Game 58: Blue Jays at Yankees
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 03, 2008 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
YANKEES
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Giambi 1B
Cano 2B
Molina C
Cabrera CF
Jobamania RHP
Jobamania (1-2, 2.28) vs. the Toronto hitters.
Roy Halladay (6-5, 2.93) vs. the New York hitters.
Notes: Thanks to Sam Borden for texting in the lineup. … In case you spent the weekend with Osama bin Laden in his cave enjoying the company of goats, Joba Chamberlain is starting for the first time in the majors tonight. He is expected to throw a perfect game, or at least a no-hitter. … A near-sellout crowd is expected.
Back later with updates and blogging all game long.
UPDATE, 4:09 p.m.: Dan Giese is in uniform and will be on the roster tonight. No 40-man move is needed since Morgan Ensberg got DFA’d. No word yet on the 25-man roster move. It could be contingent on whether LaTroy Hawkins starts his suspension tonight.
Oh, and I forgot to pass this along yesterday. Scott Patterson’s nickname is “The Stranger.” No great story behind it, just that nobody knew who he was in spring training.
UPDATE, 6:07 p.m.: Thanks for the memories, Scott Patterson. He was optioned out to make room for Giese.
UPDATE, 7:10 p.m.: I thought for sure that the Jays would forfeit. But they’re playing. The Joba Era, Chapter II, is under way.
UPDATE, 7:12 p.m.: An eight-pitch walk, just what the Jays wanted to start.
UPDATE, 7:17 p.m.: Good to see Joba using his curveball there to Rios. If you recall how he pitched when he first came up, Joba got a few strikeouts with his hook.
UPDATE, 7:25 p.m.: Well, that was not what they wanted as Joba allowed a run and threw 38 pitches in the first inning. The Blue Jays worked him really well.
We’re going to see a whole lot of Dan Giese tonight.
UPDATE, 7:31 p.m.: I’m sure there will be a whole lot of hand-wringing and panic over the kid allowing a run and throwing 38 pitches in his first inning as a starter.
He’s 22 and a year ago at this time no Yankee fan could pick him out of a lineup. Just relax. Focus on the two strikeouts and that he was maintaining his velocity.
UPDATE, 7:34 p.m.: Here’s the latest on Jorge Posada:
He caught seven innings in an extended-spring game vs. Phillies minor leaguers in Tampa and threw two runners out trying to steal second. It was his seventh extended-spring game.
“It feels good,” Posada told the AP. “I’m happy about it.”
Girardi wasn’t sure if Posada would play one more rehab game today or head back to New York. If he did play, Girardi said it would be as a DH. He figures to be back behind the plate for the Yankee in the series finale.
“His arm was great today,” Girardi said. “You might see him in there on Thursday.”
UPDATE, 7:42 p.m.: Now that Big Papi is out, might Hideki Matsui be the All-Star DH? Wow, he is raking. Huge hit there with two outs.
UPDATE, 7:47 p.m.: This is interesting. Stewart is the first batter Joba has faced twice in a game.
UPDATE, 7:50 p.m.: Here’s what I’m taking out of this: Why would you not want this guy to pitch more than inning? Joba has fanned three guys in two innings and of the three batters he walked, he had two strikes to each of them.
It seems pretty evident that he can maintain his stuff. He will learn to be more economical.
UPDATE, 7:53 p.m.: Harlan Chamberlain is pretty smooth on TV for a dude from Nebraska.
UPDATE, 7:54 p.m.: Damon is halfway to the cycle in the second inning.
I wonder if Chamberlain comes out for another inning? He’s at 53 pitches. Will they let him face a batter?
UPDATE, 8:02 p.m.: Joba knows what he’s doing. He turned off the electric fence in right field.
UPDATE: 8:04 p.m.: Well, that is that for Joba. 62 pitches / 32 strikes.
My boss, Susie Arth, is from Nebraska. I may get fired for my comment on Harlan.
UPDATE, 8:14 p.m.: Here is Joba’s night:
2.1 innings
1 hit
2 runs
2 earned runs
4 walks
3 strikeouts
1 balk
62 pitches / 32 strikes
UPDATE, 8:30 p.m.: Dan Giese isn’t fooling anybody here. Melky had Barajas out but he hit the mound. It’s not a bad break, however. Don’t throw the ball off the mound.
UPDATE, 8:42 p.m.: Al Leiter just said that Jose Molina “isn’t the fastest base-runner.”
In fact, he may be the slowest. But Al is a charitable guy.
UPDATE, 8:45 p.m.: If the Yankees stick to the plan, Joba will start against the Royals on Sunday and throw 75-80 pitches. He is two or three starts away from being fully stretched out.
UPDATE, 9:11 p.m.: The Cialis commercial YES shows is very disturbing. I love the part about how you should call your doctor if you experience sudden decrease in hearing and vision. How do you dial the phone or talk to the doctor if you can’t hear or see? Meanwhile your poor wife must be so disappointed. She’s ready for a good time and now you’s stumbling around the house walking into walls.
Then at the end, they always show the old guy and his wife in his-and-hers outdoor bathtubs. What is the point of that? You’re on the Cialis and you’re in separate tubs? Meanwhile, what point does the outdoor tub serve in the first place? “Ah, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, welcome to the hotel. Here is the bed, that’s the TV. The bathtub is out on the lawn. Have a nice stay.”
To me, there is only one way to sell Cialis. Hugh Hefner. Get old Hef to stand there with those three blondes and say that he takes it. What more do you need to know? Or Michael Douglas. He would be good, too.
UPDATE, 9:40 p.m.: Girardi loves the intentional walk. But in the AL the No. 8 or No. 9 hitter is still dangerous.
UPDATE, 9:44 p.m.: Saw that coming. What is the upside of intentionally walking the bases loaded and bringing Hawkins into the game? What makes you think he’s getting Eckstein with a GIDP? Girardi tries too hard sometimes. All the lineups, etc.
UPDATE, 10:43 p.m.: Jeter now has 2,415 hits, tying him with Mickey Mantle for third place in franchise history. Next up: Babe Ruth, who had 2,518.
Thanks Pete.
Anyone know who got sent down for Giese?
Pete,
Is Jobamania permanent, or is it just for tonight? Or does it depend on tonight’s results?
I like it, though.
From a prior thread – I found the like to the Wall Street Journal Article on Rick Porcello and the quirks of the baseball draft:
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....mod=sports
No pressure or anything kid. In addition to the whole world watching your first start…good luck with Roy Halladay.
Posted this in another thread, didn’t see the new ones.
in continuation about the Rays:
The Rays do have a lot of pitching prospects, but their lineup isn’t scary at all and I don’t see how it’s going to get better anytime soon unless they trade some of that pitching for some hitters.
As currently constructed their lineup doesn’t exactly instill fear.
Crawford who’s now 26 has a lifetime OBP of .331
Pena looks like last year will probably be his career year
Bartlett is an offensive cypher
Navarro is having a career year so far but we’ll see
Who’s their right fielder?
Iwamura is just decent
Longoria is still a question mark although they think he’ll be a superstar but the same was said about Alex Gordon
Upton is their only true star player as of now and seemingly he’s the only one who seems to care about OBP.
I’m sorry but that lineup doesn’t exactly say awesome to me.
They’ll have the pitching and defense similar to the Blue Jays but they need a couple more bonafied hitters in my opinion if they’re going to contend for the next 5 years.
If they do trade some of their pitching for hitters then they’re depleted in that area.
I didn’t know the Pope was back in New York…just a little bit too much hype…let’s hope Joba can get at least four innings (pitch count limit is 65 pitches)…tough matchup vs doc halladay.
^^Well, I found the LINK, not the Like.
Can you find out how many additional media credentials were handed out for tonight.If it’s JObamania it must be mmore so than usual figure some national people, all the local tv’s not just your normal tuesday night media crowd at the Stadium
Aren’t they going to present Joba the CY young, MVP and rookie of the year awards tonight?
Of course, they will be renaming the CY young the ‘Joba’…
Joba will also retire all 27 batters on only 27 pitches.
So, watch for that =]
Seriously though, I’m pumped for this start.
Because Pete’s moved on, but I’m still catching up (
), I’m reposting something I wrote in an earlier thread. Thanks for the indulgence.
A serious question: if Tampa wasn’t so bad for so long, would they have been able to stock their farm system? And when you get first, second choice, how difficult is it, really, to draft excellent, well-projected players?
The Yankees are behind the eight ball when it comes to drafting quality players. They have to take more risks, and they have to spend a great deal more money (which, thank goodness, they have), and they have to be extremely lucky. Rick Porcello was a guy targeted by all the big-money teams last year and the Tigers got him. Great article in last Friday’s Wall Street Journal about him, and about how he’s doing — extremely well.
The article also talked about how the way the draft is run is going to be a topic of much discussion in the next collective bargaining agreement, because MLB doesn’t think it’s fair that big money clubs can sign guys like Porcello while smaller market clubs tend to shy away because of the financial risk. I’m telling ya, the Yankees better take advantage of this situation now, because in my mind the writing in on the wall.
who got sent down to put giese on the roster?
Britton (AGAIN!)???
If Joba doesn’t do well tonight, I guess they’ll be about 500 GM-wannabes on here screaming that they shoulda left him the pen.
DMan, and all strike outs even.
here’s to joba & the use of his fastball
please issue no walks tonight
I think they will send down Duncan they need pitchers tonight so why lose one in a move
“Joba will also retire all 27 batters on only 27 pitches.”
Everyone would remain in the stadium and cheer as he throws 30 or 40 more pitches in the bull pen.
“who got sent down to put giese on the roster?”
Oh, come on. We all know who it will be. They don’t call it the “Britton SWB Express” for nothin’.
Do we know for sure who got sent down? I really hope Patterson gets a couple more chances to show what he can do.
“Everyone would remain in the stadium and cheer as he throws 30 or 40 more pitches in the bull pen.”
Or, Joe Giradri would announce that Joba will be starting tomorrows game as well. And be available to come out of the bullpen on Thursday.
This just came in…Joba is hitting for himself tonight.
Sorry didn’t see the new thread…
“If they do trade some of their pitching for hitters then they’re depleted in that area.â€
I think they probably will. And they’ll get a lot for a guy like Sonnenstine or Jackson.
The biggest concern with the rays is their process – Freidman is just really good.
They aren’t going to sit still. They are going to try to get better. I could see them trading pitching to get a big time RF for instance. Not necessarily this year, but at some point in the future.
They also showed a willingness to use free agency to fill a need with Troy Percival.
The bottom line – they really know how to evaluate talent.
It’s not simply that they have high draft picks – that’ s part of it. But when you follow their draft year in and out it’s amazing how often they hit on players – not just in round 1 but in later rounds.
They could draft Pedro Alvarez on Thursday – that could be a big boost to their offense in the near future. Whoever they pick I wouldn’t bet against.
They are going to be a very difficult team to beat for the next several years.
They are going to have a staff that is going to have more than one legitimate “Ace†and several other pitchers who are legit #2’s.
Joba will figure out a way to pitch so damn nice, opponents’ runs will be removed from history, leading to the first negative ERA.
Doreen,
I answered your questions re: Tampa and the draft in the other thread.
“And be available to come out of the bullpen on Thursday.”
I said to someone the other day, don’t count Joba out from doing his throw day in the 8th inning every now and again.
If Duncan isn’t sent down tonight he may go on Thursday when Posada comes back. The Yanks have already said that they will be carrying 3 catchers.
Patterson or Britton will probably go. And Hughes most likely will move to the 60 day to make room on the 40.
Duncan will probably go when Posada gets activated since they want to keep 3 catchers.
ESPN is reporting right now that the Cardinals and Brewers have teamed up to offer the Yankees Ben Sheets, Albert Pujols, Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, and Adam Wainright in exchange for 1 start from Joba for each team. Then he goes back to the Yankees. Yankees get to keep all the players.
I hope Joba has his command – the Blue Jays will know he’s on a strict pitch count, and could attempt to wait him out. I’d be VERY surprised to see first pitch swings from them.
Room doesn’t need to be made on the 40 I don’t think. He will take Ensbergs spot. Patterson was already on it.
“The Yanks have already said that they will be carrying 3 catchers.”
Until they are convinced that Posada is alright. Then, they will give Moeller the heave ho.
WAT HAPPEN WITH JASON LANE IS HE COMING UP NO UPDATES I HEARD HE WAS OUT OF THE LINEUP FOR SCRANTTON LASTNIGHT
“A serious question: if Tampa wasn’t so bad for so long, would they have been able to stock their farm system? And when you get first, second choice, how difficult is it, really, to draft excellent, well-projected players?”
Doreen,
This is a really good question. And clearly being bad and picking at the top of the draft is a huge factor.
That said Tampa Bay’s success goes way, way past having top 5 picks year in and out.
Just compare them to other teams that have high picks every year – the pirates, royals, orioles. There is absolutely no comparison.
If you look at their draft the thing that sticks out most isn’t simply the guys they take in the first round – it’s how good they are at taking guys in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds.
Those late picks are actually what separates their system. It’s not like they have a few blue chippers they got with the top pick. They are loaded with talent – that only comes through great talent evaluation and hitting on later round picks.
The baseball draft is all about uncertainty – it’s nothing like football or basketball as it involves much more projection and athletic skill is often meaningless (see Giambi, ortiz, etc.).
Over the past 10 years, there has been a player taken in the top 5 who has never played in the majors each year except 2005. So that a 20% failure rate in the top 5 picks.
It’s really remarkable how good Tampa is with their draft.
yankeefan91-
I heard Lane was given a routine night off. Nothing to do with a call up or anything.
hopefully Lane is gone
CB,
It’ll be interesting to see who they trade and who they get back in return. It does seem like they’re on the money with their talent evaluation as well.
I would think the Jays will be swinging at first pitches cause they’ll be afraid of seeing Dan Geise too soon.
I think a couple posters…Doreen maybe (sorry if thats wrong), are missing the point with the Rays. They are not good simply because of their draft position. They are good because of what and how they utilize those picks.
I think Friedman is showing he is already one of the best in the business. They evaluate talent better than most. If Longoria turns into the guy most think he will be, they might not need to trade one of their stud pitchers.
It’s still early, but the Rays really have something great going on. Tons of respect for what they are doing…
Girardi, please under no circumstances use Farnsworth tonight.
The talkingheads will all explode if he were to come in and blow a lead for Joba.
“They are not good simply because of their draft position. They are good because of what and how they utilize those picks.”
Yes. And there’s no reason to cast aside what they’ve done. However, I don’t know that the Yankees (say) could use the same approach. They can go over-slot, sure, but they just don’t get the same kind of access to top position player talent. Their later-round strategy can be similar, but that takes longer to show dividends. Like they may have with Jackson.
enough with the friedman lovefest.. was there much mystery in the # 1 pick last yr.?
No.. they have gotten top picks forever….
they need to keep these stars and deal with expectations etc… we will see, don’t fit them for rings yet…..
edwar should be given setup for now
Bob-
Girardi should stop using him in general, unless it’s the 6th inning maybe.
The guy has about a 4.50 ERA. Thats not a 7th or 8th inning man’s ERA in my opinion.
If Joba was throwing a perfect game at 60 pitches…would he stay in?
whats all this talk about tb
they are good because they were expected to finish last again
yes they have some things going for them, but they will come back down to earth
ray,
It will be interesting and it will have a big impact on the shape of the AL east.
They could literally trade Sonnanstine and Jackson and not miss a beat. In fact neither will be good enough to stay in their rotation (bullpen?)
When you think about how much the A’s are asking for Blanton – the rays could get back a lot for one of their current major leaguers or one of their prospects.
And you know the rays will have done a good job evaluating talent and upside in the trade.
Look at the Delmon Young – Matt Garza trade.
Oh, I agree DMan, Farnsworth should be cut loose in my opnion.
But that’s obviously not gonna happen or it would have a long time ago, and if he were to blow a Joba lead tonight, there would be rioting in the streets.
whozat,
Let’s at least be fair here…the Yankees don’t get access to the top amatuer talent so they have to settle for having access to the top MLB talent because of their ability to spend money. Ask the other teams which “access” they would rather have; to top free agents every year or top amatuers every year.
It’s absolutely true the Rays hold an advantage over the Yankees in the draft recently. Even this advantage is diminished somewhat by the fact the Yankees can spend whatever they want on big talent injuries (Brackman) and big dollar players later in the draft.
Joe,
You’re correct. I am late to the baseball draft party, and I’m trying to understand how it all works.
CB -
Thanks for your explanation. I was curious because you were speaking quite highly of the GM in Tampa, and I suppose that if they’re choosing players in later rounds of the draft that are turning out to be quality players, then he and his organization do indeed do well evaluating raw talent. I would surmise that Tampa Bay uses its (limited in relation to the Yankees) resources to fund their scouting system.
Why can’t the Yankees find that kind of scouting talent? Or are they finding it now, finally, after some arm-twisting and “aha” moments? I sure hope so. Because I really do think that since the free agency system is not what it has been, having a healthy farm system is the best way to sustain a team’s success.
I, for one, don’t think that Tampa is a fluke. They have been “pesky” offensively for at least 2 seasons, but were lacking starting pitching and a consistent bullpen and defense. They seem to have found the latter, which makes them a force to be reckoned with.
“They can go over-slot, sure, but they just don’t get the same kind of access to top position player talent.”
This is very true. Alternatively, the Yankees have a huge advantage in the international signing market.
That’s where they have to remain aggressive because that’s where it’s most likely they’ll get high quality position players.
It’s already starting to work. In addition to Montero the guy who’s had perhaps the biggest breakout kind of year in the yankees system may be Abe Almonte.
It’s just hard to project a 16 year old and it takes time.
Bob-
Girardi seems attached to him for some reason. I mean we know the guy has skill, but he cant channel it consistentily enough to be the go-to 8th inning guy.
You have to think someone can do better than a 4.44 Era..
He’s also given up a bunch of HR’s. 8 in about 21 Innings pitched… Terrible.
PECOTA projected the Rays to win 88 games this year.
Then again, it had the Yankees at 96.
Joba must have a Steve Nebraska start, 27 up – 27 down, all on strike outs.
BTW, I don’t care if Joba gives up 10 runs tonight. I’ll never second guess the move to the rotation because its the right thing to do.
Its going to pay off in the long run.
If the Yankees can’t find somebody to fill in the 8th inning, that’s on them.
Joba belongs in the rotation and I’m glad they are finally making the move.
“Ask the other teams which “access†they would rather have; to top free agents every year or top amatuers every year.”
Yes. We’ve seen what the ability to buy the best free agents has gotten us.
The game is changing. Great young players won’t be hitting free agency any more until they’re 30, and the ones that do will command so much attention that it’ll be ill-advised to get locked into the kinds of deals they command.
In terms of building a winner…I’m sure teams would rather be able to get position players at 22 that are near-locks to make a splash in the majors inside of 2 years than have to spend LOTS more money on a guy who’ll be great for two years and then be signed for three more as he starts to fall apart.
SJ44-
Don’t you think the Yankees have people that could handle the 7th and 8th inning though? Between Oley, Edwar, Britton, Patterson and maybe even Veras.
Don’t you think they have to stop turning to Farnsworth?
Doreen,
The Yankeed DO have someone very talented evaluating talent now. Damon Oppenheimer has done a fantastic job since taking over. He is an up and comer and one of the top GM candidates out there. The Yankees would be wise to do what it takes to keep him.
if the yanks were going to move him why didn’t they get a reliable arm for the pen? Cashman stinks
“Why can’t the Yankees find that kind of scouting talent? Or are they finding it now, finally, after some arm-twisting and “aha†moments? I sure hope so.”
I think they have, but it takes longer to see the impact. The hits you make on later-round guys are young toolsy guys who take a couple years to show up.
Same deal with teh international guys. The Yanks have an advantage there, but you’re signing 16-18 year old players and have to wait for them to mature. You commit to young player development in 05, and these young toolsy kids you find and sign still won’t be showing up in the bigs until 2010 if not later
I find if hard to believe that sj44 won’t be negative at any point tonight. Don’t make promises you can’t keep sj
Joe -
Ah, yes.
Thanks.
So, they need more like him! Does he have enough resources, in manpower? I would hope that the Yankees are making the financial resources necessary available.
I don’t think teams would turn DOWN a 22 year old college loack position player. I just don’t think they would take that over a 200+ million payroll. And don’t forget, there aren’t Texiera’s and Arod’s every year.
The Yankees free agent signings haven’t worked out like they wanted them to, but Boston Anaheim and Chicago did pretty well by spending a bunch of money the lasta 5 years.
I am getting the feeling that the current team is “built” to “tread water,” so to speak. Remain competitive while building up the foundation of the organization. The Yankees, with a few tweaks here and there, should still compete for the division this season, especially if all the bad “stuff” has happened now rather than later in the season (ARod, Posada, Hughes, etc., being injured; Cano, Giambi, Damon, etc., starting slowly).
It seems the SOX are starting to catch the injury bug like we got from the S.T. now the Yanks gotta get a serious streak going were at home alot of Joba excitement now its time to cash in, The Rays are in first but have been mediocre on the road they are starting a string of 9 straight on the road 3 of which against the SOX we now is the time for the Yanks to start playing like they got an interlocking NY over their heart
After his start and subsequent bullpen work, the Yankees announced that Joba will take on Kimbo Slice in an MMA match. Joba will be fighting blindfolded and will have his pitching arm tied behind his back.
And also compete for the Wild Card (no longer a dirty word).
Hard to see Joba lasting more than 3 innings. Most likely he’ll reach 60 pitches at the end of two. Bet on it. Get ready Giese.
Go Yankees!
The Rays are doing great and kudos to them but it IS alot easier to play ball with little to no pressure on them to get into the playoffs every year.
Last year Edwin Jackson went 5-15, do you think a pitcher with those numbers would be on the roster for the Yanks, Mets or Sox?
so know FATCESSA is a mind reader
“I bet if you were to give Mariano some truth serum he’d want Joba in the 8th”
Eric Randell your saying Joba will throw 30 pitches in both the first AND second give the guys some credit hes not Kei Igawa I’d say 4 is conservative
“Why can’t the Yankees find that kind of scouting talent? ”
For years the yankees have been run almost like a U.S. auto company.
Big revenues but not very efficient. Always looking for the next big hit in the short term while not really thinking strategically long term.
Now they have a team full of SUV’s.
The Yankee’s scouting infrastructure is much better than it was but it’s still far from being where it should be.
George was just strange with money – willing to spend lavishly on some things (free agents). But much more tight fisted with things that did not bring back immediate returns (scouting).
They still really need to ramp up their scouting. There is no reason why they shouldn’t vastly outspend other team to develop what is by far the best amateur scouting in the industry. They can higher more scouts and more experienced scouts than any other team if they want to. Same goes for their minor league scouting.
I think they’re moving in that direction but developing that organizational capacity takes time.
It takes real commitment from ownership most of all.
Same thing for their statistical analsysis resources – it’s pitiful. Compare them to what the Indians have been able to leverage with their DiamondView database system – it’s just sad.
The yankees still need to get better at their research and analysis capacities.
They need to become the Toyota of major league baseball and stop being GM.
Actually Brandon, I think Mo has said that.
P.S. yes I heard John Heyman speak the stupidest scouting report I ever heard, Pedro Alvarez is a damn good player I know that heck I was from Washington Heights and I have family there, but …IN NO WAY OR SHAPE IS HE MANNY RAMIREZ..NO WAY.
Patterson was optioned out.
i think our scouting dept has done just fine in the past
george has always traded them away for fa’s in the past tho
now things may be different
“Actually Brandon, I think Mo has said that.”
when, where, tell me where Mo said he’d rather have Joba pitching in the BP than as a SP
Everyone will shut their mouths about Joba in the Pen if he finishes with 15 wins 150 K’s and a 2 ERA including no-it-all Francesa
Jerome Bettis is from Detroit.
It would really be un-funny if Joba couldn’t even get out of the first inning.
Mike,
Nice to see you back stalking me. Happy trolling.
The game is changing. Fewer impact free agents are going to be on the market in the next several years. Too many teams are signing their good young players to contracts that keep them off the free agent market in their peak years. It will impact the game in the next 4-5 years.
Also, many teams have been burned by free agents who get hurt. Insurance, something that’s not talked about too much by fans but, is a major issue with teams.
Teams can’t get as many years on career ending disability policies for players (especially pitchers) as they have in the past.
That puts the team on the hook for a ton of money for some of these free agents.
For example, the Mets could only get 4 years worth of insurance on Santana. If he is hurt after that, the Mets are on the hook for the rest of the deal.
The Yankees had insurance pickup most of Carl Pavano’s contract.
Teams would rather develop from within, get the best early years from players, and control their costs.
Dman,
I will never understand why the 8th inning is so hard for the Yankees. If Farnsworth can’t do the job, just try another guy.
Why is this so hard?
Dan Wheeler is pitching the 8th inning for the Rays. He’s not exactly a great pitcher.
This ain’t hard. They have a ton of arms to try in the spot.
Do it by committee for awhile and go with the hot hand if need be.
I just don’t understand awarding the 8th inning to a guy who has shown time and time again he can’t do the job.
Exactly why does it take so long for the Commissioner’s Office to make a decision on the suspension of LaTroy Hawkins ?
It’s not like the Office is based in Kong Kong and there’s a line of 50 suspensions ahead of Hawkins.
Brandon,
In a post game interview with Kim Jones. Mo wasn’t against Joba starting but preferred him in the pen. IIRC, Damon was a Joba pen guy too.
Jeter took the Jeter route and said either way has a upside.
Scouting young talent is indeed taken seriously two words Johan Santana we coulda had him but we preferred Hughes lets see how this plays if in five years hes a 1 or 2 then its ok if not then its a clear mistake
The Yanks finally have a long reliever. Thank you, God. Now, Girardi just has to eliminate Farnsdearth and Hawkins from high leverage situations, then all will be well in the world.
“but Boston Anaheim and Chicago did pretty well by spending a bunch of money the lasta 5 years.”
Yeah, that Gary Matthews deal looks great. And the Torii Hunter signing will look AWESOME in a year or two. As for the ChiSox? Which free agents? Didn’t they trade for or build that 05 rotation? The Sox? JD Drew? Who else have the signed as a big FA recently? They re-signed Lowell, and we’ll see how that turns out. When was the last big-name FA signing they made? Schilling? Wasn’t that a trade too?
Randell that is a possibility Joba might be too amped up n just walk the ball-park you never know
Andrew,
Source on Patterson being optioned?
CB -
Very excellent comparison. I like your line about the Yankees having a team full of SUVs.
It still boggles my mind that George Steinbrenner did not operate “long-term” and “big picture,” but I suppose instant gratification is very attractive, and he was still making money.
