Igawa doesn’t seem to quite get it
-
- May
- 10
Joe Girardi is a generally positive guy. But he didn’t mince words after the game tonight: Kei Igawa can’t pitch in the majors unless he can get his off-speed stuff over the plate.
So, as you might expect, Igawa was asked what the deal was with his off-speed pitches.
“I thought the changeup worked well. The slider, I missed a few pitches. But besides that, they were pretty good,” he said through a translator. “The result was part of baseball. It can happen in any game. The thing I would like to work on is getting more strikeouts.”
Considering he had no strikeouts, that should not be a problem.
Girardi said “the plan” is Igawa to start on Wednesday in St. Pete. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the plan changed.
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Peter Abraham
Holy moly! “Besides that, they were pretty good”? Besides that, what did you think of the play, Mrs. Lincoln? Hopefully, the Yankees will have a better plan 5 days from now.
forget st pete. he needs to go across the bridge to tampa…and stay there for A ball
put kman in a dumpster
Well, he didn’t say what exactly he was starting…
Skippy: maybe a lawnmower in the outfield? The bus to Scranton?
pathetic
I gotta say…. if that’s “the plan” …. then that’s not a very good plan at all.
There has to be a monkey or a midget or any outfielder in the organization that can do better then Igawa
GOD PLEASE TELL ME HE WAS MISQUOTED !
maybe that’s your problem Igawa ever thought instead of setting up strikeouts get groundouts, instead of line drives figure out how to force weak grounders. THIS GUY IS A BUM, GET HIM OUT OF HERE I FEEL LIKE I MIGHT DO SOMETHING STUPID TO HIM ! CASH DON’T TEST ME…
I understand that Girardi can’t come right out and say “This guy stinks and I never want to see him on the mound again” (even though I wish he would say it). But there has to be a better plan than Igawa again in 5 days. Who would be the next logical AAA guy to get his shot?
The team that the Yanks paided $25m to, just to talk to this loser should be arrested for robbery. So I guess he thought his outing wasn’t bad??!! Not only do they have someone who can’t pitch he also doesn’t realize that there is a problem. Maybe he thought he was brought over here to throw batting practice to the hitters? He doesn’t realize that batting practice is before the game not during. Maybe he should try wearing the glasses next time…
So I didn’t get to watch the game, but I am assuming it went pretty badly. Hope Rasner has another great night tomorrow.
Amanda, do yourself a favor and avoid the game thread from tonight. It may have been worse than the game itself.
People, let’s go over this again. Brian Cashman knows nothing about evaluating pitching. His record speaks for itself.
On a more hopeful note, Rasner tomorrow?
Me thinks the plan will be changing with regards to Igawa.
If not…someone needs to call Bellevue.
I have a good feeling about Rasner tomorrow/today. I actually have hope with him.
We will see.
I don’t undestand why Kennedy hasn’t been called back up.Igawa is worse.
My plan would be to have Igawa pitch to all the HR Derby contestants. He will be able to say farewell to the Yankee Stadium mound, the derby numbers will be off the charts, and the Yankees can show their fans something of the $46 million investment.
Matthew I like your idea. Rasner will be good tomorrow. I just hope Igawa feels bad and decides to forfeit his money and return to Japan.
Dear Cashman,
I love your moves generally , but dude go check out the morons working for the Yankees in the Pacific Rim and shoot them. I think all those guys do is watch youtube videos of these pitchers and label them studs.
Ugh…at least the bullpen was effective tonight.
Hi Amanda,
Lucky you! You didn’t have to suffer that abysmal start by Igawa…and then the frustrating 9th when it looked like they were going to come back, only to fall short…
Yes, we need Rasner to pitch well!
To me, it’s a simple plan:
JA goes on the DL- Britton takes his place (sad for JA- hope it’s not real bad)
Igawa down to AAA- never to come back again, replaced, for now, for Alberto
Tuesday- Ensberg? Betemit is dealt or cut, A pitcher (D Mc?) comes up
Thursday- A-rod replaces whoever came up to pitch Wednesday
Seems easy. (I recognize the 40 man roster issue, but if that’s the problem, DFA Igawa and let his replacement take the spot)
Anyone know if Matt DiSalvo or Chase Wright have been considered for future starts? Are they still in the farm system?
hey dynasty!
lucky me is right! I don’t get to watch the game tomorrow either and I am almost positive it’s going to be good!
Good night everyone, get some sleep
…and by the way, now that I think of it…whatever happened to Aaron Small?
I remember that he won quite a few games up here…
I have always liked Chase Wright…even though he had that beating by the Red Sox. He seems like a pretty decent guy. He’s been doing pretty good in AA right?
I wonder if the translator did precisely translate what Igawa said. It’s just hard to believe Igawa would be so ignorant of his pitching problems.
“I have always liked Chase Wright…even though he had that beating by the Red Sox. He seems like a pretty decent guy. He’s been doing pretty good in AA right?”
very good, he’s turning into a predominantly groundball pitcher w/ some strikeout ability, I see alot of Ted Lilly in him.
Shirley,
Yes, you bring up a good point-maybe something was lost in translation…
When he said, “But besides that, they were pretty good,” I wonder if he was perhaps referring to the Tigers. That the Tigers were pretty good in other words…
thank god i chose to attend thursdays game at tropicana when i go down to naples for the week on vacation starting tomorrow….I get to see what looks to be Rasner….and A-Rods first day back……all from section 117 third base side row S!
“Anyone know if Matt DiSalvo or Chase Wright have been considered for future starts? Are they still in the farm system?”
DeSalvo is in Atlanta, Wright should have been the call up instead of Igawa, his numbers were flatout better than Kei’s
Corey he most likely will miss 2 days after being activated, they aren’t taking chances w/ him.
