Don’t forget the original “kids”
-
- April
- 28
April 27 will be remembered as the day Jorge Posada went on the disabled list for the first time in his career.
Which is too bad, because the day belonged to Chien-Ming Wang and Melky Cabrera. The Wanger threw seven shutout innings and the Melkman homered off C.C. Sabathia for the game’s only run.
Some fans think the vaunted Yankees youth movement started with Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy. It really started back in 2005 when Wang and Robbie Cano made their debut in the same week. Cabrera continued the trend when he made the squad out of spring training in 2006.
All Wang has done is gone 43-13, 3.63 since the start of the 2006 season. Cano became an All-Star. Cabrera forced his way into the lineup and knocked Johnny Damon out of center field.
It’s a popular theory among some Yankees fans that Austin Jackson (or Brett Gardner) will be the center fielder in a few years. Not so fast. Cabrera is hitting .291 and leads the team with five home runs, three fewer then he hit all last season. His OBP is .356. Perhaps Jackson should take a look at left field.
By following A-Rod’s workout routine, Melky has gotten stronger and more fit. He’s only 23 and his power is just starting to develop. That he was able to knock one out against Sabathia should tell you something.
Melky did an interview with the media today with his buddy Cano translating. Melky can speak plenty of English but is shy when a large group gets around him, which is certainly understandable.
A few writers teased him a little, asking about his Manny Ramirez pose at the plate when he hit the homer. Cano found it funny but Melky just stood his head and walked away.
Ah, the price of being a slugger.
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on Monday, April 28th, 2008 at 12:11 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Melky Cabrera, as I’ve said before, might be the most underrated player on the Yankees.
I do not think this will remain so by the end of this year.
That said, I got my second-to-last-day-of-undergraduate-class-ever tomorrow so I’d best call it a night.
Did Melky seriously only hit 2 HR’s last season? wow.
And sometimes it is easy to forget how new Wang is on the scene because he’s been so good (like today for example). Hopefully, Hughes and Kennedy will pick up a few tips from him, and they’ll get more comfortable in their roles in the rotation, because we really need them to step up some this season.
That’s so true, Pete; good blog entry. I don’t recall hearing much about Wang before he was brought up and the Yankees wanted to deal Cano to the D-Backs. In fact, the one of the scouting directors (forgot his name) recently admitted that although they liked Cano, he was hardly a “wow” type prospect. They made a mistake with him and got lucky that the D-Backs didn’t like him.
Melky is really a remarkable story because his big league career got started in the most humiliating way possible, making a lousy defensive play in Fenway Park of all places. The kid may be shy, but he’s got serious inner strength; some kids may have melted under that kind of start (and in NY to boot), but not Melky. He’s so much fun to watch and I kind of think it’s sweet that he’s so shy. His teammates seem to have affection for him and he’s got a great nickname.. Leche, lol.
Pete, this is a great post. With all the confusing news about Jorge, it’s nice to have a lift. Thank you!
Just think, Melky has hit more HRs than Arod so far. And Wanger only needs to win just under 55% of his remaining games to cross the 20-win mark this year. Lots of thing to be hopeful about.
Melkey hit 8 last yr.
He’s done a much better job of attacking mistake pitches- which is the key to hitting hr’s. He takes meaningful hacks on pitches over the plate. It’s a tremendous sign of his development and a real credit to Mattingly, and Kevin Long.
Melissa, I think Hughes is picking up a few tips from Wang. Couple games ago in the dugout they showed Wang and Phil in a very animated conversation, looks like Wang was showing Phil how to do his sinker pitch.
Hi Pete
Just curious. Why didn’t they gave Wang a post game interview since it’s such a huge win for Wang. Especially a great comeback win from last postseason’s letdown?
I think Melky is one of the coolest players on the team. I love how he seems so happy all the time. And that little dance-hop he does in the dugout and on the field after a win makes me laugh! Unfortunately, he is definitely underrated…hopefully that changes soon.
Melissa, Melky hit 7 homeruns last year. Pete, you’re definitely right about Melky but A-Jack is coming on pretty fast. He is supposed to have better range than Melky, but definitely not a better arm. At the end of the day, Melky is a better option at centerfield than A-Jack (when he gets here). The thing is Melky has to keep hitting and stay away from the double play disease that DJ has been so good at these past few years.
My bad, Melky hit 8 homers.
I really like Melky. He just seems so unspoiled and truly enjoys playing the game when you see him out on the field. And one thing his buddy Robbie should learn from him is that Melky never daydreams out there on the field. He’s very focused on every play.
Action is a better route runner than Melky that is more improtant in CF, Action’s arm isn’t bad it’s more over average he can throw from the track to to 2B w/o a hop, Melky’s arm is a weapon anywhere on the field, LF or RF shouldn’t be too far away in Melky’s future.
Yes, Melky is underrated…but that will surely change if he continues to produce as he has recently…the power is a welcom surprise…
I think people forget how much energy he infused into the club in 2006…he was showing signs of what might be back then…
The original kids were Rivera, Posada, and Jeter.
I had my doubts about Melky, but thank goodness he’s proving me wrong!
Dee
I really like seeing those chemistry between Wang and his teammates. I know Joba has been asked Wang to teach his sinker. And Wang wanted to learn Joba’s nasty fast ball as well hahaha…
It’s really a good thing if they can learn from each others pitches don’t you think?
My full post didn’t post and I’m too tired to retype the whole thing. My main point was about Melky and how much inner strength he must have. He has bounced back wonderfully from that devastating game in Boston and become a much better player than any of us could have hoped; many kids would have fallen apart after that. Melky works hard and that has very likely earned the respect of his teammates; they also seem to have great affection for Leche. I think it’s very sweet that he’s so shy….being shy myself, I can identify with him. The Melkman is such a fun player to watch, too……
Cano – the Yankees got very lucky on because although they liked him, they didn’t love him and the D-Backs fortunately passed on him. I have faith in him – the kid is a genuinely natural hitter.
Wang, I don’t remember hearing much about him, but he has just turned out to be fantastic and a real workhorse.
Pete, when I read the headline and your first sentence I assumed you were going to talk about the “original kids” named Posada, Jeter, and Pettite.
When we look back at the great decade-plus this team has given us — I mean, when we look back way years from now — what we’ll remember are these overlapping youth movements and not the free-agent signings.
Also: Viva Melky! He’s now hitting .291/.356/.506, which is Fantastic for a center fielder of ANY age.
mel-
Don’t for get Andy P was a kid too.
Some kids away back like Bernie had bullies like Mel Hall whoop his butt day in day out. Poor Bernie!
Melky will be the RFer if he can put up an .800+ OPS. He doesn’t have the top end speed to remain in CF when A-Jack is ready. I’m still not sold on Gardner.
his nickname is “Action Jackson” get it right !
rip,
Thanks. I was wracking my brain, knowing I was forgetting someone. Pettitte, the part-time Yankee. lol.
I wouldn’t worry about the posing. It’s just Melky being Melky. I’ve noticed that he likes to stick his tongue out a lot when he runs the bases after getting a hit. He seems like a bit of a cheeky guy, but I find it endearing.
Hey Buddy Biancalana — You’re totally right, I left Bernie off that list!
Action Jackson, wasn’t that a film that starred Lando Calrissian?
Melky picking up tips on how to deal with media:
**spin on heels and walk away without saying anything.
Just kidding. Very nice of Cano to help out Melky. They’ve basically switched roles this year.
oh yeah, and of course Rivera too! Man, was THAT ever a youth movement.
I hope the folks at Baseball Prospectus wouldn’t mind my quoting a short passage… this is their 1996 player comment for Mariano Rivera. I LOVE this.
“1996: Skinny swingman who has good control of the corners of the strike zone. His K rate seemed to jump up a little as of late, and if that’s development rather than a fluke, this kid could really be something special. Looks way too skinny to be durable, but you never know.”
Indeed!
