Today in The Journal News
-
- May
- 21
A-Rod came back last night but Derek Jeter was injured and the losing continued for the Yankees. Brian Heyman has the story.
Edwar Ramirez got some good advice over the winter. This notebook also has news on Darrell Rasner and Chris Britton.
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So let me get this straight, Derek Jeter gets hit on the hand in the third inning and in the sixth inning LaTroy Hawkins decided to hit Luke Scott and missed twice before getting ejected?
So now Hawkins will join Melky Cabrera, Shelley Duncan and Kyle Farnsworth as players who have been suspended this season. Well, at least the Yankees lead the league in something.
The book on Jeter is to pitch him inside because he dives over the plate as he swings. Every pitcher knows this and Jeter knows this best of all. Getting hit is a cost of doing business for him. Jeter has been hit by a pitch 132 times in his career and the vast majority have not been on purpose. Watch him swing the bat.
If the Yankees retaliate every time Jeter gets hit, they’re going to run out of pitchers.
UPDATE, 2:45 p.m.: Of course the rabid dog posters who think baseball is wrestling totally didn’t understand what I wrote.
If another pitcher hits Jeter on purpose, then by all means the Yankees should retaliate.
But Cabrera was clearly not doing that. Any pitcher, including Yankee pitchers, have the right to pitch inside. When Jeter dives in and commits to a pitch, he’s going to get hit sometimes. Or do you really think that 132 times he has been hit were intentional?
I’m all in favor of the team taking care of matters that need to be taken care of. But that doesn’t mean every HBP is a call to arms. Or spikes if you’re Shelley Duncan.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, May 21st, 2008 at 2:40 am by Peter Abraham.
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Damn straight the Yankees should retaliate when Jeter gets hit. Yes, Jeter dives over the plate, but it’s not okay for teams to be busting the captain up and in.
Another day another Yankees loss…Wake me when its football season..Go Giants!!!
Now that was an ugly defensive game.
Jeter’s error in the first cost the Yanks the game…of course Moose should have gotten one more out, so it’s not all his fault.
The very next inning Jeter grounds into a double play…ouch.
That’s when I knew (or thought) that the game was over…
Not a good game by our captain.
But at least we’ve got A-Rod back - wooooooooooo! And he started producing big time right away…
Edwar is made of awesome! More Edwar stories!
I want to see Edwar in pressure games! Not just Joba, Farny, and Mo. Lets go Edwar!
The Yankees pitchers should take some acting lessons. They need to have the capability to plunk whomever they want while make home plate umpires believe that’s a accident.
Spoken like a true Red Sox fan…
My feeling is the Yankees have to retaliate every single time their stars get hit. Particularly when it’s 9-0 and the pitch is very clearly up and in.
If we’re going to lose, that’s baseball and I can live with it. But we don’t have to take that cr@p on top of it. A rebuilding year is a great opportunity to establish ourselves as willing and able to protect our own. If a pitch is thrown such that our guy can’t get out of the way… well you better stay on your toes.
And Boston-Pete they may have been the ‘greatest team ever’ but they went 18 and 1 GIANT loss!
its called baseball and called protecting your stars and its something the yankees lacked for the past few years.
Is anyone going to complain about Papelbon and his fist pumping last night. I’m shocked that the media hasn’t created a controversy about it yet. Joba caught so much cr@p for it shouldn’t Pap?
When is Scott Patterson getting called up? He hasn’t given up run in his last 10 outings or so covering about a month. Working on season number THREE of dominating AA or AAA.
Pete…yes, unless the pitch is actually over the strike zone, then evertime Jeter gets hit, the Yankees should retaliate. It’s like Jim Kaat used to show…if you are going to pitch inside, you’d better have control. If Cabrera is going to come up and in (and that pitch was not close to the plate) during a 9-0 game no less, he’d better have more control. Otherwise, his players will face the music. Actually sticking up for themselves is the only thing this team has done right this year.
Forget Papelbon…did anyone see Krod’s reaction to his save against the Jays? He let out a scream that made Joba’s look like a wimper, pumped his fist until he struck oil and then extended his arms and looked skyward as if expecting to ascend directly to heaven.
Pete its a little difficult to see Jeter get hit where he did and not hope to see retaliation. Does he jump over the plate, yes, but if we saw Ortiz get hit there I have a feeling the Redsox would retaliate. The head is the wrong area, I would of preferred to see Millar get drilled in the butt twice.
And there is our problem. Jeter can get hit ALL FRIGGIN’ day, intentional or not, but IF the Yankees protect him, our pitcher is 99% of the time ejected and suspended. Who is that icehole handling all those suspensions again ?
Last night’s retaliation was justifed. Jeter gets hit many times with balls that a barely off the plate because of his hitting style. Last night was a case of a pitcher who has devastating stuff but suspect command.
Hawkins two pitches were “messages” and were in no way even close to Scott’s head. The ejection, however, was necessary because Hawkins seemed like he wanted to send “messages” until the benches would empty - perhaps to light a spark under his Team and its pathetic performance over the last week.
Damon and Giambi definitely need to go - they’ll hit for 3-4 days and then slump badly for 2-3 weeks. Damon may be tradeable during one of his hot streaks. Giambi, however, needs to be paid off and sent packing.
I’m sure Cashman can engineer a minor deal to pick up a temporary answer to 1st base. Either that or convince Jorge’ to play there.
Maybe a shakeup like that would wake this team up!
What Will said but I’d also add that Hawkins, like Cabrera, needed to be sure of his control too.
Here’s the thing about Damon and Giambi last night. Giambi got 2 hits, and although one looked “lucky” the other was a true hit, and both were to the left side of second base. He also made a couple of decent defensive plays yesterday. Damon had a hit, and then hit the ball hard right at people the rest of the night. The last one, especially, looked like it should have been a hit, but the second baseman made a great play on it. His error in the field was atrocious, and he missed diving after a ball which resulted in the triple, but no one can say he didn’t bust it.
So, you have two guys who maybe are not getting the results the Yankees need, but neither one of them is “dogging it.” Right now Cano is the one player who looks the worst. He looks lost at the plate. I thought that 4 for 4 day was going to help him snap out of this, but it hasn’t. Not getting over to second base last night wasn’t a good thing, either. And later in the game, I guess he was anticipating a double play, but misplayed the ball and only got one out. That won’t be an error on the scoreboard, but it sure didn’t look smooth. How do you get him going? You hear that he continues to work with Kevin Long, but so far, there’s no in-game result. It surely looks like he’s down on himself, so how do you build a guy up?
Today’s another new day. Another chance to get back on track, one game at a time. They need a good, clean, crisp game that ends in their favor. And soon.
I, too, must disagree Pete.
When you’re getting killed for the second straight game, and youe captain leaves with an injury, it’s time to do SOMETHING.
LaTroy pitching up and in can only help give the Yankees some fire. Why not?
Last nights and early am posting was brutal. Please don’t lose another game Yankees. Wow, if that had been a bar, a lot of people would have gotten hurt.
I must say; I am very disappointed in the team this year. One could say they are getting to old/slow to hit the fastball, to old/slow to run/play good defence. If one agrees with this Old/Slow axiom, why wast the season, try something different. Rather then give up on the team, trim it, as soon as possible. From Joe D., Vic Raschi, Yogi, Allie Reynolds on down the line, I’ve seen this team play…but I’ve never seen them give up on themselves or play so flat for so long. They have had bad teams, but not like this. Maybe I am getting to old to understand…I was a very very bad loser, still am. I would like to see some fire out there, not just puffing up your chest. Knock a batter on his butt once in awhile, no need to hit them. 27/08?
of all the things that happened last night, cano not covering 2nd base irked me the most. ok, so he’s slumping at the plate, but everybody says he’s trying hard, so you have no choice but to wait it out. but not covering your base? was that ‘trying too hard?’ to me its pretty inexcusable.
