Today in The Journal News
-
- April
- 23
Bobby Abreu’s slam and some gritty pitching from Chein-Ming Wang lifted the Yankees over the White Sox.
Joba Chamberlain is taking about the debate about his future in stride.
A-Rod was in Miami to see his new daughter. This notebook also has word on Jorge Posada’s return, Mike Mussina’s lack of concern over Hank’s remarks and a minor injury for the Big G.
Yanks-White Sox again tonight. Mussina against Javy Vazquez.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, April 23rd, 2008 at 3:43 am by Peter Abraham.
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dude go to sleep
Yankees lineup needs to wake up, comparing to Red Sox power.
I actually need sleep. Funny post.
Hope that the Yankees can give Mussina the same run support tonight as they gave Wang last night.
I’d like to see Moose throw more like Jamie Moyer tonight. And Cano should bat like Jay Buhner, and maybe it’s time Joba should try submarining like Quisenberry. Oh, and Girardi should maybe jump up and down and throw bases like Piniella. Yeah, that oughta do it…
If the Yankees don’t want to make Joba a starting pitcher, I’m sure there are other major league teams that would.
So all the Yankees have to do is win 8 more in a row to put us to the 19-10 that I so boldly predicted. ….a walk in the park….( Vito wakes up here )
Hello I am a senior student in Taiwan,Wang’s hometown.You know that Wang is becoming a big star here.I’m so glad that you are such a nice reporter who pays much attention on Wang!!I think if I have free time,I will visit your blog as often as I can.And also,I hoope I can improve my English ability through you articles.
Best wishes always
I hope we can get a decent performance out of Mussina tonight and the bats need to remain awake.
:S
Molly Welcome! There are quite a few people who frequent the blog from Taiwan!!
I think I stand correct from last night about A-Gone playing third.
I know he only played there becuase Jason hurt his finger (oh what a shock :shock:). I believe he had one ball hit his way (it could have been more but I was half asleep). He played it very well. Hopefully he will become our utility guy, and we will trade Wilson.
It’s amazing that even people like David Cone and Paul O’Neil don’t know what to say about the Joba situation. They seem to both agree Joba’s role in the future should be a starter, but not necessarily that it should be this year.
It amazes me that people think he can be a setup guy all year and somehow start next year. The point of being in the pen this year has been no secret, to limit his innings and make him a starter part way through the season, get him up to 150 innings or whatever it is this year. How exactly do you get him to 150 innings from the bullpen? You don’t.
Whether he ends up going down to AAA to stretch out to become a starter or they just start him in the majors for 3 innings one game, 5 the next (or whatever the appropriate progression), etc… He needs to be a starter at some point this year in order to be ready to start next year.
And by the way, he’ll be on an innings limit next year too.
…and Joba will be a starter when the coaches etc. say so. I’m not sure on how they will stretch him out to get ready for the new role.
Hiya, Molly!
Yes, reading Pete’s articles and participating in the comments here on the blog are great ways to improve your English skills, and we look forward to seeing you around.
We’re separated by thousands of miles of land and sea, but there are a lot of people here who are big Chien-Ming Wang fans. He’s a great Yankee.
Chris exactly! People say start him next year. Well you can’t have a starter going 100 innings. Since if he stays in the pen this year he’ll only be around 70 innings!! What ever they do this year greatly impacts next year. Every year we’ll run into the same problem!
Jennifer, I hope so to. Alberto was ranked the Yankees best defensive player in the minors (I think last year). He made a strong throw across the diamond and his glove is sick no matter where he plays. I don’t know how much third base he’s played, but no matter what, he’s a MUCH better fielder than Betemit. He’s also shown he is a capable bat. We’ll see how he can hit coming off the bench instead of playing everyday, but despite the rumors that Betemit’s bat is better, I haven’t seen much from him anyway…. Trade him and keep A-Gonz, no doubt about it.
RJPinstripes
I think it would be a waste to send him to the minors. After all he is only going to be allowed to throw 140 or so innings, why waste 10 plus of those innings in the minors? Have him piggy back someones starts, say Ian or Phil. I believe right out of the shoot they’d have him throw 3 innings, since he already has thrown 2 innings.
As for the in-game thread, it’s like Yogi said, “Nobody goes there anymore; it’s too crowded.”
Plus do we really need a bat off the bench? Who are you going to ph for? The only one is Morgan. So he is really useless off the bench as a ph. We need the glove more than the bat.
One thing we’ve seen from Girardi is that he’s not afraid to be creative, and one thing we’ve seen from Olendorf is that he can handle multiple innings. Both of these lead me to think they MAY (if we need to) end up stretching him out in the majors. I don’t know what the progression is, but he’s already thrown 2 innings a few times and probably will continue to… so let’s say as a starter he goes up one inning, game by game - 3, then 4, then 5, etc… What Paulie said last night might be feasible. Pitch him for his set number of innings each night, then Olendorf (or the starter he’s replacing) for the next 3 innings or so, then the rest of the bullpen as normal. OR, you bring up Rasner for the other have of the “starter’s” innings.
I would think the bigger issue would be whether or not Joba has command of his other two pitches well enough at that point. Will he need to stretch out to be a starter, or stretch out and fine tune his other pitches. That’s the part I would assume will dictate whether he prepares in AAA or the bigs. But I could also be underestimating the number of games it takes to stretch him out.
other *half, not have…
“We need the glove more than the bat.” I totally agree. I guess we’ll find out if the Yankees do too. Seems like they don’t, thus Betemit’s existence on the roster in the first place. The key might be for Gonzo to prove his bat is sufficient, capable. It seems like he did that, guys like Giambi and Girardi praised him. We’ll find out soon I guess.
I just wish Alberto was a base stealing threat too, that would probably seal the deal. If we can ever get to needing one less pitcher, Gardner could serve that purpose.
Wang is going to win a lotttttttt of games in his career. He is on a serious pace this year to win over 20 games. He’ll have his down moments, but if the offense can provide just a tiny bit for him in each game, he can get 20.
IF we can have more pitchers make it to the 7th inning, we’d be able to bring a fielder.
I think and hope the Yankees have soured enough on Wilson to try and trade him. I read on a message board that they might have something in the works with the Pirates for a lefty.
Wilsons defense is horrible and his bat isn’t great. Yeah can hit homeruns, but I’d rather have the d.
I disagree. What we have seen from Girardi so far, and I readily admit it can (and I hope) change, is the same bullpen usage as Torre. Its called stubborness.
Last night was a case in point.
If you are going to have a weapon like Joba Chamberlain in the bullpen, use him properly.
He should have started the 7th inning. No, if, ands, or butts about it.
You don’t put the game in the hands of Billy Traber and Brian Bruney. He’s done it 3 times this year (Boston, Tampa and last night) and its not worked all 3 times.
That’s in less than a month of baseball. Sorry but, that’s Torre-like in bullpen mismanagement.
If you have the chance to use Joba for 2, its really a simple formula. Start him in the 7th last night. If its a blowout game, which it became, and you want to use the other guys (really, the only time you can use them), then you do it in the 8th.
Instead, he compounds his error by having Joba pitch the 8th in a blowout game. In other words, he wasted an inning of work with a guy on an innings count this year.
If you are going to use him for 2, use him to start innings.
Its why I hate Joba being in the bullpen. Not only is it a waste of his talent, he’s not even being used in the right way to take advantage of his talents.
Also, Ohlendorf as the long man is a waste. It makes no sense to train a guy all spring to pitch one inning and now he is throwing 3.
I like Girardi and I am hoping he figures it out. But, after the first 21 games this year, his bullpen management leaves a LOT to be desired.
Not a pretty win last night but I’ll take it.
A couple of the post game comments I heard and read bothered me a little. People mentioned “without Alex” as if they had to step up their performance to compensate for Alex being out.
I’d like to believe that this team isn’t sitting around waiting for someone else to get it done. Alex being off for a few days may be a blessing in disguise if it makes a few players realize they need to be more active participants in this teams success no matter who else is in the line-up.
