Today in The Journal News
-
- June
- 14
Joba Chamberlain has completed his transition. His effort last night helped the Yankees beat the Astros.
Shelley Duncan never got on track and was optioned down. This notebook also has updates on Roger Clemens (well, sort of), Hideki Matsui and a statement from George Steinbrenner.
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on Saturday, June 14th, 2008 at 3:05 am by Peter Abraham.
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Peter Abraham
for all the magic he has conjured up this season, can mussina do the unthinkable and… get the yankees to three games over .500? wait and see
Hero yesterday, goat today- see you next time Shelley. To quote Cool Hand Luke, SHelley lovers, “Where are you now?”
For all of you who complain about the Yankee front office not improving the team, please compare the Yankee roster moves to those of the Seattle Mariners. If John McLaren were managing the Yankees, Shelley would be batting third.
Dog: aaaaaaaaaaaaand good afternoon everybody, how are you todee? It’s the 16th of June here on a Mondee afternoon here in New York City. Take it away Mikey.
Mike: Good aftahnoon Dog. Busy sports weekend. You had Tigah and Phil being upset at The Open, you had Tim Russert dropping dead, Willie getting canned after a Mets sweep of the Rangahs. We’ll get to that in the 6 o’clock hour because the story of the day is Jobber.
Dog: I hate to do it but we have to give JOB-AH credit. We still think he belongs in the bullpen but he gave a nice performance. Had the fastball and breaking stuff going and he looked loosey goosey out on the hill.
Mike: Dog, the Yanks are still making a big mistake here but it looks like it might turn out well. Can’t blame us though for wanting him to set up the Great Mariano because EVERYONE wanted him in the bullpen
Dog: Good job outta you there Mike. Every Yankee fan wanted him in the pen. Whether it be you, Mike from Montclair, Tony from Santa Fe, Johnny from the New Caanan Deli, everyone wanted him in the pen. JOB-AH is getting a little tough to take though Mike. Can he at least win one game as a starter before we anoint him as the new Timmy Linecum? JOB-AH is not a pimple on the fanny of Timmy, was Timmy giving up bombs to Manhattan College in the NCAA Tourney? Say something funny Mike.
Mike: Jobber in the rotation leaves a gaping hole in the pen. Are Veras and Edwar the answer? No. The Yankees need to go out and get an ahm. Whether it be a Fuentes or a Bell they need an ahm. I was talking to my people and they said that Bronson Arroyo could be had for Phil Use, Melky Cabera, and some kid named Austin Washington. Get it done, I love Bronson Arroyo. He’s a gamah along with Brandon Inge.
Dog: Mike we have the numbers for the JOB-AH event
Mike: 2.4 national 6.3 New York
Dog: Close. 2.0 national 5.5 New York. Johnsonville Italian Sausage has the flash.
Funny stuff Emb – although I could have done w/o the Russert crack –
The Bronson Arroyo fixation is just ridiculous. I guess it could be worse, it could be Livan Hernandez.
I’m pretty sure Bronson Arroyo is a girl.
Can the Yankees build on this 2 game winning streak ?
Tune in today for another thrilling episode of ” As The Runs Lack “
I like Shelly, but like so many Yankee “young prospects” he has been in the minor leagues for 7 years? So that tells me he is a minor leaguer.
in all fairness, duncan is the oldest possible prospect in the organization
sorry, except for patterson i guess (and however old are the tree rings on aceves)
From the previous post, man, as if a 4 seam fastball, curve ball, changeup, slider repertoire weren’t enough, he’s also learning a Wang style power sinker? Awesome. I mean, that’s EXACTLY the type of pitch he’s going to need if he’s going to be economical with his pitches (1-2 pitch groundouts instead of 8 pitch strikeout (strike looking, foul, foul, ball, foul, ball, foul, ball, strike swinging) type at-bats.
that stuff about Clemens is tooo funny.
LOL!
