Game 50: Mariners at Yankees
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 25, 2008 
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YANKEES
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi DH
Duncan 1B
Cano 2B
Molina C
Cabrera CF
Wang RHP
Chien Ming Wang (6-2, 3.51) vs. the Seattle hitters.
Jarrod Wasbhurn (2-6, 6.99) vs. the New York hitters.
Notes: Thanks to Brian Heyman for calling in the lineup. … The Yankees have won four straight and are 5-0 against the Mariners this season, outscoring them 44-12. … Seattle has lost five in a row. … Derek Jeter is hitless in his last 18 at-bats. Fourteen of those at-bats have come since he was hit on the left hand by a pitch on Tuesday. … Wang is winless in his last three starts. … Wilson Betemit is playing in what should be his final rehab game for Scranton today. … Yes, Hideki Matsui has been smoking the ball. But he is 2 for 14 against Washburn. Duncan is 0 for 2. I would guess that’s why Godzilla is out.
I’m off today before the road trip. Enjoy the game.
The Yankees are going for the sweep today and the way Seattle has been playing and the Yankees have been hitting, they should get it.
I hope duncan has another key hit today –
Go wang!!!!!!
If we sweep today – this is WHAT we need to get it going this season! We are on our way to the playoffs! (Yes, I know, It’s early but being positive is what will keep it going!)
I”m going to the game today
Looks like a beautiful day finallY!!
Why is Matsui not playing? makes no sense at all
yankee lover,
Pete said Matsui is 2 of 14 against Washburn
Jennifer – have fun at the game. It is a beautiful day for it.
Have fun at the game Jennifer.
im suprised to see matsui out, too. i realize he’s 2-14, but he’s a streaky hitter who’s been hitting really well of late. but when everybody’s hitting (wow, what a concept) i guess somebody hot has to sit.
i do give a rat’s ass if matsui is 2 for 14 against washburn. shelley is not good at baseball, hence he should ride the pine–it’s that simple.
I’ll be out at a friends b’day party so I’m gonna miss the game – GO YANKS!!
By sitting a guy who is red hot I think you risk him going cold. Joe, stop micro managing. If it aint broke dont fix it
As hot as Matsui is right now, his record against Washburn is irrelevant. He’s so hot, he’ll probably get a hit off anybody.
If Girardi is sitting him to get him some rest (he does have bad knees), that might be understandable. But if he’s sitting him based on his record against Washburn, that’s a bad move IMO.
floating head:
dont you have to go to hate-church this morning?
Nice to see Big G gracing the lineup in the DH role. While his ability to play in the field has (finally) started to help the offensive production he is a butcher in the field.
Of course Shelley D is not going to make anyone forget Donny Baseball at 1B either!!!
Let’s get to .500 today and then start doing some damage in the standings.
27/08
Good article in the NYTimes today called “Boo! Boo! Boo! for the Home Team”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05.....ref=slogin
“Such disloyalty is hard to witness, particularly as youngsters learn from Dad and Mom to condemn one of their own.”
i never even look at the standings when we’re under .500 BUT i cant help but notice that the sox bats have been silenced for 2 days now. they’ve been hitting above thier heads all year and we’ve been way under where we should be. maybe the worm has turned.
In re: Giambi, he’s now at .900 in OPS, and has an OPS+ of 146.
Giambi is not Pujols, both offensively or defensively, but he is decidedly an asset to the Yankees.
Girardi should be putting the BEST available lineup out there. They need to get to .500 first though, but that will come TODAY!
The team is gaining confidence, and that is BAD NEWS for the rest of the league. The tide is changing with the resurgence of Cano and Giambi. Once this lineup starts totally clicking, you can see many 8-10 run games for them often. And, Posada isn’t even playing yet. They may not score the 1000 runs they were predicted but they certainly will score 900.
I figure he’s really wanting to get Matsui some rest so that they don’t over-do it on his bad knees and get Shelly some more consistent at bats, and the record against Washburn is just an excuse to do that
Yankees are only 4 four games behind in the loss column to Boston, the division leader, and played three less games. If is a far cry from how people were panicking a week earlier. It is a long season and Yanks will win the division. The offese woke up and pitching is settling down slowly.
After all-start break, I see a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Hughes/Rasner and Mussina. Rasner will be the long man if Hughes is in the rotation. Cox will be in the bullpen with Meloncon joining in August.
Let us enjoy the ride.
Girardi has been rotatiing he veterans and giving htem rest. Today is Matsui’s turn. Not much to read into it.
“Girardi should be putting the BEST available lineup out there.”
“the best lineup” for a given game is not always the lineup that has the best season numbers.
Duncan’s here to hit lefties. They need to see if he can do it. If they keep him on the bench until someone’s hurt, he’ll never do anything. He might not do anything anyway, but they need to find out, or just cut him.
“Mariners president says jobs of McLaren, Bavasi are safe”
They’ll both be fired within a week.
there is a decent chance that today’s game may be mcclaren’s last as seattle manager:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
“Sometimes I wonder…” what Shelley would do if he played fulltime. Would he he hit a lot of homeruns? Learn some plate discipline (Cabrera & Cano did)? Die from excitement?
Madden’s column today, comparing the Yankees and Red Sux drafts the last five years, is a must-read.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....draft.html
Good point ham figther. How long can they go getting every ball to drop in and every pitch to be flailed at.
Oh wow, Madden called Ellsbury a 5 tool player.SMH
Thanks, Kill-Schill, for the read.
They’re not “killing” us, and it’ll take a couple years to see the impact of the guys drafted in the last couple of years when real efforts to change were made.
The only new thing I learned is that they lost 2 picks for Keith Foulke? That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard in a long time.
“Madden’s column today, comparing the Yankees and Red Sux drafts the last five years, is a must-read.”
I think he’s right about the stuff from before Oppenheimer was running the scouting, but wrong about the stuff after. And the fact that he compares Betances and McCutchen to guys like Tyler Clippard and Matt DeSalvo shows that he really has no idea what’s going on with the Yankee system today.
And the fact that he contrasts Hughes’ struggle earlier this year (at 21 and injured) with pitchers several years his senior also underscores that he’s not really taking a very sophisticated look at what’s going on.
But CJ Henry was a terrible pick, it’s true.
Good morning all, and I hope everyone is enjoying their Memorial Day Weekend.
Randy l & Murphydog -
Great posts in previous thread.
My two cents: I’m not a black person, so I can never, ever know how that feels. There was a great article this morning in the New York Times sports section by William C. Rhoden, in which he talks about racism as “a constant irritating hum in contemporary life.” Much of the time it’s not something that people want to spend a lot of energy on, but it’s there.
I would like to see Willie save his job, but a lot will depend on how the team plays behind him. And that ship may have already sailed.
I’m hoping our Yankees can pull off a sweep behind Wang today. I’m sure the Mariners are going to be out there trying just as hard not to be swept. So, if nothing else, I’m hoping for a good game.
Enjoy everyone!
I can FEEL it, we are on a 20 game winning streak, and at the end,first place book it!!
And another thing. He said something about Masterson being masterful? So was IPK last year. It’ll take time to see who survives. Joba and Hughes may trump all their pitching. I bet Boston would swap for some of our “rubbish” pitching. Lester still throws too many pitches.
Kill-Schill
That was a terrible read. This guy does not understand that we can throw guys out there like Bucholz and Masterson and the hitters will flail at our pitches low and in the dirt the way they never would against Kennedy or Hughes. Also, Jacoby and PEDroia can throw their bats out there at any moment and luck into a hit while Giambi laces balls right into the shift for outs. Bill Madden does not understand the effort shown against the Red Sox (nil) as opposed to the supreme effort given against the Yankees…not to mention the bad luck the Yankees get.
ThatYankees on Deck show is always good for some tidbit of knowledge. I never knew that he weather vain bat was actually a Lou Gehrig bat. I assume that that will be taken over to the new stadium??
Posada forgot that he knows how to count to 5 in English.
That article is terrible.
He’s all about Dan Bard, who’s at High A, and says nothing about Melancon who’s performing better at a higher level. He also thinks Bard is going to see the majors this year. Very unlikely. He’s in love with MAsterson who has made TWO starts. Kennedy had an ERA under 2 in his first 3 starts.
CJ Henry was terrible, true, but Cashman turned him into Abreu who has been quite valuable to the Yankees.
I see why you were destroyed on nomaas, Mr. killschill
I feel a classic Wang start today!
Conveniently for Madden not to mention the Red Sox signed Lugo while giving up a draft pick which could have turned into Rick Porcello.
It seems like every time we go up against a pitcher with a gaudy high ERA, we make them look like the second coming of Cy Young, so I hope Wang’s on his game today and our bats keep producing.
With A-Rod’s presence, the Yankees will continue the march back to generating 5 runs a game! (at 4.41 now)
doesnt washburn have a history of killing the yanks? or am i mistaken?
Quietly as always, Matsui is in the middle of things going right for the Yankees.
The consummate professional he is.
Yes, he’s not a Gold Glove leftfielder but all things considered he’s a good Yankee.
He does have a 2.52 era over 11 career starts (75 IP) against the Yankees.
But nevertheless, we have A-Rod mojo permeating through the lineup now!
“Yes, he’s not a Gold Glove leftfielder but all things considered he’s a good Yankee.”
I agree. I have always been a huge Matsui fan. From his consistent RBI production to his apologizing for his injury, he handles himself like a gentlemen (huge porn collection notwithstanding) and a true professional baseball player. I hope that the Yankees hold on to him for awhile.
Glenn,
You are absolutely right. It’s amazing how consistent Matsui is.
Blargh,
Should we have a Matsui Haiku challenge on the blog?
Ellsbury’s not a 5 tool player. Someone needs to tell Madden that. Also, he needs to understand where LEster and Buckholz are in terms of development, versus Hughes & Kennedy. Hughes is younger than both Sox pitchers, and Kennedy only had 1 season of minor league ball. The Sox pitchers have had mutliple years in the minors.
edit:
It’s amazing how consistent Matsui has been over the years.
one plus for the red sox draft skills. but not for their trading skills is david murphy’s success so far down in texas.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....xt=batting
i was checking out texas’ stats to see why they were doing so well and came across his stats.
mel: In English or Japanese?
No mention of Alan Horne taken in the 2005 draft. EL 2007 pitcher of the year.
Silly, ãˆã„ã”　ã§. Otherwise as the wise one (Ichiro) said, “Who would understand it?â€ã€€
“No mention of Alan Horne taken in the 2005 draft. EL 2007 pitcher of the year.”
Yeah, but he missed a WHOLE MONTH this year. Clearly it’s too much to expect for Madden to know his name. Also, he’s clearly a bust because he’s not in the majors yet.
Rhapsody in Blue,
I don’t know much about Madden.
1. Is he a Yankee hater?
2. Is he trying to drum up controversy?
3. Does he know the farm system well? Pete’s said before that his job is to cover the majors, so how much do the columnists know?
I’ll give him a pass, but only because it’ll take another few years to assess the balance sheet in any fair way.
No mention Alan Horne was picked as 2007 EL pitcher of the year over Buchholz and Masterson. The winner of the award picked by sports writers and coaches of the league teams.
Small omission I guess. Like Melancon ignored.
reminder: Game on TBS.
Ooooh. They just had a really nice intro video.
Caray and Darling. Ugh. Gross.
So, they were talking about Marcum, who’s having a great year. I decided to look up McGowan, one of the Jays other young starters. Was looking at his stats on the baseball cube, and noticed one team he played for that was listed as “Med Hat”.
???
So, I looked it up, and it’s the “Medicine Hat Blue Jays”, in Medicine Hat, Alberta.
Like…I know there’s some bizarre town names out there (Intercourse, PA…Hazardville, CT…Peculiar, MO — where the odds are on your side!), but…I don’t even know what what a “medicine hat” IS, much less why you’d name your town after it.
Game’s on YES as well, right?
Whenever games are nationally broadcast I always just mute it, get my laptop out, listen to music and surf the web. Being in Iowa, all I see are the nationally broadcast games.
I am in NYC an watching on YES. The game is blacked out on TBS here.
At least its not a WGN game… those guys are awful… or it could be berman and joe morgan…
Wow, the old stadium looks great today on TV.
Wang vs. Ichiro. The oppessed vs. the oppressor. Fascinating historical subplots.
Ha, Ichiro’s lost weekend continues.
wouldn’t the oppressor be the chinese?
Ichiro is not having a good series
Wow, the ball just fell straight down into the dirt after contact. Heavy, heavy ball.
Wow. I want to win. But I want it competitive. Is that a sign of what kind of game to expect?
Ya, i didn’t think the Japanese oppressed Taiwan.
Wow – I think Ichiro is on a one-man work stoppage.
His comments yesterday were damning of the team and I think he is 1 for the series.
Nice long throw from Alex.
thank goodness Arod’s cannon is back…
Chris, I was referring to the Japanese occupation of Taiwan from 1895-1945.
But yes, many native Taiwanese considered the mainlanders and the KMT to be oppressors as well.
I’m watching the game on TBSHD, but listening to the YES audio. There’s a delay from YES, but I’d rather listen to Kay babble on than the TBS guys.
Ahhh… sorry, not too up on my Asian occupations… What is the KMT?
come on Wang.
C’mon Darling, it’s OK to throw Beltre and his crappy numbers under the bus…
Good thing Robbie covered 2nd this time
get to work bats
Kuomintang/Guomindang
Chiang Kai-Shek’s party (after Dr. Sun Yat-sen died)
Hmm, will need time to come up with haiku during the game
Leave it to Nick to “represent” for Formosa!
Great stuff.
“Like…I know there’s some bizarre town names out there (Intercourse, PA…Hazardville, CT…Peculiar, MO — where the odds are on your side!), but…I don’t even know what what a “medicine hat†IS, much less why you’d name your town after it.”
i played lot of my youth baseball and high school games at a field called powder hollow in hazardville,ct.
in the hollow there was an ammunitions factory where the gun powder for the civil war was made. great place to play baseball though. it was a natural amphitheatre .
i think the factory ended when it blew up.
-http://home.att.net/~mkm-of-enfct/EHS/EHSpowder.html
and CKS was the guy running China before Mao came up with his red book and started killing folks… pick up new things every day on this internet thing… i guess its here to stay…
What made that Bill Madden article on the yankee’s farm system vs. the sox farm system interesting was the fact that it was even written.
Five years ago could you ever even imagine Madden trying to write about the minor leaguers for his Sunday column?
That column also points out one of the major deficiencies of reporters and columnists covering the yankees and baseball as a whole.
At a time when developing young players is becoming central to success at the major league level, many people in the media know almost nothing about minor league baseball.
Madden was right in a vague way about the problem – the red sox have been better about developing young players than the yanks have. That’s been the key to their success.
The Red Sox have done an outstanding job of drafting and developing players, particularly position players. I give the sox tremendous credit for what they’ve done. Can’t knock them on their efforts.
But Madden does what talking heads often do – he strips the peace of context.
Going back 5 years is interesting because he doesn’t even discuss the either team’s 2003 draft.
He’s not analyzing that draft or the 2004 draft much at all.