It’s hard to realize that the NY Yankees, who should be the cream of the crop, are behind when it comes to what amounts to some fairly basic investments.
It should be encouraging that both Hank and Hal have expressed distaste for the way their father did business in the past, especially with regard to the farm system. It seems they are both on board with the new direction. And well they should be, because they can be successful and cost-efficient at the same time if they do it right.
So, CB – do you think the baseball draft gets too much publicity these days, which results in people getting the impression that drafted players, especially first roundpicks, will make immediate impacts on their respective teams? Or maybe not too much publicity, but publicity without enough education?
“In a post game interview with Kim Jones”
which game, they’re all on video archives
santana has not done anything to say that we should have traded for him
hughes will be good
I cant wait til Joba can throw 100 pitches now that will be exciting tonight feels like too much of a tease for us fans
“In a post game interview with Kim Jones. Mo wasn’t against Joba starting but preferred him in the pen. IIRC, Damon was a Joba pen guy too.”
It’s true. But, none of these guys have ever seen him as a start. And they’re also FAR from objective observers. And, they don’t really take a long view. They see tomorrow’s game.
The Angels have one of the best farm systems in baseball. So do the Red Sox. And, the Yankees for that matter.
Three big market teams that are using their money intelligently to build their farm systems.
The White Sox traded everybody away and overpaid for a ton of guys. Let’s see how that works out as the season unfolds.
Patterson is the guy who got sent out per Michael Kay.
Santana is 7-3 3.20 ERA 71 K’s Id take that over Phil “DL” Hughes I hate to admit it but this kid has become Mark Prior but even earlier
Too bad for Patterson. He’ll undoubted be back at some point as they figure out what they’re going to do. I guess that means that Britton gets to hang around for a few more days?
Either way it really doesn’t matter because this is about building the future rotation, Our rotation is not promised, your not promised Pettitte next season, your not promised Wang, your definitely not promised Moose, this is a move done not only w/ this season in mind but the next few years in the reshaping of the starting rotation. I love Mo but he’s not a scout nor is he GM, neither are any of us, (well maybe SJ) but you guys get the point.
Whozat is right. Most veteran players would want Joba to stay in the rotation because they are only thinking about now.
The organization can’t take that view. They have to think of now and the future.
If I was a veteran player on the Yankees, I’d just worry about my own play. With the exception of Mo, its not exactly like they have set the world on fire to start the season.
Interesting stat from the YesNetwork blog:
RISP w/ 2 outs:
Giambi: 0-19……….000
RISP:
Giambi: 5-40……….125
I’m tired of the recent Giambi support. The guy still fails when needed.
Brandon, I don’t remember which one.
Whozat is backing me up.
I know.
“Santana is 7-3 3.20 ERA 71 K’s Id take that over Phil “DL†Hughes I hate to admit it but this kid has become Mark Prior but even earlier”
Yeah, his rash of shoulder and arm injuries is…really…oh, wait…that’s not true at all.
Also, evaluating that trade now is stupid. Talk to me in four years, and then we’ll know. Also, take into account whatever Melky does between now and then. And then tell me who’d be playing CF now, how you’d have gotten that player, and what the results of that were.
Brandon Santana has ALWAYS allowed alot of HR’s whats new?
yu -
santana’s #’s are bad for him: 3.2 is actually bad for him, whip 1.2 is also bad FOR HIM, baa .248 is really bad, 12 hr’s already = bad
santana has been bad when compared to santana, and all this while being in the nl
so u can say that those #’s are still better than hughes’, but hughes has come nowhere near his potential, he just came up last year… an imo, santana is declining slowly.
Would anyone deny that Hughes is injury prone I doubt it
Good luck to Joba tonight in his first start as a Yankee. I hope he does well.
“It should be encouraging that both Hank and Hal have expressed distaste for the way their father did business in the past, especially with regard to the farm system. It seems they are both on board with the new direction. And well they should be, because they can be successful and cost-efficient at the same time if they do it right.”
Yes it’s very encouraging to see ownership raise ticket prices based on the stadium and not the team. It’s also great to hear those quotes from Hank when he talks about next year this early in the year and when he’s oblivious to how they’ve planned to use these young guys. Very encouraging stuff here.
“Brandon Santana has ALWAYS allowed alot of HR’s whats new?”
Not true. He did last year and this year. His HR rate jumped .4 per nine last season. That’s a lot. And he’s still at that rate now. Also, he’s not throwing as hard this season. That bodes REALLY POORLY for his ability to remain excellent for the course of his contract.
Understood but Hughes has either been injured or terrible with the exception of 3-4 starts last year and that game against Cleveland in the ALDS
santana has NOT always given up a lot of hr’s
03 – 17
04 – 24
05 – 22
06 – 24
07 – 33
08 – 12 (on pace for 36)
Some thoughts –
1. George is not, nor was, a ‘baseball man’. He just understood star power, I think. The results speak for themselves.
2. I remember an interview Cash did with Pete in the spring, where he spoke of convincing the Steinbrenner Bros. about the importance of investing in scouting and stat analysis. We speak of the results in the scouting and farm areas every day on this blog. The stat work isn’t as obvious, but probably plays in the farm development, and into some of the things that Cash does/doesn’t do.
Whether you call it rebuilding or transition, this appears to be that year for our Yanks. Doesn’t mean they can’t make the postseason. We shouldn’t lose hope for this year.
Some thoughts –
1. George is not, nor was, a ‘baseball man’. He just understood star power, I think. The results speak for themselves.
2. I remember an interview Cash did with Pete in the spring, where he spoke of convincing the Steinbrenner Bros. about the importance of investing in scouting and stat analysis. We speak of the results in the scouting and farm areas every day on this blog. The stat work isn’t as obvious, but probably plays in the farm development, and into some of the things that Cash does/doesn’t do.
Whether you call it rebuilding or transition, this appears to be that year for our Yanks. Doesn’t mean they can’t make the postseason. We shouldn’t lose hope for this year.
Chad Jennings reports Scott Patterson goes down.
“Would anyone deny that Hughes is injury prone I doubt it”
That’s incredibly simplistic. Comparing Hughes to Prior really just makes no sense at all.
Doreen,
I think the mlb draft is in a state of transition – it’s become much more popular, particularly through the internet and mlb.com giving live coverage with scouting reports on the players. Live coverage through ESPN as well is a huge change.
But I do think that people approach it like the NBA or NFL drafts.
And of course the vast majority of players you can never see play, especially the high schoolers.
Ultimately I don’t think you can follow the draft alone because you don’t see the aftermath as it’s really the minor leagues which define what the draft mean in the first place and that often takes years.
So I think that as minor league ball increases in popularity, people will be able to work backwords and follow the draft in a more informed way.
every year except for 03′ he allowed 20 or more HR thats high so I dont see a huge difference from 25 HR allowed and 35 either way its terrible
He hasn’t always allowed HR’s and hasn’t done it throwing 91 MPH. He’s also in an easier league. He didn’t have to face pitchers in the AL.
A year ago at this time, Santana was throwing 94-95 MPH.
Sunday night, he didn’t have a pitch above 92 and sat at 90-91 for most of the night.
He also sat at 91 for his Yankee start.
Mind you, this is Year 1 of his deal.
That’s a significant drop in his velocity. That’s why baseball is buzzing about it, as Buster Olney wrote in his blog last week.
Its a trade that can’t be reviewed now because its a trade that wasn’t a one year deal.
Suppose by Year 3, Santana is down to 89 MPH and is a good, but not elite pitcher and Phil Hughes is a solid #2 or #3 pitcher on the Yankee staff? Still think paying 23 million for Santana would be a “good” deal?
He’s trending downward and its a big reason why both the Yankees and Red Sox passed on him.
u cant call hughes injury prone… all his injuries were non-baseball related, specifically nothing to do with his arm
hamstring last year
rib this year
that is nothing compared to what prior’s arm has been through
“Understood but Hughes has either been injured or terrible with the exception of 3-4 starts last year and that game against Cleveland in the ALDS”
Yes. In the second half of last year and the first half of this one, he was only good until he hurt himself, in september, and in the post-season. And then he stunk in the beginning of his first full season — at age 21 — and it turned out that he was hurt for at least part of that.
Yes, let’s call the kid a bust at an age when most of his peers are in AA.
Hughes has had 2 LENGTHY DL stints in less than 12 months that is not the best way to start a career
scouting…I really think the Yankees will pull some new tricks out this year, I think Cashman and all have been working very hard, I think the scouting department needs improvement, but will find some gems.
For a pitcher holding all of the fans hopes and expectations in his right arm he has been disappointing at least IMO
Poor Patterson, well enjoy those free medical and dental benefits for life. Not a bad consolation prize.
Ahhhh…why Patterson? Britton knows that route so well, it would have just been easier for him to find Scranton.
Very disappointed right now…I really want to see what Scott can do in the big leagues. His numbers the last two years and most of this year are rediculous. Hopefully, he gets another shot soon.
I’m curious what the players really think about this Joba move…
Does anyone know of any instances in print or on the Web where a player or players have stated that they’d rather have Joba in the Pen?
Or that that rather have him start for that matter?
I don’t want hearsay-I want quotes!
Besides Moose-I believe he’s been quoted as saying that Joba should remain in the Pen…
im not going to argue #’s w/ u, but an increase from the low 20s to the mid 30s in hrs is in fact a lot.
yankee fans and morons like Francess think they need to solve every problem with a signing.. the moron mentioned Linebrink, yes he is better the Kyle but I think he is a bad signing and a choke artist.
try the young guys, how complicated is that? They fail try the next guy, 1 or 2 of them will succeed..
Melancon, cox, robertson, edwar, try them…
“every year except for 03′ he allowed 20 or more HR thats high so I dont see a huge difference from 25 HR allowed and 35 either way its terrible”
That’s because you are looking at the number of home runs he allowed in total rather than looking at the rate at which he gives up home runs.
It makes no sense to look at the total number of home runs without considering how many innings he’s thrown that year.
Between 2006 and 2007 santana’s home run rate/ 9 innings went up 45%.
That’s very dramatic.
SJ,
I have to believe that Melancon will be our 8th inning guy the last few months of the season. Cox will help out in 6th and 7th. RObertson, too. What’ya think? We just have to make due with what we have now.
I believe the trade for Santana was at one point simply Kennedy and Marquez for Santana straight up why wasnt this trade made Kennedy is like Mussina with less fastball and Marquez has been a let-down thus far in AA regardless of HR totals declining ability Santana will still be a top 10 guys for the next 2-3 years
who cares what Giambi thinks of whom should start..
again why waste your best arm for 80 innings a yr. instead of 200???
No one who as any clue about baseball thinks Joba should be in the pen only morons like; mike and the moron, heymen, madden, and other knuckleheds.
Talk to me about the move in 1 yr., talk to me about the snatana signing in 3 yrs, talk to me about Hughes being a failure when he is 24….
get a LIFE…….
Beningo just said w/ Joba the Yankees BP is worse than the Mets
The Red Sox and Yanks have it tough as they can not totally scrap and rebuild. Here is a look at ticket prices for 2008.
MLB avg.- 25.40
Sox-Highest avg price for ten years at 48.80
Cubs- 42.49
Yanks-36.58
Those are your top 3 in MLB. It is hard to rebuild when you are asking your fan base to pay a premium for tickets. You need to market some FA signings. I would also guess that the new Yankee stadium will surpass Fenway as the highest ticket based on what I have read about the increases. This is a very difficult dance for an MLB franchise.
Just for kicks…
The lowest avg ticket is AZ at 17.23.
The lowest cost index for a game is TB 136.91. The highest is Fenway at 320.71. Makes sense to fly from NY or Boston to a game at the dreadful Trop.
-dennis
“Comparing Hughes to Prior really just makes no sense at all.”
Of course it does. Don’t you know that in 2006 Dusty dressed up like Bill Masse for the year and managed phil at Trenton.
dont think any of us here will ever know what was finally asked of nyy from min
heard it was kennedy + melky for johan, which , personally i would have done (and i thought this during the offseason, prior to kennedy sucking it up), but who knows now
i just want a win tonight!
Beningo is a moron too the only good guys at FAN are overnight guys
“I believe the trade for Santana was at one point simply Kennedy and Marquez for Santana straight up why wasnt this trade made Kennedy is like Mussina with less fastball and Marquez has been a let-down thus far in AA regardless of HR totals declining ability Santana will still be a top 10 guys for the next 2-3 years”
that is flatout false and never was a possibility
The Santana trade was never for Kennedy and Marquez straight up.
Never. Not idea where you are coming up with that but its untrue.
I too think its going to end up being Melancon by Mid-Late July.
Hopefully, sooner rather than later.
Can someone explain in Pete’s previous post what exactly the “Hub” is? I dont get it.
“Those are your top 3 in MLB. It is hard to rebuild when you are asking your fan base to pay a premium for tickets.”
Dennis,
Very good point. I think it becomes even more difficult to use the “r” word when you have a regional cable channel to support as well.
I think Melancon has looked good I can see him as the eight inning guy
I went home for lunch yesterday and turned on YES and who do you think Mike and the Mad Dog were talking about again? Bronson Arroyo. Unreal. Give it up guys. They talk (especially Mike) like this guy will push us over the top.
Possibly during the winter rumorfest but Im confident that was on MLB insider but then again just rumors and on Melky Austin Jackson will be better when hes ready
c’mon now, if we are going to start developing our own minor leaguer, you guys are really going to have to chill on these big pronouncements of whos good and who sucks when they are 21 or 22 yrs old.
you grade guys like kennedy and hughes ona 3 or 4 year scale, unless arm injuries intercede. hughes has missed time, sure, but not to his arm and shoulder. he also hasnt had a chance to pitch healthy for a long spell, and when he has pitched, he has shown flashes of brilliance.
kennedy also, it hasnt even been a year since he made his mlb debut. sure, he wasnt ready to start in the majors this spring, but they pushed him into the rotation anyway, but its waaaaay to early to start dismissing him or to trade him away for some middle reliever who might help for a season.
chill out, the hughes and kennedy stories are only in thier first chapter at this point. anybody who’s making pronouncements on what phil is and what ian is is calling the race after the first furlong.
Let’s be honest, its not like the Yankees are putting a horrible product on the field.
Arod, Rivera, Joba, Wang, etc. Not enough stars for you?
They have made the playoffs every year since 1995 and have been competitive every year since 1993.
At some point every team, even the Yankees, have to rebuild.
You can call it reloading, rebuilding, whatever word that makes you feel better. It still has to happen.
Look at the team and look at the money coming off the books at the end of the year. Its getting rebuilt and if you can move it along during this season, why not?
Sj again Melancon 41 innings already, when is he ready? How many innings can he go this yr.?
Why end of July?
Who is getting sent down today for Giese? Please g-d how about Hawkins and Kyle being DFA’d(send a message)….
via Bronx Liasion Humberto Sanchez – has been working his way back from Tommy John surgery and will soon be pitching to live batters. His armstrength has been built up to about 40-45 pitches.
Though the Yankees have yet to say anything official regarding Sanchez’s role, it’s widely believed he will break into the Yankees farm system as a late inning reliever.
BTW Bronx Liasion or anyone who posts in his blog tell him target date Jun 10th (Humberto pitches for GCL Yanks)
Sometimes you can judge a young pitcher by their stuff honestly Hughes has a good curve and alright fastball with late movement but not much else and IPK has 3 or 4 mediocre pitches and a fastball that MUST be on the corners that to me doesnt seem like a top pitcher thats a finesse guy and obviously not finesse ala Glavine, Maddux or Mussina more like
steve trachsel
“and on Melky Austin Jackson will be better when hes ready”
Which will be…how many years?
And it was NEVER, EVER Kennedy and Marquez. Ever. No reputable source believes that to be true. I think Klapisch reported that, but all the other stories that came out around then — and the retrospectives since then — have stated that it was WANG, Kennedy, Melky and someone else. In place of Hughes, Melky, Marquez and someone else.
So, if you’re going to evaluate those non-trades, you have to provide the Yanks with a CFer, and that starts to modify the calculation.
“Sometimes you can judge a young pitcher by their stuff”
Yes. And on command. And that’s why the people who do these rankings for their JOBS ranked him the best (or maybe 2nd best) pitching prospect in the minors going into 2007. He wasn’t ranked this year because he doesn’t qualify any more. Too much MLB service time.
Austin Jackson will be ready next year which seems fine to me because this season is one huge experiment and already seems like a foregone conclusion
Stuart,
They have to feel his arm strength is ready to go over the long haul. I don’t think they feel he is quite there yet.
When he gets called up, they want it to be a one way callup. They won’t put him on the Scranton Shuttle.
They have to feel like he can hold up over the rest of the year.
How many innings can he pitch this year? I don’t know because I haven’t heard any innings projections for him.
Patterson got sent down for Giese.
Let’s GO JABBBAAA! Go Yankees!
http://zellspinstripeblog.wordpress.com
Kevin
yu darvish. you have it all figured out, Hughes may be a decent #4.. I am laughing….
I saw Hughes pitch against the Indians in the playoffs at 20 or 21 he looked pretty damn good to me. check out his #’s last sSept. FOrget it you are smarter then Oppenheimer and about 50 other career scouts.. Yea trade Hughes for Aaron Heilmann, now!!!!!!!!!!!
Hughes and Kennedy are 2 different guys, there stuff is 2 different worlds.. again the patience of yankee fans is as much as a infant…..
“Sometimes you can judge a young pitcher by their stuff…”
Not necessarily when they are transitioning to the majors.
All pitchers have difficulties and when they do their “stuff” generally looks bad.
Clay Buchholz has struggled this year and his “stuff” hasn’t looked great.
But that’s why you consider what other people have said about the pitcher’s talent when he was in the minor leagues.
It amazes me how certain some fans are – they see a young pitcher pitch a couple of games in which they struggle and are certain that player is the next Steve Trachsel? Really. That’s a remarkable scouting eye – see a couple of outings and you can predict a career.
it was Klapisch, I remember him being the one that came out w/ that bogus trade rumor. No one else believed it, not even LAvelle E. Neal who is the beat writter of the Twins.
“that to me doesnt seem like a top pitcher”
Who ever said Kennedy was a top pitcher? He’s a young and cheap back end guy. His change is actually great. His curve is fine, and he has enough fastball if he locates it. If everything breaks right for him and he can spot his FB all the time and throw his curve for strikes, his change makes him a #3. If not, then he’s more of a 4/5. And that’s fine. Ian Kennedy was not who held up this deal. It was the money, the years and Phil Hughes. And then Wang, because…ha.
I’ll be back later people..GOOD LUCK JOBA !
YANKEES WAKE THE F… UP !
SJ44.
I think the Yanks have a great product. I just think that from a marketing perspective that teams feel pressure to make a splash especially if there is a pending spike in ticket prices.
-dennis
“Austin Jackson will be ready next year which seems fine to me because this season is one huge experiment and already seems like a foregone conclusion”
You are truly an incredible judge of talent. Wow, 53 games of AA ball with an OPS below .800 and you’re ready to declare him ready for the bigs come 2009.
He hasnt shown much command this season its about who can become a good MAJOR LEAGUE PITCHER and that was referencing his performance in AA and AAA the end of last season he was brand new and brimming with confidence this year he seemed less confident and more predictable not a recipe for success it seems hitters have caught wind of how he pitches them and frankly he doesnt have the stuff to recover none of his pitches with maybe the exception of his change-up are plus and his fastball isnt good enough to work off of
no offense Yu, but how long have you been a baseball fan? how many guys hughe’s age are stud major league pitchers? and how many stud major league pitchers were studs when they were 22? when greg maddux was 22, his era was 5.6 and his whip was 1.70. if you were his g.m. you’d probably have dfa’d him.
santana at 22, 6.90, 1.80
smoltz 5.48, 1.67.
SJ I just don’t get it.. they are losing games with Kyle in there and who is suprised and they have a stud who supposively has the mentality for the big stage and has really good stuff but they keep him in AA because of arm strength. They can put him in low risk settings to start for the yanks and then over time if he succeeds move him up but they are waiting and losing time and games.
The same holds for Cox, who again has pitched AAA this yr. and I think AAA 2 yrs ago and had a very good success thru out the minors and had a big role in a big college program and supposively has a very good head…
SJ if these guys did come up and produce any chance they would get rid of kyle and Hawkins???
I NEVER said Hughes was a 4 Stuart I said if hes not a 1 0r 2 then the Johan trade was a mistake thats all I said
Santana isn’t even top 10 right now; from a era/era+ viewpoint, Lee/Volquez/Peavy/Webb/Sheets/Joe Saunders/Lincecum/Zambrano/Marcum/Dempster are better (in no particular order, and there’s still more with better era and era+ than Santana this season). Heck, Ervin’s the better pitching Santana at this moment. Santana’s 1.2 WHIP, while excellent, wouldn’t break into either AL’s or NL’s top 10 right now.
(For that matter, Santana’s raw 3.2 era doesn’t break into either the AL or the NL’s top 10.)
If Santana was simply advertised as an excellent frontline pitcher, an ace, or whatever, that’s one thing. It’s another thing when he’s billed, and priced, as the no-doubt-absolute-best.
Ive been a baseball fan all my life and who said HUGHES was a STUD thats a big word the guy only dominated one game and that was when he pulled the hammy so far that game is it the only game where he has looked anything close to STUD dont throw that around
a STUD prospect is all talk until he puts that performance on the field in a ML ballpark until then he is simply a prospect a Stud major leaguer gets it done in the SHOW not the minors hence “Major league stud”
i didnt say he was a stud, i just said that guys who bacame studs didnt show it at 22.
What number is Dan Giese?
Yu Davish you are wrong.. Santana to make the trade a bad no trade for the Yanks will have to pitch better then he has so far this yr.(which is far from bad) for at least 5 years.
His contract for the Yanks would be financial suicide…..
CC whom I hope they do not get would only cost picks, Santana would have cost at least 4 prospects and at least 2 top end prospects hughes and someone else….
I think Hughes will be a top end starter but I am far from a expert. I know one thing most pitchers take time and time is more then 10 stars… How is Cueto doing now??? The young pitcher who right now has had the best and easiest transition to success in the pros is Lincecum… He has been great but really throwing 96 at 170 pounds how long can he last????
The farnsworth experiment in the 8th is got to be coming to an end quickly, Joe isn’t stupid, he wants to win games.
This is the one spot where the managerial change has hurt the Yankees. Torre knew that Farnsworth wasn’t reliable and no short term success would change his mind. Girardi wanted to give him a fresh start and see for himself.
Girardi can learn, I heard him asked if he had any regrets so far and he said pitching to Manny. Just acknowledging that shows that he is learning.
Now’s the time to learn to push Kyle down a notch in the bullpen right now.
Who else is psyched that this David Ortiz called shot b.s. is now over? Thank goodness… though I feel bad for the sponsor
I just hope Hughes can stay on a diamond for more than 3 months thats all and also that “control” that he was notorious for in the minors didnt present itself up in the Bigs
Y’s Guy (ham fighter goes retro)
You did say Hughes was a stud, think before you type you might have to eat your words.
Jobamania! WooHoo!
Let’s go Joba! Just try and do your best.
More importantly-Just win the game Yankees!
couldnt disagree more about the called shot.
it was a tribute to babe ruth from mlb and the yankees shot themselves in the foot complaining about it.
the yankees crapped all over a tribute to (arguably) thier best player ever, thier biggest symbol and by extension, the house that ruth built.
“You did say Hughes was a stud, think before you type you might have to eat your words.”
No he didn’t. You may have read it that way, but that doesn’t make it true.
NO I am right if Santana pitches better than Hughes the next 5 years then it was a bad non-trade period there is a chance that Hughes will never be even a solid starter or a starter at all it seems like he takes one step forward and two steps back given Santana is on the decline but he is still a top 10 ML Starter and who cares about salary management sure doesnt I guarantee if the Yanks finish in 3rd place with 80 wins Hank is talking to C.C. agent the day after the W.S.
yeah! please quote where i said hughes was a stud.
btw, Yeah! please also state what other posting name you are using today.
Somewhere Some day Hank steinbrenner will lose his cool and throw 150 mil at someone and honestly I think Santana is better than Sabathia so if this money will eventually be thrown at some player why not the better player?
“who cares about salary management”
I care about contract management. Santana still has two more years on his deal after the 5 you mentioned. If he sucks during them…guess what, he’ll still be sitting in the rotation.
Also, you’re still ignoring the fact that the Yanks would need a CFer. For 2, 3 more years. Who’d you sign? There wasn’t anybody but Cory Patterson by the time the Twins stopped shopping the Yankee offers to Boston. Did you trade for someone? Who’d it cost? What are those players’ contributions over the next five years?
These things aren’t as simple as you think, no matter how much you might wish them to be.
“Somewhere Some day Hank steinbrenner will lose his cool and throw 150 mil at someone and honestly I think Santana is better than Sabathia so if this money will eventually be thrown at some player why not the better player?”
Because it also would have cost Phil Hughes and their starting CFer. Who would then need replacing. I realize that you’re ready to write off Hughes at 21, but most aren’t as foolish.
Also, most are willing to LOOK at the information and see that Santana had a precipitous drop in velocity over last season. That REALLY does not bode well for a 7 year unmoveable contract.
WHOZAT i was saying that Management doesnt care about the salary not who cares about salary management dont misquote me
im willing to admit that the santana non-trade could turn out to be a bad move. of course that is possible. of course its possible that hughes will turn out to be less than stellar.
but to say now that hughes wont become anything is as ridiculous as saying the santana contract was a good or bad trade for the mets or twins.
it wont be determined for years to come.
in the meantime, dissing our young pitchers after they’ve barely gotten thier feet wet is just laughable.
The fact is Hughes is hurt Kennedy is hurt and neither were good when they were here I say the Yanks do a knicks type salary cleansing and wait 5 years then we can get back into contention
“WHOZAT i was saying that Management doesnt care about the salary not who cares about salary management dont misquote me”
I didn’t misquote you. I quoted your words directly. Is it my fault that you can’t be bothered to use punctuation to make your thoughts more clear to others?
Im going to throw a curve ball to this discussion.
First off. The last rumor was Wang,Kennedy and Melky. NO THANKS!!
For the Santana lovers. What if we use less money to sign C.C. than it would to sign Johan and Hughes becomes a 3. Wang a 2 and C.C. a 1. Would that make the non trade better? I would think so. I would prefer to have a 1-2-3 in the rotation than a supposid 1(more like 2) that is 3 mph slower this year and is the next candidate for the pitcher in the homerun derby.
Get over it. Hes not coming and you will be thanking that no trade soon enough. When he’s getting shelled,throwing 89 and looking more like Chase Wright.Than the dominator.
