Today in The Journal News
-
- May
- 21
A-Rod came back last night but Derek Jeter was injured and the losing continued for the Yankees. Brian Heyman has the story.
Edwar Ramirez got some good advice over the winter. This notebook also has news on Darrell Rasner and Chris Britton.
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So let me get this straight, Derek Jeter gets hit on the hand in the third inning and in the sixth inning LaTroy Hawkins decided to hit Luke Scott and missed twice before getting ejected?
So now Hawkins will join Melky Cabrera, Shelley Duncan and Kyle Farnsworth as players who have been suspended this season. Well, at least the Yankees lead the league in something.
The book on Jeter is to pitch him inside because he dives over the plate as he swings. Every pitcher knows this and Jeter knows this best of all. Getting hit is a cost of doing business for him. Jeter has been hit by a pitch 132 times in his career and the vast majority have not been on purpose. Watch him swing the bat.
If the Yankees retaliate every time Jeter gets hit, they’re going to run out of pitchers.
UPDATE, 2:45 p.m.: Of course the rabid dog posters who think baseball is wrestling totally didn’t understand what I wrote.
If another pitcher hits Jeter on purpose, then by all means the Yankees should retaliate.
But Cabrera was clearly not doing that. Any pitcher, including Yankee pitchers, have the right to pitch inside. When Jeter dives in and commits to a pitch, he’s going to get hit sometimes. Or do you really think that 132 times he has been hit were intentional?
I’m all in favor of the team taking care of matters that need to be taken care of. But that doesn’t mean every HBP is a call to arms. Or spikes if you’re Shelley Duncan.
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on Wednesday, May 21st, 2008 at 2:40 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
Damn straight the Yankees should retaliate when Jeter gets hit. Yes, Jeter dives over the plate, but it’s not okay for teams to be busting the captain up and in.
Another day another Yankees loss…Wake me when its football season..Go Giants!!!
Now that was an ugly defensive game.
Jeter’s error in the first cost the Yanks the game…of course Moose should have gotten one more out, so it’s not all his fault.
The very next inning Jeter grounds into a double play…ouch.
That’s when I knew (or thought) that the game was over…
Not a good game by our captain.
But at least we’ve got A-Rod back – wooooooooooo! And he started producing big time right away…
Edwar is made of awesome! More Edwar stories!
I want to see Edwar in pressure games! Not just Joba, Farny, and Mo. Lets go Edwar!
The Yankees pitchers should take some acting lessons. They need to have the capability to plunk whomever they want while make home plate umpires believe that’s a accident.
Spoken like a true Red Sox fan…
My feeling is the Yankees have to retaliate every single time their stars get hit. Particularly when it’s 9-0 and the pitch is very clearly up and in.
If we’re going to lose, that’s baseball and I can live with it. But we don’t have to take that cr@p on top of it. A rebuilding year is a great opportunity to establish ourselves as willing and able to protect our own. If a pitch is thrown such that our guy can’t get out of the way… well you better stay on your toes.
And Boston-Pete they may have been the ‘greatest team ever’ but they went 18 and 1 GIANT loss!
its called baseball and called protecting your stars and its something the yankees lacked for the past few years.
Is anyone going to complain about Papelbon and his fist pumping last night. I’m shocked that the media hasn’t created a controversy about it yet. Joba caught so much cr@p for it shouldn’t Pap?
When is Scott Patterson getting called up? He hasn’t given up run in his last 10 outings or so covering about a month. Working on season number THREE of dominating AA or AAA.
Pete…yes, unless the pitch is actually over the strike zone, then evertime Jeter gets hit, the Yankees should retaliate. It’s like Jim Kaat used to show…if you are going to pitch inside, you’d better have control. If Cabrera is going to come up and in (and that pitch was not close to the plate) during a 9-0 game no less, he’d better have more control. Otherwise, his players will face the music. Actually sticking up for themselves is the only thing this team has done right this year.
Forget Papelbon…did anyone see Krod’s reaction to his save against the Jays? He let out a scream that made Joba’s look like a wimper, pumped his fist until he struck oil and then extended his arms and looked skyward as if expecting to ascend directly to heaven.
Pete its a little difficult to see Jeter get hit where he did and not hope to see retaliation. Does he jump over the plate, yes, but if we saw Ortiz get hit there I have a feeling the Redsox would retaliate. The head is the wrong area, I would of preferred to see Millar get drilled in the butt twice.
And there is our problem. Jeter can get hit ALL FRIGGIN’ day, intentional or not, but IF the Yankees protect him, our pitcher is 99% of the time ejected and suspended. Who is that icehole handling all those suspensions again ?
Last night’s retaliation was justifed. Jeter gets hit many times with balls that a barely off the plate because of his hitting style. Last night was a case of a pitcher who has devastating stuff but suspect command.
Hawkins two pitches were “messages” and were in no way even close to Scott’s head. The ejection, however, was necessary because Hawkins seemed like he wanted to send “messages” until the benches would empty – perhaps to light a spark under his Team and its pathetic performance over the last week.
Damon and Giambi definitely need to go – they’ll hit for 3-4 days and then slump badly for 2-3 weeks. Damon may be tradeable during one of his hot streaks. Giambi, however, needs to be paid off and sent packing.
I’m sure Cashman can engineer a minor deal to pick up a temporary answer to 1st base. Either that or convince Jorge’ to play there.
Maybe a shakeup like that would wake this team up!
What Will said but I’d also add that Hawkins, like Cabrera, needed to be sure of his control too.
Here’s the thing about Damon and Giambi last night. Giambi got 2 hits, and although one looked “lucky” the other was a true hit, and both were to the left side of second base. He also made a couple of decent defensive plays yesterday. Damon had a hit, and then hit the ball hard right at people the rest of the night. The last one, especially, looked like it should have been a hit, but the second baseman made a great play on it. His error in the field was atrocious, and he missed diving after a ball which resulted in the triple, but no one can say he didn’t bust it.
So, you have two guys who maybe are not getting the results the Yankees need, but neither one of them is “dogging it.” Right now Cano is the one player who looks the worst. He looks lost at the plate. I thought that 4 for 4 day was going to help him snap out of this, but it hasn’t. Not getting over to second base last night wasn’t a good thing, either. And later in the game, I guess he was anticipating a double play, but misplayed the ball and only got one out. That won’t be an error on the scoreboard, but it sure didn’t look smooth. How do you get him going? You hear that he continues to work with Kevin Long, but so far, there’s no in-game result. It surely looks like he’s down on himself, so how do you build a guy up?
Today’s another new day. Another chance to get back on track, one game at a time. They need a good, clean, crisp game that ends in their favor. And soon.
I, too, must disagree Pete.
When you’re getting killed for the second straight game, and youe captain leaves with an injury, it’s time to do SOMETHING.
LaTroy pitching up and in can only help give the Yankees some fire. Why not?
Last nights and early am posting was brutal. Please don’t lose another game Yankees. Wow, if that had been a bar, a lot of people would have gotten hurt.
I must say; I am very disappointed in the team this year. One could say they are getting to old/slow to hit the fastball, to old/slow to run/play good defence. If one agrees with this Old/Slow axiom, why wast the season, try something different. Rather then give up on the team, trim it, as soon as possible. From Joe D., Vic Raschi, Yogi, Allie Reynolds on down the line, I’ve seen this team play…but I’ve never seen them give up on themselves or play so flat for so long. They have had bad teams, but not like this. Maybe I am getting to old to understand…I was a very very bad loser, still am. I would like to see some fire out there, not just puffing up your chest. Knock a batter on his butt once in awhile, no need to hit them. 27/08?
of all the things that happened last night, cano not covering 2nd base irked me the most. ok, so he’s slumping at the plate, but everybody says he’s trying hard, so you have no choice but to wait it out. but not covering your base? was that ‘trying too hard?’ to me its pretty inexcusable.
One thing I notice about this team is that the on base percentages are no where they use to be. In fact some of them are very close to their batting averages. I think they have to start working counts and taking walks. This is how you win.And then turn the pitching around. This can be done.
I do have to say, though, that at least there is no public sniping on the Yankees among teammates. Neither Mussina nor Jeter would point fingers elsewhere, and in the post-game, I don’t know if anyone else noticed, but Jeter’s answer about the error play in the first made it subtly clear he was not going to talk about anyone else’s play, just his own.
I think the Yankees need another “HA” game. Good thing ARod’s back.
Rick…
Good idea, only thing is…the pitchers are throwing 1st/2nd pitch fastballs right down the middle. When you are constantly 0-2 or 1-2, you are in trouble, therefore you can’t work the count…the pitcher is working you. 27/08?
(1) I’ve posted before that I think that Papelbon’s reactions can be over the top, but let’s not lose sight of the game situation which precipitated the negativity towards Joba’s fist pump …. eighth inning, two out, bases empty, three run lead.
Last night, Papelbon came in with the bases loaded in a one run game …. VERY different game situation.
It’s simple: the emotional outburst should be proportionate to the game situation.
(2) Jeter has a unique hitting style wherein he pushes his hands into the strike zone and then “flips” the bat in order to have the head of the bat catch up (see page 40 of the 5/19 Sporting News, if you don’t believe me). Combining this fact with the fact that he strides into home plate, he has a lot of troube getting his hands out of the way. It’s very hard for him to rotate his body so that his back and shoulder protect his hands. Jeter knows this, and it’s not just stoicism that precludes him from going after opposing pitchers after he’s been hit.
I understand the frustration of Yankee fans, but Pete has it right. It’s no accident that Jeter has been hit so many time, but it’s not brcause pitchers are trying to plunk him.
Pete-
you couldn’t be more wrong. I guarantee if Mike Timlin did this after Manny Ramirez got ‘pitched up and in’- it would be a matter of doing the ‘right thing’. They may need to pitch him inside to keep him off the plate- but that pitch way a good 6-8 inches OFF the plate. It was definitely a purpose pitch and Hawkins did the proper thing by sending a purpose pitch back there way. The only things he did wrong were missing with the first pitch and throwing the second pitch too high (at his head). Hit him in the hip/back and no one should even be able to complain about this.
This was not the standard Jeter HBP insomuch as it had nothing to do with him diving over the plate. Recall the Pedro episode where he hit Jeter and Soriano?? Those were both hanging over the plate HBP’s. Last night was high, tight and well off the plate. Wish Hawkins came down a little lower on his retaliatory effort, but I’ve got ZERO problem with him doing it.
“of all the things that happened last night, cano not covering 2nd base irked me the most”
Agree 100%. For all the fun we poke at the midget up in Boston, I’ll take a 2B with no hair over the 2B with no heart.
Brian-
with all due respect- you couldn’t be more wrong here either. they aren’t ‘trying’ to plunk him- but they are definitely pitching him up and in ‘not caring’ if they hit him. Which deserves a reaction. It is about time someone stuck up for Jeter and said no more.
Would you, as a Red Sox fan, be okay with Ramirez getting plunked repeatedly? I don’t think so.
“Is anyone going to complain about Papelbon and his fist pumping last night. I’m shocked that the media hasn’t created a controversy about it yet”
Thought I noticed a little evil eye from Olivo at the end. Maybe a Red Sox hitter gets plunked tonite. When did Papelbon start throwing a slider???
chazzh, in case you missed it, nobody cares what Brian thinks.
You know, I think people have got it wrong about Cano having no heart, or not caring. If he didn’t care, I don’t think he’d be down on himself. Could he use a better approach, or a reminder not to let the poor hitting get in the way of his fielding? Probably. You may be able to say his style of play is more “laid back” than you’d prefer, but I don’t think you can question his “heart.”
Don Vito.
noted. sorry for stepping out of line- I just can’t believe people can’t see that LaTroy sticking up for the cap’n was needed and should be commended (except for getting close to his head)
Brian
If Jeter’s hands are in the strike zone when he gets hit, it’s on him. If the pitch is out of the strikezone when he gets hit, it’s on the pitcher.
Damon’s stock answers of “We’re better than this” has gotten old and dry.
Hey Damon !!!!
Look at yourself in the mirror and see a classic underachiever. Make sure you’re standing next to Cano.
Good news …
The ‘ace” of the starting staff goes tonight. Yep, Darrell Rasner will be on the hill.
3 bad defensive plays in the last 2 games cost the yankees 13 runs. abreu’s 2 terrible throws to the plate (neither of which was cut-off) could have prevented 6 runs in the mets 8th inning on sunday and cano’s not covering 2nd opened the floodgates to 7 runs in the 1st inning last night. i realize the offense is struggling but even if it was hitting on all cylinders, 13 runs in 2 games is alot of making up to do b/c of bad defense.
Might be right Doreen. The “no heart” thing may be unfair. However, he surely lacks something. Lack of professionalism, maturity or perhaps the intangibles we like so much about Jeter (along with his tangibles, of course). Something isn’t what it needs to be.
Questioning any players heart is unfair.
Reporters seem to think that the Bowa tough love approach was good for Cano. In the absence of Bowa, someone else needs to step in and keep on him to keep his head up and in the game.
ESPN hoots like Steve Phillips, Gammons, et al are chomping at the bit wanting to trash the Yankees beyond belief but their superiors are holding the reigns. The frustration is eating at them.
Chazz – You’re missing my point. Manny doesn’t get hit a lot because he keeps his hands back and strides forward. If the pitch is inside he can rotate his body and/or lift his hands. There is no vendetta against Jeter. Why hit him when he hits mostly singles, anyway?
Jeter gets hit a lot because of his hitting style. He gets frozen at the plate as a result of his technique (again, he pushes his hands into the hitting zone first, AND he dives into the plate). Why do you think that his left-handed batting glove has a steel plate in it?
P.S. ARod getting hit is a different story, Teams throw at him (including the Sox) because (a) they don’t like him, and (B) he might hit a HR. So, on ARod, guilty as charged. Not so on Jeter.
Pat :
Right now, the only Yankee that would verbally ride Cano into tears is Jorge and it’s coming soon.
i dont pretend to know whats going on in cano’s head right now, but i sure hope that girardi had him in his office last night to give him an earfull. i’d like to see him benched for tonite.
this situation reminds me alot of when andrew jones was a young player with the braves. cox did a brilliant job of keeping him at peak performance, moslty by encouragement, but on occasion by benching him and one time even pulling him off the field in mid-inning. im thinking thats what robbie needs right now.
This is getting out of hand now.
What’s to be done?
“Jeter gets hit a lot because of his hitting style.”
100% correct. However, last night’s HBP had nothing to do with his hitting style and retaliation was warranted.
Pete first of all Daniel threw at one of our players, can’t recall who but he also had to duck and dive out of the way. Also the pitch to Jeter was WAAAAAYYYYY inside.
Pat – I should have said “in the hitting zone.” But that leaves his hands in a very vulnerable position on pitches that are off-the-plate-inside. Pitches that wouldn’t hit his body still catch his hands. I can’t think of another hitter in MLB who so exposes his hands. Even other “inside/out” hitters like Wade Boggs kept their hands back. Jeter’s style is unique, and leaves him vulnerable.
This team should hang their heads in shame for disgracing the Stadium in it’s final year.
If Larry Bowa were still here, he would have ripped Cano a new one…on the field. Wouldn’t even bother to wait til he got to the dugout…right there on the field….then he would have taken his glove, spit on it and thrown it into the stands…walking off the field cursing and flapping his arms in disbelief.
I love these red sox fans talking about why Jeter gets hit all the time when they have a player whose entire arm is handing over the strike zone yet he never gets hit. You know why?! Cause if he did he’d beat the living *** out of the pitcher and his pitchers would hit the other teams batters.
Pete,
I really like your point of view sometimes but come on… the O’s were leading by 10 runs at the time. There was absolutely no reason to pitch inside at the risk of injuring a player.
The problem with the Yankees is simple. Hitters are getting older by the minute, and they can’t turn on the FB like they used to. Pitchers are starting to notice this and are using mainly FBs against them. They are getting ahead in the count with the FB which the Yankees can’t hit, and that’s why they are not working walks anymore. As a result of always starting the count 0-1, Yankees’ hitters are trying to hit that first pitch FB, thus now working the count or getting walks. That was very clear last night as Cabrera, of all people, needed 80 something pitches to work 7 innings, with 0(!!!) walks. When you let a guy like Cabrera pitch 7 innings in less than 90 pitches, and you can’t even work a walk against him, you know your offense sucks.
