Matsui plays a key role in win
-
- May
- 25
Watched the last few innings of the game today and came away impressed with Hideki Matsui.
When he pinch hit in the 8th inning, Matsui grounded to the pitcher but ran hard to first. As a result, perhaps, J.J. Putz fumbled around with the throw after making a diving stop. That led to an error and a run scoring.
When Robinson Cano’s sacrifice fly scored the tying run, Matsui was paying attention and tagged up from first on Ichiro. By getting to second, he was in position to score when Jose Molina’s double fell in.
Matsui is not very fast. But he’s one of the smartest players in the game. Meanwhile, the guy sits at his locker after every game with enough ice on his knees to chill a case of Rolling Rock. Sprinting to second is probably not his idea of holiday weekend fun.
Today was the first late-inning comeback for the Yankees all season and should serve as the impetus for more of the same.
Now that they’re playing well, they’re also in position to do some serious damage. Check out the schedule coming up:
at Baltimore (3)
at Minnesota (3)
Toronto (3)
KC (4)
at Oakland (3)
at Houston (3)
SD (3)
Cincy (3)
at Pittsburgh (3)
By the time they head to Shea Stadiium on June 27, the Yankees could be closing in on being 10 games over .500. You get the sense now that the train is coming.
This entry was posted
on Sunday, May 25th, 2008 at 8:11 pm by Peter Abraham.
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looks good. seeing oakland and houston back to back is the only thing that looks like it could get a bit hairy. those are two hot teams. i mean, oakland just swept boston.
I agree Peter, in fact I wrote the same thing on Sunday. 35 easy games in a row, A Rod coming back, good time to fatten up on the schedule. SJ44 disagreed with me and said just because it happenned before it won’t necesarily happen again. He’s right, but I like being right too. In fact I predicted a 43-36 record by the next Mets series on 6/27. So 7 games over vs. your 10. Enjoy it Yankee fans, no better way to start summer.
Calm down Pete. They can’t beat Baltimore. They can’t beat KC. They might win a game at Oakland and Toronto. Factor in their pitching and they will go 3-4 games under .500 of the schedule you just posted.
atta boy russ. Stay positive.
at Houston (3)
SD (3)
Cincy (3)
at Pittsburgh (3)
that is lethal! but i bet all AL teams have a stretch of the like
Pete Abe is coming up in this next segment, I think.
yeah.. I heard Lori screech that Pete was coming up.
Good luck Peter!
SA, what is Yanks record against Baltimore and KC this year? I rest my case.
Yanks NEVER to well out west. Wang has stunk past few outings. Cano still swings at every first pitch he sees.
if only russ would really rest his case.
I never like to count my chickens before they hatch, because they always come home to roost!
Mixed metaphors aside, you’ve got to like (love) the way the Yankees have played the last 5 games. If they continue, they have a great chance to win the majority of their upcoming series. Now that they are back .500, they can concentrate on winning series. I’ll take a consistant 2/3, 3/4, 2/4, 3/5 any day.
I only got to watch today’s game in bits and pieces, but did get to see the bottom of the 8th, fortuitously. All day long my daughter was keeping us updated with the score; never felt like this one was over. I think it was my Yankee party pack!
Yes russ. Their record against them so far this year is a 100% indication of what will happen when we play them again. In fact, we shouldn’t even bother playing the games. Mark them down already as losses.
Please continue being the ray of sunshine that you are.
what station?
Here’s Peter!
mel-WFAN
What Matsui did just shows what happens when you use that extra bit of hustle. He’s a true professional who always gives his best. Hustling to second on Robbie’s sac fly provided another boost and set everything up for Jose Molina. It was clear though, that J.J. Putz shouldn’t have tried to throw Matsui out at first. Nobody throws out the Speed Demon known as Hideki Matsui.
She loves to say “blog”.
Let us know what Pete says, I can’t pick up that station very well from Tennessee.
It’s really hard to believe that people thought Matsui was a disposable player in the off season.
Year in and out he’s an .850+ OPS guy. That’s hard to find even for corner outfielders.
I’m listening in SF, it’s at http://www.wfan.com
talking about Matsui hustling. Stuff going right for the yankees.
How much of this is the Yankees catching fire and the Mariners be crappy?
Peter says-about 50/50. Upcoming schedule looking good
Hi Pete,
did you see Russ’s nasty posts. I’ll bet you regret deleting my limerick.
Maybe Pete regrets saying they should trade matsui for spare parts. Never give up on talent.
VRSCE, Pete is reading your limerick on the air right now.
I love Russ.
sa,
thnx
OK, how many times did Lori bring up the Mets while interviewing Pete? What relevance do their struggles have to do with the Yankees?
Eh, nice to hear, but Pete didn’t really say anything he hasn’t written in more depth on here. But I’m glad to have heard it.
How can a guy as negative as Russ post on a Yankee blog day after day? Being so negative and downbeat has to wear on you.
Nick relax. It was a little interview. Give it a rest.
Nothing really new. But good job Peter.
That was pathetic how she kept bringing up the Mets while a Yankee reporter was on.
Ok, Anderson Hunt, I’m sorry I got too excited for you there. I’ll tone it down. Sheesh.
CB- Part of the appeal about Matsui is that he is consistent like the stat that you mentioned about his OPS, but for me the thing that is great about him is that he gets the job done and he does it without any glitz or any showmanship. He’s not out there to boast or showboat or anything else. He brings the lunch pail, puts the time in, and contributes night in and night out. He’s not a sideshow. I don’t see the circus of “Hideki being Hideki” in his future, let’s put it that way.
LAST YEAR WE WENT ON THE WST COAST TRIP AND PEOPLE SAID WE WILL WIN BUT WE GOT KILLED SO I WOULDNT BE EXCITED
Nick in SF
Ha ha,thanks, perhaps I shall do another.
I sure am glad Russ left the building. I was starting to get depressed.
Matsui is a solid baseball player. Only his outfield play is lacking..but at least he hustles.
I have watched Ichiro since he started with Seattle in 2001. He was always a smart player with guile, hustle, and humility. During the two series with the Yankees, there has been a noticeable change in his demeanor. He seems to “hotdog” every catch that he makes, shows much more emotion to questionable strike calls, and shows frustration to his teammates when things don’t go just right for him.
