Game 18: Yankees at Orioles
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 18, 2008 
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YANKEES
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Cano 2B
Giambi 1B
Cabrera CF
Moeller C
Hughes RHP
ORIOLES
Roberts 2B
Mora 3B
Markakis RF
Millar 1B
Scott LF
Huff DH
Jones CF
R. Hernandez C
L. Hernandez SS
Cabrera RHP
Notes: Edwar Ramirez is in the clubhouse. But the Yankees won’t say who is being sent out. I would assume it’s Jon Albaladejo. … Beautiful day here in Baltimore. … The Yankees have homered in five straight games. … Yankee pitching has allowed 16 runs on 27 hits in the last two games and needed 11 innings out of the bullpen.
Here is how Hughes has fared against the Orioles
Here is how Daniel Cabrera has fared against the Yankees
Back later with updates
UPDATE, 6:17 p.m.: Albaladejo was indeed optioned to Scranton. … Ramirez is here because he hasn’t pitched in three days. How do you figure Scott Patterson feels about now? … No word yet on Joba. But he has thrown two sides in Nebraska (one yesterday) and won’t go on any sort of rehab before joining the team again. It sounds like he could be back soon. Understandably, the Yankees aren’t setting any sort of deadline. … Andy Pettitte is back in Texas because of a death in his family. He will return tomorrow and make his start on Sunday.
UPDATE, 7:48 p.m.: Hughes has thrown first-pitch strikes to all nine hitters he has faced. The problem is that he has gone to three-ball counts on four of those hitters and has already thrown 40 pitches. But he’s right around the plate and working at a good pace.
UPDATE, 8:27 p.m.: Shelley Duncan, the Babe Ruth of the International League, has homered and doubled for the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre/Moosic/Lackawanna Yankees. Shelley now has four home runs and 10 RBI in nine games.
Plus I believe that every SWB Yankee has a giant bruise on their forearm.
UPDATE, 9:23 p.m.: Phil Hughes will get tagged with a loss tonight (barring a miracle) and some people will want him out. But there was definite improvement tonight with his fastball command. He threw too many pitches, but he also didn’t much help from his defense.
I remain of the opinion that he will one day be a very, very good starting pitcher. But the Yankees rushed him to the majors last season and they seem OK with the idea of his developing in the big leagues.
That’s fine. Just understand that it’s going to be very difficult for the Yankees to make the playoffs and develop Hughes and Ian Kennedy at the same time. Right now, this is a team with two reliable starters.
No Scott Patterson???? He must be upset.
Can’t wait for this game…usually the Yankees play well after a series against the Sox. Plus, I’ll be at the game tonight! Hopefully Hughes and Cabrera don’t combine for 15 walks in 5 innings.
I think you guys are confused…Scott Patterson is pronounced “Scott Patterson” not “Cy Young”
Giambi has a .700 OBP against Cabrera, with 11 BBs. Wow. I like that Pete posts the links to pitcher/batter matchups now!
Maybe Patterson wasn’t available to pitch tonight, and clearly they need fresh arms in the bp tonight. Just a thought.
Or maybe he hasn’t pitched above AA and Ramirez has ML experience.
Edwar has some experience and I think he’s been doing pretty good so far in AAA. I’d like to see him again.
Or that as soon as Joba’s back someone’s getting sent down.
Yeah, I’m curious to see how Edwar fares in the majors this year. A lot could happen with a young player from season to season.
Only relevent issues today:
1. When is Joba coming back? If its not for another week, then its time to get him ready to start upon his return.
2. Phil Hughes. Need a big performance from him tonight.
3. Giambi and Damon. Yes, its only April. However, both guys have to start showing soon their bats still have life. If not, they are going to have to begin thinking about contingency plans them soon.
Ramirez over Patterson? Ramirez has pitched better than Patterson so far this year. Also, if Joba is a day or two away from returning to the team, this is not going to be a long stay for Ramirez.
They may feel its better to keep Patterson in AAA and have him pitch than riding the Scranton shuttle for such a short stay in NY.
Pete, thanks for posting the B-R links. it’s a nice addition to the game threads.
SJ44,
What do you think of bringing back Shelley as soon as Jorge can get back behind the plate? He’s done all the Yanks could have asked. I’d love to see either Shelley or Ensberg get more time at first, especially against lefties. There is no reason to play Giambi at this point against any left handed pitcher.
we got be careful tonight
D-Cab 24:15 GO/AO in 16.2 IP this season, he has given up 4 HR this season.
but the Baltimore BP Bradford, Albers and Sherrill can be lights out.
I was watching Cabrerra pitch earlier this year for the O’s – He has developed a tick where he ducks to his left after letting the ball go. I don’t remember if he got hit by a line shot or what but he clearly has it in his head.
He is going to walk the park tonight and hit the showers early. I personally guarantee it. (if I turn out wrong, you get your money back)
I definitely think Shelley will be back once the catching situation is straightened out.
Girardi said as much the other day.
I would like to see Shelley or Ensberg start getting some time at first.
Baltimore is starting a lefty in this series. I’m sure Ensberg will be in the lineup for that game.
Girardi is in a tough spot. He has to give Damon and Giambi a chance to get going. He’s doing the same thing with Cano.
When you are young, there is a given patience toward getting going. When you are an older player, its more of a tightrope.
They will both obviously get more time to get going. But, you have to think the leashes on both guys are pretty short.
Let’s hope Yanks get an early lead to help relax hughes a bit. His fast ball should be good tonight as it is warm! here’s hoping!
Um…
Edwar Ramirez:
7IP 2H 0R 1BB 11K 0.00 ERA
Scott Patterson:
5.2 4H 2R 3BB 4K 3.18 ERA
http://scrantonwilkesbarre.yan.....8;sid=t531
Can anyone compute Mussina’s stats without Manny Ramirez’ AB’s included, versus with? Manny has 3 HR’s & a 2-run double in his last 4 AB’s against Moose. Ouch.
I wonder if Jeter could play left? Then put Gonzo at SS. Oh and of course my daily call for Ensberg at first. Free Morgan Ensberg!
Trying this on for size
Forget Ensberg. Someone free Shelley from AAA so he can split time between left and first base, and rid us the sight of both Giambi and Damon.
0.43 WHIP ? he couldn’t have gotten that better
What on earth did Albaladjeo do wrong to be sent down? Sheesh.
He threw 48 pitches yesterday and will be unavailable for the next couple of days.
They need a fresh arm and its a natural thing to send down the guy who is unavailable to pitch for the next couple of days.
SJ – if that’s really you, are you suggesting Joba should be considered for Mussina’s slot in the rotation? If not, whose?
Betsy -he threw 50 pitches last night and is unavailable today; that’s why he may be sent down.
I’m glad they are giving Edwar another shot. Looks like he’s been up to his usual tricks down on the farm. He’s always had insane K/9 BB/9 numbers with good ERA and WHIP in the minors, but they never surfaced in the show. Hopefully he gets it together this time around.
Has Edwar suddenly developed a pitch to successfully complement his change at the big league level, or is this just a weekend stint ’til Joba gets back?
6 man rotation ANSKY, that’s what I suggested on a previous thread. Got shot down, but I think it could work.
ANSKY,
Yes. I think its time to put Joba in the rotation and have him take Moose’s spot. Its time.
It would take 2 weeks this early in the season to stretch him out and get him ready to start.
IMO, now is the best time to do it. They can find somebody to pitch 8th innings. Its tough to find a starter with the arm of Joba’s.
Might as well do it now.
I’m a big fan of Edwar, so I’m happy. I just hope he makes the best of his call-up this time, and doesn’t get so emotional and nervous.
Chad Jennings on SWB blog states that it is Alby.
Edwar’s SWB record: No record or saves. Six Games. 7 IP, 0 R, 2 Hits, 1 walk and 11 Ks.
Jay: Shelley has to be down at least 10 days. I forget what day he was sent down, but he has to be down at least 10 days before he is recalled.
My guess is that once Jorge is ok to catch and the 10 days are up, Duncan will come up and Moeller goes down. No offense to Moeller, but hopefully that is in a few days.
Edwar’s problem really isn’t his stuff, it’s his control and command, he threw fastballs down the plate in the majors. As long as he can locate his fastball then it’s enough with his ridiculous changeup. He definitely deserves more than one chance.
I think tomorrow or Sunday is the first day Shelley can officially be brought back up.
I read the post above that stated the Yanks play well after the a Sox series. I do not have firm stats however it seems the Red Sox play very poorly after a Yanks series. Those games are always long and draining and usually deplete the bullpens. Hats off to the Yanks if that is the case . The sox seem to sleep walk for two games after a “rivalry” series.
Huge fan of Big Papal.
-dennis
I’d called Albaladejo going down last night on River Ave. Blues, but I thought it’d be for Patterson….
Isiah fired.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Edwar huh? Interesting. I guess Girardi wants a fresh arm to absorb some of the work tonight if Hughes falters. Not a bad idea at all, I think Edwar’s been doing well this year.
I hope tomorrow Posada actually gets back to catching. Chad Moeller has been doing enough to get the job done, but I can’t see him hitting well for very long. His history doesn’t support the thought that he will.
Dennis-Costanza
i don’t have facts to back it up either but going on recent history, the Sox rung off a couple consecutive wins after the Yanks series at Fenway.
Isiah Thomas gets promoted and I’m suppose to be happy , I’m going to talk a walk, later people.
SJ-
Love the idea of slotting Joba into the rotation now. Who do you think takes over as the 8th inning go to guy? LaTroy or Ohlendorf? or do they just split the role for now?
I’m going out for a walk *
SJ –
As I start to write this, it seems your friend Anti isn’t reading yet today.
Would Moose be willing to be moved to that mythical ‘long man’ position and eat innings there?
Could he be converted to a late inning guy although obviously not a closer? Would he have enough gas to reach 90 with his fastball if its for one inning, or is 87-88 all he’s got left now?
SJ:
Regarding the A-Rod, Canseco, Dion piece in Sports Illustrated today, I figured I would go to someone how would know the answer.
I’m not surprised that A-Rod recalls being introduced to Dion by someone other than Canseco, but, given your familiarity with Miami and the pro baseball community there, is it possible that A-Rod was genuinely unaware that Dion knew Canseco?
Brian.
Good Point. I guess it is my impression over the last few seasons. The teams and the build up seem to be exhausting. However, maybe it is just me that is exhausted!!
Have a good weekend.
-dennis
I doubt that Mussina will go quietly to the bullpen. I have no way of knowing but I would imagine that he still wants to add to his win totals to give him an (outside) shot at getting into the HOF. I think its more likely that he would accept a trade where he could start somewhere than take on a long reliever role… unless he felt it was temporary. But we are getting way ahead of ourselves.
So when Phyllis pitches like garbage AGAIN, will it be because it was too warm?
If Damon doesn’t start being productive as a lead-off guy soon the Yanks got to find someone who can.
A good leadoff guy makes the #2 hitter better and gives team more of chance to score and score early.
Maybe put Jeter in leadoff spot and move up Abreu to #2?
Bottom line – we need the table setters.
Brandon – two weeks ago Isiah was team president and head coach. Now he reports to the team president and is not the head couch. What promotion are you referring to?
Part of the answer to the bullpen problems — David Robertson, who has dominated at every level so far he’s been in the minors. I never see him mentioned. He’s at AA, and pitching extremely well.
I’m sure I’ll hear he doesn’t have plus-plus stuff, but it sure as hell has to beat the ham and eggers we have in the bullpen now.
Unfortunately – taking Joba out of the “Set UP” man in the 8th inning means that there’s risk of going to Mo in the 8th with 1 or 2 outs and therefore over using him.
Watch out 60 Minutes – ESPN is on the case.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3351418
This is pretty bad
“If Damon doesn’t start being productive as a lead-off guy soon the Yanks got to find someone who can.”
*cough*melkycabrera*cough*
“Unfortunately – taking Joba out of the “Set UP†man in the 8th inning”
It also probably means more quality starts that expose the middle relief less. Would you rather have Joba out there to keep a 7-5 game close in the 8th, or have him bringing a 7-3 game to Ohlendorf in the 8th?
There’s no way Robertson can make the jump from AA to MLB. Not only that, but there are a number of arms who deserve a shot in AAA first.
hughes needs to pitch to contact tonight and keep his pitch count down oer inning. if they beat him they beat him, but he can’t be nibbling away with the pitch count mounting while trying to trick hitters being afraid to trust his stuff like he’s some aging veteran who used to be good. not that that reminds me of anyone.
hughes obviously has some talent or he wouldn’t be up with the yankees so young. he needs to trust that and use a third pitch besides just the fastball and curve. it seems like that’s all he’s throwing. if he doesn’t get the third pitch going , he’s going to have to drop back down to scranton to refine it there.
he doesn’t need to be great-5-6 innings, 4 runs would be a step in the right direction.
I would hazard to guess that Giambi is on a shorter leash than Damon…only because of their respective defensive values.
“*cough*melkycabrera*cough*”
You should see a doctor about that cough – sounds bad!
The real test of Girardi as a manager is not in the game decisions…he’ll be fine there. The real test is how he handles the veterans as their skills start to erode. Will he be able to handle their egos and massage the line-ups to always do what is best for the team, regardless of friendships. I certainly think he is capable, but we’ll see. He had a very young team down in Miami.
“So when Phyllis pitches like garbage AGAIN, will it be because it was too warm?”
no it’ll because the red sox came into town and his laptop is missing.
how’s that investigation going on with the nypd and steroids?
ignore the troll
#9 Funny!
I like whozat’s thought of Melky leading off.
sorry boston dave-
it’s just so easy sometimes.
Cabrera has no control but I still remember that game where he dominated us — wasn’t it almost a no hitter?
Lets go Yankees
ITS GONNA BE HOT DOWN THERE TONITE!
“how’s that investigation going on with the nypd and steroids?”
– Good, I hear Andy and his dad are key witnesses.
I’m sorry guys. I write comments on the blog because I have no real friends.
So when I root for the Red Sox, will be because I’m too g-a-y?
#9 –
Indirectly I think the bullpen could benefit from Joba starting.
If Joba goes to the rotation soon (May/June?) then soon after there might not be as much of a need to go to the bullpen (as early as w/Moose) every 5th day, so the rest of the bullpen could be better used.
Maybe not immediately, but after he gets in his groove as starter and really lets it fly over 7-8 innings that would be the case.
At least, that’s one possible way of looking at it.
Pete, I just got home for a long week at work and would LOVE to be able to watch the ballgame and blog with fellow Yankee fans in peace. Any chance you can block the IP addresses of some of these trolls?
HAHAHAHAHHAHAH!
Yankee fans getting pissed and now poting under my screen name. No prob little girl, Pete’s been notified.
“If Joba goes to the rotation soon (May/June?) then soon after there might not be as much of a need to go to the bullpen (as early as w/Moose) every 5th day, so the rest of the bullpen could be better used.
Maybe not immediately, but after he gets in his groove as starter and really lets it fly over 7-8 innings that would be the case. ”
Even if he doesn’t go as deep, Joba would probably allow fewer runs in his 6 innings. Thus, the lesser bullpen guys could potentially eat more innings in games thrown by Joba over games thrown by Moose.
edit…from a long week…
Canseco is a liar.
Exclusive: The man behind the Max
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
“Canseco is a liar.
Exclusive: The man behind the Max”
– So this guy is telling the truth while MaNamee was a liar? Funny how that works, huh?
NYPD-
How about some real baseball discussion instead of the usual insults & bigotry?
Are you really that unhappy with your life that you post here to start fights & put down people? Does it really make you feel better about yourself?
Enough of the “we attack you crap” either, all you do is antagonize people.
Uh no, most rational people believed McNamee was more truthful than Roger. Onl defender he has is extortionist Jose Canseco.
“Enough of the “we attack you crap†either, all you do is antagonize people.”
- Attack? That’s fine, get as personal as you want, that really doesn’t bother me. But people posting under my name?
Whozat – The thinking of the people saying Joba shouldn’t be just a set up guy is that more innings from him is better. I’m on board with that.
Of course he’s incredible in relief, so some people find it hard to imagine that he could be good enough as a starter to outweigh even what he does as a reliever.
Will he give up more runs as a starter? Sure. He’ll pitch at least 3 times as many innings, and batters will face him at least 3 times a game instead of once.
Will he give up more runs as a starter than Moose as a starter? Of course he’ll get knocked around occasionally, but overall … NO.
Sorry, but count me in with Goose Gossage. Having Joba in the pen is like having 2 closers. Yanks lead after 7? … Game over!
Joba can help the Yanks win 5 nights a week if he’s in the pen. He only helps them once every 5th day as a starter. And in 3 years when Mo’s contract is over..or sooner if God forbid Mo gets hurt, the closer’s role is already set.
The kid is made to finish games. I totally understand the temptation to make him a starter. All you have to do is observe how the Yankee’s won from ’96 to 2000 to see the importance of a shortened game.
“The kid is made to finish games.”
Do you think that Josh Beckett and Justin Verlander would be more valuable to their teams as setup men, or as starters?
If you look at how the Yankees won from ’96 to ’00…they had starting pitching to get to the 7th with the lead.
And Joba doesn’t pitch 5 nights/week in the pen.
“- Attack? That’s fine, get as personal as you want, that really doesn’t bother me. But people posting under my name?”
How right you are. It’s absolutely unacceptable.
The last thing anyone here would tolerate would be someone pretending to be you, 113, and posting something scandalous or insulting or demeaning or sarcastic and condescending. Why, that would ruin your rep around these here parts as a thoughtful and considerate member of the loyal opposition. And that we would never stand for.
Remember Mo in the 2002 playoff series against Anaheim? Neither do I because the starting pitching couldn’t get deep into the games. Mo wasn’t used.
Don’t waste Joba’s talent.
Seriously, it’s one thing to compare a closer to a starter, but not a setup man to a starter. Mo is looking more dominant than ever. How bout letting him pitch like a man in the prime of his career, ie let’s stop babying Mariano and let him pinch multiple innings sometimes. That solves the 8th issue half the time.
the yankees are starting add a bit of scrappiness to their game. it was surprising to see them come back so quickly after the red sox scored 6 runs the other night to take back the lead and cruise to the 15-9 win.
and last night when they could have just called it a night , they put a scare into papelbon scoring two runs off him in his one inning.
even jeter came out saying it doesn’t hurt when the ball misses. that’s a little edgy for jeter.
girardi’s personality does seem like it’s coming into the team.
Thanks murph!
Appreciate the backup bro.
Drive 4-5
Joba could only help the team out of the pen five nights a week if five nights a week the team played the first 7 innings like a team on pace for a .700+ win percentage, and the games they were leading or tied in the 8th were always games he was available for.
Even if that DID happen, his arm would soon fall off because 5 nights a week would give him over 110 innings as a reliever for the season. That’s just unheard of.
“The kid is made to finish games.â€
The idea is that Joba should soon be able to do that as a starter as often as anyone else who starts.
Randy, I liked that Derek comment too. I don’t know if I’ll credit Girardi for that, he would probably say, he hasn’t seen the tape of it yet.
Why would you want Joba starting in the rotation? We need someone in the bullpen. Especially, when hes electric, like Joba. People are slamming on Moose because of his not so good outings against Boston? Hahahah oh wow, 1 player makes ypu have a negative opinion of Moose? Give him a break. Manny is on a tear this season. Moose is just his latest victim. Without facing Manny, Moose’s numbers are pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. Hughes got murdered against Boston, are people attacking him? NO, there not. Honestly, if it wasnt for Manny, we’ll be praising Moose right now. Get over it. Joba should and hopefully will stay in the bullpen and Moose will stay in the rotation. Instead of killing Chamberlains stamina and innings pitched, let him be. Use him as the set up man. No one can hit him. He’ll be better of there. His last start, may I remind you was in Trenton. Where in 40.1 innings, let up 15 runs on 32 hits and 15 walks. Yes him ERA was 3.03. But still, thats not that great. He is much better in the bullpen. He didnt fare so great in AA while starting, now hes been lights out in the MLB and AAA while in the ‘pen. LEAVE MOOSE IN THE ROTATION AND JOBA IN THE ‘PEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Murph,
Its possible. Arod and Canseco haven’t traveled in the same social/professional circles in close to 15 years.
If Dion works with Arod, he would know not to mention Canseco.
There is real bitterness between the two. Mainly because Canseco believes he “mentored Arod” (which is crap….. Rich Hoffman, his HS coach, has done been more of a mentor to Arod than just about any baseball figure in his life) and he feels Arod “owes” him.
Arod doesn’t want anything to do with Canseco, and its been that way for years, and that ticks Canseco off to no end.
Arod is one of about 5,000 people in South Florida whom Canseco has a blood feud going with at this time.
