Today in The Journal News
-
- May
- 2
Ian Kennedy struggled again and the Yankees fell to the Tigers. Brian Heyman has the story.
Phil Hughes would be out two months as it was learned he has a cracked rib.
Bobby Murcer will be back in the booth tonight. The notebook also has an update on Jorge Posada.
This entry was posted
on Friday, May 2nd, 2008 at 3:15 am by Peter Abraham.
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Hey Pete- you indicate elswhere that Hughes has had bad luck regarding his injuries. Are you kidding? This guy is as brittle as a potato chip.Being injured 4 seasons out of 5, has nothing to do with luck,this kid has some serious physical limitations, period! How in the world Cashman could dare open a seasonwith 2 unproven kid pitchers with a team that was supposed to battle for a World Series is beyond me. That’s the type of decision teams like Pitt,KC, the Os,etc. make. Not the Yankees…Year after year I watch the once greatest franchise in baseball get further and further away from a championship, yet Cashman keeps on ticking like the bunny in the battery commercial. Incredible.
They have to start sometime, or we’ll never develop the kind of pitching that a championship team has. You can’t find out whether a pitcher is a bust without starting them, can you? It really is a crapshoot, as much as we might believe otherwise. Either way you look at it, these experiments with Hughes and Kennedy are ultimately good for the team long-term. We can start moving on to other players.
I disagree completely. There s nothing wrong with starting 1 young unproven pitcher, but 2 is a huge mistake. Look, if Cashman had a veteran #4 starter with Hughes #5,he could have brought up Kennedy…Yanks will suffer with this philosophy.
Yankess will be swept again if CM Win can’t win in the first place.
Erik Bedard, LHP (2-0, 2.04)
Felix Hernandez, RHP (2-1, 2.22)
Carlos Silva, RHP (3-0, 2.79)
“Erik Bedard, LHP (2-0, 2.04)
Felix Hernandez, RHP (2-1, 2.22)
Carlos Silva, RHP (3-0, 2.79)”
↑WOW…Wang better pitch a CG tonight.
Santana lives across the street and our boy Brian is to blame.
With Alex and Jorge out again I believe that we indeed can and probably should expect another 2 or three losses. It’s funny that last year I thought it couldn’t get worse than Tyler Clippard and Cano not hitting…etc..
Well..
This is worse this Hughes thing is heart breaking.
Somebody wake me up in August.
Phil Pavano?
At this pace… Hughes will break Pavano’s DL record by the time he’s 24.
Yankee fans are saying this is a second half team. That may be right, but we better start realizing Tampa, Toronto, Boston are all better teams this year. There pitching staffs are better than the Yankees. The Yankees position players are getting old. Abreu looked terrible in the field last night. He is a afraid of getting near the wall. Damon can’t throw. Giambi is long past prime. And contrary to all the Melky fans he is no Bernie Williams and never will be.
This team is sliding and has a great possibility of finishing fourth this year.
If Cashman had traded Hughes AND Kenned during the off-season (which is what many teams were asking for!), everyone would have lambasted him for giving up on the “youth movement” and, there go the Yankees, selling the farm again.
There will never be a moment when everyone is satisfied. And it is really interesting to read about the fantasy trades that ignore the reality of what Cashman had to deal with - from players with large N/T contracts to GMs asking for the moon in exchange for one of their players and everything in between. It’s also amusing that anyone believes that had even a shard of the information that Cashman and his team had in formulating what plans they had for the kids and for trades and free agent signings. There’s also a lot of short-term memory loss and revisionist history going on as well.
Look, the Yankees are playing poorly, and nothing - NOTHING - has gone as hoped. Not only has it not been the best-case scenario, but it’s truly turned into the worst-case scenario. I don’t believe anyone foresaw ARod and Posada, two stalwarts who play through minor injuries all the time, going down with major injuries. I don’t think anyone foresaw that Hughes and Kennedy - who both pitched very impressively at the end of last season (very impressively) - not being able to match that this month. Sometimes, things just happen.
The Yankees are fortunate that the rest of the league, the rest of their division, are kind of spotting them some time by virtue of the fact that most of the them have their own troubles. Because of this, the Yankees CAN do some scrambling now and try to figure some things out in-house to get them through to when Posada and ARod are back in the line-up. It sounds like Kennedy may escape AAA and be allowed to remain up here to work on things because of less of a need for that 5th starter in May. I think he’ll work it out. Maybe I’m stupid, but I didn’t think he did all that badly last night. He will figure it out.
Finally, many people here, before the season started, said they were willing to go through the growing pains, even if it meant missing the playoffs for the first time in a long time, if it meant that the Yankees were finally developing their own players, because in the long-term, the team would be a contender for years to come. But some people are now quickly abandoning their faith because so far, for a month, it hasn’t gone so smoothly. I know the youngsters haven’t been lights out (understatement), but with a few well-placed hits, they could have avoided being winless. The real problem here is the offense sputtering.
I think Giambi’s trial as everyday 1B should be over. How much worse off can the Yankees be giving Duncan a shot?
Is there any reason not to move Joba to the rotation from the bully at this point? What difference does having a great 1-2 closing punch make if your starters put you in a 5-6 run hole as often as ours do? And as badly as the Hughes/Kennedy/Santana situation appears now, its still way too soon to evaluate the no-trade. Santana signed a long-term contract and Hughes and Kennedy are in their early 20’s. We really have to give the whole thing a few years to develop until we can see whether we made the right decision.
Doreen:
Whatever you put in your coffee this morning, I want some
Sane, sound reflections. This is indeed a worst case scenario and Cashman is dead on: other teams have to go through this. It doesn’t matter who the owner, GM or skipper are, regardless of trades made or foregone, growing pains are sometimes difficult to bear, but how else do you mature?
Too many present day Yankee fans just don’t remember back far enough to understand how the team got to this point. Giambi’s contract should be reminder enough. Simply put, the chickens have come home to roost. Revenue sharing, luxury tax and fate have put an end to the old Steinbrenner way.
Despite all that, even without A-Rod and Po, the offense let Robertson escape instead of finishing him off. (How many men left on base last night?) And Abreu still makes every fly ball to right an adventure. Does IPK straighten out if Abreu doesn’t misplay that first fly ball to RF? And IMO, the second one Abreu most definitely should have caught. Tough play but he was turned around and missed it.
Doreen -
You’ve written a very good article about the state of the Yankees today. Unfortunately many on this blog are newbies who have come to the Yankees during the Jeter Era - starting in 1995. Their baseball knowledge is as limited as their perspective.
As always, part of the Yankees difficulties come from the half truths that come out of the Tampa/New York dichotomy - with each trying to place blame for the bad stuff on the other, and take credit for the good.
Other problems are from MLB itself and the players union which has allowed salaries to soar and never lets a player face the consequences of their actions. This explains, Giambi, Damon, Clemens, etc. who all received financial rewards way beyond reason.
There is also a Commissioner - Bud Selig - who should never have risen to that position and has been the weakest commissioner ever re: Steroids and HGH, and recently announced that no one would be held accountable for their use.
There are also the money hungry teams who continue to raise prices for everything from tickets to ice cream in order to support the high style of living of their players, owners and staff while their fans are increasingly finding it harder to afford to take their children to the games. This will lead to fewer regular fans in the future where these new stadia will be filled with corporate members and such.
Yet, those of us who have loved baseball since our childhood, introduced by a parent or grandparent to the Grand Old Game, can rely on our memories. Some even prefer the calmness of radio broadcasts instead of the noise and advertising blasts that come forth on TV and in person at the ballpark.
