Yankees preparing for draft
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on May 30, 2008 
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Had a chance yesterday to speak to Brian Cashman and Damon Oppenheimer about the draft. It was more about their philosophy than specific players they are targeting. Check out The Journal News on Sunday for the story.
I was impressed by how much time goes into preparing for the draft. Oppenheimer reviewed his Marriott account while we were talking and said he had spent 120 nights on the road since Feb. 1. And I thought I was on the road a lot.
The Yankees are gathering their top evaluators in New York today and tomorrow. There will be an invitation-only tryout at the Stadium tomorrow for a bunch of top prospects. “Just a chance for people to get their eyes on some players,” Oppenheimer said. “We’re lucky, we get a lot of players. They all want to come to Yankee Stadium.”
There will be another showcase at Steinbrenner Field on Sunday. The draft starts Thursday. Just a hunch, but I would bet they go for a college pitcher.
————
There is a notion out there that Hank Steinbrenner ordered the Yankees to start Joba Chamberlain.
Obviously doing research all the way back to last July is too troublesome for these folks.
When the Yankees turned Chamberlain into a relief pitcher last summer, Brian Cashman said without caveat that the move was temporary and that Chamberlain would become a starter again in 2008. Cashman has never once deviated from that. Joe Torre was on board at the time as was Joe Girardi when he became manager.
Chamberlain was shifted to fill a need and because he was close to his innings cap. Rather than have him make four more starts for Trenton or Scranton, they let him throw 24 innings in the majors.
Hank Steinbrenner was not a team executive at the time. These were the bygone days before every reporter had his cell number and called him every day to ask what he had for dinner.
Quite correctly, Hank has supported the idea of Joba joining the rotation. But the alternative would have been calling a hostage negotiation team to get Cashman out of his office.
It’s also funny how many of these same people think the Yankees are splitting atoms by moving the kid into a different role. The Dodgers did it with Chad Billingsley last season. The Twins did it with Johan Santana in 2002. It happens all the time.
Adam Wainwright did it last year too.
Never let facts get in the way of a good controversy.
I’ve read that the Yankees are keeping with the same philosophy they’ve had in the last few drafts… Take the best player available., no matter what position. College pitcher is a good bet.
Pete – what do the other players think of the whole “Joba” drama?…as much as they seem to like him I’d think they get tired of hearing about him every day (bullpen, starter, fist-pumping etc.)..
unfortunately todays Jack Curry story in the Bats blog wont help the idea that this was the plan all along even though like you say if anyone read or listsned to what the organixation has been saying for over a year you would know this. Yes we know that Hank is not George but the bozos that are perpetuating that Hank was the one that made this move dont know any better
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/
So…What did Hank have for dinner last night?
So Cashman is actually a nuclear physicist living out his lifelong dream of playing GM?!
Will you be blogging the tryout at Y.S., Pete?
Sorry for being petty, but there were only 119 night from Feb. 1 thru May 29. (wink, wink)
Lol. . .
clap clap clap
A younger Cashman would have been a perfect player for that “quantum hoops” team at CalTech. BTW, I have waiting for that DVD release. Has anyone seen it at theaters?
Joba didn’t fist pump after the K to escape trouble the other night. It’s something that takes over him, I guess. I think he’ll be more subdued as a starter.
No no no! You are so wrong. Mike and the Mad Dog told me that this is a panic move by Hank. We have no idea if Joba can be a good starter and 8th inning runs count 4x more than runs in the first 7 innings.
Keeping Joba as a set-up guy would be like keeping Jeter as a pinch hitter because he is good at it. Forget the other 2500 hits, a couple late game singles are more valuable.
Time for some Russ’ Tidbits:
As I said before the O’s series, earlier in the week, Yanks would go 2-5 this week, and they are right on track to do so, as you see the pitching match ups for this 4 game series. Moose, Wang, Rasner, and TBA. Who is TBA? LOL, Does it matter? So, Yanks go 2-5 come end of Monday night in their last 7 games.
Yanks need starting pitching in the worst way. Moving Joba there helps, he is a bit better than Rasner, Igawa, Hughes, (Hughes, the injured Carl Pavano), and of course no win Kennedy. Therefore, move Joba to start, and have an 8th inning by committee w/the above mention names. This season is a tryout for 2009 anyway, so that is that solution.
Cut Duncan, period. Enough said there. Cut Betemit, enough said there.
Here is to Moose going 5 innings plus one pitch tonight, since he can’t go more than 5 anymore and not giving up 5 runs. 5 should be his favorite number. 5 ERA, 5 innings, 5 runs.
OK, back later w/more tidbits
BRILLIANT !!
Great Article in the WS Journal about “the $10 Million Arm” Rick Porcello who is doing great in the minors –
I thought it was disgusting the way the Detroit Tigers stole what we were about to steal. No sense of decency! No honor among thieves.
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....mod=sports
Thanks, Russ, your opinion has been duly noted. TBA means “to be announced” and anyone the Yankees throw out there should be better than Livan Hernandez. I expect to split the 4 games because Minnesota is a pretty good team, but relax. Maybe we should get rid of Duncan soon, but Betemit is the least of our problems.
http://media.newsnetnebraska.o.....3-94-1.jpg
Don’t bet on it, mel…
I like the “splitting atoms” comment at the end of the article that starts with meeting Damon Oppenheimer. Nicely played.
more on Tabata, apparently some people reported he and Reegie Corona got into a little fight in the dugout, that is the rumor, after that he was sent to the lockerroom. That’s our delinquent.
Russ, sorry to confuse your judgement with math, but if Moose goes five innings and gives up five runs, his ERA would be 9.00, not 5.00.
I decided to look at Moose’s numbers (again, sorry to confuse your rant with actual, you know, stats), and he has, in fact, averaged five innings a game (11 starts, 55 and a third innings), although that includes his 2/3 of an inning appearance.
Since his ERA is 4.39, and he’s given up 27 runs in 11 starts, that tells me his average game is 5 innings, two earned runs. On the current Yanks staff, I’ll take that.