One thing I notice about this team is that the on base percentages are no where they use to be. In fact some of them are very close to their batting averages. I think they have to start working counts and taking walks. This is how you win.And then turn the pitching around. This can be done.
I do have to say, though, that at least there is no public sniping on the Yankees among teammates. Neither Mussina nor Jeter would point fingers elsewhere, and in the post-game, I don’t know if anyone else noticed, but Jeter’s answer about the error play in the first made it subtly clear he was not going to talk about anyone else’s play, just his own.
I think the Yankees need another “HA” game. Good thing ARod’s back.
Rick…
Good idea, only thing is…the pitchers are throwing 1st/2nd pitch fastballs right down the middle. When you are constantly 0-2 or 1-2, you are in trouble, therefore you can’t work the count…the pitcher is working you. 27/08?
(1) I’ve posted before that I think that Papelbon’s reactions can be over the top, but let’s not lose sight of the game situation which precipitated the negativity towards Joba’s fist pump …. eighth inning, two out, bases empty, three run lead.
Last night, Papelbon came in with the bases loaded in a one run game …. VERY different game situation.
It’s simple: the emotional outburst should be proportionate to the game situation.
(2) Jeter has a unique hitting style wherein he pushes his hands into the strike zone and then “flips” the bat in order to have the head of the bat catch up (see page 40 of the 5/19 Sporting News, if you don’t believe me). Combining this fact with the fact that he strides into home plate, he has a lot of troube getting his hands out of the way. It’s very hard for him to rotate his body so that his back and shoulder protect his hands. Jeter knows this, and it’s not just stoicism that precludes him from going after opposing pitchers after he’s been hit.
I understand the frustration of Yankee fans, but Pete has it right. It’s no accident that Jeter has been hit so many time, but it’s not brcause pitchers are trying to plunk him.
Pete-
you couldn’t be more wrong. I guarantee if Mike Timlin did this after Manny Ramirez got ‘pitched up and in’- it would be a matter of doing the ‘right thing’. They may need to pitch him inside to keep him off the plate- but that pitch way a good 6-8 inches OFF the plate. It was definitely a purpose pitch and Hawkins did the proper thing by sending a purpose pitch back there way. The only things he did wrong were missing with the first pitch and throwing the second pitch too high (at his head). Hit him in the hip/back and no one should even be able to complain about this.
This was not the standard Jeter HBP insomuch as it had nothing to do with him diving over the plate. Recall the Pedro episode where he hit Jeter and Soriano?? Those were both hanging over the plate HBP’s. Last night was high, tight and well off the plate. Wish Hawkins came down a little lower on his retaliatory effort, but I’ve got ZERO problem with him doing it.
“of all the things that happened last night, cano not covering 2nd base irked me the most”
Agree 100%. For all the fun we poke at the midget up in Boston, I’ll take a 2B with no hair over the 2B with no heart.
Brian-
with all due respect- you couldn’t be more wrong here either. they aren’t ‘trying’ to plunk him- but they are definitely pitching him up and in ‘not caring’ if they hit him. Which deserves a reaction. It is about time someone stuck up for Jeter and said no more.
Would you, as a Red Sox fan, be okay with Ramirez getting plunked repeatedly? I don’t think so.
“Is anyone going to complain about Papelbon and his fist pumping last night. I’m shocked that the media hasn’t created a controversy about it yet”
Thought I noticed a little evil eye from Olivo at the end. Maybe a Red Sox hitter gets plunked tonite. When did Papelbon start throwing a slider???
chazzh, in case you missed it, nobody cares what Brian thinks.
You know, I think people have got it wrong about Cano having no heart, or not caring. If he didn’t care, I don’t think he’d be down on himself. Could he use a better approach, or a reminder not to let the poor hitting get in the way of his fielding? Probably. You may be able to say his style of play is more “laid back” than you’d prefer, but I don’t think you can question his “heart.”
Don Vito.
noted. sorry for stepping out of line- I just can’t believe people can’t see that LaTroy sticking up for the cap’n was needed and should be commended (except for getting close to his head)
Brian
If Jeter’s hands are in the strike zone when he gets hit, it’s on him. If the pitch is out of the strikezone when he gets hit, it’s on the pitcher.
Damon’s stock answers of “We’re better than this” has gotten old and dry.
Hey Damon !!!!
Look at yourself in the mirror and see a classic underachiever. Make sure you’re standing next to Cano.
Good news …
The ‘ace” of the starting staff goes tonight. Yep, Darrell Rasner will be on the hill.
3 bad defensive plays in the last 2 games cost the yankees 13 runs. abreu’s 2 terrible throws to the plate (neither of which was cut-off) could have prevented 6 runs in the mets 8th inning on sunday and cano’s not covering 2nd opened the floodgates to 7 runs in the 1st inning last night. i realize the offense is struggling but even if it was hitting on all cylinders, 13 runs in 2 games is alot of making up to do b/c of bad defense.
Might be right Doreen. The “no heart” thing may be unfair. However, he surely lacks something. Lack of professionalism, maturity or perhaps the intangibles we like so much about Jeter (along with his tangibles, of course). Something isn’t what it needs to be.
Questioning any players heart is unfair.
Reporters seem to think that the Bowa tough love approach was good for Cano. In the absence of Bowa, someone else needs to step in and keep on him to keep his head up and in the game.
ESPN hoots like Steve Phillips, Gammons, et al are chomping at the bit wanting to trash the Yankees beyond belief but their superiors are holding the reigns. The frustration is eating at them.
Chazz - You’re missing my point. Manny doesn’t get hit a lot because he keeps his hands back and strides forward. If the pitch is inside he can rotate his body and/or lift his hands. There is no vendetta against Jeter. Why hit him when he hits mostly singles, anyway?
Jeter gets hit a lot because of his hitting style. He gets frozen at the plate as a result of his technique (again, he pushes his hands into the hitting zone first, AND he dives into the plate). Why do you think that his left-handed batting glove has a steel plate in it?
P.S. ARod getting hit is a different story, Teams throw at him (including the Sox) because (a) they don’t like him, and (B) he might hit a HR. So, on ARod, guilty as charged. Not so on Jeter.
Pat :
Right now, the only Yankee that would verbally ride Cano into tears is Jorge and it’s coming soon.
i dont pretend to know whats going on in cano’s head right now, but i sure hope that girardi had him in his office last night to give him an earfull. i’d like to see him benched for tonite.
this situation reminds me alot of when andrew jones was a young player with the braves. cox did a brilliant job of keeping him at peak performance, moslty by encouragement, but on occasion by benching him and one time even pulling him off the field in mid-inning. im thinking thats what robbie needs right now.
This is getting out of hand now.
What’s to be done?
“Jeter gets hit a lot because of his hitting style.”
100% correct. However, last night’s HBP had nothing to do with his hitting style and retaliation was warranted.
Pete first of all Daniel threw at one of our players, can’t recall who but he also had to duck and dive out of the way. Also the pitch to Jeter was WAAAAAYYYYY inside.
Pat - I should have said “in the hitting zone.” But that leaves his hands in a very vulnerable position on pitches that are off-the-plate-inside. Pitches that wouldn’t hit his body still catch his hands. I can’t think of another hitter in MLB who so exposes his hands. Even other “inside/out” hitters like Wade Boggs kept their hands back. Jeter’s style is unique, and leaves him vulnerable.