Austin Jackson wants to be called A-Jack, not A-Jax or Action Jackson.: http://thunderbaseball.wordpress.com/2008/04/26/you-asked-they-answered/
Melky did look at the blast for a bit, but it wasn’t anything like Manny would and has done. I understand the teasing, but Manny – while he may be respected as a great hitter – probably doesn’t command much respect for how he acts.
Ashish Skaria I was about to post that, I guess fans from now on it’s A-Jack, Mike Ashmore on top of his game again. P.S. there are David Robertson clips there people.
does anyone have the link for the trade rumor about Jeff clement to the yankees?
eve,
Agree. The young guys all seem to get along really well despite some language barriers. Make for great chemistry in the club house.
I’m still a skeptic when it comes to Melky, but the kid is making it hard for me to stay one.
Wang keeps this up and he could be the AS Game starter. How sweet would that be? As good as he is, he still gets little to no props around baseball it seems.
A-Jack is unique. Maybe he didn’t want to be associated with or pay royalties to a scouring powder.
A-Rod
A-Jack
A-Brack
Who else?
Bob,
It’s simply mind-boggling what CMW’s done since mid-2005.
He literally is the “best” pitcher in the last 2 seasons as far as wins (that’s all that counts!) are concerned.
I was very impressed how the he didn’t let the leadoff hitter (4/7 innings) score today.
Let’s not forget that Melky hit only .273/.327/.391 last year, which is poor even for a center fielder. I love Melky and I’m encouraged that he seems to be improving this year, but he needs to consistently perform and get in even better shape to be our long-term center fielder.
hp Clement was rumored to Boston I have not heard anything of him to the Yankees, he is a good prospect and the signing of Kenji Johjima is what forced him to the bench Boston offered Coco Crisp Seattle said no repeatedly, they want a Lowrie, Masterson and Crisp package…for the Yankees this would be Gardner, Tabata or A-Jack and Horne or Kennedy
ahem Pete, Cabrera didn’t make the team out of ST in 06, he was up after Matsui fell on his wrist and Sheff started going all Carl Pavano
Put me on the list as “stunned” as to what Melky is becoming right in front of our eyes.
I remember him botching that ball in CF at Fenway into an inside the park homer when he was first brought up to the majors and saying to my friend, “he’ll never play CF for the Yankees again”.
Shows what I know.
The amount of power he’s showing isn’t a just a hot streak he’s on. I think he’s going to surprise a lot of people with where his HR’s end up this year.
He’s got such a quick compact stroke right now.
I think it’d be interesting to find out what the owner of the Twins must think when he sees his dopey GM gave up Hughes and Melky (plus others) in the same deal at the winter meetings.
It’s hard for me to give Cashman too much credit on Melky since he’s been rumored to be traded for just about everyone the past couple of years.
I think even the Yankee front office is surprised what with what they are seeing from Melky right now.
As for Wang, he was brilliant today.
I’m a big critic of his since I have beef with that non-performance in the ALDS last year, but he’s been nothing short of an ace this season.
I hope he keeps it up because I’m still convinced the 3-5 spots of this rotation will sink this team as presently constituted.
“Carl Pavano”
that name stil brings me nightmares
One of the reasons I wanted Torre fired was that I’ve thought for a long time that benching Melky and Andy Phillips (though he wasn’t that young) in the 2006 playoffs cost us the championship. The Yankees were far and away the best team in baseball that year after Melky and Phillips started playing every day, and then all of a sudden they were benched at the end of the season. You don’t change 2 out of 9 spots on the best team in the game; besides the obvious, it alters the chemistry on the team. Likewise, our abysmal start last year abated when the two began starting regularly again, and we played poorly down the stretch and in the playoffs without Phillips. I personally think letting go of Phillips was a poor decision; he played gold glove caliber defense (not appreciated enough by anyone) and had a knack for clutch hits. Giambi could hit 30 HRs and not be worth as much; he clogs the basepaths and while his defense isn’t as bad as reputed, having an excellent first baseman makes a big difference (largely because of the errors it prevents the other infielders from making).
All that said, I love Melky and don’t think he’s going anywhere for a long, long time. I think we need to appreciate what an awesome situation we finally have; by the end of next year, we’ll have a core of players in place for the next decade who won’t change: Melky, Jackson, Cano, ARod, Wang, Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain (I’m unfortunately not optimistic that Jeter isn’t on a fast decline; it isn’t noticeable in most facets yet because he’s still an all-star caliber player just not HOF caliber, but he’s definitely lost a step or two, his defense is nowhere near what it once was, and he doesn’t seem to be hitting for quite as much power as he once did, not in the sense of HRs but in the sense of line drive in the gaps; that isn’t to say he won’t be one of the best shortstops in the game for years to come). On the other hand, I am optimistic that both Duncan and the Attorney General can surprise people and be mainstays for years. If Cash is smart and signs them all soon like the Rays did with Longoria, we might actually see a payroll below 120 Million one day.
oh and on Melky watever Alex told him please take Cano and do the same again. Melky is hot right now, and it shows how he’s recognizing the pitch and the sound off the bat that you hear now is very evident of him learning to keep his balance and getting the sweet spot of the bat on the ball.
So I’ve been right about Melky all along.
His performance thusfar is only a reinforcement of how much I’ve believed in him since 06. He’s a special kid. I can’t wait for him to prove all his naysayers wrong.
He didn’t make the club out of ST, though, Pete. He got called up in May when Sheff (Not Matsui. Sui’s injury only gave him more playing time) got hurt.
And in regards to Cabrera and power, I distinctly remember when he was originally called up in 2005, one of the announcers said that Bucky Dent (his minor league manager) had told them he thought Melky would be a 25-30 HR hitter one day and was one of the best players he’s managed. Don’t forget how young he still is.
I haven’t seen Jackson play, but Melky makes up for his lack of speed (though he’s faster than he looks when he’s running, same as Abreu) because he gets unbelievable jumps on the ball, better than Bernie or Damon ever did. I don’t often see him fail to get to a ball in his area unless it’s scorched.
Excellent point small schools. I always think of that when people mention Melky and his power. Maybe when it’s all said and done, we might have Bernie Williams 2.0 on our hands.
This made me smile. Thanks Pete.
I don’t know why but I like hearing that he is shy around a large group. Seems like a fun-loving normal kid.
small schools Austin or A-Jack like he prefers
is a joy to watch
A-Jack
Roger Clemens apparently didn’t forget the kids either:
“The New York Daily News reports that Roger Clemens carried on a decade-long affair with country star Mindy McCready.
If only he’d officially retire, we wouldn’t have to bother with stuff like this. The Daily News says the romance that began when McCready was a 15-year-old aspiring singer performing in a karaoke bar and Clemens was a 28-year-old father or two. His attorney denied that the two had a sexual relationship. ”
-Rotoworld
After Wang’s win, ^twii was up 1.47% (just closed). For those who are intersted in EWT, have a nice day.
Hey Pete,
Is Wang’s finger okay?
It seems he has that finger nail problem again,
wonder you can give us some info on that!
Cheers
Sora
You have to give credits to CASH for not trading away Wang, Cano and Melky in which he had multiple oppotunities to do so in the past few years.
Jeter, Posada and Rivera are different stories in which Yankee management develped to keep from the very beginning, way before CASH joined the organization.
“After Wang’s win, ^twii was up 1.47% (just closed). For those who are intersted in EWT, have a nice day.”
Just a Coincidence. Don’t take it too serious .
Whoaaa.. Clemens had a 10 year affair when he was 28 with a girl who was 15!?!? What a family man
http://tinyurl.com/6p4qlu
He just thought she was kute.
I love me some melk man!!!
Oh perfect… the NEW Roger story. Goes great with my coffee. Maybe this is what Pete meant by the “the vaunted Yankees youth movement.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/04/27/2008-04-27_sources_roger_clemens_had_10year_fling_w.html
Well that’s baseball. On Saturday Melky had a horrible AB that might have cost the Yankees the game and yesterday he wins the game with one swing of his bat.
“A-Rod
A-Jack
A-Brack
Who else?”