The whole Joba mania stuff is getting to my nervs, I’m nervus for JOBA (am I crazy or what…?) I think they are starting him too soon, and against Doc Holliday yikes, let’s hear predictions on his stat line tonight, i would say about
4 IP 6H 3ER 3BB 5K, yankees loose 6-3 as the bats stay asleep from the long… flight from MIN
It seems like the Yanks are in a tough position typically young pitchers are developed on losing teams without all star hitters and big names the yanks are trying to win a division and develop young pitching honestly it seems like a logic that is failing also having young pitchers “getting their feet wet” with veterans surrounding them seems like a conflict of interest
For those with YES TV and a desire to see iy, they have a video piece on Austin Jackson coming up in a few minutes.
***to see it*** typo
Whozat you remind of another arrogant guy mike francesa sorry that my punctuation doesnt satisfy the intelligent minds in this discussion ill try and steer clear of not making myself clear
Sorry that I neglected to put a comma where it should have been I guess online discussion is taken a bit seriously
hughes had a 94 mph fast ball with movement and control
a 12-6 curve that he can put over the plate. his other pitches are average, but he also has “make up”. the whole world ranked him as the #1 prospect 2 years ago. i don’t think they are wrong about him.
this year, his fastball was around 91. something was wrong. it was disheartening to hear he was put on the dl for a “strain” because it sounded like BS. But when it turned out to be a fractured rib, i felt better about him.
kennedy is all about control. he’s going to get knocked around sometimes, but usually he will be about average as a starter. look at what the angels throw out there – no one with great stuff – but they know how to pitch and how to win… that’s what kennedy should be about.
and
throwing money at cc would be different than throwing money at johan. we’d have to give up prospects for johan and we MAY not have to for cc. thats a huge difference.
“It seems like the Yanks are in a tough position typically young pitchers are developed on losing teams without all star hitters and big names the yanks are trying to win a division and develop young pitching”
So…they should DFA all their big hitters and become a team that totally sucks? That would somehow help? Or maybe just not sign any talent for a while? They should have gone into the season with Molina as the starter, Eric Duncan as the 3B and Farnsworth as the closer? That would feel better to you?
your 5 year plan lost me. i was trying to engage you in conversation despite the fact that you are consistently the most negative poster on here (now that russ and mussinawhatever are gone).
Y’s guy I was being sarcastic on the 5 year plan and Whozat i didnt say the all stars should be designated that insane but young guys require patience and on a team with alot of aging guys there isnt much to go around thats all im trying to say
Santana’s e.r.a. this year 3.2. Rule of thumb is a 1 point conversion from n.l. to a.l. That would make it a 4.2.
Pettitte 4.21 and we are screaming at him on having an off year.
Give me our 1 yr 16 million lefty over a 7 year pitcher who’s arm is going to fall of by year 3. Oh and Pettitte has given up 4 fewer homers.
BTW Moose is at 4.26
Those numbers arent 20 mill ace like.
“Whozat you remind of another arrogant guy mike francesa sorry that my punctuation doesnt satisfy the intelligent minds in this discussion ill try and steer clear of not making myself clear”
I don’t understand…if you’re not posting to express your ideas and make yourself understood, why are you posting at all?
I remember in the off-season when Santana to the Yanks was being discussed Jorge was in the paper gushing about him i wonder if he regrets the non-trade he would never say but im sure he does
Perhaps Hughes complete and utter dominance of the minors can lend him the stud title?
I typically do make myself clear and the one time I dont my words get taken out of context sorry I felt a bit upset and everyone has the right to post
“Y’s Guy (ham fighter goes retro)
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:47 pm
btw, Yeah! please also state what other posting name you are using today.”
OK!!! what are you talking about dude?
Im sick of all this Joba talk. Its annoying to have to hear it debated whether or not he should start. The decision has been made so people (like Fatso and Fruitloops) should drop it.
I think we all got to stop ragging on Cashman. I found something out recently which changed my view. 2005 was the year the Yankees changed scouting and drafting wise and that was the year Cashman became the head of the whole scouting department or something like that. Since then, we have complied a lot in our farm system so really, the whole young player stuff is really not his fault. Not using some guys to get a decent setup man however, is totally his fault.
“young guys require patience and on a team with alot of aging guys there isnt much to go around thats all im trying to say”
So, now you think that the Yankees’ problem is that the veteran hitters are upset that they’re trying to develop young pitching? Hey, here’s a thought…if they were hitting like they should, the team would be in a much better place right now.
Look, in terms of developing the young pitchers, things have gone literally almost as poorly as possible. Hughes and Kennedy being THIS atrocious and then getting hurt was a pretty low-likelihood scenario. Just as unlikely as both of them being stellar. The only thing that could make it worse would be Joba getting hurt too. The team was designed to out-hit their struggles. It was assumed they’d be inconsistent, but they’d average out to about league average or a little worse. That didn’t happen. But it was a reasonable bet to make. It just didn’t work out. The jury is far from out on these kids, though. The alternative was continuing to get locked into looooong expensive deals and give up some of the guys that might let you start to build a team that is young and no longer beholden to contractual obligations. And that’s just not appealing.
great night for baseball! new york gets to see jobamania and pedro’s return, staggered so we can watch both! as much as i hate the mets, im really looking forward to watching pedro too! (plus i added him to my fantasy team)
Also, clearly Joba being a starter is more valuable. No reliever will ever receive a contract over 100 mil but a starter can.
“typically young pitchers are developed on losing teams ”
The times have changed. Teams are no longer grooming a player and giving them up to the richer teams. See what the Rays are doing. Now you have to build within and fill the gaps with free agents or trades that are missing. I have to admit. I miss the days of using K.C.,Pitt and Tampa as our aaaa affiliates.
I feel the Yankees are falling in love with every minor league pitcher they have lately and that isnt a good way to operate talent should be judged fairly and every guy with an ERA under 4 in A ball shouldnt be “the next big thing” Joba and Hughes are the real deal Kennedy I feel was thrust into that trio he isnt on the same level(stuff wise) as the other two
“In case you spent the weekend with Osama bin Laden in his cave enjoying the company of goats, Joba Chamberlain is starting for the first time in the majors tonight”
Ya know what, I bet Osama in his cave somewhere probably knows Joba is starting for the first time tonight too.
Everywhere I turn all I hear is Joba Joba Joba.
Oy
Pedro is the ma, I wish him well.
“Not using some guys to get a decent setup man however, is totally his fault.”
Show me a team that’s trading decent setup men. The way to get setup guys is to throw a bunch of promising arms against the wall and see what sticks. Girardi has taken one interesting arm and wasted it as a long man for some reason, and won’t let anyone else earn their way past Farnsworth. Not really sure how that’s Cash’s fault.
At least with the struggles of Kennedy and hughes we had the option of sending them down and we dont pay very much for them. A free agent costs a lot of cash and when they suck we still pay, young guys, if they dont turn out good, they get minimum and very little arbitration
CB,
I find it interesting that Buchholz has not pitched great thus far this season and is still regarded by most, and rightly so, as an excellent starter in the future. If you went off the media alone, you’d never know Buchholz had struggled at all.
Hughes, on the other hand, is being doubted by many.
I guess a no-hitter against a AAA Orioles team for one, and trade talks with a premier SP in Santana for the other, leads to different sets of expectations.
man++
“I feel was thrust into that trio he isnt on the same level(stuff wise) as the other two”
I guarantee you that the Yankees do not view Kennedy in the same light as the other two. The media and fandom might, but I PROMISE that Ian Kennedy is not as untouchable as the other two guys. If someone wants to give me Xavier Nady for Ian Kennedy in a month, I do that in less than half a second.
That’s crazy to send Patterson down.
That’s bordering on retarded.
I agree Whozat but I believe there is an underlying selfishness that the vets have that they want to win now and that means a Santana or a Sabathia not waiting 2-3 years for Hughes or Kennedy by then half of these guys are gone do you think they care about the Yankees beyond their contract I highly doubt it
Many Sox fans (and I imagine Yankee haters everywhere) are having a laugh about the “Jobamania” thing. Deep down the knowledgeable Sox fans know that this is just one start, though they hope he struggles.
But the media and hype machines are at full force so be prepared for chaos this week if Joba doesn’t throw 7 scoreless innings.
I’m sure troll activity on the blog will hinge on Joba’s start tonight as well.
Making friends again, whozat?
Actually, I take that back. I just looked at his career numbers and they’re only OK. I’d still like him…maybe I build a deal around Kennedy and someone else for Nady and Marte.
Yeah!
you called me out for saying something i didnt say. where is the quote where i said hughes is a stud.
also seems interesting that Yeah! shows up for one post saying i should eat my words, then disappears, my suspicion is that its one of the other posters who just changed his posting name to knock me.
but you know what, save it b/c i dont care.
“I believe there is an underlying selfishness that the vets have that they want to win now and that means a Santana or a Sabathia not waiting 2-3 years for Hughes or Kennedy by then half of these guys are gone do you think they care about the Yankees beyond their contract I highly doubt it”
Ok. So? You think they’re not bothering to hit because of it? You think that the organization should make short-sighted moves over and over because those guys want to win now? How do you ever get out of that cycle?
Kennedy’s have to rebuild his trade value by coming back and wrecking AAA again, though.
Kennedy’s numbers last year in the minors were better than Joba’s. The couple of appearances last year were also good. Cant blame them for thinking they had another gem. Who knows if he can turn it around. He could wind up being the next Maddox or the next trading chip.
“If someone wants to give me Xavier Nady for Ian Kennedy in a month, I do that in less than half a second.”
Is that a joke?
The Yanks don’t need Nady. what’s his career OPS? isn’t this a guy who typically hits .280, 15HR, with a horrific OBP?
I’d rather not sell low (in this case the lowest possible) on our prospects for slightly above average bats.
I think that they are less confident playing beyond a Kennedy than a solid veteran and it does affect their hitting when they are down 5 runs in the 2nd
I don’t think playing in the NL east would lower your ERA by a point from the AL Central. Plus, I’m pretty sure he usually has better 2nd halves than 1st halves.
I’m glad the Yankees didn’t trade Hughes for him, but thats not really an accurate look at the numbers.
The biggest difference with Buchholz and Hughes is the team they play for. When its a RS prospective player, its all good, when a Yankee they are torn apart.
Take the Joba talk. All the fist pump stuff, while we are seeing it from starters quite a lot this year, though they are on other teams, and established.
Buchholz is being worked on to change his arm slot. The problem is he isn’t as effective because his fastball is straight and the league is getting on to him. Yet, that is a taboo subject with the media.
Lester’s no hitter is still being talked about. How often do you see that? Granted he had cancer and its a nice story, but it gets over blown because he is a RS player and it gets all the coverage on the second RS network, ESPN.
you know what, stuff happens with prospects
2 years ago hughes was #1 and no one knew of joba
now it’s all about joba and hughes all of a sudden sucks
bottom line – no onw knows
but i believe in the franchise
I suspect that Joba will pitch well but if Halladay pitches like he is capable then we could be looking at a 2 hour 3 hit shutout
Ian Kennedy is still just 23. How many pitchers excelled at this age? For every pitcher who succeeded in MLB who was great at 23, I can give you several who were not.
Kennedy seems to be the type of pitcher who will improve with experience more than most.
“Aren’t they going to present Joba the CY young, MVP and rookie of the year awards tonight?
Of course, they will be renaming the CY young the ‘Joba’…”
Boy, it is just -killing- the rest of the baseball world that the Yankees got themselves a dominant young pitcher. You almost feel sorry for them.
Anyone hear the Met fan on M&MD today that made the “Joba Koufax” joke? Aren’t Met fans the ones who were declaring Jose Reyes the best shortstop in baseball a year ago?
yu darvish
Everything you say is negative dude……is everything going so wrong in your life???
I doubt Giese will put up all 0′s and Halladay elevates it against the Yanks pitches even better than usual I was at a game 2 years ago he hurled a 3 hit shutout 1 run gem at the stadium i was on the train at 9:30 he will likely outpitch the Joba/Giese combo
“I don’t think playing in the NL east would lower your ERA by a point from the AL Central. Plus, I’m pretty sure he usually has better 2nd halves than 1st halves.”
Im not 100% sure on this and wish CB or someone else could jump in. But iv been told to use 1 earned run extra in changing leagues. Due to the dh and usually better over all hitters in the a.l. What difference would you think it is to go from the nl east to al east? Or nl to al in general?
* not a shutout but only 1 run sry
Dude im being realistic the Yanks have given me no reason to be a line tower its easy to say Joba throws 5 scoreless and Giese completes a solid game but how likely is that to happen plus its hardly pessimism Halladay is a great pitcher who pitches even better against the yanks its just fact
JOBA DABBA DO!!!
i have said a few times here that i think they are rushing joba to the rotation too fast, even though i think they are doing the right thing by moving him to the rotation.
that being said, i am FIRED UP to watch him pitch tonight. im managing my expectations, i dont expect the yankees to win tonight with dan geise pitching behind joba and with halliday on the bump for toronto.
but damn, it is exciting to see joba take the ball to start his career as a starter!
LETS GO YANKEES!!!!!
“Santana’s e.r.a. this year 3.2. Rule of thumb is a 1 point conversion from n.l. to a.l. That would make it a 4.2.
Pettitte 4.21 and we are screaming at him on having an off year.
Give me our 1 yr 16 million lefty over a 7 year pitcher who’s arm is going to fall of by year 3. Oh and Pettitte has given up 4 fewer homers.
BTW Moose is at 4.26
Those numbers arent 20 mill ace like.”
Who made up that rule of thumb? That is the dumbest thing I ever heard. Obviously the AL is better than the NL but not a whole run/game better. If Santana is still a Twin but pitching the same, he’s probably at 3.75
CB -
I agree that the more interested in minor league baseball the fanbase gets, the more knowledgeable and useful the draft information becomes.
I think it’s great that the Yankees have a team righ there in Trenton — it’s so much better than when it was a Red Sox affiliate. It’s great to go to the minor league games — they’re fun, family friendly and inexpensive. If you do some homework (read this blog, that is), you will even know who the players are and what some of the expectations are for them within the Yankees organization. As prices for the major league team increase, and the more press the minor league players get, the more people will go out to the minor league parks. I think it’s a great deal. We’re even planning to see the Charlotte team play in Lakewood later this summer (about 35 minutes from home), and if the timing works out, a game out in SWB. For our family it just started out as a rather inexpensive way to spend a summer afternoon or evening, but the more I learn about the young players, the more I want to go see them play.
Taking a deep breath before this game begins. As much as I know what this is in terms of the “Joba Plan,” I’m still excited and nervous for him.
whozat -
I couldn’t agree with you more in terms of “whatever could go wrong did go wrong” in the Yankees plans for Hughes & Kennedy.
“Santana’s e.r.a. this year 3.2. Rule of thumb is a 1 point conversion from n.l. to a.l. That would make it a 4.2.”
As of today the league average ERA in the AL is 4.06
As of today the league average ERA in the NL???
The very same 4.06
Jays also have allowed the least runs in the Majors
Sometimes you just have to run with things for a bit before you see what you actually have. Its rare when young arms can perform well from their first time out. Many who do seem to fall off quickly.
I wonder if they will run a story for the next month if Lester falls off to terrible numbers after his no hitter. My guess is no.
Over under Joba Fist Pumps. 2
I cant wait til Humberto Sanchez n Dellin Betances are in AA or AAA those guys are talented but Betances needs to fix his mechanics
In 2007, the average NL ERA was 4.33. It was 4.47 in the AL
It’s nowhere near the gap being suggested here.
I don’t get the decision to send down Patterson at all. The guy was stellar in Spring Training. Giese is 30 years old with one year of big league experience and has fringy stuff.
This team’s infatuation with mediocre relief pitchers is frustrating.
UNDER I say no Joba fist pumps hes leaving after the 4th I cant imagine a fist pumping scenario in the middle of the game
Fredo,
I was not asking what the average e.r.a. is in both leagues. I was trying to find out what difference there was for a pitchers e.r.a is when he switches leagues to the A.L.?
Like when Clemens and Johnson cameback to the a.l.
Wow, I’m getting nervous about tonight.
Does anyone no if Harlan Chamberlain will be at the game if he is talk about pressure on Joba
*know
Ok let’s temper our expectations, the Yankees should lose tonight facing Halladay. Hopefully it won’t be the 8th inning when they lose it or Fatso and Fruitloops will be on number 11 on the annoyance scale.
So anticipate the worst, but the best is yet to come.
“Is that a joke?”
I recanted when I looked more at his numbers, yes. I still like Nady as a complementary piece, though. If you look, once he left Petco (which depresses offense quite a bit), his numbers got a lot more solid. AND his splits against lefties are good as well. And he could spot in for either Abreu or Giambi against lefties, as he’s played 1B before.
If another team values him as a good starting OFer, then he’ll be too pricey. But, if teams look at him like a bit-above-average guy and make offers accordingly…I’d look at him.
I think that Nady/Marte would help this team a lot.
Harlan won’t be there, it was hard enough for him to get to Minny the last few days.
Thanx Jeff
This game only broadcasted on YES?
anybody got any inside info on why carl crawford is not starting for tampa tonight in boston? he didnt start sunday (came in as a late replacement) and they had yesterday off.
“I don’t get the decision to send down Patterson at all. The guy was stellar in Spring Training. Giese is 30 years old with one year of big league experience and has fringy stuff.
This team’s infatuation with mediocre relief pitchers is frustrating.”
Patterson ALSO has fringy stuff. They need a long man to shadow Joba. Patterson’s not that guy. Giese had a terrible outing the other day, really awful…and that brought his AAA ERA up above 2 for the first time in ages. He has been ANNIHILATING AAA, like Rasner was. I they need a long guy, he’s been pitching great all season…I figure he deserves a shot.
S.o.S 27 …… There’s a body of thought that the offensive dominance previously enjoyed by the AL is switching towareds the NL (even w/o the DH). For example, I believe that there are barely 10 .300 hitters (eligible for the top 10) in the AL.
I have typically spouted the axiom about AL offensive dominance, but we might be in the middle of a sea change. It bears watching ….. it’s no longer a given that Santana is benefitting by the move to the NL.
Rasner has been Solid no run support though if the Yanks hitting with RISP is like it was in Minny they will certainly lose
“Kennedy’s numbers last year in the minors were better than Joba’s”
This isn’t true. His ERA was and his WHIP was slightly better, but Joba’s K rate and K:BB ratio were far superior. Their BB rate was similar.
NO MORE DOUBLE PLAYS
You know what the biggest joke of the day is. LaTroy Hawkins hit that batter in Balitmore I think almost 3 weeks ago and STILL MLB has yet to hear his appeal. You cant tell me that Bob Watson or one of his underlings doesnt have time for an hour max hearing over the past 3 weeks. Totally absurd
As of today, NL teams are averaging 4.6 runs a game; AL teams 4.41
Last year it was AL’s 4.9 to NL’s 4.71, so the difference is the same, just in the other direction
MLB.com refers to Masterson as a future star on their front page. I wonder if they said the same about Ian when he posted great numbers at the end of last year…
harlan will not be there tonight. Sanchez better be on the yanks or in the high minors way before Betances else he is a big flop. Sanchez should be way way further along then Betances who is a long term project….
Giese vs Paterson is not the big issue it is kyle and hawkins and those guys………..
Brian,
Its just hard to believe. Being that the pitcher faces a dh in the a.l. Instead of a pitcher. Thanks for understanding my question. I was getting frustrated thinking of a way to ask it.
I wonder if Britton packed his bags and left to Scranton thinking that he was the one going down? You cant blame him if he did.
MLB suspensions appeals work slower than Steve Trachsel
“anybody got any inside info on why carl crawford is not starting for tampa tonight in boston?”
First news story on their site.
http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/n.....38;c_id=tb
whozat,
masterson has been only avg. in the minors this yr… why worry about the sux bias who cares….
What the weather looking like for tomorrow night. A sales rep is taking me to the game and we have seats 3 rows behind the Yankee dugout. It would suck if the game gets rained out.
Whatever happened to Homer Bailey I know hea nd Hughes were being discussed as the top 2 prospects in baseball last year is he in the BIGS?
“This isn’t true. His ERA was and his WHIP was slightly better, but Joba’s K rate and K:BB ratio were far superior. Their BB rate was similar.”
So you wouldnt say that he had a better record in the minors? Even though his e.r.a. and WHIP are better? I would think those stats would trump the k/bb ratio.
I love Lincecum he reminds me of Peavy
whozat, thanks, i checked thier site on sunday after he didnt start that night (he’s on my fantasy team) and there was nothing there.
Harlan IS at Yankee Stadium tonight
And for whoever asked earlier, Giese is wearing # 38
SoS: Another thing to consider is that the DH position this year just isn’t as good as normal. Or at least, marquee names like Hafner and Ortiz aren’t slugging like they used too.
bailey is expected to make his 1st mlb start of the season thursay vs. the phillies.
Jobamania is about to begin!!!!
Let’s Go Yanks!!!!!
SoS …. Blargh’s 6:52 post states that AL scoring is down by .5 runs per game, and that NL teams are scoring .2 runs per game more than the AL.
Not trying to be controversial here, but is it possible that PEDs were more prevalent in the AL (hence the greater offense), and that the New World Order (no PEDs) has had more of an impact on the AL? I’m searching for reasons why the DH league is scoring less runs than the league where the pitcher hits.
Blargh,
I guess you have a point there. Hell. Micah Owings would be dh for most teams.
Thanks Y’s guy
Nice job on ESPNews, Pete
kay just said, “dad’s here again” i guess he meant harlan!
Alright everyone enjoy the game GO JOBA
good luck big guy. make us proud.
SP Are you sure I read in the paper that he would not be able to make the trip after travelling to Minny.
i guess ‘the stranger’ really turned out to be a good nickname for patterson.
Joba looks in the zone
I don’t know about you folks, but I’m pretty excited.
Reporting from section 290. The stadium is rockin! They were playing Paradise City by Guns n Roses when Joba walked out from the bullpen.
For those asking about whether Harlan Chamberlain is at the game, yes he is.
Oh Canada I wish I knew the words the Jays look like they dont even know
Great to see Harlan there!!!
Pete-
Was it planned to have your phone interview on ESPN end right when the beginning of “Oh Canada” was starting?
Except I was expecting to hear the Winnebago Nation anthem too. Already a letdown.
Harlan is a good dad for a guy with some serious medical problems he is at alot of jobas games
Well, the future is starting tongith so hopefully this will prompt the Yankees to put together a 6 of 7, or 8 of 10 win streak, not giving games away like they did in Baltimore and Minnesota.
Would be great to see 3 game sweep of Toronto and/or a weekend sweep of KC.
By the way, proof that baseball makes no sense and any predictions on turnarounds, success, or otherwise are pointless, HOW THE HELL DOES JESSE LITSCH HAVE A BETTER RECORD THAN HALLADAY???????
Are any other Yankee fans so sick of the Joba-hype that they hope he gets shelled and knocked out after 2 innings???
I hope that happens and the bullpen holds strong and the Yanks pull out a win.
Joba Time!!!!!
Here we go!!!!!
at least we’ve gotten past the point where people boo the canadian national anthem just because they’re roooting against the blue jays. that was so classless.
I’m getting chills
Would also be nice to score lotsa runs and win the game
Susan Waldman’s voice makes my lunch start to come up…uugghhh.
S.O.S. you sticking around for the game?
This game needs to be under 3.5 hours, I have to vote tonight!
Are any other Yankee fans so sick of the Joba-hype that they hope he gets shelled and knocked out after 2 innings???
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is just crazy talk.
i had to stand up for the first pitch, i was so fired up!
Lets Go Yankees!!!!!
fist pump #1!
ooooooohhhhhh! goosebumps
Remember-whatever happens tonight, let’s have some patience with the Joba.
He looks way TOO excited
A great game tonight. Halliday is the kind of pitcher that Joba could develop into.
Baseball is a wonderful sport
JOBA got screwed on that call
He doesn’t have it, he doesn’t have it, he shook off Molina and the pitch count is already high and he walked the first batter, OMG, I was WRONG WRONG WRONG, he needs to be in the bullpen. Panic city.
Molina needs to hold on to that third strike.
Well at this rate all this hype is going to lead to a 70 pitch 2 inning outing.
over 10% of his alloted pitches on the first batter
We all feel Halliday will win.
Let’s hope Joba doesn’t get hurt and pitch not so badly
Molina and Joba dont get along Moeller shouldve started!
nice curve!
Walk city
That’s it Joba!!!!!
Let’s Go Yanks!!!!!
I’m actually more interested to see Geise pitch… C’mon Joba get outta there!!! LOL.
Umpires are out to screw Joba tonight
nice BALK
come on joba baby
I hate Rios
When is Posada back???
This is pathetic that Molina can’t give Joba any sort of break. You have this guy on the mound who’s probably unbelievably nervous and Molina looks like he’s sleeping. Shame on him.
Uh-oh, CB Buckner is the first base umpire. Means he’ll be behind the plate for this series. Let the theatrics begin…
dropped 3rd strike passed ball
not good to make him throw extra pitches on his first outing Molina!!
Yeah Molina should be ashamed of his catching this inning.
Wow. That 1-0 slider to Rolen might have been the nastiest pitch I’ve seen by anyone all year (Yankee-fan blinders aside)
He’s already at 22 pitches
What a cheap run. Molina really needs to hold on to the ball. He dropped strike 3 and then the pass ball.
joba the nibbler- interesting
We get it, Kay… he is on a pitch count. You sound like a parrot.
i could be wrong but i think the ump rotation goes 1st to 2nd to 3rd to home. this is a 3 game series, so that means cb doesnt get home this series.
He may go 3 innings at this point.
Real smart to punt the season by having no backup reliever for him.
Molina needs to be designated hes catching the fastball like a peewee leaguer
there they go again with the bad defense. killing our pitchers. Molina’s past ball and giambi’s non attempt at a weak ground ball
30 pitch innings.
Maybe 2 innings from him.
now we all going to blame it on molina if Joba loses….stop making up scuses.
Thanks Y’s Guy, that’s good news, but I’ll miss the show behind the plate.
Dang it
Y’s Guy – check that – 2 innings max – already at 30 pitches.
it might be tough to distinguish the trolls from the clueless idiots tonight
So they gave up the season for this?
Did they tell Joba that he can spread his pitches over multiple innings?
I guess we are all happy about the team throwing in the towel in 2008 at this point.
Will K
This season was “punted” long before the Joba decision. Enjoy a rebuild year with lots of streaks, up and down.
Jobas getting SQUEEZED clearly anti-yankee umpriring
C’mon Jobba!!!!!
as long as the strike zone is that small for halladay, fine.
Joba’s getting squeezed, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him struggle his first few times through the rotation.
Remember Hank’s comment this year as this develops:
“He’s our Josh Beckett.”
