Pitching matchups for the Toronto series
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- June
- 3
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Tonight: RHP Roy Halladay (6-5, 2.93) vs. RHP Jobamania (1-2, 2.28), 7:05, YES
Wednesday: RHP Jesse Litsch (7-1, 3.18) vs. RHP Mike Mussina (8-4, 4.26), 7:05, YES, WCBS 880
Thursday: RHP Dustin McGowan (4-4, 3.95) vs. RHP Chien-Ming Wang (6-2, 4.14), 1:05, YES, WCBS 880
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on Tuesday, June 3rd, 2008 at 1:49 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
This looks like a good couple of days. The Yankees should be well below .500 by the time these three games are done.
kyle is lueless.. he cares less then us.. he never understands.
how come the guy has been pitching for 10 yrs. and still does not know where the ball is going..
He sucks..
hey brandon
where did you get that article from?
Go!Jobamania! Go!GO!GO!
Man, look at their starters and ours!
Can we avoid a sweep?
All 3 starters with an ERA under 4. This is going to be ugly.
2.93 ERA and only 6 wins.
what a waste of a perfectly good right arm.
Woohoo!:
9:28pm: Bad news for the Red Sox – DH David Ortiz will miss a significant chunk of the season with his wrist injury. There’s even a chance Ortiz could need season-ending surgery.
Dave Orritz will be replaced by “Bulbhead” Bonds soon. People in Bahhstin are overjoyed.
a couple or 3 thoughts –
1. Your logic is impeccable, Pete (I’m referring to one of your recent posts about Kyle Farnsworth). Kyle is what he is. That’s the conclusion the Yankees finally came to last summer, leading to Joba the relief pitcher. Nothing has changed with Kyle to revise that conclusion. Ergo, he remains untrustworthy in that role. I understand the plan to fill that 8th innning slot with Melancon +/- Cox, but until they come along that spot is still unfilled (unless you go to Edwar or someone else, but that’s another discussion). So, it seems to me, that Cash and Joe have made a conscious decision to roll the dbuice with Kyle, but it ain’t working. So unless they’re OK with losing games like last night, they should put Edwar, Veras, Ollie in that spot and try them out. How much worse can it be? Whether they give up 1 run, like Kyle, or 10, it still counts as just one loss.
2. Speaking of last night, Andy has had this problem of blowing up mid-game for the past 3-4 weeks, it seems. Someone was posting yesterday that we should have gotten someone like Livan Hernandez, an innings-eater. Well, I will put it to you all that we do have a Livan Hernandez type – Andy. Their lines were similar last night. Andy gives you innings, and has been pitching to a 4.5-5 ERA. I didn’t think it was too pretty, but, like Livan, he kept the team in position to stay close and “competitive”. Personally, I’d rather something better.
3. David Ortiz being out of Boston’s lineup can potentially have a similar effect to Alex being out of our lineup. It changes how pitchers approach the other batters. Even though Ortiz was hitting .250, he still had his power and reputation. Manny, as well as the hitter before Ortiz’s spot in that lineup will be handled a lot differently now.
I wonder if there was some tear in that ligament that was bothering him all season.
“I wonder if there was some tear in that ligament that was bothering him all season.”
Read up on this in the Boston papers:
1)It had not been a season long issue. He hurt it with a swing Saturday night in Baltimore.
2)His tendon is not torn or even damaged. If it were, it would likely be lights out for the year. What is damaged is the sheath or compartment that’s home to the tendon. It’s partially torn. They say it’s somewhat comparable to what Schilling went thru with his ankle back in ‘04. He’ll likely need surgery at some point, but they seem to think the month will allow it to heal enough to play without pain and the surgery can be put off til the offseason. He’s out of the Sox lineup til after the break for sure though.
I don’t think I’ve seen half of these posters before.
Apparently Jobamania is so big it won’t be broadcast on WCBS tonight…. LOL
“Apparently Jobamania is so big it won’t be broadcast on WCBS tonight…. LOL”
Seriously??? Why not?? Election crapola??
Some Managers and fans have one thing in common.