So that raises the question why look back 5 years?
I think the answer is clear – Madden wanted to look back far enough to make sure he wouldn’t need to address how the yankees changed their approach to the draft largely in 2005 – less than 3 years ago.
A great example of where Madden is coming from is the 2005 draft.
He kills the yankees for taking CJ Henry in the first round.
But he never bothers to bring up who the yankees drafted that year in the 8th round – Austin Jackson.
Right now perhaps the major problem with the big league roster is its lack of athleticism. In general the only way to get more athletic if you are not picing in the top 5-10 in the draft is to take gamble on a player who is very athletic and very raw. A guy like CJ Henry. Or Austin Jackson.
Henry didn’t work out – but that’s fine. The yankees implemented their draft philosophy that year of going with high ceiling players.
They knew Henry was a high risk, high reward guy.
That’s part of the reason why the yankees drafted Austin Jackson in the 8th round and signed him for $800,000 – then a record for an 8th round pick.
Drafting Jackson was a way of hedging the risk of drafting CJ Henry in round 1. At the time if one of those two became good prospects then that draft becomes a success. That’s happened with Jackson – he’s a terrific prospect. Top 50 in all of baseball.
Henry and Jackson are great examples of what’s involved with the baseball draft. Both players where two sports stars – baseball and basketball. Both had scholarships to division 1 powerhouse baseketball teams (Henry – Kansas – he could have been on their national championship team this year; Jackson – Georgia Tech). At the time Henry was more a baseball player and Jackson more the basketball. Turned out jackson become the better baseball player in the end. No way to predict.
But that’s how the baseball draft works – you get one guy like Jackson and its a successful draft. You add to that draft Alan Horne, JB Cox, Brett Gardner, and Zack Kroenke its a very good draft.
Madden is also completely missing the yankees 2006 draft and its tremendous depth.
3 years ago the yankees had one of the 5 worst farm systems in baseball. Now they have one of the 5 best (and top 2 in terms of pitching).
You don’t do that with bad drafting.
Bill Madden’s column made me hurl today, most of it consisted of players picked by our old VP of scouting Lin Garrett who was absolutely horrible w/ his picks.
Lin Garrett
I live in Hell, Michigan.
credit goes to WasWatching.com seriously Madden should have done his full HW before writing that type of an article
The KMT is short for Kuomintang, it was the Nationalist party, led by Chiang Kai-shek, that ruled China until it lost the civil war to the Communists and in 1949 fled to Taiwan, which had reverted to Chinese control after WWII in 1945.
The KMT was the sole ruling party on Taiwan into the 1980′s, when the political system was liberalized, and an opposition party candidate won the presidency of Taiwan in 2000. Just a month or two ago the KMT won back the presidency.
This photograph, showing the founding father of the Republic of China, Dr. Sun Yat-sen, was said to be a major factor in the KMT’s recent success:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9.....451651434/
Madden’s column was a piece of trash. Trying to compare IPK, Hughes and Joba to two guys who’ve had several more years to develop is insane.
Didn’t they just figure out this spring that Henry had some sort of eye problem that was never diagnosed?
Isn’t Henry still in our farm system?
That pic is awesome!
No one cares. We all know how to google.
Just focus on THIS game.
You know what, it would be impossible to try and analyze 5 years worths of drafts and declare good ones or bad ones. I think the point of Madden’s article was that at the major league level, currently the players taken in the draft are making a bigger impact for Boston. However, one big thing that article misses is the success the Yankees have had in international free agents including Wang, Cano and Cabrera.
As for player the Yankees drafted on the roster I see Jeter and Duncan. Who my missing?
I miss Coney and Leiter today. I want to know what pitches Wang is throwing…are there lots of secondary pitches because his sinker may be high? What’s he throwing?
Anyway. Just sayin’
Yeah, he was resigned this spring I believe
oh and Pettitte, Joba and Kennedy.
That last pitch was nice. May have been a wee bit high, but nice.
Man…where was that pitch? High? Looked like it dropped into the zone to me in that side-angle.
Nick: Hmm, Chen Shui-bian’s reign of ineptitude and corruption == Yankees years of no rings? (barring 2k…)
Question: saw an “injury delay” in gameday – what happened?
This ump is squeezing wang….what the hell was wrong with that 3-2 pitch? too down the middle for him?
What’s Wang’s BBBBAP now?
My point on Henry is that he has another chance. There are worse things in life than being a failed ball player. Just hope he didn’t blow his bonus money.
“Question: saw an “injury delay†in gameday – what happened?”
A grounder hit wang in the left pec area. Got his glove up, but it snuck past.
Rishi,
Wang stopped a ball with his chest.
this strikezone is a weee bit small…
thanks, whozat…
“BBBBAP now?”
Big Booty Base on Balls Average…Potatoes?
Broken Bat By BadAss Pitcher
Joe’s state farm commercial is glorious…
FYI: in the time it took you to post that, I fear you lost your focus on THIS game. Please, bear down. They need you.
I made up that stat when he broke 4 or so in a game earlier this season.
Did the batboy have a bat ready?
Maybe that’s why Madden didn’t bring up the international FA signings because other then Hanley Ramirez who they traded for Beckett, the Red Sox are lacking in that area. And it doesn’t fit what he’s trying to do: Make the Red Sox look like they’re out classing the Yankees with young players.
“Broken Bat By BadAss Pitcher”
OH
That makes more sense than mine.
OK – I have a question –
Of the current Yankee players – who will make the best Yankee manager in 10-15 years (after Girardi retires with 10 rings
)
Blargh: I think you might be on to something. Chen’s bad luck didn’t take hold in 2000 because no one knew quote how bad he would be.
I have a deck of playing cards that I picked up at KMT headquarters in Tainan (where I took that picture), it has Chen as the Joker.
when was the last time we drew 2 straight walks?
it was a BS article brought up only because Lester and Bucholz pitched PG…this wouldn’t have been an article at all if not for that. I hate misguided info.
Jeter would be a good manager, maybe damon, Molina or Posada…
The YES guys are actually funny today
That at bat was a GREAT example of what ARod adds to this team – 6 pitch walk. :thumbsup:
Wow, the Yanks are really getting sick of Bobby Meacham (sp?).
ouch
c’mon robbie…
dammit
that actually was a good swing to put the ball in play up the middle, damn luck
Thought that might be a big inning. Maybe next inning.
Po’s got manager stuff about him.
ugh
That was a very poor at bat by Duncan. Washburn just kept throwing him one pitch on the outside part of the plate after another after another.
And Shelley just kept trying to pull every pitch.
There was no way to pull those pitches in the location Washburn was throwing them. And you could tell Washburn knew shelley would just keep trying to pull the ball.
If Shelley just went the other way on one of those pitches he could have hit the ball very hard to right. With his power and the short porch out there, there’s no reason he couldn’t even hit opposite field home runs.
But this season he keeps trying to pull the ball out of the yard
TBS just showed Meacham – They must want him fired!
damn ichiro… nice catch jeet…
I think Japan also oppressed Taiwan at the World Baseball Classic in 2006. And so it continues.
“In re: Giambi, he’s now at .900 in OPS, and has an OPS+ of 146.
Giambi is not Pujols, both offensively or defensively, but he is decidedly an asset to the Yankees.”
Yep.
Fran’s right. We’ll take this game!!!
(despite what Ichiro just did.)
“At a time when developing young players is becoming central to success at the major league level, many people in the media know almost nothing about minor league baseball.”
it sounds like it’s being said that there was a time when developing young players in the minors was not important. i hate to ask a stupid question, but hasn’t the major leagues always been filled with players from the minor leagues ? i mean, where did almost every veteran player for the last 75 years came from? so developing minor players has always been critical for major league teams.
the difference is the yankees are paying more attention to the minor leagues. they used to have teams like kansas city athletics that they could get players from . and then later with free agency , they could simply buy them after other teams developed them.
teams aren’t just now paying attention to the minor leagues. they always have.
it’s the yankees that are changing their approach form the past twenty years.
there is no reinventing the wheel with young players . someone has always been developing them.
Here’s our “Ace” again.
As an aside, it is an absolutely GLORIOUS day here in little rhody. If you could describe all of the elements of a perfect day, including the puffiness of the clouds and just the right amount of breeze on a bright and sunny day, this would be it.
GO LORD!
GO YANKEES!
crap, I go out of the room for 3 minutes and we’re behind.
With the way we’ve been playing, I’m not worried we won’t give him some run support though.
Anyone write longer posts than CB? Get your own blog bud.
How good would Ichiro be for us at leadoff and playing or center. Couldn’t we make a package for him? They can’t afford to keep him with that team. Give up Damon and a young pitcher or two. Maybe even another 2nd tier hitting prospect (like a Gardner?)
I’m fairly confident that Ichiro’s star power gets the Mariners a profit from him
And a homerun by Ichiro isn’t something I expected
can we stop with the “what would it take to get Ichiro” stuff… I think we killed that topic yesterday…
“there is no reinventing the wheel with young players . someone has always been developing them.”
I think the internet blogging world has something to do with this article and others. So much info is shared now by hardcore fans, writers feel like they need become more versed in the teams they are covering- at least any writers with any pride. And it’s gotta be tough for them- they are a lone person covering a large subject, whereas Pete’s blog here or nomaas, etc have tons people sharing info to make these much better sources.
And Pete is great- how about Mexican guy that just got promoted to AA and Pete asked the bloggers what they knew about him. At least 3-4 people quickly got some info up on this board.
By the way, Floyd, try to remember that our ace is pitching on extra rest. That doesn’t always work for every pitcher. So our ace is looking damned good for having strained a calf muscle and missed his regular start.
Probably true but what is definitely true is they need to retool that lineup with youth because they are a very flawed team.
Hey Floyd, how was Beckett, the patron saint of aces, last night?
“can we stop with the “what would it take to get Ichiro†stuff… I think we killed that topic yesterday…”
YES, PLEASE!
1. We’re not getting Ichiro.
2. I wouldn’t give up Damon.
3. We’re not getting Ichiro.
4. We’re just fine without Ichiro.
5. We’re not getting Ichiro.
and finally.
6. We’re not getting Ichiro.
Chris,
I was not on yesterday. You don’t need to respond if you don’t want to. It’s an interesting question that’s for sure.
El Capitan is back!!!
That is the first 2 out w/ RISP hit for Jete in a while
atta boy !
Great way for Jeet to break the slump!
RBI double is a great way to stop a slump
RBI with 2 out!!
Lets keep this 2 out rally going!
Some Jeter clutchness. Yay! Nice way to break that skid.
I havent’ read through all the comments by why would they want Ichiro?
If it was a simple question of would you give up Damon to get Ichiro, I think that trade is made 100 times out of 100, but that would be insane.
Big Joe – I didn’t mean to bust your chops. I didn’t even see who was talking about Ichiro. Nothing personal.
But – we’re not getting Ichiro.
Atleast we tied it up! Wanger has to have an easy inning now!
Alright
All tied up
let’s go Wang!
“it sounds like it’s being said that there was a time when developing young players in the minors was not important. i hate to ask a stupid question, but hasn’t the major leagues always been filled with players from the minor leagues ?”
This is true. But at the same point things are very different now than they were in the hey day of free agency.
Look at the number of young players being signed to long term contracts.
The rays signed Evan Longoria to a contract that could last last 9 years and pay him $44 million after he played 6 games in the bigs.
That’s remarkable – even for a team that has emphasized the draft and player development for years.
That’s a completely different way of setting up a team.
It’s an entirely different dynamic now than it was even 5 years ago.
Man glad Jeter got outta the slump.
I think that the only run Wang should give up or at least what i hope happens.
Trisha, agree with your points about Wang.
But don’t watste your energy on explaining to Floyd because he simply jumps at every chance at bashing Wang.
The best way to shut him up is to not respond to his comments at all.
enjoy the game
Harry,
Skip my posts. Problem solved.
I don’t expect everyone to like what I write. If you don’t just move on.
Won’t affect me either way.
Damon for Ichiro..hell to the yes.
But..not gonna happen.
Enjoy Seattle Ichiro
“That’s happened with Jackson – he’s a terrific prospect. Top 50 in all of baseball.”
CB – I thought you said Top 50 prospects were not highly regarded?? It was brought up to you that Hanley Ramirez was #30 on Baseball America’s list when the Marlins traded for him, and you insisted he was not highly regarded at the time of the trade.
Big Joe,
Playing the “what if…” trade game is always fun and interesting. I just got a little flustered after all the talk about it yesterday. I apologize for getting on to you.
and how many times is Caray’s voice going to crack in this game?
I know we couldn’t do it but I’d rather trade for him than a mid career pitcher. He is just the whole package Hit, run defense and a gun for an arm. I also like that he can foul off pitches for ages and see pitches. I’d just rather have him than Damon both batting and fielding.
One can dream.
randy –
I think the point trying to be made is that with revenue sharing and the luxury tax, teams that could never hope to retain home-grown talent 15 years ago have the financial wherewithal to do it now.
There has been a rash of “Evan Longoria”-like deals made that constitute a new trend in MLB.
Add to that the ridiculous price of #3 and #4 starters and the premium on drafting and developing talent is greater than when the KC Royals were joked about as a Yankee farm team.
Angel, I didn’t post here before this season so I don’t know if I am correct about some observations I am going to make.
But it seems that posters here like to discuss pie-in-the-sky, more or less their own fantasy camp and what they’d like to see happen and how they would do it as opposed to anything with any semblance of reality attached!
It also seems that there are posters who are quite prolific and given to analysis but only seem to go into any kind of schtick when the Yankees are down and out and don’t have much to say when there is nothing to complain about. I’m not saying they are totally negative nellies, but they seem to use specific moments (like someone having a bad game, perish the thought) to launch into stuff rather than to just hang out and enjoy good Yankee moments.
I could be wrong, but that’s the way it seems to me anyway.
And the leadoff walk will score. Giving back the run right away. Come on Igawang!
We just need a GITP here!
Chris and Trisha, No problem. Just a slow afternoon and I plan on dreaming of Ichiro in pinstripes when I take my mid afternoon siesta.
ham fighter,
You have your DVR ready? What is your prediction for Kershaw’s debut?
Mine is modest: 5IP, 4H, 1ER, 3BB, 7K
HR by Sexton?
Kev Van, is Floyd a Yankee fan? I didn’t realize he was a Wang basher.
ER: The ‘Igawang’ comment was not cool, man
Oh snap
Come on Wang. Get out of this
Wang is walking himself into trouble here.
god if it’s a flyball anyone but Damon
Wang is sloppy today.
“Chris and Trisha, No problem. Just a slow afternoon and I plan on dreaming of Ichiro in pinstripes when I take my mid afternoon siesta.”
“HR by Sexton?”
If you have you way, ER…
* your way
Igawang!!
The most dependable starter now is…. Rasner. Sad.
ER: Bugger off, racist
COME ON CM!!!
So a pop up to start would work…
You think the Molina brothers get together in the offseason and compare welts and bruises? Maybe moan about “why couldn’t dad have taught us to catch fly balls?
Or coming home would work too.
How cool was that?
