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What’s the deal with Sabathia?

Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 11, 2008 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Lots of talk around baseball that Cleveland will trade C.C. Sabathia during the season rather than letting him walk as a free agent. The idea is that the Indians would rather get two or three prospects now than two draft picks next June.

It makes sense, especially if the Indians continue to fade in the Central.

Would the Yankees be smart to try and pick him up knowing he will almost certainly become a free agent once the season is over?

They have the inventory (as Brian Cashman likes to call it) to make a deal. At this point, who is untouchable in their system?

This would be my untouchable list: Austin Jackson, Jesus Montero, Phil Hughes, Andrew Brackman and Mark Melancon

Other than that, have at ‘em.

That includes Jose Tabata, Brett Gardner, Robinson Cano, Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne, Dellin Betances, Jose Veras, etc.

Remember, this is C.C. Sabathia we’re talking about. The Indians aren’t taking Shelley Duncan and Scott Patterson for the Cy Young Award winner.

They’ll want at least one pitcher. Kennedy, Tabata and Betances. Would that get it done?

Tabata, Betances and Cano. Would you do that? Or do you stay away entirely?

Keep in mind: Whoever trades for Sabathia gets the draft picks when he walks. He’d be a rental but it’s not a total loss if he walks.

Comments

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429 Responses to “What’s the deal with Sabathia?”

  1. Tint June 11th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Sabathia is sooooo not gonna get traded this year.

  2. Patrick Bateman June 11th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    I’m with you on this Peter except for Cano.

    I don’t mind moving Cano, but I want him moved for top notch outfield or 1B prospects. Not CC Sabathia.

    The rest of the players you mention I have no problem moving in a Sabathia trade. With Pettitte and Mussina leaving next year, we need a vet for the rotation. A lefty workhorse like Sabathia is even better since we have no lefties in the system besides that guy from Stanford that was just drafted.

  3. TurnTwo June 11th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    ha! sorry, Pete. you’re about 7.5 hrs too late on this one…

  4. Peyton Horton June 11th, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Would not even think about doing it, if you dont make a move for johan you dont for CC

  5. Anthony A June 11th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Nothing involving cano please. He might be struggling now but he’s still going to be a superstar!!

  6. Christine June 11th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Speaking as a girl and fan of the Yankees, I just do not see trading away Cano. He may not be having his best season, but he is very valuable.

  7. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 11th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    Kennedy, Tabata and Betances Maybe.

    Kennedy,Tabata and Cano, no.

    I would make a horrible GM. I get too emotionally invested in players.

  8. John in Ohio June 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    Giving up on Cano, eh Pete?

    He would have been an untouchable in March.

  9. mel June 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    Pete,

    You’re assuming no window for an extension?

    No to that. You don’t give up talent for a rental.

    If you’re talking extension, I add Cano to the untouchable list. For now. Subject to change.

  10. Patrick Bateman June 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    A trade midseason might also be beneficial for the Yankees since they’d be able to retain their first round pick in the draft next season. If they sign him next year in the off season they’d lose their first rounder.

    Not that I’d let that from keeping me from signing Sabathia, but this might be a good opportunity to move some of our junk out like Kennedy.

  11. 2008 Yankees June 11th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    I hate RENT A PLAYERS because the Yankees usually get raped on the deal. But I believe Cleveland GAVE us David Justice years ago and that helped to win the World Series. Depending who they want, it might not be a BAD gamble, especially if they get another first round pick if Sabathia decides to go FA.

  12. Peter Abraham June 11th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    Turn two: I’m in Cali. I’m only 4.5 hours late

  13. mel June 11th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    Turn Two,

    Pete’s so Old Mutual.

  14. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Melky, Kennedy, Tabata, Betances for CC and Grady,

  15. Russell NY June 11th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    The Yanks would be able to get a deal done before the end of the season I believe if the price is right and they get CC in a trade.

  16. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    Pete,

    Read the other thread. This was discussed heavily.

    BTW, I agree with you. If CC is out there, you have to look to do the deal.

    If you include Cano, it lessens the hit you take to the farm system. If Cano isn’t in the deal, they will have to load up on prospects.

    I think your list of untouchables is accurate. Those would be on my list.

    Either way, if he is out there, its a deal you have to look to do, IMO.

    It won’t be a rental. If they get him, they will sign him.

  17. Patrick Bateman June 11th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    “Melky, Kennedy, Tabata, Betances for CC and Grady,”

    Lay off the drugs. They aren’t trading Sizemore. Especially with the cheap deal he’s got.

  18. Russell NY June 11th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Kennedy, Tabata and Betances.

    I’d do that in a heart beat. Kennedy has to pitch a little better first.

  19. miggs June 11th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Doesn’t it make sense to be sure the Yankees are going to contend before mortgaging the future? One game above .500 doesn’t count in my book.

    Why rent a guy for 2 months if you aren’t going to make the postseason?

    The only way that makes sense is if the Yankees tie him up to a long-term deal prior to the trade.

  20. TurnTwo June 11th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    fair point, Pete! we did a pretty good job of debating Cano in the other thread, but you’ve pulled in some other names into the equation, so it does open it up for a second round of discussion.

    Kennedy, Tabata, and another player is a reasonable starting point to get it done, with no extention window.

    get the extention window, and i think you include Cano in the conversation.

  21. Russell NY June 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    Melky, Kennedy, Tabata, Betances, AND CANO for CC, Grady, and that B guy 2nd baseman.

  22. Jerkface June 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    You don’t trade top prospects for a half year rental then let him walk. You trade those guys and extend the sucker!

  23. mel June 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    2008 Yankees,

    Can you use another verb to make your point?

  24. Dave June 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    I highly doubt the Indians would be interested in Jose Tabata what with all of his charatcer issues this year and his inability to find his power.

    Isn’t Betances hurt? Isn’t Melky too average? I could see Cano as the centerpiece.

    —————

    There were reports that the Indians have been scouting the Red Sox minor league system and to quote Stark, “were all over the Red Sox system.”

    I like the Dodgers to be in play as well, they have so much talent it isn’t even funny.

  25. stuart June 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    2008 Yankees Yeah Justice was the missing piece.

    the 2008 Yankees have numerous missing pieces such as; 1 stud starter, 2 reliable pen arms, a 1B option who can field a hit ball, and speed on the bench.. Besides those 4 or 5 players they are set up to win it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  26. TurnTwo June 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    “I’d do that in a heart beat. Kennedy has to pitch a little better first.”

    thats why when healthy, you stick him down in Scranton, and let him build his value back up.

  27. Jon June 11th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

    The argument of why CC if we didnt go for Johan is completely baseless.

    CC is younger, has a better build for a pitcher(albeit he battles weight issues) and his number arent dipping(johan’s has) with the exception of CC’s first few starts.

    If they can CC without touching thier untouchable list you have to do it. A rotation with CC and Wang would save your bullpen a lot of workload.

  28. Yankeepelotero June 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Sabathia is not worth trading Cano for. The others, i can trade them for Sabathia but not Cano. I think CC has too many miles on that arm and last year was his career year and won’t get any better than that. He’s had 3 sub 4.00 ERA seasons in his 8 season career. That’s not much of an ace in my book. We can go by last season, but last season is an aberration compared to his other seasons. I wouldn’t give up Cano for him. not in a million years!

  29. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    I know I’m in the minority here, but I’d still wait on pulling the trigger on Canò. I mean, if his numbers are like this at the end of the season, that’s one thing, ut he is more of a second half guy.

    That’s not saying I’m not worried about him; I am, but I’m not quite sure I trade him just yet.

    Also, CC, while not old, is also not that young. If the Yanks were to give him a three year deal, that’s one thing, but the Yanks have a habit of doing the long term contracts.

    Still not a fan of A-Rod’s contract. Yes, I like A-Rod, but 10 years is a hella long time and that’s assuming everything goes to plan. But that’s another topic for another day.

  30. CharlesSDutton June 11th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Tabata, IPK, and John Sterling

  31. Mike June 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    I think it’s far more likely he goes elsewhere. Maybe the Cubs. Maybe Boston..

  32. Blargh June 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    Hell no to a mere rental
    If I were to complete a trade for him, he’s getting locked up

    So the sticking point is more the contract (as discussed in the previous thread)
    I’m still limiting to a Zambrano-like deal; he’s not in Santana’s level (at the time of Santana’s deal). Heck, Zambrano was better when he got his extension…but allow for some inflation, and Zambrano-money is as far as I’ll go.

  33. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    It won’t be a rental. The Yankees would never do that deal unless they knew he would sign long term.

    They aren’t in the rental business.

    CC and his agents are in the money business. If the Yankees stepped up and made a deal for CC, he never hits free agency, IMO.

    They will sign him long term.

    Pete is right. The Yankees have the inventory to do the deal. Its just a matter of finding the right match.

  34. LNNm3 June 11th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    trading robinson cano? are you out of your mind?

  35. Rishi June 11th, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Keith Law chimed in on the CC to Boston stuff floating around, too:

    “Jason (Boston): Buster suggested that the Indians are scouting the Sox minor league players in preparation for a CC trade. Any legs to this rumor?

    Keith Law: No. People don’t seem to get how scouting works – teams are always scouting other teams’ systems. You read how “the Orioles had a scout in to see so-and-so play” – that’s just regular coverage. Every team has a staff of pro scouts, and those guys have assigned coverage that, in total, includes all major-league teams and typically all AAA and AA teams. Then area scouts on the amateur side will supplement this with coverage of full-season A-ball leagues and AA coverage where needed. So in all likelihood, Cleveland just had its pro scouts out doing their jobs, covering Boston’s system. “

  36. Patrick Bateman June 11th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    Funny how how everyone wants to move Kennedy. Before the season started Kennedy was projected by everyone here to be the second coming of Sandy Koufax.

  37. michael June 11th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    im not opposed to giving up cano for him, but if we put cano in the deal, we really shouldnt put anything else in there. we need to avoid trading top prospects, especially pitching prospects for a guy w/ a 4.34 era. melky, tabata and horne = its a deal.

  38. gayle June 11th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    rebecca–

    The thing that does not bother me about Arod’sdeal is that he is in the American League thus the DH is the option. Just think Barry Bonds would still be a viable DH in the AL but he just has too much baggage that Arod doesnt have so if you figure Arod would be around the same age he could still be a very productive player in the lineup just NOT at 3rd lol.

  39. mel June 11th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

    I think the Red Sox thing, while it may be true, was floated to perk the Yankees ears.

    As we’ve proven lately, you can’t make the Yankees bid against others, or worse themselves, if they don’t want to.

  40. RSM June 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    Pete, I agree. But only with an extension.

  41. baka June 11th, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    no f way i do that trade

  42. TurnTwo June 11th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    “Funny how how everyone wants to move Kennedy. Before the season started Kennedy was projected by everyone here to be the second coming of Sandy Koufax.”

    not in my book.

  43. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    Here’s another thing to consider about a CC deal.

    If Boston decides to do it as a rental, they not only get the benefit of CC, they get 2 first round picks after they let him walk at the end of the season.

    If I was the Yankees, there is no way I want him in Boston for a half season AND watch the Red Sox get 2 first round picks for him at the end of the year.

    To me, that’s a scenario I would avoid at all costs.

  44. Hideki Balboni June 11th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    Jon: “CC is younger, has a better build for a pitcher”

    Sure, if pitchers are supposed to be built like sumo wrestlers.

