Today in The Journal News
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 09, 2008 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Joba Chamberlain went a little deeper into the game as the Yankees beat the Royals. Mike Doughterty has the story.
Dan Giese got the win, however, and made a case to stick around. This notebook also has updates on Jason Giambi, Phil Hughes, Kyle Farnsworth and Brian Bruney.
I wonder if Giese’s success will continue and if so, how do they get Robertson (who’s made his own case for a call up) fit in? I’d like to see Robertson make his case as well.
A good dilemma to have.
And I have to say again, these Lace/Stiletto ads do make this blog… interesting. well… more interesting. heh.
IF you need a good laugh go read Ian O’conner’s article in the Bergen Record.
Best line of the article;
The kid will likely be a good starter, but that’s not the point. Chamberlain is a reliever, a devasting one at that. He nneds that three-out adrenaline rush the way Kobe Bryant needs his hang time.
Mr. Girardi needs to have a talk with a certain M.V.P. about running with conviction until he knows a ball leaves the park. Not mentioning names of course. jmho
not mentioning any names either but he needs to talk to a certain captain about running when the catcher drops the 3rd strike.
Ian O’Connor = dumb
http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....e_was.html
Kansas City right fielder Mark Teahen praised Chamberlain’s pitches but said that he was “more or less the same as he was as a reliever,” adding, “Nothing special.” ny post
other royals like dejesus were not impressed either. our own eyes tell us that joba the starter does not dominate like the 8th inning joba.
with joba’s skill set , the 8th is easy compared to starting. this should give a clue to solving the 7th and 8th inning while pursuing getting younger and cheaper.
all a pitcher needs to dominate in the 8th is a really good fastball and a decent second pitch. the yankees probably could have drafted that like it appears the tigers were trying to do in the recent draft.
joba really has so little experience that few starters have ever had less than him in mlb history. he really doesn’t know how to pitch yet. posada had to say no to too many changeups that joba wanted to throw. joba is like an eager puppy that wants to do more than he can. he’s really not as good as he thinks he is. even he was fooled by his 8th inning success.
if the yankees want to get young fast with pitchers, relief is the one place they should be able to do it quickly if they get the right arms and put them in the right spots.
what’s wrong with pitching a whole year in relief to break in to the majors. pedro martinez did it and it worked perfectly well for him.
Randy where is that from?
Joba file that away for the next time you face them.
“other royals like dejesus were not impressed either. our own eyes tell us that joba the starter does not dominate like the 8th inning joba.”
Royals are dumb.
Man, there really are a lot of fools out there.
Thank goodness the Yankees are doing what’s right. I just sort of wish they had never brought him up as a reliever last year and just let him finish the year in the minors, so we wouldn’t have to listen to this incessant whining from people who don’t know what they’re talking about.
Only in New York is two starts enough to right the book on someone. :shakes head:
I suppose the Dodgers should just cut ties with Kershaw, he’s obviously not the ace they expected. Maybe a package of Melky+Kennedy?
write, not right, lol.
“what’s wrong with pitching a whole year in relief to break in to the majors”
a) It’d be harder to get his innings count up that way
b) He wouldn’t mature in the ways an MLB starter has to…developing and executing game plans while learning to work through a single MLB lineup multiple times in a game.
“if the yankees want to get young fast with pitchers, relief is the one place they should be able to do it quickly if they get the right arms and put them in the right spots.”
Ok. But this way they can get younger in the rotation as well. How will Joba’s presence in the rotation prevent them from mixing in more young relievers?
Not for anything, but the Royals probably wouldn’t mind seeing Joba OUT of the starter role. What better way to help that happen by saying things like that?
Its the reason why the other “nation” sports channel, ESPN, keeps jawing on how Joba should have remained in the setup role. Seeing him for one inning is better than seeing him for more, like 6 or 7.
