Game 53: Yankees at Orioles
-
- May
- 28
YANKEES
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Giambi 1B
Cano 2B
Moeller C
Cabrera CF
Pettitte LHP
ORIOLES
Roberts 2B
Mora 3B
Markakis RF
Millar 1B
Huff DH
Hernandez C
Payton LF
Jones CF
Cintron SS
Guthrie RHP
Andy Pettitte (4-5, 4.27) vs. the Baltimore hitters.
Jeremy Guthrie (2-5, 3.62) vs. the New York hitters.
and just for kicks …
Jobamania vs. the Baltimore hitters
Notes: RHP Chris Britton is here. This is now the 876th time he has been called up this season. … The Yankees are 3-5 against the Orioles this season. … Jason Giambi (10 for 20, 6 runs, 4 RBI) and Godzilla (12 of 23, 11 runs, 6 RBI) are on fire. Alex Rodriguez (4 of 21, 2 RBI) not so much. … Johnny Damon has a seven-game hit streak (13 of 29, 6 RBI). … It’s been interrupted by two DL stints. But Wilson Betemit has a 6-game hit streak (8 of 26).
The Joba Plan: Joba is scheduled for 50-55 pitches. If he doesn’t get to that many in the game, he’ll finish off his work in the bullpen. He has thrown four innings in his last two outings, going 35 and then 40 pitches.
Back later with updates.
UPDATE ON IAN KENNEDY
5:58 p.m.: Some good injury news for a change for the Yankees. Kennedy does not have a strained lat muscle according to Joe Girardi. An MRI showed he has bursitis under his scapula. That can be controlled with medication and he could be throwing again in a week. He’s on the DL but he could be back after 15 days.
ANOTHER UPDATE ON IAN KENNEDY
6:16 p.m.: Joe Girardi knows baseball. Not medicine. According to Brian Cashman, Kennedy does in fact have a strained lat muscle along with bursitis under the scapula. But there still does seem to be a chance he could be back after 15 days.
By the end of the night Kennedy might need a glass eye and a hip replacement.
UPDATE, 6:39 p.m.: The Yankees have lost seven straight extra-inning road games according to the Elias Sports Bureau. Two of them this season.
Meanwhile, the Orioles are going to have the Geico Cave Man throw out the first pitch. Apparently Mrs. Butterworth and the Maytag Repairman were unavailable. Remember when teams used to have old players throw out the first pitch and it was sort of special?
This is a cool stat. Jason Giambi has 187 homers as a Yankee and 187 as an Athletic.
The Tuesday starter is TBA. Could be Pettitte, could be Joba, could be a call-up.
UPDATE, 8:03 p.m.: Jason Giambi now has 188 homers as a Yankee, one more than he had in Oakland. That’s also two balls on Eutaw Street in as many days.
UPDATE, 8:12 p.m.: A pigeon just flew into the pressbox, causing a bit of a ruckus. Kyle Farnsworth, alas, was in the bullpen. He would have known what to do. And by that I mean he would have killed it.
UPDATE, 8:38 p.m.: Pettitte has thrown 72 pitches through five innings. One more for the big lefty than three for Joba?
UPDATE, 9:02 p.m.: Here you go, Joba. Get seven outs. You have 55 pitches to spread around.
UPDATE, 9:07 p.m.: That’s 55 pitches for the game, Joba. Not this inning.
UPDATE, 9:12 p.m.: This is pretty interesting. Can Joba get through the next two innings with 42 pitches? It’s not a lock. The Yankees may need somebody to get an out of two.
UPDATE, 9:28 p.m.: This is staggering. A really good pitcher can pitch more than one inning. What a concept.
I have Chamberlain at 28 pitches. But I went to public school.
UPDATE, 9:32 p.m.: Mariano is warming up. Is that it for Joba?
UPDATE, 9:50 p.m.: The Yankees are making baseball history. Joba may be the first player ever to throw in the bullpen before and after his appearance in the game.
Given how he was going, I might have kept Chamberlain in the game. But managers are so tied to their closers these days, so you can’t blame Girardi. Ninth inning, two-run lead, use your closer. By the book.
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on Wednesday, May 28th, 2008 at 3:35 pm by Peter Abraham.
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No Melky stats? He needs to be sent down to AAA!
Today would of been the perfect day to give Jeter the golden boy the day off. They are off tomorrow so that would of been 2 days that it looks like he needs. I am surprised Girardi is playing him, or maybe he asked to play.
Should we assume Mo is unavailable? If so, it’s a good night for Joba to get his work.
Dear Yankee coaches and pitchers:
If you throw Millar off-speed pitches he whiffs every time
trust me I have lived in Boston for 6 years and watched that happen on a daily basis
CaptainsCorner,
Funny, Betemit is 1 for 1 (a homer) with a walk lifetime against Guthrie. I think you’re right!
I agree, Jeter should have a couple days off. But it would be a slap in the face after last night’s lousy play, so they won’t. Plus, I don’t have the feeling that anybody on the bench will do a better job. If Gonzales were still up, I’d wouldn’t mind watching smooth fielding at SS for a night, regardless of his bat.
my god what does Scott Patterson have to do …
Im sick of seeing Britton. He is another bumb like Hawkman and Ohlendorf. Id rather see someone with some talent and promise or just for kicks a lefty.
Britton eats innings
YES had an interesting statistic last night regarding Kennedy’s performance in the first inning. Apparently he fares much better against batters 1 through 3. Perhaps he would be a better relief pitcher? A scouting report on Kennedy: “Though his stuff isn’t great, his command makes him a deadly pitcher.” The report also said his curve and his slider are his weakest pitches. Given the amount of walks he has dished out this season, I cannot imagine we’ll see much more of IPK as a starter. That said, he seems like he could learn a lot from Mike Mussina. Hopefully the two will talk and Kennedy can re-establish his curveball.
I miss seeing the Jeter of old. This slower, shadow of his former self version is awful to watch. Last nights game was dreadful for all of that have given jeter a free pass before. Not anymore. He needs to step it up. If he’s injured, then sit down.
“Britton eats innings”
He eats a lot more than that.
Good game to keep the sound off. Kay is going to repeat that Joba is throwing 50-55 pitches about 50-55 times, and will update his pitch count every other pitch.
And Britton gets called up…and probably won’t be used yet again
(I don’t really have any expectations of him; I just find it weird that for how often he gets sent up and down, he remains relatively quite rarely used)
“Im sick of seeing Britton…Id rather see someone with some talent and promise or just for kicks a lefty.”
You never see Britton. You just always hear that he’s been either recalled/sent down. How can you be so against a guy that hasn’t even gotten a chance this year?
I agree, the Yankees probably don’t have Britton in their long term plans, but they must like something about him to continue recalling him whenever possible. Then again, he never plays once he gets up here, so that’s a head-scratcher.
Interesting factoid from the Star Ledger Blog:
“First baseman Ben Broussard, the former big-leaguer who yesterday joined Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, has a June 15 out in his contract.”
Not exactly a big window. He’s going to have to be on fire for the next 2 weeks in order to stick.
I decided before last night’s game that Hawkins should be subject to a four-run rule. That is, he can’t pitch in a game unless the Yanks are winning or losing by four or more runs. (There was no extra inning exemption, so I was quite upset to see him in the 11th inning last night, but I digress …)
For Britton, I propose a five-run rule. He’s fine in mop-up, but whenever he pitches in a close game, he does a great Hawkins impression. He blew two late games last year.
Man, Eiland sounded dead. Its got to be so frustrating to see guys you count on struggle so much.
We bend over backwards to search for answers but in reality, you can’t always find answers.
Sometimes, you just aren’t good enough no matter what you do.
Gotta keep grinding though and hope things change.
I think even Eiland is shocked at the struggles of some of these guys.
