat writers?

    I think the fans would have cheered Belle if he hit 40 Hrs and 140 RBI for 5 straight years. Obviously, Belle is a complete a-hole.

    I think it’s definitely very interesting.

  210. Greg April 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    O’Neill isn’t a hall of fame player, but the Yankee fans took him into their hearts, which doesn’t happen every day. They appreciated how hard he played the game, and the fact that he actually CARED how the team did. When we see someone like Cano dancing in the dugout when his team is getting pounded in Comiskey Park vs the White Sox, it makes us appreciate Paulie all the more.

    I still remember his at-bat vs the Indians in the 97 playoffs when the rest of the team was choking in the final game of that series. He roped that double off the wall in the 9th inning…never giving up when the rest of the team had packed it in for the season.

    Hawkins showed no common sense after Ensberg realized it was a no-win situation to wear that number.

  211. YanksAngel April 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    This thread is going to get as many comments as the game threads do. Nobody can say Yankees fans are not passionate!!

  212. Dee April 16th, 2008 at 10:50 am

    Hey Pete,

    If you’re reading this, would you consider running a poll on this? Thanks.

  213. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 10:51 am

    in any case the Yankees definitely need to cool it with the number retiring. I don’t think they will retire 21, and probably not 51 either. In the future i think they will retired 2 and 6, and obviously 42 since it’s already retired throughout the game. beyond that, players would need to do something pretty spectacular to get their number retired.

  214. SomeGuy32 April 16th, 2008 at 10:52 am

    The Yankees are to blame for this.

    If they never had any plans to retire the number – they should have put it back in circulation in 2003 (wait a year out of respect or whatever… then let it go)

    By waiting until the beginning of this year to put the # back in circulation (and basically forcing it on Morgan Ensberg during spring training), they created this mess.

  215. wheelZ April 16th, 2008 at 10:53 am

    maybe if hawkins wasn’t another awful pick up by cashmoney, the fans wouldn’t care.

    if he is honoring clemente or jack kemp, it is a disgrace.

  216. EY April 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am

    So it’s not OK to wear O’Neil’s number but it’s OK to wear the Rocket’s?

  217. Kill-Schill(ing) April 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am

    To be honest, I didn’t think Hawkins endured the kind of abuse you described, Pete.

    The two games I attended where Hawkins pitched the fans just chanted O’Neill’s name. The context struck me as more amusing than offensive, a mixture of Bleacher Creature irreverence and the exasperation of the informed fan, with Hawkins performance.

    I certainly didn’t detect in it any of the enmity that greets Farnsworth’s entrance for instance.

    Hawkins also might have helped his case by discussing why that he was wearing the number ’21′. (To say nothing of pitching better in his first two outings.)

    I include myself among most fans who didn’t know he intended to honor Clemente with it because Hawkins never discussed it. Had they, I suspect, few but the yahoos would have complained. Clemente’s name elicits the same kind of hushed reverence throughout baseball as Thurman Munson’s and in the Puerto Rican community much of the pride Jackie’s does in the Black community.

    Hawkins seems like a great guy. I’m sorry to see him jeered for any reason, especially over something as ridiculous as a number. (To me only the memory of the men who wore them are sacred.)

    Still, his handling of the matter didn’t win him the favor or the understanding he probably deserved.

  218. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am

    The Oreo comment was just a joke. It’s not this racial slur that’s to be taken seriously. Relax.

  219. greg April 16th, 2008 at 10:54 am

    O’Neill isn’t a hall of fame player, but the Yankee fans took him into their hearts, which doesn’t happen every day. They appreciated how hard he played the game, and the fact that he actually CARED how the team did. When we see someone like Cano dancing in the dugout when his team is getting pounded in Comiskey Park vs the White Sox, it makes us appreciate Paulie all the more.

    I still remember his at-bat vs the Indians in the 97 playoffs when the rest of the team was choking in the final game of that series. He roped that double off the wall in the 9th inning…never giving up when the rest of the team had packed it in for the season.

    Hawkins showed no common sense after Ensberg realized it was a no-win situation to wear that number…..

  220. trisha - April 16th, 2008 at 10:55 am

    Joe Swartz -

    Ridiculous comment. People here criticize Pete and what he says daily. Maybe, just maybe, they agreed with the point he was making.

  221. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 10:56 am

    We’re all human. We would love for all our heroes to be without fault, but they’re not. Sometimes we cheer for performance over character; sometimes we cheer for character over performance. Sometimes we just choose to ignore issues of character for the sake of expedience and because it is very, very difficult to come to terms with our own moral ambiguities.

    To quote songwriter Stephen Schwartz, “Wicked,” “There are precious few at ease with moral ambiguities, and so we act as if they don’t exist.” it’s just human nature. So, yes, we rooted for Strawberry and Gooden and a bunch of others because at the moment we were cheering them, they were merely players on a baseball field.

  222. Ari April 16th, 2008 at 10:56 am

    Why doesn’t baseball retire Clemente’s number too? He was a great ball player and an even better humanitarian.

  223. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    “By waiting until the beginning of this year to put the # back in circulation (and basically forcing it on Morgan Ensberg during spring training), they created this mess.”

    Not exactly. While I agree that they shouldn’t have given the number to Ensberg, I think that LaTroy would have ended up asking for it anyway. He said that he couldn’t get 32 so 21 was next on his list (I think his Mom suggested it). Under this scenario, I don’t think this situation could have been avoided unless the Yankees told him that #21 was not available.

  224. TurnTwo April 16th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Hey, Pete… looks like your boy picked his horse for the presidential race.

  225. greg April 16th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    O’Neill isn’t a hall of fame player, but the Yankee fans took him into their hearts, which doesn’t happen every day. They appreciated how hard he played the game, and the fact that he actually CARED how the team did. When we see someone like Cano dancing in the dugout when his team is getting pounded in Comiskey Park vs the White Sox, it makes us appreciate Paulie all the more.

    I still remember his at-bat vs the Indians in the 97 playoffs when the rest of the team was choking in the final game of that series. He roped that double off the wall in the 9th inning…never giving up when the rest of the team had packed it in for the season.

    Hawkins showed no common sense after Ensberg realized it was a no-win situation to wear that number………….

  226. saucY April 16th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    this whole thing is embarassing

    if the yanks could do the whole thing over, they would have given out ‘21′to someone in 2002.

  227. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 10:57 am

    EY

    Yeah Roger Clemens is one of the most renowned pitchers in the game, but his legacy with the Yankees doesn’t hold a candle to O’Neill’s. He came on for a few years and helped with 2 championships. then he “retired” and wound up signing with Houston. then he comes back for a half season years later and doesn’t do anything great. not to mention the whole Mitchell Report thing. They aren’t comparable, O’Neill and Clemens.

  228. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Kill Schill(ing) -

    I respectfully disagree with you; it was widely reported that Hawkins chose #21 to honor Roberto Clemente at the time he took the number.

  229. randy l April 16th, 2008 at 11:00 am

    “They could have still had plaques in monument park, they could still post the numbers around the field.
    But the retiring of numbers just opens up a huge can of worms.”

    good point doreen-
    check out this list of players who have worn retired numbers:

    http://www.behindthebombers.com/num1-10.html

    i remember
    #1 as bobby richardson
    #2 as jeter
    #3 as ruth
    #4 as gehrig
    #5 as dimaggio
    #6 as clete boyer
    #7 mantle
    #8 yogi
    # 9 maris and nettles
    #10 tony kubek
    how we remember the numbers is mostly how we first saw them.

    if you look at the list , individual numbers were used by lots of players.as you say it has become a bit of a problem, but the tradition is here to stay so the yankees need to evolve their policy. i think the first step is to make different levels of honoring a number .

    hawkins is an innocent in this. he just landed in a buzz saw through no fault of his own.

  230. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 11:01 am

    Fair argument Andrew. Its true a player can be nice to beat writers, volunteer for charities and still be a read a-hole. We live in an age now where we get almost too much info on players, either from bloggers who have met them, or TMZ type programs where they follow an athletes every move. So from everything I’ve read or heard, Andy is a good person, religious (may not be important to some) and respectful of the game.

    Everything you ever heard of Belle, him running children down in his car, flipping off fans, makes me dislike him. To be perfecetly honest, I don’t know how I’d react if he were a yankee. But in all honestly I said if the yankees for some reason signed bonds this offseason, I’d give up my season tickets. Just the way I felt, you can disagree wtih me on that all you want.

  231. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Laura –

    In the NY Daily News story, it said when 32 wasn’t available he was going to go with 22 at his mother’s suggestion but then 21 became available because Ensberg didn’t want it so he took that instead. And now he has 22, so at least his mom will be happy. :)

  232. CraftyLefty April 16th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Maybe it’s a good thing that Al Gore’s invention here wasn’t as popular in the beginning of the 1996 season, when a number of Yankee ‘fans’ were booing Tino Martinez and Joe Girardi, for the simple fact that were replacing Don Mattingly and Mike Stanley.
    Looking back, I don’t remember Mattingly being called ‘classless’ for not coming forward and asking the fans not to boo Tino. But since Pete said this is Paul O’Neill’s fault; the lemmings here are all over him.

  233. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 11:02 am

    “this whole thing is embarassing”

    2004 was embarassing. This is unfortunate.

  234. wsr April 16th, 2008 at 11:03 am

    the argument that who cares how we treat our players, they’ll always come to NY for the money isn’t the case any longer. revenue sharing and lux tax are making it so there are lots of teams with money to spend.

    ny may be the greatest city in the world, but our fans are making yankee stadium one of the worst places to play, at least as a home team, in the league. these players make enough money that you can play for the rays (they’ll have a new stadium soon), and still have an apartment in ny. you don’t have to play there to live there in the off season.

  235. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    “In the NY Daily News story, it said when 32 wasn’t available he was going to go with 22 at his mother’s suggestion but then 21 became available because Ensberg didn’t want it so he took that instead. And now he has 22, so at least his mom will be happy. ”

    Hey, in the end, that’s the most important thing – that his mother is happy. At least, that’s why my Mom tells me.

    :)

  236. CB April 16th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    “The Oreo comment was just a joke. It’s not this racial slur that’s to be taken seriously. Relax.”

    Yeah. That’s what they all say. That is a racial slur – objectively it is a racial slur. That’s how the term first came into use and that’s how it’s continued to be used.

    There was absolutely nothing in your post that indicated it to be a “joke.” You were using the term in fact to draw a distinction on the Jeter’s race vs. Hawkins race.

    That’s exactly what you wrote.

    How about this Andrew – why don’t you write Jeter a letter and let him know that you referred to him as an “oreo.” I’m sure he’d be absolutely ok with it and he’s see how you were joking.

    Because I’m sure Jeter never heard that slur growing up.

    You’re post made it pretty clear as to why you were so up in arms against Hawkins.

    Thanks for providing that insight. You made the issue much clearer.

  237. Anti anti-anti April 16th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    Hawkins for president!

  238. Brad April 16th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    It seems that there’s no recollection of Sidney Ponson being booed for wearing No. 24. Ponson was picked up from the scrap heap with loads of off-field issues and had a short lived career as a Yankee.
    C’mon Paul O’Neill, don’t let this damned thing linger any longer. Speak up. It’s not like a mortgage foreclosure to keep No. 21 issued. Deal with it. Tino did.

  239. YanksAngel April 16th, 2008 at 11:05 am

    There’s an article about it on teh NYY website now

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

    He talked it over with Jeter and Mo and others before deciding and they said the # wasn’t worth the hassle it was causing him.

    Wow! Booing fans should really be ashamed.

  240. YanksAngel April 16th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    He was getting vulgar comments, not just boos. :(

  241. bigjf April 16th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    Oh I would have booed Ponson too if I saw him pitch for that week or so he was on the team. I’m surprised that blob even fit in the uni.

  242. CraftyLefty April 16th, 2008 at 11:07 am

    Sidney Ponson wasn’t the first person to wear #24 after Tino. It was Ruben Sierra.

  243. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Well, Pete, I just noticed it’s after 11 a.m. and i spent my entire morning wrapped up in this controversy. While I wouldn’t say it was a waste of time (I think the underlying issue is very important), I would say there were a few more things I should have been doing!!! :lol:

  244. Jim McDonald April 16th, 2008 at 11:08 am

    Anyone booing Hawkins for his performance isn’t paying attention.
    Anyone booing Hawkins for wearing #21 is a moron.
    Paul O’Neil was a good ballplayer, and a great Yankee. My opinion is that he doesn’t quite make it for a retired number, but it’s certainly an arguable case. It would’ve been a classy thing for him to call out the morons, but it’s no black mark on him that he didn’t.
    Reggie Jackson’s HoF photo & plaque show him in a Yankees cap; that’s good enough for me.
    Craig, you’re lower than whaleshit.

  245. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 11:10 am

    Doreen this argument is great, making my day fly by

  246. Captainwiley April 16th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    Dee…I respect your posts and contributions on here but:

    “What? So Paul O’Neill OWNS the number now?? Did O’Neill ask Roberto Clemete’s blessing first when he chose 21?”

    You may want to rephrase that last part. No, Paul doesn’t OWN the number now, but maybe the fans in bleacher 39 consider it theirs? Right or wrong, they got defensive about because it represented something, an issue that shouldn’t have been broached by a one year journey man rental player. If Hawkins stays and helps win 4 titles, then he can have the number back. Sound reasonable?

  247. Jimw April 16th, 2008 at 11:11 am

    Has anyone noticed how widespread “booing” is now. It has spread across all sports now over the last 5-6 years. I’m embarrassed to say it but I think widespread booing became popular b/c of Yankee Stadium. I grew up in the 70′s and 80′s and I don’t remember all this non-stop booing in sports. Now fans boo an athlete for having 2 bad days. Whats next booing a 7 year old kid for striking out in a little league game. I think booing is losers trying to bring winners down to their level.

  248. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 11:12 am

    Standing ONeill,

    No disagreement here. I haven;t even voiced my personal views here, just saying what I think the majority of fans think.

    I think fans in general just really care how the team performs rather than if they are good people. I certainly can see fans not cheering on these people. I don’t like it when the Yankees sign jerks like Sheffield.

    My only point on the number thing was that the fans don’t want some scrub taking a legend’s number, no matter how awesome of a guy he is.

    Fans can say how great of a guy he is, and Pete can write all the great stories about how he accommodated Scott Patterson when he was cut. I’m sure that Hawkins is really a good guy.

    But fans want someone great to take the number if it’s going to be taken. I don’t think the number should be retired. I just think that they want someone better to wear the jersey, that’s all.

  249. Kill-Schill(ing) April 16th, 2008 at 11:12 am

    Was it Doreen? Well not as widely reported, perhaps, as it should have been. I recall an entry from Pete about why Hawkins wore the number but not the reason behind it. Perhaps, the YES announcers should have explained, especially because O’Neill is one of their broadcasters.

    But then again, I rarely pay attention to such things because I couldn’t care less. To me, wearing another person’s number honors them and their career; it doesn’t defile it.

    But then again, I also think it bad etiquette to jeer any Yankee, ever, not even Farnsworth.

    In 2006, I wanted to excommunicate all the yahoos that tormented A-Rod.

    Unfortunately, I’m not Pope of the Yankees however. And anyway, Yankees Universe, unlike Red Sux nation, is a democracy.

    We’ll always have to endure the yahoos. So raise your voice and shout over them.

  250. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 11:13 am

    CB,

    Get over it.

  251. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 11:16 am

    Kill Schill(ing) –

    I’m with ya! Unfortunately most reasonable people don’t SHOUT. :)

  252. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 11:16 am

    Like I said, what if Joba Chamberlain took 21 tomorrow. How do you think the fans would react? You think they would chant Paul O’Neill at Joba Chamberlain and tell him that he sucks?

  253. CB April 16th, 2008 at 11:16 am

    Andrew,

    You actually used oreo as a term to analyze race. You wrote. You decided to share it with the world on your blog.

    You called Jeter an Oreo while at the same time proudly showing his picture on your site. That kind of ingnorance is astonishing.

    And now you’re trying to play it off as a joke? That is unbelievably weak.

  254. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Andrew, it wasn’t funny.

    Next time I go to a game, and Hawkins is pitching, I’ll start chanting his name. Ridiculous the #@$$ he’s had to put up with.

  255. wheelZ April 16th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    and no, pauly doesn’t deserve his # to be retired.

  256. rodg12 April 16th, 2008 at 11:17 am

    craig-
    Rizutto was also an OUTSTANDING defensive player. Offense is only half the story, especially where we’re talking SS in the 40s. At that time, defense was valued more highly than offense at that position. Reggie Jackson is a Hall of Famer and made a HUGE impact on the Yankees. O’Neill was a great player, but he never hit 3 HRs in a WS game like Jackson did.

  257. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 11:18 am

    But andrew if its not retired, anyone can wear it. And if its not retired, that player really couldn’t have been “that” great. I understand what you’re saying, and its really silly that some fans think that way. A number doesn’t make the player, and if a number is what you need(not you andrew, people in general) to remember how good a player was, then that is just sad IMO.

    I know i’m in the minority when I say I rather win with a group of people that I can cheer for than not win at all with a group of jerks. Kind of why I was glad the Hughes trade for santana didn’t go down (among other reasons as well), as its nice to root for the underdog every once in awhile. (btw I just realized that sentence may come off as me saying I think Santana is a jerk, not at all. I’m just saying Hughes seems like a nice guy, and I’d like to see him succeed).

    I respect the Andy Phillips, Aaron Smalls and Latroy Hawkins of world, and will always cheer for them…unless they are red sox :)

  258. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 11:18 am

    I found this interesting…

    ” Hawkins, who is African-American, wore No. 42 last year for the Rockies, the lone player wearing that number for Colorado.”

    So only one player from the Rockies wore 42 on JR Day last year? That’s very telling.

  259. John C April 16th, 2008 at 11:19 am

    I think a lot of you are missing the point. This is actually showing (in a manner of speaking) how amazing it is to be a Yankee. If you perform in New York, you will NEVER be forgotten.

    I am one of the biggest O’Neill fans there is (autographed jerseys, books, bats, baseballs, pictures, etc.), but if his number isn’t retired, it’s up for grabs.

    I will never say that I am ashamed to be a Yankee fan because of what happened. This just shows how loyal we all are!! I don’t think a Red Sox fan would boo if someone donned Mo Vaughn’s number or Perdo’s number… Would they??

    Hawkins should have understood the situation, and how passionate Yankee fans feel about Paulie. He should have tuned out the boo’s and performed. Everything would have subsided. Did you see A-Rod shy away from everything when he got booed 2 years ago?? No, he proved that he was worthy of his price tag.

    I love Paulie and I love being a Yankee fan. There is NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF!!

  260. randy l April 16th, 2008 at 11:19 am

    240 responses( and counting) to this issue shows people care about the issue.
    i’ll be honest that this whole thing didn’t even enter on my radar, but it ‘s obvious that it matters to people ,so the yankees need to do some work on the issue.

    if the present red sox management were having this problem, they be thinking, “how can i create a revenue stream out of this?”

    the yankees should approach it in a similar but more classy way. it’s part of the yankee brand. it creates interest and discussion. again look at the number of posts here.

    as an aside i vote for retiring “sj44″ on this blog. once he’s done posting that is.

  261. murphydog April 16th, 2008 at 11:20 am

    Yeah, Andrew, referring to an African American as an “oreo” is a real funny joke. You obviously have the journalistic and literary chops to handle material like that so we should just “relax.” Thats a punk move, Andrew. Plain and simple. You are just another immature, senseless young man hiding on the internet behind some bland website design. And as for your earlier reply to me, you’re still missing the point.

    Giambi wasn’t cheered by the fans for using steroids. He was cheered because he did the right thing, he took responsibility and admitted what he did was wrong. Gooden and Straw were not cheered for using drugs, they were cheered for admitting and fighting their addictions and coming back, although regrettably, not without relapse. Mantle was cheered at a time when drinking to excess was considered manly and now we know better. The Mick copped to his errors before he died.

    I hope you have a similar epiphany because you really don’t have a clue, son.

  262. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 11:23 am

    I noticed Hawkins didn’t wear 42 last night. If he wore it last year I wonder why he passed on it yesterday. especially since he is the only african american on the yankees. Just found that a little interesting. I really hope it doesn’t have anything to do with this whole number controversy, but Im sure Im just looking at this too deeply.

  263. EricVA April 16th, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Randy l-

    That’s insane! While SJ44 is a spirited, intelligent and informed part of this blog, he’s not a HOF blogger and therefore his handle is free for anybody to use! I, for one, will use it when he leaves. You can boo me if you want.

    Sorry I couldn’t help myself. I think Pete needs to post something new.

  264. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    CB, Sorry for the Oreo joke. I should have been more sensitive. I definitely will edit the post, as I didn’t really mean to offend anyone. It was stupid. Thanks for going to the blog.

    Standing ONeill,

    Great discussion. I am with you on that anyone can take the number when they leave it open. It’s a shame the fans are taking it out on Hawkins, but that’s New York and that’s the fans. It’s silly that he didn’t know this.

    That’s the reality of it. The majority of New York fans, especially since there are so many, are casual and unreasonable. If it’s cool to boo, they’ll do it.

    It was probably only a few people who started the Paul O’Neill chants, and then others thought it was funny, until it spread throughout the stadium.

    But that’s how it is, and always will be.

  265. Mark Alan April 16th, 2008 at 11:25 am

    Does Paul O’Neil work for the Yankees? If not, he had no responsibility to say a word.

