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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


So, what about the 8th inning?

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 21, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Joe Girardi will say what he has to say, which is that the job will go to Kyle Farnsworth.

But that is hardly carved in stone. The idea that the eighth inning has to belong to one pitcher is ridiculous. The best way to approach the eighth inning (or the seventh inning, for that matter) is by matching up.

Edwar Ramirez has limitations. But he can be effective against lefties with his changeup. Farnsworth can be effective in doses. But you have to be careful about using him on consecutive days. I also think Ross Ohlendorf can be used in the late innings. He has been largely miscast as a long reliever this season. His power sinker can get a groundball in a big spot.

The name to remember is Mark Melancon. The player-development staff loves him and everybody who has dealt with him believes he can succeed in a late-inning role. He’s in Trenton now and I suspect he will be in Scranton by the All-Star break.

The Yankees also have J.B. Cox in the pipeline. Think of Humberto Sanchez for next season. He won’t be ready for MLB-level competition for another few months.

The easy thing for the Yankees to do would be to leave Chamberlain in the bullpen. He strikes guys out, he pumps his fist and everybody cheers. This move will create some anxious nights along the way.

But in the end, the Yankees will have a top-notch young starter and those are the most valuable commodities in baseball.

 
 

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125 Responses to “So, what about the 8th inning?”

  1. Jeff NJ May 21st, 2008 at 11:32 pm

    First try goes to Farnsy, then Veras, then Ramirez, then Robertson. Either way, things are more interesting in Yankee land tonight.

  2. S.A.- Welcome back Yankees Offense. Don't leave us! May 21st, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    See what Farnsy can do. If he makes us cry..we have options.

    Now we just need to get a win tomorrow. Get em Kennedy. I still think you can do this.

  3. D ( YANKEES FAN, who CARES what a BoSux Fan thinks ! ) May 21st, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    great post, Pete !

  4. ellen May 21st, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    And the Yankees did plenty of mix-and-match to get them through the late innings during the dynasty years. Remember Nelson and Stanton?

  5. JoeT - 28 IN 09!! May 21st, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    Jeff – I think you’re right there is Veras – he’s kind of viewed as the last guy in the pen (just above Britton with less frequent flyer miles). Every time he comes in he throws well.

    I’ve also been driving the Kyle Farnsworth bandwagon around for a while now, but he definitely has limitations with a second inning or back-to-back days. I’m not blind to that, but when used properly he has been mostly effective

  6. Aram May 21st, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    well said

  7. AndrewYF May 21st, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    While Melancon may or may not be the next closer, Cox will be the setup guy before long this season, and Kay will mention Jeff Nelson every time he comes into a game.

  8. JoeT - 28 IN 09!! May 21st, 2008 at 11:36 pm

    with** not is

  9. Simon B. May 21st, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    I’ve said this a thousand times, but I’ll say it again.

    Ohlendorf doesn’t have a power sinker! It’s an above-average 2-seamer now.

    He lost it when converting to the bullpen. It was never Wang-like—inducing only about 50% groundballs against minor leaguers which is not bad, but not particularly good for a guy who is billed as a “sinkerballer”. His slider is also very inconsistent.

    Edwar, has terrific stuff, but people couldn’t get past the poor 21 innings he pitched in his rookie year. He’s prone to a bit of butterflies, and I still noticing him losing his command sometimes even though he’s pitched very well this year, but he could be an excellent reliever.

    Note I said this all before the season even started.
    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....ent-277366

  10. Anthony May 21st, 2008 at 11:39 pm

    Good. I like it. The only problem here is that the bullpen is going to be a little hamstrung most of the time. Basically you’re removing a player from your roster spot 4 or so days a week.

    Girardi says they have a schedule as to how they use him. I’m assuming the schedule isn’t COMPLETELY inflexible, but to a large degree it has to be. This means Joba will be brought in to pitch multiple innings in games NO MATTER THE SITUATION. We’re losing 12-1 to Detroit, Joba’s gonna pitch three innings. Then the day or two before that, and the day or two after that, our bullpen is a man short.

    I don’t have a better solution, and I like the outside-the-box thinking, but yeah, there are gonna be a few anxious nights.

  11. Stormrider6 May 21st, 2008 at 11:40 pm

    All eyes are on IPK tomorrow night for sure. I hope he throws a beauty. I’ve seen people say next year would be something to the tune of Joba, Wang, Pettitte, Moose and Hughes or Rasner or Kennedy… I don’t know if Pettitte or Moose will be around that long. One of them might be gone, honestly, and having Hughes, IPK, and Rasner around to battle for rotation spots is a darn good thing for the future. There are a dozen other arms rising through the system as well – some of them will likely be traded to help fill gaps elsewhere – OF and 1B especially.

    It’s a good time to be a Yankee, even if the standings don’t show it yet.

  12. Andy Hawkins May 21st, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    If the Yankees hurry up and bring Melancon, Robertson and Cox up this month, Kay can call them Generation May.