He can hit homeruns when he doesn’t strike out…. I’d be just as happy with a trade as a DFA. He doesn’t cost much and if we get anything for the MLB roster, we’ll need a spot for that player…
Maybe we’ll unload Farnsworth too.
If Pittsburgh is in a dealing mode for Betemit as rumored, expand the deal by including Farnsworth and offer to pay half of his remaining 2008 contract.
Joba worked in his curve last night. As he gets more innings in a row, he will get the chance to throw the other pitches more.
O’Neill was still pining for his number to be retired last night. While on the field he was good to have on the team, I have no respect for someone who thinks that sub- HOF performance throughout their careers deserve to have their number retired. He has had that subject brought up a couple of times now, and still he comes off plugging for retiring his number. Sorry. That is supposed to be an honor that seeks the player, not the player that seeks the honor.
Also, is Wang still having fingernail problems and wearing a fake nail? Did the damage of his nail so so far as to destroy the natural one? Or was Kay talking out his rear again?
SJ, I don’t disagree with you about his bullpen usage. He looked flat out angry last night after those walks, maybe his patience is finally gone and that stubborness you mentioned will be gone too.
I’m talking more about the game he held IPK because of the rain. Didn’t necessarily work out how he hoped, but the game probably should have been delayed and everyone would have thought he was a genious. It was creative and he showed he wasn’t afraid to take a risk once in a while (this one actually might have been a wise risk, unlike the Farnsworth loyalty…….).
Any idea how many games it would take, generally, to stretch Joba out BACK to being a starter (I hate it when all these idiots in the media act like they want to MAKE him a starter, as if he hasn’t always been a starter).
Has there been any rumor/mention of who would be included in a deal from Pittsburgh? Are we still after Marte?
I believe Atlanta needs a closer or pen help. Why not ship him there? Not sure what kind of talent they have, but I’m sure we can find a fb there.
If the Yankees won’t let Joba be a starter, I’m sure there are other teams who would. Let Cashman trade him if he won’t start him.
Does it just seem odd to me because we haven’t seen relievers throwing 2 innings so often the last few years, or is Girardi pushing it with all these two inning appearances by, everybody……..
And, back to Olendorf, I’m not saying I want to see him in a 3 inning role permanently. But he’s shown he can do the job and could be key in stretching Joba out in the bigs if that becomes necessary. Ultimately, I’d think he’ll own the 8th when Joba joins the rotation.
“One thing we’ve seen from Girardi is that he’s not afraid to be creative, and one thing we’ve seen from Olendorf is that he can handle multiple innings. Both of these lead me to think they MAY (if we need to) end up stretching him out in the majors. I don’t know what the progression is, but he’s already thrown 2 innings a few times and probably will continue to… so let’s say as a starter he goes up one inning, game by game - 3, then 4, then 5, etc… What Paulie said last night might be feasible. Pitch him for his set number of innings each night, then Olendorf (or the starter he’s replacing) for the next 3 innings or so, then the rest of the bullpen as normal. OR, you bring up Rasner for the other have of the “starter’s” innings.”
“Until they get him in that role criticizing what he’s done in long relief is off the mark.”
Who’s criticizing Olendorf? I said he’s done a great job and shown he can handle 3 innings. I’ve also agreed with SJ that he should not be throwing 3 innings permanently.
a point- Take it for what it is worth, but Joe was asked about it and said no he’s not having a problem. Not sure that I beleive him though.
Wang gutted out a win last night when he didn’t his good stuff. Good to see.
Clutch home run by Abreu - particularly impressive as it was opposite field.
The game really did take a strange turn however at the end.
I like Girardi, thought he was the right guy for the job and am confident he’s going to do a good job for years.
That said what he’s doing with this bull pen right now makes no sense.
Joba has an innings cap of 140. You burn an inning now - that’s it - you’re going to have one less inning in September.
We keep hearing how Girardi is spreading around innings amongst all the bull pen arms.
He did that for the first few games but clearly not last night.
Why is Joba still in the game up 5 runs in the 8th. The yankees probability of losing that game at that point was miniscule. They had a 99% chance of winning that game even with a below average pitcher brought into the game.
Why waste Joba there?
Girardi said all winter that he was confident that he could remake Kyle Farnsworth because he caught him in the past. He also says that Kyle would be fine throwing multiple innings.
If you can’t bring Farnsworth out in the 8th to pitch the 8th and 9nth with a five run lead how is this a “new” Kyle Farnsworth?
Or if you don’t use Hawkins to throw the 8th up 5 doesn’t that mean, in fact, Girardi doesn’t have ANY trust in him.
If you have relief pitchers that the manager doesn’t trust to pitch 2 innings up 5 runs then why are they on the roster?
And at the same time Ross Ohlendorf is being wasted as a long man when there’s little doubt he could be a much better short man than farnsworth or Hawkins.
Girardi is on his way to burning out ohlendorf’s arm. 20 games into the season Ohlendorf has thrown 14 innings!
How is sticking with Brian Bruney and Kyle Farnsworth late in the game while using Ohlendorf as a long man “creative” or innovative or whatever adjective you want to use?
This is just the same old same old.
Sine Joba has come back from his father’s illness Girardi has called on him to pitche in 3 of the 4 games. He didn’t wind up throwing in the Baltimore game.
But when you’re using Joba up 5 in the 8th - then Joba’s becoming your security blanket out of the pen.
And Ohlendorf will once again be used as a long man tonight or tomorrow.
How about Farnsworth getting DFA and calling up Rasner.
“Who’s criticizing Olendorf? I said he’s done a great job and shown he can handle 3 innings. I’ve also agreed with SJ that he should not be throwing 3 innings permanently.”
who sid your criticizing him ? that’s a quote CB had, just to get that maybe Ohlendorfh can be a SP notion out of your head. You need to remember he went into the bullpen and changed his whole approach to throwing, he now throws w/ maximum effort and to ask him to do that as a SP is ridiculous.
Wang was looking at his finger a good deal last night. I wonder, though, if it’s his fingernail or if it was a hot spot. I would have thought that his fingernail had plenty of time to heal over the off season.
SJ
Girardi is only trying to find out what he has here. Why not try in April on the road in the middle of a long trip, instead of late August in the middle of a pennant race?
Ohlendorf was a starter in the Arizona system, correct? It is probably OK to see how he handles the long man role while they try to see if Bruney and LaTroy can handle 7 and 8. If they cannot, then we have an issue, and perhaps Joba stays put longer.
Packaging Betemit and Farnsworth to the Pirates is not a bad idea. For who, however?
“Ohlendorf was a starter in the Arizona system, correct? It is probably OK to see how he handles the long man role”
WRONG when Ohlendorf was a SP early last season he failed repeating his mechanics so much in that role that Nardi and Mark Newman decided it was best in his future interest that he’d go into the bullpen in the minors, Ohlendorf changed his whole approach to throwing, he now throws w/ maximum effort and to ask him to do that as a SP is plain stupid.
Chris,
It all depends on when they decide to stretch him out.
The Dodgers were able to stretch out Billingsley while he was on the major league roster last year.
I’m guessing that’s probably the preferred method for the Yankees. How long? At least 2-3 weeks, IMO.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Girardi as a manager. I do think though, his so called bullpen “management”, at least to date, has not been an upgrade from Torre.
At least Torre had the good sense not to put Bruney in games that were still in doubt. Girardi is still unable to comprehend that fact.
Last night was the PERFECT way to use Kyle Farnsworth. One inning, blowout game, you know he will be awful, and you know you don’t have to pitch him today. Because, as we all know, he can’t pitch back to back days.
Unfortunately, they had to get Rivera up and that was another mistake. Just warm up Hawkins. It was still a 4 run lead.
Some of these issues aren’t on the Girardi. The roster is a mess right now. They are carrying 3 catchers, 0 first basemen, and half the bullpen is useless.
Personally, I think the the top 3 problems for the Yankees, in order, are:
1. Hughes and Kennedy. Gotta get more than 3 innings a start out of both guys. Young or not, 3 ain’t enough and it messes up their entire week in terms of pitching. If no improvement is shown this time around, they have to send them to AAA. Those kind of starts can’t last much longer.