    I agree that the fans were classless, even disruptive of their team, but I’d like to think that LaTroy would understand that the vast majority of Yankees fans support him whatever number he is wearing and want to see him succeed. Booing happens in sports, often for the most stupid of reasons, and the athletes have to learn to block it.

    If O’Neil’s number is retired, it will be for the right reasons, not because of some loud, obnoxious fans who booed their own team.

  266. Yazman April 16th, 2008 at 11:26 am

    Peter, I hope you can pass along the well wishes of the majority of fans here who root for Hawkins whatever number he wears.

  267. Frank April 16th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    this disgusts me…this does NOT represent the class that the yankees show us everyday.

  268. rodg12 April 16th, 2008 at 11:27 am

    Mark Alan – O’Neill works for YES broadcasting games, therefore he works for the Yankees.

  269. Jeff NJ April 16th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Ok time for my two cents. I think Hawkins made the first mistake as a new player with a mediocre baseball reputation in choosing that number. He can’t claim ignorance either as Ensberg dropped it first. Let’s not forget the only reason Hawkins was signed was because he would accept a one year deal. I’ll be shocked if he is resigned. Of course some fans take things too far, but I think Hawkins bares the responsibility.

    Should the number be retired? Actually I think it should. I mean how many are we talking about from this era? O’Neill, Bernie, Mariano, Jeter, Jorge, Pettitte and maybe A Rod when all is said and done. Who cares? There are never more than 40 players in uniform at one time anyway. The Yankees may just have to get creative down the road with their numbering, but if it means dynasty’s and championships, so be it.

  270. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 11:29 am

    I wonder if the fans would react differently if Latroy was good. I dont think its fair that he’s boo’d, but since he sucks, I can understand why some fans might be mad.

  271. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 11:30 am

    murphydog -

    You are on target with the support of Giambi, et al. Although I do still believe that people are able to separate cheering for a player as opposed to a person (compartmentalizing), it’s also true that people love to be able to forgive.

    (And forgive me, from the same song writer in the same show: “The most celebrated are the rehabilitated.)

  272. CB April 16th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    Andrew,

    Please don’t thank me for going to your blog. I thought it was really tasteless and sort of disgusting.

    I don’t buy your whole stance on this all being a joke at all.

    People who make racist comments always take that same tactic – play it off as a joke, I didn’t really mean it, I’m sorry if I offended anyone, etc., etc. One excuse after another.

    It was pretty clear from your blog that you write what you believe and don’t pull punches.

    So please don’t thank me.

    You have a blog and you can write anything you want. You can choose to share whatever you want about yourself with the entire world.

    I only clicked that link because I figured it would give me some insight into what you were writing here.

    It did.

  273. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 11:31 am

    Murphydog (Dad),

    Thanks for letting me know where you’ve been all these years. I’ll be sure to let mom know.

    Secondly, did you really just write this?

    “Giambi wasn’t cheered by the fans for using steroids. He was cheered because he did the right thing, he took responsibility and admitted what he did was wrong.”

    Do I really need to post all of the stories in which Giambi denied use of PEDs? He got caught, Dad. He confessed when he was under oath and threatened with jail time.

    We cheered him to support him because we needed his bat in the lineup.

    It’s the same with Pettitte. Pettitte was caught. He lied and cheated on numerous occaisons.

    And please, don’t question my journalistic ability. I do the blog for fun. I’m not going for any Pullitzers there.

    And please, don’t call me son. Your name-calling and attacking me is an extremely poor reflection on your intellect.

  274. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    CB,

    Better yet, he should bring that photo of he and Jeter, and the accompanying comment, and see if Derek thinks its a “joke”.

    What’s a joke is that he thinks we will believe he was just joking.

    Sad, just plain sad.

    Randy,

    I’m not a good enough poster to have my number retired. I’m a nice .280-.290 hitter who, like O’Neill, gets benched against certain lefty hitters. Certainly not deserving of a retired number ceremony.

  275. murphydog April 16th, 2008 at 11:33 am

    Doreen:

    I understand that it’s natural to overlook things in order to see what we want. If not for the ability to compartmentalize the divorce rate would be 100% instead of 60% :)

    I just don’t believe that Yankee fans are so cynical that they would cheer a child molester as long as he had gap power and blazing speed.

  276. Real World April 16th, 2008 at 11:35 am

    I haven’t read the 130+ posts before this, but I have to disagree with Pete Abraham on this one. Paul O’Niell is someone that Yankees fans respect tremendously. His number shouldn’t be handed out to journeymen relievers. The guy was a winner, and a champion, which is what the fans of this franchise have always appreciated. It’s not that the Yankees have to retire PO’s #, as much as they need to give it to someone worthy of wearing it. This is more about respecting, and paying thanks to O’Niell, than it is about Hawkins. Latroy should know, understand, and appreciate that. Fans here are passionate, and love a winner. If you’re think skinned, don’t play here. That’s what Hawkins can tell potential free agents. That if you prove yourself, and win, you’ll be remembered and respected forever. If not, go play in Pittsburg, or for the Giants.

  277. Kill-Schill(ing) April 16th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    I’m going to give Andrew a break.

    On his blog, he looks like a 13-year-old kid.

    At thirteen, I was prone to saying stupid, provocative things to gain people’s attention. I’ll attribute his Oreo comment to being juvenile.

    Andrew, your blog is fairly well written and your entry about the declining number of Black in baseball is subject that deserves greater scrutiny. So I only would hope you are more discriminating in your choice of words next time.

    Jeter didn’t take too kindly to Sheffield’s remark about his bi-racial heritage. And I’m sure Jeter wouldn’t be too eager to pose for any more photographs with you if he knew you referred to him via a slur that slights the authenticity of his racial identity and mocks his parentage.

    Making a comment like that to the black people I know with white parents would necessitate a visit to the local dentist afterward.

  278. CB April 16th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    “And please, don’t call me son. Your name-calling and attacking me is an extremely poor reflection on your intellect.”

    And calling Derek Jeter an oreo while you have a picture of you and him blazed on top of your blog -

    How does that reflect on your “intellect?”

  279. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 11:36 am

    murphydog -

    I would certainly hope not!

  280. murphydog April 16th, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Andrew:

    You have always been a great embarrassment to your mother and I. That’s why I left.

    Dad.

  281. CB April 16th, 2008 at 11:38 am

    “On his blog, he looks like a 13-year-old kid.”

    True – but Jeter also looks like he’s in his early to mid 20′s in the photo.

  282. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 11:40 am

    SJ: But you have an unparalleled ability to hit in the clutch.

  283. randy l April 16th, 2008 at 11:40 am

    “That’s insane! While SJ44 is a spirited, intelligent and informed part of this blog, he’s not a HOF blogger and therefore his handle is free for anybody to use! I, for one, will use it when he leaves.”
    eric va-
    you idiot. booing is not enough for you. what are you ? some kind of red sox fan?
    just kidding of course. have to make that clear you never know.

    andrew-
    good apology.

  284. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    Murphydog and SJ44,

    If you are going to try to tell me to grow up with the racial comments, which I have fully admitted to as being wrong, then why don’t you seriously cut it out with the “son” stuff. Seriously, you guys look like idiots.

    I’ve apologized for the comment. It was stupid. If you want to keep harping on it, by all means. Go for it.
    I’m going to talk Yankees now.

  285. ANSKY April 16th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    I’m also a fan of Paul O’Neill, but I agree his number shouldn’t be retired.

    There should be a way he can say something making it so fans brainless will accept someone wearing 21.

    Thinking with the ‘retire 21′ argument in mind (which is not my opinion) that’s not to say his number won’t ever get retired. Guys have worn other retired numbers between the time the ‘retired’ player quits and the time their numbers have been retired. How long was it before Maris’ no 9 was retired? Did anybody boo Nettles for wearing it? How about Bill Dickey / Yogi Berra’s 8? This booing of Hawkins is wrong. He’s respecting Roberto Clemente, a great player. Why the heck not?

    Thinking with the ‘don’t retire every good player’s number’ argument in mind, there are too many retired numbers. It’s too easy. Length of service, percentage of a career in pinstripes, hall of fame election … these have to be factors. Winning the world series or not shouldn’t make it a given that someone’s number gets retired or not. This is my opinion.

    Some examples –

    Reggie – he spent more time in Oakland than in NY. His NY regular season stats were just pretty good. His role in two WS wins (one in particular) were exceptional but how much of his numberic retirement was actually tied to those 3 pitches he faced in one WS game?

    Guidry – a few very good of great seasons, with one truly spectacular one. How long was he that good?

    Martin – how many times was he fired? Was he that good of a player when he played? Was retiring no 1 sort of an apology for being fired so much?

    Maris – 61 in ’61 was a magical season. Again, how long was he that good?

    Mattingly – The character and the numbers were there, but was it for long enough? He’s a borderline call. That his teams never won a WS title shouldn’t have anything to do with it.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think they all have their place in Yankee lore. I respect them all a lot. To retire all their numbers is a little too much though. Of them, Mattingly would be the toughest to say it should have been decide against. Actually, I’m on the fence with him. The others are a step short.

    Another example I’ve mentioned before:

    Wade Boggs hit over .350 for a whole decade in Boston, a decade by the end of which he had the 4th highest career batting average … EVER … in ML history. Yet his no 26 will never be retired in Boston. Playing for NY is probably a factor there but he played 10 years and was THAT good. I say keep the standards that high. What do they have, like two retired numbers in Fenway? Should they start retiring the numbers of the mercenaries that won in ’04 or ’07? I think not.

    Of course NY has historically been a more successful team with better players and bigger legends, but NY should have half as many retired numbers as they do now. That would still be a lot of numbers.

  286. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    You shouldn’t have to be a HOF type player to wear 21 after O’Neil but you should be required to at least punch one water cooler and kick one baseball in play in the outfield before you even think about.

    Neither have been done yet, very disappointing.

  287. grob April 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    I hear that when a sports writer whines about something a “vonage ad” gets it’s wings!

  288. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Hey Guys….from my discussion with Andrew above he seems like a smart guy. I think we can all agree that the oreo comment was extremely stupid and I think he knows that now. He apologized so can we move on and let it go?

  289. CB April 16th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    “Jeter didn’t take too kindly to Sheffield’s remark about his bi-racial heritage. And I’m sure Jeter wouldn’t be too eager to pose for any more photographs with you if he knew you referred to him via a slur that slights the authenticity of his racial identity and mocks his parentage.”

    This is a great point. It’s remarkable when you place something in the context of history how different remarks and opinions look.

    That whole Jeter – Sheffield situation was one of the most unpleasant part’s of Sheffield’s entire tenure here. It caused a huge storm for days all across New York.

    Jeter is very private – we all know that – and he doesn’t let anyone inside his private space. Doesn’t show anger, doesn’t talk about his inner life.

    But that situation with Sheffield talking about his parents was one of the few times that Jeter actually showed himself being upset and angry. That was a very unusual thing for Jeter.

    And here we have Andrew – someone whose website is dedicated to jeter calling him an “oreo” completely unaware of that history – how upset and angry Jeter was with Sheffield of speaking about his bi-racial heritage in a derogatory way.

    That’s just remarkable – how people just forget. And then say they are joking instead.

  290. Don April 16th, 2008 at 11:44 am

    I remember #14 Bill “Moose” Skowron!

  291. Steph April 16th, 2008 at 11:45 am

    I completely agree. It makes me sad to think that some people treated him in the way they did. I loved Paulie, but his number wasn’t retired and Hawkins wanted to wear it to honour a great man.

  292. murphydog April 16th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Andrew:

    “Murphydog and SJ44,

    If you are going to try to tell me to grow up with the racial comments, which I have fully admitted to as being wrong, then why don’t you seriously cut it out with the “son” stuff. Seriously, you guys look like idiots.”

    That’s the problem with people like you, who write before they think. You like to be provocative, you like to upset people, you like the attention until it gets negative and then you’re the victim. You’re the one who looks bad for writing what you wrote and even worse for whining when you are called on it. Man up like Giambi did.

    I’m done slamming you for now.

  293. nettles April 16th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Just for fun, I pulled a list of all the players to wear #21 for the Bombers.

    http://yankeenumbers.com/playe.....=%3D%2C%2C

    Spud Chandler wore #21 for the Yankees from 1938-1947 – save for a couple of years – including 1943 when he was the AL MVP. He’s the only Yankee pitcher to win the award. He pitched 11 seasons in MLB, all with the Yanks and was a three-time all-star. He retired with a .717 win pct. and a 2.84 ERA, and a 109-43 W-L record.

    http://www.baseball-reference......sp01.shtml

    If the Yankees aren’t retiring the number for Chandler (and they shouldn’t), retiring it for Paulie isn’t even an issue.

  294. Fernando Alejandro (Respect Jeter's Gangster) April 16th, 2008 at 11:47 am

    As great as Paul O’Niell was, I just can’t agree that Hawkins doesn’t deserve to have his number. Besides, he was wearing it to honor a much better player than Paul O’Niell. That’s not a shot at Paulie, but more a testament to how good Clemente was. This whole “Hawkins doesn’t deserve to wear Paul’s number” argument is ridiculous. It should never have come to this.

  295. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 11:47 am

    I’m not going to apologize anymore, really. I’ve done it already.

    And for those who haven;t visited, my blog is not “dedicated” to calling Jeter an oreo. It was a stupid, thoughtless remark on a post that really wasn’t all that researched or well-written.

  296. JULIAN April 16th, 2008 at 11:48 am

    I’m one of those fans who thinks that #21 should be retired, but it was wrong for the fans who booed Hawkins. It wasn’t his fault. The person to boo was Cashman or whoever in the Yankees front office decided to avail #21.
    But I also don’t like the way O’Neill handled it – he really should’ve had the guts to tell fans to knock it off but instead he showed his ego.

  297. Jeff NJ April 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    I just read in the Daily News article that Hawkins is changing his number after Mariano and Jeter came to him and asked him to change. That to me sorta justifies the fans reaction a bit, no?

  298. Jeff NJ April 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    I just read in the Daily News article that Hawkins is changing his number after Mariano and Jeter came to him and asked him to change. That to me sorta justifies the fans reaction a bit, no?

  299. CB April 16th, 2008 at 11:49 am

    “Seriously, you guys look like idiots.”

    Murphydog and SJ44 are hands down two of the best posters on this board.

    They don’t look like idiots in anyway.

  300. Ronnie April 16th, 2008 at 11:51 am

    Did you guys see this?1?

    A Mets fan fell off Shea escalater two stories and died

    http://tinyurl.com/5zag4b

  301. ItalianGreco April 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    I just hope Hawkins pitches better, I don’t care what number he wears.

    Lets get this 2 game sweep of the sux.

    Go Yankees!!!

  302. Wow April 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    Wow – Andrew and craig, you’re both imbeciles. Please go away.

    Roberto Clemente >>>>>> Paul O’Neill.

    Next time Paul O’Neill’s on the field for any reason, I’m going to chant ‘LaTroy Hawkins!’

  303. CB April 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    “I just read in the Daily News article that Hawkins is changing his number after Mariano and Jeter came to him and asked him to change.”

    No – they advised him to change it because they thought it would be the only way for him to get that vocal minority of fans off of his back.

    They basically told him that he needed to be pragmatic and give up – and he did.

    That’s what makes it even worse.

  304. Jimw April 16th, 2008 at 11:53 am

    I’m sure all those jerks at the stadium will “boo” Hughes if he continues to struggle. Back in the day if a “star athlete” was in a prolonged slump and and just struck out again a stadium would be in stunned silence. Now its like everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting for a star to fail so they can all stand up a boo someone off the field. That drives me nuts. I live in Ohio and could only dream of going to the stadium to see a game and you locals go and boo your favorite team. I know its a few bad apples but still. I’m a bit off topic but the booing ticks me off.

  305. randy l April 16th, 2008 at 11:54 am

    skowron was no doubt a key yankee player in the mantle era. great yankee teams always have this kind of guy on the team.

  306. Barry April 16th, 2008 at 11:54 am

    I honestly think it would be different if it wasn’t some MR we picked up from free Agency. Someone who had a future with the team I don’t think the majority of us who were against him wearing the number would complain if it was someone who was here to stay.

  307. Rishi April 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    jeff – they didn’t ask him to change it, they told him it was not with the harrassment/fan reaction

  308. V April 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    “I’m sure all those jerks at the stadium will “boo” Hughes if he continues to struggle. Back in the day if a “star athlete” was in a prolonged slump and and just struck out again a stadium would be in stunned silence. Now its like everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting for a star to fail so they can all stand up a boo someone off the field. That drives me nuts. I live in Ohio and could only dream of going to the stadium to see a game and you locals go and boo your favorite team. I know its a few bad apples but still. I’m a bit off topic but the booing ticks me off.”

    Agreed, and it’s disgusting.

  309. CountryClub April 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    I can’t believe this topic is still being discussed two and a half hours later. Does anyone want to discuss baseball?

  310. Rishi April 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    sorry, that should be not worth

  311. dadofjft April 16th, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Don,

    And were all the Gene Woodling fans giving Moose grief?

  312. V April 16th, 2008 at 11:56 am

    “I can’t believe this topic is still being discussed two and a half hours later. Does anyone want to discuss baseball?”

    The Yankees won last night. Not much for people to complain about.

  313. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Anyone going to the game tonight?

  314. Jeff NJ April 16th, 2008 at 11:58 am

    CB, where’d you hear that? Is that the whole truth or includes some speculation.

    Also, I just read Andrew’s article, let’s not miss his point though, the only players on the Yankees who qualify as African American I guess are Hawkins and Jeter. Of course that doesn’t count Latinos which are made up of all ethnicities. Makes counting exercises like these pretty meaningless.

  315. murphydog April 16th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    CB:

    Including me in your thoughts was gracious, thanks, but I am not in the same baseball class as SJ (and he is certainly not an idiot by any stretch).

    And, while I’m at it, I have been most informed and entertained by your contributions. I’m very glad to see your posts when they appear and I believe they are right there with SJ’s. Please keep it up.

  316. CountryClub April 16th, 2008 at 11:59 am

    We have Wang vs. the kid tonight. Which team has the edge? The Sox generally play well against Wang and will now need to adjust to his slight change of style. The yanks get their second crack at Buckholtz. I would think the Yanks have a slightly bigger edge. Thoughts?

  317. CB April 16th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    “And for those who haven;t visited, my blog is not “dedicated” to calling Jeter an oreo.”

    This is correct.

    I didn’t place hyphen in what I typed before and that made it seem like I was saying that Andrew site was dedicated to calling Jeter an oreo.

    This is what I meant to write:

    “And here we have Andrew – someone whose website is dedicated to jeter – calling him an “oreo” completely unaware of that history – how upset and angry Jeter was with Sheffield of speaking about his bi-racial heritage in a derogatory way.

  318. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    FYI- I edited “Oreo” out of the post to “half” Just so everyone knows, I wrote Oreo at first, it was wrong. I changed it to half, so I apologize again.

  319. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Jeff that is not true it was the other way around he went to them and asked their opinions. To tell you the truth as I said yesterday this is just a sad sad thing on many levels. I have never done this before but I am very tempted to write Hawkins a letter and let him know my thoughts on the subject (without of course mentioning O’Neil and his lack of stepping up). He (Hawkins) is a stand up guy between what he did for Patterson, what I read about him in terms of his visits to the Negro Baseball Hall of Fame and with Buck O’Neil on the many times he came to Kansas City etc it is sad that in wanting to honor Roberto Clemente it came down to this.

    Also Stick Michael was on XM this morning and was interesting to hear what he said about the kids and Joba.Basically said we just have to let the kids pitch and there stuff will come through in other words they have to work it out on the mound. he also was not so quick to jump on the Joba to starter bandwagon. He didn’t say he shouldnt be a starter just that he is thriving in this role and that with him back there it is the way it was in the 90′s with Mo onto Wettland etc.

  320. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Bucholz did pretty well last time. Yanks have the edge unless they figure out Wang but judging from Wang’s last 3 starts there is no reason to expect they will.

  321. stuart April 16th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    Newsfalsh, I loved O’neil as a player but he is not a HOF or have his # retired type of player… Neither is Jorge, or many others.

    Munsons # is retired because he was a very good player, the Capt., and died tragically while playing for the Yankees. If people cannot see why Munsons # is retired and not O’neils they are not too bright.

    Hawkins is known around baseball as a really good guy and deserved much better.. He is such a good guy that he buckled to moronic fan sentiment.

    I read the Yankee fans have been through so much they have not won since 2000, are you on drugs? I am a huge Yankee fan as well as Knicks, rangers,etc.

    The Knicks have not won since 1973!!!!!! Us poor Yankee fans it has been 7 yrs. of heartache, give me a friggin break, be a CLipper fan or a Pirate fan you will understand despair.

    Let’s agree the fans who booed and taunted Hawkins are idiots and O’neill should have said something.. This episode makes Yankee fans or some look petty and foolish, which they are……..

  322. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

    “I just hope Hawkins pitches better, I don’t care what number he wears.”

    Four straight scoreless outings, totaling 5 innings including three against the sox.

    Sounds better to me.

  323. CB April 16th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    “Also, I just read Andrew’s article, let’s not miss his point though, the only players on the Yankees who qualify as African American I guess are Hawkins and Jeter.”

    No. That was not the point of the article. The point of the article was that there was only one true African-American player on the yankees – LaPaul O’Neil” (please note – andrew does not use Hawkins given name on his site. He only derisively refers to him as ‘LaPaul O’Neil’ and that’s why I’m quoting that direct name.)

