Where have you gone, Robbie Cano?
-
- April
- 18
Remember when Robinson Cano beat the Rays with that pinch-hit homer the other night? Everybody – and I mean everybody – on the team was convinced that would be the spark he needed to get going.
Cano is 1 for 12 since and is now hitting .167.
Cano has struck out only eight times in 70 plate appearances, so he’s making decent contact. But he’s seeing only 3.47 pitches per plate appearance, the fewest on the team.
In essence, Cano is getting himself out by swinging at the pitches the pitcher wants him to swing at.
Patience, young man, patience.
Meanwhile, Derek Jeter is 8 for 17 with seven RBI in four games since he came back from his quad strain. Maybe they should strain his other quad and see what that does for him.
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on Friday, April 18th, 2008 at 10:55 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
cano is back where he was last season at the begining!! A-rod is on his carier patern 1 good year 1 bad !!
Cano will be fine. He makes too much contact to not start hitting. I do wish he was a little more patient at the plate though.
Just wanted to change the subject quickly and hit on something you wrote yesterday Pete…
If you can’t beat Manny, ’sign him.’
Should the NYY pursue Manny for RF after Abreu is gone?
Any comments…
Last night made me remember that passage in Buster Olney’s book about the winter of 2000, whne the NYY had to make a choice between pitching (Mussina) and hitting (Ramirez).
Anyone wish they chos ethe other?
So far in his young career Robbie is not a good hitter in April or May for that matter. Hopefully he’ll snap out of it sooner than later this year.
Great Post, pete….thanks !
Pete,
Bite your tongue!! The quad must’ve been bothersome. It
s hard to remember the last time Jeter sat out this long.
I like how the bottom third of the order and Melky (wherever he lands in the order) are battling these tough pitchers. Jackson, Buchholz, and Beckett gave the “big” bats fits or got them to get out on 2 pitches or less (yes, that would be a first pitch). I love following on game day and seeing 7-pitch ABs from these supposedly “impatient” hitters in the bottom third of the order.
thanks for all the posts today pete! it’s been a good friday on the ole lohud.
So, uh, guys, what’s with this 22 inning colorado-san diego game last night?
“Should the NYY pursue Manny for RF after Abreu is gone?”
Manny is not a free agent. The Red Sox control his destiny and they’re not letting him come to NY.
Besides, in the minors, we’re stacked in the outfield.
If you sign him you do so as a DH. You don’t want Manny being Manny in our outfield.
As for Cano, it’ll come to him. He’s been taking more pitches of late. Early on, he popped up on the first pitch in nearly every at bat. Lately, he’s been taking that first pitch.
Not one for gossip… but a buddy of mine met Joba’s (whatever you want to call her), said shes real down to earth, sports lovin chick.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=27000951&MyToken=6698651d-4468-446b-b514-5bff44865285
Peep the pics… love the one of Joba n Franchise playin rockband. haha.
Good lookin broad, I tell ya. Atta boy Joba.
Even his foul balls do not look good. He is not taking good swings at the “good” pitches and making contact and putting in to play the “bad” ones.
They really need Robbie to get going. The guy is just too good a hitter to be this bad this long.
Thinking about Joba……
While the circumstances are certainly unfortunate, its getting to the point of decision time for the Yankees.
He’s out for almost a week. Meaning, he can’t just come back and pitch because I doubt he has been throwing while tending to his dad in Nebraska.
That means when he does return, he will have to go to Tampa for a few days, get back into a throwing program, and maybe even in a minor league game or two.
Why not just leave him there for two more weeks, stretch him out, bring him back to NY in the first or second week of May, and put him in the rotation?
For discussion sake, lets say they do that and he is back around May 10. That will give him 25 starts this year and he will be around the 150 innings the team wants (or is rumored to want) for him this year.
To me, its simple math. You can find somebody to fill 1 inning of work in a game. Hell, they are paying Hawkins and Farnsworth a combined 9 million bucks. Let them pitch alternate pitch the 8th inning.
To find a starter, particularly a guy with Joba’s stuff, ain’t happenin’ on the open market.
If I’m Cashman, this is the time I transition him to the rotation. They can get by another 3 weeks without him.
This is something that probably wasn’t on their timetable this early in the season. However, I do think its time to do it and I really hope they are considering it.
Its a waste to have your best arm pitching in the 8th inning.
The Rangers didn’t even want Soriano, our 2b at the time, when we traded him for that Rodriguez fellow.
What gives with Robbie? Has he changed his swing or has someone buried an Ortiz jersey in back of his head?
“Cano has struck out only eight times in 70 plate appearances, so he’s making decent contact.”
It’s not that he’s making decent contact. It’s more like he doesn’t actually take enough pitches in a given AB to actually strikeout. 3.47 pitches per PA is really terrible. It is difficult to strikeout when you don’t even take 4 pitches an AB. He has very little plate discipline.
This is why the number of K’s for a hitter is kind of overrated and doesn’t mean much. People crap on guys like Dunn and Burrell and Abreu for striking out so much. But that is because they are such patient hitters and are constantly in deep counts, thereby increasing the likelihood that the AB results in a K. Generally speaking, the guys who strike out more than 100 times a year have much much better plate discipline than the guys who only strike out 70 times a year. Of course there are some exceptions, like Pujols, who doesn’t K at all but has great plate discipline. Or like Bill Hall, who K’s a lot but has little plate discipline.
“Meanwhile, Derek Jeter is 8 for 17 with seven RBI in four games since he came back from his quad strain. Maybe they should strain his other quad and see what that does for him.”
In that case, kick him in the nuts and throw him off a bridge and maybe he will pull a Manny Ramirez on the Orioles tonight.
SJ44,
If they do decide to make Chamberlain a starter now and he pitches 150IP’s during the regular season how would it effect his postseason availability? I was always under the assumption that his innings limit included the postseason as well.
SJ: You know, I gave that a passing thought the other night.
It’s kind of weird; we shouldn’t see any good in the situation–you want Harlan to get healthy ASAP and whatnot–but it might be one of those things that is inadvertently beneficial.
Because we haven’t had Joba for the past four games, we’ve had to make do with others in the bullpen, and two of the past four have been close. Okay, so Bruney blew one of those games, but between all the guys in the pen, we’ve seemed to be able to get it done.
Would you consider piggybacking Joba’s “starts” on, say, Phil’s? Like have one of them go for five innings and the other for four or something like that to start? It would save innings for both of them, but on the flip side, Mussina would still be starting every fifth day.
But, you know, it’s weird how baseball works like that. When Wally Pip went down, did anyone expect Gehrig to do what he did? etc.
Either way, the sooner we get Joba back, the better.
“Good lookin broad, I tell ya. Atta boy Joba.”
how many kids does this girl have? looking at those photos, i hope joba wears protection… yeesh.
SJ44
It might be to soon to start the transition from an innings count perspective. Unless you think we’d go with a 6 man rotation.
I agree 100% that we should try our best not to put Mussina up against good offensive teams like the Red Sox and Tigers. We play a lot of games against Tampa Bay so lets make sure he slots in for all of those
Rich,
judging by the body, obviously none of em are hers..
Joba’s little boy is cute kid, tho.
“We play a lot of games against Tampa Bay so lets make sure he slots in for all of those”
Tampa’s offense is just as potent as the Red Sox and Tigers.
Don’t think about postseason innings when thinking about innings caps. Pretty soon, enough of the season will have passed where he’ll be under the cap anyway.
What stood out about Joba’s whatever-she-is was her hands. B-I-G.
Charles Barkley’s supposed to be talking NBA on the DP show, but instead he’s going off about how ESPN ambushed Miguel Tejada was bush league. They apparently sat him down for interview under other pretenses, but ambushed him about the age issue.
Why is everyone surprised that he’s not 31? Dude looks at least 37 years old.
Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes, Mussina…
I think Kennedy is going to get pushed into relief. He has the best control anyway.
“Tampa’s offense is just as potent as the Red Sox and Tigers.”
I am going to have to disagree. Tampa has a lot more “slap and run” type offense where Mussina’s off-speed pitches would induce a good amount of pop-ups and awkwardly-hit grounders. You put him up against the Sox (Ortiz, Manny, Drew, Youkilis) or the Tigers (Sheffield, Ordonez, Cabrera, etc.) and the sky’s the limit.
Tampa’s offense doesn’t intimidate you and they are very free-swinging which means they will be chasing Mussina’s already-out-of-the-strike-zone pitches.
No tampas offensive is not intimidating, but if you take them light, or get lazy, they will make you pay. its best to bring your A game to the rays.
“You put him up against the Sox (Ortiz, Manny, Drew, Youkilis) or the Tigers (Sheffield, Ordonez, Cabrera, etc.) and the sky’s the limit.”
You made a funny Russ…
Russell,
Tampa may not intimidate you at all but last year they scored 782 runs which was middle of the pack. Most of their guys are under 30 so I would think they’ll be better than that this year.
Hughes needs a big game tonight.. Heres hoping he can go at least 7. Give our BP a little break
mel,
I think they should check birth certificates for Odem(trail blazers #1 pick). He’s like 40. Wrinkles and all. While they are at. Check Lebron.
Wasnt El Duque like 48 when we got him? But he swears he was 28.
I really think they need to clamp down on these fake ages. Teams are paying big bucks thinking these players have many more years left. I would make it wear they all get their certificates investigated and forfeit all the money if its falcified. I know they think that thats the only way to make it. But its just not fair to the teams.
Hey Peter,
Why not hire Tanya Harding to take out Jeters other knee? Maybe we’ll finally have that .400 hitter that baseball been waiting for.
SJ44 – Nailed it about Joba, friend. Email that post RIGHT TO CASHMAN !….Have a great day, ALL….With all the Yankees Fans that trek to Baltimore,,,it is going to be a 3 game sweep by the HOME TEAM ( the YANKEES !!! )
Rebecca–Optimist Prime–Mission 2708 …from the time on your last post last night…I believe you owe me $20 !
