Game 59: Blue Jays at Yankees
-
- June
- 4
YANKEES
Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Betemit 1B
Cano 2B
Molina C
Cabrera CF
Mussina RHP
BLUE JAYS
Stewart LF
Scutaro 2B
Rios CF
Rolen 3B
Stairs DH
Overbay 1B
Barajas C
Wilkerson RF
Eckstein SS
Litsch RHP
Mike Mussina (8-4, 4.26) vs. the Toronto hitters.
Jesse Litsch (7-1, 3.18) vs. the New York hitters.
Notes: Johnny Damon has hit in 12 straight at 24 of 53 with nine RBI and only one strikeout. … Derek Jeter is 7 of his last 13. … Bobby Abreu is 0 for his last 11. … Jason Giambi has hit in seven straight at 10 of 28. He’s up to .253. He was hit in the left foot last night, which must be why he’s not playing. We’ll find out later. … Robinson Cano is 5 of his last 36 and is down to .216. … The Yankees have 5 hits in their last 34 at-bats with RISP. … The Yankees have eight errors and seven GIPDs in the last seven games and have been picked off three times.
UPDATE, 5:16 p.m.: Jorge Posada has been activated off the disabled list but is not in the lineup. He repeated what he said several weeks ago, that he will need surgery on his labrum after the season but that he can get through the rest of the season. … Dan Giese was optioned back to Scranton. … Giambi has a sore foot but is available and is expected back tomorrow. … No word on LaTroy Hawkins’ appeal of his suspension. … talked to Ian Kennedy who hopes to be throwing off a mound in five days or so. … Brian Bruney is throwing off a chair as he continues to rest his fractured foot. “I’m throwing pretty hard considering,” he said. “I could get high school guys out.”
Back with more later.
UPDATE, 6:13 p.m.: The Big G was nowhere to be found in the clubhouse or BP today. Seems he was getting treatment. Through a team spokesman, he sent out some info. His foot is sore, there’s a little swelling but he’s going to test it out before the game and see if he’s available.
UPDATE, 7:05 p.m.: Great stuff from Chad Jennings in his blog today. He talked to a scout about some of the organization’s pitchers. The scout sees Dan McCutchen being an effective reliever, which is something I’ve believed since seeing him in spring training. He also likes Alfredo Aceves, who is rocketing through the system.
UPDATE, 8:01 p.m.: The Captain now has 2,416 hits, one more than Mickey Mantle. He’s alone in third place in team history. Fittingly, it was to drive in a run and give the Yankees a lead. The crowd gave him an ovation and he lifted his helmet while standing at first base.
He’s 8 of his last 15.
UPDATE, 8:17 p.m.: How about the Moose? He has allowed four hits but no runs through four innings and has fanned four. It’s amazing what a turnaround he has had this season.
UPDATE, 8:39 p.m.: It’s raining at the Stadium, just lightly. It’s an official game. … Meanwhile, the Yanks are all over Litsch.
UPDATE, 9:01 p.m.: Moose got squeezed there by C.B. Bucknor or he might not have allowed a run. I thought he has Rios struck out.
Now the question becomes whether Girardi lets him out for the seventh with 103 pitches. The bottom of the order is up. Overbay, Barajas, Wilkerson and Eckstein are 1 for 8 with 3 Ks. Leave Moose in. The less bullpen, the better.
UPDATE, 9:29 p.m.: So, does Moose follow Cliff Lee in the All-Star Game? Meanwhile, if the Yankees hold on, this will be win No. 259 for him. Given that he pitched in the AL East his entire career in the heart of the Steroids Era, Mussina should get a lot of consideration for the Hall of Fame once he retires.
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Joe said last night that they took xrays which were negtive but that he was day to day
“Robinson Cano is 5 of his last 36 and is down to .216. … The Yankees have 5 hits in their last 34 at-bats with RISP. … The Yankees have eight errors and seven GIPDs in the last seven games and have been picked off three times.”
S.A. — my thoughts exactly.
Those are pathetic stats. We’ve seen the same stuff since the beginning of the season. Posada is not going to change that.
Bet chill w/ the swinging at breaking balls , get that 32 % LD going.
Has Robinson Cano ever gone this long in his professional career without regular access to candy?
He could be one Charleston Chew away from a breakout game!
Don’t know if this is relevant, but Abreau doesn’t have a hit since he hit the twins pitcher in the face. Maybe he needs a day off?
The more you watch Robbie Cano play the more you think his long term value to the Yankees, as it was with Soriano, will come in a trade.
He’s so talented yet so inconsistent.
Sure, he may get hot and hit .350 the second half of the year.
But, its more than just that. Its WHEN you hit and when you play well.
So many wasted AB’s and lazy plays in the field.
Its going to be very interesting to see how the Yankees handle Cano the rest of this year and the off-season.
They went against their usual plan and gave this kid a 30 million dollar deal this early in his career.
Thus far, he has paid them back by being one of the worst everyday players in the AL so far this year.
That ain’t good and that can’t be making the powers that be with the Yankees very happy.
The bad baserunning, awful hitting with RISP and poor defense are not surprises. Those are three major weaknesses of this team and a big reason why its in last place.
So is one other stat: In 205 bullpen innings this year, the Yankees lead all AL teams in allowing 24 HR’s so far this year.
Combine all of the above and its not surprising where the team currently resides in the standings.
I think they each need a Baby Ruth bar …. a miniature if it makes Girardi feel better. They are playing like children because he is treating them like children. Must suck for his real kids @ Halloween.
Who does Betemit have naked pictures of … why else would he still be on the team?
At least Jorge’s going to be back and he can smack some guys around in the dugout. Yes, I’m talking about you, Robbie.
“Don’t know if this is relevant, but Abreau doesn’t have a hit since he hit the twins pitcher in the face. Maybe he needs a day off?”
for who ? Shelley “BAM BAM WHIFF” Duncan ? it’s amazing he’s still on this roster hopefully today will be the end of it.
“I think they each need a Baby Ruth bar …. a miniature if it makes Girardi feel better. They are playing like children because he is treating them like children.”
What was their excuse last year around this time?
“Who does Betemit have naked pictures of … why else would he still be on the team?”
because he can hit.
Robinson Cano is, without a doubt, my least favorite Yankee player.
I find it incredibly hard to root for him.
I have more love for Farnsworth and Hawkins than I do for Cano right now.
Farns and Hawkins are at least being who they are.
Cano on the other hand is a shell of himself.
If the Yankees actually had any guts, they would take him out of the starting lineup for an indefinite amount of time.
Just come out and say he’s no longer the starting 2b.
Bring up someone from AAA (Bernie Castro, Nick Green, Ransom or AG) and make Cano watch them from the bench.
Last season Damon didn’t begin to start showing up for games until Torre took his position away from him and Shelley showed up threatening his role on the team further.
I don’t know if the lack of a real threat to his position is making Cano complacent because I do think the guy is pressing a ton…but I also know he’s doing nothing to help this team win and if he wants to be a starter, he should have to play like one.
Look at Giambi who we all wanted DFA’d a few weeks back. He finally made the adjustment and is starting to attempt to hit balls to LF. Giambi going to LF to beat the shift raised his avg. 100 points in a couple of weeks.
Cano is showing no signs of adjusting. He’s stubborn and his baseball IQ looks low to me at times. His body language is all wrong. The guy looks defeated.
