Pitching matchups for the Oakland series
-
- June
- 10
Tuesday: RHP Chien-Ming Wang (6-2, 4.57) vs. LHP Dana Eveland (4-4, 3.82), 10:05, YES
Wednesday: RHP Darrell Rasner (3-3, 2.58) vs. RHP Justin Duchscherer (5-4, 2.3), 10:05, YES
Thursday: LHP Andy Pettitte (5-5, 4.99) vs. RHP Joe Blanton (3-8, 4.15), 10:05, YES
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on Tuesday, June 10th, 2008 at 3:54 am by Peter Abraham.
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maybe this is the week wang and pettitte get back on track. if the yankees want to stop treading water, it better be.
Nice, no Harden.
Pete, Don’t you sleep???
Poor Rasner, why is he always up against the toughest opposing pitcher in the series?
I agree, Kasey, Wang and Andy were supposed to be the bedrock of the rotation.
Still can’t believe that Rasner has 3 losses with that ERA.
Truly hope Wang can bounce back this time, God bless him.
Agreed that Wang and Pettitte need to step it up. Wang is having a mechanical issue, I believe, but he needs to iron it out already. Pettitte is just making bad pitches. Whether that’s a sign that he’s not 100% healthy and can’t make the pitch he’s trying to throw isn’t clear isn’t clear to me. Both guys could just be in slumps.
And from the prior thread, Steve was right. Platoon Melky and Garnder and send Duncan back: they are not using him, he is not hitting and Betemit is their chosen backup 1st baseman. Gardner/Melky can provide OF relief for Abreu instead of Duncan.
The real bench problem is having to keep three catchers, although given Po’s shoulder – which needs off season surgery – one way to safely get through this season is to commit to keep Moeller and use Po at 1st to spell Giambi.
Either way, Duncan goes back to SWB.
I wonder what the trolls will say when WE sweep Oakland ?
mel
June 10th, 2008 at 6:35 am
I agree, Kasey, Wang and Andy were supposed to be the bedrock of the rotation.
Still can’t believe that Rasner has 3 losses with that ERA.———————well, when you have a total of 3 runs between those three games to support him (not in each game… all three games had 1 run from our offensive offense), it’s really not that difficult to believe.
Pete, when can we expect a post about your thoroughly professional habit of posting bizarre discrediting remarks on Yankee fan pages?? Everyone go to Know Mass (Figure it out – Pete blocks posts with the name properly written)
Pete posts rude remarks in the comments on the site – how hypocritical for him to decry the same on his own site, and how bizarre that a supposedly accredited and professional journalist does such things in his spare time. Right??
“Still can’t believe that Rasner has 3 losses with that ERA.”
Gibson lost nine games with 1.12 ERA. Sometimes as good as you are, you’re up against a better guy.
im still waiting for the explanation from the people at that site regarding how they can publish the name of a poster when there is assumed anonymity.
that is completly unethical.
Don Vito – would you quit being positive, it’s going against the flow of the room
I agree with Steve and murphydog – sounds like a platoon of Melky and Gardner has a chance of being a really nice set-up for the Yankees. Right now Shelley Duncan is not adding any value to the team, and should be returned to SWB. At this point, it really could not hurt to give such a platoon a try. And frankly, they could have used some decent pinch-running in the last few games so just on that alone they could justify the move. And if they use a strict platoon, Gardner could get enough playing time.
My feelings about west coast games and west coast teams in general is sort of, if a tree falls in the woods and no one’s around to hear it, does it make a sound? I know they exist, but they don’t seem real to me, except you know they are real, because there the are in the box scores and the standings.
Pete,
Leave any comments on other websites lately?
I wonder what we could get for trading Melky Cabrera. I definitely prefer Gardner, if just for pure speed. Maybe Melky can net us a plus arm in the bullpen. God forbid it be a LHP.
Ya win one and Ya lose one. Things will get better when AROD is back. Ya win one and Ya lose one. Things will get better when Posada gets back. Ya win one and Ya lose one. Things will get better when the weather warms up. Ya win one and Ya lose one. Things will get better when….....I think its time for the “new Joe” to stop acting like the “old Joe” and light a fire under some of the Yankee “All Stars” or Ya win one and Ya lose One. Its time to shake things up since what we are doing is not working-
We are talking about splitting with Kansas City at home—sighhow can you prefer gardner over melky when he hasnt even played in the majors yet. its one thing to say id like to see him promoted to see what he has, but to say you prefer him over melky before you’ve seen the guy take his first ab as a yankee is premature.
Russell,,OK how is this ?...Duncan stinks, send him down….Molina stinks, send him down….Oakland STINKS, sweep them out and leave their town….trolls stink, they are such clowns ?
Rasner’s losses can be fully attributed to lack of run support.
Anything less than 2 of 3 against Oakland put the Yankees in a deeper hole.
They need to capitalize NOW on the teams in front of them. Thinking they can keep on waiting with what they have is courting danger.
For all you draft nuts:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/fan_forum/chat/index.jsp?partnerId=enanyy06102008
Y’s Guy –
I was just about to post the same thing as you just did. It’s a giant leap from wanting to see how a Melky/Gardner platoon could help to Gardner should be the everyday CF over Cabrera!
this team needs a sweep, not 2 of 3. splitting a series against one of the worst teams in baseball at home is pathetic.
It would be nice if the Yankees could run 5 games in a row or so. But, seriously, I’d take two 2/3 series. And unfortunately, the way they are pitching right now (you really don’t know what you’re going to get from the two pitchers who were supposed to be locks), 2 of 3 would be fantastic! Sweeps and winning streaks look like a pipe dream right now.
They are finally hitting – but not at the same time they’re pitching. Wang and Pettitte were let off the hook while pitching two terrible games – a tribute to the offense. But the two pitchers who pitched beautifully were left to scratch their heads and wonder where the bats were. They’re not putting it together; they need to get their yin in line with their yang (or is that their “win” in line with their “wang”???).
Cashman said a couple of weeks ago on the Michael Kay show that Gardner would not be brought up to platoon because he’s a lefty and so are the starters.
His point was that he’s not going to replace a lefty with another lefty.
He also said that if they needed a speed dimension – the guy most likely to get the call first would be Ramon Castro, not Brett Gardner.
Personally, I hope they do promote Gardner when they decide to drop Moeller because I’m really getting tired of Melky and he needs a kick in the rump big time.
I’ve said for two years that Melky is little more than a 4th outfielder and his consistent bumbling mental mistakes are getting really tiresome.
“Cashman said a couple of weeks ago on the Michael Kay show that Gardner would not be brought up to platoon because he’s a lefty and so are the starters.
His point was that he’s not going to replace a lefty with another lefty.”
No to add fuel to the fire but 5 of the 5 Yankee youngsters that Cashman has brought up are failing right now (Melky, Cano, Wang, Hughes, Karstens).