GOOD WORK AROD!!!
that com’on that looked like a DP !
would have been nice to get the DP, but at least we got the out at home
now, we need a DP!!
Trisha, what’s up with these cryptic references to some “posters”? Why not just insult CB and SJ44 by name if their posts offend you so?
Does Pete Abe have a posting style manual that I’m not aware of?
come on Wang
good thing pete is on vacation today and SJ doenst seem to be posting because i wouldnt want them to strain themselves trying to come up with how to blame this Wang performance on the defense. Again he is a good pitcher, even very good at times, but certainly not a true Ace.
son of a …
CMW is wild up in the zone alot. Had a free swinger down 0-2 and could not get him to fish. Not good.
Hard to Double up Ichiro.
Well, there goes any hope of a 5 game win streak.
Great time to be squeezing Wang at the plate.
That didn’t sound right, but you know what I mean.
Wang has developed Mussinaitis…has plagued Pettitte also.
Nice defense today.
Oh Nick in SF would you please stop being such an SJ44 sycophant? It really is stifling.
And by the way, there are lots of other people doing the same thing. And no I don’t need to name them. There are certainly more than CB and SJ. On top of which I said it was my observation, which gave room for people who have been here longer to tell me I was incorrect.
So you know what? STFU. Your passive-aggressive BS and cryptic back-hand posts to and about me are also pretty old. I didn’t realize that Pete Abe appointed you forum moderator and conscience.
Bye now.
Even Giambi would have made that play.
“Angel, I didn’t post here before this season so I don’t know if I am correct about some observations I am going to make.”
We commonly refer to last season as “the good old days”
There we go – finally an erro – Now Wang can allow hits to the next 100 batters and its not his fault.
Oh Shelly, not what we needed at all
This is getting ugly. Duncan should have had at least one out on that.
GREAT PLAY GREAT PLAY!
duncan is an idiot savant… i love it…
Shelley next time strong throw to home plate
not your normal dp but we’ll take it lol
Oh my god is Wang lucky or what…awesome result.
“duncan is an idiot savant… i love it…”
Who is going to defend Wang the Ace now?
I feel like Wang “Doesnt have it” every other start…he is good bad good bad so on and so on.
Nice DP. Yanks can score off Seattle. Let’s go Yanks.
That was one harsh 4th inning.
at least it was over.
Wang is very out of sync today
all his pitches are up in the zone.
Hopefully the bats can stay yankee-like and bail Wang out today.
well, that’s an interesting way to get a DP
CMW is at about 20 pitches per inning and we don’t have Joba for today. We better get some runs because this game could be a high scorer when all is said and done.
nice recovery by duncan there, but man that was a lazy throw…
that in no way was a great play…but good old DP
the dreaded 4th inning bites again
Back to work bats! Get those runs back
Wang looks awful today. To an awful lineup.
That last play was fun to watch. C’mon ‘stache!
nah the yanks wont hit today they arent having any good ABs vs washburn
When Wang goes bad, he goes real bad. A little grit and toughness wouldn’t kill him.
Trisha –
Why be so hostile – it is a blog about baseball can we keep it from getting ugly?
This game is why pitchers who don’t strike guys out aren’t true aces.
I give Wang a ton of credit for that inning… He got a bunch of sub-par defensive plays and he didn’t let it rattle him and he didn’t let the game get out of hand.
Floyd: I don’t see you questioning Beckett’s aceness after last night
shelley needs to learn to take the ball to right with the way washburn is pitching him
Trisha don’t let any of these people bring down your spirit. You keep doing what you’re doing.
The trivia answer is 24 right? As in how many more WS rings the yanks have than the mets?
that’s a disgusting stat, Top 3 in HBP
Trisha, sorry if I touched a nerve, but I think the point was made. I should have trademarked “cryptic”!
I would say Maddux was an ace for a long time putting the ball in play…
americanbear
agree the web has everything to do with fan interest in the minor leagues. i was just pointing out the players were always there somewhere. web 2.O isn’t creating more players. it’s creating more interest in the players who have always been there.
it has to be good for minor league baseball.
as a yankee fan , i didn’t pay much attention to the minor league system until commentors on the blog like sj44 brought me up to speed with what’s happening in the yankee system.
what i knew of minor league players i knew as as a baseball fan, but until recently there wasn’t much point in paying too close attention to the yankee system as a yankee fan.
i do ,however think, there is a league wide trend in overvaluing young players right now. i can see a point where billy beane puts out a successful team of old undervalued players as everyone else flocks to the young players.
Beckett last night?
7 innings 2 runs 9 K’s
Ummmm u think Mr Wang would sign up for that every single time out???
I think so.
Duncan needs to learn to hit to RF….trying to pull THAT pitch and hitting into an Inning Ending DP is just awful.
I’ve reported you to Lohud “Joe Schmoe” for that racist comment.
Shelley is just horrible. His swing has gone to crap.
Can’t believe they have not gotten to Washburn. Should of have 4 runs by now.
I love how everyone killed Giambi about not hitting and not being able to play any D at first…News Flash he is a much better hiiter and feilder than Duncan. Duncan is a all or nothing guy he pops up, Strikes out or hits a homer. Plus he looks like a bright light is in his face on every ball that is hit to him.
“Why be so hostile – it is a blog about baseball can we keep it from getting ugly?”
Because I’m tried of having to answer for every post I make and I am especially tired of posters like Nick in SF jumping in and taking shots. It’s not the first time he’s done it. It’s a real hoot when it’s the posters to whom you’ve been nothing but cordial are the ones who are the real pythons.
That’s all.
Excuse me having a hostile moment.
Not surprising the yanks aren’t scoring crap, especially since you got your automatic hit machine sitting on the bench.
That being said….we are going to mash this bum on the mound soon….just a matter of time….Today the Offense will pick up the Wangster !
I live in Twins territory, and one of the biggest complaints I hear from Twins fans about Yankee fans, is that Yankee fans are always watching their team with an eye on what players they can have on their team from other teams. This was especially true of the Santana trade talks. It pissed a lot of them off no end that Santana might have gone to the Yankees, after the Twins had done all the hard work with him and the fans and team had *suffered* through the growing pains of his development to being the pitcher he is now. I can’t say I don’t understand where they get that idea from given what I see on this blog at times. Of course I always contend that the Yankees ownership/management seem to be changing their approach to working with their farm, rather than taking the shiniest new toy acquisition approach. The shiniest new toy acquistion hasn’t worked out for them, more often than it has. Because those acquistions come at a steep cost, in terms of the farm, and dollar amounts/years tied up in players affecting roster flexiblity for years to come.
But on the flip side, I also think thats its normal as a baseball fan to admire the talents of players on other teams and half wish they could be on yours, and understand that a lot of the discussion on blogs is precisely about speculating about such trades/moves – whether they’re grounded in reality or not. Because part of being a fan is doing that, especially with the advent of fantasy baseball. It does get annoying when it seems that some fans seem to be consistently down on the team they have, and always complaining about the players they dont. I think there is a balance.
If you make a strong play to home, Ichiro stays at first. He saw the lax throw to home, so he decides to go for it. Molina doesn’t give up on the play. Boom! Double play.
5 more innings to get back 2 runs? Can do.
Oh that blew chunks
Let’s go Wang.
The umpire gives Wang hard time.
randy if you need morons like sj44 to school you you don’t read enough.
It is only fourth inning. Down by just 2 runs and their bullpen was shot from last two days.
Yanks will win this game. Offense will wake up and the score will be tied by 6th inning and then we will go on to mash thier bullpen.
Ack, sorry for the long post.
Was longer than I thought.
Don’t you think judge has changeable strike zone, which breaks Wang’s confidence
An Angel post? Should I yawn now?
Someone should have dove!
Jeter would’ve gone for that. lol.
“Trisha don’t let any of these people bring down your spirit. You keep doing what you’re doing.”
Eric – thanks. It’s nice to hear that. I hear the opposite so much of the time!
Yeah this strike zone is a bit wacky.
Trisha, you are an inspiration to us positive people here. Dont let the Nicks in SF effect you. They are just utterly negative and destructive
Let’s blame the ump for Wang stinking.
Floyd when you listed Beckett’s stats from last night you forgot the part where he got the big fat L.
Are there two Jax’s on this board?
I’m confused.
Rasner is our ace.
sj44 didn’t even post here today and people are talking about him. Alrighty….
Just waiting for Mike to comment on the sj44 negative brigade. Then the day will be complete.
Beckett hasn’t been a model for consistency this season Floyd,
Diane, hey thanks! Really!!!
I’m usually pretty good about letting stuff roll off but every once-in-a-while getting mashed bothers me. So what you and Eric said was really a nice thing today.
Thanks again.
I forgot where the pitcher is supposed to throw a shutout every night on the road. I really think 99% of Yank fans would take Becketts line every single night.
Floyd: And Boston lost, which is the measuring stick for you Wang isn’t an ace people, apparently.
Oh wait, if Wang can pitch for 7 innings/1 run and not win (the 1-2 game against Cleveland), then he isn’t an ace because he “didn’t keep the team in the game”. If he keeps the Mariners to 3 and we come back for the win today, then he isn’t an ace because aces don’t give up 3 runs!
Except for Beckett. Beckett can go for 7 innings/2 runs and lose, and…he’s an ace for “not keeping the team in the game”? Beckett can give up 4 homeruns over 7 innings for 6 runs for a win and…still be called an ace. Cause apparently he “kept the team in the game”.
Oh, wait. Yea, Beckett is the infallible saint of aces.
I just think reading Angel posts makes one want to jump off a bridge.
nice recovery, quick inning from Wang, but already at 87 pitches
Blargh:
You are a moron if you think Wang is in the same league as Beckett. Every Yankee pitcher would kill for Becketts line from last night.
Wow, the racist comment was unnecessary
Let’s try and get some more runs now. No more dp!!
Is there two Jax’s on this board or is Jax just bipolar? Because at times I can post and Jax will say nothing at all to me, and other teams he’s like a freaking bitchy little 8th grader.
I’m really getting tired of these personal little stalkers.
Wow… don’t know what is worse, the hitting by the Yankees today or all these fragile feelings. Must be the stress from no 3 day weekends.
Well “fragiles” and “piling oners”, sit back, turn on TBS, open a brew and enjoy the weather and the fact you don’t have to work tomorrow.
Sj44 hasn’t posted here today? No wonder it is actually a fun board today even while we are losing.
Floyd, are you saying you’d take Beckett’s performance this year over Wang’s because he gave up 2 runs over 7 last night?
So who patches innings for us? I’d say we have Ollie rested, plus Hawkins and Ewar, of course depending on what happens in the next several innings.
Nick in SF,
I “observe” some of the same things as you.
Also, “some” posters here find it necessary to express themselves with abusive comments (vulgar abbreviations)
Angel, you ever post something Yankee related? or is it just about posters here? Some people need lives.
I think I just threw up in my mouth.
I’m sorry to everyone on the blog for being utterly negative and destructive — a constant drain on the good, positive spirits of the Yankee fans here. A virtual python in the Garden of LuHud.
Sheesh.
Wang vs Beckett?
That’s not serious is it?
guys just stop responding to the troll.
the more attention (replies) he gets, the more pumped he is, and more retarded stuff will come out of him.
Nick in SF is taking over for SJ44 today. Congrats, boy.
Yes, read up Rick, I do quite often.
When I’m not being stalked.
Trolls Suck
nice bunt
Wow, Jorge is getting a little grey around the temples.
Nice sac, Melky.
Don’tcha just love our guys???? See here’s the beauty in this team. Molina may not have a great offensive outing one day and drop in a single on another day. Robby may not take many walks and then just surprise us beautifully by taking one at a critical juncture!
And oh yeah – DA MELK!!!!!
Nick in SF- you are no such thing! I enjoy your posts.
Did you get the candy bars yet?
It’s like High School in here…lol
I’d take Dice K over Wang. No disrespect to Wanger but he just doesn’t K enough people to be a #1 starter.
Well surely we can get a run or two out of this. And I suppose if Floyd thinks that Beckett has been more Ace-like this year then Wang he can go ahead and take him.
nice bunt by melky…
and ron darling’s idiot is showing. it’s easy to solve the replay thing, just do it like hockey and have someone in the booth make the call…
Nice small ball by Melky
GiDP?
Apparently, if you don’t agree with the majority here you are a “troll”. Easy enough.
Beckett is a troll.
“Nick in SF is taking over for SJ44 today. Congrats, boy.”
I don’t think you meant to compliment him, did you?
Tseng, I can sense you are a Yankee homer. That’s terrific and I wish you well. But if you would take Wang over Beckett you are a Grade A, moron.
Washburn looks like a composite of Keifer Sutherland and a mouse.
Who cares whether Wang is an “ace” or not?
This is the dumbest ongoing debate along with the “Is A-Rod a true Yankee?” nonsense.
Depth in the rotation is far more important than having an “ace.”
Stacking the rotation with 4-5 quality starters is the best way to build a ball club and the reason why the Yanks won 4 rings in the late 90s.
Aces are overrated. I don’t care if Whitey Ford dove into a fountain of youth and pitched for the Yanks – they wouldn’t win every postseason game he took the mound because he’s going to be paired up against the other team’s ace.
That’s why it is far more important to have strong depth in the rotation rather than an ace and 4 average arms following him.
Give me four Wangs in the postseason and my team will be in a much better position to win a championship than a rotation headed by Johan Santana or Josh Beckett and mediocre talent behind them.
There goes Angel again. Posting about posters. Who made you sheriff of the board?
S.A., the pseudodrama of my Moose bar order is much more annoying that the pseudopsychodrame of the LuHud blog today, but I will post some photos of the Moose bars when they finally arrive. I think Thursday is the current target date.
“I’d take Dice K over Wang. No disrespect to Wanger but he just doesn’t K enough people to be a #1 starter.”
no disrespect to Dice-K but my Wang over him any day of the week
Dice-K over Wang? Really? Are you forgetting that his record would be mediocore if not for the offensive support he gets?
Hey hey hey, chip away!
Good job Yanks.
I cant believe they only have 2 runs
At least we got one back.
Aces are overrated?
Ask Arizona in 2001. Ask Boston in 2004 and 2007. Ask any Yankee fan if they want the 4 aces we had from 96-2001.
Wow, I got my first person posing as me at 2:47. Thanks for that. I guess it’s a form of respect.
I didnt like girardis managing that inning. My feeling is if you have your ACE on the mound and are going up against a bad pitcher and have a good offensive team and you are down only 2 in the 5th inning you shouldnt give away an out. I would criticize Torre for that so I cant ignore it when Girardi does it.
And Wang would be a great #3. But hes not a #1. He shouldn’t be starting game 1′s of any playoff series. He doesn’t miss any bats. And he always has that one bad inning. See todays box score.
“Who cares whether Wang is an “ace†or not?”
I think you are so right. I may think yes, someone may say no, but who really cares? The guy is keeping the Yanks in the game this season. And he’s doing so incredibly well.
And who made you sheriff of me, Rick?
You seem to be doing your own share of posting – exclusively about me.
In fact, I see nothing posted by you today – EXCEPT about me.