Emobacca
You forgot to add that none of the kids have recorded a win.
Mets picked up Trot Nixon, just in time for the Mets-Yankees games coming up
mike ashmore talked to a scout about melancon and aceves, very interesting take:
http://thunderbaseball.wordpress.com/
forgot to add good job!! Add about the kids not winning and it is perfect.
Say Job ha still hasn’t gotten a win.
wonder if the nixon pickup means they are giving up on alou. moises can still hit but cant get off the d.l. (came off monday, went back on yesterday) i suspect they got nixon to take his place.
Now thinking about it, I think CMW deserves more credit and is more of an ace for one reason. He is really economical like the last game he was at 80 pitches through seven. I remember he threw a CG this year and only through like 92 pitches. Although he doesn’t strike that many out, it is that reason he can pitch deep into games. Someone who strikes a lot of people out end up not being able to get through seven innings. Webb, a great ace, goes really deep too because of that. Halladay strikes some out but he gets a lot of groundballs and that is why he pitches a CG like every time. Interesting thought
Jennifer, it doesn’t matter if they recorded a win. At least for Joba, Yanks won two of his three starts, (not the first one where he pitched two innings) and he kept the Yankees right there in teh game. He cant get wins if all the Yanks can score when he is pitching is one freaking run
Joba had a very encouraging start last night. Clearly another step forward. He is still a young pitcher and a work in progress but he threw a very impressive game last night.
He knew he was on a pitch limit, knew that limit had been an advantage to the opposition in his prior 2 starts, and made an adjustment.
Making adjustments is what makes pitcher successful. Not always going to have your best stuff. Not always going to have every pitch working.
Joba has been experimenting with that two seam fastball since they started to transition him to the bull pen. If you go back to his game logs from those transition outings he started throwing a few fastballs that were 91-93 mph. Those were most likely two seamers as he sits 95-99 on the four seamer he’s been throwing since coming up.
But last night was the first night he used the pitch extensively. He was clearly trying to induce more ground balls to go deeper into the game rather than trying to strike guys outs. It’s going to be another terrific weapon. He learned the change up he throws now only last year at the beginning of the season and it got much better quickly. His two seamer will also get better. That’s the sign of a smart pitcher going to Wang to learn that pitch in order to get quicker innings.
The rotation was the biggest question going into this season. Right now it look pretty good – absolutely good enough to make the post season if the offense lived up to reasonable expectations.
If I were The Mets, I would give up on Moises Alou as well…
He’s probably batting .650, but the only problem is that he has like 12 at-bats.
The Mets can be sure that Trot Nixon will play through the dings and bruises, which Alou wont… having him and Church in the clubhouse also adds some grit to what seems on the surface to be a very soft team.
Good Morning.
Does anyone know a site or publication that lists player/Agent?
Any help is aprreciated.
Have a good weekend.
-dennis
“appreciated”
27 this year
I know that, I was referring to the most mocking mike and the mad dog.
CB
If Wang and Petite can pitch reliably enough as pseudo- #1,#2s, then I agree the rotation is more than decent enough to make the post season.
It’s clear HOU needs pitching, and the Yankees have it in abundance in the MiL, do you see any potential trade matches?
CB,
Is it just me, or does Joba not have as much command with his slider as he did last year? Some people say that he doesnt get swing-and-misses with it anymore because hitters know that it wont fall for a strike….but last year it was hardly ever a strike, but it still looked so tantalizing to hitters and they swung nonetheless. Did something change with his slider this year. There is noticeable improvement with the curve with each start… I dunno why I’m fixated on the slider, I think I just really like it as an outpitch.
Great game last night, real pitcher’s duel that Yanks won.
1. Can we get beyond who’s right and who’s wrong, about Joba as well as other things? A Yankee pitcher had a great game last night, let’s celebrate that.
He pitched a real good game, using multiple pitches and even changing his style a bit to go deeper into the game. Going to Wang to improve himself speaks to his maturity, also. That analogy to Roy Halladay that 27 made (see above) is right on.
