Pitching matchups for the Astros series
Posted by: Peter Abraham - Posted in Misc on Jun 13, 2008 
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Tonight: RHP Joba Chamberlain (1-2, 2.67) vs. RHP Shawn Chacon (2-2, 4.96), 8:05 (EDT), Channel 9
Tomorrow: RHP Mike Mussina (9-4, 3.22) vs. LHP Wandy Rodriguez (2-2, 1.99), 7:05 (EDT), YES
Sunday: RHP Chien-Ming Wang (7-2, 4.30) vs. RHP Roy Oswalt (5-6, 5.04), 2:05 (EDT), YES
———–
Getting on a flight to Houston in six hours, so there won’t be much blogging for a while, probably not until the lineup gets posted before the game.
Still have a soft spot for Chacon. Hoping Joba the Heat gets us the win, though.
Going to be tough for us to beat a decent lefty on Saturday and follow that up with a win against Ace Oswalt on Sunday. Nice to take 2/3.
The Yankees will sweep.
Chacon should be an easy win. Of course we have him in great memory, he was huge for us. Still, we can probably score some runs here. Let’s hope Joba doesn’t need em, but it’s gonna make it easier. Yankees have okay numbers against Chacon…
Wandy is going to be tough. But I’m sure Moose can keep us in the game, although some of them have seen him. And it’s gonna be a pain to see Miguel Tejada again, he owns the Yankees.
The only guys who have seen Wandy are Chad Moeller (8AB) and Wilson Betemit (1AB). They haven’t done well.
Let’s hope Wang is back to his old self and we should be fine. The Astros haven’t faced him a lot. The guys who did see him faired pretty well though (Tejada, Wigginton, Loretta). And they’ve got another sinker ball near them – Brandon Webb. But CMW has been pretty versatile lately.
Luckily for us Oswalt is having kind of an off-year so far. I have even dropped him from my fantasy team. He was good in his last game (1ER) and has had 7 quality starts in the 9 games before that. BUT he has allowed 3ER in each of those.
On top of that, most of the Yankees that’ve seen him haven’t done well. But A-Rod is 3/5 with a 2B and a HR.
So a much needed series win is a must!
“Going to be tough for us to beat a decent lefty on Saturday and follow that up with a win against Ace Oswalt on Sunday. Nice to take 2/3.”
Check out the ace’s ERA. He’s not been himself this season.
Hope Wang can get better and better, God bless him.
Im just excited to see Joba bat tonight since he “claims” he is a good hitter.
First off, I’m glad the Yanks got a win… but I’d be lying if I said I still don’t have concerns about the anemic offense. The 4 runs from Matsui’s hit was great, but the fact that no one else produced a run is disconcerting. Thankfully, Pettite found his former self. Hopefully, it’s something he can build upon.
Anytime a team wins 2 of 3 on the road it’s a plus but splitting or losing a series at home doesn’t get playoff fever.
The Yankees home record of 18-15 speaks volumes.
really need to beat chacon tonight. wandy rodriguez at home is a tough draw, and oswalt has returned to form his last few outings. oswwalt wen 7 with 10K, 5H, 1R the other night vs. milwaukee. most of that high era is from some very bad outings early in the season.
Enron is a RH hitter’s park, so arod and posada are going to need to come through. arod has only had 1 HR in 32 career AB’s there.
“but I’d be lying if I said I still don’t have concerns about the anemic offense.”
Well, that’s what happens when your last three batters make outs 70% of the time or more. Cano and Melky are really killing the offense, as is Jeter’s inability to get on base. Or drive the ball AT ALL. Bobby too, to a lesser extent.
i’m just glad the Yankees are back in a time zone where i can watch the games again.
mid-week west coast trips suck.
Wonder if Clemens will visit the clubhouse?
whozat…you mean 75%, because 70% defines an allstar.
“whozat…you mean 75%, because 70% defines an allstar.”
Nope. An OBP of .300 does not define an all-star. It’s terrible.
Can’t imagine Clemens will have the stones to visit the ballpark but might meet a few of his former mates at a restaurant.
Chris Smith Update
Either he’s soon going to be drawing a paycheck as a New York Yankees farmhand or on his way to USC where he’s given a verbal commitment to the baseball program.
As a fifth-round pick of the Yankees in last week’s Major League Baseball first-year player draft, Smith should be able to command fairly good money.
But if he doesn’t, the Trojans await in the spring.
But a left-handed hitter the caliber of the young outfielder may be difficult for New York to let get away.
Chris Smith update
Here’s Nom– interview w/ Patrick Ebert
LM: The legend of Chris Smith. 708. Compton coaches say he’s in the same class as Coco Crisp, Darryl Strawberry, and Eric Davis coming out of that area. What is the truth about the kid?
PE: Smith isn’t the athlete that Strawberry and Davis were and that Crisp still is. He has shown very good hit tools, with exciting power potential, but he’s a big question mark because he hasn’t shown what he can do by participating in some of the top showcase and tournament events from across the country. He obviously had a huge spring, and even then entered the spring as one of the top 200-300 overall high school players in the nation. Basically, while the sky is the limit for this young man he does remain somewhat of an enigma.
I did some asking around for feedback on Chris to people in LA, you know people that watched him play.
here’s a couple of things I found out.
A poster from LA posted some additional info on Chris Smith on MVN here’s what he saids about Chris.
Quote: “I’ve seen Chris play many times. The guy is the real deal as an athlete. You should also note that he had 24 steals in 26 attempts. His speed is amazing, probably 6.6 in the 60 or so. Tremendous power as well. Extremely gifted all around athlete, started as QB for Centennial. The downside is that he is extremely raw and Centennial didn’t play many of the strong southern California schools. With better schooling he would definitely be a first round pick.”
2nd Poster claims he is a Cali. H.S. coach that witnessed Chris
Quote: “im a local high school baseball coach in southern california, and my school plays in the same league as centennial where chris played. let me tell you, this guy is L-E-G-I-T, unbelievable talent, he was a man among boys, the 1st league we played him he struck out in his first at bat, that was the first time he struck out all year. The 2nd league game we played him he hit a homerun in his first at bat, his 2nd time up, he hit a grand slam, looking back on it i should have walked him with the bases loaded. He fast, has incredible bat speed. His numbers maybe be a little inflaited because his coach schedules games for some reason against really weak opponents (rolling hills prep), but it doesnt matter, this guy can hit anybody. we tried to pitch him up and in, yanked it over right, down and away, shot it into the left field corner. Best high school hitter i have ever seen. Dude absolutely RAKES.”
the legend grows…
Hit a HR Joba….anything less…disappointment.
The first matchup looks good for us. The next 2… ouch. Who is this Wandy Rodriguez? 1.99 ERA LHP? Sure am glad we have Rodriguez and Posada back.
Oswalt, ouch. Not a great year.
tonight will be the first start that will give some idea of where joba is at as far as starting.
is he a baseball prodigy who can be really good immediately with so little experience or just a talented raw rookie with really good stuff?
there are a lot of implications for the team depending which one he is.
Lets offer Cano and Kennedy to the Mets for Reyes. Put Reyes at second for now. Matsui is the MVP right now. Everyone on the blog early on was talking about dumping or trading Matsui, Giambi, and Damon. Meanwhile those three have been their best offensive players lately. This weekend is big
Yes, because of the iron law of baseball: when you take a rookie starting pitcher and use him in the bullpen at the end of a season and then start him in the bullpen at the beginning of the next season and then convert him to the rotation with a larger pitch count for each game, the 3rd start shall be the start that gives some idea of where he is as far as starting — especially if that start comes during interleague play.
So it is written, so it shall be done!
“is he a baseball prodigy who can be really good immediately with so little experience or just a talented raw rookie with really good stuff?”
and, he’ll be doing it against a very potent offense. it’ll be fun to watch Jorge help navigate Joba thru this batting order.
I don’t think tonight will show exactly what Joba is able to do. He is still making the transition to starter, and I expect speed bumps along the way. I agree though, that this will give us a better feel for how he can do. The shortened starts so far don’t really let us know what he is capable of.
“The first matchup looks good for us. The next 2… ouch. Who is this Wandy Rodriguez? 1.99 ERA LHP? Sure am glad we have Rodriguez and Posada back.”
Rodriguez is two different pitchers home and away. Unfortunately, it’s at home that he goes all Koufax. 0.25 ERA over 4 starts so far this year (ERA is 4+ on the road). Last year he posted a sub 3 ERA in Houston and a 6+ ERA on the road.
lets offer Cano and Kennedy to the Mets for Reyes and put Reyes at second
Matsui Damon and Giambi were three players people on the blog wanted traded or released and these guys are the most potent offensive guys they have
How good or bad is Houston’s offense?
“tonight will be the first start that will give some idea of where joba is at as far as starting.”
Jury will still be out no matter what happens. Stros are not a very good offense and with the DH’less lineup, this probably isn’t the best measure. If Joba pitches to contact a little and stays out of high counts, I think he can get six solid innings. I’m just not confident he can stay out of high counts.
‘How good or bad is Houston’s offense?”
Fair. Berkman is a tremendous hitter and Pence and Tejada are pretty good too. Not much beyond that though.
Joba’s start tonight will be the sample size of one, just like any other one game.
Well Wandy Rodriguez is a LHP that use to struggle for Houston all the sudden in 2008 he cut out the cutter and slider out of his arsenal and now he’ pitching above his head.
Wandy’s current arsenal
fastball 64% of the time sits 88.6 MPH
Curveball 30.4% of the time sits 74.6 MPH
Changeup 5.4% of the time sits 83.8 MPH
Tonight is the third start for Joba and being that Randy l has a 3 start rule for rookies I guess in Randy’s myopic point of view tonight is the end all be all for Joba.
Luckily Randy l is not Brian C and Joba will not be taken out of the rotation regardless of how he pitches this evening.
In regards to the so called “anemic” offense. Oakland has the second best staff in the league. As a team they give up less than 4 runs a game. And yet the Yankees somehow, someway still managed to win the series.
Also despite not having A-Rod and Posada for many games this year the team is still fifth in the league in runs per games and the two teams directly ahead of them have only scored 2 and 7 runs more than the Yankees respectively.
