The Sunday Links
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- June
- 15
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Mike Mussina did it again as the Yankees beat the Astros 8-4. The Moose is having a year nobody expected, even himself.
Slumping Robinson Cano had a big hit off the bench. This notebook also has news on Johnny Damon’s new bats, Joe Girardi’s opinion on instant replay and A-Rod matching a legend.
In the Sunday Baseball Beat, the focus is on how drug testing is changing baseball.
Willie Randolph is trying to keep cool under fire as the Mets play two today. Brian Heyman has that story.
Trot Nixon arrived at Shea Stadium yesterday. Brian also has that story.
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on Sunday, June 15th, 2008 at 2:45 am by Peter Abraham.
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Chad Jennings
Sam Borden
The baseball beat on the changes in baseball as a result of the new drugs policy is a good article, Pete.
A wonderful report! It is very encouraging.
“Like anybody else who is very good at what they do for a living, Kevin is a passionate guy.”
why do i think of bob newhart when i listen to long.
i don’t hear passion there. actually if i was a hitter listening to him, i think i’d fall asleep.
as far as hitting mechanics, i listened three times. he mentioned that robby puts the ball in play, says needs to be more explosive, says something hard to hear about hip movement at the beginning of the audio, talked to mattingly who said the contract may be a problem. long also said cano could use a day or two off. long also said he looks at the lower body when looking for reasons why a hitter isn’t driving the ball.
i didn’t hear much about mechanics,and what he did say was hitting 101, very basic. i heard a very quiet guy say pretty much what an interested fan might say.
i didn’t hear anything that would make me want to take a hitting lesson from long .
just calling like i heard it.
“He’s throwing his fastball a lot more,” Rodriguez said. “He’s always been a straight fastball guy, cut away from the righties and in to lefties. Now he’s actually moving the ball away from lefties and into righties. That’s been a big difference. “- lohud
to his credit, mussina seems to be a different pitcher ever since he was sent to the bullpen last august. i think most successful players are self contained in the sense they have an overwhelming desire to succeed that separated them from other players that just had talent.
when a player like mussina gets really bad like he was last year, it’s more between him and himself if he’s going to snap out of it. being demoted to the bullpen was the wake up call that it was time for mussina to either crank it back up and find a way to get outs, or it was time to quit.
mussina got ticked off and he’s reinvented himself. again, to his credit , he made the decision to dig down and find a way.
any good player has that drive to excel or they wouldn’t have gotten so good in the first place. benching, losing playing time, being sent to the bullpen , or being sent down to the minors are all tactics a good manager can use to get players to have that meeting with themselves like mussina had. ultimately it’s up to the player.
now it’s time for cano to be given that incentive to have a meeting with himself.
happy father’s day to all the father’s out there.
when i call my father today at least half our conversation will be about the yankees.
baseball and the yankees has always been a way to talk even when my hair was down my back in the 60’s. no matter the differences, baseball and the yankees have always been a common link.
i always pay attention when he sees a new yankee for the first time. he’s watched them since the mid 30’s and has an amazing ability see who is going to be a real “yankee” at first glance.
one big difference of opinion about the yankees was mussina. two year ago, i hated watching him pitch because of his refusal to pitch up and in. my father said he was just going through a bad time and wasn’t as bad as i thought he was.
just goes to show that watching the yankees since the 30’s trumps watching the yankees since the fifties.
Mike Mussina’s early-season success has some fans in New York and Baltimore lobbying for his Hall of Fame credentials. To which I say: Get real.
Mussina does hold the record for most career wins by a pitcher who has never won 20 games in a season (260 and counting). But that’s the point – he’s never won 20. He’s won 19 twice. He’s come within an out of a no-hitter and within an inning of a World Series championship. But he’s never done anything. He’s “Mr. Almost.†My prediction is that he will almost get into Cooperstown, which is closer than he deserves.
It’s tough to make the Hall as a starting pitcher. No starter who began his career after 1967 had yet been enshrined, with the exception of Dennis Eckersley, who did pitch a no-hitter, did win 20 games, and did play for a championship team – and is primarily remembered as a reliever. Great pitchers like Bert Blyleven, Tommy John and Luis Tiant are still on the outside looking in.