There are a few players who still play an old fashioned game and they are truly wonderful to see. I see Derek Jeter, introduced to baseball by his Grandmother, raised by parents to respect the rules, play every game to the very best of his ability. Derek Jeter is a once in a lifetime player who puts his team ahead of himself and makes the whole game better.
No, the game isn’t better than ever, but some of it is still as good as it was.
murphydog –
I used to be very defensive of Abreu’s play in right field, but last night was pretty bad. Unless the wind was playing tricks on the ball, and I don’t think it was, he really does look like he doesn’t like the wall. He does so many other things well, I hated when people killed him because of his “reluctance” when confronted with “the wall.” Both he and Damon misplayed balls last night that, while they were still hit, don’t they tell pitchers, don’t be afraid to let them hit the ball, that’s why you have 7 guys out there? Kennedy made a couple of mistakes, true, but he threw some strikes that were hit and his outfield let him down.
And I can see, at that point, Kennedy figuring he’s got to be finer, and then getting into even more trouble.
Back in the day, George would have said that Kennedy is not “mentally tough” and he “spit the bit”.
Evidence shows that the sons are not of the same mindset but they may be [thinking] in those terms with Kennedy and possibly Hughes.
It shouldn’t be a surprise that Cashman is told not to be concerned that Hughes and Kennedy would have been part of a Santana package. The fact is, with the youth of Hughes and the relative inexperience of Kennedy, projections were too soon and Plan B is to be implemented.
These are not the Texas Rangers where young pitching can be sent out to get pounded and see how much can to taken. The Yankees have options to use.
If you’re the GM in Minnesota - you got to be grinning right now.
Holy crap. Now Phil is the new Pavano? God bless Yankee fans.
Doreen-Well Said.
I also didn’t think Ian was as horrible as he is being portrayed to have been last night. If a couple of balls were caught, maybe things would have been different. Yes, he made mistakes, but he wasn’t the only one. Maybe it’s just me.
Look, this past month sucked.
Injuries, the kids struggled/are struggling, the offense has disappeared, cold weather, so many games on the road and just some bad luck.
It has sucked and we will survive.
Tonight is Wang. Will we be able to score more than 2 runs? That’s my main question.
Every day that goes by, the Yankees are one day closer to ridding themselves of Giambi, Farnsworth, and Pavano contracts.
Mussina is a different situation. He knows in his own mind that this is his final year and will at least grind it out for all that his remaining ability allows him to do. It’s just the professionalism he has.
“And I can see, at that point, Kennedy figuring he’s got to be finer, and then getting into even more trouble.”
Yup. Trying to do too much. IPK and Hughes already feel the spotlight on them. It doesn’t take much more to get them to start overthrowing or trying to nick corners in a misguided attempt to pick up their team mates. In a funny way, their sense that if they try harder they can do better is really a sign of their confidence in their abilities and desire to win. But nothing can prepare them for the relentlessness at this level where umpires give a rook a tight strike zone and hitters don’t miss mistakes.
MLB experience is the only cure for IPK and Hughes. There’s nothing AAA hitters can teach them that they don’t already know. Confidence can be re-built at SWB, but at some point they have to take their lumps.
Yankee fans just don’t realize what they are looking at since it’s been so long since they saw a rookie pitcher take his first steps. I guess we have to be patient with both the kid pitchers and the unaware fans.
Jeez,
Where were all these Negative Nancies this winter?
Did they think that Hughes and Kennedy were going to throw their gloves out on the mound and immediately be CY Young candidates?
It is depressing to read all the negative, doom and gloom pronuciations from people who either don’t follow the team very closely, or have unrealistic expectations based on the successes of the past 12 years.
You know, it’s not a given that your team makes the playoffs every year. Sometimes you have to take a step back to go forward.
Even if that is the case for the Yankees this year (and I am not saying it is), it will not be long before they return to supremacy. The pieces are falling into place.
Yikes..
Well, I’m glad some people figured out that there will always be people that find something to complain and second guess about.
Theres no doubt the Yankees are in a rough patch here.. And it’s depressing… But pulling through this kind of thing is what makes a team strong.
The Yankees started off the year, alternating Wins and Losses…then started this “streak” thing where the wins AND losses are always coming in 2 or more in a row….Let’s get us a 6 game winning streak…then put all of our negativity in a drawer for the rest of the season. We can get through this. With A-Rod & Posada coming back…plus putting Joba in the rotation and finding that this year Rasner DOES have the stuff to make it with the Yankees, we will be fine !!!
How About : ???
Wang
Andy
Joba
Mussina
Rasner
and see how THAT flies for a bit, huh ???
Sure, maybe Moose and Rasner only give you a good outing 50% of the time,,,but with the 3 above them knocking them dead….and the hitting starting to MASH…we can be the team that the fans are looking for …STILL !!!
“MLB experience is the only cure for IPK and Hughes. There’s nothing AAA hitters can teach them that they don’t already know. Confidence can be re-built at SWB, but at some point they have to take their lumps.”
murphydog -
That’s exactly what I think. They can send Kennedy down, but he’s never going to be facing the types of hitters and the intensity of situations that he faces on the ML level. So, pray tell, how does a person learn to work through something when the opportunities for facing those situations are lessened? Really, the same with Hughes. And I also think in light of his injury, all the criticism with regard to Hughes’ “mental” preparedness needs to be revisited, at least to some degree.
It was a huge leap of faith that the organization took with regard to Hughes and Kennedy. But one of the things that convinced them that these two could handle it was their approach, their demeanor, and the sense that even from the start the two of them looked and felt as if they belonged. Everyone praised their poise. Everyone talked (wrote) about how Hughes looked like a rookie for about one inning last year, and then got down to business.
I think the confluence of a bunch of different variables have served to work against both of them and the team as a whole. The weak offense, the injuries, the schedule and even the weather have been worse than most people could ever anticipate. How many sunny, fair days have the Yankees had the opportunity to play? Most days have been cold & rainy. Two days off since the beginning of the season and it’s already May. Other teams have had similar circumstances, but the Yankees have had them all and to the nth degree, it seems.
They say what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, and, “they’re not dead yet,” so…..
Wow this place has turned into a cesspool. Good news when the Yankees start winning and they will it will return to normal.
I loved the fans that were all: “Yanks will win at least 2/3 against the Tigers” with their obvious problems. When you have a team hitting like the Yanks and your rotation has 2 under-par pitchers going in the series, it’s a bit unrealistic.
That being said, I like our chances better this upcoming series with Wang, Moose, and Rasner. But will we see more 3 pts per game average? Probably.
“Stark talked to an official from a “pitching-starved” team. This person said the Giants would have to eat at least $80MM of Barry Zito’s remaining $112.5MM if they want to trade him. One scout suggested Zito’s only chance at revival is a reunion with Rick Peterson.” - mlbtraderumors
Ding ding. 32.5 million for zito? Fire Eiland (the kids are no longer a factor) and bring in Peterson. Worth a shot
“Sure, maybe Moose and Rasner only give you a good outing 50% of the time,,,but with the 3 above them knocking them dead….and the hitting starting to MASH…we can be the team that the fans are looking for …STILL !!!”
Wonder whether Pettitte can be counted on for better than 50/50. At 36, he’s getting on in years and the early returns to me are slightly disconcerting. League is always going to hit around .290 off of him and he won’t strike a lot of guys out, but that’s always been the case with him. But most recently, he’s been spotted leads and lost them in games where they really needed wins. That is NOT Andy Pettitte. 6 starts so far and he’s really only been good in 3 of them.
THe thing that upsets me the most is not the struggles of the kids, although it isn’t easy to watch. It is the lack of hitting, we’ve had a few games where we’ve had plently of chances to win, even when the pitcher dug us a hole, but they couldn’t get the big hit. OR we’ve had chances such as last night to put the pitcher away and didn’t.