Russell –
That’s not fair. Wang, Cano and Melky have had success, and Karstens has been injured more than not – and frankly, so has Hughes.
did somebody declare ‘kick melky day’ and not notify me? or is it just a regular practice to crush whomever made the last (of 27) outs the previous game. melky is batting 9th and playing a vital defensive position. in the past we’ve won WS titles with guys like brosious and t fernandez on our team, not exactly great hitters.
for the past couple of years mekly has been a godsend in cf, considering the options. now maybe gardner can take some playing time away, or maybe gardner wont be able to hit mlb pitching, we dont know yet. on the list of things that need fixing, id put melky at about #6. (sp, bp, rh bat, speed, defense)
“That’s not fair. Wang, Cano and Melky have had success, and Karstens has been injured more than not – and frankly, so has Hughes.”
That’s why I said “right now”
“on the list of things that need fixing, id put melky at about #6. (sp, bp, rh bat, speed, defense)”
If Melky is #6, and Gardner CAN hit MLB pitching, then you fix 3 problems at once: a) Melky’s bat replaced b) more speed c) possible BP help in trade.
on the list of things that need fixing, id put melky at about #6. (sp, bp, rh bat, speed, defense)
My list would be: Wang, Andy, Cano, Bench, Bullpen, Melky
Look, Melky is fine. Maybe he isn’t even bringing the team down. But the Yankees are the Yankees. In left you have Damon, in right you have Abreu, and waiting on deck you have Matsui. We only have 1 room for a 4th (DEFENSIVE) outfielder. If Gardner is better than Melky, you have to explore that option. If Gardner can even hang in there, we would have ourselves a Jose Reyes on the bases and the media can shut up about us being old and fragile for a while.
actually if you want to count more accuratly, melky would be like #9, (2)SP’s, (2) RP’s, cano, RH bat, speed off the bench, defense at 1B, then maybe melky’s hitting.
im all for replacing duncan with gardner, but don’t expect that even if he can hit well enought to replace melky that its gonna make a huge difference.
Look, Melky is fine.
Melky is fine for what he is – a good defensive but average offensive centerfielder. He has had great defense like always and his OPS right now is just slightly below his career OPS. I don’t think we can expect much more than .750 OPS but with his defense that is still valuable. I think in the long run Brett Gardner will be a better CF than Melky but I doubt Cashman and Girardi want to call him up before September.
“on the list of things that need fixing, id put melky at about #6. (sp, bp, rh bat, speed, defense)
My list would be: Wang, Andy, Cano, Bench, Bullpen, Melky”
My list would be: 1) Find Wang his arm slot, 2) Add a player to the EVERY DAY roster with speed ala Gardner, 3) bullpen reconstruction (we have the pieces, they just aren’t arranged right), 4) TELL CANO TO TAKE PITCHES, 5) Keep Posada healthy, 6) Tell Abreu and Matsui to start slapping pitches the other way. It is unbelievable the strike zone chart on where all the pitches go to those two. They can stare in one spot the entire AB and in 3 pitches have a 90% chance of getting the ball middle-outside.
sorry gardner’s a nice player (in aaa), but reyes? not even close.
Wang doesn’t belong in that group because he’s just struggling and has a pretty darn good track record of winning throughout his young career.
Hughes was struggling and he’s a young kid, the youngest pitcher in the league. A player who struggles and another who shows consistent mental lapses are two different things.
Cano has enough mental lapses of his own, but there is no replacement for him. Hey, I like Alberto Gonzalez, but a struggling Cano is still better than Gonzalez.
How many times over the past two years has Melky been told time and time again by Torre and Girardi to STOP SLIDING INTO FIRST BASE!!!
Yet, he does it again and again and doesn’t listen to his coaches. He’s also extremely lucky that he wasn’t thrown out of the game because he threw his helmet towards the ump.
Pena saved his hide on that.
If nothing else, Gardner would provide a dimension of speed that this team could use and he would also provide some competition for Melky – something the team really needs.
Giuseppe –
What are the consistent bumbling mental mistakes that Melky makes?
The one thing he does on a consistent basis is slide into first base head first. That needs to be addressed and rectified. But other than that, what? Check out his numbers with runners on third. Has he struggled a bit hitting against all those lefties? Absolutely. Most of the lineup has. All season. Has he made some poor plays in the outfield – a couple, but for the most part he’s been consistently good in the outfield – his worst mistake was the non-doubleplay the other day.
“Wang doesn’t belong in that group because he’s just struggling and has a pretty darn good track record of winning throughout his young career.”
When your #1 starter has an ERA considerably above the league average and has allowed 23 earned runs in his last 23 1/3 innings pitched, he qualifies to be on the list of present issues that need dealing with.
Melky had a nice begining of the season, and he’s hit decently in the last few games.
But that spark he showed the last couple of years isn’t there anymore.
He’s hitting .270 and has a OPB around .320. That really doesn’t cut it.
The chatter about giving Brett a chance is getting stronger, and it’ll keep getting louder until either Brett falls off some in AAA or until Melky starts looking better at the plate.
just because michael kay says it doesnt make it true…
“Yet, he does it again and again and doesn’t listen to his coaches. He’s also extremely lucky that he wasn’t thrown out of the game because he threw his helmet towards the ump.
Pena saved his hide on that.”
that’s inaccurate. look at the play again. look at the play again; 1st off, he didnt throw his helmet towards the ump, he threw it at the ground, and secondly, melky looped all the way over to the stands and was walking back to the dugout when tony pena began to walk over to him. that’s not to mention that he was easily safe, who wouldnt’ be angry.
i like tony pena and all, but kay was just way off base in his description of the incident.
also, his slide into first had absolutly nothing to do with the outcome of the play that ended the game.
My list would be: 1) Find Wang his arm slot, 2) Add a player to the EVERY DAY roster with speed ala Gardner, 3) bullpen reconstruction (we have the pieces, they just aren’t arranged right), 4) TELL CANO TO TAKE PITCHES, 5) Keep Posada healthy, 6) Tell Abreu and Matsui to start slapping pitches the other way. It is unbelievable the strike zone chart on where all the pitches go to those two. They can stare in one spot the entire AB and in 3 pitches have a 90% chance of getting the ball middle-outside.
3)”we have the pieces, they just aren’t arranged right” Absolutely agree. Farnsworth and Hawkins are approaching DFA territory in my opinion, they simply aren’t that useful. I like Veras, Edwar, Ohlendorf, Mariano, Giese and I think Robertson is ready. That leaves one open spot for Melancon or Cox but I don’t think either of those are ready yet.
4) I’m pretty worried about Cano, I think its more than just taking pitches.
6) I think they do that fairly well already.
I’m concerned about Andy because it seems like age is catching up to him. I also think the bench needs to be fixed. Shelley, Moeller, Betemit, Molina is not cutting it. If Posada stays healthy Moeller can be cut. Shelley is worthless right now, he should be sent down. To fill those two spots I’d bring up Gardner and Gonzalez. That would assemble the bench I wanted coming out of spring training. I think it offers everything we could want; defense, some power, decent hitters, pinch runners, speed, 2 guys that can bunt, etc
pete, any thoughts on the draft coverage of other sites that you’d like to share, you old pro, you? interested readers
get it?want to know! know mahs baby!Y’s Guy –
I take it the extension to your name means you’re going to attempt to watch the west coast games in their entirety?? You’re a better fan than I am, that’s for sure!!!