The little dribbler in front of the plate during today’s first atbat, the fly ball double by Molina that he seemed to lope after and then look at his right fielder in frustration.
Has success spoiled Suzuki?
I’m with Russ. The Mayans predicted that a comet will plunge to Earth in 2012. We’re doomed, I tell you!
No, I’m about to start spreading the news. To go 10 games over .500, they need to take 20 of the next 30. That’s .667 baseball, and this team is capable of that easily, especially with Joba ready to start soon. If Wang stays steady and Pettite wakes up, the Yanks will be fien.
I feel like purchasing a nice gift for Darrell Rasner, but what does he need with stuff I bought? He’s pulling in almost $400,ooo/year.
Way too optimistic Pete.
Also, Jeter is already hurt, and Matsui could get hurt soon. And the scouts are figuring out Rasner. Not to mention Igawang.
“OK, how many times did Lori bring up the Mets while interviewing Pete? What relevance do their struggles have to do with the Yankees?”
I think she is a Mets fan..so she might be a bit traumatized right now. But yeah, she didn’t need to bring up the Mets that many times.
Boy, this board sure has a few bright little rays of sunshine, doesn’t it? The Mariners are in a tailspin that isn’t likely to end soon, yes, but it’s also telling that the offense did start to click. Now that A-Rod’s back, the lineup is much more lethal because Girardi has an easier time splitting up the lefties. The pitching hasn’t been too bad, either.
I bring this up again as maybe she will read when she returns and perhaps get a giggle but since Rebecca has been in Italy the Yanks are 5-0 any chance we can take up a collection to keep her there a while.
gayle, if you want to test your theory, I’d be willing to accept a trip to Italy, and if the Yanks keep winning, I can stay there.
Yep, ER’s still a racist
What do you know? For the 4th year in a row all the Quitters will be made fools again. How’s it feel jumping off the bandwagon again and made to look foolish?
This board is made up of one too many Johnny Negative’s. but hey, thats the internet for you. positive fans have LIVES.
did anyone else’s smile just get bigger and bigger reading the end of that post?? Toronto is a good team though – SOLID starting pitching, that’s no cupcake series. Oakland is playing well too after sweeping the red sox + that’s on the road for us…. But I’m DEFINITELY looking forward to this little stretch of games coming up!! GO YANKS!!
ER, Russ, Nick in SF, we got all the Optimists here! They can really brighten anyones night after 5 wins a row.
Would it help if Wang started pitching better and maybe someone or two could step up to become reliable in the pen?
Yes.
I for one am excited. See how much chnages in baseball? Last Sunday you had 90% saying the season was over and rebuild. Now a week later things are looking up.
What more do you guys want? We just won 5 in a row. Yea, ER Matsui could get injured, just like every other guy on every other team. We can’t sit here and speculate one of our hottest hitters’ potential for injury. Baltimore and KC aren’t the teams they were in the first two weeks of the season, just like the Yankees aren’t. All the pessimists, we were 9 1/2 out and 4 under .500 this time last year. I’m pretty sure we were playing in October. I think we are in great shape thus far this year, considering all the injuries that we’ve had to endure.
Very funny.
Good win today.
Only got to see bits and pieces of the game but knowing it was a comeback I figured the in game comments would be amusing up to the 8th inning. I just perused through them quickly and may I say you all didn’t disappoint.
Why would you answer ER?
“maybe someone or two could step up to become reliable in the pen?”
Someone like…Edwar Ramirez and/or Jose Veras?
Also…Wang has had a whole TWO starts in a row that weren’t good. He had 5 good-great starts before that. This one…not sure why Girardi left him in so long. The way he was going, I’d have taken him out after 6. Maybe after the first baserunner got on in the seventh.
He’s walking more guys this year than I’d like to see, personally. But, yes, it’d help if he returned to the form he was showing earlier this month.
ok – Cincy and San Diego are in the bottom of the 17th inning…craziness!
Top of the 18th now!
Wang has had 3 starts in a row where he hasn’t been good. Luckily for him we came back today.
And if Girardi takes him out and someone gives up everyone says leave him in. Girardi would rather lose with his best.
“Wang has had 3 starts in a row where he hasn’t been good.”
Er, 2 starts before today was 7 IP/1 run…that’s not good?
Good baserunning Freel.
Pete and Yankees fans:
Going back to Alfredo Aceves, the mexican RHP at AA Trenton, who we were commenting about some days ago, pitched today. The result? A complete shutout game. He only faced 30 batters. Alfredo allowed just 4 hits (all of them singles), no walks, and 6 K’s. 89 pitches thrown, and just 22 of them were not strikes.This was the first 9 inning complete shutout game of any Esatern League pitcher this season.
I think sooner or later, we’ll see Alfredo pitching in Yankee Stadium.
he lost that game didn’t he??
So it couldn’t have been that good.
Thanks for the Aceves update, Jorge. Where in Mexico are you?
And he got shelled by that vaunted Indian lineup the game before.
Not a good month for Wang.
“he lost that game didn’t he??
So it couldn’t have been that good.”
If you agree that Beckett’s 7 IP/2 runs yesterday (and Boston lost) was also not good for the same reason, then we’ll agree that you’re not BSing
If Wang is the biggest worry, then I’ll be happy.
What the hell do I care about Beckett’s game yesterday and how in the heck is that even relevant discussing Wang’s bad month of May??
Reasonable discussions aren’t par for the course here.
Watching Baltimore play today I saw a stark contrast between their demeanor and that of the Rays. The O’s looked lifeless and other than Roberts and Huff, did not show me anything today.
One consolation for me today was seeing Roberts is a big a pain in the **s to the Rays that he is to the Yanks.
I would not be surprised to see a Yanks sweep.
Jorge watch out. Sj may try to kill you for going on his turf of updating from websites about minor leaguers.
Didn’t the Orioles have it tied in the 9th and lose on a walk off? How is that lifeless???
Wang was so-so today
He had a horrible outing versus the Mets
Before that were the games with Cleveland and TB where he gave up a total of 4 runs combined and the Yankees bats were missing. We both lost those games and Wang pitched great.
The April 16th game vs. Boston wasn’t the greatest for him. In fact it was pretty horrible. But we won that game.
So let’s see:
2 totally craptastic games
1 eh game
Everything else was pretty much good job Wang, get the man some runs
That’s why you don’t get into back and forths here, Bossman. Not worth it.