At least Hughes’s first 3 April starts have been better than (21 year old) Santana’s first 3 April starts.
Just need a couple of days off to realign the starters, then we can see some Moose vs fifth starter matchups instead of Moose vs first or second
Pete – Don’t try to argue sense with some people.
SJ44 – re: your post about Joba – Things happen with plans, sometimes, and you have to adjust. I’m sure you and others on this site are not the only ones thinking about changing his timetable. From what I’ve read about Joba’s father’s condition, he’s got a long road ahead of him, and Joba may be out for a couple of more weeks. If so, then I think this scenario becomes more likely, especially if Moose or someone else can’t make a go of it.
You hate to make plans based on an unfortunate scenario, but it may play out that way.
“Tampa has a lot more “slap and run†type offense”
Bull. Upton, Pena, Longoria and Crawford all drive the ball. Gomes has power too, but he’s a platoon guy. Upton and Crawford (and Longoria? Maybe?) also have speed. Sure, Aki is kind of a slapper, and Bartlett is just a mediocre hitter, but they have a good lineup. Some of them lack discipline, which is their achilles heel…but don’t say they don’t have a potent lineup.
“Just need a couple of days off to realign the starters,”
From what I understand Girardi has no plans to skip anyone when they get a day off. That’s what they were reporting last night on the radio anyway.
I definitely agree it’s time to make Joba a starter when he’s ready to come back to baseball.
I really do believe in this bullpen and I think they will be one of the best in the league provided the starters start doing their jobs and giving the team some innings.
This week was a way for us and the organization to see that the team will survive without Joba in the 8th.
I don’t know if I can sit through another Mussina start.
Seriously, it’s painful for me to watch.
I know all this “he’ll get us 12 wins” talk and I understand it, but his stuff is awful right now. It’s so hard to watch.
If batters lay off that looping knuckle curve (which I think they all will from now on) and wait for the batting practice fastball he’ll be out of the rotation by June.
raymagnetic
I think he said they are going to talk about it. or maybe that was the question I couldn’t hear.
I know they are going to talk about what to do with the pen, since they need a fresh arm, and probably need to give Ross one more day off.
Cashman is far too smart to care about what most of the NY media (excluding Pete, to his credit) and many fans think about whether to use Joba as a starter or reliever. He knows that the worst case scenario is that Joba fails as a starter and Cashman gets some negative, “I told you so” press when Joba goes back to the pen.
If Joba succeeds as a starter, everyone forgets this debate.
It amazes me how prevalent the pro-pen view is, even among people who should know better. Last night, Flaherty said the Yankees should use Joba in the pen because a Joba-Rivera tandem shortens games. Flaherty forgot that a starter who goes 7 strong innings shortens a game a lot more than a reliever who goes 1 inning, and that games where the starter gets knocked around don’t need “shortening” because there is probably no lead to protect.
SJ44’s idea is terrific and I’ve seen it nowhere else, which is really saying something considering how hot the Joba issue is. My only concern, as others have said, is innings. It’s still real early in the season.
Does anyone know when Horne is supposed to start pitching again? I was hoping he would be on the team by June/July,taking the bullpen spot Joba left.
G. Love = 100% correct !
How about ?? :
( A rotation in this order )
Wang
Joba
Andy
Hughes
IPK/Horne ( with the other being the long reliever )
.
Moose traded to the Cubs (jk)
“the guys who strike out more than 100 times a year have much much better plate discipline than the guys who only strike out 70 times a year”\
If strike out 100 times a year there is a problem I don’t care what you say.
To strike 100 times out of 600 ab’s. I don’t think that’s having plate discipline thats not making contact period.
A lot of attention has rightly been focused on how much the injuries to the pitching staff last year hurt the team.
Less attention has been paid to how those injuries hurt the pitchers involved.
I specifically bring this up with regards to Hughes.
He is the second youngest player in the majors – but the obstacles he’s trying to overcome right now go past that.
Last year was essentially a completely lost year for him. He was supposed to work on developing a third pitch and building arm strength.
That did not happen because of the hamstring and ankle injuries.
Phil has been in professional baseball for only 3 seasons. That’s it. Of those three seasons, one (last year) was a near complete loss in terms of his development. That’s an enormous loss for any young pitcher, especially one who is only 21. He didn’t get to work on much at all last year.
His mechanics are off right now and I think a lot of that has to do with throwing so few innings last year. I wonder if he got out of rhythm with his mechanics and never fully settled back in. That may be why we’ve seen him be inconsistent this year.
The more innings he throws this year the better he is going to get. He’s going to need to make adjustments and he’s going to have rough spots. It may take some time for him to get back to where he should be.
But with him it’s primarily about getting more work and getting back into the habit of his mechanics.
I do think he needs to face major league quality hitters at this point in his career to continue that development however. He’ll be way too much for AAA hitters and will be able to get away with bad habits in AAA. He’s ready for this level of competition – but this is a transition period both in terms of him taking his game to that next level and also making up for all the lost time from last season.
The team needs to be patient with him. I understand and completely agree that the starting staff needs to go deeper into games. But that can’t just be laid at the foot steps of a 21 year old who missed most of his third season in professional baseball.
Can he keep having 3 inning outings? No. Do I think he will? No.
But to start saying that they have to have 7 innings out of him is a difficult proposition. That’s basically saying to him you need to be a quality #3 starter right now, instead of the #4 starter we had you pegged for.
They should get creative with the staff and explore other options instead of losing patience with Hughes.
“If batters lay off that looping knuckle curve (which I think they all will from now on) and wait for the batting practice fastball he’ll be out of the rotation by June.”
Maybe, maybe not. Moose had far better command the last time he played against Boston. When his command is on he is a decent enough pitcher to log innings which is all the Yankees are counting on him for anyway.
Horne is injured right now so his move to the bigs is delayed until who knows when and Ian hasn’t exactly been pitching great either, besides his one start against Tampa.
“If strike out 100 times a year there is a problem I don’t care what you say.”
Manny and Alex strikeout over 100 times a year most years. Hell so does Ortiz. Hall of fame careers have been built with guys who strikeout over 100 times a year.
Cano has always been a bad ball swinger, he’s much like his predecessor, Soriano, in that way. He loves to swing at balls, particularly low and inside. Every year he doesn’t adjust, the scouting on him gets better, and the pitchers know what he’ll go for. He swings at bad pitches, puts bad wood on the ball, and nothing happens of it.
He also looks lazy to me, like he can’t wait to get out of there.
I’m not a Cano fan.
“If strike out 100 times a year there is a problem I don’t care what you say.”
Jeter strikes out about 110 times a year. What would his problem be? Arod’s good for 130-140. His issue is what???
How nice would it have been to have Crede on our team this year. I wish we have traded for him and put him on first. I think he is going to have a monster year at the plate. Not including the gold glove caliber defense he brings.
I know its early but how much time do we give Jason to get going? It seems like he has one good game. Then follows it up with 4 bad ones.
Rays are going to announce a signing of Longoria – buying out his pre-FA years with a couple club options for his first couple FA years.
I guess I’m the only one not bothered by Canò…though I really do wish he would learn how to clutch.
YFIB:
Cano is a bad ball swinger, but he makes much more contact than Soriano. I would agree the more people see of him, the better they will pitch him and would disagree in a big way with those who see him as a regular contender for the batting title. That said, he’s been streaky from the get go and I would anticipate some good streaks upcoming.
Is something wrong with many that he didn’t charged the mound yesterday???
I don’t think I could take another week of Jeter being out of the lineup… he’s hitting just fine now, we don’t need him to go and get injured again.
CB,
What do you think of the idea of maybe having Hughes and Kennedy pitch on the same day? It would keep their innings down and they wouldnt feel the pressure of having to go 6 or 7 innings everytime they take the mound. Have them go 4 each and rotate it where 1 starts one day. Then the other starts the next time around.
I want to be clear here.
I’m not using Harlen’s illness as some type of personnel tragedy for the Yankees. If it comes across that way, I apologize because its not my intent at all.
As someone who lost both parents, I wouldn’t wish that on anybody and I hope he dad has a speedy recovery.
Just looking at it from a baseball perspective, what can the Yankees do to improve the team?
Joba not only has the best arm on the team. He may have the best arm in the league. Its a waste to have the best arm in the AL pitching 8th innings on a pitching staff that may possess 60% of its members incapable of pitching into the 8th inning on a consistent basis.
If he is gone from the team until Mid-May for example, I don’t see how they can avoid not transitioning him into the rotation upon his return.
While the circumstances around it are certainly what any sane person would wish for, it does now give them the chance to do what they need to do. Put him in the rotation.
To paraphrase Rick Pitino:, “The 2004 Mike Mussina is not walking through the door folks”. He will get by against teams he can trick. For better, more selective offensive teams, he has no chance.
He has shown a complete unwillingness to change his pitching patterns. Is it realistic then to be able to count on him this season? I don’t think so.
Here’s my feeling on guys like Moose, Giambi, Farnsworth, and Damon.
The chances all these guys are back next season is very, very low. Therefore, the Yankees don’t “owe” them anything.
Sure, you want to see these guys perform up to the levels of their past success because it makes the team better.
However, if they don’t, the Yankees don’t have to wait on them this season. They have to make moves to improve their team. If it means sitting these guys, so be it.
In other words, they don’t have to show the same type of loyalty (for lack of a better word) they have to show to guys like Cano, Jeter, Arod, the young guns, etc. Guys they are counting on for years to come.
The one thing we have seen about Brian Cashman is this. He has ZERO qualms about moving young guys into the lineup. Even if it means forcefeeding them early.
He pushed for Cano and Wang in 2005. He pushed for Melky in 2006. He pushed for Joba in 2007.
Girardi also has no fears about playing young guys and even putting the heat (notice his comments on Hughes today) on them. That’s a good thing.