A-Rom, the starting catcher for the Yankees in 2012. This is assuming J-Mon is switched to 1B. Then there’s F-Cerve who should be on the way sooner…
Do we really need three mentions of the trash the Daily News spews?
Thanks, but no thanks. I’ll toss it in the garbage, where it belongs.
The romance began when she was 15 and he was 28??????????
:O
Melky is a year younger than Jacoby Ellsbury and has pretty much 2 full years of MLB experience under his belt.
Hi Pete,
My only objection to the post is that Cabrera is better suited to right field than center. Jackson’s a natural center fielder. In my opinion, it would be Cabrera moving to right, but if he’s slugging like this, that’s no problem–he can justify playing at any position in the outfield.
If only Robby Cano could show the focus and maturity that his best buddy Melky has.
Melky celebrates when one of his teammates does well on the field but once he’s on the field or at bat, he’s all business.
“Some fans think the vaunted Yankees youth movement started with Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy”
Pete, look at the names you mention Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy. Versus Cabrera, Wang, and Cano. Do I need to say more?……..Foreign get it?….White…other…if you still don’t get it read history.
I said it last week and I’ll say it again. Melky seems to have a little of the same “magic” about him that Jeter did as a young player. Neither seemed to have the most natural talent as young players but they always seems to find a moment to step up and shine.
Ah, about time someone talked Melky up. I’ve been doing it since his debut. Most people were ready to sell him up the river during the off season. I guess the bandwagon will start now.
Pat, Derek has been a great hitter since he’s been up in the bigs; I’m not sure how you can say he’s not a natural talent. He was also a high draft pick out of high school – I don’t think Melky is a good comparison for DJ at all.
I will say that the Melkman does seem to have some magic about him – his teammates appear to have great affection for him. Personally, I love how shy he is – it’s kind of sweet (plus being shy myself, I can identify with the kid). I give Melky a ton of credit for overcoming that disastrous start to his career in Boston; many kids would have had a complete meltdown, but Melky just seems to keep improving. It’s all to his credit……and to A-Rod and Robbie who work with him.
“Neither seemed to have the most natural talent as young players”
I’m pretty sure Jeter was always considered to have LOADS of natural talent.
Still not 100% sold on Melky. Think he’s an adequate everyday outfielder. Does a lot of things pretty well, but does nothing great. Still think he’s better suited to a corner outfield position than center, but he’s clearly the best the Yanks best option in center right now.
Jeter was what, the 5th or 6th pick in the 1st round??? Think it’s safe to say that Jeter was thought to have possessed considerable natural talent when the Yanks called his name. Even safer to say that they were right.
Wasn’t it Melky who hit a homerun off of Carmona in the “midges” game, for the only score for the Yankees? When will we stop being “pleasantly surprised” that Melky does as well as he does? I like him and I was very glad he wasn’t traded away this past winter. As for “not giving Cashman too much credit” because he was willing to include Melky in a trade – I would say to that that you have to give quality to get quality (something that a lot of people tend to forget when concocting potential Yankee trades).
Anyway, isn’t it funny how you don’t even know a “movement” is occurring until you’re smack in the middle of it?? (That would be true of social and political movements as well.)
Here is what I see are out weak spots and how they should be fixed:
LF – Damon/Matsui. In my opinion, Matsui shouldn’t be allowed to play outfield and should be designated to DH. That said, Damon is on a hot streak now and you can’t pull him but if he goes into some kind of prolonged slump we need to consider bringing up Gardner. If Giambi can hold his own (or at least play majority of a platoon) then that opens a spot for a 4th outfielder ala Gardner.
1B – no permanent fix but Teixiera is sounding nice and no one fits the team better.
C – only a temp problem with Posada out. Molina is a great catcher. Not much of a power threat but isn’t terrible offensively.
P – Moose is fine, Hughes needs to step up and appeared to be doing so in his last 2 starts. We need to find a replacement for Kennedy because our…
BP – Farns/Hawkins/Ohlendorf are going to be overused. With Bruney out, our only solids are the 2 guys at the end. If Chamberlain becomes a S we need to promote (Horne?) someone to middle relief.
Doreen, I think you are right. It was Melky.
Do you guys remember when Melky first came up in ‘05? Boy was he overmatched. He looked like a 12 year old on that field. When he came back in ‘06, and dropped that pop fly in his first game against the Red Sox, everyone wanted him gone. Now look at him. He’s hit 5 homeruns, when he hit 7 all last season and 8 the season before. Not to mention, he is one of the most loved guys on that team.
small school: “Giambi could hit 30 HRs and not be worth as much; he clogs the basepaths and while his defense isn’t as bad as reputed..”
Uh…yes it is.
Rod Barajas, Gerald Laird, Darin Erstad, Esteban German and Placido Polanco all hit HR’s off Sabathia last year.
Melky taking (specifically) Sabathia deep means absolutely nothing.
Melky da man
“Melky taking (specifically) Sabathia deep means absolutely nothing.”
Meant something yesterday. Granted it was an 85 MPH breaking pitch or cutter that didn’t move, but it surely did mean something.
Melky did it to Halladay too. Gotta love little Melky’s big pop.
Its amazing. Only some Yankee fans can downgrade their own players and pass it off as if its “objective baseball commentary”.
“Wang isn’t an ace”, even though he is 5-0 and has been arguably the best starting pitcher in the AL this month. Melky, who has been the best all around player on the team so far this season, hits the GW HR off the reigning Cy Young Winner on the road and folks are “still not impressed”.
Makes you wonder what would impress you.
You have two players who are improving right before your eyes. Instead of finding fault with them, why not be happy they are improving and helping your team win?
If you are looking for perfect players, they don’t exist.
Apparently Josh Beckett has a problem with the RS’ schedule so far:
http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/sp_bb_rsoxjo28_04-28-08_J09U7TR_v8.3206ed0.html
16-13 entering May and dead even with the BoSux….GO YANKEES !
Don Vito, didn’t Pete tell you to shut your mouth a few days ago?
Poor Joshy no likey to play game so much….maybe he need to put his little heady down and go sweepy bye ?
JK, don’t remember seing that, but thanks for being today’s first j@ck@$$ !
“It’s hard for me to give Cashman too much credit on Melky since he’s been rumored to be traded for just about everyone the past couple of years. ”
the last thing i want to do is start another Cashman debate, but this seems like a silly criticism.
since when are “rumors” necessarily valid?
in this day of the internet/blogging, anyone can basically start a rumor about any player.
there were rumors that Texas asked for Melky for Gagne. if it’s true, Cashman laughed at them.
the bottom line is that Melky wasn’t traded.
Cashman signed Melky. just like he signed Chien Ming Wang.
BTW, its a schedule the Yankees play EVERY year. With the exception of the Japan trip, the Yankees always have night getaway games. Tonights game with Cleveland is another night getaway game.
So much for Theo saying his team won’t “make any excuses about the schedule”.
The schedule stinks throughout MLB. Its why so many games are played in the rain and why so many players are already on the DL.
The Red Sox aren’t the only team with a rotten schedule this season.
“Do you guys remember when Melky first came up in ‘05? Boy was he overmatched. He looked like a 12 year old on that field. When he came back in ‘06, and dropped that pop fly in his first game against the Red Sox, everyone wanted him gone. Now look at him.”
so what you are saying is that maybe Yankee fans should show a little patience with the really young guys?
huh. that’s crazy. everyone here wants Hughes and Kennedy drawn and quartered.
maybe people are too young to remember Bernie when he came up with his goofy glasses and didn’t play like an all-star for a few years.
how about Cone talking on Friday about how immature Andy Pettitte was in 1995?
there are some guys, like Jeter and Joba, who can come up and be major leaguers right off the bat. but those guys are the exception to the rule.
In Game 24, Pete called Vito clueless, and told Vito to “Put down his Pinstripe Pom Poms” Haha! Don Vito, you also just violated the terms of service by using crude language. That won’t get you back into Pete’s good graces.
“Don Vito:
Let’s agree on this: You have no idea whatsoever what Giami talks to the writers about. It turns out he knows he did steroids. He admitted it. It was in the Mitchell Report. He also has a sense of humor, which you could use yourself.
