Greetings from Gate 2
-
- April
- 18
Here we are at LaGuardia, chilling in the USAirways Terminal waiting for a flight to Baltimore. This is my fourth pre-8:30 a.m. flight in the last eight days. I didn’t sign up for this … Oh, wait, I did.
Kyle Farnsworth’s purpose pitch to Manny Ramirez last night is the story of the day in the papers. Nothing sells the rivalry like a little head-hunting.
Here’s what makes me laugh: If you’re going to throw a pitch at somebody, at least be a man and admit it.
“It slipped,” Farnsworth said. “I was trying to throw inside.”
“He just tried to throw 100 miles per hour. He overthrew it and it got away, that’s what I saw,” said Joe Girardi.
Of course. A 97-mph fastball just happened to slip behind the neck of a player the Yankees can’t get out. That happens all the time.
Remember last August when Roger Clemens drilled Toronto’s Alex Rios and got suspended for five games? He didn’t fight the suspension and admitted he was retaliating for the Jays throwing at A-Rod. He also did it right and hit Rios in the back.
Farnsworth threw behind Ramirez’s neck then denied it. Wink, wink, it just slipped. Then Farnsworth had the nerve to say he enjoyed the cheers he received from the fans. Well, at least he finally got some cheers. It took three years.
The Yankees and Red Sox don’t play again until July. I’m sure Manny will be terrified. Just like A-Rod was terrified after the Red Sox hit him on Wednesday.
He may have had PEDs for breakfast, but we miss Clemens. At least he owned up to his actions on the field.
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on Friday, April 18th, 2008 at 7:50 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Pete-
I enjoy reading you blog a lot as it is very informative and up to minute with breaking news.
But tell me why exactly are all of your entries of late seemingly bitter?
So Kyle threw at Manny? Is he going to admit it and get suspended. No way!
I don’t know, I’m starting to warm to Farnsworth if he keeps this 1-2-3 up. I can see myself cheering for him too.
Sox started it on Wed, and if you start hitting out best player you need to be ready for the consequence. Girardi is not gonna give Kyle a measuring tape and tell him exactly how many inches to the shoulder he’s allowed to hit.
Bottom line is I don’t want any player on either team gets hit regardless of how much I despise the Sox. But if they started it first they need to be ready for what they got themselves into.
another mind reader appears !
What a double standard…A-Rod actually gets hit and people say that there was no way the pitcher was trying to hit him on a 3-1 count….and remember HE ACTUALLY GOT HIT WITH THE BALL….Manny ducks out of the way of a fastball and HE WAS DEFINITELY being thrown at…..what a bunch of garbage !
“He may have had PEDs for breakfast, but we miss Clemens. At least he owned up to his actions.”
I’m sorry Pete but I think you might be thinking of Pettite on this one.
As for hitting Manny;nobody wants to see anybody get seriously hurt. However, the Yanks have to show that they will protect their players.
Not for nothing, somebody should actually hit Manny with a ball to show him that his classless acts at the plate will not be tolerated anymore. They shouldn’t be throwing at his head, but planting one on his back or on his backside is just fine by me.
“At least he owned to his actions.”
Not all of them.
@Matt
“However, the Yanks have to show that they will protect their players.”
How was throwing at Manny last night protecting the Yankees?
You don’t “protect” your players by throwing behind somebody’s head. That’s how you get one of your own guys hurt. You hit somebody in the leg or in the back, like Clemens did.
Meanwhile, Don Vito, Manny didn’t duck out of the way of anything, the ball was behind his head. I don’t know if you ever played baseball, but your natural inclination is to step backwards from the plate. Had he done that, he might have been seriously injured.
Here is all I want to know: Will it be OK for A-Rod to get a pitch at his neck the next time he hits two home runs?
Just got back from 3 weeks in Sicily/Malta (beautiful countryside; wonderful history), and I see that nothing has changed between the Sox and Yanks. There’s no doubt in my mind that the Sox throw at ARod (regularly), and it’s obvious that Farnsworth threw at Manny. Manny seemed OK with it, even if it was around his head. If it doesn’t bother Manny, it doesn’t bother me.
I also see that both teams’ young pitchers are somewhere between mediocre and dreadful. Makes the Santana trade look like a lost opportunity (at least for now). I still think that both teams would have gladly dealt the prospects if Santana’s contract wasn’t a primary issue.
Re: Sicliy/Malta ….. if you ever get a chance, give it a try. We’ve made several trips to Europe, and the scenery in Sicily was comparable to Tuscany and the Alps – just spectacular.
They are letting you take a plane? It is only a 2 1/2 hour ride.
And since when did the shoulder blade become the neck? So if that is the case why wasn’t the sox pitcher accused of head hunting when he hit Alex in the shoulder blade?
“Here is all I want to know: Will it be OK for A-Rod to get a pitch at his neck the next time he hits two home runs?”
.
Like that has never happened.
.
Pete, I really am surprised at you. I agree that Kyle was likely trying to throw at him, but can you be 100% sure that he really wanted to throw the ball in the area it ended up ? And come on now, what happens if Kyle comes out and says…”Oh Yea, I threw at him and I almost killed him with a 100 mph fastball ”.....based on him showing his “marbles” for saying that…are YOU going to pay his fine and get out there and pitch while his is serving a suspension ?
If he admits he threw at Manny’s head he is looking at a long suspension.
Arod got hit the night before and nobody said anything about it. He got hit in the upper shoulder area after 4 other pitches were up and in.
Was Aardsma throwing at Arod? No. He was pitching him up and in, the way he is supposed to pitch him, and the pitch got away and he got drilled.
I don’t think Farnsworth was trying to hit Manny in the head. If he was, then he should be suspended for the season because that’s not baseball.
But, if he was trying to pitch in, send a message, however you want to phrase it, there is nothing wrong with that. That’s baseball and it happened the night before and it wasn’t even a story.
Derek Jeter said it best last night, “close doesn’t hurt”.
Manny didn’t get hit and life will go on.
If the Red Sox choose to retailiate, its certainly their option.
Somehow though, I think they got what’s going on and this mini-controversy will die a quiet death.
farnsworth is a known punk who had a reputation as a head hunter before he got here.
once a punk, always a punk.
im sure more than a few yankees were hoping manny would go out there and kick the #$%^ out of him right there on the mound
Brian (Red Sox fan) ....” There’s no doubt in my mind that the Sox throw at ARod (regularly), and it’s obvious that Farnsworth threw at Manny. Manny seemed OK with it, even if it was around his head. If it doesn’t bother Manny, it doesn’t bother me.”....and I am shocked that I am forced to say that I agree with this Red Sox Fan…
Of greater import for today is, who gets the call from Scranton today?
Albie threw 48 pitches yesterday. They need another arm.
Rasner pitched two days ago so, today is his throw day. Probably unlikely that he will get the call.
Igawa? A possibility.
Scott Patterson? He didn’t pitch last night for Scranton. This may be his opportunity to get the callup.
Even if its for one day, its important to these guys. Why? Aside from trying to impress, if you spend one day on a major league roster, you get free health and dental care for the rest of your life.
The advantages of having being a member of the most successful labor union in America.
Mussina will not be accused of being an innings eater any longer. His stubborn demeanor combined with working off an 88 MPH fasball offers nothing to the staff.
For today’s pitcher’s to succeed, they must have a consistent 91-93 fasball to set up other pitches unless they possess the rare quality of a Greg Maddux of knowing how and when to work all of the plate.