John,
That was then, this is now. You know, Power, Pinstripes, Pride and all that… Oh, who am I kidding.
Brandon,
Hey, hey. He may be a delinquent, but he’s OUR delinquent.
Am I the only one that wants to slap Russ M?
Right now nothing annoys me more than Russ tidbits.
Breathe in, Breathe out, count to 10.
Woo Sah!
Interesting and unbiased reporting Pete. It isnt brain-surgery and the Yankees aren’t reinventing the wheel by trying this approach.
I think you mentioned a few days ago what do they have to lose? Nothing, and if it doesn’t work he can always go back to ‘pen and be a valued member there.
russ
You need to include Sox prognostications in your tidbits too. I didn’t see the one saying the Sox would be lose 2 out of 3 to the Mariners.
From the last thread…
saucY May 30th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
i’m more for tex this offseason than CC. i’d rather pay a position player $$ than a pitcher. pitchers are way too unpredictable, IMO…
———————————————————
Moreover, we have lots of pitching prospects and zero 1B prospects.
Nice to get by with neither, both is definitely irresponsible, and if you had to choose between the two, go with Tex.
Although you have Po to deal with. I’d rather Po become our DH rather than plug him in at 1B.
mel -
If Posada can catch for one more full season, then he can move into DH when Matsui is gone. But then the Yanks will need a catcher. UGH! Seems there will always be a hole to fill.
“Moreover, we have lots of pitching prospects and zero 1B prospects.”
i’m kind of in the same line of thinking, that i’d rather spend the money on a player that i know we dont have in our system, and wont have for the next couple years.
of course, you could also argue that you pay for the known pitching quantity, and trade the overflow of pitching prospects for a young 1B.
of course, it all depends on what pitcher you’re giving your money too, for how many years, and what type of 1B you can make a move for.
“Brandon,
Hey, hey. He may be a delinquent, but he’s OUR delinquent.”
yup, atleast we know he fights so he’ll never get the soft label if he pans out.
“Pete – what do the other players think of the whole “Joba†drama?…as much as they seem to like him I’d think they get tired of hearing about him every day (bullpen, starter, fist-pumping etc.)..”
It’s not like it’s Joba’s fault. I’d hope that they’ve been around NY long enough to understand that you can’t blame a guy for what the media does. I remember earlier in the year Pete or someone saying that a lot of the vets felt good about having Joba in the pen. Then again, these were the same guys who would have–emotionally, at least–preferred to have ARod come back as soon as he was eligible to come off the DL, regardless of whether or not that would have been smart for the long term. Also, the starting pitching picture looked a lot prettier in the spring than it does now. I think that, once people see Joba have some good to great outings in the rotation, this idiocy will all go away.
Like Cash said, no one who’s SEEN Joba start doesn’t want him to return to that role. I don’t think a single guy on the club has actually seen that, except maybe Ian. And, of course, most of the mediots haven’t seen it either.
“But then the Yanks will need a catcher. UGH! Seems there will always be a hole to fill.”
That’s the nature of baseball
There’ll be a hole at SS in the not terribly distant future as well. If Jeter doesn’t start getting on base again, he’s going to continue to be a huge drag on the team. Having a guy in the 2-hole with an OBP around .330 just isn’t cutting it.
Since the change in philosophy with player development, draft time has become a ton of fun as a yankee fan.
This year the talent pool is thin. I’m not sure if any high ceiling guys fall to the yankees either due to injury or signability.
I think the best player available for them to draft will most likely be a pitcher again.
Even though they have a lot of pitching – at the end of the first round they need to just take the best player available rather than drafting for need.
This year’s college pitching corp is not very good and not very deep.
We’ll see who they take. I have a feeling that next year they won’t have a first round pick as they’ll sign some big name free agent.
UConn’s calling a news conference to make an announcement re: Jim Calhoun.
From Pete’s keyboard to Fatso and Fruit Loops brains.
Unfortunately, that is too long a journey to educate two clueless individuals (as well as others) on the Joba stuff.
What do the players think? I would guess the veterans hate it because they want to win now and see Joba pitching the 8th inning as a means to that end.
They won’t say anything publicly because most of them have underperformed so far this year. Kind of hard to talk about personnel moves if you are one of the players underperforming.
Players don’t make these decisions. They are best just worrying about themselves.
Of course, if Joba ends up succeeding in the rotation, all of them will LOVE the move!
The wonders of hindsight! lol
Aside: Anybody else thought of “I am become death, the destroyer of worlds” after seeing Oppenheimer and the splitting of the atom in the same post?
Good Torre/Steinbrenner story in the NY Times Bats Blog. The behind the scenes stuff is fascinating to me.
If Torre ever wants to write a book about his NY days, it would be an instant best seller.
That’s nice Pete. How about less talk about Joba and more talk about winning? This team has become more focused on making this guy a starter than it has on winning ball games. It’s disgusting. We all like Joba, we all have our opinions on how he should be used, that’s fine.. At the end of the day though, Winning should come first not Joba and his throw days or whatever.
Whozat -
WHERE has the time gone????
Eugie,
I’d say the media has gotten more focused on Joba, not the team.
“Of course, if Joba ends up succeeding in the rotation, all of them will LOVE the move!”
I can see them really setting the bar for “succeeding” at an impossibly high level.
That way they can delay admitting how silly and wrong they were.
Even if Joba pitches to an ERA of 3.5 they’re going to say, “see he’s much worse as a starter. he’s naturally a reliever, much more dominant, etc.”
Until Joba wins 20 games or a Cy Young I think there are going to be people making silly assertions that moving him was a mistake.
“It’s also funny how many of these same people think the Yankees are splitting atoms by moving the kid into a different role.”
Obviously, it takes a DELICATE GENIUS (what show?) to move from the 8th inning to the first inning.
People lose sight of what these players are actually doing out there. They are throwing a ball.
Mariano said it best “I get the ball, I throw the ball, I take a shower”
Mitch, the season is far from over for the Moose, he won’t get any better.
How exactly is this team “less focused on winning”?