Lets do the math. I love the fact that many on this blog are keeping it positive saying the Yanks will get hot. Boy I hope so. Howver lets do the math, If the Yanks continue to lose and give up more games heres what they are setting themselves up for. Right now Boston is 28-19 with 115 to play. Lets say boston does poorly for them and plays 1 game under 500 the rest of the way. that makes them finish with a record of 85-77
The Yanks would have to go 66-42 the rest of the way to finish one game ahead. Thats 24 games over 500 the rest of the way. NOw, that does not count or matter if the red sox play better than 1 game under 500, Nobody can think they`ll do that, and it does not consider if someone else in the divsion gets hot. I think its asking alot. Every loss matters
Brian, as much as it pains me to agree with a red sox fan, you are correct. Because of jeter’s hitting style, he gets hit a lot, mostly in the hands. I am all for protecting your team as a pitcher, but throwing at the head is not called for. I do think that Jeter got a raw deal with the error in the first inning. of course it is his throwing error, but you could tell he was pissed that cano didnt get to second in time to make the easy out. thats where the game was lost.
bob hope- did you forget last year already?
Bob Hope – you have very little hope considering your name. The Yankees always find a way.
I still holding out hope for a turn around. Last year we were in a similar position with out pitching slightly worse and our hitting slightly better. I have more faith in the hitting turning around this year than I did the pitching last year.
Jennifer -
This 2007 team didn’t have quitters even in the worst of days. This team does. They don’t even look like they’re trying and their facial expressions tell a lot.
Jennifer – You don’t get it. LOTS of MLB batters MOVE when the pitch is at them. Jeter gets locked in/frozen.
The pitch to Luke Scott (throwing at LUKE SCOTT??)was at least as far inside as the pitch that hit Jeter. Scott MOVED, and the pitch missed him.
In general, it is OK to move hitters off the plate. Every inside pitch doesn’t have to be no more than 6 inches inside. There’s an expectation that the batters will try to get out of the way. Jeter doesn’t, and he gets hit by pitches that other hitters avoid.
They probably chose to throw at Luke Scott because he came up with two outs and no one on.
Brad you have to hold out hope that they will turn it around, otherwise as a fan it will be a very long year.
But I believe they need to start making changes, dfa, trade just get rid of the dead wood. Sorry to say it cause I actually like him, but with Damon, and Giambi. Bring up Brett Gardner, and figure out something with first.
Yankees stink but at laeast the minor league pitching prospects are looking great -
http://tinyurl.com/6g287h
Ian – you’re absolutely right (re: throwing at Luke Scott). An astute baseball observation, factoring in the game situation. Good analysis – I only saw the replay, so I didn’t know that.
Injuries or not, these Yankees were overestimated coming out of spring training. The depth has been exposed for what it is. No quick fixes on the horizon because they’ve finally come to roost after several years of using that failed bandaid approach.
Not even a hint of team chemistry.
our hitting at this point last year was not slightly better last year, it was monumentally better… and its amazing because, minus Posada really, its the exact same team.
Johnny Damon made a joke out of playing LF last night, and if i were Girardi, the minute Cano doesnt cover 2B in the first inning, i pull him out of the game. forget his struggles at the plate, those kind of mental errors in the field are inexcuseable.
this team right now is listless and lethargic. they are sleep walking thru May, which is something i NEVER thoguth id say with Girardi managing this club, and i would love to hear from someone what they see in this team right now that would help make fans believe theyve got a run in them like they did last year…
take a step back and forget the NY on the chest, and just look at the numbers. if this were any other team than the Yankees, they’d be crucified.
for me, i hope that Cashman simply recognizes that even if they have a run in them, there is no chance they win #27 this year. im with SJ in the fact that if they continue to perform this way, it just makes it easier for Cashman to continue with his development plan and retool for a legitimate shot in 2009.
this first base situation is ridiculous. we keep throwing giambi out there despite how obvious it is that he has nothing left, mostly b/c we have no options. what the hell was cashman thinking when he let phillips AND mientkiewitz both go? who did he think was going to play 1B? i could give him a pass if his plan was to use giambi IF he had kept someone who could at least play decent defense late in games (or when wang is pitching). now i know a bunch of you will say this is 20/20 hindsight, but its not b/c several ppl, myself included asked that very question when the let the two of them go. cash totally blew this one, and it was plainly obvious at the time.
Three straight bad starts in a row by three different pitchers, the only ones the team can rely on. Egregious, inexcusable errors, omissions and misjudgments by players like Cano and Jeter plus two really bad plays by Damon last night, losing a pop up in left and then diving when he should have played it otherwise. A continuing failure to be able to score more than 2 runs. No proven pitching answers in sight, just some hope for a miracle in a young arm or two. The bottom line for me is that this team has run out of ways to win despite all of their talent and experience. Results – as opposed to all the talk about desire – speak loudly and the results are saying that this team has quit on itself.
Before anybody pounces to defend good intentions as opposed to results, let me say that there are at least two kinds of quitting. There is lazy, obvious quitting, nonchalant play reminiscent of Miguel Tejada who couldn’t be bothered running out grounders to 1st base when he played in Camden Yards. And then there is quitting in the form of collective failure, an inability to be positive, creative and find a way to win. Yeah, there’s more parity in the league, but come on. With all the talent and experience on this team, I refuse to accept that this is anything other than plain failure. This putrid season is all on the players.
This team plays like losers, waiting for something bad to happen and in so doing makes bad things come to pass at the plate, on the mound and in the field. The 90s Dynasty Yankees were not the most uniformly talented group of baseball players to ever take the field, but they were stronger inside than this bunch and understood the team concept. It’s not about destroying water coolers, or throwing helmets. It’s about leveraging every man’s best efforts every night to just find a way to win.
Yeah, it’s May and yeah they were here last year. But when it happens a second year in a row, under a different manager, it should make you wonder. This team is giving off a stink. On almost every other club in every other sport, ownership makes a dramatic move at a time like this to find some player(s) who can help spark the pride and change the losing culture. It’s time.
This team has hit a low point.
There really can’t be anywhere to go but up now. I mean, seriously now. They can’t play any worse then they have this last week.
jeter hits with an inside outside swing that keeps his hands extremely close to his body on inside pitches. there is no hands diving across the plate.
jeter when he does decide to pull a pitch still gets his hands inside the ball. the “flip move ” is a figment of your red sox imagination . what jeter does is dive in with his body. his hands get hit while they are close to or up against his body.
he gets hit often because his body moves in ,not his hands.
and furthermore, if a pitcher wants to go up and in( which i advocate), he has to do it with a 4 seam fastball that doesn’t run away from where the pitcher was aiming. that ball last night chased jeter. it didn’t look like a 4 seamer to me. pedro used to throw 2 seamers up and in all the time and that’s why he was considered a dirty player.
have you seen wang hit many batters when he goes up and in. no you don’t because he doesn’t throw his two seamer because he knows he can’t control it up there and that it will chase hitters. he throws a straight 4 seamer that he can control.
the players know when a pitch is dirty. yankee retaliation by hawkins showed exactly what the yankees thought about that pitch.
don’t come into our house after a tough loss , and try to pass off red sox propaganda as fact.a and as far as knowledge about hitting mechanics, you do better when you stick to giving advice about restaurants in italy.
girardi couldnt pull cano after not covering 2b or it would have looked like he was covering for jeter. im just as pissed (maybe moreso) than anyone here about that play, but b/c of jeter’s throwing error, pulling cano wasnt the right thing to do there.
brian red sox fan-
the above comment is obviously for this comment from you :
“Jeter has a unique hitting style wherein he pushes his hands into the strike zone and then “flips†the bat in order to have the head of the bat catch up (see page 40 of the 5/19 Sporting News, if you don’t believe me). Combining this fact with the fact that he strides into home plate, he has a lot of troube getting his hands out of the way. It’s very hard for him to rotate his body so that his back and shoulder protect his hands”
Glenn
Sometimes a slap with a velvet hand is more effective than tears.
Cano reminds me of a kid in junior high sometimes. A little too confident in abilities that may not be fully developed but needing a little more reinforcement than he may think he needs to keep him focussed.
Brian
I agree in principle but while the the inside corner of the plate belongs to the pitcher, the batters box doesn’t. A hitter getting out of the way might be expected, but it is not guaranteed.
As for Alex getting thrown at, there’s a name for pitchers who throw at someone because they don’t like him rather than fear his potential to hurt them with his bat- Little Leaguers.
Brian does make some sense, and for a Red Sox fan, that’s quite an accomplishment.
well said randy I
murphydog, thats a great point.
“But when it happens a second year in a row, under a different manager, it should make you wonder.”
qft.
“They probably chose to throw at Luke Scott because he came up with two outs and no one on.”
yeah , they didn’t want the game to get out of hand.
I don’t think it was that they didn’t want the game to get out of hand. They probably knew Hawkins would get tossed and wanted to do what they can to make sure he didn’t get a run on his pitching line, after pitching what had been a very good outing.
Peter,
You get worse and worse everyday. You’re borderline horrible now.
You know, Moose said something last night – he said, the game was over in the first 15 minutes (many people here have said the same thing, but we’re fans, we almost always think the worst). Certainly, then, it’s fair to assume that no one (or very few) on this team believes it can come back from a deficit.
He also talked about the lack of consistency this season and the lack of enough positives to hang your hat on to help you believe you can turn it around.
Jeter said in this morning’s Star Ledger, when asked, that the team has had meetings and people have spoken up.
Minor leaguers coming up before their time is not going to help.
well said murphydog!!
The “no heart” issue is fairly presented. It’s in their record, it’s in the errors, it’s in their otherwise inexplicable inability to score more than 2 runs in a game – they are not facing Koufax every night. It’s in the inability to get on a roll. No heart? It’s like the Emperor’s New Clothes… nobody wants to believe it because they are the Yankees and the Yankees have pride. Well, if you took off their pinstripes and really looked at this team there would be no doubt about it.
I can’t read minds, nobody can. While behavior without words can be ambiguous, this record is no longer a small sample. Results this bad earn harsh questions and the players had better be asking themselves and each other this very question. Compare the talent to the results and the only question is: how much do you want it?
Just because it turned around last year doesn’t mean it will this year. You MAKE things better. Not wait for someone or something to make things better.
Biggest problem I have with this team is they seem to be waiting for someone else to come along and make it better.
I’m sorry but when you have as much talent as you have on this team, waiting on Arod and Posada to dig you out of this hole is weak. VERY weak.
If that’s the case, I’d rather blow it up, play the kids, and see where it takes me. The veterans on this team have been a HUGE disappointment so far this year.
Seasons don’t just happen. Your play MAKES seasons happen.
Right now, its just a poor mix of players. The bench is ineffective. The age and declining skills of players on the roster is on the rise. Cano, one of the players the Yankees are banking their future on, continues to play himself into a position where dealing him has to be put on the table.
I don’t want to hear the “he misses Bowa” nonsense either. Coaches come and go from teams in this game. If Robinson Cano needs Larry Bowa to perform, then trade him to the Dodgers. They have a plethora of young players and he would bring a couple of much needed parts back to the Yankees.
Unfortunately, its like a perfect storm of everything that could go wrong with the team has gone wrong. Injuries, age, declining skills, underperformance, all of it at one time.
What to do about it? Not much right now. There is no trade market on May 21. These guys have got to play themselves out of it.
If they don’t, it makes it real easy for Cashman to just blow it up and start over.
Too early to blow it up right now. But, everyday this team gets deeper into the abyss, it makes it a much easier call to do. From ownership right on down.
Hawkins last night? The first pitch should have been it. The second pitch? Too close to the head for my tastes.
But, that’s just me. I could be wrong.
“Hawkins two pitches were “messages†and were in no way even close to Scott’s head.”
You’re blind. Agree or disagree with throwing at the head, but you obviously were watching a different game.
“LaTroy pitching up and in can only help give the Yankees some fire. Why not?”
Can only help? Or it could do nothing. Didn’t exactly bother Luke Scott on his next at bat when he put one in the upper deck did it?
“don’t come into our house after a tough loss , and try to pass off red sox propaganda”
Our house? A website? Haha. That’s cute.
its not covering for jeter if you pull out cano. everyone knows jeter made an awful mistake there… but bad throws happen.
it’s making an example of cano for making an inexcuseable mental error, and setting the example for the rest of the team to get their heads straight.
you can be in a slump and you can make mistakes whiles you are playing hard, and thats ok because thats part of the game. but those mental errors just shouldnt happen, and you have to make that clear.
“You get worse and worse everyday. You’re borderline horrible now.”
Then I assume this will be the last post we see from you on this site, correct?
iv heard 1000 times in the past 3 weeks that there are no moves to be made,no trades possible, no dfa’ and eat salary can be done, but what, exactly is management doing to make things better? im not blaming them totally for the unforseen failings of so many players at once, but SOMETHING needs to be done!
this team is sleepwalking and i cant believe we’re gonna let the whole year go by and make changes next season without at least trying gardner and others out at the mlb level to see what we have, and/or showcase ppl for trades. it obviously cant make things worse and the last time this team looked this dead-in-the-water, calling up cano and wang completly changed things.
Randy 1 – You’re right about Jeter keeping his hands close to his body, but moving his hands forward is his first hitting move with his upper body. Check out other inside/out hitters (e.g. Ichiro, Boggs). Their hands stay back MUCH longer than Jeter, who almost pushes the bat into the hitting zone. His hands are absolutely exposed, and the empirical data proves it – unless you believe that MLB pitchers have deliberately targeted his hands over the last 13 (or so years).
P.S. Off topic, I think that you are an absolutely bhilarious poster (also informative). Dry wit is a priceless commodity (especially in times of need).
Are you guys catching grief at work? I live in Chicago, where the first place Cubs and WS play and first thing this morning, my co-workers were all over me about how a 200mil team could be in last place. I told them that in the end, the Yankees would be there. Not sure I believe that, but it sounded good.
If they pulled Cano and put Gonzalez at second, knowing they’d more than likely be putting in Ensberg later in the game to give ARod a break, then who would cover for Jeter, if he had to be taken out of the game, which ended up happening?
The only question in that scenario is whether or not they would have taken ARod out if the game had not gotten out of hand. And, I don’t even know this, does Ensberg play 2nd or short?
So, while it might have been an opportunity to make an example of Cano, you really have to be cognizant of who else is available to come into the game in any scenario.
murphydog-
I hate to think you’re right here. I’d prefer to be a cock-eyed optimist, but that’s getting more and more difficult. There’s a difference between optimism and hiding one’s head in the sand. It’s not a good situation this season. I still hope it turns around, but it sure ain’t lookin’ so good.
“They probably knew Hawkins would get tossed and wanted to do what they can to make sure he didn’t get a run on his pitching line”
that’s right, i do remember seeing girardi call everyone over and they huddled up and talked it over and decided just how to retaliate.
i’ll say one thing. some people should get into writing best sellers because they sure are good at fiction.
“Hawkins two pitches were “messages†and were in no way even close to Scott’s head.â€
A lot of us need to get a grip. He was clearly throwing at his head and there is no other way to see it.
I agree with retaliation, but there is never an excuse for headhunting, never.
String of bad games, tough loss and a lot of you turn in to absolute animals.
It’s not a pretty sight and makes the rest of us look bad.
“Minor leaguers coming up before their time is not going to help.”
Doreen:
From the perspective of proven, reliable talent, I agree. Minor leaguers coming up before the optimal moment do not necessarily add weapons. But I remember Tony Womack being swapped out for Cano. Judicious sprinkling of kids – or a surprise roster move for a non-producing veteran – can help burn off complacency and help players find that extra gear all professionals at this level must have. It also sends a message: the team is moving on without players who don’t earn their jobs with results. Reality instructs when words fail. In the end it’s a business. Time to do some reorganizing in the interests of moving forward. IMO doing nothing is a violation of Cashman’s duty to maximize results.
So Brian (Red Sox fan)
Do you believe that every time Jeter gets hit – it is an accident? So, Pedro ‘accidentally’ hit Soriano and Jeter a few years back.
Nothing like blaming the victim (the guy who got hit). You must be a DA.
p.s. Papelbon is a clown for his celebration last night- if the Red Sox are the best team in baseball – which everyone seems to say nightly- whatever happened to ‘act like you have been there before’.
My post just got eaten up. Here goes again:
Pulling Cano would have had repercussions because I assume they would replace him with Gonzalez. Thinking ahead, you can make the leap that Ensberg would need to be available if you want to take ARod out early (not a given, but a safe assumption). If Jeter goes down, who plays short? Betemit is on the DL. I don’t even know if Ensberg plays 2nd or short. They really don’t have the horses to be able to indulge that urge to make an example.
ham fighter,
They can do several things:
1. Go to Freddie Garcia’s workout next week and see if there is something left in him. If there is, sign him. If there isn’t, pass. At least be there.
