Game 57: Yankees at Twins
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- June
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YANKEES
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Giambi 1B
Cano 2B
Moeller C
Cabrera CF
Pettitte LHP
Andy Pettitte (5-5, 4.11) vs. the Minnesota hitters.
Livan Hernandez (6-2, 4.60) vs. the New York hitters.
Notes: The Yankees are 3-3 on their road trip, which ends tonight. … Johnny Damon has hit in 10 straight at 19 of 44. … A-Rod is 6 of 24 on the trip with three RBI. … Giambi of 7 of his last 21 and has raised his batting average from .230 to .245. … Robinson Cano is 4 of 26 on the trip and 4 for 28 overall. … Melky Cabrera is 7 of his last 16 with three RBI. … Shelley Duncan is 2 for 20. … The Yankees have seven errors in their last seven games. … Remarkably (given that the season is 35 percent over), the Yankees have been outscored by seven runs.
UPDATE, 6:03 p.m.: Here’s the latest on Jorge Posada:
He was 1 for 3 with a walk in an extended spring training game and remains on schedule to rejoin the team this week.
Sidelined since April 27 by a sore right shoulder, Posada made two throws to the bases in the game against Philadelphia’s minor leaguers. He made a throw to first on a batted ball near the plate that was ruled foul, and also tried to pick a runner off second.
“You keep working on things and try to throw,†Posada said. “I threw the ball behind the runner and felt good about it.â€
It was the second time since getting hurt that Posada was allowed to throw to the bases during a game. His status to resume catching for New York will be evaluated after playing in another extended spring game on Tuesday.
Posada had an RBI single and popped out twice Monday. He is 9 for 25 with five walks in six extended spring games overall.
UPDATE, 6:45 p.m.: Dan Giese is on his way to New York and will meet the Yankees tomorrow. … Joba flew ahead of the team so he could get a good night of sleep before his start. … Jeff Karstens (groin) is on the minor-league DL.
They just had four people in fish costumes race around the bases. The bass won. I love the Metrodome.
UPDATE, 7:15 p.m.: That’s No. 526 for A-Rod. He’s chasing down Jimmie Foxx, who is 14th all-time with 534. Cano let Livan Hernandez off the hook. You need to kick Hernandez when he’s down. He’s one of those guys who gives up 12 hits but keeps his team in the game.
UPDATE, 7:52 p.m.: See what I mean about Hernandez? He has put six runners on base in three innings and allowed only two runs. The Yankees have left four runner son base, three in scoring position.
UPDATE, 8:23 p.m.: Jeter has been on base in six of his last eight plate appearances.
Meanwhile the Yankees are a grim 1-8 with RISP in this game and have left six runners on base.
UPDATE, 8:38 p.m.: No break there as Moeller’s double bounces into the stands. But the Melkman delivers. 3-2 Yankees.
Step on his neck here. One’s not enough.
UPDATE, 9:05 p.m.: The sound system at the Metrodome is playing Bo Diddley in memory of the great Bo Diddley, who passed away today at the age of 79. He influenced countless acts including Buddy Holly, The Rolling Stones, Bruce Springsteen, Elvis Costello and The Who. Holly’s Not Fade Away is a great example of the Bo Diddley beat.
UPDATE, 9:25 p.m.: This really is staggering. The Yankees are 3 for 16 with runners in scoring position and have left 10 men on base in seven innings — seven in scoring position. That is really hard to do.
What’s even more stunning is that they’re winning.
UPDATE, 9:30 p.m.: As awful as the offense has been, this is on Pettitte. The Yankees have given him leads of 2-0, 4-2 and 5-4 and he couldn’t hold any of them.
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LET’S GO YANKEES!!!
I’m feelin’ a solid game tonight.
i like moeller better than molina right now… he doesnt seem like as much of an automatic out and is great behind the plate too
” like moeller better than molina right now… he doesnt seem like as much of an automatic out and is great behind the plate too”
I second that.
A Livan Hernandez fastball must look like it’s the size of a basketball to A-Rod. He crushes Livan.
Again, Andy paired up with Moeller…
“A Livan Hernandez fastball must look like it’s the size of a basketball to A-Rod. He crushes Livan.”
I think it might look like that to everyone else as well. Didnt we take him out in like 2 innings last year?
Anyone heard anything about who is going down for Geise?
I was away all last week and a little out of the baseball loop. Although I heard Kay mention the other day that it has already been decided we will keep three catchers when Posada returns? Is this true, and what is the reasoning behind that?
If Moeller gets hot and Molina stays cold. Is it a given that when Posada comes back, Moeller is the one with the short end of the stick?
in case of a set-back, i guess. and Posada may DH a few times, once back.
i keep noticing that we seem to be clueless about throws home from the OF. game after game, bad throws from the OF which have no chance of getting a runner at the plate are not cut off, giving an extra base and preventing the dp. what gives? sometimes there’s no cutoff man, sometimes there is but he’s overthrown, sometimes he’s there and could cut the ball but doesnt.
this team has limitations on its defensive ablility, often because of age, but i dont thing the ages have gotten to the point where they should begin forgetting things they were taught as 10 yr olds in little league.
i know its not earth shattering but when you cant do things because you’re not that atheletic, you can make up for some of it by being accurate and making good decisions.
were missing on both these points defensivly
Molina isn’t going anywhere. He’s the best backup catcher in the game.
They will keep 3 catchers until they are sure Posada is ok. After that, Moeller will be sent packing.
i want the yanks to call up jason lane and send down shelly duncan cuz hes been strugling lately
“If Moeller gets hot and Molina stays cold. Is it a given that when Posada comes back, Moeller is the one with the short end of the stick?
Absolutely! Molina can’t hit worth crap (save for his doubles), but he is much more valuable than Moeller. Girardi won’t even give it a second thought. Moeller still has time left as Girardi said that he wants to carry 3 catchers at least for the very short term.
” keep noticing that we seem to be clueless about throws home from the OF. game after game, bad throws from the OF which have no chance of getting a runner at the plate are not cut off, giving an extra base and preventing the dp.”
Yeah. We scraped those drills this year with more wind sprints,long distance marathon,40 yard dashes and no candy.
“If Moeller gets hot and Molina stays cold. Is it a given that when Posada comes back, Moeller is the one with the short end of the stick?”
Yes. This isn’t about ‘hot’. Molina is the backup catcher. He’s excellent defensively and excellent with the pitchers.
Also, Molina is signed through 2009.
“A-Rod is 6 of 24 on the trip with three RBI.”
Not sure about Baltimore but didn’t A-Rod have 2 RBI’s in Friday and Saturday’s game? I’m no math major but that is more than 3.
What do you guys think of a mid-season trade to get Doug Mientkiewicz back. I really really liked his hard-nosed style of play, and I miss his defense.
Molina is a much better baseball player than Chad Moeller. There is no comparison between them.
Molina is an excellent backup catcher. Moeller is a good 3rd string catcher.
Moeller was cut by the Nationals this year. Then the Yankees DFA’d him and the rest of the league thought so highly of Moeller that no one claimed him. And that was after Moeller hit well in his short sting playing.
That tells you all you need to know about what teams think of Chad Moeller.
Dougie can’t hit – that’s why he was dropped.
I would love to get Dougie back…On the A-Rod YESterdays he stated that if he had won a WS with the Yankees it would have been better than the one he won with the Sux!!!
They just need some kind of defensive happy medium at first base – how about someone who is somewhere in between Minky and Giambi, who are just about as opposite as you could get at first base.
They also could use someone who hits right handed both now and moving forward into the future. There is going to be a lot of talented left handers in the AL East over the next few years, Tampa especially.
“Dougie can’t hit – that’s why he was dropped.”
This is true. But I cringe everytime there is a ball anywhere near first base, Giambi’s feet are terrible. Betemit also has trouble with balls in the dirt. Mientkiewicz is a sure thing at first, and I think defense can only help us down the stretch. We have the hitting, it just hasn’t come around yet, but it will (I hope!)
“Dougie can’t hit – that’s why he was dropped.”
Agree. But he’s Arods lucky charm. I want to see more 9th inning Arod bombs and heroics. As he displayed last year. So the question to ask yourself is, was it because it was a contract year or Dougie?
“how about someone who is somewhere in between Minky and Giambi”
Isnt that why teams stock up on minor league studs? Keep some, trade some. I think its time to use our chips.
Good afternoon.
I read this weekend that Paul O’Neil was the last player to have hit .400 after 50 games into the season. -1994. As you know Chipper Jones is hitting .405. I have no faith that he can hit .400 but it makes for a interesting story line. He is locked in from both sides of the plate.
Off Topic.
I sometimes read sports headlines and wonder what people from a 3rd world counry would think of our society…This one cracked me up which is currently on espn.com.
“Big Brown’s cracked hoof to require final touch up”
Have a good evening.
-dennis
What about Eric Duncan? I’d love to maybe see him get a shot…
The Yankees need a late inning defensive first baseman. I alsmost died when they brought in Wilson for defense in the late innings the other night!
i dont get it. giambi’s defense has been fine. a defensive first baseman is not a priority
iv said several times that we should have doug and it doesnt matter if he hits, he’s just going in as a late inning d specialist when we’re winning. but most on this blog hate the idea, so i agree to disagree
If you’re going to carry a late-innings defensive replacement, why not carry one for a premium position (SS, OF), as opposed to first base? That’s why I oppose carrying a Doug M. type–if you want to maximize your return on the 25th roster spot, having a good defensive middle infielder who could spell Jeter late in ballgames would seem more useful than a good defensive first baseman who could spell the three-headed monster at 1st.
The correct moves are to send Veras down along with Betemit and Duncan. See more of Patterson, bring up Jason Lane and Gonzo.
michael i agree that Giambi has not been bad at first. he is a heck of a lot better than Shelly and Wilson. I would just like to see a late inning guy.
when you have an all RH bullpen and the other teams are stacking LH hitters, it is a priority.
“Dougie can’t hit – that’s why he was dropped.â€
Whenever I see something say this, I have to laugh. Are Betemit and Duncan hitting any better than Doug did? Giambi has started to come around with the long ball, but the other two are doing Jack Squat. I would love to have a platoon of Giambi and Minky. And I bet we could get him back from PIT w/o giving up too much. I’m sure he’d love to come back as well; PIT sucks!
Could this team be any more .500?
Meanwhile, congratulations to Mo, and Doctor Who is amazing, and I’m watching all sorts of episodes, yay internet!
“One day after claiming the switch-hitting catcher off waivers from Atlanta, Kansas City announced that Pena had been designated for assignment to make room for Saturday’s starting pitcher, Kyle Davies, on the 25-man roster.
As of Monday, there will be a 72-hour window for another club to claim Pena. If he isn’t claimed, the Royals will have the option of assigning Pena to one of their Minor League clubs.”
Giambi has not been good at first base.
There is more to the position than scooping balls out of the dirt.
He’s a very poor first baseman. He’s hitting the heck out of the ball but, let’s not kid ourselves. First base defense has cost this team games this year.
You can’t appreciate what you don’t have defensively at first because for years, we forget what’s its like to have range and an accurate throwing arm at first.
Go back and look at the work of Olerud in 2004, Tino during his time at first and Dougie last year and tell me first base defense has been good this year.
Its been awful.
Giambi being better than Shelley at first isn’t a ringing endorsement. They are both very poor defensive first baseman.
I’m sure the zone ratings will back up my contention.
What to do about it? Hard to say. Not a lot out there right now and nobody in the farm system is good defensively at first.
Its a spot on the roster that will have to be addressed at some point this season if the Yankees have post-season aspirations.
CB ;
I concor with the lefthanded pitching the Rays will have with Kazmir contractually locked in for 4 years along with a fast rising David Price and the righthanded corps of Shields, Sonnanstine, and Garza. Scary and more on the way.
SJ44:
Very well said. You summed up exactly what I was thinking. I felt very confident last year with Dougie patrolling first base. 3-6-3 double-plays do not exist right now for the Yankees.
“Its a spot on the roster that will have to be addressed at some point this season if the Yankees have post-season aspirations.”
Apparently, only the fans think that it’s a problem because Girardi doesn’t seem concerned about it at all. In fact, I never hear him even discuss the 1B situation. I don’t hear the reporters ask him about it either.
The fact that I watch each game praying that no one hits the ball to first or that the guy fielding doesn’t need to make a throw to 2B tells me that there is a problem. Not sure why the bosses don’t see it.
“i dont get it. giambi’s defense has been fine. a defensive first baseman is not a priority”
No, Giambi has been very, very bad. It is a truism that defense at first base doesn’t matter as much as it does at other positions but Giambi is inordinantly bad.
I’d guess he’s on a pace to be 15-20 runs worse than a league average first baseman. That’s giving up a tremendous number of runs at first.
As long as he hits to a .900 OPS he’s still a net positive but his defense really strips away a lot of his value.
Doesn’t Peña play first?
im cool with giambi at 1b for the first 6 or 7 innings or when we’re behind, but its just an accident waiting to happen when we’re protecting a lead and he’s out there.
but on the scale of things we have to fix, its more like 5 or 6, but still something that was forseeable and avoidable imo.
Broussard and/or Lane will have to be up here soon, or let go because of ‘out’ clauses in their contracts. I would expect Lane to get a shot. Broussard is OK, but do we really need another left-handed hitter?
Veras is very overrated, as is Edwar. Smoke and mirrors with that guy.
“the Rays will have with Kazmir contractually locked in for 4 years along with a fast rising David Price and the righthanded corps of Shields, Sonnanstine, and Garza”
^^Very scary!!!!! I’m still kicking myself for picking Verlander instead of Sonnanstine in fantasy. Just kicking myself.
I can’t fathom how the Yankees can carry a waste of a roster spot in Betemit opposed to a late inning defensive 1st baseman such as Doug Mientkiewicz.
It’s not a weakness, it’s a glaring weakness.
“Scary and more on the way.”
With Kershaw in the majors, the rays probably have the two best left handed pitching prospects in baseball in price and mcgee.
McGee is still very raw and is having a mediocre year but has a lot of talent. Might wind up in the pen. But he has front line starter potential
But Kazmir and Price will anchor that staff for years, pending injuries. Add in McGee they could have 3 dynamic lefty starters in the rotation.
Unfortunately right hand hitting is in short supply right now.
Not true. Brian Cashman himself has said defense is a weakness on the team and has to be addressed at some point.
Many Yankee fans have routinely ignored defense for the last 5-6 years. Believing they can hit themselves out of any defensive inadequacies the team possesses.
For a long time that’s been the case. Not this year.
With the offense being a major disappointment so far, you have to find other ways to win games. Defense is one way to do it.
You know what seperates Tampa from NY right now? Its not pitching. Its defense.
Their pitching is good but, their defense makes it much, much better.
Put it another way. Put Wang, Pettitte, Mussina and Rasner, guys who pitch to contact, behind Tampa’s defense and their pitching numbers would be even better than they are right now. That’s how good the Rays defense has been this year.
Those guys save runs with their gloves every night. Its something the Yankees don’t do and when the offense can’t get it going, it lessens their chances of wins.
Girardi is never going to say anything negative about a player publicly. He hasn’t at any point in the season (like Torre in that regard) and isn’t starting now.
i loved dougie but the one that left me scratching was andy phillips, a very good defensive guy with a decent bat. i think he hit .280 last year didnt he? dont know what more they wanted out of the guy and he would have filled that role perfectly.
“Doesn’t Peña play first?”
he can but I think it’s been awhile for him at 1B Rebecca, I don’t see us getting him because he would likely have to recieve a major league deal and w/ Molina,Moeller,Posada this is not likely to happen.
“i loved dougie but the one that left me scratching was andy phillips, a very good defensive guy with a decent bat. i think he hit .280 last year didnt he? dont know what more they wanted out of the guy and he would have filled that role perfectly.”
KING OF BLOOP SUCKED W/ THE BAT, really don’t get me started w/ Andy Philips he’s a journey man AAAA player w/ ok 1B defense.
but for a late innings defensive replacement at 1b whats wrong with a 4a player who plays good d?
“Not true. Brian Cashman himself has said defense is a weakness on the team and has to be addressed at some point.”
Really? And when is that point going to be, in September? We need a real 1B guy right now, not later. Saying that defense is a weakness and then not doing a darn thing about it doesn’t win Cash any brownie points with me.
“Their pitching is good but, their defense makes it much, much better.”
The statistics completely back this up. Tampa has made a startling turn around defensively. They went from one of the worst team defenses last year to one of the best this year.
When people were doing statistical projections on the Rays that suggested that they might win 85-90 games one of the biggest reasons for the dramatic turnaround was due to the runs that their new defense would save.
Defense has been central to Tampa’s season this year. There’s no way around it.
Yes, Minky contributes less than Wilson with the bat. He takes some walks. That’s about it. If he was righty, MAYBE he’s be someone worth talking about. MAYBE. But he’s not. The last thing the Yankees need is a lefty singles hitter.
“how about someone who is somewhere in between Minky and Giambiâ€
His name is Nick Johnson, and we traded him
You can’t just snap your fingers and get a player.
How many teams do you see making trades right now?
There is no trade market right now. Teams don’t do deals this early in the season. Especially when most of the teams are in playoff contention.
The trade deadline is in July. Not June 2.
Right now, the only players available are players who have been DFA’ed by teams. Not exactly guys who can change your season.
As the trade market begins to form, and it will in the next 3 weeks, you get a better idea of who is available.
Right now, unless you want to make 80’s style panic Yankee trades, which isn’t going to happen, you aren’t going to see a lot of trade movement from anybody in baseball for at least another month.
Finally the talk turns back to my man Doug. If any of you have been paying attention Doug has been playing a lot of third base as well…in fact he played rightfield the other day. He’s the perfect choice. Great with the glove, willing to do what it takes.
You put a deal together to get Marte, Doug, and maybe Zach Duke. At least get Doug and Marte…solves the lefty out of the pen issue and gets the Yankees a great glove at first with the right attitude.
“but for a late innings defensive replacement at 1b whats wrong with a 4a player who plays good d?”
and guess what believe it or not Bet can handle that role like he showed on Saturday.
“Really? And when is that point going to be, in September? We need a real 1B guy right now, not later.”
Because no one’s trading useful players right now.
Both Shelly and Morgan had the potential to be useful bats against lefties, and be better than or equal to Giambi at 1B. Especially Morgan. Neither did. But, making a move for the sake of a move is stupid. It makes way more sense wait and make the RIGHT move. The right move is for a decent defensive righty 1B with a solid bat against lefties. Until that move can be made, look for areas other than 1B to upgrade.
“His name is Nick Johnson, and we traded him”
don’t forget Boone
Phillips or Mientkiewicz could have been kept. They were better than any of the “improvements” that were brought in. The problem is being in love with power.
Phillips also played third, and I think they even put him at second once or twice. He’s not a “great” player, but he was good enough and good teammate. Minky has a great glove and was hitting very well before he broke his wrist. He also brought “intangibles” and I don’t think his not being here is why ARod is off to a slow start, but having him sure didn’t hurt.
If you’re looking at Giambi as the everday 1B and not DH, then Phillips or Mientkiewicz were fine.
“His name is Nick Johnson, and we traded him”
He’s hitting .220 and hasn’t played since Mid May.
Once again, if you really want to upgrade the team’s defense–and I am wholeheartedly in support of such a motion–why not focus on the premium positions, like SS, CF, and 2B?
Cano is a plus defensively (despite the common narrative, he has made tremendous strives the past couple of years and rates very well on many fielding range metrics such as PMR, UZR, and +/-), although Melky seems hit-or-miss, despite his strong arm (his routes have traditionally been sub-par, so his range is a bit questionable). Jeter, on the other hand, has consistently been at the bottom for shortstops almost forever, and especially the last half-decade.
Tampa improved its defense, in large part, by shuffling its up-the-middle defense. It moved B.J. Upton off 2nd, where he was absolutely dreadful, and put him in CF, where his speed and athleticism gives him the potential to be plus, and average- to below-average right now. It received an outstanding defensive shortstop in Barlett from the Twins in the Young/Garza trade, and Iwamura has handled 2nd competently (far better than Upton did, to be sure).
So…it is true that Giambi siphons off a lot of his overall value playing first, but the Yankees are a better team with Matsui and Giambi both in the lineup, and Damon’s got good range in left (and his batting line has been getting much better in May). I’m not convinced that a Matsui-LF, Giambi-DH, All-Glove-No-Hit-1B is a better overall net-run producing (RSc-RPv) combination than Damon-LF, Matsui-DH, Giambi-1B, and I’m not convinced that a late-innings defensive replacement at 1st would therefore be as valuable as, say, a late-innings defensive replacement at short, given that shortstop defence is generally more important than first base defence, and when Jeter hurts the Yankees a lot in the field–I would argue more than Giambi hurts the Yankees in the field, when accounting for position, but that’s a legitimatlely debatable point.
It’s important to note that Tulo, who wasn’t exactly a monster offensive shortstop when he was hitting out of Coors (and Coors, while a good hitting park, is no longer the extreme offensive environment it once was), produced a *lot* of value thanks to his defense. Jeter produces a good deal of value on offense, but late-in-the-game, wouldn’t putting a plus-defender at short be more useful than a plus-defender at 1st?
I think pinch-running a shortstop for Giambi, then allowing that shortstop to spell Jeter and place Betemit at first (who is no paragon with the glove, but an upgrade on Giambi) is every bit as good as keeping Jeter in the game and spelling Giambi or Betemit with an all-glove first baseman who is less likely to double as a speed upgrade on the basis, either (not that speed is important, but I’m thinking of overall roster flexibility there, and maximizing the most value from one roster spot).
SJ
An argument I’ve been making for years, there is no wonder to me with this particular team that we have not been close to the winner’s circle. Look no further than the great Yankee team of the 90s and you will see a good defensive team.
Many Yankee fans have routinely ignored defense for the last 5-6 years. Believing they can hit themselves out of any defensive inadequacies the team possesses.
“Right now, unless you want to make 80’s style panic Yankee trades, which isn’t going to happen, you aren’t going to see a lot of trade movement from anybody in baseball for at least another month.”
I agree with that. That’s what I said when people were talking about getting that pitcher from the Rockies. But we have got to do something about 1B. This simply can’t go on.
Anyone care for a little Yankee Roulette?
What’s everyone’s bet for the AL East Standings by the All-Star break? Here are mine:
Tampa Rays
Boston Red Sox ———- 2GB
Toronto Blue Jays ——- 4GB
NY Yankees ————– 5GB
Baltimore Orioles ——- 7GB
I honestly haven’t seen enough from this team to think they’re going to make enough hay in June to change things. Everyone talking about the upcoming “easy schedule” (Interleague) – all these teams will have the same schedule.
What will be interesting is the 3 game Boston-Tampa series starting tomorrow night. NYY fans should hope for a sweep to accumulate some standing points somewhere…
“The right move is for a decent defensive righty 1B with a solid bat against lefties. Until that move can be made, look for areas other than 1B to upgrade.”
….
“The problem is being in love with power.”
Nope. Realizing that OBP and SLG matter more than AVG is a GOOD thing. A guy hitting .270 with all singles is far less useful than a guy hitting .250 with some doubles and homers.
“i loved dougie but the one that left me scratching was andy phillips, a very good defensive guy with a decent bat.”
this is true.
except replace “decent” with awful.
One of this weekend’s games – Yankees up 1-2 runs, men on 1st and 2nd, no outs.
Giambi up. Strikes Out.
That’s where more athleticism pays off. Because the percentages are greater that a bunt a sac fly will plate a run more times than Jason jerking one into the RF seats.
(although I will admit, Tino or Donny would not have laid one down, either)
“What will be interesting is the 3 game Boston-Tampa series starting tomorrow night. NYY fans should hope for a sweep to accumulate some standing points somewhere…”
It will also be interesting to see how TB does on the road. So far, they’ve been doing well at Home. It will be very telling to see if they can keep it up on the road.
“I agree with that. That’s what I said when people were talking about getting that pitcher from the Rockies. But we have got to do something about 1B. This simply can’t go on.”
And our point is that “doing something” just to do something is pointless, and that doing the RIGHT thing would be prohibitively expensive right now because no one wants to trade anyone useful.
I mentioned this the other day…Sexson has been TERRIBLE this year overall and could be a DFA candidate. His defense is pretty good, I think, and he’s actually been hitting lefties pretty well this year in a small sample.
I KNOW THAT HE STRIKES OUT ALL THE TIME. I KNOW. I KNOW. But this is a platoon situation and late-innings replacement situation.
ASSUMING THAT HE HAS BEEN RELEASED, so he costs no players and can be had for the minimum…is he a player you pick up?
“Giambi up. Strikes Out.
That’s where more athleticism pays off. Because the percentages are greater that a bunt a sac fly will plate a run more times than Jason jerking one into the RF seats.”
wow, you’ve really made a killer argument.
one AB.
“One of this weekend’s games – Yankees up 1-2 runs, men on 1st and 2nd, no outs.
Giambi up. Strikes Out.
That’s where more athleticism pays off. Because the percentages are greater that a bunt a sac fly will plate a run more times than Jason jerking one into the RF seats.”
Huh? What about a double or even a single? Wouldn’t either of those produce more runs than a bunt or sacrifice fly?
With the way Giambi has been swinging lately why would he even think about bunting?
“ASSUMING THAT HE HAS BEEN RELEASED, so he costs no players and can be had for the minimum…is he a player you pick up?”
yes. but only under these conditions.
i wouldn’t trade a single player or pick up an salary for him.
I think Tampa will do ok in Half Stadium.
No way on Sexson. He is an automatic strikeout. Doesn’t he have like over 50 whiffs already?
Whozat -
Minky last season, where he missed a lot of time because of his wrist, had 5 HRs and 12 doubles.
Phillips, in 2006 (last year lost too much time) had 7 HRs and 11 doubles.
I’m not sure what you’re looking for in a replacement/utility player.
“Giambi up. Strikes Out.
That’s where more athleticism pays off. Because the percentages are greater that a bunt a sac fly will plate a run more times than Jason jerking one into the RF seats.”
How does athleticism help you hit a sac fly? Or bunt? Being a practiced bunter…ok, maybe. Also…runners were on 1st and 2nd. No sac fly OR bunt would have scored anyone. He’s hitting 5th these days…Are you advocating putting a bunter in the 5th spot in the lineup? Or pinch hitting for Giambi in that situation with a bunter? I don’t understand…
“Jeter, on the other hand, has consistently been at the bottom for shortstops almost forever, and especially the last half-decade.”
That hasn’t been the case this year. Jeter has improved quite a bit on defense. Last year he had a relative zone rating of .777 which was second to worst in the AL (only the abyssmal Jhonny Peralta was worse).
This year Jeter’s relative zone rating is .840 which is 4th highest in the AL. He’s also doing much better with making plays out of zone.
He’s still not a great defensive player but he’s been much better than last year – much better. And subjectively he’s been much better going to his left this year.
There’s a lot of different metrics you can look at for defense (the fielding bible’s plus/minus being the best – but not readily accessible). I personally think relative zone rating is probably the best of the readily available ones, especially for a position like SS where positioning is very important and part of the defensive skill needed to play the position.
What’s hurting Jeter’s value this year is really his bat.
Dan Graziano had an interesting article on Jeter’s defense:
http://www.nj.com/columns/ledg.....amp;coll=1
The Ghost of Andy Fox:
A sacrifice bunt will *always* reduce run scoring expectancy, ALWAYS. Sure, maybe the percent chance of Jason Giambi hitting a home run will be less than the percent chance of a competent bunter laying down a sacrifice, but that’s not enough to definitively say that sacrificing is the better play.
The calculation you need to run in that situation is, is the percent chance of a successful sacrifice bunt higher than the percent chance that the player, permitted to work the count/have an at-bat, does not make an out?
Let’s assume Giambi has an OBP of .400. That means 40% of the time, he will not make an out, and that will *always* be more productive than a sacrifice bunt. Next, you have to figure that in the other 60% of plate appearances, what is the percent chance of a “productive out”? I would argue that it doesn’t need to be particularly high to see that having one of your best hitters (particularly since Giambi’s not likely to get a successful bunt down) give away an out to advance the runners tends to be a worse play than allowing that hitter to work the count and try and get on base via a hit or walk.
Sacrifice bunting can be a useful tool, especially for players at the bottom of the order who lack the ability to avoid outs or slug the ball to drive in runs no matter where the baserunners are on the basepaths.
“What to do about it? Hard to say. Not a lot out there right now and nobody in the farm system is good defensively at first.”
Which is why signing Teixera in the offseason will be hard to pass up for yanks. What other options are there?
On a sac bunt, don’t you also have to look at the guy who’s up AFTER a successful (or even an unsuccessful) bunt?
“No way on Sexson. He is an automatic strikeout. Doesn’t he have like over 50 whiffs already?”
You’ll note that I mentioned several times that I’m aware that he strikes out a lot. I also pointed out that he’s actually hitting lefties well this season and plays decent D (I’m pretty sure). I’m assuming he wouldn’t play much against righties.
“Minky last season, where he missed a lot of time because of his wrist, had 5 HRs and 12 doubles.”
And this season his SLG is around .300, which is heinous.
“Phillips, in 2006 (last year lost too much time) had 7 HRs and 11 doubles.
I’m not sure what you’re looking for in a replacement/utility player.”
