Hey, you, calm down
-
- April
- 19
A few notes for those of you on the ledge:
* The Yankees have played 18 straight days. Kids making shoes in factories in Third World countries don’t work 18 straight days.
* The following players have missed games because of injury: Andy Pettitte, Derek Jeter, Jason Giambi, Jorge Posada, Jose Molina, Wilson Betemit
* The following players missed games because of suspension: Melky Cabrera, Shelley Duncan.
* The following players have so far forgotten how to hit: Jason Giambi, Robinson Cano.
* The following players have been away to care for critically ill fathers: Joba Chamberlain.
* The following managers missed games because of illness: Joe Girardi.
* Number of games at home: 9
* Number of games on the road: 9
* Number of games when it was warmer than 60 degrees: 5
* Number of new managers: 1
* Number of new coaches: 4
* Number of games against the defending World Champions: 5
* Number of starts by Andy Pettitte: 3 out of 18.
* Number of times Joba and Mo have pitched in the same game: 3
* Number of papal visits that have disrupted everybody’s schedule: 1
Do I need to go on? It’s somewhat of a miracle that the Yankees are 9-9 at this point given everything that has gone on. Did you really think Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy would be the next coming of Whitey Ford and Allie Reynolds right away?
Hughes is the second-youngest player in the majors and the youngest pitcher. Most of us were in college when we were 21 and trying to scrape enough money for beer. He’s the No. 3 starter for the Yankees. How about giving him a break?
Do I really need to remind people that the Yankees were 14.5 games out of first place last May and were driving around in a van picking up starting pitchers from homeless shelters and bus stations?
Try, just try, to be a little cognizant of the situation your team has been in so far. Some of the comments on the blog tonight appeared to be written by 8-year-olds after sucking down three Mountain Dews.
Brian Cashman didn’t promise you a wire-to-wire joyride. There’s a plan in place and there are going to be some bumps.
Brew some green tea, take a nice sip, put some jazz on your iPod and calm down. It’s April 19.
This entry was posted
on Saturday, April 19th, 2008 at 1:18 am by Peter Abraham.
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Great post Peter.
No! No! No!
*cracking open my 8th Mt. Dew of the night*
I am convinced that, as long as they are still in it in June, there will be some kind of trade for a starting pitcher. As in, see you later Ian Kennedy, Alberto Gonzalez and Austin Jackson, hello whoever can give us a quality start just about every time out. There’s gonna be one of those guys available this year, and the Yankees have the chips to get him.
marathon not a sprint
I’m ready to leave Moeller behind the plate as long as Posada has Damon’s cannon behind the plate.
… you forgot to mention another important obstacle … the rest of BASEBALL - is just BETTER this year.
Even the National League is greatly improved.
The days of walking over the rays and o’s 35 times a year are over. These are much improved clubs.
Look around baseball - especially, the minor leagues - the competition has finally caught up to the great expansion dilemma. You are seeing a lot of amazing talent starting to surface on an everyday basis. Lineups are now regularly four deep in power - AL and NL.
not to mention the international competition that has emerged to make things even harder for a baseball player to make the majors.
These guys are the BEST IN THE WORLD!!!!! .. and they ALL .. ALL want to beat the Yankees more than any other team.
… they need to re-evalute the competition and realize that they need to do more than just show up now to win this thing.
DON’T TELL ME TO CALM DOWN !!
(sorry, couldn’t resist.)
Voice Of Reason makes an appearance at the blog.
By the way, Phil’s velo readings on MLB Gameday and the Orioles telecast: sat at 92-93mph and hit 94 every inning or so.
His stuff is getting there.. Not a great performance, but an A-Rod error away from possibly going 6innings and allowing 3 ER. Girardi will take that every time out, especially once the offense starts grinding
I agree, the way people are acting you would think it was already September. I mean calling Hughes and Kennedy busts right now is damn crazy. I wonder if the watched baseball back when Mariano Rivera was just starting out saying bust. A youth movement does not jus thappen overnight, it takes time. People wanted Hughes to stay, and I think it was the right move, but you are not going to get instant results. People see Albrt Pujols hitting 40 HRs from the get go and automatically think that is how every great player starts out, it is not. Hughes pitching in the majors at 21 shows what kind of talent he has, just wait for him to bust out and show the world. It takes time.
*clap clap* LET’S GO YANKEES!
Thanks peter, you are so right: a little perspective is in order. It’s as if half the people who view this blog have never watched a full baseball season. Joel: I hope you are wrong about a trade in june, there aren’t any arms out there worth trading either kennedy or hughes who haven’t been traded already (haren, santana). There is no guy in the league save an “ace” who will “give us a quality start just about every time out.” With that in consideration I for one would be reticent to make a trade. I mean it is only april, and the patriots were undefeated after 18 games… and thats football.
peter: thank you. You posted a healthy reality check.
pete, best post I’ve seen you write since I’ve been reading.
Yes, this is a good post by Peter. But look at the one he did a few hours before the game:
a “big game” for Hughes
“To say he needs to give the Yankees at least six good innings tonight is an understatement.”
“[H]e clearly has to get back to the form he showed against Toronto on April 3 and that has to start tonight.”
Which is it? I’m starting to think that the “calm down” post is directed at Peter himself.
Very well said Pete. However, I think its futile to try to talk sense into some of the people who comment here. I’ll always read the blog, but all the negativity/idiocy on the boards caused me to stop reading the comments section altogether last season. Hopefully the same thing doesn’t happen this year. Anyone who pushes the panic button at this point in the season (especially with this team) knows nothing about baseball. Anyway, I like our chances to rebound tomorrow with Kennedy. He has shown a lot of improvement in his last two outings.
Some of us like living on the ledge. We experience the game - and life - more intensely than you non-ledge dwellers.
We see more clearly both the jagged depths of despair, and the sun coming up over the horizon.
While the rest of you lurk cautiously in the shadows, we step out boldly where no human has gone before.
Sometimes, yes, we fall flat on our faces.
Other times, we grab a handful of stars.
We consider Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle fellow ledge-dwellers.
And leave the rest of you to your embrace of Bill Buckner and Craig Biggio.
And the comfort of your statistics.
“Some of us like living on the ledge. We experience the game - and life - more intensely than you non-ledge dwellers.
We see more clearly both the jagged depths of despair, and the sun coming up over the horizon.
While the rest of you lurk cautiously in the shadows, we step out boldly where no human has gone before.
Sometimes, yes, we fall flat on our faces.
Other times, we grab a handful of stars.
We consider Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle fellow ledge-dwellers.
And leave the rest of you to your embrace of Bill Buckner and Craig Biggio.
And the comfort of your statistics.”
Ledge dwellers OD on cocaine in their 20s. Saner people survive.
Just keep telling yourself that, son.
While lurking cautiously in the shadows with those burning, envious eyes.
Loser excuses from a small-time writer.
yeah, great post pete, now the Yankees will start winning.
“Kids making shoes in factories in Third World countries don’t work 18 straight days.”
They don’t make millions of dollars either.
They make what, maybe 50cent and hour, while these player fly in luxury planes around the country.
Stop whining, the yankees will lose many more unfortunately.
50cent/hour*****
No doubt Pete. Negative Nancys need to light up a nice fat…clove…and relax. It is really and truly April 19. We have played a tough schedule and our offense has been the biggest problem. We are in good shape if our pitching improves the way it should as the season progresses.
Great Post Petah, great post. The Holy Papal himself will restore order to the Holy Grounds and Christin the new stadium I’m sure.
Hey Pete- You say Cashman has a plan? How about letting us in on the PLAN?..Yanks starting pitching has the worst ERA in the A.L…Bullpen will soon explode…2 years without a good 1st baseman….I hear millions in payroll will be saved when the old men are not re-signed at season’s end.What will Cash do with all ths dough? Another Pavano or Brown?….Poor Girardi.He thought he was getting a championship caliber team, but all he got was a Johnny Keane bunch.
I didn’t know this was a rebuilding team.