SJ44-Was Eiland on with Kay? Or with the two fools down the dial?
I’ll be back later people, Eiland couldn’t come up w/ one nice thing to say for Hawkins and Kennedy I’m sorry but Chris Britton coming up really pissed me off today, so I’m taking a long walk outside to clear my mind.
“Not exactly a big window. He’s going to have to be on fire for the next 2 weeks in order to stick.”
Doesn’t mean he will opt out though.
Only problem with that rule is, its tough to implement given the present state of the bullpen.
That means more work for Farnsworth, Ohlendorf, Ramirez and Veras. Not sure if that’s a good idea.
My rule? If you are a pitcher, pitch. I don’t care if its one inning, 5 innings, 2 pitches, 120 pitches. Go out, compete, and get the job done. No excuses.
You are not always going to have optimal situations to pitch. There have been plenty of nights when David Cone, Jimmy Key, Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera, etc haven’t felt right and got the job done.
I don’t care what their stats say, how they did last night, or anything else. Just go and pitch.
Often, I think pitchers think too much. Location, pitch count, pitch selection, all that stuff.
Just go out and pitch. If you do that, and you locate well, you can get the job done.
If these guys are too hung up on failing, they need to be off the team because its a game of failure. Gotta turn the page and move on.
“Eiland couldn’t come up w/ one nice thing to say for Hawkins and Kennedy”
That is disappointing…and a wee bit scary
Last night it looked like Olendorf’s sinker wasn’t sinking. He left fastballs over the plate and got crushed.
I don’t know what the deal is with Hawkins. He seems to be getting worse as the year goes on. Maybe he is tipping pitches? His stuff isn’t that bad.
Britton really couldn’t do much worse than these guys but as mentioned previously, he gets called up and then doesn’t pitch for a week. The Yanks haven’t really given him a fair chance.
so Hawkins and Ohlendorf with over 6 ERA’s with over 20 + innings stay. the reason is???
Cox has 14 innings in AA and AAA With a WHIP of .75…
That is one thing I cannot understand about the Yanks they give these guys; ensberg and hawkins and Ohlendorff so much rope it is a joke… These guys do not deserve to stay.. Duncan has hit the ball hard watch his AB’s Ensberg is a viewer of his AB’s…
Eiland whatever he said should stop whining and work with these guys. Edwar was a disaster last yr. how is he doing????
the yanks are playing with a 23 man roster…....Boston would chop these guys in a minute. Yes they do keep Timlin and should definitely cut him but he has history at least with the team, he has been a good player for them for years…
SJ, my rule was very tongue-in-cheek. Hawkins and Britton need not to be on the roster.
Hawkins was a fair, cheap flyer, but it didn’t work out. He’s awful. Britton is worse.
It’s too bad that Britton has no control over his destiny because if I were him, I’d ask to be released. It is ridiculous to keep calling up a guy you have absolutely no plan to use.
S.A.,
He was on with Kay.
Broussard was 3-3 with 2 doubles, a walk and 3 RBI last night in his first game for Scranton.
Brandon,
I thought he was more dismissive on Kennedy. I may be reading too much into it but, I get the feeling Girardi and Eiland aren’t huge Kennedy fans.
Hawkins? I don’t think they care enough about him to be dismissive! lol
Just the body language and comments I see and hear when Girardi and Eiland talk about him and watch him pitch leads me to that conclusion.
I don’t think they like nibblers and, at least this year, Ian is nibbling big time.
so they blew the hawkins signing he got 1 yr and $3.5 mill cut him..
this is not a Giambi contract…..
adios, PLEASE>>>
As far as I’m concerned, they made a mistake of bringing Kennedy up again. He had that good start but that was a freak accident. The alternative was probably Igawa, but so what, even he didn’t suck this bad by this time last year. At least IPK is on the DL, that means they won’t let Chamberlain bump the Yanks’ best starter (Rasner) out of the rotation.
Mitch,
I know. We have to have some kind of gizmo on here to denote tongue in cheek! lol
Thanks.
Maybe they will have it up on the 1050 website later so I can listen.
Laura, if you can get Britton to do that, please do! He’s so awful.
Was Eiland on a pre- or post-game show, SJ?
It really is unbelievable, and it’s got to be so frustrating for him – he’s the guy that brought the youngsters along at the minor league level and he was charged with continuing the process in the majors. No one could have imagined how everything has unfolded. Bumps and bruises a long the way? Growing pains? Yes, most of us were ready for that, expecting that. But this has been like someone came in and squashed every plan the Yankees had for this year, and as it turns out, probably next year as far as their starting pitching goes. Dark cloud overhead, like that cartoon character, what was his name? I think in L’il Abner.
I read a lot of the discussion in the prior posts. Again, I’ll say that no one—NO ONE—could have anticipated almost every single major impact player on this team either being injured or failing to produce, and all at the same time. Jeter failing to bunt last night? Not good, but most of the time he’s the guy who gets the job done. Let’s face it, last night that dark cloud was directly over Jeter’s head. ARod’s two errors – one was on Betemit, but the other? He’s been throwing bullets to 1st since he’s been back.
I think there are probably some changes that will be made, but it seems almost as if the changes will be for change’s sake. Are there any better pieces out there at this point? Unless they go back and undo some moves, i.e., trying to get Mientkiewicz and/or Phillips back. I never saw the point of letting either one go, because they were not replaced with anything much better. And they seemed to fit the team. Those moves really left me scratching my head.
I don’t like using 20/20 hindsight and it’s really not fair to say what should have/could have been done months ago. With information available at that time, moves were made to get some right-handed utility guys. None of them have really worked out. That’s a crap shoot. I mean Miguel Cairo didn’t do all that badly, you know?
So, going forward, you try and make changes and pick up pieces here and there based on the information available now. And you hope and cross your fingers that the dark cloud floats away and better times are ahead. Some of this is bad luck, some (okay, much) of it is bad play. But I still do not see this going on for the entire season. I also think its preposterous that whenever we fans compare the Yankees to other teams, we ALWAYS assume that things will get worse for the Yankees, but everyone else performs in a bubble where they will only get better and never make mistakes and have no injuries, etc., etc.
Boston has a good team, but they have also had some good luck, too. Let’s also remember that last season they had a handsome lead going into September and almost blew it. Now this is not last year, but I’m just sayin.
SJ,
Agreed. How about: -)
Ha ha.
How are people bad mouthing Britton? Is he the second coming? More than likely, no. But he hasn’t been given any sort of chance to prove he’s serviceable.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Chris%20Britton&pos=P&sid=t531&t=p_pbp&pid=461904
Check out things other than his name and his weight before you bash him.
Stuart,
Cox and Melancon are still building arm strength. They are a month away from being ready.
They aren’t strong enough yet to work back to back outings, especially at the ML level.
That’s why Melancon is throwing 4 innings in a game, 3 days off, then 2 innings again. They did the same with Cox in AA. Its the basic rehab work for TJ guys.
They will be up here soon enough. Probably by July 1 at the latest. Health permitting of course.
SJ44,
You may not have seen this post in the other thread, so here it is:
—-
SJ44,
Let me go through your post line by line:
“I don’t hate Giambi. I think he’s a functional DH. Not a good option at first.
HE IS 6TH IN THE AL IN OPS (AND 7TH IN SLG). HE IS NOT A FUNCTIONAL DH, HE IS AN ELITE HITTER, AS COUNTERSENSICAL AS THAT WOULD SEEM AT THIS POINT.
Is he worth 15 million? Nope. Youkilis isn’t making 13 million and is a better all around first baseman than Giambi.
YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS – YOUKILIS IS NOT A FA ACQUSITION. GREAT FOR THE SOX THAT THEY HAVE HIM ON THE CHEAP, BUT THAT’S NOT A FAIR COMPARISON TO MAKE.
