The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Minor pitching switch

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Apr 20, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The rotation this week:

Tuesday: Chien-Ming Wang

Wednesday: Mike Mussina

Thursday: Phil Hughes

Friday: Andy Pettitte

Saturday: Ian Kennedy

It’s a just a minor adjustment as Kennedy gets an extra day of rest and Pettitte stays on his regular turn. It serves to break up Hughes and Kennedy, which should save some wear-and-tear on the bullpen.





152 Responses to “Minor pitching switch”

  1. Vinny April 20th, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    yea but it puts mussina and hughes in consecutive starts. might as well be the same thing

  2. Betsy April 20th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    It was needed, but that means Phil pitches on 7 days rest on Thursday. I was hoping to get him into some kind of good rhythm…….hopefully he’ll be ok. If not, the Yankee boards and blogs are going to be lit up with fans venting about how overrated he is. Of course, they’re already doing that now……declaring that he is at best a #3 starter. In any case, he’ll have to make do on Thursday; this is the best move for the rotation.

    I just know that down the line, as soon as Phil gets used to his old mechanics (that he apparently used on Friday), he’s going to be fine. In fact, I do think he’ll be very good by the end of the year…….As long as he stays confident, he’ll be fine.

    I can’t say I have as much confidence in Ian – he simply doesn’t have the pure stuff that Phil does – but he’s much better than this. He’s smart – he’ll be fine eventually as well.

  3. Steph April 20th, 2008 at 8:09 pm

    At least it prevents a Moose-Hughes-Kennedy run…especially if all three of them fail to bring innings. They needed a horse down at the end of the rotation, and Andy is definitely one of those. I think Kennedy and Hughes will be fine, though. It’s just going to take a bit of time.

  4. Scott (Start Joba now!) April 20th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    Hughes looked better than his line last time out. All the doom and gloomers now crowing about how he is no better than a #3 will be eating it eventually.

    The kid’s a stud. He’ll be fine.

  5. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    Minor change that may have major effects. Sometimes it’s the really small changes that are the most important.

    Think maybe the bullpen will celebrate this one tonight?

    From the last thread:

    bronxbomber, thanks, but I’m not really known for keeping a cool hea.

  6. Mike from North Carolina April 20th, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    Good. Next they need to find a way to get Mussina out of the number two spot and into the fifth.

  7. SJ44 April 20th, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    That’s a good move on the Yankees part. I like having Andy pitch between the two kids.

  8. MLb April 20th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    “All the doom and gloomers now crowing about how he is no better than a #3 will be eating it eventually.”

    yeah ok

  9. Westerner99 April 20th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    Mike, there is no such thing as a number two spot except for the second game of the season and the second game of a playoff series. Thanks to off days and different schedules, the #1s/#2s/etc rarely match-up unless pitching rotation jiggling is done.

  10. SJ44 April 20th, 2008 at 8:17 pm

    Board moderation only works if you have registration.

    This way, the moderators are better able to weed out the troublemakers.

    Pete can’t be answering E-Mails about bad behavior in the blog while he is trying to do his job. Its not fair to him.

    I’m on board to be a moderator if that what Pete wants.

    I just think you would need registration in order to moderate the blog effectively.

    JMHO, I could be wrong.

  11. MLb April 20th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    with ian, Mussina, and phil the Yankees are doom.

  12. Brian from PA April 20th, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    that’s good. i’ve had enough of mussina-hughes-kennedy in consecutive starts already in the young season.

  13. Stephen M April 20th, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    It also insures that either Wang or Pettitte pitches in every 3-game series…something that wouldn’t have happened if Pettitte had become #2 in the rotation.

  14. Westerner99 April 20th, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    Pete has already rejected registration because he wants to keep the numbers up. We have presented alternatives to him but, so far, he doesn’t want to make any changes…so we are stuck with the current system and have to endure the trolls and BS.

  15. Betsy April 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

    Scott, I think so too. Oh well – when Phil becomes a top-flight pitcher, those of us who kept the faith can feel all warm and fuzzy. Those who jumped ship and called him overrated……..well, I don’t care for those people.

    Thank goodness for the offday – not a moment too soon, although Moose as the #2 is rough. I’m not one to bash him, though; he’s tried hard and he really has not pitched badly at all outside of that one game against Boston.

  16. Brian from PA April 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    there are plenty of websites out there for forum building with fast, easy registration processes. there are one’s that take like, 5 minutes to register for, and they have e-mail verification so you can’t just make up a fake e-mail to register. also, many of them have an “ignore” feature, where if there is one poster that absolutley drives you crazy, or if there are trolls, people can just press “ignore” on that person’s profile and you won’t be able to see their posts.
    the only problem is, a forum is a lot different than a personal blog.

  17. mel April 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm


    You are the de facto moderator. In a sane, sensible way you talk people off the ledge AND you have to shut trolls up with facts.

    Like I always say, you must be blue in the face from all the explaining you do. Those who get it get it, those who don’t never will.

  18. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 8:22 pm

    SJ: While moderation would be nice to stop the personal attacks, I don’t see it being possible as it would require access to the IP addresses of the posters (or at least their emails) in order to ban them.

    I think.

    I’m not really a technical genius, so I might not be the one to ask.

  19. MLb April 20th, 2008 at 8:23 pm

    Pete, the best writer ever don’t mess with him

  20. PAT M. April 20th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Who’s this MLB dude ( clown )…Is he lost ?????…There needs to be some house cleaning performed here before we get deep into the season…..DFA THIS GUY…

  21. Clare April 20th, 2008 at 8:24 pm

    Kat O’Brien says that ARod is going to NY tonight and will be examined there.

  22. bronxbomber77 April 20th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    Was it Bill Beane who said you have 40 games to see what kind of team you have, 40 games to fix it and 82 to compete?

    Or was it 50, 50 and 62 to compete? I forget…

    Great quote though…. Thats what I love about the MLB schedule… Unlike college football or the NFL, a loss or two early in the season doesn’t mean your team is out of playoff contention…


    “From the last thread:

    bronxbomber, thanks, but I’m not really known for keeping a cool head.”

    You could have fooled me… I’ve never read anything nasty or negative BY you or ABOUT you, so you’re doing something absolutely right on here !!! :)

  23. Ben April 20th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    I still think we should slowly be bumping Mussina down so that 2 off days later we’re looking at our rotation lined up like:

    1) CMW
    2) Hughes (Yes he’s struggling, but would you rather have him or Mussina. At least Hughes should be getting better, can’t say the same for Moose)
    3) Pettitte
    5) IPK

  24. S.A.-Phil Hughes is Saved and Joba will be a starter April 20th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    Nice to have Andy in between the kids.
    Phil wasn’t as horrific his last outing as I have been reading..I thought he was doing pretty good…except for that inning from hell. I do think Phil will be fine.

    Ian..well…Ian needs to show some more improvement..but I have faith that we will see and improved Kennedy. Just don’t know when. Hopefully soon. :)

    I think moderators would be a good idea for here

  25. Fran April 20th, 2008 at 8:29 pm

    Ben-as Westerner said, there is no number 2. It does not matter except to break up the kids. In a rotation all of the pitchers get the same number of starts. Only in playoffs does it matter.

  26. Westerner99 April 20th, 2008 at 8:31 pm

    A-Rod to NY…the mystery is solved. The Daily News can stop whining.

  27. mel April 20th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    The only moderators we need here are Boston opponents.

    The trolls only come here when there team’s on the upswing. When they lose, it’s surprisingly quiet here.