The opportunity is now there for Hughes and Kennedy to step up and make the 3-4 rotation spots secure. Mussina is no better than a No. 5 if even that.
i had the misfortune of being in my car when manny hit his second last night and had to endure john sterling’s humiliating concession to Manny Ramirez as Master of the Yankee Universe….puleez…WANDY rodriguez could have hit those 2 meatballs out!
sterling is unlistenable
Pete,
Gotta disagree with something you wrote in your game log yesterday about Albaladejo, where you said he didn’t do his job. I think Jonathan pitched realatively well yesterday, aside from the 2 runs. He’s a young kid and was asked to pitch 3 innings against a tough offense. You really can’t expect him to have totally shut out the Red sox, since he probably hasn’t pitched his last AAA appearance as well.
He showed some toughness yesterday giving the Yankees 3 innings. In fact I’d say the bullpen as a whole was pretty solid in these two games. Ohlendorf gave up only 2 hits on Wednesday, and the hit to Casey was a nice pitch. The two walks were the only knock on him.
Manny also didn’t have a problem with it. Said we threw at their guy so thats what they were doing. SO why does eveyrone else have a problem with it?? Mainly the media?
Agreed, Peter.
Protecting your teammates is part of the game. I’m a Sox fan, and could understand if some retaliation came Boston’s way for A-Rod getting hit. But Farnsworth wasn’t protecting anyone or anything, other than his own image. He’s a neanderthal, and has been in Yankee fans’ collective dog house since he arrived and immediately started choking away leads. What better way to earn some favor with fans than by throwing at the head of the guy no Yankee pitcher can get out?
He’s a clown. An embarrassment.
I enjoy your work, Peter. I always like to get the Yanks fan’s perspective when these teams meet, and your stories/blog are a great resource.
FWIW, I think Farnsy meant to hit him in the back, but the problem is that he doesnt have the control to do it, hence the behind the neck location.
i remember reading a comment from Farnsworth about how he feels like he’s been trying to pinpoint location, especially with his slider, too much and that he’s learned from watching Joba that he should just let it rip.
Is that the reason for his new found success? i doubt it; but if he can keep throwing up zeroes on the board, and jack up his K total, then it just gives Girardi more options late in the game.
do i think he’ll keep it up? no, but i’m not rooting against him to do it, bc that just translates into more yankees wins, which is really the point of playing the games.
and after watching Moose last night, i cant for the life of me understand why he would think he should throw meat BP fastballs to try and challenge Manny behind in the count. throw your pitches in the dirt, hope he chases something out of the K zone, and move on to the next hitter. case closed.
and the way the bullpen has performed in Joba’s absence, when he comes back, i wouldnt even bring him back to the big club… I’d send him to Scranton for a month, let him stretch out his arm now, and bring him up to start in late May/first week of June.
“We hit one of their best players last night,” Ramirez said. “I
guess they wanted to send a message.”
If Farnsworth’s control was that pinpoint (to throw at his head) he wouldn’t be the struggling relief pitcher he is these days.
Julian Tavarez is a known headhunter. He drills people all the time and nobody says anything about it.
Why is there a double standard here?
We have seen Red Sox pitchers drill Yankee hitters for years. No media outrage, its just “good ‘ol fashioned baseball” we are told.
Farnsworth didn’t even hit Manny last night and all this furor.
Like I said, if he intentionally threw at his head, he should be gone. That’s not right.
However, if he was just throwing inside and the ball got away from him, sorry but that’s baseball.
If it is when Red Sox pitchers do it, I see no reason why its different when Yankee pitchers do it.
This is probably an issue where we can all agree to disagree and move on.
Its not worth wasting time discussing it any further.
of course manny’s gonna say it didtn bother him but in fact, he did not even sniff at 2 pitches on the outer half after he got buzzed. it certainly bothered him in that at bat. however in manny’s world, he’d already hit 2 so he was already taking the rest of the night off.
Farnsworth was probably trying to hit Manny in the same spot that Alex got hit. Thats it end of story.
Props to farns, ‘bout time someone stood up for their players on this team.
(Repost from last thread – thought I was here, but I was there.
)
I don’t know, Pete. I’m not a person who likes it when ANY team throws with the intent to hit, or with the “if I hit him, who cares†attitude. I’m guessing if Farnsworth had hit Manny between the shoulders, actually hit him, that would have been okay? But since the ball sailed and ended up behind his head, that wasn’t okay. We’ll never know for sure if Farnsworth was trying to hit Manny, scare Manny (worse, if it WAS a head-shot), or brush him away from the plate.
I read where Farnsworth was pleased with the cheers; well, I guess he’s desperate for those.
Derek Jeter didn’t seem to have a problem: The quote in the Star Ledger: “Close doesn’t hurt. When you get it it hurts. (Rodriguez) got hit. That wasn’t a big question (Wednesday). So I really don’t think it’s that big a story, Manny almost getting hit.â€
Manny Ramirez seems to put things in a kind of perspective, as well: “Well, you know, we hit one of the best players (Alex Rodriguez) last night, and I guess they wanted to send a message that they needed to back up the player. They did.â€
Now, one for one. Can this please be over????
However, the Star Ledger did go on to say that although the fans seemed pleased with Farnsworth’s actions, he didn’t “earn points†in the clubhouse, probably because it wouldn’t do any good in the long run – perhaps giving Ramirez even more motivation (as if he needs it) to do well against the Yankees. The back-up for this statement was Mussina’s statement that if you make a mistake, of course Ramirez is going to hit it.
I also don’t think calling Mussina a coward, as some did here, is fair. He doesn’t like throwing AT people. I happen to agree with that. However, I do agree he needs to be more aggressive pitching inside.
I know I’m rambling here. Sorry for that. To me, all these so-called “purpose pitches†ruin the game. It’s a distraction. Yet I do realize that for the most part, the Yankees are on the receiving end, with the opposing team usually getting one free shot with the Yankees risking ejections and suspensions if they try to “retaliate.†So, the Yankees took the first shot last night. It’s a condundrum for me: I don’t want the Yankees to be patsies, with their players being targets for every other team if they are hitting well. But I don’t like this game – tit for tat. Maybe if they changed the rules so that if a player gets hit, his pitcher comes in next inning and plunks a guy (softly) – one for one – and it’s over. No carry over into another game or another series. The teams take care of it, the umpires don’t get involved.
I am surprised, if Farnsworth was throwing at Manny’s head, that the umpire did not eject Farnsworth.
Again, sorry for the random sequencing of this post.
SJ is spot on in this situation. Kyle was obviously trying to pitch Manny inside and make him uncomfortable considering he has owned us this season. When you throw up and in it’s easy for the ball to get away and go further up and in than intended. Kyle had a good idea but he had poor execution; if you throw up and in like that you have to make sure you aren’t going to kill someone.
Pete nobody including Farnsworth, wants to see another player get hit in the head no matter what team he plays for. It seems to me Pete that you have a bias towards certain players (Farns, A-rod, Igawa) and that you take any chance to rip into them. I’m not sure why but it’s very apparent whenever you write about these players.
I have never read a more unprofessional columnist in my life. You’re an excellent reporter, but when you offer your opinion, you come across with such bitterness. Stick to reporting. You can’t be all things to all people.
Farnsy earned some brownie points last night.