If you are asking me which guy I’d rather have on the team, its Youkilis in a landslide.
THAT’S A STRAWMAN ANSWER – EVERYONE WOULD PREFER YOUKILIS FOR WHAT HE’S MAKING, BUT THAT’S NOT AN OPTION, IS IT?
Despite the stats of the moment, game on the line, who do you want at the plate, Jason Giambi or Manny Ramirez?
I mean, come one, Giambi isn’t in Ramirez’s overall class as a hitter. Even when he was a great player.
IF YOU GO BY OPS+, GIAMBI WAS A BETTER HITTER IN HIS PRIME.
THEIR BEST 5 OPS SEASONS ARE: A) FOR GIAMBI, 198, 187, 172, 161 and 153;
B) FOR RAMIREZ 186, 184, 165, 161 AND 160.
SO GIAMBI’S 3 BEST SEASONS WERE BETTER THAN RAMIREZ’S BEST THREE. THEY’RE TIED IN THEIR 4TH SEASON, AND RAMIREZ’ 5TH BEST IS BETTER THAN GIAMBI’S.
PERHAPS YOU MEANT CLUTCHINESS – THOUGH THAT’S AN ETHEREAL QUALITY, RAMIREZ IS PROBABLY BETTER AT CLUTCH THAN GIAMBI, BUT SO ARE MANY PLAYERS.
I don’t discount the 26 million they threw away in Japan for Igawa in my analysis. A lot of money to waste on a Single A pitcher, IMO.
I AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS. THOUGH ADMITTEDLY, SOME VALUE WAS SEEN IN IGAWA, SINCE THE YANKEES WERE NOT THE SOLE BIDDER.
This off-season was one in which the free agent pool was poor. There really couldn’t put that kind of money into any players worth the money they were seeking.
EXACTLY. PART OF THE REASON IS THE ONE I EXPLAINED TO CB, BUT GENERALLY, I LIKE THE FACT THAT YOU ARE ACCEPTING THAT CORRELATION DOES NOT IMPLY CAUSATION.
Perhaps the trade market could have been more fruitful or, and this gets back to scouting, they could have done a better job with bench options.
PERHAPS. AND PERHAPS NOT.
But, when you are saddled with bad contracts, getting the raising the payroll (ie, overpaying for bench help) becomes tough.
LOOK, ON SOME LEVEL OF COURSE IT IS BETTER NOT TO HAVE BAD CONTRACTS, AND OF COURSE THOSE BAD CONTRACTS AFFECT THINGS. BUT YOU ARE PASSING A SUPPOSITION (SUCH AS THE ONE I ANSWERED ABOVE WITH “PERHAPS. AND PERHAPS NOTâ€) AND PASSING IT OFF AS A FACT.
I’m just saying, once they get out from under the contracts they have following the season, I hope they don’t go back to their failed way of doing business.â€
I ALSO HOPE THE YANKEES ARE SMARTER IN THE WAY THEY DO BUSINESS, BUT I DON’T THINK WE AGREE ON WHAT THE MISTAKES ARE.
I THINK MITCH EXPLAINED WHAT CASHMAN IS DOING VERY WELL. GOING AFTER TWO FAs (AS OPPOSED TO ONE, WHICH YOU DON’T SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH) SHOULD NOT PREVENT THE YANKEES FROM BUILDING THE FARM SYSTEM OR TRADING PROSPECTS (OTHER THAN EXCESS ASSETS, SUCH AS RH ARMS, AS MENTIONED BY CB) FOR SHORT-TERM HELP.
I’ll bet anyone here five bucks that Britton never throws a pitch before he gets sent down again.
Actually, I think Britton will be around a bit this time, because there’s no obvious choice to bring up in his stead….
Wasn’t it Eiland who said of the 3 kids, Kennedy was the most polished??? I could’ve sworn that he (or someone in the org) said that during spring training when the “Generation Trey” was in full hype.
IPK was a nibbler last Sept too yet he had success so there might still be hope for him. Hawkins, not so much. I agree with those who say that Hawkins should go. Bye-bye.
SJ44 –
I think you’re dead-on about Eiland and Girardi not liking nibblers. Throw strikes, That’s all Girardi ever says. Ian was supposed to be a strike thrower. Like I said yesterday, sometimes things happen for a reason. Kennedy will now have an “opportunity” to rework his stuff in AAA and since he’s been injured there’ll be no hurry or guilt or whatever about bringing him up again too soon. However, I do understand them bringing him up over keeping Igawa up.
I guess they’re major disappointed in Kennedy because he hasn’t really shown what he showed all of last year and there’s no real reason for it. And there really is nothing to say.
just a coincidence, or is Pettitte being matched up with Moeller a lot lately?
“Cox has 14 innings in AA and AAA With a WHIP of .75… ”
14 whole innings?
You do realize that, bad as he is, Hawkins is expendable? He’s not in the Yankees long-term plans. If he bombs, so what?
You call up Cox and ruin him, you’ve ruined a guy you’ve got cheap for years.
Let him develop and be brought up when ready. 14 innings??!
SJ: Happen to know if teams have tried to frontload their offers and that players just don’t accept them? Or is backloading contracts just something managers go with immediately?
I’m assuming that frontloading a contract would make the backend of it easier to trade or DFA if necessary. Like Giambi’s contract for example; if you flip it around, he’d be making 8 or 9 million this year. He’d be a lot more palatable… (of course, would the early years of it have been as accepted if he was pulling in ~20 mil for the first few years?
)
Doreen
Eiland was on live with Kay on ESPN about an hour ago.
I didn’t think he came across as negative as SJ did. Just sounded matter of fact to me in saying guys who were pitching in Single A last year are going to have their bumps in the majors. Said he saw things he liked but bad pitches were made. Not giving up on anyone but “it is what it is”.
Sorry to bring this up again…but saw it in the other thread and saw it didn’t get any attention…nobody would take a chance on a guy like Harden? Is the asking price really going to be so high as to deter us or is it the fact that he has an injury history that scares people so much? I think that you have to overlook the injuries if the package to bring him here isn’t astronomical. Harden to me, is one of those gems of a find possibilities if things work out right
Thanks, pat. Nice to have a more ‘even-keeled’ review of what he said.
SJ and other pitching coach’s so do not pitch Cox back to back games.. Losing games now count also.
again Hawkins, his ERA is over 6 in over 23 innings. He stinks.. Ohlendorf the same, the good news on Ohlendorf is he is young and has some upside, Hawkins is 35 a 13 yr. vet…..
If Melancon and Cox are as good as you all think, let them pitch on the big stage, so no back to back outings… All this codling of our young pitchers what the hell has it got the yanks??? Nothing.. are they more effective? are they less injury prone? the answer is NO….
Throwing out Hawkins and others is just praying they do not screw up that is not a strategy.
Actually, bringing up Chris Britton is a good idea, it looks like we need to keep doing the Scranton shuttle until we find the right combination for the second half. Now is the time to find out. Last year doesn’t seem much different. However being just two games under 500 given how poorly things have gone isn’t that bad. Yogi once said something like “nobody wins anything in May”...so let’s see some new kids here, Patterson and the others, and catch some new fire. Thank goodness for Rasner. Cano is starting to hit again, Matsui is having a much better year, Alex has hit some homers of late, Giamabi looks better, and Damon. I think we will be in the mix but it will be a late surge again. Don’t give up in May!
Judging by how many times we’ve heard it from players, the manager and GM so far, I propose they ditch this year’s slogan and replace it with:
THE NEW YORK YANKEES: IT IS WHAT IT IS
and how if Cox or Melancon struggle in the big leagues ruins them?
then they need to go down and work on things and give it another try.