    Andrew draws a distinction between “LaPaul” and Jeter saying that while “LaPaul” counts as an African-American palyer Jeter does not because he is an “oreo.”

    According to Andrew “oreos” don’t count with regards to being considered African-American baseball players.

    That’s exactly what the post says.

  324. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    Gayle,

    Great post and great info about Stick.

  325. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    FWIW, before I go to class:

    Hawkins’ actions off the field this year, even things that seem as minor as comforting Patterson after he didn’t make the cut or walking around in a JOBA RULES shirt makes me glad he’s on the team.

    We need more guys like that in the world, not just on our team.

  326. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

    “with him back there it is the way it was in the 90’s with Mo onto Wettland etc.”

    Gah! More fodder for M&MD. If Mo had the arsenal Joba has, Mo’d be a starter to this day.

  327. Rich April 16th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Cb- why dont you let it go with the oreo thing and go back to what you do best- giving sj44 a good sack licking because he’s such a godly poster.

  328. randy l April 16th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    andrew-
    cb,murphydog, and cb are all right in what they told you. it’s you who needs to give it up.

    from wikepedia-
    “Uncle Tom is a pejorative for an African American who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to White American authority figures”
    “A similar term for black people is Oreo, implying that one is black on the outside but white on the inside like an Oreo cookie.”

    it’s clear you didn’t understand what you were saying. you do now. you apologized to your credit.
    defiance isn’t part of apologizing. consider it a lesson learned and move on.

  329. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    CB,

    No it doesn’t at all. Re-read it. I am saying that there are only TWO people on the Yankees that qualify as African-American, and that number is pretty shockingly low. I linked to the article with the study! How can you possibly miss the point?

  330. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    Whozat I am not agreeing lol just thought it was interesting.

  331. Brian April 16th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

    Finally Hawkins does something good.

    #21 Paul O’Neil forever in our hearts, forever a Yankee

  332. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

    Something interesting in Pete’s story today (Today in the Journal News notebook). Shelley Duncan has been speaking everyday with Kevin Long. How great is that and tell you a lot not only about Shelley Duncan but about Kevin Long.

  333. Laura April 16th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    “The Yankees won last night. Not much for people to complain about.”

    Are you kidding? What about all of those men they left on base? That is something to complain about. So far, this team is not clutch. It’s still early, but they need to get going.

  334. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Yeah andrew im going tonight. should be fun

  335. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    I’m out to lunch. Hope everyone has a great day. I’ll be at the ballgame. Let’s Go Yanks!

    FYI, there are still tix available on Ticketmaster.

  336. S.A.-Phil Hughes is Saved and will be fine! Goodness.. April 16th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    Shame on the fans who booed Hawkins because he wore #21..
    It really was pathetic

  337. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

    O’Neil where you sitting? I might have my bosses seats… which everyone is going to find funny, are right next to Derek Jeter’s parents’ seats.

  338. V April 16th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    Rich, Hugh, Brian, Andrew, and craig, please all go away.

  339. Big Stein April 16th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    What happened to Hawkins was surely undeserved, even after his awful start. On the other hand, what I’m starting against Kyle Farnsworth is surely DESERVED. I’ve started a petition on facebook to get him traded, come join if you want him off the team, I would suspect it is the majority.

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14403842050

  340. cj April 16th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    The way the Sox are eating up bullpens has me hoping for another Wang (aka Yankee Ace) complete game.

  341. Jimw April 16th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    You guys have fun…Don’t forget to “boo” your favorite team

  342. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    O’Neil where you sitting? I might have my bosses seats… which everyone is going to find funny, are right next to Derek Jeter’s parents’ seats.

    I’m out in right field, few rows back from the front. You get used to the bleachers, its a good seat IMO.

  343. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    Andrew,

    What are the Jeter’s like during the game? We always see clips of them celebrating, but is his dad always cheering, or does he keep quiet? Also the most important question is, do they boo A-rod? lol

  344. Michael Turro April 16th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    If Don Mattingly gets his number retired, Paul O’Neill gets his number retired. If Reggie Jackson gets his number retired Paul O’Neill gets his number retired. If Ron Guidry gets his number retired, Paul O’Neill gets his number retired. Simple as that.

    Come on people… this man was a MAJOR part of FOUR YANKEE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. Give it up an pay him his respect! The Yankees should have never let Hawkins have the option of wearing #21… Girardi, Jeter, Cashman, somebody should have sat him down and explained the probable controversy, the distraction it would be.

    Oh well, I guess all is better now that Hawkins wants to wear #51.

  345. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Also when the Yankees win, does Mr. Jeter do the fist pump?

  346. Fredo Corleone April 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    Laura:

    Yankees will always be among the league leaders in men left on base. You know why?? Because they’ll be among the league leaders in GETTING ON BASE. When this is true, a high number of LOBs will certainly follow.

  347. Will April 16th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

    Keep in mind that numbers were created for the fans, not for players. The reason players wear numbers is so they can be indentified by those watching games…not so they can offer tributes to their heroes. Fans have every right to be emotionally attached to a number as do players, especially when the players do not have a long-term commitment to the team.

  348. G. Love April 16th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Pete,

    I’m sorry, but you’re completely off the mark. Paul O’Neil was an integral part of FOUR world championship Yankee teams. His #21 will always be his to this generation of Yankee fans.

    He didn’t earn that honor by being a pretty good OF’er, he earned it by being one of the emotional leaders of one of the best runs and teams in Yankee history.

    Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter weren’t half the emotional leaders that O’Neil was.

    If the fans feel it’s too soon to see another player wear 21 they have every right to feel that way.

    Latroy Hawkins should have known better and the fact that O’neil didn’t come out and give his blessing makes it even more spurious why Hawkins felt the need to slap that number on his back. O’neil is constantly around the team. You think Hawkins might have asked him if he had any beef with it?

    No, Hawkins jumps out and throws Clemente out there in the hopes that it will grant him a pass.

    Show me the interview from the past with Hawkins where he mentions his love for Clemente and his need to honor him.

    I hope they retire 21 and if they do, Yankee fans will cheer their hearts out for O’neil.

    This whole flap with Hawkins is a blip on the radar.

  349. Anthony April 16th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    Typical Pete Abraham overreaction. Try to temper a little bit, why don’t you? This is completely overblown and it’s not going to spell the end of Yankee success. Be careful what you wish for? Oh no! If they retire Paul O’Neil’s number, who knows what terrible things might happen? Maybe next they’ll retire Billy Crystal’s number too and hire Osama bin Laden as a Special Instructor! HAHAHA Please.

  350. TO April 16th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Pete get off your soap box. If the guy would show up he could wear whatever # he wants. Joba could wear #3 right now and nobody would care.

  351. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    Michael,

    Winning championships is a team effort, a player shouldn’t have his number retired because he was part of that team. Having your number retired is an indivdual achievement, and O’Neill wasn’t a legendary yankee player. He was a very good player on a team. He ahs been honored many times by the team and the fans. Thats more than enough IMO to keep his legacy alive. Retired numbers should be for the best of the best.

    People may disagree with me, but O’Neill’s career as a yankee reminds me a lot of Nettles. Both emotional leaders and connected with the fans. We will alwyas love those players, but they were what they were, key team players, not legends.

  352. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    Looks like it is spring break on this blog. All the chicken littles are out of school this week.

  353. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    How so jennifer?

  354. Chas April 16th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

    Only now are some of you ashamed to be a Yankees fan? The loud ones have been obnoxious and small-minded for years! I’ve been on vacations and people from other places who have visited Yankee Stadium have gotten a skewed opinion on Yankee fans — in a bad way. Since then, I’ve had to put a disclaimer: I’m a rational Yankees fan who despises a lot of Yankees fans.

  355. Fredo Corleone April 16th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    Pete T:

    I agree on Jackson, who was a much better player while winning 3 titles with the A’s than he was with the Yanks. He should not have his number retired.

    Guidry and Mattingly were outstanding players who spent their entire careers as Yankees. Maybe a little too much sentimentality where Mattingly goes, but he was a career Yankee and on his way to an HOF-level career had the back held up. I can live with those two being retired.

    O’Neill was a terrific player, but a cog in the machine. He spent a large chunk of his career in Cincy and even won a Series with the Reds. I don’t think he fits the bill.

    Of course, aside from the Boston Celtics, nobody is more liberal in retiring numbers than the Yankees, so who knows?

  356. Fredo Corleone April 16th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    Standing O:

    Like the Nettles/O’Neill comparison. Well done.

  357. Eric April 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Pete, I agree with you on all points except… Shouldn’t most of the blame for this ridiculousness be placed on the Yankees organization for not deciding on the retirement status of O’Neill’s # with in the 6+ years since he played his last game? If they just announced their intentions, one way or the other, this mess would’ve been avoided. While I still don’t trust him on the mound, you’ve certainly portrayed Hawkins to be one of the classier major league ball players, and I feel bad he had to deal with this situation.

  358. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    2 ways to fix this Hawkins problem.

    1.Have Oneil before a game on the pitchers mound put the jersey on Hawkins like the nfl draft.

    2.Have Hawkins wear 21 with Clemente name on the back.

    Iv read all the pounding on Andrew. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I have a question though. My wife is half black and that makes my kids a quarter black. Are they not considered black?

  359. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    StandingO’Neil

    Read up and see some of the stupid posts. I’m not talking about the regulars.

  360. Fredo Corleone April 16th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Eric:

    I think the fact the Yanks allowed Hawkins to wear #21 speaks rather loudly about their intentions.

  361. William Buckner April 16th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    I wish in the new stadium they’d do away with the whole “retired number” thing. Have monuments remembering the great yankees. Just as practice, don’t issue ruth, gerig, mantle, demagio, and munson (not for career, more in thanks for his yankee contributions and nature of death).

    As for our fans, they are no worse then Mets, Sox, Phillies. This is what it means to have a passionate fan base. You learn to take the good with the bad. Really dumb to boo your own fans, but too many of our fans either knew or remember pre 96.

  362. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    Eric,

    By them not retiring the jersey in 6 years, I think thats an annoucement in its own that they don’t plan on retiring it anytime soon. If they were telling players not to use it, thats a different story. But for all we know, it was always avaliable, its just that no one else choose to wear 21. Thats not the fault of the organization.

  363. Rob April 16th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    SJ44 said:
    “The best thing about the new Yankee Stadium? They will price these punks out of ever having a presence in it.”

    Sj44,

    Usually I agree with EVERYTHING you have to say but I was really taken back by this statement. First off, I feel like the new Yankee Stadium is pricing me out and I do not consider myself “classless” or a “punk”. For the record, I was at opening day part 2 and did not boo Hawkins. Secondly, I know plenty of rich/well-off people who are as classless as they come. Seems to me you are making some awfully big assumptions here and we all know what happens when we assume something. I just wanted to get that out. I’m sure you were just caught up in the heat of the moment but I felt I needed to stand up for the have-nots. They are certainly not the only ones that can be classless.

    Rob

    P.S. Sorry if you already addressed this somewhere above but i could not read through all 350 comments.

  364. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

    Jennifer,

    I was just confused on who you were referring to, the people in favor hawkins or not. Or maybe it was just at the outrageous racial discussion.

  365. Jorge Steinbrenner, the long-lost third brother April 16th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    There’s lots of Yankee numbers which have not been retired, have sentimental value for people, and which I do have to smirk a bit when I see someone out there wearing. #19 is one. That will always be Dave Righetti to me.

    I bet half the people boing Hawkins can’t remember that far back.

    Anyways, so it’s someone new wearing #21. Life goes on. New Yorkers should know that. CBGB’s is now a John Varvatos store, for god’s sake.

    The one ppart of Pete’s argument I take issue with is the idea of Hawkins influencing potential free agents. I guess they could sign with Philly instead, where they’ll have batteries thrown at them, or with the Red Sox, who will boo them for the rest of their careers if they ever decide (or if the team decides) to play somewhere else later.

    Fans aside, this is greatest franchise in professional sports that a player could ever dream playing for.

  366. Jay April 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Get off your high horse, Pete. Okay, okay, we get it, you looooove Hawkins and he’s a god among teammates. Some fans didn’t like that he chose 21 and they booed him opening day. After that, they were booing his 12 ERA, so get over it! I had no problem with Hawkins wearing 21, but I do have a problem with him not knowing the history of the number — he should have found out himself, or someone should have stepped up sooner to tell him the fans wouldn’t like it. Hawkins was hung out to dry, in a sense, because he was making an uninformed decision.

    Paul O’Neill is a beloved figure in New York. He represents everything the ’90s teams were about. So while he’s not HoF worthy, the fans adore him. You need to accept that too and stop being such a drama queen when things don’t work out the way YOU think they should.

  367. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

    Jeff,

    Mariano and Derek didn’t tell Hawkins to change the number. They told him it wasn’t worth the grief he is getting to have the number.

    That’s a key distinction.

    I don’t want to pile on Andrew anymore. But, let me you folks some insight in how words can be hurtful.

    Derek Jeter and Gary Sheffield used to be very close friends. They would spend quite a bit of time together in the off-season when both were in Tampa.

    I used to see them at Miami Heat games and charity events we all attended, restaurants around town, etc. This off-season? Nothing.

    I would still see Jeter a lot. Even saw him with Arod a few times. No sign of Sheffield anywhere.

    I’ve come to find out that Jeter has had little to do with Sheffield since his comment about Jeter’s heritage. In fact, to say their friendship is strained is an understatement.

    Whether you post in your own blog, on this blog, or just write or speak in general, sometimes its better to take a deep breath and think before writing or speaking.

    You never realize how much the power of words can hurt people. Its ruined friendships among a lot of people.

    Even non-famous people.

    Just some food for thought for folks who feel that being “edgy” means being insulting.

  368. Jorge Steinbrenner, the long-lost third brother April 16th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    I skimmed through some of the thread, but I see someone brought up race. No, i don’t think we should ignore the fact that it’s an African American player getting booed. Not in the least.

  369. William Buckner April 16th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    Agreed rob – financial status has no impact on stupidity.

  370. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Jorge you said it perfectly.

  371. Fernando Alejandro (Respect Jeter's Gangster) April 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    I’m really okay with the Yankees not retiring his number. I do like O’Niell, I don’t want people to get it twisted. He was a really great player on a championship team, but a legend? Really? This isn’t Mickey Mantle, or Joe Dimaggio, or Lou Gehrig, or Babe Ruth, or Yogi Berra. A very good player, no doubt, but not so good that his number becomes sacred.

  372. Mr. Exceptional April 16th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    The only way to solve this is for MLB to have a Roberto Clemente day, then everyone on the Yankees could wear 21.

  373. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

    C’mon Murph, let’s be real…..I’m a tremendous idiot.

    Especially today. Its my birthday!

  374. ANSKY April 16th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    Russell NY:

    “You shouldn’t have to be a HOF type player to wear 21 after O’Neil but you should be required to at least punch one water cooler and kick one baseball in play in the outfield before you even think about.”

    That’s good – I like that. If only others could keep it light sometimes!

    Paul really should think about saying something publicly to alleviate the wrong that’s occurred. If there’s any way the organization can persuade him to say something, perhaps even that it’s be OK for a player to wear a number that’s not retired yet whether it’s going to be rretired or not) then it leaves the door open, and hopefully the problem will just evaporate over time.

    Besides, what if Hawkins had said he was wearing the number out of respect for O’Neill himself?

    Guys – Andrew made a mistake. I think it was a bad comment too. He may or may not be a racist (being one would be a bigger mistake in this day and age) but that’s not the point of the blog. I don’t like racists either, but let’s move on OK?

  375. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    What kind of stupidness is this?

    ____

    Moving to his left for a shallow fly ball to left field off the bat of Ken Griffey Jr., Soriano made what has become his trademark skip to make the catch and landed awkwardly. He immediately began to limp, favoring his right leg, and was helped off the field.

  376. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:53 pm

    “he should have found out himself, or someone should have stepped up sooner to tell him the fans wouldn’t like it. Hawkins was hung out to dry, in a sense, because he was making an uninformed decision.”

    All of this over the number a guy decided to wear on his back, sad.

  377. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

    happy bday SJ44

  378. Andrew April 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Jeter’s parents were great. Very gracious people and cool to talk to. I told them about when I met their son, and while he doesn’t look thrilled in the picture, he was really really nice.

    By the way, the picture was taken in 1997. I was 11 at the time. I’ll be 23 in August.

  379. Fernando Alejandro (Respect Jeter's Gangster) April 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    Happy Birthday SJ44. Any plans? Maybe a little Yankees – Red Sox action?

  380. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    SJ’s B-DAY today !! and in AA Tabata hits a 2 run double and Miranda Homers in AAA.

  381. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

    I posted this earlier, not sure if anyone read it.

    But Brackman is throwing part way off mound. Looks like he’ll be back before Pavano even gets in a game.

  382. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    no chance he throws an inning this year, it would show more guts than ICU-ANO times 20

  383. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Milestone birthday today so I’m doing something I haven’t done since I was 10 years old.

    Having a party.

    One rule. The place had to have 2 TV’s. One for the Yankees game and one for the Rangers game.

    That was worked out so, that’s the plan this evening.

  384. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

    Happy Birthday sj44!! I should have known that your smarts came from being born in the same month i did.

    Jennifer,
    That Soriano for Arod trade looks better by the minute. I wonder where would Cano be if we kept Alfonso?

  385. Joe April 16th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

    Happy B-day SJ, and very interesting and good story about Jeter and Sheff.

  386. Fredo Corleone April 16th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Thing with Brackman is that even when healthy, he’s never thrown more than 80 IP in a season in his life. To build up to the level of being a 200 IP starter at the MLB level will quite likely take 3-4 years.

  387. mel April 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Good morning guys. Read through the comments. This post really got the conversation going.

    I didn’t think it was race, so much as maybe Hawkins was seen as a carpetbagger or outsider?

    Someone asked the question would the fans boo Joba if he took the number? No. Is it because he’s white or because he’s the second coming or is it that he’s a true Yankee? (there’s that ridiculous term, but you cannot deny it’s not real)

    Well, what if Austin Jackson took it? Would they boo him? No. Is it because he’s of African-American descent or he’s the third coming or is it that he came up through the Yankee farm system?

    Is it race? Talent? Potential? Pedigree? I think the race card does not necessarily apply here.

  388. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Yeah Cano would be gone. Traded away from an aging pitcher.

    Brandon no chance who throws? Pavano? I also posted a quote from an article. Basically his agent think he can get #1-2 money cause he can throw 200 innings. HE has before. :lol:

  389. Matzel April 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    Hawkins gets booed because he is a downright lousy contact relief pitcher, who is going to get shelled this year. Switching numbers to 22 may even get him a few extra cheers he otherwise wouldn’t have gotten. But don’t think he’s going to stop getting booed, and don’t blame what is sure to be a lousy season for him on the fans.

  390. ANSKY April 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    I didn’t take what SJ said about the new stadium pricing punks out of the games the way it was taken by some.

    To think that he meant you should be classified as a punk because a trip to the stadium is getting too costly is like seeing the Monty Pythonist statement “All fish swim, therefore all that swim are fish” as perfectly logical.

    I’d find it hard (actually, impossible) to believe he meant it like that.

  391. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

    SJ44-I think you should go out and buy a Oneil 21 jersey. Wear it to the game and have it say i have a right to wear its my b-day.

  392. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Changing the subject…..

    Does anybody else feel like I do? I am really sick of the Yankee-Red Sox hype.

    Its April and these teams are already playing 5 times.

    I don’t know, maybe its just me. I would like to see these teams play more later in the year, let’s say from June on, so you can get a better feel for each team.

    These games have become so overanalyized and so over-hyped, frankly, they take the fun out of them.

    I’m just wondering if anyone else feels the same way.

  393. Blargh April 16th, 2008 at 1:05 pm

    Re: Fans booing Hawkins
    Horrible. Disgusting. Especially people booing him BEFORE HE EVEN PITCHED. And the humiliation. What are these people trying to do!? Don’t they realize that it won’t help his performance at all? Forget his career prior to joining the Yankees. Hawkins has signed with the Yankees and is now playing for the Yankees. In other words, he’s playing for ‘our’ team (or, SUPPOSEDLY ours). Such behavior (the booing and humiliation) to try to make him fail is essentially ACTIVELY BEING A DETRIMENT TO THE TEAM. Horrible fandom if you’re trying to be a BURDEN to the team that you ‘root’ for.
    From all accounts, Hawkins is a good man, and honouring Clemente is fantastic in my book. But if you are displeased with the whole number thing, you have that right as a fan. But express it in a way that doesn’t try to sabotage the team’s performance.

    Re: SoS
    They could be. Although ultimately, it’s up to them, IMO. They got a claim via blood, then it’s up to them to which/however they identify themselves most comfortably.

    Re: Race
    I’m a young non-white dude living in America. I’ll leave it at that.

  394. ANSKY April 16th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Mel –
    “Good morning”?
    I want your job.

  395. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    Fredo Corleone

    Would they bring him along as a reliever? Or is that too much strain on the arm?

    Also how much would it tick you off if Pavano goes and gets a three year deal and goes on to pitch 200 plus innings? Alhtough I don’t know how he could go from throwing 100 way back in 2005 to throwing 2000 in 2009.

  396. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

    “Milestone birthday today so I’m doing something I haven’t done since I was 10 years old.”

    What are you now 50?

  397. JR Yankees April 16th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Hopefully Hawkins won’t hold this against the rest of the fan base or his team mates for that matter. Everything I have heard about this guy has been good…even great. It’s too bad others’ obesession for O’Neill took it too far and booed a guy who had yet to throw a pitch for a team that is looking to him to help out the bullpen. I don’t think O’Neill minded but even if he did, c’mon the guy played 7 years ago…and he was great, don’t get me wrong.