He’s basically viewed as a comicbook figure down here and he is resentful Arod is viewed with such high regard.
In other words, Arod has the respect of the community Canseco feels he should have. He in essence, accuses Arod of stealing his community identity.
Its kind of a neighborhood dispute gone wild.
That’s why he has gone so far off the deep end with all this stuff.
Arod is a complex guy. He’s socially awkward and can be very nerdy and moody at times.
But, Canseco is just plain nuts! lol
Having a nephew from Miami who is now playing college baseball at a very high (as in possible high draft pick next year) level, I’ve been around the baseball scene for a lot of years now.
FWIW, I’ve never heard any legitmate source link Arod with PED usage. Not a single one.
Just in what I know and observe about the guy, I don’t believe he used PED’s. I really don’t.
I’m not blind to this stuff. I know a lot of people in the game. Guys who were not in the Mitchell Report that I know were heavy users of PED’s.
I just don’t see Arod as a user. It doesn’t fit his profile or his scene.
I also think in the society we now live in, if Arod was a PED user, he would have gotten exposed by now.
Somebody would have dropped a dime on him. There is no way that would not happen. Especially in Miami, IMO.
Free Morgan -
“Mo is looking more dominant than ever. How bout letting him pitch like a man in the prime of his career, ie let’s stop babying Mariano and let him pinch multiple innings sometimes. That solves the 8th issue half the time.”
I think I recall a few years ago that Mo wasn’t as effective when he came in for more than one inning so many times. Sometimes he can be counted on for 4-5 outs, but he seemed to lose his edge if he did it more than once in a great while. I think he needs to pace himself.
whozat-Its a total different situation. They were bought up as starters. Joba was called up too AAA then MLB as a reliever. So was Papelbon, may I remind you, a former starter. You see how good he is in the bullpen? The Red Sox actually were right to let him go back into the bullpen, hate to say it though. Joba is in the same boat that Papelbon was. The Yankees should use that route with Chamberlain. Hes more valuable in the bullpen.
All you have to do is observe how the Yankee’s won from ‘96 to 2000 to see the importance of a shortened game.
You’re wrong about that. The Mo/Wetteland duo was a one year experiment. They let Wetteland walk and made Mo the closer in ’97.
The Yanks then focused on starting pitching and built a stable of horses by acquiring Wells in ’97, El Duque in ’98, and Clemens in ’99 (via the Wells trade).
It was starting pitching (and Mo to shut it down) that was the driving force behind the Yankee championships from ’98 – ’00.
SJ:
Not Arod’s profile??? What do we know about that? Nothing anybody has seen suggest Arod is so high character a guy that he’s above that (if we want to believe he’s high character at all) As for “if he were a PED user, he be exposed by now” theory, you know as well as anyone the unexposed quite likely outnumber the exposed tenfold.
That said, as minimal as Arod’s credibility is, Canseco’s is waaaaaaay less. I don’t believe Canseco’s tale for a second, but there is nobody who played in the steroid/PED era who is above suspicion.
The Joba as a reliever vs. starter argument is played out.
Rubin – Think about it this way just for a moment:
If Joba were to start and churned out a not-so-great ERA of 3.03, that would be about 0.70 better than the Yanks best starter the last two seasons.
Is 3.03 as great as Bob Gibson in ’68? Pedro in ’98? No, of course not. Is it better than everything we’ve had in the rotation for several years not just the last two? Yep.
“It was starting pitching (and Mo to shut it down) that was the driving force behind the Yankee championships from ‘98 – ‘00.”
Nelson and Stanton has a little to say about things back then too. The Yanks generally got outstanding 7th thru 9th inning releif work even after the Mo/Wettleland days.
Oops!
had > has
Joba has been a starter his entire life. He had two relief appearances before being called up. He wasn’t called up as a reliever, as in being a trained relief pitcher.
The kid has #1 starter stuff. Its a waste to have him in the 8th inning when your starters can’t pitch more than 4 innings.
Its interesting that he has thrown a couple of side sessions in Nebraska. That’s great stuff.
If he is coming back directly to the team, it means he is going back to the bullpen for now.
If I’m Alan Horne, I am rehabbing my butt off right now.
If he gets healthy quickly, he may be a guy viewed as an option next month if Moose struggles.
Sounds like they are keeping Joba in the ‘pen for now. Which means, pitchers in Scranton are now auditioning for a spot in the Yankee rotation.
I don’t think the debate is Joba starting vs. setting up, it is should we transition him to a starter now or in two months. I think Mussina has answered that question for us.
I’ve known Arod for a number of years. I also know people who have known him his entire life. Let’s just say I would be very, very surprised if he was using PED’s.
It doesn’t fit what I have seen/observed about the way he lives his life.
All I’m saying is, based on what I have seen and know, it would be shocking to me if he was exposed as a PED user.
That’s just me. I could be wrong.
Are they still keeping a 130-140 inning season cap on Joba, and planning to start him in the 2nd half?
Another bad night for Hughes await. Pray for the best, fellow Yankee fans.
“Sounds like they are keeping Joba in the ‘pen for now. Which means, pitchers in Scranton are now auditioning for a spot in the Yankee rotation.”
Wonder if Igawa gets the 1st look. 1) Because he’s pitched very well at SWB and 2) Might offer the organization a little return on their investment.
ISAIAH DONE AS COACH OF THE KNICKS
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/.....id=3353483
Hasn’t Igawa consistently shown that the success he’s had in the minors doesn’t translate to the majors?
SJ:
Fair enough. You have insight many others don’t. I don’t see him as a bad guy, but I don’t see Pettitte as one either and he was a PED user. I just think anyone who played in era, either because of use or tacit approval of others using, is culpable.
Rebecca:
I’d guess Isiah’s handprints will be all over the on the floor product for years to come. Poor Donnie Walsh inherits a putrid roster complete with salary cap hell.
Fredo.
Good post. I would bet that Igawa would get the first look as it is April and that ROCE will be the largest contributing factor.
-dennis
Nelson and Stanton has a little to say about things back then too. The Yanks generally got outstanding 7th thru 9th inning releif work even after the Mo/Wettleland days.
Nelson and Stanton were solid relievers, but they certainly weren’t dominant by any means.
I should remind you how many times Mo had to pitch 2 inning saves in those days. It was a common occurrence.
Secondly, when the starting pitching eats 6-7 IP more often that not – the bullpen is the greatest beneficiary because of the lack of exposure.
It’s not a coincidence that the Yanks are 8-0 on the season is games in which the starter has thrown 6 IP.
“the debate is … should we transition him to a starter now or in two months.”
If we start Joba soon, how do we make sure he has innings left for October?
Actually, same question for Phil Hughes: what’s the plan to make sure he’s available and strong for the playoffs?
“Hasn’t Igawa consistently shown that the success he’s had in the minors doesn’t translate to the majors?”
No more so than Rasner, Karstens, Chase Wright and Edwar Ramirez have.
Leaving Igawa in AAA does nothing towards getting any sort of ROI. He’s probably going to be brought up at some time just to showcase him in the hope that they can generate some interest in him from other teams. Otherwise they may as well send him back to Japan with his money.
HGH is a little different than taking steroids.
This is where the PED debate needs a little context.
Pettitte is rehabbing an injury and is looking to get back on the field.
To a lot of athletes the past several years, HGH has been hailed as a “wonder drug” for its healing (or supposed) powers.
Its how it got its foothold in the market.
Arod has never been hurt. IIRC, He’s never even had a surgery in his life.
Its just my personal observations on the issue. Doesn’t mean I’m right.
Certain guys, you just know were using PED’s. Guys who were bragging about it, training with trainers who were known dealers, etc. Arod? I would be as shocked of him being id’ed as a user as much as I would if Jeter was exposed as a user.
Yazman: Philosophy is get to the playoffs first, then worry about what to do then.
Thomas and Dolan ruined a great, proud franchise.
sj -
since hughes is going to be pitching in about 20 minutes, what’s your take on his third pitch. i’ll be the first to admit i still don’t know much about him. you’ve watched him for a long time, surely he didn’t get to this point by having just two plus two pitches.
he’s been getting a lot of criticism in boston papers as being a two pitch pitcher where buchholz has command of three and that’s the difference between the two. i personally would like hughes to focus on getting innings in rather than worry about every run he gives up.
Nothing would completely surprise me with PED users, abusers, or one-time users.
There are probably guys who partook who you would suspect, guys who are obvious, guys you would swear wouldn’t have done anything and still other guys who you’d never even considered.
Still, even if you suspect any ‘good guys’ it would be a shame if the likes of A-Rod or David Ortiz were legitimately uncovered as even one time users. They’re both guys I would not suspect although Ortiz did have a huge leap in performance when he came to Boston. That doesn’t mean I think he did PEDs, just that I’d be less surprised if it turned out that way.
Pettitte I still don’t classify with McGwire, Canseco, Bonds et al. Yes it’s a shame he dabbled for whatever reason, but a guy that smokes a couple joints in his entire life (although that’s illegal) isn’t exactly the same as a heroin or crack addict, or a drug pusher. The legal system has different penalties for different degrees of violating the law.
This ends my PED thinking. Play ball.
Did you see NYPD113th posting again ??? ….hey everybody, our favorite punching bag is back !…wa-hoooo !!
Anti –
That was very civil of you. Welcome to a civilized discussion. That was easy, wasn’t it?
I don’t know Randy. Buchholz has pitched in 3 games and got lit up in two them.
Doesn’t sound like he has command of 3 pitches does it? lol
Seriously, Hughes’ curveball is an absolute hammer. The two seam and four fastballs are great pitches for him when he stays back on the rubber and does’t rush his delivery.
His changeup? Not there yet but, its getting better. The changeup is usually a good pitch for him when his mechanics are tight. When they aren’t, he can’t control the pitch.
I have heard that he is throwing his slider again. He used to have a good one and they had him stop throwing it a few years ago.
I don’t know if he has unveiled it in games yet.
If his 2 seam and 4 seam fastballs are on, he will get outs and go deeper in games. Mainly because, his curveball is such a hammer, when its on, its unhittable.
He just can’t fall in love with it too much and overthrow it.
Hughes is close to figuring it out. I do agree with you with regard to him pitching to contact early in the game.
He has to trust his stuff and his defense. If he can get through the first two innings without the pitch count going haywire, he will be fine.
One other thing. He has always been a slow starter. He was in the minors.
That’s why I’m not worried about him. He has too much talent to struggle this much. He, like all young pitchers, just have to realize that you don’t have to do too much at this level to get guys out. Just do what you have been successful at doing to date and its enough.
Markakis. Huff, Ramon Hernandez, and Millar are generally in the mix of damaging Yankee pitching.
Hopefully Hughes can give the Yanks at least 6 solid innings. 7 would be preferable.
Yes, Don Vito, NYPD ended his own secret romance with a toilet plunger and has come out for the season to ride his seatless Red Sox bicycle.
OK enough fun for me tonight, I have to drive home now. Everyone (except the trolls) have a great weekend.
Let’s go Yankees!
sweet. game is on MASN via MLB.TV. i’ve gotten like 3 games on YES all year. as much as people criticize Michael Kay, i’d love to hear him over some of these opposing broadcasters. some of them are just soo bad, and if i remember correctly the MASN broadcast is usually pretty bad. I must say, NESN are probably the least biased road broadcasters to the Yankees..they compliment the Yankees more than anyone else. weird.
Game on!!!
Yeah, after some of the horrible broadcasts we’ve been forced to listen to on MLB.tv, we deserve to have YES once in a while.
sj-
so going primarily with 2 seam and four seam fastballs he ‘s got to locate well and then use the curve ball. got it. thanks for the scouting report. now we’ll see if he can get through the 5th or 6th inning. he’s probably giving major league hitters too much credit and trying to be too fine.
it seems MLB.TV tends to show the home team’s broadcast, and obviously since they’ve been on the road so much that’s why we never get the YES broadcasts.
Good hustle by Bobby
They called that an error? What a moron.
nice hustle by Bobby. gary thorne says “we’ll see what the call it.” why would it be an error?…
why the hell is that an error…he fielded and got rid of it…and bobby beat the throw by a lot…what?
Yeah, true…at least that means we’ll eventually get a nice string of YES broadcasts
Gary Thorne and Jim Palmer do the O’s games.
One of the better broadcast duos of all the Yankee opponents.
I don’t mind the Mariners broadcast team too much. They’re some of the better ones as well. It’s too bad the Yanks don’t play the NL more often. They’ve got some good tandems.
I wonder when A Rod’s wife is having the baby. I see it happenning on Monday, the off day. Let Gonzo start Tues and A Rod missing one game. How cool would that be?
Jeff- That would be perfect. I’m sure that is what Alex is hoping for too.
one pitch one out. doesn’t get any better than that.
that would be nice jeff
Or his wife could have it on Sunday night and then the off day on Monday…that’d be great as well.
“I don’t know Randy. Buchholz has pitched in 3 games and got lit up in two them.”
Saw his start in Toronto and “got lit up” just doesn’t fit. He got effed over by some bad defense by Casey, but he was pitching pretty well. Fanned 7 or 8 in 5 IP and allowed 3 ER and probably should have gotten out of it with only 1 run allowed. Jays didn’t hit him any harder than the Yanks did in that Wang complete game at Fenway.
His pitches are moving a lot better tonight. Hopefully that translates into a solid performance on the mound.
Phil’s fastball is missing badly. i hope he gets a hold of it soon.
Nice first inning by Hughes.
Albaladejo did nothing wrong to be sent down. He’ll be back and strongly heard from during the season. Reports likely say that Edwar is the best short term callup until Joba is back.
This team is still in a “feel out” mode and will be until the starting staff shows itself in the 3-4-5 spots.
The hitting is coming around and it’s only a matter of short time before 3-5 bats will be hot at once.
The month of May will make Yankee fans forget about April in short order.
Nice easy inning for HUUUUGGGHHHHES
Good inning for Phil. Let’s get him some runs to work with.
I bet the players are loving a weekend in Baltimore with great weather, great ballpark and mediocre club to play. They can tear down Yankee Stadium, but please don’t ever tear down Camden Yards, Yankee Stadium South.
nice results, fairly quick inning. just needs to get ahead of hitters.
Good job Phil.
Let’s get him some runs
Nice to see that go well for Hughes.
Cano and Dan Cabrera gre up together. Cano usually heats up against him.
Some comic relief for everyone:
http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....image.html
Hughes first inning:
Balls:7
Strikes: 6
Pitches: 13
Fastballs: 11
Curves: 1
Changeups: 1
grew not gre
why the fuc3 is Abreau playing today against a left-hander
Yankee Stadium South, heh.
The Sox fans call it Fenway South, as well. That has to suck for Orioles fans, whenever the Yanks and Red Sox are in town, they’re evenly matched or outnumbered by opposing fans. i had the pleasure of going to Camden Yards last year…beautiful, beautiful park. the concourse on the club level was more like a 5 star hotel than a ballpark. it was the end of the year and the O’s were out of it so it was about a 3:1 ratio Yanks Fans:O’s fans. There was a long line at a concession stand and some O’s fan whined “it’s all these idiot Yankees fans here making the lines so long.” so i said “yeah, god forbid people actually come to the games and your team pulls in some decent revenue.”
if were going to mention bad announcers we need to some how get rid of the White Sox guys, I know I only have to listen to them like 6 times a year but its enough to want to get rid of them…. If you don’t agree then BE GONE…. I’m gonna go hang myself for saying that now lol
Good AB by Robbie.
What’s Pena holdilng in his hand? Timer?
Tough luck.
1. Is it typical for Arod to fail to capitalize on a good percentage of RISP opportunities in the course of a season?
2. Isn’t the cleanup position set up for the opposite?
3. If yes to both, then any guesses at WTF gives with regard to #1?
Robbie. This is not what you do.
That was really bad timing.
How does Scott Patterson feel? How about Chris Britton? He has better numbers!
Tough break.
Edwar over Patterson primarily because he’s on the 40 man roster…….plus I think he deserves another shot under Girardi, his potential for dominance is still high.
Ack, didn’t need the DP.
not what you do? you mean hit it on the screws? not his fault it was right at the SS.
That sucked
Alvaro – read upwards and you’ll see why.
the O’s broadcasters aren’t too bad, the only thing that bugs me is how exasperated Palmer can get when the O’s don’t get a ball or strike call on a borderline pitch. it’s unprofessional.
SJ’s point is well taken – HGH isn’t viewed by players as a PED, but as a healing agent. It’s the general public, baseball administration, and sloppy reporting that mixes the 2.
And there are legitimate studies that suggest the performance enhancing effects of steroids isn’t all that measurable in baseball.
See steroids-and-baseball.com for an alternative view to the typical knee jerk assumptions. Warning – lots to read there for those limited to 2 sentences per reading dose.
They are a muscle mass building drug in a sport that demands much less of that. That’s why “focus” enhancing drugs such as ritalin for ADD treatment is exploding legally in baseball, and MLB is doing nothing to check it. MLB approved use of it has gone throught the roof. Once again baseball swings and misses.
that 2nd pitch changeup to Scott was nasty. nice pitch Phil.
Anyone here ever have the opportunity to see Jim Palmer pitch??? Hughes curve reminds me a lot of the one Palmer threw in his day.
Oh yeah-Go Rangers!
Hughes 6 for 6 on 1st pitch strikes
curve* not changeup.
anyone know of a good “gameday” like thing or live updating play-by-play for hockey games?
Girardi said on the radio pre-game show that Edwar is up because he has not pitched in 3 days and he is well rested and ready to go.
I am trying to pack for TWO DAYS! and am taking WAYYY to much.
Jennifer – have a great time. Hope you see Yankee wins.
C’mon Phil. You’ve got to be more economical!
Guys… does Phil throw the slider.. i know they shut it down in the minors after some shoulder issues, but has he shelved it forever..
Hughes looks good tonight, but once again, his out pitch selection is just no good. He’s trying to fool them on low curves, and they arent biting, and if something does work, he’s guaranteed to try that again.
Also, Hughes is a strikeout pitcher, and they tend to be less economical, so don’t expect a 90 pitch 7 inning performance
40 pitches through 2.
Thanks Fran. Hopes so too. I get to see Ian pitch for the first time, and Andy for the ? time.
At least the O’s didn’t do any damage
9 for 9 on 1st pitch strikes, but that was a lot of pitches that inning. Still, better than the 10 pitches for every out he authored his last two starts.
So according to O’s broadcast, Posada can’t go tomorrow. In retrospect, we should have DL’ed him and kept Shelly. Posada isn’t swinging great, and because of the need to get him in as a DH, Matsui has to take unnecessary day-offs and Damon can’t get going. It’s a rough stretch.
Hmm, a hit or two here would be nice.
Great news Bobby will be back for the Seattle game at home
the ump just called that low inside fastball that’s been a ball for Hughes all night a strike on melky. ok.
Wow, great news about Bobby Murcer
May 2nd.
Great working the count boys 5 pitches!!
5 pitches guys? That’s all this prolific offense has in them? Jeez, at least give phil a few minutes to catch his breath.
That was too quick of an inning for Cabrera.
patience guys, jesus. it’s daniel cabrera, the dude is notorious for poor control and walking a lot of guys but they’re swinging early and often.
Ok, so what the hell with this offense. I can’t believe that the Yankees struggle against poor pitching. Cabrera is not that good.
This is getting really old, fast.
Posada’s not swinging the bat well? What?
On a different note… The Franchise just looks sick!!!!!
I’m at the game! Woooooo!
That was too quick..
be good Phil
Well, it’s not hurting so far, but he’s got to get down in the zone.
Pepper Brooks
Do not be critical of the Yankees, not Mussina or anyone else. If you are, then you will be attacked and labelled a troll, also His Holiness Pope SJ44 will excommunicate you and call upon the God of the Blog (Pete) to banish you.
Not that I’m panicking or anything, but can we bring Shelley up?
Or at least play Ensberg more?
Wow. It wouldn’t be as bad if he could hit.
Hughes really hasn’t pitched well, but the defense behind him has been awful.
Until Giambi starts hitting, there’s no reason to play him over Ensberg everyday.
better inning for Phil too bad Giambi didn’t field that ball.
for those who are interested, 3 goals in 2 minutes in the Rangers-Devils game 2-1 Rangers.
Ugh, Giambi should have had that.
I might hate the Rangers more than the Red Sox right now.
Actually, I do.
Even though Hughes got out of that inning, it just shows you how important defense is to a pitcher. Hughes had to throw another 5 pitches, and if Millar had even tapped a single, the O’s would be up a run and Hughes would have to labor against another batter.