If I’m the Yankees May 10 is “moving day”. If Damon is still struggling, Brett Gardner goes to left, Matsui stays as the DH, Damon goes to the bench.
If Giambi is still struggling, he goes to the bench and the AB’s are divvied up between Duncan and Ensberg.
If Moose is still struggling, Joba to the rotation and Farnsworth/Hawkins get the first tryouts for the 8th inning.
They can solve their problems from within. They just have to have the onions to do it.
Its too early to make the moves I am suggesting just yet. However, if I’m Cashman, I begin to put the wheels in motion for transitioning Joba to the rotation. That opening is now present and its time to do it.
As far as, “what happens in the post-season”? You have to get to the post-season before you worry about that issue.
S.O.S,
I think the hitters like Giambi/Damon get until Memorial Day to show they are out of the slump.
After that, if they are still struggling I think reinforcements will be brought in/up.
Cano will start hitting sometime in May. The guy seriously doesn’t do April. It’s a bad month for him. What with tax time and all.
“Rays are going to announce a signing of Longoria – buying out his pre-FA years with a couple club options for his first couple FA years.”
Already? I think it’s way to soon to sign him long term. Let him at least have 1 good year. I guess in the end if he’s as good as everyone thinks he’ll be it’ll be more than a bargain for Tampa.
FIRST!
I don’t pitch Hughes and Kennedy at the same time. That’s not going to help.
You know what you do? You pencil them in every 5 days and deal with the results. Its all part of the growth process.
Cano isn’t lazy and he’s a much better hitter than Soriano. When guys are going bad, they look bad. Its that simple.
If he is hitting .167 in July, then worry.
Robbie Cano is not the biggest problem on the team right now. He isn’t even in the Top 5.
With all the howlings about the offense, they scored 20 runs the last two days against the Defending World Champs.
They scored 5 runs last night off Beckett and Papelbon.
In other words, even with guys struggling in the lineup, they still scored enough runs to win if they pitched better.
They will rise or fall this year based on what happens on the mound. Not in the batters box.
Interesting to see SJ think May 10 is the drop dead date.
Personally, I hope he’s right. I’d rather us do it sooner rather than later since we’ve been through the mill with some of these guys and the loyalty to them perplexes me a bit.
That said, I’m stunned that Damon is looking like a shell of himself.
I seriously thought he had his Yankee Stadium moment in game 3 last year vs. Cleveland when he hit the homer, the stadium went wild and the fans in left field started chanting his name in between innings.
My seats are on the third base line down there and the guy looked seriously touched.
I thought for sure that alone would have ignited him to be the player he was.
I’m starting to think he doesn’t have it in him anymore. He’s only 32-33, right? But apparently it’s an old 32-33.
“Every year he doesn’t adjust, the scouting on him gets better, and the pitchers know what he’ll go for. He swings at bad pitches, puts bad wood on the ball, and nothing happens of it.
He also looks lazy to me, like he can’t wait to get out of there.
I’m not a Cano fan.”
Cano had the 4th highest OPS of any second baseman in baseball last year.
He had the 3rd highest slugging percentage and the 4th highest batting average of any second baseman.
In addition he was fantastic defensively. He had the 4th highest zone rating of any second baseman in baseball. He saved 28 runs scored on defensive compared to an average defensive second baseman. That’s equivalent to adding 28 RBI’s to his total for last year.
If you want to look at more advanced statistics, Cano last year had the second highest wins above replacement for any second baseman in baseball.
And he had the second highest wins above replacement on the yankees last year – higher than anyone except for ARod.
And that was in an off season for him. Of course he’s also 25 and plays a middle infield position making him one of the most valuable assets in all of baseball.
I wish we had more of these kinds of “lazy” players.
“They will rise or fall this year based on what happens on the mound. Not in the batters box.”
Doesn’t exactly make this year unique.
hey pete maybe you want to send cano to the minors again like you wanted to last year when he had a slow start.
I miss Shelley
“Glove-I’m starting to think he doesn’t have it in him anymore. He’s only 32-33, right? But apparently it’s an old 32-33.”
Maybe Damon got his birth certificate the same place Tejada did.
who will pitch for Bodymore tonight?
I think that Jeter is feeling Gonzalez breathing down his neck. The former Attorney General has loked awfully good during this call up.
G. Love
Damon is 35 in November. He’s at an age when things can start to go bad a little, especially given his propensity over the years for playing thru injuries. He was never a great outfielder, and may well be a little below average now, but I think he still has it at the plate. He can still steal bases, still a solid command of the strike zone (10 walks against 11 K’s) and will likely get back to being that .285-.290 hitter he’s always been.
“11:25am: Rosenthal says it will be something like $17MM over six seasons plus options for two free agent years. There will also be incentives along the way.”
interesting strategy
Just saw that the game isn’t on YES tonight, it’s on My9. I hate not having a pre and post.
“What do you think of the idea of maybe having Hughes and Kennedy pitch on the same day?”
I think it’s too early. They really need to learn how to be starting pitchers in the major leagues.
If Phil hits his innings limit or pitch limit then he may need to go to the pen later this year.
I stick with them in the rotation through thick or thin.
If the starting rotation isn’t giving them enough innings IMO the first thing you do is address the issue by doing something with Mussina’s spot in the rotation.
That’s where you try to get more innings. What that entails right now I’m not sure. It may mean Moose getting back to where he was before the Boston games or it may mean replacing him in the rotation.
Come this summer, however, Mussina’ spot in the rotation needs to go to Joba. That could be May but it should be no later than June.
The other thing I hope they can do to relieve the innings burden is to bring up either Horne or Dan McCuthceon to pitch in the long man role. Those are the guys I want to see in the pen as long men.
They are the two most talented, close to major league ready arms in the system. I think they can help the team this year.
Twentieth Century Fox presents — The X-Files: I Want To Believe
Opening Everywhere July 25, 2008
Mulder and Scully are back in this summer 2008 supernatural thriller based on the classic X-Files TV show! When a group of women are abducted in the wintry hills of rural Virginia, the only clues to their disappearance are the grotesque human remains that begin to turn up in snow banks along the highway. With officials desperate for any lead, a disgraced priest’s questionable “visions†send local police on a wild goose chase and straight to a bizarre secret medical experiment that may or may not be connected to the women’s disappearance. It’s a case right out of The X-Files. But the FBI closed down its investigations into the paranormal years ago. And the best team for the job is ex-agents Fox Mulder and Dr. Dana Scully, who have no desire to revisit their dark past. Still, the truth of these horrific crimes is out there somewhere…and it will take Mulder and Scully to find it!
Opening Everywhere July 25, 2008
He hasn’t done anything in the majors to warrant a 6 year extension.
Sometimes I wonder should the Rays even exist.
baltimore has pitchers?
Re: Joba and the rest of our SPs.
Look folks, Cashman and Girardi are basically in ‘wait and see’ mode in terms of determining the best way to use Joba and our SR. As much as we might like to make declarations now, I think we will be in ‘play it by ear’ mode for a while.
One thing is, I’d rather struggle a bit early and have Phil and Joba have some more innings to give in the PS.
We will NOT have a six man rotation. Aside from getting Wang and Andy fewer starts, it would kill out BP, with both Phil and Joba going 6 IPs or less. There is a reason why Moose is starting and Joba is in the pen, and nothing short of castastrophy will change that in the first half.
Moose has shown that when his LOCATION is on (unlike last night) he can still be decent and keep us in the game. They will not dump him for a few bad outings… not early in the season anyway.
This year is about rebuilding and still getting to the PS. We have so many young pitchers, it is impossible to know what we will get, so it’s hard to plan for the immediate future.
Our competition is the Sox, Tigers and Indians. We are a game behind the Sox and 2/3 ahead of Cleveland/Detroit. Considering our offense hasn’t taken hold, the crappy weather we have had, and a brutal schedule in April, we are doing just fine. Would I like to be doing better? SURE! But it’s simply about playing better then our competition for 162 games, and I think we are on track.
So you folks just relax when you see some occasional uglyness, it’s a long season.
I see where Shelley is tearing it up at Scranton. I would think that once Posada and Molina show they’re back to something approximating normal physical condition, Chad Moeller goes back down (I wuouldn’t release him, he’s still valuable if Jorge or Jose goes down again) and Shelley starts to see time at 1B.
Maybe this weekend?
The Yankees aren’t the only team who has these issues.
The Red Sox aren’t exactly issue free.
Dice-K is a question mark. Unless of course you think his 5 inning 120 pitch outings don’t take a toll on their shaky bullpen.
Buchholz and Lester are in the same boat as Hughes and Kennedy. You see promise and you also see struggle.
Tim Wakefield is 41 with a bad back.
Mike Timlin is 42 and looks like he is done.
Their bullpen isn’t deep and without Schilling, they have one arm they can consistently count on for solid starts. Beckett.
Same issues as the Yankees. The question will be, which team solves its issues the best?
There are other teams with big issues.
How would you like to be CC Sabathia today? Not exactly the time to channel Mike Mussina, in this your contract year.
Justin Verlander? Less velocity, less effectiveness and he is the only starter worth anything in the Tiger rotation.
Kelvin Escobar is out for the season for the Angels. John Lackey is still out.
Eric Bedard is on the DL with his chronic hip problem in Seattle. “Chronic” is not a word the Mariners like hearing about his hip but, its one of the reasons why the Dodgers passed on him.
Teams have issues as the season gets underway. Its how you deal with them which determines your fate.
X Files? We’ve been spammed!!!
this was from an ESPN chat
Chris (Staten Island, NY): Jerry, I know its early in the season but just how long do the Yanks go with Mussina? Teams are batting .313 against him and he’s only struck out 7 batters in 20 innings, both major warning signs. With Darrell Rasner and Kei Igawa pitching great in triple A, unless Mussina improves, I can’t see him staying in the rotation beyond early June if this continues especially if Hughes and Kennedy get it together.