My company got some Yankee tickets for last night’s game, and the lucky ones who got them were all crying and moaning about how the season is over and what a fiasco our young pitchers are and blah, blah…
I couldn’t believe that they had prime tickets to Yankee stadium and all they could do was complain about the team. Meanwhile, I bought tickets for my family and I for last Monday’s game against Detroit and had the time of our lives, even though we lost and half of the crowd had left the game by the end of the sixth inning (sad).
It’s only MAY, the regular season is 162 games long. I don’t understand why people are thinking the team is done, when we all know Cashman and Girardi will make the changes needed to get the team back on track and in a position to compete for a playoff spot. Just have some patience.
Now, why are hitters can’t get a hit with RISP is another story hahaha
The science of hitting is completely overblown and overstated.
If the stance is comfortable, the hands are back, and the head is still, see the ball out of a pitcher’s hand and hit it unless it’s nowhere near the strike zone.
Keep it basic - keep it simple.
If one-third of the swings find a hole, a hitter stands a chance of winning a batting title with a .333 average.
Too many hitters overthink in the batters box.
Watch video the next day to see what you did but don’t dwell on it.
You should pass that info onto Kevin Long.
FYI!!
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Yankee-for-Life/Bobby-Murcer/e/9780061473418/?itm=2
Bobby Murcer has a book coming out.
I know you all are understandably concerned about the Yankee offense. But just to put it in another perspective my Sox have scored a grand total of five runs in the last 50 innings! An unproductive offense is not something that just the Yankees are facing.
But aleast that one run was HUGE!
Being that Kennedy is having so many struggles in the starting role right now, I have to wonder if he would be better off going into the bullpen to pitch 2-3 innings rather than being out there as a starter.
That would allow him the opportunity to keep working with ML batters, but limit his exposure. That might be enough to start giving him the confidence to trust his stuff more.
As for Abreu and Damon’s problems last night, don’t forget that it was raining out and the footing wasn’t the best. I wouldn’t want to see either of them make a spectacular catch only to injure themselves and the Yankees end up with yet more on the DL. Damon is playing hurt as it is.
The way I look at it, maybe they should just dl Damon anyway. These next two weeks are basically lost anyway without Jorge and Alex. Let Damon rest and get healthy.
A-Point-
Right now Kennedy isn’t even suited for the bullpen I don’t think.
He walks waaaaayyy to many guys, and hes very hittable.
“when we all know Cashman and Girardi will make the changes needed to get the team back on track and in a position to compete for a playoff spot”
No, you don’t know that. In Girardi, the Yankees have a manager without accomplishment. Where’s the evidence he has what it takes to turn things around??? As for Cashman, he’s done a nice job with the system, especially generating some young power arms, but the MLB roster for the 2nd or 3rd consecutive season is particularly well constructed. In fairness to Cashman, he’s trying to win while rebuilding which is a difficult task. Further, you can’t blame him for injuries, though you can’t be stunned by them either since 7 of the 9 everyday players are 33 years old or older.
Where’s the fix exactly??? To me it’s going to be improved health and Chamberlain coming to the rotation pursuant to the plan the organization has supposedly put in place. Other arms in the system??? Some could probably help, but contrary to popular belief there is no “this year’s Joba” in the system. Chamberlain is a once every 5-10 year pitching talent. Nobody in the system is at a talent level anywhere near Joba’s. Impact trade??? Maybe, but not likely. Particularly if you’re looking for pitching (recall Eric Gagne being the “most desirable” pitcher on the market last season?).
It’s not an easy fix. Relying on returns of Posada and Arod and a reversion to career norms for Cano and others is where this projected turnaround will likely manifest itself.
At the rate the bullpen is being worn down, expect to see Mark Melancon and J.B. Cox in the Yankee bullpen by mid to late June. Both are in the process of being elevated from lower levels.
“In Girardi, the Yankees have a manager without accomplishment. ”
Manager of the year doesn’t count?
Oops! Amended to say what I meant.
As for Cashman, he’s done a nice job with the system, especially generating some young power arms, but the MLB roster for the 2nd or 3rd consecutive season is NOT particularly well constructed.
“The science of hitting is completely overblown and overstated.”
I guess that’s why so many players hit .400
The offense is public enemey #1 right now.
We are really lacking without A-Rod & Po.
“In Girardi, the Yankees have a manager without accomplishment. ”
Manager of the year doesn’t count?”
Not to me. Won 78 games, finished in 4th place (where they were projected to finish) and burned out 2-3 young pitchers.
Thought Randolph should have gotten the MOY that year.
There have been many young pitchers who got hurt year after year when they were young, then remained relatively healthy throughout the remainder of their careers. Phil Hughes is 21 years old, let’s all relax a little bit.
As for the Santana trade, wouldn’t they have had to give up Hughes AND Melky AND another pitching prospect? Let’s remember that we weren’t talking about just Santana for Hughes, there were other pieces that we would have lost.
Who knows, this latest injury might prove to be a blessing in disguise. His arm will be fresh in August, September, (and hopefully) October.
Yesterday this board was overwhelmingly convinced that Phil Hughes was fine, and the DL was just an excuse for him to work on his stuff. Sometimes there’s so much insight, it’s hard to see anything around you.
DMan, Kennedy has been OK, not great but OK for the first time through the lineup. Pitching 3 innings should mean that he can get by in the pen. Build up his confidence, lower his ERA a bit, and maybe, just maybe, he can start stretching it out again.
Kennedy didn’t do badly last season. While that was of course a small sample size, it doesn’t mean that he will remain like he is through this season so far… yet another small sample size.
Sending him down isn’t going to have him facing ML batters. Right now the Yankees also need some arms in the pen. This would give him a chance to earn the rotation spot again, sending him down won’t accomplish that.
Fredo Corleone:
Reasonable minds may differ, but it’s hard for me to believe that all those writers were wrong.
Even though Pete’s a little snarky at times his access and info are great. However, the comment section here is f-ing abysmal. I’m ashamed to be part of the same fan base as some of you retards.
People also forget that Santana required a multi-year $100M+ contract. Fans scream when Yanks spend and then scream when they don’t. Remember all the “keep the kids” rallies over the winter?
The Yanks have lost some mighty good players because of impatience & lack of insight: Carlos Pena, Mike Lowell, etc.
Rebuilding year, get used to the sound of it.
I for one will agree with many of you here, and disagree with many others at the same time. This is what the Yankees need right now. A wake up call.
1. Hughes needs some time to recover…both physically obviously and mentally. His time off and his rehab starts will give him time to adjust and re-work himself into the rotation hopefully before the All Star break.
2. While Kennedy is still struggling, I have to say I wasn’t totally upset about last nights outing. There was a lot going on with his defense and the slick ground. He seems to always get into trouble during one big inning. Once he can prevent that big inning from happening and getting all bent out of shape, he will be fine.
3. The offense has been absolutely horrendous. Even worse than last year’s start. Hits with RISP are shockingly ridiculous. And I get the whole thing where the wind gets blown out of our sails once the pitching starts blowing leads but this is a team. A team where others need to pick up eachother.
4. Somebody has suggested it above…get Damon and anybody else the rest they need now while we’re screwed anyway. Bring up guys like Gardner, Veras, and Patterson and see what they’ve got to offer. Look at it this way…it can’t be any worse than we have now. The offense is sputtering and we need other guys to step in and put a spark into the clubhouse.
Can we bring back Jon Lieber ???? He is healthy and pitching in relief for the Cubs but should be a starter. He was great in his time with the Yankees.