2. Get Brett Gardner ready for a callup. Yes, he’s not a magic elixir. But, he gives the Yankees something they don’t have right now. Speed. Try it. If it doesn’t work, you send him back.
Let’s be honest, can he be any worse than some of the guys have been on this team this year?
3. Stop the madness with Joba in the bullpen. Send him to Scranton NOW and get him ready to start. He’s not throwing enough innings (because the team is so bad) out of the bullpen. Get him to Scranton, and get him ready for a Mid-Late June arrival into the rotation. Its time.
4. Monitor what’s out there (trade-wise) which is what Cashman does everyday. The issue is, more teams than ever are in races so, you aren’t going to see a lot of players available until closer to the trade deadline. But, you still monitor it anyway.
That’s really all he can do. He can’t make players play younger. Can’t make guys think better on the field and can’t make the team win.
That’s on the players. If they can’t or won’t do it, there will come a team the team will cut bait with them.
Unfortunately, they can’t do it on May 21.
Daniel Cabrera threw at Melky’s head long before Latroy was even in the game. Then he hit Jeter.
Just because the guy has a reputation for being wild he does not get a pass. You need to send a message that you will protect your players regardless – force him to take retaliation into account when he decides he’s going inside, especially in a 9-0 game.
My only problem with the Yankees is that their style of “retaliation” seems to be throwing near the head. Its a stupid approach because unless you are really sick you do not really want to hit them. They’d be much better off just hitting them in their midsection and getting it over with. As Jeter said…. “near doesn’t hurt”. It was probably as much a message to his own pitchers as to anyone.
“that’s right, i do remember seeing girardi call everyone over and they huddled up and talked it over and decided just how to retaliate.
i’ll say one thing. some people should get into writing best sellers because they sure are good at fiction.”
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure it out. Hawkins knows when it is appropiate to throw at someone as does Girardi. No need for a long discussion. How often have we seen Girardi try to protect a pitchers stat line this season.
we need to win some games
murphydog -
I guess the only player that could conceivably add anything right now is Brett Gardner.
The other thing to do is give Duncan a lot more playing time, even though he hasn’t really shown anything this season. The problem is, every couple of nights or so Giambi will make a couple of plays or get a couple of hits that, as I’ve said before, add to his lifespan. He does just enough to make you think he could be turning the corner. Last night he hits 2 balls to the left of 2nd base. What are the odds??
Other than those two moves, I don’t know what else. Do you give the regular lineup a week with ARod in it to see what happens? That seems fair, yet every week that goes by unsuccessfully is a wasted week.
sj44
i agree 100%
they should do no’s 2&3 today!
The news is a lot better on the minor league front.
Mark Melancon pitched 3 shutout innings (with 4 K’s) to get the win, 3-0 in 10 innings for Trenton last night.
Alfredo Aceves, who was making his first AA start, pitched 7 shutout innings, striking out 7.
Zach McAllister (Charleston) moved to 6-2 (2.06 ERA) with a win last night. He went 8, striking out 6, walking none, and only giving up one run.
At least the night wasn’t a total washout for the Yankees.
Laura – just start a chant… “nineteen ohhhhh eight”
Doreen, i understand the point about not having the horses to pull Cano (given Jeter’s eventual exit), but i think at this point, with the way this team is playing, setting an example trumps the soldiers you have to go into battle with.
but yeah, i definately see what you’re saying… i’m just in the mindset that desperate times call for drastic measures, and it’s going to take something liek that to shock this team a little bit.
and yes, Gardner is step 1, and Joba is step 2.
Last year the Yankees were off to a similar start. Most of the players are the same as they had last year. One major change took place. They hired a new manager.
Say what you want about the players, its true there is a falling apart there, but leadership changes that. We haven’t seen that coming from the Girardi clubhouse.
If the players attitudes are bad – which seems to be the case, and these are the same players as last year, then you have to look for what could be the underlying cause. Coaching changes and new manager are the biggest difference this year.
Leaders lead. The chief leader of the team is the manager.
I fear the Yankees made a huge error in hiring Girardi. I hope things change for the better, but its not looking like the wisest move the Yankees made was letting Torre go. Despite the foolish talk from NoMaas to the contrary.
How about this ? Eye for an eye. You throw at our guy, we throw at yours, period ! And if you get away with throwing at our game towards the end of a game and we don’t get a chance to get you back, the very next game we can throw at YOUR GUY first, we take it. The Yankees are going to get a lot of guys hurt, if they do NOTHING about getting plunked. It is time to step up and back up our players…NOW and forever more !
Doreen,
At this point, what’s fair may not be what’s best for the team.
If it was me, I put Gardner in left, Damon to the bench, and I platoon Giambi and Duncan at first.
I look at it in very simple terms. Who has a role in the future of the team? Those are the guys that play.
The one’s who don’t? Its first to the bench and then to another destination.
I send Joba to Scranton, call up Scott Patterson to take his spot on the roster, and get him ready for the rotation.
My goal (if I’m the GM) would be to have Hughes and Chamberlain in the rotation by the 4th of July.
By that time, one of Melancon, Cox or Robertson would be ready to take a spot in the bullpen.
If Gardner can stick, Damon becomes expendable. If he can’t, he should at least be on the roster as a 4th OF. He has more value to the Yankees right now than just about anybody else on the bench because of his wheels.
That would be a start.
One thing about teams. How they play dictates a lot of what you do as a GM. If they stink it up on a nightly basis, making changes becomes easy.
Its when they are good one day and bad the next, like the Mets for example, that makes decisionmaking much harder.
With the way the Yankees are playing making changes shouldn’t be met with much dispute.
Can we just give Damon, Giambi and Igawa away? How about letting Damon and Giambi spend the rest of their retirement tour in the bay area on the Giants? Igawa might like that too… closer to home. At least we’ll open 3 spots on the 40 and 25 man rosters… there’s some value in that. Bring up Gardner, McCutcheon and the underachieving Eric Duncan… let’s see what they’ve got. Just do something… staying the course is not working. This team is not going to play .650 ball the rest of the way so lets experiment and see what we are going to need next year.
i have no doubt in Girardi’s ability to manage. ive already seen him do much more with much less than what this team has right now.
this is on the players.
“Jeter has a unique hitting style wherein he pushes his hands into the strike zone ”
brian(red sox fan)-
“pushes his hands into the strike zone” is the flaw in your argument.
the plate is 17 inches wide. if a ball is on the outside corner, jeter’s hands are on the end of a 34 inch bat. you do the math on where his hands are.
i’ll give you a clue. they aren’t in the strike zone.
on an inside pitch, his hands are even further inside whether he decides to inside out the pitch with his hands brushing against his body or pulling the ball when his hands still having to stay inside the ball.
when pulling a ball on the black on the inside pitch jeter’s hands have to be inside the ball and therefore not in the strike zone.
…so where is the best place to get a cappuccino in florence?
Please stop with this (remember last year) they should not be in this hole in the first place. The “big comeback” in any sport at any level is the exception not the norm. Cashman Hank Girardi whoever overestimated their team and their potential while underestimating the opposition. The starting pitching even if Hughes is healthy is mediocre at best by league standards. What now? They need to make some moves to try to stay in this. There is nobody in the minors ready to come up and make a substantial contribution. While I still cannot believe they passed up on Santana theres nothing you can do about that now. I would bring Posada back as a DH. I would leave Matsui in left use Damon as a late inning replacement for Matsui and also let Damon sub once a week for Matsui. I would leadoff Jeter, bat Melky 2nd, bat AROD 3rd, bat Matsui 4th, Posada 5th, Abreu 6th, Platoon Duncan/Giambi at first and bat 7th, Cano 8th and leave him alone, and Molina 9th. I would also let the guys who can steal a base (Jeter, Melky, Arod, Abreu, Cano) go more often. Lastly, I would be shopping for a starter.
TurnTwo, being manager is much more than just making moves during a game.
“Laura – just start a chant… “nineteen ohhhhh eight—
Actually, I told him since his team hasn’t won squat in 100 yrs, he was in no position to talk trash to me. Cub fans are actually the most tortured fans in the world. They have been disappointed so many times that even now when their team has a decent shot of making it to the playoffs, they are convinced that it will eventually collapse. The NL is so weak that the Cubs should at least make it to the first round if not making it to the WS, where they will be dismantled by the AL team.
There is only so much a manager can do.
Most everybody will agree that Jim Leyland is a good manager, correct?
How do you explain the Tigers?
Sometimes, the mix of players is such that no matter what a manager does, there is nothing they can do about it.
Sometimes, you just have a bad team. Regardless of the names on the roster.
Last year, at least they hit. They haven’t hit all year this season.
Why? Age? No PED’s? No Greenies?
My theory. The game is changing because of the tougher drug policies. Its getting back to being more pitching, defense, speed, contact hitting.
In other words, ALL of the things that made the 1996-2001 Yankees a Dynasty.
Look at the roster objectively. Do you see those type of players on this roster? No.
So, how is that Girardi’s fault? It isn’t.
Its a bad mix of older, unathletic players, weak pitching (especially among most of the starters) and younger players, like Cano, who are still searching for that game in game out consistency.
Its why the team has invested so heavily in its minor league system the last 3 years.
Unfortunately, due to the lateness of their investment, they are limited in finding help from within to bail the parent club out completely this year. That’s going to be up to the guys on the roster to do most of the heavy lifting in that area.
agreed, but at some point, the players have to want to make a change.
Girardi can flip tables, and bench players, and have meetings, but if the players arent open to changing their attitude, and focus on fundamentals and not making mental errors, its on them.
if molina could hit at all, it would definitly be time to start playing jorge at first. this could help protect his shoulder. but unfortunatly, molina cant hit at all and getting his bat out of the daily lineup is more important than getting giambi’s out.
“take a step back and forget the NY on the chest, and just look at the numbers. if this were any other team than the Yankees, they’d be crucified. ”
Have you not read any newspapers or yankee message boards in the past 3 weeks? Even Jesus was less crucified.
I am hearing it from the Met fans in the office. I guess I should say 1986 to them?
oh, i know ray. that post is just for those who still refuse to believe this season is a wash.
Jennifer, the Mets lost twice yesterday. They have plenty of their own problems and aren’t much better off. Their fans should worry about the Braves instead of still looking back on their two game “World Series victory” in May.
the problem is NOT retaliating when Jeter or ARod gets plunked…
the problem is that none of our pitchers know how to hit an opposing batter flush on the rear-end, or between the numbers.
i have no problem with LaToya’s intent last night…he just lacked proper execution.
jennifer, tell your mets fans friends thanks for me, in my spare (non yankee) time, im a phils fan and not only did they open the door for us to get into the playoffs, the also erased us from being the team that collapsed worse than any other. so say thanks from philly for me!
Mental errors are an interesting subject. The more you think about not making them, the more they probably get made.
Just an everyday example of that: how many of you have gotten up in the middle of the night for whatever reason, or early in the morning for that matter, and TRIED to be quiet so as not to wake your housemate(s)? If any of you are like me, the more I TRY to be quiet, the more likely I am to, say, drop a pot.
Seriously, perhaps they need to stop thinking and start just playing. Just letting the instincts take over. Going out there with a “nothing to lose” attitude. Because, really, at this point, can they get much worse?
Earlier I was encouraged that they were at least staying out of any long losing streak. However, I’d say 5 games qualifies as a long losing streak, especially with Boston finding themselves again and winning a few in a row. So, first order of business is to stop the losing streak and go on from there.
SJ44 -
I do agree that what’s fair isn’t necessarily what’s best, and they really don’t have the luxury to be fair anymore. And, you know what else? I’m not usually cynical and I don’t usually concern myself with the paycheck end of baseball (because I can’t control it), but these guys are getting paid whether they play or not, and whether they play well or not.
yeah, our guys need an instructor to teach them how to hit a guy in the butt and avoid the head.
Are we going to hear Gossage come out and say that isn’t the proper way to play baseball? (re hawk)
I wonder if anyone will call him up and ask him what he thought of K-rods or Paplebons antics last night? OR the Astros pitcher who did the wild thing on the mound hte other night.
Doreen,
No question about it. Last night, the Jeter error changed the whole game. Perhaps Moose should have “fought through it”. Or, Cano, “should have been on the bag”. But, that wasn’t the case.
Instead, a 1-0 deficit after a half inning turned into a 7-0 deficit and the ballgame.
You can’t underscore how bad a mistake that was and how it affected the game.
The troubling part is that losing teams find new ways to lose every night. That’s what the Yankees are doing right now and that’s tough to watch.
Conversely, winning teams find ways to win any kind of game.
Whether its talent, mojo or a combination of the two, even a blind man can see this Yankee team (at least so far this season) lacks it.
Finding the elusive “it” is the tough part.
“Nothing like blaming the victim (the guy who got hit). You must be a DA.”
chazzh-
he’s not a DA . he’s being a smart A.
he’s just full of red sox glee over the present state of affairs and what could be more fun then coming on this site and sticking in the needle with jeter who still represents everything red sox fans hate about the yankees.
I want to feel like tonights game will be a rebound game…
But I don’t know if I believe that’ll happen!
DMan, it will happen because our Ace is on the mound!!
Again what about the papelbon celebration.. Oh I forgot it is OK because of the circumstances of the game, what a JOKE.. the guy acted like it was game 6 of the world series.. I love the yankee haters rational on these matters it is humorous..
the pitch that hit Jeter was minimum inside 6 or more inches of the plate and high.
SJ I think your reaction about the game changing overnight to the athletic etc. game may be overstated..again damon had 20+ steals last yr. and I think abreu had near that also.. these guys are not carlos lee and jermaine dye.. they have some speed….
I think the players have just not produced and I especiall am pissed at Cano his AB last night with 2 on and 1 out was terrible… swinging at a 2 – 2 pitch at his ankles, will he ever learn?????
“don’t come into our house after a tough loss , and try to pass off red sox propaganda as fact.a and as far as knowledge about hitting mechanics, you do better when you stick to giving advice about restaurants in italy.”
that post is worthy of a virtual slap in the mug…. SLAP.
Ohlendorf sucks get over him
“these guys are not carlos lee”
Sadly, you are correct. Lee may be a fatass, but he’s found a way to average 30 homers, 115 rbi and 15 steals over the past 5 seasons.
I usually catch the game on GameDay or read about it later. Most iof the time I don’t actually see the game on TV. Last night I had tickets but didn’t go because of the weather. Instead, we watched from a warm, dry bar. Hideous game. Absolutely hideous. I’m glad I didn’t read posts all night!
A few observations:
I was surprised to see Giambi go the other way. Of course, who wasn’t. Still looks like a .200 hitter to me though.
Matsui can run again, should be in LF. Damon is a waste, he isn’t hitting and he looked like a buffoon on that E. Remember, Matsui’s arm isn’t terrible like Damon’s too. Matsui may not be the premier LF in the game but if our only options are Damon & Matsui, Matsui’s the better of the two right now.
Edwar can mix in more pitches so hitters don’t wait on the change, he could actually do well in the majors. Let’s see him keep doing it consistently. He still needs to be fed more too.
Cano looks as flat as a week old warm beer.
A-Rod not limping was a good sign. Seeing his home run trot again was a good sign too.
Although Jeter does lean in and probably expects to get some bruises at the plate, it’s still good to see that one of the Yanks pitchers was able to let the other team know not to get too comfortable with him getting hit. Fortunately nobody else got hurt and it didn’t get out of hand.
Last night’s pitcher was the old washed up Moose from last summer. We can’t expect him to be on every time, even alarmists. He has done reasonably well over the last several games by making the adjustments to his pitching style. Last night was not one of those games. I actually think he will have a winning record by the time the season’s over and a better ERA than last year. I didn’t think this over the winter. He won’t be 17-6 with an ERA in the 3’s, but he’ll have a better year than last year.
fredo i was just talking about Lee on the speed and D front, he is a great hitter and Dye is a good hitter…
To me it appears that Ohlendorf usually gets tired after a inning or 2…Ohlendorf has not performed that good but he is still young and new to the najors so he has a chance, he is not like Kyle who is old and we know just sucks…..
“Again what about the papelbon celebration”
Stuart, the vast majority of people who took issue w/ Joba’s antics were YANKEE fans who felt it was not the “Yankee Way” to carry on like that.