Cashman should have dumped Igawful on the Padres when he had the chance last year. Now instead of losing 26M the Yankees are going to be in it for the long 46M haul.
They only need a very temporary solution. I say just bring Kennedy back and let him give you whatever he gives you. Joba is not far off at this point, just try to sometimes get a win out of Kennedy. I mean if Rasner gives you decent starts, and Mussina continues to give his good performances, then the Yankees can still be in prime position when Joba enters the rotation. When that happens, you’re worst starter is Rasner… That’s not too bad when you think about it. But starting to mix and match and test new pitchers at this point seems pointless.
I think the fact that they are thinking of going with Igawa for another start is a large indicator that they expect Joba to begin preparation soon.
Almost forgot how much the “Yankees needed Brian Cashman more than Cashman needed the Yankees”.
Good ole Ted Lilly, 10Ks yesterday.
Igawful 0K’s.
man there are some real morons on this site.
dynasty is destiny are you 10 yrs old??
Desalvo is not in the yankee system anymore.
Jean afterman got them Igawa…The backend of the pitching staff has been terrible but the offense is a bigger disappointment..
the day Giambi is gone I will be ecstatic and if they give Texiera 7 yrs or more I will be pissed and they will regret that move big time, he is 29 already..he is a good not great player.. good 1B are a dime a dozen except on the yankee roster…
I like the move for youth, no more big crazy signings……
Hopefully Kennedy is making progress down in Scranton.
Bring back IPK!!!
bateman classic stupid comment by you. ia msure you will be moaning the Lilly non signing next yr when he will stink and still have 3 more yrs of huge money on his agreement..
Igawa gets like $5 mill a yr. obviouly that is too much becuase he stinks but his cost was the $25 mill posting feee not his yearly salary.
Giambi is making $21 mill this yr…..
Abreu is making $16 mill
Jeter is making $19 mill.
Moose I think i making $10 mill.
Pettitte is making over $13 mill a yr. which one of these guys is worth his salary? Don’t lie, NONE of them NONE>>>>>>
the only Yanks that are worth what they are paid are; wang, joba, melky,Mariano(WOW), Ohlendorf, maybe Molina(but most backups get ess then a mill. he is getting a little over $2 mill.) imagine that this is a team of all over paid players…there are literally 4 or 5 guy worth there pay..Jeter has zero HR’s and he cannot field anymore, I love Jeter but let’s be real, he has no SB’s also….
How unlikeable is a team where almost no one earns there pay??????
Damon gets like $13 mill and the same for Matsui, talk about bad return on investment, wow…
Jean Afterman got Igawa are you sure she did that ? get me a link now Stuart, because alot of people told me Pags scouted him. Jean Afterman btw people is a woman Yankees Assistant GM. I want info on this chick now.
Igawa being called up to pitch was all Cashman trying to prove once again he wasn’t wrong about Igawa.
Cashman’s as clueless on Igawa as Igawa is on himself. BTW, Igawa’s quotes after his bad starts last year were as clueless as this year’s…
I would not bet my life on it since I am not exactly in management but I read numerous times she oversaw the asian pacific work and did the Igawa deal..
If I am wrong please correct me.
stick with overpaying for young carribean studs, and overpay for high priced talent in the draft that falls because of signability and get a strategic free agent on occasion but never for more then 5 yrs. that is a formula for success.
the yanks have a great base now(very good minors), are losing alot of dead weight salaries after this season so continue the plan. The only thing that worries me is hot head hank will blow up the plan and start a ken phelps for jay buhner impulsive impatient era again…..
stuart, why are you so concerned with the payroll? The bottom line is Abreu, Jeter, and Moose are getting the job. It’s not like the Yankees are lacking players because they can’t afford them. I agree with you on Giambi, but Pettitte? Pettitte is still very good. He’s had some bad starts but he’ll come around. I mean he’s the Yankees guy in the playoffs…
So the point is, why do you care if players who are very good like Jeter, Abrea, Mussina, Pettitte are over-paid? The Yankees need them to win and they will win with them.
Here’s a link on Ms.Afterman which credits her with Matsui’s signing. Although I haven’t seen her name in connection with Igawa’s signing, I guess it’s not such a stretch to think she might have been involved on that, too.
http://www.newyorkbusiness-risingstars.com/100women/index.php/womens/view/5
did they rehire her ?
David,
I agree with you…Pettitte is a tough competitor who gives his all…
He earns his salary in the post season when it counts the most…
Interesting…I just read that Igawa was 86-60 with a 3.15 ERA in Japan when he was signed by the Yankees…
Why did those number merit such an outrageous contract?
that’s a question Jene Afterman has dodged what’s funny is the assistant GM Kim Ng now works for the Dodgers and she was the only woman to interview for a MLB GM position, funny how the Dodgers have Kuroda, Kou and Saito, while we’re stuck Beaver face.
What I meant to say was former Yankees asst. GM Kim Ng now works for the Dodgers and she was the only woman to interview for a MLB GM position she lost it to Ned Colletti in 2005, funny how the Dodgers have signed Kuroda, Kou and Saito at reasonable prices, while we’re stuck Beaver face and Afterman is the one that led the price tag on Igawa from what I read.
What does the scouting of talent entail?
How many scouts typically would have looked at someone like Igawa?
I’m just trying to understand how at some point along the chain of command someone didn’t question Igawa’s “skills.”
“Girardi said “the plan” is Igawa to start on Wednesday in St. Pete.”
I will shower him with boooooo’s if he gives this another shot. Igawa sucks, period.