Oh, and Beckett may be a jackass, but he is a stud. I still wonder why we never attempted to get him when Florida was shopping him.
Guiseppe Franco, very very well said.
Thanks for the new perspective
Wang is fine. So he’s not Beckett. Who is?
and w/ that 2:47 PM post Nick in SF joins the Blog of Fame
Floyd, with the line up in Boston over the last 3 years, Beckett has only had 1 good season.
First season he was average. This season slightly better than average. At 5-4 with a 4.43 ERA he is more in line with what he was in Florida.
He should have been easily a 15+ game winner each year with the Red Sox.
And folks, an ACE bails you out of losing streaks, keeps your team in the game, changes the dynamics of a game. They may not always be pretty but it is the W’s that count. If you think Wang is not an ACE then, fine, but he always seems to make the pitches that count when he needs them. Second winningest pitcher over the last 5 years…. But I am just a moron who would take him over Beckett so what do I really know.
Angel picking fights again. You know its gameday when that happens.
I go out of my way to ignore trolls like you Angel. Sorry that my day and my watching the game aren’t built around you. How will you survive?
Same with Jax, nothing to say unless its about me.
I should be flattered if it wasn’t so damn creepy.
helno- gotta disagree with you there. If it was Jeter, Arod, etc. than yes, bad choice. But with Melky slumping, you have to put the bunt on…
One good season? He also has 2 World Series titles. And how can you call this season bad? Hes 5-4 and its May. And he was hurt and missed spring training. Relax there.
Sexson really likes to hack away. Huge hacks.
Angel, when I see a derisive post by someone and it’s the person’s only post on the blog, it always makes me think that it’s a hapless troll.
Defending Wang is great because thats what we should do but trying to tear down Beckett isn’t the way to go.
My problem isnt with Wang. I think he is a very good pitcher who has done very well for us and kept us alive in April. My comments are more about misguided people who think he is a true Ace. Now maybe he will become one but he isnt yet. And its an important topic to discuss because its the basis of decisions regarding should we go after a truer Ace in the offseason and it even long term affects moving Joba to the rotation.
“S.A., the pseudodrama of my Moose bar order is much more annoying that the pseudopsychodrame of the LuHud blog today, but I will post some photos of the Moose bars when they finally arrive. I think Thursday is the current target date.”
I can’t believe it has been such a hassle to get those candy bars. Hopefully they will arrive on Thursday.
Go Wang!
Back to work bats.
One thing staff ace’s do is keep the damage down when they don’t have their best stuff.
God, the Yankees ACE just sucks today.
What kind of pitcher goes out and gets 3 up 3 down with only 1 ball leaving the infield.
Yankees are so dumb keeping this 15 game winner on the team. Who wants a pitcher that gets ground balls consistently, rarely gives up more than 3 runs in a game… Loser, go back to Scranton.
Yeah, you really showed me today how disciplined you are at ignoring me, Rick.
The question is how will YOU survive? You’ve nothing to contribute around here unless its about me. Your posts bear that out.
Angel is a turn off here. Why do people have to start fights over a Yank message board?
Last year I think Beckett had the edge on Wang, but I am not so sure this year. I hate to admit it as a Sox fan but I think Wang has been more effective than Beckett this year.
Aces are overrated?
Ask Arizona in 2001. Ask Boston in 2004 and 2007. Ask any Yankee fan if they want the 4 aces we had from 96-2001.
No, actually, the Yanks didn’t have 4 aces when they won those rings. They had four very good pitchers, but they weren’t aces.
What you’re doing is elevating their individual status because the teams were so good. That’s common practice among Yankee fans.
Pettitte was never an ace. Cone was very good but not an ace like Schilling, Johnson, or Santana.
El Duque was very good, but not an ace. David Wells? Not hardly.
What they all had in common is that they were all very good pitchers and all played on the same team.
That is why four #2 starters is better than an ace and mediocrity. It was also the reason why the Yanks were able to sustain their dynasty over a number of years as opposed to one-year wonders like Arizona.
Wang better than Beckett?????
HAHAHAHA
“God, the Yankees ACE just sucks today.
What kind of pitcher goes out and gets 3 up 3 down with only 1 ball leaving the infield.
Yankees are so dumb keeping this 15 game winner on the team. Who wants a pitcher that gets ground balls consistently, rarely gives up more than 3 runs in a game… Loser, go back to Scranton.”
“Wow, I got my first person posing as me at 2:47. Thanks for that. I guess it’s a form of respect.”
I think that is commonly referred to as street cred.
Ah, I can but dream of such a day.
hmm..Matt Holliday pulls a hamstring is now on the 15 day DL
Chris – you can definitely make that argument. I just dont like giving up the outs versus a poor pitcher.
pettitte, el duque, cone, wells, clemens, key
All were aces and represented a deep rotation. something we haven’t had since. Hence why we havent won a title.
Sorry, I meant to type “staff aces” without the possessive apostrophe — poor usage is almost as bad as chronic negativity.
Floyd, Beckett’s was great last year, but Wang was as good or almost as good. If you’re saying that because Wang gave up 3 runs today over 6 runs that he’s not as good or because he gets roughed up sometimes he’s not as good as Beckett, then I don’t understand where you’re coming from because there’s not a pitcher alive that hasn’t had a horribly crappy game.
Sure, Beckett gets more K’s, but he also gives up a heck of lot more home runs. If there is a gap it’s not as big as you think it is. Come up with some stats other than Beckett’s performance last night to justify how me having the gall to prefer Wang over Beckett makes me a “moron”.
Hopefully, Joba, IPK, Hughes, Wang take over that tradition and form a deep ace like rotation.
And Beckett WAS the reason for those 2 titles.
And Wang is 6-2 with a 3.39 ERA on a team that has been 24th – 26th in hitting this year.
But you are right, it is only May.
Check out run support for Beckett, who he has faced versus Wang.
Sorry just don’t like Beckett. Good pitcher but he is over-rated.
Let’s go Giambi.
This is a completely different team with A-Rod in the lineup. Obviously.
“Angel, when I see a post by someone and it’s the person’s only post on the blog, it always makes me think that it’s a hapless troll.”
Unless those people of course are “Diane” and Eric”
“Guys, we are not that good today, just lucky. A Rod looks like a wetback from hell.”- Joe Schmoe
Just for the record, that was a different Joe Schmoe. Just to avoid confusion I’m going to change my name.
I don’t want to be in trouble for nothing.
This kind of game is nothing but good for us. Yankees need to win the come-from-behind and down-one-or-two-run games as much as they need to win some laughers.
GO YANKEES!!!
Six innings, three runs (also called a quality start) without good control. Yeah, DFA Wang.
Schilling and Pedro were the reason in ’04. Aces right? And that was Schills first yr. Shocker right?
Beckett dominated October last yr and you could say it was all him especially in the Cle series. How did Wang do vs Cle???
And how did Beckett do with Florida in ’03?
Please. Stop arguing this. You are looking stupid.
If Shelly makes that play at first, it would have been a triple play.
We can get a rally here. RIght Shelley.
“Unless those people of course are “Diane†and Ericâ€
Or, of course, “Vox Populi”
I actually believed there were posters named Eric and Diane who were being supportive, just like some were yesterday who have posted here in the past but not all the time. I have seen Diane here before.
Why would someone need to change their screename to say something positive? I can see people doing it with negative crap, Vox Populi…
Not our day. This game is over. Winning streak was nice while it lasted.
dammit Beltre !
Damn you, Beltre.
this is the game from hell
ugh
I guess if you defend Trisha you are a deemed a troll. Thanks for the clarification Vox. I needed that. I am a troll now.
Trade everyone.
Yes, Duncan in the lineup in the place of Matsui has turned out to be a STROKE of GENIUS !
Let’s go Wang!
1 more inning!
Wanger still has his stuff – that 1st pitch was 90 mph
” Not our day. This game is over. Winning streak was nice while it lasted. “…Gee I wonder what type a troll this is ? BoSux ? Tampa ?…or just plain MORON ?,.,
For the record, I think very few of the people who post on here are trolls. But I suspect that some of you may be Cylons.
Wang is pitching ok. Seattle has made some good plays defensively or the Yanks would be tied or ahead. They are only down by 1.
Diane perfect timing! In fact you had posted just before I put up my last post.
Cool.
Don’t you worry, racist Joe Schmoe poster. You have already been reported. Its IP addresses not posting names they look for. So don’t you worry.
I have a used car to sell you if you really believe all those guys were “aces.”
Again, Pettitte was very good but an “ace” like Santana or Pedro in his prime?
Not exactly.
David Wells was a horse but not an ace like Schilling or Johnson. Same thing for Cone.
Jimmy Key? Are you kidding? Again, a solid pitcher but not an ace.
Clemens was nowhere near the same pitcher when the Yanks won rings that he was in Boston or Toronto. Looks at his stats. Not even close.
He may not have been on his game today, but give Wang some credit. He has minimized the damage and kept the team in the game.
I like that if you don’t agree with someone they say you are a troll. So I guess I’m a troll for being in the Trisha camp.
*laughing at the BSG reference*
And let’s remember something about today’s game from the Seattle side of the house. They have been dreadful and are really looking to break out. The Yanks being down one run in the 7th is no great shame when you think about their need to win some games! We were there ourselves in the recent past.
Wang is WAY Better than your Beck@$$, OK ???… all you BoSux J@ck@$$e$ !!!
Really? Clemens in 2000 wasn’t good? Really???
And what was Wells’ post season record??
El Duque’s??
“Yes, Duncan in the lineup in the place of Matsui has turned out to be a STROKE of GENIUS !”
Of course, Girardi’s a moron. Matsui should play EVERY SINGLE GAME. Then, when he’s tired and sucking, he’ll REALLY be helpful to this team.
When do I rest my stud who needs periodic rest? Against a guy with a 7.00 ERA.
The one thing, two really, that I can’t stand about Ichiro is his girly stance at the plate. Squeezing his knees together like he has to pee. And how he points the bat at the pitcher, grabs his jersey on the shoulder, and makes a big production of swinging his back around.
Yes, I watch BSG – I embrace my inner nerdishness.
Only 1 more season of BSG after this one right?
And Chris has forced me to change my screen name so that I don’t think that some split personality is posting. Thanks for stealing my oh so original name…
This game is over. Great job Wang.
” Ask any Yankee fan if they want the 4 aces we had from 96-2001.”
’96 had two excellent starters (ERA+ of 130 or higher) (Pettitte and Cone) and 3 average to slightly above average (ERA+ between 100 and 110)…(great rotation)
’97 had two excellent starters again (also, Pettitte and Cone) and 2 slightly above average (Wells…and I’m counting Mendoza here, though I haven’t looked at his starting stats). Rogers sucked, Gooden was below average, and ’97 was Irabu’s bad half-year
’98 had an excellent starter in El Duque (another if you count Mendoza that year), two pretty good starters (ERA+ in mid to upper 120′s) (Wells and Cone), and two slightly above average (Pettitte and Irabu that year). Solid starting all around.
’99 had Cone going back up over 130 ERA+; El Duque fell down to ‘good’ territory (mid 110′s ERA+), and 3 rougly average starters (Pettitte at 101, Clemens at 103, and Irabu at 98). Hey, if you can fill in your 4th and 5th slots with league average, that’s still a pretty rockin’ rotation.
’00 saw Clemens at 130 ERA+, Pettitte at 111 (so ‘good’ in my book), El Duque at 107, Cone dropping like a rock to 70 (pretty bad), Denny Neagle at 83 (hmm, didn’t know Neagle pitched for us), and…a bit more of Mendoza (114 overall, haven’t looked specifically at him starting)
’01 had Moose at 142, Clemens at 128, Pettitte at 112, and…it drops after that to Lilly at 83, El Duque at 92, Keisler at 72 (10 starts), and Hitchcock at 69 (9 starts) presumably filling out the dreaded 5th slot
—-
I’d suggest that depth was what got the dynasty
Now let’s turn around and ask Cleveland how did having two aces work for them last year? Sabathia had a ERA+ of 143 and Carmona offered a 151. Pretty damn nice pitching to throw in first two slots. Byrd was league average at 100; ok for the 3rd slot. Or slide him to 4th slot as Westbrook had ERA+ of 107, good for 3rd slot. 5th slot looks like it was filled out with Lee (73), Sowers (72), and Laffey (101)
Of course, didn’t help when Sabathia and Carmona got destroyed by Boston…
—
Of course, my categorizing of various ERA+’s is completely arbitrary. I just like to bracket off at 10′s for simplicity
“Really? Clemens in 2000 wasn’t good? Really???
And what was Wells’ post season record??
El Duque’s??”
Do you only look at record when determining an ‘ace’?
Brandon Webb is an ‘ace’ whether or not he’s 33-0 or 10-15.
“I like that if you don’t agree with someone they say you are a troll. So I guess I’m a troll for being in the Trisha camp.”
Diane, actually “troll” is one of the nicer things some people here would call you for being in the Trisha camp!
Haha Mel, I thought I was the only one.
Ruh Roh
“And Chris has forced me to change my screen name so that I don’t think that some split personality is posting. Thanks for stealing my oh so original name…”
Because you are the only Chris in the world that posts here right????
If there are any other Jeffs out there. Change your name. LOL
Oh, ok. My bad. You’re right, based on the two post seasons of Beckett, regardless of how he does during the 162 games of the regular season, I’d probably take him over most other pitchers too. I concede to your convincing argument.
Angel,
LOL. And I meant to say how he swings his bat around.
come on Wang! Get out of this. Pretty please?
“Yes, Duncan in the lineup in the place of Matsui has turned out to be a STROKE of GENIUS !”
and w/ Green/Putz being both RHP you can PH Matsui for a RHB so we’ll see
Once was bad enough phony “Nick in SF” poster, but that’s more than enough. You realize there can be repercussions for doing that, don’t you?
because Beckett was awful last yr right Tseng??? And hes been terrible this yr right???
And there is your ACE Wang!!!! Great job Wang.
That was what I last heard, SA.
“He may not have been on his game today, but give Wang some credit. He has minimized the damage and kept the team in the game.”
ABSOLUTELY!
The guy is a hero to still be out there fighting at 110 pitches.
Mel – I also cannot stand those cat-like Kung Fu moves (or whatever they are).
wang sucks today
Wang this inning didn’t help the Wang defenders today.
That basehit hurt. Those are 2 big runs.
C’mon Wanger -Bear down!
I would say this inning by Wang would but a nice bow on the Beckett-Wang argument.
Yikes. That was not good at all
So your ace gives up 5 runs in 6 innings to THE LEAGUES WORST TEAM. And someone asked how Beckett did last night? Yank fans would give their left arms for Becketts night last night.
Oops. Well, the game’s not over yet.
I’m out. Try not to kill each other in here.
BTW, best wishes to Jon Lester’s dad who has cancer.
Just a stupid move all around. If you want to leave Wang in you HAVE TO WALK VIDRO who has killed him today and is on fire with the guy behind him in a HUGE slump. Otherwise you better get Wang out of there. He has shown that he cannot put hitters away and has been struggling with lefty hitters so far by getting the ball up. Make an unconventional move. When he gets to 2 strikes bring in Hawkins or Ramirez or someone who can get a quick K and try to get out of it. That 2 run single hurts big time.