Put down the pinstripe pom-poms and calm down.”
Um…so SJ 44 said:
“SJ44
April 28th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Its amazing. Only some Yankee fans can downgrade their own players and pass it off as if its “objective baseball commentaryâ€.
“Wang isn’t an aceâ€, even though he is 5-0 and has been arguably the best starting pitcher in the AL this month.
Here’s what was said in the past:
“SJ44
October 5th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
I don’t think there is any debate on Joba any longer. The Yankees don’t have an ace. Joba is an ace.
Unless they trade for Johan Santana in the off-season, they need an ace. Wang is not one, nor will he ever be. Joba is.â€
So why did you downgrade “your” own player and pass it off as “objective color commentary”?
Haha; that’s creepy that you have that quote from half a year ago, but awesome at the same time. Glass houses and all!
Hmmm,
That’s when Mike Francesa went on his rant calling Melky, “a bust” and, “he can never play CF for the Yankees or anybody else”.
His fans just parroted those comments and that went on for 2 years.
I don’t know if you recall an interview Cashman did on Mike and the Mad Dog when both guys were screaming at Cashman about how bad a player Melky was and how he can’t play CF.
All because, at 21, he wasn’t Willie Mays.
How dumb do those two, and the folks who parrot everything they say, feel today.
You can go around the game (Bernie Williams was a great example that you brought up) and find guys who, if patience is exercised, become very good players.
Curtis Granderson is another guy who looked awful when he first came up. The Tigers were patient with him and he blossomed.
That’s the thing some Yankees fans are going to have a hard time handling in the next year or two. They are going with younger players and they are going to give them every chance to succeed. There will be bumps in the road but, if the players continue to work hard, you will see the fruits of their labor.
We are seeing it with Wang and Melky and that’s just the start of it within the organization.
I just came back from Charleston and there are at least 6 legitimiate, high end major league prospects on that team. Kids that if given the chance to develop, have a chance to be very, very good players.
The organization is going in the right direction. It just takes time to develop from within. That’s why patience is needed.
“Unless they trade for Johan Santana in the off-season, they need an ace. Wang is not one, nor will he ever be. Joba is”
huh. the only problem i would have with SJ saying this would be where he says “nor will he ever be”.
but i don’t think it’s a huge “gotcha” that he said Wang wasn’t an ace last year, and now he is changing his mind.
Wang has obviously changed something this year.
look at his K rate.
i don’t know if he is an “ace” or not, but he certainly looks like a pitcher who is poised to make “the leap” this year.
SJ is entitled to change his mind based on the new data we have. also, look at the date. i think we were all a little frustrated on October 5. it was the day after game 1 of the ALDS.
Wouldn’t you say, there is a big difference between October 5 and today?
I have no problems admitting I was wrong about Wang.
I don’t see how one can argue today he’s not an ace. He is and he’s pitched like one all season.
SJ – Any comments on the Charleston game last night. Another win, some more hits for the big guys. Hope Suttle is OK. Any word on Heredia or Romine?
“The organization is going in the right direction. It just takes time to develop from within. That’s why patience is needed.”
On the dark side, sure sounds like Tabata is going the wrong way. He’s badly overmatched in AA and was recently suspended for a game after a temper tantrum(wasn’t clear whether it was the EL or the organization who suspended him). Sounds like he he could be sent back to Tampa, which may be the best thing.
“I just came back from Charleston and there are at least 6 legitimiate, high end major league prospects on that team. Kids that if given the chance to develop, have a chance to be very, very good players.”
the amount of talent in Charleston is STAGGERING.
it’s hard not to be excited if you are yankee fan.
JK
April 28th, 2008 at 9:51 am
In Game 24, Pete called Vito clueless, and told Vito to “Put down his Pinstripe Pom Poms†Haha! Don Vito, you also just violated the terms of service by using crude language. That won’t get you back into Pete’s good graces.
“Don Vito:
Let’s agree on this: You have no idea whatsoever what Giami talks to the writers about. It turns out he knows he did steroids. He admitted it. It was in the Mitchell Report. He also has a sense of humor, which you could use yourself.
Put down the pinstripe pom-poms and calm down.â€
.
So in the world of the Idiots, where you live and dwell, telling someone to calm down is that same as SHUT YOUR MOUTH…..right, and I also live such a meaningless life that I remember each and every post and comment from days ago and hang on Pete’s every wish and desire. Pete is an awesome dude, but I don’t see eye to eye with him many times…it doesn’t bother me that he “calls me out” sometime and I am sure that he doesn’t get all super upset and crazy when I disagree with him. Now YOU on the other hand, need to find a hobby, because remembering the exact date and post that Pete supposedly told me to shut my mouth, is grounds for immediate nomination into the Computer Geek of the Century award….ya NN !
“Rod Barajas, Gerald Laird, Darin Erstad, Esteban German and Placido Polanco all hit HR’s off Sabathia last year.
Melky taking (specifically) Sabathia deep means absolutely nothing.”
My gosh how could Sabathia possibly give up a HR to Placido Polanco. I mean, he was only the best 2B in the AL last year, what a scrub!
This is the dumbest argument.
A-Rod
A-Jack
A-Brack
Who else?
Last year we had A-Phil at first base.
I also think we should discuss Tabata a bit. In many rankings he was 1-2 for the whole Yankee system. In virtually every one he was top 5. He is very young for his level, still recovering from the Hamate surgery (which is supposed to take some time), has hit at every level, but has had weight issues in the past, rumors about his make-up and has not started out all that well.
Does he sit a bit more after the suspension?
Does he get dropped to Tampa to get his head in the game, his wrist healed, and his bat warmed up and then brought back up in a month?
I would have thought that with Curtis and Jackson beside him, Melky playing well, Abreu in his walk year, and Damon and Matsui being old – that he would have all the motivation and encouragement to try to get to the big club.
speaking of schedules, take a look at the Yankees’ schedule.
they are having the toughest part of their schedule all season right now. the 20 straight games to start the season, 18 of 27 on the road, and now they have CLE, DET, SEA, CLE, DET, TB, NYM.
this is their toughest stretch all year. they still have the Angels later in the year, who they can’t seem to beat even if the Angels played 7 men in the field, and Boston obviously.
but besides that, the Yankees have a very nice schedule the rest of the year.
the next 3 weeks are going to test their pitching, and i am sure they will lose some games and people here will be jumping out windows, but we need to keep our eyes on the big picture.
if the Yankees can stay afloat heading into their off-day on May 19, i think we will see them make a serious run after that.
From what I heard, the injuries to Romine and Heredia aren’t too serious. Suttle? I know he came out of the game early but, I had to catch a flight so I don’t know the extent of his injury or the seriousness of it.
The thing that’s most fun about watching Charleston play is how much fun those guys have playing together. Its really a loose group. Its fun to watch.
Montero is very impressive. It doesn’t take much to see how good he is at the plate. He is so far beyond his years with a bat in his hands, its scary. Catching? A work in progress but not nearly as bad as some have portrayed him. JMO but, I would keep him behind the plate as long as I can. A kid with his power, who can also catch, becomes an invaluable commodity.
Betances is also a kid who also isn’t as advertised. Folks say he is really wild but, I didn’t see that in his start. He is around the plate a lot more than portrayed. His curveball is really good and he can throw 92-94 without much effort.
He’s very tall, so his mechanics are always in play, but he throws free and easy. It was my first time seeing him pitch. I can now see why the Yankees are so high on him.
All in all, its a really good team and kids like Almonte, Snyder, Laird and Angelini are also players to keep an eye on as the season progresses. They are showing this early in their careers, they are talented enough to move quickly through the system.
Tabata? I saw that he had a temper tantrum. I will be catching a couple of Thunder games next week and will see what the deal is with him.
He’s experiencing failure for the first time in his life. That’s the downside of being that young in a tough league like the EL.
Hopefully, he has a cooling down period and they get him back out there. If he has to go to Tampa, that wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing.
