What’s the deal with Sabathia?
-
- June
- 11
Lots of talk around baseball that Cleveland will trade C.C. Sabathia during the season rather than letting him walk as a free agent. The idea is that the Indians would rather get two or three prospects now than two draft picks next June.
It makes sense, especially if the Indians continue to fade in the Central.
Would the Yankees be smart to try and pick him up knowing he will almost certainly become a free agent once the season is over?
They have the inventory (as Brian Cashman likes to call it) to make a deal. At this point, who is untouchable in their system?
This would be my untouchable list: Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero, Phil Hughes, Andrew Brackman and Mark Melancon
Other than that, have at ‘em.
That includes Jose Tabata, Brett Gardner, Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne, Dellin Betances, Jose Veras, etc.
Remember, this is C.C. Sabathia we’re talking about. The Indians aren’t taking Shelley Duncan and Scott Patterson for the Cy Young Award winner.
They’ll want at least one pitcher. Kennedy, Tabata and Betances. Would that get it done?
Tabata, Betances and Cano. Would you do that? Or do you stay away entirely?
Keep in mind: Whoever trades for Sabathia gets the draft picks when he walks. He’d be a rental but it’s not a total loss if he walks.
This entry was posted
on Wednesday, June 11th, 2008 at 3:25 pm by Peter Abraham.
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Sabathia is sooooo not gonna get traded this year.
I’m with you on this Peter except for Cano.
I don’t mind moving Cano, but I want him moved for top notch outfield or 1B prospects. Not CC Sabathia.
The rest of the players you mention I have no problem moving in a Sabathia trade. With Pettitte and Mussina leaving next year, we need a vet for the rotation. A lefty workhorse like Sabathia is even better since we have no lefties in the system besides that guy from Stanford that was just drafted.
ha! sorry, Pete. you’re about 7.5 hrs too late on this one…
Would not even think about doing it, if you dont make a move for johan you dont for CC
Nothing involving cano please. He might be struggling now but he’s still going to be a superstar!!
Speaking as a girl and fan of the Yankees, I just do not see trading away Cano. He may not be having his best season, but he is very valuable.
Kennedy, Tabata and Betances Maybe.
Kennedy,Tabata and Cano, no.
I would make a horrible GM. I get too emotionally invested in players.
Giving up on Cano, eh Pete?
He would have been an untouchable in March.
Pete,
You’re assuming no window for an extension?
No to that. You don’t give up talent for a rental.
If you’re talking extension, I add Cano to the untouchable list. For now. Subject to change.
A trade midseason might also be beneficial for the Yankees since they’d be able to retain their first round pick in the draft next season. If they sign him next year in the off season they’d lose their first rounder.
Not that I’d let that from keeping me from signing Sabathia, but this might be a good opportunity to move some of our junk out like Kennedy.
I hate RENT A PLAYERS because the Yankees usually get raped on the deal. But I believe Cleveland GAVE us David Justice years ago and that helped to win the World Series. Depending who they want, it might not be a BAD gamble, especially if they get another first round pick if Sabathia decides to go FA.
Turn two: I’m in Cali. I’m only 4.5 hours late
Turn Two,
Pete’s so Old Mutual.
Melky, Kennedy, Tabata, Betances for CC and Grady,
The Yanks would be able to get a deal done before the end of the season I believe if the price is right and they get CC in a trade.
Pete,
Read the other thread. This was discussed heavily.
BTW, I agree with you. If CC is out there, you have to look to do the deal.
If you include Cano, it lessens the hit you take to the farm system. If Cano isn’t in the deal, they will have to load up on prospects.
I think your list of untouchables is accurate. Those would be on my list.
Either way, if he is out there, its a deal you have to look to do, IMO.
It won’t be a rental. If they get him, they will sign him.
“Melky, Kennedy, Tabata, Betances for CC and Grady,”
Lay off the drugs. They aren’t trading Sizemore. Especially with the cheap deal he’s got.
Kennedy, Tabata and Betances.
I’d do that in a heart beat. Kennedy has to pitch a little better first.
Doesn’t it make sense to be sure the Yankees are going to contend before mortgaging the future? One game above .500 doesn’t count in my book.
Why rent a guy for 2 months if you aren’t going to make the postseason?
The only way that makes sense is if the Yankees tie him up to a long-term deal prior to the trade.
fair point, Pete! we did a pretty good job of debating Cano in the other thread, but you’ve pulled in some other names into the equation, so it does open it up for a second round of discussion.
Kennedy, Tabata, and another player is a reasonable starting point to get it done, with no extention window.
get the extention window, and i think you include Cano in the conversation.
Melky, Kennedy, Tabata, Betances, AND CANO for CC, Grady, and that B guy 2nd baseman.
You don’t trade top prospects for a half year rental then let him walk. You trade those guys and extend the sucker!
2008 Yankees,
Can you use another verb to make your point?
I highly doubt the Indians would be interested in Jose Tabata what with all of his charatcer issues this year and his inability to find his power.
Isn’t Betances hurt? Isn’t Melky too average? I could see Cano as the centerpiece.
———————-
There were reports that the Indians have been scouting the Red Sox minor league system and to quote Stark, “were all over the Red Sox system.”
I like the Dodgers to be in play as well, they have so much talent it isn’t even funny.
2008 Yankees Yeah Justice was the missing piece.
the 2008 Yankees have numerous missing pieces such as; 1 stud starter, 2 reliable pen arms, a 1B option who can field a hit ball, and speed on the bench.. Besides those 4 or 5 players they are set up to win it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“I’d do that in a heart beat. Kennedy has to pitch a little better first.”
thats why when healthy, you stick him down in Scranton, and let him build his value back up.
The argument of why CC if we didnt go for Johan is completely baseless.
CC is younger, has a better build for a pitcher(albeit he battles weight issues) and his number arent dipping(johan’s has) with the exception of CC’s first few starts.
If they can CC without touching thier untouchable list you have to do it. A rotation with CC and Wang would save your bullpen a lot of workload.
Sabathia is not worth trading Cano for. The others, i can trade them for Sabathia but not Cano. I think CC has too many miles on that arm and last year was his career year and won’t get any better than that. He’s had 3 sub 4.00 ERA seasons in his 8 season career. That’s not much of an ace in my book. We can go by last season, but last season is an aberration compared to his other seasons. I wouldn’t give up Cano for him. not in a million years!
I know I’m in the minority here, but I’d still wait on pulling the trigger on Canò. I mean, if his numbers are like this at the end of the season, that’s one thing, ut he is more of a second half guy.
That’s not saying I’m not worried about him; I am, but I’m not quite sure I trade him just yet.
Also, CC, while not old, is also not that young. If the Yanks were to give him a three year deal, that’s one thing, but the Yanks have a habit of doing the long term contracts.
Still not a fan of A-Rod’s contract. Yes, I like A-Rod, but 10 years is a hella long time and that’s assuming everything goes to plan. But that’s another topic for another day.