They tend to see players as they were or want them to be as opposed to what they are.
Girardi has to realize certain players aren’t what he wants them to be and manage accordingly.
Pete is correct, this isn’t on Farnsworth. Its on the people who put him in the position to fail.
The same can be said for Pettitte. Look, we all love Pettitte. However, he’s not the same guy who won a 1-0 game in the ‘96 World Series. Not even close.
He has been blowing multi-run leads all season. Its not one or two starts. Its been a season long problem. He has not pitched well and all the rah rah and cheerleading in the world from some fans do not change the results.
Now, before the Trisha’s of the world lose their minds, I don’t HATE Andy Pettitte. Just giving a review of his performance this year. If folks are unable to see the difference between critical analysis and hate, that’s on them, not me.
When you see players fail the same way with regularity you can’t continue to put them in those positions to fail. You make adjustments. Thus far, and its admittedly early in Girardi’s tenure, he has been slow to change.
We saw Torre do the same thing with Bernie Williams. It got to the point where Bernie embarrassed himself so badly in a Mets series, they were forced to take him out of CF. You hate to see it get to that point before you make adjustments.
Its blind spot managers who get too close to their players have and it hurts the team.
When it comes to Pettitte and Farnsworth, its clear Girardi is too emotionally invested in both of them to make good decisions on their use. He caught Pettitte and is very close friends with him. Its clear he has staked a lot in Farnsworth. Not exactly the guy you want to hitch your credibility wagon to, IMO. At some point, these type of mistakes begin to erode at a manager’s credibility with his players. Girardi has to make sure it doesn’t get to that point.
One of the problems with “rebuilding on the fly” is, you often never go far enough. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
That’s what the Yankees seem to want here and its not working.
If you are going to transition Joba this soon into the rotation (the right move, REGARDLESS of this year’s results), why stop there?
Why not put Edwar in the 8th inning and see what he can do?
If you don’t see Edwar as an 8th inning guy, why not do the 8th inning by committee until Melancon or someone else is ready?
Why by so headstrong that the 8th is Farnsworth’s inning regardless of results? He certainly hasn’t EARNED the spot and its clear to anybody who is emotionally detached from this that he isn’t the guy for the 8th inning.
It doesn’t make sense because you end up doing the one thing you are trying to avoid. Over-emphasizing the importance of the 8th inning.
The game was lost last night because they couldn’t hit with RSIP and their starter blew 3 leads. Farnsworth’s implosion was icing on the cake.
They can no longer hit their way out of their mistakes. Something they had been able to do with regularity the past 3 years. That’s not happening with this year’s team. That’s why the little things. moving guys over, defense, fundamental play, etc, DO make a difference.
Girardi has to make better in game decisions and put players in a better position to win. Last night, that was not done.
The Yankees are now -8 for the season in run differential. Why is that important? Its a pretty strong indicator as to what type of team you are.
Even when they struggled last year, they were always in the plus column in run differential. It shows that those who believe they will just turn it on and win because they did it last year, may have to re-think that belief.
Its going to take more than, “they did it last year, it will happen again” for it to happen this season.
Fredo – You’re right about what’s being reported by the Boston papers. Still, I wonder if there was something there. As we’ve seen, sometimes teams are less than completely truthful when it comes to reporting injuries.
This might put that All Star promotion to rest.
Anyone know if Joba was able to get his father to NY? I read in my paper that he was trying to.
sj
i agree with you about pettitte’s and farnsworth’s current abilities, or lack thereof. but here’s the problem for girardi, he has no choices. he has left andy and everyone else in games too long, but he doesnt have a bullpen so its pick your poison. same with farns, we dont have anybody currently in the b/p who can do the job, so he goes with the guy most experienced at it.
its not on joe, its on cashman. this is a terrible pitching staff.
Schadenfeude.
The good news here on Ortiz is the All-Star game promotional pointing home run goes away, and Hideki Matsui is currently runner-up in the voting to Mr. Nimble.