They have won 6 of their last 8 games.
I guess playing .750 baseball for the last week is being “less focused about winning” these days.
They are putting Joba in the rotation to help them win games.
For the life of me, I can’t understand why this is such a diffcult concept for some people to grasp.
I love the “scorecard” that Russo is keeping. It’s at -1 after the Yanks lost that extra inning game against the O’s. Yet Russo doesn’t give them the benefit for the game he pitched in relief of Pettitte.
Russ,
Just out of curiousity, your baseball experience telling you how this team can’t win and Moose won’t get any better is based on what?
Experience? Stats? Bad little league experiences on your life?
Just wanna get a sense of what we are dealing with when you expound so “intelligently” each day about the Yankees.
Pete, Are you friendly with Vescey from NYT? You may want to send this post to him via blackberry, he apparently thinks Joba’s moving to the rotation was influenced by Jon Lester’s no hitter.
Also, the two dudes on “Loudmouths” on SNY. They don’t do homework either.
“Russ, sorry to confuse your judgement with math, but if Moose goes five innings and gives up five runs, his ERA would be 9.00, not 5.00.
I decided to look at Moose’s numbers (again, sorry to confuse your rant with actual, you know, stats), and he has, in fact, averaged five innings a game (11 starts, 55 and a third innings), although that includes his 2/3 of an inning appearance.
Since his ERA is 4.39, and he’s given up 27 runs in 11 starts, that tells me his average game is 5 innings, two earned runs. On the current Yanks staff, I’ll take that.”
According to my fantasy baseball spreadsheet (where I attempt to project ERA based on peripherals (a basic regression formula that’s fared me well in the past – Baseball Prospectus uses a similar one in its Quick ERA)), Mussina’s ERA is pretty much -exactly- what you’d expect from his peripherals (K rate, BB rate, fly ball%, etc.)
I thought I typed this, but I’ve had a lot of distractions today. In the Star Ledger this morning, they listed all the pitchers who’ve been Joba-cized:
Dave Stewart (A’s – first 45 games in relief), Jimmy Key (Toronto) – 63 relief appearances), Chuck Finley (Angels – 25 appearances), Kenny Rogers (Texas – 73 appearances in ’89, relieved through ’92 and became a starter in ’93), Kelvim Escobar (Toronto/Angels – 27 appearances in ’97, started as a relieve in ’98; became a starter in August after being sent down in May; back to relief in 2002 for Jays, and a starter for LA in 2006), and Adam Wainwright (Cardinals – 2006 in bullpen, closer for the playoffs, starter in ’07).
They didn’t count Santana, because Santana’s second big-league game was a start.
“Eugie,
I’d say the media has gotten more focused on Joba, not the team.”
This is true but I would also say the Yankees do a little also. Take that extra inning game the other night. We could have used him in that one but nooooo he had to get his work in the next day. That’s less about winning and more about joba.
Just to be clear, there are two Russ’s in this room
Hank absolutely forced this issue. Yes, the long-term plan for Joba is as a stater. But very recently Girardi made public comments saying that there was no set timeframe for the transition and it might not be in 2008 at all. Then Hank made his comments and — suprise — the Yanks make the switch. The timing is key, and the reason the Yanks are making the switch now is because of Hank.
No. Its looking at the bigger picture. It doesn’t take away from winning. Its understanding that you don’t let one May baseball game change your plans.
Jim Calhoun has cancer, had surgery, and is being treated for it. Just wanted to explain (in detail!) and quell any rumors as he has missed a few commitments.
Best of luck to him.
“Hank absolutely forced this issue. Yes, the long-term plan for Joba is as a stater. But very recently Girardi made public comments saying that there was no set timeframe for the transition and it might not be in 2008 at all. Then Hank made his comments and — suprise — the Yanks make the switch. The timing is key, and the reason the Yanks are making the switch now is because of Hank.”
Just because Joe says there was no time frame doesn’t mean there wasn’t one.
This switch is occurring at the right time. At most, 1-2 weeks early.
How is Hank forcing this?
He started the ENTIRE SPRING. Did you ever see Jeff Nelson start and entire spring to get ready to pitch the 8th inning during the season?
Hank had nothing to do with this. As Pete wrote, this was ALWAYS the plan with Joba.
One of the reasons why its easier to stretch him out now is because he started all spring.
Its like folks strain themselves to make Hank Steinbrenner some kind of evil boogyman in charge of hurting the Yankees.
Even when the facts say otherwise.
“This is true but I would also say the Yankees do a little also. Take that extra inning game the other night. We could have used him in that one but nooooo he had to get his work in the next day. That’s less about winning and more about joba.”
Did you watch the game? The 7th and 8th inning guys didn’t give up any runs. They lost the game in the 11th when Hawkins was in.
So according to your logic Joba pitches a scoreless eighth instead of Farns and the Yankees lose it in the 12th or 13th when Hawkins comes in.
That extra inning game is not a good example for your argument.
“How is Hank forcing this?
He started the ENTIRE SPRING. Did you ever see Jeff Nelson start and entire spring to get ready to pitch the 8th inning during the season?
Hank had nothing to do with this. As Pete wrote, this was ALWAYS the plan with Joba.
One of the reasons why its easier to stretch him out now is because he started all spring.
Its like folks strain themselves to make Hank Steinbrenner some kind of evil boogyman in charge of hurting the Yankees.
Even when the facts say otherwise.”
it’s like having the answer sheet to a test and thinking it’s fake.
“Moose won’t get any better is based on what?”
Fair question, though there is no argument I can think of that Moose will get better either.
mel: Owe you a congratulations for your Lakers! At last someone beat the Spurs
“We’ll see who they take. I have a feeling that next year they won’t have a first round pick as they’ll sign some big name free agent.”
Next year’s draft class is looking good… 1st round picks are definitely going to come into play when determining trades/etc. Might be a case where it’d be better to deal for Sabathia midseason than wait til FA, etc.
“Fair question, though there is no argument I can think of that Moose will get better either.”
I think his odds of getting better are equivalent to his odds of getting worse.