Maybe I’m just a super duper positive Yankee fan but something tells me that more of Rodriguez and Posada will eventually move them up on the runs scored list.
“and, he’ll be doing it against a very potent offense. it’ll be fun to watch Jorge help navigate Joba thru this batting order.”
I thought they were playing the Astros. Nothing potent about them. 1 outstanding bat and two good ones. Little else. They are not 9th in the NL in scoring by accident.
Opps. Forgot Carlos Lee. He’s obviously an impact bat. 5 easy outs in the lineup, but 4 good to very good bats as well.
“Berkman is a tremendous hitter”
Seriously. It kind of sucks for him that he can have the year he’s having and STILL get overshadowed.
It’s sad to hear that Chipper’s playing hurt a bit.
Two points I’d like to make –
1. raymagnetic is right, the Yanks STILL are in the thick of it. Yeah, the W-L and standings are not what we’d like, but with just under 100 games to go, they can rally and get it going. I’m not ignoring the problems that have been laid out in great detail by others, and which we are all familiar. But there is no inherent reason why they can’t turn it around.
By the way, it is this very difficulty in writing off the season that makes it difficult for Cash to make some of the decisions that he is facing. He can’t exclusively work for 2009 and beyond at this point, and ignore the very real possibility of a playoff spot this year. So, he’s got to integrate the two agendas. Not an easy job.
2. If anyone would like a nice, and quick, baseball read, go to Typer Kepner’s blog and read about old Yankee catcher Charlie Silvera.
Have a good day everyone.
“Little else.”
Yah. And Ausmus and Bourne are WORTHLESS at the plate. Matsui’s a slap hitter. Wiggy’s good against lefties, not anything special against righties. I’d like to get him for the Yanks, though, to replace Shelley. Then bring up a middle IFer to replace Moeller.
How good or bad is Houston’s offense?
Overall
212 out of thier 306 runs are scored w/ RISP
12th out of 30 in BA w/ RISP
They are 10th in SLG % in June, 8th in BA both w/ RISP, although they are weak in OBP %, so throw strikes is the advice for Joba.
“I guess in Randy’s myopic point of view tonight is the end all be all for Joba.”
i think all he was getting at was that now that his pitch count is finally up to about what a normal start would be, around 90+ pitches or so, we’ll get the best look so far at what kind of starts we can reasonably expect from Joba.
i dont think he was saying what he is tonight is what he’ll be for his career.
Good call Whozat. Wiggy would be a nice add because of his flexibility and righthandedness. Unlike everyone who currently calls the Yankees’ bench home, he is a competent major league hitter.
Houston also likes to run, a lot. Heck, even Berkman’s stealing bases.
Hey, uh, randy – how about Livan Hernandez?
“Good call Whozat. Wiggy would be a nice add because of his flexibility and righthandedness.”
Someone else pointed him out the other day; I read on the Astros site that he got benched for some reason too, for a couple days. Some kind of punitive thing from Cooper. Not sure why. But, maybe he’s falling out of favor over there and could be got. They have Blum and Loretta, so they might not even require a 3B in the trade. Though we could certainly send Betemit
I am a bit late on this comment but yesterdays Met loss made me EXTREMELY happy.
Good call Whozat. Wiggy would be a nice add because of his flexibility and righthandedness. Unlike everyone who currently calls the Yankees’ bench home, he is a competent major league hitter.
Wiggy isn’t even the best option utility available, he’s good but lets not make him into this king of swing.
“Houston also likes to run, a lot. Heck, even Berkman’s stealing bases.”
Hm. Then FB command will definitely be the watchword. And use that curve judiciously. He dropped it in for strikes at will against the royals. I liked that. But you definitely want to establish the FB.
“Wiggy isn’t even the best option utility available, he’s good but lets not make him into this king of swing.”
I don’t think anyone IS. We said he was a competent major league bat that is probably gettable.
Who is the “best option utility available”?
Someone else pointed him out the other day; I read on the Astros site that he got benched for some reason too, for a couple days. Some kind of punitive thing from Cooper. Not sure why. But, maybe he’s falling out of favor over there and could be got. They have Blum and Loretta, so they might not even require a 3B in the trade. Though we could certainly send Betemit
I’d like a Lorreta
Win or lose, unless its a blow out against the Yankees, I think this will be a fun game to watch. Seeing Joba pitch deeper (I hope) in the game, and seeing him batting, might be a lot of fun. We will see if he can hit as well as he thinks he can.
V:
Houston’s stolen bases are largely from two sources. Bourn and Matsui. Bourn has been massively unsuccessful getting on base of late. As the old adage goes, you can’t steal 1st.
Who is the “best option utility available�
Bill Hall, Ryan Freel, Jerry Hairston Jr. there are a few more.
“Wandy Rodriguez”—- Pronouncing a name like that is Suzyn Waldman’s worst nightmare!
Tecnically this is his third start, but only his first real chance to give you starter’s innings. Any “clock” or “watch” should actually begin tonight.
Who’s the best utility option available?
Miguel Cairo! He had a key role in a win over Boston last week.
“Wandy Rodriguezâ€â€”- Pronouncing a name like that is Suzyn Waldman’s worst nightmare!
She could just say oh my goodness gracious
mel let miggy be. I don’t want him back at all.
Yankees are within one reasonable hot streak of being a game or two out of first.
“Bill Hall, Ryan Freel, Jerry Hairston Jr. there are a few more.”
Freel and Hairston are DL’d. I don’t like Hall as much as Wigginton. Besides, Hall will piss and moan when he doesn’t play everyday (like he did before Weeks got hurt).
“Yankees are within one reasonable hot streak of being a game or two out of first.”
Not without a Boston cold streak, they aren’t.
“I’d like a Lorreta”
Why? He’s less of a hitter than Wiggy. And, besides…we’re not looking for a utility guy here. We’re looking for a righty 1B option that can double as something of a utility guy.
It might ALSO be useful to look for a more true UT guy like Freel.
And I know you’re enamored of Hall, but he’s not a good defender and has been hitting like crap this year. And Hairston is playing WAAAAAAAY over his head.
I’d like to trade for Wiggy and Freel. Wiggy and Loretta’d be ok.
“Miguel Cairo! He had a key role in a win over Boston last week.”
You HAVE to be kidding.
Think Santana wishes that Rivera was his closer instead of Wagner?
He’s only got 5 blown saves, but it seems like more because they’re very recent.
Santana to his credit said that he trusts every single guy on the team.
Jeez, relax guys. I was running with the running joke. But I’d rather have Cairo, than listen to you guys bitch about Wilson all day long.
I’d REALLY be upset ( again ) if the Yankees found a way to lose with Joba facing Chacon….Here’s hoping for tonight’s game starting a double digit winning streak….we are DUE !
Why? He’s less of a hitter than Wiggy. And, besides…we’re not looking for a utility guy here. We’re looking for a righty 1B option that can double as something of a utility guy.
Are you serious Whozat ?
RISP
vs LHB .000/.300/.000
vs RHB .111/.292/.167
he’s not even listed at 1B that role belongs to Erstad and Berkman
It might ALSO be useful to look for a more true UT guy like Freel.
I agree.
And I know you’re enamored of Hall, but he’s not a good defender and has been hitting like crap this year. And Hairston is playing WAAAAAAAY over his head.
Isn’t the goal here to get someone who is getting the job done ? Also under the radar ? that would fit Jerry Hairston Jr. perfectly. As for Hall his swagger would make him a key guy here. Also remember he’s more upset about the losing.
I’d like to trade for Wiggy and Freel. Wiggy and Loretta’d be ok.
Freel and Loretta I like, not Wiggy.
Hey Mel,
Of course I was happy with the result of Lakers/C’s game last night, but I also know anything is possible and realize that the series is not over yet.
Jeez, relax guys. I was running with the running joke. But I’d rather have Cairo, than listen to you guys bitch about Wilson all day long.
mel you want us to bitch about Cairo too
“i dont think he was saying what he is tonight is what he’ll be for his career.”
Turntwo,
Randy has expressed before that rookie pitchers have 3 starts to prove their worth.
According to the NY Daily News, Venditte will be playing in Staten Island this summer.
A righty starter/reliever and a lefty specialist for the pen all wrapped into one. It would be like having a 26 man roster.
ray,
I’m over it now. There’s nothing I could of done about it. Of course I’m hoping for a better result on Sunday.
Brandon,
You could never do that. And he was solid. Incapable of hitting a HR, but he always did what was asked of him. Like someone said earlier-the bench is not the problem. It’s the Melk-Can duo.
Would be nice to see some speed on the bench (Gardner). Any chance we’ll see Duncan against the lefty? Hmm…
gotcha, ray. well then that is a little silly.
man, brandon, you are consistently one of the worst posters that I’ve seen on any Yankees blog.
mel,
miguel cairo is one of the very worst players in the entire major leagues. he sucks. be glad he’s not around.
man, brandon, you are consistently one of the worst posters that I’ve seen on any Yankees blog.
Really I can think of someone worse
j-
Who the heck are you?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06.....eball.html
Anyone tried the food at SF, Seattle, or Philly? The Ichiroll sounds good. NYT writer checked out ballpark food. Mmmm.
Went to the game last night, Matsushi hit a seed, nice to seem some vintage Pettitte too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06.....eball.html
Buddy-
Check out this article. The “Ichiroll” looks especially good. (The Primanti Bros sandwich, too) But AT&T or whatever it’s called now got the biggest thumbs up.
Wow. Can’t link the NYT.
Buddy-
In the baseball section of the NYT there’s an article by the travel writer who visited the parks to eat.
The SF park (AT&T?) got rave reviews and apparently the “Ichiroll” @ Seattle was good, too.
mel-
Yeah I read that. I was walking around last night watching everyone stuff their faces like it was their last meal or something. Their is section at the A’s park where it’s all you can eat, & it’s really popular.
I don’t get it.
Man, I hope we whoop Chacon. I’ll always remember fondly what he did for us in 2005, but then when the going got tough he kind of turned out to be a little punk iirc…talking back to Torre and the coaches, etc. He’s no Aaron Small in my book, that’s for sure.