Someone who didn’t make an out 72% of the time over that same time frame. Replacement-level offense or better, in other words. At least against lefties. Otherwise, it’s making a move just to make a move.
hmmm,
I really don’t want to make a big deal about his but in light of our conversation last week, I thought it was interesting how Girardi handled that extra inning game against the twins.
Score tied 6-6 on the road he did not put Mariano into the game until he had the lead.
That included using Farnsworth to face the the heart of the Twins order which are left handed hitters. Those were by far the most high leverage outs of the game to that point.
I’m not sure if Girardi has a real take/ philosophy on how he is going to handle those situations as he’s keeps going back and forth.
hey if defensive replacements is what people whine about w/ Jason who’s been hitting in May .315/.446/.644 and an OPS of 1.090 OH YEH HE HURTS THIS LINE UP
CB, I am not ignorant that Jeter has been better defensively this year, but how much of that is a sample-size glitch, as opposed to legitimate defensive improvement?
(Also, for the record, I personally prefer +/- and PMR, even though they’re not necessarily readily available, although RZR is another good one I neglected to mention in my previous post.)
If Jeter *has* turned a corner defensively and can get towards the median of defensive efficiency this year, I will be incredibly happy, even if his bat slips. But looking at track record, and using that as a predictor for future success (even if you account the last hundred or so innings of improvement, in the face of thousands of innings of performance data…), I would bet that Jeter will be closer to the bottom of the defensive shortstop ratings than top. Again, I hope as a fan that I’m wrong, but just as you cannot allow Moeller’s recent performance to hide the fact that Molina’s a better option as a back-up catcher, I don’t think we can necessarily allow that Jeter’s recent defensive performance negates the benefit of having a proven defensive wizard at short as a late-innings replacement.
IF, and only if, Jeter’s defensive improvement turns out to be legitimate *and* significant, do I think you completely disregard the possibility of marginal improvement with a plus-defender up the middle, over the possibility of marginal improvement with a plus-defender on the corners.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3422002
WOW THIS GUY IS A WACKO!!
“Score tied 6-6 on the road he did not put Mariano into the game until he had the lead.”
I think part of that had to do with Mo having pitched 3 of the last four days, and gone long on one of those days. He really didn’t want Mo to work more than one inning. So…I guess he chose to gamble that his team would produce him some more high-leverage outs.
Jason Giambi’s RF is 10.02. That is fourth best among MLB first basemen with 36 or more games played. His zone rating is .836. That ranks him somewhere around 18th. He is ranked around 14th in MLB in FP.
I’ve always felt that firstbase was one of the positions that demanded a good glove and if there was a choice to be made between offense or defense a team should opt for a good defensive player at first. I would like someone at first with a steady glove who could hit .280 and twenty homers over someone like Giambi in his offensive prime.
“Otherwise, it’s making a move just to make a move.”
I don’t understand why you guys keep saying that putting a guy at 1B who can actually field the position is a move just to make a move. Since when is wanting to cut down on errors (or almost errors) and actually turning a double play inconsequential? This “it is what it is” approach is going to keep us languishing at the bottom of the AL East.
“CB, I am not ignorant that Jeter has been better defensively this year, but how much of that is a sample-size glitch, as opposed to legitimate defensive improvement?”
It’s a valid point. We also have circumstantial evidence that Jeter has been historically dismissive of studying scouting reports to improve his positioning. Reportedly, the team approached him this offseason about starting to do that, along with targeting his workouts at improved lateral motion. He, apparently, agreed. That could be an indicator that at least some of his improved defensive efficiency is more than an illusion.
Phillips was FINE as a late-inning defensive replacement. and if he were still in that role, he’d be ok.
the problem is that a late-inning defensive replacement at FIRST BASE is not the type of guy you bend over backwards to make sure he has a roster spot.
when there was a roster crunch, he had the chance to allow himself to be removed and take a minor league deal. this is what Rasner agreed to do.
Phillips, as was his right, decided to take his chances elsewhere. i do not begrudge him that one bit, but at the same time, i don’t blame the organization for removing him from the roster.
he’s 31, has had over 500 PA’s, and hasn’t hit at all. what more did you want the Yankees to do?
Whozat -
I’m not saying I want Minky or Phillips back. I don’t think you move backwards. For the most part, once a player is gone, he’s gone. I’m only saying that what they Yankees have instead of those two isn’t much better. And, really, who knows how a particular player would do with one team over another?
Basically they replaced Phillips and Mientkiewicz with Duncan and Ensberg. What was the attraction of Duncan? It wasn’t his defense, so you can’t think of him as a defensive replacement. His attraction was POWER. The idea that perhaps he could come off the bench and hit one out, or replace Giambi or Abreu for a day and hit one out. He’s not even a singles hitter.
Ensberg was a total roll of the dice. If he worked out, they were looking for right-handed power off the bench. POWER. So, again, I say they were in love with power. Ensberg was okay defensively but not at 1st.
I see that there are just some players that some people will never see a positive about. I’ve never held Phillips or Mientkiewicz out to be stellar players, but I thought they both did their jobs fine last year.
I give your parents a D
“if there was a choice to be made between offense or defense a team should opt for a good defensive player at first. I would like someone at first with a steady glove who could hit .280 and twenty homers”
What is the OBP of this mythical player? If it’s league average, you’ve got a pretty good player there…and OBVIOUSLY you’d want that kind of player at first base. That’s not the kidn of player that people are talking about getting. They’re talking about Minky and Phillips, who have an OPS in the .600s these days.
I think that Andy Phillips was a great first baseman, he just didn’t have the bat.
I think that the Yankees should adress 1b in the draft thursday along with pitching like usual.
i’m browsing the comments today and notice we’re talking possible late inning defensive 1Bmen. and i’m noticing half the arguments against the suggestions are “he only hits 220″ or “he strikes out too much” or “barely any power”…
” I would like someone at first with a steady glove who could hit .280 and twenty homers over someone like Giambi in his offensive prime.”
well, it’s your right to have your opinion no matter how wrong it is.
“I give your parents a D”
This is, by far, the funniest post I’ve read all year.
Doreen, what they did in my opinon is replace two defensively sound players in Minky and Philips in attempt to get more offense out of first base and came away with neither.
Saucy –
Isn’t it something? It always, ALWAYS, comes down to hitting numbers, doesn’t it?
I also want to add, that one of the reasons I wanted them to keep Doug Mientkiewicz is because I went out of my way to learn how to spell that name correctly. For all of us who did so, I think it was incumbent upon the Yankees to keep him for one more season!
It is for this reason I also want to see Mark Teixeira on next year’s team, because I have prepared for this by learning how to spell his name correctly, also.
“Ensberg was a total roll of the dice. If he worked out, they were looking for right-handed power off the bench. POWER. So, again, I say they were in love with power. Ensberg was okay defensively but not at 1st.”
Actually, the thing about Ensberg is that he’d traditionally showed a very good eye at the plate in addition to teh ability to hit some doubles and homers. Especially against lefties. Historically, he fit the Yankee mold of looooong ABs that ended in a walk or a ball hit hard somewhere. He didn’t get back to that. OK. Also, as a 3B, you figure he could grow into a decent 1B, especially in terms of hot-shots and covering the line.
As for Shelley, what I remember Torre saying about him most was that he WASN’T just looking to hit one out. That he went to the plate with a solid fundamental approach. I don’t think we saw any of that this year. But I think that it was THAT assessment that got him the spot on the team. Because, while I agree that FANS love Shelley for the long-ball, I think the team noticed that he was pretty good at working an AB for a bench guy last season. Again, we haven’t seen that same approach this season.
Rhapsody in Blue -
You and I are in agreement on that one.
Hmmm
That’s close to what we had with Tino, Chambliss and Moose Skowron. See a pattern there?
†I would like someone at first with a steady glove who could hit .280 and twenty homers over someone like Giambi in his offensive prime.â€
well, it’s your right to have your opinion no matter how wrong it is.
“I give your parents a D”
higher grade than I would have given
…I do recall reading that earlier this year, whozat, and it must have completely slipped my mind. Well, I’m more optimistic Jeter’s defense is improving (there have certainly been more than one game this year where I was shocked to see him field balls to his left that we’ve seen him miss year after year), and I hope it isn’t just a desert mirage (and, if so, it does admittedly weaken my point that a defense-first SS would be relatively more useful than a defense-first 1B as the 25th member of the bench).
…if it turns out that a defense-first 1B is the best way to round out the bench and improve defensive performance, of course I would not object, I’m still not quite convinced we can say that, yet. I do think it’s a valid argument to make, of course, and I’m not disputing that, but I don’t think improved 1st base defense is the magic elixer some seem to think it is…
“I also want to add, that one of the reasons I wanted them to keep Doug Mientkiewicz is because I went out of my way to learn how to spell that name correctly. For all of us who did so, I think it was incumbent upon the Yankees to keep him for one more season!”
Well, you’ve got one up on me because I still don’t know how to spell his name…even though you included it in your post!!!
Here in Denver there was a brief mention that the Yankees might be interested in starting talks again with the rockies for Brian Fuentes. Wonder if any of these “pitchers” are being paraded to make that trade?
The mention in the article is that Fuentes would fill Joba’s spot in the bridge to the greatest relief pitcher ever.
Sandman is calling, time to close your eyes.
“i’m browsing the comments today and notice we’re talking possible late inning defensive 1Bmen. and i’m noticing half the arguments against the suggestions are “he only hits 220″ or “he strikes out too much†or “barely any powerâ€â€¦”
Because having a guy who’s job is solely late-innings 1B is a waste of a roster spot. If you’re going to have another 1B, he needs to fill some other role on the team as well. The Yankees DESPERATELY need another bat that can handle lefty pitching. If you’re going to go out and expend talent in a trade, you want to bring back someone you want to keep around. Getting a defensive 1B who meets none of your other needs is a waste of trade chips.
“I really don’t want to make a big deal about his but in light of our conversation last week, I thought it was interesting how Girardi handled that extra inning game against the twins.
Score tied 6-6 on the road he did not put Mariano into the game until he had the lead.”
trust me, i noticed.
but i think it’s logical to assume that based on his workload, Mariano was only availble for ONE inning.
while i am a big proponent of using your closer in a tie game on the road, it is largely because i am looking to use your closer for TWO innings.
i still think Girardi did NOT manage it as i would have, but i think the strategy is a little different when you only have Mo for 1 inning. in that case, even in the best case scenario, you have someone else closing out the game. when Mo can go 2 innings, you are giving yourself 1 chance to score AND have Mo close the game.
that said, i would have gone to Mo before Farnsworth to face Morneau. no doubt.
“but I don’t think improved 1st base defense is the magic elixer some seem to think it is…”
No, but it’s a step in the right direction and something that we should be able to fix.
Fallen Phoenix,
I like your posts and was in no way suggesting you were ignorant. Your posts are always well thought out. I was just bringing up data that you had not included in your post.
And as I said in my post, I also generally like +/- but if you can’t get the data then it’s of limited value. So I agree with you there.
As for the future and Jeter’s defense – we’ll have to see how his defense does. But so far this season his defense hasn’t been terrible and there’s been no need to substitute for him defensively late in the game. Again, that’s what’s happened empirically so far. And so far there would be no advantage to taking him out in late game situations.
I do think there is concrete evidence to base the idea that Jeter has truly improved on defense.
I think the main reason his defense was so particularly horrible last season was due to his knee. I think the injury he had was much worse than he let on – he wasn’t running well just getting down the line.
In the off season he also changed his work out regimen and started doing speed training to improve his defense.
Finally, he started to change the way he positions himself on the field. Graziano’s article describes this and how he’s approaching defensive positioning differently this year compared to last.
We’ve completed 1/3 of the season. His RZR of .840 in many ways makes the best point estimate for his future performance this season we have. This is no longer a “small sample” and his statistical performance to date isn’t the result of a sample-size glitch. This is particularly true of a position like SS which is a high volume of chances position.
Jeter’s defense may regress but that would likely be due to physical deterioration, IMO, rather than sample size issues. Fielding is a more constant and less streaky skill than hitting.
With Giambi at first base is bad enough where defensive improvement at what is traditionally not a big defensive position may not only be marginal. For an example of how first base defense can make a dramatic difference in player value, compare Albert Pujol’s WARP last year to Prince Fielder’s.
Not saying the yankees could find a Pujols level defensive replacement but when your first baseman could be -20 runs, it’s no longer an issue of marginal improvement. In many ways, being -20 at first base is worse than being -20 at SS because it’s even harder for a first base bat to make up the lost runs than at SS due to the relative different in league average performance at the respective positions.
“That’s close to what we had with Tino, Chambliss and Moose Skowron. See a pattern there?”
In Tino’s good years, he was also getting on base nearly 36% of the time. That’s an important part of the equation.
Also…Giambi in his offensive prime is a truly potent force. I’d not trade ANYTHING for that player. The guy we have now, I’d take Tino in HIS prime over that in a heartbeat.
like i said, i just have to agree to disagree on this point, but i didnt start saying this after ensberg and duncan started proving they couldnt play the position, i started saying it when they released minky and phillips.
and another thing, when i talk about a late inning defensive replacement and ppl here keep saying one or the other cant hit, theres obviously a missed connection there.
anyway as i said above, well just have to agree to disagree.
re: nick johnson, the guy was known and ‘injury prone’ when we had him, since leaving, he hasnt played more than 120 games in a season. hes not the anwer to anything, even though i like the guy alot.
I am someone who has always thought that have top-flight defense at 1B was critical. That said,
“Apparently, only the fans think that it’s a problem because Girardi doesn’t seem concerned about it at all. In fact, I never hear him even discuss the 1B situation. I don’t hear the reporters ask him about it either.”
I absolutely agree with this Laura. Therefore I would say we can expect to see Giambi at least the rest of this season. I don’t care how many posters complain about Giambi’s defense, I am convinced he isn’t going anywhere.
I also agree with Bronx that it would be good if the Yanks did to Giambi what the Sux do with the big fat one when they play in the NL – or an important game – and that is remove him for defensive purposes in the later innings in games where we don’t have a resounding lead.
Also, I will continue to say his D isn’t as bad as those who want him dead make it out to be.
“Not saying the yankees could find a Pujols level defensive replacement but when your first baseman could be -20 runs, it’s no longer an issue of marginal improvement.”
But that depends on playing time. How often are we talking about taking Giambi off the field, really? How much defensive improvement would we get for replacing Giambi’s glove with Pujols’ (glove ONLY
) for an inning or two every game?
“That’s close to what we had with Tino, Chambliss and Moose Skowron. See a pattern there?”
what does this prove?
my objection wasn’t to the comment that we can’t have a guy with 20 HRs and great defense. that would be fine if we could find someone like that.
my objection was to the “Giambi in his prime” comment.
i’m not sure you realize how good Giambi in his prime was.
take a look at Giambi’s 2000 and 2001 season and then tell me you would take Chris Chambliss over that.
like i said, maybe you still would, but you would be wrong.
“theres obviously a missed connection there.”
The missed connection is that when you have a bench of three people (not including backup C), those guys need to serve multiple purposes. Your backup OFer AND pinch runner. Your backup 1b/RFer AND platoon righty bat. Your backup IFer AND lefty pop off the bench, etc etc.
Hey, just perusing more of the posts.
Why would someone who gives Mariano Rivera a “B” this season even bother posting. This guy is either pulling our leg with his posts or enjoys playing the idiot.
Thinking about this more has Mo ever won player of the month before?? I can see where player of the week this might be his first time as one would either a starting pitcher who has had mutiple great outings or an offensive player might make more sense for the week. BUT if he has never won player of the month then it is even more astonishing.
trisha that was the long awaited post on why our season will be a failure it took only 6 hrs to come up w/ it, show some appreciation
What I find very interesting is how out of one side of a person’s mouth it is said that 1B is a very under-rated defensive position and they are highly critical of Giambi’s abilities (or lack thereof), and that especially late in games, more attention should be paid to the ability of the 1B. Out of the other side of the same mouths you have people saying that assumptions can be made about whether a guy can play there based on how he plays another position.
I realize you don’t want a roster spot taken up by a guy who can ONLY play 1B. So, I’ll give you that maybe Minky wasn’t the guy; but Phillips could play several positions and I don’t thing he was awful at the plate. He was not as good as I’d hoped he’d become, but he was not awful.
Anyway, 1B is not a position I see the Yankees doing anything more about in a permanent way during this season. Maybe they’ll send Duncan down for a spell and bring up that Lane guy. But I don’t really expect much to come of that.
“But that depends on playing time. How often are we talking about taking Giambi off the field, really? ”
That’s true. I wasn’t clear. I wasn’t advocating carrying a defensive firstbase man to use in late innings situations. Betemit and or Lane may have to suffice.
I was more pointing to how playing Giambi at first really does subtract from his value in ways that aren’t marginal if he was replaced there.
Which i guess that’s a completely seperate issue.
So I do agree that a late inning replacement would only lead to marginal benefit.
so if phillips plays 1b, 3B and runs the bases well, how is that different than ensberg.
and if dougie m plays 1b, 3b, and OF and can bunt, how is that different than ensberg?
the difference is that both those guys actually would have been used, unlike ensberg.
Gayle -
On May 4, 2005, Major League Baseball and DHL introduced the first winner of a new, officially-sanctioned Major League Baseball award recognizing the most outstanding relief pitcher for each month of the regular season. The “DHL Presents the Major League Baseball Delivery Man of the Month Award” is one of two new MLB-sanctioned, DHL-sponsored awards, part of a sponsorship agreement announced in March between Major League Baseball (MLB), Major League Baseball Advanced Media (MLBAM) and DHL, the world’s leading express delivery and logistics company. DHL is the “Official Express Delivery and Logistics Provider” of both Major League Baseball and Major League Baseball Advanced Media.
Mariano won that award this April! I have to believe he’s one it before. I googled to find it.
“Why would someone who gives Mariano Rivera a “B†this season even bother posting. This guy is either pulling our leg with his posts or enjoys playing the idiot.”
Yup. Either way.
Steve Hamilton and the Folly floater.
The Dad’s are playing the kids in our little league today so I thought I’d throw a few Folly Floaters. For you 96ers here’s a you tube video of Yankee Great Steve Hamilton showing how it’s done.
It was a simpler time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFvp7kMraAw
Let’s go Yankees! Let’s get a win tonight.
Mariano Rivera of the New York Yankees has been selected as the winner of “DHL Presents the Major League Baseball Delivery Man of the Month Award” for April, it was announced today. This officially-sanctioned Major League Baseball (MLB) award recognizes the most outstanding relief pitcher during each month of the regular season.
Rivera was a perfect 8-for-8 in save opportunities in April, which is his best start to a season since he converted his first 12 chances in 2004. The right-hander allowed no earned runs in 10 games, striking out 11 batters over 11.0 innings pitched and surrendering just four hits. In 12 appearances so far this season, he has yet to issue a walk. Rivera’s 451 saves are the most ever in the American League and puts him third on the all-time list behind Trevor Hoffman (529) and Lee Smith (478). His 799 career appearances are 277 more than any other pitcher in Yankees history (Dave Righetti is second with 522). The eight-time All-Star won the “DHL Presents the Major League Baseball Delivery Man of the Year Award” in 2005 and 2006.
In recognition of this honor, DHL will donate $1,500 to the United Youth Baseball League in the Bronx in Rivera’s name. This donation will be made in conjunction with the Baseball Tomorrow Fund (BTF), a joint initiative of Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association. In addition, Rivera will be recognized in a special advertisement today in USA Today.
The “DHL Presents the Major League Baseball Delivery Man of the Month Award” winner is selected by a special Major League Baseball “yellow-ribbon” panel that includes Mike Bauman, national columnist for MLB.com; Darryl Hamilton, former Major League outfielder and a member of the MLB On-Field Operations staff; Jerome Holtzman, the official MLB Historian and a member of the writer’s wing of the Hall of Fame; and Bob Watson, Vice President, On-Field Operations, Major League Baseball.
At the conclusion of the season, Major League Baseball fans will have the opportunity to determine which relief pitcher had the best overall season and deserves the fourth-annual “DHL Presents the Major League Baseball Delivery Man of the Year Award” A list of finalists will be selected based on statistical qualifiers, and fans will be able to vote for the winner online at MLB.com, the official Web site of Major League Baseball. Last season, Jonathan Papelbon of the Boston Red Sox was named the recipient of the “DHL Presents the Major League Baseball Delivery Man of the Year Award”
thanks for the folly floater.
i remember phil niekro threw a few of those in his yankee days (the only changeup possible from his 81mph fastball)
“Giambi up. Strikes Out.
That’s where more athleticism pays off. Because the percentages are greater that a bunt a sac fly will plate a run more times than Jason jerking one into the RF seats.â€
I have to say. This is the first time that one post recieved the all start tri-fecta.
hmmm,raymangnetic and whozat jumped all over this simotaniously. At least thats something this post can brag about. Its in the record books. Sort of like guys giving up record breaking jacks.
Y’s Guy
I don’t think we’ll ever be able to convince anyone that Doug M. and Andy Phillips were adequate. This is one of those arguments that will go on to infinity. That’s okay, as long as you know that going in, I guess.
“so if phillips plays 1b, 3B and runs the bases well, how is that different than ensberg. ”
really? you don’t see the difference?
Andy Phillips: .251/.293/.381
Morgan Ensberg: .263/.362/.468
Ensberg vs. LHP: .278/.400/.512
Phillips vs, LHP: .213/.250/.284
it didn’t work out, but comparing Phillips to Ensberg is silly. Ensberg, at one point, was a very good major league player. Phillips has never been a good major league player.
the Yankees were rolling the dice that Ensberg’s shoulder had healed and he would regain his form. he didn’t. and the Yankees cut their losses and moved on quickly.
Phillips sucks. i can’t believe people are still talking about him.
“so if phillips plays 1b, 3B and runs the bases well, how is that different than ensberg.”
Phillips DOESN’T run the bases well. Also, there were indications that Ensberg would actually get on base (ie not make outs) at an acceptable rate, and maybe even bang out some extra base hits. He didn’t. Oh well. Phillips could have stayed in the organization before they even talked about Ensberg. He didn’t, because Shelley’d moved ahead of him on the depth chart. Ok, that happens. He decided to try out a different organization. AFTER that, they gave Ensberg a minor league deal (which Phillips turned down with the Yanks) and invited him to spring training. So, to act as though a choice was made between the two of them ignores what actually went on.
“and if dougie m plays 1b, 3b, and OF and can bunt, how is that different than ensberg?”
And saying that Minky “plays OF and 3B” is a HUGE stretch. Miguel Cairo “plays OF” too if all that means is you’ve seen a few innings out there.
“Which is why signing Teixera in the offseason will be hard to pass up for yanks. What other options are there?”
Using our minor league to pull off a trade for a young stud first baseman. I cant agree with the notion that Tex is all thats out there. We have one of the best minor league systems out there. Why not use our strength to fill a weakness.
I’m all for aiming for LaPorta in the offseason
well, doreen, like i said before, its like #5 on the to do list, but it was just so forseeable…. oh well….
“Phillips sucks. i can’t believe people are still talking about him.”
But with ANDY it’s because they never gave him a chance. With Morgan, it’s because he’s terrible. Don’t you see?!?! Reality changes based on how nice someone’s story is!
im with you sos27, tex is a last resort at 1b, there is noise that howard and/or fielder are available, and if you dont like them, thier movement will make 2 other guys available, there might be a pretty active market at 1B.
jesus SF release or trade Erick Threets to us already, Im tired of hitting refresh on my computer.
“Using our minor league to pull off a trade for a young stud first baseman. I cant agree with the notion that Tex is all thats out there. We have one of the best minor league systems out there. Why not use our strength to fill a weakness.”
I see your point, but I think tehre are some other weaknesses that could use addressing. The OF, for instance. If I had to pick between trading for a stud 1B and a solid corner OFer to replace Abreu…I think I do the latter and take the draft pick for Bobby.
“Shelley Duncan is 2 for 20″
Oh Shelley. Love the kid. But kinda dead weight imo.
despite your emotional hatred of phillips, you have to admit that letting both those guys go without a plan for someone who could actually PLAY 1B when you knew that giambi was going to be your starting firstbaseman was a major screw-up.
hmmm,
Good to see you here. Let me know where i to send the bill for laughing so hard. Again. Pleasure reading your stuff.
“despite your emotional hatred of phillips, you have to admit that letting both those guys go without a plan for someone who could actually PLAY 1B when you knew that giambi was going to be your starting firstbaseman was a major screw-up.”
It’s not emotional. It’s based on the fact that, given plenty of ABs, he’s never produced anything that warrants giving him playing time. As for 1B defense, I still think that going in expecting guys like Enbserg and Betemit to get a lot of time there was a fine decision. Neither of them has really bothered me around the 1B bag.
ok, so you guys knock me for liking phillips or dougie for a defensive 1B, and then say ensberg was a better choice?
id say thats game set match to me, not that i care that much.
ensberg sucks, was finished 2 years ago (gee ,what might’ve caused THAT?) and you two are just making yourselves look foolish.
“jesus SF release or trade Erick Threets to us already, Im tired of hitting refresh on my computer.”
Yes. We miss Sean Henn so much that we MUST have a replacement!
alright people see you later.
*Yankee FO Shelley Duncan for Erick Threets (not saying do it but think about it)
I’m all for aiming for LaPorta in the offseason
Not a bad idea, I just looked up his stats this season in AA, .284, 14 HR, 48 RBI, .970 OPS. Wow. He would probably cost a lot though and Tex would only cost money and a draft pick. I think there is a very high probability that the Yanks throw $100 mil + at Tex this offseason.
whozat he doesn’t throw 90 mph he has more upside but I get it, meanwhile I’ll be watching Sanchez pitch later. Until later lohud.
Y’s Guy,
I see your point in bringing up Doug and Andy. If i had to choose a DEFENSIVE replacement for this team. You gave me this years bench or last years. I would have to go with 07. I dont think they thought that all these guys wouldnt pan out. From Duncan to Ensburg to Betimet. The good news is we’re no longer talking about replacing a starter. We’re up to bench now. VERY GOOD NEWS. Even though id still want Damon flipped. Oh forget it.
“despite your emotional hatred of phillips, you have to admit that letting both those guys go without a plan for someone who could actually PLAY 1B when you knew that giambi was going to be your starting firstbaseman was a major screw-up.”
not at all. i actually LIKED Andy Phillips. i WANTED him to succeed badly. he was nice guy who paid his dues in the minors. i love to root for guys who came out of our farm system.
but that doesn’t make him a good player.
“ensberg sucks, was finished 2 years ago”
Yeah, this line against lefties would be AWFUL in our lineup.
.257/.345/.486
That was Morgan last year. Above average OBP, solid slugging.
Reading through these posts about 1b. Really there is nothing out there except for a few unprovens.
This talk about Andy Phillips and Doug M is ridiculous. Neither of them will help the Yankees fill the hole at 1st. Phillips is a nice story but strictly a streaky fast ball hitter. Doug M is just defensive with the same streakiness.
If the combination of average skills – assuming Giambi is below average – and streaky hitting are the only options, the Yankees take their lumps this year with the failed experiment known as Shelley Duncan.
“gee ,what might’ve caused THAT?”
i’d guess the torn ligament in his shoulder, but hey, keep insuating someone is a cheater when you have absolutely no evidence.
With Jay Bruce in the majors Matt Laporta may be the best position player prospect in the minors at this time.
He’s probably a better hitter than even his numbers suggest – he was only drafted last year and is already dominating AA.
He’d be perfect for the yankees. But then he’d be perfect for most teams in the league.
But you can always hope…
“whozat he doesn’t throw 90 mph he has more upside but I get it”
Henn throws harder than that too. Not the 97 he threw before surgery, but 93ish.
Anyway.
ensberg was the biggest waste of a roster spot this team has had in years. he had nothing, dont go throwing me his part time #’s from the n.l. last year and say that made him a good choice for this year’s yankees. my spike owen bobblehead would have contributed just as much as ensberg to this club.
“I see your point, but I think tehre are some other weaknesses that could use addressing. The OF, for instance. If I had to pick between trading for a stud 1B and a solid corner OFer to replace Abreu…I think I do the latter and take the draft pick for Bobby.”
whozat,
Why not plug both with our pitching rich minor league. I mentioned Juan Rivera for a year till the youngins are ready. That is if his leg is fully healed.
I just think that first base is harder to fill than our outfield. Again, these guys are all rotting in the minors. Some peoples trash is others treasure. You might laugh at me for saying this but even a guy like Chase Wright could be packaged for someone decent. We know he isnt going to smell the big league team again. Time to let the hard work of Cashman payoff.
My point being the three played on multiple championship teams who played good defense as well as offense.
But Chambliss gave more to the team then offensive numbers, he played stellar defense and one of the reasons he played on two WS Championship teams. I am of the school that you cannot slug your way to championships, offense can only take you so far.
I remember the 2005 play-off series against the Tigers when Giambi blew two 3-6-3 double plays in the same series, might have the same game.
I for one understand why we cannot get beyond the first round the AL play-offs.
“That’s close to what we had with Tino, Chambliss and Moose Skowron. See a pattern there?â€
what does this prove?
In other news and as usual, the players get paid on the 1st and 15th of the month.
Carl Pavano was 1st in line at the Stadium as always, got his check and cashed it at a bank on the way to Arthur Avenue for lunch.
Ahhhhhh …. life is good.