Guidry when he pitched went up and down like a yo yo before he figured things out.. Mariano stunk as a starter, baseball is all about failing, trying to prevent failure is a bad strategy.. The only way you know if melancon or Cox or Edwar are the real deal is to give them the chance to fail!!!!!!!
Pat,
I’m saying Eiland was negative. He sounded frustrated and down with what’s happened.
When he says, “It is what it is”, when describing the pitching issues, its clear they have exhausted everything they have to get guys going.
Sometimes, no matter what you do, guys just don’t get it.
That’s how I would describe his tone with Kay today.
I meant to say Eiland was NOT negative.
JRVJ,
Did you just do a “Close Reading/Critical Analysis” of SJ44’s blog comments?
Man, I wish I had that kind of free time.
I’m not hopping on the anti – Ian bandwagon here because I’ve been saying since last year that I thought Kennedy was being over -rated. Especially when Cashman more or less made him untouchable in trade talks.
I witnessed 2 of his 3 wins in ‘07 and came away appreciating the fact a rookie got the wins but it wasn’t like he was dominating by any means. And it’s not like he was a strike throwing machine last year either. He walked 9 batters in only 19 innings. He definitely looked more aggressive last year and I liked his strut.
The sad thing about IPK is that he seems to be a terrific young man and wants badly to be successful. I’ve got 2 terrific kids around Ian’s age so I have empathy for him. But my kids can’t pitch in the major leagues and I’m afraid Ian can’t either.
OK people..tonight starts another 5 game winning streak…god Yankees please get over the .500 mark!!!! This is embarrassing!!!!
Five games over .500 by this time next week!! anyone agree??
Stuart,
There really is no reason to bring up guys before they are ready. When Cox and Melancon are ready to handle the load, they will be in NY.
They are both coming off TJ Surgery. They won’t mess with them just to try and win games now.
They would torch this season before risking those arms.
When they get called up, as was the case with Joba, they want it to be a one way trip.
In other words, once they get here, they stay here because their upsides are higher than the Chris Britton’s of the world.
Those type of pitchers ride the Scranton Shuttle. Guys like Cox and Melancon, when ready, will have defined roles in the bullpen.
Give it another month and if they are both healthy, they will be in NY.
I’ve had some free time on my hands today….
Look, I think that SJ44 has a lot of good ideas. I don’t agree with others, though (such as his absolute Giambi/Damon bias).
A poster named Mitch did a good analysis of the 3 things that drove the Yankees down in the 00s, and to the extent we have a difference of opinion (I mean SJ44 and me), it’s on whether signing BOTH Sabathia and Teixeira would be a step back for the Yankees or not (he’s convinced that it would be. I’m not – though I can’t yet support signing BOTH Sabathia and Teixeira, since it’s unclear at this point what the Yanks biggest needs will be after this season).
“Laura, if you can get Britton to do that, please do! He’s so awful.”
Honestly, I can’t remember seeing him pitch. He comes up and then goes right back down. Does anyone know when he pitched last and what his stats were?
Guys… put me in the dump Hawkins ASAP camp. Do you realize of guys with 50+ innings he has the worst ERA in the HISTORY of Yankee Stadium. He’s been a hard throwing bum for most of his career.. a poor man’s Armando Benitez who is good in one-sided games and horrible in close ones. At least the disastrous Pavano signing made sense at the time… signing Hawkins NEVER made any sense.
Go easy on Kennedy who was rushed to NYC last year and this. He should be returned to Scranton once healthy and left there. Britton is nothing more than serviceable… but that’s an improvement over Hawkins and Farsnwurst. I think they’ve screwed up Ohlendorf bringing him in the first inning, then the fourth, then the seventh… and so on…
The bottom line is this is a poorly assembled team that
has too many LH hitters—including two of three switch hitters being poor from the right side—too many DH types who are mediocre defensively and inexplicably cannot find a LH pitcher for the bullpen… the post-season string is in serious joepardy… but the $ 85 million or so coming off the books should buy quality reinforcements… just no one over age 30 please.
I was of the opinion that Kennedy would be the biggest surprise of the three (Hughes, Joba, IPK). Well, in a way, I was right.
I just think it’s going to take more time. But, I also don’t think he was every untradeable in the right package. He would have been included in a Santana deal without question, if Minny had accepted. I would not be surprised if Kennedy gets to the major leagues in another uni. The Yankees can’t afford to be sentimentalists, and I don’t think they will be, ultimately.
Uh, Stuart, Melancon and Cox are being “coddled” not because they’re young, but because they’re coming off of major arm surgery. When you have major arm surgery that keeps you off the field for a year, there is a program for building arm strength to get back to regular pitching levels. What SJ is saying is that they’re still in the program. This is not the same as the Joba Rules from last season.
I’d rather see Britton, Patterson, or anyone else who is healthy pitch rather than having Cox and/or Melancon miss another year because they rushed back from surgery to win a few more games this year in what is clearly a transitional year.
it’s amazing how Melky started off great and he was everyone’s hero, he hits his first slump of the year and everyone wants him sent down. hey, i agree, it’d be awesome to get a guy who guarantees you 2 hits a night but i dont know anyone who hits .500 for their career. give the kid a break, i think he’s earned it.
anyway, the immediate returns on keeping Hughes and Kennedy really suck. i don’t know what the problem is but the Yanks just can’t catch a break when putting a rotation together these last 4 or 5 years. trades, big FA signings, now youth development, nothing pans out. very, very frustrating.
stuart,
I think you and V make a good point. If they bring up Cox and Melancon, aren’t they hurting their development?
These are panic moves caused by a poorly thought out plan. What was plan B if Hughes and/ or Kennedy imploded? Kei Igawa?? It’s decisions like this that make me wonder about Cashman’s decision making ability. We don’t have Cash’s background or knowledge, but can only base our judgemnet on results. Since this is a team that basically has been in decline since ‘04, the results havent been good.
“Five games over .500 by this time next week!! anyone agree??”
i’d love to agree, but it’s not mathematically possible since they’re 2 games under and only have 6 games between now and this time next week….
How many would like to see Moeller start more often? He seems to give us more with the bat as of late. Molina still looks lost at the plate and is giving away outs. Not that good at throwing out runners right now as well.
Laura, last year Britton had a 1.02 WHIP and a 3.55 ERA. Good on the surface. But if you look deeper, nearly all of his games were pitched in blowouts.
Here is a link to his Gamelogs for 2007:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=brittch01&t=p&year=2007
Seven of his 11 appearances came in games where the final score was at least a six-run win or loss.
In the other four “close” games, the Yanks lost three of them.
The backups were Horne, Karstens, and Rasner before Igawa.
Of course, Horne and Karstens got injured, and Rasner’s up here now dazzling us.
JRVJ,
I see where you’re coming from. The coolest part about the upcoming offseason is the flexibility that the Yankees will have created for themselves through the revival of their farm and the high-paid player salaries that come off the books (Mussina, Giambi primarily).
I am not sure bringing in Sabathia AND Teixeira is necessary. Have we not learned that pitching wins? Sabathia would get priority from my standpoint, but are we really in taht great of a need for Teixiera? If anything, the team needs athleticism and speed for the basepaths. Certainly there is a cheaper option for 1B than Teix.
Ah another loss for the Yanks tonight to stay in the cellar. There are what, 3 teams worse record wise than the Yanks in the AL? Nice going team. I say we all boycott the blog and Yanks game tonight in protest to how this team is playing.
I just hope Andy has a good solid outing tonight. He needs one and the team needs to know he’s coming back to where he should be.
I think a lot of the offensive problems are part in parcel with not knowing who is showing up pitching wise night to night.
This team needs some measure of positive consistency to get itself going.
The only thing that’s been consistent this season is inconsistency and that has to stop.
I’m done thinking about next season and the season after that.
With Joba in the rotation, this has the potential to be a great season where if we get to the post season we actually have a tough rotation.