SJ,
You going to the Miami game today?
“This year the talent pool is thin.”
CB,
How do you reconcile this statement with this assessment:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....;fext=.jsp
I’m wondering what makes you think otherwise.
If you follow the Yankees long enough, you have to learn by now to follow actions and not the words of people.
Why do you think they are aggressively promoting guys like David Robertson, JB Cox, Dan McCutchen, and Mark Melancon through the farm system?
Why did Joba start all spring?
Just connect the dots.
They are not only prepping Joba to start, they are putting their ducks in a row when they revamp the bullpen. Something that will be done again this season (as it was last year) around the AS Break.
This is what they were always going to do.
This is why they didn’t spend 5 million dollars to have a pitcher in reserve in case Hughes and/or Kennedy struggled.
From the start of spring training, it was clear to anyone with even a scant amount of baseball knowledge he was going to be a starter this season.
Unfortunately, folks either listen to people who know nothing of the situation (Mike and the Mad Dog) and actually believe they are going to get any concrete insight from daily, generic managerial media briefings.
If you are going to be a Yankee fan, its best to follow the actions of what the organization does, instead of relying solely on the words you hear.
Its a lot easier to read the tea leaves that way because its not an organization prone to telling all to the media.
Not on player moves, not on anything.
“This is true but I would also say the Yankees do a little also. Take that extra inning game the other night. We could have used him in that one but nooooo he had to get his work in the next day. That’s less about winning and more about joba.”
The starter choked away a 4 run lead, his long man didn’t do better we loss in the 11th inning JUST LISTEN TO WHAT YOU SAID ! This the logic that guys like Joe Beningo, Boomer and Carlton, FATCESSA & FRUITY PEBBLES, And the Continent of NJ Chris Carlin who is an absolute fat bondheaded moron when it comes to stating facts or even doing actual HW. None of those guys are qualified to say a damn thing against scouts who do this as a living.
“Fair question, though there is no argument I can think of that Moose will get better either.”
There is also nothing to 100% make me believe that Moose won’t turn into Nolan Ryan, pitch for another 10 years, and lead us to 10 straight World Series Championships. But I can dream
No Miami game for me today. On the road with work this weekend.
If they win the Sub-Regional, I will go next week to their Super Regional games.
Apparently you didn’t get the memo Pete – everything the Yankees do is stupid and evil.
Let’s hope they play like that have all season and hope Alonso slips dwon to the Yankees……..
“Did you watch the game? The 7th and 8th inning guys didn’t give up any runs. They lost the game in the 11th when Hawkins was in.
So according to your logic Joba pitches a scoreless eighth instead of Farns and the Yankees lose it in the 12th or 13th when Hawkins comes in.
That extra inning game is not a good example for your argument.”
So you believe in destiny? The game was already pre determined in the grand scheme of things? I don’t think so.
Joba is on a pitch count so they could have used him for his 50 or so pitches. 20 hours isn’t going to make or break his arm. He could of lasted more than one inning.. maybe 2, maybe 3. Or he could have given up a rare bomb or 2 and lost it. Who knows? We sure don’t.
SJ, very basic. They are in last. Their starting pitching is bad. They can’t beat Detroit, Tampa, KC, or the O’s on a consistent basis. They haven’t played out west yet. Moose will go on the DL somethime this year, especially when he has a very bad start. They have no middle relief (Hawkins, Olendorf…etc). When you add all this up, this team wins around 80 games, finishes 3rd in the division or worse. Very basic son.
Rebecca,
Thanks. It’s been a crazy season!
Why are we talking about Hank? Who cares? This plan was in place before he even took over at the helm.
Next subject!
You don’t understand pitching do you Eugie? They couldn’t use him for 50 pitches that night. He wasn’t ready to throw 50 Tuesday night.
That “rest thing” gets in the way.
I’m in favor of making Joba a starter and sticking to the plan, but you can’t seriously debate that we would have stood a much better chance of winning the 11 inning game the other night had Joba pitched the bottom of the 11th over Hawkins and saved the win for Mo. That’s clear to me. But as badly as we need to win games now, we’ll need to win more down the road and having Joba starting over Kennedy is a good start in that direction. That’s really the argument that carries the day here, in my opinion.
Russ, if you are that visionary into the future, then play the lottery this evening.
Pick the right numbers, win a lot of money, and you won’t have to waste your mythical powers on mere mortals like us on a Yankee blog.
“Connecting the dots” on your posts is like War and Peace. You go on and on and on about nonsense. Call it like it is. Last place, looking up at Tampa, Boston, Toronto, and Baltimore. They aren’t hitting w/RISP, A Rod is A Rod, pressure situation, K’s, GIDP, Fly Out, what have you. The Captain getting a free pass this past week, he was horrible. Basic, basic. Moose will maybe give you 5 IP tonight, but 5 runs will go along with that. Yanks will pull him after that. Then for the 6th and 7th your stuck. Basic, basic knowledge
he could have thrown 20-30 then, his previous session total.
“I’m in favor of making Joba a starter and sticking to the plan, but you can’t seriously debate that we would have stood a much better chance of winning the 11 inning game the other night had Joba pitched the bottom of the 11th over Hawkins and saved the win for Mo. That’s clear to me.”
I honestly forgot that the Yanks had gone up by a run when Hawkins came into the game.
However being that they are trying to stretch Joba out he wouldn’t have been able to pitch the necessary amount of pitches needed to stretch him out anyway if he comes in to save to game.
“SJ, very basic. They are in last. Their starting pitching is bad. They can’t beat Detroit, Tampa, KC, or the O’s on a consistent basis. They haven’t played out west yet. Moose will go on the DL somethime this year, especially when he has a very bad start. They have no middle relief (Hawkins, Olendorf…etc). When you add all this up, this team wins around 80 games, finishes 3rd in the division or worse. Very basic son.”
How is this ‘analysis’ different than last year’s 94 win team?
I love the ‘son’ thrown in.