IMO Posada is being rushed back and will likely re-injure himself.
Guys am i missing something?
We are talkin about just a late inning replacement right? Unless my eyes were lying to me. I would give the edge to Doug first
Phillips second
Ensburg third(not much time there)
Betimet last
Im not just looking at the best scouper in that position either.
“If I had to pick between trading for a stud 1B and a solid corner OFer to replace Abreu…I think I do the latter and take the draft pick for Bobby.”
Abreu will likely be a type A player. But if he signs with any team that has a pick from 1-15 the yankees don’t get a first round pick.
I’m not sure if supplemental picks are worth letting Abreu goes.
It’s an interesting choice. Letting a guy like Bobby go for a mid first round draft choice and supplementals is attractive in many ways.
But replacing him will be very difficult.
As a point I have to make, russ m, your grades are pretty off in some points. Mo has a B??????????? Are you kidding me what gave him a B his .36 ERA, his 15 out of 15 saves????? I don’t know. Also, Matsui is our best hitter and is leading the league in hitting and he has a B????? You got to be kidding. Joba also shouldn’t have a B and what about Ramirez? Granted he is still unproven, so far this year he has only given up one run, you can’t give him a B for that.
“whozat,
Why not plug both with our pitching rich minor league. I mentioned Juan Rivera for a year till the youngins are ready.”
Because to get quality for both positions, you’re starting to talk about depleting all the minor league depth. You’re not going to get good players by trading 4 mediocre minor leaguers. I’ve thought of Juan Rivera before too. I think he’s a solid bat (if healthy), but I think he makes the D worse than Bobby. So, that’s a consideration. I think he could be had for not _too_ much, but then again, he’s not shown that he’s healthy yet, and they don’t have anyone in AAA behind him, so if he flops…eek.
I mean…yeah, they could probably get Ryan Garko and Juan Rivera without depopulating the system. But if you’re talking about making a move for a stud 1B and and a stud RFer, you’re going to have no AAA/AA starting depth next year. And we see how important that is.
“Abreu will likely be a type A player. But if he signs with any team that has a pick from 1-15 the yankees don’t get a first round pick.
I’m not sure if supplemental picks are worth letting Abreu goes. ”
Depends on what he’s asking for
His OBP is way down. I’d want to see him put up a representative season, and I’d REALLY not want to give him more than 2+ a team option.
gargoyle, i dont know if jorge’s being rushed back to early but there is a very high risk of reinjury no matter what. remember that he took time out twice before since ST to rest and heal it, and both times, he reinjured it quickly.
i am glad they are keeping 2 C’s when he first comes back, id like to see them try him at 1B some, too b/c i think its very likely he will reinjure it when he goes behind the plate.
CB,
My point about Abreu is that someone out there will give him more years and more money than us. IMO we wont overpay a year(Posada,Mo,Alex)to keep him here. In that case, we have to fill that position temperaritly till our minor leaguers are ready to step up. Who would say could do take his place and hold down the fort without giving up an arm and a leg for?
I would also not give Abreu more than 2 years. I think he’d take that deal from the yankees, however.
rivera is a fa after this season, so if they want him in rf next year, they dont have to give up anything but the money.
Here’s a thought for 1B next year. Sean Casey + Kendry Morales. That should really be a not-too-costly option that could actually perform pretty well. I know Morales is a butcher over there and he’s an angel so he doesn’t walk all that much, but Casey plays good D and gets on base pretty well.
For the record, I became a big Abreu fan after seeing his reaction to hitting Blackburn yesterday. Very cool.
-dennis
“rivera is a fa after this season, so if they want him in rf next year, they dont have to give up anything but the money.”
Ah. fair enough. He’d be a backup that I’d keep on my radar if Abreu asks for too much. I’d want to bring in some other low-cost options too, though, in the spring.
Be nice to get a win tonight. Move to 8-2 in the last 10. That’d be pretty solid.
Does anybody know whats going on with Humberto Sanchez what are the chances we see this kid in 08? Peter ask one of your boys down in the minors…please
“My point about Abreu is that someone out there will give him more years and more money than us.”
I don’t think that’s the case. Abreu has been through a lot of ups and downs in his career – he never made the fans or management happy in Philly.
He also is coming off a huge contract.
He seems genuinely happy on the yankees and even more importantly, comfortable in his role as what is essentially a supporting player to ARod and Jeter.
I don’t know if he’s just going to shop himself to the highest bidder. With the yankees the issue won’t be the per year average – they’re not going to put forward an “insulting” offer.
It’ll be the number of years. I could see Abreu being OK with a two year deal given where he is in his career and his comfort level. But I could be wrong.
The free agent crop of OF is very bad this year. So I won’t be easy to replace him. It would have to be through a trade.
whozat,
In that case i would prefer to use the chips for a first baseman. The reason being is that we have some outfielders that will be ready in the not so distant future. But first base? Thats another story. Unless that stud catcher is going to make the transition(Morales i think).
“Does anybody know whats going on with Humberto Sanchez what are the chances we see this kid in 08? Peter ask one of your boys down in the minors…please”
He hasn’t thrown in organized games yet, at all. The chances he’ll be seen in the bronx this year are pretty low.
“In that case i would prefer to use the chips for a first baseman. The reason being is that we have some outfielders that will be ready in the not so distant future.”
It’s waaaaaay to early to be worrying about that. I mean, yeah, you don’t feel the need to go after a 26 year old stud because that could block someone. But, you shouldn’t not go after a solid 30 year old guy (say) because you’re worried about blocking a guy who’s 21 and put together about 5 good months of baseball so far in AA and below.
And the Catcher is Montero in A ball. It’s too early to know what his deal is going to be. And he’s 19.
“The free agent crop of OF is very bad this year. So I won’t be easy to replace him. It would have to be through a trade.”
As you guys have stated 2 years is MAX. So if the Mets lets say come in with a 4 year deal(not far fetched with how they overpay for players). Why wouldnt he jump ship? Its in N.Y. and he wouldnt be the main focus on that team. Plus im sure his agent knows that its a this market and he’s on top of the list. Just saying.
i like ajax alot but there are 2 of spots available (3 if you count melky) after ‘09, so ajax shouldn’t have any effect on what they do about abreu.
Thanx Whozat I figured as much just read something about him throwing to live batters in the next week maybe hes a september call-up u never know and I thought Vlad Guerrero was an FA and Teixeira is too
“Why wouldnt he jump ship?”
He very well might.
But have you seen what the mets fans think of and how they treat carlos beltran?
If they give Abreu a significant contract for say 4 years they are going to demand big time performance. I don’t know if Abreu wants that at this point in his career.
Santana was booed at Shea with his first mediocre start.
Santana’s agent is Peter Greenberg. He’s Abreu’s agent as well.
Abreu will have a very good sense of what he’s in for with the Mets, especially a Mets team that could be coming off a very disappointing season.
I still don’t see Bobby going anywhere, just doesn’t make sense for him and us.
I would re-sign Abreu to a 2-3 year deal and make a move (trade/FA signing) for any 1st baseman not named Texiera.
Nothing against the guy personally. But contracts like that one are the reason this team has no flexibility in the trade market. Texiera will cost 140 million over 6-7 years. And I’m not sure he even makes the team better.
With that being said, I’m starting to come around to the idea of going after Sabathia, but only under certain circumstances. Pettitte’s season has been far from stellar, and he always said he’d hang them up when he wasn’t performing up to his own expectations. So if he retires and Mussina isn’t brought back, you can’t have Wang as the only experienced starter in your rotation.
And with pitching being what it is, and how mediocre starters are getting 12 million a year as free agents, why not get the best starter available and pay 20 million? I’d cringe at any deal longer than 5 years, but it may have to be done.
Also, I think the chances of Mussina coming back on a one year deal are higher than most people think, especially if he continues to pitch decent. Remember, he took less money 2 years ago to re-sign. I doubt he’d reject a one year deal for 8-10 million.
Say Mussina and Pettitte leave after this season leaving us Joba, Wang, and three question marks, do you guys suggest we let the cards fall or go after Sabathia/Sheets?
“I thought Vlad Guerrero was an FA and Teixeira is too”
Vlad has a team option, I think. And, also, he can’t play the field well or full time anymore. His legs are toast.
And we were explicitly discussing non-Tex options. The 1B conversation isn’t that interesting if you assume that they sign Tex for it
Looking for an update…has Geise joined the team from AAA yet, and who has or will be sent down?
“do you guys suggest we let the cards fall or go after Sabathia/Sheets?”
Go after Sabathia regardless, but don’t do anything stupid (like give 7 years). Avoid Sheets like it’s your job. The guy can’t stay on the field, but with the market the way it is, someone will pay him like he can.
“Looking for an update…has Geise joined the team from AAA yet, and who has or will be sent down?”
He hasn’t and we don’t know. That won’t happen til tomorrow, since they want him to shadow Joba. They wouldn’t use him today anyhow.
“Here’s a thought for 1B next year. Sean Casey + Kendry Morales. That should really be a not-too-costly option that could actually perform pretty well. I know Morales is a butcher over there and he’s an angel so he doesn’t walk all that much, but Casey plays good D and gets on base pretty well.”
Whozat -
I really don’t understand what it is you think the Yankees should be looking for. You want someone who is a “butcher” and doesn’t walk (doesn’t that affect the OBP??)? They might as well re-sign Giambi — at least HE walks!
miggs,
I got your back on Tex.
But as far as C.C. goes. I have a better solution. Sign Sheets. Trade for Harden. Have one go the first half of the year and the other the second half. Therefore you have two guys to make an ACE. Cheaper and avoid the injury bug they come with by signing both.
There’s also always Matt Murton or Xavier Nady as trade targets. Not sexy RF names, but Nady’s been quite productive and has 1B experience. And Murton…well, he’s one of those guys that the projection systems love and the Cubs like too much to trade but not enough to play.
S.O.S. if you want an “all DL team” then you make those moves. I like your reasoning…..
Seriously though, why would the Yankees go after Vlad? The time to get him was 4 years ago the last time he was a free agent. But they got Sheffield instead. Now he’s broken down and clearly on the downside of his career at a fairly young age (31-32 I think). These are the types of players the team needs to avoid, not attract.
I agree on Sheets just throwing that out. Tex will likely cost the Yanks too much so I doubly agree but Tex and C.C. in stripes is such a cool image and they are both under 30 I dunno pretty tempting anybody got any suggestions on who could set up mo in the new stadium the only remotely good FA i found was brandon lyon from the d-backs but he’ll probably re-sign with them
“I really don’t understand what it is you think the Yankees should be looking for. You want someone who is a “butcher†and doesn’t walk (doesn’t that affect the OBP??)?”
The conversation about what they should be looking for NOW and what they should be looking for next year are different. NOW they have Giambi that’s going to play most of the time, and if they’re going to have another 1B on the roster, he has to complement Giambi. Given that the team is weak against lefties, he should hit them well. He should also play solid defense if they wish to play him over there in late innings.
Looking to next year, Giambi’s gone, so you want to find one guy or a platoon of guys that will provide above average offensive production against both lefties and righties. If it’s one guy, you want him to be defensively solid. If two, you want at least one of them to be defensively solid, and it doesn’t have to be the heavy half of the platoon. Casey’s a solid defensive 1B that puts up a good average and solid OBP. Morales slugs the ball, hits for good average, and doesn’t take that many walks, BUT puts up a good AB. He’s not that good a fielder, though. So, you have Morales to start which helps balance the lineup against lefties (he’s a natural righty). Then you have Casey to spot against righties if you want and to finish out games while still not being an automatic out, which is MUCH better than Andy or Doug.
yankees getting brian fuentes?
“Now he’s broken down and clearly on the downside of his career at a fairly young age (31-32 I think).”
El Duque and Tejada-If thats what his birth certificate says. Then thats what he is.
“anybody got any suggestions on who could set up mo in the new stadium”
Melancon
Sanchez
Ollie
Veras if he starts pitching ahead in the count.
perhaps Edwar.
“yankees getting brian fuentes?”
This is how rumors start.
A journalist speculates that the Rockies might look to trade Fuentes if they don’t get back into contention, and notes that the Yankees have been interested in the past. He explicitly states that no discussions have occurred.
A few hours later, it’s turned into the above.
whozat,
I like the X man. But next year maybe we can just use our in house guy Miranda as the offensive butcher and get a defensive replacement. Thats off coarse if we dont trade our guys or get Tex.
Miggs –
Definitely agree about Abreu. I think all things considered, the guy is gold. I love having him on the team.
About who ends up being a waste of a roster space – unfortunately with some players you can’t know that until they’ve been on the team and put to the test.
It’s no joke that one of the toughest, though probably one of the most satisfying/rewarding (and I don’t mean $$$$ here), jobs in baseball is playing in the Bronx.
It absolutely broke my heart when we traded away Ricky Ledee. That kid lived and died for the Yankees. But it got to a point where nerves took over and he was doomed.
LOVE YA RICKY WHEREVER YOU ARE!
GO YANKEES!
GO O’S!!!
Ok, so he didn’t explicitly say that no discussions have occurred. But he certainly didn’t even intimate that any have.
“It absolutely broke my heart when we traded away Ricky Ledee. That kid lived and died for the Yankees.”
It puts a smile on my face. Two words. Justice-Championships
See you guys later.
racing fish… interesting. still doesn’t beat the sausage race in milwaukee though
“This is how rumors start.
A journalist speculates that the Rockies might look to trade Fuentes if they don’t get back into contention, and notes that the Yankees have been interested in the past. He explicitly states that no discussions have occurred.
A few hours later, it’s turned into the above.”
it looks like a good trade we dont have any leftys
“I like the X man. But next year maybe we can just use our in house guy Miranda as the offensive butcher and get a defensive replacement. Thats off coarse if we dont trade our guys or get Tex.”
Yeah, but Miranda hits from the wrong side for this team. Maybe the Angels would be interested in a swap of all-hit, no-field 1Bs. We’d have to kick in something else to compensate for Miranda not being a switch hitter, though. And I think Morales is blocked because Kotchman finally showed up and they have a zillion DHes with their OF surplus. So Miranda wouldn’t be interesting to them anyhow.
They’d want pitching, which is fine. We have that.
Miranda, I think, would be trade bait for something else. Sadly, I can’t think of anyone who’d want a lefty 1B/DH right now. The Twins? They never have any power. They also don’t have anything interesting. The Indians have interesting OF guys that are blocked, I think.
Patterson has a great track record setting up the past couple years in AA and AAA. I really want to get a look at him a handful more times to see what that deceptive downhill fastball can do in the majors.
Dear Yankee Bats: Please be productive today and score many runs. Hell, at least more than 2 runs. Thank you.
Well I mean it broke my heart for Ricky because he loved being a Yankee. Obviously we got the better part of the trade.
My point had to do with players being able to play in the Bronx.
“it looks like a good trade we dont have any leftys”
What’s the trade? Who are we sending there? Josh Hamilton looks like a good trade too.
Livan kind of looks like a chubby Duque.
“Livan kind of looks like a chubby Duque.”
They ARE half-brothers.
third base ump looks like they borrowed him from the local little league.
Dammit – get better bats!
Darn it, I lost my Steve Phillips mute button!!!
At least its not Joe Morgan.
damn el duque was GREAT!!!
Uh I know they are.
The point is that he looks like a chubby VERSION of Duque. Hope I didn’t offend you but not thoroughly explaining what I meant. Be well!
I don’t want to jinx the team, but I think we’re going to tee off on Livan.
This guys throws meatballs.
Is Fuentes good against righties or just lefties? cuz if the yanks trade for him he has to set-up. Whats up with Melancon n J.B. Cox those guys could probably be good in the seventh better than Hawkins (worst FA signing since Igawa)
Steve Phillips-barf!
“What’s the trade? Who are we sending there? Josh Hamilton looks like a good trade too.”
there was a rumor that we want brian funtes
Ah, Monday night ESPN game.
Think I’m better off with YES…
AROD!!!!!
c ya!
there it is !!!
wow A-Rod destroyed that offering
At this point, it is clearly in BOTH of their heads. Livan knows he is going to make a mistake to AROD and AROD knows he is going to hammer it. Livan is going to keep getting lit up unless he moves Alex feet one time.
Oh man, this is like batting practice.
Godzilla adds to his hit total.
Stupid ARod. Swinging for the fences. Why isn’t he BUNTING in that situation?!?
He’s so not clutch. Doesn’t know that runs only matter LATE in games? God. He’s so terrible. Why can’t we have a sweet 3B like Brandon Inge?
c’mon Giambistache
Here is a nugget for everyone…JB Cox is overrated. Low K numbers, average fastball, no deception. Lots of groundball outs, but doesn’t profile to be a shut down late inning or set up guy. The Yankees have MULTIPLE options that will prove to be better down the road.
Robbie baby, would be nice to see you do something good here.
“there was a rumor that we want brian funtes”
I know. I pointed that out when I responded to you. You called it “a good trade”
How can you say it’s a good trade without knowing who the Yankees might send?
Cano needs to start putting together better AB’s
“Here is a nugget for everyone…JB Cox is overrated. Low K numbers, average fastball, no deception. Lots of groundball outs, but doesn’t profile to be a shut down late inning or set up guy. The Yankees have MULTIPLE options that will prove to be better down the road.”
Is anyone really saying that he’s going to be a shut-down late inning guy? I thought people felt that way about Melancon and Sanchez, mostly. Maybe Veras. Cox is a solid middle guy, which is still nice.
bad job by robinson cano… his lack of plate discipline really is becoming a problem. i am not bridge jumping but to be honest, it’s really hard to watch him struggle so much.
Next time Robbie. Next time
Let’s go Andy
Good start by the Yankees. Let’s hope Andy can hold this lead.
“Cano is a worthless hittter, worthless.”
Yes, and Mariano earrrned a B on his report card.
Next.
at least cano still has his D
Cano look slike he is expecting things to go wrong at the plate.
whozat,
You said what I was getting at. He might not be terrible, maybe he even gives them some decent innings. But the Yankees have some legit power arms that will offer more than Cox.
There has been plenty of talk about JB Cox on this blog board and his potential to be just what the Yankees need.
Also, I don’t know that I would put Veras in that group.
Wow – Way to start off a game! Nice going Arod, Abreu, Jeter, Giambi & Hideki!
Let’s keep it going!
Back to work bats. Nice job Andy
did u see abreu flip the ball up to melky after the last out? is that like the OF’s answer to giambi’s ‘pass’ to arod as they come out of the dugout?
2 out of 4 against the Twins isn’t bad. The Twins is a far superior team afterall.
27/∞
CB (Sorry this response is late, I just got home from work),
One thing I was actually thinking about on the subway ride home was exactly as you said–and this is something I had thought of before, but initially dismissed it–that since Giambi *is* so bad defensively, a good defensive first baseman does provide more than a marginal improvement.
Now, I’m still not convinced that makes an all-glove, no-stick first baseman an attractive roster-eater when you already have Shelley Duncan and Wilson Betemit on your roster, although is is increasingly clear that Shelley’s days might be numbered. If he cannot provide a stick from the right side (home run power would be preferable, but even doubles power with a good OBP would be fine, like a righty-Matsui), he simply has no role on the team. Problem is, if you cut bait on Duncan, you still need a righty bat, since the Yankees desperately need someone who can hit a left-hander not named Rodriguez (and Jeter and Posada when healthy).
It’s a shame Betemit’s platoon splits are so atrocious, since he’s essentially what Shelley Duncan should be, just with the wrong handedness.
So, let’s assume the Yankees “normalize” with a four-person bench.
You have the backup catcher (Molina), the righty bat off the bench (currently lacking), Betemit (lefty bat off the bench), and…?
Now that I think about it, I can see why an all-glove 1B is appealing in that spot, given the roster’s current complexion. Here’s another thought, though. Let’s assume you can get a decent righty bat to platoon with Giambi, whoever that may be (maybe Duncan turns out to be that player, maybe not); in that case, doesn’t looking for a right-handed defensive specialist somewhere that *isn’t* 1st base make the most sense? After all, while Abreu provides mediocre defense in right, picking up an all-glove righty centerfielder and pushing Melky to right against left handers might be a better configuration (or you can keep Melky in center and shift the all-glove defender to right, whatever works).
I mean, the challenge is adequately posed as such: the Yankees have a pretty set configuration against right-handed pitching, who they can more or less bludgeon to death. If the Yankees were to get a right-handed power bat, the ideal spot for him would be either the corner outfield or 1st base, both because of the relative surplus of bats at those positions, and because those are all occupied by left-handed bats. All this, we already knew. I’m not convinced it would be easy to find an all-glove first baseman as opposed to an all-glove outfielder, though; and if you found a righty first baseman who provided adequate (or even below-average) first base defense who nonetheless mashed lefties well, and could perhaps spell one of Damon or Abreu with a good glove in their place (the logic being, Damon or Abreu against LHP would be perhaps a marginal offensive upgrade then a no-bat Righty with a superior glove, so the glovework would make all the difference).
So are there any pieces like that floating around–if not now, then conceivably in a month? Unfortunately, I’m not convinced.
I guess what’s so frustrating is that having a four-man first base platoon just seems like so much of a hassle to maintain, and an inefficient deployment of talent; that’s about a third of your roster position players deployed towards one position. Granted, Betemit is more versatile than that, but he’s deployed more as another first baseman option, as opposed to someone who could spell the middle infielders (I wonder, if Jeter continues to struggle offensively, whether allowing Betemit to start in his place against tough righties wouldn’t be a bad idea? I’m not sure how much defense you’re sacrificing there, even if Jeter’s improving…).
I don’t know, I’m just been throwing thoughts out there this time.
Trish just ignore Russ, he obviously has nothing better to do with his time.
i have no idea why the yankees took the field for this one. steve phillips has already said the yanks wont make the playoffs.
Hey guys. Just got one with dinner. Nice home fun from Alex!
Might Aaron Boone be an option for a mid season pick up for the Yanks? He’s been playing the majority of the time for the Nationals at 1st base, but has played all infield positions during his career so he could be a good bench player. Probably wouldn’t cost much in a trade, is a righty bat and is NY tested.
“Might Aaron Boone be an option for a mid season pick up for the Yanks? He’s been playing the majority of the time for the Nationals at 1st base, but has played all infield positions during his career so he could be a good bench player. Probably wouldn’t cost much in a trade, is a righty bat and is NY tested.”
His hitting this year is a small-sample-size fluke. Boone’s really not much of a hitter, and it’s not like he’s a natural 1B or anything.
Come on, Andy, shut them down!
27/∞
“Humberto Sanchez is up to 45 pitches and will be a reliever from here on out this year:”
Yeah, I had heard that a while ago. I wasn’t sure if he’d thrown to batters yet, and that confirmed he hasn’t.
Andy’s working behind today. Boo.
“Come on, Andy, shut them down!
27/∞”
I thought it was a foregone conclusion that Andy was going to meltdown and give up a world record 50 homeruns?
Are you, gasp, cheering on the Yankees, rather than morosely announcing how they’re going to lose?
another 2 out run given up by the Yankees
Trade Cano now! Trade him to Toronto for Eckstein. We need gamers, not prima donna headcases!
(please note — whenever I post “trade Cano” rants in here, he breaks out of his slump)
The lead is cut in half. The Yanks need to go out and score some more runs this inning. Let’s go Yankees.
Alright. Get that run back and more
I can’t believe Jeter’s been playing for thirteen years.
I mean, when he started playing, I was in FIFTH grade. Nintendo 64 hadn’t even come out yet. The family computer had 25 megs of memory.
Weird.
rebecca what happened to your blog?
Rebecca,
You are getting old.
Wow, Joba v. Doc.
That’s definitely has top billing potential.
Yeah: What do you mean?
I went to Italy last week and had a couple friends fill in. I’m still a little jet lagged, hence lack of posting. Unless you mean something else.
Andy: do not succumb to the possession of Igawa
27/∞
come on porn lovah!
I always get in through your link, but today for some reason it doesn’t want to work.
GiDP?
This kid is so far mature beyond his years. Maybe it’s a product of the tough life he has had plus the wonderful upbringing in spite of his dad’s adversity. I admire him so much.
Chronologically
Damnit, Matsui, my fantasy team wanted that SB!
Giambi should bunt here.
Giambi you are the slowest man alive.
Rebecca/Yeah!-In the name link for the blog-it has it as .comh/ instead of .com
That’s why it might be a problem opening when clicking Rebecca’s name
BTW-Great blog!
Eric Duncan stays hot, double in his first AB tonight.
S.A thnx I was able to get into the blog.
Livan is looking more like an ace than Wang
Man that kid is fast
oh crap
meltdown alert is at orange
I’m thinking he has both Ichiro and Carl Crawford beat.
“Livan is looking more like an ace than Wang”
LOL – that’s funny. How many 2R HRs does Wang give up in the 1st?
This guy is -hittable-. String together a few of em, and you have a merry-go-round.
Russ: You’re outta here. This blog is not for trolls who just want to annoy people. Go someplace else. Perhaps you and anti-mussina can form your own Yankees haters blog.
In the word of Michael Kay: See ya!
I think the best option for first base is anyone we only have for one season. Texiera is a bad choice as we have Jeter slowing down (Although I still love the guy) and might need to move over in a year or two. We need a spot for Jorge and we have some catching prospects Romaine and Montero in three or four years and and seven year 140 million dollar contract puts us in a huge hole.
BTW, Gardner is definitely coming up next year, where would he play? If we resign Abreu, we have Damon, Matsui, Melky, Abreu and Gardner for three outfield spots and a DH. I say we move Damon because Gardner can lead off as he has good plate discipline and a great OBP. Although he probably will take time to adjust, Damon is really only a leadoff hitter.
Gardner can’t spend more than this year at AAA.
Wow. Andy needs to get his head on right. Bad throw to first, bad play on that ball.
V has got to be the fool that answers ER. Thanks, V.
giambi should have caught cano’s ball
Over under on pitches Cano sees this AB 2
Trisha -you’re right. That Gomez is really fast. I wish the Yanks had a speedster like that.
Let’s go Yankees. Need to get that lead back.
Peter who in the world is russ?
Peter Abraham
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Russ: You’re outta here. This blog is not for trolls who just want to annoy people. Go someplace else. Perhaps you and anti-mussina can form your own Yankees haters blog.
In the word of Michael Kay: See ya!
ATTABOY PETE!
YAY Peter
thanks pete! and good job not feeding that troll tonight guys!
Question to those more knowledgable… but why is that run an ER for Andy? Yes, he got on base and scored on hits, but he isn’t on 3rd to score without the error…
Wow all his posts are gone. WooHoo!
c’mon Yankees
nice hustle there robbie.
1sst pitch swinging….ah
ATTABOY PETE!!!
When Andy doesn’t have it, it is hard to watch.
I knew we couldn’t go a game without hitting into a DP
Johnny Damon or Jose Tabata/Austin Jackson in 2008?
ouch
You know what’s funny? Every fan thinks there team is unable to score with RISP. I have to wonder, where do the Yankees actually rank in this catergory? I assume it’s towards the bottom, but I doubt it’s actually last.
damn…thought we’d get to him there, but i think livan doesnt make it through the next inning.
this team cant get out of its own way
V, I wasn’t paying close attention but I believe there were less than 2 out. So I think that takes it out of the realm of being unearned.
wow…quality ab there
If they don’t score more than two off this fat turd, I’m done in ‘08.
Yeah: the link should work now. Try it on Pete’s sidebar.
“You know what’s funny? Every fan thinks there team is unable to score with RISP. I have to wonder, where do the Yankees actually rank in this catergory? I assume it’s towards the bottom, but I doubt it’s actually last.”
It does seem like it’s only us doing it, but a friend of mine who is a huge WS fan was moaning about how against TB, the WS had runners on 1st and 3rd and nobody out….TWICE…and didn’t score. So it’s not just us.
Well that sucked. Hopefully next time we can get something going.
Im just so sick of the yankees keeping bad pitchers in games
LMAO at “Fat Turd” seriously though enough double plays
Rebecca, I was convinced the Yanks were the only team who couldn’t plate a run from 3rd with less than 2 out and it was driving me crazy every time we were in that situation. It seemed that every time I would see another team in the same situation, they would manage to get the run home.
Well the other day they announced that the Yanks actually have the highest percentage in the majors of bringing that run home!
Boy was I surprised.
Baltimore scores first. Let’s see how long that lead lasts.
Coco Crisp has the stupidest MLB.tv commercial.
You can always count on gentleman Tim Wakefield.
BMORE leading 2-0.
The second run on Pettitte is unearned.
it could very well be that right now jason giambi is the most underrated player in the majors. certainly among yankee fans. he receives nothing for his contribution and people just wait to pounce when he makes a mistake. top 5 in the league ops gets you this kind of treatment?
Everyone has a hit except for Moeller and Abreu (who has walked twice).
like i said, hernandez doesnt make it out of this inning.
Jeter needs to sit, he’s just killing this team. Blah, blah, blah.
thnx Rebecca, you and Petes are the only two blogs I read.
Leadoff double by Derek. Need to get him in here.
Maybe Jeter’s hand is starting to feel better. A HR last night, driving the ball in the gap tonight.
Looking good.
They better get Jeter in.
“Well the other day they announced that the Yanks actually have the highest percentage in the majors of bringing that run home!”
You sure about that Trisha?
Don’t get picked off of 2B, Derek!