Tabata, IPK, and John Sterling
I think it’s far more likely he goes elsewhere. Maybe the Cubs. Maybe Boston..
Hell no to a mere rental
If I were to complete a trade for him, he’s getting locked up
So the sticking point is more the contract (as discussed in the previous thread)
I’m still limiting to a Zambrano-like deal; he’s not in Santana’s level (at the time of Santana’s deal). Heck, Zambrano was better when he got his extension…but allow for some inflation, and Zambrano-money is as far as I’ll go.
It won’t be a rental. The Yankees would never do that deal unless they knew he would sign long term.
They aren’t in the rental business.
CC and his agents are in the money business. If the Yankees stepped up and made a deal for CC, he never hits free agency, IMO.
They will sign him long term.
Pete is right. The Yankees have the inventory to do the deal. Its just a matter of finding the right match.
trading robinson cano? are you out of your mind?
Keith Law chimed in on the CC to Boston stuff floating around, too:
“Jason (Boston): Buster suggested that the Indians are scouting the Sox minor league players in preparation for a CC trade. Any legs to this rumor?
Keith Law: No. People don’t seem to get how scouting works – teams are always scouting other teams’ systems. You read how “the Orioles had a scout in to see so-and-so play” – that’s just regular coverage. Every team has a staff of pro scouts, and those guys have assigned coverage that, in total, includes all major-league teams and typically all AAA and AA teams. Then area scouts on the amateur side will supplement this with coverage of full-season A-ball leagues and AA coverage where needed. So in all likelihood, Cleveland just had its pro scouts out doing their jobs, covering Boston’s system. ”
Funny how how everyone wants to move Kennedy. Before the season started Kennedy was projected by everyone here to be the second coming of Sandy Koufax.
im not opposed to giving up cano for him, but if we put cano in the deal, we really shouldnt put anything else in there. we need to avoid trading top prospects, especially pitching prospects for a guy w/ a 4.34 era. melky, tabata and horne = its a deal.
rebecca—
The thing that does not bother me about Arod’sdeal is that he is in the American League thus the DH is the option. Just think Barry Bonds would still be a viable DH in the AL but he just has too much baggage that Arod doesnt have so if you figure Arod would be around the same age he could still be a very productive player in the lineup just NOT at 3rd lol.
I think the Red Sox thing, while it may be true, was floated to perk the Yankees ears.
As we’ve proven lately, you can’t make the Yankees bid against others, or worse themselves, if they don’t want to.
Pete, I agree. But only with an extension.
no f way i do that trade
“Funny how how everyone wants to move Kennedy. Before the season started Kennedy was projected by everyone here to be the second coming of Sandy Koufax.”
not in my book.
Here’s another thing to consider about a CC deal.
If Boston decides to do it as a rental, they not only get the benefit of CC, they get 2 first round picks after they let him walk at the end of the season.
If I was the Yankees, there is no way I want him in Boston for a half season AND watch the Red Sox get 2 first round picks for him at the end of the year.
To me, that’s a scenario I would avoid at all costs.
Jon: “CC is younger, has a better build for a pitcher”
Sure, if pitchers are supposed to be built like sumo wrestlers.
Jon: ”(albeit he battles weight issues)”
You don’t say. Do you think hiding this fact in parenthesis makes CC any less fat?
“I think the Red Sox thing, while it may be true, was floated to perk the Yankees ears.”
agreed… it has “hey Cashman… hey Hank… over here!” written all over it.
To Rishi,
Nice find.
If anything I expect the Red Sox to be in play just to drive up the price and make sure he isn’t dealt to a rival AL team.
Keep in mind that Shapiro is a top 5 GM, look at his track record. Look at what he got for Colon, look how he got Hafner and even how he got Coco (back when he was good).
He is a smart baseball man.
I would say that Cano wouldn’t get traded. The Yankees probably wouldn’t do it because Cano’s value is at it’s lowest point. His offensive struggles in addition to the fact that they’ve signed him long term make him less tradeable than he was only a few months ago. If the Yankees were thinking of trading him – they would have signed him year to year and allowed Arbitration do it’s work.
If I were the Yankees, I would aggressively go after Sabathia. I would sign him to a long extension – but if they can’t, they get draft picks. Sure – it’s possible it won’t work out, but I’d rather roll the dice on a Sabathia than anyone else out there. We can’t let the ghosts of Pavano haunt us – or else he’ll hurt us more even after he’s gone. Sabathia will provide stability to the rotation. Even if he isn’t at an “Ace” level – he is an innings eater. Having an innings eater like him allows for the bullpen to help out the youngsters as they develop.
Your untouchable list is good – and like I said, I’d add Cano. Put together a package of two high end prospects, and two high end/low minors prospects – and get it done…
untouchables…Eliot Ness, Martin Lahart, Samuel Seager, Bernard Cloonan, Lyle Chapman, Thomas Friel, Joseph Leeson, Paul Robsky, Michael King, William Gardner, Jim Seeley Albert Wolff
I think it’s CC to the Cubs for: Felix Pie and a group of prospects
“Keep in mind that Shapiro is a top 5 GM, look at his track record. Look at what he got for Colon, look how he got Hafner and even how he got Coco (back when he was good).”
i give Shapiro credit for that trade, but at the time, Montreal was going for broke, because they didnt even know if they’d have a team/franchise after the season was over.
not saying they wouldnt have traded all that for Colon anyway, but i think you need to add that into the equation.
Whether or not the yankees decide to sign Sabathia is not directly related to his value on the free agent market.
Trading for Sabbathia is just like trading for Santana. You are trading for his time of service remaining on his current contract and the right to negotiate with him. That’s it.
In the santana case you were trading for 1 year of santana and the right to negotiate with him. In CC’s case you are trading for 3 months of Sabathia and the right to negotiate a long term deal with him.
3 months of CC and the right to negotiate with him should cost much less in talent than 1 year of Santana under contract and the right to negotiate with him. It should also cost less than trading for Texeira, Bedard, or Haren.
He may not be a rental player to the yankees but he does enter the market as a rental player. What the team that acquires him decides to do with him after his current contract is done has nothing to do with his value outside of the value of the negotiating window granted.
Nobody called Kennedy the next Sandy Koufax on this blog. Not even Kennedy’s family members would say that.
BTW, Law has a good point. I’ve seen Cleveland scouts in Charleston and Trenton this year. Its not like they are just at Red Sox minor league games.
“Whether or not the yankees decide to sign Sabathia is not directly related to his value on the free agent market.”
Sorry, meant to write trade market not free agent market.
Someone just asked a stupid question and Kobe says, “You mean I got to answer that?...(random answer) Go Yankees?”
“BTW, Law has a good point.”
while mostly snarky and sometimes very condescending, i find KLaw does a pretty good job in his evaluations; as good as just about anyone else at ESPN anyway.
“Doesn’t it make sense to be sure the Yankees are going to contend before mortgaging the future? One game above .500 doesn’t count in my book.”
Miggs, they’re only 6 games out of first and 5 games(?) out of the wildcard on June 11. They’re definitely in contention already.