Doreen, murph, I’m with you. It’s disappointing/depressing to see the results we’ve seen so far. But realistically, it’s May, the division’s still pretty much lumped together, and as people get healthy, things will start to work out better.
Awful news about Phil Hughes. I guess that explains his issues, though, at least the physical ones. I’ll trade two months on the DL now for an improved pitcher with a healthy body that can hoepfully come back strong and help out down the line.
I’m also kind of excited to see Rasner pitch on Sunday. Not what we expected, for sure - but he’s done very well in AAA, and last year I couldn’t shake the feeling that he was almost, but not quite, ready. Would be nice to see that his extra AAA time, and the experience he got last year, put him in a good mental space.
And one more thing…
5. Now is not the time to be bringing up the trades we should have done, we can still do, etc. The organization made a choice and if they don’t stick to their guns now they look like fools. Let the team develop, ‘rebuild’ and go with it. The Santana trade would have got us Santana but lost many other pieces as well. Picture this…Johnny Damon playing CF everyday. You thought he looked bad last night on the play he made. What if he had to make 10 of them like Melky did. Even our reserve pitching would have taken a hit.
And then people go on suggesting ridiculous free-agent signings like David Wells and Bonds. Are you kidding me. Who wants the headache and do you think the organization really feels like dumping more salary down the tubes. We’ve made the bed we lay in and now we have to deal with it. Either way it will all work out in the end.
Bryan, I am still not 100% convinced that Hughes has the fractured rib. That is the trouble when Girardi gets caught in a number of lies. You can’t trust his word.
None of us have seen his MRI or x-ray. Also the timing of his DL makes you wonder. Is it possible that he is injured? Absolutely. Is it possible that Girardi and Cashman are lying about this? Absolutely. That is the problem.
Look at Betemit. Long DL stint and now down in the minors rehabing from pink eye. Please.
Here are the excuses for Hughes that we’ve heard:
1. Having trouble seeing - even though he has above average vision.
2. Having trouble with the lights and shadows, but not all the time, just sometimes. Err, like when? Eye sight doesn’t change like that. Is he closing his eyes?
3. Pre-game Girardi says Hughes is healthy, then he goes on the DL during the game.
4. Hughes is having trouble locating his fastball.
5. Hughes’ velocity is down, even though it is right around the velocity that reports said he pitched at.
There are too many things coming out of Girardi’s team that don’t mesh with what actually happens.
BTW, Betemit’s problems came at exactly the time when they needed to open a roster spot. Just like Hughes being injured at a time when its being discussed that he should be sent back down to the minors.
Girardi isn’t filling me with confidence that he will tell the truth about anything. While I don’t have a problem with the Yankees and Girardi saying we really can’t talk about something at this time, I do have a problem when he lies. We don’t need to have all the information that the Yankees have, but we don’t need to be told lies that are the opposite of reality either.
Pete - In today’s Newsday, Neil Best is reporting that after the game last night, Joe Girardi and the beat writers had a closed door, off-the-record meeting to hammer out the problems that have occurred lately.
Without betraying any confidences, since it was off-the-record, do you feel that anything positive was accomplished in getting a better relationship going?
“Fredo Corleone:
Reasonable minds may differ, but it’s hard for me to believe that all those writers were wrong.”
It was far from unanimous Murph. Almost half voted for someone else. In the end, Girardi had 2 of the best 5 offensive players in the NL, a coming out party for Uggla and a talented staff. It wasn’t that he did a bad job, but it wasn’t like he had a ‘08 Giants roster working against him either.
Nobody could have predicted the injuries or the young pitchers incredible ineffectiveness…we knew there would be bumps in the road, but I highly doubt anyone here (even all the super homers who defend every yankee move and player no matter how ridiculous they look doing so) thought the kids would be as bad as they have been…and they have been the 2 worst starting pitchers in the entire league…let me repeat that..THEY ARE THE 2 WORST STARTING PITCHERS IN THE LEAGUE.
With that said, Cashman, who gets paid millions to put a contedning team together should have planned ahead and signed a few veteren pitchers in case what has happened happens….and if you think Darrel Rasner is the answer, youre in for a rude awakening.
Stop making excuses for him, Cashman is not as good as you think. He’s not that bad either…but please stop making excuses for him. For all the good moves he’s made, he’s made just as many awful moves that have hurt the team.
How can anyone possibly think that Phil’s injury is fake. Yeah lets fake an injury that will have him out the better part of 2 months, and that will set him back next year innings wise. yep that makes perfect sense.
Jennifer - have to admit I was one of those that did not believe Hughes had a strained oblique. I thought that was a way to buy two weeks, straighten out his head and get him “rehab” work at SWB.
But I do believe the rib injury. Why would you shelve the guy for 2 months? And have to have him start strengthening his arm all over again once the rib heals.
Anyway as bad as the Yanks have been they are only 3 games out. Things will get better for the Yanks.
Joe No matter whose idea the closed door meeting was I think it was a great idea. Hopefully all the issues were hammered out, and the media won’t ask the same questions over and over again.
So Francis, let me get this right. You think Cashman should have signed some veteran pitchers to wait in the wings just in case Hughes and Kennedy didn’t work out quite as planned or, in any event, quickly enough to suit the fan base? And what veteran pitchers do you know of who would sign what would basically be a minor league contract with no guarantee they’d pitch in the majors, because there was an equal chance at the start of the season that Hughes and Kennedy would have been fine, or at the least, the offense would have covered them enough to give them some breathing room?
Jennifer -
I’m with you — you don’t conjure up an injury that would keep a guy down for a couple of months.
And Betemit did not have a simple case of pink eye - he had a scratched cornea (or corneal infection), a bit more serious, and I’m not certain, but I think you need to see to hit. You can’t go peeking around every corner for a conspiracy. Frankly, people aren’t as smart or conniving as they often get credit for!
What annoys me most with all the anti-Phil sentiments so far is how short people’s memories are. The kid bailed us out last season and helped the team overcome the horrid start to make a postseason run.
The kid is hurt and all people want to do is dump on him.
Jennifer:
The Yankees handling of Hughes injury is probably what leads to the current skepticism. Girardi went from no injury to oblique to fractured rib in about 6 hours.
Bunker mentality these guys are operating under, without necessity for my money, lends itself to skepticism, cynicism, etc.
Ism’s in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism. They should believe in themselves. I quote John Lennon, “I don’t believe in The Beatles, I just believe in me.”
Great to see that Murcer will be back tonight. I look forward to hearing him.
Rob Neyer’s take:
“Yes, I owe you this Phil Hughes update. I know you’ve probably heard about the fractured rib already, but since I approvingly quoted a post yesterday suggesting the Yankees were making up an injury. Well, turns out he was hurt. I mean, really hurt. Out-for-two-months hurt. Which in a way is a good thing. Two ways, even. Now we know there probably wasn’t anything wrong with Hughes’ head. That’s a good thing. Another good thing: Hughes’ replacement, though hardly a prospect, has pitched brilliantly in Triple-A this spring. And the Yankees can hardly do worse in that slot than they’ve been doing.”
Source: http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=neyer_rob
You have to be an insider of course.
doreen…yes
Jennifer, with the way Hughes was pitching, do you think the Yankees would care about innings limits for next year? Do you think they will expose themselves that much next year to have a young pitcher who hasn’t been performing as a key cog in the rotation?
Also, there is the little problem with the lack of truth coming from Girardi. That is what happens when you lie and get caught in that lie. People then question everything you say afterwards.
If they were sending him back down to the minors to work on things that would mean they were wrong and will get even more criticism from every portion of the globe for not trading him for Santana. With an injury they get some sympathy, even though no one feels sorry for them. It also stopped all the talking heads on the radio from bashing Hughes, didn’t it?