“it could very well be that right now jason giambi is the most underrated player in the majors. certainly among yankee fans. he receives nothing for his contribution and people just wait to pounce when he makes a mistake. top 5 in the league ops gets you this kind of treatment?”
I always give the guy his props. I think the harsh words about his defense are definitely overstated.
The day that jeter leaves this team is going to be a really sad day in New York, for me atleast, really, really, sad can you imagine?????….nooooo
What happened to Obesed Poopi?
That last out by Jason did not help his rep.
I think Jeter and A-Rod are both getting back to 100%. Good things to come.
Guarantee they find a way to not score jete here
Miggs, I believe it was Singleton who announced it. I said at that moment that you could have pushed me over with a feather behind that announcement. I figured the Yanks were at the bottom on that stat.
gomez puttin on a show tonite! anybody who says they got garbage for santana is wrong. maybe they didnt get enough, maybe they could have done better from the yanks or sox, but you cant say they got garbage for him, which many on here have said.
I didn’t see A-Rod’s HR. Was it a bomb or one of those line drive shots?
A-Rod is such a joke with runners on 3rd and less than two out. It is embarrassing to watch.
it will be sad, but no sadder than when mickey and donnie baseball left.
this team sucks at getting runs in
You got to love how this team hits with men in scoring position. And we all wonder why we are playing 500 play?
it should be a 4-1 game but instead its 2-2 because the yankees suck
OMFG Im a prophet
WHAT A JOKE
Is there any way to look that stat up? They’re 0-2 so far tonight.
Not that I’m doubting what you heard, but that stat can’t be correct. Could Singleton have read it wrong?
We have got to figure this RISP thing out. These are the most frustrating innings to watch.
# Neil June 2nd, 2008 at 8:21 pm
A-Rod is such a joke with runners on 3rd and less than two out. It is embarrassing to watch.
Besides that homer in the 1st inning right, Neil???
Some posts are embarrassing to read.
damn, i really thought that was gonna be the inning. still, andy’s pitching well, keep the chins up!
Lets Go Yankees!!!!!
Pathetic hitting again by the Yankees.
Constantly amazed and how unproductive this line up can be at times.
Anyone know how many times this year Yankee pitchers have failed to hold a lead?
Curious. They always seem to get the lead, pitcher gives it up and then they tank with RISP the rest of the game.
Second inning in a row the Yanks could not score the runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Hope that this doesn’t come back to haunt them.
I just dont get how you dont get a guy in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. they are giving you the run
frustrating
Nate – He hits a HR in the 1st, so that means he doesn’t have to score the guy from 3rd? Logical
Lets trade the entire roster for the south bronx pee-wee team they could get runners in better
Miggs, I absolutely would have agreed with your take. I know it’s in one of the recent game threads. I’ll try to look between innings to see if anyone mentioned the exact percentage he quoted. But I did nearly fall over when I heard it.
A-Rod hits more pop ups than anyone in the ML.
If I hear the Snoop CenterStage plug one more time Im going to shoot myself
Neil your negativity and complete forgetting of things that happen a few innings ago is embarrassing. Sorry that A-Rod can’t drive in 600 runs and hit .999.
Geez. I guess he should homer every time up too, huh Neil??
I still say Yanks will take this game. They’re not terrible at hitting with RISP but they sure are streaky. If you remember some games a week or so back we were scoring a ton of runs.
Good stat there from Kay Andy’s only got 52 at this moment good for the bullpen
We got the defeatists out tonight. Not surprising when the game is tied early and they leave guys on base.
grim indeed. Dunno what is going on with this team when runners are in scoring position, but it’s killing the team.
stop killing arod if it wasnt for him the yankees would never score
“A-Rod is such a joke with runners on 3rd and less than two out. It is embarrassing to watch.”
Off with his head then, right?
Nate – I am not sure when I said he should homer every time up?
You make it sound like it’s ok that he didn’t score a runner from 3rd with less than two out. He could probably have six or seven more RBI right now if he would succeed in that situation.
Good shyt Andy
Igawa is right. What turned the Yankees around? Arod returning to the team.
andy dealing tonight! he’s coming into shape just about when you expect him to, he could have a monster 2nd half!
now lets put ups some runs for the guy!
good job Pettite!!
ARod’s homers are nice. Most come at times when the game is out of reach or helps pad the lead.
But, with exception to last year, the perception is that he consistently fails to advance a runner or get a running in from 3rd with a Sac Fly.
Again, I SAID PERCEPTION.
Those Yankees!!!
Glad to see that we aren’t the only ones leaving me in scoring position.
So did Karstens catch Pavano-itis?
Also Igawa is getting lit up in AAA. Shocker
time for some runs darnit!!
Andy has just had some bad luck and if they get enough guys into scoring position you got to figure someone will get a big hit. Right??
Streaky means talented, consistency means Championships.
Andy is pitching well. The Yanks need to get him some runs. Let’s go Yankees.
for you hockey buffs, Pens just scored.
A-Rod hits a 1st inning ding dong and then fails to get a runner in from 3rd with 1 out and you got posters here condemning him. Tough crowd.
arod scored a guy from first (and another guy from home) in the first inning with 2 outs! why dont you back off him a bit there!
Please get a run somehow
Abepeter
June 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 pm
So did Karstens catch Pavano-itis?
—————
I don’t think so – Karstens already has over 10 pitches as a Yankee starter…
CAN WE PLEASE SCORE!!!!!!! This team is a joke at the plate they keep teams in the game and then they lose
Karstens ain’t exactly a savior for this pitching staff. I’m sure he’d like Pavano’s contract before he kept getting hurt like him.
Wow, he beat the shift. Way to go, Ron Jeremy!
the yankees need to sit cano for about a week
Cano’s Bat here: robbie, pull your head out or go back to Scranton. Right now you are a waste of the money they gave you.
GiDP??
Cano… unbelievable! Plus he was out
This is funny. Russ is now e-mailing me furious that he was banned. His crude e-mail included assorted shots at the Yankees.
Here is what I don’t understand: Why would you post on a blog of a team you don’t like? I don’t like the Jets. But what possible joy would I get going on a Jets blog and telling people that Chad Pennington sucks or whatever? It’s just sad. How badly has your life gone when you’re to that point?
It’s like the people who e-mail me telling me I suck or whatever. OK, great. Now what? Am I supposed to retire?
That swing by Cano didn’t even look right. It wasn’t level nor was there any umph behind it. People are saying that A-Rod is frustrating to watch. They must be ready to slit their wrists watching Cano.
I really think that Cano believes you are only allowed one pitch
cano’s got to go he is just so thick headed
Going into the road trip, the Yankees were first in the AL in getting runners in from third with less than 2 outs.
However, as it is with most stats, further examination is needed.
They were 10th overall in hitting w/RISP and next to last (Seattle was last) in leaving leadoff runners at second in innings.
Its not a newsflash they have not hit well this year.
So far, this game is a microcosm of the season. Chances to blow a game open and fail, while the defense gives away a run.
Fortunately, they are tied and they just have to keep grinding.
wanted to say that the espn crew did a good job discussing the draft, at least as well as can be done for a mass audience while sticking to the game.
dan schulman is a very good announcer.
2nd and 3rd one out… please get these guys in.
That’s a bad break
Cano is so frustrating to watch right now because we all knoww how good he is when he’s right, an how important he is to our offense. You have to just hope he’s not fighting an injury.
Nice swing by Moeller; pity it bounced into the stands.
Does Kevin Long tell him not to swing at the first pitch? What in Gods name is Cano doing? This is little league garbage. Take the first pitch. Cano has seen 3 pitches his last 3 at bats. Killing us.
I smell a loss here.
Is there a first pitch that Cano doesn’t like.
It just seems like Karstens gets hurt alot. Every time the Yanks plan on adding him to the team he gets hurt. Last Spring Training, This Spring Training, tomorrow. I know he’s no Pavano… just trying to make a point.
if they dont get atleast one run in im going to kill myself
Too bad that bounced in the seats or Cano would have scored. Let’s try again to get a runner in from 3rd base!
Yay Melky!
Someone mentioned it the other day, Cano’s body language is starting to go south. He looks terrible. I never bought the “Cano is lackadaisical” stuff, but now I’m starting to think he wasn’t such a good guy to hand $30 million to. And will Giradi get blamed for this a la Willie with Reyes?
there ya go!!!!
Great night for the Melkman so far!
Amen pete, We don’t need trolls like russ on this blog.
I really think that Cano believes you are only allowed one pitch
I figured it out. Based on Cano’s new contract, he earns more per plate appearance if he takes less than 3 pitches. If he take 3 pitches or more, he contract is suddenly undervalued based on past performance.
Smart businessman.
That’s more like it.
Pete
Do not retire until you write your book.
Melky baby!
Jack Daniels,
Cano took the first pitch of his first at bat
hey, we all know cano is struggling, but give him this, he busted it on both plays and beat out close plays. if he wasnt huslting id be alot more worried. i still think he’ll come around, he’s obviously hacking out of frustration and eargerness to get it started.
Yay Johnny!
(eventually I’ll say something of substance in my posts)
Justice for Damon, since he was robbed last AB.
Nice.
Note; “Speed kills”, I don’t much care if Brett is a LH bat. We need defence and speed on this team. Sometimes it looks like a bunch of old people out there. Look at teams such as TB/Twins/Os’, built on speed and defence. Maybe at the call-up, we will get an infusion of youth and speed coupled with good defence. 27/08?
remember when johnny was DFA’d by the GMs here? Hes an incredible player when healthy.
YAY Johnny!
You’re a good man Pete. Just keep doing what you’re doing.
cancabrera,
I scored that WW on my scorecard
(wasnt watching)
“Step on his neck here. One’s not enough.”
Word!
take him out cap’n!
hernandez just frustrates the hell out of you, he just gets that one key out each inning that prevents you from pouring it on.
lets go bobby!
Is Kevin Long having any discussions with Cano about patience and having a zone in which to hit from and make the pitcher throw a pitch in that zone? I don’t understand the whole hack at every pitch thing. Make an adjustment already like a professional. Otherwise why ever throw him a strike?
We’ve got 12 hits and only 4 runs to show for it.
damn, he slithers away again, but we got the lead, now we need andy to hold it.
Sox are coming back O’s lead 2-1> When will the Rays start losing they’re off today but I still find myself begging for their downfall they dont belong in the same conversation as the Yanks and Sox
Wish we got more from that. Oh darn
Let’s hold the lead!
OK Andy lets get a lockdown inning.
ted williams said the most important thing is to get a good pitch to hit. if cano goes up there thinking ‘im gonna take the first pitch’ hes gonna make things worse.
its frustrating, but filling his head with ‘dont’s’ isnt gonna get him out of it.
It is a sad state of affairs that we have 12 hits and only 4 runs. I know Hernandez is a pro and knows how to pitch out of trouble but come on already. Can the offense carry this team for a month or so already?
come on Andy. Let’s hold onto this lead
Mauer lead off hit ahh here it goes guarantee we leave this inning trailing
This is sort of random but it pisses me off how whenever the Yankees play the Twins they make Minnesota out to be the “poor feeble thrifty cute Twinkies” who have to develop their own players to play with the big boys.
Don’t these analysts know that the owner of the Twins, Carl Pohland, is the wealthiest in all of baseball?
If the Twins wanted to spend money they could. They choose not to. Tough luck.
Miggs -
This was the post
trisha –
May 28th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Now I’ll tell you that you can push me over with a feather on that stat that Singleton just mentioned and I owe the Yanks a huge apology!
The Yanks lead the majors in plating a run from third with less than two out.
Guess it’s not as easy as I thought…
If you had the energy and desire, you could grab the game from audio archives and ffwd to the point in the game when the Yankees scored their first run (around 7:30 p.m.) and then fast foward from there to 7:45 or so. My comment was posted around 7:47 so you would catch exactly what Singleton said.
I believe you are a computer person (unless I got that wrong) so you would probably know how to get to that exact point pretty fast. I not so.
We NEED to abuse livan next inning get his a$$ outta there
Petite we need a double play!!!!!
“ted williams said the most important thing is to get a good pitch to hit. if cano goes up there thinking ‘im gonna take the first pitch’ hes gonna make things worse.
its frustrating, but filling his head with ‘dont’s’ isnt gonna get him out of it.”
It’s about limiting yourself a zone. A drive zone where you won’t swing unless its in that part of the zone. And the zone isn’t the whole strike zone. It is pitches you can drive. Until you get two strikes and then you become what he is on the first pitch.
Showing patience and making a pitcher work is hitting. It’s not about don’t swing. Its swing at something you can drive.
russ… what a joke… I was there when he was B&M over at the MLB’s Yankees Blog back when Feinsand was the beat writer and man, he made the blog just painful…
So long, I won’t miss ya. Enjoy yourself over on the Sox blog.
OMG wat a boot fest YANKEES SUCK I quit as a fan
Agreed Ummmmmm.. Isn’t Pohland worth billions?
criminey!!
Okay, let’s not hold the lead…
Maybe Jeter is an awful fielding shortstop. He has had an extremely poor series unlike captain clutch
Bad throw from Cano.
Bad throw, bad tag. Beautiful.
Man, I hate to say it, but I’m missing Womack. LOL.
Why can’t Pettite keep a lead? It seems like whenever we score runs, Pettite gives them back…??
A lead squandered in the following half inning, I have seen this story before
There is NO better defensive team in the majors than the Yankees.
Recap, last week, Yanks have 2 4 run leads that the pitchers blew.
tonight Pettitte has been give 2 2 run leads and is on the verge of giving it up.
How and why does this keep happening? What is the stigma.
thank god yu quit, now if we could lose ER it would be a clean-sweep night!
Thanks Andy for giving it all back every inning.
Real good showing tonight when we needed you.
the throw was in his glove, he wasnt on the bag…
Rebecca -
We’ll hold it. If they score more runs, we’ll score more than that!
GO ANDY!
Cano should not have thrown behind Jeter on that play.
Do they take infield practice?
egads – was it cano’s fault? Sorry pettite… my bad. Gameday does not give all that much info.
“the throw was in his glove, he wasnt on the bag…”
The throw was behind him.
WOW
This is the most frustrating game. Ever.
Andy. Come on. You’re supposed to be, you know, the Yankee stopper.
jeezus (#$&*#@$
call me ms. CLEO
Bad 0-2 pitch.
I feel bad for people like Neil and Yu Darvish and Whiff. Just waiting for something bad to happen and rejoicing when it does. But I bet you are the first people who brag after a win. Sickens me as a fan.
Andy blew a 2 run lead for the second time tonight.
That play at second was big – should be 2 outs and a run would not have scored.
Oh crap. grrr
0-2 pitch = RBI double awesome
grife, this team needs an enima.
Cano typicaally makes great plays in the field. If he missed one I think it’s time to have him executed in plain view of the entire baseball world.
This game is over.
We had out shot to blow it open early and a team like the Twins feed off of that. Now they give it to the pen and forget us hitting good pitching.
uhuh veras coming in, then will see the hick and he will sure blow the game
Who was it that said that Pettite was our Ace?
At some point, Andy has to be able to hold multi-run leads. This has killed him all year.
When Andy was Andy, you give him a lead, he gets the ball to Mo. Not anymore.
An 0-2 pitch left out over the plate to Young. Just a terrible pitch.
Girardi has to get him out now. He stays too long with Andy, he’s going to implode like he did against the Mets.
“call me ms. CLEO” Congratulations. I’m sure you’re proud of yourself.
Instead of Ms. Cleo, you should call yourself russ m.
why is pettite’s fastball clocking in at 89? Was it always below 90 mph?
Phillips essentially said that Damon throws like a girl.
Mark in CT – Nice assumption.
Maybe you should join Nate, who probably thinks that Andy blowing the lead is ok since you know, he did get the W in his last start
I vote for Trisha as executioner
Get out of this somehow
Thank God
SJ – Don’t state Andy’s troubles with leads, it’s illegal
Time for the bats to get to work.
If Damon was a Red Sox would you say he throws like a girl
ok, tie game arod coming up, lets go, lets knock this chucklehead out of this game.
Got a feeling Kenny is a Jay Bruce fan…
ok – since pettite seems to be giving up 2 run leads… how about 5 runs this inning?
OK, tie game. Time for the offense to get back to work.
This game is not over. Goodness people
lol
Hey Neil, great post: http://mroctober.wordpress.com.....-big-joke/
Why don’t you go back to your own blog and whine? Your schtick is old.
Laura – you’re right. The Yanks will just have to get another lead.
darn! i was unaware that anti-mussina had been DFA’d
i thought he had been crushed by a moose win steamroller!
Sunny:
It was Jeter’s fault for not getting to the bag. Not Cano’s at all. Jeter has to be stadning on second there and maybe even turn a DP.
And Pettitte has always been 88-92 with his fastball..Geez. Everyone’s looking for the negative here, it’s sickening
is pettite nursing some sort of injury or something? He doesn’t seem to have a lot of zip on the ball. If he continues to pitch like this for the rest of the season – do the yanks bring him back for a one year contract for 09?
But I bet you are the first people who brag after a win. Sickens me as a fan.
Buy some Pepto if it sickens you. No after a win, I do not rejoice, I still find room for improvement. But when a team displays what the Yankees have so far this season, thre is very little to rejoice about.
The lords of the blog and punished people, promised 10 game win streaks, resurrection of this team, etc. They are what they are, a .500 team bent on over achieving for 85 wins.
If you think that as a fan, I love to see Cano swing at teh first pitch and get an out, or the wonderful defense that has been showing up each game, or the pitchers great ability to hold leads, you are sadly mistaken and caught in a misguided vortex of lies.
Champion caliber teams are suppose to progress as the season goes along, not stay stagnent or regress. But since you are sick, you apparently will accept anything. Congrats.
“ok, tie game arod coming up, lets go, lets knock this chucklehead out of this game.”
Too bad he’s not coming up with the bases loaded. The Yankees have been swinging at a lot of balls today.
Another Igawa transformation
what phillips said was “no arm strength at all”
is he wrong?
Pettitte really is embarrassing to watch this season. Some of his 0-2 pitches look intentionally hittable, they’re so bad.
This team finds a way to lose again.
Are there any real competitors on this team? Or do they just not mind losing?
The Yankees disgust me.
“Champion caliber teams are suppose to progress as the season goes along, not stay stagnent or regress. But since you are sick, you apparently will accept anything. Congrats.”
Um, they’ve won 8 of their last 11. How is that stagnant?
Andy’s problem isn’t velocity. Its location.
Righties are hitting .344 against him this year. He can’t seem to locate his pitches on the inner half to righties so far this year.
He seems hesitant to work away from righties. Probably because he hasn’t been able to find his curveball and changeup for awhile now.
When Andy was Andy, he he could paint the outer half with his changeup and curveball. That made righties look away and he was able to bust the cutter in on their hands.
Now, it seems all he does is throw fastballs and the righties are just sitting on them.
Pitching is a feel game and its clear he doesn’t have the feel for his secondary pitches.
Could be an injury. Could be mechanical.
Either way, tonight is another example of why Joba belongs in the rotation.
The game begins and ends with starting pitching. Poor starting pitching is tough to cover with an average offense and a setup guy.
“Pettitte really is embarrassing to watch this season. Some of his 0-2 pitches look intentionally hittable, they’re so bad.
This team finds a way to lose again.
Are there any real competitors on this team? Or do they just not mind losing?
The Yankees disgust me.”
Then root for the Rays.
It’s the top of the f-ing 7th, tie game. How have they ‘found a way to lose’?
Jack -
I have true compassion for posters who don’t know how to sit back and let a game unfold without having ulcers and needing to make negative comments on everything that happens. I cannot imagine living that way. I don’t think it’s a matter of choice either, seriously. I may have a ton of flaws and weaknesses, but one isn’t being a constant bag of negativity and complaints.
Again, I don’t think it’s a matter of choice, just like I don’t think my upbeat optimism while watching games is a matter of choice. It’s just who we are.
Anyway, I don’t have to constantly remind myself that they are men, not machines.
Is it me or does A-Rod seem more relaxed without a runner on third ?
not good enough, if arod was clutch, he would have hit a lead-off 3 run october that at-bat.
how close was that to 527?
The game isn’t over. Its a tie game.
Frustrating? Well, what have we seen tonight that we haven’t seen all season?
This is the team right now. Their flaws are obvious.
Yet, they have won 8 of their last 11 and still have a chance to win tonight.
They just have to keep grinding. Its a little early to say its over.
3run leadoff october home run that is
V -
Notice that “ghidrah” has one post on this blog. Don’t be surprised if it isn’t a troll pretending to be a Yankee fan.
Jack Daniels
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Is it me or does A-Rod seem more relaxed without a runner on third ?
————–
call me crazy, but it could also be that 77 mph meatball Livan threw…
darn! i didn’t realize that ant*-muss*na had been DFA’d
i thought he had been crushed by a moose win steamroller!
Wow, do the Yanks have some annoying fans or what? Do you guys not remember last year? We were in much worse shape last year. The Yanks were 13.5 games behind the Red Sox and 7 games behind in the WC. They were 7 games under .500. Relax and at least try to enjoy the season.
Yankees will plate this run and win this game.
GO YANKEES!!!
c’mon mstsui- time for one of your patented clutch singles.
“Is it me or does A-Rod seem more relaxed without a runner on third ?”
Some people see what they want to see. If he popped up there would he have looked relaxed to you?
or clutch walk…?? Giambi’s turn. C’mon clutch it Giambi!
Giambi has to get a run in here.
Come on, RJ. Let me see ya hit one out!!
And that was on June 2nd of 2007.
Um, they’ve won 8 of their last 11. How is that stagnant
Those are just numbers. You conviently pick the second game against Balitimore and then include that sweep over the powerhouse Mariners.
If you are going to count, don’t leave out the back to back blowouts against the Mets and game 1 against Baltimore.
Oh and .500 or using a multi game winning streak to get to .500, stagnant.
Or do you use a different mathematical system.
how crazy would it be if Giambi pulles a suicide squeeze?
“The game isn’t over. Its a tie game.
Frustrating? Well, what have we seen tonight that we haven’t seen all season?
This is the team right now. Their flaws are obvious.
Yet, they have won 8 of their last 11 and still have a chance to win tonight.
They just have to keep grinding. Its a little early to say its over.”
There are definitely flaws – I’ll be the first to admit it.
But this is -not- the same team that was seemingly failing to score more than 2-3 runs for several stretches of the past couple months.
Runs will be scored – this is a powerful offense. While they -need- Cano to come back, ARod back, a solid Matsui, Damon, Giambi, and Posada coming back this week, the offense is going to be -fine-.
Now if we can get Wang back to April form, and a solid Pettitte back…
it would be nice if we could DFA some people off this blog HAHA
Whiff (Cano’s bat)
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Or do you use a different mathematical system.
—————
Maybe it’s the Clinton mathematical system…?
The epidemic of blown calls continues, though this one obviously you take, as a yankee fan.
I would love to see Matsui and Giambi pull off a double steal here… that would be hilarious…
Great call at home! Lead foot got in on a lazy tab by Mauer.
Steve Phillips needs to join this blog since he needs to know everything, like most on this blog
Nice slide Alex. Perhaps that will shut up his detractors.
get them all home somehow
Guys, what’s the score? Game-recap anyone??
Thx in advance..
Perhaps, they should just rename Cano – Robbie “In play, out” Cano… nice ring to it…
“it would be nice if we could DFA some people off this blog HAHA”
LOL. Agreed!
“Um, they’ve won 8 of their last 11. How is that stagnant
Those are just numbers. You conviently pick the second game against Balitimore and then include that sweep over the powerhouse Mariners.
If you are going to count, don’t leave out the back to back blowouts against the Mets and game 1 against Baltimore.
Oh and .500 or using a multi game winning streak to get to .500, stagnant.
Or do you use a different mathematical system.”
Ok, 8 in their last 12, if you want to take the first loss to Baltimore, no skin off my back. ARod has been back for 12 games. The offense has been MUCH better since he’s been back. That’s positive, IMO.
You can read stagnant into that. I don’t.
Mike, as far as I know, a blown call is when you can look at the replay and say “he was 100% x”. If you can make a definitive call on that play at home I would guess you’re the only one who can, because no one was able to even after seeing the replay multiple times.
I would classify it as a “bang bang” call that can go either way, not a “blown” call.
“it would be nice if we could DFA some people off this blog HAHA”
Thunder – AMEN!
Unfortunately, this blog ends up being addictive with enough fun and positive people – not to mention Pete’s great sense of humor – that you find yourself coming back for more. I have gotten in a little hot water on my other forum because I think I have been a little derelict in my duties as forum admin since I’m here more than there.
(I’m sure there are some here who wish I would tend to the other forum!)
5-4 Yankees lead. Top of the 7th. 1 out
Runners on 1st and 3rd
And I have no idea what mathematical system you have to use to claim an 8 for 11 streak is stagnant.
Is Giambi ’stagnant’ in May? I’d say he’s been pretty damn good. But, since he was bad in April, his average is low. So he’s ’stagnant’?
2 run lead, pettite lets it go, another 2 run lead, Pettite let’s it go, and now they’re up another run… hopefully, they can make it a 3 or 4 run lead this time… end recap.
Runs will be scored – this is a powerful offense. While they -need- Cano to come back, ARod back, a solid Matsui, Damon, Giambi, and Posada coming back this week, the offense is going to be -fine-.
Now if we can get Wang back to April form, and a solid Pettitte back…
Good point. That is a lot of if’s.
Where the tag was on Alex’s leg is what got them the safe call.
Rest In Peace Bo…
What’s the consensus on A-rod’s play at the plate? YES has it showing safe but my buddy who is on a business trip watching it on ESPN in Boston said that they have a top angle and that he was definatly out.
Either way…Ill take it!
criminey…
“And Boston again shows more heart than the Yanks by beating BAltimore tonight for a 4 game sweep at Camden Yards, where NY is lucky to win a single game in a series.
What a disgusting, pathetic team the Yanks are.”
I think russ m. is back.
So ghidrah – how’s the weather up there in Boston?
Dear god, please don’t give up this lead
5 runs off of 13 hits.
V.. you are the man.. you basically say everything I would to these moron trolls..
forget an edit button, we need a “DFA” button so that trolls [or Yankee fans too whiny that sound like trolls] receive x-amount of DFA votes. Those who lead after a week, month, etc. are DFA’d and sent to Masslive where they belong..
Hey Pete, will you please off the troll known as ghidrah?
Thanks!
Before you go, ghidrah, the Sux haven’t won anything yet tonight.
Buh bye.
Ummmm, ghidrah? The Red Sox game is in the 6th inning? Are you some kind of psychic-troll?
“(I’m sure there are some here who wish I would tend to the other forum!)”
well, i’ve got no problem with you
actually ellen, it’s in the 8th…
Pat
I was typing the comment about a more relaxed A-Rod when the count was 3-2. So yes if he popped out I would have said the same thing.
S.A. –
Another way of saying the same thing is – Yankees won’t give up the lead!
Isn’t that a much better way to think?
Man, he really can’t hold a lead
V, you can look at recent streaks and fold them into the season and say stagnant or progress. I agree, numbers don’t lie but you can also get them to tell any story you want.
14-12 in May. 6 of those wins were against Seattle who just sucks.
Remove the Seattle anomaly and they won ONLY 1 series in that month.
Now, if they lose 3 in a row, win 2, lose 1, win 3, lose 2, win 5, lose 3 what do you call that? Progress, I don’t see it.
Kay and Singleton jinxed that.
Also, I just bought too expensive tickets for tomorrow’s game, whee.
S.A. – so now what you say is, we’ll get the lead back!
A positive thought for every situation.
oh, crud…
That is -not- the right place to put that pitch. Bad, bad, bad location.
I don’t believe it. Andy gave up another lead! And with 2 outs.
And the Yanks will have to score some more runs to win this game.
and there is the token homerun ball
Pettitte is an absolute joke tonight.
trisha – men, not machines
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 pm
S.A. –
Another way of saying the same thing is – Yankees won’t give up the lead!
Isn’t that a much better way to think?
—————
would be if it were true… grife
Way to go Pettitte! How many times does this guy want the offense to get him a lead?
What a see saw game.
Oh Jesus Christ!
geez andy…can’t you hold a lead???
Andy..
**sigh**
Rebecca,
It’s Joba’s first start. I think Mastercard would classify that as “priceless.”
Yanks have blown a lot of leads lately. Thank god we have Joba going into the rotation.
“V, you can look at recent streaks and fold them into the season and say stagnant or progress. I agree, numbers don’t lie but you can also get them to tell any story you want.
14-12 in May. 6 of those wins were against Seattle who just sucks.
Remove the Seattle anomaly and they won ONLY 1 series in that month.
Now, if they lose 3 in a row, win 2, lose 1, win 3, lose 2, win 5, lose 3 what do you call that? Progress, I don’t see it.”
They have ARod back. Say what you will, but the Yankees -needed- ARod while he was gone. The best hitter in the lineup, poof, gone, replaced by the likes of Ensberg and Betemit and Gonzalez.
They are a much better team with him.
Granted, the starting rotation has regressed since he’s been back…
The Twins are a gritty gutset team, Ya?
“S.A. – so now what you say is, we’ll get the lead back!”
Hopefully!
Uh oh things are looking fairly dark for Okajima.
thanks Sunny!!
I think V and ghidrah are the same troll.