The Yankees could not have looked more classless then when Hawkins threw at Scott’s HEAD and missed (and good thing he did miss)
You sound like Micheal Kay blaming Jeter for getting hit, total bull. Jeter might dive out to caover the outside corner, like 400 other players, but when he gets hit he’s always out of the strike zone, pulling back while the ball is bearing up & in on him. Not one pitcher that hits Jeter gets tossed or suspended, but half a dozen Yankee pitchers get tossed & suspended for not hitting players. Please explain the logic.
“Joe
May 21st, 2008 at 5:11 am
When is Scott Patterson getting called up? He hasn’t given up run in his last 10 outings or so covering about a month. Working on season number THREE of dominating AA or AAA.”
since when is the bullpen the problem ?
Man. All right, here’s hoping the Yankees go on this massive winning streek while I’m away.
Hopefully when I come back we’ll actually be playing with some energy.
Wishful thinking, I know.
Still. Catch you all in a week.
Things are at a boiling point now with the Yankees and with us Yankee fans…
Logic says things have to change eventually. There has to be some sort of turn-around soon.
right?
Randy 1 – I earlier corrected “into the strike zone” to “into the hitting zone.” If you were to use a golf swing as an analogy, what Jeter does is called “casting,” which basically refers to a premature move with the hands. AS I’ve said, even the iconic inside/out hitters keep the hands back, and pull the bat through the hitting zone.
Which is why I think Jeter’s hands are exposed as the pitch is on the way (even if he’s not swinging). Again, most hitters have their hands behind their torso while the pitch is on the way. Jeter is different. Effective as hell, but different.
Re; Cappucino in Florence. My favorite area is the Piazza (can’t recall the name) outside the Uffizi Museum. It includes an exact replica of the statue of David (which is kept inside). Lots of opportunities for cappucino, or, (my favorie (gelato).
“Ohlendorf sucks get over him”
stop for a second when did you say this, after he pitched near 4 innings of relief or after Damon missed the pop up in the 2nd inning for the 3rd out, which after Damon missed that pop up that’s the only inning Baltimore stepped up in, the HR to Millar was in his 4 inning of relief, Damon catches a can of corn pop up he only gives up 1 R in relief.
“Edwar can mix in more pitches so hitters don’t wait on the change, he could actually do well in the majors. Let’s see him keep doing it consistently. He still needs to be fed more too.”
you can thank Pedro Martinez and David Ortiz for that, yeh I know weird
“that post is worthy of a virtual slap in the mug…. SLAP.”
click on my user name . with a few clicks of the mouse you could find out how to deliver your message in person .
“since when is the bullpen the problem ?”
Even with bullpen depth, getting barely over 5 IP from the #2 thru #5 spots in the rotation will cause problems in a pen. Some of that could be manifesting itself in the way of poor recent outings from some of the guys in pen who had been perfromig pretty well.
SJ, why do you continually find excuses for Girardi?
Yes, there are problems with this team, however, when you have a team that has been together for a while and shown that they can perform well together, a few months break isn’t going to have all of that disappear.
I understand you are in man-love with Girardi because of some things you have done with him. That is fine.
I have worked in business for a long time. I’ve seen new management people come and go throughout all these years. I’ve seen people who look to have promise, credentials, smarts – whatever it takes to do the job – on paper, fail miserably because they just don’t have the experience or unidentified skill to do the job.
I view Girardi in similar mode. He had been a manager for one year prior to this. While there might be circumstances beyond his control, he did get fired from doing that job after that one single year.
Some people just can’t do the job they are hired to do. Just like so many teams don’t perform the way they would look to do ON PAPER.
There is a deeper seated problem with this team. While some problems were showing last year, a lot is explainable. This year its harder to justify.
There are people who can talk a good game, but when it comes to actually doing it they fail. So far, despite the platitudes of the “manager doesn’t go out and play and the game”, the manager can’t get a free pass either. When a whole team is in a funk, guess what, it is the job of the manager to do something. It is the job of the manager to get the most out of his players.
Leland is a good manager, but just like Girardi, they aren’t getting the job done. Be it the style they are bringing to that particular clubhouse, or the “chemistry” they have created, they aren’t getting it done. What is easier to do? Blow up a whole team of players who have shown for years they can perform at a high level, or look at where the change started? If it comes down to a whole team or a manager, just who will go?
Girardi just doesn’t seem up to the task.
“Even with bullpen depth, getting barely over 5 IP from the #2 thru #5 spots in the rotation will cause problems in a pen. Some of that could be manifesting itself in the way of poor recent outings from some of the guys in pen who had been perfromig pretty well.”
oh absolutely, and IDK how long it will take but Joba Chamberlain soon will have to be converted because the 8th and 9th will soon become useless. Dan McCutchen was promoted to AAA IDK if it’s in the BP role or SP but he and Robertson & JB Cox will have a big say what happens in the next few weeks.
I don’t think the Yankees should be retaliating until they are on the plus side.
All these things just make them fall deeper and deeper into the standings.
Luckily, I was out and missed most of the game.
At least A-Rod hit a HR, it would’ve have been worse if he went hitless.
How can everyone be in a hitting slump at once? I think they should get some independent hitting advice to supplement Kevin Long. I don’t recall such extreme slumps across the board when Mattingly was hitting coach.
And yeah, I get it, the hitting coach can’t bat for a player, yadayada…but maybe a fresh set of eyes can help.
I still don’t think it’s time to panic. I think we’ll see the Yankees string out 5 or 6 wins in a row, and right the ship.
Maybe not this week, but soon.
SJ,
If McAllister keeps it up, would you call him the best pitching prospect the Yanks have?
Keep and eye on this:
I’ve worked in sports for a long time. I trust my eyes when I see what guys can or can do.
What do you think the role of a manager is? Its not football, they aren’t “inspiring” anybody.
This is a veteran team. Filled mainly with guys who are on the downside of their careers.
What can Joe Girardi do to make Jason Giambi, Johnny Damon and Mike Mussina (just 3 examples. There are more) turn back the clock? Nothing.
I don’t have “man love” for Girardi. I, unlike you, simply understand that in baseball the manager isn’t a miracle worker.
He can’t take a bench of unproductive players and make them productive. He can’t take old guys and make them young.
Its not comparable to your business example because in business, you can fire unproductive workers.
Sports business is completely different from “real world” business. There is nothing comparable between the two because you aren’t dealing in guaranteed contracts, injuries, etc, in business. Its much more cut and dry.
You can’t do that in baseball. Unless of course, you want the Yankees to eat 100 million dollars in salary. Which ain’t happening.
He got fired after being named Manager of the Year by an owner who is a moron. The guy was Manager of the Year with a team that had a 12 million dollar payroll. Is that not a helluva achievement?
Girardi also isn’t going anywhere. Read Hank’s comments about Girardi in yesterday’s NY Times.
They all realize he’s been dealt a bad team. This ain’t on him.
So you let other teams use your players for target practice becuase you have a losing record?
The game was well out of control when Hawk threw that pitch. It wasn’t like it was a 2-1 game and we lost becuase of it.
Give me a break.
“When a whole team is in a funk, guess what, it is the job of the manager to do something. It is the job of the manager to get the most out of his players.”
honestly, i think this is the last thing you can criticize Girardi on. he ran a tough camp in the spring to make sure players came into the season in shape.
when players went down with injuries, he has changed lineups, rotated players, given days off.
To get the offense jumpstarted, he’s moved runners to try hit and runs, implemented sac bunts to try and generate runs.
he’s had team meetings, and addressed the players about their attitude, and their play and what is expected from him.
so what do you suggest he does differently?
like it was illustrated before, its not like this team was running on all cylinders last season start to finish and then girardi came in and the team folded up.
this team had the same issues last season, but Abreu, Cano, and Matsui all decided they wanted to hit again, and the pitching finally was able to hold other teams to under 5 runs a game and hold leads at the end of games, and it made Torre look like a genious.
Girardi has done what he can so far, but this is on the players to decide how much they are going to push themselves and pick their heads up and perform to the back of their baseball card slike it says they should.
I don’t think McAllister is their best pitching prospect. But, he’s very, very good and getting better.
McAllister, Betances and Heredia (when he gets off the DL) are 3 guys in Charleston worth keeping an eye on this season.
Their futures are very bright.
“SJ,
If McAllister keeps it up, would you call him the best pitching prospect the Yanks have?”
before SJ answers this I’ll say I’ve said this since last month his GO/AO is ridiculous, But Christian Garcia when on his game and 100 % healthy hands down will overtake anyone in this system other than Andrew Brackman or if Dellin Betances gets his control in the future.
If I need a smile during my work day, I just think of the Yankees. It’s so funny how pathetic they have become. Reminds me of bit of the Detroit Tigers of 2003. You know, the team that lost 119 games.
SJ44,
What do you think of Alfred Aceves? He seems to be movingg through the levels pretty quickly.
“Girardi just doesn’t seem up to the task.”
He’s got a team that’s aging on the field and being rebuilt on the mound. He’s following a legend. It’s not an easy gig.
He may not be up to the task. His credentials are far exceeded by the fanfare and expectations under which he came into the job with. However, he should get the chance to prove himself over time. Judging him on 2 months, with what can kindly be described as a flawed roster, simply isn’t fair.
Wow a Ray’s troll. A team that has never finished above 4th place is making fun of the Yankees. Did your team pick up thier 4th place award yet?
SJ, then you need glasses, because you can’t see well.
I am not looking for a miracle turn around, but the team has been playing like crap from day one. No one expects to reverse the age of the players.
Managers can negatively impact a whole team. Girardi is coming off as a person who constantly looks to do something, such as changing the lineup every game. Doing that to a veteran team can have the results we are looking at.
Like it or not, just because you say that a team isn’t going to perform like a business, doesn’t make it so. Baseball is a business. A poor manager in baseball can harm a team far more and faster than a good manager will make a positive impact.
Its not like this is only a few games into the season now. The season is a quarter of the way through. The Yankees look like crap all around. Girardi doesn’t have a track record to look at, and he seems to think he can treat these veteran players as if they are children. Think about how you would react if someone came into your place of business and dictated what you could eat as a snack.
Girardi has not shown he is using good judgement in a lot of areas. He has shown himself to be a liar.
SJ, you might know a good deal about baseball, but you don’t know everything. You also have a blind spot on regarding Girardi. You have gone out of your way in defending him and ignore the things that he is doing that could lead to a meltdown in the attitude of the VETERAN players.
Girardi’s job is dealing with the people and personalities of this team. That is a larger part of his job than is deciding when to change the pitcher or (a rare occurance) change the lineup. Girardi got off to a terrible start with the press. Girardi has dictated about the foods that the players can eat. These are things we know. When there are those things out there, how much more is going on inside the clubhouse that we don’t know about that is hurting the team?
When people are unhappy with their situation and that unhappiness comes from the boss, their production suffers. This is going to happen in baseball or business.
Jenn leave the Rays troll alone I mean this is thier monumental moment, they are in “shocked” mode right now
“If I need a smile during my work day, I just think of the Yankees. It’s so funny how pathetic they have become. Reminds me of bit of the Detroit Tigers of 2003. You know, the team that lost 119 games.”
Yeah, because when I think about ineptitude the Rays NEVER come to mind.
It’s about time that those perennial top 5 draft picks of the past 10 years start to bear fruit.
brian(red sox fan)
“If you were to use a golf swing as an analogy, what Jeter does is called “casting,†which basically refers to a premature move with the hands”
that’s not what jeter does or he’d be hitting a wicked slice which what most amateur golfers hit for the very reason you mention. as in golf when hitting a power fade,a baseball inside out swing has the right elbow on the right hip. you don’t see the over the top move you are talking about.
this disconnect from the hands and the body you are trying to push just doesn’t happen or you wouldn’t see jeter ever hitting opposite field home runs.
trying to equate jeter’s swing to the typical amateur golfer’s slice swing is just another example of you trying to stick that needle in.
i got taught golf from dick rhyan,one of the best ball strikers on the senior tour during the 90’s. rhyan was taught by hogan. golf analogies might not be the best place for you to go when making a point.
especially when they sound so good ,but are so wrong. jeter got hit last night wih his hands cemented to his body. there was no casting. no bad hand use by jeter
… but thanks for the cappuccino recommendation. you seem like you actually know what you’re talking about there.
There was absolutely not a thing wrong with the pitch that hit our Captain. If not over the plate it was just inches off it, & nowhere near the
head. Pitchers HAVE to be able to pitch there.
Derek can alter the way he hits if he doesn’t like getting hit, but he is a warrior & is willing to pay the price for his style that makes him a great hitter. It was pure luck however that he did not get any bones broken in his hand this time.
That being said, Hawkins had every right to send a message to cause the other team to think twice about the consequences of coming inside to our Man.
It bothers me that Hawkins could not actually HIT Scott, & even more come SO CLOSE to his head on the second try. That is way out of line & should not be tolerated by ANYONE on either team.
I’m happy to see our pitchers finally consistently answer when our hitters are getting plunked this year, and also actually pitching inside on a regular basis, especially Mussina.
“He got fired after being named Manager of the Year by an owner who is a moron. The guy was Manager of the Year with a team that had a 12 million dollar payroll. Is that not a helluva achievement?” Honestly, no. In a sport where we see undeserving players getting a gold glove, and teams like the Rockies get hot at the right time, then no, manager of the year doesn’t mean all that much.
I love how you state an owner is moron, putting all the blame of the troubles on one source. In real life it rarely works that way.
Girardi came in here with more questions than anything else. People like you were lauding the change, lauding all that he was going to be bringing to the in game management.
We’ve seen the way he acts pissy when the team loses. If he is doing that with the press, how much worse would he be doing it to his team?
As a veteran of the game, you expect certain respect and leeway to have the maturity to do things as you normally do. Girardi has not shown that he is willing to give up ANY little bit of control. Control freaks aren’t going to mesh with veterans. Girardi is a control freak. You do the math.
A-P what are you getting at ? Tony LaRussa is an exception to that rule and so is Leyland from Detroit. Ned Yost did it bunch of times, it’s not Girardi’s fault that Damon can’t catch a simple flyball, the pitching has been better but the SP vs us are starting to challenge the hitters, the scouting report on Cano is out don’t throw him strikes, to Damon, Jetes, Giambi, Matsui pitch them inside they don’t have the batspeed to turn on pitches..teams now are taking the just throw strikes and challenge them inside approach, what is he suppose to do ?
Duncan has bat speed but can’t hit, Ensberg sucks, Moeller and Gonzo are not run producers, what is he suppose to do ?
While getting hit may well be Jeter’s cost of doing business, the Yankees need to get something going in the right direction. They’ve looked lifeless and lost most of this season, and maybe a good brawl will instill alittle life into these ga-zillionaires.
Brandon,
Have you seen who Chad Ford thinks the Knicks are going to pick in the draft? A 19 year old Italian forward whose father was a star overseas?!?! They say he’s comparable to Toni Kukoc but I’ll believe it when I see it.
I for one am not happy at all about the Knicks not getting one of the top 2 picks in the draft.
We will win a game soon? Right?
This losing business sucks donkey butt.
“Wow a Ray’s troll. A team that has never finished above 4th place is making fun of the Yankees. Did your team pick up thier 4th place award yet?”
Jenn – if you actually believe a Tampa Bay Rays fan has enough self-esteem to come to a Yankees blog and knock the team then I believe you are mistaken.
It is just another (or the same) Red Sox troll, trying to gain credibility by posing as a fan of a not-so-gay team.
raymagnetic
raymagnetic
EXACTLY!! YOu would think they should be a good team after have the first pick in the draft for the last 10 years!!
“as a fan of a not-so-gay team.”
– What does sharing a gold thong make a team?
Shocker, a Boston prospect pitches well. It’s nice when your young pitchers perform well.
Brandon,
D’antoni’s look says it all doesn’t it?
“There was absolutely not a thing wrong with the pitch that hit our Captain.”
tuscon ken,
you are a yankee fan .you watch wang.
he goes up and in with 4 seamers because they go straight. he doesn’t throw a two seamer up and in because he doesn’t want to hit a batter when the ball runs in on the hitter and have a runner on base.
if a pitcher wants to hit a batter and make it look like he wasn’t trying to ,the perfect pitch is an up and in two seamer that runs in on the righty hitter.
that pitch last night’s location was fine. the run on the pitch is questionable.
mariano had to stop throwing his two seamers up and in when he first learned that pitch because he was hitting hitters by accident and creating baserunners.
it’s not as simple as you are portraying it.