I’d like the Yanks to play Ensberg a bit more. At least the error didn’t hurt Hughes this time around.
the Rangers are playing so well, we should probably get a couple of them to hit in the Yanks lineup when they’re finished their season (which hopefully isn’t for several weeks.)
wake up bats
nice bobby..
am i just biased or does it seem like the strikezone expands in all directions for Cabrera?
nice hit bobby. keep up the trend Alex.
A double would do, A-Rod.
“I wonder when A Rod’s wife is having the baby. I see it happenning on Monday, the off day. Let Gonzo start Tues and A Rod missing one game. How cool would that be?”
Hey Jeff, that would be your boy Ensberg playing third, no?
Happy 25th birthday to Alberto Gonzalez!!!
wow, this offense is iffy
not what i had in mind Alex but at least it wasn’t a DP.
You learn something new every day:
Don’t run on Nick Markakis.
Meachem, calm down a bit.
They said Bobby is limping off the field.
O’s are much better team fundamentally than the yanks. Great throw by markakis and block of the plate.
neato.
was he really out at the plate ?
If Bobby’s hurt, it’s just another reason why we need Shelley.
Well Mendoza of the Rangers woke Ortiz up. He just hit a grand slam.
Yeah he was out.
Holy crap, even the O’s announcers said he was safe.
Why do MLB umpires suck so badly?
duffy: one play is all it takes for you to draw that conclusion?
Sorry Duffy, but he didn’t actually block the plate and replays show that Bobby was safe.
Nice try with the hate though.
Markakis does have a gun though.
It wasn’t a bad move by Meacham to send Abreu. Two outs with slumping hitters due up. Markakis isn’t known for a great arm, so you force the O’s to make a play…and they did.
What happened to Bobby’s arm?
He was actually safe.
He was out…without a doubt.
He was out, his foot was raised….lets go phil
4-1 Boston
hughes ready and willing to go into meltdown now.
Markakis is known for a good arm, he had 13 assists last year.
vrsce… thanks… that happens every time I post something. You are not allowed to state the obvious unless it is covered with fluff or something seen through the eyes of George Bush..
However, this team is still in an offensive funk and is horrible three weeks into the year with RISP. I know it is a long season but so far this is not a matter of “the ball not bouncing” they are taking good pitches and swinging at bad pitches. And no, the pitching has not been that good that they have faced.
Right now, with 2 solid hits, they are making Cabrera look like a #1 starter.
Back to back hits. Settle down Phil.
yep, and here’s the meltdown from the overrated phil hughes.
The franchise huh!!
If farnsworth confesses to the Pope that he threw at Manny is he forgiven?
Assists are not the mark of a good arm…that is deceiving. As an O’s season ticket holder, Markakis has a good arm, not a great arm. He gets tested often because he does not release the ball quickly. The increase in opportunities leads to an increase in assists.
I can’t believe we can’t touch daniel Cabera.
jennifer, they’re just flexing their creativity. seriously. just once i’d like to hear opposing fans chant “THE YANKEES ARE A GOOD TEAM BUT WE HATE THEM BECAUSE THEY WIN SO MUCH”
Jim Palmer admitted Bobby was safe when they came back from the break.
Phil is really doing good against these AAA players huh
Dee, I think Ensberg should be starting at first everyday, not filling in at 3rd that day. Let Gonzo play the backup to the rest of the infield.
Anyone hear anything on Betemit’s pink eye? I am so worried about him! Not.
That can’t be mel, can it?
Got away with a hanger there…Jeez Phil. At least TRY to throw a change or a slider.
Ortiz out of his slump?
Okay got two outs, but scored a run. I’ll take it.
Betemit has a corneal ulcer…it could be awhile before he comes back, per yankees.com.
I’d give up the run for the DP.
Yanks make crap pitchers look like Cy Young, they always have! at least phil got the double play. not bad if he gets out with only giving up one run
Hughes sure looks like he’ll top out at maybe a 3 or 4 starter. He just doesn’t come close to dominating enough to be a staff “ace”.
oh for those interested 3-1 Rangers nearing the end of the first period. It appears the Devils’ season may be drawing to a close tonight.
only 1-0, great GIDP pitch Phil !
George, he’s only 21 years-old. Let him develop a little…
Okay got out with little damage. This team needs to wake up.
Woo the harbor looks pretty.
P
Some meltdown eh, pitching out of a 1st and 3rd no outs only giving up one.
Phil minimizes the damage. Only 1 run. I hope the Yanks start scoring. The weather is warm.
not mel would be my guess.
mlb
April 18th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Phil is really doing good against these AAA players huh
.
he SHOAR is, Mister Dufus !!!!
Great job limiting the damage right there.
The Yanks will get to Cabrera eventually as they always do.
He has marginal control and if he wants to throw fastballs down the heart he will get lit up.
George, just shut up. You cannot judge a pitcher’s potential like that.
1 run through 4 innings is a good start to the game. He’s at 67 pitches, so it looks like a 6 inning night, unless he is economical and lucky next inning.
I only hated because Phil is so overrated it just makes me feel sick to my stomach.
coulda been mel being sarcastic maybe?
Amen Westerner99, he is still maturing as a pitcher. Let’s have a little patience with the guy. He’s not going to be an ace right away.
Go Rangers! NY and Texas!
come on bats
So are these Baltimore trolls or just the usual Boston trolls?
Phil Phony
OMG! Cano got a hit!
Do you guys realize this is the seventh combination of YES broadcasters the Yankees have used so far this year?
They are trying to be aggressive on the bases, but it hasn’t worked out so far.
Hey Jason how about laying down a bunt?
Nick in SF
They are idiots. Lets leave it at that.
People just compare Phil stuff with Hernandez from Seatt. Or Santana from min. And tell me if Phil is going to ever going to get to close to their level?….oh and don’t come with the 21 year old crap, they are also pretty young.
Me thinks they are Boston trolls as there aren’t too many O’s trolls these day.
Anything is possible though.
Moral victory, Giambi had a 1-1 count there, not the usual 0-2.
“George, he’s only 21 years-old. Let him develop a little…”
I know, but his strikeout numbers aren’t impressive and batters still take far too many good swings. Yanks are having far fewer good swings vs Cabrera.
And it’s pretty warm out there…why aren’t the Yanks hitting? Wasn’t the weather the all-encompassing excuse used by the apologists like SJ?
Meanwhile, Boston taking care of business….
I miss Shelley. I wouldn’t mind if Betemit passes that pink eye along to Giambi.
Rebecca..they are trying to use as many combinations as Girardi is using for his line up!
nice clean hit up the middle for Robbie.
you know, i often hear that those clean base hits up the middle often break guys out of slumps. i’ve heard that more often than pinch hit go ahead homers anyway. just saying.
I don’t know if they are Baltimore or Boston trolls.
But they sure are dumb twats.
When can we bench Giambi?
Melky is really coming along! he is going to have a good season!
I thought that was gone. It just missed going out. And oh joy Chad is up to bat.
” I only hated because Phil is so overrated it just makes me feel sick to my stomach.”
take a midol.
Uh, George, I dunno about you but I think Melky hit that pretty hard.
Melkman is on fire. Glad he’s on my fantasy team.
Westerner,
I had a corneal ulcer a while back and it was no big deal… but as anything, depends on how severe. It basically just means there is bacteria in the eye – could be 3-4 days with no contact lenses – could lead to loss of sight in the eye. I’m guessing it’s not that bad at all and he could play if they needed him right now.
Melky !!
Some nice power there by Melky. I’m starting to have faith he could be a regular for a while again.
Cabrera this kid is nasty hitting(and with the glove)
Can’t belove he was consider to be just a throwing in the Santana deal.
Melky JUST missed a homer. Please get at least one of those runs in.
HAHAHAHA Mora!!!!!!!! Thanks for the help!
Believe*******
“People just compare Phil stuff with Hernandez from Seatt. Or Santana from min. And tell me if Phil is going to ever going to get to close to their level?….oh and don’t come with the 21 year old crap, they are also pretty young.”
Hughes doesn’t even equal someone like Cueto from Cincy. It has nothing to do with his age. He just doesn’t even have flashes of dominance. A low 90′s fastball and a rolling breaking ball…whooopie!
ok someone made the argument that Giambi is coming around, Except for Timlin, he is just lost up at the plate. For those that follow AAA, isn’t there any solution down there to this putrid line up.
Why is it that player perform, sign a fat contract with the Yankees and the suck to holy high hell once they sign.
Nice hit by Melk….
SA Not sure if you realize this, but that is a very vulgar word for a woman.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/twat
that’s what i’m talking about. yankee bats come alive
Rebecca, do you think they’re trying to find the best combination, or these guys have the best part-time job going??
Thanks Melvin. Nice job putting the ball in play Chad.
Fun stat: add Cano and Giambi’s batting averages and they are still below Moeller’s.
Fundamentals
1-1. This game was always just a matter of time. Hughes is doing well so far, strike one to almost every batter. Good crisp game.
Good timing to get an error. Yanks tie it up.
Thank you Melvin!!! Let’s really make them pay for that.
Okay that is def not mel.
Come on Johny Damonnnnnnnn
Iám sure you guys don’t agree with me though.
edit…Cabrera’s. (I was distracted by the run scoring.)
Michael Kay doing a Flav a Flav promo is a litle surreal.
Mora giving everyone another reminder of why the Mets traded him in the first place.
Hey you Yankee fans were wrong about one thing. You said that Ortiz wouldn’t be able to hit homers now that he’s off roids. I was checking into that and he will probably still hit homers but just not a lot.
Do you read me MLB? Those Yankee fans sure got that one wrong! He did have some home runs before he was on the roids, when he was in Minny. Sure not like he had in Boston, what a 5000% increase or something. But he did have some.
So he will hit home runs again. Silly to think he’d never get another one just because he cut out the steroids!
Oh please, Hughes is doing better than Santana when he was 21
Westerner what do you get it you add Damon’s average into that equation
Jennifer-I didn’t even realize that! Oopsie
People don’t realize that young pitchers get better with age. Phil is only 21 the youngest pitcher in the game.
Hey! Cueto is 100 times better than Hughe.
Don’t compare hughe to him
Sa I figured, you don’t seem like the type to throw around words like that. One of my co-workers used that word. He is 50 some years, he didn’t realize what the word meant.
Baltimore’s defense is killing them.
Make them pay Derek.
MLB you agree with me about Ortiz? I can’t believe Yankee fans thought that Ortiz would NEVER hit a homer again just because he cut out steroids. Never? Come on that’s silly. Right MLB?
Oh yeah. Great fundamentals by the O’s there.
C’mon Jeter!
How long are the Yankee going to stick with Giambi? He clearly has nothing left. I understand he is in the last year of his deal and the Yanks dont have any other options. But I much rather watch Duncan than this guy.
Doreen: LMAO!
At least the Yanks are hustling and making the O’s pay for sloppy defense.
jennifer
April 18th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
People don’t realize that young pitchers get better with age. Phil is only 21 the youngest pitcher in the game.
Yeah ok!! how better can you get throwing 91mph? I’ll understand if he had a 98mhp fastball ill say ok he probably can better his control and be more dominant, but he has no fastball, Liriano, Hernandez can throw 98mph. They can get better.
Who is available to pitch tonight? Mo, Edwar. Who else?
Thanks Kenny!!
Seriously, is there a worse team in MLB with runners in scoring position than the Yanks?
what is Jetes swingin’ at ???….dang !
trisha –
April 18th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
MLB you agree with me about Ortiz? I can’t believe Yankee fans thought that Ortiz would NEVER hit a homer again just because he cut out steroids. Never? Come on that’s silly. Right MLB?
Hahahaha you funny. Atleast he hasn’t gotten caught like Giamby, clemens, oh and another Yankee sheffield.
Won’t you agree with me on that Trisha????
whatever happened to that duffy fellow who made a cameo appearance to claim the O’s are a “much better team than the Yankees fundamentally”? i guess he started watching how their infield plays.
Jennifer I never even realized what that word really meant..lol
Ya really do learn something new everyday
I’ll stick to calling people twit instead of that word.
Agree with Jennifer. I always hear people say CMW hasn’t hit his prime yet and he’s 7 years older than Phil! Phil is paying the price now for starting to peak early and having to sharpen his skills in the spotlight. It’s not his fault.
Okay, how much warmer does it have to get before the Yanks can hit at least like an average team?
I think everyone should get off Phil’s back. I don’t see him being dominant, but yes, I do see him eventually being “very good”. The only problem he has (which is a BIG one), is a lack of secondary pitches. If Phil wants to be a #1, he has to develop a change, slider, or something else. You can name the number of big league SPs who rely on two pitches on one hand. Interestingly enough, though, YES showed him talking to CMW about a sinker last night.
But in some countries its just a slang word, and not in the same context its used here. Try saying the word fanny in England or Australia and see what kind of looks you get for example, lol.
Oh I forgot Pettitte trisha sorry is so many of them.
Hawkins, Ohlendorf, and Bruney should also be available since they had a recovery day, though I’m sure the Yanks would rather that they get another day of rest.
Guys, just watch Hughes pitch. He’s not impressive. WATCH.
Mel I can’t believe you’re so down on Hughes.
There’s no way all those scouts were wrong. He’ll be ok. Let’s give him 5-6 starts before we start crucifying this guy. I’m waiting for the DFA posters to come out. He allowed one run in 4+ innings. Oh man, we better run him out of town !!!
S.A.-Phil Hughes is Saved and Joba will be a starter
Why call anyone names? More a reflection of you than them/
Good lord. Let the child pitch and get off his back.
Now Trasha name one superstar tamper by all these steroids talk(from the redsox)
phil needs a quick inning here. get the yanks back off the field!
I had to look at the scoreboard to see if they were losing. Usually the amount of trolls on here is proportionally related to the amount of runs the Yankees are down by.
Must be a full moon or something.
Giambi should have turned that DP but he’s too afraid to throw.
“Why call anyone names? More a reflection of you than them/”
Seriously, are you for real? LOL
Trust me dear…that was me being nice and polite
Good decision by Giambi.
I like Phil, my argument is that he’s overrated thats all.
All the trolls being so down on hughes may want to research the first 3-4 seasons of some of the more dominant pitchers who broke into the majors young. Santana for example was MISERABLE in his first few seasons. and what becomes of a large percentage of the young starters that start out hot (Prior, Liriano etc) they get overworked and get hurt.
Angel
What does fanny mean there? I guess keep it as clean as you can.
ummm…where’s the blogger who said the O’s play fundamentally better??
Hopefully a nice quick inning from Phil here.
Thanks Luis.
Does Hughes even have a slider or a change????? please answer and if so why doesnt he throw them???
Methinks mel is not mel.
Start talking about the Rainbow Warriors and see what she posts
Nice throw by Moeller to get Hernandez at third!
Angel it is a full moon.
more fundamentals from the O’s
trisha-don’t hide talk. i seriously want to see what’s your comeback.
Angel,
Actually there will be a full moon this weekend!
Nice inning for Hughes.
Take that haters!!
NICE INNING PHIL! say what you want…Phil is giving the Yanks what they need tonight. the offense isn’t cooperating!
…it’s already the 6th?
This time last night and night before it was only in the third.
miggs, i am guessing that’s not mel
He’s not dominating, and he’s up in the zone. He’s still getting it done. Props to Phil.
Isn’t it pretty hard to tell for sure if a 21 year old is overrated??? I mean, the sample size is so small and he has so much of his career ahead of him.
Definitely not mel.
I think any definitive statements on Hughes are premature. Nobody, not anyone on this earth, much less on this blog knows how Phil’s career will play out. Any statements one way or the other are just pure SWAG’s, stupid wild a_ _ guesses.
Hughes has now pitched the same number of innings that he did in his last 2 starts combined. Thankfully.
Go away Fake Mel……out the airlock…. damn spot
4-1 Rangers!!!
“”Brian from PA
April 18th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
All the trolls being so down on hughes may want to research the first 3-4 seasons of some of the more dominant pitchers who broke into the majors young. Santana for example was MISERABLE in his first few seasons”"
Exactly my point sir. Santana has always thrown 95+ not 89+..please. dont compare kid..way off
Good job Phil
Your turn Yankee bats
Umm… basically same as the S.A’s word, especially in England. So if you ever get to one of those places, you might wanna use butt instead. Although most people will find it amusing if you are unaware and say it innocently.
4-1 Rangers early in the 2nd. See you next year, Devils.
Its this kind of nonsense that makes me stay away from this blog during games.
This Phil Hughes talk is ridiculous.
Well, he made it through five but allowed another baserunner. Hmmm. He must suck.
Hey Mel, is taking a no-hitter into the 7th inning a good enough “flash of dominance” that you claim Hughes doesn’t show?
S.A.-Phil Hughes is Saved and Joba will be a starter
I could tell that was you being nice, as I saw you being nasty and vulgar earlier. Neither style is impressive.
Hughes throws BOTH a slider and a change.
His slider was his BEST pitch before he got to the Yankees. The Yankees decided it would be better if he ditched it in favor of a curve and in fear of health issues.
His change is still a developing pitch. He flashed it a few times last year and has thrown it maybe 5 times all year. It’s more of getting the guts to throw it in a game situation, being that it’s a “feel” pitch.
Weee! Let’s go Rangers! 4-1
“miggs, i am guessing that’s not mel”
I just realized that…. sorry for feeding the trolls.
Even is a better Pitcher than hughe. And he’s not so overrated.
Funny story Kenny just told.
I find it fascinating that so many posters here can predict what Phil Hughes will do, will or will not become, the rest of his career, let alone this season.
If only we could predict the stock market so readily.
miggs, its the trolls… we need to ignore them
and whether Pete likes it or not, he’s ultimately going to have to require registration
Cabrera***
Mel, KISS MY GRITS!
sorry, I had to do it.
4-1 Blue jays
Lefty Mussina sucks to0.
no prob miggs, its tough when they “steal” names
miggs: mel is not mel.
I hate the Rangers. Good thing we’ve won a Stanley Cup this millennium.
Guys – I do believe that Damon looks finished. Tonight’s confirmed it for me. I feel for him, but it’s time for youth.
“I could tell that was you being nice, [b]as I saw you being nasty and vulgar earlier[/b]. Neither style is impressive.”
Really? When?
Boston dave, Agreed. IT gets too out of control here when the Yankees are losing.
Things are looking up for MSG…fire Isiah and Rangers about to advance in the playoffs! NY Sports are looking up!
Cabrera=facing real major league hitters
hughes=facin minor league hitters
Game=tied at 1
could someone get duncan on a plane
vrsce
He didn’t realize what the word meant. Give him a break.
Your “T” word, very stylish, elegant even.
have any of you ever taken a really bad dump and it smelled?
C’mon Hideki. Take advantage of this.
wow twice
LOL Rebecca…did you rip that out of the Red Sox handbook?
How many times did Greg Maddux hit 98?
Sadly, Pete won’t go the registration route. He thinks he’d be sacrificing page hits…he wants quantity over quality.
2 HBPs for Matsui
ok, enough is enough. can one of our pitchers please actually PLUNK someone! How many times do the Yankees have to get hit??
Wow. which knee did he have surgery on? I know it was above it.
The troll’s just mad that Hughes is gonna lower his ERA lower than that laptops guy soon (right now, they’re tied at 6.75)
That gotta hurt.
The only thing I am worried about Isiah is that even though he was fired as HC, he still is employed with the Knicks in some capacity. How that man still has an association with the Knicks is mind-boggling.
Maddux hit .098 one year.
sara if we hit someone the media will scream and carry on about it.
Does Cabrera have something against Matsui?
jennifer
Then why use it? Why do a core of people on this blog, lash out with names and labels when they do not agree with some comments?
yeah tell hughe to plunk someone he will seriously hurt someone
vrsce, like I said it means different things around the world. He apologized and won’t say it again. Geez.
Peter,
Please start requiring registration.
Once again, Cano proves he cannot…CANNOT…hit with RISP!
I have to agree with all those that support Phil. He is not the issue and really is doing just fine. He will take his lumps but his lumps will be more acceptable than someone like Mike “I love to watch Manny hit so I pitch to him” Mussina.
The big issue with this team is that they are old and fundamentally their hitting stinks. Their pitch selection is horrible, they can’t hit with RISP, they just look lost at the plate. This is not cured by warm weather or streaks, or “just wait”… Add to this that they have no defense at 1st, LF, sometimes CF…
So really, Hughes… C’mon, the kid is a stud with sick stuff. Give me five of him and take Damon, Matsui, Giambi, Betemit, Mussina, Farnsworth…
“could someone get duncan on a plane”
Why Clueless Joe will just leave him on the bench to waste, he’s better off playing everyday for now.
Sara – great point, definitely the day of the year at MSG!!
GO YANKEES!!
GO RANGERS!!
jennifer you are right, then the yanks would be under investivation…ridiculous.
giambi and cano should not be back to back in this lineup
good pitch
I think we need to threaten to send Jason back to the minors. Hey it worked last time.