Hank really is an idiot. Like Joba needs that pressure.
You got to love us playing for ’09 the same week Ortiz goes down for the yr and Dice K goes out with shoulder problems.
Umpire rotation goes clockwise.
Plate umpire is always at third the next game.
That said, this is painful to watch.
Joba’s mentality in the bullpen seemed quite often to get the swinging strikeout every time he got to two strikes. That has to change. Pronto.
way too many wasted pitches. he’s got a fastball. why he’s not using it more i have no idea.
Wow…..am I hearing actual civility thus far? Not one call to return him to the bullpen, AAA, or trade him for Sabathia?
C’mon, Joba. We’re behind you.
come on Joba. 1 more out
You can do this
Christ can this inning END!
A solid 2 inning start. So we give away the year for this? He was a dominant reliever and we ruin the best thing about the club this year? Why couldn’t we wait a yr?
To be fair, the Blue Jays are doing exactly what they should do. Not swing.
I think he’s stretching himself out
all our pitchers are adept in throwing balls… but they theselves have NO BALLS…. pathetic….
somebody’s having a little hissy fit!!!
Joba gets out of the jam!!!!
Now let’s get to Halladay early!!!!
Go Yanks!!!!
What a disaster
man, if he’s going to throw 40 pitches an inning, maybe they should just let him build up his count in the 8th. good lord.
the kid’s gotta be fighting nerves, and he’s getting squeezed, but ouch.
Joba should have been the long man.
What a disgraceful performance that was.
I wonder if Bucholtz’s first start was as bad as this.
terrible inning – but only one run.. so all in all it’s not that bad
And that 99mpg pitch is what separates him from Hughes and lolKennedy.
Leiter’s right, the Jays are oing to take as many pitches as possible knowing he’s limited to 70.
Come on bats, pick him up!!
Get to work bats
He’s 22-23 years old. This is his first start. No matter how he looked in the bullpen, this is going to be a process. This is why we have to continue, as fans, to be patience.
Someone metioned the word “punting the season.” “Punting” on this team would be giving up every time one of these kids struggle.
what a bunch of cr@p calls by the home plate j@ck@$$ ! So now he is going to be squeezed like a TOTAL ROOKIE Pitcher ? Complete BS !:-(
by terrible i really mean “not what we all expected”
So Giese can go 8 strong right?
if he can’t locate his fastball , he’s not going to be ready to start. what’s with all the breaking balls?
just total stupidity because of the pitch count limitations.
38 pitches. But who’s counting?
Halladay only throws 10 pitches in this inning guaranteed were looking at Giese v.s. Doc Halladay
Considering a tight strike zone, a questionable balk, and a passed ball… could have been much worse.
“all our pitchers are adept in throwing balls… but they theselves have NO BALLS…. pathetic….”
That’s not true. Ask Farnsworth.
screw that ump,,,really…total cr@p !
Well, it seems Dan Giese may pitch more innings than Joba.
His walks in the pen this year concerned me. The fact that they often seemed to come on deep counts means that its fixable, but he needs to make a mental adjustment. Joba has good enough stuff that even if he pitches to contact, he will get lots of swings and misses. But trying to make major league batters look foolish by K-ing on a 2-2 or 3-2 pitch by chasing out of the zone should not be a philosophy. With Joba’s stuff, it’ll happen. But he needs to be as happy with a groundout as a strikeout, or he’ll continue to walk people and pile up high pitch counts.
Having him do this at the major league level was stupid
He should be stretching out in AAA with no pressure where he can work on his other pitches and delivery
JOHNNY!!!
Great way to start Damon!!!!
GO YANKS!!!!
The Yanks will find a way to not score Johnny lol
“To be fair, the Blue Jays are doing exactly what they should do. Not swing.”
I was thinking the same thing. The Blue Jays knew he was on a pitch count and worked it. The way the Yanks used to do to get a starting pitcher out of the game.
Its amusing on here already, haha.
good lord people..
I see the circus is in town tonight, as all the clowns are out tonight. This is his first Major League start, some patience is in order. He managed to get out of a bases loaded jam. Good enough for me.
You know what, Joba might have had trouble that inning, but how many hard hit balls were there? I counted 0. Halladay gives up a hard hit ball in the first at bat… So even though Joba had trouble, he was not getting slapped around.
I thought we were safe…..then came Will K.
I absolutely agree, Will. We should keep him in the bullpen in order to protect leads and get us to that first-round loss in the playoffs, since it’s so much fun to lose in the first round of the playoffs year after year.
The comments are seriously sad. He struggled in one inning, and we’re throwing away the season now. Come on. A little perspective people. He walked three, balked, watched Molina give up a passed ball, and watched a fister go past Giambi and gave up one run. The sky is not falling. Let’s make the blog enjoyable even if it is sometimes painful to watch.
Damon!!
Evan a sac fly and it’s tied
Yanks face the Jays top pitching in this series. Wonderful opportunity to see what they are made of.
atta boy Johnny
It is punting the season when you take the one bit of strength and move it and have nothing to replace it. He could easily have been integrated into the rotation next yr after giving 120 innings out of the pen this year.
A desperate panic move moving him. Blame Cashman for not getting a reliever or another starter.
inconsistent ump….how is that first pitch to jeter a ball and the second one a strike? that was the same pitch!
I’m still wondering what it was that he did to get the balk called.
Remember, anything short of a 6 inning shutout was going to be met by nay-sayers.
The idiots and trolls will be out in full force. ESPN will spend too much time debating this and the yankee-haters will jump all over it too.
Joba is in a can’t-win situation tonight for many.
Me, I’ll take a Yankee win and no injuries.
The reason you guys are unhappy is because your expectations are way too high.
Halliday is one of the tops pitchers in baseball. This is just Day 1 for Joba.
Yeah people, he had trouble during that inning, but come on, when you put your stud “defensive” catcher behind the plate you don’t expect him to give you bellow par defense in the first inning at the WORST possible time.
Nice job JETE!!!!!!!
And Jorge if we got Santana like we should we wouldn’t need him in the rotation til 2009 and he got pitch the 7-8 like Rivera in 1996. And he could be a starter next season.
Why rush him? Why throw away this season? And yes it is thrown away for his development as a starter when there was simply no need to rush it.
Wow people need to relax here.
Yikes, the kids not allowed to be a little bit nervous?
Damn guys take a breath, walk away from the blog and relax.
Exciting night. Hopefully the butterflys are gone
We really blaming the ump for him walking 3 guys and giving up a run and throwing 40 pitches when his pitch count is 65??
God damn it, are you kidding? That’s disgraceful that Jeter didn’t get Damon in there.
I’m going to go nuts if we can’t drive this run in.
lead off triple wont get scored only this team
Yanks have to get some runs in
they are sad. lead off triple and they can’t score him.
……………..
is this really happening…again?
sad, this is sad too watch
and it aint the first time.
“And Jorge if we got Santana like we should we wouldn’t need him in the rotation til 2009 and he got pitch the 7-8 like Rivera in 1996. And he could be a starter next season.”
You’re an idiot. He can’t be in the bullpen all year if you want him to start in 2009. He’ll be in the same innings limit conundrum like he (and phil and ian) is this year.
C’mon A-Rod!!!!!
GET THIS RUN IN!!!!
Are they kidding? Do they want to make it as difficult for Joba as possible by not getting this run in? Maybe next inning Molina can drop a few more strike 3′s and let some balls get by him so we can really test Joba.
oh boy here we go…. Alex…don’t do it. Don’t let happen.
I think eventually he’ll be a top flight starter but why mess with what was working this year?
We seriously went into the season with Mussina and 2 rookies in the rotation. That’s a joke. And say Kennedy and Hughes don’t get hurt. Do they still do this? It screams panic. Because no way were they going to have 3 rooks on limits in a rotation.
Arod please get him in
Terrible at-bats by Jeter and Abreu. If they don’t score the leadoff triple, then they deserve to be at the bottom of the standings.
Yu what was your previous name, russ m?
Don’t be the negative annoying guy on the blog. Go on a Blue Jay blog if you want to do that.
I’m so sick of these idiots that make in their mission in life here to whine with every post they make.
What is constructive about that?
To the people that are saying to leave Joba in the pen and turn him into a starter next year…
You’d be in the same situation next year. He needs to get to an innings limit to stretch him out to a starters level. What relievers are pitching 120 innings?
What a f’in joke. This offense sucks.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????????????????????
what a disgrace I would have gotten that run in Derek Jeter and Bobby Abreu n A ROD cant! ridiculous
Telling statistic. Arod batting .211 with RISP
How much run support will Joba be given ?
Pete, that he’s maintaining his velocity through 40 pitches is nothing to cheer about. What matters is when he gets to 75 or 80 pitches. He maxed out on that pitch to Barajas, through everything behind it. That’s all well and good, as long as you pick your spots. To do the alternative is to open the door to injuries (ask Phil and Ian.
This is pathetic. Halladay’s great, but this team has no business calling itself a contender if they can’t score a man from third with no outs.
Angel,
that is what has become of the game-threads.
Francis…he wasn’t going to throw 120 innings this year. Who was the last Yankees reliever to throw that many innings? Remember the year everyone laughed that Torre pitched Quantrill every day? He didn’t throw 120 innings that year. Not even close.
Give the guy time. It’s June. They didn’t hit him hard. Hge just didn’t throw strikes. Please relax. The panic is making people look stupid.
Ouch, thats still gonna leave a mark.
man. there’s putrid, there’s pathetic, and then there’s the 2008 yankee offense. that’s just embarrassing.
If you can’t score ‘em, getting hit is just as good in my book
it is just asking for trouble calling for a 3-2 curve when joba doesn’t know if he can command it.
he should be throwing mostly fastballs for strikes. if they hit it ,they hit it.
that’s the only way to keep his pitch count down.
DUDE this has always been my name and im not pessimistic this offense blows
Oh jesus, a “we should have gotten Santana” reference. Are we really digging up that rotting carcass again?
We threw away this season five years ago. We threw it away when we continued to think players with names like Jaret Wright, Carl Pavano, Kyle Farnsworth, Jason Giambi, etc., were the answer. Now we’re doing the right thing, Will, and you’re either going to have to put up with it or do like half the fans did in ’86, which is they found someone else to root for.
btw, tie ball game. GO YANKS!!!!
At least here comes our hottest hitter. Let’s hope we can get the run in.
YAY GODZILLA
Matsui the Man !!!!!!!!
c’mon hideki, bail us out!
YEAH BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matsui. Thank. GOD.
wow. that is how you play baseball.
Godzilla delivers!!!!!
only in new york can a jap pick up an indian
Smart move putting him in the rotation at this point. Decimates the pen this year. Why even sign A-Rod and Posada and Rivera if you were going to put 3 22 yr olds in the rotation along with a 40 yr old shot Mussina? Why even bring back pettitte?
If they were going to break this thing down at least go all the way
Matsui!!!!! Atta boy!
thank you matsui
GODZILLA DELIVERS
Nice, Hideki… just what the Doctor ordered…
I LOVE THAT GUY!
Ron,
what’s pathetic? how about you saying they couldn’t get a run in from third before the inning was over, and then cleaning the egg off of your face?
Matsui is one of the few bright spots for this team, lately.
Hideki!
don’t forget to vote for matsui as the DH in the all star. damn shame all them red sox will be voted in.
That was HUGE Matsui is having a good year
I have never seen that in my life.
This is what we have to do !!!!!
Thank goodness we still have the spare part some wanted to trade to San Francisco.
Thank goodness we still have the spare part some wanted to trade to San Francisco.
Giambino!!!!
Nice seeing these guys pick up Joba.
Thank you Francis of Long Island, it would have seemed cold and empty on this board if someone hadn’t made a comment such as yours.
Matsui’s been the best hitter on this team this year, bar none. It seems like he’s making a lot more hard contact than in years past. Wonder what his K/AB ratio is.
After watching Hughes and Kennedy stink it up who doesn’t want Santana here? maybe we would actually be over 500 with Wang and Santana and Pettite starting.
Matsui with the clutch RBI. And a big RBI for Giambi and the Yanks take the lead off Halliday.
Did i hear a ‘Matsui for MVP chant start up’?
Keep up the negativity boys, it’s working.
Giambi actually feeds the ball through the hole.
Giambi probably said there I’m going to give a little boost to Joba. If there was a time to do that he picked the right one.
THAT’S WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT – go against that shift and poke it that way (not that that was poked, it was hit pretty well).
Hells yeah stache!
GIAMBINO!!!!
HOLY CRAP! Did I just see Giambi go the other way?????
And Joba has his first big league lead.
BIG BIG PROPS for Big G going the other way with runners in scoring position!
something i’ve been bitching about with him all year.
OH MY GOD! Giambi PURPOSELY hit to the left side!
WOW! He went teh other way purposefully! Way to go Giambi! Gotta love those contract years! He actually did go the other way! Someone youtube that!
Did you see the size of that hole at short for Giambi. My God
I love these two-out RBI.
Kay’s right whats up with Cano not taking a pitch?
also a nice rest for joba, i think we see the real joba this inning.
Oh Cano, will you ever get going?
Giambino!!
Is it just me or is this ump really inconsistent
It must be because it’s a CONTRACT YEAR!
Tell me please, which coach is responsible for telling Cano to TAKE SOME PITCHES!
This guy sees an average of 2 1/2 pitches per at-bat, and KILLS first innings rallys like it’s his job.
Jesus, Cano is so horrible. Another month of this and the Yankees would have to start looking at other options.
Cano baby..what the frack
Matsui is why writers shouldn’t judge GM’s.
Robbie needs to take a pitch. If he didn’t swing at all, it would have at least took 3 pitches for him to get out.
Everyone, just ignore Will K. We’ve heard this garbage before – if we wanted to hear more of it, we’d listen to M&MD.
If someone can’t get why Joba’s starting, they’ll never get it.
There is an aggressive hitter but then theres richie sexson cano is playing like the latter
girardi needs to tell fine cano 10,000 dollars everytime he swings at the first pitch. And if that don’t do it, make him do 10,000 pushups instead.
larry bowa would have kicked him in the arse by now. Oh BOWA WherE aree youuuu!!??!
Cano definitely needs to work on plate discipline….
BUT
It’s more acceptable against a strike-thrower like Halladay.
Still, he needs to pick it up soon.
great patience from Robinson. he needs a lobotomy..
he is killing them… Giambi has turned it around but cano is a mental midget..
REMEMBER THIS DAY! Giambi hits to the left side – June 3rd 2008, 7:41PM EDT!!!
maybe the yankees should start fining Cano every time he swings at the first pitch
No matter how much some of you explain pitch counts to the panicked they don’t seem to get it.
Why is that? Is the concept of needing him to pitch 140 innings this year so foreign to you.
I’m asking because it makes life a lot easier in here if you understand why they are doing what they are doing instead of whining.
If he stayed in the bullpen all year, they can’t make him a starter next year.
Frankly, I’m more worried about Cano than I am about Joba.
Joba will be fine. I’m not so sure about Cano.
He seems to be throwing away his season with wasted at bats.
That’s a much bigger concern to me than a kid who struggled in the first inning of his first ML start.
Its not a big deal.
The truth hurts. He should be in the pen and he should have transitioned next season. I guess most of you like Farnsworth and Hawkins pitching in the big spots.
come on Joba, at least get one out this inning and keep the pitch count
They dont swing at his slider anymore
V,
good point.
that 2-2 pitch is the SAME pitch he called on Giambi
Yeah, I’d hold onto Giambi.
GO YANKEES!!!
GO RAYS!!!
Just joining up.
GO JOBA!
WTF, that pitch is right where he called Giambi’s…
That took a couple pitches longer than necessary…
That’s exactly what I was talking about. Joba jumps ahead 3-2, and then starts throwing pitches well out of the zone. That’s fine 0-2. That’s even fine 1-2. But you don’t want to let the count get to 3-2 by going for the strikeout. Especially when there’s nobody on base.
“BenCanMov” Bench Cano Movement
We are accepting membership…. I was listing this afternoon to mike and the mad dog and they hit it in the head Cano just seem like Lazy…. No dicipline at all… I think A-Rod was asked to assess Cano a couple of years ago and he said “Can be in coopers town after his career or in the minor league tomorrow”
“Will K June 3rd, 2008 at 7:43 pm
The truth hurts. He should be in the pen and he should have transitioned next season. I guess most of you like Farnsworth and Hawkins pitching in the big spots.”
russ is that you?
How hard is it to get him innings in the pen? What is he going to give today? 2 innings? He’ll be at 80 pitches on Sat. Whats that? 3or 4 innings?
They could have easily stretched him out in the pen where he was really needed.
Basically this is a huge indictment of Hughes/Kennedy.
It’ll be nice when Posada gets back Joba looked more comfortable with Jorge
i might kill Michael Kay by the end of the night, he has given us the pitch count on every pitch
what’s wrong with throwing a third fastball after throwing two straight strikes.
he has no command of his breaking balls so he’s basically just wasting pitches.
i’m not blaming joba.
molina , girardi, and eiland have a say about pitch selection so it’s really them i’m questioning.
WE WANT GEISE! WE WANT GEISE!!!
Y’know what, I like how he has a bad inning, then starts off the first two hitters 0-2.
I see alot of 97+ pitches from Joba.
Think this is because he knows he has a limited pitch count?
Hard to believe this kid can throw 97+ over 6 innnings.
Man, he’s all over the map.
WE WANT GEISE! WE WANT GEISE!
C’mon everyone!
WE WANT GEISE! WE WANT GEISE!
Oh dear…
will k, mike francessa and anybody else who thinks joba should be in the pen have every right to have that opinion, get off the guy. same for ppl who think they should have made the santana trade.
whats the problem, we can certainly disagree, if someone’s reasoning is shaky, you’re free to disagree and argue the point, but to just jump on a guy b/c he has a minority opinion is unamerican.
I guess the people here want to win 80 games and see Farnsworthless pitch in big spots this year.
Keep in mind they will have to do this when Kennedy comes back in a week and when Hughes comes back in July. Great lost year at the last year for Yankee Stadium. All because they couldn’t get decent starters to fill out the rotation.
the kid looks alright. shame it’ll be such a short outing for him.
that’s a good inning…. hopefully he can get through the next inning – I only thought he was going to go 3 tonight anyway
“If he stayed in the bullpen all year, they can’t make him a starter next year. ”
It would have been alot easier if they found someone to replace him. Instead it looks like the gave up the season to make this guy a starter.
That’s what you people don’t seem to understand.
Oh good. Looks like a 3 inning Job for Joba today. Bullpen better be ready.
Getting better.
Nice quick 1-2-3 inning for Joba.
man oh man, what a great, great inning that was by Joba. Totally beyond my wildest expectations of him
Back to work bats
Did some people expect Joba to go 7 innings today or something? I thought he might go 4 max
Try and find some patience
he will pitch 3 innings today that is it..
he is not even pitching well and look at him…
anyone who thinks he should be a 8th inning guy is out of his mind……
I’m a “troll” because I don’t agree with the majority opinion here. But that’s how this board usually is. People can’t take someone disagreeing with them and actually being right. This team should have Santana on it and Joba should be in the pen til ’09.
54 pitches for Pizza the Hut. Not long for this game.
Oh boy this is awful if Joba gives them 3 quality innings… I mean they easily could have had Kei Igawa give them 4 innings and only allow like 6 runs, put pitch FOUR innings, that’s right, 4 crappy innings.
“BenCanMov†Bench Cano Movement
Hope our offense can score a couple more runs so we have a chance to win this game…..
Maybe Mo will pitch the bottom of the third.
Now that’s more like it!
Too bad the pitch count is so high already…
Just did a quick browse of the posts. HI FRAN!!!
Multitasking – doing some work work while watching the game.
well, if joba goes 1-2-3 in the 3rd, then i will be satisfied with what he gave us
electric stuff
just needs better command and more trust of his fastball… they said the gun read 101, not so sure but i believe high 90s
MUCH better inning for JOBA!
“The truth hurts. He should be in the pen and he should have transitioned next season. I guess most of you like Farnsworth and Hawkins pitching in the big spots.”
Yes it does. The truth is that you have no comprehension of baseball.
I think Cano misses his 9th spot in the starting lineup.
JOE!
Why shouldn’t Kay be giving updates on the pitching count??
It’s not like its BIG STORY or anything.
Will k is Russ incognito
Molina cant hit or catch y is he here because of his last name
If this continues, sit Cano during Interleague series against Houston and Cinci, send down Duncan and bring up AGonzo to play 2nd.
I’m beginning to think that giving Cano that long-term contract was a mistake – this kid looks like he has zero ambition or drive. He should be earning his job every year through arbitration.
Well, the Yankees can hardly do the smart thing and build for 2009 with all of you short-sighted bozos screaming at them, now can they? They have to win. 80 wins and a huge jump on 2009 isn’t good enough. That’s a ridiculous philosophy.
they should convert Farnsworth to a starter! He might be a diamond in the arse!
at the very least, he won’t be pitching in the 8th!
“blah blah blah” that you again V?
boy this ump is trigger shy…
To be honest this Ump is squeezing both ends
Great to see Molina battling it. At least that took 7 pitches.
Randy,
I agree. With his fastball, you don’t have to trick people. Just go after him on 0-2.
I too didn’t understand the pitching sequence to a couple of hitters.
You can’t stretch a guy out in the bullpen. You don’t stretch a guy pitching him every other day. That’s how you hurt young pitchers.
The Twins did the same thing with Santana and the Dodgers with Billingsley, as the Yankees are doing with Joba.
You just have to deal with the growing pains. It will be worth it in the long run.
As far as “not having somebody for the 8th inning”, that’s on the Yankees to fix that. It shouldn’t affect developing Joba.
If they can’t find a guy to pitch one inning, they have bigger problems than moving Joba to the rotation.
Relief innings are -not- the same as starting innings. They are much, much, much more stressful.
Why? Because you get warmed up in 7th in a tight spot. Oh, pitcher gets out of it. Ok, up in the 8th, come in.
One day rest, do it again tomorrow.
Two days rest, do it again.
Starters get 4 days of rest, with 1 throw day – not full-out relief effort.
NO reliever (I only looked at guys with 0 starts) cracked 100 innings last year. Heath Bell had the most at 93. 2006 had 102 innings in 2006 (and we see what happened to HIM in 2007). 2005 had Salomon Torres at 95. 2004 had Scot Shields at 105.
See what I mean? The chances of Joba getting to 120-140 innings in the bullpen would be ridiculously low, unless you want him burning out.
The non trade for Santana will go down as to why we are average. Not Joba moving or not moving.
“Hard to believe this kid can throw 97+ over 6 innnings.”
It’s not hard to believe at all. He did that in all of his starts in the minors last year.
He can throw an easy 97 on pitch 80, 90 or 100.
That’s why he is a starting pitcher.
“I’m a “troll†because I don’t agree with the majority opinion here. But that’s how this board usually is. People can’t take someone disagreeing with them and actually being right. This team should have Santana on it and Joba should be in the pen til ‘09.”
No you’re not a troll. You just don’t understand that trading for Santana and Joba transistioning into a starter are two unrelated things. You still have to prove your point.
Heh, Proctor had 102 innings in 2006.
Will K,
I wasn’t sure if you were a troll or just an idiot. Thanks for clarifying.
I have nothing wrong with the opinion that he should be in the pen. I disagree with it completely, but you have been whining since the thread opened and haven’t offered anything.
“Great lost year at the last year for Yankee Stadium.”
It’s imbeciles like you that chase the regular posters away during game threads.
Melky and Robbie: both producing quick one-pitch outs tonight.
Pete…before you make your decision, watch at least one more inning.
He’s thrown 2 innings in relief before…I’d like to see his third…
Oh look, it’s Will K pretending I’m using different names. Nice job, Jonah.
“If this continues, sit Cano during Interleague series against Houston and Cinci, send down Duncan and bring up AGonzo to play 2nd.
I’m beginning to think that giving Cano that long-term contract was a mistake – this kid looks like he has zero ambition or drive. He should be earning his job every year through arbitration.”
Because Gonzalez will show Giambi-esque plate patience and hit .300? That was a mirage, something you should have learned by his pathetic offensive effort during his second callup. Gonzalez is a glove, he is not a stick. And for all of the lackadasical errors Cano makes, he’s a greater defender overall.
Cano always has these slow starts, and every time they coincide with periods where it doesn’t look like he knows where the strike zone is. Maybe he’ll grow out of them. Hopefully he will.
They could have at least went out and got some set up men over the winter or groomed some early this year to handle the 7-8 if they were going to move Joba right?
It was a panic move. They had no intention of doing it til the kids bombed. You really think Cashman wanted to put his job on the line with Farnsworth?
Damon’s really on fire!
Damon going for the cycle tonight.
maybe Posada can play second when he gets back – Damon and Matsui are both hitting everything…
CB,
I think it was O’Neil who said he thought Joba would be at around 93mph as his regular fastball and could not sustain his top speeds late in games.
I wish I could get away with not doing any research for my job.
I hate when Michael Kay reads my posts on the air.
c’mon dj, 2 out ribbie right here!
While Rome whines, Johnny Damon is giving a big middle finger to all of his haters. Good thing we didn’t trade him when his value was lowest.
SJ44
Nice call about Cano. there is valid reason to be concerned about him. With a 1/3 of the season gone and 2 months deep in a slump, one can only wonder if it is a really bad slump, or are pitchers figuring him out. what is troubling is how often he helps them out.
I want him to do well and hope he breaks loose…tonight!
Joba’s just pitching like a relief pitcher right now.
That was inevitable. He was trying to miss every bat and was trying too hard to make perfect pitches.
That’s what part of his learning process will be as he transitions back.
He’ll see that his fastball is more than enough, throw the slider so it stays in the zone and work the curve ball in more and more.
His approach so far has been like he’s coming out of the pen in a high leverage situation and has to hold a lead.
Not a big deal. That’s an issue that’s going to work itself out.
That’s also part of the reason he really needed to get out of the pen.
V should I call you blah blah or just V blah???
When the mafia here doesn’t like your opinion wow. Watch out. You get name called and called a “troll”. Respectful place for ideas. I guess we should all fall in line and go with what you all say.
This might be a silly question, but I’m gonna ask anyway, lol. Do the Yankees need to have one designated 8th inning guy. Couldn’t they just go with riding the “hot hand” at the moment? In that the guy who is pitching the best consistently gets to pitch.
they should make the entire team grow all them cheezey moustaches. maybe they’ll all hit triples!
“They could have at least went out and got some set up men over the winter”
ok. then give an example of a couple set up men who were both available and worth giving 3yrs/15M for in the pen this past offseason.
you want any credibility? then make a good argument. not just a bunch of whiny posts.