2. They need a first baseman. They don’t need an all star. They need somebody who can catch and throw the baseball. Its the New York Yankees. I have a hard time believing they can’t find a first baseman. Its time they stop having catchers, DH’s, 3B, SS, playing first base. Watching Jason Giambi play, or try to play, first base is an embarrassment. If I was Girardi, I would be on Cashman’s butt every single day until he gets him a first baseman.
That can’t last another week, let alone a season.
3. The roster. Its a mess. They need to fix it. Yes, the injuries have caused the mess within the roster. Still needs to be fixed ASAP. They need 2 bullpen arms, a first basemen and a long guy/starter. You can find the bullpen arms and the long guy/starter in AAA. They are going to have to go outside the organization to find a first baseman.
Shelley Duncan is trying to play first base. That’s admirable. But, they need a REAL first baseman. One is in Pittsburgh. Just go get him and be done with it.
The bullpen? If you have a lefty specialist, and he can’t get lefties out, he’s useless to your staff. Traber can’t lefties out in the regular season. Just call up Albie or Ramirez, two guys whose stuff can get lefties out but can also pitch to righties, and move on. It was a nice experiment. However, we see now the guy can’t get lefties out. No need to waste another month, like they did with Mike Myers last year, to make a move.
You look at this team and you have a hard time understanding how Giambi, Traber, Bruney, Farnsworth, and 2 kid pitchers all last an entire season in the Bronx. It hamstrings them in so many ways, its not funny.
Yes, economics does play a role in some guys still being on the team. That said, unlike other years, these issues can be fixed from within.
Just a matter of when the Yankees decide to take action. Hopefully, its sooner rather than later.
Brandon has it right. Ollie was a starter in the Arizona system and in his first half season in the Yankees system.
Mark Newman turned him into a short inning reliever and he thrived.
You don’t try out a guy with his stuff as a long reliever. Its a waste of his talent.
It sounds stupid but, they are better off using Joba as long guy. At least you are stretching him out while using him in a misplaced role. With Ollie, you are hurting him and the team using him in this misplaced role.
Plus, Ollie spent the entire off-season and spring training as a short reliever. It makes no sense to try him as the long guy after spending the last 6 months training him for short inning work.
You just go down to Scranton and get a long guy. It probably should be Rasner.
That’s my beef with the Yankees right now. Instead of finding direct solutions to their problems, they are making things worse for themselves with these failed, in season experiments.
Ollie as the long guy, Joba in the pen and not being used properly, Posada at first, Gonazalez at third, etc.
It gets to the point where you ask, “how many guys are they going to play out of position each night”? There is no bonus prize for doing this on a nightly basis.
As for the in-game thread, it’s like Yogi said, “Nobody goes there anymore; it’s too crowded.”
murphydog-
just read the ones you want. that’s what i do. for instance, when sj gets disgusted with the poor play he switches to the yankee minor league games and gives updates on what’s going on in charleston etc which keeps me up to speed with what’s going on in the yankee farm system. do you know which charleston player is ripping the cover off the ball? if you were on the blog last night you would.
it’s not a waste,you just have to pick your spots and filter out the rest.
Sj you panic way too easily. Give it more time before you pass judgement.
There seems to be a pattern with the Sox and the Yankees that I would like to hear other people like CB’s and SJ44″s perspective on.
For a number of years now the Sox start out the season hot and the Yankees start out a bit slower.
This pattern happens even with different players and now with a different manager for the Yankees.
However, as the season progresses the Yankees pick up the pace and more often than not overtake the Sox in the second half of the season.
Why has this pattern established itself and seems to be repeating itself now even when Torre is gone?
“Sj you panic way too easily. Give it more time before you pass judgement.”
remember this when Ohlendorf burns out his arm
as for Gonzo SJ my only problem w/ his use is the lack of use because the excess of inf full-time players. Gonzo can play 3B, 2B and SS but keeping him on the bench is going to screw around w/ his progress as a prospect. I wouldn’t be surprised if he forgot how to hit and if this is the case send him to Scranton pick up his value while having a journeyman like Ransom or Green play back up
O’Neill spoke of the Hawkins thing again last night. I’ve never heard a bigger ego. He basically thanked Jeter and Mo and the a*hole fans for telling/booing Hawkins to change his number. What a sad loser.
“How is sticking with Brian Bruney and Kyle Farnsworth late in the game while using Ohlendorf as a long man “creative” or innovative or whatever adjective you want to use?”
Again, I was referring to the IPK thing during the game that should have had a rain delay… not his bullpen management. I’ve already agreed his bullpen mgt is questionable, at best.
Brandon, I never said Olendorf should be a starter. I said quite the opposite that he should be the setup man.
“I never said Olendorf should be a starter. I said quite the opposite that he should be the setup man.”
my mistake
I think anybody’s bullpen management would begin to look suspect if every night the bullpen has to pitch nearly 3 2/3IP’s.
The biggest problem with the bullpen is that the starters aren’t giving enough length in the games.
I don’t care who the manager is if the bullpen is pitching nearly 40% of games every night there’s only so much juggling you can do.
Brandon, no problem.. I was saying more that he could fill the innings after Joba’s starts for the 2 or 3 weeks it takes to stretch him out, assuming it’s only those 2 or 3 weeks. Though, I would think Rasner (or the starter Joba would be replacing depending on the situation) would be a more logical choice, as Oledorf takes over the setup role.
As a Yankees fan, I prefer to remember Paulie as the true World Champion that he was, not as a bitter, aging man clinging to past star-not-superstar glory, if indeed that’s what is now happening.
I hate to go into hypotheticals, but can you imagine fan reaction if Farnsworth wore 21? But A.J. Pierzynski is the next Babe Ruth, right?
“I think anybody’s bullpen management would begin to look suspect if every night the bullpen has to pitch nearly 3 2/3IP’s.”
This is a very good point. I don’t necessarily get why Rasner isn’t on the team as the long reliever. Ross has been forced into that role simply (I’m assuming) because he can handle it and because we’ve had too many 2 or 3 inning starts. The sooner we dump the “project Farnsworth,” the sooner we can replace him with a long reliever and give Ross the late innings with Joba to get the ball to Mo.
I am not panicking at all. Just talkin’ baseball, that’s all.
In terms of “passing judgment”, do we really need to see more of what Farnsworth, Bruney and Giambi can do before passing judgment?
Does anybody really believe Farnsworth and Bruney are all of a sudden going to be dependable? Giambi will become an adequate first baseman?
All I’m saying is, they waited a long time last year before making moves. They ended up losing the division by 2 games.
Think about it. Two games away from winning the division and playing a beat up Angels team in the ALDS. Two games.
Now, ‘ya think if they made moves quicker, they would have made up those two games? I do.
All I am saying is, in looking objectively at the roster right now, I don’t see how in the world they can count on certain guys.
The issue then is, how long to do you stay with them?
As I said, I’m well aware of the economics re: certain guys places on the roster. I’m also aware that in the AL this year, roster space is like gold.
You can’t carry a team that features over 20% of the players who can’t be put in games when they are in question. That’s where the Yankees are right now.
Hopefully, it changes.
Panic? No. Critical review on what I see? That’s all I’m doing.
I thought people were overreacting to Paulie’s reaction the first time Kay asked him about it. But I have to admit, last night he did seem glad the fans basically forced the number change. There was no high road. Sad.
sj and cb-
you two with your carpet bombing of the blog with your insistence that joba should be a starter sooner than later caused me to do a 180 degree turn with joba. i was fine with him in the pen this year. then i had my epiphany as manny’s home run off mussina reached it’s apex on the way to who knows where.
then hank spouts off about joba , cashman says the original plan of a mid summer switch is still written in stone because his arm has to be protected by keeping his innings down. and everyone’s on board in the organization.
great. ok. then last night i watch joba throw an inning they need to get out of the bases loaded jam. then the yankees get a big lead where they don’t need joba. i’m wondering who is going to come in the game, and then who is it but joba for the 8th?
huh? didn’t cashman say everyone was on board for saving the golden child’s arm. was that an inning used up that the yankees now don’t get in the playoffs? i don’t see a overall plan with all levels of the yankees on board.
someone forgot to tell girardi.