Regarding Florence:
You really can’t go wrong with any of the cafes in the city. My only suggestion is to avoid the cafes in the Piazza del Duomo, the main square with the largest cathedral. They are tempting with their open air patios and great people watching, but you’re going to pay 9 euro for a beer or glass of wine and 5 euro for a coffee, do the math, it’s not pretty.
I like to wander the side streets until I find a cafe or restaurant with no American’s in it. Eating and drinking your way through Florence is the most amazing way to spend a day of your life and it doesn’t have to be expensive at all.
This is a much more pleasant topic.
Look @ D’Antoni’s face..lol
What an awful night last night for NY Sports
Brandon, if you are feeling as if you are put under a lot of pressure – not only from yourself, but from your boss to perform, it can affect how well you can play.
I’ve seen poor managers of people who destroy production because of their style. I’ve seen where they have caused good workers to totally shut down.
There is a reason why they call the position manager. Be it business or baseball, there are some things, despite what SJ says, that cross over. Performance can be negatively impacted when you are pushed in a manner that you don’t like. If a manager is constantly getting under your skin it can negatively impact your play. This is more pronounced when you are a longer term player who has demonstrated skills.
I don’t blame every bad play, every strike out on Girardi, but team attitude falls quite a bit on him.
We see it in sports all the time, where a good player doesn’t jell with the coach or manager. Sometimes its about personality conflict. When a whole team is showing this many problems and the one thing that changed is the manager, then it becomes a little silly to put it on 9 people who are the same, instead of the one person who is new.
“Brandon,
D’antoni’s look says it all doesn’t it?”
yup
SJ44 is dead one with his ideas, especially moving Joba into the rotation and bringing up Gardner. For those looking for a football-like spark or motivation, those are moves that could do it. More importantly, they’re tangible moves that can bring results today and establish something for the future.
As far as Jeter getting hit, it’s not just a matter of diving (which he does). Teams have taken liberties with the Yankees because there hasn’t been much retaliation, regardless of whether there was any intent to hit the Yankee batter. If you want to compare it a Red Sox player, compare it to Ortiz. No one stands over the plate more than he does, but he doesn’t get hit nearly as much.
dammit if Betances can stop walking guys on he is going to be a stud SP, Montero just gunned out a runner
Can someone tell me the logic of keeping Joba in the bullpen at this point?
This team needs a shot in the arm. There are two players in the organization capable of providing it. Joba and Brett Gardner.
Send down Joba, get him ready to be a starter. If they start today he should be ready before June ends.
Bring up Patterson – he probably should have been with the team from spring training anyway.
Bench Damon
Bring up Gardner
Personally, I’d like to see Giambi have to buy a ticket to get into Yankee games here on out but I doubt they’d do that. Let Ensberg and Duncan play there. How much worse could they be?
Those moves could be all it takes. Baseball is like that. The “HA” game ignited the Yanks last year. Varitek / ARod fight ignited the Sox the year before. It does not take massive changes.
And to the poster who said “They probably have to go 66-42 to get to the playoffs this year – no way they can do that”. Sure they can.
Baseball is a game of averages that is played in streaks.
This season is not over but it does get late pretty early around here.
Brett Gardner is the LHH version of Reggie Willits.
This guy would be an awful major league CF if he were to be starting. Why does he get all this love? Some one explain it to me.
Dave
Because he is a speedy, small ball kind of player that we do not have. He’d be the only one of our regulars whose at bats would not be driven by the thought of “find something I can drive”.
Simply – he’s a breath of fresh air.
“This guy would be an awful major league CF if he were to be starting. Why does he get all this love? Some one explain it to me.”
Reggie Willits has an OBP of .391 in the majors. Are you telling me you would not take that from a guy who can steal bases?
one thing that we can all agree on and that is that there is something drastically wrong with this team.
the team remains out of sync with even the good players not playing up to expectations. arod was not playing well before he was hurt.
sometimes when things happen like this you have to shake things up for the sake of shaking things up. what would shake things up is open to question, but something strong has to be done.
opposing viewpoints have mentioned gardner. that’s where i would start. then let every other change come from making that first move. there would be changes up and down the line up and on the roster from putting the speedy gardner in the mix.
if it doesn’t work, move on to plan b. but at least the energy has been changed. the vibe they have now just isn’t getting the job done.
Also Dave, Gardner actually can play defense. So he won’t be “an awful major league CF”.
Betances is hitting 95 mph w/ ease right now.
yeah, i dont think anyone is expecting a guy like Brett Gardner to come up and save the season, but something needs to be changed.
Calling up Gardner is the obvious first option, because Damon and Melky have both floundered after decent starts, and because, as mentioned, he brings a different type of player to what the yankees currently have on their roster.
That MINOR LEAGUE on base percentage would see a decline because the pitching in the MAJOR LEAGUE is that much better. What do you think pitchers are going to do when they find out that this guy’s greatest strength is his walking ability and his speed? They are going to attack him with anything and everything in the strike zone.
Do you realize he has a career .339 SLG in the minor leagues as well?
BRING BACK CLEMENS!
Not to pitch; for heavens sake but to coach these wanna be bad guy pitchers that can’t seem to get the message sent by hitting one of the other teams players in retaliation. It seems the best they can do is miss!
.386*
Sorry, I was looking at Willits’ numbers.
Dave it can go the other way too, I mean who is Brett batting behind in SWB, Bernie Castro and Justin Christian, in the MLB he would be behind Jetes or Abreu so a SP would throw more strikes and guess what Brett’s plate discipline his eye at th plate is pretty good, he won’t struggle as much as you think and his LD % is at 30 in May, so when he makes contact it’s not an excuse me hit or out.
and chone figgins had a .385 slugging percentage in 8 minor league seasons.
and juan pierre had a .391 slugging in the minors.
whats the point?
“McAllister, Betances and Heredia (when he gets off the DL) are 3 guys in Charleston worth keeping an eye on this season.”
I agree completely, and that’s kind of the problem. I think they are the best the Yankees have in their system, yet they are all in Low A ball. The first to arrive will likely be Betances. When and if he gets his control, he has the makings of a dominating power pitcher. But at best, he won’t make it to the bigs until 2010.
All three I believe have a very bright future and are the REAL pitching prospects in the system. They have plenty more upside than the marginal prospects some people are pinning their hopes on (McCutchen, Horne, Kennedy.)
I still hold out hopes for Hughes, but I fear he may have been overhyped from the start and is injury prone. Joba, I believe, as I think we all do, will be the real deal once he gets into the rotation.
I have to say I just really can’t stand to watch this team right now. Players like Giambi, Damon and Abreu are past their primes and can’t catch up with fastballs. Giambi will be gone at the end of the season along with his wretched contract. Abreu should not be resigned. I don’t care how many pitches he takes per at bat. His walk rate is way down and, plus, how can you keep an outfielder on the roster that won’t go near a wall?
I’d say we could trade Damon, but who wants an aging leadoff guy who has lost his speed on the basepaths and his batspeed. Still, I’d take a bag of baseballs and a worn out glove to get him off the roster.
I say we call up Gardner who is really raking at AAA right now and see whether he has viability as a starter. Can he really do worse than Damon or Melky? And by the way Melky is in a terrible slide right now. Anyone who’s hoping he’s going to morph into the second coming of Bernie Williams is fooling themselves.
Of course, the roster will have to get younger before it gets better. But I’m not sure the only two young position players the Yankees have right now – Melky and Cano – should be considered untouchable.
Doreen:
“The problem is, every couple of nights or so Giambi will make a couple of plays or get a couple of hits that, as I’ve said before, add to his lifespan. He does just enough to make you think he could be turning the corner. Last night he hits 2 balls to the left of 2nd base. What are the odds??”
There should always be some doubt when you are coming to the end of a player’s useful career. If you have waited until there’s no doubt, then IMO, you’ve waited too long to make a move.
All you get from Jason now is a tease, or as you aptly put it, just enough to make you think he could be turning the corner. But that sputtering is the last gasp of his useful playing time in NY. He’s empty. As for the glove, for every 2 good scoops he makes at 1st, he makes one bad throw to 2d and fails to get to a ground ball.
Great guy, sorry to see him go but these occasional hits and webgems only remind you of what he used to be and what you really need at 1st base. It’s time to see Jason as he really is, and that, my friends, is not pretty. No way he’s still with the team after the AS Game, unless he starts hitting like a machine. And there I go again … still dreaming… still in denial.
It’s time to let Jason “almost” be an offensive force for someone else. Damon could be right behind him or he could ride the bench for the rest of the season as 4th OF and pinch runner. Yeah, let Shelly play 1st base for a week and find a nagging injury sending Damon to the 15 day DL and call up Gardner. It can’t be any worse than this.
Dave,
If you’re talking to me I was referring to Reggie Willits MAJOR LEAGUE OBP. You said Gardner is the LHH version of Reggie Willits. If that is what he is the Yankees will be more than pleased.
Brett at home .500 SLG in 78 ABs
Brett away .429 SLG in 70 ABs
“yeah, i dont think anyone is expecting a guy like Brett Gardner to come up and save the season, but something needs to be changed.”
a shake up is needed and putting gardner in the lineup would crate a ripple effect throughout the team.
that ripple effect is as important as anything gardner adds to the lineup.
the message is snap out of it or sit.
A Point,
You believe a manager can inspire players.
I believe, when you play 162 games in 180 days, a manager’s words have little effect on the team. Its been proven time and time again in baseball.
The same team started out the same way last year. That’s for two different managers.
The difference? This year, the league is a little tougher. Not as many gimmie wins to get back into things as last year.
Is that also Girardi’s fault?
You are so quick to take shots at me, you make points in which you have absolutely no proof to back up.
Girardi is a control freak? Really? You know this how, from being in the locker room?
We get the fact you don’t like Girardi. But, applying your examples, many of which aren’t applicable to sports in general and the Yankees in particular, as well as taking shots at me, its making anybody think you are bringing anything new to the table.
Let’s just agree to disagree on this one.
I think that dismantling of the Cubs in the World Series will be done this year by the REPEAT Red Sox!!!!
The problem with bringing up Pierre’s minor league track record is that he never struck out more than 37 times down there. He was putting the ball in play at a very high rate, at an ideal rate for a guy with great speed. Gardner already has 32 strikeouts this year and his minor yearly totals read: 90 (06), 75 (07).
Figgins is a guy that has pop in his bat, I have seen Gardner swing it and I’m sorry he doesn’t have that same pop. I don’t think you take away at bats from Melky or whoever else and give them to Gardner. That would be a waste IMO.
TO RAY:
Yea sorry, I didn’t release that you meant that and my answer would be an empathic NO. I want no part of a .391 OBP if it comes along with a .339 SLG and I am in no shape or form an OBP hater but in the majors you have got to swing the bat, even from the leadoff spot.
Rconn – There are several guys in between. Horne has much more upside than Kennedy and he will be back in games within a week. Garcia if healthy might be the best of anybody. Humberto Sanchez is back soon and was one of the best prospects in all of baseball. There is a draft in a couple of weeks.
There is plenty of pitching, and plenty of upside for starters staggered over the next several seasons.
There is plenty of pitching and plenty of upside for relievers coming really soon.
The position players at present are the ones far away.
Gardner has an .OPS over .860 right now. He has a reputation as a good defensive outfielder, albeit with an average arm. He’s certainly not going to hit 20 home runs, but he would provide the top the order with on base percentage and speed, which is something we currently don’t have right now.
I see everyone comparing him to Pierre or Willits, and maybe those people are right. But do we really know until he’s given the chance? Do you really want to continue to see old man Damon at the top of the lineup. How about ,I don’t know someone who can take a walk, beat out an infield grounder, and steal a base at the top of the lineup. What a novel concept.
And don’t forget the most hyped of the Red Sox young players is probably Ellsbury. Compare his numbers in the minors to Gardner’s, they are really not different at all.
AUSTIN JACKSON GRAND SLAM!!
Lets all stop following the big club and start following the minor leagues.
I’m not saying the bullpen is the problem. I’m not addressing any problems at all, in fact. I’m just making a statement…Scott Patterson should be on the team. He should have been out of spring training, and he should be now. 3rd straight season of dominating the upper minors as a 6′7 pitcher who doesn’t walk anyone and doesn’t give up hits….find me a handful of pitchers with the M.O. of “doesnt walk guys-striks lots of guys out-doesnt give up hits” in the upper minors for 2+ years that were NOT successful pitchers in the minors and I’ll buy you a beer.
“Your’re saying it wasn’t fair to have expectations? What are you talking about? I’m a grown man. I can take my heat and I deserve some for the performance of this club.”
“But, you better be careful if you are a player. If you are hitting .200 and .220 and striking out, you shouldn’t be popping off”.
“They want to play games, I’ll play games. I’ll quit protecting guys night after night after night after night. And, I’ll put names to it”.
Jim Leyland after last nights game. And they won!!! lol
Just goes to show you, no matter how accomplished you are as a manager, there is only so much you can do.
Sometimes, your team just isn’t good, they drive you crazy, and you end up hating them.
Quite a few people in baseball think Leyland hates his team this year.
After seeing and reading his rants this year, I’d have to agree with that sentiment.
“I have seen Gardner swing it and I’m sorry he doesn’t have that same pop. I don’t think you take away at bats from Melky or whoever else and give them to Gardner. That would be a waste IMO.”
when did you see Gardner swing it, you must have caught him on the recent slump, because I have MILBTV and when he makes contact he rakes it into the gaps..maybe your seeing some other I haven’t but I’ve seen all 3 of his HR, 2 were no doubters. I also think your making too much of his strikeouts like I said he’s batting behind Christian and Castro so he only gets a limited amount of strikes to hit but his .375/.446/.667 and OPS of 1.113 vs LHP saids he has a very good plate discipline.
the make up of the bench is horrible. even when he doesn’t play , gardner changes the makeup of the bench .
and yeah someone is going to lose their job if he comes up.
i like that message.
Jackson just went yard again his 2nd HR of the season
.339 slugging? Gardner’s career minor league slugging is .382 and it is at .454 this year. Power is the last thing to develop. Gardner will never have a ton of it, but also remember that a lot of singles of his can turn into doubles quite easy by swiping a bag. I wonder what his slugging would be adjusted for this.
his first AA grandslam 8-0 Trenton in the 4th
I meant “in the majors”
Nobody is saying Brett Gardner is a savior.
What some of us are saying is that we would rather see him in LF right now than Johnny Damon.
Some of us believe that even if he hits .250, which is basically all Damon has hit for most of the season, he will be a positive because he will be more aggressive on the bases.
He’s also a better defensive OF.
At this point, what’s the downside? He will go 5-35, misplay two balls leading to 4 runs, and throw a 22 hopper to homeplate to try and throw out a catcher at home plate?
What I described above has been Damon’s past week of “highlights”.
Perhaps Gardner can do better than that.
As we have seen so far this year, the bar is not exactly set high for LF production, both offensively and defensively.
If you are going to lose, lose with kids. At some point, you are going to have to find out if these kids can help you in the future.
As far as I’m concerned, the future is now. Might as well start mainsteaming some of these guys onto the roster and see if they can help.
Montero 2-2. Imagine how good he will be when the lineup is back to full strength and he has Almonte and Snyder in front of him, Laird Romine behind him.
Selling seats on the Yankee farm system bandwagon.
Please….minor league success means nothing at the ML level.
Ian Kennedy, Phil Hughes, Chase Wright, on and on and on
looking at the yankees’ position like it was a losing chess position tells us pretty much what the yankee hierarchy is seeing.
they know they have to make a move and they don’t have a lot of choices. after hearing gene michael say gardner has the same kind of speed that ellsbury has tells me the yankees are going to make that move.
last night’s game was a shocker and it takes time for them to take it in and react. barring a sudden turn around. i think we’ll be seeing some roster changes within the week.
“Please….minor league success means nothing at the ML level.
Ian Kennedy, Phil Hughes, Chase Wright, on and on and on”
Well Phil Hughes had success last year. Lets keep in mind I believe he would still be the youngest pitcher in the majors if he wasn’t on the DL. Chase Wright was never a big prospect. It takes time. Most guys don’t come up and become stars right away. The point is, Damon hasn’t set the bar real high to have more success than he is having now.
Hell has officially frozen over. Yankee boards are being hit by Rays trolls. I am in complete shock.
-sigh
Some folks just don’t get it.
Listen I don’t care if Gardner is batting behind two midgets dressed as clowns, strikeouts are strikeouts. Players of his skill set survive because of their ability to put the ball in play, meaning their contact rate, this gives them the chance to get INF singles or make these happen by forcing the defense to rush a throw or what have you.