Girardi hasn’t earned trust yet, and frankly he made it much harder by lying.
Honestly Jennifer, I wish I could fully believe the Yankees with the Hughes injury, but their track record this year with telling the truth is pitiful. Tell me you would be willing to bet any amount of money that Hughes injury is what we have now been told it is. I wouldn’t take that bet.
You can’t fake MRI’s. Once you take an MRI, the results are not just filed with the team. They are also available for league review because the trainers reports (which MLB has access to) will contain the results of the MRI.
Also, hospitals really aren’t into getting involved in medical fraud situations. Its not high on their list of priorities. Even if they are baseball fans.
A strained Oblique? Yeah, you can probably fudge that and get away with it, absent any X-Rays or MRI’s.
A fractured rib? You can’t get away with it.
The kid is hurt. That’s the reality of it. They may have been snarky about the process involving getting the news out about his injury but, he is hurt.
Joe,
That’s very interesting (the Neil Best piece).
If true, (I don’t doubt it is), its a step in the right direction to diffuse a volatile situation.
Ok, Francis -
Name those veterans.
People are stupid. The yankees knew this type of thing would happen in this “rebuilding” stage. ya they didnt know arod would get hurt or posada. They knew Kennedy and Hughes would have their struggles though. I have never thought too highly of Kennedy and now think even lower of him. Send him down for a while or send him somewhere in a deal for a veteran. I really dont see him doing well as a Yankee. Hughes on the other hand is 21 years old. Let me say that again,
21 Years Old
Look at Beckett, Hughes has proven he can pitch (the no hit game last yr. before he got hurt), who knows how this happened but you can definitly say it is a main reason why he has pitched poorly lately. Give him a break.
The booing is just stupid too, these guys are 21 and 23 years old and were expected to struggle some. Its really gonna help their mental state when they are booed.
Has anybody seen the offense???? BOO THEM…Cano: WAKE UP!!!
Oh and the standings say we are only 3 games back of first…Go Yankees
God we have a bunch of cynics on our hands. Everyone knew the kids would struggle maybe not to this point. But look at most of the great pitchers . Their first year in the majors was a struggle. Do you honestly think that he will pitch this way next year? We aren’t talking Brandon Claussen here.
Yes I believe the Yankees when they say he has this injury. Again, they could have just sent him down for 10 days plus to get his head on right, why “give” him an injury that has him down 2 months? It makes no sense.
No one knows how he got this injury? The whole thing sounds weird. He doesn’t have a bruise in the rib area so he didn’t get hit with anything. I heard him say he woke up and felt it. So he just happened to wake up and felt pain? Huh!
“The kid is hurt and all people want to do is dump on him.”
He’s really a victim of outrageously high expectations. Both by the fans and the organization. He had absolutely no hope of meeting those expectations going in and unfortunately, he’s pitched miserably thus making things worse. The talent is real with him, but it needs time to manifest itself. 21-22 year olds don’t come into the AL East under the hot lights of NYC and dominate. But his time will come.
a-point, why would he fake this and not even be able to pick a ball up for at least 3 weeks??? you sound intelligent so answer that for me??? and the whole reason they didn’t trade him for santana is because he is 21 YEARS OLD. They are REBUILDING with young talent. But im sure he’s just faking the injury.
Here’s another point to make. To make this clear, I am not sure either way about Hughes’ injury.
What if he isn’t injured? The Yankees have him working out, meaning he is retaining and building strength. They have him clearing his head from the mental anguish that he has been going through. They give him a sympathetic means for his problems. They have him doing some rehab games in the minors to possibly correct what was wrong, and they have the excuse for why he was not doing well.
Two months out of the rotation, a rotation he was probably going to be out of in any event.
He gets time to work on mechanics that might be out of wack. He gets time to build strength.
It is not out of the realm of possibility, and its Machiavellian enough of a move that seems to fit Girardi and Cashman.
Prior to the injury report, Hughes was a PR nightmare for the Yankees. Overnight, the injury turned that all around.
Skeptic? Yes I am. With good reason. I was born in the morning, but not yesterday morning.
doreen…give me a list of all the free agent pitchers from this past off season and I’ll gladly tell you which ones Cash should have looked at as insurance.
Wade Boggs once threw his back out tying his shoes.
He could have gotten hurt a number of ways. Throwing a pitch, coughing, etc.
Its not how he got hurt. Its that he IS hurt.
For the Yankees to make this scam (as some of you think this is) hold up, they would need to involve Hughes, his agent, his family (who would know about this), the hospital, and its own medical and training staff.
Sorry, I’m not buyin’ it.
Yes, they handled the news about Hughes in a very clumsy fashion. That’s not debatable.
But, to make the reach that they are now making up this story about his fractured rib? That isn’t happening.
Medical professionals are not going to participate in this type of deal simply because a 21 year old pitcher is hurt.
Communicating information poorly is one thing. Fraud is another. The Yankees may have been guilty on the communication part. They aren’t involved in fruaudulant activities.
OPEN YOUR EYES Yankee fans. The run is over. No playoffs this year. No Pitching X No hitting = No Playoffs.
Jennifer, why would it make no sense for them to decide that he needed more than just your 10 days to get his head on straight? How do you know that the Yankees didn’t see something really wrong with his mechanics that would mean more time in the minors?
If that is the case, with all the hype and talk from every news outlet, added to the garbage about how it was somehow his fault that the Yankees didn’t get Santana, then Hughes would be completely done in NY for the season. His every problem becomes magnified.
This is also about PR.
I never doubt player injuries. These guys know there bodies and when something isn’t right better than anyone. 99% play through injuries that would have most people laying on a couch somewhere.
Non impact stress fractures of ribs are not common occurences in baseball players. Strained obliques are.
If a baseball player tells a trainer they have a pain in the ribcage area, the first diagnosis is likely to be muscular because based on experience, that’s what it usually is.
It makes me wonder if the Yanks did not have so many people already having strain issues if they would have even sent Hughes for an MRI. I think the situation with A-Rod not having an MRI when he first got hurt and reinjuring it and Posada having a setback after his rehab probably will increase the frequency of Yankees who will have a date with the tube in the future.
a point, why take him out for 2 MONTHS when you could do that head clearing and mechanics in 2 WEEKS??? makes no sense. He work on some of that between starts and has. He is 21 years old and adjusting to Yankee expectations. He got hurt and is pitching like it.
When are you people going to wake up and realize that this is just *NOT* a good team. They lost what it takes to be champions years ago.
Hank needs to wake up and realize he has a team of wealthy lazy old men, or inexperienced children.
How many times is ‘ole man jeter’ going to swing at the first pitch? Did he not learn last year that he was batting .167 when swinging at the first pitch?
“No one knows how he got this injury? The whole thing sounds weird. He doesn’t have a bruise in the rib area so he didn’t get hit with anything. I heard him say he woke up and felt it. So he just happened to wake up and felt pain? Huh!”
I’m betting Joe hit him, and made sure he didn’t leave any bruises
Anyone else having problems opening the newsday website?
I wanted to read what Neil Best had to say..
should be an interesting weekend
* breath in *
We are 3 games out of first place
* breath out *
repeat
“How many times is ‘ole man jeter’ going to swing at the first pitch? Did he not learn last year that he was batting .167 when swinging at the first pitch?”
Do you realize that last night Jeter reached based 3 times and scored 2 runs?
He could have broken it sneezing or coughing. It doesn’t have to be something physical he did. Geez.
Didn’t Hughes indicate that he hurt it during his start vs. the White Sox???