    Jon: “(albeit he battles weight issues)”

    You don’t say. Do you think hiding this fact in parenthesis makes CC any less fat?

  45. TurnTwo June 11th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

    “I think the Red Sox thing, while it may be true, was floated to perk the Yankees ears.”

    agreed… it has “hey Cashman… hey Hank… over here!” written all over it.

  46. Dave June 11th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    To Rishi,

    Nice find.

    If anything I expect the Red Sox to be in play just to drive up the price and make sure he isn’t dealt to a rival AL team.

    Keep in mind that Shapiro is a top 5 GM, look at his track record. Look at what he got for Colon, look how he got Hafner and even how he got Coco (back when he was good).

    He is a smart baseball man.

  47. GS June 11th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    I would say that Cano wouldn’t get traded. The Yankees probably wouldn’t do it because Cano’s value is at it’s lowest point. His offensive struggles in addition to the fact that they’ve signed him long term make him less tradeable than he was only a few months ago. If the Yankees were thinking of trading him – they would have signed him year to year and allowed Arbitration do it’s work.

    If I were the Yankees, I would aggressively go after Sabathia. I would sign him to a long extension – but if they can’t, they get draft picks. Sure – it’s possible it won’t work out, but I’d rather roll the dice on a Sabathia than anyone else out there. We can’t let the ghosts of Pavano haunt us – or else he’ll hurt us more even after he’s gone. Sabathia will provide stability to the rotation. Even if he isn’t at an “Ace” level – he is an innings eater. Having an innings eater like him allows for the bullpen to help out the youngsters as they develop.

    Your untouchable list is good – and like I said, I’d add Cano. Put together a package of two high end prospects, and two high end/low minors prospects – and get it done…

  48. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    untouchables…Eliot Ness, Martin Lahart, Samuel Seager, Bernard Cloonan, Lyle Chapman, Thomas Friel, Joseph Leeson, Paul Robsky, Michael King, William Gardner, Jim Seeley Albert Wolff

  49. Deryck June 11th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    I think it’s CC to the Cubs for: Felix Pie and a group of prospects

  50. TurnTwo June 11th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    “Keep in mind that Shapiro is a top 5 GM, look at his track record. Look at what he got for Colon, look how he got Hafner and even how he got Coco (back when he was good).”

    i give Shapiro credit for that trade, but at the time, Montreal was going for broke, because they didnt even know if they’d have a team/franchise after the season was over.

    not saying they wouldnt have traded all that for Colon anyway, but i think you need to add that into the equation.

  51. CB June 11th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Whether or not the yankees decide to sign Sabathia is not directly related to his value on the free agent market.

    Trading for Sabbathia is just like trading for Santana. You are trading for his time of service remaining on his current contract and the right to negotiate with him. That’s it.

    In the santana case you were trading for 1 year of santana and the right to negotiate with him. In CC’s case you are trading for 3 months of Sabathia and the right to negotiate a long term deal with him.

    3 months of CC and the right to negotiate with him should cost much less in talent than 1 year of Santana under contract and the right to negotiate with him. It should also cost less than trading for Texeira, Bedard, or Haren.

    He may not be a rental player to the yankees but he does enter the market as a rental player. What the team that acquires him decides to do with him after his current contract is done has nothing to do with his value outside of the value of the negotiating window granted.

  52. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Nobody called Kennedy the next Sandy Koufax on this blog. Not even Kennedy’s family members would say that.

    BTW, Law has a good point. I’ve seen Cleveland scouts in Charleston and Trenton this year. Its not like they are just at Red Sox minor league games.

  53. CB June 11th, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    “Whether or not the yankees decide to sign Sabathia is not directly related to his value on the free agent market.”

    Sorry, meant to write trade market not free agent market.

  54. mel June 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Someone just asked a stupid question and Kobe says, “You mean I got to answer that?…(random answer) Go Yankees?”

  55. TurnTwo June 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    “BTW, Law has a good point.”

    while mostly snarky and sometimes very condescending, i find KLaw does a pretty good job in his evaluations; as good as just about anyone else at ESPN anyway.

  56. raymagnetic ®™ June 11th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    “Doesn’t it make sense to be sure the Yankees are going to contend before mortgaging the future? One game above .500 doesn’t count in my book.”

    Miggs, they’re only 6 games out of first and 5 games(?) out of the wildcard on June 11. They’re definitely in contention already.

  57. John in Ohio June 11th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    Yanks won’t send a bunch if a deal isn’t agreed to, and Sabathia has closed talks till season’s end. Anyone know who his agent is??

  58. Russell NY June 11th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    A rotation of CC, Wang, Pettitte, Moose, Joba/Rasner is EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE for this season. With Rasner doing well, Kennedy is expendable.

    Next year would be (assuming PET is gone): CC, Wang, Joba, Hughes, Rasner. And if Hughes continues his injuries, Giese is right there. I’m comfortable getting rid of a bunch of minor leaguers for CC and getting the up+up on signing him long-term.

  59. bphill June 11th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    I don’t see a trade happening for CC.

    Trading for sabathia would go completley against what the Yankees have been trying to do for the past 2 years.

  60. TurnTwo June 11th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    “They’re definitely in contention already.”

    hard to believe, but absolutely. they are two good weeks from being tied at the top of the division.

    then take into consideration a rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, and a reinvigorated Moose every 5 days? hard to believe there isnt a serious playoff push in there.

  61. mel June 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    lol @ Hideki Balboni.

    Deryck,

    C.C. would have to bat? He certainly looks Ruthian.

  62. John in Ohio June 11th, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Brian Peters of Legacy Sports….I know nothing about him.

  63. 27 this year June 11th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Yankeepelotero is right, Sabathia is not much of an ace. Yes, he had a great season last year and he is doing well this year with the exception of the beginning. However, we are going to have a do a seven year contract and I know we will be screwed for the at least the last three years of the deal and I doubt he will be good enough two or three years down teh road. It is not worth giving him the contract. I got no problem with giving up some minor leaguers but to sign the guy to that contract, NO WAY!!!!

  64. Drive 4-5 June 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    Here’s my list of untouchables ( not counting ARod,Rivera,Joba and the rest of the obvious): NOBODY

    It is absurd to think that an organization that has underachieved for 5 years has anyone considered to be untouchable. You want the best lefthander in the American League? Expect to give up someone decent, never mind a overvalued projected 5th starter like Ian Kennedy.

    I’m not getting the least bit excited about a trade for C C because I don’t have confidence that Brian Cashman even knows how to make this large of a trade. This isn’t like the A Rod trade. With so many teams in contention, there will be a host of teams competing for Sabathia’s services.

  65. Jerkface June 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    They should trade for CC then move him to the 8th inning to setup mariano. He throws hard and is a lefty, so that knocks out the loogy complaints as well!

  66. bodhisattva June 11th, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    LNNm3,

    Yes, they are all out of their minds.
    ………laughable.

    Cashman isn’t, fortunately.

    …The Kiss Ass part is just around the corner…late June, July.

  67. TurnTwo June 11th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    “I’m not getting the least bit excited about a trade for C C because I don’t have confidence that Brian Cashman even knows how to make this large of a trade.”

    he did a pretty good job of waiting out the Phillies at the deadline for Abreu, no?

  68. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    Pete makes a good point.

    In many trade scenarios, teams swap lists of players to choose from in any proposed deal.

    I wonder what would happen if Cashman went “chinese” with Shapiro.

    Pick 3 players from Column A, B, and C, like a chinese menu.

    The Yankees do have enough inventory to give the Indians more value than they would get for those 2 first round picks they would get when lose CC.

    More than anybody else? Not sure but, they do have the players to do the deal.

    Whether they want to do the deal is another thing entirely.

  69. Velocity June 11th, 2008 at 3:57 pm

    I would only pursue a trade if we could get a deal comparable to the Mets/Twins Santana deal. I.E a grouping of our prospects that equated to what the Mets gave up, maybe something like Tabata, Horne, Marquez and Whelan but i dont think anyone but the Twins would give up young Allstar lefty for a package like that.

  70. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    how old is carsten?

  71. bodhisattva June 11th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    BTW: You people who actually think the Yankees should move Cano for C.C. – those idiots who wanted us to deal Hughes in a Satana deal have nuthin’ on you.

    I’m sorry, but you are imbeciles.

    And I’m not giving anybody Betances OR Tabata, either. Let the Fat Man go to Boston.

  72. mel June 11th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    27 this year,

    I agree. C.C.’s as much an ace as Wang is. Their stats are very similar ERA wise. I realize that CC is a workhorse and has the IP edge. I realize that CC has more strikeouts than Wang (who doesn’t).

    That being said, C.C. would be a great addition, but I wouldn’t jump through hoops to get him.

    If the Yankees didn’t see Santana as a must have, then I don’t see them looking at Sabathia as such. (Yes, I realize that Hughes/IPK change the landscape…a little).

  73. V June 11th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    Man, I honestly don’t see another team coming close to putting up a Cano for CC. I really don’t get how the discussion started there.

    I mean, that’s like opening the bidding for Free Agent Sabathia at the end of the season at 10 years, $250M. That’s more than -anyone- is going to offer, without a doubt.

    You don’t do that in trade deals. Sure, if the Red Sox are willing to deal Ellsbury+Buchholz, and the Yankees -really- want to pull the trigger, and -only- a Cano deal will work, you consider that on its merits.

    But you absolutely do not open up with a Cano+Horne+ type package. You give up as little as you can (heck, Gomez is a nice player, but the Mets got a steal for Santana, given the deals the Twins passed up from the Yankees and Red Sox). Trade sniping his how you win, not overpaying.

  74. raymagnetic ®™ June 11th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    “They should trade for CC then move him to the 8th inning to setup mariano. He throws hard and is a lefty, so that knocks out the loogy complaints as well!”

    Jerkface,

    Great minds think alike!

  75. Bronx Bomber June 11th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    Draft pick mania has hit this blog…this is the New York Yankees, not Beane’s Moneyball (and nothing to show for it) A’s….Cano’s going nowhere, except the HOF as a Yankee once he snaps back into form.

    Also a little bit late on this one…but wasn’t Pete Abe the one calling Matsui a spare-part and calling for him to be dealt a few months ago? Now he’s up in arms every time Girardi gives him a day off?

    Simple equation…Matsui with proper rest = All-Star. Matsui under the Torre-abuse-my-vets-until-they-get-injured-or-front-office-forces-them -into-retirement plan = “spare part”.

  76. 27 this year June 11th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    Looking back, it is kinda hard to believe all we had to deal for Arod was Soriano. Yea, the contract was there but we only paid 17 or 18 mil a year which isnt that bad for one of the best in the game. Times have changed since then with contracts the way they are.

  77. mel June 11th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    Jerkface,

    I like it! If only to shut up Gammons and his “Hansen will be the best setup guy in the AL East”. (What happened to Oka in that convo?)

  78. Bob June 11th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    He must be signed long term, Shapiro & Cashman should talk.

  79. V June 11th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

    “Here’s my list of untouchables ( not counting ARod,Rivera,Joba and the rest of the obvious): NOBODY

    It is absurd to think that an organization that has underachieved for 5 years has anyone considered to be untouchable. You want the best lefthander in the American League? Expect to give up someone decent, never mind a overvalued projected 5th starter like Ian Kennedy.

    I’m not getting the least bit excited about a trade for C C because I don’t have confidence that Brian Cashman even knows how to make this large of a trade. This isn’t like the A Rod trade. With so many teams in contention, there will be a host of teams competing for Sabathia’s services.”