  13. Doreen May 21st, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    Andy Hawkins -

    Now THAT was funny. :lol:

  14. Andy Hawkins May 21st, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    Simon, you really don’t think Ohlendorf has a power sinker? Really?

  15. Andy Hawkins May 21st, 2008 at 11:42 pm

    I try, Doreen. I try.

  16. gayle May 21st, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    Girardi aid much the same thing he did say Farnsowrth but ALSO said we will look at matchups so that tells me much like you say a lot will be based on who is at the plate, who is available etc etc

  17. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 21st, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    so Fatcessa will call for Joe’s firing tomorrow :lol:

  18. S.A.- Welcome back Yankees Offense. Don't leave us! May 21st, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Sports talk radio will be fun tomorrow. Francessa is gonna blow a gasket. :)

  19. Money Blanket May 21st, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    My biggest fear in all of this is what happens if Joba pulls an Ian Kennedy for his first starts? Will people start calling for Joba to be put back in the pen? Will Yankee brass listen?

  20. Johan Santana May 21st, 2008 at 11:50 pm

    I would have won 22 games for you guys as a seven inning pitcher with Joba in the 8th and Mo in the 9th.

  21. S.A.- Welcome back Yankees Offense. Don't leave us! May 21st, 2008 at 11:50 pm

    If I were Sweeny Murti..I would misplace my phone tomorrow

  22. EndLessMike May 21st, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    I don’t mind JOba as a starter(only if he is great not a #3 guy).But to think Edwar(who gives up to many homeruns),Kyle Fransworth(think 2005 postseason),Ross (6 Era) Ohlendorff is scary.

    People think that being a reliever is easy.But if it was that easy why haven’t we gotten a good one in the past 3 years.

    If Joba not a #1 starter then keep Joba in the BP.Because when Mariano leaves it’s worse then losing Posada and Jeter put together.Mark Mechlon and Humberto Sanchez is our only hope.

  23. Simon B. May 21st, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    Andy: Ohlendorf used to be a sinkerballer when he was a starter—not a premier one like Webb, Wang, or Carmona, but sort of a middling one like Jeff Marquez. He was having trouble in AAA, so they converted him to relief use. He gained several MPH, but the sink on the 2-seamer didn’t really return.

    The Yankee brass seems desperate to make something out of Ohlendorf so they promoted him last September even though he was still pitching poorly as a reliever. He pitched 6 decent innings that month and so the broadcasters and fanbase have jumped on Ohlendorf as if he’s some great talent. He has a hard fastball, but I think he needs more time in the minors to be an effective reliever.

  24. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 21st, 2008 at 11:53 pm

    “People think that being a reliever is easy.But if it was that easy why haven’t we gotten a good one in the past 3 years.”

    because they were never young and in thier prime, Gordon was at his end, Proctor was developed by us, he was a scrub in LA, the grand Tanyon’s arm was blown out, the kids in AAA and AA have sufficient stuff to get 3 outs.

  25. Blargh May 21st, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    Johan: So how’s life with the Mets?

  26. Phillip Hughes May 21st, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    Johan, I’ll win more games for the Yankees in my career than you will with the Mets.

  27. george May 21st, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    excellent thoughts by Pete. throw Veres in there too.

  28. Abepeter May 21st, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    Do the Yankees like upstaging Rasner? Last year he pitched 6 or so shut out innings, but that was the day they announced Clemens would be back. Today he pitches 7 shut out innings helping the Yankees snap a four game losing streak and its the day tht Joba begins the conversion.
    I know he said he likes flying under the radar, but jeez when your the third story (Joba, Arod) after a night like tonight… its pretty wild.

    Plus people have to stop with Aaron Small references. I mean I hope he wins like Small, but Small as a career minor leaguer in his thirties that had a dream run. Rasner is a former 2nd round draft pick, who has been injured the better part of two years. He has not spent much time at either AA or AAA. He’s a legit pitcher. Hopefully the Yankees don’t skip him anymore and just let him perform

  29. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 21st, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    :lol:

  30. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 21st, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    Now this is funny

  31. Andy Hawkins May 22nd, 2008 at 12:00 am

    Simon…Wow. That’s a harsh critique of Ohlendorf. I think he has a fantastic sinker. He gets a lot of groundballs. He throws really hard — I saw every start in Scranton last year, and I don’t think he’s a very good starter. But I think his stuff has translated pretty well. You’re never going to find a guy with Brandon Webb and Chien-Ming Wang’s sinkers. If you could, they wouldn’t be long relievers with the Yankees.

    EndlessMike…Edwar has a 0 ERA. How can you say he gives up too many homers? Also, Ohlendorf’s ERA is 5.6 because he has to eat up more innings than he should in long relief. He’s a much better pitcher than his numbers indicate.