Yanks won’t send a bunch if a deal isn’t agreed to, and Sabathia has closed talks till season’s end. Anyone know who his agent is??
A rotation of CC, Wang, Pettitte, Moose, Joba/Rasner is EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE for this season. With Rasner doing well, Kennedy is expendable.
Next year would be (assuming PET is gone): CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes, Rasner. And if Hughes continues his injuries, Giese is right there. I’m comfortable getting rid of a bunch of minor leaguers for CC and getting the up+up on signing him long-term.
I don’t see a trade happening for CC.
Trading for sabathia would go completley against what the Yankees have been trying to do for the past 2 years.
“They’re definitely in contention already.”
hard to believe, but absolutely. they are two good weeks from being tied at the top of the division.
then take into consideration a rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, and a reinvigorated Moose every 5 days? hard to believe there isnt a serious playoff push in there.
lol @ Hideki Balboni.
Deryck,
C.C. would have to bat? He certainly looks Ruthian.
Brian Peters of Legacy Sports….I know nothing about him.
Yankeepelotero is right, Sabathia is not much of an ace. Yes, he had a great season last year and he is doing well this year with the exception of the beginning. However, we are going to have a do a seven year contract and I know we will be screwed for the at least the last three years of the deal and I doubt he will be good enough two or three years down teh road. It is not worth giving him the contract. I got no problem with giving up some minor leaguers but to sign the guy to that contract, NO WAY!!!!
Here’s my list of untouchables ( not counting ARod,Rivera,Joba and the rest of the obvious): NOBODY
It is absurd to think that an organization that has underachieved for 5 years has anyone considered to be untouchable. You want the best lefthander in the American League? Expect to give up someone decent, never mind a overvalued projected 5th starter like Ian Kennedy.
I’m not getting the least bit excited about a trade for C C because I don’t have confidence that Brian Cashman even knows how to make this large of a trade. This isn’t like the A Rod trade. With so many teams in contention, there will be a host of teams competing for Sabathia’s services.
They should trade for CC then move him to the 8th inning to setup mariano. He throws hard and is a lefty, so that knocks out the loogy complaints as well!
LNNm3,
Yes, they are all out of their minds.
.........laughable.
Cashman isn’t, fortunately.
...The Kiss Ass part is just around the corner…late June, July.
“I’m not getting the least bit excited about a trade for C C because I don’t have confidence that Brian Cashman even knows how to make this large of a trade.”
he did a pretty good job of waiting out the Phillies at the deadline for Abreu, no?
Pete makes a good point.
In many trade scenarios, teams swap lists of players to choose from in any proposed deal.
I wonder what would happen if Cashman went “chinese” with Shapiro.
Pick 3 players from Column A, B, and C, like a chinese menu.
The Yankees do have enough inventory to give the Indians more value than they would get for those 2 first round picks they would get when lose CC.
More than anybody else? Not sure but, they do have the players to do the deal.
Whether they want to do the deal is another thing entirely.
I would only pursue a trade if we could get a deal comparable to the Mets/Twins Santana deal. I.E a grouping of our prospects that equated to what the Mets gave up, maybe something like Tabata, Horne, Marquez and Whelan but i dont think anyone but the Twins would give up young Allstar lefty for a package like that.
how old is carsten?
BTW: You people who actually think the Yankees should move Cano for C.C. – those idiots who wanted us to deal Hughes in a Satana deal have nuthin’ on you.
I’m sorry, but you are imbeciles.
And I’m not giving anybody Betances OR Tabata, either. Let the Fat Man go to Boston.
27 this year,
I agree. C.C.’s as much an ace as Wang is. Their stats are very similar ERA wise. I realize that CC is a workhorse and has the IP edge. I realize that CC has more strikeouts than Wang (who doesn’t).
That being said, C.C. would be a great addition, but I wouldn’t jump through hoops to get him.
If the Yankees didn’t see Santana as a must have, then I don’t see them looking at Sabathia as such. (Yes, I realize that Hughes/IPK change the landscape…a little).
Man, I honestly don’t see another team coming close to putting up a Cano for CC. I really don’t get how the discussion started there.
I mean, that’s like opening the bidding for Free Agent Sabathia at the end of the season at 10 years, $250M. That’s more than
anyoneis going to offer, without a doubt.You don’t do that in trade deals. Sure, if the Red Sox are willing to deal Ellsbury+Buchholz, and the Yankees
reallywant to pull the trigger, andonlya Cano deal will work, you consider that on its merits.But you absolutely do not open up with a Cano+Horne+ type package. You give up as little as you can (heck, Gomez is a nice player, but the Mets got a steal for Santana, given the deals the Twins passed up from the Yankees and Red Sox). Trade sniping his how you win, not overpaying.
“They should trade for CC then move him to the 8th inning to setup mariano. He throws hard and is a lefty, so that knocks out the loogy complaints as well!”
Jerkface,
Great minds think alike!
Draft pick mania has hit this blog…this is the New York Yankees, not Beane’s Moneyball (and nothing to show for it) A’s….Cano’s going nowhere, except the HOF as a Yankee once he snaps back into form.
Also a little bit late on this one…but wasn’t Pete Abe the one calling Matsui a spare-part and calling for him to be dealt a few months ago? Now he’s up in arms every time Girardi gives him a day off?
Simple equation…Matsui with proper rest = All-Star. Matsui under the Torre-abuse-my-vets-until-they-get-injured-or-front-office-forces-them -into-retirement plan = “spare part”.
Looking back, it is kinda hard to believe all we had to deal for Arod was Soriano. Yea, the contract was there but we only paid 17 or 18 mil a year which isnt that bad for one of the best in the game. Times have changed since then with contracts the way they are.
Jerkface,
I like it! If only to shut up Gammons and his “Hansen will be the best setup guy in the AL East”. (What happened to Oka in that convo?)
He must be signed long term, Shapiro & Cashman should talk.
“Here’s my list of untouchables ( not counting ARod,Rivera,Joba and the rest of the obvious): NOBODY
It is absurd to think that an organization that has underachieved for 5 years has anyone considered to be untouchable. You want the best lefthander in the American League? Expect to give up someone decent, never mind a overvalued projected 5th starter like Ian Kennedy.
I’m not getting the least bit excited about a trade for C C because I don’t have confidence that Brian Cashman even knows how to make this large of a trade. This isn’t like the A Rod trade. With so many teams in contention, there will be a host of teams competing for Sabathia’s services.”
Ok, how about Cano+Melky+Horne+Marquez+Tabata+Jackson?
Is that too much?
Yes, I’m being sarcastic, but man, I’d mop up the floor with you guys in fantasy baseball
you cant judge Hughes and IPK on what they’ve done in 08. maybe sabathia, in his 7th or 8th year, is starting to fade…not unheard of for a pitcher.
i say hold onto this current young talent on the big league team and let it prosper…
again if we didnt do it for Johan – why do it for Sbathia in a rental year.