    Ok, how about Cano+Melky+Horne+Marquez+Tabata+Jackson?

    Is that too much?

    Yes, I’m being sarcastic, but man, I’d mop up the floor with you guys in fantasy baseball ;-)

  80. mark June 11th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    you cant judge Hughes and IPK on what they’ve done in 08. maybe sabathia, in his 7th or 8th year, is starting to fade…not unheard of for a pitcher.
    i say hold onto this current young talent on the big league team and let it prosper…
    again if we didnt do it for Johan – why do it for Sbathia in a rental year.

  81. Dave June 11th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

    Wow. I can’t believe some of the responses here. CC has never had an ERA higher than league average since his arrival in 2001 and expect this year to be no different. He is what you want to have in a front line starter. He doesn’t walk hitters and he strikes out a lot of them. He is also 27 and might be entering his peak years. If you can’t trade for CC Sabathia, well then you can’t trade for anyone. He is exactly what the Yankees have been missing. You develop prospects for moves like this. You simply can’t keep them all.

  82. Igawa's buck teeth (Free Brett Campaign) June 11th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    The people that are saying “if you didnt trade for Santana why would you do in for C.C” Its simple the Twins wanted Hughes/Wang plus other prospects… If you can give them your second group of prospects and still keep the guys pete listed you have to do that deal.

  83. al arodien June 11th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    you gotta be kidding Cano is untuchable ! he will be one of the great power hitters in the next decade! kennedy i would trade in a blink of an eye.

  84. Sara June 11th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

    is it just me or would the yankees have had to given up less for santana?

  85. randyhater June 11th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    Cashman was a genius for not trading prospects for Santana (who’s pitching to a 3.04 ERA and a 1.2 whip) but he should empty the cupboard for an inferior talent who wet his pants in the post season last year and has pitched like crap, and gained weight, in his walk year? Madness.

    I wouldn’t touch Sabathia with a 10 foot Twinkie and any team that gives him 7 years, 140 mil will reap a harvest of tears.

    Cash dropped the ball on Santana, but what’s done is done. This team was built to sink or swim based upon what we get out of Hughes, Kennedy and Joba, and to me that hasn’t changed. Now if Bedard becomes available, all bets are off. Otherwise, we’re gonna have to play the hand we have.

  86. V June 11th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

    “is it just me or would the yankees have had to given up less for santana?”

    Agreed. Cano alone would have beaten the Mets package, or what the Red Sox were offering. And would have been overpaying, IMO.

  87. V June 11th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    “Now if Bedard becomes available, all bets are off. Otherwise, we’re gonna have to play the hand we have.”

    Bedard?

    You mean, perennial injury risk Bedard? No way, unless he’s -given- away.

  88. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Some folks here are trying too hard to rip CC Sabathia.

    Sorry people but the Yankees do not possess a starter as good as CC.

    Wang is a very good pitcher. He’s not as good a pitcher as CC.

    CC, like Wang, has also not hit his prime.

    You can be against a deal. You don’t have to overdo it with ripping a guy that, if the Yankees acquired him this year, puts them in a helluva lot better position to win this year (and in the future) than they are right now.

    V, I agree with you. I wouldn’t start the bidding with Cano. That’s why I proposed the “Chinese Menu” list.

    However, if it took putting Cano in the deal to get it done (while removing other guys because of Cano’s value), I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand.

  89. mel June 11th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Sara,

    I don’t know. They folded and left the table after only one week. Either no interest or they didn’t want to be played.

  90. Deryck June 11th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    By saying NOBODY except mariano, arod and joba… wouldn’t that make joba an untouchable?

    I think the yankees probably agree that Jeter is untouchable.

  91. bphill June 11th, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    I would rather see a trade for Fuentes or Marte at the moment right now.

  92. raymagnetic ®™ June 11th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    What if you could keep everyone currently on the team and in the offseason sign Jon Garland and Mark Texeira?

    Wouldn’t the current team plus Garland and Texeira be greater than The current team with Sabathia minus Cano?

  93. Deryck June 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    SJ44,

    I might be in the complete minority here… but throughout an entire 162 game season… I would choose Wang over CC (though its very close).

    Especially considering the injury risk with such a big man.

    Pete knows him, but I live very near a baseball injury expert and have discussed CC before. There is potential for some very bad/long injury possibilities with him.

  94. Blargh June 11th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    Also, continue to keep an eye on Sabathia’s season this year (after all, it’s the man’s contract year). He isn’t the best lefty in the AL right now (at least Lee/Saunders/Danks are better than him this season). So that’ll temper the price I’d pay for the rest of the year + negotiation rights.

  95. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    cc sabathia to the yankees is very good for the black community. Im all for it.

  96. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 11th, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    I’d take Wang over CC

  97. Blargh June 11th, 2008 at 4:15 pm

    “What if you could keep everyone currently on the team and in the offseason sign Jon Garland and Mark Texeira?”

    I probably would; but I’d have to think about the final money cost to get Garland away from the west coast. Fredo put up 5 years/75 mil as a possibility (and a real possibility it is); that’ll get me to hesitate and think.

  98. mel June 11th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Francis,

    I can’t figure out if the quota comment or the blow in the nose comment is stupider. :)

  99. Confucius June 11th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    I don’t want anything to do with Sabathia as a free agent. $150mm to bring a guy with a history of laziness and weight issues to New York City? Add to that how badly he pitches against Boston and how badly he pitched in the playoffs. No thanks.

    So I sure as hell don’t want to give up top prospects to get two months of him, especially after we didn’t deal top prospects for Santana. I include Cano (who I fully expect will wake up by the all-star break) and Betances (whose upside is bigger than Sabathia’s backside).

    Again, hasn’t this team done enough already with the pitching acquisitions? We have Wang. Joba’s in our rotation now. Let’s keep developing all these other kids until we find one or two good enough fill out the rotation, and -maybe- acquire a cheaper back-end guy.

  100. Jack Nicholson June 11th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    To win championships, you need big game pitchers, and CC is far, far from being one. Just say no, now and beyond.

  101. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    Jon Garland is an Orange County guy. If he doesn’t re-sign with the Angels, its more likely he stays on the west coast with either the Dodgers or Padres.

    One of the reasons why the White Sox traded him was they felt they had no chance to re-sign him in the off-season because he wanted to return to the west coast.

    David Wells has a body worse than CC’s and held up. He was also a drunk. CC is not. Its not a beauty contest.

    Is it a consideration? Absolutely. Should it be a dealbreaker? Not necessarily.

    That’s why you scout, do backchannel work, and any other research you can to make an informed decision.

    Phil Hughes has suffered more injuries in two years than CC Sabathia has suffered in his entire career.

    Being able to predict with certainty the future health of players is voodoo science. You can do all the homework in the world and sometimes if luck isn’t on your side, it doesn’t work out.

    Look at Ken Griffey Jr. For years, there wasn’t a better player, or conditioned athlete, in the game. The injuries hit and his entire career changed.

  102. Ummmm..... June 11th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    Why is everybody so high on Cano in this blog? Now that pitchers have figured him out his ceiling has lowered and 2B isn’t exactly a high impact position (meaning he can be replaced).

    When are people going to realize that piching is what will win us a WS?

  103. Jorge Steinbrenner, the long-lost third brother June 11th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    I’d take Cano off the list. You can also have either Melky or Gardner, but not both.

    We also get a contract window.

    Hopefully, none of this actually happens, though, and we get to have at him at the end of the year. You don’t anxiety dictate what you do. You let common sense do so.

  104. Ricochet June 11th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    The Yankees should take a good long look at Sabathia but I would only offer a good package nothing great since he is a free agent after this season.

    However, some of you guys are nuts and don’t have a clue when talking about Tabata. He’s a great talent and he’s a kid and some of the things that have happened this season are normal and part of the growing process. Tabata has been way ahead of the curve in his development up to this point and because he’s not been awesome in AA as a 19year old people are writing him off or downplaying his talent is beyond retarded. Austin Jackson is a nice talent and he’s further along than Tabata as well as having a better season but he’s not the better talent. The Yankees will rue the day the trade Jose Tabata.

  105. Bob June 11th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    It all depends on where the Yanks are in the standings.

    But if they get to the point where adding a top shelf starter is all this team needs to make the playoffs and do some damage, than you do a deal, even if it includes Cano.

    Although would Cleveland want him given the contract the Yanks just gave him?

  106. CB June 11th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    “Being able to predict with certainty the future health of players is voodoo science. You can do all the homework in the world and sometimes if luck isn’t on your side, it doesn’t work out.”

    But isn’t that exactly why signing pitchers to long term deals has had such a questionable track record. and why it may not be in a team’s best interest?

    You just can’t predict Mike Hampton. If you could you’d never sign him. But you pay the consequences for years when things go bad.

    And with pitchers on long term deals things tend to go bad over and over and over.

  107. Jorge Steinbrenner, the long-lost third brother June 11th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    To “ummmm….”:

    when are you going to realize that always thinking you’re one player away is always going to mean you’re “one player away.”?

    I’m willing to gamble that Cano is going to bounce back just fine. Good players have bad years.

  108. mel June 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    If you could do a midseason trade for either C.C. or Teixeira which do you do?

    I say Teixeira.

    I’m out, but you guys need to jinx Kazmir. He’s killing the Angels. Perfect thru 4.

  109. canofan42 June 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    I think Joba is untouchable too…

  110. Ummmm..... June 11th, 2008 at 4:24 pm

    Jack – I’d say Sabathia is yet to be proven. I don’t see how you can discount him as being a big game pitcher because of two bad starts against Boston.

  111. Deryck June 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    Ummmmm……

    so you think by getting rid of a young 2B for a pitcher in CC will make us a WS champion this season? If it’s that easy, there must be a reason Cano didn’t go on the Johan deal.

    And to think pitcher’s have figured out Cano, the very guy who scouts and baseball professionals say has the hands of Rod Carew, seems a bit silly to me. Cano has put himself in this mess by decreasing his pitches/AB and tried to elevate his ball a bit too much. Just my opinion

  112. CB June 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

    “Now that pitchers have figured him out his ceiling has lowered”

    Funny – people on this board were saying the exact same thing about Cano at this time last year. That’s when there were people saying that he needed to be sent down to the minors.

    Remember that? How pitchers had him completely figured out last June as well? How’d last season turn out?

  113. mel June 11th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    BTW, Espn’s Gamecast has a new feature. If you hover over the outfield and infield, you can see the percentage of balls (I think) hit to each section by each hitter.

    No, there’s not a pop foul section for A-Rod. :)

  114. S.o.S.27 June 11th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

    Well now its been 10 hours on C.C.

    Change the subject for a second.

    Which sports team is the worst all time in sports.

    1.Clippers
    2.Royals
    3.Devil Rays
    4.Phoenix Cardinals
    5.National/Expos
    6.Brewers
    7.Warriors
    8.Grizzlies
    9.Bobcats
    10.Bucks
    ?

  115. edgar June 11th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    the yankees are the one team that should NEVER trade premium talent for big name, small market pitchers. they so often crack under the pressure of playing here. develop them here or take a chance with free agents, but don’t trade away guys who’ve proven they can perform here for guys who haven’t.

    and why would you trade cano when sabathia can be signed this winter as a free agent? that’s absurd.