    As for reverse trolls, Yankee fans who engage in troll-like behavior what’re you going to do? It’s like a two-year old. Ignore the behavior and it disappears. Validate it and it continues.

    As for MLb, the spelling tells you all you need to know. That momma joke the other day was pretty funny, though. More stuff like that would be greatly appreciated.

  28. mel April 20th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    edit button please,


  29. Ben April 20th, 2008 at 8:34 pm


    I’m talking in general, as the whole rotation. I think it would be better to have it set up like that, I know there’s no #2, #3 guy but I think it’d be more productive to have Hughes then Pettitte then Mussina…

  30. SJ44 April 20th, 2008 at 8:36 pm


    Not really. I like Pete. He’s a really good guy and a very good beat writer.

    Frankly, he should be writing for a bigger publication. He built this blog from scratch with no money, while larger newspapers haven’t been as successful, despite heavily investing in their technology.

    It is far and away the best Yankee Blog on the ‘net. With that popularity comes an influx of more trolls. Its the price of success! lol

    There are a good group of regular posters here who love the Yankees and engage in some fun conversation. Its year round too, which makes it a real community of Yankee fans.

    That’s the whole point of being here.

    I’m not a tech guy. I don’t know how to weed out the trolls. Something tells me there are ways but I have no idea of the costs, the way of going about it, etc.

    Hopefully, we weed them out by just engaging in good, fun Yankee talk, ignoring them, and see how that works.

    Everybody can get mad and frustrated during the season. Myself included.

    Its all in how you express yourself. If you can do it in a sane way, these things usually work themselves out.

  31. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    bronxbomber: Heh. I’m sure there’s plenty bad people have said about me when I’m not looking.

    (I could make a reference to certain anatomical devices peculiar to females and knowing how to use them, or the swords, but that wouldn’t really be appropriate!)

  32. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    mel, by the way, night before last, I think, someone was impersonating you.

    We all knew it wasn’t you though, was far too negative.

    How ’bout them basketball playoffs?

  33. sunny615 April 20th, 2008 at 8:39 pm

    Pete (or LoHud) will not be instituting registration because registration will negatively affect posting/traffic. Even if it is by sometimes unwanted trolls. Moderators work only if there is registration. You could do without it, but it would involve a more tedious and mind numbing method of nixing individual posts rather than the bothersome poster as the moderator will not have access to the IP address of the violator. And I would doubt LoHud would grant access to the IP addresses of the poster/violators unless they were LoHud employees themselves. Too many legal issues would abound if they granted access to SJ44 as well intentioned as he may be. So until the Yankees become as popular as the Royals or this blog is overwhelmed with trolls, I doubt registration will come into play. And as hard as the rule is, the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them.

  34. bronxbomber77 April 20th, 2008 at 8:43 pm

    “Frankly, he should be writing for a bigger publication. He built this blog from scratch with no money, while larger newspapers haven’t been as successful, despite heavily investing in their technology.”

    NO DOUBT ! Look at how

  35. CB April 20th, 2008 at 8:46 pm

    Didn’t see the new thread…

    “The Yankees really do have a ton of talent in the pipeline, at various stages of development, in their farm system. That will sort itself out.”

    A number of people have said that a primary reason that the Yanks can’t afford to go with young pitchers this season is because ARod, Jeter, and Posada are still in the productive phases of their careers and you can’t waste one of those peak years in their respective careers (same goes with Mo though he’s a bit older).

    What that argument implicitly assumes however is that the Yankee’s won’t be able to replace the production of ARod, Jeter, Posada and Mo once they begin to decline. That’s why now, this season is so urgent.

    But if they continue in the direction they are going in now, there is no reason to believe that this team isn’t going to develop new Jeter’s and Posada’s thorugh their system.

    The amount of talent they have, especially in A ball, is staggering.

    They now, for the first time in years, are going to be able to replace this older group of players when the time comes by drawing on internal talent.

    But the hardest thing to develop is pitching because so much of the learning has to take place at the major league level.

    This crash course for Joba, Phil, Ian and Ohlendorf (who should not longer be left out of their promising young pitching) is a risk.

    But bringing them up while ARod, Jeter, etc. are still being productive actually makes a lot of sense because that’s what gives the team the chance to win while rebuilding the pitching – knowing that you have great players like an ARod who will hopefully be able to compensate for the problems the young pitchers will have.

    IMO that was the right risk to take, especially when you consider the talent that is going to be coming.

  36. mel April 20th, 2008 at 8:46 pm


    Thanks. I’ve been busy, may have to come around to keep the trolls honest.

  37. bronxbomber77 April 20th, 2008 at 8:48 pm

    “Frankly, he should be writing for a bigger publication. He built this blog from scratch with no money, while larger newspapers haven’t been as successful, despite heavily investing in their technology.”

    NO DOUBT ! Look at how quickly the Ellsbury-Schilling-Papelbon Network gobbled up that no-talent clown Bill Simmons, the ‘sports guy of Beantown’….

    If anyone has a clue in Bristol, they will see what Pete has built (himself, more or less, with all due respect to the Lohud SE, Susan Barth, I believe it is), and make a run at our boy !

    Who here wouldn’t rather see Pete instead of John Kruk, with his lost briefcase full of bugs (that commercial upsets me to no end!) on Baseball Tonight?

    But, props to Pete, I do see him popping up on ESPN shows more frequently than many of his competitors who come from bigger papers. Has anyone ever seen George King the 3rd on ESPN? Or even Tyler Kepner, for that matter?

    I don’t think Kat O’Brien even knows where ESPN is located….

    Okay, that last line was mean. But Newsday is GARBAGE…

  38. Rob NY April 20th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

    LOL bronxbomber, that bug briefcase commercial irritates me to no end. I dont know why it does but everytime I see it I get the urge to throw something at the TV.

  39. owlnation April 20th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    “Not really. I like Pete. He’s a really good guy and a very good beat writer.

    Frankly, he should be writing for a bigger publication. He built this blog from scratch with no money, while larger newspapers haven’t been as successful, despite heavily investing in their technology.

    It is far and away the best Yankee Blog on the ‘net.”

    Just wanted to take a moment to echo those words. Actually, I’ll go a step further. Pete is the best writer on the Yankees out there, anywhere. He’s probably one of the best in a generation. It’s incredible that he’s not been picked up by bigger publications, however when he is I really hope he has time to keep writing this blog, since it’s my primary source of Yankee information.

    Keep up the great work Pete, it’s really appreciated.

  40. Westerner99 April 20th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    I don’t want Pete to be swallowed up by ESPN…that place is evil. :)

  41. bphill April 20th, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    I like when i see Pete on ESPN though…I tell my friends I read that guys blog every day…pretty cool

  42. V April 20th, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    Question for SJ44/CB, Re: Ian Kennedy -

    I keep seeing you guys mention Kennedy’s start last year, and how he needs to be more aggressive in the zone – from watching the game, it didn’t seem like aggression or lack of was the problem, IMO, but just flawed mechanics – ALL of his pitches were sailing off the plate – if he wanted it on the outside, it sailed outside for a ball. If he wanted it inside, it sailed in for a ball – for a pitcher who’s vaunted for being a control pitcher, that was a total lack of control.

  43. jay destro April 20th, 2008 at 8:55 pm

    this rotation has it’s extreme highs and very very extreme lows. there needs to be some middle ground built and soon.