This team should hang their heads in shame for disgracing the Stadium in it’s final year.
If Larry Bowa were still here, he would have ripped Cano a new one…on the field. Wouldn’t even bother to wait til he got to the dugout…right there on the field….then he would have taken his glove, spit on it and thrown it into the stands…walking off the field cursing and flapping his arms in disbelief.
I love these red sox fans talking about why Jeter gets hit all the time when they have a player whose entire arm is handing over the strike zone yet he never gets hit. You know why?! Cause if he did he’d beat the living *** out of the pitcher and his pitchers would hit the other teams batters.
Pete,
I really like your point of view sometimes but come on… the O’s were leading by 10 runs at the time. There was absolutely no reason to pitch inside at the risk of injuring a player.
The problem with the Yankees is simple. Hitters are getting older by the minute, and they can’t turn on the FB like they used to. Pitchers are starting to notice this and are using mainly FBs against them. They are getting ahead in the count with the FB which the Yankees can’t hit, and that’s why they are not working walks anymore. As a result of always starting the count 0-1, Yankees’ hitters are trying to hit that first pitch FB, thus now working the count or getting walks. That was very clear last night as Cabrera, of all people, needed 80 something pitches to work 7 innings, with 0(!!!) walks. When you let a guy like Cabrera pitch 7 innings in less than 90 pitches, and you can’t even work a walk against him, you know your offense sucks.
Lets do the math. I love the fact that many on this blog are keeping it positive saying the Yanks will get hot. Boy I hope so. Howver lets do the math, If the Yanks continue to lose and give up more games heres what they are setting themselves up for. Right now Boston is 28-19 with 115 to play. Lets say boston does poorly for them and plays 1 game under 500 the rest of the way. that makes them finish with a record of 85-77
The Yanks would have to go 66-42 the rest of the way to finish one game ahead. Thats 24 games over 500 the rest of the way. NOw, that does not count or matter if the red sox play better than 1 game under 500, Nobody can think they`ll do that, and it does not consider if someone else in the divsion gets hot. I think its asking alot. Every loss matters
Brian, as much as it pains me to agree with a red sox fan, you are correct. Because of jeter’s hitting style, he gets hit a lot, mostly in the hands. I am all for protecting your team as a pitcher, but throwing at the head is not called for. I do think that Jeter got a raw deal with the error in the first inning. of course it is his throwing error, but you could tell he was pissed that cano didnt get to second in time to make the easy out. thats where the game was lost.
bob hope- did you forget last year already?
Bob Hope - you have very little hope considering your name. The Yankees always find a way.
I still holding out hope for a turn around. Last year we were in a similar position with out pitching slightly worse and our hitting slightly better. I have more faith in the hitting turning around this year than I did the pitching last year.
Jennifer -
This 2007 team didn’t have quitters even in the worst of days. This team does. They don’t even look like they’re trying and their facial expressions tell a lot.
Jennifer - You don’t get it. LOTS of MLB batters MOVE when the pitch is at them. Jeter gets locked in/frozen.
The pitch to Luke Scott (throwing at LUKE SCOTT??)was at least as far inside as the pitch that hit Jeter. Scott MOVED, and the pitch missed him.
In general, it is OK to move hitters off the plate. Every inside pitch doesn’t have to be no more than 6 inches inside. There’s an expectation that the batters will try to get out of the way. Jeter doesn’t, and he gets hit by pitches that other hitters avoid.
They probably chose to throw at Luke Scott because he came up with two outs and no one on.
Brad you have to hold out hope that they will turn it around, otherwise as a fan it will be a very long year.
But I believe they need to start making changes, dfa, trade just get rid of the dead wood. Sorry to say it cause I actually like him, but with Damon, and Giambi. Bring up Brett Gardner, and figure out something with first.
Yankees stink but at laeast the minor league pitching prospects are looking great -
http://tinyurl.com/6g287h
Ian - you’re absolutely right (re: throwing at Luke Scott). An astute baseball observation, factoring in the game situation. Good analysis - I only saw the replay, so I didn’t know that.
Injuries or not, these Yankees were overestimated coming out of spring training. The depth has been exposed for what it is. No quick fixes on the horizon because they’ve finally come to roost after several years of using that failed bandaid approach.
Not even a hint of team chemistry.
our hitting at this point last year was not slightly better last year, it was monumentally better… and its amazing because, minus Posada really, its the exact same team.
Johnny Damon made a joke out of playing LF last night, and if i were Girardi, the minute Cano doesnt cover 2B in the first inning, i pull him out of the game. forget his struggles at the plate, those kind of mental errors in the field are inexcuseable.
this team right now is listless and lethargic. they are sleep walking thru May, which is something i NEVER thoguth id say with Girardi managing this club, and i would love to hear from someone what they see in this team right now that would help make fans believe theyve got a run in them like they did last year…
take a step back and forget the NY on the chest, and just look at the numbers. if this were any other team than the Yankees, they’d be crucified.
for me, i hope that Cashman simply recognizes that even if they have a run in them, there is no chance they win #27 this year. im with SJ in the fact that if they continue to perform this way, it just makes it easier for Cashman to continue with his development plan and retool for a legitimate shot in 2009.
this first base situation is ridiculous. we keep throwing giambi out there despite how obvious it is that he has nothing left, mostly b/c we have no options. what the hell was cashman thinking when he let phillips AND mientkiewitz both go? who did he think was going to play 1B? i could give him a pass if his plan was to use giambi IF he had kept someone who could at least play decent defense late in games (or when wang is pitching). now i know a bunch of you will say this is 20/20 hindsight, but its not b/c several ppl, myself included asked that very question when the let the two of them go. cash totally blew this one, and it was plainly obvious at the time.
Three straight bad starts in a row by three different pitchers, the only ones the team can rely on. Egregious, inexcusable errors, omissions and misjudgments by players like Cano and Jeter plus two really bad plays by Damon last night, losing a pop up in left and then diving when he should have played it otherwise. A continuing failure to be able to score more than 2 runs. No proven pitching answers in sight, just some hope for a miracle in a young arm or two. The bottom line for me is that this team has run out of ways to win despite all of their talent and experience. Results - as opposed to all the talk about desire - speak loudly and the results are saying that this team has quit on itself.
Before anybody pounces to defend good intentions as opposed to results, let me say that there are at least two kinds of quitting. There is lazy, obvious quitting, nonchalant play reminiscent of Miguel Tejada who couldn’t be bothered running out grounders to 1st base when he played in Camden Yards. And then there is quitting in the form of collective failure, an inability to be positive, creative and find a way to win. Yeah, there’s more parity in the league, but come on. With all the talent and experience on this team, I refuse to accept that this is anything other than plain failure. This putrid season is all on the players.
This team plays like losers, waiting for something bad to happen and in so doing makes bad things come to pass at the plate, on the mound and in the field. The 90s Dynasty Yankees were not the most uniformly talented group of baseball players to ever take the field, but they were stronger inside than this bunch and understood the team concept. It’s not about destroying water coolers, or throwing helmets. It’s about leveraging every man’s best efforts every night to just find a way to win.
Yeah, it’s May and yeah they were here last year. But when it happens a second year in a row, under a different manager, it should make you wonder. This team is giving off a stink. On almost every other club in every other sport, ownership makes a dramatic move at a time like this to find some player(s) who can help spark the pride and change the losing culture. It’s time.
This team has hit a low point.