I can’s sleep while they’re playing.
I can’s sleep while they’re playing.
Lets hope for 3 pitchers duels
Melkman and Cano must be pushed. Melkman is easy you have someone in the minors that has a chance to replace him. maybe Melk can get a hangnail go to the 15 day Dl and Gardner could replace him. Should motivate him and maybe he will start listening to his coaches.
Now Cano is much more complicated, we don’t have anyone in the minors who can push him and he knows that. He also signed a big contract this off season that now adds to the problem.I think Cash will be making a trade for second baseman soon, a Grudzlenik type who they could play while Cano sits and ponders his future. My biggest fear with Cano is that he has lost all motivation becuse of the contract he signed.I’ve been a Yankee fan for almost 50 years and Cano is the first homegrown player that i have never warmed up too.There is something about him that i just can’t put my finger on
put melky on the d.l. and bring up a guy who you dont even know can play at the mlb level?
did you ever consider that gardner might bomb in the majors? that would leave you with noodle-arm damon in center.
damn, the gardner hype is begining to approach the malacon hype in here.
i want to see gardner promoted too, but lets try not to get crazy here.
no name
Same here on Cano, it’s over 50 years for me too.Maybe it’s his display of aloofness in the dugout even while playing poorly.
I’ve been a Yankee fan for almost 50 years and Cano is the first homegrown player that i have never warmed up too.There is something about him that i just can’t put my finger on
Just got an email from Yankees that Damon Oppenheime is doing a live chat at MLB.com todayat 2PM.
Here is the link
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/fan_forum/chat/index.jsp?partnerId=enanyy06102008
It’s worth a two week shot at bringing up Gardner, he can do much worse than the Melkman is doing now. I bet he puts some spark in the lineup. Also it will help motivate Cano since his party buddy will be in SWB, Pa maybe he will see the light. 64 games is not a slump that is a disturbing trend
Maybe unconcern is a better word than aloof to describe Cano’s behavior in the dugout.
At any rate he needs Larry Bowa’s foot buried up his rump 24/7 apparently.
can’t do much worse
It’s worth a two week shot at bringing up Gardner, he can do much worse than the Melkman is doing now.
Its not like Melky is playing horrible right now, his OPS this season is right around his career OPS. Plus he is playing good defense like always. I think Gardner should get a call-up too but why throw Melky under the bus?
You promote players from AAA based on how they’ve preformed.
Right now, preformance wise, Melky and Brett are heading in different directions. When you take what each brings to the table at their respective levels, then Brett looks better and better.
He gives the team a speed. Real, natural speed. And he’s a smart base runner. His OBP and SLG continue to rise in AAA, while Melkys slowly falls.
He doesn’t have as good of an arm as Melky, but his legs let him cover about as much ground. He doesn’t have the HR power that Melky does, but he has already raked a whole bunch of doubles and triples.
Another thing hurting his chances, is that hes a pure lefty. Something that Yankees already have in spades.
what a shame Cano is such a talent. It won’t be long before they will boo him out of the stadium. Again my prediction Cano and Melk elsewhere next year.
i have no problem with sending shelley back to aaa and trying gardner, but dl ing melky when you dont know if gardner can get on base or play cf in the majors is a ridiculous risk that they arent going to take.
It could be that Cano just responds much better to the one on one coaching he was getting while Bowa was onboard.
Thank goodness for Rasner. Five out of six quality starts (in fact, 2 runs or fewer in those 5).
two weeks down in the minors will do Melkman wonders, trust me. He and Cano have gotten very comfortable in the majors, time for a shake up
thats ridiculous, aaa time will do nothing for melky and will leave the yankees without a major league caliber centerfielder.
just curious, why would you want to take that chance when shelly duncan is growing moldy on the bench and contributing nothing to the team?
Cano is in a slump right now but I think in the long term it will help him build character and become a more mature person. This year might be a lost year for him in terms of his stats but I don’t think he’s done as a player. I think he will be a very good Yankee for a long time.
Cano is actually slowly coming out of his slump. In May he hit .295 and so far in June he’s hitting .297. He is still slugging lower than he should and his OBP is abyssmal but at least we are seeing improvement.
btw, when somebody says ‘trust me,’ i don’t.
I don’t like the manager. No, that isn’t strong enough for how I feel against Girardi. His hiring has killed a lot of my passion for the Yankees. I have been a fan for more than 50 years, watched some great teams and some poor teams, but never has a member of the team brought me to a point where I am right now. While I don’t like seeing the Yankees lose, I am in a quandry about how to feel about each win that Girardi gets as manager. As a catcher he didn’t put me off as he does as manager. The make up of the whole team seemed to change when he got the job, and not for the better.
Cano isn’t a favorite of mine, but I think some of his problems comes from the language barrier he has, and his comfort level with it. I think he makes some outstanding plays but because he makes them look so easy, it seems commonplace. His batting gets frustrating, but I don’t want to see him replaced at this time.
Melky is a puzzle. He shows some signs of being a pretty good CF. I don’t care if he is a super-star. He could be solid, which is more than enough. He has bad habits, but if he had good coaching he might overcome that. Might.
I don’t like Meachem at 3rd at all. He has caused a number of outs because of sending the runner when they had no chance.
Shelley can play 1B, thats the only reason he’s still around.
If Ben Broussard keeps playing at a solid level, you could see him and Shelley switch.
Gardner can play any OF position but I don’t believe he’s played anywhere else.
If you switch him and Shelley, that leaves you with Bettimit and Giambi as your 1B options… And Bettimit is also your backup 3B and SS, so it’s a little risky sending Shelley down for Gardner.
And just where do you rank our ML caliber CF in the AL? I would say the lower half, he’s at the bottom in the Al east
This is how crazy people talk, people like Dynasty this is your guy now listen to how he makes his points.
In one of the craziest articles known to man Ian O’Connor “on drugs I guess” wrote his opinion on Joba being misused, you people that want JOba in the bullpen should listen to this one and maybe then you’ll understand why you sound so misguided. For effect you guys should read Ian’s comments like a coming attraction movie flick, you know that guy in the movie intros where he said’s in a menacing voice “Coming Soon”
As a starter, Joba Chamberlain does not come across as the same bogeyman who lived in the pen. He was far more menacing as a hooded slash-and-gash figure who came and went in a bloody eighth-inning snap.
What ? I guess he means Joba was more dominant. I guess.
This Joba stays around a tad too long, and blends into the scenery a bit too much, to inspire unbridled dread in the opposition. He still strikes a confident pose, but the explosive temperament that fueled his fastball with vile intentions has to be tamed now in the name of perspective and pace.
Is it me or did he miss Joba sitting 94-98 mph and topping out at 99 ? And ofcourse he’s gonna stay around long and blend in he’s a freaking starter what does Ian expect 1 pitch 3 outs ?
Chamberlain is being asked by his bosses to see the big picture, so his fist-pumping rage wasn’t evident on a Sunday when the temperature gauge was more conspicuous than the radar gun. Up and down, Joba swore that he would carry the same intensity across a starter’s workday that was a setup man’s best friend.