“I think anybody’s bullpen management would begin to look suspect if every night the bullpen has to pitch nearly 3 2/3IP’s.”
This is true and was a big reason the pen got taxed last year. This factor does account for why Ohlendorf has thrown so many innings as the long man (still risk burning out his arm but this is clearly why that’s happenning).
But that factor also has nothing to do with keeping Joba in the game 5 runs up in the 8th after Wang has pitched 6 innings.
Nor does it explain the belief that this year under this manager Kyle Farnsworth and Brian Bruney are going to suddently reinvent themselves as reliable late inning relievers who are going to consistently throw strikes.
I was pretty surprised to see Joba in the 8th as well. Maybe they thought he needed the work to get sharp after the week off? No idea, but I don’t think he should have been back out there with a big lead. As people have said, games can be saved in the 7th inning. Joba did that, Johnny opened the game up, so sit Joba back down.
The O’Neill stuff is embarrassing. For him and the team. It really is. At this point, it should be put to bed.
For folks not caught up in fandom, Paul O’Neill showed his true colors in this thing. Now, you just turn the page.
If I was the Yankees, the first player I acquire from this point forward, gets #21. That will send a message as to just how disappointed they must be in his attitude during this entire nonsensical episode.
Ray,
Its hard to put a finger on it. The Yankees are an older team and that has a part in it.
I also think the past 3 years, the Yankees have had a lot of nagging injuries in the first month+ of a season. That forces some guys into playing time earlier than expected and it shows.
Its one of those crazy things though that in large part in unexplainable.
I would have no problem with releasing Giambi; however, besides Hank/Hal signing off on the money, Cash Joe would have to be pretty certain that he’s really shot. Otherwise, Jason could potentially wind up somewhere like Toronto and come back to haunt us, should he get it going.
Moving Farnsy and Bruney is easier. Maybe a part of a prospective Minky deal with Pitt.
agreed, ray and chris. the team needs length from their starters, which really only equates to 6 solid innings a game… you wouldnt think thatd be too hard to ask, but apparently it is.
and Farnsworth needs to go. there are teams around the league in desperate need for bullpen arms, and for these teams, Farnsworth is actually an upgrade. we have the parts to replace him with; eat some of the salary and be doen with this already.
and i’m on the same boat as SJ with Giambi. i would prefer to have a ture 1B over another positional player who is just trying to play 1B. i dont see how he’s of any use to this team anymore. i dont have a particular replacement, but Mientkiewicz isnt a bad player. even if he’ll hit you .250, he can handle the bat for bunts and hit and runs at the bottom of the order, and he’s a huge upgrade defensively.
how about Scott Hatteberg? with Joey Votto taking over in Cincy, he seems like a veteran 1B who is a younger/healthier version of what we were expecting Giambi to start the season; adequate defense, who can bring his his career OBP and LH swing to the short porch at the stadium.
i’m now waiting for the first, “dude, wtf are you talking about?! Scott Hatteberg sucks!”
I wonder if Girardi will end having Joba rules of his own.
Let’s face it, the bullpen that the Yankees have isn’t exactly stocked with talent. Due to that, both Torre and Girardi have limited choices for who they can go to if a game is on the line.
Where is Patterson? Where is Rasner? What about Albaladejo? They can’t be any worse that what they have up. Give them the chance to blow games. Traber isn’t getting out lefties? Then say good bye.
Bruney had me ready to at least open up to the idea that he changed things, got more aggressive, threw more strikes and mixed in some pitches… but then he proves that he can’t do so consistently.
I never played baseball, but played several sports all year long from the time I was 5 all through high school. One thing I don’t understand about baseball is why these guys need so much damn therapy. When I played football and my coach told me to do something differently to get better results, I did it, and I got better. Why are pitchers such head cases so often???
Morning all!
In terms of the Yankees and Sox starting slow and hot, respectively, I have to say it probably has more to do with the pitchers and hitters on each team than anything else, and the type of weather they play in.
I mean, when is the last time the Yankees opened on the West Coast? 2005? 2006?
Anyway it doesn’t matter so much how the Yankees start (as long as they’re not 14 games out on Memorial Day), as it does how they finish.
Randy,
When I saw Joba come out for the 8th, after not starting the 7th, my first thought was, “Why is he in the bullpen at all”?
If you aren’t going to use him as the weapon you say he is (starters for 6, Joba for 2, Mo for 1), then send him to Scranton and let him get his 140 innings as a starter in AAA.
It makes no sense to use him like they did last night.
I know why Girardi brought him out in the 8th. PANIC!!!!lol
He just has to learn how to use his weapons better.
I said it last night in the game thread. Joba starts the 7th. I didn’t even think it was a question. Clearly, I was wrong.
That said, all last night did for me was galvanize how much this kid needs to be in the rotation.
The conundrum the Yankees have right now is, because of the current ineffectiveness of Moose, Hughes and Kennedy, they need to win all of Wang’s and Pettitte’s starts. Wholly unfair to those two guys but, that’s the way its shaking out right now. Meaning, you gotta do what it takes to make sure those 2 games are in the win column.
If it means Joba for 2, so be it. It beats the alternative.
ray,
you raised a very good question about why the yankees have consistently gotten off to a slow start despite changes in players and now management.
I can’t say I really have a single answer as I think it’s a complicated issue, one that doesn’t have a single answer. Also, it’s probably caused by different things each year.
Last year it was almost all related to injuries.
This year it’s got a lot to do with the young pitchers.
But that’s only part of the story because they are not hitting yet again.
I don’t have the time right now to answer your question as I’d like to. A few thoughts:
But in general they are always an older team and one that is trying to integrate major new pieces at the beginning of every year.
This year they are trying to count on Giambi as a key piece and he’s been terrible both in the field and at the plate.
I don’t think Damon is done, but his skills are clearly in decline.
Cano is just a mystery. He may be a guy who really needs warm weather over an extended period of time to get going.
But overall the factor that concerns me is that this offense, as powerful as it is, can start playing tight. They start pressing and things get worse.
I think that the level of expectations for them (world series or the season is meaningless) are so high and have been so high for so long that the team as a whole tends to press.
I think they do this at the beginning of the year
TurnTwo,
Another good alternative. Scott is also a guy who takes a lot of pitches and is a very good defensive first baseman.
It shouldn’t be tough to find a guy like that and it won’t cost an arm and a leg to get him.
They just can’t keep trotting Giambi out there to play first base. At some point, it stops being his fault and it starts being the Yankees fault for putting him in a position to fail on a nightly basis.
On first base… Seriously, why was Mienky’s hitting not sufficient before he got hurt last year? The guy was hitting like .280 and had some clutch hits. If some stat-head wants to look into how many innings didn’t end because of a 1B bad throw or missed ball, and how many runs things like that have cost us this year, I can gaurantee you it’s more than Giambi and Co over at 1B have brought in so far.
I’m not sure if I’m ready to give up on Giambi’s bat, yet…, but I never liked him at 1B from the time we signed him and quietly pushed Tino out the door.
“In terms of “passing judgment”, do we really need to see more of what Farnsworth, Bruney and Giambi can do before passing judgment?”
Farnsworth no, Bruney and Giambi yes.
“Does anybody really believe Farnsworth and Bruney are all of a sudden going to be dependable?”
Bruney, yep
“Giambi will become an adequate first baseman?”
He has so far this year
“The issue then is, how long to do you stay with them?”
At least mid-may as you yourself have said with regards to other players.