2. Ty Wigginton seems to be smarter than Mark Teahen.
3. Mets should look to trade Moises Alou to an AL team that can use him as a DH.
4. I read Mike Ashmore’s Trenton blog, and he quotes a scout thinking that Mark Melancon doesn’t project as a closer because of his arm motion, which he thinks might lead to a lack of command. Not being a baseball professional, I wonder if Francisco Rodriguez (K-Rod) and his mechanics made him not project as a big-time closer, also.
Mets should trade Moises to a team that needs help with their DL.
Alou intrigues me. The Mets are paying him alot of money, he’s old and he can’t stay healthy but he can hit.
Salary aside, he’d be a perfect “Ruben Sierra type” of player.
Dennis
Cots Baseball Contracts (Pete has the link above) might help.
Did anyone hear about the idea MLB has for replay in games?
Umpires are going to have to call New York where someone will review the call. I hope they don’t get 2 calls at once. I’m pretty sure MLB is run by Vogons. (Sorry if no one gets that)
Pat.
I just hit the link. That is what I needed. Thank you.
-dennis
go to google type cotts mlb contracts. you can look up by team and player, it lists the agent there.
Andy – nice Vogon liner.
Now that Gonzales is back on the Yanks’ roster, can we PLEASE sit swing-at-the-first-pitch Cano for a couple days and let the kid play second. I still think Cano will snap out of it eventually, but maybe a few days off will help him mentally. He’s got to realize that he can’t get to .300 in one at bat. Give him a couple days off.
“Is it just me, or does Joba not have as much command with his slider as he did last year?”
Zach,
This is an issue that is getting more attention and will continue to do so. I’d guess it will become yet another annoying topic on sports radio and in the paper.
Just forget it. Put it away. It’s not going to be a long term issue. It’s part of the maturation process for a young pitcher.
There are a couple of reasons why joba’s slider command seems off compared to when he first came up.
The main thing is that when he went to the pen he changed the way he pitched to adjust to that role. Part of that transition was to change the way he threw his slider – he started throwing it as an extreme strike out pitch. Part of what you want in a dominant set up man is to miss bats on every single pitch you throw. Not only are you trying to prevent runs, you’re trying to prevent contact.
The slider we’ve seen from his is a product of that role. He learned to throw his major league slider to never wind up as a strike – he learned to make it an unhittable pitch.
Last year hitters couldn’t pick it up because he throws his slider as hard as many pitchers throw their fastball and the spin is tight. But major league hitters are always going to make adjustments. That’s why they are in the majors – they’re good enough to figure things out.
In turn Joba needs to make an adjustment back. And he is and will even more. This is part of why he really needed to get out of the pen. The primary adjustment he’ll make is to use his entire repertoire. It’s much easier for a hitter to pick up and lay off the slider when he’s only thinking Joba’s going to throw one of two pitches – fastball vs. slider. Much, much more difficult task to lay off the slider if you’re thinking he might throw 5 potential pitches.
Here’s an example of how I’d guess this will evolve. His slider sits 86-88. Now his 4 seam fastball sits 95-98. Both are very hard pitches but there’s a 10 mph difference in the pitches. That’s part of how the hitters pick up that slider – difference in velocity. Now he’s mixing in a two seamer that sits 91-94. Much harder to differentiate that two seamer from the slider based on velocity. Now the hitters have another pitch to think about that’s around that velocity. Much harder task for them now. Now all they have is spin to pick up.
The other adjustment joba needs to make is mental – and we saw some of that last night. That’s why his outing last night was so encouraging. In the pen he was trying to strike every hitter out. He doesn’t need to and can’t do that as a starter. Part of what he’ll start doing is to throw the slider differently – so that it finishes in the zone. When he’s mixing 5 pitches together the slider will be almost as devastating as it was when it was winding up in th dirt.
But that’s going to take time. He’s 22.