Brian: LMAO
Yes, I admit it, I can’t handle losing to the Rangers. At least losing to the Red Sox I don’t have to deal with Boston fans every day. Well, I do, but they’re friends. The Rangers fans I know…aren’t, for the most part.
jeff – I thought when they sent him down (shelly) it was to clear the roster spot and get him some at-bats and play him every day at first when he comes back up
Suddenly Girardi is “Clueless Joe?” He can’t even manage a full month here before he is being judged?
westerner…joe torre was named clueless joe before even managing one Yankee game!
good lord vrsce-enough. I didn’t use the word in that context.
Melk man is up.
lol it’s cool Rebecca. The Devils scored again, cheer up. They are a fine, fine organization, they will always be in it for years to come. you have no idea how great it was to see them get off to such a lousy start this season just to see them rocket back to the top of the division for a long time. i’ll tell you i bet Rangers fans are a lot more annoyed by the Devils than vice versa.
Sara – that was the media. Trust them and you’ll lead a life of mistruths and factless opinions.
Bases loaded. The Yanks have to take advantage.
Nice AB there Giambi.
bases loaded 2 outs. this has been the yankees bread and butter this year……….
Only Daisuke, pitching a great game, 5IP, 3H, 1R, 2BB
could be at almost 100 pitches after 5 innings.
That bullpen isn’t going to last if they still have to go 3-4IP on the nights when their #2 starter pitches a gem.
C’mon Melky
I said Clueless Joe sarcasticly. I think he’s a great manager. Oh and by the way, the NY Post called him that about a week ago, so he was called that about 10 days into his tenure. I do think Joe does tend to be a bit stubborn with the veterans Moose and Giambi. He’ll come around.
Prediction – if he makes an out, people will be calling for Gardner.
Prediction – if he gets on, he’ll be up for MVP.
More futility in clutch spots with RISP. Maybe the team just isn’t that good? Maybe it’s not the weather?
Daniel Cabrera at 100 pitches
westerner..i know and it was the media who ran the headline Clueless Joe after girardi elected not to walk Manny. It was the head line of the Post I believe. I don’t agree with it but you can never win in NY
you smell, melky!
Melky swung at ball whatever
Oh well.
What a horrible swing on that 1-1 curve. Horrible
Argh, Melky.
Oh, by the way, that was an ill-informed columnist that wrote that in the Post…he was the same guy who thought Torre was a terrible hire.
And once again, the pride of the Yankees comes through with RISP.
Just unacceptable for players making this kind of money.
RISP———-runners in stranded position……
We are the best at leaving RISP. Gotta love it.
This offense is pretty pathetic.
oh wow, can’t believe my eyes. the yankees fail to do a damn thing with the bases loaded.
I can’t believe Daniel Cabrera pumped his fist like that. What a lowlife.
Why can’t we hit with men on base? I would really, really like to know.
Devils just scored
4-3 game now
So where is the outrage at Daniel Cabrera for the fist pump?
I didn’t think so.
Melky K’s to end the inning. Argh!
Missed a golden opportunity there.
That was not good
Hughe gotta really do his part this inning
Well that was frustrating. Too bad they couldn’t capitalize on that. However it still tied and Cabrera’s pitch count is getting up there.
I am very impressed, people! No one has issued a DFA yet.
“Just unacceptable for players making this kind of money.”
Who makes more, Daniel or Melky?
The “Clueless” part refers to Torre becoming manager of the Yankees, not to his actual managing of the Yankees (“Clueless Joe” headlined backpage of November 3, 1995 Daily News Sports)
You can even look up an image of the original back page, which also says “TORRE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE’S GETTING INTO”
Wow. This is really getting to be something that’s more of a passing problem. What is it going to take? Are they pressing? They seriously have to start doing a lot better with RISP. (Doh!) Signed, Captain Obvious
Prediction: Melky will never change that crazy approach with huge hacks. He might hit some, but when facing good pitching he’ll fail miserably because of that crazy ass swing.
Yankee Fan in Boston
April 18th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
So where is the outrage at Daniel Cabrera for the fist pump?
I didn’t think so.
Did he look at Melky while he was doing it.
Didn’t think so.
We don’t hit with runners in scoring position because we have Cano and Giambi at the bottom of our lineup. The top of our lineup gets on base, the bottom gets us out.
Giambi is dead weight. Even if he recovers, he’s not worth throwing out there.
The fact of the matter is that this Yankee team is a gutless bunch of chokers who would rather be doing anything but hitting with men on base.
And Phil is getting ready to lose the game. Nice job you punk
lol, we must be way overdue for a DFA post.
At the very least they were able to work some counts, draw a couple of walks, and get Cabrera’s pitch count up to 103. It is a bit frustrating, but at least they will probably be into the Oriole bullpen, maybe they will have better luck against them.
C’mon Phil. Tie game, runners on base. Let’s see what you’re made of.
IF the yanks lose tonight it was because of the top of the 6th inning. pathetic
Come on Phil. You’ve pitched a great game so far. No more pitches right down the middle.
C’mon you guys are picking on Melky? The bases loaded=zero runs is a team wide problem.
Blargh -
Thanks for making that clear.
I think a lot of people don’t realize that.
Daniel Cabrera makes 2.875 mil compared to Melky’s 0.4612 mil, so a little bit over 6 times as much
Good play by Melky to hold Markakis at second.
Here we go, Hughes’ time to implode.
hughe is in trouble dammit
WATCH HUGHES PITCH! Nothing but a straight low 90′s fastball that hitters get great swings at and a curveball that fools nobody. The guy has nothing.
Wait for it….wait for it….
here comes a DFA Hughes post…
one of the ill-informed “fans” will post it.
I would like to see Shelly Duncan get called up & get a chance to play. Giambi has done almost zero……..
Its just annoying to know that we let a feast like Cabrera get away. 1 run? He’s a terrible pitcher who has no control whatsoever.
C’mon on Phil
gotta work out of this Phil…you can do it !
I really can’t wait for Jose or Jorge to get back behind the plate.
“C’mon you guys are picking on Melky? The bases loaded=zero runs is a team wide problem.”
Melky was the only one to hit with the bases loaded last inning.
I thought Melky had some pretty good numbers with the bases loaded, actually. Just not tonight.
mlb Sorry I actually thought it was important to try to get something together for dinner.
“Hahahaha you funny. Atleast he hasn’t gotten caught like Giamby, clemens, oh and another Yankee sheffield.
Won’t you agree with me on that Trisha????”
Well well MLB let’s talk about this. Gotten caught? Who caught Giambi? Giambi actually owned up to it.
Clemens, you mean the ex-Sux player Clemens? Lot of people are believing he cut his steroid teeth when he was with the Sux.
Sheffield? Do your homework Slug(go). All of the allegations about Sheffield were BEFORE he came to the Yankees.
Now you asked about any Sux stars – or I forget did you say superstars? Can’t remember. But part of the problem is that the Sux haven’t really had many stars. But in terms of someone REALLY suspected of using, what the heck was his name – and I don’t know how the hell people ever suspected this kid because he is so damned SKINNY! Right MLB?????
http://cache.boston.com/images.....ver_SI.jpg
What is this? TTTT – Troll Tag Team Time?
Doreen / Blargh – You are only half correct. The moniker was also used to call him clueless because he was coming out of the broadcast booth and they wrote that he was out of touch with today’s players.
Hughes might be out of gas, but he had a better performance tonight than the last two times combined.
I like mel’s other personality much better.
“”scorpio
April 18th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
C’mon you guys are picking on Melky? The bases loaded=zero runs is a team wide problem.”"
Exactly my point they support hughe through all hi bs.. but they dont give a break to malky or cano, I tell you’ll.
Come on, people. That was not Melky’s fault. You sometimes have to praise the pitcher. I think Giambi got better pitches to hit, but didn’t.
Argh.
2-1 and runners on the corners. Hawkins is warming in the pen. C’mon Phil.
The reason Hughes sucks isnt because he is young its because he only has 2 pitches!!!!
Hughes’ control is ridiculous. He was supposed to have great command but every pitch they hit is right down the middle or way up in the strikezone. Can’t be succesfull with that horrible command.
It is only 2 – 1…no reason to jump off the cliff yet.
Why can’t we get any offense going tonight?
Poor Phil…he is pitching fine…but absolutely no run support.
watch closely yankees, that’s what a hit with RISP looks like.
I recall a saying…. Get em on, get em over, get em IN…. Only works if you do the last one though
O’s have a solid back end of the pen, we cannot waste this start by Phil Franchise
Hughe last inning hopefully
Hughes seems much better tonight. But no run support doesn’t help – don’t you think it makes a pitcher, especially a young inexperienced pitcher, feel like he has to be perfect? Which of course, makes it a lot less than perfect
The yanks will regret not trading Hughes and Kennedy when they stink it up this season and their value plummets.
Im just sick of this team not hitting with guys on base its getting to be a joke
Yes he sure did, Rebecca. Thank you for rationally pointing that out.
Jeff: Love the userhandle.
I love these people saying hughes is much better tonight. HE IS FACING THE O’s!!!!
mlb don’t ignore me really. I want to talk about this!
OK…3 hits in a row….somebody see if Girardi is awake…I won’t make the Torre comparisons…but we do have people in the bullpen with fresh arms…..USE ONE OF THEM, DAMMIT !
“The yanks will regret not trading Hughes and Kennedy when they stink it up this season and their value plummets.”
The Yankees will be glad they didn’t trade Hughes and Kennedy during Hughes’ many Cy Young runs
I know there are a lot of haters out there. But I remember Mike was working on this book last year.
http://search.barnesandnoble.c.....915/?itm=4
These AA hitters. If only it was a real team Phil was facing like redsox. you’ll could notice the difference.
doreen you are 100% correct. phil feels like he has to be perfect to keep the team in it because the damn offense can’t hit a lick!
Phil did a good job tonight..but he is gassed…he needs the hook…NOW !
Hughes won’t be the first yankee prospect to be overrated and won’t be the last, either.
I remember when Johnson, Taylor and Kamienecki were going to be a great trio….
Phil isn’t getting the corners at all.
Check it out MLB. To think anyone would have accused this Sux player of using roids!!!
http://cache.boston.com/images.....ver_SI.jpg
Thanks Rebecca, it was time to spice it up. I promise if they give Morgan a week of at bats and he sucks I’ll never mention it again. However, the guy is hitting .384. Giambi is taking up space for a change.
It would be nice if Adam (not Pacman) Jones did the same thing that he did his last time up.
Trisha Iam not ignoring you. you just being hidding somewhere.
“Im just sick of this team not hitting with guys on base its getting to be a joke”
WAAAAAAAAAAH! WAAAAAAAH WAAAAAH!
baaah
Giambi is USELESS. Bad throw but Jason has GOT to catch that ball.
One of the things with Hughes in the minors was that he was so good he never had to pitch from the stretch and he never had to pitch out of trouble. So, it really does make sense that facing major league hitters, he’s going to get into some trouble. He is going to learn how to work out of these situations. Working in the AAA level will not make him better at this point in time.
That play was ARod’s fault.
#1 Alex could have gone home.
#2 Jason probably should have had that.
He’s approaching 100 pitches and a big insurance run for them is on 3rd base….sink or swim, huh ?
This is a bad team, folks. And lead by a non-winner in Arod.
Giambi stinks
Ouch, that should probably be an error on A-Rod.
Damn the tone of this blog turned really quickly. Hughes was the man 10 minutes ago if you recall. He can’t win if you don’t score
Well Phil’s defense and offense did him no favors.
That was a tweener play for ARod – not a sure play at the play and a last minute decision to go to first.
Blame it on the defense now people-hughe is Mr perfect- franchise indeed….hahahahahahahaha
I’m out. Good night everyone.
Play at the plate, that is.
i dont think arod should have gone home, it was hit too slowly.
but giambi should have at least knocked the ball down. you cant whiff on that throw.
A Rod blew that one, but I’ll take the opportunity to blame Giambi.
Well, Girardi was the answer… Kevin Long is the answer.. and the Yankees are not making hthe playoffs this year. This just went from bad to worse.
I admit it now.. i am and was spoiled watching real Yankees play from 96-2000… since then, not sure what has happened.
Now I know what a Cubs fan feels like..
Hughes couldn’t come close to getting the strikeout he needed. Does the fool even have an “out pitch”?
Jennifer –
Have a good weekend. Bring some good luck with you!
Wow…what a novel idea…bringing in a relief pitcher ? If these 2 runs score, I say they are as much Girardi’s fault as Phil’s….gotta be a LITTLE faster with the hook, Joe…That’s not Andy out there, pal
…I’m surprised it took them this long to do that…
“The fact of the matter is that this Yankee team is a gutless bunch of chokers who would rather be doing anything but hitting with men on base.
And Phil is getting ready to lose the game. Nice job you punk”
“WATCH HUGHES PITCH! Nothing but a straight low 90’s fastball that hitters get great swings at and a curveball that fools nobody. The guy has nothing.”
Is this really mel, or a faker?
Trisha I don’t ignore u either!
I just want to know when Yankees fans are going to admit that Phil is just not a good pitcher. They just keep blaming the defense, the offense, this, that come on people. The franchise sucks point blank.
Going to the minors will do nothing for Phil. He wasn’t great, but with a good D behind him and some sort of offense he was good enough to win the game. The scary thing is that he is fastball/curve 99.9% of the time. It’s just not possible to be a good ML pitcher with only 2 pitches.
C’mon LaTroy. You can do this
1 STRIKEOUT IN 6 INNINGS??? THIS IS THE FUTURE NUMBER ONE ACE OF THE STAFF!! LOL!
it’s a 3-1 game you’d think it was 15-0 from this damn place. didn’t think it would become so polluted during an April game against Baltimore. This isn’t worth sticking around for, goodnight to the actually fans. GO YANKEES
Let me get this straight, they won’t intentioanlly walk Manny, but walk a backup catcher hitting .126?
Giambi has to try and knock the ball down.
Need to hold Baltimore here.
Wow, all of you spoiled brats – please turn off the game and go away. Stop whining.
Poor Phil, not a terrible outing (not great either) now the best he can hope for is a ND.
The lack of hits with RISP come back to haunt the Yanks again.
Not what I had in mind
Why didn’t A-Rod throw home?
Why is it so hard for the New York Yankees to throw the ball home?
We had the bases loaded, had a ground ball, and we did not take the force at home a few games ago.
Kevin MILLAR was the runner! You throw that ball HOME.
sigh
If they were going to IBB, why didn’t they just have Hughes do it?
“Going to the minors will do nothing for Phil. He wasn’t great, but with a good D behind him and some sort of offense he was good enough to win the game. The scary thing is that he is fastball/curve 99.9% of the time. It’s just not possible to be a good ML pitcher with only 2 pitches.”
Agreed. He needs to work on his changeup. Unfortunately, he got hurt last year (when he was originally supposed to work on it).
He’ll be fine, but he really does need that third pitch.
Shelley is eligible to be recalled tomorrow. It all hinges on the catching. If Jorge and Jose are OK Moeller gets sent to AAA and Shelley dons his familiar No. 17 jersey.
This is why you don’t intentionally walk Ramon Hernandez.
game over…. welcome to last place…
Well, at least I can go to bed early tonight & catch up on my sleep………………..
Way to go LaRoger Clemens!
Arod, Hughes, LOL. Go Orioles.
See that’s what you have to do with bases loaded…Aargh!!!!
And he gives up a single and 2 runs…eek. The Yanks offense will really have to string something together.
“I just want to know when Yankees fans are going to admit that Phil is just not a good pitcher. They just keep blaming the defense, the offense, this, that come on people. The franchise sucks point blank.”
:rofl:
You really are a piece of work. He’s TWENTY ONE YEARS OLD. He is a WORK IN PROGRESS. He is not an ace. Yet.
Name me an ace pitcher who was an ace from day one.
I just want to know when Yankees fans are going to admit that Phil is just not a good pitcher. They just keep blaming the defense, the offense, this, that come on people. The franchise sucks point blank.Wow.
Positives include how much better Phil looked in this start. 2 earned runs in only his fourth start of the year.
Concern mounting that if we keep using the BP at this rate, they will be hurting by August.
Pepper Brooks – do you actually root for the Yankees? You sound like a Red Sox troll.
Ben Sheets pitching a shutout for Milwaukee tonight. Package Hughes and Melky and make the offer for him. The Brewers won’t be able to sign him after this season.
Do we still want Johan? 7 IP, 1 ER, 2 H, 10 K….and counting….hmmmm
I was a just a litle baffled by walking the catcher too. I’m sure they had a reason, I’m just not clear on what it was at face value, lol.
This was a good start by Hughes. He did what the team was asking him to do. He threw strikes, got ahead of hitters and gave them quality innings.
The team on the other hand has done nothing to help him.
Right there it looked like he was working out of a tough inning and limiting the damage.
Not only was that bad play by Alex, it was an awful play by Giambi. When he’s not hitting he’s an enormous liability because Giambi is such an awful fielder. He’s made three terrible plays tonight – that play he played side saddle, the ball he caught that a normal first baseman would have turned a double play on (or at least got the lead runner), and that last play.
Hughes was much, much better than his last two starts. He had good fastball command (not great – but good). He was doing a good job throwing strike one.
Tonight was a step forward but phil still isn’t there. Tonight he didn’t have his really good curveball – the curve was good tonight but not as much of the sharp breaking hammer he has when he’s on (ironically his curve against Boston was much better last game – but with no fastball command).
It’s still a work in progress. Tonight is a real positive for Hughes as it gives him more to build on.
The issue tonight was in no way Phil Hughes. If either ARod or Giambi do their jobs on defense Phil is most likely able to contain the damage in that inning.
The offense has been comatose and the defense terrible.
V-
“Name me an ace pitcher who was an ace from day one.”
UUUUMMM have you heard of Francisco Santana from minnesota.. and please dont make name hundreds more.
Where is Edwar?????
No MLB it appears that the censor does not like the real name for Boston, Sox, only with a “u” between the S and the X. So my posts to you have been held back! I guess I’ll repost with the real name changed to Sox.
Well I see the censor came to its senses. But rather than have you have to go back and find it (9:03 p.m.) I will change it to “Sox” or the censor might grab it again and then wait again until it let’s it go through!
___________________________________________
mlb Sorry I actually thought it was important to try to get something together for dinner.
“Hahahaha you funny. Atleast he hasn’t gotten caught like Giamby, clemens, oh and another Yankee sheffield.
Won’t you agree with me on that Trisha????â€
Well well MLB let’s talk about this. Gotten caught? Who caught Giambi? Giambi actually owned up to it.
Clemens, you mean the ex-Sox player Clemens? Lot of people are believing he cut his steroid teeth when he was with the Sox.
Sheffield? Do your homework Slug(go). All of the allegations about Sheffield were BEFORE he came to the Yankees.
Now you asked about any Sox stars – or I forget did you say superstars? Can’t remember. But part of the problem is that the Sux haven’t really had many stars. But in terms of someone REALLY suspected of using, what the heck was his name – and I don’t know how the hell people ever suspected this kid because he is so damned SKINNY! Right MLB?????
http://cache.boston.com/images.....ver_SI.jpg
Btw, I think a Hank comment is coming real soon. I can just feel it. I’ll guess he says something around the 20 game mark and takes a shot at cashman. The guy is a riot
come on offense….by the way…thats the hawkins we no..
This is santan line people 7 IP, 1 ER, 2 H, 10 K.
Ay bendito, que llorones!!!
Oh well it only took this long for someone to mention Johan’s line tonight, lol.
Of course no one wanted to do that his last start, but I digress.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I
1 more Hawkins. Come on
CB -
Exactly right.
This is the breaking point for me. We are, what, 18 games in?
I have sat here and applauded Girardi for his managing in most cases, but here I am flabbergasted. Why do you walk the backup catcher for the Orioles when there are so many situations that don’t let that run score.
He should have pulled Phil earlier and shame on Hawkins for not being careful with that hitter.
Hughes needs his velocity back and needs to have more confidence in his changeup. Without it he is nothing.
The starting pitching has been out of sorts for nearly a week short of a good performance by Andy. This needs to change and change soon before the bullpen becomes Torrelike.
No MLB it appears that the censor does not like the real name for Boston, Sox, only with a “u†between the S and the X. So my posts to you have been held back! I guess I’ll repost with the real name changed to Sox.
Well I see the censor came to its senses. But rather than have you have to go back and find it (9:03 p.m.) I will change it to “Sox†or the censor might grab it again and then wait again until it lets it go through!
___________________________________________
mlb Sorry I actually thought it was important to try to get something together for dinner.
“Hahahaha you funny. Atleast he hasn’t gotten caught like Giamby, clemens, oh and another Yankee sheffield.