He strikes out 21% of the time! (this year)
You know what kind of players strikeout 21% of the time? Guys who have power or guys who have no knowledge of the strike zone, something that Gardner apparently has because of his pretty good walk rate.
That’s it. I’m done with this discussion, hopefully you folks get your desire and get to see Gardner’s game unfold at the major league level.
“At this point, what’s the downside? He will go 5-35, misplay two balls leading to 4 runs, and throw a 22 hopper to homeplate to try and throw out a catcher at home plate?”
no kidding, and also maybe it’ll light a fire under damon . i don’t see it as a permanent benching .ellsbury doesn’t play all the time. coco crisp is playing better with ellsbury’s presence .
If you believe minor league success means nothing, you might as well stop watching baseball.
Certainly Yankee Baseball because, if you think this team is going to waste more money on overpriced veteran players, you are dreaming.
The the future of this team is in Scranton, Trenton and Charleston right now.
Barring bad health, homegrown players will make up over 50% of this roster from 2009 on.
That’s where the game is going today and the Yankees didn’t invest millions revamping their farm system to go back to their failed previous strategies.
Don’t like the current team? Well, its filled with free agent misses. That’s not going to be repeated in the future.
Don’t like the energy of the team? Old teams don’t have energy. That’s why many of us follow the minor league system. You want more energy on the Yankees? Its coming from younger players.
Its more important to chart the progress of Austin Jackson, Brett Gardner, Jesus Montero, Mark Melancon, etc, than it is to look at the free agent lists.
Those guys are the future of the Yankees.
Lets just say the Yankees keep playing at this kin of a clip.
How much longer can they go 3-7 every 10 days before a shakeup happens?
2 or 3 weeks maybe? I don’t know…
Randy,
Exactly. Its funny. Last year, Damon did nothing until Torre benched him. Then, he came alive. “Alive” being an operative term because, while better, he still wasn’t what they signed him to be.
The only way you get messages across to players is the bench. Speeches, hugging, words? They mean nothing.
You want to “get” to a player? Bench him. That gets your point across better than anything.
Completely agree re: Crisp/Ellsbury. They rotate 4 OF’s and it makes the Red Sox a better team. Both offensively and defensively.
Brett Gardner actually strikesout 17.8% of the time, hu LD % is 21 and his BB is 15.0%
Very srange that Gardner is hitting lefties at such a high rate.
SJ44 – Good timing. Charleston just put up a 12 spot in the 4th inning.
Battle hit his 6 HR of the season …he still K’s too much
Battle isn’t a prospect Brandon. He’s one of those guys that’s destined to stay in the low minors.
The Tampa team really doesn’t have any position prospects this year.
All of the position prospects in A ball are in Charleston.
LOL 22 hopper.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24753683/
WAY OFF TOPIC BUT A cute story non the less.
TABATA HOMERUN !!!
One last thing to the people pointing out Gardner’s current .473 SLG clip, if you take out his 6 triples you realize he is really SLG’in a robust .349.
Triples (at least in my book) aren’t a measure of power since it usually based on speed rather than power to hit them.
And just to be fair I’ll turn his 6 triples into doubles and you get a pretty good SLG of .432 but I’m not sure he can maintain any of these clips for a whole year at AAA. It is still May.. you have to keep that in mind when you look at stats at this time of the year.
I can safely say I have seen about 5 of the yankees prospects play if that many but anyone who says hughes, IPK, and others are afailures because what has occured so far are total friggin MORONS>>>
Dwight Gooden had instant success and not many others.. Even Rookie of the year players; todd hollansworth, mike marshall, and many others bomb out.
Prospects do not always succeed to start and if you are to impatient or just mentally challenged to understand this go watch something else..
I HAVE absolutely no clue if Brett Gardner is Lou Brock or michael bourn and neither do you……
I do think giving Gardner a chance is not a bad idea and if he fails so what send him down for more seasoning…
I do believe in addition by subtaction I have seen it over and over work.. why not try to trade Damon or Abreu or Kyle, why the hell not.. The have many options for the pen, yes some will fail but some will succeeed, these are legit prospects..Use there surplus in the pen to change the makeup and personality of the team, again why NOT???
CONGRATULATIONS JOSE TABATA ON YOUR FIRST AA HR
“click on my user name . with a few clicks of the mouse you could find out how to deliver your message in person .”
thanks for the invitation but I don’t intend on shopping in any arts & crafts stores for a few decades. i do like the Beachcomber though.
“One last thing to the people pointing out Gardner’s current .473 SLG clip, if you take out his 6 triples you realize he is really SLG’in a robust .349. ”
If you take out his 6 triples? If you take out a portion of anyone’s numbers of course they are going to look worse.
“One last thing to the people pointing out Gardner’s current .473 SLG clip, if you take out his 6 triples you realize he is really SLG’in a robust .349.
Triples (at least in my book) aren’t a measure of power since it usually based on speed rather than power to hit them.”
Why not count triples. The point of the game is the score runs and create runs. Hitting a triple helps score runs as you are now on third and if there are men on it helps create runs. Thats why you have adjusted slugging percentages for guys who steal a lot of bags.
Gallinari wouldn’t be a bad choice for the Knicks at 6th. He’s hyped up as a versatile 6-9 and is already a leader for a Serie A and Euroleague team (and my understanding of the pressure of Euro ball is that money is nothing, winning is everything…and player money apparently comes from winning). With any luck, he’ll inherit some of his dad’s defense (his dad was the type that hung around pro ball entirely because of defense/dirty work, as he couldn’t score for the life of him). At least, according to an Ian Thomsen article back in Jan 31. Maybe he can do Boris-Diaw work for D’antoni
At any rate, it’s a two-person draft anyway.
What did Brett do to you kill your dog or something? Why are you so intent on bringing down his stats?
Minor league success does not guarantee MLB success but they are certainly related.
Do you guys get any pleasure in the fact that the Sox are starting Barltolo Colon this eve? The only reason I like it is watching the Sox game this eve I will feel thin and handsome.
Have a good afternoon.
-dennis
For you SJ44,
*middle finger*
Brett Gardner isn’t a power hitter. That’s the point.
This team needs pests, not power hitters.
They need guys who can get on base, run, and set things up for the middle of the order.
Gardner has done that his entire career.
Look at it another way. What if he helps jump start this team? If he can be in a 4 man OF rotation, wouldn’t you agree it gives Girardi more options than he has right now.
You can’t take the triples out of his equation. That’s his game! That’s what he does.
In other words, he’s something the Yankees don’t presently have on their roster.
That’s why its worth calling him up, IMO.
What a day – The hitters are bringing the lumber in the minors today – hopefully portends good things for the big club tonight.
A couple things on yesterday that chapped my hide.
1. If Cano wants to half ass it covering his base than fine. Lets call it a brain fart. But to go up to the plate and continue to swing at things paractically bouncing in. On top of that swinging at first pitches. Is no longer acceptable. Someone pointed out Andrew Jones. Im starting to believe that his hard headed approach is not going to change. Time to bench him a few games(offense cant do worse)and if that doesnt work like SJ said find a taker. His laid back attitude is killing me to watch.
2. Mussina is at it again. Once you commit an error on the field. He makes you pay for it by packing it in. Some things dont change.
3. Time to bring some energy up like we’ve done for a few years now. Sit that old broken down Damon and call up Gardner. If this is a rebuilding year as some say. Then let the young kids get their feet wet.
4. Giambi is a tease. He has one decent game and stinks it up for a week straight after that.
Cant wait till MOOSE,DAMON,FARNS,GIAMBI and if he keeps this crap up CANO is no longer our problem.
Giambi’s hitting .275/.444/.575 in May.
Robertson, Cox, Dellin are the top BP guys, I think right now, although I would not short change any of the 5 guys mentioned on this post.
Brett and Justin (AAA) are almost interchangeable, although Justin is older, w/better arm. If one cares at all, I have been mentioning Brett weekly even before ST was over, Joe G. even liked him. Would it be to drastic to bring one of them up to play a few days, see what they have? 27/08?
AA
Jose Tabata (our diliquent)- 2 for 3, 1B, HR, 3 RBI
Austin Jackson – 1 for 4, HR(GS), 4 RBI
so far…
SJ,
I would think that the Tampa team has a few decent prospects (not great but could progress to fill rolls in the big leauges somewhere).
They include: Anson (HR today – who hasn’t), Hilligoss, Fortenberry and Sublett.
You have Tabata, Jackson (both hit HR today), Curtis and Cervelli (when he returns hopefully soon) at AA as really legit prospects.
But, in general the really high ceiling guys Almonte, Montero, Romine and the next level of Snyder, Laird are in A.
So many posts – so many different ideas; wouldn’t you think the Yankee brain trust has thought of most of these?
The one thing we all have in common (except for the trolls) is we’re unhappy with the way they’re playing and some of the personnel. Pls. these are not in numerical order; they’re just questions/thoughts on my mind and I don’t like getting yelled at though I would like feedback.
I wonder if Girardi, who gets so emotional is capable of handling his team meetings productively during a slump like this with the guys he played with and with the stars on this team.
I noticed Mariano looking really displeased a couple of times this season with the defense behind him; that seemed atypical for Mo.
I noticed Jeter looking really upset with his error (again) – and it didn’t help that YES didn’t show us that Cano wasn’t where he was expected to be leaving the impression (magnified by Michael Kay too many times) that it was just a bad throw by Jeter. I’m not trying to make excuses for Jeter but that should have been the first thing they told and showed us, I think.
I hate watching Moeller catch but Molina is not looking quite as sharp as he did as a backup catcher. I’ve been wondering if he really does call a good game. I’m not talking about Mussina last night but with Andy – Andy just doesn’t look comfortable with him. I know these aren’t things we or rather they can fix right now other than having the guys practice with whichever catcher is catching them the next go around.
I don’t know if Cabrera meant to hit Jeter but that sound was something else. On one hand, they had already won the game by the time Jeter got hit; on the other, I suppose they didn’t want any rally.
Re: the Yankee pitchers that are “hitting back.†Maybe I’m naive or foolish but I think they are intentionally not hitting the batters and just want to send a message. I don’t know Hawkins well; he seems like a good teammate from all we hear but I doubt he is that stupid to continue to throw inside and then up and inside intentionally. I’m sure they get angry when they’re losing and one of their best guys gets hurt but intentionally throwing at someone’s head? Farnsworth maybe – not everyone is crazy.
There doesn’t seem to be anyone to take Giambi’s place at first at this time and eating that contract will be tough to swallow though as a fan I wish they had someone else – both offensively and defensively. I did find it interesting that even Joba mentions him as 1 of the 2 guys he’s closest to in the clubhouse.
Cano needs to be evaluated for ADHD and get some psych help. He’s too capable to be hitting or rather not hitting the way he is.
All of you that have wanted Abreu to return next year – any change there? I’m feeling like the entire outfield needs to be changed. Johnny Damon’s best role these days is the voice in the clubhouse. While it’s an important role – it’s getting to be time for a change. Melky’s arm isn’t doing so well this year, he hit OK last month but…, and he just doesn’t seem to have that smooth direction to catch a lot of balls that we’re accustomed to seeing from Yankee CFer’s over the past 60+ years. I thought Damon could maybe mentor Cabrera but apparently not.
Where’s Cashman’s backup plan for if the young pitchers aren’t quite ready or if someone got hurt? How many times have we heard good pitching beats great hitting? People who compare this to the mid-nineties forget Andy was the only pitcher that came up and stayed in the line-up, Mariano tried starting — I’m glad Torre saw what Buck didn’t, Bernie had been there for a few years, Jorge wasn’t there yet so the comparison is not just apples and oranges it’s fruit and wallpaper, i.e. non-existent.
I’ll keep watching, rooting, and hoping things will change but I’m worried this year. Yes, they’re the same players but they’re a year older (and some really look it) and this is a more difficult division this year.
Brandon,
Tabata is now 3-4. Having a AA career day so far.
Tabata another hit and an rbi 3-4 hr and 4 rbi today.
Up to almost .240.
That “mental health days” he took a couple of weeks ago are really taking hold.
They have to bench Damon.
Benching Damon is one huge part of what turned this team around last year.
That and the talk/speculation that Cano was earning a one way ticket back to AAA. Although now that boy genius Cashman gave him the contract, the threat of AAA is meaningless to Cano.
But benching Damon is what got Damon interested in playing again.
If you remember last season, Shelley came up, got hot, the fans loved him and then all of a sudden Damon got faster and started to hit in the limited exposure Torre gave him.
The problem with this team, and it’s been the problem of the past few seasons, is that there is no fear for their jobs. They need to know that they’ll sit on the bench if they continue to play like stiffs.
I don’t think these guys are getting too much pressure and wilting. I think they are just dogging it. I put Cano and Damon at the top of that list.
I won’t call Giambi a dog. I think he’s more of a mule. He’s stubborn. If he changes his approach and goes to LF, he’s a .300 hitter in a few weeks.
Damon needs to benched. He’s asking for it.
I also think Cano should be benched and forced to work with Long. He needs to be humbled and shown that his spot can and will be taken from him if he continues to play like he is.
Bringing up some fresh legs or getting a role player from the scrapheap of another organization is what this team needs at this point in the season.
This is a last place team and anyone sitting here telling me they are playing the same way they did last season wasn’t watching last season.
Last season was about starting 20 different pitchers because of injuries and ineffectiveness.
While the offense was in a funk, Arod and Posada carried the team. Damon got benched. Melky got CF. Things started to turn around.
Damon is the problem. He’s our tablesetter, but I truly don’t think he wants to be here anymore. All that talk last season about him retiring or willing to waive his no trade was an indication that this wasn’t going to work.
If he had any integrity about him, he’d ask the team for a buyout or something where they didn’t have to pay him for next year.
If there’s a team out there that would take Damon and the Yankees only had to eat 1/2 the contract remaining, Cashman better deal him and get him out of town.
And as for Mr. Cano, I’ve been a critic of his for awhile and I’m actually sad I keep getting justified.
His mental game is awful. Everything has to be aligned perfectly for this baby to hit and perform?
Please.
If there’s a team out there that would trade us a top young starting pitcher for him, pack his bags.
Call up Cincy and offer Cano for one of their young stud starters and Jay Bruce.
I don’t know what you guys love about him as a player other than the fact he wears NY on his uniform. He’s one of the most infuriating players I’ve ever seen on the Yankees since Rickey Henderson.
Tabata update singles in another run 12 – 1 Trenton
Tabata today is 3 for 4 w/ 1B, 1B, HR and 4 RBI’s
“Brandon,
Tabata is now 3-4. Having a AA career day so far.”
tears of joy
“Call up Cincy and offer Cano for one of their young stud starters and Jay Bruce.”
You go on bashing Cano and than expect Cinci to even listen to a trade offer like this. They don’t have Helen Keller for a GM.
“Call up Cincy and offer Cano for one of their young stud starters and Jay Bruce.”
It’s a good plan except for the fact that Cincy already has a second baseman and there is no way that they’re giving up Hailey or Volquez and Bruce for Cano.
“I don’t know what you guys love about him as a player other than the fact he wears NY on his uniform.”
The fact that he’s 25 and a career .314 hitter probably has something to do with the Cano love.
Bruce and a pitcher for Robbie?
Well, we can dream, can’t we?
I do think that next time a top FA SS is available that moving JKetes to short (if Cano dealt), first or left is advisable
I have an idea, send down the entire major league team, save Mo and bring up guys from AAA and AA. THey can’t do worse than what has been playing up here lately.
Seriously I think they need to make one change, and that should start with Johnny D. Bring up Brett.
Seriously guys, Cano? He’s the least of the yankees worries, but we’ve got people wanting to dump him? Ridiculous, Giambi and Damon I’m all for getting rid of, but lets calm down people…..Cano shouldn’t be going anywhere.
Only negative of the day was Betances. Couldn’t even get 5 innings in to get the win in a 12-1 (now 12-2) game.
Walks did him in today. Six walks in 4 1/3.
The challenge in his development is being able to repeat that delivery. When you are 6-9, it takes time to refine those mechanics.
Its why I agree wholeheartedly with the Yankees decision to leave him in Charleston all season. Its best for his long term prospects.
Does anyone know how Jeters hand or wrist is? Will he be out for awhile?
Since were making crazy trade proposals to Cincy why don’t we also offer Giambi to Cincy for Votto.
So Cano and Giambi for Votto, Bruce and one of Bailey/Volquez. Yeah that’ll work!