“more or less the same as he was as a reliever,†adding, “Nothing special.â€
Randy, you realize that this quote implies that Joba was also nothing special as a reliever. Do you agree with Teahen there?
quoting the royals to imply what the yankees should do with joba is laughable.
“It’d be harder to get his innings count up that way”
not talking about joba. hes a done deal with starting now.
pedro pitched over 100 innings his first year. almost all in relief.
if the yankees are going to be trying to bring waves of young pitchers up, they can get by in relief when they’re not ready to start .
otherwise they can wait and have them pitch a year longer in the minors which doesn’t solve the younger and cheaper philosophy because they then go out and sign expensive relievers like hawkins in the meantime .
Randy L makes an interesting point that brings to mind one of Billy Beane’s central philosophies — the overrated nature of the performance of the modern relief pitcher. My understanding is that Billy Beane has concluded that being a successful relief pitcher (ncluding closer) depends more on the fact that the closer comes in for one inning at the end of the game, is fresh and, most importantly, different from the pitcher that preceded him, and is in that sense, predisposed to success. To that end, he rarely spends money acquiring and retaining relievers and has shown that even washed-up starters can be converted to very effective relivers. Whether that’s true or not is debatable, but what it does suggest is that Joba’s (or any successful relief pitcher’s) success as a starter is in no way guaranteed. I hope it is, and even if it isn’t he can always fall back to his old relief role, but there is certainly no guarantee about the successful transition for him to a starting role.
“Randy, you realize that this quote implies that Joba was also nothing special as a reliever. Do you agree with Teahen there?”
Took it too mean Joba’s approach has not been much different and that he basically sticks to his two bread and butter pitches.
Joba’s is obviously in develpomental mode right now, but I liked his approach yesterday. Pitched a little more to contact than he did the 1st time out, actually retiring the Royals on 12 or fewer pitches in two different innings yesterday. He keeps that up and things will go very well for him.
“pedro pitched over 100 innings his first year. almost all in relief.”
And that still wouldn’t be enough to transition to a full-time starter the following season.
“if the yankees are going to be trying to bring waves of young pitchers up, they can get by in relief when they’re not ready to start .”
Yeah…I know. It was done all the time back in the day. The Dodgers did it with Billingsley last year. Santana broke in as a reliever too.
I’m totally on board with bringing young guys up as relievers, even if their eventual destiny is starting. I think you’ll still see them bring on some vets as a buffer in case the young guys need to see time in AAA. Hawkins, while crappy, is not expensive to a team like the Yanks. That said, I’d like to see him or Kyle shove off as soon as Britton is ready to come back.
“Joba’s is obviously in develpomental mode right now, but I liked his approach yesterday. Pitched a little more to contact than he did the 1st time out, actually retiring the Royals on 12 or fewer pitches in two different innings yesterday. He keeps that up and things will go very well for him.”
Yup. I was there, and it looked like he wasn’t commanding his fastball that well. There were a number of times that Jorge had to stab at FBs that seemed to come in at chest height when he expected them to be knee high. I think that’ll clear up, though. It will be helpful, I think, once he doesn’t have that specter of a pitch count hanging over him. Not that he doesn’t need to think about being efficient, but he may be over-focusing on it at this point.
“Randy, you realize that this quote implies that Joba was also nothing special as a reliever. Do you agree with Teahen there?”
joba was just league average with the royals yesterday. why should they be impressed.
i’m surprised that people who thought joba would dominate as a starter don’t have their tail between their legs. joba is clearly not making the transition the way they thought he would.
he’s really raw as should be expected from someone who’s only had 15 starts in his life in pro ball.
…and no i don’t agree with teahan. i think joba is going to be really good. as came out yesterday, the short list of pitchers who have started in the minors as little as joba and succeeded was pedro,clemens, gooden,verlander, hernandez ( not livan-felix),and a few others.
i’m just pointing out that joba the starter is not joba the 8th inning guy. that was missing in all the arguments that a starter is worth more than a 8th inning guy.