Wow. I can’t believe some of the responses here. CC has never had an ERA higher than league average since his arrival in 2001 and expect this year to be no different. He is what you want to have in a front line starter. He doesn’t walk hitters and he strikes out a lot of them. He is also 27 and might be entering his peak years. If you can’t trade for CC Sabathia, well then you can’t trade for anyone. He is exactly what the Yankees have been missing. You develop prospects for moves like this. You simply can’t keep them all.
The people that are saying “if you didnt trade for Santana why would you do in for C.C” Its simple the Twins wanted Hughes/Wang plus other prospects… If you can give them your second group of prospects and still keep the guys pete listed you have to do that deal.
you gotta be kidding Cano is untuchable ! he will be one of the great power hitters in the next decade! kennedy i would trade in a blink of an eye.
is it just me or would the yankees have had to given up less for santana?
Cashman was a genius for not trading prospects for Santana (who’s pitching to a 3.04 ERA and a 1.2 whip) but he should empty the cupboard for an inferior talent who wet his pants in the post season last year and has pitched like crap, and gained weight, in his walk year? Madness.
I wouldn’t touch Sabathia with a 10 foot Twinkie and any team that gives him 7 years, 140 mil will reap a harvest of tears.
Cash dropped the ball on Santana, but what’s done is done. This team was built to sink or swim based upon what we get out of Hughes, Kennedy and Joba, and to me that hasn’t changed. Now if Bedard becomes available, all bets are off. Otherwise, we’re gonna have to play the hand we have.
“is it just me or would the yankees have had to given up less for santana?”
Agreed. Cano alone would have beaten the Mets package, or what the Red Sox were offering. And would have been overpaying, IMO.
“Now if Bedard becomes available, all bets are off. Otherwise, we’re gonna have to play the hand we have.”
Bedard?
You mean, perennial injury risk Bedard? No way, unless he’s
givenaway.Some folks here are trying too hard to rip CC Sabathia.
Sorry people but the Yankees do not possess a starter as good as CC.
Wang is a very good pitcher. He’s not as good a pitcher as CC.
CC, like Wang, has also not hit his prime.
You can be against a deal. You don’t have to overdo it with ripping a guy that, if the Yankees acquired him this year, puts them in a helluva lot better position to win this year (and in the future) than they are right now.
V, I agree with you. I wouldn’t start the bidding with Cano. That’s why I proposed the “Chinese Menu” list.
However, if it took putting Cano in the deal to get it done (while removing other guys because of Cano’s value), I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand.
Sara,
I don’t know. They folded and left the table after only one week. Either no interest or they didn’t want to be played.
By saying NOBODY except mariano, arod and joba… wouldn’t that make joba an untouchable?
I think the yankees probably agree that Jeter is untouchable.
I would rather see a trade for Fuentes or Marte at the moment right now.
What if you could keep everyone currently on the team and in the offseason sign Jon Garland and Mark Texeira?
Wouldn’t the current team plus Garland and Texeira be greater than The current team with Sabathia minus Cano?
SJ44,
I might be in the complete minority here… but throughout an entire 162 game season… I would choose Wang over CC (though its very close).
Especially considering the injury risk with such a big man.
Pete knows him, but I live very near a baseball injury expert and have discussed CC before. There is potential for some very bad/long injury possibilities with him.
Also, continue to keep an eye on Sabathia’s season this year (after all, it’s the man’s contract year). He isn’t the best lefty in the AL right now (at least Lee/Saunders/Danks are better than him this season). So that’ll temper the price I’d pay for the rest of the year + negotiation rights.
cc sabathia to the yankees is very good for the black community. Im all for it.
I’d take Wang over CC
“What if you could keep everyone currently on the team and in the offseason sign Jon Garland and Mark Texeira?”
I probably would; but I’d have to think about the final money cost to get Garland away from the west coast. Fredo put up 5 years/75 mil as a possibility (and a real possibility it is); that’ll get me to hesitate and think.
Francis,
I can’t figure out if the quota comment or the blow in the nose comment is stupider.
I don’t want anything to do with Sabathia as a free agent. $150mm to bring a guy with a history of laziness and weight issues to New York City? Add to that how badly he pitches against Boston and how badly he pitched in the playoffs. No thanks.
So I sure as hell don’t want to give up top prospects to get two months of him, especially after we didn’t deal top prospects for Santana. I include Cano (who I fully expect will wake up by the all-star break) and Betances (whose upside is bigger than Sabathia’s backside).
Again, hasn’t this team done enough already with the pitching acquisitions? We have Wang. Joba’s in our rotation now. Let’s keep developing all these other kids until we find one or two good enough fill out the rotation, and
maybeacquire a cheaper back-end guy.To win championships, you need big game pitchers, and CC is far, far from being one. Just say no, now and beyond.
Jon Garland is an Orange County guy. If he doesn’t re-sign with the Angels, its more likely he stays on the west coast with either the Dodgers or Padres.
One of the reasons why the White Sox traded him was they felt they had no chance to re-sign him in the off-season because he wanted to return to the west coast.
David Wells has a body worse than CC’s and held up. He was also a drunk. CC is not. Its not a beauty contest.
Is it a consideration? Absolutely. Should it be a dealbreaker? Not necessarily.
That’s why you scout, do backchannel work, and any other research you can to make an informed decision.
Phil Hughes has suffered more injuries in two years than CC Sabathia has suffered in his entire career.
Being able to predict with certainty the future health of players is voodoo science. You can do all the homework in the world and sometimes if luck isn’t on your side, it doesn’t work out.
Look at Ken Griffey Jr. For years, there wasn’t a better player, or conditioned athlete, in the game. The injuries hit and his entire career changed.
Why is everybody so high on Cano in this blog? Now that pitchers have figured him out his ceiling has lowered and 2B isn’t exactly a high impact position (meaning he can be replaced).
When are people going to realize that piching is what will win us a WS?
I’d take Cano off the list. You can also have either Melky or Gardner, but not both.
We also get a contract window.
Hopefully, none of this actually happens, though, and we get to have at him at the end of the year. You don’t anxiety dictate what you do. You let common sense do so.
The Yankees should take a good long look at Sabathia but I would only offer a good package nothing great since he is a free agent after this season.
However, some of you guys are nuts and don’t have a clue when talking about Tabata. He’s a great talent and he’s a kid and some of the things that have happened this season are normal and part of the growing process. Tabata has been way ahead of the curve in his development up to this point and because he’s not been awesome in AA as a 19year old people are writing him off or downplaying his talent is beyond retarded. Austin Jackson is a nice talent and he’s further along than Tabata as well as having a better season but he’s not the better talent. The Yankees will rue the day the trade Jose Tabata.
It all depends on where the Yanks are in the standings.
But if they get to the point where adding a top shelf starter is all this team needs to make the playoffs and do some damage, than you do a deal, even if it includes Cano.
Although would Cleveland want him given the contract the Yanks just gave him?