If he hits .400 in July and August, it still won’t matter because he is not helping the team in April, May and early into June. We should be building up leads in the standings now, but because we have so many guys not playing to their potentials, we’re a .500 team…barely.
I’d like to see Girardi and Cashman shake things up. I’m not talking about mass trades and DFA’s, but putting Cano on the bench for a hungrier player who might help.
If you sit every player on the Yankees who go hitless for a few games, you won’t be able to field a team.
Its also not like they have anybody on the bench who can hit.
Call me crazy but, when a team isn’t hitting, sitting down the leading RBI guy on the team doesn’t seem like a smart strategy.
I thought Posada was going to DH tonight?
Pete, Giambi was HIT in the foot, he didn’t foul it off. Ya know, another Yankee HBP…A-rod in the first inning, Giambi later in the game. Out of control
Brandon-
He can also ground into a double play.
OOps I meant to write he can also strike out
Should be an interesting game tonight. CB Buckner is behind the plate. On with the show !
I wonder when the suspension is coming for Halladay for throwing at A-Rod. Ooops, I guess suspensions only come for those who don’t even hit batters.
remember when everybody wanted giambi benched or dfa’d? well fortunatly, joe didnt listen and kept putting him out there and now he’s raking.
so now its, bench cano. i can understand the frustration but joe is sticking by him hoping he’ll come out of it just like giambi did. i wouldnt mind seeing joe sit him for a day or two to clear his head, but if we’re gonna put together a run for the playoffs, we need robbie to be on his game. and replacing him with a.g. isnt going to improve the team.
one other thing on robbie, he is a laid back player and people seem to think he isnt trying because of it. he busted it down the line twice to beat out groundouts in minny the other night and almost made a really nice play behind 2nd on the ball that jeter dropped.
i dont see a lack of effort there.
sara, citing a guy being hit in the toe with a curveball as being an intentional hbp is one of the stupidest things ive read on this blog in days.
I wouldn’t bench Cano for two reasons. One, they don’t have anybody better to play second base. Not offensively or defensively.
Gonzalez is a SS, not a second baseman and Castro isn’t that good. Nor is he on the 40 man roster.
You play him and hope he gets going. When he does, you look to deal him.
That’s right, I said trade him.
When he is on, he would bring more value back in trade than he will give the Yankees over the long haul.
JMO but, I don’t think they need a guy to be an all star at second base to win titles.
They won championships with Luis Sojo, Mariano Duncan, Jose Vizcaino and Chuck Knoblauch (hitting Keith Olberman’s mom with throws no less) playing second base. Its not a need position.
You need a solid defender, a guy who can handle the bat and play fundamentally sound baseball. A little speed also wouldn’t hurt.
They won with those guys because the team had more balance.
If Cano was a base stealer or a plus defender, I could live with the slumps.
But, like Soriano, he’s an extremely limited player. Very talented but very limited. He isn’t fast, hits without great power and is very, very inconsistent.
If the Yankees have the onions, he’s the guy I move for the right deal.
Let him be the “next Rod Carew” elsewhere. I’ll take a deal to bring back two good players (which is what he will fetch when he starts hitting again, IMO) and continue remaking the team.
Just can’t do it now because that would be selling low and I would avoid that at all costs.
Jeepers, at least the Yankee suspensions are coming on fastballs. If one of our guys got suspended for beaning someone with a 77 mph breaking ball, I’d just lose it!
Active Hit by pitch leaders, I think Manny is at 88.Check out the Yankee players.
Rank Player (age) Hit By Pitch Bats
1. Jason Kendall (34) 225 R
2. Carlos Delgado* (36) 162 L
3. Jason Giambi* (37) 143 L
4. Derek Jeter (34) 134 R
5. Alex Rodriguez (32) 131 R
6. Gary Sheffield (39) 130 R
7. Damion Easley (38) 125 R
8. David Eckstein (33) 122 R
9. Jeff Kent (40) 120 R
10. Jose Guillen (32) 115 R
great another night watching Jose Molina at bat..
the only at bats less attractive are the Cano AB’s which most including myself are not real thrilled with..
I pray g-d today is the last day I will have to see Molina AB’s on a daily basis, once or twice a week is enough.
Wow trading Cano…..I cannot believe he has not heard a thousand times to be more disciplined at the plate, can he be that stupid?
Its not about busting it down the line. That’s only one form of showing hustle and focus. Cano is a lazy player in other ways.
Wasted AB’s flailing at balls no where near the zone. Lazy plays at second. Not putting his body in front of Molina’s throw last night. Those are just lazy plays and that is his MO. He’s a lazy player.
With Giambi, let’s balance it out a bit. Yes, he has hit better than earlier in the year. Then again, he couldn’t get any worse.
He also got his first hit all season last night with 2 outs and RISP. Not exactly “clutch”.
Add in his defense, which is awful, and the question is, are the Yankees getting 23 million dollars worth of production from Giambi this year? No, they aren’t.
Hopefully, he keeps it up. However, a had a couple of hot weeks does not make him a productive player over the long haul.
I hope it leads to that but, its a little early to make that call right now.
okay, so that shows that giambi got hit on purpose on the foot with a curveball?
if he tried to hit him on the foot with a curve 100 times, i’d say he’d miss at least 98 times.
Um…SJ, you’re right about just about everything re: Cano except that he actually *is* a plus defender. Plus/Minus ranked Cano as being one of the top five defensive second basemen last year, and this season THT’s RZR has Cano third among AL 2nd basemen with a .847 rating and 5 OOZ plays (tied for fifth). Combine that with his plus arm, and it’s a bit absurd to claim that Cano is a one-dimensional player the way Soriano was (e.g., purely offensive).
Yes, Cano is struggling offensively right now. Yes, he has abandoned all strike zone discipline this season. But he started similarly slowly last year, and if he’s still one of the worst offensive players after the All Star Break, then I’ll start to be seriously concerned about his long-term future. He’s still one of the few second basemen this side of Chase Utley who has serious superstar upside in all the major leagues…
SJ perhaps you should realize that Jason got hit on the foot last night so badly that he had to go for xrays and that Girardi said he was day to day. KNowing his pension for injuries already as it is I say give him the day and let it heal even more it will help in the long run.
Cano’s strike zone discipline has actually improved this season. The trouble is that the pitches he is deciding to swing at are horrible. But he is walking more and seeing more pitches.
how are melky’s stats over the past 10 games?
That’s 10 OOZ (out-of-zone) plays, not five. Furthermore, Cano has some decent doubles power for a second basemen; there aren’t a lot of average-fielding second basemen with a lot of power, let alone plus (or potential plus)-fielding second basemen with a lot of power. While Cano does not have a lot of power, he has enough to be a major net offensive plus at an up-the-middle position, and that’s just not something a lot of teams can boast.
Cano might not ever be a superstar player, or a Hall of Fame player, but I’ll be shocked if he isn’t in the discussion for top-3 AL second baseman for the next five or six years.
How can you call it lazy play when it is more positioning rather than playing lazy?
Jorge will need surgery this offseason:
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2008/06/posada_will_need_surgery_after.html
Apologies if that was already posted.