  32. Money Blanket May 22nd, 2008 at 12:00 am

    endlessmike,

    I kinda hope Jeter retires in a few years. His defense is terrible and has been average in terms of hitting this year too. I’d hate to see this guy playing at age 40, it’d just be ugly.

  33. Andy Hawkins May 22nd, 2008 at 12:04 am

    Money…Jeter is hitting .310. That’s average?

    His defense has been better this year. One horrible throw doesn’t make for a bad defensive season. He has been getting to a lot of balls up the middle this season that he hasn’t gotten to in years past.

  34. YankeesLuv May 22nd, 2008 at 12:05 am

    Joba was going to end up a starter at some point so I guess why not now.

  35. Buddy Biancalana May 22nd, 2008 at 12:07 am

    Brandon-

    Well done, that was pretty funny!

  36. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 22nd, 2008 at 12:09 am

    that’s Nomaas

  37. AeroFANatic May 22nd, 2008 at 12:10 am

    Let’s see :

    Chamberlain is at 20 innings on the season. My BET would be that that for the next 48 games up until the All Star Break, we will see 30 more innings pitched. First, 2 innings every 3-4 days. Then, 3-4 innings every 5-6 days…

    With 50 IP at the all star break, Joba becomes a full time starter. 67 games in the REG season after the all star break. If Joba AVERAGES 6 innings in those 13-14 starts, that would put him right at 130 innings come playoff time (if they make it).

    So, if things break right….Joba will hit his 150 innings limit for 2008, in the World Series.

    I would imagine Farnsworth will get the 8th inning for now, and if he completely stinks up the joint it will become Olly/Hawkins until Melancon or Cox is ready to assume the role…

    The plans #’s seem to work out well….here is hoping for the best.

  38. michael May 22nd, 2008 at 12:12 am

    edwar ramirez isnt the answer. neither is fartsworth obviously. ohlendorf is spotty, but could develop. the answer needs to come from within like melancon or sanchez

  39. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! May 22nd, 2008 at 12:12 am

    Why is there always a debate about what’s more important, starting pitching or relief?

    I’m tired of this arguement-We need both to win!

    We’re not in the 1940’s or 50’s when pithcers went the distance…

    Today, it takes three or four pitchers to get through a game…they’re all important in my view…

    You have to have good starting pitching-that’s a given, but sub-par relief can destroy everything a starter has worked so hard to achieve…

    I remember the ‘96 Braves had outstanding starting pitching…but you know what I remember most about that series?

    Mark Wohlers failing in relief…

    It’s all situational…there may be big series where starting pitching is dominant and your side scores a bunch of runs and so relief is not as important…

    Then other times, there will be closer games where it will come down to who has the better bullpen…

    You must have good starting pitching AND good relief pitching, because you don’t know what situation you will find yourself in…

    Be prepared for all contingencies and you increase your chances of winning…

    Let’s hope that Joba is a great starter and whoever replaces him will be Joba-like…

    GO YANKS!!!!

  40. Jay May 22nd, 2008 at 12:13 am

    Actually the name to watch is David Robertson — you know, the relief pitcher who dominated the entire year and ISN’T coming off of arm surgery.

  41. Money Blanket May 22nd, 2008 at 12:15 am

    I haven’t seen him get any balls up the middle, not like other SS’s or like Cano does at second.

    And when you look at OBP and SLG, he’s pretty middle of the pack. His OPS+ is 114 (or so) with 100 being league average which is comparable to the Cubs’ Ryan Theriot and the Reds’ Jeff Keppinger.

    That doesn’t mean I don’t want him off the team, I just don’t want him getting a free pass because of his true yankee-ness and whatnot

  42. David May 22nd, 2008 at 12:18 am

    Money Blanket, in order to pull an Ian Kennedy, first, Joba’s fastball would have to drop to 85mph, then his slider would have to stop working, and, he would have to completely lose his control and nibble at hitters walking many of them. Is it really reasonable that all of those things can go wrong for Joba on a consistent basis? I highly doubt it. Bad starts are one thing, but Joba has so many weapons you can’t really see him getting tattooed like Ian Kennedy. Oh and I almost forgot, pulling an Ian Kennedy would require Joba to sport a 9 era.

  43. Yazman May 22nd, 2008 at 12:19 am

    I’m very glad they’ll stretch Joba mostly in MLB. Same principle at play in starter vs. reliever: maximize the kid’s innings where they count.

  44. Andy Hawkins May 22nd, 2008 at 12:20 am

    Money, watch the games. He has gotten to a bunch of balls behind the bag that I thought he never would have gotten to last year. As for your OBP, OPS and OPS+, who is he middle of the pack among? Shortstops? Everybody? He doesn’t have many homers, so obviously, he’s not going to have high OPS numbers. Have to ignore them largely with Jeter. That’s not where his value is. He’s a singles and doubles hitter.

  45. Jerkface May 22nd, 2008 at 12:21 am

    Aerofanatic:

    You don’t stretch a guy out over 48 days.