“Being able to predict with certainty the future health of players is voodoo science. You can do all the homework in the world and sometimes if luck isn’t on your side, it doesn’t work out.”
But isn’t that exactly why signing pitchers to long term deals has had such a questionable track record. and why it may not be in a team’s best interest?
You just can’t predict Mike Hampton. If you could you’d never sign him. But you pay the consequences for years when things go bad.
And with pitchers on long term deals things tend to go bad over and over and over.
To “ummmm….”:
when are you going to realize that always thinking you’re one player away is always going to mean you’re “one player away.”?
I’m willing to gamble that Cano is going to bounce back just fine. Good players have bad years.
If you could do a midseason trade for either C.C. or Teixeira which do you do?
I say Teixeira.
I’m out, but you guys need to jinx Kazmir. He’s killing the Angels. Perfect thru 4.
I think Joba is untouchable too…
Jack – I’d say Sabathia is yet to be proven. I don’t see how you can discount him as being a big game pitcher because of two bad starts against Boston.
Ummmmm…...
so you think by getting rid of a young 2B for a pitcher in CC will make us a WS champion this season? If it’s that easy, there must be a reason Cano didn’t go on the Johan deal.
And to think pitcher’s have figured out Cano, the very guy who scouts and baseball professionals say has the hands of Rod Carew, seems a bit silly to me. Cano has put himself in this mess by decreasing his pitches/AB and tried to elevate his ball a bit too much. Just my opinion
“Now that pitchers have figured him out his ceiling has lowered”
Funny – people on this board were saying the exact same thing about Cano at this time last year. That’s when there were people saying that he needed to be sent down to the minors.
Remember that? How pitchers had him completely figured out last June as well? How’d last season turn out?
BTW, Espn’s Gamecast has a new feature. If you hover over the outfield and infield, you can see the percentage of balls (I think) hit to each section by each hitter.
No, there’s not a pop foul section for A-Rod.
Well now its been 10 hours on C.C.
Change the subject for a second.
Which sports team is the worst all time in sports.
1.Clippers
2.Royals
3.Devil Rays
4.Phoenix Cardinals
5.National/Expos
6.Brewers
7.Warriors
8.Grizzlies
9.Bobcats
10.Bucks
?
the yankees are the one team that should NEVER trade premium talent for big name, small market pitchers. they so often crack under the pressure of playing here. develop them here or take a chance with free agents, but don’t trade away guys who’ve proven they can perform here for guys who haven’t.
and why would you trade cano when sabathia can be signed this winter as a free agent? that’s absurd.
Jose Tabata isn’t going to get us much right now, and Cano is definitely part of my untouchables list. And on with Dellin Bentances, I’d definitely like to keep him, because his potential is up there with Randy Johnson, but what are the chances he puts it all together and becomes a Randy Johnson? Not very likely. And he is a guy that I see as being great, or a failure, and if it means we need to give him away to get a player such as C.C. Sabathia, I say do it, because Sabathia is still young, and if we sign him after this season, we can lock him up for a long time.
“They’ll want at least one pitcher. Kennedy, Tabata and Betances. Would that get it done?”
I’m not sure if this is serious or not.
They would take a finesse righty who has been terrible this year, a troublemaker who has been sent home numerous times who has questions about his ability to drive the ball, and a pitcher not even on the Yankees preseason top 10 prospects? Who would ever trade a lefthanded cy-young winner for these three?
Throwing in Cano is just shuffling chairs. His hitting has gone down each year since his .342 rookies mark as teams realize they don’t have to throw him strikes. He was a career .278 hitter with a .750 OPS in the minor leagues (something people either forget or didn’t know), and his numbers have regressed towards those averages. I just don’t see how a team would trade Sabathia for either of those packages.
SoS: Washington Generals!
TurnTwo, most of the people here did classify Kennedy as being in the same group as Hughes and Chamberlain that nobody wanted to trade even though he was always projected to be a #4 or #5 starter at best.
I can go back and dig up all the Santana discussions where nobody wanted to trade any of the “three”. Typical overvaluing of prospects in their team’s system while they undervalue other players.
Deryck – You realize Cano is only two years younger than Sabathia, right? Don’t make it out to be like Cano is some 21 year old baby face who has years to develop and turn around. He needs to start figuring things out.
Let’s see. Slighly older left handed 1/2 vs. a streaky hitting, average feilding 2B and two mid-level legitimate prospects. It would be a steal.
“Sure, if the Red Sox are willing to deal Ellsbury+Buchholz, and the Yankees
reallywant to pull the trigger, andonlya Cano deal will work, you consider that on its merits.”Now what would make you think the Red Sox are going to trade two great players for one lousy Yankee?
CB,
It works both ways. John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Mike Mussina, Curt Schilling, all are guys who have signed long term deals in their careers and have held up over time.
Others have not.
I don’t think you can make a blanket statement that you won’t sign any pitcher to a long term deal. I think you take it on a case by case basis and also factor in your needs at the moment.
Like I said earlier, one doomsday scenario the Yankees need to avoid. The Red Sox rent CC, win again, let him go, and they get the 2 first round picks.
That’s a worst case scenario for the Yankees, IMO.
That’s something they should look to avoid if they can.
I think the Yanks should hire Keith Law.
A young Bill James, stud Stat guy, baseball operations background, talent evaluator, draft genius. Pay the guy $500k per year to work with Stick and Cash.
And presto, the Yanks have their very own Gammons.
sos…well up until this season(and their future looks bright)...the Atlanta Hawks hands down.
“Sure, if the Red Sox are willing to deal Ellsbury+Buchholz, and the Yankees
reallywant to pull the trigger, andonlya Cano deal will work, you consider that on its merits.â€Now what would make you think the Red Sox are going to trade two great players for one lousy Yankee?”
Read the statement again and then try to formulate a coherent thought.
As always SJ44 hit it right on. If it includes Cano, the Yanks will ask for a 72 hour window to sign him. No way they give Cano up and still leave open the possibility that Sabathia can walk.
cano has hit 340 and approx 310 last yr. im not sure its time to throw him in a trade.
kennedy, betences, horne, and gardner and get it done.
Come on says that it is a good thing if we lock him up for a long time, I would rather not. We can always sign him to an extension but the goal with a pitcher after arbitration and stuff is generally keep it short. We do not want to get stuck with him for a long time.
BTW, there are only two long term deals for a pitcher that worked out.
1. Pedro Martinez when the Red Sox signed him, he had seasons with ERAs under 2 and he wasn’t injured that much. After, when the mets signed him everything went downhill
2.Mike Mussina – 6 years 88.5 mil when he first signed with Yankees. Idk his numbers, but he held out over the time and I think in each of those seasons he had over 15 wins, wins aren’t the best to judge a guy but if a pitcher has wins the team is winning with him.
I’d love a pre-emptive strike on CC Sabathia. I’d never deal Cano for him though. The Yanks simply do not have any young position players of above average quality in their line-up, or the minors, and thus dealing Cano is a no-no. At-least for a pending FA it is. I understand you can trade and then sign CC, but he’s an FA in 3 months, so why trade your one All-star position player under 30 for him?