Why do people keep yammering about not pitching Chamberlain on Tuesday? He pitched multiple innings on Saturday, had a day off on Sunday, had a full side session on Monday and wasn’t going to pitch on Tuesday unless the game went 20 innings. It would have been an afterthought had the base running been better in the first place, because the game wouldn’t have gone extra innings.
I thought russ’s troll bona fides were well established, rendering him “shunned” and beneath any engagement in debate.
It is just useless tripe.
That’s right, and that’s why putting Joba in wouldn’t have been the right move. It’s a long season, even though it hurts to lose a long game like that.
““Connecting the dots†on your posts is like War and Peace. You go on and on and on about nonsense. Call it like it is. Last place, looking up at Tampa, Boston, Toronto, and Baltimore. They aren’t hitting w/RISP, A Rod is A Rod, pressure situation, K’s, GIDP, Fly Out, what have you. The Captain getting a free pass this past week, he was horrible. Basic, basic. Moose will maybe give you 5 IP tonight, but 5 runs will go along with that. Yanks will pull him after that. Then for the 6th and 7th your stuck. Basic, basic knowledge”
So basically, future production = past production extrapolated.
Well, thank you for that exquisite knowledge.
Mussina’s going for his 8th win tonight and its not even June yet. Wouldn’t it be a great story if this were finally the year that Moose won 20.
mel,
I thought i would man up and congratulate your boys. The younger and hungrier team won. We’ll have to do it again next year. Hopefully by that time. We would have weeded out the seniour citizens and come in with some young blood.
Have to tell you though. Ill be rooting against them in the finals. Anyone but Kobe.
“Mussina’s going for his 8th win tonight and its not even June yet. Wouldn’t it be a great story if this were finally the year that Moose won 20.”
That’d be awesome
another thing you want to know how dumb these sports talk radio guys are ?
Boomer and Carlton kept slinging the notion that Joba is going back to the BP in August and that Joba can not hold up his stamina in late innings.
Joe Beningo & Evan Roberts two of the worse in sports radio haven’t had one scout guest on thier show, there is Patrick Teale, there are Trenton Thunder pitching coaches, there is Nardi Contreras himself, they have not reached out to one source at all. Not one and then people wonder why WFAN has lost it’s juice.
Fatboy and his Poodle have done just as bad, really bad, they use Pete as source never once reached out to him to comment on the Joba situation but that doesn’t stop them from using his blog for Yankee updates, they have pitching coach sources again nothing, they talk to Brian Cashman like he doesn’t know what he’s doing, Cashman sat right in that chair in ST and told them flat out this is what they were going to do w/ Joba and they continue to feed BS to thier listeners w/ no facts watsoever, haven’t spoken to Nardi once, Scott Aldred in AA NOTHING.
Shein and Carlton are garbage, SNY’s latest gimmick LOUDMOUTHS complete BS talkers not one thing they say is factual.
Tony Paige atleast reaches out to Pete Ab. for a source.
Gordon Damer who is the best on the overnight getting resources reaches to Patrick Teale, Pete Ab., Feinsand, you name it, unfortunately he is on an overnight and his show doesn’t spread out enough info.
This is what sports media is now.
Why are you guys feeding?
GO WINGS!!
GB7,
Saw that you’re back. Great to see you again.
sos,
Thanks. I think.
Personally, I think we learned everything we needed to know about russ in his War and Peace comment. If his opinion is that Tolstoy just wrote nonsense, I can imagine the type of “mind” we are dealing with here.
Then, he can’t start on Monday or Tuesday if he only throws 20-30 pitches the other night. They are stretching him out. Not keeping him in the bullpen. You don’t go backward in pitch count when you are stretching out a pitcher. You also don’t pitch him on an off day of his throwing program. That’s just dumb.
You can’t look at baseball like football. No matter how much you want to convince yourself every game counts, they don’t.
If they get Joba stretched out, and he helps this team win over the rest of the season, its more important to do that than trying to save a May game in which nobody did their jobs well enough (except for Mo and Edwar) to win that night.
For all of their problems, they are much closer to a playoff spot today than they were a year ago at this time.
Russ, and I say this with the greatest amount of affection, you may be the most ignorance person ever to post on this blog. Which is saying something.
My guess is, you are the alter-ego of Anti-Mussina. Only he posted as much juvenile nonsense.
Happy posting from here on out. I would rather engage in baseball talk with people who are actually interesting and know something about the game.
Unfortunately, despite your “wisdom”, you are not in that grouping.
Neither Albert Einstein nor Dr. Teller ever made decisions with Yankee scouting from Los Alamos.
The nearest they ever came to Yankee Stadium was the Manhattan Project.
“Well, thank you for that exquisite knowledge.”
This reminds me of another quote:
“Tell me Agent Starling, why does he cut off their skin? Thrall me with your acumen.”
The character and movie?
That reminds me, I still have yet to retract my hyperbole/prediction hybrid that Moose will win 20 games, pick up a perfect game along the way, and get a WS ring this season
-
Good to see you back, GB7
Anthony,
I learned a long time ago not to get into with idiots. SoS is the exception, though. j/k!
Thank you, Mel. Nice to be here. Great to see a lot of the regulars, and, thanks to the Old Codger…Old Ranger, also. I see this blog has finally hit the big time…troll infested. Can’t understand why the Yankee boards draw so much attention, since the Yanks are so terrible.
Calhoun has skin cancer.
Here’s hoping to a speedy recovery.
Thanks, Blargh. Much appreciated, and good to see you, too.
Pete, i don’t always agree with you, but you have always “got it” with regards to Joba from the beginning.
it’s sad that the bar is so low that i have to congratulate you for that, but that is where we are right now with the media.
it’s amazing how many people are being just blatantly dishonest when it comes to the Yankees’ plans with Joba.
great post. keep beating the drum.
Quick unrelated question.
Has the Yankee/Met game (the Friday night rainout) been rescheduled yet?
heard torre say this a.m. that he’s better where he is and that its so much better managing in a market where the reporters have never asked him tough questions.
if thats what he wants in his last few years of managing, im happy for him but its sad to see a once-great competitor settle for the cushiness of nobody giving a crap what the team does.
also, if the Yankees were to sign a type A free agent next year, there is an outside chance they could pick up a first rounder by letting Abreu go.