I just hope the Yankee pitchers are not stubborn in this series the way they were last wkd. with Guillen. And what I mean by that is, don’t let Berkman beat you! Walk him, pitch around him like other teams do to ARod, its not that hard!
anyway, despite the lack of offense save for that one great inning, good game last night. I feel good about going into Oakland and taking 2 out of 3, and am especially encouraged by solid starts from both Wang and Andy. Baseball is based on rythym and now that the offense sees the top 2 starters showing up, hopefully we will get some kind of hot streak going.
Possible Sabathia to Yanks article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06.....ref=slogin
may be old news.
“i think all he was getting at was that now that his pitch count is finally up to about what a normal start would be, around 90+ pitches or so, we’ll get the best look so far at what kind of starts we can reasonably expect from Joba.”
turn two-
thank you.
this is the first game he has some sort of base down for starting.
earlier in the year, one of the main reasons for starting joba was to have a starter in the playoffs who could shut down other teams. backers of joba to the rotation used this argument often.
if joba is going to be that guy, we should see some indication over his next 5-6 starts. if we don’t, then it’s not likely he’s going to happen for this year that he’s going to be a difference maker as a starter for the playoffs.
i’m hoping he is going to be that difference maker because i’d like to see #27 this year.
MLBtraderumors.com -
“Yankees-Sabathia Chatter
Tyler Kepner of the New York Times believes Victor Martinez’s injury “will probably lead to a trade of the ace left-hander C.C. Sabathia.” He says the Yankees will have “strong interest” if Sabathia becomes available. Kepner also expects the Cubs and Red Sox to be in the mix.
As for a return, Kepner suggests the Yankees could match the Indians’ needs of pitching and infield help. He does not see Robinson Cano as a possibility, though.
According to Baseball America, the Yankees have three Top 100 prospects aside from Joba Chamberlain: Jose Tabata (#37), Austin Jackson (#41), and Ian Kennedy (#45). Others on the fringe of the Top 100 when BA compiled the rankings in March: Alan Horne, Jeff Marquez, and Jesus Montero. Some of these players have seen their stock drop, however. What do you think it’d take to get a deal done?”
L Hernandez, Randy let’s talk about it. We heard from you after his strong start what do you have to say now . I guess we should be happy the cash didn’t sign him
looks like Kepner is a couple days behind in the discussion thats been had on yanks sites already…
randy, sure… i agree with you in that sense.
None. And I buy him in the offseason.
“looks like Kepner is a couple days behind in the discussion thats been had on yanks sites already…”
Well, I knew Sabathia was a possible trade target by the deadline but didn’t realize the ramifications of Martinez’s injury.
“but didn’t realize the ramifications of Martinez’s injury.”
and injury aside, he’s been brutally bad with the bat this season…
we think we’re frustrated as yankees fans with Cano, but just think what they’re feeling in Cleveland after watching Pronk and Martinez this year.
Perhaps Rasner could be a big piece in getting us Sabathia?
Wow, yea his slugging went down a lot. Is still hitting .278 though (not very good OBP either) but better than Cano.
Rasner? I don’t think a cast off pickup like Rasner will get the job done. Let’s use our noggin’s for a sec here. Hypothetically, if Joba came off a Cy Young season going 22-4 and we were to trade him… would you accept a Rasner?
no name-
just for you.
“Hey, uh, randy – how about Livan Hernandez?”
v
you mean the guy whose team has won 10 of his 14 starts?
how’s hughes and kennedy doing?
“turn two-
thank you.
this is the first game he has some sort of base down for starting.
earlier in the year, one of the main reasons for starting joba was to have a starter in the playoffs who could shut down other teams. backers of joba to the rotation used this argument often.
if joba is going to be that guy, we should see some indication over his next 5-6 starts. if we don’t, then it’s not likely he’s going to happen for this year that he’s going to be a difference maker as a starter for the playoffs.
i’m hoping he is going to be that difference maker because i’d like to see #27 this year.”
Randy,
This is all well and good but that’s not what you’ve said previously.
You’ve said that you would give him along with the other young pitchers 3 starts to prove their worth.
Don’t make me go all stalker on you and search for your past posts.
Let’s all remember the rule here – if both sides aren’t hurting after the deal, then someone didn’t do their job. IF the indians are indeed shopping CC, it’s going to hurt to get him.
One of the main reasons for starting Joba is that he’s a starting pitcher! Is his third start since the transition begun going to tell us whether he can/will be a shutdown playoff starter during his career?
I must go golf now. Go Yanks!
Nick you lucky sob.
When did Victor Martinez get injured? And just yesterday I was thinking that Cleveland could still make a run for the AL Central this season…
cleveland is an interesting team to watch because they looked like they had all the pieces in order to become a dominant team. they went young, seemed progressive, and signed up a lot of guys, and somehow it’s not turned out the way they thought it would.
if the yankees are trying to go down a similar road it would be a good idea to see what’s worked for cleveland and what hasn’t.
before you even start talking a sabbathia trade, you have to find out if he’s open to signing a long term deal during the season or whether he intends to become a free agent.
if he is open to a multi year deal, the starting bid will likely be 6 years and $130M.
if he’s not, what are you willing to pay for a rent-a-player?
until you know that, you dont know his value to the team
and then there’s the question of whether you go 6 years for a pitcher.
randy: I scapegoat Hafner for Cleveland’s offensive woes
Cleveland can pitch…or, uh, could, as they’ve been shelled recently. Their offense is picking up, but it was dead during their fine pitching.
i keep hearing how much martinez is hurting the indians, but hafner is absolutly killing them. hes done absolutly nothing since last asb and now he’s on the dl
“Rasner? I don’t think a cast off pickup like Rasner will get the job done. Let’s use our noggin’s for a sec here. Hypothetically, if Joba came off a Cy Young season going 22-4 and we were to trade him… would you accept a Rasner?”
It depends – if Joba was 28, had the wear and tear of an innings-eating pitcher for 7.5 seasons, was a few months from free agency and was projected to command around $19-20million for his next long-term contract, then I don’t see why Rasner couldn’t be a significant piece of the trade.
I didn’t say just Rasner would get the deal done but he is a piece. He has proven this year he can pitch in the majors (very well thus far) and the Indians need pitching.
Y’s Guy – not to be cocky but I don’t see why Sabathia wouldn’t pass up free agency to sign a long-term contract with the best team in sports if they gave him enough $.
It would be nice to return to New York with Oswalt on the plane.
“v
you mean the guy whose team has won 10 of his 14 starts?
how’s hughes and kennedy doing?”
So -that’s- the measure of a good pitcher? Team won his starts? Not even wins, himself, even if he gives up 10 runs a game, as long as his team wins, he’s successful?
I see a guy that can either keep his team in the game or absolutely get demolished. Thanks, but no thanks.
He’ll end the season with an ERA north of 5.00. Book it
True Russell, but I don’t think it’s in the form of Rasner. It would probably be more like IPK, Horne, Melancon, Cox or someone with a higher ceiling. If the tribe were willing to take Rasner, you can bet a Cano or Melky or other top prospect would have to be there as well. If Rasner ends up being a piece, I don’t see it being a significant one. His ML sample right now is pretty small.
Hey Pete, just wanted to note that Mussina’s ERA isn’t 3.22, it’s 3.82. Still amazing though!
houston leads baseball in SB.. Jorge may be in for a long weekend….
where is the roster move???? bye bye Moeller(did a good job) and add a middle infielder of or a OF with some speed…..
Besides, if the tribe’s demands were too high, from what we saw from the Santana saga, I believe Cash would choose to pass and see how the market goes for him in the winter. With the rise of value and the ability for teams to keep their youth, fewer teams are investing in that long term big cash type of contract for aging vets (the Mets’ desperation aside) as they had in past years. So Cash could get him for fewer and less after the winter market plays itself out – without sacrificing valuable prospects.
Iv been forgetting to ask this question for awhile now. How long was Hughes pitching with his injured ribs? Did it just occur in his last start or was it something that he didnt disclose prior?
If there is anything that these last 3 games have told us is the we absolutely need a first baseman NOW! I dont know who’s worse of the two. Watching the A’s first baseman turn 2 so smoothly makes you miss the Oelruds/Tino of the world.
I think we should get Luis Sojo to un retire and be our utility guy.
V,
Did you come up with the name from the alien show in the 80′s?
stuart, i think that b/c houston runs so much, they will keep jorge on the bench and keep moeller so they can ph jorge and send the 3rd catcher in. also dont think they’ll send shelley out when they are in a RH power hitter’s paridise. bullpen is pretty rested, there may not be any moves.
“V,
Did you come up with the name from the alien show in the 80’s”
No.
Girardi said last night that they will keep 3 catchers for at least another week because of the day/night make-up of the schedule for the next week or so.
Honestly, if the Yankees want Sabathia this year, my -top- offer would be something of the following
Horne or A-Jax, J.B. Cox, and a lower level pitching prospect.
Mock it if you want, but I don’t think the Indians get more than that from anyone but a totally-desperate-to-win-now Cubs.
where’s my middle finger
v is that for sabathia only for the rest of the year or are you giving that and signing a 6 year contract?
I think Sabathia would seriously consider signing with NY; but, IMO, the Yanks won’t do it as a rental for half a year. He’ll get market value from the Steins. Santana got what he got from Los Mets, but CC isn’t Santana. After Zito, six years is long, 5 with some options maybe; but, IMO, you do six if you have to.
CC has got to see it as a good deal. He is approaching his prime, the Yanks are committed to getting younger, more athletic and with the money coming off the books next year, more financially flexible enabling them to trade, or make judicious FA pick ups to mix with the regulars. He’s got Mo as his closer for his first few years in ‘stripes, plus it’s the Big Apple, not Cleveland. He’s looking at a big bucks contract, endorsements, a New Stadium, the rivalry with the Sox, and given the dire need for a lefty in the Bronx he will almost certainly get a hero’s welcome. He’s much younger and seemingly healthier than The Big Unit was when he arrived in NY so it’s no comparison there.
In ’09 it could be Wang, CC, Joba, Hughes and whoever else isn’t used as bait for CC this year (IPK?). Maybe Andy P wants to stick around in ’09 although I doubt it. But I won’t be surprised if Moose is invited back to the Bronx one more time. Now that he’s mastered his Inner Moyer he could have a couple more productive years anchoring the back end of the rotation.