There really can’t be anywhere to go but up now. I mean, seriously now. They can’t play any worse then they have this last week.
jeter hits with an inside outside swing that keeps his hands extremely close to his body on inside pitches. there is no hands diving across the plate.
jeter when he does decide to pull a pitch still gets his hands inside the ball. the “flip move ” is a figment of your red sox imagination . what jeter does is dive in with his body. his hands get hit while they are close to or up against his body.
he gets hit often because his body moves in ,not his hands.
and furthermore, if a pitcher wants to go up and in( which i advocate), he has to do it with a 4 seam fastball that doesn’t run away from where the pitcher was aiming. that ball last night chased jeter. it didn’t look like a 4 seamer to me. pedro used to throw 2 seamers up and in all the time and that’s why he was considered a dirty player.
have you seen wang hit many batters when he goes up and in. no you don’t because he doesn’t throw his two seamer because he knows he can’t control it up there and that it will chase hitters. he throws a straight 4 seamer that he can control.
the players know when a pitch is dirty. yankee retaliation by hawkins showed exactly what the yankees thought about that pitch.
don’t come into our house after a tough loss , and try to pass off red sox propaganda as fact.a and as far as knowledge about hitting mechanics, you do better when you stick to giving advice about restaurants in italy.
girardi couldnt pull cano after not covering 2b or it would have looked like he was covering for jeter. im just as pissed (maybe moreso) than anyone here about that play, but b/c of jeter’s throwing error, pulling cano wasnt the right thing to do there.
brian red sox fan-
the above comment is obviously for this comment from you :
“Jeter has a unique hitting style wherein he pushes his hands into the strike zone and then “flips” the bat in order to have the head of the bat catch up (see page 40 of the 5/19 Sporting News, if you don’t believe me). Combining this fact with the fact that he strides into home plate, he has a lot of troube getting his hands out of the way. It’s very hard for him to rotate his body so that his back and shoulder protect his hands”
Glenn
Sometimes a slap with a velvet hand is more effective than tears.
Cano reminds me of a kid in junior high sometimes. A little too confident in abilities that may not be fully developed but needing a little more reinforcement than he may think he needs to keep him focussed.
Brian
I agree in principle but while the the inside corner of the plate belongs to the pitcher, the batters box doesn’t. A hitter getting out of the way might be expected, but it is not guaranteed.
As for Alex getting thrown at, there’s a name for pitchers who throw at someone because they don’t like him rather than fear his potential to hurt them with his bat- Little Leaguers.
Brian does make some sense, and for a Red Sox fan, that’s quite an accomplishment.
well said randy I
murphydog, thats a great point.
“But when it happens a second year in a row, under a different manager, it should make you wonder.”
qft.
“They probably chose to throw at Luke Scott because he came up with two outs and no one on.”
yeah , they didn’t want the game to get out of hand.
I don’t think it was that they didn’t want the game to get out of hand. They probably knew Hawkins would get tossed and wanted to do what they can to make sure he didn’t get a run on his pitching line, after pitching what had been a very good outing.
Peter,
You get worse and worse everyday. You’re borderline horrible now.
You know, Moose said something last night - he said, the game was over in the first 15 minutes (many people here have said the same thing, but we’re fans, we almost always think the worst). Certainly, then, it’s fair to assume that no one (or very few) on this team believes it can come back from a deficit.
He also talked about the lack of consistency this season and the lack of enough positives to hang your hat on to help you believe you can turn it around.
Jeter said in this morning’s Star Ledger, when asked, that the team has had meetings and people have spoken up.
Minor leaguers coming up before their time is not going to help.
well said murphydog!!
The “no heart” issue is fairly presented. It’s in their record, it’s in the errors, it’s in their otherwise inexplicable inability to score more than 2 runs in a game - they are not facing Koufax every night. It’s in the inability to get on a roll. No heart? It’s like the Emperor’s New Clothes… nobody wants to believe it because they are the Yankees and the Yankees have pride. Well, if you took off their pinstripes and really looked at this team there would be no doubt about it.
I can’t read minds, nobody can. While behavior without words can be ambiguous, this record is no longer a small sample. Results this bad earn harsh questions and the players had better be asking themselves and each other this very question. Compare the talent to the results and the only question is: how much do you want it?
Just because it turned around last year doesn’t mean it will this year. You MAKE things better. Not wait for someone or something to make things better.
Biggest problem I have with this team is they seem to be waiting for someone else to come along and make it better.
I’m sorry but when you have as much talent as you have on this team, waiting on Arod and Posada to dig you out of this hole is weak. VERY weak.
If that’s the case, I’d rather blow it up, play the kids, and see where it takes me. The veterans on this team have been a HUGE disappointment so far this year.
Seasons don’t just happen. Your play MAKES seasons happen.
Right now, its just a poor mix of players. The bench is ineffective. The age and declining skills of players on the roster is on the rise. Cano, one of the players the Yankees are banking their future on, continues to play himself into a position where dealing him has to be put on the table.
I don’t want to hear the “he misses Bowa” nonsense either. Coaches come and go from teams in this game. If Robinson Cano needs Larry Bowa to perform, then trade him to the Dodgers. They have a plethora of young players and he would bring a couple of much needed parts back to the Yankees.
Unfortunately, its like a perfect storm of everything that could go wrong with the team has gone wrong. Injuries, age, declining skills, underperformance, all of it at one time.
What to do about it? Not much right now. There is no trade market on May 21. These guys have got to play themselves out of it.
If they don’t, it makes it real easy for Cashman to just blow it up and start over.
Too early to blow it up right now. But, everyday this team gets deeper into the abyss, it makes it a much easier call to do. From ownership right on down.
Hawkins last night? The first pitch should have been it. The second pitch? Too close to the head for my tastes.
But, that’s just me. I could be wrong.
“Hawkins two pitches were “messages” and were in no way even close to Scott’s head.”
You’re blind. Agree or disagree with throwing at the head, but you obviously were watching a different game.
“LaTroy pitching up and in can only help give the Yankees some fire. Why not?”
Can only help? Or it could do nothing. Didn’t exactly bother Luke Scott on his next at bat when he put one in the upper deck did it?
“don’t come into our house after a tough loss , and try to pass off red sox propaganda”
Our house? A website? Haha. That’s cute.
its not covering for jeter if you pull out cano. everyone knows jeter made an awful mistake there… but bad throws happen.
it’s making an example of cano for making an inexcuseable mental error, and setting the example for the rest of the team to get their heads straight.
you can be in a slump and you can make mistakes whiles you are playing hard, and thats ok because thats part of the game. but those mental errors just shouldnt happen, and you have to make that clear.
“You get worse and worse everyday. You’re borderline horrible now.”
Then I assume this will be the last post we see from you on this site, correct?
iv heard 1000 times in the past 3 weeks that there are no moves to be made,no trades possible, no dfa’ and eat salary can be done, but what, exactly is management doing to make things better? im not blaming them totally for the unforseen failings of so many players at once, but SOMETHING needs to be done!
this team is sleepwalking and i cant believe we’re gonna let the whole year go by and make changes next season without at least trying gardner and others out at the mlb level to see what we have, and/or showcase ppl for trades. it obviously cant make things worse and the last time this team looked this dead-in-the-water, calling up cano and wang completly changed things.
Randy 1 - You’re right about Jeter keeping his hands close to his body, but moving his hands forward is his first hitting move with his upper body. Check out other inside/out hitters (e.g. Ichiro, Boggs). Their hands stay back MUCH longer than Jeter, who almost pushes the bat into the hitting zone. His hands are absolutely exposed, and the empirical data proves it - unless you believe that MLB pitchers have deliberately targeted his hands over the last 13 (or so years).
P.S. Off topic, I think that you are an absolutely bhilarious poster (also informative). Dry wit is a priceless commodity (especially in times of need).