This is just my guess, but I think over time we are going to see the slider less and less. He’s going to use that wonderful curveball more. As a starter I think that’s going to be a pitch nearly as effective as the slider but effective in a different sort of way. His 4 seam fastball and curve have almost a 20mph difference in velocity – that’ just devastating. The curve will allow him to incorporate more of a change of speed look to his innings. As a reliever he can throw everything hard – fastball, slider. But going through the line up 3 times he needs to give the hitters something different to look at / think about – that’s changing speed so that not everything is hard. It will also probably put less stress on his arm than the slider.
He’s going to wind up using the slider as his strikeout pitch – hitters won’t see it as often and won’t be able to pick it up as easily.
He had terrific control as a starter in the minors. He’s not going to keep walking guys at high rates. His slider will be absolutely fine.
I felt this way at the beginning of the season and still do now – Joba may have the best stuff in all of baseball because the throws 4 (now 5) quality pitches with command and sits 95-98. That’s just past devastating.
Interesting item on Olney’s blog about a scout’s take on Joba’s arrow-straight fastball. He says a scout told him this in an e-mail:
“He has a good arm, but it is straight and the hitter picks up the ball. Slider is decent, but doesn’t control it well enough, yet. I think he would be a lot more valuable as set-up or eventually a closer. If he is throwing 180 innings a year, his velocity will come down much more quickly.”
I still think he’s more valuable as a starter, but watching him 80 pitches at a time now, you do tend to notice that his fastball doesn’t have a lot of movement to it. However, you’d have to say that his slider is a lot more than “decent”. He’s got one of the best sliders in the game. So don’t take the scout’s take as gospel. Just food for thought.
“Is it just me, or does Joba not have as much command with his slider as he did last year?â€
Zach,
Yes.
A few days back, CB and some others were claiming that Girardi is no different from Torre and he is too loyal to the veterans and doing nothing different. I said give him time.
Alright let us see what happened yesterday. Girardi removed Posada in a double switch and put Molina in for defense. He did not pander to Posada and leave him there. Not only that, he stated to media exactly why he did it. it worked out well as MOlina threw out the runner stealing 2B.
Bottomline is Girardi is much different from Torre, he already showed that with the use of the bullpen. Torre would have never given 8th innning to Veras, well Veras would not be on the big club with Torre after he gave those walks in one of the games. Also, yesterday Torre would have burned out Mo, insted of sticking with Veras and then Kyle (I know many hate him!).
Unfortunately, team did not have good record and it curtailed Girardi’s ability to take some calculated risks. Hopefully, the team will play well and win in these NL parks and give Girardi some breathing room to be himself as a manager.
Andy – good HHGTG reference.
and..it looks like you’re right
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3443088&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
At first blush it seems crazy. Why not just do it how football does it? Why outsource? The ostensible reason for not doing it earlier was to prevent excessive delays. This way seems like it is almost designed to do just that.
“In the event a crew chief decides to use instant replay, the crew chief would use a dedicated communications link that will be available in each ball park to contact the replay official. The replay official will tell the crew chief what the replay official sees on the video replay or replays. The replay official will only report what he sees on the replay video or videos, and will not offer any advice or recommendation as to what the call should be. Based on all the information available to the crew chief (including what the crew saw in real time, and what the replay official sees on video), the crew chief will decide whether there is “clear and convincing evidence” that the original call by the crew is correct or incorrect. The original call would be reversed only if the crew chief felt there was a “clear error” on the original call.
The effect of any overturned call (for example, the placement of runners and the batter) would be governed by all current rules, any new rules specifically developed in connection with instant replay, and the crew chief’s judgment.
There would be no limit on the number of times that a crew chief could use instant replay in a game, but MLB believes that instant replay would be used only about 10 times per season.”
“and..it looks like you’re right”
1st time for everything.
“Now that Gonzales is back on the Yanks’ roster, can we PLEASE sit swing-at-the-first-pitch Cano for a couple days and let the kid play second.”