    O/U on # of starts by Joba in June is set at 2

  46. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! May 22nd, 2008 at 12:22 am

    Yazman,

    Absoulutely…we need his arm up here…he can make an impact in those games that they’re stretching him out, so it might not be so bad…

  47. Yazman May 22nd, 2008 at 12:23 am

    Farnsworth’s stats are worse than I’d perceived:

    -4 holds in 19 appearances
    -.293 BAA
    -.345 OBA
    -1.45 WHIP

    His K:BB isn’t bad at 2.71

  48. AeroFANatic May 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 am

    Disagree Jerkface. If he gets in the rotation in June, he’ll be at 150 innings in early sept. What do u do for late sept / playoffs?

    Thats why you stretch him out now until the ASB, and THEN he goes into the rotation fulll time.

  49. Eugie May 22nd, 2008 at 12:27 am

    AWESOME!! Now we get to watch Farnsworth BLOW LEADS in the 8th! What a genious game plan!

  50. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 22nd, 2008 at 12:29 am

    I told you he wanted to start

    General Manager Brian Cashman asked Chamberlain Tuesday in the Yankees clubhouse what role he preferred – starter or reliever.

    “I believe he can be a very successful performer in the rotation,” said Cashman, who did not offer a specific timetable for when he thought Chamberlain would be ready to start a game. “It was time for him to be a part of the process. I needed him to tell me what was in his heart. He said he liked to have an opportunity to start now.”

  51. Andy Hawkins May 22nd, 2008 at 12:31 am

    Eugie, there haven’t been many leads for anyone to blow in the eighth. Chamberlain is kind of a useless weapon as a reliever now, huh?

  52. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! May 22nd, 2008 at 12:33 am

    Brandon,

    Really, does it matter if he wants to start or not? What matters is what’s best for the team…

    Do you think if he had said he’d rather relieve, they would let him?

    Who’s the boss anyway?

    Obviously Yankee brass thinks this is better for the team…we’ll see…

    I’ll be convinced when he starts and pitches well, and his replacement in the bullpen is effective…

    Go Yanks!!!!

  53. Skippy May 22nd, 2008 at 12:34 am

    “The name to remember is Mark Melancon.”

    I can remember it, but can someone review the pronunciation? Is it Melanson? Melankon? Melankohn?

  54. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 22nd, 2008 at 12:36 am

    DYNASTY IS DESTINY! don’t get mad at me because you were wrong :lol:

  55. Eugie May 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 am

    “Eugie, there haven’t been many leads for anyone to blow in the eighth. Chamberlain is kind of a useless weapon as a reliever now, huh?”

    So why not Mo a starter too?

  56. Simon B. May 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 am

    Skippy: It’s mell-AWN-sun.

  57. G, Love May 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 am

    Great news and finally, a great game to go to tonight.

    I put Rasner down a ton in the off season calling him quad A all the time and I was wrong. The guy pitched his butt off tonight.

    I’m happy about Joba too. I think this could be the shot in the arm this team needs. He’ll be missed in the pen, but he’ll be way more valuable in the rotation.

    If we’ve learned anything over the past week, when the team is losing, it doesn’t matter who your setup and closer are.

    We need his arm to help us win games. Not save them when we’re already winning.

    And I guess I need to post trade Cano rants everyday since he finally decided to show up tonight.

    Finally, we need replay. Arod lost a HR tonight. I wonder if he was thinking about where that lost homer might place in history. Imagine he ends up tied with Bonds, lol.

  58. Simon B. May 22nd, 2008 at 12:38 am

    Or perhaps mell-AWN-son is a little more accurate.

  59. Eugie May 22nd, 2008 at 12:38 am

    Is this now the New York Joba’s or the New York Yankees? Are we focused on making Joba a starter or are we focused on winning?

  60. Big Papi says: May 22nd, 2008 at 12:40 am

    What’s the difference if Joba is a starter or reliever if you guys are 4 under 500, 7.5 behind us and it just getting worse every week.

  61. V May 22nd, 2008 at 12:41 am

    Dynasty is Destiny – if the Yankees could get one of these two pitchers for 2008 for FREE, who would you prefer? Johan Santana, or J. J. Putz?

  62. V May 22nd, 2008 at 12:42 am

    “Is this now the New York Joba’s or the New York Yankees? Are we focused on making Joba a starter or are we focused on winning?”

    Joba as a starter will lead to more wins than Joba as a reliever.

  63. David May 22nd, 2008 at 12:44 am

    Uh Eugie, the only way the Yankees were going anywhere this season is if Joba entered the starting rotation. With the current rotation, they would have lots of trouble making the playoffs and even if they did without Joba in the rotation we will have the same result in the playoffs as we have had the last few years with a big fat first round exist.

  64. Dr. Cox May 22nd, 2008 at 12:45 am

    “Joba as a starter will lead to more wins than Joba as a reliever.”