Are you guys catching grief at work? I live in Chicago, where the first place Cubs and WS play and first thing this morning, my co-workers were all over me about how a 200mil team could be in last place. I told them that in the end, the Yankees would be there. Not sure I believe that, but it sounded good.
If they pulled Cano and put Gonzalez at second, knowing they’d more than likely be putting in Ensberg later in the game to give ARod a break, then who would cover for Jeter, if he had to be taken out of the game, which ended up happening?
The only question in that scenario is whether or not they would have taken ARod out if the game had not gotten out of hand. And, I don’t even know this, does Ensberg play 2nd or short?
So, while it might have been an opportunity to make an example of Cano, you really have to be cognizant of who else is available to come into the game in any scenario.
murphydog-
I hate to think you’re right here. I’d prefer to be a cock-eyed optimist, but that’s getting more and more difficult. There’s a difference between optimism and hiding one’s head in the sand. It’s not a good situation this season. I still hope it turns around, but it sure ain’t lookin’ so good.
“They probably knew Hawkins would get tossed and wanted to do what they can to make sure he didn’t get a run on his pitching line”
that’s right, i do remember seeing girardi call everyone over and they huddled up and talked it over and decided just how to retaliate.
i’ll say one thing. some people should get into writing best sellers because they sure are good at fiction.
“Hawkins two pitches were “messages” and were in no way even close to Scott’s head.”
A lot of us need to get a grip. He was clearly throwing at his head and there is no other way to see it.
I agree with retaliation, but there is never an excuse for headhunting, never.
String of bad games, tough loss and a lot of you turn in to absolute animals.
It’s not a pretty sight and makes the rest of us look bad.
“Minor leaguers coming up before their time is not going to help.”
Doreen:
From the perspective of proven, reliable talent, I agree. Minor leaguers coming up before the optimal moment do not necessarily add weapons. But I remember Tony Womack being swapped out for Cano. Judicious sprinkling of kids - or a surprise roster move for a non-producing veteran - can help burn off complacency and help players find that extra gear all professionals at this level must have. It also sends a message: the team is moving on without players who don’t earn their jobs with results. Reality instructs when words fail. In the end it’s a business. Time to do some reorganizing in the interests of moving forward. IMO doing nothing is a violation of Cashman’s duty to maximize results.
So Brian (Red Sox fan)
Do you believe that every time Jeter gets hit - it is an accident? So, Pedro ‘accidentally’ hit Soriano and Jeter a few years back.
Nothing like blaming the victim (the guy who got hit). You must be a DA.
p.s. Papelbon is a clown for his celebration last night- if the Red Sox are the best team in baseball - which everyone seems to say nightly- whatever happened to ‘act like you have been there before’.
My post just got eaten up. Here goes again:
Pulling Cano would have had repercussions because I assume they would replace him with Gonzalez. Thinking ahead, you can make the leap that Ensberg would need to be available if you want to take ARod out early (not a given, but a safe assumption). If Jeter goes down, who plays short? Betemit is on the DL. I don’t even know if Ensberg plays 2nd or short. They really don’t have the horses to be able to indulge that urge to make an example.
ham fighter,
They can do several things:
1. Go to Freddie Garcia’s workout next week and see if there is something left in him. If there is, sign him. If there isn’t, pass. At least be there.
2. Get Brett Gardner ready for a callup. Yes, he’s not a magic elixir. But, he gives the Yankees something they don’t have right now. Speed. Try it. If it doesn’t work, you send him back.
Let’s be honest, can he be any worse than some of the guys have been on this team this year?
3. Stop the madness with Joba in the bullpen. Send him to Scranton NOW and get him ready to start. He’s not throwing enough innings (because the team is so bad) out of the bullpen. Get him to Scranton, and get him ready for a Mid-Late June arrival into the rotation. Its time.
4. Monitor what’s out there (trade-wise) which is what Cashman does everyday. The issue is, more teams than ever are in races so, you aren’t going to see a lot of players available until closer to the trade deadline. But, you still monitor it anyway.
That’s really all he can do. He can’t make players play younger. Can’t make guys think better on the field and can’t make the team win.
That’s on the players. If they can’t or won’t do it, there will come a team the team will cut bait with them.
Unfortunately, they can’t do it on May 21.
Daniel Cabrera threw at Melky’s head long before Latroy was even in the game. Then he hit Jeter.
Just because the guy has a reputation for being wild he does not get a pass. You need to send a message that you will protect your players regardless - force him to take retaliation into account when he decides he’s going inside, especially in a 9-0 game.
My only problem with the Yankees is that their style of “retaliation” seems to be throwing near the head. Its a stupid approach because unless you are really sick you do not really want to hit them. They’d be much better off just hitting them in their midsection and getting it over with. As Jeter said…. “near doesn’t hurt”. It was probably as much a message to his own pitchers as to anyone.
“that’s right, i do remember seeing girardi call everyone over and they huddled up and talked it over and decided just how to retaliate.
i’ll say one thing. some people should get into writing best sellers because they sure are good at fiction.”
It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure it out. Hawkins knows when it is appropiate to throw at someone as does Girardi. No need for a long discussion. How often have we seen Girardi try to protect a pitchers stat line this season.
we need to win some games
murphydog -
I guess the only player that could conceivably add anything right now is Brett Gardner.
The other thing to do is give Duncan a lot more playing time, even though he hasn’t really shown anything this season. The problem is, every couple of nights or so Giambi will make a couple of plays or get a couple of hits that, as I’ve said before, add to his lifespan. He does just enough to make you think he could be turning the corner. Last night he hits 2 balls to the left of 2nd base. What are the odds??
Other than those two moves, I don’t know what else. Do you give the regular lineup a week with ARod in it to see what happens? That seems fair, yet every week that goes by unsuccessfully is a wasted week.
sj44
i agree 100%
they should do no’s 2&3 today!
The news is a lot better on the minor league front.
Mark Melancon pitched 3 shutout innings (with 4 K’s) to get the win, 3-0 in 10 innings for Trenton last night.
Alfredo Aceves, who was making his first AA start, pitched 7 shutout innings, striking out 7.
Zach McAllister (Charleston) moved to 6-2 (2.06 ERA) with a win last night. He went 8, striking out 6, walking none, and only giving up one run.
At least the night wasn’t a total washout for the Yankees.
Laura - just start a chant… “nineteen ohhhhh eight”
Doreen, i understand the point about not having the horses to pull Cano (given Jeter’s eventual exit), but i think at this point, with the way this team is playing, setting an example trumps the soldiers you have to go into battle with.
but yeah, i definately see what you’re saying… i’m just in the mindset that desperate times call for drastic measures, and it’s going to take something liek that to shock this team a little bit.
and yes, Gardner is step 1, and Joba is step 2.
Last year the Yankees were off to a similar start. Most of the players are the same as they had last year. One major change took place. They hired a new manager.
Say what you want about the players, its true there is a falling apart there, but leadership changes that. We haven’t seen that coming from the Girardi clubhouse.
If the players attitudes are bad - which seems to be the case, and these are the same players as last year, then you have to look for what could be the underlying cause. Coaching changes and new manager are the biggest difference this year.
Leaders lead. The chief leader of the team is the manager.
I fear the Yankees made a huge error in hiring Girardi. I hope things change for the better, but its not looking like the wisest move the Yankees made was letting Torre go. Despite the foolish talk from NoMaas to the contrary.
How about this ? Eye for an eye. You throw at our guy, we throw at yours, period ! And if you get away with throwing at our game towards the end of a game and we don’t get a chance to get you back, the very next game we can throw at YOUR GUY first, we take it. The Yankees are going to get a lot of guys hurt, if they do NOTHING about getting plunked. It is time to step up and back up our players…NOW and forever more !