The Yanks/Mets makeup will be part of a day/night Double Header at two stadiums.
Thanks, GreenBeret7.
Do you know which day?
hope Oppenheimer scouts prospects better than he reviews his expense accouts. there have only been 119 nights since 2/1/08 thru today 5/30. hard to see how he has spent 120 nights on the road without having visiting the twilight zone or some astrophysical anomaly.
“Has the Yankee/Met game (the Friday night rainout) been rescheduled yet?”
i can’t say this for a fact, but history says it will be a cross-town double header on June 28th
Please, no more CJ Henry’s!!!
“hope Oppenheimer scouts prospects better than he reviews his expense accouts. there have only been 119 nights since 2/1/08 thru today 5/30. ”
well, thank God this is settled.
that rainout makeup isnt on the yankees schedule for that weekend yet, so im not sure thats what they’re going to do. if it was there, id have bought tickets already
“Mussina’s going for his 8th win tonight and its not even June yet. Wouldn’t it be a great story if this were finally the year that Moose won 20.”
Would also tell a good story of how insigificant “wins” is as a pitching category. He’s 5-1 in his last six starts despite getting to the 6th inning twice, averaging LESS THAN 5 innings a start, and posting a WHIP of 1.44.
If Joba finishes the year as a starter with a ERA under 4.50 I’d be happy.
Peoples’ expectations are sooo out of whack… He’s not going to dominate as a starter from the get go. I could see him tiring in the 5th or 6th innings and start leaving balls up and getting whacked around.
Anyway… All you people with rosy expectations prepare to be disappointed.
Long-term, I agree with this move 100%.
gregori wins the ocdc award of the day.
Gregori, the anomaly is called leap year, ever heard of it?
ham fighter,
Are you suggesting that Torre’s soft? lol.
Torre can’t win. I’m sure that was in response to a reporter’s question, but if you’re in a better place why the hell you gotta keep calling our guys?
It all seems crystal clear to me as well. As SJ said, you don’t let a win in May get in the way of your long-term planning. This team, much like in the 80′s, has gone way too long without long-term planning, and the short-term planning they did hasn’t worked out very well.
Joba Chamberlain should be what he was supposed to be: a starting pitcher. If there’s going to be bumps, we might as well begin to get those bumps out of the way now.
All we built previous to this, this decade, was an expensive team primed and ready to lose in the first round of the playoffs every year. I’m pretty tired of that, and assume the rest of you are as well.
obviously i dont suffer much from ocd, my editing skills sure could use a touch of it though.
Actually, many of us with rosy expectations of him are fully aware he will have struggles as a starter.
We just believe he belongs in the rotation. Both for short term and long term gain.
Unless or Burrell as decent replacements for Abreu, who do you replace him with in right field? He won’t be getting another 5 year 16 million dollar per contract again. Dunn, as a mid season pickup isn’t likely happening. Until 15 June, he has a full no trade contract. After that he has ten teams he can decline and has apparently decided to include the top 10 markets as the no trades. Abreu for the next 2 years and an option would be just fine.Â
Jackson, at the earliest, won’t be in NY until late next season. He’s one of the two outfield prospects that does not need to be rushed. Tabata, being the other. Tabata should still be in Tampa, considering his age and coming off of major hand/wrist surgery late last year.
Welcome back, Rebecca.
mel,
I forgot to say that the Sasha shot in the final seconds was a classless act. I would hope that the orginization explains to him what sportsmanship is. Thats it and your welcome.
“Please, no more CJ Henry’s!!!”
How many times is CJ Henry going to be brought up?
Is this just a function of Bill Madden’s silly column last week?
CJ Henry was selected as part of an overall draft strategy to draft athletic, high ceiling position players as they not only have the most potential but athleticism was something the team was and still is sorely in need of.
CJ Henry was a two sport star with a scholarship to play baseketball at Kansas. That same year they drafted another raw, highly athletic two sport star with a division one basketball scholarship – Austin Jackson.
If the baseball draft if you go one for two on drafting raw, athletic high schoolers you are orders of magnitude ahead of the curve.
This is not to say Jackson has “made it.” But he’s turned into a very good prospect – and that’s the immediate endpoint of drafting in baseball.
It doesn’t matter what round you get them in – you just want to make sure you get high ceiling prospects in every draft.
They did that in 2005 which was the same year they picked Alan Horne, Brett Gardner, and JB Cox.
If you don’t take the risk of picking a guy like CJ Henry at 17 you’ll never get the reward of picking Austin Jackson, a guy who required supplemental round money to sign even though he was selected in the 8th round.
“Call it like it is. Last place, looking up at Tampa, Boston, Toronto, and Baltimore.”
Yankees are 5 games in loss behind Tampa, 3 from boston. They played about a month w/o the MVP and two w/o their catcher. They have zero wins out of 2/5 their opening day rotation and their young 2nd B is hitting .225.
To be honest, I think they are in very good shape to remain competitive through the summer and potentially make the post season. I don’t see this as a fanatic because I take a realistic view of the team.
Where will they be in September? I dont know. Neither does anyone else, including ESPN, M&MD, Hank Steinbrenner, or Brian Cashman. I do know that their will be some changes along the way. Some moves will work, others won’t. How do I know this? Because it happens every year – the fun part is watching the results.
“I learned a long time ago not to get into with idiots. SoS is the exception, though. j/k!”
mel,
And here i felt smart talking to you. Ouch! That hurts. Youd think i insulted your Lakers or something.
Clay, I’m guessing that it will be Saturday the 28th, since the Mets play in St. Louis on the 30th (Monday)and the Yanks play a night game in Pittsburgh on the previous Thursday the 26th.