Anyone who jumps off the bus now is a bandwagon fan and should put that Ortiz jersey on
Whoever expected 21 yr old pitchers to dominate from day one is delusional. Now entrusting the #3 role to Moose was dumb. We all knew it. But paying 10 mill a yr for the Carlos Silvas is dumb too. We learned our lesson ie Pavano.
Id rather watch talent improve all yr and we all know from scouts and actual stats Generation Trey is legit and the guys coming behind them are too.
We are walking the tight rope. Trying to win a Series while breaking in 3 22 yr old starters.
It would help if one of the minor league guys become Joba II but thats wishful thinking.
Hes out Beckett. Which we all know we need. Wang as #2 is beyond compare.
Its going to be a fun yr. Dont jump off the cliff after every bad loss. Relax!
dougj1:
Cashmans plan is pretty obvious
Build the system.
Get high end, high talent pitching thats cheap and you have control over for yrs so you’re not overpaying or over trading for on the market.
Reduce payroll of bloated long term contracts that hurt flexibility.
Compete for a World Series.
Is that an easy mandate? Rebuild and contend at the same time?? Hell no. Have the Yanks done it the past 3 yrs when the farm system was BARREN? Yes.
Cashman deserves our trust. The past 3 yrs and this yr should be rebuilding yrs but we have a 90 win team. That aint easy to do.
Pedro Abraham, kids in sweat shops in third world countries aren’t playing a game for 3 hours a day. They are putting laces on Nikes for 12+ hours straight. Terrible comparison.
I think Buster and GOB have no clue about any of this.
Hi Peter,
I really love your blog. Thank you for keeping us informed and putting all things in perspective.
Best to you, Deirdre
My first time replying to a blog and I can’t even spell my own name right! LOL!
Deirdre
Bateman - Stop taking yourself too seriously. Pete’s just trying to point out the grind these guys have been going through. Not to belittle the terrible lives sweatshop workers have, but–these guys do more a day than play the game for three hours. They’ve been flying all over the place, arriving in the wee hours of the morning thanks to ESPN scheduling and do plenty of working out, running, etc. before the game. Getting paid millions of dollars doesn’t make it any easier for the Yankees to function well on no sleep.
Phil Hughes and IPK are unexpected to rotation of starter.
Pete - tell that to some of colleagues who say they Yanks should have traded for Johan
Still hurts. Oh, how it still hurts!
Last night’s game was like the last girl I dated. Things are going well, she’s calling me back, I get a third date, we’re moving along nicely, getting to know each other slowly, Hughes keeping the game close, error by Giambi but nothing too serious, I even send flowers, hey maybe I really like you, and you seem to really like me, ok, nice, and then, boom, one email, out of the blue, the Orioles put up 7 in one inning, she’s doesn’t have time for a relationship, but I’m a great guy, and now I’m watching A-Rod forget how to throw and the Hawk, that goat, serve batting practice meatballs to these retreads.
Oh yeah, perspective is important, I’m all for perspective, other fish in the sea, it’s only April and we’re still 9-9, but, man, oh man, it still hurts, you know what I mean?
Hey Pete:
Great post - any reason there hasn’t been any post game audio on the blog for a while? I thought you guys cleared that with MLB.
Only 144 games left in the season to straighten things out and yet you are able to maintain your calm, dispassionate assessment. You are a tower of strength.
Peter you are far to reasonable to be a Yankees beat writer. You need to work on the melodramatic doom and gloom stuff.
Oh Boy….another “Calm Down” post. It was well written and I enjoyed it, but, I am fine with people freaking out and getting emotional, panicky, whatever. Its all part of the fun.
Peter, Let people express themselves.
So far the worst thing that happened to Hughes was the hamstring injury last year.
He looks like a different pitcher. I don’t have a trained eye or anything but his mechanics do look different.
It’s all good baby….
While lurking cautiously in the shadows with those burning, envious eyes.
What are you talking about? Aren’t you embarrassed to even post stuff like this on a board for fans of a baseball team? If writing semi-coherent posts means “putting yourself out there, thereby I’m a better person and a better Yankees fan” you need to get a life. Getting emotional and panicky about your baseball team in the middle of April isn’t fun, it’s evidence of a short memory and a loss of perspective. I wonder what you guys were doing in the late ’80s and early ’90s. The sense of entitlement from certain segments of the Yankees fan population in the last five years is overbearing. Get a clue guys. It’s no coincidence that the dynasty teams were built over the rubble of those crappy Bucky Dent/Stump Merrill teams.
Yeah Pete, don’t lecture. Some people just think the team stinks right now and they have to pick up the slack before they dig themselves a hole they can’t climb out of. Stop offering up excuses. Let’s hope we don’t hear Hughes blogging that the Pope’s visit is screwing the team up. Or Girardi saying “if only we didn’t get rained out on opening day then we would have only played 17 straight instead of 18.” And how many other teams have been playing in cold weather? Are the Yanks the only ones? Which team is using the trip to Japan as an excuse? Probably the one with the worst record. It’s ridiculous
Nobody’s “on the ledge” so stop the patronizing and definitely stop rationalizing the mediocrity of a 210 million dollar team.
Thank you kindly!
Wow– I had to be at the bar last night, and I’m glad I wasn’t here for all the negativity and trollery… Geez…
They are 9-9, it could be worse. I seem to remember the Saux in 2004, you know, the team that caught fire in August and didn’t slow down until Oct.30, when they won the WS?
They were 40-42 at the All-Star break, that 2004 Red Sox team…
Anyone who thinks the Wild Card is coming out of the Central is crazy. Witht he way the CHIsox and MIN have been playing, coupled with Detroit and CLE bad starts, they will all continue to beat up on each other. If the Yankees can pull off a 91-win season, IMO, they are in the playoffs.
To all you writing them off so early, and you KNOW who you are, don’t come in here dropping confetti and ticker tape when they make the playoffs and ACTUALLY make it out of the first round this year in OCt.
*************PREDICTION TIME***************************** (you heard iit here first)
-Yankees slowly began to awaken, in the field, on the mound and at the plate. Call me crazy, but warmer weather night in and night out has something to do with it.
-A few minor-tweak trades are made to shore up bullpen once Joba is moved to rotation. I could see Betemit getting traded for a reliever, no big name, a fill in guy. Think Shawn Chacon, era 2005, but in the bullpen, not ‘tation.
-A call up or two. Aside from the ‘Die Hards’, who here at this time last year HONESTLY had ANY idea who Joba Chamberlain or Ian Kennedy was.
-A non-eye-rising signing, such as Freddy Garcia, to add some starter depth.
Just watch… heck, look back at the teams since 2004 that have made the playoffs. in 05, they started 11-19 and came back to win the division…
Its April people. A-P-R-I-L !
P.S. At least Johan isn’t 4-0 with an ERA of 1.25 and 48 Ks, or else we would have heard from Hammern’ Stammern’ Hank!
Great post Pete. It’s becoming a bore to listen to and read fans whine and complain about every flippin decision when the team made no promises when they started down this path.
Anyone that expected the team with such an infusion of youth on the staff to dominate will be disapointed all summer because they won’t.
I chalk this up to the internet and the invention of the message board. This allows all the panicking fans to vent their spleens when they get grief from fans of another team or watch the 45 replays of an Ortiz HR on Sportscenter.
As fans, we should ignore the naysayers and allow the team to develop. It’ll be worth it.
“Hughes is the second-youngest player in the majors and the youngest pitcher”‘
“He’s the No. 3 starter for the Yankees”
no, he’s one of three #5 starters on the team. the yankees don’t have a #3 or #4 starter.
isn’t that wasting a year of alex rodriguez and derek jeter in their prime? wouldn’t the youth movement be better served if there wasn’t so much pressure on hughes and kennedy at this point in their development?
don’t the yankees need an adult pitching in their # 3 spot ? hughes should not have the pressure of a number three on him at this point. he really should be at the end of the rotation just finding his way into the major leagues.
i thought hughes looked fine last night for a twenty one year old rookie. maybe the smart thing is treat him like a kid though and quit while you are ahead at 4 or five innings. it’s not what you are looking for in a #3 in the rotation, but that maybe is what you’re looking for in a 21 year old #5.
i’m not sure you want a kid like hughes experiencing failure for the first time in his life for too long on a team that always struggles out of the box. i’m thinking the yankees should be looking for a veteran #3.
three more starts should tell which way to go
Only thing more comical than reading the some of the troll stuff are the trolls acting as if its their constitutional right to write such nonsense.