Doreen,
At this point, what’s fair may not be what’s best for the team.
If it was me, I put Gardner in left, Damon to the bench, and I platoon Giambi and Duncan at first.
I look at it in very simple terms. Who has a role in the future of the team? Those are the guys that play.
The one’s who don’t? Its first to the bench and then to another destination.
I send Joba to Scranton, call up Scott Patterson to take his spot on the roster, and get him ready for the rotation.
My goal (if I’m the GM) would be to have Hughes and Chamberlain in the rotation by the 4th of July.
By that time, one of Melancon, Cox or Robertson would be ready to take a spot in the bullpen.
If Gardner can stick, Damon becomes expendable. If he can’t, he should at least be on the roster as a 4th OF. He has more value to the Yankees right now than just about anybody else on the bench because of his wheels.
That would be a start.
One thing about teams. How they play dictates a lot of what you do as a GM. If they stink it up on a nightly basis, making changes becomes easy.
Its when they are good one day and bad the next, like the Mets for example, that makes decisionmaking much harder.
With the way the Yankees are playing making changes shouldn’t be met with much dispute.
Can we just give Damon, Giambi and Igawa away? How about letting Damon and Giambi spend the rest of their retirement tour in the bay area on the Giants? Igawa might like that too… closer to home. At least we’ll open 3 spots on the 40 and 25 man rosters… there’s some value in that. Bring up Gardner, McCutcheon and the underachieving Eric Duncan… let’s see what they’ve got. Just do something… staying the course is not working. This team is not going to play .650 ball the rest of the way so lets experiment and see what we are going to need next year.
i have no doubt in Girardi’s ability to manage. ive already seen him do much more with much less than what this team has right now.
this is on the players.
“Jeter has a unique hitting style wherein he pushes his hands into the strike zone ”
brian(red sox fan)-
“pushes his hands into the strike zone” is the flaw in your argument.
the plate is 17 inches wide. if a ball is on the outside corner, jeter’s hands are on the end of a 34 inch bat. you do the math on where his hands are.
i’ll give you a clue. they aren’t in the strike zone.
on an inside pitch, his hands are even further inside whether he decides to inside out the pitch with his hands brushing against his body or pulling the ball when his hands still having to stay inside the ball.
when pulling a ball on the black on the inside pitch jeter’s hands have to be inside the ball and therefore not in the strike zone.
…so where is the best place to get a cappuccino in florence?
Please stop with this (remember last year) they should not be in this hole in the first place. The “big comeback” in any sport at any level is the exception not the norm. Cashman Hank Girardi whoever overestimated their team and their potential while underestimating the opposition. The starting pitching even if Hughes is healthy is mediocre at best by league standards. What now? They need to make some moves to try to stay in this. There is nobody in the minors ready to come up and make a substantial contribution. While I still cannot believe they passed up on Santana theres nothing you can do about that now. I would bring Posada back as a DH. I would leave Matsui in left use Damon as a late inning replacement for Matsui and also let Damon sub once a week for Matsui. I would leadoff Jeter, bat Melky 2nd, bat AROD 3rd, bat Matsui 4th, Posada 5th, Abreu 6th, Platoon Duncan/Giambi at first and bat 7th, Cano 8th and leave him alone, and Molina 9th. I would also let the guys who can steal a base (Jeter, Melky, Arod, Abreu, Cano) go more often. Lastly, I would be shopping for a starter.
TurnTwo, being manager is much more than just making moves during a game.
“Laura - just start a chant… “nineteen ohhhhh eight””
Actually, I told him since his team hasn’t won squat in 100 yrs, he was in no position to talk trash to me. Cub fans are actually the most tortured fans in the world. They have been disappointed so many times that even now when their team has a decent shot of making it to the playoffs, they are convinced that it will eventually collapse. The NL is so weak that the Cubs should at least make it to the first round if not making it to the WS, where they will be dismantled by the AL team.
There is only so much a manager can do.
Most everybody will agree that Jim Leyland is a good manager, correct?
How do you explain the Tigers?
Sometimes, the mix of players is such that no matter what a manager does, there is nothing they can do about it.
Sometimes, you just have a bad team. Regardless of the names on the roster.
Last year, at least they hit. They haven’t hit all year this season.
Why? Age? No PED’s? No Greenies?
My theory. The game is changing because of the tougher drug policies. Its getting back to being more pitching, defense, speed, contact hitting.
In other words, ALL of the things that made the 1996-2001 Yankees a Dynasty.
Look at the roster objectively. Do you see those type of players on this roster? No.
So, how is that Girardi’s fault? It isn’t.
Its a bad mix of older, unathletic players, weak pitching (especially among most of the starters) and younger players, like Cano, who are still searching for that game in game out consistency.
Its why the team has invested so heavily in its minor league system the last 3 years.
Unfortunately, due to the lateness of their investment, they are limited in finding help from within to bail the parent club out completely this year. That’s going to be up to the guys on the roster to do most of the heavy lifting in that area.
agreed, but at some point, the players have to want to make a change.
Girardi can flip tables, and bench players, and have meetings, but if the players arent open to changing their attitude, and focus on fundamentals and not making mental errors, its on them.
if molina could hit at all, it would definitly be time to start playing jorge at first. this could help protect his shoulder. but unfortunatly, molina cant hit at all and getting his bat out of the daily lineup is more important than getting giambi’s out.
“take a step back and forget the NY on the chest, and just look at the numbers. if this were any other team than the Yankees, they’d be crucified. ”
Have you not read any newspapers or yankee message boards in the past 3 weeks? Even Jesus was less crucified.
I am hearing it from the Met fans in the office. I guess I should say 1986 to them?
oh, i know ray. that post is just for those who still refuse to believe this season is a wash.
Jennifer, the Mets lost twice yesterday. They have plenty of their own problems and aren’t much better off. Their fans should worry about the Braves instead of still looking back on their two game “World Series victory” in May.
the problem is NOT retaliating when Jeter or ARod gets plunked…
the problem is that none of our pitchers know how to hit an opposing batter flush on the rear-end, or between the numbers.
i have no problem with LaToya’s intent last night…he just lacked proper execution.
jennifer, tell your mets fans friends thanks for me, in my spare (non yankee) time, im a phils fan and not only did they open the door for us to get into the playoffs, the also erased us from being the team that collapsed worse than any other. so say thanks from philly for me!
Mental errors are an interesting subject. The more you think about not making them, the more they probably get made.
Just an everyday example of that: how many of you have gotten up in the middle of the night for whatever reason, or early in the morning for that matter, and TRIED to be quiet so as not to wake your housemate(s)? If any of you are like me, the more I TRY to be quiet, the more likely I am to, say, drop a pot.
Seriously, perhaps they need to stop thinking and start just playing. Just letting the instincts take over. Going out there with a “nothing to lose” attitude. Because, really, at this point, can they get much worse?
Earlier I was encouraged that they were at least staying out of any long losing streak. However, I’d say 5 games qualifies as a long losing streak, especially with Boston finding themselves again and winning a few in a row. So, first order of business is to stop the losing streak and go on from there.
SJ44 -
I do agree that what’s fair isn’t necessarily what’s best, and they really don’t have the luxury to be fair anymore. And, you know what else? I’m not usually cynical and I don’t usually concern myself with the paycheck end of baseball (because I can’t control it), but these guys are getting paid whether they play or not, and whether they play well or not.
yeah, our guys need an instructor to teach them how to hit a guy in the butt and avoid the head.