But he still scares me
I really don’t get the outrage. Alex, Jeter constantly go up to the plate with a huge bulls eye on them. No one says a word. But Farnsworth’s pitch slips and doesn’t even hit Manny, and it is the story of the day. I guess thats what happens when there is nothing else to write about.
if farnsworth had nailed manny in the thigh or dropped him with a heater behind the knees, id be the 1st one standing to cheer him.
but typical for a guy like farnsworth, he’s gotta throw behind a guy’s head. if you take the yanks-sox rivalry out of it, everyone knows its wrong to throw behind a guy’s head anytime. its a very high percentage that you nail the guy in the head that way because of the natural tendency to back up. manny showed great reflexes by recognizing the track and not backing up. but its a known thing that you never throw behind a guys head, its usually considered an attemp to injure. throw in farnsworth’s rep and the rivalry and its really out of line.
Moose’s problem is not solely velocity. His problem is, the pitching patterns he has had for years no longer work.
Mainly because his velocity, and more importantly his command, aren’t what they used to be.
You can lose velocity if you still have command. That’s how guys like Jamie Moyer, Greg Maddox and others are still able to pitch.
We saw a great example of this with Curt Schilling last year. His velocity was down to 86-88 in most of his starts. Yet, he was effective because he still had command and he worked both halves of the plate. That’s what Moose has to do or he is cooked.
He has always pitched away and up and down in the strikezone. He can no longer do that and be effective on a consistent basis. Basically, the pitching patterns he has had for almost 20 years are now obsolete for him. That’s going to be a tough adjustment for him to make.
The HR’s last night, while loud, were not Moose’s downfall. Hitting Ellsbury twice is what killed him.
Why? Because it makes him doubt changing his ways. Instead of coming in more, he says to himself, “I can’t pitch inside so I have to go back to my usual patterns”.
A guy like Manny, a great hitter who knows Moose’s patterns, knows this and doesn’t even bother protecting the inner half of the plate.
You give up half the plate to a guy like Manny, you are done.
If Moose is going to survive this season, he is going to have to change his pitching patterns.
If he can’t or won’t do it, he has no chance of lasting in the rotation and the Yankees are in big, big trouble.
Arod gets hit just below his head and that’s OK, Manny gets brushed back off the plate and that’s terrible? Pete, go work for your beloved Red Sox.
And lets not forget a few years back when everyone knew that Colon hit Alex in the back during the playoffs. That killed him, it totally took him out of the series couldn’t hit worth anything. But I don’t recall anyone crying about that.
SJ44 –
Is it really true – one day in the bigs and free dental and medical for life? Nice work if you can get it! No wonder many of them have such nice teeth.
If Patterson is brought up, will he be used as a long-man? Is that his best usage? (Usage????)
Someone mentioned last night that Andy left the team to deal with a death in the family, is this true?
Pete has dubbed himself the judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to the life of Kyle Farnsworth.
Farns could throw 9 straight no-hit innings and Pete would still call him a bum. But not to his face.
Doreen that is sure a nice benefit!! Geez I pay 200 a month for my medical plan, and it is the cheap one!, and I don’t get dental.
Doreen,
A couple of points. I read the Star Ledger piece this morning.
Unless Price has some off the record comments re: whether or not Farnsworth scored “points” in the locker room, using Mussina as “proof” that he didn’t is weak.
To ask a guy who will never throw inside about it, doesn’t tell an accurate story.
Now, if other players told him that, and wanted if off the record, that’s a different deal.
However, the story was written as Farnsworth not scoring points in the locker room (meaning with everybody in there) and the “proof” he is using is talking to a guy who didn’t hit anybody even when two of his own teammates were hit (Soriano and Jeter) and taken to the hospital after being drilled by Pedro Martinez several years ago.
Not exactly CSI stuff when determining reaction of Farnsworth’s teammates on the pitch.
I thought Jeter’s comments were pretty telling. Its not like he talks about this stuff too much. It sounded like he wasn’t happy with Arod getting hit and didn’t have a problem with the pitch.
For a guy who would rather gargle with poison than talk about anything even remotely controversial, his comments were pretty telling to me.
Its over now and its time to move on to more important things. Like getting a big start from Phil Hughes tonight.
“What a double standard…A-Rod actually gets hit and people say that there was no way the pitcher was trying to hit him on a 3-1 count….and remember HE ACTUALLY GOT HIT WITH THE BALL”
i dont see why this seems to be so difficult to grasp, but the distincion is if you are going to hit a player, you dont hit him in the head. arod got hit wednesday, but not in the head. the pitch wasnt near his head. so quit your whiny “but aroooood got hit” becasue pete was not arguing that manny shouldnt have been hit. the fact that the ball missed manny’s head (barely) is not even that important.
iv been pretty down on moose but last night wasnt what scares me so much about moose, last night he didnt have control and he was leaving tons of pitches fat in the middle of the plate.
what his problem usually is is his lack of an out pitch. he gets two strikes and then the batter just hangs around in the at bat until moose has to come to him and moose has nothing good enough to put the guy away.
i expect he should have better control most nights than last night, but the basic problems are only getting worse. im really hoping that the horne injury isnt bad, b/c we are going to need someone by the time it gets warm.
Let’s all praise Roger Clemens for his honesty!
Patrick and SJ …. when a ML pitcher throws a ball behind a batter’s head, it is considered to be crossing the line. None of us can deduce how much Farnsworth missed by, but a fast ball just behind a batter’s head is in his “fall-back” zone …. it is the most dangerous pitch. But, as I posted before, Manny seemed OK with it.
A sidebar ….. Ortiz and Manny are both very good at getting out of the way of close pitches. They are both thrown at more than you think, but don’t get frozen by inside pitches like ARod and (especially) Jeter. They “slip” inside pitches like a boxer avoids punches. Hence, fewer HBPs.
Kyle’s pitch was further from Manny’s head than the pitch that hit A-rod. If you remember, Alex got hit in his upper shoulder area.
Doreen,
Yes. A few years ago, Andy Phillips and his wife were going through a rough pregnency. The Yankees called him up (his first time in the bigs after being a career minor leaguer) so he could get those benefits.
Pretty classy thing to do.
If Patterson does get the call today, it will probably be only for a few days.
That means he will pitch in whatever role they throw him in. He will not have a specific spot in the bullpen.
“Ortiz and Manny are both very good at getting out of the way of close pitches.”
Oh God here comes this argument again… Seriously go back to Sicily and stay there.
Right, own up to your action and be suspended. No Joba, bullpen is a mess. Yeah own up and get suspended, nice choice, real nice. Think before you write.
Pete, I love your site, but your personal dislike for certain players (arod, farnsworth) makes you come off a tad bitter. You go overboard proclaiming your sentiments, ala Mad Dog.
Also, no one cares about bruce springsteen. Please stop wasting the bandwith.
SJ44—
You’re on point. Price didn’t really back up his statement about scoring points. And for Jeter to choose to say something does speak volumes.
It seemed to me that Price didn’t like the move, but since the quotes from Manny and Jeter didn’t condemn Farnsworth, he had to go elsewhere.
Phil Hughes has a big game tonight, for himself. He’s got to last at least 6 innings, as well are all aware, to give the relief guys some relief!
At least this is not a huge trip, just down to Baltimore, and there should be lots of Yankees fans in attendance, as usual. Jennifer, you’re going this weekend, right? How many games?
adam yeah all hail Roger! He tells the truth on that, but missremembers everything else. :lol
Brian- Please ortiz doesn’t get thrown at inside. In years past he could sit up there in a rocking chair. He has been hit 23 times in his career!! He hangs all over the plate, just everyone is afraid to throw inside to him.
Doreen yep Saturday and Sunday. I leave tomorrow morning.