    Agreed. I dont see the arguement in this.

  65. stuart May 22nd, 2008 at 12:50 am

    if or when Kyle fails which I think will happen they have other options .the 3 studs in the minors supposively are very talented. they have veras, ramirez, ohlendorf, and others with good arms and a chance.

    joba has pitched like 20 innings why have your most talented pitcher(best stuff on the team) have 20 innings for the yr. and have Ohlendorf have more etc..

    I think Ohlendorf can be affective also, I think he is more effective with shorter stints, sounds weird because he was a starter but that is my take..

    this is good news…

  66. stevo May 22nd, 2008 at 12:51 am

    Oh Yeah that’s a good call, just make sure your partner Suzen yells with you Oh my Goodnes Grecious.

  67. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! May 22nd, 2008 at 12:53 am

    Brandon,

    Seriously, do you really believe it was Joba’s decision?

  68. 2000 was the end May 22nd, 2008 at 12:55 am

    Why are we getting so happy on one win? don’t you know Kennedy is pitching tomorrow and then Bedard against Pettitte and King Felix against Wang that means 3 straight losses the way things have gone thus far.

  69. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 22nd, 2008 at 12:55 am

    it sure wasn’t his decision to be a trooper and go into the BP role, this has always been where they planned to put him, they just also asked him to verify it.

  70. Eugie May 22nd, 2008 at 12:57 am

    “Uh Eugie, the only way the Yankees were going anywhere this season is if Joba entered the starting rotation. With the current rotation, they would have lots of trouble making the playoffs and even if they did without Joba in the rotation we will have the same result in the playoffs as we have had the last few years with a big fat first round exist.”

    Right, I forgot. Joba pitches 9 scoreless innings every 5 days.

  71. Joba fan May 22nd, 2008 at 12:57 am

    it wasn’t Joba’s decision but Joba wanted to be a starter although the Yankees are doing what’s best for them.

  72. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! May 22nd, 2008 at 12:58 am

    Dr. Cox,

    And you don’t think that some of Joba’s starts will be blown by inneffective late inning relief?

    And what about Pettitte’s starts that would have been saved by that killer combination of Joba + Mo…

    And Wang’s and Mussina, etc…

    If Joba’s replacement isn’t adequate, that could have a detrimental effect on Mo as well…

    It’s not clear yet what will result…

  73. Andy Hawkins May 22nd, 2008 at 12:58 am

    Eugie…focus is on putting the best team on the field. Joba is one of the top young prospects in the game. You say, “Why not put Mo in the rotation.” Funny. But with your argument, why not put Pettitte and Wang in the bullpen. Starters are more important, plain and simple.

  74. Jerkface May 22nd, 2008 at 1:00 am

    Aero:

    Cashman has already said that they will ignore innings limits to win the world series.

    Joba will get 20 starts, in the regular season.

  75. Eugie May 22nd, 2008 at 1:04 am

    “Eugie…focus is on putting the best team on the field. Joba is one of the top young prospects in the game. You say, “Why not put Mo in the rotation.” Funny. But with your argument, why not put Pettitte and Wang in the bullpen. Starters are more important, plain and simple.”

    That wasn’t my argument.

  76. hmmm May 22nd, 2008 at 1:04 am

    Brandon you’re a funny guy, how about you put up how many hits Kennedy has given up, why pick Santana and his HR’s most great strikeout pitchers are given up HR’s. (Actually your entire handle name is weird, might be you are too).

  77. Eugie May 22nd, 2008 at 1:05 am

    “there haven’t been many leads for anyone to blow in the eighth. Chamberlain is kind of a useless weapon as a reliever now, huh?”

    Mo as a starter was in response to that.

  78. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 22nd, 2008 at 1:06 am

    like I give a damn what you closet Met fans have to say :lol:

  79. CanIGetAMooseCall May 22nd, 2008 at 1:07 am

    This is a huge mistake. Joba is built for the pen. He’s a natural born closer. He should stay in the pen.

  80. Jerkface May 22nd, 2008 at 1:08 am

    Hmm:

    Perhaps because Kennedy isn’t the ‘greatest modern day pitcher’ who is striking out less, with a higher WHIP, while giving up HRs at a rate much greater than ever in a league supposedly weaker??

    I find it absolutely funny.

  81. Jerkface May 22nd, 2008 at 1:09 am

    MooseCall:

    What makes you say that he is built for the pen?

    Is it his 4 above average-> plus plus major league ready pitches?

    Is it his 97 mph fastball holding strong 7 innings into a shut out?

    Is it the smarty pants brains that helped him to dominate every level of the minors as a starter?

    Is that what makes him the perfect bullpen pitcher?

  82. David May 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 am

    lol Eugie, he doesn’t have to pitch 9 scoreless innings every 5 days, to be an improvement he has to pitch to better than a NINE ERA. That’s the Yankees 5th starter right now. A pitcher with a 9 era. You’re replacing him with a projected ace.