The people who usually bring down Wang are also the kind who canonize Beckett as the infallible saint of aces, despite his mediocre season this year.
They’re also inconsistent with their standards; Wang is bashed for meeting a particular criteria. Beckett is absolved of all sins for meeting the same.
5 runs in 6 innings against the leagues worst team is so-so?
That still doesn’t answer my question Blargh about why are you even bringing it up and even comparing the two. I guess we’ll leave it at that since making sense isn’t the strong suit.
Blargh is one of the people who think Wang is better than Beckett. Conveniently overlooking last years postseason which I guess means nothing to him.
“And he got shelled by that vaunted Indian lineup the game before.
Not a good month for Wang.”
Are you talking about the game vs. the Indians(and Cliff Lee) on May 7th when he went 7 innings and gave up 3 runs? (That’s getting shelled?)
Ah, right, run away when you can’t be consistent
Looks like the 15-5 run has started in earnest….Just a week ago not very many here agreed with me…There were several who felt that it was just a matter of time…..The rotation needs to have at least two solid turns….Rasner and Kennedy’s back to back outings were the jump start that the club needed….I just hope Mussina can last till May 30th or so before the wheels completely come off…
I’ll take care, Nate
Nick: I live in Mérida, Yucatán, which is about 180 miles west from Cancún. In fact, I am the reader Pete was referring to, when he said “a reader from Cancún, México wrote to me about a pitcher named Alfredo Aceves”. Maybe because all the people have heard about Cancún, but not so many people have heard about Mérida, was the reason why Pete said I was from Cancún. I’ve emailed him back telling him that I’m from Mérida, located at the North-East of the Yucatán peninsula.
Ansky:
That is an argument that I wouldn’t want anything to do with. beckett is a better pitcher than Wang but they are two completely different pitchers. Beckett is a classic K guy. Hard thrower. Good curve. Wang is classic sinker. pitch to contact. Both good. But Beckett is great.
Great because of his 2 post seasons which are damn near legendary. Even Sox haters have to give that one up.
Wang defenders I guess will go to Win and Losses but that is not how you rank a pitcher in 2008.
Blargh:
We are talking Wang and you go out of your way to bring up Beckett for really no reason since I didn’t say anything about him and had no reason to. Why?? i still don’t get the logic.
If I were to go by last year’s postseason, then Peavy (the one game playoff against Colorado to get into the playoffs; the epitome of the entire season is down to one game scenario), Sabathia, and Carmona were also bad.
If I were to go career postseason, Peavy/Sabathia/Carmona still suck, Jeff Weaver is just about as good as Johan Santana, and Garland/Buehrle/Contreras are better than Santana.
Jorge,
I hope your countrymen is the real deal and is pitching in the Bronx soon.
Jorge, my parents have a place near Zihuatanejo that I visit, but that’s about as far away from Cancun as can be. Please keep those Aceves updates coming, and I hope you post on the blog more often, it’s always good to hear from international Yankee fans. And don’t take “Nate” too seriously, there are some bitter folks on here tonight.
Ok poll question.
Which game is over first.
Cindy-SD or LA-CHW
Bossman: Your claim is that 7 IP/1 run is bad if the team lost the game
By that logic, would you then agree that Beckett going 7 IP/2 runs and his team losing would also be a bad game?
Quick check if your logic is consistent
How did Carmona do against the Yankees, Blargh?
The post season is what puts a guy like Beckett on a different plane than guys like Wang and Peavy. Some guys have it ala Gibson, Koufax, Beckett. Some guys don’t.
But how did you spin this into Beckett when discussin Wang? I’m semi impressed.
“Conveniently overlooking last years postseason which I guess means nothing to him.”
Unless you can come up with a way to turn back the clock, why not focus on what is and what can be rather than focus on what was. Turning the page is something the players need to do to be successful yet fans seem to have such a hard time with it.
And did I ever say that beckett had a good game in a loss????
Please check back and apologize for putting words in my mouth, Blargh.
I don’t think any pitcher would think he did his job in a loss. No matter how great they look and did. Beckett had a game this yr where he K’d 13 and gave up a run vs the Rays and lost. I guarantee if you ask him how he did he’d say terrible.
wins and losses aren’t a good judge of judging a pitcher. This is 2008. read some baseball prospectus.
How do we know whether Wang will or won’t be a good career postseason pitcher at this stage? Based on that one series vs. Cleveland? We don’t.
Baseball is a game of pasts and traditions, pat. You are judged on October. Peavy was terrible in October. Mo is going to the Hall based on October.
Oh wow. The game is in the bottom of the 18th? eek
We don’t know what inner fire and drive Wang has til he gets another chance. I think he has the makings of a fine October pitcher. Hopefully, we’ll find out this yr. But you cannot compare him or really anyone in the game to Beckett at this point. Who is the best maybe ever at this point.
Sd wins it
Wang will make up for his dismal ‘07 post season. But post season success in NY means more than reg season success. Example Rodriguez, Alex.
Ansky
pasts and traditions over a career, not over a day, month or a single year.
It is the Yankees. You aren’t defined til you win a Series title. For better or worse. And Wang was putrid last yr.
B. Reed,
Having played organized sports for over 30 years, and watched for longer, I think I can tell when a team is showing enthusiasm and when they are going through the motions.
Yes the O’s had tied the game in the 9th, but as I said other than Roberts and Huff, they looked as if they were going through the motions. This has been a problem with that team for several years. They change managers and nothing changes. They get rid of Tejada and he becomes a spirited, team leader in Houston. There is a losing culture in Baltimore that requires a major shakeup to fix. If you remember when Mazilli was the manager they had a winning record into June. They fell apart, he got fired, and the losing has continued since absent a short burst here or there.
So I guess you are defending their stellar record of success the last ten years?
“pasts and traditions over a career, not over a day, month or a single year.”
And October success or failures make a career. You get remembered and you dont get many shots at it.
Bossman: Like I said, just checking if you were one of those hypocrites
Guess not; sorry, my apologies
Now as for how Carmona did against the Yankees; he pulled out a 9 IP/1 run effort; Cleveland won.
Then he followed up with a 4 IP/4 run effort in game 1 against Boston in the ALCS. Cleveland ultimately lost that one 10-3. Game 6, he goes 2 innings, pitches in the 3rd but pulled before making an out; gets charged for 7 runs. Cleveland got whacked there 12-2 in the end.