Stuart - there are just no players out there. Knock Jeter all you want for his average fielding, no SB, no HR. He hits, he gets on base, he drives runs in consistently. You can’t replace Jeter. When you’re in the majors, everyone is good. The great players cost a fortune. Those great players, who may not be worth it relatively, give a team that little hump into the playoffs.
Kim Ng’s position w/ the Yankees now currently under Jene After responsibilities consist of the following
(analyzing player tendencies, signing free agents, tracking Major League player movement, arbitration, negotiating contracts, and budgeting.)
correction
Kim Ng’s former asst. GM position(since 01′) w/ the Yankees now currently under Jene Afterman responsibilities consists of the following
(analyzing player tendencies, signing free agents, tracking Major League player movement, arbitration, negotiating contracts, and budgeting.)
Patrick… agree with you on Ted Lilly/Igawa point.
Stuart Pettitte makes 16 MM, Moose 11/12. But that’s not the point. Its almost like Cashman felt like he had to match Theo, who had just outbid him for Matsuzaka.
Igawa was a huge stretch. Even the guys that dominate in Japan soemtimes don’t fare well in the MLB. Igawa, yeah he led the Japan league in strikeouts a few years, but his stuff was inconsistent. Flashes of brilliance, but too many mistakes. Surely not worth 25MM to sign plus another 20 MM for 4 years.
The Yankees are paying for mistakes in the past… giving Giambi that 7th year, Pavano, Igawa, Farnsworth, Damon. The list is endless.
What I worry about is the Yankees regretting the Posada deal. I worry about them panicking and throwing 140MM at Texiera. It could be a vicious cycle.
Everyone thinks the Yankees have all the money in the world, but even they have limits. That’s why Santana isn’t wearing pinstripes right now. If they had traded Matsui to the Giants, Santana would be on this team. I have no doubt. But even the Yankees have their limits. Luxury tax. Revenue sharing. It adds up.
But things will get better. As long as no one in that front office panics. Just put the checkbooks away guys. Use the farm. See where you stand at the all star break.
“bateman classic stupid comment by you. ia msure you will be moaning the Lilly non signing next yr when he will stink and still have 3 more yrs of huge money on his agreement..”
Stupid comment? If we had Lilly last year versus Igawful we would have won the division. This year our pitching problems again are the cause of poor signings such as Igawa and inexperienced pitchers such as Kennedy and Hughes. Again, a pitcher like Lilly would have been perfect for the 5th starter. Someone who has pitched in NY, liked being in NY, and wanted to come back.
And stuart, just because the 26M posting fee isn’t part of his salary doesn’t mean its Monopoly money. Its still a sunken cost. Igawa is a 46M bust. Not a 20M bust.
And stuart don’t even try to blame an Assistant GM for Igawa. Bottom line is Cashman is responsible for this team. If he sends someone to Japan with a blank check to get Igawa it just means he didn’t want to make the flight. You gotta be joking that you think that Cashman didn’t sign off on Igawa.
Strange outing by Igawa. No BB, no HRs, still he gives up 6 runs.
“Interesting…I just read that Igawa was 86-60 with a 3.15 ERA in Japan when he was signed by the Yankees… Why did those number merit such an outrageous contract?”
The Yanks thought Igawa was going to be the next Dice-K since his ERA was close to what Matsuzaka’s was in Japan.
“And besides that, Mrs. Lincoln…”
Should any of you guys ever grow up to be college administrators, please don’t schedule graduation weekend for 9 AM.
Really, please. 9 AM and college kids don’t mix. At all.
On the plus side, the next time you’re all like to see me, I’ll technically be a college graduate.
Later, GO YANKEES!
I said it before and I’ll say it again.
Drive 4-5
May 9th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Shame on Brian Cashman for bidding against himself and spending $46mil on Kei Igawa. I never read a scouting report that was impressed with Igawa’s stuff.
Double shame on Cashman for having Kei Igawa as Plan B if Hughes or Kennedy failed.
We should not blame Igawa for last night’s performance. Igawa clearly lacks the talent to pitch at the major league level. The blame goes directly to the man who put Igawa into a position to fail. I understand that Horne, barring injury, could have been the backup plan in case Hughes and Kennedy’s failed.But the fact that the backup plan includes at best Jeff Karstens and at worst Kei Igawa speaks volumes about the lack of starting pitching depth at the top levels of the Yankee organization.
The Yankees believed Igawa would translate into a serviceable lefty at the back end (#4,but more likely #5) of the rotation. It’s all Cashman ever said. He never expected Igawa to be Dice-K. Never. He had great strikeout numbers in Japan, and based on the scouting reports, they thought he’d make the transition. But it doesn’t always work out.
The bidding number got high because the bidding number on Dice-K went through the roof, and I guess the Yankees did not want to get out-bid a second time. They were totally caught off guard by Boston’s bid on Matsuzaka - everyone was at the time. NO ONE expected the bid to be nearly as high as it was. I would submit though, that Dice-K has not been the ace he was expected to be, but he’s been a little better than serviceable (something that’s been “covered” by the fact that Beckett has done so well). So, if Dice-K downgraded from “ace” to slightly more than “serviceable,” it stands to reason that Igawa, who was never as good as Dice-K to begin with, would downgrade from “serviceable” to, well, not major-league material.
I don’t blame Cashman for the signing itself. But I do think that at some point the team just has to say “Uncle - we blew this one big time.” Igawa’s had ample opportunity to show what he can do. He has been coached on his delivery and mechanics. Apparently he is able to do what they want in the bullpen, but is not able to repeat the better mechanics in a game situation. Maybe he would do better with a new start - a different team altogether. I can’t help but feel the kid probably wishes he was back in Japan.