Anyhow, back to CC. I’d do it if the price were reasonable. I like the untouchable list pretty much. I think a deal that were front lined by Kennedy could work. If the Indians ask for, and insist upon Hughes, then I don’t do it. The Yanks have a ton of arms in the minors, and they all can’t get a shot with the big club, so some will have to be dealt soon. That’s partly why you develop prospects. To use them as assets, or chips, to aquire established players. Plus, as has been mentioned, trading for CC, a type A FA, will net the Yanks 2 picks, while also potentially saving their own, were they to sign CC in the offseason.
Lastly, the Sox aren’t going to trade for CC. They’re set in their rotation, and Fenway park is a right handers park.
The Wells/Sabathia comparison is a little silly. No one ever dreamed of giving Boomer a 7 year contract and if they had, he almost certainly would have eaten or drank himself to death.
If CC is undisciplned and disinterested with a huge walk year jackpot hanging in front of his nose, imagine what he’ll be like when his lifetime deal is carved in stone.
His numbers have taken a real downturn this year, but I would put an OK package together for him.
I dont get how some of you rather have Tex than CC if the Yanks dont land CC who the hell eats all those innings next year? I rather the yanks get a righty bat that can play D and hit 9th and have CC than have Tex and no pitching.
mel, stupid maybe….true, absolutely.
“TurnTwo, most of the people here did classify Kennedy as being in the same group as Hughes and Chamberlain”
None of the reasonable people did. I remember being loathe to trade him in ADDITION to a big piece like Hughes or Wang.
Trading Cano would be madness.
Not only would we be selling way way low on him, we’d also have NO replacement, either within the organization or available without for reasonable cost.
Deryck:
Cano has increased his pitches per plate appearance this year from last year. Infact, it has increased every year he has been in the league.
Seeing pitches isn’t his problem, choosing which ones to swing at is.
Sally- How exactly is Bucholz “great” Have you see his numbers this year?
http://tinyurl.com/2yq6cx
good stuff on JeffMarquez who having a terrible year @AAA
BTW, the Yankees don’t have any Left handers worth a damn, in their system. Sabathia would serve to minimize that fact.
Nobody is giving Sabathia a 7 year contract. If Santana got 5 with an incentive based option for a 6th year, CC won’t get more than Santana.
Not in years and not in money.
randy – I wouldn’t say Sabathia has been exactly undisciplined and disinterested. His last 10 starts have been Cy Young worthy, giving up only 17 in 73 innings for a 2.10 ERA with 73ks to only 14 walks. He had two ridicuously back to back starts in early April and has since been as dominate as you can expect from anybody.
Rebecca,
For some reason your comments about being a bad GM made me think of my aunt who raises beef cattle. She would make an EXCELLENT GM: She names them, raises them, bonds with them, then sends them to the slaughter house. She will show us pictures of them when they were alive and say “oh, she made me a lot of money.”
I tend to be like you, I would get too emotionally involved and wouldn’t be able to part with them either.
I have heard in the past that C.C. wants to be a Yankee and if the Yanks got deep in the playoffs I believe he would be inclined to sign with the Yanks if the money was the same as a worse team was offering for instance if the Yanks and the Texas Rangers offered the same contract obviously C.C. is a Bomber. Also Sabathia is at the very worst a great 2 if not an ACE, IPK hasnt even proved he belongs in the majors a deal anchored by him wouldn’t be terrible and throw in one of the OF’s preferably not Ajax and I think its worth it.
I would not want Robbie to go.
Melky and Ian, on the other hand, I would drive them both to the airport to Cleveland any day of the week.
Trading for CC, when we will have every chance to get him after the season, is madness. I dont see how the Indians can ask for anything but B level prospects. If we can get him for B level prospects then I’m all for it. The teams that want CC are in control here, not the Indians.
A rotation starting with C.C. Wanger and Joba seems like it could win us alot of games, also Pettitte is going to get better as the year goes on he always does and Moose has been phenomenal.
I would hate to give up Cano. As maddenning as he has been this year, I’m willing to write it off. The kid has too much talent to be this bad. It would take a trade for a top of the line lefty starter like Sabathia for me to be comfortable trading Cano.
Melky? I love Melky as much as anyone, but he’s a classic example of Yankee fans over valuing their systems players. To consider him untouchable in a trade for CC is beyond absurd. Melky’s a terrific outfielder. But there are 53 regular outfielders in the majors with a higher OPS than Melky. The names include David DeJesus,Scott Hairston and David Murphy. To hear any of those names in a trade for Sabathia and the word “steal” would be included.
Tabata? He’s only 19 years old but if he doesnt get an attitude adjustment he could wear out his welcome before he’s 21. He obviously not fully grown, but at 160 pounds he has a long way to go before he fills into the body type for a major league player. This year, you can say Tabata has been even more of a disappointment than Cano, and that’s saying a lot. Tabata’s trade value may never be higher if he doesnt change his attitude and work habits.
so Kazmir’s perfect game is over – tie score in TB
You don’t trade Cano. His arm helps us get a lot of DoublePlays and ground ball outs that aren’t tailormade, especially when Wang is pitching. I wouldn’t give up on his swing, either.
Since there will be a hefty contract involved, just put together a package of prospects, they are not all going to be able to play with the Yankees. If pushed, include Betamit also.
Real World is absolutely right.
The Red Sox are absolutely not going to trade for Sabathia.
It’s not their style. The rumor is out there to start up crazy discussions like this thread and get Yankee fans worked up into a tizzy.
I’m completely against dealing for Sabathia. He’s too much of a health risk.
I’m sorry, but I don’t trust near 300lbs pitchers to last 6-7 years in addition to the wear and tear he already has on that arm.
Pulling the trigger on so many big names and bigger contracts is exactly how this team has continued to dig themselves deeper into this hole over the years.
You’d think Yankee fans would have learned their lesson by now.
I guess not.
*rather, tie game in LA
In my view, if they can get Sabathia, they should get him. They can use a good lefty starter for years to come. And he has the ability to help the Yankees turn this season around.
But I’d be very hesitant to trade Cano. Maybe not untouchable, but very close to it. He’s a streaky player, but clearly one with a great deal of talent and a proven record of performance. A slow start this year doesn’t change that.
We too quickly fall in love with the potential of prospects, and too quickly fall out of love when their everyday performance can’t live up to our hopes.
The one thing Im petrified of is Boston getting him for even half a season that basically means game over for us in the AL East, if Boston is hot for C.C. I cough up IPK and Melky just to avoid conceding the season.
trading cano or tabata or kennedy or even betances right now would be an absolutely ridiculous move. all of them have very high ceilings, and none of them are doing well right now. Why trade when the market’s low? If you’ve given up on one or more of them, wait till he goes on a hot streak. But you simply don’t trade prospects/young players who aren’t doing well unless they have been doing poorly for such a long time that it would be reasonable to have given up on them. That is not the case here, as all of those guys have essentially had 2 bad months.