    It’s astonishing, yet admirable, that Hawkins is changing the number on his jersey to appease select members of a fanbase consisting of millions of people. Fans booing at their own stadium for their own player should be ashamed and I question their support of the Yankees. I just hope people let it go now and forget about it.

  398. ItalianGreco April 16th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    SJ,

    Yeah, I’m sick of the hype, but I’m also sick of seeing the sux win.

    I really can’t stand Youkilis……

  399. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    “Brandon no chance who throws? Pavano? I also posted a quote from an article. Basically his agent think he can get #1-2 money cause he can throw 200 innings. HE has before.”

    I’m suprised his agent isn’t in witness protection :lol:

  400. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    mel I don’t think it has anything to do with race, not in the least! It has to do with the fact that people think that is Paulie’s number, and that Latroy has never really been a great relief pitcher.

    SJ- I agree, I’m not even that hyped for these games. I absolutly hate when we play in Fenway and it is made worse when they are national tv games.

  401. Blargh April 16th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    Happy Birthday to SJ44

  402. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    ItalianGreco
    Yeah Kevin is quickly working his way up the ladder of the sox player I can’t stand the most. V-tek was there, but Kevin has just about taken over the top spot.

  403. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 1:10 pm

    ANSKY,

    Exactly. My point was not to say anybody priced out of the new stadium is a punk.

    My point was/is, the new price points will definitely affect many of the folks who now come to the stadium to boo/harass the players.

    There are plenty of idiots in the field boxes. I know, several of them sit near me.

    But, the language, drunkeness and overall bad behavior that has been exhibited at the stadium in recent years aren’t coming from the field boxes.

    Those folks are like Laker fans. Show up in the third inning and leave in the 8th inning. They aren’t carrying on like lunatics over trivial things.

    Its worse at Fenway. There, the folks in the field boxes ARE the lunatics.

    I just would like to think/hope Yankee fans hold themselves to a higher standard than Red Sox fans.

  404. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    SJ–

    This 2 games series has no juice whatsoever. Not sure if it is because we just played them last week, if it is because it is only a short series.because it is so early or because it is in the middle of the week. Probably a combination of all the above.

    To me it is just another game.

  405. mel April 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    ANSKY,

    What’s a ‘job’? j/k.

    I think you’d REALLY like my time zone, though.

  406. Fredo Corleone April 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    SJ44:

    Good points on the early Sox/Yanks games. Much rather see them in June-Sept than April. Should never happen before Memorial Day.

    Would also be nice if they culd bring some of these games in under 3.5 hours. Game Sunday night ended about the time I was making my breakfast.

  407. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

    SJ44

    About the more games later in the year: Yeah 5 in April seems like a lot, but they’ve already played 6 against TB. that’s how it goes in-division. There will be a lot of Yankees-Red Sox in the 2nd half this season, as they do not meet again until July 3rd after tomorrow night. But yeah, I am kind of getting tired of the huge deal that is made out of it. It’s like, yeah, they play eachother more than a dozen times EVERY year. They always have. It’s not some exclusive event. I could understand the hype more when they meet in the post season, but in the regular season the TV stations just go way overboard with it. I also can’t stand the “rivalry renewed!!” crap all the time. it just sounds lame.

  408. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    They need to cut the division games down. What are they now 19 games per year. Its too watered down. 12 or so would be better.

  409. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    SOS,

    My age? As one friend of mine said to me, “You are old enough to still kick people’s butts and old enough to get your butt kicked”.

    That should answer your question. lol

  410. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    “sj-Those folks are like Laker fans.”

    I guess you wont be getting a happy b day from mel today.
    Let me save you on this one. More like Raider fans.

  411. StandingO'Neil April 16th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    It does get old SJ44, not so much the hype but the overreaction to losing to the redsox in april. People tend to overreact more if we lose a game to them, even though its no different if we lost to Baltimore. In April a team is just trying to find itself, as long as we play .500 ball and stay in the thick of things I’m happy.

  412. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    Sos

    If they cut down on the divisional games then the teams would have to do way more coast to coast traveling. it’s just harder.

  413. rob April 16th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Erik Bedard is hurt?

  414. Fredo Corleone April 16th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Jenn:

    Don’t know on Brackman. I suppose they way they handled Horne could be the model. Not sure.

    Pavano has no pride, so if he goes off elsewhere and authors a 200 IP season, I’d be aggravated but not surprised.

  415. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    SJ44 –

    not to plug myself, but i wrote a little something about the “punk” people showing up lately

    http://thebaseballoutsider.blo.....bronx.html

    i watched 12 people get kicked out in the span of 4 innings all of them tanked up and acting like lunatics. this was up in the teir where the real people sit, some of us can only afford the cheap seats unfortunately. those of us who do get stuck next to the noodnick out of towners and last minute buyers who just want to start crap.

  416. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    SJ44 -

    First, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

    Second, I agree with you regarding the Yankees/Red Sox hype having gotten out of hand.

    During last night’s game post I noticed how many people were scoreboard watching in April! It’s an awfully long season, and to get caught up to that extent so early is a guarantee to burn-out, for me anyway. You’ve got to pace yourselves! :)

    But the media overdoes it, as well. And I don’t look forward to the games with Boston, either, because it’s never just about the game anymore.

  417. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Yes bedard went on the 15 day DL last night

  418. ANSKY April 16th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    Talk about hair-trigger booing of players whether they go 0-for-4 or they’re wearing a retired player’s number … this bugs me.

    During the series in Boston I saw an ESPN camera had zoomed in on some Sox fan in the stands who was holding up a sign saying somethign like “I believe in David Ortiz”. At the time wasn’t Ortiz in such a big slump that his batting average was in danger of becoming a negative number?

    How many people here wanted to DFA, trade or ceremoniously impail some NY players (or coaches/managers) for the single smallest imperfection in the first two weeks of the season? Or spring training for that matter?

    If it sounds like I’m talking about you, how can you call yourself a fan? At least Mike & the Mad Dog have a legitimate excuse: They’re idiots.

  419. JEM April 16th, 2008 at 1:18 pm

    I have had much respect for Paul O’Neill as a player and a growing appreciation for his analytic abilities on the YES Network. However, I am disappointed on him that as a man he did not address this issue head on, when he could have on many occasions. Number 21 will now be tainted

  420. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    SoS (cntd.)

    Unless you figure they reduced the entire number of games they play in a season all together. because what i was thinking if they reduced the number of divisional games from 19 or so to around 12 for each team, they would have to play other divisional teams around 12 times each also instead of the normal 6 to make up the rest of the games to get to 162.

  421. melhall3 April 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Shameful? That’s a little much. Some fans aren’t ready to have someone else wearing their beloved #21. Booing isn’t shameful. If they were throwing objects onto the field or sending in death threats, that would be shameful. This is just a handful of fans voicing their opinion as is their right. Everyone should calm down just a bit.

  422. Bossy April 16th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    LaTroy was booed b/c he gave up 7 earned runs in his first two appearances.

  423. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Lets get passed this Hawkins/racial conversations.
    New topic for all!!

    Which championship out of the recent 4 was your favorite?Why?
    A.96
    B.98
    C.99
    D.00

    For me it was close between the 96(being the first in quit sometime and 98. I have to go with 98 because we not only won the title. But had the best ever record in doing so.

  424. Rodney F. April 16th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

    Hawkins shouldn’t have been booed on opening day, bottom line. But I think its important to remember that no matter how much of a “nice guy” he may be, he has given up a lot of runs this season and from my admittedly limited chances to watch him pitch (I’ve only seen him pitch 3 or 4 times), hasn’t looked great. Do you really think Yankee fans would have booed Bobby Cano had he chosen to honor Clemente? I don’t think so. If fans are so steadfastly against the club reassigning numbers of clutch hitters from the 90′s shouldn’t fans have booed Cano’s face off? (as he now wears #24) I think that the problem with Hawkins does stem from the discontent fans feel at seeing 21 go to another player, but if Hawkins had come out and performed in his first two appearances (in which he gave up eight hits and seven runs in two innings) I believe fans would have been willing to forgive his indiscretion. Instead fans were treated to mediocre pitching at best and responded as we typically do, boo him him into submission. I’m not saying that Hawkins shouldn’t pitch, in fact I do like the improvement he has shown recently, however his inability to “rise to the occasion” early has left a bad taste in some in the mouths of some fans and it will take something big for them to recognize his ability. It isn’t mean spirited, its just Yankee baseball, play like a champion or get the hell out. And no, I don’t agree that the actions of fans could have an impact on O’Neill’s legacy in pinstripes, it’s not like he was part of steroid generation of that era, so back off.

  425. Lauren April 16th, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    I’m a HUGE O’Neill fan and seeing my favorite Yankee hero’s number on ‘the wall’ one day would be incredible. That said, he played during an era where FOUR home grown phenoms were his teammates. As much as it kills me, I understand and accpet that 2, 6, 42 are locks for retirement and 51 and 20 are certainly up for consideration. That would seemingly leave ‘The Warrior’ out in the cold. A lifer with great numbers would certainly trump a ten-year player with above average numbers (4 rings though!)

    Had I been at a game and Hawkins made an appearance, I would boo too. To see a player that had NO previous ties to the organization acquire a number that has been out of circulation for 6 years and was last worn by one of the most beloved players of the late 90′s dynasty get berated is not strange or unusual in NY. I feel bad if Hawkins felt disliked, but they were not directly booing at him.

    I really don’t care if the low numbers are all gone, take it out of circulation for at least 20 years if you’re not going to retire it. He’s broadcasting on YES for god’s sake, he’s still very much in the mix of the organization.

    p.s. Shame on anyone criticizing Paul O’Neill’s reaction or non-reaction, leave him out of it.

  426. nettles April 16th, 2008 at 1:24 pm

    I agree the Sox/Yanks thing is getting a bit over the top.

    And, what’s with a two-game series? Looks like the only time this season that happens. Odd…

  427. mel April 16th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    SJ44,

    Not only will you get a “Happy Birthday” from me, but also an “おたんじょうび おめでとう ございます!”

    I don’t know how someone with your knowledge and experience can only be 40 years old. :)

  428. ANSKY April 16th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    SoS

    The win total and utter dominance aside, ’98 was like the best year ever in terms of attitude and everything falling into place. Winning the WS was like a bonus.

  429. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    Yet another response to SoS

    I liked 2000 a lot, because my whole family comes from New York and while my immediate family is all Yankees fans, most, if not all of my relatives are Mets fans. So that made it fun. Also my dad who i believe is a closet Mets fan since he grew up in Queens, decided to root for the Mets that WS because he figured the Yankees had their share. So intrafamily rivalries made it interesting, plus the whole idea of beating the Mets was cool. Also, that was the first season I was really getting to know a lot about baseball and watched most of the regular season. I started getting into baseball in 1996 when i was 9, and by the time the Subway Series rolled around I had enough knowledge of the sport and familiarity with the players to really appreciate it.

    By the way I had a successful vending machine transaction this afternoon.

  430. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Brian from Pa,
    I see where your going with this. Maybe have the east play central teams. Which in turn wouldnt be that much traveling involved. West plays Central. Or which im not a big fan of, play more interleague games with the east. 19 is too much. Does anyone know how many games they used to play before they upped it to the 19?

  431. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    To change the subject couple of segments from last nights HBO Real Sports that people should check out. I am sure it will re-air lots of times and then be on HBO In Demand.

    First they did a great piece on Mike Coolbaugh. So interesting his story and they interviewed the person who hit the ball and he also a classy guy. very moving.

    They also did a story on Torri Hunter (in conjunction with Jackie Robinson Day). I learned a lot more about him that I did not know regarding his upbringing, his father etc.

    If you get a chance check them both. The other two stories were also very good just not baseball related.

  432. Joe April 16th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    SoS,
    All of the championships have their special place. 1996 was the first one in a long time, the Yankees were underdogs against the mighty Braves and they came back in the series, when everyone counted them out.
    1998, Best team ever, enough said.
    1999 was great because it followed 1998. Look at many sports, when teams have all time years and win championships, they never follow it up. That Yankees team did, and in a way made the 1998 team that much better.
    2000 was against the Mets, enough said.
    With all of that I say 1996 is the best for the reasons I provided earlier, and it set the foundation for the other titles.

  433. gianthinker April 16th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Boo Hoo, if not being able to be a bad player wearing #21 stops people from coming to the Yankees then we dont need them in the first place. We dont boo because he’s wearing #21 but because he’s a poor player wearing #21. If he was pitching well and being productive no one would care but he’s not so he’s gonna get booed. The last time that number was worn the guy was playing with heart and giving his all everyday as a staple of our championship teams. The next time that number is issued it had better be a All Star or major producer. A substandard player wearing #21 will and should get booed. If he doesn’t like it he can hit the bricks.

  434. McLovin April 16th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Paul O’Neil doesn’t deserve to have his name in the same sentence as Roberto Clemente.Paul O’Neil should have said something to quiet fans.THey should retire Clementes number so Paul O’Neil will have to share it if the Yankees were to retire it for O’Neil.

  435. McLovin April 16th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    Paul O’Neil doesn’t deserve to have his name in the same sentence as Roberto Clemente.Paul O’Neil should have said something to quiet fans.THey should retire Clementes number so Paul O’Neil will have to share it if the Yankees were to retire it for O’Neil.

  436. Blargh April 16th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    ’00 would be my favourite
    Prior to that, I didn’t really care much for baseball. By ’00, I was starting to care a little bit, biased towards the Yankees (my best friend is a Yankee lifer, I live in Jersey, and there’s no doubt that I’m a homer)

  437. Andy Hawkins April 16th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

    OK, what player deserves to have his number retired:

    Player A
    1,254 career games with the Yankees
    .303 average
    185 homers
    858 RBIs
    4-time all-star
    Valuable member of four World Series championship teams

    Player B
    1,284 career games with the Yankees
    .288 average
    183 homers
    795 RBIs
    5-time all-star
    Valuable member of seven World Series championship teams

    Player A is Paul O’Neill. Player B is Old Reliable Tommy Henrich.

    They’re very similar, and O’Neill’s slight statistical edges are erased by the fact that he played in a terrific offensive era.

    I know it’s not about stats, guys. But the point is, a lot of the ’96ers who weren’t Yankees fans during the ’80s because it wasn’t convenient to be don’t realize that the Yankees have had plenty of players over the years who were just like Paul O’Neill — good, scrappy, invaluable players who just don’t happen to be all-timers. The Yankees have seven or eight numbers just like that that have been reitred. I think we’ve established that you can easily unretire 1, 23, 44 and 49 without disgracing the history of the team. I’m sorry, but 21 would be lumped right in with those.

    I grew up a Mattingly fan and was thrilled when the team decided to retire his number. Looking back, I think it was a little selfish of me. I’d be honored if Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy decided to wear 23. Of course, the Yankees should reserve it for a special player, but even if they didn’t, I certainly wouldn’t make the life of the player miserable over it.

  438. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    Even though the Yankees didn’t win, i have to give props to the 2001 World Series. in my opinion, aside from losing, that was one of the best WS of all time and there hasn’t been a WS nearly as good as that one since.

  439. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:31 pm

    “I started getting into baseball in 1996″

    NO!NO!!NO!!! From now on Brian say you were a fan from 95. It the prior to bandwagon year.

  440. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    WANG!!!!!!!!

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ml?eref=T1

  441. Jimw April 16th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    ItalianGreco I can’t stand Youkilis either. My insiders from sox nation said that the big hair ball on his chin is a nice fluffy pillow for papi’s sack at night. That’s just what I heard.

  442. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    Ok, i’ll say 1995. but i had no friggin idea why i got into in 1996, i didn’t know at the time who anybody was or that they had gone to the playoffs in 95, i just started watching it sometimes because i saw my dad watching a game and i just kind of started to like it.

  443. Mark April 16th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

    I have an idea: How about a big “C” on the uniforms of those players left on the team who lost 2004 to the Red Sox?

  444. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:34 pm

    “By the way I had a successful vending machine transaction this afternoon.”

    Last thursday i watched 30 rock for the first time. There was a guy that had the same problem with the vending machine and dicided to stick his arm in it. Off coarse it got stuck. I was busting up thinking about what you said last week. It was like a day after you told your story.

  445. saucY April 16th, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    happy birthday sj44 (sj45?)

  446. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    i didn’t stick my arm in the machine for the reason that on every sitcom some moron gets their arm stuck in a vending machine. plus it wouldn’t have mattered because there’s an anti theft device in it that blocks access to the inside of the machine when you push the door open to retrieve your snack.

  447. mel April 16th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

    Anyone besides Andrew going to the game? I’d love to see a sign in the shape of a laptop and a shout out to the Lohud blog.

  448. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Jay,

    Good stuff. I have never understood the desire to go to a game and get drunk out of your mind.

    With the prices charged for tickets these days, let alone the beer prices, I would want to keep my wits about me and enjoy the game.

    Mel,

    By “Laker fans”, I was talking about the folks who sit around me. Like Laker fans (sorry my friend but its true. They show up late and leave early almost every game) they show up in the third inning most games I am there.

    They are on their cellphones or texting non-stop, through the 6th inning. They ask what the score is (as if they can’t see that big thing called a “scoreboard” in the OF) in the 8th and leave to, as one of them once told me during a game, “to avoid the traffic back to Manhattan”.

    Ticks me off because I know those seats could be used by folks who really want good seats for a game.

    SOS,

    The “Raider Fan Mentality” is reserved for Yankee fans who, while professing to be fans, hate everything about the team.

    Cashman, Girardi, Torre (from last year), Arod, the list goes on and on.

  449. G. Love April 16th, 2008 at 1:39 pm

    Happy birthday SJ!

    I wrote a response to this post earlier but either the blog ate it or Pete is putting the smack down on my first amendment rights.

  450. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 1:41 pm

    if I don’t hear LAPTOP ! LAAAAAAAAAAAPTOP ! mock chants then the Yankee bleacher creatures are off thier game.

  451. LadyBug626 April 16th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

    According to Andrew “oreos” don’t count with regards to being considered African-American baseball players.
    ————–

    “The African-American population took a hit because now if you’re biracial, it doesn’t count”.
    – Derek Jeter, Aug 3, 2007, NY Post

  452. michael April 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

    this is sad. the mob mentality showed by yankee fans is pathetic. people who wouldnt act a certain way if they werent anonymous. i think o’neill shouldve said something on yes about it. hawkins now deserves a warm acceptance.

  453. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    damn in AAA Gardner made it to 3B on an infield single/error

    Tabata doubles home Action, (IT’S ALIVE :twisted: )

  454. Rishi April 16th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Jimmy – thanks for the link! interesting article.

  455. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    sj,
    Comparing Raider fan to Yankee fans a bit extreme. They will beat you up at a game for wearing the opposing teams jersey. Not occationally either.

    I would say that some Yankee fans have switched rolls with red sox fans. The sky is falling/what else can go wrong mentality

  456. Donna April 16th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    It’s amazing how the children around here continue to find any reason at all to knock Derek Jeter, even for something that has nothing to do with him.

    Grow up kiddies, and go do your algebra homework.

  457. mel April 16th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    Oh, SJ, I wasn’t offended and that wasn’t swearing. It was ‘Happy Birthday’ in Japanese.

    Yes, Laker fans show up late, but they’ve been staying until the end because we haven’t been on the wrong side of too many blowouts this season. I’ve noticed, too that when the Heat used to have fans, they arrived late also. Must be the lifestyle of the rich and famous: show up fashionably late.

    But, yes, I can see how it would irritate you, especially when you’re scouting for us!

  458. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Gayle,

    Vin Scully, doing the Dodgers game, had some amazing stories about Jackie Robinson.

    The following story was one he discussed last night.

    The Dodgers received a death threat toward Robinson. The threat stated that he would be shot during an AB when he got to Pittsburgh’s Forbes Field.

    The Dodgers received threats like this all the time re: Robinson. They would always turn them over to the FBI.

    This time, for whatever reason never communicated to the Dodgers, the FBI deemed this threat as real.

    So, they stationed shooters on the roof at Forbes Field.

    As the players walked in, they saw the sharpshooters. They stayed there the entire series, and Jackie played every inning of every game.

    An amazing story.

  459. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

    Nice article thanks for the link.

    Why is it that they are playing this minor league games in the middle of the day is it travel related. You would think that minor league games especially want the kids to be there and they are in school

  460. Don April 16th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

    Many posts above, someone asked me if they used to boo Moose Skowron. No they didn’t, though they used to give the “Moose” call which sounded like boos. But strange as it seems, Mantle got his fair share of booing in the 50s (for striking out, etc). I think there is too much booing by unappreciative and thoughtless fans.

  461. saucY April 16th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    “if I don’t hear LAPTOP ! LAAAAAAAAAAAPTOP ! mock chants then the Yankee bleacher creatures are off thier game.”

    indeed. it was sad we didn’t hear any boos for elliot johnson.

  462. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Heat fans are worse Mel. At least Laker fans show up.

    Heat fans only show up if they get free tickets or free food.

    The curse of living in an area whose motto is, “if its free, its me”.

  463. Blargh April 16th, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Nice article; didn’t know about the rigorous practice/pitching philosophy that would cause a lot of burn out

  464. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    “Ok, i’ll say 1995. but i had no friggin idea why i got into in 1996, i didn’t know at the time who anybody was or that they had gone to the playoffs in 95, i just started watching it sometimes because i saw my dad watching a game and i just kind of started to like it.”