Are we going to hear Gossage come out and say that isn’t the proper way to play baseball? (re hawk)
I wonder if anyone will call him up and ask him what he thought of K-rods or Paplebons antics last night? OR the Astros pitcher who did the wild thing on the mound hte other night.
Doreen,
No question about it. Last night, the Jeter error changed the whole game. Perhaps Moose should have “fought through it”. Or, Cano, “should have been on the bag”. But, that wasn’t the case.
Instead, a 1-0 deficit after a half inning turned into a 7-0 deficit and the ballgame.
You can’t underscore how bad a mistake that was and how it affected the game.
The troubling part is that losing teams find new ways to lose every night. That’s what the Yankees are doing right now and that’s tough to watch.
Conversely, winning teams find ways to win any kind of game.
Whether its talent, mojo or a combination of the two, even a blind man can see this Yankee team (at least so far this season) lacks it.
Finding the elusive “it” is the tough part.
“Nothing like blaming the victim (the guy who got hit). You must be a DA.”
chazzh-
he’s not a DA . he’s being a smart A.
he’s just full of red sox glee over the present state of affairs and what could be more fun then coming on this site and sticking in the needle with jeter who still represents everything red sox fans hate about the yankees.
I want to feel like tonights game will be a rebound game…
But I don’t know if I believe that’ll happen!
DMan, it will happen because our Ace is on the mound!!
Again what about the papelbon celebration.. Oh I forgot it is OK because of the circumstances of the game, what a JOKE.. the guy acted like it was game 6 of the world series.. I love the yankee haters rational on these matters it is humorous..
the pitch that hit Jeter was minimum inside 6 or more inches of the plate and high.
SJ I think your reaction about the game changing overnight to the athletic etc. game may be overstated..again damon had 20+ steals last yr. and I think abreu had near that also.. these guys are not carlos lee and jermaine dye.. they have some speed….
I think the players have just not produced and I especiall am pissed at Cano his AB last night with 2 on and 1 out was terrible… swinging at a 2 - 2 pitch at his ankles, will he ever learn?????
“don’t come into our house after a tough loss , and try to pass off red sox propaganda as fact.a and as far as knowledge about hitting mechanics, you do better when you stick to giving advice about restaurants in italy.”
that post is worthy of a virtual slap in the mug…. SLAP.
Ohlendorf sucks get over him
“these guys are not carlos lee”
Sadly, you are correct. Lee may be a fatass, but he’s found a way to average 30 homers, 115 rbi and 15 steals over the past 5 seasons.
I usually catch the game on GameDay or read about it later. Most iof the time I don’t actually see the game on TV. Last night I had tickets but didn’t go because of the weather. Instead, we watched from a warm, dry bar. Hideous game. Absolutely hideous. I’m glad I didn’t read posts all night!
A few observations:
I was surprised to see Giambi go the other way. Of course, who wasn’t. Still looks like a .200 hitter to me though.
Matsui can run again, should be in LF. Damon is a waste, he isn’t hitting and he looked like a buffoon on that E. Remember, Matsui’s arm isn’t terrible like Damon’s too. Matsui may not be the premier LF in the game but if our only options are Damon & Matsui, Matsui’s the better of the two right now.
Edwar can mix in more pitches so hitters don’t wait on the change, he could actually do well in the majors. Let’s see him keep doing it consistently. He still needs to be fed more too.
Cano looks as flat as a week old warm beer.
A-Rod not limping was a good sign. Seeing his home run trot again was a good sign too.
Although Jeter does lean in and probably expects to get some bruises at the plate, it’s still good to see that one of the Yanks pitchers was able to let the other team know not to get too comfortable with him getting hit. Fortunately nobody else got hurt and it didn’t get out of hand.
Last night’s pitcher was the old washed up Moose from last summer. We can’t expect him to be on every time, even alarmists. He has done reasonably well over the last several games by making the adjustments to his pitching style. Last night was not one of those games. I actually think he will have a winning record by the time the season’s over and a better ERA than last year. I didn’t think this over the winter. He won’t be 17-6 with an ERA in the 3’s, but he’ll have a better year than last year.
fredo i was just talking about Lee on the speed and D front, he is a great hitter and Dye is a good hitter…
To me it appears that Ohlendorf usually gets tired after a inning or 2…Ohlendorf has not performed that good but he is still young and new to the najors so he has a chance, he is not like Kyle who is old and we know just sucks…..
“Again what about the papelbon celebration”
Stuart, the vast majority of people who took issue w/ Joba’s antics were YANKEE fans who felt it was not the “Yankee Way” to carry on like that.
The Yankees could not have looked more classless then when Hawkins threw at Scott’s HEAD and missed (and good thing he did miss)
You sound like Micheal Kay blaming Jeter for getting hit, total bull. Jeter might dive out to caover the outside corner, like 400 other players, but when he gets hit he’s always out of the strike zone, pulling back while the ball is bearing up & in on him. Not one pitcher that hits Jeter gets tossed or suspended, but half a dozen Yankee pitchers get tossed & suspended for not hitting players. Please explain the logic.
“Joe
May 21st, 2008 at 5:11 am
When is Scott Patterson getting called up? He hasn’t given up run in his last 10 outings or so covering about a month. Working on season number THREE of dominating AA or AAA.”
since when is the bullpen the problem ?
Man. All right, here’s hoping the Yankees go on this massive winning streek while I’m away.
Hopefully when I come back we’ll actually be playing with some energy.
Wishful thinking, I know.
Still. Catch you all in a week.
Things are at a boiling point now with the Yankees and with us Yankee fans…
Logic says things have to change eventually. There has to be some sort of turn-around soon.
right?
Randy 1 - I earlier corrected “into the strike zone” to “into the hitting zone.” If you were to use a golf swing as an analogy, what Jeter does is called “casting,” which basically refers to a premature move with the hands. AS I’ve said, even the iconic inside/out hitters keep the hands back, and pull the bat through the hitting zone.
Which is why I think Jeter’s hands are exposed as the pitch is on the way (even if he’s not swinging). Again, most hitters have their hands behind their torso while the pitch is on the way. Jeter is different. Effective as hell, but different.
Re; Cappucino in Florence. My favorite area is the Piazza (can’t recall the name) outside the Uffizi Museum. It includes an exact replica of the statue of David (which is kept inside). Lots of opportunities for cappucino, or, (my favorie (gelato).
“Ohlendorf sucks get over him”
stop for a second when did you say this, after he pitched near 4 innings of relief or after Damon missed the pop up in the 2nd inning for the 3rd out, which after Damon missed that pop up that’s the only inning Baltimore stepped up in, the HR to Millar was in his 4 inning of relief, Damon catches a can of corn pop up he only gives up 1 R in relief.
“Edwar can mix in more pitches so hitters don’t wait on the change, he could actually do well in the majors. Let’s see him keep doing it consistently. He still needs to be fed more too.”
you can thank Pedro Martinez and David Ortiz for that, yeh I know weird
“that post is worthy of a virtual slap in the mug…. SLAP.”
click on my user name . with a few clicks of the mouse you could find out how to deliver your message in person .
“since when is the bullpen the problem ?”
Even with bullpen depth, getting barely over 5 IP from the #2 thru #5 spots in the rotation will cause problems in a pen. Some of that could be manifesting itself in the way of poor recent outings from some of the guys in pen who had been perfromig pretty well.
SJ, why do you continually find excuses for Girardi?
Yes, there are problems with this team, however, when you have a team that has been together for a while and shown that they can perform well together, a few months break isn’t going to have all of that disappear.
I understand you are in man-love with Girardi because of some things you have done with him. That is fine.