SJ44 –
That was awfully thoughtful of the Yankees to do that for Phillips.
And const –
Some of us here do like Springsteen, but in any case, most of us realize that Pete practically idolizes him – and it’s his blog. If you don’t like the Springsteen stuff, just ignore it.
I have to go home and pack tonight, I’ll probably pack enough for a week.
I never know how to pack.
sj are you sure, I thought he has already been up. If not that is a very nice thing to do.
Jennifer –
You and me both! I always need to pack enough clothes so I have a choice! Drives my husband nuts, but I tell him, how do I know on Thursday what I’ll want to wear on Saturday????? He doesn’t get it. And add in warm weather during the day, but cooler weather at night, and well, it’s a nightmare!!! Good luck!
sj I just looked for an article she was sick in 2006, he was up in the majors in 2004.
Jennifer –
Re: packing—you and me both! I tell my husband, how do I know on Thursday what I’ll want to wear on Saturday??? He doesn’t get it, but I need clothing choices!!! Add in warm weather during the day and cooler weather at night, and packing becomes a real nightmare.
Anyway, good luck and have fun!
If winning fans over is what Kyle’s looking for then he should focus on consistently pitching well, not hitting a guy for doing his job—in APRIL no less. Jeez.
I thought they had a baby a few years before she got sick, with cancer if I remember correctly?
Jennifer,
Re: Phillips? The first time he was called up was when he needed those benefits. The Yankees also had a need at the time but, always passed him over.
I remember Ken Singleton talking about how few teams would have done that for a career minor league player and it made me always remember that situation. Mainly because, when an ex-ballplayer talks about it, you realize how rare it is.
Jennifer – I will agree that ARod gets thrown at much more than Ortiz – but Ortiz gets a fair amount of brushbacks as well.
Ortiz is a pretty popular player in the league – I wonder if that’s more of a factor than everyone being “afraid to throw inside to him.”
But ARod gets thrown at a lot – no question.
She was sick in 2006. This was during her pregnancy and I believe it was in 2004.
Well, the post-master or whatever, doesn’t like me this morning – two posts never materialized.
Jennifer—
Good luck packing and have a great time. I totally relate to the packing dilemma.
im a huge, lifetime yankees fan for 40+ so i say this nicely…
some of you guys have to take off those pinstriped glasses….
A)throwing behind a guy’s head is never acceptable. period. it does not compare to hitting a guy anywhere below the shoulders in any way.
B) Farnsworth is known thoughout major league baseball as a punk and a head case, and is hated by many of his former teammates, and i would guess many of his current ones too.
so i would be a little carefull before i jumped on the farnsy bandwagon.
SJ44,
That’s what I remember too. It was his first chance in the big leagues. Then a few years later she gets sick with cancer and then last year when he seemed sure to win a spot, he had to miss most of spring training when his mother was hurt really bad in a car accident and Josh Phelps got the spot instead. I had forgotten all about Phelps until now. Andy’s had some bad luck.
I also remember Proctor having to get some time off when his newborn had to have heart surgery, and the Yankees did the same as they are doing with Chamberlin, told him to take as much time as he needed.
For all the bashing they receive as being the ‘evil empire’ they sure do a lot of good by their players IMO.
so let me get this straight its all right to hit someone in the shoulders but not all right to throw at their head. where is the head resting on? His knees? come on enough already like these guys have pinpoint control. give me a break they were both thrown at. and both throws were near the head
i dont think its ever right to throw at a guy but when it happens, just keep the retaliation below the shoulders, thats all. i repeat… it is NEVER okay to throw behind the head.
i actually missed the throw at manny. i don’t remember what i was doing but i wasn’t paying attention to the start of that inning, i tuned in during Youkilis’ at bat. i’ll look for a clip of it before making my own call, but i gotta say i’m tired of this crap. yankees get hit ALL THE TIM
i actually missed the throw at manny. i don’t remember what i was doing but i wasn’t paying attention to the start of that inning, i tuned in during Youkilis’ at bat. i’ll look for a clip of it before making my own call, but i gotta say i’m tired of this crap. yankees get hit ALL THE TIME and it’s perfectly ok. a Yankee throws NEAR a guy and the media makes a federal case about it (actually i shouldn’t use that expression because they actually do make federal cases about baseball issues these days.) Ever think that maybe they’re not trying to hit guys in the head, but just throw behind their head to send the message rather than plunking them straight up and having a guy on base? how is that worse than hitting a guy in the middle of his back, or in the shoulders or his chest?
sorry about that double post kind of thing, my browser freaked out.
theres a difference between rooting for your team and forgetting basic rules of sports like never intentionally injure or wrecklessly cause injury to others.
i think the yankees should be pitching inside, and yes occasionally hitting red sox batters when the sox pitchers have been throwing at yankees.
i find myself screaming at yankees pitchers on tv to throw at manny’s knees just to make him move off the plate.
but dont confuse that with backing a punk like farnsworth for throwing behind a guy’s head. its not the same.
my impression – and i was at the game so i didn’t see a replay – was that the pitch sailed well above Manny’s head as much as behind it. Manny seemed to be able to get out of the way easy enough, and didn’t get hit, so it seemed OK from the stands. I believe reasonably above the head is acceptable in brushback pitch ethics – directly behind the head, as various people have said, is not.
of course Farnsworth’s control is unreliable, so motive is another issue. but it’s typical of players to use that verbiage after such incidents, so Pete’s whining about Farnsworth’s postgame comments is weird.
i can’t trust the beat writers to describe it accurately – is there a video somewhere? i’d like to judge it for myself.
“He may have had PEDs for breakfast, but we miss Clemens. At least he owned to his actions.”
Speak for yourself, Peter. If anyone in sports represents all that is deceitful and pridefully ignorant, it is Roger Clemens. And I don’t miss him.
Man, what is your problem with Farnsworth? What did he every do to you? If Joba was the one who had a 98 MPH fastball slip, would you be saying the same thing? The answer is no:
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2007/08/30/torre-on-joba-no-message-was-sent-but/
Could you go a week without posting an article with some snide comment about Farnsworth? Please?
i just looked at the video of the throw at manny a few times and Aardsma’s hitting of A-Rod the other night. both pitches were in pretty much the exact spot, except Aardsma’s hit Alex’s shoulders, Farnsworth’s went behind Manny’s shoulders. It wasn’t so much behind his head as it was his shoulders. Of course it was evil and stupid and wreckless though because a Yankee did it to a Red Sox. Yeah i understand that it’s risky to do that because it could miss and still hit him in the head. but oh hey guess what? I didn’t know David Aardsma was a control wizard and that there is no chance his throw at Alex’s shoulders could’ve missed too, and hit Alex in the head.
SJ –
“Was Aardsma throwing at Arod? No. He was pitching him up and in, the way he is supposed to pitch him, and the pitch got away and he got drilled.”
I can’t believe you continue to stand by this. For all the valuable insight you provide, you should know better.
You’re being ignorant on this one. If you Tivo’d the game – go back and watch it again. What was the game situation? What was Aardsma’s role in that game at that time? Who was batting behind Arod and what was his BA? What bases were open at that time? You think about those things and then tell me again that you think Aardsma’s pitch “slipped”.
Good for Farnsworth for retaliating – bad for him for throwing behind Manny’s head.
Come on, man.
george
It wasn’t near his head. I’m sure there is video somewhere. My co-worker just asked me about it, said it was thrown at his head, I corrected him. It was at his shoulder blade. The same spot Alex got hit.