    I stopped watching baseball after the 94 strike. I was an avid fan as a little kid in the 80s, and can remember sitting at the kitchen table with the paper near the end of the season figuring out whether the Yanks were mathematically eliminated or not, even when it got the point that it was realistically hopeless. 86, maybe?

    Anyway, I got to high school and started paying attention to girls more than baseball, and then went to college and still didn’t care. In 04, a couple years into grad school, I got back into it. So, none of the championships mean anything to me. I didn’t watch any of them on TV, really.

  465. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

    SJ44 – My age? As one friend of mine said to me, “You are old enough to still kick people’s butts and old enough to get your butt kicked”.

    You could be an 85 year old UFC fighter.

  466. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    SJ–

    I wish I had been able to hear that (was too busy catching up on my TIVO lol).

    I am sure that Vin has other stories just as amazing. I wish that young kids and even adults could appreciate and understand just what Robinson meant not to just baseball but to the overall way that this country is. I am only 42 so I cant say that I can relate to what these people went through. To even think that Jackie and other players could not stay at the same hotel as the rest of the team, eat in the same place as the rest of the team and had to go through all of this pretty much by himself and not give in to human nature by being bitter and losing his temper is an amazing lesson to learn about the human experience. If people would only read about the past, learn about the past, watch about the past I think we would all be a bit better.

  467. saucY April 16th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    oh, sos 98, no doubt.

  468. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 1:56 pm

    SJ44 – I feel the same way. Teams are all banged up in the beginning and playing just to stay in the race. Teams then get hot in the summer when they get an idea of where they stand for the playoffs and then is when it’s fun to watch.

  469. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    “if I don’t hear LAPTOP ! LAAAAAAAAAAAPTOP ! mock chants then the Yankee bleacher creatures are off thier game.”

    It isn’t Bucholz’ fault that the Red Sox chose him in the draft. If it was up to the players, Red Sox management would be on the field.

  470. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    Excerpt from SI article on Wang:
    Many U.S. reporters who cover Wang assume he’s reserved because of the halting manner in which he speaks English, but he talks that way in his own language in his own country. When asked about Wang, former college teammate Kao Lin-Jie says, “His face never had an expression. He didn’t say anything. He was just . . . strange.”

    Wang’s former college coach, Kao Ying-Chieh, recalls, “He always sat alone during lunch. Once our team took a trip to the Alisan mountains [outside of Taipei]. The team went down to a creek, and everyone jumped in and played around. But Chien-Ming wasn’t there. I looked up and saw him on the bridge, looking down at the creek, alone. That just tells you what kind of person he is.”

    Gotta love him
    It takes all types for every Damon or O’Neill there is a Bernie or a Wang.

    Wang could be our most exciting player this year…

  471. LadyBug626 April 16th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    NO!NO!!NO!!! From now on Brian say you were a fan from 95. It the prior to bandwagon year.
    ——
    I’ll readily admit I jumped on the bandwagon in ’96 (although I started watching baseball in ’87) but I never jumped off – unlike so many other fans.

    I’ll never forget last year watching an afternoon game in a bar during lunch and the Yanks had just come off a long August winning streak. An inning ended and they were behind a couple of runs. Some guy screams “I hate the Yankees. They always lose!!” Obviously he wasn’t following the team. And to him the Yanks are only good when the win and “bad” when they lose. THAT is bandwagon.

    Another example was the game I went to on Apr 2 of this year – the 2nd game of the season. Derek Jeter hit a grounder that the 1st baseman missed on a throw from the infield. The ball traveled behind 1st base into the outfield and Jeter tried to take 2nd. The 1st baseman recovered the ball, threw to 2nd and Jeter got tagged out. Some guy a couple of rows over screams “STUPID!!”. What was “stupid” about it? That’s a normal baseball play and Jeter did the right thing. Oh wait, I forgot, he probably only watches when the Yanks are “good” and not “stupid”. THAT is bandwagon!

  472. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:03 pm

    whozat,
    I never met a fan that stopped watching after the strike before. It is really a sad story. The strike and you not watching those championships. Where you following the team by reading the papers? Have you since then rented and watched those titles? I have to say its pretty impressive to hear that you werent watching games for all those years but have the knowledge about the team that you do.

  473. mel April 16th, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    SJ,

    LOL. I thought the “White” outs at the arena for the playoffs was kind of cute. Come to think of it, everyone was wearing the same shirt, so they must’ve been free.

    Do you live in the area? Do the people there despise Shaq and his slash and burn antics? We’re just getting over it now, only with some monumental diplomacy from Bill Russell two years ago.

  474. mel April 16th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Over/under on the Phil is overrated questions in the Callis chat?

  475. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:08 pm

    “White out”

  476. sunny615 April 16th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    Clay Buccholtz was a Yankee fan growing up (he idolized Jeter- he played SS in High School).
    Phil Hughes was a Red Sox fan growing up.

    irony at it’s best.

  477. gdamac April 16th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    Can the guy get a chance to play? It’s April, how can you boo a Yankee in April? I guess if fans will boo a guy who hit 61 HRs for them, they’ll boo anybody.

  478. LadyBug626 April 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    Heat fans only show up if they get free tickets or free food.
    —-
    Seriously! Anytime I watched a Heat game on ABC/ESPN/TNT the seats were empty – and this is when the team was really good.

    Whozat, we have a similar baseball story. I got turned on to baseball by the Mets (yes I admit that) in the late 80s. But I stopped watching when most of my fav Mets left the team in the early 90s and then the baseball strike hit in ’94. Honestly the Yanks ’95 playoff run turned me back on to baseball and then came ’96. Unfortunately for all the 4 championships I was in college in Chicago so I still haven’t seen a parade.

  479. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    “I never met a fan that stopped watching after the strike before. It is really a sad story. The strike and you not watching those championships. Where you following the team by reading the papers? Have you since then rented and watched those titles?”

    The strike was kind of just sort of the last straw. I had already begun to have my interest flag…I loved the team when I was a kid, but just got into a bunch of other things when I hit puberty. With the kind of schedule I had in high school, I couldn’t watch a lot of games anyway. I didn’t follow in the papers much either, if at all. I was just…doing other things. And then I went to college up in new england, and was up here for the 98, 99 and 2000 championships. I kinda had other things to do, and it’s not like the area shut down for the World Series back then…this is Sox country :-)

    Never got the games on DVD either.

  480. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pm

    ooops, sorry… meant to search on “white out” to see the conversations about that… I was at the Penn State / Notre Dame football game last year (I’m an ND fan, friend of mine went to PSU). They did a white out there and I have to say it was incredible. You could literally count the people not wearing white and there were over 110,000 people there.

  481. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    “I got turned on to baseball by the Mets (yes I admit that) in the late 80s.”

    My secret shame? Guess which team brought me back to baseball…

  482. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.

    Can someone think of more?

  483. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    Sos27
    If you can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.

  484. JJNJ April 16th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

    Seriously, lay off O’Neill. What was he supposed to do – come out and say “Yeah, I don’t want anyone else wearing 21 again.” Then he would’ve been ripped apart for being “selfish” or “egotistical”. Would it have been better for him to lie just so he could appease some of you? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    So many people are riding their high horses around here. I guess you’re all perfect.

  485. mel April 16th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Chris NY,

    Whites Out? j/k. Thanks for catching that.

    sunny615,

    Clay’s good, really good. I just hope the Yankees can get to them and pray that Wang can bewitch the Sox lineup. Wang feels at home in Yankee Stadium. He’s got single digit losses there.

    Anyway, anyhow I want a win tonight. And if takes 56,000 people serenading, “Laptops, Laptops”. Then so be it. Baseball’s a cruel sport. They’ve done it to Giambi, Alex, and will do it to Andy.

  486. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    anyone looking foward to Joey Calzaghe ending the great career of Bernard Hopkins this Saturday……Hopkins shouldnt have taken this fight, its going to be ugly.

  487. rover April 16th, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    you know, it is a shame to boo any player on the team. These guys are human, sometimes they do good and others not so good. I understand the need to demonstrate dissatisfaction, underperformance, lack of hustle or seemingly uncaring play. I don’t understand booing due to personal feelings associated with a number. Its a dmn number. I’ve learned over the years there are a number of fans of any number of teams, who demonstrate a pure lack of any semblance of class. To those with a clue, I salute you. To those with no clue, well, go away.

  488. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    “Clay Buccholtz was a Yankee fan growing up (he idolized Jeter- he played SS in High School).
    Phil Hughes was a Red Sox fan growing up.”

    I think a trade might be coming. Yes Pavano(sox fan) for Buccholtz.

  489. sunny615 April 16th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    mel,

    I too, have no doubt Wang can hold up against Buccholz.

  490. sunny615 April 16th, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    How about Pavano, Farnsworth and Betemit for Buccholz. That’s fair.

  491. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper:

    #6 – You were a Yankee fan, now you’re a Red Sox fan.

  492. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Here is a question for everyone. Thought of it after reading Sweeny Murti’s blog entry today.

    What is harder being the first manager after Joe Torre or being the first closer after Mariano retires.

  493. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.

    Can someone think of more?

  494. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Mel,

    I do live in the area. The playoff themes were very creative.

    Then again, they were passing free t-shirts! lol

    On Shaq, I think the prevailing attitude here is he makes himself look very, very small with the comments he made after the trade.

    Most people are asking, “why have a scorched earth attitude? You got another ring, Wade never complained about the fact you would mail in large segments of the season, and you were universally loved in the area”.

    Adding to it is the fact, by watching his games lately, its cleared he dogged it with the Heat to force a trade.

    I think Shaq is going to have an interesting legacy. Yes, he has won 4 rings. But, it can also be argued, he is a guy without a true “home” in the NBA.

    Orlando? Left there and trashed everybody.
    LA? Same thing.
    Miami? See above.
    Phoenix? To Be Determined.

    His years of not being in shape doesn’t really add a lot to his legacy.

    Its interesting when you compare him to Arod for example.

    Two guys universally considered to be at the top of their respective sports.

    Say what you will about Arod but, the guy is always in shape, always plays hard, and plays just about everyday.

    Also, realizing that jumping from team to team hurts your legacy (I know this because he has said this to me and quite a few people) he commited to the Yankees for his entire career.

    When Arod is done, he will be considered an all-time great. Maybe the greatest player ever and will be remembered as a Yankee.

    That’s royalty in baseball.

    Shaq? Will probably be remembered more as a “entertainer” than a player and has no real identity to any one team.

    His legacy is also going to be hurt by wasting so many years being out of shape.

    He won 4 rings but, he could have won 7 or 8 if he had a greater commitment to the game.

  495. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    heres a question for everyone…do you think black farnsworth will get a huge ovation if he comes into the game tonight now that he’s changed his number?

  496. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.

    Can someone think of more?

  497. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

    I would go with replacing Mo. Most think that anyone could have taken those teams to the championship. But not without Mo.

  498. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    8. You boo players on Opening Day.
    9. You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    10. You hate everything about the team.
    11. You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.

  499. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    SJ: Happy birthday! It’s my dad’s birthday today, too!

  500. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    12. youre a femal

  501. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    WOW Lance Broadway(WhiteSox RHP stud) was dominant today vs Scranton

    and he still got the 4 – 2 loss but had SWB players off rythmn, Gardner made a triple out of a would be single grounder to Broadway in the 1st and he threw it away as Brett went through first motored into third base, Castro would ground out, Gardner scores and it was 1 – 1 until the 6th when Miranda went deep to RF to make it 2 – 1…..

    8th inning Brett Gardner hits a sacrifice bunt. Throwing error by pitcher Lance Broadway. Gregory Porter scores. Brett Gardner to 3rd. (YES AGAIN, HE WAS PESKY), Miranda singles Gardner scores 4 – 2.

    It was over because 8th inning Scott Patterson came in
    1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 K’s
    GO/FO 0:1… CB you’ll love this 15-9 :P

    Broadway was dominant his GO/FO was 14:6, he went 8 IP, his mistake was Brett Gardner. :lol:

  502. Blargh April 16th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    First closer after Mo

    Once our security blanket leaves the game, the boos will rain hard on the successor, nevermind that he’ll be trying his hardest for the team. Probably just cause ‘he’s not Mo’.

  503. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    12. You try to start the wave

  504. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 2:34 pm

    3 years from now, nobody will even be talking about the manager.

    Nothing against Torre but, managers don’t play the game.

    The guy that replaces Mariano? Oh man, I wouldn’t want to be that guy!

    Mariano is a guy that most fans really won’t appreciate until he’s retired.

    Trevor Hoffman has saved more games than anybody in baseball history. He’s going to go to the HOF and is loved in SD.

    Guess what? Most people remember the games he’s blown more than any of his saves.

    Mariano? The complete opposite. Nobody will ever have the post-season numbers from his position he has compiled.

    An amazing career and an even more amazing person.

    Those shoes aren’t going to be tough to fill. They are going to be impossible.

  505. mel April 16th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Interesting take on Shaq. What you heard him say about the Suns, we heard him say about the Heat. Real team, best coach, etc.

    Yes, he was dogging it. We all need to see the medicine men on the Suns’ staff. Miracle workers! The worse part is where he said that the Heat pushed him out. He orchestrated his own departure. Oh! Deja vu!

    Shaq is one of the biggest, best things to happen to basketball. He was blessed with size, but not necessarily the skills to match. He made the conscientious (sp?) decision to be more of an entertainer rather than an athlete. Had he developed those skills he’d be the G.O.A.T. that he considers himself to be.

    So you must be sick about the state of the Marlins, huh? Can they ever fill the seats?

  506. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    To stop the rumors right now, no, I’m not Rebecca’s father! lol

    Happy Birthday to your dad Rebecca.

  507. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.

    Keep em coming!

  508. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    correction to my number 12. Youre a good looking female.

  509. herthrow April 16th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    I agree with the premise here, which is that Hawkins should have been able to wear #21 to honor Clemente without this kind of dumb fan reaction to it. However, I disagree with a couple of things:

    “Paul O’Neill was a good player but not one worthy of having his number retired. At some point, the Yankees have to have some standards.”

    The fans loved O’Neill and he was a very good player who helped turn them around from losers into winners in the early 90′s. It is debatable whether or not he should have his number retired. This is not some black and white issue. Just because the guy isn’t a hall of famer doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have his number retired. He is very signficiant to the Yankee fans. The Yankees do have standards, and your comment about that is insulting.

    “What do you suppose he would tell a potential free agent who asks his opinion of playing for the Yankees?”

    Do you really think that any big-time free agent like Teixeira or Sabathia is going to turn down 100+ million dollar contracts from the Yankees because an old reliever didn’t like fan reaction to a uniform number? That’s absurd. And why don’t you wait for the season to play out before you even make that assumption that Hawkins is going to be miserable here. If the Yankees win 90+ games and make a big push in the postseason, then it seems to me that Hawkins would definitely enjoy playing for that kind of competitive team.

    “Nice legacy for No. 21 now. It’s not retired but it can’t be used because some fans are jerks. If it does get retired now, it won’t be for the right reasons.”

    What are you even talking about here? It won’t be retired for the right reasons? If it does get retired, it will because of Paul O’Neill’s success as a Yankee (which is the right reason), not because of this Hawkins issue. You are just way off here.

    “Be careful what you wish for.”
    What? I don’t get it. What are the fans wishing for? Is this some kind of threat? This is also absurd.

    Look, this issue is really simple. The fans who booed Hawkins were really dumb and are clearly in the wrong. Hawkins should have been allowed to wear number 21. It’s that simple. There’s no need to bring arguments about whether or not O’Neill’s number is worthy of retirement, or how the Yankees have questionable standards, or speculating that Hawkins is going to convince other free agents to not sign with the Yankees, or making bizarre pseudo-threats about how fans should be careful what they wish for. That is just odd that would make this sound so complicated and convoluted.

  510. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    Actually, I’m not sick about the Marlins. I am sick OF the Marlins.

    For the City of Miami to commit 600 million bucks, and tear down the Orange Bowl for a team that, despite making over 30 million dollars in profits last year, still won’t raise its payroll, is yet another example of government spending gone amok.

    Their owner says he won’t raise the payroll until the new stadium is finished. That’s 2011.

    Off that news, I have coined the Marlins Marketing theme this year:

    Welcome to the Hanley Ramirez Farewell Tour.

  511. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    lol, Mel, I wasn’t correcting you, made my own typo… that was supposed to go in the search box not the comment box.

  512. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

    BTW, happy birthday, SJ, and you beat me to the punch on not being Rebecca’s dad….

  513. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “merry me” at the game.

    Keep em coming!

  514. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “marry me Jeter”at the game.

    Keep em coming!

  515. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    15. You think Joba Chamberlain should be in the bullpen permanently

  516. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    kidding… but seriously, he’s a starter.

  517. Jeff NJ April 16th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Not Rebecca’s father hmm? Well there is one other prominent person with a birthday today being entertained at the White House, he goes by Pope Benedict XVI. However, he’s turning 81 so that’s no milestone. So the real Pope and the Pope of the Lohud Yankee blog share the big day, cool. Have a great birthday Joe.

  518. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

    16. You think Mike Francesa is an expert on the Yankees.

  519. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    “16. You think Mike Francesa is an expert on the Yankees.”

    I like that one the best.

  520. Kat April 16th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Hey guys, I know that this is not the place for this, so feel free to yell at me if you’d like, but I need some help. I am writing an article for class that is due on friday and I need to get the opinion of some MEN!!! So, if you are willing to help, can you answer the questions below??

    If you are single, great… If you are taken, consider how you’d answer if you became single once again.

    Have you ever, or would you consider going speed dating?

    Why or why not?

    You can either post your answers here or email them to me at kz1213@gmail.com. Please be sure to include your name (you can make one up if you don’t want to use your real name), your age and where you are from.

    I really appreciate it!

  521. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    AA Trenton’s Jose Tabata brought his game bat today he was 2 for 5, both hits were doubles, and he got robbed of tieing the game in the 9th by a line out DP

    Action Jackson was 2 for 4 w/ a BB
    —————————–

    AAA SWB

    WOW Lance Broadway(WhiteSox RHP stud) was dominant today vs Scranton

    and he still got the 4 – 2 loss but had SWB players off rythmn, Gardner made a triple out of a would be single grounder to Broadway in the 1st and he threw it away as Brett went through first motored into third base, Castro would ground out, Gardner scores and it was 1 – 1 until the 6th when Miranda went deep to RF to make it 2 – 1…..

    8th inning Brett Gardner hits a sacrifice bunt. Throwing error by pitcher Lance Broadway. Gregory Porter scores. Brett Gardner to 3rd. (YES AGAIN, HE WAS PESKY), Miranda singles Gardner scores 4 – 2.

    It was over because 8th inning Scott Patterson came in
    1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 K’s
    GO/FO 0:1… CB you’ll love this 15-9

    Broadway was dominant his GO/FO was 14:6, he went 8 IP, his mistake was Brett Gardner was born. :lol:

  522. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    15. Your ears dont cringe everytime youre at a game during the 7th inning stretch.

    seriously, can they please get rid of that atrocious Kate Smith rendition of God Bless America? Take me out to the ball game was just fine.

  523. mel April 16th, 2008 at 2:49 pm

    Is there something we don’t know Rebecca?

    Do we need DNA tests for a paternity suit?

  524. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “marry me Jeter”at the game.
    15.You think Joba Chamberlain should be in the bullpen permanently.
    16.You think Wang,Hughes and Melky should have been traded for Santana.

  525. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    SJ: LMAO!

    Well, I know nothing about your personal life, but I bet your children are hella lucky to have you as a dad =)

    You know, it’s kind of funny-my dad doesn’t really care about baseball, at all, but without him, I’d never be into sports in the first place.

    I remember days when he would pick me up from Hebrew school, and I’d be in a bad mood (being the most unpopular kid in the class + religious education = not fun), and he’d ask me if I wanted to go to a Nets or Devils game that night (Yankee games came later), and he’d be completely serious, tickets in his coat pocket, didn’t even have to stop home…

    …Some of the best nights of my chilhood.

  526. mel April 16th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    I got one:

    You trust stats and sabermetrics more than your own two eyes.

  527. karebear April 16th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

    17. You don’t believe “good looking females” can be true fans.

  528. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    18. you think not getting Santana kills your franchise for years to come.

  529. ItalianGreco April 16th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    17. You think Micheal Kay is an expert on the Yankees

  530. ItalianGreco April 16th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    I mean #19

  531. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    “seriously, can they please get rid of that atrocious Kate Smith rendition of God Bless America?”

    Why dont we use the God Bless America from the guy that sang it in our playoff runs? It could be a good luck thing. It worked then. Why not now?

  532. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Kat – not really. Maybe for fun, (40 year old virgin style), but not with any expectations of it actually working or being worthwhile. A friend of mine a few years ago actually suggested it, again, for fun… but we decided it would be a little awkward, fully expecting to see nothing but less than attractive 40-something divorced women.

    Keeping in mind, we were 4 attractive mid-to-late 20′s guys that didn’t have problems getting dates. And I don’t mean to be harsh with the type of people we expected to see there, speed dating just has that stigma attached to it; or at least in our minds at that point in time, it did. We were curious though.

  533. Blargh April 16th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    “You trust stats and sabermetrics more than your own two eyes.”

    Damn, there goes my fan status

  534. V April 16th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    I became a Yankees’ fan in 2003 (when I moved to NJ). Wife is lifelong, though.