Righhhhhhhhht….... because when Joba got into his fist pumps it was recieved well by the media. The radar gun read 99 MPH Ian with good location at that.
It isn’t humanly possible. No matter how many games he started in college and in the minors, and no matter how many Yankee scouts swear he has the stuff to become the staff ace, Chamberlain was born to seek and destroy in a quick late-night raid.
This is Dynasty-esque at it’s best, let me translate this he just said even though Joba has always been a starter in his life and the evidence proves from even ML scouts and samples in the minors and college that he is a starter for some reason his opinion over exceeds all proof of him being starter. You see why Nick in SF and CB and SJ and whozat and I get frustrated combating these opinions from outside posters.
He wasn’t born to linger on an oppressive early summer day.
What
Sure, Chamberlain did just fine in his second start, surrendering three runs (two earned) and five hits over 4¤ innings in a 6-3 victory over the Royals, and throwing 78 pitches after Joe Girardi said the goal was to have him fire 75 to 77. But Kansas City is a wretched lot, and Chamberlain did leave the game with his team on the wrong end of a 3-2 score.
This guy seems to miss Joba is basically pitching w/ one hand behind his back, basically limited w/ his pitch count, and is it me did he just not say Joba did fine ?
He threw a lazy slider that Jose Guillen sent crashing into the left-field seats, and before the ball cleared the airspace over the infield, Chamberlain lowered his head and stepped toward his dugout, knowing it wouldn’t be coming back.
Is he writting a pirate’s tale or something…what’s the need for “crashing into the LF seats” and “cleared the airspace” and “knowing it wouldn’t come back” ? Weird guy. Anyway lets continue.
Never mind that the Yankees shouldn’t be orchestrating this awkward transition in-season, treating a June game like a split-squad scrimmage in March. They shouldn’t be making Chamberlain a starter at any point of the calendar year.
Split quad ? And we had a chance to win both games if the offense would have showed up. The last comment is just ridiculous to even breakdown. Continue..
It’s all water under the bridge to Mariano Rivera, the closer Joba was scheduled to succeed. But the Yankee owners and scouts and wayward starters got in the way, and so Chamberlain will be the Bronx’s Beckett when his mentality screams that he should be the Bronx’s Papelbon-to-be.
The wayward starters got in the way ? Ian since January of 2008 even before that they(the Yankeees FO) said this is how they would handle Joba, Kennedy/Hughes or not they would have found a spot for him.
Close enough. Chamberlain will get 90 to 95 pitches next time around, and then about 105 the start after that.
One shackle at a time, the Yankees are liberating Joba in the hope he’ll make the struggles of Andy Pettitte and Chien-Ming Wang easier to navigate. Chamberlain looked more like a starter Sunday afternoon than he did Tuesday night, but he didn’t look himself.
What ? How didn’t he look like himself ? Where is the explanation another opinion. Continue…
Said Girardi of Joba’s high-volume approach out of the pen: “I think you can keep that [intensity] all the way throughout a game.â€
I don’t. Chamberlain is at his best as a manic slasher and gasher who feeds on an opponent’s vulnerability before disappearing into the night.
As a starter the bogeyman is out in the open, looking a little too human to inspire widespread panic and fear.
Ok relax guy, Joba was SU man, he’s always been a starter these comments sounds like you’ve been reading too many Marvel Super Hero comics, “as a manic slasher and gasher” WTF does this mean is he Shredder or Scarface, “disappearing into the night” you sir must be on drugs I’m done !
cano made 2 good plays in the field yesterday, had 7 hits in the k.c. series, has been working the counts of late and when he grounded out, he’s been busting it full speed up the lines. and now ppl want him sent down to aaa?
that will help alot, trust me.
Ian O’Connor “on drugs about Joba” article
Enjoy it folks I know I did.
Y’s Guy and Doreen,
I couldn’t care less what Michael Kay said. I saw what happened with my own eyes, so I didn’t need any commentary from him.
Melky threw his helmet. You can’t do that. Period.
He was safe, but you don’t protest the call by throwing your helmet. Don’t be surprised if Melky gets fined by Bob Watson for his antics. And he should.
How many times does Melky have to be told by the coaching staff not to slide into first base over the last three years?
He’s done it many many many times and hasn’t learned. He did it last week. He also did it against Cleveland in the postseason last year and would have been safe on the play had he ran all the way through the bag.
It’s inexcusable.
Sliding into first is not only moronic, but dangerous. It has to stop. He needs a kick in the arse and Gardner could provide some competition for him and a speed dimension that the team could really use.
Competition is best for the team. Cano doesn’t have any competition in the minors so they’ll have to figure out another way to kick him in the arse.
A little minor league knowledge is a dangerous thing in the hands of some people here.
Prospects are just that until proven to be more. Gardner might have skills the Yanks can use. He deserves a chance to prove himself at some point but there are no guarantees those skills are major league caliber. The next savior is often the flavor of the month so be careful of banishing known quantity for wishing ang hoping.
when someone say trust me I don’t…....... We aren’t talking about sending Cano down. Melkman has to be sent packing SWB or the DL. He is at best a marginal CF, again tell me who where he ranks in the AL? It kills me to say this but the Sux have CF’s better than Melk
That’s 2 CF’s better than the yanks sorry about that
At least we have GI JOE Girardi to help Cano along… oh wait.
“Gibson lost nine games with 1.12 ERA.”
That is just sick.
I wish Betemit would play 2nd for a few days…Cano needs to get his act together.
“he’s at the bottom in the Al east” – were you counting jay peyton or adam dunn above him there?
adam jones i meant to say
I am kind of getting the feeling that each day a player is chosen for nitpicking. (In general, that is.) Today, that player is Melky, because he figured in two plays yesterday – the head-first slide and the final out. What makes it especially expedient to pick Melky is that there is a “Gardner,” an actual player, for people to “replace” him with. It’s almost humorous.
What’s also interesting is how much faith people are putting in a player who hasn’t played in the majors yet, while at the same time wanting to return Duncan, who contributed some last year but so far has not really done very this season. I would think Shelley’s experience would make people gun-shy about bringing up another AAA guy into the mix. I could also mention IPK and Hughes, but pitchers are a different story, a different breed.
Giuseppe –
I didn’t hear what Michael Kay had to say – I never listen to his radio show. I agree with you that the head-first slides must stop. He should be, at the very least, heavily fined every time he does it. Since he’s not making millions yet, it might actually make a difference. What I disagreed with was your statement that he makes consistent bumbling mental errors, and I challenged you that aside from the head-first slides, what else is there?
If your position is that those slides are enough of a reason to decide he’s a bad player, then we’re not going to agree on that. That’s okay with me. We’re both entitled to see things differently in that regard.
A little minor league info is a dangerous thing in the hands of some people here.
Gardner deserves a chance to prove or disprove himself at some point but let’s not start annointing people savior when they haven’t even proven themselves to be flavor of the month at the major league level. Melky is the kind of role player that many here always complain that this team needs. Then when he isn’t a superstar, you want him banished.
melky’s in the top 10 in the league, imo.
pat –
Amen.
Doreen – It’s like in football – when a team is not playing well everyone is yelling for the back-up QB no matter who he is.