I forgot. Because you play intramurals you can see from your comfy chair and tv set what teams are playing hard and what teams phone it in. And to say a team that has it 4-4 in the 9th on the road is giving up is pretty out there.
Wang was dealing with a sore calf, so in my book he gets a pass for today. He did a great job last time vs Baltimore so I expect a recovery soon. The Yankees have a someone undocumented history of performing poorly after travelling west so I’m a bit nervous about the road trips, but I’m optimistic. 10 games over is a bit high for my expectations – I’d be happy with 7 or 8, but if they can do it, I’ll happily eat crow.
And Carmona and Sabathia have something to prove this year no matter how great their 2007 seasons were. Which were downright nasty. The game is all about October success and no one does that better than Beckett who is almost unhittable. Which pains me to say. He may not have 24-2 seasons during a reg season and his ERA may touch 4 but he really doesn’t mess around in big spots.
Hopefully Wang can join that club. And also Hughes and Joba and IPK and Brackman and whoever else we got ready to go.
I give a little pass today because he did gut it out without his best stuff. If he dodges that bullet in the 7th we are all raving about him. Game of inches.
Wanger can pitch like this every start if we win all his starts.
Russ and ER are right. Why don’t we just forfeit the next 30 games and get ready for July???
Just wanna see the Yanks win series. If we can do that, we will be in good shape.
B Reed
You obviously are out to pick a fight, sorry but I am not interested. Good night sir or ma’am.
When does Joba go next? Wed? 60 pitches?
“And October success or failures make a career.”
So a player who never has success in the post season, didn’t have a career? Ted Williams had 1 postseason appearance and batted .200. Mickey Mantle had multiple post season performances and a lifetime postseason batting average of .257. I would say both of them had pretty solid careers yet neither shined in the postseason.
I just like to call out the moronic statements. like you saying a team was giving up from that tv set of yours because you played intramurals for 30 years. you are the expert. Sorry Yanksrule57!
If you ask people in baseball, pat, they will say that Williams didn’t have as good a career as Joe D or the Mick or Mays because he didn’t do it in October even if he never had the chance. Same with Banks. Baseball is about October. Don’t shoot the messenger but it’s about World Series titles.
“wins and losses aren’t a good judge of judging a pitcher. This is 2008. read some baseball prospectus.”
And yet YOU are the one who defines a “good start” or a “bad start” based on the bottom line.
7IP, 1ER…we said it was good, you said it was bad…because they lost. You make no sense.
While it’s clear that W-L is not the be-all and end-all of evaluating a pitcher, it’s also true that K-rate doesn’t do it either. Wang has put up multiple seasons in a row where he has given up far fewer runs than average and pitched lots of innings. AND, he’s done this despite having a below-average defense behind him. As a result, he has won many games. He doesn’t fit the same mold as the vast majority of other excellent pitchers. However, he also doesn’t fit the mold of “classic” sinker-ball pitcher either. Those guys usually throw around 90-91. Wang throws 93-95 with his sinker. He’s not easy to categorize, and yet he generally keeps runs off the board and throws 6-7 innings a start.
Sounds like an excellent pitcher to me.
“Mickey Mantle had multiple post season performances and a lifetime postseason batting average of .257.”
Ahem. Mickey won 12 pennants and 7 World Series titles. I think he did his part don’t ya think???
He still holds the records for most World Series home runs (18), RBIs (40), runs (42), walks (43), extra-base hits (26), and total bases (123).
Terrible job, pat, bringing Mantle into your October means nothing argument.
I believe Aerosmith said it best:
“Train kept-a rollin’ all night long.”
Here they come. Was mocked for putting it in my handle, but it looks like first to worst is slowly but surely coming around!
Sox sweot by Oak. Love it!
Wins and losses is an archaic form of measuring pitchers. If you want to argue it, fine with me. But you should at least read some Baseball Prospectus before you embarrass yourself.
Koko, you forgot the WS record for post-game beers.
Oh wait, you’re the person who punked me. Forget it.
Adn please “whozat”, don’t put words in my mouth saying that I think Wang is a bad pitcher.
I think he’s a good pitcher like I stated many times and I think he’ll eventually have the post season hardware to end all arguments like this.
Nick, you want a hug? Let’s hug.
“he lost that game didn’t he??
So it couldn’t have been that good.”
Was that a different Bossman?
Wangs really excellent if you leave out October 2007.
Gah, read the wrong final score (and game number) for Carmona’s first game against Boston in ALCS. Carmona pitched game 2. He still gave up 4 runs in 4 innings; final score was 13-6, Cleveland won that one. Cleveland scored 7 in the top of the 11th that game, yowza.
Game 6’s score is correct.
Game 1 in which Boston won 10-3 had Sabathia; he went 4.3 innings while giving up 8 runs. To complete 2007 ALCS notes, Sabathia went 6 innings/4 runs in game 5; Boston won 7-1.
Koko, I think we’re going to be ok, your earlier irrational statement just made me curious.
The pitchers themselves aren’t concerned with anything other than team wins. So I think if you ask Beckett or Wang what they thought of 7 IP’s and 2 runs they’d say terrible if the team lost.
Which is how pitchers who are competitive should be, right? You think Wang was happy after that TB game?
Austin Jackson: 1 for 3, 2B, BB
Edwar Gonzalez: 2 for 4 w/ 2 2B, RBI
Alfredo Aceves IDK who this guy is but he is clearly being fast tracked 9 IP, 0 ER, 4 H, 0 BB, 6 K’s (W) GO/AO 13-8
1 – 0 CG
Nick in SF-
What Sushi place in SF were you referring to the other night, was it Sushi Zone?
What was irrational about it Nick? You were in the Negative Dept. You made you got lumped in with ER and Russ??
I apologize.
How can one argue for Wang over Beckett with a straight face? Please be kidding but that is crazy talk. And I am a huge Yankee fan.
How was I in the negative department? ER and Russ are basically trolls who root against the Yanks—when have I ever been like that?
And Cleveland was one win away from the World Series til Beckett showed up in Game 5, on the road and completely shut down the Indians and the Cy Young winner.
Which is what a guy like Beckett lives for. Wang had that same chance but at home and didn’t do the job.
Blargh, I respect your opinion here but the more you rant on about it the less sense you are making.