Paul Barry—
I just read that link; seemed to me that Pete was questioning Joba’s motives there, as well. He was a little “nicer” about it, but his basic dislike of the tactic is present, I thought.
Tell me all you Rocket Scientists out there,,,exactly how much do you have to slip WHILE TRYING and SUCCEEDING to actually hit someone in the middle of the back, to make a mistake and hit them in the head ?...Figure it out…you are throwing a baseball 90-100MPH towards a target 60 feet away …. Every time a batter gets hit above the waist, he was just the smallest of a fraction of an inch of a slip of the grip of the ball to getting one in the ear….so don’t give me this crap that when A-Rod got HIT in the shoulder blade, that was any less dangerous than Manny having one sail behind his head….and again, I don’t know HOW this is lost on most of you….A-ROD ACTUALLY WAS hit with the ball…Which guy is in more pain after the pitch ? A-Rod getting hit,,,or Manny having to duck ? This is the stupidest of double standards…..the only way we are EVEN with Boston and their pitching staff is when we ACTUALLY HIT one of their guys…It is silly…Their pitcher supposedly ( nice BOSTON “take” on this ) has NO INTENT and hits A-Rod and Farnsworth is the devil himself and misses and it is BOSTON that owes us one ? Totally stupid argument. This whole hitting people and throwing at people is garbage anyhow. The team that strikes first ( almost ALWAYS this is BOSTON ) has the advantage and they take it ALL THE TIME ! Hit a Yankee, play it off like it was nothing, but then the benches many of the time get warned, then IF a Yankee throws one anywhere near a Boston player….or ( gasp ! ) actually has the “rocks” to actually retaliate,,,then eject the Yankee Manager, Eject the pitcher, fines, suspensions…OFF WITH THEIR HEADS ! Since the Yankees will always have infinitely more class than the BoSux, we won’t ever do what we should which is to take the PunkSox approach to this whole thing and “HIT SOMEONE FIRST and field questions later”
There is a video of the pitch to manny on the yankees website.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080418&content_id=2545445&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy
there is a tiny little screen on the right that shows it but you can see it bigger if you click the link to it under the headline.
looking forward, i’m excited about phil and especially kennedy’s starts v the o’s. i added ian to my fantasy team, i think he breaks out this time around and takes control of the game.
By the way, no one here should be surprised at Gammons’ reaction to all this on Mike and Mike this am. Pathetic perception with once again no objectivity. Never any mention of a possible retaliation for Arod’s plunking, but instead reference to the fact that Manny had hit 2 homers in the game, so he was being headhunted for his game accomplishments.
i have yet to hear of anyone outside of this blog defend farnsworth.
not surprised at all steve. this has been going on for years. the Red Sox, and last year even the Blue Jays can do whatever they want to hurt the Yankees no questions asked, but god forbid the Yankees do anything to anyone else. The media gets so unbelievably biased against the Yankees in these situations it’s sickening. Roger getting suspended for FIVE games for hitting Rios last season was the most ridiculous thing i’ve ever heard. The blue jays hit Alex like every other game last year and it was perfectly okay each time.
As Manny-Being-Manny said, we hit one of their best players last night (A-Rod right in the back), and (I’m sure) Fonsy was trying to retaliate in the same spot (middle of Manny-Being-Manny’s back) and the ball slipped. You know Fonsy definitely has control problems anyway. BTW sawxx fans, in case you hadn’t noticed Joe Girardi’s Yankees are not Joe Torre-like in their approach.
I don’t want to casually throw around statements like “Moose is done”, because he showed last year that he could be effective when he has command of his pitches.
What I saw yesterday was that several times he either missed his spot over the middle (like to Manny) or he hung batting practice breaking balls up in the zone. He got away with a couple of them and a couple he didn’t….
Regardless of the drama he causes for the team when he is on the mound, right now he is needed as a 5th starter. From what others have said there are other options but really is Igawa or some other minor leaguer a better option?
I truly believe this team needs another starter. I think this Moose/Hughes/IPK thing is not going to work this season.
I’m not talking a front line starter here, just someone who can pitch innings.
For all the nights we get that trio into the 6th, there will be just as many nights that they don’t make it out of the 3rd.
Mussina is getting by with absolute slop. I honestly can’t remember watching a pitcher with the lump in my throat I have when I watch him. The wheels always seem to be ready to come off and when he gets out of an inning, it’s like it’s an amazing stroke of luck.
His whole demeanor on the mound is defeatist. He’s fighting his fate in front of our eyes and frankly, it’s tough to watch him battle it.
Hughes and Kennedy are young and they’ll have their growing pains. I understand this.
But we need 3 solid starters. Again, I’m not saying we need another ace. Just a dependable starter.
A guy like Blanton from Oakland sure would look nice penciled into the 3 spot of this rotation, but Beane would hold us up for the entire farm system.
I’m sure there’s no starting pitching available though so it’s a moot point.
But it gets back to my bigger concerns about how Cashman could have thought going into this season with Mussina and essentially 2 rookies with innings limits in his rotation was a good idea.
The majority of the rotation has serious baggage which taxes the bullpen and also taxes Wang and Pettite because they now have to be perfect every time out because of the inconsistency of the other starters.
I don’t have a good feeling about what’s going to happen with Mussina. You can see his struggling wearing on him when he pitches and I’m not sure how he’s going to make through an entire season with that much stress, angst and doubt.
Y’s Guy –
That’s pretty much because outside of the Yankee Universe, no one likes the Yankees and are very quick to make judgment on them. (See, Joba’s fist punch. Another situation where it’s okay for Papelbon or KRod or whoever else to get overly excited on the mound, but not for a “classy” Yankee.)
Frankly, when a team sets themselves apart, as the Yankees do, they are open to a lot of criticism when they don’t adhere to what other people see as their “standards.” Human nature, people like to knock other people off their pedestals, and relish in it.
Y’s Guy
And you’re not going to either. It’s not so much about defending Farnsworth in my opinion as it is showing that it is a total, total double standard. the media is so dead sure that he threw at him on purpose and it’s so awful of him to have thrown behind his head (really his shoulders if you watch the video, but head sounds better so that’s what it’s become in the news) they take it as total fact when Aardsma says he didn’t mean to hit A-Rod, which was at the same level as the pitch to Manny but ACTUALLY HIT A-Rod. There were no warnings after that pitch. Hell people barely talked about it. What i’m having trouble figuring out is why it was okay and not a big deal for Aardsma to hit Alex in the shoulders, but it’s the most irresponsible, wreckless and horrible thing to do in a baseball game when Farnsworth throws behind Manny’s shoulders.
And what I mean by the Yankees setting themselves apart is their winning history. (“Damn Yankees.”)
Derek Jeter defended Farnsworth in the post-game last night.
What Farnsworth did last night was not indefensible. Really, that’s when the talk (like Gammons silly rant this morning) gets nuts.
If the umpire thought Farnsworth was throwing at Manny’s head, he has the power to eject him on the spot. Instead, he issued a warning to both teams.
Let’s see what happens after the umpire files his report. If he thinks Farnsworth was throwing at his head, it will be noted in his report and he will be suspended.
If he thinks it was just a purpose pitch that got away, it will be noted and he won’t be suspended.
At this point in Gammons career, he really should refrain from talking about the Red Sox and Yankees. Its not possible for him to be impartial anymore. He’s too much of a Red Sox shill.