At this writing, Mussina has a career record of 260-148, with a 3.70 ERA. That’s a better winning percentage than Jack Morris (254-186, 3.90), but who would you rather have pitch a big game? Morris won 20 games three separate times, and was the ace for the World Champion Tigers (1984) and Twins (1991). He pitched a ten-inning shutout in the seventh game of the ’91 Series.
Tiant’s record was just 229-172, but he posted single-season ERAs under 2.00 in two different seasons, won 20 or more games four times, and pitched heroically in an epic (1975) World Series. Mussina couldn’t hold his cigar.
The only way Mussina gets into the Hall of Fame is if he wins 20 this year and then pitches a no-hitter in the World Series. Not going to happen.
Happy Father’s Day to you and yours!
Did Trot Nixon trot into Shea or did he walk or sprint in ???
“The only way Mussina gets into the Hall of Fame is if he wins 20 this year and then pitches a no-hitter in the World Series”
what if he wins 6 -7 more this year for 267 at the end of 2008, and plays three more years with his new approach and wins 12,11, and 10 games.
that’d be 300 wins and that’s a hard number to ignore.
with the weakened hitting in the league maybe someone like mussina benefits as much as anyone with hitters less dangerous. maybe he pitches 3-4 more years.
Kevin Kernan:
“Last June, I wrote about another young pitcher in the Yankees New York Yankees system who was better than Phil Hughes Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, even though those two pitchers were getting all the pub. His name was Joba Chamberlain.”
So now Kernan is taking credit for discovering JOBA?
LMAO.
Hey Pete wanna fix that link on the Trot Nixon article?
Wow, Moose is #40 all time in wins. And of the 39 guys ahead of him, just 7 have a better winning percentage.
Sure, Moose has plaid for the Yanks, but Baltimore helps even that out.
The 7 better than Moose in both wins and winning %?
Jim Palmer
Randy Johnson
Lefty Grove
J Clarkson
Roger Clemens
Christy Mathewson
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Not too bad!
plaid = played
Also: if Moose eventually wins 14 more games (he projects to 14 more wins this year alone), he’ll be #32 all time, passing Bob Feller, Jim Palmer, Red Ruffing…
Heady stuff for a “borderline” HOFer.
Randy 1 – I agree with you: Mussina could well keep this up for 2 or 3 more years, and if/when that gets him over 300 wins, he’s in. The voters just LOVE longevity. Career achievements, in my opinion, are overvalued in comparison with good careers supplemented by signature moments/seasons.
And I’m ambivalent on the “dominant player of his era” arguments (e.g. The Jime Rice types).
I’m not saying that the Don Larsen’s of the world should be in, but I don’t have a lot of trouble with the inclusion of Bill Mazeroski (good player, memorable moment).
If Mussina gets 300, he’s in, and I think he’ll get 300.
P.S. Do you think the Yankees will re-sign him? It’ll cost them more than his current contract, but where’s the safety net for the Young Pitcher Plan (which is presently in some disarray)?
I’m reading “Living on the Black,” and I’m about 1/3 of the way through (in one sitting, by the way – it’s a great read!), and while I’ve always been a fan of Mike Mussina, this book has made me root for him even more.
If Mussina keeps this up, I agree with Randy l that there’s not reason not to think he could pitch another couple of seasons and reach his 300 wins. I also think that if he keeps this up, it would behoove the Yankees to re-sign him, if Moose is desirous of continuing his career. He’s a talented pitcher who could be the #4 or #5 guy, a veteran in a young rotation, and he’s a good mentor as well. I think if he wants it, he could be a good pitching coach in the future.
Happy Father’s Day to all you dads out there! Enjoy your day.
Zippy, I like Bill James distinction between “peak value” and “career value.”
Mussina is an all time great Career Value guy, but yes, admittedly, doesn’t even get on the charts for Peak Value.
“One Met player, in fact, went as far as to tell a friend in another organization that Randolph, pitching coach Rick Peterson and hitting coach Howard Johnson will be fired tomorrow, according to an industry source.”
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06.....115566.htm
I’m sorry, but this is ridiculous. Make a decision now.
Re: Mussina to the HOF – I think he’s borderline, but if he can be half-way successful for a few more years, he might get in.
Come on, comparing 1990s ERAs from the AL East to ERAs from the early, mid 70s? Get real.