I can’t weight until Joba pitches against Bartolo Colon. Duel of the fatboys…
Y’s guy – I respectfully disagree. Girardi does have options in the pen – Edwar, Ollie, Veras and Britton. He has repeatedly made conscious decisions to go to Kyle, over and over, in the face of evidence that Kyle can’t get the job done, and others may be able to.
I can see where Joe left Andy in to save RPs for Joba’s start tonight, but anybody other than Kyle would have made more sense. You know what you’re getting with Kyle, and it’s not good. We don’t yet have a track record with game on the line with others, but, for Pete’s sake (not PA), let’s give them a try.
RhapsodyInBlue
another demoralizing loss last night, failures all around.
but every time i decide its time to lower my expectations, i look at the news from elsewhere and i see that the opportunity to get back into the pennant race is still there.
we’re 4 games behind boston in the loss column, they’re slumping and ortiz may be down for a while. yes, the rays are playing great, but its still only 1/3 of a season and its not known yet how thier kids will stand up to an a.l. east pennant race.
however, it has become apparent that this team, as currently constructed, pretty much sucks. they are at best a .500 team right now.
if we are going to make it into the pennant race, we are going to need major contributions from guys like joba as a starter, phil, melancon, and the like. also need robbie cano to show up. the hitting is coming around slowly but surely, but the pitching staff is HORRIBLE!
still, the schedule is favorable and the bats are coming around, its all up to the pitching staff to decide whether we’re buyers or sellers at the trade deadline.
“He certainly hasn’t EARNED the spot and its clear to anybody who is emotionally detached from this that he isn’t the guy for the 8th inning.”
Nobody has EARNED it either. I’m guessing Girardi is thinking to some degree “better the devil you know…”. No matter what, he is in the position of putting an unproven/unreliable entity in that spot til someone can grab it. To this point, nobody has come close.
I’d really like to see JB Cox get a call up.
Agree re: the starting side of things, disagree re: the bullpen.
Good bullpen use is often about going with the hot hand. Its not as scientific (for lack of a better word) as running a starting rotation.
The best Non-Mariano pitcher in the bullpen right now is Edwar Ramirez. He’s also the only guy with swing and miss stuff among Girardi’s options.
Why not use him in the spot? Or, just do it by committee.
My beef is this. He just gave Farnsworth the 8th inning and despite his struggles in 8th innings (not just this year but, every year he has been in NY), he remains headstrong and won’t change. That’s a mistake, IMO.
There are a number of players on the team ticked off about Joba going into the rotation. They can live (at least the guys who know they will be back next year) with that decision. But, if you add to their anger, Farnsworth to the 8th inning no matter what, there will be a clubhouse problem on the team.
He has to avoid that at all costs.
Dedicated to Manny and those upcoming summer late night 13 inning games, when you really need his bat to come through, like we all know he can.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fkkM7K6smQA
Fredo,
Edwar hasn’t earned a shot? The guy has given up one run all year. He’s pitched in heavy lifting situations.
Why not try him? He’s pitched better than anybody but Mo in the ‘pen.
To me, its at least worth a look.
“I respectfully disagree. Girardi does have options in the pen”
and i agree with this. he’s stuck in the mentality that all he needs to do is show that he’s got confidence in Farnsworth, and all of a suddent he’s going to be the lockdown late inning guy he’s never been.
i can also understand why Pettitte came out to pitch the 7th last night, although it really did surprise me.
i didnt think id see a conflict of interest here, but you wonder how much of this confidence in these guys, the pettittes and the fanrsworths of the team, has to do with his previous relationship and familiarity to them as opposed to the unproven nature of some of the young guys in the bullpen?
do i think its a conscious decision to favor players he knows over younger guys he doesnt? no, not really, but maybe subconsciously, its in the back of his mind that is altering his real ability to objectively determine who should get opportunities in the games as they present themselves? it makes you at least wonder.
Interesting thought from SJ about the clubhouse aspect of Kyle-in-the-8th.
I wonder if the pitching issues, esp. bullpen, leads the regulars to do some foolish things to get runs – like overly aggressive running the bases, or hitters being overly aggressive at-bat, trying to pull everything…Stressful ABs, feeling that unless you score a lot of runs you can’t win, no faith in winning low-scoring games. Like pitchers with no run support, trying to be too fine and pitching to avoid contact.