“Trisha,
You are the dumbest person that has ever posted on this blog. You have no clue what goes on in the game of baseball and what is good play or bad play, or what is a good team or bad team. Your rah-rah crap clogs up the blog, adds nothing, and is trolling in it’s own right.”
Well ghidtroll, I would certainly like something a little more scientific than your sayso here! While it is possible I am the dumbest person that has ever posted here, I somehow don’t think so.
After all, pal, you’re here!
Pettitte just can’t hold leads anymore.
After tonight, Girardi can’t allow him to pitch into the 7th inning with leads anymore.
He tried it again tonight, the right move, but that has to be it from here on out.
He flushed three more leads tonight. Too many times this season this has happened. You now remove that responsibility from his shoulders.
This team is flawed enough. At some point, you have protect leads.
That’s why you have a bullpen.
It’s got to be some kind of wierd miracle that Pettite only gives up runs after the Yanks score… where’s Elias when you need em…?
“And Pettitte gives the run right friggin back. Tell me this isn’t a pathetic, gutless ballclub.”
Manny Ramirez, is that you? Shouldn’t you be somewhere embarrassing yourself by posing after a home run? Isn’t there some groundout you should be lazily running out? You don’t have time to be posting on this blog. Your dreads need disinfecting.
Good teams know when to put an opponent away; put the game on ice by a back breaking inning in later innings. This team needs to learn how to make that happen. Living on the edge is not the way to go – game in and game out.
Oh Andy…
Back to work bats….back to work!
Three blown leads. Wow
Ok get more runs Yanks
“Uh oh things are looking fairly dark for Okajima.”
WOWEE!!!
Thanks for the heads up. If O’s don’t capitalize something is really wrong.
ghidrah
Do you know ER? Your posts sound alot alike.
“The Twins are a gritty gutset team, Ya?”
Why? Because they are hitting mistake pitches? They are Major League players. That’s what they’re supposed to do.
you’re welcome “I make…” uh dude.
Giambi, is stagnant, especially when you count an entire season. It took him until the middle of May to get above the same average he had at the end of April.
then it took until May 20th for him to reach .200.
It has only been the last 7 games that he has started hitting. When the competition changes from Baltimore, Seattle, and young Minnesota pitching, lets see what happens.
If he continues, I will be the first to say to you, “you were right, I jumped the gun on his performance.
Same will hold true if by the All Star break the Yankees resemble a winning team.
Way to go Okie Dokie!
I hate this team sometimes.
speaking of lost leads… looks like the sawx gave up theirs as well… not that that is much consolation in this game.
Nice play by Jeter.
He was safe.
ghidrah,
You constant use of the word pathetic is a true indication of your intelligence. Derek Jeter just got thrown out trying to get himself into scoring position in a tied ball game.
Is that gutless too? I would say that is pretty ballsy. Thats a leader right there trying to WILL his team back in the game. But I guess thats pathetic, huh?
“Sid the Kid
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I think V and ghidrah are the same troll.”
Nice name change. Did you do that just for me?
I use only one name. I don’t need to change names to argue.
why was jeter trying to stretch it into a double?? why???
Now idiotic baserunning from Jeter.
What a ballclub.
I told you before there is no way the Yanks can win this game. They have turned into a team of complete worthless losers.
“Do you know ER? Your posts sound alot alike.”
I was thinking russ m
We need to win this game somehow. Let’s go Yankees! Come on!
Baltimore tied it up.
gardner swiped his IL leading 20th sb.
Prediction (since this seems like the Yankees’ luck):
14th inning the yanks take a 5 run lead. A 3-man BP gives up 6 runs in the bottom of the 14th and blows the game.
Tomorrow, Joba and Giese combine for 9 scoreless innings but lose when Hawkins comes in the 10th and first pitch gives up a homerun.
That would make my week =/
Bottom of the 8th time. My fingers are crossed
I CANT DEAL WITH ANOTHER F***ING EXTRA INNING GAME YANKS PLEASE FIND A WAY TO SCORE OFF NATHAN!!!!!!!!!!
this is almost as frustrating as that baltimore game where they blew two 4 run leads.
Good play by Jeter, better play by Cuddayer.
You have to try and get in scoring position on that play.
The guy made a great throw. When you can play defense, that happens.
Just remember that in the off-season when folks want to spend 500 million on offense only players.
Find me 3 starting pitchers and guys who make contact and defend, and I’ll take my chances against “all star at every position” types of teams.
Here comes Kyle!
Obviously Girardi is trying to not go to the pen. He obviously has to go this next half inning but Joba is at a very limited pitch tomorrow night. He might not make it past the 4th realistically. Pettitte needed to eat innings tonite plain and simple. He took one for the team, not his fault we left 10+ in scoring position. Goes back to the offenses shoulder IMHO.
The play was in front of Jeter. The RF had the ball of the bag all the way and it was terrible chance to take in a tie game with the number 3 and 4 hitters coming up.
Enjoy the coming loss.
God knows what to do with Farnsy!!!!!!
Krazy Kyle time. Oh my
Why am I not surprised?
Mark my word, this game is over.
Maybe Farnsy needs to do what Britton does to pitch, hold something of Girardi’s hostage till Girardi realizes that he sucks
jesus christ Farnsy
I WANNA KILL CUDDYER AND KYLE
Time for the psycho Farns to throw his usual batting practice…
oh man, I would really favor a trade for a set-up man right now.
There’s a double
Dear Kyle Farnsworth: Giving up lead off doubles in a tie game is not exactly why George, Hank and Hal sign your paycheck.
you get that eerie feeling there is no way the yanks win this game.
farnsworth gives up at least 2
CANO INJURED!!
LIvan hernandez was who we thought he was…and we just let him off the hook. Don’t we need out bullpen for tomorrow? That’s why Pett went back out there IMO
livan hernandez has now pitched 6 or more innings in 12 out of 14 starts .
More gutless play from a Yankee. Cudyer plays the ball correctly. Abreu chokes and plays the ball into a double.
I TOLD YOU SO. YANKS ARE LOSING THIS GAME AS IF THERE EVER WAS A DOUBT.
Oy to the Vey
“The play was in front of Jeter. The RF had the ball of the bag all the way and it was terrible chance to take in a tie game with the number 3 and 4 hitters coming up.
Enjoy the coming loss.”
You know nothing about baseball. If I could I would love to smack you in the mouth.
Farnsworth… bleep bleep bleep bleep and then some.
Okijima can’t find the plate tonight.
O’s just took a 5-3 lead.
Didn’t ghidtroll tell us they swept the O’s?
This will be the worst loss of the year.
Man on third, one out
A situation we failed twice this game
Testing. . .
Jumbo had to freakin’ BOUNCE that ball from what like 20 feet?!?!?!?!
Game over.
Baltimore up 6-3.
The Return of Farnsworthless
yeh now talk radio has a show tonight
“ghidrah June 2nd, 2008 at 9:43 pm
More gutless play from a Yankee. Cudyer plays the ball correctly. Abreu chokes and plays the ball into a double.
I TOLD YOU SO. YANKS ARE LOSING THIS GAME AS IF THERE EVER WAS A DOUBT.”
I sense anger. Were you hugged enough when you were a child?
Obviously kyle can’t pitch the 8th
…We should not be losing this game right now.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH.
Why does Girardi still use him?
Are we missing something?
Okijima gives up a three run double to Adam Jones
Coaching Visit to the Mound!! Coaching Visit to the Mound!! Coaching Visit to the Mound!! Coaching Visit to the Mound!!
Now its time for Farnsworth to overthrow and give up 10 more runs. Pete, please send the Yankees my “I hate you for ruining my night” envelope.
*sigh* — I go away for a week and come back to see my Yanks are exactly where I left them
I have heard they’ve had some bright spots though.
So…
Has Girardi gotten the “Farnsworth isn’t good” memo yet?
The Red sox lose and we can’t even catch up? Maybe Arod needs to fix that
Release this f…in fool already. I can deal with losing but not when the psycho is on the mound. He is a DISGRACE!!!
I have nothing to say. Consistently amazed.
Joe….please stop using Farnsworth. There has got to be SOMEONE better than this.
There we go.
You guys are complete dolts if you ever had faith the Yanks could win this game.
And Girardi is the new Clueless Joe by pitching Farnsworth. He obviously does not want to win that badly…
Krazy Kyle.
**sigh**
The Twins are able to score with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. Those missed opportunities by the Yanks early on are coming back to haunt them.
Let’s hope Kyle can get out of this without giving up any more runs.
C’mon Girardi – get off your @%# and go visit the frickin’ mound!!!
are we done with Farnsworth yet?
god farnsworth. what is it going to take? he was doing so well up until it was time for him to step up and take over the setup role. i don’t know why the hell i was thinking believing he would actually step up and embrace the challenge, but no, when we need him most he sucks ass yet again. he can go to hell as far as i’m concerned.
So Ghidrah, how’s your team doing???
Wow, what a gutless performance by Hideki Okajima. He mailed it in for that one. That’s the spirit, blow the lead and don’t even give your team a chance to come back. Farnsworth is terrible but at least he isn’t getting absolutely pounded like Okajima did.
Joe ought to give Edwar a shot at set-up. If it works, great; if it doesn’t, go back to Farnsworth until you find someone else. Krazy Kyle will probably do the job at least one in three times.
If we lose, it will be on the offense leaving a whole gaggle of men on base.
cough**brian fuentes/damaso marte cough**
Who cares about the fraking Red Sox game????
This team is PATHETIC
Didn’t deserve to win this game for 1 second
Hi Pete
6-3 Os
Find me 3 starting pitchers and guys who make contact and defend, and I’ll take my chances against “all star at every position†types of teams.
SJ, perfectly said. I really do hope the Yankees can get back to that. I also believe contact hitters foul off pitches better and thus make pitchers work, running up pitch counts, which used to be a Yankee trademark.
Pitching, defense, decent hitting is what’s needed to form a championship type team imo.
Girardi is going to continue hurting this team by just handing Farnsworth the 8th inning role without any basis in performance.
Roles on this team were supposed to be based on performance.
Look at Farnsworth’s overall performance this year – it’s been absolutely awful.
Yet Girardi insists on going to him in high leverage situations.
And its going to continue to hurt this team.
He refused to take Pettite out when he should have.
There’s no reason why Edwar shouldn’t be given the opportunity to pitch this inning. None. He’s completely outpitched Farnsworth this year so far.
But until Girardi decides that being a “veteran” isn’t as important as getting guys out this is going to continue to happen.
It’s not about Joba going to the rotation. It’s about being flexible enough to give other guys an opportunity.
We’ve seen what Farnsworth can and can’t do.
There is no “new Kyle.” There just isn’t.
Is there really a point in pitching this retard? I mean do they really expect him to get people out??!
It’s definitely a bad sign that it has become expected for Farnsworth to give up the lead. Everytime I see him warming up I start thinking about how we can get the lead back. Jesus.
farnsworth is not the answer.
This is like a trip to the dentist
Nice ad for Dykefinder.com you got there uptop Pete =] Anyone looking for single lesbian and bi chics? I wonder what set that ad off, lol..
Randy,
Hernandez pitched like crap tonight. He played against a below average offensive team and left behind in the game.
Unfortunately, Andy Pettitte can no longer hold leads.
Livan Hernandez would be nothing but a 5 million dollar waste on the Yankees.
This team is more than one pitcher away from being respectable and Hernandez isn’t even respectable.
Can’t wait to hear Girardi try to prop up Kyle after this one.
Mark Melancon, get ready. Your’re next.
If its going to be a rebuilding year, do it with kids.
Stop wasting time and money on guys who are undependable.
bphill, i’m with ya. the problem is i don’t think anyone would trade for our hapless bullpen
Losing a game the day before Joba is set to start precisely because of that fact hurts.
I think you meant freaking
“Who cares about the fraking Red Sox game????”
Believe it or not, we need to care about the Crock Sox because we don’t want them or the Rays getting too far ahead of us. Trust me – the Yankees are keeping their eye on them as well. They are stupid if they don’t.
wow, agreeing with michael kay makes me sick.
Farnsworthless blowing a game and SJ44 posting novels about why we stink. God hates all of us.
“This is like a trip to the dentist”
I actually like my dentist. He’s a nice guy.
I’m wondering…
At what point will Joe Girardi start to lose confidence in Farnsworth’s ability to pitch the 8th?
How much proof does he need?
Damn Krazy Kyle strikes again, although Pettitte really didn’t help himself out tonight either.
Ack, annoying.
Ignore the person whose name looks like giddyup.
2/4 against the Twins is overachieving for this team
I wonder how long can Fransworth pitch before Girardi and Cashman admit Fransworth isn’t a set-up guy.Problem is Edwar and Ohlendorff ain’t no better.
Once again it’s easy to pitch the 8th who needs Joba there right guys.As long as Joba pitches 6 great innings who cares how many blown saves and holds are given up during he’s 5 days of rest.
Joba better be Verlander so he can shut me up because Kay on YES like most people here is saying how Fransworth isn’t good and the Yankees need a set-up guy but the problem is Joba was that guy.
geez now i got an inkling of what it was like being a Yankee fan during the dark ages
When will they start sharing revenue based on standings?
I mean are we the new Devil Rays or what?
look for daddy Yankee to be changing his name soon
coming up we have Alex, Matsui and stache right?
Jeez Farns
OK…I am guessing the Girardi lost a bet to Kyle and no matter what, Joe is going to show “faith” in him. this stinks….and I know that it’s been said a hundred times, but I totally HATE the YES Network…can you have an entire network that is more geared for the OTHER team ? From the announcers favoring the other team…to repeated “shots” of the OTHER team celebrating and the OTHER team’s stars and the OTHER team’s great plays….They just need to change their name to the OTHER TEAM Network and start speaking the truth, because they are the worst. Did I miss something, or do most Yankee fans want to see a game and hear announcers that ARE YANKEE FANS TOO ??? If I wanted to hear how great the OTHER team was, I would just listen to the OTHER teams’ broadcast……I am SO sick of this cr@p !
I meant fraking. Guess some never watch BG.
I think we should worry more about the Orioles considering we are battling with them for last place.
“This is like a trip to the dentist”
Actually, it was reminding me of a trip to the gynecologist.
Couldn’t agree with you more SJ44
Melancon! Melancon! Melancon! Melancon!
Joe Girardi….stop the bleeding…get him out of there!
Has Girardi not learned his lesson? Farnsworthless has no spot on this team. He doesn’t belong. So where is Joba when you need him? ughhh. Now fans are turning their heads..and wondering where there 8th and 9th inning one two punch went.
http://zellspinstripeblog.wordpress.com/
Kevin
“I meant fraking. Guess some never watch BG.”
I watch BG. I think the correct spelling is fracking. I could be wrong.
At some point, when do you take him out? I mean, geez, its bad enough this team torched 3 leads tonight, take him out for God sake.
new role for farnsworth? relief pitching is new for him?? whether he pitches in the 6th, 7th, 8th, or whatever the goal is the same — GET OUTS!!!!!
Laura – A big fan of hitting with RISP
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 pm
“This is like a trip to the dentistâ€
Actually, it was reminding me of a trip to the gynecologist.
——————–
I wouldn’t know about that… but I’ll take your word for it.
“This is like a trip to the dentistâ€
“I actually like my dentist. He’s a nice guy.”
That’s cool. I just hate going to the dentist…
I think Pete tried to block me again.
Pettitte was terrible tonight.
How did Santana look last night for the Mets???
That’s what an ace looks like.
Hard to believe, but I think Girardi is even more loyal to veterans than Torre was.
Look I don’t know what the answer to the 8th is, but we all knew that there was going to be a transition when Joba left the pen.
It is what it is. There were people here who said that great relief in the 7th and 8th wasn’t critical. But I never made any pretense of thinking life without a sure bridge to Mo was going to be an easy thing. I loved Joba in the pen and my preference was to keep him there this season. I respect that the Yankees felt we’d be better served with him in the rotation. But I had no illusions about this turning into a cakewalk once we lost him for the 8th.
Hopefully this will shake out somewhere along the line.
“Kyle Being Kyle” just doesn’t have the same ring to it. You can’t be a baseball idiot savant without the savant part.
So now he brings Edwar in to clean up Kyle’s mess?
Ughhhhhh.
The only time Farnsworthless should be on the mound is if there is a bench clearing brawl.
Ah… heart of the order. Let’s go.
““The play was in front of Jeter. The RF had the ball of the bag all the way and it was terrible chance to take in a tie game with the number 3 and 4 hitters coming up.
Enjoy the coming loss.â€
You know nothing about baseball. If I could I would love to smack you in the mouth.”
Enjoy this stellar display of baseball from the New York Yankees!
Kelvin
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Farnsworthless blowing a game and SJ44 posting novels about why we stink. God hates all of us.
Kelvin,
What do you disagree with in SJ44’s post?
god first there twins take the lead and now I have to listen to this god damn Coldplay commercial.
dale d,
The early 90’s were far worse than this for the Yankees. They weren’t even competitive. The 1990 team had no offense, terrible starting pitching and a mediocre bullpen. As bad as the Yankees look now, this team is light years better than the 1989-1992 Yankees.
This one is on Pettitte. He blew 3 leads……we already know Farnsworth sucks………
time for them to go down 1-2-3 in the 9th. or more likely, get a leadoff double and not drive him in.
9th inning, let’s go!!!
when will girardi get it through his thick skull?
“Hard to believe, but I think Girardi is even more loyal to veterans than Torre was.”
Who knew that was possible?
“Joba better be Verlander”
Actually NO!! Verlander has been horrible this year. I should know – he was on my fantasy team.
BTW, my fantasy pitching roster has been atrocious. When I drafted, I thought I could go no wrong. I’ve dropped Phil Hughes and Verlander. Fausto Carmona’s on the DL. And now Andy Pettitte is struggling. What keeps my team afloat is Beckett, Papelbon & Joba (thank goodness I drafted him!)
Blame the person who put this crap team together.
Blame Cashman. The guy who put a 200 mill roster together and left out a lefty in the pen, a reliable set up man, a bench with any power or speed, no 1b to speak of, and leaving 2 21 yr olds in the rotation on innings counts.
Great job, Cashman for giving us this disaster. 90% of the posters here could put together a better team given 200 mill.
You really have to wonder when the time is going to come that Cash and Girardi will admit that they cant send the psycho out there with a lead to pitch. It has got to the point where the team has to know when he comes in that he is going to blow the game and I am sure he doesnt have confidence either. You just cant pitch him anymore. He has thrown away way too games for this team.
Once again, Farnsworth craps the bed. I am so happy that the 8th inning is in his hands from now on.
“Kyle Being Kyle†just doesn’t have the same ring to it. You can’t be a baseball idiot savant without the savant part.
Line of the night!
“Farnsworthless blowing a game and SJ44 posting novels about why we stink. God hates all of us.”
Ok, Alex. Take good hacks. Don’t try and send the ball to the moon.
“I watch BG. I think the correct spelling is fracking. I could be wrong.”
I watch BSG too. I always thought it was fracking. As in “fracking cylons”
“Pettitte was terrible tonight.
How did Santana look last night for the Mets???
That’s what an ace looks like.”
Oh how I love revisionist history. I bet you were one of the guys creaming in his pants over “Generation Tre” weren’t you?? I bet you were. So easy to wine over not getting Santana.
Please, enough with the Joba in the 8th inning nonsense.
The damn starting pitcher on the team blew 3 leads.
THREE.
We all know Kyle is terrible.
However, if you have good starting pitching, you don’t blow 3 leads in a game.
All of you who are so caught up in the 8th inning, how many teams put their best pitcher in the 8th inning? Nobody.
If Joba was in the rotation, and getting his innings in, these are WINS.
Makes perfect sense. Have your best arm pitch less than 5% of the teams innings this year.
That’s a great strategy.
This team isn’t one player away from being good. Its rebuilding and if they are going to rebuild, they might well get Joba’s feet wet in the rotation. That’s where he belongs.
believe.
Good hit, Alex!!!!!
Good eye A-Rod
Silver lining for the “Joba must stay in the bullpen crowd”: at least you’re not worse than Steve Philips.
Farnsworth is literally gasoline. It is time he was dumped somehow. I don’t care if we have a bullpen of kids. Farnsworth must go. Hawkins must go. And Girardi should give Pettitte a smack.
“What do you disagree with in SJ44’s post?”
Who said I disagree? I just can’t read them. I just love seeing his/her War and Peace posts everytime the Yankees start losing or blow a lead. It is as reliable as death and taxes. I just diagree with SJ’s general know it all attitude about everything. And his pompous attitude. I know that will get the trolls and SJ defenders up in arms but thats the truth.
4 Earned Run for Okayjima….. HELL Yeah!!!
F U Okayjima !!!!!!!!!
Must agree with SJ44 here
If Joba pitches – it’s 5-0 going into the 8th.
One run doesn’t kill us.
Come on Matsui!
How is Nathan at holding runners? would love to see an SB here.
I think Philips is engaging in the Fallacy of the False Silver Goatee.
If we lose this game it will be very frustrating…. 3 times we had the lead… and we gave it up… hope the guys will find a way to win this one…
Nick,
Every time I think you’ve reached your zenith you surprise…
Idiot savant without the savant… good stuff.
If Alex gets picked off here, I’m going to slap him!
I Want to Believeâ„¢
just homer Matsui
Show us some signs of life Yankees. Cut the crap and win this damn game
What’s that, the 4th DP tonight?
Wow. PERFECT TIME TO RUN AND WE GET A DP!!!!
AAPGPAGPOBaGJIADSGGPBKjas
jesus christ
^%$% GIDP…
Oh how I love revisionist history. I bet you were one of the guys creaming in his pants over “Generation Tre†weren’t you?? I bet you were. So easy to wine over not getting Santana.
Actually, no Doc. I realized last November what this team needed more than anything. They needed an ace. And guess whos available??? An ace named Santana. And guess what? He’s lefty too! And has dominated the AL!
Kennedy is a 4th starter at best and I think we all know that Melky is average. And what from Hughes has made anyone here think “ace”???
Santana was our ticket to the dance and Cashman choked it because he wants writers to respect him and not his payroll.
crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And with the strikeout… night is complete.
HR over the baggie please!!!!!!!!
this team has become so irritating to watch this year. i cant stand this
damn it!
“BTW, my fantasy pitching roster has been atrocious. When I drafted, I thought I could go no wrong. I’ve dropped Phil Hughes and Verlander. Fausto Carmona’s on the DL. And now Andy Pettitte is struggling. What keeps my team afloat is Beckett, Papelbon & Joba (thank goodness I drafted him!)”
Mine is godawful. My only bright spot (Matsuzaka, egh) is on the DL. Oliver Perez, blegh. Pettitte, Laffey, Perkins. My offense kicks A, but my pitching is horrid.
Wow, Laffey serves up a grand slam, so I’ve lost three potential wins today (Pettitte, Rafael Soriano (Smoltz blew the save), and Laffey). 13 ER in 13 innings.
20 team keeper H2H 5×5 league.
Kelvin,
“Who said I disagree? I just can’t read them.”
Then don’t
This one hurt.
Almost as bad as the O’s game the other night.
cue the YOKOS
Thanks Andy Petite (and Krazy Kyle) for blowing this one.
maybe now girardi will stop having ‘FAITH’ in farnssuck
Well tomorrow is a loss since Joba is going vs Halladay and going no more than 4 innings.
Mean thought – based on how annoying he is as a commentator.
I’m really glad Bert Blyleven isn’t in the HOF.
painful loss
Back under .500.
All of you on Girardi’s case about Farnsworth and bitching about the GIDP better be careful, it will appear that you are being negative and you will be labeled fair weather fan.
On a side note, if you listen long enough to Steve Phillips and orel Hershiser, you can see why they are in the booth. Their understanding of the game makes the former Russ M look brilliant.
i didn’t see the whole game…did we TURN any DP’s tonight??
We should not have lost this game.
I am pissed. I need to smoke something. Argh!
“Oh how I love revisionist history. I bet you were one of the guys creaming in his pants over “Generation Tre†weren’t you?? I bet you were. So easy to wine over not getting Santana.
Actually, no Doc. I realized last November what this team needed more than anything. They needed an ace. And guess whos available??? An ace named Santana. And guess what? He’s lefty too! And has dominated the AL!
Kennedy is a 4th starter at best and I think we all know that Melky is average. And what from Hughes has made anyone here think “ace�??
Santana was our ticket to the dance and Cashman choked it because he wants writers to respect him and not his payroll.”
It has nothing to do with wanting writers to respect him, and a lot more to do with not wanting to sign a 7 year deal with a guy who’s already losing velocity. That contract is going to be an albatross by the time it’s over.
Pathetic game. Gave up every single lead they had. Absolutely pitiful. Embarressing.
the more I watch this team the more I relize they just arent very good
stupid stupid stupid team!!
Memo to Cashman:
Look at the Twins bullpen. That’s how you build a bullpen. And they lost there 8th inning guy last month.
Now I will say this is the most frustrating game of the season. Because we now once again go under .500.
Another loss snatched from the jaws of victory.
“If Joba pitches – it’s 5-0 going into the 8th.”
Reasonable expectations might be more prudent but probably too much to ask for.
I TOLD YOU SO
Honestly, there is never a whale around when you need one.
Well that truly sucked. Get home, flip on the game, and the every first pitch I see is Farnsy giving up the go-ahead hit.
Go to sleep now, Joba.
“the more I watch this team the more I relize they just arent very good”
russ m we know it’s you give it a rest and use your SN
SJ44, this team isn’t rebuilding yet. We are still in contender mode. That’s why many weren’t happy that Joba’s a starter – in the current state of the Yankees, he’s more effective as the setup guy than as a starter. If we kept him in the bullpen, we’d have a better chance of winning close games in the 8th & 9th. But now we have to rely on Kyle & Edwar. And they’re just not consistent enough.
This team will officially rebuild when (1)we shed ALL the final year contracts after this season (2)not sign free agents to long & expensive contracts (no Sabathia & Texeira) and (3)start over with the kids from SWB. That is rebuilding.
Joba is not going to start out pitching shutouts. Please, I implore you, don’t get expectations so high that he is doomed to failure – which means, if you expect him to pitch a shutout and he gives up one run, he will have failed in your eyes.
Joba is going to be a good, probably great starting pitcher, but not on Tuesday. On Tuesday his assignment is to throw, what, 50-60 pitches? And try to keep his team in the first part of the game.
The Yankees offense probably should have scored more than 5 runs tonight, but 5 runs should have been enough to win. They had the lead 3 times. Not a huge lead, but it shouldn’t have to be a huge lead every time.
Kyle apparently can’t handle the “promotion.” Too bad. Next.
This was a bad loss. Despite blowing many scoring opportunities the Yanks still gave Andy 3 leads and he blew all of them. If Andy holds one of those leads the Yanks win and the wasted scoring opportunities and Farsnworth don’t affect the outcome of the game. This is all on Andy tonight.
The Yanks now come home and turn the ball over to Joba and have to face Halliday (not an easy task). Should be fun tomorrow night at the Stadium.
“It has nothing to do with wanting writers to respect him, and a lot more to do with not wanting to sign a 7 year deal with a guy who’s already losing velocity. That contract is going to be an albatross by the time it’s over.”
And Pavanos wasn’t? farnsworth? Giambi? Karsay??
You sense where Im going with this??? These are the Yankees!! They play by different rules and no contract matters to them. And when will Santanas be bad?? In year 5?
You wouldn’t take 5 years of dominant starting pitching??
And if we have the great system everyone says we do whats it matter they we trade 3 top prospects?
Cashman wants to be noticed that he won not with a payroll but with kids that he brought in. He has a 250 million dollar payroll and he doesn’t use it cos he’s embarrassed. He has a great farm system and doesn’t trade from it to help the big league club.
Kelvin,
Don’t read the posts. Its not a cheerleader blog. Its never going to be no matter how many folks try to make it that way.
Im so sick of hearing about Joba starting tomorrow. Who cares he is only going to pitch 4 innings plus the yanks joke of an offense is facing holiday
So let’s see. Joba pitches it’s 5-0 going into the 8th. There’s one game. Everyone else pitches and we need someone to hold the lead in the 8th and there’s no Joba. Uh yeah. That makes good sense.
Let’s take one out of 5 instead of 4 out of 5.
Good thinking there SJ.
Just reported on ESPN News Papi is out indefinitely, could be a month could be season ending surgery.
This is loss, more than any other, is really a microcosm of what is wrong with the Yankees. And that is everything.
Tbis team is not good enough to make it to the postseason. It just isn’t.
Breaking news. Ortiz out a month and may need season ending surgery.
Memo to Howie Fell:
Cashman is building a bullpen. Or haven’t you noticed the low-cost, low-risk, high-upside Melancons, Coxes, Edwars, and Brittons who are knocking on the pen’s doors?
This loss isn’t on the bullpen, although Farnsworth gave up the go-ahead run: it’s on Pettitte, who couldn’t hold a lead, and the offense, who couldn’t get the baserunners home. More the former than the latter, though; six runs should have been enough against this Twins team.
SJ44 also wanted to “rebuild” last yr. How did that go for you last yr, SJ44??
Even mediocre teams win a game like this.
The Yanks are just a bad baseball team with a bad GM and a bad manager, case closed.