Ah man I thought Jorge boy was gonna DH now what reason do i have to watch this game! Bring up someone from the farm for Chrissakes this bullpen gives me indigestion
this is bad im talking 05 bad tim redding, darrell may, buddy groom bad
lets face it you, me, cash, hank and a 5 year old in north korea and girardi knows that giambi wont be worth his contract value, period. but girardi is also smart enough to know that shelley duncan wasnt going to hit this team into first place. same with cano, you have to stick with him, ignore the contract and try to get the best you can out of him.
as for the lacadaisical defense this is not new to this season. they knew all about that stuff before they signed him to a multi year deal, so calling him out on that is a little late. the only thing different with him so far this year is his lack of hitting and horrible pitch selection, which are imo one and the same problem.
I think me and a couple of guys from the weekend softball league could pitch better than the vaunted Veras, Ramirez,Hawkins and Farnsy
ok so be honest, how many of you on here were begging for edwar as the 8th ining guy yesterday?
dont make me go look it up and quote you….
Not I, Edwar is a one pitch-pitcher always has been always will be that stuff works in AAA but not here
Cano has been extraordinarily frustrating both this year and last.
When he is gong bad - he looks as bad a hitter can.
But I would not trade him. It’s far too early to do that, IMO.
He’s so much better than the average second baseman that Cano is a unique weapon that they just can’t deal until they are certain that he’s reached his ceiling.
Last year, in what was arguably the best year of his career, ARod was 11.3 wins better than a replacement level third baseman.
For one player to contribute 11.3 wins to a team over a season is an enormous amount.
Why do I bring up ARod? Because in terms of contributing to the yankees winning games last year, Cano was their second most important player last year.
Cano last year provided the yanees with 9.4 wins above a replacement level second baseman.
That’s how much better Cano is than a replacement level second baseman. I don’ think anyone thought Cano had a career year for him last year. Despite that he contributed only 2 fewer wins to the yankees than ARod did, in a career year.
That’s not saying Cano is as good as ARod. That more tells you about how bad replacement or league average second baseman are.
Much of cano value comes both on the offensive and defensive side. Cano saved the yanees around 20 runs defensively last year compared to an average second baseman.
You can’t give up on a 10 win above replacement player. You just can’t - they are far too rare.
I definitely wouldn’t trade Cano now. It’d be dumb.
If he gets his avg. back up to .300 by seasons end, I deal him in a heartbeat though.
I don’t think AG is the answer at 2b either. I kind of wish Betemit was competent enough in the field to play 2b for a few games to give Cano some pine time.
I just think it’s all mental with Cano. He’s clearly not playing to his potential due to some conflict in his head.
I get screamed at on here when I suggest Cashman giving him the money was wrong, but I’ve been saying it since they gave it to him.
He could be one of those guys who plays for money and fame over winning and the fact that he’s guaranteed to make more money than he could have dreamed of in his youth may have sapped his desire or at least confused him enough to have him come out of the gates like this.
There is a reason why the arbitration system works. Players have to keep performing to get their raises. It breeds a mental toughness. You want the big money? Make us give it to you.
What they did with Cano was completely out of character for this team. I mean seriously, if Cano played like an All Star up to his free agent year, you don’t think the Yankees would have given him a fat contract to keep him? You don’t think he would have taken it?
By guaranteeing him financial security this soon, I think they made a mistake with his development.
I’m shocked he’s done this again this year.
And for me as a fan of the team, he’s just so hard to root for right now.
He does look lazy and his body language and his “cool” doesn’t appeal to me as a player.
At least with Jeter, he combines “cool” with “gamer”.
I don’t see any “gamer” in Cano.
And I seriously think that’s what the team sorely misses. Guys willing to run through walls and do whatever it takes to win, Watching Cano try to bunt the other night was just a joke. If you can’t hit, at least get the damn bunt down.
Cano is not in Chase Utley’s class as a player. Not even close.
I know you can make stats look at number of different ways. Watch the two of them play and tell me which guy is the better player. Its Utley.
Nobody in baseball would take Robinson Cano, even when he is hitting, over Chase Utley.
Again, I don’t care what Cano hits rest of the season. I am talking about the long term.
He may very well become one of the better second baseman in baseball. But, if he can bring you back two parts in a trade that can improve your team, why not consider it?
JMO, he’s too inconsistent to be a guy to rely on over the long haul.
When a team gives you a long term deal, they are relying on you to be one of the cornerstones over the long haul. I think Cano is too much of an inconsistent player to be relied upon over the long haul and like Soriano has more value on the trade market.
Soriano was a better hitter than Cano, IMO. Not the defender Cano is but a better hitter. He was also faster. A plus in the way the game is changing today.
Despite that, he was a guy who was too up and down as a player to be relied upon over the long haul. I feel Cano is the same type of player.
Felt the same way last year and I haven’t seen anything this year to change my mind.
Like I said though, I would only deal him from a selling high position. Not now when it would be selling low.
Gayle,
I have no issue with Giambi being out tonight. That’s not my point about him. I know he got hurt last night.
My point is, does his production offset his weaknesses. Some say yes, I say no. Reasonable minds can differ.
“If he hits .400 in July and August, it still won’t matter because he is not helping the team in April, May and early into June.”
Robbie hit .295 in May. I think that helped the team.
If you have some notion that he is timing his hits so they only come in blowouts you need to find a nice round room somewhere.
Young players especially run hot and cold - Robbie is EXTREME - but just like with young pitchers you have to ride out the inconsistencies while players become more professional and balance things out.
I was, and one bad game isn’t going to change my mind. He still has some of the best upside of anyone in the Yankee bullpen right now, and the stuff to succeed in high-leverage situations.
As for Giambi, he does not have to perform relative to his contract to be an asset: he needs to perform relative to his peers at his position. While he’s an atrocious defensive first baseman, his bat is still producing enough value that he’s a net plus in the field, and it isn’t as if the Yankees currently have a superior option available to them either on the 25-man roster or immediately in the minors.
There was some hope Juan Miranda could have been that guy, but he’s looking to be nothing more than a LH platoon batter–even if he were torching AAA pitching (and he isn’t), he still would not be a satisfactory alternative to Giambi (or even to platoon with Giambi) because he brings nothing new to the table (say, RH power).
SJ I am with you on that i was commenting on the why sit your leading rbi guy coment you made (below)
Call me crazy but, when a team isn’t hitting, sitting down the leading RBI guy on the team doesn’t seem like a smart strategy.
Why did the Yankees activate Posada today if he wasn’t going to play?
g love
“I’m shocked he’s done this again this year” completly defeats your argument that he’s complacent because of his multi year deal.
IDEA: trade Cano and sign the O-dog Orlando Hudson good hitter speedy only 30 and a RIDICULOUS fielder remember him from Toronto adding him changes the team
Giese optioned to AAA to make room for Posada…
Makes sense… why wait another day if Giese wasn’t going to pitch tonight anyways… might as well have the extra bat off the bench
Y’s,
I called Cano out for the same stuff last year.
I just see him as the kind of player you win with when you are able to deal him and get back parts that make the overall team better. I don’t see him as a cornerstone of the franchise type of guy.
As bad as Edwar was last night, I would have him among the candidates for the 8th inning by committee role the Yankees are making noises about doing.
If you don’t have one guy to count on for the 8th, try doing it by committee until one emerges.
I am not looking for perfection out of the bulllpen. Just as I am not looking for perfection out of Cano.
I am however, looking for consistency. If a player can’t provide it, he has no long term or short term value to the team.
JMO, reasonable minds can differ on it.
how has melky been recently?
Kenny commented on something the other night that Cano swings at horrible pitches because he’s actually good enough to hit them. He has too much confidence in his swing.
SomeGuy32,
Source?