Oh well, at least that made Doc work a little bit. Not too bad. 38 after 2.
the 8th is not a huge deal if you have a decent lead and you can only have a decent lead with a good start this is why Joba must be a STARTER excluding Kennedy and Hughes because they havent proven next year the only sure fire starter is Wang thats why hes starting
Ron – I’m not concerned with AGonzo’s offensive limitations.
Cano needs to be pushed somehow.
Give the “slow start” crap a rest, too. It’s June already.
Taking 2 1/2 pitches per at-bat does not equate to a slow start – just poor performance.
Angel,
It’s not a silly question. It’s actually a good one.
Not all teams have a designated 8th inning guy. It’s often a situational thing, including who is the hot hand.
SJ44, were we not saying the same things about Cano last year? And the year before that, before he got hurt?
I don’t see why him repeating a cycle that’s concluded with him being the best offensive second baseman in the AL is something to be worried about. Cano is never going to be a patient hitter. His walk rate this year is actually higher than it was in the past, if I’m not mistaken.
“V should I call you blah blah or just V blah???
When the mafia here doesn’t like your opinion wow. Watch out. You get name called and called a “trollâ€. Respectful place for ideas. I guess we should all fall in line and go with what you all say.”
I use one name. You use a different name every day to yell your opinions to the world without listening to a single rebuttal. Yes, you are a troll, ‘Jonah’, ‘Will K’. I don’t change my name to call you a troll.
Go away, imbecile.
I really don’t think anyone should be calling anyone an idiot for saying Joba should stay in the pen. It’s not like we are solid in the pen or anything. We also aren’t solid in the rotation either. Basically the team isn’t that solid.
Will K, I don’t know what you are, I think people are reacting negatively to your posts because you seem ignorant of things that have been discussed at length on this board.
If you have anything to back up your “ideas” people will change their tune.
I don’t know if I’m the only one stuck listening to the radio, but there is dire need for an intervention in the booth. Sterling has used the word “Great” to describe Halladay at least 2 dozen times and I think Suz is having hot flashes about Joba.
Not pretty.
“I wish I could get away with not doing any research for my job.”
This is very true. For O’Neil to be as informed about Joba’s ability to hold his velocity as Francesa is is just sad.
Sports broadcasters, especially in baseball, are just getting more and more exposed.
They may know a ton about the game but time and time again they just don’t bother to get the facts right. It’s as if reality doesn’t matter.
In baseball that’s a big problem because information is now so easy to get. The sports so transparent now in many ways – broadcasters just haven’t caught on to that.
“V should I call you blah blah or just V blah???”
I’m not V. You can ask Pete to check the IP address. There’s more than just me and V calling out your stupidity. I’m still waiting for your explanation as to how trading for Johan keeps Joba in the bullpen.
Ideas are nice. Making solid, fundamentally sound arguments are what separates the yellers for actual people who have something to say.
Everyone, ignore Will K. Just do a search for ‘Jonah’ on last night’s game post to get a feel for this guy’s idiocy.
Ignore him. He isn’t worth the effort.
“When the mafia here doesn’t like your opinion wow. Watch out. You get name called and called a “trollâ€. Respectful place for ideas.”
This is directed at everybody else actually: I have to wonder, but does anybody ever buy this fallback by a guy trying to save his face, or is it always a waste of time?
Who said Bobby was afraid of the wall ? Nice play there.
Abreu acts like the wall is gonna eat him!
Hey, they finally took the sharpened spikes off the wall for Abreu!
wall…what wall???
Who is that out there??? Did they put money in the wall?
NOW LEAVE BOBBY ALONE, YOU FRAUDS WHO SAY HE DOESN’T PLAY THE WALL!!!
I love Bobby.
OOhh… Abreu is SOOO scared of walls.. OOOOOhhhh Ahhhhhh.
BOBBY BY THE WALL!!
you know it’s bad when as soon as he caught it he had to yell something at someone that was probably talking some smack
Forget Joba starting…
This will be remembered for the game Abreu beat his fear of walls!!!!
MAJOR PROPS TO ABREU! but he actually caught it before he made contact with it, but he played it perfectly!
was that Bobby leaping at the wall???
Bobby, is that really you?
Woah great catch Bobby
Bobby + Wall = catch?
Does not compute. Must recheck figures.
Sure “V blah blah”. I am looking back on this board and don’t see one opinion you have. Except for calling me names and other things. I’m glad I can make your experience during this game that much better. Because it looks like you would have nothing to do or say without me. Now use another name to “rip me”.
am scare that when joba faces a team like boston he will not be good
sj-
i think it’s been talked about too much that joba has to develop his third and fourth pitches.
at this point,just command the fastball and throw in a few sliders.
the curve can be added as the pitch count gets up there later on when he’s going through lineups more than twice.
“I really don’t think anyone should be calling anyone an idiot for saying Joba should stay in the pen. It’s not like we are solid in the pen or anything. We also aren’t solid in the rotation either. Basically the team isn’t that solid.”
I have no problem with people who disagree. But they need to be able to respond to the arguments that have been put forward ad nauseum for why he -should- be in the rotation.
Kyle Farnsworth is not an argument.
Hohum. Oh oh. 4 pitch walk. Is this it for Joba?
GEISE!!! YEEEAHHHH!!!!!
GEISE!!!
GEISE!!!
GEISE!!!
GEISE!!!
GEISE!!!
GEISE!!!
GEISE!!!
GEEEEEEEEEEISE!!!
Boston Dave
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:55 pm
CB,
I think it was O’Neil who said he thought Joba would be at around 93mph as his regular fastball and could not sustain his top speeds late in games.
I wish I could get away with not doing any research for my job.
————————-
yeah. I’m pretty sure o’neil has a pretty good idea of what he is talking about, with his several years of, what was that?. oh yeah. MAJOR LEAGUE EXPERIENCE.
wow, giambi goes the other way, abreu catches a ball at the wall, these guys are really put out the effort tonight!
not a bad move to pull him out here…. he had a rough first inning
Joba another disaster indeed.
Right now I wouldn’t consider the Red Sox offense to be any better than that of the Blue Jays. The pressure might make a difference, but this is a pretty good and patient lineup right here.
Girardi can’t let him get one or two more batters? What a crock of stuff! That is f’ing frustrating.
Joba is pissed Girardi has really handled him with kid gloves
when Joba gets to throw 90-100 he’ll pitch better without Girardi looming
good. 62 pitches.
that was the best thing they could have done.
he’ll be better next time.
Okay, so we gave up our 8th inning for for 2 and a third innings?
“Sure “V blah blahâ€. I am looking back on this board and don’t see one opinion you have. Except for calling me names and other things. I’m glad I can make your experience during this game that much better. Because it looks like you would have nothing to do or say without me. Now use another name to “rip meâ€.”
Ok, troll.
Do a Ctrl+F and search for ‘Heath Bell’. Respond to that post with an intelligent rebuttal, and I’ll respond. Otherwise, go back to your trash bin of idiocy.
I hate this, when will the Yankees start winning and make my summer a good summer…wow
It would help if Hickox wasn’t squeezing him so much.
All in all, its good to get this one out of the way.
Its learning experience as he finds his way as a starter.
No problems with the move and I can’t wait to see him Sunday against the Royals.
All in all I would say not a bad outing… I mean he didn’t have any command, he was clearly nervous, yet he didn’t give in. I think he would have gotten it together if he didn’t have a pitch limit of a girls softball pitcher.
So I guess that’s all she wrote for Joba tonight.
Let’s go Giese!
Really, I wasn’t expecting anything different, given how he’s pitched in longer relief outings. Efficiency will come with experience.
Joba shouldn’t be counted on the savior of the rotation. Right now the guys really not doing their jobs are Wang and Pettitte. Wang’s struggles have to end soon, and Andy cannot blow three different leads.
Abreu makes a catch on the warning track… was anyone else nervous watching him go back on that one?
Joba got squeezed pretty badly. I try and look at things objectively, but man some of those pitches were right there.
“I’m still waiting for your explanation as to how trading for Johan keeps Joba in the bullpen.”
You don’t think if we had 4 decent starters this year that they would have started Joba and not left in the pen all year and made this move next year? They only did this because Hughes stinks and Kennedy is even worse.
But I’m sure you will all be real happy watching Farnsworth and Hawkins (the big free agent signing to replace Joba) come in the games.
But most Yankee fans love throwing a towel in on the season to groom a starter.
randy: For 5 day intervals, does a 10% increment in pitch count each time sound appropiate? Or it’ll be a bit different?
argh
“yeah. I’m pretty sure o’neil has a pretty good idea of what he is talking about, with his several years of, what was that?. oh yeah. MAJOR LEAGUE EXPERIENCE.”
So, Major League Experience makes up for lack of homework?
O’Neill could tell that Joba would be throwing 93 because of this magical experience?
Well, he was wrong.
this russ/jonah/will k cat used to do this same thing on feinsand’s blog. it can get awfully annoying, but mostly, it’s just a tedious distraction, so ignore it. dude ain’t right, no sense feeding him.
joba’s going to have an adjustment period. it is what it is. i’m excited about his transition to the rotation and, hey, the bumps in the road can’t be as bad as hughes and kennedy, right? one would hope not.
cano’s a disaster. people have been questioning the kid’s dedication since he came up. in the past, he was just good enough to ignore the fact that he looked like he didn’t care half the time. bowa was great for him, too.
Catch the ball, then tag.
I hate you Cano.
MOLINA SUCKS SO HARD
Real quick,
Get that sorry a– out of second and make him ride the pine for a week. Iv had it with him!!
“yeah. I’m pretty sure o’neil has a pretty good idea of what he is talking about, with his several years of, what was that?. oh yeah. MAJOR LEAGUE EXPERIENCE.”
I guess that makes him an expert on all things MLB.
I like how you added a period after the question mark. Nice twist but it doesn’t save your flawed logic.
Fitting that Joba gets squeezed on 4 straight pitches for the walk that gets him pulled at 62 pitches, instead of the 65-70 they wanted him to get in. This ump is an idiot.
V blah, I still can’t find one opinion that you have had and I’m checking the past week here. All you seem to do is name call and pick a fight over someone elses opinion. Really. “V troll”.
What would be nice is if Farnsworth had more leads to blow. I mean, he’s mediocre, not replacement level. Oh wait, that’s the starter’s fault.
Randy,
Agreed. He doesn’t need to “master” 4 pitches. Work off the fastball and go from there.
I agree, he will be better on Sunday.
It would have been nice if Cano could have put his body in front of the throw to keep it from going into CF.
Then again, that’s like asking him to take pitches. Seems to be too much for him to do right now.
Joba era at 2.77
So, Joba-should-stay-in-the-bullpen crowd,
Who starts for the next 2 months in Joba’s spot in the rotation? Who starts every 5th day?
Karstens = hurt
Kennedy = hurt
Hughes = hurt
Horne = hurt
Igawa = ineffective
Geise = really?
McCutchen = just promoted to AAA
Marquez = getting bombed in AAA
Its easy to say keep Joba in the bullpen. BUT WHO STARTS???
Oh and Molina totally was a “rabbit” this year…as this year wears on, he gets worse and worse,,,they REALLY need to DFA him and keep Moeller as the back up…JOSE…you STINK, DUDE !
Bah…tied again.
Joe Morgan is a HOF second baseman and spent years with one of the best teams of all time (as he never stops reminding you). It doesn’t make him any less of a blubbering idiot.
Guesses on next in from the ‘pen?
Britton
Hawkins
?
i agree he was getting squeezed a bit, but he was all over the place and like it or not, you’re not going to get the calls when you’re wild.
Ive never seen this many walks so early in a game
another nice effort for the yanks so far.. 2 runs scored by the jays on total garbage, to many walks and crappy fielding.
rolen 2 terrible Ab’s but 2 effective AB’s
this team is painful to watch, no clutch hitting etc.
do not complain about injuries look at the Jays…….
“I don’t see why him repeating a cycle that’s concluded with him being the best offensive second baseman in the AL is something to be worried about.”
No. It’s a major problem and I fully believe Cano will start on a torrid hitting streak and will end up as the best offensive 2B in the AL.
Cano hit .309 last year. That is very misleading because averages hide the underlying distribution of the data. If data is highly clustered, for example, averages can be misleading. Batting average for instance gives you no sense of when Cano’s hits occurred.
Cano had an extreme clusterig of his performance. For 1/3 of the season he was a .180-.240. For the remainder of the season he was a .300+ hitter.
But winding up over .300 doesn’t help you win games over the first 1/3 of the season. It’s as if they had two different players playing the position.
All baseball players have hot and cold streaks. But when its as extreme as Cano its a major problem because its very, very hard to cary a .220 BA/ .250 OBP player on your starting roster for 1/3 of the season. Your costing yourself wins that way that are very difficult to make up later in the year even with a torrid ending.
V
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:06 pm
“yeah. I’m pretty sure o’neil has a pretty good idea of what he is talking about, with his several years of, what was that?. oh yeah. MAJOR LEAGUE EXPERIENCE.â€
So, Major League Experience makes up for lack of homework?
O’Neill could tell that Joba would be throwing 93 because of this magical experience?
Well, he was wrong.
His job is to give his opinion. You think joba is gonna sustain 98 over an entire game? not likely. He thew 98 today over 2 and 1/3 innings. Thats hardly sustaining 98 over a entire game.
I never complain about umps but this is horrendous.
Now Giese is getting NO calls.
Dan Giese = another phail’d experiment.
Well, that was a nice start for our new long man.
they have the OBP kings Molina and Cano.. Looks like Jorge is done by the release.. BRing him up now… he is ready .. to DH another game, that is a waste.
on pace for 15 walks in 9 innings,
what’s the record?
Toronto has 2 runs on…1 hit.
I’m not one to panic at all, but I’m getting a little bit concerned about Cano.
V blah I guess we’ll never get one of your baseball opinions. God knows no one here better go against the mafia. Agree everyone or V blah or whatever other name he uses will “troll” you.
who’s this 3rd baseman that’s been handling all of these pop ups this year 8:
Get to work bats
So I see now Giese is a failure? LOL God bless some people
Kay is overstated the Ortiz DL trip. Remember, Ortiz started slow this year and the Crock Sox were still winning.
The Doc is about to take over..
CB,
I would like to respectfully say that you are making no sense. A batting average is exactly that… An “average”.
Who cares if you don’t help the 1st 3rd but contribute significantly in the last 3rd.
Thats exactly the same value as being mediocre the whole way. Exactly the same.
Does Abreu have a hit since knocking out that Twins pitcher?
Do the Yanks have plans for dinner no one has taken a deep count tonight
I thought the best decision was to leave Joba in the pen. When the Yankee organization decided he needed to be moved to the rotation, I totally respected the decision. I think he did a fine job for his first time out and wasn’t surprised that he had some nerves.
My greatest pleasure is in supporting the Yankees and in recognizing that the hot air on this forum in the name of posters knowing what the Yankees SHOULD do (as opposed to what they do) is only borne of people who can’t stand the whims of fate at any given point in time and so need to bitch to bring order to their own universes.
And those of you here who say that you disagree with the forum muckety-mucks at your own peril are right on the money. You will be ganged up on by a self-appointed posse who stick together and protect “their own.” They of course will tell you that you are at fault and will stay on you like white on rice. And as they insult you, they will tell you that you should not be insulting others, others always defined as “their own.” Quite a gig if you can get it.
That said, GO YANKEES!!!
add arod making a nice catch on a tough foul popup to the amazing things happening tonight (giambi goes the other way, abreu catches a ball against the wall)
i think the yankees are gonna win this game despite the fact that there is no logical reason they should.
LETS GO YANKEES!!!!!
The blog is a great representation of the bleachers. Some informed insightful comments, some really fine people, some great Yankee fans and a great many rude and insulting people who can not rise above name calling. Kind of pathetic.
Everyone is a troll to V. Its like a daily thing on this blog. Funny coming from a guy who uses the name V.
SJ –
I detect some frustrations in some posts, while at other times you’re objective and reserved.
Though, this time, I feel you’re starting to be bothered by Cano.
I’m no longer patient with this guy. This is not a slow start. This guy appears lazy and appears as if he’s entitled, instead of deserving.
What do you see happening if his struggles continue into July? Say he bats .200 for the month of June?
Hey Trisha – glad you’re here to root the Yanks on.
Hi Miggs, it’s trisha.
Let’s win this game!
That looked like strike 3 to me. So maybe the ump is horrendous but fair?
Good job by Arod there.
Either way we win tonight the SOX are plying the RAYS!!!
“His job is to give his opinion.”
Well, I guess it would be nice if he made an informed opinion. The evidence suggests he is wrong. If he is going to go against what all of the evidence suggests, it would be nice if he would elaborate on it.
how is Joba’s second run earned with the error on Molina?
“ok. then give an example of a couple set up men who were both available and worth giving 3yrs/15M for in the pen this past offseason.”
Isn’t that the GM’s job? To find those players? We have a great system now don’t we? Why not put it to good use and target players? Would having a lefty kill this team in the pen? I think it was apparent that Joba was moving into the rotation, right? So why not have a backup bullpen plan ready? Farnsworth and Hawkins was the plan? That’s what you’re telling me, Dave?
MVP MATSUI
“His job is to give his opinion. You think joba is gonna sustain 98 over an entire game? not likely. He thew 98 today over 2 and 1/3 innings. Thats hardly sustaining 98 over a entire game.”
This isn’t a matter of opinion. I know this is going to be hard to understand but last year in the minors joba was throwing 97-98 in the 7th inning.
He has already done this. It happened. Its very, very well documented. That’s reality.
Now if O’Neil wants to qualify this statement and say, “welll joba threw 98 late into games last year but against major league competition I don’t think the can do that” that’s fine – that’s an opinion based on his knowledge.
But they don’t even do enough research to have the facts in front of them that as a starter last year Joba sat at 95-98 all game long, including deep into games.
He has already demonstrated the physical ability to do this. So that’s not an issue of opinion. It’s a fact.
A fact very few in the media bother to research.
Godzilla for MVP
tonite the Rays are called the “Jobba Rays” when they play the Redddddddddddddddddddddd
Will K & trisha,
Don’t think you’re trolls at all for wanting Joba in the bullpen. A lot of people actually think that…
But who starts in Joba’s spot then???
Boston Dave
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:17 pm
“His job is to give his opinion.â€
Well, I guess it would be nice if he made an informed opinion. The evidence suggests he is wrong. If he is going to go against what all of the evidence suggests, it would be nice if he would elaborate on it.
how is he wrong if joba hasn’t pitched a full game yet? how about waiting to see joba pitch more than 5 innings while sustaining 98mph before calling o’neil and idiot?
trisha: If you ever wanted Joba to start next year, he had to go into the rotation this year no matter what to build up the innings, so his limit next year won’t be 140 or less
-
Yaknow, given the emphasis baseball places on stats, I’d expect it to be easier to find a list of single game records, like how the NBA makes it easy, but finding the most walks in a single MLB game is harder than I expected :/
“Thats exactly the same value as being mediocre the whole way. Exactly the same.”
true but there is something to be said for consistency. It would be nice if Cano could avoid these prolonged slumps. Sooner or later, if they continue, he may not keep hitting .340 in the 2nd half.
Isn’t it 1 earned run?
Ohoh. Here comes auto-out.
Cano got an ovation for taking a pitch.
Joba is a starter. Anyone can see that he has more than enough stuff. But where was the plan for when he went to the rotation? The hole in that pen is huge.
And all the let Edward do it, try Ohlendorf etc is great. But why didn’t they try that in April?
Question… When is Hughes scheduled to start to rehab?… haha the crowd just cheered for Cano cause he took the first pitch.
“how about waiting to see joba pitch more than 5 innings while sustaining 98mph before calling o’neil and idiot?”
first, I didn’t call him an idiot.
second, he has started many games and has sustained his speed.
cheering because he took the 1st pitch,
I have seen enough of Cano. He seems to have a poor attitude. He Soriano without the homeruns or speed. Swings at garbage pitches and gets himself out. HE needs a wakeup call.
Any news on Hughes?
Hey look, 5-pitch out. That’s an improvement over 1-pitch out.
Is this guy gonna hit .200 all year?
“I would like to respectfully say that you are making no sense. A batting average is exactly that… An “averageâ€.”
No. Your just not understanding the point.
It’s actually a very, very basic point in statistics as a whole.
But well just need to agree to disagree as its probably not going to get resolved over the internet.
When O’Neill made an out with RISP, he threw his helmet or bashed the water jug.
When Cano makes an out with RISP, he knows he’s 5-10 minutes closer to hitting the clubs.
You can disagree with me all you want. But I don’t respect name calling and being called troll and imbecile and whatever else because I think that Chamberlain should spend 08 in the pen and be a starter in 09. I’ll leave the childish antics to the people like V and blah and whoever else can’t handle a proper discussion.
Because it is a valid question and will be analyzed all year long.
Phil “DL” Hughes got an MRI a few days ago still weeks away from any activity
“BENCANMOVE” Bench Cano Movement
This is another loss… Can’t see how we can scratch a win out of this game…
yanks probably should not have given cano that nice new contract.
then they would have been able to affod to give wang that extra 50,000 he was asking for and showed him some appreciation for producing 2, 19 win seasons.
Yeah Pete, it’s definitely 1 earned run, not 2.
tom tresh, horace clark, mickey mantle?
Halladay is good as ever tonight
until we get a 2nd baseman on our roster Cano will continue to struggle he needs to know if he doesn’t perform someone will play instead of him. he appears to be someone who has to be loking over his shoulder
This guys nearly as skinny as Edwar.
“I’m no longer patient with this guy. This is not a slow start. This guy appears lazy and appears as if he’s entitled, instead of deserving.”
Not sure where this is coming from. I don’t get that vibe from Cano at all. He’s not brash or cocky. I think he’s impatient at the plate and lacks concentration on the field. Some of the plays that he misses in the field look like he wasn’t prepared for them. I don’t know if he’s out there daydreaming or what. I do know that someone needs to speak to him, especially about his hitting.
Why would any pitcher throw Cano a strike at any point for any reason? Just as I wouldn’t to Delmon Young either.
Trisha, and I say this with all due respect.
Get off your soapbox.
You give my profession a bad name with your soapbox nonsense every night. Its no wonder the world hates lawyers.
Here’s a newsflash for you. Not everybody watches a baseball game the same way you do. Or should, for that matter.
If you want respect from posters, try giving it sometime.
Its amazing to me how you feel the need to tell folks how to post on this forum. Its not your forum.
Why can’t you just ignore the posts you don’t like?
Is that so hard or are you just intellectually incapable of doing such a thing?
The Blue Jays have got great starting pitching.
“Isn’t that the GM’s job? To find those players? We have a great system now don’t we? Why not put it to good use and target players? Would having a lefty kill this team in the pen? I think it was apparent that Joba was moving into the rotation, right? So why not have a backup bullpen plan ready? Farnsworth and Hawkins was the plan? That’s what you’re telling me, Dave?”
Will, the fact is there were no quality, sure-thing set up men in free agency. I will forgive you if you don’t know all of the guys who were available, or if you don’t know that setup men were commanding ridiculous young talent in return if acquired by trade. But for you to call out Cashman and say he threw away the entire season for not giving Scott Linebrink 3/15 or traded Alan Horne and a couple more prospects for Damaso Marte is what I am disagreeing with.
As it has been suggested before, most of the quality bullpens in the league were built with young pitching talent from within the minors. The Yankees have this. Cashman has apparently, and IMO wisely, gone this route.
Reserve your doomsday scenario for 2008 until midseason when they start calling up some of these guys to help in the pen.
joba… the strikezone he got wasnt helping. the jay’s hitters knew he had a pitch count and are a mostly veteran team, so they sat on the pitches.
he could have let that 1st inning really get away, but he didn’t.
he’ll be out there sunday.
The average Yankee fan’s adoration of Paul O’Neill is astounding. I suppose I didn’t get to see O’Neill’s greatest moments as a Yankee, but somehow even given that I’m not sure I’d ever consider throwing a juvenile tantrum good behavior for a young player.
Cano’s not hitting, so he’s:
A) Lazy
B) Entitled
C) Done
Can someone describe to me how a player plays in an “entitled” fashion? I’m having trouble visualizing it.
the sj44 negative brigade takes care of its own. Don’t dare differ from their opinion or u will be shot at with all their might
bad night for a finesse pitcher like Giese
Robbie got cheers from the crowd for not swinging at the first pitch in the 3rd inning. Bobby also got extra cheers for going up to make that catch at the wall. During the guess baby game, they put a mustasche on the baby, so most people knew right away it was Giambi even before the clue came on.
Will,
for the record, I respect the opinion to leave Joba in the pen (though I do completely disagree with it).
What I don’t like is the thought that Cashman is somehow to blame for not signing average middle relievers to huge contracts and that by adding Joba to the rotation the Yankees are throwing in the towel.
That, to me, is complete nonsense and something that a troll might write.
how about
D) undisciplined
Well, Joba’s 2 innings were swell. Too bad they weren’t used in the 7-8 in support of Johan Santana.
Here come the cries that Dan Giese isn’t the answer for long man. It still seems that people don’t understand that long men aren’t supposed to be dominant. If they were, they wouldn’t be long men!
I missed Cano’s 2nd AB but I am sure it was a work of art. he is really lighting it up.
he literally is a joke…….A friggin joke and when is someone going to say it to him..
wilkerson, stairs, barajas, mench, this team is 3 games ahead of the yanks…
yeah steinny spend more $$$$$!!!!!
I forgot we have Kyle and Latroy to help out
wow, tough break.
Melky had a great throw…. dang mound got in the way.
What a bad break im gonna watch CSI instead
can this overpaid, slow, piece of cr-p team get a cheap run??Or they only give them up…
this team is really an eyesore….
Ron,
it seems like a simple concept but some people will never get it.
Francis Long Island
go back to your bridge troll
That was a bad break. He would have been out.
if you dont get paul oniell, you dont get the yankees. he’s a winner.
If they were going to move him into the rotation this year, Boston Dave, wouldn’t it have behooved them to have had someone in the pen who could pitch those innings when he did leave?
But I’m sure we all love punting regular season games for the development of a starting pitcher. Actually 3 of them this year.
If Cashman would have gone out and got another starting pitcher they wouldn’t have had to push 3 rookies into these roles.
Hey Hank…. FIRE CASHMAN!!!! this is all his fault…
Well, honestly, Giese is hardly impressing me at the moment. He does need to allow less than a run per inning.
Yeah Pete he maintained his velocity in what 3 innings thats a long relief appreance today not a start.
3 strikeouts in 2 innings good.4 walks now thats not good.
I know he’s 22 but Joba has the rest of this year and 2 more years to be like Verlander or Dwight Gooden.Anything less you have to put him as the heir of Mariano Rivera.