  44. Chris April 20th, 2008 at 8:56 pm

    I know we need to be concerned about the bullpen, but I think Girardi is handling the bullpen far better than Torre did. Every reliever has 7 or 8 appearances (except Joba who only has 6).

    The relievers with the most projected appearances only project to 65 games this year. Ohlendorf is currently on pace for 113 innings in 57 games (Mo pitched 108 innings in 61 games while a setup man in 96).

    Despite how poorly the starters have pitched so far this year, the bullpen doesn’t seem to be on the verge of burning out the way it has in the past.

  45. Westerner99 April 20th, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    Chris – good point…and I’ll bet Ollie’s numbers go down as they move him out of the long relief role and into more of a 7th inning/8th inning role.

  46. Westerner99 April 20th, 2008 at 8:59 pm

    edit…Ollie’s innings go…

  47. pat April 20th, 2008 at 8:59 pm

    “I don’t think Kat O’Brien even knows where ESPN is located….”

    You may think she doesn’t know where ESPN is located but according to Clare she does seem to be the only one who knows where A-Rod is located.

  48. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 8:59 pm

    You guys want to know what’s weird?

    When I meet a couple guys in class that happen to be big baseball fans, talk to them, one mentions he reads Yankees blogs, I ask him which one and he says LoHud.

    Or when my brother brings his friend home after the Big East tournament and the following ensues:

    Brother: I told my friend about your blog.
    Friend: Yeah, I read a bunch of the blogs.
    Me: Really? Which ones?
    Friend: LoHud…
    Me: Dude, you read LoHud, I post on it all the time… (yadda yadda)

    That is so totally my favorite part.

  49. Doreen April 20th, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    Hey Everyone –

    Just finished catching up.

    In the car on the way home today, we were able to figure out that the Yankees won, that Pettitte pitched one heck of a game, that Jeter broke the game open in the 9th. But we didn’t hear about ARod’s injury. Ouch! I hope it isn’t all that bad, and that at any rate if dovetails nicely with his paternity leave.

    How bad WAS Giambi today?

    When I started the reading the game posts, if I hadn’t already discovered they’d won, I wouldn’t necessarily have picked it up from them. But it seems like the huge consensus here was that Giambi is never going to turn it around. He sure seemed to work hard over the off-season, arriving in much better shape than he’s been. He had a good spring and I’m not just talking about his batting average. He seemed to be running the bases better, making some decent plays at first, and at least attempting to beat the shift. I suppose getting off to a slow start, along with many others getting off to that slow start, he slipped into old habits. The reason Giambi is tabbed to play the field is that the statistics (and everyone’s eyes) overwhelmingly show that when he is a DH, he doesn’t hit well. So, DHing him, or making him a pinch hitter probably isn’t going to help him start hitting. Will he be able to play part-time (in the field)? I imagine we’ll be finding that out fairly soon. I don’t think they’re going to totally bench Jason, nor do I believe they’ll DFA him. At this point, I don’t know how much is about the money. They’re paying him and he’s playing, but he’s not really earning that paycheck. If they replace him with Ensberg/Duncan, it won’t cost them any extra money. I don’t really understand why they didn’t re-sign Mantkiewicz in the first place, especially if they truly are considering trying to get him back, but that’s really neither here nor there.

    I’m glad to see the adjustment in the pitching rotation. It’s good to break up the kids this way.

    As for the trolls, I’ve always found scrolling past works wonders. As for the bickering that sometimes goes on here, it’s childish and, again, scrolling past works wonders.

    Nice win today by the Yankees. I’m sure they’re all welcoming tomorrow’s day off.

    I also agree that it’s far too early to be watching what the Red Sox do in any hard-core way. Of course we all look at boxscores and glance at the standings, but you can’t really pay attention to them. The Yankees can’t control what the Red Sox do unless they are actually playing them.

  50. SJ44 April 20th, 2008 at 9:07 pm


    When I heard the post game last night and heard Kennedy say how he had to be “careful” with hitters, it sent a red flag up for me.

    When that happens to a pitcher, they begin to aim the ball instead of just letting it go. They start thinking too much.

    It looks like their mechanics are messed up but, its really their heads that get messed up.

    They give the hitters too much respect and try to be too fine. That pitching philosophy gets you beat.

    I heard Greg Maddox at a pitching clinic several years ago. One of the questions asked of him by one of the kids was, “Do you think about your mechanics when you are struggling”.

    Maddox said, “I never think about my mechanics. When I am struggling, I throw slower. Hitters are so geared up for faster when they see a pitcher struggle, I throw slower and it completely messes up their timing.” Something Ian should take under advisement when he struggles in an inning.

    He will have a game, hopefully soon, where he just says, “@$#% it I am just lettin’ go and doin’ my thing”.

    He will have success and that will be planted in his memory that he doesn’t have to be so fine with ML hitters.

    I thought he had that moment in Tampa. Unfortunately, he took two giant steps backward last night.

    Hopefully, it clicks in Chicago for him. If it doesn’t, he may need some AAA time to figure it out.

    I think he will though. He can pitch. He just has to deal with the adversity he’s had so far and grow from it.

    Its a very, very humbling game. Jason Giambi can confirm that to him these days.

  51. CB April 20th, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    “I keep seeing you guys mention Kennedy’s start last year, and how he needs to be more aggressive in the zone – from watching the game, it didn’t seem like aggression or lack of was the problem, IMO, but just flawed mechanics”

    It’s not mechanics. Kennedy himself said last night after the game his mechanics are fine and his arm feels good. He described it as “mental.” When a pitcher says that I’d believe him.

    I think the main thing is that Kennedy is trying to be too fine with his fastball. He’s constantly trying to paint the edges with it – that’s why it looks like it’s sailing out of the zone – he’s trying to hit the corner with it every time and when you aim the ball like that it’s not a natural, relaxed way to throw.

    Paradoxically the ball is not going where he wants it because he’s trying to be too exact where it’s going. He’s trying to hit a bulls eye every time. At least that’s the difference I see between last year and this year.

    I remember when Kennedy moved up from A ball to AA. That first game in AA he threw was probably the worst game he threw all last year.

    The next start in AA he was great. After that game he said the mistake he’d made in that first AA game was giving the AA hitters too much credit for being too good. He thought coming from A that he’d have to “improve” his approach.

    And that made him tentative and try to be too fine. It’s built on the idea that his stuff just isn’t good enough to win at that next level.

    After that first start he went back to how he was pitching in A ball and then was dominant again.

    Looking at him pitch now – not just the pitches – but his hesitant body language on the mound it looks to me that he’s doing the same thing here.

    He’s not trusting his stuff in the majors because he’s thinking that if he doesn’t make a perfect pitch it’s going to get hit.

    That’s the difference between last year and this year. Last year he came up in the middle of the season and just pitched his game.

    This season he’s had a whole off season to think about expectations, the trust the yankees are showing him, pithcing in new york, etc. I think that’s the reason he’s been so bad – he’s just trying to be too fine.

    Pitching in the majors is about making adjustments. The adjustment he needs to make now to succeed in the majors, ironically, is to pitch more like he did in the minors by trusting his stuff.

  52. SJ44 April 20th, 2008 at 9:13 pm


    Re: Giambi, it was bad today. Very bad.

    So bad that if you are associated with the Yankees in a management/ownership capacity, you gotta really think about what to do with him if he can’t get it going in the next week or two. Its a tough spot for Giambi and the Yankees to be in right now.

    You can’t put a guy out there everyday who can’t hit a lick and is just awful defensively.

    The throw he made from first to second, missing the Roberts pickoff by a mile, was sadder than his AB’s.