I can’t wait to see what the plan is for Wednesday. If they give Igawa a second chance, I think this blog is going to erupt and implode!
But it sounded to me, anyway, that that plan is in doubt.
If that plan doesn’t change by Wednesday both Girardi and Cashman need to be fired immediately.
Igawa physically has major league stuff, but mentally most certainly does not. Cashman failed with this one, and he needs to move on.
I sincerely hope Cashman will not be getting any contract extension at the end of this year. Hank and Hal also need to dust off the old big hook and chalk Girardi’s name on it.
Rebecca -
Mazel tov! Here’s to the beginning of new chapter in your life.
The bottom line is that the Yankees only persued Igawa because the Red Sox landed Matsuzaka and that’s a bad way to go about business. This isn’t 20-20 hindsight - lots of us were scratching our heads when they acquired Igawa.
Gargoyle -
I think you are right about that. It seemed like a knee-jerk move to me at the time, as well, especially since I’d never heard of Igawa prior to that.
Points:
1) Igawa is no pitcher the NYY should ever let wear the uniform, let alone touch a baseball. Whoever in the organizations lets him pitch again is a complete idiot. If Hank is overruled on this, and you KNOW the HE never wants to see that SLUG pitch again, then we are in for some stupid moves for the rest of the year.
2) Duncan is a AAA star and hitting the ball hard counts for nothing. Looks at his actual numbers in the majors. Very bad. He needs to go.
3) Wilson is terrible. Another bad move. DFA him. Bring up a Minor Leaguer to take his place.
4) Britton is not the answer and so what if he goes up and down from MLB to AAA. There are worse things in life.
5) With Alby down, I truly hope I am wrong about what Hawkins can do, but there better be a backup plan
6) for the #5 spot, if the Yankees don’t want to bring up a NEW Minor Leaguer ( IPK has proven to be right there with Duncan…a great AAA player that that is ALL )…then go out and “deal” for a #5 starter.
7) This team is going to be fine, once they just take care of all of the above and get A-Rod and Posada back. The BoSux are NOT that good and we can easily win the division.
( siss - boom - bah ! )
If Girardi pulls this season back together, he will certainly have earned his money. If he doesn’t, I cant wait to hear the Torre/Girardi arguments. It will be awesome.
Don Vito… what happens when we don’t take care of the first 6?
skinny kitty frog
I think Billy Crystal could throw five innings.
NO PITCHING = NO PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR…”JUST THE FACTS MAM”
“Ms. Afterman, 50, is one of the most influential people in the executive suite of the world’s best-known sports franchise.”
50? aren’t assistant gms supposed to be young hungry ivy league number crunchers who are fighting their way up the ladder. how is having a 50 year old at a position that seems to be designed for young energy make sense? do the red sox ,cleveland,arizona,etc have 50 year old up and coming assistant gms? i don’t think it’s a good sign when your assistant gm is getting getting aarp card applications in the mail. and it certainly doesn’t help afterman that she seems to have been influential in igawa’s signing.
the yankees have one very strange front office.
of course they’d have to, to come up with a kei igawa. cashman is going to have to get rid of igawa not so much because he’s so bad, but because he’s so embarrassing personally to cashman.
it was fun watching the twins, with their bad gm, coming back and beating the red sox with key contributions form brendan harris, delmon young, and carlos gomez. oh yeah, all those players are young and just acquired over the winter by that dumb gm, bill smith.
not only is igawa embarrassing to cashman, but the twins, with their 50 million dollar payroll and being better than the yankees so far, are kind of an embarrassment too especially when run by a gm considered to be inferior to cashman (at least by most of the elite of this blog).
it’s tough to be a yankee fan in the spring. the good news is they will get better. hopefully it’ll be enough, but i’m not so sure this year. something doesn’t feel right about this team.
randy l -
I get what you’re saying - but, really, being 50 doesn’t necessarily equate with having no energy, nor with lacking creativity. Her attributes or lack thereof have nothing to do with her age. (I have to say, you just hit a nerve on that one!
)
the more young/inexperienced guys you throw out there the more duds you’ll get. Shelley Duncan is Shane Spencer all over again… a 4A player with occasional power. Betemit is a utility guy who will never play every day for a decent team. Igawa is apparently Japaenese for talentless man withdelusions of grandeur. None of those three should be on the roster another day.
Then again Ensberg is doing nothing and Molina is exposed when he plays every day. All the Yanks can do right now is try to tread water… stayin hailing distance and try to get healthy. An affordable 4th starter would be a worthwhile addition… Matsui to the Cubs for LHP Rich Hill makes sense to me.
If Betemit and Igawa were being showcased, then scouts in Comerica Park left holding their sides from laughing.
Neither one has more value than Hideki “Fat Toad” Irabu if the truth be known.
Daniel McCutchen and Alberto Gonzales are far more deserving.
doreen-
i was thinking when i wrote that i’d better be careful or doreen was going to zing me, but i’ll be 60 next summer so i can make jokes about age. we know that afterman has achieved a lot to be in the position that she’s in. i’m sure she’s someone to be respected, but the realities of the baseball workplace is that there has been a sea change in baseball management and front offices and youth has been a dominant trend in that.
i do also realize that i’m ironically using the twins who do do not have a young new with it front office. bill smith is afterman’s age. it just makes no sense to have a 50 year old assistant gm unless she’s going to get the gm job pronto. if she doesn’t she’ll be the only assistant gm collecting social security.
all kidding aside, the yankees really need to get with it in the front office or they are going to be left behind. we’re seeing some signs that they already are.
Are you really looking to blame the assistant GM for Igawa?