Plus, who knows – would that really be enough to get us to the playoffs? I’d rather take my chances on who we have and not risk the future for this year unless i’m guarunteeing a postseason birth and giving myself a good chance to go deep into the playoffs.
Trading Cano makes no sense for a rental. He’s a career .300+ hitter signed to a very reasonable deal for the next 4 years. The price for a rental should be prospects who are the equivalent of two first-rounders plus whatever marginal value 4 months of CC adds. If you are in contention, that’s one thing. If you are not, that’s another.
If you can sign CC and are trading Cano, you have to consider the economic difference between CC’s extended contract and Cano’s 4-year deal. That is a huge hit for the Yanks. On top of that, you subtract someone who hits well above normal for his position and you don’t have anyone ready to play second. Are we really thinking we can get to the WS with Betamit??
C.C. is a 400lb fat*** who can break down at any time.. hes going to demand at least 6 yrs in his contract.. no way do i want this guy.. no way.
not to change the subject, but i need fantasy league advice. Dan Uggla for Adrian Gonzalez?
No way do I deal Cano for anyone. 2B is a shallow position which makes Cano MORE, NOT LESS valuable.
SJ44, I respect your opinion quite a bit but I don’t think we should be making decisions based on the Sox. That’s the old George way of doing things. As others have pointed out, the Sox don’t make sense for Sabathia. If they are in, it will be just like Santana. They’ll only be in to try and drive up the price for us or prevent us from getting him.
I’d deal for Sabathia if I could sign him and the price was reasonable. That means no Cano. I’d include Kennedy and 2 other prospects not named Horne, Tabata or Jackson. If that can’t get it done, we’ll sign CC in the offseason.
Why give up so much for a guy you dont even know will sign with you when you can probably get him for nothing but $$$ in 5-6 months?
Give up the farm to rent CC for 2 months? No thank you. And yes it’ll be only 2 months…CC did not pitch well at last year’s playoff at all. People can’t have double standards and scream that Wang is not an ace b/c of his PO performance while giving CC a pass.
Cano is a star in the making even though he is a space cadet so far this season, but he has nothing but upside. I’m not sure about CC’s upside, but I do think he might be growing side ways. Someone in the previous board said David Wells was big too. I hear what you’re saying, Wells was not slim for sure, but he was nowhere as big as CC. I’m not being “weight-ist”, heck Babe Ruth was big, but he didn’t look like he was about to have a heart attack.
Honestly how would trading a few mid-level prospects for C.C. be reverting back to our old ways that was back when the farm was baron and we had no chips, now the system has lots of great prospects and also some good mid range guys not all of these young guys will turn into a stud big leaguer and if we can get a guy who has a Cy Young under his belt even for a few months its worth it.
Guiseppe Franco,
The difference is Sabathia isn’t in his 30’s like other big name players the Yankees have acquired over the years. He doesn’t turn 28 till next month.
The other thing is that the Yankees have not developed a left handed starter since Andy Pettitte in the 90’s. There are no left handers among their top pitching prospects. No successful Yankee team that I can rememeber didnt have 1 if not 2 left handers at the top of their rotation.
Sabbathia, IMO, fills a requirement that is not being met internally and he has yet to hit his prime.
Moises Alou is 50/50 for tonight’s game, he’s taking an MRI
who had the under ?
“C.C. is a 400lb fat*** who can break down at any time.. hes going to demand at least 6 yrs in his contract.. no way do i want this guy.. no way.”
Josh must not watch alot of baseball his talent is through the roof and sure hes a risk every pitcher is a risk Joba is a risk hes a big dude too but some time the talent is worth taking a shot on I love a bull of a pitcher a guy who can throw CG’s in this ERA that is more attractive than a less risky guy who only can go 5-6 innings with alright stuff. PS I believe C.C. is 290 and he’s also 6’7 hes a mountain of a man not just fat.
could you imagine if the yankees could get russel martin and carsten? a black pitcher throwing to a black catcher….that would be amazing for the black community.
Clearly I have a thing for black baseball players, but my bias aside, that would be sweet.
Kennedy, Cabrera, and Duncan. If they throw in someone else, I’d maybe throw in Tabata. Let Brett Gardner play center.
what did alou get bit by a mosquito last night causing a torn ligament?
“Pete makes a good point.”
Hey SJ44, are you trying to suck up to Pete? I know he’s our sweet host and all, but didn’t you just write 2 days ago about how bringing CC in would be a horrible idea and you thought he looked like he was about to pass out pitching in the heat over the weekend?
Or are you saying Pete made a good point about something else?
Dee,
I agree that the 241 inings he pitched last year seemed to have worn Sabbathia down. However, he certainly didnt pitch any worse than CM Wang and I will gladly take Wang on my staff anytime.
I think that unless Cleveland ( his first choice) made him an overwhelming offer, he would be amendable to signing with the Yankees at the end of the year.
CC = Charleston Chew, because he’s about 3 candy bars from 350 lbs.
C’mon guys….
Sabathia is freaking 300 lbs!!!
Does anyone really think this guy’s body is going to hold up well into his mid-30s?
I also cannot stress enough the wear and tear he already has on his arm.
Cashman isn’t trading for Sabathia. And I’d be surprised if he signs him during the offseason.
The Red Sox aren’t trading for him. Even if they do – so what?
The Yanks shouldn’t dictate what they do because of Boston. That’s how the Bombers got Kei Igawa as a response to RSN signing Matsuzaka.
What is wrong with some of you people? First, the deal won’t go through if CC doesn’t sign a contract with us. Second, it will not be for more than five years. Third, we can bring up Alberto Gonzalez to play second, which would not be a huge dropoff this year the way Cano’s been playing (at 25 years old already). Fourth, if he gets traded, he won’t be available for “just draft picks” at the end of the season, he’ll sign with whoever trades for him. Finally, if we trade for him now, we can sign Tex (a Boras client and sure-fire bet to make it to FA) in the offseason without any limits on the numbers of Type A’s we can sign getting in the way.
Huh? I never said he looked like he was going to pass out from the heat. Perhaps an impersonator wrote that. I sure didn’t.
I am not sucking up to Pete. I thought his idea about producing a pick’em list was a good one.
CC is 27, starting from next year, 5 years brings him through his 33rd birthday. That’s not that old.
One thing about CMW, he is not exactly the dominating ace you look for as an ace. But, on the other hand, he is better than a #2. Basically, I would love to see an ace with him and that would give us a great 1 2 punch and Joba hopefully will develop into the best 3 adn then hopefully, (hopefully because I want him to be the best) be better than Wang
“It’s really about how you want to manage risk and uncertainty.â€
cb-
you had said something a little while ago about how you trusted probability with the numbers of yankees pitching prospects that were being developed and drafted.
i’m in agreement with that because you never know what is going to happen to any one pitcher.
things can happen with an everyday player like arod or jeter, but when they are at the point of free agency, you have a high probability that they are going to play most of the years.
with any free agent pitcher who wants a long contract, you don’t have the same certainty or probability that they will pitch most of the contract.
with a minor league pitcher like hughes or even joba, if they get injured the team is out about 3-5 million and no permanent fiscal damage is done.
it’d be unfortunate, but it’s not an albatross around the neck of the team for years to come.