The issue with Ohlendorf is all about numbers. You have 7 spots for your bullpen which right now are covered by Rivera, Chamberlain, Farnsworth, Hawkins, Bruney, Traber, Ohlendorf. Rivera is locked in obviously, Chamberlain isn’t going anywhere until June at the earliest. Farnsworth and Hawkins aren’t going anywhere until much closer to the trade deadline and their fate rests in Cashman’s hands not Girardi. That leaves Bruney, Traber and Ohlendorf as possibly being moved. Girardi has taken a liking to Bruney and for the most part he’s pitched well. Traber hasn’t really been given much of a chance but in the limited action he has seen, he’s been just ok. I don’t see any point in getting rid of him yet, get him some more innings and see. That leaves Ohlendorf whom everyone wants as a setup man.
There is no room for a long reliever unless Ohlendorf is sent down or Girardi decides he doesn’t like Bruney anymore. If Ohlendorf is sent down for a long reliever that defeats the purpose of bringing up the long reliever in the first place. You can’t tell me the Yankees are going to get rid of Hawkins or Farnsworth, Cashman has stuck with Kyle for this long he isn’t going to drop him now.
So your choices are: keep Ohlendorf with New York as a mop-up/long reliever or send him down for Rasner. I highly doubt Ross will damage his arm in his current role and I’d rather have him than Rasner. Maybe Cashman will finally admit his mistake and cut Farnsworth, it would help the team and offer a lot more flexibility.
This team is a lot better off than many make it seem.
1- Hughes will have a bounceback performance this week, because he has to. He’s worlds better than Kennedy and you have to know the kid is working his butt off.
2- Ohlendorf has earned the 7th inning role for the first half and hopefully will continue to earn the 8th inning role for when Joba moves to the rotation.
3- We do need a real first baseman. I’m all for trading for one, even if it means giving up some decent talent. Defense is my main concern at 1B. Anything offensively would be better than the G-man right now.
4- Rasner needs to be on this team as the long reliever (or starter). His role will be determined by how well Moose and Ian pitch in the coming weeks, but he needs to be here. Traber has no function, imho. I get it, lefties do a good job of getting lefties out. But to be honest, I don’t remember Mike Myers doing anything that we needed him to do as far as getting lefties out. He did, though, throw some good quality innings throughtout the year.
If Traber can’t throw an inning or two to both righties and lefties, I want him gone. Relievers need to be able to pitch to everyone. Why is he stopping Rasner from being on the team? We can’t send down Farnsworth cause then we’d be admitting he sucks. That’s no way to jack up his trade value.
Seriously, at the very least… Is Ensberg an upgrade over Mienky? Really….???
“1- Hughes will have a bounceback performance this week, because he has to. He’s worlds better than Kennedy and you have to know the kid is working his butt off.”
I think so too. I didn’t get to watch Friday’s game, but didn’t Hughes pitch much better than his previous two starts? Not as good as he was vs Toronto, but much better than the other two starts?
Both he and IPK will be better. I think sooner than later. I was more confident in that before IPK’s last start though. He got much better 2 starts ago, then regressed. Maybe Jorge will help him, give him a kick in the butt next time out.
Ensberg has hit near 40 HRs in a year. Mienky, as far as I know, hasn’t.
“There is no room for a long reliever unless Ohlendorf is sent down or Girardi decides he doesn’t like Bruney anymore. ”
Then send down Bruney. What is his magical strangle hold on this franchise?
Bruney has an option he can be sent to the minors.
And one other thing on Ohlendorf - he is not a long reliever.
So if you are going to force a short man to become a long man Girardi should put Hawkins in that role.
It’s clear he doesn’t trust Hawkins to throw high leverage innings. Use him in another way.
Ohlendorf has thrown 14 innings in 20 games. That is a ridiculous work load. And Ohlendorf hasn’t gotten enough rest between being used.
If Ohlendor keeps throwing this many innings as a long man he won’t be effective later on as a short man.
If you are going to use a reliever out of role do that with Hawkins.
“Wang (4-0) worked six innings, allowing 10 hits and three runs, to become the first Yankees starter to win his first four decisions since Kevin Brown won his first five in 2004.”
-http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24264983/
Well, thanks for bringing that up..
Uh, guys. You’re pining for Minky & Rasner.
At this rate, Olendorf will throw 113.4 innings this year. Is that too much for a reliever? (KIDDING).
Giambi has not played an adequate first base Patrick. Not even close.
He can’t throw and can barely catch routine groundballs.
I know he has a lot of fans in here but, let’s be honest, he’s been awful this season. There is no way you can play him 140+ games at first base and be a successful team.
In fact, I predict it won’t happen. Sooner rather than later, they will get a first baseman and it won’t be Giambi.
Bruney has had 3 games this year in which he has come in with inherited runners on base and the game in question. In other words, in games where a relief pitcher earns his chops. In Boston, in Tampa and last night. He has failed all 3 times.
A 100% failure rate in non-soft landing games. That’s in less than one month of play this season. How is that an improvement from what we have seen in the past with Bruney?
He is what he is. Like Farnsworth, a guy who can only be used in blowout games.
When you fail 3 times in a month as a relief pitcher, and have his history of failure to boot, you are undependable. At least in my book.
Agreed on Ollie re: the numbers crunch factoring into his role. My point is, change the numbers crunch.
A kid with his stuff can’t pitch in the longman role. Its a waste.
Its a numbers issue. So, alleviate the numbers by moving guys out who can’t do the job. Especially when it doing so, it improves the team and gives it more flexibility.
“Uh, guys. You’re pining for Minky & Rasner.”
LOL, sad, but true… We shouldn’t be “pining” for these guys, they should be very quietly doing their jobs on the team. They’re role players that we should notice once in a while, not be desperate to have on the roster.
I’ve been mostly out of the loop for the past week due to being unbelievably swamped with work issues.
What’s the Betemit/Pittsburgh rumor?
“A 100% failure rate in non-soft landing games.”
Speaks to his mental make-up. When the pressure’s on, he reverts back to bad habbits instead of attacking the zone. How can two guys who throw so hard be such sissies?
“Then send down Bruney. What is his magical strangle hold on this franchise?”
Obviously Girardi likes him. I lean towards agreeing that Bruney will be a useful part of this team.
“And one other thing on Ohlendorf - he is not a long reliever.”
I hate categorizing pitchers into roles. He was a starter last year in the minors, then a set-up man in the minors, then a 5th-6th inning reliever in the majors and now his only role is as a long reliever so yes he is a long reliever. I hope that will change because he has exciting stuff but as the team is set up now he IS a long reliever.
“Ohlendorf has thrown 14 innings in 20 games. That is a ridiculous work load. And Ohlendorf hasn’t gotten enough rest between being used.
If Ohlendor keeps throwing this many innings as a long man he won’t be effective later on as a short man.”
It’s possible but I think he can handle it for now. Unfortunately it’s not management or Girardi’s fault that his workload has been excessive; that blame lies at Hughes and Kennedy’s feet. If you have 3 starters that can’t even get out of the 5th inning the bullpen is going to be taxed, it’s just the way it goes.
The only way Ohlendorf’s role changes is if Bruney pitches himself out of a set-up role, if Cashman sucks it up and releases Farnsworth or if they send him back to AAA.
“Giambi has not played an adequate first base Patrick. Not even close.
He can’t throw and can barely catch routine groundballs.
I know he has a lot of fans in here but, let’s be honest, he’s been awful this season. There is no way you can play him 140+ games at first base and be a successful team.”
We are going to disagree on this one. Giambi has looked better than I’ve ever seen him at first which isn’t saying much but he isn’t as horrendous as you are making him out to be. His hitting will come around as we saw last night. If he is still hitting poorly come May 15 I’d be all for getting rid of him. 1B is a low priority when it comes to defense anyways, I’d bite the bullet on his occasional screwup if he can start hitting.
Here is what I don’t get. The Yankees need a long man. They have a long man in Scranton (Rasner) yet, they won’t call him up.
He has pitched better than just about anybody not named Chamberlain or Rivera in the Yankees bullpen so far this season. Why waste his good outings in AAA when you have a need with the big club?
Earlier in the spring, Pete asked Girardi a question re: Scott Patterson. He asked him whether or not Patterson can be used as a long man in NY. Very good question and, IIRC, it was a topic for discussion in the blog that day.
Girardi said, “No”, because you have to train for that role and the Yankees are training Patterson for short inning work.