This has always been a place for logical and fun baseball talk. Not a place for you to have stream of conscious, whiny comments over an April baseball game.
Perhaps some blogs are put together for the purposes of such nonsense. That wasn’t, and isn’t, Pete’s reason for putting this blog together.
Its why its the best Yankee blog in the business.
You have issues? Take it up with your shrinks and keep it off the blog.
Good points by Peter but the fact remains that Joe Girardi will need to realize that he has a 22-man roster to work with because of the ineptness of Damon, Giambi, and Mussina who add nothing to the roster but declining skills.
None of the 3 can be moved beginning with their contracts. Continuously sending them out there only drags the team down. To begin with, take Giambi out of the lineup completely to be replaced by Ensberg and Shelley.
One of the biggest problems with blogoshpere is also its greatest appeal: the ability to make your words appear in a place where a lot of people will see them, for free. Too many people, however, don’t appreciate the fact that this is shared space, not somebody’s bedroom or dorm. As a result, cyberspace is littered with the virtual equivalent of belches, farts and snot rockets. Last night on this blog was a perfect example. I didn’t go anywhere near this blog last night. Too much like riding the subway right after the kids get out of school.
Forget registration. Maybe we need “congestion pricing” on the Yankees lohud blog.
Randy,
JMO but, this is exactly what Hughes needs.
The kid has never experienced this type of struggle in his baseball life.
Everybody has to struggle in this game. Its how you find out who can handle it and who can’t.
Sending him to AAA, for example, and having him put up good numbers, really doesn’t tell us anything at this point.
Guys like Igawa and Rasner go to AAA and put up great numbers. They come to the majors and they struggle.
At some point, you have to learn on the job. That’s what is happening right now with Hughes and Kennedy.
He pitched much better last night. He got done in more by Arod’s error in the 6th than anything.
He’s going to be fine.
Frankly, I’m more concerned about Damon and Giambi than I am with Hughes or Kennedy for that matter.
Hughes and Kennedy are showing improvement. Just not seeing it with Damon and Giambi. Especially Giambi.
Frankly, he looks as done as Moose. That’s a concern only because Shelley Duncan is tearing it up at Scranton and should be on this team right now.
Damon? I’m willing to give it another 2-3 weeks. But, if he is hovering around .200 in Mid-May and Brett Gardner is still hitting over .300 in Scranton, I’d be real tempted to call him up and put him in LF. They need speed and a spark in the leadoff spot and that kid may be the answer.
Re: Hughes, its just the ups and downs every young player, especially a pitcher, goes through as they find their way at this level.
TO PETER ABRAHAM YOU ROCK!!!
This was as tremendous and uplifting and FACTUALLY SOUND AND REPLETE WITH RATIONAL THINKING as any lead in to a blog I have read.
Thank you thank you for the amazingly cogent perspective. I know that as much as I don’t need it to feel good about Yankee life, reading it helps to reinforce THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION even more.
Thanks Pete. And keep up the great work. You do us proud.
I am also convinced that the combination of the Pope meeting with the Rabbi in NY is going to bring something to that mass at the Stadium that will have us dancing in the streets once the Yanks are back home.
We are being set up with these yukky losses just to be reminded of who is really in charge.
I can deal with it! Go GOD!
And happy Passover to my Jewish friends. I believe this catholic girl got the date right!
At the end of that list I was expecting “Priceless”.
I’m not on a ledge, at least not regarding the pitching and I’m definitely patient and still optimistic about Hughes. In fact, I’m ok with this year being a rebuilding year to groom the younger guys for long-term success.
But I’m annoyed with the offense especially some of the veterans. the young/cheap/AAA call-up guys are hitting, why aren’t they? We should not have to wait for this offense to get hot, the lineup is supposed to be the best in the league and certainly the most expensive. Sure it’s April, sure there have been injuries, but the same could have been said about Matsui who had knee surgery. Except he is hitting well, so there is no need for an excuse for him.
The truth is it’s April for everyone else in the league too, and other teams have had injuries too. The 18 consecutive-day schedule is tough no doubt, I wouldn’t be able to do it, but that’s why I’m not a pro athlete. They are pro athletes, the schedule is part of the game, and they are supposed to know how to hit. I don’t want to keep waiting for Jason Giambi to learn how to hit unless he is willing to wait to cash his multi-million dollar pay check.
the red sox aren’t depending on ellsbury . if he struggles in making the adjustment to the major leagues, coco crisp is there. buchholz is the red sox clear #5. he has # 5 pressure on him. the red sox have tavarez who filled in adequately last year in that role when needed. bartolo colon is being brought along slowly as a possible low risk fill in for the #5 spot.
the looming further collapse of mussina so far this season is what dooms the plan of moving two rookies into the rotation. joba could be moved into the rotation to see if he can be a #3, but there’s no guarantee he’s ready either. he’s a kid who’s going to be worried about his dad for probably this whole year. does he need the pressure of a new york yankees #3 on him this summer.
i don’t go for the idea of writing off a year of arod’s and jeter’s prime on a youth movement that may, because of the pressure on the players to win,actually hurt the development of the young pitchers.
youth movements are good. too much too soon, not so good.
I think jim Leyland wrote this post…We’ll go out and win 3 in a row now don’t worry.
I wonder what goes on in the heads of people who just constantly whine and complain with every loss. They don’t seem to understand baseball. I have just stayed away from the in-game blogs once the game starts because there is too much knee-jerk screaming.
Hughes was much better last night, although the O’s bats don’t have any pop to them. The inability to get the clutch hit when we 1st and 2nd, no one out killed the game.
I am not as concerned about Giambi as a lot of other people are just because he seems to have good ABs, walks a lot, and still scares the opposing pitcher to some extent.
Damon is more of a problem - stinking it up at the top of the order hurts us more than Giambi’s inconsistency. It is too bad because Girardi extended himself in spring training to Damon to tell him that he was an every day player. I don’t think he will be coming back next year if this bad play continues.
Great observations as always SJ. It’s the team’s inability to score that killing them right now. The starters are being pressed because guys like Damon and Giambi are playing like washed-up vets and Cano is looking like a rookie at the plate. I have a feeling that the pitching staff would be much less stressed and more confident in their abilities to actually pitch if the offense would live up to it’s ability to score runs.
Randy -
If Buckholz is the Sawx #5, what is Lester? Their #6?
Think it’s time to suggest Giambi go’s to AAA to work on hitting. That seemed to have gotten him going last year when they almost sent him down. Even if Duncan hits around .250 with a few home runs it’s better than Giambi stinkin things up.
“don’t the yankees need an adult pitching in their # 3 spot ?”
Randy is absolutely right that the problem with the rotation right now is the #3 spot - it’s not Hughes and Kennedy. They were slotted as #4 and #5.
League average ERA last year in the AL for a #4 starter - 4.88.
League average ERA last year in the AL for a #5 - 6.02.
Those are the standards we need to compare Hughes and Kennedy to.
Mussina may or may not be done - I think it largely depends on what done is. The issue for him is that he could probably be a #5 starter somewhere (NL west would be the bes place for him).
But the Yankees need him to act as a #3.
Now the problem is that it’s just not easy to find a #3 starter. No team is just going to trade one who doesn’t have serious baggage.
And there were no #3 quality starters available in the free agent market (I’m not counting Hiroki Kuroda - I don’t think signing another japanese pitcher was an option).
We can rehash the whole trade for an Ace issue.
But think about where this team would be without Melky right now in center.
Damon looks awful as a baseball player and one thing is very certain looking at him - his days of being able to play CF everyday are over.
Besides Santana the other big name pitcher people were very hot on was Eric Bedard - he’s now on the DL with what sounds like a very significant hip injury.
So how to stabilize the rotation?
The best answer is moving Joba into the rotation. There is no chance they are going to find anyone even close to as good as he is on the outside.