    Its really bad for him right now. About as bad as it gets.

    Its going to be a very interesting week or two for Giambi. Arod’s injury is going to give him more AB’s this week to get it together.

    If we are having this conversation about his futility a week from now, with no signs of improvement, I have a feeling the click will be ticking on his time with the Yankees, regardless of the financial ramifications.

  53. Yankees fan stuck in Ohio... April 20th, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    Will anybody be in Cleveland for the series this weekend??

  54. Doreen April 20th, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    SJ44 -

    Ew! I guess I’m glad I missed that. If he was driving in runs, that would be something, but since he is not, well, you’re right – they’re going to be forced to address the situation. It’s sad, I think.

  55. whoa April 20th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    Moose is a bigger concern than Hughes or IPK>

  56. CB April 20th, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    “The reason Giambi is tabbed to play the field is that the statistics (and everyone’s eyes) overwhelmingly show that when he is a DH, he doesn’t hit well. So, DHing him, or making him a pinch hitter probably isn’t going to help him start hitting.”

    This is said a lot about Giambi. The press reports it all the time.

    This is a classic way in which people use statistics in baseball without understanding statistics.

    It’s very common that people will look at one factor in isolation and then associate it with an outcome they are interested in – such as hitting home runs, etc.

    In baseball people are constantly looking at these kinds of “splits.”

    But splits are often misleading and it’s not very often people in other areas will rely so much on these kinds of split statistics.

    A really silly example of this is when people talk about how Igawa is much better without his sunglasses than with his sunglasses on – that’s a kind of split.

    With Giambi in the field vs. DH the thing people don’t factor in is the distribution of his at bats. That’s probably the real story.

    Giambi’s statistics do look much, much better when he’s at first base. That doesn’t mean playing first base makes him hit better, however.

    The real issue is that when Giambi was younger he was a full time first baseman. He only got more at bats as a DH when he got older and his body started breaking down.

    So the reason why Giambi has that 1st/ DH split isn’t likely to be because of the positional issue – it’s because of the age issue. That’s the main reason why those statistics look so extreme.

    He probably does feel more comfortable in the field. But the age/ injury issues are the real story behind that split.

  57. mike April 20th, 2008 at 9:24 pm

    who died and made anonymous posters like sj44 and cb pro scouts? Please people. They r just fans. Stop thinking they know things because they read baseball prospectus

  58. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 9:25 pm

    I think the crowning moment in Giambi’s albatross-ness today came when he GIDP’d with the bases loaded.

    I forget what inning it was, but the Yankees were *really* getting to Trachsel and could have broken the game wide, wide open there–it was before the 7th because the game was still 2-0.

    You talk about not hitting with RISP, that’s one thing, but even in this case a strikeout would have been better than a GIDP hit right into the Giambi Shift.

    The way Melky’s been swinging the bat, if he had been able to bat after Giambi, you would have thought he’d have a much better chance at coming through.

    It’s gotten to the point where if Giambi is facing Mike Timlin, he’ll do serious damage, but anyone else, it’s almost an automatic out.

    With guys like Canò, you have faith that they will come around–Robbie and Damon both showed signs of life today–but with Giambi you just feel like he’s a clog, not a cog.

    And besides. I miss Shelley’s enthusiasm.

  59. Yankees fan stuck in Ohio... April 20th, 2008 at 9:26 pm

    sj44…you think they will just let him go and call duncan back up or trade him?

  60. RSM April 20th, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    Toronto just released Frank Thomas. That took guts to do. Now Giambi has a bigger contract, but it is the last year. I’ve always been a fan of his, and have been truly disappointed that he never lived up to expectations in NY. But that said, if he doesn’t show improvement soon, releasing him may become a real possibility.

  61. jay destro April 20th, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    08:$21M and 09 $5M buyout.

    that means you have to give giambi $26M to walk away and not play in 2008.

    they ain’t doin’ that. there’s gonna be no “on good terms” frank thomas type deal. they have stuck with giambi this far, they aren’t walking away.

  62. Stephen M April 20th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    Re: Kennedy being to fine.

    In a recent profile of Rivera (can’t remember which one), they asked Joba about what he’s learned from Mo. He told a story about standing together in the outfield during batting practice and watching the fouls and grounders.

    Mo told him (paraphrasing) “These hitters know what’s coming, what speed it’ll be at and that the balls will be down the middle of the plate, and the hitters STILL hit grounders.”

    The point, Joba said, was to not be afraid to throw strikes. Wise words for a pitcher to live by.

  63. Yankees fan stuck in Ohio... April 20th, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    if anybody will take a worthless 37 yr old…this is the last year on his contract isnt it?

  64. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    Mo is brilliant.

  65. jay destro April 20th, 2008 at 9:32 pm

    Giambi is not tradable. He has a full NTC and a contract that puts you on the hook for over $20M.

    unless some team wants a to give a confessed ex-steroid monster turned huge disappointment with an albatross of a contract an extension, there is NO WAY you can trade Giambi.

    there are only a few real options.

    1. You play him.
    2. You pay him and release.
    3. You pay him and bench.

    aside from that, no way jason giambi is not on this team after july 31st.

  66. Yankees fan stuck in Ohio... April 20th, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    sorry didnt see that buyout comment

  67. RSM April 20th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    It might be time to audition Shelly for the full time first base job. See how he does playing every day for 3-4 weeks. If he does an acceptable job, then release Giambi.

    Additionally, with Ensberg and AG, Betemit has become expendable.

  68. mike April 20th, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    I’d be real careful with that no way giambi is not on this team after July 31.

  69. PAT M. April 20th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    Jason Giambi is not going to be DFA’d, nor is going to be selling brewskies in the stands….He’s hitting himself out of the lineup…So the next step is part time duty in a capacity that he can succeed…DH and or PH….Joe Giradi has stayed with him regardless who’s throwing and he’s failing to produce….His bat speed looks fine, his hands seem to hesitate everso slowly…..Giambi was an outstanding hitter when he hit to all fields….Until he reverts back to that, he’ll be no more than a .225 hitter this season…..

  70. jay destro April 20th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    i love how people have this “Release Giambi” idea in their head.

    this team has yet to release any of their dead weight players, why would they just release Jason Giambi?!?!

    Carl Pavano was not released! I mean people, think realistically, it’s $26 million. They are not paying someone that much money to walk away. There would be no negotiation, there would be no comprise made, it would simply be paying Giambi $26M. No way no how they are doing it. This team just doesn’t operate that way.

  71. Yankees fan stuck in Ohio... April 20th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    good point i forgot all about pavano…

  72. Jorge Steinbrenner (the long lost third brother) April 20th, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Jay: The “release Giambi” sentiment probably grows today with Frank Thomas’ release. I believe the Jays are eating a lot less money than we would if we cut ties with Giambi. The team has also invested a lot more in Giambi than the Jays did in Thomas, a player they signed in the twilight of his career anyway. I don’t think we cut ties with a guy we didn’t cut ties with years ago, when we didn’t know what he was going to look like coming back from injury and the steroid controversy.

    I do think the logjam that is 1B/DH/OF needs to be cleared up. I have fantasies of Shelley Duncan coming back up and being that offensive sparkplug again. In more ways than one, they may be just fantasies.

    Great posts by CB tonight, btw.

  73. mel April 20th, 2008 at 9:58 pm

    There’s no need to do anything about Giambi. He’ll get injured and either sit or DL, depending on the severity.