  116. Come on! June 11th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    Jose Tabata isn’t going to get us much right now, and Cano is definitely part of my untouchables list. And on with Dellin Bentances, I’d definitely like to keep him, because his potential is up there with Randy Johnson, but what are the chances he puts it all together and becomes a Randy Johnson? Not very likely. And he is a guy that I see as being great, or a failure, and if it means we need to give him away to get a player such as C.C. Sabathia, I say do it, because Sabathia is still young, and if we sign him after this season, we can lock him up for a long time.

  117. Joe June 11th, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    “They’ll want at least one pitcher. Kennedy, Tabata and Betances. Would that get it done?”

    I’m not sure if this is serious or not.

    They would take a finesse righty who has been terrible this year, a troublemaker who has been sent home numerous times who has questions about his ability to drive the ball, and a pitcher not even on the Yankees preseason top 10 prospects? Who would ever trade a lefthanded cy-young winner for these three?

    Throwing in Cano is just shuffling chairs. His hitting has gone down each year since his .342 rookies mark as teams realize they don’t have to throw him strikes. He was a career .278 hitter with a .750 OPS in the minor leagues (something people either forget or didn’t know), and his numbers have regressed towards those averages. I just don’t see how a team would trade Sabathia for either of those packages.

  118. Blargh June 11th, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    SoS: Washington Generals!

  119. Patrick Bateman June 11th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    TurnTwo, most of the people here did classify Kennedy as being in the same group as Hughes and Chamberlain that nobody wanted to trade even though he was always projected to be a #4 or #5 starter at best.

    I can go back and dig up all the Santana discussions where nobody wanted to trade any of the “three”. Typical overvaluing of prospects in their team’s system while they undervalue other players.

  120. Ummmm..... June 11th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    Deryck – You realize Cano is only two years younger than Sabathia, right? Don’t make it out to be like Cano is some 21 year old baby face who has years to develop and turn around. He needs to start figuring things out.

    Let’s see. Slighly older left handed 1/2 vs. a streaky hitting, average feilding 2B and two mid-level legitimate prospects. It would be a steal.

  121. Sally June 11th, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    “Sure, if the Red Sox are willing to deal Ellsbury+Buchholz, and the Yankees -really- want to pull the trigger, and -only- a Cano deal will work, you consider that on its merits.”

    Now what would make you think the Red Sox are going to trade two great players for one lousy Yankee?

  122. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    CB,

    It works both ways. John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, Mike Mussina, Curt Schilling, all are guys who have signed long term deals in their careers and have held up over time.

    Others have not.

    I don’t think you can make a blanket statement that you won’t sign any pitcher to a long term deal. I think you take it on a case by case basis and also factor in your needs at the moment.

    Like I said earlier, one doomsday scenario the Yankees need to avoid. The Red Sox rent CC, win again, let him go, and they get the 2 first round picks.

    That’s a worst case scenario for the Yankees, IMO.

    That’s something they should look to avoid if they can.

  123. David Cone's Labrum June 11th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    I think the Yanks should hire Keith Law.

    A young Bill James, stud Stat guy, baseball operations background, talent evaluator, draft genius. Pay the guy $500k per year to work with Stick and Cash.

    And presto, the Yanks have their very own Gammons.

  124. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    sos…well up until this season(and their future looks bright)…the Atlanta Hawks hands down.

  125. raymagnetic ®™ June 11th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    “Sure, if the Red Sox are willing to deal Ellsbury+Buchholz, and the Yankees -really- want to pull the trigger, and -only- a Cano deal will work, you consider that on its merits.”

    Now what would make you think the Red Sox are going to trade two great players for one lousy Yankee?”

    Read the statement again and then try to formulate a coherent thought.

  126. Mr G June 11th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    As always SJ44 hit it right on. If it includes Cano, the Yanks will ask for a 72 hour window to sign him. No way they give Cano up and still leave open the possibility that Sabathia can walk.

  127. eric June 11th, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    cano has hit 340 and approx 310 last yr. im not sure its time to throw him in a trade.

    kennedy, betences, horne, and gardner and get it done.

  128. 27 this year June 11th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    Come on says that it is a good thing if we lock him up for a long time, I would rather not. We can always sign him to an extension but the goal with a pitcher after arbitration and stuff is generally keep it short. We do not want to get stuck with him for a long time.

    BTW, there are only two long term deals for a pitcher that worked out.
    1. Pedro Martinez when the Red Sox signed him, he had seasons with ERAs under 2 and he wasn’t injured that much. After, when the mets signed him everything went downhill

    2.Mike Mussina – 6 years 88.5 mil when he first signed with Yankees. Idk his numbers, but he held out over the time and I think in each of those seasons he had over 15 wins, wins aren’t the best to judge a guy but if a pitcher has wins the team is winning with him.

  129. Real World June 11th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    I’d love a pre-emptive strike on CC Sabathia. I’d never deal Cano for him though. The Yanks simply do not have any young position players of above average quality in their line-up, or the minors, and thus dealing Cano is a no-no. At-least for a pending FA it is. I understand you can trade and then sign CC, but he’s an FA in 3 months, so why trade your one All-star position player under 30 for him?

    Anyhow, back to CC. I’d do it if the price were reasonable. I like the untouchable list pretty much. I think a deal that were front lined by Kennedy could work. If the Indians ask for, and insist upon Hughes, then I don’t do it. The Yanks have a ton of arms in the minors, and they all can’t get a shot with the big club, so some will have to be dealt soon. That’s partly why you develop prospects. To use them as assets, or chips, to aquire established players. Plus, as has been mentioned, trading for CC, a type A FA, will net the Yanks 2 picks, while also potentially saving their own, were they to sign CC in the offseason.

    Lastly, the Sox aren’t going to trade for CC. They’re set in their rotation, and Fenway park is a right handers park.

  130. randyhater June 11th, 2008 at 4:37 pm

    The Wells/Sabathia comparison is a little silly. No one ever dreamed of giving Boomer a 7 year contract and if they had, he almost certainly would have eaten or drank himself to death.

    If CC is undisciplned and disinterested with a huge walk year jackpot hanging in front of his nose, imagine what he’ll be like when his lifetime deal is carved in stone.

  131. NYSuperFan June 11th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    His numbers have taken a real downturn this year, but I would put an OK package together for him.

  132. Igawa's buck teeth (Free Brett Campaign) June 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    I dont get how some of you rather have Tex than CC if the Yanks dont land CC who the hell eats all those innings next year? I rather the yanks get a righty bat that can play D and hit 9th and have CC than have Tex and no pitching.

  133. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    mel, stupid maybe….true, absolutely.

  134. whozat June 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    “TurnTwo, most of the people here did classify Kennedy as being in the same group as Hughes and Chamberlain”

    None of the reasonable people did. I remember being loathe to trade him in ADDITION to a big piece like Hughes or Wang.

  135. Will June 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Trading Cano would be madness.

    Not only would we be selling way way low on him, we’d also have NO replacement, either within the organization or available without for reasonable cost.

  136. Jerkface June 11th, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Deryck:

    Cano has increased his pitches per plate appearance this year from last year. Infact, it has increased every year he has been in the league.

    Seeing pitches isn’t his problem, choosing which ones to swing at is.

  137. Mark (Free Brett Campaign) June 11th, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Sally- How exactly is Bucholz “great” Have you see his numbers this year?

  138. DoggyBall June 11th, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    http://tinyurl.com/2yq6cx

    good stuff on JeffMarquez who having a terrible year @AAA

  139. Real World June 11th, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    BTW, the Yankees don’t have any Left handers worth a damn, in their system. Sabathia would serve to minimize that fact.

  140. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    Nobody is giving Sabathia a 7 year contract. If Santana got 5 with an incentive based option for a 6th year, CC won’t get more than Santana.

    Not in years and not in money.

  141. Ummmm..... June 11th, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    randy – I wouldn’t say Sabathia has been exactly undisciplined and disinterested. His last 10 starts have been Cy Young worthy, giving up only 17 in 73 innings for a 2.10 ERA with 73ks to only 14 walks. He had two ridicuously back to back starts in early April and has since been as dominate as you can expect from anybody.

  142. Christine June 11th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

    Rebecca,

    For some reason your comments about being a bad GM made me think of my aunt who raises beef cattle. She would make an EXCELLENT GM: She names them, raises them, bonds with them, then sends them to the slaughter house. She will show us pictures of them when they were alive and say “oh, she made me a lot of money.”

    I tend to be like you, I would get too emotionally involved and wouldn’t be able to part with them either.

  143. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    I have heard in the past that C.C. wants to be a Yankee and if the Yanks got deep in the playoffs I believe he would be inclined to sign with the Yanks if the money was the same as a worse team was offering for instance if the Yanks and the Texas Rangers offered the same contract obviously C.C. is a Bomber. Also Sabathia is at the very worst a great 2 if not an ACE, IPK hasnt even proved he belongs in the majors a deal anchored by him wouldn’t be terrible and throw in one of the OF’s preferably not Ajax and I think its worth it.

  144. Anthony Murillo June 11th, 2008 at 4:48 pm

    I would not want Robbie to go.

    Melky and Ian, on the other hand, I would drive them both to the airport to Cleveland any day of the week.

  145. countryclub June 11th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    Trading for CC, when we will have every chance to get him after the season, is madness. I dont see how the Indians can ask for anything but B level prospects. If we can get him for B level prospects then I’m all for it. The teams that want CC are in control here, not the Indians.

  146. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 4:51 pm

    A rotation starting with C.C. Wanger and Joba seems like it could win us alot of games, also Pettitte is going to get better as the year goes on he always does and Moose has been phenomenal.

  147. Drive 4-5 June 11th, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    I would hate to give up Cano. As maddenning as he has been this year, I’m willing to write it off. The kid has too much talent to be this bad. It would take a trade for a top of the line lefty starter like Sabathia for me to be comfortable trading Cano.

    Melky? I love Melky as much as anyone, but he’s a classic example of Yankee fans over valuing their systems players. To consider him untouchable in a trade for CC is beyond absurd. Melky’s a terrific outfielder. But there are 53 regular outfielders in the majors with a higher OPS than Melky. The names include David DeJesus,Scott Hairston and David Murphy. To hear any of those names in a trade for Sabathia and the word “steal” would be included.

    Tabata? He’s only 19 years old but if he doesnt get an attitude adjustment he could wear out his welcome before he’s 21. He obviously not fully grown, but at 160 pounds he has a long way to go before he fills into the body type for a major league player. This year, you can say Tabata has been even more of a disappointment than Cano, and that’s saying a lot. Tabata’s trade value may never be higher if he doesnt change his attitude and work habits.

  148. Rishi June 11th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    so Kazmir’s perfect game is over – tie score in TB

  149. torrey June 11th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    You don’t trade Cano. His arm helps us get a lot of DoublePlays and ground ball outs that aren’t tailormade, especially when Wang is pitching. I wouldn’t give up on his swing, either.

    Since there will be a hefty contract involved, just put together a package of prospects, they are not all going to be able to play with the Yankees. If pushed, include Betamit also.

  150. Guiseppe Franco June 11th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    Real World is absolutely right.

    The Red Sox are absolutely not going to trade for Sabathia.

    It’s not their style. The rumor is out there to start up crazy discussions like this thread and get Yankee fans worked up into a tizzy.

    I’m completely against dealing for Sabathia. He’s too much of a health risk.

    I’m sorry, but I don’t trust near 300lbs pitchers to last 6-7 years in addition to the wear and tear he already has on that arm.

    Pulling the trigger on so many big names and bigger contracts is exactly how this team has continued to dig themselves deeper into this hole over the years.