As Pete’s pointed out - Joba and Mo have pitched in 3 games together. In the 5 games against Boston Joba would have thrown a total of 1 inning (7th inning in the 15-9 game they won this week).
Joba has thrown 5 innings in 18 games. Yes some of that is because of his father’s but ultimately if a team is playing .500 ball there just aren’t going to be that many leads to protect.
Stabilizing the #3 spot in the rotation is a priority. That is what’s going to give Phil an Ian time to develop.
The answer is Joba. He is in no way going to be an average rookie starter. His stuff is too good.
The question is when?
sj-
i don’t think hughes should go to triple a either. i watched closely last night for the first time with hughes and he looks like he belongs in the major leagues. i just think the weight of #5 should be on his shoulders, not as a #3 and the first line of defense after wang and pettitte.
hughes made it to the fifth inning in great shape so that’s progress. he did pitch much more to contact, but after often getting quick strikes on the first pitch ,he went to three balls too often. i thought he did well.this start was a step in the right direction.
and his fastball has life to it. i was impressed with the swing and misses. his 93mph is better than most 95mph’s.
TKinDC-
good point about lester. so as you say he’s more of a #4b. he’s older, had the maturity of getting over cancer, and has had more experience around the red sox. for whatever reason, he’s not pitching with the pressure hughes has on him.
Well said Peter
Murphy and SJ are dead on. Last nights game thread was not enjoyable or informative and for the most part unreadable.
Only 15 excuses? Is that the best you can do Pete?!
You know what injuries I think have hurt the most> posada and Molina not because of defensive purposes as Moller has been fine BUT with Jorge hurting and not hurting enough for a DL stint I guess and Molina hurt it has made it necessary to take Duncan away from time here and I believe time where he could have helped.
“Now the problem is that it’s just not easy to find a #3 starter. No team is just going to trade one who doesn’t have serious baggage.”
“The best answer is moving Joba into the rotation. There is no chance they are going to find anyone even close to as good as he is on the outside.”
for the first time, i’m leaning towards this as the best idea. it may be better to find out now if joba is ready for a key rotation role. if he is , problem solved. if he’s not, we know he can pitch the 8th and 9th. he can always go back to that role.
the problem i have with objectively thinking about mussina is that i absolutely hate his approach to pitching. if i were the yankee manager, i would give him the choice of either drilling the next batter in a nice safe but painful location , wearing a pin striped skirt when he pitches, or a nice spot at the end of the bullpen bench.
those probably won’t be the choices girardi gives mussina, but i have a hunch he’s going to start losing a lot sleep over mussina which may cause him to come up with his own creative approaches to mussina.
Pete -
In honor of the Pope’s visit, and with respect to your post, Amen and Alleluia!
I did prepare myself before the season began that the playoff streak has a good chance of ending this season. In a strong AL (Indians and Tigers will both be better than they are now) and having the defending champs in your division, it would be hard regardless to make the playoffs. But what the Yanks are trying to do, compete for a championship while developing young starting pitching isn’t very easy. This definitely is a transitional season and as frustrating as that may be, it’s for the best of the future for this franchise.
In an ideal world, Hughes would be sent down now to develop secondary pitches. Unfortunately, the Yanks don’t have that luxury and Hughes is going to have to develop up here. The guy will be very good one day, probably not this season at such a young age. I also really like Kennedy, but will have to take the growing pains with him as well. Ideally, Cashman would’ve signed an innings-eater in the offseason like Hernandez or Silva to help the bullpen but didn’t. Wang and Pettitte are fine. Mussina is done and thankfully will be gone at the end of the season. Someone this season eventually- maybe by Joba, Horne, Igawa, or by trade will take Mussina’s roster spot.
Giambi needs to be taken out of the lineup. He is not an everyday 1B anymore, Girardi! Bring up Duncan and let him and Ensberg get the majority of the AB’s at 1B! The rest of the lineup is solid and will hit and we obviously need a healthy Posada to catch again so we can free up the DH spot. In the offseason, trade Damon or Matsui.
Bottom line: making the playoffs would be a pleasant surprise, don’t make any panic trades and give up our future, continue to develop the farm system. This is the right way to build a team and it requires patience!
I very much want to see the Yanks develop their own pitching and I’m willing to be patient.
I agree that in the long run, Phil Hughes is going to be a competent major league pitcher. You can see the potential for him to have an Andy Pettitte like career. I disagree that, if major league hitters continue to hit .357 against Phil after another 4 or 5 starts, his best place to develop would be in the majors. Why ruin his confidence?
I am not convinced at all about Ian Kennedy though. I base my opinion more on the 3 games I personally watched him pitch last year. My opinion on IPK hasnt changed this year at all. With less than average velocity on his fastball he has to be rely on near perfect control. That’s a tough way to consistently win at the major league level.It can be done, just look at Jamie Moyer or Ted Lilly.
It’s one thing to be patient and another thing to be sold a line of thought that may or may not be true. Our patience with Hughes should be much,much longer than with Ian Kennedy. Pitchers with Kennedy’s repertoire are a lot easier to find than Hughes’. You would hope that the stable of Yankees’ pitching prospects throw the ball more like Hughes than Kennedy.
Either way, it’s only April in their first big season and no one should make a long term judgement on either of them.
Last night was a lousy night for the Yankees, but in any loss, I try to look for the bright spots; I found a few:
- Decent outing by Edwar, helps the BP get a break
- Solid ABs by Melky, definitely a matured approach.
- Respectible outing by Hughes, clearly the stats don’t back it up but if it weren’t for Giambi, Arod defense and poor pitching by Hawk, he could have pitched 6 and given up 3 ER.
On another note, what a ballplayer Markakis is, he has superstar written all over him.
We can always applaud Cashman’s rejection of the “WIN NOW AT ALL COSTS” philosophy in favor of the “WIN MAYBE IN A FEW YEARS IF THINGS WORK OUT RIGHT” method. It’s a perfect philosophy… for teams with the resources of the Pittsburgh Pirates or KC Royals.
“the problem i have with objectively thinking about mussina is that i absolutely hate his approach to pitching. ”
They had an eye opening analysis of mussina over at the replacement level blog the other day:
“Mike Mussina has thrown 318 pitches so far in 2008. 212 of them have been strikes, which on the surface seems decent. But here’s the scary part. Of those 318 pitches, batters have only swung and missed at 11 pitches (5%). That’s an average of under 3 per game, and it’s going to make it very difficult for Mussina to have sustained success unless something changes.”
5% swing and miss rate - that is very concerning, especially since Mussina is not a ground ball pitcher and the yankee’s defense (especially with Giambi at first) isn’t very good.
http://www.replacementlevel.com/index.php/RLYW/comments/is_moose_cooked
“That’s fine. Just understand that it’s going to be very difficult for the Yankees to make the playoffs and develop Hughes and Ian Kennedy at the same time. Right now, this is a team with two reliable starters.”– Pete Abraham, LoHUd Blogs, April 18, 9:27pm.
If the Yankeees don’t make the playoffs, many fans won’t forgive Cashman, I include myself among them. Worse, the Steinbrenners won’t renew his contract.
All good things must come to an end eventually however.
Perhaps, a Spring cleaning in the general managers office should follow the one in the manager’s office anyway.
I can’t believe that I would ever endorse anything Russ Salzberg said– or affirm, for that matter, anything a man with his diction said EVER– but I agree with what he said on yesterday’s post game: “IPK and Joba’s development would have benefitted from a rotation of Wang, Santana, and Pettitte.”
Too bad, George is not well. As much as I admire Hughes as a man and a pitcher, this is one time I wish the Boss and Boss, Jr. had overruled their GM.
Giambi has always had a great eye, so there’s always a chance he will ignite. I go with Kenny Singleton of YES: give a batter 100 ABs and then panic. (He’s got about 57 left to prove himself). He can scoop with the best of them at 1st but he let a ball go past him last night, (ole!), showing that his glove is still a liability and he still doesn’t like to start the DP. It would be a real embarrassment for G to get released, but Cashman has the stones to do it if need be.