  535. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

    19. Pink Yankee hats.

  536. CaptainsCorner April 16th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    The booing was stupid but I think it had more to do with the person taking the number and not that the actual # was being used. If the Yanks traded for or signed Santana, Teixeira or any good player they never would of heard 1 sound. I agree he was not treated right but the # plus his performances in the first couple of games pitched was why he got booed but the # added to it. When I think of Hawkins I think of 500 ft homeruns..

  537. ftre April 16th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    I like the Francesca one.

    I don’t think the sabermetrics one applies to bandwagon jumpers. Thats more of a stats vs scouts sort of a thing.

    We need something about John Sterling’s terrible homerun calls.

  538. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “marry me Jeter”at the game.
    15.You think Joba Chamberlain should be in the bullpen permanently.
    16.You think Wang,Hughes and Melky should have been traded for Santana
    17.You think Mike Francesa and Michael Kay are experts on the Yankees.
    18.You don’t believe “good looking females” watch baseball.
    19.You think not getting Santana kills your franchise for years to come.

  539. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    I was thinking that myself, CaptainsCorner… I wonder if Hughes had taken the number would he have gotten a single boo or any harsh treatment at all.

  540. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    sos 27, I think they should just go back to take me out to the ball game…switching it in 2001 was for very good reason and keeping it for the following season was classy, but I never thought it should be here to stay. If theyre going to keep it, at least upgrade on the rendition..Kate Smith..great person, horrendous singer.

  541. mel April 16th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Blargh,

    If you’re legally blind or have chronic conjunctivitis, you get a pass.

  542. westchester dave April 16th, 2008 at 3:00 pm

    20. You complain that you’ve never heard of anyone in the bullpen other than Mariano.

  543. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    yes, we do:

    20) you believe John Sterling when he says a ball ” is high, it is far…….”

  544. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 3:01 pm

    20. you believe Roger Clemens was a true Yankee

  545. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Rebecca -

    I object to the inclusion of Pink Yankees hats!!!! Or any pink Yankees paraphernalia. It’s cute. (Especially on little girls!)

  546. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    and for the record, I do think that many good looking females watch baseball……all my lovelies watch the games with me and I dont date ugly women….doesnt mean theyre true fans.

  547. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

    Hugh -

    I never thought the reason they started singing God Bless America at the games would be here to stay either….

  548. Bronx April 16th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    Maybe beating a dead horse, but…

    21. You believe Phil Rizzuto was “not good in any capacity”.

  549. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

    But I do think they should rotate different versions, for no other reason than to keep it interesting.

  550. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    “20) you believe John Sterling when he says a ball ” is high, it is far…….” ”

    LOL :lol:

  551. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “marry me Jeter”at the game.
    15.You think Joba Chamberlain should be in the bullpen permanently.
    16.You think Wang,Hughes and Melky should have been traded for Santana
    17.You think Mike Francesa and Michael Kay are experts on the Yankees.
    18.You don’t believe “good looking females” watch baseball.
    19.You think not getting Santana kills your franchise for years to come.
    20.you believe Roger Clemens was a true Yankee
    21.You think Kays”generation trey” is cool.

  552. PJH April 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I dont think fans were booing because someone was wearing 21. They were booing becaus Hawkins was wearing 21. If Cano, Hughes, IPK, or Joba got 21, it would not be such problem in my opinion.

  553. PJH April 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I dont think fans were booing because someone was wearing 21. They were booing becaus Hawkins was wearing 21. If Cano, Hughes, IPK, or Joba got 21, it would not be such problem in my opinion.

  554. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I like that they still play god bless america.

  555. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    So, Hugh, why can’t attractive women be considered true fans?

  556. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 3:06 pm

    I certainly dont want to bring politics into this but being as we are still at war in Iraq that is why we are still singing God Bless America during he 7th inning.

    As for Kate Smith as a native of Delaware and all Philadelphia teams being my teams growing up Kate Smith rendition of GBA is a staple version. For those that dont know she was somewhat of a good luck charm in the 70-80′s for the Flyers her record when she sang was amazing. The best was when she actually walked on the ice the crowd went wild you would think she was Bobby Clarke or something.

  557. Kat April 16th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    Thanks, Chris NY – I really appreciate it!

    This is a fun list. I LIVE with a bandwagon fan. My roommate is the worst – he actually refused to watch Monday’s game because he said he was “mad” at them for Sunday night. Once I told him they had hit three homeruns in the first few innings, he was singing a different tune.

  558. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “marry me Jeter”at the game.
    15.You think Joba Chamberlain should be in the bullpen permanently.
    16.You think Wang,Hughes and Melky should have been traded for Santana
    17.You think Mike Francesa and Michael Kay are experts on the Yankees.
    18.You don’t believe “good looking females” watch baseball.
    19.You think not getting Santana kills your franchise for years to come.
    20.you believe Roger Clemens was a true Yankee
    21.You think Kays”generation trey” is cool.
    22.you believe John Sterling when he says a ball ” is high, it is far…….”
    23.You get up for the 7th inning stretch and actually start stretching.

  559. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    I’ve met and/or dated attractive women in 2 capacities regarding being Yankee fans:

    1). Those that think they look cute in Yankee gear and want to spend time with their bf’s and therefore will watch the games (these type of “fans” tend to change their “favorite teams” as their boyfriends change).

    2.) Those that are actually fans before (and potentially after) dating you, know something about the game and the team, and are not relieved when the game is “finally over.”

    I plan to marry the latter…

  560. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pm

    “I like that they still play god bless america.”

    Why not have the one that the opera singer in the playoffs did?

  561. V April 16th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    “Hey guys, I know that this is not the place for this, so feel free to yell at me if you’d like, but I need some help. I am writing an article for class that is due on friday and I need to get the opinion of some MEN!!! So, if you are willing to help, can you answer the questions below??

    If you are single, great… If you are taken, consider how you’d answer if you became single once again.

    Have you ever, or would you consider going speed dating?

    Why or why not?

    You can either post your answers here or email them to me at kz1213@gmail.com. Please be sure to include your name (you can make one up if you don’t want to use your real name), your age and where you are from.

    I really appreciate it!”

    No – I’m a reserved person, and don’t get attached lightly. (Married now, but wouldn’t speed date when single).

    24 yrs old.

    Think of a male’s name starting with V ;-)

  562. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Gayle,

    Kate Smith is a piece of Americana. I just think when people hear the same exact thing over again, it loses it’s meaning. Just the fact that some people wish they would do something else means it’s not doing what it set out to do.

    That’s why I think they should rotate different versions of GBA, and perhaps another patriotic song or two. The sentiment would be the same, but there’d be some variety. Because the war is still going on, I think it is important to keep doing it. It is distressing to me that there is a reason to keep up the practice. The day that they can move on to Take Me Out to the Ballgame, or even, heaven forbid, Cotton-Eyed Joe (or some such nonsense) will be a happy day in his country.

  563. PJH April 16th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Lol at anti-mussina. He cant be older than 9.

  564. 56Bomber April 16th, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    “Why dont we use the God Bless America from the guy that sang it in our playoff runs? It could be a good luck thing. It worked then. Why not now?”

    They started that after 9/11. Our playoff runs were better when it was “take me out to the ballgame”.

  565. anieJagger April 16th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Funny that you would bash stats and sabermetrics when your own GM himself is into that stuff big-time. That’s why he dumped Bernie after 2006, why he didn’t re-sign Vizcaino, why he is comfortable going with a pitching staff of youth over aging veterans with declining statistical production, why he got rid of Cairo and constructed a bench that can actually hit the ball. Also, Joe Girardi has a copy of Baseball Prospectus in his office. So say what you will, but there is substance to trusting statistical analysis over your own eyes. Your eyes don’t retain even a small fraction of the information it senses.

  566. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    how can you complain about Kate Smith while we still have
    Cotten eye Joey????

    22. you think Bob Shepard is a broadway actor

  567. V April 16th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    “I’ve met and/or dated attractive women in 2 capacities regarding being Yankee fans:

    1). Those that think they look cute in Yankee gear and want to spend time with their bf’s and therefore will watch the games (these type of “fans” tend to change their “favorite teams” as their boyfriends change).

    2.) Those that are actually fans before (and potentially after) dating you, know something about the game and the team, and are not relieved when the game is “finally over.”

    I plan to marry the latter…”

    I married the latter ;-)

    Though I have to root for the Cardinals if they ever face the Yankees. Sorry ;-)

  568. rb15 April 16th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    This entire thing is so stupid, imo. And we all sit here complaining about how the media blows every little thing in the empire out of porportion?

    Paulie should have stepped up and said something – to be a Yankee Great forever, you have to be a Great Yankee forever. I think he should have been watching out for the team here – how does it help the Yankees of 2008 to have everybody still mooning around over the dynasty Yankees? Now all we have is a relief pitcher whose been mentally beat into submission, upset fans, an embarassed front office, and an ex-player who apparently doesn’t feel confident enough in his own career to let it ride.

    Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?

  569. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    Doreen, that Kate smith rendition is border line Rosanne Barr’s national anthem. it needs to go and all copies of it should be burned so nobody will ever have to listen to it again.

    BRING BACK TAKE ME OUT TO THE BALL GAME…that’s it, Im starting a petition

    And why do I think that good looking women cant be true fans? I dont think that, its just the way it is…and to be honest, I really dont know why.

  570. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    24) You do your homework during the game :-D

  571. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

    24. you say things like “jeter is not a true captain. he is in this game for himself. he only cares about his image and nothing else”

    Jeter and Mariano did not tell him to change his number, they let him know it might not get any easier for him, their TEAMMATE, if he didn’t. I suppose you think Mariano is a “piece of cr@p” too?

    A-Rod is the best player in the game. but he is no leader of men.

  572. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    22 or whatever number we’re up to: People who only own Derek Jeter T shirts/jerseys

  573. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    SOS27 -

    I object to #23 – actual stretching during the 7th inning stretch. Because if you are doing that, it means you haven’t moved from your seat from the beginning of the game!

  574. Martin April 16th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Pete,

    His life is “miserable” because he has to change numbers?! Some perspective please?! First Jeter has to tell the fans to stop booing Arod. Now Paulie has to tell the fans to stop booing Hawkins over jersey numbers. This is rich stuff.

  575. 56Bomber April 16th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Hugh – I second the petition for the return to “take me out to the ballgame”… not gonna touch that comment about good looking women though.

  576. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    “1). Those that think they look cute in Yankee gear and want to spend time with their bf’s and therefore will watch the games (these type of “fans” tend to change their “favorite teams” as their boyfriends change).

    2.) Those that are actually fans before (and potentially after) dating you, know something about the game and the team, and are not relieved when the game is “finally over.”

    I plan to marry the latter…”

    —————————————-
    Easier option.

    3. Marry someone who knows nothing about baseball and mold them into being a diehard Yankee fan. I did.

  577. Adam April 16th, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    When did Cano start rocking the high socks? Is he just trying to change things up like A-Rod did last year?

  578. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    V
    speed dated a few years ago- it was fun.
    dated 2 girls for a while (not at the same time)

  579. Kat April 16th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Thanks, V!!!

    Chris NY, I am the latter… but I seem to scare away guys with my knowledge/ passion for the game. They can’t handle it! :)

  580. Rishi April 16th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Adam – that was part of his Jackie Robinson homage…

  581. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    Hugh -

    Kate Smith’s version is from a different era (musically), but is NOWHERE NEAR Rosanne Barr’s totally disrespectful version of the National Anthem.

  582. 56Bomber April 16th, 2008 at 3:17 pm

    25) you refer to Ronin Tynan as “that the opera singer”

  583. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    “They started that after 9/11. Our playoff runs were better when it was “take me out to the ballgame”.

    56bomber-Im just saying if they are going to sing god bless america. Why not from a person who sang it during our playoff runs.

  584. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

    Ok ladies on here, I have to ask one question since we’re talking about attractive women being fans or fake fans.

    I am all for women looking good, going out in designer jeans and heels, etc… But do any TRUE fans really go to the Stadium wearing high heels?

    Speaking of the Stadium,

    25) you think the phrase “The Stadium” can apply to more than one team’s playing field.

  585. Mike Mineo April 16th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    surprisingly enough, Hawkins has been one of the only steady relievers on this team since he had a shaky beginning. the only reason his ERA looks the way it is was because of that one appearance where he yielded 6 runs. since then, he has pitched 5 scoreless innings with just 3 hits. not too bad so far.

    I hope fans give him a louder applause than usual and show him the proper support. booing at him over something as silly as a number is a disgrace to Yankees fans everywhere. they are the sort of people that bring a bad reputation to the fan base.

  586. Andy Hawkins April 16th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    24. You were stunned when Joe Torre left, because the Yankees never, ever, ever change managers.

    I love this list, by the way. I know a bunch of ’96ers who fit at least 10 of the criteria. And they think they’re true fans? They had the convenience of not having to watch through the Chuck Cary years, dammit!

  587. andrew33 April 16th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    #26 you flip to american idol durning the 5th inning of a yankees-rays game in april
    oh wait … i did that last night, guess i’m not a true fan

  588. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

    i get really annoyed at people who wear Yankees stuff for fashion. I see so many damn people wearing Yankees stuff but unless i can absolutely tell they aren’t just wearing it for fashion, they are not worthy of the “fan to fan” nod. When i see people wearing the name t-shirts i always wait to see if it’s someone besides Derek Jeter before i give them the nod. This girl in my spanish class had a Yankees shirt on the other day, and i was waiting all class to see which one it was. She got up and it was a throw-back Cano t shirt. (i call the Cano 22 shirts throw-backs, i have one too). So i gave her the nod.

  589. Kat April 16th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Chris NY – high heels, not allowed. I am strictly a sneakers or flip flop gal when I am at the game.

  590. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    Ronan Tynan’s rendition of GBA is the best. i love that he sings the entire thing, no one else does.

  591. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

    “I object to #23 – actual stretching during the 7th inning stretch. Because if you are doing that, it means you haven’t moved from your seat from the beginning of the game!”

    Doreen-Polatees at games? I refuse to take it off! You should be running to the bathroom in that case.

  592. Jeff NJ April 16th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    “3. Marry someone who knows nothing about baseball and mold them into being a diehard Yankee fan. I did”

    I agree with that S.O.S. That’s what I did. I can’t tell you the thrill I get when I look over and see the wife reading about the Yankees in the paper. As for my 31 week old fetus (son to be), he will have no choice but to be a Yankee fan. It could be the biggest thing I look forward to in my near future life.

  593. SJ44 April 16th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    25. Anybody who has Anti-(insert players name) in their screen names.

  594. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    “They can’t handle it!” Kat, that just means THEY’RE not true fans….. I get annoyed more when women pretend to be interested and act like they know something, when they really don’t. I’d rather you either A- know what you’re talking about, or B – admit you don’t know but you want to learn because it’s something I’m interested in…..

    So, don’t worry about those you scare away, help them to the door.

  595. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    The problem with Tynan’s version is that it goes on FOREVER it becomes not the 7th inning stretch but the 7th inning (we could have played half an inning already by now) aria

  596. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Chris NY

    Are you suggesting a correlation between footwear and fandom? Just asking.

  597. mel April 16th, 2008 at 3:23 pm

    Apologies if this has been posted. Fabulous article on CMW.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

    Learned some new things.

    1. I now know the real reason the Mariners hate us.
    2. If it weren’t for Jaret Wright, Wang wouldn’t be our #1 today.
    3. The arbitration hearing really affected him and I think has motivated him.

  598. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 3:24 pm

    friday night games at the stadium are like an 80′s discotheque….all you hear is unison sniffing in the bathrooms, its hysterical.

  599. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    No, A-Rod does not have the personality to be a true leader, a captain. A leader inspires people to follow them. He doesn’t have that quality the way Jeter, Mariano, Posada, etc do.

  600. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    my girlfriend of several years knew absolutely nothing about baseball when we met. now she wears Yankees things, can name most of the 25 man roster, recognizes players by their faces, sounds genuinely disappointed during a game if something doesn’t go well, but she still doesn’t particularly enjoy watching.

  601. Rockin' Rich April 16th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    Did Paul ever speak up about this? If not, for shame! Not classy.

  602. Andy Hawkins April 16th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

    26. You were stunned when Joe Torre left the Yankees, because the Yankees never, ever, ever change managers.

  603. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    lol, no Jimmy.. I’m saying fans go to the game to see the game. I see a lot of women dressed more like they’re there to be seen themselves. Not that I have a problem with beautiful women looking good…. Quite the contrary. I’m just asking if any of them actually care about the game.

  604. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “marry me Jeter”at the game.
    15.You think Joba Chamberlain should be in the bullpen permanently.
    16.You think Wang,Hughes and Melky should have been traded for Santana
    17.You think Mike Francesa and Michael Kay are experts on the Yankees.
    18.You don’t believe “good looking females” watch baseball.
    19.You think not getting Santana kills your franchise for years to come.
    20.you believe Roger Clemens was a true Yankee
    21.You think Kays”generation trey” is cool.
    22.you believe John Sterling when he says a ball ” is high, it is far…….”
    23.You get up for the 7th inning stretch and actually start stretching
    24.You think Jeter isnt a captain because he isnt vocal enough.
    25.Women going to games in high heels.
    26.Me. because i didnt know that opera singers name. Ronan Tanyon.

  605. Propaghandi April 16th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Paul O’Neill kicked the ball and hit the cutoff man on a fly, holding a runner on third from scoring. That’s why his number deserves to be retired. Everyone else only uses 2 limbs to play baseball.

    Sissy 2-limbers…

    Paul will eat Hawkins for breakfast and ask for seconds.

  606. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    SOS27-

    Not THAT kind of stretching — Just standing up and maybe stretching out your arms. :)

    How about a quick stretch and THEN a bathroom run???

  607. saucY April 16th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    yeah sos, i usually stretch during the 7th (and before the top of the 7th the rare times i’m at a yankee away game). it usually looks like this..

  608. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    “12. youre a female”

    Without discrimination, that is the funny and most honest one I have seen thus far. Of course there are exceptions.

  609. Sara April 16th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    SOS can you add this…

    27. you wear a pink NY Yankee anything and think that it is official Yankee gear!
    (nothing pisses me off more!)

  610. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    this is preposterous. 3 and a half hours until game time and no lineup posted yet? Pete the slacker.

  611. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    lol @ “Sissy 2-limbers…”

  612. al arodien April 16th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    i think the same people who booed A-rod when he came here are the same peaple who booed tino when he came here and are the same people who booed hawkins, the same guys also boo all free agents that the yanees signed! just because they didnt started there carier with the yankees! the thing that they dont notice that most yankee heros are not HOME GROWN!!!

  613. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “marry me Jeter”at the game.
    15.You think Joba Chamberlain should be in the bullpen permanently.
    16.You think Wang,Hughes and Melky should have been traded for Santana
    17.You think Mike Francesa and Michael Kay are experts on the Yankees.
    18.You don’t believe “good looking females” watch baseball.
    19.You think not getting Santana kills your franchise for years to come.
    20.you believe Roger Clemens was a true Yankee
    21.You think Kays”generation trey” is cool.
    22.you believe John Sterling when he says a ball ” is high, it is far…….”
    23.You get up for the 7th inning stretch and actually start stretching
    24.You think Jeter isnt a captain because he isnt vocal enough.
    25.Women going to games in high heels.
    26.Me. because i didnt know that opera singers name. Ronan Tanyon
    27.People who thought the Yankees winning years were over when we lost Torre.

  614. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    Wow -

    The pink gear really seems to get to some people. I’m really surprised. I know it’s not “official gear,” but I figure, why not? (I don’t own any pink gear, but considered getting it for my daughters and me.)

  615. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    Number whatever: You think the only good player they had in the 80s was Don Mattingly

  616. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    anti-mussina: “i hate to say it but i think people hate on hawkins because he is black. it’s really sad but probably true.”

    Dude, please think before you say something so senseless. you are now accusing people who hate Hawkins as being racist. Explain their liking toward Cano, Jeter, and thug Johnny Damon then.

  617. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    I get annoyed by ANY color gear that isn’t Yankee blue, white or gray. I saw a guy in a bright yellow Yankees hat with a red logo once. WTF?

  618. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Chirs I hear ya,
    Not all the fans at a game can be like the rapid nutjobs (used with affection) that post here. The others might as well be nice looking women. I would say a lot of them are arm candy for their BF or hubbys.
    And women generally want to look good – its a good place to meet guys (I would guess)

  619. mel April 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    anti,

    Don’t know if you’re trying to stir up something or not. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

    But you’re using fallacy.

    By your false logic, you’re saying that the fans also hate Austin Jackson and half of Jeter. You may have a point about Reggie Jackson, but I think people don’t like him because of his arrogance.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

  620. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    shoudl we add jewish people to the list? or would that open up a too big of a can of worms?

  621. al arodien April 16th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    well guys some a-rod numbers ! He is 1 for 14 with runners in scoring position! Not Bad??!!

  622. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    let’s not make this a race thing, Morgan Ensberg was booed for wearing the number. As others have said, the caliber of the player may have changed that (if Hughes or Santana or someone else chose that number that was better than Ensberg or Hawkins), but this is not a race thing. A foolish, ignorant, misguided thing, yes, but not a race thing in this case.

  623. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    SOS – I think you list has gotten a little far away from the true meaning of a bandwagoner lol

  624. wakeupits2008 April 16th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    “No, A-Rod does not have the personality to be a true leader, a captain. A leader inspires people to follow them. He doesn’t have that quality the way Jeter, Mariano, Posada, etc do.”