    If he doesn’t get injured and continues to hover around the Mendoza line divided by 2, then we may see a mysterious, vague ailment/condition/injury that warrants a DL and rehab assignment.

  74. JB April 20th, 2008 at 10:00 pm


  75. mel April 20th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    Also, I’m I crazy to imagine that IF we make the playoffs, we’re more likely to see Gardner than Giambi on the playoff roster if Giambi’s not hitting by then?

  76. Sean the Disabled Mess April 20th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    As of right now, we only have 2 reliable starting pitchers. :(

  77. jay destro April 20th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    We don’t have any room in the of for Gardner we also have better of options in tabata and ajax. Gardner could be better used as a trade chip.

  78. Big C April 20th, 2008 at 10:07 pm

    Why not release Giambi? Yeah it’s a ton of money but this is the Yankees we’re talking about, not the Twins.

    What matters more anyways, trying to maximize the value on what has ended up being a fairly bad investment or giving yourself a better chance to win by allowing Shelley Duncan or Morgan Ensberg to play more at 1st base? I like Duncan a lot, I really do. But I’m also not foolish enough to think he will be the Yankees panacea when he comes back up. But to think at this point that he would not be doing better than what Giambi has done and furthermore, that he at a much younger and hungrier age will not do just as good if not better than Giambi, if foolhardy. Giambi is done. Cut the bait and move on. If nothing else, it makes a statement and cleans the air a bit.

  79. Rob NY April 20th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    JD i think alot of people prefer Gardner for right now because he is more experienced than those 2, is lightning fast, and most importantly is ready. Action and Tabata are still fresh out of A-Ball and probably wont be on the big team until next season at the earliest. Besides that, Tabata is struggling at AA right now so you dont really want to throw him in the fire during a slump.

    As far as Gardner being a trade chip; what could help that cause more than him coming in, taking Damon’s spot as leadoff and LF and running with it. It’s a win win if you ask me.

  80. mel April 20th, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    The sad part is that we piss and moan about Pavano. But he’s only costing us $10M per year. That’s half of G’s salary.

    I’m a pretty positive person, but the patience is running out for Giambi. Hopefully he’ll bounce back from the awful game he had today.

  81. mel April 20th, 2008 at 10:14 pm

    Cashman & Girardi like Gardner. He’s unique in their eyes (well unique for the Yankees in that he’s young, quick, and persistant!).

  82. myrtlebeachfan April 20th, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    Gardner and Ajax are playing very well this year while Tabata is struggling. I’d like to see Gardner stay in AAA and get some much needed at bats and be brought up late in the season when (hopefully) Johnny Damon gets injured.

  83. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 20th, 2008 at 10:17 pm

    “I want him as a starter and so does everyone else, including him, and that is what we are working toward and we need him there now,”

    Hank speaks Joba

  84. Papelboner April 20th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    Bottom line and its been stated before the state of this team will rest on our 3-4-5 in the rotation. If we can’t pitch more than 3 innings an outing it doesn’t matter who is playing LF we will not win.

    Priority 1 – get hughes, kennedy and moose right. Or at least giving us a chance to win ball games.

    Give Giambi 100 AB’s. If he is still not hitting, do something. I can’t see them releasing him.

    10 and 10 isn’t soo bad condering the dismal offense with RISP, terrible outings from 3 -4 -5 in the rotation. Cold Weather. 20 games in 20 days. Injuries.

    it’s not where you would like to be, but could be a lot worse considering

    I’ll take it.

  85. jiimmy27 April 20th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    Brandon thanks for posting Hank’s change of heart -
    does this mean that ongoing and going Joba-starter/bullben argument will end????
    Who am I kidding?

  86. PAT M. April 20th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

    I think that the Pabelboner dude hits the current Yankee situation right on the screws….

  87. Papelboner April 20th, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Joba 100% is going to the rotation. He has 4 plus pitches. He has the potential to be a true number 1.

  88. Rob NY April 20th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

    Wow I have to say I love the new Steinbrenner quote machine. This gem actually had me laughing outloud sitting by myself in my living room “He also said he thought Mike Mussina, who is 39, “just needs to learn how to pitch like Jamie Moyer,””

    Somebody should have told Moose that before… Just pitch like Moyer. Thank you Brandon.

  89. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 20th, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    no problem thank Michael S. Schmidt he got the 411 I just copy and paste

  90. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 10:36 pm

    Papelboner: Pete oughta print that post out and post it on the top of this blog for, say, the next month.

  91. V April 20th, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    I’d love to see Joba in the rotation as soon as possible – if he has to go back to the bullpen at the end of the year, that’s fine, IMO.

  92. V April 20th, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    ““The starting rotation is not what I would have chosen at the beginning of the year, but that is not a big news flash to anyone,” Steinbrenner said.”

    That sounds like a thinly veiled Santana reference ;-)

  93. jay destro April 20th, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    I made the moyer comparison weeks ago. Hank is stealing my quotes.

  94. jay destro April 20th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    V I don’t see a lot of thin in that. Its thicker than WIC peanut butter

  95. S.A.-Phil Hughes is Saved and Joba will be a starter April 20th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    Oh that Hank

  96. mel April 20th, 2008 at 10:41 pm


    Yes, but nobody will believe it unless it comes from the horse’s mouth. :)

  97. Bob April 20th, 2008 at 10:43 pm

    Every time the Yanks have a day off they are going to make a similar adjustment. If nothing else, this is a way of cutting down on the innings of Hughes and Kennedy. In turn, it gives Wang and Pettitte more starts, which is even better.

  98. Jax April 20th, 2008 at 10:45 pm

    Can Hank get over Santana already. It’s over! He’s with the Mets, get over it Hank.

  99. mel April 20th, 2008 at 10:47 pm


    LOL. But Hank wants his toy. He’s going to beat up Omar to get it back.

  100. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    Toy, Hank and Omar should never be used in the same sentence.

  101. Betsy April 20th, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    I really hate Hank – he’s everything is smart younger brother is not. He just made his GM and the rest of the organization sound like morons. However, what’s he going to do? Order the team to move Joba now? The man is a bag of gas…he can’t force Cashman and Girardi to move Joba. I guess he can, but then I think either or both of Brian and Joe would quit first. What an imbecilic statement, but I guess M&MD will think this is the bee’s knees as they think Hank is entertaining. He’s not entertaining – he’s worse than his father. I don’t recall even George trying to butt into the every day running of the team.

  102. mel April 20th, 2008 at 10:54 pm


    HaHa. Challenge for the night, guys. Use Hank, Omar, and toy in the same sentence.

    Hank will chew up Omar like a doggie toy

    My condolences on your Devils. :(

    BTW, so far, so good for the playoffs. Fantastic game for Gasol 38/16/8/3 blks in his first ever playoff win in 13 tries.

  103. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Betsy: Hank knows what he’s doing. Don’t pay attention to what he says; in the long run that doesn’t matter. Pay attention to what he does.

  104. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 10:56 pm

    mel: I was just beginning to get past that… (GO PENS! GO BRUINS! GO CAPS!)

  105. mel April 20th, 2008 at 10:57 pm


    Ha! Seems like the love/hate here for Hank runs along gender lines. I guess the ladies here don’t think too much of ‘Gentleman’ Hank Steinbrenner. Can you imagine what it’s like to be his wife or girlfriend? What an oaf.

  106. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 20th, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    CB had the best analysis of Joba going into the rotation and how it would help the team more than him in the BP, but again it will be somewhere around interleague play IMO that his conversion will begin.