Won’t you agree with me on that Trisha????â€
Well well MLB let’s talk about this. Gotten caught? Who caught Giambi? Giambi actually owned up to it.
Clemens, you mean the ex-Sox player Clemens? Lot of people are believing he cut his steroid teeth when he was with the Sox.
Sheffield? Do your homework Slug(go). All of the allegations about Sheffield were BEFORE he came to the Yankees.
Now you asked about any Sox stars – or I forget did you say superstars? Can’t remember. But part of the problem is that the Sox haven’t really had many stars. But in terms of someone REALLY suspected of using, what the heck was his name – and I don’t know how the hell people ever suspected this kid because he is so damned SKINNY! Right MLB?????
http://cache.boston.com/images.....ver_SI.jpg
Francisco Santana? Umm are you meaning Francisco Liriano?
Edwar is up in the pen.
“mlb
April 18th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
V-
“Name me an ace pitcher who was an ace from day one.â€
UUUUMMM have you heard of Francisco Santana from minnesota.. and please dont make name hundreds more.”
I’ve never heard of Francisco Santana, no. I’m sorry.
What happened to the arm Abreu used to have???
1 strikeout in 6 innings. He doesn’t even show the potential to be an ace. That injury in Texas seems to have taken so much away from him that just isn’t coming back.
It’s been a shock to watch Hughes and Kennedy pitch this season. Neither one has number 1 or 2 starter potential, imo.
Wow. A triple a team beating a major league team thats funny.
Whoo boy. 7-1 O’s on the single.
thats the hawkins i no! cant wait too boo him in the bronx
For some reason the censor keeps grabbing my post. MLB, if you do a search on your name and look at 9:03 p.m., you’ll see my response.
Everyone else, you may see that same above post come through several times. Please ignore it.
V-”I’ve never heard of Francisco Santana, no. I’m sorry.”
Ok I guess thats why you so inlove with crappy ass pitchers like Hughe
Doesn’t sound like a good performance from what I’ve read on another game blog – I was about to come here and read through, and I will. Poor Phil…….this is really frustrating. I wonder what happened to that kid who pitched, only 3 months ago, a brilliant 3 innings against the Indians in the ALDS?
“Everyone else, you may see that same above post come through several times. Please ignore it.”
you mean like you should be doing to the trolls?
*still wondering exactly who Francisco Santana is*
Does he play for the Xbox team?
OMG, this is an ugly game. Ok, I’ve made my decision: Joba in the rotation.
really should be
HUGHES: 6 INNINGS 3 RUNS.
but a-rod made a bad play.
not a good 2nd period for the Rangers
Liriano’s first four starts were 5 IP/2 ER, 3.7 IP/6 ER, 6 IP/4 ER, 7 IP/2 ER, then he reeled off a very nice half year, and his latest game was a 4.7 IP/4 ER
Santana’s first five starts were 5 IP/1 ER, 3.7 IP/7 ER, 3.3 IP/6 ER, 5.1 IP/3 ER, 4.7 IP/7 ER
(he was banished to the bullpen between his 3rd and 4th starts btw)
Well this is so not good
What stinks is really not so much that the Orioles have scored here, but that the Yankees haven’t been able to consistently do the same since the beginning of the season. It’s not a cold night tonight. Now what?
Seriously, do the Yankees read the scouting reports? It seems like other teams are able to make adjustments that the Yankees do not make. Or maybe it just seems that way.
Oh, yeah, Francisco Liriano. Reliever for a year, then a starter, then Tommy John surgery. Not sure if that qualifies as ace to me.
“Hughes needs his velocity back and needs to have more confidence in his changeup. Without it he is nothing.”
No. Neither one was the primary issue. His fast ball was exactly where it should be 91-93. And he was consistently at the knees with it.
He likely tired some in that sixth inning as he was over 90 pitches.
He still is working on this fastball command. Tonight it was better. Next start it will be even better. The other isse was his curveball – it was good but not up to where it it can be.
Hawkins Farnsworth Giambi Moose are all done they dont do anything but kill us… by the way when was the last time Cashman every signed someone that was good in the pen. Hmmm NEVER!
“OMG, this is an ugly game. Ok, I’ve made my decision: Joba in the rotation.”
Joba is irrepalceable. who do you want in the 8th?! Bruney is pitching good but its not a lock. How do we know how Joba will do? Its april. Hughes will be 15-7 by year end.
V.
Since I saw Reggie Jackson hit 3 homers in a game.. was 7 yrs old… So I have endured all the hoopla of the late 90′s and all the disgust before that and what we are currently seeing. This is the ONLY team I follow. And I expect more out of them than they are giving.
I know the season is long but this is the 4th year in a row that they are going to be struggling to make the playoffs. Enough already.
Wow…I predict the overwhelming stench of trolls will be too much to bear. Good night, All. Tomorrow is another chance !
Who is fransisco santana? You mean liriano? Or are you combining Santana and Liriano into 1 pitcher. BTW liriano doesn’t have great stuff right now, and he wasn’t 21.
CB
How is it that hughes only throws 2 pitches? He cant ever expect to be any good without a slider or a change.
And before I get jumped on by the Hughes-is-god crowd, I don’t think he’s horrible like the Hughes-is-the-devil crowd.
I think he needs to get his fastball back up to 93-94. If he doesnt, he can’t blow it by hitters to strike them out. He definitely had this velocity last year. He was NOT a 90-91mph pitcher last year. When his curve is on, he can be great. But he needs the changeup. What he probably needs more than anything is a splitter. I wonder how hard it would be for him to develop one or if he already has one (I hear he throws 5-7 pitches).
A pitcher that is going to be great will struggle, definitely. But they will also show flashes of greatness and dominance (Lincecum). Hughes did that last year and in the playoffs but has not even come close to showing that so far this year. It’s one thing to be shelled by the Red Sox, but for the Orioles to beat you is horrible.
I know part of this is because POsada is not behind the plate guiding him, but he’s got to make his pitches.
WHERE THE HE!! IS JOHAN
“Poor Phil…….this is really frustrating. I wonder what happened to that kid who pitched, only 3 months ago, a brilliant 3 innings against the Indians in the ALDS?”
This is what Jim Palmer just said about hughes – “He pitched much better than his numbers indicated. However, he’s only 21 years old.”
Nothing is wrong with Phil. This was a good start for him because he was much better than he was the last couple of games.
It’s a work in progress but I’m not worried about Hughes. He’s going to get better.
CB
I wholeheartedly agree with almost everything you said. Jason is a joke in the field, and hurt the team a lot out there tonight. But it’s hard to ignore the fact that Phil is throwing all fastball/curves and nothing else.
His curve would be much, much more effective as an out pitch if he didn’t have to rely on it so darn much. I’m almost flabbergasted that a pitcher with his amount of talent can go to the mound with just two pitches every night-no matter how good they CAN be.
With just two pitches, it’s nearly impossible to beat a good team if they aren’t devastating and located with pinpoint control. His slider was allegedly very, very good at one point, and when he flashed his change last year it wasn’t bad. But at this point, I’m not really enthused with how he looks. Almost every starting pitcher has AT LEAST three pitches that they use ALL the time.
Wow…I predict the overwhelming stench of trolls will be too much to bear. Good night, All. Tomorrow is another chance !
Too true.
Phil HUghes deserved better than this from his teamates. Nice progress from him.
here is a question if you are going to intentionally walk somene why have your reliever who you just brought in do it why not have Phil do it then take him out.
Trisha- Giamby own up to it? do your reaserch. He didn’t wan’t to go to jail and testified.
what about Pettitte? what is your point of view on his issue. He own up to it?…or did they snitch on him
Ramirez is not a superstar?, I know you hate the guy but isn’t Ortiz a superstar?…..
When has anyone even raise the question that a fat guy like ortiz use steroids?…You just hating on him.
That was bloody painful.
Yeah, we don’t know how Joba will do in the rotation but he has to be better than what we’ve got now. Joba is used as the setup man for Mo in close games, you won’t get close games with the shoddy pitching we have.
I love Joba in the pen but a steady arm in the rotation is 10x more important.
The inning from hell is over
I think that they had him stop using the slider at the time out of concern for his arm.
Joba is irrepalceable. who do you want in the 8th?! Bruney is pitching good but its not a lock. How do we know how Joba will do? Its april. Hughes will be 15-7 by year end.
As amazing as Joba is, in the bullpen he’s not irreplaceable, they have managed to do okay without him there while he’s been on leave.
This is getting ugly. The bullpen is not doing the job tonight. You have to overcome the error.
Giambi is not helping. He is not hitting and not fielding. He should have moved to keep Arod’s throw from getting away.
I am surprised that the offense looks so flat tonight. They had some chances against Cabrera and could not capitalize.
nite all.
hopefully Pete reads this thread tonight. If he does, I can’t see how he wouldn’t immediately require registration .
The real fans can’t ignore the trolls and many of the regulars know better than to even show up during games. There will be more trolls than fans soon enough.
Don’t lose sight of April’s goal – stay afloat and around .500. Yanks are right there.
Damon is as reliable as a table setter as Pavano taking a regular turn in the rotation.
Rob – he was 22..big difference huh?
gayle: The more important quesstion is why the heck you intentionally walk Ramon Hernandez
Scott Patterson has pitched 8 innings above AA ball in his life. He sucked in the majors, but for what its worth, Edwar Ramirez did dominate in AAA ball both last year and so far this year.
The bullpen is the least of the Yankees problems. How long is it going to take the Yankees to figure out Giambi sucks and put morgan ensberg in? Same goes for Damon. These guys sucked last year and suck this year. Guess what, its not going to change.
Liriano is coming of major surgery and he’s still can pitch better than Hughe just look at his numbers.
Hughes deserved a better fate. If A Rod throws home, Hughes and the Yankees might have got out of the inning down 2-1. Hopefully the offense will show up now.
Ugh, well that inning is best put in the rearview mirror.
not trying to make any excuses for phil. even though its april and he pitched ok tonight but i mean does it have anything to do with the catchers hes not used to?
MOLINA 6 INNINGS 2 RUNS
POSADA BAD
MOLINA BAD
MOLLER BAD.
“And before I get jumped on by the Hughes-is-god crowd, I don’t think he’s horrible like the Hughes-is-the-devil crowd.
I think he needs to get his fastball back up to 93-94. If he doesnt, he can’t blow it by hitters to strike them out. He definitely had this velocity last year. He was NOT a 90-91mph pitcher last year. When his curve is on, he can be great. But he needs the changeup. What he probably needs more than anything is a splitter. I wonder how hard it would be for him to develop one or if he already has one (I hear he throws 5-7 pitches).
A pitcher that is going to be great will struggle, definitely. But they will also show flashes of greatness and dominance (Lincecum). Hughes did that last year and in the playoffs but has not even come close to showing that so far this year. It’s one thing to be shelled by the Red Sox, but for the Orioles to beat you is horrible.
I know part of this is because POsada is not behind the plate guiding him, but he’s got to make his pitches.”
He ranges from 90-94. He was consistently at 93-94 vs. the Red Sox. Velocity is fine.
I don’t know where his other pitches are – I know he throws a changeup (a pitch he -needs- to have to be successful).
Hughes’ fastball is good. Very good. But he needs the curveball and changeup to be a successful pitcher.
He’s TWENTY ONE years old. Everyone needs to stop expecting 29-year old Johan Santana like starts. Hughes has EIGHT YEARS to reach where Santana is -now-. I have no doubt he’ll be there by 24.
Quick question to all.. keep seeing this registration request.
What does registration solve to prevent trolls from joining?
wayo
anti-mussina: melky is a bust?
H-U-G-H-E-S
*helpful*
Oh my goodness, what was that? *blinks at Moeller*
“How is it that hughes only throws 2 pitches? He cant ever expect to be any good without a slider or a change.”
This is true over the long run. But for the short term phil will be able to give them quality innings with his fastbal and curve.
In order to be a great pitcher – a front line starter he will need that 3rd pitch.
But as long as he has his fastball command and plus curve he’ll be a very good starter.
One thing to keep in mind – Phil came directly from high school and has only had three years of professional baseball.
And one of those three years was last year which became a completely wasted year for him.
Last year was the year he was supposed to spend time in the minors really dialing down a third pitch. But then he got called up unexpectedly and then got hurt.
If you’ve only been out of high school 3 years and one of those years is ruined by injuries it’s impossible to expect a pitcher to have a refined repertoire.
It will come – he’s only 21.
Moeller doesn’t want to go back to Scranton
Hughes is what he is. His fastball is not really a “plus” pitch and his curveball isn’t a “plus” pitch, either. And those are the only two pitches he throws, folks. I have to laugh when shills like SJ talk about waiting until June 1 to make any judgements on the team.
And I was one who really wanted Girardi for the job, but I have to admit he’s been downright awful with his in-game managing.
Chad Moeller looks like a Caucasian Julian Tavarez minus the pocl-marks and crevices.
“April 18th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
not trying to make any excuses for phil. even though its april and he pitched ok tonight but i mean does it have anything to do with the catchers hes not used to?
MOLINA 6 INNINGS 2 RUNS
POSADA BAD
MOLINA BAD
MOLLER BAD.”
No is has to do with blind Yankees fan.
The thing that has backfired on the Yankees is their offense. The Yankees never thought Phil or Ian would be perfect to start the season, or maybe even for the entire season. But they thought that an offense that scored well over 900 runs last season would be able to cover some of the tough starts. So far that hasn’t happened this season. Phil Hughes did pitch more than well enough to win his first start this season, but was rewarded with an ND. The next two starts admittedly poor. This should have netted him at least another ND, and if the Yankees offense had been awake, maybe even a win.
This is what I was afraid of; no one would have the stomach to see this through. It may be that the Yankees don’t make the playoffs for one year. But there has to be patience to let these guys develop, improve, mature. It wasn’t just the Yankees who said Hughes was a high ceiling prospect. It wasn’t just “hype.”
I don’t know how you get an offense going. I thought the 15 runs the other night would do it. Not so much.
Who would have thought our best, most consistent hitters this year have been Chad Moeller, Alberto Gonzalez, Jose Molina, Melky and Hideki??? Baseball’s a funny game. By September, Baltimore will be in last place, the Yanks up near the top with Phil Hughes 14-8 with a 3.8 and A-Rod in the top 5 of all the triple crown categories.
This is just like last year. This team is sleepwalking through these games. Someone needs to wake them up
Down by six still in this one
Phil Hughes isn’t a bust. Fans who think so are just so ignorant, its not worth even debating the subject.
He was much better tonight.
Geez, 7 unearned runs in the 6th and its Hughes’ fault?
Look at the kid. He’s 21 and he has a TON of talent.
They are hitting .150 w/RISP. A third of their lineup is hitting under .200. Their defense is an embarrassment.
That’s Hughes fault?
I’d much rather miss the playoffs this year and develop the young players on this team, than patch it with old, over the hill guys for another first round playoff loss.
There are nights like this in which the team looks very, very old.
That’s why if you are going to go young, the right way to go, go all the way with it.
Its a joke Shelley Duncan is in Scranton and the starting first baseman on this team is hitting under .100 and can’t catch the ball.
Its a bigger joke the guy with the best arm in the AL is an setup guy.
Retooling is what’s needed on this team. Just go all the way with it.
Registration can cut out the lazy trolls
As it is right, it’s hit End, tab to Name, fill in name, Tab, put in a mail, Tab, Tab, make up something to piss people off
After that, it’s just hit End, click on the box, and make up something to piss people off
Only determined trolls want to waste time registering, post to piss people off, get banned/deleted, and repeat the process
I really do not understand what Cashman was thinking with this pitching staff. I said the same thing in the off season but figured Cashman has been in baseball for 20 years maybe he knows more then I do. Mussina was finished last year, was so bad he had to be removed from the rotation. Kennedy had 3 major league starts last year and with the stuff that he has he has to be perfect every time out. That is a lot to ask of a rookie pitcher. I would be ok with Hughes in the rotation if the Yanks had 4 good starters in the rotation with him. The 3 of them are not going to cut it and there starts are killing the bullpen. Cashman didn’t want Santana and that is ok but he needed to get another pitcher then. The Yanks clearly did not have enough pitching going into the season and I dont understand what he was thinking.
Well, last season you needed you needed to wait until the end of July to judge the team as they were under .500 at the All-Satr break and made the playoffs, so an 18 game judgment seems patently unfair.
“yankees fans are starting to realize the reality about young prospects and that is 80% are BUSTS. i can already tell hughes is a bust. kennedy is a serviceable #4 pitcher. Only 2 players seem like quality- joba and cano(hes shown his ability)”
anti-mussina, let me put this flatly – you’re an imbecile. There is no way in hell that you can tell more from the first four games of the season than all of the prospect analysts covering baseball today.
There’s a difference between a ‘prospect’ and what Hughes is doing at 21 in the majors. How many pitchers make it to the majors at 21? Really? Hughes is -already- better than a lot of teams’ #4 pitchers. He is #1 talent, but is DEFINITELY not there yet.
Does anyone disagree that Gardner should be in left and Ensberg or Duncan at 1B?
I mean its hard not to see that Damon and Giambi are looking really bad. I know pitching hasnt been great, but these two dont help offensivly or defensivly.
Phil will be fine but I just think he was brought up to the majors too soon. I think they should seriously consider sending him down to regroup. You can’t cry over spilt milk, get over it, we have the kids and the kids need time to grow.
I don’t mind having blind Yankee faith, it’s what fans, I mean REAL fans do.
Don’t feed the pigs, uh, I meant trolls.
I’ve no issues with a retooling; I got a full life ahead of me to enjoy whatever garden blooms from a solid rebuild
I’ve been afraid of that too, Doreen. That people would be unable to accept that to develop your own pitchers, sometimes you’re going to watch them struggle at times. I think the payoff will be worth it in the long run, but I am afraid that others won’t see the long term big picture. The “not being Santana” only compounds that in some peoples minds. Ack.
I hate to break it to you all, but just because Hughes is young and a Yankee prospect does not mean he will end up being a productive MLB pitcher. Most highly rated prospects end up doing very little, and if Hughes ends up flopping and Kennedy is mediocre (which is what his potential looks like), uh-oh.
“Geez, 7 unearned runs in the 6th and its Hughes’ fault?”
Did he just say 7 unearned. Either he is a blind Yankees fan. Or he is very bad at math.
V
do you actually expect to get through to trolls?
your posts are accurate but will fall on deaf (and dumb) ears
SJ44… WELL SAID…
There are some bad players still playing when they should be overpaid and on the bench.
Team still needs to start hitting and hitting fast.
We can still win this game. I remember we came back from a 10 deficit last season. It can be done. Just chip away.
Go Jeter!!
On Hughes no one can say he pitches badly today. His defense didnt do nothing to help. Hughes has a ton of potential. This is the reason why the Yankees never keep young pitchers becuase fans have no patience. WAKE UP!
mlb you’re the one who talked about people getting caught. I was just correcting you in terms of Giambi. He didn’t have to admit anything, by the way. But he did.
People started suspecting Ortiz when he went from mediocre in Minnesota to super star in Boston. But I really heard it heat up when there was talk earlier in the year about someone who used to work in the Mets clubhouse getting caught dealing and Ortiz being ridiculous enough to come out the very next day and start telling the press that it was possible he had used and didn’t even know about it since he didn’t always know everything in some of the stuff he took. He definitely made himself look like he was guilty and running for cover in case the Mets guy gave him up!
Get your rally caps out. MLB put your rally monkey away.
“This is what I was afraid of; no one would have the stomach to see this through. It may be that the Yankees don’t make the playoffs for one year. But there has to be patience to let these guys develop, improve, mature. It wasn’t just the Yankees who said Hughes was a high ceiling prospect. It wasn’t just “hype.—
Hopefully, the people that make the decisions will stand by them. I have a lot of hope that Hank and Hal will end up being wiser men than their father.
Pete
Damon and Giambi are going to have all of April AT LEAST to prove themselves. Hopefully, Shelley will be called up and given a shot to be the everyday guy at first. However, I don’t see it very likely that Gardner will come up and play left because Matsui is there to fill in if Damon continues to struggle, and the DH would likely be rotated between whoever is too injured to play the field or isn’t playing.
Ip Hits er era.
5.1 8 5 8.82
How is that sj44 does it look like 7 unearned runs to you?
Nice post SJ44.
I just don’t think the line is indicative of how hughes pitched tonight. I thought he was pretty good. I thought however, his curve wasn’t as sharp as I have seen it. I do believe he will be a big time pitcher, just not this year. If he ends up league average I think we should all be happy. He is so young, and we all must remember that.
I don’t think being sent back down to AAA is going to help Phil Hughes. But I do think the question is if he needs to develop that third pitch, how does he do that while trying to win a game. That’s a legitimate question.