  83. CanIGetAMooseCall May 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 am

    Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Rasner, Hughes, Kennedy, and now Joba? That’s seven starters. Even if you assume that Rasner won’t stick around for long, the move of Joba to the rotation means that the Yanks aren’t expecting anything more this year from Hughes or Kennedy.

  84. hmmm May 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 am

    I know you’re jealous about us having santana, but don’t worry Joba will be good enough in the starting rotation. (maybe by the of the year your handle name will read:
    Brandon (suporting Alex being Alex) (Joba HR’s allowed 23).

  85. Yazman May 22nd, 2008 at 1:11 am

    Anyone try projecting the Yanks’ stats this year to 600 ABs?

    R/HR/RBI

    Damon 102/18/70 (18 SBs)
    Giambi 90/42/112 (only 40 HR, only 100 RBI projection on NYY)
    Melky 64/24/76

    Cano, Molina, Ensberg, Duncan: don’t even ask

    (prior to tonight)

  86. Andy Hawkins May 22nd, 2008 at 1:12 am

    Eugie…I know what you were responding to. And I know you’re argument: You’d rather shore up one inning than the first seven. To me, it’s just strange thinking on your part.

    Anyone who saw Santana on Saturday and DOESN’T think he’s starting to enter the downside of his career isn’t paying attention. They guy doesn’t throw as hard, and people are sitting on his change-up. He’s going to have to come up with a third pitch, or by the time he’s 35, he’s going to be a .500 pitcher.

  87. Skippy May 22nd, 2008 at 1:12 am

    Thank you, Simon B.–didn’t want to sound like an idiot if I talked about Melancon to anyone.

  88. Yazman May 22nd, 2008 at 1:12 am

    I’m wrong: Posada projects to 105 RBIs if he had 600 ABs

  89. Eugie May 22nd, 2008 at 1:13 am

    In response to Joba wanting to be a starter:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....ving_self/

    So did he, and I wish he did become one.

  90. Jerkface May 22nd, 2008 at 1:14 am

    Andy Hawkins:

    Santana has a third pitch, a slider, that he can’t throw because his elbow will blow out :) ))))

    Also Joba is a groundball pitcher. See, thats what makes him the ultimate #1, he is a strike out ground out pitcher.

    Santana is a fly ball strike out pitcher.

  91. Buddy Biancalana May 22nd, 2008 at 1:14 am

    Brandon-

    Sounds like a Hmmm impersonator.

  92. Jerkface May 22nd, 2008 at 1:16 am

    Eugie:

    Mo is not a starter because he doesn’t have the weapons. He was already tried as a starter.

    Papelbon is no longer a starter because his shoulder couldnt hold up to it and his stuff is better in the 9th. And he was a closer turned starter in the minors.

    Joba has always been a starter with dominating stuff. You don’t put him in the bullpen. You let him fail as a starter before you do that.

  93. Andy Hawkins May 22nd, 2008 at 1:17 am

    That’s the key, Jerkface. You can always convert a starter to the pen, but it’s not easy to convert a reliever into a starter.

  94. Yankee2 May 22nd, 2008 at 1:17 am

    I always hated Brandon I think he’s a racist if I’m not mistaken.

  95. Eugie May 22nd, 2008 at 1:18 am

    “Eugie…I know what you were responding to. And I know you’re argument: You’d rather shore up one inning than the first seven. To me, it’s just strange thinking on your part.”

    The average starter lasts 6 innings. Everyone has a 100ish give or take pitch count. Today’s game is different than yesterdays. A strong pen is just as important as the rotation. I would be more ok with the move if they replaced him with someone legitimate. All they did was make another hole.

  96. S.A.- Welcome back Yankees Offense. Don't leave us! May 22nd, 2008 at 1:18 am

    “I always hated Brandon I think he’s a racist if I’m not mistaken.”

    Congrats. You are mistaken.

  97. Yankee2 May 22nd, 2008 at 1:20 am

    Well he does have some racial comments every once in a while.

  98. hmmm May 22nd, 2008 at 1:22 am

    He picked Santan’s HR allowed count because he’s a racist, period.

  99. Buddy Biancalana May 22nd, 2008 at 1:24 am

    hmmm, Yankee2 & jo jo are all the same person, let’s zap ‘em from the blog.

  100. Andy Hawkins May 22nd, 2008 at 1:24 am

    Eugie…The operative word is “Average” starter. The Yankees think he’s going to be above average someday. Just like they think Hughes will be above average someday. They created a hole now, perhaps. But they can fill that at some point — either by finding a kid in the system, or in free agency or by trade. It’s easier to find a Jeff Nelson than it is a Roger Clemens. The Yankees think Joba can be a Clemens-type of pitcher, but the time is now to work him into that role. At the rate he’s going, he was going to pitch about 70 innings if he stayed in that pen. That’s a waste of a year, when what they really want him to do is start. I think too many people are looknig at this like the Yanks are trying to improve now. Maybe they’ll improve a little, but this is the ultimate long-term move. Not saying they’re giving up on this year, but this move is for ’09 and beyond. If that means some anxious 8th innings, so be it.