I have worked in business for a long time. I’ve seen new management people come and go throughout all these years. I’ve seen people who look to have promise, credentials, smarts - whatever it takes to do the job - on paper, fail miserably because they just don’t have the experience or unidentified skill to do the job.
I view Girardi in similar mode. He had been a manager for one year prior to this. While there might be circumstances beyond his control, he did get fired from doing that job after that one single year.
Some people just can’t do the job they are hired to do. Just like so many teams don’t perform the way they would look to do ON PAPER.
There is a deeper seated problem with this team. While some problems were showing last year, a lot is explainable. This year its harder to justify.
There are people who can talk a good game, but when it comes to actually doing it they fail. So far, despite the platitudes of the “manager doesn’t go out and play and the game”, the manager can’t get a free pass either. When a whole team is in a funk, guess what, it is the job of the manager to do something. It is the job of the manager to get the most out of his players.
Leland is a good manager, but just like Girardi, they aren’t getting the job done. Be it the style they are bringing to that particular clubhouse, or the “chemistry” they have created, they aren’t getting it done. What is easier to do? Blow up a whole team of players who have shown for years they can perform at a high level, or look at where the change started? If it comes down to a whole team or a manager, just who will go?
Girardi just doesn’t seem up to the task.
“Even with bullpen depth, getting barely over 5 IP from the #2 thru #5 spots in the rotation will cause problems in a pen. Some of that could be manifesting itself in the way of poor recent outings from some of the guys in pen who had been perfromig pretty well.”
oh absolutely, and IDK how long it will take but Joba Chamberlain soon will have to be converted because the 8th and 9th will soon become useless. Dan McCutchen was promoted to AAA IDK if it’s in the BP role or SP but he and Robertson & JB Cox will have a big say what happens in the next few weeks.
I don’t think the Yankees should be retaliating until they are on the plus side.
All these things just make them fall deeper and deeper into the standings.
Luckily, I was out and missed most of the game.
At least A-Rod hit a HR, it would’ve have been worse if he went hitless.
How can everyone be in a hitting slump at once? I think they should get some independent hitting advice to supplement Kevin Long. I don’t recall such extreme slumps across the board when Mattingly was hitting coach.
And yeah, I get it, the hitting coach can’t bat for a player, yadayada…but maybe a fresh set of eyes can help.
I still don’t think it’s time to panic. I think we’ll see the Yankees string out 5 or 6 wins in a row, and right the ship.
Maybe not this week, but soon.
SJ,
If McAllister keeps it up, would you call him the best pitching prospect the Yanks have?
Keep and eye on this:
I’ve worked in sports for a long time. I trust my eyes when I see what guys can or can do.
What do you think the role of a manager is? Its not football, they aren’t “inspiring” anybody.
This is a veteran team. Filled mainly with guys who are on the downside of their careers.
What can Joe Girardi do to make Jason Giambi, Johnny Damon and Mike Mussina (just 3 examples. There are more) turn back the clock? Nothing.
I don’t have “man love” for Girardi. I, unlike you, simply understand that in baseball the manager isn’t a miracle worker.
He can’t take a bench of unproductive players and make them productive. He can’t take old guys and make them young.
Its not comparable to your business example because in business, you can fire unproductive workers.
Sports business is completely different from “real world” business. There is nothing comparable between the two because you aren’t dealing in guaranteed contracts, injuries, etc, in business. Its much more cut and dry.
You can’t do that in baseball. Unless of course, you want the Yankees to eat 100 million dollars in salary. Which ain’t happening.
He got fired after being named Manager of the Year by an owner who is a moron. The guy was Manager of the Year with a team that had a 12 million dollar payroll. Is that not a helluva achievement?
Girardi also isn’t going anywhere. Read Hank’s comments about Girardi in yesterday’s NY Times.
They all realize he’s been dealt a bad team. This ain’t on him.
So you let other teams use your players for target practice becuase you have a losing record?
The game was well out of control when Hawk threw that pitch. It wasn’t like it was a 2-1 game and we lost becuase of it.
Give me a break.
“When a whole team is in a funk, guess what, it is the job of the manager to do something. It is the job of the manager to get the most out of his players.”
honestly, i think this is the last thing you can criticize Girardi on. he ran a tough camp in the spring to make sure players came into the season in shape.
when players went down with injuries, he has changed lineups, rotated players, given days off.
To get the offense jumpstarted, he’s moved runners to try hit and runs, implemented sac bunts to try and generate runs.
he’s had team meetings, and addressed the players about their attitude, and their play and what is expected from him.
so what do you suggest he does differently?
like it was illustrated before, its not like this team was running on all cylinders last season start to finish and then girardi came in and the team folded up.
this team had the same issues last season, but Abreu, Cano, and Matsui all decided they wanted to hit again, and the pitching finally was able to hold other teams to under 5 runs a game and hold leads at the end of games, and it made Torre look like a genious.
Girardi has done what he can so far, but this is on the players to decide how much they are going to push themselves and pick their heads up and perform to the back of their baseball card slike it says they should.
I don’t think McAllister is their best pitching prospect. But, he’s very, very good and getting better.
McAllister, Betances and Heredia (when he gets off the DL) are 3 guys in Charleston worth keeping an eye on this season.
Their futures are very bright.
“SJ,
If McAllister keeps it up, would you call him the best pitching prospect the Yanks have?”
before SJ answers this I’ll say I’ve said this since last month his GO/AO is ridiculous, But Christian Garcia when on his game and 100 % healthy hands down will overtake anyone in this system other than Andrew Brackman or if Dellin Betances gets his control in the future.
If I need a smile during my work day, I just think of the Yankees. It’s so funny how pathetic they have become. Reminds me of bit of the Detroit Tigers of 2003. You know, the team that lost 119 games.
SJ44,
What do you think of Alfred Aceves? He seems to be movingg through the levels pretty quickly.
“Girardi just doesn’t seem up to the task.”
He’s got a team that’s aging on the field and being rebuilt on the mound. He’s following a legend. It’s not an easy gig.
He may not be up to the task. His credentials are far exceeded by the fanfare and expectations under which he came into the job with. However, he should get the chance to prove himself over time. Judging him on 2 months, with what can kindly be described as a flawed roster, simply isn’t fair.
Wow a Ray’s troll. A team that has never finished above 4th place is making fun of the Yankees. Did your team pick up thier 4th place award yet?
SJ, then you need glasses, because you can’t see well.
I am not looking for a miracle turn around, but the team has been playing like crap from day one. No one expects to reverse the age of the players.
Managers can negatively impact a whole team. Girardi is coming off as a person who constantly looks to do something, such as changing the lineup every game. Doing that to a veteran team can have the results we are looking at.
Like it or not, just because you say that a team isn’t going to perform like a business, doesn’t make it so. Baseball is a business. A poor manager in baseball can harm a team far more and faster than a good manager will make a positive impact.
Its not like this is only a few games into the season now. The season is a quarter of the way through. The Yankees look like crap all around. Girardi doesn’t have a track record to look at, and he seems to think he can treat these veteran players as if they are children. Think about how you would react if someone came into your place of business and dictated what you could eat as a snack.
Girardi has not shown he is using good judgement in a lot of areas. He has shown himself to be a liar.
SJ, you might know a good deal about baseball, but you don’t know everything. You also have a blind spot on regarding Girardi. You have gone out of your way in defending him and ignore the things that he is doing that could lead to a meltdown in the attitude of the VETERAN players.
Girardi’s job is dealing with the people and personalities of this team. That is a larger part of his job than is deciding when to change the pitcher or (a rare occurance) change the lineup. Girardi got off