That’s ok, as long as you aren’t trying to sell yourself as giving “objective analysis”. He tries to do just that these days and everybody sees throw the charade.
There is no reason for Kyle Farnsworth to be suspended. None.
In the grand scheme of things, its a non-issue.
eitherway, purpose pitches need to stay much, much lower than the shoulders. Like Pedro Martinez used to say, he would “drill guys in the ass” (lol. poor choice of words)
The problem is, there was no viable option to add another starter in the off-season.
The Red Sox are in the same boat. Look what they did. They are taking a flyer on Bartolo Colon.
There just isn’t any decent starting pitching in the marketplace. That’s why Billy Beane is asking a kings ransom for an average guy like Joe Blanton.
The Yankees have another starter available. Its Joba Chamberlain.
They just may have to transition him sooner than desired, if Moose continues to falter.
You can find a guy to pitch one inning. Awfully hard to find one who can pitch 6 or 7.
If Moose continues to struggle, we will see Joba in the rotation very soon, IMO.
You know, playing major league baseball is a job, but it’s supposed to be (at least to us non-mlb-players) a fun job. The fulfillment of a life-long dream. Now, every game is not going to be fun; it’s definitely more fun to win than lose. But at what point does a player stop enjoying what he’s doing? And what happens if he stops having fun or stops looking forward to playing a game?
I don’t think Mussina’s there yet, because he’s seemed to be enjoying the season, up to last night. He’s been the source of quite a few light-hearted moments and statements since the spring. I don’t think that one bad outing against the Red Sox is going to cause Mussina to doubt himself overall. (The prior outing was not bad.) Ramirez is a real problem for Mussina and it would be nice if he could figure him out, but I’ll see what he brings to the table next time around.
Peter, stop hating on Farnsworth. . . I’m sure it wasn’t HIS call to throw at the batter
Hey everyone, I looked at the minor league stats this morning looking for someone that we can bring up in place of Moose:
Here are the players we have in AA that are starters.
Player W L ERA G GS CG SHO ER
Jason Jones 3 0 1.50 3 3 0 0 0 18.0 1.17
Daniel McCutchen 2 1 1.02 3 3 0 0 0 17.2 0.96
Chase Wright 2 1 2.12 3 3 0 0 0 17.0 0.82
That McCutchen can thrown some heat. i would like to see him get the call.
For AAA only Darell Rasner is looking good:
W L ERA G GS ER
2 0 1.06 3 3 1.62
I say bring up McCutchen or Rasner to replace Moose. I just can’t handle 3 innings and 6 earned runs any more.
oh please. We all saw Aardasma do it and no one gave a damn, Wed, Jetes was hit, Alex was hit high near the chin area btw. Farnsy yesterday for once showed he’s willing to stand up for his team, I said it last night and I’ll say it today, I have no problem w/ what Farnsy did. He stepped up for his team, it shows that Girardi is changing the soft turn the cheek attitude out of this team.
I still don’t trust Farnsworth pitching wise but last night he stepped up for his team, he put his team ahead of himself unlike Mussina.
I don’t recall you criticizing Joba when he threw at Youkilis
Jason Jones and Chase Wright aren’t ML prospects. Dan McCutcheon is not yet ready to be in the Yankees rotation.
So we get our first look at the O’s tonight. I see they’ve had an unexpected start to the year, but with the horrible season they’re projected to have, I really really would like it if the Yankees didn’t have such a hard time with them this year. It’s bad enough when you have to deal with the Red Sox and Blue Jays, and now the Rays are pretty tough too, so they really need to take advantage and dominate this weak Orioles team. They were terrible last year too but the Yankees seemed pestered by them anyway. This year the Orioles have no strong points outside of being able to steal bases. Let’s hope that the Yankees can make the Orioles their bitch this year so there can be at least one division matchup we can bet on as a sure win…
Gammons needs to get his teeth cleaned. If I want to go look at that shade of yellow, I’ll go look at a school bus.
A-Rod got plunked Wed night, Manny Thurs night. EVEN. Give me a break, it’s ok for Alex to get hit but not Manny? Please spare us the “how would you like it if one of your guys get hit” what if’s.
IT’S NOT A WHAT IF. THEY DID HIT ALEX IN THE BACK, RIGHT BY HIS HEAD!!!
The double standards are appalling. Good thing both A-Rod & Manny are latin or I’d think racism was involved.
who cares, this is just ridiculous….pitcher throw at hitters all the time…sometimes its on purpose, sometimes it isnt…who cares.
Arod was hit squarely on the 1 (of the 13 on his back). That’s a fair distance from his chin.
Aside from Pete’s issue, is anyone else making a big deal about this??? Sox, and Ramirez in particular, seemed to have no problem with it.
I have to be honest, I also love Pete’s blog, but his tireless hatred of Kyle Farnsworth is getting kind of old. I don’t like Farnsworth as a player or what I know of his personality really either (which is very little).
Was he trying to hit Manny, sure. Should he have stayed away from his head, sure. But instead of spending time posting your distaste for the guy (sometimes subtly sometimes not) why don’t you discuss things he has done (or hasn’t) that relates directly to the field once in a while.
SJ44 …Agreed…
.
Joba as a starter and Alby in the bullpen,,,is WAY better than Moose as a starter and Joba in the pen…
.
It’s that simple…
Outside of the two terrible pitches thrown to Manny (make that 3 lousy, costly pitches to Ramirez in 1 1/2 weeks) – did Moose really pitch THAT badly? Hey – I give manny credit, sire, but the 3 pitches Moose has teed up for him have been grapefruits.
Pitch around Manny in those two at-bats and odds are maybe Youkilis get one hit out of two there. So Moose’s numbers on the night are really bloated due to his two tosses to Manny.
Everyone talks of how Mosse “must go”. Where’s he gonna go? Moose will stick in the rotation – it’s Hughes that needs to start throwing strikes and showing some longevity in games.
I agree with SJ… again, i think at this point, i wouldnt even bring Joba back to rejoin the big club when he leaves Nebraska; i’d send him right to Scranton or Trenton and start to stretch him out right now.
one thing i’ve learned so far is that this BP has pieces in place where you dont NEED joba in there like most thought they might to at least start the season, and other arms ready to go in Scranton if need be.
get joba in shape now, and let him stretch out for a month. recall him in late may/early june, and let him finish the season there.
i know Moose is supposed to play the role of the important innings-eating, veteran presence in the rotation every 5 days, but he’s just not that good… and if we learned from last night, for a Stanford guy, he’s not very bright and too stubborn for his own good.
Exactly, no one is making a big deal about this except for Yankee haters (Gammons) & Yankee beat writers.
G. Love,
It’s growing pains. It’s not ideal, but both teams need to have these kids take some lumps at the ML level. if and when they’re able to do what we know they’re able to do on a consistent basis, we’re going to be all the better for it. it has to be done at the risk of being the weaker team now, i think. the Yanks and Sox, no matter what the payroll, cable channel, etc., have to be held to the same standard as other teams, and that means you have to be allowed to take steps back to take steps forward.
i got laughed at on here when i recommended the Yanks sign Livan Hernandez, who’s an innings eater. last i saw, he was 3-0 for the Twins (although i admit that was last week.)
“I say bring up McCutchen or Rasner to replace Moose. I just can’t handle 3 innings and 6 earned runs any more.”
Is your solution to put Moose in the bullpen and bring him in every other day? Or should we just give him a pair of size 13 flats and have him coach the rest of the season?
Why not make him the number 5 starter instead and keep him away from teams like Boston and Detroit and let him pick up 10-11 vulture wins on the season.