No one person is responsible for this disappointing performance. There is probably enough blame to be spread around. Ownership for wanting to react to the Dice K signing, the scouts who didn’t see flaws in his game or psyche, negotiators who set the dollar amount and player development who isn’t telling the team to cut their losses.
Being a GM/ assistant GM encompasses much more than what you see on the field. The more likely scenario with Afterman is she is more involved with the business end of the operation rather than talent evaluation of players.
“Ensberg is doing nothing and Molina is exposed when he plays every day.”
Ensberg fields his position competently, but it’s ridiculous to expect him to show to much offensively regularity; he doesn’t play every day. As for Molina being “exposed,” maybe you missed that throw to second from his knees the other night. Catchers are supposed to call a good game, block the plate, avoid passed balls and throw out runners. Offense is extra.
This isn’t MLB’08 The Show for PlayStation3.
randy 1:
Old age and treachery will overcome youth and inexperience every time
Randy l -
I guess it’s a touchy subject when you’ve just received your first membership card! (Tossed in the trash unopened, of course, because, well, I FEEL like I’m at least 20 years younger!!!)
Frankly, I’m at a loss to say exactly what Afterman does. And how did the Yankees let Ng go????
I know you are ardently interested in the administrative workings of the Yankees, just as SJ44 seems to be ardently interested in the developmental workings of the Yankees. They are different takes on the game than I usually have - more probative, less superficial. If the growing pains are the symptoms of the Yankees trying to become a more pro-active organizational around, they’ll be worth it.
It boggles the mind that they haven’t been, but when you think about it, when your ownership has always had knee-jerk reactions, wanting quick fixes to put a winner on the field, it really is not a surprise. What encourages me is that his sons both admit to leaving the organization earlier because they did not agree with their dad’s philosophy, which I am hopeful translates into their having more patience for long-term strategy.
Doreen:
50 is the new 40. That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.
murphydog -
Absolutely!!!!
(But I’d say 35 - vanity, you know.)
“Frankly, I’m at a loss to say exactly what Afterman does.”
I just want to clarify that this is not a knock on Afterman; it is a knock on myself.
Ground breaking news about Igawful.But you can’t blame anyone for bringing him back up one last time before pursuing a different venue. They had to see if he had learned/improved.
It does count for something that one of the new managing partners, or whatever the title is, Hal, is only 38 or 39. But really, aren’t we at a point in our social development where we realize age is pretty irrelevant?
Terry Ryan is no spring chicken but is regarded as one of the best talent evaluators and GMs of the last 10 to 15 years. He’s 55. Beane is 46. Omar Minaya will be 50 this year. Brian Sabean is around 50 and Cash is “only” 40 for goodness’ sake after ten years on the job. Theo Epstein certainly appears to be good at what he does, but youth is hardly a silver bullet for the front office.
I wonder how many of those balls up the third base line Gonzo would have had leather on though. Betemit is showing to be a poor defensive alternative.
I agree with the points made by others if we are going to lose bring up Gonzo and McCutheon.
Doreen:
My apologies. Of course, 35. I was speaking only in generalities.
If Igawa is still scheduled for Wednesday, it’s no different than throwing up a white flag. The Yankees will draw Shields for that game and he threw a gem at the Angels last night.
Aside from their speed, the Rays will throw righthanded hitting like Upton, Longoria, and Gomes to tee off and take batting practice against Igawa.
Igawa’s retarted
A Question for all you amateur scouts on the Yankees’ farm system:
Why haven’t I heard about Colin Curtis and/or Matt Carson before?
Carson evidently flourished in AA and just earned a promotion to AAA.
And despite the publicity A.Jax and Tabata, Curtis is currently outperforming both in AA.
Do the Yankees think highly of either of these two guys? Do scouts consider either major league caliber players?
That the worst third base play I’ve seen in a very long time from anyone wearing the Yankee pinstripes.
Chase Wright has pitched well in Trenton this year, including seven strong innings last night. I would rather see McCutchen or Horne, but the former is off his normal pitching day (as is IPK who I think they want to start one more time in Scranton) next Wednesday and Horne has one of those Yankee/CIA undisclosed injuries. As a stop-gap measure, I would throw Wright next Wednesday on his normal pitch day and then scramble from there (with off days after that they have time to maneuver). Of course, if IPK does well next start, he should be brought back as the more long term solution. Just pray that Rasner continues to be serviceable. If he reverts to his usual AAAA stuff, we will bw without 40% of our rotation again (like last year)– except this time we are also missing our two best hitters as well.
Don Vito, you really seem unknowledgable with posts like this.
“1) Igawa is no pitcher the NYY should ever let wear the uniform, let alone touch a baseball. Whoever in the organizations lets him pitch again is a complete idiot. If Hank is overruled on this, and you KNOW the HE never wants to see that SLUG pitch again, then we are in for some stupid moves for the rest of the year.”
Igawa sucks. I’d be surprised to see him make his next start. They should have traded him for a bag of balls when they had the chance.
“2) Duncan is a AAA star and hitting the ball hard counts for nothing. Looks at his actual numbers in the majors. Very bad. He needs to go.”
Absolutely incorrect - hitting the ball hard is -everything-. Hard hit balls have a nearly 60% chance of being hits. ‘Non’ hard hit balls have nearly a 20% chance of being a hit. I’d give him more than a month of part-time playing to close the book on him - whaddya say?
“3) Wilson is terrible. Another bad move. DFA him. Bring up a Minor Leaguer to take his place.”
I guess hit homerun the other day was just a fluke? He’s obviously crap defensively - he should definitely be a platoon guy from the left side only, but he’s got value.
“4) Britton is not the answer and so what if he goes up and down from MLB to AAA. There are worse things in life.”