“V
do you actually expect to get through to trolls?
your posts are accurate but will fall on deaf (and dumb) ears”
It’s sometimes difficult to tell the difference between true trolls and those who can be ‘fixed’
OMG!!!! Two solid line drive outs
That kind of night for the yanks
Those last two outs should not have been outs.
Pete Said:
Phil Hughes will get tagged with a loss tonight (barring a miracle) and some people will want him out. But there was definite improvement tonight with his fastball command. He threw too many pitches, but he also didn’t much help from his defense.
I remain of the opinion that he will one day be a very, very good starting pitcher. But the Yankees rushed him to the majors last season and they seem OK with the idea of his developing in the big leagues.
That’s fine. Just understand that it’s going to be very difficult for the Yankees to make the playoffs and develop Hughes and Ian Kennedy at the same time. Right now, this is a team with two reliable starters.
He is absolutely right. The Yankee front office wants these kids to grow with the big club, fine, and let’s not go ballistic when the Yanks don’t make the playoffs this year. I am pleased with the movement toward youth, and am more than willing to wait a year or, maybe two, for these guys to grow up and win the World Series 2 or 3 years in a row.
Ack, those two were just bad luck outs.
you have to be kidding me with all these liners getting snared
“There’s a difference between a ‘prospect’ and what Hughes is doing at 21 in the majors. How many pitchers make it to the majors at 21? Really? Hughes is -already- better than a lot of teams’ #4 pitchers. He is #1 talent, but is DEFINITELY not there yet.”
Hughes is doing no better than any other team’s 21 year old pitching prospect at whatever minor league level you want to choose from and have him pitch at the MLB level. Sure he’s struggling like any other guy would do…BECAUSE HE’S NOT ANYTHING SPECIAL. HE’S JUST ANOTHER GUY. He’s been built up and built up and you watch him pitch and think “is this it”? If Hughes and Melky could have gotten Santana, that deal had to have been made.
And to those who say all the Yanks have to do is tread water during April…the ship is beginning to sink. And like last season proved, losing these games now will cost the team later.
Now, you see what’s happening here? They’re really hitting the ball well – right into gloves! You have to think that at some point “luck” will turn around and those hard hit balls will find the holes.
The other thing that keeps me positive is to remember: you’re never as bad as you look when things are going badly, or as good as you look when they’re going well. AND the law of averages will prevail. There may be some older hitters on this team struggling, but there are also some in-their-prime guys who are struggling who will come around.
Christmas — It’s still only April!
“There’s a difference between a ‘prospect’ and what Hughes is doing at 21 in the majors. How many pitchers make it to the majors at 21? Really? Hughes is -already- better than a lot of teams’ #4 pitchers. He is #1 talent, but is DEFINITELY not there yet.”
he was rushed to the majors kid.
If teams could have 27-man rosters, Giambi and Damon would be riding the pine on a daily basis and Brett Gardner added.
If these Yankees are thick in the pennant race in September when rosters are expanded, that’s exactly where Damon and Giambi will be sitting and neither one will see a playoff roster.
Here is the thing with Hughes, I am not concerned. Hughes is not a stubborn loser like Moose or Farnsworth. He is ovbiously open to change, we’ve seen him working with Eiland. I can only see bright things in Hughes future.
Look at it this way: if it weren’t for Phil Hughes’ legendary “composure” and “poise,” he would have given up 10 runs instead of 5. LOL.
Obviously people did not see the great slider he threw to fool Adam Jones before the misplay by A-Rod. The Baltimore telecast shows the pitches thrown and it was obviously different than the curve and specifically said slider. This is the second telecast I’ve seen him hit 93 consistently. I thought the ESPN one was a fluke but this shows that it is going back up. I agree that he needs to throw more sliders and changes but this was a good start that fell apart in this inning. This Baltimore team is bad but guys like Markakis are very good hitters.
Tell me, what other team has had no days off so far? And, the be all end all is that not even the weather has helped them — and I don’t mean it’s been cold. Usually you can count on a couple of rain-outs. No such luck. They played in a monsoon in Kansas City! They’re been rain delays, but the only rainout was opening day, which only served to take away their only day off!
greg – who are you?
Because you sound moronic.
_________________________________
anti-mussina, I am so deeply, deeply offended by your middle finger :snort:
Hughes won’t get better in the minors. He dominated the minors. You don’t get better by facing weaker competition – you get better by facing stronger competition. Any competitor in any sport can tell you that.
I, personally, don’t care if the Yankees miss the playoffs THIS year if it means putting together a core of players that can dominate for a decade. Buying free agents is not going to win the World Series, as every Yankees team since 2001 shows you.
I still have some sort of faith that JD can turn it around, but to me, Giambi is DONE, and has been for quite some time. I also think it’s a crime that Shelley is wasting away in Scranton when he could be up here getting some ABs and experience at first.
Doreen, I disagree…You don’t have time to develop additional pitches while in a MLB rotation. Right now, Hughes is having mental lapses. He’s been beat down by the bad outings, this is the big leagues for a reason, the hitters he’s facing are veterans for the most part and the things he got away with in AAA with minor leaguers will not hold true with the big boys.
Send him down, let him get some much needed ego boosting wins in AAA, reset his mechanics and see what happens. If Phil continues to have subpar outings he may regress rather than progress.
No matter what, I honestly believe that Hughes was rushed up & Cashman knows it.
Not to mention a 2-day “homestand”!
I think sj44 is a blow hard but he’s right bout Hughes
The ship is starting to sink?
It hasn’t even left Cherbourg, much less sighted an iceberg!
You know, it really bothers me when fans think they’re entitled.
Personally, I think it’s more enjoyable to win after you’ve worked hard for it.
CB, If Palmer said that, than I have to sit up and take notice. Still, it disturbs me that he can’t put hitters away – apparently he was nibbling. This signals to me that, despite appearances to the contrary, Phil is not very confident right now. I guess I don’t blame him – he’s used to dominating and now he doesn’t understand why the one he could count on most (his control) has deserted him. You make a lot of good points in that Phil was not supposed to be up in the big leagues even last year…..or at least not until September. You’re right – last year was a wasted year for him. That being said, I’m admit I’m very surprised. I thought, coming off of last September and the ALDS, we’d see a very good Phil (even with bumps in the road) and that simply hasn’t been the case. His velocity has been weird in addition to his lack of command.
Do the Yankees not think he needs a 3rd pitch? I don’t get it.
Folks:
These trolls are two or three dopes posting under different names. Ignore them. They’re either children or drunken Red Sox fans with no lives.
These dopes take more your joy in your misery than when their own team wins. Just ignore them and they will go away. Responding to them only validates their sad existence.
That said, e-mail me any true jackasses and I will ban their ISP address.
“Look at the kid. He’s 21 and he has a TON of talent.”
Bull$$$$.
You say that when that “talent” hasn’t been in evidence. ONE FRIGGIN STRIKEOUT in 6 innings is “talent”? Too many people connected to the Yanks and too many fans emotionally invested in a homegrown prospect will see what they want to see and not what’s going on on the diamond. There just aren’t any flashes of dominance. Hughes may end up a back-end rotation guy, but that’s as good as a bust when they pretty made him untouchable in trade talks.
scorpio –
I guess we agree that it will be difficult to develop his third pitch while facing major league hitters, but disagree that he needs to be sent down. One reason he can’t be sent down: who pitches in NY?
With Johan instead of Phil, we would be in 1st place!
This may be apples and oranges, but keep in mind that many Sox fans were advocating that the Sox play Alex Cora over Pedroia at this time last year. Having patience with Hughes could pay big dividends.
Phew Hughes = dou.che.bag!
Hi SJ44
Hughes has a changeup. I’m not sure why we don’t see it more often.
He doesn’t throw his slider much because sliders are -tough- on young arms.
“Sure he’s struggling like any other guy would do…BECAUSE HE’S NOT ANYTHING SPECIAL. HE’S JUST ANOTHER GUY.”
That’s why scouts raved about him. I suppose you are obviously better than scouts at recognizing talent. Wow after a handful of bad starts, a pitcher is all of a sudden a bust.
“You know, it really bothers me when fans think they’re entitled. ”
Yeaa, that does get annoying
A good ol’ encounter with some Cubs fans should fix that right up, though
“I, personally, don’t care if the Yankees miss the playoffs THIS year if it means putting together a core of players that can dominate for a decade.”
What “core” of players?
Hughes and Kennedy? You have got to be kidding…
Melky? You have got to be kidding….
“With Johan instead of Phil, we would be in 1st place!”
Johan isn’t perfect. He gives up runs. Sometimes lots of runs. He’s solid, but not perfect. He can’t win with miniscule run support.
The difference between first and last place is meaningless at the moment.
hmm horrible pitcher or not Eric Duncan in my score card has 2 HR in SWB
Where is Jose Jalapeno???
I just don’t see how everyone here is so down about hughes. His era is inflated because its early in the season. The law of averages will catch up, and he will have a mid 4 era for the season. May I remind everyone, the season is so young, lets not get too emotional. As for the trolls… the only reason they are here is to gloat because their teams never win, and they hate the yankees for winning.
Phil Hughes doesn’t need to go to AAA.
He just to keep improving each start.
Tonight was an improvement.
If the rest of the team would improve as much as Hughes did tonight with their own games, they would be fine.
Is my memory fading, or was Phil’s curveball much more 12 / 6 last year almost exclusively 2 / 7 this year? They put some very good swings on his curve tonight. It’s still effective, but the sideways break is a lot easier to hit and less of a swing and miss pitch.
Is this by design?
Still I prefer 1st than last!
SJ44
My question is, how does a pitcher, Phil or anyone else, work on an additional pitch at the ML level?
Rob-
“As for the trolls… the only reason they are here is to gloat because their teams never win, and they hate the yankees for winning.”
Yeah the Redsox never win right?
It’s funny how in Red Sox Nation people aren’t panicking over Buccholz sucking but are awfully hard when Hughes pitches badly.
“With Johan instead of Phil, we would be in 1st place!â€
Because the standings in April mean oh-so-much.
“Is my memory fading, or was Phil’s curveball much more 12 / 6 last year almost exclusively 2 / 7 this year? They put some very good swings on his curve tonight. It’s still effective, but the sideways break is a lot easier to hit and less of a swing and miss pitch.
Is this by design?”
I’ve heard 1-7 curve.
Patience is a virtue. Francisco Liriano was awesome, but things didn’t go exactly as planned there either. The kids are coming along, and just like real-life kids, they will take a few spills along the way as they learn to walk and then run. This is a very exciting time to be a Yankee fan.
Bayron -
Who doesn’t??
“My question is, how does a pitcher, Phil or anyone else, work on an additional pitch at the ML level?”
I’m curious about this too. I know CMW has been working on developing other pitches since he came up. How do they manage that with Phil?
This is what happens,when you put all your eggs in one basket (offense).
Well, wait till next year!
WOOHOOO….
LETS GO RANGERS
Wow now pete will ban ip addresses, yeah ok. I havent done or said anything out of the ordinary ban me and we go to court buddy.
I wonder if the trolls will still be here when the Yankees are in the playoffs and the Red Sox are watching from home
V,
Compromise, 1.5 / 7 curve.
Rangers win the series
can we have a miracle in this game?
“Wow now pete will ban ip addresses, yeah ok. I havent done or said anything out of the ordinary ban me and we go to court buddy.”
ROFL!!!!
Court? Court? You know a lawyer who’s willing to sue a private blog for banning you for being an idiot?
“Tonight was an improvement.
If the rest of the team would improve as much as Hughes did tonight with their own games, they would be fine.”
HOw did he improve?
He faced a far worse team and still couldn’t finish off hitters. The only thing noteworthy was throwing first pitch strikes.
But I know, SJ…it’s the weather.
Giambi came to spring training in better shape than in recent years and said he felt great but then again, what else was he expected to say ?
The bottom line is, his bat speed has slowed considerably and it shows. Closely behind him is Damon.
If you are looking at the standings after 18 games, football season is just around the corner for you.
April standings are meaningless.
Doreen,
He can learn up here. In fact, its where he belongs.
What’s he going to learn dominating AAA hitters? Nothing.
You just have to be patient with young players. Each start is a learning experience.
He did not pitch badly tonight. His offense and defense were awful.
Young Yankee fans have no patience. They believe the season is over after 18 games.
If they win the last 2 games of this series, they are back on the bandwagon.
Doreen, these aren’t going to be popular suggestions but you have to work with what the Yanks have.
Igawa
Karstens (is he hurt? not sure)
or
Try Joba in the rotation and move someone to long reliever role.
We all know that had the Yankees pitching not been so pathetic in 07, Hughes would not be in the majors right now.
I think Phil is extremely talented don’t get me wrong. Not a Phil basher.
Phil can be really good some day and he is only 21, but the fact is he should be in the minors now. This outing was 5.1 innings and 5 earned runs with only one K. His velocity is 89-91, without precise control.
I think the Yankees put way too much pressure on him. I’ve been saying for a while that Hughes (and Kennedy), by being rushed, could be damaged. People have hammered me but I think its proving to be true.
Too many in Yankee world just refuse to be objective. Anyone who is automatically called a troll.
“ban me and we go to court buddy”
at least he has a sense of humor.
“Court? Court? You know a lawyer who’s willing to sue a private blog for banning you for being an idiot?”
yeah myself.
Joey, to be fair, the scouts and experts are not raving about Phil now. There have been so many stories about the Phil we are seeing now not being the same pitcher he was in 2006 and even before that. They seem to think that whatever has happened (mechanical issues, health, etc…..), it has diminished the stuff and command that made Phil the top pitching prospect.
How did his mechanics look tonight? I read elsewhere that they looked like the “old” Phil’s mechanics……….
I think i can defend myself. I think.
Ay Doreen, tomorrow is another day. The sun always rises after the darkest hour! Still 144 games left!
When you are the Yankees and you have an opportunity to sign a rarefied pitcher like Johan Santana, you sign Johan Santana. The fact that the 2nd class citizen mets got him just adds insult to injury
“HOw did he improve?” Maybe five great innings before the inning from hell.
Doreen made an important point regarding the Yankee FO gamble on the young guns – that the expectation of SOME offense would be able to cover a lot of the ‘birthing pains’ we would go through early on. It hasn’t happened and the gamble has been exposed.
IPK said after his last start that having a lead early allowed him to pitch with more confidence and be more aggressive. Has Hughes ever had a lead this season?
He has always been in a situtation where the pressure is intense not to give up any runs. I suspect that has to be having an effect.
I object to the ‘Young Yankees fans have no patience’ statement; Rebecca and I are 21-22-ish and we have patience :/
“I wonder if the trolls will still be here when the Yankees are in the playoffs and the Red Sox are watching from home”
Yeah, just like last year…
Let’s see, I think last year, Wang was choking his guts out vs the Indians and Joba was having a panic attack because he saw a few bugs. And, oh yeah, Boston was winning the World Series.
The Snatna-Hughes deal wasn’t just about this year. No one doubted that Santana would be significantly better than Hughes this year. The fact is Hughes makes a lot less, is younger and has a ton of potential. Even if Hughes has an awful year this year, we won’t be able to assess whether the deal was good or not.
Hughes showed promise tonight and was much better. He still has a way to go, but the signs are there.
And I am someone who wanted Santana on the team (but not for Hughes).
“I think i can defend myself. I think.”
how many fingers am I holding up
mlb
Pete didn’t mention anyone by name. Why you think he’s talking about you.
SJ44, how do you know how old or young Yankee fans are? If you think the Yanks will keep Phil around with an 8+ ERA, you’ll be mistaken.
Even Igawa can do better than that.
yankees have good pitcher. I just annoying when they overrate pitchers.
Its***
Wow, people need to stop blowing everything out of proportion with Hughes.
He was better tonight. Ian Kennedy was better in his last start than any of the previous. Hughes will be fine. Kennedy will/is fine. The problem in this pitching staff is Mussina. He has nothing left. If a pitcher needs to be taken out of the rotation, it’s Mussina. This is also why Joba Chamberlain needs to be a starter. The Yankees only have 2 very consistent starters, but if you were able to put another one in there, even as the third, in Chamberlain, that could be a rock solid top 3. And then you have Kennedy whose well on his way, and Hughes who is still having some problems.
But anyway, I still think Hughes will be fine. This was an improvement. If he goes out there next game and gives up 9 earned runs in 3 or 4 innings I’ll say OK, maybe there’s a problem here. But I think he’ll improve even more next start.
Is that Lord Bayron?
Its not whether Phil gets a little better or not if the end result is the same! Its whether you win or lose that counts!
I think you guys are the exception, rather than the rule though. You’re both clearly smart and rational people generally, that puts you way ahead off the bat.
Hey, I take exception to only 21-22 being considered young yankee fans, i’m 33 and i feel young most days.
When you are the Yankees and you have an opportunity to sign a rarefied pitcher like Johan Santana, you sign Johan Santana. The fact that the 2nd class citizen mets got him just adds insult to injury
People might take asinine ideas like this seriously if the people who spouted them actually understood the difference between free agency and a trade.
My feeling is, if he can work on his pitches here, this is where he should be. The only way to learn to face these kind of hitters is to face these kind of hitters. So, in that regard, SJ44, I am with you – no AAA. I was more asking about how, literally, how does a pitcher do it?
I guess the simple answer is, to just throw it; the more you do, the better it will become – or the more your learn what adjustments to make.
Scorpio –
If you think people are screaming about Phil now, what do you imagine they’d do with Igawa? And what about Ian? He’s not been stellar, either, last start notwithstanding. So you’d send both of them down and replace them with Igawa and Joba?
If the Yankees are committed to this, they have to go all the way with it.
the giving the finger stuff is getting old and has to end shortly.
Hopefully, Pete just bans the IP address.
If that doesn’t happen, we have to find other ways to stop it.
If you can’t take the fact the Yankees aren’t going to win every night, express yourself differently than giving the finger.
Unless of course, you can man up and defend yourself if the person you are giving the finger to decides on a face to face meeting.
Actually, Lord Bayron is my e-mail address!
“Maybe five great innings before the inning from hell.”
Joey,
Did you actually watch the ballgame? Did you really feel Hughes was “great” for the first 5 innings? The guy is going to be destroyed by good hitting teams. And a single strikeout?
Doreen & Scorpio,
I’m not a Phil basher either, but he is not ready right now.
Darrell Rasner is 2-0 with 1.0 era with 16k in 17 innings. According to a guy posting on Yankees.com his velocity is 90-92.
The problem the Yankees have is it is more than just Hughes. IPK and Mussina are very iffy right now too. If you want Hughes and Kennedy to get ML experience fine, but I wouldn’t bank on the playoffs.
Mussina is simply a waste any way you cut it.
brandon-
“how many fingers am I holding up”
I don’t know but I know that you can hold the 10 of them up, and than your toes, and that would equal how many loses The “franchise” will have this year.
“He still has a way to go, but the signs are there.”
Again, WHAT SIGNS?
Heck, Cabrera has better “stuff” than Phil Hughes.
“Yeah the Redsox never win right?”
IMHO they don’t because they play in a $$$$ city with the most annoying population base on the face of the earth. It’s comments like the one above that entreat me to go to my happy spot. I just think about Eli passing to Thyree…. ahhhh 18-1.
I assure you that the sox aren’t that dominating of a team. I personally don’t think the yankees are going to miss the playoffs. What’s more, the sox have some big holes and questions concerning their staff, they are two very similar teams. I think the yankee fans need to take a chill pill concerning the starting pitching, and not listen to Michael Kay, who blows everything out of proportion.
How’s Edwar look???
Edwar looks skinny!
Doreen,
You just do it. You make it a point to throw a certain number of changeups in a game.
You get ahead and use it as an out pitch. Probably best to do it the second time around the order.
Its all a process. If folks think the kid is going to have an 8 ERA all year, there is nothing anyone will say tonight to change their minds.
But, those who understand the game, and see the talent the kid has, knows, if he stays healthy, he’s going to be a very good pitcher.
Folks should go back and look at Santana’s numbers when he was Phil’s age.
They are 9-9 after tonight. Hardly a terrible start.
If Hughes can’t get a quality start together in the next 2-3 starts, I think we’re going to need to send him down to get those quality innings that he couldn’t get last year.
He needs to develop that third pitch and he can’t be developing it here in the majors. I want Hughes to be all that he can be.
Send Hughes down. Put Joba in the rotation. Give Hughes a few months down there and bring him back up. Then we throw Joba back into the pen for the last part of the season and Hughes gets back in the rotation.
I really think this is what needs to happen. It’s not like Igawa can’t step in, too. Karstens or Rasner.
There has to be a better solution than what we have now.