In other words, they are training Patterson the same way they trained Ohlendorf this spring. For short inning work.
Which again raises the question, why is Ohlendorf the longman right now since he hasn’t trained for it?
Its just inconsistent with what they are saying they do with their pitchers.
First base isn’t a low priority item when it comes to defense.
We have been hearing that for years from the Yankees. Mainly because, the guy they have out there can’t play the position. Yet, we can go back and look at big games (playoff, WS games, important regular season games) that have been lost by this franchise the last several years because of poor defensive play at first base.
He just can’t play the position. His offense isn’t showing any signs of breaking out. He hit a solo HR last night? Big deal. The rest of his AB’s were awful.
Chad Moeller, a guy hitting .133 in Scranton, had more hits in one week, than the starting first baseman of the NY Yankees has had all season. That says it all.
One last point on this issue. Giambi would have to produce at his 2001-2002 levels to remotely justify what he costs you defensively at this point in his career. Scary thing is, he was much better defensively in those years than he is today.
SJ, two possible answers to your question. First, perhaps Ohlendorf doesn’t need training because he was a starter as early as last season. Second, it’s a tradeoff. The Yankees would rather force Ohlendorf into a long relief role rather than cut Farnsworth or demote Bruney.
If the plan is to move Joba to the rotation at some point mid-season, then Girardi needs to find out who can fill that role. If you think Joba should be a starter, then you should understand Girardi’s bullpen usage.
Starting with Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS, the Yankees are 4-13 over their last 17 playoff games. I decided to take a look at these games and see how many additional games the Yankees could have won had they had Joba setting up for Mo. The Yankees have lost 3 of the 13 games when they were leading after 7 innings. One was blown in the 9th inning (2004 Game 4), so this would have been a loss anyway, and another was blown in the 8th inning, by Joba. The other one, Tom Gordon allowed 2 runs in the 8th inning (2004, Game 5). So, over the past 4 years, had Joba been in the bullpen, the Yankees could have won one extra postseason game. I think most people would agree that Joba will be a #3 starter at worst, and I’d have to assume that he could have picked up at least one win as a #3 starter. Additionally, through the first 7 innings of these games, the Yankees have been outscored 80 - 56, or by almost a run and a half per game. In the games they lost, they were outscored 70 - 34 through the first 7 innings, or more than 2 runs per game. It’s pretty clear that even if the Yankees had had a lights-out setup man in the bullpen the last 4 years, it wouldn’t have made any difference…. aside from the game Gordon blew =\.
“First base isn’t a low priority item when it comes to defense.”
Then why is the worst defender on every team a first basemen? (in most cases)
“He just can’t play the position. His offense isn’t showing any signs of breaking out. He hit a solo HR last night? Big deal. The rest of his AB’s were awful.”
Give it more time, it’s only 4/23
“Chad Moeller, a guy hitting .133 in Scranton, had more hits in one week, than the starting first baseman of the NY Yankees has had all season. That says it all.”
Not really, the only thing that says is a guy got hot for a week. SAMPLE SIZE!
“One last point on this issue. Giambi would have to produce at his 2001-2002 levels to remotely justify what he costs you defensively at this point in his career. Scary thing is, he was much better defensively in those years than he is today.”
Do you have statistics to back that up? Runs saved on defense vs how much he produces on offense? I’m sure CB has those stats, I simply don’t have time to go lookign for them.
“Giambi has looked better than I’ve ever seen him at first which isn’t saying much but he isn’t as horrendous as you are making him out to be.”
Giambi has a .700 zone rating so far this year. That is utterly horrendous. He has played terrible defense. Aside from scooping throws (which he’s decent at) he’s a terrible defensive player.
“1B is a low priority when it comes to defense anyways, I’d bite the bullet on his occasional screwup if he can start hitting.”
This general truism is repeated again and again but it does not apply to Giambi.
If you think this is generally true look at how Prince Fielder’s defense last year dampened his overall wins above replacement.
And Giambi is a worse defensive player than Fielder and nowhere near the hitter.
If Giambi plays 140 games at first he could very well give up 25 runs on defense compared to a league average defensive first baseman.
It’s hard to believe that it’s possible to give up that many runs at first because it is true that first base is the easiest position to play.
But Giambi is orders of magnitude worse than even a bad defensive first baseman.
His defense is so bad that if he stays there and he hasn’t anything but an amazing year at the plate his value could very well be approaching worse than league average value at first.
He has been awful in the field - awfu. Much worse than it looked like he’d be in spring training after he lost that weight.
I, of course, defer to those with real baseball knowledge as I’m more of an “observer” than an “analyst”.
So, here’s my humble observation on Bruney. I’ll leave it to you guys to analyze his mechanics or whatever.
Bruney was great when he got here. Dropped by Arizona (surprise! attitude issues!), he had something to prove here. Does well, gets comfortable, reverts to true self.
Struggled last season (surprise! attitude issues!) and somehow gets a nice little contract (I guess throwing high 90’s is a little sexy).
Actually listens to Girardi’s directives to get in shape and that jobs will be earned. So what does Bruney do? Gets in shape and earns a job with a great spring.
Following the pattern? What’s going to happen next? If you guessed that Bruney will get comfortable with his place on the team and revert to his true self, you get a gold star.
Now, hopefully, younger, better, sexier options will get healthy by midseason and the sunk cost will only be half of Bruney’s nice little contract. (nothing really compared to the other financial anchors on the team, but I think that Bruney’s freshly inked contract had at least something to do with him making the opening day roster).
It’s not that Bruney’s that bad, he’s just hard to champion for. If he had Joba’s personality then you might cheer for him and overlook his flaws.
Bottom line? Bruney is what he is (not all that bad, could be Gagne), but we’re basically waiting for what’s behind doors #1, 2, & 3.
A question for people -
A lot of folks are ticked that Joba pitched a second inning last night because it was in a mop-up situation and the Yanks had a considerable lead. He has an innings cap and all that.
Do all innings count the same? I would think that 2 one inning appearances are more wear and tear than one 2 inning appearance because of the stress of warming up. Does it all even out in the end?
““One last point on this issue. Giambi would have to produce at his 2001-2002 levels to remotely justify what he costs you defensively at this point in his career. Scary thing is, he was much better defensively in those years than he is today.”
Do you have statistics to back that up? Runs saved on defense vs how much he produces on offense? I’m sure CB has those stats, I simply don’t have time to go lookign for them.”
Patrick,
This is basically true. To be specific he would have to at least produce like he did in 2006. Anything less than that and he’s quickly going to be less valuable than a league average first baseman.
All of Giambi’s projections for this year assumed that he’d be used almost exclusively at DH.
If you start extrapolating from his prior runs above average allowed data it is frightening how bad he is defensively.
This is what they concluded from their projections at the RLYB:
“Giambi’s projection right now as a first baseman is basically replacement-level. If he can DH then he’s about a win and half above replacement-level.”
It was largely Giambi’s defense that dragged him down to replacement level value at first. And that projection did not have him playing 140 games at first, as Girardi was hoping to do in spring training. They projected him to play only 70 games at first.
Even 70 games drags him down to replacement level status.
The yankees cannot have a replacement level first baseman.
Giambi will have to hit well to move his value above replacement level just to make up for his glove.
http://www.replacementlevel.com/index.php/RLYW/direct/looking_ahead_to_2008_jason_giambi
Greetings.
The quailty of thses threads are great during the day. I read the Boston Globe, Chicago Sun Times and Philly Inquirer blogs when I can. This blog is by far the best until after the 1st pitch. The in game threads take a nose dive with horrible insentive banter and a large collection of non baseball posts. I had to write this simply because a regular poster actually wrote “take that you fa…ott” and then claims to always be positive. I just don’t get it.
SJ44- I read that you will be in Charelston this weekend. My wife and I lived on King St downtown for two years while I had an assignment for the company I work for. I am guessing you have been there often but if you want some suggestions for off the beaten path local pubs, restaraunts or just a place to watch a game then let me know.