    You’d think Yankee fans would have learned their lesson by now.

    I guess not.

  151. Rishi June 11th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    *rather, tie game in LA

  152. JsDad June 11th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    In my view, if they can get Sabathia, they should get him. They can use a good lefty starter for years to come. And he has the ability to help the Yankees turn this season around.

    But I’d be very hesitant to trade Cano. Maybe not untouchable, but very close to it. He’s a streaky player, but clearly one with a great deal of talent and a proven record of performance. A slow start this year doesn’t change that.

    We too quickly fall in love with the potential of prospects, and too quickly fall out of love when their everyday performance can’t live up to our hopes.

  153. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    The one thing Im petrified of is Boston getting him for even half a season that basically means game over for us in the AL East, if Boston is hot for C.C. I cough up IPK and Melky just to avoid conceding the season.

  154. pete June 11th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    trading cano or tabata or kennedy or even betances right now would be an absolutely ridiculous move. all of them have very high ceilings, and none of them are doing well right now. Why trade when the market’s low? If you’ve given up on one or more of them, wait till he goes on a hot streak. But you simply don’t trade prospects/young players who aren’t doing well unless they have been doing poorly for such a long time that it would be reasonable to have given up on them. That is not the case here, as all of those guys have essentially had 2 bad months.
    Plus, who knows – would that really be enough to get us to the playoffs? I’d rather take my chances on who we have and not risk the future for this year unless i’m guarunteeing a postseason birth and giving myself a good chance to go deep into the playoffs.

  155. Paul June 11th, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    Trading Cano makes no sense for a rental. He’s a career .300+ hitter signed to a very reasonable deal for the next 4 years. The price for a rental should be prospects who are the equivalent of two first-rounders plus whatever marginal value 4 months of CC adds. If you are in contention, that’s one thing. If you are not, that’s another.

    If you can sign CC and are trading Cano, you have to consider the economic difference between CC’s extended contract and Cano’s 4-year deal. That is a huge hit for the Yanks. On top of that, you subtract someone who hits well above normal for his position and you don’t have anyone ready to play second. Are we really thinking we can get to the WS with Betamit??

  156. Josh June 11th, 2008 at 4:58 pm

    C.C. is a 400lb fat*** who can break down at any time.. hes going to demand at least 6 yrs in his contract.. no way do i want this guy.. no way.

  157. saucY June 11th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    not to change the subject, but i need fantasy league advice. Dan Uggla for Adrian Gonzalez?

  158. ML June 11th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    No way do I deal Cano for anyone. 2B is a shallow position which makes Cano MORE, NOT LESS valuable.

    SJ44, I respect your opinion quite a bit but I don’t think we should be making decisions based on the Sox. That’s the old George way of doing things. As others have pointed out, the Sox don’t make sense for Sabathia. If they are in, it will be just like Santana. They’ll only be in to try and drive up the price for us or prevent us from getting him.

    I’d deal for Sabathia if I could sign him and the price was reasonable. That means no Cano. I’d include Kennedy and 2 other prospects not named Horne, Tabata or Jackson. If that can’t get it done, we’ll sign CC in the offseason.

  159. PJH June 11th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    Why give up so much for a guy you dont even know will sign with you when you can probably get him for nothing but $$$ in 5-6 months?

  160. Dee June 11th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    Give up the farm to rent CC for 2 months? No thank you. And yes it’ll be only 2 months…CC did not pitch well at last year’s playoff at all. People can’t have double standards and scream that Wang is not an ace b/c of his PO performance while giving CC a pass.

    Cano is a star in the making even though he is a space cadet so far this season, but he has nothing but upside. I’m not sure about CC’s upside, but I do think he might be growing side ways. Someone in the previous board said David Wells was big too. I hear what you’re saying, Wells was not slim for sure, but he was nowhere as big as CC. I’m not being “weight-ist”, heck Babe Ruth was big, but he didn’t look like he was about to have a heart attack.

  161. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    Honestly how would trading a few mid-level prospects for C.C. be reverting back to our old ways that was back when the farm was baron and we had no chips, now the system has lots of great prospects and also some good mid range guys not all of these young guys will turn into a stud big leaguer and if we can get a guy who has a Cy Young under his belt even for a few months its worth it.

  162. Drive 4-5 June 11th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

    Guiseppe Franco,

    The difference is Sabathia isn’t in his 30′s like other big name players the Yankees have acquired over the years. He doesn’t turn 28 till next month.

    The other thing is that the Yankees have not developed a left handed starter since Andy Pettitte in the 90′s. There are no left handers among their top pitching prospects. No successful Yankee team that I can rememeber didnt have 1 if not 2 left handers at the top of their rotation.

    Sabbathia, IMO, fills a requirement that is not being met internally and he has yet to hit his prime.

  163. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 11th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    Moises Alou is 50/50 for tonight’s game, he’s taking an MRI

    who had the under ?

  164. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    “C.C. is a 400lb fat*** who can break down at any time.. hes going to demand at least 6 yrs in his contract.. no way do i want this guy.. no way.”

    Josh must not watch alot of baseball his talent is through the roof and sure hes a risk every pitcher is a risk Joba is a risk hes a big dude too but some time the talent is worth taking a shot on I love a bull of a pitcher a guy who can throw CG’s in this ERA that is more attractive than a less risky guy who only can go 5-6 innings with alright stuff. PS I believe C.C. is 290 and he’s also 6’7 hes a mountain of a man not just fat.

  165. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    could you imagine if the yankees could get russel martin and carsten? a black pitcher throwing to a black catcher….that would be amazing for the black community.

    Clearly I have a thing for black baseball players, but my bias aside, that would be sweet.

  166. Tim N. June 11th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Kennedy, Cabrera, and Duncan. If they throw in someone else, I’d maybe throw in Tabata. Let Brett Gardner play center.

  167. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    what did alou get bit by a mosquito last night causing a torn ligament?

  168. Dee June 11th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    “Pete makes a good point.”

    Hey SJ44, are you trying to suck up to Pete? I know he’s our sweet host and all, but didn’t you just write 2 days ago about how bringing CC in would be a horrible idea and you thought he looked like he was about to pass out pitching in the heat over the weekend?

    Or are you saying Pete made a good point about something else?

  169. Drive 4-5 June 11th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    Dee,

    I agree that the 241 inings he pitched last year seemed to have worn Sabbathia down. However, he certainly didnt pitch any worse than CM Wang and I will gladly take Wang on my staff anytime.

    I think that unless Cleveland ( his first choice) made him an overwhelming offer, he would be amendable to signing with the Yankees at the end of the year.

  170. ANdy in Sunny Daytona June 11th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

    CC = Charleston Chew, because he’s about 3 candy bars from 350 lbs.

  171. Guiseppe Franco June 11th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    C’mon guys….

    Sabathia is freaking 300 lbs!!!

    Does anyone really think this guy’s body is going to hold up well into his mid-30s?

    I also cannot stress enough the wear and tear he already has on his arm.

    Cashman isn’t trading for Sabathia. And I’d be surprised if he signs him during the offseason.

    The Red Sox aren’t trading for him. Even if they do – so what?

    The Yanks shouldn’t dictate what they do because of Boston. That’s how the Bombers got Kei Igawa as a response to RSN signing Matsuzaka.

  172. Anthony June 11th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    What is wrong with some of you people? First, the deal won’t go through if CC doesn’t sign a contract with us. Second, it will not be for more than five years. Third, we can bring up Alberto Gonzalez to play second, which would not be a huge dropoff this year the way Cano’s been playing (at 25 years old already). Fourth, if he gets traded, he won’t be available for “just draft picks” at the end of the season, he’ll sign with whoever trades for him. Finally, if we trade for him now, we can sign Tex (a Boras client and sure-fire bet to make it to FA) in the offseason without any limits on the numbers of Type A’s we can sign getting in the way.

  173. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    Huh? I never said he looked like he was going to pass out from the heat. Perhaps an impersonator wrote that. I sure didn’t.

    I am not sucking up to Pete. I thought his idea about producing a pick’em list was a good one.

  174. Anthony June 11th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    CC is 27, starting from next year, 5 years brings him through his 33rd birthday. That’s not that old.

  175. 27 this year June 11th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

    One thing about CMW, he is not exactly the dominating ace you look for as an ace. But, on the other hand, he is better than a #2. Basically, I would love to see an ace with him and that would give us a great 1 2 punch and Joba hopefully will develop into the best 3 adn then hopefully, (hopefully because I want him to be the best) be better than Wang

  176. randy l. June 11th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    “It’s really about how you want to manage risk and uncertainty.”
    cb-
    you had said something a little while ago about how you trusted probability with the numbers of yankees pitching prospects that were being developed and drafted.
    i’m in agreement with that because you never know what is going to happen to any one pitcher.
    things can happen with an everyday player like arod or jeter, but when they are at the point of free agency, you have a high probability that they are going to play most of the years.
    with any free agent pitcher who wants a long contract, you don’t have the same certainty or probability that they will pitch most of the contract.
    with a minor league pitcher like hughes or even joba, if they get injured the team is out about 3-5 million and no permanent fiscal damage is done.
    it’d be unfortunate, but it’s not an albatross around the neck of the team for years to come.

  177. Dee June 11th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

    I’m heading to my first game at Shea this year tonight and probably last one ever. Call me optimistic but thought I would check out our potential WS rival. Also I’ve never seen Brandon Webb pitch so thought I’d see in person what the 11-2 big hoopla is all about. Plus I’ll probably get home in time to watch the Yankee game, not a bad deal:-)

    Go Rasner!!

  178. Josh June 11th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

    “Josh must not watch alot of baseball his talent is through the roof and sure hes a risk every pitcher is a risk Joba is a risk hes a big dude too but some time the talent is worth taking a shot on I love a bull of a pitcher a guy who can throw CG’s in this ERA that is more attractive than a less risky guy who only can go 5-6 innings with alright stuff. PS I believe C.C. is 290 and he’s also 6′7 hes a mountain of a man not just fat.”

    I watch more than you obviously to know that he is going to demand an enormous contract which have proven time and time again to be disasters for pitchers.. that hes a whale of a man makes it even worse.

    think what you want, by all means, but youre wrong. and comparing him to joba is comical.. joba isnt demanding any mega contracts yet

  179. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 11th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Peter Gammons: the Braves might be willing sell Teixeira for SP depth

    Well now you know he’s not coming to NY. :?

  180. Eugie June 11th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

    Why would they do this? They already gave up the season to make Joba a starter. It’s going to take alot more than CC Sabathia (cy or not he is a little overrated) to even make the postseason.

    Not to mention, They’re going to look like idiots if they offer a package similar to the Santana deal to the Indians.

  181. murphydog June 11th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    “joba isnt demanding any mega contracts yet”

    Um, he can’t yet.

  182. Dee June 11th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    SJ yeah thought I’d ask, coz it’s not like you to contradict yourself. Online impersonators are so lame!

  183. Anthony June 11th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    I love how a lot of you people read on ESPN or somewhere else that all long term contracts for pitchers are bad, so now you just regurgitate that dogma constantly. Bottom line is it depends on the guy, some guys are worth it. Clemens from 99-03 worked out pretty well. That’s five years and he was 40 by the end.

  184. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

    Yeah CC needs to lose 100 pounds and be 6 foot 7 inches tall and weigh 165 pounds….thats a good look.

    you people are crazy. CC Sabathia is a large man, thats all. He doesnt need to lose weight.