I dont care how good Matsui has been hitting, his pulling of an outside pitch has gotten to be VERY old already. He does it all the freakin time!! Also there is no excuse for Arod not trying to steal 2nd in the 9th. Nathan is not fast to the plate and everyone expected a DP from Matsui. What a dreadful game to watch tonight. They had a runner on 3rd, 3 times with 1 out and could not get any of them in. Just plain old pathetic.
Also it is time for Cano to sit for a 2 games. There is a different between just not hitting like Giambi was doing…but he is killing the team. Someone has to let him know that it is not going to be exceptable to swing wildly at the 1st pitch 30 ft off the plate every time up. I am sick of him already.
If farnsworth is the answer, we’re asking the wrong question lol.
Looking forward to Joba’s first start tomorrow, and hoping that patience will prevail as he takes his first step towards being a mainstay of the starting rotation for years to come.
Doreen,
You are the voice of reason. Even after Joba gets his legs, I’m not expecting naything better than 6 innings 3 runs from him on a consistent basis. Sure, I’d love it to be better, but we can’t expect perfection from the start.
The Yankees are truly a .500 team. Bad pitching, horrible defense and inconsistent offense. We’ll be lucky to finish 4th in the AL East this year.
This one is on Pettitte, no one else. Blowing leads of 2-0, 4-2 and 5-4 is completely unacceptable. He has blown numerous leads all season and has been completely atrocious. Its time someone called him out for this garbage.
With a win tomorrow, we make up ground on 2 teams in front of us- the Jays and whoever wins the game between Rays/Sox. Yanks need to fire it up the next 3 games.
in order to protect a lead you have to have one in the first place. The way this offense has been lately, an 8th inning guy isn’t going to matter when you’re losing 6-0
“SJ44, this team isn’t rebuilding yet. We are still in contender mode. That’s why many weren’t happy that Joba’s a starter – in the current state of the Yankees, he’s more effective as the setup guy than as a starter. If we kept him in the bullpen, we’d have a better chance of winning close games in the 8th & 9th. But now we have to rely on Kyle & Edwar. And they’re just not consistent enough.”
Good post ladybug. But if SJ doesn’t agree well then you must be wrong.
You’re right according to a lot of people including people in the YES booth. So you’re in good company.
“SJ44, this team isn’t rebuilding yet. We are still in contender mode. That’s why many weren’t happy that Joba’s a starter – in the current state of the Yankees, he’s more effective as the setup guy than as a starter. If we kept him in the bullpen, we’d have a better chance of winning close games in the 8th & 9th. But now we have to rely on Kyle & Edwar. And they’re just not consistent enough.
This team will officially rebuild when (1)we shed ALL the final year contracts after this season (2)not sign free agents to long & expensive contracts (no Sabathia & Texeira) and (3)start over with the kids from SWB. That is rebuilding.”
You do not keep Joba in the pen to win a couple close games (even if Farnsy doesn’t give up that run, the Yankees probably still fail to score). He is a -starting pitcher-. Leave him as a bullpen guy this year, and guess what? He’s not going to be a full-time starter for three years (due to innings considerations).
*Five runs would have been enough, rather.
Joba may have his struggles initially. Let’s try and remember that.
I just hope the rest of the team will somehow play smart baseball tomorrow.
You like how he’s built the pen Phoenix??? Girardi seems to have a lot of faith in the guys you mentioned, right????
Please. Spare me.
Cashman wouldn’t know a good pitcher if Brandon Webb knocked on his door.
Let’s be real honest. Rivera has made him look real good penwise the past decade. Who else has he brought in the past 10 years????
The yanks offense is going on a holiday…where are they going???
“It has nothing to do with wanting writers to respect him, and a lot more to do with not wanting to sign a 7 year deal with a guy who’s already losing velocity. That contract is going to be an albatross by the time it’s over.”
^^^^^^THANK YOU!!!^^^^^^^^^
It’ll be the day when the dreamers realize that Santana was a short term solution that will end up as a long term problem. He will not be an ace during the last years of that contract and it will be a burden on the roster.
tough news on Ortiz
NESN. Possible ligament damage. Immobilization and if it doesn’t heal, possible season-ending surgery.
MLB who’s gonna call your shot now, please say Manny
LISTEN EVERYONE – this season is about hoping Joba can show is a number one starter. Hoping some kids come up from the minors and pitch well in the pen. Its about Firing Cashman in the off season and getting CC as a free agent….Its about next year and building for it…I know that no1 whats to hear that but this team just isnt good this year they have no pen/bench
“Just reported on ESPN News Papi is out indefinitely, could be a month could be season ending surgery.”
Good. I didn’t wish the injury on him but I don’t feel bad that he’s out!
Ask the Pirates how the rebuilding is going since Bonds left. Ask the Royals how the rebuilding is going since Brett left. You don’t rebuild in baseball. It isn’t football. You should already be reloading thru the draft and latin america way before you need to “rebuild”.
You should never have to rebuild if you draft well and sign good latin players and good free agents.
WOW-just heard that about Ortiz.
Yikes
night all… can’t wait to hear Pettite’s post game interview.
It’s like yelling at a brick wall.
Joba is not a reliever. He is not. Period. He was an elite pitcher in the minors. Not good. Not great. Elite.
That is not a reliever. That is a starter. ANY good, solid starting pitcher is going to make an amazing reliever – because relievers only have to gear up for one inning at a time.
Trisha,
You don’t really want to have a baseball conversation do you?
If you do, let’s put down the poms and poms and talk baseball.
Tell me what you think of Andy Pettitte’s performances this year? Do you not notice the habit of him being unable to hold leads?
How about Kyle Farnsworth, your personal favorite? Would you keep him in the 8th inning? On the team? What do you think?
What do you think of the team so far this year? The offense? Defense? Good team, contending team, World Series team? Tell me what you think in baseball terms.
Not as a cheerleader. In a baseball sense.
Can’t cheerlead now. Gotta talk baseball. Tell me what you think?
If you just want to take shots at me, that’s ok too. Just remember, I give as good as I get.
So, I’d suggest you keep it in a baseball vein and can the personal stuff.
If we were in contender mode like people say we should have got Santana and got the one thing we desperately needed to contend.
After watching Kennedy and Hughes pitch I think we messed up big time.
Let’s face it, the 2008 version of the NY Yankees is mediocre. There is no legitimate first baseman.(Giambi starts to hit and then gives away runs with his terrible range and overall defense. There is no lefty in the bullpen to deter teams from loading up or even thinking about not using their lefty hitters early, since there’s is no perceived consequences. And now, there is no 8th inning
setup man. To thi nk that Farnsworth would fill that role, given his 2 1/2 year history with the Yankees, is laughable!
Add to the fact that this Team is the worst Hitting team with RISP and it spells
M-E-D-I-O-C-R-I-T-Y.
Cashman has done absolutely NOTHING to fix these problems either.
Folks, what your seeing is a rebuilding season.
Hey Sunny, do you know how many leads the pen has blown since Joba has left the pen? More than one.
The point is that he is missed in the pen.
I look forward to seeing him in the rotation because that’s what my team has decided to do. I think Joba will make a great starter, and it might happen quickly.
But people were in strong denial if they thought there wouldn’t be some negative ramifications when he left the pen.
F U pettite…. go back to freaking texas and inject yourself with horse steroids….
The problem with the bull pen tonight was not the absense of Joba.
It was the presence of Farnsworth.
The result was not a surprise in any way.
And it’s simply not true that Girardi has no other choice.
He does – he’s just unwilling to experiment with roles. That is the problem.
Why do other guys not deserve an opportunity to get big outs?
Why is Edwar warming up after Farnsworth has blown the game.
It’s really not very difficult to manage a pen when you have Joba and Mariano there.
But if you keep insisting on implementing a strategy that has failed time and time again over the past two years then losing games is not a surprise.
Giving anyone else in the pen a shot to pitch the 8th besides Farnsworth just makes sense because you know already that Farnsworth cannot do this job.
“MLB who’s gonna call your shot now, please say Manny”
I doubt it. In Yankee Stadium, it’s got to be a lefty. Better shot of hitting one to right than center or left.
When will someone just put Kyle Farnsworth in his place…is he going to blame this on Torre now? Oh wait…no, he’ll blame it on Girardi, the guy who has faith in him…wait, no..wait…what? oh yeah, he sucks.
SJ44 is obsessed with cheerleaders. Relax, pal. Let trisha root and vent anyway she wants. Maybe she doesn’t want your negativity clouding her. I commend her for that. trisha, don’t let people like SJ44 derail your hope and optimism. He was wrong last year and he will be wrong this year.
You know, it’s a losing cause, and not worth spilling the ink (or the typeface) anymore. If people haven’t been convinced that a guy who was drafted as a starter, who was hailed as one of the top five college starting pitchers in the country when he was drafted, who was hailed as one of the top two right handed starting pitching prospects coming into the 2008 season, who destroyed A and AA ball as a starting pitcher, who has the endurance to throw in the mid-to-high 90s late into ballgames, who has four legitimate major league pitches, and who has the potential to be a home-grown Josh Beckett or Justin Verlander…
…well, they’re not going to be, until Joba Chamberlain is pitching 200 inning seasons with ERAs in the mid-3s and striking out 200 batters a season. Which is going to happen at least once in the next decade, barring injury.
“Good post ladybug. But if SJ doesn’t agree well then you must be wrong.”
Does it REALLY have to be like this around here? Seriously? I happen to agree with SJ on the Joba starting issue and so do alot of other people who are decent, intelligent posters also. I see where you are coming from in thinking he’s more useful to the team as a set-up, and can respect that. I found that “you’re in good company” comment slightly rude though.
Why does it have to be this whole either you’re with us or against us mentality around here. Frack!
V,
Exactly. Joba is a starting pitcher.
Nobody is expecting him to be Cy Young from Day One.
Those of us who want him to start believe this is the year to do it.
If not, you won’t be able to transition him because he won’t be building up his innings.
For those of you who think this team is one player away from being a championship team, no amount of discussion will change your mind.
Most of us see this team for what it is. Flawed, in transition, and see it as the perfect time to transition Joba to the rotation.
If they would have traded for Santana like the real Yankees should have Joba could have got 125 innings out of the pen and became a starter next year. Wow. And we’d have a real pitching staff. Shocker!
George Steinbrenner would never have let Santana be traded to the Mets if it would have cost him Hughes. Never.
Hughes can’t even break 92mph!!
So who’s next to audition for the 8th inning setup role ???? The fact that The Twins have rebuilt their rotation and eveyone other than Livan is under 26 years old…..So far they’re holding their own…..As for Pettite, Girardi really didn’t any many options ….Getting close for that call to AAA for bullpen help…..
What’s the deal with Andy? Giving him a two-run lead seems to be the kiss of death. He looks alternately overpowering and awful in just about every game he pitches. He’s become another starter putting a strain on the bullpen, or at least he will be in the future as I can’t see Girardi going more than six innings with him unless they have a big lead. I’ll be at next Saturday’s game and I’m not all that confident even against KC.
Anyone have a running tally of Farnsworth losses?
By the way, where are all the NoMaas trolls who genuflect at the Cash-”money” shrine, who scourged Joe Torre as the devil incarnate, and touted Girardi as the Second Coming of everyone from Billy Martin to JC himself?
Joe Girardi can’t manage a bullpen any better than Joe Torre. Actually, Girardi is more inept. How many times does he need to see Farnsworth falter in a critical situation to draw the conclusion Torre came to 2 years ago? That whatever his velocity, Farnsworth is too incompetent with pitch selection and too erratic in location ever to be trusted in a critical situation. And yet, Girardi, stubborn, recalcitrant, and blinkered ever continues to return to him.
Is something wrong with Edwar Ramirez that you allot him for early innings or games already decided? And hey, can you at least try Veras once before forswearing him? Also, Did Chris Britton hit on your wife or something? Why do these irrational biases continue to influence Girardi’s bullpen decisions?
Perhaps Cash-”money” and Nardi should implement Farnsworth Rules.
Torre destroyed bullpen arms, granted, but at least, he used the best person the situtation commmanded.
And Cashman, nice move on Vizcaino. I hope that supplemental pick you craved pays dividends in 2011 when you’re working at Goldman Sachs and we’re paying $150 a ticket to watch Jose Tabata strike out five times a game. Cash-money, you’re a genius because in the land of the Steinbrenner-lackey-blind, even the half-wit can be King. Long Live Cash-”money” the King.
More on Ortiz from the Boston Herald
The Boston Herald reports Red Sox DH David Ortiz is expected to miss at least a month, if not more, with a wrist injury. Ortiz, who had a MRI Monday, was told Sunday that he would be sidelined ndefinitely with ligament damage. The Herald reports a source said Ortiz’s wrist will be immobilized for roughly a month to determine whether the injury can heal on its own. If not, Ortiz might have to have season-ending surgery. The Red Sox have still not released any statements regarding Ortiz’s MRI results.
Just reported on ESPN News Papi is out indefinitely, could be a month could be season ending surgery.
Why can’t the Yankees have that kind of luck with Farnsworth and Giambi?
And I’ve always known and accepted taking Joba out of the pen wouldn’t be an easy thing to do. The trouble is there are plenty of guys out there in the bullpen now and the minors who MIGHT be able to contribute and fill that void a bit, but they haven’t been given a chance to thus far.
Tell me about Giese. Could he be piggybacking Joba tomorrow night? If Joba goes 4 tomorrow night, how many is Giese good for?
“You do not keep Joba in the pen to win a couple close games (even if Farnsy doesn’t give up that run, the Yankees probably still fail to score).”
^^If the Yanks are in the playoffs and they’re leading 6-5 after the end of the 7th inning at Yankee Stadium, you mean to tell me that you want to put in Kyle Farnsworth during the 8th??
“Leave him as a bullpen guy this year, and guess what? He’s not going to be a full-time starter for three years (due to innings considerations).”
^^HUH??????????? If he’s a bullpen guy this year, why can’t he become a starter next year?? Why is he stuck in the bullpen for the next three years because he’s a setup man this year? Pitchers are capable of going from starting to relieving (or vice versa) in a year. The only thing teams don’t do is make the switch again.
“Deport Pettite to Texas”
If our season depends on what Joba can give us tomorrow, then we are in big trouble… all great pitchers in the history of the game has their struggles in the beginning that is why I really don’t put too much on the struggles of the Hughes, IPK and possible Joba as a starter…
Joba is just 1 pitcher… if Wang and Pettite and Farnsworth and Cano doest turn their seasons around its going to be an early vacation for us guys…
Cashman is running the Yankees like he’s the Minnesota Twins. Really paying off for us. I do wish George were alive and Hank had some balls to actually overrule his GM. Santana should be starting for us and we should actually spend some money on a bench. So the payroll is 240 instead of 220. Does it really matter??? Betemit, Ensberg, Duncan that is what you get when you nickel and dime it.
For those of you keeping score at home, disagreeing with SJ44 or CB or Pete Abe or anyone else doesn’t make you wrong.
It’s being wrong that makes you wrong.
Why would you want to have that kind of “luck” – especially with Giambi who has been productive lately?
Mindblowing.
“If we were in contender mode like people say we should have got Santana and got the one thing we desperately needed to contend.
After watching Kennedy and Hughes pitch I think we messed up big time.”
Getting Santana for Hughes+Cabrera is exactly what the early 2000s Yankees would have done.
And in 5 years, that contract is going to look ugly. Ugly.
I’ll go ahead and make a fearless prediction – Hughes will have more wins in 2011-2013 combined than Santana.
Just take a look at how the late 90s were constructed. Home grown players at the core, with savvy veteran pickups to fill out the team. You don’t buy your core. Your core comes from within.
KS,
Vizcaino has been out all year with an elbow injury. That was one move that was actually a good one! lol
Seriously though, at some point, you have to transition the team.
Sure Farnsworth stunk tonight. But, this one is on the offense and Andy.
Should have never been close tonight. Too many opportunities to blow the game open were lost.
Your starting pitcher also can’t cough up 3 leads in a game. Especially a veteran starter. Just can’t do it and expect wins.
The bullpen is one issue with the team. Its not THE issue.
I really think that the only reason Cashman is still the GM is because Hank is scared to fire the guy….and did Joe really just say he is good with Farnsworth in the 8th lol
Joba is going to give them 65 pitches and maybe 4 innings tomorrow.
So what?
Then we go right back to Veras, Hawkins, Farnsworth etc
trisha – I agree that joba will be missed in the pen, but at the same time you have to also acknowledge what he brings to the rotation as a starter. 20+ wins (eventually) is big. Especially in short series’ like the ALDS, ALCS, and WS. But this is why we have kids like Melancon, Cox, and others in the minors to try out. You throw them all at the wall and hope they stick.
“The problem with the bull pen tonight was not the absense of Joba.
It was the presence of Farnsworth.”
CB, that was the post of the night.
“Hey Sunny, do you know how many leads the pen has blown since Joba has left the pen? More than one.
The point is that he is missed in the pen.
I look forward to seeing him in the rotation because that’s what my team has decided to do. I think Joba will make a great starter, and it might happen quickly.
But people were in strong denial if they thought there wouldn’t be some negative ramifications when he left the pen.”
I don’t think anyone is denying the fact that he will be missed in the pen and that there could have been/has been negative ramifications.
I honestly didn’t expect the offense to not provide more support to make those later innings less stressful as they have been.
I just hope people also realize that leaving him in the pen would be one of the biggest wastes ever.
“The problem with the bull pen tonight was not the absense of Joba.
It was the presence of Farnsworth.”
Two sides of the same coin.
Glad I missed this game. Tonight has to be the most discouraging of the year. I have good news though, I bet Joe will no longer trust Farnsworth in the 8th automatically. He will have to earn his way back, I hope.
Nick,
Funny and well said.
I don’t wish injuries on ANY player.
Frankly, those that do need more shrink time.
Its a game and there is no reason to wish injuries on anybody.
Tells me something about the people that do when I read stuff like that.
KS,
I completely agree with you on Girardi and the pen. It’s amazing to see him completely ignore history and to just insist on using Farnsworth.
I disagree on Vizcaino – he’s been hurt all season with a sore shoulder. He’s thrown 1.3 innings all season.
How does that help?
Angel
You stated my feelings perfectly. All of us here are Yankees fans except for the trolls. Some are positive, some are negative, all have valid opinions. But I hate the propaganda from both sides about being a bigger fan. If you’re not positive, you’re not a true fan because you don’t believe in the team. If you’re not negative, you lack baseball knowledge.
We’re all fans here, and we come to talk baseball, and should disagree politely. Personal attacks on any poster is simply wrong.
If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all, so I won’t mention either Pettitte or Farnsworth.
On the positive side, the bats certainly seemed lively enough, 15 hits. Nice to see Jeter get going again, but far too many stranded runners.
Anyone else find the Twins announcers annoying ?
Bravo to Dave Trembley for getting tossed out for highlighting umpire incompetance. Good stuff there.
“I’ll go ahead and make a fearless prediction – Hughes will have more wins in 2011-2013 combined than Santana.
Just take a look at how the late 90s were constructed. Home grown players at the core, with savvy veteran pickups to fill out the team. You don’t buy your core. Your core comes from within.”
Stop romanticizing the late 90’s teams. They were built on great starting pitching. That is why they won with Brosius at 3b and nobodies in Left and no power to speak of. Did Cashman learn from this? Nah. He signed Wright, Pavano, Igawa, traded for Johnson at 43, Vazquez.
You also build a deep system so you can add to the big league club. You identify the guys who will be great ie Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Mo and you trade away the ones who won’t ie Gerald Williams, Roberto Kelly, etc.
Anyone here think Hughes will be half of what Santana will be the next 4 years?
Jonah,
If not for meddling George Steinbrenner, the 2008 New York Yankees would have a right-handed ace in his prime fronting this rotation.
His name is Javier Vazquez, and a horde of impatient New Yorkers and George Steinbrenner decreed that an aging Randy Johnson was the solution to Javy’s first season in the AL.
But hey, 77 strikeouts in 78 2/3 innings, with 17 walks, and an ERA of 3.43…no, that’s no ace. And of course, he couldn’t handle New York.
It’s nice to see the Yankee front office finally exercise some patience, and I have every confidence that regardless of what happens this season, it will continue to do so. And that gives me more hope this season than any on-the-field performance.
correct me if I’m wrong wasn’t Ruth born in Baltimore ?
The Yankee 2008 bullpen is not a zero sum game between Joba and Farns in the 8th inning. There are other options now and there will be more and better options later.
What stellar starters are going to be turning the game over to Joba in the 8th every night?
“^^If the Yanks are in the playoffs and they’re leading 6-5 after the end of the 7th inning at Yankee Stadium, you mean to tell me that you want to put in Kyle Farnsworth during the 8th??”
No. I don’t like Farnsworth. But you don’t need Joba. If we don’t have a single non-Joba non-Mo that can hold a 1 run lead, we’re screwed, pure and simple. You also need a decent SP to get you TO the 7th inning with the lead.
“^^HUH??????????? If he’s a bullpen guy this year, why can’t he become a starter next year?? Why is he stuck in the bullpen for the next three years because he’s a setup man this year? Pitchers are capable of going from starting to relieving (or vice versa) in a year. The only thing teams don’t do is make the switch again.”
It’s innings. You don’t go from 70 innings this year to 200 innings this year – that’s a recipe for career ending arm injuries.
The Yankees have innings limits for all of their young pitchers: Last year’s innings + 30. That is a solid, slow, consistent way to ramp up innings for future full-time pitchers. If you leave Joba in the bullpen all year, he gets 70 innings if he’s used heavily. Tell me how he’s going to go from 70 to 200?
Anyone else hear that Cashman is doing the same thing with Farnsworth that he did with Vizcaino? Holding on to him hoping that Elias tags him as a Type B player, so he gets a compensation pick?
The most discouraging loss of the year was blowing 2 4 run leads in Baltimore.
That hadn’t happened to a Yankee team since 1939.
That’s discouraging.
Tonight? Poor job by the offense, Pettitte and Farnsworth. The first two the main culprits tonight.
The Joba stuff is simple. He is being trained to be the ace of this rotation. It won’t happen tomorrow or perhaps not even this season.
But, that’s where it going. You don’t waste him in the 8th inning.
They lost tonight because their starting pitcher couldn’t hold THREE leads.
Once Joba is up and running as a starter, he won’t be blowing 3 leads in a game.
If that takes time, so be it.
The move is about the future as much as it is about the present.
Unless of course you think this is a good starting rotation.
If you think it is, let’s just agree to disagree.
If we had a better rotation we wouldn’t need to transition Joba to the rotation til next year. But what do you expect from an organization that had Mussina pegged as the #3 starter?
Jeter does seem to be coming around. That’s a good thing.
So tomorrow-Joba+Giese?
What is it with this guy and Farnsworth? What is it going to take to get him to realize that Farnsworth is, at best, a mop up guy. How many more games are we going to have to lose for Girardi to realize his “buddy” from the ole days is not a set up guy?
I don’t get it, if I’m the manager and my future job status is on the line I certainly don’t take chances with experiments when I am already losing enough games to get the bosses attention that something isn’t right.
“I just hope people also realize that leaving him in the pen would be one of the biggest wastes ever.”
Sunny, and I can deal with that also. The night the announcement was made that Joba was going to start to stretch out to be in the rotation, someone immediately said that it would just be a matter of time that some of the same people who wanted Joba in the rotation would be crying about our late relief – or absence therefore.
And sure as shootin.
Look I can understand the value of having Joba in the rotation. But I am also aware enough to know that there were going to be growing pains in the process. And they’re here. Hopefully in time we’ll be able to overcome them and figure something out. But you don’t take a huge piece of a puzzle away and put it somewhere else and end up with the picture you had before. So it is going to take some trial and error until we find the right pieces to get the puzzle back to the picture we like!
GO YANKEES!!!
sooo…did we turn any DP’s tonight? haha
“Jonah,
If not for meddling George Steinbrenner, the 2008 New York Yankees would have a right-handed ace in his prime fronting this rotation.
His name is Javier Vazquez, and a horde of impatient New Yorkers and George Steinbrenner decreed that an aging Randy Johnson was the solution to Javy’s first season in the AL.
But hey, 77 strikeouts in 78 2/3 innings, with 17 walks, and an ERA of 3.43…no, that’s no ace. And of course, he couldn’t handle New York.
It’s nice to see the Yankee front office finally exercise some patience, and I have every confidence that regardless of what happens this season, it will continue to do so. And that gives me more hope this season than any on-the-field performance.”
Totally agreed. Hated the trade when it happened, but that’s the type of move that the OMG we need Santana folks love.
I forgot it’s Halladay tomorrow. Oh dear
“^^HUH??????????? If he’s a bullpen guy this year, why can’t he become a starter next year?? Why is he stuck in the bullpen for the next three years because he’s a setup man this year? Pitchers are capable of going from starting to relieving (or vice versa) in a year. The only thing teams don’t do is make the switch again.”
But they’d only ever planned to have Joba in the bullpen at the beginning of the year, because of his innings limits. His are a lot more extreme than IPK’s and Phil’s.
You keep him in the bullpen for the rest of this year and he doesn’t get enough innings to be able to progress to the next level of innings thrown for next year and build up to eventually being able to throw 200+ innings a season. Isn’t it just retarding his development as a starter and his value to the team for the long term?
JMO but, I would Edwar a shot at 8th inning duties.
By the All Star Break, I think it will be Mark Melancon’s job.
Right now though, I’d give Edwar a shot. He’s earned it and I’m intrigued to see if he can run with the opportunity.
He’s one of few guys out there with swing and miss stuff right now.
“The trouble is there are plenty of guys out there in the bullpen now and the minors who MIGHT be able to contribute and fill that void a bit, but they haven’t been given a chance to thus far.”
This is the major issue with the pen right now.
It’s hard to believe that Farnsworth keeps getting chance after chance after chance.
If you don’t give other players an opportunity to fill a role it is impossible for them to fill it.
This was supposedly what Girardi was going to do this year.
Instead he’s been very conservative and stuck with the veteran he’s caught in the past and “knows.”
How do we know that trading Vazquez was George’s call? Cashman is the GM. He takes the brunt for every call. If he really wanted to he could have fended George off like Stick Michael did. Cash can’t have it both ways. He can’t take credit for the good and pass the bad off on Tampa.
it is surreal that the New York Yankees are 7 games behind the Tampa Rays.
this is the first time ever i’ve looked at the Devil Rays schedule to see who they were playing. well, hopefully thye’ll kill the Red Sox this week and then cool off.
SJ I completely agree with your last post. and oh yea FIRE CASHMAN!
SJ44…. NICE CALL!!!!!
Why do V, Angel and SJ44 all post right in a row everytime and always agree with each other?? Interesting. Trolling…
“The fact that The Twins have rebuilt their rotation and eveyone other than Livan is under 26 years old…..So far they’re holding their own…”
.. and they’re doing it on a 60 million dollar payroll.
i said earlier in the year if cashman were really interested in how to develop pitchers he’d check out how the twins do it.
and hernandez is essential on this team because he provides innings every fifth day. he’s ironically part of the youth plan. the plan is he throws innings that rookies can’t and don’t.
“But they’d only ever planned to have Joba in the bullpen at the beginning of the year, because of his innings limits. His are a lot more extreme than IPK’s and Phil’s.
You keep him in the bullpen for the rest of this year and he doesn’t get enough innings to be able to progress to the next level of innings thrown for next year and build up to eventually being able to throw 200+ innings a season. Isn’t it just retarding his development as a starter and his value to the team for the long term?”
Um, I agree with you
I was responding to someone else.
If anyone doesn’t think this team is rebuilding, just can’t read between the lines and see what is going on.
The 2008/2009 years were the years to do it, last year at the Stadium and first at the New Stadium, meaning the seats would be full no matter how the team on the field performed.
The Yankees will never admit to it publicly, but why do you think Santana is in Queens.
Regarding Cashman, he has only had full control of the baseball ops, since 2005 and if you read any minor league/prospect publications, you can see what he has done through the draft and Latin American signings.
If you look back at the late 90’s and early 2000’s, the Yankees disregarded the minor leagues and I will not put that on Cashman.
As for everyone who wants to throw Pavano/Vasques/Conteras or any other pitcher Cash has brought in, tell me what else he could have done without any youth coming up through the system, and I’m pretty sure there were many other teams that wanted each of those players…they just didn’t work out and you learn from them.
Look at what the Yankees are doing, pumping a ton of money into the draft and Latin America and IMO will be seeing a ton of results in the years to come, which Cashman should get most of credit for.
“By the All Star Break, I think it will be Mark Melancon’s job.”
I think that would be a mistake. Too soon.
What are the options.Ohlendorffs 6ERa or Edwar homerun problem.
Shelly Duncan,Edwar and Ohlendorff are three players with great AAA numbers until they get up here.
I would take Wang,Rasner and Pettitte 6 innings stuff and Joba pitching in the 7th and 8th then Joba pitching 6 innings and giving the ball to LaTroy and Fransworth.
Congratulations to your 2008-2009 AL East Division Champions the Tampa Bay Rays!!!
Wow, Ortiz out for awhile gives the Yankees a chance. but they have to start playing significantly better. They have a favorable schedule the next two months but if they keep playing like tonight nothing will help.
This goes back an hour or so, but Melancon will not be the first one up. He still is building arm strength. I think you first see Cox and then maybe Robertson (if he starts to show more control) before Melancon.
Humberto Sanchez is going to start throwing live BP soon and is scheduled to go to the Gulf Coast league at the end of the month. He still has a lot of recovering to do, but may help at the end of the year.