Neeeeeevvvverrrrmind-
whoops!
Paulio, we still have to at least remember that Wang is pitching out of his turn and for all we know might still have a problem with that calf muscle.
He is not having his best game, but he did keep us in it, certainly until these last two runs. I guess we have to say it is no great shame for the offense to be shut down every so often. It happens. If Wang got the run support of the last two days he would have had this in the bag.
Still there are three innings.
Do not lose hope.
We will still win this game with some walk off stuff in the 9th Inning.
The Wangers have gone quiet here. Don’t worry. Wang is good but he’s no Ace. Sorry Tseng, Blargh and the rest. The eyes don’t lie.
“Yes, Duncan in the lineup in the place of Matsui has turned out to be a STROKE of GENIUS !”
Hindsight is 20/20. We need to find out if we have a RH batter in Shelley or not. To play him against Washburn was the right call, even tho his first two ABs were bad. We faced 3 LHSPs in a row from W-F and Giambi, Abreu and Damon all had one off day each. They are all playing well and no one complained then because we won those games. Look for all 4 to be in tomorrow’s game against Olsen tho because he’s gotten hit hard by LHBs. But I think (and hope) Joe sits Abreu Tues in favor of Duncan.
Yep, Wang stunk today.
It happens to everyone.
I just hate people who takes Wang’s performance for granted and come out and bash him at every chance they can.
Edwar looks like a 10 year old…
Wang our ace, at it again. 7ER, 5ER, wow, what an ace
Maybe Wang is hurt more than we know.
I’m questioning Joe’s decision now
when Ichiro hits a single,
Wang was over 100 pitches
Joe should change the pitcher at that time
but instead he left Wang on the mound
and you all see the damages
He reminds me of Pepe Le Pew at the plate, Mel. I have no idea why.
Another example of why I don’t trust Wang. Facing just a horrible lineup and he gets lit up. NOT AN ACE.
I forgot to list you there Kev Van. My bad. How was Wang again today, Kev Van??? I didn’t hear you there. How was our ACE?
Did you read my post at all Floyd? I said Beckett was great last year. Wang was pretty darn good too. I’d say they were about the same. What about the year before? What about this year? Based on the last three years, Wang has been more consistent. Am I saying Wang is way better than Beckett? No. Am I even saying he’s better than Beckett? No. I’m saying I’d rather have him then Beckett and to think so doesn’t make me stupid or a moron. It’s debatable.
Wang has been awful since the 6-0 start.
I still think Wang is an Ace. He’s our ace.
If people don’t…fine. I’m not gonna lose sleep over it.
Edwar is pitching well since he came up.
“So your ace gives up 5 runs in 6 innings to THE LEAGUES WORST TEAM. And someone asked how Beckett did last night? Yank fans would give their left arms for Becketts night last night.”
You’re right. Beckett was downright amazing vs the Orioles two starts ago. Ditto vs. the Brewers last week.
ROFL!
wtg cambio!
Duncan should never be in the line up, period.
It looks like Girardi left Wang in there one batter too long.
“BTW, best wishes to Jon Lester’s dad who has cancer.”
Mama mia.
It is my opinion that anyone who us using today’s game as the prototype of whether Wang is equal to Beckett is being ridiculous.
1. Pitching on extra rest may be hurting Wang.
2. A strained calf muscle may be hurting Wang.
You don’t use a pitcher’s less-than-stellar start as the basis of comparison to some other pitcher when you are trying to argue which pitcher might be better than the other!
Wang is a solid #2. But he is no Beckett. No one is really. But he’s no Zambrano or Webb either. He doesn’t K enough people to join that club.
* who is
who else held their breath thinking that would drop in front of Bobby?
Hmm, long post looking over stats of Yankees rotations from ’96 to ’01 either got eaten or is taking forever to get up
Anyway; Beckett, 7 innings, 6 runs, man, what an ace.
Wang might not be an ace like Johan but he’s the best on our team right now. (excluding rasner due to small sample size) He’s our team ace. If he isn’t, who is? Ian? Andy? Mikey?
Getting some hits here wouldn’t be a bad thing.
“The Wangers have gone quiet here. Don’t worry. Wang is good but he’s no Ace. Sorry Tseng, Blargh and the rest. The eyes don’t lie.”
Wang’s outing is still better than several Beckett outings this year.
Define ‘ace’? The ‘no doubt’ aces, IMO, are Webb, Halladay, Peavy, and Santana, with Santana becoming a borderline if he can’t turn it around. The borderline ‘aces’ include Beckett and Wang.
Talk about leaving a pitcher out there to dry. At the beginning of the inning I said that I couldn’t believe that Girardi was letting Wang start the inning. But every single ball was hit very hard in that inning. Wang didn’t have good stuff all game was it really necessary to try and push the envelope at 100 pitches in the 7th inning? Girardi just put this game out fo reach and it made absolutely no sense. With 1 man on he had to get him out of there, but with 2nd and 3rd he definitely should of got him out of there…Wang gave him all he had threw 6th and the Yanks only down 1 run..Why parade him out there for another?? Girardi is an idiot.
-East End
Obviously, you cannot distinguish the difference between an ace and a very good pitcher – which puzzles me why you don’t think Wang is an ace.
Here’s your problem. What depth does for a rotation is that it takes advantage of having very good pitchers on your team facing mediocrity on the opposing teams.
How many times during the Yanks run of championships did they lose the first game and go on to win the series?
It happened a lot. They never panicked.
Why? Because their rotation depth took full advantage of the major drop off in talent on the other side following their ace.
The opposing teams’ #2 – #4 were never as strong as the Yanks’ #2 – #4.
That was the single biggest reason (with Mo to slam the door) why the Yanks won 6 pennants over an 8yr span and won 4 rings. That is also the reason why El Duque and Wells had such good postseason records.
It’s really not that hard to understand. But, for some reason, you don’t seem to understand a simple concept.
Ok, let’s try this:
” Ask any Yankee fan if they want the 4 aces we had from 96-2001.”
’96 had two excellent starters (ERA+ of 130 or higher) (Pettitte and Cone) and 3 average to slightly above average (ERA+ between 100 and 110)…(great rotation)
’97 had two excellent starters again (also, Pettitte and Cone) and 2 slightly above average (Wells…and I’m counting Mendoza here, though I haven’t looked at his starting stats). Rogers sucked, Gooden was below average, and ’97 was Irabu’s bad half-year
’98 had an excellent starter in El Duque (another if you count Mendoza that year), two pretty good starters (ERA+ in mid to upper 120′s) (Wells and Cone), and two slightly above average (Pettitte and Irabu that year). Solid starting all around.
’99 had Cone going back up over 130 ERA+; El Duque fell down to ‘good’ territory (mid 110′s ERA+), and 3 rougly average starters (Pettitte at 101, Clemens at 103, and Irabu at 98). Hey, if you can fill in your 4th and 5th slots with league average, that’s still a pretty rockin’ rotation.
’00 saw Clemens at 130 ERA+, Pettitte at 111 (so ‘good’ in my book), El Duque at 107, Cone dropping like a rock to 70 (pretty bad), Denny Neagle at 83 (hmm, didn’t know Neagle pitched for us), and…a bit more of Mendoza (114 overall, haven’t looked specifically at him starting)
’01 had Moose at 142, Clemens at 128, Pettitte at 112, and…it drops after that to Lilly at 83, El Duque at 92, Keisler at 72 (10 starts), and Hitch**** at 69 (9 starts) presumably filling out the dreaded 5th slot
—-
I’d suggest that depth was what got the dynasty
Now let’s turn around and ask Cleveland how did having two aces work for them last year? Sabathia had a ERA+ of 143 and Carmona offered a 151. Pretty damn nice pitching to throw in first two slots. Byrd was league average at 100; ok for the 3rd slot. Or slide him to 4th slot as Westbrook had ERA+ of 107, good for 3rd slot. 5th slot looks like it was filled out with Lee (73), Sowers (72), and Laffey (101)
Of course, didn’t help when Sabathia and Carmona got destroyed by Boston…
“Wang has been awful since the 6-0 start.”
He was awful in the games against TB and Cleveland? Really? Did you watch those games? Those happened after his 6-0 start.
He was awful in the game vs the Mets. Today he battled. Maybe he was left in a bit too long.
But please, stop with the “he has been awful since the 6-0 start”
ugh
Wang is a good #2 or #3, but he is not a #1. That honor is going to go to either Hughes or Joba.
well that was a bad AB
“Wang is a solid #2. But he is no Beckett. No one is really. But he’s no Zambrano or Webb either. He doesn’t K enough people to join that club.”
K/9 is not an ‘ace’-defining stat. Wang has so far shown himself to be a total anomaly by being as successful as he has with a K/9 so low. Today, his command was off, and he walked way too many.
This game is ripe for a sweet come from behind win and preferably a walk off win.
This can propel the team to good confidence in heading to Baltimore.
Wang an Ace? That’s a joke right?
Oh, yea, and my categorization of ERA+ is completely arbitrary; I just bracket off at 10′s for simplicity
Yankees are winning this game 7 – 6 ( BANK on it ! )
yes, duncan should never play. no one should get a day off to stay rested for the rest of the season. that would be insane.
“randy if you need morons like sj44 to school you you don’t read enough.”
brian-
trisha is right about some odd hostilities that come out here on the blog (though i find nick from sf more and more amusing as i get exposed to his sarcasm and wit).
for you brian , i’ll just say if i want to learn more about wang for example, i won’t go read about it. i’ll call up the guy who taught him the sinker in the first place. chances are he’ll be getting a call from wang after the game as he often does.
don’t assume you know everything about everyone on the blog. i’ve found sj44 to be consistently informative about the game that’s behind the scenes.
Actually K rate is what goes into being an ace. it is about missing bats and not leaving anything to chance. Ie defense, luck,
What Wang has been doing is pretty much luck.
thanks for the jinx
The way this seasn has been going who think we won’t get swept in Balto?
come on Johnny
Also this Duncan experiment is a joke already. He is hitting .180. He tries to hit a grand slam on every pitch. Everyone know that he is not a major league hitter, and he cost them a run in this game. I am glad that real 1st baseman do not exist on this team.
randy:
You should really do more research instead of reading some anonymous poster and taking what he says as fact.
Oh dang it
“Actually K rate is what goes into being an ace. it is about missing bats and not leaving anything to chance. Ie defense, luck,
What Wang has been doing is pretty much luck.”
Luck for three consecutive seasons? At what point to you say that maybe, just maybe, the pitcher has some control over BABIP?
Duncan batting .176, yes .176, come on
Wow, floyd, I didn’t see you trolling during the 8 quality starts Wang had this year. Only during the three bad starts, today included. That’s the sign of the biggest type of wuss – kick someone when they’re down, but don’t show your face when they’re up.
WOW, who really cares what we classify Wang as? He’s the Yankees number one starter right now no matter what you classify him as. Obviously the plan is for him to be the number 2 and Joba to take over the number 1 spot. So ace, not an ace, should be number 2, better than beckett, worse than beckett, who cares??
Beckett post-season ERA:1.73
Wang post-season ERA:7.58
Ouch.
FYI: Wang’s K/9 (before today) was 5.26. Not Volquez-like, but still solid.
having 4 Wangs would be nice. Since he is good. But one Wang isn’t enough and calling him an ace is wrong. We had 4+ Wangs and we won titles. Did Cashman forget why we won titles? Starting pitching.
That’s what wins titles. And you need to add to Wang for this team to win. Otherwise they are a first round knockout waiting to happen. Wang would great going 2nd in a series but he doesn’t miss bats and leaves too much to chance to be considered a top of the line starter.
I’m thru arguing with you Franco because you obviously think Wang is Sandy Koufax.
Obviously, we do care David.
Really great of Cashman getting a real 1b on the roster. Its not an important position or anything.
I agree with most of the posters here, Chin Ming Wang is not the problem, he is one of the solutions. We need more like Wang, not less. He is just not a #1, but he is without a doubt a good solid pitcher.
Hey The Rick -
I am full-blooded Italian and want you to know that my gram was actually a petite woman and I never saw her in a black dress. None of my relatives drop in through roofs, but I would say they are all hard-working!
And finally, about offers you can’t refuse – well my family hails from the northern part of Italy and my understanding is that if you keep your distance, you won’t get shot by someone from the southern part…
Beckett against Cleveland last yr and Wang vs Cle really answers the Ace question.
Would you ever see Beckett walk off the mound in inning 1 in a playoff game?
I guess I should be happy. My name was just stolen by some weird talking dude.
1999 Greg Maddux had a K/9 of 5.58, and won 19 games (yes, I cherry-picked his lowest K/9
).
Today isn’t the right day for defending Wang.
Bottom line is aside from rest, they have to see what they have in Duncan. He is too good for AAA, so they are trying to get him some more consistent at-bats to see if he can be a part of their future plans.
Why even entertain someone who’s obviously enjoying himself by annoying you?
Maddux isn’t exactlty a postseason ace is he???
“Beckett post-season ERA:1.73
Wang post-season ERA:7.58
Ouch.”
What’s Sabathia’s?
Look at Edwar Ramirez!
This is the Edwar I liked last year.
Is there any other reason Beckett is better than Wang other than the postseason?
They need to get Duncan 400 at bats to see what he is. Just like they need to get Joba 150 innings. And they need to see if Ramirez, Ollie, Veras, Britton are legit set up men.
Once, just once, can we get a Web Gem out of an outfielder?
I’ve never seen the pinstripes look so baggy on a player.
I really wanted to win this game because I think that Kennedy will get rocked tomorrow.
Well, 4 game winning streak, guess we used it up for the season
I don’t understand why they don’t try to trade Shelly Duncan. I mean, I get that he’s Giambi insurance, essentially. However, he can also be the starting 1B on a bunch of teams (Seattle, for one) and he’s never going to get a consistent number of AB’s. Maybe they should do the guy a favor and cut him loose for something.
If there is one thing that this discussion has clarified, it’s that there is no objective definition of what an ‘ace’ is. And another is that people love to trash Wang when he doesn’t have his best stuff.
Wang wasn’t sharp, as everyone can see, plus he was let down by his defense. Or you can look at the glass as half empty and say he was bailed out by that crazy DP and he just got lucky. Either way, he gave up 3 runs in 6 innings. Maybe Girardi left him out one inning too long, but even giving up 5 runs in 7 innings isn’t like giving up 6 before the 2nd inning is over. Wang was good enough to give the Yanks a chance to win this game.
uh-oh Edwar’s 0.00 ERA is in danger now
The fact that beckett has 1024 K’s in 1075 innings is a fairly good reason too.
Eric, the problem with 1B is that it seems that Yankee fans want each position player to be all things to all people! 1B is a very schizophrenic position on the diamond. By the way, I have always felt that 1B is a position that calls for top-flight defense. (And before Giambi haters call me on that statement, my defense of G is that he is not the antiChrist. He does some things well at 1B and he also does contribute with the bat, even when he has gotten a slow start.)