Cano for Bruce and one of Hailey/Volquez is actually worse than Steve Phillips suggesting the Yankees trade Kennedy or Hughes for Cincy’s relief pitcher.
SJ do you see Dellin’s developement like Randy Johnson’s ?
I’ll play 1st base!
Have the fans fill in.
Can’t be any worse…
Betances if he can get his mechanics and control together can be really good. Not many hits off of him (even today), not many runs, and lots of Ks. It takes a bit longer for such a tall pitcher, but if the Ks come down watch out.
I would like to venture to suggest that this afternoon’s minor league HR fest was inspired by A-Rod’s HR last night.
Sorry if the BB come down.
Odenreider hits a homer the RiversDogs are up 19-2 in the 6th
bam bam,
Does this remind you of last year? Everyone including myself wanted Cano traded. He went on a tear and we all changed our minds. Maybe he reads this blog as well. So if your in here today. Quit the lazy act. Stop swinging at crap pitches/first pitches. Focus more. If you cant do those 3 things then do that act elsewhere.
Jeter wants to play tonight.
Brandon,
Like RJ in the sense that it will take time.
I don’t think anybody can say whether or not he will have a HOF career.
He’s a hard worker. That’s a plus. A HUGE plus, as a matter of fact.
Its just going to take time. That’s a kid you draft and follow (to use a hockey term) for 3 years and see where he is.
Also, he lost just about a full year of development last year with the elbow injury.
This is really his first full season playing minor league baseball. His first two seasons were in short season ball and one of those was cut short with the injury. He’s pretty good considering his relative lack of experience.
edwar pitched awesome last night eventhough he didn’t get to warm up normally. the yankees will win today.
Just hearing Mike and the Maddogg.In their 20/20 update did they say Pedro was going to Puerto Rico for his father.
I thought Pedro was Dominican.
Cano is hardly the least of the Yankees worries. Hardly.
His 2 month disappearing act has yet again put this team into a hole offensively that correlates to the standings.
Once again, it comes down to stats vs. actual performance.
If he ends the season hitting .300 that means he went on one helluva a tear in the 2nd half.
It still doesn’t take away that he sucked for the opening stanza of the season and his disappearing act and the team can’t count on him for any measure of consistency.
His offensive struggles are why we can’t survive the loss of a couple of players from the lineup. It’s why we can’t survive other people having slumps.
Cano’s not having a slump. A slump is a few weeks. A month tops. This is past the point of a slump.
Do I believe he will turn it around and hit .300. Absolutely. But what’s the value of a player who plays like the worst 2b in the league for 1/2 the season helping the team fall into a hole that they have to scramble to get out of.
They looked at Cano as a potential #3 hitter in this lineup, yet anytime the manager bats him above the 7 hole he fails. Anytime any sort of responsibility and expectation is put on the guy, he wilts.
He only shows his true talents (and he is uber talented) when there is zero pressure on him in the lineup. He’s a prima donna.
Manny’s a prima donna, but he hits and hits and hits.
Cano doesn’t.
Maybe some day he will, but all of you stat/metric types answer me this; For the past 2 seasons Cano has not performed above replacement level for the opening months of the season.
Is that enough of a sample size to you to indicate that we should now expect that for the rest of his career?
I’m just wondering, because 2 seasons in a row of miserable failure out of the gate seems like a decent indication of what we should expect from this guy.
I know I think Betances is 2nd in the league in strikeouts but also in walks. It’s weird this is actually a successful season for him, this season all they wanted him to do was pitch his innings pain free, his pitch count limit is from 90-94 he gets around that no matter what inning they pull him, today 4 K’s, 6 BB in 4 IP because he wasted most of his pitches on walks all in all I think he’s gonna a special player in the future.
“Call up Cincy and offer Cano for one of their young stud starters and Jay Bruce.”
You thinking maybe Cincy would ignore the fact that they have a 2B with better power, speed and defense than Cano?
There’s no doubt Cano can be a maddening player.
If LF and 1B were more settled positions for the future, there is no doubt I would listen to offers for him.
His contract is friendly and he would bring talent in return.
However, because LF and 1B, two very important positions, are in such a state of flux, all you can do with Cano is hold onto him and hope he gets hot.
Can’t deal him now. You definitely don’t deal him when he is hitting .200. That’s selling low and that’s never a good thing.
If you want him gone, its best to hope he gets hot, has a good year, and they fix LF and 1B in the off-season.
This way, you deal him from a position of strength, not weakness.
SJ44,
All of your reasonable posts cannot overcome this disqualifier:
the words “deal” and “Robinson Cano” in the same sentence.
Oh yes, let’s trade the best young position player we’ve had in about 10 years, who has the best set of hands since Don Mattingly, and let him win Gold Gloves and Batting Titles for somebody else.
Great thinking.
Glad you ain’t the GM.
“Do you guys get any pleasure in the fact that the Sox are starting Barltolo Colon this eve? The only reason I like it is watching the Sox game this eve I will feel thin and handsome.”
post of the day, right there.
testing
F -
Look, I understand we can’t trade Cano.
I just don’t love him as a player as so many other people on this blog does.
He’s not helping this team win. He’s playing like garbage.
I know he’s not the only one. Look at my previous posts, I want Damon benched, I want a real 1b.
It’s not all Cano. But for a guy with his talents and abilities to be doing the same tired act again this season, it’s just sad.
No one knows the reasons why he is playing this poorly, but the fact remains that he is. Again.
You don’t build winning teams around young players who don’t start hitting until the All Star break.
Just show us something. Anything.
And as for my outlandish idea of Bruce and a pitcher for Cano, a few points.
If Cano is as great as all you proclaim him to be, why wouldn’t they want this gumdrop of a 2b from us?
Not to mention that I’d be more than willing to add talent to the offer to get a young impact OF and a starting pitcher.
But that was just an example of what I think Cashman could be doing instead of sitting in the corner with the blanket pulled up to his eyes chanting, “they’ll come around”.
The team needs new blood. They shouldn’t have to sprint for the finish line every year because of massive failures early in the year.
Not with this much talent on the team.
Please don’t compare Cano to Mattingly.
He can’t hold Mattingly’s jock.
trade cano talks?
STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD
Did I say deal him? I was using an example of why you DON’T deal him.
I said you don’t sell low.
Try reading next time.
I was merely pointing out to G Love why dealing him is NOT an option at this time.
In the off-season? You listen to offers for everybody who doesn’t have a no trade clause.
Doesn’t mean you deal him. But, you listen. That’s what good GM’s do anyway.
“If Cano is as great as all you proclaim him to be, why wouldn’t they want this gumdrop of a 2b from us?”
Because they have a better 2B than Cano already?????
G, i think Cincy was just a bad team to use as an example because they already have Brandon Phillips at 2B.
i agree, i think Robby has the potential to be a perennial all star 2B, but its frustrating to watch him battle thru his early season slumps. he’s a better player than this.
but i also believe that any player on the roster can be made expendable if another team is willing to overpay to get him.
Fredo C…
Yes, but do they have a 3rd baseman? I know nothing of Cincy, so I don’t know. I do know that when A-Rod was not coming back they had mentioned him moving to 3rd. 27/08?
As Fredo mentioned (thus causing me to hit up baseball ref), the Reds have a good 2B of their own right now
Brian Phillips is 27 and has been improving over the last couple of seasons, and he’s playing far better than Cano right now. Right now he’s batting .301/.344/.532.
As talented as Cano is, why get him when he’s struggling for a highly regarded outfield prospect and a pitcher when you already have a very good 2B?
For the people who are saying not to deal him. If i can recall we dealt Sorianno and recieved a pretty decent player for him. After Alfonso sucked hard in the playoffs. I would trade anyone on the team accept for Wang,Jeter,Joba,Arod,Mo(might have missed a name or 2). If we got something good in return. That would better the team. Alot of you were probably pissed when we traded for Oneil or Justice. Just saying. You have to trade good players to get good players in return.
Austin Jackson update:
Jackson just hit 3 R triple, he now has 7 RBI today, including his first GS of the 2008 AA season
Oh man we need a win tonight…
Or at the very least a well-played game…
Is that to much to ask?
11 RBI for Tabata and Jackson today.
They must have watched last nights game and realized opening may be in the offing in NY! lol
Sorry, Brandon Phillips, not Brian
Turn Two — Thank you for seeing my point.
I wasn’t saying Cincy was the place. I was using them as an example of considering trading Cano for some talent since he’s one of our biggest trade chips.
He should not be untouchable.
Not after the second season in a row of this tired act.
If you read my posts I readily admit that he will hit .300 by season’s end.
My point is simple to understand — I don’t care what the back of his baseball card reads at season’s end when a player disappears for months and hurts the team in the standings.
If Cano could just hit .260 for the first 2 months of the season with a hint of power, we’d be much closer to a .500 team than we are now.
SOS, exactly. its not like you put Cano on the market to gage interest and then give him away for nothing.
Mick:
Reds do a have a 3B in Edwin Encarnacion, a young guy with a decent bat.
They aren’t moving Bruce and the pitchers anyway, but they are fairly set in the infield for awhile with Phillips, Votto, Encarnacion and Keppinger.
‘thanks for the invitation but I don’t intend on shopping in any arts & crafts stores for a few decades. i do like the Beachcomber though”
just what i thought. all talk no action.
Changing the subject for a second. Did anyone see Arod running to first on that error? He didnt look that smooth. Can he still be hurt and playing through it? Jeter came back to soon and im just hoping that Arod didnt do the same.
If you bench Damon, and assuming 2-7 in the order remain relatively similar, what does the lineup look like?
Gardner leadoff?
Melky 8?
Molina/Moeller 9?
ROBINSON CANO, 2007 PLAYOFFS:
.333/.375/.800
ROBINSON CANO, 2007 VS. LEFTIES.
.328
ROBINSON CANO, 2007 VS. REDSOX
.330 overall
.359 @ FENWAY
ROBINSON CANO, 25 YEARS OLD
THE CURRENT TIME:
FLIPPIN’ MAY.
Let’s just get rid of this vermin. Lord knows we hate players under 30.
yes i am very intrested in seeing colon 2night lol
Trade Cano? No way the only thing consitant about young players is inconsistancy. Be Patient. I admit the team looks dead. Not sure whats going on in the clubhouse but i dont think its good. The yanks have not been playing well most of the season and im past thinking players are slumping all at the same time, there is someting wrong we dont see. they are not playing nothing like last year…the same guys you saw getting 6,7,8 pitch at bats are not getting close to that. None the less itsill early folks and none of the teams above us as really hit a skid yet so who knows…just enjoy the season no matter how bad it is it will only make the good seasons sweeter.
of course, because everyone here is advocating for the outright release of robinson cano.
i ment the are playing nothing like
i dont think id bat Gardner at the top right away if he were called up.
id prob hit Jeter, Abreu, Matsui, Arod, Giambi (DH), Shelley(1B), Cano, Molina, Gardner.
Yeah, it’s not as if we suggested potentially trading him for other top YOUNG talent in the league. Did I say trade him for Bryan Roberts? No. I’m talking high ceiling young guys.
I get it. You guys think he’s the 2nd coming. Good for you.
I think he stinks right now and the team needs him to just show up and contribute. I’m not asking him to hit .333. I’m just asking for .260 with a double here and there.
That’d be nice.
“id prob hit Jeter, Abreu, Matsui, Arod, Giambi (DH), Shelley(1B), Cano, Molina, Gardner.”
No Cabrera???? I know he’s not a very good hitter, but he’s a better one than Duncan. Duncan is nearly the trainwreck at 1B that Giambi is.
Bodhisavtta,
I dont understand how you can accuse everyone here that would want to trade Cano as being stupid. Noone is saying to trade him for a bucket of balls. Sorianno had more power, hit in the 300 range,was young and guess what? Cashman happen to be bull–itting with their gm and pulled off a trade that no of us would have ever immagined. We traded a young all star for a young mvp. My point is if you cant get something of equal value. Then you dont do it. You dont trade for the sake of trading.
Would you still pull the trigger on Sorianno today? Dont answer that. I already know the answer.
No not the second coming just a player i see with potential… he is playing poorly and has mental problems at the plate…..but so does our 3rd baseman whom i think is the second coming….j/k but he is dam good
I would have Melky lead off and Gardner bat ninth. Till he got his feet wet.
oops, sorry Fredo, i knew i was forgetting someone.
i dont think melky is a very good, natural leadoff hitter… doesnt get on base enough for me.
I want your opinions on this lineup.
Abreu-sees alot of pitches and has some speed.
Melky-sees pitches and seems to be more patient when guys are on base.
Jeter-Good with men in scoring position.
Arod-nuff said.
Matsui
Giambi-till we can find a replacement.
Cano-till we can find a buckett of balls.
Molina
Damon or better yet Gardner.
“i dont think melky is a very good, natural leadoff hitter… doesnt get on base enough for me.”
You got that right. Melky’s place is at the bottom of the lineup.
There is nothing wrong with planting rumors that Damon is actively being shopped and the team will positively not be picking up Giambi’s 2009 option under any conditions as they both ride the pine.
Both players are not so stupid that they don’t realize that they’re contributing nothing to the team and if anything, wonder why they weren’t taken out of the lineup sooner.
It amounts to the Yankees playing with a 23-man roster but it’s also addition by subtraction.
Cashman can’t sit on his hands for too much longer. He can start by DFA-ing a completely useless Ensberg and calling up Brett Gardner. Girardi has to clear Cano’s head by sitting him and playing Gonzo at 2nd base for a series. There’s little flexability on this team as it is but whatever can by squeezed out should be tried.
Nothing ventured – nothing gained. Like a nagging toothache, this team has 2 options. Fill things or pull things.
SOS,
I might flip flop Melky and Abreu, only because I think Abreu is better with someone on in front of him.
In fact, I think our best leadoff hitter is Jeter right now.
I’d do
Jeter
Abreu
Arod
Matsui
Melky
Giambi
Cano
Damon/Shelley (since Gardner’s not up yet)
Molina
Torre used Jeter as a leadoff guy in the past and he knows how to handle the role and knows the importance of getting the team started off right.
I’d also consider benching Cano for AG or Betemit at 2b for a few nights. Can’t get any worse than what we’ve been seeing.
Glove,
Good point. Just fyi. Jeter had a better OBP the year he was leadoff than Damon. So its not that far fetched.Arod 3rd? I always like to see speed in the 9th spot. Another table setter.
SJ,
Do you know if Juan Rivera of the Angels and ex Yankee is healthy this year? If he is he’s buried on there bench as there 5th outfielder/dh. Wondering if he would be a nice option?
Reading the entries here make me think that most Yankee fans are complete nuts. There seems to be an attitude that Jeter is somehow especially protected, and should be invulnerable to getting hit. Players have an obligation to try and avoid pitches, not dive into them. Baseball isn’t about drilling guy in the head with pitches, although the Yankees might think so since they have had some of the all-time headhunters on their staff in recent years (Clemens, 9th all time and Johnson, 3rd all-time). Johnson has hit 185 men in his career – for comparison, Bob Gibson hit 102. I especially like the whining that Hawkins pitches “weren’t that close.”
From Rotoworld:
“Jhonny Peralta was benched Tuesday for the second straight game after making a pair of errors Saturday.
“He needs to be better than that,” Wedge said. “It can’t happen. He’s far enough along in his career where he shouldn’t have stretches like that. You’re going to have bad days. But you can’t lose focus defensively or give away at-bats. You just can’t do that.”
Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer ”
Wouldn’t you love to see Girardi do and say something like that about Cano, Damon, etc?
OBoy! Same idiotic talk again this season…”Deal Cano.” Robbie is probably the most talented postion player in the Yankee Organization. He is still 24 years old and learning his craft. Deal him and replace him with what?
Does he make defensive mistakes? Yes.
Is he an undisciplined hitter? Yes.
Does anyone believe that he will wind up hitting .200 with and OBP of .310?
If you do, you’re a poor judge of baseball talent.
Cano is not hitting, but he is only a tiny sliver of the problems that have contributed to this poor Yankee start. How about inconsistent starting pitching and a MLB-low .160 BA with RISP???
And, BTW, for all those criticizing Cano for his “laziness” and “lack of heart” causing Jeter’s error last night – Cano was playing far off second and deep in the hole with two outs and a lefty pull hitter up (Luke Scott), so covering second on the grounder to SS was not a given.
“Robbie is probably the most talented postion player in the Yankee Organization.”
Not as long as Arod is alive. That you Mrs. Cano?
