The Sunday Links
-
- April
- 27
The Yankees didn’t have Joba and fielded another funky lineup. The result was a loss against the Indians.
Chien-Ming Wang will pitch in Cleveland today for the first time since the playoffs. He’s hoping for a better showing this time. This notebook also has word on Shelley Duncan coming and Billy Traber going.
The Sunday Baseball Beat gets Jim Palmer’s breakdown on the young Yankee pitchers.
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Yanks-Indians this afternoon. The Wanger vs. future teammate C.C. Sabathia.
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on Sunday, April 27th, 2008 at 2:42 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Sorry to bring this topic up again…
Is it me or does Girardi not seem so confident in kennedy?
To be truthful, I’m more worried about our offense than our pitching. I really feel that if we got some runs on the board past 3, our pitchers wouldnt be in this position.
Kennedy showed some improvement tonight. Give the kid a break. Its early. He didnt do that bad. Its our running game thats the problem. & look at the TB game did anybody seem to notice that Ian had a great game when the lineup was scoring?
I hope they dont send him back to the minors, he showed improvement & I think he’ll be fine.
Pete:
I start my pursuit of my Masters of Science in Sport Business Management at Manhattanville this fall and when I talked to the director of the program they are adding a Sports Journalism class.
I was just wondering…Have you been contacted about maybe being a guest lecture? And if so, would you consider it??
Pete - Do you ever sleep?
like the subtle ‘future teammate’ comment
I heard the Fox broadcasters saying that next year if it was a ‘close’ bid, that C.C. had said he’d stay with the Indians, and then they debated what ‘close’ would be. I just can’t see them paying what he would want after locking up Carmona long term.
Pete, do you think he’ll def. leave Cleveland next year?
I’d love to have the “dominating CC” on this team. I’m not sure whats going on with him though. He had a great start last time out.
If he continues to pitch poorly and has a bad season, he’ll probably stay with the Indians and they’ll get him for a great price.
The Yankees lost yesterday becuase that nimwit Girardi trotted out yet another “funky” lineup? Give it a rest Pete or take a job in LA where you can continue the Torre sycophancy.
This “funky” lineup produced many opportunities to score but 2-13 or whatever with RISP is on the players, not Girardi.
Pete,
It seems like you and your collegues are holding it against Girardi about the lack of accurate information regarding Bruney’s injury. Why blame the manager? There was some concern by the Yankees which is why they sent him to NY to see a foot specialist so wouldn’t that tell you that something was up and that blaming the manager that a more serious injury occured is somewhat petty by you writers. With all these new restrictions regarding releasing personal medical information, if I was a manager I wouldn’t be releasing such information until the diagnosis is confirmed which seems to be the case of what happened in this situation.
So please enlighten us why you and Kepner are having heartburn against Girardi over this Bruney injury update?
By the way, Girardi isn’t Torre so his responses to the media’s questions are going to be different in style and delivery. Unlike Torre, who has benefited from having a ton of media experience, Girardi is a totally different personality with perhaps a higher level of bad temper than Torre.
It is a funky lineup when you don’t have Matsui in it who has a .430 OBP this season so far, hitting .321 for the season, and has a career .293 avg vs lefties.
Y’all let me know when it’s time to panic. Come on, Wanger! Let’s get some runs, boys. We’ll get ‘em today. I mean, come on. Cleveland is the armpit of Ohio, which is the left nostril of the Midwest, which is the … etc etc.
(Great symphony, though. I’ll give you that. Welser-Möst is kick a**.)
c mon we knew that we would have to be patience this year, let the young kids grow and mature, this is what the rays have been doing the last few years and look how they are doing, some of our hitters are not hitting, we have had injuries and I for one do believe that this team will do good and be near the top at the end. If not then we can ask why/ its only april folks
The RISP factor looms ever large in putting pressure on the parts of the pitching staff that need run support the most, the 3-4-5 starters and the middle relief.
A-Rod getting locked in and Cano getting out of his funk are necessary ingredients to get the offense going.
“The Yankees, Palmer said, are smart to have Hughes and Kennedy in the majors now.”