Jerry Crasnick: (12:31 PM ET ) Chris, Mussina is making $11 million this year, and with Igawa and Rasner as the best options, I don’t think he’s being banished from the rotation anytime soon. Want to hear something really discouraging? Mussina posted a 5.72 ERA after the All Star break last season, and opponents hit .342 against him after the break. So chances are he’ll be even worse in August and September than he is now.
—————————
Oh lord, only getting worse
Signs of a red sox fan being a closet Yankee fan.
1.Reading Yankee blogs rather than red sox blogs.
2.Burying a red sox jersey in the new stadium just to be a part of it.
3.Would rather watch a Yankee game than a red sox game and say it was just to watch them lose.
4.They think winning 2 championships in 4 years makes them a dynasty.
5.They say Jeters over rated but just so happens the know every single stat of his.
6.They think pedroia is better than Cano after 1 year.
Did i miss any?
“To strike 100 times out of 600 ab’s. I don’t think that’s having plate discipline thats not making contact period.”
Here are some active players who average over 100 K’s per 162 games for their career:
Alex Rodriguez
Manny Ramirez
Derek Jeter
David Ortiz
Miguel Cabrera
Lance Berkman
Ken Griffey Jr.
Jim Thome
Matt Holliday
David Wright
Chase Utley
Mark Teixeira
Carlos Beltran
Travis Hafner
Derrek Lee
Bobby Abreu
Alex Rios
Jorge Posada
Jeff Kent
Grady Sizemore
Pat Burrell
Ryan Howard
Adam Dunn
Alfonso Soriano
Torii Hunter
Most of these specific guys have very good plate discipline, except for Soriano and Hunter and maybe one other guy. Of course there are dozens of guys I left off the list. But the point is, having lots of K’s doesn’t mean you have no plate discipline. In fact, I would guess the complete opposite and say that there is probably a strong positive correlation between High K’s and Good Plate Discipline. People who don’t strike out much generally don’t see enough pitches to have good plate discipline.
OK. 66 runs over 1.1 innings. I came up with an ERA of 445.50
Kid threw 250 pitches!
“Chris, Mussina is making $11 million this year, and with Igawa and Rasner as the best options, I don’t think he’s being banished from the rotation anytime soon.”
Rasner and Igawa are not the best options however. That’s not the case.
Joba is the best option. It may be too early to put him in the rotation but he’s the guy in waiting. But even past Joba the best options still aren’t Rasner or Igawa. They are Horne and McCutcheon, perhaps Marquez if he gets things figured out.
Horne and McCutcheon have real talent. The yankees are not dependent on Rasner and Igawa.
Mussin doesn’t need to be great or even that good. He just needs to give them 6 slightly below average to average innings until June.
They have a lot of options. More than any other team in baseball and all teams have pitching issues.
Mussina won’t be in the rotation in August or September so its an invalid argument.
They have the best option of any team in baseball to improve its rotation:
Joba Chamberlain.
Won’t cost them players, prospects or anything else.
The Red Sox (who signed Colon to solve their pitching issues), Tigers, Indians, Angels, and Mariners all have starting pitching issues.
None of them have a solution like the Yankees have with Joba.
Its just a matter of when the Yankees pull the trigger on the decision.
“11:25am: Rosenthal says it will be something like $17MM over six seasons plus options for two free agent years. There will also be incentives along the way.â€
interesting strategy
The $17M over 6 will likely save them considerable money, especially if he turns out being anywhere near what’s projected of him.
jeter is just awesome like that. hopefully he keeps it up. i want him to be a hot hitter all year especially at the stadium, not just for the sake of him being a hot hitter which of course we all want every year, but i want him to set the all time hits record for yankee stadium since it’s the last year he can do it. i think he needs 80 something hits at home this year to do it so he should get it.
Cano..maybe he’ll prove to be a slow starter every, it’s just especially annoying this year because he hit, what, 400 something all spring? oh well. at least Bobby and Hideki got off to hot starts so it’s not all our lefties like last season. Giambi has had some bad luck, he’s not striking out too much but he keeps hitting it on the screws right at somebody. even though his average is no good he’s been a lot more productive than Cano.
I hope Moeller (or whoever catches tonight) is ready to throw to throw to 2nd base tonight. if the orioles are anything like they were last year, they’re gonna be running a lot.
SoS,
Red Sox fans who go to LoHud to “discuss” baseball.
Red Sox fans who say they respect Jeter.
CB,
The more I look at this, the more I think its time to transition Joba to the rotation.
By doing now (for a Mid-May transition), he gets enough starts in to help the team, gain experience, and hit his innings limit.
The circumstances (his dads condition) are unfortunate but, its given the Yankees the window to make the move now.
Moose isn’t lasting until June. I looked up his numbers this morning from August 1 on and its not pretty.
I just don’t think he will make the adjustments necessary to give them enough innings that will keep him in the rotation.
SJ: In terms of minor league talent, am I right in thinking that the Yanks have the Sox beat?
This year might be hard. We certainly have the talent to go all the way, but if the Cardinals can win the World Series while being 83-79, anything can happen.
Anyway, better Moose struggles early, so we can deal with the problem early, than him struggling in September.
Here’s another way of looking at it:
If you put Joba in the rotation, and the rotation consists of Pettitte, Joba, Hughes, Wang and Kennedy, don’t you think it gives the Yankees the best chance to win each night?
That leaves 7 guys to battle for the 8th inning role: Farnsworth, Hawkins, Bruney, Ohlendorf, Patterson, McCutcheon and Horne.
You can add Mark Melancon to that list by Late-July.
What are the odds of finding one guy among those 7-8 guys that can pitch the 8th inning?
I’d say they are considerably higher than finding one starter on the open market as good as Joba or hoping (praying is more like it) Moose can be a solid contributor.
Signs of a red sox fan being a closet Yankee fan.
1.Reading Yankee blogs rather than red sox blogs.
2.Burying a red sox jersey in the new stadium just to be a part of it.
3.Would rather watch a Yankee game than a red sox game and say it was just to watch them lose.
4.They think winning 2 championships in 4 years makes them a dynasty.
5.They say Jeters over rated but just so happens the know every single stat of his.
6.They think pedroia is better than Cano after 1 year.
7.Red Sox fans who go to LoHud to “discuss†baseball.
8.Red Sox fans who say they respect Jeter.
If Mussina struggles continue could you see him retiring? I believe he is a man of pride, he won’t want to go out every 5 days getting it handed to him.
Little interesting stat it said lefties are batting .100 against him this year. Maybe he can be a lefty specialist?
Rebecca,
The Yankees have more quality pitching depth in the minors than the Red Sox. That will increase more when Humberto Sanchez, Mark Melancon and Andrew Brackman are ready for primetime.
The Red Sox have the edge right now in position player talent.
That’s going to change in the next year or so as the kids from Trenton and Charleston advance.
There is a lot of high end position talent on those two teams. Which will definitely give the Yankees some interesting options in the years to come.
mel,
first round playoff predictions.
Wizards over Cavs
Magic over Raptore
Pistons over Sixers
Celts over Hawks
Spurs over Suns
Lakers over Nuggets
Jazz over Rockets
Mavs over Hornets
In the off season there was a lot of discussion about the Yanees needing an ace with regards to Santana.
But another player that got a lot of talk was Eric Bedard.
Bedard was nasty last year.
With Felix Hernandez in the rotation the mariners though they might be an ace away from taking a relatively weak division.
The mariners gave up a ton of talent to get him, including Adam Jones who was a top 10 prospect talent. They also sent over several pitchers with good arms. Jones and those pitchers are all playing for Baltimore.
Bedard is back to being injured. He gets hurt a lot. This hip inflammation issue is very strange. He’s had it before and it’s sent him to the DL. He’s been taking very high doses of steroids (not the performance enhancing kind – the anti-inflammatory kind used for medical purposes) to treat the hip inflammation. That just can’t be good.
You need pitching – but you also need depth. Bedard is only signed for 2 years and this year may be a wash. People in Seattle aren’t real optimistic about him signing long term.
It’s very fortunate the Yankees didn’t make a run at Bedard and didn’t give up the type of prospects that would have been needed to get him.
Can someone please explain what the Rays did with Longoria.He has been in the majors all of 1 week and they give him a 4 year deal. What is the advantage they have in paying him now long term. I know it buys out his free agency year but this is a guy who has not even been up in the big a week. Why not wait until later in the year.
“If Mussina struggles continue could you see him retiring? I believe he is a man of pride, he won’t want to go out every 5 days getting it handed to him.”
Jennifer,Didnt he get pissed off and whined last year when he lost his starting spot? I have to dissagree about the pride thing. He is more stubborn than anything.
SoS,
Just took the poll @ espn.com. Those were my exact picks.
Won’t tell you who I picked coming out of the west, but I picked Detroit to come out of the east.
Lots of fans picking the Suns, analysts are leaning towards the Spurs.
All my losers friends here in dumbtown USA (aka Boston) are up in arms about Farnsworth
“It’s very fortunate the Yankees didn’t make a run at Bedard and didn’t give up the type of prospects that would have been needed to get him.”
Now if we can only stay away from C.C.
Gayle,
There are 3 reasons for them doing what they did with Longoria.
1. He is a bigtime talent.
2. From a financial standpoint, it saves them millions in the long run. If he turns out to be a bust, it costs them less than half of what the Yankees burned on Carl Pavano.
3. Most important, they are trying to get a new stadium built in St. Petersburg. One of the hurdles has been the city fathers being concerned they aren’t putting a competitive team on the field.
They need public money to get the deal done. This is now a way of showing them they are serious about building a contending team.
If they spend 17 million now, and that gets them the 300 million in public money to get the stadium deal done, they hit a home run.
Besides depth, Seattle also has a problem with their offense. Their offense is going to have a roguh go if it this season. That entire team is so overrated. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are battling it out with Texas for last place in the AL West come August.