This is a game of managing emotions in order to play it well. It seems between his wrist and his struggles, he is having a tough time of it right now. Hopefully, he works it out because he has a lot of talent for such a young kid.
For all the talk of Posada and CMW, I thought one of the stories of this game was, again, the failure with RISP, particularly Arod up with 1 out and Jeter on 3rd.
Arod has said it many times before – he hits well when his stroke is shorter. In those situations, he’s got to at least make contact.
Isn’t anyone concerned that AJACK has only 3 RBI in over 100 ABS. It appears he is also overmatched at that level. We won’t see these kids playin an important role till at least 2010
hmmmm… good post, but it raises the following question:
“What exactly is a good schedule these days in the AL?”
Name me more then 3 teams the Yankees would actually look forward to playing. Tex, maybe Oakland, maybe KC? Even Baltimore has been tough, same with KC, actually. Truth is, there’s never been more parity in the league – all these teams have good enough starters now to shut down a potent offense.
Beckett may have been whining recently about the schedule, but is it really the schedule, or do these guys finally realize that the competition is greater now in the AL than it’s ever been?
#100 !!!
.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/yankees/2008/04/yanks-have-offense-to-survive.html
Good Article…maybe some fans will step away from the ledge ???
Morning all.
I have to say, it was fun waking up and then reading how everyone has been surprised by Melky.
I don’t think being surprised by his performance is that horrible a thing; when he first came up, he struggled awfully.
However, right now, he is doing absolutely everything the Yankees could ask from him, and he’s doing it for cheap, as well.
I know a lot of you guys won’t care about this, but the thing I might like most is the presence he brings to the clubhouse–even just the stuff you see on TV–he’s having fun out there, and that, in the end, is why (or should be why) you play in the first place.
SJ Thank you for the update.
The future sure does look bright. Updates from Trenton would be fantastic. Jackson seems to be really showing that his improvements are for real. Maybe you will catch a glimpse of Robertson if he is still there.
Tabata it seems was born to hit. I think if he can come around he will be much better for it.
“Name me more then 3 teams the Yankees would actually look forward to playing. Tex, maybe Oakland, maybe KC? Even Baltimore has been tough, same with KC, actually. Truth is, there’s never been more parity in the league – all these teams have good enough starters now to shut down a potent offense.”
no question. there is a ton of parity in the AL these days.
i didn’t mean to imply the rest of the season would be a cakewalk.
but when you look at the AL, the teams that jump out at you are BOS, CLE, and LAA. those are the teams that i think will be there at the end of the year. CHI are a decent team.
DET doesn’t look to me like they have the pitching, but their offense is going to tax the Yankee staff. those games are going to be tough on their bullpen.
that’s really what i meant.
the Yankees are getting a lot of those games out of the way up front.
Rebecca
Congrats on graduation. Tomorrow is my son’s LAST DAY OF CLASSES, with graduation scheduled for Saturday (Electrical Engineering). He is one very happy guy.
“Arod has said it many times before – he hits well when his stroke is shorter. ”
A-Rod’s timing still seems a bit off.
yesterday’s AB didn’t bother me too much because it really seemed like Sabathia was getting stronger as the game went on.
you could see him kick his fastball up a notch to A-Rod. he just reared back and threw 3 fastballs on the outside corner.
power vs. power, Sabathia won.
but as far as his timing is concerned, i am really talking about the AB he had on Saturday against Lewis when he fouled off about 8 pitches. he looks just a little off. he couldn’t quite square one up.
it will come.
“Name me more then 3 teams the Yankees would actually look
forward to playing.”
Texas, Oakland, Baltimore, Kansas City, Chicago, Minnesota are all pretty bad. Maybe also Seattle and Tampa.
wang’s game yesterday puts a lot of us in a good mood. it probably puts the players in a good mood too. mussina’s win this week was really big too. and hughes was looking good land he was going after hitters in his rain shortened start. melky has erased any doubts about him being the center fielder .
these are all things that can be built on. molina is fine as a catcher. they can win short term with him starting.
there are no teams without problems. this year is going to be a competition of teams in transition. all teams are in transition including the red sox. the veteran talent has been watered down by revenue sharing . all the good teams are bringing up young players to replace veterans they can’t afford anymore.
so the yankees don’t have to be great, they just have to have to be better in the transition game than the other teams. in a way there is more of a competition of management than before.
how teams already thin cover weeks when things go wrong will determine much of who comes out on top.
the red sox got the flu and dropped 5 straight games. posada is out for two weeks and molina covers. now posada is out indefinitely. how does cashman counter in getting a good back up?
bruney is gone. how many games are lost or won in the choice of the replacement? a game here and a game there is added when the gm plays out the cards right. as of right now in the schedule the yankees are positioned nicely.
You know, fact is, the worst we could possibly end April at is 13-16. Of course, the Yankees certainly don’t want to do that, but, given the schedule, that is pretty close to .500.
With the lack of pitching from anyone not named Wang, Pettitte, Joba or Mo; the injuries to Posada, Jeter, A-Rod and Molina, and the utter lack of a bullpen, it’s a semi miracle we have as many wins as we do.
That said, the schedule will get a bit lighter, and if we could tread water in April–which the Yankees are very close to doing–it bodes well for the rest of the season.
even more of a reason as to why the yankees shouldnt have traded for santana
I think someone mentioned this earlier, but I want to throw it out there as well. If Posada is going to be out a significant amount of time, I think we need to pursue Jeff Clement of the Mariners. He’s buried in AAA right now, raking, and the Mariners just signed Johjima to an extension. His lefty-pull power would be perfect for the stadium. I don’t know what it would take to get him, however. Maybe a Marquez/Gardner package. I’d have to seriously consider doing that. Clement is the same age as me and I grew up about 15 miles from where he went to HS and played college ball with two of his HS teammates. Besides being a great ballplayer, he’s a great guy and has never let success go to his head.
“Arod has said it many times before – he hits well when his stroke is shorter. In those situations, he’s got to at least make contact.”
arod has a short stroke? i like arod for his overall numbers. three run homers that take an ok lead and make it a blow out are nice too. his swing is designed for maximum run production and not for situational hitting.
maybe he thinks it would mess him up too much to do things that one could actually notice as far as shortening up his swing. he does none of the obvious things other players do to shorten his swing. yesterday, if anything, he swung harder when jeter was on third.
the most likely way for arod to have knocked jeter in would have been for jeter to have “stole” first from second base. then arod might have relaxed and done his thing.
Whozat and Fredo
I didn’t say Jeter didn’t have natural talent. I said he didn’t have the MOST natural talent as a SS. Some had more range, some had a stronger arm but Derek always seemed to have the ability to step up his game in a big spot and get it done.
Some call it baseball insticts or intangibles, I called it magic.
IMO, Melky seems to have a litle of that magic too.
rodg12: It might be a move if someone claims Moeller off waivers, but if not I think the Yankees try to get Moeller back.
Wang is not the same pitcher he was last year. In fits and starts he was tying to expand his arsenal last year but still had trouble getting outs if the sinker wouldn’t sink.
This year, he’s looked more balanced, even getting swings and misses with things other than the sinker. (Yesterday he had 9Ks!) He’s adjusted to the league’s adjustments to him and been successful and you can’t realistically ask for more than that from a pitcher. If he continues this way, he will throw a a few more pitches during a game, but he’ll get his share of Ks too and give up fewer GBs. And that makes him more like the complete and dominating pitcher everybody said he wasn’t. (And maybe less reliance on the turbo sinker will get some pressure off that finger nail he has trouble with).
Wang version ‘08 won’t go up in flames in the playoffs – that is assuming the kids can get it in gear sooner rather than later so the team gets to October. Some early run support would be a big help for IPK and Hughes.
Was Giambi traded? Sterling and Waldman said during yesterday’s broadcast at least a half dozen times that Melky leads the team in homers, with Arod and Matsui second. Today Pete said Melky leads the team with no mention of Giambi, and I went on the team site at espn.com and in the “team leaders” widget, again, Melky with no mention of Giambi.