Melky had a bad last at-bat yesterday but I don’t think sending him down is the answer. I do however, think that the Yanks need a speed guy to be in the starting line-up or to pinch run off the bench. I don’t think that Chad Moeller is an ideal pinch runner! I am not as familiar with the SWB roster as others on this blog, so maybe it’s Gardner, maybe there is someone else. But right now I think the Yanks need a speed guy and that Duncan is taking up a roster spot.
Doreen,
Let’s get something straight. I’m not suggesting they outright replace Melky with Gardner and leave him there.
What I am suggesting is that Melky needs some competition because he clearly lacks motivation right now.
He got that competition in Spring Training and he excelled.
Cashman himself has also said that Melky is going to have to earn CF if he wants to keep it. He wasn’t going to get that job by default. Clearly, Melky hasn’t learned from his mistakes and needs to be reminded that this is a performance business.
There are other options in the minors ready to push him over the next couple of years. Gardner happens to be that guy right now. Also, he can provide a speed dimension they really don’t have right now so they’d be killing two bird with one stone.
I’d suggest some competition for Cano as well, but there is nobody in the minors to provide it.
all the young guys are failing.. wow the comments here are classic.
yeah wang with
60 wins has been a real failure.cano with a career 307 avg. in over 3 yrs. the same.. really read what you type before you send it.
Karstens stinks and always will..
“No to add fuel to the fire but 5 of the 5 Yankee youngsters that Cashman has brought up are failing right now (Melky, Cano, Wang, Hughes, Karstens).”
And last year Wang and Cano were two of the best players in the league, so what’s your point?
For the better part of 2 and a half years Wang and Cano have been two of the best players in the league and Melky has provided okay numbers for a ninth place hitter.
Everybody struggles in baseball. Everyone. It’s considered good if you make an out 63% of the time.
here’s who i have above melky in the a.l.(no particular order), please feel free to tell me who else is better:
upton, pedroia, wells, ichiro, hunter, hamilton, gomez, sizemore. swisher if you consider him a cf.
he’s not great, but for a #9 hitter, he’s better than alot of guys, and on defense he’s one of the best in the league.
the platoon melky idea is terrible and thankfully one that the yankees will obviously not consider. one hot week with the bat and half the crowd calling for it will want to sign melky to a 4 year extension… With melky you have a strong arm, solid defense and lots of upside at the plate. He’s still very young. If you want gardner up, so be it, but you’re kidding yourself if you think he will be anything but a pinch runner / one in every ten game starter.
left murphy off the list
“The chatter about giving Brett a chance is getting stronger, and it’ll keep getting louder until either Brett falls off some in AAA or until Melky starts looking better at the plate.”
Neither of which look likely.
doreen, i guess you didnt get the memo about ‘kick melky day’ either. they need to update the mailing list.
“did somebody declare ‘kick melky day’ and not notify me? or is it just a regular practice to crush whomever made the last (of 27) outs the previous game.”
That’s the problem with this board. Everyone wants a minor league player to come up and produce like Bonds from day one. If the player struggles it’s DFA that player.
Point in case Shelly Duncan. There were hundreds of posts begging Cashman to bring up Shelly. Now there are hundreds of posts begging Cashman to DFA Shelly.
“Point in case Shelly Duncan. There were hundreds of posts begging Cashman to bring up Shelly. Now there are hundreds of posts begging Cashman to DFA Shelly.”
There were hundreds of people begging Cashman to give Shelly a SHOT. Whether or not people expected him to be around for the long haul you really can’t tell.
sorry i should have indicated that my list was rating cf’s by offense only, not defense. so i have him as the 10th best offensive cf in the al, he’s definatly in the top 3 or 4 on defense, so that puts him overall in the top half of cf’s in the a.l. pretty impressive really.
14 Teams in the Al Cf’s better than Melky
Hunter Wells Granderson Sizemore Ichiro Hamilton B J Upton Ellsbury ( Crisp) Probably Jones ( more upside) Gomez gathright and who ever Oakland plays. Yeah he’s top 10 maybe out of 10th out 14. Y’s guy he marginal at best
rookie left handed pitcher…..its going to be a long night for the yankees…I dont see them winning one game in this series.
what is that list? murphy? as in dave murphy? nick swisher? better than melky? Pedroia plays second base… I cant make heads or tails of what that list is…
“Right now, preformance wise, Melky and Brett are heading in different directions. When you take what each brings to the table at their respective levels, then Brett looks better and better.
He gives the team a speed. Real, natural speed. And he’s a smart base runner. His OBP and SLG continue to rise in AAA, while Melkys slowly falls.”
One is in the MINORS and the other one is in the MAJORS. I think that makes a big difference.
Gardner has been older than Melky at every level in the minors. Gardner is 24 in AAA, Melky was 21 in AAA.
Despite being older than Melky at every level Gardners minor league OPS in only .007 higher than Melky’s was in the minors.
Melky’s minor league OPS was .766, Gardner’s is .773.
“What I am suggesting is that Melky needs some competition because he clearly lacks motivation right now.”
Guiseppe – I would be very worried if that was the problem. In my opinion, if someone needs competition to maintain their position or play at the high level that they are capable, then I don’t want them on my team.
I don’t think that’s Melky’s problem. Personally, I don’t think Melky’s play will be affected much by Gardner coming up.
gathright is hitting .240,jones .249, “whoever oakland plays” would that be davis (.240) or gonzalez (.220)?
It is useless comparing minor league offensive statistics. Speed is completely underrated. Speed makes opposing pitchers sweat, gives them something to think about. Gardner gets on base and we have fastballs to Damon and Jeter. Bases loaded for Abreu and ARod all the time.
Where would the Mets be without Reyes? Even when Reyes is sucking, if you take him out and replace him with someone who is hitting borderline better, it isn’t helping the team.
Russell NY you are living in La La land it’s human nature people sometimes need a kick in the butt to get going again, sometimes they just get a little comfortable. It happens all the time.
Those 3 right now are not as good as Melk, but that’s it there are 9 better than him, Y’s guy
“There were hundreds of people begging Cashman to give Shelly a SHOT. Whether or not people expected him to be around for the long haul you really can’t tell.”
Yeah, and now those same people want Duncan taken behind a barn and SHOT.
raymagnetic –
I would even say if you make an out 70% of the time (hit .300), you’re doing well.
sorry i have a problem with pedroia and ellsbury, and is there another swisher im not aware of? he does occasionally play cf (sunday), although i wouldnt count him as one.
thats 9 better than melky on offense. and hes in the upper half on defense. thats not bad, certainly no reason to send him down to aaa as you suggested, or to dl him with a fake injury.
“Where would the Mets be without Reyes? Even when Reyes is sucking, if you take him out and replace him with someone who is hitting borderline better, it isn’t helping the team.”
Jose Reyes has speed and pop. For the past three years he’s been an above average offensive player in the NL. It’s not just speed with Reyes that people are worried about.
Another thing about Gardner, he strikes out a lot. He’s already struck out 48 times this year in 220 minor league at bats. How often do you think he’ll strike out in the majors?