    You sound like you are lost in 1998. Did Jeter/Posada/Mariano suddenly lose their amazing inspirational leadership qualities over the last 7 years or something? Or is it all ARod’s fault that the Yankees have been eliminated in the first round the last several years? Do you actually have examples (presumably more than a few) of Jeter and Posada and Mariano being great leaders and also (presumably more than a few) examples of ARod not being a leader?

    And who is “etc”? Tino, Bernie, O’Neill, Torre? Aren’t you just basically glorifying the dynasty teams? Shouldn’t you have gotten past that by now???

  625. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Doreen,
    deal!!

    saucy,
    freekin hillarious. I had my employee talking to me and started busting up. He thought i was laughing at him. Thanks. Their goes the little professionalism i had left.

  626. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    Jimmy 27: “its a good place to meet guys”

    now we know why you go to the games!

  627. Derek - RETIRE 21!!! Moose Is The New Chet Stedman!!! April 16th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    Been a while guys… heres my thread run-down.

    Pete – You’re such a hater. haha…

    SJ – Happy bday

    Andrew – Sorry man, you effed up on that one.

    Reggie Jackson – not deserving

    Paul O’Neill – deserving

    Anti-Moose – don’t start man thats not gonna end well

    S.O.S. – Ronan Tynan not Tanyon le Sturtze… hehe

    Doreen – When i hear Kate Smith singing I imagine Suzyn Waldman dressed in 1920′s garb with the dark circles in her eyes wailing away… If Suz ever sang, thats what she’d sound like.

    Good to see Paulie still sparks lots of fun.

  628. Mikey G April 16th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    I wonder what Pete A would be saying if Farnsworth was wearing #21???

    My guess? He’d be bashing him.

  629. al arodien April 16th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Hugh! you suck!!!! YOU ARE A GUY THAT BELONGS ON THAT LIST!!!!

  630. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “marry me Jeter”at the game.
    15.You think Joba Chamberlain should be in the bullpen permanently.
    16.You think Wang,Hughes and Melky should have been traded for Santana
    17.You think Mike Francesa and Michael Kay are experts on the Yankees.
    18.You don’t believe “good looking females” watch baseball.
    19.You think not getting Santana kills your franchise for years to come.
    20.you believe Roger Clemens was a true Yankee
    21.You think Kays”generation trey” is cool.
    22.you believe John Sterling when he says a ball ” is high, it is far…….”
    23.You get up for the 7th inning stretch and actually start stretching
    24.You think Jeter isnt a captain because he isnt vocal enough.
    25.Women going to games in high heels.
    26.Me. because i didnt know that opera singers name. Ronan Tanyon
    27.People who thought the Yankees winning years were over when we lost Torre.
    28.People that think list has gotten a little far away from the true meaning of a bandwagoner.lol

    Just a tad bit Russell.

  631. mel April 16th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    (Russell, Johnny’s half white/half Thai)

  632. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Very true Jimmy, I just think it’s a clue to who’s high maintenance and who’s not… If I’m at a nice lounge, I want to see heels and good jeans. If I’m at the Stadium, I want to see good jeans and Yankee gear. I don’t object to the “cute” yankee gear, I buy plenty for my gf.

    IMO, there are many different types of “looking good” and beautiful women should look just as good in sweats as heels…

    My point as it relates to this thread is, the high heels at games probably points more towards high maintenance eye candy, and thus, they made the list…

  633. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    So does being female make me less of a Yankee fan or me being a Yankee fan make me less of a female?

  634. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    BrianPA you’re posting out of context- are you the NYPost?

    Actually its a good place to meet women too.

  635. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    “Number whatever: You think the only good player they had in the 80s was Don Mattingly”

    You mean he wasnt?

  636. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    Haha – good one SoS.

    mel – “(Russell, Johnny’s half white/half Thai)” I know, but he acts like he is in the hood sometimes lol

  637. Sara April 16th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Doreen…no pink gear! Just because they are girls doesn’t mean they have to wear pink…i am a girl and all i have ever worn are the blue and white! NO PINK! it makes girls who really understand the game (better than most guys) look exactly like what some of these guys on this blog are talking about!

  638. A.B.K April 16th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Tonight’s line up:
    Melky
    Jeter
    Abreu
    A-Rod
    Matsui-LF
    Posada-DH
    Giambi
    Cano
    Moeller.

  639. EdFL. April 16th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    SJ44,
    a bit off-topic. The Atlanta Braves’Moylan and Soriano are on the DL. Do you think the Yankees might be able to send either Farnsworth or Bruney to Atlanta? Maybe both?

  640. mel April 16th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Russell,

    So that’s where he learned to do naked pullups. Ewww.

  641. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    “S.O.S. – Ronan Tynan not Tanyon le Sturtze… hehe”

    Damn i cant get it right even when its spelled out for me.

  642. rb15 April 16th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Ha, Rebecca.

    Also, please – as if there’s not tons of men that try to look their best before they go to the stadium in case there’s a cute girl sitting behind them. the hair, the clothes, etc.

  643. Motown Yankees Fan April 16th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Word to what Rebecca asks. What’s the deal with you guys and women Yankee fans? Do we somehow not count? Do you doubt that some of us grew up like some of you, watching the games on Channel 11, listing to Rizzuto and White, caring about games, making 1978 scrapbooks???

  644. UTube April 16th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    29. You believe Phil Hughes’ nick name should be Phil Franchise.

    30. You believe Phil Hughes > Clay Bucholtz.

  645. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Dave Righetti was pretty good

  646. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    “You sound like you are lost in 1998.”

    When did I say anything about winning championships? Plenty of good leaders don’t win championships. They lead, but it’s still a team, they can’t win on their own. Etc means there are plenty of good leaders that are not current Yankees. My evidence is that numerous players have shown and voiced their respect for Jeter and Mo and have tried to follow their lead on and off the field.

    I’d explain further, but I’m assuming a fifth grader hasn’t met many great leaders, so you probably don’t have the capacity to understand what I’m saying.

  647. Sara April 16th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Rebecca you are a proud, smart, female Yankee fan! it doesn’t make you less of anything!

  648. saucY April 16th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    29. You drive a truck around town with a full ‘Ho-Down’ going on in the back, and just happen to be a Yankee fan too.

  649. al arodien April 16th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    a.b.k.- where did you get it?

  650. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    al arodien………..early in thier lives, Jewish children are groomed to be Mets and Jets fans. Its even part of the curriculum in Hebrew school.

  651. whoa April 16th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Peter,

    Excuse me, but although the fans acted like jerks, if a FA doesn’t want to come to NY because of this incident, then the Yankees are better off without them.

  652. Shepherd April 16th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Haha check out this atricle on Pavano I haven’t laughed this hard in a while.

    His agent says he’s a rare 1-2 starter who guarantees 200-innings and will command big bucks as a free agent…. hahahahaha

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....image.html

  653. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    How to know if your a Yankee bandwagon jumper.

    1.You wear a jersey and dont know who’s number it is.
    2.You think the Babe is a pig on t.v.
    3.You think Babe Ruth is a chocolate bar.
    4.You cant name 4 players on the team.
    5.You dont know how many champioships your team has.
    6.You can’t name who played Firstbase before Tino.
    7.You dont know the managers name.
    8.Your a fan of both Yankees and red sox.
    9.You boo players on Opening Day.
    10.You believe its your “right” to boo Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera when they play poorly.
    11.You hate everything about the team.
    12.You whine because its been (boo boo) 7 “long” years since you won a World Series.
    13.You cry about a star player struggling(Jeter/Arod etc.)and want them traded.
    14.Your a female with a sign “marry me Jeter”at the game.
    15.You think Joba Chamberlain should be in the bullpen permanently.
    16.You think Wang,Hughes and Melky should have been traded for Santana
    17.You think Mike Francesa and Michael Kay are experts on the Yankees.
    18.You don’t believe “good looking females” watch baseball.
    19.You think not getting Santana kills your franchise for years to come.
    20.you believe Roger Clemens was a true Yankee
    21.You think Kays”generation trey” is cool.
    22.you believe John Sterling when he says a ball ” is high, it is far…….”
    23.You get up for the 7th inning stretch and actually start stretching
    24.You think Jeter isnt a captain because he isnt vocal enough.
    25.Women going to games in high heels.
    26.Me. because i didnt know that opera singers name. Ronan Tnyan.
    27.People who thought the Yankees winning years were over when we lost Torre.
    28.People that think list has gotten a little far away from the true meaning of a bandwagoner.lol
    29.Fans who wear hats that isnt the original color and think it is.
    30.Fans who give the middle finger to others that are on same team.

  654. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 16th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    well guys some a-rod numbers ! He is 1 for 14 with runners in scoring position! Not Bad??!!

    ——————–

    you have to understand he’s not a hits for average guy anymore, whether it started when Ortiz was hitting walkoffs(PED induced), the one thing I have disliked about Alex’s AB when he’s in these situations is that he is swinging for the fence, I’d rather he put the ball in play and line out to RF or in the gap, but he literally got away from this, you’d have to be crazy not to notice that he is swinging for the GW HR, and swings like that are low pct % come playoff time.

    I think David Wright said it best a HR comes mostly on mistake pitches that you try to drive. The only fault Alex has is he swings for power instead of AVG.

  655. Sara April 16th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    You go Motown!

  656. Kat April 16th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Rebecca, I wonder that exact same thing myself!! :) Whenever I try to talk baseball with my girlfriends, I get frustrated and say, “I should have been born a boy.”

  657. joe b April 16th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Have the Yankees retired Jeffrey Maiers number yet.

  658. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    For the record, I am not in any way saying there are not true fans that are women. Quite the opposite. I’m saying, from my own experience, I’ve seen different types of women that either are fans or just pretend to be… that’s all I’ve been talking about. I absolutley have met some that actually know what they’re talking about, like I said, including my gf.

    And to be fair, I will also go on the record as saying I also have several guy friends who also say they’re fans, but barely pay attention or know what’s going on with the team other than the occasional game they watch or headline….

  659. al arodien April 16th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    Hugh- i dont know where you get your information but i got a lot of jewish buddys and only one is a mets fan!

  660. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    how many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?

  661. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (aka Joe) April 16th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    “So does being female make me less of a Yankee fan or me being a Yankee fan make me less of a female?”

    That sounds like a Philosophy 101 question.

  662. wakeupits2008 April 16th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    “My evidence is that numerous players have shown and voiced their respect for Jeter and Mo and have tried to follow their lead on and off the field.”

    The same exact thing is true about ARod. Hell, the same thing can be said of David Eckstein and Darin Erstad as well as dozens of other players. This is seriously your criteria for what a leader is???

  663. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    Sara -

    Thanks for that rationale. If we do get the gear, it’ll be strictly official.

    What do you think of the Alyssa Milano line?

  664. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Motown – you forgot Frank Messer.
    Who was your favorite from back then?
    I’ll go with Thurm, Willie, Nettles but the list could go on and on.

  665. gayle April 16th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Melky
    Jeter
    Bobby
    Arod
    Matsui (LF)
    Posada (DH)
    Giambi
    Cano
    Moller

    per wfan tonights lineup

  666. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    People who put their names on the back Jeter, Arod et al jersey!

  667. randyhater April 16th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    28. You argue against booing Hawkins by denigrating Paul O’Neil’s career.

  668. karebear April 16th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    I think the guys who are saying that women can’t be real fans only notice the ones who wear cut-off shirts, high heels and big hair to games. Apparently they fail to notice those of us who are there to actually watch the game and care/understand what happens, therefore propagating the trampy attire. Thanks, guys.

  669. whozat April 16th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

    “you have to understand he’s not a hits for average guy anymore”

    waitwaitwait…ARod doesn’t hit for average anymore???? What are you talking about? He’s been a .290 – .320 hitter pretty much always.

  670. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Brandon, wasn’t a big part of what A-Rod did to get back on track last year swing to drive the ball instead of trying to kill everything? Or at least that’s what I remember him saying in interviews talking about working with Kevin Long.

  671. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    31. You wear a jersey with the name on the back

  672. Sara April 16th, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    Can’t say I am a fan of the Alyssa line.
    and honestly, i am only kidding really, well only kidding a little :-) but in all honestly show your girls there is nothing wrong with wearing blue! especially Yankee blue :-)

  673. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    sorry Jennifer I did not see yor post –
    that shoulfd have been one of the first

  674. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (aka Joe) April 16th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    All the girls/women who post here should provide a photo. This will enable us to test the attractive female/baseball fan theory.

  675. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    my girlfriend’s 11 year old cousin is a total bandwagoner for every sport, it drives me crazy. he only likes highly renowned teams or teams that recently won a championship. he has all this Indianapolis Colts stuff since they won the superbowl and for college he has a ton of USC stuff, and he once asked me “how come you like the Yankees? I thought the Red Sox were better than them” I’ll tell you i’ve never wanted to punch an 11 year old so bad.

  676. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 16th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    Uh, Hugh, I’m Jewish. 100%. And I guarantee I bleed pinstripes.

    (my grandparents grew up Dodger fans in Brooklyn, but that shouldn’t matter)

  677. vrsce April 16th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

    al arodien

    Oh yeah, what about Seinfeld?

  678. Motown Yankees Fan April 16th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Jimmy – You’re right, I did forget him. I liked those three, but I also liked Roy White. I know he wasn’t the greatest, but he just carried himself with such dignity.

    Roy was also my dad’s favorite. Roy White lived near us after he retired and his daughter was a friend of my brother’s. My dad dropped him off at White’s house once for a party and watched from the car as Roy opened the door and let my brother in the house. He couldn’t believe how casual my brother was.

  679. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    “People who put their names on the back Jeter, Arod et al jersey!”
    “31. You wear a jersey with the name on the back”

    memo to self. Get rid of the personized jersey hanging in the closet.

  680. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    I highly disagree with the one about wearing a jersey with the name on the back. just because some people can’t afford to swing 200 bucks to get a nameless jersey doesn’t mean they are a bandwagoner.

  681. Sara April 16th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    is there ever going to be a consisten yankee line up?

  682. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    A leader leads, it’s pretty simple. If you inspire people to be better and play better, yes, you’re a leader. No-one ever said there’s only one leader on a team. You also don’t have to be the best player on the team to be a leader.

    I’m not saying A-Rod has no leadership qualities. He unfortunately also has qualities that sometimes turn people off or rub people the wrong way. He can be awkward, personality wise, sometimes.

  683. jennifer April 16th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    Brian, that is why I worded mine to putting YOUR name on the back. :D

    I know that jerseys are very expensive and the cheap ones have the players name on it.

  684. 2008 Yankees April 16th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    I’m on the fence about the uniform number change. On one hand, the fans pushed the envelope and made Hawkins unwelcomed. The Yankees are the ones who are the cause of this whole mess though. They give players available numbers to choose from. They should have not given Hawkins that option since they know how fans still feel about that number. Hawkins could look at it as an insult but he also could look at it as how passionate Yankee fans are about players who give it their all. I think the Yankees should hold that number for a rookie like Austin Jacksone, who came up through the system and was in their long range plans. I would be easier to swallow for the faithful followers. No disrespect to Hawkins but he is only here with a 1 year contract.

  685. Chris NY April 16th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    “I’ll tell you i’ve never wanted to punch an 11 year old so bad.”

    LOL

  686. al arodien April 16th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Hugh- please tell me that you wrote long island on purpuse wrong because if not you need to go back to fist grade!

  687. Jimmy 27 April 16th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Motown – I saw White and Randolf play in th donkey basketball game in the late 70s – still have the autograghs.

  688. Sara April 16th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Clay why don’t the guys post thier pictures. Just cause you are a guy makes you all knowing in baseball? i know plenty of guys who don’t have a clue.

  689. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    “I thought the Red Sox were better than them” I’ll tell you i’ve never wanted to punch an 11 year old so bad.”

    No. Dont hold back,knock him out!! Those are fighting words.

  690. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    like I said Rebecca, JAPS dont count. Im sure you are a true fan…your parents and grandparents however, I beg to differ.

  691. saucY April 16th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    “is there ever going to be a consisten yankee line up?”

    probably when they get consistent days off ;)

  692. wakeupits2008 April 16th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    Yeah saying ARod doesn’t hit for enough average is just incorrect.

    Sounds like you are describing a Dunn/Giambi/Sexson kind of player. ARod hits for both average and power, draws plenty of walks, and he has speed as well. There’s very little, if anything, to complain about when it comes to his performance.

  693. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    When is Ensburg going to replace Giambi!! Enough already!

  694. Doreen April 16th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    It was in the MLB catalog we got. It really seemed out of place (the Alyssa line, that is).

    karebear -

    Thus, they’re not meeting the very women they say they’d prefer to marry! They say one thing, do another.

  695. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    i have 5 jerseys and only one is nameless. I have an authentic Posada number 20 road jersey, no name. it is by far my favorite jersey. i also have a home Andy Pettitte jersey with the name, a home posada with the name, a road bernie williams with the name and a home gary sheffield with the name that i obviously no longer wear.

  696. Rishi April 16th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    line ups posted :)

  697. wakeupits2008 April 16th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    “I’m not saying A-Rod has no leadership qualities. He unfortunately also has qualities that sometimes turn people off or rub people the wrong way. He can be awkward, personality wise, sometimes.”

    I think this is a very fair statement.

  698. rb15 April 16th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    “Lawn Guyland” = Long Island, said with a LI accent.

  699. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    yeah al, I have no problem spelling the word curriculum, yet I struggle with long and island. =)

  700. Brian from PA April 16th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    okay. i have to go to la clase de espanol. hasta luego.

  701. Motown Yankees Fan April 16th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

    Jimmy – that must have been great meeting them.

  702. Bronx Bomber April 16th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    Mo and Jeter asked Hawkins about the number switch according to the Daily News. There’s nothing shameful about that…O’Neill was a cornerstone to a New York Yankee Dynasty and deserving of the honor of having his number retired, as such.

    Pete you weren’t here during the dynasty years…you are as much a Yankee outsider as Hawkins in that regard.

  703. Jeff NJ April 16th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    Hugh, shut up moron.

  704. saucY April 16th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    “I thought the Red Sox were better than them” I’ll tell you i’ve never wanted to punch an 11 year old so bad.”

    i had a similar occasion in Cancun 2006 with some kids who were from PA as well (i lived there at the time). I had a posada Tee on and one asked “who likes the yankees now?, i thought the red-sox were more of the team to like now” or something like that. i forget how i responded, i know it was good though…

  705. mel April 16th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    Chris,

    Give it up. You’re not going to convince them. Some people think that you can walk into a store and order charisma or leadership.

    I’m not saying that Alex can’t be a leader because I don’t know him. But I do know that leaders command respect by giving respect. Walking away from people without saying anything is not giving respect. (sorry to bring it up, but if we’re to believe Pete, then it’s true).

  706. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (aka Joe) April 16th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    “Clay why don’t the guys post thier pictures. Just cause you are a guy makes you all knowing in baseball? i know plenty of guys who don’t have a clue.”

    My looks are not relevant. Someone said that attractive women are not baseball fans (I don’t subscribe to that theory). To properly test the theory we would need to see what all the female posters look like.

    Seriously though, everyone should be able to post a picture. That will allow all of us to attach faces to names.

    Is anyone interested? I could e-mail Pete.

  707. frankjoeltodd April 16th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Your bandwagon list really died after 22. You should probably consider getting rid of 23-31.

  708. saucY April 16th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    “why don’t the guys post thier pictures”

    hey, i posted a video of me detatching my arms. is that not enough?

  709. S.o.S.27 April 16th, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    frankjoeltodd,
    It was fun while it lasted.

  710. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Clay, Id be willing to wager alot on the fact that if they did post their pics, none would be beauty queens….in my opinion anyway.

  711. frankjoeltodd April 16th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    this is very true

  712. Russell NY April 16th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    mel – “So that’s where he learned to do naked pullups. Ewww.”

    Yea, he must have been watching a 50-cent music video or something :)

  713. Clay Buchholz stole my laptop (aka Joe) April 16th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    “Pete you weren’t here during the dynasty years…you are as much a Yankee outsider as Hawkins in that regard.”

    Just because Pete spent the better part of the (recent) dynasty years hanging out with Khalid El-Amin doesn’t mean that he can’t have an opinion on the subject.

  714. Yoggis April 16th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    96 championship was sweetest in my memory, just because I was living in Boston area.

  715. Motown Yankees Fan April 16th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Hugh — Is there a reason you are insulting the women on this blog? Just let us know. Thanks.

  716. Drive 4-5 April 16th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    For what it’s worth here’s my take on the LaTroy Hawkins fiasco.

    The Yankees are selling sentimentality like it’s going out of style. They are playing up the last days of the Stadium for all it’s worth and they will gladly sell you a rock off the warning track as soon as it closes.

    Paul O’Neil is a link to the most recent memorable events at Yankee Stadium. The Yankees should have known better than to make #21 available for the time being. Emotions are too raw right now, especially given the publicity blitz for the Stadium closing. The Yankees are partially to blame here.

    The fans should have been intelligent enough to understand why Hawkins chose #21. There’s no excuse for booing him based on the number he chose to wear and especially because of the reason he chose it.

    LaTroy Hawkins should have pitched better than allowing 8 hits and 7 earned runs in his first 2 appearences covering only 2 innings. The Felix Heredia comparison someone had earlier is spot on. If he had pitched effectively, he would have been less likely to feel the wrath of the fans. Instead, he stunk and he got booed. Players have been getting booed at home since the days of wool uniforms. This isnt a recent invention or limited to Yankee fans. Ted Williams got booed at home. Mike Schmidt got booed at home. I understand we now live in a world of politcal correctness and think no one should ever get booed. But it’s been going on for as long as baseball has been played.