When we had Menky at 1st, people complained about his lack of hitting! Though you hope of course that your players are going to be able to give you both offense and defense, we know that most players don’t have a perfect balance of both. It’s been a while since we have had someone at first who has given us a great balance of offense and defense. If I had to take my choice, I would definitely take the defense over the offense because we really do have others who can pick up the offense slack. But as soon as you see someone at first who can work the glove well but isn’t hitting, you will automatically hear the bitching about that!
Obviously, you missed the point entirely and that’s pretty sad since my focus and the entire basis of my argument was that “aces” are overrated and depth is more important.
Never once did I argue how good or bad of a pitcher Wang is.
I’m sorry I spoke way above your head.
You got some real homers here if they say they want Wang more than Beckett.
Nice job, Edwar.
“I don’t understand why they don’t try to trade Shelly Duncan. I mean, I get that he’s Giambi insurance, essentially. However, he can also be the starting 1B on a bunch of teams (Seattle, for one) and he’s never going to get a consistent number of AB’s. Maybe they should do the guy a favor and cut him loose for something.”
Um, what exactly would you get for Duncan? 10 Maple bats?
WOW he got Ichiro to GO w/ RISP
You think Wang is an ace. I don’t, Franco. I think Wang is a good pitcher who can eventually be great if he improves. I’m sorry thats over your head.
ok, boys, Edwar kept you in it. Now get him his first win!!
trisha, when the yankees sign mark teixeira next year, then they’ll have an offensive/defensive threat at 1B.
When did this place become a cesspool of racist posts? Ugh.
Man, that Jonathan Sanchez sure is an ace.
I’d like someone on the roster who can actually play 1b and help the fielders and pitchers. And help our “ace” who gets 20 ground balls a game. That ain’t asking for much. We don’t have strikeout pitchers therefore we should have a defense that is above average.
you mean when we overpay teixeira?
I would rather have Wang than Mr. 4.50 ERA Josh Beckett. I guess that makes me a homer.
I reported that guy to Lohud for the racism. I hope they ban his IP address. I don’t mind arguing over the team but racism is terrible.
Maddux has a career era of 3.34 in the playoffs; pretty good actually.
That, and ’99 edition of Maddux had a postseason era of 2.25.
Although the thing about career playoff eras is that it makes Jeff Weaver (4.03) comparable to Santana (3.97). There really should be no way to drag down Santana, the patron god of aces, to Jeff Weaver’s level.
V, well what are you getting with him? Joe Girardi’s endless lineup changes? I mean, he doesn’t seem like he can play in this capacity (platoon, PH, etc.). The guy can play if given the chance everyday and if the Yankees decided to trade him, yes, they would get more than 10 maple bats (maybe 12 ash bats?).
They won’t sign Texeria. They need 1b for Posada in 2 yrs and maybe Jeter and the new Yanks are cheap. They won’t pay.
Jeff Marquez is pitching better in AAA
went 6 IP, 3 ER forget that this is what was good
GO/AO 14-2, PT/S 100-64 faced 30 batters
“Maddux has a career era of 3.34 in the playoffs; pretty good actually.
That, and ‘99 edition of Maddux had a postseason era of 2.25.
Although the thing about career playoff eras is that it makes Jeff Weaver (4.03) comparable to Santana (3.97). There really should be no way to drag down Santana, the patron god of aces, to Jeff Weaver’s level.”
Weaver was ace-like in the 2006 playoffs
Don’t you worry Wang lovers. We’ll keep Beckett and keep winning titles here while you can have those 19 reg season wins.
Trisha – I agree with you. The Yankees need defense at 1st more that offense. Both would be nice, but defense is so important. We have seen Giambi and Duncan not make plays that a 1st baseman should make.
Need some late inning magic here – there should be plenty left in the well since we only have one come from behind win this year that I can remember
Rhodes is coming in, we’re definitely a chance now
Floyd, where the hell were you in April when Wang went undefeated? I didn’t see you coming out and say non sense crap about Wang.
The fact is, every player goes through some slumps.
And you don’t seem to get that.
It seems like normal logic doesn’t apply on u.
I’d have to use ur own little retarded logic to reason with you. And it is that kinda logic I’d never comprehend.
We have a comeback in us this inning.
Blargh,
A fine analysis of the championship years and a few stats to back up exactly what I’m talking about.
Yankee fans often elevate the individual statuses of these players (you can add a Check Knoblauch, Scott Brosius, Jeff Nelson, or Mike Stanton to that list as well) because the team was so good.
But in reality, all of these things came together because they had the best starting rotation depth (and closer) in all of baseball over a number of years.
The MLB active hits leader is Omar Vizquel!
“Man, that Jonathan Sanchez sure is an ace.”
you sarcastically dissing my boy ?
If Jorge moves to 1st in 2 years, with Romines or Montero or Cervelli taking over, where does Jeter go? RF?
“trisha, when the yankees sign mark teixeira next year, then they’ll have an offensive/defensive threat at 1B.”
You are definitely right about Texeira. And I haven’t stopped to take a pulse on this, but if you think of the 1B around the league, are there many who have the o/d mix at a very high level.
This is when pitching becomes interesting and to get into the psyche of a manager would be so cool to be able to do.
Arthur Rhodes is owned by the Yankees. He was pretty awful yesterday. So now McLaren puts him out there again. Is he doing it because he feels there is enough of a lead that Rhodes should be able to get out of this and it will help his confidence?
Kev Van, I know you are #1 in the Wang fan club and you enjoy that ranking but face the facts. He is not an ace. Good pitcher? Sure. But season on the line you really want him pitching? If you say yes, you’re a wacko homer.
Anybody who would choose Wang over Beckett doesn’t understand baseball.
“V, well what are you getting with him? Joe Girardi’s endless lineup changes? I mean, he doesn’t seem like he can play in this capacity (platoon, PH, etc.). The guy can play if given the chance everyday and if the Yankees decided to trade him, yes, they would get more than 10 maple bats (maybe 12 ash bats?).”
:shrug: He had at least one line drive double caught for an out today.
The Yankees will kill Arthur Rhodes, like they always do.
Hmmmm, I only get YES via DirecTV during games. I’m going to miss the Michael Kay interview of Tony Danza. That could be one for the ages.
It wouldnt kill the Yanks to actually have a 1b who can pick it with the glove.
on no, it’s the wave again
Wow. Wang is solid but comapring him to Josh Beckett???
Did you people watch baseball in October?
Pokey, Jeter will always play SS because of the intangibles he brings =P. Seriously, perhaps they’ll stick Posada at DH and Jeter at first? Posada would be gone by the time A-rod needs the DH slot theoretically.
Atta boy Bobby!!!
Bobby!
A-rod is pretty good guys, but have you SEEN him in october? F* those regular season games.
awesome at bat!!
Fran, I have gotten just about murdered in the past for suggesting that you need great D at first! I swear to you that guys on other forums basically told me I was crazy, that 1B was an overrated position in terms of D, and that just about anyone could cover first adequately. And they’d all agree with each other about it.
I have to say it must be a commonly-held MYTH, though, because I saw Arod address it on Yesteryears, and he too said he thought it was a highly underrated position in terms of the need for great D.
lets go Bobby !
Abreu was just toying with this guy the whole at bat.
5-3. Here come the Yankees.
I absolutely love Arthur Rhodes!!!!
McLaren needs to get Rhodes out of there. For his own sake.
“gap city written all over it” – k.singleton
Maybe Atl keeps Tex. They need him.
When Abreu is on his game, he is such as assett to this team. That was a textbook fantastic at-bat. Wow. Having Arod back helps him so much.
Wow, Wang over Beckett? WHy are people still using Wins and Loses as a measuring stick of a pitchers effectivness? It’s 2008, morons, catch up.
Well, Diane, you said the Yanks had a rally in them!
Good call!!!
GO YANKS!!!!!
Rodriguez vs Putz…
I guess tseng blames A-Rod for the lack of pitching.
oh so many typos.. fark it.
Or, asset. The extra ‘t’ is for timely.
Tseng,
I would say you’re right, but there is also the AG to think about. If he continues to improve with the bat, does that push Jeet out of his SS spot sooner?
Trisha – that’s why Alex said that Olerud was so important to the Yanks. His defense.
And as for anybody covering 1st base adequately we have seen that is just not true. And when Giambi or Duncan fails to make a play everyone on this blog is certianly quick to jump all over them.
Now you people love Bobby??? The fickle are here and in charge. Whats next? SJ praising Giambi?
we also have Giambi and Matsui on the bench right ?
Can we come back again so soon?
Yes, we can!!!!
GO YANKS!!!!
Sigh. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote in my first comment about this topic.
I never once called Wang an “ace.” You are making that up.
Here’s what I said:
And here:
Anyone else who read these statements would not interpret my analysis of Wang as being Sandy Koufax or the like. In fact, they would interpret them as the opposite.
The focus of my argument is that depth is more important than having an ace. Why would I then claim Wang is an ace like a Santana or Beckett?
That wouldn’t make whole lot of sense – now would it?
After seeing Donnie Baseball and Keith hernandez in this town for years I long for a 1b who is a Gold Glover.
horrible call
I’ve always liked Bobby.
Franco like I said. I’m done with you. You obviously are obsessed with me and Wang being an Ace. Accept that hes just good which is nice to be.
I haven’t seen a Guiseppe Franco commercial on YES for ages. Have they stopped running them?
good AB !
Angel likes a Yankee??? Shocked.
A bunch of superb at bats so far this inning. A+ for the approach of all the hitters this inning.
One swing baby.
it’s up to Giambi now.
Nah Bob, I understand that pitchers can’t be considered any good unless they shut down in the postseason, nevermind the fact that we’re judging Wang mainly on the basis of 1 postseason.
After further reflection, I think I can understand all of your points of view and will accept that Josh Beckett is much better than Wang and anyone thinks that Wang is at all comparable to the production of Beckett clearly does not watch baseball in October or baseball games vs the Athletics yesterday. For God’s sake Wang-supporters, did you SEE josh beckett yesterday? Did you see Wang today? On the basis of those two days alone Wang is a piece of crap.
Happy?
Angel, me too re: Bobby. The guy is tremendous. Cripes for a while there he was our total offense!
This would be an old school Yank comeback.
Jason Giambi, carnival barker.
Procede was so offended by Giambi’s mustache that they pulled their sponsorship.
oh horrible call !
these umps are absolutely terrible
Wow, that was NO strike.
That was a ball. Geez, umpire.
giambi got hosed
Wow! That was so outside it was ridiculous!!!!
Aggghhh!!!!
Tseng is from Taiwan and a little blinded.
that was no where near a strike
Holy crapoly.
DA YANKS!
duncan should be sent down… hes terrible.
Putz should have eaten that ball.
Haha I was about to say bad hit by Matsui but WOW, that was a horrible play by Seattle.
oh WOW ! thank god ! not about him being hurt but thank god !
That throw might have been the funniest play I’ve seen this year.
That’s just Putz being Putz.
Anyway you can get them!!!! Godzilla strikes!!!!
look at Matsui’s blazing speed!
McLaren fired 8 minutes after this game.
LOL Nick.
I thought they couldn’t possibly be ever offended.
They had Gary Busey in their commerical after all.
Harry, I was born in Boston, grew up in New York, and currently live in South Carolina.
Nice
Just a sac fly ties it up, and even if it goes to extras, they’ve already used their closer
we neeeeed to capitalize on that belly flop by Putz
Now we need to be able to have a little empathy here. These are the kinds of things that were happening to the Yanks a few short weeks back. Maybe even one week?
When things go wrong, oh do they go wrong!
This Yankee team, win or lose today, has suddenly shown some life today and the past 4 games. Bodes well for the rest of the season!!!!
I hope hes hurt. Bring back Rhodes.
What a putz.
All we need is a double to tie the game.
Matsui is good at it.
Tony Pena hitting the deck is one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen!
com’on ROBI !
I was giving you an out Tseng for you pro Wang nonsense.
Gonazales should be pinch-running for Matsui to stay out of the DP. Yankees lose him anyway
Pinch-Run Pinch-Run.
Harry,
Already have one, I’m an idiot. I WAS born in Boston after all =)
You know that Kay is just dying for Ichiro to have to thrown home to get an out and we score anyhow
YEH ROBI!!
Tie!! Does this make me a troll for being happy??
good job Robbie!
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tie Game!!! Great comeback boys.
Just like the Yankees of old!!!!
Tears to my eyes for what our Yanks have done!
(Also, I feel very sad for McLaren if he loses his job. He can only do what he can do.)
beauty Robbie! This team is so much more alive right now, the dark days are done. Nice tag up by Matsui too!
Nice Job. Didn’t matter but the Yankees lose Matsui anyway because they pinch-hit him for Duncan. Otherwise, they have to move Matsui in LF and put Damon on 1B. They lose one or the other.
NICE!!!
Can’t beleive Matsui got to 2nd
NAME THAT MOLINA !!!
WOW what an inning.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!
MOLINA DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clutch running by Matsui.
And he comes in to score!!!
Who needs Jorgie????
LOL.
Ichiro is an idiot… nice route to the ball there smart guy…
COMEBACK! Wow! Enter Sandman!
And the comeback is complete!!
Mo-lin-a! Mo-lin-a!!!!!
GO YANKS!!!!!
Is Molina insane? He might want to run out of the box next time.
I do believe I called for some “late inning magic”!!!!!
WTG Yanks!
We save Wang a loss.
KUDOS DIANE!!!!!
You called it!
Hip Hip Jose!
Now, all we need is a deep fly to tie the game.
Now it doesn’t matter that they lose Matsui. With a lead they put Ensberg at 1B for defensive reasons. Still, Girardi should have pinch-run for Matsui.
Yes!!
Good job by Matsui to be in scorng position on the play before.
Molina needed that.
What a great way to end this series, if we get a come from behind win before going on teh road.
we now control our Density…c’mon Mo!
Trisha-
What I’d like at First base is basically what I look for in all the ballplayers I want on my team- Someone who can do all things at or above average. A good hitter who can work counts, swings an average to above average bat, abd can field his position well and make the basic plays. Players at first base who fit that mold were Mattingly, Tino, Olerud, Nick Johnson when healthy and Mark Texeira. I’m not looking for a superstar at every position, just good all around ballplayers.
The problem with the Yankees now is that when everyone is hitting, they have 3 players for 2 positions (Matsui, Damon and Giambi for LF and DH). They also have no capable first baseman. Giambi has no range or arm. Shelley doesn’t have the instincts there. Starting Giambi at first occassionally can work, but everyday, he’s a liability out there. Plays he and Duncan don’t make make pitchers throw more pitches. And, even last weekend on the play Wang got hurt on, a better first baseman maybe makes the play to first unassisted, not risking Wang.
The fact is this is a big flaw with how the team is constructed. Is it a fatal flaw? We’ll see over time. Is it one that can be corrected, we’ll also see.
Great rally by the Yanks! Now Time for Mo to close it!
And this is when I want to remind all you Molina DFAers about the value of a marathon and not a sprint!
GEEZE!
Weren’t we just having this conversation yesterday about Molina’s worth?????