Y’s guy you shoildn’t drink in the AM Pedroia is 2nd baseman Ellsbury / Crisp is better than Melk. Only with worse CF’S are the W/S.Oak KC Minny so your right he is a top 10 Cf in the AL 10th of 14.
I’m excited about Gardner too—and he looked great Saturday night. But Pat’s right: “He deserves a chance to prove himself at some point but there are no guarantees those skills are major league caliber.”
But he’s now hitting .295, with OPS of .862 (and trending upwards). That’s better than Jacoby Ellsbury was doing in Pawtucket last year (with similar SB prowess).
raymagnetic ®™-
Right right.
I just feel that Gardner adds an important aspect to the team that Melky doesn’t. The team needs a spark, and it doesn’t seem like it’s going to come from the guys on the team now.
I don’t think Melky is bad, I just think the Yankees could benfit from adding someone who has the chance to bring something more to the table.
Of course it’s no garuntee that Brett would do anything positive in the Majors.
But offense is contageious. If he could get things going just a little bit. If he could add just a little spark to the team, then maybe it’ll help some other guys get going.
Cash may prefer Castro because he sees Matsui as 4th OF and Gardner would be a 5th OF. In reality, however, with Giambi playing almost every day, Matsui is the DH, not the 4th OF.
Duncan’s only benefit to the team is RH power as a PH, and he’s not getting enough ABs to keep it fresh so he’s not serving any purpose right now. IMO either get Duncan some ABs or move him. I’d move him.
But I’m not suggesting that they replace Melky with Gardner. My goal is to send Duncan back and keep all 3 catchers. That way you can baby Posada a little more to make sure he lasts the rest of the season, allowing him to DH and get another half day off playing 1st once in a while. Without Posada, this team is just lost, IMO. So, preserve Po’s arm and shoulder while keeping his bat in the lineup. Is he really that much worse at 1st base than Duncan?
If you use Po at 1st to spell Giambi and Gardner is the extra OF and speed guy for situational running, the odd man out is Duncan because he plays 1st base and corner OF. Right handed power off the bench is not happening this year with the current roster.
What I really hope though is that our man Melky steps it up!
everyone yelling for melky’s head right at this very moment seems to be forgetting that he is one of the streakiest players in baseball. he is not baseball jesus but he is pretty serviceable, plus the rest of the offense is supposed to be able to carry a player like him who is around for defensive purposes.
bringing up gardner to linger on the bench and pinchrun and play every now and then isn’t a great idea for him or the team. he needs to be playing just about every day right now. if they need to bring up a pinch runner it should not be him.
I’d say Wells, Ichiro, Hunter, Ellsbury, Upton, Hamilton, Swisher (if you count him as CF), Sizemore and Granderson are better offensively than Melky. According to RZR Melky is a better defender than Upton, Swisher, Wells, Ichiro, Hunter, and Hamilton. So say he’s the 10th best hitting CF and the fourth best fielding CF. Thats not bad.
Melky isn’t as good as several CF’s in the AL but that doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player. He’s a great fielder with a so-so bat. Even if his future isn’t as our starting CF, he can still stick around as a fourth outfielder.
yes, i didnt suggest melky was anything more than an average cf, with his combined offense and defense he is in the middle in the league.
you are the one suggesting he should be sent down to aaa or be put on the dl, not me
i was only answering your question about where he ranks in the a.l.
your assumption that gardner is better than melky is ridiculous and your suggestion that mekly needs to go back to aaa is laughable.
i appologized above for mistaking ellsbury and pedroia.
I don’t know where the idea you need to compare melky’s offense to that of other AL CF’s came up, especially when the guy you’re hoping to spell/replace him is a speed guy. You’d be better suited to compare him to other team’s #9 hitters… I have an odd feeling that would look ok.
That of course completely ignores his defense and assumes gardner will have no trouble adapting to CF in yankee stadium (wagers?)
Yeah, and now those same people want Duncan taken behind a barn and SHOT.
your misinterpreting alot of things the point w/ Shelley is he has earned his way back to Scranton because by process of elimination Wilson Betemit already fills the role he was fighting for. Wilson right now is the better RHB since returning from AAA vs LHP .429/.429/.429 in 7 AB and vs RHP .300/.364/.600 in 3 AB. See Wilson right now is filling a need, Shelley’s bat translates vs LHP .000/.250/.000 in before that it was .243/.310/.405 if he can’t hit LHP and is making outs in his samples and isn’t a defensive upgrade, why is he still here ?
Exactly what DMan says above, plus I don’t understand the hesitation to give our minor leaguers a shot.
If we get so hung up on Melky and ignore the abilities of Gardner then we got a logjam.
So we find out Melky and Gardner are on the same playing level… Melky’s got the arm, Gardner’s got the speed… but overall the same. What have we gained? A trading chip.
What teams would be interested in Gardner if he hasn’t established himself in the majors? Teams already know what Melky can do. Give Gardner a shot.
“raymagnetic –
I would even say if you make an out 70% of the time (hit .300), you’re doing well.:
Doreen, exactly.
bringing up gardner to linger on the bench and pinchrun and play every now and then isn’t a great idea for him or the team. he needs to be playing just about every day right now. if they need to bring up a pinch runner it should not be him.
he has 1 yr. of service left before rule 5 so he has to come up this season
“your assumption that gardner is better than melky is ridiculous”
Not completely. Only one way to find out.
so patricks ratings match mine exactly, and i just threw out the ‘top 10 offensively and top 3 or 4 defensivly’ off the top of my head.
bottom line, melky’s doing fine, dl’ing him for gardner or sending him to aaa is ridiculous.
Melky to step it up….......... this is what you get look at the previus 2 years he is right on pace to do what he has done in the past. He is a lower ranked Cf in the AL… lets face it guys it is what it is look at the numbers
russel, i started out by saying that id like to see them bring gardner up. but i was responding to the guy who said they should dl melky to bring up gardner.
Melk’s a 4th outfielder on most contenders
Brandon,
I’m not misinterpreting anything when it comes to Duncan. In my opinion Duncan will go back down to Scranton and start hammering the ball again. Betemit will struggle or have a bad offensive day. Folks here will then start yelling for Cashman to give Shelly another shot cause Betemit is a bum
Melk’s a 4th outfielder on most contenders
Ok so make him the fourth outfielder but why send him to AAA or put him on the DL with a phantom injury?
“Ok so make him the fourth outfielder but why send him to AAA or put him on the DL with a phantom injury?”
Where else are you going to put him? You only really need 4 capable outfielders.
bret gardner is mickey mantle
no name, since you want to get rid of melky before you see if gardner can play, i have 2 questions for you:
1) have you ever seen gardner play?
2) where will gardner rate among a.l. center fielders when they send melky down and put him in cf every day?
I’m personally not saing Brett is better than Melky. Maybe he is, but who knows?
I’m saying that Brett brings something to the table that no current Yankee does. Real speed.
He gives the Yankees a new element. Something different to try and get the offensive gears turning.
I’m not trying to say that Brett will carry the team, or hit .450 like Jay Bruce… But he might be able to add a little something that helps the rest of the team get going.