“The night the announcement was made that Joba was going to start to stretch out to be in the rotation, someone immediately said that it would just be a matter of time that some of the same people who wanted Joba in the rotation would be crying about our late relief – or absence therefore.”
Well, I wanted Joba in the rotation. The late relief is upsetting, but honestly not surprising and I am sure there will be another game or two..or hell even more like this.
There will be bumps in the road, but Joba going into the rotation now is for the best.
The bullpen will work itself out. It might take a while, but I do think they will figure something out. I don’t think one can include Farnsworth into that equation though anymore. But this team does have some other options.
What would be the problem with getting Joba 130 innings in the pen this year? Like Rivera in 96?? He can’t do 3 inning stints?
He’s 22 and on an innings limit anyway. You can’t transition 3 starters under 24 and expect to contend. What a joke.
This is Cashmans fault for not getting a quality #3 in here.
“Why do V, Angel and SJ44 all post right in a row everytime and always agree with each other?? Interesting. Trolling…”
Wow, your first post of the night.
I’m sure this is the only name you’ve used tonight, eh ‘Will’?
Doesn’t this team feel like a plane that keeps trying to take off?
I feel like we see hints of greatness, but then something knocks it off course.
I didn’t like brining Andy out there in the 7th. The more opponents see him in an outing, the better they hit off of him.
Should have gone Edwar/Farnsworth. Or vice versa.
SJ – Why is it that Melancon is pitching every 3 days or so and throwing 3 innings? Is that just to build up his arm streght because right now he cant throw back to back days?
Some people here need to calm down. First of all, how many times are people seriously going to go to the “Joba needs to be in the 8th” argument? When you use that argument in a game like this it’s borderline fraudulent. You handed 3 leads to your number 2 starter and he couldn’t manage to hold 1 of them. The ONLY time you “Joba in the bullpen” fans should be able to use that argument is when the Yankees starter goes 7 innings and gives up 1 or 2 runs, hands a 1 run lead to the bullpen, and it’s blown in the 8th. But don’t let Andy Pettitte off the hook in a game where he mails it in. The bottom line is Andy Pettitte needs to pitch much better than that.
“Cashman is the GM. He takes the brunt for every call. If he really wanted to he could have fended George off like Stick Michael did.”
You don’t “fend off George” if he wants something. When he has his mind made up that he wants a certain player (Randy Johnson is the latest example) there is no one who can talk him out of it.
Let’s put that kind of pressure on Melancon don’t we?? A guy who had what? 6 innings of pro ball coming into this year??
But yea lets make him in the second half savior.
I was surprised to see Farnsworth pitching the 8th given the situation. Seems like based on the numbers that should have been Edwar in there tonight. Girardi reminds me of the stubborn kid trying to fit the round peg into the square hole. Eventually he’ll move on.
“What are the options.Ohlendorffs 6ERa or Edwar homerun problems”
What homerun problems? He’s allowed one run this year!
The Rick -
Thank you!
I didn’t post here last year but have heard other people saying that certain posters predicted doom and gloom last season and got it wrong.
So that keeps me hopeful that they are still getting it wrong.
GO YANKEES!
“You don’t “fend off George†if he wants something. When he has his mind made up that he wants a certain player (Randy Johnson is the latest example) there is no one who can talk him out of it.”
Well, they fended George off of Andy when George wanted him gone all the time didn’t they???
The case against Johnson would have been pretty easy to make at the time considering he was 95 years old and in the NL.
Don’t blame George for all the bad moves and give Cashman all the credit for the few good ones he’s made.
“Instead he’s been very conservative and stuck with the veteran he’s caught in the past and “knows.—
Yeah it was frustrating to see Farnworth come in and THEN send Edwar in to get the final out once Farnsworth had made a mess and the winning run had already crossed the plate.
Edwar has really shown improvement this year, and has shown that improvement over enough innings that I am really finding it hard to believe that Farnsworth was the first choice in that particular game situation. Especially given how he’s looked lately.
Is there a single person in here who supported moving Joba into the rotation who now thinks that it’s a mistake because you’re crying about the bullpen? Does such an animal exist in LuHud Land?
So how many innings will Joba last tomorrow? 2? 2.1? or 3?
It hurts so much to see this team [Yankees] lose.
You got it, trisha. Those of us that were here last year and dealt with all the doom and gloomers know how it is. Guys like SJ44 started saying rebuild, tear it down, they stink, blah blah back in May and they had egg on their faces come August.
So don’t let them kill that optimism. Most of us here are optimists and don’t forget recent history.
Sj44, is Viz out for the WHOLE YEAR? I was under the impression he could return after the All-Star break if he deferred the surgery.
It’s also not a foregone conclusion that he would have strained the elbow if the Yankees had signed him– the fallacy of the pre-determined outcome.
But I get your general point. I’m so incense about tonight’s loss, I want to pull out my hair.
True, the Yankees, Cano, in particular, didn’t capitalize on scoring opportunities but the Twins bullpen stymied the Yankees the past four days in those situations. They deserve some credit too.
The Yankess have a 3-4 record on a road-trip they should have gone 5-2 on b/c this bullpen is a disaster AGAIN. The same disaster it was last year at this time. (They had one good game, Saturday night.) I don’t know what’s worse the personnel or Girardi’s management of it.
Melancon, Cox, Robertson, SAVE US. Save my scalp. I’m going to go bald.
jesus Oli Perez WTF
YES STOP INTERVIEWING PSYCHO FARNS!!! He makes me sick!!!?!?!?!!! With his BS I threw my pitches, I didn’t make a mistake they just hit the pitches..
lol, Now I’m the same person as SJ and/or V?
Ridiculous.
People just get in touch with reality…Joba, Hughes are going to be a out of sight 1 & 2 starters for many years…..Wang, Kennedy rounding out 3 and 5 ….As for Melanchon, it’s coming soon……Forget about Santana for Christ sake……
Man, my fantasy day (pitching) is getting even worse….
Pettitte blows three leads, 5 runs in 7 innings. Laffey blows an 8-3 lead, gives up 8 runs in 5 innings. R. Soriano has a lead that Smoltz blows. Oliver Perez has allowed 6 runs in 1/3 of an inning…..
“Well, I wanted Joba in the rotation. The late relief is upsetting, but honestly not surprising and I am sure there will be another game or two..or hell even more like this.
There will be bumps in the road, but Joba going into the rotation now is for the best.
The bullpen will work itself out. It might take a while, but I do think they will figure something out. I don’t think one can include Farnsworth into that equation though anymore. But this team does have some other options.
S.A., I totally agree with this post. That’s why I don’t tend to spin out of control when things happen that should be understandable.
Things will shake out.
Patience and understanding is a virtue.
They’re men, not machines.
“Edwar homerun problem.”
Edwar now has a homerun problem? LOL
How many has he given up so far his year? 8? 10? 20? Because that would be a problem….
Its to build up arm strength. Its how they rehab relief pitchers coming off TJ surgery.
Its different than the way they rehab starters.
By doing it this way, they find it a more effective way of building up arm strength.
Melancon’s velocity has maintained during these longer stint. Which is a great sign.
His curveball is back to being nasty and so far he has had zero setbacks.
Looking at his innings, he seems to be on track for a Mid-Late July arrival in NY.
Barring setbacks, of course.
Edwar has given up ONE run this year and he now has a “HR problem”.
Newsflash, no relief pitcher not named Mariano Rivera, is going to be perfect. Overall, Edwar has not been good, he’s been great.
He sure as hell has pitched better than Farnsworth. He’s pitched better than Joba in the ‘pen so far this year.
If I have two choices today for the 8th inning, Ramirez and Farnsworth, I choose Edwar every time.
Vader, Outstanding post.
Why would the Sox lose the division because Ortiz goes down? They are what you call a good team and they can survive the loss of any player. They’ve lost Lowell and survived. Lugo is the worst SS in the league and they survive. Okajima has lost his magic and the the pen besides Papelbon stinks and they survive. Schilling is hurt and they survive. And Ortiz hasn’t hit and they keep winning.
lets go Jonathan Sanchez !
“Why would the Sox lose the division because Ortiz goes down? They are what you call a good team and they can survive the loss of any player.”
not him..
Hey let’s hope the Rays don’t pick this time of the season to cool off!
What will the Edwar fan club think when he gives up a lead in the 8th tomorrow???
How about a starting pitcher goes out there and goes 9 and shuts a team out?
Asking too much?
“Well, they fended George off of Andy when George wanted him gone all the time didn’t they???”
I have no idea what this means, but since I live on the west coast I might have missed something.
“The case against Johnson would have been pretty easy to make at the time considering he was 95 years old and in the NL.”
Exactly my point, it was THE BOSS who wanted the guy, and he got his man.
“Forget about Santana for Christ sake……”
If only….
Actually, I think they should have traded for Santana and made him the 8th inning guy…
“Is there a single person in here who supported moving Joba into the rotation who now thinks that it’s a mistake because you’re crying about the bullpen? Does such an animal exist in LuHud Land?”
Not me. I understood the ramification of making him a starter was that it was going to leave a void in the bullpen. However, I did think that there were enough guys out there and in the minors, that we wouldn’t be seeing Farnsworth out there in high leverage situations constantly either. Especially when he’d shown he wasn’t up to it consistently.
Damn, Joe Nathan is good.
Bootsy, I’m sorry, if the Red Sox are loosing Ortiz for an extended period of time then they aren’t going to be able to contend. He’s such a huge part of that lineup. Then take away their second starter Dice-K for an extended period of time? No way.
Trisha,
Keep taking shots. Just don’t be so coy about it.
I offered you a chance to talk baseball. Instead, you cherrypicked the posts and decided to take veiled shots at me.
Don’t be a coward about it, just go full bore.
Now that I know you have no interest in discussing baseball, just taking shots at folks who won’t cheerlead with you, I’ll stop wasting my time with you.
Just don’t keep taking shots at me. Its unnecessary and its a waste of time.
You will never control what I write on this blog.
Once you truly understand that, we can co-exist quite peacefully.
I really don’t understand how CashWalmart still has a job. He hasn’t signed a good starting pitcher since Mussina, hasn’t gotten a good pitcher for the bullpen is about 5 years, and can’t build a bench to save his live. The only thing he knows how to do is hand $$$$$ to hitters and useless people. His time is up!!! He makes mistake after mistake…after mistake
anyone think trading giambi before the deadline is looking like a good idea now that hes starting to hit the ball?
I’ve had enough of Farnsworth already. Bring up Cox, or Melancon, insert them into the 8th and get it over with. Farns can pitch the sixth. Dump Veras, too. Straightest fastball I’ve seen.
At least the Red Sux lost.
Re fantasy implications of Big Papi, I picked up Brandon Moss, I think he’ll be called up, although not sure how much he’ll play.
Bootsy
“and they keep winning.”
Timing is everything. Tonight may not have been the best time for writing that.
We can’t lose games like this if we want to win the division. Especially if the Sox lose a little with Ortiz and Dice K out and the Rays coming back to earth on the road.
Bootsy – The Sox are a good team, but they will have issues on offense if Ortiz is out for an extended period of time – same as last year.
Their starting pitching has been good, but Okajima is on the DL, Beckett has not been nearly as good as last year, and we will see how Colon holds up. Relief pitching outside of Papelbon has been very suspect and Okajima got lit up tonight (the league is catching up to him).
They will have to field a lineup with Crisp, Lugo, Varitek, Drew and Casey on many nights at they will have their slumps. If you can pitch around Manny they are a much easier team to beat. This series with the Rays will be interesting to watch.
Watch out for Toronto who has been very hot and has tremendous pitching.
Because Steinbrenner had wanted Randy Johnson for years, and the Tampa faction was still strong whispering in Steinbrenner’s ears after the 2004 off-season.
But I’m not having it both ways; you called Vazquez one of Cashman’s biggest mistakes, and yet here he is, four years later, living up to his billing (and the potential has always been there, if you look at his peripherals–they have always been fantastic, and he has never been on the DL in his career). Vazquez in the 2003 off-season was what Beckett was in the 2005 off-season, but no one gave him a chance, even after he put together a fantastic first-half in his first go-around in the AL East (more than can be said for Beckett, who had a pretty terrible two-halves in his first go-around in the AL East).
There is plenty of circumstantial evidence suggesting that George wanted Randy Johnson at all costs after the 2004 ALCS meltdown, and as a result of that, there was NO chance of arguing otherwise. Johnson was coming off a season where he threw a perfect game, and the shrills were predicting a 25-win season if the Yankees acquired him.
There are some moves which you can very, very easily trace back to George, and were clearly not Cashman’s all. Gary Sheffield is a classic example; not only has Cashman gone on the record saying he wanted Vlad Guerrero, but Steinbrenner arranged to have that contract negotiated personally. Likewise David Wells’ second go-around (in fairness, that worked pretty well for the Yankees, so you do take the good with the bad). Jason Giambi’s contract is another example, as is Derek Jeter’s contract (the year before Jeter signed that mammoth contract, Cashman was pushing for one that would have been far more affordable and team-friendly, but George decreed contract discussions be postponed another year).
I’m not saying that Steinbrenner never did any good for the Yankees; his willingness to front the money that gives the Yankees such a financial advantage is huge, but only if it’s placed in the hands of capable baseball executives who can do their jobs. That has only begun happening since Cashman finally gained full control of baseball ops, and we’re seeing the results of that harvest. Not in on-the-field performance right now; it’s not like Cashman was working tabula rasa, the Yankees were in a pretty big hole in terms of roster inflexibility and farm system dearth when he finally took over.
The Yankees haven’t missed the playoffs since the wild card era began in 1995; the Red Sox were bounced from the ALDS and missed the playoffs between winning two World Series. If the Yankees miss the playoffs this year, it won’t be the end of the world, and it won’t mean that Brian Cashman is a failure as Yankees General Manager.
GO YANKEES!
Trisha – you know I agree and appreciate your optimism.
See you tomorrow!
Jeff NJ June 2nd, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Re fantasy implications of Big Papi, I picked up Brandon Moss, I think he’ll be called up, although not sure how much he’ll play.
One thing no one cares about. Your fantasy teams. The other? Talking about your poker games.
Well it’d be nice to sit back and wait for Joba’s start by thinking about a nice Yankees win…
But I guess hoping for a Yankees win tomorrow will have to do for the next 20 hours or so.
Toronto can’t hit a lick. They don’t concern me.
Our lineup without A-Rod, Posada and Jeter is better than there everyday lineup.
Gets hard to shutout teams every night like Toronto’s starters have to do. And its a matter of time before Ryan goes down again. Elbow surgery is not easy to come back from.
Mark in CT, GREAT point. I said in the beginning of the season the Red Sox had their chance to put away the Yankees when the Yankees were plagued with tons of injuries. They couldn’t do it. This is the stretch when the Yankees need to put away the Red Sox.
I’m not really worried, I think they can do it. Andy Pettitte needs to pitch better, and they need that 8th inning guy.
“this bullpen is a disaster AGAIN. The same disaster it was last year at this time. ”
It’s a better pen. You’re forgetting how bad it was last year – Proctor was awful, Bruney terrible, Farnsworth…, and Vizcaino was erratic. They didn’t even have guys who could throw strikes. And they were throwing a ton of innings.
But if you keep using Farnsworth in big spots – then I agree with you its no better than last year.
Because there is no “new Kyle.” He’s the same as last year and the innings he pitches will produce the same exact results.
Well there is a great hockey game going on lol.
Though Farnsworth was going to pop Kim JOnes if she continued on the line of questioning she was going.
Are you tired – too much workload
Do you have more pressure becuase of JOba leaving
Were your pitches right location
What were you doing wih Young
Was it pitch selection or location
Yes I know that they need to answer these question but I would not have the patience to do it without losing my temper.
Andy pretty much said it all as far as I can tell he is disgusted and this loss is on him.
Once again I will say you cannot say(although I am sure we will hear it tomorrow all day on the radio) this game was lost because of the8th inning itcame down to Andy blowing the lead 3 times not the fact that JOba was not in the BP.
Finally for the night no one has mentioned what MLB is doing at the draft this year in terms ofhonoring the Negro League and each team ceremoniously drafting a player who played in the Negro League an is still alive to honor the fact that they did not get a chance to play in mlb. It really is a great thing and gives us all a chance to learn more about that time period. Fore more info see link below
http://www.bizofbaseball.com/i.....p;Itemid=1
“YES STOP INTERVIEWING PSYCHO FARNS!!! He makes me sick!!!?!?!?!!! With his BS I threw my pitches, I didn’t make a mistake they just hit the pitches..”
Captain,
I have been saying for weeks now that Farnsworth is a stubborn hardhead who won’t listen to coaches who try to make him better. Remember when he walked all over the mound to avoid Posada? He still pitches the same way he did with the Cubs, straight fastball right down the middle, with the same results…”See, ya!”
Someone in the Yankee brass is going to have to have a meeting with Girardi and tell him enough with Farnsworth in crucial situations.
Kyle is Kyle. I just hope that one of these days Girardi comes to the conclusion that Kyle has been a failed experiment and moves on. Girardi said that he’d give Kyle a shot at the 8th inning. Has he seen enough?
Phoenix you can’t be serious. Cashman has had 200+ mill and all the resources you need and a winning team to sell for a decade and what has he done with it? The system was bad? That’s because he didn’t do anything about it! What free agents has he brought in that were any good?? What trades has he made??
I’d like to see some other GM get a shot with these resources that Cashman now doesn’t want to use. You really trust Cashman to spend the 90 mill coming off the books?? The way he evaluates pitchers???
“Is there a single person in here who supported moving Joba into the rotation who now thinks that it’s a mistake because you’re crying about the bullpen? Does such an animal exist in LuHud Land?”
I don’t think that’s the point here. It’s that people who wanted Joba in the rotation really should have had enough baseball awareness that that was going to leave some kind of void and therefore should have been prepared for some fallout. And they of all should be the Yankee stalwarts at this point and actually helping out those who could forsee there was a potential problem!
Instead some of them are crying more loudly than the others. I could have lived with Joba staying in the pen but since he didn’t I am not going to fly into a rage every time someone can’t hold the 8th! Cripes, even I saw that coming!!!
joba is not ready for a start tomorrow unless somehow june 3rd is a spring training game.
he hasn’t thrown more than two innings.
he hasn’t thrown more than 45 pitches.
not as dumb as rushing hughes last year, but close.
joba is good enough to survive the yankees ’stretching ” him out, but the yankees are doing him no favor by starting him tomorrow when he’ll be lucky to go 4 innings.
he needs at least another week or so.
Farnsworth was doing great in the less pressurized 7th inning. Why the need to change that routine up?? Someone else could have stepped up in the 8th with Joba going to the rotation.
But not having a lefty out there is sinful.
Actually, until this road trip, the bullpen, including Kyle, had been doing well.
I will be looking forward to seeing how Girardi handles this going forward.
Does anyone remember Cashman’s reaction when the Yankees lost in the first round to Detroit? He was devastated; shocked. I remember listening to an interview with him on the radio shortly afterwards. He said he had never doubted that that team would go to and win the World Series. That was the team that Leyland described as “Murderers Row and then Cano.”
I believe that that is when Cashman saw that the team had to be remade. No more Randy Johnsons. It was, I think, an easy sell to George, et al. At the beginning of that season, I think Cashman was going to re-sign Gary Sheffield. After that collapse, i think he realized that they needed to start getting younger and more athletic and trading Sheffield for prospects was a good start.
So, rebuilding has been quietly going on for a while now. And yet the Yankees strive to contend for the playoffs. I think in spite of the poor start to this season, they will be in this thing yet. But I think that’s more because of the way the other teams are playing, a gift, so to speak, from the rest of the division. With the exception of Tampa Bay – no gifts there.
Gayle – Joe Girardi looked and sounded disgusted as well. When they asked him about Andy’s pitch selection he said that is discussed in private not with the media. He was obviously annoyed.
CB, I think you hit the nail on the head. If the Yankees had gotten Santana for the pen, then Joba could more easily transition to being a starter, without having to worry about the bullpen. This is clearly all on Cashman!!
The Suxs will do fine on most night because they have good pitching and know how to situational hit. But Manny will definitey be walked and pitched around almost every time up…especially if there is men on base. Except if Mussina is pitching ofcourse.
Thanks Fran! You definitely are my soul sister here. I really appreciate your support and optimism.
“I’m not saying that Steinbrenner never did any good for the Yankees; his willingness to front the money that gives the Yankees such a financial advantage is huge, but only if it’s placed in the hands of capable baseball executives who can do their jobs. That has only begun happening since Cashman finally gained full control of baseball ops, and we’re seeing the results of that harvest.”
Fallen Phoenix, you and I are on the exact same wavelength. Terrific post!
If Cashman had gotten some real starters Joba wouldn’t have to move to the rotation til next year and our biggest strength would still be intact.
But Mussina, Hughes, Kennedy Igawa have all been real good.
Puke.
Cashman staked his job on those two kids in particular. He is going to lose his job because of them.
“joba is not ready for a start tomorrow unless somehow june 3rd is a spring training game.”
It’s a transition game. That’s it. He’ll go as long as he can. But it’s not going to put him at risk.
It will force the team to scramble in the pen but that’s part of the process.
If they didn’t give him this start and sent him to the minors they would just lose out on 4-5 innings of his pitching.
I’ve never posted before, but I enjoy scanning the comments for the informed insights of SJ, CB, Randy 1, Hmm and other Pete Abe all-stars. I must say that I really don’t get the animus towards SJ. The man is clearly an astute analyst of the game, who calls ‘em like he sees ‘em in good times and bad. I get the feeling he’d like nothing more than a no-worries season. Obviously its not the year for that. My initiation to Yankee fandom came with heartbreak in 1955 courtesy of Johnny “the kid” Podres, so I’ve always been a pinstriped realist. There’s still a lot of season to go. Take heart — the Joba Era begins tomorrow!
They might as well stretch Joba out here. At least the big club can get the benefit of whatever innings he can give them tomorrow. Besides, who else would you like to see start tomorrow? Igawa? That would be a treat for the bullpen!
Since Cashman gained “full control” in 2005 what pitchers or hitters has he brought in??
Anyone good? Abreu trade? Ok. What else? Anything? God knows Farnsworth, Igawa, and Hawkins have bombed.
Jaret Wright bombed. Anything??
Any other trades? Betemit?? Terrible and positionless. Not one guy has panned out.
Hank should be looking at resumes as we speak. Paging Byrnes in Arizona…
I can’t believe that people are actually complaining that Joba is probably only going to give the Yankees 4 innings tomorrow. What would you people rather see? Kei Igawa get absolutley abused for 4 innings or Joba hopefully give you 4 quality innings? You act like they’re skipping Wang or someone for Joba to start…
“Instead some of them are crying more loudly than the others. I could have lived with Joba staying in the pen but since he didn’t I am not going to fly into a rage every time someone can’t hold the 8th! Cripes, even I saw that coming!!!”
Trisha,
This loss was on the offense and Andy Pettitte, not the eigth inning.
Even Pete A. agrees
UPDATE, 9:30 p.m.: As awful as the offense has been, this is on Pettitte. The Yankees have given him leads of 2-0, 4-2 and 5-4 and he couldn’t hold any of them.
SJ44 has a new name. Ricardo-7.
“If Cashman had gotten some real starters Joba wouldn’t have to move to the rotation til next year and our biggest strength would still be intact.
But Mussina, Hughes, Kennedy Igawa have all been real good.
Puke.
Cashman staked his job on those two kids in particular. He is going to lose his job because of them.”
We get it Jonah (and whatever other names you’ve used in the past). You don’t like Cashman. Saying so 50 different times with different words isn’t going to drive your point across any more strongly.
I am glad the Yankees did not trade for Santana, and I really believe that contract will be an albatross for the Mets by the time it’s done. The Sox could have had him for a similar package as the Mets (Ellsbury instead of Gomez), and chose not to.
With this Ortiz injury, why aren’t we hearing the speculation start up about him and roids? He has a lot of the classic breaking down that are caused by using the juice. Knees, ligaments, heart palpitations. Add to that the size he has grown to, and the jacking up of his HR. I know that its said it was the Twins that made him hit for less power, but come on.
“Since Cashman gained “full control†in 2005 what pitchers or hitters has he brought in??
Anyone good? Abreu trade? Ok. What else? Anything? God knows Farnsworth, Igawa, and Hawkins have bombed.
Jaret Wright bombed. Anything??
Any other trades? Betemit?? Terrible and positionless. Not one guy has panned out.
Hank should be looking at resumes as we speak. Paging Byrnes in Arizona…”
Who was available that Cashman ‘missed’ on?
What happened to Ortiz tonight?
can anyone answer this question…how is it that this team has not been able to develop one decent lefty for the pen since who knows when…Stanton and Graham Lloyd the last 2 I remember we had and they were obtained by trade/free agency…..I was thinking of this as Reyes was facing Giambi, Matsui, and Cano all in a row…..I know we traded Damaso Marte who was that for again????
“With this Ortiz injury, why aren’t we hearing the speculation start up about him and roids? He has a lot of the classic breaking down that are caused by using the juice. Knees, ligaments, heart palpitations. Add to that the size he has grown to, and the jacking up of his HR.”
because it’s too easy
If the Yanks are going to be a very inconsistent team that wins 85 then fine but atleast give someone else a chance in the 8th inning. I can not watch Farns. continue to get tattooed and then act in the post game like it is not a big deal. It seems like he blows a game atleast once a week. Just bring up Cox and lets see what he can do. But please do not continue to send the psycho out there. As soon as I see him warming up I say ohh the games over or how many runs is he going to give up today. Girardi just face the truth he is a disaster.
“We get it Jonah (and whatever other names you’ve used in the past). You don’t like Cashman. Saying so 50 different times with different words isn’t going to drive your point across any more strongly.”
I’ll say anything I want “V” (nice anonymous name) You can read it or not. I don’t care. This ain’t a cheerleader blog as someone said earlier and I don’t care if you don’t like what I say. You have posted nothing of substance besides copying and pasting others thoughts. So leave the talking to people with something to say.
Enrique Wilson
“Anyone good? Abreu trade? Ok. What else? Anything?”
Jose Molina was a very good trade acquisition. Luis Vizcaino last year for a breaking down, unhappy Randy Johnson was a another terrific trade. Getting Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and Anthony Claggett was another good one given that Sheffield would have otherwise left for nothing.
So along with Abreu, that’s 4 good trades over the past 2 years (that is since he got control of the baseball operations).
In fact, what bad trades has he made since he gained control over the team?
So people who wanted Joba in the rotation don’t have baseball awareness? No one who wanted Joba in the rotation realized that he would leave a void in the bullpen? These people aren’t being stalwart enough?
I don’t even know what that means.
DFox – you are so right. I could not a agree with you more.
“I am glad the Yankees did not trade for Santana, and I really believe that contract will be an albatross for the Mets by the time it’s done. The Sox could have had him for a similar package as the Mets (Ellsbury instead of Gomez), and chose not to.”
I’ m with ya V, but I will go on record as saying that ARod’s contract with us will be just as big an albartoss.
V is a cheerleader for the great work Cashman has done. Ok, V the anonymous I’ll bite and play along.
What move has worked out that he has done since 2005 to improve this team?
Find me that lefty in the pen.
Find me a starting pitcher.
Maybe a bench player.
Who has he taken a chance on that has done better than expected?
Anyone???
So it then appears that Joba’s spot in the rotation will follow Petitte’s turn….I’m with with Randy I on Joba getting an extra week to transition into the rotation….But I suspect he’ll be capped at 40/ 45 pitches….Dress rehearsal of sorts…..Just Wish Hughes were coming back soon…Is August the approx date ????
“I’ll say anything I want “V†(nice anonymous name) You can read it or not. I don’t care. This ain’t a cheerleader blog as someone said earlier and I don’t care if you don’t like what I say. You have posted nothing of substance besides copying and pasting others thoughts. So leave the talking to people with something to say.”
Ah, it’s the guy who claims I copy/paste. Seen this, done that. Go away.
Girardi – We had a discussion about Ortiz and PEDs when he started the year off so poorly. I am on board and think he has to be included in the conversation. He has had many of the same degenerative injuries since the league started testing, he is just gigantic, the Twins are who are very astute judges of talent got rid of him, he becomes a beast a bit late in his career, his power numbers have dropped precipitously in the last couple of years.
In this era he has to be on the “list.”
RBI triple for Carlos Zambrano, lol.
Signing a field player to a long contract isn’t anywhere near as risky as it is a pitcher. A-Rod is also a player who has a great chance for greatness and can move into the DH role as his fielding depreciates. He will also bring in money as he nears the HR record. A pitcher who can’t pitch anymore won’t be able to be put anywhere.
Joba belongs in the rotation. That really shouldn’t be an argument. Would the Red Sox put Beckett in the rotation? Would Toronto put Halladay? Of course not. It would be silly to even suggest it.
Joba has been graded by scouts to be a front of the rotation starter. Whether he will or not remains to be seen. But for the future success of this team, we’ve got to find out.
The bullpen will eventually shake itself out because Cox, Robertson and/or Melancon will be coming up either this year or next year.
Of course, Farnsworth is not the answer. No one should have any confidence in him, because the coaching staff and the management didn’t have any confidence in him. That’s why Joba was rushed through the system last year.
Farnsworth has always sucked, and he was a terrible signing. If Cashman is fired (and I don’t believe he should be) the Farnsworth signing will be on his epitaph.