SJ44
“You can add Mark Melancon to that list by Late-July.”
I don’t remember what he said but I remember hearing Cash say something during ST that made me think the emergence of Melancon is what he is waiting for to give the go on Joba going to the rotation.
OMG, top recruit broke the Waterford crystal National Championship in Urban Meyer’s office. $35K.
Regarding Moose. You won’t see as much resistance as you saw last year. He’s already been through this. He may be stubborn, but he’s not brain dead. He came around after he accepted the fact that he just didn’t have it anymore.
SJ –
if Joba’s return is delayed for a prolonged period of time then I think you’re plan makes a lot of sense.
He needs to be in the rotation – it’s just a matter of when.
It may be a small point but I’d rather he get stretched out in the majors rather than in the minors after he does his reconditioning work in Tampa. I’d like as many of the 140 innings he has to be thrown in the majors as possible.
I’ve been looking over some things with Verlander because his starts have been so bad. He’s sitting at 91-93. I’d heard he was trying to throw slower to pick up movement but he keeps getting bombed.
I went back over his workload – it’s really not pretty. Huge jump between 2005 to 2006 – in 2005 he threw 129 innings. In 2006 he threw 207 including the post season.
I just want to make sure Joba’s innings are kept in check.
S.o.S.27
I do not think Mike cried last year. Yeah he was probably ticked at being bumped. But I don’t recall hearing him say peep about it. In fact looking on it, I think he agreed with what happened.
“Won’t tell you who I picked coming out of the west.”
Hmmm? They dont happen to have a ball hog/wanna be gm on their team do they?
Jennifer,
It was either last year or the year before. He said it to the media. That he didnt understand the move. I thought it was last year.
jennifer,
Moose was definitely pissed when he found he was being skipped in the rotation. Had some angry words. Stewed in his juices, but came around with a great attitude. Actually did well, too.
Can someone remind me how many innings Joba is projected to be able to pitch this year?
Before the year started Hank Steinbrenner said that Joba would start at some point during this year but I don’t think they will make that change until they are confident he can finish the season as a starter without jeopardizing his arm health.
I think it is 140 ish.
SoS,
Dude’s got 4000 assists, 3rd in the franchise behind Magic & Jerry West. And he’s a SG, not a PG.
SJ–
I guess that makes sense I guess what suprised me was that this was the team that coming out of the Spring wanted to keep him down to delay his service time yet here he is in the league 1 week and they offer him a long term deal.
If that was in there plans anyway why not bring him up out of Spring and not go through the charade and the media/fan backlash for that time period.
Pat,
Melancon has pitched 7 innings in his last 4 outings in Tampa and hasn’t been scored upon in those innings.
He gave up 6 runs in his first two outings (1 2/3 innings) of the season. His first live action since his surgery.
They seem to be using him for 2 innings at a time now. A friend of mine asked Mark Newman a few weeks ago what Melancon needed to advance quickly, and he gave a one word answer, “innings”.
That tells me they are fast tracking him. Obviously, they are going to pull back if there are injury or performance issues.
It looks like they are going to try and push him quickly through the system. We could see him in the Bronx the second half of the season.
Moose is a big part of the club in terms of helping with the development of Hughes and IPK – the team put the two puppies on either side of his locker.
The handling of an established, respected pro like Moose is going to be a challenge for Joe G. I got the sense last year that Torre did not handle Moose’s removal from the rotation very well. I think it is likely that Girardi has a better relationship with more communication.
It could be a good early test for Girardi to handle some adversity and big egos.
The Yankees have much more pitching depth than the red sox in the minor leagues.
Coming into the season according to baseball america of the sox top 30 prospects only 10 are pitchers (one was clay buchholz now in the majors).
Of the yankees top 30 prospects 20 were pitchers (3 being joba, kennedy, and Ohlendorf).
Of the 9 top pitching prospects the Sox have only 1 of them was in triple A (and that was Craig Hansen). Most of the remaining 8 were in single A ball as I remember.
in AAA the yankees have Horne, Marquez, Patterson, Ramirez.
So not only do the yankees have more overall pitching talent but the distribution of the talent is also a major difference – more of the yankee prospects are at the upper minor league levels (and closer to major league level) than what the sox have.
The position player prospects are almost the reverse with the sox having better position players in the upper minors.
But this race between the sox and the yankees (and yankees vs. Detroit) is going to come down to pitching and specifically pitching depth.
SJ44,
I agree. Cashman’s suggestions hint to the emergence of Sanchez and particularly Melancon that will allow him to move Joba to the rotation.
CB and SJ: Thanks!
Will be interesting to see how it plays out. Can’t wait to see pitching matchups with the Sox that don’t involve Beckett…(hey, Buchholz is 0-2 against us!)
Have there been cases of pitchers recovering after a burnout from a hike in pitching load?
Latest Joba statement…
“After several difficult days, my father is feeling much better. He is still in the critical care unit of the hospital and more tests await him, but he is off the ventilator and breathing on his own. Each day he’s acting more and more like himself, and he’s even giving people grief – myself included – because the hospital doesn’t carry Yankees games on television.
“When things like this occur in life, you certainly take notice of how much your teammates become more like family members. Their unconditional support, along with that of so many fans, has made a very tough time easier to deal with. Everyone’s love has been felt by my entire family, and it has brought great comfort to us when we have needed it most.
“I look forward to being reunited with my manager, coaches and teammates so I can thank each of them personally for all that they have done for my family.â€
Robbie will come around.
No, the Yankees should not pursue Manny as their RF after this season. Maybe as a DH, but definitely not RF. And I would still be very reluctant to go after him at all.
This offseason we have a ton of money coming off the books..Giambi, Moose, Pavano. Invest that in a solid pitcher…Sabathia being the obvious candidate. I think if he has a good season on the field and not too much distraction off of it, Pettitte really could come back.
Anyhow, better to focus on THIS season and not get ahead of ourselves.
in AAA the yankees have Horne, Marquez, Patterson, Ramirez.
Wouldn’t exactly view Patterson and Ramirez as prodpects. Patterson is 29 years old who’s never been good enough for AAA, nevermind the majors. Ramirez is 27 and a terrific illustration of how much difference there is between the hitters in AAA and MLB. Good K numbers in the bigs, but overall he was no mystery to hitters.
Horne is most compelling of this lot and the closest to being able to make real contribution. He’s come back nicely from the TJ and has seen his command improve as he’s moved up the system. Wonder if his arm can withstand relief pitching, but he can help on some level.
Marquez is getting roasted in AAA. He’s a young guy though. Think he’s going to need the full season in SWB before he’s useful in the bigs.
SJ
Using the strength in numbers approach, who else is on the radar for fast tracking?
“SoS,
Dude’s got 4000 assists, 3rd in the franchise behind Magic & Jerry West. And he’s a SG, not a PG.”
Uhhhh. First thing, they havnt had a point guard on the team since Magic. Second, he got his 4000 assists in the first qaurter of every game. 1 quarter-not 3 quarters-is.So he’s still a ball hog.
Joe–That was wonderful to read.
Joba sure doesn’t sound like a 22 year old…much more mature than his years.
Rebecca:
Key is to do well when your top guys go. Yanks are 6-1 in starts by Wang/Pettitte. Similarly, the Red Sox are 6-1 in games started by Beckett/Matsuzaka. Key to a 95 win season is going about 20 games over .500 in the 65-70 games pitched by your 1-2 pitchers. Means you only need to be about 7-8 games over .500 in the games started by everyone else.
Phil better get his head out of that dark hole on his backside before tonight’s game…Girardi sounds about ready to give him the axe with a quickness if he does not.
Problem is, who takes his place?
I haven’t given up, he’ll get there. It just comes back to having realistic expectations of 21 year old rookies.
CC Sabathia?? NO No NO.
The guy is stinking right now and has shown that he can’t pitch under stress, he wasn’t lights out in the post season, it’s just that we stunk more.
CC will not survive in NY. Trust me.
Stay away from CC.
Pat,
For the majors this year? Dan McCutcheon, IMO. He can pitch. He’s 25 and I think he can be an asset to the team the second half of the year.
In the system in general? One guy. Jesus Montero.
The kid is a beast. With the bat, he is 200 AB’s away from being a AAA level player. He’s that good. The glove? Still a real work in progress.
That said, if he keeps hitting the way he is, he will get promoted real soon.
People think I’m nuts but, if he continues to hit the way he is hitting, he may very well finish the year in AA. Even if its as a DH.
When you can hit like Jesus, you rocket through a farm system.
He is such a good hitter. A Cabrera/Vlad type of hitter for such a young guy.
He doesn’t strike out a lot, has unreal power to the opposite field and will take his walks.
For an 18 year old kid (he won’t be 19 until Late-November), he is a special talent with the bat.
“Wouldn’t exactly view Patterson and Ramirez as prodpects.”
You might not but Baseball America does. And in general they talk to a fairly decent range of scouts both inside and outside the organization.
Both are guys who reinvented themselves in the Ind pendent League so sure they are going to be older.
But that doesn’t mean they can’t help the team in the short run. Paterson in particular (and Baseball America really liked Patterson a lot, even before his impressive spring training).
Patterson again may be older but he only signed with the yankees in June 2006. So basically 1 1/2 season later he is all the way in AAA.
That is actually very fast movement.
Ramirez signed towards the end of 2006 and in less than a year was in AAA.
Neither Patterson nor Ramirez are finished products.
Again – these guys aren’t foundational prospects. They aren’t key pieces of the long term future.
But it actually does help to have some older, more mature guys who might be able to help the team in the short run.
And again – the point of the comparison was to look at how pitching depth from the minors could help the yankees and sox this year.
It’s important to have talent in A ball. But it’s not going to help you in the short run.
Older guys like Patterson may not have a ton of talent or ceiling but they could help.