“bret gardner is mickey mantle”
Francis – I have no idea why, but I was thinking the same thing lol. Perhaps it is the way he looks, sorta? But yea, Brett Gardner is the next Mickey Mantle. Only faster, and is going to hit 900 career homeruns. Oh, and he will win WS MVP 5 years in a row.
DMan gets it. lol
“no name, since you want to get rid of melky before you see if gardner can play, i have 2 questions for you:
1) have you ever seen gardner play?
2) where will gardner rate among a.l. center fielders when they send melky down and put him in cf every day?”
I know you weren’t asking me but I have seen Gardner play and he is VERY fast. The kind of fast that makes teams sweat bullets. Good player, didn’t seem to hit for power when I saw him but that’s not what the Yanks need from him.
Where will Gardner rate? May not start off on Melky’s level but if he continues to make contact and run the way he is now, he will be up there.
Brandon,
I’m not misinterpreting anything when it comes to Duncan. In my opinion Duncan will go back down to Scranton and start hammering the ball again. Betemit will struggle or have a bad offensive day. Folks here will then start yelling for Cashman to give Shelly another shot cause Betemit is a bum
If Shelley hammers the ball in AAA then he becomes a trade piece remember Shelley is 28 yrs. old it’s not like he has that much of an upside, what you see right now is what you get. As for Betemit I told you guys he’s been improving, LD% is at 29.7, he’s cutting down on his strikeouts because he’s laying off of the offspeed junk. He is on pace to have a very good year if he stays healthy. You saying Betemit is bum again opinion but the facts show he is not.
I think Gardner will get a shot this year at some point but it isn’t likely to be at the expense of Melky. If getting younger is really the goal, both could have a place on the 25 man roster in the future.
Maybe the Yankees should sign a Kenyon runner
What has happened to this board?? Forget about making the playoff, the team better start winning so some of our fellow posters can regain sanity.
Yesterday someone accused Mariano Rivera a career Yankee and best closer in history of the sport of having no heart. Today someone named Wang he who has the most wins in the league two years running as an example of Cashman’s failure. What’s next, DFA Jeter and send Arod to Scranton??
I am frustrated too but I keep reminding myself that these are athletes, not machines. They have slumps. Imagine if everyone plays perfectly all the time and we win every game, would we still have so much fun as fans?
“Where else are you going to put him? You only really need 4 capable outfielders.”
Well first of all the bottom line is, Gardner is not supplanting Melky at any point this season. Perhaps next spring training Gardner will be made the starter but before then he will only be a part time player.
Secondly with Gardner we would only have 4 capable outfielders; Melky, Damon, Gardner, Abreu. Matsui should be full time DH and fifth outfielder. My ideal roster right now would be: Damon, Jeter, Abreu, Rodriguez, Matsui, Giambi, Posada, Cano, Melky, Gardner, Gonzalez, Betemit, Molina, 12 pitchers.
“You saying Betemit is bum again opinion but the facts show he is not.”
Actually I never said Betemit is a bum. I said if Betemit struggles people will be calling for him to be DFA’d calling him a bum and screaming for Cashman to bring Shelly back. This exact scenario has already happened once.
No where though did I say Betemit is a bum.
russel, i’ve seen him play several times in trenton and once in scranton, i agree that he has a ton of speed, and i want him to get his chance. but to send melky down to make room for him is folly, and will never happen.
im a little worried that he wont be able to get on base enough, but i want to see them give him a shot, but you cant send melky down to do it. i think cash is waiting b/c the chances are pretty good that damon or matsui or abreu will miss some time to injury and then they can bring him up and give him alot of playing time.
but taking it out on melky, as everyone seems to want to do today is just scapegoating.
better meat has been very solid since coming off the dl and wearing glasses.
I don’t think sending Melky down is the best option.
But why not platoon him with Brett?
Brett is a lefty, so he could play some games when theres a righty pitching. You give the games with left handed starters to Melky.
It could be that the Yankees plan to bring Gardner up next year, park him in Center and move Melky over to RF. I think they should re-sign Abreu so I don’t like this plan. Moving Melky to LF would mean that either Damon or Matsui has to be traded. Not a big fan of that either although I’d rather part with Damon than Matsui.
I said if Betemit struggles people will be calling for him to be DFA’d calling him a bum and screaming for Cashman to bring Shelly back. This exact scenario has already happened once.
And those people have been proven wrong while stupidly defending Shelley Duncan’s ineffectiveness in this line up.
No where though did I say Betemit is a bum.
My mistake.
“Brett is a lefty, so he could play some games when theres a righty pitching. You give the games with left handed starters to Melky.”
Melky is a switch hitter. Isn’t his Right side his weaker side?
upton, pedroia, wells, ichiro, hunter, hamilton, gomez, sizemore. swisher if you consider him a cf.
I had no idea Pedroia was a center fielder. Unless u meant Ellsbury.
I wasn’t pleased with Melky’s last at-bat yesterday, but I’m not willing to write him off. I’d like to see a bit more production from him but then again, he is batting ninth. He has decent range and an excellent arm. As for Gardner, I’d like to see what he can do at the Major League level, so I would support sending Duncan down and giving Gardner an opportunity. Given Duncan’s performance, what is there really to lose ?
Melky is a switch hitter. Isn’t his Right side his weaker side?
Yup. And Brett is better vs LHP although he’s done good on both sides, I wouldn’t platoon Melky and Brett, I’d give one of them 2 days and the other 3 to keep them fresh.
ok, for the 3rd time (maybe people should read down the posts before commenting) im sorry i put in pedroia when i meant ellsbury.
“Yup. And Brett is better vs LHP although he’s done good on both sides, I wouldn’t platoon Melky and Brett, I’d give one of them 2 days and the other 3 to keep them fresh.”
I would have to guess that Gardner’s prowess vs LHP’s has to be a fluke. That said I would love to see a platoon of Melky and Gardner but not strictly depending on what type of pitcher is throwing.
Frank Discussion-
I’m not up for writing him off either. I think a lot of people are ‘mis-understanding’ what some of us are saying.
We’re looking to bring Gardner up to add a new wrinkle to the Yankees offense, not to completely replace Melky forever… Just to add another element for the Yankees to work with to try and get the team on a roll.
Both players can bring different positive things to a team. All I’m saying is that giving Brett a chance could open some doors and provide a spark that this team needs.
Does anyone truly believe the problem with this team is Melky? It’s real simple the two most glaring problems are the bench and the pitching. The offense has come around, but Andy has a 5 era, wang a 4.5, and they haven’t had a true 5th starter for 4/5 the season.
Unless Brett Gardner can pitch, he’s not the answer. Maybe replacing Duncan with Gardner and letting him be a 4th OF and giving him regular work would help. Until Andy and Wang get it turned around, this team will hang around .500,
Don’t even get me started on our pen…
“Today someone named Wang he who has the most wins in the league two years running as an example of Cashman’s failure.”
There is a very big difference between “someone is failing right now” and “someone is a complete failure.” Please read carefully before you start altering people’s words to fit your argument.
“Melky is a switch hitter. Isn’t his Right side his weaker side?”
Yes. The numbers argue against a true Melky/Gardner platoon.