Sometimes, reading this blog, you can’t tell if the Yankees won or lost the day before.
Are people really carping that “certain” of the Yankees, two of their best “hustlers” didn’t “bust it” in 95-plus degree heat?
Joba maintains 90-something-plus, hitting 100, throwing a preponderance of strikes, and strike-one counts, walks only one, and yet feel like an opposing batter saying he’s nothing special is worthwhile to quote?
The arguments re: Joba are getting old. Most pitchers who ended up in the HOF did not start their careers in HOF form. It’s a process, and whether Joba started in the majors last year as a reliever or this year from the beginning as a starter, he was going to have a learning curve. It is NOT just the Yankees who have determined Joba is an uber-talent.
I know this is not a “cheerleader” blog, but it would be nice if the day after a nice, tight win, the reviews were more positive than negative. That’s all I’m saying.
If Joba was smart he would just strike out the size on 9 pitches every inning he pitches. But no, he doesn’t so he is stupid.
“If Joba was smart he would just strike out the size on 9 pitches every inning he pitches. But no, he doesn’t so he is stupid.” – me
Sometimes I feel like I have to say something stupid to counter-balance the other stupid things I read.
Can’t ignore failure to hustle, Doreen. Especially when it’s the two leaders of your club engaging it. It can’t happen whether it’s 95 degrees or 45 degrees. Inexecusable, period. They should be called out on it and probably would be the 1st ones to admit as much.
“I’m totally on board with bringing young guys up as relievers, even if their eventual destiny is starting”
that’s a point of agreement. the yankees really do have a surplus of arms in the minors which is a testament to cashman’s plan . but they can’t all be starters at the same time.
relieving for a year or so can be a win/win for everyone.
The problem is the abundance of retards who post here.
“The problem is the abundance of retards who post here.”
qft.
Randy l -
I don’t know – I think most people here realize that a guy who only has to pitch one, maybe two innings is going to have a different approach than a guy who has to last 6 or 7 innings. I would like to think that most people don’t expect Joba to strike everyone out all the time and that that he is going to give up his share of hits and runs. He is facing MLB hitters, after all. But that doesn’t mean he isn’t going to be very good.
I know the plan was to have Joba become a starter this season, but I do believe the Yankees moved the timetable up a tad because of Hughes/IPK not exactly working out the way they’d planned. I actually think the Yankees figured it would be Mussina who was the weak link this season, so I do believe Joba was going to be in the rotation one way or another this season. Also, there were an awful lot of games early this season where there was no need for “Joba the eighth inning guy who gets the ball to Mo.” So he was spending too much time not pitching. But you couldn’t exactly just bring him into any game, because if you really wanted him to be the bridge to Mariano, he can’t be pitching every day.
Fredo, if it’s anyone but Jeter or ARod, I could agree with you.
“Can’t ignore failure to hustle, Doreen. Especially when it’s the two leaders of your club engaging it.”
I agree with Fredo. You start bending rules and before you know it players will be betting on blackjack against monkeys in the dugout. Can’t allow that.
first off, jeter and arod for that matter, didnt know they were going to win when they didnt hustle, so that is no excuse.
secondly, when it gets hot is the time that the team’s leaders (including the manager) have to show the others that not hustling is not acceptable.
thirdly, everyone has been calling out robbie cano for not hustling (which i dont see), so its only right to call out the big stars when they dont hustle.
and finally, im very happy with the way things are going right now, the comeback ability the offense is showing may be the best help for the pitching staff. they wont have to pitch every inning as if allowing a run means another loss.
doenst mean i wont call out arod and jeter for loafing when i see it.
Randy I
It makes sense for all the usual reasons to have Joba move into the rotation. And now we have Andy and the Wanger not exactly pitching well, I wonder if there are some health issues here.
Joba’s vacancy in the 8th now opens up opportunities for others to be promoted. Cox, Melancon and Robertson.
There is a plan in place here.