SJ, you’re setting up strawman arguments. I was not putting Cano in Utley’s class as a player–I was saying that OUTSIDE of Utley, you’re hard pressed to find a better second baseman in all of baseball than Robinson Cano, not just this season (and there’s still enough season for him to turn around his struggles at the plate; I believe it was on River Ave. Blues that it was pointed out Cano only had twelve additional hits last year than this year in comparable plate appearances), but looking at the next three, possibly even the next five (he’s still only 25, so there’s a good argument that he’s yet to reach his peak).
For the reasons that CB outlined in his post above, there’s simply no way you cut bait and trade Cano. You would have to get some pretty incredible talent back for him–I’m talking similar to the haul that Dan Haren received back for the Athletics, because Cano does not just have superior talent, he has a very valuable contract, too.
“Giese optioned to AAA to make room for Posada…
Makes sense… why wait another day if Giese wasn’t going to pitch tonight anyways… might as well have the extra bat off the bench”
are you kidding me ? what does Shelley Ducan have to do to show he does not belong on this roster
JW–MLB.com. I got an mlb alert about the activation.
Gayle,
Abreu leads the team in RBI with 37. Jason has 29.
I was referring to Abreu when someone posted about sitting him tonight.
Ok Giese was optioned?? Now I am really really confused on this move unless come SUnday Moller is gone and Giese comes back up to be the long man for Joba.
roger that SJ thought you were referring to Jason from the comment before lol
and since Bobby is playing that made me think even more you were talking about Jason lol. The Giese move again bring me to the question I asked the other day in advnace of all these moves i guess it shows that the Yankees would rather have a bigger bench than a larger pen??
Good point Fallen Phoenix we would need to get back an organizations best ML ready pitching prospect in order to move cano
Giese threw 65 pitches yesterday and won’t be available for several days. I guess that it.
The issue now is what do they do with Joba’s next start? They are still going to need a long man.
And Giese can’t be called back up for 10 days unless they have an injury.
sj, i agree with you that they have to look at thier options with cano once he gets hitting better. i think they should consider trading him if the right offer comes along, but for now, thats all way off in the future.
for now, you maybe sit him a game or two, then put him back in and ride it out.
my point about his lacadasical play being present prior to his multi year deal was an argument against those who say the contract has made him complacent, not that it doesnt exsist. i did notice that you had mentioned it when they first announced cano’s contract. i was just saying that those who say he’s lazy b/c of the contract are wrong imo.
Fallen Phoenix,
That’s my point. If you get back 3 guys that improve the overall team, (because of his talent) don’t you think you can find a second baseman (as the Yankees have done in the past) to get the job done?
My point is, a guy like Cano may be more valuable in what he gets you back in trade than he is playing for your team.
Obviously, reasonable minds can differ on the issue.
Is he so good that bringing back 3 players (using this as an example, obviously) isn’t better than having him as your second baseman?
Gayle -
Giese can’t come back up for 10 days or so (someone knows the exact time frame) unless someone else gets hurt. So it will someone else doing the long relief Sunday
Probably the wrong site to ask, but are their any studies of players as inconsistent as Cano appears to be? Do they pan out, or do they fall of into Juan Samuelness? Or is his inconsistency merely a statistical quirk, and in ten years no one will remember he had a several (very) bad months early in his career?
I wish I could borrow the brain of the Cano apologists on here. I don’t know how anyone who is a fan of this team can feel good about him.
I know it’s about the long haul, but he has once again proven that he is someone we can’t rely on to win. Everything has to be perfect for him to perform. I’m sorry, but the guy is a bit of a baby.
And if he hit .295 in May as was posted and his avg. is still under .220, then that just goes to show you how god awful the guy is playing.
I want him to come back and his .300 so we can actually trade him for something decent.
Send him to the Dodgers who will need a 2b with Kent retiring for some of that young talent.
Torre and Bowa will get the best out of him and we can get a good young OF’er and a pitcher I bet.
This isn’t for this season though. I don’t advocate trading him now unless some incredible deal falls into the Yanks laps.
In the off season, he should not be an untouchable.
CB
You didn’t hear that Chad is going to wake up with a sore back, and needs to go on the dl Sunday?
“And Giese can’t be called back up for 10 days unless they have an injury.”
CB you say that like it’s difficult
The Cano debate reminds me (to remind you) that he came up to the big club because they were desperate to replace Tony Womack. I raise this point because it means that Cano was not necessarily breaking the door down to get to The Bronx, but rather that he was in the right place at the right time. He showed enough since then to keep the Yankees interested in him. But had he bombed immediately, he would have already been gone because I don’t recall him being hailed as the “next Carew” when he arrived in the Bronx with Wang. Cano just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
My observations of him suggest an immature player, one who certainly lacks, say, Jeter’s command of the game and all its situations. Cano probably misses Bowa for the ramrod discipline he apparently provided but at some point a player has to “get it” on his own. There’s only so much coaching you can give a player.
Yes, they just signed him to a long term contract to buy out some arb eligible years. But there is new evidence - - he’s completely lost at the plate going into his 4th year as a pro - - and thus a basis to revisit that commitment. But the contract is far from an inhibition to a trade. IMO it makes Cano more attractive as a trade piece precisely because some arb. eligible years are already locked up.
Cano will be an interesting read.
One would think that with the contract he signed last winter giving him financial security, he would make every attempt to show he was worth it and put up a stellar year.
If his lackadaisical play continues, it’s only a matter of time when Hank Steinbrenner calls him out and then the rumors start that the team will listen to offers for the “next Rod Carew”.
If his best buddy (Melky)can’t get through to him, then 10 Larry Bowas won’t make a difference.
im not a cano appologist, im not even much of a fan of his. i was just pointing out that the argument that he’s lazy b/c of his new contract is the reason he’s doing so badly. he was streaky and laid back before he signed the contract, and he slumped last season at the start, too (admittedly, not this badly though)
my other point about cano is the same i make about the bullpen, we dont have any better options as of right now.
“He showed enough since then to keep the Yankees interested in him.”
By this, do you mean starting in last year’s all-star game? Or maybe you are referring to coming in 2nd in rookie of the year voting in 2005?
We have scads of rookies and graybeards - can we please hold onto to someone who is going into their prime with an affordable contract?
cano to the dodgers for kershaw and kemp!!1
come on
“Now I am really really confused on this move unless come SUnday Moller is gone and Giese comes back up to be the long man for Joba.”
Britton’s still with the team so either he or Ohlendorf will be the long man on Sunday.
But they may not even need a long man on Sunday. The Royals are atrocious. Joba’s pitch limit will probably be 80 on Sunday. 80 pitches should be enough to get through 6 innings against the Royals.
If the yankees continue to draft the way they are and continue to sign players on the international market the way they are, then I’m confidant that they will be able to find most of the positions they need. They are already stockpiling pitching.
They’ll be able to find high upside outfielders, they’ll be able to find a first baseman. Those are the positions they most immediately need to turn over.
They can find all star caliber players at those position.
I have no idea if they can find an second baseman who has plus hitting skills and a plus glove.
Second base is a strange position. If you look at the 5 best position player prospects at second and compare them to the 5 best position players at other positions they pale in comparison.
Year in and out second base is one of the single worst position to try to draft. In many ways the position is harder to fill with a good player than SS is.
The yankees need to create comparative advantages with other teams - that means having plus players at positions that are very difficult to fill.
That’s partly why Jeter, Posada and to a lesser extent Bernie formed the core to a dynasty.