Too low for Sabathia. Other teams will offer better parts to Cleveland for him. They won’t give CC away. They will take the draft picks before giving him away.
Y’s correct. The Yankees have to find out (which will take backchannel work) if CC is willing to do a long term deal with the Yankees. I doubt the Indians will give the Yankees a 72 hour window to do a deal in season. Lots of issues with that with the Union and with the Commissioner. That’s easier to do in the off-season. If he is willing to do a long term deal, you look to get him this year. If of course, they decide he’s a guy they want.
You don’t wait until free agency because the price will go up in the off-season.
Cleveland will want some major league ready prospects/veteran(s) in return.
Cano? Not off the table, regardless of what folks may think. Also, not necessarily in the deal either. If Cano was ever included in a deal, the Yankees would have to get back a second baseman in return. It also lessens the level of prospect(s) sent to Cleveland in the deal.
Pete had it right the other day. Take out Hughes, Melancon, Montero, AJax and Brackman, give the Indians a list, and see who they want.
BTW, last night marked only the second road series the Yankees have won all season. Their last road series win was in April against the White Sox.
They have yet to have a winning roadtrip this year.
That has to change if they want to make a run.
v is that for sabathia only for the rest of the year or are you giving that and signing a 6 year contract?
That’s the day I give up on Brian Cashman and call for his firing. Sign him to a deal but don’t give up prospects and do the same thing you have to anyway. Another words they can’t wait till offseason to buy him for free, what’s the rush ?
Well HoJo is about to be fired by the Mets.
Off topic – did you guys see where Papelsmear essentially says that he’s going to throw at TB hitters the next time the Crock Sox plays them? His comments warrant a suspension. Of course, it won’t happen since he’s not a Yankee.
“RISP
vs LHB .000/.300/.000
vs RHB .111/.292/.167 ”
That’s 25 ABs. That’s completely pointless.
As for Hairston…I want someone who is likely to continue to get the job done, not merely someone who is getting it done right now in a big-time hitters park. Also, who cares that Wiggy isn’t playing 1B this year? He’s done it before. He’s hitting lefties well this season and can play 1B. That is a description of player that we need. He can also fill in at 2B, which is a plus.
“Well HoJo is about to be fired by the Mets.”
They are gonna fire him now? Not surprised..
They never should have fired..whatshisname..Rick Downs(?) last season
There is no way Cano is included for a half season of CC.
I don’t think anyone offers something close to Cano alone, let alone Cano plus a couple others.
We’re talking three months of a guy who very well could choose to go to free agency regardless of who trades for him.
“Another words they can’t wait till offseason to buy him for free, what’s the rush ?”
He is unlikely to BE there in the offseason if the indians put him on the block.
Whozat you are not concerned about him not hitting in those situations w/ this club ? I mean it’s fine that you’d want him for his versatility but com’on he also needs to hit.
“We’re talking three months of a guy who very well could choose to go to free agency regardless of who trades for him.”
V, read the post. SJ is only advocating that the Yanks CONSIDER trading Cano assuming that they already KNOW CC will be amenable to a long-term deal.
I didn’t have a chance to thank all the well wishes last night for congratulating the wife and I on our new son. Good news was that when the baby woke me in the middle of the night, I quickly put on the Yankee game on tape delay and enjoyed the Thrilla from Godzilla.
Great to win a series against a team ahead of us in the standings. Looking forward to interleague play this year more than usual. Although the Yankees missing the DH will leave a hole in the lineup. I assume the birthday boy sits.
“Whozat you are not concerned about him not hitting in those situations w/ this club ?”
I understand that 25 ABs is a sample size that is any way predictive of his abilities.
What are his career splits in those situations?
wow! HOJO? who are they kidding? they really dont want to pay willie to sit around do they?
was it hojo who blew 3 saves this week? did hojo get knocked out in the 1st inning in SF?
rick peterson must have pics of wilpon with his secretary or something.
is NOT a sample size
He is unlikely to BE there in the offseason if the indians put him on the block.
Name me the team that gets him to negotiate a longterm contract this year.
Brandon,
Its not a slam dunk the Yankees sign CC as a FA. In the off-season, the price goes up. It may go up to a degree where the Yankees chose not to bid.
Also, acquiring him via trade means they keep their draft pick. Signing him as a FA costs them their first round pick.
Like all deals, there are positives and negatives to them.
Its not a slam dunk either way.
It all gets down to how the Yankees see their retooling of the team in this off-season.
If they get a real first baseman, a guy who can hit AND field, it lessens the need for bigger production out of second base. Perhaps, opening the door for a CC deal.
Guys like Mark Ellis and Orlando Hudson are free agents in the off-season. Those guys are more than serviceable as second basemen for the Yankees.
You don’t need all stars at every position. You do however, need top flight starting pitching. Without it, you don’t win in the post-season.
For all the talk from the fitness freaks on the blog about CC, one thing gets lost in the conversation.
The Yankees have NOBODY in currently in their rotation who is as good as he is.
Put him in Yankee Stadium, a pitcher friendly park for lefties, and you have a guy who is a horse.
If Cleveland makes him available, the Yankees have to exhaust all alternatives to make that deal, IMO.
Not just for this season but for the future.
Jeff,
There might not be a hole in the lineup in interleague play. Damon and Matsui can just man the outfield if necessary.
Whatever game Posada doesn’t catch I’m almost certain that Melky will sit that game.
What are his career splits in those situations?
.249/.324/.400 w/ a .724 OPS
BABIP .288
Wait, they’re gonna axe Hojo for the pitching now?
matsui better line up for the relay if damon has to throw from the hill.
actually i think they’re gonna axe hojo because willie picked him. peterson is the organization’s guy. this is like when george fired art fowler to punish billy.
Well, Heyman has an article up on SI that they are thinking of getting rid of poor Willie, HOJO and Rick Peterson.
Dan Warthen could take over for Peterson and Jerry Manuel would be the manager
I don’t want to trade Cano, but I do agree with SJ that Orlando Hudson or Mark Ellis would be serviceable replacements if Cano were to be included in a deal for CC.
I’d prefer Hudson if I had a choice. I don’t know if I’d want to sign him for longer than 2 years with a vesting option for a third. Don’t know if Hudson would sign for that or what it would cost but that’s what I’d be offering. But that’s why I don’t get paid to make these decisions.
SJ,
Im not doubting C.C. abilities. The question that i have is if he’s worth a 6 or 7 year deal? We didnt give Santana the contract. Which i think was wise. Why should we give C.C. a similiar one?
How long do we sit and wait for Cano to get out of his funk? Do we bring up Gonzo and sit Cano for a few games? I know he cant hit. But im just wondering if the confort level knowing noone is breathing down his throat is making him complacent. He seems to be getting up with runners in scoring position every time up and comes out of it empty handed. When is enough,enough?
Excited to watch Joba pitch tonight. Need a big game from him. Houston runs free when they get on the bases…
“Wait, they’re gonna axe Hojo for the pitching now?”
Yeah, stupid HoJo making Wagner blow all these saves recently!
Re: CC
Who’s interested? Yankees, Cubs, maybe Dodgers, maybe Phillies, maybe Red Sox. Mets if they could get him for nothing, heh.
Now, what would the -top- package these teams would be willing to put forward? I could see a Kemp or Loney from the Dodgers as the main piece. Cubs could open the gates if they perceive this as a must-win year.
What would the Yankees -top- offer be? What would it take to beat these offers? Is it too much? Then you tip your cap and wish them luck.
One more thing. There are rumors that the Mariners are talking to the Philis on a Beddard trade. Would that end up being a cheaper route to take? He’s not a free agent for a coule years. That would be enough time to see what our youngsters have.
JeffNJ,
Congratulations on the new edition to the family!
V,
I’m not talking about a half season of Sabathia. Of course, the Yankees aren’t going to trade Robinson Cano, or anyone of substance, for a half season of CC Sabathia.
If they trade for Sabathia, regardless of what they say publicly, its because they know they will sign him to a long term deal.
If they don’t feel they can, they won’t do a deal.
Before some folks get their noses out of joint and the blog turns into a namecalling contest, here’s my overall point about Cano-CC.
1. The Yankees need another horse in the starting rotation. Not just for this year, but for the future. CC is under 30, one of the 3-4 best starting pitchers in the AL, lefthanded, and fits the role needed for the Yankees rotation. Hughes having his second lost season in a row precludes the Yankees from having him in the rotation to start 2009. He’s going to need the innings and frankly, you can’t count on him until he shows he can stay healthy.
2. Even if Robinson Cano was having a Cano year, its something to talk about. What’s more valuable to a team, a second baseman or a #1-#2 starter? Its the pitching.
Especially when you can fill second baseman with other parts this year and either with Ellis or Hudson next year.
I’m not talking about trading Robinson Cano for a bag of balls. I am talking about trading him for the reigning Cy Young winner in the AL. No small order. Frankly, its a tribute to Cano’s ability that he’s even in the mix about doing a deal of this magnitude. Most .225 hitting second basemen aren’t traded for Cy Young winners in their prime.
Perhaps the Indians would do the deal without Cano. Obviously, that’s the best of both worlds.
However, if that’s unlikely, and the Yankees can do the deal with Cano in it, they gotta pull the trigger, IMO.
Think about it. The rotation for the rest of the year would be: Wang, CC, Moose, Andy, Joba, with Rasner as the long man.
If they got CC, I bet Andy comes back for one more year in 2009. If he does, its the best rotation in the AL.
If nothing else, its at least worth a long look by the Yankees. Sometimes, you have to be bold and not be afraid to pull the trigger on a big deal.
Other teams are not going to giveaway their star players for free.
“I don’t want to trade Cano, but I do agree with SJ that Orlando Hudson or Mark Ellis would be serviceable replacements if Cano were to be included in a deal for CC.”
Serviceable replacements, yes, but I think the Yankees could get a lot more if they made Cano available. I just don’t see him being included for CC.
If he were hitting .300/.350/.450, would we be discussing Cano for CC? No way. This is merely overreacting to a slumping player talk.
IMO any market for Sabathia is going to prove to be very constrained and he’s not going to cost as much as what people are talking about in the rumors coming out in the press.