:shrug:
“5) With Alby down, I truly hope I am wrong about what Hawkins can do, but there better be a backup plan”
There’s always a backup plan.
“6) for the #5 spot, if the Yankees don’t want to bring up a NEW Minor Leaguer ( IPK has proven to be right there with Duncan…a great AAA player that that is ALL )…then go out and “deal” for a #5 starter.”
IPK has proven to be a AAAA player? With all of one month under him? Wow, talk about a lack of patience. I wonder how good Maddux was in his first major league year? Not everyone’s Dwight Gooden. In fact, very few are.
“7) This team is going to be fine, once they just take care of all of the above and get A-Rod and Posada back. The BoSux are NOT that good and we can easily win the division.”
The BoSox ARE good, but they’re not a .750 team. They’ll finish with low-mid 90 wins, especially as the bullpen collapses (their big weakness).
Prediction: Chase Wright starts Wednesday against the Rays.
I think that Afterman’s claim to fame is scouting and getting Hideki Matsui to sign here. However that was a long time ago. She really missed badly on Igawa.
I find it interesting that in many cases of business the Assistant will usually move up if the boss leaves. In the case of Brian Cashman’s possible departure at the end of the season, nobody ever mentions Afterman (the Assistant GM).
Colin Curtis was a highly regarded draft pick, who was ok last year but really performed well in ST, both defensively and offensively, and is now over .300 in Trenton. Carson they got from another organization and he has just exploded so far this year. His numbers so far in Scranton are as good as Trenton (he went 4 for 6 his first game). He is older and who knows if it will last, but maybe he is just a late bloomer.
Thanks, Reality.
doreen-
what i’m mostly interested in is the yankees winning. i run a small business that i own. i am not an organizational expert by any means. jean afterman could run circles around me organizationally. but i think if you wanted to evaluate something on the field, i don’t think she’d be able to keep up.
that seems strange to me that i think i know more about the on field game than a yankee gm does. i realize that the yankees are a billion dollar organization and you don’t need on field experts in every position, but just take a look at peter woodfork, assistant gm at arizona. he’s a harvard grad, started on the baseball team there, was a
high school star in baseball and football .
woodfork is more like the prototypical new assistant gm that we are seeing in baseball. i don’t think i know more than he does about the on field part of the game. maybe afterman is just simply in the wrong position. maybe a key position in charge of the legal department might be more appropriate since she’s an attorney.
Its time to see what Mr Steven White can do.
Wednesday is a game I will not be watching or listening to if Igawa makes that start.I cannot or will not watch more or that garbage
At this point a 45 yr old David Wells would be easier on the stomach to watch then this guy.But I would give the younger guys a shot before I signed a David Wells: Wright,White,Jason Jones,McCutchen,P.Coke,G.Kontos,Marquez.
Reality Check
Matt Carson was drafted by the Yankees in 2002 fifth round.
I wonder if the Pirates are still interested in trading for Wilson Betemit???
randy:
Competence is competence, regardless of age. Ditto for incompetence.
Paul DePodesta was Beane’s right hand guy and a “lean and hungry” type, but failed on his own in LA despite his academic pedigree (Harvard, cum laude in economics) and devotion to empirical rather than 5 tool evaluations. He may have been more a victim of McCourt’s anti-moneyball tendencies than his own failures, but who knows.
But I doubt that Woodfork personally scouts players from the Pacific Rim, and, like Afterman, relies on field agents to make accurate and reliable evals. I say get better scouts, don’t fire the exec.
Rough game to watch last night. Especially frustrating 9th innnig.
I think Joe was pretty good after the game. Tried not to openly criticize Igawa and Betemit, while admitting all was not well. And he was honest in addressing Igawa’s scheduled next start Wednesday as “the plan”, because we all know plans change. And this one needs to be changed, big time.
They’ve given him plenty of time and opportunities. Kei Igawa “is what he is”, as the saying goes, and that’s most likely all that he will ever be. Running him out there again in 4 more days is throwing away another game.
I’d give Steven White a shot. He’s been in the organization a number of years, and it’s time to see what he has to offer at the big league level. If he can turn in a Rasner-type performance, then we’ll be ahead of the game, and it helps the Yanks get info to make a trade-or-keep decision on him, which they have to do at some point. He can’t possibly do worse than that batting practice display we saw last night.
Shelley needs more of a consistent opportunity. If, as the season progresses, he struggles, then I’d be interested in Matt Carson, assuming he keeps playing well at Scranton. But don’t write off Shelley yet. We have to at least give th kid an honest chance. Something Kei Igawa has already gotten.
Oh, I’m ready to move on from Wilson Betemit. Bring back the Attorney General.
“I think that Afterman’s claim to fame is scouting”
Pete wrote this on 5/5/08 in his entry about Cashman to Philly or Washington
“Assistant GM Jean Afterman has dealt largely with international affairs, legal matters and contract negotiations.”
Re: Jean Afterman - I think I read somewhere that her position is in legal and contractual affairs; nothing to do with evaluating ballplayers.
Why is every one giving Girardi a free pass?
Look at what he has done with Kennedy’s last start and Igawa’s? While its not all on the defense because they actually have to pitch, does it make any sense to take out Damon, put Betty in at 3rd when he doesn’t field well - nor hit well for that matter, put Matsui in Left in a huge field while the guy can’t run and cover the area?
When will people start to realize that while the Yankees are having their injury problems, which could be in part due to the over working they went through in ST, if they had a competant manager who actually put out the best defense when having questionable pitchers on the mound instead of setting them up for greater failure.
How can anyone say that putting Betty at 3rd over Ensberg was any kind of smart move? Add to that facing a lefty meaning Betty the wonder switch hitter will be batting from his worse side, instead of Ensberg who is a righty and can get more hits than Betty from that side of the plate?