    I’ve always cringed when I hear Yankee fans boo A Rod. I’m a season ticket holder and would never do that.But it’s amazing how success turns boos to cheers. I truly think that if LaTroy Hawkins pitched like Joba Chamberlain no one would care if he wore #3.

  717. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Its not my intention to insult anyone, Im just stating how I feel from my own experiences and wisdom….and just becuase I might not find them attractive doesnt mean someone else does.

  718. Jake April 16th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Talk about acting like children…racist? That is pathetic and I hope any racist on here dies an excruciatingly painful death asap.

    Hawkins is a stand-up guy and was wearing number 21 for the right reason…Roberto Clemente.

    I love Pauly as much as the next guy, but come on, let’s not cry over spilled milk.

  719. Motown Yankees Fan April 16th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    OK Hugh, but it would be nice if you stopped making insulting, sweeping generalizations. It’s not polite.

  720. Hugh April 16th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    Im just calling it like I see it sister, sorry if I offended you….it wasnt my intent.

  721. leokitty April 16th, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    I feel really awful for Hawkins in this and I don’t know how anyone can claim that he knew what was coming when he took 21.

    I was there at Opening Day and a game where people were chanting Paul O’Neill (April 3rd) and anyone who says that it was an insignificant mumble in the stadium is wrong. The O’Neill chant in particular was very loud and spread throughout the Stadium. It was a real jerk thing to do just because the guy is wearing the HOLLOWED NUMBER OF ST PAUL O’NEILL.

  722. Anthony April 16th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    george April 16th, 2008 at 9:01 am

    well, it’s a sport for the fans, not for the beat writers. Yankee fans love Paul O’Neill. they’ve made that abundantly clear..

    Pete i don’t think described it accurately – Hawkins was getting the Paul O’Neill chant because of the uniform #. he was getting booed because he pitched like Felix Heredia – the boos may have been a bit louder because of #21, but he could have been waring number 99 and still get booed w/those performances

    ————————————————————

    George, you are absolutely wrong! He was booed the second he stepped on the field on opening day. When he was introduced, alot of the fans booed him. I have never booed a Yankee player and will never boo one.

  723. ANSKY April 16th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    I agree on two levels on the God Bless America topic:

    1: It was appropriate after 9/11. It’s not unpatriotic to say the time has passed where it’s still a boost to pride & morale. Going back to just “Take Me Out To The Ballgame” for th e7th inning stretch is fine with me.

    2: If God Bless America stays, I’m fine with that too. But please please PLEASE play a recording of Ronan Tanyon instead of that Kate Smith version. It sounds terrible. Not in a Rosanne Barr way, but it still sounds terrible.

    I would think Tanyon would be flattered if he were asked to record his own version of the song for the new stadium. He should be compensated for it too.

    And if you’re going to do it, have Tanyon record the whole song (and have the sound guy play the whole song) not just a couple verses.

    I agree on the non-Yankee color Yanks gear too. No fan should wear that crap. Wear a cammo hat? Wear a hat with a gold logo? A freakin’ RED hat????? P-I-N-K ??? Puh-LEEEZE … on all counts.

    However, I also agree on decreeing an exception to the no non-Yankee color rule for pink Yankee hats on little girls. It is cute. An age limit of about 5 would work for me. How do you police it? Just don’t make the stuff in sizes bigger than a 5-year old would wear. After that age, they have to be told ‘you’re a big girl now and big girls wear the real Yankees colors’. :)

  724. Bobsy April 16th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Fans can do what they want. They pay the prices. If Hawkins pitched well early they wouldnt be booing.

    Thats the bottom line.

    Beat writers should pipe down and report. Thankfully we all knew about Betemits eye problems right???

    When you worry about non stories like this you miss the real stories

  725. Anthony April 16th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    they booed him when he was introduced on opening day!!!!!! He didnt throw one pitch!!!!!!!!!

  726. Bobsy April 16th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    Wow. 5 minutes of your life devoted to “God Bless America”. Sorry to burden you since we are in a time of war.

    Forgive the Yanks for loving this country and respecting all the soldiers who fight for you.

  727. Matthew April 16th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    They didnt boo Hawkins on opening day. They boo’d the Yankees for not retiring O’Neills number.

    It was nothing personal. His getting shelled twice at home lead to his being boo’d since.

  728. EricNS April 16th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    Stupid fans who think O’Neill has a right to this number forever and the worker who buried a jersey at the Stadium take the fun out of the game.

  729. gdamac April 16th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    Bobsy: Yes, fans can do what they want, but that doesn’t make them right and that doesn’t mean that booing Yankees in April, without giving them a chance, is classy.

  730. Kevin April 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    No offense to O’Neil, but Roberto Clemente and the #21 means a little more historically then O’Neil. If that’s why LaTroy wanted the wear that number, there should not be any grief given to him by Yankee fans.

    I consider Yankee fans to be pretty knowledgeable, but it’s fans like this that give the rest of us a bad reputation!

  731. Patrick Bateman April 16th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    If the Yankees were to retire Paul’s number, they’d have to retire everyone else on those 4 WS teams as well. Homer Bush, Luis Sojo, Stanton, Nelson, Wetteland, Clay Bellinger, etc.

  732. CM April 16th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    I consider myself to be both a smart and passionate Yankee fan, and, at times, it is hard to balance those two. Sometimes your passions get the better of you. I, for one, was disappointed when the Yankees first signed LaTroy Hawkins, whose vast wealth of nice-guyness hasn’t seemed to translate into being a good relief pitcher (the end of last season notwithstanding).

    I was disappointed when I found out Hawkins would be the first player since O’Neill (my favorite when he was on the team) to wear #21, no matter what his reasons were. I, for one, have absolutely no problem with the fans booing and chanting “Paul O’Neill” after he got bombed, but I do think it was stupid and detrimental to do that before the guy throws a pitch. Let him get rocked first (which he has and will) then you can hammer him.

    The fact of the matter is, if he hadn’t been such a historically subpar pitcher, the fans would have been a little easier on him. The fact that he came right in and lived up (or down) to those expectations sealed his fate. He has been better lately, and maybe, if he continues his good performance, he’ll win the fans back.

    The bottom line, as always, is that the fans care about results. O’Neill did nothing but win and perform at a high level his entire career. Hawkins did it for a few months last summer and fall. Hawkins at times doesn’t seem worthy to wear a Major League uniform at all, let alone have the number 21 on his back.

    Bottom line is: I think some of the fans were a little harsh on the guy and I did feel bad for him, but, there has always been, and will always be, one surefire way to shut the boo-birds up. Play well and win. If he does that over the course of the season, he’ll be fine. If not, then he can honor Clemente by doing humanitarian work in Latin America instead of being a disgrace on the pitching mound.

    Win the crowd, and you’ll win your freedom.

  733. born today April 16th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    Paul o’neill is a better commentator than he was a player. I never liked his bat throwing antics. I had teammates in high school ball who used to piss me off with their outrage after every sumgle less than optimal outcome. These tanker fans are a bunch of losers. They need to boo themselves for being outdone as fans by others rwgo no how to act.

  734. iYankees April 16th, 2008 at 6:20 pm

    How did I know race would eventually find its way into this argument. Well, I guess it only makes sense since its presence is felt in every aspect of our lives, but come on people. It’s a goddamn baseball player’s number. Paul O’Neill never paid your rent or sat down and had a conversation with you. Yes he was a good player, but he was and never will be a true legend in the game. Let’s move on already. When the Yankees sign Mark Teixeira next year, they should give him the number. He’ll mash enough to win over most fans.

  735. Kevin P April 16th, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    Hopefully when situations like these are finally made public and the general baseball world hears about it and maybe ESPN reports on it, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of POSITIVE FANS (which is true of any team in any sport) rally around it and start cheering for Hawkins to counteract the stupidity.

    Most NORMAL real fans probably never even thought twice about it, but when they hear these buffoons start giving US a bad name, I’m sure the response will be overwhelmingly positive.

    I wish Paul would come out and say something about it, and effectively silence all those morons.

    I still don’t get the whole “boo him” when he’s a member of your team. ANYONE who wears the Yankee uniform I want to succeed, because he helps MY TEAM. That’s the right way to be selfish – caring about YOUR TEAM.

  736. yankee48104 April 16th, 2008 at 6:32 pm

    Pete,
    I read your column and blog religiously but never comment. This is one time I feel I have to:
    Well done and well put!

    Fans can have their loyalties and we are the most loyal (and best!) fans in baseball in my opinion. But this situation crossed a line that has no place in baseball or in this country, this day and age. You called it and good for you!

    At this rate, there will not be any numbers to retire; we already know that soon there will be a 100 on a Yankee players back. But we cannot implicitly retire numbers by default or boo someone for choosing a number he wanted and WAS available. Does a player have to know the in depth history of a team before he comes to play for it?

    Let’s boo Boston, not our own!

    Well done Pete, you reminded me why I like this blog so much.

  737. Hideki Balboni April 16th, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    The only players from the recent Dynasty years who should have their numbers retired are:

    Rivera
    Jeter
    Posada
    Bernie
    Pettitte
    (And Torre)

  738. Yankee2123 April 16th, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    Paul O’neill is one of my favorite Yankees, but should he have his number retired, no. If you retire his, you have to retire alot of other guys, and when will it stop, at “Now playing Right field Number 273….”

  739. Christine April 16th, 2008 at 7:22 pm

    As always, Pete. A great post.

    This is just so sad that all this is over a stinking number.

    They asked Paul what he thought about it when he was broadcasting on YES, and his answer was similar to that of the AP. I get the feeling he would rather no one else wear 21, but it’s just MY feeling.

    I don’t think it would matter what number LaTroy wore on his back, people still find a beef with him. Especially if this was racially motivated. And that is just disgusting.

    I read some of the comments on Tyler’s site. Several people indicated that he was booed for his regular season performance and not because he wore 21, but they were booing him back during spring training. They (the booers) didn’t even give the poor guy a chance. Then there are those who are ticked because he is going to wear #22.

    How should we expect OUR team to win another championship if OUR players are booed? I know this has been going on for quite some time but I think it’s time to grow up. It’s just a number.

    Bernie Williams is/was my favorite player, but I wouldn’t berate someone for wearing #51 if the Yankees didn’t retire it.

    Finally, to all you who boo one of your own players, grow up and just support your team. Find something more constructive to gripe about (like war, politics, starvation, the homeless). I liked Paulie just as much as the next person, but this is just so immature.

  740. Christine April 16th, 2008 at 7:31 pm

    “Beat writers should pipe down and report. Thankfully we all knew about Betemits eye problems right???”

    Bobsy, Pete DID cover Betemit’s PINK EYE yesterday.

    Besides, it is PETE’S blog. He can write about anything he wants ’cause the Lohud “pays the prices” like you said about the fans. You don’t pay the prices for the blog so maybe you should pipe down and respect Mr. Abraham.

  741. RustyJohn April 16th, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    Paul O’Neil = selfish pr**k.

  742. Mike April 16th, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    What class from O’Neil? He’s junk and always has been junk. Real good leader, throwing bats and kicking over water coolers and what-not. Now this. I’m sorry Paul was a good Yankee but not a good person and to tell you the truth, being a good person as well as a good player is what distinguishes the number from being retired from being un-retired.

  743. jay destro April 16th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

    wow bad job Paul, way to make the situation even worse.

  744. Mitt April 16th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    Anyone who would boo Hawkins over this is just another piece of B&T guido trash. And this is coming from a guido.

  745. MMF April 16th, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    Whatever, this is so media induced.

    Pete– when did you first raise issue with this # during the spring? About 1 nanosecond after ensberg took the number and then rekindled about 1 milisecond after hawkins claimed it? You are so a part of this fan fury even though you are allegedly taking the high road now. You dont like how LH is being treated, but this was created by you guys who had a field day with it during the lean news days in March.

    Also, the Yankees create and perpetuate the myth of players with Yankeeography. It’s all entertaining propoganda and the fans lap it up.

    For what its worth, Hawkins appeared to be a bit of a dunderhead after this issue was raised. In order to keep an even keel and avoid this utter nonsense, someone should have politely suggested that as first year yankee refrain from taking the contenitious number despite his good intentions.

    Whether the retiement of Paulie’s # is deserving is another story. I think that we can argee that at a minimum, it’s arguable at this point.

  746. Phil is the New "Franchise" April 16th, 2008 at 9:06 pm

    It is messed up that people are booing him over a number. Why don’t we all boo Mo for wearing Jackie’s #?
    http://www.yournewyorksports.com/

  747. Bobsy April 16th, 2008 at 10:55 pm

    Christine,

    Betemit has had an eye problem since March. No word til yesterday and that was from Heymans blog on CNNSI.

    Petes a beat writer and hes more concerned with running Farnsworth out of town and Hawkins uni #.

    Come on

  748. Terry April 16th, 2008 at 11:10 pm

    This franchise was deader than disco before O’Neill showed.

    He’s a warrior and a winner.

    Anyone who bad mouths him is a worthless troll.

  749. BBFan April 16th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    All Bruney bashers, please come clean and applaud his effort. We need him and he is doing good.

    This is great win made possible by the offense and bullpen. Hopefully, offense will keep going.

  750. Anthony April 16th, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    Matthew April 16th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    They didnt boo Hawkins on opening day. They boo’d the Yankees for not retiring O’Neills number.

    It was nothing personal. His getting shelled twice at home
    lead to his being boo’d since.

    ————————————————————–

    The fans are the reason why Morgan Ensberg gave #21 back! He said he didnt like the stuff the fans were saying. Heres a quote from him….

    Morgan Ensberg felt so uncomfortable wearing No. 21 in Spring Training, shocked at the amount of heat he received, that he abandoned his exhibition digits in favor of No. 11.

    “The feedback from the fans was: ‘That’s not your number.’ It was unbelievable,” Ensberg said. “The gist of it was that it was Paulie’s number, and I understood.”

  751. hmmm April 16th, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    wow, O’Neill comes across pretty badly. that’s surprising and disappointing.

    and man, there were some dumb comments in this thread.

  752. Midland TX April 17th, 2008 at 12:18 am

    Pete,

    You have some ignant-ass posters. If this isn’t a plea/justification for a moderated forum, I don’t know what would be.

  753. Mr G April 17th, 2008 at 12:49 am

    As with so many things, it’s one extreme or another when the solution is somewhere in the middle. The fans that booed Hawkins, don’t understand that it really should be a big deal. Whether O’Neill was a fan favorite or not, some fans need to let it go.

    Hawkins doesn’t understand that even if it shouldn’t be a big deal, it actually is to a lot of people. So why push the issue? All of sudden he wants to honor Clemente? What about the rest of his career? Did he honor Clemente in Colorado?

    The Yankees don’t get it, either. Did it take a genius to figure out that this might happen? Someone in the organization couldn’t pull him aside and say, “Latroy, as a new player it might not go over that well that you’ll be the first to where 21 since O’Neill. Just a suggestion.” In fact, it took Jeter and Mo to talk to Latroy about it to get it out in the open.

    And enough with the “Free agents won’t want to come here because Hawkins got booed over his number.” When ARod is nitpicked by fans and media alike, does anyone worry whether future free agents will want to play for the Yanks? In fact, what did ARod do? He came back DESPITE catching grief for 4 years. And if you bring up that money lured him back…DING DING DING. You’re exactly right! Money and the chance to win are the reasons why free agents will continue to consider the Yankees. Anyone that’s put off by booing and not have his “free choice” of numbers will enjoy Pittsburgh.

  754. Derek - RETIRE 21!!! Moose Is The New Chet Stedman!!! April 17th, 2008 at 1:05 am

    Hmmmm,

    i woulda definately loved to see you get into this one haha.

  755. Joe Pepitone April 17th, 2008 at 1:05 am

    So now O’Neill is a bad guy because he doesn’t make public statements asking fans to support Hawkins? It’s not his responsibility. He didn’t ask for this. All he did was play the game and retire. He never lobbied for his number to be retired but he also never volunteered to be put in an uncomfortable situation like being a good will ambassador for Hawkins to the fans. He took the middle ground and didn’t say a single negative thing about Hawkins yet Pete likes to bring up the fact about O’Neill’s temper around the dugout and clubhouse. They’re all big boys on the Yankees and could handle their own problems. They don’t need a bunch of beat writers and fanboys fueling a ridiculous controversy.

  756. Morgan April 17th, 2008 at 2:47 am

    Sorry if people have already said this…

    As someone who has grown up watching and loving the Yankees, I’ve never been more ashamed of Yankees fans. Paul O’Neil was emotional and was great for many seasons but that does not mean we should boo and hate Latroy Hawkins. What Roberto Clemente has done for baseball is about 100 times more than what Paul O’Neil has done. Sure Paul has broken a few bats and been angry, shown emtions and batted .330 but the accomplishments and impact of Roberto Clemente overwhelm Paul both on a baseball and life impact. Don’t get me wrong, I love Paulie and he did good things for the Yanks, but so did lots of Yankees and that doesnt mean their number is retired. You have to do great things to have your number retired as a Yankee. If anything this shows us, Clemente should have number retired by the Yankees and other teams. Obviously he is not Jackie Robinson but his impact on baseball is undeniable.

    The Yankees fans have comitted a great wrong doing by how they have treated Latroy and his number. Great you support Paulie but if Paul is getting his number retited, next thing you know any player on a championship team is getting their number retited…

  757. Dan April 17th, 2008 at 3:51 am

    Do I feel bad that Hawkins got booed? Sure, a little bit. I’m sure it feels bad, and hurts to be booed and name called. But come on, welcome to New York. The fans here care passionately about their favorite team, and their favorite players on those teams (not just the Yankees). If they are upset by something, they are going to let you know. You are a professional athlete, it’s going to happen no matter what number you choose or how well you play (Hello, A-Rod).

    I grew up watching Paul O’Neill play, and he was my favorite player as a kid. I don’t know if he “deserves” to have his number retired. But I would be happy if it was, under these circumstances or any other. If I’m at Yankee Stadium, I’m not going to boo Hawkins or anybody else for wearing the number, but I am going to wish he wasn’t. Nothing personal against Hawkins.

    But, Paul was not any old player on a Championship team. He was an all star player who was the emotional leader of the team. Beyond being a fan favorite, he batted third, a spot often reserved for a team’s best (or second best) hitter. He was NO shlub. When a team wins 4 World Series, and appears in 2 more, a bunch of numbers from that ERA ought to be retired. Look at past championship teams across sports (Yankees, Celtics, Lakers, even the Knicks all have many players from each championship era retired). So in order of deserving numbers to be retired from that era I say…2, 42, 6, 51, 21, maybe 46. Yeah, Paul is 4 or 5 on that list, and maybe doesn’t make the cut, but he’s close enough to be having this conversation.

  758. Breimann April 17th, 2008 at 9:52 am

    Hawkins is notorious for failing in the clutch and he was not a popular signing. Despite his early moderate success as a Yankee, theres a chance he would get boo’d regardless of his number!

  759. Mr G April 17th, 2008 at 10:47 am

    As to the separate issue of whether O’Neill’s number should be retired – sure people can have opinions, but the only opinion that counts is George’s (or Hank’s and/or Hal’s). If they want to retire Bobby Meachum’s number because they feel guilty that Bill Martin destroyed his career, they can do whatever they want.

    I would, however, like to know how many of those that say O’Neill doesn’t deserve it, were at the Stadium for Game 5 of the 2001 WS. How many players, Yankees or otherwise, in recent memory have gotten that kind of a send off? In my book, the ovation and tribute that he got that night says a lot more and counts for a lot more than stats.

  760. Yanksgal07 April 17th, 2008 at 11:33 am

    I NEVER boo any player on my team …heck, I don’t hoo any player on any team (not even BOSTON). I cheer when the opposition makes an out and have a big grin tho’…I was grinning from ear to ear last night at the game :o)…

    As far as O’Neill’s number …Pete didn’t finish Paul’s statement. He was flattered that fans felt that way but he finished saying that he had NO PROBLEM with LaTroy wearing his number. Pete left the last part of the quote off …that’s unfair to Paul.

    Paul was the heart and soul of this team when he played here and I think that’s what the fans appreciate including Mr. Steinbrenner who dubbed him “The Warrior”. With that said there is absolutely no excuse for the fans who boo any player for wearing his number. I remember what he did for this team and I don’t need his number retired to feel the respect and admiration I have for him. He did that by playing 110% every game for his team and the fans. That’s why Paul has the love of so many Yankee fans to this day.

    Go Yankees 2008 !!!

  761. Retire 21 (Alex) April 17th, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    If the Yankees retired Reggie Jackson’s number after only a handful of years, then why not Paul O’Neil?

    I’m not old enough to have seen Reggie play, but the most popular image I see of his legacy is of him hitting 3 homeruns in the World Series.

    I remember O’neil for three great World Series moments as well. First, the catch he made in the 1996 WS to end game 5. That catch ignited the team. Second was in a losing effort to Cleveland in the 1997 Divisional Series. He played hurt and legged out a double (on one good leg) and managed to make a ridiculous slide to keep the game alive. And the third reason, King George loves him.

  762. deadrody April 17th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

    BTW, the ticket for the game at which they retire Paul O’Neil’s number will be the toughest ticket to get in YEARS. You can’t even name me another Yankee who would get the same send off. Maybe Jeter or Mo.

  763. rockindabronx April 19th, 2008 at 12:05 am

    I like O’Neil as much as the next guy, but this was silly and classless. Number 21 shouldnt even be considered for retirement. Yanks need to keep some standards, I still think number 44 should be made available.

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