Blowing leads can definitely have a demoralizing effect on the lineup and team.
Ys Guy -
I don’t think he left Andy in too long. His pitch count was good. Andy did not pitch well last not, obviously, but he was not way horrible, and he did leave with the score tied (by his own doing, I realize). They needed him to pitch as long as he could because of Joba’s outing today, where they know going in it’s at least a 3 to 4 pitcher affair.
As ineffective as Pettitte was, the offense could/should have put the game away, early and often. They’re not getting it done, for whatever reason. Has the league caught up with the Yankees hitting style? Or are they simply the tightest bunch of hitters going?
SJ44 -
I was thinking the same thing last night regarding how Girardi feels about, specifically, Pettitte. It can’t be easy to be objective about someone who you’ve played with and who you’ve seen be unbelievable. Andy, after the game, didn’t seem to think his “stuff” was bad, nor did he think his overall location was bad, just a few mistakes. And that may be so, be his mistakes are really captilized upon these days.
As far as Kyle goes, well, they have this contract that they’ve apparently decided they’re not going eat, and so they may as well try to get the best out of Kyle. Who knows what Girardi REALLY thinks of him, but he’s certainly given him the rope with which to hang himself as far as the 8th inning spot goes. It really is amazing to me that a guy can do fine in the 7th inning and not so much one inning later. Makes no real sense. With Kyle, I think it’s a bit of wishful thinking, a bit of “confidence boosting” and a bit of “we have him, he costs a lost of money, we have to use him.” Well, they’re going to have to use him differently.
I really do hope that they try something new next time around, but I’m not holding my breath on that.
Just want to say that a lot of the posts from last night through to this morning drove me absolutely crazy with the deals that woulda/shoulda/coulda been made, etc., etc., and how much more money the Yankees should be spending. I can’t even begin to comment on this. It’s basically the same old rehashed drivel without real thought behind it for the most part.
On postgame, suzy said she heard someone say we didn’t lose this game cause of Kyle.
this toronto series will be an interesting one.
two underachieving teams battling for the middle position in the pennant race.
toronto cant hit and the yankees cant pitch.
vernon wells leads the jays in rbi even though he broke his wrist almost a month ago. thier next best hitter is playing for oakland right now.
this is no time for the yankees to be hanging thier heads. they’ve got to keep struggling to win every game they can now, b/c there is a good chance that the pitching staff (at least the starters) will be better in the second half and the job till then is to stay as close as possible to the lead.
I thought last night’s game was just another collective collapse by the entire team.RISP.
Let’s not forget the screw-up ball relay from Cano to Jeter at second base allowing that base runner to score, in prolonging the inning giving the Twins a forth out.
Y’s hit the nail on the head.
The good news is, they are within striking distance in the race.
The bad news is, the team as presently constucted is not good enough to be more than what they are. A .500 team.
I don’t get caught up with names. I look at results. The results so far show the team for what they are. 80-82 wins at best unless guys either play better or better players are brought into the mix.
I’d be more aggressive with promotions over the next month. Lane for Duncan. Gardner for the bench, speed and defense, and Cox, Melancon and Robertson, if he can get the walks down. They are going to have to find out about these guys at some point. It might as well be this season.
I hope Phil can be ready by the All Star Break to return to the rotation. If it means sitting an underperforming veteran, so be it.
The big issue is Cano. He has no competition at his position and a new contract. In other words, aside from pride, nobody is pushing him to get it going.
They may have to make a deal to bring somebody in (Freel?) who can light a fire under him.
There isn’t a team in sports that doesn’t improve if you provide competition for playing time.
Its when guys know they are playing no matter how badly they play is when you have issues.
i know everybody hated kyle, and he deserves it, but andy pettitte blew 2 2run leads last night and the offense missed several opportunities to bring in runs with productive outs, so focusing on kyle is just scapegoating.
I’ll say what I said a few days ago, the only two players on this team who have played consistently good defensive ball throughout this season are Molina and Melky.