The only teams that would think to trade for him are ones who are in playoff contention and who can afford to sign him long term.
Eliminate Detroit and the Twins as they are in the division. Tampa will be in contention but can’t sign him long term. Mets – don’t see them signing another $20M pitcher. Same for the phillies and the Braves. The Brewers can’t afford him. The Dodgers aren’t going to pay him – now with McCourt.
So the bidding will come down to the usual suspects – the yanks and sox and the cubs.
I’d guess Shapiro will have a strong incentive to trade him to the NL regardless of offer. I could see the Indians contending again next year with some changes and Shapiro will be hesitant to trade him to a team he’s have to compete with in the AL wild card.
I think there’s a good chance he takes a lesser offer from the Cubs to get him out of the division this season and also to get CC to sign long term there so the Yanks and Sox can’t sign him. The flip side to that is that the Cubs really don’t have much of a system and don’t have a lot of talent to trade.
Otherwise – I could see the Sox trading for him but have trouble believing they will sign him long term. Not after they passed on Santana. They could try to trade for him as a 2-3 month rental but how much will they be willing to give up for him? They have a lot of position player prospects but not a ton of minor league pitching depth. The Indians will want pitching back. I don’t see them trading Masterson or Bowden for a rental. Maybe they can afford to give up a package heavy on position players.
I still don’t think the yanks can make decisions based on what the Sox may or may not be willing to do for this year.
In a three team market – Yanks, Cubs, Sox – the Indians are going to be able to get more than 2 draft picks but its not going to be a bonanza. They’re not getting more than the Twins got for Santana.
Shapiro won’t deal him until the last moment – July 31. That’s only 2 months of the regular season. That’s all you’ll get CC for. That’s around 10-12 starts of CC. And on top of everything else CC isn’t having nearly the year he had last year.
I just don’t see him commanding a package of premium talent back unless some team panics. We’ll see.
if the phillies go for cc, ill fall off my chair. they were one good SP away last year and as always sat on their hands. they NEVER go get anybody to help the team, despite a huge tv market and a stadium basically paid in full by taxpayers and filled by fans. it certainly would be the RIGHT move for the phils, they have a shot at the WS. but all of philadelphia will be flabergasted if they do anything substantial to help this team.
“I’m not talking about trading Robinson Cano for a bag of balls. I am talking about trading him for the reigning Cy Young winner in the AL. No small order. Frankly, its a tribute to Cano’s ability that he’s even in the mix about doing a deal of this magnitude. Most .225 hitting second basemen aren’t traded for Cy Young winners in their prime.”
But you’re ignoring the money.
What’s CC’s deal? $20M+ per year for 6 years (at least).
How much is a replacement 2B? $8-12M+ for 3 years (at least).
Add in the need for a 1B, and the fact that the Yankees pay 1.40 on the dollar for these contracts, and I just don’t see it happening.
If George were in charge, or Hank had sole control, you’d have a point, but I see no way the Yankees deal a relatively cheap Cano for the right to give CC a lot of money and the need to pay a replacement 2B too much money.
V,
Good question. I guess it’s all who the Indians prefer.
Do they think Cano+ > Kemp or Loney+
Is AJax+ > Kemp or Loney+
The Cubs could go all in give up Murton, Pie and whomever else.
I think if CC goes on the market Cashman is going to be forced to go all in personally. No way they’ll let Boston sneak in and grab him up.
“Shapiro won’t deal him until the last moment – July 31. That’s only 2 months of the regular season. That’s all you’ll get CC for. That’s around 10-12 starts of CC. And on top of everything else CC isn’t having nearly the year he had last year.”
Take out the first month of the season and he looks a lot better.
However, he does have a lot of wear on that arm, and he fell apart in the postseason.
Word of advice to Howie Rose and Wayne Hagan Milton Bradley is in town, watch what you say
SOS,
Why CC and not Santana? Simple. Hughes and Kennedy bombed. They not only bombed, they both got hurt. Especially tough for Hughes because they were counting on him to be a big part of the rotation this year.
Two lost seasons from Hughes means they need a front end starter who can give them quality AND length. Especially for 2009.
Plans change. At the time Santana was out there, the Yankees were smart to pull back. However, given Hughes and Kennedy’s injuries and ineffectiveness, Melky’s up and down play (along with Gardner being as close to major league ready as he can right now), and the fact that only Wang is assured of eating innings in 2009, you change your plans.
He won’t get a 7 year deal. He won’t get more money than Santana. He will get 5, perhaps 6 years.
Guess what? If it takes 6 years to do the deal, you do it. With as much money coming off the books as they have after this season, its a whole lot easier to remake your team when you have starting pitching in place than when you don’t.
Ray,
I agree, Hudson would be my choice. He can play, likes the bright lights of NY, and would be the perfect bottom of the order hitter in the Yankees lineup.
He also is an excellent defensive player who can run a bit and handle the bat.
“If he were hitting .300/.350/.450, would we be discussing Cano for CC? No way. This is merely overreacting to a slumping player talk.”
no, i actually advocating offering Cano for Johan in the offseason as a way to avoid trading one of IPK/Hughes/Joba.
If Shapiro gets anything remotely close, or better, to what Smith got for 1. a lesser pitcher (as we all agree that Santana is a tier or two above Sabathia) and 2. less time left on the current contract (2-3 months compared to a full season), Smith and I be damned.
i just cant get around the contract. i dont want to give up all that talent and let him walk either. i just cant see him holding up for 6 or 7 seasons. thats not to say he’s not a very good pitcher who would really help the team, i just cant see going in with all the talent and money on this guy after passing on santana last year.
they need to be in the game to keep boston from getting him cheap, but i think cash will pass on this for the same reason he passed on santana.
if hes a f.a. in the offseason, then its a different calculation.
“Take out the first month of the season and he looks a lot better.”
He still doesn’t look as good as he did last year.
No matter how you want to selectively splice his stats he’s just not pitching as well this year as he did last year.
That’s my only point. Not saying he’s not a good pitcher right now.
But he’s not performing as well as last year.
And that’s an issue because if you only have the guy for 10 starts each of the 10 starts has to be a gem.
I’m much less certain CC’s last 10 starts this year will be as good as his final 10 starts from last year because he’s been considerably more inconsistent this year than last.
He threw 256 innings last year – by far a career high. This year he hasn’t been as good. That’s not necessarily the most reassuring thing for how he’ll finish the season.
All you’re trading for is 2 months of Sabathia and possibly the right to negotiate with him long term. No guarantee you make the playoffs. No guarantee he’ll want to pass up the opportunity to be a free agent when he’s so close.
So what you are most certain to get is 10 starts. If the Indians want premium talent back 10 starts from CC last year are much more valuable than 10 starts this year.
That’s it. And I’ve looked at all of his statistics and splits.
Yeh I think people right now are over doing it w/ Robi hate. I understand he’s not hitting but if he were to hit w/ an OPS of 850-900 we would not be putting him on any table.
one thing to also consider, if the indians dont move Sabathia, they get 2 draft picks… correct me if i’m wrong, but the indians dont go over slot to sign draft picks, so why do people think they’d just simply take the picks and try and go upside on a couple of picks who are unproven at the MLB level when they can prob get at least 3 players who have had relative to very good success at the upper minor league level?
they arent going to pay to get the real upside picks to take advantage of the draft picks for CC anyway… take what you can get and walk.
If I’m the Yankees and I decide that I have to have CC I try to do it with minor league talent personally.
I agree with V, I do AJax and Betances or McCalister plus someone else. Maybe two someone else’s if needs be.
I do think in the end though Cashman will be forced to make the trade work any way possible.
The downside of waiting until July 31 is that some of the contenders now could be NON contenders then, so the market for CC could narrow.
Would Boston ever put Dustin Pedroia on the table to get CC at the deadline?
No. They wouldn’t.
At this point, would they ever put Ellsbury in a package for CC as a rental?
Don’t think so.
Trading either of those players not only hurts their team but their fan base would never tolerate losing either of those players unless they signed CC long term. And CC is not a player the Sox are going to pay big money to for 6-7 yrs.
Who do the cubs have to trade? Pie? He’s just about their best tradable commodity and he’s not that great.
Like the Santana deal, why should the yankees have to put in considerably more talent than any other team?
No other team bidding for CC is going to put in a young, contract controlled all star caliber player like Cano.
The dodgers big problem this year isn’t their pitching – they have no hitting. They’re not trading Kemp for pitching – their trying to get a guy like Holliday for him.
If CC is dealt the bids for him are going to center on minor league talent. No team is going to put up a player anywhere in cano’s class to trade for CC as a two month rental with a negotiating window, IMO.
V,
Lets look at the Yankees roster next year without Cano and with CC with approx salary numbers.
Jeter (19 million), Arod (25), ODog or Ellis (4), Posada (15), Wang (10). I think he gets his deal in the off-season. Mo (14), CC (20), Andy (I think he comes back if CC is in NY) (16), Joba, Rasner, Ohlendorf, Ramirez, Veras, Melancon, (total of 3 million for all of them).
Damon and Matsui both make 13 million. Abreu? I think he is back with a 2 year deal in the 15 million dollar range. Molina is back at around 2 million, IIRC.
Melky or Gardner will play CF next year. Both guys may be on the roster if Melky is back. One would be the backup OF. That’s a total of 1 million.
That’s 20 players totaling 170 million dollars.
They need to find a first baseman, a backup infielder, and 3 relief pitchers to round out the roster.
They don’t have to spend 20 million to find a first baseman. Perhaps, they trade either Damon or Matsui to find a first baseman. Or, go in another direction.
Either way, the payroll is 40 million less than this year, with 5 moves to fill. Backup infielders and relief pitchers aren’t pricey items. They could probably fill those rolls for 5 million total.
That gets you to 175 before they find a first baseman.
It can be done. It all depends how they reconfigure their roster.
If you put Teixeira there you can go close to 200 again.
It would really be reek of desperation if the Yankees went after Sabathia.
We would be passing up Santana for Sabathia at a higher cost for a lesser pitcher who by the way is getting up their in weight. It just doesn’t make sense.
“We would be passing up Santana for Sabathia at a higher cost for a lesser pitcher who by the way is getting up their in weight. It just doesn’t make sense.”