He drew a five pitch walk in the first inning and also had a 7 or 8 pitch at bat in the 6th inning I believe. In none of those at bats did he swing at the first pitch.
Seriously though his defense is so good that I would rather let him just play through whatever struggles he has. He made a couple of plays last night that most second baseman can only dream about.
Not to add another stick to this beat-a-dead-horse contest, but here’s an article for Brandon:
Erick Threets jarred by lack of interest
Excerpt:
“When the San Francisco Giants designated Threets for assignment earlier this month, the hard-throwing left-hander just assumed another major league team would scoop him up.
Instead, Threets listened in stunned silence Wednesday morning as Giants director of player personnel Bobby Evans told him he had cleared waivers and was being reassigned to Triple-A Fresno.
“When I hung up the phone, the first thought through my mind was, ‘Are you kidding me?’ ” said Threets, the shock still resonant in his voice Thursday afternoon. “To have 29 other organizations pass on me, I didn’t think it was possible. It completely blows my mind.”"
“Thank God I have Brandon on my side…” thought Threets.
Just kidding Brandon. Just a little humor on that last sentence.
Cano made that incredible play on Wigginton, slow chopper barehanded short hop and fired the ball to Giambi just a step before Wigginton hit the bag. Sick play!
Seriously, I do think the Yanks need to hire a Bowa type of coach just to sit on Cano’s back. It does seem like he needs that kind of in-your-face type of coach to get/keep him on his toes.
Kissbeavis,
That scout is an idiot who has probably never seen Joba throw in the minors. If his fastball is so straight why do hitters have such a hard time hitting the ball hard off him?
As an aside, how nasty is Jose Veras’ curveball? The pitch he threw to get the final out in the 8th, I think is one of the nastiest pitches I’ve ever seen in my life. That thing is unhittable.
I love when reporters quote “scouts”.
I talked to a scout at the Daytona Cubs game and he told me, “I told Peter Gammons the other day that Craig Hansen was the best set-up man in baseball, and he actually said it on TV”.
The scout also told me, “Mark my words, but to me the Sun only has five or six years left before it burns out”
He did make some great plays in the field, no question. But a couple of prolonged ABs (for a change) doesn’t mean he’s suddenly become selective. And, the AB when he shattered his bat was a first-pitch swing. It’s almost the middle of June and he’s hitting below .220 with 13 BBs. He’s developed a lot of bad habits. He needs someone to force him to rethink his approach at the plate. Just b/c he can get his bat on just about any pitch doesn’t mean he can drive those pitches. He’s played in 67 of their 68 games this year. A day off or two might do him some good.
Kissbeavis,
I’m not saying he’s suddenly selective. I’m just saying he had a couple of productive at-bats last night. You have to crawl before you walk. Maybe last night was the start of something.
I didn’t see his at-bat where he broke his bat, but did he swing at a ball that wasn’t in the strike zone?
He does have bad habits, but I would still rather see him in their on defense than anybody else. I do have a feeling that A-Gon will get the start today at second base however.
“If his fastball is so straight why do hitters have such a hard time hitting the ball hard off him?”
I’d assume b/c he throws it 98 mph and, to his credit, he never throws it down the middle.
I take everything unnamed “scouts” say with a grain of salt b/c who knows what their motives are. But he doesn’t seem to have the kind of movement you see on Beckett’s ball (and don’t we all want him to be a starter b/c we want him to be the next Beckett? … without all the HRs and blisters)
raymagnetic,
Maybe he took more pitches b/c he was hitting out of the two hole …. which is maybe why Girardi put him there.
Hopefully, he’ll snap out of it soon. When he’s on his game, he’s a gap-hitting machine and he makes a big difference in their lineup. We need to see that guy soon.
raymagnetic did you lose your registered trademark?
Emobacca – You watch/listen to way too much Mike and Chris – which is my problem as well.