With a rotation soon of Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Mussina, Rasner we should be able to contend.
I like the Broussard signing. It puts heat on Giambi and has potential to beef up the bench where Shelley and Ensberg have contributed little.
I hope there is more dice rolls like that signing on the horizon for this team. If they don’t work out, who cares. If they do, at least we’re trying.
So yesterday Joba was sitting on his hands in a critical one-run game, but today he’ll be getting extra work in the bullpen. Yup, that’s the Yankee plan for you.
Jake,
I’m not entirely convinced that Moose is out of the Yankees after this season (and in fact, he’s $5MM cheaper per season than Pettitte).
We really have to wait and see….
You folks JUST REALIZED how bad Hawkins is? It is May 28 LOL….I knew that back in March
alright I will give SJ and others Melancon and COx and a little more time… I do not totally agree with guys with real talent you only want them to go up once etc.. I think this game is so hard to figure out that no one knows where the next maddox will come from and therefore you never know.
I will try to be more optimist because they are in better shape then last yr. and have many good guys in the minors….
I just hate to see the same Kyle and Hawkins failing over and over.. Kyle will fail, he failed last night but the Yanks got bailed out…Fail with young guys I can accept that but not with the old guys…
Thanks Mitch.
Moose is on borrowed time, no way for next yr unless it is for $3 mill..
he is done, winning with guile alone…....
JVRC,
Well, unless Mussina settles for like $5 million, then why would we bring him back? He just isn’t THAT good anymore.
I really wish we could keep Pettitte around for another year or two. Then at least you know you have Wang, Pettitte, Joba (presumably). Maybe Hughes gets healthy and figures things out, maybe we bring in Sabathia.
As you said, we wait and see.
I do think that we should keep Abreu around.
Winning on guile still counts as a win (frankly, Mussina has been a pleasant surprise this season. If he keeps on doing his smoke and mirrors act, he’ll have been a positive this year, not a negative).
what now??? now i’m supposed to take book recommendations from Mike & The Maddog???
it was painful enough to hear them talk about politics and their man-love for John McCain a few weeks back…
tell ya what WFAN…please stick to sports. leave the book recommendations to NPR and The New York Times…and John Stewart.
Hideki,
That’s like saying that Pettitte didn’t pitch last night with a one run lead but is going to go tonight. The guy threw 45 pitches last time out. He needs to recover, just ilke Pettitte needed his four days rest for tonight.
If Joba is going to be a starter (which has to happen now that IPK is on the DL), how do you expect him to get there without getting on a starter’s schedule?
Signing vets with seven or more years is really a crapshoot, even more with pitchers. then factor in the disease that vets get when they sign with yankees and it gets worse. It just seems when a veteran gets here, to often it is like they in their own mind become legends. It is like they are surrounded by superstars and they no longer need to work. It is likley stats could prove that to be all in my own mind, but is just how it seems to me.
“i don’t know what the problem is but the Yanks just can’t catch a break when putting a rotation together these last 4 or 5 years. trades, big FA signings, now youth development, nothing pans out. very, very frustrating.”
It’s because the Yankees have done what a lot of people on this blog are begging for. They have shown very little patience with all of their pitching the past few years.
It’s the curse of Ted Lilly. If they never trade Ted Lilly they never trade for Kevin Brown (no Jeff Weaver) ,they probably are more patient with Contreras (who has had 2 out of three good years with Chicago and working on a fourth),probably are more patient with Javier Vasquez and they never trade for Randy Johnson etc. etc.
It sounds crazy but trading Ted Lilly really sent them to the state they’re at right now.
Seriously though right now their rotation would be,
Wang
Lilly
Contreras
Pettitte
Moose
The kids would be learning in the pen. Now is that an all-star rotation, no. But that’s 5 pitchers who would probably give you 150+ league average innings at worst and 3 of them would more than likely be giving 180-200 above average innings.
Curse of Ted Lilly I tell ya, the curse of Ted Lilly.
P.S. I’m only partly playing around.
The more i watched Kennedy. The more i saw Clippard like abilities(nibbler,if not percise,gets hammered). I was one who thought that he would do better this year than the other two. After watching more of him. I dont think he is more than a 5 pitcher. IMO we have guys with more ability in the minors. Not yet ready but on their way. I would bring back Ian. Have him pitch in the minors. Dominate and move him to the n.l. for a need.
Whoever had May 28 as the under for when Percival went down and hit the DL for Tampa, you just won a prize.
Apparently, he collapsed on the mound when his hamstring gave out after throwing a pitch.
The REAL curse of Lilly is that the Yankees, in order to save on the luxury tax, decided to get Igawa and not Lilly.
Ted Lilly back in the Bronx would have been a very good thing last year (and this year).
You can’t blame not throwing strikes on Kennedy, he threw 3 beautiful strikes, thigh high and center third of the plate. that aint nibblin. (sarcasm)
“So yesterday Joba was sitting on his hands in a critical one-run game, but today he’ll be getting extra work in the bullpen. Yup, that’s the Yankee plan for you.”
I know this is hard for you to fathom but maybe the Yankees have some sort of an idea on how to develop a starting pitcher.
Raymagnetic,
For the first time I completely 100% agree with you.
The curse of Ted Lilly bit us back when we traded him and bit us harder when Torre voiced his arrogance against the player and Cashman listened and we passed up signing him last season.
But NO ONE was 2nd guessing the Yankees for getting Weaver from Detroit at the time.
Pettitte has said that part of the reason he came back was because it was Yankee Stadium’s last year and he said that he was intrigued by the possibility of playing in the new stadium’s inaugural season. Whether he would actually want to come back and whether the Yanks would want him to come back isn’t really worth speculating about now.
Mussina? Also not really worth speculating about now, but I think/hope if there was any chance at that it would be because he was willing to take a low and/or incentive-laden contract.
I here everyone explaining to Stuart why we dont bring up Cox and Melencon. My question is if they have to throw in the minors. Than why not throw up here? Its not like they are underhanding the ball down there. 70% of both is probably better than 110% of Hawkins. Innings are innings. Again. I just want to know the difference.
I agree I would have like Lilly. Its just another reason my Cashman is a joke when it comes to filling out a roster.
S.O.S. could be because you don’t have anything to lose in the minors, where as there is actually meaning up here. just guessin, I know what your are saying.
“S.o.S.27
May 28th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I here everyone explaining to Stuart why we dont bring up Cox and Melencon. My question is if they have to throw in the minors. Than why not throw up here? Its not like they are underhanding the ball down there. 70% of both is probably better than 110% of Hawkins. Innings are innings. Again. I just want to know the difference.”
The problem is the time off between throwing days. That, and the risk of overdoing it against big league hitters.
Let the kids rehab in peace.
“It’s the curse of Ted Lilly. If they never trade Ted Lilly they never trade for Kevin Brown (no Jeff Weaver)”
Dont forget we wouldnt have had Igawa. It was either signing Lilly or Kei. WOW! A curse it is.
Let me get this straight. Cashman is a “joke” for not giving $40 million over four years to a guy with a 5.23 ERA and 1.33 WHIP (not to mention 10 HRs in 62 innings).
I guess he’d be Executive of the Year if he had signed Jason Schmidt.
Saucy!! good point! ugh..totally getting ahead of myself. so 4 games over .500 by this time next week???
The more I watch Kennedy, the more I rather not watch Kennedy. He should have been traded months ago. He might win 10 games in a 10 year career. He’s horrible, along w/Hawkins and Ohelendorfmunder.
Armchair GM’ing. Nice to know that the best GM’s in the game are really sitting at home making moves on a blog. Y’all should submit your resumes to Hank, I’m sure he’d snap you up in a heartbeat.
The difference is, its the minor leagues and major hitters will kill guys who aren’t 100% ready.