However, Shelley’s not doing a helluva lot better against Lefties. Plus if you figure that sending down Duncan means keeping the three catchers, you can rest Po or get him ABs at 1st base and DH occasionally when he’s not behind the plate. You can think of Po as your RH power PH when he’s not in the lineup.
“Wilson right now is the better RHB since returning from AAA vs LHP .429/.429/.429 in 7 AB and vs RHP .300/.364/.600 in 3 AB”
How is he hitting .300 in 3 AB? I am pretty sure that is impossible:
0-3 = .000
1-3 = .333
2-3 = .667
3-3 = 1.000
Doreen
I did not suggest sending Melky down either, but it might not be a bad idea to send Duncan down or Moeller when it is determined that Jorge is healthy to promote Gardner.
I know (carrying Gardner) it is a 5th outfielder, but I also agree with the point that a little competition might Melky’s game.
This team cannot slug it’s way out of every game, it needs to manaufacture runs. Rasner’s 3-3 record 2.58 a testiment to that.
An example of what Gardner can do is if you walk Carl Crawford what you have ultimately done is give him a “walking triple” because he can then steal his way to third, or get there on pass balls and drive the pitcher crazy doing so.
This is a dimension Gardner could give us, also provide a speedy pinch for guys like Giambi and Posada late in close games.
I don’t think any these points demean Melky’s presence on the team.
I agree completely, DMan, I’d like to see what Gardner brings to the table as well. I’d really like seeing some speed on the basepaths. We’ll never know what he can do unless he is given the opportunity. As it stands right now I’m more concerned with Cano then I am with Melky.
The guys over at “River Ave. Blues” have an interesting thread going on the whole Melky / Gardner debate…
“Damon, Jeter, Abreu, Rodriguez, Matsui, Giambi, Posada, Cano, Melky, Gardner, Gonzalez, Betemit, Molina, 12 pitchers.”
Sounds good to me. Giese has made himself known.
“Does anyone truly believe the problem with this team is Melky?”
I’m pretty sure only “no name” thinks that.
“It’s real simple the two most glaring problems are the bench and the pitching.”
Gardner would really help one of those problems in my opinion.
“Maybe replacing Duncan with Gardner and letting him be a 4th OF and giving him regular work would help.”
Thats exactly what I think. Obviously Gardner isn’t going to be our savior but I think he can help the team right now.
In other words, I agree with everything DMan just posted.
William Buckner-
Yup thats a great point.
Gardner can’t help the pitching, and it wouldn’t be in his or the teams best interest to sit him on the bench for days at a time like Shelley, maybe using him once or twice to pinch run.
I would have to guess that Gardner’s prowess vs LHP’s has to be a fluke. That said I would love to see a platoon of Melky and Gardner but not strictly depending on what type of pitcher is throwing.
He’s hit power pitching too, don’t let his shortness full you. RISP vs whoever .327/.462/.510 and a .972 OPS 22 of his total 25 RBI are from RISP situations. 27% LD rate in June.
15% LD .299/.369/.483 in 87 AB
24% LD .266/.407/.383 in 94 AB
27% LD .367/.486/.500 in 30 AB
betemit is now established as legitimate? it’s amazing how 2 weeks makes or breaks careers in some peoples eyes, it’s not like betemit couldn’t hack it for 5 years with other clubs before “becoming a yankee” and then once he got his shot with the yanks had some of the worst at bats ever witnessed in mlb history last august… oh wait that did happen, but yeah he’s 3 for his last 19, someone lock him up quick!
“Does anyone truly believe the problem with this team is Melky?”
I don’t. I think the biggest problems are overall team age, insufficient reliable starting pitching and the bullpen.
That said, a real issue is the bench. Duncan isn’t doing his job and there are 3 catchers. Gotta fix that.
albany, your math is correct but adds absolutly nothing to the discussion.
AlbanyYankee it’s on MLB.com player page. I’ll check the others.
Sounds good to me. Giese has made himself known.
No doubt, my pitching staff would be this: Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Rasner, Chamberlain, Giese, Robertson, Ramirez, Ohlendorf, Veras, Farnsworth, Rivera.
I think Robertson is ready for a callup and Hawkins should be DFA’d. I would also DFA or trade Farnsworth as soon as Cox or Melancon is ready. Once Kennedy, Hughes, Horne, Sanchez, Albaladejo, Bruney, etc are healthy the possibilities will be endless.
I wanna see the Yankees win this series.
We have to start friggin winning series. Must!
James, what the stats show is when he makes contact outs or in play he makes hardouts or gets hard hits in 08’. No one is saying lock him up which btw I think he has 3 yrs. of service left counting this year so he is not a FA anytime soon and if he is it won’t cost much.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks0610,0,4841915.story
Hopefully they were discussing player moves? Maybe when they return home we’ll see a few new faces one of them being Brett? Fingers crossed!
The question is whether Cashman and others believe Gardner is an everyday player. If they do and you bring him up, he has to place regularly. If you don’t he can come up and play sparingly, but pinch run, replace Damon for D in late innings, etc.
Betimet remains valuable because he hits better then Duncan and can play all IF positions, although not well. Duncan can’t play D and really doesn’t hit.
I might actually consider keeping 3 catchers for a little longer. Baring injury, this isn’t a team constructed to use the bench that often.
“Does anyone truly believe the problem with this team is Melky? It’s real simple the two most glaring problems are the bench and the pitching.”
William – I don’t think many people in here are saying that the PROBLEM is Melky. It is more the argument that there is no Gardner-type player.
One thing thats certain, they need to add some bench speed.
I haven’t seen Gardner play too much, but has it been established that he has the same cannon that Melky does?
William Buckner
June 10th, 2008 at 11:44 am
One thing thats certain, they need to add some bench speed.
Right right. Which is why a platoon might not be a bad idea.
Although I do see that a righty/lefty platoon isn’t the best idea.
If you don’t he can come up and play sparingly, but pinch run, replace Damon for D in late innings, etc.
Damon is actually one of the better fielding LF’s in the league
laura, gardner has a decent arm, not a cannon.
Gardners arm isn’t as good as Melkys. It’s ok though. He can cover a lot of ground though.
“There is a very big difference between “someone is failing right now†and “someone is a complete failure.†Please read carefully before you start altering people’s words to fit your argument.”
Hey there, who’s altering words now? I never wrote complete failure yet it didn’t stop you from putting it in quotation as if I did.
Any way I’m not here to pick fights, I just don’t think that statement makes sense, and it looks like I’m not the only person confused by what you wrote. Every athlete has had days when they are failing right now by your definition, even Babe Ruth had some slump days. But your point is that Cashman is somehow responsible for Wang’s current slump which I think is unfair. That’s all.
miguel cairo won the game for seattle vs. toronto with a 10th inning safety squeeze.
miguel still doing his thing, helping out the yankees!
“Gardners arm isn’t as good as Melkys. It’s ok though. He can cover a lot of ground though.”
Hmmm. Maybe the plan is to leave Melky in CF and put Gardner in RF. It’s a shorter throw. If that’s the case, I’m going to miss Bobby Abreu.