  101. stevo May 22nd, 2008 at 1:25 am

    I don’t think Brandon is a racist, but neither is he too smart, his comments aint racial but not too readable.

  102. Andy Hawkins May 22nd, 2008 at 1:25 am

    Really Buddy? I thought it was three different idiots.

  103. Buddy Biancalana May 22nd, 2008 at 1:27 am

    stevo-

    You hooked on phonics?

  104. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 22nd, 2008 at 1:28 am

    Jerkface, it’s amazing how they don’t even know Papelbon was never a SP until the Red Sox organization converted him prior to that in Mississippi he was predominantly a relief pitcher meaning his first innings of stress came yr.1 in the Sox’s minor league system.

    Also it’s not about him repeating his mechanics he can do that already, the tasks is him building endurance that he has BTW to push off a mound 100 times or more in a game each week.

  105. Buddy Biancalana May 22nd, 2008 at 1:28 am

    Andy-

    You take on Eugie, I’ll take on the idiots.

  106. Jeter's future boy May 22nd, 2008 at 1:29 am

    How about we trade shelley for an 8th inning guy I think he has enough value? (by the way I never liked Brandon but leave him alone for God’s sake).

  107. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 22nd, 2008 at 1:30 am

    “He picked Santan’s HR allowed count because he’s a racist, period.”

    you do know I’m latino bruto

  108. Buddy Biancalana May 22nd, 2008 at 1:30 am

    Brandon, I say you add 3 more bombs to Johan’s HR count before the Met game even starts tomorrow.

  109. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! May 22nd, 2008 at 1:33 am

    You know what I wish?

    It’s the post season and we have the following combinations:

    Santana + Wang + Pettitte as our starting rotation…

    Joba + Mo in the pen…

    Seriously, isn’t it better than this:

    Joba + Wang + Pettitte as our starters…

    Farnsworth + Mo in the pen…

  110. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 11 ) May 22nd, 2008 at 1:34 am

    Buddy, Chipper might not play tonight so we’ll see, I get to see Yunel hit tomorrow :D

  111. RustyJohn May 22nd, 2008 at 1:34 am

    In all my years as a Yankee fan I have never seen the farm system have this much pitching available. They are going to have so many arms next year it will be sick.

    Just looking at the pen now- Who knows if Ohlendorf will be successful if he wasn’t dumped into this long reliever role, but Edwar hasn’t given up a run all season, Veras is good and we’ll see about the guys Pete mentioned in his post.

    On top of that don’t forget Albaldejo (don’t know when he will be back this year), Britton (there can be no justice until Britton returns to the majors), Bruney may be out all year but figures in the mix next year, Karstens is coming back and it is yet to be determined if he is a AAAA player or legit back of the rotation major leaguer, Dan Giese has been lights out in the minors.

    For starters next year there’s IPK, Hughes, and Joba plus Alan Horne in the mix as starters next year. Chase Wright is still in AA and whether he’ll be successful at the MLB level is questionable but he’s been pretty good at Trenton this year.

    The fact that next year the rotation and bullpen can be filled with completely homegrown and cheap talent is unreal. Next year Farnsowrth and Hawkins come off the books as does Andy and Moose. Outside of Mo, the highest paid pitcher would be Wang at like $4.5 million. The rest of these guys are making at or just above league minimum. Anyone who thinks Cashman should be fired ought to think about that before espousing such inane ideas.

    What does that leave? A buttload of pitchers to fight for spots or get traded for younger, cheaper position players than they have now. I think we can fill 1st base and a couple of outfield positions with the dozen or so at or near MLB ready arms floating around in the system.

    If the team doesn’t make the playoffs this year, who cares. They have the possible talent to be a very young, very good team a year or two from now…dare I say dynasty?

  112. Tony from Yonkers May 22nd, 2008 at 1:35 am

    Brandon is an interesting guy but so are you so please shut up, I personally don’t like him so I’m not reading his comments but why talk against him.

  113. RustyJohn May 22nd, 2008 at 1:40 am

    As far as who moves when Joba is ready to go to the rotation, who knows- for all we know Pettite will blow out his elbow, Moose will suck it up like he did last night or IPK doesn’t pan out. Right now do you demote Rasner? Hell no. I’d say it would either be IPK being demoted or Moose to the pen leaving a rotation of Wang, Pettite, Joba, Rasner and Hughes. This assumes Hughes heals up and Rasner remains lights out, of course.

  114. Franco (supporting Reyes being Reyes). (Brandon's IQ count: 37). May 22nd, 2008 at 1:42 am

    I think the Mets are slowly but surely taking over New York.