You don’t use the majors for rehab. That’s what the minors are for with players who are rehabbing and building arm strength.
At the major league level, guys are expected to perform at levels that help the team win games.
In the minors, its different.
For example, there is not a single situation in which Mark Melancon would be allowed to pitch 4 innings with the Yankees. He can do that in Trenton. As he did last night.
When Cox and Melancon get called up, its going to be for good.
It was around this time last year that internally, they began discussing putting a kid named Joba Chamberlain in the bullpen down the road.
Mind you, he was starting in A ball at this point of last season.
He didn’t get to NY until July.
He, unlike Cox and Melancon, aren’t coming off TJ Surgery.
They just need more time.
In the meantime, the guys on the roster have to get the job done.
Bad game or two? It happens. Suck it up and get better. Its all they can do right now.
That goes for Hawkins. As bad as he has been the last two nights, he’s got to be better the next time out.
That’s life in the big leagues. Got to be able to turn the page.
Raymagnetic,
“I know this is hard for you to fathom but maybe the Yankees have some sort of an idea on how to develop a starting pitcher.”
When exactly was the last time they successfully developed a starting pitcher again?
rover,
Thats the whole thing. They aint losing in the minors.
“The problem is the time off between throwing days. That, and the risk of overdoing it against big league hitters.”
That makes sense. Thanks.
Lilly for Weaver was a no brainer at the time. Weaver projected to be a top of the rotation starter. He was one of the best young pitchers in the game at the time of the trade. We all know what happened, but to say that it wasnt a move that should have been made is silly. There isnt a gm in the game that wouldnt have made that move at the time.
“When exactly was the last time they successfully developed a starting pitcher again?”
I take it you have never heard of a guy named Chien Ming Wang. Get to know him, he’s something kind of special.
“Lilly for Weaver was a no brainer at the time. Weaver projected to be a top of the rotation starter. He was one of the best young pitchers in the game at the time of the trade. We all know what happened, but to say that it wasnt a move that should have been made is silly. There isnt a gm in the game that wouldnt have made that move at the time.”
I never said that it was a move that shouldn’t have been made. I was just pointing out the succession of moves that took place when the Weaver trade didn’t work out.
It’s extremely easy for me to look back on it now and see what subsequent moves were made after the Weaver trade.
Weaver-should have been top of the rotation guy
Irabu-was supposed to throw 98 and be a k machine.
Brown-was supposed to give us stability.
Vazquez-a better pick up than Schilling and another k man.
Pavano-best free agent pitcher out there.
Contreras-best cuban pitcher out there.
Johnson-The answer.
Clemens-The savior.
Igawa-Strikeout king and a lefty.
WHY DONT WE EVER CATCH ANY BREAKS WHEN IT COMES TO PITCHING!
“I take it you have never heard of a guy named Chien Ming Wang. Get to know him, he’s something kind of special.”
So that’s 1 in the past how many years? I’d probably credit Wang’s development back to Taiwan (since he was pitching for their national team in 2002 and 2004), but I’ll give him to you anyway.
Sort of like the Yankees season so far…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-g_Y0UCxmg
“Brown-was supposed to give us stability.”
To his credit, he did stabilize the DL afer his fistfight with the clubhouse wall.
it really is crazy how nothing ever works out for the yankees when it comes to pitching.
Peter really can’t you ban Russ.. he is a weasel and a loser and a troll. I do not need to read his drivel..
how is daisuke doing loser??? going on the DL???Timlin looks good run him out there a few more outings… Giambi is thinking of paying his salary if you keep him on your team.. Hey the JD Drew contract only has 5.5 yr left. that should turn out to be a shrewd move up there with that golden glover Lugo…..
Boston pretty cocky for a bunch of overweight pasty white guys that run like cecil fielder….....
“So that’s 1 in the past how many years? I’d probably credit Wang’s development back to Taiwan (since he was pitching for their national team in 2002 and 2004), but I’ll give him to you anyway.”
Well that’s 1 more than the Red Sox at this moment. Wang wasn’t the same type of pitcher for Taiwan that he’s become for NY. Wang learned the sinker when he came to NY. And what does pitching for a national team mean anyway?
Got a break with Wang. Got a bigger break with Chamberlain. An elite arm like that in the 40’s in the draft? The envy of baseball.
Got a great break with Pettitte for over 10 years.
We tend to remember the failures more than the successes.
Teams that evaluate pitching better than the Yankees passed on Bartolo Colon. The Red Sox didn’t even think much of him. Yet, for two games at least, he’s pitched well.
Sometimes, you miss because you do a poor job of evaluation. Other times, its just bad luck.
I love people judging Britton as a scrub already, when every time he’s up here, he’s always immediately going back to the minors.
“Got a break with Wang. Got a bigger break with Chamberlain. An elite arm like that in the 40’s in the draft? The envy of baseball.”
They dont count. They were home grown. Free agents havnt been that kind to us. Thats the reason i say no to the O-LINE LEFTY free agent in 09.
Peter please ban Russ the loser…
can we ban the redsux maggots, who spout drivel and BS….
I thought kindergarten does not get out to 4 PM!!!!!Russ mommy left you alone today???
how is the Drew signing? How about Aparicio Lugo, he is some fielder???
Colon will be hurt or innefective in no time…
SOS27 –
It is too, too, true. Much hasn’t worked out for the Yankees, and many of the moves they made would have been made by other teams as well. They didn’t exactly go out on a limb by choosing any of those guys. The only one I had a major, major problem with was Johnson. The way that one turned out was totally predictable.
Actually, this is the first time the Yankees have really taken a major risk by bringing up two rookies simultaneously (pitching-wise, that is). One of them should have worked out, don’t you think??????????
I’m telling you, something is cosmically wrong with the Yankees.
At some point, either Hughes or Kennedy or maybe both, but probably just one, will fit neatly into the rotation. And though for the most part I’m in agreement with G.Love (enough looking ahead to next season, because you really can’t figure that out yet), it’s anyone’s guess if the Yankees are going to sign a pitcher outside the organization in spite of all the talent being developed in the minors.
I’m not sure if this is the case now, but during the Cold War we would always have long-range bombers armed with nuclear weapons in the air.
I think that should be the plan with Chris Britton. Have him in a plane doing a slow holding pattern over wherever the Yanks are playing, ready to parachute in if needed but otherwise not close to the team.
I have been to Fenway Russ what a dump… I asked the clowns on the tour about there somewhat checkered record with african americans his answer was a little weak to put it mildly.
the sux need to win about 15 straight championships and then they will be in the yanks neighborhood.
I got an idea want to hang out with about 35,000 overweight, pale, white guys who talk funny, go to a redsux game…
“To his credit, he did stabilize the DL afer his fistfight with the clubhouse wall.”
He wouldnt happen to have fallen flat on his back after that wall kicked his rear did he?
S.O.S.,
I think it comes down to patience. If we had stuck with Vazquez and Contreras we would still have 2 very decent veteran starters.
Kenny Williams makes us look silly having 2/5 of his rotation be guys who were ran out of NY. Like Chicago is an easier town to play in?
Back then, we had to win a world series every year or else. Those were the conditions the team played under and those were why starting pitchers who were young enough to build around were jettisoned for bigger names.
However, now I feel we’re being asked to show patience for rookies which I think there is a big difference between rookies and Contreras and Vazquez and where they were at that point in their career.
Showing patience in rookies is all warm and fuzzy, but they don’t have the track record of success some of the veteran guys have had.
With rookies, I feel you have to catch lightning in a bottle to get them to work out. More of them don’t make it in the majors than do.
I think the Vazquez/Contreras decisions is where we actually started to go off the rails and make panic moves.
I think it would be a lot nicer having the both of them here than in Chicago.
It’s not that they are both #1’s, but they are good starting pitchers who log innings.