He’s not sure when he hurt it, he felt something during his start in Chicago.
Starting Pitchers
Tony Armas Jr. PIT
Kris Benson BAL
Shawn Chacon PIT
Roger Clemens NYY
Matt Clement BOS
Bartolo Colon LAA
Scott Elarton CLE
Josh Fogg COL
Casey Fossum * TB
Freddy Garcia PHI
Tom Glavine NYM
Livan Hernandez ARZ
Jason Jennings HOU
Brian Lawrence * NYM
Jon Lieber PHI
Kyle Lohse PHI
Rodrigo Lopez COL
Wade Miller CHC
Eric Milton CIN
Russ Ortiz SF
Andy Pettitte * NYY
Odalis Perez * KC
Mark Redman COL
Kenny Rogers DET
Carlos Silva MIN
Julian Tavarez * BOS
John Thomson KC
Brett Tomko * SD
Steve Trachsel CHC
Jeff Weaver SEA
David Wells LAD
Kip Wells STL
Randy Wolf LAD
Jamey Wright TEX
Jaret Wright BAL
Victor Zambrano BAL
Relief Pitchers
Jeremy Affeldt COL
Antonio Alfonseca PHI
Armando Benitez FLA
Doug Brocail SD
Hector Carrasco * LAA
Randy Choate ARZ
Francisco Cordero MIL
Rheal Cormier CIN
Elmer Dessens COL
Octavio Dotel * ATL
Scott Eyre * CHC
Eric Gagne BOS
Eddie Guardado CIN
LaTroy Hawkins COL
Matt Herges COL
Roberto Hernandez LAD
Todd Jones DET
Jorge Julio COL
Joe Kennedy TOR
Byung-Hyun Kim FLA
Ray King MIL
Scott Linebrink MIL
Ron Mahay ATL
Jose Mesa PHI
Trever Miller HOU
Brian Moehler HOU
Mike Myers CWS
Ramon Ortiz COL
Troy Percival STL
Al Reyes * TB
Chris Reitsma SEA
Arthur Rhodes SEA
David Riske KC
Mariano Rivera NYY
J.C. Romero PHI
Rudy Seanez LAD
Aaron Sele NYM
Mike Timlin BOS
Mike Venafro STL
Ron Villone NYY
Luis Vizcaino NYY
Bob Wickman ARZ
Scott Williamson BAL
Jay Witasick TB
Kerry Wood CHC
“Yankees fan stuck in Ohio-Farnsworth-less
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:14 am
a point, why take him out for 2 MONTHS when you could do that head clearing and mechanics in 2 WEEKS??? makes no sense. He work on some of that between starts and has. He is 21 years old and adjusting to Yankee expectations. He got hurt and is pitching like it.”
You are helping to prove my point. Look at how you are now willing to forget that he was doing poorly and are giving him an excuse.
If mechanical issues were so easy to fix, that it only takes 2 weeks, why hasn’t that worked with Igawa? Last I checked he is still in the minors.
Hughes was a mental wreck on the mound in that last game. You could see it.
My point is that the injury is possible to be fake. I am not saying it is fake. I am also not going to take the Yankees word on things at face value because they have been caught in lying a couple of times this season already.
Here is the bottom line. Hughes wasn’t pitching well - regardless of cause. Taking him out of the rotation was going to happen, regardless. Hughes being sent down again, at this point, gives fuel to the fire of all the Santana BS. Hughes is having mental issues with the pressure he is under, do you think that 2 weeks of being sent down and then coming right back up is going to make that go away?
On one hand you have a PR problem that is going increase the pressure on the kid. On the other hand, due to the injury you now have those who were putting him down the most now appologizing for it.
It isn’t impossible to have those people you mentioned on board SJ44. Not when you can get docs to prescribe HGH for players, or give out ritalin like its candy.
If you were Hughes agent and they laid out things for you and Hughes future, would you go along or decide to throw you client under the bus? The family doesn’t HAVE to know. I know plenty of things about my sibblings that my parents had never found out about. Some of them pretty big things.
If you were Hughes and the Yankees said, look, here is how you are going to tell it… are you going to argue with them saying “No, I would rather just have everyone think I suck”?
That is the thing to come to grips with. Had the Yankees been more up front with their handling of things, even if they didn’t tell you anything, but said we are looking into some things and once we know for certain we will let you know, then it makes it more feasible. With Girardi’s lies, everything gets questioned.
I’ve been reading this blog (including the comments) for a few months but I’ve never posted before. I’m jumping in now because I’m honestly disappointed at the tone of debate. Most of the people posting here make it sound as if they want the Yankees to lose, and that makes me want to stop reading this blog.
What’s with the I-told-you-so’s and the finger-pointing at Cashman and Girardi? Brian Cashman has kept the Yankees competitive (and in the playoffs) for over a decade and Joe Girardi just started.
How many of you have ever been the CEO of a billion dollar corporation? How many have ever had to manage a team of 25 professionals — many of whom have very difficult personalities — to keep them performing at a high level for 7 months in adverse conditions?
This stuff is hard to do in the business world. But in the New York sports climate, with the media breathing down your neck … crickey.
Point is, I became a fan because my father and his father were Yankee fans. I remember the early 90s, when we had Stump Merrill as manager and Andy Hawkins somehow threw a no-hitter and lost the game. If we miss the playoffs this year I will be disappointed, but the team is on the right track. Firing Girardi or Cashman and throwing the team into chaos because of one month — or even one season — of mediocre baseball? Now that would be silly.
Didn’t Hughes indicate that he hurt it during his start vs. the White Sox???
Yeah I think so.
I don’t understand this panic. For the last several years the Yankees have been notoriously slow starters. The bats will heat up, the pitching will be solid, Kennedy and Hughes will improve.
I’m not worried about the pitching at all, there is a ton of depth in the minors and especially bullpen depth. It’s painful to watch the team lose now but I’m confident they will improve and start winning. Rasner will be an improvement over Hughes and Kennedy is showing improvement every time out.
Kennedy was the most polished of our 3 young starters anyway so it makes sense to keep him in the bigs. Hughes will in the end benefit from this injury because he can spend a month in AAA and get his mechanics figured out. Hughes will be back by the allstar break and be on no innings limit for the last 3 months.
Hughes didn’t say he hurt it during his Chicago start.
He said he first felt something in Chicago but doesn’t know how or when it happened.
Tony Armas Jr
Josh Fogg
Livan Hernandez
Kyle Lohse
Rodrigo Lopez
Odalis Perez
Mark Redman
Steve Trachsel
Kip Wells
Randy Wolf
Thats 10 pitchers that could have been looked at as insurance policies that could have been signed for cheap/1 year deals. And also, given how bad Mussina was last season, that was 3 question marks in the rotation with nothing but unproven and/or ineffective pitchers already in the system as insurance.
It’s clear to me what the problem is:
Pitchers with Irish last names can’t win with the Yanks.
Good God. That’s 10 guys who can’t pitch a lick.
Unless of course, you want to pay 6 million a year for Kyle Lohse and Livan Hernandez.
Let’s examine the other 8 guys on your list.
Mark Redman gave up 10 to the Dodgers in the first inning of his last start. Lopez has an elbow injury. Wolf has had TWO TJ surgeries. Traschsel is terrible.
Kip Wells is back on the DL with a nerve problem in his arm.
Fogg and Armas Jr are hurt and ineffective.
Odalis Perez? Another head case.
If Cashman signed any of those guys, folks would be wigging out right now.
more waisted money SJ
wasted *
SJ44, people are wigging out already anyway.