Changed circumstances. Hughes and IPK bombed. They can’t give 200 innings each next year. Yanks need proven length and stability now, didn’t before when Santana was on the market.
I don’t see why it would look like desperation, its making a move that corrects some of the faults that have come up this year. That isn’t desperation, its good management.
A lot depends on how much it costs in the way of trade pieces to get him.
Am I too simplistic to think that you can trade Cano and just pick up a replacement 2B from another team?
Question for everyone:
If you could only do one midseason trade (w/ extension) would you go for Sabathia or Teixeira?
Nobody hates Cano. Geez, some folks gotta get over that.
Players are commodities. When you have trade talk, you are discussing commodities, that’s all.
Cano is a commodity for the Yankees. How much of one depends on how they view him and see the team over the long haul.
It has nothing to do with “hating” him or any of that nonsense.
If you don’t think the Yankees, and every other team in baseball, discusses these things on a daily basis re: their players, you don’t know baseball front offices.
I guarantee you the Yankees are looking at every viable option in determining what moves, if any, they make this summer.
Cano’s struggles are also secondary to the conversation.
If he was having a Cano-type year, its still something you think about because we are talking about a front end starting pitcher AND the Yankees have other offensive weapons.
Additionally, he doesn’t have a no trade and has a friendly (to other teams) contract. It makes him a valuable commodity on the trade front IF the Yankees decided to move him.
The Red Sox are in a different position than the Yankees. They have more useful depth in their system, especially among position players. If they desire, they could rent CC, try to win it again this year with him, let him go, AND get 2 draft picks for him.
If that happened, that’s a doomsday scenario for the Yankees.
Wow Oswalt’s having a bad year thats not him anyone know whats wrong?
I dont know whats more of a risk.
a. a pitcher who is moving closer to 400 pounds than 300 for 6 yrs.
b. a good not great first baseman for 6 or 7 years of all star money(been there done that).
c. an ace who who is injury prone that could probably be had for 2 or 3 years for less money.(no not pavano)
c.Sheets!!
Sabathia, Tex can be had in the Offseason and Boras would never do that extension before Tex hits the open market. C.C. and his agent would likely do it if the money was right C.C. has always wanted to pitch in a bigger market and there is none bigger.
Let’s get CC and Tex…RIGHT NOW ! If Cano has to go…so be it….he seems disintersted in baseball anyHoo…just ask the late night party animals of NY !
Whoaaa…when did Oswalt start sucking so much?
The Yankees have had several players worse than Cairo this year. Moeller, Gonzales, Betemit, Ensberg and Chris Stewart.
Tex is a gold glover and his bat is terrific good OBP I dont see what anyone has against him besides the fact that he strikes out a bit.
The most important factor in this discussion, in my opinion, is whether or not CC wants to play in NY. He’s a NorCal guy, it’s not nearly as sports crazy here as it is in NY. He’s played in Cleveland for his entire career, away from the bright lights. If he takes NY money and doesn’t really want to prove himself in the Bronx, then you’ve got a real problem. For at least 5 years and $100 million.
The Yankees will have to determine this before they even think of trading away talent.
I do not mind at all trading ‘highly regarded’ prospect for a proven veteran. Not all prospects pan out, veterans are known commodities. I just think Cashman needs to do his homework on this one.
The Yankees had two routes to take prior the season.
One with Santana, Wang, and Pettitte leading your rotation with Joba in the wings.
Or -
Having a “home grown” rotation in development with Kennedy, Hughes, Chamberlain, etc.
They chose option 2 and now because of a slow start they will make a U- Turn? They chose to stick with the kids, they should stick to their commitment. Especially considering their trade value have all hit rock bottom.
A move to Cleveland might actually help Cano figure things out as well. It at least has less of a night life for him, other than hanging with LeBron.
Soriano was an ‘all star’ second baseman the Yankees had no problem trading.
He was almost traded for Jim Edmonds two years before he was dealt for A-Rod.
Second basemen are always on the move. A front of the line starting pitcher rarely comes along.
Santana wasn’t grabbed b/c the NYY front office thought Kennedy and Hughes would be contributing in SOME fashion. They have not, in any way. It is mid-June and they are both hurt and winless.
I bet if Santana was (back in Minny) on the market, he’d get a king’s ransom.
I think the front office has no problem trading Cano in the right deal. JMO.
Don Vito problem is as I stated earlier is that Tex is a Boras slave and even if Tex wanted to lock up long term here in NY Boras would make him use the Yanks for more bucks, but C.C. I can understand I could honestly see him signing long term for the Yanks if he got the money he wanted.
Everytime an error’s commited @ first, we lament that we have no legit 1B.
Nothing against Atlanta, but I hope they’re out of the race pretty soon.
The trade is right across town. Kennedy and Cano for Reyes, put Reyes at 2nd for now.
“Soriano was an ‘all star’ second baseman the Yankees had no problem trading.”
Soriano was trade for ARod – ARod. Doesn’t that tell you how much talent you have to get in return to warrant a trade for an all star second baseman?
Is Sabathia anywhere near the player ARod is? ARod is an all time great – all time. CC Sabathia is a very good pitcher right now.
And Soriano was basically an outfielder playing second base. He was a dreadful defensive player. There was no doubt that at some point he was going to be moved to the outfield.
Trade Cano and Kennedy for Reyes and put Reyes at second
mel,
My condolences on your boys.
What the hell was Kobe talking about yesterday? Taking 20 shots and some wine, wetting the bed, not just a little,but alot. Where a towel wouldnt be enough. Huh? Did he take some shots before he came out to talk to the media?
Put Reyes at 2nd
I love how people are so worried about CC weight and Texiera being worth his money.
But these same people aren’t worried
*Hughes can end up like Pavano and Mark Prior,
*Kennedy being overrated and he was seen as that by scouts,
*Cox-Sanchez-Melchon being TJ rehab guys who aren’t 100% ready to be promoted and might be rushed to fast and Cox is already on the DL.
Then theres the whole Kennedy,Hughes,And Joba not being able to go even 180 innings next year.
You need free agents sometimes even the Yankees 90′s team had them with Tino Martinez,Clemens,O’Neil,Cone to name a few.
Yeah, but the Rangers also wanted to rid themselves of both A-Rod and his contract.
I think Cano for Sabathia is a good match up, as long as a 2B comes in the deal until another solution could be made in the offseason.
CB,
Wasnt the Arod trade more of a salary dump?
I believe at least O’Neil and Clemens were trades from that list, not free agents, when first acquired.
“You need free agents sometimes even the Yankees 90’s team had them with Tino Martinez,Clemens,O’Neil,Cone to name a few”
There’s a difference between signing a free agent and trading for somebody. Especially when you had the opportunity to trade for the superior pitcher 6 months earlier and chose to pass.
trade Cano and Kennedy for Reyes and put Reyes at 2nd
“Yeah, but the Rangers also wanted to rid themselves of both A-Rod and his contract.”
But why do you think the Indians are thinking about trading CC?
It’s because of money. They can’t afford to keep CC just like Texas couldn’t afford to keep ARod.
If ARod was a “salary dump” so is CC. Shapiro isn’t trading CC because he wants to – he’s doing it because he’s forced to.
And there is just no remote comparison between CC Sabathia and Alex Rodriguez. None. Alex is going to go down as one of the 5 best players in history.
Is CC even going to make the HOF? It possible but I wouldn’t bet on it.
That’s not a knock on him but he’s nowhere near the player Alex is even when you consider how much more important pitching is than hitting. No comparison.
“You’ve said that you would give him along with the other young pitchers 3 starts to prove their worth.
Don’t make me go all stalker on you and search for your past posts.”
that’s true that i’ve said that before about three starts for rookies. but to put it in context i would make all players cpmpete constantly. look what it did for mussina when he was sat down last august. i would sit down any starter who it would benefit.
we wouldn’t be seeing the change in mussina if he hadn’t been sat down. cano could use some competition right now himself. i’m not into the patience thing.
……………………………………..
on a separate note, wouldn’t it be great of there was a simple way to look back at what someone said on the blog? you can google someone’s username and get some postings, but it’s not easy.
i would absolutely love to have all of our comment histories easy to look at. how do you really know how good someone is at predicting the future if you can’t go back and see what they said?
what is someone’s credibility if they are mostly wrong about their predictions? no one is going to be right all the time , but it would be nice to see where people stood on key issues.
Soriano was awful in the post season, and his slump made Canos recent slump look like a hot streak. The Rangers got robbed
MoBoy,
I agree that we need free agents. Im not one who thinks that all the minor leaguers we have will turn out to be the next Arod or Santanas. But we have signed players in recent years to too many years. Which is why we are in the position we are today. Even Santana IMO was too many years. Yes he might look good this year. But his velocity is down a couple miles an hour. Will he be effective in a couple years? No one knows. Is it worth the risk? I dont think it is. Some were crying why we didnt sign Pedro or a Burnett. Im sure they wont admit it know.
But i think we have to walk a fine line. Between getting better today and making sure we’re not in the same boat we’re in at this present time(over paid,old players,not able to trade,taking up space)in a couple years.
SoS,
Do you mean “My condolences to your boys (anyone but Kobe)”?
Lucky thing I had to leave right after the game. Driving cleared my head and I missed all the postgame stuff.
Reyes for second? I guess you missed the expieriment that the Mets did a few years ago. He was awful.
Plus he has a bad attitude. No way.
Griffey to Tampa? What put down the peace pipe Heyman.
was horrible in the post season, especially the year he was traded. His slump made Canos slump look like a hot streak. The Yankees robbed Texas on that one
STFU about Bronson Arroyo you piece of crap !!!
Oh no here he is again with Arroyo. Talk about a man crush.
randy l,
On the Lakers blog I frequent, the host did a “I was wrong about…” and ‘fessed up to all the assumptions about key players (mainly Kobe) and stuff they were wrong about. At the end of this season, it’d be nice if we had one here. Of course Pete’s would be a dissertation (j/k!).
I was wrong about…Giambi. But not wrong about saying goodbye after the season.
how could Bronson Arroyo really come up in the discussion, AGAIN??
Well, he did outduel Pineiro the other day.