  185. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 11th, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    Gammons also saids Cleveland is not trading Sabathia, they’d rather take the 2 draft picks, then take a under value deal. They want an ala Bartolo Colon to Montreal type deal and they don’t believe they will get that.

  186. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 11th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Dodgers putting Nomar at SS, they don’t believe Furcal will be back for a long while, they are in the market for a SS.

    Hey we have a SS his name is Alberto Gonzalez would we trade him for Kou ?

  187. Joe June 11th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    “Gammons also saids Cleveland is not trading Sabathia, they’d rather take the 2 draft picks, then take a under value deal. They want an ala Bartolo Colon to Montreal type deal and they don’t believe they will get that.”

    So, that means he’ll be traded.

  188. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    Everybody is hating on C.C. because hes having a bad year but if he was on the Yanks he would be the best pitcher except Moose which is an aberration, If C.C. was 10-2 with a 2.50 and 100 K’s everyone in this room would want him and who cares if hes a heavy guy so was boomer wells and he was great into his late 30′s.

  189. Confucius June 11th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    “Alberto Gonzalez to play second, which would not be a huge dropoff this year the way Cano’s been playing (at 25 years old already).”

    A comment like this is sheer lunacy. :\

    Alberto Gonzalez … not a huge dropoff … from Robinson Cano? Who competed for the batting title last year despite his first two months of the season not being very different from his first two months this season?

  190. Guiseppe Franco June 11th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Think of it this way…

    Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, and Bobby Abreu have been called “old and slow” on many occasions over the last 14 months.

    These guys are 33 and 34 years old and in a heckuva lot better physical shape than a 300lbs Sabathia will be at that age.

    He’s not going to be a durable pitcher over the course of a 5-6 year deal. His body is enormous and his arm has a ton of miles on it.

    I wouldn’t touch him.

  191. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Gammons: “The toughest strike to get called is the third strike by a road pitcher at Fenway Park”.

    Gee, ‘ya don’t say? Its something some of us have known for years! lol

    All you Weight Watchers fanatics, chew on this:

    CC was at 97 in the 9th inning of a complete game 1-0 win last night.

    I’ll take the “fat man” on my pitching staff if the price is right.

    Its not like the Yankees are loaded with guys that can do what he can do.

    It probably won’t happen but, if it did, it wouldn’t be a rental deal.

    If the Yankees ever decided to jump into the sweepstakes, they would make sure they signed him long term.

  192. Dee June 11th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

    “Yeah CC needs to lose 100 pounds and be 6 foot 7 inches tall and weigh 165 pounds….thats a good look.”

    CC is not 6’7″ 265 pounds. He’s more like 6’5″ 310 pounds. So if he loses 100, yes in fact he will look much better:-)

    Look at him, and look at Joba. Joba is thick and athletic. CC is fat and sloppy. There IS a difference!

  193. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 11th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    “So, that means he’ll be traded.”

    No it means they’ll take the 2 draft picks for next year’s draft while letting CC walk.

  194. Tyler June 11th, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    wtf? Isn’t Pete always going on about how the Yankees should go with the youth movement and not go after CC?

  195. Josh June 11th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

    “Um, he can’t yet.”

    gosh youre smart, way to take it literally :|

  196. Patrick (the good one) June 11th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    SJ,

    What if Sabathia were only available as a rental? Would you still try to trade for him? I think either way (rental or long term) the Yankees would consider it but the package for long term vs rental would be vastly different.

  197. Real World June 11th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    The beauty of CC’s numbers is that he might come a little cheaper.

  198. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 11th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

    Look at him, and look at Joba. Joba is thick and athletic. CC is fat and sloppy. There IS a difference!

    CC is not fat he is big boned ! :x

  199. Anthony June 11th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    “Alberto Gonzalez … not a huge dropoff … from Robinson Cano? Who competed for the batting title last year despite his first two months of the season not being very different from his first two months this season?”

    Competed for the batting title? He hit barely over 300, Ordonez hit 363, I guess we have a much different definition of competing. Anyway, what I said was that Cano is not producing much this year and not showing signs of improvement. He did not have a first two months that were this bad last year either. I don’t know who your fact-checker is, but fire him.

  200. Joe June 11th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    “No it means they’ll take the 2 draft picks for next year’s draft while letting CC walk.”

    My remark was more on Gammons reliability then anything. When was the last time he got anything right. If you want to believe the guy that said Hansen is the best set up man, be my guest.

  201. KB June 11th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    Bad news- Cox going on DL for Scranton- guess that pushes Robertson up on the “next to be called up” list. Source- Chad Jennigns/ RiverAveBlues.

  202. LathamJoe June 11th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    As I said in an earlier thread, its insanity to THINK about trading Cano. At 25 years old, there is no other position player in the organization with as much talent and upside as Cano – plain and simple.
    Many of you are suggesting that Cano would be the “centerpiece” of any deal – so do all the other GMs around the League.
    An everyday player like Cano, with his long term upside, will be far more valuable than CC will be. Cashman has gone overboard drafting young arms and has little position player candidates in the Organization that can match Robbie’s talent and potential. Don’t give up on him for having a below- par 60 Games! Sheesh!

  203. The Lady June 11th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    He’s so not worth it, especially if they don’t sign him along with it, and why would they sign him if they weren’t willing to sign Johan Santana?

  204. Eugie June 11th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    “Everybody is hating on C.C. because hes having a bad year but if he was on the Yanks he would be the best pitcher except Moose which is an aberration, If C.C. was 10-2 with a 2.50 and 100 K’s everyone in this room would want him and who cares if hes a heavy guy so was boomer wells and he was great into his late 30’s.”

    The problem is CC has never been 10-2 with a 2.50 era. He’s a little overrated.

  205. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    Pete sees that IPK will never be on the level of C.C. and he also is intelligent enough to know that this pitching staff needs a Cy Young type pitcher to lead them to October.

  206. Francis The Praying Mantis June 11th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    Dee, you couldnt be more wrong about CC’s height and weight

  207. MoBoy June 11th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    I would still keep Dellin Betances and Cano.But The Yankees need someone to eat 200 innings this and next year.

    Kennedy and Hughes aren’t both gonna be in the rotation next year.And Joba not gonna go 180 innings next year either.MUssina and Pettitte both won’t be here either.

    WE need a 200 innings pitcher.And we still might need another pitcher or reliever.

  208. Rebecca--Optimist Prime--Mission 2708 June 11th, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    KB: How?

  209. Kill-Schill(ing) June 11th, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    Hey, CB, SJ44, can you give me some names of international signings to follow when the period begins on July 1st.

    Which players should we as Yankee fans covet most and root for the Yankees to sign.

    I think I caught the Baseball America guys mention some Latino 17-yr-old or 18-yr-old phenom that occupies the top of everyone’s wish list? Do you know who I’m talking about? What’s his name? And what are the chance the Yankees could sign him?

  210. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 11th, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    Again they are not trading CC Sabathia that was told to Gammons by Shapiro. They want a Bartolo Colon haul if they do.

    So it would be like this Robinson Cano, Austin Jackson, Eric Duncan, Alan Horne…That type of deal. If not they’ll end the year getting the 2 draft picks for CC’s service.

  211. Dee June 11th, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    “Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, and Bobby Abreu have been called “old and slow” on many occasions over the last 14 months.

    These guys are 33 and 34 years old and in a heckuva lot better physical shape than a 300lbs Sabathia will be at that age.”

    Also keep in mind that CC is from an obese family and is known to not enjoy working out. If he gets the big long contract that he wants, there’s no telling that he won’t let himself go and balloon to 350lbs by the time he is 33.

    Look at Miguel Cabrera. He is younger than CC and was no way as big as CC is to begin with, but it didn’t take him long to balloon an extra 50 pounds when he let himself slip last year. It could happen very easily for CC.

  212. Anthony June 11th, 2008 at 5:32 pm

    Why is Cano’s relative value to other prospects in our system of such importance? He’s far from the most important piece of our team offensively. In fact, the most important pieces this year are guys we didn’t develop at all: ARod, Giambi, and Matsui.

  213. William Buckner June 11th, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    Here is a list of free agent 2B after the season. If Cano were dealt, he would not be easily replaced. That would leave a hole at 2nd, RF, and a light hitting CF.
    Second basemen
    Ray Durham (37)
    Mark Ellis (32)
    Marcus Giles (31)
    Mark Grudzielanek (39)
    Orlando Hudson (31)
    Tadahito Iguchi (34)
    Jeff Kent (41)
    Felipe Lopez (29)
    Mark Loretta (37)
    Aaron Miles (32)
    Jose Valentin (39)

  214. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    “MoBoy June 11th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    I would still keep Dellin Betances and Cano.But The Yankees need someone to eat 200 innings this and next year.

    Kennedy and Hughes aren’t both gonna be in the rotation next year.And Joba not gonna go 180 innings next year either.MUssina and Pettitte both won’t be here either.

    WE need a 200 innings pitcher.And we still might need another pitcher or reliever.”

    I agree vehemently who is going to pitch those 200 innings next year not IPK, not even Phil franchise he wont get to his projected 150 IP even if he wanted to this year, Moose might or might not be back and Andy is gone like a freight train so who is picking up the slack next year are these youngsters going to rise up from the minors and hurl 200 innings I really doubt it.

  215. Anthony June 11th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Focusing just on the loss at 2B misses the whole picture. The point is that the value of CC as an ace is greater than that of a 2B who has little power.

  216. evan June 11th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Wow, pete, you usually know whats up, but the “trade” and “untradeable” lists are incredibly stupid. I mean, Jesus Montero, a guy at LOW SINGLE A, is more valuable than an established allstar? You seem set on trading tabata also, and have a huge man crush on A-Jax.
    And why in the world would Melancon, a ninth round reliever at double A coming off tommy john surgery, be untradable, moreso than an allstar or a starter who was pitcher of the eastern league last year? And finally, Brackman, who has never pitched in profesional baseball, in untouchable? Untradable with the contract, maybe, but not untouchable.

  217. KB June 11th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

    Rebecca- no specifics yet as to the injury to Cox- just have to hope its not serious.

  218. Dee June 11th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Francis, I know players tend to over report their height and under report their weight.

    You cannot convince me that CC Sabathia is 265 pounds, I’m friends with an expat Rugby team, many of them are at least 250, 260. But none of them looks close to how big CC is. Unless you try to convince me the camera adds 50 pounds then I’ll let you have that:-)

  219. greg June 11th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    Why would the Yankees trade away players whose values are at their lowest points for a player who’s having a bad season and will be a free agent at the end of it?

  220. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 11th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    Chad Jennings just reported JB Cox was put on the 7 day DL no apparent injury someone from Trenton will have to fill in his innings.

    cue the Mark Melancon speculations.

  221. Dee June 11th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    ok heading to Shea now, catch you all later!

  222. Come on! June 11th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    SJ, your right. Sabathia won’t get more years than Santana, and locking Sabathia up for, let’s say 3 years, along with the next couple years being option years and incentive based, than it’s a good deal on our part.

  223. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    Ray Durham (37)
    Mark Ellis (32)
    Marcus Giles (31)
    Mark Grudzielanek (39)
    Orlando Hudson (31)
    Tadahito Iguchi (34)
    Jeff Kent (41)
    Felipe Lopez (29)
    Mark Loretta (37)
    Aaron Miles (32)
    Jose Valentin (39)

    Orlando Hudson is the best 2B and he has an ok bat.