Damon is a good LF, but his coldness at the top of the lineup is killing them. He’s swinging at anything now - he looks lost. Damon’s had 59 ABs so he’s got about 40 left under the Singleton Rule. It’s closer to time to panic about JD, (two weeks or so) but what to do? Do you start batting him 9th now and move Melky up top? Will that help Damon focus or make him lose it? Do you trade/release Betemit when he returns and bring up Gardner?
Frankly, JD is looking more “Tony Womack” everyday.
Jazz?
Excellent suggestion.
I recommend “Kind of Blue” by Miles Davis and “Song For My Father” by Horace Silver to start.
I love the fact that the guy that calls Hughes “the franchise” is also telling everyone to keep their expectations in check.
Also, excuses are like ass&$@% . . . everyone’s got one.
Great post, Pete.
A lot of these people on the edge of the cliffs are kids who think real baseball is like XBox- they can go 150-12 and beat the crap out of teams. So when the real Yankees don’t do that, they are called failures.
I’m willing to take some lumps this year because I know that in the bigger picture, we are going to be great.
Holy cow guys. I went to the game last night and, yes, it wasn’t pretty. But this comments section is uglier. “Many fans won’t forgive Cashman…” for what? For trying to created an amazing team in the coming years? Get over it. We have been LUCKY enough for the Yanks to make it to the playoffs for 13 years in a row. That’s unheard of! That’s insane! They will not make the playoffs every year from here until eternity.
It’s a double-edged sword folks. You all yelled and screamed that we needed to sign big names to shore up the team. Then you yelled and screamed that we needed to develop young talent. Well, now we are at the end of the “throw money at FA’s” era and the beginning of the “develop young talent” era. Not an easy thing to juggle.
Let Hughes and Kennedy struggle and learn how to pitch. I believe a big part of the reason we never have good AAA pitchers come up is because they get no chance to pitch in the bigs. Either they come up and are dominant or they struggle and get banished. Look at Fausto Carmona of Cleveland. Man I wish we had a pitcher like that! Oh wait, two years ago he was 1-10 with an over 5 era. Yet he got a chance to pitch in the majors and ended up with 19 wins last year. In 3 years we have a chance to have a rotation that all wins 15 games a year. That’s dominant. Give it time.
Templeton_Peck:
Pete calls Hughes “The Franchise” because he’s the future ace of the team, not because he pitches like Walter Johnson right now. If you are going to insult somebody, get it right.
Pete -awesome post. Another thing affecting the pitching staff is the injuries to the catchers. Usually a pitcher and a catcher get into a rhythm working with each other. They have not had that chance. Andy Pettitte has had 3 starts with 3 different catchers. I believe last night was Hughes first start with Moeller.
The hitting will come around. It has already started. I think that the Yankees will be fine.
Cashman rolled the dice putting Hughes and Kennedy into the fire so soon. It may still work. My biggest concern is his decision to go with them and not have a long reliever/spot starter on the roster. It makes no sense. We’re already seeing the effect of this on the bullpen. The Yankees would be better off carrying 13 pitchers once Moeller is sent down than burn out Bruney,Ohlendorf and Hawkins.
cb-
the abnormally low swing and miss rate for mussina means hitters like manny can let strikes that fool them go by and not fear getting behind in the count . hitters can even go to two strikes without much fear of striking out. once this gets around the league, if it already hasn’t, mussina’s decline could really snowball.
i figure mussina has three more starts to improve before cashman is forced to scrap plan a and go to plan b. short of adding the unlikely quality #3 from another team, i’m on board with rolling the dice with joba in that role to see if he can do it.
the problem the yankees have with joba is like a painter trying to paint a room that needs two gallons of paint when he only has one gallon. there’s only so much water he can add. at some point he has to go to the store and get another gallon of paint.
Great post, Pete! You said it all and very, very well!
Lighten up people! You’ll never make it to October this way!
Take a cue from Rebecca, the great Optimist, and other POSITIVE people. Your heart will thank you!!!
Peter: Amen.
Hughes has had some bad luck, but 2 out of his 4 starts this season have been good (last night he pitched well, but was very unlucky.)
Meanwhile, let’s go, Robbie Cano!
People are complaining that the Yankees are getting old and then complain when they develop young players.
What do you want? To keep signing guys like Pavano, Jaret Wright, Randy Johnson, etc.?
I’ll take the growing pains knowing how good we can be for years to come.
Cashman’s a genius.
Time is fine if you don’t have a 200 Million Dollar payroll and didn’t just spend $105 million dollars in the off season re-signing a 38-yr old closer and 36-year old catcher, two pillars of your franchise’s foundation.
While, apart from 2B and CF, the rest of your team boasts a starting position player over 32 years of age.
Ask Mo and Po whether they care about Cashman’s plan to build a great team “in the coming years.”
Half the reason why a team amasses prospects is to trade them because not all of them will realize their promise.
Some you keep; Some you trade. But when a team has the opportunity to acquire a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher like Josh Beckett or Johan Santana for prospects and still not deplete its system, a wise GM makes the trade.
Like John Maynard Keynes said, “In the long run, we’re all dead.”
Only in Disney movies are 21 year old pitchers consistent, reliable, and dominating. Some folks just don’t get it: we are watching a talented young pitcher develop at the only level he has anything left to prove. There will be some bad days as he learns something new each time out. Progress is if he makes a new mistake every time out and stops making the same old ones. IMO, he’s still a “franchise” level talent.
To a large degree the same is true about IPK and Joba except that they had a couple more years’ experience in college that Hughes lacks. IPK is a smart, control pitcher who has to figure out how to get the first two innings to go smoother. So far he and Hughes suffer from the same flaw, throwing too many pitches. Too much thinking IMO, too much trying to avoid mistakes and be too prefect instead of pitching. Perfectly natural as kid starters with the Yankees. That will ease up with time.
We don’t know anything about Joba as a starter yet, except that he can probably hide many flaws with velocity. To be a successful starter, however, he will need to use his 3d pitch and if he really has a reliable 4th pitch he will eventually be outstanding. But once lineups see him for several innings at a time, instead of a peek here and there out of the bullpen, they will start to get a book on him. Expect even Joba the Great to have a rocky period once he gets into the lineup.
great post, couldn’t agree with you more. hughes did improve from his last start. the o’s hitters were watching his pitches very closely last night. but the thing to focus on is that is was better than his last start and he made it through more than 3 innings…he’ll come around. all the young guys will, cano included. when they do, people should be afraid of what we can do
err.. the rotation. Once Joba gets into the rotation.
BTW, Hughes impressed me last night. The Yankees bats lost him that game, as much as LaTroy Hawkins sealed the loss.
If Cashman wanted Hughes and IPK in the rotation, then he should have assigned them the 4th and 5th slots and found a genuine 3rd starter to replace Mussina.
It’s not fair to demand of Hughes, as Girardi did yesterday, the performance most teams expect of their 3rd starter.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Hughes was pressing as a consequence and trying to overthrow the ball.
Phil’s fastball was much better last night but the reality is he’s a 2 pitch pitcher right now with no confidence in his change. His curve right now is more of a slurve and not a true power curveball. I’ve seen him have nice command of that pitch but right now it’s not a plus pitch and he really only has 1 pitch. You can tell hitters are not uncomfortible out there, they are not being fooled. I was one guy that was drinking the koolaid on Phil but the reality is that he should be in the minors working on his change and slider. He’s a couple years away which would make him 23 where Buchholz and Joba are now. The reality is that Daniel McCutchen is probably the best young pitcher we have right now outside of Joba. He’s 25 years old and ready to pitch in the big leagues. He throws 93-96 and has a nice curve/change combo. If he continues to dominant in double A and can do the same in triple A we will see him soon. He’s 4 years older then Phil and pitched in college at OU. I think we’re rushing Phil.
I’m surprised at some of the irrational posts last night too, many of us are just too used to winning every day and when April gets off to another slow start, those people start whining. (Its really not that slow, compared to the past 2-3 years…)
BUT…I don’t think Pete’s post last night helped either: “Just understand that it’s going to be very difficult for the Yankees to make the playoffs and develop Hughes and Ian Kennedy at the same time. Right now, this is a team with two reliable starters” Pete, if you want to have your opinions like that, just be prepared for the onslaught of ledge jumpers.