They were not only terrific to great players, they play positions that most other teams get very little from. That generates enormous differential advantages, especially for a team that has vast resources to spend on positions that are easier to fill e.g. Right Field.
Cano offers that same kind of potential advantage. That’s an enormous issue.
Murph,
Jim Kaat, whom I love, tagged him with the “next Carew” line after he saw him swing the bat in Tampa.
I remember Torre wanted to kill him (in a playful way) because they didn’t to put too much pressure on him! lol
I think the kid is a very talented player.
However, just as I said last night that I don’t care if Joba gives up 10 runs in his start, its the right move to put him in the rotation, I’ve never wavered in my feelings about Cano.
He’s good, not great, not a franchise guy and never will be. JMHO on the subject.
Even if he hits .400 the rest of the way, he’s a guy you look to deal to improve the overall team.
I agree with you, his contract makes him even more attractive on the trade market.
With limited trade options, Cano could prove to be a very valuable chip down the line.
I’m not saying tomorrow or even next month. I’m saying that he should never be considered an untouchable on this team and if the right deal came along, the Yankees ought to pull the trigger.
Ugh Cano has definitely been frustrating. How about in the draft, the Yankees focus on just position players this year? Enough with RHP’s.
“Cano probably misses Bowa for the ramrod discipline he apparently provided but at some point a player has to “get it” on his own. There’s only so much coaching you can give a player.”
Cano was just as terrible at the beginning of last year when Bowa was with the team.
You guys crack me up. Any player that scuffles for awhile and it’s demote him or trade him. When Cano hits .400 in July and August you’ll all be like “he’s the man” and I knew he’d come around. Funny stuff.
CB,
I guess my question is, do you need a plus guy at second base?
Couldn’t you argue that’s the one position that you really don’t need to have a plus guy?
That’s all I am trying to say. I don’t think you need a plus guy at second base.
If you have one, and he can bring you back the type of value to improve your overall team, isn’t it worth exploring?
Especially for a team like the Yankees who can fill their plus position needs in a variety of ways.
“Second base is a strange position. If you look at the 5 best position player prospects at second and compare them to the 5 best position players at other positions they pale in comparison.”
This is true - I don’t think you look to this position for a cornerstone or a franchise player. The only memorable Yankee 2B in my memory is (comeback kid) Willie Randolph and he was not exactly spectacular.
TKinDC:
I understand your point, but Cano as a player is equal to whatever you can get for him. If the right deal is made and you improve the team with two affordable players I’m not sure if that’s a bad thing.
guys, i love chatting yanks baseball with you.
unfortunatly, i will be watching tonights game on tivo instead of enjoying it with so many good fellow yankee fans (plus the others).
enjoy the game
LETS GO YANKEES!!!!
Not what I’m saying Bad Scooter. I’m saying that even if he hits .400, is he the kind of guy that you can count on over the long haul as you retool the team?
I think its a legitimate question.
like I said I’m not gonna hate on Robi but look where his career is heading
After 0-2
.209/.231/.307 .538 OPS
After 1-2
.235/.256/.377 .633 OPS
After 2-2
.253/.300/.393 .693 OPS
139 recorded 3 ball counts in his whole career
Bad Scooter–I can guarantee you I will not be posting “he’s the man” if Cano hits .400 in July and August.
I’ll be posting, “it would have been nice for him to show up in the early parts of the season”.
Again, it’s all mental with Cano. He’s getting himself out. A guy this fragile in the head is tough to take.
The thing that scares me is if he does hit .300 by seasons end and the Yanks float him in a few deals, will other teams not pay as much after back to back seasons of disappearing in the spring?
If you’re a GM, do you want to trade big pieces to get Cano knowing he might not hit until July?
You might lose your job by then if the players you give up for him start off strong.
that’s 4 seasons ^^^ and yes I think he can do better and contribute, it’s just something has to change
SJ,
Well, that’s just it, isn’t it? It would really depend on the package of players. I think the Yankees would probably think long and hard about trading Cano if they could fill multiple holes with high-level prospects, but with Cano’s ceiling–and I’m just not convinced that 200 PAs are enough to conclude that he will not ever come close to being a 7 or 8 WARP player again, which BP’s PECOTA sees as his mean talent level–the Yankees would have to love the pieces they are getting back.
And I think they would more strongly consider the trade if the Yankees could secure a solid 2nd base alternative in return (off the top of my head, I cannot think of too many attractive 2nd base prospects who have major upside, but that’s probably because most 2nd basemen are converted shortstops), or have one already close to the majors already. It isn’t that 2nd base is necessarily a premium position, just that Cano can be so much better than your average second baseman (let alone replacement) that it allows your team to have positional weaknesses elsewhere, such as 1st base or (when Jeter begins to slow down offensively) shortstop.
Ultimately, I’ll concede that it is unreasonable to say no to trading Cano under ANY circumstance, but Dan Haren-like trades for a player who was JUST signed through his arbitration years aren’t exactly common, which is why I think such a scenario is highly unlikely. I think it would take exceptional circumstances for the Yankees to begin shopping Cano for those sorts of packages, and I cannot see teams seriously kicking the tires on Cano unless the Yankees start shopping him first.
murphydog -
It is impossible to argue with that proposition (i.e. the right deal) - I just think that the Yanks have finally caught on to developing players and retaining talent in a smart way by locking Cano up.
Our infield is what, like $25M, $18M, $3M, and $20M this year. We need to hold the line somewhere.
“You guys crack me up. Any player that scuffles for awhile and it’s demote him or trade him. When Cano hits .400 in July and August you’ll all be like “he’s the man” and I knew he’d come around. Funny stuff.”
I won’t. Because the excuses of “he’ll hit when it’s warm” or “he misses Larry Bowa”
aren’t good enough. First of all any major league player who can’t function without a good, swift kick in the butt from a coach, I have questions about to begin with.
His plate discipline is horrible as is his overall approach at the plate. He has talent, but he was never regarded as a blue-chip prospect coming up.
The fact that his contract is manageable does make him a valuable trade chip.
Brandon -
I have no idea what to make of that unless you show the league averages.
rconn23 I wouldn’t trade him but I’d change my approach w/ him if I were in the Yankees staff.
Brandon:
Guess who this is:
After 0-2 .225 .257 .376 .633
After 1-2 .237 .294 .416 .710
After 2-2 .228 .339 .424 .763
You come up with some weird stats to pick when trying to discuss the viability of players. Those counts are called pitchers counts for a reason. you’re in the hole!
I also just wanted to add that I’m pretty much entirely behind CB on this issue, in large part because he’s making the same points I am, just far more articulately (and swiftly, at that!). I think that Cano provides the illusion of a complementary player, while the value he ultimately produces at the end of the season points towards him being a huge difference maker when comparing the composition of entire rosters.
And again, I think there’s a very good argument to make that Cano isn’t yet just what he is–this is only his third full season in the majors, and I think he still has the potential to break out in a very big way, even compared to last season. If he does that, I’m not sure another team would even be able to approach the kind of package the Yankees would look for in order to move Cano.
TK the league average in which category ?
Bad Scooter:
“When Cano hits .400 in July and August you’ll all be like “he’s the man” and I knew he’d come around. Funny stuff.”
It’s not really funny. It just means you are not following the point.
I’m not talking about DFA’ing him. I’m saying he is not essential to the team’s success like A-Rod, Jeter, Po and Mo. So, if the right trade is made it improves the team.