I can’t imagine you believe Rasner or McCutchen will do much better.
“i have yet to hear of anyone outside of this blog defend farnsworth.”
bulls…. !! go on NoMaas they’re defending Farnsy, go on PSD they are defending his actions !, NYYFANS same thing, YES Board same thing, Chris Carlin in the morning called Farnsy “my guy” , Mark Malusis last night said he had no problem actually was happy they sent Manny a message, Boomer and Carlton, Joe and Evan just now said Farnsworth stepped it up for his team. Don’t BS us on nobody outside of this blog because that is simply not true !
Farnsworth did what Mussina should have done! but the only difference is we found out last night Moose doesn’t have this team on his top priority list, surprisingly Farnsy did and that’s why the majority is not knocking. Gammons and ESPN BBT don’t have the Yankees on thier good side so I could care less what they think.
One person who trumps everybody defended Farnsworth…..Derek Jeter.
That should put an end to it.
I used to throw at guys on purpose all the time, am I such a horrible person for doing so? Its part of the game people. Yeah it sucks when its your guy, but whats good for the goose is good for the gander. this is just a ridiculous discussion. I wont be posting on this subject anymore.
SteveHowe:
Mussina stinks. 1-3 in four starts with a 5.75 ERA, including an ERA in excess of 9 in two starts against the Yanks’ chief rival. He doesn’t strike anyone out, opponents are hitting .313 off of him (they hit .310 off him last year), he struggles to get throught six innings and he’s a drain on the pen.
Other than that, he is doing pretty well though.
Petes hatred for kyle is really becoming juvenile. What did he do to u? Steal ur lunch money
its about time someone threw at him!!!
the way i see it, Joba’s leave to see to his Dad has probably been helping the case to bring him into the rotation this year. the bullpen has not imploaded dude to the absence of Joba. they’ve found ways to get it done, they’ve found ways to distribute the workload fairly evenly. Also, i remember Cashman saying something in the offseason along the lines of how as much as it would suck if Joba got hurt it would make it easier to deal with his innings limits, like it did when Hughes got hurt last year. they were able to have him start the rest of the year when he got back and not worry about his innings in October. Obviously Joba hasn’t been gone very long and probably won’t be much longer, but he’s only pitched, what, 5.1 innings so far and it’s April 18th? I’d say they could be inclined to start stretching him out in May and insert him into the rotation even before the All-Star Break, if there is a major need. So far we have 3 guys who have been shaky. Chances are by june we may just need to replace moose, ian or hughes, and i think it’s realistic that joba could be ready by then without having a big threat to his innings.
Pete is right that Farnsy should have the testicular fortitude to say what he did rather than this “it slipped” business. But there’s nothing wrong with the action itself.
it’s not about whether or not Farnsworth is “brave” enough to admit what he did. it’s about being smart and not saying something to get suspended. you want him to go “yeah i threw at him on purpose” and then have him get suspended when we’re already short a guy in the bullpen?
i mean if you remember, we lost Clemens for 5 games last year because he admitted to a retaliatory pitch.
We’re not in the Girl’s Scout, you can say plenty without having to say anything. Will Pete ever go up to A-Rod and tell him he’s a j*rk to his face? No.
Why do writers think they have a right to force statements out of people? Last night Kim Jones was trying to get Moose to say that Manny is God and deserves to be worshipped. These are men, they don’t need to be schooled like children.
Fredo – while we’re at it, let’s send Phil and Ian packing, too.
Hughes: 0-2, 9.00
Kennedy: 0-1, 8.74
Mussina: 1-3, 5.75
Wang: 3-0, 3.81
Pettitte: 2-1, 3.27
Could have done what Aardsma did. Say nothing and let the action speak for itself. Perhaps fortitude was the wrong word. Let’s go with disingenuous instead.
One more point, not that I’m advocating Farnsy shouting from the mountain top that he threw at Ramirez, but the next guy who is suspended for saying “yeah, I threw at him” after the fact, will be the 1st.
“Pete is right that Farnsy should have the testicular fortitude to say what he did rather than this “it slipped†business.”
Farnsy: “Yeh I meant to do it, didn’t you see what they did to Alex and Jetes a few days ago ?, I had to do it.”
MLB: suspend Farnsworth for 5 days and fine him
YEH THAT’S SMART
“chilling in the USAirways Terminal waiting for a flight to Baltimore”
Pete, you poor thing. I don’t know how low US Airways can sink. Now they are going to charge extra for aisle and window seats!!! Oh how I can’t stand that airline, but that or Northwest is the only one I can take when I go back home to Upstate New York.
“but the next guy who is suspended for saying “yeah, I threw at him†after the fact, will be the 1st.”
where have you been ? they did it to Clemens last season when he admitted throwing to Alex Rios.
SteveHowe:
Apples and oranges, dude. Hughes and Kennedy are kids with pretty bright futures who will have to endure some growing pain. Mussina peaked years ago. He was decent from ‘03-06 but has been awful since the start of ‘07.
Further, I never said get rid of Mussina. Merely pointing out the flaws in your “if not for those two pitches” theory. He just doesn’t have it anymore.
Christine – check the price of fuel. Have sympathy for the airlines and their employees – just like any company, they’re trying to make the best of the situation. Raise prices to combat rising fuel costs or layoff their workforce in bunches.
SJ,
I hope you’re right about them putting Joba in the rotation soon. What we’ve seen this week is we can survive without him in the 8th inning.
I know the kids in the rotation will have growing pains and I’m more than willing to accept that as a fan. I want to see them pitch and figure it out.
My biggest problem is our #3 starter in Moose is barely a starting pitcher at this point.
He doesn’t have the stuff to go through a lineup more than once.
Yes, he’ll take advantage of free swinging undisciplined teams, but that shouldn’t be good enough to keep him in this role.
We need a veteran who still has some life in him who can be counted on to pitch some games.I’m kind of wishing the Yanks went after that Vargas guy the Mets got who was released from the Brewers.
Whoever mentioned Livan Hernandez was right on. The guy’s not an ace and not expected to be one, but he’ll give you innings and keep you in the game.
That’s what we need while we watch Phil and Ian take their baby steps.
But having 2/5ths of the rotation take baby steps and 1/5th (moose) pitch with sub-standard stuff is a recipe for disaster.
Joba could fix the rotation and I think they should send him down on a rehab assignment when he’s done with his family stuff and stretch him out.
I actually have faith that this pen will be a good one provided the starters don’t make them come in every night by the 5th.
Brandon:
Wasn’t Clemens ejected from that game after hitting Rios??? That alone gets him the suspension. I remember Cano being hit in one inning and Clemens hitting Rios the next.
hmmm… good point Fredo, still it would be stupid to admit it, you don’t go out of your way to get suspended.
You say clemens owns up to his actions lol. How hypocritical is that. I usually like your blog posts but was your head in the sand the last few months when clemens lied to congress? And maybe farnsworth was trying to hit manny in the back, pitchers do lose control of their pitches sometimes don’t they? I don’t think mussina meant to throw 2 86 mph fastballs down the middle of the plate to manny, but it happened.