Enough with Bronson Arroyo Fatcessa!!!!
oswalt’s last outings have been much better. he was having a problem early, think it was a leg problem but pitched very well last 2 times. yankees shoud expect to see him at the top of his game. also wandy doesnt look that great overall, but he’s a monster at enron.
“Tex is a gold glover and his bat is terrific good OBP I dont see what anyone has against him besides the fact that he strikes out a bit.”
I don’t really have anything against Tex. I’m just not sure he wants to come to NY. I will say that he seems to have a sloooooow start each year and that will bring out the boo birds in the Bronx. And although he is a switch hitter, he really hits better from the left side.
Those are nitpicks. IMO he is a very good player who would anchor 1st base for a long time and be a threat in the lineup.
murphydog,
Weellll. No one’s perfect. Even Alex!
Randy,
I do agree that competition is good and that players should have to earn their spots. I just think that when it comes to rookie players sometimes it takes a while for them to adjust to a new level of competition. Even in the minor leagues it usually takes players a few games to adjust to better competition.
As far as researching a posters history, I guess it can be done with registration. On ESPN’s site you can click on a commentors name and view their posts that they’ve made on the site. Everyone has to be registered however. There’s nothing wrong with any of us being wrong about a particular point of view, not like we’re being paid to be right. I prefer the differing opinions about baseball that we all have here. If we were all in agreement here all the time how boring would this blog be?
“Do you mean “My condolences to your boys (anyone but Kobe)â€?”
Yes.
I feel your pain. Maybe not as much but i do. Spurs blew a couple big leads against you guys and that foul by fisher is still costing me shrink visits. At least you have a young team that will compete for awhile. Not like mine where they have to blow it up and start over.
Kobe does need to say less in those post game interviews.
He seriously can not shut up about that guy what is it w/ FatBoy and Arroyo !
And does he not realize that Yankee fans won’t take too kindly to Bronson. I mean yeah if he pitched really well we’d give him polite applause. But how likely is that?
Randy Wolf would be great for this team.And At Least Arroyo can pitch now then in August like Hughes.
But Randy Wolf would really help this team since the Padres are out of it.And trade for Houston Street.
SoS,
As much Laker hate as there is, believe it or not, people hate the Spurs more.
But trust me when I say that this Celtics team will be the new target. The Spurs are so much classier, it’s not even funny.
Mel:
“Weellll. No one’s perfect. Even Alex!”
As a player A-Rod can be pretty close at times.
question for the ladies:
Do we absolutely hate cornrows on white people?
Maybe Francessa wants Arroyo to marry his daughter.
Man, I am hoping for a phone call from Steve the crazy Mets fan. I need a good laugh today..
murphydog,
I love Alex’s homeruns, but sometimes we just need a productive out. That and the popup thing (on both sides of the ball). But I agree. He’s not too shabby.
Randy Wolf? Randy Wolf?
Trade for a guy who’s been injured 5 out of the past 5 years? I guess he looks like Iron Man compared to the American Idle but still.
Besides that he’s an average pitcher in the NL. He will get hammered in the AL I think.
Ben Sheets? Ben Sheets?
Trade for a guy…
mel,
Do you bring back that classless shooter(shot a three with a second left in the spurs final game even though the game was over) Vujachek or Turiaf for next year?
Its hard to believe they are hated more. Honestly if Kobe wasnt on the team i think 50% of the haters would like them. Step away from being a Laker fan for a second and watch how he talks and acts. Its like chalk board scratching to me.
Sheets would be a rental option should Sabathia not be realistic, i would imagine. but i dont see the Yankees shelling out much for the opportunity to trade for him, though.
Sheets is a tough one to call… he’s got great stuff, but has too many injuries to really be able to establish true market value. you wonder what the Brewers would want back in return.
Gary Carter for Mets manager? Alrighty caller.
He’s probably outside of Shea right now campaigning for a job
nice. got tickets to the scranton yanks game at the iron pigs on sunday 7/20 for fathers day.
though somehow i feel like when homer bought marge a bowling ball for her birthday. at least my name isn’t on the tickets…
“Randy Wolf? Randy Wolf?
Trade for a guy who’s been injured 5 out of the past 5 years? I guess he looks like Iron Man compared to the American Idle but still.
Besides that he’s an average pitcher in the NL. He will get hammered in the AL I think.”
Thats why i would trade for Harden and Sheets. Both could be in the dl for half the year and we still get an ace out of it.
2 injured aces=1 complete ACE.
the caller probably is Gary Carter disguising his voice…
Didnt we all say that Blister Beckett was a huge risk? Maybe the injuries are finally behind them?
Mel,
LMAO.
S.o.S.,
No way to tell when Harden or Sheets would be injured, otherwise it’s a good idea.
“But trust me when I say that this Celtics team will be the new target. The Spurs are so much classier, it’s not even funny.”
Haven’t noticed a problem with the Celtics “class” level. I know it’s a lot higher than the Lakers, but maybe it’s not to the Spurs level.
Guess we can abandon the Kobe is “as good as Jordan” talk that some were promulgating, but in fairness, a low end PG, Lamar Odom, and a bunch of euro weenies, is a lot of weight for one guy to carry.
SoS,
Stop being such a hater. If he was on your team you’d look at him differently. Don’t look at or listen to him if it bothers you so much.
Not to get into because I respect the Spurs, but people across the country say they hate their flopping, how Timmy’s eyes pop out of his head when he gets called for a foul, and they absolutely hate Bowen Scissorhands. These are not my opinions and I still love Horry.
As for the Machine. Yes, it was classless. But it won the crowd free tacos and cost $100M in betting. Priceless. You bring him back, but not for very much. The bigger issue is Bynum’s contract. They don’t even know if that knee will respond.
“On ESPN’s site you can click on a commentors name and view their posts that they’ve made on the site.”
that would be highly entertaining and interesting if we could do that here. it’s actually hard to go back to discussions even a few months ago to see what was said.
the search box on the blog is kind of crude the way it’s set up now.
if anyone has a way that works well on going back, i’d like to hear about it.
just for fun google anyone can google their” username and lohud” and a lot comes up.
but it’s still pretty random .
“raymagnetic and lohud” for example
http://www.google.com/search?h.....tnG=Search
click on” cached” and voila!
“you wonder what the Brewers would want back in return.”
Young, high end pitching. They are in reasonably good shape positon player-wise.
SoS,
Your plan will only work if you can schedule their injuries.
“The Spurs are so much classier, its not even funny”
Typical comment from a frustrated fan. People hate the Spurs because they are darn good. Maybe now it will be the Celtics. People hate winning teams, period. And losing fans make ridiculous, ignorant comments like that one.
“Young, high end pitching. They are in reasonably good shape positon player-wise.”
yeah, true, but i guess the better question is what kind of prospects do you really think they’ll get? like Hughes/IPK level? one step down, maybe Horne/McCutcheon level?
Boston Dave,
Ouch!
mel:
“I love Alex’s homeruns, but sometimes we just need a productive out. That and the popup thing (on both sides of the ball). But I agree. He’s not too shabby.”
If he ever develops a two-strike swing, he’ll be perfect
But I’m not holding my breath.
“yeah, true, but i guess the better question is what kind of prospects do you really think they’ll get? like Hughes/IPK level? one step down, maybe Horne/McCutcheon level?”
The former. Maybe IPK and Horne plus a guy in the lower levels.
Just back at my desk after a few hours away…
ALIEN SHOW FROM THE ’80s…..
Alf?
“Don’t look at or listen to him if it bothers you so much.”
I watch Beckett pitch even though i cant stand him. Rooting against him of coarse.
I do see what your saying. I never thought the Spurs whined about fouls till this year. It took someone to point it out to me to finally see it. Duncan,Ginobli,Scissorhands and Parker do it all the time. As far as Kobe is concerned. No i would like him on my team because he is the best(NOT BETTER THAN JORDAN). But he would irritate me just like Sheffield and Johnson did on the Yankees.
“But it won the crowd free tacos”
Didnt know that. That makes it all good. Still classless.
I won’t be able to watch the game tonite as I’m going to the Alicia Keys concert. I will DVR it, however it’s just not the same! but I really think Joba will settle in, he’s got 2 starts under him and should have shaken any nerves he may or probably had.
Mel,
Sorry if that was harsh – I was wrong to direct that to you…. more of a general problem I have with not giving teams credit when its due.
“Your plan will only work if you can schedule their injuries.”
Very simple mel. You have either Sheets or Harden start the year off. While the other is on call waiting. Then once one gets hurt. You do the switharoo. By the time the guy pitching gets hurt. The other is back from vacation.
Elf was good. But i cant believe some dont remember V. It was a really good series. Or i was just young and didnt know any better. Like the day i bought THUNDERCATS and VOLTRON for my kids a couple years ago. Its just not as good as when i was younger. Or breakdance electric bogalu. Not good.
Boston Dave,
Awww. You’re so sweet. I’m a pretty good sport, but I’ll admit that the Celtics are Enemy #1 right now. Along with the Sox and the Rays. haha.
You guys know my thoughts on this.
I trade Cano for CC in a heartbeat if we get the window to negotiate with CC before making the deal.
If Cano goes, that leaves other gems in the minor league system intact and allows us to use them for the 1b, 2b replacements we’re going to need.
Getting Hudson or Ellis or even a low cost rental alternative like a Ray Durham just for this season (what could SF possibly ask for him?) with CC makes up for the loss of Cano who frankly at his current pace, is no loss at all.
I’m less convinced Cano is coming out of it like we all expect. I think he looks downright surly on the field and his 2 cent brain will hold him back for the rest of his career. He’s petulant and stubborn and the only way those kind of people stop being that way is to hit rock bottom. He’s well on his way there right now, but I’m not even sure he’s smart enough to dig his way back from that.
This thing with Cano is going to get ugly soon. If he doesn’t step up and get consistent, I would not at all be surprised to see the Yankees trade for a guy like Durham or someone who can play 2b and wouldn’t cost a lot in prospects. I totally can see Cano getting sent to Tampa to figure out how to play baseball again.
They are not going to let him start all season hitting .220 and offering the team nothing in the way of productive outs and speed. There will be a breaking point. Same thing for Melky.