If Cano starts hitting again later in the year, great. But please don’t insult my intelligence by suggesting that I will then conveniently forget what I’ve written today. Even if he hits .500 in July and August but goes cold in September and October, he’s still a headache as a player. Cano was really inconsistent for the first two months of the season and could not be counted on. It’s June now and he still shows no signs of really coming out of it. And this is not the first season he’s been unable to right himself at the plate.
The Yankees may well decide to keep him as their 2d baseman. That would not necessarily be wrong. But if Cano can fetch one or more young, talented, affordable players that fit slots the Yankees need filled, it won’t be the end of the world.
Peter, no skulls cracked last night eh? He spared the media? lol you know I was not saying he should take it out on you guys but rather should vent through you guys. Hell, the team is not giving you anything good to write maybe he should…
Just another loss? That’s what this all feels like and I hate it.
I wonder if giving Cano a long term deal was a good move. They did not have to and with the perception that he is lazy and needs to be pushed, I wonder if he has not be come complacent. Seeing him swing at the first pitch every time up no matter where it is has been frustrating to watch.
By the way just saw on Rotoworld that the Rays are putting Carlos Pena on the DL with a fractured finger.
If Cano hits .400 in July and August and Damon or Matsui hit .200 in July and August is that not helping out the team?
Alfonso Soriano was traded for the greatest player in the game A-Rod. Is anyone willing to give up a couple of top 10 pieces for Robinson Cano? A top ten piece and a very good prospect?
Brandon, you do realize that most players have poor numbers in 0-2/1-2 counts right? That’s why they call them pitcher’s counts. Just for fun what are Robbie’s numbers when the count is 0-0/1-0/2-0?
Brandon is taking too long to answer my question, but the 0-2 1-2 and 2-2 stats I gave were for a-rod. One of the greatest hitters to ever live.
SJ, I actually wrote that while you were writing your post when you mentioned Cano hitting .400. I didn;t know you were going to say that. I understand what you mean though. But I still think Cano is a guy who will hit .320 20 100 .850-.875 OPS more often than not.
His problem is pitch selection. He swings at too many balls and the other teams know that. Why throw him a strike when he’ll get himself out swinging at bad pitches? He’s gone two months with no adjustment. Kevin Long where are you? It’s not Longs fault though. I’m sure he’s working with Cano on his pitch selection and has since the beginning.
is it just me ….
that feels we’re going to lose every other game from now on?
what’s with this team?
TKinDC:
I am all for reducing the payroll. If you trade Cano - who is arguably more and at the same time less than the Yankee need at 2d base - for two players that have upside and are affordable, I think that holds the line.
Why the heck Cano can’t change his habit of swinging 1st pitch almost no matter what. And why no coaches can change that?
Giving Cano a long term deal clearly wss a mistake.
I have another question. If Cano bats .400 in April and May and then in June bats .087 would people still want to get rid of him? I guess my question is, do at-bats in April and May somehow hold more weight than at bats in June, July and August?
“You come up with some weird stats to pick when trying to discuss the viability of players. Those counts are called pitchers counts for a reason. you’re in the hole!”
I’m just showing how his 1st pitch, 2nd swinging doesn’t bode well for his career especially when he forces it.
Please guys…look at Robbie’s career monthly splits. I mean do some research for crying out loud.
Last 3 years May average is 264
June-Sept respectively….
.324/.351/.283/.362
It’s not time to panic on him yet.
I wish I could find out in his 4 yr. career how many times he swung at pitch 1 and 2
“I guess my question is, do you need a plus guy at second base?”
SJ,
You’re raised a number of interesting points. And again, these are all just differences in opinion on a tough issue. Everything you’ve said is more than reasonable.
Here’s my thing. No traditionally you don’t need a plus second baseman to win.
But if you do have one - a true plus guy - can you afford to let him go because you might not get one for the next 15 years?
Say the yankees traded him for I don’t know, say Ryan Braun.
Ryan Braun is a better player than Cano.
But I’m more certain that the yankees can acquire a Ryan Braun like player (draft or free agency) than they can a Cano like player.
With the yankees resources and draft philosophy I really think that one day soon they are going to have 3 plus outfielder, a plus first baseman and a plus catcher.
I could be wrong but I think there’s a high probability that they’ll fill those positions either internally or externally. Maybe I’m wrong. Some of those pieces I think may be in place in the minors.
I have no idea if they are going to be able to find a plus SS to replace Jeter or a plus 2nd baseman if they trade Cano. No idea. They just don’t come along too often.
When you have the resources the yankees have at their disposal, IMO they should try to create the best team possible by maximizing marginal advantages.
That means trying very hard to put plus players at positions that are traditionally not plus positions.
Second base is one of those.
Now that’s not saying I would “build” the team around him the way they did with Jeter. To me, he’s a guy who I wait and see hoping he provides relative advantage.
In a certain way I see right now as a potential complementary elite player, if that makes sense.
Normally that’s a player I’d trade. Soriano was that kind of player. I was fine trading Soriano because it was clear he was an outfielder in the waiting.
I’m fine with Cano being that complementary elite player as he is a true plus defensive second baseman.
A complementary elite player is the kind of paradoxical player that only the yankees can afford to carry.
So in that respect I think he’s the kind of “luxury” they can afford to carry because of their resources.
So I’d keep him and be willing to live with his failings and hope he goes from potential complementary elite player to a true franchise player as he matures.
With Cano it’s about running up marginal advantages. Only a team with resources like the yankees can afford to do that.
Cano hits: .362 .362 .553 .915 on the first pitch.
.333 .339 .519 .857 1-0
.415 .415 .642 1.057 2-0
for his career. Why would you change that?
Maybe the patience that Cano has displayed is messing with him? He is told to start taking pitches, so he lets a lot of meatballs go by. Now he is trying to get back to that, so he is hacking.
.239 .239 .326 .565
Whoa, how can you say Cano is not essential to this teams success. He struggled last spring and the Yanks struggled. He started to swing the bat and the Yanks started winning. Of course he wasn’t the only reason, but he helped a little. This spring he is awful and the Yanks are mediocre. Don’t forget he was one of only a few that did anything in the playoffs last year. Had a nice series at the plate against the Tribe.
His career average on first pitch is .381 not shabby
BTW the Boston hype machine Peter Gammons just deemed Craig Hansens the best 8th inning guy in the AL.
If a pitcher has a lifetime 115 OPS+ after 7 years in the bigs and only has 1 season in which he pitched 200 innings where his OPS+ was over 101 but also has a 10-1 record in the postseason is he an Ace?
the .381 was for prior 3 years.
Craig ‘My ERA > # of K’s’ Hansen?!
“Alfonso Soriano was traded for the greatest player in the game A-Rod. Is anyone willing to give up a couple of top 10 pieces for Robinson Cano? A top ten piece and a very good prospect?”
Fair point. Maybe not right now and maybe not until the off season as teams re-assess their needs. But Cano is an attractive player who is affordable and under contract for the next few years.
Texas was dying to get rid of A-Rod and the Yanks were equally interested in moving Sori, for some of the same reasons that are becoming manifest in Cano. Sori was hardly the equal of A-Rod and that deal was not on the Yankees’ radar until the Boston deal fell through. But then it came together pretty quickly.
The right scenario may not be on the horizon at this moment, but that is a long way from saying it won’t happen.