  107. Papelboner April 20th, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    You have to protect Joba’s arm.

    Joba would first have to stretch his arm out. I am not sure how much time and innings he needs to build his arm up, but it is not like we just hit the switch and Joba is a starter. it is a process.

    Hank sometimes doesn’t know when to shut up.

    If there is one guys arm I’m taking care of: its Joba

    Hey Pete, here is a request for the blog: Can you have the tech guys add the names of the yankee players to the spell checker?

  108. Rob NY April 20th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    Bruins? I live in Boston and have been SCREAMING GO HABS!!!! every afternoon on my way home from the gym, past the garden. I cant stand Boston sports fans.

    You’re right Mel, because I get a real kick out of the way Gentleman Hank wanders around spouting off at the mouth while reporters pick up those scraps like the fish that cling to sharks.

  109. mel April 20th, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    Rob NY,

    lol. I was going to say it’s like parasitic symbiosis, but it’s more like mutual symbiosis. Hank needs them as much as they need him.

  110. Rob NY April 20th, 2008 at 11:09 pm

    Yeah you make a very good point. He probably is addicted to all the newly found attention. lol He probably called the reporter and asked if he wanted some quotes.

  111. CB April 20th, 2008 at 11:18 pm

    Hank has always been adamant about Joba being in the starting rotation at some point this year.

    It’s pretty clear from those quotes that the original plan Cashman had for Joba going to the pen is not only in place, but perhaps coming sooner than originally planned (which I have my concerns about).

    Hank can be very blustery and abrasive. But to date he’s done what all of those other blustery/ abrasive owners haven’t done – he’s left the personnel moves up to the baseball people.

    As long as an owner does that – and Hank and Hal have been very good about that – then they can talk all they want (and ultimately it is their team).

    Compare Hank to say Mark Cuban or Dan Synder.

    And Hank has been very vocal about how he watched his dad’s ownership style and didn’t like it – he didn’t like the yelling at the people who worked for him and didn’t like the meddling. I think he’s learned from that.

    I also think Hank makes these statements with a very specific intention in mind and does so at a very specific point in time to get a message across.

    I have a feeling that a primary audience for that statement was the press. The media are almost entirely of the camp that joba must stay as a reliever. That goes from Bob Klapisch to Mike Francesa. Even Susan Waldman and John Sterling insist Joba has to stay in the pen. Pete is one of the few who thinks joba needs too be in the rotation.

    I think part of why Hank makes these grand proclamations is to create a different media narrative – to set the story or to change the story about what’s going on with the team.

    And by making himself the center of attention he takes some of the heat off of Girardi and Cashman.

    Mike and the Mad Dog can yell all they want at Hank – that makes it easier on the players, manager and general manager.

    People in NY are so accustomed to the yankee’s owner being the primary decision maker that Hanks’s word is going to go down as the bottom line.

    But the idea of Joba needing to be a starter was what Cashman had in mind the entire time. No one in the organization ever looked at him as a reliever until he was forced into that role out of need last year.

    I also don’t think they are just going to rush him into the rotation. They’ll stretch him out but even more importantly they aren’t going to take chances on his innings limit (unless that happens in the post season).

    They are not going to endanger joba’s health. Too much of the franchise’s future depends on it – both near term and long term.

    I think that statement is very helpful. It makes a clear opposition to this nonstop media narrative that moving joba from the pen is the absolutely worst move possible.

  112. Amanda from La. April 20th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    this week: moose, phil, and ipk are going to be great!

  113. Back Bench April 20th, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    As a 1st step to getting Joba stretched out for the starting rotation, would it make sense to swap the de facto roles Joba and Ohlendorf are playing now? Several folks have said Ohlendorf could/should take on the set up role.

    So move Joba to the ‘long relief’ role for the next few weeks. We will need a good one, because Girardi/Eiland are juggling 3 development/reconstruction projects simultaneously, and it is a stretch of hope they will all pan out. Joba will get a lot of innings quickly.

  114. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 20th, 2008 at 11:23 pm

    now that’s how to end a Sunday Night game

  115. Travis G. April 20th, 2008 at 11:26 pm

    “with ian, Mussina, and phil the Yankees are doom.”

    oh yeah? well all your base are belong to us!

    i’d still rather have Hughes ahead of Moose.

  116. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 20th, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    Brandon: What happened?

  117. CB April 20th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    “would it make sense to swap the de facto roles Joba and Ohlendorf are playing now? ”

    I like this idea or at least a modified version of it.

    Given Joba’s fairly strict innings limit I’d like to see him get stretched out in the big leagues so as many of the innings he can throw go towards helping the big league team as possible.

    Say to get stretched out he needs 3-4 starts that go something like 3 innings, 5 innings, 7 innings or something like that. That could total 15-17 innings.

    He only has 140 innings total alloted to him. So in stretching him out it could be 10% of his total allotted innings. That’s not an insignificant amount.

    So what they could do is on planned days let Mussina go 5 innings and then give Joba 3 innings a few times. Or something like that.

    It shouldn’t be a typical long man role – it has to be more structured than that to make sure Joba works every 5 days and gets more and more stretched out.

    Overall, though I’d like to see all of his innings (or as many as possible) be thrown in the majors. If he needs to make one start in the minors so be it.

    I have no idea is this is feasible or if it would be better for his arm to do this in Tampa under supervision. But that’s just my take given his low total inning allotment this year.

  118. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 20th, 2008 at 11:32 pm

    “Brandon: What happened?”

    runners on 1st and 2nd more importantly 2 outs the last guy you’d think would on the field make a game ending webgem did :lol:

  119. CB April 20th, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    Jimmy Rollins who…?

  120. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 20th, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    I take it you saw it CB :lol:

  121. Back Bench April 20th, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    Just an aside as to why Joba is going to be a wonderful part of the Yankees for a long time, and why Mo is the best.

    Nearing the end of BP on Saturday night, Joba came out of the dugout and the place went crazy. Mo, after doing his warmups in the OF, came over, put his mitt on the grass, and started signing for the fans. They loved it and he was at it for a long time.

    Joba was doing his stretching exercises and looked over to see Mo signing away. No other Yankee was even acknowledging the fans. Joba turned snd started his sprints across LF.

    Joba comes back the other way and stops, looks over, and sees Mo still signing for the fans. He turns and sprints again. This repeats several times.

    Finally, Joba looks at Mo signing everything the fans put in his way. He starts to sprint away, stops, puts his mitt down just like Mo, and walks over to the wall, stands close to Mo and starts signing.

    What a great teacher. What a great student.

  122. CB April 20th, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    The mets are just a strange team. They did take 2 out of 3 but there is just something about them. It’s not a great division so they should get by but that was the case last year…

    They need a big fist half because they are so old and thin they are going to need a cushion come the second half.

    It’s the little things that are going to come back and hurt them as well as the thin pitching. Not having an Alberto Gonzalez, a Morgan Ensberg, a Jed Lowerie to fill in for injuries.

  123. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 20th, 2008 at 11:43 pm

    that’s why I don’t have them winning the NL East.

  124. David April 20th, 2008 at 11:44 pm

    Brandon thanks for posting that article, it made my night. I love Hank. The guy knows what the Yankees need and he’s going to make it happen. The best thing about him is he’s not going to listen to all the critics and he’s going to get the ball rolling with Joba getting into the rotation. You feel confident with Hank Steinbrenner running the show that there won’t be any fluffing and this will get done ASAP.