See, aces don’t lose games like this. Game, set, match!
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!
trish is gonna laugh in a lot of faces this year. Never count out the Yankees.
Now it is a brand new game and Yanks will win.
And Wang’s perfect record against Mariners continues
Not in the prettiest way, but if nothing goes wrong, we win anyway, and that’s what matters
3 more outs.
Trisha- you realize that since we dedicated the games to Chris the Yanks have been playing inspired baseball.
Time for Mo to bless us with his divine presence!
the sj44 negative brigade is taking one on the chin today
Even if the Yankees somehow lost this game, you still take away all positives. They got the ball to Rivera so win or lose it’s a pseudo win and you really couldn’t ask for more.
First comeback of the year. Signs of life.
good hand for Edwar there, the kid deserves it…
Unbelievable.
I had tickets to the game today and slept through my alarm.
I hate myself.
Great job by Edwar keeping the game in reach and getting it to Rivera. Probably the unsung hero of the game!
wow – when things are bad, they are really bad! feel bad for the Mariner fans…BUT…3 more outs!!
Great comeback. Poor Seattle they are just awful.
Anyone who said “this game is over” in the top of the 7th should post their thoughts now. And anyone who said “this game is over” in the top of the 4th should be studied.
Let’s close it out Mo!
“the sj44 negative brigade is taking one on the chin today”
you must have like a secret on him or something
Josh Beckett wishes he had a comeback last night.
How good do you have to feel for Ewar Ramirez? It wasn’t that long ago that he came out of a game after giving a granny and was sent down. Cried at his locker.
Nows he gets a standing O and walks off with such a nice smile.
GOOD ON YOU EWAR!
GO JOE GIRARDI!!!!!
@Kill-Schill:
You’re completely right. What if Cano hits into a DP just because Matsui is not fast enough?
hard to tell on t.v, could be though itchys laziness ccould be the reason the yanks may win. sui to second is on itchy, the fly falling looked as though a diveing play may have got to it. hard to tell, he is a lazy player.
The key to that inning was Matsui’s tagging up. That guy is on fire on the basepaths. Don’t know if Pena told him to tag up or what, but what a smart play. And Molina with the double. Looked like Ichiro couldn’t find the ball in the sun. God was smiling down on the Yankees right into his eyes!
It’s tough being a Mariners fan right now.
where r the idiot trolls now ???
Any questions about what was driving the results of this series, the Yankees getting hot or the Mariners just sucking, have been answered. The Yanks just scored three runs against one of the best closers in baseball; they have offically turned it around.
I haven’t bothered getting into this Beckett v Wang fray because it makes no sense to me. But I do want to take this opportunity to say to anyone who may have used the word “ace” and “Beckett” in the same sentence: surely you jest!
4.43 ERA?
Yeah, okay.
you serious blue
We need Joba in the 8th! kidding
Wow, that looked like a great strike.
that was strike 3 you moron…
I’m pretty sure from what I know of SJ, that he’d be as happy as everyone else about how they’ve fought they their way back into this game.
trisha. Forget his ERA after 10 starts and 2 months. What is his ERA in the playoffs?
Forget defensive stats. Who wouldn’t want Jetes playing SS in a game that mattered?
Beckett is a great pitcher, but he’s always one blister away from oblivion.
The ump is terrible
OMG I want to kick this umps a–
about time blind rat
Fran, wow. I am going to call his mom and tell her about this. I just hope I can do it without breaking down.
It’s an amazing thing, isn’t it. Chris has to be celebrating up a storm in heaven. Thanks for reminding me, Fran.
Make up call.
Ill take it!
imagine if all things being equal, how good would jeter be if he had learned left hitting, all skills being same. I wnat jeter in every game we play. he wins.
Now Mo is an Ace.
oh damn!! my dog just sat on the remote and changed the channel to amc where chuck norris is Missing in action. in the past whenever that happens yankees lose.. please, please, please no blown save…pleeeease
5 in a row! Back to .500
I am really happy for Edwar getting the win. He has been pitching really well. On to Baltimore to shoot down the Orioles.
Trisha – we did call this win early today!
Talk about touching the face of God. Flying into space and watching Mariano Rivera pitch…
YEH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mo!!!!!!!!!!
Great win
Wang avoids 3 losses in a row
Edwar gets his first win
Mo continues to be Mo
Great come from behind win to take on the road
SWEET SWEEP!!!
yesssss!! doggie gets to have dinner today!
RALLY SQUIRREL!!!
5 game streak!
Yay! So exciting!
SWEEEEEEEPPPP!!!!!!
My first guess was the Yankees coming back to win 6-5, but didn’t have the brass ones to type that in…oh, well…I did say that after this weekend, we would be at 5 in a row headed for 12 straight and we are STILL ON PACE FOR THAT !
And Jeter led off the comeback by working a walk. He’s always involved.
Ouch, Ken Singleton on that pun!
MO IS AMAZING!!!!!
Wow, that was great.
YES!!!!!!!
SWEEEEEEEEEET WIN !!!!!
Pass the word, the Yankee swagger is returning.
where are the ones who wanted to trade matsui now. one of the steadiest least selfish players i’ve seen.
If anyone else would want to admit it, is anyone else ever moved to tears (in a good way) watching the Yanks sometimes, or watching particular plays?
I always feel like such a loser. I can’t help it but I do get choked up.
I realize I gave people a huge opening with the loser statement, but the way I’m feeling now, there’s nothing you could do to take me down!!!
Ive said it before. When they lose, they look AWFUL.
But man, when they win, its a beautiful thing. And right now they are playing beautiful baseball. I dont think I say it enough (especially when they lose), but I love this team.
Great Win. Props to Don Vito for calling a 7-6 Yanks win when they were down.
I hope that the Mariners can find a way to take something good out of this game. Maybe when we were really struggling if we finally took a lead in a game, it felt like a big deal, even if we ended up losing the game?
GO MARINERS!
Rover:
I have to admit I was leading the “trade matsui” movement during the offseason.
I have officially eaten my words for lunch today with a side of potato salad.
When Molina hit that double it just shows you how much faith they have in their closer. It didn’t even look like he felt he needed to run to first base. He played it like a walk-off. One run is good enough! I mean it’s OK because Rivera has pretty much been automatic, but nothing is truly automatic in baseball…
Great win by the Yanks – Maybe Seattle will fire McLaren and get some mojo before they face the BoSux on Monday!
there needs to be an army of squirrels released onto the field whenever the yankees are down…i’m talking into the thousands
today we were reminded of the power of one squirrel what if there more
This game learnt me, I don’t believe I would want itchy row on the yankee team. saw things I didn’t like with the guy. jmo
Ah, good ol’ Mo
Good job by Edwar, keeping that 0 era alive
Offense picked up Wang; good to see the offense being capable of comebacks
And A-Rod’s mojo keeps working
Woo. Yankees win, despite Igawang.
Good man Dr. you are forgiven, even by Hideki. lol
Er, you are a whack job.
Fran, I think you’re right. I think we did call this early! You definitely got the jump today.
Okay, are we ready to predict a sweep in BMORE?
You know, I feel it in me. I really really do!
Speaking of sweep – GO OAKLAND!!!!!
Ugh, congrats on the most offensive comment of the day at 4:26. That’s just ugly.
1-1 in Oakland after one inning.
This is a real character building win.
They were down, but back to win.
That too against a very good closer.
Now we are at .500 and off to the new heights and finally winning the division.
The bullpen is really taking shape. Edwar has become an important piece. When Cox and/or Melancon come it will be complete.
Let us enjoy the ride for the rest of the season!!!!!
I must admit that was the best game I’ve heard all season.
Missed sj44′s informative posts though
nice inning by ewar
love the way John S got Molina and Robbie Cano mixed
especially right after Cano hit the sac fly
Ewar rip but don’t tell anyone though
Molina didnt run to first because he thought it was going to be caught and the inning over. I can’t fathom how stupid some of you people are.
Don Vito – hope your prediction is right.
Let’s hope Seattle gets their act together starting tomorrow vs. the Red Sox!!!
“Yankees win, praise Allah, may we partake in celebration my friends. Praytell, may I ask where and when the new Yankk Stadium will officially be opened for her primiergame, as I would like to fly in.”
Take it down a notch there, son. posting comments on the internet like that, especially pertaining to the city of New York City can land you in a world of hurt.
Trust me. I know…
keith, you’re an idiot. Molina said when he hit the ball and saw Ichiro he knew Ichiro had no chance to catch the ball. And wait, is this something new that you don’t run when you hit a fly ball? That’s what gets players benched and fined.
Molina hit it like a walk-off. A-Rod almost made a bone-headed base running mistake also. But I think it was good to see, they were so into the game they were almost forgetting fundamentals because they wanted to win so bad.
We really have Ichiro to thank. First, he very lazily threw the ball into second when Matsui tagged (Putz gave him the evil eye after that one). Then he lost Molina’s double in the sun. I think he’s going to catch some heat in the SEA papers tomorrow. McClaren should as well for bringing in Rhodes again.
Keith.
I don’t think you fail to run a ball out, because you think it may be caught. Generally Molina hustle as best as his body allows, but winners don’t let up because they think.
Dang it. I get home just a couple of minutes too late…looks like the game just ended.
Kershaw debuting for the Dodgers right now, sick stuff
Laura,
I personally loved that look by the putz, Itchy row is good but lazy i think.
can you all post some post-game commentary…we are in the middle of a movie and they won’t let me change the channel…
“But I think it was good to see, they were so into the game they were almost forgetting fundamentals because they wanted to win so bad.”
huh?
Molina was just on the radio and said that he thought Ichiro would catch the ball, but that it just sailed.
Forgetting fundamentals would seem to be the opposite of good to me, but hey, to each their own
I really dont think it matters about the money or the contract, I think Ichiro really wants out of Seattle.
Maybe he’s pulling a Vince Carter ala Toronto.
Itchy row was the reason they were in the game as much as they were, but he has to shoulder the bone butt play allowing matsui to second that should never happen at least without a throw. lazy player.
Laura, Ichiro was running full speed for that ball. It practically went 385 feet. You can’t run full speed for a semi-line drive like that and then be able to follow it the whole time. Impossible. If they want Ichiro to prevent balls like that from falling then they should probably make him a pitcher because there’s no one to blame for that ball not being caught besides the pitcher.
The reason why baseball will not be in Olympic Games after 2008 is the ump, whose subjective and unilateral judgement over the strike zone controls the game. Today is the example. Wang should have not issued 4 walks resulting in his ERs if not for some critical calls. Today’s ump sucks.
i think ichiro just lost the ball in the high sky. it didnt even make the warning track. watching a great player underperform while his team collapses around him, where have i seen that before?
best play of the game for me was matsui tagging on cano’s fly ball, that guy is so freakin heads-up!
great game!
Well, Yanks are out of the cellar in the AL East.
Now that distinction belongs to Baltimore.
Hopefaully, we never have to revisit that during this season.
“If they want Ichiro to prevent balls like that from falling then they should probably make him a pitcher because there’s no one to blame for that ball not being caught besides the pitcher.”
I watched the replay on that 4 times and it looked to me like Ichiro didn’t see the ball. Neither did the guy in RF as he stopped short of it.
Seattle’s cross-country flight will see them pull themselves together just in time to put the whammy to Boston.
Molina realized he wasn’t going to catch it at the very end, thats what he was referring to. That ball hung up there forever, and probably should have been caught. Molina was quite obviously dogging it at first, it happens. Do you actually think that Molina was thinking, “Oh, Mariano Rivera is our closer, I don’t need to run” as he was jogging to 1st? Delusional.
whatever sui has in his tank, you always get out of him. smart, aggressive, and never quits. happy he is in NY.
sweet win
Laura, you’re missing my point. When you’re running full speed towards a wall, how can you do that while also watching a line drive? Ichiro’s back was to the ball the whole time he was running. Don’t be deceived by the fact he was close to the ball when it dropped. It was a hard hit ball and Ichiro had to have his back to it the whole run and then he would have to pick it up at the end and still make a dive.
“watching a great player underperform while his team collapses around him, where have i seen that before?”
HF –
Don’t make fun of the Mets like that!!!
yeah, the tag and go by matsui, is what normally separates yankees from wannabe’s.
Ichiro was caught playing in so that he could throw out Matsui on a base hit.
Molina tagged the ball and it tailed away; Game!
The phrase “true Yankee” is overdone sometimes (I’ve done it too), and it’s usually reserved for players that come out of the system or at least are an integral part in winning a Championship, but Matsui has been pure class since he joined the team, I would call him a true Yankee.
What he does in his home theater is his own business.
Don’t think joe needs to scold molina, he knows better bet he doesn’t do it again.
And wow, Manny Being Manny just had a Manny Moment. Misplayed a tough long fly ball and watched it pop out of his glove. Athletic on 3rd with none out.
gotta agree with you Nick. he is the real deal and consistently too.
oh Willie
rover, I agree. I just think Molina got so caught up in the moment he didn’t even think of running, just like A-Rod did.
The phrase “True Yankee” is awful. You should be embarrassed.
And the A’s take the 2-1 lead!
David.
Yeah, we all know stuff like that happens and we all know they know better too. Just happy it didn’t lead to a loss. personally molina has done a good job, glad he is here.
lower case keith, I am not embarrassed yet but I will take your suggestion under advisement.
Betemit returns to the Yanks tomorrow was hitting .360 in SWB rehab, Gardner continues to hit, there is just too much to like about him 2 for 3, R, BB
man I just wish a crazed Oakland fan with a razor blade just force into the field and perform a Sweeney Todd on Youkilis or Ortiz.
Im not thrilled about betemit in pinstripes, he hasn’t fulfilled his end of the deal, yet anyway.
What is with the ugly homocidal fantasy posts today?
here we go again
guess one of those bosux, spoiling his celebration
two sites i won’t visit
Which is more eye opening: Astros putting up 6 runs in 4 IP against Hamels, or the Phillies returning with a backhand of 15 runs so far (5-run 6th and 6-run 7th included)?
the backhand Blargh
?
lol now some loser is using my name. What a hack.
I hope this person realizes that his or her IP address is not a mystery to LuHud. Sheesh.
This is the way this team should be playing! I can be happy now. Man, can you imagine this team without the presence of Arod.. since he came back we have been so much better.
Meanwhile, bases loaded, none out for the A’s as Leser’s pitch count rises.
I hope Madden is watching that game!
And Jack Hannahan comes back from an 0-2 count to get a 2-rbi single, 4-1 A’s, still none out!
I wanna know the explanation that ump told Joe G
wang didnt have his best stuff.. and probably shouldnt have been in after 100 pitches (which is when he gave up the last 2 runs).. i assume he was in only cause the yanks were down..
but i still think he did a good job keeping the game inline.
i think ichiro really wants out of sea and is playing to be traded… i wouldnt mind if the yanks got him on the cheap.
Hmm, Carmona’s out for 4 weeks with strained left hip
And Kobayashi gave up the losing run today (Rangers beat Indians 2-1 in 10 innings)
Sucks for Cleveland
“i think ichiro really wants out of sea and is playing to be traded… i wouldnt mind if the yanks got him on the cheap.”
no chance and fills absolutely no need, LHB how many lefties don’t we have, speedster, we have one in AAA that can do it too. Ichiro would cost alot if traded.