I would not be shocked to see Gardner soon and see him get some starts.
Back to CC–we need him for this season and definitely for next.
I’m still not convinced that Cashman has the acumen to make a fair deal.
He’s only good at making highway robbery deals where we send cash and barely warm bodies for all stars.
Name one fair deal he’s made that has benefited both teams. And please don’t give me Randy Johnson. The unit didn’t pitch last year. It’s hardly been fair for AZ.
This type of deal is the kind of deal that I think exposes Cashman as a weak GM who can’t beat out the likes of Theo.
I’ve said it before, I can guarantee you the Red Sox have several 3 team scenarios set up to get CC and only have to give up Lugo.
I think Cashman gets confused and intimidated when he’s matched against a GM who throws up static like Theo. He doesn’t know what is real and what isn’t and he’s not bold enough to take control of the deal.
I hope they can get CC. If it’s Cano in the deal, I’ll pack his bags. I don’t like the guy. He’s my least favorite Yankee because of the talent wasted there. It’s his 4th season, not his 2nd. This nonsense should have been dealt with by now.
CC gets us in the post season this year. It’s a fact folks. With the kind of starting pitching we’ll be rolling out with him in the rotation, we will win at or above a .650 clip the rest of the way.
This offense will come around with Arod, Jeter, Abreu and Posada still having the best part of their seasons to come.
Get CC. Give him the 6 years. Show him the love that Cleveland won’t and let’s see what happens in October.
“People hate the Spurs because they are darn good”
As a spurs fan ill take that as a comliment and thank you. But it is so true. If the red sox sucked all the time. Would we hate them as much as we do?
Did I just hear Jerry Manuel could be the next Mets manager?
Why did Alf come up? The funniest thing about that show is that years later the dad showed up in some video smoking crack with a guy in their wifebeaters and boxers. It burned an image in my brain that I can never forget.
“If the red sox sucked all the time. Would we hate them as much as we do?”
If?
I’m still not sold on CC.
“But it is so true. If the red sox sucked all the time. Would we hate them as much as we do?”
Different kind of hatred. Now the Sox are hated as a worthy adversary. Before, it was an “ants at a picnic” type of hate. They were a nuisance but not to be taken too seriously.
“But it is so true. If the red sox sucked all the time. Would we hate them as much as we do?”
Different kind of hatred. Now the Sox are hated as a worthy adversary. Before, it was an “ants at a picnic” type of hate. They were a nuisance but not to be taken too seriously.
Sorry about the double up.
Russell, yeah, if Willie’s out then Manuel’s in.
makes sense in the fact that they wouldnt bring an outisder into the organization midseason on an interim basis.
Russell,
I think that he meant in the past. We all know that they’re the all-century team right now. (rolling eyes)
SoS,
Division rivals and hate’s a two-way street.
Did anyone read the other Yankee blog talking about David Robertson?
This guy should be called up. David Robertson
http://minors.baseball-referen.....?pid=34605
174 k’s in 137 innings
And they competed at a time when there was no wild card so it was win or go home.
mel,
I asked V this morning if he got his name from the 80′s aliens show. NO. Saw emanuel stewert in a commercial the other day. I think hes as tall as he was on the show. Just fatter.
Kennedy/Tabata/Marquez, for Sabathia.
I don’t really care to give up Cano.
This above deal is made, as a rental. If we don’t re-sign Sabathia, then we take the two Round 1 selections.
BTW i dont know how any of you guys can watch a soccer match? I watch the world cup(brazil because they score alot). But thats about it.
Rom 1 France 1. I thought hockey was a low scoring sport. They need to elimiate the off sides. It pisses me off watching players purposely let the defender pass them by so it could be called. Anyways thats my 2 cents.
Dave Roberstson appearance last night was particularly interesting not only because he was dominant as usual – 1 IP, 3K, 0BB, 0H but because its the first time he’s pitched back to back nights in AAA this year.
The yanks generally have a semi-set schedule for their minor league relievers who are top prospects. They don’t just let the minor league managers use them as they want in order to protect their arms.
Robertson has been pitching every 2-3 days in AAA. Hasn’t pitched on consecutive nights.
I think they’re getting close to calling him up. Seeing how a reliever responds to increased workload is the kind of thing that’s done when you’re readying him for a call up.
Robertson was a 17th round draft pick. He started last year in low A ball at Charleston. A year later he’s getting close to a call up.
i realize i’m in the minority i’m sure, but I love watching international soccer matches.
“He started last year in low A ball at Charleston. A year later he’s getting close to a call up.”
Not to be skeptical, but we’ve seen this story before with a couple young starters to less than stellar results.
I enjoy watching the highlights and I really liked watching that overtime kick-thingy between ManU and Chelsea. I could watch that kind of thing all day long. The drama!
I watch too, Turn Two. Saw a little of Italy today in the Euro. It would appear they are f*@ked.
CB,
Who would Robertson replace? I just cant see them letting go of farn and hawkins. Due to what is owed to them. Ohlendorf maybe?
Is Patterson ever going to get a chance?
Robertson looks like a stud
I think he looks like a player who could become a starter, but man bullpen needs him.
He is just 23, but he looks great.
Kennedy/Tabata/Marquez, for Sabathia.
I don’t really care to give up Cano.
This above deal is made, as a rental. If we don’t re-sign Sabathia, then we take the two Round 1 selections
my bad. Not my intention, to post twice.
SoS,
There’s going to come a point (timewise and after someone has proven they can take the spot) where they’ll be okay with DFA Hawkins. Farnsworth, on the other, hand is someone that Giradi is emotionally attached to (and makes more than Hawkins).
mel, agreed… the drama is fantastic. i watched the US/Argentina game on Sunday night, and that got pretty intense… looked like the US squad finally showed up to play a game, and its amazing how much of a difference Landon Donovan makes offensively.
Fredo, i havent gotten a chance to watch much Euro 2008 action yet, because of damn work and all. i’ll pay more attention once they get out of the pool play.
mel,
I do like the shoot outs. World Cup Tournament decided on 5 shots is good. All the minutes and hours of a 1-1 or 0-0 game prior isnt.
“Not to be skeptical, but we’ve seen this story before with a couple young starters to less than stellar results.”
There were two starters who started the season at A ball and made it to the majors – Kennedy and Chamberlain.
Going 1 for 2 with young pitching is pretty stellar, especially when you think about how these guys were only drafted in 2006.
If you want to throw in Huges into that mix fine – if you have 1 pitcher out of 3 who are less than 23 excel in their first season in the bigs that a good rate.
You hope for better. 2 of them have not worked out.
But for some reason the fact that Joba was only drafted in 2006 and pitched in the minors for less than one year is taken as a given in NY now. As if it wasn’t a big deal and isn’t really reason to feel that taking a chance on young pitchers was warranted.
I have no idea if Roberstson is going to pitch well in the majors. I do know that its a very good predictive sign for future success when guys move through and dominate minor leaguers at every level the way Kennedy, Hughes and Robertson have.
If nothing else it gives you valuable trading chips.
Without guys like Kennedy, Robertson, etc. you have no chance to even be in the discussion to get a guy like Sabathia.
It’s a matter of expectations.
mel,
Hopefully they can “QUANTRILL” both Farns and Hawk sooner rather than later.
“This type of deal is the kind of deal that I think exposes Cashman as a weak GM who can’t beat out the likes of Theo.”
theo seems pretty happy that cashman is the yankee gm. the rest of red sox nation too.
“i watched the US/Argentina game on Sunday night”
US has a mens soccer team? I thought we only had the womens.
I think Donavon went to school at my high school teams rivals. Redlands.
“If you want to throw in Huges into that mix fine – if you have 1 pitcher out of 3 who are less than 23 excel in their first season in the bigs that a good rate.
You hope for better. 2 of them have not worked out.”
Jury’s still out on all these guys, of course. However, I look at Robertson and see numbers similar to what Edwar posted (not as good, actually) and then see Edwar in the majors (better in ’08 than ’07 but still not good in high leverage spots) and it makes me wonder.
“If he ever develops a two-strike swing, he’ll be perfect But I’m not holding my breath.”
he has one .
he calls it his” three strike swing”.
I would love to hear if old Rog ends up meeting some of the guys
“Who would Robertson replace?”
I do think they are trying to trade Hawkins. As bad as he’s been relief pitching is awful everywhere.
Look at the problem the sox are having with their pen.
Hawkins is on a 1 year deal. I’d guess there’s an NL team that might be interested.
Otherwise I could see them sending down Ohelndorf.
This is just speculation. Given how good Robertson has been in AAA and that his health is ok I think they are more thinking about when to bring him up this year rather than if.
“and then see Edwar in the majors (better in ‘08 than ‘07 but still not good in high leverage spots) and it makes me wonder.’
If you’re expecting him to step in and be a shut down 8th inning guy like Joba was those are enormous expectations.
Rookie pitchers rarely do that.
I’m more hoping that Robertson will be better than Hawkins is this year.
Again, look at Boston’s bull pen this year. It’s not easy at all to get bull pen arms and most teams would love to have a guy like Robertson in their system.
This is mostly about probability and patience. They’ve amassed a lot of arms. Don’t know if any one specific arm will come through but I do think that someone out of their pool of potential pitchers will help the big league team in the pen this year.
Could be Robertson, Melancon, Patterson, Cox, even Hughes perhaps. One of them will help.
But they are all rookies. Again, where would the bull pen be right now without all of the first year pitchers who have helped them? Albaladejo, Veras, Ramirez, etc.
Its not easy even finding slightly above average bull pen arms. Veras and Ramirez may not be great but they’ve pitched better than the average reliever and better than most of the free agent relievers available this off season at a fraction the price.
For most of these first year relievers I’m hoping for better than Aron Heilman more than I am hoping for Jeff Nelson 1998.
im as frustrated about farnsworth as anybody, but if anybody is waiting for him to be dfa’s, i hope you’re not holding your breath. hes not going to be dfa’s period. his 4.50 era is bad but not horrible, his 1.50 whip is the same. if they dfa him they have to pay him and there will be 15 teams lined up to grab him.
it is fair to ask whether he belongs in the 7th or 8th innings when the game is close, he may end up in the back end of the bullpen, but he will not be dfa’d.
cb,
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