Do you not think Beckett is good?? I dont get it
Nick is now in the Negative department?
Nick-do you have some negative, invisible twin posting on here? Or did I miss something.
Ok, Nick, here the hug. Russ’ing you was over the line.
Don’t shoot the messenger but it’s about World Series titles.
Guess I’ll agree to disagree. World Series titles are the goal and postseason play can enhance a persons legend but I don’t believe postseason success singularly defines a players career.
If I were lumped in with Russ, I’d kill myself.
B. Reed,
Ok, I forgive you for not reading my previous posts. I was at the Tampa/Balt game today. I saw first hand what the teams looked like and their demeanor.
You seem to want to pop off and insult people because of whatever bug is up your snoot. That’s fine but I’ve been coming to this site and posting for quite a while now and people like you generally don’t last long.
Buddy, I was referring to Hama-Ko, it’s ok Carl Street west of Cole. It’s sort of a controversial place because service can be slow and the woman who works all the tables can be a little touchy with strangers. Here’s the yelp info:
http://tinyurl.com/4s2ryq
“And Carmona and Sabathia have something to prove this year no matter how great their 2007 seasons were. Which were downright nasty. The game is all about October success and no one does that better than Beckett who is almost unhittable. Which pains me to say. He may not have 24-2 seasons during a reg season and his ERA may touch 4 but he really doesn’t mess around in big spots.
Hopefully Wang can join that club. And also Hughes and Joba and IPK and Brackman and whoever else we got ready to go.”
So, based on 2006, Jeff Weaver is an f-ing stud. We need to sign that guy, there’s our postseason ace.
trying to decide whats funnier.
Saying Beckett is bad or someone bashing the post season record of the Mick.
I go Mick.
Nick we will have to see what happens when Rebecca gets back if the record changes we may have to send over a replacement and you are now at the top of the list lol.
I would personally like to thank Bobby ABreu and JOhnny Damon for getting things going again and stopping my 2 week loss in Fantasy lague. Much like the Yankees when they get goingso does my team lol.
Well V is talking nonsense. You can’t differentiate between Weaver and Becketts post season?
I feel for your sanity.
S.A., actually, someone did post a few things using my name “Nick in SF” during the game thread, and one of them was about how the Yanks are past their prime or something, and the same poster imitated some other people, but it’s all been deleted by now. Unless it was one of those, I have no idea what Koko is thinking of, if anything.
Countdown for Jason Lane has begun.
6 Days til he can opt out of minor league deal.
Chad Jennings thinks he might be called up to take Ensbergs’ spot…...but heres a ?.....isnt Lane and Duncan the same type of player???Both are RF-LF-1B-DH righty swinging players.
Tough crowd tonight,,,,And with a five winning streak …..
On pats speed dial right now
Buckner
mitch williams
ralph branca
and donnie moore
Bossman: I think that Beckett is a fantastic post-season pitcher, but erratic during the regular season, as he goes from average (sometimes below average) to great, back and forth.
This is a case where I’m more frustrated by how he’s placed on a pedestal by some people here over the past year and is spoken about as if he can do nothing wrong. Usually this is done in contrast to a ‘Wang sucks’ message. Other times it’s done in a discussion about top pitchers (IMO, Brandon Webb is better as he always has great seasons).
“How can one argue for Wang over Beckett with a straight face? Please be kidding but that is crazy talk. And I am a huge Yankee fan.”
Beckett? He of the 4.43 ERA?
I think I’d take Wainwright from that STL team. He’s not bad right?
Brandon
Going to the Trenton DH on Tuesday….Melancon starting the top of the 4TH Inning of game 1 at 600PM.
V,
Please tell us why you think Wang is better than Beckett. We need a laugh. because cutting and pasting is not really putting forth an opinion.
Oooohhh. I see.
Someone stole your identity before.
Dude, you’ve made it on here.
Ichiro told the Japanese media that after hitting the home run, he ran the bases more slowly than he usually did, thinking it might be the last time to play in this stadium. ”....and that thought kept occurring to me during the game, but I feel too exhausted to make any further comment beyond what I just said.”
There must be lots of visiting teams’ players who feel the same way, while they play the games at Yankees Stadium this year.
No sane Yankee fan would take Wang over Beckett. 10% aren’t sane and most post here though. So you are playing with fire.
Do I have to post the post season ERA’s of Beckett and Wang to end this charade?
Ichiro should have never resigned with Seattle. The Yankees would have made him a HUGE offer.
Not bashing Mick. Just pointing out that even the best player can have a subpar postseason appearance. Over multiple appearnaces, people will play to their norm. Singling out one series and judging peoples entire career on it is faulty.
“Well V is talking nonsense. You can’t differentiate between Weaver and Becketts post season?
I feel for your sanity.”
Weaver was downright amazing in that postseason. A-Mazing. 2.43 ERA. Kept his team in
everygame. I’m a Cardinals fan (was a Cards’ fan before I was a Yankees’ fan).Beckett’s been damn good in the postseason too. But if you’re going to judge the entire worth of a pitcher on 5 postseason starts in 2003 and 4 postseason starts in 2007, you have to do the same for Jeff Weaver, who is
nota good picher.People like “V” usually cannot take the heat when it comes time to put up.
Hopefully Joba will be getting compared to Beckett and Wang to Dice K before too long.
“I’m a Cardinals fan (was a Cards’ fan before I was a Yankees’ fan).”
That is the most curious statement I’ve ever read here. Welcome to the team but what???
If we’re comparing Wang and Beckett, we also have to compare cultural impact. Wang is the hero of an entire nation. The Taiwan stock market rallies after his wins.
Beckett is the national hero of Blisterville, MA.
Ok, Beckett has had a great run so far, he also has a few years on Wang. The baseball comparison is unnecessary. Blargh brought it up because someone else brought it up earlier. Beckett has had a great career so far. Wang is having a great start to his career.
UtilityMan I want reports
Nick in SF-
I have been there & it’s quite good. I love how you can’t order any extra sushi after you have placed your order.
You have to go to Sushi Zone, it’s the best sushi I have ever had in my life. It’s on Pearl St just off Market. You have to get there really early, like 5pm to eat in a reasonable time. There are 2 booths & a sushi bar that seats 8 or so.
Now we should forget Beckett’s all time postseason record because Jeff Weaver won a World Series with the Cards?