He’s got good stuff but can he be as good as a reliever in 7 innings something most pitchers can’t do.
they should trade igawa for larry bowa. so he can smack cano up the side of the head.
Why do you think the Joba plan was such a secret?
I’ll tell you why…
They didn’t know themselves when they were going to transition him…
If Kennedy and Hughes were healthy and performing as promised, the the “plan” would have been to start Joba next year…
Think about it…if the Yankees were in first and Joba and Mo were shutting down everyone in the late innings, why would anyone change that dynamic…
No one expected the starting pitching to be this bad…but once it was, they decided to make Joba a starter sooner rather than later…
And the spin was that that was the “plan” all along…
Right…
the jay change there style but NO the Yankees can’t.. The need to sign more VETERANS.
no they need to keep kyle and latroy because they are ????????
3 runs on 4 hits so far by the jays and almost no hard hit balls….
“this team is really an eyesore….”
nobody is forcing you to watch them. go root for the Harlem Globetrotters.
# jay destro June 3rd, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Francis Long Island
go back to your bridge troll
Thanks jay but I just paid my toll at the midtown tunnel and will enjoy watching Giese go out there and get shelled. I guess it makes me a troll for calling this disaster like I see it.
“What I don’t like is the thought that Cashman is somehow to blame for not signing average middle relievers to huge contracts and that by adding Joba to the rotation the Yankees are throwing in the towel.”
The Yankees most certainly aren’t throwing in the towel. But I do think that they are trying to do something that is near to impossible to do – rebuild and contend at the same time. So far, it’s not working out too well. However, there is still time. But we can’t keep saying “It’s early” because you know what? It’s not early anymore.
anybody who says stuff like, im going to watch something else when theire team falls a run or two behind is just a fair weather fan, imo.
the only bad part is that he’s lying, he will continue to post his doomsday crap all game long.
LETS GO YANKEES!!!!!
Yanks are not that good. They have way too many holes. Some days they will hit, then some days they will pitch and then other days their bullpenn will give it up. They are just not a complete ball club. They need to start thinking seriously about trades Especially for fuentes?
You better watch it with that type of talk, Dynasty is Destiny. The forum mafia here don’t take kindly to that type of talk which goes against their uniform thinking no matter how right on it is.
If I was at this game I would have left when Joba left then I would have gone into executive office and beaten Cashman for not getting Santana
This is going to be one of those 4 hr games.
I give up anyone in the minors for a good set-up guy
“If they were going to move him into the rotation this year, Boston Dave, wouldn’t it have behooved them to have had someone in the pen who could pitch those innings when he did leave?”
Will, all I am asking is who? If there were viable, quality setup men that Cashman chose not to sign, that’s one thing.
If the Sox bullpen gets thin, should they move Josh Beckett into the pen?
The fact is, the Yanks have a need in both the pen AND the rotation. Moving Joba to the rotation allows him to give the Yankees more innings, something I am in favor of. It also allows him to be a starter for a full season next year. Having an elite arm in the 8th-inning role is a waste.
This has been debated all season long and every point has been covered many times. We can agree to disagree, or you can go back to all the old posts and read those on your own.
Farnsworth had one good year with the Tigers and Cashman gives him 4 years
Kyle
They are not that good “yet”. The path for a return to greatness is charted, it may take a while but it will succeed. They build around young pitching and Arod dump salary, and acquire when needed.
Cano needs a reality check. He’s living off his press clippings of the past 2+ years and needs to realize that MLB is a daily battle.
Part of the reason why Gonzo should replace Betemit and handle 2nd base for a series of games so Cano can clear his head. His immaturity is showing and needs to be dealt with before it gets out of hand.
Working through a season long slump hasn’t been the answer.
get over yourself will. several ppl here, myself included, defended your right to have a decenting opinion. since then, you have added absolutly nothing to the conversation except useless blather and self-pity.
get that run back
The Yanks had all winter to think about trades and passed on all of them and passed on all free agents except for LaTroy Hawkins. I guess he was the backup plan once Joba moved into the rotation.
Who here would entrust a season to Kyle and LaTroy? I don’t think championship teams have tryouts and auditions for the 8th inning in June.
“If I was at this game I would have left when Joba left then I would have gone into executive office and beaten Cashman for not getting Santana”
I continue to be baffled by the fact that many people out there appear to think that Santana would have made any difference to this club. Would he have changed the fact that the Yankees have been God awful with RISP? Would he have prevented Pettite from blowing 3 leads yesterday? Would he have magically been able to stop Cano from swinging at EVERY SINGLE BALL that crosses the plate? All Santana would have done was handled his business and his game (all the while giving up a lot of home runs). Enough with Santana. He is not a Yankee and probably never will be. Get over it already!!!
Another attacker. You would never speak that way face to face, keep that in mind.
I will say the Joba move had one short term positive effect in that it energized the team, I mean they did score two runs in the first, when’s the last time they did that?
I’m a bit disappointed by the short length of the start, but I am hopeful the kid gloves will come off next week.
Joba gets a bit screwed with the extra earned run, that no way would have scored if Joba stayed in.
Ok, now this game is a can’t win, so if we do win, it becomes a great win.
Lastly, I don’t believe there is any type of conspiracy to shout other posters down here. Some people come here to root for their team blindly, some come to honestly critique, some come to say woe is me and others just like to poke at Yankee fans and team problems. That’s what makes blogging great, you can say whatever you want anytime, but don’t expect others to agree with, care about or even ignore your posts. Let’s keep the schoolyard giggling and pointing at the schoolyard.
So, let’s review. The seasoned veteran, AL cy young award winner, Halladay, would have went presicely .2 more innings than Joba if he had Joba’s pitch limit.
your very ignorant Stuart, Santana right now is better than any starter on the Yanks I am neither take a look in the mirror
Y’s Guy:
What are you referring to? All I’ve said is that they should have had a plan for when they moved Joba into the rotation.
If anyone can explain that plan to me I’ll be thankful.
I guess the new thing in the game threads now are folks taking on several different names and complaining about the “blog mafia”.
Tell me, who is stopping you from posting? Nobody.
If there was a “blog mafia”, wouldn’t they be stopping you from posting?
If you don’t want your opinion challenged, don’t offer it.
If you offer an opinion, don’t get your panties in a wad if its challenged.
Those aren’t “tough” rules.
“Farnsworth had one good year with the Tigers and Cashman gives him 4 years”
Yu Darvish, I think it was 3 years but you are making a good point.
Now that the Yankees have learned their lesson about signing average middle relievers to large contracts, some fans complain that they didn’t sign those guys. It’s so hard to project quality bullpen arms and the really good ones end up as closers making $10M+ a year.
You can’t have it both ways. You either sign average middle relievers to bad contracts, or you build your bullpen with young arms from within.
I vote for the latter.
Jeff NJ, that second run is NOT an earned run.
Ron –
I got this from dictionary.com. It’s a website.
Entitled means: to furnish with a right or claim to something
I think Cano is underperforming, and watching his plate approach and lack of discipline, it’s easy to get frustrated.
Cano has earned the right to play 2nd base for the NY Yankees, no question. But damnit, young players should earn their roles by consistent play – both at the plate and in the field. And if Cano keeps sucking up the joint early in the season, then the team should consider sitting him for a couple games to show him that he’s not “entitled” to this role. He needs to change his approach and play like he’s capable.
Unless you’re all for rewarding kids for not performing. Keep running him out there in July, too, sapping rallies and swinging with indifference. Why not?
So….back to the game…JOhnny is making him work
“I continue to be baffled by the fact that many people out there appear to think that Santana would have made any difference to this club.”
So what’s your position on Joba in the rotation, then?
SAntana is a the best second half active pitcher (Better Then Andy Pettitte)and is doing good for the Mets.
I like getting older but Kennedy,Melky and Horne isn’t helping the Yankees like Santana could.Santana was supposed to give the Yankees pitchers 2-3 great years until our pitchers go through the rough patch.
Now thats a plan.
If we could get Brian Fuentes for a low A prospect not named Betances obviously the Yanks should do that
Always amuses me how so many fans don’t realize how good of a GM Cashman is.
Ah well. I guess its like managers and umpires… You only really notice them when things are going bad.
If anyone thinks Hank will let Cashman forget Santana you haven’t been reading Hanks statements. Cashmans future is tied to Kennedy and Hughes and who is impressed by either of them at this point? Kennedy looks frightened and Hughes is always hurt and can never stay healthy.
Say what you will about money, prospects or what not but this team would look totally different with Santana on it. A great SP also gives a team confidence and everyone plays better because of it.
And Hank will let everyone know it.
C’mon Giese. Nice and easy this time please
sj44 u really should take ur own advice there. There is no bigger whiner here than u
Will K,
Here is the plan:
When you have an elite arm with 2 excellent pitches and 2 at least average secondary pitches, who has been a starter for all but half of a season, he should be in the rotation.
End of story.
Filling a hole in the bullpen is a secondary issue, especially when there were ZERO quality arms available via free agency. The Yankees are trying out guys from the minor leagues and the odds are that at least one of them will be a league average or better setup man.
Go Joba I am proud of you!
C’mon people- cut the kid some slack – you HAVE know this is a process and he wasn’t going to come out tonight as “Cy Chamberlain” – He is going to get better with each outing – this kid is good and he is willing to learn from his mistakes. We will be fine with him as a starter down the road. No wait, we will be MORE than fine !!
DFox, according to Pete above and CBS, it is 2 ER’s for Joba. He got screwed. Mad Dog will focus on that tomorrow.
The Santana talk is pointless!!! The Yankees (primarily Cash) were not interested in giving THAT much money & years to a starter!
End of story! Complain all you want, but we all know we will never hear from you (thank god) if Santana gets hurt a year or 2 from now so there is no point in debating this on a internet forum.
Oh Mike come on. If you are going to stalk me, which you do every night, come up with new material.
Your stuff is so tired, it fails to get a rise out of me.
Happy trolling.
Dave:
I’m not questioning the inevitable starter Joba. He has more than enough stuff.
I question the process and the timing and the fact that there is no backup plan for the team. How many times can I say it? Unless you are happy with what they got going in the pen now?
I’m all for the system guys with stuff being given chances but why weren’t they given those chances and integrated into the 7-8 back in April and May?
Here’s where we get a run back – Jeter’ll get on.
Let’s go boys!!!!
Sox and Rays going at it – back and forth…
John is right, Santana might be good this year but do we want to be handcuffed with a pitcher on the decline using 20 mil a year for a guy that might be good but not for the last three years of the contract. Melky, Hughes, and Kennedy although none have been great are still better
“Mike June 3rd, 2008 at 8:48 pm
sj44 u really should take ur own advice there. There is no bigger whiner here than u”
Honest question. Do you every have anything to say Yankee related and not sj44 related? Just honestly wondering. Obsessions are not healthy dear.
Good job Giese! Back to work bats!
“Always amuses me how so many fans don’t realize how good of a GM Cashman is.”
you may be of the opinion that cashman is a great g.m., but to suggest that any other opinion is humorous is just ignaorant.
cash put this pitching staff together, cash put this bench together. if you think that reflects so well on him that other opinions are humorous, you’re not paying attention.
btw, my opinion on cash is that i like him but am undecided (as is cash himself) on whether he should be back at this point.
MLB.com has Joba as 1 earned run.
Jeff NJ, then they are both wrong. Look at the box on MLB and Yahoo.
Am I missing something?
Joba walks Rios with 1 out
Rios steals second, goes to third on Molina’s throwing error
Ground out, Rios scores (without error, goes from 2nd to 3rd)
Next batter makes out, run doesn’t score…
Isn’t that how it would be scored? I mean that IS how it was scored on MLB and Yahoo.
Anyone who is against signing Free Agents project the 09 rotation if we do not sign a FA this offseason(including the departures of Pettitte and Mussina) Wang, Joba, ?Hughes?,?IPK?, ??? that doesnt look very comforting but then again I am not all knowing anybody else have a 09 rotation
“So what’s your position on Joba in the rotation, then?”
I was and still am against it, only because we don’t have a reliable option in the pen to replace him. I agree with the poster that said that if Hughes and Kennedy had been dealin’ from the mound, Joba would have stayed in the pen. But since those guys have flamed out (so far!), they moved Joba. I think it’s a mistake that will cost us a playoff berth, but at least it will give Joba time to grow into a premier starter.
no one whines like u sj. Now give us that 10000 word post on why giambi stinks and crib someone elses thoughts on minor leaguers and pass them off as ur own
CB had brought up an excellent point in one of his earlier posts a week or so ago regards signing big $$$ free agents (Santana, Sabathia, Texiera, take your pick) and how, by utilizing this practice, the Yankees have been basically funding the opposition. Look at what Tampa Bay is doing now for evidence of this. How else would they be able to sign Kazmir ? Certainly not on any revenue they created.
Brian Fuentes is going to cost too much although I think the Rox are being crazy. They want someone else to pay his 5+ mil contract and are asking for at least one premier prospect. They are crazy. We will give up a B prospect and pay the contract as long as he is good. We got the money and prospects
At least in this game, we are working Halliday. He has thrown like eighty pitches and we just started the sixth. At least we dont deal with him for the whole game
I agree with those who say Cano needs to sit, at least until he gets his head on straight. He’s embarassing himself and his team out there. I am confident he will go on a tear later on – perhaps this month – but he needs to sit for the betterment of the team, and him.
On another note, I don’t get the hatred toward guys like SJ44, V, or CB. I really enjoy their takes on the games. I obviously don’t know them personally, but I would enjoy sitting with them during a game listening to their insights on the game. I was a basketball and track guy in high school and college, so baseball is not my expertise, but I enjoy listening to those of you who did play the game and can give the rest of us an insight into what’s going on. I for one appreciate you guys, keep it up.
“The Yankees (primarily Cash) were not interested in giving THAT much money & years to a starter!”
I kinda seem to remember that Hank wanted him. Just a little bit.
DONT GET TEXIERA
I want to bash mike too, he’s annoying. Bashing SJ44 is like bashing Jeter, it’s inappropriate and just stupid.
FYI, that post does not tie me to the blog shouters club that trisha believes exists. I reserve the right to change my opinion about any subject or any poster at any time. If I make or lose an imaginary friend in the process, then I guess I’ll have to live with that.
spare yourself the pain pepitone. Sj would bore u to no end
Get the count to 1-2 and steal the bag, Jetes.
“I question the process and the timing and the fact that there is no backup plan for the team.”
Fine. We can agree to disagree then.
Like I said, this topic has been beaten to death and you haven’t added anything to it.
Can’t we just steal a base, for crying out loud already?
Cano sits. Who plays 2b?
Obviously Betemit can’t.
*finger* to you SJ44
*finger* to you SJ44
Y’s Guy,
I find lots of opinion’s humorous… Thats just me.
My problem is that people want Cashman to build the farm, reduce payroll & win now. That is crazy hard to do.
People bash him for Igawa and don’t give him credit for restocking the farm to the point where it is generally considered top 5 overall.
Not only that but is sooo loyal. So many GMs will trade prospects to win now to save their own neck. Is Cashman going to pull a Steve Phillips and trade Kazmir for Zambrano to try to save his job??? No, he has integrity.
My point is with GMs there is more than just putting the present team on the field. A LOT more that the average fan just doesn’t appreciate.
Wow, that’s clever. Nothing like adding value to the blog community.
They did have a backup plan. The plan was Farnsworth for now.
You can disagree with it, which is reasonable but, that was the backup plan.
At least for now.
I think Yanks must sign C.C. this offseason let giambi, abreu and farnsworth go and also sign a hitter
Hey Trisha there was an imposter using my name last night. Just wanted to make sure you knew that.
I should feel honored that someone would want to impersonate me on this blog. I didn’t know I was that popular.
Anyway Giese looks ok I guess. Its funny going from a guy with dominating stuff like Joba to Giese. Not that his stuff is no good, its just night and day from Joba’s crispness, movement, and velocity. That kid is going to be very very good.
“On another note, I don’t get the hatred toward guys like SJ44, V, or CB.”
There are trolls and pessimistic idiots in here and there probably always will be.
Boston Dave:
Please explain to me the plan for the pen with him in the rotation.
From my cheap seats I see Farnsworth and nothing else.
I guess we’ll agree to disagree if you think that was a good idea and the plan all along.
“On another note, I don’t get the hatred toward guys like SJ44, V, or CB.”
I don’t understand it either. It’s one thing to talk trash to the trolls, but these guys aren’t trolls. If they are, they are doing a great job of acting like Yankee fans.
Also, something people don’t seem to get is that you don’t have to read their posts. Heck, you don’t even have to visit this site. I see a lot of posts that I don’t care for. 99% of the time, I just ignore them. It’s really not that hard to do. If there is a particular person whose posts you don’t enjoy, don’t read them. End of discussion (or at least my involvement in it).
Anti_Mussina is back with a new name!!!
Always good to see the mentally ill getting computer skills.
Its the first step toward getting better.
Is Joba taking some relaiable starter’s job away?
I think that if you weren’t aware that Joba was going to move to the rotation this year, you either weren’t paying attention or are in denial. Whatever.
But the timing of it is an open question. I think the timetable was moved up because of the troubles of Hughes and Kennedy. So if you want to complain about Joba moving into the rotation now without ready replacements, please suggest who should be starting instead of Joba.
Yankees in 09!!! Oh yeah
Maybe Cano should be listening to Kay and Leiter about this current topic, players and their mindsets versus their talent.
Hey Montclair –
How about Aberto Gonzalez? Maybe for a series?
Not sure if they showed it on TV, but Adam Sandler’s in the house. He was showing the crowd/the cameraman his Yankees ice-cream dish.
I think this is the fullest I’ve seen the stadium on a week night this year maybe even fuller than the April Sox games because of the nicer weather.
Will K.
Who would take his spot in the rotation if Joba is in the bullpen?
Meanwhile Halladay is mowing them down. He’s a guy that gets stronger as he goes. Luckily he’s at 88 pitches so I can’t imagine him going more than 7. Still, we need runs.
Frank Discussion
Bingo. You are entirely correct.
Once the Yankees stop paying luxury tax, while concentrating on young pitchers, they acquire judiciously, rise to the top.The teams being funded by luxury tax fall.
I believe that Hal and even Hank, get it.
Well, I guess we’ll all see how it works out. I just think it was crazy not to have the pen sorted out before he moved. Because it is pretty obvious that he wouldn’t have moved if Kennedy and Hughes had more than zero wins.
Good luck. I hope the brain trust knows what they are doing.
Boomer Esiason just pulled the countdown lever.
Yu Darvish with his standard intellect.. WHo can they sign!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn’t Giambi look like OVerbay at 1st especially the arm!!!!!!!
Yeah starting pitching doesn’t matter, have Joba go 1 inning per outing for the next 3 yrs.. good way to utilize and top top tier arm…
abreu looks real good tonight at the dish….
The plan for the bullpen is young power arms. Currently that includes Veras, Ramirez and Ohlendorf. Soon it will include Melancon, Cox and maybe McCutchen. In the meantime, Joe needs to find a niche for Farnsworth not near the 8th inning though for now.
As a memeber of the blindly loyal, let me say, have patience help is on the way.
“Also, something people don’t seem to get is that you don’t have to read their posts. Heck, you don’t even have to visit this site. I see a lot of posts that I don’t care for. 99% of the time, I just ignore them. It’s really not that hard to do. If there is a particular person whose posts you don’t enjoy, don’t read them. End of discussion (or at least my involvement in it).”
Shame on you Laura for making so much sense!
Will K,
go back and read the hundreds of posts on the topic from past threads. perhaps those from SJ44 and CB. You might learn something.
i dont hate cashman, but most on this blog like to say that there is nobody else who could do the job or that nobody else wants the job (now THAT’S humorous!).
i think he’s done a good job overall, but not a good job this season. but im willing to wait and see how things go, and what adjustments he makes before i decide whether i want him back. which is what the yankees are doing because cash refused to discuss and extention.
btw, that doesnt mean i base my decision on where the yankees end up in the standings, if we’re not contenders, i want to see him do a good job selling off pieces, or if we have a shot i want to see him fix the gaping holes in this team (defense, speed, RH bat, LH RP)
so basically im on the fence but hoping cash comes through.
I’d love to see AG on the roster and Betemit off it. Is Kevin Long even telling Cano to look for a pitch to drive? Make a pitcher give you YOUR pitch??
“Not sure if they showed it on TV, but Adam Sandler’s in the house.”
I forgot, what’s the name of his movie coming out-Beware of Zortan or something? Looks…weird
Fair enough… Although they would NEVER admit it, I think the Yanks brain trust are looking at ’09 and the new stadium to field the best possible team.
Anything that happens in ’08 is a bonus.
Beware of Xanax
c’mon Giese
“I just think it was crazy not to have the pen sorted out before he moved.”
Just me, but I’d rather make sure the rent is paid before I worry about buying a new tv.
Thank God Brad Wilkerson is a crappy runner.
Boston Dave:
You obviously are content with Farnsworth and Hawkins in the all important 7-8 innings.
Maybe you should go back and read what people think of that the past week.
I wish you well.
The bottom of the order of this team just doesn’t score runs.
That’s why Bobby’s recent struggles – 0-5 last game at Minnesota and 0 for tonight, really hurts this team.
Giambi doesn’t hit with RISP (after tonight, he’s about 1-20 with RISP, 2 outs), Cano is hitting below his weight, and Melky/Molina are NL 7-8 hitters.
Bobby is critical to this offense right now.
ok are we calm here just got back to the laptop , Joba wanted more tonight..stupid pitch count is going kill baseball but hey chapter 1
Doc Halladay is the one pitcher I would have been willing to give up Kennedy and Hughes for. The guy is simply a stud!
He reminds me a lot, and this is going to age me, of Don Drysdale.
Frankly when you those of you pile on someone with “your an idiot” or “your a moron” rather than just saying, “I completely disagree with your point and there is nothing in terms of baseball to back your comments”, you deserve what your get.
Some of you need to distinguish between those who want to talk baseball and those who are just here to vent, be a troll, or whatever.
Constantly there are reminders to ignore the trolls, ignore those that say stupid things, heed to the message.
Stuart stop your not making any sense I want Joba to start but in addition to him sand wang who is filling out the rotation next year??? and Abreu is horrible tonight I hope you were being sarcastic
dan geise has done EXACTLY what you hope from a long-man. kept them in the game to the point where the regular bp takes over. (now the regular bp is a whole other issue.)
if they dont win, its not his fault that he gave up the go-ahead run, he did just what the doctor ordered!
I love Adam Sandler but I have seen a lot of him the last few days. First on the MTV Movie Awards on Sunday, Letterman last night, and in the stands tonight. The movie is Zohan, I don’t have high expectations, but I’m sure I’ll see it. Besides the wife owes me one, I’m one of the straight men who saw Sex and the City on opening night, how embarassing for me.
You are right about Halliday. If Drysdale doesn’t date you, Pepitone surely does.
We must sign Sabathia and a good bullpen arm
Nice Giese
While Jeter looks hurt when it comes to the bat, he is a lot like Cal Ripken at SS, always seems to be in the right place at the right time.
Nice play.
“Is Kevin Long even telling Cano to look for a pitch to drive? Make a pitcher give you YOUR pitch??”
If they’ve talked to Abreu about his fear of the wall and to Jeter about his range, they most certainly have told Cano to be more selective at the plate. I think that the guy simply can’t help himself. I really do. I think he goes up there thinking “I’m going to wait for my pitch” and then the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand and he starts swinging. He’s not lazy. He’s not brash or cocky. He most certainly doesn’t play like he thinks he’s entitled like some here have said. He’s impatient at the plate and lacks concentration in the field.
And that, my friends, ends my psychoanalysis of Robinson Cano.
Please score some runs.
Please.
A simple registration system or typepad or wordpress login wouldn’t hurt this site at all. Then maybe some of you can shut up for once.
yeah, halliday is great, now lets beat his brains in!
Lets Go Yankees!!!!!
Halladay spits in the face of pitch clickers
“Is Kevin Long even telling Cano to look for a pitch to drive? Make a pitcher give you YOUR pitch??”
If they’ve talked to Abreu about his fear of the wall and to Jeter about his range, they most certainly have told Cano to be more selective at the plate. I think that the guy simply can’t help himself. I really do. I think he goes up there thinking “I’m going to wait for my pitch” and then the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand and he starts swinging. He’s not lazy. He’s not brash or cocky. He most certainly doesn’t play like he thinks he’s entitled like some here have said. He’s impatient at the plate and lacks concentration in the field.
And that, my friends, ends my psychoanalysis of Robinson Cano.
You are welcome!
“The movie is Zohan, I don’t have high expectations, but I’m sure I’ll see it. Besides the wife owes me one, I’m one of the straight men who saw Sex and the City on opening night, how embarassing for me.”
Ah! Zohan! “You don’t mess with Zohan” That’s it.
I still need to go see SATC
John –
I disagree with ’09 being THE year.
Remember now that Moose is gone, Bobby needs to be resigned, Pettitte resigned, Joba still has limited innings, Hughes with limited innings (again), and everyone else a year older (Damon, Matsui).
If Ajax or Tabata really work out, then I can see us in a constant battle with Boston and Tampa for the AL crown from 2010 through 2014 or so.
But 2009 is WAY too soon. Not enough athleticism in the FA class to help this team in the near-term. Have to wait for our own to blossom.
We must sign Sabathia and a good bullpen arm
Bullpen yes, but I fear Sabathia is another huge contract that will burden the Yankees.
What they need to do is get the bullpen and better supporting pitching to help out Kennedy, Hughes, and Joba; an ace or #1/#2 will be too costly.
“He reminds me a lot, and this is going to age me, of Don Drysdale.”
I only know Drysdale from what I’ve read about him – but I got to say this is a great comparison.
I can completely see how Drysdale would pop into mind with Halladay, especially with Halladay’s intense, no-nonsense attitude.
Great comparison. That’s one of the things that makes baseball so great.
Will K,
Thankfully, I don’t panic along with many others after every play. Go back to listening to M&MD and whine to someone else. I am done arguing with a casual fan who hasn’t offered any support to their arguments.
Like I said, we can agree to disagree. Please, no more posts directed to me. I am not going to read them.
Miggs – I absolutely knew that wasn’t you last night and said so immediately.
Thanks though. I like so much how we were able to get past our initial differences and get in synch with the only important thing here – supporting our Yanks.
Sorry John and anyone who asked me a question because I really have been cranking out work at home tonight. Bah!
I think John asked this, someone did. Someone asked who I would have in the rotation over Joba. Actually I swear that I am a total disciple of Yankee decision making and despite fancying myself somewhat knowledgeable about the game (despite what some may say or think), the thing I KNOW cold is that nobody on this forum has a clue compared to the knowledge contained in the organization. So when a player decision is made, I am bright enough to know it is the right one based on all the information that needs to be known, no matter how many tears flow on this blog.