“Maybe five great innings before the inning from hell.â€
Joey,
Did you actually watch the ballgame? Did you really feel Hughes was “great†for the first 5 innings? The guy is going to be destroyed by good hitting teams. And a single strikeout?
I’ll admit great is too strong of a word. Good or better than the last outing should work better. Strikeouts are overrated.
sj44- i have never given the middle finger. I make my point and defend it.
The whiners can complain on and on about Hughes, but until the offense starts getting some hits with RISP it’s all pointless.
We all knew going with 2 young starters was gonna be a rough ride. The offense was supposed to help overcome the bad starts.
So blame Hughes all you want, it still goes back to the bats needing to wake up.
Hughes is gonna be fine. He’s still learning. An aging lineup……well that will be what’s makes this a long season.
9-9 is a mediocre start! Better than last year but still very mediocre.
Thanks, SJ44.
Doreen & Abepeter – I don’t think people are screaming about Phil. I’m just saying that he’s not ready for these lineups. He’s pitching in the AL East, the most potent division, and cannot hone his pitches on the fly. We can agree to disgaree. I won’t be surprised if he does get called down nor will I be upset if the Yanks keep him up.
Igawa, Rasner, Karstens are options.
Not sure what the verdict on Kennedy is yet.
Moose will not be going anywhere, he’s just someone we have to live with.
Nothing wrong with making points or even being frustrated.
We don’t expect everybody to be on the same page over everything here.
Being insulting or giving the finger? You can do it if you want but, don’t be surprised if one day someone takes exception to it.
That’s all I am saying.
Bayron
April 18th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Edwar looks skinny!
Comments like these make me mad. If it was Hughe he would have quickly stated how he looks like the next best thing. Why not support edwar Mr. Bayron?
Hughes showed plenty of signs tonight. 5 innings- 1 run, before he tired. His defense betrayed him, and he tired and flamed out in the 6th. It’s a concern that he hasn’t yet shown he can go deep in games, as his pitch count gets to high too quickly.
He’s certainly not a finished product yet, but the signs are definitely there.
When will you guys realize we are in a rebuilding phase. Just relax, sit back, and wait a few years on this. Do you seriously think this team will contend for a title this year? And don’t expect Hank & Hal to blow up calling for heads to roll. Do you actually think they thought this was going to be the year? Think about it. Don’t expect so much. This year and next year is when we break it down and build it back up. Out with the old in with the new. Kinda like the new stadium. Just calm down a watch a little baseball.
what ever happened to Aaron Small? Can Rasner be the “Aaron Small” of 2008
?
Tomorrow night the Yankees face a lefty. At least Giambi will not be in the line-up. Maybe we can get some productions (and defense) from 1st base.
Kennedy looked good in his last start so hopefully that will continue.
Hughes showed improvement tonight, been nice if the vaunted “offense” managed to give him some run support and the defense had their act together.
That being said, I don’t see ANY valid reason why Giambi is still in the line-up. Ensberg brings a better glove to 1st and a better bat to the lineup. Giambi is dead weight. He needs to go. You’d probably have better results from a life-sized cardboard cut-out behind the plate.
We could had easily won this game if only santana was on the mound.
Scorpio -
Yup – agree to disagree on some things.
How is Igawa or Rasner, guys who have pitched worse than Hughes in NY, even though both have more experience are more “ready” than Hughes.
You just have to ride the ups and downs of young pitchers when they start their careers.
The guy gave up 1 run in 5 innings. His defense failed him in the 6th and now he’s not ready?
Way too early for that.
Talk to me after 12 starts. If there isn’t improvement at that time, then you talk about AAA.
Abepeter, what’s your grand plan? You just said Hughes isn’t ready and Mussina is done, and Kennedy is iffy. Maybe they can all be removed from the rotation… Oh wait, the Yankees don’t have anyone to replace them. I agree with you in one aspect, and that’s Mussina. He should be replaced. He doesn’t have the stuff to get the job done. But I don’t see the problem with Ian Kennedy. Yeah, he’s going to lose games. But Ian Kennedy has improved in every one of his starts so far and his last one was quality. What do you want Ian Kennedy to do? Go out and pitch 8 innings and give up no runs? Tell me a major league team that has a 5th starter that does that. If Ian Kennedy can give quality starts, that’s more than you’re going to get out of any 4th or 5th starter you can possibly think of replacing him with.
And as for Phil, what are you going to do with him? Hughes is the 4th starter right now. When you’re 4th starter is pitching and your team scores 2 runs most of the time you’re going to lose no matter who you put in there.
Anyway, saying the Yankees are going to have trouble making the playoffs because of Kennedy and Hughes at this point is just silly. Kennedy has already thrown a great game his last time out, and how can you say you know where he’s going to be two starts from now? You have to assume he’s going to get better and not worse because so far that has been the direction he’s going in. And as for Hughes, you have to see after some more starts.
Another night to remember. Good night to all.
Who says I don’t support Edwar? If you analyze it he actually did a very good job! Hope he does this well all the time! But he is still very skinny!
David- Kennedy and hughe is not the problem. Is the entire rotation.
Why on earth would you send Phil to AAA???
You want him down there dominated AAA lineups and learning nothing he hasn’t already? Or would you rather him learning against the best and taking the lumps that come along with it?
Even if you think he’s awful right now, which I don’t, in the long run the Yanks will be better off with his getting the major league experience.
But if you want to jump off a ledge because of a loss to Baltimore on April 18th, there’s really no talking sense to you anyways I guess.
Anti-mussina-you a character. you funny man. This blog would be wack if it wasn’t for you.
I think the problem is the sketchy offense. But that’s just me.
What exactly is it that this anti-mussina person contributes that is constructive and worthwhile?
Skinny like a jalapeno on a stick.
mlb, you’ve got to be kidding. If Santana was on the mound tonight for the Yankees instead of the Mets, and gave up the 3 earned runs he did for the Mets tonight, he would have been slapped with a loss. Add a few runs to that for the AL and you probably have a similar score.
12 starts? Sure.
Hey, anti-mussina, go away. Seriously. Stop. Leave. Nobody cares. Just go away.
Please.
Thank you.
The more concerning issue from this game wasn’t Hughes – it’s how Giambi and Damon look.
Giambi had a truly terrible game – both at the plate but also in the field.
He just doesn’t look like he has the bat speed right now to hit the ball with authority.
Damon – also just looks extremely old. His bat looks very slow and he’s not hitting the ball with any authority.
Hughes is going to keep getting better.
Giambi and Damon – it’s much less clear. It’s not simply that they look bad at the plate – they look like the game is too fast for them at the plate.
That’s something that may not get better – they both have a significant risk for being on the downslope.
That’s the issue that may be an issue over time this year.
It’s still too early to write either of them off but changes might be needed to make this team more athletic and younger.
David- can I remind you that Santana won cy youngs in the “al” or you did you forget.
mlb you obviously aren’t too good an attorney if you don’t know that you can be banned here on a whim. Lohud is known as the keeper of the press. They have the right to make any rules they want short of breaking the law intentionally, and one is to ban people they choose to ban as long as they are not practicing illegal discrimination in the process.
So grow a brain and maybe go to a Sox forum where you’d be more welcome. Your countrymen will think more of what you have to say there. Promise.
Actually, it’s not surprising that Boston fans want to show up and taunt Yankee fans when they have the opportunity.
I mean, my God, the Red Sox went through 86 years of winning nothing. Whole generations of Sox fans lived and died without ever enjoying the pleasure of winning it all, while at the same time watching the hated Yankees pile up 26 world titles. That kind of torture has bred a psychotic hatred (of the Yanks) that is unmatched anywhere. Even after getting lucky and winning a couple of titles, Sox fans are still obsessed with the Yanks, as is evident here with the comments of some of the poor bastards.
First the Patriots had their guts ripped out trying for immortality in the Super Bowl. And Sox fans will be eating s**t again before they know it.
trisha- if they don’t banned for no apparent reason what reasoning would they have to banned me?
I havent called no one names, use foul language, named religion, or anything that is not under the terms of use from loha.
wow, I don’t know what’s worse tonight: the trolls or the people ready to toss Hughes out with the trash. The season is 18 games old. 18. Do the Red Sox look like some juggernaut running with the division already? Does anyone? A new manager comes in and people expect vastly different results. Like an incredible April. Or an NL type offense, Temper your expectations, folks. It’ll make this rough beginning a little easier to swallow. And maybe sometime by midsummer, some of those expectations will be met.
Part of the joy of this game is watching these young ballplayers grow. Wasn’t it great to watch Melky come back after that horrible experience in Fenway on 05? A lot of people wrote him off then. Bernie Williams took a while to hit his stide. Have patience with Hughes and Kennedy. They’ve both had some strong outings in the not too distant past.
me***
Wow, you guys really took the war out of Edwar!
CB you are 100% correct. I seriously doubt Damon or Giambi play reguraly all season.
Small retired last May
whoops. meant “in ’05″ and “stride”.
CB, good points. Giambi has just been awful. It’s baffling why he is still their first baseman. I think every Yankee fan on planet earth can agree they’d rather see Shelley Duncan or maybe even Ensberg in there at third base. People are complaining how giving Kennedy and Hughes chances to develop can cost the Yankees a playoff spot, but the way I see it, having a guy playing first base who has no chance of improving and is costing you runs and at bats can be more damaging than Hughes and Kennedy. Please, just get Giambi out of there already, it’s getting depressing.
As for Damon, I think he still has a lot to offer. He’s not a problem really in the field and he can steal some bases so I think he should stay in there.
I wouldn’t be suprised, if we see some AJAX or Jose Tabata, eventually this summer. Not a starter, but on the bench, a spark, soon.
Hughes is having growing pains, fine, I can handle that. But I’ve just about had enough with the offense.
Sure it’s early in the season, sure it’s April. But it’s April for other teams too is it not? Why are they hitting and our team is not. And why within our team only the AAA call-ups and “cheap” guys are hitting with the exception of Matsui and Jeter?
I kept hearing back during SP that the offensive guys got bored and it’s way too long because the pitchers needed that time. The SP could have been cut by half for the offense because they were all ready to go. Really???
i think yankees can make the playoff. They just need to add better pitching.
Hey V, I’m with ya man. I have been a Yankee fan since 1964 and have seen a lot of foolishness from CBS ownership until Steinbrenner bought the team in 73. One thing has been especially consistent – when the Yankees spend money like a drunken sailor that usually means years of futility. Years of one and done, or just missing out of the playoffs. Only when they show patience, and work their farm system, do they succeed (like 1976-1981 and 1996-2001).
I agree with Doreen, to a degree. The offense is simply stranding to many RISP. Up until the 6th Hughes kept the Yankees in the game. The offense has shown absolutely no situational hitting, with the exceptions of Matsui and Jeter and Moeller. We’re really missing Molina’s bat from the lineup also, he was hitting very well. Giambi and Damon are simply taking up space.
Regarding the rotation, Hughes looked better tonight, and Kennedy has been looking better as well. We have to look at these guys as being long term investments and try to stay focused on the big picture.
He is still on first cause he makes more money than anybody except for Arod.
I know the answer to this one: the First Amendment freedom of speech only applies to government action, not to private parties. A private party can do as it pleases, banning speech as it sees fit. Many streets in America (Silver Spring, MD for example) are owned by private developers that ban any type of speech, such as signs, voter registrations, etc. If Lohud wanted to ban a person from its blog, it has the right just as a privately owned street has the right to exclude people from entering. First Amendment only applies to the federal, state and local governments.
and better hitting and better fielding and better throwing and better running and ………………
I think everyone is too worried about Hughes. Arod makes one play, at home the score is 2-1 and there are 2 outs in the inning. God forbid that he was taken out for a softly hit grounder. Arod for sure had a play at home. Again, I didn’t think hughes curve was as tight as I’ve seen it before, and think that is why he didn’t strike out anyone. During his last inning he threw a nice change-up that was a good pitch that markakis just put out there. His fastball according to gameday was consistently around 93 the slowest one of the night was pitch in his last inning and was clocked at 90.8 out of the hand. I’m not concerned with his velocity. His control on the left side of the plate was a bit erratic, which meant he couldn’t keep the lefties honest, but nonetheless, his line reads a whole lot worse than he pitched. I think we must all sit back and relax, and see how he does through june before we freak out.
CB hit the nail on the head with Damon and Giambi. There really is minimal chance for any upside with the 2 and more than likely it will just get worse.
I still say that while Posada can’t catch, he should be DHing every day with Matsui in LF.
All I can say is that as soon as he can come back up, Duncan should get a week or so of starts at first. Getting zero production from your 1st base slot will kill a team in this league.
*ST* not SP
baseball blows!
Play Duncan and see what he can do if given a chance! Definitely worth a try!
“I seriously doubt Damon or Giambi play reguraly all season.”
I’m not sure if they will or they won’t. But it’s not a trivial chance that they don’t get their bat speed back.
That’s a concern from this game – you worry about the 35 year olds.
Not the 21 year olds who were considered the best pitching prospect in baseball only i year ago.
Hughes is going to get better. He doesn’t need to be in AAA right now (nor is there any substanstial evidence that Rasner or Igawa will be better).
But right now there are certain players who seem to be playing very slowly.
Just compare the at bats Melky is having vs. Damon.
Cano isn’t getting that many hits but his at bats don’t look that awful anymore. He hit the ball several times tonight very hard but right at people. He also wsn’t swinging wildly at bad pitches.
But Damon and Giambi look slow – and that’s something that might not change.
18 games into the season is not enough time to make any definitive conclusions, especially about Hughes.
But with each passing game when players in their mid to late 30′s look bad – that’s much more of a concern than anything else.
Exam
Now can you explain the Rule Against Perpetuities as it applies to Jason Giambi
“his line reads a whole lot worse than he pitched.”
i will be waiting until you guys actually stop saying this and realize hughe is no good. Ill be waiting.
Frank , I like how you said Giambi and Damon are taking up space, because it’s a good point, it’s almost like you have a 7 man lineup and when their spots come up you have automatic outs. Giambi is about as close to an automatic out as you can physically have being that he can’t run and if he pulls the ball they can throw him out from right field.
And mlb, I would tend to agree with you about the starting pitching. I think it would be a VERY cool move if the Yankees sit Joba Chamberlain out right now because the timing is perfect. Have him train as a starter for a few weeks or however long it takes, and get him into the rotation ASAP. Yeah, I’m well aware that no one knows exactly how Joba is going to be as a starter, but at this point, no major league pitcher can really be worse than Mussina, so it’s worth a try. As for the 8th inning, at this point I’d rather see the Yankees blow leads in the 8th than be out of the game in the 5th.
anti-mussina
“I have another suspicion of phil hughes. i have a feeling that he might be gay.”
wow you’re on ur own on that boat buddy.
mlb I am not saying they are going to ban you, just that they could if they wanted to. I would say that for Pete to ban someone he would easily be able to do it on the “abusive” count – unless of course someone violates any other part of the policy. Abusive could be quantified here by continual posting with the intent of taunting the majority of the posters and thereby ruining their forum enjoyment.
Abusive is a good word in that policy!
I’m sure alot of you complaining about Hughes aren’t really all that knowledgeable about the game. Just take a look at each teams “stud” pitcher right now and then go back and look at their first seasons or two. Might clue you in a little bit.
If you can’t handle the growing pains you better find something else to do for the next season or two. Then when these guys are pitching like aces you come back and jump back on their bandwagons.
You know I have more faith in dellin at this point than i have on The “franchise”
Why is it so hard for some of you too ignore the trolls? By responding to them all you are doing is encouraging them. Ignore them and they’ll move on to something else.
Jimmy27 -
Exam: can you explain the rule against perpetuities?
I used to be able to. Once I passed the Bar I decided to immediately forget I ever knew it!
Go Yankees!
Damon is in another lull to start the season and this time it isn’t because he is out of shape. His bat speed is declining, he seems to have a lot of trouble in working the count, and he isn’t getting on base and setting the table for the rest of the lineup. Maybe it is time to try Melky at the leadoff spot, just to shake things up. From watching Melky you can see him maturing at the plate and seeming to have more of a plan when he is in the batter’s box.
If Johnny continues to hit like this, it really is a detriment to have him in the lineup, much less in the leadoff spot. Damon still has good speed and can swipe a base here and there, but there traditionally isn’t much demand for a $13 million per year Pinch Runner.
“i will be waiting until you guys actually stop saying this and realize hughe is no good. Ill be waiting.”
Fine. And if Hughes pitches up to his potential, will you be back here to acknowledge it?
If you’ve got the guts to denounce him now, are you willing to acknowledge if you’re wrong down the road?
trisha- I understand your point- but I’m just stating my opinions.
I’m not taunting anyone.
Is not my fault we all different opinions.
Have***
CB
We exchanged messages a couple days ago and I just wanted to let you know that you did make me think, and that I concluded that you were more accurate in your observations than I wanted to admit at the time.
can someone tell me how Edwar did tonight I checked out for the Rangers(NEW YORK) game a bit…
Bob -
Actually those knowledgeable about Philip Hughes, such as Jim Palmer, are saying that he comes as advertised. Palmer loved his array of pitches.
We all know it is just a matter of time. And as Pete said, tonight was an improvement. If people don’t get that we rushed these kids to the majors but it doesn’t mean they won’t be great pitchers at some point because they have the goods but still need time to refine their stuff, they don’t deserve to be here to make comments.
FYI, 11% of the season is over.
Let’s face it, Ian Kennedy is our 3rd best starter right now. I’m sure his results will be better tomorrow than Phil’s tonight.
I started a theory a few weeks ago which has Joba dn Phil switching roles. Phil was great in relief last postseason. He doesn’t throw as many types of pitches as Joba. He may be better off with opposing batters seeing him once. Also he would be better in the pen than Moose.
pat m in ct-I’m actually man enough to come back here. I’ve been wrong in the past- and Iam not dead.
but I just don’t believe Phil is all that people are selling him as.
Trisha not anymore-
but i’m pretty sure Giambi is violating it.
Darn my balls itch. I gotta take a shower one of these days.
By the way – why is it that Latroy Hawkins get a complete pass for letting all of those inherited runners score?
Hughes left the game 4-1 after that horrendous play by arod/ giambi.
But then Hawkins got nothing done at all.
How is that inning only on Hughes? He’d thrown 100 pitches by then.
Hawkins did not do his job there at all – he was so bad they brought in Ramirez just up from AAA into the game.
Brandon- edwar did great, no runs a couple of hit. dont ask bayron because all he has to say is that he’s to skinny. and am the troll.
do the math.
anti-mussina,
Hey dude, I like your style. Whatcha’ doin’ later?
CB, becuase nobody has any aspirations of Hawkins being any good.
He may be a nice guy and all, but 90% of his time in MLB he’s been a powderkeg.
jimmy27
I think that class is next year. By the time it ends Giambi will be gone and I will realize I am bad at law. But it was fun actually knowing the answer to a question, kind of like being excited knowing a jeopardy answer.
OK, mlb, that’s cool. Didn’t think you were dead though. I hear what you’re saying about Phil. But I don’t agree and am willing to take the bumps that come with young starters. We’ll see how it turns out.
mlb again I am not saying that you have been or will be fingered as a culprit. But Sox trolls are the same as Justice Potter’s characterization of hard-core pornography – we know them when we see them.
Those are the ones who if they really are disruptive will be adiosed out the door.
hahahaha thats not me
mlb
April 18th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
anti-mussina,
Hey dude, I like your style. Whatcha’ doin’ later?
mlb
April 18th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Darn my balls itch. I gotta take a shower one of these days.
pete check his ip please.
The only players that worry me are Giambi, Damon, Mussina, and Posada, and that’s because at their age they don’t get better.
Girardi has to be smarter about using these guys. Giambi, Damon, and Mussina may very well be finished. I know it is too early to make a decision now, but I hope he isn’t feeling obligated to play them because of the experience and their contracts.
Bring up more of the kids – LETS TAKE A LOOK AT OUR FUTURE.
Jeff NJ, that’s a really interesting idea. The only problem I see with it is if you do that, you’re going to need replacements for Hughes and Mussina if you want to have a very solid rotation. I mean if you only replace Phil and they switch roles, then you really only have one dead spot in the rotation in Mussina which isn’t bad. And I agree with you about Ian Kennedy. I really like him. People forget what he did last year and even in his last start. I think as the season goes on everyone will start to feel that Kennedy will provide a quality start everytime he takes the mound.
The main thing with Joba is to get him ready to enter the rotation. At this point, it doesn’t matter who he would replace, it just matters that they streamline the process of getting him in shape for it and getting him out there as a SP at the earliest possible date. But they should definitely look in to the Joba Phil switch.
mlb,
I’m free tonight, and it would be marvelous to hook up later for some drinks and….?!!
pat m in ct-well am not. I want to win now. not ten years from now.
jimmy 27
He he he!