As far as Melky’s gaffe in center the other night, it wouldn’t have happened on natural grass, the Twinkie Dome is a dump, pure and simple.
I only hope they don’t sabotage Joba this evening with their gloves like they have every pitcher, but then why should Joba be any different?
Everyone with the exception of Alex played like garbage last night. Bobby was 0-5.
i wanted to point out that cano did bust it down the line on two groundballs and just beat the plays at first, so at least credit him with continuing to hustle through the slump.
also, the play at 2B with the bad exchange with jeter wasnt really a bad play on either guys part, it was and almost-excellent play that they just couldnt pull off. cano got way up the middle to get to the ball and had to throw it almost backwards to jeter who had to take his eye off the base to try and catch it. it looked pretty sloppy, but in reality it was a single up the middle that robbie almost made a great play on.
so his hitting does suck, but he’s still doing other things right and i take that as a positive and hope he’ll start hitting soon.
“Edwar hasn’t earned a shot? The guy has given up one run all year. He’s pitched in heavy lifting situations.”
Earning a shot and earing the job are two different things. He’s earns the shot virtually by default, though he has pitched well. He’s unproven is high leverage situations, as he’s only been in a few this season and he was marginally successful:
1) Faced 7 Orioles in a tie game last week. Faced 7 batters, 3 got basehits but Abreu tossed Millar out at home on a single to keep the game tied.
2) Finished the 7th inning in by retiring 2 batters on 5 pitches with the Yankees up two runs in Minny, earning his 1st hold.
3)Next night in Minnesota. Comes into the game with the Yanks leading 6-4, allows an inherited runner to score (not on him as Wang left him 1st and 3rd w/ one out) then gives up a homer to Cuddyer to tie the game earning his 1st blown save.
That’s it. So he’s miles from money in the bank in that spot.
There’s plenty of blame to go around, but I haven’t seem Moeller get his share yet. Pettitte is famous for letting the catcher call the game, and that pitch to Mauer, plus a couple more were just the wrong pitches. Girardi said domething like he doesn’t talk publicly about pitch selection, but he clearly wasn’t happy about it. Pettitte properly took the blame, because it’s ultimately his decision, but when he was talking about the “most ignorant pitch” I’m pretty sure that was on Moeller.
Doreen,
Pitchers always say, “I had one bad inning” or, “I made a couple of bad pitches”.
Kind of like the Crash Davis baseball cliches he was teaching Nook LaLoosh on the bus in Bull Durham. lol
In most cases, all it takes is one bad inning to lose a game.
Andy is a smart guy. He knows blowing 3 leads in a game is unacceptable.
What can you do? He’s past his prime, pitching on guts more than stuff, and this is what you get. Inconsistent outings. That’s what happens with older pitchers with a lot of miles on their arms.
Its up to Girardi to manage accordingly in that situation.
Should he have left him in last night? Yes. However, after last night, I don’t leave him in games anymore with leads heading into the 7th inning. He hasn’t held them all year and at some point, winning games is more important than stroking egos.
As far as second guessing deals, that’s as foolish as people who believe everything is rosy and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong. Its two extremes to the issue and neither side is correct.
Since 2005, the Yankees have tried very hard to become a true baseball organization again. To that end, they have done a lot right and some things wrong.
One thing they haven’t done is burden the franchise with bad contracts after this season.
Arod, Mo, Jeter, Posada, Wang and Chamberlain are probably the only 6 guys on the entire roster who are assured of being back next year. Everybody else is in play. It will give them flexibility this off-season to remake the team.
Some guys will be back, many of them won’t. But, they will have flexibility. Something they haven’t had in years because of bad contracts.
Make no mistake, this team needs to be remade. Their style of play is yesterday’s baseball. We see it every night. Its why they look so slow and dead most nights.
I know some fans want to live in denial but, this is the transition season. They are not taking on more payroll to save this team.
If the veterans can’t play anymore, then the second half of the season will have a lot of younger players on the roster.
Just follow what’s happening with all the minor league promotions, Joba to the rotation, etc to see where it going.