How do you sit Damon down when he has been hitting pretty hot lately, but wait till the 9th to bring him in?
Bigger question. How do you send down the AG so Betty can come back up? Even if Gonzalez doesn’t hit all that well, guess what, it isn’t worse than Betty does. Big deal if Betemit hits for more power, the one or two hits he gets all season going further isn’t the answer.
Yes, there are pitching problems, but the larger problem is management decisions that are helping to bring in losses.
V,
just because you disagree with me on most of my points, does NOT make you smarter than I am, NOR does it make you right. Let’s see what happens by the end of this year to see if my OPINION ends up ringing closer to what is REALITY than you OPINION….deal ?
Girardi had no business starting Betemit last night against a lefty, despite his homerun the previous day.
Betemit has demonstrated time and again that he cannot hit from the right-side of the plate. And Ensberg has proved a better 3B defensively, at least thus far this season.
I actually like Betemit’s power from the left-side of the plate but if he can’t play short, is a mediocre 3B, and the Yankees won’t use him a 1B as a late-inning replacement, what purpose does he serve?
If Betemit has any trade value– supposedly the Pirates regard him highly– the Yankees should try to trade him for a middle-reliever and promote the AG.
So, if we’re all in agreement that the plan to have Igawa start again is going to be amended, who do you think is going to get called up as the next contestant?
i think Betemit’s the best overall option - he’s a decent fielder, and has some batting ability. Ensberg has looked poor, and hasn’t hit well since 2006, so the jury is out on whether he’s past his prime; AG is a SS - looks like a useful player, but not an everyday 3B
the line drives down the line - getting those would’ve been Brooks Robinson or Craig Nettles or Scott Brosius highlights. i don’t expect the average 3B to get to them. the real problem wasn’t the 3B IMO (or Girardi’s decision to play Betemit). it was Igawa throwing pitches that were hit hard.
Pat and Joe - Thanks for informing me. I know she was involved with bringing Matsui here and thought she was involved in scouting him.
So I guess then Cashman is fully to blame for the Igawa signing.
Did anyone else just listen to Evan Roberts. He nailed it all in his open. Talked about how the heck could the Yankees even think of starting Igawa that he stinks, and why didn’t they give the other kids in AAA or AA a shot, ran off the names of the players down there. Said the Yankees signed igawa as a reaction to the soxs signing Dice K.
“But besides that, they were pretty good” I wonder if something was lost in translation. Cause the first thing I thought was, ah, no, the rest of them were NOT pretty good. Two whiffs in 64 pitches — that is not “pretty good.” I hate to come down on the guy because he’s never gonna be Yankees caliber. What the heck was the FO thinking, bringing this guy up? Against the Tigers?
I’d rather see a kid from AAA come up and get smacked around than sit through another one of Igawa’s games.
The Yankees bottomed out at 21-29 in late May last year and fell 14 behind Boston. That ain’t happening this year.
All in all they’ve held together pretty well. Their BP is superior to Boston’s and when ARod returns the lineup looks much better overnight. They are just extremely vulnerable to even mediocre lefthanded piching right now.
Jennifer- I heard him and I agree. He is one of the few WFAN hosts that is fair to the Yanks even though he is a Met fan.
Just get a win today.
UtilityMan, my bad. To quote Hillary, I misremembered his baseball lineage. But his general non-prospect rep and the late bloomer point remain valid.
“the plan is for him to start, but I mean sometimes, thats that plan”
This quote says it all, he can’t say he isn’t starting, but by that quote he obviously doesn’t want him to.
murphydog-
as usual i enjoy your good natured barbs back at me at me, but i have to disagree with you here.
check this out:
“Afterman worked with Nomura from 1994-99, and the agency’s clients included Hideo Nomo, Hideki Irabu, Alfonso Soriano and Masato Yoshii. She is a a 1979 California graduate and earned her law degree from San Francisco in 1991.”Jean Afterman’s abilities as a lawyer and negotiator, as well as her expertise in the Far East can only strengthen the abilities of the New York Yankees,” Cashman said, ”
http://www.addictsports.com/baseball/showthread.php?t=2526
so afterman worked for a japanese agent . that’s her baseball experience, that’s a qualification for an assistant yankee gm? it’s a qualification for the legal department ,but i don’t see this qualifies her for an assistant gm job. somehow igawa slipped through the cracks.the fact afterman was the japanese expert raises questions about how much her influence on the final decision was.
don’t the yankees want young assistant gms more like woodfork who are good at player evaluations? i guess i’m really saying that afterman just seems to have the wrong job title.
this leads to the question why don’t the yankees have an assistant gm ( or more) who can do modern player evaluations using the latest technologies?
somehow, igawa slipped through the yankees organization and not the red sox ,cleveland,or arizona’s.
i think the yankees have to step it up at the assistant gm level. of course i’m using really old synapses and neurons to come up with that opinion so take it for what it’s worth.
Girardi on the DL
Girardi has a few choices to get offense out of Matsui and Giambi in the absence of Posada and Rodriquez that are difficult to make because neither are very good defensive players but either can help the team at the plate. I can’t blame him for sitting Damon occasionally for rest to keep him fresh. The truth of the matter is either Matsui or Giambi with on a glove on makes me very nervous as does Damon in centerfield. This is what happens when you become enamored with and sign FA offensive ball players and ignore defensive capabililities. And this situation is not likely to change this season.
ellen, as I said in an earlier post, Chase Wright would be on regular rest next Wednesday and he has pitched well in TRenton. I’d go with him for this one start.