“When their offense starts scoring runs, they will be able to relax and challenge hitters,” he said. “If you can get them four runs, they’ll relax and learn how to pitch. You know that’s going to happen, their offense is too good. ”
maybe it’s not such a good idea to bring up rookies on the new york yankees in april since the offense seems to always start off slowly. the lack of offense puts even more pressure on them.
when hughes and kennedy were pitching well late last summer, the yankee’s offense was clicking at a record rate. pitching with a potent offense and often big leads allowed them to attack the zone and relax.
rookies like hughes and kennedy only have so many innings in them . why use them up in april when they are least likely to succeed?
over the winter, if cashman would have even added one veteran mediocre starter who could pitch 6 innings every fifth day with a 5.5 era, the yankees would have been way ahead in april instead of having two rookies with 9 eras.
once the rookies would be all tuned up a triple a, when winning is secondary to developing, and once the hitting warms up with the weather, they could be brought up.
the veteran goes to long and middle relief. julian taverez has done this with the red sox in the past. it’s valuable role to have on a team. the yankees don’t have a swingman like this on the team now.
if the yankees absolutely need to bring up a rookie or young pitcher in april, they should bring up one they can afford losing to injury. the weather is terrible and often risky to their health.look at joba pitching on the slippery mound the other night and injuring his hamstring.
for the above reasons rasner should have been the yankees april pitcher instead of hughes, and some journeyman veteran like tavarez should have been in the rotation instead of kennedy.
Go Wang!
Craw i’m pretty sure that a guy in the majors would sign a release so the team can tell the public about anything that may go wrong with them physically. I know we did it for college sports and the newspapers aren’t exactly clamoring to get information about injuries from guys at Wagner College. lol
It is more about JG wants to play his cards close to the vest, which I suppose he is entitled to do, but it makes the media’s job more difficult and people who make my life difficult usually dont have me writing nice things about them.
Nice article Pete. I liked watching the O’s broadcast because Palmer is a good announcer in a world otherwise bereft of them. Maybe reading this will be able to get some people off the ledge about the young guys in the rotation.
The Yankees had the perfect storm in regards to going with the youth movement coinciding with the closing/opening of the Stadium…meaning they have two years to get things going in the right direction with the kids.
Upper management had to know that the Stadium will be full these two years, no matter how they did standings wise, and isn’t that how you tell were you stand with the fans…Stadium Attendance.
I mean if the Yankees don’t make the playoffs this year and I am not saying they won’t, just that if they don’t, this year will not be a total loss with the kids gaining much need experience…you have to think that upper management knew this as well.
As for fans that want instant success, it will be a long year…for the rest of us that don’t live on the edge of the bridge each night, it won’t be a pleasant year, but it will be looked at as a year were the kids got much needed major league experience.
The Yankees will be shedding some 50-mil in salary next year, opening a new Stadium that will be a cash cow, and IMO one of the best minor league systems, that will only get better (see Single A Charleston). Also, if you can afford it, check out Yankees Scout, they do a great job covering the Yankees minor leaguers, all the way down to the DSL (Dominican League), which has some really nice young 16-18 year old talent.
All in all the Yankees are two games back in the loss column and the hitters haven’t started to hit, as well play almost a month on the road. This season is long from over…it is just starting to heat up.
Have a good day to all and for all of you who follow the Orthodox calendar, Happy Easter
Hey Darth Vader… sure the stadium wil be full, but its also not going to be very good for anyone to have Hughes and Kennedy (And Moose and Farnsworthless) getting booed by 55,000 people every night. Hows THAT gonna go with their confidence?
Gentleman, I highly recommend Sherman’s column today in the The NYP. (Although the photo the internet editor captioned along with it is an embarassment)
It’s a must a read for those of you still committed to retaining Joba in the bullpen for the forseeable future.
The irony of course is that Sherman fails to disclose that he’s on record as agreeing with you, the article notwithstanding.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04272008/sports/yankees/the_eyes_have_it_108369.htm
I can only pray CC signs with the Yankees. We need a “True” ace as Wang is very good but not a Beckett/Santana/Sabathia by any means.
Sabathia
Wang
Pettite
Hughes
Kennedy
CC IS VERY GOOD PITCHER. BUT CC IS NOT A “TURE “ACE.
“TRUE”
Don’t look at the Small Sample Size of CC’s slow start.
CC- 1 CY Young
Wang - None
I am sure majority of fans would take CC over Wang.
Vader
I’ve thought that has been the Yankees approach as well. It’s a team who might win now but it’s a team being built to win in the coming years.
James G
The 12th man concept from football, needs to be taught to some fans in Yankee Stadium.
Most fans will never be able to pitch in a major league game or stand in the box against a major league pitcher but its their job to support the team they root for. Every time a Yankee player is booed in Yankee Stadium by a Yankee fan, the fan hasn’t done their job that day.
No to CC, at least not yet.
I’d like to see more from him this season. I’m concerned about his weight problem, especially when he is known to have a poor diet and he has said he is the thinnest person in his family.
Also, he really didn’t pitch better than Wang in the last ALDS. He was just as bad, but got better run support so his bad outings were not as glaring.
I agree he has the raw talent no doubt. And he seems like the type of guy who would fit well in our club house. I’ll just like to see more of him (at least after today’s game!) and hopefully next week in the Bronx before claiming him a future Yankee.