Cvalm down everyone, its going to be fine. Cash is building an incredible team and if for some reason the playoffs aren’t on the agenda this year, so be it. There is a ton of money coming off the books after the season and then Cash’s final pieces will be in place. But hang in there, its a long season.
“Like John Maynard Keynes said, “In the long run, we’re all dead.”
KS,
Last night you’re quoting yeats. Today Keynes - what are you trying to do add some high brow to our little echo chamber here?
This teams problems right now go past having Santana or not.
If Santana was pitching last night they still would have lost - they aren’t hitting with men on base.
Also everyone needs to relax, we’re 9 and 9 and you know how it is every year. After 2 months Cashmen figures out where our weakness’s are and tries to find a way to fix them. The team that was the best team in baseball last year after the all star break was a very different team then the opening day roster. I think eventually Joba will slide into the rotation with Wang, Pettite. That’s a very good top 3 which is better then bostons. Also Boston has many of the problems we have. So everyone needs to chill and let them play the games. Lets see where we are at the All Star break. This year we have a very deep farm as far as pitching so we’ll have the ability to look from within instead of being raped in the trade market.
Thank you Pete, that’s what I kept posting last night during the game.
The best part is the whiners defending their whining. “But, we really ARE a bad team — we just KNOW it this time. Last season was SO last year, and we don’t want to hear about how we drove off the cliff in May 2007 only to look like spoiled little crybabies when the Yankees pulled it together late in the season. WAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!”
cb-
after pondering your swing and miss stats on mussina, i’m reminded of al oliver. for those of you too young to remember, oliver hit .303 lifetime and had 2,743 hits . he rarely struck out more than 50 times in a year. sometimes he walked more than he struck out.
why does mussina make me think of al oliver? oliver was one of the few hitters in baseball history who looked breaking ball away and reacted in on the fastball. he was so quick reacting inside he could do this.
with his abysmal swing and miss rate, mussina is turning the whole league into al olivers. they can look breaking ball away and react in to the fastball. that may why he’s not fooling anyone.
for 2007 and 2008 so far, the league hits about olivers life time average of .303 against mussina.
turning a whole league into al olivers can’t be a good thing.
“Look at Fausto Carmona of Cleveland. Man I wish we had a pitcher like that! Oh wait, two years ago he was 1-10 with an over 5 era. Yet he got a chance to pitch in the majors and ended up with 19 wins last year.”
Carmona would have been pilloried and then buried by yankee fans and the new york media. He probably would not have survived New York as sad as that is to say.
After blowing all of those saves and being so dreadful his first year - he would have gotten destroyed.
And then you watch him dominate the Yankees last year in the playoffs as a second year pitcher…
People who are unhappy with the choice to go with youth are making it sound as if this team has been a post season powerhouse the past few years.
Either you get elite level pitching talent or the best you are going to do is lose in the playoffs.
Neither Cash nor Hal wanted to acquire Santana. That’s done. I wish we could put that away now.
Cleveland could have traded Carmona and gotten a better pitcher to help close in 2006.
If they had a better closer they could have made the playoffs in 2006. But they didn’t and they wound up keepign one of the most promising pitchers in baseball.
Eric Bedard is on the DL with hip inflammation and is taking high doses of steroids to treat it.
Many people who wanted Santana were also pushing for Bedard.
It’s done. Looking back at that juncture isn’t going to make this year or this team any better.
I’ll be at the game tonight and tomorrow. I was at last night game too
I intended the Yeats post last more as irony than anything else in response to the post above me. He’d written “Everything is broken.” So I figured if you’re going to be morose, heck, do it right. Quote Yeats.
In any case, last night’s comments pretty much reflected “the worst are full of passionate intensity”
About Keynes though I’m serious. It’s one thing to admonish patience but quite another to begin extolling Cashman as a genius and well, to quote Yeats again, an incarnation of the Second Coming.
Look, I disagreed vehemently with Cashman about the Santana trade, but I’ve recovered, or at least made it to the 10th step. In any case, you’re right, Santana, Nolan Ryan, Cy Young, you can’t win in the AL when you score 2 runs, both generated by your third-string catcher.
My principal grievance with Cashman right now is about hughes and ipk’s development. If they’re in the rotation then the Yankees should have alloted the roles of 4th and 5th starter and acquired a genuine 3rd starter. Asking anything more of Hughes and IPK is unfair at best, and detrimental to their development, at worst.
Why Cashman thought Mussina could fill the role of a 3rd starter is beyond me.
Joba to the rotation may be the move to make, but, puh-lease. Joba is no silver bullet. He may have higher highs than Moose, but he will have lows to match. Not pessimism, just fact when it comes to rookies, even rookies with a 100 mph fastball. Curb your enthusiasm and don’t overburden this kid too.
CB, SJ,
Good insight. How can anyone with a .500 record be written off on April 19th? This group has prooven to be slow starters. I’m not loosing sleep over Hughes or Kennedy. Neither for most of the position players, although I think it’s seriously possible both Giambi and Damon are done.
I am warming to the idea of moving Joba to the rotaton sooner rather then later. It just seems to me it’s easier to find someone who can come up with 3 outs then someone who can get 18-21.
Pete,
What about Hughes only getting 4 swings and misses?
What about a single strikeout in 6 innings?
All we want are flashes that Hughes will be the dominant number one starter he was talked about being. There was no point in keeping the guy if he’ll peak at a back-end of the rotation starter.
And I don’t know what can happen to improve the bat-speed of Damon and Giambi, but they look VERY old. Players at that stage of their careers don’t all of a sudden get better…they just get progressively worse.
BTW, Cano will always be a number 8 or 9 hitter and will never learn the plate discipline to be a productive guy with RISP………………
Remember too. Santana is 29. He’s hitting a decline point in a career. Some would be going nuts in 2010 when he was posting a 4.00 era in the AL East.
Don’t believe me, some stats are already trending that way.
These are all cogent points but I still wonder how much longer ’til we stop making excuses for these guys?
Charles,
It’s not excuses. Damon and Giambi are hitting extremely poorly. Cano isn’t getting hits to drop. Hughes and IPK are young, inexperienced, and pitching averagely at best. Mussina is pitching less than average. Nobody is denying these facts.
What we are saying is that you have to be patient with young pitching and temper your expectations. Plus, as bad as they are right now, Damon and Giambi won’t hit .100 all year.
“Why Cashman thought Mussina could fill the role of a 3rd starter is beyond me.”
I don’t think he did. I think he believes that Joba will fill that role.
I don’t think that the yankees had any intention of keeping joba in the pen all year.
I also think they thought he’d be able to slot into the #3 spot.
Will Joba have rough spots? Yes. But I do think he’s ready to fill that #3 role now.
And again - there were no #3 starters available on the free agent market. Carolos Silva? You want him for 4 yrs/ 48 million.
Is it a huge risk to have 3 first year pitchers in the rotation? Absolutely.
Is it a risk worth taking? That’s depends on how you see the trade offs.
I think it’s worth the risk. That’s my caluculs. I think this staff is going to get better as the season progresses.
What Keynes was referring to by “in the long run” is applicable to teams like the pirates - teams that perpetually live in a future that never arrives.
I don’t think that’s what Cashman has done at all. I think it’s a way to turn the team around over the next 1-3 years.
It’s not an indefinite future. The yankees haven’t changed that much!
what happened to Ben Sheets?
“Joba to the rotation may be the move to make, but, puh-lease. Joba is no silver bullet. ”
This is absolutely true.
A league average #3 AL starter last year had an ERA of 4.45.
If you look at the AL teams that made the playoffs last year their #3 starters had an average ERA of 4.12.
That’s the neighborhood of performance we could use from Joba as a #3. He doesn’t need to put up a 2.2 ERA.
4.1 would be very good as long as Wang and Andy stay healthy.
All things considered, a respectable April thus far.
The glaring problems can be corrected :
- A .203 leadoff hitter with a slow bat needs to sit.
- A 6th or 7th hitter with no run production and hitting .116 also needs to sit.
- A struggling pitcher with an 86-88 MPH fastball has nothing to set up other pitches with. He’s added pressure on the bullpen.