Fran I know it shouldn’t impress me, but when you measure him up against the other dolts on wfan, it impressed me that he actually went to look and see who was in the yankees minor leagues, and spouted of Marquez, white as pitchers who should get a shot, said even though Marquez as an era of 6 I’d rather see him get a chance.
Sweeny Murti Fan
May 10th, 2008 at 9:46 am
“Igawa’s retarted”
Uhhhhh….. Anyone want a crack at this? I just feel bad even saying anything!
Prediction: On the upcoming 10th anniversary of Wells’ perfect game, the Yankees sign him to a 1 year, $5 mil deal. He works out in the minors for three to five weeks and is pitching for the Yankees early - mid June.
Season (2008) record: 22 starts…. 10-5 4.05 ERA
(fingers crossed– if all it takes is money, and not a trade chip, and all he wants is one year, DO IT! They need SP depth if they want to make a run at the post season.)
PS– Congrats today Rebecca Optimist Prime
Jennifer- Imagine, a sports talk radio host that actually knows about sports!
Pete hit the nail on the head…Igawa doesn’t get it. It was painful watching last night’s game. To think $46 m went for this is beyond description…I’m at a loss for words as to what to do…I think the japanese translation of cashman is literal…man who has the cash and will spend it on some hyped up pitcher. Igawa translates to english as batting practice pitcher…one who throws balls up for hitters.
What a Pacrim job; we got hosed in that deal.
IGAWA= DFA
Hank: Go ahead an go all Donald Trump on cash man
Igawa always has a completely different take on his performance than everybody else. In my view it makes his problem much worse. He wants to be, and thinks he is, a high zone throwing strikeout pitcher, and maybe he was in Japan. But it is obvious he is not capable of that here, and he is so far in denial that he won’t really change.
Which leads to the two burning questions regarding Friday night’s game. What was Igawa doing up here pitching, and what was Betemit doing at third against a left hander???
Igawa’s performance in Scranton certainly didn’t warrant a try against Detroit, but he certainly needs the best defense he could get. Seems like Ensberg at third with a lefty pitching is an obvious thing, doesn’t it?
Makes one think that playing Igawa and Betemit at third was to decide whether either of them belong here. Those two tryouts cost a game that maybe was winnable without them. Check back in September and see how that works out….
Bob
I don’t know, certainly I am not an expert. I do feel after watching Wilson fail at base #3 last night that the attorney general gives the team an overall improved opp to win. If not by his skills alone, I am sure he is better connected and could possibly buy off ( bribe) the redsox, indians,orioles,devilrays, tigers and who ever else he needs to, inorder to get us to ws in this last year.
His numbers do not require comment. They speak loud and clear.. This guy is not a major league pitcher.
While it may be true the Japanese do alot of things better than we do in this techno world, it just doesn’t seem to be pitching in bigs.
randy:
Gotta admit when I’m wrong. I haven’t researched Afterman that far. I only saw some interview with Cash where he was talking about her abilities as an agent in negotiating the rules and ways of MLB.
But I think that as a businessman yourself, you know that competence comes in all sizes, shapes, genders, colors and ages. If the Yankees need to toss up their front office it shouldn’t be just in response to Igawa or based on age. I could list a number of great acquisitions and moves by Cash, including Wang and Cano, Abreu, Matsui…
We lawyers like to say that tough cases make for bad law. Thus, one Igawa may not mean Afterman is a dunce. A $56 mil mistake would surely get you canned in a lot of places, but if this expense is categorized the right way, it belongs in Research and Development. R&D investments doesn’t always work out on a one-to-one basis.
All I’m really saying is they shouldn’t over react to one incident and headshoot Afterman. A process got them to Igawa and the process should be examined top to bottom. But, I guess that a top flight B-School guy or gal couldn’t hurt the front office.
Something about Wilson B, that makes me heart Miggy, You always got all Miggy had.
Feindsand:
Of Igawa’s 64 pitches, the Tigers took 23 of them for balls and made contact with 39 others, swinging and missing just twice during his outing. As bad as Igawa’s rookie season was last year, the 11 hits were the most allowed by the $46 million bust in his 15 big-league outings.
The lefthander was a bit delusional after the game, praising his command of the changeup and slider, saying his only problem was the inability to strike anybody out. “The result is part of baseball,” Igawa said through his interpreter. “It can happen in any game at any time. The next thing I would like to work on is getting more strikeouts.”
After reading this, and almost throwing up, it’s clear:
send him back to where he came from with those sunglasses inserted where the sun doesn’t shine.
Please tell me that translator is messing with us, because no one could be THAT thick!
Igawa is a disgrace to pinstripes, he shouldn’t be allowed to wear the uniform. It’s one thing to not do well, many players have had bad games, but it’s another to have low standards. That is NOT the Yankees way!
Don Vito,
You make some good points, but you are so wrong when it comes to Duncan. Anyone who has ever played this game knows that hitting the ball hard is everything for a hitter. That’s it. See the ball and hit it hard.
With 46M, KI could go out and buy some pitching lessons.
As for the AA guys pitching, I would like to see them get a chance. Don’t know how good someone will be until you give them an opportunity. That goes for anyone.
And Matt Carson, someone mentioned he is “older” - he is younger now than Shelley was when he got called up so, to me, age doesn’t matter. Shelley is not a bad player, he just needs more chances instead of this every few days stuff.
His breaking ball’s movement is “pretty good,” but the location is terrible. At least, Igawa still has confidence on his pitch. But, maybe he should listen what the manager say first!!
“With 46M, KI could go out and buy some pitching lessons.”
Igawa himself receives 20 million over 5 years. The 26 million bid for negotiating with Igawa went to the Hanshin Tigers.
I know, I was being sarcastic.
as Iggy goes, so goes the yanks.