“what’s wrong with pitching a whole year in relief to break in to the majors. pedro martinez did it and it worked perfectly well for him.”
I’m thinking the Dodgers had no idea how good Pedro Martinez actually was. Considering he was traded for Delino Deshields.
It’s funny that the Royals say he was nothing special in relief and yet hiss 8th inning numbers suggest that he was extraordinary as a relief pitcher.
My only point with regard to Jeter and ARod is that they hustle 99.999999% of the time. I don’t see what happened yesterday as the beginning of a trend for them. They did win the game, and all I wanted to do was revel in that for at least a while until the next game.
Just for the record, I’m not one of those who thinks Cano is lazy or doesn’t hustle. In fact, there’s been a couple of plays that he ran very well down the line which resulted in avoiding a double play.
Sounds like the folks at NoMaas are starting up some kind of Oliver Stone conspiracy theory with Pete.
Why in the world would Pete link to their draft coverage last week and then turn around and rip them and question their qualifications under a different name?
Sounds stupid to me.
These accusations are coming from a duo who just stopped injecting weekly shots aimed at Joe Torre – 6 months after he managed his last game as the Yankee skipper.
Those guys need to get a life.
really need a win today, a split with k.c. doesnt do them any good and dropping back to .500 would be somewhat demoralizing.
fortunatly we have Moose going today!
pedro was way to inconsistent and fragile to be a starter when he came up in L.A., thats why he was in the bullpen.
“i’m surprised that people who thought joba would dominate as a starter don’t have their tail between their legs. joba is clearly not making the transition the way they thought he would.”
Yeah, because 2 starts is such a huge sample size and more than enough of a sample to judge a pitcher by.
The lack of patience from some of the posters on this blog is hilarious.
“The arguments re: Joba are getting old”
doreen-
i’m with you that joba is going to be really good. but you have to admit joba isn’t the animal starting that he was in the 8th inning.
i’m coming from the perspective of once catching pre season a triple a guy who that following summer started for the national league at the all star game( in the early 90′s) and at the same time caught another guy who was a starter the triple a all star game that same summer.
what i’m saying is that they don’t, with 15 total pro starts know how to pitch. joba doesn’t know how to pitch. he thinks he does which is good because he believes in himself. but he doesn’t.
the guy i caught, even though he was in the high 90′s and had a decent slider didn’t know how to pitch. tony cloninger the then yankee minor league pitching coach showed him a split finger grip and the first time he threw it the bottom just dropped out of it and bounced in front of the plate. the pitcher tried it again. same thing. he then told tony that “i can’t throw that pitch it moves too much”.
there’s more to pitching than just stuff. joba has the stuff. now it will be a process becoming a pitcher.
that’s not being negative , that’s just being realistic based on experience.
“The lack of patience from some of the posters on this blog is hilarious.”
the know it all attitude of people who have so little experience in or with the game is ,well, you can fill in the blank _______________ .
“i’m surprised that people who thought joba would dominate as a starter don’t have their tail between their legs. joba is clearly not making the transition the way they thought he would.â€
Yeah, because 2 starts is such a huge sample size and more than enough of a sample to judge a pitcher by.”-raymagnetic
…………………………………………………………………………….
… and joba is pitching as a starter as you predicted ?
i would have thought a little humility would be in order. but that’s just me.
Calling Alex out for not hustling yesterday is a joke…this guy hustles ALL THE TIME !! I was at the game and I think EVERYONE including Alex thought it was gone. It sure looked it. The one time Alex doesn’t hustle because he thought it was gone and the hustle police are all over him. Unbelievable..just as dopey as Michael Kay saying he stood and admired his shot ..he was running when the ball left the bat ..just not as hard. I’m happy Coney called him out on that one…Kay amazes me with his comments sometimes ..make that many times. I saw the replay when I came home as I DVR all the pre game, the game and the post game when I attend the games. Can we include Michael Kay in a trade too?? lol
Go Yankees 2008 !!