Who wouldn’t be fine trading Soriano if it brought back arguably the most talented player in baseball who will go down as an all-time great? Bottom line regarding trading Soriano is who it brought back. That was a no brainer.
*Yu* is in the building!!!!
I wish the actual pitcher were on the Yankees, and not just some bum on a blog.
Yankees gonna win this ball game tonight I smell that offense its right around the corner
“for his career. Why would you change that?
Maybe the patience that Cano has displayed is messing with him? He is told to start taking pitches, so he lets a lot of meatballs go by. Now he is trying to get back to that, so he is hacking.”
I would agree w/ you if they were line outs or good pitches to hit but for the last few weeks he’s been swinging at bad pitches and getting himself into bad counts instead of good ones, go and check his numbers on 2-0, 1-0, 2-1 and 3-1, I guarantee you those numbers OBP% and SLG % are also high, that’s what I love about Robi talented kid but gets trigger happy.
Jerk your the Bum Im internationally known man
That’s not the offense, its the chicken that Serrano just sacrificed to wake up the bats
The ‘trade Cano’ crowd is going to look just as foolish as the ’send him down to AAA crowd’ did last year. Or do you really not remember at all?
SJ44 says that Cano is comparable to Soriano in that he will bring the Yankees back more value in a trade. Okay, but only if you trade Cano for the best player in the game. That’s what Soriano was traded for.
Trading Cano for prospects is incredibly dumb. Just really, horribly, incredibly dumb. Who would you trade him for? Seriously, come up with a package with a team who needs a second baseman. Not that easy, is it? Plus, who will play second base? Alberto Gonzalez? And you thought Cano was bad with the bat in April? Sheesh.
Cano is a very, very, very good defensive second baseman. He gets to balls that few second basemen could even dream of reaching. That backwards pass to Jeter that Jeter dropped? Let me assure you, Dustin Pedroia would not have even attempted to reach that ball.
I didn’t get the Cano hate last year, and while I get the Cano frustration this year, calling on the team to trade him? Even if he comes all the way back to hit .300 this year? Why, because he’s not a ‘first-half’ player? Because he’s not ‘clutch’? He was the best-hitting Yankee in last year’s playoffs. He was maybe, maybe behind Posada as the second-most valuable Yankee last year. He was THIRD in the AL, points behind Jeter and Mauer, in 2006. But all that goes away because he’s had a tough two months? Do you think people in Boston are piling on Dustin Pedroia because he has a .317 OBP (on-base ability drives his value) this year? Surely Alex Cora could provide similar value. Tell me, should Boston trade Pedroia? And trust me, Pedroia is not near the player Cano is, offensively or defensively.
You don’t trade a player just to trade a player. That’s horrible, horrible business.
Cano looks bad at the plate right now, no doubt. But he looked just about as bad this time last year, too. Was the next four months a fluke? How’d he look then? Or do we throw that out the window because we’re all ‘what have you done for me lately’ fans?
Thankfully, the Yankee FO is infinitely smarter than the lot of us.
But seriously I like it here in Japan why do I wanna pitch 4 a team with no bullpen?
“go and check his numbers on 2-0, 1-0, 2-1 and 3-1, I guarantee you those numbers OBP% and SLG % are also high”
Brandon,
This is not unique to Cano. Most players are better hitters when pitchers have to throw a strike. That’s why most players have good averages when the bases are loaded.
Brandon:
my point was that maybe they changed his approach, so he wasn’t swinging at many first pitches(I believe this is true early season). He was hitting the ball hard but with few results, so now he is going back to his old ways but is too over eager. Thus the pitiful line this season on first pitches.
Its obvious, that for his career he is an amazing first pitch and hitters count hitter. He has a 1 ops in favorable counts!
Gammons said what? Why do you watch that crap? They obviously are told in their production meetings to say inflammatory things about the Yanks or that would get Yankee fans upset. No doubt in my mind. Actually, I think I heard one of their (ESPN’s) guys even admit to that.
Hansen has pithced 11 times and has allowed runs in 6 of those appearances. Not good for a guy who pithces 1, maybe 2, innings at a time.
gammons is a shill for the sux..
hansen is as reliable as cox and melancon are, zilch to be determined…
you know you have a bad pen when you miss brian bruney …..
he at least had no fear, often did not know where the ball was going but was not scared of contact this year all 13 innings of this yr.
I assume they will go to Ohlendorf in the 7th tonight.
I have not given up on Edwar because of 1 bad outing, to me he is totally a better option then Latroy and to me Kyle also..
Farnsworth is a joke…
Gammons is an anti-Yankee D0uche!
“I guess my question is, do at-bats in April and May somehow hold more weight than at bats in June, July and August?”
I guess I get tired of the peaks and valleys. Slumps happen, but consistency (and thus reliability) is more valuable IMO.
I can probably be easily undone by statheads on this, but yes, I think July and August at bats mean more. In May and June, the season is taking shape, and it’s not too late to overcome deficits caused by whatever reason. As the season gets older, however, a game comes off the calendar every day and there are less chances to make up ground. So, unless you have run away with the division in April and May, July and August matter more because they are closer to the finish line. I think.
Robbie is doing horrible on 1-1, and 3-1 counts. His BABIP is also pathetic in every count. Even the count in which he hits .300, .300, .600 he has a .222 BABIP.
Theres a lot of things going wrong this season adding up for Cano.
Why is it that all of ESPN’s so called baseball “analysts” are from Boston or currently work for a boston publication I hate that is flagrant anti-ny BS
We need to start a petition for Gammons to be ejected from the hall. The offense is that he is Theo’s Be-atch!
Im gonna change NESN to (New. England. Sucks. Network)
Brandon,
Gammons also said earlier this year that Manny Delcarmen would be among the best pitchers in baseball this year.
Someone at ESPN needs to calm him down a bit. Either that, or only let him comment on the Red Sox on a special page devoted to the Red Sox.
According to FanGraphs, robby swings at less pitches outside of the zone than in 2007. However, he makes FAR more contact.
34% and 69% in 2007
30% and 80!!% in 2008
His line drive % has also fallen to a career low.
It’s not about Cano’s swinging at the first pitch thats the problem. It is swinging at the pitchers pitch. The league has made the adjustment on him and he doesn’t seem to be able to make the adjustment back. To only swing at pitches in his hitting zone. He is super easy to pitch to because he will swing at what pitch the pitcher wants him to. Patience isn’t about taking pitches.
It’s about taking pitches you can’t drive. When was the last time you saw Cano drive a ball?
Murphydog,
I’m not for or against trading Cano, but if they were to trade him then he would have to bring back a haul of very good players and a least 1 player who is already a major leaguer in my opinion.
I wouldnt be suprised one day if they find Gammons, Theo, Ben Affleck and Tom Brady all in bed together
People that get mad at ESPN for being Sox shills really need to get a life. You do realize the same thing is said up there but about the Yankees? Does this really effect your day? That Gammons is a New Englander and has a little Sox in him??
I’m not saying trade Cano for “prospects”.
I am saying he shouldn’t be label an untouchable no matter how many stats you want to put up to try and make a point.
Watch the kid play everyday.
Sorry but, you can’t show up for half a season and expect to be considered a great player.
He’s not a great player.
Perhaps he will be one day. Or, perhaps he will just be a stat compiler and nothing.
None of us know the answer to that question right now.
I’m saying that if you could get 2-3 players that you felt confident would make the overall team better, than I don’t believe trading Cano is so far fetched.