Whom did we get back in the trade? Another first baseman?
“I think we need to pursue Jeff Clement of the Mariners. ”
Let’s find out what’s wrong with Posada first. Good chance he has nothing more than a slowly healing strain in his shoulder. We’ll see.
That said Clement would be very expensive to get. He’s generally considered to be the third best catching prospect in the minors behind Matt Weiters and Salty (and Salty should be in the majors). Catchers that can hit are few and far between – he’ll cost way more than Marquez/ Gardner.
Also the mariners big problem is that they have no offense. Yankees don’t have much in the way of power hitting prospects and I don’t think they’d deal a key piece for a AAA catcher.
Last thing on Clement as I’ve seen his name come up here – Clement is not a good defensive catcher – that’s not his strength. He also isn’t known for handling pitchers that well.
With the type of young staff the yankees have you don’t want an offense first catcher who is weaker at handling pitchers behind the plate.
That’s a lot to ask – an all rookie battery in NY. Not the way to maximize the chances of Phil and Ian having good years.
Clement is a nice prospect – but would be costly and isn’t necessarily a good fit.
Molina is the right guy for this staff. They are very lucky they traded for him last year.
Murphydog couldn’t agree with you more about run support for those 2 kids, it’s much easier to pitch with 2 or 3 run lead. This offense has been putrid…… don’t think that isn’t on the minds of these kids when they go out there knowing if the give up a couple early they probably won’t have a chance to win. I think it’s time to put a curfew on Cano he just does not have the maturity to handle the big league life. Joe T had to reign him in last year, Joe G is going to have assign a big brother to him.
apparently Stewart is solid defensively and can throw out baserunners. he shouldn’t be playing that often, so he should be sufficient in the short-term.
if Posada needs surgery, it’s a different story.
cb or sj-
probably a crazy question , but what about trading the charleston catching prospect with other players added on to get clement. the mariners still have a catching prospect, just delayed a few years which wouldn’t matter because they set at catcher right now.
i’m not advocating this, just wondering the pros and cons of it.
“maybe people are too young to remember Bernie when he came up with his goofy glasses and didn’t play like an all-star for a few years”
Sorry, I just saw this now, but I do remember those big goofy glasses. I have some baseball cards with him wearing them. He looked awful, I’m really glad he got contacts.
But onto your real point, yes, there needs to be patience with the kids. However, in some cases, they may need a little more seasoning down in the minors. Melky had to get sent down in ‘05, but when he came back, he was a completely different player. Right now though, Kennedy and Hughes have shown enough to say, let’s give them a few more starts. Outside of that one inning, Kennedy was pretty good. I think he gets flustered a bit, not unlike Mussina, when he gives up some cheap hits. Hughes didn’t get to complete his chance at redemption unfortunately, because of the rain, but I’m looking forward to his next start.
CB or SJ – I know we don’t know how long Posada will be out but saw this in todays NY Post:
Mike DiFelice is at Durham (Rays’ Triple-A team) and has
an out in his contract if he gets a major league offer.
Josh Paul is catching for Round Rock (Astros’ Triple-A
squad)
Would either of these catchers be a better back-up to Molina than Stewart?
“Right now though, Kennedy and Hughes have shown enough to say, let’s give them a few more starts.”
I agree, give them some more time, especially Hughes. I could see them sending Kennedy down if he has a bad outing this week but I think Hughes will be given a longer leash. I think there is a good chance that both guys will have quality starts next time out; they both showed signs of improvement in their last outings.
No way do you trade Montero. He is a tremendous prospect with his bat. SJ said that it is possible he can stay at C, which makes him an umbelievable prospect. If he continues to mash, he may be one of the top prospects in all of baseball in the next one to two years.
See what is up with Posada first. Molina is probably the best backup in the game. There are several options to spell Molina’s backup for awhile.
“probably a crazy question , but what about trading the charleston catching prospect with other players added on to get clement.”
randy, are you talking about Montero or Romine?
b/c the Yankees are not trading going to trade Montero.
by the end of the year, he is going to be skyrocketing up everyone’s prospect lists.
i don’t know the last Yankee prospect with his offensive potential, i guess Nick Johnson.
Yeah, if Kennedy has a poor outing this next time out, they may very likely send him down. If Hughes has a rough outing, I think they’ll give him another. The problem is, who will we replace two starters in our rotation? Rasner? He’s been pitching well, but I think he struggles from the same thing Kennedy does. Do you bring back Igawa? Unless they make a trade, I really don’t see who they replace them with.
Bring Back Fasano!!!!
Why would anyone want to trade Montero? SMH
“probably a crazy question , but what about trading the charleston catching prospect with other players added on to get clement. the mariners still have a catching prospect, just delayed a few years which wouldn’t matter because they set at catcher right now.
i’m not advocating this, just wondering the pros and cons of it.”
more cons than pros, Romine and Montero have too much upside to trade, especially Jesus.
“Why would anyone want to trade Montero?”
to be fair, he was just asking a question…
randy,
When thinking about any kind of deal with Seattle this is how i see it.
This winter they traded a ton of talent for Eric Bedard, including Adam Jones one of the 10 best minor league prospects in the game.
You make that move – you are trying to win now. And that’s still Seattle’s plan (and what they told Ichiro before resigning him last year).
Clement is probably their best prospect now. They’ve invested a lot in him. He was a top 5 draft pick with a big singing bonus.
If you’re trying to win now you are not going to trade your best prospect for other minor leaguers, and definitely not for lower minor leaguers.
This is Clements third season in AAA (they tried to fast track him to AAA in 2006 – pushed him too hard and he’s stayed in AAA since). He is off to a torrid start.
To trade for Clement I’d guess Seattle would be more interested in Hideki Matsui than Austine Romine.
Clement does not have a good arm and there always been rumblings on him that he might switch positions. Given how good he has been with the bat at AAA – perhaps the Mariners will give him a shot at DH or 1st base. Sexson is having yet another horrible season.
I don’t see a fit with the yankees.
Fran,
Both DeFelice and Paul are similar type players and have more experience than Stewart (DeFelice in particular). None can hit and DeFelice is 39 – I don’t know if they want a backup who is 3 years older than Posada.
If they can’t get Moeller back Paul would be fine but in this kind of situation the other team will likely ask for more than Paul is worth.
It’s a good idea. For right now give Stewart a crack. Paul’s not very good either.
We’ll make do with Molina and a backup. Hopefully we get Moehler back, if not, they should just go to Puerto Rico and sign the first switch hitting catcher they run into. I don’t know what it is about that island, but they produce a lot of switch-hitting catchers.
I didn’t see it on TV. So Melky pulled a little Manny on his HR?
“Melky Being Melky?”
Nah … Nobody could compare to Manny.
Melky WAS over his head when he came up. He’s evolving. He’s still only 23 and becoming a pretty solid player. I, for one, am glad he wasn’t part of a Santana trade package. Ditto for Hughes and Kennedy.
Anyways, lots of people didn’t think Wang was an ‘ace’ last year. This year it’s turning out to be different. I wonder, let’s say if he loses 5 or 6 games this year, how many people will be saying he’s not an ace for several days after each loss.
The whole thing last year about him being an ace or not had to do with one or two playoff performances. I thought it was kind of foolish because, as many pointed out, he’d won more games than anyone else over 2 years. That’s including Johan Santana, who’d been touted by some as the best pitcher going and by some others as among the best ever.
Never mind that ‘ace’ Santana’s teams haven’t made the world series either.
Never mind that Josh Beckett and Santana have had some struggles, perhaps at least as many as Wang, but people still consider either of them ‘ace’ when they’re off his game or injured. Not saying that to take away from either of them … just saying to cut the Wanger some slack if he isn’t perfect every day.
Greg Maddux’ teams only won one world series. He lost a few playoff games himself. So the guy must have always been terrible and never an ‘ace’, right?
When Bob Gibson’s ERA was 1.12 in ‘68, he had a few games where he gave up a 4+ runs. Did Cardinals’ fans back then scream for him to be traded or for the team to seek out a ‘true ace’ on the days he lost?