That list makes me want to wig out.
those guys are not great pitchers in the least bit, but what they are is serviceable innings eaters that have ML experience and could be whipping boys to spell the bullpen. I wouldnt expect much from any of them other than to eat innings. We cant hang Kennedy or Hughes out to dry when theyre not pitching well…which has been every start except Hughes first start….and you cant sit there and tell me that any one of those guys could do any worse(when healthy) than Kennedy and Hughes have done this season.
Francis, yet you would want the Yankees to pay thier contract ? SJ just gave you all the samples, plus they all have not had that great of a history of production. I mean lets keep it real
Tony Armas Jr
Josh Fogg
Livan Hernandez
Kyle Lohse
Rodrigo Lopez
Odalis Perez
Mark Redman
Steve Trachsel
Kip Wells
Randy Wolf
Kyle Lohse is the only name worth anything on this list and he just signed a 1 yr 4.25M (2008), he would have easily asked for 5 -6 mill per yr. from NY and an extended contract, he started the offseason at the asking price of $8 M when no one bit he settled for 1 yr. in St. Louis
pay their contract on a one year deal? Yes. who cares about the money, its the Yankees, not the Twins. their payroll is already over 200 million, whats another 5 more mil. Besides, that money would be coming off the at seasons end anyway, its not like I was advocating locking those guy up to 10 year, multi million dollar deals.
I never said any of them were good pitchers…just insurance policies. We cant let a Kip Wells stay in there and take his lumps instead of pulling him after 3 innings because he’s thrown 70 pitches.
ok maybe you like giving away 5-8 Million, plus you miss the point they settled to that price, w/ us they’d ask for per not just a 1 yr. deal. I doubt Cashman, Oppenheimer,Newman and Eppler are into throwing money away.
Great to hear Murcer will be back tonight, maybe he’s what the Yankees need. I hope Wang goes 6-0 tonight!
You let a Kip Wells (?!) throw 130 pitches to “take his lumps” and you won’t have him around to take his lumps for very long.
The Yankees already have Rasner to provide what should be a serviceable back-end rotation replacement for Hughes. That leaves Kennedy. If the Yankees need to replace him in the rotation, they will. The Yankees know how to use the scrap heap when necessary. Sometimes they even catch lightning in a bottle (Small, Chacon). But picking up a lousy starter just to burn him up makes no sense.
I’ll pitch for the Yankees for a couple of millions and eat up some innings.
I won’t be any good though. Just warning everyone.
Another nice night by Melancon in Tampa. 3 IP, 0 ER, 3 K. ERA down to 3.32.
Not such a great night in Trenton. Someone finally got to McCutchen, though he did last 7 IP and fanned 8 despite allowing 10 hits and 5 ER. Tabata finally got back on the field, but he and Jackson continue to struggle a bit. Thinking maybe Melancon and Tababta should switch teams…soon.
they gave roger clemens 100,000 a pitch last season, money is no object to the yankees.
Stay the course! The problems with the Yanks extend beyond whatever growing pains a pair of early 20 somethings experience in their first full year in the bigs.Cano is not worth a tinkers damn,and should be traded.Giambi must be released.Abreu could reap something via a sandwich draft pick(although a trade would suit me fine).Jeter has to accept the fact he is getting along in years and look for another position.A rod cannot hit in the clutch,so let him wriggle out of this contract.Melky I would keep,he hustles and seems to care.Damon has seen better days,but may have a year or two left.Girardi,who I admire, has shown a strange ineffectivness.Lets see what plays out with him.
Sweeney just said that McCutcheon is a possibility in the Bronx late this year - he would obviously need to perform great to get that chance.
Stay the course! Trade Cano, release Giambi, trade Abreu, change Jeter’s position, get rid of A-Rod!
Hilarious.
jeremy, those guys on the list are not babies, they dont need to be on innings counts like Hughes and other young pitchers. A vetern pitcher should be able to throw 115 pitches a game with ease.
Fredo, I said that last night, Melancon was stretched for the first time in 08′ meaning his promotion is about a week or 2 away, David Robertson last night was promoted to Scranton, so now there is a spot open in AA Trenton, many people believe it’s either Melancon to AA or it could mean Humberto might get sent to AA soon…time will tell. If Melancon is sent AA Garcia or Sanchez could be ready for Tampa sooner than later since they’ve been throwing off a mound already.
a fans take on last night in Trenton: “Robertson’s stuff was filthy. The last two batters he faced didn’t have a chance.
McCutchen was better than 5 ER would indicate. He had a couple of pop fly extra base hits down the line.”
Francis, SJ44 already went through the reasons why all these guys are poor bets to give us 115 pitches per start. Just because a guy is a veteran doesn’t mean he is durable. In fact many of these pitchers are unreliable because of their age and injury history.
Besides, what’s the use of a pitcher who throws a lot of pitches if he can’t give us innings and a chance to win? None of these guys can give us those things. Girardi isn’t pulling Kennedy early because of pitch counts, it’s because he’s ineffective. He’s throwing a lot of pitches because he can’t get guys out!
this is the line from Niel’scolum. The meeting allegedly happened on Wednesday not yesterday.Also being as Pete has not been covering the series live this week he would not have been there and I am sure would not comment on an off the record meeting
The manager and writers had a long, off-the-record meeting well after the end of Wednesday’s game.
they promoted robertson to AAA? it would be great if we could see him in the bigs in the next few months, especially if it could happen around the ASB as joba transitions to the rotation. that’s a lot of ifs, but still good news.
youre right jeremy, I agree…my list was flawed, I was just going by the names, I didnt take into account their injury histories….but my whole point was that the yankees should have signed a veteren starter in the off season as insurance and I stand by it…Kyle Lohse could have been that guy…and money is no object so I wont entertain that debate….especially on a 1 year deal.
Mickey Rivers on Dan Patrick radio show is a few minutes. Guaranteed to be great interview. I heard him 5 years ago. DP played a tape of Bucky Dent and Mick started a conversation with him on the air - thinking it was live. Classic Mick the Quick.
everyone has stated the Yankees will be swept this weekend if Wang doesn’t do well, because we’re facing 3 pitchers who have 2 something ERA’s and 1 loss between the 3 of them. But i’m inclined to say, has it even mattered who the hell pitches against them this year? They’ve sucked against the worst of the worst. it wouldn’t make any difference probably if Silva was 0-4 with a 7.54 ERA or something. they’re just not hitting. doesn’t matter who’s pitching if you’re not gonna hit a damn thing.
Brandon - Thanks for the update. I too follow Pinstripes PLus and think it is a great site. Where did you get the news about Sanchez and Garcia throwing off a mound?
Horne is scheduled to throw off a mound next week on the way back (he probably would have been the first or second one up if he didn’t get injured. Seven of Melancon’s last appearances have been no runs. He is turning it on.
The pitching depth in the minors on this team is unbelievable. But we all have to remain patient. Most of the young guys will fail the first time out. It is an adjustment period. However, it seems the easier move is for the relief pitchers. Cox and Melancon were college closers at big time programs. Mccutcheon is 25 Horne is a bit older. Sanchez was one of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball two years ago.
Patience. I heard Gammons the other day on radio in Boston and he feels that the ban on amphetamines is also taking a huge toll. Paraphrasing - veteran pitchers who could throw 90-92 and be serviceable are now throwing in the mid 80s and are useless. It is a young persons game.
The Yanks know this. But with the youth comes growing pains. This is a time of transition and retooling (while trying to compete which is a very delicate balancing act).
Fortunately, we are well stocked for what is to come.
the yankees might do something this weekend that has never been done in the history of baseball….they might score negative runs in a game
Peter, do you think that IPK is going back down to the minors soon ? Don’t you think that there are at least 2 or 3 guys down there that can give us a few starts to see if they can be the 2008 version of Aaron Small ?