You talk about trading away Cano for young players with upside…is this a joke? Cano IS a young player with upside. Comparing his talent with Mattingly’s is appropriate; that’s how high his upside is.
Your ideas are emotionally fuelled. He’s not going to hit .260 with a double here and there. Eventually, he’ll be back to his comfort zone: .300 and higher. The real question is, why are you even talking about Cano as trade bait??
Why are you even talking about a kid with a swing like that, a track record like that, a glove like that, a lefty bat that normally torches lefthanded pitching….do you think players like Robinson Cano grow on trees? Honestly….?
Sorry, you don’t have reason on your side. The Yankees are rebuilding, Cano is a huge part of that future; this is a 5-10 year plan; we’re NO LONGER trading our young players, didn’t you get the memo?
If you don’t get why he is an untouchable – and he is – well, then……I’m sorry, you don’t have the tools to evaluate your own players.
Sorry Fredo, I meant to say “that has been recently developed in the Yankee MiLB organization”.
Obviously Jeter, Bernie, and Jorge’ were crown jewels of 90’s Yankee organizational development.
Not only as long as Arod is alive but, if we are talking minor league prospects, I’ll take Jesus Montero’s future over Cano’s any day.
Look, all of us realize Robbie is a talented kid.
However, he’s not immune to criticism. Especially with the way he has played this year. Plainly put, he has been awful. Nor, is he some untouchable talent.
He just isn’t.
If the Yankees could make a deal that would improve their team, they would deal Robinson Cano in a NY minute.
Not because he is a bad player. Its because the team comes before ANY individual player.
“Comparing his talent with Mattingly’s is appropriate; that’s how high his upside is.”
Respectfully disagree. He’s a very good young player, but he’s never going to be the player Mattingly was at his peak. Swings at too much crap (the .342 was an abberation – the .304 career average is about right)to win a batting title and does not measure up defensively to the best of his position today the way Mattingly did in his.
LathamJoe, if that was the case and Robby was playing that far off of 2B, that is communicated between middle infielders. the way Jeter reacted, he fully expected to see Robby at the bag… not a good enough excuse for me.
Cano is not in Mattingly’s league as a player. Not even close.
On pure talent? Yes, more talent than Mattingly. Unfortunately, it takes more than talent to be a great player.
Work ethic? Not even close.
Don Mattingly didn’t need to be reminded on a daily basis to bring it each game.
Robbie makes more mental mistakes in a month than Donnie made in season’s. That’s not an overstatement.
Some of you may be too young to remember Mattingly at his peak. He was great. HOF great. His back gave out. Only thing that kept him out of Cooperstown.
Don’t confuse talent with all the other intangibles needed to be a bigtime player.
At this stage of their respective careers, Mattingly had it. Cano does not.
Doesn’t mean he won’t have it as he matures. But, as of right now, he is a very erratic, yet very talented, player.
He ain’t Mattingly.
“I want your opinions on this lineup.
Abreu-sees alot of pitches and has some speed.
Melky-sees pitches and seems to be more patient when guys are on base.
Jeter-Good with men in scoring position.
Arod-nuff said.
Matsui
Giambi-till we can find a replacement.
Cano-till we can find a buckett of balls.
Molina
Damon or better yet Gardner.”
SoS I’d rather do this
Jeter (keeps him away from DP)
Abreu
Matsui (nore strikes)
Arod
Cano (gives him some strikes)
Giambi
Melky (good situational hitter)
Molina
Gardner (if he’s called up, Jetes protects him)
Perhaps it was Jeter who was in Error on the play? Theres 2 outs and the ball was hit directly to him with the runners taking off. They BARELY got an out a week ago on a toss play to 2nd where Robby had to jump over a sliding player.
Jeter should be more focused on going to first to get the SURE out.
His throws have been off line all year long, blaming it on Robinson Cano is ridiculous.
Mattingly is what made me a Yankee fan. Thats coming from someone on the other end of the U.S. If it wasnt for Wade Boggs. He would have been more recognized for his hitting and probably won more batting titles.
noone is excusing Jeter for his awful throw… but as a middle infielder, or really an infielder in general, you are always taught to go the short way if/when you can.
its cano’s mental error. they happen, but when you are losing games, you cant afford to make a mistake like that.
“Not only as long as Arod is alive but, if we are talking minor league prospects, I’ll take Jesus Montero’s future over Cano’s any day.”
I would certainly wait until Montero is able to progress through the MiLB system and have as much success as Cano HAS ALREADY HAD before I would make that comparison. I don’t know how far back your Yankee history goes, SJ, but are you familiar with the names Frank Leja, Tommy Carroll, Bill Burbach, Ron Blomberg, Dennis Sherril, Matt Drews and, of course, Brien Taylor? How great was their upside at A level?
I agree on Montero. Not even sure what his position will be. Does not look like it’ll be catcher. Lot of passed balls and they run at will on him. Is he a DH??? A 1B? What?
I am familiar with all of those names Joe.
I am also old enough to have seen Arod, Miguel Cabrera and Vlad Guerrero as 18 year olds. Montero is in their class as a hitter and he’s a catcher to boot.
Something you don’t see in the game today. A power hitting catcher at 18 years old.
I am talking just about talent on a pure level. Montero hits balls right now that Cano wasn’t even getting to at 18.
He is a special, special talent.
You are correct, he may flame out. Chances are though, if his attitude and work ethic (which are great) and health (he’s completely healthy) continue, he has a very good chance of being in the majors prior to his 21st birthday.
For a catcher, that’s amazing.
Plenty of sloppy defense to go around last night, Cano, Jeter, Damon…
I haven’t figured Cano out this year. Clearly he has enormous potential and has demonstrated such. Lately he seems as if his mind is somewhere else. No discipline at the plate, his lackadaisical approach to defense, he is extremely frustrating to watch night after night. Currently he certainly isn’t living up to the Rod Carew comparisons.
Can we get someone to impersonate Larry Bowa ? Maybe that’ll do the trick.
Nice to see some dialogue going on here about potential solutions to the Yankees’ problems. After last night’s game I was driven to insanity with all the “just wait it out,nothing needs to change” drivel.
I’m just catching up here and I see SJ44 once again making some sound suggestions and being joined by a host of other posters.
Robbie Cano is an enigma. Do you base his value by the outrageously bad 160 at bats in ‘08 or by his previous 1,500 at bats?
It’s tempting to go along with those who think he needs a seat on the bench for awhile. But I think we need to hold our nose and cross our fingers while he works through it playing regularly.
Johnny Damon needs to be taken out of the lineup. With or without him, The Yankees don’t have a lead off hitter. SOS 27’s lineup is intriguing. Damon’s play in left field is unacceptable. Teams run on his arm on short flies. After seeing what happened with IPK, I’m hesitant to rush Gardner. But if the Yanks can’t move Damon, then they are left with little choice but to try Gardner.
Jason Giambi needs to be given a choice. Either attempt to hit the ball the opposite way or take a seat on the bench. We’re stuck with his $22 mil salary, otherwise he wouldnt even be given an option. I’m all for benching him now and platooning Duncan against righties and Ensberg against lefties. Ensberg’s only potential to help this team is by hoping his past performance against lefties can be duplicated. Otherwise, Ensberg is as useless on this roster as Giambi. One of Cashman’s biggest mistake was compiling a roster that does not include a legitimate first baseman.
well Jerkface to be honest YES always finds a way to clean up for Jeter, it’s amazing he throws a hail marry nearly to the stands and it’s Cano’s fault, they were playina DP depth w/ Cano to the right side of the field Luke Scott is a freaking LHB that’s how you play it, Cano scrambles Jetes doesn’t have him at 2B and flings it in the air to Giambi, Ken Singleton and Micheal Kay immediately blurt out Cano should have been at 1B, real classy and real fake !
SJ44,
This is your post I was responding to. And I always read carefully and closely:
“Cano, one of the players the Yankees are banking their future on, continues to play himself into a position where dealing him has to be put on the table.
I don’t want to hear the “he misses Bowa†nonsense either. Coaches come and go from teams in this game. If Robinson Cano needs Larry Bowa to perform, then trade him to the Dodgers. They have a plethora of young players and he would bring a couple of much needed parts back to the Yankees.”
There you have it.
TurnTwo:
My point is that, unless you were there and observed where Cano was positioned, its presumptuous (and idiotic) of someone to label him “lazy” or “with no heart”.
I did not see Cano’s actual positioning, but did hear the Announcers state that perhaps he was positioned deep in the hole for the lefty pull hitter. The grounder was hit slowly to Jeter, and if Cano was positioned that deeply, than the proper play is to first (unless the hitter is a speed burner). Jeter is much less confident in his throws to first with “Giambi The Butcher” there.
*correction*
well Jerkface to be honest YES always finds a way to clean up for Jeter, it’s amazing he throws a hail marry nearly to the stands and it’s Cano’s fault, they were playing DP depth w/ Cano to the right side of the field Luke Scott is a freaking LHB that’s how you play it, Cano scrambles Jetes doesn’t have him at 2B and flings it in the air to Giambi, Ken Singleton and Micheal Kay immediately blurt out Cano should have been covering 2B, real classy and real fake !
exactly no one has anything to say now do they
Absolutely, dealing him should be put on the table.
He’s not an untouchable player.
For example, what if the Yankees could make a deal that would help them in two areas?
Just for discussion, what if they can get Ryan Braun and Matt LaPorta from Milwaukee for Cano and a couple of young arms?
You do that deal, or do you pass because you believe Cano should be untouchable?
If that deal was ever on the table, I bet the Yankees make that deal and not think twice about it.
That would give them a 24 yr old, powerhitting LF and a 24 yr old powerhitting first baseman. Both RH hitters.
They don’t need an all star at second base if they filled those other areas of need.
That’s what I am talking about when it comes to Cano.
I’m not saying, “give him away”. I am saying, a discussion about his value should definitely be on the table.
I don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t be.
Dudes, don’t diss Giambi receiving at first. If there is ONE THING that Giambi is very excellent at, its Scoops and Stretching out at first.
Giambi has saved Jeter 20 errors this season already. Its ridiculous.
If Jeter freaks out because Cano couldn’t charge 30 feet to 2nd base to beat out a guy who was running with the pitch, then I don’t know what to tell ya.
I agree with Brandon. YES immediately looked to make an excuse for Jeter. I think its time to put some pressure on Jeter re: defense.
What does he always say when they ask him how he feels about being last in defensive efficiency? “Well I don’t think a computer can really understand BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH”
Jeter needs to start thinkin about movin somewhere
Why is it not even considered that (a) Jeter looked to see if Cano had managed to get there, even knowing he was playing in the hole, and when he wasn’t there, decided to go with plan b, the throw to first, but made a bad throw; and (b) Jeter was p-o’d at himself for making a bad throw?
Why is everything made so over-complicated with subplots and malicious feelings towards teammates. It is possible that it was Jeter who was not aware of where exactly Robby was. Just opening the door to that possibility.
It’s like the kid in school who never did anything wrong, so when he did every once in awhile, not only did he not take any “punishment,” but other people were often blamed.
The throw stank and there was plenty of time for him to make a good throw; he knew it, and he was upset with himself.
There is so much blame to go around right now on this Yankees team. No one is consistently having a good inning, let a lone a good game, and forget about a stretch of good games. Everyone has made their share of both physical and mental errors and no one has done well at the plate with RISP.
I realize it’s cathartic to vent and try to solve the problem(s) here, but no one player is at fault and you can’t trade away the whole team and you can’t make momentous decisions (i.e., trading Cano) in the midst of a crisis. Smaller ones, like benching Damon and/or Giambi, sure. One would hope Cano gets his act together – soon – and fulfills his potential.
The Yankees did trade Alfonso Soriano. During the 2003 playoffs, when he would not get his act together – in spite of all his speed and home runs, he would not change his approach at the plate, he became an easy strike out; plus he loved to admire his homeruns and was admonished often for doing so. But I don’t thing they actively sought to trade him. They liked Soriano, but when the right deal, a deal you don’t turn down, came along, they traded him. If the same situation arises around Cano, they will do the same thing. But they’re not going to be shopping Cano around anytime soon.
The Soriano analogy is a good one. If the Yankees have a chance to trade Cano for a player as good as ARod, there might be a point to that.
Of course, the Yankees already have the only player as good as ARod, so it’s a pointless argument.
Here are my suggestions:
LF Gardner, bench Damon use him as on a rotating basis.
RF Abreu, i.e. until we can get someone else to take his place this year. I don’t care, trade or minor league call up, just get him out of there.
CF Melky, but I would not be opposed to moving him to right and putting Jeter out there.
3b Rodriguez
SS Jeter
2b Cano for now, but look at possible trade scenarios because he is a player of value.
1b Giambi for now, but platoon him with Shelly.
C Posada
Starting Pitching: Wang, Pettite (but he is weakening with every start), Chamberlain (soon!), Kennedy, Hughes. Mussina for spot starting and long relief.
The relief pitching looks ok to me, nice mix of vets and youth.
Other than that, I don’t think the Yankees can do much else. Play it out and hope for the best. Bring up youngsters (e.g. Gardner) to see what we got, make a trade that makes us younger, not older, and start disciplining players who are not gettin it (you listening Cano?).
Some of us are actually OLDER than some of us, friend.
I was dragged to Yankee Stadium in the early 60s, so enough about me being “too young” to appreciate Mattingly. You actually need to take your own advice; I said Cano’s name in the same sentence as Mattingly’s is appropriate, not outlandish: he has that great an upside.
As for your assessment of him as a “good” player, for some reason, you, and some others on here, don’t see the skill/talent differential that I do; he IS untouchable, he is NOT replaceable.
As for his “work ethic”, I don’t wish to make a blanket statement, but I think an unconscious racism MAY be at play, here. He is from the Dominican Republic, he has a different vibe about him than the standard-issue blue collar, “white” ballplayer. He also is smooth, and doesn’t look like he’s “working” hard, because he is better skilled. For years, Mario Lemieux (whom english canadian writers never cared for) was accused of not “working.” NO – he just made things look easy, he didn’t waste energy. Someone here called Cano “lazy”, and I don’t think that’s accurate: in fact, his “loose” attitude may mean he succeeds more in the tough spot because he possesses a certain relaxation that othe great talents do.
He is a great talent. Not good. Great. Right now, he’s struggling something awful. But that’s the aberration, the good is to come; it has before, it will again.
I sometimes want to murder Cano.
But I would never trade him.
I don’t understand why the very idea of trading Cano for the right return value is getting people so upset. Why? He’s not untouchable. Frankly, the list of truly untouchable Yankees should be quite short. I don’t think Cano is on it. For the RIGHT trade offer (if one exists) – why is it not open to debate?
I just re-read my post.
Forget it: here it is:
If you regarded Cano’s ability as highly as I do, you wouldn’t even suggest moving him.
Therefore, our viewpoints on this player cannot be reconciled.
That’s all.
bodhisattva
I tend to think of Cano as more relaxed and “smooth” in his fielding approach, as well. I don’t see him as lazy or lackadaisical. His arm is accurate and he seems to know how long it will take for a throw to get where he needs it to go. But my husband disagrees with me, so we don’t talk about it.
I don’t think there’s necessarily even a subconscious racism at work, though, in people who see his style of play differently.
Sorry, but Giambi is horrible defensively, HORRIBLE! last week,on two successive days,
he reacted so slowly on two wide throws (he laid out like a beached whale) which caused throwing errors on Ensberg and Jeter. Jeter was so upset, the camera caught his reaction and you could read his lips: “G–damn Giambi”.
Then there’s the errant throws to second to start the DP. Now if your hitting .280/.405 OBP and driving in runs you can “put up” with the poor defensive play occasionally. Giambi is hitting near any of those numbers.
Bodi–If you think Cano succeeds because he’s relaxed at the plate, please pass me the hookah you’re smoking from.
With all due respect bodhisattva (love the song by Steely Dan by the way) I don’t see what relevance Cano’s race has on the discussion.
bodhisattva – one thing about Cano – he has a horrendouS average with the bases loaded, so i’m not sure how great that loose attitude will work in the tight spots in the futre
I don’t see any indication that Cano is an A-Rod caliber player. I think he’s more similar to Freddy Sanchez of Pittsburgh.
Ok. I love ARod. Really do. But ARod is NOWHERE NEAR the natural hitter Robinson Cano is. ARod is a great player, with tons of ridiculous power, and most of it isn’t pull power, which speaks volumes for that power, especially in unforgiving Yankee Stadium (for righties).
He does not have the hand-eye precision as a batter that Cano does. It isn’t even close.