Solutions:
The energy of Shelley Duncan cures one need at 1st base. Calling up Brett Gardner brightens the leadoff situation at the risk of having to send down Alberto Gonzales. Mussina freezes up a roster spot. Nothing can be done with him except having a 6-man bullpen staff and calling up the best possible starter from AAA.
As far as I’m concerned, getting out of April with a .500 record should basically be the goal to open every season. It’s a realistic enough expectation for pretty much any team, and then you hopefully start to heat up with the weather. Those off days that are due to the team are going to be a real boost, and we’ve lucked out by not having any postponed games except for opening day.
Many fans won’t forgive Cashman? That made me spit my drink.
Okay, so it might be true, but the fans that won’t forgive Cashman? They are the ones that feel entitled every year, that pick the Spurs and the Patriots and the Red Wings as their other favorite teams.
They are the ones that expect the team to go 162-0, and think if Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and Joba Chamberlain aren’t 1-2-3 in Cy Young voting, it’s a major shame.
Dude, guys, it’s 19 APRIL. Not 19 June. Or even 19 May.
Have you learned anything from last year?
Seriously, I’m not even looking at the standings right now–I worry about the Yankees winning games. Come June, July, take a look at the standings and if we’re 14 games under .500 (we won’t be), by all means, then freak out.
Look, I’ve never played a game of major league baseball in my life (for certain obvious reasons), but if a one-weekend road trip to Boston leaves me exhausted, what about these guys that are playing 18-20 on the road?
Phil and Ian will have their struggles. That’s understood. If you can’t accept that the next couple of months might be tough for them, especially for Phil who is only in his third year of professional baseball at all, then you’re in the wrong sport. This isn’t gymnastics; baseball athletes don’t peak at fifteen or sixteen.
I would advise everyone even mildly concerned to check out John Smoltz’s numbers for his rookie year.
Need I remind you that for Smoltz, it’s not a question of if he’s going to Cooperstown, it’s a question of when.
Yes, Joe Girardi has made some moves that make you cringe a little. So did Joe Torre.
Unlike Torre, however, Girardi has not ridden one guy in the bullpen–he’s done his best to spread the workload. Hopefully, with the offday Monday, the Yankees move Moose from the two spot in the rotation and put him or Pettitte in between Phil and Ian.
Yes, Robinson Canò and Jason Giambi aren’t hitting. Canò will come around–he’s done every year so far–and I think Melky’s hot bat might help him. Giambi, I’m not so sure about, but if Giambi is hitting like this next month, we have Morgan and we have Shelley.
Look.
We have a THIRD-STRING catcher that’s been playing like he really wants to not go back to Scranton.
We have a back-up infielder in Alberto Gonzalez, who, in the six games he played, played better than most of us expected.
Derek Jeter? He’s the only regularly starting Yankee batter who does NOT have a home run yet.
We’ve got a bullpen with guys like Bruney, Farnsworth and Hawkins, and, with few exceptions, they have done the job.
If you’re panicking now, you really don’t know anything about this team. If you’re unwilling to give it time, you wouldn’t make a good baseball executive.
Just think about this: Detroit’s traded their future away to “win now”. The 2004-2007 Yankees were “win now” teams. Win now doesn’t get you anywhere except to Hawaii by Halloween.
Cashman has been rebuilding this team on the fly. Last year and this year it’s been primarily with the pitching, but over the next few years, it will be with the position players as well. Jeter, A-Rod, Posada will be hear a while, sure, but those are two first balloters and one borederliner. We’ll also have Canò, and Melky, who, so far, seems to be laughing in the face of everyone that thought it’d be a good idea to trade him for Santana (it might be a couple years before whether we really know it was a good idea or not).
Yeah, Cashman’s made some dumb moves in the past. Name me a GM who hasn’t. But he’s also helped us get to the playoffs every year since he became GM in 1998, a claim no one else, not even the great Theo Epstein or Billy Beane, can make
Seriously folks.
The Yankees will be fine.
Was there really no 3rd starter available though via trade, CB? I know Billy Beane is impossible to deal with. For Blanton, he asked for Joba and IPK, according to Susan Slusser. But what about other GMs?
Have the Yankees looked into when Freddy Garcia is likely to pitch this year or into his receptivity to a one-year contract? Was there no alternative free-agent pitcher willing to accept a one-year deal?
Pete,
I first abt the kids in 3 World countries is racist. And by the way those kids in 3rd world countrie don’t make 33 Mil a year.
Rebecca, great post!
Rebecca, have you looked at Cashman’s record in regard to starting pitching? I’m sure I don’t have to recite the list of ignominy to you, but I’m happy to refresh your recollection of his follies, if necessary. One failure followed another.
Given that record, I don’t know how anyone can place so much faith in his judgment in this regard. Sure, I agree with his overall grand design, to re-build the farm system– I applaud him for it– but I have no confidence in his ability to execute it.
As for how Cashman compares to the competition. Well, all GM’s make mistakes but how many can boast Cashman’s record of futility in starting pitchers.
In any case, when comparing Epstein and Cashman, it’s worth observing Epstein traded for Beckett, even though it cost Henley Ramirez and Anibel Sanchez. Cashman spurned a trade for Santana. Do I think Epstein is better GM than Cashman? I don’t know. But if Hughes and IPK don’t realize their potential, the comparative wisdom of the two GMs will be self-evident.
Daily News is reporting that Farnsworth will be fined 2,000.00 and suspended 3 games. I do believe that he was trying to send a message. However, I do not believe a suspension is warranted. If the ball hits Manny than I see their point. This is to stop the shananigans prior to the July series.
Have a good weekend.
-dennis
Not worried about Cano. But, how long does Giambi have to get into gear?
50 abs?
100 abs?
If after 150 abs, he’s hitting a buck fifty, something is not working right. He’s 39.
When does he begin lose significant playing time?
I’m concerned that Girardi does not have the guts to bench 22m a year veterans.
Good discussion here from some of the actual baseball fans. Johan Santana had an ERA of 6.49 his first year out of the bullpen, he was 21. The next year his ERA was 4.74 at age 22. I bet the Twins fans were glad they didn’t give up on him. Let’s not give up on Phil yet. If you know anything about baseball you can tell the kid has talent. I’ll take the ups and downs if he turns into a fine pitcher for the Yanks, which I think he will. And I agree with SJ44 in that some of the rest of the team looks old and could use some more youth.
Incidentally, the post I wrote, was contingent upon the Yankees NOT making the playoffs.
And should that eventuality transpire, with Mo and Po another year older entering 2009– NO I won’t forgive him because Jeff Weaver, Kevin Brown, Hideki Irabu, Javier Vasquez, Jose Contreras, Esteban Loiza, Carl Pavano, Jared Wright, etc., etc. etc. are too fresh in my memory.
And the one chance Cashman had to acquire a pitcher who departed from all the above because he was a proven future Hall of Famer and 29-yrs of age besides, he suddenly found religion and decided to forbear.
Will I clamor for his dismissal. No, Of course not. But I certainly won’t forgive him. And trust me, I’m not alone.
Kill Schill, have you looked at Cashman’s record since he was given full reign to do as he wished?
“Was there really no 3rd starter available though via trade, CB?”
KS,
I’ll flip that question around to you as it’s was you’re assertion that not acquiring a #3 from outside the organization was a mistake.
It’s fine to site the problem but when you do it’s a lot more productive to say what the solution would be.
As far as I can see, not one #3 quality reliever switched teams this off season.
The only pitcher available who fit that role was Andy Pettite.
I could be wrong but I follow hot stove pretty closely and I can’t think of a true #3 being acquired. I can think of some #1’s (santana, bedard), a #2 (haren) and a bunch of back end guys but not too many of the type of pitchers the yankees need.
The only guy I can think of who fit that sort of description was the dodgers signing Hiroki Kuroda (who’s gone on to pitch well for the dodgers).
But I did not want them to take a flier on Kuroda (who is 31 and wasn’t nearly as good in Japan as Igawa). Never mind a 4 year deal.
Blanton is still on the A’s for a reason. Dealing with Beane is absurd.