    Next, the way things are going, I think Hank will put the hammer down on Giambi. And Hank Steinbrenner didn’t change his mind BTW, he always wanted Joba to be a starter.

  125. Travis G. April 20th, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    pelfrey has given up more HRs in one start tonight than Hughes and Kennedy combined this season.

  126. CB April 20th, 2008 at 11:51 pm


    BTW have you happened to be following Angel Villalona’s season down in the Sally League?

    He’s the only player younger than Montero (by a around 9 months). The second highest signing bonus ever for an international signee (more than montero but less than willy mo pena).

    Villalona was considered the top prospect in low A ball coming into the season. #33 on the BA top 100 – very unusual for a low A player to be that high never mind a true 18 yo but Villalona is considered an absolute man-child physically.

    If not check it out. It’ll put Montero season in a different light.

  127. CB April 20th, 2008 at 11:53 pm


    BTW have you happened to be following Angel Villalona’s season down in the Sally League?

    He’s the only player younger than Montero (by a around 9 months). The second highest signing bonus ever for an international signee (more than montero but less than willy mo pena).

    Villalona was considered the top prospect in low A ball coming into the season. #33 on the BA top 100 – very unusual for a low A player to be that high never mind a true 18 yo but Villalona is considered an absolute man-child physically.

    If not check it out. It’ll put Montero season in a different light.

  128. dociac April 20th, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    good to see others hate mussina as much as i do…joba should be the future closer, he can effect more games that way

  129. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 20th, 2008 at 11:57 pm

    I like Pelfrey, I really do think he will win 15 games and has real good stuff but he gets strikeout happy instead of trying to get the ground ball he gets bat shy, goes high and leaves it in the wheel house.

    prior to tonight I think his GO/AO total was 28:12, that was him at his best. Tonight..ewwww

  130. Betsy April 20th, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    Hank just gets my goat, every time, LOL – even though I know he’s basically impotent without his brother backing him up. I guess it says something about him that he’s got to feed his desire for media attention every so often – oh well. In one ear and out the other?

  131. RustyJohn April 20th, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    I like how Hank “solved” Mussina’s problems by telling him tojust throw like Moyer- as soon as Mussina figures out how to throw left handed and incorporates one of the top 5 change-ups in the game in his arsenal, he should be fine…oh, he needs to locate too. But other than that, Moose should be fine and one his way to win number 300.

  132. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 April 21st, 2008 at 12:00 am

    I’ve heard of Villalona. Who is he with again? San Francsico?

  133. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 21st, 2008 at 12:01 am

    CB, I didn’t pay attention to him until now Angel Villalona is 18 I even forgot that

    overall (.234/.302/.383)

    good news is he’s killing LHP but RHP is owning him

    .184/.279/.316 vs RHP

  134. Rob NY April 21st, 2008 at 12:04 am

    Yar Rebecca, SF Giants organization

  135. Rob NY April 21st, 2008 at 12:05 am

    3rd baseman.

  136. Betsy April 21st, 2008 at 12:06 am

    CB – I’d like to think that Hank is as smart as that, but I don’t know…….To be fair, although he drives me crazy with these comments, he hasn’t done anything stupid. However, I firmly believe that he is being held in check by his brother. I much prefer Hal’s way of doing things….plus I appreciate the fact that he likes Phil as much as Hank likes Joba, lol. Seriously, he’s the one that held that trade up (well, he and Cash) even though Hank wanted Johan…..and badly. To be fair again, Hal has said that it’s almost Hank’s job (or that Hank likes it…..I forget) to deal with the media as Hal does not like that part of the job and prefers to just do his thing quietly. It’s interesting to have two completely different brothers running this team….checks and balances, I love it!

  137. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 21st, 2008 at 12:07 am

    “3rd baseman.”

    wrong first baseman

  138. Rob NY April 21st, 2008 at 12:12 am;id=4737

    And a few other sites say he’s a 3rd baseman. /shrug am I looking at a different guy?

  139. Eugie April 21st, 2008 at 12:12 am

    Moving Joba from the pen is the dumbest idea ever. Has anyone ever heard of the saying, “if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it”?

  140. Rob NY April 21st, 2008 at 12:13 am

    lol Should have read the whole thing…. He played 3rd LAST season.

  141. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 21st, 2008 at 12:14 am

    “And a few other sites say he’s a 3rd baseman. /shrug am I looking at a different guy?”

    yeh he was a 3B I guess the Giants rather he be a 1B to go through the system faster.

  142. CB April 21st, 2008 at 12:20 am

    Villalona is in the Giants system.

    He’s only 17 right now (will be 18 in august) so he’s very young.

    That said, he was considered a much, much better prospect than Montero.

    He was 6’3 and almost 200 lbs as a 16 year old as I remember.

    They were planning on him being at 3rd but now he’s playing 1st (not a good sign regarding his fielding ability – to give up on 3b this early is telling).

    The connection between him and Montero is a very interesting one and part of the reason why i keep tabs on him.

    Villalona is considered to have great physical tools – just great. And some have described him as one of the best power hitting prospects in the game.

    Right now however he isn’t considered to have a very advanced feeling for hitting, especially plate discipline.

    Montero probably doesn’t have the same physical tools.

    But even though Villalona is considerably younger, comparing what they are doing in low A just tells you how good Montero is and in particular, how advanced his approach at the plate is.

    Montero is at .356/.382/ .507).

    Is it fair to compare an 18 year old to a 17 year old? Probably not – but they are the two youngest players in A ball.

    Montero looks much more advanced than 9 months when you look at how Villalona is struggling.

    And for some other, perhaps, fairer comparisons.

    The third youngest player in low A is Freddy Galvis.

    Galvis’s line: .136/.256/.136 over 60 AB. No idea if he’s even a decent prospect.

    But a guy who is considered a very good prospect is the 4th youngest player in low A Engel Beltre (a major piece in the Gagne trade – most talented player to go to Texas).

    Beltre is hitting: .263/ .311/ .404.

    It’s just very impressive how good and how fundamentally sound Montero is at the plate. Really astonishing stuff when you compare him to the other guys his age in the Sally League.

  143. David April 21st, 2008 at 12:21 am

    Uuhh Eugie, as far as I’ve seen, the Yankees starting rotation is very broken at this moment. Two young pitchers is one thing, but you can’t have two young pitchers and a non-existent top 3. Right now the Yankees have 3 question marks in their rotation, one of whom is most likely finished. With a dominant top 3 (Wang and Pettitte are already as dominant as any two pitchers in baseball) you can easily live with two question marks. That’s why Joba needs to get into the rotation because he’s the completion of the top 3 they need. The great thing is Joba doesn’t need to be the #1 starter that he’s projected to be for a long time, nor a number two. He just needs to come in as the number 3 and do an adequate job. But from everything we’ve seen from him it seems he’ll be much more than adequate.

    And as for the bullpen… Other guys besides Joba and Mo need to step up no matter what or this Yankee team goes nowhere whether Joba is in the bullpen or a starter. But from what we’ve seen, Bruney and Olendorf have looked very promising.

  144. Rob NY April 21st, 2008 at 12:26 am

    Yeah, Montero is a guy whose line I check every day on MVN. We aren’t very far away from needing an everyday Catcher and while I know hoping Jesus stays there is a bit of an uncertainty I cant help but think he could be the next great hitting catcher. Romine is pretty exciting at C too.

    Any of you read much about Montero’s fielding? I remember hearing he is a decent catcher but not as good behind the plate as Cervelli.