Something I heard while watching the Braves last night (I live in ATL, no Yankees, had to do something to stop the voices…) – The Indians may be looking to trade Sabathia for a bat before the deadline, and some of the names they threw out were Teixeira, Adam Dunn, and Bobby Abreu. All four are eligible for FA after this season. I HIGHLY doubt they’d take a straight Bobby for CC trade, but wouldn’t it be interesting if we could get him by dealing Bobby and Betemit or Mo-Ens or any of the other “Please DFA him NOW!” players?
“Yankees are 5 games in loss behind Tampa, 3 from boston. They played about a month w/o the MVP and two w/o their catcher. They have zero wins out of 2/5 their opening day rotation and their young 2nd B is hitting .225.”
To be honest, I think they are in very good shape to remain competitive through the summer and potentially make the post season. I don’t see this as a fanatic because I take a realistic view of the team.”
William Buckner,
Very well put. I was going to mention something about that today. But i couldnt have worded it any better. Good post.
Thanks, Joe.
Alas, I’m off again–my friend’s got tickets to the Mets game tonight so I said I’d go, because any baseball is better than none. I’ll fall asleep in the fifth inning, but that’s not the point. Anyway, catch you all later.
I’ll be checking the Yanks’ score on my phone often.
“I HIGHLY doubt they’d take a straight Bobby for CC trade, but wouldn’t it be interesting if we could get him by dealing Bobby and Betemit”
I do that deal and run the other way into the van parked w/ the sliding door opened at the corner.
“hope Oppenheimer scouts prospects better than he reviews his expense accouts. there have only been 119 nights since 2/1/08 thru today 5/30. hard to see how he has spent 120 nights on the road without having visiting the twilight zone or some astrophysical anomaly.”
Feb 29
March 30
April 31
May 30
Total 120
Unless my math is wrong it could be 120
Rebecca,
Don’t they have an out of town scoreboard? Or is all their electricity used to power that apple thing?
Rebecca,
You lucked out! Clayton Kershaw is throwing for the Dodgers tonight!
Only his second start in the majors. He was terrific in this debut last week.
He’s got a chance to be very special and getting to see him could be a ton of fun as a baseball fan.
Thing is, I cant figure way some are so quick to write the season off after a bad game or a bad stretch. Look at bostons road record. They’ve struggled as a team. Tampa just lost their closer.
There’s no sure thing, but last couple of years have taught me not to lose my mind in may. Two years ago we lost both corner OF for most of season. Last year, I was at a game that Tyler Clippard started, in June!
Baseball is a long season. In no means are they the 98 Yankees, but their not the 89 either.
GreenBeret7! Welcome back:)
The Yankee boards draw so much attention because they are now and always have been America’s Team. Regardless of what The Idiot Nation says! LOL
First, Happy Friday.
I did some digging on ERA stats as it seems like the Yanks and Sox are facing quality starters on a nightly basis. I believe that AL pitching has dramatically improved. I know we are only headed into June but…
Through this AM,
AL ERA- 4.09
NL ERA- 4.20.
This is amazing given the DH and overall stronger lineups in the AL. I took it back as far as 2000 and the NL has had a lowewr ERA in all of those years. In some years it was as much as a half a run.
Have a great weekend.
-dennis
““I HIGHLY doubt they’d take a straight Bobby for CC trade, but wouldn’t it be interesting if we could get him by dealing Bobby and Betemitâ€
I do that deal and run the other way into the van parked w/ the sliding door opened at the corner.”
If Cashman signs that deal, he is going to have to wear a mask and carry a gun!
“The Indians may be looking to trade Sabathia for a bat before the deadline, ”
Mark Schapiro and Dave Dombrowski are two of the most respected GM’s in all of baseball.
Before the season started many people would have put them both in the top 5.
Look at what both their teams are doing. They are both disasters, teams that may have fatal flaws.
Detroit in particular is built to win this year. How much do you think Dombrowski would like a redo on the Renteria Jair Jurrgens trade. Dontrelle Willis’s contract?
And Dombrowski spent a ton of money so its not as if he’s been restricted by resources.
Goes to show – even the best GM’s, guys with the best plans, can have everything blow up in their faces in completely unexpected ways.
“I HIGHLY doubt they’d take a straight Bobby for CC trade, but wouldn’t it be interesting if we could get him by dealing Bobby and Betemit or Mo-Ens or any of the other “Please DFA him NOW!†players?”
It would be nice, but it won’t happen. If Cleveland does a deal with the Yanks they would want a couple of young, cheap Yankee pitchers at a minimum, IMO.
While CC may be the kind of pitcher who could anchor a rotation in transition this year and supply innings of stability again next year, it’s beginning to sound like the Yanks might just take a big pass. Then again, maybe that’s exactly what the Yanks want Cleveland to think. Remember when Cash was calling Bubba Crosby his CF?
I find it funny that only the Yankee haters in the media want Joba in the pen (Boomer Carton, Russo, Raismann, Beningo, Carlton, Schien, Steve Sommers, Evan Roberts, Steve Phillips, Kruk, Mike Micilini, Don La Greca, Jonas Schwartz, McCarver etc.) and say things like he won’t have enough stamina to start or that we won’t make the playoffs without him in the pen and that it is a terrible descision.
Yet the few Yankee supporters on SNY/WFAN/ESPN like Gordon Damer, Kay, Malusis, Tierney, Olney (kind of neutral against the Yankees) etc. want him to get a shot in the rotation.
“If Cashman signs that deal, he is going to have to wear a mask and carry a gun!
I just saw a comment like that on the Yahoo! Sports rumors today… something like, “When Pavano collects his paycheck, does he wear a ski mask and carry a gun?”
William Buckner,
Folks should look at the standings a year ago today. Boston was 17 games over .500 and the Yanks were 13 back in the loss column. This year, only 5 games in the loss column separate 1st place and last place. Tampa Bay just lost their closer and the Red Sox are incapable of winning on the road. Toronto, with their pitching, scares me the most if they hit.
CB,
Regarding CJ. Henry. The Yankees have done a horrendous job drafting position players over the past 12 years or so.
Look at our #1 draft choices for position players since Jeter.