And the point stands – the sox don’t even have talent like Patterson or Ramirez in AAA to fall back on.
That’s why they are still so heavily relying on 42 year old Mike Timlin.
Scott Patterson is old for a prospect. He’s not Mike Timlin old.
Cano needs Bowa in his face to keep up his work ethic
Has anyone hear/read about pitching moves from Scranton for this weekend.Have been checking out Chad Jennings and he doesnt have anything.
Girardi sounds about ready to give him the axe with a quickness if he does not.
Haven’t read what Girardi said, but I imagine it’s more about him wanting Hughes being more agressive about pounding the strike zone. He pitches like he did against Toronto and gets hit, Joe can’t really bitch. The 7 BB’s issued in 5 innings against KC and Boston is another matter.
Mel.
You have me a tad nervous as I do come here to read and occasionaly post about baseball. I also respect Jeter, Posada, Matsui and Rivera…
Maybe I have “tendencies”…lol
CB ans SJ44, Some really good posts today. The fact of the matter is that pitching in MLB is thin in general and both the Yanks and Sox are in better shape than most.
Have a good weekend all. -dennis
“And the point stands – the sox don’t even have talent like Patterson or Ramirez in AAA to fall back on.”
True enough, CB. Did hear that Hanson has been light’s out so far in Pawtucket though.
SJ44, I like the way you’re thinking with stretching Joba out now.
And I think we should just go with a 6 man rotation, making sure Wang and Pettitte pitch every 5 days.
That would limits innings enough for all 3 young guns to last the season.
Of course the bullpen needs to sure up a bit more before I’d say that’s overall best for the team.
The other question is, is Joba mentally ready to make the change being the mind-state he has probably been this week.
Nice statement by Joba. Makes me love him even more. He is certainly very mature for his age.
Could Hansen help the Sox this year in the pen if he figures things out? Sure. But his career trajectory has really fallen hard. So I don’t know. I’m not even sure how high the sox are on him anymore. I could also see Justin Masterson helping them in the pen this year if they want to push him and not worry about him developing his secondary pitches.
“You have me a tad nervous as I do come here to read and occasionaly post about baseball. I also respect Jeter, Posada, Matsui and Rivera…”
Hello Dennis. Your not alone. The others just havnt admitted to being one yet. Welcome.
SJ44, if Montero is going to move that quickly through the system wouldn’t you think twice about signing Texeira?
Supposedly the “St John’s slider” is back. Just checked his numbers. They pretty much mirror Edwar’s to this point. But the IL and EL are pitcher’s leagues, so who knows how any of it will translate in the bigs. As it stands now, I wouldn’t believe in either of them.
66 at bats for Cano. TWO walks. Jose Molina has done a fine job, but he hasn’t drawn a walk yet in 33 AB. Jeter is supposed to set the table. Two walks in 41 AB. The club is 10th in the league in drawing walks. Posada 3 walks in 41 at bats. Last year they were 3rd in the league.
It’s like an infestation of Oscar Azocar-itis.
Justin Masterson is a better prospect than Craig Hansen. I don’t think Hansen, despite his AAA numbers, is in the Sox long term plans.
I think they will hype him enough to try and trade him.
Six man rotations never work.
This ain’t brain surgery. If one guy (Moose) continues to struggle, you just remove him from the rotation. You don’t need to go to a 6 man rotation to cover up the problem.
That’s the thing about bad pitching. You can’t hide it. If a guy is going bad, you just have to get him out of the rotation.
They probably aren’t there with Moose yet. However, if this keeps up, I have a feeling, despite public proclaimations to the contrary by the Yankees, his rope is pretty short this year.
Dennis,
There was a sox fan here yesterday who was rather abrasive and insulting (I know that goes both ways with yankees fans posting on sox boards but yesterday it was an issue here). I think that’s part of the sentiment on the board today.
Every post of yours I’ve read has been a positive one. If you want to talk baseball I don’t think people would mind.
SJ Thanks
I was talking about pitchers and McCutcheon was the answer I was looking for.
My brother doesn’t follow the minors at all and came home from seeing spring training this year singing Montero’s praises. He was shocked and even more impressed when I told him he was 18.
All Joe said was Hughes needs to step up. Thats it, read into it what you will. Hughes knows he needs to step up.
JAX:
Montero is only 18……..probably. From Low A to the bigs will probably be a 2, maybe 3 year process. Can’t have too much talent on your team, so you don’t let him get in the way of signing Tex. He’s probably going to want 6-7 years though, so who’s to say?
Jax,
Depends on how they see Montero for the future. A DH, a catcher, a first baseman or an OF.
Here’s the thing about Montero and why that it doesn’t affect what they do with Teixiera.
He could be a DH/backup catcher for 2 or 3 years and still help the team because of his bat.
If it takes him longer to learn the catching position but, can really hit, the Yankees could take their time developing his catching skills. While, at the same time, have his bat (if he is the hitting prodigy I think he may be) in the lineup everyday.
CB.
Also looking for Delcarmen to contribute as well. He has a great arm but has has struggled with command.
I believe Baseball America has rated the Sox #2 behind Tampa in talent in the minor leagues. Both Cashman and Theo have done a great job in the draft the last 3-4 years. I think it is more important than ever for the Yanks and Sox to develop their own playes as they come through the “pressure cooker” of playing in Boston and New York. I think it is positive to see Bucholtz and Hughes take their lumps in the rivalry. At least we know that they have been through it before. I would rather that than trade or sign for the likes of a ….Renteria or Javier Vasquez? Productive players now but were lost in our markets.
-dennis
SJ,
From our conversation yesterday about Melky. Out of all the hitters yesterday. I thought he was the one with the best plan up at the plate. He seems stronger this year. His outs are hard outs. I even like his drag bunts attempts. He just seems like a fearless competitor. Im excited to see the finishing product.
What do you think of having him lead off and therefore Damon take his role.
Jesus Montero question – if he keeps hitting like he is, dominates AA, how many ABs before he goes to AAA?
If he dominates AAA, do we see him in the majors next year?
Glove is obviously a work in progress – is there any way he can DH and work on catching on the side? You can’t keep that bat down.
Of all the Sox fans that post in here, Dennis is FAR AND AWAY, the best poster.
He isn’t a troll and isn’t filled with the passive/aggressive nonsense so many Sox fans are filled with in here.
He’s a good poster and he should be welcomed to post here anytime.
I hear ya SJ, but in this case, with 3 rookies in the rotation and not real bullpen possiblity for Moose, a six man rotation, even though it is unorthodox, might just be the right option.
I think it could save each young gun arms about 25 innings over the course of the year.
Otherwise I do not want Joba in the rotation now and then have management get skittish at years end when Joba and the others approach their inning limits.
You figure that must be a sticking point for Girardi not to be blamed for burning out young arms a 2nd time (not that I believe he did the first time).
“verlander sucks because hes so damn skinny. he needs to lift weights so he can throw the ball harder. right now he looks like a pipsqueek.”
So does Mariano. Mariano sucks.
SJ,
If/When they move Moose out of the rotation in late May or early June for Joba, would he become the long man or would they just get rid of him and eat what is left of the contract? I almost think of Moose in the bullpen as a wasted roster spot, when they could bring someone else up to do the job. I say that because if a starter is out after 3 like last night, bringing Moose in to give 4 or 5 more runs in 3 innings knocks the Yankees out of the game. A good long man on this Yankee team with the offense they have can steal them some games when the starting pitching is awful. Those few games could mean the difference in making the playoffs or not, or even winning the division or being a wild card.
Actually that was a good post Dennis. I just hope the future dividends paid go in the Yankees favor, but either way, you know both teams are positioned for post season for years to come.
Dennis,
That’s something I’ve wondered – do Sox fans actually believe in DelCarmen? Whenever I’ve seen him he looks to be a guy who has a great arm but keeps throwing harder when he gets in trouble. A thrower more than a pitcher.
Do you guys think he’s making progress on figuring it out? There’s no question on his raw talent – but he almost looks too raw too me.
I thought it was fairly telling that Tito seemed to be going to Aardsma before DelCarmen against the yanks (Aardsma threw very well).
The Sox have a terrific system, there’s no doubt It’s definitely top 5 (I thought texas might be #2 but could be wrong).
I was more commenting on how the talent is distributed between position players and pitchers, particularly in the upper minors.
The yankees don’t have any Jed Lowerie types. Don’t think the Sox have any Alan Horne types (by that I mean very good AAA prospects).
It’s an interesting contrast.
“Also looking for Delcarmen to contribute as well. He has a great arm but has has struggled with command.”
That’s possibly the most common refrain one hears about relief prospects…the vast majority never seem to put it together. Personally, I hope Delcarmen is like the majority of his peers, and never develops the ability to consistently pound the zone. For obvious reasons
Either way Delcarmen, Hansen and Okajima makes a solid 3 in front of Paps assuming Hansen is back to the St Johns Hansen.
I love how in the one televised ST AB Montero had, he jacked one. Seems fitting for a guy we’re hyping as much as him.
What I can’t get over is that he’s a year younger than my younger brother.
I know Moose is a 10/5 guy, but couldn’t they trade him. There’s a lot of National Leauge teams looking for pitching (heck a lot of teams in general), he might garner some interest and be able to turn himself around in the weaker NL.
“Moose is a big part of the club in terms of helping with the development of Hughes and IPK – the team put the two puppies on either side of his locker.”
moose is the worst influence to put near those kids. what’s he going to do , teach them how to make lots of money and never win anything?
hughes and kennedy would both get killed if they used mussina’s pitching philosophy.
they should put mariano between them ,or pettitte, or posada.
anyone but mussina.
“I think it could save each young gun arms about 25 innings over the course of the year.”
While making their schedule exceedingly erratic and thus making it difficult for any of them to settle into a routine. You can’t have 2 guys pitch every fifth day and then four guys sort of assort in around them. It’s not a recipe for success for a young pitcher…you want them in a groove, not constantly futzing with their between-start routine.