I think back, like a lot of fans, to what would have happened had we signed Vlad (who was my favorite player in baseball back then).
Lot of Monday Morning QB’ing going on here, but clearly there is a pattern of decisions that haven’t worked.
The scary thing is you don’t know what to learn from them. If you take away that you can’t go after sexy names anymore, I think it’s also short sighted.
I just think a lot of it comes down to luck.
I think one of the biggest things this team needs to do in the future is identify which guys in the league are gamers who have a passion to be a winner besides being rich.
There’s something about the teams that win in the post season that you see in their eyes.
I say it looks like they are ready to run through a wall to not let the other team beat you.
In recent years, the Yankees have not had that look consistently. They seem to have so much respect for their competition, I think the edge has been dulled.
As much as he has not performed, guys with attitudes like Shelley help teams win in the clutch.
I’d like to see more of that kind of attitude brought in here to break up the mix of the cool confident, we’ll get them next time, players.
Id rather see someone with some talent and promise or just for kicks a lefty.
We’d have to have someone with talent and promise before seeing them.
Stuart,
Was russ the one who sleeps with a helmet on? I was crapping my pants yesterday,laughing so hard.
SOS,
Mike Mussina? When all is said and done, a free agent signing that worked out well.
They got Shaun Chacon and Aaron Small to save 2005.
Jimmy Key and David Cone? Excellent FA signing and trade.
I don’t think you can have hard and fast rules when it comes to player acquisition.
Every situation is different and you deal with them as they come up. Ideally, in an intelligent fashion.
Clearly, they are looking to develop their own pitchers.
While that’s the right way to go, they have a gap that needs to be filled next year.
Namely, because of the injuries and ineffectiveness of Hughes and Kennedy, and the possible retirements of Pettitte and Mussina, they need 2 guys who can eat innings next season.
Meaning, their plan has to be tweaked a bit. To what level, is to be determined.
However, there is no question they will need at least one, possibly two veteran starters in the off-season.
LMAO at Nick in SF’s comments about Chris Britton holding at his failsafe point.
I’m sick of this Spring Training nonsense with Joba. During the regular season, I’d like to pull for Andy to go seven; Ramirez/Farnsworth pitches the 8th, and Mariano closes.
Yeah, I know that desperate times call for desperate measures—we want Chamberlain to be ready without hurting him—but this has to stop soon.
Of course, if Andy gets knocked out in the 3rd, none of this matters. But I want to hope not.
Or is there a secret plan to make Chamberlain be for Girardi what Joe Page was for Stengel?
We hear the same stuff (They are built to win the World Series) every year from some folks.
Folks have short memories re: Contreras and Vasquez.
Both were run out of town by fans AND the media.
All we heard was how bad Contereas was, how he would never win, couldn’t pitch in NY, etc.
Same thing with Vasquez. Especially after Game 7 in 2004.
Had to have Randy Johnson. HE was the answer. He was a fire breather, etc.
Contereas and Vasquez were definitely run out of town and impatience from fans, the media and ownership drove that train.
The same thing is happening with Kennedy and Hughes right now by some folks in the media and fan base. Definitely by the Bill Madden’s and Mike Franscesa’s of the world, and definitely by some members of the fan base.
The difference is, ownership and the front office aren’t taking the bait. They will be more patient because they don’t want the same result as they had with Contereras and Vasquez.
Maybe those kids won’t make it. Maybe they will.
Bottom line is, we don’t know the answer for sure right now.
Just like, as in hindsight, we didn’t know with Vasquez and Contreras.
When watching Yankees batting practice today on YES, Chris Britton will be easily seen shagging flyballs in the outfield.
He’s the guy wearing a parachute.
He uses a very light carry on bag and has packing down to a science.
GLOVE,
In regards to Contreras and Vazquez. You are forgetting one factor. The New York pressure factor. I am not convinced that they would have pitched the same way with us as they did with Chicago. They looked like deer in head lights playing for us. As for most of the list i mentioned. Including mullett himself. I do agree that we need people who will run through a wall for us. Like Rowand did for his sox. I just hope we can get a mixture of O’NEIL attitudes with Jeter ones in the coming future. Too many Jeters(laid back).
I agree with G Love – the departures of Vazquez and Contreras was a big turning point. We may have never even sniffed Pavano or Igawa if those two had been kept around.
This whole thing with Kennedy is a shame. Will the real Ian Kennedy please stand up? Was it the dominant guy that pitched late last year when he was called up or the guy that just couldn’t seem to get it going this year? His last couple of starts had been pretty promising – quick innings in the first 3 or so, but then he’d have a 3 or 4 run inning to get him rattled. And that seemed to be a big problem for him so far this year, IMO – he gets shaken up too easily and just falls apart. That’s why I thought the pep talk from ARod that got him focusing in his last start was great.
I’ve actually wondered over the last few days – is it possible that Phil and Ian were both pitching hurt long before they said something? With all the pressure on them to step in this year,I can’t help but think they could possibly keep some aches and pains a secret so that they wouldn’t feel like they let the organization and fans down.
SJ,
I agree that Mussina has been good for us. But like some of us argued yesterday. Was he 20 mil+ good? I think that Ace like money. He was more of a 2. His last 4 years. If i can recall. He had 3 over 4.4 e.r.a. I see what your saying. But thats why i dont think a pitcher should get more than 5 years. The last couple you will most likely be getting an average pitcher for top dollars.
I remember people wanted contreras out immediately and the smae with vazquez..
this is how it works people bith on either side of the issue.. they say get rid of some0ne and when they do if they succeeed elsewhere they say why did we get rid of them..
it is if fans say why did the yanks get rid of Kenny Rogers!!!He stunk with the Yanks, plan and simple….
I agree with you SJ. I’m tired of hearing Kay diss Hughes. And claiming he doesn’t see a “star” when looking at Hughes, simply because he doesn’t throw 99 like Joba. It just seems like Kay is hung up on velocity readings. His personal dislike of Hughes and Kennedy because they don’t throw hard enough for him is becoming irritating.
SJ, do you think the managerial change could have affected Kennedy at all? Girardi’s been really hard on him from what I’ve been able to tell, whereas Torre was always more laid back, or at least seemed so. I’m not saying that’s the reason he’s struggled this year, because he still has Eiland. Just wondering if maybe there is a comfort facor (or lack thereof) with Girardi.
Good injury news. Even if Kennedy goes back to Scranton, he’ll at least be able to get innings in.
One thing I forgot to mention. If the commissioner’s office had any proper plan for disciplinary hearings latrot hawlins would not have even been available to pitch the past 2 days. How is it that this has not been dealt with for this long. Total joke
Hindsight is always 20/20. Who knows what the future will bring…
Anyways..
Let’s just hope we can crank out some wins somehow. Pretty, Ugly, Stressful…however the game is. Just try and win the darn things.
Let’s go Yankees!
I have to admit. I was happy when both Contreras and Vazquez got traded. We got one of the best lefties of all time. With a good prior year and i forgot his name from the sox, who won 20 just a year or two prior. Again, i think the pressure wearing pinstripes has an effect on players.
Good to hear the injury to Kennedy is minor. Be patient everybody, we’re rebuilding and we need to develop our own pitching.
2010 rotation.
Wang
Joba
Brackman
Hughes
Horne
Who’s with me!! All home grown.
Josh,
No. I think what happened with Kennedy is, he got off to a slow start and began to press. He felt the pressure of holding up his end in the rotation and got out of his game.
Like hitters, pitchers can slump. With rookie pitchers, it happens quite a bit.
Add to it the excessive glare of NY, and the whole thing unraveled for him.
He is a better pitcher than he has shown. The radar gun is not the only way to evaluate a pitcher. Those who believe it is simply don’t know pitching.
Its more about location, changing speeds, and having solid margins between your fastball and your off speed pitches.