I have a feeling when all is said and done, besides the huge names who moved (Sananta, Bedard, Haren) the best pitchers acquired in the off season by new teams may be rookies - I’d guess that Edinson Volquez and Jair Jurrgens may be among the better pitchers who went to new organizations.
The reds traded Josh Hamilton for Volquez. Atlanta traded Renteria for Jurrgens.
Acquiring pitching from the outside is prohibitively expensive.
But if you have more viable candidates that could have been feasibly acquired I’d like to hear.
Yankees have made the playoffs 13 seasons in a row.
They’re 9-9.
In April.
They’re actually developing young talent, in the majors and minors.
$90+ million comes off the payroll after the next two seasons, mostly pitchers and outfielders.
The highest contentration of Yankees prospects likely to be ready to contribute over the next couple of seasons… pitchers and outfielders.
Coming off the books after this season:
1. Giambi - $23 million (!)
2. Mussina - $11 million
3. Pavano - $11 million
4. Abreu - $16 million
5. Farnsworth - $6 million
Subtotal: $67 million
Coming off the books after next season:
1. Damon - $13 million
2. Matsui - $13 million
Subtotal: $26 million
TOTAL: $93 million
SUMMARY:
It’s early in the season
Young talent is coming, nicely aligned with the talent that’s exiting
Yankees still have the most money in baseball, even more with the new stadium, and a TON of salary is coming off the books
We’re 9-9 and have played like crap the last couple of games, and people are freaking
Dennis: Ugh, yuck. The last thing we want is another ‘pen guy going down…
MNF: Probably sometime in May. I think if the rest of the team starts clicking and he’s still not, then you’ll see action, but as long as Canò and Damon are struggling, they sort of protect Giambi.
I love hyperventilating over the standings in April; it’s so meaningful.
I meant to write “As far as I can see, not one #3 quality starter switched teams this off season.” (wrote #3 reliever)
“Some of the comments on the blog tonight appeared to be written by 8-year-olds after sucking down three Mountain Dews.”
This is perhaps one of the funniest things I have ever read. Pete when are you going to start writing for Leno and Letterman?
Phil wasn’t bad at all. Lotta singles, misplay on the grounder to A Rod, Latroy blew up. Mucg better than last 2, one where he was squeezed badly, another somewhat. He had a curve ball that shoulda ben a strike at one point last night as well. A lot of youngsters getting squeezed this year. Tons of walks.
Giambi should pick it up too. Very low BABIP. That won’t last.
Yankees do have some weak spots defensively and O has been spotty at best. Tough on the young pitchers.
I dont know whats more amusing to read. The over-reators, the over- reactors to the over -reactors or the over -reactors to any post that doesn’t contain the statement “everything is fine”.
It’s over-reacting to say the season is doomed.It’s not over-reacting to point out the Yankee’s weaknesses. It’s over -reacting to say Brain Cashman is a genius. It’s not over -reacting to question his decisions in an inteliigent manner. The same guy who is responsible for the strength of our minor league system and thinks Kennedy should develop in the majors is also the same guy who showed poor judgement in signing Kei Igawa and Kyle Farsworth.
Let’s have fun and agree to disagree in an intelligent manner.
Dennis,
I don’t think Farnsworth should have thrown that pitch where it was. If it was directed at Manny’s back that’s one thing.
But that pitch was close to his neck. At the very least it was possible that Manny could have ducked into the pitch and got hit in the neck or head.
I have no problem with a fine and even a 1 game suspension. That would send enough of a message that if you’re going to brush someone back make sure it’s from the back down. I do think 3 games is too much, however given that he didn’t hit him.
Remember, Pete, trends (lack of clutch hitting with RISP, struggles of starting pitching, etc.) set during the beginning of the season tend to continue throughout the season. Look at the last few years if you like for reference.
Little reason to be optimistic. This team will have no October success.
Relax.
That is all.
Respectfully, gargoyle.
Instead of saying, “Cashman should have found a #3 pitcher”, look around yourselves for that pitcher.
Joe Blanton. You really think he is worth giving up Hughes or Kennedy AND Austin Jackson to acquire? Also, do you really think he is a #3 pitcher?
Carlos Silva. Do you really think he is worth 48 million for his services?
Honestly, do you think Brian Cashman sat on his butt on the and didn’t look at the possibilities around the league?
Really, think about it for a minute.
The guy looks 10 years older than he is. Do you think he looks that way working 40 hour work weeks?
There is NO PITCHING out there. NONE!
The Red Sox gave Bartolo Colon a shot. That’s how barren the pitching market is right now.
Its why you develop your own pitching.
If you don’t have the stomach to handle the growing pains, take time off from watching baseball until after the All Star Break. Then, as the team gets better, you can hop on the bandwagon and say you never lost faith.
Let me let you in on a little secret. Neither Hank nor Hal Steinbrenner are ticked off at Brian Cashman for taking this route.
BOTH were briefed on the positives and negatives of going in this direction and BOTH (yes, even Hank) signed off on it.
Geez, with all that’s happening to the team, they are still better off than they were a year ago at this time. Let that sink in for a moment.
They will be even better next year with the kids having a year under their belts and over 80 million dollars coming off the books.
Cashman’s plan to get younger and develop the majority of their pitching is 100% the right decision.
Its just not going to happen overnight.
Nor is it a 3 or 4 year rebuilding project.
If, by May 15, Johnny Damon and Jason Giambi aren’t hitting, they have Shelley Duncan and Brett Gardner in AAA ready to go.
In the last 3 years, Cashman has not been shy about promoting younger players.
2005: Wang and Cano
2006: Cabrera
2007: Joba and Chamberlain
It will happen again this year.
Folks just have to be a little patient.
As CB and I have stated ad nauseum, they have a solution to their starting pitching issues sitting in Nebraska right now.
Neither the Tigers, Mariners, Red Sox or Indians, 4 teams that are actively looking for starting pitchers, have a better option than Joba Chamberlain.
Its just a matter of when they decide to make the move.
Commenter Rockin’ Rich applauded Pete’s suggestion of spinning some jazz and recommended Miles Davis’s Kind of Blue. For what it’s worth, folks, the first song on that album is called: “So What?”
Perspective? Could be.
Drive: Why do I have a feeling that was partially directed at me?
LMAO
“I would advise everyone even mildly concerned( about hughes) to check out John Smoltz’s numbers for his rookie year.”
the braves record in 1988 was: 54-106
the braves record in 1989 was 63-97
hughes doesn’t have the luxury of the team not needing him. the yankees need hughes to win.
big difference.
If Farnsworth is suspended that in my opinion is complete BS
Night and day on this blog. This morning has seen some terrific discussion between randy I, CB, SJ, Murphydog, Rebecca. That’s what a good blog, of any sort, should be. I learn a lot from reading this blog and I’ve been watching/listening/reading about this game for 35 plus years. People posting during the game should be reading these exchanges before going off the deep end.
Somebody mentioned Jim Palmer last night. By the sound of it, Palmer thought Hughes was doing a good job gven his age. Palmer would know. He was pitching successfully at 21. Different era (higher mound, no DH,etc) but he’s a bright guy who’s been there and I suspect recognizes the differences between 1966 and 2008 . There’s been a handful of guys who succeeded at 21 in the last 25 years. Gooden and Saberhagen are the only ones who come to mind. Everyone else (Clemens, Cone, Pedro, Smoltz, Maddux) put it together at 23 or after.
Damon is a bigger concern. As he goes, so do the Yanks. If he’s not getting on base regularly by memorial day, I think you try out Gardner. His speed alone might be the missing weapon that changes the look of this veteran heavy team.
9-9 start with an unsettled rotation, inconsistent offense, bad weather, tough schedule?
I’ll take it gladly.
btw, loved the Al Oliver/Mussina post.
I think it is a little early to evaluate Hughes vs. Santana. We won’t know if the Yanks “made the right decision” for a long time. Today fans are ripping Hughes. If he won last night nobody would be complaining. Last week the fans at Shea booed Santana; this morning I am sure they are singing his praises.
As for Cashman, this is the final year of his contract. He will have to answer to management at the end of this season.