  145. Brandon (supporting the new movement "Alex being Alex") April 21st, 2008 at 12:29 am

    “Moving Joba from the pen is the dumbest idea ever. Has anyone ever heard of the saying, “if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it”?”


    yup and it makes absolutely no sense in this case, because what your doing now is effecting the whole middle end of your BP w/ him not in the rotation, it’s not going to happen now, but midseason it is most likely that Joba will be moving into the rotation.

    Joba not in the rotation is effecting series matchups, how long can you go Beckett vs Moose or vs AJ Burnett. The biggest problem is how the staff is taxing the bullpen, Ohlendorf being forced into a long relief role which he has not been preped to do this season, Abaledejo same thing, Bruney had to pitch 2 innings in Tampa, Moose isn’t the only problem, the BP is a strength but you can’t keep reaching in it and putting it on Joba and Mo time after time. Sooner or later you need innings to save your BP.

  146. Pepitone April 21st, 2008 at 1:40 am

    When is somebody going to tell me the reason the Yankees won’t DFA Pavano.

    Sure they eat his salary, but he is taking up a roster spot and doing nothing anyway. Why have him around? Unless they are actually counting on him pitching this year??????????

    Is that possible? Somebody help me out here!

  147. OldYanksFan April 21st, 2008 at 8:41 am

    Giambi ABs, average of last 3 years:
    DH 613 .227 .380 .450 0.830
    PH 021 .286 .318 .476 0.794
    1B 488 .293 .453 .611 1.064

    Of course there are variables that effect how to interpret these numbers. However, when as a DH, he may have faced fewer LH pitchers, which would make these numbers even more convincing.

    Why is Giambi playing 1st? A number of reasons
    1) Yes, he hits better when he plays the field.
    2) Of all our 1B alternatives, none are 1Bman. They are ‘other’ position players who own a 1Bman glove. Shelly would be the closest to a 1Bman. Giambi has played the position his entire career.
    3) None of the alternatives are particularly good on D.
    4) While Giambi can’t jump and has little range, he is actualy good at scooping balls out of the dirt. We have already seen that this year, and he has saved numerous errors. Unfortunately, between ARod, Jetes abd Cano, we get A LOT of bad throws to first. The guy who can ‘scoop’ will save more runners then the guy who jumps higher/has more range.

    But the MAIN reason is: To have the DH spot open for Matsui (or whomever).
    But the REAL MAIN reason is: the Yankees NEED a ‘Good Giambi’ bat in this lineup.

    In 2003, Giambi was Giambi, and had a .939 OPS.
    In 2004, all hell broke loose. He lost weight (read: stopped using steroids), looked unhealthy, had an intestinal parasite, and a tumor, and God knows what else.
    In 264 ABs, at the age of 33, he posted a .721 OPS. It was obvious without steroids and getting older, he was done. People were hoping the Yankees could cut him, or sue him, or run him over with a truck. The one thing everyone KNEW was that he was done.
    In 2005, the next year, he posted a .975 OPS with 32 HRs.
    In 2006, he posted a .971 OPS with 37 HRs and 113 RBI.
    In 2007, In April, he had a .921 OPS and looked good. Then he developed the bone spur (very painful to even walk on) and that was his year. When he came back, Torre didn’t even play him 50% of the games, and was played in a very inconsistant manner, and never got going. His final OPS in 254 ABS was .790.

    So…. what might we expect from Jason in 2008?
    Well… we all SEE he is in good shape, and actually moving better then he has in years. He had a good ST, hitting with power and to all fields.

    Now, after FORTY SIX ABs, he has a .571 OPS…. which really suks except compared to Cano’s .434 OPS after 77 ABS. He is 2nd in BBs with 2 HRs and continues to have a great eye at the plate.

    So…. why is Giambi playing 1st?
    Because there is no reason why he can’t post a .850 – .900 OPS with 25+ HRs. He is healthy, in a contract year, has a OBP .180 higher then his BA and is motivated in this contract year.

    He is certainly not Giambi circa 2001 anymore.
    He is obviously not young anymore.
    But Shelly, at 28, (RH batter) has no history of success.
    Ensberg (RH batter) has played 1B less then a dozen games.
    Posada? Play both catchers in the same game? ARE YOU NUTS?

    The only question is: Is Giambi our BEST OPTION RIGHT NOW at 1st base?
    A month ago, certainly again RH pitching (80% of games), most here would have said yes.
    He has done TERRIBLY after 46 ABs. We are all disappointed.
    But you don’t just dump someone with his potential in April.
    This team NEEDS a ‘Good Giambi’.
    This team will do MUCH BETTER with a a ‘Good Giambi’.
    He HAS hit a lot of balls hard.
    He is not hitting dribblers or swinging at bat pitches.
    He IS out of sync, getting under a number of pitches.

    JD, Cano, IPK and Hughes have all sukked so far.
    Jeter has a .762 OPS.
    Posada has a .697 OPS.
    A LOT OF OUR GUYS are off to a slow start.

    Yes, Giambi’s age and circumstances make him the most likely in that group to fail.
    But it is FAR TOO EARLY to make that determination yet.

    I think Giambi will give us a .850+ OPS with 25 HRs if he plays regularly (against RH pitching).
    But I may be wrong. He might be done.
    But Girardi et al are not convinced yet.
    So I assume he will continue to play for at least 2-3 weeks before anyone hits the panic button.
    And I for one will root for him, and hope he gets his groove back because….

    This team NEEDS a ‘Good Giambi’.

  148. Don Vito A. Bellamo April 21st, 2008 at 9:50 am

    Wow…I actually asked for this pitching switch a few days ago….now all I need our some winning Lotto numbers and all will be fine ! ;-)

  149. bigjf April 21st, 2008 at 10:59 am

    I was gonna make the same point as Vinny did to open the comments, so I’ll just say that Mussina and Hughes back-to-back could be just as bad as Hughes and Kennedy. So the bottom line is that at least one of the two needs to learn how to throw strikes and get deep into games, otherwise they have to go back down and learn to pitch. Hopefully both can get it figured out. Even Mussina used to go deep into games when he was younger.

    Again I ask: what is Freddy Garcia up to these days?

  150. bigjf April 21st, 2008 at 11:07 am

    Hank’s in the paper today complaining about Joba being the setup man. “I had no say [when Joba was called up as a setup man] last year and I wouldn’t have allowed it,” says Hank. My question to you then, Hank, is why did you allow him to start this year in the bullpen?

    I’m personally of the belief that if and when Joba goes to the rotation, there needs to be a better setup man in his place than Hawkins or Farnsworth. I’m not convinced about Ohlendorf as a setup man yet. Closers are important throughout all of baseball for shutting down 1 inning of the game (we’ve been spoiled with Mariano because he can easily handle 2 or even 3 when needed in a pinch), but the setup man does the same thing, only it isn’t the last inning of the game. Hank says, “You don’t have a guy with a 100 MPH fastball and keep him a setup guy.” He might be right about that, but it sounds like he is belittling the setup role just a bit, whereas it really is gaining more and more importance as starters throughout all of baseball go shorter and shorter in games.

  151. G. Love April 21st, 2008 at 11:17 am


    The Yanks are getting reimbursed by insurance for some or all of Pavano’s salary.

    If they waive him or take him off the 40 man, they lose the insurance coverage and they actually have to pay him directly to do nothing for them.

    That’s the reason he’s on the 40 still and will remain on it for the remainder of the season.

  152. geO April 21st, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    putting Andy Pettitte in the middle of the rookies is a good thing.

    There records are something I didn’t expect.

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