His ERA+ is lower than I thought it’d be (check out Pedro’s!!!): http://www.baseball-reference......reer.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference......ason.shtml
Mussina’s only on there twice.
What’s that type combination of water and a—– the trainer was spraying the players with?
I am looking for the blank substance for 1000 dollars.
jk about the money part…
Mussina is borderline HOF, but can be helped by two factors. First, if he sticks around and piles up more wins.
Second, if the baseball voters start giving extra points to pitchers who were successful in the steriod era, and especially against AL East competition. We’ll see.
Right now, enjoy the ride.
Hapy Father’s Day to all the Dads out there!
Right now Moose is borderline.
If he can get 20 wins this year (don’t laugh, he’s got 10 before the halfway point), I think he’s got a shot.
300 is pushing it. it’s possible, but he’d have to stay healthy an continue pitching like this, and there’s no guarantee the Yankees are going to sign him.
“Do you think the Yankees will re-sign him? It’ll cost them more than his current contract, but where’s the safety net for the Young Pitcher Plan (which is presently in some disarray)?”
Mussina made his money in the game.
Now he will worry about which team gives him better chance to win games to reach his goal of HOF.
So, I believe that if a good contending team, including Yankess, offer him a reasonable deal he will take it. He will not try to break the bank.
Also, for next year, Yanks should keep Mussina, not Andy.
It is funny how every one laughed at hank when he made commnets about Moose. The turnaround comes after that and Moose is doing more or less what Hank suggested he should do.
On the broadcast yesterday, they were talking about Biggio, and how he’s a Hall of Famer. Isn’t Biggio basically the hitting equivalent of Mussina? Biggio never won an MVP, never led his league in BA, was never higher than fourth in the MVP voting. In this era, 300 wins is a much greater accomplishment than 3000 hits. Even if Mussina finishes with 280-285, he’ll be the last to reach that mark for a very long time. When he’s done, he’ll be in the top 20 (maybe top 15) all time in Ks. The only people ahead of him on that list who aren’t no-doubt first ballot hall of famers will be Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling. Also, he would have won 20 games in 1995 and probably in 1994 as well if they werent strike-shortened seasons. If Biggio is a HOFer then Mussina certainly is.
Wow, 9 appearances each on that list for Maddux and Clemens, 6 for Pedro. Imagine having that many seasons ranking among the best of all time? Wow.
Good analogy, AJ.
Moose has 5 all star appearances (maybe 6th this year) and 8 top-6 Cy Young placements.
Biggio has 7 all star appearances, and 2 top-6 MVP placements (+ 3 more top-16 MVP placements).
IMO, AS appearances or awards votes are indicative of being an elite player that year — way above just “good” that year.
“So, I believe that if a good contending team, including Yankess, offer him a reasonable deal he will take it. He will not try to break the bank.”
I agree. Playing for a good team with a good bullpen and offense is tantamount to Mussina now more than ever, and he’s well aware he’s going to be 40 years old and won’t hold out for money no matter how good a season he has. He’s probably signable for $8-12 million to the right bidder for one year with options based on GS and IP for the following two years. He’s comfortable with the Yankees and will give them a hometown discount if they want him back (since Pavano will be off the books in 2009, he won’t have to be insulted at being paid less than CP). I’m sure Queens and Philly will look like awfully tempting destinations as well.
Moose is pitching for his legacy now. If he continues to pitch well in the twilight years when writers are paying attention to his HOF credentials he will get a lot of them on his side. Many in the press seem to be rooting for him this season because his success after he was dumped from the rotation last year makes for a good story to write about. Two or three more years at consistent double digit win Mike Mussina level pitching, and he’ll have 300 wins and 3000 Ks.
It’s true he’s never had a “moment” for the record books, but he’s been as adept as anybody in the game at getting outs and winning ever since he was a 22 year old rookie making his debut, all through his prime years, and now at 39 years of age. Guys like Glavine and Maddux haven’t pitched no hitters, their post season records and ERAS are a wash with Mussina, and he’d have as many rings as them if Mariano hadn’t blown the game in 2001 Game 7, so it’s ridiculous to use those specific criteria against Moose. The 20 win thing is the toughest one since no HOF starters are in without it, so I’m really hoping he gets it this year. Plus, on the side of irony, he would pass Jamie Moyer as the oldest first-time twenty game winner.