I’m heading to my first game at Shea this year tonight and probably last one ever. Call me optimistic but thought I would check out our potential WS rival. Also I’ve never seen Brandon Webb pitch so thought I’d see in person what the 11-2 big hoopla is all about. Plus I’ll probably get home in time to watch the Yankee game, not a bad deal:-)
Go Rasner!!
“Josh must not watch alot of baseball his talent is through the roof and sure hes a risk every pitcher is a risk Joba is a risk hes a big dude too but some time the talent is worth taking a shot on I love a bull of a pitcher a guy who can throw CG’s in this ERA that is more attractive than a less risky guy who only can go 5-6 innings with alright stuff. PS I believe C.C. is 290 and he’s also 6′7 hes a mountain of a man not just fat.”
I watch more than you obviously to know that he is going to demand an enormous contract which have proven time and time again to be disasters for pitchers.. that hes a whale of a man makes it even worse.
think what you want, by all means, but youre wrong. and comparing him to joba is comical.. joba isnt demanding any mega contracts yet
Peter Gammons: the Braves might be willing sell Teixeira for SP depth
Well now you know he’s not coming to NY.
Why would they do this? They already gave up the season to make Joba a starter. It’s going to take alot more than CC Sabathia (cy or not he is a little overrated) to even make the postseason.
Not to mention, They’re going to look like idiots if they offer a package similar to the Santana deal to the Indians.
“joba isnt demanding any mega contracts yet”
Um, he can’t yet.
SJ yeah thought I’d ask, coz it’s not like you to contradict yourself. Online impersonators are so lame!
I love how a lot of you people read on ESPN or somewhere else that all long term contracts for pitchers are bad, so now you just regurgitate that dogma constantly. Bottom line is it depends on the guy, some guys are worth it. Clemens from 99-03 worked out pretty well. That’s five years and he was 40 by the end.
Yeah CC needs to lose 100 pounds and be 6 foot 7 inches tall and weigh 165 pounds….thats a good look.
you people are crazy. CC Sabathia is a large man, thats all. He doesnt need to lose weight.
Gammons also saids Cleveland is not trading Sabathia, they’d rather take the 2 draft picks, then take a under value deal. They want an ala Bartolo Colon to Montreal type deal and they don’t believe they will get that.
Dodgers putting Nomar at SS, they don’t believe Furcal will be back for a long while, they are in the market for a SS.
Hey we have a SS his name is Alberto Gonzalez would we trade him for Kou ?
“Gammons also saids Cleveland is not trading Sabathia, they’d rather take the 2 draft picks, then take a under value deal. They want an ala Bartolo Colon to Montreal type deal and they don’t believe they will get that.”
So, that means he’ll be traded.
Everybody is hating on C.C. because hes having a bad year but if he was on the Yanks he would be the best pitcher except Moose which is an aberration, If C.C. was 10-2 with a 2.50 and 100 K’s everyone in this room would want him and who cares if hes a heavy guy so was boomer wells and he was great into his late 30’s.
“Alberto Gonzalez to play second, which would not be a huge dropoff this year the way Cano’s been playing (at 25 years old already).”
A comment like this is sheer lunacy. :\
Alberto Gonzalez … not a huge dropoff … from Robinson Cano? Who competed for the batting title last year despite his first two months of the season not being very different from his first two months this season?
Think of it this way…
Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, and Bobby Abreu have been called “old and slow” on many occasions over the last 14 months.
These guys are 33 and 34 years old and in a heckuva lot better physical shape than a 300lbs Sabathia will be at that age.
He’s not going to be a durable pitcher over the course of a 5-6 year deal. His body is enormous and his arm has a ton of miles on it.
I wouldn’t touch him.
Gammons: “The toughest strike to get called is the third strike by a road pitcher at Fenway Park”.
Gee, ‘ya don’t say? Its something some of us have known for years! lol
All you Weight Watchers fanatics, chew on this:
CC was at 97 in the 9th inning of a complete game 1-0 win last night.
I’ll take the “fat man” on my pitching staff if the price is right.
Its not like the Yankees are loaded with guys that can do what he can do.
It probably won’t happen but, if it did, it wouldn’t be a rental deal.
If the Yankees ever decided to jump into the sweepstakes, they would make sure they signed him long term.
“Yeah CC needs to lose 100 pounds and be 6 foot 7 inches tall and weigh 165 pounds….thats a good look.”
CC is not 6’7” 265 pounds. He’s more like 6’5” 310 pounds. So if he loses 100, yes in fact he will look much better:-)
Look at him, and look at Joba. Joba is thick and athletic. CC is fat and sloppy. There IS a difference!
“So, that means he’ll be traded.”
No it means they’ll take the 2 draft picks for next year’s draft while letting CC walk.
wtf? Isn’t Pete always going on about how the Yankees should go with the youth movement and not go after CC?
“Um, he can’t yet.”
gosh youre smart, way to take it literally
SJ,
What if Sabathia were only available as a rental? Would you still try to trade for him? I think either way (rental or long term) the Yankees would consider it but the package for long term vs rental would be vastly different.
The beauty of CC’s numbers is that he might come a little cheaper.
Look at him, and look at Joba. Joba is thick and athletic. CC is fat and sloppy. There IS a difference!
CC is not fat he is big boned !
“Alberto Gonzalez … not a huge dropoff … from Robinson Cano? Who competed for the batting title last year despite his first two months of the season not being very different from his first two months this season?”
Competed for the batting title? He hit barely over 300, Ordonez hit 363, I guess we have a much different definition of competing. Anyway, what I said was that Cano is not producing much this year and not showing signs of improvement. He did not have a first two months that were this bad last year either. I don’t know who your fact-checker is, but fire him.
“No it means they’ll take the 2 draft picks for next year’s draft while letting CC walk.”
My remark was more on Gammons reliability then anything. When was the last time he got anything right. If you want to believe the guy that said Hansen is the best set up man, be my guest.
Bad news- Cox going on DL for Scranton- guess that pushes Robertson up on the “next to be called up” list. Source- Chad Jennigns/ RiverAveBlues.
As I said in an earlier thread, its insanity to THINK about trading Cano. At 25 years old, there is no other position player in the organization with as much talent and upside as Cano – plain and simple.
Many of you are suggesting that Cano would be the “centerpiece” of any deal – so do all the other GMs around the League.
An everyday player like Cano, with his long term upside, will be far more valuable than CC will be. Cashman has gone overboard drafting young arms and has little position player candidates in the Organization that can match Robbie’s talent and potential. Don’t give up on him for having a below- par 60 Games! Sheesh!
He’s so not worth it, especially if they don’t sign him along with it, and why would they sign him if they weren’t willing to sign Johan Santana?