I’m taking a lot of heart from the positive comments about Phil’s game tonight, but Joel Sherman brought up (on the post-game show) that Phil only had 4 swings and misses all night. Even as a green rookie last year, Phil had very good stuff; with his struggles, he still had an outstanding K to BB ratio. Should we be concerned or is this something we can expect to come in time?
CB- Very good point about Hawkins. We shouldn’t lose sight of his struggles tonight. He was solid on Wednesday night against Boston, but he just didn’t have it nothing tonight. It seems like after he has a good outing, he follows it up with two bad ones. One step forward, two steps back. He needs to show more consistency, or he will see himself being passed by on the bullpen food chain.
Put Phil in the bullpen….yeah that’s ingenious.
My God, when did some of you start following baseball? I’m guessing somewhere around 1996-2000.
Ray,
Appreciated. I’ve said this before but if someone wants to talk about baseball they’re welcome.
If you look at some of the earlier threads here there a Sox fan who is a poster named Dennis.
Dennis is great. We’ve had some interesting back and forths. He told me some interesting things about Manny DelCarment todya.
But he’s very, very good about sticking to substantive baseball issues. In fact he makes it a point not to post during yankee games and after yankee losses because he’s so conscious of not being a negative presnce.
And it works well with Dennis.
So if you want to make substantive comments please do. It’s just that discussions about Hank Steinbrenner, Roger Clemens PED’s, Joba’s fist pumps, Papelbon’s snarls, etc, etc, aren’t substantive comments at all.
All those things do is make antagonisms increase and there’s no reason for that. The Sox and Yankees both have very good organizations – the management and players respect each other.
No reason the fans shouldn’t either.
I completely dislike the idea of Phil in the pen – he’s a starter and whatever scouts say now, he was projected to be an ace. It would take several years of bad performances from Phil for me to reach the desperation point of putting him in the pen to see if he sticks.
I disagree about Hawkins. As I remember it was two bad outings and then five good ones in a row. That’s hardly one step ahead and two steps back.
“J-Dawg–Veintisiete en ’08, Chasing Greatness!
April 18th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
CB- Very good point about Hawkins. We shouldn’t lose sight of his struggles tonight. He was solid on Wednesday night against Boston, but he just didn’t have it nothing tonight”
so what’s going to happened? you still going to boo him anyways right? yeah the guy cant catch a break.
Phil lost that game period-stop making up variables please.
anti-mussina,
If I can find a bar of soap and some Lysol I’ll be ready to party guy!
The posts in this thread is pathetic. Rampant panic and trollish fanboy-ism. There must be a better way to spend a Friday night. Not even out of April and people want to throw the baby out with the bath water. This must be what George Steinbrenner’s box suite was like after every loss back in the eighties. Just pathetic.
Phil is not good for the pen. he is better off as a starter even though not a great one.
Exam
That the first thing they teach you in LS – maybe not anymore
“becuase nobody has any aspirations of Hawkins being any good.”
True.
But it’s equally true that Hughes is not to blame for that whole inning.
And somehow that’s been lost. It’s as if Phil gave up all the runs that inning.
He didn’t. Hawkins didn’t get it done tonight. Ramirez also let an inherited runner score.
I cannot believe any true baseball fan would be screaming for change in the middle of April.
HEY OUT THERE – THIS IS APRIL!!!!!!!!!!
mlb–ten years? Nooo, it’ll be a lot sooner than that. Too many good young arms in the system for it not to happen. just got wake up the older bats or clear the deadwood.
Hey man am gone-too many none baseball savvy fans here good night.
I doubt anyone will love the idea of Phil in the pen, but the bottom line is Joba needs to be a starter and someone needs to take Joba’s role. Right now the Yankees don’t have a reliever with the ability to do so. I think Phil in the pen would be temporary, just like Joba is supposed to be… But then again, Joba would probably replace Mussina so I doubt Phil would leave the rotation.
Clay Bucholz gives me shivers in his tight uni. That’s what I like to call the Sox jerseys. Their uni’s. It’s cute, no?
Last year, Jacoby Ellsbury was a major spark for the Red Sox. I would love to see a young player come up and spark (Tabata). (Jackson).
One more thing. Even pete, Remember phil best friend is losing faith on him that says alot.
Hold your horses! Don’t worry be happy! We win tomorrow! Can’t lose against Brian Burres. Tomorrow everybody gets a hit!
mlb- I don’t disrespect and turn my back on Yankee players. I was just making the point that Hawkins didn’t have anything tonight. As a reliever when you come in with guys on base, your job is to put out the fire. Hawkins was unable to do that as both of the inherited runners scored. But it’s just one game for him, as it is for the team, and maybe he will be better next time out. Nobody can click on all cylinders during every game, these guys are humans, not machines.
4 swings and misses for Hughes the whole game?!?!?!
The fanboys had better be ready for the possibility that Hughes may never be that top-flight starter the Yanks promised us.
Pepitone -
Amen.
But then some people are control freaks, and control freaks do not have the ability to roll with the punches or let things play out for themselves. They need to take charge and set up the “perfect” situation or they really have difficulty handling life!
Whoever said the nobody had aspirations of Hawkins being any good really needs to show the poll of the entire world he or she took. Nobody?
Again, a total need for control. I cannot imagine attempting to speak for anyone but myself when proferring opinions! What a hoot!!!
“Put Phil in the bullpen….yeah that’s ingenious.
My God, when did some of you start following baseball? I’m guessing somewhere around 1996-2000.”
Too funny. And too true.
Pepitone, you want to see the Yankees keep trotting this same team onto the field? You want to see Giambi go out there every day and not be able to play defense and go 0-4? Sorry to break the bad news to you, but Giambi isn’t going to become a defensive asset all of a sudden and be able to be a semi-representable spot in the lineup all of a sudden. And you want to see them trot Mussina out there every five days? A guy who doesn’t have the stuff any more to get out a hitter like Manny Ramirez? Things like that aren’t going to improve. Hughes and Kennedy will, but certain aspects of this team like Giambi and Mussina won’t and need to be changed. It hurts even more when there are viable replacements like Shelley Duncan and Joba Chamberlain available.
what channel is the post game show on.
Hasta pronto!
Poderoso Senor es Don Dinero! Giambi plays whether he hits or not!
mlb now that kind of talk will get you both thrown off.
No post game as far as I can see.
Don’t worry Trish, if they gotta go there’s still nosotros!
Bayron -
If you’re a Yankee fan you’re a friend of mine.
Great posts tonight by SJ44, CB, Doreen, Peter, etc. Thanks for the informative entertainment. Much better than watching Baseball Tonight, though harder on the eyes.
Hooray for improvements from Phil, and Edwar should do fine until teams see him again a few times.
Pete I’m looking for something positive from Hughes, a sign of what he’s been touted as, but I haven’t seen that since he got injured last year aside from a being stellar in relief of Clemens in the ALDS. He has not shown much. If he’s commanding his fastball, then his curve is off. If his curve is on, his fastball is wild. I don’t doubt that he’ll get some of that under control, but I am not convinced he’ll ever be that great. He is always pitching from behind in the count. Ok, he had a couple good innings tonight, but his MO is tons of pitches and lots of 2-0 counts and lack of control. Somebody needs to straighten him out…soon.
I am not worried about Phil or the Yankees. I just don’t see them missing the playoffs.
Definitely a born Yankee fan from good ol’ manhattan and grown up in the Bronx! just writing in from across the sea but I never miss a game!
He actually pitch for the first five innings completely ahead of the count.
Remember, yanks win big tomorrow!
Se fueron???
Yeah, he did do well the first few innings and some plays and shoddy relief work doomed him, but I’m sorry, that guy has to put in a quality appearance. I don’t care who says he’s great (pete, palmer, whoever), let’s see an iota of that greatness and win a game.
“the original SP
April 18th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Yeah, he did do well the first few innings and some plays and shoddy relief work doomed him, but I’m sorry, that guy has to put in a quality appearance. I don’t care who says he’s great (pete, palmer, whoever), let’s see an iota of that greatness and win a game.”
Again it’s april and he is 21. We all knew there were going to be growing pains. It could be a heck of a lot worse. Look at last years cy young winner, sabathia. Hughes’ numbers are far better so far this year. Lets have some perspective… its early in the season yet.
He doesn’t get a free pass cause he’s 21, sorry. The Yanks brought him up to do a job, if he’s not ready to at least be a .500 pitcher, then send him to the minors to grow up.
Plus you can’t just shout out pitchers who suck this year either. Dude, Zito! Ted Lilly, bro! Don’t measure in extremes or I’ll throw Cueto or somebody else into the mix.
“If you can’t handle the growing pains you better find something else to do for the next season or two. Then when these guys are pitching like aces you come back and jump back on their bandwagons.”
Bob, I’m becoming a fan of some of your posts. I am enjoying every second of watching young Phil Hughes develop from game to game. Bumps and bruises included. He is as advertised: a near future bona fide stud.
Those looking for a 21 year old starter who can put up a 1.86 ERA and 0.95 WHIP…go play video games.
Oh he is very ready to be a .500 pitcher, its early yet. He will get his wins. He was league average last year, and one of his strengths historically has been his ability to adjust over the season. I have no doubt he will adjust and get stronger. He has good stuff. Once he combines control with his nasty curve he should be quite alright. Again, don’t expect him to be better than league average this year though.
Wow, the trolls are out in force tonight. Also, good to see the overreaction to the 18th game of the season. It’s April 18, exactly 1/9 of the way through the season. Look at it this way, we are in better shape now then a year ago at this time and we made the playoffs last year with much of the same uncertainty in the rotation, but now we have a much better back end of the bullpen than this time last year.
“Those looking for a 21 year old starter who can put up a 1.86 ERA and 0.95 WHIP…go play video game”
Bingo!
everything is broken.
“Things fall apart; the center cannot hold…
“The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity…
“And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born.”
Oh Brian, Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before the Fall.
Whatever, I’m not looking for a 1.86 ERA, I am looking for league average, so far 0-4 is not league average. I don’t expect great things from him overall this season. But the Yanks can’t afford for him to go 5-14. So if he keeps FAILING then you get somebody else to do the job and have him work out his kinks in triple A.
“Pete I’m looking for something positive from Hughes, a sign of what he’s been touted as, but I haven’t seen that since he got injured last year aside from a being stellar in relief of Clemens in the ALDS. He has not shown much. If he’s commanding his fastball, then his curve is off. If his curve is on, his fastball is wild. I don’t doubt that he’ll get some of that under control, but I am not convinced he’ll ever be that great. He is always pitching from behind in the count. Ok, he had a couple good innings tonight, but his MO is tons of pitches and lots of 2-0 counts and lack of control. Somebody needs to straighten him out…soon.”
d00d, he was ahead of batters almost all game long. A lot of first pitch strikes.
All young pitchers – ALL young pitchers – struggle with high pitch counts. It’s part of the maturing process.
“Whatever, I’m not looking for a 1.86 ERA, I am looking for league average, so far 0-4 is not league average. I don’t expect great things from him overall this season. But the Yanks can’t afford for him to go 5-14. So if he keeps FAILING then you get somebody else to do the job and have him work out his kinks in triple A.”
You judge pitchers on win/loss record? :rofl:
I guarantee you that he will win more games than he will lose this season. When this offense finally gets its act together Hughes will win a lot of games. He just has to keep them in the game. What we saw was 2 bad games, one mediocre game, and one good game. You going to judge him by this? 4 games in april? A little perspective is in order here.
BTW it’s only april. If you are going to judge a season by april then the yankees didn’t make the playoffs the last 15 season, and Baltimore is clearly the best team in the east.
V,
Yeah, I do judge pitchers on their win/loss record (among other things), especially for the Yanks where they will, on average, score you a bunch of runs to work with, he’s not Randy Johnson going 16-16 with the Diamonbacks in 2004.
You’re right, if only the Yanks put up 10 runs tonight in the first 5 innings, he may have gotten a win. The bottom line is he had a bad night. Can you deny that?? Or are you going to blame it on Hawkins? Or Giambi? Or Girardi? Nobody’s to blame except for Hughes and that’s been the case for all of his starts.
If he has to still work things out to become “league average,” then don’t do it anywhere near a major league mound. Pete’s right, there are only a couple reliable starters right now, Wang and Pettitte. And even that is tenuous.
I don’t think this is going to work out. Most of the fans in today’s modern world are immature and can’t handle and grasp that the season has more than 18 games. Talk Radio, The media are the same way in New York and that might add pressure on the Yankees to do something stupid.(Like sending Hughes down early)
Hughes looked shaky all afternoon with his control but it was a better outing than before and I am willing to stick by the kid until he gets it.
I think most of us saw what the kid did to the rangers a year ago and what he did in the playoffs for us when we needed him. He has proven that he can pitch at this level effectively.
Hughes is also known as a slow starter in the minors and I am sure he will pick his game up soon enough.
As for the people counting him out and calling him a bust, I think it’s not worth addressing their comments because they won’t be here when the kid finally succeeds.
i didn’t see the game, but my impression is that Hughes is going to be an excellent pitcher. He’s got good stuff. i’d expect him to improve as the season progresses.
Absolutely heartbreaking.
I 100% believe in Phil Hughes, but it really saddens me to watch him struggle.
“V,
Yeah, I do judge pitchers on their win/loss record (among other things), especially for the Yanks where they will, on average, score you a bunch of runs to work with, he’s not Randy Johnson going 16-16 with the Diamonbacks in 2004.
You’re right, if only the Yanks put up 10 runs tonight in the first 5 innings, he may have gotten a win. The bottom line is he had a bad night. Can you deny that?? Or are you going to blame it on Hawkins? Or Giambi? Or Girardi? Nobody’s to blame except for Hughes and that’s been the case for all of his starts.
If he has to still work things out to become “league average,†then don’t do it anywhere near a major league mound. Pete’s right, there are only a couple reliable starters right now, Wang and Pettitte. And even that is tenuous.”
W/L record is a worthless measure of a pitcher’s worth. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. Worthless.
Hughes looked good when I was watching the first few innings – a lot of weak grounders, weak hacks. Not many swings and misses, but his fastball can be -tough- to hit.
His curveball did not look good. Well, it looked fine, but he had no command over it whatsoever. Batters were just watching it for a ball. He needs that pitch to be successful.
His changeup is MIA – he has a good one, but I haven’t seen it this year. He -needs- to have a changeup if he’s ever going to be an ACE. It doesn’t even have to be a Johan Santana changeup – just a good one.
Hughes had five solid innings. If you doubt that, rewatch the game tomorrow. Not many hard hit balls.
The sixth was bad. He wasn’t great, his defense let him down, and the bullpen let him down.
The offense let him down. Wang was worse on Wednesday than Hughes was today. Wang didn’t take a loss.
“As for the people counting him out and calling him a bust, I think it’s not worth addressing their comments because they won’t be here when the kid finally succeeds.”
The kid may not be here, either.
I don’t blame Hughes for tonight and frankly, I saw improvement.
Was he as good as Johan was in Philly? No. Does that always stick in my craw a bit when I watch him pitch? Yes.
But I saw more out of the kid tonight than I saw out of Mussina last night.
The only problem is he’s facing the Orioles which is one of the least talented offenses in the league. He should beat them.
But at the same token, we should have wiped the floor with Cabrera.
Get Shelley back up here and let’s get some life and activity back in the lineup.
I swear to God, it looks like Giambi, Damon and Matsui have aged 10 years. They do not look happy or excited to be playing the game at all.
jimmy27
You’re right, we learned it in Property. It’s outlining time, should have known that.
The rule prevents the property owner from distributing and controlling her assets for too long a period of time after her death.
Phil Pulsipher
“But I saw more out of the kid tonight than I saw out of Mussina last night.”
Damning with faint praise?
“The rule prevents the property owner from distributing and controlling her assets for too long a period of time after her death.”
We need judges with the onions to apply that rule to legislatively extended copyright (i.e., intellectual property) laws.
Everyone needs to stop talking about Phil. He’s only in the fourth start of the season and he’s the youngest pitcher in the majors.
If you want to rip something on the Yankees, rip this inconsistent offense. We should have put up a ton of runs tonight. But we can’t. We leave men on base every single night in the bunches. Its pathetic. Yes, I know everyone will say “don’t worry, the bats will get hot soon”. Let me put it this way. 11% of the regular season has already passed us by!!! Giambi, Damon and Cano have looked like garbage. I have seen nothing positive from any of them, including that lucky pinch-hit homerun by Cano. I’ll call it lucky because he hasn’t shown us jack since he hit it.
I’m just pissed we can’t even get Phil his first win 18 games into the season. He deserved to get a win tonight, and the Yankee bats once again went cold with RISP.
And one more thing. I want Giambi off this team already. I promise I won’t miss his solo homerun every 10 games. He is a washed up drug addict who deserves to be thrown out of baseball. He came to NY under false pretenses. He can just keep the money and get the hell out of NY.
From our friend at SlidingIntoHome. To those who are trying to criticize Phil Hughes, please read.
Johan Santana: After three starts in 2000 (age 21) Santana was 0-2, with a 9.69 ERA. He was then moved into the bullpen where he also got hit hard finishing the year with a 6.49 ERA. He did start twice more that year, and gave up 3 runs and 6 hits in 5.1 IP in the first and 7 runs on 7 hits in 4.2 IP in the second.
Greg Maddux: Maddux was 1-2 with a 6.53 ERA after 3 starts in 1987 at age 21.
Roger Clemens: Through six starts with Boston in 1984 at 21 Clemens had a 7.13 ERA.
Randy Johnson: After four starts in 1989 at age 24 he was 0-3 and also had a 7.13 ERA.
Curt Schilling: At age 21 Schilling went 0-3 with a 9.82 ERA.
NYPD113th, Are you 5? Seriously everything that you post on here basically has no substance at all. If all you want to do is taunt Yankee fans then just go to the mlb.com boards this isn’t the place.
I do think Pete is right though.
Cashman has mishandled building this team. I said it months ago that going into the season with 3 major question marks in the rotation is a huge mistake.
He had time and money to get another veteran starter and maybe even move on from Mussina in the off season and he chose to be stubborn and a bit foolhardy in my opinion.
He was a petulant child when it was suggested he give up some young talent for the likes of Johan and Haren when they were available.
We should have had no more than one to two major question marks in the rotation.
Having 2 rookies who need to take their lumps and an over the hill vet means 3/5 games we’re in trouble and the bullpen is on red alert.
That is not the way to assemble a roster in my opinion. Especially a roster full of recently re-signed aging vets for massive money.
It’s like putting budget tires on a Bentley.
He thinks he’s cracked the code and this is the way, but I think he’s going to end up parting with the young talent he clutched onto with pride when the season starts to slip.
There is no one in the ownership or the fan community that seriously wanted this to be a rebuilding pull up your bootstraps kind of season.
Everyone here has playoff expectations.
I know there are tons of you who come out and say, you’re more concerned about 2010, but if Hughes and Kennedy flame out, get injured, don’t live up to potential, then you’ve just wasted the careers of an entire team of vets in 2008-09.
I think he gambled too mightily on trying to include the kids and what’s left of Moose in his rotation and it won’t be long before Pete, the Post and Daily News are talking starting pitching trade rumors.
Which gets me back to my off season point. We had a chance to get top flight starting pitching in the off season and we puffed our chests and said damn the stats, the kids will lead us.
Maybe they will.
But I truly think there’s way too many question marks in this rotation for this team to be a consistent winner as constituted.
I just watched the 6th inning his so called terrible inning. 2 of the hits were on mediocre pitches. The third hit was on a pretty good change up, it was more a case of good hitting than bad pitching. He then got a infield pop up on a well placed fastball, then a weak grounder to third. Sorry, but the 5 runs he got charged with are a joke. I personally think girardi should’ve let him get out of his own mess, and bail his teamates out. He was pitching better than hawkins, and probably would’ve gotten out of the inning with less damage done.
how to make the yankees better:
get giambi out of the lineup
get joba into the rotation
BE PATIENT! It’s still April.
eh, let’s face it.
in baseball, nobody knows anything.
i know that giambi, if given an entire season of playing time, won’t crack .240 nor 15 hr’s
Money Blanket, you said it perfectly. Just by making those two simple changes the Yankees can go from a good team to possibly a power house once again. I mean you would be looking at a top 3 of Wang, Pettitte and Joba. No one can honestly think the Red Sox top 3 of Beckett, Dice-K, and Wakefield can honestly compete with that top 3 the Yankees have the option to put out there. I don’t think any American league team can compete with that top 3. It’s amazing how much better it looks with Joba in there than MIKE MUSSINA.
has the past 3 yrs not given u enough reason to be patient? Seriously. If we r 500 on may 1 I’ll be real happy