We loved going to see the River Dogs in 2000-2002. We were fortunate enough to have Rocco Baldalli roaming CF one season. He was a blast to watch as a young healthy prospect.
Have a great day. -dennis
“The Tigers announced that Miguel Cabrera will begin playing first base on a regular basis, with Carlos Guillen moving to third.”
are we surprised really
“it’s a tradeoff. The Yankees would rather force Ohlendorf into a long relief role rather than cut Farnsworth or demote Bruney.”
Yes. The misevaluation of this trade off is one of the major problems in the yankees pen right now.
It’s hard to believe that they are willing to force a promising young arm like Ohlendorf into pitching in a role he wasn’t physically prepared to do in spring training because of this bizarre allegiance to Farnsworth and Bruney.
Radar gun reading have had an inordinate amount of influence over the composition of the yankee pen this year.
TKinDC,
I wasn’t among the ticked. He threw 24 pitches in 1.2 innings. He put out the fire and was already warmed up. Why not let him play in the sprinklers a little? j/k.
Girardi’s said before, they’ll watch not only Joba’s innings, but how much he labors in those innings. An inning of Joba is ususally less “strenuous” than the standard inning because he gets it done.
Mel,
I look at Bruney and I see what I see. A guy who averages almost 8 walks per 9 innings of his career who routinely allow inherited runners to score. He also is not effective in game in doubt situations.
To me, he is what he is. Kyle Farnsworth without the salary. A guy to be used in blowout games and nothing more.
Nothing wrong with that as every team has a guy like that in their bullpen. Problem is, the Yankees have 2-4 guys like that and it makes is difficult to manage over the course of the season.
I will admit, I was not in favor of Bruney making the final out of ST.
All this, “he’s a different guy” (mainly because people saw he lost a lot of weight) stuff didn’t sway me.
He’s a different guy? Ok. He should have been sent to AAA to prove it. Pitch lights out and he you get recalled. They have an option remaining with him. It could have, and should have, been done. Especially when Scott Patterson pitched circles around him this spring.
I bring up the spring because it was Girardi himself who said, “jobs are open and will be won based on performance”.
That turned out not to be the case since the guy who was perfect in the Spring (Patterson) ended up at AAA.
Which brings us to today. Patterson has pitched well in AAA. Ironically, the only two bad performances he had were on nights after the Yankees made callups to their bullpen and it wasn’t him. Jose Veras has been lights out thus far in Scranton.
Darrell Rasner has been the best starting pitcher in the IL to start the season.
My point is, there are internal options to fix the Yankees bullpen. The issue is when do you go to them?
I’m just hoping its sooner rather than later because I don’t expect guys like Bruney or Farnsworth to be any different than we are seeing right now.
Dennis,
I’ve been to Charleston a number of times. Its a great place to watch baseball and hang out for a weekend. Excellent restaurants, fun downtown, just a neat southern town.
I couldn’t live there year round. But, for the 3 times a year I go to watch the River Dogs, its a fun place to hang.
Cabrera lost a ton of weight in the off season. They thought that would make him a better defensive third baseman.
His zone rating so far this season - an abysmal .611.
Cabrera is a great hitter but his overall value as a player takes a significant hit now that he’s been forced to first base (especially at such a young age).
Shows you how valuable ARod is. Having a guy with that kind of production at third is invaluable.
Two of the best young hitters in baseball - Miguel Cabrera and Ryan Braun were both forced to move off third base this year.
CB, Jose does allow alot of flyball outs I’m not a big fan of that plus he walks people from time to time, but your right abou Patterson he has pitched well. I still get that grim feeling Ohlendorf is going to need season ending surgery at his pace this season.
SJ,
Yes, the walks are a concern. He’s improved though, not walking so many in tight situations, only when no one’s on base. haha.
I was going to comment on the inherited runners issue. But they all do it (Yes, even Joba!) and I don’t know what the deal is for the pitchers. Do they get really mad when inherited runners score? Or do they accept at least some responsibility for the runners being on base in the first place? But, I do agree, Bruney’s ERA is not reflective of how he’s pitched.
CB,
More than radar guns, its economics being forced into play and that’s disappointing.
Farnsworth and Bruney combine for more than 6 million dollars in guaranteed money this year. Hence, they are in the ‘pen and better baseball options are in AAA.
The economics are also the primary reason Giambi is not only in the everyday lineup but still on the team, IMO.
Simply put, the Yankees aren’t ready to eat this kind of cash at this time.
If you had a guy, say Minky, performing at this pathetic level, both offensively and defensively, there is no way he’s not DFA’ed.
But, when you are guaranteed over 20 million bucks, you are given every chance to get going.
Its why I can’t wait until the off-season. Farnsworth, Giambi, Mussina, Bruney (whom I think is done after this season with the Yankees) are just some of the $$$ coming off the books.
More important than the money, it will get the roster back to having living, breathing functional baseball players on it.
A welcome from what we are seeing at the present time.
83 grand for this piece of sh….. ?
Brandon -
The only redeeming aspect of the story is that the money generated by this debacle is going to cancer research for children.
This was a very classy move by the Yankees and IMHO underreported.
SJ,
What’s that great saying about finances - “If you owe the bank $10,000 it’s your problem. If you owe the bank $10 million it’s the bank’s problem.”
That’s the situation the team finds itself in now with Farnsworth and Giambi. It’s clearly economics driving those moves.
With Bruney I disagree - i don’t think his $750,000 guaranteed is saving him from a trip to AAA. It might have been a small issue but i can’t believe on a $210M team that $750K is going to be the deciding factor.
With Bruney I think it’s his velocity that keeps giving him a perpetual second life. That and his “experience” I guess.
When he walked Konerko he did the same think last night as he always does - he overthrew. 30 lbs lighter and no different a pitcher when he gets into trouble.
Bruney would be fine as a 5th, 6th inning type guys I suppose. But not in his current role. There are better candidates.
Relief pitchers shouldn’t learn how to pitch rather than throw in the majors.
But it seems that the team is not willing to experiment with the player they have in AAA yet.
All these people that are afraid Giambi is going to come back and haunt the Yankees are ridiculous. Yeah, let the Yankees not make a deal, or cut the G-Man loose, because he may rise from the dead on a team like the Blue Jays and deliver payback. Absurd.
“One thing I don’t understand about baseball is why these guys need so much damn therapy… Why are pitchers such head cases so often???
chris ny-
for someone who didn’t play baseball you sure ask a good question. the problem is that no one understands throwing. this isn’t old school vs new school either. the guys at baseball prospectus have no more idea than connie mack how to take care of pitchers. the medical technology is better now so arms can sometimes be saved when they couldn’t in the past, but to actually understand what’s good for an arm in the first place there has been little advancement.
will carroll at bp tries his best to put some science to it ,but all they really come up with is the 30 inning increase rule with young pitchers. back in the late eighties, i had the good fortune to come across some oriole players in florida who came up through the oriole system who were influenced by george bamberger who preached throwing all the time and a lot. you would be astounded if you looked back at those old oriole teams and the success these pitchers had.
now pitchers are babied because teams are so afraid to err on the wrong side of too much throwing. ironically too little throwing is just as bad. imagine you are a young pitcher in the minor leagues or major leagues on minimum salary. one pitch can end your career. you don’t know how to do anything else. you have no guarantees you haven’t spent your whole life to get to this point for nothing. this can make pitchers a little twitchy depending on their mental make up.
you get bruneys and you get chamberlains who have different make ups. they handle the uncertainty differently. the uncertainty is exacerbated when the management and coaching doesn’t really know what they’re doing. the yankees try to do the right thing , but no one totally understands what throwing is all about.
i think developing pitching is the hardest thing to do in sports.
TKinDC good point but $84 K ! you know they are trying to purchase the jersey, because I haven’t seen 84 K go to these types of causes, well good move by the Yankees FO
I’ve never understood the idea of playing someone because of the money he makes. Take Farnsworth, for example. He’s making $5.5 million this season and keeps getting put in situations to prove he’s worth the money. And he keeps failing at it.