  224. Joe June 11th, 2008 at 5:39 pm

    “Again they are not trading CC Sabathia that was told to Gammons by Shapiro. They want a Bartolo Colon haul if they do.”

    So, what is it? Are they not trading him, or do they want a Colon haul for him. Those 2 sentences contradict. They’re either not trading him, or they want a large haul for him. Also, GM’s have been known to lie a time or two. Of course Shapiro will say they’re not trading him. It’s June, they are still telling the fans they’re in contention. Brandon, you’re better than this, don’t be naive.

  225. SJ44 June 11th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    Patrick,

    I wouldn’t do a rental deal for CC. If that was the only option, I’d pass.

    If you trade for him, it has to be for the long term. Even if it was a prospect only deal.

    Brandon,

    Please don’t take Gammons word as gospel. This is a guy who last week declared Craig Hansen as the best setup man in the AL East.

    If Mark Shapiro gets an offer that in his opinion tops the 2 draft picks he would get for CC, he’s dealing.

    Not saying he will but, for Gammons to say on June 11 that CC Sabathia isn’t going to get traded is as idiotic as trying to sell Craig Hansen as the best setup guy in the AL East.

    KS,

    The list begins and ends with Michael Inoa. He’s a 6-7, 15 year old pitcher. By all accounts, he’s the Montero/DeLeon of this year’s signing period. The consensus #1 guy.

    There are other interesting guys but, Iona is the guy everybody wants.

  226. G. Love June 11th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

    The sad thing is this is all a pipe dream.

    The Brian Cashman of today doesn’t have the stones for this kind of deal. He’s wedded to his prospects. He’s afraid of seeing someone become a star on another team.

    I don’t think for a minute he would put Cano in the trade if that’s what would make it happen.

    I also don’t think he’d put anything else in the trade of value.

    Cashman is used to robbing teams at gunpoint in trades. We get an all star, we give you money and warm bodies.

    That’s his acumen as a general manager.

    His trades have basically all been salary dumps to us where we give up little to no talent.

    When he reversed it and we dumped salary (Sheff and Unit) he honestly didn’t bring back a major haul other than Ohlendorf. If Humberto becomes a major leaguer it’s a different story, but the jury is still way out on the talent he received. The benefits of those moves were moving old parts who had no fit on the team without releasing them.

    Which leads me to why he’ll get schooled if the organization decides they want CC.

    He has such a death grip on the prospects, such a high opinion on guys who are years away and in the majority of cases won’t make it to the bigs, that I can’t fathom him coming to terms on a deal with a guy like Shapiro.

    Shapiro isn’t going to trade CC, lose the draft picks and the window to possibly resign the guy for Marquez, Gardener and Shelley Duncan.

    It’s going to take real talent, enough talent to make losing the picks and the player worth it’s while.

    I don’t think Cashman will give up what Shapiro wants.

    Just like some of the “pollyanna pom pom everyone in the minor leagues is going to be a stud” fanatics in here, Cashman has bought into the press.

    The shame of it all is he’s leaving this current team out to dry if he doesn’t show the power/smarts to get a guy like CC and lock him up.

    I can guarantee you Theo has already come up with about 6 different 3 team trades to get CC where the Sox give up none of the guys they care about and another organization gives the Indians what they want.

    It’ll be something ridiculous like him dealing Lugo and getting the pieces from that trade and sending them to Cleveland for CC.

    Cashman has to prove to us that he can make an even trade. Quite honestly, he hasn’t done so and I think only knows how to play poker at the table when the other players have no chips left in front of them.

    He won’t trade Cano, even though there are very good reasons to trade him if he is the lynchpin in getting CC for this season and beyond.

    We can find another 2b. Go get Orlando Hudson. He can pick it just as good as anyone at 2b and hits well and the Diamondbacks could be looking to trade him with the logjam of players they have.

    I’d rather have CC and a 2b who plays for more than 1/2 a year than Cano and no CC.

    Cashman won’t see it that way so it’s almost moot to talk about it.

  227. Kill-Schill(ing) June 11th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    CC Sabbathia = a more disciplined David Wells.

    What would you have surrendered for Wells in his prime?

    Boomer’s first three full years as a starter
    1) 1990–Age 27– 11-6, 3.14 ERA. 1.11 WHIP
    2) 1991–Age 28– 15-10, 3.72 ERA, 1.20 WHIP
    3) 1993– Age 30– 11-9, 4.19 ERA, 1.20 WHIP

    Sabathia’s last three years as a starter
    1) 2005- Age 24– 15-10, 4.03 ERA, 1.26 WHIP
    2) 2006- Age 25– 12-11, 3.22 ERA, 1.17 WHIP
    3) 2007–Age 26– 19-7, 3.21 ERA, 1.14 WHIP

  228. El Maestro June 11th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    First of all, Joba should be untouched too.

    Second, no Cano. He may have an awful season with the stick, but he has the talent for being a top player.

    Third, I always have had the feeling that the next deal of Sabathia will be awful for his team. His weight has been a concern for me from older times. Assuming he will cost top dollar (140, 150M?) I would think it twice before doing that. They didn’t pull the trigger on Johan, why now?. Johan is much better than CC…

    This team has been hurt too much by awful contracts, just to create another one.

  229. bru June 11th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    joe you talk about cano’s regression what about sabathia’s 4-8 record,4.34 and more alarming more hits per innings pitched,1.35 whip and the league is batting 2.71 against him.not good at all.the yankees have added nobody from last year exept a few bullpen guys that are not helping and they were a FEW GAMES AWAY FROM THE BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL.i would never sign a pitcher for 5-7 yrs at 17-20 mill a year you will have a pitcher that is terrible for most of those years.3 yrs,60 million or 4 yrs 76 million tops.the longer the years the less per year.in 2009 yankees will have wang,joba,hughes,rasner,braCKMAN IN 2010 AND HE MIGHT BE A MONSTER plus others in the mix and maybe some free agents to chose from.i would trade melky,kennedy,betances,tabata if the contract was reasonable otherwise no way.the yankees have a lot of pieces to trade i just wouldn,t get rid of hughes,brackman,jackson,montero.imagine sabathia,wang,hughes,joba,brackman with rasner and a bunch of others in the mix.

  230. Bill June 11th, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    Trading Cano for Sabathia would be beyond stupid. Yea he is struggling, but he is the only good offensive player we have under the age of 30. Are we just going to keep signing FA’s to replace our aging vets? Our system is also not stacked with positional talent. Jackson and Gardner are the only guys that could come up and start for us as early as next year and that’s probably pushing it for Jackson. Outside of those two and Tabata the rest of our positional talent is in Low A ball right now.

    Also we still need to show some more signs of life before we make a big push like this. This team has shown to be a pretty consistent .500 team. If that changes and we feel like we’re one piece away let’s look into a Tabata, IPK, and 3rd prospect deal.

  231. Brandon (supporting "Alex being Alex") (J.Santana HR allowed count: 12 ) June 11th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    SJ I know it’s Gammons so you may be right about that. I don’t see the Yankees dealing for CC so I agree a bit w/ the Red Sox homer he saids alot of teams will not be willing to deal what Cleveland wants especially w/ CC being a rental.

  232. MoBoy June 11th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    Ohh J.B Cox is going to the 7 day DL.That what happens when you rely on TJ surgery rehab pitchers.Now I can’t wait till Melchon and Sanchez follows.

    Even Pete admitted a trade must go down if Sabathia is out there.Even though the people here are in fantasy land.

    That kind of fantasy thinking (Nick From SF and Buddy) is why Kennedy and Hughes pitched badly and are injuried and hurt there chances for next year.

  233. saucY June 11th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    so no comments on the fantasy trade proposal? Dan Uggla for Adrian Gonzalez?

    as for Sabathia. The more i read about him today, the more i’m liking him. the guy could probably lose a few, but some of the comments here today are ridiculous. lose 100 lbs? the guy is 6’7″/290 according to yahoo. imagine him at 190? that couldn’t be healthy.

    http://tinyurl.com/68bae3

    i’d take a tall heavy pitcher over a tall scrawny pitcher any day.

  234. Patrick (the good one) June 11th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    “Orlando Hudson is the best 2B and he has an ok bat.”

    Actually Mark Ellis is far better than Hudson and is probably the best fielding 2B in either league.

  235. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    “First of all, Joba should be untouched too.”
    The fact that Joba is untouchable does not need to be spoken.

  236. vinny-b June 11th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    Kennedy, Tabata, and Marquez, for Sabathia.

    the trade is based on a rental. And i let Sabathia walk after the year, and take the two Round 1 selections.

    end of story.

  237. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 5:50 pm

    ““Orlando Hudson is the best 2B and he has an ok bat.”

    Actually Mark Ellis is far better than Hudson and is probably the best fielding 2B in either league.”

    O-dog has 3 Gold Gloves, how is Ellis the best 2B again?

  238. Chris (save Jose Tabata!) June 11th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

    I’m not against trading Cano but WHO WOULD PLAY 2ND BASE?
    I wouldn’t feel comfortable with the Alberto Gonzalez or Bernie Castro manning 2nd. If they can get Sabathia without giving up Jackson, Montero, Hughes, Joba, or Tabata, I think they should go for it.

  239. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Tabata is really disappointing but I still dunno if I wanna trade him for a rental though.

  240. Patrick (the good one) June 11th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    O-dog has 3 Gold Gloves, how is Ellis the best 2B again?

    His RZR this year is .908 which leads qualifying second basemen. Last year Ellis was at .884 which again led the league, the year before that he was .855. Hudson is at .815 and has never been above .853 in his career (which was in 2005).

    FYI RZR is a zone rating statistic that basically measures the range of a player. Ellis is by far the best ranging 2B in either league.

  241. Al from BK June 11th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    Im not a fan of Ellis bat although he looked good last night, Ellis has a low career OBP .339 and hes hitting in the .240s this year.

  242. Patrick (the good one) June 11th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    “Im not a fan of Ellis bat although he looked good last night, Ellis has a low career OBP .339 and hes hitting in the .240s this year.”

    True, Hudson is much better with the bat than Ellis

  243. BBB June 11th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

    Nah, I wouldn’t deal Betances. I would do Tabata, Cano and someone like Horne or Marquez.

  244. yeah June 11th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

    yanks should part with both hughes and kennedy, they dont have the toughness to make it at this level

  245. yankee believer June 11th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

    An everyday (possibly proven) 2b under contract for the next several years and prospects for a play once every 5 days half-year rental pitcher? Am I missing something? Um maybe, maybe if CC pitches like randy for houston circa 98.

  246. Doreen June 11th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    For anyone comparing Sabathia to Wells (favorably), I would just say, how did Wells hold up in the 2002 playoffs?

  247. Jeter2007 June 11th, 2008 at 6:42 pm

    whoever trades for cc this deadline would be dumb not to ask for an extension as part of the trade

    i wouldnt trade to have him for half a year

  248. Jorge Steinbrenner (the long lost third brother) June 11th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    a rental is completely out of the question here. for what purpose?

    if we happen to find ourselves in reach of winning a championship at some point, then we should get the reinforcements we need, without mortgaging the farm, to help get us there.

    i’m sorry, though…..i’m not gunning for another first-round loss. i’d rather concentrate on continuing to build a more solid team for years to come.

    whoever questioned SJ and said you don’t make trades based on what the Red Sox do is exactly right. you make trades to be ahead of 29 other teams, not one.

    i’d try to trade low on CC and get a contract window. i’d also rather take my chances in the off-season. if someone else gets him, then it just makes our job of keeping ahead in the long run a bit more challenging, but not impossible. thank god we pay guys like Cashman and Oppenheimer to do exactly that sort of thing.