Hey Pete,
Why don’t you be a man about it and call Farnsworth out to his face that he shouldn’t lie to you and the rest of the reporters?
doreen-
i have great respect for you and your baseball knowlege, but there is a part of the game that you just don’t know about and that is that it is fundamentally dangerous. from a distance, because all the players knows the rhythms of the game it appears not so dangerous. this is an illusion. the average fan would get killed just walking around the field during batting practice. balls are going everywhere.fungoes to infielders, balls in play from hitters, balls being thrown in from the outfield, infielders throwing to first, players warming up, etc.
but even during bp, people get hurt when they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. there is an illusion of safety because the players and coaches know where to be, what to do, and when to do things. people do get severely hurt in bp when they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. it doesn’t happen often ,but it happens.
a baseball at high speeds is dangerous. there is no getting around it. if the game is played right with players being in tune with all the rules and the unwritten rules, the danger is minimized.
one of the unwritten rules is what sj mentioned earlier. there is an agreement between pitcher and hitter that the hitter can have one half of the plate ,but not both. the only way a hitter can take both halves is if he pays no attention to the possibility of being hit. this is what manny does with mussina. this is what everyone does with mussina.
all mussina has to do is remind manny of that unwritten agreement between hitter and pitcher. he doesn’t do it because he stubbornly thinks he can still get manny out with trickery only. musssina also doesn’t even pitch as close as he would normally because manny has moved in on him. mussina has no where to pitch. there is no location that manny can’t cover. the only thing he can do is use deception of pitch and changing speeds. he can’t use location because he has given manny control of location.
the simple thing to do is to remind manny that ,like someone on the field in batting practice. he needs to be at the right place at the right time or the game gets dangerous. being in the right place in the batter’s box means picking one side or the other to hit from.
mussina can do this with pitches that edge into the danger zone. manny will get the message quickly and will move to where he’s supposed to be. if he doesn’t all mussina needs to do is keep moving more into the space that is rightly his. manny will move or he’ll be the one choosing to get hit.
mussina refuses to do this. manny annihilates him and kills the yankees. another pitcher on the team has to step in and remind manny that the baseball is dangerous if a hitter tries to take more than his share of the plate. he has to do mussina’s dirty work.
that is what makes mussina a baseball coward. he forces other people to take care of players like manny who take advantage of mussina which hurts not just mussina but the yankees.
mussina , ironically because he’s trying to not hurt anyone including himself, is putting everyone in danger. farnsworth or some other yankee had to take back the plate from manny or other hitters would start doing the same thing against the yankees . he didn’t execute the way he should have for the ball to be so close to manny’s face, but he’s not to blame for simply throwing at manny.
the red sox are going to retaliate. there is no doubt, and it’s on mussina because he refuses to play the game in the right way. that he forces his teammates to do what he’s supposed to do makes him a coward.
i guarantee that someone will talk to him at some point. it’s not hard to connect the dots when you’re the one getting drilled in retaliation. the players and coaches know that this originates from mussina. they looked the other way when he was really good. he’s not anymore.
sorry if the language offends you, but ” coward’ is the only word that appropriately descibes mussina’s approach.
Hey Pete – let us know what Kyle says when YOU man up and tell him your opinion to his face.
Did you really just associate Roger Clemens with integrity?
“At least he owned [up] to his actions on the field.”
Too bad he won’t own up to his actions off the field…
Something to ponder:
Imagine how long it would take the Yankees and Red Sox to play a 22 inning game.
im down on moose, but theres way too much doom and gloom about the pitching staff here. hughes and kennedy are going to put together good streaks and i say it starts at camden this week. that plus joba coming back will calm the bp situation and the pitching staff will be fine. the offense will have to carry moose until someone steps up in the minors and takes his job.
I think Moose would be OK if he wasn’t being matched up against the Becketts of the league.
It’s about time Yankee pitchers retaliated. Over the last 10 years, Boston pitchers have hit more Yankee batters than any team’s pitchers have hit batters of another team. And yet, you know with Torre, New York would turn the other cheek. Pedro Martinez, let’s not forget, once came close to ending the careers of Jeter and SOriano on successive at bats.
In Boston last nite, I was astounded to hear how the announcers smirked smugly about Boston getting back for the Manny brush-back. The wilfully ignorant self-righteousness of many Sox partisans continues to amaze. As if BOston hadn’t been getting way with this for years. When the history of Boston’s rise and the Yankees’ fall is fully documented a lot of it will have to do with the way Boston has intimidated the Yankees in recent years. What do you think the sneering Jason Varitek would say about that if you ever got him to honestly reveal his true nasty nature.
Pete: Like SJ44 said: “If Farnsworth’s control was that pinpoint (to throw at his head) he wouldn’t be the struggling relief pitcher he is these days.” It amazes me that you think that Farnsworth has that much control of his heater. That pitch may have well been intended for his waist or high and outside for all we know based on past performance.
“Let’s all praise Roger Clemens for his honesty!”
Adam- I laughed!
Start covering women’s softball if you don’t understand how this game works.
Farnsy 1-2-3, Farnsy 1-2-3, Farnsy 1-2-3!
I’m beginning to warm up to the man. Besides, one shouldn’t expect him not to overthrow up and in from time to time to hitters who dig in on top of the plate. It’s part of baseball. Has anyone looked lately at the stats for hit batsmen for the past few years, Sox vs Yanks? It’s quite one-sided.
Pete, what you said there makes no sense what-so-ever.
The Yankees bullpen is already short handed because of the lack of Joba. Anyone with half a brain knows that Farnsworth was trying to go inside to Manny, if not trying to hit him. Everyone knows it didn’t slip. So basically, you want Farnsworth to tell us something that all of us already know at the cost him him and Girardi getting suspended????? Are you kidding? It was a purpose pitch, we know. He HAS to say what he said to avoid suspension. What would he possibly gain from saying it was on purpose? He’d just leave the Yankees more short-handed.
Pete Abe wrote: “Remember last August when Roger Clemens drilled Toronto’s Alex Rios and got suspended for five games? He didn’t fight the suspension and admitted he was retaliating for the Jays throwing at A-Rod.”
You say Clemens “admitted he was retailiating”.
Got a quote to back that up?
I don’t recall such an admission, and a quick Google search failed to turn anything up, but I may have missed it.
Speaking of being a man, I assume you’ll be telling Kyle how you feel to his face, no?
That Clemens HBP incident last season may be the ONLY time he’s ever admitted to throwing at or hitting someone on purpose—if he ever did admit anything and it’s not a product of Pete’s imagination. Remember “I thought it was the ball”?
As for Kyle Farnsworth’s “pitching”, I just looked at that video at MLB.com that Brian from PA referred to, and when paused at a timely moment, the ball is at a level with the back of Manny’s neck, less than a foot behind him.
Personally, I think both Girardi and Farnsworth are offering some rather stupid excuses for the incident.
If a RH guy’s trying to overthrow or pitch as near to 100MPH as he can, it’s nearly impossible to release the ball a bit too soon and have it veer so sharply to the right of the plate. It’s much more likely that he’d hang onto the ball a bit too long and that that it’d bounce in the dirt or veer off to the left.
Ergo, the thug threw a purpose pitch exactly where he intended it to go, and Pete’s right.
One more thing: the HBP count is STILL in the Yankees’ “classy” favor. Everybody seems to be forgetting that it’s 1 ARod to 2 Jacobys.
Hey, SteveHoweYouDoin!
I do have sympathy for the majority of the airlines, just not US Airways. I have lost all respect for them, but I have no other choice. They have done so many things to screw me and my family, it’s sad.
I do have sympathy for the airlines like Continental that are grounding planes, but even if this crisis was over and the airlines were to make money hand over fist, US would still continue to do these types of things.
I just wonder if there are no middle seats available, someone will still be charged a higher price for an aisle or window.