It’s not like Weaver doesn’t have ace level talent. This isn’t some career minor leaguer coming thru. He put it all together for a stretch under the best pitching coach in the game. Blame him for chasing the money. Maybe if he stays there in STL hes winning 20 games.
But that is a straw man argument.
“V,
Please tell us why you think Wang is better than Beckett. We need a laugh. because cutting and pasting is not really putting forth an opinion.”
I didn’t say Wang is better than Beckett. I said Beckett is not better than Wang. It’s not my fault you can’t tell the difference.
If you’re going to say Wang sucks because he gave up 5 runs today, then you also have to say Beckett sucks due to his two outings previous to yesterday.
Some f-ing consistency in analysis would be nice.
Beckett gets a pass on his GARBAGE 6 ER outings because he’s your typical ‘ace’. 90% fastball, high Ks, has a bunch of 7 IP 0-2 ER outings. His 6 IP 7 ER outings are ignored, however.
Beckett is in his prime. What you see is what you get. He’s going to be damn good for 4-5 years before he enters his decline, etc.
Wang isn’t done developing. As we see this year, he’s transforming from a 90% sinkerballer to a more complete pitcher with sliders and 4-seamers. I fully expect his K/9 to improve from last year, and for him to continue to keep his team in the game with quality start after quality start, which I PREFER over a Jekyll & Hyde CG shutout then 6 IP 7 ER guy.
“People like “V†usually cannot take the heat when it comes time to put up.”
People like “Jammer” are trolls worth ignoring.
“Ok, Beckett has had a great run so far, he also has a few years on Wang. The baseball comparison is unnecessary. Blargh brought it up because someone else brought it up earlier. Beckett has had a great career so far. Wang is having a great start to his career.”
Beckett and Wang are both 28 yrs old.
“That is the most curious statement I’ve ever read here. Welcome to the team but what???”
I grew up in Missouri as a Cards’ fan. I moved to New Jersey and married a lifelong Yankees’ fan…. the rest is history
I guess people are “trolls” when you don’t agree with them. Why is it like that here?
“I grew up in Missouri as a Cards’ fan. I moved to New Jersey and married a lifelong Yankees’ fan…. the rest is history”
Way to be passionate dude.
I married a Sox fan and moved to Mass. I didn’t switch. She wears the pants obviously
Just to make sense, I do
notthink you can judge a pitcher solely on 9 career postseason starts (which Beckett has).If you disagree, well, there’s no way we’re going to see eye to eye.
9 starts is not a big enough sample for me to declare one pitcher to be a god among men.
Buddy, I’ve read about Sushi Zone at the whole “get there a half hour before they open and wait or else wait two hours” deal. I’ll try it out one of these days.
I’m lucky, because the first time I went to Hama-Ko I was a guest of people that were favorites of the Hama-Ko couple. And now they like my whole family, especially my brother Peter. It’s hilarious, if I go in I’m “Peter-brother” and my dad is “Peter-father” etc. You just have to go with the flow there and not be in a hurry. I’ve seen people get stressed out by the service and it’s not pretty.
Throwing out the troll line is what some use here when they can’t argue coherently back and forth.
““I grew up in Missouri as a Cards’ fan. I moved to New Jersey and married a lifelong Yankees’ fan…. the rest is historyâ€
Way to be passionate dude.
I married a Sox fan and moved to Mass. I didn’t switch. She wears the pants obviously”
Um, d00d? I’m a fan of both. It’s not like the Cardinals face the Yankees more than once every few years.
Nick meant that Beckett has more years of experience in the majors than Wang (Beckett has 4 more years)
“I guess people are “trolls†when you don’t agree with them. Why is it like that here?”
I call people ‘trolls’ when they’re more interested in lambasting other posters than actually intelligently discussing baseball.
“Just to make sense, I do
notthink you can judge a pitcher solely on 9 career postseason starts (which Beckett has).If you disagree, well, there’s no way we’re going to see eye to eye.
9 starts is not a big enough sample for me to declare one pitcher to be a god among men.”
The postseason means nothing to you??? Then you should return that Yankee hat. Because that is what it is all about. Titles.
I guess we’ll disagree, V. Because to me it is all about winning in October. And unfortunately for us, Beckett is the best pitcher in the game.
Jammer, they might both be the same age, but who has significantly more service time in the bigs? Who said anything about age?
““Just to make sense, I do
notthink you can judge a pitcher solely on 9 career postseason starts (which Beckett has).If you disagree, well, there’s no way we’re going to see eye to eye.
9 starts is not a big enough sample for me to declare one pitcher to be a god among men.â€
The postseason means nothing to you??? Then you should return that Yankee hat. Because that is what it is all about. Titles.”
Bull$***.
That’s as simply as I can put it.
The postseason is as fluky as it gets. The Cardinals were NOT the best team in the playoffs in 2006. Yet they won it all. IMO, they WERE the best team in 2004…...
:shrug:
I’m sorry that I’m not a 1996-2000 Yankees’ ‘fan’.
If you had one start to make with the season on the line hasn’t Beckett proven enough that he gets that start???
2003 NLCS with their backs against the wall vs Chi. Win.
2003 world series clincher in Yankee stadium (tear)
2007 in cle game 5 vs sabathia
V, if you don’t think postseason is important to Yankee fans than you better get that Cardinal gear on.
“If you had one start to make with the season on the line hasn’t Beckett proven enough that he gets that start???
2003 NLCS with their backs against the wall vs Chi. Win.
2003 world series clincher in Yankee stadium (tear)
2007 in cle game 5 vs sabathia”
I’d rather have Halladay or Webb, who are
muchmore consistent.I don’t believe in ‘clutch’.
“If you had one start to make with the season on the line hasn’t Beckett proven enough that he gets that start???”
You would have to be brain dead to pick any other pitcher in the game and maybe all time at this point.
Yes, he has been that good.
“V, if you don’t think postseason is important to Yankee fans than you better get that Cardinal gear on.”
I don’t care about Yankee fans. I think a lot of Yankee fans are idiots.
““If you had one start to make with the season on the line hasn’t Beckett proven enough that he gets that start???â€
You would have to be brain dead to pick any other pitcher in the game and maybe all time at this point.
Yes, he has been that good.”
Ok, we’ll see. Just wait til he has a 6 IP 7 ER outing, and I can laugh.