Francis, I agree it would have been nice to sign someone as insurance, but the Yankees can’t just throw money at guys who are poor bets to be any better or more durable than Rasner. It doesn’t help the team and it helps other teams via the luxury tax.
Lohse pitched 34 innings last season. He is not the dependable veteran we could use right now.
If a pitcher is any good at all he will command multiple years and a high salary. Look at Carlos Silva.
Cashman knows how to make due with what’s available. He’s done it before and he’ll do it again.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets025670843may02,0,7358588.story
Read what Wagner said. OUCH!! This coming from a guy who only wants to pitch in games with save situations, no matter what.
Jeremy, whats Freddy Garcia doing these days? Is he healthy, can he be signed?
Their problems are going to have to be solved from within.
You can just snap your fingers and make trades. It May 2. NOBODY is trading anybody of value on May 2.
You wanna trade Robinson Cano? That’s the kind of player you are going to have to trade to find something of value on the trade market.
But, you really don’t want to be so desperate as to give up a 25 year old asset like Cano, do you? Honestly, that would be beyond dumb.
I love the “who cares about the money” crowd. Its easy not to care about the money when its not your money.
Their bad contracts over the years have enabled other teams (through revenue sharing and the luxury tax) the additional income needed to keep their own players. That limits the available good players in free agency and the trade market each year.
You have to understand how the changing financial structure in the game has affected the Yankees. By doing so, you will understand why the Yankees are going about this as they are.
So yes, the money does matter.
Throwing away millions of dollars on average pitchers is one of the reasons why the Yankees are in their current situation.
Understand something about money. Giving big money to average players doesn’t make them above average players. It just makes them overpaid.
They can solve their pitching issues from within. With the off days in May, they can skip Kennedy’s turn in the rotation if they choose. They could call up McCutcheon to take his spot. Those are two options.
They are aggressively developing and promoting Melancon, Cox and Robertson. Why? It seems clear they are paving the way for Joba to be transitioned into the rotation and these 3 are in the mix to be his replacement in the bullpen. Another option to boost the rotation.
Regardless of all this stuff, one thing is clear. They have to start hitting.
If they don’t, you can make all the moves you want to make, they aren’t going to win.
The next 30 games have to show improvement from an offensive standpoint than what we have seen in the first 30. Its the only way they are going to hang in there until Arod and Posada return.
Frankie the bug,
The issue may not have been money, but a roster spot. veteran guys are probably less likely to take a minor league deal to wait. i think it was a good idea to see if the young guys could hack it, we found out that they can’t, yet. we’re already running into roster problems, due to having so many dh’s, and no 1b.
jason, Lisa Kennelly broke it on April the 16th
Christian Garcia was from PP Jason, but Gammons has that part right alot of veteran SP have loss velocity, not one peep…and there has been alot of injuries around the league.
Jennifer, and it was on the Micheal Kay Show , I was cracking up listening to it…I was like Billy be quiet ..he kept ripping Oli Perez in that interview. Wagner and the Mets are going to have issues.
Billy Wagner rips Oli Perez
Brandon - That is great news. Thanks for the info.
Man, can you imagine talking about Brackman this time next year. Good that he is throwing.
There are seemingly so many injuries this year already. Strains, pulls etc. Look at Tulowitzky down.
A little bit more from Gammons is that in the minor leagues they have been testing for 9 years and in the majors for 3 (or maybe 4) and this has weeded out lots. The aphetamine issue probably also has a significant impact on the older players who needed a little assistance to get up for the games.
To me all of the above, injuries, older players breaking down, taking longer to come back, pitching velocities for mid-tier guys down shows how pervasive these issues were/are.
SJ44 is right about the offense. It doesn’t matter who pitches if the team keeps batting .241/.338/.388 with RISP.
Freddy Garcia completely broke down last year. Francis, the point I’m trying to make is that an unstable rotation needs a sure thing, and a sure thing won’t sign a cheap one-year deal. If there were an effective veteran innings-eater out there, he would have been signed well before the season started. Again, that’s why Silva got so much money and so many years, not because he’s particularly good, but because the market was thin. You’re looking for an easy solution that doesn’t exist.
Gee…some of these comments go from simple head scratching to totally rediculous. I love all the GM’s and managers on here especially the ones who want to get something for nothing. Doesn’t work like that in the real world (well..except for the Mets in the Santana trade…lol).
Thank Goodness for the sane posters such as SJ44, Doreen, Murphy, Rebecca etc. Let’s see…last year the end of May almost everyone and their mother said the Yankees had NO chance for the playoffs and we all know how that turned out …don’t we? Unfortunately we didn’t make it very far but the point is we did make the playoffs (and almost won the division)even though we were written off as dead and buried before June. Have a little faith folks …I always tell my detractors ..speak to me in October…:o).
As for the low class fans that boo their own players …especially kids like Hughes and Kennedy…their actions speak for just what type of person they are…frustration is no excuse for booing these young players. It’s probably the same people who were cheering right along with them last year and swore they would have patience this year with the kids..that is until the kids struggled in their first year as starters and didn’t live up to the very heavy expectations placed on them.
I’m a fan through good times and bad….I’ve lived through BAD (the late 60’s, early 70’s and the 80’s). True fans are there forever not just when a team wins…AND…just because it’s the Yankees it doesn’t mean we are owed the World Series every year ..just ask the other 29 teams who want to win too.
I still think we will be there in the end …I’m an Optimist like Rebecca …
Go Yankees 2008 !!!!
This was an interesting take from John Sickel’s minorleagueball.com blog on Hughes. This was before the most recent awful outing and before the injury news hit. In this thread, Sickel’s essentially predicted Hughes had a hidden injury even he may have been unaware of, thus perhaps altering mechanics and making it worse. Then, some picthing coach responds later about his mechanics. Just from a rookie ball card. Nevertheless, he suggests the same thing. Mind you, this is pre-injury, and had more to do with his trunk and shoulder rotation than his arm.
Pretty accurate, if perhaps just a coincidence.
BTW, that is a great blog about prospects in general (this was in afollow-up called not a prospect, as he tends to follow up and see where his predictions go).
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/4/25/460628/not-a-rookie-phil-hughes
Even professionals when taking the mound with the understanding, that offensive and defensive help cannot be counted on have a tendency to press, nibble, and avoid a challenge. You cannot pitch well if the back of your mind says, boy you cannot make a mistake, you won’t get it back. With this in mind throwing hittable baseballs is far less likely to happen, results are way to many hitters counts and having to throw hittable baseballs, resulting in high pitch counts and early exists, resulting in overused pens. Not a good thing!
I just turned Fatso and Froot Loops off - when I hear Russo say that Hughes can’t carry Lincecum’s jock, then I figure that the rest of the radio show is going to go downhill (if that’s possible). I don’t want to get on a tangent about the Giants’ stud pitcher (he’s pretty unbelievable), but just the fact that already Phil is being judged like that makes me sick. I don’t care what Lincecum does - I just know how good Phil is (or shall I say, can be. If he can’t stay healthy, then it’s all moot anyway. I admit that I AM concerned about him being inury prone).
This injury really sets Phil back in terms of innings pitched - he’s going to have another cap next year - but although I really don’t think the injury affected him (I think it’s his mechanics that are out of whack) to the tune of a 9.00 ERA, I do think getting to pitch regularly (once he starts his rehab) in the minors will help him. Is Rafael Chaves the pitching coach in Scranton? I just hope, in any case, that the Yankees take this time to review Phil’s mechanics and realize that he has to go back to his natural delivery. Either that, or Phil needs to decide that for himself as it’s his career on the line.