  115. Briteny May 22nd, 2008 at 1:46 am

    Brandon is a normal member here. I can understand your feelings. I’d say he should put A-Rod’s career HR count instead of Santana’s HR allowed count.

  116. Nick in SF May 22nd, 2008 at 2:00 am

    “You know what I wish?
    It’s the post season and we have the following combinations:
    Santana + Wang + Pettitte as our starting rotation”

    Why stop there? I wish we had Whitey Ford, Don Larson and Ron Guidry! Let Babe Ruth start a game too, he was pretty good!

    Oh wait, you picked a non-Yankee. Ok, I with we had Bob Gibson and Sandy Koufax too!

  117. Jane May 22nd, 2008 at 2:00 am

    “I think the Mets are slowly but surely taking over New York. ” :lol: Hilarious. :lol:

  118. V May 22nd, 2008 at 2:09 am

    “Dr. Cox,

    And you don’t think that some of Joba’s starts will be blown by inneffective late inning relief?

    And what about Pettitte’s starts that would have been saved by that killer combination of Joba + Mo…

    And Wang’s and Mussina, etc…

    If Joba’s replacement isn’t adequate, that could have a detrimental effect on Mo as well…

    It’s not clear yet what will result…”

    You mean the Pettitte blowups where he allowed a bunch of runs and the Yankees didn’t score? Yeah, that killer Joba+Mo combo did a lot of good.

    Who would you rather have, everything else the same? Johan Santana, or J.J. Putz? Both were excellent last year.

    Santana is worth a LOT more than Putz.

  119. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! May 22nd, 2008 at 2:19 am

    Dr. Cox,

    In ’96 in the WS we faced a Braves’ pitching staff that had 3 future Hall of Famers…Glavine, Smoltz and Maddox if memory serves me correctly…

    Did we have even one starter back then that was a future Hall of Famer?

    Who won that WS?

    But as I recall, we had a helluva bullpen, including a future Hall of Fame reliever who was the setup man that year…

    Oh yeah, and we won!!!!!

  120. Nick in SF May 22nd, 2008 at 2:37 am

    Dynasty, you’re not even trying to make a coherent argument, unless you’re saying that the greater the number of future Hall of Famers there are in a rotation the more likely it is that the Yankees will beat that team in the Series. We also had great starting pitching in the 96 Series to get games to Wettelend and in 98-2000 to get games to Mo.

    Now if we’re talking future Hall of Famers, Mo is one for sure. How many rings did Mo win from 2001 through 2007? How many closers from the World Series winners from 2001 through 2007 are Hall of Famers?

    Hey, who was the closer for the Padres when we beat them in the WS? I think it was Trevor Hoffman. Great closer, right? How many games did he save in that Series?

  121. DYNASTY IS DESTINY! May 22nd, 2008 at 2:56 am

    Nick in SF,

    I’m merely suggesting that great starting pitching is no guarantee that you will win it all…

    Naturally it increases the odds-it’s vital-you can’t expect to win without good starting pitching…but if you try to make your starting pitching stronger by weakening the back end, which I believe will happen here, then where are you?

    If you lose in the 3rd inning or the 8th inning what’s the difference?

    Do you think it’s going to be easy to replicate Joba + Mo?

    Really? Hopefully, because then we’ll have Joba as a starter and a reliever of the same caliber which would be ideal…

    Bottom line: We’re trying to make our starting pitching stronger (which we need) by making our bullpen weaker (which we do not need)

    I disagree with this approach, but as a Yankee fan, I hope I’m wrong!

    GO YANKS!!!!

  122. james May 22nd, 2008 at 3:20 am

    Mo wasn’t a failed starter in the off season 95 into 96 he was going to be the 5th starter until George Steinbrenner invited to Spring Training his two favorite things in the world all rolled into one man a former Met World Champion and Tampa native Doc Gooden. Rivera out pitched him in Spring Training in a sham “competition” but Doc was good so Mo was made the long man and quickly became the set up man and the rest is history. Ian Kennedy has had more Starts than Rivera and Mo was better in his so is it time to to write off IPK, how about Phil Hughes. The Man had 10 Starts and wasn’t given a chance to show what kind of starter he would have been and now we will never know.

  123. james May 22nd, 2008 at 3:24 am

    Alright I lied (just checked) IPK has had 9 starts so he better be awesome tonight or he should realize hes a failed starter and retire.

  124. rover May 22nd, 2008 at 9:11 am

    The game of baseball should be renamed. What comes to mind first for me is “Major League Crap Shooting”

  125. bodhisattva May 22nd, 2008 at 10:47 am

    Yankee People (Only):

    Somebody asked here why so much excitement over one win.

    ARod back, Rasner the eye of the storm, Tabata/AJax flexing some power, Montero & Charleston ridiculous offense, Melancon, Cox moving up, Joba going into rotation, Jorge going to Trenton….

    Feels like Christmas in May.
    Go Yanks!


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