Wang’s still relatively new to the big leagues. Give him a few years to evolve, and he will win (and yes lose) playoff games in the future. He’s the best we have right now. He has to take the role of the team’s ace, do the best he can with it. Will there be other guys out there having better days? Sometimes yes.
Back to Hughes and Kennedy. They will get there. Considering what the team could look like in 2 years, I’m glad neither was traded for Santana along with Melky.
Yes, Kennedy looks a little over his head right now but that’s no reason to give up on him. Does he need a few weeks or months in the minors? Maybe. Will he become an ‘ace’? Probably not (although that’s not to say it’s impossible) but he will most likely be at least a pretty good pitcher. And if a pretty good pitcher is the 3rd or 4th best pitcher on the team, that’s a piece a pretty good team.
I think in a couple years we may be saying Kennedy (and to an extent Hughes) were over their heads or needed a little polishing when they came up but that we’re glad the team stuck with them.
Like Melky.
And like Wang and Cano.
And like Posada, Rivera, Pettitte and Jeter before them. OK well maybe not Jeter. When he came up he was ready.
And on being able to re-sign A-Rod.
And Giambi and Pavano.
… just kidding on the last two.
Sj thanks for the charleston update.
Wang ot me is avery good pitcher but he is not a lockdown starter etc.
Butthe reality is there are 4 or so of these guys in baseball.
Melky is a GOOD player. He is younger then the great ellsbury. Melky will be a good everyday player probably for 10 more yrs., that is real good news for the yanks. Let’s be honest, dimaggio, mantle, bernie they c=got lucky with there CF’s for almost 50 yrs more or less.
the yankee problems are not that complicated; Sp better and longer outings and the 6th and 7th inning relief.
I believe the hitting will be top 5 in baseball and therefore if they can pitch and field and manufacture few runs here and there they will be a 90+ win team…
I read good things about Chris Stewert, it seems he’s a better hitter and in 06′ was known as a running game stopper, if he brings his .300/.404/…. to the ML this will be a damn good back up. now if he can slug .450 – 500 that would be just lovely.
Stewart has 23 games of Major League experience in the last two seasons with the White Sox and Rangers, batting .200 in 45 at-bats. ….maybe something clicked because in AAA he is batting .300/.404/.375 and an OPS of .779 remember Moeller came to us w/ the clips of .136/.231/.182 and an OPS of .413
CB
April 28th, 2008 at 11:14 am
“I think we need to pursue Jeff Clement of the Mariners. â€
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - -
Yes CB and so does Boston want him among other teams. Knowing the Yankees have a need will cause the Mariners to want a king’s ransom such as high end prospects like McCutchen for example.
The Yankees can deal with less of a bat with catching if only A-Rod and Cano can start carrying some load for the team.
Anybody see Cashman trying to make a trade with Matsui? It seems like a logjam in LF and the Yanks could certainly rest other players in the DH role (Posada. If Matsui goes, there are reliable options in the minors should Damon need some time.
CB:
That’s why I prefaced my “I think we need to pursue Jeff Clement” comment with “If Posada is out a significant amount of time.” If Posada is out only a month or so, I have no problem scrapping by with Molina and Stewart/Moeller as our catchers in the interim. All are good defensively and appear to be pretty good handling a staff (especially Molina). However, if Posada is out longer than that, I think we have to look into getting a better option than Stewart/Moeller. I’m not convinced Molina can hold up for a long period of time as the everyday catcher (I would advocate catching him no more than 4-5 days a week). In that situation, I think a move would be warranted.
As far as Clement goes, he was someone I threw out there (mainly because he is blocked by Johjima, has a legit ML bat, and I’ve followed his career since HS). I know he has his defensive shortcomings and the offer I put out there was probably wishful thinking (it will in all likelihood take more than that to get him, although it is Seattle who traded Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez
). But, if Posada would be out for more than a month, I think we need to make a move to get a better alternative to Stewart/Moeller. He would be a nice get, but there are other options as well – Laird, maybe Paulino in Pittsburgh, etc.
Keep melky – he has adopted ARods workout routine and his early stats equate to beltran — my bad for thinking he was expendable in a trade for Santana
But GRT RID OF GIRARDI – he does not have a clue
He could have made Sat a 1 Run game in the 9th — so here is what he said about yesterday’s 1 run game — in the NY Post
Manager Joe Girardi said it’s important to win the tight, low-scoring games.
“You need to win games like this because the offense isn’t always going to score runs,” Girardi said. “(Wang) had a very good slider and a changeup he threw to lefties.”
DUH – evry game counts –
Why don’t we just get Mirabelli?
Kidding.
“The Yankees can deal with less of a bat with catching if only A-Rod and Cano can start carrying some load for the team.”
A-Rod: .292/.344/.506
Jeter: .280/.302/.366
just sayin’….
IDK to let go of Matsui now ?
maybe if it brings Morrow and Clement I’d think about it
.321/.430/.526
“i don’t know the last Yankee prospect with his offensive potential, i guess Nick Johnson.”
hmmm,
I agree with you. Quite honestly, I don’t know if the organization has had a prospect with Montero’s upside over the past 30 years.
The only other guy has been Jeter. And with Jeter what made him such a good prospect was his overall tools.
Just in terms of having a pure bat this good – not just a guy with a lot of athleticism (Ruben Rivera,etc.) – Montero is the best the Yankees have had in generations.
rodg12 since the offseason I’ve been asking for Ronny Paulino from Pitt I like his upside maybe Betemit, White & Veras lands him in NY his slugging is down this year but his OBP % is still good.
“But GRT RID OF GIRARDI – he does not have a clue”
this is embarrassing.
26 games.
that’s what Girardi gets to prove himself?
i think he blew it on Saturday as well, not going to sugar coat that. he made a wrong decision.
let’s see how he learns from it.
“Just in terms of having a pure bat this good – not just a guy with a lot of athleticism (Ruben Rivera,etc.) – Montero is the best the Yankees have had in generations.”
yup. we are talking a Pujols-type ceiling.
“Anybody see Cashman trying to make a trade with Matsui?”
I find it really perplexing why there are so many yankee fans who see Matsui as some kind of spare part, just another extra piece in a “log jam” of position players.
Year in and year out he is one of the best left fielders in the game.
He is not slowing down or getting old – last year he was playing through torn cartilage.
It is very, very difficult to find a corner outfield bat or to find a DH who can put up the kind of production matsui can.
Last year, in an off season marred by that knee injury, he had the third highest OBP, second highest slugging percentage, and the second highest OPS of any left fielder in the AL.
Do you think those kinds of players just grow on trees?
And this year after the operation his knee looks good and he’s having an all star type season.
And finally – he’s not nearly as bad a defensive left fielder as people make him out to be.
He could play in left field everyday and he’d be fine there.
Thanks for this post, Melky is so underrated and is seldomly given the credit he deserves!
Jeff Clement is not a good defensive catcher. In fact, he’s well below average.
Catcher is a valuable commodity in the game today. Those guys don’t come cheap. Teams hold out for big parts if they are going to deal young catchers. Even average to below average young catchers.
If you are talking prospects, you are talking McCutcheon, Melancon, Betances level prospects to get a guy like Clement. I’d pass.
A player whom, you may have to move to first base soon because he’s not good defensively.
I wouldn’t trade Romine for him. Romine is already a better defensive catcher than Clement. He’s just not ready offensively as of yet.
If Moeller clears waivers, the Yankees will have him back in 7-10 days to back up Molina. That should suffice for now.
If they don’t like Chris Stewart as a backup, I’d go and get DeFellice. For a short period, he’s a guy who can call a great game, a good catch and throw guy, and would serve the purpose in the short term. FWIW, James Shields and Edwin Jackson raved about DeFellice’s work with them in Tampa.
Provided of course, they lose Moeller.
Even if Posada were to miss a big chunk of the season, I’d wouldn’t look to make a panic trade.
This is like two years ago when they lost both Sheffield and Matsui. You bide your time with internal solutions unless the right situation comes along.