If you do that, you are successful.
I really believe he needs more time in the minors. I know I’m in the minority on that but, its what I believe based on what I have seen from him so far this year.
He needs to have games in which he can work his way out of jams, use his off speed stuff more, etc.
More than anything, he needs to learn how to minimize damage in bad innings. That’s his biggest problem, IMO.
Can’t do that in NY right now. The Yankees are in last place and they need wins. They don’t have time to have him work on his game at the major league level.
Hopefully, he will go down to Scranton when he gets off the DL, take his turn every 5 days, and work on his game.
If he does, he can get himself right.
If Doc Holliday can go down to A ball, after he was an established pitcher, to reconnect his game, Ian Kennedy, in his second full year as a pro, can certainly spend the rest of the year in Scranton.
I love how people use the “Rebuilding” word.I forgot that $200 million teams can be rebuild.You can’t have three prospects be in the rotation.That was the reason for SAntana to give these pitchers time to develope and win.
Kennedy,Hughes and Joba all are not gonna be in the rotation next year.None are again are gonna give you 160 innings.
And by next year we are gonna have 1 to 2 free agent starters.No way around it.
Tonight’s pitching strategy vs. Kevin Millar and Aubrey Huff, same as last night. Pitch to their strengths and try to fool them into thinking otherwise.
I don’t there will ever be an all home grown rotation. There will be 1 FA pitcher in there.
2009
Wang
Sabathia
Chamberlain
Hughes
Solution to Millar. Treat him like Bonds. 4 fingers and take your base Kevin. Hes killing us!
Oh, please Kennedy. Hurry back. Losing just isn’t the same without you.
I was happy when we got RJ for Vazquez. We had lusted after the unit for so long it almost didn’t matter who we gave up for him.
Vazquez also struggled in AZ and still hasn’t pitched with the effectiveness he showed in MTL back in the day.
Contreras for Loiza was a dumb move and I hated it at the time. Contreras had wicked stuff and I wanted to hang on to him or at least deal him for something better than free rental pitcher who was clearly a shell of himself at the time.
And I want to say one thing on the record. I’m not saying Hughes and IPK are done.
They are far from it.
But I do think that they were mistakenly annointed not only by the media, but largely by this fanbase putting tons of pressure of them.
I would have rather Cashman sign some vets for the rotation and let these two earn their way up from Scranton.
It seems to me, young players coming up from consistently mowing down the AAA competition seem to stick better. They still have their ups and downs, but they are not as dramatic and the ups and downs we’ve seen from IPK and Hughes this year.
Edwar flamed out and cried at his locker last year, but one of the better things Torre did was reinforce to him that it wasn’t the end of the world.
Edwar went out during the off season, talked to some vet pitchers and worked his butt off.
He wasn’t on the opening day roster being counted on as a top reliever. He has earned his way back.
That’s all I want out of Hughes and Kennedy in the future. I don’t want to see Cashman pencil them in anywhere on the major league club until they earn their way back.
That’s how it should be unless there is a freak injury and they are pressed into emergency service.
If Hughes and Kennedy go 6-0 each in 6 starts at Scranton and give quality innings and go after hitters, then they should get the callup if needed.
But Hughes especially needs a full season of health at some level soon.
I read Pete’s little joke about Ian’s eye and hip and after giving it some thought I would like to be the first to demand that Ian receive a glass eye and hip transplant. I am not sure what is wrong with him but maybe that will fix it!
“SJ, do you think the managerial change could have affected Kennedy at all? Girardi’s been really hard on him from what I’ve been able to tell, whereas Torre was always more laid back, or at least seemed so. Just wondering if maybe there is a comfort facor (or lack thereof) with Girardi.”
You’re not the only one wondering about this. The team is the same personnel wise, but something’s definitely changed with them. The Yanks aren’t in a comfort zone. Even when they struggled last year, they did things right (score runs, steal bases, etc) but this year its like they’ve lost it. Quite honestly, when I see Girardi standing in the dugout with his hands folded and a stern look on his face, I wonder how it can make anyone feel confident.
SOS27…
Uh, Clemens was a signing that worked out nicely. He won a Cy Young in pinstripes.
They should do something to keep him on the DL or Scranton until the September call ups!!!
we need a win
guthrie is decent, but our hitting will continue tonight
I love to watch the Yanks….Pete’s humor cracks me up….and there are a lot of folks here who can expound intelligently that provides a lot of insight..great blog, guys. Go Yanks!
Oh, since we talked about contracts earlier, particularly about Sabathia and Tex, what kind of deals would you offer to one of the two, or both simultaneously (if you’re in the camp for signing both), given what you know currently? Too early for serious ideas, but something to burn time with before the game starts
Haven’t thought about Tex yet, but for Sabathia I was thinking something along the lines of a 5 year/95 mil with a 17 mil team option for a sixth year, or a 6 year/102 mil with a 15 mil team option for a seventh year. The year/dollar ratio I was thinking of going with would be closer to Oswalt/Big Z than Santana money.
Er, closer to Big Z money than Santana money; forgot that Oswalt is actually closer to 14 mil a year, sorry.
that’s a lot of $ for cc, but we might have to anyway—considering hughes & kennedy might not get their pitch count up this year. the least amount of years the better. cc’s innings pitched were really high last year though… would be interesting to see if he loses something in september.
there should be a lot of people after tex also, so he will be just as expensive. personally, i think we need cc more than we need tex. any above-average 1b will do with our lineup.
go yanks!
SOS27…
Uh, Clemens was a signing that worked out nicely. He won a Cy Young in pinstripes.”
I was talking about the “goodness gracious” stint of 25 mill.
Why can’t Joba ever give 160 innings?
No on C.C. He will be 400 pounds in his 4th year.
Solution.
Sign Sheets. Trade for Harden. One spends first half of the year on the d.l. The other the second half. Problem solved. Next.
Ughhhhh another night of MASN cluelessness and announcers pulling fact out of their butts about the Yankees.
Double ack.
“Kenny Williams makes us look silly having 2/5 of his rotation be guys who were ran out of NY. Like Chicago is an easier town to play in?”
I live in Chicago and it is much easier to play here than in NYC, especially for the WS. They are second class citizens here even though they have won a WS much more recently than the Cubs. Even when they are playing well, they don’t sell out. People just don’t go to see them. The Cubs have a packed house even when they stink. One of the reasons Contreras and Vasquez did okay in Chicago is because there is no pressure on the WS to win. It’s even easier for them now because the Cubs are playing well and the WS are being ignored. Easy to play when the pressure level is close to zero.
“Oh, please Kennedy. Hurry back. Losing just isn’t the same without you.”
As usual, jumping in at the end but will peruse the previous posts as the evening goes on.
I always get to read the last several or so, though, and I absolutely love this one! Don’t know if there has been Ian conversation but he can’t disappear long enough for my money. I don’t mind him coming back as a major league pitcher – but really, not until he truly is one.
Someone had asked whether I had a preference for Joba in the pen or the rotation, and I said that it really did not matter to me but that if I were making the decisions I would probably have kept him in the pen this season since I am someone who believes that your relief pitching in the late innings is critical to your success. That said, I am fine wherever the Yankees decide to put him. However, I think we are seeing my theory in action here. So it means that everyone will have to be patient until the dust settles. There hopefully will come a day when our starters and offense are so on the same positive page that our relievers will be able to afford a few runs now and again without it meaning the game. But we might go through some tough times getting there.
GO YANKEES!!!
GO MARINERS!!!
GO PISTONS!!!
Yankees will lose this game but at least we get to see Joba pitch.
Hope Joba can brighten an imminent miserable night.
that was some good patience shown by our captain. one pitch ground out
So..some people sure don’t like Kennedy. Alrighty then..
That was a quick top of the first inning. Let’s go Andy.