I’m not saying Edwar is money in the bank in that spot. I’m saying they have to move away from a guy (Farnsworth) who has shown time and time again, he’s not the guy for that spot.
They can try Edwar or do it by committee until they guy they want to fill the spot (Melancon) is ready in another month or so. Just giving it to Farnsworth by default is a mistake, IMO.
Before folks go crazy and say, “He’s a rookie”. So was Joba Chamberlain. How did that work out last year?
Some guys are just good, regardless of their age. IMO, Melancon is one of those guys.
He just needs more time to build up his arm strength.
Is everyone afraid to criticize St. Derek? He didn’t get to the bag, and he dropped an easy toss because he was looking for the base. The only reason he wasn’t charged with an error had to be because the batter’s mother was the official scorer.
One of the least discussed issues on this blog is how mediocre this team is defensively. They rarely take a hit away from the other guy, but they frequently give extra outs/bases. I’d love to see Jeter at 1B and Gonzales at SS… or Jeter at 3B and A-Rod at 1B. Either way the infield would be improved defensively. Once Abreu’s ocntract runs out finding a RF who isn’t afraid of the warning track (it’s not a moat Bobby!) becomes a priority.
“Melancon” sounds like a character from Star Trek.
“One of the least discussed issues on this blog is how mediocre this team is defensively”
They need to improve a bit before they achieve mediocrity.
86w183
Where have you been? Defense or the lack of it has been the on-going topic of discussion forever.
One of the least discussed issues on this blog is how mediocre this team is defensively.
““Melancon†sounds like a character from Star Trek.”
Not if you pronounce it correctly.
It’s Mel-AN-son
We always talk about how poor defensively the team is.
Its just that some of us that say it daily (like myself) get ripped by the cheerleaders on the blog as “haters”. lol
You are correct, its a poor defensive team and it shows every night.
SJ:
Are you in Fla???? If so, did you catch McCallister’s 1st start with Tampa? Looking at the numbers, it comes off as not great (4 runs, 8 baserunners in 4 IP), yet not awful (4 K’s and a walk). You see or hear any assessments?
Only thing I heard about McAllister’s first start was he was a little tired (quick travel turnaround) and a little off. Nothing alarming.
I’m going to check out his next start and Christian Garcia’s stop this week.
i wouldn’t let farnsworth pitch to a left handed hitter in a tie or one run game. whatever than means for mix and matching. ramirez for one lefty. whatever it takes.
craig breslow is a situational lefty the yankees passed on when he was on waivers last week. the twins picked him up. if the yankees are going to need three pitchers to get through an important inning, they are going to have to get creative.
This is a .500 team that lost 3 weeks of ARod and 5-6 weeks of Posada.
That’s a solid chunk of the offense, poof, replaced by the likes of Gonzalez, Betemit, Ensberg, Molina, and Moeller (basically, replacement level, no?).
Last year, ARod had a VORP of 96.6. Let’s regress that down to just 80, just for the sake of argument (he had a 51.6 in 2006, 91 in 2005). Last year, Posada had a VORP of 73.4. I’m going to knock that down to ~ 2006’s 38, and call it 40.
Arod played 158 games last year. Let’s say he would have played 160 this year, barring injury. That’s a VORP/game of 0.5.
Posada played 144 games last year. I’ll call it 145 this year, barring injury. That’s a VORP/game of 0.276.
ARod has missed 20 games this year. He usually plays everyday, so I’ll give him a full 20 game allocation.
Posada has missed 39 games. He usually has a day off now and again, so I’ll say he would have missed 4 days, and has missed 35 games.
We’ve lost ~10 runs from ARod and ~10 from Posada this year. Ouch.
I’m pretty new to the site, so if I’ve missed a lot of discussion on defense that’s on me. My hope for last off-season was to sign Hunter and move Melky to RF… that would improve both positions defensively AND improve LH/RH offensive imbalance.
I’m wondering how much longer you guys think Jeter should stay at SS? I’ve always thought he’s be a great LF becasue of how well he tracks balls in the air. How about A-Rod to 1B and picking up either Bill Hall who needs a fresh start somewhere or Adrian Beltre who can be had?
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