So therefore I support Joba being in the rotation. I am not a complainer or a whiner, but rather a supporter. I do believe that Joba ended up in the rotation sooner than he likely would have because of Hughes and Kennedy woes, and I believe our pen has a problem because of Bruney, Alby, and other woes. So I think they needed to move Joba over. So I have no alternative thoughts, just respect for an organization that has delivered 26 world titles and is the most storied franchise in the history of organized sports. In fact I feel honored to be a fan of the Yankees.
GO YANKEES!!!
Is anyone else having trouble posting tonight? My stuff is disappearing. There must be a Crock Sox gremlin at work.
Whom would you rather have starting for you?
Hallady or Santana?
Well, at least that wasn’t a 1st pitch out
Boston Dave:
It’s truly hard to have a proper baseball discussion with someone who thinks its good that the backup plan all along was Farnsworth.
But I wish you luck with that. I think most fans who have watched him the past 3 years could have told you that was laughable. Luckily I found the one fan in Yankeedom who thought it was good besides Brian Cashman.
Mr. “In play, out(s)” Cano, needs to take a break or something.
BOS beating TB 7-4. Ortiz missing apparently is not a problem.
Laura-that happens to some of my posts sometimes. The blog gets wonky
Halladay over Santana any day of the week.
SJ44, how about taking your own advice for once? Get off YOUR continual soapbox and poor me-ing and – as you say to so many people who question your authority – if you don’t like my posts, don’t read them pal. Because you are not going to dictate the content of my posts whether you like it or not.
And what you think about how I represent my profession matters to me as much as anything else you think about me. IT DOESN’T.
Now, take your own advice and just SCROLL ON BY when you see my name.
Now, see ya!
wow….DP machine!
Are we leading the league in GIDP? Sure seems like it.
David Robertson
1.1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 2 K’s
2.08 ERA GO/AO 1-1
our juvenile delinquent was HBP tonight
I see Robi is still swinging at pitch 1 2 3 4…
BTW someone tell the Yankees it’s ok to score a run
Pepper to be honest I dont think Kennedy has pitched like he belongs in the majors let alone as a #3 starter I think Sabathia will give this rotation some respect Wang as the Ace is not a good plan plus they havent signed a big time FA in awhile I think Hank will wanna asert himself as George part two
grife… I know this is Halladay and all, but man, this offense is stagnant.
uugggh. The best friend of the Yankees this season, GIDP.
Drysdale is a perfect comparison…..Once again a well diversified group here tonight….A wealth of underclassmen…..
Every single night is the SJ44 anti or pro show. So sick of it. I swear I think he goes back and forth to himself.
Thanks CB. I saw Drysdale several times in person, and he was one determined tough SOB! He never beat himself with dumb pitches. If you tried to squeeze the plate he would knock you on your ass. He was also one of those rare kind of pitchers, like Halladay, that you could give them the baseball and relax.
Frustrating to watch the Yanks not be able to get hits with runners on base, but it is Halladay. Happy with the pitching by Giese and Joba. Especially with the ump squeezing the heck out of the pitchers. This is a weird 3-2 game. Maybe because it is taking forever.
“wow….DP machine!”
I thought Jetes was sitting there ?
“Is Kevin Long even telling Cano to look for a pitch to drive? Make a pitcher give you YOUR pitch??”
If they’ve talked to Abreu about his fear of the wall and to Jeter about his range at SS, they most certainly have told Cano to be more selective at the plate. I think that the guy simply can’t help himself. I really do. I think he goes up there thinking “I’m going to wait for my pitch” and then the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand and he starts swinging. He’s not lazy. He’s not brash or cocky. He most certainly doesn’t play like he thinks he’s entitled like some here have said. He’s impatient at the plate and lacks concentration in the field.
And that, my friends, ends my psychoanalysis of Robinson Cano.
Halladay, not doubt about it. He eats up innings and is a better pitcher from a thinking standpoint. He’s economical and has lots of weapons. Santana scares me. He looks like he might be hurt, his velocity is down, and he has been giving up a lot more home runs than he used to. A few years down the line with that contract i don’t htink he’ll be worth it.
100 pitches for Halladay – my guess he stays in for Melky, Damon and Jeter.
One or more get on, then it’s a lefty for Abreu?
Just hoping, guys, just hoping.
Man, I am sick of the losing, just physically ill.
Anyone else take this as seriously as I do? I want to vomit.
Trisha,
Being a blind believer in the Yankee decision makers is fine, but don’t believe they always know more than someone else. Reminds of the stock market, there is one theory that the current price of a share of stock is the best and most accurate price because all known and assumed future information about the stock is factored in so the market price is the best price. If that was true, there would be point in every buying a stock and yet millions of people make billions of dollars everyday doing just that. My point is, there is always more information available, just depends how hard you look.
“BOS beating TB 7-4. Ortiz missing apparently is not a problem.”
Boston has done a pretty job with any adversity this season so far. You have to hand it to them… but hope that things fall apart at some point.
Don’t forget how long it took Doc to develop. We could experience that with all these kids
“So if you want to complain about Joba moving into the rotation now without ready replacements, please suggest who should be starting instead of Joba.”
Assuming Joba had vetoed his move to the rotation-which published reports suggest he could have-who would have been starting in his place?
What do you think, Nick in Sf? They would have started someone…I wonder whom?
Any ideas?
Not that thrilled with Molina in this game today.
I miss Jorge..but he will be back soon.
Someone asked if Kevin Long has been talking to Cano about looking for a pitch to hit. If they’ve talked to Abreu about his fear of the wall and to Jeter about his range, they most certainly have told Cano to be more selective at the plate. I think that the guy simply can’t help himself. I really do. I think he goes up there thinking “I’m going to wait for my pitch” and then the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand and he starts swinging. He’s not lazy. He’s not brash or cocky. He most certainly doesn’t play like he thinks he’s entitled like some here have said. He’s impatient at the plate and lacks concentration in the field.
And that, my friends, ends my psychoanalysis of Robinson Cano.
I think Randy Johnson looks like CHESTER THE CHEETAH!!!!
why doesn’t Veras throw his slider ..
C’mon Veras
The issue shouldn’t be Joba starter or reliever. It should be find 8 more like him. Better pitchers all around would help.
“Man, I am sick of the losing, just physically ill. Anyone else take this as seriously as I do? I want to vomit.”
I hate to admit it, but I’ve gotten used to them losing. It used to make me physically ill, but now it doesn’t. My body has gotten used to it. Sad state of affairs.
Giese has done his job; now it’s on the bullpen to keep it close and offense to rally
Pepitone,
No – thank you. I really meant what I said before. Tradition is such an integral part of baseball and on my own I wouldn’t have drawn that connection between Halladay and Drysdale myself. Right down to the complete games!
But once you said it I flashed back to some old books on baseball I used to read.
I think Phil Hughes is a PANT-LOAD!!!
Okay, now the blog is sending multiple copies of my post. Wow, that must be a great post.
What would have happened if Hughes was solid and Kennedy was solid? Would this move be even thought about it by Girardi and Eiland? If they were up 5 games?
Yeah, welcome to the world of the other 29 teams of major league baseball. For one stinking year. Or is that too much time for some people on this blog?
got to hand it to Gary Denbo he has the pulse makeup of those hitters
I guess Markakis really thinks Hughes is a Pant Load.
rios just kills us! and he’s having a crappy year against everyone else, but he’s unstoppable against us! need a dp here.
Jose Veras really needs to do a better job than this. We’ve seen the stuff, and his command isn’t the worst in the world.
I do and I’m Sexy and Greek!
By the way, anyone know of any Yankees who went on the record saying they wanted Joba in the pen?
Besides Moose?
I’m beginning to think this blog needs registration.
Eek. Come on Veras. Freakin Rios
“What would have happened if Hughes was solid and Kennedy was solid? Would this move be even thought about it by Girardi and Eiland?”
Eventually; only sane way to get Joba’s innings in this year is to start some. Unless you want Joba as a starter next year who can only pitch half a season or so before being shutdown. Or unless you don’t want Joba as a starter, ever.
Besides, didn’t Joba start ST games this year?
Not very good by Veras, ugh!
BTW – John Sterling has wanted to bring the infield in on 10 occasions tonight. double ugh.
There we go, Jose. Nice pitching.
In the bizzaro world of some people starting prospects should end up in the bullpen.
ill never root against my yankees, but it sure wouldnt hurt to see a bunch of bandwaggoners to drop off and find another team (tampa bay?) too root for.
Lets Go Yankees!!!!!
big K there, get a dp and lets get out of this!
yeah edwar!
random weird question: if you had to trade the whole NYY team for one of their entire minor league teams, which would you pick? full roster for full roster. don’t worry about more experience and all that, just performance-wise or who you like better. just for fun.
I’m not worried about Joba or Kennedy, or some of our other young pitchers. But, I am worried about Phil Hughes. This is the second straight year he has gone on the DL with a major injury. I hope he doesn’t end up like Mark Prior.
time to option veras and try someone else… who’s left at Scranton to give a whirl? Horne? White? Beuller?
that is what pisses me off about Veras he’s one step away from being dominant then takes the Farsnworthless route I realize he needs time but if a team comes calling…
The Yankees should be traded for my team the Orioles we rock so much harder!
We need some luck
dynasty
did moose actually say on the record that they should keep joba in the pen?
veras is just alatin farnsworth. throws hard has no idea where it is going and is just a tease.
how can the yanks not find any pitching, they have been looking for yrs..
again a team with; scutaro, wilkerson, an old shannon stewart, and rod barajas is winning many many games….
they are without; hill, wells, zaun, and others but are still getting it done..
ask Darvish the Yanks should probably sign 3 or 4 more overpaid (fill in the blanks)…..
the yanks think situational hitting is a disease.. cano considers his hard hit ball last inning a hit and will allow him to swing at the 1st pitch on his next 2 AB’s.
blow it up; bye hawkins, farnsworth and Molina( I am tired of him) and bring up the young relief guys and allow Moeller to stay on the roster.. Molina is a DP in waiting his offense is atrocious….
This game has gotten so boring that Pete is rambling about ED meds.
Giese is the real deal. Veras is not. Edwar, we need you here, son,,,gettur done !
Mr. Markakis: Mind if we take some tissue from your arm so we can clone it?
I’m going to go out on a limb and venture a guess and say that Veras isn’t a part of the late inning solution.
If the Yankees do not trade for fuentes in Colorado I will kill cashman with my own fist. We have no bullpenn
You’ve gotta throw strikes Edwar!
Santana is better than Doc H. The lefty thing is a huge Plus in Johan’s favor.
They should get an ace via free agency because although Joba may be one in 2 years he isnt one now and the Yanks cant repeat this performance in 09
CONO PARA CON TU VIANA Y TIRE LA BALLA !
Oh crap.
Please get out of this, somehow
“I’m not worried about Joba or Kennedy, or some of our other young pitchers. But, I am worried about Phil Hughes. This is the second straight year he has gone on the DL with a major injury. I hope he doesn’t end up like Mark Prior.”
Eh, I’m not worried. Prior’s arm is gone. Toast. Overused, bad mechanics, gone.
Hughes has had no arm troubles – leg and ribs, that doesn’t project to be a long-term problem.
this is gonna be bad
His command is -not- there. That’s gotta be mechanics.
and where was THAT pitch ??? DANG !
Going to go out on another limb and say Edwar isn’t the answer to who replaces Joba either.
Pull him now. Now. Not after this batter. Now.
Take some tissue from both arms even the more Nick the better!
so….who still wants him in the 8th?
yeah the pen as set can get it done.. don’t worry we have Latroy warming up!!!!!
yeah keep melancon, cox, and roberstson down for what reason..
edwar gets like this once in a while and it is ugly
Man, his mechanics are not there – he’s got no control of the fastball.
Call up JB Cox!
OMG NOW HE PICKS THE TIME TO MISS THE PLATE !
Dynasty, if you’re basing any part of your opinion on published reports that Joba might have vetoed the move to the rotation, you’re deluding yourself. In my opinion.
I don’t know who the next possible starter might have been, but it’s probably not someone who could have reliably delivered leads to the 8th inning.
screw this ump and this game,,,bye !
The whole tryouts thing in the pen right now isn’t going well at all.
strikes Edwar. Strikes
well, everybody on here had edwar as the 8th inning solution this morning. i like the guy but i dont think he’s there yet. this is the problem when so many focus thier anger at farnsworth and girardi for using him. cash left him wiht no good choices.
Those runs are on Girardi.
Inexcusable to leave him pitching when he has no control.
“did moose actually say on the record that they should keep joba in the pen?”
Yes, if memory serves me correctly, I read it in the book “Living on the Black: Two Pitchers, Two Teams, One Season to Remember” by John Feinstein.
Does anyone here own the book? Check the index…
Edwar did not get the job done tonight.
The bloom is off that rose, folks.
no way they got a hit with men on base…
My bad the yanks are in the field…
wow.. the yscored 6 runs without a HR that is possible??????????
“I don’t know who the next possible starter might have been, but it’s probably not someone who could have reliably delivered leads to the 8th inning.”
He’s currently pitching in Queens and wearing #57.
Oy
V June 3rd, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Those runs are on Girardi.
Inexcusable to leave him pitching when he has no control.
Blame goes everywhere except the player??? Strange.
Was he crying?
Nick Markakis isnt pleased this game is painful to watch
Everybody still want Edwar to fill the 8th inning role?
This is why I love Yankee fans, the kid finally throws a strike and the crowd gives him the “Bronx Cheer.” New York fans are the greatest, and I’m an L.A. guy, because they will cheer you like no one else when you perform the way you should, and boo you mercislessly when you stink up the joint. Here in L.A. we’re too busy text messaging to bother.
Lets hope Edwar keeps his composure and doesnt break down and cry.
yeah Hawkins will put out the fire..
we should ban all Santana crap from moron fans like Mark…
Yeah moron give up 4 or 5 players and sign a 29 yr old who has seen his best days to a 7 yr contract for $20 + mill a yr.
Mark you are another 19 yr old moron new to the sport or thinks the crap we have seen for 7 yrs is nirvana. that is overpriced crap, but with big names!!!!!!!
I guess the shine is off Edwar…
hopefully, it was just one bad outing and he’ll get an opportunity to show that he can recover.
watch hawkins come in an mow them down. our relievers can do that once the game is out of hand.
Nick in SF,
Do you think Joba would have been moved to the rotation if he wanted to remain a reliever?
hey folks you thought that as. whooping by the Giants on the Mets was something you ain’t seen nothing yet !
It’s like watching the same game night after night.
Newsflash: Edwar is not a major league pitcher.
Well, the backup bullpen plan is a total failure. Check Ramirez and Veras off the list along with Farnsworth. At the rate they’ll be going to Mo for 9 outs since he’s the only reliable arm out there.
It just shows that this wasn’t the original plan and now it is blowing up in the Yanks face. And ours.
I’m really looking forward to Joba’s next start on Sunday against KC. It’s well worth it to develop quality and elite starting pitching, even with the inevitable rough patches and setbacks that will occur along the way. Same goes for Phil Franchise and IPK – their story is just getting started.
Also, developing their own talent allows the Yankees to reduce payroll so maybe they won’t have to continue subsidizing their competition (Tampa). Not against spending and spending big as needed, but bankrolling teams that will use your money to beat you doesn’t look like a recipe for success in the short or long run.
Are their even words to describe how bad the yankees bullpen is? Just absolute trash. Take mariano out and look at the other guys. Keep in mind that we have a 200 mil dollar payroll while looking.
This game is the most heartless weak game the Yanks have played all year really upsetting effort
So, exactly where would Joba be used in this game if he hadn’t started? Yankees have scored 2 runs. Any non-Joba starter is going to give up more than 2 runs.
alot of times PA’s job seems like it would be a blast. but on nights like this, i’m glad i can leave and he has to stay…and comment on Cialis commercials.
I’m a moron stuart for wanting the best pitcher in the game on the Yanks? I guess you like trotting out Rasners and Mussinas and Kennedys every other day.
And no pitcher has gotten better as they get older especially change up guys and lefty’s??? Stop drinking the Kool Aid, stew.
what a nightmare
I guess round one goes to the “joba belongs in the pen” crowd
but this is a VERY long boxing match.. not a one round ordeal.
Ok, I’m out of here. The idiots are taking over.
Yeah, yeah, we got it, the season’s over. Keep whining.
Is it safe to open my eyes?
Back into last place. O’s are winning.
When do we play Seattle again?
would I be an alcoholic if I just out of the blue feel the urge to drink right now ?
Mark in CT, are you saying that when Hughes and Kennedy had their troubles, the two options were Joba and #57 in Queens?
I just looked. Yikes.
Why was Giese even taken out of the game. He’s been starting in Scranton. He could have thrown another 30 pitches.
And why use Hawkins instead of Britton?
This may not be the best year for calling people stupid for wanting Johan Santana starting 35 games for the Yankees. Especially with kennedy and hughes hurt and showing nothing.
8th Inning Reliever Tryouts
- Krazy Kyle…nope
- Jose Veras…veras means krazy kyle in spanish…sorry
- Edwar…have a sandwich and come back again another time…
So far no one is stepping up…
No S.A. its not even half over
I wonder if Sparky Lyle would be interested in putting on the ole uni once more?
I feel ready to start chugging some vodka..
I see that Hawkins has joined the moustache club. Too bad the magic of the ‘stache has worn off.
I wonder where the usual posters like Nick from SF,Buddy and others who said anybody can pitch the 8th.THese guys can’t pitch the 7th let alone 8th.
You can’t have 5 to 6 pitchers every game.This is starting to be like last year.
A trade is coming guys.And Kennedy,Hughes and Joba aren’t again like this year will all be in the rotation next year.Expect 5 innings Mussina and Pettitte out and 1 to 2 new pitchers.You risk a $200 million team in a year where there are no clear domiante team to struggle again.
Can anyone say Mark Melancon?
this is getting really ugly
LaToya Hawkins…oh my gosh you stink
“This may not be the best year for calling people stupid for wanting Johan Santana starting 35 games for the Yankees. Especially with kennedy and hughes hurt and showing nothing.”
It’s not about 1 season of Santana.
Santana’s going to amazing this year. He’ll probably be amazing next year. And 2010.
But guess what? By the time that contract’s over, it’s going to be an albatross. Worse than Giambi’s. Not as bad as Zito’s, by far, but -bad-.
Depression hurts, Cymbalta can help.
http://www.Cymbalta.com/
Enjoy it tonight Toronto, we’re taking the next two.
Nick in SF:
You wouldn’t want Santana pitching in the Bronx right now?
Because he could be here for Hughes and Kennedy. Those two have showed me nothing in two years.
Mrk shut up because you are just stupid..
look at snatana’s #’s the last full yr… he is not worth 4 guys or 5 and $145 Mill….
can you little mind comprehend that???
No pitcher is worth that, none unless they are cheap…. Santana is not cheap…
I bet you Santana will never have yrs. as good as his previous best yrs…..
Hawkins is beyond bad…But don’t rush Melancon or COx, NAH we have time, worry about thee arm strength..
This could be the night Girardi starts flipping furniture in the clubhouse
Even the outs are smoked…
So how will we fix this pen?
amazing how miserable this bullpen has become.
you have farnsy, hawkins and veras basically useless..
YEH WE OWN TALK RADIO AND THE BACK PAGE TOMORROW NO ONE CAN OUT SUCK US RIGHT NOW !
I am not happy. I don’t see any difference in Joe G and Torre. We should have gotten Donnie Baseball if it were going to be status quo.
We really need to release Hawkins…he has nothing left in the tank.
at least they got an out
This game is a joke. Wow our bullpen really gave it away tonight.
I’m right here, MoBoy, and I’ll ask you once again: what country are you from?
Maybe Goose Gossage can swing by the Bronx and pitch a few innings when he goes to Cooperstown this summer…
stuart:
Are you paying Santana? How does it effect the Yankees at all? Would it hurt their pursuit of any player especially with 100 mill coming off the payroll in Nov?
When they pay Sabathia 140 mill what will you say then?
and he seems to be having a pretty good year this year and he never gets going til June.
But I look forward to being “stupid” and seeing Kennedy and Hughes when they ever pitch here again.
Pete’s 9:11pm update just shows how unbelievably boring this game has become after Joba came out.
Since this game has gotten out of control, can LaTroy just finish the game? I don’t care if his arm falls off after this – atleast he’ll clear a spot on the roster when he lands on the DL.
I can’t be upset with losing this game. Bottomline: Joba’s already a starter. It may be scary to see what shell of a bullpen is left after transitioning Joba but I believe reinforcements are coming.
The Yankees are the ones who need that moment of silence prayer.
Just turn it off guys. Trust me, the sooner you accept that it just ain’t happening this year, the less stressful these ugly, boring, tedious games become.
I saw what I needed to see tonight. Joba starting his career as a starter. All the garbage that came after it is irrelevant. It’s all about 2009 at this point. Most of these bums won’t be here then anyway.
OMG. It’s over
Time to start the mother of all comebacks?
Dynasty, what is it that makes you love asking goofy hypothetical questions?
The bullpen is a total joke. Makes me sick.
and why didn’t they leave Geise in there?
well, this game is over… have a good night all.
This could be the night Girardi starts smoking.
Nick why can’t you answer the question he poses? It’s not hard.
Hey guys, I just started an all-purpose baseball website – slidermagazine.weebly.com – however, it does tend to have a heavy focus on the Yanks as I’m quite a big Yankee fan. It has some content on the Chamberlain move most recently. If you have time tonight between watching the Yankees improbably comeback (please?) check out the site.
slidermagazine.weebly.com
No fire in the dugout after that inning…puleazzzze!
I want to see Joe G blow a gasket in the media room. Show us you have a pulse man!
“and why didn’t they leave Geise in there?”
what you mean why it’s clearly obvious we’re trying to burn out Latroy Hawkin’s arm
Man, Michael Kay is an imbecile. Just shut your trap. Please.
We should have all realized this season was mailed in when Mussina was deemed the third starter coming off a season where he was demoted. That says it all doesn’t it?
Yankees are gonna win 10-9
TOR mgr is probably fuming. 4 pitch walk after scoring 6?
Designate Hawkins Demote Veras bring up Melancon and J.B. Cox simple end of story Cox has been in the organization for like 5 years and Melancon is very good I say bring em up
BTW, yes this bullpen is beyond awful, but who didn’t think this game was over at 3-2 anyways?
It really is time for Cano to take a seat on the bench for a few games. Oh wait, he can’t. They sent down Gonzalez to keep the mighty Shelly Duncan and Wilson Betemit on the roster.
If Jays fans are like Yankee fans they are screaming 7 run lead and he walks the first batter!
The only silver lining is learning that Jorge may be back soon. If that falls through we are really in deep.
I don’t mind Joba starting but they could have addressed the pen at some point. What did they think was going to happen when he moved????????
Has anyone found out why Britton is never used?
Lawyer Dan, am I under oath here? I don’t recall being sworn in. But if this is a trial I’m goint to have to object, your honor, and cite irrelevance.
Looks like I pick a bad time to stop sniffin glue
“I don’t mind Joba starting but they could have addressed the pen at some point. What did they think was going to happen when he moved????????”
Joba and Rivera can’t pitch every inning.
If the other relievers can’t step up at all, this team has a lot more issues than not having Joba in the bullpen.
This game showed us all a lot. Showed us Joba has great stuff. Giese can be a long man. And Veras and Ramirez are not cut out for tight pressure situations. So who’s next in the great bullpen tryout of ’08?
Yu…I agree bring up the next level for the bullpen at the earliest chance…these guys are dogs.
“The only silver lining is learning that Jorge may be back soon. ”
Jorge probably doesn’t want to come back to this team.
God they suck. We have no bullpen. Unless the starters go 8 or 7 (with Mo’ getting 6 outs), we’re not winning.
“what you mean why it’s clearly obvious we’re trying to burn out Latroy Hawkin’s arm”
We can only hope. Maybe someone can slip q00 Cialis pill in his ice arm wrap after the game…he’ll wake with a permanent stiff arm. He’ll never play the game again. Everything off the plate. (Oh wait…he already does that…)
Bring in Benitez!
“Man, Michael Kay is an imbecile. Just shut your trap. Please.”
This is the level of discourse during losses here. Grab the tents and let’s go.
If the other relievers can’t step up at all, this team has a lot more issues than not having Joba in the bullpen.
EXACTLY!!!
A point that seems to be lost by a great many people.
What the heck happened tonight? I went away for a couple of hours – Joba gets the quick hook by Joe after only giving up 2 cheap runs? I “GET” that they’re trying to slowly bring him along but my little cousin pitch count is higher than that – and he’s 12!!!!! I mean, this guy is a professional athlete. One of the greatest arms in the world. To me, if they’re going to treat the season like this, they should lower ticket prices. You want me to be patient?? Fine, charge me what the Brewers charge their fans.
3 good silverlinings
Giese is the long man
Joba to rotation starts
Hawkins has no pitch count
ha…2 walks after a 7 run lead.. did we trade our pen to the Jays during the 7th inning stretch?
You get asked specific questions by Destiny and you avoid them for four posts. It’s fine Nick in SF but it shows no class.
Wow, should have stayed at work. what happened, when I left it was 3-2.
Man this is going to be a long long long long summer
This is great. No start, no pen.
We are not going anywhere this season.
Jeter is still the king of the DP.
The pitch count thing is pretty ridiculous.
“Hawkins has no pitch count”
that made me laugh. Please let him sleep with the fishes tonight
Last place here we come.
“You get asked specific questions by Destiny and you avoid them for four posts. It’s fine Nick in SF but it shows no class.”
you must be new here
Jeter tried to GIDP there but Scutaro wasn’t gonna have any of it.
We have got to find a way so that we can play SEA all season.
just finished yelling
“Derek don’t swing, this guy is just going to Latroy you, let it happen….But nooooooo pretty boy has to swing into the cliched groundout of his.
why?
why?
Bobby, c’mon you got a good eye, ket him Latroy you please
Edwar did what he has proven to do over the last few years…go on streaks where he can’t throw a strike.
Veras has always been a little overrated.
This team really REALLY needs a strike throwing out getter. Call Patterson back up tonight.
You know Alex is going to be swinging for the seats if he gets up.
Bobby has had his foot in the bucket all night…whats up with that.
Kennedy and Hughes better be top
of the rotation starters.
Heres some encouraging stuff J.B. Cox line at Scranton
J.B. COX:1-0 0.00 ERA in 9.1 IP 4 K 2BB and only 4 hits allowed
Mark Melancon at Trenton 2-0 1.84 ERA in 14.2 IP 13 K’s only 2 BB
Well, there’s a run. Gonna need 6 or 7 more
only 6 more. Lets get 2 here Arod
“You give my profession a bad name with your soapbox nonsense every night. Its no wonder the world hates lawyers.”