For all we know, Posada could be out a month and come back 100%. Until we hear a firm diagnosis, its impossible to know what you are dealing with re: his injury.
“Year in and year out he is one of the best left fielders in the game.”
Actually, he’s a lousy left fielder who hits well. Can’t argue with his production, but he’s never been one of the best LF’s in the game. He’s below average there on his good days and downright disasterous on his not so good days.
Still, I’d want his bat in my lineup.
Austin Jackson cannot choose his own nickname; that is the province of the beat writers and/or Chris Berman.
With Johjima (sp?) recently extended, the M’s are already switching Clement’s position. It’ll either be 1B or DH, both roles he could probably fill right now with better results than the current occupants. He was never a very good catcher anyway, but he’s proven all he can in AAA. Doesn’t fit the Yanks at all. With Bam Bam Duncan up, they are carrying three guys who can’t adequately field a position.
Actually, according to ESPN’s zone rating list, Matsui was 4th among qualified (with respect to games played?) AL left fielders last year
I am so glad the Yankees did not trade Melky away for Santana. The kids are showing promise and Melky’s enthusiasm and camaraderie is definitely needed to help get Cano out of his slump.
As far as the Wang ace argument? Dude is an ace no question. To go pitch for pitch against C.C. was a thing of beauty. He is 5-0 and is getting a lot more SO’s and swings and misses this year, and he is still young and getting better.
sj44-
so is montero’s bat as good as hmmm and cb are saying? i remember watching frank thomas in the cape league at orleans and he was a man among boys. does montero hit you like that? from what i remember about your observations over the weekend i think you said something in that direction.
I, for one, don’t want to see Matsui traded.
He’s hitting just about as well as before his wrist or knee injuries and is a therefore a much better option at DH than Giambi. He’s not back to 100% with his running since the knee but speaking as someone who’s had a ’scope job done, he just can’t be 100% yet. From where he is now (95%? 98%?) he’ll gradually get the last bit back. His arm is better than Damon (who’s been on a mini-tear since his awful start) and he isn’t as bad defensively as some people say. He may not be an all-star anymore but I think he can still be a good LF again. For now he’s doing fine at DH, lets see how things go from there. Eventually platoon LF w/Damon who often gets hurt? Maybe.
I see those who want to dump Matsui the same way I see those who think Wang is useless on the days he doesn’t win 1-0 games. Morons.
Bart – Get rid of Girardi? You MUST be kidding, right? Were you one of the chicken littles who thought he should be drawn, quartered, impailed then fired simply based on his final opening day selection for the last bullpen slot out of spring training?
“Actually, he’s a lousy left fielder who hits well. ”
You are wrong.
Last year Matsui, on a very bad knee, had the highest zone rating of any left fielder in baseball and 4th highest zone rating of any left fielder in all of baseball.
Those are the facts.
And my comment was referring to his overall value – offensive and defensive.
Randy,
I saw Arod, Miguel Cabrera and Vlad Guerrero when they were 17 years old. All three of those guys were amazingly advanced from a hitting standpoint. The ball sounded different when it came off their bats. Even at that young age.
Montero is in that class. He’s that good with a bat in his hands. He’s a manchild offensively.
He’s not Arod at that age. Arod is the best 17 year old hitter I have ever seen. He is in Cabrera’s and Vlad’s class at that age.
He’s an amazing young hitter. To think, he won’t be 19 until late November. Its scary how good he can be.
Basically, we are talking about a high school senior (age-wise) playing in A ball and dominating with the bat. That’s rarified air.
It really makes no sense to trade Matsui. He’s been their best hitter to start the season.
Trade him for what, a backup catcher? No way.
“give them (Hughes and Kennedy) a few more starts”??
I don’t think there’s any way around that, for better or worse. We made the decision during the off season not to deal them, so now they are ours and in the rotation, barring injury, for the rest of the year. I don’t see how each of them don’t get 25+ starts apiece. I personally like them both, and I think Hughes is going to be a good ML pitcher, and Kennedy has a shot at the same, but that’s basically it. We’ve made our bed with these guys and have to accept the results. I hope Hughes and Kennedy do well, but remember their age, and I tend to think that more average (read: .500) numbers are more likely for them.
You are wrong.
“Last year Matsui, on a very bad knee, had the highest zone rating of any left fielder in baseball and 4th highest zone rating of any left fielder in all of baseball.
Those are the facts.
And my comment was referring to his overall value – offensive and defensive.”
Don’t buy it. Zone rating, range factor. All crap. You can see with your eyes. Bad routes, less than stellar arm, no speed, and no accident he’s the favored DH.
“Don’t buy it. Zone rating, range factor. All crap. You can see with your eyes.”
You do know that zone rating is calculated by people reviewing where every ball is hit and charting it, don’t you?
It’s all people “looking with their eyes” and marking down whether or not a fielder got to a ball most other fielders at that position get to.
sj-
that’s pretty exciting then from a yankees standpoint. from a pure baseball standpoint it’s exciting to see any young player that good.
i wonder if it wouldn’t be a good idea right from the beginning to teach him both positions of catcher and first baseman. you never know what;s going to happen with a catcher’s arm and it gives flexibility once he gets to the majors.
looking at the example of clement, maybe if he would have worked out and played at first in the low minors the transition would be smoother now. players who can play two positions are even more valuable.
Its kind of hard to do at the minor league level. Ideally, if you want to keep him behind the plate, he needs as many reps as possible as a catcher.
Even his non-game work (drills, throws, etc) needs to be at catcher at A ball.
Until Romine got hurt, they had a good situation in Charleston. Both guys divided the roles of catcher and DH. Right now, Montero is catching every day.
If I was the farm director, based on what I saw this weekend (admittedly, not a large sample size), I keep him at catcher until I absolutely, positively have to move him.
And I pray I don’t have to move him! lol
His potential as a power hitting catcher is off the charts.
If, say by September 2009, he’s so dominating with the bat and you think he can help you, the Yankees could concievably call him up to DH.
But, that’s getting WAY ahead of ourselves.
For now, I’d just keep him behind the plate and hope his learning curve continues.
“Basically, we are talking about a high school senior (age-wise) playing in A ball and dominating with the bat. That’s rarified air.”
To be fair most 19 year olds are freshman or sophomores in college. Also, who knows if Montero really IS 19? Thats completely besides the point though, Montero is ridiculous.
Ask, the indians if Wang is an ace. If still not satisfied ask Sabathia. No one can honestly believe wangs perfomance was a fluke.Yes, he had his A game yesterday, and no he won’t always have it. His career stats suggest he can and does win when he isn’t his best. That is aceey.
Cabrera is hitting .291 and leads the team with five home runs, three fewer then he hit all last season.
THAN -fewer THAN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Zone rating is decent… FRAA is better. IIRC Matsui was -6 or -7 in FRAA last year. Not terrible, but nothing special. The knee undoubtedly had an impact defensively, so adjust for that and he’s probably an average defensive left fielder.
“Meant something yesterday. Granted it was an 85 MPH breaking pitch or cutter that didn’t move, but it surely did mean something.”
It means nothing in regard to melky’s power.
“My gosh how could Sabathia possibly give up a HR to Placido Polanco. I mean, he was only the best 2B in the AL last year, what a scrub!
This is the dumbest argument.”
he has 72 HR’s over 1200 games in his career.
My point was that even people without power hit HR’s off big time pitchers. So if you do hit a HR off a big time pitcher, it doesnt mean anything in regard to the level of the power. If you understood baseball, you’d probably know that.
I haven’t read all these posts but wanted to echo the following statement from the very first post in this thread:
“Melky Cabrera, as I’ve said before, might be the most underrated player on the Yankees.”
I’ve been saying that for a long-time as well. Melky is well-known now for the “energy he brings” to the team, but his defense is under-rated and his bat is continuing to evolve, as is his power. He’s on his way to 30+ HR’s and whether he gets there or just gets to 20 or so, he and Robbie will eventually both be 30 HR guys.