94 -Brian Buchanan
95- Shea Morenz
97- Tyrell Godwin
98- Andrew Brown
00- David Parrish
01- John-Ford Griffin
01- Bronson Sardinha
03- Eric Duncan
05 -CJ. Henry
When I say, no more CJ. Henry’s, I’m really just begging/praying for some success.
“I believe that AL pitching has dramatically improved. ”
Dennis,
It’s kind of a chicken and egg situation as many people are wondering if the pitching in the AL has gotten better or whether the offense has gotten worse for some strange reason.
I don’t think the offensive woes of the yankees and tigers are necessarily related to better pitching – I think it’s more of the hitting.
Overall offense has decreased by 7-10% I believe in the AL.
It’ll be interesting to see how the season progresses. Ultimately its probably a combination of better pitching and better hitting as well as possibly an aberration in offensive output by the NL (see the D’Backs who have really cooled off).
“Actually, many of us with rosy expectations of him are fully aware he will have struggles as a starter.”
i find that a little puzzling because i’m not expecting” struggles”. every pitcher has bad games , but aren’t we expecting an under 4.00 era from joba. i’m thinking verlander first year. maybe hoping is a better way of putting it.
if joba has problems that qualifies as struggles, this is going to be a long summer for the yankees.
Have the results from Dice-K’s MRI been made public yet?
These 120 pitch, 5 inning outings can take their toll!
TKinDC.
Belichek has the results of the MRI in his office. Good Luck with that…
-dennis
Clay Bucholz,
That is one pathetic list. Add Kei Igawa in there and you can see why I’m less than confident in Cash’s ability to turn this around without spending on fre agents like Sabbathia and Texeira.
“The Yankees have done a horrendous job drafting position players over the past 12 years or so.”
No doubt they have – but the way they drafted before and after 2004 is entirely different.
Selecting CJ Henry had was just not the result of the same process/ decision making that landed they John Ford Griffin.
When the draft was run out of Tampa it was the worst in baseball.
My point was this – the same philosophy/ evaluation methods that landed them CJ Henry also landed them Austin Jackson.
From 1994-2004 they never drafted a position player who turned into a position player prospect who is as good as Jackson. They didn’t even draft that many who turned out to be as good as Brett Gardner.
That’s the difference. It doesn’t matter which round they get taken in. You get one Austin Jackson out of a draft and it’s a pretty successful draft.
They do need to be better with position players. But high ceiling position players don’t fall to the end of the first round as often as pitchers do because the injury concerns/ uncertainty with pitchers scares more teams off.
dennis –
very funny! The video is on the shelf next to tape of Eli Manning’s wedding this off-season.
CB,
You are obviously more well versed with the Yanks minor league system than I am. Why do you have such high hopes for Austin Jackson? Looking at his numbers, he doesnt appear to be a dominating player in any facet of his game. What is it about him that makes you think he’ll be an impact player in the majors?
“Why do you have such high hopes for Austin Jackson? Looking at his numbers, he doesnt appear to be a dominating player in any facet of his game.”
Drive,
When you look at minor leaguers, numbers really don’t paint the whole picture, at all (and i am generally a numbers oriented guy).
Numbers tell you what the player has done, but when a young player is on an upslope, they aren’t necessarily that definitive.
With Jackson a couple of things – he’s quite young relative to his competition in AA. This is the first thing you have to consider. Despite that he’s holding his own.
Second he’s showing a lot of patience at the plate (BB:K are very important for minor leaguers).
No one doubts Jackson’s athletic tools. He’s one of the more gifted physical players in all of the minor leagues. But there are a lot of guys like that (see CJ Henry). But the best prospects/ players are the ones who are able to turn big time athletic gifts into playing skills.
Jackson turned the corner last year with respect to harnessing his physical gifts, turning into more of a baseball player than only an athlete playing baseball.
So if he were a less athletically gifted player putting upt those same numbers then there wouldn’t be that much to get excited about.
That process is still ongoing and it’s unclear how he’ll end up as a finished product. But he’s only 21 and doing well (not great) in AA. That’s a very good prognostic sign. As he gets stronger and learns more about hitting he’ll only get better.
If he was putting up great numbers in AA he’d move more into the elite prospect level. Right now he’s a very good prospect who still has more room to grow.
That’s a great guy to have in your system.
You should have heard Gary Thorne on the Orioles broadcasts this week. He constantly kept saying as if it was fact that Joba was moving to the rotation out of panic by Hank. At one point he actually said, “The Yankees have mishandled this hole Joba thing” and that “Hank should just listen to his baseball people and leave Joba where they want him, in the bullpen.”
I was screaming at my TV. You want to think it’s the wrong move, fine, that’s your right. But if you are a baseball announcer and have access to all of these people presumably, don’t you think you should get the facts straight before running your mouth. I guess Cashman does not qualify as being one of Hank’s baseball people?
Just mind numbingly annoying.
CB,
Thanks. I knew AJ was young in relation to the level he’s playing at. The Yankees need to produce an impact player at some point. Otherwise, their only alternative is to trade prospects or sign free agents. Cano, obviously, can be an impact player. Melky, he’ll be a serviceable player but not an impact player like a Bernie or a Jeter.
I’ve been a Yankee fan for almost 50 years. I’m always skeptical when the Yanks talk up their prospects because I’ve lived through enough Frank Tepidino’s and Jerry Kenney’s and Hensley Meulens to know better than to buy into the hype blindly.
“I’m always skeptical when the Yanks talk up their prospects because I’ve lived through enough Frank Tepidino’s and Jerry Kenney’s and Hensley Meulens to know better than to buy into the hype blindly.”
Drive,
Here’s the difference – in the past the yankees would have one guy who they’d tout and everyone would get excited about – Meulens, Reuben Rivera, Brien Taylor, etc…
But one guy is not a system – it’s one guy.
IMO developing young players is about probability – you can’t really count too much an any one specific individual. So what you have to do is build up a critical mass of talented prospects so that you can be reasonably believe that at least a couple will be good to very good.
That’s what they are in the process of doing now. That’s what you see at the low A charleston team. The position players are lagging the pitchers but that’s changing.