  249. rconn23 June 11th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    For C.C, I’d give up Kennedy and either Cox or Robertson along with Tabata.

    And that’s as good as it would get. And any deal goes no more than 5 years.

  250. Ian_Kennedy_rulez June 11th, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    Nothing involving Kennedy please. He might be struggling now but he’s still going to be a superstar!!

  251. Yawn June 11th, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    c’mon pete, give me a break. you’re always jumping on players more than even the most emotional of the ban wagoning yanks fans at times. trade cano? and giving up on melky as well? melky was the only one hitting when no one else, and now that god for bid he hit a slump (which i think he’s turning around…) you jump all over him? but early in the season when EVERYONE else was slumping you just say it’s early? c’mon pete, you’re better than that.

  252. Kevin June 11th, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    “yanks should part with both hughes and kennedy, they dont have the toughness to make it at this level”

    Greg Maddux, age 20: 2-4, 5.52 ERA, 1.774 WHIP
    Greg Maddux, age 21: 6-14, 5.61 ERA, 1.638 WHIP

    Believe it or not, players get better as they age, especially when they are currently 20-22. Not to say either will become Maddux, but JEEZ.

    Did Hughes not have the toughness last year when he was 5-3 with a 4.46 ERA, a 2-to-1 K-BB ratio and a 1.28 WHIP? At age freakin’ 21?

  253. K.V.C June 11th, 2008 at 8:11 pm

    I believe Arod once told someone that Cano could go all the way to the HOF, or he could blow out and drop out of baseball, he was 50/50. Why does everyone expect Cano to “snap back into form”? He got his money, no one on the coaching staff is riding his a$$ anymore, and he is falling like a rock. Plus then they could move Jeter to second and maybe he could throw the ball all the way to first!

    All the haters of 300+ pound guys, David Wells held up pretty well into his 30s. (2002 was Joe’s fault)

  254. Frank Marco June 11th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    C.C. Sabathia is having an awful season so far. His arm is probably tired from throwing 240+ innings last year. there’s no way I even think about trading any starters (Cano) for him.

  255. Frank Marco June 11th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    cano is more than a prospect at this point, he is a proven hitter, and an allstar second baseman.

    (even though he’s been alful at the plate so far this year)

  256. RedSoxFanDan June 11th, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    i really see no need in the redsox going after CC OTHER than to drive the yankees to giving up kennedy/hughes+others. i hate to say it but the two will be great someday. maybe not now. but it’ll look like the rays with kazmir and shields. Wang is an astounding pitcher, and i dont really know much about the other minor leaguers like rasner and giese. but if the redsox would have a shot at him, the deal would have to be along the lines of Masterson, Bard, Lowrie, and possibly Brandon Moss, or Coco, PLUS CASH although where would Coco or Brandon play? the yankees would have to give up at least 3 of their top ten prospects, and a top 20 prospect. i’d say Alan Horne, Jose Tabata, Melky Cabrera/Brett Gardener/Hideki Matsui (i heard the yankees could trade him, bring up gardener, and put Damon in left, thats why i throw him in) and Zach McCallister for CC and Beau Mills. gives the yankees an ace pitcher, and the Indians third best prospect who plays 1b

  257. mike June 11th, 2008 at 11:02 pm

    trading cano is so stupid that is the dumbest thing ive evrer heard

  258. Jon June 12th, 2008 at 12:50 am

    How about trading Matsui,Kennedy and a prospect?

  259. Joe OD June 12th, 2008 at 1:03 am

    I hope none of you guys that want to trade for Sabathia are the same ones who were against trading for Santana. Sabathia is on pace to be 400 lbs by the time his next contract runs out. The guy to trade for is that of Erik Bedard(if available). I wouldn’t give up Cano for either Sabathia or Bedard though. Cano is going to win a batting crown in the near future as well as solidify the three hole in the Yankees’ batting order once Abreu is gone.

  260. steve June 12th, 2008 at 6:58 am

    so if we give away three prospects, do we have enough to trade for matt holiday?

  261. Willy June 12th, 2008 at 7:42 am

    When are Yankees fan going to realize they have to rebuild? They are NOT contenders, but pretenders.

  262. Roy White June 12th, 2008 at 8:36 am

    Willy,

    The Yanks will contend. We will buy CC (of course trading some studs for him as well.)

    We win because we outspend.

    $225 million payroll here we come.

    p.s. Have faith in Cano. He will hit.

  263. Chazz Michael Michaels June 12th, 2008 at 9:27 am

    I don’t want any part of this guy. He’s bloated…the contract he’ll want is bloated…his ERA is bloated….and he stunk in the playoffs against the Sox last year. Last thing the Yanks need is another 6×120 mil disaster!!!

    I agree the Yankees DO need to make trades though. However, if prospects are going to be dealt, deal them for guys like Cain, Sanchez, Greinke, Kuo, Bedard, Marte, Fuentes and Holliday. Trade youngER guys for young guys with high ceilings and years left on the tires. (and their contracts!)

  264. tribefan June 12th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    it fine we’ll just trade him to the red sox

  265. Larry June 12th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    As an Indians fan, CC Sabathia WILL get traded before the trading deadline. His contract is up with the Indians after this season and he has insisted that he not do contract negotiations during the season, which basically is telling the Indians to trade him or let him walk. The Yankees I could see most helping the Indians are Robinson Cano (the Indians desperately need help at 2nd base after the failed Josh Barfield experiment) and maybe at 3rd base (not gonna happen, the Yankees won’t trade A-Rod or Betemit), and you have to get a pitcher in return, so a good 3 or 4 starter would be good to work behind Carmona and Lee. I would do this trade in a heartbeat because it could mean letting a Cy Young winner walk without anything in return.

  266. RICH June 12th, 2008 at 1:08 pm

    How can the Yankees afford to trade Cano when offense is their problem? Who is going to play 2nd?

  267. joe June 12th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    I guess A guy from Buffalo should chime in .Cleveland’s cupboard is bare, their farm system is empty. they have a huge hole at 2b. Cano is a wild swinger who beats up bad pitching. trade him and a outfielder, Cleveland does have 2 or 3 pitching prospects. And get your self a horse. No team wins without pitching. Teams that aren’t supposed to win ,do with pitching. But pitching is such a guess that teams go up or down one year to the next ie, detroit with Bonderman,Rogers and that one year wonder bullpen.
    Get pitching play Betimit at 2b and go for it.

  268. Bill June 12th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    If you had to rank a package in the winter of Hughes, Melky & a third tier pitching prospect vs. Cano, Bettances, and Tabata, how many of us would have said the Hughes package was the tougher to swallow?

    Cano has certainly had his problems this season, Bettances is a ways off and still a question, and Tabata has had his maturity issues, but trading these guys now is selling them when their value is near its lowest. I don’t think anyone should be untouchable but that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

    As far as CC goes, you have to kick the tires both at the trade deadline and at free agency. I’m not sure though that with his weight issues, I’d really be all that comfortable doing an expensive long term deal with him. Seems risky to me, especially if you have to give up a bunch of talent to rent him for a few months. I’m not saying you don’t do it, but it all depends how close we are at deadline, what the trade demands are, and what we view as the cost of signing him in years and dollars.

    While we are throwing names out there, do you kick the tires on Magglio Ordonez if the Tigers decide they are out of the race and need to retool their farm system?

  269. gmoney454 June 12th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Hughes would have to be part of the deal to land CC. The Tribe also needs a 2B. Therefore, I could see the Yanks dealing Hughes + Cano for CC + Barfield. Some lower level prospects may also be part of a deal. This could get done heading into the trade deadline in July.

  270. sfochild June 12th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    okay, i think that many of you have misconstrued how the yankees won all those ws rings late 90s. yes they developed great talents ie Jorge Jeter Pettitte. but also we traded for good veteran pitching ie david cone, roger clemens(hate as much as you want, he was a big help to us in those championship years) now, im not saying that cc is “the” guy, but really, i think that he would really help out our team. there are certain combos that i would not do, but i think that petes first suggestion would be good, and i liked the chinese menu type thing as well for people saying no tabatas too talented, one hes not a sure thing. no one is. hes a talented kid but he might not make it to the show. also, you have to give talent to get talent

  271. Chad DiVincenzo June 12th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

    im from cleveland and im not saying throw in the towel now but if i can get cano and some prospects for cc i do it in a heart beat we have no second baseman to speak of and we get a valuable piece in cano i do it if we are out of contention

  272. Wes June 12th, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    As an Indians fan… Hughes must be part of the deal. They were willing to throw him in with Santana so Shapiro will want Hughes or no deal.

    C.C. for Hughes, Tabata, and nearly anyone else and you have a deal. I would love for Jackson or Brackman to be a part of this, but that isn’t happening. If Hughes is untouchable in the eyes of Cashman and Steinbrenner then Jackson, Montero, or Brackman must be included in some way shape or form to get Shapiro to bite.

    This could end up being a war too between the Dodgers, Red Sox, and Yankees. The Indians could really get something special out of a C.C. deal near the deadline. Personally I like what the Yankees have to offer myself unless the Red Sox are giving up 2-3 of their top tier prospects (Masterson, Middlebrooks, Anderson, Buchholz, Bowden, or Kalish)

  273. Wes June 12th, 2008 at 10:21 pm

    A earlier comment was made about C.C.’s ERA being bloated. Has anyone learned that stats don’t tell the truth. Check out C.C. over his last 11 games… only one word comes to mind…dominant. He doesn’t get the run support and ends up losing 1-0 or 2-1 decisions.

    His playoff record last year wasn’t good, but many pitchers that have had tremendous success in the playoffs pitched poorly in their first trip to the playoffs.

  274. mang June 12th, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    you new york fans just dont get it, the indians arent just gonna give you sabathia its gonna take a big deal. the red sox will want him and you know the stein isnt just going to let that happen, shapiro is a shark he will get you for all your worth. the deal will be cano, hughes, cabrera. and one more thing great series last year in the playoff. indians payroll=64 million, yankees=200+ lol we ate your lunch as your roid head roget clemens likes to say.

  275. mang June 12th, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    you new york fans just dont get it, the indians arent just gonna give you sabathia its gonna take a big deal. the red sox will want him and you know the stein isnt just going to let that happen, shapiro is a shark he will get you for all your worth. the deal will be cano, hughes, cabrera. and one more thing great series last year in the playoff. indians payroll=64 million, yankees=200+ lol we ate your lunch as your roid head roget clemens likes to say.

  276. gianthinker June 13th, 2008 at 2:18 am

    How about Melky Cabrera, Ian Kennedy, Eric Duncan, Kei Igawa, Chris Britton for CC? I’d do that deal.

  277. LOU June 13th, 2008 at 10:40 am

    To the “informed individual” who claims CC has “pitched like crap in his walk year” I would suggest he look at the run support he was given in his losses before he runs off at the mouth. Opinions are fine when based on real world facts.

  278. Tribe Fan June 13th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

    The Indians don’t want the Yankees junk. They need a big bat for their lineup. A-Rod or Manny!!!

  279. Dave June 26th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

    Guys,
    The Yanks can’t trade Melky or Cano. Both of them are starting progress and they both are capable of Multi-All-Star Seasons.

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