““If you had one start to make with the season on the line hasn’t Beckett proven enough that he gets that start???â€
You would have to be brain dead to pick any other pitcher in the game and maybe all time at this point.
Yes, he has been that good.”
Ok, we’ll see. Just wait til he has a 6 IP 7 ER outing, and I can laugh.
Don’t believe in clutch? Fine. I think his post season performances kinda make him the choice. Not like he’s done it once or twice. But every start.
The postseason is the highest pressure and best competition we have. This isn’t a Sat vs Oakland in May.
And winning in the postseason sort of, maybe, a little bit, requires GETTING TO the postseason, which Beckett has only successfully done twice…
Come on. V would want Mitch Williams closing and Buckner in for defense in the 9th and Donnie Moore warming up just in case in his one game playoff. Don’t worry though. Beckett is starting for the other team and giving up no runs.
“Don’t believe in clutch? Fine. I think his post season performances kinda make him the choice. Not like he’s done it once or twice. But every start.
The postseason is the highest pressure and best competition we have. This isn’t a Sat vs Oakland in May.”
:shrug:
By the same token, you’d take Jeff Weaver and Johan Santana as a wash?
I disagree.
I do
notbelieve in ‘clutch’, and I want my best pitcher on the mound. Mybestmost consistentpitcher on the mound.“Come on. V would want Mitch Williams closing and Buckner in for defense in the 9th and Donnie Moore warming up just in case in his one game playoff. Don’t worry though. Beckett is starting for the other team and giving up no runs.”
Do you change names every 5 minutes?
You make it seem like Becketts regular season is garbage.
Win-Loss 81-55
Earned run average 3.76
Strikeouts 1006
wang
Win-Loss 52-20
Earned Run Average 3.72
Strikeouts 266
Not too shabby huh???
At NO POINT have I argued that Wang >>> Beckett.
I merely deny that Beckett >>> Wang.
“You make it seem like Becketts regular season is garbage.
Win-Loss 81-55
Earned run average 3.76
Strikeouts 1006
wang
Win-Loss 52-20
Earned Run Average 3.72
Strikeouts 266
Not too shabby huh???”
Given that Wang’s pitched in the AL East and Beckett spent a chunk of time in the NL East….
So, are you saying that Wang ~= Beckett?
Why are you wasting your time, people, arguing with a moron who is trashing Beckett’s resume??
That is not an argument a Yankee fan or any baseball thinker wants to get into because it is superlative. No better postseason pitcher maybe ever at this point.
It is a waste of time arguing with someone who thinks the post season is a fluke and doesn’t matter. Reread that last sentence and wonder where the guy comes from.
Bossman:
Well put. You can’t fight the dumb.
Even Yank fans have to admit Beckett is in a league of his own.
Just got home. Beautiful day, beautiful game!! Only bad thing, I have a farmers tan!!
Can I tell you I wish they’d throw everyone out of the stadium who does the wave! Critical situation in the game, and all of a sudden they start to do the wave!! PAY ATTENTION TO THE GAME!!
KoKO@10:17pm..
Thanks for posting the bit on the Mick, I was about to do it myself. He was my all time favorite player. 27/08?
“Why are you wasting your time, people, arguing with a moron who is trashing Beckett’s resume??
That is not an argument a Yankee fan or any baseball thinker wants to get into because it is superlative. No better postseason pitcher maybe ever at this point.
It is a waste of time arguing with someone who thinks the post season is a fluke and doesn’t matter. Reread that last sentence and wonder where the guy comes from.”
I’d say you’re the moron.
Beckett has NINE postseason starts. NINE.
Wang has FOUR.
I need a ‘little’ more sample before I close the book.
Beckett’s regular seasons practically alternate between average and great, so his career era constantly goes up and down.
Nah, V, you were worse. You said Beckett isn’t good.
And you made me a Sox hater defend Beckett. you should be ashamed of yourself and go back to the red colors you worse so well.
And you need to take a course in Yankee fandom. We value October here.
“Bossman:
Well put. You can’t fight the dumb.
Even Yank fans have to admit Beckett is in a league of his own.”
A league of his own?
If you’re going to argue that Beckett >>> Webb, Santana, Peavy, Halladay, I’m going to really have to laugh.
“Nah, V, you were worse. You said Beckett isn’t good.
And you made me a Sox hater defend Beckett. you should be ashamed of yourself and go back to the red colors you worse so well.
And you need to take a course in Yankee fandom. We value October here.”
Where did I say he isn’t good?
He’s damn good.
But he’s not a god among pitchers because of NINE career postseason starts.
Beckett has NINE postseason starts. NINE.
Wang has FOUR.
I need a ‘little’ more sample before I close the book.
and Becketts 9 pressure packed starts have been historically great. While Wangs have been historically bad. What more do you need? Does Beckett need 32 starts in October???
“Beckett has NINE postseason starts. NINE.
Wang has FOUR.
I need a ‘little’ more sample before I close the book.
and Becketts 9 pressure packed starts have been historically great. While Wangs have been historically bad. What more do you need? Does Beckett need 32 starts in October???”
Um, Wang had two bad starts, in 2007. His starts in 2005 and 2006 were alright.
“But he’s not a god among pitchers because of NINE career postseason starts.”
Actually that is EXACTLY why he is a God among pitchers. You are defined by October success or failures. He is the best October pitcher in the last 40 years. This game is all about playoff performances. And Beckett is already an all timer. Yes, hes a God among pitchers.
Wang needs 10 god like to starts in october to be even in the conversation here.
Are you serious, V????? Please say you are trying to rile people. Please.
Man, I was just checking Pettitte’s postseason starts on retrosheet – I though he was much better than it looks like he was (35 career postseason starts, btw).
Thank you, Buddins. Some people ie V don’t get that.
““But he’s not a god among pitchers because of NINE career postseason starts.â€
Actually that is EXACTLY why he is a God among pitchers. You are defined by October success or failures. He is the best October pitcher in the last 40 years. This game is all about playoff performances. And Beckett is already an all timer. Yes, hes a God among pitchers.”
Lol, you guys really are idiots. Truly.
If he puts together a
Lest we forget:
http://static.baseballtoaster.com/blogs/u/bronxbanter/2008/522/0001/Mantle_in_Yankees_Circle_on_Knee_1080.jpg
Wang would kill for Beckett’s October record. His 19 wins are forgotten after his disaster against Cle.