As for the Cleveland game Ben Francisco screwed up big time in that game.
Well if an Angel mailed anyone, it wasn’t me.
You trolls are too stupid to even know I’m female.
Assuming I’m male, is that a form of racism?
Or just a sexist pig kind of assumption?
Trisha wrote: “If anyone else would want to admit it, is anyone else ever moved to tears (in a good way) watching the Yanks sometimes, or watching particular plays?”
You hinted that this was a “loser statement,” and it’s not. I could call you a “girl,” but never a loser.
Seriously, it was a great game and it was great to see. The second half of last year’s regular season was another one that almost brought tears to my eyes. After all the Yanks had been through. … Heck, the ’96 World Series was a real joy.
Just read the recap; ouch, from routine single to rolling under him to the wall. Between that and the homer ruled as double, not the best of weeks for Francisco.
Aaron Cook CG 4 hits the Mets
“FIRE WILLIE WATCH 08′” bar now at level orange
Manny Being Manny the other way, now it’s only 4-3 A’s and threatening more.
Hmm, Aaron Cook’s having an excellent year; 3.06 era (148 era+) prior to today…a complete game shutout certainly helps him
…and sucks for Willie
you can tell by Joe G’s answer that he does not like Dustin Perdroia
Brandon:
What did he say about Pedroia?
Rat Boy is an appropriate name for that punk BoSux maroon !
a fan wrote him on how Pedroia is more gritty and more of a gamer than Robi and Bobby and why can’t the Yankees have players like that again, Joe G responded Pedroia doesn’t have as much discipline as Bobby, Bobby hussels and stretched put singles for doubles, and on Ped being a better fielder than Robi, Joe said that’s not true Robi fields just fine and he does dive for balls he’s watched him since ST and believes the best of Robi is soon to come…(that’s the best I can do in recap right now)
Why was Joe G being asked about Pedroia?
Oh on his show. I see.
I assume that fan loves the Ecksteins and Erstads of the world, lo.
Good win today!
just got back from the game…
every Yankee fan must have been out of town. 8th inning, Abreu is up during what turned out to be the turning point of the game, and what does the crowd do….the wave. about eight or nine times as well. even sections 37 and 39 of the bleachers (i was looking right atcha from the nosebleeds.)
c’mon, fans!
is there any national league team out there who we can trick into thinking that Shelley Duncan is a viable starting major league option?
great game. Wang hung in there, Edwar continues to look great, and the offense came through when it needed to. we’ll go for six tomorrow with Rasner on the mound.
Oh boy..
So I guess Willie watch 2008 is in full effect. Tomorrow will be interesting
What a thing of beauty to watch Jack Cust hit a two-run shot off Javier Lopez to give the A’s a 6-3 lead in the bottom of the 7th in Oakland.
Ah life is good!
To the good poster who was offended that anyone would mention rooting against the Red Sox before the Yankees got back to .500, you can come out from under your bed now, the coast is clear.
YAY Oakland!
James Cooper continues to hit for Tampa, is Trenton coming soon for his destination ?
(Wow, this is unbelievable. The lohud blog censor will not allow a word that begins with the letter F and rhymes with “catty”! I tried to post something using that word for about 20 minutes, using it as Ortiz’ first name, and it refused to do it. So when you read this post and see “F’Ortiz”, know that the F stands for that word that rhymes with catty!)
What a thing of beauty to watch Keith Foulke strike out F’Ortiz!
Jackson starts today out w/ a 2B
Trisha,
Ah, that is a thing of beauty…the only thing better is watching the Yankees win!
Dynasty – you got it, absolutely and unequivocally.
I don’t know if you are watching this game, but boy is Julio Lugo awful in the field. I cannot imagine how he would be pilloried on this forum if he was ours!
Manager Dave Miley saids expect changes in Scranton roster
wow he doesn’t sound happy
There is more reasons than just how bad he is in the field to pick on Lugo for too.
Its like a bonus.
BTW Melancon starts on Tuesday for 2 or 3 innings, the rain shortened McCutchen makeup game
Angel -
Chase Wright is going for a shoulder MRI. Stinks for him…As it is there’s a logjam at AAA. Missing time could allow even more guys to pass him at AA. He was having a pretty good year. Maybe a move to the pen in his future.
Warlock Hairs Ramirez or Obese Poopi with the grand slam to win it?
“Whatever the moves, Miley isn’t happy. His team is struggling and seems hell bent on doing something about it.”
miley doesn’t decide who goes up or down , and his main job is to develop players.
without knowing more, im a bit puzzled with his attitude.
he had better be careful or the change will be him.
i don’t think the yankees are developing him for the managers role in new york.
And that’s the sweep! I hope you were taking notes on the flight home, Mariners.
Quiz: what team has the best ERA in the AL?
Part 2: Who did they just sweep???????
SA-WEET!!!!!
Joe Girardi is upset about Pedroia because he wishes he would wear his horn rimmed eyeglasses on the field instead of contact lenses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD_bqXMO5aY
Just heard Pete is going to be on WFAN with Lori 8 o’clock hour. Do yo thang Pete.
whozat apparently pitching hasn’t been a problem for SWB I think Greg Porter might soon be released, he’s been a disappointment, Ransom has been what he is a AAA/AAAA player w/ some HR pop, Jason Browne stinks, Nick Green .094 in last 10 games leads the team w/ errors (9) Ransom is 2nd w/ (6)….Miley sounds like he knows AA is about to promote or push some position players to AAA maybe it’s Corona and Curtis what do you think
Oakland sweeps Boston.
Jorge Steinbrenner (the long lost third brother) – When you wrote “Wang hung in there” I laughed really hard out loud.
There is a reason guys like Green and Ransom are at Triple A. it is because they aren’t good enough.
Boston’s on a losing streak while we’re on a winning one…
Gotta love it!
Go Yanks!
Nick Green stinks vs RHP but vs LHP has an OPS of 1.109 …IDK
So the next time Joba is pitching is Wed or maybe Tues?
Nice job Oakland!
Pete-
Be prepared for 21 Joba questions.
Make sure you point out the options we have in the system later in the season. Hopefully Russo and Francesa are listening so they can catch a clue. Quote the sick (updated) stats of Cox, Robertson, and Melancon. 3 names Bitter Bill Madden may want to research before he writes his articles.
Be a gentleman with Lori.
So what do you guys think about Tampa? Are they the real deal or do you think they will fizzle out?
What do you perceive as their achilles’ heel?
Hey Vito! I will give you credit…you called this game a couple innings before the end of it when you guys were behind.
Boston seems to play poorly on the road, the are 11-17 on Road Games. Most of their wins come at Home.
Tampa Bay is similar, though they are a .500 team on the road right now.
Here’s hoping they both go on a long – extended road trip.
I don’t know about Joba, I was wondering that too. Not sure if the stretching out will mean every 5 days now or if it isn’t that regimented yet.
I hope the Mariners are clicking their ruby slippers on the plane and repeating “there’s no place like home… there’s no place like home….”
Peter-Can you please tell Lori to get a new job.
I am sorry, I just cannot take her on the WFAN. Her and Evan Roberts should get married. They both make my ears cry.
And that was my moment of being a big old meanie for today.
DiD, I think Tampa has a lot of talent, but teams haven’t been playing well in their Dome. I think that might come back to earth, but you never know. Look at the Rockies last year… and now look at them.
I think their road record is more like they should be, but they have been a lot tougher playing this year.
“Miley sounds like he knows AA is about to promote or push some position players to AAA maybe it’s Corona and Curtis what do you think”
You got me. I think you’re reading too much into it. Randy as well. Miley’s team is playing like crap and making a lot of errors. It’s not Gardner and Eric Duncan that are killing the team with these errors, it’s AAA vets. Maybe some of them are gonna get dumped or benched. It’ll probably be mostly from within…Porter gone, Carson getting more time…stuff like that. Ensberg might be down there in a few days, or Gonzo tomorrow. So, I don’t think that Miley’s saying “F you, Yankees! I’m not going to develop the players you’re telling me to develop!”, Randy. He’s going to stick some bums back on his bench and try some other bums.
And maybe Phillips or Traber will go as well. Horne’s gotta be coming back soon, they’ll need room for him.
“So what do you guys think about Tampa? Are they the real deal or do you think they will fizzle out?”
I don’t know what to make of TB. I am certainly hoping they fizzle out. But I do think they will be annoying for a while.
I’ll get to work on some TB Rays voodoo dolls.
“So the next time Joba is pitching is Wed or maybe Tues?”
I think I heard Tuesday? I suspect it’ll depend. Tuesday is Ian’s day? And weds is Andy? Right?
There should be adequate opportunity in either. Andy will probably go 6, Ian 5-6. Joba could certainly throw 45-55 pitches over three innings.
I wonder who weighs less, the 1995 Mo or the 2007 Edwar?
It definitely feels great for the Yankees to have a comeback win. You develop a sense of toughness and knowledge that you can bounce back when the chips are down. McLaren made a huge mistake when he brought in Arthur Rhodes. He has to know that the Yankees always get the best of Rhodes.
I feel like the Rays will hang around through the next month or two, but fade out and end up winning 80 to 85 games. I would be worried about the long term durability of Scott Kazmir in the rotation. I’m also unsure about how Troy Percival can hold up. His velocity is still decent, but he had to retire once because of arm trouble. Let the buyer beware.
Yup whozat-Tues is Mr. Kennedy and Wed is Andy.
I guess we will eventually find out when later.
I hope Joba can go on Tuesday, odds are still better for Andy to go longer into a game than Kennedy. And maybe IPK won’t feel the same amount of pressure knowing he only needs to go 5 or 6 innings.
BTW reading into what Cashman said about Gardner not coming up because he is a LHB
I pose this to the Yankee FO, if the other options are Bernie Castro or Justin Christian
Castro a swithhitter vs LHP a .536 OPS no offense but that’s not what we need
Christian a RHB vs LHP a .787 OPS could be a better option
but Gardner is going to make it tough w/ a 1.113 OPS vs LHP his OPS vs RHP is .746 (decent) to pass him up.
Hey..ya never know…maybe we will get a no-no outta IPK on Tues?
(no I am not drunk..a gal can dream..right?)
ER – combined i don’t think they’re 250
S.A., if IPK pitches a no-no or even a no-no into the 7th, I will buy a case of IPK candy bars — as soon as they make them.
Mo ’95 + Edwar ’09 > Papi – Dominican Happy Juice
Hahaha!
Just got home to find out that the Yankees came back to win. And to top it off, Boston loses! And we’re not in last place anymore. And Boston’s not in first. I guess that’s why they play the games.
oh my lord. There is a mets fan on WFAN actually crying right now.
are you serious SA dammit and missed it
whozat-
i actually don’t much about miley, but it just seemed like a lot of attitude for a minor league manager. of course miley was a major league manager so maybe that’s a factor. some minor league managers get so caught up in winning they forget their main job is development. on the other hand there’s something to be said about teaching players how to win.
the yankees have a lot of coaches and managers that are from other organizations so i’d expect some disagreements on direction from time to time. overall the direction seems pretty focused. i will say that most of the players at triple are there so the blue chippers have someone to play with. but there are surprises, so all the players have a shot if they’ve made it that far.
and I missed it
*
Pete Abe is going to be on at 8:00 pm EDT? Or when?
Seriously Brandon. It was some lady.
Oh my lord. Just sad.
Just got back from the Rays game. Outstanding game. When I saw the Yanks win on the scoreboard I stood and cheered. Got some dirty looks from the Rays fans, all three of them, Ha!
Seriously, the Trop was only half full if that. The folks down here have a young and exciting team and they are not supporting them, yet.
The Rays will be very tough for the Yanks to beat for the foreseeable future. I am starting to get the feeling about the Rays that I did about the Mets in 1969.
Edwar Gonzalez continues to hit XBH w/ RISP his OPS vs RHP should rise a bit.
Please, the Rays have some good young players, but is there a Tom Seaver or Nolan Ryan on that squad?
Nick-I think he is gonna be 8pm EDT. Haven’t heard Lori mention it yet though. I might have missed it.
Thanks, I’ll try to find WFAN on the interweb and listen in.
be back later guys.
Yeah..just go to WFAN.com and there is a listen live button so you can listen in.
Great win today true believers. Just catching up on the game now. What a perfect weekend. Day game tomorrow in Baltimore. Back to .500, all is well.
By the way, my sleeper team and current 2nd favorite team is the Oakland A’s. Beane to me, has got to be the best in the business. That team is as good as ever. They are deep at every position, great starters in the minors, great bullpen, good outfielders. I’m not saying they will be there in the end, but that team is fun to watch.
Nick in SF,
I don’t know if you were around for the ’69 season or not. I was.
Ryan was a minor player on that team. He had yet to find the consistency that he would after he went to the Angels.
Seaver was dominant and Koosman and Gentry were above average pitchers.
Kazmir has the potential to be dominant. Shields is struggling some this year but can be above average if he spots the fastball properly. I watched Garza the other day and he has the best stuff on the staff.
So while I am not saying there is a Seaver on the Rays staff, their starting pitchers potentially rank with the best in the AL. They and the excellent work they are getting fornt their bullpen are the reason this team is 10 games over .500. Oh and BTW they are tied for the best record in baseball.
My point is that teams underestimate them at their peril.
Oh nice. The Phoenix Mars Lander has made it to Mars safely
yanksrule57, you’re right, my knowledge of the ’69 Mets is superficial at best. It’s obviously pretty easy for me to predict that the Rays won’t be there in October, so no big courage there, but we can agree that they’re in a better position than they’ve ever been and have an exciting young team.
But let’s see where they are by the break.
“Shields is struggling some this year but can be above average if he spots the fastball properly.”
Shields is struggling? He’s got a 3:1 K:BB ratio, a pair of CG shutouts (against the Sox and Angels), and he actually often goes pretty deep into games. I don’t think you can classify him as struggling. He’s legit and good.
Ok, the WFAN gal just teased the Pete Abe segment, should be coming up after the break.
“some minor league managers get so caught up in winning they forget their main job is development. ”
The yanks fired Bill Masse their AA manager in 2006 for exactly this.
He complained about Phil Hughes innings/ pitch limit because it was “hurting” their chances of winning. And in general, Masse, was supposedly chaffing at the developmental program the team had in place for their blue chip pitchers.
Masse was fired immediately after the season and replaced by Tony Franklin.
Dave Miley may not like what’s happening at AAA but he’s not going to be making any significant personnel or development decisions. AAA has a lot of journeymen as position players so perhaps he could shuffle things there but it’s not like he’s going to or could decide to bench Brett Gardner or something like that.
Great win today.
mat is so cute!
I’ll put it to you all this way……if the Yankees were to fall short this year, I’d have a passing interest in the Rays. It’s good to see that team finally start putting the pieces together.
I like to see teams learn to walk before they run. I think Tampa will probably fall short this year, but the days of taking them lightly are officially over.
and, um, yes, Wang hung in there.