I simply don’t believe it. I don’t believe someone that comes off as childish, ignorant, and classless as trisha could be a lawyer. Ok, the classlessness maybe, but the rest…
I’m sure she made her own diploma with construction paper and crayons. Hell, I’d be surprised if she’s actually an adult. I’ve always thought she was a 12 year old having fun when mom and dad ignore her.
I’m done – that was the best chance to come back. Guy walks 2, so what do our guys do? Swing at close pitches and ground out. Beautiful.
Ok, some predicted a 10 game winning streak, some predicted 90+ wins, others not so much.
so someone with some baseball knowledge explain why this is no greater than a .500 team after 58 games?
And you cannot use injuries, Red Sox, Angels, Braves, Cubs, Indians, have all had their share of injuries and not flatlined this bad. I am still concerned that the Yankees never seem to have answers within that don’t take 2-3 years to develop.
Anyone, SJ44, Nick in SF, V, someone who follows this team.
I think A-Rod misses Minky.
AROD, LOL. How much coin does he make again ?
not so much eh-Rod?
derek and arod look sooooo bored chewing their gum and blowing their bubbles, spit it out and pay your undivided attention on the game please, maybe we won’t ground into dp’s or 300mm bombs in front of home plate.
damn, everything is annoying me tonight….grrrr
Joe probably thinks Britton is back in Scranton for the 5 Th time.
Jetes loves the GIDP hitting and as for Alex well aiming for the seats is not new
I think we should be more realistic with JB Cox. Average fastball, low strikeouts, lots of contact. This sounds like a guy that could give some decent middle innings, but not someone to come in late inning situations. Melancon blows his stuff out of the water, along with a handful of other guys.
Yankees season is OFFICIALLY OVER for me… all but left is developing the young pitching staff… nothing to do but wait for my J-E-T-S JETS!!! JETS!!! JETS!!!
Not sure what depresses me more:
This game or Hillary refusing to call it quits tonight…
I think ARod misses his Toronto “dancer” friend….
Hawkins reminds me of Roger Clemens
What I want to know is how did the water get in the two tubs out there…and how cold is it?
I need to get a life…this is sad!
Going to bed fella’s keep up the good work.
Some closing requests.
Cash – dump LaTroy and other dolts in the pen and give Melancon and Cox a chance soon.
Girardi-Crack some skulls tonight with the media. Yell for crying out loud. Show why you are different from Joe T or have us all calling for your job soon.
Ditto “Yankees to death” J-E-T-S in 3 months Vernon Gholston Calvin Pace yeah boy!!!
another win for a red sox kid pitcher
“Ok, some predicted a 10 game winning streak, some predicted 90+ wins, others not so much.
so someone with some baseball knowledge explain why this is no greater than a .500 team after 58 games?
And you cannot use injuries, Red Sox, Angels, Braves, Cubs, Indians, have all had their share of injuries and not flatlined this bad. I am still concerned that the Yankees never seem to have answers within that don’t take 2-3 years to develop.
Anyone, SJ44, Nick in SF, V, someone who follows this team.”
I still think they’ll win 90+
This offense has the potential to be amazing. Jeter’s been streaky. ARod still hasn’t heated up to be ‘AROD’. Matsui’s been awesome. Giambi’s been awesome lately.
Wang’s mechanics are -bad- right now. He needs to get that fixed and get back to even half of what he was in April.
Pettitte’s command has been bad lately. Bad.
Mussina and Rasner have been pleasant surprises. A healthy Hughes in August and September would be nice. A fully stretched out starting Joba will be good (he was still pitching like a reliever – just throw the fastball d00d).
The bullpen has been garbage lately (of course, weren’t they used heavily in April?). That needs fixed.
A halfway decent rotation, and an average bullpen would be enough to win 90+ and a chance at the division. We have -not- seen what this offense is capable of yet.
nobody played my game hehehehe
Did anyone else get the NY Giants DVD set today? Maybe I’ll watch the Superbowl again.
I think we can all see now that we are not playing for 2008 unless they get some help in the pen. Whether it be from the farm or by trades. Love Joba as a starter but the hole in that pen is now bigger than ever. Taking from Peter to pay Paul is a dangerous game and I wish they would have had some arms out there that were proven and reliable.
The growing pains of putting three kids into the rotation was going to be a difficult challenge made even more so by an offense that hasn’t carried its weight. The offense was supposed to take care of the early season pitching problems. Obviously, that hasn’t worked out.
and does robbie reaaally need to bring sunflower seeds onto the field?
Why? Does Hawkins have a hole in his butt?
Not sure what depresses me more:
This game or Hillary refusing to call it quits tonight…
I would go with Hillary. At least from the second week of the season you knew the Yankees had no chance and were going to be a .500 or less team.
Hillary, on the other hand, had a fighting chance but ironically now represents everything that is wrong with the Yankees.
Lawyer Dan, am I being held in contempt of court now??? On top of watching this game?!?!?!?!?!
“I still think they’ll win 90+”
Can I have some of the drugs you are taking and the ticket to Fantasyland?
Opinion alert…blind homers avert your eyes.
I think the Yankees were overrated by fans at the start of the year. Most saw two rookies in the rotation and another as a late inning/starter as a huge risk while many on this board thought they could win 15 games.
Also…Hawkins and Farnsworth. I don’t think most on this board need much more explanation, although I think Farnsworth adds more value than most think.
Nick in SF,
First post was by Lawyer Dan
Second by Lawer Dan
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 pm
You get asked specific questions by Destiny and you avoid them for four posts. It’s fine Nick in SF but it shows no class.
Looks like someone changing names for posts, wonder who she could be?
90+??? really? Did Cash just get us 70 games against the mariners? If not you should put down the crack pipe.
Towel holder:
Girardi should “crack some skulls with the media?” And that would accomplish what exactly?
The Yankees are playing poorly and it’s our fault? Brilliant. Yes, we told Veras and Ramirez to let the game get away. Girardi has more to worry about than the media, trust me.
Girardi held us all in contempt by making us watch LaTroy pitch.
I think we’ve seen enough. He had the highest ERA at Yankee Stad for a reason right????? The stats don’t lie.
If you want politics, root for Rudy to make a comeback. The Yanks never lost with him.
or maybe you just have “mad cow”!
“Opinion alert…blind homers avert your eyes.
I think the Yankees were overrated by fans at the start of the year. Most saw two rookies in the rotation and another as a late inning/starter as a huge risk while many on this board thought they could win 15 games.
Also…Hawkins and Farnsworth. I don’t think most on this board need much more explanation, although I think Farnsworth adds more value than most think.”
They were also apparently overrated by some very solid projection systems. BaseballProspectus pegged them for 97 wins in their mass simulations.
“Why? Does Hawkins have a hole in his butt?”
I doubt that is your biggest issue right now
Pete…you did not read my earlier post. Not media skulls…I want some fire in him.
“90+??? really? Did Cash just get us 70 games against the mariners? If not you should put down the crack pipe.”
This offense is just as good as last year’s. The rotation will be better (eventually).
The bullpen is the big question mark.
Well..
Zito vs. Pedro is about the start
Or I guess it just started now
about the start=about to start
it’s love it’s love lalalalalalalalala love
Anyone know when NFL camps open i think its early july right? Im so there baseball this season is boring Yanks suck Mets Suck Rays are in 1st place so are the Marlins what a throw away year for MLB big markets except the Cubs
I want him to show why he was hired instead of Torre if there really is a difference it was supposedly his fire. Well so far its not been there and I think he needs to validate his appointment soon. Either that or start charging us Royals ticket rates because our product is not any better so far.
All we need to do is Keek a touchdown, then keek an extra point, then we ween…we WEEN !!!
The offense is as good as last year?????
We got close to 1000 runs last year.
We’re on pace for what…700 some now???
What offense have you been watching?
there is no chance in hell the Mets should lose to Barry Zito
Looking forward to Cano swing at the first pitch…
Pete you think J.B. Cox is good enough to get the 7th? or should we look elsewhere, Melancon is also good but hes coming off TJ so u never know
Pete basically give us some Leyland type action. Not Ozzie stuff but make a stand. pitchers are walking the entire game away, hitters not producing as they should. He needs to show he cares or I will start thinking he’s Joe Maddon for the prior 2 years.
Holy crap. The bright spot for me was having to work tonight and not watch the game very closely.
Does anyone remember when we were bragging about having maybe the best relief in the majors, when our pen was pitching outstanding relief. Serious question – was that before or after Bruney and Alby got hurt. Or was Joba the whole difference?
I can’t believe what has happened.
Jeff NJ – with total respect to every person who posts here and on any other blog, while I understand what you mean about the knowledge base out there, I have always made it a point to trust the minds in the organization far and above the “knowledge” put forth by posters on a forum – and of course that includes anything that I may think contrary to the organization thinking also. Posters have thoughts and opinions, and those may vary from poster to poster, but I take them all with a deep grain of salt.
While there may be superior thinking in other baseball team organizations, there is no question in my mind that posters on a blog ain’t where it’s at as far as that goes. Seriously.
I come here because I like hanging out with a lot of the people here and rooting and confabbing. But I look to/trust the organization for the answers and decisions that really matter.
“Joba and Rivera can’t pitch every inning.”
True.
Joba can’t start every game.
Also True!
a farewell double, sniffle sniffle….great way to go out brother…bye bye
oh goody Shelley hits a ball for once
Pedro time
Oh look. Shelley did something. That’s nice
Cano needs to be beaten with a bat the next time he swings at the first pitch.
I really am starting to hate him.
Hey…Robbie swung at the SECOND pitch. He is showing so much more patience.
“Cano needs to be beaten with a bat the next time he swings at the first pitch.”
I’m game
Shelley “of his former self” Duncan…got a hit. Yeahhhhhhhhhh
I guess too much $$$ makes you forget how to hit. Cano’s problems are baffling.
Just to be clear and because I don’t want anyone’s Kool Aid diluted with tears, I think Dynasty is a good guy and a quality Yankee fan. So please don’t confuse a flippant and perhaps frustrated reply with malice.
So what was the question? Who would start if Joba refused to leave the bullpen? I do not know. I bet somebody worse!
Jose “can you see that pitch was a strike” Molina.
I still have winning at least 92 games…
I’m out guys g’night hopefully moose doesnt stink up the joint but I think Im done with this team for awhile I dunno about you but I think this team deserves a protest I have tix for a game in about a month and I gave em to a friend I wont be caught dead rooting for this team
I think a this point you have to give Britton a shot earlier in the game. See what he has.
Although, you have to wonder what torre and girardi know – neither of these guys ever gave this kid a chance.
His numbers are OK – what could be the problem?
Has Cano EVER taken the 1st 2 pitches of an bat?? It is absolutely crazy that Girardi doesn’t sit him 2 or 3 days in a row. He is pathetic, and it is insane that the Yanks let this go on with him. At the beginning it was he is a wild swinger but now it is just a joke already how lost he is.
Chris Britton sighting.
Time to send Britton back to the minors..he gave up a hit. How dare he do that…
Britton is being used? Whoa..
Britton can’t be worse than Hawkins.
GoYanks, I just saw your post above. I dare not speculate!
And thanks for the compliment last night, I appreciate it. I’m assuming that Trisha never saw the post in question.
“Has Cano EVER taken the 1st 2 pitches of an bat??”
Earlier tonight. It didn’t help.
List of 2008 MLB Yankees that need to be nowhere near a Yankee roster NO LATER than the end of 2008 ( some, I would like to see gone NOW ! )
.
Duncan ( and yes I saw that he just raised his AVG. to .175 )
Molina .211 ( …can’t run, can’t hit, OK in the field )
Hawkins ( do I even have to explain ? )
Veras ( anyone with an ERA over 5.00 right now…BYE ! )
Farnsworth ( ugliness waiting to happen EVERY time )
.
Get RID of this dead weight and find someone that has a decent chance of being better, because these guys do NOT have the “stuff” to make it as a NYY and it is SO Obvious !
Something has to be done about Cano. This can’t be allowed to continue. Slumping is one thing, it happens, but this has turned into much more than that. Just look at his body language. It speaks volumes.
Heck, maybe a trip down to AAA would get him to wake up.
Regarding Joba…
You don’t pull him from the ‘pen because he’s supposed to be a starter…
That’s ridiculous unless your bullpen is so strong that you’re not weakening it substantially…
In this case, how anyone couldn’t see that this bullpen would be weakened substantially with the subtraction of Joba is mind boggling…
Joba’s switching to starting pitcher today proved to be a tragegy, resulting in a tournament of “who the worst pitcher is” in the bullpen.
Cano should be rested. He is always swinging like a fool.
Of course the Yankees hitters are helpless to face LHP.
Pathetic for this season so far. No fun at all.
Britton is growing a ‘stache too.
This team has much more problems than I thought they would have.. The bullpen has been horrible… Year after year we are thrown horrible pitchers like hawkins, felix hernandez, quantrill, karsay, farnsworth etc.. The team didnt catch a break either when Bruney got hurt.. The one guy who was somewhat dependable in the pen (proctor) was traded away for a guy who just rots in the bench… The offense has been hot and cold.. They score in bunches and keep leaving men on base all the time.. You dont need to hit .300 but if you can atleast hit with RISP (like the twins do), you can atleast keep the team in contention.. Pettite and mussina are getting older every day and wang hasnt been the same for the last month or so… Joba is not going to throw shut outs every outing either.. IPK seems atleast an year away and rasner will have his good days and bad days.. This is going to be a year where yanks are going to be pretenders and stay within striking distance but unless Hughes and Joba have a huge second half and Wang returns to his form and pettite/mussina can get 13-15 wins somehow, I dont see how the yanks can move out of the .500 record..
Pat M,
Any Gerrit Cole updates?
I agree that the team will turn it around.
Don Vito, I agree with pretty much everything but Molina’s a backup catcher, what more do you want from him? His defense makes up for his bat but how many backup catchers are better than Molina at this point?
Now I know why Girardi does not like Britton – he has a bit of a paunch!
Please don’t knock Molina! He has 11 inside-the-park doubles this year!
(no, I didn’t make that up myself)
A BIT of a paunch? It looks like he swallowed a goat!
If I felt in my heart of hearts that we were going to make a run for it, I’d be happy that Tampa lost tonight. I’m not feeling it.
Epstein finds Okajima in Japan. Cash finds Igawa.
Sums up the state of Sox-Yanks right now.
He’s throwing tonight in teh Orange County North vs South….Buddy of mine has the first base bag tonight….I’ll have a real nice report tomorrow night…..Too much tension & BS tonight…..The kid is outstanding , however he’s still a kid upstairs…3.8 GPA does not help one on the hill….
6 RUN RALLY?
or gidp and pop-up?
In a 9-3 game it doesn’t really matter but this umpire was absolutely dreadful tonight!!!
com’on Jetes I can always count on you for a GIDP
Comeon Jetes, end it ona GIDP
Spooky Brandon. lol
How much longer do we have to wait before the Yankees reconstitute this bullpen? Or more importantly, can they?
Where do the damn Jays get these damn potent arm for the bullpen year in and year out? And why can’t the Yankees find them.
The Yankees bullpen has been a liability at least as far back as 2005, if not 2004 before they discovered (and then lost) Sturtze.
Jeter ties the Mick. This kid could get to 4000. The big question for the Yankees will be how much to pay Jeter in 3 years.
Whacha gonna do here Bobby
Mega Rally!!!! One for the ages!!!!
Why not?
Let’s Go Yanks!!!!
You make the call…
Bobby will double or be called out on strikes looking?
Kill-Schill: I think the fans would have to come to grips with 2008 as a “rebuilding year” before they can really blow up the pen.
“Jeter ties the Mick. This kid could get to 4000. The big question for the Yankees will be how much to pay Jeter in 3 years.”
don’t bet on it
“The Yankees bullpen has been a liability at least as far back as 2005, if not 2004 before they discovered (and then lost) Sturtze.”
That’s why when you have something like Joba + Mo, you leave it alone…
It’s common sense that you never fix what isn’t broken…
It’s very simple.
Pat M.,
Much thanks. Appreciated. Look forward to the report tomorrow.
Its getting closer to draft time – Cole is all over the board. Jonathan Mayo the MLB.COM draft guy had Cole falling out of the first round entirely.
I can’t see that happenning. We’ll see if he lasts until 28.
Let us know when you get a chance tomorrow.
This could be a turning point. My Spidey sense is tingling!
I hate to say this in a negative type way because I love A-Rod – but I really see the classic down by 6 3-run homer coming
Dynasty, YOU ARE REGRESSING.
I need this game to be over, I have 14 minutes left to vote.
Kill-Schill,
Not only do other teams seem to have strong young arms in the bullpen; there usually have at least two lefties
ok a backwards K – absolutely ugly alllll the way around tonight
we need a pen.. bring up the kids, trade anyone out there not named MO… whatever we have to do – this can’t continue, it’s awful to watch
The Yanks’ loss is my civic responsibility’s gain. Must vote. Please, all, be positive and happy.
Great effort guys.
Go home and count your millions.
You earned it tonight.
“How much longer do we have to wait before the Yankees reconstitute this bullpen? Or more importantly, can they?”
I think we are going to see some immediate changes come this week and next.
More definitive changes in July.
They are going to have to be willing to experiment and try one guy after the next. It may not be pretty but they have the resources to put something together.
Hopefully it won’t be too late.
How much longer is it going to take the great Cashman to sign 1 good pitcher? 5 years?? Only he thought that 2 kids is the rotation was good and the 2 twin disasters Farns and Hawks would get people out. Other GMs must laugh when they see how much money he wastes on garbage every year.
I’ll take your guys’ word for it the game is over but ESPN.com still has A-Rod up with 1 ball and 2 strikes. Sometimes I think they delay results just to get suckers like me hitting reload on their scoreboard.
Congrats atleast to Jeter.
Its has truly been an honor watching him over the years and develop into one of the greatest players of our generation.
Much love for the Captain.
CB….With Scott Boras as his rep, you know he’ll be floating around late into the first round….Yanks will jump on him, besides one has to think Boston is thinking along the same line…..Kid’s electric…..
pat
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Britton is growing a ’stache too.
That wasn’t a ‘stache you saw, it was food.
By the time Joba gets stretched out we may be down 10 games.
Pat M.,
That’s what I’m hoping. But word is that the Cubs, Phillies and D’Backs also like him.
This draft is so thin that there might not be much for them to select from. It’s possible all of the high ceiling guys will be off the board.
Of those high ceiling guys Cole is by far the most likely to drop. Boras, the questions about his makeup, etc.
But for the life of me I can’t figure it out. From every report I’ve read about him he seems to have – by far – the best arm of any pitcher in the entire draft. Better than Aron Crow or Brian Matsuz, etc. There’s not really any guy who sticks out with really electric stuff besides Cole.
Look forward to your scouting report tomorrow.
OH HELL NO ! oh no Pedro and your Mets your not trying to OUT SUCK US, THAT BACK PAGE IS OURS YOU HEAR ME, GUT IT OUT DAMMIT
“OH HELL NO ! oh no Pedro and your Mets your not trying to OUT SUCK US, THAT BACK PAGE IS OURS YOU HEAR ME, GUT IT OUT DAMMIT
”
that is funny haha
$$$$ will be the deciding the factor as you and I both know……Slot doesn’t apply to sertain teams….Cubs ( on the market ) Arizona ( to steep an investment ) Philly ( what pitcher wants to pitch at Citizens )..Maybe wishful thinking on my part….We’ll find out real soon…..Many scouts are in Orange County tonight watching this game….
Scorpio …Moeller is a better option than Molina, both because he is not a fat bastage, so HE can actually run to first AND around the bases…and he is hitting substantially better than ButterBean, too !
Depression hurts, Cymbalta can help.
http://www.Cymbalta.com/
CB
Do you think Boras has lost any of his dominance as the “super agent” in baseball?
With the bungled Arod negotiations it seemed like Boras was left with some egg on his face.
Boras touted Gagne as a great reliever and got him a 10 million dollar contract. I bet Milwaukeee is regretting that contract.
Boras claimed that Andruw Jones still had it and negotiated a big contract for him with the Dogers. How has that worked out for the Dodgers??
It’s interesting that Manny did change agents and hired Boras this year, but I still wonder if Boras has lost a little of his luster?
Pat M- Sorry if this has been answered, but when people talk about Cole’s bad makeup are they talking about his pitching technique or that he has an “attitude” problem. Thanks, and looking forward to your report tomorrow.
“Many scouts are in Orange County tonight watching this game….”
This is one of the things I’m concerned about. Cole seems to be getting a lot more attention in the recent weeks, especially with his recent performances.
I think I mentioned this last time, but he was supposedly clocked at 101 in the playoffs last year.
That opens a lot of eyes.
The thing with paying over slot this year that might be different than prior years – the talent is so thin that teams are supposedly not going to let guys fall as far.
Arizona drafts very well. They nabbed Jarrod Parker last year. Some people have compared Cole to Scherzer. This is the first year they will pick at the end of a draft in a while so it’ll be interesting to see what they do.
I’d also like to see the yanks take a shot at Tanner Scheppers – his stock has plummeted since that unclear shoulder injury of his.
But Cole is the guy I want them to take in round 1, as a bat like Hosmer won’t be there.
Um. OK Mets..this is Zito
THOSE S.O.B.’S ARE TRYING TO STEAL OUR BACK PG.
Not much good to say about tonight. I just saw that Baltimore won so they’ve vacated the basement and we’ve dropped back in.
Don’t worry Brandon. Game will still be happening in SF when the “Pen-demonium” or “Bad Joba” headlines are running through the printing press.
“Do you think Boras has lost any of his dominance as the “super agent†in baseball?”
ray,
I think this really depends on the dynamics of the free agent market.
The competitive climate is changing very quickly. As younger players are signing these long term contracts (e.g. longoria) boras will lose clout.
Fewer players seem willing to wait to get to the market because teams are willing to give them life altering money very early on.
Case in point – Miguel Cabrera. 10 years ago he hits the market. Same for Hanley Ramirez.
I don’t think it’s the ARod or Gagne issue for Boras – it’s the shape of the market.
He misread the market for ARod = and it made him look stupid – he treated the situation as if it were 10 years ago.
Another big factor is the exist of George Steinbrenner – Boras doesn’t have that bail out anymore. He treated the yankees in the ARod negotiations as if George was still the Boss and he was wrong.
People try to make out Hank as being George II and he’s not.
He and Hal are going to run the team differently. They seem genuinely to have learned form their father’s mistakes.
Another big factor is the Sox – I don’t think you guys are really that enthusiastic to go all in on these free agent contracts either.
Matt Holliday hits the market would either the yankees or sox go crazy? I don’t think so.
Boras will try to press his gains and power even more in teh amateur draft, IMO.
He’s floated the 10 yr/ $200 M figure for Tex – I don’t see it happening.
That’s the reality of the market – teams have gotten burned way too often on these deals.
But we’ll see.
man seriously I’d like to strangle the person that came up w/ that clicker for baseball pitchers. It’s ruined the game in so many ways.
I would like to point out that having a Joba in the bullpen wouldn’t have mattered much –once again– in game in which the starter didn’t get out of the 3rd inning like Joba did.
Pete, thanks for the Cialis bit. I needed a good laugh after another depressing game!
Welcome back crappy Zito
“when people talk about Cole’s bad makeup are they talking about his pitching technique or that he has an “attitude†problem.”
Mark,
They are talking about his attitude. No one says much bad about his arm. Only knocks I’ve seen on him is that he throws across his body and needs to smooth out his mechanics. Normal stuff for a high school prospect.
Pat M. is going to get us some info on how legit the attitude and immaturity issues are as well as a report on his stuff.
“I would like to point out that having a Joba in the bullpen wouldn’t have mattered much –once again– in game in which the starter didn’t get out of the 3rd inning like Joba did.”
Yes, but it might matter tomorrow or the next…or both…
OMG Dynasty when will you stop regressing
mets pouring it on, glad i added pedro to my fantasy team!
“mets pouring it on, glad i added pedro to my fantasy team!”
SNY can’t stop ripping Zito
not that bummed about the yankees tonight, i didnt figure them to win vs. halliday, esp. considering joba’s pitch count. giese was a pleasant suprise. but it did look like maybe they could sneak a win, which this team never seems to do. they lose the one’s you figure they’ll lose, but unfortunatly they dont always win the ones you think they’ll win.
Dynasty, you are correct, it just might matter. It just might. Maybe the Yanks have it all backwards. Perhaps the right call is to shore up the bullpen. Move Joba back, move Wang to the pen, especially Pettitte (he’s usually pretty solid for an inning or two, right?).
So we can have a rotation of Moose, Rasner, and I’m sure they can round up three more guys. The pen will be killer, though.
No, the right call is to leave the bullpen alone when it’s not the problem…
Don’t fix your starting pitching by breaking your bullpen…
Find another way…
They’re the Yankees-they of all teams could do it…
dynast is destiny get a clue.. there pen was 2 guys.. and Joba will be a super starer..
they need to try the guys they have in the minors who are legit prospects…
how long can they go with latroy and kyle?????
dump those jerks….
Nick keeps explaining it to him then people ask why he doesn’t respond, how can you when you get dumb answers like that. The whole point is on a bunch of things
A) your not promised Pettitte or Wang in 09′
B) your not promised Moose
C) if your pen consists of 2 guys and no rotation your going nowhere
D) these are not the future guys for the BP
E) my god I told you yesterday would you give it more than 1 start and this is why because I already knew your trap would start whining and whining about a bullpen that may never be effective unless the SP is solid.
this is is the course whether you like it or not Joba chose it too, this is where his future will be. And stop asking stupid questions..
exp: “Would you like Joba in the bullpen or the rotation ?”
“do you think Joba wants to be in the rotation”
“What guy is going to fill in Joba’s role in the BP”
“Do you think they stay the course w/ Joba in the BP”
SERIOUSLY THIS ISN’T NY1 GIVE THAT STUFF A REST ALREADY
“And stop asking stupid questions..
exp: “Would you like Joba in the bullpen or the rotation ?â€
“do you think Joba wants to be in the rotationâ€
“What guy is going to fill in Joba’s role in the BPâ€
“Do you think they stay the course w/ Joba in the BP—
I don’t remember asking “do you think Joba wants to be in the rotation” or “Do you think they stay the course w/ Joba in the BP” so I don’t know what you’re referring to…
Quote me accurately at least…
As for the other 2 questions, especially:
“What guy is going to fill in Joba’s role in the BP?”
How is that a dumb question? Have you even been watching the games lately?
You must be joking…
1-10 with RISP. Typical Yankees offense this season.
Joba as a starter in 2008 = Rebuilding Season.