Jim Palmer had some very interesting things to say in Pete’s sunday baseball column today. Some really insightful stuff.
Here’s Palmer’s take on Hughes after watching him pitch in Baltimore last week:
“Hughes: “His fastball is his best pitch. He has a pretty good curveball, a good changeup and good command when he’s pitching. I watched him pitch against Baltimore (last weekend), and he pitched well. He seems to have one bad inning sometimes, but he’ll learn to avoid that.”
On Kennedy:
“Kennedy: “He just doesn’t know how good he is. I read a quote in the paper where he said he has proven he can pitch in the majors. Well, he hasn’t proven anything yet. He’s going to have to be more aggressive. He needs to be more aggressive early in the count. You want to respect the hitters, but you don’t want to over-respect them where you feel you have to be perfect.”
That’s a great line on Kennedy - “He doesn’t know how good he is.”
Palmer also said that once the offense starts scoring more then Hughes and Kennedy will be able to relax more and learn how to pitch.
If you haven’t read it take a look:
http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080427/SPORTS01/804270344/1108/SPORTS01
I have to completely agree with and reiterate Kill-Schill’s recommendation above.
Joel Sherman’s column on Joba today is an absolute must read. Sherman talked to several scouts and what they had to say about Joba being a starter vs. reliever was eye-opening.
A couple of quotes:
“The times I saw him, he was an easy-identification No. 1 starter. He was powerful and resilient. He went deep into games and used all four of his pitches. That is what impressed me most about him. He would strike out 2-3 guys in a row with a fastball, then go 2-2 and throw a plus-potential change. Not only did he have a good arm, but he also showed real pitchability.”
“I will tell you what I think on this kid. You put him in a playoff game, and when he leaves it is going to be 1-0 or 2-1. The score is going to be low for the other side. He was a dominant No. 1 guy in the minors. I left the stadium and said, “What else do you want in a starting pitcher?”"
The scouts are filled with raves about Joba being a future #1 starter.
And in particular, one of the most common themes across the scouts is how Joba is able to hold his velocity - how he was able to throw 97-98 DEEP into games.
“I was very impressed. The first couple of innings he was 94-96 (mph). By the fifth inning, he was 97-99.”
One scout who saw him said that Joba was much better than Papelbon was as a starter because Papelbon was throwing 92-94 as a starter and Joba has very good secondary pitches while Papelbon’s secondary offerings were average.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04272008/sports/yankees/the_eyes_have_it_108369.htm?page=3
Hey, why was Asdrubal Cabrera breaking toward 2nd on Jeter’s hit anyway? Was Melky trying to steal 2nd? Were the Yankees playing hit an run?
Despite the mound slowing the ball, Cabrera made that play only because he was so close to 2nd base. What was he doing there?
Anyone know?
Pat~ I’d argue that if the player gets booed, its the player that hasn’t done their job that day.
I don’t boo young guys (Hughes or Kennedy), or head cases (ARod) since it will only make them worse. But I do boo a player that doesnt do his job, like getting the run in from 3rd with less than 2 outs, or failing to lay down a bunt or getting thrown out on the base paths. Stupid things like that, when done repeatedly will earn a boo from me.
Its repeated mistakes (Giambi defensively at 1st base, Farnsworthless wild pitches or down the pipe FB’s) that make most fans boo.
“You don’t pay guys $20 million a year to bunt.” from last thread.
Pete, I hate to say this, but this comment tells how ignorant you are of baseball. Sorry, I had to write this, after reading how you are belittling some bloggers with such comments for expressing their views.
You play the game to win and if the player is capable of bunting (not all are) and the situation dictates, you bunt. It does not matter how much he makes.
As much as you want to say no, your writings here reflect that Jeter and Torre can do nothing wrong and A-Rod and Girardi get criticised constantly. You take the same approach with Hank and Cash and the other day you changed course in a New York minute to retract and write exactly the opposite, after Cash probably gave you an earful (you stated you talked to cash).
I love Jeter, but he gets more credit than he deserves. During the dynasty years, I believe that Bernie and Paul contributed more than Jeter, but Jeter gets all the credit. Since 2001 we did not win WS, Jeter is the captain and why he is not responsible at least partly for the lack of success? It is because of the kind of applogies you and your peers make for him. Last year playoffs, Jeter was the most responsible for our failures with so many DPs and killing the rallies. I understand it is your right to have your opinion, but respect the opinion of the others who disagree with you. Also, I udnerstand you are a New Englander, but do not write the rubbish that Yankees fans do not know any thing. Every team will have knuckle head fans, that does not mean majority of the fans are like that.
The big if is the offense. Last year, with the exception of Arod and Posada, they didn’t hit (especially with RISP) for the first 2+ months of the season. At least with any level of consistency.