So the Yankees are trying to get something meaningful out of their $5.5 million investment in Farnsworth, but it’s damaging the rest of their $209 million investment in the entire team.
Which would you rather lose — the $5.5 million going to Farnsworth (or the amount going to any underperformer you choose) or the $209 million for a team that won’t make the playoffs?
Either cut Farnsworth or make him irrelevant and get about doing what’s best to help the $209 million investment.
Reds fire their GM Krivsky after 21 games and a 9-12 start.
-dennis
The Tigers moves are fascinating on several fronts.
First, Its April 23 and they are aggressively addressing a weakness on their team. Its the point I’ve been trying to make re: the Yankees issues right now. Its not too early to address weaknesses.
Second, they aren’t worried about the media fallout of making such a move. That’s always a factor in NY and I’ve never understood it. You do what’s best for your team and not worry about the media fallout.
Three and most significant is, what effect will this have on Carlos Guillen? One of the reasons why they DFA’ed Sean Casey last year and put Guillen at short was because Guillen’s knees were not good enough to hold up for an entire season at first base.
Now, he has to shift to third. Not an easy position to play and its tough on the knees. Even tougher when you haven’t played it too much. As is the case with Guillen.
That’s a pretty drastic thing to do this early in the season. Just goes to show you, some teams aggressively seek to solve problems, while others play the “wait and hope for the best” game.
JMO but, I would rather aggressive address issues when they come up instead of playing the wait and hope for the best game.
That’s just me. I could be wrong.
In all honesty Cashman has made a lot of bad deals, especially pitching-wise. I don’t know who’s helping him evaluate pitchers, but he needs some help.
Is Nick Johnson an option?
Why would the Reds just fire Krivsky now? I’d have to guess there is something going on behind the scenes there. Not that I think he’s a particularly good GM (all the young talent was drafted by the prior regime).
But why let Krivsky hire Dusty Baker as a manager, trade Josh Hamilton and then fire him 20 games into the season?
To me, the biggest difference between the Yankees and Red Sox is not Josh Beckett. Its roster construction.
Look at the Red Sox roster and tell me where the waste is? There isn’t any.
About the only really bad player on the roster is Kevin Cash and he’s just there to catch the knuckleball.
Every guy on that roster adds value to their team in their selected roles.
The Yankees? Lots of dead spots on the roster.
When you look back at the Dynasty Years, the roster has a lot more flexibility and Joe Torre was at his best utilizing it to the teams advantage.
Now? How in the world, aside from economics, do you think you get anything out of Jason Giambi, Brian Bruney, Kyle Farnsworth, Mike Mussina, 3 catchers (hopefully that changes soon), etc?
It just kills you.
On the catching issue, Posada caught last night for the first time in 14 days. Meaning, he should have been on the 15 day DL. It would have helped with the roster issues and it probably cost them at least one game in the last two weeks.
Again, roster construction is the difference between the Yankees and Red Sox right now. The Red Sox do a very good job in this area and, truth be told, the Yankees are very poor in that area.
As we are seeing, it does make a difference.
“Why would the Reds just fire Krivsky now? I’d have to guess there is something going on behind the scenes there. Not that I think he’s a particularly good GM (all the young talent was drafted by the prior regime).
But why let Krivsky hire Dusty Baker as a manager, trade Josh Hamilton and then fire him 20 games into the season?”
No idea. Dusty Baker is a horrid manager. Horrid. Awful.
The Hamilton trade could actually work out - Volquez is going to be good. Really good.
But yeah, Krivsky was a poor GM.
CB.
There has to be a strife that we do not know about. His name always came up as a bright GM. 21 game into the season at 9-12 is absurd. I am sure we will get mmore details that will shed some light within 24 hours or so..
-dennis
“On the catching issue, Posada caught last night for the first time in 14 days.”
Did his bat not help in the intervening days? Would losing his bat and adding Duncan have made a positive difference?
Dennis I agree with you. That is just weird. It can’t be a baseball move. You don’t just let the guy pick a manager and then fire him like that. That just creates turmoil throughout the organization.
Is the next GM going to want to be saddled with Dusty?
What a baseball mistake Ken Griffey Jr. made in wanting to go home to play for that organization.
V.
Excellent point on hiring Dusty Baker. He is quite simply one of the worst managers in baseball.
I am going to go look up Cinci’s payroll. It is more than likely under 65mm. The dude didn’t have much to work with…
-dennis
V,
I agree Volquez could be good but Hamilton could be phenomenal.
If nothing else, I don’t think they got enough for Hamilton. It’s not a knock on Volquez - more that Hamilton has such upside and had such a promising season that to just trade him so quickly without letting a real auction start seemed like a bad move.
“V,
I agree Volquez could be good but Hamilton could be phenomenal.
If nothing else, I don’t think they got enough for Hamilton. It’s not a knock on Volquez - more that Hamilton has such upside and had such a promising season that to just trade him so quickly without letting a real auction start seemed like a bad move.”
True, they could have gotten more than -just- Volquez if they had held more of an auction.
Though, if Bailey develops (last I heard, he’s taking a play out of the Phil Hughes playbook - less velocity, more movement - in AAA), that will be an amazing pitching staff. Harang, Bailey, Cueto, Volquez.
Whozat,
No, it didn’t. What did he do with the bat in the last 14 days that were so memorable? Nothing.
Sometimes, you have to do what’s best for the team. Its great that Jorge had never been on the DL before but that wasn’t in the best interests of the team.
His bat didn’t make up for the roster space it cost them.
Just one of those decisions, while well intentioned, that didn’t work.
I think they wanted to deal Hamilton because they felt they were ’selling high’ - they also have Jay Bruce coming up, though with Griffey likely gone before too long, I don’t see the problem with having both Bruce and Hamilton…
V,
At least in the beginning of this season it seriously sounded like Krivsky had soured on Bailey. Supposedly they were thinking about trading him because they thought he would take too long to develop and they didn’t want to wait.
And I’m not referring to trading him for a Bedard type. They just were thinking about making him available to see what they could get. Bailey has been pitching well in AAA.
While I agree with you guys about Giambi, I really do believe we should give Shelley a few weeks as our regular 1b and see what he does offensively and defensively.
All this campaigning for Minky’s return has me scratching my head a bit.
He’s the Rey Ordonez of 1b. All glove. No stick.
I know everyone says we can afford to have that kind of player at 1b, but I don’t think it has to be drastic.
I think we can have someone competent defensively who can hit more than Minky.
I want to see Shelley get his chance before we dismiss him as a 1b.
I do agree with the stubbornness and business as usual feel when it comes to the bullpen.
I honestly think if Cashman called around and said Bruney and Farnsworth were available, he would get decent offers. Everyone wants power bullpen arms.
I’d love to see Farnsworth dealt and Bruney sent down and we bring up 2 guys and see what we get out of them.
If the guys we bring up can’t out pitch Bruney, then he comes back up.
Farnsworth would be no loss.
I just can’t believe that Cashman is sitting there thinking I can’t move Farnsworth, Bruney, Giambi because it will come back to bite me in the tush later on this season.
He needs to make the bold moves like the Melky, Cano, Wang promotions.
While benching or releasing Giambi might have an effect on clubhouse chemistry, I can’t imagine that doing anything with Bruney and Farnsworth will upset anyone at all other than the two pitchers.
Brandon it is going to a good cause so it is okay.
I was wrong. The Reds payroll is 74.2mm. They are roughly in the middle slightly above the SF Giants. If you had asked me “who has a higher payroll the Reds or Giants” or would not have hesitated to answer SF.
-dennis
“I think they wanted to deal Hamilton because they felt they were ’selling high’ ”
They thought Hamilton was never going to stay healthy and they needed pitching.
I’d still of taken my shot with Hamilton, Bruce and Jr. in the outfield.
Volquez was considered a good prospect - not great. Not enough for Hamilton. Not nearly enough, IMO.
The texas system is stocked, especially at the lower minor leagues.
“V,
At least in the beginning of this season it seriously sounded like Krivsky had soured on Bailey. Supposedly they were thinking about trading him because they thought he would take too long to develop