That was a ‘less than 1.00 ERA for another 10 starts, I’ll listen to you’.
Imagine Mantle with an extra round of playoffs??? Forget every record.
Beckett’s second career postseason start: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2003/B10070CHN2003.htm
Other than that, he’s been damn good. But even Mr. God Beckett has failed.
“That was a ‘less than 1.00 ERA for another 10 starts, I’ll listen to you’.”
It’s like to talking to the wall.
The Braves DFA (released) Brayan Pena Cashman, Mark Newman, Bill Eppler whoever the F’ reads this go get him ! 26 yrs. old catcher .333/.333/.500 vs LHP and is a switch hitter !
Beckett’s second career postseason start: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2003/B10070CHN2003.htm
Other than that, he’s been damn good. But even Mr. God Beckett has failed.
How did he fail? The team won.
““That was a ‘less than 1.00 ERA for another 10 starts, I’ll listen to you’.â€
It’s like to talking to the wall.”
Ditto.
I don’t believe in ‘clutch’. You do. I don’t believe 9 starts = end all be all in analyzing a pitcher. I don’t believe that the postseason defines a pitcher in absence of the regular season. I value consistency over high variance.
You disagree.
“How did he fail? The team won.”
LOL!!!!1!one!
And we come full circle.
Did he suck, or did he not suck?
It kills me to say Beckett is a God but he proved it last season. The guy is flat out awesome when it counts.
Wang needs to step up and luckily for him he’ll get plenty of shots.
Say, if Beckett is deified for his postseason glory (which I’ll admit is pretty good as in his 10 starts, his team has won 8 times, but I still won’t deify him), then does Guidry get deified too? In his 10 postseason starts, the Yankees won 8 times.
This guy really saying Beckett stinks and his postseason means nada????
You can read anything on Pete’s blog!
9 post season starts isn’t a small sample size. You ever follow baseball before your wife took your balls?
I think Gator is God worthy. Same with El Duque and Rivera.
Gah, Beckett’s team is 7-2 when he starts; the 8th win I counted was him relieving innings 5-8
V:
You are going to need more than one start where he got hit pretty well to back your point. He did come back in that series and throw what? A 2 hitter?
How did Wang do after his bad game 1 vs CLe?
Anyone see the new Joe Torre commercial he did out in LA? Check it out on YouTube it’s pretty funny!
W = great game
L = bad game
We would all take Beckett on the Yankees today.
Anyone that says different shouldn’t be listened to.
Thank you Q B. I don’t know what this argument is even about. At this point in his career, Beckett has proven himself to have thus far been a great pitcher when given the chance in the postseason. At this point in his career, Wang hasn’t. Who else should be compare Wang to? Sandy Koufax? Don Drysdale? Bob Gibson?
Wang was the ace of the staff to start the season, but the pressure is off, the Ras-inator is on board now.
Ollie: You’re right, El Duque was also rediculous in the postseason
In his 14 starts, his team won 12 times
I can see how the Wang people would have an argument if Wang didn’t crap the bed vs Cle in 2 starts last yr. But wow. You can’t defend it.
Rasner has this team onhis back.
We will be having this convo next yr saying Rasner is the new Beckett.
“This guy really saying Beckett stinks and his postseason means nada????
You can read anything on Pete’s blog!”
I NEVER f-ing said that he stinks.
Never. Not once.
Ever.
Anyone who says I did is an absolute imbecile, a troll, or worse.
Yes, he’s damn good. Yes, I’d love to have him on my team.
But I’d rather have Webb, Santana, Peavy, or Halladay.
And I don’t think that he’s 10x better than Wang, like some seem to.
How do you think Weaver got a huge contract after 2006? Suppan? Pavano? Lowe? Because of October success. If Beckett was on the open market tomorrow he’d get 25 mill a yr.
17 months from now Rasner will be riding in his second World Series parade and Beckett will be watching on TV from Blisterville. But that won’t diminish what he’s accomplished this far.
V…
There are about 9/10 pitchers that have much better rating than Beckett in WS history. How can you rate him as the best/one of the best? Jack Billingham era 0.36, Whitey Ford 10 wins(also, most scoreless innings in row, just to name two of them. 27/08?
Cashman seriously when does an OPS of .833 vs LHP fall into your lap the Braves made a hiccup go get Pena now, I understand the Moeller love but this kid can hit.
“9 post season starts isn’t a small sample size. You ever follow baseball before your wife took your balls?”
Nine starts is a small sample size, postseason or not.
You ever follow statistics? At all?
“Anyone who says I did is an absolute imbecile, a troll, or worse.”
There ya go. if you disagree with “V” you are a troll.
old ranger – it’s 28/09…. don’t sell the team short
“V…
There are about 9/10 pitchers that have much better rating than Beckett in WS history. How can you rate him as the best/one of the best? Jack Billingham era 0.36, Whitey Ford 10 wins(also, most scoreless innings in row, just to name two of them. 27/08?”
You’re rating his performance, so far.
If he’s going to retire at 28, then yes, he’ll go down as an amazing postseason pitcher.
I don’t think you can use 9 postseason starts in isolation from his regular season to determine that he’s going to remain a postseason stud from here on out.
Andy Pettitte has 35 postseason starts. Some were downright amazing. Some were stinkers for the ages. Yet he still goes down as a pretty good postseason pitcher….
“But I’d rather have Webb, Santana, Peavy, or Halladay.”
You obviously didn’t watch Oct 2007. Or Oct 2003. Peavy was awful. Santana is average. Halladay will never get there in canada.
And Beckett? Only the best pitcher we have ever seen in October.
Beckett a GOD? Have you people all lost your minds? 9 post season starts…..n-i-n-e. If he is such a god, what’s wrong with him this year?
Red Sox fans are so dying to have a “god” that they just throw that around hoping it’ll stick. They do the same with the “dynasty” word too, after a win in 2004, then not making the playoffs, then sleepwalking into #2 against the Rockies. Its hilarious.
Talk to me after 24 more WS then we can talk about gods.
““Anyone who says I did is an absolute imbecile, a troll, or worse.â€
There ya go. if you disagree with “V†you are a troll.”
Again, repeating statements I didn’t make. Good job.
I’ll repeat for the more dense, if you think that I said