Regardless of what he does the second half of the season.
Where is Cairo when we need him!!? I for one, dont like his laid back style and his bonehead approach at the plate. He does remind me alot of Soriano. I liked the person who suggested going after Orlando Hudson. I mentioned that last year but didnt get much love. If we could unload Sori and get Mr. MVP in return. Why not trade Cano and get a decent first baseman and an outfielder.
Who were the people who didnt want to trade Cano for Miguel Cabrera last year again?
“Tell me, should Boston trade Pedroia? And trust me, Pedroia is not near the player Cano is, offensively or defensively.”
Precisely. Pedroia does not have the trade value Cano does.
Cano is more likely a trade piece because to his current team he is maddeningly inconsistent AND because he will fetch something good in return. It makes sense to think about trading Cano for BOTH of those reasons. It’s what you could get back for him that makes it worth looking into.
Soriano is not really a great comparison to Cano, IMO because Soriano was a horrible defensive player.
It was obvious to everyone that Soriano was just not a middle infielder. He was just a guy standing between first and second.
He was going to get moved to the OF at some point in time and that time was coming soon.
Soriano is a better offensive player than cano in absolute terms.
But when compared to the average player at their position, Cano is better than Soriano.
Cano is much, much better than an average second baseman both because he’s a very good offensive player and the average second baseman stinks. Soriano is better than the average left fielder but not by as much as Cano is compared to the average second baseman.
Last year Soriano was 7.6 wins better than an average LF. Last year Cano was 9.4 wins better than an average second baseman. And cano can hit better than he did last year.
Murray Dude, How can they say that about us when all the broadcasters are Boston born and bred?
Why don’t the fans boo Cano, they were all over Arod 2 years ago, and he hustled. Sure Arod’s got a big contract but Cano’s contract now is bigger than he ever thought he would make. Cano’s a dog, he spends more time clubbing than thinking about baseball. i will let him hear it.Time for us to show our disatisfaction BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Real smart move. Trade Cano when he’s hitting 200 and right after hes signed a long term contract. Let’s overlook the fact that he plays 2b, is an all star, hits left, and is projected to be a future 3rd place hitter. But lets move him when his value is real low.
Amazes me how many people give up on players during slumps. But these are the same people who probably wanted Jeter traded during his 0 fer month and wanted Mariano out of the closer job after 2 blown saves.
Not only are they all Bostonians but it reflects heavily in their coverage
I don’t know who that’d be, Miggy is as young as Cano and better offensively, but Cano’s defense kind of stumps that. Except you’d trade Cano + MORE for him. I was very against Wang + Cano for Willis.
“Does this really effect your day? That Gammons is a New Englander and has a little Sox in him??”
Don’t diss Varitek’s wang size. you’ll make him sad.
“I’m not for or against trading Cano, but if they were to trade him then he would have to bring back a haul of very good players and a least 1 player who is already a major leaguer in my opinion.”
Agreed. It’s not a fire sale.
Looks like it might rain.
Man I wish Robbie could get something going. He is very frustrating to watch right now.
I heard Gammons on 1050 while driving home. I was about to throw up in my car. Thankfully I made it home in time.
“Cano hits: .362 .362 .553 .915 on the first pitch.”
i’ve always been amused by this stat.
it’s deceptive because it’s literally what a player hits when he hits the first pitch.
it’s not what he hits when he swings at the first pitch.
that would be a totally different number and way lower.
anyone that watches cano on a regular basis knows that he should be more patient at the plate. because he doesn’t miss a lot of pitches, he has to be careful what he swings at.
some locations just can’t be put in play hard. it’d be better if he missed them completely.
he gets the bat on the ball , but can’t drive it with any athority in the location it’s in.
Who cares if the Sportscenter announcers are Boston fans? Does it really matter? And you are kidding yourself if you don’t think fans around the country think ESPN is Yankee oriented. Check their national games. Again, does it really matter if Steve Phillips hates NY?
Cano in a slump…………. He’s in a coma
Whoever said that ESPN doesn’t intentionally go out of their way to talk about the Yankees is dead wrong. Positive or negative they always talk about the Yankees because that’s what will get ratings and people talking. I’d hate to be a fan of a team other than the Yanks and Sox and watch ESPN because half of their time they spend talking about MLB is about the Yanks and Sox.
Same thing in the NFL and the Cowboys. It’s all about ratings.
Chad Jennings reports that Alan Horne is on his way to Scranton. He may start Friday night.
You know there is going to be a lot of movement as the Yankees search for bullpen arms. If Horne can string together some good games for Scranton, we may be able to add his name to the list of possible bullpen options.
It’s like Deja Vu with SJ44. He wanted to rebuild last year. He wanted to cut Giambi. He wanted to trade Cano. That didn’t turn out that great last year for him.
Its so apparent that you can hear their disdain as they are even discussing the bombers always some sort of sarcastic overlay everytime they say YANKEES it disgusts me their just sore about getting owned for nearly a century and now that theyve won there is a not so subtle sense of superiority
Horne isn’t a bullpen option, IMO. The Yankees don’t have a lot of quality starting depth, after Kennedy and Hughes went down, and White, Igawa and Marquez turned out to be pumpkins. They have two bullpen options in Cox and Robertson, and Cox for one has done absolutely nothing wrong. Robertson walked a lot of folks his first couple of weeks in Scranton, but has been lights out recently.
Horne was the EL pitcher of the year last year. You don’t turn a potential major league starter into a bullpen option just because.
Jerkface,
We had a discussion in the offseason in going after Cabrera. Most people didnt want to trade Cano for him. Even though Cabrera is argueably one of the top 5 greatest hitters in the league. Thats what i was referring to. Yes his defense sucks. But so does Manny’s and i dont think anyone would have made a big deal about it. When he was young.
sj44 actually crediting Chad?? I guess being called out bout stealing from him changes it up for sj
Randy:
What????????????
The stat I gave you is what Cano is batting when he makes contact with the first pitch and puts it into play. That’s a really good stat. If he puts the ball in play on the first pitch, he is an all star. And he has 363 PA in that situation.
The other stat you’re thinking of would be ‘After 0-1′
Which Cano hits 279 .296 .425 for his career.
I just don’t get your point, the stat is not deceptive or amusing.
It does matter CROOKLYN because part of broadcasting to a public audience is not being biased while they are so visibly biased that it makes me uncomfortable wtaching that isnt fair to viewers
jerkface I’m reading this and Robi has a 80.19 % O-Contact% how many of those are wasteds ABs..it’s a sensitive subject I love Robi too but his patience at the plate is horrible
Nobody said trade Cano NOW will. Read the posts.
In fact, I explicitly said you DON’T sell low.
I said its an option to explore when he gets it going. Probably in the off-season IF it can get you back some important parts needed to re-tool the team.
In terms of booing Cano, the fans didn’t do that last night but, they did something funnier and more dramatic.
They gave him a Bronx Cheer when he took the first pitch in his second AB last night. Even Kay, who is usually asleep at such things during the broadcast, picked up on it.
I thought that was pretty funny and pretty sharp of Yankee fans to pick up on his lack of patience at the plate and call him on it. lol
wasted*
Brandon: His patience is the same as it has been in every season. The problem is he is making better contact because he has improved as a baseball player. Unfortunately, this is affecting him because pitches he used to swing through are now being put into play weakly or popped up.
he needs to adjust, but to suggest that he all of a sudden got bad at baseball wouldn’t be correct