By the time they did hit, they dug themselves a big, big hole.
This year, more of the same. The DP’s and K’s with RISP being particularly distrubing. Its become an everyday thing with this team and that plays on a teams psyche.
The one thing Girardi has to do is send more runners from first in DP situations. While Jeter’s DP in the 9th yesterday was bad luck, it was a mistake not sending Melky early in the count, IMO.
Victor Martinez can’t throw and the Japanese pitcher was really slow to the plate. Gotta look to stay out of the DP in that situation. If the Indians bring the infield in, it gives Jeter a better chance to get a hit. At worst, it takes the DP out of play.
Fortunately, nobody has broken from the pack in the AL East. With the exception of a 4 game home layup with the Rangers (a team everybody will get fat on this year), the Red Sox are playing .500 ball.
Aside from that, the Sox are struggling with injuries and inconsistency on their end. What’s saved them is their offense. They lead the AL in just about every offensive catagory. Its how they have been able to overcome Ortiz’s slow start.
Its tough enough to break in young pitchers. Its even tougher when you don’t hit. It puts too much pressure on them and they pitch too fine. That leads to trouble.
I don’t think anybody, fans, media, Cashman, Girardi, etc., could have anticipated the biggest problem with the team would be the offense. Unfortunately, it is and the only way to solve it is hoping they hit.
They aren’t any moves they can make. You just have to hope guys hit. If not, I don’t care how good or bad the pitching is, they will struggle because this team (for better or worse) is built on offense.
The Yankees weren’t running on the play. Cabrera was playing Jeter toward the middle and broke for the ball. The ball hit the mound and went right to Cabrera, as he was breaking for the ball.
Every fan has a right to boo. It doesn’t mean he/she should exercise it. But, hey Yankee fans think they are “smarter” than everybody, so some think booing is the thing to do. It doesn’t help, as we saw with Arod for 3 years.
You are never going to change it. Its just the way many sports fans today express themselves. Doesn’t make it right. Its just the way it is.
SJ44, are you sure Girardi didn’t send Melky on Jeter’s DP in the 9th. I can’t fathom why else Asdrubal was practically standing on 2nd base when fielded the ball.
What worries me about the Sux is that the Ellsbury-Pedroia tandem. They’re .OBPs are .414 and .373. If they’re on-base before Ortiz and Manny, opposing pitchers are going to have problem with the Sux all season.
Gotcha, I wonder how sending Melky would have changed Cabrera’s location, if at all.
I suspect Melky would have had to swipe 2nd before Jeter hit the ball to have made a difference by averting the chance for a DP.
Kill-Schill and CB, thanks for the article on Joba. Which reminds me, Joba is our CC, except Joba has better raw stuff and is not fat.
To the people who say our future rotation should be Sabathia, Wang, Hughes, Joba, Kennedy. Be careful what you wish for.
It sounds good on paper but in reality it’s unlikely we can have a whole rotation of #1 and 2 pitchers. If wang continues to grow and pitch well, and Joba and Hughes fulfill their projection of being future aces, then in that rotation, someone will leave to go to another team where they can be real aces. I’d rather keep the home-grown cheaper guys than to pay $150million to buy one just to let Hughes and Wang go somewhere else to win for a league rival.
All I’m saying is, it’s still early. Let’s see how Hughes, Wang, Joba and even IPK develop by August before we have CC locked up.
Never could understand a Yankee fan who jeers Yankees players. Do you think it helps? DO you think anyone of them DON’T want to succeed?
Imagine someone hovering over your shoulder while you’re at work jeering every mistake you make.
Exactly. If, for example Melky went on the first or second pitch (Jeter would have had to take both pitches), you give him a chance to steal the bag and stay out of the DP.
If he was out, Jeter still has the bat in his hands and a chance to win the game because Damon is still on third. If he steals the bag, it changes the way the Indians have to play Jeter.
Unfortunately, the only really bad thing that could happen on the play happened. The DP.
Obviously, you can’t do it with every runner at first. But, IMO, they should have done it with Melky yesterday.
There’s plenty of time to determine whether or not CC would be a good acquisition.
I’d rather concentrate on this season and they aren’t getting him this year.
SJ, I agree…I watch every game and get pissed a lot, I’m sure I say things that my wife doesn’t like, but I don’t boo.
I mean I never understood what good it does when the home team’s fans boo their own players.
I enjoyed getting Palmer’s perspective. Nice piece.
This was a stupidly managed and played game from the lineup to Melky bunting in a NO BUNT situatiuon and Girardi and Jeter not recognizing a 1 run game with Mo if the ninth is a good thing - a bunt there - squeeze with jeter handling the bat and Damon running sets up a win and NO OLlendorf