We have no one on our roster to REASONABLY fill the 8th inning role. Edwar just does not have the assortment of pitches.
The Yankees, in too many instances over the past several years, have been into “”Let’s throw something against the wall and see if it sticks” mode. This is the crux of the problem.
The team waited too long to build up its farm system, and now this is what you get. A transitional year.
I’m OK with that. But it’s time to bring up the bullpen of the future and let them get their feet wet now.
Yikes! Yanks left 25 men on base tonight. 25!!!! Every batter left at least one on.
“It’s a transition game. That’s it.”
ok,then i’d like to see him go three innings and maybe 55 pitches and be told that right from the beginning.
i don’t even care if that impacts winning the game. the rest of this year is all about joba. he needs to be handled with kid gloves so he peaks at the end of the year.
no team is going to be good this year. it’s going to be all about who’s strong in the end.
i think that’s one thing we can all agree on.
“Trisha,
This loss was on the offense and Andy Pettitte, not the eigth inning.”
GoYanks,
Certainly I understand that. But the discussion got into the generic 8th inning woes, and that’s where the loss of Joba came into the conversation.
But there are people who are extremely uptight and insecure if anyone has the temerity to suggest that Joba out of the pen has caused a problem (his leaving causing a problem was so foreseeable it isn’t even funny, and that’s not to say that his leaving wasn’t the best decision of the two things they could have done with him!)
But sure I understand that tonight’s game was on Andy and the offense. To say that having Joba in the pen might have made a difference in the outcome isn’t really blasphemy though. Just a statement that might be one of fact.
But it’s all good.
Wang and Cano
anyone got any news on Threets ?
Why would any contract be an albatross to the Yankees? We have survived Pavano and Igawa and Giambi and countless others and it hasn’t done anything to effect the team. In a perfect world obviously you want everyone playing for the min and having all star seasons but that isn’t how the game works. No contract the Yanks have ever given out has ever changed how they operate.
They give Pavano 11 a yr and now they pinch pennies on the best lefty in baseball? I don’t really buy that. I guess we’ll find out in November when Sabathia is a FA.
Jason, I know it gets discussed on forums such as this, but that’s about all. RS fans only defend him and never a hint of any question comes up in the media.
“Anyone???”
Bringing up Wang and Cano when neither was considered a sure fire talent based on their minor league performances.
Bringing Melky back up after his disastrous debut back in 2005.
The Bobby Abrue trade.
Jose Molina.
So that’s at least 5 players acquired since 2005 who are unequivocally good moves.
That’s over 20% of the team.
And that’s without bringing up the resigning of ARod, Posada and Mo this past off season when they were all free agents and free to sign with anyone.
Will K. — lol, I ain’t him. Tough loss all around tonight. But manana –Joba!
randy: absolutely. I believe the AL East is going to be a dogfight all year. You just want to be the last man standing.
V the anon,
Please give us all an original thought you have ahd on this blog. I asked you a simple question before and you can’t even answer. Why even come here if you aren’t going to contribute to the discussion besides trying to cause trouble and name call? Do you even know who Cashman is?
“So people who wanted Joba in the rotation don’t have baseball awareness? No one who wanted Joba in the rotation realized that he would leave a void in the bullpen? These people aren’t being stalwart enough?
I don’t even know what that means.”
Why doesn’t that surprise me. Guess it will have to remain a mystery in your universe.
trish – you’re a fool. The more you post, the more you prove you know little about baseball. Enough already. Your posts are such drivel…
“ok,then i’d like to see him go three innings and maybe 55 pitches and be told that right from the beginning.”
randy,
it’s very possible that they’ve privately already discussed that with Joba, don’t you think?
But I wouldn’t announce that publicly either. Would you? That just lets the Jays know what they are going to face.
I’m sure they have a pitch limit and an estimated number of innings.
If they didn’t they wouldn’t be bringing up Giese.
They aren’t taking any chances with Joba’s development. They know that he’s the centerpiece for the franchise for years to come.
I really don’t think they’re trying to milk this as a conventional start.
Girardi – I live in Boston and he is a icon. The media and fans love him. Another guy that gets a free pass is Mo Vaughn. I walked passed Mo and Canseco back when both were with the Sox and Canseco was the biggest guy I have ever seen. Mo was about a foot shorter but twice as wide. He was wider than Anthony Mason. Same build, same power, same injuries. I frankly don’t now why over time the Sox get a free pass.
“V the anon,
Please give us all an original thought you have ahd on this blog. I asked you a simple question before and you can’t even answer. Why even come here if you aren’t going to contribute to the discussion besides trying to cause trouble and name call? Do you even know who Cashman is?”
This is my final response to you.
We’ve had this argument before. Your ‘copy/paste’ remark reminded me of the prior one (you may or may not have been going as ‘Jonah’ then).
Go away, troll.
Cb,
You gave me 3 guys from the farm system that were here before he was given “full control”.
I give Abreu but that was an obvious salary dump and he used the flexing of the financial muscles (like he should)
Molina? Ok the backup catcher is fine since he wasn’t able to get a quality backup in here since God knows when.
But where is the pitching?? In three years you mean to tell me, CB, the guy with “full control” and 200 mill to play with hasn’t brought in one pitcher???
“Why is it that Melancon is pitching every 3 days or so and throwing 3 innings? Is that just to build up his arm streght because right now he cant throw back to back days?”
i think he got a few days off too because he “started” the continuation of a suspended game (since dan mc had been called up and was gone anyway) and he went 3 or 4 in that. so he deserved a rest. then when he did come in i think he pitched another 2 or 2+ maybe. they use him in chunks, not just for a batter or an inning.
Jonah, we’re going to have to agree to disagree.
Tom Gordon, Hideki Matsui, Tony Clark (for one season), the trade for Bobby Abreu, the one-year deal for Jon Lieber, the trade for Javier Vazquez, the Gary Sheffield trade, the trade for Alex Rodriguez, the second Randy Johnson trade, letting Tom Gordon walk to get the compensation pick that turned into Joba Chamberlain (who said comp picks were useless again?)…
I see a lot of great moves on Cashman’s resumé, and I also see a lot of poor ones; some that we can certainly pin on Cashman, I will not dispute that. Some of the moves, like Pavano, like Wright, like Farnsworth, like Karsay…they didn’t work out. The Tim Hudson trade didn’t turn out too hot for Billy Beane, the Mark Mulder trade for Walt Jocketty. The Miguel Cabrera/Dontrelle Willis trade doesn’t look like nearly the slam-dunk it could (and should) have been just three months in, especially since Cabrera has already moved to first base.
The difference is that for all of the resources Cashman *did* have, he was lacking in the resources that he desperately needed: more scouts, an emphasis on the farm system, an eye towards amateur scouting both in America and abroad, a focused, top-to-bottom organizational plan (it’s really, really difficult to do business when the left hand wants to *strangle* the right, let alone does not know what it is doing)…
Money isn’t enough. You cannot just throw money around and expect it to stick. That the Yankees managed to do so well, with a decrepit farm system and without any semblance of an organizational grand strategy, is actually a miracle. I look back at what this Yankees team has done since 2001, and I don’t see failure: hard to say that a team averaging 95 wins a year is a failure. I do see areas for improvements, I see a lot of squandered opportunities, I see a lot of what-ifs? that should not have been, not because of some shortcoming in Brian Cashman, but in the shortcoming of the organization that was around him. And maybe he should have taken decisive action sooner. Maybe he should have thought twice before listening to the scouts who suggested Kei Igawa could be a major-league asset.
He’s not perfect, but when I look at the other executives in the game, their track records, and the organizations that they have had the luxury to build around them, and compare that to what Cashman has done when *he* was given that luxury, and I’m happy with what we have. Cashman put the personnel in place and let them do their jobs, and that resulted in a farm system turnaround the likes of which hasn’t been seen in quite some time, and with minimal aging star dumps for prospects. Most teams go from the bottom 3rd of the farm rankings to the top 3rd through full-fledged rebuilding cycles and first-half first-round draft picks that are borne from years of losing seasons; the Yankees did in two seasons while *still* making the playoffs and *without* those trades.
The Yankees have one of the top 5 farm systems in all of baseball right now; the other farm systems in the top five all belong to teams that have had to go through some sort of rebuilding cycle in the last five years, with the possible exception of the Red Sox, who have put together their team the same way the Yankees are putting their team together now: flexing their financial muscle in the draft, amateur scouting, international signings.
…just things to think about. Again, Cashman isn’t a saint, he’s made mistakes, and you’re right, we’ll never know what moves in the early 2000s he was and wasn’t on board with. But I look at what he has done, and I’m willing to take my chances with him going forward, because this team has one of the brightest futures of all thirty major league teams, even playing in what has been traditionally and will continue to be the toughest division in all of baseball.
By the way I don’t believe for a minute that’s the real Miggs.
Good try though.
“SJ44 has a new name. Ricardo-7.”
no way. sj is not old enough to remember the 55 dodgers.
ricardo-7
to my father’s chagrin, i was a pee wee reese fan for that fall.
hey, when you’re 6 how can you not like a shortstop named pee wee?
V the anon,
I don’t respond to a name caller and people of obvious low intelligence that all they can do is spend their time trying to cause trouble on a blog. And don’t have the wherewithal to actually be part of a discussion.
So I’ll ignore you like I should have from the beginning. But I am sure you can copy and paste a great response.
Getting Joba out of the pen – and into the rotation – was the plan since last year. No one could have seriously predicted that BOTH Hughes and Kennedy would blow up and land on the DL by the end of May. But such disaster is not a reason to change the overall plan. You want Joba to be a starter out of spring training next year. That’s why they’re moving him now. Why waste this year and next with a ++ pitcher in the bullpen? It makes no sense. It has nothing to do with not being “stalwart” enough. And yes, I know what that means.
Fallen Phoenix,
No question the Vazquez deal was Cashman’s worst. But the one that brought him here, not the one that sent him away.
Don’t ever forget that it was Cash who drove Pettitte out the door and replaced him with Kevin Brown, it was Cash would didn’t pursue Clemens (or even offer him arbitration), and it was Cash who targeted the Latin Jeff Weaver over proven winner Curt Schilling. Those are the deals that have changed history.
melancon went 4 in the suspended game (tuesday) and then 3.2 saturday
Phoenix,
All those guys you listed were before he had full control.
So we don’t know what hand he had in them from the discussions point of view.
At least he finally realized the farm system was garbage. Only took him 8 years into his reign as GM.
But since 2005 what else has he done? Like I said I can’t see one pitcher he’s brought in here. If Jon lieber is the best that he has going for him, no wonder why we are a .500 team.
“Fallen Phoenix,
No question the Vazquez deal was Cashman’s worst. But the one that brought him here, not the one that sent him away.
Don’t ever forget that it was Cash who drove Pettitte out the door and replaced him with Kevin Brown, it was Cash would didn’t pursue Clemens (or even offer him arbitration), and it was Cash who targeted the Latin Jeff Weaver over proven winner Curt Schilling. Those are the deals that have changed history.”
Say what? You’re saying getting Vazquez was a bad idea? I wish they had never let Vazquez go.
“Why doesn’t that surprise me. Guess it will have to remain a mystery in your universe.”
The mystery is what the baseball point is in all of that. It can’t be the setting up of the straw man of all the people who wanted Joba in the rotation but just never considered that there would be short-term ramifications for the bullpen. If there’s a genuine example of someone like that, I’d love to see it.
Otherwise, that’s the mystery.
Hey Ellen -
I understand Joba being in the rotation. I also understand his loss to the pen.
Really not hard to be able to understand both concepts. The more difficult obviously is being able to handle the ramifications of both. For some. Not for me.
Okay?
Cashman from ‘98 to ‘04: http://www.waswatching.com/arc.....index.html
Trisha,
Would it be possible for you to find a new hobby? You don’t exactly come off as a very intelligent fan – a lot of people here have actually PLAYED baseball, or at least know more about it than some wet-behind-the-ears phony like yourself.
“No. I don’t like Farnsworth. But you don’t need Joba. If we don’t have a single non-Joba non-Mo that can hold a 1 run lead, we’re screwed, pure and simple.”
When the payroll is $200M and the team is playing in the last year of the most famous stadium in the world, this is the time to win – or at least give it your best shot. We have the best setup/closer duo in the AL and the winning pct with those two ending the game is tremendous. Why sacrifice that? Don’t fix what isn’t broke. Maximize winning this year and do all the youth development next year and beyond. Another four months as the setup man won’t kill Joba – and it would give the Yanks a better shot. Unless you’re already tanking this season…
“If you leave Joba in the bullpen all year, he gets 70 innings if he’s used heavily. Tell me how he’s going to go from 70 to 200?”
NEXT YEAR should be the start of the process making him the SP. As I said earlier, next season the Yankees should be in full rebuilding & development mode and its the right time to take Joba into the next level. He would increase his innings in ‘09 and ‘10 he would be a full time starting pitcher. Joba should be a long term investment with the Yanks, so we’ve got plenty of time to develop him.
The Yankees are making him a starter now because they’re desperate. They were going to start Joba’s transition at the mid to end of this season, but the starting rotation flopped. Ian & Phil didn’t come through, Pettitte’s struggling, and everyone’s waiting for Mussina to break down. We won’t even get into the bullpen.
Don’t forget that Cash also passed on Lilly for Igawa.
Probably the one move right now that he regrets the most. Actually we all regret the most.
I thought it was about time he started the pitching boon in the system and he could have integrated it to the big league more seamlessly if he would have added some solid vets like Lilly. A 4 yr deal for a proven Al East performer was a solid bet. Easier to integrate one 21yr old at a time. Could have started all three off in the pen. Old Dodger way.
Cash hasn’t done poorly with everything he has done. His weakness seems to be in the pitching department. Either the scouting just isn’t that good, or Cashman makes a poor decision with them.
I like some of what Cash has done, but for the good things there are some bad things to go along with it.
This Hockey game is nuts btw
Hello double OT
I actually went to the Yankees/Twins game tonight because I am in Minneapolis for a few days.
I will grant you that the Yankees didn’t lose because of lack of production from Jeter and Arod tonight. They were pounding the Twins pitching.
Pettite was not real sharp but it seemed to me that he kept them in the game. My impression watching the game in person was that it was Farnsworth that let the game get away. He just didn’t look effective.
Q1.why they can’t beat Livan on this kind of game/5R/13H.
Q2:I can’t wait to watch Joba pitching tomorrow.Can somebody kindness tell me how many inning does Joba pitch per game in the minor.thanks.
You didn’t have to transition Joba to the rotation this year if you had good starters going.
cb-
then we’re in agreement that this shouldn’t be looked at as a real start. i have no problem with it then.
but i don’t want to see him left out there for 65-70m pitches if he’s doing well.
my stretching out rule with joba would be however slow you think you’re going, go slower.
CB, I had some calls about Gerrit Cole and I’ll hear from the blue who had the dish assignment on his final start…But the kid that raise many an eyebrow was the Junior Matt Hobgood who outpitched Cole that day….He’s commited to Cal ST. Fullerton after he finishes his Senior year…..I’ll post more tomorrow night….
This Hockey game is nuts btw
Hello double OT
AGREE!!
Hockey has to be seen in person to appreciate.
“But where is the pitching?? In three years you mean to tell me, CB, the guy with “full control†and 200 mill to play with hasn’t brought in one pitcher???”
Signing Andy Pettite for the 2007 season.
Andy was terrific last year.
Drafting Joba Chamberlain and developing him.
Those are two pretty good pitching acquisitions, don’t you think?
Again, you keep making the extremist argument that “no” good players have been acquired – none at all. That’s your argument. Its a very extreme one and clearly that’s not the case as there have been multiple strong acquisitions since 2005.
Also, even though Cano and Wang were in the system they were not considered Blue Chip prospects by anyone. Same for Melky.
It was Cashman’s decision to call them up and take a chance.
Calling them up to the big league team was not an easy decision or one that was intuitively obvious at all. They could have stayed buried in the minors for a long time. Go look up their numbers – not that great.
Finally, 3 years is just not very long to develop pitchers.
Otherwise we’ll need to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
“I understand Joba being in the rotation. I also understand his loss to the pen.
Really not hard to be able to understand both concepts. The more difficult obviously is being able to handle the ramifications of both. For some. Not for me.”
There, THAT is the mystery. Who are these “some” that just can’t handle the truth? Who are these dumbo people that aren’t so clever? Please, name names!
Santana-Wang-Pettite with Joba and Mo at the back end was a World Series winner. Who doesn’t want a series win here?
V,
Please tell me, is it hypnosis or heavy medication that’s helped you wipe away the memory Vasquez’s second half in ‘04 and his “performance” in Game 7?
Every time I close my eyes I see that pumpkin he threw Damon and the ghosts of Yankees past fly screaming from the Stadium.
Hey Trish,
Actually, I couldn’t care less what you’re OK with. I don’t understand your constant patronizing attitude, or your penchant for personal attacks.
This is a baseball blog. You have a commendable, positive-only view of your favorite team. Good for you!
Unfortunately, you save your negativity for those people here who disagree with you, and you consistently snark at people in an attempt to appear intelligent.
You’re an attorney. Good for you. So am I. Save the belittling nonsense for the courtroom.
“but i don’t want to see him left out there for 65-70m pitches if he’s doing well.”
randy,
He could be throwing a no hitter into the 6th and he hits 75 pitches (or whatever his limit is) and he’s getting pulled form the game.
I’m in complete agreement with you – there is no way this is a normal “start” in any way, shape or form.
And I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that the organization does either.
They are not taking any chances with Joba. When you say he’s the tipping point player for this season (as well as the near future) you’re absolutely right and the organization is looking at him in the same exact vein.
I think gayle said this the other day – she’s not looking at it as a “start” for Joba tomorrow but as an “outing.” I think that’s the right description.
My love is bigger than a Cadillac
I try to show it and you drive me back
Your love for me has got to be real
For you to know just how I feel
A love for real not fade away
Great call on Buddy Holly, PeteAbe…still sounds fresh after 50 years…”Think it over” is another great Buddy track.
RIP Bo D.
Pettitte is his one big acquisition, CB??
A guy who was already here and they foolishly let go?
And 3 yrs is a short time to bring pitching in?? Free agents, trades, etc?? You can’t do anything for what? A decade???
The point is he has done almost nothing with all the resources at his disposal.
At least Epstein brought in Okajima, Dice K, Beckett, Schilling, Papelbon, Bucholz, and Lester and that’s just pitching off the top of my head.
You think Cashman has done a good job, CB. I respectfully disagree.
Nick I guess I am saying I consider it a bit hypocritical for anyone who was rah rah about having Joba in the rotation to be roaring about the 8th inning woes. 8th inning woes were foreseeable since Joba was so solid in that role.
I am saying that I would think it would be those people who would step up at this point and be supportive of the Yankees and the situation and be more positive about letting it all sift out since they should have forseen that this would be a short-term, at least, outcome when Joba left the pen. But it appears that at least some of them are screaming bloody murder about the late-inning relief woes, and especially those situations that would have fallen to Joba.
That’s the best I can say it.
I like Joba in the pen, I think he will excel in the rotation and I think it will come faster than many expect, and I accept that we may have woes for a while without him there.
“You didn’t have to transition Joba to the rotation this year if you had good starters going.”
what do you mean you didn’t have to ? Pettitte isn’t getting any younger and Joba’s always been a SP I swear sometimes I wish we missed the playoffs big time last season because Joba was never suppose to be a BP guy, heck half of F’n NY wanted to trade him for Eric Gagme or Mark Teixeira, where are those people now ?
” didn’t have to transition Joba to the rotation this year if you had good starters going.”
Joba was being transitioned regardless of what the other five starters were doing. He will be a front line starter for this team for years.
“NEXT YEAR should be the start of the process making him the SP. As I said earlier, next season the Yankees should be in full rebuilding & development mode and its the right time to take Joba into the next level. He would increase his innings in ‘09 and ‘10 he would be a full time starting pitcher. Joba should be a long term investment with the Yanks, so we’ve got plenty of time to develop him.”
The reliever with the most innings in baseball last year (zero starts) was Heath Bell, with 93 2/3rds innings. That is a -heavy- workload for a reliever (relieving is more stressful unless you’re relieving once every five days).
Let’s say Joba goes 90 this year. Then he needs to transition next year, and go 120. He wouldn’t be able to start starting until August at the earliest to make that happen. Then 150 in 2010 (what he should make this year). So, you’re already two years behind schedule, just for a handful of appearances that may or may not lead to extra wins (Joba shuts ‘em down in the 8th tonight, who says this is a win?).
No. 150 innings this year. 180 next year. 210 in 2010. Full time starter.
Randy — How couldn’t you like a shortstop frequently confused with Rudy Kazootie by six year-olds of the era?
Since 2005:
Andy Pettitte (signed to a free agent contract). Chien-Ming Wang (called up). Joba Chamberlain (drafted).
I just gave you three pitchers, all starters; one is a innings eater who was also the best free agent starter available two seasons ago, one is a borderline ace/number two starter who is entering is prime, the other was on the short-list for top right-handed pitching prospect coming into the 2008 season.
I don’t blame Cashman for letting Roger walk; yes, he should have offered Roger arbitration, but everyone thought Roger was retired. Sometimes you just need to take a player’s word.
I still fail to see how one of the top ten starting pitchers in the American League the past two years could be counted as a failure, but if that’s how you want to evaluate Javier Vazquez, that’s your choice.
When Andy Pettitte left the Yankees, the Yankees received a 1st round compensation pick that turned into Phil Hughes, who two years ago was the top pitching prospect in all of major league baseball. Yes, he has been injured twice since then, but he’s still 21 and has a future of potential ahead of him. There are going to be players drafted this week who are going to be older than Phil, so to give up on his career this early is a mistake I’m glad no one on this blog is in a position to make. He might yet become yet another pitching prospect who never lives up to his potential, but that’s the sort of evaluation we do not have the luxury of making right now.
I’m looking at what players have been available on the free agent market and the trade market the last couple of years, and I cannot really think of anyone who I regret Cashman passing on. A.J. Burnett, maybe, although everyone thought the Jays were absurd to give A.J. $10 million a year. Boston’s made a few free agent clunkers, like the J.D. Drew signing, the Julio Lugo signing, the Matt Clement signing; since 2005-6, I’m not sure the Red Sox have made a free agent signing to rival the Yankees. Actually, I don’t think there have been too many solid free agent signings for *any* team since Cashman gained full organizational control.
…again, I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I’ll take the team with the top-five farm system, solid emerging young core, a plethora of pitching prospects which is the envy of almost every other organization in baseball, and financial muscle going forward to maintain those advantages. The fruit might not be ripe for another one or two years, but I have patience; I can wait.
They are putting Joba into the rotation because they are totally desperate. Hughes and Kennedy screwed us and we all know Mussina is a few pitches away a game from getting shelled. And we have all seen Wang and Pettitte lately. If we had good SP there would be no chance Joba would be a starter at this point.
Pat M,
Thanks so much for putting out those phone calls on cole. Hearing about his last start will be particularly interesting as it sounds like he was absolutely electric that game.
This is a very thin draft. I’m really hoping Cole is still on the board.
I don’t know Hobgood but I’ll keep the name in mind.
Look forward to hearing from you tomorrow on Cole.
Thanks so much.
CB -
That was me who said it was an “outing” as opposed to a “start.” When I say something fairly astute, I want the credit!
“V,
Please tell me, is it hypnosis or heavy medication that’s helped you wipe away the memory Vasquez’s second half in ‘04 and his “performance†in Game 7?
Every time I close my eyes I see that pumpkin he threw Damon and the ghosts of Yankees past fly screaming from the Stadium.”
So, one bad half year? What’s he done since? And don’t give me the ‘couldn’t cut it in NY’ crap.
He had an excellent first half. The league adjusted, and we never got a chance to see how he could adjust back. Didn’t he also have a minor injury that affected his mechanics?
CB,
Don’t forget that Cashman begged Arizona to take Cano in a package for R. Johnson, going so far as to move him to 3rd base at Trenton where we didn’t exactly have a need. He’s had his share of luck.
Another under-examined Cash f-up was his sleeping on A-Rod’s opt-out clause when he had him and Boras at the altar with nowhere else to go in ‘03. That probably cost the franchise 100 large, but it’s only money right?
Beautifully said Phoenix!
“They are putting Joba into the rotation because they are totally desperate. Hughes and Kennedy screwed us and we all know Mussina is a few pitches away a game from getting shelled. And we have all seen Wang and Pettitte lately. If we had good SP there would be no chance Joba would be a starter at this point.”
Boy, you sound like Mike and the Mad Dog.
The plan from day 1 (as in, the day he started transitioning to the bullpen in AAA last year) was for him to be a reliever until he could be a full-time starter, due to innings limits.
Ellen -
Ok, but recognizing or thinking that Joba should be a starter and not trusting Farnsworth or Hawkins are not mutually exclusive. Is the approved reaction to tonight’s events “well, I wanted Joba in the rotation, so them’s the breaks”?
Thems are always the breaks whatever anyone says in here. Farnsworth and Hawkins would be weak points in the rotation regardless of what was done with Joba.
The problems with this team are not limited to whether Joba does this or does that. Is there anyone who ever suggested otherwise?
Who is being so hypocritical?
Epstein brought in Daisuke for well over $100 million, and was given the go-ahead to pay more than $50 million just to get the rights to negotiate with him.
No other team came close to that, and the Yankees pushed as hard as could be expected during the blind auction.
Beckett cost the Red Sox someone who has gone to be one of the top young position players in all of baseball; none of the Yankees’ pitching acquisitions over the past few years have cost anything but money.
When you consider that Vazquez could have been Beckett’s rival this year (we’ll leave aside the question whether Cashman would have traded Vazquez away if he had full organizational control in 2005), he cost the Yankees significantly less in talent than Beckett did for Boston.
Bucholtz is in the same boat as Chamberlain. I’d argue Lester is in the same boat as Hughes, although you’d be hard pressed to find a scout in the game who thinks Lester has a higher ceiling than Hughes. He’s certainly out-performing Phil now, but Phil’s been sidetracked by injuries (remember, just two years ago, Lester’s baseball career looked over, just to show you how volatile the fortunes of prospects can be) and is still a few years younger.
I guess that leaves Schilling, though again, you can make Pettitte the analog there, and also consider that Epstein acquired Schilling when Cashman did not have full organizational control.
So I don’t know…I look at the pitching acquisition scorecards between Cashman and Epstein, and I see a relative dead-heat. Epstein might be ahead with current performance, but I think Cashman’s ahead in future upside, and only time will tell how that plays out.
Hey, just remember, the reason why the Yankees aren’t getting above .500 is because no snacks. Stressed is what this club looks like, and stressed is desserts backwards.
See, it all makes perfect sense, turn this season around by adding desserts.
“The plan from day 1 (as in, the day he started transitioning to the bullpen in AAA last year) was for him to be a reliever until he could be a full-time starter, due to innings limits.”
V let him or her or it be an idiot and speak to thierselves I’m tired of pointing out time and time again how Joba was originally and still is and always was to be the in the fullterm plans as either our Ace or #2 SP. Same people that say otherwise never followed Joba at all and probably learned about him in September. Just move on.
Personally, I’m glad the Yankees didn’t go after Schilling. I wouldn’t exactly like the team with Beckett and Schilling on it. While they can pitch, I can’t stand either one.
Fallen Phoenix,
Cash didn’t stiff Clemens on an arbitration offer because he forgot or because he thought retirement is forever; if that were true he should have been fired on the spot.
He didn’t offer him arbitration because he was afraid that he would accept. He thought Clemens was done and history has clearly proven him wrong.
As to Vazquez, you realize he wasn’t even in the rotation for the ‘04 ALCS. And nobody wondered why. Some guys are made for big spots and bright lights. He’s the other kind.
On Pettitte/Hughes: I love Phil as much as anybody and my confidence in him hasn’t been shaken an iota. But if I could trade everything he’ll ever be for another shot at Game 7 with Andy on the hill instead of Kevin Brown, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Wouldn’t you?
Regarding Cashman and Schilling, does any remember what Zona wanted from the Yankees, I believe it started with Posada and some other big names. It wasn’t the crap Theo gave up (Fossum, De Larosa and some other minor leaguer).
That deal went all the way back to the Boss taking Wells away from Zona after he had a deal with them. That mistake also cost the Yankees RJ in 2004, when he could have been really used.
I don’t think the plan was for Joba to be a Starter in early June.I thought Joba was gonna be a starter more in July when Cox,Melchon and Sanchez was given more time to rehab from all these Tommy John surgies.
Or maybe Girardi and Cashman are that dumb to think Fransworth and Ohlendorff were gonna be the 8th innings guys.
The Yankees were desperate in using Joba in June not if they used Joba in July.
“When you consider that Vazquez could have been Beckett’s rival this year (we’ll leave aside the question whether Cashman would have traded Vazquez away if he had full organizational control in 2005), he cost the Yankees significantly less in talent than Beckett did for Boston.”
Vazquez on the same level as Beckett??
You really think Beckett gets clobbered in a Game 7 like Vazquez did? Keep in mind this is the same Beckett who had won Game 6 in Yankee Stad 12 months before as a baby.
Vazquez is solid and we could surely use him right now but he is no savior for this team. But someone like him would be very appreciated in the rotation right now.
Also, don̵