SJ44,
But Moose is a veteran, WITH experience.
Hasn’t the guy never pitched a single inning in relief in his career? Do you think he would accept the relief move or (more unrealistically) the Yanks would trade him to an NL contender?
SOS
The thing I’ve always thought about Melky is that while he might not be the most talented player, he always seems to be involved in a big play somewhere in a game. It’s like someone sprinkled him with some of the same magic stardust that Jeter was sprinkled with.
V:
Let’s let Montero get to Hi-A first before we have him dominating AAA. Still aways for him to go. He’s hitting exceptionally well in Low-A but still needs work on some aspects of his game (see 11/2 K to BB ratio in 60+ AB’s).
I might have missed it.If sox are ranked #2,where are we ranked?
Dennis,
We’re basically one and the same, us Yankee fans and Sox fans.
Just like couples who’ve married forever. Looking at the parents to see who the kids look like, and the parents start looking like each other!
“hughes and kennedy would both get killed if they used mussina’s pitching philosophy.”
Yeah, wouldn’t want them learning about changing speeds and out-thinking the batter. that’d be awful. Moose isn’t great now, but he was still succeeding back in 06 with a FB that was 88-90. He clearly has some insight on how to pitch.
V,
Sure he can. His ETA, if he stays a manchild with the bat, could be July of 2009. Next year, Giambi will be gone. Damon? I think either he or Matsui are in their last season here. If I had to pick one most likely to be gone, its Damon.
Just for fun, let’s try to figure out the 13 position players for next season:
The guarantees: Arod, Jeter, Cano, Tex (I think the Yankees are going to sign him), Matsui, Gardner (I think he replaces Damon next year), Cabrera, Abreu (I think he is back next year), Posada and Molina.
That’s 10 spots. You need a backup middle infielder. It will probably be Gonzalez.
That leaves 2 spots. Lots of options with those spots.
I believe if Montero dominates with the bat, he will be on this roster by Mid-Season next year. The bigger question is, does he stay a catcher? I don’t know about that yet.
Lots of things happen to players as they develop. There are potholes at every turn.
However, if his bat continues to be like this, he isn’t going to be in the minors much past mid-season 2009, IMO.
“you want them in a groove, not constantly futzing with their between-start routine.”
I’d rather they futz with a routine. What’s that take, 10 minutes of thought a week, that’s where the Stanford grad can add value.
Anyway I would rather they spend time thinking about their pitching than running blogs or making commercials.
There is an intriguing intangible surrounding Melky.
This team is walking around with a steel ball and chain carrying the albatross contracts of Giambi, Mussina, Damon, and Farnsworth and none show any indication of turning their careers around. It’s the nearest thing to having a 21-man roster.
Yes, it’s a young season but none of the four give a fan the confidence to think they’ll be major factors in the Yankees putting together a solid win streak and push the team into possessing some swagger.
SoS,
So not true! We’ve had Fisher and you know that guy from Ruckers Park. Ummm. Smush. Yeah, that guy.
“Hasn’t the guy never pitched a single inning in relief in his career? ”
Except for those three innings in game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, I don’t think so. Maybe last year he got into a game in relief.
Back to bullpen machinations…does anyone think it’d make sense to put pettitte on the bereavement list retroactive to yesterday and pull up another arm? I assume they could do it…and he’d come off in time for his start sunday.
Glenn don’t forget the Pavano contract, but at least he just takes a 40 man roster spot.
“If he dominates AAA, do we see him in the majors next year?”
For Montero to be in the majors next year he’d be on the same development track as Justin Upton.
And Justin Upton struggled as a 19 year old in the majors a great deal.
Cam Maybin also did the same thing and struggled a lot.
i was browsing around on the milb.com site out of boredom. any reason why Carmen Angelini is listed as a 1B? Type-o?
“The thing I’ve always thought about Melky is that while he might not be the most talented player, he always seems to be involved in a big play somewhere in a game. It’s like someone sprinkled him with some of the same magic stardust that Jeter was sprinkled with.”
pat-Exactly what i think. Good way to put it.
Delcarmen is very raw. I do not have faith in him right now. He looks lights out at times and then lost at times. He went to high school right behind Fenway Park so I think most of our hope in him is a live arm and some regional bias as well as a potential good story.
BTW, You have to be encouraged with Hawkins and Bruney.
-dennis
As far as Moose is concerned, I think the Yankees first inclination (as it was last year) was to put him in the bulllpen to figure things out.
Its a “classier” way to saying “longman” to a veteran pitcher.
He has no trade value. He makes too much money and has a full no trade clause.
He isn’t retiring during the season.
He will either:
1. Figure it out and finish the year in the rotation.
Or
2. Be banished to the ‘pen, in long relief, and finish his last season in NY in that role.
“I’d rather they futz with a routine. What’s that take, 10 minutes of thought a week,”
No, it requires changing the days on which you throw your side sessions, altering your workouts, basically a large set of things that all fight against being in a groove on the mound. Pitching consistently is all about muscle memory and confidence. Having 6 days between starts, then 5, then 7, then 5, then 6…it’s basically designed to keep guys from getting in a rhythm. Terrible idea.
“Just like couples who’ve married forever. Looking at the parents to see who the kids look like, and the parents start looking like each other!”
Would that make the Mets fans the step child?
” BTW, You have to be encouraged with Hawkins and Bruney.”
I feel good about Hawkins, and we’ve debated Bruney a lot here on the blog. He’s had some good performances, but there’s a lot of worry that, when the going gets tough, he reverts to type and starts throwing balls followed by meatballs. He’s going to have to pound the zone in the majority of a good 20 outings before I start to feel like he’s changed his stripes.
Why would they put Pettitte on the bereavement list? Did something happen to his dad?
I think Moose will put all of us on the bereavement list with another start like last nights!
Gotta think they will callup somebody for tonights game and send Albie down. He threw a ton of pitches yesterday and they will need another arm for the weekend.
Saucy,
Its a typo. Angelini has played short in every game at Charleston this season.
I’ve said all along, Melky is a very, very good player.
He’s going to have a solid season.
“If sox are ranked #2,where are we ranked?”
The yanks were either #4 or #5 (#5 I think – two years ago they were like 20th or something).
The top 5 prospect organizations are Tampa Bay (by a lot), Texas, Boston, New York and i’m forgetting the other one but I think it was the Reds. Not sure of the order after tampa.
I do know that when BA ranked their top prospects only by pitching the yankees were #2 behind Tampa.
Mel.
I do not know which parent I look like. However as the days go by and I look in the mirror I keep wondering who that is in the gorilla suit….
-dennis
“Terrible idea.”
History is litterred with those who said those same words. Truth is, a lot of old trains of thought are not necessarily the optimal way in a unique situation.
Like it or not, the Yankees are in a unique situation. They are attempting to transition from old pitching to young while still reaching the playoffs. Far as I know, it’s never been done. Even Boston missed the playoffs two years ago.
CB.
Do you have the link? I am pretty certain the Sox were #2.
However, I have been wrong before.
-dennis
Pat: That’s a great way to put it.
Melky’s value to the team isn’t the power bat or that he hits at a .320 clip; it’s that he (for the most part) plays the best defense we’ve seen in center since before Bernie’s prime, and has a knack for making that one play–offense or defense–that can save a game.
The smartest move the Yankees have made thus far is not trading him.
“So not true! We’ve had Fisher and you know that guy from Ruckers Park. Ummm. Smush. Yeah, that guy.’
Yeah. If you count dribbling the ball for 3 seconds and give it back to Kobe as a point gaurd.
I’m glad the Yankees signed Montero instead of Tony Pena’s son. Francisco Pena is a nice catching prospect but Montero is on another level.
You have to have balance in the lineup. Can’t just be a lineup of mashers.
A guy like Melky makes pitchers work. He’s become a tough out.
You know what the big problem with the Yankee lineup is? Too many guys who aren’t workers of pitchers.
The early walk totals reflect that.
Guys like Youkilis and Pedroia are very tough outs. They raise pitch counts and they make pitchers work to get them out.
Aside from Melky, who does that in the Yankee lineup right now?
Dennis,
I wish i did have a link – I actually looked for it but couldn’t find it on the BA site or goole (get a lot of the top 10 for different organizations). For whatever reason it’s buried in their site somewhere. I may have been in one of their “Ask BA” columns.
But if you’re certain that the Sox are #2 I’ll buy that – I’m honestly just going by my recollection on the order.
I’m certain the yankees were #2 with respect to pitching. I also am definitely sure about the Sox being ranked ahead of the yankees in terms of overall talent. I just don’t remember where the sox were exactly – for some reason i thought it might have been texas but again i’m probably off on that.
Rebecca.
Well said. I really like the way Melky plays the game.
-dennis
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3353025
Longoria deal done.
I would add Abreu to the list of yankees who usually work pitchers deep into counts
“Why would they put Pettitte on the bereavement list? Did something happen to his dad?”
He left the team after throwing his side session on weds or thurs because there was a death in the family.
“History is litterred with those who said those same words. Truth is, a lot of old trains of thought are not necessarily the optimal way in a unique situation.”
That doesn’t mean that every new idea is a good one. Is there anyone who thinks that a pitcher will be unaffected by constantly varying the number of days between his starts? We’re not talking about a standard six-man rotation here…we’re talking about pettitte and wang going every fifth day and the other four assorting in around them. So…
Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes, Ian
Wang, Pettitte, Moose, Joba, Hughes
Wang, Pettitte, Ian, Moose, Joba
Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, Ian, Moose
Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes, Ian
Guys wind up all over the map, varying between 6 and 8 days between starts. That is NOT the way to set your young pitchers up for success.
Whozat it was to attend a funeral on his wife’s side of the family
Also, you guys might be interested:
Game notes
Francona said the odds are against 3B Mike Lowell (sprained left thumb) being able to come off the disabled list as soon as he’s eligible, on April 25. … New York’s Jorge Posada (arm fatigue) hopes to catch Saturday in Baltimore.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280417110
CB.
I do not think there is any question that Yanks have better pitching prospects.
On another note, did anyone see Sheffield get plunked and then pick up the ball and toss it back to the pitcher? I despise most things he does however it was a riot…
-dennis
“Too many guys who aren’t workers of pitchers.”
Well, they’re supposed to be. Damon, that’s supposed to be his calling card. Last year he saw 4.5 or so PPA. This year, I dunno. Abreu, Giambi…they both do that, no? ARod? Posada and Matsui take their walks too…
Maybe guys aren’t doing that right now, but I thought in general working pitchers was the calling card of the Yankee offensive plan.
The Longoria deal is a steal for the Rays. The kid has tremendous potential on the field but he gives them a face of the franchise off of it which may be even more important for an organization looking to soldify an identity.
Don’t know if you guys saw this, but apparently Ortiz and Giambi have been comforting each other during their respective slumps. This is what Ortiz said recently:
“I fight. That’s my personality. I fight. Me and [Jason] Giambi. We were born to do things. Nobody can take it away from us. That’s what I told Giambi. We’ll get it done. People just need to relax.”
Here’s to hoping Giambi comes out of his slump before Ortiz does.
“Whozat it was to attend a funeral on his wife’s side of the family”
I figured. But still…why wouldn’t that allow them to put him on the bereavement list?
Good point Gayle. Two guys in the lineup. That’s it. Its not enough.
Damon and Giambi used to be able to work over pitchers. Now they don’t. Mainly because both guys bats are so slow these, they are starting to cheat to get their bats through the zone.
By cheating, I mean they are trying to force the bat through the zone quicker because they aren’t confidence of their hands/bat speed.
Good hitters allow the pitch to come to them as much as they can. The later they can wait on the ball, the harder they can hit it.
When your skills decline, as is the case (IMO) with both Damon and Giambi, you cheat more and try to force the bat through the zone.
The result? You take fewer pitches, work fewer counts, and leave yourself vulnerable to being worked over by the pitcher.
because he will be back before his next start and as a starter no need to change his status whereas Joba because of his position as well as the time needed it is a different situation.
The over/under for time it takes posters here to start with the ridiculous, unreal trade proposals for Moose is set at 1.5 weeks.
Who takes the over? Who takes the under?
Mike.
Under. We may even hear a Mussina for Texiera deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280417110
Check out the game notes at the bottom–looks like Posada will be back to catching soon.
Is it thus bad I’ve become attached to Molina and Moeller? (What is it with the Yankees and catchers whose surname begin with ‘M’, anyway?)
“Yeah, wouldn’t want them learning about changing speeds and out-thinking the batter. that’d be awful. ”
so you think baseball is mostly about out thinking people?
you think manny out thinks mussina?
… beckett out thinks opposing hitters?
… papelbon out thinks hitters with two pitches?
the game is a very physical game. it’s not just a chess game out of baseball prospectus.
the smartest baseball players know what to think about and what not to think about.
mussina at this point in his career is baseball dumb with his refusal to pitch up and in and retaliate against hitters when necessary. he has nothing he can tell hughes and kennedy. they both already get it about changing speeds and location.
You know what the scary thing is?
Despite being a pretty flawed team (and they are this season), the Yankees are still 9-8 and holding their own in this early part of the season.
If this was last year, they would be 4-13 right now.
They just have to fix a few things and tighten up in some other areas. If they do, the potential is there for them to be very good.
I just think those “few things” they have to clean up are going to be painful.
Mostly because its going to involve sitting some veteran players and moving on with youngsters. That’s never easy and its particulary hard when you are a veteran team like the Yankees.
Dennis – I hadn’t thought of that one. I was tinking people would jump on the Torre connection and want to send him to LA for Matt Kemp. As in all crazy trades we would throw in prospects and cash.
Pat, I’m thinking the Rays signed Longoria long term because the Rays have heard a bit of a backlash in leaving Evan in the minors even though he outplayed Aybar in the spring, just to delay the arbitration clock. Now they made a deal to get some e
Yanks have 54 walks
Damon has 10
Giambi has 9
BTW Sox have 60
Jays lead with 71
just pointing it out – gotta believe they will be among the leaders at season end
get some extended time without arbitration and ill feelings.
“moose is the worst influence to put near those kids. what’s he going to do , teach them how to make lots of money and never win anything?”
Yeah Moose can’t help them with anything. Except for this maybe:
Phil Hughes, the Yankees’ top prospect, showed Mussina a similar grip one day last spring training. Hughes had pitched after Mussina in an exhibition game, and Mussina had noticed him struggling to command his curveball.
Hughes held his curveball just like Mussina’s, but with his index finger brushing against his middle finger. He tried it Mussina’s way, with that sliver of separation, and noticed a difference.
“It was a lot better,†Hughes said. “I’ve just kind of stuck with it, and it’s really come a long way.â€
Source: http://tinyurl.com/6pdhle
I don’t have a problem with Moose mentoring the young guys.
The guy knows pitching. The problem is, he doesn’t have it anymore.
Doesn’t mean he can impart his wisdom on the young kids.
I addressed this in a post last year with some good data to back it up. The blanket “being more patient” doesn’t work for every hitter. Robbie Cano will be much better-served to remain aggressive early in the count. Let’s go to the tape, from Baseball Reference:
Situation/Cano Career Slugging % after reaching that count
First Pitch: .565 (324 ABs/balls in play)
1-0: .498 (614 ABs where a 1-0 count was reached)
2-0: .500 (164 ABs)
2-1: .482 (224)
3-0: .310 (29)
3-1: .394 (71)
So when he works into a hitter’s count, Cano’s slugging % is actually lower than when he hits the first pitch. And also note how it drops further when he gets to 3 balls. Of course some of these ABs result in walks too but he has taken so few BBS in his career that I think it is safe to ignore. So there is no net benefit for him to be in a hitter count since his productivity actually drops realtive to hacking at the first pitch.
The flipside of this of course is that “working the count” sometimes results in taking a strike or two. So lets check results where he is in a pitcher’s count.
Count/SLG % (#Abs)
0-1: .427 (749 ABs)
0-2: .309 (288)
1-2: .375 (349)
1-1: .429 (539)
2-2: .391 (252)
Pretty striking. Not only does his slugging percentage fall dramatically as expected but he is much more likeyl to be in a pitcher’s count than a hitter’s count if he doesn’t put one of the first 3 pitches in play. (As evidenced by only 1002 total ABs at 1-0, 2-0 or 2-1 compared to 1925 ABS at 0-1, 0-2, 1-1 or 1-2 in the situations where he doesn’t put the first pitch in play.)
My intuition tells me that he is fairly unique in this respect. As a quick check, I looked at his polar opposite a Proefssional Hitter (TM) like Bobby Abreu:
First Pitch Career Slg%: .619
After 1-0: .665
After 2-0: .840
After 2-1: .702
After 3-0: .545
After 3-1: .816
After 0-1: .445
After 0-2: .352
After 1-2: .309
After 1-1: .469
After 2-2: .392
Contrary to poular belief, Abreu does not hit well with two strikes. In fact he and Robby post fairly comparable results when falling into pitcher’s counts. But in dramatic contrast to Cano, Bobby becomes a much better, almost Ruthian hitter when he works the count to his favor which compensates for the risk of taking strikes. And this also ignores the considerable number of walks he works from these hitters sounts.
SJ44,
What youngsters do the Yankees have at their disposal at this point in time? If there were any available young pitching talent in Scranton, bring ‘em up! For all the hype about our depth of pitching prospects, there isnt anyone ready or available at this time.
I think it’s still too early to give up on Damon or Giambi just yet. But the clock is definitely ticking.
“It was a lot better,†Hughes said. “I’ve just kind of stuck with it, and it’s really come a long way.—
umm , hughes era is 9.00. that would be a good story if hughes era was 3.00 .
” Doesn’t mean he can impart his wisdom on the young kids.”
what if he tells them it’s not worth pitching up and in to set up their low and away off speed pitches?
moose knows his stuff, you don’t win 250+ games by not knowing.
“moose knows his stuff, you don’t win 250+ games by not knowing.”
What are the chances that every batter that Moose has ever faced blinked at the exact wrong time in their at-bat? His 250 would be a little skewed
“umm , hughes era is 9.00. that would be a good story if hughes era was 3.00 .”
You do realize that Hughes has only started 3 games so far this year, right? Anyway, my point is you said Hughes and Kennedy can learn nothing from Moose.
I just pointed out to you where Hughes has said that Moose helped him with his curve which IIRC is considered his best pitch.
I emailed Pete to see if maybe he or another reporter could follow up on this #21 controversy. Turns out Oneill’s had a couple chances at redemption since first disgracing himself on this issue with his remarks in that early game this season:
1) on WFAN
2) via the AP
Both times he again sounded like an arrogant a** and made things worse.
“O’Neill, a broadcaster for the YES Network, isn’t scheduled to work another game until next week in Chicago.” Hopefully he will make things right then.
Http://tinyurl.com/57vaqh
See also: http://tinyurl.com/65tzjj
raymagnetic-
for every good thing mussina could tell hughes and kennedy, he’ll tell them something that’s just total baseball bs, so the net result is that listening to mussina won’t net them anything.
that’s why i’m sticking with my belief that he can’t teach them anything.
when neil allen taught wang his sinker, he also told hem to go up and in occasionally to stop hitters from moving up on the plate to get the sinker before it sunk. how would mussina give this kind of advice when he doesn’t believe in going up and in.
what’s hughes supposed to do with a great curve if hitter’s sit on the outside of the plate the way they do with mussina, it’s not enough to give isolated tips. if it’s not part of an approach that works ,what good is it?